This Is Spinal Tap

What if Rob Reiner hadn’t directed ‘This Is Spinal Tap’? What if the classic 1984 rockumentary had never even existed? This week Chris and Lizzie go to eleven with a behind the scenes look at why no one wanted to finance Spinal Tap, how Tom Petty served as inspiration, and why it took 36 years and a $400M lawsuit for its creators to finally get paid. In honor of ‘Spinal Tap II: The End Continues’, join us on this journey behind the scenes with one of England’s loudest bands. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Chris Winterbauer?

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• 0:31Lizzie Bassett?

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• 1:15Lizzie Bassett?

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• 1:40Speaker 02

  Cut.

• 1:42Speaker 02

  Cut.

• 1:44Speaker 02

  Excuse me.

• 1:46Speaker 02

  Can we cut, please?

• 1:50Speaker 02

  No, this is ridiculous. This is ridiculous.

• 2:03Speaker 02

  Okay, and action.

• 2:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Hello, dear listeners, and welcome back to another episode of What Went Wrong, your favorite podcast, full stop, that just so happens to be about movies and how it's nearly impossible to make them, let alone a good one, let alone one that goes to 11. That's right, I am Chris Winterbauer, joined today by my intrepid co-host, one of the loudest podcasters, Lizzie Bassett. Lizzy, how are you doing this fine morning?

• 2:31Lizzie Bassett?

  I'm doing great. I could not be happier to talk about England's loudest band. We are, of course, talking about the 1984 classic, This Is Spinal Tap. And we are doing this in honor of a long-awaited sequel that is finally arriving in theaters, I believe, on September 12th, and that is Spinal Tap 2: The End Continues. But today, Chris, we're gonna talk about the very beginning of Spinal Tap, which is actually a pretty fun story. So had you, I'm sure you had, seen Spinal Tap before, but what was your feeling upon watching it and then upon re-watching it for the podcast?

• 3:07Chris Winterbauer?

  I had seen Spinal Tap. I went on a Christopher Guest spin in high school, more Best in Show, A Mighty Wind, you know, that stuff, but then Spinal Tap, This Is Spinal Tap is a precursor to those, was a part of it, did not appreciate the subtlety of the humor in This Is Spinal Tap.

• 3:25Lizzie Bassett?

  That was a common problem.

• 3:27Chris Winterbauer?

  So funny. It did, it never winks, and it just always plays the bit straight. I have forgotten how funny Michael McKean is. He and Christopher Guest together are so good. They are obviously musical, and that just goes so far in selling this movie, but so many great cameos. Billy Crystal as the mime caterer, Fran Drescher working for the record company, Bruno Kirby, I love showing up as the limo driver who, when he gets spurned, is like, this, this is a fad.

• 3:58Lizzie Bassett?

  He's great. And Begley Jr.

• 4:01Chris Winterbauer?

  No, where's Ed Begley Jr.?

• 4:03Lizzie Bassett?

  He's the first drummer they show in the like 1960s.

• 4:06Chris Winterbauer?

  The first Stumpy, the Stumpy Peeps, that's who he was. And then Stumpy Joe, who died on someone else's vomit. But they can't fingerprint for that.

• 4:14Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, can't dust for vomit, yes.

• 4:16Chris Winterbauer?

  It's very good. The songs are great. It feel, this is the musical, this is the music movie I wanted when we watched Bohemian Rhapsody.

• 4:22Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 4:23Chris Winterbauer?

  You know, like, give me one tour, give me one period of time. And I love the conceit of just the shows are getting smaller and smaller as they're going on.

• 4:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, this is the band's most intense point of turmoil, Chris. This is, this is tap at its lowest point.

• 4:39Chris Winterbauer?

  It is. And you know, like even how just things, you know, the Sabrina Carpenter album debacle, album cover debacle.

• 4:44Lizzie Bassett?

  I thought about that, yes.

• 4:45Chris Winterbauer?

  The smell the glove cover at the beginning.

• 4:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, if you don't know what Chris is referring to, you know, recently there was the sort of conversation around Sabrina Carpenter's album cover being, you know, it's her, I think, on her hands and knees with a guy holding her hair. And people saying like, it's, it's very anti feminist, it's, it's all this. And I don't know enough to comment on that, to be totally honest. But there is something in Spinal Tap that's exactly like it, which is that they have a woman, you know, tied up in a position on the album cover and they don't want to release it. And the whole thing is they're like, well, that guy did it. And, you know, he's tied up and they said, it's fine. They're like, yeah, but he's the victim. Like, it's okay if you are the victim on your album cover and they, like, they don't get it. It's great.

• 5:24Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. And I, I, one other thing, I don't know if this came up or not, but in your research, Rob, is Rob Reiner doing a John Millias impression? Because that's what it felt like, like with the beard and the military hat.

• 5:37Lizzie Bassett?

  It's someone else, which we will get to.

• 5:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Got it. Okay, that's what I was wondering. But no, I, I mean, this movie's a blast. I feel like it actually, even though it's a comedy, it gets at the heart of

• 5:50Lizzie Bassett?

  Totally.

• 5:50Chris Winterbauer?

  what it is to be a rocker in this time in a really honest way. And I'm excited to talk about it.

• 5:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, I think, as we'll see, they were extremely focused on authenticity and they also had some very real, very funny inspirations, which we're also going to get to see, hear and read during this episode, which I hope you enjoy as much as I do.

• 6:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Talk about bum cakes. My girl's got them.

• 6:12Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right. All right. So the basic info as always, this is directed by Rob Reiner. It's his feature directorial debut. Of course, he also stars in it as Marty DeBergy, documentarian extraordinaire. It is written-

• 6:27Chris Winterbauer?

  Totally straight, the whole movie. So funny.

• 6:31Lizzie Bassett?

  I know. I really, I love everyone in this. I do really love Rob Reiner as Marty DeBergy. So it is written by Christopher Guest, Michael McKean, Harry Shearer, and Rob Reiner. Although, as we'll see, there's not, there is writing. It is written by them. All the music is written by them, but it does not have a script. It stars Christopher Guest as Nigel Tufnell, Michael McKean as David St. Hubbins, Harry Shearer as Derek Smalls on the bass. As we said, Rob Reiner as Marty DeBergy, Fran Drescher as Bobby Fleckman, and many, many more. Lots of fun cameos in this before they were famous. Also, shout out to Fred Willard as the Army Air Force Base Lieutenant. He's great.

• 7:12Chris Winterbauer?

  Whoever plays Dennis Eaton-Hogg, which is my favorite name, Mr. Eaton-Hogg.

• 7:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Also wonderful, the British record exec. The IMDb logline is, as always, "Spinal Tap, one of England's loudest bands, is chronicled by film director Marty DeBergy on what proves to be a fateful tour." IMDb, I believe they are England's loudest band, not one of. You may have to take umbrage with that.

• 7:34Chris Winterbauer?

  No, it's-

• 7:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Really?

• 7:35Chris Winterbauer?

  I think it's one of. I wrote the quote down. "One of England's loudest bands." Yeah, it was one of the notes I took.

• 7:40Lizzie Bassett?

  Fine. IMDb, you're right, as always. So, the release date was March 2, 1984, and let's get into it. Now, Chris, the story of Spinal Tap begins with, you mentioned them, David St. Hubbins and Nigel Tufnell themselves, Michael McKean and Christopher Guest, and they go almost as far back as their characters do in the movie. They met at NYU, they bonded over a shared love for guitarist Michael Bloomfield, and then- As one does in college, immediately moved in together and started writing music. Now, Guest describes the songs they wrote as incredibly indulgent, and I want to read you a couple of the titles. Great. Traveling Clowns. Okay.

• 8:23Lizzie Bassett?

  Molly's Day at Home, Castle by the Sea, and my personal favorite, These Are My Children. Would love to hear them. Now, they did not, obviously, achieve success as musicians, but they did run into their fair share of shady music biz type characters. Guest actually told Rolling Stone, quote, "Michael and I were brought to an office on 8th Avenue by some gentleman of foreign descent who wanted to sign us to a record contract. The guy, who was called Vito the Snake, had a stack of peel-off contracts, the kind you can buy at a stationery store, 300 to a pad. He said, 'I want you guys to sign this thing, all right? And we'll do a record. We'll, uh, we thought we would be killed if we didn't sign it.'" Mm-hmm. Unfortunately, though, I don't think they did sign it.

• 9:07Lizzie Bassett?

  And Guest did go on to play in a band called Voltaire's Nose. He also played bluegrass in a band with Arlo Guthrie, which gets to your point, Chris. They are actually extremely talented musicians. And McKean was briefly part of a Baroque pop band called The Left Bank, who actually had some pretty big success with two hits, Walk Away Renee and Pretty Ballerina. But he's quick to point out, he did not join the band until after they had the success, and then they fell apart after rehearsing for three months, and he never performed with them.

• 9:38Lizzie Bassett?

  So around 1970, Michael McKean moved to LA, where he met Harry Shearer, who, of course, would go on to play bassist Derek Smalls, in a satirical comedy group called The Credibility Gap. And Shearer, he'd been working for a long time. I actually think he was a child and teenage actor on radio and TV. Guest stayed on the East Coast, did a lot of theater work. He broke out in a play called Moon Children, that eventually made its way to Broadway in the early 70s. And then, a year later, he joined the National Lampoon's Radio Hour. And he also performed in an off-Broadway show called National Lampoon's Lemmings alongside John Belushi, Chevy Chase, tons more. And he's doing a lot of rock parodies even in that.

• 10:19Lizzie Bassett?

  In 1976, McKean leaves the credibility gap and he landed the role of Lenny Koznowski on Laverne and Shirley, which was a huge break. Guest was also writing at this point. He won an Emmy for co-writing and starring in the Lily Tomlin special, but it was in 1977 that Christopher Guest appeared in a small role on an episode of a very popular sitcom. Chris, any guesses what the sitcom might be?

• 10:42Chris Winterbauer?

  1977. Is it like a Norman Lear show or something?

• 10:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 10:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay. I don't know. I'm not gonna get it.

• 10:51Lizzie Bassett?

  All in the Family. He appeared in an episode called Mike and Gloria Meat, which featured a flashback where Guest played Meathead's friend. And of course, Chris, you will get this one. Who played Meathead on All in the Family?

• 11:01Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, God. Uh, oh, I'm blanking. I'm blanking.

• 11:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Christopher Winterbauer.

• 11:06Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't remember.

• 11:06Lizzie Bassett?

  It's Rob Reiner.

• 11:08Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, I should announce that I'm officially starting a new band, Resident Idiot, and it's just a solo project. It's just me. I, Jesus Christ.

• 11:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay, I apologize. I thought certainly you would get those. That's payback for all the times I've never been able to answer your questions.

• 11:22Chris Winterbauer?

  Clearly.

• 11:22Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, of course. It is Rob Reiner, what went wrong hero. So, we're gonna roll the clock back and track Rob Reiner's career up to this point. He was born in 1947 to Estelle Reiner, who's an actress, and Carl Reiner. Are you familiar with Carl Reiner's work?

• 11:37Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes.

• 11:37Lizzie Bassett?

  Okay. Enormous actor, writer, director, created Dick Van Dyke Show, directed The Jerk, starred in so much stuff, more than we could possibly mention here. He's a legend. And if you're not familiar with Carl Reiner, you may know him as playing Saul Bloom in Ocean's Eleven.

• 11:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 11:53Lizzie Bassett?

  So Rob grew up really idolizing his father. He spent a lot of time with his dad's famous comedy friends like Mel Brooks and Norman Lear. Rob acted in a small role in his father's directorial debut, but Carl Reiner really didn't hand Rob Reiner a lot of parts. Rob spent most of his early career playing very small parts on TV and in improv groups. He also did some writing, but it was not his father. It was his father's old friend, Norman Lear, who gave Rob his big break as Michael Stivak, aka Meathead, in All in the Family in 1971. The show is a huge, huge hit. Rob Reiner won two Emmys for it, but he realized that the show was gonna go on way longer than he thought it was going

• 12:34Lizzie Bassett?

  to, so he was like, "All right, I'm gonna treat this as my film school. I'm gonna pay as close attention as I possibly can," because I think he always knew he wanted to be creating his own projects.

• 12:46Lizzie Bassett?

  So he left the show in 1978. And at this point, he had written quite a bit, including a few episodes of All in the Family, but he knew that he really wanted to become a director. But that dream would have to wait a few years, Chris. So back to Michael McKean and Christopher Guest. In 1978, they spun off Michael McKean's Laverne and Shirley character into a band alongside another castmate. And the guitarist for this band, Chris, was Nigel Tufnell.

• 13:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Hmm.

• 13:14Lizzie Bassett?

  Of course, that is Christopher Guest. No word on whether he had an accent at that point, and more on that momentarily. Now, this band, Lenny and the Squigtones, recorded a live album at the Roxy and appeared on an episode of American Bandstand. That same year, Rob Reiner put together a TV comedy review called The TV Show. The idea being that it would feel like flipping through the channels. It included a bunch of different sketches, and one of the ideas was for a parody of Midnight Special, which I think was like a rock variety show.

• 13:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm hmm.

• 13:45Lizzie Bassett?

  Christopher Guest is the one who suggested that it be filled by a, quote, "pe-brained British rock band." So Reiner, Guest, McKean, and Shearer, who at that point, I think was the show's producer, wrote Rock and Roll Nightmare. And this is where Spinal Tap is born. Reiner introduced the band as Wolfman Jack. And actually, fun fact, it's Loudon Wainwright III on the keyboard in this performance.

• 14:10Chris Winterbauer?

  Rufus's father.

• 14:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Rufus and Martha Wainwright's father. And I want to play you at least Rob Reiner's introduction as Wolfman Jack here on this production of The TV Show.

• 14:21Speaker 04

  And now from England, have might say you gonna love them to death. Spinal Tap.

• 14:32Chris Winterbauer?

  So he's doing kind of like, uh, it's like, uh-

• 14:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, Wolfman Jack was a real DJ.

• 14:36Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay. So it sounds like if Harvey Fire's seen it mixed with Elvis, that is-

• 14:40Lizzie Bassett?

  Definitely.

• 14:41Chris Winterbauer?

  What he's doing.

• 14:41Lizzie Bassett?

  And I think you can tell from this, like, it's a pretty, it looks like Spinal Tap. Like, this is a pretty fully formed idea at this point. But it's actually during this production that they started improvising in character because they were just performing the music. But it was clear to everyone, particularly Rob Reiner, this was something really, really funny and it deserved more than just a few minutes on the TV show. So the idea to make a feature film starts to snowball. And actually, Rob Reiner and Harry Shearer toyed with the idea of doing a more scripted movie about the life on the road. And it would have been told from the perspective of a roadie. But that went away because "Roadie," starring Meatloaf, came out in 1980 and it was exactly that movie.

• 15:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Maybe a good thing.

• 15:24Lizzie Bassett?

  Probably a good thing, yes, because we got Spinal Tap and I don't remember "Roadie." Eventually, though, they all realized that the band itself needed to be the focus of the film and that a documentary or, Chris, a rockumentary would be the best way to tell the story of Tap.

• 15:48Speaker 05

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• 16:18Speaker 06

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• 16:55Lizzie Bassett?

  So they began building their characters. Now, Guest pulled inspiration for Nigel from a real interaction that he witnessed at the Chateau Marmont in LA between the bass player for a British heavy metal band and their tour manager. Now, Chris, how do you feel about your British accent? And could I ask you to play a part?

• 17:13Chris Winterbauer?

  You may ask me, it will be bad.

• 17:15Lizzie Bassett?

  That's great. So I'd like you to please read Rockstar. All right, well, we'll take our instruments up to the room.

• 17:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Don't know where my bass is.

• 17:25Lizzie Bassett?

  I beg your pardon.

• 17:27Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't know where my bass is.

• 17:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Where is it?

• 17:30Chris Winterbauer?

  I think it's at the airport.

• 17:31Lizzie Bassett?

  You have to get back there, don't you?

• 17:34Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't know. Do I?

• 17:35Lizzie Bassett?

  I think you better.

• 17:37Chris Winterbauer?

  Where's my bass?

• 17:38Lizzie Bassett?

  It's at the airport!

• 17:40Chris Winterbauer?

  Scene.

• 17:41Lizzie Bassett?

  And scene, yes. He said this went on for like 20 minutes.

• 17:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, so it's like Who's on First? But with a bassist and his bass.

• 17:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, it's Who's on First with an extremely dumb bassist. And he said he was standing there thinking, quote, "This is good. This is important."

• 17:57Lizzie Bassett?

  Also, speaking of the British accents, Chris, do you know why Christopher Guest is very good?

• 18:03Chris Winterbauer?

  I have no idea.

• 18:04Lizzie Bassett?

  So his father is British.

• 18:06Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh.

• 18:07Lizzie Bassett?

  But he's not just British, he is actual nobility. His father was Peter Hayden Guest, the fourth Baron Hayden Guest. He was a UN diplomat and a member of the House of Lords. And Chris, do you know who the fifth Baron Hayden Guest is?

• 18:22Chris Winterbauer?

  It's not Christopher?

• 18:23Lizzie Bassett?

  It is Christopher Guest. He's a Baron.

• 18:25Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay, wow. He's a Baron, he made all these great movies, he's married to Jamie Lee Curtis.

• 18:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 18:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, poor Christopher Guest and his amazing life. Jamie Lee Curtis, who looks great!

• 18:38Lizzie Bassett?

  In everything. Yeah, he actually apparently attended the House of Lords pretty regularly until, I guess, a bunch of people who had inherited the titles lost their seats in the early 2000s. Also, quick fun fact, Jamie Lee Curtis used to use the name Baroness Hayden Guest to make dinner reservations in London because that got her a better table than Jamie Lee Curtis. Rude!

• 18:58Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, the Brits have failed.

• 19:00Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, seriously. So as they began to build the band's lore and their characters, the rest of them pulled from their own experiences in the music industry, as well as interviews with actual bands, like this one with Iron Maiden from the British magazine New Musical Express. And I'm gonna read some of the quotes. The reporter is basically just being a gigantic troll, which I really loved. And the band's answers, I think, as you will be able to tell, are straight up Spinal Tap. So on the live audience reaction to their shows, quote, "If a pile of shit walks on, they'll soon let you know they don't like it. You can't get away with just farting."

• 19:41Lizzie Bassett?

  On whether their fans feel more alive after a concert, quote, "I hope when they go home, they're so fucking wasted they can't fart anyone. You know what I mean?"

• 19:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Great, great.

• 19:52Lizzie Bassett?

  And then my personal favorite, and this one is almost a direct lift in Spinal Tap. When asked about whether heavy metal has a sexist attitude, their actual answer, not joking, was, "Well, there are only two songs we've written about women as such, and both are really, really tongue in cheek fantasy things about going with a prostitute, which not everyone can say they've done. I'm not saying we have. Well, I haven't." The other bandmate chimes in, "Don't say nothing about Hamburg." And back to the first guy, "But it's like a fantasy thing. It really is tongue in cheek."

• 20:25Chris Winterbauer?

  That's why it's a really sexual energy and young boys love it.

• 20:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes. It's like in the interview, they also asked them like why their whole audience is men and particularly white men.

• 20:35Chris Winterbauer?

  And they're like, because it's very sexual.

• 20:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, they have the craziest answers.

• 20:40Chris Winterbauer?

  I know they're making fun of hair metal, but I like that the sound of the band, to me, the band, I'm not a music expert, obviously. The band, Spinal Tap, sounds very much like The Who meets Jethro Tull. To me, it's like pseudo storytelling. Like they want like these epic sagas of the stories, but they're all so stupid.

• 20:59Lizzie Bassett?

  It's so stupid.

• 20:59Chris Winterbauer?

  It's great. I love it.

• 21:01Lizzie Bassett?

  It took them many, many months to map out about 17 years of fake history so that they would have all the info they needed when the camera started rolling. Now, in terms of inspiration, you've of course got documentaries like Gimme Shelter, which I love. Have you ever seen that one?

• 21:16Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, yeah, I saw Gimme Shelter. And what's the Bob Dylan one?

• 21:19Lizzie Bassett?

  That is Don't Look Back, the DA Pennabaker, which is kind of the first.

• 21:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Okay, yeah, I saw that when I was younger as well.

• 21:25Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, it's great. But possibly the biggest inspiration was the 1978 documentary, The Last Waltz. Have you ever seen it? It's great. It's essentially a concert film of the band's self-professed final concert before they wrap up life on the road for good. But you asked about this at the top. What Spinal Tap borrows most heavily from this is that Martin Scorsese inserts himself into the film via interviews.

• 21:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Got it, got it. And I forgot that Scorsese had that exact facial hair back in the day. Exactly. That's, yeah, if it was Milius, he would have had a cigar. I should have known.

• 22:02Lizzie Bassett?

  It's Marty. According to Rob Reiner, he was actually kind of pissed about this initially, but he eventually got over it by the time they did The Wolf of Wall Street, and he told Rob Reiner that he loved it.

• 22:12Chris Winterbauer?

  And Rob Reiner steals that scene in The Wolf of Wall Street. It is...

• 22:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes. Now, this is kind of surprising. Marty De Burghy is such an essential and, as you pointed out, funny part of this movie, which makes what I'm about to tell you all the more shocking. He was not the first person they considered to direct this.

• 22:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, Reiner wasn't?

• 22:32Lizzie Bassett?

  No. There was someone else that they actually approached before settling on Rob Reiner. It's someone who's popped up before, although we've never covered one of her movies. It's Penelope Sphyrus.

• 22:43Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, who would do Wayne's World?

• 22:44Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right. She would go on to do Wayne's World.

• 22:46Chris Winterbauer?

  Interesting.

• 22:47Lizzie Bassett?

  She actually, do you know anything about her?

• 22:48Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't know much. No, I know she had a really hard time on Wayne's World, and Mike Myers made her life not fun.

• 22:54Lizzie Bassett?

  A living hell, yeah. So she actually does make a lot of sense for this, because clearly she has a lot of comedy sensibilities. But she also, at that time, was probably best known for a really fantastic documentary about the LA punk scene called The Decline of Western Civilization. So she literally came from the rock documentary world. And according to Penelope, Guest and Shearer actually met with her several times and did want her to direct the film, but she is the one who said no.

• 23:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh.

• 23:23Lizzie Bassett?

  According to a 2011 Legendary Rock interview, she said, quote, "I was really into a lot of the bands and really seriously listening to a lot of it all and enjoying it. It was clear they were really making fun of it and putting it down, and I couldn't do that. I liked the music so much that I couldn't take it on, so I just stepped away from it." I think that's interesting because I don't, she's talking about heavy metal in particular.

• 23:45Chris Winterbauer?

  Right.

• 23:45Lizzie Bassett?

  I, I don't think they're putting down the music.

• 23:49Chris Winterbauer?

  I completely agree. This feels so loving to me. And it also feels like they're riffing on as many types of music as possible. Like, they have their origins and they start with the very clean, American bandstand-style stuff.

• 24:01Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, into the Flower Child-type stuff and then into, yeah.

• 24:05Chris Winterbauer?

  It's like The Monkees, right? Like, they're trying to be The Beatles, you know, early on.

• 24:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Give me some money.

• 24:11Chris Winterbauer?

  Like, Walk Hard does that, and it's very funny.

• 24:14Lizzie Bassett?

  Walk Hard borrows extremely heavily from Spinal Tap.

• 24:17Chris Winterbauer?

  So does Pop Star Never Stop Never Stopping, which I also think is an underrated film.

• 24:21Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree. But Christopher Guest actually dislikes the term "mockumentary" because he doesn't feel like they're mocking this. They, he-

• 24:28Chris Winterbauer?

  I, I agree. I think it's, I think they play it straight, which is what makes it funny.

• 24:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Exactly. And he, he actually refers to this as a "spommage," a spoof and homage. So I'm glad she turned it down because they end up going back to Rob Reiner, and of course, he would make this his directorial debut. Now, for his part, in terms of preparing, Reiner attended a Judas Priest concert. He was not a fan, and said that it, quote, "physically hurt his chest to stand in the auditorium, and he could not stay there very long. Protect this man at all costs. I love him so much." So in early 1980, all four guys, Reiner, Guest, Shearer, and McKean, started meeting pretty much every day to construct the history of the band, and also set up the basic elements of the story. Meanwhile, Rob Reiner pitched this as Final Tap around and managed to get

• 25:17Lizzie Bassett?

  a "maybe" from the US wing for Sir Lou Grade's production company called Marble Arch. And if you don't know who Sir Lou Grade was, British TV super-producer and studio head who was responsible for a few American hits, like The Muppet Show, actually.

• 25:35Lizzie Bassett?

  He was pretty convincing and Marble Arch offered them $60,000, offered him, I think $60,000 to write a script. So they sat down and they got to work on the screenplay. And after about a day and a half, they realized there would be no screenplay. Here is Rob Reiner on the Today Show explaining what happened next.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  But we couldn't figure out how we were going to communicate in screenplay form, what this thing was, which is a, you know, it's a documentary and improvised. We had to make it look real. So I went to the head of the studio. I said, give me the money that you were going to give us for the screenplay and we'll make you some of the film. Right. So we made 20 minutes of the film.

• 26:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Very smart. It's a smart idea. Reiner put $25,000 of his own money into this. The guys added another 5,000. And for around 90K, they put together, as he said, a 20 minute demo shot over four days called Spinal Tap: The Final Tour. You can actually watch the whole thing on YouTube. For the next few months, Rob Reiner was assembling the footage, but unfortunately Marble Arch was making some financially terrible decisions, including The Legend of the Lone Ranger and Raise the Titanic, which to quote Michael McKean was right boat, wrong direction. And unsurprisingly, the company went under. But not to worry, because United Artists started showing interest in Spinal Tap. So they're saved, right, Chris? Absolutely not. There's no way.

• 26:54Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right. They were absorbed by MGM. And as often happens on this show, the new guard got rid of everything on the old desks, including Spinal Tap. So now they literally had a can of 16 millimeter film, no script, no funding, and no studio. But Rob Reiner was not going to let that stop him. So he, alongside producer Karen Murphy, literally put the can of film under his arm and walked from one lot to the next, trying to sell the movie. He told Rolling Stone that he looked at Karen and said, if we ever get this film made, we're going to be able to say that we went with a can of film under our arms. We're doing that. We're doing the thing they always say in these stories. We're doing it. According to guest McKean and Shearer, David Begelman at Columbia got about two thirds of the way through the demo, turned to them and said, "Boys, boys, I'll be honest with

• 27:38Lizzie Bassett?

  you, I've already given $1 million to the Eagles to do a rock and roll movie." Can you guess what maybe one of the biggest problems they were having was with this?

• 27:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Did people think it was a real band?

• 27:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, they did not know what they were looking at.

• 27:51Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, so they just thought like, who are these idiots not, this is a comedy?

• 27:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Exactly.

• 27:56Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, because the music's good enough.

• 27:58Lizzie Bassett?

  It is good enough, and they're good enough at playing it.

• 28:01Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 28:02Lizzie Bassett?

  But they didn't even realize a lot of the time that the guys they were talking to were the ones they were looking at in the movie.

• 28:07Chris Winterbauer?

  Were the band, right. For me especially, Michael McKean, because I-

• 28:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 28:12Chris Winterbauer?

  He's changed a bit, he is almost unrecognizable in this movie to me.

• 28:15Lizzie Bassett?

  He's unrecognizable then, too, like the hair and the way that they're dressing him, it does not look like him at all.

• 28:20Chris Winterbauer?

  He's so funny.

• 28:21Lizzie Bassett?

  Honestly, Christopher Guest, too, in that Jeff Beck wig, it would be very hard to-

• 28:25Chris Winterbauer?

  That's true, yeah, yeah, that's true.

• 28:26Lizzie Bassett?

  The most recognizable person in the movie also was Rob Reiner, and that actually wasn't a good thing. Reiner told IndieWire, quote, "In those days, there was a big division between movies and television. Television people were peons and the movie people were royalty, they looked down on us."

• 28:41Chris Winterbauer?

  Yep.

• 28:41Lizzie Bassett?

  But after a lot of hustling and not giving up, they got a stroke of luck. Because a young executive named Lindsay Doran at AVCO Embassy Pictures, which is an independent production company behind some pretty big hits like The Graduate, The Producers, and Escape from New York, was looking to attach a director to a film that they had in development. She was talking to Pete Turner, who was an agent at William Morris, which was not even Rob Reiner's agent, Rob Reiner wasn't even at William Morris, but this guy had seen the 20-minute reel, because this thing had been floating around absolutely everywhere.

• 29:11Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:12Lizzie Bassett?

  So he told her she should consider Rob Reiner for the gig that she was trying to fill. She asked to see the reel, he showed it to her, and according to Rob Reiner's interview with Collider, her next question was, "Forget the movie, we're looking at, what are you doing with this thing?" She would actually go on to become the VP of Production at Paramount, where she oversaw development on some little movies like Ferris Bueller's Day Off, Ghost, Planes, Trains, and Automobiles, and was EP on two of my favorite Emma Thompson movies, Dead Again and Sense and Sensibility. So I think she knew a good thing when she was looking at it.

• 29:41Chris Winterbauer?

  Clearly.

• 29:50Speaker 07

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market.

• 29:56Speaker 08

  Love the crown molding.

• 29:58Speaker 07

  Oh, wait until you see the walk-in closets and the bathroom tile.

• 30:02Speaker 08

  Does it have Verizon FiOS? You know, 100% fiber internet.

• 30:05Speaker 07

  No FiOS, but it looks like it's got cable. Let's check out the kitchen.

• 30:09Speaker 08

  No FiOS? Yeah, no thank you.

• 30:12Speaker 07

  Don't you want to see the rest? Okay, bye-bye.

• 30:15Speaker 09

  Get Verizon FiOS, because when you're moving, it's 100% or nothing.

• 30:20Speaker 06

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• 30:50Speaker 10

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• 31:27Lizzie Bassett?

  So Lindsay Doran of AVCO Pictures met with Rob Reiner, and he was basically like, "Look, I cannot get anybody to finance this thing." She takes it to Frank Capra II, the head of AVCO Embassy at the time, and he said if they can find some financing, that he would distribute it. So Rob Reiner manages to come up with about a million dollars and he came back in ready to make the thing. But what happens, Chris?

• 31:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Is there regime change? Is Lindsay out?

• 31:53Lizzie Bassett?

  There is regime change.

• 31:55Chris Winterbauer?

  Ah, I knew it.

• 31:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Embassy is sold.

• 31:57Chris Winterbauer?

  Great.

• 31:58Lizzie Bassett?

  And again, everything in development got scrapped.

• 32:01Chris Winterbauer?

  And in the 80s, these companies are all getting bought and sold. Like the 80s was the crazy time. It goes from Gulf Western and then it's Coca-Cola. Now there's Sony.

• 32:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, everyone's on cocaine. I think you make a lot of deals very quickly.

• 32:13Chris Winterbauer?

  Deal, sell, sells.

• 32:13Lizzie Bassett?

  Deal, sell, sells. Sell it, buy it. But the good news is, this time, Rob Reiner actually had an in with the new owners because the company had been purchased by Jerry Perankio and Reiner's All in the Family creator, Norman Lear.

• 32:26Chris Winterbauer?

  Norman Lear.

• 32:28Lizzie Bassett?

  So Rob Reiner threw a hail Mary. He begged for a meeting with Norman and Jerry, and because of his All in the Family connection, he got it. Here he is speaking with Collider about what happened next.

• 32:38Speaker 04

  So they gave me a meeting and all these executives around, and I went through this crazy pitch, screaming, you know, it's gonna be brilliant, it's gonna be funny, kids are gonna love it, it's repeat business, it's rock and roll, it's, you know, I'm going on and on. And apparently, after I leave the room, this is what I'm told happened. Norman turns to everybody in the room and says, well, who's gonna tell him he can't do this? And basically, Norman took a leap of faith. And if it wasn't for him, there's no way I could get this made.

• 33:08Lizzie Bassett?

  I love that.

• 33:09Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm hmm.

• 33:10Lizzie Bassett?

  His passion was too much. So, thanks to Norman Lear, they finally had financing and distribution for This is Spinal Tap. But they were pretty desperate to make this movie, Chris, and that's important to remember because of the deal that they signed. Now, by spring of 1982, This is Spinal Tap was finally happening with a budget of around $2 million, and the full team was being assembled. Meanwhile, as I said, Rob Reiner, Michael McKean, Christopher Guest, and Harry Shearer were writing all of the music. They write all of it, they perform all of it. Now, Reiner was very specific about the crew he hired. He wanted people from the world of rock and roll. So he actually hired cinematographer Peter Smokler, who had done

• 33:54Lizzie Bassett?

  a ton of rock and roll documentaries, including being at Altamont for Gimme Shelter. He literally filmed Gimme Shelter. That is who shot Spinal Tap. He also brought on production designer Brian Jones, who had worked with Santana, and a lighting designer who'd worked with Boston. For his supporting cast, you mentioned this, but they brought in a lot of old friends like Billy Crystal, Ed Begley Jr. and Paul Shaffer. They also found some new faces, including Angelica Huston. And of course, one of my favorite performances in the whole thing, a very early, pre-nanny Fran Drescher as Bobby Fleckman.

• 34:27Chris Winterbauer?

  Boys, boys.

• 34:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Boys. According to her memoir, Enter Whining, great title, she showed up at her audition the day after a night shoot on a feature film. And she said, quote, "I was so tired, but somehow my exhaustion paid off for me because Rob really responded to my slow, monotone, I could give a shit, I'm so fucking tired attitude."

• 34:47Chris Winterbauer?

  Yep. Money talks, bullshit walks. They will not put it in Kmart.

• 34:55Lizzie Bassett?

  June Chadwick joined as Janine Pettibone after reportedly beating out Steve Martin's then-wife Victoria Tennant. I also saw in a couple of places that the addition of Janine may have been a request from the studio to give a little bit more conflict and shape to the story.

• 35:10Chris Winterbauer?

  Right. The pseudo Yoko kind of character coming in. Yeah. Although they avoid the heroin trajectory that those two went on, which I think was the right decision.

• 35:20Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, yeah. They go in more of an astrology direction, which is great.

• 35:23Chris Winterbauer?

  Yes. Yeah.

• 35:24Lizzie Bassett?

  There are also actual musicians in this. RJ Parnell as drummer Mick Shrimpton, current drummer, we should say. And David Caff as keyboardist Viv Savage. I think that guy is so funny.

• 35:36Chris Winterbauer?

  He, so have you ever seen the movie American Movie?

• 35:39Lizzie Bassett?

  No.

• 35:40Chris Winterbauer?

  It's a documentary about a guy in the Midwest who's attempting to finish a short film, then to make a feature film called Coven, Coven is how he pronounces it. And it's kind of just about American delusions of grandeur and hubris, but also a small town rallying around like a very eccentric person. And he has a best friend who looks like Peter Jackson and this character from Spinal Tap, who's weirdly a guitar prodigy. And there's just a scene where he's just sitting in front of the camera and he plays this beautiful guitar part and just kind of smiles. And like, that's the whole scene. And he, this, the keyboardist reminded me so much of that character from American Movie. And I recommend American Movie to everybody out there.

• 36:17Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, I want to watch it. He actually was not the first choice, though. A musician named John Sinclair was, but he had to drop out in order to go on tour with Uriah Heap. This ended up being a stroke of luck because he called them to tell them that Uriah Heap was booked to play an Air Force base. And that's why they put that in this movie.

• 36:35Chris Winterbauer?

  The interfering radio calls are so funny in that scene. It's so good.

• 36:41Lizzie Bassett?

  But not everyone knew what they were in for in terms of this production. Paul Shaffer, who plays Artie Fufkin, of course, the Midwest promo rep who messes up there.

• 36:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Kick me in the ass.

• 36:52Lizzie Bassett?

  He's so funny.

• 36:53Chris Winterbauer?

  Kick my ass right now.

• 36:55Lizzie Bassett?

  Who messes up their record store signing. Apparently asked Harry Shearer if he would be getting his lines ahead of time, to which Shearer replied, "You'll be making them up, sir."

• 37:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Mm hmm.

• 37:05Lizzie Bassett?

  Which I love.

• 37:07Chris Winterbauer?

  Artie Fufkin.

• 37:08Lizzie Bassett?

  Artie Fufkin, never prepared. Principal photography began in late 1982 and lasted about five weeks or 25 days. This must have been a pretty insane experience for everyone on set because as we've mentioned, there was no script. There really weren't rehearsals. They'd written an outline that sketched out all the scenes and the basic plot points of what would happen in the movie, but that was about it. You know, there are some visual jokes, like the amp going to 11, the pod not opening on stage, but outside of that, nothing was planned. This includes things like Fran Drescher going on a rant about the White Album. She had no idea that their Black Album was going to be a plot point later in the movie when she said that.

• 37:48Chris Winterbauer?

  It's very, very good. You think about how much more black it could be. None, none blacker.

• 37:54Lizzie Bassett?

  None more black. Rob Reiner also said that one of the few scenes that was completely organic was where Nigel is playing his mock piano song for Marty.

• 38:04Chris Winterbauer?

  The D minor, how he writes everything in D minor. What's this one called? Lick My Love Pump.

• 38:10Lizzie Bassett?

  That happened because he just saw Christopher Guest noodling around on the piano and told Peter Smokler to go over and start filming him.

• 38:17Chris Winterbauer?

  It was great.

• 38:18Lizzie Bassett?

  Now, bonus points, this meant the studio could not ask how many pages they shot because there were no pages. So there was no way to know if they were behind or ahead.

• 38:26Chris Winterbauer?

  And they probably had a ton of dailies because they're just rolling on everything. So the studio can't even watch all the dailies.

• 38:33Lizzie Bassett?

  They had so much footage. There's no way. Nor do I think they probably would want to because this was not, this was a real, you know, long shot. The band also played all their own instruments, including sometimes live, like for Jazz Odyssey. In fact, they were so pitch perfect as their characters that at one point, Rob Reiner told Collider that Peter Smokler, again, the cinematographer who had literally shot Gimme Shelter, turned to him and said, "What is this? This is not funny. This is exactly what they do."

• 39:03Chris Winterbauer?

  Right.

• 39:03Lizzie Bassett?

  And Rob Reiner was like, "No, no. It's, I mean, we're close to the bone, but we're not exactly." Because of their very small budget, the whole movie is shot in LA, including all the concert scenes being shot at the Raymond Theater in Pasadena, Chris, our hometown.

• 39:18Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, I did recognize, I think, one location.

• 39:21Lizzie Bassett?

  Oh, what?

• 39:23Chris Winterbauer?

  The, I believe the Elvis grave is a park in Altadena.

• 39:26Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, it was filmed at a park in Altadena. And also reportedly, the reason they sing Heartbreak Hotel is because that's the only song they could get the rights to.

• 39:35Chris Winterbauer?

  It's not in a different key. It's harmony.

• 39:39Lizzie Bassett?

  In fact, because the budget was so low, Fran Drescher said, quote, "There were no dressing rooms, no costumes, no money, and no script. Each actor was given a 25-page outline pointing out any key information that needed to be covered in the scene. After that, what was said and how we got to the plot point was anyone's guess." She said she wore her own clothes, did her own hair and makeup. June Chadwick said the same thing. Everything she wore was her own, and the wardrobe lady basically just helped them put stuff together.

• 40:07Chris Winterbauer?

  I gotta, Billy Crystal must have pitched the mime caterers.

• 40:11Lizzie Bassett?

  I don't know.

• 40:11Chris Winterbauer?

  That seems like such a Billy Crystal thing for him to just say, "Rob, Rob, Rob, we're gonna be mimes. That's what we're gonna be doing."

• 40:18Lizzie Bassett?

  Probably. Well, speaking of that, they had a really hard time keeping their shit together on set during some scenes, because obviously, they don't know what they're gonna say. They didn't know what questions they were gonna be asked, or how the conversations are going to go. So here's Rob Reiner, Michael McKean, Christopher Guest, and Harry Shearer again on the Today Show, talking about that.

• 40:37Speaker 11

  But generally, the questions were a lovely surprise, because mainly we knew the answers.

• 40:43Speaker 04

  When he said you can't dust for vomit, I mean, I went a couple of places that I had to go. You can't dust for vomit. That got me.

• 40:51Speaker 11

  Well, Paul Benedict, the late Paul Benedict. Do you know who that is?

• 40:55Speaker 04

  No. He was the hotel clerk when we were checking into the motel.

• 40:59Speaker 11

  Yes, yes. Yes. And it's like, everything out of his mouth, which just made, just broke everybody up. And Fred Willard, when we were visiting the Air Force Base, that was really the... That was difficult. Hold it in, hold it in. Yeah, yeah.

• 41:13Lizzie Bassett?

  It just sounds like this would have been so much fun to be on set for. But one actor, actually the guy who played Duke Fame, do you remember who that was? He's the one that they see in the hotel lobby, who's the like, more famous...

• 41:26Chris Winterbauer?

  The rival, right, right, right, right. Whose album cover was allowed...

• 41:29Lizzie Bassett?

  Exactly.

• 41:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Because it was him being whipped on the table by the women.

• 41:33Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, he had a very different reaction to being on set. He showed up and was so scared that he literally couldn't talk, which is why Howard Hessman is in the movie as his manager and does all of the speaking in that scene. That's great. It works right. It's amazing. According to McKean in the Criterion Commentary, he said, "His character did not exist until the day before we shot it. It was going to be a rock and roll star, a rock and roll performer, Duke fame, that they run into, but the guy we got to do Duke fame couldn't talk at all. He was just terrified. He looked great. He looked perfect. And so it was like, can you get Howard over here in eight hours? I think he could be a manager or something." And he's great. So the film was shot using handheld cameras on 16mm film, which was then blown up to 35mm.

• 42:16Lizzie Bassett?

  Reiner was often acting as a human camera dolly, just physically moving Smokler around where he wanted him to go. He used three cameras to shoot every song three times, so he had nine angles to work with. And for this performance with the transparent shells, there were actually crew members laying underneath the platforms, opening and closing the pods manually on cue. And according to Shearer, that was really, they were like struggling to hold them together because they were actually so easy to open. They may have had no money and no time and no script, but as you pointed out, they went out of their way for authenticity. In fact, one day when they were scheduled to tape a backstage scene, they walked onto set and it looked all wrong. According to Shearer in GQ, quote, "We walk in

• 43:00Lizzie Bassett?

  and it looks like the art director has visited freeway underpasses near Mexican gang areas. So we say, no, no, here is the phone number of the troubadour. Go to the troubadour and go upstairs. We'll wait." And they did. They redecorated the entire set. Good for them. And now, speaking of authenticity, of course, Chris, we have to talk about some of the bands that they are spoofing. One of my favorite scenes in the whole thing is obviously, "Hello, Cleveland." Yeah, when they get lost. Lost backstage. Unbelievably, there are several real-life inspirations for this. I think you actually see a little bit of it in the Bob Dylan documentary that you mentioned. But my favorite one is Tom Petty getting completely lost backstage and somehow winding up on an indoor tennis court. Let's take a look.

• 43:46Speaker 12

  We're in the wrong room. Want to go back up? Let's go back up and get in the right room. Come on. Oh, yeah, this is happening.

• 44:01Speaker 13

  We're in the wrong room. We're in the wrong room, Tommy.

• 44:07Lizzie Bassett?

  If you guys want to see this, you should go over to our Instagram and you can see it is actually Tom Petty walking around backstage going, "We're in the wrong room, we're in the wrong fucking room." And then they wind up on an indoor tennis court for no apparent reason. Chris, I also want to play you a little snippet. This is the Trogs, who were being recorded, unbeknownst to them.

• 44:29Speaker 14

  Given to it, it's a fucking number one. It is. Whether you think so or not, that is a number fucking one. And if that bastard don't go, then I'll fucking retire. I fucking do. I think it is a good song. I agree, it is a good song. But it fucking won't be unless we spend a little bit of fucking thought and imagination to fucking make it fucking number one. You've got to put a little bit of fucking fairy dust over the bastard, you know, like, you know. Put some fairy dust over it. I'll kiss over the title.

• 45:00Lizzie Bassett?

  Put a little bit of fucking fairy dust over it.

• 45:03Chris Winterbauer?

  You know what needed that? Bohemian Rhapsody needed one of those scenes.

• 45:07Lizzie Bassett?

  It did. It needed a little bit of fairy dust. Nigel's freak out over the tiny bread was at least partially inspired by some real writers, including Van Halen's insistence that no brown M&Ms be present anywhere backstage, although I've heard that this was potentially a test, actually, to see if people were paying attention to the rider.

• 45:23Chris Winterbauer?

  And riders, to be clear, these are stipulations in the contracts of performers, for the most part, you know, actors, I'm sure directors as well, actors, musicians, where, you know, this must be present in the green room when I arrive. And sometimes it's literally very basic stuff. Can I please make sure there's water available for me when I arrive at this place? So these are not, most of the time, I don't think these are unreasonable. They are very, just like, human decency level requests, but sometimes they are very funny.

• 45:53Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 45:53Chris Winterbauer?

  Very funny.

• 45:55Lizzie Bassett?

  And of all people, Yul Brynner had a very, not a rock star, but had a really specific and weird rider that included, quote, "Under no circumstances may white eggs be substituted for brown."

• 46:10Chris Winterbauer?

  All right.

• 46:11Lizzie Bassett?

  There were also a couple of complete coincidences like Black Sabbath chose a Stonehenge set for their own tour two weeks before the movie came out, and then they proceeded to accuse Spinal Tap of stealing their idea, to which Rob Reiner told Newsweek, "It shows how dumb they are."

• 46:26Chris Winterbauer?

  Right.

• 46:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Took us two years to make the film.

• 46:29Chris Winterbauer?

  Time travel, mate, you know?

• 46:31Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right. Also, weirder and sadder, one of their drummers dying in a freak gardening accident actually kind of happened to the drummer of Toto, who died of a heart attack that may have been partially brought on by inhaling insecticide while gardening.

• 46:45Chris Winterbauer?

  Oh, Jesus.

• 46:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Among other things, very sad. So even though the shoot took 25 days, the edit took seven or eight months, which makes sense, given, as you pointed out, they shot somewhere between 50 to 70 hours of film for this.

• 46:58Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 46:59Lizzie Bassett?

  Rob Reiner's first cut was four hours long, and that didn't even include three hours of interview footage. It's pretty amazing that he and editors Kim Sekrist, Kent Beta, and Robert Leighton were able to eventually whittle down a seven-hour cut into an incredibly tight 84 minutes.

• 47:16Chris Winterbauer?

  And it probably would have been hard, because I'm guessing a lot of it was still very funny.

• 47:20Lizzie Bassett?

  It was.

• 47:21Chris Winterbauer?

  And how do you decide which joke's the best and which one could maybe further the story? And that's really hard.

• 47:27Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, it's not even the jokes, too. I mean, they cut entire storylines.

• 47:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Right, and songs, I'm sure, too, that they'd spent a lot of time writing. Certainly a Kill Your Darlings.

• 47:37Lizzie Bassett?

  Kill Your Darlings, that's right. Was there anything that stood out as being unexplained over the course of the movie? Perhaps something that appears on some of the bandmates' faces?

• 47:47Chris Winterbauer?

  The herpes outbreak?

• 47:48Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 47:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, I wrote it down. I wrote, "Michael McKean herpes cold sore?" Question mark?

• 47:53Lizzie Bassett?

  They all have herpes cold sores, except for the drummer.

• 47:56Chris Winterbauer?

  Right, he was the one I noticed, I don't know when I noticed it, but yeah, I just thought it was a funny sight gag, like, oh yeah, they're sleeping with, wrote, you know, the groupies or whatever and getting herpes.

• 48:06Lizzie Bassett?

  It totally still works, but it actually was an entire storyline that got cut. It was featuring Sherri Curry, who's the lead singer of The Runaways, and she was going to be shown in several scenes with a herpes sore, canoodling with the members of the band, everybody except for the drummer. So it was a running joke that they were all getting herpes outbreaks because of her. But as you pointed out, it's not there, and it still works just as well, I think, with no explanation for why they all have it.

• 48:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah, it's just a little Easter egg.

• 48:40Speaker 07

  Welcome to 215 Maple Drive. We just put this property on the market.

• 48:46Speaker 08

  Love the crown molding.

• 48:48Speaker 07

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• 48:52Speaker 08

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• 48:55Speaker 07

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• 48:59Speaker 08

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• 49:02Speaker 07

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• 50:18Lizzie Bassett?

  They were, as we've said, very focused on authenticity in the edit as well, particularly Harry Shearer, maybe sometimes to a fault. He actually got into it with Rob Reiner a few times over the concert scene where the stagehand is trying to help him get out of the transparent pod. He was arguing that you should not be able to hear the hammer because it's a live show. And Rob Reiner was like, no, it's comedy. I'm gonna make the hammer audible. Right. Rob Reiner won. Editor Robert Lee said that one of the actors, again, I'm guessing Shearer based on what I've read, got upset when they were doing the sound mix because at the party, they were turning the music down so you could actually hear the audio. And he was angry. He was like, they wouldn't be able to do that. It should be unintelligible during this scene.

• 51:02Lizzie Bassett?

  Now, the studio was less interested in everything being authentic and more interested in people, to your point at the beginning of this, understanding that it was a joke. In fact, apparently, the head of marketing, according to Harry Shearer, said, quote, "Don't you guys think you need to wink sometime in the first 30 seconds to let people know you're kidding?" And the guys were like, "No, that opening scene with Marty is enough of a tip-off."

• 51:25Chris Winterbauer?

  And it's what it is now that you know, but it's not. He plays it completely earnestly. That's what's so funny about it.

• 51:32Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, also, I mean, I'm guessing they were thinking Rob Reiner is recognizable. They have to know that this is not real if he's introducing himself as Marty DeBergy. But at the same time, I don't know that you automatically know that that's Rob Reiner.

• 51:46Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't know what people would think at the time. He seems recognizable to me. But I think the real tip-off is the introduction of Spinal Tap as one of England's loudest bands. That, to me, is like, "Okay, I know what we're doing now." That is the tip-off.

• 52:01Lizzie Bassett?

  I know, but they play it so dry.

• 52:03Chris Winterbauer?

  They do, which is what makes it so funny.

• 52:06Lizzie Bassett?

  So the studio was like, "Fine, but if the first two critics that see this and write preview reviews don't like it, it will not be released." But lucky for all of us, critics pretty much universally loved This Is Spinal Tap. Now, audiences, on the other hand, were a little confused. Reiner told Collider, quote, "The first screening was in Dallas, and people came up to me and they said, 'What is this?'" They said, "Why would you make a movie about a band that nobody ever heard of and one that's this bad? Why wouldn't you make a movie about The Stones or The Beatles or something?" Christopher Guest and Michael McKean were actually getting popcorn when two women came up to the counter and just said, "These guys are so stupid," not realizing they were standing next to the two stars of the movie.

• 52:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Also, though, why are they screening in Dallas? Come on. Go to LA. Go to a music scene. Sorry, no offense, Dallas. Nashville.

• 52:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Christopher Guest and Michael McKean, though, at least they were like, "They're right. They are stupid." Like, that's the point of the movie.

• 53:01Chris Winterbauer?

  That is true.

• 53:02Lizzie Bassett?

  Someone also left a comment card at another screening suggesting they get a new cameraman.

• 53:07Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, I guess they don't understand that it's a concert film.

• 53:10Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 53:11Chris Winterbauer?

  You know, I get it, but yes, very rude.

• 53:13Lizzie Bassett?

  So despite being featured on numerous top 10 best of lists for 1984, this is final tap only pulled in around $5 million in its theatrical run. With a budget of $2 million, that means tap at best broke even, but more likely it was a big time flopper, Chris.

• 53:30Chris Winterbauer?

  Well, a little.

• 53:31Lizzie Bassett?

  It was a, it was a medium time flopper, let's say.

• 53:34Chris Winterbauer?

  Certainly not as big as that cucumber that was shoved down Derek Small's pants.

• 53:40Lizzie Bassett?

  So that's actually one of the story arcs that was cut. There's a lot more about the cucumber. The guys are sort of like making him feel bad about not, you know, not having an armadillo in his pants, if you will.

• 53:50Chris Winterbauer?

  Right.

• 53:51Lizzie Bassett?

  And so they're like convincing him to make it bigger and bigger. And then there's a whole scene of them wrapping it and everything. So we don't see any of that. We just see him go through the metal detector, which honestly is, that's all I need.

• 54:00Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. And then the look on his face of like, are you happy now as he walks away?

• 54:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 54:05Chris Winterbauer?

  Just this insolent child. It's so funny.

• 54:07Lizzie Bassett?

  He's so great.

• 54:08Chris Winterbauer?

  Can I tell you where my mind went?

• 54:09Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 54:10Chris Winterbauer?

  A penis piercing.

• 54:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 54:11Chris Winterbauer?

  Right? That, and you're thinking penis piercing, penis piercing. And nothing could be more embarrassing than penis piercing. And then it's more embarrassing than penis piercing. It's so good.

• 54:21Lizzie Bassett?

  Speaking of penis piercings, I don't know if you watched Final Destination Bloodlines, but that is a, probably their, their best death involves a heavily magnetized MRI machine that rips out numerous piercings, including a penis one. One sweet fun fact is that Rob Reiner's directorial debut, as we said, Spinal Tap was frequently featured opposite his father's film from that year on a lot of the top 10 lists. It was All of Me, starring Steve Martin and Lily Tomlin, which I really love that movie.

• 54:51Lizzie Bassett?

  But despite the lack of box office success, something did save Spinal Tap. A technological advent in the mid eighties, Chris, what was it?

• 54:59Chris Winterbauer?

  Home video?

• 55:00Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right. Home video. Pretty much entirely through word of mouth, Spinal Tap started to gain a following through the home video market. It was passed around college dorms, high schools. People were quoting it endlessly. Over the course of many years, it became the definition of a cult classic.

• 55:18Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 55:18Lizzie Bassett?

  Even rock stars that it parodied started to worship the tap.

• 55:22Chris Winterbauer?

  It was Dave Grohl, right, who said this was the only good rock and roll concert film?

• 55:26Lizzie Bassett?

  I don't know, but that would make sense.

• 55:28Chris Winterbauer?

  It was like him and Kurt Cobain and Cobain was like, they've never made a good rock and roll movie. And then Dave Grohl says, except for Spinal Tap. And he's like, oh, yeah, yeah. Okay, okay. That's the only one I.

• 55:38Lizzie Bassett?

  I mean, it is. It legitimately is a good rock and roll documentary.

• 55:42Chris Winterbauer?

  I had always heard it was very well respected amidst a lot of the, you know, rock and rollers who came up after it.

• 55:48Lizzie Bassett?

  It totally is. In fact, when Sting auditioned for The Princess Bride, he told Rob Reiner that he had seen it like upwards of 50 times. And every time he watched it, he didn't know whether to laugh or cry.

• 56:00Chris Winterbauer?

  That does make me like Sting more because he comes across a little humorless in the Emperor's New Groove Sweatbox documentary that we, that I watched.

• 56:09Chris Winterbauer?

  But that does make me like him more.

• 56:12Lizzie Bassett?

  I know. Makes me think if he's able to laugh at Spinal Tap, he must be at least a little bit fun. But everything came full circle in 1991, when Spinal Tap performed for a live concert at the Disneyland Hotel. And they actually parlayed this into a full album, Break Like The Wind, in 1992, which this thing was produced by T-Bone Burnett. It featured Jeff Beck, of course, potentially the inspiration for at least Nigel Tufnell's look. Cher, Slash, and many, many more. Have you ever heard this?

• 56:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. And didn't they play Wembley?

• 56:46Lizzie Bassett?

  They did.

• 56:47Chris Winterbauer?

  The next year?

• 56:47Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 56:48Chris Winterbauer?

  92?

• 56:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, they played Wembley Stadium. They played Royal Albert Hall. It is incredible. Spinal Tap became a successful band. And also keep that in mind. They are playing and selling out stadiums like Wembley Stadium and Royal Albert Hall. That's going to come back in just a few minutes.

• 57:06Chris Winterbauer?

  The Enormo Dome? Is that the one that Duke Fane was going to play?

• 57:10Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. Spinal Tap obviously launched Rob Reiner's directing career. It obviously had a huge influence on Christopher Guest, too. You mentioned this. He goes on to really sort of perfect the mockumentary, or spommage, with movies like Waiting for Guffman, Best in Show, A Mighty Wind, and many more. He told Flavor Wire, quote, "If it hadn't been for Norman Lear, there would never have been a movie, because he was the only one who said, 'Just go and do this,' and he trusted Rob." And then years later, when a company called Castle Rock was formed, which of course we talked about recently on Shawshank, Rob Reiner said to me, "Just go and make a movie." And I made a movie called Waiting for Guffman, and then I made several more. That doesn't happen anymore, where someone says, "Just

• 57:52Lizzie Bassett?

  go and make your movie." Rob was lucky to have Norman as his patron, and I was lucky to have Rob as mine.

• 58:00Chris Winterbauer?

  Good for, good for Reiner, good for Norman, good for both Reiners.

• 58:04Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah. Good for all Reiners. Why do you think this is not happening anymore?

• 58:11Chris Winterbauer?

  I think that, well, this is a big conversation, Lizzie. I think that as management in the United States has become more and more divorced from the work that it oversees, that has become true in Hollywood as well. I think a studio executive is, at the end of the day, a dilettante, right? They're somebody who deeply admires the work but doesn't do the work themselves necessarily. But that can be a powerful thing. That can be like an advocate, for example. But I think it's like the management consultification of everything. The goal now is to minimize the chance that you'll, you know, be fired and you can maintain your position. And risk-taking, I think, has gone out the window. And movies are riskier

• 58:55Chris Winterbauer?

  now, so there are fewer opportunities to make your money back than there, than there used to be. But I think that fewer and fewer creative people are in positions of, of power within this business. And movies have always been weird in that It's an art, like, you've got, I have little weird thoughts on this, Lizzy. Okay, so you know, like, to be an artist, right? To specialize in something that's very specific and has debatable or abstract value to society, you have to be subsidized by that society effectively, right? And that's where like patronage comes from, is I'm willing to pay for your room and board and food because Leonardo da Vinci, you're going to paint me some masterpiece. I'm a rich person and I want it.

• 59:38Chris Winterbauer?

  And then, you know, the modern capitalist version of that, you get versions of rich people wanting to play Hollywood, et cetera. And I think that-

• 59:46Lizzie Bassett?

  Rich people's children in particular, yes.

• 59:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Sure, exactly. Looking at Ellison with Skydance, for example, and his sister with Anna Perna, and God bless them, please spend your father's billions on making movies. That's fantastic. But I think that right now, more than ever, the ability to make a movie is really contingent on your ability to fundraise. And historically, producers have been that intermediary between writers, directors, actors, and the money. And I think that the creative producer, right, is, is hard to find. And Reiner was a great creative producer. He wanted to write and direct, but obviously, he ushered in Deriband, he ushered in Christopher Guest. But that's what a lot of these other folks saw themselves as too. You know, we're going to talk Back to the Future. Sid Sheinberg saw himself as that for Spielberg.

• 1:00:31Chris Winterbauer?

  Spielberg saw himself as that for Zemeckis. There was a reaching back quality. I'm not saying that it doesn't still happen. Jordan Peele, I know, is attempting, you know, to do some of this stuff with his production company. I just think it's, it's hard now. Money's harder to come by and there are more competing forces for our attention. And the industry's a little more in survivalist mode. And so I think people are less likely to, they, people kind of hole up and they hermit instead of reaching across the aisle.

• 1:01:01Lizzie Bassett?

  Well, I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of the creative producer issue because it seems like as we get into the movies that are more recent across this podcast, those people tend not to be creators themselves and there may be more sort of company men and women. And they're increasingly being forced to-

• 1:01:24Lizzie Bassett?

  Legitimize themselves, like, give a reason for why they're there. And I think this is just gonna get worse with the advent of AI, because that is, to a certain degree, eliminating a lot of sort of creative middle management. And I just think if you're afraid for your job, which a lot of people in those positions are, you're going to go for the reliable hit. I think you've said this before, Chris. It's just like on the studio where it's like, even if the Kool-Aid movie isn't a hit, you can at least point back and say, it's not my fault. This is a, you know, billion-dollar food brand that everybody knows. So of course, this should have been a hit. It must be somebody else.

• 1:02:06Lizzie Bassett?

  And I think it's really unfortunate that so few original ideas are are having this kind of creativity and financial backing put behind them. But speaking of nonoriginal IP, talk of a sequel to Spinal Tap has been kicking around for many, many years. In fact, according to all the guys, plenty of executives who passed on the original film have been begging them to revive Spinal Tap. Guests even told the Today Show that, quote, "Years later, I got a phone call. The person shall be nameless for the purposes of this." And that person had said, "No." And this time, they said, "I'm looking for a new job." They said, "Is it all right if I tell people that I worked on the film?" And I said, "I don't think it is."

• 1:02:48Chris Winterbauer?

  Definitely not.

• 1:02:49Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah, what?

• 1:02:50Chris Winterbauer?

  But thanks for asking and not just putting it on your LinkedIn, which a lot of people would do.

• 1:02:55Lizzie Bassett?

  That's true. Now, I really hope that the guys make some money from the sequel, because despite the massive success of Spinal Tap over time, because it was financially a success over time, they saw almost no money from it. Do you know about this, Chris?

• 1:03:10Chris Winterbauer?

  I know that they, I know, I believe Harry Shearer at first filed a lawsuit.

• 1:03:15Lizzie Bassett?

  So Shearer told GQ, quote, "I think we all shared this fantasy that because we'd made fun of this stuff, it wouldn't happen to us. When we started getting fucked over, we were just like, my God, in blank disbelief." So here's what happened. Embassy Pictures went through a bunch of different owners over the years. Like you said, Chris, everybody's on cocaine, everybody's buying and selling, which meant the rights to Spinal Tap went wherever Embassy went. Obviously allegedly on cocaine. I don't know that for sure. Now embassy got kind of split up for parts between Sony, which owns TV syndication rights to most of its titles and Studio Canal, which owns ancillary rights to most of their movie library.

• 1:03:52Chris Winterbauer?

  Right.

• 1:03:52Lizzie Bassett?

  So Spinal Tap effectively wound up in the hands of the parent company of Studio Canal and Universal Music Group, Vivendi. As you said, in 2016, Harry Shearer started to look around and wonder, what the fuck? Why have we not received basically anything off of the original film after all these years? So he filed a legal complaint. What's so funny to me is that it took this long for them to notice that they weren't getting any of the residuals from Spinal Tap. I mean, maybe it's just because they all had so much money. I don't know. Harry Shearer was a regular on The Simpsons.

• 1:04:25Chris Winterbauer?

  It's easy to assume.

• 1:04:27Lizzie Bassett?

  That's true.

• 1:04:28Chris Winterbauer?

  That these people are rolling in this in money. And they also, there are a lot of other people taking cuts. There are lawyers and managers and agents and so.

• 1:04:35Lizzie Bassett?

  Listen, I'm not begrudging him anything.

• 1:04:37Chris Winterbauer?

  Damn government.

• 1:04:40Lizzie Bassett?

  Now, according to the legal complaint that he filed, Vivendi claimed that between 1989 and 2006, their total income from Spinal Tap soundtrack sales was, Chris, any guesses? Total income?

• 1:04:52Chris Winterbauer?

  A thousand dollars.

• 1:04:54Lizzie Bassett?

  Ninety-eight dollars.

• 1:04:56Chris Winterbauer?

  There we go. That's that studio math. There it is.

• 1:04:59Lizzie Bassett?

  Good old fashioned Hollywood accounting.

• 1:05:01Chris Winterbauer?

  It was just very expensive to promote. We were selling them at less than cost. It was just, you know, like, yeah.

• 1:05:08Lizzie Bassett?

  No, you weren't. They also set the four creators' share of total merchandising income at eighty-one dollars.

• 1:05:15Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:16Lizzie Bassett?

  They were selling out Wembley Stadium. So of course, Chris, to your point, this is because of good old fashioned Hollywood accounting, where they are stacking up supposed losses against the income. Now, the question becomes whether or not those losses are real.

• 1:05:33Chris Winterbauer?

  Applicable. Right.

• 1:05:34Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes. So shortly thereafter, Rob Reiner, Christopher Guest and Michael McKean all joined Shearer and boosted his original complaint for damages up to $400 million. Shearer made the point that a lot of production companies literally put a line item in their budgets for a lawsuit because they know they may have to sue the studio down the line. Is that true, Chris?

• 1:05:55Chris Winterbauer?

  I don't know. I believe it. I wouldn't have been privy to a conversation about that, although I'll happily sue David Zaslove any point for anything. Just kidding. What I will say is, my initial reaction when I heard that number, 400 million, was, oh my god, that's high. But actually, when you think about it, well, you also have to think about, well, it's not just the gross sales, it is the interest on that income that has also been

• 1:06:19Lizzie Bassett?

  Right.

• 1:06:20Chris Winterbauer?

  foregone in not being paid out at an appropriate time. So we are talking about income from nearly 40 years ago

• 1:06:28Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right.

• 1:06:29Chris Winterbauer?

  that has compound interest on top of it that would have

• 1:06:32Lizzie Bassett?

  They did not receive, yeah.

• 1:06:34Chris Winterbauer?

  quadrupled, quintupled by the time, you know, by today.

• 1:06:38Lizzie Bassett?

  Right. And of course, you know, we're talking about the initial box office was not a lot, but home video was a ton.

• 1:06:44Chris Winterbauer?

  Home video rentals. And I directed this little movie, Moonshot, that I've made it, I'm not going to share the numbers, I've been happily surprised by how much I have been, I have received as residuals on video rentals. It's all that I'll share there. And that's, and again, because it's the DGA and my contract is protected and they have to pay me, you know, and that's why we have these protections in place.

• 1:07:07Lizzie Bassett?

  Hey, go out and rent Moonshot. Rent Worm.

• 1:07:10Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Lizzie Bassett?

  To quote Rob Reiner in The Guardian, quote, "Fair reward for artistic endeavor has long been raised by those on the wrong end of the equation. What makes this case so egregious is the prolonged and deliberate concealment of profit and the purposeful manipulation of revenue allocation between various Vivendi subsidiaries to the detriment of creative talent behind the band and film. Such anti-competitive practices need to be exposed. I am hoping this lawsuit goes to 11." You know what, Chris? It did go to 11. They settled in 2020, and I believe they settled with Universal Music Group about the soundtrack a year earlier. But most importantly, the rights to characters, trademarks and associated rights are now owned by Authorized Spinal Tap LLC, aka Rob Reiner, Christopher Guest, Harry Shearer and Michael McKean.

• 1:07:56Lizzie Bassett?

  According to Shearer, David St. Hubbins, Nigel Tufnell and Derek Smalls were unavailable for comment.

• 1:08:03Chris Winterbauer?

  It's very good.

• 1:08:04Lizzie Bassett?

  They got it.

• 1:08:05Chris Winterbauer?

  I'm thrilled that they got it.

• 1:08:06Lizzie Bassett?

  I am too. What a happy ending. And also, I think a good reminder for all of us that if you can retain ownership. I know that's easier said than done and very hard in a situation like this where they were desperate to get this made. But.

• 1:08:22Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah. I think if anybody believes enough in your idea to want to be a part of it, assume they'll still want to be a part of it, even if you don't give it up.

• 1:08:31Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:32Chris Winterbauer?

  Or that you can find somebody else who will. I have a friend who's pitching a TV show right now. And I don't want to give out any details other than they have been working. There's a sales agent who has contacted them saying, basically, I have a major streamer interested. Like, I have this person who, and I'm, you have to sign with me, and then I will connect you. No. I'm sorry, sir. Go fuck yourself.

• 1:09:00Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:00Chris Winterbauer?

  It is, it's ridiculous. There are plenty of people in this business who just want to make good things and will do it in an ethical way. And you will find those people, you know, hold out if you can.

• 1:09:12Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 1:09:13Chris Winterbauer?

  The people who make the thing should participate in the rewards of said thing.

• 1:09:18Lizzie Bassett?

  That's right. All right, Chris, what went right?

• 1:09:22Chris Winterbauer?

  I mean, so many things. But I, I'm gonna have to give it to the collective decision not to wink. I, we mentioned Walk Hard. I love Walk Hard. I think Walk Hard, I can't believe it bombed when it came out.

• 1:09:41Lizzie Bassett?

  I can't either. It's honestly one of my favorite movies.

• 1:09:44Chris Winterbauer?

  It's so funny. But it winks heavily at the audience. I mean, his brother gets sliced in half with a sword in the opening of the film. Yeah, exactly.

• 1:09:54Lizzie Bassett?

  I'm cut in half real bad.

• 1:09:58Chris Winterbauer?

  It's so good. Another one. Pop Star Never Stop, Never Stopping doesn't wink quite as hard, but it winks pretty hard as you have, you know, Adam Levine grinding with a hologram of himself in the first five minutes, which is very funny. But again, both do wink, I think, because they felt like they needed to wink to clue the audience in. And because this movie doesn't wink, when Nigel Tufnell comes back, right, to play the show at the end.

• 1:10:30Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes.

• 1:10:31Chris Winterbauer?

  It's actually kind of emotional.

• 1:10:32Lizzie Bassett?

  I know.

• 1:10:33Chris Winterbauer?

  It's actually really good. And when he says to McKean, you know, play a good show, and he's genuine, because above all else, they care about the music, it works. It works on an emotional level that wouldn't work if they winked, I don't think, or it wouldn't work as well. So kudos to them, kudos to everybody involved for just bringing it and not ever breaking. Because, you know, it is, they do it in the style of Curb Your Enthusiasm, but in Curb, you can feel that they're, they're on the edge of breaking or the edge of absurdity, you know what I mean, tearing the reality. And it's, it's really funny, but it's not emotional. And this movie is very emotional to me.

• 1:11:08Lizzie Bassett?

  I agree. I think they set out to make, like, they didn't set out to make a mockumentary. They set out to make a really good rock documentary about

• 1:11:17Chris Winterbauer?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:18Lizzie Bassett?

  the stupidest band they possibly could. And that's exactly what they did. And it's perfect.

• 1:11:22Chris Winterbauer?

  It's great.

• 1:11:23Lizzie Bassett?

  This movie is perfect. I love it so much. I love it more after learning about it. I think, I think I have to give my what went right to, honestly, Norman Lear. As we discussed a few minutes ago, it's not often that that kind of trust is placed in a creator. And I just love that story about Rob Reiner going in and so passionately pitching this thing, screaming at all the executives, and then Norman Lear just being like, I'm not going to tell him he can't make this, are you? Like, let him do it. Let's see what happens. And I'm so glad he did, because of course, we got one of the greatest movies of all time, I think, certainly one of the funniest, and definitely one of my favorites. So that wraps up Spinal Tap.

• 1:12:09Lizzie Bassett?

  What a fun one.

• 1:12:10Chris Winterbauer?

  What a fun one. Lizzie, do you want to say what we have coming next week? Do you want me to say what we have coming next week?

• 1:12:17Lizzie Bassett?

  I can say what we have coming next week. We have a much requested movie that was a box office hit, but that I believe an awful lot went wrong on. And that is Back to the Future.

• 1:12:30Chris Winterbauer?

  That's right, Lizzie. Quite a bit did go wrong, but all is well in due time. And time will be a big theme as we discuss Back to the Future. I'm very excited. It's a well-trod history, but one that I think we've come up with a fun way to tell that I hope you guys enjoy. If you are enjoying this podcast, there are five easy ways to support us. Number one, rating and review. Leave us a rating and review on whatever podcatcher you're listening to us on. Number two, hit subscribe or follow on that podcatcher. So our episodes drop into that feed on Monday at midnight and you can wake up in the middle of the night and listen to it and then tell everybody about it. Number three, we're doing a live show.

• 1:13:11Lizzie Bassett?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:11Chris Winterbauer?

  That's right. We are going to be in New York at the Caveat Theater in Manhattan on October 8th and 9th at 9:00 PM. If you would like to come and see us on October 8th and 9th at 9:00 PM, 2025, that is, at the Caveat Theater in Manhattan, head to cheerfulearful.podlifeevents.com, scroll down, click on either of those dates, you'll see our logo and you can buy a ticket. I don't know why Lizzie's laughing at me.

• 1:13:35Lizzie Bassett?

  I'm laughing because it's hard to explain, but you all can do it. I have faith in you.

• 1:13:39Chris Winterbauer?

  It is, you are going to get lost like Spinal Tap in the basement of a venue.

• 1:13:44Lizzie Bassett?

  Yes, you are. But you will come out on stage.

• 1:13:46Chris Winterbauer?

  There's a little jog, you go 30 feet, you turn left. Yeah. CheerfulEarful.podlifeevents.com. Scroll down to our dates. We promise, we are not trying to do like a phishing scam and steal your information. The tickets are $16. We will be covering Deep Impact and Armageddon, both films on both nights. It's the same show both nights. Pick whichever one is more convenient for you. It's our first double feature, double header versus films. We'll see if this format works. It's gonna be exciting.

• 1:14:14Lizzie Bassett?

  We're very excited. And of course, in addition to all of that, you can also support us on Patreon. For $1, you get the right to vote. You get to join the community. You get to see what's going on over there. For $5, you get access to an ad-free RSS feed. You also get some occasional musings from our very own Christopher Ranjerbeer.

• 1:14:35Lizzie Bassett?

  For fifty dollars, you can get a shout out from Nigel Tufnell, Derek Smalls, and David St. Hubbins, just like this.

• 1:14:47Speaker 15

  Angeline Renee Cook, Polly Ho Yin, Evan Downey, Amy Elgashlogger McCoy. You're really trying me with that middle name, Amy. You're really turning me about with that one. Nathan Centeno, Jewelry Hillpiper, Slipknots9, Kay Kanaba, James McAvoy, Cameron Smith, Suzanne Johnson, Suzanne goes to eleven, Ben Scheindeman, Scary Carey, The Provost Family, the O's sound like O's, no way to do that one in a British accent, I don't think, sorry guys.

• 1:15:29Speaker 15

  Galen and Miguel, The Broken Glass Kids, David Friskalanti, Adam Moffett, Film It Yourself. Why you gotta Film It Yourself, eh? Why can't you have a Marty De Bergy follow you around like we do? Chris Zucker, Kate Elrigton, M Zodiac, thank you, by the way, for writing in to tell us we've been pronouncing your name like absolute fucking morons. So if we're pronouncing your name wrong, please email us, like M Zodiac did, and tell us, okay?

• 1:16:05Speaker 15

  C Grace P, Jen Mastromorino, Christopher Elner, Blaze Ambrose, Jerome Wilkinson, Royal Jer, Lance Stater, Nate the Knife, Lenna, Half Greyhound, Why Not Full Greyhound, Brittany Morris, Darren and Dale Conkling, Jake Killin, Matthew Jacobson, Grace Potter, Owen Singleton, J.J. Rapido, Scott Gerwin, Sadie, Just Sadie, Why Are You Alone, Sadie, Brian Donahue, Adrian

• 1:16:42Speaker 15

  Penkorea, Chris Liu, Kathleen Olson, Hello Cleveland Brook, Leah Bowman, Steve Winterbauer, Don Schible, Rosemary Southwood, Tom Kristen.

• 1:16:56Lizzie Bassett?

  Jason Frankel, Simon Chai-Nani, Marco McGrath, Lan Relad, and Lydia Howes. Thank you all so much for your support. I really apologize for my British accent. I'm aware that it's not good, but boy, do we appreciate you all supporting us every single month. As Chris mentioned, you don't have to pay $50 a month like these amazing people. You don't have to be as cool as them to support us. We have other tiers. And as part of those tiers, we do some bonus episodes. We recently just dropped our Deep Cuts episode. We're going to try and do one of those a month, and that will include a mailbag where we will answer questions from you. So if you would like your questions

• 1:17:38Lizzie Bassett?

  answered, you can reach out to us at [email protected]. You can reach out to us through our website. You can DM us on Instagram. There's lots of ways to get ahold of us. Till next time. Bye.

• 1:17:53Speaker 02

  Go to patreon.com/whatwentwrongpodcast to support What Went Wrong and check out our website at whatwentwrongpod.com. What Went Wrong is a Sat Boom podcast, presented by Lizzie Bassett and Chris Winterbauer. Editing and music by David Bowman. Research for this episode provided by Jesse Winterbauer.