#2367 - Jesse Welles

Jesse Welles is a singer-songwriter. Look for his new album, "Devil's Den," on August 22. www.wellesmusic.com Get a free welcome kit with your first subscription of AG1 at https://drinkag1.com/joerogan Try ZipRecruiter FOR FREE at https://ziprecruiter.com/rogan Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Cheers to you.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Nice to meet you, man.

• 0:15Speaker 01

  Good to meet you.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  I've enjoyed your songs.

• 0:21Joe Rogan?

  How did you, uh... Well, first of all, how long you been doing music?

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Um, I think most of my life, you know?

• 0:31Joe Rogan?

  Did you grow up in a musical family, or is it just something you picked up on your own?

• 0:34Speaker 01

  No, I... Everyone worked and made art when they weren't working.

• 0:43Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 0:44Speaker 01

  But, uh, no music, really. But that... I liked... I like music.

• 0:50Joe Rogan?

  Like, what kind of art did your family do?

• 0:52Speaker 01

  Like, my mom would always paint. She put, like, murals on the walls of the house and stuff. And my old man's a mechanic.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  And he would be tinkering around, making all sorts of fun stuff, usually with his welder and whatnot. So I... they were... I felt like they were artistic folks, you know? Um, but they didn't... they didn't necessarily do music. You know, they're smarter than that.

• 1:22Joe Rogan?

  And so, um, I only know of you from the videos that you put up on Instagram. And specifically, I think it was the United Healthcare guy was the first one.

• 1:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30Joe Rogan?

  Right? Which was really good, dude. It's... the lyrics, and the timing of it all, you captured the moment. And that song, to me, was like, "Yeah, that's what the fuck is going on."

• 1:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45Joe Rogan?

  "That's what's really going on. They don't give a shit about you, and they're just trying to make money."

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:49Joe Rogan?

  And...

• 1:51Joe Rogan?

  That's why when this guy got shot, there was this reaction from people.

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55Joe Rogan?

  Which is very rare when someone gets assassinated when people celebrate.

• 1:58Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59Joe Rogan?

  When someone's not like a mass murderer or something.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  It was bizarre.

• 2:02Joe Rogan?

  It was bizarre.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  It's, it's, I mean, it must mean something is, if people are celebrating.

• 2:08Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:08Speaker 01

  Somebody's death.

• 2:09Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Something is wrong.

• 2:11Joe Rogan?

  And all kind, across both sides of the aisle, it's not a political thing, it is a, a human thing. They're like, these people, they take your fucking money, you pay them, and then when something comes up, you don't get covered.

• 2:23Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:24Joe Rogan?

  And there doesn't seem to be any repercussions, and to fight it, you have to go to court, and you usually don't have the money to go to court. And they have a lot of fucking money.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:33Joe Rogan?

  And they, you know, have been doing this for a long time, and now they're using AI to make sure that they pay less, so they're using AI to approve cases. And the, the numbers are even lower than they were before, so United Healthcare always had a lower number than industry standard, right?

• 2:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:51Joe Rogan?

  Now it's even, with, with AI, they're gonna be able to chop it down to even lower, it's like, what, at what point in time does this become against the law? Like, at what point in time is this like, it's a con game? Like, you're paying, you're thinking you're gonna get covered, and they're like, nah.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  The system would have to be revolution, I, I mean, you can't have health for, for profit at that point. You'd have to socialize the, the medicine at some point.

• 3:17Joe Rogan?

  Which I, I agree with, up until a point, the problem is human nature. And like, if you, like, if you hurt your shoulder, and you wanna get, you need to get an operation on your shoulder, you wanna go to a guy who does the Lakers, you know what I mean?

• 3:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:30Joe Rogan?

  You wanna go to a guy who is like, this motherfucker is the cream of the crop, he is dialed in, he's been doing this forever, he's super focused and motivated, and he drives a fucking Mercedes, right? The reason why he drives a Mercedes, he makes a lot of money doing what he's doing.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:44Joe Rogan?

  You don't want someone to not feel appreciated, not have the motivation to continue, to, continue to get really great at their craft. Like, there's, there's a, a thing with just human beings. There's a financial motivation that people have, cause it's a quantitative thing, it's a, you could see it on a ledger, you know that you're making more money because you're doing this, and you're working harder, and you're getting this

• 4:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:08Joe Rogan?

  reward, whether or not it makes sense or not. As soon as you eliminate that and everybody gets the same amount of money and then you you lose all the killers. You lose all the-

• 4:17Speaker 01

  No, all I mean is that you just don't want to have to go to an urgent care and it costs $500 to get a pack of antibiotics.

• 4:23Joe Rogan?

  100%. Well, that's a giant scam.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  So, and but that's that's a scam that so many folks are stuck in, you know?

• 4:30Joe Rogan?

  That's only part of the scam. You know, the healthcare scam, it goes so deep. There's so many different layers to this fucking horrible den of vampires.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 4:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, because it's whenever you can make profit off of people and you're you're involved in a corporation and then the corporation has an interest for it's stockholders want more money every year. They want more money every quarter. So that's what they try to do. That's their focus. And when you're doing that with people's lies and people's health, like that, that should be illegal. That's where it gets fucked.

• 5:07Speaker 01

  I suppose that's why folks were, you know, it was it was upsetting to see, you know, I felt like I actually had kind of an unpopular opinion about it and that why, you know, why are we celebrating somebody's death? That seems far out. To celebrate the murder of somebody with a gun?

• 5:30Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, I believe unrelated to him and his case.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Like, I mean, how how far out is that? And so I've I didn't want, you know, I'd I make I make these tunes, but that one in particular, I was like, how do I even, how do I address this? What do you even say? So that I-

• 5:55Joe Rogan?

  So how do you approach something like that? Do you sit down with a pad and pen or do you start writing? Like, how do you, how do you, do you start singing?

• 6:00Speaker 01

  Step one is avoid the work. So I went, I went for, you know, some long jogs. I wrote a song about- Amazon instead. Put up like Amazon as Santa Claus and I kept sitting there and it kept getting, you know, the situation was snowballing with the United Healthcare. Thing and I was like, okay, you got it right. And at that point, it's, it's a research project, you know, let's write, let's write 2,000 words so that we can have 300 to sing. And boil down the essence of the issue. And make it rhyme.

• 6:44Speaker 01

  And, uh, and put a jolly tune behind it. That's really, that's, that's kind of how that, that goes about.

• 6:50Joe Rogan?

  That sounds like super similar to stand-up comedy.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think.

• 6:54Joe Rogan?

  You boil it down.

• 6:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, get every, and, and you don't. It's just punchlines, so find the punchline of everything. Find the punchline of everything. I never had the attention span to tell too much of a story or anything like that, so I like, I, I like just keeping it in punchlines. So I always like, you know, Mitch Hedberg and, and Steven Wright. We're so good at, we're so good at that, just come out and lay out a bunch of punchlines immediately. If one doesn't land, on to the next one.

• 7:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, they, their whole, that was the daunting thing about their act, which is so impressive, is that all, it's all non-sequiturs. So every subject is new. Every time they open their mouth, it's a new subject.

• 7:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:40Joe Rogan?

  Which is kind of crazy. It's a crazy way to do comedy.

• 7:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:43Joe Rogan?

  But when you're an absurdist, it's probably the best way, because it's an absurd way to think. Right? You're just going from one subject to the next in each minute burst. You know? Somebody asked me if I want a frozen banana and I said, no, but I want a regular banana later, so yes.

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:02Joe Rogan?

  That's like such a ridiculous joke. I used to love listening to him in particular when I was in traffic. Because it would like chill me out. Like if I was headed to the airport in LA and it was just fucking clusterfuck on the highway, I would just throw on some Mitch Hedberg and just start giggling. It was just silly, you know?

• 8:22Speaker 01

  He's, he's one of the coolest.

• 8:24Joe Rogan?

  He was awesome. He was awesome. He was awesome. Um, let's play that song. Jamie, can you find that one? The United Healthcare song? I want to play it. So people know what we're talking about, so people.

• 8:35Speaker 03

  And you paid for it all, though you may be unaware. You paid for the paper, you paid for the phone, you paid for everything they need to deny you what you're owed. There ain't no you in United Health, there ain't no me in the company. There ain't no us in the private trust, there's hardly humans in humanity. Now the procedure that you're needing ain't the cost effective rooting. Only 2% of people end up winning a dispute. So if you get sick, pray to God for health, 'cause your doctor's gotta pray to United Health. Way back in 787, Mr. Richard T. Burke started buying HMOs, putting federal grants to work. Made 50 billion buckaroos. Last year, the Warren Buffett of health, the Jeff Bezos of fear.

• 9:20Speaker 03

  Now CEOs come and go, and one just went. The ingredient you got, bake the cake you get. But if you get sick, cross your fingers for luck, 'cause old Richard T. Burke ain't giving a buck. Commoditized health monopolized fraud. Here's the doctors we own and the research we bought. They own the pharmacies and a lot of the meds. They should start buying graves to sell us when we're all dead. There ain't no you in United Health, there ain't no me in the company. There ain't no us in the private trust, there's hardly humans in humanity. There's hardly humans in humanity.

• 9:59Joe Rogan?

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• 11:02Joe Rogan?

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• 11:47Joe Rogan?

  Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month with promo code ROGEN. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan features and network management details. This episode is brought to you by The Mosquito Bowl. Here's a story that's pretty incredible. After Pearl Harbor, four of the best college football players in America walk away from promising NFL careers to enlist in the Marines and fight in World War II. And the craziest part? It's a true story. These guys had their whole lives ahead of them, but traded the glory of the gridiron for the brutal reality of combat, where the stakes were life and death. Directed by Peter Berg, the guy behind Friday Night Lights,

• 12:31Joe Rogan?

  and starring Nicholas Galitzine, Bill Skarsgård, Ray Nicholson, and Tom Francis. The Mosquito Bowl, now playing in theaters. Fuck yeah, dude. That's a great song. That's a great song. And it's interesting to me how few people are doing what you're doing. I don't know of anyone else. I'm sure there probably is a few people out there that I missed, but I don't know of anybody else who takes things that are in the zeitgeist, these big stories that come up, and turns them into a catchy tune, and does it in a way where you laid out, you know, really the problem and the whole thing, like you said, in punchlines.

• 13:12Speaker 01

  Yeah. You know, there's a lot of folks doing it right now, and more every day. But there was, I mean, there's a precedent for that kind of work.

• 13:27Speaker 01

  Especially as far as like Woody, Woody Guthrie was really the, I was reading, I was reading a Woody Guthrie biography.

• 13:39Speaker 01

  And uh, my, my old man was in the hospital. He had just had a heart attack and we didn't, we didn't know like what way it was gonna go or whatever. Anyway, I don't know, just seeing him all hooked up to that stuff and, and thinking if he were, if, if he died.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  I, I've hardly, I've hardly had any time to even know him. He's hardly had any time to know anything. We don't get very long down here and I'm reading this, this Woody Guthrie biography and I was just like, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do, I'm gonna do this. I, you know, I'm gonna sing the, sing the news.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  Cause that, that's really what, what Woody was kinda, was kinda doing in his day. Because there was, there's folk music around him and he'd team up with Pete Seeger and he's on radio programs and he could've played, he had, he had the choice. He could've played standards, he could've played country western music and stuff like that. But he liked making folks laugh and he liked telling it how it was. I like both those things.

• 14:44Joe Rogan?

  I saw Woody Guthrie live when I was a little kid in San Francisco.

• 14:48Speaker 01

  Arlo or Woody?

• 14:50Joe Rogan?

  I think Woody. Which one was alive back then? Was it Arlo? Yeah, Woody died. Okay, so it must've been Arlo. So it was nineteen, let me guess the year. I was eleven?

• 15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:02Joe Rogan?

  So maybe, yeah.

• 15:06Joe Rogan?

  Ten or eleven?

• 15:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:08Joe Rogan?

  No, it was San Francisco, so it had to be, I, I lived there until I was eleven, so it was probably around nine or ten, now that I think about it. But yeah, he performed live. God, I wish I could remember more of it.

• 15:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I mean, Arlo, Arlo played, Arlo played this kinda, he went a little more surreal with it, which is super groovy, but.

• 15:29Speaker 01

  He carried, you know, he carried on the torch for his old man.

• 15:31Joe Rogan?

  So would he died in what year? Sixty seven.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, sixty seven. He got the, he got a Huntington's disease and was laid up in a home for quite a while. He lost the ability to speak and everything.

• 15:43Joe Rogan?

  What is Huntington's disease?

• 15:44Speaker 01

  A rare genetic disorder. I don't really know what it does, other than.

• 15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, he was, he was pretty young.

• 15:52Joe Rogan?

  Breakdown of nerve cells in the brain.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:54Joe Rogan?

  His mother also suffered from the same illness.

• 15:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, so.

• 15:58Joe Rogan?

  What causes that?

• 16:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, why do I have a feeling?

• 16:03Speaker 01

  Bad luck.

• 16:04Joe Rogan?

  Maybe not. Maybe, why do I have a feeling there's some environmental toxin involved?

• 16:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 16:10Joe Rogan?

  You know what I'm saying?

• 16:11Speaker 01

  He was sitting next to, he was in East Palestine.

• 16:14Joe Rogan?

  Pennsylvania? No way.

• 16:17Speaker 01

  No, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding.

• 16:18Joe Rogan?

  You're joking.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  But, I mean.

• 16:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, obviously, it's a different time, but there's so many parts of the country that have been polluted by industrial waste.

• 16:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 16:25Joe Rogan?

  There's so much horrible shit out there.

• 16:27Speaker 01

  I mean, maybe he was riding on trains and boxcars and stuff. There's no telling what they were hauling around and that sort of thing. But he, you know, he played the political tunes.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  He.

• 16:41Speaker 01

  He, he, I, I don't, and maybe he's a continuation of.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Of a longstanding human tradition of like bards going from town to town and singing the news. I don't know, maybe there was some medieval dude going around singing about the king, you know? And, I don't remember, maybe, maybe, maybe there was.

• 17:04Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 17:04Speaker 01

  Just because I don't, I, like, I don't know if it's a uniquely American tradition, but. When I do it, I like to, I get romantic about it and kind of think of it as uniquely American tradition. Because you got the freedom to do it.

• 17:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 17:18Speaker 01

  And no one's gunning me down in the, in the field there or anything, for anything I say, you know? So I get to. You know?

• 17:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's why I doubt what any, if anybody was ever doing anything the way you do it, when they were doing it about the king.

• 17:35Speaker 01

  The knights, the knights go hunt him down or something.

• 17:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe a few guys tried, but I bet they killed him.

• 17:42Speaker 01

  Or may- maybe you hired, you co-opted the bard, you turned him into your fool, your jester. Or whatever. And then he sang songs for you about how fat the neighbor king was.

• 17:54Joe Rogan?

  I think that's a different guy. I think you're dealing with a different guy. The guy who is the jester, that's the fucking vampire familiar. You know, you know, like in Blade, the guys will get close to the vampires. Cause they want, eventually one day want to be a vampire. They promised it.

• 18:11Speaker 01

  Who was in Lord of the Rings, who was like theodens dude, worm tongue or something? Anyway.

• 18:19Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember. I don't remember.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  People very close?

• 18:23Joe Rogan?

  But it's, there's, that's always the Dracula story. There's always a familiar. There's always a human that does the bidding of the vampire.

• 18:32Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that guy. Yeah, perfect. Exactly. Yeah. Same kind of guy. Fucking creep with a questionable hard drive.

• 18:41Speaker 01

  Did he, was he in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest?

• 18:46Joe Rogan?

  Was he? God, that seems weird.

• 18:47Speaker 01

  Like Billy Babbitt?

• 18:49Joe Rogan?

  He would be so old.

• 18:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:51Joe Rogan?

  One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest was-

• 18:53Speaker 01

  Was it sixty-seven or something? That was a long time ago. I mean, but was it?

• 18:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that guy's been in everything. That's him now?

• 19:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

• 19:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:05Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy? Time is such a motherfucker.

• 19:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:11Joe Rogan?

  He was in One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Far out.

• 19:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow.

• 19:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:16Joe Rogan?

  Seventy-five. That's a great fucking movie, too.

• 19:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:20Joe Rogan?

  That's an eye-opening movie about healthcare, speaking of which.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, in an era, in an era of sanatoriums, you know, and stuff where you-

• 19:29Joe Rogan?

  Right. And then people glorify that. It's like, we need more mental health institutes. That's why there's so many homeless people on the street and like, have you ever been?

• 19:41Joe Rogan?

  We definitely need more mental health. We 100% those people need care, but do they need the kind of care that they were getting? Before they were released on the street when they were giving people electroshock therapy and fucking cooking their brains?

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Those, at least whatever's going on in one floor of the Cookies Nest is essentially a prison.

• 19:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 19:58Speaker 01

  A prison with electroshock therapy.

• 20:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah. Yeah, and lobotomies. Until like 67.

• 20:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:06Joe Rogan?

  They were just cooking people's brains with a wand, getting in there and scrambling up your brain.

• 20:12Speaker 01

  It's, it's so.

• 20:13Joe Rogan?

  Dude, they did lobotomies for decades.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:16Joe Rogan?

  Decades. Until enough people had their loved ones turned into zombies. That they were like, hey, maybe we should probably fucking stop that.

• 20:24Speaker 01

  Didn't they lobotomize Kennedy?

• 20:28Joe Rogan?

  Yep. Apparently, she was just wild.

• 20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:32Joe Rogan?

  That's all it was. First of all.

• 20:34Speaker 01

  So I would have been lobotomized.

• 20:37Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if you, yeah, probably. Yeah, I mean, first of all, the men were wild. She was wild sexually. Is that part of the accusation that she was very promiscuous? They had a problem with her and they wanted her to calm down, and so they fucking scrambled her brains. And apparently, she became non-functional. Like, they really kinda, they, you know, they dialed it up to 10.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  So.

• 20:58Joe Rogan?

  And that was it for her. This is part of the show where I talk about AG1, which I've done for years, and usually I like to talk about routine. And don't get me wrong, because routine is super important, and AG1 is exactly the kind of daily, easy routine that can help you feel healthy and help you get the nutrients that your body needs. But even if you love a routine, isn't it nice to switch it up a little? Well, here we go. After 15 years of the original, AG1 has introduced three new flavors. Tropical, Berry, and Citrus. It's still daily, it's still a routine, but it's no longer one flavor fits all. And honestly, the best part is that's the only thing that's changed. Besides new flavors, we're talking about the same science, the same 75-plus ingredients, and the same exact benefits.

• 21:42Joe Rogan?

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• 22:22Joe Rogan?

  When Kennedy was 23, doctors told her father that lobotomy would help calm her mood swings and stop her occasional violent outbursts.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  23.

• 22:30Joe Rogan?

  So Joe Senior decided, 23, decided Rosemary should have a lobotomy. However, he did not inform his wife, oh my God, until after the procedure was completed. The procedure took place, November 1941, Sins of the Father in the book, 1996 biography. James W. Watts, who carried out the procedure with Walter Freeman, both of George Washington University's School of Medicine and Health Sciences, described to Kessler as follows. "After Rosemary was mildly sedated, we went through the top of her head," Dr. Watts recalled. "I think she was awake. She had a mild tranquilizer. I made a surgical incision in the brain through the skull. It was near the front. It was on both sides. We just made a small

• 23:11Joe Rogan?

  incision, no more than an inch. The instruments Dr. Watts used looked like a butter knife. He swung it up and down to cut brain tissue."

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:20Joe Rogan?

  "We put an instrument inside," he said, as Dr. Watts cut. Dr. Freeman asked Rosemary some questions. For example, he asked her to recite the Lord's Prayer, or sing "God Bless America," or to count backward. We made an estimate on how far to cut based on how she responded. When Rosemary became, began to become incoherent, they stopped."

• 23:40Speaker 01

  What a tragedy.

• 23:43Speaker 01

  Holy cow.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  Scroll back up. Go back up. Scroll up, so I can hear it.

• 23:51Speaker 01

  How many folks were getting these?

• 23:53Joe Rogan?

  The nuns of the covenant thought that Rosemary might become involved with sexual partners, and that she could contact a sexually transmitted disease, or become pregnant. Her occasionally erratic behavior frustrated her parents. So she got expelled from summer camp, and she was staying, it says, and staying only for a few months at a Philadelphia boarding school. Kennedy was sent to a convent school in Washington DC. Kennedy began sneaking out of the convent school at night. The nuns in the convent thought that she might be involved with sexual partners, and that she might get an STD, or become pregnant. And so then, they decided to give her a fucking lobotomy. Imagine that. You, you send a young, healthy girl to a convent,

• 24:38Joe Rogan?

  with a bunch of fucking creepy nuns, and she just like, breaks out in the middle of the night, like go to hang out with her friends, or go meet up with a guy, or fucking something.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:47Joe Rogan?

  And so they go, "Well, the solution to this, is cut her brain,

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:50Joe Rogan?

  and have her talk until she can't talk anymore, and then we know when to stop cutting."

• 24:54Speaker 01

  That's insane.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  Meanwhile, Kennedy's got his...

• 24:58Joe Rogan?

  That wasn't even a...

• 24:59Speaker 01

  He's running his excrements.

• 25:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, they all were. The father was. Like, there's... I don't know whether it's true, or not true, because we used to say it, and then, there's been things disputing it, but of course, who knows how much money is involved in this, in the first place? But supposedly, Kennedy Senior was involved in illegal liquor, during the time where there was prohibition in this country.

• 25:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I thought he was a mobster.

• 25:24Joe Rogan?

  He definitely knew some people, which was what helped his son win Illinois.

• 25:29Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. It's just like, I don't know what's true, and what's not true, in terms of him being a moonshine runner,

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 25:36Joe Rogan?

  but it tracks. You know, and the whole family.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  Seems like an incredibly lucrative business to get into during prohibition. I don't know who, who wouldn't be running liquor.

• 25:46Joe Rogan?

  Especially when you can control the police. You know, especially when you had money, and you were involved, and you had your foot dipped in all sorts of organized crime, and, you know. Then you had souped up NASCAR cars, that they were using to drive... That's where NASCAR comes from.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I guess that's the roots of... Yeah.

• 26:02Joe Rogan?

  Running from the cops.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  If it weren't for Joe, we wouldn't have had, wouldn't have had Dale.

• 26:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, right? Wouldn't have had the, the loop. Yeah, it's, um... It's just a a crazy practice that they did for a long, long time just to get rid of people that were a problem.

• 26:21Speaker 01

  So what's the modern lobotomy? What are we doing right now that we're gonna read on Wiki? Or, you know, whatever.

• 26:29Joe Rogan?

  There's probably quite a few of them.

• 26:31Speaker 01

  Fifteen.

• 26:31Joe Rogan?

  There's probably quite a few of them.

• 26:32Speaker 01

  Holy cow.

• 26:34Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure gender transitions for children. I'm sure that's gonna be on that list.

• 26:38Speaker 01

  Or taking. I don't know, like, like, then, like prescribing benzos and stuff.

• 26:45Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's gonna be on that list for sure.

• 26:47Speaker 01

  That's just like a, like a chemical lobotomy?

• 26:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, Benzo doesn't give you a chemical lobotomy, but it does make you one hundred percent hooked on it.

• 26:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, or it's just the different, the stress you would undergo getting out of the addiction, you might never. You might never come, come back fully or get your life all the way back after an addiction like that.

• 27:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, I know several people that have had that problem and it is a real struggle.

• 27:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 27:15Joe Rogan?

  Like Jordan Peterson has publicly talked about it. It took him over a year to recover physically. Just from being addicted.

• 27:22Speaker 01

  And that's actually going to rehabs and stuff like that. There's a lot of folks, most folks, they ain't going.

• 27:28Joe Rogan?

  They don't have the money.

• 27:29Speaker 01

  Nowhere. You know, they get off it and then drink themselves to death or.

• 27:32Joe Rogan?

  Or do cocaine or do something else.

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Find something else.

• 27:36Joe Rogan?

  You know, or the psychiatrist puts you on some new kind of pills to satisfy whatever the fuck was wrong with you in the first place.

• 27:42Speaker 01

  You can get off one and hop over to the other.

• 27:44Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh, yeah.

• 27:46Speaker 01

  Go back and forth and.

• 27:47Joe Rogan?

  It's a real problem. And when someone gets on that ride, it's hard to get off. It's hard to get off the take this pill to fix it ride.

• 27:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 27:54Joe Rogan?

  That ride is a very popular ride.

• 27:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I mean.

• 28:01Speaker 01

  Folks like having a, having a doctor tell them it's alright, you know, I guess it's like a.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  It's like if they get it, they're an authority figure told them it's all good to take this pill, you know?

• 28:17Joe Rogan?

  Not only that, especially with benzos, especially in the early days. Nobody even told them that it was almost impossible to get off of.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  I mean, could a patient kind of figure that out pretty quick?

• 28:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, they don't because they keep taking it, right? You keep taking it because you're addicted to it.

• 28:35Speaker 01

  If you forget, forget a dose, you start feeling those withdrawals come in, you know?

• 28:41Joe Rogan?

  Well, apparently with, uh, find this out, this is true. Apparently, one of the things about benzodiazepine is that it alleviates anxiety, but if you stop taking it, your anxiety maybe even elevates past where it was before you first took it.

• 28:59Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 28:59Joe Rogan?

  So there's like a slingshot effect.

• 29:01Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. When you get off of anything, all sorts of stuff rattles loose in your head, man.

• 29:06Joe Rogan?

  For sure, for sure.

• 29:08Speaker 01

  And everything gets, everything gets worse for a period of time.

• 29:11Joe Rogan?

  But what I was gonna get at is it's one of the few where you could die if you get off of it.

• 29:17Speaker 01

  Right. It's like that and alcohol. Those are like the two things, right?

• 29:20Joe Rogan?

  So here it is. During early withdrawal, an individual may experience a return of anxiety and insomnia symptoms as the brain rebounds without the drugs. But it doesn't say a rebound. How long does it last? Many people stop taking these medications and experience increased anxiety or restlessness referred to as rebound anxiety. Rebound effects from benzo withdrawal such as anxiety or insomnia typically last two to three days. I don't think that's true. I don't think that's true.

• 29:50Speaker 01

  The insomnia itself is is enough to cause all sorts of different.

• 29:55Joe Rogan?

  Uh, yeah. How long does?

• 29:57Speaker 01

  You get a benzo belly.

• 29:58Joe Rogan?

  What is that? Benzo belly, um, can depend, is it like a diarrhea? Such as the type of dose of benzo, what does it mean? Some people experience. What was that? What does it say it is? Benzo belly, what to know?

• 30:14Speaker 01

  Put that on.

• 30:15Joe Rogan?

  Common side of, oh, cramps? Oh, well, you're

• 30:19Speaker 01

  Add that to the

• 30:20Joe Rogan?

  Fucking poisoning your insides.

• 30:21Speaker 01

  To the Pepto list.

• 30:22Joe Rogan?

  Your body's like, what are you doing? Oh, look at, you could get nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, abdominal pain, bloating, indigestion, you know how they do that at the end of the commercial?

• 30:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:30Joe Rogan?

  Indigestion, loss of appetite, constipation, weight loss. Bloody diarrhea, you might want to die. That's the craziest ones, when the side effects of antidepressants are suicide.

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:43Joe Rogan?

  There ain't no you in United.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  They make, they make, folks are making money.

• 30:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 01

  Keep the money rolling in.

• 30:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, as long as they keep mushrooms illegal. There's a lot of things that could be fixed in a, in a very natural way that people have been doing for thousands of years.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:02Joe Rogan?

  That you can't do. At least in Texas, they opened up IbaGain again.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 31:07Joe Rogan?

  So that's new, where, you know, they're gonna do these, they've, they've done so far, these trials with soldiers and it's, it's super effective, man, especially for getting off drugs.

• 31:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:17Joe Rogan?

  Like, really, really, really effective, like eighty percent for one dose, and in the nineties for two dose. People just quit pills, quit everything, quit drinking, whatever's

• 31:27Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  Whatever's fucking with you.

• 31:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:30Joe Rogan?

  There's natural tools out there to figure out, like, people get in patterns, right? They get in these terrible behavior patterns and they don't know why. They don't know how to get out of them. They keep falling into them because they're like tightly grooved into the way you think.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:44Joe Rogan?

  And unless you can leave for a moment, the, the connection that you have to this existence where you're completely continually trapped by your patterns, unless you can leave and look at those patterns, you're just, you're just fighting against so much gravity and so much momentum.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 32:02Joe Rogan?

  And, and then whatever your, the life that you've chosen, the pa, you know, you're around the same people, you're, there's so many things that make it very difficult to really change your life, outside of escaping briefly and getting a look at it. From, you know, some

• 32:18Speaker 01

  So it's like IbaGain, like Like smooth out all the ruts?

• 32:23Joe Rogan?

  I began, I've never done it, so I can't really speak to this, but from the people that have done it, what they explain that does, first of all, it actually stops physical addiction somehow. They don't totally understand how it's doing this, but it stops physical addiction and sort of rewires the way your brain, and for lack of a better term, looks at addiction. It also is, it's not a drug that you could abuse recreationally. Apparently, it's not a fun time, and it's a 24-hour experience. And this 24-hour experience-

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Is it psychedelic?

• 32:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes. And this 24-hour experience is essentially a review of your life. And showing you, like, you remember this happened, and these guys beat you up after school, and then that sent you down this road, and then this is why you think about this and this. And it like lays out why you're in all these different fucked up patterns of your life.

• 33:18Speaker 01

  Do you have a, like, a spirit guide?

• 33:20Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. I don't know. I mean, I think it's-

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Like a regained council?

• 33:24Joe Rogan?

  You mean while you're doing it?

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:26Joe Rogan?

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They have centers. What is the place called in Mexico that, uh, former Republican governor Rick Perry is an advocate of this?

• 33:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:36Joe Rogan?

  And he went to that, is it Beyond? B-E-O-N-D? Um, they have to, they've, for the longest time, they've been doing these things down in Mexico because it's legal there.

• 33:46Speaker 01

  Right. Does Ayahuasca do something similar?

• 33:49Joe Rogan?

  Yes. There's, a lot of people go down to Costa Rica and do that. Or there's certain churches that have a religious exemption in America.

• 33:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 33:57Joe Rogan?

  Which is wild.

• 33:58Speaker 01

  What, what?

• 34:00Joe Rogan?

  You go to church and really meet Jesus?

• 34:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 34:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, for real, for real. Like, are you ready?

• 34:05Speaker 01

  Like New Mexico, you know, places like that.

• 34:09Joe Rogan?

  It's like, you know, somewhere where like, well, how many followers you got? You got 1400? Alright, well, don't get too big.

• 34:14Speaker 01

  I've been to a church in a couple basements, like-

• 34:16Joe Rogan?

  Really? Well, you know, the weird thing is if anybody wants to start a new church now, like, good luck, they'll crawl up your fucking ass with a microscope. Like, if you want to start a new church now, it better be a Christian church. Like, you better be following the same religions that the people have been following for thousands and thousands of years. Because if you try to cook up a new religion today, they will Waco you, son. They will fucking-

• 34:39Speaker 01

  Well, yeah.

• 34:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean-

• 34:44Joe Rogan?

  You get a good following.

• 34:45Speaker 01

  Religions, they get weirder and weir- I don't, like, in America, they get weirder and weirder kind of the more west we went, the more we manifest destiny.

• 34:55Joe Rogan?

  That's a good point.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Because like, you have like Puritan pilgrims land and, you know, in New England. And the weirdest of them move a little bit more west, or they just go to, the Quakers just go to like Nantucket, you know, to be on an island and be isolated, but, you know, eventually in about a hundred years, you've got Mormons.

• 35:19Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  You know? And then, give it another hundred something, then you got Scientology out in California.

• 35:27Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Right?

• 35:29Joe Rogan?

  Have you seen American Primeval?

• 35:30Speaker 01

  Uh-uh.

• 35:31Joe Rogan?

  The Netflix series?

• 35:32Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:33Joe Rogan?

  Really good, really good. And it's about, you know, the settling of the west, but a big part of it is the Mormons.

• 35:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 35:40Joe Rogan?

  And how fucking gangster the Mormons, we think of Mormons as being like, it's really sweet people, like, uh-uh.

• 35:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 35:46Joe Rogan?

  Not back then.

• 35:47Speaker 01

  No, no, no, no, nothing, nothing was in the west, man.

• 35:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:51Speaker 01

  It was, it was death and carn- like, I don't know, I imagine it like Blood Meridian, like McCarthy's, McCarthy's book, where basically, you know, like follows a story like this kid who goes on a scalping mission, you know, where their, their job is to go down into Guadalajara and then come up in through the states and they just, they scalp pretty much everyone they meet indiscriminately and then take those scalps back for dough, it's like, you know, for a bounty.

• 36:18Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy. How much is the scalp worth?

• 36:21Speaker 01

  I don't, I don't know.

• 36:23Joe Rogan?

  Imagine that, you just find some dude who's like, fucking, taking care of a lawn or something like that.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  I'd take that over a lobotomy. My scalp is.

• 36:34Joe Rogan?

  Some people lived.

• 36:35Speaker 01

  Grow back.

• 36:36Joe Rogan?

  There's these people that lived.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 36:38Joe Rogan?

  Which is really crazy.

• 36:39Speaker 01

  I've seen that picture, it's like someone had been.

• 36:40Joe Rogan?

  Guy had a top hat on over this giant.

• 36:43Speaker 01

  Wound.

• 36:44Joe Rogan?

  Wound over the top of his head, which, I wonder how long he lived, because he basically had like an open. Skull facing the earth.

• 36:53Speaker 01

  I guess you play dead while it's going down.

• 36:55Joe Rogan?

  Maybe they just let him live. I don't know, man. This episode is brought to you by ZipRecruiter. There is such a thing as having too many options to choose from. Like when you're scrolling on the TV trying to find something to watch. Or have you been to one of those ice cream shops where they have hundreds of different toppings to choose from? It's overwhelming. The same thing can happen when you're hiring and you get inundated with applications. Well, it's time to stop stressing and use ZipRecruiter instead. Their innovative resume database can help you find and connect with the best people for your role. Try it for free now at ziprecruiter.com/rogan.

• 37:35Joe Rogan?

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• 38:19Joe Rogan?

  ZipRecruiter, the smartest way to hire. Chihuahua's bounty program offered fortune seekers 150 to 200 Mexican pesos for each Apache, depending on age and sex. Men worth 50 pesos more than women and children, and children.

• 38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Today, that equates to about $8,200 per scalp.

• 38:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:41Joe Rogan?

  This is far more than most prospectors would ever make in the California goldfields. $8,000 per scalp. That's crazy.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 38:51Joe Rogan?

  How many people, just innocent people, that just happen to have dark hair got scalped?

• 38:57Speaker 01

  And... Oh, they would, like in in McCarthy's book at least, which it follows the Glanton gang. I'm pretty sure at times they kill some of their own gang.

• 39:07Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Uh, just because they were, they were dark haired.

• 39:10Joe Rogan?

  The most prolific of these operatives was an Irish American named James Kirker, who led a massacre of more than a hundred and fifty Apaches in eighteen forty six and ultimately killed at least three hundred and twenty Indians during his bounty hunting campaigns.

• 39:26Joe Rogan?

  Scalp trade, eight thousand two hundred dollars for scalps. Can you imagine like if you, if you have a lawless country, which is essentially what the Wild West was?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  What that was, yeah.

• 39:39Joe Rogan?

  And then you, you offer up eight thousand dollars every time you kill a person.

• 39:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:45Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, you can get rid of a big people people quick.

• 39:47Speaker 01

  And you're gonna have, the wildest of the wild are gonna go out there and tame that land, man.

• 39:52Joe Rogan?

  The craziest of the crazy.

• 39:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 39:54Joe Rogan?

  And that's essentially.

• 39:55Speaker 01

  Calls them, calls them out.

• 40:01Joe Rogan?

  Oof.

• 40:02Speaker 01

  And.

• 40:02Joe Rogan?

  And that wasn't that long ago, man.

• 40:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 40:04Joe Rogan?

  That's what's so crazy. You know, we're talking about a hundred and fifty years. Like, what is it, but how long ago was it? Not that long ago.

• 40:14Joe Rogan?

  In California, scalp warfare has eliminated nearly ninety percent of some tribal populations. Holy fuck, man.

• 40:23Speaker 01

  Were they doing that into the eighteen nineties?

• 40:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's crazy.

• 40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 40:30Joe Rogan?

  That's a hundred and thirty five years ago.

• 40:34Joe Rogan?

  How, how crazy is that?

• 40:38Speaker 01

  It's pretty wild.

• 40:39Joe Rogan?

  That's hard to believe.

• 40:41Speaker 01

  You, uh.

• 40:42Joe Rogan?

  Direct government support for bounty payouts? Whoa. Direct government support for bounty payouts with blunt calls for the extermination of tribes and mass murder of men, women, and children. Provides an important new perspective on the question of genocide across the long arc of Euro-American interaction with native communities. The Apache scalp that FBI agents seized in twenty twenty two is one of thousands, perhaps tens of thousands, that were taken, redeemed, displayed in rare cases like this one, preserved as a part of a long and gruesome history of scalp warfare. So.

• 41:19Joe Rogan?

  So it was in an auction house? That's how they found it?

• 41:24Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 41:26Joe Rogan?

  FBI investigating Apache scalp seized from Fairfield Auction House. The item was seized from the Pauline Art Antiques and Auction House as part of an investigation into the illegal trafficking of human remains.

• 41:43Speaker 01

  Whoa. And like when?

• 41:47Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if someone kept that.

• 41:49Speaker 01

  When does the karma come in on this bloodshed that founded?

• 41:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm certain it did for the individuals involved.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  I just, I wonder if it's generational, if these things, if the universe will continue to sort itself out.

• 42:10Joe Rogan?

  Well, I think-

• 42:11Speaker 01

  Over this time.

• 42:13Joe Rogan?

  I think this is a very unique time for understanding people. You know, I think

• 42:20Joe Rogan?

  we have to, you know, when people look at all the conflict and all the drama with human beings right now, you have to realize, like, yes, yes, we could certainly live better lives and we certainly have, we can certainly have a better civilization than we have right now. We can do better. But we also have to realize what we're coming from. Like, to make it an adjustment from 1890 to 2025, I mean, this is a big swing of this fucking battleship.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  Unrecognizable.

• 42:51Joe Rogan?

  People were horrible all throughout human history. And I think that's what we really have to come to grips with. It's not just, I mean, we can go back to the Mongol invasions in the 19, what was, what year, the year 1200? How long ago was that? What year was that?

• 43:09Joe Rogan?

  With the Mongols? I think it was in the 1200s.

• 43:14Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean, the Inquisition, we can, we can go to World War I, World War II. People were fucking horrible forever.

• 43:22Joe Rogan?

  And it's just more people are talking about it now than ever before. You know, you had universities in America, which were the anti-war movement started in the nineteen sixties and the hippies and they were starting to get acid and realize like there's more to life, like this is bullshit. The way our parents are living is bullshit. They're miserable and they're gonna die and

• 43:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:43Joe Rogan?

  It's it takes a long time to turn this big ass battleship around. But I think we have to give ourselves some understanding about the past. And and realize like part of the reason why we're so fucked up today is like, look what we come from.

• 43:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, look where we come from. I know we can do better. We definitely can do better. We should do better. We could, we should have a way better life, way better society. But look where we come from.

• 44:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:07Joe Rogan?

  We come from madness.

• 44:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, absolute chaos. Chaos and bloodshed, my friend.

• 44:13Joe Rogan?

  It's just the the ability that a person has to sign off, a person in the government, say, yeah, okay, give them some money so they go kill some Indians indiscriminately. Give them eight thousand dollars per scalp and a little less for the women and children.

• 44:29Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 44:34Joe Rogan?

  You know, hundred and thirty years ago, hundred and forty years ago, hundred and fifty years ago, that's that's nothing, man.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  That's nothing. You know, that's your great grandpa. He was alive back then. Hard to believe.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  It's far out.

• 44:48Joe Rogan?

  It really is, man.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  I've I I wonder if things are,

• 44:54Speaker 01

  you know, probably seem a lot cleaner as far as chaos and bloodshed now in the continental

• 45:03Speaker 01

  US and the Union and stuff, but who is sending folks to go do that abroad?

• 45:13Speaker 01

  To protect the homeland, you know, under the, under the auspices of

• 45:20Speaker 01

  protecting the homeland.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  Who's doing the exact same thing as they were doing then, just in a different way.

• 45:26Speaker 01

  Because I really, I really think we, we, we stay this, as much as has changed and, and we can measure that, we can totally camp.

• 45:36Speaker 01

  I think also we stay the same, you know.

• 45:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, until we're forced to change, yeah. Until something, or until we recognize the need to change collectively.

• 45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:47Joe Rogan?

  But there has to be a discussion of it. It's not something that just organically happens. You know?

• 45:54Speaker 01

  I, I think of like, uh, do you ever see, uh, this, this Hollywood, but Apocalypse Now?

• 46:03Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 46:04Speaker 01

  It was Francis Ford Coppola and he's got like Martin Sheen and Marlon Brando and

• 46:12Speaker 01

  Dennis Hopper and Robert Duvall and all those cool cats and dope movie. But it's written on this

• 46:23Speaker 01

  premise of, of a book that was written in like eighteen ninety-nine by Joseph Conrad, like Heart of Darkness.

• 46:31Joe Rogan?

  Oh, wow. It's that old?

• 46:32Speaker 01

  And Heart of Darkness was talking about a conquest of, I believe the Dutch, I'm not sure, into the Congo. And some atrocities and stuff that were happening there, treating people as subhuman. And I don't know if there was, I don't know if there was scalping or anything, but I think that there was slavery and that sort of thing. But Coppola was able to adapt that and then put the Vietnam War as the new premise. Going into, I think they, I think Sheen's mission and, and the, and the movie at least

• 47:15Speaker 01

  was to go, go upriver into Cambodia or Laos, I'm not sure which, and take out a rogue US general who had basically enslaved a population of, uh,

• 47:33Speaker 01

  of indigenous there.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  All that to say, I like, I, I wonder if, like, in, in Vietnam, if, if, if the folks fighting out there felt, like, in that moment, in that moment where you're, where you're killing somebody, if you realize at that point that nothing has ever changed, and that this is, this is, this, there's something prime evil in, in man with this violence, that this violence is innate? Or, you know, is this violence innate? Is it, is this how folks are and there's no helping it? And there's nothing that's ever gonna change it? Because you can get kinda cynical that way.

• 48:22Speaker 01

  Or, and I, and I kinda tend on this more idealistic, and at times it seems naive or stupid, to have an ideal that folks can, could live in harmony and peace without taking one another's lives, you know?

• 48:44Joe Rogan?

  The problem is they've never done it before.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  I, that's, that's mind-boggling.

• 48:49Joe Rogan?

  Mind-boggling.

• 48:50Speaker 01

  Because it is in all, I think it's in a, in a lot of us, deep down, to, I don't...

• 48:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, it has to be. Because it's the only way we survived. That's the only way we got to where we are today.

• 49:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:03Joe Rogan?

  Because we existed before language, we existed before empathy, before we understood each other, before we could communicate. So, any being that you didn't know from somewhere else wanted what you had, and they would try to take it by force. So, the bigger, stronger ones survived, and that's why the best genetics kept going and going and going. I mean, it was just survival of the fittest. It exists in nature and exists with humans, and that's the basis of our DNA, unfortunately. Like, that's how we started, right? And so that, the way it manifests itself today is fucking drone warfare.

• 49:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 49:36Joe Rogan?

  And bombs, and, you know, dropping bunker busters out of B2s. You know, that's what it is, or B12, is that what it is, the B12? What's the big one? B2. B2? Feels like it should be a bigger number, because it looks like a spaceship.

• 49:53Joe Rogan?

  You see how they flew it over Putin, like, look at my dick, my flying dick.

• 50:00Joe Rogan?

  You see, Trump did that when Putin was in Alaska. They flew a bomber over his head, like, what are we doing? Why are we fly, why are we flying the radar resistant bomber over Putin's head?

• 50:13Speaker 01

  It's, it's, it sounds like a show of force.

• 50:15Joe Rogan?

  Look at my dick.

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is what these games, but like.

• 50:22Speaker 01

  Is it, yeah, I, I just, I, I wonder, is it within? Humans?

• 50:31Speaker 01

  To, to exist in, like, in, in peace without, without?

• 50:35Joe Rogan?

  Well, we certainly can.

• 50:36Speaker 01

  Could it be done?

• 50:37Joe Rogan?

  In small groups, right? Like, if you, me and Jamie, I've said this before, but, you know, about other guests. If we were on an island all together, we wouldn't lock each other up. We wouldn't, we'd just, we'd just figure it out. Like, yeah, okay, I'm gonna go fishing today. Uh, we need firewood. You wanna get the firewood?

• 50:54Speaker 01

  I'm gonna go for a long jog.

• 50:55Joe Rogan?

  Okay, get that jog in, get your cardio in. You know, but you know what I'm saying? Like, we wouldn't, there was, there's only a limited amount of us. We wouldn't have a need to go to war. And most war today is about resources. Most war today is about controlling parts of the world where there's an infinite amount of money in the ground. Whether it's oil, or now it's rare earth minerals and stuff they need for batteries. And that's what a lot of it is. I mean, that's what a lot of conflict is in this world. And that's gross. It's scary. It's scary, but if you ask the average person, like, what are the odds that there would be no more war in your lifetime? And they'll say zero percent.

• 51:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:40Joe Rogan?

  Everyone would say zero percent.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  It's so far out. It's just, I, like, I think, you know, the folks that, that go to war, like, if you. If he signed up and went to, and went to Iraq and, you know, and like, oh,

• 51:56Speaker 01

  oh, three, oh, six, or seven, you know, and you're securing, or not, maybe not Iraq, but you're going to Afghanistan and you're securing opium fields and stuff, and you're out there, you're risking your life, you got the gun on, you are prepared to take somebody's life,

• 52:19Speaker 01

  but for, but for what? And, and like,

• 52:22Joe Rogan?

  We need opium.

• 52:23Speaker 01

  We'll, we'll, but we'll fight, like, we'll, we'll, we'll fight, we'll fight.

• 52:30Speaker 01

  It seems like for the sake of, just for the sake of the hunt, or, or something like that.

• 52:36Joe Rogan?

  If you ask the soldiers when they're signing up, hey, do you want to go to Afghanistan and guard poppy fields? They've been like, what? No, I want to fight terrorism. Motherfucker, I want to stop the people that did nine eleven from doing it again. That's why a lot of people signed up. But then the reality kicks in, once you're standing around poppy fields with a machine gun, and you're like, oh,

• 52:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 52:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is a scam.

• 52:58Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 52:59Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, I don't know how much internet access they had while they were over there, but if they did and they ever Googled, what percentage of all heroin comes from Afghanistan? The answer they would have got is ninety-four percent.

• 53:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:09Joe Rogan?

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• 53:52Joe Rogan?

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• 54:37Joe Rogan?

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• 55:17Joe Rogan?

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• 55:33Speaker 01

  So then it takes, it takes a larger, it, it, it takes essentially a psy-op in order to get men to fight for the interests of the people who are performing the psy-op.

• 55:47Joe Rogan?

  Yes, you have to create a psy-op that puts a narrative out there that makes it noble for us to be doing what we're doing.

• 55:54Speaker 01

  Noble?

• 55:55Joe Rogan?

  Noble.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  We're such suckers.

• 55:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  It's a noble cause. What's more noble than letting somebody live?

• 56:01Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're less suckers now than ever before, but yes, a lot of us are suckers for these narratives.

• 56:07Speaker 01

  Well, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm a sucker for it.

• 56:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I am too.

• 56:11Speaker 01

  Everyone is.

• 56:12Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever read, um, that, uh, War is a Racket?

• 56:16Speaker 01

  Smedley Butler?

• 56:17Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever read it?

• 56:18Speaker 01

  No.

• 56:18Joe Rogan?

  It's really good. It's not long.

• 56:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:21Joe Rogan?

  It's really good and it is essentially outlining what we're talking about, but it was in 1933.

• 56:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 56:28Joe Rogan?

  And Smedley Butler, who, when he went to all these places and did all this war, he thought that he was doing good. He thought he was protecting people even though. But then at the end of his career, when it all, like, the fog of war had kind of faded and he recognized the patterns, like, oh, each time, pull it up, Jamie, just so we can get a look at it.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Was Smedley the one where there was a coup and they had asked him to?

• 56:51Joe Rogan?

  They asked him to take, they asked him to overthrow the fucking government of the United States of America.

• 56:55Speaker 01

  There was a documentary I used to watch, uh, by Francis O'Connelly, I think is his name, but it's called Everything's a Rich Man's Trick and he would always talk about Smedley D. Butler.

• 57:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was a bad man, um, in a, in a good way, but this, this thing that he wrote, um, so you can get a, just a, if you get, just sort of go to the Wikipedia site, War is a Racket.

• 57:19Speaker 01

  I mean, this is before even World War II.

• 57:21Joe Rogan?

  There it is, right there. It contains the summary. Make that a little larger, please.

• 57:26Speaker 01

  Who makes the profits?

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  It says, War is a Racket. It always has been. It's possibly the oldest, easily the most profitable, surely the most vicious. It's the only one international in scope. It is the only one in which profits are reckoned in dollars and the losses in lives. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to be to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it's all about. It's conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the very many.

• 57:58Joe Rogan?

  Out of war, a few people make huge fortunes. Butler confessed that during his decades of service in the United States Marine Corps, I helped Mexico, especially Tampico, save for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefit of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the International Banking House of Brown Brothers in 1909 to 1912, where I've learned, where have I heard of that name before? I don't know. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916.

• 58:43Joe Rogan?

  In China, I helped see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested. Looking back on it, I have given Al Capone, I might have given Al Capone a few hints.

• 58:57Joe Rogan?

  Kind of crazy.

• 58:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:00Joe Rogan?

  Because they've been doing that forever. And if it wasn't for this one guy writing about it, this one very decorated man, who, pull up the thing about the coup, where they tried to enlist him, which is part of the reason why, I'm sure he wrote this. It's like, he was like, what the fuck is this?

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:19Joe Rogan?

  Like, you guys want, you guys want to take over the United States government force? Now imagine if they were successful. Imagine if a military coup really did work in like 1930 or whatever it was. How fucked we would be now.

• 59:33Speaker 01

  I don't know, I'd be in...

• 59:34Joe Rogan?

  Like, it's interesting how history pivots oftentimes on like one or two crucial figures.

• 59:41Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:43Joe Rogan?

  And this guy saying no to this? Who knows? What would have happened if he said yes?

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Is that the premise of Man in the High Castle, Philip K. Dick?

• 59:54Joe Rogan?

  Is it?

• 59:55Speaker 01

  I don't know. I should read more, Joe.

• 59:58Joe Rogan?

  Buh.

• 1:00:00Speaker 05

  The business plot, is that what we're talking about? Not the coup?

• 1:00:04Joe Rogan?

  The coup. We're talking about the coup.

• 1:00:06Speaker 05

  I know, nothing in his Wikipedia says coup, but business plot comes up at the end.

• 1:00:09Joe Rogan?

  What is the business plot?

• 1:00:10Speaker 05

  Uh, that's what I think he was talking about. About this was all milita- like the military industrial complex stuff before it started.

• 1:00:17Joe Rogan?

  Right, but wasn't there a thing where they tried to enlist him to do something?

• 1:00:21Speaker 05

  I think, I mean, this was after he was retired, he's gone on anti-war lectures.

• 1:00:25Speaker 01

  It might have been.

• 1:00:26Speaker 05

  It just goes into his whole career here, and coup wasn't like a highlighted paragraph.

• 1:00:31Joe Rogan?

  Is that just in Wikipedia, though? Can you just see if, uh, there's anything about it online, because it might not be something that Wikipedia would put in?

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  He had a whole bunch of nicknames.

• 1:00:42Joe Rogan?

  Did he?

• 1:00:43Speaker 01

  Did you see that whole list in it?

• 1:00:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you kill a lot of folks, you get a lot of nicknames.

• 1:00:46Speaker 01

  Gee whiz.

• 1:00:50Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's so weird to see, when you think about going, what's that, Jim?

• 1:00:55Speaker 05

  Then business plot pops up.

• 1:00:56Speaker 01

  People used to have fun nicknames.

• 1:00:57Speaker 05

  Business plot, business plot.

• 1:00:58Joe Rogan?

  So it's a business plot, so it's not necessarily like a military coup, like what was the actual plot?

• 1:01:04Speaker 01

  The Wall Street put.

• 1:01:06Joe Rogan?

  Political conspiracy in 1933, the United States to overthrow, oh, this it is. Overthrow the government of the President Franklin D. Roosevelt and install Smedley Butler as dictator. Butler, retired Marine Corps mater general, testified under oath that wealthy businessmen were plotting to create a fascist veterans organization with him as its leader and use it as a coup d'etat to overthrow Roosevelt. In 1934, Butler testified under oath before the United States House of Representatives Special Committee on Un-American Activities on these revelations, although no one was prosecuted, the Congressional Committee was prosecuted. You would think that that might put you in jail. You're trying to overthrow the fucking government.

• 1:01:50Speaker 01

  Uh, these folks get away with it.

• 1:01:51Joe Rogan?

  It's ki- but it's kind of crazy. No one was prosecuted, although no one was prosecuted. The Congressional Committee final report said, "There's no question these attempts were discussed, were planned, and might have been placed in execution when and if the financial backers deemed it expedient." You know, it's funny that no one was prosecuted, but if you did insider trading, you go straight to the pokey. Martha Stewart.

• 1:02:17Joe Rogan?

  No one was prosecuted for that. They put Martha Stewart in jail for lying to the cops.

• 1:02:22Speaker 01

  But not, but there's actual, you know, there's congress, congress folks that do it all the time. They made an example out of the, Martha Stewart, I suppose.

• 1:02:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. I mean, there's Nancy Pelosi's now estimated to be worth four hundred million dollars. You know, and that she's just.

• 1:02:40Speaker 01

  What a great job.

• 1:02:41Joe Rogan?

  It's a great job.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  What a great job to have. I should have gone into.

• 1:02:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, it makes you wonder, when you have four hundred million dollars and you're eighty-two years old, shouldn't you be like going on cruises and just like enjoying your time off and? Why are you still working?

• 1:02:55Joe Rogan?

  What are you doing?

• 1:02:55Speaker 01

  Lust for power. No, I really care about. Uh, these people are clinging with the, with their dying breath to, to every ounce of power. No, no, no, I care. I care about the American people.

• 1:03:09Speaker 01

  Who, who really genuinely believes that anybody cares about us?

• 1:03:13Joe Rogan?

  Oh, there's some lobotomized, no, no pun intended, suckers out there. There's some suckers out there. And then there's a lot of bots. There's a lot of people that aren't real people. Um, that are commenting on both sides.

• 1:03:25Speaker 01

  Like on the internet, yeah.

• 1:03:28Joe Rogan?

  On both sides of it. Stay out of the comments, kids. Stay out of commentary, because it's not real. You're, if you're, you're interacting with narratives that are propped up. Might be propped up by AI, might be propped up by bad state actors. There's a lot going on, folks. And it's, it's not all people talking about things, and that should be illegal.

• 1:03:48Speaker 01

  Are there bot wars now?

• 1:03:49Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent. Yeah. Yeah, a hundred percent. There's bots fighting against bot. Yeah, yeah.

• 1:03:54Speaker 01

  Your bots.

• 1:03:55Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent. It's probably a giant chunk of the internet.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  Are they actual bots or are they like people in a call center?

• 1:04:01Joe Rogan?

  Both things. Both things. Both things are real. There's AI for sure, that people are running programs that are, that are saying certain things and. But there's also people that get hired to do it. You know, there's some, these pro-American sites, you know, and then people have done like an IP trace and they find out these people are in fucking Karachi. They're fucking Pakistan and, it's, you know, they're, they're an Indian. They're in China. It's like, who knows who's doing it and why they're doing it? But there's a bunch of foreign countries that would have a vested interest in keeping America very unstable. You know, it's really good to have us at our each other's throats politically. That's good for them.

• 1:04:44Joe Rogan?

  It's it's good to crush our faith in democracy and make people consider communism and it gets it gets really weird, you know, when you have a bunch of people that are throwing a bunch of opinions into any sort of like real important discussion about civilization. And you realize like, oh, my God, eighty percent of the people talking aren't just people.

• 1:05:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:09Joe Rogan?

  They're either being hired to do this, or it's AI, or they're bots.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  It seems to be like manufactured chaos in order to take the air out of the room, to suffocate information.

• 1:05:22Joe Rogan?

  Also to make laws so they can clamp down on dissent.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  And, yeah.

• 1:05:28Joe Rogan?

  The more, the more you can have chaos online, the more it becomes unmanageable, the more you have to manage it.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:05:35Joe Rogan?

  Right? And the more people ask you to come in and save them, please save us, save us from this. There should be laws.

• 1:05:42Speaker 01

  I mean, that's the

• 1:05:43Joe Rogan?

  Hate speech shouldn't be legal.

• 1:05:46Speaker 01

  That's kind of the idea behind like the like false flag.

• 1:05:50Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  Gun, gun things or like, uh, I don't know.

• 1:05:54Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's what got us into Vietnam.

• 1:05:55Speaker 01

  I think like Vegas.

• 1:05:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Like the Mandalay Bay thing, like there's a lot of theories behind that one.

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  That's a weird one. That's a weird one.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  That one is gonna, I, that's gonna bother me forever. That, because that one actually happened while I was awake and paying attention and and and it just, nothing, nothing lines up with it.

• 1:06:17Joe Rogan?

  You weren't there, were you? Were you in Vegas at the time?

• 1:06:19Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:06:20Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  No, I was sitting in Nashville, but I just meant I was. I was paying attention.

• 1:06:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That was a crazy one. Um, and there's multiple reports of more than one person shooting. And then there was like, how did he get 400 pounds of equipment into his room without anybody noticing it?

• 1:06:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:38Joe Rogan?

  That seems crazy. Like you've got, a rifle case is a very distinctive kind of case. Like, I'm assuming he's carrying, like, you know, some kind of Pelican box. So, like something, some snap down box. Like, that's a pretty big box, man. If you've got a bunch of those and you're bringing them in along with boxes of ammunition, like, how much does that weigh? How strong are you? How, you know, like, if you had to carry 400 pounds of shit into a hotel room?

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  That dude wasn't-

• 1:07:07Joe Rogan?

  That would take a long time.

• 1:07:09Speaker 01

  That dude wasn't doing all of it.

• 1:07:10Joe Rogan?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:07:11Speaker 01

  And, I mean, didn't like the security guard witness go on Ellen to explain it? Did they? Yeah, she, what was that? Was his name Jesus? Yeah, Campos?

• 1:07:22Joe Rogan?

  Jamie's all over this. Are you all over this one?

• 1:07:24Speaker 05

  I've been all over this from the jump.

• 1:07:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay. There's a few-

• 1:07:27Speaker 01

  See it?

• 1:07:28Speaker 05

  This is the one, this is one of the ones I know a lot of.

• 1:07:30Joe Rogan?

  Oh, well, speak to us, young Jamie. Speak to us.

• 1:07:33Speaker 05

  There's, you haven't said anything wrong yet, but, uh, there's a really good website someone put together called like the Las Vegas Shooting Map dot com. And they've got tracked little, uh, it's a Google map, but there's like little dots for YouTube videos, cell phone footage, 911 recordings, photos. It's a complete timeline from the, like, uh, time before the concert started to like five days after.

• 1:07:57Joe Rogan?

  What is the best theory about why that happened?

• 1:08:01Speaker 05

  Conspiracy or real?

• 1:08:02Joe Rogan?

  Was it- Conspiracy. Give me the juiciest one first.

• 1:08:04Speaker 05

  Conspiracy that you read online, like especially on a place like, uh, X dot com would be that there was a, let me try to word this right. Uh, I think they were worried about, um, the Saudi family or whoever's in control in Saudi Arabia was worried about MBS taking over. And there was an event happening that he was in Vegas for, and they tried to use this chaos to take him out.

• 1:08:23Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:08:24Speaker 05

  They found out about it, and then this leads to this, uh, event happening the next month in November where he got all these, all the families to come to, uh, Four Seasons. There was like, uh, kidnappings and-

• 1:08:37Speaker 05

  Extortions and all sorts of money, like he basically was pissed that he, and he found out about it.

• 1:08:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that happened a month later?

• 1:08:42Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:08:42Joe Rogan?

  Whoa.

• 1:08:43Speaker 05

  People have heard about that event happening, but tying it to the Las Vegas shooting, not a lot of people have done. I just read about that part recently.

• 1:08:50Joe Rogan?

  Holy shit dude.

• 1:08:51Speaker 05

  But how, there's not a lot of proof of any of that happening, but that's the conspiracy.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  I thought it was like metal detectors in the casinos.

• 1:08:58Speaker 05

  I mean, that, that's part of, part of it. People thought that they were trying to create an event so people would have to get body scanned in every casino.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Cause, cause there were people in the state government that had stock in these, in these security systems.

• 1:09:12Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  That's, I mean, is diabolical.

• 1:09:14Joe Rogan?

  God, I hope that's not true.

• 1:09:16Speaker 05

  Um, but there was apparently like, there's shells that were found in places that were outside of that hotel room.

• 1:09:23Joe Rogan?

  Outside of the hotel room?

• 1:09:25Speaker 05

  Yeah, or up, away from those windows. Some people think that the second window was broken after the fact.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  That one don't make no sense. That's just.

• 1:09:33Joe Rogan?

  And he died of a self inflicted gunshot wound allegedly, right? So is the idea that he's a patsy?

• 1:09:40Speaker 05

  I guess. That's, I mean, if you're gonna follow that conspiracy I just laid out, then a hundred percent you'd have to be. But again, there's not a ton of evidence for that one. There's some.

• 1:09:49Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 1:09:52Speaker 01

  Mysteries.

• 1:09:53Joe Rogan?

  What's the other, uh, theories?

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  Enigmas.

• 1:09:55Speaker 05

  Sort of what he was getting into where it's like, there was this like tie in to just get body scanners everywhere.

• 1:10:01Joe Rogan?

  That one makes sense.

• 1:10:02Speaker 05

  Then the one, the funnest one, I'll show you a picture of. You know how there's like a, a playing deck? Of cards that's got like every conspiracy from like the last 20 years in it?

• 1:10:10Joe Rogan?

  There is?

• 1:10:10Speaker 05

  Seen that going around?

• 1:10:11Joe Rogan?

  No, no.

• 1:10:12Speaker 05

  Just like the twin towers are in one picture and the one with Vegas, I'll show you. It's very, Sam Tripoli pointed this out to me there.

• 1:10:19Joe Rogan?

  You ever get into the Oklahoma City bombing?

• 1:10:23Speaker 01

  I'm, I'm familiar.

• 1:10:24Joe Rogan?

  That one.

• 1:10:25Speaker 01

  I'm familiar.

• 1:10:26Joe Rogan?

  That one gets real weird.

• 1:10:27Speaker 01

  We got Ruby Rid, Ridge, Waco.

• 1:10:31Speaker 01

  Tim doing his thing, possibly with the team.

• 1:10:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, those are all big, the, what I'm getting at, what is this?

• 1:10:39Speaker 05

  This is the card, the playing deck cards, this is the Vegas card, it's got this, uh, it says that there's-

• 1:10:44Joe Rogan?

  Is that a tattoo?

• 1:10:45Speaker 05

  This is Jason Aldean's tattoo, who was the guy on stage when the shooting started.

• 1:10:49Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 1:10:49Speaker 05

  Just so happens to be, it's a jack and an ace. Now, that's a coincidence, but that's a crazy coincidence. It's like, how that could have been planned, don't know.

• 1:10:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but that's his fucking name, bro, Jason Aldean, that's ridiculous, that's a crazy connection to make. His literal name is Jason Aldean, J A.

• 1:11:09Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a microphone and a, and a jack and an ace.

• 1:11:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:14Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:11:14Joe Rogan?

  With the J and an A on it.

• 1:11:16Speaker 05

  That's wild, so.

• 1:11:17Joe Rogan?

  That's silly, that's silly. That one, that one needs to be shut up.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  That's fu- that's outrageous.

• 1:11:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but

• 1:11:29Joe Rogan?

  it's just

• 1:11:31Joe Rogan?

  when you think that someone might have done something like that, someone might do a mass shooting so they could take out one dude, like blame it

• 1:11:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:39Joe Rogan?

  on this guy, like how much planning has to be involved in that? And then like, how do you get the patsy? You get this guy who's just like a, a degenerate gambler? That's what he was, right? It was just a poker player, right?

• 1:11:51Speaker 05

  They made a bunch of money playing video poker, which is like, if you make that much money playing video poker, they're not gonna let you keep playing.

• 1:11:57Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 1:11:58Speaker 05

  Dana made money playing blackjack and they're like, you can't play here anymore. Like if you're good and you're making money, they say, we don't want you to do that.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they booted Dana out of the Palms back in the day, that's what it was with the Palms, I think?

• 1:12:11Speaker 01

  Well, with like, I don't know, OKC, was that to destroy information? Is that the, is that the conspiracy?

• 1:12:20Speaker 01

  There, that, that like, in the Oklahoma City bomb, there was, there was a bunch of info in the building that they wanted to-

• 1:12:26Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps.

• 1:12:27Speaker 01

  Cause I know some of Bill Clinton's stuff maybe disappeared.

• 1:12:31Joe Rogan?

  I don't know the specifics on that, but what I was getting at was the specifics of the bomb itself. Um, that a fertilizer bomb would not be able to do that kind of destruction. And that destruction was the way a bomb generally works. Like, it goes from, this is where the bomb detonates, and then all the energy goes outward, right? If you're parked right in front of a building, how does the building blow outward this way? And why were there all these reports of the FBI and, uh, bomb units pulling additional undetonated bombs from the building?

• 1:13:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:13:08Joe Rogan?

  Like, look at how the building blew out.

• 1:13:10Speaker 01

  I know, that's...

• 1:13:10Joe Rogan?

  It's kinda crazy.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  Absolute devastation.

• 1:13:13Joe Rogan?

  I mean, but it really depends entirely on the size of the bomb, right? So if you have a bomb, like, see where that blue area is? Like, that's where supposedly, I think, where the bomb went off. If you have an immense bomb that is right there, and it just blows up, and that's the force of it all around, like, in a sort of conical effect, that kinda makes sense. But a lot of people, um, think that the amount of power that you would gen- generate from a fertilizer bomb is not really capable of doing that kind of damage.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Did the...

• 1:13:47Joe Rogan?

  And Alex Jones, uh, who was the one, the first person that I ever hea- heard talk about this.

• 1:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:13:54Joe Rogan?

  He played all these news reports of them talking about finding additional bombs.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:02Joe Rogan?

  Like, it was on the news, so they were talking about the, the FBI, or whoever it was.

• 1:14:06Speaker 01

  Was the ATF in that building?

• 1:14:09Joe Rogan?

  I believe something like that.

• 1:14:11Speaker 01

  Then maybe they would've had...

• 1:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Some information. Well, also, they changed some of the laws after... This episode is brought to you by Noco. You're miles from home, you turn the key, nothing. Dead battery. Normally, that means finding another car, someone willing to give you a jump, and dealing with old jumper cables. But what if you didn't need any of that? Keep a Noco portable jump starter in your glove box and jump-start your car yourself. No cables, no second vehicle, no waiting for help. It also works as a power bank and has a built-in LED flashlight. Noco, the end of jumper cables. Use code ROGEN10 for 10% off. Select jump starters at N-O dot C-O.

• 1:14:55Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:39Joe Rogan?

  Check it out, this ad and the products being advertised are intended for a United States audience. That bombing.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Some explosives could have been in their possession even, or something.

• 1:15:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that like it blew up because of the other thing blowing up?

• 1:15:53Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 1:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Perhaps, but they didn't say that. And it's, it's pretty odd that the ATF offices would have just bombs laying around.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:16:01Joe Rogan?

  That doesn't make any sense. Like, why do you guys have bombs in the break room?

• 1:16:04Speaker 01

  Well, they're studying.

• 1:16:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're studying actual live bombs? I don't think so. That doesn't make any sense. They're pretty good about taking care of bombs. Um, but see if you can find anything about, uh, reports of additional bombs from Oklahoma City.

• 1:16:19Speaker 05

  I know they were looking for a second person for a while.

• 1:16:22Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm, yeah, they were looking for a second person too.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:25Joe Rogan?

  But I mean, that, there's also this problem with, uh, the fog of eyewitness accounts and everything after a catastrophe. Like, one thing that happens about events is no one really, like, if you're there and some fucking thing blows up, it's, it's entirely dependent upon your makeup, whether or not you can even objectively recall exactly what happened. Depending upon like, how freaked out you are by this and how used to being freaked out you are. Like, maybe you're a veteran, maybe you've served overseas and like, you can actually give an accurate account of this because you've, you've been around crazy shit, but if you haven't, it's very likely that, you know, people are very confused afterwards.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  I would have been totally shook.

• 1:17:10Joe Rogan?

  No credible evidence of additional bombs being found, um, initial confusion, this is AI over you. Hmm, AI, hmm.

• 1:17:19Joe Rogan?

  In the immediate aftermath of the AI, by the way, that still thinks the COVID vaccine saved millions of lives. In the immediate aftermath of the bombing, some news reports and individuals speculated about multiple explosions. Okay, news reports. Why would they say that if there was no reason to say that? Um, conflicting reports, some theories suggested a second, even third bomb were involved. Citing nearby seismograph readings and witness accounts.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  Seismograph?

• 1:17:48Joe Rogan?

  So there was multiple seismograph readings? Uh, experts, expert disagreement. Oh, I love when they call on the experts. However, experts, including physicists and engineers that are not named, stated that the second tremor recorded by the seismographs was likely caused by the buildings collapsed. Not another bomb. Go to sleep, America. Conspiracy theories, some conspiracy theorists continued to promote the idea of additional bombs, even though there was news reports, often citing discrepancies in the observed damage or expert opinions. Yeah, the observed damage is kind of crazy. The damage is kind of crazy.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:27Joe Rogan?

  It looks like it's blown out. You know?

• 1:18:30Speaker 01

  That's a, that's a huge, huge demo job, man.

• 1:18:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just weird. You know, it's, and it's his, Timothy McVeigh's reason for doing it. All of it is weird.

• 1:18:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:42Joe Rogan?

  Like.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Wasn't, it was revenge for the government's intervention with Ruby Ridge and the Waco.

• 1:18:49Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:18:51Speaker 01

  So he was going to take on the.

• 1:18:54Joe Rogan?

  I mean, how many of these extremist organizations get infiltrated by the government when they find some suckers?

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  Well, didn't they, didn't they find like the folks who were gonna kidnap the governor or something? It was just like, wasn't it all the gov?

• 1:19:08Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It was 12 out of 14 people.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Joe Rogan?

  Were government agents.

• 1:19:16Speaker 01

  So then who?

• 1:19:16Joe Rogan?

  And then those two guys went to jail.

• 1:19:18Speaker 01

  So the two, the two that weren't?

• 1:19:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, exactly. And then the two that weren't, it wasn't even their idea. They were like dorks that were LARPing. You know, "Yeah, man, we're gonna blow up the government."

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 1:19:28Joe Rogan?

  They're fucking losers. They wanted friends, you know? They wanted friends and they found friends and these extremists. And they thought that these guys, you know, they fucking meet up, talk about kidnapping the governor. Like, they thought it was all bullshit. Those guys literally said, they thought we were never gonna do this.

• 1:19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:43Joe Rogan?

  And then the feds come knocking on their door. One of the wildest ones, they radicalized this young guy, he was nineteen years old, I believe it was in Dallas. They radicalized him, and then they gave him a bomb that was fake, and then gave him a cellphone to detonate the bomb. And then when he deton- when he tried to use the cellphone to detonate the bomb, they arrested him. Because even though it was fake, even though it didn't work, even though they gave it to him, even though they talked him into doing it.

• 1:20:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:11Joe Rogan?

  They arrested him for terrorism, because he was willing to listen to them, which is crazy.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  Why do you do that?

• 1:20:19Joe Rogan?

  Well, also, you're doing it to a young guy who probably, like, this is the first time in his life, he felt like he had any purpose. Like, you've mind-fucked him into believing that he's doing this for a greater good. You know, you're, you're mind-fucking him to telling him that, like, you know, he's gonna put a dent in the great Satan by detonating this bomb, and you're gonna go down in history, you're gonna be huge, and, huh, and he's just a dumb guy. Just a dumb dude who they talk into it, and then they arrest him. Like, "We stop terrorism."

• 1:20:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:50Joe Rogan?

  You fucking made it, bitch. You made it, and then-

• 1:20:52Speaker 01

  You make the problem, fix the problem. It's kinda like the pharmaceutical industry or something.

• 1:20:57Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a pattern.

• 1:20:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:58Joe Rogan?

  It's a pattern, but it's just a weird one that we, that we tolerate under the rule of law. Like, that seems pretty crazy, that you guys made a plot to kidnap the governor. You got twelve, twelve out of fourteen of the people who are involved were working with the government.

• 1:21:18Joe Rogan?

  And then, you know, it should be like, well, okay, whose idea was it? It was Mike's idea. He was the first one to say, Mike, you work for the government. This is crazy, Mike. You can't arrest Tom, because it was your idea, Mike, you fucking asshole. But yeah, yeah, yeah, but I was working for the government. I mean, I was like, I'm fine, right?

• 1:21:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:37Joe Rogan?

  And then he gets, they all get, just disappear. Nobody hears them. Nobody knows their name. Nobody knows who they are. They're probably doing it right now somewhere else.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  They go into the private sector. They're, they're with, I don't know.

• 1:21:50Joe Rogan?

  Who knows? Who knows?

• 1:21:53Speaker 01

  Over with, uh.

• 1:21:54Joe Rogan?

  I mean, who knows who was instructing them to do? Sure. Who knows who was instructing them to do what they were doing in the first place? Like, why did you guys decide that you were gonna kidnap the governor? Is there higher-ups that told you this is a good idea to plot this? Like, what are we trying to do?

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  I just wonder how much within those,

• 1:22:13Speaker 01

  within even these buildings, like, what's the communication like in a huge organization like the FBI or something? Are there, are there people over on floor two that have no idea what's going on on floor four?

• 1:22:28Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent.

• 1:22:29Speaker 01

  You know?

• 1:22:29Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent.

• 1:22:30Speaker 01

  And?

• 1:22:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, one hundred percent.

• 1:22:32Speaker 01

  Just pockets, pockets of intelligence, little microcosms of, of people working, you know?

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, talking to people that actually work in the government, they'll tell you there are people that are in charge of each individual office, and they're like a czar of this office. You gotta get through them. And they could put the kibosh on anything you're trying to do. And they're hiding information from the rest of the office.

• 1:22:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:22:58Joe Rogan?

  Hiding information from other agencies.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  I, yeah.

• 1:23:02Joe Rogan?

  When I was a kid, I dated this girl who worked for the government. And one of her jobs was, this was like, really... The be very beginning of computers, so ninety-one maybe, somewhere around then. Maybe two, maybe ninety-two. And her job was to help distribute information, say if the Navy did a study, that the Army would have access to it, you know, so it was all on a database.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:23:28Joe Rogan?

  So this was like really, really early on.

• 1:23:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:32Joe Rogan?

  Because they didn't share information with each other.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  But they still don't share information.

• 1:23:35Joe Rogan?

  No, they're in competition with each other.

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Yeah, some of them don't like each other.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:42Joe Rogan?

  Agencies that don't let those fucking pussies over at the CIA and those faggots over at the FBI, like there's like a lot of that stupid shit that goes on. There's a lot of that stupid shit that goes on, just like there's people that root for the fucking Dolphins and other people root for the Raiders. People get tribal. People get really weird, man, they get tribal with every damn thing that they do. Every damn thing that they do and it's us against them. You know, we're Xerox is gonna take over the copying world, fuck all those other pussies.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  It's like, it's that as above, so below, man, the part, the, the patterns, the patterns go down forever.

• 1:24:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, we have the patterns of territorial apes. That's the problem. We have the, the consistent patterns of territorial apes and those patterns find their way into everything.

• 1:24:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:29Joe Rogan?

  They find their way into fucking poetry slams.

• 1:24:32Speaker 01

  I mean, it's, it's, it's music.

• 1:24:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  Music's like that.

• 1:24:36Joe Rogan?

  Oh, for sure, right?

• 1:24:37Speaker 01

  I'm sure comedy's like that.

• 1:24:39Joe Rogan?

  It is to some extent, yeah. Yeah, I mean, in some, certain circles it is, in certain circles it's not. Um, but it's, uh, it's like that with everything. Everyone is fighting for dominance.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:51Joe Rogan?

  In this really gross, weird way. And I think it's just our genetics. I think it's our, the pattern of how we got here for the first place and how the human reward systems were all set up. They're set up to try to conquer things and you know whether you're conquering video game development or fucking you're making the best folding phone it's like we're gonna kick ass over Google you know like everybody has their own little thing their little realm they're trying to conquer.

• 1:25:19Speaker 01

  Right and it feels great.

• 1:25:21Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't think it does.

• 1:25:22Speaker 01

  You don't think it feels great to kick ass at something?

• 1:25:25Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  I mean you want like I think.

• 1:25:27Joe Rogan?

  Certainly, I mean certainly does.

• 1:25:28Speaker 01

  The pursuit of excellence is like the most joy rendering thing that there is.

• 1:25:33Joe Rogan?

  That aspect of it, but the aspect of crushing your enemies, I wonder how much fun that is.

• 1:25:38Speaker 01

  Well, you don't have to have, like I don't, this is thing is like playing guitar or something, I don't have an enemy.

• 1:25:45Joe Rogan?

  But you're an artist, you're not a corporation, right?

• 1:25:47Speaker 01

  I just, I, I, corporation.

• 1:25:50Joe Rogan?

  Are you an LLC yet? Did you sign up for the devil's deal?

• 1:25:54Speaker 01

  What is?

• 1:25:55Joe Rogan?

  A limited liability corporation, a lot of people do, so.

• 1:25:58Speaker 01

  I, I don't have a record deal if that's what you're saying.

• 1:26:02Joe Rogan?

  No, no, no, no, when you start making money, they tell you to form an LLC.

• 1:26:07Speaker 01

  What is it gonna do?

• 1:26:08Joe Rogan?

  It's like you become like a little corporation and that way you pay yourself from the corporation, you can lease a car from the corporation.

• 1:26:15Speaker 01

  I, I, I, that'd be kinda cool.

• 1:26:17Joe Rogan?

  You'll probably have to do that someday, eventually.

• 1:26:19Speaker 01

  I'll be in a corporation.

• 1:26:20Joe Rogan?

  Maybe after this podcast, you'll have to do that.

• 1:26:25Joe Rogan?

  Call it bottomless wells.

• 1:26:33Speaker 01

  I, I, I, that's the most fun and it does seem like it is what, anytime you're, you're in a hard place or anything like that mentally or yeah, like the, the best way out is like find something to try to get good at or try some, you know, and then try your best at it.

• 1:26:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:55Speaker 01

  Like it and it just seems innate.

• 1:26:58Joe Rogan?

  I think so.

• 1:26:59Speaker 01

  Like, no matter what it is.

• 1:27:01Joe Rogan?

  Right, but the problem is if that thing is making money, then it gets weird, right? Like if you're, if your whole thing you're good at and you try to get better at is just making money, that's, that's when things get really squirrely. Cause the same thing that makes you really good at writing songs could make another person like really good at being a psychopath. Because the best way to make money is to be completely feelingless and did not give a shit about who this is gonna impact, you know? Ship all those jobs overseas, look how much money we're gonna make, do this to that, fuck all the, listen if we don't. Take care of this environmental pollutant and we just like let it leak out. We save X amount of money.

• 1:27:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:37Joe Rogan?

  Do that.

• 1:27:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:39Joe Rogan?

  Then that's, that's where things get weird. You figure out the best way to make money. Like you're really good at making money and that becomes your creativity. You get really creative about moving around the law in order to make money. Get really creative about how you establish relationships with people. How you can, you know, make sure that laws are passed that favor what you're doing and.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  That's a strange art, very weird art. That's a dark art. That is, that is the dark art.

• 1:28:05Joe Rogan?

  It's a dark art.

• 1:28:06Speaker 01

  Snape never taught about that one, dog.

• 1:28:09Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's not a creative art, but it is creative in some ways. It taps into that same thing, but in a very negative way. You know, maybe positive for that person's bank account, but negative in terms of its impact.

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  But do they even care about their bank account at that, like what is it to them? It's just something totally different.

• 1:28:27Joe Rogan?

  That's the world they live in, man. Like if you're a fucking prison warden, the war, the world you live in is like, these are the rules in order to be, to stay alive as a prison warden. This is what you're gonna do. If you're a prison guard, if you're on the floor with all these inmates, this is what you do to stay alive. This is what you do to maintain order. This is what you do to make sure people listen and fall in line. Like that, once you're there, that's, you have to do that, right? Like if you're there, if you're, if you're a prison guard, this is what you do. And I think if you are a guy who is in charge of, like you're an economic hitman, like John Perkins, you know that, you ever read that book?

• 1:29:07Speaker 01

  Uh-uh.

• 1:29:07Joe Rogan?

  Uh, what they do is they would give enormous loans to countries that definitely couldn't fucking pay it off. And then, you know, you come in and start extracting resources.

• 1:29:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:29:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, China does that, the United States does that. Many countries have been involved in that kind of shit. And they're creative in that way.

• 1:29:27Speaker 01

  Are there NGOs doing that?

• 1:29:29Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 1:29:31Speaker 01

  Like is that what?

• 1:29:31Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 1:29:32Speaker 01

  Is that what? Oh, Billy, Billy G's up too?

• 1:29:37Joe Rogan?

  Billy G?

• 1:29:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, uh, Microsoft.

• 1:29:40Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 1:29:42Speaker 01

  Like.

• 1:29:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, he's involved in a lot of the.

• 1:29:45Speaker 01

  Do you give a big loan or, you know, give a big favor out and then take, and then just take whatever you want from them after that? Cause everyone's, everyone's got notes once they.

• 1:29:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, it's called philanthrocapitalism, you know? And that being a philanthropist is actually very profitable, which is weird.

• 1:30:03Speaker 01

  No, I.

• 1:30:04Joe Rogan?

  Like Bill Gates made hundreds of millions of dollars off of the pandemic.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:30:09Joe Rogan?

  From, just from vaccines.

• 1:30:10Speaker 01

  Dude, philanthropy is far out. I have a song about philanthropy.

• 1:30:14Joe Rogan?

  Do you?

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  It's called philanthropist.

• 1:30:18Joe Rogan?

  Let's hear it. Put it on there. Put it, Jamie will find it. Um, you know, like real true philanthropy, when you're, you know, you're giving money away because you're just a kind person is wonderful. It's beautiful. You know? I like it when it's done silently.

• 1:30:35Speaker 01

  That's the only way to properly do it, right?

• 1:30:38Joe Rogan?

  Here we go.

• 1:30:44Speaker 03

  When I was just a boy, my mama asked me this. She said, "Son, what you wanna be?" I said, "A big philanthropist with data as my oil. An illness is my business. With guns is my retirement and war is my mistress. I'm gonna be an oligarch with a whole bunch of rockets. I'd get them two sides fighting and I'd empty both of their pockets. And if I got bored, harmony weary. I'd try my hand in dabbling in social engineering. I'm gonna be a billionaire with a big foundation. We used to rule in shadows, but I'd come right out and I'd rule the nation.

• 1:31:26Speaker 03

  I'm gonna do all my own laundry in a third world nation state. Experiment with the locals like some philanthropic saint. And I'd never make a cure. No, I'd get you a treatment plan. You can die in slow installments and I'll bleed you while I can. And I'd travel around the planet in a big old mystery jet. What I did would be my business and what you did I would collect. If I was a philanthropist, just turn around, philanthropist.

• 1:32:01Speaker 01

  Not a whole lot of help just for myself, but I gotta make it look convincing.

• 1:32:10Joe Rogan?

  You nailed it. That's philanthrocapitalism right there.

• 1:32:15Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 1:32:15Joe Rogan?

  In a song.

• 1:32:16Speaker 01

  It's far out.

• 1:32:19Joe Rogan?

  That's a great song.

• 1:32:20Speaker 01

  It shouldn't be. It shouldn't be allowed.

• 1:32:24Joe Rogan?

  It shouldn't be allowed. Well, it shouldn't be that easy to trick people.

• 1:32:27Speaker 01

  Who believes it? That's why I'm just, I'm like, who, who in the hell would?

• 1:32:31Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Would think that this is...

• 1:32:35Speaker 01

  Good things happen because of it, but more bad things happen than good a lot of the time. And you're holding an entire nation hostage, or an entire group of people hostage by lending them money.

• 1:32:47Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:32:47Speaker 01

  Well, that's not freedom.

• 1:32:49Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:32:51Speaker 01

  You gotta be free.

• 1:32:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, uh, it's real weird. Um, because there's certain people that are like genuine philanthropists, but even them, when you're donating money to specific organizations and you find out that most of their money goes to overhead.

• 1:33:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:08Joe Rogan?

  Most of their money goes to employee salaries, which are ridiculously high. And you go, oh, this is a scam. This is clearly a scam. You aren't, you aren't kind people trying to fix the world. You're profiting off of this idea of being a kind person that wants to fix the world. And you're doing a little bit of help. You're doing about 10% of help, maybe 20% of help, maybe even 30 for a good organization. But the reality is, it's about you.

• 1:33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:31Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy. You know, imagine if just you said, hey, man, my friend's sick. Do you think you could donate some money to my friend? You know, because he doesn't have any health insurance and...

• 1:33:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:33:44Joe Rogan?

  And we were like, yeah, man, what do we gotta do? And then everybody gives you money and then you take 70% of it. And we go, hey, dude, what the fuck?

• 1:33:53Speaker 01

  You get strung up.

• 1:33:54Joe Rogan?

  You're like, hey, man, I worked to get that money for him.

• 1:33:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:59Joe Rogan?

  I had to call you guys. I really, I put in the time. I need some of that money. I need 70% of that money. You'd be like, what the fuck are you talking about? Your friends would never talk to you again. Everybody would hate you. But meanwhile, if you do this for an NGO, you get celebrated.

• 1:34:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:16Speaker 01

  Insane.

• 1:34:18Joe Rogan?

  It's real. It is insane and it's real. The weirdest thing about it is this isn't a conspiracy theory. This is real. This is really how most of them operate. Some of it's ninety percent. Some of it's ninety ten.

• 1:34:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:34:33Joe Rogan?

  There's good ones out there though. There's really good ones where most of the money goes to the charity and that's awesome. There's real people out there that are really kind people, that are genuine philanthropists and most of them live very humble lives.

• 1:34:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:46Joe Rogan?

  Cause that's, you don't make a million dollars a year if you're doing it right.

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:51Joe Rogan?

  You just don't.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:34:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, you just don't. And if you are making a million dollars a year, hmm, chances are you might be a vampire.

• 1:35:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, that guy was all over the, all over the flight logs and everything.

• 1:35:09Joe Rogan?

  Which guy was? Which guy?

• 1:35:11Speaker 01

  Gates.

• 1:35:11Joe Rogan?

  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:35:13Speaker 01

  All tangled up in all sorts of stuff, man.

• 1:35:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He was tangled up in all sorts of stuff after that guy went to jail. After he went to jail and came out the first time.

• 1:35:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:25Joe Rogan?

  Gates was hanging with him still.

• 1:35:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:35:27Joe Rogan?

  As were many people. It's real weird stuff, man. It's real weird.

• 1:35:34Joe Rogan?

  Cause it seems that it's like, once you develop a network of people that trust a person like that and like, come, come hang out with him, he's cool. It's a good place to go and get your freak on. Like, cause if you're a really rich, like, international businessman and everybody knows who you are, like a Bill Gates type character, you can't just go get some head. Like, what do you do? How do you, how do you, how do you go get your fuck on, you know? What do you do?

• 1:36:01Speaker 01

  Is that, is that what the, is that who Jeff was?

• 1:36:04Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:36:05Speaker 01

  Was he the fixer in that?

• 1:36:07Joe Rogan?

  I would just be speculating. This episode is brought to you by ShipStation. Black Friday is madness if you're shopping. But if you're the person trying to get all those orders out the door, that's a whole different kind of crazy. That's where ShipStation comes in. It's an end-to-end order fulfillment platform that brings all your orders into one place. So when volume spikes, your team isn't scrambling to keep up. More than 1 million businesses have used ShipStation to get through peak season, scaling fulfillment up to 40 times while cutting costs up to 30%. It's the kind of tool that helps businesses stay in control when things get nuts and every order matters.

• 1:36:49Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:34Joe Rogan?

  Head to Squarespace.com/rogan for a free trial. And when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. I would just be speculating, but a good friend of mine who's very intelligent said this to me. He said, "There's people that want certain experiences and there's people that provide these powerful people with experiences. And that's how they fit into the social structure. They're there to help, they can keep their mouth shut and they help people get these experiences." Right. And then there's probably some sort of a wild rush of being naughty and doing things you're not supposed to be doing. We can get away with it because we're worth 80, 100 billion dollars or whatever the fuck they're worth.

• 1:38:19Speaker 01

  They're trying very hard to get away with this one. I don't know if the people are going to...

• 1:38:25Speaker 01

  Forget, just.

• 1:38:26Joe Rogan?

  People are never gonna forget. The problem is, do we have any power? What do we do? You know, what do you do? I mean, you definitely can change the way you vote. Like, if it comes up again, but the problem is, this is a bipartisan issue.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  It's bipartisan. It's not, I don't know, I heard it's a democratic hoax.

• 1:38:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't think that's true.

• 1:38:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's certainly not a hoax if you go to jail. Certainly not a hoax if Ghislaine Maxwell's in jail too. So like, she's in jail for sex trafficking, excuse me, she's in jail for sex trafficking. But the question is, to who? Who's she in jail, who, you have to be sex trafficking to someone.

• 1:39:06Speaker 01

  Somebody.

• 1:39:06Joe Rogan?

  In order to go to jail, right? So, who, how's that work? How, she's been in jail for years. So like, how's that work?

• 1:39:15Speaker 01

  Is she looking at a pardon, or are they gonna?

• 1:39:18Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, but they just moved her to another prison. It's supposed to be a nice prison, as far as prisons go.

• 1:39:24Speaker 01

  They move her to, to kill her?

• 1:39:27Joe Rogan?

  Could be.

• 1:39:30Joe Rogan?

  But I would, why would you waste the money to move someone if you wanted to kill them? I'm sure they could kill her pretty easy.

• 1:39:36Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:39:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, but the question is, does she have dead woman switches? You know what I mean?

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  What's dead?

• 1:39:43Joe Rogan?

  You know the dead man switches?

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  What, like, a tripwire?

• 1:39:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like, if I die, I want you to do this for me. And then, whether it's in Israel, whether it's in Canada, whoever the fuck the person is that you have, that you give this information to.

• 1:39:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:56Joe Rogan?

  You just say, if anything happens to me, let this loose. And then you tell them, like, look, I have this, that, this and that, I have all these tapes, I have all these videos. And if anything happens to me, all this goes online.

• 1:40:11Joe Rogan?

  So, leave me alone.

• 1:40:12Speaker 01

  Is that word true?

• 1:40:14Joe Rogan?

  That's a real thing that people do. It's called a dead man switch.

• 1:40:18Speaker 01

  Dead man switch.

• 1:40:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. That's how people maintain life. If you have information that's really sensitive, they have to trust you. If someone trusts you to not tell something that can ruin their empire of hundreds of billions of dollars and put them in jail possibly, they have to trust you, they're not gonna trust you, they don't trust you. But if they know that you know, that if you tell, they'll kill you. And then, they know that if they kill you, you have the dead man switch.

• 1:40:52Joe Rogan?

  Okay, we got a stalemate.

• 1:40:54Speaker 01

  So like, yeah.

• 1:40:54Joe Rogan?

  Let that motherfucker live.

• 1:40:55Speaker 01

  This is mutually assured destruction.

• 1:40:57Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:40:58Speaker 01

  Some kind of nuclear standoff.

• 1:41:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they're pointing missiles at each other. Missile, information missiles at each other.

• 1:41:07Joe Rogan?

  It's dark, dude. But it makes for a good spy novel. If just America, the way it actually really works, would be a crazy novel. You'd be like, this is nuts.

• 1:41:17Speaker 01

  Like a Tom Wolfe or something or another.

• 1:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Just with the, if you actually knew the actual facts, I bet it'd be quite fascinating. You know, like, we have these narratives that we assume are real about, even about history. And I bet a lot of them are full of shit, too, you know? Bill Murray was on the podcast, it was really interesting. And he read Bob Woodward's story about his good friend John Belushi.

• 1:41:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:44Joe Rogan?

  So he said, I read five pages of it, I was like, oh my god, they framed Nixon.

• 1:41:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:41:49Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 1:41:50Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, it isn't Bob Woodward, he's known to have been hired, or at least worked with CIA and, and.

• 1:41:55Joe Rogan?

  He was an intelligence agent.

• 1:41:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's an intelligent, and he builds, builds the narratives.

• 1:42:00Joe Rogan?

  It was also his first job as a journalist.

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:04Joe Rogan?

  Which is, how? How do the senior journalists not get that job? You're, you're literally going to take down a president.

• 1:42:10Speaker 01

  I didn't see that aspect of it in All the President's Men. Who was that, Dustin Hoffman and Robert Redford?

• 1:42:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:42:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, you don't get that, you don't get that.

• 1:42:20Joe Rogan?

  Cause that was before the internet. And like, they could get away with a movie like that.

• 1:42:24Speaker 01

  I ca- I kinda wonder if they, I don't, listen, I'm sure this.

• 1:42:30Speaker 01

  I'm, I actually, I don't know anything about. Do you know Tom Hanks?

• 1:42:35Joe Rogan?

  Tom Hanks the actor?

• 1:42:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't know him personally, no.

• 1:42:39Speaker 01

  I just wonder if every, every once in a while, when the government needs to explain something to the public in a way that puts us in the best light.

• 1:42:54Speaker 01

  If they commission a movie through Hollywood and stick Tom Hanks in it, man, he's just explained so much to us over the years. With Charlie Wilson's War, it's like, here's how the.

• 1:43:06Joe Rogan?

  Saving Private Ryan.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  How's how this, this goes.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  You know, Forrest Gump is kind of a nostalgia fest about the, you know, Vietnam War, it kind of makes light of it.

• 1:43:22Speaker 01

  You know, the Polar Express? I actually don't know about the Polar Express. Animated movie.

• 1:43:29Joe Rogan?

  Well, my friend Sam was telling me, my friend Sam Tripoli was telling me that, and I'd heard this, that during World War I, they had a problem that soldiers were not shooting at the enemy. They didn't want to kill them. They didn't want to be there, and so they were firing their guns, but not even aiming them at the enemy.

• 1:43:44Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:43:44Joe Rogan?

  So, to combat this, they started making movies. And then, in the movies, these war movies, the soldiers would shoot the enemy, and they were like, really heroes. And so then, in World War II, people were much more willing to shoot the enemy.

• 1:44:01Speaker 01

  Gee.

• 1:44:02Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that crazy?

• 1:44:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:03Joe Rogan?

  Like, so, the intelligence communities have been deeply involved in movie making from the very beginning. Because, back then, movies were the most powerful narrative in all of society.

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:44:15Joe Rogan?

  And there was no counter-narrative, not to speak of, nothing that went global, or even that was like, publicly mass-distributed. There was not, I mean, you might have people in coffee shops saying, "Hey, man, I read this," and this and that. But there were small groups of people, and most people were in the dark.

• 1:44:32Speaker 01

  Even if you had a counter-narrative, you'd be like Pete Seeger and get like, blacklisted in the fifth, you know, a musician.

• 1:44:38Joe Rogan?

  Or, you'd be Smedley Butler.

• 1:44:39Speaker 01

  Right, who was in a...

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  The end of his career.

• 1:44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:44:46Speaker 01

  It's a wonder he survived his own, his own tell-all there, with War is a Racket.

• 1:44:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:44:53Speaker 01

  And so, it didn't seem to do a whole lot, whatever, World War II is just, you know, six years after.

• 1:45:00Joe Rogan?

  I know, crazy. Isn't it crazy, though, that they made movies about war to encourage people to just shoot the enemy when they see them? Because most people, it's probably so abstract to them, like, they're from, like, especially if they had just gotten there from Europe, right? So imagine, if you're dealing with World War I, like, a lot of those people probably recently arrived in America.

• 1:45:25Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:45:25Joe Rogan?

  Right? And then, now you're being sent over to France? Now you're being sent over to Germany? Like, you're involved in a fucking war now? You're in a trench war?

• 1:45:35Speaker 01

  Well, I don't, America was pretty, was really not wanting to get in with World War I anyway.

• 1:45:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:45:41Speaker 01

  Was it the Lusitania? Some folks think that even might have been a, you know, a false.

• 1:45:46Joe Rogan?

  Do they think that was a false flag?

• 1:45:48Speaker 01

  Possibly.

• 1:45:49Joe Rogan?

  It could have been. Well, I mean, that's a long, there's a long history of false flags that got us into war. I mean, it goes back to Nero burning Rome, you know, and what they did with the Gulf of Tonkin incident is...

• 1:46:01Speaker 01

  What happened with Nero?

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, let's go, pull that up. Nero was so crazy, dude. You know one of the things Nero did?

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  What?

• 1:46:07Joe Rogan?

  He beat his pregnant wife to death, and then he found a slave that looked like his wife, a boy, castrated him, and said, "This is my wife," and paraded this person around. Sporus was his name.

• 1:46:20Speaker 01

  French stuff.

• 1:46:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and just fucked this poor dude with no dick, that he had his dick cut off, and then passed that guy off to someone else, and that guy eventually wound up committing suicide. Yeah. Yeah, Nero was a complete, total psychopath. So there was this one false flag incident. What, see if you can find what Nero did.

• 1:46:49Joe Rogan?

  You know, that was also like Hitler, Hitler burned the Reichstag. That was a false flag too. The Gulf of Tonkin one was a crazy one, because that was, what was that, sixty-seven, sixty-eight or something like that?

• 1:47:02Speaker 01

  So we'd already been in Vietnam for years at that point?

• 1:47:05Joe Rogan?

  No, no, that was the, we, they had some limited operations.

• 1:47:09Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:47:10Joe Rogan?

  But it wasn't like we were full-scale soldiers invading Vietnam.

• 1:47:13Speaker 01

  Right, is this precursor to like Tet- Tet Offensive or something?

• 1:47:17Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, but this was the incident that dragged us in. Burning Rome, burning Christians. Year sixty-four. During the Principate of Nero, the night between July eighteen and nineteen, the fire broke out in Rome. Within nine days, destroyed or badly damaged a substantial part of the city, leaving many dead or homeless. Rumors circulated the fire had been set by Nero, who, it was claimed, sought to divert blame from himself by holding responsible a new sect of aggressively proselytizing Jews known as Christians. Wow. Most recent scholarship has rejected the popular view of Nero as an arsonist who fiddled while Rome burned, in quotes. Largely ignored, however, has been the question of whether or not the Christians, generally

• 1:48:02Joe Rogan?

  regarded as innocent scapegoats of Nero, might in fact have played some role in the fire.

• 1:48:09Speaker 01

  There's controversy.

• 1:48:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, the chapter considers the problematic nature of Christianity and Roman attitudes towards Christians in the first century CE and suggests, based on this evidence, that Christian involvement is not out of the question. Not out of the question, but the narrative has always been that Nero did it to divert attention.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:28Joe Rogan?

  But the point is, it's like, look, they tried to do that with Operation Northwoods. It's one of the things that Kennedy vetoed. The Joint Chiefs of Staff signed off on an operation to do a false flag event where they were going to blow up a drone jetliner, blame it on Cuba, and they were going to arm Cuban friendlies and attack Guantanamo Bay. And they were doing this so that they could drag us into a war with Cuba. And Kennedy vetoed it. But it was signed by the Joint Chiefs of Staff. Like, they're like, "Rome's good."

• 1:48:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:48:57Joe Rogan?

  They're fucking smugglers.

• 1:48:58Speaker 01

  I mean, is this what the Bay of Pigs is?

• 1:49:01Joe Rogan?

  No, the Bay of Pigs is a different thing. The Bay of Pigs is after that. And the Bay of Pigs, the problem with the Bay of Pigs was that they planned it without Kennedy knowing.

• 1:49:10Speaker 01

  The men were already there.

• 1:49:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and then they had air support, and that was part of their mission, and then Kennedy denied air support.

• 1:49:17Speaker 01

  So they got slaughtered.

• 1:49:19Joe Rogan?

  And then the men on the ground got slaughtered.

• 1:49:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:22Joe Rogan?

  And so they, my friend Evan, who was a Ranger, he believes it's very possible that some of the people involved in that might have been involved in the assassination of Kennedy. Because they had a huge grudge, and these were, you know, hardened assassins.

• 1:49:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, if that's something that you'd go and mine the people out of that operation.

• 1:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, there was a lot of people that hated Kennedy after that.

• 1:49:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:46Joe Rogan?

  A lot of people. We don't think about it now because we think of Kennedy as like being loved, but there is people that celebrated when he got murdered.

• 1:49:55Speaker 01

  Gee.

• 1:49:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  That, I can't imagine.

• 1:50:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, well, it's like today, like if Trump got murdered, there's people that would celebrate. You know, or if Kamala Harris had gotten murdered on the campaign trail, there's people that would celebrate. There's gross people on both sides of the aisle.

• 1:50:13Speaker 01

  It, it is, I mean, it's, it's a sign of, something's not good when we're celebrating just death.

• 1:50:21Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:50:22Speaker 01

  I feel, you know, I feel like.

• 1:50:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's certainly a society that's lost its way. If that's the only solution is to kill people.

• 1:50:32Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 1:50:34Joe Rogan?

  Or if you don't like how the results turned out, you do everything you can to destroy that person. Which I think the most interesting version of that is happening right now in New York City. That Mondani guy that, who's essentially, like, at the very least a socialist, but kind of leans towards a communist direction.

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:50:56Joe Rogan?

  Um, both sides are trying to get rid of that guy. They're like, we can't allow him to be mayor.

• 1:51:00Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:00Joe Rogan?

  But like, but the people elected him. He won the Democratic primary and he's like forty-four percent ahead of everybody else in the process.

• 1:51:08Speaker 01

  So there's still, you, sorry, you gotta kind of fill me in.

• 1:51:11Joe Rogan?

  So the, the actual election is not until November, right? So they have the primary first, Mondani won. And he won over Andrew Cuomo, who used to be the governor of the state. And everybody thought he was gonna win.

• 1:51:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:23Joe Rogan?

  And then people are like, holy shit, this communist guy is gonna be the fucking mayor of New York City. And he's promising to jack up taxes and he's promising to have like city-funded grocery stores and like a lot of communist ideas. And so both the right and the left are like, we gotta get this guy out of here.

• 1:51:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:42Joe Rogan?

  There's no way. But it's like, if you believe in the democratic process, like, this is what the people wanted.

• 1:51:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:51:49Joe Rogan?

  Let's find out if it works. Let's find out if it sucks, if it makes New York City even worse, well then, in a few years, you get to vote again.

• 1:51:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was gonna say, how long is the, how long is mayorship?

• 1:52:02Joe Rogan?

  I think it's four years.

• 1:52:03Speaker 01

  Four years?

• 1:52:03Joe Rogan?

  Right? Is it a four-year term for mayor of New York City? It has to be, right? Cause in two years, you're basically just using the time to campaign for your reelection.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:11Joe Rogan?

  Cause you'd probably, by the time you got in there, it's like twenty-four months later, you gotta do it again.

• 1:52:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:52:16Joe Rogan?

  You're like, ugh.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  So that, what are the, what are the two sides doing to, uh? To bring him, to bring him down.

• 1:52:24Joe Rogan?

  Talk about getting him out of the country. There's people that are talking about, is there a way to, to expel him from the country?

• 1:52:31Speaker 01

  To revoke his citizenship?

• 1:52:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, there's, there's talk of that.

• 1:52:35Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people are trying to figure out any way to get rid of this guy.

• 1:52:38Speaker 01

  But he is a citizen, of course.

• 1:52:41Joe Rogan?

  But he wasn't born in America, which freaks people out. He's a Muslim, he's from Uganda, that's where he's from. He's only been in America for a certain amount of years, and he's only been a citizen, I think, for seven or eight years, something like that. Uh, and he won, you know, like, if you believe in this thing, like, that's what people voted for, and you gotta do better. That's the, that's the game.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  That's what the folks want, that's what the folks want.

• 1:53:05Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, the thing is, there's a lot of people that live in New York City, that live in, you know, any city, really, that don't feel like their needs are being met by the government.

• 1:53:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:15Joe Rogan?

  And they don't feel like the government has their best interests, and if some guy comes along with some radical ideas, that he says are the solution. Well, if the people believe him and it's not true, you've done a terrible job. You've done a terrible job of both distributing information and taking care of these people, because they're looking for any kind of a solution.

• 1:53:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:53:35Joe Rogan?

  Even a solution that might wind up causing a bunch of corporations to leave the city, and a bunch of money to leave the city, and a bunch of jobs to leave the city.

• 1:53:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, that doesn't, the, it's, things are, things are desperate, right?

• 1:53:52Speaker 01

  What, the politicians really controlled by like, like, three main things, like special interests, um,

• 1:54:01Speaker 01

  donor class, and multinational corporations, so anybody who looks like they're disentangled from any of those things is looking pretty appealing.

• 1:54:10Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, exactly, that's why he's way ahead, he's ahead by forty-four percent. Everybody else has like twelve percent, twenty percent, I think the, I think the highest one other than him in the most recent polling was Cuomo, who's still running somehow or another, I don't know how he's doing it, and it's like, is he an independent, like, how is Cuomo running, is that what it is? Yeah, so he's running as an independent because he couldn't win the Democratic primary?

• 1:54:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:33Joe Rogan?

  But he's still way behind this guy.

• 1:54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54:38Joe Rogan?

  According to polls, the problem with polls is of course, who the fuck answers polls? Not you, not me.

• 1:54:43Speaker 01

  No, not me. I think polls are just made so that news people have something to talk about.

• 1:54:48Joe Rogan?

  Well.

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  I wouldn't be surprised if they're the ones, well, they probably are. They probably go to the poll center and they say, "Run this poll, cuz I gotta, I gotta have something to talk about on Wednesday."

• 1:54:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, you could rig them, right? So you could rig them, like, say, if you went to a specific group of people that you knew leaned right, and you started asking them questions on things, or a specific group of people, a specific part of the city, that you knew was more progressive, you would go there if you wanted to rig polls, and then you push that narrative out, "This is how the people feel." It's like, okay, but who's answering? A very small percentage, and mostly dopes. Mostly dopes are answering polls, sorry if you answer polls, but most of the people have nothing else to do. Cuz if you call me.

• 1:55:30Speaker 01

  I never met anybody who's answered a poll.

• 1:55:32Joe Rogan?

  Bingo.

• 1:55:33Speaker 01

  I met a lot of folks, you met a lot of folks?

• 1:55:35Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:55:35Speaker 01

  You ever met anyone who answered a poll?

• 1:55:37Joe Rogan?

  No, and the presidential polls are the weird ones, cuz sometimes they're wildly wrong, and yet somebody got paid to make those polls.

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  I think, it's, I, it's the new, I think it's the news. I think the news is an incredibly lucrative business. It's an entertainment business. There's not news every day. There's, there's nothing, and they gotta run 24 hours.

• 1:56:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:00Speaker 01

  They're making up, they're making up, they should call it, they should call it the old, cuz it's always the same shit happening, man. Like, it's not even.

• 1:56:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:56:11Speaker 01

  It doesn't matter where you, where you're getting it either, it's, it.

• 1:56:15Joe Rogan?

  It's also a lot, I mean, CNN tried to separate themselves from that when they realized it was like financially kinda devastating to the company to have like really bad editorial comments, which is what they did, that's why they got rid of all their head newscasters.

• 1:56:30Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:56:30Joe Rogan?

  Cuz everybody was terrible, and everybody hated them, so they just got rid of most of them.

• 1:56:34Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:35Joe Rogan?

  And they tried to go objective with the news, but the problem is like, that way, people aren't outraged, and the only way people are gonna pay attention now, cuz you spoiled them, you gave them candy, and now you can't give them filet mignon, like, this is bullshit, I want Cheetos, I want snacks.

• 1:56:50Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:56:50Joe Rogan?

  Like, you've, you ruined them, and you gave them this for decades, and so now, if you want your ratings, you have to give them outrage. You have to have a bunch of people yelling at each other on TV so they pay attention.

• 1:57:02Speaker 01

  That, and like, the, I feel like the most. Like colorful people that they would have had on their things have gone indie now.

• 1:57:12Speaker 01

  You know, like Tucker Carlson has his podcast and like, um, let's see. Candace Owens was with like Daily Wire and now she's like got, she's got her own big thing and there's, and then there's smaller, there's smaller ones, you got like

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  Breaking Points is one.

• 1:57:36Joe Rogan?

  You know, the real problem is the left ones never succeed once they're fired. Um, the people that leave CNN, they're always like dismissed.

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  Well, the talent, I mean, we have to be talented to do, to do that, to sit there and look at a camera and just talk for like hours about, you gotta be really talented. So.

• 1:57:56Joe Rogan?

  You gotta be really dedicated and you have to, you have to understand how people are receiving what you're saying too. And the problem with like a CNN type job is that you're being told what to do. You show up, you read the news as written by these people, you have a teleprompter.

• 1:58:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:58:12Joe Rogan?

  You, you, you really can't stray very far from the narrative and you know, you're allowed to, you're allowed to elaborate inside the narrative as long as it fits with what CNN is trying to promote.

• 1:58:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:58:26Joe Rogan?

  And as soon as you deviate from that, you're, you're cooked, you're gone.

• 1:58:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. So then, so then there's really no, there's, there's not much career for you after that.

• 1:58:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because once you leave, everybody knows you're a propagandist. Like no one's ever gonna really truly believe you.

• 1:58:40Speaker 01

  And you weren't coming up with anything yourself. It was all fed to you.

• 1:58:43Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 1:58:44Speaker 01

  You're drawn.

• 1:58:45Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And then we also watched as you did elaborate on your own about whatever you thought about the narrative. You're a dope. You're a dope that's only on television because they put you there. You're not, you're not like, you didn't rise through the ranks. Like this is one of the most interesting people I've ever heard talk on television. Like no, it's not, it's not that at all.

• 1:59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:05Joe Rogan?

  You're not sincere. You're, you're, you know, we, what people like is authenticity. You know, you wanna know that someone is actually telling you what they think. And you don't get any of that from them. As soon as you don't get that from people, you never wanna listen. Whether you believe Tucker Carlson or not. He's being authentic, like what he's saying, he, he believes.

• 1:59:25Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:59:26Joe Rogan?

  This is who he is, and that's why he works, that's why it works outside of Fox News when he left.

• 1:59:31Speaker 01

  Those, those folks, all these folks who do, I think even Bill, Bill O'Reilly, after he got like kicked out, you know, from, from broadcast, he has, he's got his podcasts and stuff.

• 1:59:45Speaker 01

  If they, they really believe their, their stuff, man.

• 1:59:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, whether they're right or wrong.

• 1:59:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, it's not about that. I, I feel like the public has to understand that at the end of the day, this, these guys are, whether they believe it or not, this is entertainment. These guys are entertainers.

• 2:00:04Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 2:00:05Speaker 01

  Like, this isn't the new, they're telling you stuff, they're feeding it to you, and, and you gotta take things with a big ass grain of salt, because this stuff is, these are entertainers.

• 2:00:15Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's definitely that aspect of it, and if you're not entertaining, you're gonna get removed from your job, and you're gonna get replaced by someone who's better at your job.

• 2:00:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:23Joe Rogan?

  Or hotter.

• 2:00:26Joe Rogan?

  You know? Someone who's got a nice, a nice rack and a short skirt, and who's really good at talking, like, wow. I really, I just wanna watch her talk.

• 2:00:35Speaker 01

  Uh, that's, uh, I guess that's for the cable folks or something.

• 2:00:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, that's part of the gig, right? Like, how many of those ladies on Fox News just look hot as the sun, while they're telling you whatever the fuck they're supposed to be telling you?

• 2:00:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:00:51Joe Rogan?

  It's a special kinda hot, too. That, like, Ice Queen hot, that's a, that Republican, like, hard-nosed hot.

• 2:00:58Speaker 01

  I don't get it.

• 2:00:59Joe Rogan?

  Special kinda hot.

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  I don't get it, man. I don't, you'd...

• 2:01:07Speaker 01

  That's the, that's the cheapest, that's the cheapest thing they can pull over on the, on the news stations is to have, is to have sex appeal.

• 2:01:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but they've always get, I mean, that's how they sell cars, that's how they sell everything. People use that for everything, 'cause we're dumb.

• 2:01:23Speaker 01

  I, I'm optimistic, man. I think we're gonna wake up, we're gonna say, I don't care, I don't care what the hot lady on Fox says, they're murdering people.

• 2:01:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, yes. I'm optimistic, too, and I think, I think you're right. I think we are doing that right now. And I think, believe it or not, your songs are a, a part of that. Is, you know, whatever percentage...

• 2:01:48Joe Rogan?

  You you reach it's it's not zero. There's there's people that you reach like that. United Health, how many views did that get all told?

• 2:01:56Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  Has to be millions.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  It got a lot of looks.

• 2:01:59Joe Rogan?

  Millions and millions and millions. I know I sent it to a lot of people.

• 2:02:02Speaker 01

  Thing is, the tunes get, they get passed around. Some of them get passed around.

• 2:02:07Joe Rogan?

  Did I repost that? I reposted it, right?

• 2:02:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:09Joe Rogan?

  Okay. If I reposted, I can find out how many people just saw the one that I reposted.

• 2:02:15Speaker 01

  It'd be, it'd be a lot.

• 2:02:17Joe Rogan?

  It resonates, man. It's like people are fuck, how long ago was that?

• 2:02:21Speaker 01

  When you shared the list, that that one blew up too.

• 2:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that was a good one too. Um, how long ago was that? The United Health one?

• 2:02:30Speaker 01

  That was in, uh, December.

• 2:02:32Joe Rogan?

  What is it, Jamie?

• 2:02:33Speaker 05

  You posted it eight months ago.

• 2:02:34Joe Rogan?

  Eight months ago, alright. This is gonna take a while, cause I'm a chatty Cathy.

• 2:02:38Speaker 05

  It was December fifteenth, twenty twenty four.

• 2:02:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's not that long ago. Okay, so here's Fetterman. That's around that time. Let me find it. There ain't no you.

• 2:02:51Joe Rogan?

  Come on cocksucker, where are you?

• 2:02:55Speaker 01

  There's no shortage of stuff to make to make tunes on.

• 2:03:00Joe Rogan?

  How do you decide what to make tunes on? Do you just sit and and when something like resonates with you and pisses you off?

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  What something, yeah, when when something is like, you know, gee, gee, I got. I got something I could say about that. Um.

• 2:03:19Speaker 01

  Then that's that's when you that's when you do.

• 2:03:22Joe Rogan?

  I can't find it dude.

• 2:03:23Speaker 01

  Do a tune, but.

• 2:03:26Joe Rogan?

  I know it's on here. How would I how would I search for it?

• 2:03:28Speaker 05

  I don't think you can, because you're trying to see the views, you just.

• 2:03:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, found it. Here we go. Sorry. Okay, view insights.

• 2:03:39Joe Rogan?

  6,742,803 views. The watch time is 3 years, 104 days, 17 hours, 13 minutes, and 8 seconds.

• 2:03:55Speaker 01

  Folks got too much time on their hands.

• 2:03:58Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of people on the toilet right now, bro.

• 2:04:00Speaker 01

  They need something to listen to.

• 2:04:03Joe Rogan?

  You ever go to the toilet without your phone? It's weird. You just sit there like, wow, I'm alone.

• 2:04:08Speaker 01

  That's like a spacewalk without oxygen.

• 2:04:12Joe Rogan?

  No one knows how to do it anymore. Yeah, it's, um...

• 2:04:16Speaker 01

  Read the Dr. Bronner's bottle.

• 2:04:18Joe Rogan?

  But the thing is like that, the 6 million plus people that heard that, like that, that affects the narrative. And then, you know, the list one, that affects the narrative. And this one that you did on philanthropy, that affects the narrative. Is there's, everyone's like throwing their coins into this big pile, trying to figure this out. And it more so now than I think has ever happened at any time in human history. There's more discussion. It's just, we're so upset that it's not fixed. And it's on its way in the right direction, I think. It's just not satisfying the pace in which progress is happening.

• 2:05:00Speaker 01

  Everybody can get on now, too. I mean, like, that's, it's just, like, I prop up my iPhone and, like, play a tune. Everyone can just, like, get and phone in front of their face and, like, get it out there, you know?

• 2:05:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, anyone can now, which is great. I mean, it allows guys like you to just, all of a sudden, have a following. You know, all you have to do is have some talent, some talent, some creativity, some hard work. Bam, there you go. It's kind of cool. I mean, that's the beautiful side of social media.

• 2:05:35Speaker 01

  It's good. There's no, there's no rules as far as, especially in the music industry and stuff. There's no rules anymore. Anyone who tells you that they know what to do or that they know what they're doing, they're so full of shit, dog. Nobody knows what they're doing.

• 2:05:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:50Speaker 01

  And like, we want, we want people to know, because we want to ask, like, what could I do to, you know, to have, to be successful or whatever? Then, nobody knows.

• 2:06:00Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:06:00Speaker 01

  Nobody knows, and there's no gatekeepers or anything like that. All you have to do is want to play music.

• 2:06:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  And then go and do it on your phone and see if anyone likes you. And if they like you, you're, you know, that's good.

• 2:06:14Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  Then everybody will come to you and say, I know how to make this bigger and they don't know what they're talking about either.

• 2:06:20Joe Rogan?

  No, they're generally they're vampires and they're trying to take a piece.

• 2:06:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:25Joe Rogan?

  They're trying to clamp on to you.

• 2:06:27Speaker 01

  Oh, they they come out of the woodwork, dog.

• 2:06:30Joe Rogan?

  Have you had people offer you a bunch of money?

• 2:06:32Speaker 01

  Not a bunch, but they'll they'll offer you a little for a lot, you know?

• 2:06:37Joe Rogan?

  A little for a lot, yeah. They want your future, right?

• 2:06:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, they'll go, I, you know, here's. I mean, there are all sorts of folks in the in the early days coming through labels and stuff going, here's, we'll give you ten grand for like thirty songs or something like that. And it's like, this is insulting.

• 2:06:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:57Speaker 01

  I don't want any of this. I don't want any, I don't need any of this.

• 2:07:00Joe Rogan?

  Oliver Anthony was going through that right after Rich Men from Richmond.

• 2:07:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:07:04Joe Rogan?

  Richmond, North of Richmond, a song came out. Like, they just came after him with all this money.

• 2:07:09Speaker 01

  Oh, they will.

• 2:07:10Joe Rogan?

  All these ass, all this fucking promises.

• 2:07:13Speaker 01

  They will.

• 2:07:14Joe Rogan?

  All this money.

• 2:07:15Speaker 01

  They give you so much upfront and you don't even, like, if you don't know, it's just a big ass loan that you're never gonna recoup and then you're you're not even, you're not living off your own dough at that point. You're just living off of borrowed money like everybody else in the States.

• 2:07:27Joe Rogan?

  And you're attached to them forever.

• 2:07:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:07:30Joe Rogan?

  You're attached to them forever.

• 2:07:32Speaker 01

  They own your masters, you'll never see it back. I mean, I I was signed to a label when I was like twenty-two. I've been through that, all that crap.

• 2:07:40Joe Rogan?

  How old are you now?

• 2:07:41Speaker 01

  I'm forty-seven.

• 2:07:42Joe Rogan?

  Are you really? You look great.

• 2:07:43Speaker 01

  No, I'm gonna be thirty-three this year.

• 2:07:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I believe you. I was like, man, kids living good.

• 2:07:51Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:07:53Speaker 01

  No, I'm just joshing you.

• 2:07:55Joe Rogan?

  But, you know, this is a new time where you really can become hugely successful and get a gigantic following with no one attached to you.

• 2:08:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:06Joe Rogan?

  Where you don't, you don't have to have all those people put, they're not gonna help you.

• 2:08:09Speaker 01

  No, they don't. Too many cooks in the kitchen.

• 2:08:12Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:08:12Speaker 01

  Way too many people wanting to sign off.

• 2:08:14Joe Rogan?

  People eating at the dinner plate.

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  And dude, whenever anybody gives you mu, like, if the label comes in, let's say Chris took, let's say he took the deal, you know, or or whatever, if Oliver Anthony took the big deal.

• 2:08:28Speaker 01

  Then he's got all these people up there in the office with tax write-off MacBooks telling him what to do with his music because they opened their wallet. And they're gonna have to give you notes. They're entitled to give you their opinion at that point and he wouldn't be able to just do whatever the hell he wants to do.

• 2:08:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:46Speaker 01

  You know, and I think it's so important for artists to be able to do whatever the hell they wanna do cuz that's the only way they can be themselves.

• 2:08:52Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  And then that's the only way you can be successful is to completely be yourself at all times, one hundred percent. Nothing but yourself.

• 2:08:59Joe Rogan?

  And you see that one thing that does happen when people do take the money is that part goes away. Cuz even though you think you're kinda sorta being yourself, everybody knows you're not totally. You're not totally being yourself anymore.

• 2:09:13Speaker 01

  And dough will change your life in a, in a, in a way that, that you might not like be ready for or something. It's gonna, you're gonna think, I got this dough, now I can, I can leave this town I don't like, or I can get the house that I was wanting. When it was, really, it was, it was being in that town and kinda having things, difficult pressures around you and stuff that was creating these diamonds. That was putting you in this situation to make good art and stuff like that.

• 2:09:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:42Speaker 01

  And you take away all your discomfort and then realize you can't make art and you're not happy. And, and then you start getting nostalgic about the good old days when you were broke and shit like that. It's just, it's better, it's, it's better to just take only what you need.

• 2:10:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, then, there's also the problem, once you become successful, of worrying about not being successful anymore. About maintaining it.

• 2:10:09Speaker 01

  That's terrifying, sure.

• 2:10:10Joe Rogan?

  I gotta keep this going. Like, I can't, I can't fall off. I can't be less successful. I can't, I, I used to be poor and now I've got money. I gotta make sure this doesn't go away. And so you like temper your thoughts and you, you measure, you're like, you're measured in what you say.

• 2:10:27Speaker 01

  No, no, it's, your measure of success is like, how much can I be myself and, uh, and be happy, be happy that way. If you can still be one hundred percent yourself all the way to the end of the line, then that's your success.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:10:43Speaker 01

  Like.

• 2:10:44Joe Rogan?

  That's, but that's a smart way of looking at things. Most people look at things in terms of like, what is the way that's the most profitable? You know, so they'll avoid certain controversies.

• 2:10:54Speaker 01

  But we know that the like, we know even from talking about like people whose business, whose art is money. It creates misery to be chasing the bank account, to constantly have the dough. You know, like you create a wake of, you create bad art, alright, your albums start to suck. You might be getting in bigger, bigger places and stuff like that, but yeah, it's gonna, it's gonna fall off and when it does, you know.

• 2:11:23Speaker 01

  Then, then, then you have like some existential problems to deal with at that point.

• 2:11:28Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's always the devil's bargain, right? There's all that, that fucking story is as old as time. That's the Robert Johnson story, right? They thought he sold his soul.

• 2:11:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:11:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:41Speaker 01

  Van Halen definitely sold his soul to the devil.

• 2:11:43Joe Rogan?

  You think so?

• 2:11:45Speaker 01

  No, I, I don't.

• 2:11:46Joe Rogan?

  You look like Eddie Van Halen, dude.

• 2:11:48Speaker 01

  What?

• 2:11:49Joe Rogan?

  You look a little like Eddie Van Halen.

• 2:11:50Speaker 01

  I fucking love Eddie Van Halen.

• 2:11:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he's the man.

• 2:11:52Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 2:11:53Joe Rogan?

  He was the man.

• 2:11:54Speaker 01

  He's the Robert Johnson of the, of the late seventies. Him and Angus Young sold his soul.

• 2:11:58Joe Rogan?

  Isn't it funny though, that that story was like always around? The story of selling your soul for success?

• 2:12:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:07Joe Rogan?

  It's an interesting metaphor.

• 2:12:09Speaker 01

  It doesn't, but it doesn't make any sense as far as like Robert Johnson, he's like, he sold his soul, I guess so he could play and then not be successful in his lifetime and die poor. And then we would all find him later and enjoy it.

• 2:12:22Joe Rogan?

  I think the thought was that he was so much better than everybody else. There's no way he could have gone that far ahead without some help.

• 2:12:30Speaker 01

  Right. He's spooky good.

• 2:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:32Speaker 01

  He's spooky good. He's working in the future.

• 2:12:34Joe Rogan?

  But that's always, there's always guys like that, like Hendrix. If anybody sold their soul, it's Hendrix.

• 2:12:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:39Joe Rogan?

  Not that I think he did, but it's like when that guy came around, everybody was like, what the fuck is going on?

• 2:12:45Speaker 01

  In every generation, there's a player, man.

• 2:12:47Joe Rogan?

  Yep.

• 2:12:47Speaker 01

  And I mean, maybe you could trace the line. Johnson, Hendrix, that's skipping a few.

• 2:12:52Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:52Speaker 01

  But to Hendrix, Eddie Van Halen, and then you've got like Steve Vai.

• 2:12:57Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:12:57Speaker 01

  And Joe Satriani and like these, these virtu, these virtuosos. Stevie Ray Vaughan, so important to Texas too, Stevie. Um.

• 2:13:06Joe Rogan?

  We have a photo of him onstage, uh, at our club. Cause, you know, I owned this place that used to be a theater that he performed at.

• 2:13:14Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:13:15Joe Rogan?

  And there's a photo of him onstage in nineteen eighty-three. So as you're walking to the stage, there's a photo of Stevie Ray Vaughan onstage. In his back.

• 2:13:23Speaker 01

  He's so cool. I don't know if you've seen like him at like Austin City Limits, slinging his guitar behind his back.

• 2:13:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he was the coolest.

• 2:13:29Speaker 01

  Playing with his teeth. He's got all his scarfs and stuff.

• 2:13:32Joe Rogan?

  I almost got to, uh, drive him once when I was driving limos, but he wouldn't take limos.

• 2:13:37Speaker 01

  What did he want?

• 2:13:37Joe Rogan?

  I drove Jeff Beck. He wouldn't take limos.

• 2:13:39Speaker 01

  Jeff Beck?

• 2:13:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he, he only took cabs.

• 2:13:41Speaker 01

  Cat, okay.

• 2:13:42Joe Rogan?

  They'd get him a limo. He's like, eh, I'm getting in a cab.

• 2:13:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:13:45Joe Rogan?

  He'd hop in a cab and talk to the cab driver. He didn't want to be Mr. Fancy in a fucking limo.

• 2:13:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:51Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that interesting?

• 2:13:52Speaker 01

  Salt of the earth, dude.

• 2:13:53Joe Rogan?

  I was pissed though. It's like, fuck.

• 2:13:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:56Joe Rogan?

  I almost got to drive Stevie Ray Vaughan.

• 2:13:59Speaker 01

  That is one of those, one of those talents every generation.

• 2:14:02Joe Rogan?

  But it also shows you how dumb limo drivers are. Like the, the companies, like you let a fucking psycho like me, a twenty-one-year-old maniac, drive one of the greatest guitars of all time. Like I was a bad driver. Like I was a reckless kid. Like all of a sudden I had this job driving limos because I wore a suit. Like you're gonna trust me?

• 2:14:23Speaker 01

  Well, I was.

• 2:14:23Joe Rogan?

  With Stevie Ray Vaughan?

• 2:14:24Speaker 01

  I mean, safer than the helicopter pilots and stuff.

• 2:14:28Joe Rogan?

  In the end, yes. No, I'm just kidding. I mean, I was a good driver when I was driving limos, but it's kinda crazy. Thank you. But it is kinda crazy that they let a twenty-one-year-old me just at, at the helm of a car with one of the greatest musicians of all time in the backseat.

• 2:14:43Speaker 01

  It's always, it's fun to think back on that, on that. Like when I was, when I was eighteen, I, I, I did a radio program for KDYN Real Country Radio every Saturday morning. It was called Dial a Deal, where people call in. It was basically like an on-air Craigslist. You know, but I was alone at the station after football games. You know, football game would be like Friday night. Go to bed all beat up, wake up at like five AM, go into the station, record the obituaries real quick, because those are gonna run on, on Saturday. And then. And then do like a, you know, an on-air Craigslist radio program and you're just like seventeen years old with the entire radio station to yourself.

• 2:15:27Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:15:27Speaker 01

  I was, I was a total dumbass too. I could have been like, anyway, here's Grand Funk Railroad, you know, but.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Did you have a specific list of things that you were supposed to play?

• 2:15:37Speaker 01

  Uh, the list was like programmed in and then you had to record weather. So you would pull up the National Weather Service on the, on the screen and then you would record yourself doing the weather saying, you know, winds are gonna be southeast, south, southeast, northwest at fifteen miles an hour or whatever. You do the obituaries. But, um, no, you didn't actually DJ. It was just like, you would hit the spacebar, music would start playing and be like, okay, folks, if you can't tell by the music, I'll go ahead and tell you myself. It's time for Dial-A-Deal. Remember, our numbers up here are six, six, seven, four, five, six, seven, or toll-free at eight, eight, eight, three, two, five, K D Y N. That's eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, eight, three, two, five, K D Y N. Remember, no commercial real estate advertisement. Please let me get calls to

• 2:16:22Speaker 01

  once per program. And keep in mind, I can't always keep track of these numbers up here myself. So if you remember them on your end, you're doing me and you a favor. Let's get back to the dialing and the dealing. And then people would call in and they'd be like, I'm looking for my dog. And I'd be like, somebody find that dog. And then, you know, list off their number or, uh.

• 2:16:44Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever play any of your songs?

• 2:16:46Speaker 01

  No. No, it was a classic country radio station. So I'm up there listening to like Willie, Waylon, Hank Senior, Hank Junior. And then also they were playing, they were playing like some, like I remember Brad Paisley was being played on air and he just shredded. But, no, I couldn't, I couldn't. I was in a grunge band at the time. I couldn't play.

• 2:17:08Joe Rogan?

  Wait, really?

• 2:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think that, yeah, the, I couldn't put, once I printed out the track listing, for the record that I had made, I was, I would make CD records and sell them at school, like five bucks a po- I made more money selling records in high school than I ever did as an adult. But you'd, I'd printed out all the song listing. Anyway, the album was called Mom, I'm Gay. And all the, uh.

• 2:17:35Speaker 01

  I left a bunch of them like at the radio station. I remember the guy who was running it. He came to me and he was like, "Did you print these out? Are these yours?" And it was just kinda awkward after that.

• 2:17:48Speaker 01

  A small town in Arkansas, it's kinda far out.

• 2:17:52Joe Rogan?

  That's funny.

• 2:17:53Speaker 01

  But, you know.

• 2:17:58Speaker 01

  Folks, folks will let a, let a young person do all kinds of stuff. I guess they see an aptitude in you. They trust you, so they let you drive a limo.

• 2:18:07Joe Rogan?

  I think they just needed a job. They needed someone to do the job. It's that simple. And most people would only temporarily keep that job and they would leave.

• 2:18:16Speaker 01

  Right, right. High turnover.

• 2:18:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:18:19Speaker 01

  There's high turnover at the radio station, cause we weren't making any dough.

• 2:18:22Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:18:23Speaker 01

  You know.

• 2:18:24Joe Rogan?

  What year was this?

• 2:18:25Speaker 01

  This was in nineteen twenty-seven.

• 2:18:28Joe Rogan?

  Bah.

• 2:18:29Speaker 01

  No, uh, two thousand ten?

• 2:18:33Joe Rogan?

  I used to do a lot of radio when I was, uh, young and doing the road. So I'd do like morning radio shows in the middle of nowhere.

• 2:18:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:42Joe Rogan?

  And it was the only way to promote things. Like say if you're gonna do some gig in Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, like you get on local radio, you tell everybody, drive time radio, so you're on the air at like six thirty in the morning.

• 2:18:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:54Joe Rogan?

  And let everybody know you're going. Their, radio was a weird thing, man, cause it was like a local connection and all that stuff is kinda gone now.

• 2:19:02Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 2:19:03Joe Rogan?

  You know, local connection used to be fun. It was, there was something about listening to the local radio in the morning when you're on your way to work. It was kinda cool.

• 2:19:12Speaker 01

  It was great.

• 2:19:13Joe Rogan?

  And you knew that all, most of your friends were listening to.

• 2:19:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:19:17Joe Rogan?

  You know.

• 2:19:17Speaker 01

  They had a program called, like, I, I forget what it was, but on every morning, they would go through the sponsors of the radio station, which were all local businesses, and they would say, "Here's a cup of coffee for Burns Drug." And it was just like a call out to Burns Drug, Burns Pharmacy or whatever, and then you'd hear the sound of a coffee cup. The obituaries ran, you'd listen to them, you'd be like, "Oh, Janine died. Damn it." "We gotta go to the memorial." Uh, they would tell what the hillbillies, like the mascot was the hillbillies and like how high school football was doing and stuff like that.

• 2:19:54Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if anybody's creating that in podcasts. I wonder, I wonder if there's any good local podcasts that are just about the community. That you could like tune into every day, like here's the news, you know?

• 2:20:08Speaker 01

  I might have to start one.

• 2:20:09Joe Rogan?

  Why not?

• 2:20:10Speaker 01

  This local, anonymous and local.

• 2:20:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, just don't even say it's you, make up another name.

• 2:20:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:20:17Speaker 01

  This is Bob Butts.

• 2:20:19Joe Rogan?

  And people go, I know who that is.

• 2:20:21Speaker 01

  No you don't.

• 2:20:22Joe Rogan?

  I heard that dude.

• 2:20:23Speaker 01

  I'm not who you.

• 2:20:24Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna do a different voice?

• 2:20:25Speaker 01

  I know you, but you don't know me.

• 2:20:30Joe Rogan?

  Are you gonna change your voice? You should do that.

• 2:20:33Speaker 01

  No, I can't.

• 2:20:33Joe Rogan?

  Do the local news with one of those things like an FBI informant. We went into the house at four thirty in the morning. You know? You know what I mean?

• 2:20:42Speaker 01

  Those are spooky.

• 2:20:43Joe Rogan?

  When they have those people on TV with their face blacked out?

• 2:20:46Speaker 01

  Those Vice?

• 2:20:47Joe Rogan?

  Are you sure that the government was involved? One hundred percent. They had to know. The information came down from the top.

• 2:20:54Speaker 01

  Show their face.

• 2:20:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, show their face. They're gonna get him killed.

• 2:21:01Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 2:21:01Joe Rogan?

  Um, how many, do you do a lot of live gigs?

• 2:21:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:07Joe Rogan?

  How many live gigs do you do? Do you do like, in a week, do you do a bunch? Like, how do you do it?

• 2:21:11Speaker 01

  No, I just scheduled tours, so like tomorrow I'll announce a tour and I think it's like twenty something dates and then I'll go out for two months and, and play, you know?

• 2:21:26Joe Rogan?

  You just play solo? Do you bring someone with you?

• 2:21:28Speaker 01

  No, I bring a band.

• 2:21:29Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 2:21:30Speaker 01

  A whole band.

• 2:21:32Speaker 01

  And then, right now I've just been in festival season, so I just played the Newport Folk Fest. Shout out Newport.

• 2:21:38Joe Rogan?

  Do you do any of these songs, like United Health?

• 2:21:40Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:21:41Joe Rogan?

  You do all of them?

• 2:21:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:42Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 2:21:42Speaker 01

  I got, cause I'm just always putting out albums, like, yeah, like on Friday I'll put out another record too.

• 2:21:49Joe Rogan?

  How many albums do you have so far?

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  Like five or six.

• 2:21:54Speaker 01

  You know, kind. I wrote like a hundred songs in twenty-four and just like put them all out. And that's what's great about being indie is like you can just, you just put out music as soon as you make it.

• 2:22:07Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:22:08Speaker 01

  So, um, so there's, but there's a lot of tunes to choose from, right? Usually, you know, on the set, I'll play a lot of these, uh, a lot of these topical ones. And then bring the band up and then we'll play the other records that I got. But no, I was just at New, Newport and then we did Edmonton Folk Fest. And here in a little bit, I'll do Farm Aid and Healing Appalachia. Farm Aid was, like last year around this time, John Cougar Mellencamp sent me an email and was like, Jesse, I would like you to play at Farm Aid. But it was from a weird email address and I didn't believe it was him, but it, it was totally him.

• 2:22:51Speaker 01

  Just like emailing through his like girlfriend's email or something.

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 2:22:55Speaker 01

  And so I like, I showed it to, uh, to one of the, like one of my friends he has managed. And he was like, I'll, I'll vet this out. We'll see if this is legit. And sure enough, it was anyway, go down to Farm Aid and that's like one of the first gigs that I play as this iteration of myself.

• 2:23:20Speaker 01

  But got to, you know, got to meet a lot of cool people and, and get to be friends with, with a lot of them too. Lucas Nelson is, it was very cool to meet him last year and now I think we'll be doing a tune together here before too long, but.

• 2:23:34Joe Rogan?

  Nice.

• 2:23:36Speaker 01

  Him, I got to meet Charlie over there at Farm Aid.

• 2:23:40Joe Rogan?

  Charlie?

• 2:23:41Speaker 01

  Charlie Crockett.

• 2:23:42Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Charlie's awesome.

• 2:23:43Speaker 01

  He's super.

• 2:23:44Joe Rogan?

  I really enjoyed talking to him.

• 2:23:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, he's great.

• 2:23:47Joe Rogan?

  He was a great guest. What a wild life that guy's lived.

• 2:23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:23:50Joe Rogan?

  That's like, that comes out in his music. There's something about like hard living, like living an authentically difficult life. That like you hear it in the way they sing.

• 2:24:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:02Joe Rogan?

  You hear it. It's real.

• 2:24:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:04Joe Rogan?

  You know, like there's like an intangible element to certain songs. You know?

• 2:24:10Speaker 01

  It's how it be.

• 2:24:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:12Joe Rogan?

  Well, AI is not gonna fix that. They're not gonna, you know what I mean? Like, AI is not gonna overcome that.

• 2:24:18Speaker 01

  No, I don't know.

• 2:24:19Joe Rogan?

  That's the, maybe the only thing that AI is not gonna overcome.

• 2:24:22Speaker 01

  I would be worried. I don't, I don't understand why musicians are...

• 2:24:27Joe Rogan?

  You know, they're, they're making, like, let me, I'm gonna send you something, Jamie. I don't know if you've seen this, where they made a female indie, like, emo, whatever it would be, band lady. And it's really fucking good.

• 2:24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:24:43Joe Rogan?

  Like, you listen to it, and you're like, holy shit. I sent it to, uh, Patrick, uh, from, uh, The Black Keys.

• 2:24:49Speaker 01

  Right, Patrick Carney.

• 2:24:50Joe Rogan?

  And, uh, and he was, hi- hi- his answer was like, "Pop music is AI has been for a while. Good thing I suck at drums and make it human."

• 2:25:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:25:02Joe Rogan?

  Uh, I'm gonna send this to Jamie, because you, you, you hear it, and you're like, oh my god, this could be a fucking giant hit. And the crazy thing is that AI makes this in seconds.

• 2:25:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:25:14Joe Rogan?

  I mean, in literal seconds. Like, you watch this guy put in the prompts. You watch it m- make this song, and then you listen to the song, and you're like...

• 2:25:24Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:25:25Joe Rogan?

  Oh my god. And it's better than most of these songs. Like, listen to this. Create a square avatar of a fictitious female alternative slash indie singer and a name for her. Wow, Sadie Winters. Sadie Winters, okay. The song is about walking away from someone who never really saw her worth. She's just gonna create the song lyrics. Look at that, dude.

• 2:25:45Speaker 03

  Wait, how many seconds was that?

• 2:25:47Joe Rogan?

  That was like, about four seconds. Look at that. That's got a bridge.

• 2:25:51Speaker 03

  Did you even read any of these? Or you don't care?

• 2:25:54Joe Rogan?

  I don't care. Put my lyrics in.

• 2:25:56Speaker 03

  The lyrics that happened in four seconds?

• 2:25:58Joe Rogan?

  Yes. And then hit create. Let's listen.

• 2:26:00Speaker 03

  This is the world premiere.

• 2:26:13Speaker 03

  She's a good singer.

• 2:26:14Joe Rogan?

  Good singer. Ooh, that's nice. Pretty good. Where are we, Rick? Where have we found ourselves? How crazy is that? I mean, it's pretty amazing. Look at that. Jewel even says, Jewel goes, "Wow, it's a great melody."

• 2:26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, listen. Artists, everything that can be replaced will be replaced, okay? And pop music was already AI. Patrick has a great point.

• 2:26:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:45Speaker 01

  I don't think, I don't think artists, if you, what you're making,

• 2:26:52Speaker 01

  I don't think you got nothing to worry about.

• 2:26:55Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's not a worry. It's, I mean, for some people, I'm sort of worried, but it also is just a concern that there's a new element of society. That there's creativities being replaced in, at least a form, like in front of our eyes. Like, regardless of what you think about pop music, there are some people that are making pop music as a creative endeavor, and that just did it way better than they do, and did it like, like that.

• 2:27:23Speaker 01

  They'll have to find something else to do.

• 2:27:25Joe Rogan?

  They'll have to find something else to do.

• 2:27:27Speaker 01

  They'll have to listen to something else in JCPenney.

• 2:27:32Speaker 01

  Talk.

• 2:27:33Joe Rogan?

  Who still goes to JCPenney? I mean, are they still around? Is there a JCPenney?

• 2:27:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:37Joe Rogan?

  At where you are?

• 2:27:38Speaker 01

  I go to JCPenney.

• 2:27:39Joe Rogan?

  I'm not knocking it. I'd go if I needed something. I'm just saying I haven't seen one in a long time.

• 2:27:44Speaker 01

  They're, they're out there.

• 2:27:45Joe Rogan?

  You know, I see Targets everywhere. I don't see JCPenney anywhere.

• 2:27:47Speaker 01

  I was just, the music like that always, yeah, I feel like I'm in a, yeah, I feel like I'm in Academy or, or...

• 2:27:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:54Joe Rogan?

  Right, you're buying sneakers somewhere.

• 2:27:56Speaker 01

  They just need something to go in the background, some non-confrontational music to

• 2:28:03Speaker 01

  carry you through.

• 2:28:04Joe Rogan?

  But what you said, I think is right, that if you can be replaced, you will be replaced.

• 2:28:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:09Joe Rogan?

  All things that can be replaced will be replaced.

• 2:28:11Speaker 01

  It's how it has always been, as long as man has been around. Everything that can be replaced will be replaced, but there are things that are irreplaceable.

• 2:28:19Joe Rogan?

  Right. Yeah. I mean, that's kind of in every...

• 2:28:25Joe Rogan?

  Every new iteration of technology, we're seeing things get replaced, right?

• 2:28:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:28:28Joe Rogan?

  Like, when I was a bit, a kid, VHS was the newest technology, like, oh my god, you could watch a movie at home.

• 2:28:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:35Joe Rogan?

  No one ever thought Blockbuster was ever gonna go away. Of course, there's always gonna be a Blockbuster.

• 2:28:39Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:28:39Joe Rogan?

  Every Friday night, everybody goes to Blockbuster to find a movie to watch. Gone.

• 2:28:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:43Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't exist anymore. Gone like that. Like, real quick. Streaming, internet speeds, pickup, it's over.

• 2:28:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:28:49Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I mean, remember record sales? Oh, my goodness. They would be like, millions and millions and millions, just from selling records. Now, it all went away. Napster came along, and some people freaked out, and, you know, some people lost a lot of fans, because they freaked out, too. Like, to try to stop the tide of inevitability.

• 2:29:06Speaker 01

  I mean, didn't, Hetfield and, I mean, Metallica was eventually kind of right about what they said about Napster, right?

• 2:29:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they knew. Yeah.

• 2:29:17Speaker 01

  They knew what was...

• 2:29:18Joe Rogan?

  Well, they knew it was going away.

• 2:29:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:29:20Joe Rogan?

  It was all going away. I mean, everybody kind of understood that this is, if you're logical and objective, you could pretend, like, oh, don't worry, we're gonna be fine. But if you're logical and objective, you go, oh, this is just the first bullet that landed

• 2:29:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:29:34Joe Rogan?

  in this never-ending war

• 2:29:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:29:36Joe Rogan?

  with, with digital information. Like, you're not gonna be able to prevent this from happening.

• 2:29:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think the record companies have figured out how to make money off of streaming, and to make sure that the artist probably doesn't get all that much of it.

• 2:29:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is the beautiful thing about being independent. If you're independent, you can make money off of streaming. And if you're independent, you had all of your touring revenue, which is really where it's at. You had all of it.

• 2:30:01Speaker 01

  You had to make enough to pay for another tour.

• 2:30:03Joe Rogan?

  Well, this is what's cra- well, it depends on how successful you are. But this is what's really crazy about some of the deals that some of these artists are signing, where the label gets a giant percentage of their touring money, which didn't used to be the case. It used to be like, an artist, like-

• 2:30:18Speaker 01

  They gotta find a way to pull it in somehow, if they're not selling the records.

• 2:30:21Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. They get a piece of merch, they get a piece of this, they get a piece of everything. They just own you.

• 2:30:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:30:26Joe Rogan?

  And what value do they provide, other than you getting the security of saying, I'm on Warner Brothers?

• 2:30:31Speaker 01

  Just standing in the way every time you try to put out an album. They go, I don't hear a hit here. It's like, well, 'cause there are none, okay? Wait for the next record. It's out in two months, you know? But they wanna make as, as much as they possibly can off of one record, and the one rec- it puts an immense amount of pressure on an artist without- Without developing the artist at all. It's, what's Hunter, the music industry is a shallow money trench where good men die like dogs, you know?

• 2:31:06Speaker 01

  It's a racket.

• 2:31:08Joe Rogan?

  But don't you think that now less of it? Cause there are people like you out there, there's quote, you know, Tyler, the creator, didn't he make most of his? Everything was just created by himself online, right?

• 2:31:18Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 2:31:19Joe Rogan?

  Isn't that the case?

• 2:31:21Joe Rogan?

  You don't know? You don't know?

• 2:31:23Speaker 01

  But you.

• 2:31:24Speaker 05

  That's too hard, I don't know, who knows?

• 2:31:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, is it a weird one?

• 2:31:27Speaker 05

  I, him specifically, I don't know, but I would say that's the story that's being told.

• 2:31:32Joe Rogan?

  Okay, but some people have done it, right? Oliver Anthony for sure did it.

• 2:31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:31:36Joe Rogan?

  And it's, you know, it's a new pathway. If you have something that really resonates, like your United Health song, or any of your songs, like, that's all you need. You know, and then that one thing could change everything, and then people listen.

• 2:31:48Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm. Totally.

• 2:31:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And the fact that you're able to do it completely independently, you're able to have like a truly authentic voice, like, it's like, when you sing about, who's the guy that created it, that doesn't give a fuck? What's his name?

• 2:32:05Speaker 01

  Richard T. Burke.

• 2:32:06Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Richard T. Burke. You can sing about Richard T. Burke doesn't give a fuck, like, it's, no one's in your ear.

• 2:32:15Speaker 01

  Nobody's telling you to be careful.

• 2:32:16Joe Rogan?

  No, yeah, no one's, so like, I'm here and I'm like, yeah, you know, it, it, people know. They know when something is authentic, it's real weird. They're fucking, the way people tune into a song, it's, there's something going on with songs, you know? It's, it's not just like a bunch of music and a bunch of lyrics, like, it changes the way you feel.

• 2:32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:40Joe Rogan?

  It's a drug.

• 2:32:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:42Joe Rogan?

  It's a weird, like, a good song is like a good drug.

• 2:32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, dude, have you heard Free Bird?

• 2:32:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, fuck yeah.

• 2:32:47Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 2:32:48Joe Rogan?

  I've heard that song about a thousand, more than a thousand times.

• 2:32:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:52Joe Rogan?

  A hundred thousand times, maybe even.

• 2:32:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you don't think music's a drug, listen to Free Bird, listen to.

• 2:32:57Joe Rogan?

  Listen to that fucking guitar solo at the end.

• 2:32:59Speaker 01

  Running with the devil.

• 2:33:00Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:33:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, a whole lot of love.

• 2:33:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's fired up, dog.

• 2:33:10Joe Rogan?

  There's songs that change the way you feel, that if that was a drug, that would be a very valuable drug.

• 2:33:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:16Joe Rogan?

  You know?

• 2:33:17Speaker 01

  They're little mood capsules, man.

• 2:33:20Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:33:20Speaker 01

  "I wanna feel melancholy, here's Yesterday" by The Beatles.

• 2:33:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, "Yesterday." Yeah, there's a bunch of songs like that. "Captain Jack." You know?

• 2:33:32Speaker 01

  "Captain Jack."

• 2:33:33Joe Rogan?

  "Captain Jack Will Get You High Tonight."

• 2:33:35Speaker 01

  Oh, I was thinking of "Captain Fantastic," Elton John.

• 2:33:39Joe Rogan?

  "Captain Jack" is one of Billy Joel's greatest songs. It's a great fucking song. Guy living on Long Island. It's great. It's a great song. It's like you listen to it, you're like, "God damn, he nailed it." He fucking nailed it.

• 2:33:52Speaker 01

  He's one of the greats, man.

• 2:33:54Joe Rogan?

  Dude, um, I really appreciate you coming in and I really love what you're doing.

• 2:33:59Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:34:00Joe Rogan?

  I just wanted to, wanted to have you in here, shoot the shit with you, see what your process was and how you think about things. And I really enjoyed it.

• 2:34:07Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me, Joe.

• 2:34:08Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure. Tell everybody what's the best place to find you and find your stuff.

• 2:34:13Speaker 01

  Uh, I'm, you know, I'm online. So, go, you know, get online.

• 2:34:19Joe Rogan?

  Do you have a, what is your Instagram?

• 2:34:22Speaker 01

  Uh, Wells Music. Wells Music.

• 2:34:25Joe Rogan?

  There it is. W E L L E S.

• 2:34:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:34:29Joe Rogan?

  So it's wellesmusic.com. Tour dates are all there.

• 2:34:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:34:34Joe Rogan?

  Go out and see him. Support.

• 2:34:38Joe Rogan?

  Dude, continued success and best of luck to you. I really, I really enjoy what you're doing.

• 2:34:42Speaker 01

  Thanks for having me.

• 2:34:43Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure, brother. Alright, goodbye, everybody.

• 2:35:31Speaker 00

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