Ryan Leaf 1st Round NFL Pick on Fall From Top, Addiction, Prison Time & Life Now

FOLLOW THE PIVOT PODCAST: MERCH | https://pivotpodcast.com YOUTUBE | https://www.youtube.com/thepivotpodcast INSTAGRAM | https://instagram.com/thepivot TWITTER | https://twitter.com/thepivot TIKTOK | https://tiktok.com/@thepivot FACEBOOK | https://www.facebook.com/thepivotpodcast FOLLOW HAPPY DAD: https://www.instagram.com/happydad FIND HAPPY DAD: https://www.happydad.com/find The former 2nd overall pick, only behind Peyton Manning in the 1998 NFL draft, Ryan Leaf shares his emotional journey and his fall from the top to finding light again after very dark times. This episode of The Pivot is a story of redemption, addiction, and a conversation about restoring faith with the former first round NFL pick, Ryan Leaf, as he sits with Fred, Channing and Ryan to open up about how the star quarterback found himself in handcuffs a few short years after being at the top of the sports world. After losing his NFL career and football, the one thing he felt defined him, Ryan tried to lean into fame and eventually turned to pills to disguise the pain. His addiction over time led to desperation and burglarizing homes trying find prescription medications and anything that he could find to feed his fix until his actions left him behind bars in prison. Considered one of the best collegiate quarterbacks during his time at Washington State, Leaf admits now he wasn't mentally prepared to be under the NFL microscope from growing up in a small town in Montana to becoming a Heisman finalist to instant stardom and wealth of the NFL. Playing for five years in the league, Ryan admits that his career was over after his third game, despite winning 2 of the 3 because of how he handled them. Blaming everyone else for his short comings and behaviors, his outbursts and arrogance cost him his career, his money and he ended up quitting thinking he was bigger than the sport itself. This choice led him further down a path of poor decisions and pills to numb the absence of the thing he loved most, football. Ryan reflects back on his depression saying he was consumed by the validation of others and tried to cover up the shame of being considered the NFL’s biggest draft bust. Looking back, Leaf explains to guys that he’s grateful for his time in prison because it allowed him to humble himself and learn to take accountability for his actions. Although he believes that rehabilitation is a better solution for nonviolent drug offenders, Leaf shares that his fellow inmates taught him some hard lessons and made him realize the blame and also how to rebuild that life wasn’t over for him. If you or someone you know has a gambling problem, crisis counseling and referral services can be accessed by calling 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY) 1-800-GAMBLER (1-800-426-2537) (IL/IN/LA/MI/NJ/PA/TN/WV/WY), 1-800-NEXT STEP (AZ), 1-800-522-4700 (CO/KS/NH), 888-789-7777/visit http://ccpg.org (CT), 1-800-BETS OFF (IA), visit OPGR.org (OR), or 1-888-532-3500 (VA). 21+ (18+ NH/WY). Physically present in AZ/CO/CT/IL/IN/IA/KS/LA(select parishes)/MI/NJ/NY/PA/TN/VA/WV/WY only. Void in ONT. Eligibility restrictions apply. Valid 1 per new customer. Min. $5 deposit. Min. $5 pre-game moneyline bet. Bet must win. $150 issued as six (6) $25 free bets. See terms at sportsbook.draftkings.com/footballterms. Ends 12/30/22 at 11:59PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior-like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 0:30Channing Crowder?

  Buddy, y'all motherfuckers don't know how to practice.

• 0:31Speaker 02

  Buddy, buddy.

• 0:32Channing Crowder?

  Buddy, buddy. Y'all don't know how to practice.

• 0:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:34Channing Crowder?

  I kicked his helmet and went inside, went home.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  You called me baby boy. That was my nickname. Baby boy. Yep, yep.

• 0:41Channing Crowder?

  That was the last time I cried, cried for real. Was when I found out Junior passed.

• 0:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:46Channing Crowder?

  And I called his phone, and when that bitch hit voicemail, I cried for about 30 minutes.

• 0:51Speaker 02

  I've done that, I've done that with a few guys that have passed, and it's...

• 0:56Channing Crowder?

  Because in my mind, I was like, when I heard on news, I was like, no. No, Junior ain't dead.

• 1:00Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, I knew something when he crashed his car off the bluff. I knew he... People glossed it over and said it was an accident. I knew the guy was trying to take his life. I mean, that was... Just because I'd been around it, I'd seen it.

• 1:15Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 1:16Speaker 02

  You know, so... It didn't surprise me when we got that call.

• 1:20Channing Crowder?

  Yep. And that was the wild shit, man, because I used to shit. Man, Junior used to hang. I went to San Diego with him, went to his restaurant, like, you know what I'm saying, I used to, he had his kids, all his kids, he had his ladies.

• 1:30Speaker 02

  Say I was... He used to have a drink. They called it the Sweet 16. Uh, when I got drafted there, he had that.

• 1:38Channing Crowder?

  It was a mother...

• 1:40Speaker 02

  I don't know, I didn't really drink much of it. I think it was kind of a... I don't know, he made kind of a girly drink, probably. That's the way he made it ass, yeah. He loved to fuck with me.

• 2:12Ryan Clark?

  Welcome to The Pivot. Obviously, Freddie T, Channing, y'all all know, I'm RC. We have a special guest today, Ryan Leaf. And I think for everybody paying attention, we want to get into the stuff that you don't know. Not to make fun of, but truly about someone's journey who's turned their life around in an amazing way, and that's what The Pivot is about. So for everyone who subscribes, we thank you for your support. We want to thank Happy Dad and DraftKings for sponsoring us. And like we always say, man, anybody can podcast, but everybody can't pivot. And I want to, I want to jump into it, Ryan, because I think, what?

• 2:52Fred Taylor?

  Why you gotta say it this time? That's a dope hoodie.

• 2:56Ryan Clark?

  Oh, appreciate it. I forgot, man, my boy Taste Maker sent me this.

• 3:01Fred Taylor?

  And I don't even have one.

• 3:03Ryan Clark?

  Well, one, this is the Freddie T bear. Like, this is how you stand in every picture we take with everybody.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. I got, I got pictures from us in the...

• 3:12Ryan Clark?

  Are they just like this?

• 3:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, he's just sitting there.

• 3:14Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, like, so this is, and also the owner, Gold Watch. You know what I mean?

• 3:19Fred Taylor?

  That's dope. But he talking about 98.

• 3:21Ryan Clark?

  He told me about it on the plane.

• 3:23Fred Taylor?

  Way back.

• 3:24Ryan Clark?

  What were, what were those trips like and those, those award shows? I mean, obviously, both of you guys, you know, top 10 picks. We talked about it on the plane. What was it like, man, you, Peyton, on all the tours and doing all those different things?

• 3:37Speaker 02

  I mean, I think that was always a bit of a problem that I had, is I just maybe never saw myself as like a peer. When I came there and I saw Peyton, and I saw Fred, and I saw, you know, like the year before, like, I walked around Washington State University in a Danny Warfel jersey. Like, that was, that's what I, I thought of. And when I got into the league even, like, my first preseason game was against Steve Young and the 49ers.

• 4:02Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 4:03Speaker 02

  And we whooped them. And I played great, but there I am after the game, like, Steve, getting autographs and shit, right? I just, coming from Montana, is where I come from, there's never been a first-round draft pick in the state of Montana ever. I'm the first one. So there are, there are more first-round draft picks in the Manning family than the whole state of Montana ever. So I, I didn't know what that was like. You know, I was just like, I was never supposed to be there. Never supposed to have got, gotten to that place where I was. So I think I was just, I think I was a bit starstruck, you know? I thought I belonged. I believed I was good enough. I just don't know if I uh, so when we were at those things, it was like, I had a video camera the whole time. Remember I carried around a video camera the whole time?

• 4:44Speaker 02

  Just everything, like documented everything. Um, my parents bought it for me and you know, got to go to the Heisman Trophy and then college football playoff awards down in Orlando. Uh, and in the draft, we had to do the photo, the card shoot.

• 4:57Fred Taylor?

  Card shoot, you got the rookie premiere down in Orlando. It was so much stuff and it's bigger than life, but you're catapulted, you know, from college and not being paid and not, you're important, but not as important. Now you're drafted so high and you know, instantly, you know, these responsibilities, they multiply. You know, you gotta go somewhere that you are not familiar with, you've never been, and you are expected to be the person, the man. And in his case, more so than mine, I'm a running back. That was drafted ninth. We're talking about guys that changed the faces of organizations.

• 5:36Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 5:37Fred Taylor?

  You know, the history of organizations. So I can imagine how much pressure he has to feel that he might not be ready for, you know?

• 5:45Ryan Clark?

  Speaking of, of that pressure, uh, obviously it was you and Peyton Manning and then you get into the, the draft process and you know, for a while, like many, I think it was because of your, because of your size, your strength, the, the arm strength, athleticism. It was like, okay, we've seen Peyton Manning do a certain thing for four years, but this guy, the potential, the ceiling could be so much more. When you were thinking about where you would end up, how the draft would go, did you feel that there would be a ton of pressure on you like there was once you were drafted?

• 6:24Speaker 02

  No, I, I just, I thought it would be as easy as it was in college. And not to say that it wasn't hard, like I didn't put in the work. Like I was, you know, the, in the, in the film room all night long with, with coach and you know, I'd worked, uh, you know, getting up at 6 a.m. My dad would wake me up to go throw passes or shoot hoops in the morning before school starts. I mean, I put in the work, but that final year in college where we had it figured out and I knew the offense like the back of my hand. I mean, it was easy. We, we killed, we killed people. We were killers. Led the nation in passing. I mean, it was, I thought that was the next step. This was it. All right. And I also felt like I could dictate kind of where I, where I went. It was Indianapolis or San Diego and I was like, Why do I want to fucking go to Indianapolis?

• 7:07Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 7:07Speaker 02

  Right? San Diego's got the beach and babes and money. Let's, let's do that. And I had family in Diego. So I was like, I told my agent, say, I don't, I don't, I don't necessarily want to go there. If, if people want to say it's draft one A and one B, that's cool. We're going to get the same amount of money.

• 7:24Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 7:24Speaker 02

  And we did, but I think we were like a 250 grand difference. That's it. So that was, I thought that was going to be the best thing for me. I wasn't, wasn't thinking about the fact that they had Marvin Harrison.

• 7:34Channing Crowder?

  Mm-hmm.

• 7:35Speaker 02

  They had Marshall Falk at the time. I just, I was thinking about the wrong things. And I think when you get told you're so great and you get placed on this pedestal. Like I was being told I was the best quarterback in the country. I was going to be the number one overall draft pick. I don't think you have a real understanding of what that microscope's going to look like. And the ultimate expectation that exists. I, I wasn't prepared. I was, I was a 13-year-old in a 21-year-old's body in terms of development, maturity-wise, you know?

• 8:10Channing Crowder?

  And when, when did that hit? Like you get drafted, when did that hit that you were like, oh shit?

• 8:15Speaker 02

  Not until, not until we walked into, walked out of Kansas City. Game, week three, I was 2-0 as a starter. I think Peyton had thrown like six interceptions or something, lost two games. I've won the first two, hadn't happened since John Elway, like in 1983. And I'm like, yeah, I'm running this shit. Let's go.

• 8:31Channing Crowder?

  It is easy.

• 8:33Speaker 02

  Right?

• 8:33Channing Crowder?

  Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  I don't think I was saying it was easy because it wasn't easy. But we just won two games, right? And in fact, I found out the, like the real hard way at Tennessee in our second week against Steve McNair and Eddie George. We had two possessions in the first half. The NFL, man, you, we had two possessions in the whole half. Luckily, we got a touchdown and a field goal. And we walked out of there off the, on the road with the, with the 2-0 record. And then we're heading to Kansas City. I spent the entire week in the hospital with a turf burn. They got a staph infection. I thought I was going to make everybody, you know, see how tough I was and I'm going to go, right? They shot me up with whatever they shot me up with before the game, IVs and stuff. I went out, had a great warm-up. Skies just darkened. A monsoon hit and it was the worst possible rainstorm you can imagine. Completed my first pass.

• 9:21Speaker 02

  One for one, four yards. My final stat line was one for 15 for four yards. Two interceptions, three fumbles and like seven sacks. It's the worst football game in my life. Humiliated, embarrassed. I would play for five years in the NFL and I can tell you guys right now that my career was over after three games and I had one, two of them because of how I dealt with it. I yelled at that reporter the next day because he caught something in the locker room after the game. I got hit with a cameraman in the side of the head and I just lost it. I blew up at him, you know, kind of motherf***ed him up and down and said, said some, you know, emotional shit. And the beat reporter reported about it and, you know, I was pissed. I read it on the

• 10:06Speaker 02

  way into the work the next day. I was more embarrassed. It was a projection on my part, right? I was embarrassed and I was humiliated. I'd never have played that way. Now, if I would have stepped up in front of that podium and pulled a Tim Tebow and went, something like that will never happen again. I will work my ass off, right? Accountability.

• 10:22Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 10:23Speaker 02

  I was never accountable. I just was so humiliated that I backed myself into a corner and tried to point and at other people that it was their fault, their problem. Shouldn't have played. I was in the hospital. The coaches f***ed me over. My teammates didn't have my back. You know, the media's out to get me, right? That was, that's the lack of accountability that, that I think people who are incredibly entitled have. And I had it at the time and I can, I can tell you guys right now that my, I don't remember another positive thing the rest of my career.

• 10:53Fred Taylor?

  So when we're going through, you know, different challenges in life, we try our best to, you know, solve those and find our way out. You know, we can turn different directions. We can turn to a support team, a support system to try to see if we could talk our way through that. Or we can turn through other elements, substances, those different things. What was that one thing that, you know, the one direction that you turned to try and bring yourself to be the guy you once was when you were in college?

• 11:27Speaker 02

  I really, I really leaned into the fame. Thought if I was famous and rich. That would overcome, it would make everybody think that everything was okay. I wish I could blame the fact that I wasn't a successful NFL player on some sort of substance. It just, you know, and I just started abusing painkillers till after I quit. And that may be an easy excuse then, like I was strung out, you know, that was a problem. It wasn't, I just, I didn't do the work.

• 12:00Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 12:00Speaker 02

  You know, whatever that needed to look like. And what I did is I leaned into the fame aspect of it, right?

• 12:05Fred Taylor?

  So, let me, why not? The work?

• 12:09Speaker 02

  I.

• 12:12Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser-Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Had never seen anybody, I think, growing up in the cowboy culture of Montana, in locker rooms in college in the NFL, I don't think I'd ever seen another man actually say, "I'm fucking hurting here, I need some help."

• 12:55Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  So, if I'd never seen it, how am I supposed to do it?

• 12:59Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 12:59Speaker 02

  And I also thought that meant you're weak.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  And people would look at you that way. So, I thought, "I'm gonna fight, I'm a big, physical, intimidating guy, I'm gonna fight my way out of this." And the only way I knew how to fight was to, you know, when I was backed into a corner is to swing and let it go. But what I was always really good at was going out on the football field or the baseball diamond or the basketball court after a shitty attitude and whooping everybody's ass. And everybody kind of going, "All right, we can put up with that nonsense." But at the highest possible level of the NFL. You can't do that. When your, when your central nervous system is on tilt all week long, fighting the media, your teammates, everything, and then you're gonna go up against the best defenses in the world on Sundays, that, that doesn't work. It doesn't matter how darn talented you are. It really doesn't. Randy Moss may be a little different. That might be the only guy I can look at like that. That dude, didn't matter how he behaved

• 13:48Speaker 02

  or acted, he'd go out, do whatever he wanted, because he was just that far superior than everybody else talent-wise.

• 13:54Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, but I mean, but you play quarterback.

• 13:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 13:55Ryan Clark?

  So, so that's, that, I think that's different. The, the way that that game has to work here and here is differently sometimes than if you play wide receiver or running back. And, and also too, that sort of anger that you hold in your heart throughout a week, it's unleashed differently. Like, I, I knew, like, if I was pissed off all week, y'all gonna throw one of these slants, and I'm gonna be able to take it out on him. He go, he gonna get it.

• 14:19Speaker 02

  Bust somebody in the head.

• 14:20Ryan Clark?

  Right. For you, it's different. Something caught me, though, just now when you were answering. You said, "Until I quit." Right? That's a, that's a very specific statement. People say they retire, people are cut.

• 14:35Speaker 02

  Cut, released.

• 14:36Ryan Clark?

  There, there are a lot of things that happen. And you said, "Until I quit." Why do you use "quit" when you talk about the end of your career?

• 14:44Speaker 02

  Because I quit. I called Mike Holmgren, the head coach for the Seattle Seahawks, where it's my fourth stop, and I told him, "Coach, I'm, I'm just, I'm tired of being beat up physically, mentally." And I told him I quit. I had a, I had a roster spot. I was gonna be the backup quarterback to, to Matt Hasselback in Seattle, you know? And maybe if I, you know, did the work while I was there with a great offensive mind like him, maybe I'm the starting quarterback in the Super Bowl 40 against y'all.

• 15:14Ryan Clark?

  Wow.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  And I was just so sick and tired of it, Ryan.

• 15:21Speaker 02

  And what I hadn't realized is that I was starting, I was dealing with a bunch of mental health issues and I didn't know that. I just thought I was lazy. I thought I was, couldn't understand why I couldn't get out of bed and I felt sad all the time. I just, I didn't fully understand what that was. So instead of walking into Coach's office and telling him all those things, I just told him I quit. Cause I thought I could, I thought I could disappear guys. I really did. I didn't fully understand that I was drafted alongside arguably the greatest to ever play. The, you know, innovation of the internet really happened in 98, you know, and viral videos and me yelling at the reporter is something that is a caricature of me, right?

• 16:05Ryan Clark?

  Yes.

• 16:06Speaker 02

  It's how it's tied. But I just thought I could disappear. I had what I thought was success, money, power and prestige. So what I thought was success was. Had all the money I could ever imagine, the prestige that came with it and the power that came with money. That prestige may be a little tarnished now that I was a former player and I didn't understand how fully they would, they would attack the biggest bust of draft history, you know? I didn't think I fully understood that. I knew it was out there and I knew people loved to use that identifier. I just didn't know how it would affect me. Like it, it took me to the absolute bottom because I believed it. I believed what other people had to say. Not only did I believe that people thought I was an awful football player, but

• 16:51Speaker 02

  that I was a shitty human being. That's how my mind interpreted everything, right? Football and, and life were attached at the hip. They'd always been my whole life. And it's who I was, right? Terrible football player, which isn't furthest thing from the truth. As you guys know, how hard it is, how hard it takes to get where we got and ended to be, it just tossed into a pile like worthless piece of shit.

• 17:14Ryan Clark?

  When you say though, you couldn't figure out why you couldn't get out of bed or why you were tired or why you were sad and now mentioning you believed what people said about you. What did you say, what did you say to yourself during that time? Like you said, you know, I just thought I was lazy. Like how much did you beat up on Ryan yourself to where the world didn't really even have to do it?

• 17:39Speaker 02

  I don't remember specifically doing it because I...

• 17:44Speaker 02

  I propped myself up with the money and the power and the prestige thing. So I would go to, say I would go to Vegas for a fight, you know? Be seen in public as the, you know, rich, famous person. And even though I was no longer playing football anymore, but I still had, I had this narcissistic quality to myself where everything still had to be about me. And, uh, and so I would be at one of those fights, and you guys have been to fights before in Vegas where, you know, you get the, the good seats and there's a quid pro quo. They announce your name to the audience and stuff. And I always feared that so much because I was like, I want all the things that come with being a supposed celebrity, but I don't necessarily want anybody to know. So when they're announcing guys' names, they're like, Dr. Dre, and there's Tiger,

• 18:28Speaker 02

  and the audience goes nuts. And they announce Ryan Leaf, and the whole MGM grand just boos and hisses. And it's not like that hasn't happened before. I mean, we play on the road, but we're wearing helmets. We have this armor on, it almost emboldens us. That's where that really started to creep in where I was like, oh yeah, that makes more sense that I'm a piece of shit to these people than I am anything worthwhile or purposeful. And sure enough, that night, that night it happened in Vegas, an acquaintance of mine offered me some Vicodin. Now, I've had it before. I've had it before. I've had 15 surgeries, right?

• 19:04Speaker 02

  But I'd never abused it. And I always went to these parties where there was Super Bowl champs, Hall of Famers, guys where I always felt judged and less than in a room, even though I know they didn't judge me or think I was less than, but I, I felt that they did. And so he offered me this, these meds and man, if you've taken them in your life, right? It, it's a painkiller and most of the time it's for physical pain. And I was in a lot of emotional pain and I took a couple of pills with the alcohol I was drinking that night and I walked in and out of those parties and I felt none of that judgment, none of that fear. And I'd found my answer. I think I'd just been.

• 19:44Speaker 02

  I've just been looking to be numb and not feel for as long as I could remember. Let's put it this way, I'm kind of a redneck from Montana. I wanted to play sports and compete and be liked. That's all I ever wanted to be. And, you know, I just, I never ultimately got to that place and it ruined me, man.

• 20:07Channing Crowder?

  Why did you find so much value in others' opinions of you? Like, what?

• 20:12Speaker 02

  The narcissist, right? It was all about me. So, there was this thing, this affirmation that my therapist had me start using when I got out of prison.

• 20:24Speaker 02

  It was, "What other people think of you is none of your business." And it sounds simple, like it's a simple thing to do. But if your brain isn't trained into thinking about it... So, she had me start saying it every day in the mirror. And for the first two weeks, month, I said it through gritted teeth. Because I just, I mean, we'll get a thousand compliments, especially now in my life.

• 20:44Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 20:45Speaker 02

  I mean, you're on TV, you guys do this, you'll get a thousand compliments about how great the show is and everything. But there'll be that one negative just thing. And for whatever reason, the one out of a thousand, you'll focus on that one. It's just, it's human nature. And when it's vice versa at the time, a thousand of them are just hammering the shit out of you. You don't ever even see any of the positives that are moving forward. So, I just cared so much about what other people thought of me. And even if it wasn't great, I just cared so much about what other people thought of me. And it helped drive that constant less-than-feeling. And in moments like that, when you're a public figure, right? I mean, you guys saw I walked in here, I'm six foot seven, you know, 250 pounds.

• 21:26Ryan Clark?

  You can't hide.

• 21:26Channing Crowder?

  He ain't sneaking nowhere.

• 21:30Speaker 02

  That was why I was an easy mark when I got busted, right? I can't break into houses being six foot seven, 250 pounds.

• 21:37Ryan Clark?

  Hey, they get on, hey, they get on, I think Ryan Leaf, I think Ryan Leaf just broke in. No, they're like, "How do you know? He's big as hell."

• 21:49Speaker 02

  Because he's Ryan Leaf.

• 21:50Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, like, I know it's him.

• 21:52Channing Crowder?

  Hey, Ryan.

• 21:53Fred Taylor?

  We know how you got there, Ryan. The mental part of it, the depression and not feeling, you know, worthy of much. But in 2009, man, is when you hit the rough patch, the burglaries and all of that. What made you think they had prescription drugs in that, in that specific house? Oh, you didn't give a.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Every fucking house has pills in it. Every house.

• 22:18Fred Taylor?

  I mean, but you're kind of, I mean.

• 22:21Speaker 02

  Oh, it is a toss of the coin, I tell you that much. Being in Montana, where I was at at the time, where guns are everywhere in everybody's house, how I wasn't shot is a miracle.

• 22:32Fred Taylor?

  So you, that, I guess you were that far strung out and addicted that it was like.

• 22:38Speaker 02

  There was not, the ends justified the means regardless. The psychological effect opiates have on your brain is crazy. Like, I, I looked at myself in the mirror every night and I said, you fucking junkie, you need help. I mean, I knew it, but the only way for me to not feel that shame, feel that guilt, or feel the less than of, of being this, this junkie was, was to defeat it. Like, because when I fed it, I didn't feel any of that stuff because it numbs you out. Like, you don't, you don't feel anything. And so initially, it was going to friends' homes and pretending I was there to visit them, go through their medicine cabinets and take them. And then at the end, I, you know, my amazing criminal mind thought, hey, why don't you go to open houses? Pretend you're interested in buying the house.

• 23:22Speaker 02

  You get free reign of the whole damn house.

• 23:24Fred Taylor?

  Wow.

• 23:25Speaker 02

  You know? And sure enough, man, I mean, nine times out of 10, I might find some. And it wasn't like I was collecting them for days too. I was like, I showed up and I found them. Like, my day was done. Like, the moment I woke up in the morning, do I have pills? And if I don't, how do I get them? And soon as I got them, like, there was a whole criminal mentality to it, right? Get in the car, I punch in the addresses of the open houses in the GPS, I throw on some Kid Cudi. I don't know why, Kid Cudi got me all pumped. Day and night album, man, I'm just like rolling.

• 23:54Fred Taylor?

  No, you can't make these jokes. Like, you can't be telling this story, bro.

• 23:59Speaker 02

  I'm serious. It was like, alive and nightmare and pursuit of happiness. I'm just, you know, rolling, you know, and just, you know, this mindset of like, fucking jacking these people's homes so I can get right. But yeah, there's like this, I had this, this, just like preparing for a game. Here was my day. And that's what my day was. And I fed it every single day and, like, you know, luckily, all those nights that I clamored for somebody to help me, my higher power, finally said, you just, you don't get it, dude, so I'm gonna send the sheriff's department to help you.

• 24:31Fred Taylor?

  Did getting caught save your life?

• 24:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. I couldn't do it on my own. I tried. I'd gotten sober before.

• 24:41Speaker 02

  I had a brain tumor that, you know, I had to go deal with. Brought on by from the trauma of getting hit.

• 24:50Speaker 02

  It was right on my brain stem and freaked us out a little bit and, you know, it was about a golf ball size. And I don't talk about that much because I feel like it's an excuse.

• 25:00Speaker 02

  Like I relapsed after my going through radiation. Like everybody else who goes through that gets painkillers because it's painful and that. But I'm not like everybody else. Like I'm a drug addict. So like I told you, I'm allergic. Like I break out in handcuffs. That's the way it works. After that surgery and going through radiation, the doctor prescribed me something. I didn't tell him that I had an issue before. And literally he gave them to me December 1st, 2011. And by March 30th, 2012, literally four months, I was in prison.

• 25:35Channing Crowder?

  You think football created that? Not, not created the drug habit, but created the stress or the mental ailments that made you go towards that was. If you never played football, if you weren't in gigantic, 6'7", 250, do you think you would have had these same problems?

• 25:55Speaker 02

  I don't know if I had the substance abuse problems. I got introduced to them because of the surgeries from playing football, right? Orthopedically, you know, I didn't drink in high school. I didn't. The only drug I've ever done is, is a prescription painkiller. I smoked weed in Amsterdam one time because, you know, went in Rome type of mentality, you know? Didn't like it at all.

• 26:13Speaker 02

  I liked feeling sedated. I liked feeling numb. I liked feeling, you know,

• 26:20Speaker 02

  away from everybody. Like I knew guys that would get high and they would go play hoops or they would go hang out with people. Like I wasn't going to waste my high on you. Like this was my precious. I was like fucking Gollum. Like, you know, just like taking that shit in. And I had dates with girls, beautiful girls, and I'd cancel on them because the pills were more important to me. That was just my only coping mechanism. Now, the football aspect of things, football gave me everything. It gave me everything and I blamed it for a long time.

• 26:48Speaker 02

  And that's accountability piece like.

• 26:51Speaker 02

  I'm here, whether that was looking at myself in a prison cell mirror, or I'm here right now with y'all because of what I did, no one else.

• 27:02Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 27:03Speaker 02

  And when you break it down that simple, you can't point your finger at anybody else. Because then you're wrong. You know, could the Chargers have done more? Right? Could, you know, a guy that was just paid $31 million, could you hire a PR guy to follow him around for 100 grand a year to make sure he doesn't fuck up?

• 27:20Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, you could do stuff like that. Can you not fire your head coach in Week 5? And then bring in some dude from the Pac-10 that isn't his head coach from 2 years ago, but some guy that has never won 500 worth of games at Oregon State? I mean, there's so many things you can point fingers at, and I did that for so long. But it doesn't matter what anybody else did. What was my part in it? So same thing with that. Football was not the reason why. I'm the reason why. I'm the problem. That's why every stop I had, and I was in 4 places and 4 teams gave me opportunities, and I was with Tony Dungy in Tampa Bay, which was the best possible place I could be in with him as a head coach, and I still found ways to fuck it up. I was the problem. I was just the problem, and so I needed to get right. And until I did get right, nothing was ever going to work out for me.

• 28:05Ryan Clark?

  Oh, my gosh. Ryan Leaf's story is absolutely fascinating. What's also fascinating is the DraftKings Sportsbook app. And any new customer right now, if you use the promo code PIVOT, any pregame money line wager, you bet $5, your bet hits, you get $150 in free bets, and that's not all.

• 28:23Fred Taylor?

  Hey, RC, Sportsbook isn't everywhere, but don't worry. Listen, DraftKings got you covered. DraftKings Daily Fantasy, DraftKings Rainmakers. You can still play and you can get your money wherever. I got same-game parlay in Jersey. I cashed out in Florida.

• 28:38Channing Crowder?

  I'm schooling you, Freddie, on them same-game parlays. Multiple bets on the same game. I like to bet the winner, and by how much, and get even bigger winnings.

• 28:47Ryan Clark?

  DraftKings Sportsbook. Get out your mobile devices and download the DraftKings Sportsbook apps. Daily Fantasy, same-game parlays. Whatever sport you love, the DraftKings Sportsbook is the place for you. Remember, any pregame money line wager for new customers using the promo code PIVOT of $5 if you win $150 in free bets. Now, back to Ryan Leaf.

• 29:10Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends. Like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest, or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior light beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch Enbev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 29:45Ryan Clark?

  We had Jamarcus Russell on the show as well.

• 29:48Speaker 02

  Get out of my head.

• 29:49Ryan Clark?

  You and I actually talked about it.

• 29:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:51Ryan Clark?

  And there was a, and you know, and Jamarcus is our guy.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:55Ryan Clark?

  You know, and there was a point in that interview where I was like, hey, man, like, you ever think to yourself that you could have done something differently? That at some point, it wasn't everybody else? That there were some things that you could be accountable for? I think, one, I wanted to know if he did see anything that way. And I also think sometimes that accountability and that awareness frees you from having to blame everybody else the rest of your life, and it allows you to move on. What was the moment you realized that? Was that being in jail and looking in the mirror? That you said, you know what? This is probably on you. Because ain't nobody else in there with you. It's only you and him in the mirror.

• 30:34Speaker 02

  So, uh, I had a roommate in prison, and dude just complained every single frickin' night about how, uh, how he was there because of this girl. Girl called the cops on him. And I finally just got fed up with him one night, and I was just like, dude, wh- why'd she call the cops on you then?

• 30:53Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 30:53Speaker 02

  And he just kind of seemed stunned for a minute, and he's like, "Well, I hit her." And I go, "Maybe you're [bleep] in jail because you hit her."

• 31:00Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  So we have blinders on. Like, we, we don't see what we did. We see what other people do that cause us to do whatever. But you can't control that. You can control you. That's it. And it, yeah, it took me to that place where I had to hear, I had to be in prison with a bunch of people that absolutely blamed everybody else but themselves. Uh, and I was that guy, right? I blamed the media. I blamed my hometown. I blamed my family. I blamed, uh, blamed the NFL. Uh, I blamed everybody, but, but never took any accountability on my own part. And so when that moment came, yeah, when I said, "Ryan, you are here because of what you did, no one else." That, you said the word exactly, that's freedom, right there.

• 31:41Ryan Clark?

  So you go through these things and you start to rebuild your life. Like, very few people get an opportunity to be here and here, right? And the in-between is extremely tough to find a balance, because all you know is the lowest of the lows and the highest of the highest. So when you take that first step to rebuild your life and get to this point where you can be self-aware enough to sit here and be open and honest about it, what is that?

• 32:12Speaker 02

  It's the hardest fucking thing I've ever done. I mean, I walked out of prison, December 3rd, 2014. So this isn't like it was 20 years ago, guys. I mean, we're coming up on my eight-year anniversary. And when I walked out, I had nothing. I had blown every penny I had. I didn't have a place to live. Like, you and I worked for the Disney Corporation. RC, like, and Mickey Mouse wasn't sitting there going, "Hey, Ryan, come over here, work for me." Like, no, like, no one wanted to be around me. My hometown newspaper, where I'm supposed to be the hero back home, runs a frickin' cartoon the day I get out. It says, "Lock up your medicine cabinets, Ryan's out."

• 32:56Speaker 02

  And, I mean, just, just breaks your heart, because you already feel like you're a piece of shit. And then they're reinforcing, like, "Oh, yeah, that makes sense." And I'm still that way. Like, somebody will give me a compliment and my body, my body action is like, I look down at my feet. And if somebody, you know, calls me a piece of shit or says you're a bum or a loser or a bust, like, I, I don't, I go, I'm like, "That's about right." It's still innate.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Because when you're beat over the head with it for so long, you just, you buy it. And, uh, and so when I walked out, I had none of those things. The thing I had, I had a place to lay my head down. My mom and dad, God bless them, have unconditionally loved me my entire life. They did not need a famous football-playing son. They needed a son who was respectful, had character, some integrity, who was at peace, and had a chaotic, free life. That's what they wanted, and they certainly did not get that. But they were there on that day. I walked out with nothing, climbed in the back of that car, uh, and drove off to my hometown to live in their basement. As a 38-year-old man who used to be a millionaire and a second-overall pick in the NFL draft,

• 34:09Speaker 02

  endorsed by Nike and Rolex and, you know, everything you can imagine, uh, with nothing. So how do you start? And what, what makes it so impactful is when I walk into prisons now, and I walk into places, and they just assume that my life could get better simply because I was a former famous football player, that was easy. And it wasn't. I had nothing. I walk in there and I tell them, I had, I didn't have a penny to my name. Like, my first instinct was, find some pills and just fucking end this. You know, that was my first instinct. And what I learned in prison, because of my roommate, um, he was an Afghan-Iraqi war vet, and he had, uh, had driven drunk one night when he was home, uh, on leave, and

• 34:54Speaker 02

  he killed somebody. And he had made amends. He had forgiven himself. He had, uh, he wasn't resolute with being that guy, and I watched him, like, every day, try to better himself. I thought he was just stupid. I mean, you know, I'd never been marginalized in my life. I didn't know what that was like until that judge said, "Hey, you know, you're not worth anything to the, to the world. I'm gonna give you a number and warehouse you." You know, that opened my eyes. I grew up in a very predominantly white suburban community. My only black friends were my football teammates, which probably made me so much more understanding, but still never would have had the idea of what marginalization looks like in any way, shape, or form. So this may be the closest thing.

• 35:36Speaker 02

  So there were so many lessons along the way, and my roommate, he just had enough of it. He came in front of me one day, and he said, "You have, you don't understand the value that you have." Not only for the men in here, but when you get out, Ryan, because you're gonna get out at some point. He may never. And so he suggested we go down to the prison library and help prisoners who didn't know how to read, learn how to read. And I had so many of those come to Jesus moments in my life, coaches, mentors, family, and I just told them to [__] off. I got this. But I went, maybe because the substance had been out of my brain for, this was about 26 months into my 32-month sentence. And I walked down that hallway, and I was in a red prison jumpsuit.

• 36:19Speaker 02

  And I was thinking, this is stupid, this isn't gonna help me, doesn't he know how important I am? I mean, the irony of the guy in prison in a red jumpsuit still thinking he's important is the real problem in all that comment. And so I walked into this room, and here's this man who, 50 years old, where you're in a place where you're supposed to show no vulnerability or anything like that, because it can get you hurt. And he walks up and he goes, "Ryan, you know, I can't read, can you help me?" And I, my first instinct is like, "What the [__] wrong with you?"

• 36:50Ryan Clark?

  Right.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  Like I told you earlier, I've never seen a man do that, right? Especially in a place like this. And so I started helping him. And what it turns out was, is that here are the two guys in the most, you know, awful place you can imagine, like helping each other navigate it and get over, you know, peer-to-peer. And it's not like I saw it happen in the moment, right? You never, you can't, you don't go to the gym one day, and the next day you wake up and look like The Rock, right? I mean, it's about consistency, you gotta, you gotta show up. And so I kept going back, kept going back, and before, no, a week had passed, two weeks, a month. Now I'm the TA for the substance abuse counselor while I'm in there. And I wake up one morning, and I realize I'm sleeping better, I'm talking to my family,

• 37:36Speaker 02

  I'm more personable, and I'm like...

• 37:40Speaker 02

  I'm being of service to another human being for the first time in my life. I used to think what we did on Saturdays and Sundays was me being of service. Or giving money.

• 37:48Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 37:49Speaker 02

  That's where I associate a lot of service. Hey, here, money.

• 37:51Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 37:52Speaker 02

  And this was the first time. No one saw it. Media didn't know we were doing this. No one cared. It was just between me and this other human being helping each other out. And I knew that when I got out, it was gonna have to be at the crux of my and foundation of my life. Otherwise, nothing was gonna change. I was just gonna be the same dude I'd always been.

• 38:14Channing Crowder?

  It was rehabilitation. The thought of prison is that. Like, you're just saying that.

• 38:19Speaker 02

  I will say this. I'm grateful for having spent 32 months in prison. I never thought I'd be able to say that. I don't recommend it. All right? I don't recommend it. You can go about it a different way. Take my story. Listen to the pivot. Pull that layer out. All right? You don't have to go there to deal with this stuff. Because I tell you what. Nonviolent drug offenders do not belong in prison. They belong in treatment. So they can help people and get out. Because guess what? I went to prison not knowing one drug dealer. I know 100 now.

• 38:46Channing Crowder?

  Oh, yeah.

• 38:47Speaker 02

  You know? So it's not a place for rehabilitation. There's a reason why we're the most heavily populated prison population in the world. It's another society. It is.

• 38:57Channing Crowder?

  You were scared in there?

• 38:58Speaker 02

  No.

• 39:00Channing Crowder?

  You were never, just because of your size or?

• 39:03Speaker 02

  Size? And I tell you what, man. I mean, it was, I was, I kind of fed, you know, I was famous. And then one of the wardens one time told me, you know, he was, he put me in solitary for a while because he was worried somebody was gonna try to hurt me to make a name for themselves. But no one had approached me in that way at all. In fact, the people that had approached me were like, like anybody else. They were like, I cannot believe you made it to where you made it.

• 39:30Channing Crowder?

  And you're here.

• 39:31Speaker 02

  Tell me about it. What, I mean, they just wanted stories. And I remember like one of my first days in prison, a guy came up to me and asked me to go out and play football with him. And there was a group of them and they were flag football. And they asked me to be all-time quarterback. I remember it was April 10th. April 10th, 2013. And I started playing and I'm looking at the mountains that I grew up in and I hunted and fished in. And there's razor wire there. And I just felt humiliated and just... Embarrassed and we play and I hear the walkie talkie squawking and it's like the fucking longest yard. It was like, "Leaf's out here throwing balls." Guards are down there and they're watching and shit. And I do it and then I immediately walk off and just like, "I'm never doing that again." I'm never, I went outside twice. That day, April 10th, the next year, twice in the 32 months I was in prison, I went outside.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  I was so, I was about 325 pounds, two guys with a Unabomber beard and I was just angry all the time. And the guy that day walks up to me who asked me to go out and play and he's like, "Ryan, you made my day, man. It was my birthday and now I can, you know, I got to play catch with an NFL quarterback." And I still couldn't hear it in that moment, man. I couldn't hear that I had done something for somebody else. I was still thinking about myself going, "What an embarrassment. What a fucking embarrassment being out there in prison, playing football, looking like a scrub." That's how my brain interpreted it. I didn't hear this dude that just, it made his day. And I still, still to this day, go through that, but now I hear it and I understand

• 40:59Speaker 02

  what it means to be of service and when that has nothing to do with you. So, when I walked out of prison, that was the thing in my head. Like, it can no longer be about you, ever, again.

• 41:09Ryan Clark?

  You are now, like you say, you work for the mouse.

• 41:13Speaker 02

  For the mouse.

• 41:14Ryan Clark?

  This all came about, you know, I was down to watch Jordan play. They were playing Oklahoma State. He's doing Oklahoma game and I go to work out. I was like, "Who is this big motherfucker on this treadmill?" You know what I'm saying? And you know how like, you look at a guy and you're like, "That's Ryan Leaf." But you think it to yourself, you're like, "Like, all white people don't look alike. Like, he could just be like a big white dude." You know what I mean? Like, I don't want to embarrass myself or insult this man, be like, "Hey, man, you Ryan Leaf?" You know what I mean? And so then we end up being on the same plane, but... He spoke about rehabilitation. There has been a rehabilitation of your life and you're the, you're family man.

• 41:55Ryan Clark?

  And you are now entrusted and have the opportunity to take care of other people every single day. When you think about where you were, just having to learn to serve. And now truly, whether it's speaking, you know, with, with, with your family or whatever it is, truly being of service every day. Could you have ever imagined when you were going to open houses just to get a fix? So you could go home, that you'd be at this point of your life?

• 42:27Speaker 02

  If you had told me this would be my life in 2022, I would have told you you're nuts. It's just, there's no way that can happen. There was no hope.

• 42:36Speaker 02

  There was no hope. I, uh, I wanted to be dead. That's what I wanted. Like the ultimate numbing and the reason why you use opiates is that you just, you never feel anything again. So that's why nothing ever dissuades you from doing something crazy like, you know, walking into somebody's house and getting shot or, or having, being arrested and because that's, that's, you're looking for that. And so, yeah, I never, no way. I didn't want to have a kid because I didn't want to saddle my kid with my last name. And then I had to think about that and go, what a selfish thing. My dad's, it's my dad's last name. It's my grandpa dad's last name. They both served. Uh, my dad, two tours in Vietnam, came home, got spit on. Uh, my grandpa in, in Korea. I mean, that name means something.

• 43:21Ryan Clark?

  Yeah.

• 43:22Speaker 02

  And I was so selfish that I thought it was, that it would embarrass, I was worried that he would get teased or, or made fun of and stuff like that. And I mean, that was all about me. That was all about me. So when, you know, when my, when my wife told me she was pregnant, I mean, I, it's the best thing I've ever done, man.

• 43:40Ryan Clark?

  Really?

• 43:41Speaker 02

  Is that moment when you hold your kid in the hospital for the first time? And she was having some complications, so I had to do the skin on skin?

• 43:51Speaker 02

  And there's a selflessness that washes over you because you just, you know that everything you do moving forward is going to be about them. Like every dollar I earn, you know, I don't care if I make any money for myself ever again. Like everything is going to go to him and her and our family and hopefully make it. And what's also great is both of them, they'll never have to see that version of me. I mean, they still get, you know, old Ryan because you just don't get fixed overnight, right? You know, 38 years of my life, I was this guy. Maybe when I'm 76, I'll have it figured out, right? So it's constant evolution and being a dad.

• 44:36Speaker 02

  I introduced him to, we watched The Goonies last night.

• 44:39Ryan Clark?

  Hey, you guys.

• 44:42Ryan Clark?

  Chuck, old Chuck.

• 44:44Speaker 02

  It was to watch the facial expressions because it's my childhood. And then watching it be relived through his eyes, you know? And that's the coolest thing about being a dad. You just, the innocence, like whatever innocence was robbed of me because of my actions, I feel like I'm getting some of that innocence back where I'm not cynical to the world.

• 45:08Speaker 02

  And I can walk into any situation and simply choose to be pleasant and happy about it.

• 45:13Ryan Clark?

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• 45:39Channing Crowder?

  Everything in life, you're looking for help. You're looking for help with your schoolwork, you're looking for help with your job, you're looking for help with hiring, you gotta go to ZipRecruiter. They're the best. If you want help, go find the best help. And that's what people do when they're successful in business. It's ZipRecruiter if you're trying to hire.

• 45:55Fred Taylor?

  Hey, listen, get in the game. Motivate your audience. From accountants to zoologists, ZipRecruiter has it for you. Let them use their powerful technology to help you find the right candidate. That's right. They have an amazing technology that allows you to filter, review, and rate your candidates. Get the person that's right for your job.

• 46:16Ryan Clark?

  When you are ready to build your winning team, let ZipRecruiter help you build the perfect roster. You can try it free today at ziprecruiter.com/draftkings. That's ziprecruiter.com/dr a f t k i n g s. ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire.

• 46:33Channing Crowder?

  Are you really happy? Are you at peace now?

• 46:35Speaker 02

  I don't like the word happy. Because life is still life. Life is unfair. It's how you deal with it that matters. Okay, so I still mess up all the time. It's still a flawed human being.

• 46:49Speaker 02

  But I am at peace. Like, there's no chaos in my life. Except for the ones I... Except for the chaos I make myself. And that's because, you know, I work hard now. Like, there's... What's cool about these jobs, and I think a big reason, I get a lot of work, you know? And I do not take it for granted because there are plenty of people that probably don't look like me that don't ever get an opportunity like I'm getting. And so, I'm not... I don't take it for granted. So, I work my ass off. And I have the perspective around like, this is not, you know, expected. This is... You have to do the work. And I think it's made me a better person to work with.

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Like, we'll never walk out of a situation where somebody goes, "Ah, man, I hate..." You know, I know when people left me after meeting me before in the past, were like, "That's... I [bleep] that guy." You know? And people now are like, "I want to work with that guy. I want to spend time with that guy." And that's the biggest compliment you can ever get. And so, yeah, there's a peace to it. Because there's an acceptance. Like, this is me, and it's okay. I was never that way. Like, this is me with conditions.

• 48:01Speaker 02

  Now it's, this is me, this is bear, this is flawed human being fucks up. You know, is, you know, cries and, and loves life. Because I tried to take it, right, you know, that's, and that's, that's the most selfish act there is.

• 48:18Fred Taylor?

  Can you watch the game of football without feeling depressed?

• 48:22Speaker 02

  God, yeah. I mean, for a while, you know, during that time, it was. It's the greatest sport in the world, man. I get to call those games now.

• 48:31Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 48:32Speaker 02

  Just called the Saints and Cardinals game the other night, Thursday Night Football. And, man, I, it's just such a beautiful game.

• 48:39Fred Taylor?

  Yeah.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  And like I said, it gave me everything. And I don't care if people would consider me a bust, because I don't believe it, because I know what it took to get there. And, hell, I named it my podcast, so.

• 48:57Fred Taylor?

  You better be careful, because Jamarcus said, if you don't put the biggest in front of that mother.

• 49:02Speaker 02

  That's what he said. I appreciated his, his full-throatedness to, to what it was gonna be. And so, if he wants it, you know. You give that one to him? Well, I'm still competitive, so like, I'm cool with it. I mean, if you consider the biggest bust of all time, you know how damn good you had to be? Yeah. That's exactly, that's exactly what he said.

• 49:25Channing Crowder?

  He would have never been the biggest bust, because we weren't good enough in college to be considered the biggest bust.

• 49:30Speaker 02

  If I would have been drafted in the second or third round, you know, who know, just being, getting to the NFL from where I was from, it would have been cool, but, you know, if that would have happened, you know, I might have been flown, flown under the radar, learned, you know? What if I'm Brian Greasy in, in that first year, and I sit behind John Elway for a couple of years?

• 49:49Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 49:50Speaker 02

  What does that look like? Another big thing in San Diego is that there was a chance for them to bring Warren Moon in, because he played for Kevin Gilbride in Houston as my mentor. And they didn't do that. They kept me and some, some guy, a journeyman, that had never really played as the two quarterbacks on the roster. Then a year or two, they brought in Jim Harbaugh, and I finally got it. I had a guy that like, he competed his ass off, he's one of the most competitive guys you have, but he taught me how to be a professional football player. But by that time, my career was over, man, I was busted. I was this head case, I was this problem. And it just, it never, never self-corrected, because I never self-corrected.

• 50:27Channing Crowder?

  Ryan, what happened to the money, man? You got 30 up front. I ain't even touched half of 30, and I still got money.

• 50:33Speaker 02

  Well, it was, you know, back in the day, 25 years ago,

• 50:38Speaker 02

  the headline says 31 million dollars, right? Signing bonus was 11, which is still...

• 50:43Channing Crowder?

  That's a lot of damn money.

• 50:44Speaker 02

  Still a lot of damn money. Three years in the contract with lower salaries, right? So I probably made 15 million dollars out of all that. Seven and a half go to taxes.

• 50:55Speaker 02

  3.8 of it went to the ex-wife. So I have 3.8 million dollars, and I lived like I was still making 5 million dollars a year. Had the big house, flew on private planes. I just figured that the money would never run out. Didn't fully understand what that looked like. And before you know it, it's gone. When you were making zero dollars a year, and you live like you're still making 5 million dollars a year, it goes away. And so it was gone. I had my insurance policy from the NFL when I got out of prison, which was like around, I can't remember what it was. Also, luckily, the NFL Player Care Foundation existed because Tyrone Allen and the NFLPA told me, "We're not giving you any money.

• 51:40Speaker 02

  We're not throwing good money after bad," is what they told me.

• 51:45Speaker 02

  But luckily, the NFL Care, Player Care Foundation stepped up, and they helped me pay for my treatment when I went and got treatment. Otherwise, I don't know. I mean, I don't know. I mean, there have been so many people that have carried me over the last eight years, guys. So many people. And I mean, I think it's important for me to understand, like, I didn't do this on my own at all. Just like back in the day, I didn't make it there on my own, and I thought I did. I like, I did it in spite of everybody telling me I couldn't do it, but I didn't realize all the people carrying me. Like, I didn't know my mom and dad were living paycheck to paycheck.

• 52:17Channing Crowder?

  Right.

• 52:18Speaker 02

  And still making sure. I never knew that. Did everything I needed to do to get where I needed to get. The sacrifices they made. My brothers, both my brothers, right? They had to live in that house when I was in the NFL and making an embarrassment of the whole family. My brother told something to my aunt one time. He said, "No one laughs in our house anymore." Imagine being a big brother and your little brother, that's what's being said, like, "No one laughs in your house, and I'm responsible for that."

• 52:42Channing Crowder?

  I think the last question, man, and we'll wrap it after this, is...

• 52:47Ryan Clark?

  You know, and I don't, you, you, you gave me an example of what you looked like in prison. You know, so I, so I can, and obviously I Googled before we started this and I've, I've seen some of the pictures. I can imagine looking in the mirror, feeling what you're feeling and the things you had to be telling yourself at that point. When Ryan Leaf wakes up now and he looks in the mirror, how does he feel about the guy staring back at him and what is he telling him?

• 53:19Speaker 02

  He loves him. He loves him and uh.

• 53:24Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by Michelob Ultra. Good times mean competitions between you and your friends, like seeing who can throw some pigskin the farthest or rush the field the fastest. Winner gets an ultra. Because it's not just a superior like beer, it's also giving fans superior access to their favorite sporting events. Superior is worth playing for. Visit michelobultra.com/superioraccess to enter. Enjoy responsibly. Copyright 2026 Anheuser Busch InBev Michelob Ultra Beer, St. Louis, Missouri.

• 53:54Speaker 02

  He says it's gonna, and what I say to myself now is it's gonna be okay, right? You just do what you did yesterday. I don't know what five years are gonna look like from now. I don't know, you know, the way I think, my best thinking takes me to a prison cell. So maybe five years from now I'm back in prison. I don't know. I know if I do what I did today, tomorrow, most likely I'll lay my head down at peace and wake up and do the same thing again. I don't, I don't look too far out, man. I mean, my schedule on my calendar is this. Like it's pray, it's meditate, it's take the training, it's do the work. You know, today it was an opportunity to do this, you know, head home, spend some time with the family, got the game tonight, prepare for, uh, for work tomorrow on that, fly to Norman, call the game in Oklahoma this weekend. I mean, I got the life of my dreams. I thought

• 54:39Speaker 02

  the life of my dreams was playing professional football, right? Not even close, man. Like, I get the life of Ryan dreams now. You go in any stadium now as a former player, man, and call the game, you never walk out with a no, ever.

• 54:52Channing Crowder?

  I tell you this, Ryan. I tell you, I tell you this, Ryan. If you gonna do some crazy shit, call me. I'll come wrestle your big ass. So, yeah, you use me as a resource. If you planning on doing something crazy.

• 55:03Speaker 02

  That's important, and I appreciate that because guess what? Our brothers are dying. Yes, they are. And I don't know why I had the reaction I had when Vincent Jackson died. I didn't play with him even. But I was like in an emotional place. It was during the pandemic. And maybe because I knew what it felt like to be dying in a hotel room alone. Because I've been there before. And I knew the NFL, and I knew the NFLPA knew about it. And like, I mean, have something together. Like, if somebody would have called me, I'd have got on that plane, knocked on his damn door, and D would have had to have listened to me because I've been through exactly where he's been at. And so, um, there's some empathy, empathy with that.

• 55:46Speaker 02

  And that was, that's incredibly meaningful. I mean, it was, you know, it's said in jest, but meaningful. And I hear, I heard you. So, yeah, if I feel like I'm ever gonna get into some shit, or like I don't, don't feel right about something, that's where I need my peers. Where guys that, that know what it's like to go through what we went through, regardless of whether you played five years or you played 18 years. And so, I think for the longest time, I didn't feel like I belonged in that. Like, I thought, you guys all thought I was a piece of shit. You guys all thought I was a bust. All those things, like, so I would veer away from interacting with action because I felt judged. And since I've gotten back into it over the last seven years, where I'm working in the field that I work in,

• 56:30Speaker 02

  and I interact with you guys now more, and hadn't seen Fred for almost 25 years. I've been under the radar.

• 56:36Channing Crowder?

  But guys want to help.

• 56:37Speaker 02

  Guys want to help.

• 56:38Channing Crowder?

  Guys really do.

• 56:39Speaker 02

  And I, and I want to help. That's, that's the bigger thing in all this, like, what's so hurtful sometimes is that all of seeing somebody a few days before or at an event or something like that, and they know my story, but it's still the stigma that still exists that they're so fearful of letting anybody know that they're struggling. Like, the fear of someone knowing, knowing that you are hurting is worse than, than getting the help that you need. And that's the bigger problem in all this, so. I had breakfast like two weeks before the young quarterback at Washington State, my alma mater, Tyler Holinsky, took his own life. We're having breakfast together. He knew my story. He knew what I'm going through, but he still didn't feel like he could tell me like, hey, man, I don't know what the fuck to do here. Help me.

• 57:24Speaker 02

  And so we gotta change that.

• 57:27Fred Taylor?

  Right.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  And I think, you know, you guys have such a platform and a reach. And I think, you know, watching some of your stuff and hearing people talk about the way they talk about it, I think it's, it's de-stigmatizing. And that's, that's the biggest importance because we may never see the change. I mean, you guys know it better than anybody, man. From the 60s to now, of course, there's been change. But when the mental health side of things, maybe I'll never see the actual change. But if we don't start working on it, like, it will never come. So, yeah, Michael Phelps, you got Kevin Love, you got DeMar DeRozan, man, stepping up, talking about how they go through shit, like everybody does. That removes that stigma and allows somebody like Calvin Ridley, when he's really going through something, to say, I need to take a step back. You know?

• 58:13Speaker 02

  And that's, you applaud that. It's hard to look at somebody when you can't identify it, when it's not a broken ankle, right? So, that's hard. You gotta, there's gotta be some faith from people that they're gonna understand, and that takes time, and that's what we're doing.

• 58:28Fred Taylor?

  I want to say on behalf of The Pivot and everybody out there and all of the fans that love stories of redemption, I want to say salute to you for sticking in there, you know? And now having the opportunity to go out and share your message and your journey and your story with anyone else, especially these young guys that need that, they need the transparency, you know, they need to see the vulnerability.

• 58:57Speaker 02

  And that it's okay.

• 58:59Fred Taylor?

  That's 1,000% okay. So, on behalf of all of that, man, big salute to you, bro, for not giving up, for making that ultimate pivot and changing the trajectory, you know, of your life for your family, your friends, your parents, you know, your former teammates, people that still struggle, that are afraid to speak. Keep going, bro. I'm glad to see that you're well, obviously, and appreciate you for hopping on with us.

• 59:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 59:27Fred Taylor?

  Big salute.

• 59:28Ryan Clark?

  I think you should know this too, man, and I'm sure people that have been around the game, that have gotten to talk to you now, say it. We actually all do remember how good you were. And I don't know.

• 59:42Channing Crowder?

  Yes.

• 59:43Ryan Clark?

  Like, I don't know if you hear it enough. And like, we joked about like, the biggest bus thing and like, that's, you know. I'm glad you're at a point where you can laugh and it's something that people could talk about.

• 59:55Speaker 02

  I can say that. You guys care.

• 59:57Ryan Clark?

  Yeah, I'm not, I wasn't.

• 59:59Channing Crowder?

  I laughed about that locking up with you. I really don't want to wrestle your big ass.

• 1:00:03Ryan Clark?

  But like, truly, man, like, I think, you know, like, I can sit in this room and, you know, that year, my favorite football player in the world was Charles Woodson, actually, you know. And so I followed everything very closely, but like, everybody knew. Anybody who watched football knew how talented you were, knew how successful you were, knew what you meant when you were on the grass at your best. You know, we got to see you at your worst, but if they put a camera on all of us, we've all been that. And the film is the film, but just know, man, like, you did what you had to do that we remember the good as well, man. Like Freddie said, I echo everything he said, man. We're really grateful you came through.

• 1:00:46Ryan Clark?

  And that sort of transparency is why we started this platform.

• 1:00:50Channing Crowder?

  For sure.

• 1:00:51Speaker 02

  I'm glad you did. And if you wanna, if you wanna hear my story, from me, you go to my podcast, Bust, The Ryan Leaf Story.

• 1:01:00Speaker 02

  Kevin Connolly, from Entourage fame, produced it. He's, you know, he's, he got involved with it and really, we tried to do something different, where it's just me in front of a microphone, telling my story, you know, unvarnished. And we're releasing some bonus episodes. I had my, my college coach on, and then I had my warden from my prison on, and then I had Jay Posner, the reporter I yelled at, on. So I thought those were three really impactful guys that could give different perspective from than what my own was. Like, I was in that bubble, like, how was I in prison? You know, because I know I treated the guards like shit. Like, I tried to with them all the time. I know I did, but I wanted, I wanted to know what the perspective was coming from the warden.

• 1:01:44Speaker 02

  Like, was I a problem? It's like, Ryan, we never really saw you. You stayed in your room, you didn't do anything, you were incredibly depressed. And there were times, yeah, where you tried to. You know, tell everybody how important you are by trying to people, but, but we didn't see it, man. And so it was interesting to hear that kind of perspective. So those, those will be released here soon. And, uh, you know, it's been overwhelming to hear the, to feel the impact from people who listen to it. So.

• 1:02:10Ryan Clark?

  Thank you so much, man. Appreciate it. Man, Ryan Lefford, Ryan Lefford beat the piss out of you too. You were really little compared to him.

• 1:02:16Channing Crowder?

  I don't know, man. I got these knees.

• 1:02:20Fred Taylor?

  You down, bro. Way to go, bro.

• 1:02:24Ryan Clark?

  Appreciate you, man. I'm telling you, when I saw him on the.

• 1:02:26Speaker 02

  See, how it's supposed to work, man? We're running to each other.

• 1:02:28Ryan Clark?

  Hey, when I saw him on the treadmill though, I was like, this motherfucker is huge.

• 1:02:32Channing Crowder?

  It's funny. I walked up to the bar. I was gonna get me a wine and I walked up and I looked and I was like, oh, that's my.

• 1:03:02Speaker 05

  Every game day you show up for your team. Now it's your time.

• 1:03:13Speaker 06

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