#975 Jason Williams On Timeless Principles To Help You Succeed During A Bad Economy

Jason Williams is an entrepreneur, investor, business partner of mine and the author of the book "Bitcoin : Hard Money You Can’t F*ck With" In this conversation, we discuss the current state of the market and economic concerns. Jason helps to provide excellent knowledge on his investment strategies during this time of uncertainty. He also provides additional advice as to how you can build your skills and wealth, even during a bad economy. ======================= LMAX Digital - the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading & custodial services - offers clients a regulated, transparent and secure trading environment, together with the deepest pool of crypto liquidity. LMAX Digital is also a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading analytics platforms. LMAX Digital - secure, liquid, trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to https://www.eightsleep.com/Pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, and the UK. ======================= The world's 2nd largest crypto exchange, OKEx, has dropped the "E" to become OKX, reflecting its evolution from a traditional crypto exchange to a comprehensive, cross-platform crypto services provider. With OKX's decentralized platform and Web3 wallet, MetaX, you have full custody over your crypto. Explore DeFi, NFTs and play-to-earning gaming with the world's most powerful crypto exchange. Visit OKX.com to learn more. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Jason Williams is an entrepreneur and investor, is also a very good friend of mine and a partner on a number of different business initiatives. In this conversation, we talk about how you can prepare for a recession, both as a business owner and in your personal financial life. I always enjoy these conversations with Jason, and I hope you enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode though, I first want to talk about our sponsors. First up is LMAX Digital, the number one institutional crypto exchange. They offer clients the deepest pool of crypto liquidity on the planet, underscored by 100% uptime track record through volatility spikes. They leverage LMAX Group's liquidity relationships and ultra-low

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  latency technology. LMAX Digital is the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading and custodial services. If you've never heard of LMAX Digital, it's probably because you are not an institution. They have no retail, only institutions. They feature a central limit-order book streaming spot Bitcoin, Ether, Litecoin, and Bitcoin Cash, all paired with US Dollars, Euro, and Yen. LMAX Digital, they're secure, they're liquid, and they're trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp. Again, LMAXdigital.com/pomp. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep is the single best product that I have purchased over the last three years. It completely changed my life. I'm not joking,

• 1:26Anthony Pompliano?

  pay attention. The Pod Pro cover, which goes over your mattress by Eight Sleep, is the most advanced solution on the market for thermal regulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. You can go to eightsleep.com/pomp to check out the Pod Pro cover, and you save $150 at checkout. They currently ship within the United States, Canada, and the UK. Now I told you, it changed my life. It helps me sleep deeper, helps me sleep longer. I feel much more refreshed, and I have better energy. You want to know how I have relentless energy every single day? Because I sleep on an Eight Sleep. Seriously, go check it out, eightsleep.com/pomp today. This episode is brought to you by OKX. OKEX has dropped the E to become OKX.

• 2:10Anthony Pompliano?

  In 2017 with a mission to deliver a cutting edge crypto trading experience. OKX, the world's second largest crypto exchange by trading volume, has since expanded its scope alongside the wider industry, adding features from all corners of crypto. If EX is about exchange, X is about intersections. Cross-chain, cross-functional, cross-platform, an interoperable future that's not siloed into isolated platforms and blockchains. The name change and the new look and feel represent OKX's ongoing move towards decentralized finance. With OKX's decentralized platform and Web3 wallet, MetaX, you have full custody over your crypto. Connect MetaX in your browser or within the OKX app to explore DeFi, NFTs, and play to earning gaming,

• 2:56Anthony Pompliano?

  the world's most powerful crypto exchange. Whether you're just learning about crypto, you're a seasoned DeFi DJ, an NFT enthusiast, or a pro trader, you're all invited to a better future. Go check it out today and let me know what you think.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 3:33Anthony Pompliano?

  Jason, my friend, how are you?

• 3:36Speaker 02

  What's going on, man? Can you hear me?

• 3:37Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I'm doing great. How are you?

• 3:39Speaker 02

  Good, good. What do you guys have, a new structure to the show or something?

• 3:41Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, we got a schedule. If people don't stay on the schedule, I just like kick them off. It's just like, let's go, right? We, it's gotta be a little ruthless around here. What I want to talk to you about is, there's a lot of people in the comments or I've seen on Twitter, a couple of people have responded to me via email saying, hey, I hear all this talk about a potential recession. Maybe it comes, maybe it doesn't, but I don't know what I should do. Either as a business owner or in my personal life, how should I think about changes? And then how should I think about things I shouldn't change? When you think about your career, you've owned businesses, you've scaled businesses through bad times. Obviously, you've navigated them personally. What are some of the things that people should be considering right now as we're looking at a potential recession?

• 4:26Speaker 02

  Well, I think it's fun to explore this kind of event and think about it offensively and defensively. So when you reached out to me this morning and you you asked if we could talk about this, I think that's kind of how I frame it. So like we can make a defensive category and start discussing that. And then we can talk about like, how do you prosper regardless of political party in the White House? Or whether we're in a recession, etc. So you want to make sure that you're doing things that kind of make money and grow your net worth regardless of those events. So first and foremost, from like a defensive position, I would say live within your means.

• 5:10Speaker 02

  I think that's a really important thing and an important discipline that I've tried to deploy over 20, 25 years of being a business. I had money before Bitcoin and I've done well with Bitcoin, etc. But, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years. So I don't know if your followers or the viewers know kind of my backstory. But, you know, I may not look like much, but that's all by design. So first, live within your means. That starts with kind of getting out of debt. You know, using good debt is a strategy you want to deploy.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  But you also want to take a look at all of your debt during these times when you're going to get, if you have variable interest rates, those interest rates are going to rise now. So you need to make sure that you structure that debt well. So if you can pay off debt, that's not good debt. I would do that. I would also look to restructure debt that's not favorable or variable. And use debt to income ratios to your advantage. What that means is

• 6:18Speaker 02

  You want to make sure you make more money than you spend. A lot of people don't get this right, right? You want to make more money than you spend. And you want the amount of money that you make to far outweigh the amount that you spend. And remember this, during times of economic need, banks only lend money to those people who don't need the money. Right? So those people who don't need the money get the best terms. They get the money from the banks. And those times that you need a loan from a bank, you will not get it, or you will get the worst terms possible. So that's the first kind of defensive play. What do you think, man?

• 7:01Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, I think that this is dead on of just like the timeless financial principles end up being applied and almost like they're exposed or exaggerated in times of downturn. And so the idea of just like living within your means, you should do it in good times or bad times, but it becomes really, really important in the bad times. And then your also other point around just like the more that you are disciplined and live within your means, the better financial position you're in, which then means that you have optionality during bad times. And so whether that's loans, whether that's you can go on offense, you can do all these different things. It becomes really, really interesting because I think a lot of people just say, hey, in the good times, I want to get rich. And then in the bad times, like, oh, I gotta, you know, all of a sudden scramble and figure it out. So I think that's a great point. What else do you think people should be doing

• 7:46Anthony Pompliano?

  from like a defensive standpoint, other than just living within their means?

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this is the transition moment between offense and defense. I believe that you should have multiple streams of income. And here, here's where that becomes valuable. If you're someone that has multiple jobs, let's say, I have nine jobs at this moment, nine jobs, and multiple full-time jobs. If I don't like one of the full-time jobs, I can get rid of it. And if one of those full-time jobs don't like me, they can get rid of me. But it doesn't affect me as badly as if I only had one. And then if you structure these multiple streams of income to be, you know, stocks or investments that pay dividends, real estate,

• 8:34Speaker 02

  that's rental properties, other passive sorts of of income. You can really diversify. This is one of the the spaces that I like to talk about diversification. A diversified revenue is a stronger revenue, in my opinion. So taking on more jobs, taking more more responsibility, having assets that pay you dividends, both passive and actively, rental properties, etc. I love that strategy. Going into a recession, taking that list of nine jobs that I have and always pressure testing them, saying, am I doing the right thing, the most effective thing with my most valuable resource, which is my time?

• 9:19Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about, let's say, the passive income, right? How diversified do you think somebody should be? Is this something where like, hey, if you have two different versions of passive income, then you're probably good? Or do you try to get as many as possible? Like, what like, how do you just think about passive income in these times?

• 9:37Speaker 02

  You know, I don't want to be a mile wide and an inch deep, but I do like to have a diversified, a diversified passive income strategy. So I do like real estate. Real estate does really, really well traditionally in in these kind of inflationary times, even during a recession. I like to have multiple jobs, you know, whether it's consultant work or stuff I'm pulling a lever and actually making money for. I think it's really important. And I think diversifying them is interesting. For someone like me, who likes to play around in different like investment themes, it's natural whether I'm making money in Bitcoin mining,

• 10:23Speaker 02

  power generation, trading commodities, real estate. It feels very natural to me. And and some of your viewers that have gone through your evolution pump, which, you know, you are early stage venture guy, big time Bitcoin. Now you're talking about business and investing across all these thematic verticals. I think your listeners are probably interested in that as well.

• 10:46Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, one of the things that I think folks usually forget is in order to invest, let's say that you're not in the investment business, you don't manage other people's money, etc., a key part to investing is actually where do you get the money to invest? And, you know, plenty of people will say, oh, like, all these folks that I see out there in the media, etc., they just inherited it, right? Well, usually what ends up happening is that majority of folks, like 80% of millionaires inherited $0 in America. And so those 80% of millionaires, they end up actually figuring out either one, building a business, or they may be a lawyer or a doctor, you know, have some level of high income as well. But being able to make money before you actually have money to invest is a really important part. And it always feels like, especially young people today, with the gamification of some

• 11:31Anthony Pompliano?

  of the markets and kind of the meme stocks, etc., everyone wants to go from, I don't have a job, I don't have any money, to I'm an investor. But actually, historically, it's been, go build a business to get money, or go get a high-paying job to get money, and then, once you have money, then you become an investor, right?

• 11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah, I love this point, and it reminds me of one of my favorite books by Robert Kiyosaki, it's Cash Flow Quadrants. So Cash Flow Quadrants, if you haven't read it, it kind of, it lays into what Pom's talking about. In the four quadrants, you have being an employee. An employee has the safest position, has benefits, has small amount of responsibility, very structured, and as long as the boss makes the right decisions and you do what the boss says, you have a job. Then there's an evolution. People go to college, and they become educated, and you move into this situation where you become self-employed.

• 12:32Speaker 02

  And it's not always like four-year masters, whatever, it could be technical school, or you could be entrepreneurial. But the other quadrant across from it is self-employment, and it's a very dangerous position. So there's doctors, lawyers, plumbers, etc. Most of the time, those guys eat what they kill, and they are responsible to pay the bills, to pay the employees, or pay themselves. And usually, you're paying yourself last in that situation. It's a great Kind of misnomer, I believe, or it's kind of the position that a lot of us were sold by our

• 13:10Speaker 02

  parents, you know, go to school, get a career and get a high paying job. That high paying job as doctors and lawyers was kind of in this self employment bucket and a lot of those people get disenfranchised there, sell their practices, take on a lot of risk. And so you need to be disciplined in that self employment bucket and build a real business and get into business ownership. Real business ownership has reproducible systems. It leverages time so that it's not just you getting paid per hour per widget, but you have people getting paid per hour per widget and

• 13:53Speaker 02

  they're paying you. So true business ownership is the kind of evolution and it's a much safer, higher responsibility position. And then finally, the last quadrant's investor and there is where you get to either use your money or other people's money and monetize your successes, whether it's your reputation or your own money. As an investor, you get to monetize that. It takes time.

• 14:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. When you think about that quadrant, I've read that book before and it's fantastic book. I think a lot of it as left side, right side. Like the left side of the quadrant is basically a good starting point, a place to start your career, a place to start to build some wealth. But really, the unlocking is getting to the right side. Either owning a business which isn't relying on you every single day, or being an investor where your capital can obviously go to work and not be relying on you either. It reminds me a lot, I forget, maybe it was a rapper who said like, I think of my dollars as soldiers. I gotta put them, you know, those bad boys out on the battlefield and they gotta bring me back more soldiers. Right? Like, how do I go deploy the money? When you think about these recessionary type times, whether we actually go into one or

• 15:02Anthony Pompliano?

  not, what are some things that you look at from an asset class standpoint? Do you run to value stocks? Are there other types of assets that you look at that tend to do really well through these periods?

• 15:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, this is a really good question. So, you know, I try to do what the billionaires or the real smart people do. So, you know, in times of a recession, I was reading a Bloomberg study billionaires run to blue chip art, which may sound shocking to you, but billionaires, some billionaires in this, in this poll had 10 to 30% of their, of their allocation and their portfolio into blue chip art. And so I find that to be wild, like absolutely wild. I love real estate during this time and real estate also includes Bitcoin. So I look at

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Bitcoin as property and, and I've said to you all, not on the show, but that I like to use leverage to buy Bitcoin. So I've never leveraged my Bitcoin. I've rehypothecated it, but I have been tapping my real estate and borrowing against it to buy Bitcoin. And some people are like, that's a terrible trade. You're going to get wrecked. You know, why are you offering that advice to people? Well, I look at it like this. Again, if I have an asset like a piece of property that's paid off and it's appreciating, hopefully, maybe it's earning, you know, it's rented or whatever, and I can get a little bit of

• 16:31Speaker 02

  leverage, 50% LTV and structure that debt. It's not going to get margin called if I can service the debt. I understand it. I can fix it and I can buy Bitcoin. I like that strategy very much and it's worked. I was recommending it at Bitcoin 20,000, 30,000, 50,000. It's literally just DCA and one Bitcoin equals one Bitcoin. I like the strategy. Some people may not understand it. I like it even better than borrowing against Bitcoin to buy more Bitcoin.

• 17:03Anthony Pompliano?

  What you're really talking about here is this idea of that there's a wealth strategy known as buy, borrow, die. And this is like, you know, level 301, 401 of kind of wealth creation. But the whole idea behind buy, borrow and die is when you buy assets, you never want Want to sell them. You want to let them just continue to compound and grow in value for as long as possible. Then, as that is occurring, you borrow against those assets to get cash. There's no income tax when you borrow it, and you can use those funds for either consumption in your everyday kind of living expenses, or you can use it to go and make more investments.

• 17:43Anthony Pompliano?

  And then you literally continue to hold those assets forever until you die. And so this idea of buy, borrow, die ends up being a strategy that the wealthiest people use very, very well. Now, they also do it because they understand the assets. They have people who can underwrite the risks that they're taking, etc. But that is kind of a very complicated or complex version of what you're talking about, which is just you have these pieces of real estate, they're paid off, and now all you're doing is you're able to tap liquidity from them, keep the debt load into an area where it's manageable, you can service it without any sort of pain or issue. And then what you do with that money, whether you go and you buy a vacation home, you buy a car, or you make an investment, it's really up to what you want

• 18:28Anthony Pompliano?

  to do with that capital, right?

• 18:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's exactly right. That's exactly right. And it's something that I challenge your listeners to just do a mental model, see what, see how it feels to you, and remember the other things that I've talked about. You have to manage your debt-to-income ratios, you have to be able to service this debt, and you're risking those assets, right? These are assets that you've paid off. Now you're leaning against them. But in times of kind of a recession, there may be things that you can buy on a discount, and that's where you you become offensive in the strategy, and you can really create a lot of wealth for yourself. I sent you a infographic about farmland. I'm enamored with it. I went back

• 19:11Speaker 02

  and looked at at a chart that compared farmland from, I think, 1995 to 2021, and put farmland against gold, real estate, bonds, and

• 19:28Speaker 02

  It's really interesting to look at the, I think, farmland from 1995 till today, 20x. So if you invested $1,000, you're at 20,000. Real estate and stocks 10x and gold and bonds 5x. I didn't put Bitcoin against it, but I would expect that since Bitcoin's inception, it probably outperformed all of this. But farmland is amazing. It's like the original peer-to-peer transfer stuff. And quite surprisingly, once you start to look into farmland, a lot of the billionaires, a lot of the big names are purchasing this stuff. Jeff Bezos, in particular, has been snatching up farmland across the United States.

• 20:10Speaker 02

  And if you try to go macro with farmland, you start to think about how many people are interested in these kind of, you know, free-roaming, farm-raised, organic, you know, consumables. These, I think that owning farmland and producing food, producing other commodities on it is really, really interesting. You may not be a farmer, but you can lease out this land and earn income on it. And it's usually quite cheap, the land. You're not buying things for 100,000s of dollars an acre. You're buying things for $10,000 an acre or something like that.

• 20:50Anthony Pompliano?

  How much of the value that's created by owning farmland from an investment standpoint is just the land itself? And there's only so much land, you know, in the United States, and so you kind of own a scarce asset in that regard versus there's actual productivity that occurs. So you're making money on whatever the thing that is being farmed on the land? Is it a combination of both? Is it just buy and hold for a long period of time and then somebody wants to pay you more for it later? Like, how does that work?

• 21:16Speaker 02

  Yeah, man, I look at it like where, what is it, the 1600s, when, you know, Manhattan was established or something like that? Just think of farmland like Manhattan, and you're early. You're there. You know, how much is a city block gonna be worth? It's not worth a lot right now, but if you can buy it and you can hold it in perpetuity, and you can leverage it, land leases, etc. It could be worth a lot. So I don't know, like in the state I live in, there's farmland everywhere. It's shocking to me that there is farmland. And I look at it as both an appreciating asset, a tax strategy,

• 21:56Speaker 02

  and an income-producing asset. So I look at it like all three, punk.

• 22:02Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And so when you start to think about other things that you can do, how much of the investing portfolio do you begin to rebalance or concentrate in times of these recessionary periods versus you're thinking more offensively like, hey, am I able to get access to cash and go acquire more assets? It's almost expanding your portfolio. Is it a contraction mentality or an expansion mentality?

• 22:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, I try to stay in a growth mentality at all times. Like, you know, I want to add work on yourself because I think that's really important during times of recession. You're under macro stress usually. And, you know, I think about these assets all the time. When you said, you know, there was some rapper that says that he focuses on his money, blah, blah, blah. I said that. I was the one who said, I look at my money and I make sure my money is working every day. I'm the one who said that. I don't know who, what rapper, what you're talking about. I said that. Every day I look at my money and I say, go to work, money. I look at all my assets and I make sure they're working because I'm working. Are you working? So back to what I'm saying.

• 23:10Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about putting your money to work, how do you think about cash today? Do you try to sit with some percentage of your portfolio in cash? Or do you try to be fully invested? Like, how do you think about kind of the rainy day fund? Or the risk management that a lot of people talk about?

• 23:29Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say I'm pretty cash poor. I have some assets that are liquid, but I don't, I don't keep a lot of cash. So historically, people would keep, you know, a few months of working capital that they had access to. I like to have access to lines of credit. So that's something that I work on during like the pre-recessionary period. I start contacting banks and I say, hey, can I get a line of credit established on this particular property? And I work to structure it in a very strategic way. I want it to exist. If I tap it, it can get structured into long-term debt, not a, not a variable interest rate. Remember, if you don't need the money, you can get it.

• 24:13Speaker 02

  But when you need it, it won't be available. So you need to work on that stuff now. So I use those type of models to, to offset sitting on a hoard of cash. So that I can get maximum kind of efficiency on my investments, specifically cash. You know, I really worry about inflation. If you've read my book, you know, you know that I'm bullish on Bitcoin and, and I'm aggressive with Bitcoin. A lot of people that, that, that follow me or don't follow me, don't like my rehypothecation strategies that I've used with Bitcoin. I don't leverage against it, but I do lend it out.

• 24:55Anthony Pompliano?

  When you think about types of businesses that people should look at right now, how much of, you know, if I'm a young person, like go into the tech industry, try to build a startup versus go and start a plumbing business? Or some sort of like locally based, you know, many people would consider like an SMB type opportunity. Like, how do you think about, if you could go back and you were 22 years old? And you were looking at the current economic environment, like, how would you evaluate where to go and what to do?

• 25:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think there's some like careers that are pretty economically insulated. Like they persist and they thrive regardless of the economic downtrends. So I think healthcare for one is an excellent place to focus your time. Engineering is another. I think coding and computer science is massive right now. So those are, those are three places I would, that I would focus. I also wanted to speak a little bit with you about this point. You know, I've said this to you before that like your, your twenties are the time you get your education. Your thirties are the time that you monetize your, your education and your forties are

• 26:10Speaker 02

  when you monetize your reputation. I think those timelines have been compressed, but I also find a lot of millennials are very frustrated that they're not able to get the street cred because they've had this democratization of information or maybe some early success, but they don't have the gray hair or the, the reputation. And some people are, are less, I guess, aggressive in regards to backing them. But I, I like that, that kind of mental model and, and I think, I think it's challenging for young people right now. Also, I think trade schools are really cool. I went to a trade school, so I didn't go to medical school.

• 26:55Speaker 02

  I went to PA school. So it was like a two-year program to be a like half doctor. And, and I love trade schools. So I think, you know, refrigeration repair, AC repair, electrician, plumber, these, these, these jobs can turn into careers, can turn into small businesses, can turn into big businesses. And, and I think there's a pathway to being investors and being free from a lot of the oppression of debt and, and some of the, the kind of things our parents faced.

• 27:30Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah. How do you think about Bitcoin in this current macro environment? It's come down, you know, I don't know, 50% give or take on any given day. Is it something where you continue to think that the same, you know, kind of investment thesis holds? Have you changed your mind on anything? Are you doing anything different in kind of the Bitcoin crypto world?

• 27:52Speaker 02

  No, like, you know, I'm still bullish on Bitcoin. If you're looking at stocks, bonds, commodities, you know, the full stack of things that you can invest in. I've taken like gold out of the equation. So I'm not a buyer of gold and I have Bitcoin in that position. And then Bitcoin consumes a larger position of some of the other positions in my asset allocation. Still very, very bullish on Bitcoin. I haven't posted large purchases in the last few months, simply because the compliance officers have told me I'm not allowed to do that anymore.

• 28:32Anthony Pompliano?

  Hey, the compliance people, they make the rules. We just do our best to follow them. The, the last question I have for you is, uh, looking back, you obviously navigated the 2008, 2009 crisis. You expertly navigated the 2020 recession, although it only lasted for about 45 days. What are some of your takeaways in terms of what people should be paying attention to right now? And then also like things that they can learn as they go through this experience. So do you have any, you know, major lessons learned or takeaways from the past ones as a business owner and investor that you navigated?

• 29:08Speaker 02

  Yeah, and Pom, I would go all the way back to September 11th, 2001, because, you know, I started FastMed, the medical business in, in November of 2001. So can you imagine?

• 29:23Anthony Pompliano?

  Interesting.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  I was, yeah, I was building a business. I was borrowing money. I was 26 years old. I had no, no wealth, nothing. I had paper in the form of an education, but I had no money. And then the economic devastation of September 11th occurred. Banks started to withdraw access to capital and I started my first business during that. So I was kind of born out of tremendous chaos and global instability and war. And we've essentially been in perpetual war since that time, I believe.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Until recently. So for me, I don't chase fast nickels. I'd like to make slow dimes. And I like to build things of substance, although I've built a number of businesses. I wouldn't even say I'm a serial entrepreneur. I like to find a big problem and spend time trying to solve it. And that's part of the kind of work on yourself, like get your education. There's a democratization of information at this point. You can get all the information you need. Go get it. If you want to build a business, take the risk while you're young and you don't have dependents. And and you still have strength, you know, take care of your health and wellness.

• 30:44Speaker 02

  It's really important because can't run a marathon or a marathon every four days if you're not, if you're not fit. But the things I've learned over time are try to fulfill your commitments to people. Try to be consistent and work with integrity. You don't always get it right. Hold on. Even if you feel like you're at the 11th hour and you're about to fail. Because that kind of breakthrough moment always happens at the moment that you're about to give up. So hold on just a little longer. And try to surround yourself with people that are way smarter than you. Don't be afraid to change your mind, you know, reserve the right to change your mind at any time.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  It's kept me out of a lot of trouble. Don't be afraid to say you're wrong. Don't be afraid to say you're sorry. You know, all of these things, they're very challenging. They sound so simple, but most people can't do it. Most people can't recognize when they're wrong and do it quickly. You know, fail fast, fail often, fail small. A lot of this stuff sounds cliche, but you know, after being in business for 20 plus years. You know, I was on a very heated call just before I came on this show, working with people who I respect, you know, and, and it's hard. These people are smart. They have different opinions. We're dealing with a lot of money. And, uh, you know, it takes reasonableness,

• 32:12Speaker 02

  and a return to why you all agreed to work together, you know, maintaining integrity, remembering, you know, who everyone is. Like, all these things take a tremendous amount of emotional maturity. Um, but, you know, the, these are things that I've learned over many, many years working.

• 32:31Anthony Pompliano?

  I think that's fantastic advice. Uh, before we let you go, where should we send people to, uh, to buy your book and then also find you on the internet?

• 32:40Speaker 02

  Well, my book's not available in Barnes and Noble. It's not available in, uh, any stores. Uh, it's shocking to me, Pop. It's shocking to me. I don't understand how a book, the number one best seller in international finance, the number one best seller in macroeconomics, the number one best seller in hard money books, is not available anywhere other than Amazon.

• 33:06Anthony Pompliano?

  They hate it.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable. What a book.

• 33:11Anthony Pompliano?

  They're, they're hatin'. Hey, listen, the hat, the haters have thrown every obstacle your way, but you're still winning.

• 33:17Speaker 02

  Every obstacle that they could, and I'm still number one. Hey, why did you run Paulina off? I was trying to, uh, to say hi and talk to her in a, in a little bit. I want to come on Lunch Money.

• 33:28Anthony Pompliano?

  Listen, you're two minutes late. I just keep the schedule moving.

• 33:33Speaker 02

  Hey, since, since you fired all the Pompliano brothers, can I come on now? Like, do you give me a spot?

• 33:38Anthony Pompliano?

  But Joe, Joe's about to come on next.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  I know, but they're not here anymore. Something happened. I'm trying to find out what happened.

• 33:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Joe's

• 33:46Speaker 02

  You know, the Pompliano brothers get wrecked on that Terra trade.

• 33:52Anthony Pompliano?

  Look at Joe's, Joe's laughing right now. He's like, hey, man, y'all better chill out over there. My microphone ain't working yet, but it's about to be. All right, buddy. Thanks so much for coming on. We'll definitely do this again.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  My pleasure. Take care, guys.

• 34:08Anthony Pompliano?

  Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you subscribe on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to pompscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.