Ditching Dairy: The Doyenne of Vegan Cuisine on Food as a Portal for Transformation

“I would totally go vegan but there’s no way I can give up cheese.” If this is you, then today's episode is required listening. This week my wife and creative partner Julie Piatt returns to the podcast to discuss the hows and whys of ditching dairy in celebration of her brand new book, This Cheese Is Nuts! Delicious Vegan Cheese At Home, hitting bookstores everywhere Tuesday, June 13. Equal parts mother, author, yogi, musician, and doyenne of vegan cuisine, Julie spent the last two years ensconced in her kitchen lab, dutifully pushing plant-based culinary boundaries to create an extraordinary new work to empower each and all with the required tools and techniques to prepare over 75 facile vegan cheese recipes for home and family. Introducing Cheese 2.0. As her taste-tester in chief, take it from me — it doesn't mimic dairy cheese. It's better. Way better – for you, your family, the planet and of course the animals. If you loved The Plantpower Way, then you're going to flip for This Cheese Is Nuts — a next level nutritional primer designed not just for vegans but for everyone and anyone looking to live better and more sustainably. So whether you are paleo, lactose intolerant, plant-curious or just looking for healthier options for your kids, this book is a must for your and loved ones. This week I sit down with Julie to talk about why she wrote this book and what she hopes it will accomplish. This is a conversation about creative exploration, the power of self-expression and the hidden strengths of naiveté. It's about why and how you should finally ditch dairy. And it's about food choice as a powerful political act to improve personal health and sustainably preserve our collective ecological resources for future generations and our animal friends alike. I'm so proud of Julie and I couldn't be more excited about the impact her new book will no doubt have on positively transforming countless lives in the years to come. The recipes forever changed our lives and I promise they will change yours too. So pick it up for yourself. Pick it up for a loved one. Pick it up for the animals. Pick it up for the planet. Because time is running out. Because good food truly is the first portal to self-actualization. And more than ever, we need everybody to be who they really are. I sincerely hope you enjoy the discussion. This Cheese Is Nuts! Peace + Plants, Rich Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Rich Roll?

  Eating well rarely falls apart because of one big failure. It's the daily question that wears you down, like, what am I actually going to make tonight? What's in the fridge? And it's exactly why we built the Plant Power Meal Planner. It's a personalized, plant-based meal planning program that matches you with recipes based on your taste, your allergies, your cooking skills, and how much time you actually have. You build, through this program, a balanced, nutrient-dense plan for your entire household in a few minutes. Then it generates a grocery list for you with one click that plugs right into our delivery partners. All the recipes in the program are built by dietitians with culinary training. Plus, you get your own food coach to help you problem-solve along the way.

• 0:44Rich Roll?

  It's kind of an amazing thing. For listeners of the show, all you special people, we're offering an exclusive $20 off an annual subscription right now. To get it, go to meals.richroll.com, take your quick personalization quiz, and enter promo code RICHROLL20 at checkout.

• 1:05Julie Piatt?

  I really put everything that I have into this book in the hopes that it would provide families a support and a way to live better, to live more in alignment, kinder, gentler, more compassionate, and ultimately, connect all of us to our authentic self, which is what we need so desperately. We need everybody so desperately to be who they really are. And food is the first portal to discovering your best, most authentic self. And I really hope that this book is something that supports you in that journey.

• 1:47Rich Roll?

  That's Julie Piatt, and this is the Rich Roll Podcast.

• 2:02Rich Roll?

  The Rich Roll Podcast. Hey everybody, welcome to the podcast. This is your friendly host, Rich Roll. And today, I got Julie Piatt on the show, once again, my wife, my creative partner. And she returns so that together, we can celebrate her brand new book, This Cheese is Nuts: Delicious Vegan Cheese at Home, which comes out this week, June 13th. Very exciting. Basically, over the last few years, Julie has been quite the mad scientist, developing all these insane techniques to create extraordinary plant-based cheeses at home. And in so doing, she literally turned our kitchen into like this laboratory. And I was her taste tester in chief.

• 2:46Rich Roll?

  And I can honestly tell you that her new book is brilliant. It's a brilliant, shining testimony to all the labor and the love that she put into this process. And she's really created something special and unique that's going to allow all of you guys, everybody, not just vegans, but the plant curious, anyone who's health conscious and environmentally conscious, paleo people, those who are lactose intolerant, people who would be vegan, except for the cheese part, people who just want to provide healthier options for their kids, you get the picture, to create plant-based versions of your favorite cheeses and previously dairy-based sauces at home. And it's all pretty easy. So if you loved The Plant Power Way, then this book is really a must. It's next level across the board.

• 3:30Rich Roll?

  The nut and seed-based recipes are all amazing. The images are extraordinary. And Julie lays it all out in this really easy to read and follow format, so that you can kind of mimic what she created at home and do it in a really simple, facile way. And I'm just, I'm really proud of her and all the incredibly hard work she put into this primer, this manual, that is really going to empower all of you guys to take your kitchen and your nutrition to the next level. So today's episode is focused on all of this. It's focused on the hows and the whys of what Julie calls Cheese 2.0, why it's important to ditch dairy and how you can now do it at home without missing out on all those cheesy flavors and foods that you enjoy.

• 4:14Rich Roll?

  But first, we've got to take care of a little business.

• 4:24Rich Roll?

  Okay, so I hope you enjoy this episode and do yourself a favor. Pick up the new book. It really is a must have. It changed our lives and I promise you that it's going to change yours as well. So with that said, please enjoy this conversation with Julie Piatt.

• 4:45Rich Roll?

  So it's June 1st on the date that we're recording this. And just moments ago, President Trump made it official that he was pulling out of the Paris Climate Accord. Now, this is devastating news for all of us that share this beautiful blue spinning globe that we all cohabitate on and it's disappointing, it's hurtful. And I've been thinking about it and how it kind of relates to some of the things that I want to talk to you about Julie today. But I think one of the things that I take from it is that it shifts the balance of responsibility away from the government and onto the individual in certain respects.

• 5:29Rich Roll?

  And I think as individuals, and I've said this before, it's easy to feel disempowered, like our vote doesn't count, our actions don't count. And we tend to disassociate or disconnect ourselves from our own personal power. And we feel disenfranchised. But the truth is, each of us individually all wield great power. And we all have dominion over the choices that we make. And especially the products that we choose to purchase, the companies we choose to patronize, and the food that we decide to put in our mouth on a daily basis, three times a day and even more.

• 6:11Rich Roll?

  And so with that being said, I think it's all the more important that we become as mindful as possible about our consumer choices and our food choices.

• 6:24Rich Roll?

  And it comes to no surprise of any listener to this podcast that swapping animal products off your plate is one very powerful thing that all of us can do to take a stand for the planet and for our environment. Because in truth, when you do that, you are not only making a political choice, you're making an environmental choice. Because animal agriculture in its current incarnation, as it currently stands, our industrialized system of factory farming is responsible for everything from the mass species extinction that we're currently experiencing, the deforestation of the rainforest at the

• 7:06Rich Roll?

  rate of one to two acres every second. We're already using, I think it's 45% of all arable land for raising animals and raising crops for feeding those animals. Animal agriculture is polluting our lakes and our rivers, our water table, our oceans, creating these algal blooms where nothing can live. And the carbon emissions that's a result of animal agriculture is larger than all of transportation combined. But the beautiful thing about this is by making that switch and deciding that you're going to go plant-based, that you're going to focus on eating plants rather than animal products, can save a lot of these resources.

• 7:47Rich Roll?

  And it's a very empowering thing to do. And I think it's appropriate to kind of preface today's conversation with that monologue, because we are here on the, by the time this date, this podcast airs, it'll be June 13th, which is the drop date of Julie's brand new book, This Cheese is Nuts, which is a beautiful, gorgeous, and highly instructive primer for how to make dairy-free cheese, plant-based cheese. And I think we've all heard people, I know I've heard it myself, and I used to believe this, that Well, the idea of going plant-based, of going vegan is appealing to me, but there's

• 8:25Rich Roll?

  just no way that I could ditch cheese. Like, I just love cheese too much. And we know now that one of the reasons for that is that cheese has a tremendous pull, right? It's actually rooted in addiction. There is the caseomorphins that are contained in dairy cheese that activate the pleasure centers of our brain and create that craving, right? And so, breaking free of that can be a challenge, but the good news is, is that Julie now has this brand-new book, and it opens a whole new universe of possibilities for stepping

• 9:05Rich Roll?

  forward and into the light and breaking free of that dairy addiction, and doing it in a way that is not depriving you at all of taste and deliciousness and all the things that we love about cheese. So, welcome to the podcast, Julie.

• 9:21Julie Piatt?

  Thank you, Rich Roll. Thanks for having me.

• 9:22Rich Roll?

  Celebrate your brand-new book.

• 9:24Julie Piatt?

  Thanks so much.

• 9:25Rich Roll?

  I'm so proud of you for writing.

• 9:27Julie Piatt?

  Oh, thank you.

• 9:27Rich Roll?

  It's your first book that you've written by yourself.

• 9:30Julie Piatt?

  Yes, completely alone.

• 9:32Rich Roll?

  Yeah, all my-

• 9:33Julie Piatt?

  All by myself.

• 9:34Rich Roll?

  All my control freak impulses, I had to reel them in to let you just do this on your own.

• 9:39Julie Piatt?

  So that you weren't trying to write my book for me?

• 9:42Rich Roll?

  I wasn't trying to write your book for you, yes. I left you to your own process.

• 9:46Julie Piatt?

  And how did I do?

• 9:46Rich Roll?

  You thrived.

• 9:48Julie Piatt?

  Miraculously.

• 9:49Rich Roll?

  Yeah, you thrived. Not only did you put together an amazing book, but just a little bit of the backstory. I mean, literally for the last, I think it's almost two years at this point, you've been experimenting with how to create delicious, plant-based cheeses that we can all make at home and do it in a simple and accessible way for people. And so, our kitchen literally turned into this crazy laboratory. You were like this mad scientist, every day experimenting, trying to, you know, crack this equation for how this can be done with nuts and seeds and tofu and, you know, plant-based products. And kind of bust through the glass ceiling on flavor and taste. And I think you've over-delivered here.

• 10:31Julie Piatt?

  Thank you. I'm, I have to say, I'm really, I was really, really amazed. And it was a wonderful creative experience for me to, once again, experience that if you, if you approach a creative process with an openness and a willingness and an intention, and you allow a lot of room for experimentation, it's just miraculous what arises and what is presented. And there are many ways to do things in the world, many, many different ways to achieve the same thing. But I have to say that I am completely shocked that I was able to create such thick, rich, delicious, creamy, cheesy tastes, not using any dairy.

• 11:16Julie Piatt?

  It's, it's actually shocking how good it is.

• 11:19Rich Roll?

  And you kind of did it with a blank slate. I mean, you could have gone out and read a million books, or, you know, watched a ton of YouTube videos, or, you know, sort of taken a tip from your predecessors. But you really wanted to figure it out on your own. I mean, I think you did a little bit of education, but you didn't want to be overly influenced by people that are already doing it. You wanted to be able to figure out like your own way in.

• 11:44Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's not really my creative process. Like, again, you know, just to sort of support, you know, my last comment is, if I do that, then I'm taking the magic out of what might be given to me. So if you're really green and naive to a process, you know, I might try something that would be completely ridiculous, you know, in the world of culinary technique. But because I'm sort of naive, kind of, you know, it allows, it allows these other miracles to manifest. Where you're like, wow, I never thought of doing that before.

• 12:18Rich Roll?

  Right. So if you had gone and done a six-month intensive, you know, vegan cheese course, you know, learned all the rules, then it might have constrained you. I think there's a term for that. It might be, but it's essentially the power of naivety. Like, when you don't know, you know, what's wrong and what's right, there's a freedom in that that allows you to perhaps see things in a different way that would not have been possible had you already sort of known the rulebook.

• 12:47Julie Piatt?

  Definitely. And also, you know, part of it is too, is it's just not my nature. The way that I cook and the way I create is very spontaneous. It's in the moment. It's organic. And it's kind of a void of any technique.

• 13:01Rich Roll?

  Right.

• 13:02Julie Piatt?

  Well, so to speak.

• 13:03Rich Roll?

  You're like, you're like the accidental vegan chef. It's hilarious that you're on your second book because the, it was never the plan that you were going to become this sort of well-known vegan chef.

• 13:14Julie Piatt?

  No, it was not on my list. I had a lot of other things on my list.

• 13:17Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I know. Like, it's sort of a cosmic joke because here you are and now that's, that's the thing for you, right?

• 13:23Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it's pretty crazy. Well, again, I mean, it just came about as an organic, natural extension of something that I connected with. And so, you know, I love home, I love family, I love cooking for people. It was always pretty easy for me. You know, I can cook for 50 people. It's not, it doesn't stress me out. I'm not freaking out about it. But, you know, in our case, it was really your, your training schedule and the fact when you went vegan and you were really trying to push yourself and do these double Ironman races. And I suddenly realized what you were trying to achieve. And I knew that I could really support you by really nourishing you when you came home and giving you that, that

• 14:03Julie Piatt?

  amazing nutrition, along with a lot of love and energy in that food, you know, as well, with, which supporting you.

• 14:10Rich Roll?

  Right. And it wasn't like, I'm going to write a book someday about this.

• 14:14Julie Piatt?

  No.

• 14:15Rich Roll?

  You know, that kind of. But, but, you know, sort of shifting focus onto this book in particular, This Cheese is Nuts. I mean, why, you know, we did the Plant Power Way, super successful. You know, people are enjoying it all over the world. I still get Instagrams daily of people sharing recipes from that. Why, why cheese as the follow-up? Like, you could have gone in a million different directions. You could have done smoothies, you could have done desserts, you could have done, you know, like, why did you hone in on? Cheese as a focus.

• 14:46Julie Piatt?

  Well, I think the reason is because of the absolute delicious quality of the sort of beginning vegan cheeses that we have in the Plant Power Way. So we have a warm cashew sauce that is in the Plant Power Way, and we had started using this in place of grated cheese over our nachos. It's in a recipe called Torre de Nacho. And it's so delicious that I literally can't even finish pouring it before you guys have devoured the entire plate. I started having to quadruple and then make the recipe six times in order to have enough food. So it was really that cheese. It was so delicious and felt so good in the body. And I knew I hadn't even scratched the surface because I just, it's a small

• 15:30Julie Piatt?

  section. It's just, you know, one or two cheeses or one or two spreads. And it's something that I really wanted to dive into. I had lived in Paris during college and, you know, traveled Europe a lot and loved cheese, you know, adore cheese. And I just knew that it was, it was something that really needed to be addressed. It was a great opportunity because it's also something that's making us very sick as, you know, as a, as a people. And also, you know, the very, very brutal and violent practices that are being inflicted on our, our feeling being animals as well and then polluting the planet. I mean, it

• 16:12Julie Piatt?

  is a necessity. We have to evolve. So when I'm talking about cheese, I'm talking about that this is the next evolution of cheese. This is cheese 2.0. It's better. It's better for you. It tastes better. It's better for the environment. It's kinder for your body, for the animals, for the planet.

• 16:29Rich Roll?

  And I think that the timing is really great because we're seeing the, the, the growth of the plant-based movement is continuing to expand into this beautiful mushroom cloud. People are discovering it. You know, every single day, people are adopting these ways and stepping into a healthier way of living and being. And nobody gets hamstrung because they can't figure out how to make a smoothie, or there aren't enough salad recipes, or, you know, vegan, or, you know, veggie patty, you know, veggie patty products available on the market. But cheese is wide open. It's like cheese is the thing that everyone's like gets caught up in. They're like, I just can't.

• 17:11Rich Roll?

  I can't let go of it. And, and I think in part, you know, I understand that it, it's, it is delicious and it does have that addictive component that I spoke about earlier. But also, um, this is changing, but you know, but, but really it's, it's difficult to find good plant-based cheeses on the market that actually taste good. You know, there's, you're seeing more and more of it. Um, a lot of traditionally, historically, they've tasted terrible and nothing like cheese and they just don't hit that spot. Now there's some new products coming online and you know, they're not available everywhere, but in Los Angeles, New York, you know, urban centers, you can find them. They're getting better and better. And I think that's

• 17:51Rich Roll?

  definitely starting to, you know, um, change the, change the game and change the equation. But this idea that you can do it at home is like a mystery box, right?

• 18:02Julie Piatt?

  Right.

• 18:02Rich Roll?

  And so I think, you know, a lot of people might be listening to this and saying, well, this sounds great. And if it's true, it's fantastic. But like, I'm never going to do this at home. Like you're just going to have to make the product and get it in the store so I can buy it because the idea that I'm going to do this at home, just I'm overwhelmed. It sounds way too complicated. Like I, I can't even wrap my head around it.

• 18:21Julie Piatt?

  Well, this book is, um, like the Plant Power Way, if you have my, my other recipes, and if you've, if you have any experience with them, you will know that my recipes are very simple, that they're simple and creative and usually take less than 30 minutes to make. Any meal in the Plant Power Way falls into that category. And I have to say that, um, that simplicity and that ease even, uh, is throughout this cheese book, shockingly enough. If you looked at dairy cheese and what it takes to make actually dairy cheese, it's months long with all different kinds of soakings and washings and additives and agings and processes and can even take years. Um, this is not that kind of cheese. This is a cheese

• 19:05Julie Piatt?

  that you can make in your own kitchen with relatively minimal equipment. And so let me talk about the equipment right now, just to take the guesswork out of it.

• 19:13Rich Roll?

  Because a lot of people are like, what am I going to, I'm going to have to buy all kinds of crazy stuff in order to do this.

• 19:16Julie Piatt?

  So let's talk about this. So what I did is I divided the book into three sections. So About. I also have companion recipes to use your cheeses in. So there's over 75 recipes. But the first part of the book are easy spreads. So these are cheesy spreads that you can make in literally five to 10 minutes. And you can make them as your guests are arriving, mold them into a form or cheese ball and serve them and your friends will be falling down on the floor just enjoying this delicious cheesy taste. So that everybody can make right away. And a lot of those are made in the food processor. So a food processor is a very basic kitchen piece of equipment.

• 19:58Rich Roll?

  Yeah, most people have that.

• 19:59Julie Piatt?

  And they have that. So it basically, you know, involves soaking your notes, your nuts overnight. So that's something that you have to prepare for. So what you do is you get your nuts and you put them in clean water and you put them in the fridge and then you go to sleep and you wake up and the next day you drain your soaked nuts and you do the first step. So if you're going to do an easy spread, you, you know, work in the, in the, in the food processor and you're done in five minutes and serve that. If you go to the second stage cheeses, you're going to do one, one step of aging. So what you're going to do is you're going to make your mixture, whatever those ingredients are in a Vitamix. And the reason that you

• 20:41Julie Piatt?

  need a Vitamix is that if you want it smooth, if you want that creamy texture, you're going to need that type of motor.

• 20:47Rich Roll?

  A high powered blender.

• 20:48Julie Piatt?

  A high power, really to get it, really to get it right. And I can't vouch for other kinds of blenders because I don't use those. So I put, you know, the Vitamix is what I'm recommending if you want to make cheese at home. Then after you've made that process, you're going to transfer that mixture into a mold of some kind, aluminum mold is what I like with the removable bottoms or a spring form ring around it. And those are going to go into a dehydrator. So let's talk about what a dehydrator is.

• 21:20Rich Roll?

  That's the scary, that's the scary part.

• 21:21Julie Piatt?

  That's the scary part.

• 21:22Rich Roll?

  Everyone's going to freak out now when they hear that.

• 21:23Julie Piatt?

  Okay, so let me just, let me just say that I think. The whole time that I was doing the Plant Power Way, I never bought a dehydrator. And I think the reason that I didn't is that I wanted to evolve with my readers. I wanted to go on this journey along with you. And I'm not into a lot of equipment, so I tend to keep things very, very simple. But what I'm telling you is if you pick up a dehydrator, it will literally change your life. The same way that the Vitamix change your life, the dehydrator is just sitting there waiting for you for the next step.

• 21:52Rich Roll?

  Are they expensive?

• 21:53Julie Piatt?

  They're not. They're less than a hundred dollars. So you can get one with maybe five shelves in it. And what it does is it gives a very, very low level of heat that's really sort of qualifies as raw. So what you're going to do is you add a probiotic, or sometimes some of my recipes don't even have a probiotic, or they have apple cider vinegar is the aging ingredient, or maybe just lemon juice. So it's, some of the recipes are very, very simple. But you're going to put these molds with the cheese, with the mixture that you've mixed in the Vitamix, and you're going to put it in the dehydrator, cover it with parchment paper, and you're going to leave it overnight.

• 22:35Julie Piatt?

  So literally, you put it in the dehydrator and you go away, and you're gone for a day. Then you come back, you take the mold out of the dehydrator and put it in the refrigerator for another 24 hours. At that point, you have an aged tasting cheese.

• 22:51Rich Roll?

  Is there any advantage to leaving it in the dehydrator for an extended period of time to like truly age it?

• 22:58Julie Piatt?

  See, I tried that for all of you guys, so you don't have to go through that. I did not find any increased benefit in taste by doing that. And in fact, it made it kind of acidity, and I didn't enjoy it. So I'm telling you guys, the sweet spot for aging is 24 hours. And using a particular strain of acidophilus, a particular count, that ages it just perfectly.

• 23:26Rich Roll?

  That's the probiotic.

• 23:27Julie Piatt?

  That's a probiotic.

• 23:28Rich Roll?

  Is that hard to find?

• 23:29Julie Piatt?

  No.

• 23:29Rich Roll?

  Can you just get it on Amazon?

• 23:31Julie Piatt?

  Amazon or any health food store, any health food store. And also, you know, not every recipe in the book has nutritional yeast. I know a lot of you guys know out there that that is something that we use to get a cheesy flavor, and it is in some of the spreads. But it's not in every recipe. So the recipes vary. Some of them are... Cashew-based, some of them are almond-based, some of them use fresh coconut, just actual coconut.

• 23:56Rich Roll?

  Right, because a lot of people are going to say, "Well, I'm allergic to nuts."

• 23:59Julie Piatt?

  Okay, so I have an allergy-free section.

• 24:01Rich Roll?

  This cheese is nuts, you know, so they're like, "Well, I'm out."

• 24:04Julie Piatt?

  I have an allergy-free section in this book. It has about, I think about 10 recipes that are made with seeds, tofu, and beans. So I figured out a way to make a beautiful molded cheese using white beans and also another one with garbanzo beans. And they're delicious. They're both amazing. And in these cases, you're not aging them. You are using nutritional yeast, doing this in the food processor. But when you put these into the molds, you just put them straight in the fridge and they firm up in the fridge.

• 24:35Rich Roll?

  So essentially, what you're saying is the prep process is anywhere from five to 30 minutes, basically, of making these mixtures and then putting them in these spring-form little mold things. And then beyond that, it's a passive sort of use of time. You put them in the dehydrator for a day. You put them in the fridge for a day, so you're not actually doing anything. So the labor-intensive aspect of it is really around like, you know, 20 or 30 minutes

• 25:02Julie Piatt?

  It's very minimal.

• 25:03Rich Roll?

  On the more complicated side.

• 25:05Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, very minimal. And there are a couple worm cheeses. Again, you blend a mixture in a Vitamix and put it in a saucepan and heat it up. But again, you know, the processes are just remarkably simple. I mean, and definitely if you're comparing it to dairy cheese, it's completely a different world.

• 25:23Rich Roll?

  Right, but who's making dairy cheese at home?

• 25:24Julie Piatt?

  Well, I know, but no, a lot of people are there.

• 25:27Rich Roll?

  Do they?

• 25:28Julie Piatt?

  Of course. There's a whole movement of people that make cheese.

• 25:30Rich Roll?

  At home, really?

• 25:31Julie Piatt?

  Oh, yeah. Well, and it's extensive, of course. But, you know, people do. Chefs do. People do make cheese at home. What I hope is that, you know, people understand that, you know, that it does take just a couple processes. And the way that I've laid out the book is if you read the beginning sections, which tell you about what are the ingredients and what are the techniques, you will understand very clearly how to do this very, very easily. And I know, I mean, I also have worm sauces in here. I have hollandaise sauce. I have a fondue. I have a creme brulee, which was my favorite dessert that I had to give up when I became plant-based. This recipe is absolutely extraordinary. It is just, you know, off-the-hook delicious, amazing.

• 26:16Rich Roll?

  Well, while you were doing your mad scientist thing over this two-year period, you know, I was essentially your chief taste tester. And, uh, and I can honestly say, not just because you're my wife and like you wrote this book, and I certainly want everyone to buy it and enjoy it. I was amazed. Like, I didn't expect you to be able to figure this out on the level that you did. And some of these cheeses, they're just, I had no idea that you could create some of these flavors without dairy. I mean, you've got everything from, you know, mozzarella balls and brine. You've got like, uh, you know, sharp, sharp cheddar, smoked gouda. You've got like a blue cheese. You use like spirulina in that, right? To give it that like green marbled sort of, you know, appearance.

• 27:01Rich Roll?

  Mascarpone. I mean, what else do you have in here? Sun-dried tomato macadamia cheese, cashew camembert. I mean, it's pretty exotic, you know, like this is even more exotic than, you know, basically you might find at a fine food market in the, in the cheese section. Like you've got all the bases covered. And so it is remarkable that you're laying out essentially how people can do this at, at home in a pretty facile way. And so just to recap, like in terms of, you know, hard purchases to get ready to do this, you need a food processor, you need a Vitamix. You need, can you do without the dehydrator or do you absolutely have to get the?

• 27:38Julie Piatt?

  I would just get the dehydrator because the thing is, is you're gonna, I also have recipes in the book for crackers. And once you figure out how to make your own crackers, you're just gonna be like, why have I been spending, you know, $8 on a little box of crackers? Because again, it takes literally five minutes. You just need the recipe and then, you know, blend it in the Vitamix, spread it on a Teflon sheet, you know, that comes with the, with the, um, it's not really Teflon. I use the wrong word. It's like a non-stick sheet and that goes right in the dehydrator and you have crackers, you know, the next day. So I would do the dehydrator. And then also I do need to mention, there is one additional step. If you really want to go to the next level and taste how the cheese changes over a three-week period, you need to get a humidifier.

• 28:23Julie Piatt?

  And a humidifier is another name for a wine cooler. So if you have a wine cooler laying around, or you can get a half wine cooler. I got mine on Amazon for like $70 and it has wood shelves. And so what I do is when I'm making blue cheese, or I'm making camembert, or I'm making the triple cream, or I'm making the brie, what I'll do is I'll make, I'll quadruple the recipe and I'll get four forms ready and set up, get them in the dehydrator, get them in the fridge, and then I'll eat the first one and put the rest, the other three, back in the humidifier. And you take them out of the molds and you're going to basically smooth the edges and set your cheese up. You know, you have to give it a little bit of love with your spatula.

• 29:07Julie Piatt?

  And then in a couple of days, you'll want to sprinkle it with a little fine sea salt and then turn it. And it will start to age and change and develop and, and you know, you really have a three-week timeframe is what I find is the sweet spot. Once you leave it past three weeks, it doesn't get any better and you know, can set up mold and stuff like that. So you, you want to work within this three-week timeframe and that's explained in the book.

• 29:33Rich Roll?

  So that's, but that's different than what you said a minute, like a couple of minutes ago about putting them in the, the dehydrator for just one day and how aging it longer than that doesn't make a difference. So just clarify what you mean.

• 29:46Julie Piatt?

  Okay, so aging is with the heat, right? So that's what activates the acid and that's, that's the probiotic action. So after that, it goes into the fridge and then after it's been in the fridge a day, you can enjoy that cheese right then. But if you want to go a little farther, you can take that same cheese and put it in what's called a humidifier and it keeps it at 54 degrees and that will continue to age the cheese at the right, at the right level. It's like storing cheese in a cave. It's like that type of thing.

• 30:18Rich Roll?

  But you don't have to do that. But is there a taste advantage to, like, does it taste better?

• 30:23Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it will taste better. It will start to taste better. But again, that's only, there are over 75 recipes in the book for cheese. That only is pertaining to five of the recipes. Brie, camembert, blue cheese, triple cream, and did I forget one?

• 30:40Rich Roll?

  I don't know.

• 30:41Julie Piatt?

  I don't know.

• 30:42Rich Roll?

  All right. Yeah, no, I get it. That's cool.

• 30:52Rich Roll?

  What about sort of just the ingredients, right? So a lot of these are cashew. I mean, cashew is really the main nut that most people use to make these kinds of cheeses.

• 31:01Julie Piatt?

  Again, cashew is king. And once again, you know, we all have to be very, very careful that we're eating a lot of variety of foods because you don't want to, you know, overdo anything. So that's not the answer. So there are cheeses in this book made from cashews, coconut meat, macadamia nut, walnut, almond, and then the beans, the tofu, the seeds. So there's a lot of variety in here. However, for a lot of these kind of traditional cheeses, oh, I also have goat cheese. I did a macadamia goat, also a sprouted almond goat as well. You can combine the nuts as well. You can combine almonds with cashews or cashews with macadamia.

• 31:44Julie Piatt?

  And what I'm hoping that everybody will do is understand the process and then allow their own creativity to come out after they figure out the basics.

• 31:54Rich Roll?

  Are there any other like crazy ingredients that are hard to get? I know you use like Irish moss as a thickening agent in some of these.

• 32:00Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, again, like let's talk about Irish moss. It's just a seaweed and you can order it online and there's very specific instructions in the book for dealing with it. This is actually an additive that I learned from Cafe Gratitude and they use it extensively in their menu. You need to rinse it out very, very well because it really tastes and smells like the sea. And if you don't rinse it really well, your cheese will be sea tasting.

• 32:24Rich Roll?

  It'll taste like the ocean.

• 32:25Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, so you really do need to wash it out.

• 32:27Rich Roll?

  Like ocean cheese.

• 32:28Julie Piatt?

  You know, you can get a, you know, a package of Irish moss online. It'll last you a year, not kidding. It's, you just use a very small amount and you need to emulsify it and then, you know, add it into the cheese.

• 32:41Rich Roll?

  Yeah, and the crazy thing about these cheeses is that you can eat them and you don't, like, you know, if you overdo it with dairy or you eat like some pizza or something like that, like it tastes great, but then an hour later, you're like, ugh.

• 32:52Julie Piatt?

  No, always. I mean, that was one of the big things as well because I was always the person that wanted to order the blue cheese or the, you know, the rogue furt with the pasta and the walnuts, that kind of dish. And by the third bite, I would be sick and just thinking like, why?

• 33:07Rich Roll?

  Fettuccine Alfredo.

• 33:08Julie Piatt?

  Exactly. Fettuccine Alfredo. Why did I order this? Well, I can tell you, I have an almond fettuccine Alfredo that is absolutely incredible. It's just insane. And you feel nothing in your gut.

• 33:21Rich Roll?

  Family favorite here.

• 33:21Julie Piatt?

  You feel nothing in your gut.

• 33:23Rich Roll?

  You could eat it. Like, I remember when I was making my transition and I was still like eating cheese, but I got to this point where I was like, oh yeah, like I want to have like mac and cheese or fettuccine Alfredo. But I could only eat like a small percentage of what I used to be able to eat of that without just feeling like I had a brick in my stomach and feeling terrible. But now, yeah, the fettuccine Alfredo that you make now, like I'll just eat heaps of that. And I don't get that heavy, you know, sort of food coma that comes with the traditional version of that.

• 33:55Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, definitely. And, you know, the other ingredients are, as I said, apple cider vinegar, lemon juice. I also use coconut oil. That is what actually gives form to some of the cheeses, gives it the body. I use coconut milk as well in some of the recipes. And probably the most, I guess, processed ingredient that I use is something called modified tapioca starch. It's not tapioca starch, it's modified tapioca starch. It is organic, it is natural, it is non-GMO, okay? But that's the name of it. And if you want to make the mozzarella balls and brine, or the warm cheeses, like there's a warm cashew

• 34:38Julie Piatt?

  cheddar, you need this substance and you need to get it. It's like a powder. You need to order it on Amazon.

• 34:44Rich Roll?

  Can you get it on Amazon?

• 34:45Julie Piatt?

  On Amazon. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.

• 34:47Rich Roll?

  Yeah, the argument that like, oh, well, it's all these fancy ingredients and I don't have the, they're not available in my town. Like, that argument doesn't hold water anymore because everybody has access to Amazon, right?

• 34:59Julie Piatt?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:59Rich Roll?

  Some of these ingredients that might sound foreign to somebody who's living outside of a major metropolitan area and doesn't have access to a healthy food market, you're literally a couple keystrokes away of being able to access these things.

• 35:14Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 35:14Rich Roll?

  And you have them all listed in the book, right?

• 35:16Julie Piatt?

  Of course, yeah. Everything's all listed out. And the other thing is, is that there's just so many companion recipes in this book. So there are salads, there are pasta dishes, potato lasagna, cheesecake. There's just, there's everything you would need, basically, to live.

• 35:35Rich Roll?

  Right, to free yourself of dairy and have access to all of the things that you traditionally enjoy. And I think that was part of the success equation of the Plant Power Way. It wasn't trying to be too far left of field of the traditional family. Like, a lot of the recipes in the Plant Power Way are things that you're used to eating, like lasagna and enchiladas and veggie burgers and things that the typical, traditional family likes to enjoy, but just delicious, plant-based versions of those. And I think this is certainly like a little bit more of an esoteric book because it's specific to cheeses and there's a gourmet sort of aspect to that, I suppose.

• 36:19Rich Roll?

  But part of what you were able to accomplish beautifully is demystifying all of this and saying, "You could do this at home. Like, don't be intimidated, don't be scared. It's actually pretty easy." Right?

• 36:30Julie Piatt?

  No, it's actually so easy that I can't give too much of the information. It's not that, it's not that big of a secret. Like, the stuff is fairly simple. So when you read it, you'll figure it out.

• 36:42Rich Roll?

  It's like that thing when you figure out how to make almond milk and you're like, "That's it." You just put almonds in water, basically, in a mixer and blend it. You're like, "That's all it is."

• 36:51Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, trust me, it's not rocket science. And it's just little things of like, when you take the mold off your cheese, if it's a little bit falling apart, you just have to smooth it back together. There's just a couple little tips that you need to know along the way. But I really know, because I know from my own family, how it's changed our life and our meals and what we're enjoying at home. And I really feel like...

• 37:19Julie Piatt?

  If you just learned, let's say you bought this book and let's say that you learned five cheese recipes that you were able to make consistently and frequently, that would change your life. I mean, that would seriously change the way you're eating plant-based in your home. And what I know is that you're going to be able to make every recipe in this book, because there's nothing in here that you can't conquer. And one of my favorites is this burrata that I perfected, and it's simply making a mixture and putting it in cheesecloth and you hang it overnight. So it's not in a dehydrator, it's hung by a string by anything you have in your kitchen, a hook or something. And after one day, you

• 38:03Julie Piatt?

  take that bundle and put it in a bowl of coconut milk and leave it in the fridge for three or four days, take it out and open it up. And when you cut it, it is milky, creamy, soft, delicious burrata. And you can pour your olive oil on it and balsamic and cracked pepper and sea salt and you're just going to be in heaven. It's amazing.

• 38:28Rich Roll?

  The other thing about it that I think is powerful is that kids like it. You know what I mean? Like, some of these are like a little crazier, like cheeses that kids don't normally eat. Like, you know, kids aren't eating like brie and camembert and things like that. But to be able to make mac and cheese and make cheesy foods that kids like and have them enjoy it and really like not know the difference is pretty powerful. You know, because kids, you know, they're forming their habits at a young age. And if you can catch them early, before they become, you know, they go too far down that Velveeta rabbit hole.

• 39:03Julie Piatt?

  Right.

• 39:03Rich Roll?

  And get them interested in, you know, these cheeses that you're making at home. Like, you're setting them up for, you know, better habits long-term throughout the rest of their life.

• 39:14Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And really, this is something that I wanted to talk about. And what my experience was, is I was buying grated, you know, vegan grated cheese in the store and would bring it home and put it on the nachos. And it was kind of gross and no one really liked it very much, but we were trying. And then when I went to clean it up, I couldn't get it. I needed a jackhammer to get it off the tray after it had melted, you know, the remnants of it. And I realized, wait a second, like, that's what my, that's what my digestion is having to deal with right now, and that's what my kid's digestion is having to deal with. And I thought, this is not a good idea. And that was when we switched from needing grated cheese to actually using this warm cashew as the option on the, on nachos. And we have pizza night at home

• 39:59Julie Piatt?

  as well, where we make these amazing veggie pizzas, take them out of the oven, and then pour the warm sauce on from the stove at the, at the last step, and then add like a Caesar salad on top of that. And it's one of the most delicious meals that we enjoy. So I have-

• 40:16Rich Roll?

  And it's so easy to make, too.

• 40:18Julie Piatt?

  It's so easy.

• 40:18Rich Roll?

  But you have to get over that idea that you need it to melt in a certain way.

• 40:22Julie Piatt?

  Right, that you need it melted. Yeah. And I will say that I did achieve melted cheese in a form-

• 40:26Rich Roll?

  Melt, melting it properly has been the big-

• 40:28Julie Piatt?

  That's the big thing.

• 40:29Rich Roll?

  hurdle that no one's been able to really figure out.

• 40:31Julie Piatt?

  Yeah. And I did achieve it. I achieved it at the 11th hour, right before we were going to print. I mean, honestly, I could not figure it out, but I did in the end. It's the hardest recipe in the book. It takes way too long. I don't know why anybody would ever do it. But if you want to, you have to age this cheddar for a few weeks, and then take it, cut it into quarters, put it back in the fridge and get it very cold, and then grate it on the wide tooth grater side of the, of your cheese grater. And I did achieve that velvety, flat kind of texture that's on a cheddar. But it was by far the

• 41:14Julie Piatt?

  hardest recipe, and I probably won't be making that as, as one of my staples, just because I enjoy the worm so much.

• 41:21Rich Roll?

  Mm hmm. What were the, like, dark alleys that you ran down that, like, didn't bear fruit?

• 41:27Julie Piatt?

  That didn't work.

• 41:28Rich Roll?

  Like, what kind of, like, explosions and misfires did you have along the way?

• 41:31Julie Piatt?

  One really bad one that was just, and it's kind of new for me, too, because when I'm making regular food, I almost never have a fail. Like, I kind of know what it's going to be before, and it kind of works. I rarely throw a meal out. I don't, I don't, I don't remember throwing a meal out when I'm just making regular food. But with cheese, it was different. I tried to do something with hemp seeds and I thought it was going to be really amazing and it just tasted horrible. It was so bitter and I just couldn't, yeah, I just couldn't make it work. It just did not work.

• 42:01Rich Roll?

  When you look at the products that are currently out in the market and, you know, the other, the other books that are out there about how to make vegan cheese at home, like, what do you think that you've been able to accomplish that's, that's different or distinctive?

• 42:15Julie Piatt?

  Um, well, I think that my taste is unique and hope, you know, luckily and happily, I've had, you know, people who have been tasting it who have that reaction, you know, who, who tend to feel the same way about my cheese as I do. I think my cheese is fresh and clean and high vibration. Um, I think that I've applied it in a family, you know, more of a family application because of who I am, because of what our life is. And I think I've also been able to display it in a, in, you know, in a lot of artistry, in a lot of beauty. And so it's a very, I'm very happy with the book, you know, it's very well photographed,

• 42:58Julie Piatt?

  beautifully photographed and presented. And I think I've hit kind of all of the delicious cheese, you know, dishes and, and flavors that we've all missed, you know, ever in our life, you know, even, like I said, I even have fondue in the book, but it's not like I eat fondue, you know, I mean, how many times have I eaten fondue with you? I've known you for 18 years.

• 43:21Rich Roll?

  That was like the thing that our parents did. They had fondue parties. Fondue had a moment in the seventies when everyone had fondue parties. Like if you're our age, you might remember that, but.

• 43:31Julie Piatt?

  No, but some.

• 43:32Rich Roll?

  It's like, do people still do that?

• 43:33Julie Piatt?

  You know, and the funny thing is, um, I can't, I can't remember who it was. One of the people on the Plant Power Way, I think it was Annetta, who, um, she's actually Swiss. And so when I asked for recipe testing, she said, I'll, I'll test the fondue. And I was a little nervous, um, because she tends to be very, um, very direct. Uh, but she was very happy with my recipe. She did offer that I add a dash of nutmeg. And so I made that shift and put it in there.

• 44:03Rich Roll?

  Well, as your chief taste tester, I can tell you that you definitely nailed it. Like, I just, you know, they're quite extraordinary and delicious. But I think the biggest sort of vote of confidence that you received was from Jan and Lucy, right, who lived in Paris for a long time and, you know, are sort of, you know, well-versed in the culinary arts and are, you know, probably fair to say, cheese connoisseurs. And I think you had a lot of trepidation about, like, letting them taste it because they're so, you know, sort of urban and cosmopolitan and you're like, I wonder if they're gonna like it.

• 44:38Julie Piatt?

  Right. No, I was really, really happy. Yeah, they're huge fans. They're begging me to please make a cheese line and...

• 44:45Rich Roll?

  Right. Well, Jan, we should say, like Jan Velters, he's a very accomplished and well-known photographer. He's basically photographed every celebrity and model and, you know, his stuff is in the covers of all the magazines and all that kind of stuff. And his beautiful wife Lucy, his fashion designer, they're a beautiful family, but they're like, they're like the coolest people you're ever gonna meet. Like, they're so cool, you can't believe how cool they are. They're like intimidatingly cool. So it was great that they gave you like...

• 45:15Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, they're amazing. They were just, they were freaking out. And, you know, she would, I would text her and say, "Have some for me," and she would, like, run by and get it, you know, like her, she was like, "This is like my crack."

• 45:26Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that's cool.

• 45:28Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, but you were talking about the addiction earlier and also, you know, it's funny because it's like, I guess I've created like the morphine for the heroin addiction of cheese.

• 45:38Rich Roll?

  Right. Or the, well, what, you know, it's, it's, it's the methadone.

• 45:44Julie Piatt?

  Oh, methadone.

• 45:45Rich Roll?

  That's what you mean, right? Like, you gotta get off the heroin, so you go on the methadone. But methadone's still, but it's, that's not an apt analogy because methadone's still, you don't really wanna be on methadone.

• 45:55Julie Piatt?

  It's not like, it's not like a component of health and wellness.

• 45:58Rich Roll?

  Right. It would be like getting off heroin with green juice or something like that, I suppose.

• 46:02Julie Piatt?

  Okay, maybe that's...

• 46:03Rich Roll?

  But the other thing that I think is interesting about this book is, is that, I think, you know, look, the scientific consensus is pretty clear that, you know, dairy ain't that good for you. You know, it's linked to all sorts of...

• 46:18Rich Roll?

  Health issues that you really don't want to have to experience in your life. And, you know, most people that free themselves from dairy feel better. And a lot of these sort of conditions that people have had, you know, sort of chronically experienced, go away. It's also the hardest leap to take. I mean, I know for myself, you know, my process was I initially gave up meat. That wasn't so difficult for me. I actually didn't miss it that much. And it made me realize how much of my life was spent eating meat just out of habit and just because that's, you know, in front of me. As opposed to making a mindful choice to eat it. And so I didn't really miss meat that much.

• 46:59Rich Roll?

  But dairy, that was hard, you know, like kicking that dairy habit involved, you know, a good week or two of having cravings. And, you know, it took a little bit of time for me to free myself of that. But once you free yourself, you're free. You know, you're free. You don't have that pull. And, and so, you know, the point that I'm trying to make is that if people are listening and they're not vegan, or maybe they're just plant curious or whatever, or maybe you're paleo. Or maybe you're just eating whatever, but you're lactose intolerant. I don't know what the percentage of people on the planet that are lactose intolerant are, but it's massive. And there's tons of people whose digestive systems don't process dairy very well, but they continue to eat it nonetheless.

• 47:40Rich Roll?

  Because they think that they need it, or that's just what we do in our culture. And so whether you're paleo, you're lactose intolerant, you just want to be a little bit healthier, maybe you just want, you know, better, more delicious, you know, healthier versions of recipes that your kids like, whatever it is, like the book delivers for everybody. So as opposed to being just a book for the vegan community, sort of preaching to the choir. I think this book has a broad appeal for, you know, a much larger demographic of people. And I think that's really exciting.

• 48:11Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, it is. I mean, it extends to the paleo community, also to raw. And also, I had this really interesting experience with my own kids and my niece Maggie, because my son Tyler, you know, ever since he was a baby, he hated cheese. Literally, if somebody ordered cheese at the table next to him, he would turn his head. He could smell it. It was something that was really just didn't sit well with him. And also, my niece Maggie, who helped me with the book and did some organization stuff for me and recipe testing, she hates cheese. And they were eating my cheese. Now, they weren't interested in, you know, a camembert that had been left in the humid fire for two weeks. They weren't

• 48:52Julie Piatt?

  really into that. But everything else that I made, they ate. And so, when people tell me, you know, well, does this cheese taste exactly like cheese? I say, no, it's better. It's the new evolution of cheese. It's fresher, cleaner. You know, if you really, I mean, have you eaten blue cheese recently? Like, an old one that's been aged for, you know, many, many days?

• 49:14Rich Roll?

  I used to eat so much of that.

• 49:16Julie Piatt?

  But if you ate it today, you would be shocked, because it really is like, it smells like an old tennis shoe. I mean, it's like a smelly tennis shoe. That's really partly what cheese smells like that's been aged.

• 49:28Rich Roll?

  Well, because what is that aging process?

• 49:32Julie Piatt?

  Well, that's another thing.

• 49:33Rich Roll?

  You know what I mean? It's essentially...

• 49:35Julie Piatt?

  It's an old, smelly tennis shoe. Well, and this is really important, too. And I'm glad that you brought this up, because, you know, listen, I wanted to, I gave this book my all, and I wanted to succeed in every single arena of culinary, you know, exploration. And I, you know, ordered molds that I had delivered to the house, that I, you know, that I added to my cheese, and I attempted...

• 49:57Rich Roll?

  Yeah, not molds, like physical molds. You mean, actual, like molds?

• 50:00Julie Piatt?

  Like mold, like something called...

• 50:01Rich Roll?

  That's what a traditional cheesemaker would use to make cheese.

• 50:04Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, to set up a rind and to set up this aging process. So, I did go through that experimentation. And these, you know, the names of these substances are things like, you know, Penicillium bacterium. And I'm looking at the label, thinking like, huh? That, that might not be that great, you know? Like, here I am, like, trying to stay away from all pharmaceuticals and all kinds of, you know, chemical and different bacteria. And I'm like, I don't know if I want to ingest that. But what I did is I added it to the cheese. And the other thing that's really hilarious is that the quantities that they tell you to add it in are like 1/64 of a teaspoon. And you're like, what is that? And you're trying to figure out what that quantity is. And it's such a small quantity that you think that it can't work at all.

• 50:50Julie Piatt?

  And what happened is that night that I, that I used that mold, I just clipped the side of the packet and added that very small amount into the cheese. And I woke up in the middle of the night with my sinuses completely inflamed.

• 51:05Rich Roll?

  Yeah, that, it is interesting. It's like, when you're eating cheese, you're eating mold.

• 51:09Julie Piatt?

  Mm-hmm.

• 51:09Rich Roll?

  Right? Like, has anyone, are there studies out there about whether, like, the health impacts of that?

• 51:14Julie Piatt?

  Well, I have another friend of mine who just spent one year trying to get mold out of her brain, doing all these kinds of different, you know, cleanses and things.

• 51:21Rich Roll?

  But there's a billion kinds of molds.

• 51:23Julie Piatt?

  Of course there, of course there's a billion kinds of mold. But do we know that eating any mold is a good idea? And so, the decision that I made after speaking to my-

• 51:32Rich Roll?

  Mold-free cheese.

• 51:33Julie Piatt?

  My trusted friends, and really the people that I know that are very serious in wellness, I asked them, I said, you know, for me to really come out with this book, do I need to include molds in it? And the answer from, you know, my team, my counsel, that I really, you know, trust was, absolutely not. You know, we don't need to be eating that. So what I came up with is a way to age and a way to get that flavor that is also healthy, that will fuel your body, that will support you in living, you know, a vit, you know, life of vitality and really support you in optimum health. And I don't think that ingesting mold is really where it's at.

• 52:16Rich Roll?

  What was the biggest sort of discovery that you made or mystery that you had to unpack or surprising thing in the process in this like journey of trying to learn about how to make this kind of cheese?

• 52:28Julie Piatt?

  I think it's just, you know, what happens when you, you know, after you've soaked the nuts and then you've added a probiotic in some cases, or you've, you know, mixed them into a mixture, just how full and cheesy and creamy the tastes are. It's, it's really, really shocking that there is no milk in these substances. It seems impossible that that could even be real. And I think, you know, I think, I think it's really the taste. I think the taste is really surprising, almost miraculously surprising.

• 53:04Rich Roll?

  Yeah, we had Dominic Thompson over to the house the other day. That podcast, I did the podcast with him. It probably won't be up by the time this one goes up. And for those who don't know, he's a, he's just a super cool dude in the vegan movement who's like really jacked up, like really buffed. He's a triathlete, but he's also like-

• 53:23Julie Piatt?

  He's like the Hulk.

• 53:24Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I mean, this guy can lift more weight than almost any human on the planet. Like he's, and he's just a great dude.

• 53:29Julie Piatt?

  Full of great energy.

• 53:30Rich Roll?

  And he's all about, he's just all about the vegan movement, like totally committed and just a really fascinating guy. I can't wait to show that podcast because his story is insane. But in any event, he's got a big Instagram following and he wanted to like do an Instagram story on, on Julie's cheeses. And you gave him some stuff to taste and he lit up like a Christmas tree. Like he didn't, he was not expecting it to taste that good. Like even he, like somebody who's out, you know, eating vegan cheese all the time and going to all the restaurants and, you know, all that kind of stuff. He was like, oh my God, like this is better than, this is, I can't believe how good this is, way better than I thought it was going to be. And I think that's going to be the experience of, of a lot of people.

• 54:10Julie Piatt?

  I hope so. I mean, you know, it seems to be the consensus and I'm, I'm extremely, I just feel, you know- Blessed and honored that I was able to devote, you know, two years of my life to, you know, going through this journey, experimenting and coming up with some very clear, basic, simple recipes and processes so people can have this kind of taste in their life and they don't have to give up. We're, you know, we're leveling up. We're going one step up. We're not, we're not giving up anything. We're getting an entirely new experience of healthy, creamy, delicious, cheesy meals and, and, and flavors.

• 54:52Rich Roll?

  Do you think you're ahead of the curve? Do you think like the mainstream, mainstream audience is ready for a book like this?

• 54:58Julie Piatt?

  Um, I think they are, you know, I think, I think always I'm ahead of the curve in, in everything that I do. I think maybe that should be my middle name.

• 55:06Rich Roll?

  Question about how far ahead?

• 55:07Julie Piatt?

  I think that should be my middle name. But anyway, no, I really do. And the reason that I do is because of the simplicity. Um, once again, once you get over the mind block of the dehydrator and you just see the process, all of your anxiety will calm down and you will be absolutely loving, uh, making cheeses from this book. Um, the other one really amazing surprise was there's a warm cheese that's made on the stove that's a cheddar. And, um, when you, the recipe is for, I think the recipe is a, is a sharp cheddar form cheese in the book, but there's a note that if you just take it out of the

• 55:47Julie Piatt?

  pan and spread it on your favorite grilled bread, you have the most delicious grilled cheese sandwich you've ever had. And the mixture has a velvety texture that melts in your mouth. So it's not a gooey gross, oh my God, I want to spit this out feeling. It literally melts in your mouth and you can feel the beautiful vibration of these pure ingredients and the way that your body's assimilating them. And the other thing that I was completely shocked about was I tasted more cheese than anybody. I mean, I was eating these nut cheeses, you know, primarily nut-based cheeses all day long, testing, testing, testing, testing, testing.

• 56:30Julie Piatt?

  I never had a stomach ache. I never ever was at the end of the day and thinking like, I cannot, you know, taste one more cheese.

• 56:38Rich Roll?

  Or gained weight.

• 56:39Julie Piatt?

  Or gained weight. And that to me was pretty shocking. I, I, my body proved to me the way it was assimilating these plant foods. And you have to remember, you know, I have a, I'm a very sensitive individual. Like if I grab a handful of nuts and I eat them and they haven't been soaked, I'm gonna get a stomach ache. Cause I'm sensitive. Like I can't do that. But you gotta understand, all of these nuts have been properly soaked. They've been soaked, then they have either apple cider vinegar or some lemon juice. They've been blended. So, you know, and there's various spices in some of them. So it's amazing just how digestible they truly are.

• 57:18Rich Roll?

  Mm-hmm. One of the sort of themes of the Plant Power Way was, you know, your kind of message to everybody was, these are my recipes, but the whole purpose of this book is to empower you. Like, take what I've done and then experiment, like change it, add something else to it. Like, go on your own journey with this. This is not the be all, end all, like how, you know, this teaspoon of that and that. Like, figure out, use this as a baseline and then expand, you know, like have your own creative experience with this. And part of that is to like empower people. Like, don't just listen to me. Like, take responsibility for this and take it to the next level. Like, make it your own, make it your own original version of this. Just use this as a launching pad for your

• 58:01Rich Roll?

  own journey. Is that the same message in this book? Or do you have to be like pretty, like dialed into doing, you know, following the directions specifically to make sure that it comes out the way that it's supposed to come out?

• 58:15Julie Piatt?

  Well, I think, I think there's definitely a lot of that in this book. And I have in particular, you know, I have cashew truffle cheese three ways. I had to give it three ways because I made it three different ways. And then my publisher was like, you know, which one of these do you want to use? And I said, I want to use all of them because I want to show people there's more than one way to do it. So, you know, that, I'm hoping that when people see those recipes, they can look and say, okay, she did it this way in this recipe, and then she shifted that in that recipe. So. You know, you can get more tools to, yes, create your own recipes and your own versions of what I've shown you. I also did yogurt two ways because, you know, there's more than

• 58:58Julie Piatt?

  one way to do it. And it's delicious cashew, but oh, it's so divine when it's all coconut. So again, the bases in all of these recipes can be switched up. You know, if you, if you like a cheese and it's in cashew, try it in almond, you know, and what I found is if I use almond, then I have to use a little bit more coconut oil, or mix it half and half. Do half almond, half cashew, or do half almond, half macadamia, or throw some hard coconut in there that's, you know, I'm talking about coconut meat like out of a brown coconut. And I used that in a couple almond ricottas, you know, because I wanted to, I wanted to experiment. I wanted to see what we could do. So yeah, there's many different ways to age, you know, like I said, you can do it with a probiotic, you can do

• 59:41Julie Piatt?

  it with rejuvenac, which I think I have that in one recipe, but it's really not my favorite. You guys can tell because it's just, it's too complicated for me. You know, I don't, I don't need it. So I can just, if I can use lemon juice, I'll use lemon juice. If I can use apple cider vinegar, I'll use that. And acidophilus is just, you know, that's pretty basic. So there's all different kinds of things that you can do. I hope that I've shown you a lot of creativity. Some of the cheeses, the spread cheeses, you can experiment kind of forming them into shapes. I made, I have one of, one recipe that's called, I think it's like an Aztec pyramid is what I named it. But it's a, like an appetizer cheese that you make, you know, just in one step. But I shaped it into the form of a

• 1:00:25Julie Piatt?

  pyramid, you know, and then dusted it with cumin and put a garnish in it. So again, don't be afraid to mold your cheeses. If you're plant-based cheese, you know, it looks lopsided, just get your spatula in there and form it up, you know, and garnish it or put some flowers on it. You're gonna love this cheese. It's, uh, this cheese is nuts. This cheese is nuts. This cheese is really nuts.

• 1:00:48Rich Roll?

  We should tell the backstory on that quickly and then we gotta wrap it up. But, but when you were in the process of, of, you know, experimentation and, and the early phases of putting this book together, we didn't have a title for the book, right?

• 1:01:00Julie Piatt?

  I didn't have a title for my book.

• 1:01:01Rich Roll?

  Yeah, I should, why am I saying we? Well, come on, you say we with my stuff, so. I'm saying we because I, I live in this house with you.

• 1:01:09Julie Piatt?

  You are we, honey. You, I am you and you are me.

• 1:01:12Rich Roll?

  Your book.

• 1:01:13Julie Piatt?

  And La Kesh.

• 1:01:14Rich Roll?

  But we had, Daryl Wean and Zoe Lister Jones were over. It might've been the day that we did that, did the podcast with Daryl for, we did the one after the election.

• 1:01:26Julie Piatt?

  I think they were just coming for dinner.

• 1:01:28Rich Roll?

  Or maybe they were just hanging out.

• 1:01:29Julie Piatt?

  I think I had just bribed them with some food.

• 1:01:30Rich Roll?

  Yeah, yeah, so for those that, that, that are new to the show or, you know, haven't, haven't listened to every episode, Daryl Wean and his, his partner Zoe Lister Jones are filmmakers. They are the dynamic duo behind the movie Consumed, which was all about big ag and GMOs. And I had them on the podcast twice to talk about that movie. And Zoe just wrote, directed, stars in, wrote all the songs, not all the songs, but almost all the songs and performed songs in this new movie called Band-Aid, which it's June 1st today, the date of recording this comes out tomorrow, this weekend. I don't know that it's a nationwide release. It might be like an arthouse release. And we went to the premiere the other night.

• 1:02:15Rich Roll?

  It was incredible movie. Everybody should go see it. She did a bang up job.

• 1:02:18Julie Piatt?

  It was amazing.

• 1:02:19Rich Roll?

  Her star is just rising.

• 1:02:20Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, her star is rising high.

• 1:02:21Rich Roll?

  Incredible. But in any event, Daryl, Julie was feeding Daryl some of her, when anyone comes over, she's like, try my cheese.

• 1:02:31Julie Piatt?

  I made like a cheese. I knew they were coming over and I had some cheeses and I put together a cheese spread and then I kinda teased them on Instagram because I knew they would be watching. So then, you know, I put something great on there. So they came in, they were starving and. They just started eating and you know, Daryl's always so spontaneous and amazing and funny. And then he, so he just kind of yells from the kitchen, I mean, from the living room. He says, Julie, he's like, do you have a title? And I said, no. And he's like, this cheese is nuts, like that. So.

• 1:02:57Rich Roll?

  Right. And that became the title. And so it all goes back to Daryl.

• 1:03:00Julie Piatt?

  Daryl, thank you. Thank you so much. Yeah.

• 1:03:02Rich Roll?

  Super catchy.

• 1:03:03Julie Piatt?

  Really, really sweet.

• 1:03:05Rich Roll?

  What, sorry, go ahead. What were you gonna say? I was gonna say, are you gonna do a cheese line? Are you gonna, are you gonna create products out of this?

• 1:03:12Julie Piatt?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Rich Roll?

  Is that the next evolution of this process?

• 1:03:15Julie Piatt?

  I believe it is. And I mean, I think I have to, I think I want to go back and just mention one thing if I can before I answer that question. And that is that, you know, you started this podcast in a rather serious way, in a solemn way. And, um, you know, we're talking about a cookbook, which is, you know, it's, it's food. Like, it's just food. So, you know, how serious is a cupcake?

• 1:03:36Rich Roll?

  What the big deal?

• 1:03:36Julie Piatt?

  Or a wheel of cheese. Um, but I wanted to say, it's like, when I dedicated this book, my dedication page, um, says to Gaia and all of her children. And for me, it was a very serious thing. It was, it was a very, um, a very deep intention that I had for this book. Um, that it would offer us the tools, um, as a, you know, as a culture to, uh, start to do things and shift the way that we've been doing things that have been causing harm. Um, when I shot the, the cow images for the book, I actually had this idea that I would, um, take Jaya up to Farm Sanctuary and call Gene Bauer, um, the most beautiful man on the planet.

• 1:04:21Julie Piatt?

  Compassionate, loving being.

• 1:04:23Rich Roll?

  Gene is a saint.

• 1:04:24Julie Piatt?

  He's such a sweet man. Um, anyway, and he said, yes, that I could come out and photograph, you know, do some photographing with the cows. And when I arrived, there were six handlers there and they were all very kind of serious. And they immediately told me that Jaya couldn't come in the ring. And I was thinking, okay, this is not going well. And then they said, well, your photographer can't come in, but if he, okay, he can come in, but he can't bring the bounce. Um, so, uh, I just did kind of like a quick meditation and set my energy. In the intention of the book, and then we went into the ring. And much to everybody's surprise, the cows became very docile. And all of a sudden.

• 1:05:04Rich Roll?

  And we should say, like, these cows are huge. Like, they're like twice the size of what you imagine they're going to be.

• 1:05:11Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, normally, I think the reason is because we slaughter most of the cows in our lives before they are full grown. So we don't even really know how big they get. None of us have had that experience. So when I went in the ring, you know, suddenly, they were very calm. And so I asked, you know, one of the handlers, I said, can I put my arm around the cow? And they were like, yes. So there I was, and I was having this interaction with the cows, and I was kissing them, and I had my arms around them. And one of them took my hat off my head, and I was just having this amazing interaction. And I didn't just have it with one, I had it with all five different, they were different varieties of cows that were in the ring. And when we walked out, I said to all the handlers, I said, thank you so much for that amazing experience.

• 1:05:55Julie Piatt?

  And they said, no, thank you, because we never have seen the cows react like that with a first time visitor, like, ever. And they sent me an email afterwards, you know, saying the same thing. You know, she said, Julie, you literally had the cows on their knees. And I was giggling, because I was thinking, they were like, dudes, she's doing a nut cheese book, like, everyone chill, let her come in, you know? So it was very, very sweet. But, you know, this is a very serious issue, and it is affecting us. And not only environmentally, not only in our health, and not only in the violence with these animals, but it's affecting our ability to connect with our deep empathy, which is really such a beautiful quality.

• 1:06:40Julie Piatt?

  It is probably the unique quality of what it means to be a divine human being. And when we've come to ways of living where we feel like we have a right to brutalize another living being just because we have that right, you know, there's some pecking order. We've lost our sensitivity. We've lost our compassion. And I say this without judgment, without anything but just love and openness. You know, I was raised, I grew up on game meat. You know, I've said it many times before, I'm not a stranger to eating meat or being on this planet when we're interacting with various products, you know, that are animal,

• 1:07:22Julie Piatt?

  made from animals. But what I'm saying is that this is really the moment for the next evolution of cheese. This is the moment for cheese 2.0. If there ever was a time, that's why we can't be ahead of the curve. It's, we don't have the bandwidth. We don't have the luxury to be ahead of the curve. We have to make this our life now, today. And, you know, that's why, you know, we're promoting it the way that we are. That's why we're putting the time in, you know. It's not just enough to make a book. We have to get it where we need, you know, where we can. And I want to thank everybody who has joined with us on Thunderclap. And thank you, Rich, for everything that you've done to, you

• 1:08:05Julie Piatt?

  know, spread the word. And I deeply, deeply appreciate it. And I really put everything that I have into this book in the hopes that it would provide families, you know, a support and a way to live better, to live more in alignment, kinder, gentler, more compassionate, and ultimately, connect all of us to our authentic self, which is what we need so desperately. We need everybody so desperately to be who they really are. And food is the first portal to discovering your best, most authentic self. And I really hope that this

• 1:08:50Julie Piatt?

  book is something that supports you in that journey.

• 1:08:56Rich Roll?

  Beautifully said. I think that's a good way to end it, except for the fact that you didn't answer my original question.

• 1:09:02Julie Piatt?

  I forgot. Would you ask me?

• 1:09:05Rich Roll?

  This is going to be a product line.

• 1:09:06Julie Piatt?

  Oh, yeah. Actually, yeah, it's kind of, this is a super exciting day today. Actually, I need to, I need to take a moment and breathe and meditate and just be, just in, you know, sit in the gratitude. But Lea and I designed a label for some sample cheeses that I'm sending out to networks. I have a big, I really would like to go on Ellen. I really would like to get on that show. I think this is a wonderful topic and I think we would have a really great time. So.

• 1:09:36Rich Roll?

  Well, let me just interject. I mean, it's a perfect sort of television segment. Like you've seen on the Today Show, all these morning shows where they do the, they test between like Beyond Meat and a regular burger. Like it makes for good TV. Like taste this, can you believe this isn't beef? And like you could do the exact same thing with cheese. Like most people can't wrap their heads around the idea that cheese could taste good that is plant-based, you know? And so I think it's a natural fit for any of those shows. I mean, it's really hard to get, you know, on those programs, but fingers crossed that you have the opportunity to, you know, step onto that, you know, huge stage and get to share, you know, the work that.

• 1:10:16Julie Piatt?

  Yeah, I'm putting it out there. I mean, I'm willing to do that. I'm willing to do it. I think it would be successful. I think it would be a great platform. And again, I'm not attached to it, but I've been preparing these sample boxes of various cheeses. So today, the labels arrived. Srimati's This Cheese Is Nuts, 100% plant-based. And I do have an assembly line. So we Insta-storied some of those and those are just samples. So I don't have a cheese.

• 1:10:45Rich Roll?

  It's like going out to press.

• 1:10:46Julie Piatt?

  It's going out to press, it's going out to media. But it kind of reminded me of when I was a fashion designer and I had put together my first sample line of eight pieces. And I was going to get my first order at I Magnet. And funny, funny enough, the color scheme of this label and that collection match seamlessly.

• 1:11:07Rich Roll?

  Not intentionally, though.

• 1:11:08Julie Piatt?

  No, not intentionally. I just realized it today. So, so anyway, I'm open. I think the answer to that question is if the right partner comes forth because you and I have had an amazing life journey that has crafted us and chiseled us into the people that we are today, working in service. And. Really, the vibration and the alignment has to be very, very clear. It would have to be a match made in heaven, but I'm sure that these things are on the way.

• 1:11:43Rich Roll?

  I can see it happening. All right, well, we got to wrap it up here. I'm so proud of you. You did a beautiful job on this book. I mean, in terms of the presentation of it, it's next level from The Plant Power Way. The photography is insane, you know? And so if people enjoyed The Plant Power Way and liked the sort of aesthetics of it, this is beyond when it comes to that and really well done.

• 1:12:05Julie Piatt?

  Thank you.

• 1:12:06Rich Roll?

  And I'm so excited for people to finally get an opportunity to enjoy it, for it to be out in the world. And I'm excited for you and, and, you know, not just for, you know, what this means for, for you and future books, but, you know, the, these tools are, you know, powerful and they are life transformative. And I, you know, I can't even approach, you know, the beautiful way in which you already articulated it, so I'll leave it at that. Everybody pick up the book. It's really phenomenal. It's available at bookstores everywhere. You can get it on Amazon, Barnes & Noble, IndieBound, or your favorite independent bookseller, because it's important to support your independent booksellers, is it not?

• 1:12:48Julie Piatt?

  It is very important. And we, we have a couple of events actually, because this will go up at the right time, right?

• 1:12:54Rich Roll?

  Well, this is going, I think this is going up on the 13th. So we have, you're doing a, you're doing a signing at Books & Books in Miami on June 17th. We're doing a dinner. We're doing a, like, an event at Sacred Space in Miami on the 14th. So by the time people listen to this, that it will be, that will sort of be happening. But I'll put, I'll put links up to both of those things in the show notes. A couple more things I want to mention. For the, for the sort of why behind all of this, you guys can read Neil Barnard's new book, The Cheese Trap. He goes into all this sort of scientific details about what dairy is doing to our bodies from a health perspective.

• 1:13:37Rich Roll?

  You can watch Cowspiracy to get a clear, definitive take on the impact of factory farming and dairy on our, on our environment. And you should watch What the Health, which is the follow-up to Cowspiracy. You can find that at whatthehealthfilm.com. You can stream it there. Or you can buy the DVD there and that goes into also the health implications of our sort of addiction to dairy and animal products. And the way forward is this cheese is nuts. So, thank you for joining me today, Julie.

• 1:14:10Julie Piatt?

  Thanks for having me on, Rich.

• 1:14:12Rich Roll?

  And we'll talk to you guys soon. Peace. Plants.

• 1:14:17Julie Piatt?

  Namaste.

• 1:14:29Rich Roll?

  Alrighty, I hope you guys enjoyed that. Please do me a favor and give Julie a shout out on Twitter and on Instagram. She's at Srimati, S-R-I-M-A-T-I. If you guys aren't following her on Instagram, you should. She's been sharing lots of cheese recipes. So if you're into what we talked about today, her photography is beautiful and she's providing a lot of great content. So give her a follow. And while you're at it, again, please pick up the new book, This Cheese Is Nuts. Very exciting, release week. We're so proud of Julie. And again, hope you got a lot out of that conversation. I want to thank all the people that helped put on today's episode. Jason Camiolo for audio engineering and production and help with the show notes and the ad copy and the WordPress page, all

• 1:15:12Rich Roll?

  that good stuff. Sean Patterson for help on graphics. Theme music, as always, by Analemma. Thanks for the love, you guys. I appreciate the support for all the work that I do, all the content that I work hard to create and offer to you guys. And I appreciate your support of Julie and all the work that she has put into her creative expression, particularly with respect to this brand new book, This Cheese Is Nuts. I really do love it. I really think you guys are going to enjoy it tremendously. So if you're on the fence about it, pick it up. It's pretty cheap, too. And I don't think you're going to be disappointed. I think you're going to be delighted. And with that said, I'm off to Miami tomorrow. I'm recording this on Sunday. I'll be in Miami all week. We're going to be doing that live podcast from our book launch party and I'll be uploading that soon. Until then, have

• 1:15:57Rich Roll?

  a great week, everybody. Make the most of it. Talk to you soon. Peace. Plants.