#563: Sarah Silverman — The Joy of Being Alone, Becoming Your Own Best Friend, Insights from Therapy, and More

Sarah Silverman — The Joy of Being Alone, Becoming Your Own Best Friend, Insights from Therapy, and More | Brought to you by Helium 10 https://helium10.com/tim all-in-one software suite to sell on Amazon, Dry Farm Wines http://dryfarmwines.com/tim natural wines designed for fewer hangovers, and Athletic Greens http://athleticgreens.com/tim all-in-one nutritional supplement. More on all three below. Sarah Silverman (@SarahKSilverman https://twitter.com/SarahKSilverman/) is a two-time-Emmy Award-winning comedian, actress, writer, and producer. She currently hosts The Sarah Silverman Podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-sarah-silverman-podcast/id1533130572 and stars in the HBO Max animated series Santa Inc. https://www.hbomax.com/series/urn:hbo:series:GYYLOKAZqKcLDwgEAAAC8, opposite Seth Rogen https://tim.blog/2015/09/29/seth-rogen-and-evan-goldberg/. She will next be seen opposite Jennifer Lopez and Owen Wilson in the feature film Marry Me https://www.imdb.com/video/vi1156104985. Other upcoming projects include TBS’s Stupid Pet Tricks https://variety.com/2021/tv/news/sarah-silverman-tbs-stupid-pet-tricks-david-letterman-1235029708/, an expansion of the famous David Letterman late-night segment, and the indie psychological thriller Viral https://www.imdb.com/title/tt14574136/reference, starring alongside Blair Underwood. Her first book, a memoir called The Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee https://www.amazon.com/Bedwetter-Stories-Courage-Redemption-Pee-ebook/dp/B003F1WMAW/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, which went on to become a New York Times bestseller, is currently being adapted into a musical https://atlantictheater.org/production/the-bedwetter/ with the Atlantic Theater Company to premiere in April 2022. Silverman served as creator, executive producer, and host of the Emmy-nominated series I Love You, America https://www.hulu.com/series/i-love-you-america-with-sarah-silverman-1501fdad-75d2-4748-80ae-e63d95ff44f6, which streamed weekly on Hulu and saw her connecting with people through honesty and humor. On stage, she continues to be recognized as a force in stand-up comedy. Her latest stand-up special, A Speck of Dust https://www.netflix.com/title/80133554, debuted on Netflix in May 2017 and culminated in two Emmy Award nominations and a Grammy Award nomination. Her additional film and television work includes Battle of the Sexes https://www.amazon.com/Battle-Sexes-Emma-Stone/dp/B076BNMJ7V/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, I Smile Back https://www.amazon.com/I-Smile-Back-Sarah-Silverman/dp/B017L2P98C/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, Wreck-It Ralph https://www.amazon.com/Wreck-Ralph-John-C-Reilly/dp/B00B2DSK06/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, Wreck-It Ralph 2: Ralph Breaks The Internet https://www.amazon.com/Ralph-Breaks-Internet-John-Reilly/dp/B07KPR1CLJ/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, Masters of Sex https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B00U5UNQG0/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20, and Bob’s Burgers https://www.amazon.com/gp/video/detail/B004I0C0QK/?tag=offsitoftimfe-20. Please enjoy! This episode is brought to you by Helium 10 https://helium10.com/tim! Helium 10 https://helium10.com/tim is an all-in-one software suite designed to help entrepreneurs launch, manage, and scale a profitable e-commerce business on Amazon and Walmart.com. Whether you are an entrepreneur who wants to start a business on your own terms or you want to scale your existing e-commerce operations, Helium 10 https://helium10.com/tim is here to help. Join more than 1 million Helium 10 users worldwide by signing up for a free account at Helium10.com/Tim http://helium10.com/tim! * This episode is also brought to you by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim. I get asked all the time, “If you could only use one supplement, what would it be?” My answer is usually AG1 https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim by Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim, my all-in-one nutritional insurance. I recommended it in The 4-Hour Body in 2010 and did not get paid to do so. I do my best with nutrient-dense meals, of course, but AG https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim further covers my bases with vitamins, minerals, and whole-food-sourced micronutrients that support gut health and the immune system. Right now, Athletic Greens https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim is offering you their Vitamin D Liquid Formula free with your first subscription purchase—a vital nutrient for a strong immune system and strong bones. Visit AthleticGreens.com/Tim https://www.athleticgreens.com/tim to claim this special offer today and receive the free Vitamin D Liquid Formula (and five free travel packs) with your first subscription purchase! That’s up to a one-year supply of Vitamin D as added value when you try their delicious and comprehensive all-in-one daily greens product. * This episode is also brought to you by Dry Farm Wines http://dryfarmwines.com/tim. I’m a wine drinker, and I love a few glasses over meals with friends. That said, I hate hangovers. For the last few months, all of the wine in my house has been from Dry Farm Wines. Why? At least in my experience, their wine means more fun with fewer headaches. Dry Farm Wines http://dryfarmwines.com/tim only ships wines that meet very stringent criteria: practically sugar free (less than 0.15g per glass), lower alcohol (less than 12.5% alcohol), additive free (there are more than 70 FDA-approved wine-making additives), lower sulfites, organic, and produced by small family farms. All Dry Farm Wines http://dryfarmwines.com/tim are laboratory tested for purity standards by a certified, independent enologist, and all of their wines are also backed by a 100% Happiness Promise—they will either replace or refund any wine you do not love. Last but not least, I find delicious wines http://dryfarmwines.com/tim I never would have found otherwise. It’s a lot of fun. Dry Farm Wines http://dryfarmwines.com/tim has a special offer just for listeners of the podcast—an extra bottle in your first box for just one extra penny http://dryfarmwines.com/tim. Check out all the details at DryFarmWines.com/Tim http://dryfarmwines.com/tim. * Sarah continues her story about childhood depression that Jerry Seinfeld interrupted in Comedians in Cars Getting Coffee, explains what was going on in her life at the time, and answers the question her stepfather posed: “What does it feel like?” [06:34] How did Sarah become her own best friend, and does this make her asocial? [10:47] As a television aficionado, what shows give her comfort and deserve regular revisiting? [17:35] What does Sarah mean by “comedy stress?” [21:02] What Sarah discovered about herself and the comedic process while writing her memoir, working on her first feature, and observing Chris Rock. [22:04] How Sarah’s experience as a writer and performer on Saturday Night Live — and as a basketball player growing up — made her tougher. [28:05] The aftermath of Sarah’s time at SNL and favorite Charlie Kaufman quotes. [36:30] On the rise of extremism across the political spectrum, where it seems to be headed, and what we need to remember about the things we consume via social media. [42:19] The comfort zone of worrying. [46:24] Sarah’s advice to people who are prone to constant self-flagellation. [48:27] How has therapy helped Sarah, and how frequently does she attend sessions? Why did she recently switch therapists? [52:27] Why prompted Sarah to start her own podcast? How does it differ from her comedic work, and how does she choose her participants? [59:47] Is Sarah becoming her mother? [1:05:28] How did Sarah get involved as the dramatic lead in the movie I Smile Back, and what did she take away from the experience? [1:08:16] What did Sarah learn from spending time and working with the late Garry Shandling? [1:11:37] What would Sarah’s billboard say? [1:14:42] Grab joy where you can get it. [1:16:34] Why you should never miss the chance to mourn at a comedian’s funeral. [1:17:31] What would Sarah’s name be if she’d been born a boy? [1:18:41] Parting thoughts. [1:19:11] * For show notes and past guests, please visit tim.blog/podcast https://tim.blog/podcast/?utm_source=podcast&utm_medium=podcast&utm_campaign=podcast-description. Sign up for Tim’s email newsletter (“5-Bullet Friday”) at tim.blog/friday https://go.tim.blog/5-bullet-friday-1/. For transcripts of episodes, go to tim.blog/transcripts http://tim.blog/transcripts. Discover Tim’s books: tim.blog/books http://tim.blog/books. Follow Tim: Twitter: twitter.com/tferriss https://twitter.com/tferriss Instagram: instagram.com/timferriss https://instagram.com/timferriss/ Facebook: facebook.com/timferriss https://www.facebook.com/TimFerriss/ YouTube: youtube.com/timferriss https://www.youtube.com/timferriss Past guests on The Tim Ferriss Show http://tim.blog/podcast include Jerry Seinfeld https://tim.blog/2020/12/08/jerry-seinfeld/, Hugh Jackman https://tim.blog/2020/06/26/hugh-jackman/, Dr. Jane Goodall https://tim.blog/2020/04/16/jane-goodall/, LeBron James https://tim.blog/2018/11/27/lebron-james-mike-mancias/, Kevin Hart https://tim.blog/2020/05/20/kevin-hart/, Doris Kearns Goodwin https://tim.blog/2018/09/07/doris-kearns-goodwin-leadership/, Jamie Foxx https://tim.blog/2015/12/06/jamie-foxx/, Matthew McConaughey https://tim.blog/2020/10/19/matthew-mcconaughey/, Esther Perel https://tim.blog/2017/05/21/esther-perel/, Elizabeth Gilbert https://tim.blog/2020/05/08/elizabeth-gilbert/, Terry Crews https://tim.blog/2017/12/20/terry-crews-how-to-have-do-and-be-all-you-want/, Sia https://tim.blog/2020/08/12/sia/, Yuval Noah Harari https://tim.blog/2020/10/27/yuval-noah-harari/, Malcolm Gladwell https://tim.blog/2016/06/21/malcolm-gladwell/, Madeleine Albright https://tim.blog/2020/05/27/secretary-madeleine-albright/, Cheryl Strayed https://tim.blog/2017/03/30/cheryl-strayed/, Jim Collins https://tim.blog/2019/02/18/jim-collins/, Mary Karr, https://tim.blog/2020/11/11/mary-karr/ Maria Popova https://tim.blog/2014/10/21/brain-pickings/, Sam Harris https://tim.blog/2020/05/15/sam-harris-2/, Michael Phelps https://tim.blog/2021/01/21/michael-phelps-grant-hackett/, Bob Iger https://tim.blog/2020/01/16/bob-iger/, Edward Norton https://tim.blog/2019/10/31/edward-norton-motherless-brooklyn/, Arnold Schwarzenegger https://tim.blog/2015/02/02/arnold-schwarzenegger/, Neil Strauss https://tim.blog/2014/06/24/neil-strauss/, Ken Burns https://tim.blog/2019/09/12/ken-burns/, Maria Sharapova https://tim.blog/2017/08/26/maria-sharapova/, Marc Andreessen https://tim.blog/2016/05/29/marc-andreessen/, Neil Gaiman https://tim.blog/2019/03/28/neil-gaiman/, Neil de Grasse Tyson https://tim.blog/2019/10/03/neil-degrasse-tyson/, Jocko Willink https://tim.blog/2016/09/21/jocko-willink-on-discipline-leadership-and-overcoming-doubt/, Daniel Ek https://tim.blog/2020/12/03/daniel-ek/, Kelly Slater https://tim.blog/2020/09/08/kelly-slater/, Dr. Peter Attia https://tim.blog/2019/11/27/peter-attia-fasting-metformin-longevity/, Seth Godin https://tim.blog/2016/02/10/seth-godin/, Howard Marks https://tim.blog/2018/09/25/howard-marks/, Dr. Brené Brown https://tim.blog/2020/02/06/brene-brown-striving-self-acceptance-saving-marriages/, Eric Schmidt https://tim.blog/2019/04/09/eric-schmidt/, Michael Lewis https://tim.blog/2020/05/01/michael-lewis/, Joe Gebbia https://tim.blog/2018/03/08/joe-gebbia-co-founder-of-airbnb/, Michael Pollan https://tim.blog/2018/05/06/michael-pollan-how-to-change-your-mind/, Dr. Jordan Peterson https://tim.blog/2021/03/01/jordan-peterson/, Vince Vaughn https://tim.blog/2017/05/31/vince-vaughn/, Brian Koppelman https://tim.blog/2020/04/23/brian-koppelman/, Ramit Sethi https://tim.blog/2019/05/07/ramit-sethi/, Dax Shepard https://tim.blog/2020/11/18/dax-shepard/, Tony Robbins https://tim.blog/2014/10/15/money-master-the-game/, Jim Dethmer https://tim.blog/2020/05/18/jim-dethmer/, Dan Harris https://tim.blog/2020/11/19/dan-harris/, Ray Dalio https://tim.blog/2017/09/13/ray-dalio/, Naval Ravikant https://tim.blog/2015/08/18/the-evolutionary-angel-naval-ravikant/, Vitalik Buterin https://tim.blog/2021/03/08/vitalik-buterin-naval-ravikant/, Elizabeth Lesser https://tim.blog/2021/03/16/elizabeth-lesser/, Amanda Palmer https://tim.blog/2019/04/18/amanda-palmer-2/, Katie Haun https://tim.blog/2021/02/18/katie-haun/, Sir Richard Branson https://tim.blog/2017/10/09/richard-branson/, Chuck Palahniuk https://tim.blog/2020/09/02/chuck-palahniuk/, Arianna Huffington https://tim.blog/2017/10/18/arianna-huffington/, Reid Hoffman https://tim.blog/2015/08/31/the-oracle-of-silicon-valley-reid-hoffman-plus-michael-mccullough/, Bill Burr https://tim.blog/2017/09/17/bill-burr/, Whitney Cummings https://tim.blog/2015/06/26/whitney-cummings/, Rick Rubin https://tim.blog/2015/05/15/rick-rubin/, Dr. Vivek Murthy https://tim.blog/2020/03/26/vivek-murthy/, Darren Aronofsky https://tim.blog/2017/09/09/darren-aronofsky/, Balaji Srinivasan https://tim.blog/2021/11/15/balaji-srinivasan-2/, Sarah Silverman https://tim.blog/2022/01/12/sarah-silverman/, Dr. Andrew Huberman https://tim.blog/2021/07/06/andrew-huberman/, Dr. Michio Kaku https://tim.blog/2022/01/07/michio-kaku/, and many more. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  I am, I said. It was a little Neil Diamond impression. To no one there. And no one heard at all, not even the chair. Oh, you can hear me now?

• 0:17Tim Ferriss?

  Optimal minimal. At this altitude, I can run flat out for a half mile before my hands start shaking. Can I ask you a personal question? No, we're just sitting in a perfect time.

• 0:27Speaker 02

  What if I could be out? I'm a cybernetic organism, living tissue over metal endoskeleton.

• 0:41Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Helium 10. Helium 10, one zero, is an all-in-one software suite designed to help entrepreneurs launch, manage, and scale profitable e-commerce businesses on Amazon as well as on Walmart.com. So whether you're an entrepreneur who wants to start a business on your own terms, or you want to scale your existing e-commerce operations, Helium 10 can help. They process more than 2 billion data points daily. That's a lot of data. Have a robust 450-plus million ASIN database and provide at-a-glance analytics like seasonal trends for products, profit estimates, and more. ASIN, just so you know, that's kind of Amazon SKU code of sorts, somewhat like an ISBN.

• 1:25Tim Ferriss?

  So they can really provide, that's Helium 10, intelligence across many, many different products and product categories, so you can make the best decisions possible. They also have educational resources, award-winning training courses, free webinars, podcasts, and community support. I did a bunch of vetting on these guys with help from all of you, actually, looking for recommendations, how much you would recommend them, and I've been very impressed with the feedback I've seen on social media from their community of 1 million-plus users. So they cleared the hurdle, and here they are. If you are an aspiring entrepreneur, Helium 10 will teach you how to build a thriving e-commerce business from A to Z. You'll be able to tap into Amazon's existing customer base, product demand, and shipping infrastructure.

• 2:10Tim Ferriss?

  Structure to launch your business and just as a reminder, Amazon will handle all shipping and returns for you. And if you want to take your business to the next level, Helium 10's community of experts, cutting-edge strategies and advanced trainings led by multimillion-dollar sellers, as well as their tools, will help you scale, save time and improve your customers' experiences, plus manage your financial health, ad spend and much more. Join more than 1 million Helium 10 users worldwide by signing up for a free account at helium10.com/tim. That is helium10.com/tim. Sign up for free at H E L I U M one zero dot com slash tim.

• 2:54Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. I've been asked this for years. The answer is invariably AG1 by Athletic Greens. I view it as all-in-one nutritional insurance. So you can cover your bases. If you're traveling, if you're just busy, if you're not sure if your meals are where they should be, it covers your bases. I've recommended it since the Four Hour Body, which was, God, eons ago, 2010, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals and whole food sourced ingredients, you'll be hard pressed to find a more nutrient-dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multi-mineral greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut

• 3:38Tim Ferriss?

  health and immunity formula, digestive enzymes and adaptogens. You get the idea. It is very, very comprehensive. And I do my best, of course, to focus on nutrient-dense, proper meals. But sometimes you're busy. Sometimes you're traveling. Sometimes you just want to make sure that you're getting what you need. AG1 makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition when whole foods aren't readily available. It's also NSF certified for sport, making it safe for competitive athletes as what's on the label is in the powder. It's the ultimate all-in-one nutritional supplement bundle in one easy scoop. Right now Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all-in-one formula, which

• 4:20Tim Ferriss?

  Is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D. I've found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com/tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/tim.

• 4:57Tim Ferriss?

  Hello, boys and girls, ladies and germs. This is Tim Ferriss. Welcome to another episode of the Tim Ferriss Show. This is your host, Tim Ferriss. My guest today is Sarah Silverman. You can find her on Twitter @SarahS A R A H K Silverman. Sarah is a two-time Emmy Award-winning comedian, actress, writer, and producer. She currently hosts the Sarah Silverman Podcast and stars in the HBO Max animated series Santa, Inc., opposite Seth Rogen. She will next be seen opposite Jennifer Lopez and Owen Wilson in the feature film Marry Me. Other upcoming projects include TBS's Stupid Pet Tricks, an expansion of the famous David Letterman late-night segment, and the indie psychological thriller Viral,

• 5:38Tim Ferriss?

  starring alongside Blair Underwood. Her memoir, called The Bedwetter: Stories of Courage, Redemption, and Pee, which went on to become a New York Times bestseller, is currently being adapted into a musical with the Atlantic Theater Company to premiere in April 2022. Silverman served as creator, executive producer, and host of the Emmy-nominated series I Love You, America, which streamed weekly on Hulu and saw her connecting with people through honesty and humor. On stage, she continues to be recognized as a force in stand-up comedy. Her latest stand-up special, A Speck of Dust, debuted on Netflix in May 2017 and culminated in two Emmy Award nominations and a Grammy Award nomination. Her additional film and television work includes Battle of the Sexes, I Smile Back, Wreck-It Ralph, Wreck-It Ralph

• 6:23Tim Ferriss?

  2, Ralph Breaks the Internet, Masters of Sex, and Bob's Burgers. You can find her on social, as mentioned earlier, on Twitter @SarahKSilverman and on Instagram @SarahKateSilverman. Sarah, welcome to the show. It's nice to finally see you.

• 6:37Speaker 00

  Likewise.

• 6:39Tim Ferriss?

  And I thought we would start with an unfinished story from my perspective, which came about when I had COVID and I was isolating and I was watching multiple episodes of comedians in cars getting coffee. And I watched your episode where you had coffee with Jerry and you were beginning to tell this heartfelt story. You said, I went through a terrible depression. I remember my stepfather says, what does it feel like? And then Jerry jumps in to say, excuse me to the waitstaff, can I get some half and half?

• 7:11Speaker 00

  Oh, wow.

• 7:12Tim Ferriss?

  You're like, really? What was it that much of an emergency? And then the edit cut to a different segment of the conversation. So I was wondering if it's possible for you to finish the cliffhanger because I was actually interested to hear the rest of that. I went through a terrible depression. I remember my stepfather saying, what does it feel like? And then you got cut off by the half and half.

• 7:33Speaker 00

  Wow. Yes, I can tell you exactly. And you know, it's one of the few like very clear memories I have of that time. I depression came over me when I was 13. Like, I always say it's like as, as fast as getting the, you ever get the flu and from one moment to the next, you just go, you feel fine. And then you go, oh, oh my God, I have the flu. Like that fast. It's just like a cloud covering the sun. And all of a sudden it's dark, you know? It lasted for a few years and it was the eighties and I was put on Xanax. That's

• 8:12Speaker 00

  a crazy story. And ultimately was just given more and more and more until I was 13 and taking 16 Xanax a day, four Xanax, four times a day.

• 8:23Tim Ferriss?

  Good Lord. Wow.

• 8:25Speaker 00

  It just doesn't even seem possible. It's, it's, it can't be legal to be giving a child that much drugs. My mom and my dad were kind of trying to come up with solutions and fix things. And my stepdad was the only one who just asked me what it felt like.

• 8:44Speaker 00

  And it was the first time I had to think about what it felt like. And I really came up with the perfect description, which is, it felt just like I was homesick, but I was home. So there was no way to satiate it. You know, there was nothing to hope for. There was no home to go to. I was home.

• 9:03Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. And that was where, if we place you in time, where were you at the time?

• 9:09Speaker 00

  206 County Road, Bedford, New Hampshire, 03110.

• 9:13Tim Ferriss?

  Can you think of or identify anything that led to that wave crashing over you at that time? Is there anything that you can point to that acted as a trigger?

• 9:23Speaker 00

  I remember the moment it happened, what was happening. I, you know, I was a chronic bedwetter and we had the eighth grade camping trip, which was a four day camping trip up Mount Cardigan. And I was the student leader and I cried the whole time and I had diapers hidden in my sleeping bag and I just felt humiliated and homesick. Nobody caught me with the, I slipped diapers in my sleeping bag so that I wouldn't pee in my sleeping bag. I was 12, 13, but I just was painfully homesick and I, I never enjoyed a moment

• 10:05Speaker 00

  of it. It was terrible. And I, I probably would have loved it anyway. It was humiliating. And we come home and I just want to go home and go into bed and I've got my giant backpack with all my stuff and everyone's getting off the bus and my mom picks me up. She was a photographer and she just was taking pictures of me like a paparazzi and I was begging her to stop. And it was just this very odd combination of being photographed and ignored at the same time.

• 10:39Tim Ferriss?

  Hmm.

• 10:39Speaker 00

  That's when it happened. And there's a picture of it. I have a picture of the moment depression took hold of me.

• 10:48Tim Ferriss?

  It's kind of incredible that you have that locked in the amber in a way. You have that moment captured. And part of the reason I'm asking is I do not have a clear vision of when the depressive episodes that I've experienced started. I know that it seems to be congenital. My dad has had extended depressions for as long as I can remember. I don't know when my experience of that started, right? In retrospect, it kind of seems like it was ever present. But what I'd love to do is actually flash forward to something I read in a piece from a few years ago in The Guardian, because I'm curious about How this has kind of lent itself to your life. I read that your mom always said,

• 11:32Tim Ferriss?

  "Be your own best friend."

• 11:34Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 11:34Tim Ferriss?

  And this was at the very end of a Guardian interview, I suppose. And the paragraph reads, "As we say our goodbyes, Mary the dog trots off down the corridor to pay some visits, and Silverman asks if we can hug. I mentioned that she seems happy, glowing, in fact. Why? This is going to sound obnoxious, but Mom always said, 'Be your own best friend,' and I really, really mastered that." And it goes on. Could you just elaborate on that? Because I think this is one of my lifelong quests, is to get to that point. I would love to hear you just speak more to that. And maybe just describe how your mom instilled it and also how you practiced it, if that was something that you explicitly practiced.

• 12:16Speaker 00

  I kind of went from, I was serial monogamous. I wouldn't go out on a date with a guy without at least putting two years on. Like, I just, maybe out of politeness, or, you know, I like, there was one relationship, I just completely lost myself. My partner fell in love with this independent woman, and I became a completely dependent, codependent. You know, I got out of that relationship so emotionally atrophied. I forgot who I was. I forgot, I remember, I just kept saying, like, "I don't know how to be."

• 12:50Speaker 00

  And that was really scary for me. And I think from then on, I really got, it became really important to me to be alone and enjoy that. And I became, I loved it. I would come home and go, "What do you want to do tonight? Me?" I love hanging out with myself, but I also love television. I said recently on my podcast, I had to kind of admit, I always say how much I love being alone, and I do. But I'm... Constantly being kept company, got the TV on, I'm listening to Howard Stern. I've got, I guess when I listen to music, I think that's, it, it takes me to a new place that, that isn't just company, but it's, it is a, a comp.

• 13:34Speaker 00

  I'm trying to use the word.

• 13:37Speaker 00

  It's mind comp.

• 13:38Tim Ferriss?

  No, um. Rebrand, rebrand.

• 13:41Speaker 00

  I did actually practice, I lived in this apartment building for 14 years. I just moved into my first house since growing up in New Hampshire. But I would walk in from the apartment building and there were mirrors, um, by the elevator and I'd make myself look in the mirror and give myself a thumbs up. And even though it's silly, because it's silly, I guess, it always made me laugh. It just makes me laugh. So it's nice to have kind of inside jokes with yourself. I also became very comfortable talking out loud when I'm alone. When you first try it as an experiment, you really have to like break through a wall. Like it feels so odd and now I'm so comfortable doing it. But oftentimes.

• 14:26Tim Ferriss?

  Are you talking to yourself or other people, the world in general? What, what do you?

• 14:31Speaker 00

  I just talk out loud. I think, I think just creatively, just as a human, I'll be saying my half of a conversation I'm imagining or, or just be in conversation with myself. You know, I mean, I think when someone has a dog, they feel comfortable doing that. But essentially that isn't talking to yourself. You're talking to another living thing, but remove the dog and there's, there isn't a big difference in that. Conversation and.

• 15:00Tim Ferriss?

  In the conversation.

• 15:01Speaker 00

  Yeah. And so I, I got really comfortable talking out loud, so much so that I, I've had boyfriends that are like, what? No, nothing. I wasn't talking to you.

• 15:11Tim Ferriss?

  Talking to myself.

• 15:12Speaker 00

  But I, I feel like I get a lot out of that, just talk, because we are always have this kind of inner monologue going on. Do we? I don't know. I think we do. You know, we're, we're always thinking something. Meditation is trying to clear that out. So we must be always have something in our heads.

• 15:33Tim Ferriss?

  Was that something that you always had that feeling of enjoyment or being at ease with yourself and you just had to resurrect it after getting lost in that relationship? Or was it something that you were kind of building from the ground up afterwards?

• 15:48Speaker 00

  My friends always made fun of me because I, I have the opposite of FOMO. One of my best friends, John, he loves telling the story. I was living in West Hollywood and all my friends lived on the east side and I just never saw them because I, it was, I couldn't even imagine getting in my car and going to a bar to hang out. I don't know why. I don't just, I just, I like staying home. I love watching TV. It's not very intellectual, but I, it's really my joy. There was a birthday party for two really close friends, not even a block away, and I didn't make it. And he was just like, you're unbelievable. But when

• 16:30Speaker 00

  I do go out, I am social and I love talking to people and meeting new people and I am a people person. But I just really love, I love being alone and I, I've had friends, especially now, really annoyed with me that I'm not connecting with them. And I feel busy because when I have free time, I want to take a nap or watch TV or snuggle with my dog. And I love my friends and I, I do drop the ball a lot. I have a lot of friends that say, why is it always me calling you? And I feel terrible because I love them and I think of them and I, I keep track of them, you know, on social media, whatever. This

• 17:15Speaker 00

  is, this is asshole excuses. I'm really not good at staying connected.

• 17:23Tim Ferriss?

  Well, it's, uh, makes me think of friend Jason Freed talking about the opposite of FOMO as JOMO, the joy of missing out.

• 17:32Tim Ferriss?

  That's, yeah, that's his, that's his take.

• 17:35Speaker 00

  I mean, there's nothing better than someone canceling plans for me.

• 17:41Tim Ferriss?

  Surprise gift, surprise gift. So you mentioned, you mentioned watching TV. Are there series that you have re-watched multiple times or watched multiple times? Or if you had to, is there anything that jumps to mind as something that you would absolutely replay?

• 17:54Speaker 00

  Law and Order is my safe space. I just, something about this soft core murder.

• 18:03Speaker 00

  You know, the, the kind of like commedia version of things ripped from the headlines. Like not, not true crime, but that-

• 18:11Tim Ferriss?

  Homicidal, but approachable?

• 18:12Speaker 00

  Yeah, you know, you know, you don't really see blood, you know, but it's, and I, it's all Broadway actors, you know, playing cops and lawyers. And I love watching the same actors playing different roles, you know, and just, I think it comes from this, which is when you're on the road, it's a constant. Wherever you are, you can find a law and order. And it, it's like my, uh, what do they call it in the, my totem? You know, what is, you know, the movie?

• 18:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's totally, yeah, yeah. It's like a totem of some kind.

• 18:45Speaker 00

  It's a constant, you know, it's something I can always, you know, I used to bring the same like plaid blanket that I'd shoved into my bag, just so I could put it over the hotel blanket and just have something just consistent, something that feels like home. So I think Law and Order has just always been that. And now I'm, it's so funny, like I'm discovering I'm loving Columbo, which you know, like from the seventies and eighties.

• 19:12Tim Ferriss?

  It's a classic.

• 19:13Speaker 00

  It's so good and just bizarre. And but, um, and I, I tend to not watch comedies, even though I really should. And when I do, I'm glad I did. But I think as a comedian, it feels stressful. I don't go like, oh, this would be relaxing, you know, but either it's, I don't like it or I like it. And I'm, yeah, I go, oh God, I wish I wrote that, you know, but, but I do end up liking it. And one show that's on, that I watched the whole first three seasons twice through is, and I'm waiting for the fourth season. And it's a comedy is What We Do in the Shadows.

• 19:51Tim Ferriss?

  What we do in the show is what is it about?

• 19:53Speaker 00

  It's on FX. It is. It looks like a reality show. It's a very, it's because it's one of those like mockumentary style. But it's about these three vampires living together in a house in Staten Island. And it's very like, kind of show about nothing, like just about everyday life, getting along. But then they have unbelievable effects. So to see that in a format that's like reality TV, the contrast is so fascinating. And it's just brilliant.

• 20:26Tim Ferriss?

  That's amazing. I didn't realize that. I knew that name sounded familiar and I didn't realize that it was made into a TV show because it started as the New Zealand mockumentary. I knew that I recognized the name with.

• 20:40Speaker 00

  Taika Waititi and Jermaine Clement.

• 20:43Tim Ferriss?

  That's right. Yeah, yeah, that was outstanding. I had no idea that it had been made into a television series.

• 20:48Speaker 00

  The movie is so great, but I have to say, I love, I love the series even more. There's just some, the actors are unbelievable and it just, it brings me a lot of joy. It doesn't give me that comedy stress for some reason. I think I'm growing out of it.

• 21:02Tim Ferriss?

  When you say comedy stress, what does that mean? Like, like you're

• 21:05Speaker 00

  It's just, I think.

• 21:06Tim Ferriss?

  Analyzing, analyzing it as it plays out in front of you because it's your craft? What do you mean by comedy stress?

• 21:11Speaker 00

  I think so. And I think I've, I've shed that a lot, but I think comedians kind of go one of two ways. Judd Apatow watches everything comedy that comes out, podcast, movie, TV. He just loves consuming. He loves comedy. You know, it's like, it's like when you watch like a Scorsese film or a Tarantino film where you go like, oh, these movies are made by someone who loves movies. Like I think Judd is like of that school. Then there are other comedians and I, I'm not proud that I fall into this, that just, it's not relaxing to watch comedy. It's relaxing to watch a murder mystery or, you know, like for me, I like thrillers or murdery stuff.

• 21:56Speaker 00

  Peaky Blinders, you know, stuff that's just not in my world, something that I can just get lost in.

• 22:04Tim Ferriss?

  When you wrote your memoir, Bedwetter, Stories of Courage, Redemption and Pee, was there any part that you found?

• 22:14Tim Ferriss?

  Particularly or very cathartic to put down on paper. I mean, you've lived so publicly, shared so many stories. Was there anything that just felt different or freeing or cathartic when you put it in the book? Or the opposite, extremely difficult to kind of put down?

• 22:33Speaker 00

  The first couple of months of stuff I wrote, I had to throw away because it was, I was writing the way I thought a writer should write, instead of just the prose of how I talk, me, however that is.

• 22:48Tim Ferriss?

  Using your voice.

• 22:49Speaker 00

  You know, it's like the first time I did Fresh Air with Terry Gross. I remember I was like, "Well, Terry, you know, um, you know," and then I was just like, "Who is this?" I felt like I had to,

• 23:01Speaker 00

  I grew up with NPR. I wanted to have that voice. I felt like I needed to. So these moments where I found myself trying to do or be what I've seen before, what is normal, and then I had to just throw it out. I was writing with such furrowed brow, you could see it. Then just kind of almost being an investigative reporter in my life, interviewing my parents and seeing how those stories, their perspective on things were the same and where they were different and kind of be a detective in my own life to be able to tell a story and realizing stuff I had never

• 23:43Speaker 00

  realized, you know, having to deconstruct. I always thought, "Oh, God, well, you know, deconstructing comedy just ruins it." But it kind of doesn't. It's interesting. And to me, it's fascinating. It's what I love. And writing that book made me realize, really see the trajectory of how I became a comedian because I had a dad who thought it was hilarious to teach his three-year-old swears. And then I would yell those swears at the market. And I just, I remember the feeling of yelling it out and all these grownups giving me this wild approval despite themselves. And that feeling-

• 24:30Speaker 00

  I just became addicted. I remember my like arms itched with glee. And of course, I chased that. Shock became my currency at three and four and five. And it just made so much sense, looking at how I depended on that. And then after my first special, which was a stand-up movie, actually, I didn't get a special with anyone, but the guy from Interscope was like, "I'll make a movie." And Jesus's Magic was my first special. It came out like a movie. After that, I had to start over. That was my first special, so it was the best of everything I had ever done, you know, kind of assembled. Now I had nothing. I had done it as a one,

• 25:12Speaker 00

  like a one-woman show for a few years. And then it came out in like 2004 or 2005. So I had been working with all that material for so long. And then I just kept doing it a little bit. And then I was like...

• 25:30Tim Ferriss?

  After it came out?

• 25:31Speaker 00

  Yeah, I just didn't know what to do because I had a real identity crisis and it was, it was a great moment of growth in a way because I...

• 25:42Speaker 00

  People didn't want to see the same material. I had to write new material, but in order to do that, I had to disappoint audiences. I had to start over. And now people came to see me. I wasn't just comedian number seven at the improv lineup. People were coming to see me, but I had to start over. What they expected was to be shocked and surprised. And I wanted to give them that. And I didn't know how to do that because they had an expectation of it now. What I had to realize was comedy dies in the second guessing of what your audience wants to see. It was never how I had started. And now I found myself in this place where I was like,

• 26:26Speaker 00

  "Well, if they're expecting to be surprised, they need to surprise them, but then, then I'm giving them what they're expecting." And I just had to stop. And I got very inspired, you know, by watching Chris Rock, who... Does a special, I mean, he's such a pro. He goes out on the road. He, you know, runs it, runs it, runs it, tweaks it, you know, all those things. And then he starts at zero and he goes to the Comedy Cellar or wherever he goes and they bring him up and the audience goes bananas. And he doesn't take on that pressure of wanting to give them what they want to see. He just, what do I got? He brings it down to zero. He, he bombs. And maybe one

• 27:10Speaker 00

  or two or three things, there's something there. It's work. And you have to be brave enough to eat a bowl of shit and try, try new stuff and see where it goes. And then some stuff that bombs, you cut and some stuff that bombs, you still believe in it. There's something here. I like this. It's, it could be just missing a beat or an end or a, an article of a word, or I'm setting it up too much rooms, or I'm not setting it up enough. But the point is, you have to be brave enough to bomb again and start over. Even if you're famous, even if people come to see you and you know they're gonna

• 27:53Speaker 00

  be disappointed. Because that process is, you can't avoid it. You can't write a monologue at home and memorize it. It's just not how comedy works. The audience is half of it.

• 28:05Tim Ferriss?

  And there's a, I would have to imagine a toughness that you develop through repetitions of that attempting to rise from the ashes like a phoenix with zero, just eating shit sandwiches over and over again. I have read, and I actually don't know the details on this, kind of deliberately, because if I knew all the answers to the questions I was going to ask, that'd be very boring for me. I would love to hear a bit about your Saturday Night Live experience, because I've read that helped you to become tougher. And I don't know if that's true. And I also don't know the details of what happened. But could you perhaps just describe what your experience was?

• 28:46Speaker 00

  I think what I meant was it really was like a boot camp. And I remember going in thinking, oh, my gosh, I have this job where I can dream things up. And then they're on television. And it didn't necessarily go that way, but it was a great experience and I learned so much. And it was still very much a boys' club, to use that old. There were not many women around and it was just a very different time. It was about to really change, but it hadn't yet. I did like it and I got along with everyone and I really shined on Thursday nights for Punch Up.

• 29:29Speaker 00

  That was like where I could really, I felt like I-

• 29:32Tim Ferriss?

  What is Punch Up?

• 29:33Speaker 00

  Oh, uh, so Thursday night, you take the writer's room, you sit around a big table and this is how it was in ninety-four. And, um-

• 29:43Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 29:44Speaker 00

  You go through all of the scripts that are now chosen to be on the show and we, you punch them up. You, you know, oh, there could be a joke here. Let's think that there maybe there's something better for this, you know? Just go through it and see, try to make it better as a group.

• 29:59Tim Ferriss?

  Yep.

• 30:00Speaker 00

  And boy, I mean, it was, there were computers then, but we still wrote on legal pads and gave it to a room of typists. I remember my first day, I was put with these three guys who were hired right out of Harvard. And we were all twenty-two, but I didn't go to college. I was a stand-up. And they kind of put us together because we were the kids and the newbies or whatever. And, um, I spent the whole day with these guys. And at the end of it, they, I mean, they thought I was a typist. They just assumed I was a typist.

• 30:36Tim Ferriss?

  At the end of the day.

• 30:37Speaker 00

  You know, we're hanging out, we're getting to know each other and they go, so are you a typist? Or, and I was like, what? I'm a writer like you. And it was just, I always think of how it was for me to be a woman in comedy. As how it was for me to be a woman in basketball because I played basketball growing up, but not at school. I played at the Y. And so I always played with almost all men. And I still, although I haven't played since um March twenty twenty, play pickup games with almost all men. Sometimes a woman will play and it's great. And I always demand that we're on the same team because I hate how they always go, well, you will each take a girl. You know, like, I've played my whole life. I play, you know.

• 31:22Speaker 00

  But that feeling of going to pickup games and the, you can feel guys rolling their eyes or the a burden they feel that they have a girl on their team or this and having to prove yourself so much. And I, I like using this analogy with other women in comedy or other women that I play basketball with. Every shot as a woman that you shoot and miss is like missing a hundred baskets. Because you feel the weight of the guy go, oh. And maybe I'm putting that on them. Maybe it's true and maybe I'm putting it on them. And either way, it shouldn't be in my head, but it is. And you carry this weight and it doesn't help you. And I always say sometimes, especially in New York, I love just watching the pickup games and stuff.

• 32:08Speaker 00

  And there's always, maybe there's a woman playing and I go, watch how many times these guys shoot and miss and shake it off and shoot again and shoot again and shoot again. That's how you get better. You cannot take on this. Oh, I'm a woman in a guy's game and I, that feeling that if I shoot and miss, I better not shoot for a while. I better just work on setting picks and it really taught me something. Suddenly taking the focus off of myself, which is really a self centeredness. And watching the guys and watching them fail, shake it off, shoot again, shoot again. And go, oh, yeah.

• 32:52Speaker 00

  Yeah, I can keep shooting. If I have a shot, I should shoot. Does that make sense at all as an analogy?

• 32:58Tim Ferriss?

  It does. Yeah, no, it does make sense. It does make sense. And did it take you so my understanding with the with the SNL?

• 33:07Speaker 00

  Oh, God, I completely forgot we were talking about SNL.

• 33:09Tim Ferriss?

  No, no, that's what that's okay. No, it's okay. Because I think it ties to the basketball in the sense that is it true that you got fired by fax or let go by fax?

• 33:19Speaker 00

  I got a call, a three way call from my agent, my manager, and I it never occurred to me that I wasn't coming back. I was already writing sketches. I was like, and this year's gonna be better. It's gonna be great, you know. And and I go, oh, they're both calling me. Hello, you know, what wonderful news must this be? And of course, I was hired, and they said that they had gotten a fax. I mean, it's fine that they got a fax. That's the business. That's how it was. They let go of a lot of people that were had their first year. But I remember starting out comedy and guy comics giving me advice. And they go, um, the best woman comic is Paula Poundstone. And that was probably true. I love her. But

• 34:02Speaker 00

  they go, and the reason is because a guy could do the same material and it would work. And I bought it. I bought that. I mean, looking back, I'm just like, that's so absurd that a woman comic couldn't talk about the experience of being a woman. The conceit was, yes, the audience is half men and half women. But the women are in dates, and they only laugh if the man laughs. So your audience is the men.

• 34:31Tim Ferriss?

  Never thought about that.

• 34:31Speaker 00

  Well, it's absurd and stupid.

• 34:35Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 34:35Speaker 00

  That was what it was.

• 34:40Tim Ferriss?

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• 35:26Tim Ferriss?

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• 36:11Tim Ferriss?

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• 36:30Tim Ferriss?

  Well, see, you mentioned not taking on this burden of, for lack of a better term, kind of hiding, say, as a woman, taking a shot in a basketball game, if you happen to miss, right? In the case of SNL, because part of what's impressed me, does impress me still about you, is just your longevity in the craft. I mean, it's really remarkable, it's really remarkable, and it's not altogether common at all. And I'm curious, after the SNL, were you able to dust yourself off and just get right back to work quickly? No. Did it take a while to recover from? Yes.

• 37:09Speaker 00

  I remember.

• 37:10Tim Ferriss?

  Please, please tell me more.

• 37:12Speaker 00

  I have a, a Polaroid picture I took of myself and I saw it when I was moving. I had cut my bangs, maybe an inch, just insane looking bangs. And I, and it just says, no confidence on it, I wrote. And I just, I remember thinking like, am I in show business any, like I, I didn't know where I fit in. I didn't know who I was. I didn't know how to just, you know, and eventually I just put my head down and kept doing stand up. And it, it led me wherever it led me. I've really never made a plan. In show business, I've never thought like, I want to do this, or I, I know this is maybe not.

• 37:55Speaker 00

  It's not advice at all, but I, I've never set goals for myself. I just always kind of, I don't know. I love the stuff I do. I think of myself as I do odd jobs and like when I couldn't do stand up. I said, I, well, I was, I have to do a podcast. I'm, what am I going to do with all of this? But I do think part of the longevity is just being open to be changed. What I learned after that first special that I talked about, that really changed my life along with therapy. But to be brave enough to bomb, to change and no longer have the same fans, to disappoint people.

• 38:38Speaker 00

  And just go on the trajectory I go on. There's a line in a song in a musical. Sunday in the Park with George. It's a song called Move On and she says. The choice may be mistaken. The choosing is not. You've got to move on and it, it does free you. I feel like you can. Thinking of that, it's the whole play is quite brilliant. It's about art and life. But that it doesn't matter the choice. It doesn't make a difference. You're gonna wind up where you're gonna wind up. But make one. Because it can be so paralyzing, I think. Not wanting to make a mistake. And, and I think what I learned from that basketball analogy as well,

• 39:21Speaker 00

  along with a brilliant quote by Charlie Kaufman, and it's being talked about a lot just in general, is how essential failure is and what you do with it, which is not a new concept anymore.

• 39:34Tim Ferriss?

  Is this it? I'm just pulled it up. Failure is a badge of honor. It means you've risked failure. If you don't risk failure, you're never going to do anything that's different than what you've already done or what someone else has done.

• 39:44Speaker 00

  Oh, wow. I never heard the whole thing. I, all I knew is don't fear failure. Failure should be a badge of honor. It means you risked failure. Look at all these, you know, the, the concept of cancel culture, and I can argue either side of it passionately. But another thing is, if you think of yourself as a risk taker in comedy, for instance, the thing that makes it a risk is that there's something to lose, is that there's consequences.

• 40:12Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 40:12Speaker 00

  You can't just say, I'm risky and then be angry if there are any consequences. You know, you gotta take it and be changed by it or disagree with it maybe, but wonder about it. It's like when you get notes from a network, and I know there must be a, I know this sounds very specific to, you know, show business, but of course, any job where you have a boss. And you get notes from a network and you go, this is stupid. This is not even, there's always something that they're on to. Some germ of something, the spirit of that note that you need to figure out, because they're on to something. But they maybe don't know how to articulate it.

• 40:52Tim Ferriss?

  The first sentence in that quote by Charlie Kaufman that I don't have any context for was, do not simplify. And then it goes on to do not fear failure. And I wonder what that refers to.

• 41:01Speaker 00

  We need to find the whole thing. Oh, inspirational writing advice from Charlie Kaufman. It's on YouTube. We're gonna have to watch it. It's, I heard it as a quote, or I read it as a quote, and I was like, oh, my God, and completely attached myself to it. And of course, I never just Googled the whole thing. Now I'm very excited to watch.

• 41:23Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, it's 41 minutes. We'll link to that. And there's, Charlie Kaufman's got all sorts of good quotes. "Say who you are. Really say it in your life and in your work. Tell someone out there who has lost, someone not yet born, someone who won't be born for 500 years. Your writing will be a record of your time. It can't help but be that. But more importantly, if you're honest about who you are, you'll help that person be less lonely in their world because that person will recognize him or herself in you, and that will give them hope." All right, Charlie Kaufman, I'm sold. Charlie Kaufman, who was, as I understand it, one of modern cinema's most celebrated writers with work including surreal fantasy being John Malkovich, cerebral sci-fi Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind, comedy-drama adaptation, and extraordinary animation, Anomalisa?

• 42:09Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, yeah. I don't know that one. Wow, all right. Well, we will put that video inspirational writing advice from Charlie Kaufman, 41 minutes. You know, I have spent way too much time on the internet with this kind of accidental audience, or unexpected audience, after my first book in 2007. And I've seen in the last, say, four or five years, some really disconcerting patterns emerge just watching this large, for me, you know, large-ish following. Massive. And I imagine, I've seen a lot of well-intentioned, in some cases, well-educated, doesn't really matter,

• 42:51Tim Ferriss?

  but thoughtful people get pushed to the polar ends, into these extremes, or pushed themselves, or just been led by algorithms, who knows? You know, it makes me think of, and I could also be getting the facts wrong on this, but it was either Fahrenheit 451 or 1984, one of those lovely dystopian novels, that makes me think of book burning in one of them, probably Fahrenheit 451. And there's this kind of monolithic state, and the firemen and so on. But the book burning started with the people, the people themselves burning the books. And the kind of righteousness porn and reputational assassination that I've seen,

• 43:35Tim Ferriss?

  even among people who you would think to be at the same kind of tribe, let's just say, listeners of this podcast, is really disconcerting to me. And I'm curious to know... Where you think this goes? Does it burn itself out in some fashion? Does it get increasingly bad with higher and higher consequences? Because you're, I mean, you're watching a lot of these, these events unfold and you're noticing them. If you had to hazard a guess, where do you think this goes, right? Three years from now, two or three years or four or five years from now? What do you think, what do you think it looks like?

• 44:12Speaker 00

  I'm gonna have to say a very solid, I don't know. But, um, you know, I, I just, I couldn't begin to guess what the future holds for us in terms of, I think the sooner people realize we're all totally connected and you're fighting with yourself, basically, the better.

• 44:34Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 44:35Speaker 00

  But I do think there's, we're, we're at really like the pendulum is, has frozen in both.

• 44:43Speaker 00

  Yeah. And they're almost a mirror image of each other in a real fucked up way as much as neither side would want to see that.

• 44:54Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 44:55Speaker 00

  What is your answer to that? I mean, listen, you, when you leave social media for a while, you realize it's not the whole world. It's not even most of the world or half of the world is a very small part of the world. But it's given us this thing where we in real time can see how like almost everyone, you know, it's what seems like everyone feels and it's, I don't know. I don't know where it's gonna go from here. Listen, unless Facebook and YouTube radicalize people by, by algorithm. They, you know, it's not like they're set out to do it, but greed has made them do it because it, inciting rage is, they found very lucrative.

• 45:37Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, Twitter too.

• 45:38Speaker 00

  And so you see a headline and the headline is designed even reputable places now their headline is clickbait. It's so one small piece of a story that is the most salacious and maybe you if you click on and read it proves to not be true at all or is wildly minimal to

• 46:04Speaker 00

  but who clicks on it and reads it? Very few people. They're reacting to so it's just these these little beams of light coming out at your face to upset you and make you angry and whoever you are, it's designed just for you.

• 46:24Tim Ferriss?

  Guest on the podcast, very bright guy who has the most endurance of any guest I've ever had, Balaji Srini Vasan. He talks about the media you consume having root access to your brain in the same way that you can have root access to a computer and therefore control the computer, right? So if you if coding is scripting the behavior, let's just call it behavior of computers, then media is basically the code that gets installed into humans. And so when you have algorithms on Twitter or anywhere else for that matter, YouTube, right, that are kind of self perpetuating by reinforcing to greater and greater extremes

• 47:09Tim Ferriss?

  because they're more effective for producing clicks. Of course, I'm, you know, I'm not a Nostradamus. I don't know where that leads, but I do see, you know, more and more examples of the kind of hatred and vitriol online resulting in people getting doxed to having their physical addresses and personal information posted in the hopes that there will be some type of violent consequence. And I really do, and I think it's also just my nature. I come from a long line of warriors. So I think that I have to be aware of my predisposition to go to worst case scenarios. I don't know, there's some part of me that maybe perversely just gets something out of.

• 47:53Speaker 00

  I think for a lot of people and I think myself included and I really see it like in my stepmom and and so many of us that worry is.

• 48:03Speaker 00

  Even though we don't want to be in worry, we don't want to be worried. It's our comfort zone because it's familiar.

• 48:11Tim Ferriss?

  Do you experience that yourself or do you do you see that more so and?

• 48:14Speaker 00

  Yeah, I do. I do. I mean, all these things I know and talk about is purely aspirational for me. You know, I can hear myself talking. I mean, my mouth.

• 48:27Tim Ferriss?

  Well, I mean, in a sense, they're aspirational, but I'm still impressed by this sort of success story around the be your own best friend. I think that's very rare. I think that at least in,

• 48:41Tim Ferriss?

  you know, my kind of concentric circle of friends, I think that particularly if people are driven and I think, even though you may not have a five or 10 year or 20 year plan, I mean, I think most people would consider you very successful in what you do. A lot of that drive seems to translate to people being very dissatisfied with themselves or hypercritical of themselves. Or at least they seem to correlate. So what advice would you give somebody who's maybe prone to self-flagellating? Would you have any advice to them if they're just, they're not yet at a place where they maybe, they maybe they don't even particularly like themselves, but they use work as a way to occupy their minds so that they're distracted from that.

• 49:24Speaker 00

  I think in terms of the self-flagellation, I see it and, and I, I don't mean this to add to pile on someone who is constantly putting themselves down in their head or out loud. But it is not modesty. It is self obsession unless those thoughts turn into change that make you into the person you would be very happy to be, then it's very masturbatory. It's you're not seeing, there's no room to observe and watch and be delighted and mused by others. It's, it's just all self. I have friends that are comics that cannot be alone.

• 50:05Speaker 00

  They are out until four in the morning and only go home when it's they can drop to sleep and it worries me.

• 50:13Tim Ferriss?

  Why do you think they do that?

• 50:14Speaker 00

  Because being alone is terrifying for them. Being still.

• 50:20Speaker 00

  Being alone, being alone with their thoughts is terrifying. And listen, I admit to you, I, I love being alone, but alone with my thoughts is a whole other thing, you know, I mean, I, I am often, but I still entertain myself with television and radio and radio.

• 50:40Speaker 00

  I just think there's, when you accept yourself, the way you accept any schmuck on the street, there's, you just have a lot more room for other stuff. I had a therapist who said, look in the mirror less. And I found it to be incredibly profound because you know, instead of like, just know that any one of us looking in the mirror does not see what other people see. Not that what other people see is what's important, but we cognitively distort what we see in the mirror so much. I mean, look at the whole thing with selfies and I see it the same as people who heckle.

• 51:21Speaker 00

  And I know that sounds really weird connection, but hecklers to me, whether they're saying something, yelling something out lovely or mean or whatever it is, it's interrupting, you know, like a show.

• 51:35Speaker 00

  And the same with people who are constantly taking selfies. I feel like the subtext is the same for both, which is,

• 51:42Speaker 00

  I exist, right?

• 51:46Speaker 00

  And you know, that's ultimately what it is, is that, you know, we're all,

• 51:51Speaker 00

  life is this existential crisis of like, what is it to exist? We need it to mean something.

• 51:58Tim Ferriss?

  I completely agree with you on the, and I say this as someone who I think is, is pretty self-absorbed, as evidenced by my depressive episodes in, in the past. It, it, no, but it, cause it is the, the sort of the me, me, me, I, I, I song. When you're either suffering from depression or anxiety, you're kind of trapped in a self referential loop, right? So I think,

• 52:21Speaker 00

  Yeah, it's not conceded. It's not, you know, it's awful, but it's consumed to be consumed.

• 52:27Tim Ferriss?

  And I think that what's been hard for me is realizing that, but not being able to extricate myself from that loop. This might be a, a good time to just ask, in what ways therapy has been most helpful to you?

• 52:43Tim Ferriss?

  There's good, the bad and the ugly among therapists, right? So I'm wondering, how has therapy most helped you? Why has it been helpful?

• 52:52Speaker 00

  Besides that, it's another perspective on your life and how you see things and how you relate to people. Listen, there are plenty of terrible therapists out there, but it's always bizarre to me that people will drive 10 different cars to see which one they like best. And if you're lucky enough to be able to afford therapy, and it's becoming at once less and less accessible and more and more accessible, because there's a lot of stuff online and there's a lot of stuff. I mean, the best therapist I ever had charged $100 a session. This is recently, you know, up until very recently. But I mean, that's not nothing, but it's for therapy.

• 53:37Speaker 00

  It's pretty good, but it's become more and more accessible. And I just think if you have the luxury to be able to find the right one for you, do that. I found the right one for me and he just changed my perspective in a lot of ways. And I, you want some greatest hits?

• 53:51Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 53:52Speaker 00

  Is it like?

• 53:53Tim Ferriss?

  I mean, if you've got, yeah, definitely. Sounds like you have a couple locked and loaded, so.

• 53:58Speaker 00

  I one, he said, um, have you ever predicted anything that's happened in your life? I go, well, yeah, I guess not. He goes, we're looking through a pinhole. You don't know what's coming up next. We have a fear of the unknown. That's why we tend to, and I'm very ritualistic and I, it's hard to get me to try new things, actually. And, and I try to break out of that, but we have a fear of the unknown. We have a fear of change, but like the truth is you should be just on the edge of your seat. What's gonna be next? You know, I don't know. So I thought that looking, we're looking through a pinhole. We don't know what's coming next. I like that.

• 54:43Speaker 00

  He changed my perspective in a lot of ways. And listen, I see this when I think about when I went into depression so fast. And I think about it in beautiful, wonderful ways as well. But I mean, you change your perspective by one degree. And the whole room looks different. The whole world looks different. And that's neat to me.

• 55:06Tim Ferriss?

  How often do you, when you've been in the sweet spot, whatever that means from a therapy perspective? How often are you doing sessions? Is it once a week, twice a week, once every two weeks? What is your cadence?

• 55:22Speaker 00

  I'm very erratic with it. I'll, I'll go once a week if I'm working through something and then I'll just, sometimes I'll go like months or a month or something and be like, you know what, I need to talk this out. Or I've gone for many years regularly and I, I kind of go.

• 55:41Speaker 00

  I'm starting actually with a new therapist. I have my second session on a Wednesday.

• 55:45Tim Ferriss?

  So why, why are you starting with the new therapist if you had a great therapist?

• 55:50Speaker 00

  He's so wonderful. Well, I could just say he's retiring, but I actually left a little before he retired and I love him so much.

• 56:01Speaker 00

  But I'm not giving him a path to redemption, or, but I, I, he doesn't need to be redeemed. I just. We had a session after I lost my friend to COVID, that I was, my writing partner on, on this musical, the music part. And I had my first session with him since spending three months in New York during the first three months of the pandemic. And I told him the whole story of, of losing Adam and just seemed, it was also, he texted me, oh my God, I think I have this thing. You know, and I'm like, oh my, I'm still sick. I can't get a test anywhere. This is crazy. I have like a really high fever, you know, and then, and then not getting any more texts. And he was in the hospital. I'm in the, then I get a text, I'm in the hospital with COVID, you know?

• 56:45Speaker 00

  And then the text stopped and then his girlfriend was reaching out to us and then he was gone. Cause it was so early. They put him on a ventilator and he was, anyway, um, I tell him the whole story. And I guess I don't have to not say this because it's my therapy. It's, you know, I feel like, but um, he was like, uh, well, what did it say on his death certificate? Because they're calling everything COVID now, you know, because they pay hospitals $30,000 to call something COVID. And like, he's like a COVID denier. And I don't care what he is, but he didn't need to bring it

• 57:22Speaker 00

  there. And I was pretty positive. The thing to say was, are you okay? It over. Gee, uh, I'm so sorry. And now I feel like someone online who he didn't say exactly what I needed him to say. And now I'm angry at him. I'm not angry at him. I love him and I'm so grateful for him, but I just needed to, uh, detach with love. And I have a very close friend who, who also knows him and said, just, you know, talk to him about it or whatever. And for some reason, I just don't feel, I don't feel angry about it. I just don't, I just want to kind of move on. I had so wonderful years with him and I don't need him to say, so, you know, well, listen, he's on his own thing and I'm so grateful for what he taught me, but I just kind of moved on.

• 58:05Tim Ferriss?

  You can get a lot from someone and a lot of value and they can do something you really disagree with. And

• 58:10Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 58:11Tim Ferriss?

  The latter does not necessarily negate the former, right? Which is hard to sometimes see out there on social media because

• 58:19Speaker 00

  Boy, yeah, it's, it's odd that we, we seem to be living in a world where people just expect you to, if you say something that wasn't what in their mind, what you should say,

• 58:32Speaker 00

  they're just so disappointed. And I, you know, I've always maintained personally, I go, hey, I'm not everyone's cup of tea and it's okay if you don't like what I say. And it's okay if you're not no longer a fan.

• 58:45Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah. I also think, I had the author and incredible, right? I mean, she's just an incredible historian and historical thinker, Doris Kearns Goodwin on the podcast. And I asked her if she thought leaders like, say, an Abraham Lincoln or an FDR or Churchill could exist, could actually be a Elected in today's day and age. And she said, no, because the veneer of perfection has to be, the facade has to be presented in such a way that, you know, if any of the kind of foibles and flaws of many of these leaders had been transparent or were transparent in today's day and age,

• 59:28Tim Ferriss?

  there's no way they would get elected, even though in other respects are really effective. So it's definitely, I don't know why today is the day I've decided to showcase all my dystopian concerns about the next five to 10 years.

• 59:42Speaker 00

  Bring it out in people.

• 59:45Tim Ferriss?

  Oh, but the Sarah Silverman podcast, I think you alluded to at least one of the reasons perhaps that you began the podcast, but why did you decide to start the podcast?

• 59:56Speaker 00

  The pandemic happened and I couldn't do stand up and I just felt like, where do I put all this? And it just made sense to do a podcast. I'd been resisting doing a podcast for so long and

• 1:00:08Tim Ferriss?

  Why had you been resisting it?

• 1:00:10Speaker 00

  Cause like everyone was doing it. I wasn't an OG like you, you know?

• 1:00:17Speaker 00

  And I really liked the idea of being able to talk to, to hear from people all over. And I, I'm shocked by the people who call from so many other countries. I didn't even, it occurred to me that this is just so, uh,

• 1:00:35Speaker 00

  so American, you know, it didn't occur to me that this would go to other countries, you know, it just didn't cross my mind. So that's been really neat, but just that people from all over are really calling in and it was, I was hoping that would happen and, and, um, and that I get to, it's voicemails. Every once in a while I go, I need to talk to this person more and we'll call, but it's mostly voicemails and the, but people will call in and follow up. And I've become kind of connected to this kind of community, but it's always changing and it's so different from my standup. First of all, like sometimes I listen back to the podcast, I go, There's no evidence of a comedian. Like, who do I think I am?

• 1:01:18Speaker 00

  Like, you know, but then I try to remember joy before I go on. I go, stop taking yourself seriously. It's so, once I, I take a little puff at night and then if I listen to some podcasts, I go, who the fuck do you think you are? It's like embarrassing to me, but then I go back and do it again. And people call in with questions and I really feel like I can help or at least say what I'm thinking, you know? It's morphed into this thing that I, I didn't expect and I didn't really know what it would be, but I knew I just wanted to talk and hear people's thoughts and opinions and then let that be the trajectory of the episode.

• 1:01:55Tim Ferriss?

  How do you choose which to speak to? Because you use, I was looking at your, your Twitter feed. You have an enormous New York City plus sized Twitter following, like 12, 12 point something million and you use SpeakPipe. But with that sized audience, you must get an absolute avalanche of different voice messages. How do you choose what to respond to?

• 1:02:20Speaker 00

  I've got two producers on the show, Raj and Diana, and they go through all of them and they bring me about 20. And, you know, I, I just, you know, they know I want different, you know, it becomes very, we all think alike kind of. So I'm always looking for another perspective or, you know, anything and they, they kind of know what I would look, look for. And we listen to them the night before, like tonight, because I record on Tuesdays and it comes out on Thursday. And I just go, oh yeah, that's good. You know, I kind of talked through like what I might say and I just, yeah, yeah, let's do that one. And I pick, I probably pick

• 1:03:00Speaker 00

  like 18 of the 20, you know, and, and then that night or the next morning, I'll kind of think about it more and make like an outline and just to have thoughts in my head. And then we record and sometimes I

• 1:03:20Speaker 00

  Respond the way I planned and sometimes I don't at all. I go a different direction, but we, I always record way more than we need. And so either throw stuff away or if it's evergreen, you know, could be used another week. It's not about like the news of the, this week or something. Well, we might save it because then I'm, I, when I work on the play in March, March, April, May, I'll probably be able to do some episodes in New York, but uh, I like to stockpile some that are brand new, but are, could be a month from now. Or so, um, and maybe you didn't want those exact details, but that's how it basically how it goes. And um,

• 1:03:59Tim Ferriss?

  Are you kidding? I love exact details.

• 1:04:00Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:04:01Tim Ferriss?

  I, I stock,

• 1:04:02Speaker 00

  Who am I talking to?

• 1:04:03Tim Ferriss?

  I stockpile exact details. So you're in good shape.

• 1:04:06Speaker 00

  So yeah, it's interesting because with my stand up, I'm a very slow honer. I'll work on a joke for months, months, months, months, maybe even a year, a year and, and I, I hone it so slowly, even though it may sound kind of in the moment, you know, I'm, I'm working on it inch by inch. And on the podcast, it's very immediate. It's messy. I'm loving now being able to, now that I can do stand up more and more, less and less and then more and more, depending. They're very different. I like doing odd jobs. I like the, doing different stuff. And when they converge, it's kind of neat. Where if I say something, I go, oh, that could maybe be a joke.

• 1:04:48Tim Ferriss?

  Has anything from the podcast popped in an unusual way for you where one topic or one episode unexpectedly got particular traction? Has, has anything been really surprising for you overall?

• 1:05:05Speaker 00

  Yeah, I'm always surprised. Well, you know, at first I was, I usually pick like three little clips to, to post on social media and

• 1:05:17Speaker 00

  Do we go with what works best? Or do we go with, you know, it's because it's a quandary because then you become...

• 1:05:24Tim Ferriss?

  Well, you get, you run into the same problem with second guessing the audience on stage, right? So this is, I want to, I want to dig into this because this is an important choice, right? Like, do you use what you think is going to get kind of the cheap applause, so to speak? Or like the easy layup? Or do you use something else? So how do you make that?

• 1:05:41Speaker 00

  But the irony is, and I don't know if this is irony, but I would post those clips that I thought were funny. And people are like, huh? And then like I post something that I go like, oh, this is like, you know, that's, that's opinionated, thinky, hippy dippy granola, you know, stuff that is also me, but, and, um, it, people really responded to the more serious stuff. There are some, a couple of communities that have become like motivational speakers and they find it incredibly obnoxious. And then I'm like, how am I different? Am I doing that?

• 1:06:22Speaker 00

  You know, but I, and I think maybe that's why, because people always go, why do you always say you're talking out of your ass? Or whatever I go, because I am. I'm, this is me in process, trying to make sense of life. And so my answers, there, there's no authority in my answers other than my own life experience and, and having not died. I've lived a long while. I hope to keep living a while and I have learned a bunch of stuff. It's a fine line and that I would be horrified if I saw that I was, had become that. And I think that's why I, and I, I really spot when people qualify things a lot. And now I'm doing it right now.

• 1:07:04Speaker 00

  And I do it on my show sometimes where I go, oh, I don't know, I'm talking out of my ass. What do I know? But I, I feel like it needs that qualifier just to prevent me feeling like I think I... I know best.

• 1:07:17Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:07:17Speaker 00

  But my mother was like that. She and I've become my mother, you know, she she couldn't help. But I mean, there were not enough comments cards in the world for my mother. She had so many. She felt she could correct so many things in just in the strangers around her or like, I mean, it was almost like a horror movie. Like you could pick up a book. There was a book she had that was like a guide to Santa Barbara. And it had like in pen corrections all throughout it, like grammar, any, you know, she. But now I've found that I've become that person that I'm like, I'm helping like she would always go, I'm helping, you know, and I would go, oh. But, you know, I was at like seven 11 and a kid, you know, 19 year old kid or something was buying

• 1:08:01Speaker 00

  like orange soda and Doritos and I just couldn't. Control myself and I was like, really? Almonds are the same price. This is what you're feeding your body. You know, I'm just like, oh, my God, Sarah.

• 1:08:15Tim Ferriss?

  I'm helping. I would love to ask you. There are there are few questions. I'll tell you what, I'll give you, I'll give you a twofer and you can pick which one you want to answer first.

• 1:08:23Speaker 00

  Okay.

• 1:08:24Tim Ferriss?

  So so the first is how you chose to become involved with I Smile Back? And the other is what you learned or any kind of lessons taken away from Gary Shandling?

• 1:08:39Speaker 00

  Oh, I'll just do both of them in order.

• 1:08:42Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:44Speaker 00

  I Smile Back, it was a book written by Amy Koppelman and she had sent it to my agent at the time, who's a real character. If you ever want to interview an agent. I don't know why you would want to, but he's fascinating. Named Michael Kibis. And he sent it to me and he said, she wants you to play this part. And I was like, she does? And I read it and and it was really interesting. And then she she and her friend Paige.

• 1:09:15Speaker 00

  Dylan wrote the screenplay and then they were very. I said, I'd do it. And they were really collaborative and we worked on a lot of it together and um.

• 1:09:28Speaker 00

  It was very hard. I mean, you know, I remember thinking, yeah, this is a really heavy movie, but it doesn't mean it's not going to be fun. Yeah, I'll act that it's the reality of the moment and then they'll say cut and we'll have, you know, be fun. And it was like, it was a good experience, but it was so, I didn't know that, you know, you have to have your 10,000, 100,000 hours in. Tom Hanks seems like he can just, I always heard he jokes around and he's, you know, he's like the belle of the, you know, he's like funny and all this. And then they say action and he's Captain Phillips. So I just thought, oh yeah, I don't have the experience to, to be able to access everything.

• 1:10:11Speaker 00

  Like, once I access those kinds of things, they're just on my lap, you know? So it was, I remember a friend would call and say, how's it going? And I go, it's, I don't, this is really a bummer, you know, like it just, I wasn't able to just separate. So it was just a lot. But I'm so glad I did it and it was an incredible experience and um, that movie's really relentless though, you know, even, what's the movie? Gabriele Citebe won the Oscar for Precious. Even Precious had moments of relief, you know? This movie's just like too much, but, but I, it was really fun to do and, and, and Amy Koppelman

• 1:10:53Speaker 00

  just directed her next book that was made into a movie, which is really cool. Anyway, so that was that.

• 1:10:59Tim Ferriss?

  I want to say two things real quick. So the first is, I thought you did an outstanding job. I think a lot of folks have exposure to your comedy, of course, and you as comic and so on, but less exposure to you in a dramatic capacity. And I thought you did a really outstanding job and a really nuanced job. So I wanted to say that. And I've had dinner with Amy before. She is a very smart, very observant, fascinating woman. So I wanted to, to also encourage people to check out her work. Gary Shandling.

• 1:11:39Speaker 00

  What did I learn from him? You know, I can't say enough about him. And really, if anyone's and for anyone who's listening, please watch Judd Apatow's two-part documentary on him.

• 1:11:51Tim Ferriss?

  What is it? Is it The Zen Diaries of Gary Shandling?

• 1:11:53Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:11:54Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:55Speaker 00

  Oh, it's so good. And but Gary was

• 1:12:01Speaker 00

  so generous and so he we played basketball at his house every Sunday. And there were star, you know, big celebrities that played. There were, you know, writers and systems, PAs that played, you know, it didn't matter. He assembled this ragtag group and they were all his friends equally, you know, like I said, like there, there are um, NCIS scripts that a writer would show to Gary and he'd give, you know, he put so much into helping writers, helping actors, everything he learned the hard way. He really offered up to us on a silver platter. And some things you got to learn the hard way, but so many things he

• 1:12:47Speaker 00

  he really, I learned about

• 1:12:51Speaker 00

  silence, about taking, you know, the in stand-up even, just the the moments in between the words and the currency in that, you know, currency sounds like a, you know, or the the specialness or that that you're saying something in those moments just as well and and to not be afraid of them, to not feel like you need to fill that empty space. And it's interesting learning that for stand-up, but then in life, you know, I hear my dad when we talk on the phone. Now we FaceTime and it's different. But when we talk on the phone and there would be like a dip in conversation, he'd go, um, uh, uh, um, um, um, uh, that fear

• 1:13:35Speaker 00

  of silence or, you know, is is so real in people for, you know, and I

• 1:13:43Speaker 00

  I learned that from him. It's very interesting. And, you know, he was very, he was a studied Buddhism. He was a Buddhist. He was, he, but it wasn't because he was naturally that way. It's because he was riddled and he needed it. And that's all of us. And trying to just be honest and get to the core of, you know, he kept a journal, which, you know, I think your comedy notebook is half journal. And he would say, just be Gary Shandling, whatever that is, on stage, you know, or like all these things. And, and Judd helped clean out his house and stuff and, and would post pictures of a lot of his journal pages

• 1:14:21Speaker 00

  that are, I don't think he would be upset about it. Were, are so revealing and so helpful. He wasn't perfect, but he was in search of. And in just even learning that or watching that in him was so fortifying and, and helpful.

• 1:14:42Tim Ferriss?

  Here's a question that is sometimes directly leading to a dead end, but that, that's on me. So I'll try it. Just be Gary Shandling made me think of this. So if you could put a message, any message could be a quote, could be an image, could be anything really, on a billboard, metaphorically speaking, just to get it out to hundreds of millions, billions of people, what might you put on that billboard?

• 1:15:09Speaker 00

  Two things come to mind. One is the story about Fred Phelps, who started the Westboro Baptist Church. You know, they sort of

• 1:15:20Tim Ferriss?

  I don't know this story.

• 1:15:22Speaker 00

  Oh, oh, so he started the Westboro Baptist Church. You've got to interview Meghan Phelps Roper.

• 1:15:28Tim Ferriss?

  All right.

• 1:15:28Speaker 00

  She grew up in the Westboro Baptist Church and her story is amazing. She's amazing.

• 1:15:38Speaker 00

  Her change and the ways in which she didn't change, that she was always this beautiful person, but to grow up in something and believe it with your whole heart. And anyway, her story's incredible. Fred Phelps, her grandfather, started the Westboro Baptist Church. And of course, these are the people that show up to funerals with signs that say God hates fags. And, you know, they're those people. And people showed up at his funeral with signs that said, sorry for your loss.

• 1:16:12Tim Ferriss?

  Hmm.

• 1:16:13Speaker 00

  And I just thought that was the most beautiful act of protest I've ever heard. So and for some reason, I feel like that on a billboard would be useful for everyone in some way.

• 1:16:32Tim Ferriss?

  I don't want to chew up too much of your time, Sarah. I'm having a great time. Is there anything else that you would like to talk about? Is there anything else that you would like to comment on? Any suggestions you'd like to make? Anything you'd like to point people's attention to that comes to mind?

• 1:16:52Speaker 00

  I'll say what my auntie Martha told me. Grab joy where you can get it. Grab joy where you find it. I was single and I was in DC and I was supposed to go to LA for home to LA for a friend's memorial service. Comedians kill themselves a lot. And I kind of wanted to go back to New York to see this guy I was dating. And I go, I feel guilty. She goes, go to New York. Grab joy where you can get it. Your friend is gone. You can honor him in your mind, you know, whatever, other ways.

• 1:17:28Tim Ferriss?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:29Speaker 00

  Although comedian memorials are really fun.

• 1:17:36Tim Ferriss?

  Okay, I can't let that sit. So tell me more. What makes them fun?

• 1:17:40Speaker 00

  Well, because you're, I find funerals to be pretty fun usually. You know, even if you're sobbing, right? You're with a group of people that loved this person, talking about the, the greatest hits of, of who they were and how they impacted everyone. And with comedians, I mean, I mean, Gary's, Gary Shaly's memorial was amazing. You're laughing and crying. Kevin Nealon, for lack of a better word, closed the, the show, the memorial. And he was sobbing and he was killing. I mean, and it was just all real and true. But afterwards, when everyone goes their separate ways and lives life is when you grief

• 1:18:25Speaker 00

  punches you in the face, you know, and you're at line at Ralph's, you know, two weeks later. But, but you're just hearing the funniest stories and the greatest things they wrote and said and, and it's, it is a celebration. I think that's a, you know.

• 1:18:42Tim Ferriss?

  Uh, Sarah Kate Silverman, where's the Kate from?

• 1:18:45Speaker 00

  I don't know. I, I think I was, I was supposed to be named Kate Sarah Silverman. And my Nana said, no, I know someone named Kate. And she's, I don't like her or something. So they go, all right, well, we'll say Sarah Kate. And that's the amazing story of my, uh, if I was boy, if I was a boy, I know I was gonna be John Robert after the Kennedys.

• 1:19:09Tim Ferriss?

  Wow, John Robert. I think Sarah Kate works. I like it.

• 1:19:13Speaker 00

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Tim Ferriss?

  Sarah Kate Silverman, at Sarah K Silverman on Twitter. Thank you so much for taking the time. People should absolutely check out the Sarah Silverman podcast, where each week you can find joy where you can get it, one bite sized audio morsel at a time. And your book, uh, your first book memoir is The Bedwetter, Stories of Courage, Redemption and Pee.

• 1:19:39Speaker 00

  Oh, yeah, that's from 2010.

• 1:19:41Tim Ferriss?

  It is from 2010.

• 1:19:42Speaker 00

  The musical is called The Bedwetter. And it's, it's, um, the musical is called The Bedwetter. And it comes out, previews start in April at the Atlantic Theater in New York. And that is... Based on the book, but it's just the year I was 10 and I'm not in it. There's a little, little pint sized incredible me. I mean, the actress is incredible.

• 1:20:06Tim Ferriss?

  Well, congratulations. I know that's been a long time in the making. I know that your dad has been counting down the days as, as best I can tell.

• 1:20:15Speaker 00

  Yes, he has. He's like, how much longer do I need to stay alive?

• 1:20:21Tim Ferriss?

  And it's here. It's here in, in just a few months, fingers crossed. And thank you so much for taking the time, Sarah. I really enjoyed the conversation and getting to know you, not just through doing the homework and research for the conversation, but having the conversation itself. And I hope that we get to have another conversation sometime and appreciate it.

• 1:20:44Speaker 00

  Me too.

• 1:20:46Tim Ferriss?

  And for everybody listening, we will put links to everything in the show notes and you can find that at tim.blog/podcast. And until next time, thank you for tuning in.

• 1:20:55Speaker 00

  Bye.

• 1:20:56Tim Ferriss?

  Hey guys, this is Tim again. Just one more thing before you take off and that is Five Bullet Friday. You enjoy getting a short email from me every Friday that provides a little fun before the weekend. Between one and a half and two million people subscribe to my free newsletter, my super short newsletter called Five Bullet Friday. Easy to sign up, easy to cancel. It is basically a half page that I send out every Friday to share the coolest things I've found or discovered or have started exploring over that week. It's kind of like my diary of cool things. It often includes articles I'm reading, books I'm reading, albums perhaps, gadgets, gizmos, all sorts of tech tricks and so on. They get sent to me by my friends, including a lot of podcast guests.

• 1:21:39Tim Ferriss?

  And these strange esoteric things end up in my field and then I test them and then I share them with you. So if that sounds fun, again, it's very short, a little tiny bite of goodness before you head off for the weekend, something to think about. If you'd like to try it out, just go to tim.blog/friday, type that into your browser, tim.blog/friday, drop in your email and you'll get the very next one. Thanks for listening.

• 1:22:06Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Athletic Greens. I get asked all the time what I would take if I could only take one supplement. I've asked this for years. The answer is invariably AG1 by Athletic Greens. I view it as all-in-one nutritional insurance. So you can cover your bases. Traveling, if you're busy, you're not sure if your meals are where they should be. It covers your bases. I've recommended it since The Four Hour Body, which was god eons ago, 2010, and I did not get paid to do so. With approximately 75 vitamins, minerals, and whole food source ingredients, you'll be hard pressed to find a more nutrient-dense formula on the market. It has a multivitamin, multimineral, greens complex, probiotics and prebiotics for gut

• 1:22:49Tim Ferriss?

  health, an immunity formula, digestive enzymes, and adaptogens. You get the idea. It is very, very comprehensive. And I do my best, of course, to focus on nutrient-dense, proper meals. But sometimes you're busy, sometimes you're traveling, sometimes you just want to make sure that you're getting what you need. AG1 makes it easy to get a lot of nutrition when whole foods aren't readily available. It's also NSF certified for sport, making it safe for competitive athletes, as what's on the label is in the powder. It's the ultimate all-in-one nutritional supplement bundle in one easy scoop. Right now Athletic Greens is giving my audience a special offer on top of their all-in-one

• 1:23:30Tim Ferriss?

  formula, which is a free vitamin D supplement and five free travel packs with your first subscription purchase. Many of us are deficient in vitamin D. I've found that true for myself, which is usually produced in our bodies from sun exposure. So adding a vitamin D supplement to your daily routine is a great option for additional immune support. Support your immunity, gut health, and energy by visiting athleticgreens.com/tim. You'll receive up to a year's supply of vitamin D and five free travel packs with your subscription. Again, that's athleticgreens.com/tim.

• 1:24:06Tim Ferriss?

  This episode is brought to you by Helium 10. Helium 10, one zero, is an all-in-one software suite designed to help entrepreneurs launch, manage, and scale profitable e-commerce businesses on Amazon as well as on Walmart.com. So whether you're an entrepreneur who wants to start a business on your own terms, or you want to scale your existing e-commerce operations, Helium 10 can help. They process more than 2 billion data points daily. That's a lot of data. Have a robust 450-plus million ASIN database and provide at-a-glance analytics like seasonal transfer products, profit estimates, and more. ASIN, just so you know, that's kind of Amazon SKU code source, somewhat like an ISBN.

• 1:24:49Tim Ferriss?

  So they can really provide, that's Helium 10, intelligence across many, many different products and product categories, so you can make the best decisions possible. They also have educational resources, award-winning training courses, free webinars, podcasts, and community support. I did a bunch of vetting on these guys with Help from All of You, actually, looking for recommendations, how much you would recommend them, and I've been very impressed with the feedback I've seen on social media from their community of 1 million-plus users. So, they cleared the hurdle, and here they are. If you are an aspiring entrepreneur, Helium 10 will teach you how to build a thriving e-commerce business from A to Z. You'll be able to tap into Amazon's existing customer base, product demand, and shipping

• 1:25:34Tim Ferriss?

  infrastructure to launch your business. And just as a reminder, Amazon will handle all shipping and returns for you. And if you want to take your business to the next level, Helium 10's community of experts, cutting-edge strategies, and advanced trainings led by multimillion-dollar sellers, as well as their tools, will help you scale, save time, and improve your customers' experiences, plus manage your financial health, ad spend, and much more. Join more than 1 million Helium 10 users worldwide by signing up for a free account at helium10.com/tim. That is helium10.com/tim. Sign up for free at H-E-L-I-U-M one zero dot com slash tim.