527 - Disgraceland

NEW SHOW ALERT! In celebration of Exactly Right’s newest podcast, Disgraceland, Karen and Georgia talk to creator/host Jake Brennan about the true crime side of the music industry, his life in a punk band and using Elton John’s bathroom. From Double Elvis, Disgraceland is now on the Exactly Right Network and iHeartPodcasts. New episodes of Disgraceland drop every Tuesday, with bonus episodes on Thursday and Rewinds on Sunday. Follow, rate and review Disgraceland wherever you get your podcasts. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is Exactly Right.

• 0:06Speaker 01

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• 0:36Speaker 02

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 1:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Hey guys, it's Karen and Georgia, and we are so thrilled that Jake Brennan's legendary true crime music podcast, DisgraceLand, is now on the Exactly Right Network.

• 1:21Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. If you like true crime and music, you're going to love DisgraceLand.

• 1:25Georgia Hardstark?

  New episodes of DisgraceLand drop every Tuesday with bonus episodes on Thursday and rewinds on Sunday.

• 1:31Karen Kilgariff?

  And at the end of this episode, we're going to play the DisgraceLand trailer for you, so make sure you stick around and listen to that.

• 1:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And after you listen, head over to DisgraceLand feed and hit Follow so you can binge over 250 award-winning episodes.

• 1:43Karen Kilgariff?

  And you'll be glad you did. And don't forget to follow DisgraceLand right now on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:58Speaker 05

  My favorite.

• 2:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Hello.

• 2:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 2:10Georgia Hardstark?

  To My Favorite Murder.

• 2:11Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:12Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:14Karen Kilgariff?

  And today, we are very excited. We have a big announcement. Two of our favorite podcasts in the world joining the Exactly Right Network. And it's such an exciting thing to be telling you about right now.

• 2:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Everyone, murderinos, this is Jake Brennan of DisgraceLand and Hollywoodland. And he's joining Exactly Right Media.

• 2:34Speaker 06

  I am indeed. Yes, and I'm very happy about it. I'm very psyched. I can't believe I'm here. This is completely surreal, actually. I feel like this has been in the works since we kind of met for the first time. It's just the universe and all the people pulling the right strings and pushing us in the right direction. And I could not be happier to be here. And just thanks. Yeah, I'm psyched.

• 2:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, thank you.

• 2:57Georgia Hardstark?

  It's perfect. It's like a perfect mix. We were like big fans from the beginning and like true crime podcast friends for a while. So we're glad you picked us.

• 3:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, of course. I'm glad you picked me. It's been, ever since we did that event back in when my book came out, you guys were so generous with your time. And you came to that bookstore opening that I did and probably boosted sales by like 100%. So thank you for that, which is cool. But we had just a great time. We had great chemistry onstage together. So this is, this is awesome.

• 3:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And we know our audience loves you because you did that during COVID. I don't know if you remember doing that crossover with us, where you told us that amazing hometown. And it's one of the most popular episodes we've ever posted.

• 3:41Speaker 06

  That blows my mind.

• 3:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 3:42Speaker 06

  Yeah, I still run into people in my hometown who are like, who ask me about that episode, which is, which is good and bad because I like to remain breathing. You know, and I don't want certain people to hear that upstairs.

• 3:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, you want to tell us like when you started DisgraceLand? And like what your intentions were?

• 4:02Speaker 06

  I started in 2018. And it was really just to make a music podcast that I wanted to listen to. And I grew up, obviously, You know, loving music. I played music. It's what I did with my whole young adult life.

• 4:18Karen Kilgariff?

  What was your first band name?

• 4:19Speaker 06

  Cast Iron Hike. It was a hardcore band from Boston.

• 4:22Georgia Hardstark?

  And Snow's Them.

• 4:23Karen Kilgariff?

  For real?

• 4:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh shit.

• 4:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 4:26Karen Kilgariff?

  We were on Victory, right?

• 4:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, we were on Victory Records. And yeah, so we toured and...

• 4:31Karen Kilgariff?

  What did you play or sing?

• 4:33Speaker 06

  I was the singer. I was the frontman in that band.

• 4:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing.

• 4:36Speaker 06

  And was, you know, was in bands throughout, you know, my twenties and thirties. And then I had a family and I had a job at an ad agency and I was doing music licensing and I was really bad at it and I knew I was gonna get fired. And I was like...

• 4:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so corporate.

• 4:48Speaker 06

  I know. But it was like the coolest ad agency too. It wasn't corporate, but I still sucked at it. And I was like, what the hell am I gonna do? And I knew, this is like, right when podcasts, you guys started in 16, right? I remember you guys were around and I was into like S-Town and Serial and Crime Town. And I was like, I'm gonna start a podcast. And I, my only ambition was that I thought it might lead to some sort of work in audio.

• 5:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 5:15Speaker 06

  And I launched it and it was just this music and true crime mix. And the true crime thing came from, I knew I wanted to tell music stories, but you know, my whole life, I've been the guy like in the, in the van with my bandmates being like, I gotta, gotta tell you the story about this thing. To the point where they're like, dude, shut up. Shut up.

• 5:35Karen Kilgariff?

  We know that well. We know that feeling. Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 06

  And I knew that the stories I wanted to tell, I didn't want to just do like music biographies and stuff that's already been done a million times. I wanted to tell the stories that I wanted to hear. So that's where the true crime piece came from it. And then I remember it was like a month after I launched the first episode and it took off and I, I came out here to LA to, to meet with some folks. I remember being in my hotel room and you guys had mentioned Disgrace Land. I think you, you mentioned the, the Norwegian black metal episode or something like that.

• 6:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 6:07Speaker 06

  And that was the biggest thing. I was like, my favorite murder is talking about Disgrace Land. Oh my gosh. And it just blew my mind. And here we are, all these years later, which is pretty amazing.

• 6:19Karen Kilgariff?

  I didn't realize that that happened that way for you.

• 6:21Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 6:22Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so, like, yeah, we got the same thing from, um...

• 6:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, Jack O'Brien?

• 6:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, from Cracked.

• 6:27Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 6:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, he did that for us. So we're honored to do that. Yes, too.

• 6:32Speaker 06

  Very cool. Very cool. Thank you.

• 6:33Karen Kilgariff?

  We're paying it for Jack O'Brien style.

• 6:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly. He'll be psyched to hear that. He's a good dude.

• 6:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, he is. He's the best.

• 6:41Karen Kilgariff?

  What was your first show?

• 6:42Speaker 06

  Well, this is kind of, this is gonna sound a little weird and it might sound like I'm making this shit up, but I swear to God I'm not. Like, I saw the Ramones when I was 10 years old and I have a trepidation in telling this story because I literally got, I got beat up for this later in, in the course of my adolescence from like, you know, once, once the punk rockers started coming around. Like, I saw the Ramones because my dad opened up for them. My dad was in a band.

• 7:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, wow.

• 7:06Speaker 06

  And I remember, I was too young to really know what it was, but my dad was cool enough and, and still is, and just cool enough to know that he should bring his son to this, right? And I remember him telling me, because I was into the Beach Boys at the time, I remember him telling me, "They're like the Beach Boys, they're just really loud."

• 7:21Karen Kilgariff?

  That's true.

• 7:22Speaker 06

  It is kinda true. And, um, but it was at a point in the Ramones' career, like in the early to mid 80s, when they were kind of like, they weren't what they were in the beginning or what they were by the time the 90s rolled around. But it was a great experience and just being backstage and like looking up at, you know, 20-foot-tall Joey Ramone and being like, "Oh, my God, what the..." So, I go back to, you know, my little central Massachusetts hometown and whatever, it's just the Ramones. But then, you know, five years later or whatever, when I'm like in my early teens and all my friends start listening to punk rock, all my older friends, who all of a sudden weren't, they were like, "ACDC isn't cool." I'm like, "Fuck you, ACDC's not cool. What are you saying?" So that was already a point of contention because I wouldn't give up heavy metal, but I was like, "You know, I saw the Ramones." You know, I was like, "No, you didn't. You're lying."

• 8:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Immediately fist fly.

• 8:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, pretty much, pretty much. Um, Birded Hill, Clinton, Mass. Yeah, that was what it was like back in the 80s.

• 8:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Serious.

• 8:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, boys.

• 8:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Serious group of boys.

• 8:18Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly.

• 8:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, what was your first true crime story that piqued your interest or got you obsessed with those kinds of stories?

• 8:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, we were talking about this the other night and it was, the first one was Helter Skelter and the Manson story. And reading Helter Skelter, I was grounded a lot as a kid and I spent a lot of time alone in my bedroom, reading and listening to music. And this is the result, America.

• 8:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 8:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? Like, we're college dropouts and I'm like, "Tell me someone who's doing better than us."

• 8:52Speaker 06

  Wait till you get asked back to speak at the schools you dropped out of.

• 8:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Santa Monica City College, here I go. Sac State, I have nothing to tell you.

• 9:00Speaker 06

  Honorary degrees. So, helter-skelter, and I remember reading In Cold Blood shortly after that by Truman Capote. And I was actually thinking about that last night because I just started watching the feud thing with Capote, which is fantastic. So, helter-skelter and In Cold Blood, but I was always, I had a subscription to Rolling Stone, I had a subscription to Spin, and I had all those cool, like, Rolling Stone anthologies that they would kind of mass market in the 80s and 90s. So, you could read all the backstories. And I remember reading this story about Jerry Lee Lewis allegedly getting away with murdering one of his wives. And it was so wild to me that this was in Rolling Stone.

• 9:43Speaker 06

  And it was also so wild to me that his nickname is The Killer. I was like, are you fucking?

• 9:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, everyone knows and no one's trying to hide it.

• 9:52Speaker 06

  Yes, exactly.

• 9:53Georgia Hardstark?

  And he's getting away with it because he's famous.

• 9:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Because he's famous, it's almost like a cute joke.

• 9:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 9:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Of like, can you believe this guy?

• 9:59Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 10:00Karen Kilgariff?

  He plays the piano, but he also murders women.

• 10:02Speaker 06

  Right. And then you say it, and people are like...

• 10:04Georgia Hardstark?

  How dare you.

• 10:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, they're like, no. I'm like, yes. So, that was the first episode of DisgraceLand. That's actually where I got the name DisgraceLand, is because that's what they called Jerry Lee's home in Mesbit, Mississippi, which was a few miles from Elvis's Graceland, and it stood in contrast to that.

• 10:20Karen Kilgariff?

  That's such a good episode, too.

• 10:21Georgia Hardstark?

  What a good, like, not coming-of-age story. What's the origin story?

• 10:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 10:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that's a good one.

• 10:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, but the story in Rolling Stone on Jerry Lee Lewis was super true-crimey, super true-crimey. And that's sort of like my thing, like, I'm researching the Foo Fighters right now, and, you know, I was thinking about this morning in anticipation of coming on here, and I got really excited about this story about Dave Grohl in Europe with the hardcore band Scream that he played for, the DC hardcore band. And he's getting chased down an alley from heroin addicts with a knife. And I'm like, this is amazing. I get all excited, and I'm taking notes about it. And, you know, you can tell the story of young Dave Grohl, sort of his origin story, going on tour in Europe with a hardcore band, and be like, oh, they played in this venue, and there were 20 people there, but they played their hearts out. Or you can be like, yeah, they were playing this venue, okay, but beforehand, they were

• 11:14Speaker 06

  getting chased by heroin addicts with knives.

• 11:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Really enhances the performance. Yeah.

• 11:20Speaker 06

  The crime bit, and it's more interesting to me at least.

• 11:23Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so true. Like, asking those same questions that every interviewer asks instead asking some kind of weirder shit that like makes it more interesting or makes it like less of a biography than a...

• 11:35Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah. It's our own take on biography. It's the way you guys tell stories as well. I mean, it's not apples to apples, but your point of view is, both of your points of view is so strong and unique that, I mean, there are a lot of people who tell true crime stories, but obviously they're not as entertaining. And that's because of the point of view, I think, which makes it awesome.

• 11:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Same.

• 11:57Speaker 06

  Of course.

• 11:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, your point of view, there is a piece of it where it's like, I didn't know if you were a musicologist. I couldn't tell if you were like in a band when I heard that first episode and like first got into it. It was a brand new thing all the way around. It's like, is this guy a journalist? Is he, he sounds like a musician, like all those things. Which is kind of, like we've said this before, what I love about podcasting where it's like, if you have a point of view and it's strong enough and you're interested enough and you've already done your time.

• 12:26Speaker 06

  Right.

• 12:26Karen Kilgariff?

  The research was your life growing up and being in bands and loving music.

• 12:30Speaker 06

  Right. And dropping out of college and being in a shitty van with your band. And I remember before, you know, back to the ad agency thing and like knowing I was gonna lose my job, I asked one of my best friends, Adam, who recorded a bunch of my music back in the day, and my wife, I asked them the same question. I was like, if you could hire me for one job, what would it be? And they both gave me a version of the same answer. And Adam was like, I'd pay to just go in the control room and tell me stories.

• 12:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck, that's so cool.

• 12:57Speaker 06

  And my wife was like, I'd pay to tell stories. I was like, what? And I was like, I have to do this.

• 13:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. That's a great way to figure out what you want to do with your life. Like, what are the things, like, I mean, I guess my thing would just be snacks. So you can't really fucking just talk about snacks.

• 13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Or it's somebody else telling you, I wanna hear, I wanna watch you eat snacks. I wanna hear you talk, review snacks. I don't wanna hear you eat snacks.

• 13:21Speaker 06

  Well, that could be a thing.

• 13:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 13:22Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a different, that's a different part of you too.

• 13:24Speaker 06

  Right.

• 13:26Speaker 01

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  Goodbye.

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• 15:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 15:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, it's interesting, though, but you come to that where you're kind of like trying to crowdsource, "Hey, I want to do a thing. I'm not sure." Cut to years later where you are, do we have that picture of Jake and his very famous friend that he got to meet because of this podcast? Sir Elton John is a fan of DisgraceLand.

• 16:03Speaker 06

  How did this happen? Yeah, that was... How do we do this? What you can't see in that picture is that I am on no sleep after like two days of being on a plane. It's complete madness how this took place. I can't even believe it happened. It's like a fever dream. I was actually on my way to Denver from Boston to go do a live version of DisgraceLand. And I was with my buddy Jackson and we were gonna go see the Rolling Stones. I've missed out on seeing the Rolling Stones, my favorite band, so many times, for various reasons. I literally, my friend Adam, was once like, you know, the studio we recorded at, I woke up the next day, had all these messages, "Ron Wood was at the studio."

• 16:46Speaker 06

  And I just missed it. It's the worst. So anyhow, I'm going out to play this show in Denver and I, and then we're gonna go see the Rolling Stones and then I was gonna go to LA and meet with some people. And I'm at Logan parking my car and I get a call from Connell from iHeart and he was like, "Hey, you know, if you could interview Elton John, if that opportunity came up, would you do that?" I know you don't do interviews, but would you? I'm like, "Fuck, yeah, I would do that. Are you kidding me?" He's like, "Can you be in Milan in 48 hours?" Oh, my God. I'm like, "Yes." Yes! And no idea how I was going to do that. Yeah.

• 17:30Speaker 06

  But just say yes. This is a lesson. Like, don't worry. You'll figure it out.

• 17:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Details come later.

• 17:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, so I, at the time, I was working with somebody, we were, we were working on an adaptation of DisgraceLand for, for TV and he's friends with Elton John and he had just stayed with Elton John and had played him a DisgraceLand episode. So when Elton was doing the promotion for the biopic that came out... About Elton John. I don't know how the mechanics of it happened, but they were like, who's gonna interview? And my name came up and, and that was it. So I had it. It's so cool. I had to go to Denver, do the show.

• 18:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, you did it. I was gonna say, did you do a makeup show for them? Cause.

• 18:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, really. Cause it's like, everything's canceled.

• 18:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I think they would have understood.

• 18:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Elton's calling.

• 18:12Speaker 06

  No, they were amazing. And they had no idea. I was just like on cloud nine. So we figured out we could do it. I couldn't go see the Stones. Jackson still came with me because he's awesome.

• 18:20Karen Kilgariff?

  To Milan?

• 18:21Speaker 06

  No, not to Milan. He's not that awesome.

• 18:26Speaker 06

  To Denver, I did the show. I got up at like three in the morning, slept for like an hour and I had to go back to JFK and then fly to Milan. And it was already tight. And by the time I got to, it was one of those, one of those things where you get to the airport, it's delayed and you're going like, I can make, I can, I can still do this. And then you get on the plane and you're delayed on the plane. So I'm like literally texting Elton John's husband, being like, dude, I don't know if I'm gonna fucking get there. And then I'm texting my wife. I'm like, I'm, I don't know if I'm gonna fucking get there, but I'm going to Milan to have breakfast, apparently.

• 18:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 18:55Speaker 06

  And I'll be back. And I fully did not expect to be able to do it. I get there. It's the whole thing. The guy with the sign at the airport. You know, I get picked up. They're just flying like, you know, Italian driver fast times 10, cause we're late. And I don't want to give it away where he was staying, but I go there and I'm brought up to this suite. And they walk me in and I, I walk in, it's, it's more than a suite. It's like a whole apartment. And I get to like the study and he's sitting there and I see he's reading an email that I had sent to somebody with the questions, like my email. And he's like, oh, hi Jake, how are you? And I'm like, what do I call you? Sir? Do I call you? He's like, Elton. I'm like, Elton, where's your bathroom?

• 19:41Speaker 06

  Postscript, I go to use the restroom and he's like outside in his office suite type situation. And I'm in the restroom. I'm sleep deprived. I'm a mess. And I'm like, I couldn't figure out how to flush the toilet. It's one of those European deals.

• 19:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Does Milan have a different flushing system?

• 20:00Speaker 06

  All of Europe. It's like, what are they doing with their plumbing? I don't know.

• 20:03Karen Kilgariff?

  It's rich people stuff.

• 20:04Speaker 06

  It's very old. Yeah, so I'm like, what? I'm like, okay, I gotta, I gotta go out and I have to ask Elton John how to flush the fucking toilet. My other option is I just pretend and then Elton John's gonna be like, who is this barbarian who doesn't flush the toilet?

• 20:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Disgusting. There's no good option there.

• 20:19Speaker 06

  There's no good option. So thankfully, I figured it out. It was like, the flusher was like, flush, pun intended, I guess, on the back of, like, wallpapered.

• 20:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it was like a rich person's flusher.

• 20:31Speaker 06

  It was this secret, like, doop. And it worked and I went out and we did the interview and it, it went off without a hitch.

• 20:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank god. That could have ended really differently.

• 20:39Speaker 06

  Yes, yes. Oh, before we go any further, I have stuff for you guys.

• 20:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yay.

• 20:44Speaker 06

  Is that cool?

• 20:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 20:47Speaker 06

  I got these for both of you. This, alright, so when we did that show in LA, I tried doing this then. I went record shopping for you guys.

• 21:03Georgia Hardstark?

  That's great. Yes, I love this.

• 21:05Speaker 06

  And I flew from San Francisco to LA and I left, like, all the records on the plane.

• 21:14Speaker 06

  So I'm like, I'm doing it this time. I'm doing it this time because I knew I was gonna see you. So, okay, so I got the-

• 21:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Are these the exact same ones that you picked?

• 21:19Speaker 06

  These are not the exact same ones. These are cooler, I think.

• 21:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 21:21Speaker 06

  I don't remember really what the last ones were, but these are, these all have either some, some significance with you guys, the show, the whole, you know, whatever. They all, they all have some meaning. So Karen, I know you have some Stevie Nicks badassery in your past.

• 21:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, I do.

• 21:39Speaker 06

  So I saw that and I was like, this is, you know, it's got Edge of Seventeen on it.

• 21:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god.

• 21:45Speaker 06

  I think there's an aunt with a Chevy SS Super Sport in your-

• 21:48Karen Kilgariff?

  My cousin Lisa, who had this eight-track in her Chevy Super Sport with the back jacked up, that she used to drive me to 4H meetings going 120 miles an hour on the backroads of Petaluma. Also stopped dragging my heart around on this album, which is one of my favorite songs of all time.

• 22:04Speaker 06

  Amazing.

• 22:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Tell everyone up in the audience what it is.

• 22:07Karen Kilgariff?

  This is this Stevie Nicks album, Bella Donna.

• 22:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, well, we're talking about the greatness of Stevie Nicks.

• 22:12Georgia Hardstark?

  We're talking about who took this picture.

• 22:15Speaker 06

  Yes. It wasn't Tom Petty.

• 22:18Karen Kilgariff?

  So amazing.

• 22:19Speaker 06

  Okay, this is another same from the same era. This is a recent episode of DisgraceLand.

• 22:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 06

  This is The Pretenders. Fantastic album. And just Chrissie Hynde's badassery has transmuted itself onto you in some fashion.

• 22:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So. Oh, what an honor.

• 22:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I love this. I was just listening to this episode and she is just such a badass.

• 22:40Speaker 06

  She really is. And a lot of people don't know, I mean, she was almost in The Clash.

• 22:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I know.

• 22:44Speaker 06

  She was almost in The Sex Pistols. She was almost in The Damned. And you're thinking like, oh, that would have been awesome. And I'm like, no, because then The Pretenders wouldn't have happened.

• 22:51Karen Kilgariff?

  And when you watch those videos of her from the 80s, like, first of all, thank you so much because this might be the best compliment I've ever gotten in my life to even be slightly associated with Chrissie Hynde. But when you watch those videos of her and those Pretender songs, they're so original and individual to her. Like, I don't see her being in other people's bands.

• 23:11Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 23:12Karen Kilgariff?

  It's her.

• 23:13Speaker 06

  The word icon gets overused these days, in my opinion. She is iconic. She truly is.

• 23:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 06

  And this, I don't know if you know this, but this is a quintessential LA record. And Arthur Lee from Love has a kind of true crime past as well, so.

• 23:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Say what it is.

• 23:28Speaker 06

  So there you go.

• 23:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Love. Love.

• 23:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, with Arthur Lee.

• 23:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Reel to reel is the band. When it was like this, I thought it was The Go-Go's. The first album where I'm like, yes, you've named.

• 23:39Karen Kilgariff?

  But now I'll listen to this because it's something I don't know Arthur Lee.

• 23:42Speaker 06

  I guarantee you that Charlotte Caffey from The Go-Go's was listening to that album when she was writing a lot of the riffs that were on the first Go-Go's album, for sure.

• 23:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Sorry, can you just look at this group of people real quick?

• 23:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 23:54Karen Kilgariff?

  This is like LA 1972?

• 23:56Speaker 06

  Mmm-ish, yeah.

• 23:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I've met Charles Manson.

• 23:59Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 23:59Georgia Hardstark?

  They thought he was a fucking.

• 24:00Karen Kilgariff?

  74.

• 24:02Speaker 06

  74.

• 24:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Amazing. Thank you.

• 24:04Speaker 06

  You got it. All right, so Georgia.

• 24:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Who am I?

• 24:07Speaker 06

  Moving on, who am I?

• 24:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Get to know yourselves through Jake Brennan. This is the best game.

• 24:11Speaker 06

  I don't want that pressure, man.

• 24:12Georgia Hardstark?

  This is Liza Minnelli. I'm going to be offended.

• 24:15Karen Kilgariff?

  It's all show tunes.

• 24:17Speaker 06

  Kinda. Uh, Goth show tunes by The Cramps.

• 24:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 24:21Speaker 06

  So I know about the Danzig and Henry Rollins lore in My Favorite Murder. And I actually was looking for a Danzig album, couldn't find it. This is actually better.

• 24:27Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't, yeah.

• 24:28Speaker 06

  The first Cramps record is just, you cannot mess with this album.

• 24:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. This is amazing. This is The Cramps' greatest hits. I don't own this. It's so beautiful. I'm honored. Where is this? What's, what, is this the ballroom?

• 24:39Speaker 06

  Uh, the mental institution?

• 24:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, this is not a mental institution.

• 24:42Speaker 06

  No, it's not the mental institution one, but it's just, I'm not exactly sure where that picture's from, but great songs on that album.

• 24:47Georgia Hardstark?

  I fucking love this. And I love that they were in Glendale.

• 24:51Speaker 06

  Yeah, where they were living later on.

• 24:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Just hanging out around here.

• 24:54Speaker 06

  I gotta say, it is serial killer-y around here.

• 24:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Isn't it?

• 24:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Burbank.

• 24:59Speaker 06

  It really is. It's truly like...

• 25:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Lot of cement and like long blocks of nothing.

• 25:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, dirt, there's dirt lots. We're like, what's over in the corner over there? Just keep driving.

• 25:10Speaker 06

  Yeah, there's a lot of places to dump bodies.

• 25:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. Or like the Hillside Strangler had their auto shop right around here.

• 25:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Very close to here.

• 25:19Speaker 06

  Really?

• 25:19Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, and that alone is like, what portal to hell opened where that took place?

• 25:24Speaker 06

  Exactly right. You gotta be careful. You can get sucked into that portal.

• 25:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 06

  Speaking of portals to hell, Evan Dando's, uh, this is Come On, Feel the Lemonheads, which is not, not the one with all the hits, but it's still amazing. It's not, it's a shame about Ray. I actually think this is better. And it's a 90s connection, Gen X, you know.

• 25:41Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that. I am.

• 25:43Speaker 06

  And, uh, and, and I'm from Boston, so.

• 25:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my God, it's beautiful. Thank you.

• 25:48Karen Kilgariff?

  And also Evan Dando's one of the most beautiful people on the planet.

• 25:52Speaker 06

  He really, truly is. You know, I toured with him for a quick, like three or four days, just me, him, and my friend Greg Conley was tour managing. And in addition to all the insanity times a million that you could imagine from him, he was the sweetest guy and he never said a negative thing about anybody.

• 26:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow, that's hard.

• 26:13Karen Kilgariff?

  How?

• 26:13Georgia Hardstark?

  To do.

• 26:14Speaker 06

  And it really, I even baited him a couple of times. I was like, "Reenroll Stone, I wonder about this asshole." You know what I mean? He like, wouldn't go there.

• 26:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't think I could be friends with someone, cause like, that's how I bond with people. It's like, just talking some shit, you know?

• 26:25Speaker 06

  It was a real eye opener for me. It really was.

• 26:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Classy.

• 26:28Speaker 06

  It was such a strong thing that it wasn't an accident. You know what I mean? Like, he must've had some governing instinct when he was a kid to kind of make him that way, which is, which is cool.

• 26:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Or maybe it's just his life as a beautiful person where he's like, everybody's okay.

• 26:40Speaker 06

  Right.

• 26:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Where you're just like, you need to get the kitchen teeth a couple of times.

• 26:43Speaker 06

  Right. What's wrong with life when doors just fly open for you and supermodels want to sleep with you? Everybody wants to give you all their drugs.

• 26:49Karen Kilgariff?

  They give you all drugs and food all the time. It's like, not my experience.

• 26:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah. Well, this just didn't call me up and invite me on tour, dude. I don't know what you're talking about.

• 26:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, this is so cool.

• 26:57Speaker 06

  All right.

• 26:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh.

• 26:58Speaker 06

  You know, this is kind of like the Arthur Lee thing, the Love album. I want for a little more obscure here. This is the Luvin Brothers, Satan is Real, which, look at that, that looks like a Slayer album cover from like the 1950s or 40s.

• 27:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. I know this song. It's fucking incredible. It's like a gospel song.

• 27:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 27:14Georgia Hardstark?

  About Satan is real, which is like, they're like anti Satan, but you could listen to it.

• 27:18Speaker 06

  It's a warning. It's very much Satan is real. Watch out what you're doing.

• 27:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that. This is like, feel this, it's heavy.

• 27:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, this is when music was really weighty.

• 27:28Georgia Hardstark?

  This is incredible. I'm gonna put it on our record wall. We have like the

• 27:31Speaker 06

  Oh, nice.

• 27:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Record wall thing.

• 27:32Speaker 06

  Nice. So there you go.

• 27:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you so much.

• 27:35Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna listen to The Drunkard's Doom by myself sometime. So good.

• 27:40Speaker 06

  The Luvins are, Luvin Brothers are good for that, for sure. And they hate each other and hated each other and wanted to kill each other. So there's a

• 27:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Are they brothers for real?

• 27:45Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah. There's a, there's a disgracing episode coming on the Luvin Brothers.

• 27:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 27:49Georgia Hardstark?

  How long does it take you to, like, cause you get deep. You're like, we do homework podcasts, but it's like a week of homework. You do, same?

• 27:56Speaker 06

  Yeah, but to what Karen was saying earlier, it's a life's long kind of, you know, baseline education and understanding of this stuff. And then the week of research is, I kind of know where the bodies are buried, so to speak, and where to look. And it wasn't always like that. I mean, the first episode took like six months, almost a year to put, put together just with the first episode, you know, cause you're just figuring things out. You don't know what's what. But, um, yeah, it's a week to research and then it's a week to write. And then I don't know how long the guys take to, to produce it, because we have a production cycle, but you know, call it a week for that, maybe.

• 28:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Guys, don't wave your hands like that. They can see us right now.

• 28:41Georgia Hardstark?

  People going like, isn't that? No, are you kidding me? This would not exist.

• 28:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Leona walks out.

• 28:46Georgia Hardstark?

  The only reason, truly the only reason. Thank you, guys.

• 28:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, and I was gonna make a confession that I love that merch that you have, your bag, which is basically four of your big stories.

• 28:57Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 28:58Karen Kilgariff?

  I could not finish the big Lurch episode.

• 29:00Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 29:01Karen Kilgariff?

  It was The most horrifying story.

• 29:05Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's pretty horrifying.

• 29:06Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so bad. And I would just like, I remember where I was. It was my old house in the backyard. And then I was just like, oh, no, no, no, I can't do this. And I was like, I don't really have, you know, as we, people who listen to true crime or pay attention to it, it's like you're used to certain things. That story is so above and beyond.

• 29:24Speaker 06

  Yeah, cannibalism is above and beyond all of it. And it's tough. I've run into that a lot. I'm coming up on one, actually, that I don't know how I'm gonna tell it.

• 29:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Gigi Allen?

• 29:33Speaker 06

  No, that was.

• 29:36Speaker 06

  That I could get through. That was just feces. I could work my way through that.

• 29:39Karen Kilgariff?

  The Nazis.

• 29:41Speaker 06

  And, yeah, but the Ian Watkins lost profits thing. I've never done anything that involves kids. He was such a dirtbag. And he died in a way that, you know, I don't like seeing violence being foisted upon anybody, but it was just, it's a very dramatic story. And it's a kind of a current story. So.

• 30:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Which one is that?

• 30:01Speaker 06

  Lost, lost profits. I haven't done it yet. It's on.

• 30:04Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a horrible act of pedophilia that's like so beyond shocking that you're just kind of like, what in the living fuck happened to you?

• 30:11Speaker 06

  Exactly. Yeah, it's brutal.

• 30:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Horrible. Are there any that you won't do? Like, we have true crime stories that we just don't cover because it's just the dregs of humanity. And it's the absolute worst. And there's no way to like, spin it the way we like to do with like, victims advocacy and like, making it a story that's somehow palatable.

• 30:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 30:28Karen Kilgariff?

  You have those?

• 30:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, I do. I do. I have a couple. And for various reasons, again, the kids thing, like, everyone's like, you should do a Gary Glitter episode. I'm like, I'm good, man. I don't want my head in that. You know, but with the Ian Watkins thing, I think I know how to do it. I've tried doing the Elliott Smith story. I researched it.

• 30:47Karen Kilgariff?

  That ending.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  And there's a lot there that his friends, you can just tell there's such love for him. And it's so sad. And I'm not saying I won't do it at some point. I just don't know how to do it. And have really a reason to do it because I don't have a point of view on it yet.

• 31:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Honestly, same. I thought about doing it.

• 31:03Speaker 06

  It is literally heartbreaking. That's what it was for him, for sure.

• 31:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, I feel like he was this entity that was doing a thing from my experience. Like the first, I remember where I was when my friend put that CD in her car CD player and was like, "You have to hear this." And then we just sat there like, "Uh-oh, am I going to sob so hard I never stop crying? Like, what's happening to me?" And later, this is my big brag, and I'm sure I've told you this already, but he would play at Largo where we would do comedy shows, so there was crossover. And he came and did when me and Mary Lynn did Girls Guitar Club, and he came and was our guest on the show.

• 31:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 31:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Just because he was in town in, like, Flanagan, got him to do whatever. And I think we had 18 people in the crowd. We do, it was not a sellout show in any way. My friend David still thanks me for like, "I can't believe I was there when I got to see that."

• 31:52Georgia Hardstark?

  It's like intimate show.

• 31:53Speaker 06

  Did he play his own songs?

• 31:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep.

• 31:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 31:56Karen Kilgariff?

  He came and played.

• 31:57Georgia Hardstark?

  I was about to have a, like, I saw him once. That doesn't even come.

• 32:01Karen Kilgariff?

  But then afterwards, here's my double brag, triple brag, is that afterwards, we were standing in the back because our act that I did with my friend Mary Lynn, it was all just like, "Play the guitar even if you don't know how to." And then we'd like go into a cover where we're barely doing like the open chords and stuff.

• 32:17Speaker 06

  Right.

• 32:18Karen Kilgariff?

  And it got a little bit better as it went on, very obnoxious.

• 32:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I saw it. I was in the crowd watching you. Not that night, unfortunately. No, I know. You should have come to our Valentine's show.

• 32:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It was really great.

• 32:28Speaker 06

  You were at the Money Money Boston's or you were at some punk show.

• 32:30Karen Kilgariff?

  She's in full ska, okay?

• 32:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you, no.

• 32:34Karen Kilgariff?

  All I was gonna say is that I got to have a conversation with him after because we were, he was complimenting what we did where I was like, "Please don't do this. I'll have a nervous breakdown." And then he started talking to me about how much his voice bothered him and that he didn't like, and I watched a person who I was like, This is what artists do to themselves. Nothing's good enough. It's always bad. It's this thing where you think you're disa- and him as a person who was the least disappointing performer and musician I felt like I'd ever kind of experienced. Every time I watched him perform, like when he was on the Oscars.

• 33:08Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And it was like-

• 33:09Georgia Hardstark?

  So vulnerable.

• 33:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Everyone was so rapt and it was like, and it was perfection and that song was, it was such a time and place. And to hear him just being like, "I'm sorry, I wish my voice was better." Where I was like, "No, no, no, please don't do it." And that, it inspired me later because I love to pull myself apart and be like, "And that's why you don't do anything."

• 33:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 33:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And it's like, if that man did that to himself.

• 33:31Speaker 06

  Right.

• 33:32Karen Kilgariff?

  If only he had delusion or whatever it is to just not do that to yourself to keep going. How it could have perhaps been different. And maybe it's like, then he wouldn't have been himself.

• 33:41Speaker 06

  Right.

• 33:41Karen Kilgariff?

  But it made me later just go, "Don't shut the door on yourself because you've decided it isn't good when people love it."

• 33:48Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 33:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I love that.

• 33:49Speaker 06

  Yeah, I love that too. And that's the thing with art. It's the best art, I don't care what medium it is, it's risky. Whether it's a guy who doesn't like his voice but sings like an angel.

• 34:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 34:02Speaker 06

  Or it's a comedian who ends up talking into a microphone all the time and has to push past whatever you're thinking about with your voice. And I think we all kind of do that. And for, in some weird cosmic spiritual, call it whatever you want, way. That risk, the energy of, of taking that risk ends up in the work. And it, I feel like it ends up attracting people. You know what I mean? Like it makes it, I don't know, I don't know, it's magic. That's why you can't define it, you know?

• 34:31Karen Kilgariff?

  There's like a seventh sense of like, "Oh, that's a human being actually being a human being."

• 34:36Speaker 06

  Right, right.

• 34:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, right in front of us, like, "Go over there because that's permission." Then like, "You're doing it, now I can do it."

• 34:41Speaker 06

  Yes, exactly.

• 34:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And you can connect with it in a way that's not-

• 34:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Just like corporate.

• 34:46Speaker 06

  Yeah, for real.

• 34:47Georgia Hardstark?

  We were gonna play a game.

• 34:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you want to do musical Mad Libs?

• 34:50Speaker 06

  Sure. Yeah, I've never played musical Mad Libs.

• 34:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Well-

• 34:54Speaker 06

  I'm a little scared.

• 34:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Our producer Kate Schellenbach-

• 34:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I haven't-

• 34:57Karen Kilgariff?

  You might know her from Luscious Jackson.

• 34:59Speaker 06

  You know, it's kind of odd that you have a member of your staff who's actually banned in a disgraced episode. When I got connected with her on email, I was like, oh, fuck. Oh, shit. And I Google word searched her name in my Beastie Boys episode, just to make sure it was cool. And thank you, Kate, for being cool.

• 35:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we, that's like our, like, exactly right brag is that Kate Schellenbach works with us.

• 35:20Speaker 06

  Yeah, I've been on a thread with my family all day talking about how I was going hanging with a Beastie Boy. No offense, guys.

• 35:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I see. You know. Get the fuck out of here. Yeah, really.

• 35:32Georgia Hardstark?

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• 36:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Terrified in a haunted house? Sure. Your actual house? Absolutely not.

• 36:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Feel safe in your home with SimpliSafe.

• 36:12Karen Kilgariff?

  SimpliSafe is designed to help stop intruders before they get inside.

• 36:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I recently got an alert from my camera outside that there is like someone prowling around late at night. And of course, I got freaked out. I opened my camera and it was a big spider dangling in front of the camera.

• 36:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Which was terrifying in itself, but such a relief. And I love that I know that it works. You know what I mean? Like, it's so much better a spider than an actual person, but I'll be prepared.

• 36:38Karen Kilgariff?

  All the answers are on your phone. You don't have to worry and sit there and wring your hands.

• 36:43Georgia Hardstark?

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• 36:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Right now, save 60% off with professional monitoring when you visit simplisafe.com/fave.

• 36:52Georgia Hardstark?

  That's simplisafe.com. F A V.

• 36:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And when you order, please write in my favorite murder in the checkout survey. It lets them know that we sent you and it really helps support the show.

• 37:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Simply safe, ahead of crime in real time.

• 37:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. There are plenty of things that keep you up at night. Your sleep tracker shouldn't be one of them.

• 37:09Georgia Hardstark?

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• 37:11Karen Kilgariff?

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• 37:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Instead, you'll get personalized insights to understand your sleep and recommendations to build a routine you'll love night after night.

• 37:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Hatch Sleep Clock, the sleep tracker designed to get you to sleep. Available now on hatch.co. Goodbye. Okay, so I'm not going to tell you the song, obviously, and I think.

• 37:34Speaker 06

  What am I doing here? What's the?

• 37:35Georgia Hardstark?

  You know Mad Libs.

• 37:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Have you ever played Mad Libs? So I'm just going to ask you for random nouns.

• 37:39Speaker 06

  It's the one with the battleships, right?

• 37:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Do you drop the checkers in? I'll just be asking you for forms of the English language and then we're going to be plugging them in and reading new lyrics to an old song.

• 37:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it's lyrics.

• 37:52Speaker 06

  Am I supposed to know grammar here?

• 37:54Karen Kilgariff?

  I know. I'll help you.

• 37:55Georgia Hardstark?

  This is hard.

• 37:55Speaker 06

  If you're like adverb, I'm like, fuck, I'm fucked.

• 37:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude, I'm so glad you said it before me.

• 38:00Karen Kilgariff?

  There's no adverbs, guys.

• 38:02Speaker 06

  Verb and noun, otherwise, coach.

• 38:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Adjective.

• 38:05Speaker 06

  I've written a book, though. How did that happen?

• 38:07Karen Kilgariff?

  How did you get those words?

• 38:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Editors, editors.

• 38:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Editors. So we are starting with adjective.

• 38:13Speaker 06

  Okay, I got you.

• 38:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I think I know that one.

• 38:15Karen Kilgariff?

  That's a description word.

• 38:19Karen Kilgariff?

  So any kind of descriptor, good, bad, sideways.

• 38:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, any, oh, that's right, it says any.

• 38:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 38:25Georgia Hardstark?

  What you got?

• 38:28Speaker 06

  Stinky.

• 38:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, and as like, um, fourth grade as you can be with these words. I think it's more fun in Mad Libs, right?

• 38:37Georgia Hardstark?

  You have a fourth grader, right?

• 38:38Speaker 06

  I have a sixth grader and a second grader.

• 38:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, perfect.

• 38:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Do they like Mad Libs? Have they done this?

• 38:45Speaker 06

  Um, I don't think they have, actually.

• 38:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Come on, stop depriving your children.

• 38:49Karen Kilgariff?

  For real. What are you?

• 38:50Speaker 06

  They don't know that the internet exists yet, so.

• 38:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's great.

• 38:54Speaker 06

  We're working up to Mad Libs.

• 38:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so, uh, well, this next one is good. Natural disaster.

• 39:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 39:01Speaker 06

  Any natural disaster or historical natural disaster?

• 39:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Whatever you want.

• 39:04Speaker 06

  Hurricane.

• 39:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. No, body part.

• 39:09Speaker 06

  Penis.

• 39:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 39:11Speaker 06

  I figured I would just take it there.

• 39:12Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm blushing. I'm blushing.

• 39:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Place.

• 39:16Speaker 06

  You're asking me all these?

• 39:18Karen Kilgariff?

  She was drinking.

• 39:19Georgia Hardstark?

  I've got your back.

• 39:20Speaker 06

  Glendale.

• 39:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Sweet.

• 39:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Noun?

• 39:26Speaker 06

  You go with the noun.

• 39:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 39:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Let it flow.

• 39:30Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't think of a word. I've never thought of a word in my entire life. I've never said a word. I don't.

• 39:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Person, place, or thing?

• 39:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I know, but Elvis.

• 39:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 39:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus fucking Christ.

• 39:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Emotion?

• 39:46Speaker 06

  Melancholy.

• 39:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Deep.

• 39:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Direction.

• 39:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, U-turn?

• 39:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Sure.

• 39:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Is that a direction?

• 39:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I think it can't be absolutely. Direction.

• 40:00Speaker 06

  Another direction? Reverse.

• 40:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Weather phenomenon.

• 40:07Speaker 06

  How's that different than a natural disaster?

• 40:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, you'll see.

• 40:11Speaker 06

  A phenomenon, so singular, not phenomena.

• 40:14Karen Kilgariff?

  True.

• 40:17Speaker 06

  Mudslide.

• 40:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Perfect. Person?

• 40:21Speaker 06

  Jerry Lee.

• 40:24Karen Kilgariff?

  A crime past tense.

• 40:26Speaker 06

  Murdered.

• 40:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this a crossword puzzle?

• 40:31Karen Kilgariff?

  A living being.

• 40:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Humanoid.

• 40:38Speaker 06

  That could have been band name, too.

• 40:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 40:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, true. Object?

• 40:43Speaker 06

  Microphone.

• 40:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Body part?

• 40:46Speaker 06

  You'd do this one.

• 40:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Fingernail.

• 40:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Noun?

• 40:51Speaker 06

  Dump truck.

• 40:54Georgia Hardstark?

  This is, this is peak podcasting.

• 40:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Noun?

• 40:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Kaleidoscope.

• 41:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Concept?

• 41:03Speaker 06

  Concept?

• 41:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Black hole.

• 41:07Speaker 06

  There you go.

• 41:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice. Shape?

• 41:11Speaker 06

  Is it an anagram? Is that the weird? Triangle.

• 41:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 41:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Common shape, I should have said. A living being again.

• 41:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 41:23Speaker 06

  I'll do this living being.

• 41:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 41:28Speaker 06

  He's not living. Elvis Costello.

• 41:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Elvis Costello.

• 41:34Georgia Hardstark?

  So you say.

• 41:36Karen Kilgariff?

  A dance style.

• 41:38Speaker 06

  Interpretive.

• 41:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Is anyone sweating? I'm sweating.

• 41:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Almost done.

• 41:43Georgia Hardstark?

  This is...

• 41:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Sound effect?

• 41:46Speaker 06

  Sound effect?

• 41:48Speaker 06

  Splat.

• 41:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice. And finally, Italian last name.

• 41:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Italian last name.

• 41:56Speaker 06

  Can I give my wife's maiden name?

• 41:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 06

  Petralia.

• 41:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice. Ready?

• 42:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 42:02Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm gonna read you now the new lyrics to Bohemian Rhapsody.

• 42:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Is this the stinky life? Is this just fantasy? Caught in a hurricane, no escape from reality. Open your penis, look up to the Glendale and see. I'm just a poor Elvis, I need no melancholy. Because I'm easy come, easy go, little U-turn, little reverse. Anyway, the mud slides, doesn't really matter to Jerry Lee Lewis.

• 42:33Speaker 06

  True.

• 42:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Mama just murdered a humanoid. Put a microphone against his fingernail. Pulled my dump truck, now he's dead. Carry kaleidoscope, carry kaleidoscope. As if black hole really matters. Skipping the opera part, going to, I see a little triangle, oh, of Elvis Costello. Scaramouche, scaramouche. Will you do the interpretive dance? Splat and lightning, very, very frightening. Galileo, galileo, galileo, Petralia.

• 43:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Aww, it's like a love song for your wife.

• 43:07Speaker 06

  That is impressive. I'm actually, so did you guys?

• 43:10Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't know anything about this. I have nothing to do with it.

• 43:12Speaker 06

  Put that together yourself, or is that like?

• 43:13Karen Kilgariff?

  You know, did it?

• 43:14Speaker 06

  No, Kate?

• 43:14Karen Kilgariff?

  The Beastie Boy herself, Kate Schellbach, of course.

• 43:17Speaker 06

  Nice work, Kate.

• 43:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 43:18Speaker 06

  Yes. We barely made it out of that one alive, guys.

• 43:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly.

• 43:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Listen, when you do a 20-minute game...

• 43:25Georgia Hardstark?

  I mean, this is like 20 years of podcasting together.

• 43:27Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right.

• 43:28Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, so...

• 43:29Karen Kilgariff?

  We're doing it all right now.

• 43:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Um, da-da-da-da, what's your favorite rock memoir?

• 43:34Speaker 06

  The Rick James memoir.

• 43:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, wow.

• 43:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, shit.

• 43:37Speaker 06

  Because you're like, are you fucking kidding me, dude? You're admitting to it? Like, what? What are we talking about? He didn't, it's not an autobiography. The writer finished it after he died. But it's, it's just like, it's gold. Like, I could have done 10 episodes on Rick James.

• 43:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 43:51Speaker 06

  It's running drugs for the Colombian cartel and literally breaking out of prison.

• 43:56Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 43:57Speaker 06

  Just crazy.

• 43:58Karen Kilgariff?

  So good.

• 43:59Speaker 06

  Crazy.

• 43:59Karen Kilgariff?

  The Disgrace Land out right now is the Patti Smith's.

• 44:03Speaker 06

  Yes, which her, I mean, she's the memoir master, actually. And actually, that is a better memoir. The Just Kids is, is incredible, even though it's, it's, I know you guys have talked about it. I think you've read it.

• 44:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 44:17Speaker 06

  It's more her origin story and her love story. And then the memoir after that, M Train, which is more her story of being an artist and how she creates and goes through the process. And in, in M Train, actually, this fascinating thing that I never knew about Patti Smith, which is amazing, she's obsessed with like cheesy crime fiction.

• 44:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, really?

• 44:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Pulp Fiction?

• 44:45Speaker 06

  Just like, no, like Law and Order.

• 44:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 44:47Speaker 06

  The shit we're into, like CSI, fucking CSI. But good stuff, like The Killing, you know? And when The Killing was canceled, she wrote to the producers and was like, please don't cancel the, whatever. And they're, they're like, well, we can't do anything about it, but why don't you come on an episode? So she went on an episode. She was on Law and Order.

• 45:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God.

• 45:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Really?

• 45:08Speaker 06

  Yeah, she's like, you know, a National Book Award winner and literally, we were joking about honorary degrees, like all kinds of that. She accepted Dylan's Nobel Peace Prize for them. You know, like the high priestess of art. But she's like binging shit crime fiction like, like we all do.

• 45:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Cause she knows what's good.

• 45:26Speaker 06

  She knows what's good. And the thing that, as I'm researching her and putting the story together for Disgrace Land, I'm like, she survives, you know, she lives at the Chelsea, she lives through the whole punk rock thing, she lives through the eighties and nineties, like her, the two great loves of her life die. She survives all that and has this incredible sort of like late life. Reaping the fruits of her artistic labor ways that artists seldom get to do. And I'm looking back and I'm going, oh, my gosh, she survived all this crime and violence and drug use and everything that goes along with being a rock star and being an artist

• 46:05Speaker 06

  because she was obsessed with artists who were criminals and her mother was obsessed with the Lindbergh kidnapping.

• 46:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow.

• 46:14Speaker 06

  And would talk to her about it. She lives through the Son of Sam. She lives through, you know, Helter Skelter was a huge thing, even for rock people on the East Coast.

• 46:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Right.

• 46:23Speaker 06

  Maplethorpe was obsessed with it. And if she were alive now, or if she were like our age now, I know she's alive now, she would be like a murderino. She would be my favorite. She probably isn't my favorite murderer.

• 46:36Karen Kilgariff?

  She probably listens to Grey's Anatomy, I think.

• 46:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Could you imagine?

• 46:39Speaker 06

  Because there's the whole thing of like, being aware, right? And I mean, I'm looking at your book behind you, Stay Sexy, Don't Get Murdered, like that whole thing. Like, I know it's a catchphrase, but it's like, it's true, there's truth in it.

• 46:50Karen Kilgariff?

  I think so.

• 46:51Speaker 06

  Be aware. You know, so I think her sort of fascination with crime, crime literature, what's, how do you pronounce the guy's name? The, the, the French poet, Jean Genet, I can't say it the correct.

• 47:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Jean Genet?

• 47:03Speaker 06

  Jean Genet, yeah, thank you. Matt Boden, who is our production guy, is, is French. He's gonna kill me for puttering that. But, but he was, he, you know, he was a criminal and she was friends with Burrows. Burrows killed his wife and got away with it.

• 47:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 47:19Speaker 06

  You know, and, and I think she just kind of, she had all that stuff, that true crime kind of steeped in her. And I feel like the, the knowledge of that somehow, cosmically, spiritually, whatever, it, it helped her avoid being a casualty. That's sort of my take on it anyways. And that's, I didn't mean to just give you a whole preview of the episode.

• 47:37Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I love that.

• 47:38Speaker 06

  But I'm very, I'm very excited about it right now.

• 47:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Kind of a perfect teaser, though, because it is like, it's like, do you like music? Do you like true crime? Do you like both? This is all.

• 47:46Speaker 06

  Do you like Patti Smith?

• 47:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. Patti Smith, do you like New York in the seventies when it was real dirty and difficult?

• 47:52Speaker 06

  Yeah, she was writing Because the Night, that her biggest song during The Son of Sam.

• 47:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 47:59Speaker 06

  Just what a time, man. What a time.

• 48:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, Jake, it is truly such an honor to have a podcast as beautifully made and thoughtfully made and made by a talent that isn't just like successful, but also like it does feel like we know you and we've known you for a long time.

• 48:18Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:19Karen Kilgariff?

  We're fans and now we get to like do it with you. And I think it's the dream combination and we're so, so genuinely thrilled that this is starting.

• 48:28Georgia Hardstark?

  You feel like one of us.

• 48:29Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:30Georgia Hardstark?

  So, welcome to the shit show.

• 48:31Speaker 06

  I could not be happier to be part of the shit show. You guys are the gold standard in podcasting and you have been from the beginning and I've been a fan literally from the beginning. So what you've built is just unbelievable, guys. Congratulations.

• 48:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 48:46Speaker 06

  And your staff is amazing. The people who work here are great. Everybody I've worked with has been a delight to work with. They've all been awesome and that's a reflection on you guys.

• 48:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 48:55Speaker 06

  It's really cool.

• 48:56Karen Kilgariff?

  We've got an incredible group over here and everyone just like, what's cool is everyone's stoked and it really feels like there's a sincere love of what we're all doing and it's, it's a great team. It's a great team to be on. It's really fun.

• 49:09Speaker 06

  Happy to be here.

• 49:10Karen Kilgariff?

  So glad you're here.

• 49:11Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 49:12Georgia Hardstark?

  So, okay, Disgrace Land is now part of the Exactly Right Network and iHeart Podcast. New episodes every Tuesday, bonus episodes Thursday and rewinds on Sunday. And new episodes of Hollywood Land come out every Monday with bonus episodes Wednesday and Friday. Write that down.

• 49:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a lot of content.

• 49:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Go listen, subscribe and give it a five star review wherever you get your podcasts. That's pretty helpful.

• 49:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, leave some reviews. I often, I take calls on our bonus episode and I also will read a review and if I read the review, I'll send that person a little merch.

• 49:42Karen Kilgariff?

  I love, I think we should steal that.

• 49:45Speaker 06

  So you can leave a nice review and I'll send you guys some merch.

• 49:48Karen Kilgariff?

  You can't steal it, but you can participate in it.

• 49:52Speaker 06

  Yeah. Who do you think you are for fuck's sake?

• 49:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Can we at least get a 20% discount?

• 49:57Speaker 06

  No.

• 49:58Karen Kilgariff?

  What's your promo code for God's sake?

• 50:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Disco.

• 50:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Disco.

• 50:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Disco.

• 50:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Yay.

• 50:04Georgia Hardstark?

  That's it.

• 50:05Karen Kilgariff?

  I think we did it.

• 50:06Speaker 06

  Thanks, guys.

• 50:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Thanks for being here.

• 50:08Speaker 06

  Thank you. Right on.

• 50:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay sexy.

• 50:11Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 50:12Speaker 06

  What do I do?

• 50:13Georgia Hardstark?

  You're saying goodbye.

• 50:14Speaker 06

  I'm saying goodbye.

• 50:15Georgia Hardstark?

  In your way that you...

• 50:16Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, do it again. Can I do it again?

• 50:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Stay sexy. And don't get murdered.

• 50:20Speaker 06

  Rock-a-roller.

• 50:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 50:22Speaker 06

  I think we did that last time and I froze up as well.

• 50:23Georgia Hardstark?

  It's weird to just point at someone and expect them to know what they're gonna say.

• 50:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Now?

• 50:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 50:29Karen Kilgariff?

  No, that's true.

• 50:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Body of water.

• 50:31Karen Kilgariff?

  That's true.

• 50:32Speaker 05

  Do you want a cookie?

• 50:35Speaker 06

  What is up murderinos, fans of the Exactly Right Network and elite podcast listeners everywhere. This is Jake Brennan, host of the DisgraceLand podcast, your new favorite music and true crime podcast. A show where every week I dive into the story of one musical artist and the true crime or crimes that have impacted them. And I'm thrilled to announce that DisgraceLand has found a new home at the Exactly Right Network in partnership with iHeart Podcasts. In DisgraceLand, we have episodes on over 200 musicians. Sometimes these artists are the victims, sometimes they're criminals. And some of these stories are the kind they don't want told, the kind that are so unbelievable that you're gonna

• 51:16Speaker 06

  end up telling them to someone else. The story about blondies, Debbie Harry escaping Ted Bundy, about rock and roll pioneer Jerry Lee Lewis, aka The Killer, allegedly getting away with killing his wife, how Patti Smith isn't just the godmother of punk, but she's also the OG true crime girl. And of course, stories about the Norwegian black metal church burnings, Big Lurch, the hip hop artist who ate his roommate, Amy Winehouse, The Stones, Lana Del Rey, Bowie, Kurt and Courtney, Sid and Nancy, and too many wild stories to mention. This is the podcast for the music and true crime obsessed. New, fully scripted episodes with award-winning sound design are released every Tuesday. Bonus episodes,

• 52:00Speaker 06

  where I respond to your calls, texts, and DMs are released on Thursday, with rewind episodes dropping every Sunday. I hope you guys jump into your podcast player right now and search DisgraceLand and give it a follow. I promise you will not be disappointed. All right. Stay sexy and don't get murdered by a rock star. Rock-a-rola.

• 52:31Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right Production.

• 52:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producer is Molly Smith and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

• 52:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto.

• 52:39Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Leona Scolacci.

• 52:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Mary McGlashan and Ali Elkin.

• 52:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 52:47Karen Kilgariff?

  And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 52:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 52:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

• 52:56Georgia Hardstark?

  And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the "remind me" buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.

• 53:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 53:06Speaker 01

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• 54:05Speaker 05

  Lisa, tell them about our new show. We have a new podcast. It's called Don't Lie to Me. I'm Lexi Iwanu. We're two best friends, 22 years apart, but so close at heart. And I'm Lisi DiGiulio, the old one, which means we have wildly different references, occasionally different opinions, and at this point in my 50s, I've lived it all. Now in my 30s, being the founder of New Shoes, good taste is my business. Listen on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.