Mel Robbins: The #1 Skill To Master To Create Your Most Abundant Life

Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Despite achieving massive success with her latest book “Let Them", today Mel Robbins shares how she spent decades battling self-hatred and constant anxiety until she finally addressed her nervous system's fight-or-flight response rooted in childhood trauma. Mel also reveals how her groundbreaking "Let Them Theory" emerged from a transformative moment at her son's prom, where her daughter's blunt advice changed everything. Her powerful perspective on building self-belief through consistent action rather than external validation offers a blueprint for anyone feeling stuck—success isn't about perfect habits or natural talent but simply showing up when you don't feel like it and refusing to let discouragement win. Mel’s books:The Let Them Theory: A Life-Changing Tool That Millions of People Can't Stop Talking AboutThe 5 Second Rule: Transform your Life, Work, and Confidence with Everyday CourageThe High 5 Habit: Take Control of Your Life with One Simple HabitIn this episode you will learn:Why success is ultimately about not quitting, even when everything feels impossibleHow to develop faith in yourselfThe two biggest obstacles to achievementWhy external success never repairs internal self-worth, without addressing your relationship with yourselfHow to recognize and reset your nervous system when it's stuck in chronic fight-or-flight modeFor more information go to https://www.lewishowes.com/1761For more Greatness text PODCAST to +1 (614) 350-3960More SOG episodes we think you’ll love:Mel Robbins – greatness.lnk.to/1710SCGabby Bernstein – greatness.lnk.to/1714SCMelissa Wood-Tepperberg – greatness.lnk.to/1690SC Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  Welcome back my friend to another episode on the School of Greatness. We have a massive guest today. Her name is Mel Robbins. I've known her for over eight years and she is literally exploding everywhere right now with her new book, The Let Them Theory, which I think has been number one on Amazon for almost three or four months now. And number one on the New York Times Bestseller List for the last few months. It is everywhere. And we sat down during my book tour in the last few weeks ago. We sat down and talked about her personal journey of how she's actually navigating this cultural phenomenon that's happening with her book,

• 0:41Lewis Howes?

  The Let Them Theory. And she shares how she's dealing with success and staying grounded and staying present. This is the type of goal, success, or dream that most people who have an idea, who want to launch a product, or a book, or a course, or anything like that, this is the dream most people have. They want to be number one on the Bestseller List. They want to be number one on the New York Times List. They want to have the number one podcast in the world. This is the dream. If you have a podcast, a book, if you're trying to do anything in this industry online, Mel is at the top of the game right now. And if that's something you've ever wanted to learn how to do, or even just get your stuff started and learning how to manage and navigate the success, the weight, the pressure of it all,

• 1:23Lewis Howes?

  because there is extremes. Once you hit the extreme, she's going to be sharing some of this process. And she really opens up about her personal journey of healing childhood trauma, breaking free from destructive patterns that have held her back, and finally learning to feel at peace with herself regardless of the achievements and the criticism and all of it. She doesn't hold back about her struggles with self doubt, anxiety, and the constant need for control that plagued her for decades. If anyone here listening right now has ever wanted to control everything about your work, or your career, or your message that goes out, and you've wanted to look a certain way, and you want everyone to like you, this is going to be perfect for you. If something's been holding you back on your insecurities or your self doubt,

• 2:08Lewis Howes?

  you're going to want to listen to this over and over again, and you're going to want to share this with your friends and family, because I know you have people in your life who are blocking their ability to create freedom inside of them and externally to get to the next level. Of what they want. There's a lot of talented people out there who are being held back by some of these things. So if you know someone in your life like that, then please send them this link because you're going to get a ton out of this conversation. Again, we got to share during my book tour, if you haven't gotten my new book, Make Money Easy, it's all about healing your relationship with money. So you can set yourself into financial freedom internally and externally. Make sure to grab a copy of Make Money Easy. And also, if you have not got a copy yet, I don't know where you've been in the last few months,

• 2:53Lewis Howes?

  make sure to get a copy of The Let Them Theory, again, which is number one on every book list out there in the world right now, and continues to just go bananas all over the place. Make sure to get a copy of each one of them. And I cannot wait for you to dive into this episode with the one, the only Mel Robbins.

• 3:14Lewis Howes?

  You know, I just had you on the show a few months ago.

• 3:16Mel Robbins?

  Uh huh.

• 3:17Lewis Howes?

  But it was before the madness.

• 3:20Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 3:20Lewis Howes?

  It was like the madness was coming. You knew it was about to hit, but it's hit in the last few months in a big way, in a beautiful way.

• 3:27Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 3:28Lewis Howes?

  How have you been able to expand your emotional nervous system and your kind of energetic container?

• 3:35Mel Robbins?

  What the hell kind of question is that?

• 3:37Lewis Howes?

  What am I saying?

• 3:37Mel Robbins?

  (audience laughing)

• 3:38Lewis Howes?

  How have you been able to prepare to be able to receive this much abundance?

• 3:43Mel Robbins?

  Oh, it's a great, that is actually, and you know what, I just learned that when you say actually, it is like a backhanded compliment.

• 3:51Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 3:51Mel Robbins?

  So I didn't mean to say that.

• 3:52Lewis Howes?

  You're actually really nice.

• 3:53Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, it's actually a good question. I'm sorry.

• 3:55Lewis Howes?

  You're actually, yeah.

• 3:56Mel Robbins?

  But I have a problem.

• 3:56Lewis Howes?

  It wasn't that bad, yeah.

• 3:57Mel Robbins?

  Right, because it's a filler word for me. So I don't mean it to be that way. It's a great question because there's no question that this is kind of one of the biggest moments of my life. And I think there are going to be times in your life where you're getting married or divorced, right? Or you're having a child, or you're giving a eulogy?

• 4:23Mel Robbins?

  Or you're graduating, or you're launching a business, or you're putting your art out into the world, and you recognize that this is a moment. And so, as this thing started to take off, and you know, you said, "This is this Mel. I've known you for eight years." And you know, Louis and I have a very, like, you can probably already tell, a relationship like an older sister, younger brother. And he was the first person to interview me when I self-published the Five Second Rule book. So this man showed up for me when nobody else, like, knew who I was. I'd never, like, done anything, had no social following,

• 5:07Mel Robbins?

  and Louis kind of plucked me from obscurity and supported me. And I think it's so important to remember the people who supported you. And so, it's been an interesting experience because I know that this is way bigger than me. I mean, I'm obviously, this is not a new idea, that you stress yourself out when you focus on things that are outside your control. Viktor Frankl's Man's Search for Meaning, Stoicism, Buddhism, the Serenity Prayer. You know, as you start to use this in your life, you probably remember things your grandparents said to you, or things that your parents said around the kitchen table, or that you heard at a sermon or at synagogue. And so, it's sort of powerful because it's reminding you of something you already know. And so, as this started to take off and resonate,

• 5:51Mel Robbins?

  and I'm realizing this is one of those moments, I have missed out on so much of my life because I was anxious, or afraid, or felt like I was undeserving. I was not able to be present and allow it in, that I was like, "I am not missing this." And so, I asked somebody for some advice, and they gave me this kind of visual where they said, "I want you to just imagine that you're on a plane, and the plane is moving 500 miles an hour at velocity, and you're going to feel like this at times in your life." And what's weird about these moments is that there's this sense of acceleration, but there's also this real slowing down.

• 6:31Mel Robbins?

  If you can allow yourself to be present. Like if you've ever been present for a child being born. If you've ever stood at the end of a Nile. As your partner is about to walk in.

• 6:45Lewis Howes?

  It's a moment.

• 6:46Mel Robbins?

  It's a moment. And so I have just visualized myself kind of in an airplane that's moving 500 miles an hour. But my job is to sit in the seat. And to have my water. Or something a little harder. And look out the window and occasionally check out the view.

• 7:07Lewis Howes?

  Enjoy the view.

• 7:08Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and I think that it's a useful thing because I've also in the middle of this, you know, things are going on in life and things are going on, you know, with my kids and with my husband. And everything's not perfect, but I've even noticed that when stuff feels like it's flying sideways. Just having this meditation to say, okay, my life can feel like it's moving super fast. But if I just take a breath and remind myself that I don't need to get caught up in this. I can really just stay present in the moment. And that's what's helped me to kind of allow it in and also just realize it's just so much bigger than me.

• 7:51Mel Robbins?

  Like this is tapped into something. Like I think there are times in life where there's a lot of negativity. Whether it's in your relationship or your family or your community or the world at large. And if you pay attention, there are corresponding positive messages. And I feel that right now in particular, I mean, you all showed up. What night is it tonight? Is it a Monday?

• 8:14Lewis Howes?

  I think it's Monday.

• 8:15Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my God, on a Monday night.

• 8:17Lewis Howes?

  Tuesday night, I don't know.

• 8:19Mel Robbins?

  See, I'm not that present. A Tuesday night to be at an inspiring event. Because you're the kind of person that wants to grow and learn and surround yourself with other people who do. That is a big deal.

• 8:35Mel Robbins?

  Like, there are millions of people 20 miles from here. Millions and millions, but you chose to be here. That says something about you. And so, I also feel that, you know, in moments where things feel overwhelming in life, that being somebody that is putting something positive out and showing up for people is more important than ever. And you're doing that by being here, and you're doing that by what you do. And so, I think kind of you receive, you're able to receive it if you're present and if you realize it's almost never about you.

• 9:09Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. Now, for the last eight years since I've known you, and you were, you were working really hard in developing your communication skills for many years before then. You've been one of the top speakers in the world. You've had big moments. You're a great content creator, marketer, entrepreneur. Like, you've done a lot of big things in the last eight years. It's not like this is out of nowhere. For those who are entrepreneurs in the room who have been like trying to build it and grow it, or maybe are struggling, how did you, I guess, emotionally prepare yourself? I know I already asked this a little bit, but how did you really emotionally prepare yourself for what was really to come?

• 9:46Mel Robbins?

  I don't think you do. I really don't. No, I'll tell you why, because that question presumes that I, like, somehow was self-aware enough in the middle of the stuff that you're doing to actually think that I need to prepare myself for something else. Now, it's gonna sound like I'm contradicting myself, so.

• 10:10Lewis Howes?

  Because you knew this was gonna be big, though. You had a, there was like an energy before launch.

• 10:14Mel Robbins?

  Hold on a second. So, let's go, like, so if you go back in time, right? Like, one of my favorite things to do, because personally, I personally believe, whether we're talking business, or you're talking building a social media following, or you're talking any kind of art that you want to take off, any kind of money you want to make, I literally believe, Louis, that success is a matter of not quitting. Like, that's what it comes down to. It really does. And, you know, more than anything else, like, I just was like a tenacious person. I'm just like, I'm not gonna stop here. And there were so many things that I did not do well. Not at all. I mean, like, in terms of, like, just the talk show that literally got canceled

• 10:59Mel Robbins?

  because it sucked. Oh, my God, I love you. Thank you for being there. I'll blame the fact that it was canceled on me and not on you, okay?

• 11:07Lewis Howes?

  Here's the thing. It didn't suck, though. I mean, how many episodes did you do?

• 11:11Mel Robbins?

  Well, we taped like 174.

• 11:13Lewis Howes?

  So it can't suck if you do 174 episodes.

• 11:16Mel Robbins?

  That's true, but they were airing it. Like, it can really stay.

• 11:19Lewis Howes?

  But also, there was COVID, right? It stopped because of COVID.

• 11:22Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, but you know what, Louis, I'm willing to be honest.

• 11:23Lewis Howes?

  Here's the thing, you're discounting yourself, though.

• 11:25Mel Robbins?

  I'm willing to be honest.

• 11:26Lewis Howes?

  I'm gonna stop Mel for a second because you're discounting yourself.

• 11:28Mel Robbins?

  No, you gotta look at the ratings. People were not watching. And when they don't watch, you don't make money, and then they cancel the show.

• 11:35Lewis Howes?

  Just because people don't watch doesn't mean it sucked.

• 11:37Mel Robbins?

  Okay, now, so hold on. Let's build on this, right? So here's the thing that I developed out of survival. So there are the things that you do out of survival that turn out to be brilliant. And when I was creating some of the things that I'm about to share with you, they were not because I was brilliant. It was because I was trying to keep myself going, especially in times when I needed to pay bills and I needed to get out of debt. And so whenever I felt like quitting, I would literally have a pep talk with myself, and I would say, "This is not how my story is gonna end." I just refused to believe that. And I refuse

• 12:20Mel Robbins?

  to believe that this is how it ends. And so I would say those kinds of things to myself, even though I felt like this is the end, and I just made the stupidest decision I could have ever made, or I just lost more money, or that didn't work out, just another twist, another... And so that's one thing that I would do. The second thing that I would do, Louis, is there's this thing that I do with time traveling, where I go to the past and I go to the future. So it's easy in this moment. I don't know where you are in your business. I don't know where you are in your career or your life. But it is easy to sit in this moment and to look backwards and to make sense of all of the twists and turns that have happened to you, right?

• 13:05Mel Robbins?

  And...

• 13:08Mel Robbins?

  To say to yourself, "Okay, I can see the lessons. I can see how I grew. I can see how that made me stronger." It is a very important skill to take that ability of making sense of the past and actually project it forward. And this is how you develop faith in yourself and your capability to see yourself through the twists and turns that life is going to demand of you. And so, as you sit in this moment, the skill to develop from this point forward is to look ahead and tell yourself that I have faith that this moment too, just like every

• 13:51Mel Robbins?

  moment I can see in the past, is but a brick on the path of my life that is leading me towards something I cannot see yet. And I have faith that whatever this experience is delivering, no matter how much it blows, no matter how painful it is, no matter how much I don't deserve this, that this too will be part of the thing that gets me to something even greater. And that is how I built what you're talking about, but never in a million years. Like, I have big aspirations and goals, just like everybody here. That's why you're here on a Tuesday night, right?

• 14:32Mel Robbins?

  You're investing in yourself, you're learning, you're surrounding yourself with incredible people that want to do the same. And so, even though I had amazing goals, like, this is completely just blown apart what I ever thought was possible for myself.

• 14:50Lewis Howes?

  It's crazy. In a good way.

• 14:52Mel Robbins?

  Completely shocked and humbled by it all.

• 14:55Lewis Howes?

  What was the goal of, like, "Okay, I'm going to launch this book," and did you have, like, a number in mind of how big it would be? And then it just went so far above and beyond? Is that what happened?

• 15:03Mel Robbins?

  Like, I just had always thought...

• 15:07Mel Robbins?

  That it would be great to have a book that I don't like, I don't even know. Like, I wasn't even thinking like 10 million copies of this, like, who sells that many books? Who's even reading books? Right? I mean, I, so I, I just never thought, because it's bigger than that. It is something that has transcended the 322 pages. It is, it has caught wind at a moment in time where everybody needs help focusing on what's in your control so that you can focus on what's meaningful and so that you can protect yourself from outside stressors that are draining your time and energy.

• 15:53Mel Robbins?

  Like, like, never more in my life has this been more important or more relevant. And so, I never, ever, Louis, thought that it would, I would be, I never thought that I would just be somebody that this many people knew about, or that my work would be this public. Like, I know the impact of the five-second rule. I know that how that has spread around the world. We know of more than 1,000 people that have, that have taken the time to write to us who did not die by suicide, because they used the five-second rule in a moment to stop themselves and ask for help. And so, I thought that is, that, like, that is the most extraordinary thing that could

• 16:36Mel Robbins?

  ever happen to a person, to put something out into the world that actually helps people and saves lives. So, to think that this tool has so far eclipsed that, it's just unreal.

• 16:50Lewis Howes?

  And what have you done before you got here? I was talking about The Weight of Gold. There's a documentary called The Weight of Gold, which is, where Olympians kind of sabotage themselves after they win the gold medal.

• 17:00Mel Robbins?

  Oh, I'm never writing another book, because I can't top this. That's what you mean.

• 17:04Lewis Howes?

  No, not that, not that, but how have you?

• 17:09Lewis Howes?

  Stayed present within yourself to make sure you don't sabotage yourself with the success. Like how have you said like, oh, am I actually deserving of this? Or am I actually worthy of this? How have you made sure you've been able to say?

• 17:21Mel Robbins?

  I don't even think about that.

• 17:22Lewis Howes?

  You don't think about it?

• 17:22Mel Robbins?

  No, because I know how hard I worked writing that book with my, with my daughter and how much research went into it and the experts and, and.

• 17:30Lewis Howes?

  So you don't have any doubt around like?

• 17:32Mel Robbins?

  Zero.

• 17:33Lewis Howes?

  That's good.

• 17:33Mel Robbins?

  Zero, because I, because here's the other thing. I don't, like, I'm very proud of the impact. I'm just proud that people are reading a book. I'm proud that people are interested in this moment in time in reading a nonfiction book. A self-help, are you kidding me?

• 17:52Mel Robbins?

  And, and that they're, I know they're reading it. Why? Because they're recommending it to people. And so I think it's bigger than a book because to me that's a sign of hope. That people are taking time and turning it inward to improve themselves, which is how you create a ripple effect that improves everything. And so, you know, I, I guess, I, the one thing that I'm doing is I feel very lucky because we live in Vermont, right? So it is not, I could not live in LA.

• 18:23Lewis Howes?

  It's peaceful in Vermont.

• 18:24Mel Robbins?

  Oh, there's mountains, there's trees, there's, you know, we raised our family here in Boston.

• 18:31Mel Robbins?

  And then we moved to southern Vermont and my son went to high school up there. And it, it is not in my face. It is easy to not get full of yourself when you wake up and there's bear poop in your driveway. And you shop at a hardware store for your groceries and you, nobody cares. And honestly, that, like, I don't either. And so I feel like I'm removed from the noise that is media and the machine and all the stuff that can, could really trip me up.

• 19:11Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 19:11Mel Robbins?

  And since it's not in my face, I don't really think about it.

• 19:13Lewis Howes?

  That's amazing. But I know your story from in your early 40s. I think it was like 800,000 or a million dollars in debt and.

• 19:21Mel Robbins?

  19 miles from here, everybody. Right by Framingham. Yep, 19 miles, $2,800,000 in debt. My husband had restaurants in the Boston area.

• 19:33Lewis Howes?

  So how do you build belief after having big financial failures? How do you continue to show up again and again and not just say, "I am a failure." Not, "This was a failure."

• 19:45Mel Robbins?

  Right. Everybody hates this answer.

• 19:49Lewis Howes?

  Yep.

• 19:50Mel Robbins?

  Because it's not a pill. No, I'm serious. And it's not, it's not like a quick fix and it's not one thing. Like, I literally will tell you, what changed my life was getting out of bed when I didn't feel like it. And the reason why that's important, and it's the same thing that you talk about and nobody wants to hear it. I don't even want to hear this. Is that there is a skill in life that I didn't learn until I was 41 years old and I was about to lose everything. And the skill is, can you do the things you need to do when you don't feel like doing them? It's that simple. Everything that you want to create in business and in life is possible through action and patience. That's it.

• 20:33Mel Robbins?

  And if you only did the things you don't feel like doing, you would have everything you wanted.

• 20:38Lewis Howes?

  It's true. Being a champion is not a sexy life.

• 20:41Mel Robbins?

  No.

• 20:42Lewis Howes?

  Being a champion, like being an athlete from the sports world, even the greatest athletes in the world, they live a very boring life.

• 20:49Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 20:50Lewis Howes?

  Because they get up and they do Groundhog's Day over and over. They get up at 5:00 a.m. when they don't want to wake up. They eat whatever, the same food every morning. They go to the gym the same way and they just do the same repetition, win or lose.

• 21:01Mel Robbins?

  Uh huh.

• 21:02Lewis Howes?

  Until they get to what they want. It's not sexy.

• 21:05Mel Robbins?

  Not, it's boring. Actually, it's grueling. It's boring. It's the reason why it's a game of not quitting. Because you gotta be willing to do all of the things you don't want to do. You gotta be willing to do all of the stuff that's boring and grueling on the days no one's watching, nobody cares, nobody's there to help you, it's just you against you. And that's why I'm going to go back and say, if you can't haul yourself out of bed on those mornings on time, when you don't feel like it, you're not going to achieve your goals. Because you're not going to make the cold call that you need to because you're not going to feel like it. You're not going to say no to a deal that's a bad deal for you because you feel like you need it. Like, you're going to get your emotions...

• 21:49Mel Robbins?

  All jacked up and they're gonna run you over. And so when I say, "How did I build belief in myself?" I did it the only way I know how. It's in proving that I believed in myself and that I could keep my word to myself no matter how I felt. And that begins every morning when the alarm rings. It's a daily battle. Like even though I invented this thing, 5-4-3-2-1, to get you out of bed, I still have to use it. Like I think it's a mistake. Like every time you and I interview an expert that studies habits and they say, "Well, it's 21 days," or "It's 62 days," I'm like, "Baloney." That's only if you like it. Like, 'cause there are things that have never become a habit for me, Louis. Like, I hate unloading the dishwasher. I have to force myself to do it.

• 22:33Mel Robbins?

  I hate folding laundry. I have to force myself to do it. There are gonna be things in your life that you always hate doing. Do it anyway. And get over yourself. Because that's actually what's standing in the way of what you want.

• 22:51Mel Robbins?

  You know, it's easy to look at Louis or me and be like, "Oh, well, it's so easy and that and that." It's boring. You get up at 5:30 in the morning, you go to the gym, you then... I got her to the studio. We had our first meeting at 7:40. Where's Cameron? Is Cameron still here? Cameron. There she is, one of our senior producers, right there for the Mel Robbins podcast. Yeah! Cameron was there, 7:45. She'll tell you I'm just as cranky at that point. You're like, "Run this thing." I was there till 8:30 tonight. Will be back up tomorrow at 5:40 in the morn... Like, this is what it looks like. And so for me, how you believe in yourself is that if you can get out of bed enough days in a row, and all you need, in my opinion, is 70%. I'll even give you 60%.

• 23:36Mel Robbins?

  If you can get 51%, like, let's shoot low, everybody. If you can get out of bed more days than not, when you don't feel like it, you're proving to yourself that you can rely on yourself to be bigger than the emotions in the moment. And that's what you need in life to keep going. And so it didn't come overnight. It came over time. Yep. And there are plenty of times where you're not gonna believe in yourself. And... That's when I use those tools that I shared, which are saying like, I refuse to believe that things end here. And then that's when I remind myself, everything that has been really awful, or good, or anything

• 24:21Mel Robbins?

  has led me here, which means this awful thing is actually going to leave me there.

• 24:29Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 24:30Mel Robbins?

  And, you know, the other thing that I have recently started to think a lot about, I really feel like there are only two things that hold people back. And I'm not talking about the big external factors, because there are very real factors that limit what's possible for you to achieve in a day. And I think it's very important to say that. Like, the amount that I can get done in a 24-hour window today is very different than what I could get done 14 years ago, when I had three kids who are home, and I can't pay my bills, and I have no help. And so, don't be beating yourself up when you see that quote, like, "Yeah, everybody's got the same 24 hours."

• 25:15Mel Robbins?

  No, we don't. That is a lie. But you can do a lot with the time that you have. And one of the things, though, that I think I've come to believe is that there's only two things that are actually stopping you from getting the results that you want over time. And what keeps people, I think, from really achieving what you're capable of are two things. The first one is discouragement. I think this is the single biggest obstacle.

• 25:46Lewis Howes?

  Discouraging yourself?

• 25:48Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, just pure discouragement. Because, you know, let's just, let's just, like, admit to ourselves, we live in this crazy, amazing moment of time, where you could never, ever, ever say with a straight face, or use an excuse, "I don't know how." Go to ChatGTP.

• 26:05Lewis Howes?

  Go to Google.

• 26:06Mel Robbins?

  No, I'm not kidding. I'm not kidding. Literally, go to ChatGTP and say, "Act like the world's best life coach or business consultant. Here's the thing I want to create. Give me a 60-day plan. Tell me what to do every day for 15 minutes that will actually create that." You will, your jaw will hit the floor. And we literally had this thing happen with our podcast where we were having trouble with upload speeds in terms of getting files thing. And the team's been working on it, working on it, and I finally said, will you just put our equipment in ChatGPT and ask it how to solve this? Honest to God, you guys, 30 seconds later, it spit out the answer. We've been struggling with this for a year. So, here's the thing, though. Information only makes you smart.

• 26:50Mel Robbins?

  It doesn't make you do it. And so you can be holding the answer in your hand. You can read Lewis's book, which is fantastic, and you can learn everything that you need to know in terms of the blueprint. But if you are discouraged, you won't do it because you will believe it's not going to work for you.

• 27:13Lewis Howes?

  So how do we overcome discouragement?

• 27:14Mel Robbins?

  That's a great question. I don't know.

• 27:16Lewis Howes?

  But that's the first thing. You said there's two things. Discouragement. And what do you think are some ways that can help us get out of that? Obviously, your method, 5-4-3-2-1, gets you moving.

• 27:30Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 27:31Lewis Howes?

  But even if you're moving, you could still be doubting or discouraging yourself.

• 27:34Mel Robbins?

  Yes. Well, so the thing about using 5-4-3-2-1 to push through is I felt so discouraged. That's why I wasn't getting out of bed back then. Because I believed there was nothing I could do to get out of the financial mess that we were in. I believed that getting out of bed, or looking for a job, or laying off the drinking, or not screaming at my husband, why would I do it? Like, it's not going to work. It's not going to matter. And if you can get, if you get yourself in that rut, it's not going to matter, then why would you do it? And so, the interesting thing about that moment in my, in time is that I don't know

• 28:13Mel Robbins?

  that anybody could have necessarily gotten through to me because I was so convinced. And you know how you can get so right about how stuck you are?

• 28:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, very righteous.

• 28:24Mel Robbins?

  Yes, yeah. It's kind of a way to stay in control, as weird as that is. And so, I believe that the best way, for me, anyway, was simply that countdown thing, 5-4-3-2-1, move. And what happened for me is that the action...

• 28:45Mel Robbins?

  Started to prove that there were little things that didn't fix the big problems. But they at least shifted a small thing in me. And again, it doesn't change overnight, it changes over time. So that's one thing. I think the other thing that's really important, honestly, and you're actually already doing it, which is pay attention to input. If you feel discouraged in your life, listening to Lewis, being here on a Tuesday night where you know, you know, he's not going to come here and be like, y'all are losers and you're never going to achieve your stuff and this book is not for you because you're going to be broke. No, you knew you were going to get encouragement.

• 29:28Mel Robbins?

  And so seeking it out is a really important thing to do when you recognize you can't do it for yourself. And so you can catch that from other people and you're doing that. And so I think those are two things. And then there's another exercise that I love that I typically do around happiness. But I think you could do this in your life right now. Take out a piece of paper. This was something that, that I just stumbled upon with my daughter. I'm not sure I've told you this story.

• 29:58Lewis Howes?

  I'm not sure.

• 29:58Mel Robbins?

  I don't know. Okay, we'll see.

• 29:59Lewis Howes?

  We'll see.

• 30:00Mel Robbins?

  We'll see. We share a lot, so I don't know. Our daughter, after college, graduated completely just depressed.

• 30:09Lewis Howes?

  Which one?

• 30:10Mel Robbins?

  Sawyer.

• 30:10Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 30:11Mel Robbins?

  The one that I wrote the book with. Yeah, okay. So she, she graduates from college, completely depressed.

• 30:16Lewis Howes?

  Why is she depressed?

• 30:17Mel Robbins?

  Oh my God, because COVID had blown up two years of, of college. You know, and when you're all disappointed because you feel like you missed out on graduation and you missed out on senior year and you missed out on this and she had put on weight and she had been drinking too much and all of a sudden the friends have scattered and she is home and she's going to a job in cybersecurity, which she was not excited about. And so she was just like bummed.

• 30:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 30:46Mel Robbins?

  And so she had this breakdown, she was crying like crazy, and when she was finally done crying.

• 30:53Mel Robbins?

  We sat down and I said, here's what I, I said, well, what do you, what do you think is gonna make you happy? She's like, I don't know, I don't know what's gonna make me happy.

• 31:04Mel Robbins?

  And I'm like, okay, here's the thing, hon, I think you do. Take out a piece of paper. And you can do this at any moment in your life. It's the greatest exercise. Draw a line down the center.

• 31:15Mel Robbins?

  On the, I want you to now think about a moment in your life where you just felt happier. You don't even have to be like, this is the happiest moment. When were you happier? When did you feel a little bit better? And the first thing that popped out of her mouth was, senior year in high school. And first thought of mine was, well, that's kinda sad, cuz that was like, four years ago, but okay. Didn't say that. Cuz you don't wanna, you know, hit somebody when they're down. So, I said, great. I want you to describe a day in the life. What time did you get up? What did you eat for breakfast? What did you do during the day? Who did you see? What'd you do after? And she said, I, you know, got up at 6:30. I ate breakfast. I went off to school. I was with my friends all day.

• 31:59Mel Robbins?

  You know, we then hung out because we had lacrosse practice. I was dating somebody. You know, I would party on the weekends. I was looking forward to going to college. I'm like, great, okay, that, that looks like, I can see why you felt better. All right, let's describe your life now. Sleep till 1. I wake up hungover. I don't know what to do all day. I feel terrible. I'm outta shape. I'm not exercising. I don't see my friends. I'm not looking forward, everything. I'm like, okay. Compare. Your life provides a map to the things that actually make you feel good. Yes. You just forgot. And so if you do that exercise, what you are going to see is a roadmap

• 32:43Mel Robbins?

  for what you have done at times in your life that actually make you feel like you and make you, like, lift you up. And I don't remember who said this, it might've been you. I once heard somebody say that if you ever feel stuck and you don't know what to do, the single most important project to take on is yourself.

• 33:03Mel Robbins?

  And taking on improving yourself...

• 33:07Mel Robbins?

  Whether that's your health,

• 33:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:08Mel Robbins?

  Or whether that's learning something new, or whether that's finally facing your finances, or whether that's to claw back more time on the weekends and take on a project that you've been pushing aside, whether it's launching your YouTube channel or figuring out affiliate marketing or starting a podcast or getting your real estate license or going back to school. When you take on yourself as a project, you now create a sense of direction that gives your life meaning. And that's always gonna lift you up.

• 33:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 33:38Mel Robbins?

  So I think that's how you do it.

• 33:42Lewis Howes?

  Can you think of a time where you were accomplishing a lot of things and outwardly had a lot of success? Or things looked good? Or you were building something? And people were acknowledging you for it, but you didn't feel good about you?

• 33:56Mel Robbins?

  You mean like my twenties, my thirties, my forties, and a lot of my fifties?

• 34:00Lewis Howes?

  Is there like a season, like a six-month or one-year season where you're like, "Man, it looked like everything was really great, or my business was blowing up," or this, or people were saying, "You're incredible, but I didn't feel good"?

• 34:12Mel Robbins?

  I think a lot of my life has felt like that.

• 34:13Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 34:14Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, how mu... Don't you guys feel like that a lot?

• 34:16Lewis Howes?

  Even when you're successful?

• 34:17Mel Robbins?

  Yes. Yes. Because if you have not worked out yourself and your relationship with yourself, it does not matter what's happening on the outside. That's like the clothes you wear. That's what everybody sees. If you hate yourself, if you still are beating yourself up for the mistakes that you made, if you're holding that over your head like ransom for your happiness, success does not make you happy. Like, I started too late. Thank God I did, but I started too late in earnest looking at my relationship with myself.

• 35:00Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 35:00Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, I think everybody... Like, you know, I think that we all make the mistake, and there's a lot, you know, psychiatrists and psychologists and incredible researchers out there that... Talk about this, this is not my field of expertise, but I have lived it in terms of hating myself and holding past mistakes over my head and feeling like I'm a bad person. And so many of us chase achievement and tell ourselves that if we just get a million followers, if we just have a million dollars in the bank, if we just drive the right car, if we just have the right clothes, if we're just in the right friend group, then those things on the outside somehow repair the things on the inside. Those are just the things you're doing.

• 35:43Mel Robbins?

  How you're feeling about yourself is the game. And the faster you can dedicate time and energy to looking at who you are and what you can learn from the mistakes that you've made and how you forgive yourself for the things that you did that hurt other people and the things that you've done to yourself that hurt you, so that you can step fully into the next chapter of your life feeling like you've got your arm around your own shoulder. Like, that is the greatest gift you could ever give to yourself.

• 36:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 36:21Mel Robbins?

  For real.

• 36:22Lewis Howes?

  Absolutely.

• 36:23Mel Robbins?

  And I also think, back to your question, it's one of the reasons why I am humbled profoundly by what is happening in my career right now. But I'm very clear, this is a job. My identity is not the podcast for this book, full stop. And it wasn't until I could get good with myself and the kind of person that I am and forgiving myself for the mistakes that I've made in the past, instead of just constantly, relentlessly beating myself up over regrets and like waking up every day and feeling like I've done something wrong and trying to prove that I... It wasn't until I got to the point that I was good with myself, that you have this

• 37:04Mel Robbins?

  very detached experience about the things that happen out there. It's great, it's a measure of like the impact that you make, but it doesn't change anything about how I feel about myself. And I never, ever, ever even knew that it was possible to be good with yourself. That's how much I trash myself.

• 37:26Lewis Howes?

  Wow. When did you start to like take that on, that journey for yourself where you said, "I'm good with me, no matter what happens in career, or numbers, or money"?

• 37:37Mel Robbins?

  Um, I think that... I didn't realize that I had actually achieved this breakthrough for myself until the success of this project and I just completely felt detached from how successful this thing was.

• 37:54Lewis Howes?

  So in the last few months?

• 37:55Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and I've been working very, very, very hard to look at the stuff that went down in childhood, the things that I did that were crazy unhealthy coping mechanisms in especially my late teens and my twenties and, you know, even into my early 30s.

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  What were some of those?

• 38:17Mel Robbins?

  Oh, God, how long do we have? I was like 23. I mean, everything, everything from the drugs to the drinking to the stealing to cheating on people to, uh, like, like I literally will bump into old boyfriends and be like, oh, my God, I'm so sorry you met me. Like, when I didn't realize I had childhood trauma and I'd been the victim of this and, you know, I'd repressed all these memories and instead I had a form of ADHD that was not diagnosed. It was the type that makes you like really impulsive and you have really low dopamine. And so like you literally are seeking thrill-seeking behaviors like, you know, shoplifting or, you know, cheating on nice guys and, oh, my God, I'm really sorry. And they're like, ah, great to see you too.

• 38:53Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow. And you used to beat yourself up a lot.

• 38:56Mel Robbins?

  Daily.

• 38:57Lewis Howes?

  Every day.

• 38:58Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my God, I mean, am I the only one that would literally you send a text? You're like, oh, my God, Louis did not text back. Is Louis mad at me? Like, I have not heard from Louis in a day. Is something going on with Louis? Like, I must have done something wrong. And so I, and, and I now know because I've spent enough time, just like you have and like you do because you listen to Louis, I, hearing from experts and going, oh, wait a minute. Hold on a second. Why is my default thought that I've done something wrong?

• 39:30Mel Robbins?

  Why am I so hard on myself? Why am I so busy that I cannot actually sit still?

• 39:41Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 39:42Mel Robbins?

  And, and you know, I didn't even realize you guys how, and, and it's a double edged sword because you know, if you're going to be an entrepreneur and successful in business, you know, you gotta have a drive. You know that you're signing up for 80 hour weeks. You know that there is going to be amount of go, go, go that is part of the job and the demand of actually going after something big. That's just what you're signing up for. But what I started to realize, and I don't know if any of you have had this epiphany, but you certainly have, I've noticed, that I actually was busy as a default.

• 40:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 40:17Mel Robbins?

  And I didn't realize this until the pandemic hit and there's nowhere to go. And then all of a sudden you get all fidgety because you can't run to Target or you can't run to the coffee shop or you can't run to see your friends or you can't run over here. And I started to, and then I, we moved to Vermont and I'm like, oh my God, there are no P, there's nowhere to go. And you know, my skin is crawling and I started to realize that my resting state was go, go, go, go, go, go.

• 40:44Lewis Howes?

  And that sounds exhausting.

• 40:45Mel Robbins?

  It was exhausting. I think most, and actually the research now shows, this comes from Dr. Aditi Nerikar over at Harvard's Beth Israel Dekada, she runs their massive stress management clinic. Her research shows that 83% of people are actually living in a state of chronic fight or flight.

• 41:04Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 41:05Mel Robbins?

  Meaning your amygdala is going. So if you're, if you are procrastinating more than ever, if you feel on edge, if you feel more irritable, if you are struggling to focus more than ever, the issue is that your stress response is running you. And that was me. And if I go back through my history, I had an incident happen in fourth grade where I woke up and I was, we were in a big family, like ski trip thing with a bunch of other families and I woke up, I was sound asleep, so a moment when you're safe and resting, and I woke up to an older kid on top of me.

• 41:38Lewis Howes?

  Ooh.

• 41:39Mel Robbins?

  And I rolled over and...

• 41:44Mel Robbins?

  I don't remember what happened next. And then, the next morning, I woke up and I had the sheets over me and my immediate, because I'm in like my 10-year-old body, I immediately sensed something's wrong. And then, part of the human wiring when you're little, and I didn't know any of this stuff, you guys, till I'm like in my 40s. That the human design is such that when you're a little kid, you don't have something, this is from Dr. Paul Conti at Stanford, who is one of the world's leading experts on trauma. I always thought trauma was like, you've been to war, you've been the victim of violent crime, like something wildly horrific had happened to you. It was a whole new thing for me to understand that trauma is any experience that actually

• 42:28Mel Robbins?

  is remembered in the body in an alarm state. It gets recorded in your nervous system. So, this happens to me. I wake up at 10 years old. My first experience is something bad's happened, and then because you're little, you develop mentally, do not have something called attribution. Attribution is a human being's availability, or a human being's ability, to look outside yourself and attribute what you're feeling to somebody else. So, little kids, I think this is one of the cruelest things about the human design. Little kids do not have attribution. So, when your mom and dad came home, and some people have that experience where you hear a car pull up on the gravel driveway, and you freeze a little?

• 43:11Lewis Howes?

  Or you get excited.

• 43:12Mel Robbins?

  Well, yeah, that's a positive one. Yeah, but if you freeze a little.

• 43:15Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 43:16Mel Robbins?

  That's because when some people came home when you were little, you know what happened. And so, if you still do that, or if you hear a crack of a beer can open and something like somewhere just makes you tense, that is what I'm talking about. So, I, of course, didn't go, "That kid's the problem." I did, I did, I am. And, do you know, I suppressed that memory, I don't know why. And I recalled it in my early 30s, and then I didn't know what to do with it, and I was too embarrassed to talk about it. And then I started to learn more about this in my 40s, and it suddenly made sense. Oh, my God, no wonder I wake up every morning. And I think...

• 44:01Mel Robbins?

  I've done something wrong, or something's wrong. Because this is what my body's been doing since I was 10 years old. This is a stored memory. And if you grew up in a chaotic household, or you grew up with parents where you didn't know what mood people were gonna be in, and so you kind of wake up. This is one of the most common experiences that people have that you don't realize it's actually tied to what it was like to be a kid.

• 44:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 44:22Mel Robbins?

  So that was kind of the beginning of all this unwinding.

• 44:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 44:25Mel Robbins?

  And just really going deep and going, I don't want to frickin' live like this. And I could have a choice? There are things I could do to just make my body settle?

• 44:36Lewis Howes?

  Right. So before you share how you did that, how you started settling it, I don't know if you guys are hearing a theme tonight, but I talked about memories and the meaning we give our memories, create a belief within us that we hold on to until, and that belief influences our behaviors, and we consistently show up that way until we're able to reflect and take a step back and say, why am I doing these things? What's causing me to react this way? Why am I responding this way? Why do I tense up in these situations? And so you started to reflect on that.

• 45:08Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 45:08Lewis Howes?

  And what helped you start to heal, process, let go of, and integrate feeling emotionally safe within you again, whenever you used to feel like you were doing something wrong?

• 45:20Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 45:21Lewis Howes?

  And now you can feel more safe within you, no matter what is happening around you?

• 45:26Mel Robbins?

  It's a great question. So for me, because you talked about memory and story and that stuff, it goes a layer deeper. Because I think, and I know you're incorporating this with memory, but for me, it was important to have this epiphany moment where like, oh my God, this is about the sensations of my body.

• 45:41Lewis Howes?

  Your nervous system.

• 45:42Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 45:42Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 45:43Mel Robbins?

  Like, it's about that kind of, am I actually calm? Or does my body feel like I am a car at a stoplight and I'm revving the gas?

• 45:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 45:54Mel Robbins?

  And that was what it felt like to be me all the time.

• 45:58Lewis Howes?

  24/7.

• 45:59Mel Robbins?

  24/7. And so there's a million things you can do. I mean, and I think what's really exciting about it is, what's, you know what kind of sad and exciting?

• 46:11Mel Robbins?

  To think I lived for so long like that.

• 46:17Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 46:18Mel Robbins?

  Because I didn't know. And it didn't take a long time for my body to learn a different way.

• 46:27Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 46:28Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 46:29Lewis Howes?

  But what was the awareness that you had and the process you used personally to start to feel more safe?

• 46:34Mel Robbins?

  Okay, well, so the first awareness that you need is to go, I don't want my life to feel like this anymore.

• 46:39Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 46:39Mel Robbins?

  That's all you need.

• 46:40Lewis Howes?

  Making a decision.

• 46:41Mel Robbins?

  Yes. You need to say, I don't want my life to feel like this. And you could insert, I don't want my job to feel like this. I don't want my body to feel like this when I wake up. I don't want my relationships to feel like this. I don't want my stress. Like, you can just literally saying, the way that my life is right now, no longer works for me. That's all you need to do. And then I would write out, what exactly is it? And for me, it was like, I hate waking up and feeling a sense of dread. And then it was like, I hate feeling on edge all the time. And then it was, you know, like, there were just a lot of things. And so when I started to learn about the fact that a lot of this is driven by your nervous system,

• 47:25Mel Robbins?

  there are so many things you can do to program your nervous system. And what works for me, and the good news is, there's not one thing that works for everybody.

• 47:34Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 47:34Mel Robbins?

  And what I love about having multiple things that you can do is that there are going to be different days where different things work. And so if you just think about it, like, here's how I think about it, because I like metaphors, I like visual stuff, it really helps me, like, think about this. So I think about your nervous system, like, there's like electrical wires all through this building that we can't see, right? And the lights are turned on. And I think about those moments when... My body starts to do one of these and I go on edge, or I feel myself getting a little too ramped up about something. So you know, you're not an idiot. You know when you're calm and when you're present. You also know when you're like super stressed out

• 48:18Mel Robbins?

  or you're starting to feel that the engine is revving. The way that I think about it is when my fight or flight engine revving nervous system goes, the lights are blinking.

• 48:28Lewis Howes?

  They're blinking?

• 48:28Mel Robbins?

  Oh, yeah. Because you feel it, it's like this. And so what does that mean? It means there's like some kink in the wire somewhere in my nervous system. Who knows if it's from the kid when I was in fourth grade or something that I don't remember that one of, you know, who knows where it came from? I just know that it's happening. So now it's my job to find the switch. Because if I turn the switch off on a light that's blinking, you know how when you lower dimmer on a blinking light, it's not so annoying anymore? All of a sudden, it's a little calm? That switch is the vagus nerve. Vagus nerve runs from your seat, through your major organs, through your vocal cord, all the way to the top of your head. This is the on off switch for your nervous system. It's how you switch between the blinking light

• 49:12Mel Robbins?

  to turn it down a little bit and now everything's steady. And there's a bazillion things you can do. You can hum. Like you can't have a panic attack in church because as you're singing a hymn and your vocal cords are vibrating, it's actually what they call toning the vagus nerve. Cold plunging is a way to tone the vagus nerve. And cold plunging also works because you are putting yourself in a setting, whether you're in the shower or the bathtub or the ice bath, where all of a sudden the lights start to blink. You get in that cold water, it's like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God. And then as you breathe, you're hitting that dimmer switch and you're bringing it down. Meditation, another way that you can do it. There are so many, like just go to ChatGPT

• 49:55Mel Robbins?

  and say, I would like, act like the world's best psychologist and tell me what to do twice a day to tone the vagus nerve and actually calm my nervous system. And there you'll have the answer. And then you're going, oh, that's not going to work for me. I'm not going to do it because I'm discouraged. And then you're now going to use 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. I'm gonna do it.

• 50:19Lewis Howes?

  I don't know if anyone here has ever done this. I don't know if you've ever done this where you felt the blinking, you felt the stress, and you've tried to get someone else to stop what they're doing to cause that stress within you.

• 50:32Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 50:32Lewis Howes?

  I don't know.

• 50:33Mel Robbins?

  It's called marriage.

• 50:34Lewis Howes?

  It's called marriage.

• 50:35Mel Robbins?

  Parenting, work.

• 50:39Lewis Howes?

  Watch what you say, though, you know?

• 50:42Mel Robbins?

  You know, yeah, you mean like all the emails you, have you ever seen those emails like, "Tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip, tip"? They're like, "Best. Send!", you know what I mean? Like when you do that?

• 50:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. But I mean, when you try to, when you try to control or stop someone else from doing something that's causing you to react stressed out.

• 50:59Mel Robbins?

  Oh, yeah.

• 51:00Lewis Howes?

  And trying to control everything in your environment except for managing yourself.

• 51:06Mel Robbins?

  Yes. Have you heard something called the "let them" theory?

• 51:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Is that something you used to do, though?

• 51:11Mel Robbins?

  Do I, yes, of course. Well, because other people are annoying, and they stress you out, and they worry you. And so, this is the problem. We all have a fundamental need for control, right? It makes you feel safe. I need to feel in control of, like, even, even, like Louis, I'll give you an example. You ready?

• 51:31Lewis Howes?

  Oh.

• 51:33Mel Robbins?

  Give you an example. Okay? Like, so Louis, like, comes back, as you guys were sharing.

• 51:37Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:38Mel Robbins?

  "Five minutes, five minutes, five minutes."

• 51:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I said, "You got five more minutes? Are you good?"

• 51:41Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, like, "I'm great, I'm great." And so, literally, like, 11 minutes go by.

• 51:45Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah, and she's like.

• 51:46Mel Robbins?

  Right? And now I can't control him.

• 51:47Lewis Howes?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 51:48Mel Robbins?

  And I'm starting to feel it. So I'm like, "Okay, should I send it?" And I'm like, "Let him, let him." I'm standing backstage, and I'm now starting to get, like, "Okay, what's happening? How, I can't control what's happening out here. So let him do that. And let me just stand back here and take a deep breath and be so proud of my friend."

• 52:08Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:08Mel Robbins?

  Who is here in Boston, in the town where we raised our kids, with all of you amazing people. And, but how many times have you

• 52:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 52:18Mel Robbins?

  felt yourself getting stressed in the grocery store line, or stressed on the Mass Pike? I mean, how irritating is that? When they close the tunnel? What idiots are painting? Like, the tunnel on a money, "Let them", right, right? So, yes. See, what happens is when other people's behavior is annoying, or bothers you, or stresses you out, or upsets you. It makes you feel out of control.

• 52:45Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 52:45Mel Robbins?

  Nothing makes me feel more out of control than when I need a red eye from Dunkin' Donuts and the line is really long in the morning, you know what I'm saying? And so I just, you tend to then make this mistake when other people are upsetting you of controlling what they're doing.

• 53:06Lewis Howes?

  And that's something you did for a long time?

• 53:08Mel Robbins?

  My whole life. I still do it. That's why I need the let them theory, to stop myself from doing it. We all do it because we have a need to be in control and other people's behavior often makes you feel out of control. I mean, have you ever, like, if I think back to some of my, like, relationships before I met Chris, like, when somebody breaks up with you and then you're the loser that's trying to, like, control what happened, bring them back and, like, hang around and make yourself better looking so that they'll take you back, like, that's a form of control.

• 53:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 53:42Mel Robbins?

  Right? Because you're trying to take away the pain by making them do something.

• 53:45Lewis Howes?

  Mmm.

• 53:46Mel Robbins?

  And it took me a very long time. I'm clearly a slow learner about these life lessons.

• 53:51Lewis Howes?

  Me too. So, because that seems like something that was holding you back for most of your life, this idea of trying to control other people and stuff like that.

• 53:59Mel Robbins?

  Of course. Everybody is held back by that.

• 54:00Lewis Howes?

  Or control the environment or whatever it might be. And so when was the exact moment? Because I've heard you say it a bunch of times, but for people who haven't heard it, when was the exact moment, this epiphany of, I'm gonna let people be themselves and not try to control every situation?

• 54:14Mel Robbins?

  Well, my mother will tell you, she's been telling me to do this my entire life.

• 54:17Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 54:18Mel Robbins?

  And she even has a pillow. She's like, I came up with the let me part. It's this pillow where she's like, pull up your big girl panties and deal with it. You know, the joke about this whole thing is, you and I both created content, like, stop caring about what people think. You know, the concepts have been out there forever. But I'll tell you something. The time that it hit me, like a freaking sledgehammer.

• 54:41Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Mel Robbins?

  Because you can talk about stuff all you want. You can read concepts all you want. Like, do you know how many books I've read about Soicism?

• 54:48Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 54:49Mel Robbins?

  My husband is a Buddhist. I can't let anything go, for God's sakes.

• 54:55Mel Robbins?

  Like, I understand these, I've read Viktor Frankl's Man, Search, or Meaning is one of my favorite books of all time. Like, that what's happening out there doesn't have to control what's happening in here, that your power is in your attitude and your response to things. They're not new ideas. I've even talked about these. I've interviewed experts on these things. When it hit me, like a ton of bricks, you know, when you're ready, the teacher appears. I don't know who said, "When the student is ready, the teacher appears," and you better be careful, because it's gonna be really annoying who shows up. And who showed up for me, and there's such irony to this, is because this was at my, when it, the power of this hit me at my son's high school prom.

• 55:36Mel Robbins?

  Because I was a micromanaging freak. Have any of you ever sent anybody to a prom, or had a mother who controlled you at your prom, right? So, I just was like, all upset about things, and like, "Okay, you gotta bring a corsage, she doesn't want a corsage. I know better, you've never been to a prom, you need to bring a corsage." We get to the, the pre-photo party, and we take the photos, and then all of a sudden, it starts to rain. And all these kids are like, "Well, we think we're gonna go in the rain," I'm like, "You're not going in the rain, look at these new fancy sneakers that you got," and like, what are you? And they're like, "We're gonna go to this taco," "You're going to a taco bar? Your tux is gonna get wet, your sneakers are gonna..." And my daughter was home, and here's the irony of this, you ready?

• 56:15Mel Robbins?

  When my daughter's prom happened, she was such a raging, controlling, dare I say, entitled piece of work.

• 56:33Mel Robbins?

  That we had a knock-down argument at a hair salon in Natick.

• 56:41Lewis Howes?

  The day of?

• 56:41Mel Robbins?

  The day of the prom, oh yeah, because we had this freetan and the nails and the whole thing, and she got her hair done, I mean, it's like a thousand, I can't say, dollars.

• 56:52Mel Robbins?

  And she doesn't like the way the women did the makeup.

• 56:57Mel Robbins?

  I lost my mind, Louis. Screaming at her. I stormed out of the salon. Your father's gonna have to drive. You better call. And I left.

• 57:12Mel Robbins?

  Yes. Uh huh. And her father had to go get her.

• 57:15Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 57:15Mel Robbins?

  Yes. And he had to pay for this stuff. Because I was so angry at how much of an attitude she had. I'm like, this is a prom. It's not like, like, come on. You're not on the cover of Vanity Fair.

• 57:28Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 57:28Mel Robbins?

  You're going to a public high school prom. But I'm the idiot paying for this stuff. So of course, I'm, so anyway, it's a whole story. Anyway, okay, so.

• 57:39Lewis Howes?

  This is the irony.

• 57:40Mel Robbins?

  This is the irony. So guess who the teacher is in this story? That daughter. Because she's home and I'm starting to like go like, you can't go out in the sneakers and this, that and the other. My husband's standing there. My mother-in-law is there. My son is there. He's like kind of inching away from me. And my daughter reaches over and grabs me. And she has like fake nails so it like goes in the bicep, which basically, I think snaps me out of like the ha and into the moment. And the nail, and she's like, Mom, you're being annoying. You know, if they want to go outside, let them. If they want to go see it, let them. It can just, it's like this cascade of let them, let them, let them, let them, let them. And then she's like, it's their prom, not yours. Let them do what they want.

• 58:25Mel Robbins?

  And then she like released the nails.

• 58:30Mel Robbins?

  And Louis, honest to God, I, all I said to myself was like, why the hell do I care about this?

• 58:41Mel Robbins?

  And it's not like at that point, I'm like, I'm gonna write a book. That's not what, that's not what happened. And so I literally just started to say those words. I'm at Home Depot. You ever been at Home Depot in the garden center on a nice weekend? And they got one cash register open and you got the flatbed and there's like five things in front of you and it's like beep, beep, beep. Anybody got a price on these impatience? You're like, "Oh my God, they're a dollar ninety-nine." "God, I gotta get to Dunkin' Donuts, I'm ready to kill somebody." Right? And so, you feel the volcano, and I'm just like, "Okay, Mel, let them." And that was how it started.

• 59:26Mel Robbins?

  That's how it started. And, you know, then we did a podcast episode about it as I started to use it and, you know, it started to go, I just like, it became a thing. And then as the podcast episode took off, people started writing articles about it and sending in tattoos. And the last time I had seen anything with tattoos was the five-second rule. Because I've received ten thousand tattoos with five, four, three, two, one to rockets. And so, I just was like, "Wow." And, you know, the truth is, I don't like to write books. I'm dyslexic. I have ADHD. I, I, I thought, "Okay, well, this is like one of those little books. This is like a book, like a graduation speech book." Like, you know the books that you read on the toilet? That are like, you swit, like you buy them at like Urban Outfitters or something?

• 1:00:10Mel Robbins?

  You know what I'm saying? Like, maybe we could do one of those. And then we just started digging it, and it was so deep and rich and the stoicism and the themes. Like, when we, when I went on the, it was, what's been so incredible about this experience is that I feel like your grandparents and all of our ancestors are part of this. Like, when I sat with Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s son, Martin, and his wife, Andrea, as we were talking about this on their podcast, the My Legacy Podcast, he literally looked at me and said, "Mel, this is my father's teaching."

• 1:00:48Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 1:00:49Mel Robbins?

  You know, because no response doesn't mean you're giving in.

• 1:00:57Mel Robbins?

  Choosing peace is not surrender. Choosing peace is a form of power and hope.

• 1:01:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's true.

• 1:01:04Mel Robbins?

  And so to see this reflected back in the ways that you make it your own, whether it's the shirts that you're making, or it's the let them for realtors, let them for parents, let them for entrepreneurs. Because if you're gonna build a business, you gotta learn to let people not do business with you. You gotta learn to let people not understand what you're doing. You gotta learn to let your family have their opinions. And you gotta let me stay focused on the simple things you are not doing right now that you know you need to do that will actually create everything that you want. And you know, the fact is, and this brings me to the second thing. After, I know there's like 55 things, I'm sorry. Take away, take away.

• 1:01:46Mel Robbins?

  Is that I said that the two obstacles, only two that you have. One is when you're discouraged.

• 1:01:52Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 1:01:53Mel Robbins?

  The second is when you doubt your capability. And the only reason why I think you doubt your capability is because you're too concerned about what other people are gonna think about it. That's the biggest source of your doubt. And you don't even realize it.

• 1:02:10Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:10Mel Robbins?

  Because you stop, when you hesitate, and the only thing you're considering is how other people are gonna react. Or what their mood's gonna be, or what their expectations are. And so when you recognize, wow, I could go to ChatGPT. Write my business plan, and give me the plan, and it can tell me day by day what to do. Every day this year to lead to a certain result. That it is right there. And now all I have to do is, I gotta let other people do what they're gonna do, and then I gotta let me remind myself every morning when I wake up, even when I don't feel like it. Damn it, I'm gonna do it. Because that's how I create the things that I want in my life.

• 1:02:48Lewis Howes?

  There you go, I love that. I got one final question, and I asked everyone to do this when you weren't here yet, I don't think. And the question is, what are a couple of things you're most grateful for today?

• 1:03:00Mel Robbins?

  Oh, well, today I'm grateful for you.

• 1:03:02Lewis Howes?

  Grateful for you.

• 1:03:03Mel Robbins?

  Grateful for you.

• 1:03:04Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Mel Robbins?

  Grateful for you. Louis is a great friend. You know, one thing that I will tell you about, about like really good friends. Like you would look at Louis and I, and you would think we're competitors, right? Because we're in the same industry. Like, one of the greatest things about Louis is he is like the world's greatest supporter. And the mistake that everybody makes, I learned this too late as well, and I'm so grateful that I know this now. You might be surprised to know that so many of us that have podcasts are actually really great friends. And, you know, but it's not, of course.

• 1:03:33Lewis Howes?

  Not all of them. Not everyone.

• 1:03:36Mel Robbins?

  Not every, but, but, but, but so, but so, the thing, the thing that's important, though. I think it was on Jay's podcast, was it Selena Gomez that said this?

• 1:03:44Lewis Howes?

  What'd she say? I didn't...

• 1:03:46Mel Robbins?

  I, it, well, I think, I think that's who he said, I just, you know, I, I think that this is who, like, when he shared this sentiment, because I'm like, Jay, you're right. He said, "The mistake that people make is you actually think the other people that own restaurants, or who are in real estate, or other entrepreneurs, that you're competing against them.

• 1:04:04Mel Robbins?

  Actually, they should be your best friends, and here's why.

• 1:04:09Mel Robbins?

  Because your family has no idea what you're going through. Chris, Martha, that they have no, well, Martha has a podcast, so she, and she's also got a huge career, and is kind of in an adjacent space, but even still. Like, my husband, Martha, doesn't understand the day-to-day pressures, because they're not doing what we're doing. And the mistake that you make is you think you're the only one, and then you think your friends and your family understand, and they're never gonna understand. It's the people that you think you're competing against who will actually be your greatest allies, and your biggest forms of support in the business that you're building.

• 1:04:44Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:44Mel Robbins?

  So, seek them out, cheer for them when you see them winning. There's a reason why you see restaurants kind of on the same blocks. It's because when they put them on the same blocks, they actually all do better.

• 1:04:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:56Mel Robbins?

  Because people that go to restaurants like going to other restaurants. And so, it's a mistake to think that if you're opening up a fitness club, that somehow the yoga studio down the street is somehow competitive. No, no, no, no, no, no. Because people get tired of yoga. And so, if you're cheering for those guys, and you show up at their grand opening, and you're shouting them out on social, guess what they do? They do the same thing for you. And so, please, seek out the people that are doing things that you admire. Cheer for them. Seek out people and support people that are doing the similar kinds of businesses, because you're going to find you have so much more in common. And people are more interested in helping you than you think.

• 1:05:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and this is something that we do. I mean, for the last three months, I've been texting you every couple of weeks. I'm like, "You're still here, you're still here, you're crushing it here, congrats." And it's just, you do the same for me, we do this with each other. And I think I learned early on that like, just competing isn't fun. It's like, maybe there's a little bit of thrill of like, "Oh, I'm beating someone." But it's not enjoyable long-term, and it's not sustainable. But collaboration is the key, again, to that abundance feeling. If you want to feel abundant, if you want to feel joyful, free, collaborate, don't compete. And I think that's been a key for me as well. So, if you guys haven't yet, make sure you go right now and get the Let Them Theory book. Make sure to subscribe to our podcast.

• 1:06:18Mel Robbins?

  No, you know why? Because it would be the coolest thing in the world to see one of my closest friends dethrone me and take the number one spot. So, please, take, buy Lewis's book. That would be the greatest thing in the world.

• 1:06:32Lewis Howes?

  It's gonna be hard to hit number one with her up there. I mean, your book is going crazy. But it's not about being number one. It's about doing the best you can and being of service.

• 1:06:39Mel Robbins?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:06:40Lewis Howes?

  And if it hits number one, cool. If it doesn't, that's okay too. It's all good. So, Pato, one day! No, I was gonna... Guys, make sure you guys get a copy of her book. Make sure, if you haven't, subscribe to her podcast. Make sure you subscribe right now, leave a review for the book and for the podcast. While you're at it, you can leave a review for my book and the podcast as well. And let's give it up one more time for the inspiring Mel Robbins! Yes! I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes

• 1:07:25Lewis Howes?

  with me personally, as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our greatness plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy, and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.