Invisible Wars: U.S. Shutdown, Saudi Billions, & Why Bitcoin May Be Our Last Safe Haven | Tom Bilyeu Show

What’s up, everybody? It’s Tom Bilyeu, and today we are diving headfirst into the chaos of our current moment—government shutdowns, ballooning deficits, and political gridlock like we haven’t seen since the last time Washington came to a standstill. This episode, I’m joined by my co-host Drew, and together we’re breaking down what’s really at stake when politicians use the American people as leverage—and why true leadership means having the discipline to give people not what they want, but what they actually need. We're also tackling one of the most pressing and misunderstood financial conversations of our time—from the fallout of the government’s spending spree to the future of money in a rapidly digitizing world. Along the way, we’ll talk Bitcoin, stablecoins, and why understanding digital assets isn’t just for Wall Street insiders anymore—it’s vital for anyone who wants to thrive in the economy of the future. You’re going to leave this episode with a no-nonsense playbook for what to look for in real leaders, how to navigate financial uncertainty, and why it’s critical to develop your own point of view—beyond political labels and media noise. This is an episode for anyone who refuses to be a passive bystander in their own life—someone who wants actionable insights to become anti-fragile in uncertain times. So, if you’re ready to cut through the BS, challenge your thinking, and set yourself up to not just survive, but win—stick around. If you find value in today’s show, please leave us a review—it’s the single best way to help us reach others who are hungry to unlock their potential. I’m Tom Bilyeu, and this is Impact Theory. Let’s get into it. Hims: Start your free online visit today at https://hims.com/IMPACT. https://hims.com/IMPACT ButcherBox: Ready to level up your meals? Go to https://butcherbox.com/impact to get $20 off your first box and FREE bacon for life with the Bilyeu Box! SleepMe: Visit https://sleep.me/impact to get your Chilipad and save 20% with code IMPACT. Try it risk-free with their 30-night sleep trial and free shipping. Vital Proteins: Get 20% off by going to https://www.vitalproteins.com and entering promo code IMPACT at check out Linkedin: Post your job free at https://linkedin.com/impacttheory Found Banking: Try Found for FREE at https://found.com/impact Shopify: Sign up for your one-dollar-per-month trial period at https://shopify.com/impact What's up, everybody? It's Tom Bilyeu here: If you want my help... STARTING a business:join me here at ZERO TO FOUNDER https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show: https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show https://tombilyeu.com/zero-to-founder?utm_campaign=Podcast%20Offer&utm_source=podca[%E2%80%A6]d%20end%20of%20show&utm_content=podcast%20ad%20end%20of%20show SCALING a business:see if you qualify here. https://tombilyeu.com/call: https://tombilyeu.com/call Get my battle-tested strategies and insights delivered weekly to your inbox:sign up here. https://tombilyeu.com/: https://tombilyeu.com/ ********************************************************************** If you're serious about leveling up your life, I urge you to check out my new podcast,Tom Bilyeu’s Mindset Playbook https://open.spotify.com/show/47VE90Cittmo6TGGFqg2xf —a goldmine of my most impactful episodes on mindset, business, and health. Trust me, your future self will thank you. ********************************************************************** FOLLOW TOM: Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/tombilyeu/ Tik Tok:https://www.tiktok.com/@tombilyeu?lang=en Twitter:https://twitter.com/tombilyeu YouTube:https://www.youtube.com/@TomBilyeu Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices https://megaphone.fm/adchoices See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Tom Bilyeu?

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• 0:45Tom Bilyeu?

  Their dashboard tracks what comes next based on what your business actually needs. So EIN number, registered agent, licenses and permits, bookkeeping, business banking. I tell every founder the same thing. Just make it official. Click the link in the show notes to check out Taylor Brands and get started on your business today. This is a paid advertisement. Welcome, everybody, to the Tom and Bill U Show Live. We got a lot to cover today because the government is officially shut down. Republicans and Democrats could not reach an agreement. Their only point of leverage right now is to take the American people hostage. That's gross.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  This is the first shutdown since Trump's first term.

• 1:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, which, hey, listen, that's not lost on me.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27Tom Bilyeu?

  Thirty-five days under Trump. So I am not saying... I know people think that I'm just going to bat for Trump, which I could pull endless clips of me going in the exact opposite direction. But whatever, people are going to believe what they want to believe.

• 1:44Tom Bilyeu?

  But neither of them are... Both of them, this is a better way to say it, both of them are willing to take the American people hostage. It just happens to be right now, the Democrats are doing it in this instance.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  It's one of those things where it's like... What is the North Star? Kind of going back to your point earlier, like, what are the leaders supposed to be doing? What are they trying to lead us toward? And I think right now, we do get caught up in the negotiation of it all versus what do my people actually need?

• 2:13Tom Bilyeu?

  You've got to be prepared to be a leader that gets your people what they actually need, not what they want. You should be able to articulate, I mean, this is like Margaret Thatcher. You should be able to articulate, this is what you want, this is what you need. And right now, because of government fiscal responsibility, I'm going to give you what you need and not what you want. But because it actually does work, it starts moving things in the right direction. And this is terrible, and people, I think, hate this about my personality, but it's true, so I'm gonna say it. There's a hilarious meme where you've got this guy looking at TikTok and he comes across a furry who's like, whatever, doing some absurd shit in their bedroom and just acting a fool.

• 2:55Tom Bilyeu?

  And he walks over, peeks his head in his dad's bedroom and goes, "Dad, I just want to thank you for beating me as a child." Implying that like you kept me on the straight and narrow, that I would have had just as many like weird things that I would have pursued. But discipline kept me on the straight and narrow. And I'm exactly the same about my mom. Now, I would never classify what my mom did to me to discipline is beating me, but she spanked me. She once broke a wooden spoon on my ass. She once chased me down, stopped, picked up a tree branch and spanked me with the tree branch.

• 3:28Speaker 01

  That's a switch. Hey, you can go to the south now.

• 3:31Tom Bilyeu?

  And I was like, my mom is gangster. You don't play with my mom. And so I had tons of respect for my mom. She always made me feel loved, so like there was no, I don't have any trauma over this whatsoever. I felt like I was a kid that was constantly trying to push the boundaries. I wanted to see how much I could get away with. And my mom had boundaries. And so when I bumped up against the boundaries, there was a correction using what I like. I wanted to call him Trump, but it's not Trump. It is Jordan Peterson, his idea of minimum necessary force. My mom used minimum necessary force. And so always putting me back in line and because I always felt loved and because it worked and it kept me on the straight and narrow. It was like, this is fantastic.

• 4:11Tom Bilyeu?

  So we need that version of leadership where people are like, no, no, no, there's discipline because I know those things have consequences. We are not going to do that. We are going to balance the budget. We are going to make it so that elected officials are not eligible to be reelected if our debt to GDP ratio is out of whack. And so those kinds of disciplinary actions, I think are incredibly necessary for leaders, but they have to be able to articulate it. They have to be able to get people to buy in. And they have to have the will to do it, even if it makes them unpopular.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, I blame the debt ceiling conversation. Because that was one of the first times where political people realized this is now a negotiating point. We have to approve a budget now because once the just with interest, inflation, all these things were naturally going over the debt ceiling a lot. So now that's the first time the government had to negotiate how we're going to do a budget. And of course, when people see a power that like open, they try to grab it. And ever since then, it's I'll raise the ceiling if you do these things. Okay. Well, now we need to continue a resolution to pass the budget. And it kind of started this spiral. And to your point, we really just need austerity. I haven't gotten your Venezuela thoughts yet. You know, the US is bailing out Venezuela.

• 5:24Speaker 02

  We do have a super chat.

• 5:25Speaker 01

  Oh, let's do jump in the super chat. I'll prep that up.

• 5:27Speaker 02

  So really quick, Brutus Lugo said, Tom, how much are we actually saving if we deny healthcare to illegal immigrants? Can we put a number to this supposed problem?

• 5:38Tom Bilyeu?

  We should be able to. I don't know the number off the top of my head, but that sounds supremely findable. So yeah, you can look that up. The question isn't the line item of any one thing. The question is, we don't have a balanced budget. And so if we don't have a balanced budget and you are spending more money, this is why I have a beef with the big, beautiful bill. The big, beautiful bill increases the rate at which we are adding to the deficit. You can't do that. Like you don't have to tell me the details of what you're spending the money on. I'm just telling you right now, you can't do that. So I don't need to know all the details about how much illegal immigrants are going to cause. I don't have to know the details on Obamacare and. You can't spend more money.

• 6:20Tom Bilyeu?

  So if people are putting forward something that costs more money, I'm immediately going to be like, hold on a sec. Stop, we've got to negotiate this properly. Now, you can't just be an ideologue, you've got to do compromises. So as a pundit, it's easy for me to just be like, pump the brakes. In reality, I'm going to need leadership that can go in and do the hard work and making the compromises. And part of the compromise is going to be like, yeah, things are still going to be bad for the next generation. Hopefully, we can make it a little bit less bad or whatever. But I get it, there's, there is no utopia legislation coming. No, you'd never be able to get it signed. No one will agree on what the utopia is. So I, I'm well aware of that. But if you want to know how I parse through this stuff as I think through it, it's like, okay.

• 7:03Tom Bilyeu?

  I can automatically tell you my answer is no without further discussion. On anything where price go up. It doesn't matter if my favorite representative puts it forward. It doesn't matter if that money goes directly into my pocket. Because I'm not retarded and I understand. Boys and girls, hear me when I say PSA of all PSAs. We are on a march to revolution or civil war. More, because unfortunately now we're already at the more stage. More people will be killed if we don't solve this problem. And it is so obvious to me that this country will tear itself apart right at a time where China's on the rise.

• 7:47Tom Bilyeu?

  And the world will be a fundamentally different place. And in my opinion, a much worse place, a much more violent and dangerous place, certainly in my backyard. So I'm just wholly uninterested in that. So making more money off of this is not like, yay, this is so great. Dude, I'm, I am telling people everything I do to make money. Literally everything. I teach entrepreneurs how to be entrepreneurs. I tell you everything I know about investing. I tell people where I'm invested. I, I don't have some secret. I want other people to win in the same way that I'm winning. So, yeah.

• 8:30Speaker 01

  And as much as I came here hot saying we're not trying to just give healthcare to illegals, and then Brutus acts a super chat like that, and then it's just like, you know, I can't win. Just cut me at the knees. I was trying to help you out, bro. That's gonna be like the lasting talking point. I said Venezuela, I meant Argentina.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Trump is in negotiations to bail out Argentina's economy after it tanked. This did not hit your radar?

• 8:54Tom Bilyeu?

  No.

• 8:55Speaker 01

  Wow!

• 8:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Which I can't believe.

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's crazy. So right now, I'm trying to find a lot of information. Now, people are upset because Trump has a potential tariff aid with the farmers, that's another conversation. But Argentina's stock market collapsed last week, September 22nd. At that point, it was looking for options because people were losing their jobs, the economy was kinda upside down. At that point, Scott Besen offered a $20 billion swap line to aid and help stabilize the Argentinian peso because the currency started to like...

• 9:26Tom Bilyeu?

  Interesting. So, do we have any clips of Besen talking about this? I would really like to hear what his rationale is.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  I don't have a clip of Besen. The thing is, they are the austerity measure, they are the...

• 9:41Tom Bilyeu?

  That's the thing though, man. These things, like, they are what they are. And so, what we need to figure out is, is what he's doing going to work? Like, was this somebody... We need to know what caused the collapse in the market. Were a bunch of bubbles being inflated? Was somebody running like a short game and trying to damage the Argentinian market? Like, what was going on that caused this? Is this a justifiable, "Come in and save it, and we have reason to believe this is gonna be good for America"? Or is this them seeing somebody who is ideologically aligned with them? And so, they wanna make sure that he wins to be able to point to him as a success case?

• 10:24Tom Bilyeu?

  Like, I'm gonna need some information on this one.

• 10:29Speaker 01

  This is the commercial agreement from the beginning of the year that said they're open to this. And then this they actually have it. I'm trying to find something recent though. Man, I thought this was on your radar. My bad.

• 10:39Tom Bilyeu?

  No, not at all. So, uh, okay. Well, this is very interesting.

• 10:43Speaker 01

  No, this was just going back to the austerity, even the people that are doing the right things, even sometimes they need helps and bumps and stuff.

• 10:50Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, not only that, but the right things are the things that work. So this goes back to Ray Dalio's idea of a beautiful deleveraging. What Ray Dalio tries to warn people over and over and over is you have these four levers. Some are stimulatory and some are trying to cool the economy. And the reason you need both is because if you pull one lever, like say money printing, uh, which is stimulatory to the economy, but if you start doing that, then you create inflation. And if inflation gets out of hand, then that ends up destroying the economy. So you have like this weird balancing act that you have to walk. And so what it sounds like we're seeing is that they're pulling levers out of balance and now you're running into trouble.

• 11:35Tom Bilyeu?

  Now, I'll be very curious to look at this to see if what we see is, oh, man, he's just walking a really tight rope, minor slip up, you get him back on track, great. Or if he's out of his mind and he's done something that's incredibly stupid because he starts to believe his own hype and thinks he's the only one that sees things clearly. And as soon as people think they're the only ones that see things clearly, they start making mistakes. So, uh, it will have to look at this. That's why you will hear me say things like, yeah, you're going to need to tax the rich more. Then you're going to hear me say things like, if you tax the rich too much, they will leave. It's stupid. And oh, by the way, when America last had a 90% progressive tax bracket, you took in less per taxpayer than you're taking now. So I imagine people like, wait, what? Like, is he schizophrenic?

• 12:20Tom Bilyeu?

  What I'm trying to get people to understand is you have to do a little bit of it, but you have to be very careful. Because the second that you tip them too far, that they'll leave or stop producing. And by the way, you also have to run a game of like, hey, people like Tom. Uh, we need to paint a national vision that you can be excited about. I want to make you believe in America so that you feel patriotic, so that you want to help this country. That you feel like this country is your everything. But that's not the narrative that we've been telling people for the last 30 years. Narrative we've been telling people for the last 30 years is rich or evil. White people are racist and evil. And so it's like you start to feel less attached. Uh, if I were to hang up an American flag, I doubt it would last 72 hours.

• 13:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Meaning outside, somebody would rip it down. Uh, I have a friend, person is very famous. And they hung up a flag at their house and I was like, bro, someone's gonna rip that down. And uh, he was like, oh, they already have. I was like, what the fuck? So it is scandalous to me that we are telling ourselves a national narrative that our own flag is racist. That's the dumbest shit of all time. So it's like, if you want to understand how you get to a 90% tax bracket and people be like, yeah, I'm gonna pay it. They've got to believe that their country is amazing. It's the greatest in the world, that their country loves them back. And that ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for your country.

• 13:47Tom Bilyeu?

  And when everybody feels like that, then people are gonna give and they're gonna help and they're gonna do whatever they can. So this is a really weird cause from being successful for too long. This is the result of it all worked. All these ideas, they worked. And then when something goes well for too long, people grow up thinking, well, this is just how the world is. So now I feel guilty, I've got so much, they have so little, let me give them things or let me invite them into my country. Not realizing, oh, you got here because you killed a lot of people that tried to fuck with you. And we no longer understand that uh, Japanese blew up a bunch of our shit, killed a bunch of our people. And we just went and slaughtered the fuck out of them.

• 14:32Tom Bilyeu?

  And said, you will sit the fuck down and. If you don't, we will keep killing you en masse. Like, people don't understand how we got here. They don't understand how you get the ticker tape parade and all the prosperity. They don't understand that you have to go and stick a bayonet into the guts of a fucking Nazi. They don't get that. They don't get how you have to have the Marshall Plan and you have to rebuild people's psychology back. That you've got to be like, "No, no, no, Japan, you're amazing." "No, no, no, Germany, you're amazing. You can't do those things anymore." "But you're amazing. You've got to believe in yourself. You have to understand the things that make you great." And by giving people these national narratives, dude, in the 80s, this gets complex because we end up breaking their economy because we thought that they got too good.

• 15:14Tom Bilyeu?

  But we helped rebuild Japan psychologically and economically and just like physical infrastructure. And they took to it and they ran with it and they created a new narrative, a new culture, and it's amazing. Same thing with most of Europe, to be quite frank, but certainly Germany. And I was just in London not too long ago and I went to the Churchill War Room. And to think that people are now making Churchill a villain is so disgusting and such a slap in the face. Yeah, people are just ignorant to the way the world works. And so because they're ignorant to the way the world works, they don't have national pride. They don't see fellow Americans as being an in-group because it's just been too good for too long.

• 16:00Tom Bilyeu?

  We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead, so don't go anywhere.

• 16:07Tom Bilyeu?

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• 16:51Tom Bilyeu?

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• 17:31Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:16Tom Bilyeu?

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• 18:32Tom Bilyeu?

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action.

• 18:35Speaker 01

  All right, well, let's tap into the lifeline. Michael Saylor was on Bloomberg yesterday and he gave us the ones and twos of Bitcoin and how it's really going to blow up and take off.

• 18:47Speaker 03

  So not a big concern.

• 18:50Speaker 04

  Not a big concern. It's interesting. I mean, you think about the position that you hold when it comes to Bitcoin, which is basically never sell. You hold forever. And then I was listening to a conversation this morning with Tim Draper on BTV with Matt Miller, who was saying that Bitcoin is the currency of the future. You're going to have a day where you have US retailers using Bitcoin instead of US currency. And it falls into basically the store of value versus currency debate. And I wonder, Michael, whether those two viewpoints can coexist together, or is it going to be one or the other?

• 19:25Speaker 03

  No, I think that the digital asset economy is exploding, and the winning digital currency is the tokenized dollar in the form of tether and circle. And that entire asset class has exploded.

• 19:38Tom Bilyeu?

  Pause it for a second. This is a brilliant narrative that soothes the US government. And certainly, Trump obviously buys into this and is doing everything that he can. And I have a feeling, though I have no evidence for this whatsoever, but if Michael Saylor and David Sacks aren't in direct communication, I would be shocked. But they're singing certainly from the same hymnal, which is that we're in a position where we can get US debt to be the thing used to back these stable coins. So let's create a global market for US debt

• 20:22Tom Bilyeu?

  by promoting stable coins. And so I don't see how Bitcoin isn't better off if it were a currency. Now, I think that Bitcoin isn't a currency, probably largely for technical reasons, in that it's just too slow. You're not going to be able to run the kind of transactions, certainly not cheaply enough. But it's my understanding that right now, the only way that miners who protect the network are compensated is through mining. Mining will eventually go away. And so then they've got to have transactions. Once there's no mining transactions, what transactions are there? So maybe there's a brilliant explanation for that that I'm just unaware of. That is entirely possible, but I don't know of one.

• 21:01Tom Bilyeu?

  So it feels like they're like, we'll deal with that problem later. If this is a potent enough store of value, we'll find a mechanism to reward people. And I think they're right about that. But

• 21:15Tom Bilyeu?

  It does feel both true and convenient that treating the US dollar as how treasuries technically, how you back these stablecoins is like, I know that the US government is gonna need to hear that, that they're gonna be chill, so that we can cooperate with them and not be antagonistic. And I think it's genius. I also think it's politically expedient. And so, when I try to map out, when I hear Sailor say things like this, like, oh, this is just like de facto... No, just the way that it's gonna be is like, that's already one. And I think that this is narrative designed to further cement it in people's minds. I think Sailor is a brilliant spokesperson for Bitcoin, which by the way, I think is moral currency.

• 22:00Tom Bilyeu?

  I love it. I could not be more grateful. I'm glad that people are talking about it. But as the person who wants to build his reputation around saying all the things, and not just the things that sound good for what is good for me, I do think that that's part of the game, is we just have to make sure that the government is chill, that this also gives us the ability to sell our debt. So, take it with a grain of salt when he talks about it like, oh yeah, yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  I remember we had that clip from the Russian oligarch who was like, oh yeah, America's just trying to bury their debt in digital currencies. Do you think that...

• 22:32Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't think they're trying to bury their debt. I think they see, ooh, this incredible thing, this moral currency has come on, it's game steam, it is gonna happen. And, oh, I, the US government, realize, oh my god, if we use treasuries as a way to do these stablecoins, so anybody can spin up a stablecoin, as long as it's backed provably, one for one, with a US treasury, you're good. And it's like, now all of a sudden, oh damn, I'm in Paraguay, Mogadishu, Nigeria, whatever, and I just need to fund the wholesale slaughter of Christians, I'm gonna go and create, I'm gonna spin up a coin. I had to, Drew. I don't even know why, but I had to.

• 23:14Tom Bilyeu?

  It's so real. And that is, I think, just them being very smart, very shrewd, understanding that you can do that with the debt, which, listen, as an American, yay! And then also, if you're in even Argentina right now, one of the things they're trying to do is get people to use dollar first. Forget the peso. Use the dollar first. And if you can do that and get something more like a global currency... You're certainly going to be,

• 23:47Tom Bilyeu?

  if your currency is weak, you're going to be better off. You do invite the export of inflation. But if you've got your exit ramp into Bitcoin, and then it's only backed in like these really short-term periods by the inflationary asset, you've got a really good system. So it's one of those, it will work incredibly well, incredibly well.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  And then, of course, this helps our reserve currency status maintain a couple of decades.

• 24:15Tom Bilyeu?

  If you don't find a way to get people to buy your debt, as Japan and China and other places are getting rid of it as fast as they can. If you don't find a way for people to absorb those losses, plus, given all the extra money we want to spend, which becomes debt,

• 24:31Tom Bilyeu?

  you're in dire straits.

• 24:33Speaker 01

  Copy. Alright, let's close this.

• 24:35Speaker 03

  About $250 billion. I mean, so if people want a circulating medium of exchange on crypto rails, they're using stable coins in the form of tokenized dollars. Bitcoin has emerged as digital capital. What you want is a commodity that's also scarce and decentralized as a long-term capital asset. So the killer application of Bitcoin is digital credit issued against digital capital, whereas the killer application for medium of exchange is a digital currency in the form of a stable coin. I think the crypto industry understands this, and I think the people of the world understand it. If you talk to anybody and ask them, how are they going to pay for their cup of coffee? They're going to send a stable coin from their mobile phone app.

• 25:20Speaker 03

  And if you ask them, what do you give to your granddaughter? They're going to say, give them a Bitcoin.

• 25:26Speaker 01

  Alright, that sounds romantic and sweet. And I'm sure Michael Sale is going to bang that drum because he's, what, 74 billion? At this point, making 500 million every day on this thing, so.

• 25:36Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild, 500 million. Yeah, somebody said that he's a moron. He is anything but a moron. I just need to shout out Jay Mayer, who put a banger quote in chat. He said, "I have become debt destroyer of worlds." That's so good. We're hitting pause for a moment, but there's plenty more ahead, so don't go anywhere.

• 25:58Tom Bilyeu?

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• 26:41Tom Bilyeu?

  My link gets you an exclusive 30 days free instead of the usual 14-day trial. There's no credit card payment needed. Just head to pipedrive.com/impact to get started. Again, that's pipedrive.com/impact, and you can be up and running in minutes.

• 27:03Tom Bilyeu?

  Thanks for sticking around. Let's get right back into the action.

• 27:06Speaker 02

  Is Sailor being misleading, calling Bitcoin capital?

• 27:09Tom Bilyeu?

  I mean, people are using it as capital, so I don't have any beef with that. Because they're now offering loans against it and all that, so no. You could get into the semantics of it. I don't think it matters. The reality is, it is an asset class that people believe in, they will loan against. And so, yeah, you can effectively turn it into money instantly through stable coins. So whether via a loan or just actually directly selling it for stable coins. So, yeah, I don't have any beef with that. I don't think he's being dishonest. I do think he's trying to solidify a narrative to get people to behave in that way, but I don't think there's anything disingenuous about it.

• 27:53Speaker 01

  Thank you Plumber for the $50 super chat.

• 27:55Tom Bilyeu?

  Damn.

• 27:56Speaker 01

  Appreciate it.

• 27:57Tom Bilyeu?

  Damn.

• 27:58Speaker 01

  Alright, let's jump into it because there has been a lot of salty action happening. Let's start with the Electric Arts acquisition. This one blew my mind. 55 billion for a game development company.

• 28:10Tom Bilyeu?

  How dare you insinuate it should be less?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  No, I'm just, I love you Tom, I love Kaizen. I was like, 55 billion in 2025 EA, The Sims? Is that worth 55?

• 28:20Tom Bilyeu?

  It's a sports franchise.

• 28:22Speaker 01

  It was surprising to me.

• 28:23Tom Bilyeu?

  And what they do COD, right?

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Call of Duty, EA Sports, The Sims, I think are the biggest three. Gamers in the chat, let me know if I'm missing anything. So it's one of those things, this is good because any deal in a space means that activity is rolling, other people are looking for it, so I know why gaming would like it.

• 28:41Tom Bilyeu?

  I don't really care about it from that perspective. But in terms of, I expect players to care about this very deeply. Now, the player community is like, sort of in a weird state in terms of, one of the things that they're saying is, "Oh my god, yes." They've been bought by a company consortium of investment houses that are in Middle Eastern. This is gonna be great. No more work garbage, right? There's a huge contingency of millennial gamers. The more time I spend watching gaming content, the more I realize how much this is a millennial reaction. Utterly fascinating. But millennial gamers are up in arms about anything that has to do with woke, this, that, or the other.

• 29:26Tom Bilyeu?

  So like, this is gonna be awesome. But then people are like, "Whoa, hold on a second, didn't Saudi Arabia like, bone saw a cat to pieces?" Like, in the not too, like, distant past? Is that, like, aren't they gonna inject their own values into the games? So it'll be interesting to see how this plays out. So for sure, they're going to now inject their values or have bumpers in the alley of like, "Well, don't say things bad about us," or whatever. So you will for sure see that the bad guys in an EA game aren't gonna be Middle Eastern. Let's just say that. So they're gonna point you in some other direction. So certainly brace yourselves for that, but ultimately...

• 30:09Tom Bilyeu?

  Businesses like this, especially when you're doing it on debt, they need to make money. And so the things that I would expect gamers to really be focusing on is what are they going to do to the monetization here? Now, the reality is, as a game developer, I'm paying a lot of attention to where games are going in the future, and games are going mobile. Mobile gamers don't have all the beef with the microtransactions. So you can expect that they're hyper-aware of that, that they're going to be looking for ways to incorporate microtransactions into what they view as the future. And so if I were them, I would be looking at this going, "Oh, okay. How much of our revenue do we generate off PC gamers? Do we think that's increasing or decreasing? I would say it's decreasing. How much are we making off mobile? Do we think that's going to increase or decrease?

• 30:53Tom Bilyeu?

  I think they're all going to look at that and go, "That's increasing." So I would expect over the next 10 years for them to begin putting more and more of their time and attention into mobile. First things, migrating their famous properties into mobile playable games, either simplifying the mechanics, or just using more of the loot-driven mechanics, pay-to-win mechanics, things like that. And so millennial gamers, traditional gamers, however you want to think about it, which, by the way, I'm one of, not millennial, but traditional. So I play on PC and console, and I'm not a big fan of where things are currently on mobile gaming. But I think you're going to see a move like that. So if gamers are going to either be excited or be traumatized, I would look at it from that perspective, because these guys, like when they do acquisitions like this, they're not like, "I like games."

• 31:37Tom Bilyeu?

  They're going into this, and they're going, "Oh, I understand this at the level of a spreadsheet." The vast majority of the people involved in these acquisitions don't play games, have never played games, literally don't care. They are like Warren Buffett. They are sitting, looking at a bunch of spreadsheets and going, "Where is something undervalued? Where do we think we understand the future better than somebody else? Where is there a discrepancy between the price that the shares are trading at versus where we think they'll trade at in three or five years?" That's it, man. That is how they process through this stuff. It is totally mercenary. Now, you don't need to be traumatized by that, because one of the most mercenary things that a company can do is go find the young, hungry talent that really want to make something awesome. This is what always makes me laugh, is that, remember,

• 32:21Tom Bilyeu?

  companies are leading from the back. So you'll get, like, Quest ended up succeeding the way that it did because we led from the front. We were, for our own reasons, hell-bent to build that company, and we didn't know if it would work. And so if anybody remembers my story, the super speed run is we're doing a company before I get tired of being a slick marketer. And I want to do something that I believe in because I realize the struggle is guaranteed, the success is not. So I need to structure my life in a way where I would enjoy my life, even if I'm failing. And so the answer to that ends up being Quest for a whole host of reasons. So for my own weird selfish reasons, I'm like, I'm going to build a film studio inside of a protein bar company.

• 33:03Tom Bilyeu?

  That made us the first movers on social media because I knew how to create content because my background is filmmaking. So I started doing all this stuff, which now everybody does, but back then was like, what the fuck are they doing? And so we were shooting our own commercials, making like UGC style content, working with other people to make UGC style content like, it was just crazy. And so because we did it way ahead of anybody else, the company just absolutely explodes. So that was us going, eh, this might be a suicide run, but I really want to do this for my own reasons and it worked. Once it works, everybody else just floods in at the spreadsheet level. So everybody's looking for that, right? So the game I'm building, Project Heisen, I'm not building chasing a spreadsheet, I'm building the game I want to play. I've got a whole thesis about what I think is going to happen to the world.

• 33:49Tom Bilyeu?

  I think AI is going to make the world so easy that people are going to be forced to find hard mode and they're going to find it in simulated worlds. That isn't what I'm building today. I'm laying the foundation, trying to figure out the game mechanics, that's five, 10 years away. But anyway, so I'm leading from the front. Maybe it'll fail catastrophically. When you lead from the front, you run that risk. But this acquisition is about leading from behind. So gamers have proven, we want a mobile game. I'm just growing up with a mobile device, always in my hand, always easy. Uh, I, I'm not growing up in the PC era where it's like all my friends get together, it's just not how they play games now. So, um, if you want to understand where this acquisition goes, look at it through the lens of assets, investments, entrepreneurship, and it's going to get a lot clearer.

• 34:35Tom Bilyeu?

  And so, um, they'll try, they're going to try to maximize the revenue of profitable revenue. They're going to try to maximize the profits, is a better way to say it. They're going to try to maximize the profits of. All of those games and they will do it through the ways that I just talked about. So, uh, that's what I'd be thinking about. Now, I get why like it was sad for me to watch what happened to Star Wars, but there's always gonna be cool new shit. So like, look, I get it nostalgia, all that. Nobody's more like nostalgia baited than me. But at the same time, good games will continue to get made in the way that you like good games. They just might be super niche. Um, so I would, I, I will do a PSA to all of my millennial gamers out there. I've watched so much of your content, literally at this point, I've seen well north of a hundred

• 35:21Tom Bilyeu?

  videos about the state of the gaming industry specifically from, they don't call themselves millennials, but you can tell that they're millennials. Uh, from their perspective and it's just all lamentations. And, um, you are making these less fun for yourself. And I would just say, find a path to like, where's the joy? Where's people doing cool stuff so you can fall in love again? Um, I want that for you. Uh, so we'll see. Anyway, uh, that's the state of play right now.

• 35:49Speaker 01

  All right. So we have that on one side of the coin. Um, and honestly, the gaming community seems to be aligned with it. Hey, it's not private no more. Hey, I see this is gonna open up more investment. It hasn't been what we've seen on the other side where the Riyadh, uh, comedy festival was announced. And all these comedians were, uh, a lot, uh, were announced to be a part of it. And immediately everybody was mad like, how can they speak to this? This is the same country that killed the journalism. This is going crazy. People have memes because Pete Davidson lost his dad in nine 11. So people have memes of his dad looking in heaven like, how dare you go to the country that was, so there's a, it's kind of like on one side of this, people are like, okay, future gaming, we finally got the investment back. They're leaning from behind. We're good. But then on this side, it's like comedy, how dare you do comedy in our authoritarian regime?

• 36:34Speaker 01

  How dare you, uh, open up those relations? Are these on the same thing? Like, does this?

• 36:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Everybody's gonna have to decide, how do you treat somebody that has different values than you? Do you try to alienate them, isolate them and say until you think like I think fuck you? Or do you go, all right, listen, I don't like a lot of the things that they stand for. I see what they're trying to do. They're trying to modernize. Uh, I'm gonna look at the restrictions that they're putting me under and I'm either okay with the restrictions or I'm not and they can't make me say something I don't believe and I won't say something I don't believe but I don't need to go over there to be antagonistic. I am running a business, this is very good for my business, I'm gonna go or not. And so, I believe it's Shane Gillis that decided he wanted to take a principled stand, totally get that. In full disclosure, Saudi Arabia, I went to Saudi Arabia to do three live interviews

• 37:23Tom Bilyeu?

  there, they were doing a health expo and they wanted to bring me in to film live from the health expo and I went and did it. And I had no beef with it whatsoever, fully aware that Saudi Arabia itself had a journalist killed, but I'm like, it wasn't like the guy running this event is over there like wiping the blood off the bone saw. Come on, it's time, we're good. Just as I would not want to be judged for everything that America did, nor would I say that anybody coming to America is signing off on everything that America did. Oh, and by the way, I want people to cooperate with us. I think that Saudi Arabia is finally trying to step into the 21st century. Behind the scenes, I think that they are using violence to corral like the royal family, to get everybody pointed in the right direction, to understand

• 38:06Tom Bilyeu?

  that we're gonna have to move away from oil, all that. I see humans as incredibly complicated figures. You were not gonna look at any government, any point in history and be like, oh my God, they just did everything right. So, I was just praising the founding fathers, who, by the way, had slaves. So, it's like, you're just never gonna find it. So, I don't know what universe people live in. I don't have a beef with anybody that's like, you know what, I wanna take a principled stand, that means more to me. Yeah, go do your thing. That's gonna allow you to say things and be taken as credible later that other people won't be able to say. And for people that are like, yeah, man, listen, I'm not signing off on the government, but I've never made this much money for this before. Oh, and by the way, I wanna go see it for myself. Yeah, totally. That was exactly what I did. And

• 38:49Tom Bilyeu?

  I was like, my answer when asked was, they cannot get me to say something I don't believe, given that. I've got no problem. And so I went and did the interviews I wanted to do, said the things I wanted to say, and literally didn't have to corral myself. We were talking about health, so it's not like Saudi Arabia was gonna come up. So I was like, yeah, no beef with this whatsoever. So, that's how I would look at it. Like, these guys are running a business. They are entertainers. But when, let's say your normal fee is... 25,000 for a gig and they're gonna pay you 250,000? It's like, even as like a life story, it's just interesting.

• 39:30Tom Bilyeu?

  Again, they're not being invited by the guy wiping blood off the bone saw. So, and just keep in mind, how many people have American governments killed? Like this week? So, yeah, I don't know, I think people are, um, instead of trying to build bridges, people are trying to find reasons to be holier than now. Doesn't resonate with my belief system, but people should do what they think is right.

• 39:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, David Cross had like a whole like thesis statement about it. Other comedians have did reaction videos, so it, it really is mixed. But I just love how you said it. We shouldn't hold the organizers of the festival beholden to the actions of the government, assuming those aren't the same people. Now, if you do find out hypothetically speaking, that the, the prince that was responsible for getting the journalist killed is the person that decided to throw the

• 40:19Tom Bilyeu?

  Well, now, so here's the crazy thing. If you said, listen, MBS wants to meet with you, uh, I would do it a thousand percent. A thousand percent. And we can just assume he is the guy wiping the blood off of his bone saw. But when I think about how important the Middle East is gonna be moving forward, they're going to be the hub of investment dollars. I think the, at least, no, wait. It's something like seven of the biggest investment houses are in, uh, the Middle East. It's wild. So it's like, man, we should be looking for ways to, um, partner, join each other in the 21st century, to put that kinda stuff behind us.

• 41:02Tom Bilyeu?

  So MBS strikes me as a very important figure. And again, I think that, um, when you hear Dave Smith talk about Barack Obama, he's not wrong. And he's like Barack Obama's a murderer. He killed all these people with drone strikes and all that. And I'm like, yeah. But if Barack was like, Tom, I really wanna talk with you about the future of America, would you do it? Yes, yes, I would, very much. And, uh, I mean, look, that's weird. That is a, uh, it is a region of my brain where I'm like, this is how the world works. And leaders may not kill with their bare hands, but they kill a lot of people, man. And if we don't understand that this is how the world works, and that you both wanna call out when it's like, hey, we don't wanna do that.

• 41:47Tom Bilyeu?

  And at the same time that you don't go like Mamdammi is saying, I'm gonna arrest Netanyahu if he comes to New York. It's like, that's stupid. So you want to find ways to invite these countries into the 21st century. You want to find a way to bring them closer to your values and not isolate them. That would be my take.

• 42:09Speaker 01

  Do we have a responsibility though? And the reason that I'm kind of harping on this a bit is because right now we are so ideologically captured. Where a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about Bob Dylan shouldn't step foot in America because he made fun. You know what I mean? Like, so there's certain lines that we do have drawn in the sand. Is it, where is that balance between this could be a bridge for the future?

• 42:31Tom Bilyeu?

  If MBS was like, listen, I'm gonna keep killing your journalists, but I would like to invite a bunch of journalists over. Then I'd be like, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. I wouldn't expect anybody to go. That would be wild.

• 42:43Tom Bilyeu?

  But he's not. And obviously, there's like evidence and all that, that he was involved and blah, blah, blah. So it becomes a question of,

• 42:56Tom Bilyeu?

  what's going to be the thing that you draw the line on? Is it that they did a thing ever that we think is morally repugnant? In which case, Trump's gotta go, Biden's gotta go, Obama's gotta go, Clinton's gotta go. Like, you literally just run down the list of American leaders all the way back to Washington's gotta go. Like, as far as I understand, Washington had slave teeth in his own mouth. Okay? He pulled the teeth, somebody fact check me if I'm wrong, but he had dentures that were made from like, I think some horse's teeth, some wood, if I remember right, and then some slave teeth. So, uh, that's horrific. So, but at the same time,

• 43:40Tom Bilyeu?

  When he had the opportunity to become dictator for life of America, he didn't do it. He also fought the British and garnered America its freedom. So it's like, yeah, I'm not going to throw him out with the bathwater. I'm not going to say his face needs to be taken off Mount Rushmore. When I teach that in schools, I'm going to say, listen, despicable things were done, but we are not going to focus on that. What we need to focus on is what makes this country great? What are the values that we want to embrace? And it is absolutely antithetical to moving forward well to say that we're evil or the product of evil. Or it, it doesn't even matter if it's factual. It just matters that it's not useful moving forward.

• 44:21Tom Bilyeu?

  So same thing, if the Middle East is going to transition off of oil and get into tech, get into biotech investments, get into entertainment, whatever, and they're going to be a driving force there, we want to have good relationships with them. And so, yes, there needs to be pressure. You can't, like if they killed a journalist now and we're like, okay, we just did that thing and now we're inviting everybody over. I'd be like, yo, this is way freakish. Just to like, make sure they understand, I think that that's a non-starter. I'm not going. Cause if they did some atrocity right now, I'd be like, no fucking way. So it, all of that factors into as people build their belief system about how do we approach the world? For instance, should we have invited Putin into a negotiation?

• 45:05Tom Bilyeu?

  Obviously, but he's killing Ukrainians. Yes, you have to find an offer up. You've got to treat this guy like a human, even though you think he may be committing war crimes. Same with Bibi Netanyahu, same with Hamas, same with Palestine. It's like, you've got to find a way to work with these people. In fact, there's an image of a guy that's in the, is he in the UN? He's in the UN or something like that where there's footage of him holding two decapitated heads. And he's now in a leadership position in the world. Somebody who's going to know chat, please rescue me here. And what do you do with that? Well, if he's in a position of leadership, you got to deal with him.

• 45:47Tom Bilyeu?

  So this is one of those where, yes, like when Trump brought the South African leader into the White House, you say, bro, you've got farmers being killed. You guys are moving in the wrong direction. We've got to address it. But you don't go, they're despicable, we'll never speak to them.

• 46:07Tom Bilyeu?

  Then there are of course lines around recency. More words are just going to loop.

• 46:11Speaker 01

  Uh, okay. Uh, shout out to Yeti Bandit. He just dropped the link to the Shane Gillis of George Washington slave joke.

• 46:20Speaker 05

  He said, "George Washington slave court." By the way, the first thing you do when you walk into George Washington slave court is you go, "Ooh." Somehow worse than I thought they were gonna be. It's rough, dude. That guy had a fucking dungeon. For real, you didn't know, "I'm in there." And I'm by myself and I'm like, you know, you remember that time, it was a tense fucking time in this country. And I'm in there by myself like, "Jesus fucking Christ."

• 46:42Tom Bilyeu?

  This is like during BLM.

• 46:43Speaker 05

  And then I hear some footsteps coming down the path behind me. And now blocking the only exit of the room was a slave reenactor.

• 46:54Speaker 05

  They have those there. And he did not break character. I turned around, he was like, "Oh, well hello there, sir." Jesus Christ, dude, please, you don't have to do the character. I'd give anything for you to not do that character. He didn't break. He was like, "Look at those clothes. You must be from the future." "Hello, time traveler." I was like, "No, I'm from right now. What are you doing out?" "Come here now."

• 47:20Speaker 05

  No, I did not say that. Obviously, I didn't fucking say that. I didn't say a word. I was frozen. I was paralyzed with white guilt. I didn't say a word.

• 47:30Tom Bilyeu?

  He's good.

• 47:31Speaker 05

  And he knew what he was doing. He, for real, he knew what he was doing, dude. He wasn't giving me the George Washington tour. He was just drilling me with shit I didn't want to hear. He was hitting me with the, you remember that time, tense time, that guy walks in there and sees me. "I know what I look like." I know exactly. I got, you know, I've got the body type of a guy who says, "Let's see the rest of the body cam footage before we jump to anything."

• 47:54Speaker 05

  I know what I look like.

• 47:57Speaker 05

  He wasn't even giving me the George Washington tour. He was just telling me fucked up shit. He was talking about other people. He was like, "Thomas Jefferson had about six slave children of his own." "He only freed two of his own children during his lifetime."

• 48:09Tom Bilyeu?

  That's wild.

• 48:11Speaker 05

  Isn't that a bummer? Thomas Jefferson literally enslaved some of his own children?

• 48:17Speaker 05

  Yeah, now you know how I felt, dude. I was getting fucking drilled with this information. That's when I started playing possum a little bit. It was like, maybe I am a special needs guy.

• 48:28Speaker 05

  So he was hitting me with the fucking white guilt facts. I was...

• 48:36Speaker 05

  It was a battle, dude. It was like two wizards fighting.

• 48:45Speaker 05

  Finally, I won by just lowering my mask. He was mid rant.

• 48:49Speaker 05

  Oh shit, my bad, brother.

• 48:54Tom Bilyeu?

  Dude, so funny. Didn't get into teeth part. And I'm pretty sure he does in that talk about it. But listen, that unfortunately is one I have on good authority that it's not, not a story you want to be true, but is nonetheless true. So, I don't know, I think it comes down to how you map people. If you think some people are perfect and then you can hold out for perfect. I'm far more in the reality of the knife fight of geopolitical strife. They kill people, like literally everybody, they all of them. And this is why I think that the Putin quote about, oh, everybody gets elected on all these crazy ass promises and then they don't follow through with them because men in black suits that look like me walk up and tell you how the government really works. And so, yeah.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  It kind of threw me for...

• 49:39Tom Bilyeu?

  Oh wait, so hold on. Rotar says, "Tom, the UN guy holding the two heads is Ahmad Al Sharah, also known as Abu Mohammed Al Jolani." So word. If you look that up, I've seen the image. It is wild. Like you see him in both modes. You see him like looking a little more like he spent some time in some underground shelters, a little disheveled. And then other ones where he's like all done up and his beard's all cut clean. And in the one where he's underground, he be holding them heads. There it is! Enjoy, everybody. Look at that. That is wild. So now, okay, let's say you bump into homeboy.

• 50:22Tom Bilyeu?

  And I don't know whose heads he severed, but let's say they were friendlies. And then you bump into him at the UN. What do you do? You scream, you throw a fit? You walk out, anytime he's in the room, nope, can't have it. Or do you go, yeah, the world is a crazy ass place. And so what's the long-term play? How do we back more people away from this? I fall into the camp of, yeah, the world is a crazy place. And you're not going to see me at his kid's like 12th birthday party. But like if we're going to try to find a path forward, like I would rather know what this guy thinks, where he's at, what he's looking for, what can we do? But as they say, forgive, but don't forget, like, bro,

• 51:07Tom Bilyeu?

  if I found out later that you had severed two heads and there were photos of you carrying them around, let's just say we're not going to Hamilton together, bro.

• 51:15Speaker 01

  Not the Hamilton tickets.

• 51:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Yeah, but hey, listen, it's wild. So anyway, I think I'm maybe a little too accepting of how the world is for people's taste. But if we're going to actually try to get things done, you can't, you can't like just infinitely let things slide. And at the same time, you've got to be in the real world.

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think there is a line of like righteous indignation that a lot of people are like walking where it's like, I am so right about this thing, I will cut off my family for it to show you that Trump is a bad guy. And it's like, Trump is not saying, thank you, Sarah, coming to my arms. Like you're not getting a Turning Point USA membership because you like, so the alienation of actual people who we need to fix these problems, that's the part that I really don't appreciate. So as much as it's they're the bad guys, we're the good guys, us versus them, all this other like jargon, just like with this government shutdown, we need to be bipartisan, whether we want to or not, you need to. So the name-calling and all this stuff, it has to eventually end.

• 52:16Tom Bilyeu?

  Also, like if you think about it, they're, they're inviting people that are of Western culture into their country. And of course they're going to give them like, don't make fun of Saudis, Saudi government. But they're still inviting people of Western culture in. That's a very good sign. All right, everybody, we are at the end. Make sure you clown on Drew extra hard for apparently sleeving through his alarm or not setting his alarm. How dare he? Shout out to my boys who were here on time. You know, I love you guys. Well played. And to everybody that shows up for this show, we cannot thank you enough. It's amazing. So we very much appreciate your engagement. It's incredible. The future is bright, but it's not going to happen by accident. And by the way, thank you guys so much for watching the deep dives.

• 52:59Tom Bilyeu?

  They continue to routinely hit one out of 10 for us, which is phenomenal. I could not be more grateful for you guys. Engagement with that, I'm trying to make them about the most important things happening in the world today. The most recent one, if you haven't seen it yet, was on Charlie Kirk. Please watch that. It's not just about Charlie Kirk, it's about what Charlie Kirk means. It's about how we find each other back in the middle, how to make sense of the violence that's happening right now. So please, please, please, since they all end in a playbook on how to move forward well in these moments of hyper disruption, will you please go give it a look? If you like it, please share it. That would mean the world with us. Like, subscribe as always. All right, guys, love you bunches. Let's talk about a pattern that is guaranteed to be killing your progress. You know what you need to do. You need consistent nutrition.

• 53:44Tom Bilyeu?

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• 54:27Tom Bilyeu?

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