Ep. 676: Jesse Griffiths Earns a Michellin Star

Steven Rinella https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork talks with chef Jesse Griffiths https://www.instagram.com/sac.a.lait/?hl=en, Ryan Callaghan https://www.instagram.com/olcal406/, Janis Putelis https://www.instagram.com/janis_putelis/, Randall Williams https://www.instagram.com/randall__williams/, Phil Taylor https://www.instagram.com/philtaylor25/?hl=en, and Corinne Schneider https://www.instagram.com/corinnesschneider/?hl=en. Topics discussed: The Hog Book https://store.themeateater.com/products/ME-HOGBOOK.html?lang=en_US&srsltid=AfmBOopVutXwuI-0xeQowEBHI-gZSn37ChL200PSjmm1n8rXnFbjL7mX and The Turkey Book https://store.themeateater.com/products/me-turkey.html?lang=en_US; Jesse's restaurant, Dai Due https://www.daidue.com, just won a Michelin Green Star and is Steve's favorite restaurant; why it's illegal to remove a billfish from the water in the US https://www.instagram.com/janis_putelis/p/DGb4C2Rvnby/?hl=en; Randall's love of estate sales; FHF's sweet new EDC pack https://www.fhfgear.com/products/edc-pack.html?lang=en_US&srsltid=AfmBOooEQW5Poa_GkBuKbIODfW_bzF2Di5O6h70RmxzGJATFwwe_N9C9; Michelin stars and tires; cock fights; how everything served is from around here; cooking aoudad; a new use for an old cut; Jesse's recipe for belly meat remoulade https://www.themeateater.com/cook/recipes/texas-style-venison-belly-rouladen; arguing about star anise; a routine with turkey wings; approachable and creative; heart, liver, gizzard; and more. Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and Youtube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Steven Rinella?

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• 2:46Steven Rinella?

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• 3:17Steven Rinella?

  Joined today by world famous Texan Jesse Griffiths, author of

• 3:22Steven Rinella?

  the very creatively titled The Hog Book and The Turkey Book. Just comes right out and tells you what the book is. Yeah, pretty clear. You don't need to look at that book and wonder what those books are about. No. By design. Yeah, I've accused him of being a wild hog apologist.

• 3:41Steven Rinella?

  Jesse Griffiths knows how to make

• 3:44Steven Rinella?

  phenomenal stuff out of wild hogs of all varieties. And the hog book tells you all about how to do that. Top to bottom. Anyone that tells you, oh, you can't eat them and you can eat them when they're this age or eat them at that age or eat them when they're. 120 pounds. 120 pounds or pregnant or not pregnant or if you ever want to know like what is actually up about wild hogs.

• 4:10Steven Rinella?

  From a guy who has handled more, this is a bold statement, but I'm going to stick by it. We can vet it. I'll be honest. A guy that is handled, okay, a guy that has handled and served more wild hog meat than anybody on the planet.

• 4:25Speaker 02

  I mean, I don't know, it'd be hard to quantify, but an awful lot.

• 4:29Steven Rinella?

  How about a lot?

• 4:29Speaker 02

  A lot, a lot, hundreds, if not thousands. Butchered a lot, seen a lot of them dead.

• 4:36Steven Rinella?

  Served a lot of them.

• 4:37Speaker 02

  Served a lot of them.

• 4:38Steven Rinella?

  Eating a pile of them.

• 4:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 4:39Steven Rinella?

  No, um, the hog book is no, it's no guesswork. It's no rumor. It's just like what you know to be true from a career of working in them.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was like, uh, answers to questions and people would, you know, over the years be like, what, you know, can you eat them if they're 120 pounds and over? Can you eat a boar? Can you eat them a south? It's not pregnant. Can you eat a south that is pregnant? You know, what's your favorite recipe? Name it and, you know, just kind of a compilation of answers to questions that I got.

• 5:10Steven Rinella?

  And then followed that up with the turkey book.

• 5:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 5:13Steven Rinella?

  Which tells you everything you'd ever want to know about preparing turkeys, preparing every part of, every part of every turkey.

• 5:19Speaker 02

  Yep, definitely. Um, that one was more of a kind of dress for the job you want deal. Really wanted to spend a whole spring turkey hunting. So we documented it and then did a bunch of recipes.

• 5:31Steven Rinella?

  Good deal.

• 5:32Speaker 03

  Those are both available at the meat eater.com.

• 5:34Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 5:35Steven Rinella?

  And then, uh, what we're gonna, Jesse's been on the show a few times before. He recently got a, a Michelin star for Dai Dui.

• 5:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, but to be clear, a Michelin green star.

• 5:46Steven Rinella?

  Well, I know, but I'm saving that.

• 5:48Speaker 02

  Oh, sorry. I ruined it. Can you fill? Backtrack us a little bit. I just ruined it.

• 5:54Steven Rinella?

  I was toying with reading this Mercer Lawing's Dai Dui review.

• 6:03Steven Rinella?

  I'm just gonna read the first line. My quail plate was very good. Fantastic, actually.

• 6:14Speaker 04

  How many stars?

• 6:16Speaker 03

  I don't want to know more of the details. Come on.

• 6:19Steven Rinella?

  Come on. I don't want to do it. I don't want to butt.

• 6:21Speaker 02

  What's next?

• 6:22Speaker 03

  Mercer Lawing was what was, what episode number guest?

• 6:25Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to do it.

• 6:27Speaker 02

  I gotta know.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  You know, it's.

• 6:31Steven Rinella?

  The aw dead meatballs? Very good.

• 6:34Speaker 03

  Ooh.

• 6:34Steven Rinella?

  Mmm.

• 6:35Speaker 02

  Okay, building up a little more.

• 6:38Speaker 02

  This is gonna hurt. All right.

• 6:40Steven Rinella?

  The Neil guy? Steak?

• 6:43Speaker 02

  Steak?

• 6:44Steven Rinella?

  He would have preferred the chimichurri on the side.

• 6:46Speaker 02

  Oh, come on.

• 6:49Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 6:52Steven Rinella?

  He sounds like my kids.

• 6:54Speaker 03

  And that Mercer lying was on episode 407 California's war.

• 6:59Steven Rinella?

  Would have been a great dish if they had just put it on the side.

• 7:06Speaker 04

  Can we pause for a second? How does this make you feel right now?

• 7:09Speaker 02

  Um.

• 7:10Steven Rinella?

  Across the board, across the board, very bold flavors. Never had a meal quite like it.

• 7:17Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 7:18Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's what I'm talking about. There's a little more in there. I'll share with you later.

• 7:22Speaker 02

  Oh, we'll just kind of look a little, little ease it in there. Yeah.

• 7:25Steven Rinella?

  Dude, it's my favorite. It's like, honest to God, man, it died away is my favorite restaurant.

• 7:29Speaker 02

  Oh, that's super kind of you. Thank you.

• 7:31Steven Rinella?

  Another thing I like about it, we've talked about this when you were on the show before, um,

• 7:37Steven Rinella?

  like something that most restaurants would be like, it'd be like in glowing neon signs and shit outside. But like at the bottom of Jesse's, I don't know if you changed it, at the bottom of Jesse's menu, it says, everything is from around here.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  From the author of the turkey book, right?

• 7:54Steven Rinella?

  Just in little letters at the bottom of the menu, everything is from around here, meaning it's like all local stuff. It's like all Texas.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  We call that an economy of dialogue.

• 8:05Steven Rinella?

  Everything is from around here. It's not sandwiched into the description of each dish.

• 8:09Speaker 02

  No, we don't put farms in there. It's, it's just assume that everything is from around here.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  Do you still have that slogan? Cause I'm wearing the original shirt. It says, eat a hog, save the world.

• 8:20Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's, that's, that's more hashtag, um, you know, feral hog apologies, apologists, propaganda.

• 8:28Steven Rinella?

  So we're, we're gonna talk Jesse a bunch about food, cooking food.

• 8:31Speaker 04

  Well, I want to know real quick, how many Michelin star restaurants or Michelin green star restaurants, uh, serve things with like a ramekin of something on the side?

• 8:40Speaker 02

  None of them.

• 8:44Steven Rinella?

  You just, you need to put that chimichurri in a squirt bottle and just set it in the ketchup rag.

• 8:48Speaker 05

  Maybe we could get it in a little packet that you could open.

• 8:51Steven Rinella?

  Plastic bag.

• 8:52Speaker 05

  What is a green star?

• 8:54Steven Rinella?

  We're, that's what the whole show is about, man.

• 8:57Speaker 05

  We're gonna build up to that. I didn't read the, I didn't read the notes.

• 9:00Steven Rinella?

  No, it doesn't say that in the notes. It just lives in my head.

• 9:02Speaker 06

  It does.

• 9:03Steven Rinella?

  Now, now it's, now we're gonna turn the heat to Yanni. After all that praise, now we're gonna criticize Yanni up and down.

• 9:09Speaker 05

  You're on a little tear this morning.

• 9:10Steven Rinella?

  Well, I guess I said that.

• 9:11Speaker 05

  Surprises. I should have read the notes.

• 9:14Steven Rinella?

  Well, Yanni killed a, killed a sailfish just so he could get cool pictures of it.

• 9:19Speaker 05

  Illegal to remove sailfish from the water in the US.

• 9:21Steven Rinella?

  So I'll tell the story. Yanni went to like a little party.

• 9:25Speaker 05

  A party?

• 9:26Steven Rinella?

  In Guatemala.

• 9:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, wasn't it like a 50th birthday party?

• 9:31Speaker 05

  Oh, well, we went on a fishing trip to celebrate my, celebrate my brother-in-law's 50th birthday. We didn't do much partying.

• 9:38Steven Rinella?

  Okay, Yanni went on a birthday fishing trip. While that is birthday fishing trip, he committed a terrible sin. Which I didn't know, I didn't know about.

• 9:47Speaker 05

  I'd like to point out too that I did it. That I did it. The, the captain and the mates were like, we don't really do this. But I'm like, I really need the grip and grin, you know, for the gram.

• 9:57Steven Rinella?

  Caught a sailfish for no reason. Then.

• 10:00Speaker 05

  For no.

• 10:01Steven Rinella?

  Just to screw with it, or as Mitch Hedberg said, to make it late for something. And lifts it out of the water and takes a picture. Then Brendan Rund, I can't remember, was it Rundy or Rund? He was on the show.

• 10:15Speaker 05

  I think it's Rundy.

• 10:15Steven Rinella?

  Rundy, from the Nature Conservancy, who was on episode 538.

• 10:22Steven Rinella?

  Discussing a subject that now seems so incredibly dated. Which was, does wildlife win or lose with renewable energy? And he wrote in and saw Yanni's Instagram post. And he, like many people do when they have a problem with something, reached out to Corinne.

• 10:41Steven Rinella?

  Um, in the US, I didn't know this, it is now illegal to remove billfish from the water, unless you're keeping them.

• 10:52Steven Rinella?

  They did a satellite tagging study on white marlin.

• 10:58Steven Rinella?

  If you, oh, if you leave a white marlin in the water, when you catch it, the mortality rate, now don't do that crap where you say a number that's gonna make it, Phil knows what I'm talking about. Well, you guys all, you can see it. I can't do like, take a guess, oh Jesse, take a guess.

• 11:18Steven Rinella?

  And try to like, play, work with me here, don't, don't make it look bad. If you catch a white marlin and leave it in the water, catch and release fishing, you leave it in the water and release it, what do you think the odds are he'll die?

• 11:31Steven Rinella?

  One in 10.

• 11:34Steven Rinella?

  Good, good job. No, it's only 1.7, it's only, it's only 1.7%. Wow.

• 11:43Speaker 03

  10%.

• 11:44Steven Rinella?

  Right, so you were off by a, uh, what do you call that, exponential, no? Factor of 10? Off by a decimal point?

• 11:54Steven Rinella?

  Is that right? I'm not sure.

• 11:56Speaker 03

  About, yeah, 1.7%.

• 11:57Steven Rinella?

  I'm not a math guy. He thought 10 and 100. You're making this too complicated. He thought 10 and 100 die. And thought that was a good. And thought that was good, but it's only 1 and 1/2 and 100 die if you leave them in the water. If you act like Yanni,

• 12:13Steven Rinella?

  guess what the odds he'll die is? Am I taking another guess? Uh, try to, you know, Yeah. make it be that it'll work in my favor. 4 out of 10.

• 12:26Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 12:31Steven Rinella?

  33%.

• 12:33Steven Rinella?

  So close.

• 12:34Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 12:35Speaker 03

  But even higher.

• 12:37Steven Rinella?

  So Yanni now has this laying bed at night wondering that. That, uh.

• 12:44Steven Rinella?

  But Yanni, you can.

• 12:45Speaker 05

  One out of three.

• 12:45Steven Rinella?

  You can flip it around and say, chances are he swam away and he's just fine. You know, you know what's, well, here's what the odds are. It's like in, in paper, scissors, rock. There's a one in three, right?

• 12:55Speaker 03

  Paper, scissors, rock.

• 12:56Steven Rinella?

  So here's Yanni.

• 12:59Speaker 03

  I guess Steve, rock, paper, scissors.

• 13:01Steven Rinella?

  Rock, paper, scissors. So I'm saying if you're throwing.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  Michigan.

• 13:05Steven Rinella?

  Right? Every time if you're throwing it, you got a three choice.

• 13:08Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 13:08Steven Rinella?

  Every time you throw, let's say a scissor, that means Yanni killed a sailfish. So rock, nope. Paper, nope. Scissor, yep. Scissor, yep.

• 13:19Steven Rinella?

  Rock, nope.

• 13:21Speaker 05

  Unless you like scissors a lot and you throw it more often.

• 13:23Steven Rinella?

  Then you kill more sailfish.

• 13:25Speaker 05

  Kill more sailfish.

• 13:25Steven Rinella?

  Do you feel bad about this, Yanis?

• 13:27Speaker 05

  It was an honest mistake. You know, had I known this prior to, then, uh, like I said, the, the mates and the captain, they don't do this. They do, they have like a GoPro on a stick. So you, you just get them next to the boat and it's, the GoPro shoots from way out in the water back towards the boat.

• 13:45Steven Rinella?

  Wasn't good enough for you.

• 13:46Speaker 05

  So out of the other forty some fish that we caught, that's the way we took pictures of the few that we took pictures of. Most of the time, they don't even touch the fish. They just, they, uh, they have a pole with a little, uh,

• 13:59Speaker 05

  it's like, I don't know what, it's like a, uh, paper, paper cutter.

• 14:02Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 14:02Speaker 05

  Um, basically on the end, huh?

• 14:05Steven Rinella?

  Discorder? Not a curlicue.

• 14:08Speaker 05

  No, no, no, no. It's literally a paper cutter and it's just taped to the end of this pole. And they go right, they go down the leader and just cut the line right above the hook and just don't even touch the hook and just let the hook rust out. They catch so many of those sailfish down there. We caught forty in three days. It's nothing for them to catch forty in a day. And um they'll catch them with other hooks in the corner of their mouth, just like you would uh like a see a trout, you know, you can see the

• 14:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 14:36Speaker 05

  You know, it's been hooked and caught before.

• 14:39Steven Rinella?

  So they do it by they're trolling. Explain the process of catching the sailfish.

• 14:44Speaker 05

  Yeah, um it's pretty cool. It's uh it's more in depth, it's more in depth and more uh sort of um involved for the anglers than a lot of the trolling type fishing of done in the past where a lot of times you're just in a boat. The mates set up the rods, uh the baits are in there, you're trolling, the captain's running the boat. The fish bites uh a bait, it's pretty much on a mate grabs the rod, make sure it's it's hooked. And then he hands it over to the angler and you basically reel, you know, that's like your job. Uh they don't take the boat out of gear to make it extra hard for you because you gotta fight like the current and the fish fighting.

• 15:25Speaker 05

  Uh but here with these sailfish, out of, I don't know, the 10 lines that are in the water, there's actually only four hooks in there. Everything else is just a teaser, meaning it's just a decoy, right? And so if you imagine these fish are hanging at the thermal climb, which is roughly 80 feet, that's what it was when we were there. That's where they're hanging and they're looking up to where to find their uh food as they're cruising around. The boat comes over the top. There's all the prop wash and whatever, and then in that prop wash, behind the prop wash, there's all these, there's like a whole, you know, uh school of bait fish swimming is what it looks like. And there's all the smoke that's coming off of them. They call it smoke. It's the uh the smaller wash coming off of these teasers, right?

• 16:10Speaker 05

  So they look up and they go, oh my God, that's what I've been looking for, you know, and they swim up the 80 feet. And so when you're in the boat, you're sitting there and you're just watching all the teasers and then all of a sudden in one, behind one teaser, some of the teasers are like a group of baits. You see the bill all of a sudden, just above the water, swatting back and forth, right? Because that's how they kill a um flying fish or uh I don't know if it's sardines, whatever else they eat, but they whack them, stuns them, they turn and eat them, right? So at that point. The captain usually, because he's up top in the bridge, so he can, he has a better angle to see it all.

• 16:48Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 05

  So he's, they give you a really good job of explaining how it's all gonna go down and like what, uh, most importantly, what right and what left is, because just as like when you're guiding fly fishermen and you tell them to get cast to the right, they cast to the left and then you say, no, Jesse, the other right. Um, so the same thing happens here, because he goes, right, long teaser. And like, one of the anglers goes and grabs a rod on the left side of the boat and he's like, no, the other right.

• 17:17Steven Rinella?

  It's like stage left and stage right where everybody gets confused. Yeah, we had real problems with that.

• 17:21Speaker 05

  So as soon as like, as an angler, your job is to grab one of the baited rods, hopefully the rod where you know the bait is the closest to said teaser. So if it's the right long, you grab the rod that's got the bait in the right long position. You take it out of the downrigger clip. As soon as you have it in your hands, you take, you take it out of, you put it to free spool, put your thumb on the, on the spool and you're holding it. And at that point, the, the mates are reeling all the teasers in, right? So the sailfish is in there amongst all these teasers. He's trying to swat and kill something to eat. And all of a sudden, they all disappear. And then the captain's like, hey, you're, uh, 10 feet behind him, reel up.

• 18:03Speaker 05

  So you flip it in gear, reel up like 10 feet and he goes, stop. Go back to free spool and you're holding it. He's like, wait, wait, he's right behind it. And so the sailfish looks up and goes, oh.

• 18:13Steven Rinella?

  I got one.

• 18:14Speaker 05

  There's the one. Whammo. And he eats it and you feel like a slight tug on that rod. Is at that point, you take your thumb on that, lighten up on your drag and let him eat it and basically count to four. This is the fun part. I already told you this.

• 18:29Steven Rinella?

  Count to cuatro.

• 18:30Speaker 05

  Count to cuatro. Yeah, you can do it in Spanish if you want. And then at that point, you flip the, uh, you flip your drag, engage your drag, he's on, you fight the fish.

• 18:42Speaker 05

  If you're gonna do it on the fly, which is very popular down here, there's basically one extra step. There you have no baits in the water at all. It's all just teasers. There's no hooks, right? So there's like a dozen teasers just going behind the boat. Yeah. Once the fish comes in behind it, you grab your fly rod. You have about 10 or 15 feet of line in the water. It's like dragging behind the boat. So your rod is- It's already dragging there. Well, you know, you dump it in. You get it ready. So it's you're loading your rod by that drag behind the boat. Again, all the mates reel up all the teasers. They bring them in. The fish is still there like, whoa, what's up?

• 19:22Speaker 05

  But they bring him in close because he's following those teasers in. So if you jumped off the stern, you could land on top of the sailfish. I mean, that's how close he is. So you don't cast at him? No, no, you do. So you're holding it on one side. You've loaded your rod. And depending on if that sailfish comes in on the right or the left, you're going to make one back cast and then shoot your line. They actually want you to cast behind him. So when the fish is like, oh, where'd everything go? And then all of a sudden you start stripping and that bait, you know, comes right by me goes, ah, there he is. And is the captain still on the throttle? No. So to make it like legally caught by a fly rod, he can't be in gear. Cause you can't be trolling.

• 20:06Speaker 05

  Yeah, you, cause otherwise exactly. You're just trolling that fly. So basically before you cast, he comes out of gear. You make one cast. If it's, what was hard for me to remember was that if it was the left side of the boat, you had to cast and then run over to the left corner because you didn't want to strip your fly into the prop wash because the fish loses sight of it. Cause it's, you know, it's so white in there. Got it. And so you want to move over to the left side to keep your fly out in the clear water. But I don't know. I tugged it once or twice. He ate it. And then you freeze just like you would when he eats the bait, right? And basically he takes all the slack out of your hands. It comes tight.

• 20:46Speaker 05

  And then if you still have it, you know, mentally in you to remember, oh, he turned left, then you would sweep the rod to the right or vice versa, you know, to make sure you get that hook set. Cause even the flies circle hooks, right? So they really want to make sure you can't set the hook. My brother-in-law missed quite a few fish because- Couldn't overcome the instinct to- To set the hook. Yep. Yeah. Everybody loves setting the hook, you know?

• 21:14Speaker 05

  Does it put up a good tussle on a fly rod? Yeah, you know, honestly, the tackle we were using even for the bait rods was pretty light. So both of them were pretty good, but what you learn pretty quickly is that as soon as he's on or she, they're going on a mad dash run, amazing jumpers. And actually I found out that the less pressure you apply with a tackle, the more they stay towards the surface and the more jumping you get. If you hook them on super heavy duty stuff and just bear down on them, which you could, these fish don't really go over 100 pounds much. Um, then they'll sort of sound on you and not really jump. So they actually keep the tackle a little bit lighter to keep them near the surface. So you get the exciting jumps. And I mean, we had multiple fish that jumped

• 21:59Speaker 05

  excess of 20 times, probably.

• 22:02Steven Rinella?

  What is the, what is the reputation of a sailfish for food, for food quality? Again, not good.

• 22:08Speaker 05

  No, no, I think it is good. I think it's just, I think it's just fine to eat. Yeah, but they're really trying to protect the resource there. What happens there a lot, even though it's completely illegal, even in these Guatemalan waters is we're fishing probably 30 miles off, but these pods of fish, and they don't really know exactly the numbers, but it's got, it must be thousands. Cause I mean, there's a decent sized fleet there that might be catching, you know, 30, 40 fish a day per boat. Um, but these pods of sailfish will move in closer to shore. And once they get into that like three, four mile mark, uh, the gill netters come out and hammer the shit out of them.

• 22:48Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 22:48Speaker 05

  And so the fleet will be catching them at three miles for multiple days, but the word gets out. And then all of a sudden, one night of gill netting and the fleet goes out and they're like, hey, where's all the fish? Well, they went home.

• 23:00Steven Rinella?

  No kidding.

• 23:01Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Uh, Istio forus, which is a great,

• 23:07Speaker 04

  great family name, Istio foridae for the, the sailfish. But, um, yeah, super fast growing species. Can hit five feet in, in its first year.

• 23:19Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 23:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. So, but like Yana said, you know, not, um, super heavy. So I'm at, they are, uh, considered overfished by and large.

• 23:32Speaker 04

  But it sounds like they're real fast growing. So like the ability to rebound the population would be.

• 23:39Steven Rinella?

  Damn.

• 23:39Speaker 04

  Real good.

• 23:41Steven Rinella?

  Did you guys catch any tuna, Yanni?

• 23:42Speaker 05

  Nope. That was definitely sort of a, it would have been a plus, like it was a possibility tuna and Dorado, but we saw neither of those, as well as marlin. We did raise one marlin, meaning same thing. He came up off the, you know, thermocline and came into the teasers. But when I got, I was up in the bridge, happened to be up there and I got to see him. It literally looked like he came up there and then was like swimming alongside the teasers like, hey, guys.

• 24:12Speaker 05

  He wasn't in there like, I'm gonna mess you up. He was in there for maybe 30 seconds and then just disappeared.

• 24:19Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's cool.

• 24:20Speaker 05

  So, yeah, it was all sailfish. But, yeah. One of the highlights, you know, the fishing was great, but man, you just forget how good local food is. Like, I haven't been to that many tropical places to eat pineapples where they, you know, grow on trees. And it's just like, it's nothing like a pineapple from the, eating the United States. Same thing with the mangoes, the avocados, you know, they, what else? Papayas that we ate. And you know what they do a lot down there? Well, we were talking about this, is they season their fruit a lot.

• 24:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 24:55Speaker 05

  A lot of salt on the fruit and then that thing called, Tahin? Yeah, Tahin.

• 25:01Steven Rinella?

  My wife's been making that.

• 25:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, you were saying. But, yeah, so great food, just very fresh. Everything down there is very kind of light and fresh. Didn't eat a lot of heavy stuff. So, yeah, super fun trip. The Blue Bayou Sail Fishing Lodge, if you're interested.

• 25:19Steven Rinella?

  Oh, they, they're like dedicated sail fishing.

• 25:22Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, Jennifer's, my wife's cousin, Rob Orr, is one of the captains at the Blue Bayou Sail Fishing Lodge. So you can go fish with Rob if you want.

• 25:32Speaker 04

  He's gonna show your picture off and he's like, I pretty much guarantee you can't catch this one again, but.

• 25:40Steven Rinella?

  There's a one in three. He's unavailable. I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house. They all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier

• 26:23Steven Rinella?

  time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and years of use out of a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. You guys have heard me talk all about Montana Knife Company for a few years now on the podcast. Hands down, these are my absolute favorite hunting knives. Every blade they make is a high-performance durable tool that you can rely on whether you're butchering, hunting, working on the farm, out in the field, doing chores, whatever. And I've got a massive update for you. People have been asking for this forever. MKC finally did it. I've been asking it forever. The wait is over. They're launching their very first folding knife. It's called

• 27:06Steven Rinella?

  the Montana. It's going to be dropping very soon. I'm telling you right now, these things are going to sell out fast. If you aren't ready the moment they go live, you're probably going to miss out. So here's what you need to do. Get over to MKC.com right now. Make sure you sign up for their email and text message notifications so you get the alert the exact second the knife drops. Montana Knife Company, working knives for working people. Head to MKC.com today. That's MKC.com. I can't wait to check out one of these folders.

• 27:38Steven Rinella?

  Every successful hunt eventually leads to the workbench or the kitchen counter. The deer is broken down, the meat is trimmed, and it's time to grind burger, make sausage, prepare jerky, and package everything for the freezer. It's an important part of the field to table process. LEM Products makes the equipment designed to help you get the job done. From big bite grinders, which are phenomenal, and sausage stuffers, to slicers, dehydrators, vacuum sealers, and more, LEM offers professional-grade equipment built for home meat processing. For more than 30 years, LEM has been helping hunters, anglers, and field-to-table enthusiasts process and preserve their harvest with confidence.

• 28:21Steven Rinella?

  Visit lemproducts.com and use promo code STEVE15 to get 15% off plus free shipping. That's lemproducts.com promo code STEVE15. LEM, built for the work, there for the journey.

• 28:42Steven Rinella?

  I've never even laid eyes on a sailfish alive.

• 28:46Speaker 05

  I only laid eyes on one other one that we caught out of Oker Coke, North Carolina, once with Rob Orr, too. But yeah, I haven't seen many of them.

• 28:57Steven Rinella?

  Well, you know who we got, we got, we're working on coming on is some University of Wyoming Clovis experts.

• 29:07Steven Rinella?

  Here's what titillated me about it, what got me excited is we were down at University of Wyoming, meeting with the archaeologists down there, looking at some collections. And these guys are like very esteemed archaeologists, and they are still firm believers.

• 29:26Steven Rinella?

  Clovis first, Clovis were the first Americans.

• 29:30Steven Rinella?

  And they are big believers in the blitzkrieg hypothesis.

• 29:34Speaker 06

  Overkill.

• 29:35Steven Rinella?

  They're big believers in the overkill hypothesis with mammoths. Meaning, we always give, we always have Meltzer on.

• 29:41Speaker 03

  Do we need to stage a debate?

• 29:44Steven Rinella?

  Well, Meltzer likes him.

• 29:47Speaker 06

  It's collegial.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Well, that's what I mean.

• 29:49Speaker 04

  But you know, Steve will do his absolute best to create some sort of rivalry there.

• 29:54Steven Rinella?

  He set it up. He set it up. I know you guys have, they're like, they're respectful, they're respectful colleagues who, I gather, respectful colleagues, who just disagree on a couple of things.

• 30:07Speaker 03

  Love it.

• 30:07Speaker 04

  World could use more of that.

• 30:09Steven Rinella?

  And so, he's gonna, he's coming on, and they're gonna, we're working on getting him on, and they're gonna come on and lay out the case. And it's good. I don't wanna like, I don't wanna give my, I don't wanna do my own version that's not that good. They're gonna lay out the case that like,

• 30:25Steven Rinella?

  Clovis first.

• 30:26Speaker 06

  Yeah, we got to.

• 30:28Steven Rinella?

  Mammoth hunters.

• 30:29Speaker 06

  We got to see a mammoth skull that's being pieced back together. We got to see some giant mammoth tusks that you keep, like lowering down to look further back on the shelf, because they just keep going. Like just giant tusks. And Steve got to live out one of his wildest fantasies and see someone doing archaeological drawings in person. Like a guy looking at a Clovis point.

• 30:54Steven Rinella?

  Which is my favorite art.

• 30:55Speaker 06

  Sketching it in fine, fine detail.

• 30:57Steven Rinella?

  He's gonna hook, I'm gonna get, I'm gonna get an original from him, and I'm gonna frame it, put it in the studio. Uh, that's cool. What else happened on there? I'll walk into this office, and there's this giant bone laying there. I said, damn, what's that off? He said, that's a rock. And I said, I thought it was a dinosaur bone. He said, so is the guy that brought it here.

• 31:17Steven Rinella?

  He said, you can have it if you want.

• 31:18Speaker 03

  So it's totally worthless?

• 31:19Steven Rinella?

  The guy brought it, and then you take it, then you take it home with him. Dude, it looks, it looks like, it looks like.

• 31:26Speaker 06

  It looks like the head of a big.

• 31:27Steven Rinella?

  It looks like a chunk of a femur in the, the end of the femur.

• 31:30Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 31:31Steven Rinella?

  Like, hundred percent. Hundred percent.

• 31:33Speaker 03

  You guys should have brought that back.

• 31:34Steven Rinella?

  I know, I don't know why I was, it was very heavy.

• 31:36Speaker 06

  Our bags are already getting heavier, because we've got some beautiful books from them, too.

• 31:41Speaker 03

  Speaking of bags.

• 31:43Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah. Well, let me do one more thing, then I'm gonna talk about that bag.

• 31:45Speaker 06

  It would not have fit in that bag. It was a big rock.

• 31:48Steven Rinella?

  Um, I'm gonna talk about that bag, but I wanna do one more thing. Uh, because Randall, I've been spending a lot of time with Randall driving around, and Randall's been telling me about just the world I wasn't aware of that he's involved in.

• 31:59Speaker 06

  What's that?

• 32:00Steven Rinella?

  Estate sales.

• 32:01Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 32:02Steven Rinella?

  Randall waits for old men to die.

• 32:07Speaker 06

  Well, they're dying anyway.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  I didn't really know this either.

• 32:09Steven Rinella?

  No, Randall waits. I think that I was telling Randall, if he wants to get serious about this, that he would start finding garages that had a lot of interesting stuff and then check on the well being of the.

• 32:21Speaker 06

  Tell us some depressing stories.

• 32:23Steven Rinella?

  Be like, how is Bob feeling? You know?

• 32:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 32:26Steven Rinella?

  Couldn't help but notice the garage.

• 32:28Speaker 06

  Well, when you drive, when you drive past like a ranch and you see it's just there's shit everywhere and you're like, man, how does a guy get all that stuff? It's by buying that stuff when that guy.

• 32:38Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 32:39Speaker 06

  Leaves this earth.

• 32:40Steven Rinella?

  So Randall goes on estate sales and when he was looking, I was watching him, he was showing me an estate sale and he was looking at things that would, because I have like bad organizational problems. Like I like things real organized. And you can buy like, like buckets, buckets of assorted sockets.

• 32:57Speaker 03

  Oh, that was like when you like went and bought like a bucket of assorted files.

• 33:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 33:01Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 33:02Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  And I have one of those.

• 33:03Steven Rinella?

  My Randall is like an active estate, he like him and his friends look at estate sales.

• 33:09Speaker 03

  Didn't know this.

• 33:10Speaker 06

  Great tools, all kinds of tools. I mean, I'm a Craigslist guy too. I'm an eBay guy to some extent.

• 33:17Speaker 03

  We should.

• 33:18Speaker 06

  But you remember I had that, there was this amazing one in Livingston recently and the guy had just an unbelievable collection of taxidermy.

• 33:26Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 33:26Speaker 06

  Like multiple full body bear mounts and buffalo mount, like shoulder mounts. I think I probably sent you a dozen things from that. That all got. I.

• 33:35Steven Rinella?

  The real collectors caught wind of that.

• 33:37Speaker 06

  Yeah, the real collectors caught wind of that. But yeah, this guy in Livingston had an unbelievable taxidermy collection.

• 33:42Speaker 05

  Those things actually brought some money because I thought after we had our podcast with Hayes, he explained that those things really didn't have much value.

• 33:50Speaker 06

  Oh, the, I got priced out of the, I mean.

• 33:52Speaker 05

  Well, you gotta know your market.

• 33:55Speaker 06

  I had, I think I had, Sydney was all in on a couple of them up to like five, $600.

• 34:02Speaker 05

  What mounts did you want to have of someone else's?

• 34:05Speaker 06

  I don't know. There was just, they're like full body goat. There were multiple full body goats. There were like crazy rams.

• 34:12Steven Rinella?

  At the right price. I, I don't know.

• 34:14Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 34:14Steven Rinella?

  Find somewhere to put it.

• 34:15Speaker 06

  They're amazing antelope, like dozens and dozens of antelope in this collection. Yeah.

• 34:20Speaker 04

  And how much were you willing to spend?

• 34:22Speaker 06

  Like a couple hundred bucks. Not, not enough, but the.

• 34:25Steven Rinella?

  Well, the, what those estate sale he was showing me was rock bottom prices.

• 34:30Speaker 06

  Yeah, but there's still like nine days left on it.

• 34:33Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah. And way he worked is they got a buddy. He, so he's got a buddy in a certain town and a state sale comes up in that town. The buddy's like, hey, let, let me know and I'll go pick up what you need. And so then you're kind of preying on these families, you know?

• 34:47Speaker 06

  No.

• 34:48Steven Rinella?

  You're preying on these families in a time, in a time of grief and need.

• 34:52Speaker 06

  No, I don't, I don't think you're preying on them at all. They, they want to sell it.

• 34:56Speaker 04

  Making life easy, like.

• 34:57Speaker 06

  Yeah. I mean, honestly, like.

• 34:59Speaker 04

  With my uncle rancher, uh, was, was passing away, um, hi- his truck doors. Where, you know, cause you're always like driving around fixing stuff and then you're, you're ending up with things that you're not going to leave out in the field. So you'd, he would throw them in his truck, uh, all the big organizational slots in the, in the truck doors.

• 35:22Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Which dirt uses for his shampoo and toothpaste and stuff like that.

• 35:25Speaker 04

  Exactly. Yeah. Well, so.

• 35:27Steven Rinella?

  This is medicine.

• 35:27Speaker 06

  I have, I have corn dog sticks in there. Those little.

• 35:31Speaker 04

  Jeff's were full to the top with like nuts and bolts and, I mean, more packed than, than like a hardware store shelf, right? Full to the top with nuts and bolts and sockets and stuff like that. And what we ended up doing, cause his shop was kind of like that too. So instead of doing like the estate sale route of like, who wants to bid on this coffee can, this Folgers coffee can from 1970, full of assorted drivers and stuff. We just called Pacific Steel, the recycler, right?

• 36:09Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 36:09Speaker 04

  And had a dumpster delivered and then filled it full of all that stuff as recycling instead of taking the time to go through and sort it all.

• 36:18Speaker 06

  Got it.

• 36:19Speaker 04

  That's the way to do it.

• 36:20Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 36:20Speaker 04

  Yeah. Or.

• 36:21Steven Rinella?

  Hopefully Doug Dern's listening.

• 36:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. Well, hopefully Randall wasn't, wasn't calling him ahead of time and being like, yeah, you're getting old. Uh, I bet all your friends are dead, huh? That's gotta be depressing.

• 36:32Speaker 06

  Uh.

• 36:33Speaker 04

  Anyway.

• 36:33Speaker 06

  I also think like Craigslist, when you see somebody who's like, they're like a tradesman and they're, they're getting out of the business, you know, you buy like if storage units full of ladders and stuff like that.

• 36:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Tell the story. You told me the, the, the told these depressing story you told me about an estate sale.

• 36:51Steven Rinella?

  The death?

• 36:51Speaker 06

  I think we could tell this one.

• 36:53Speaker 04

  Um, you had to wrench something out of some grieving widow's pants?

• 36:57Speaker 06

  No, this is actually.

• 36:58Speaker 04

  Be like, I bought it.

• 36:59Speaker 06

  It could have happened. It could have happened anywhere, but um, yeah, my buddy, uh,

• 37:06Speaker 06

  his, I believe his grandfather, when he passed, they had an estate sale at the house and um, they're upstairs and they, they hear a gunshot in the basement and a guy had gone to use the bathroom and had a, had a handgun in his belt, went off and uh, killed him in like in the middle of the estate sale. So it's sort of a dark story.

• 37:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 37:35Steven Rinella?

  It's not even related to estate sales.

• 37:36Speaker 06

  Yeah, I know. It kind of happened. It could have happened anywhere.

• 37:38Speaker 04

  He wasn't trying to steal the.

• 37:40Speaker 06

  No, no, no, he brought it with him.

• 37:43Speaker 04

  Is there some like?

• 37:44Speaker 06

  But it made, it made this whole experience like especially traumatic.

• 37:47Speaker 04

  Oh, the estate sale law that's like, well, if you die at an estate sale during the estate sale, you become part of the estate.

• 37:54Steven Rinella?

  Of the estate sale. I don't know why I wanted him to tell that. Terrible. I know. It's just kind of really kind of ruined the show. But as he was telling me, I thought it was gonna be, I had him tell it because I made the same mistake I made when he started telling it. I thought it was gonna be someone fiddling with a gun for sale at an estate sale. And then he gets done with the story and I realized there's nothing to do with estate sales and here he is telling it the damn podcast.

• 38:23Speaker 06

  Yeah. Who asked him to do that? My own volition. I mean, I will say like estate sales, if you want to find a bunch of old like reloading presses and stuff like that, like, I miss the golden ages of uh, just stocking up on, on brass and all these components and you know, reloading, hand loading's gotten a lot more expensive. So there's a lot of guys with just closets full of the stuff.

• 38:46Speaker 04

  Yeah. It's basically planning on your own estate sale down the line.

• 38:50Speaker 06

  That's one way to look at it. Yeah.

• 38:53Steven Rinella?

  Got to stock up.

• 38:53Speaker 05

  Yeah, all you kids that are fifteen to twenty-five years old right now, make a note that in uh twenty seventy-two-ish, you're gonna wanna check, call up uh Randall's wife.

• 39:06Steven Rinella?

  Oh.

• 39:07Speaker 05

  To see how Randall's.

• 39:08Steven Rinella?

  Twenty seventy-two that, I'm getting there, young.

• 39:11Speaker 05

  Not gonna get that far. I didn't, I didn't wanna say you're gonna die young.

• 39:15Steven Rinella?

  Uh, that would make me uh twenty seventy-two, that'd make me like eighty something, right?

• 39:24Steven Rinella?

  Someone asked me why I'm holding my hand.

• 39:26Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 39:26Steven Rinella?

  Say, good lord, what is that?

• 39:28Speaker 05

  What is that, Steve?

• 39:30Steven Rinella?

  Uh, the FHF um EDC packs are out. All-American made backpack.

• 39:37Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:37Steven Rinella?

  Made out of uh, they call it challenge sailcloth, waterproof.

• 39:44Steven Rinella?

  I've been, Paul's been making these and I've been getting to wear all the different ones he's come out with. He's got all the kinds of inserts for them. They're sweet.

• 39:52Speaker 05

  What uh, what's your big finding on, on the finished product here?

• 39:56Steven Rinella?

  Love it.

• 39:57Speaker 05

  What, what for?

• 39:58Speaker 03

  What's in the pack?

• 40:00Steven Rinella?

  No, this, this is my like, this is my travel bag. This is, this is literally my EDC bags. I keep my laptop and everything in here. I got it all figured out. Cords, I keep my cords here.

• 40:08Speaker 05

  Oh, that's a good spot.

• 40:10Steven Rinella?

  Keep my spectacles and my shades in this side pouch.

• 40:16Steven Rinella?

  You really need to know all this?

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:18Steven Rinella?

  Up here I keep.

• 40:18Speaker 03

  It's durable.

• 40:19Steven Rinella?

  Up here I keep pens and whatnot. That's where I keep that stuff.

• 40:22Speaker 03

  Stick a holster in there.

• 40:23Steven Rinella?

  And he's got, he's got an insert so you can put like, you can put your pistols and whatnot in there. I keep my laptop in here. Well, it's actually right here right now. And I got one of these uh document bags.

• 40:34Speaker 05

  Hmm, when it's super full of stuff, is it comfortable to like hustle through the airport with?

• 40:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, dude, I love it.

• 40:40Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 40:41Steven Rinella?

  I will say we've been. And it's like the kinda thing that you can kick. Like I just cram it under my seat in front of me on the airplane. You don't have to worry about busting a seam. No, it's ergonomic.

• 40:52Steven Rinella?

  It's a sweet pack.

• 40:53Speaker 03

  You can attach stuff to the outside.

• 40:56Steven Rinella?

  Ergonomic.

• 40:57Speaker 03

  What's that system called?

• 40:58Steven Rinella?

  Therefore economic.

• 41:00Speaker 06

  It's got a molly panel on the back so you can add another little pouch.

• 41:03Steven Rinella?

  I put pouches on there now and then, but in the end I went for just the total streamlined thing. Cause you can just kind of move around like a greased hog.

• 41:09Speaker 06

  High speed.

• 41:10Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. It's just like you feel like a greased hog wearing this thing.

• 41:14Speaker 06

  We've been traveling a lot and you haven't, you haven't had to look for things. You haven't been losing things in our travels.

• 41:20Steven Rinella?

  No, cause I got my system totally dialed in. And um, and like I said, man, it's hard to find a completely, uh, like I said, US made.

• 41:30Steven Rinella?

  I love it.

• 41:30Speaker 03

  The, the challenge sail material is that, that's like actual.

• 41:35Steven Rinella?

  You can't mess it up.

• 41:35Speaker 03

  Sail like.

• 41:37Steven Rinella?

  No, it's just a thing they call. It's a thing they call it, but you can't mess it up.

• 41:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 41:40Steven Rinella?

  You can't mess it up. At least I haven't been able to.

• 41:44Speaker 05

  I mean, you probably could sail with it. Yes.

• 41:47Speaker 03

  Right. Mm-hmm.

• 41:48Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 41:48Steven Rinella?

  Sail through the airport.

• 41:49Speaker 05

  In a real.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  And that's available at, uh, the FHF.

• 41:55Steven Rinella?

  No, they're sweet backpacks. Yeah. And I'm kind of like a little finicky about backpacks.

• 42:00Speaker 05

  What?

• 42:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. It's one of the areas where I get a little finicky about stuff.

• 42:04Speaker 06

  One of the areas?

• 42:08Steven Rinella?

  There's a handful of areas that I'm very finicky. Duffel bags, backpacks, that I'm like, uh, I'm like, uh, I have big opinions about those things.

• 42:16Speaker 06

  Mm-hmm.

• 42:17Speaker 05

  You know, it's very rarely where I'm like, you know, Steve would have no opinion on this.

• 42:22Steven Rinella?

  There's certain, I was telling Randall though, there's certain things where I had to walk away. Like I, I have, I vowed to, I will not, I no longer will argue with anybody about anything to do with calibers.

• 42:34Speaker 05

  Hmm.

• 42:34Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 42:34Steven Rinella?

  Don't do it.

• 42:35Speaker 05

  Or gear.

• 42:36Steven Rinella?

  I quit. For a while I quit arguing about gear. I just wanted to.

• 42:41Speaker 06

  You're dipping your toe back in?

• 42:44Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 42:44Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 42:45Speaker 05

  He found, he found a new group of crew members that are more, uh, you know, their mindset is more akin to his mindset about gear. And so the arguing is more favorable.

• 42:56Speaker 06

  Oh, echo chamber.

• 42:57Steven Rinella?

  Yanni once observed that, Yanni observed one time that he's like, Steve always has a different headlamp, but somehow he always has the best headlamp.

• 43:12Steven Rinella?

  It's just because he has it, it must therefore be the best. All right, Jesse, what the hell is a green Michelin star, man? What's a Michelin star?

• 43:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, let's talk about that first.

• 43:24Steven Rinella?

  And what's a Michelin tire?

• 43:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, so the Michelin company, who, you know, owned vast rubber plantations in Southeast Asia.

• 43:33Steven Rinella?

  Did they?

• 43:33Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. And they made tires. And so they started making a travel guide many, many years ago. And they would rate restaurants, mostly in France. And to get one, two, or three Michelin stars was very big deal. And it had their-

• 43:47Steven Rinella?

  To encourage people to drive around and wear out their tires.

• 43:51Speaker 02

  Yes, exactly. And so you could get one, two, or three stars. And it was for the, for a very long time, it was based on, you know, you had to have very fine cutlery, service standards, glassware, consistency. It had to be, like, for three Michelin stars was unattainable. You know, it's like, you know, very few restaurants in the world had them. One star, you know, incredible honor right there. And a few years back, they started kind of changing it up, you know, like where a Michelin star could maybe just mean it was just an exemplary restaurant. And then famously, I think, two or three years ago, they gave a taqueria in Mexico City a Michelin star.

• 44:32Speaker 02

  Just a place on the street, like no servers, no nothing. It was just, you know, just these very simple tacos. And they got a Michelin star. And that kind of shifted that whole kind of narrative as far as what it meant to get-

• 44:46Steven Rinella?

  That was probably a little bit of a rebranding for the Michelin brand themselves, I'm guessing, right?

• 44:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 44:51Steven Rinella?

  Just move away from white tablecloths and French, French high cuisine.

• 44:55Speaker 02

  Right. I mean, in a way, it was just like a little confusing, though, because you still have restaurants shooting for three stars. But I think they still save the three stars for that white tablecloth experience. And then a couple of years ago, they came out with the green star, which is what we got, which is a sustainability star. And it's all about sourcing, direct purchasing, ethical processes, even like employee programs, things like that. And so due to our, the way that we source almost everything, I guess we were considered for it. We don't, you don't get nominated, you don't put in for it or anything. An inspector comes along.

• 45:33Steven Rinella?

  You don't know who they are, right?

• 45:35Speaker 02

  No.

• 45:35Steven Rinella?

  The food's still probably got to be pretty good, though, right?

• 45:38Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like you could be making hot dogs off roadkill deer. That doesn't mean, yeah.

• 45:44Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, yeah, that is a component of it. They, they list as one of the tenants of it is. And we also got a bib gourmand, which is, means you make the guide. We didn't get a Michelin star, uh, but we made the bib gourmand, which is, means we're a recommended Michelin restaurant and then also a green star. And at last count, I thought, I think there was about 32 restaurants in the United States with green stars.

• 46:07Steven Rinella?

  Wow. I've seen some headlines recently. I, I, I want to dive into just a little bit about Michelin stars and what it means for restaurants. I would think it's like all positive, right? But I feel like I keep seeing headlines. There should be a word for when you just read a head alert, like, I used to say I was reading a thing.

• 46:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 46:28Steven Rinella?

  But then now it's like, in all honesty, I didn't.

• 46:30Speaker 02

  I don't want to fall off question about this.

• 46:34Steven Rinella?

  I've seen like headlines alluding to the idea that it's not all like that, that there's negatives to a Michelin star for a restaurant.

• 46:42Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 46:42Steven Rinella?

  But how, like what?

• 46:44Speaker 02

  Well, I mean, in all honesty, and, and with regards to all the restaurants that they got Michelin stars. And in, in Austin, I think, let's say three or four of them were barbecue places that got the star.

• 46:57Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 46:58Speaker 02

  I, you know, I, I feel that it's a wonderful thing for them. Personally, I, you know, having been in the industry for so long and having kind of this maybe antiquated idea of what a Michelin star meant, really didn't want one. In a way that like, I never felt like our restaurant was a, in the classic sense, a Michelin starred restaurant. And also you, you will start to have to deal with a good deal of scrutiny. Um, and these days that scrutiny is, can be, you know, just is pretty mean. Sometimes you wonder if it's worth it and you will see stories.

• 47:30Steven Rinella?

  Me, cause if you're on top, if you're on top, people just try to knock you off the top or?

• 47:33Speaker 02

  Right. It's, I mean, the, the irony of stuff like that is like, well, we don't think you deserve a Michelin star. And then you have to be like, well, we didn't ask for it. Somebody else said that. Or, you know, if you get like a, you know, top 10 restaurants or something like that, you know, be like, yeah, but you don't deserve that. It's like, well, we also didn't make that call. You know, somebody else said that. Now you're, now you're kind of coming at us. I mean, maybe I'm too sensitive to be a restaurant owner. Maybe, maybe is probably not even the right word for it, but, um. There is a good deal of scrutiny.

• 48:04Speaker 04

  There's probably some turnover that like employee turnover that can come with it too. Because like, oh, oh my gosh, I just got a Michigan star at the restaurant that I work with.

• 48:14Steven Rinella?

  Michigan star.

• 48:14Speaker 04

  Michigan star.

• 48:16Speaker 06

  It's a very different system.

• 48:17Speaker 04

  That's our system coming forward. We should do that for every time we're on the road.

• 48:23Speaker 04

  Michelin.

• 48:24Steven Rinella?

  Michigan star.

• 48:26Speaker 06

  It's like a Michigan hello.

• 48:29Speaker 04

  One and a half.

• 48:32Speaker 06

  You got two of them.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  But right, like you could have some employees be like, oh, holy shit, this is a great thing for the resume.

• 48:38Speaker 02

  Yeah, maybe hop around a little bit more, just, you know, that's, that's, you know, kind of punch, punch that card a little bit, you know? Oh, I worked at a Michelin starred restaurant. Sure. Definitely could happen. I think that, you know, in our case, this Green Star, when I, I knew that we were in a contender for that from the questions that they started to ask me. Like when we're getting these emails and I was like, talk about your sourcing pros practices.

• 49:03Steven Rinella?

  Who sends you the emails?

• 49:04Speaker 02

  Michelin.

• 49:05Steven Rinella?

  Oh, that's a dead giveaway.

• 49:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 49:10Speaker 02

  Then I was very, very happy because I think that if there, if I had to pick one of those two things, I would absolutely take the Green Star. Because that is the goal that we've worked to since day one. It's just like having really equitable, fair, good food purchased from our neighbors, like high quality, local stuff. And just really sticking to those guns, you know, wine, beer, everything. So the Michelin, the Green Star was really the one that I thought was like, yeah, that's actually, that is, that is a recognition that, that we will definitely take.

• 49:42Steven Rinella?

  What happens when someone, I don't want to harp on the negative, but why do you hear stories of people? Aren't there stories of people turning them in?

• 49:51Speaker 02

  Yes, Marco Pierre White, very famous chef.

• 49:55Steven Rinella?

  Not the Green Star.

• 49:56Speaker 02

  Not the Green Star.

• 49:57Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  Sometimes they'll get, you know, mad. This is probably the old days, you know, back in France.

• 50:03Steven Rinella?

  So he was like a white tablecloth guy?

• 50:05Speaker 02

  Certainly. He famously made Gordon Ramsay cry.

• 50:09Steven Rinella?

  Whoa.

• 50:10Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 50:10Steven Rinella?

  Like he was.

• 50:11Speaker 04

  About what?

• 50:11Speaker 02

  Uh, about not being a good cook. Marco Pierre White is like the.

• 50:16Steven Rinella?

  Well, that's sort of, I mean, what goes around comes around, right?

• 50:20Speaker 02

  Yeah. Gordon Ramsay was very young at the time. This kind of speaks to this whole thing. You know, like these guys are the ones that are working 120 hours a week. Just like excellence, just the screaming, the throwing of the pans, just the, the kind of nightmarish old kitchen situation that we think of.

• 50:35Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Um, and then, you know, if they go from like three stars to two stars, then maybe they just take those two stars and throw them back at Michelin or something. I'm making that story up, but you know, it would be, it would be a spite kind of deal. And, um, stars were, I mean, in, in some circles probably still are highly, highly sought after. And it's like, I mean, a life goals, you know, they want one star, two stars, three stars, you know, and, and, but I, you know, we're not really playing that game.

• 51:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Me, how, how I became aware of it is, um, my wife and I were eating dinner with Jesse in Daeduway. And I said, well, how's business been? And he said, it's been great because of the green Michelin star.

• 51:21Speaker 02

  Yep. I mean, definitely it, it, we saw a huge influx of people from that.

• 51:26Steven Rinella?

  So people cared about it.

• 51:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, Austin, uh, or Texas, you have to submit to Michelin to be inspected and you have to give them a whole bunch of money. Like millions and millions of dollars to come in and do the inspections. And once they do that, they come in and they inspected Dallas, Houston, Austin, San Antonio. And then, uh, from there, they're going to start making for the first time ever, no, no, but no restaurant in Texas ever had a star. Uh, and they came in and the, the guide came to Texas. And so you'll have, I think it's, you know, some sort of Texas, uh, hospitality or, or.

• 52:01Speaker 04

  Yeah. State tourism.

• 52:02Speaker 02

  Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. It's like kind of, yes, please come do this thing. And so, and then it, it brought in, uh, they brought in the inspectors and then a bunch of restaurants in Texas were granted stars. Um, a couple, two, I think just two green stars in Texas. Um, and, uh, and then a bunch of stars for restaurants in San Antonio, Austin, Houston, Dallas. And, uh, and it really boosted all of that. I mean, it was huge in the restaurant business. It was talk of the town for a little while.

• 52:29Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm. You know what you said to us when we were eating dinner that I still don't fully understand? You mentioned feeling weird, or I can't remember how you put it. Feel self-conscious or weird or whatever, eating in your own restaurant?

• 52:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit. Yeah, I like it. I like that place a lot. And I mean, it's more, I like, the prices are right, too. But yeah, sometimes, you know, just sitting there and feel like I should be working, but.

• 52:53Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so that, okay, that's what, that's what it is.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't work nights.

• 52:56Steven Rinella?

  You look like you're slacking.

• 52:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, I hung up my night, night shift spurs a while back.

• 53:03Steven Rinella?

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• 53:48Steven Rinella?

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• 54:30Steven Rinella?

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• 55:13Steven Rinella?

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• 56:30Speaker 04

  But you know, like when we, when we went down there and interviewed Teddy Nuggets, we all went and ate with Jesse at Diet Doi. And I do remember Jesse was an awesome host, but he was like looking around at everything.

• 56:45Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 56:46Speaker 04

  As much as hanging out with us at the table.

• 56:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's true. Keep an eye on.

• 56:51Speaker 04

  It's a hard, hard thing to do.

• 56:53Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it is.

• 56:54Speaker 04

  Would you, because you said like your employee programs are part of your, your Green Star? And you're, Jesse came up with employee challenges?

• 57:05Speaker 04

  As part of their employee programs, because you know, like it's a high stress environment.

• 57:10Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 57:11Speaker 04

  Um, and you were telling me about one last night that was, I thought fantastic.

• 57:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I can guess which one.

• 57:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 57:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, every, well, I try to do it every month. Sometimes I can slack a little bit, but I, we try to give all of the back of the house employees, everybody in the kitchen, we give them something. That could be a gift card. It could be an oyster knife. It could be, it's something. It could be a steak. Um, and from that, they need to deliver back almost like an essay about that. And we will, it'll be very clearly defined. Like the first one we ever did, we made everybody go to a specific taco trailer and order the tacos there. And then I wanted them to report back on how the onions and cilantro were cut. Because it's very, very important because they're cut with Michelin star precision. Like beautiful, always super consistent and just like, and you're, you're eating.

• 58:00Steven Rinella?

  I wish we had some cilantro. Is there any cilantro in the kitchen?

• 58:04Speaker 03

  I don't think so. Do you want some now?

• 58:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I don't know. I don't know how to cut the shit up.

• 58:09Speaker 02

  The stuff is finely chopped with a knife. Well, that was there.

• 58:12Steven Rinella?

  Stems.

• 58:12Speaker 02

  And it was report back on the importance of that.

• 58:15Steven Rinella?

  Back up, back up, back up. Stems or no stems?

• 58:18Speaker 02

  Stems always with cilantro, absolutely stems.

• 58:21Steven Rinella?

  Hmm. Okay.

• 58:22Speaker 02

  Go. Yeah. Stems are good.

• 58:23Steven Rinella?

  You can't, you can't just start at one end and go to the other end, kind of bunch up with your hand.

• 58:29Speaker 02

  We're, we're really digressing, but I've been here before. Um, the stems on cilantro can be used as an aromatic, like onion or garlic. You can, you can cook those, like, like put those in the beginning, like with your carrots and stuff and they'll add a little bit of cilantro. But a nice, beautiful cooked, uh, note, but also like when you're chopping cilantro, stems are fine.

• 58:48Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So you wanted to report on this?

• 58:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, that was just, that's an example. And then another would be the, uh, you know, we're, we're facing a big shift in how oysters are gathered in the, on the coast. And so you have. Farmed oysters and you have dredged oysters and we're trying to support the farmed mariculture of oysters.

• 59:07Steven Rinella?

  Boy, did I get a yearful about this from the oyster dredgers.

• 59:09Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:11Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. Buckle up. So, uh, but, but we had, uh, one of the oyster farmers come in, um, bring a bunch of oysters. We popped a bunch of sparkling wine for the staff and everybody sat there and ate oysters. And she gave a presentation on oysters. So we learned a little bit about oysters.

• 59:26Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 59:27Speaker 02

  So every time I'm just trying to pick a topic, um, we, we really want them to connect with, uh, I mean, we're a very meat heavy restaurant. We really want them to connect with what that means. And so we had, we took all the back of the house staff out to, uh, a farm and everybody killed a chicken. And we, you know, funneled all the blood from the chicken into breadcrumbs and herbs. And then we pan fried that. Everybody ate it. We stewed a bunch of chicken. Um, and then everybody took their chicken home. And so then they had to kind of, you know, report back. And I'll give them a list of questions, you know, like, how was that? You know, some people were bawling. Some people were just like, you know, no problem. Um, and then they have to kind of report back on that.

• 1:00:10Steven Rinella?

  I feel like you could get yourself in a mild little bit of hot water with that routine.

• 1:00:14Speaker 04

  Oh, I love it though. I mean, it's, yeah.

• 1:00:17Speaker 02

  How so?

• 1:00:18Steven Rinella?

  Picture down the road, there's a headline and it says, Texas restaurant man makes employees kill chickens.

• 1:00:24Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:00:26Steven Rinella?

  You following me?

• 1:00:27Speaker 02

  It's the first sign of like being a serial killer, right? Yeah.

• 1:00:30Steven Rinella?

  And people see that Texas and that's all they needed to hear.

• 1:00:33Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:00:33Speaker 04

  Why only back of the house?

• 1:00:35Speaker 06

  The people that just read headlines would have a problem with it.

• 1:00:37Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I'd be like, yeah. That's as far as I'd get.

• 1:00:41Speaker 02

  Uh, that's a good question. Um, mostly because I feel that they, they don't earn as much. And they are also there and, and I always have this two-way street principle with, with, I mean, everybody that works there. But like, you know, you work really hard for us. We educate you and give you as much knowledge as we possibly can. Like, there's no secrets, you know, any recipe, any technique, anything that anybody at that restaurant knows should be always shared. And so we try to add value to the back of the house experience through that, through this program specifically. And so we have about fourteen people in the back of the house. They all participate and they always do. It's great. There's, there's, it's really fun.

• 1:01:24Speaker 05

  So is that not changing at all? Cause you know, I did a few years in the restaurant industry.

• 1:01:28Speaker 02

  Long tongue.

• 1:01:29Speaker 05

  That's what I call it. Long tongue, Yanni. And. Tuscaninis. Yeah, it's like when that light bulb goes off and you're like, wait a minute, how much did you make tonight? And then you look at your paycheck and you're like, it could be half or a third of your, you know, like a two week paycheck. And they, they cleared it in one night in cash tips. It's like very hard to stay in the back of the house. And I've always thought that, you know, someone would be working on, and I think at some places they do even pool tips with the back of the house.

• 1:01:58Speaker 02

  We do.

• 1:01:59Speaker 05

  Right?

• 1:01:59Speaker 02

  Oh, you guys do. Yeah.

• 1:02:01Speaker 05

  But even then it's still.

• 1:02:02Speaker 02

  It's disparity. There's a clear disparity, but that is again, why we introduced that. Our back of the house managers, every month they get a cookbook. So if you've worked there for three years, you've got forty cookbooks. Any one you want, pick out a cookbook, you get it. And then we do this, you know, there's pretty good health benefits, mental health benefits, things like that. Just trying to add value to the back of the house experience because it's a hard job and it doesn't pay as well as front of the house. And so just being able to add stuff like this is, I don't know, a effective benefit that we can extend to them.

• 1:02:39Speaker 05

  So I'm sorry, the chicken deal, we didn't get to get to this last night, but like you had people go home, roast their chicken. And then report back on that.

• 1:02:49Speaker 02

  That was the next month. So yeah, so after they killed their chicken, you know, they reported on how that, the whole thing went down with them, you know? And then reflecting on that, you know, because we deal with lots and lots of dead animals coming through the restaurant, you know, just, and you got to see. Well, fourteen of them die. You got to do one yourself, you know, hopefully that sticks, you know, and helps with waste and things like that. You're not going to be like, yeah, whatever, this quail, I dropped, or no, dropped it, of course, it's going to trash. But, um, but, you know, like, just have that.

• 1:03:17Speaker 04

  Well, it wouldn't go in the trash at my house.

• 1:03:19Speaker 02

  The respect that, that, that we're really trying to instill on them. And then the next month, yes, they roast the chicken. And then since there's, you know, a million different ways, always said, just roast it however you want and report back on how you roast it. So we get into kind of technique and everybody is comparing notes on that.

• 1:03:34Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:35Speaker 02

  And just make it kind of a fun, interactive thing where everybody's, um, just exchanging information. And it's all done through a, a chat. So it's like you're submitting a written essay.

• 1:03:45Steven Rinella?

  I got it. You know what, um, this won't matter to anyone but, but me, but you're combining two, you're probably talking about chickens, killing chickens and collecting the blood and all that. That's colliding with the different thing that's in my head right now, which is I'm reading a new book about.

• 1:04:06Speaker 04

  I think we can all agree that's never happened to me.

• 1:04:11Steven Rinella?

  Happens to me a fair bit.

• 1:04:15Steven Rinella?

  I'm reading a book about the Battle of Manila. The Oxford University Press just put out a book about the Battle of Manila.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:23Steven Rinella?

  In the Philippines.

• 1:04:23Speaker 02

  World War II?

• 1:04:24Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:25Speaker 02

  Okay. MacArthur?

• 1:04:27Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:28Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:04:30Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to give the end away.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  Did he return?

• 1:04:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, he returned. But, um, my God, man. Like, the Japanese knew they couldn't win. And, um, I'm getting to chickens in a minute. Japanese knew they couldn't win. They killed a hundred thousand civilians in Manila, just as like a departing gift.

• 1:04:56Steven Rinella?

  Anyhow, uh, years ago, I was in the Philippines and I went to cockfights, which is probably the, of, of the days I've spent in my life, one of the most influential days I've ever had in my life was being at the cockfights, where they, you know, they lash the blades on those chickens. It's hard to follow the action because the chickens fight fast. It was great. But the thing that struck me is they got a big kettle of boiling water and they got a big funnel.

• 1:05:27Steven Rinella?

  All these cocks, I'm sure this is not happening in a lot of more affluent places. This is down way in the south of the Philippines, just north of Mindanao. But

• 1:05:37Steven Rinella?

  they, when the cock fights go on, as soon as your cock gets killed, you go and it's like a little assembly line.

• 1:05:46Speaker 03

  You make soup?

• 1:05:47Steven Rinella?

  They drain the blood into the funnel, it's collected in the bucket, they got the boiling water, you plunge your deal, pluck your rooster, and everybody that's leaving is leaving with plucked.

• 1:05:59Steven Rinella?

  Everybody's leaving with plucked roosters. And I imagine a lot of those don't, a lot of those fighting cocks don't wind up in a cook bit pot.

• 1:06:08Speaker 06

  Why not?

• 1:06:10Steven Rinella?

  Because people just aren't gonna, people don't want roosters, probably, I don't know.

• 1:06:12Speaker 02

  They eat bowls after bullfights.

• 1:06:14Speaker 06

  Well, hold on, if they're gonna go through that, and that's as mu, if that, if it's that much of a process, they're not being forced to pluck their birds, are they?

• 1:06:23Speaker 02

  They have to be eating them.

• 1:06:25Steven Rinella?

  No, no, no.

• 1:06:25Speaker 02

  There's probably an energetic level to it.

• 1:06:27Speaker 06

  I know, but you're saying they, they're not getting eaten.

• 1:06:30Steven Rinella?

  I bet you, I'm, I'm not like, I wanted to get into, I wanted to get into going to more cockfights. I used to, I used to hang out with this Dominican dude, and, and he would go back to Dominican Republic just to go to cockfights, and I was gonna go, but my wife was pregnant, she thought it was inexcusable that I was going to cockfights. Well, anyway, I didn't go, I've only been to one cockfight. But what I'm saying is-

• 1:06:50Speaker 03

  Can we start that trend, cockfights and roller pigeon derbies?

• 1:06:53Steven Rinella?

  There, you can't do them here, but, uh, Ricard, you know the writer Ricard Bilger, you ever hear of him? Um, he's the guy, you know how like noodling for flatheads became a huge thing? Ricard Bilger like, made that, he had a book, Noodling for Flatheads, it was about like southern tradition. He wrote a piece, a big piece about cockfighting, the back, like illicit underground cockfighting in, in the US. Anyhow.

• 1:07:18Speaker 06

  Have you read Clifford Geertz's The Balinese Cockfight?

• 1:07:22Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 1:07:22Speaker 06

  It's a classic anthropological study.

• 1:07:25Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 1:07:25Speaker 06

  Where he goes to, um, he goes to Bali and he, he, it's just this deep

• 1:07:33Speaker 06

  analysis of how you can explain all of these, like all of Balinese society, by the way, that the cockfight unfolds and how people behave around there.

• 1:07:41Steven Rinella?

  Maybe I'll read that.

• 1:07:42Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:07:44Speaker 06

  I didn't know you were such an aficionado.

• 1:07:46Steven Rinella?

  I'm not. I went to all cockfights. I went to, I spent a day at the cockfights. It was one of the most influential days of my life. And I'm just, I just thought, I guessed, I don't know, maybe a big cockfighter can write in and tell me. I bet you, you could go to a lot of cockfights and not see the cocks handled as a culinary item with quite the level of precision that one sees in the Philippines. Yeah, oh, I see, I see. So I'm trying to get to, they're even collecting the blood, which Jesse was just talking about.

• 1:08:19Speaker 06

  Gotcha.

• 1:08:20Speaker 04

  Jesse, you will get in trouble if you do a monthly challenge and it's cockfighting. I think, since you're restaurant based, the killing of a chicken.

• 1:08:31Steven Rinella?

  That green star.

• 1:08:34Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's funny that you bring up cockfights, because we were just hanging, when we hung with Heffelfinger in Arizona, we talked about cockfighting. And he was like, the hypocrisy, you know, of saying that you can't do that here. But then to go and buy a chicken breast and to know how that chicken, in the environment that it lived in, and what it was subjected to, versus the life that a cock, a fighting cock lives. Like, if you had pet chickens, you would always choose to have your chicken live the life of a fighting cock versus one that's grown in, you know, American poultry breeding farm.

• 1:09:14Steven Rinella?

  I just had my, I just had my first little bit of, like, teenage idealism spring up in one of my kids, who's 14. Short-lived. He got, no, he got to watching, he got to watching Amal Wright's videos that are real, that hack on industrial farming. And he declared he's only gonna eat wild meat. No more fast food. And he was showing me a video where there's like a conveyor belt at a chicken producing facility. It's a conveyor belt full of eggs and chicks that goes into a grinder, and it's just unwound and it just like never ends. Just a conveyor belt. Little yellow chicks and eggs and just whatever.

• 1:09:56Steven Rinella?

  Into this grinder.

• 1:09:57Speaker 02

  10 million chickens a day.

• 1:09:58Steven Rinella?

  And he's like, man, and this is just like the unwanted.

• 1:10:01Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:10:02Steven Rinella?

  Little chicken babies. And he said, he like bowed up and down, he's never gonna ever eat anything but wild meat. And I'm like, yeah, welcome to, welcome to being a teenager.

• 1:10:14Steven Rinella?

  You'll find these things get harder and harder to stay true to the older you get.

• 1:10:18Speaker 02

  I mean, that's the, that was the whole point of that exercise is like, this happens 10 million times every day. You just did it once and it was kind of.

• 1:10:25Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  Definitely worth, worth a second look.

• 1:10:30Steven Rinella?

  Walk through, just so people get a, the sense of how you guys run stuff at your restaurant. Pick a thing like, um, how you guys do your own beef tallow. Or how you guys do, what were you talking about the other day? I don't know what you guys do when you get a bunch of blueberries, just something like that.

• 1:10:45Speaker 04

  Oh, yeah. And your fermentation, like you guys have months long, months long prep processes.

• 1:10:50Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:10:51Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Cause I was with, I was with you one time and you were all hopped up. We were down at, uh, we were down in South Texas. And you were all worked up about buying every piece of, uh, citrus.

• 1:11:02Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:11:02Steven Rinella?

  You could find and every pecan you could find.

• 1:11:05Speaker 02

  Oh, I, I just made a run.

• 1:11:06Steven Rinella?

  Fill in a van full of that stuff.

• 1:11:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. I just, well, that, that place that you and I went to closed and so we have to go even farther south now.

• 1:11:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:13Speaker 02

  And so we just, we, it wasn't that much farther. We, we drove, we drove further down that highway and finally found a citrus stand. And I rolled in there and, um, we bought, I think 12 cases of lemons. And it's the first time we'd had lemons in months. Uh, and then brought them back and everybody's joyous and happy about it.

• 1:11:32Steven Rinella?

  So pick anything like, what I'm trying to, what I want you to do is explain an example of, because in, in Dido, everything is from around here. So you're, you're, there's a season, there's seasonality.

• 1:11:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:11:43Steven Rinella?

  It's not as severe as the north, but there's still seasonality in Texas.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:11:47Steven Rinella?

  So talk, pick an example of something where, wha- what you, what you need to do, because you can't just buy lemons whenever you want, right?

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, lemons are always a really good example, I think, you know, it's because like something as simple as iced tea, also tea. You know, so we use Yopon Holly, which is the only uh plant that naturally contains caffeine in North America. And it grows as a uh like a invasive understory in East Texas. And so we get Yopon Holly leaves and make tea out of that.

• 1:12:17Steven Rinella?

  How do you get those?

• 1:12:18Speaker 02

  Uh, there's, there's actually a couple of producers uh that make it. They're out there harvesting it and then they do the whole drying process and then supply tea, which is really cool. Um, that they're making that product out of, out of this, this, I mean, it's everywhere.

• 1:12:30Steven Rinella?

  So your tea is from Texas?

• 1:12:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:33Steven Rinella?

  You know, I could see a campaign, like we put the tea back in Texas.

• 1:12:36Speaker 02

  It's pretty, pretty solid.

• 1:12:42Speaker 02

  And so, but most of the year, if you get iced tea and you say, hey, can I have a lemon with that? We're like, sorry, you know, and we have to give that, we don't say sorry. We, we, we spend it in this like more educational direction of like, oh, well, we, we only source things from here. So sometimes in October, you know, barring a hard freeze the previous February, we will see some lemons and uh, you know, for a brief window of time, if you wanted a lemon with your iced tea, we had it.

• 1:13:10Speaker 02

  But we go through, like, we just recently had a, our, our pork producer, our domestic pork producer went through a uh, he, he, he just ran out of product, you know? And he's like, listen, I need six to eight weeks to get caught back up. And, and we're not going to have any pork for a pork chop or bacon, all this stuff. And so we uh, it was, it was fun. We totally pivoted to feral hogs. And so we were just uh, you know, having conversations with our, the processor that, that handles all the hogs, you know, like what we're, what we're looking for. Luckily, it's at, it's at peak time of year for feral hogs, like kind of their, when they're ripe.

• 1:13:48Speaker 04

  I can see it like cradling the phone between your neck and your ear as you're, you're loading your 50 round mag on your AR.

• 1:13:58Speaker 02

  And so we, we had to, we had to pivot to that, which was, you know, very, I mean, on brand for us at least. And people, because like the pork chop is a very popular item, but they would come in and be like, oh.

• 1:14:09Steven Rinella?

  Oh, my God, that pork chop's good.

• 1:14:10Speaker 02

  Well, we don't have it right now, but we do have these much smaller wild boar chops prepared in exactly the same way. And did a bunch of just different things, but we were having to process. You know, for every domestic hog, we're having to process three 70-pound feral hog carcasses. But luckily, they're all of, you know, they're at their fattest right now because we had a really, really killer acorn pecan drop.

• 1:14:32Steven Rinella?

  How long does that run for when they're fat?

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  It depends on weather. So I mean, you get like your tree mass drop in October, November, but we had most atypical year and we have, we still have pecans dropping right now. And, and it's late February, March. So we've had a really incredible year, relatively dry. So all that stuff sits on the ground really well. And so the feral hogs have maintained a really high level of fat in the regions that have those trees. I see. Dominant. So like Hill Country and just to our southeast. And that's where we try to get our hogs from. And so they just look really good. So it was very, very optimal timing for that lag to happen where we could just shift into the feral hogs because they were so fatty.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  But that, I mean, that's kind of the level of thinking that we have to put in an organization. We have to call the processor and be like, listen, man, we're going to need, we're going to need you to call out, you know, four, five, six whole feral hogs weekly of, of optimal fat content and get them to us in this interim. And made it work.

• 1:15:39Steven Rinella?

  There was a restaurant, do you remember that restaurant out on, it was out in San Juan's, San Juan Islands on the Willows? It was really wanting to be in a real controversial deal because they were acting like, you know what I said the name of the restaurant, Phil?

• 1:15:57Steven Rinella?

  Which restaurant?

• 1:15:58Speaker 04

  It's kind of what that, that recent.

• 1:15:59Steven Rinella?

  Well, I don't want.

• 1:16:00Speaker 04

  The menu is based off of kind of.

• 1:16:02Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to get in over my waders here, but I don't want to like, someone fact check.

• 1:16:06Speaker 04

  Was it on Vat? No, it wasn't on Vash.

• 1:16:08Steven Rinella?

  I don't want to like, yeah, Willows.

• 1:16:13Steven Rinella?

  And there was like an expose. Damn, I don't want to like, what's it called when you say something? Oh, this is coming back to me now. Yeah. We don't want to per, not perjure. I don't want slander. Anyways, they had a thing where it was like, everything's from around here, but then there was a, nevermind. I shouldn't have brought it up.

• 1:16:31Speaker 02

  I mean, and to be, to be fair, we, there, there are some things, you know, like there's some flour and sugar.

• 1:16:37Steven Rinella?

  Well, no, no, no, I mean, no.

• 1:16:38Speaker 04

  It's on Lummy Island, the Willows Inn.

• 1:16:40Steven Rinella?

  I wasn't gonna do that, but I mean, it was like a more like what, the point I was gonna make is that you, cause you couldn't get the pork chops you wanted from the guy you wanted from, you pulled them from your menu? As opposed to running down to Costco.

• 1:16:54Speaker 02

  Right. A lot of places, unfortunately, that say local, or we use local and organic products whenever possible, aren't doing it. It's, it's widespread.

• 1:17:04Steven Rinella?

  Widespread.

• 1:17:05Speaker 04

  I do want to point out that it permanently closed in 2022. So, you know, you're.

• 1:17:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, they, it was a, they were, it was a little, uh,

• 1:17:17Steven Rinella?

  deceptive. I went there and I could, I smelled the fish. Not just the fish that was on my plate. I smelled the fish. I was like, man, doesn't seem right. Doesn't seem right. It doesn't, it doesn't add up.

• 1:17:30Speaker 06

  When you say local whenever possible, you leave yourself a lot of, uh.

• 1:17:34Speaker 02

  Well, it wasn't possible.

• 1:17:35Speaker 06

  It's, yeah.

• 1:17:36Speaker 04

  Or more to the point.

• 1:17:38Speaker 06

  It depends on how hard you want to try to, to get local.

• 1:17:41Steven Rinella?

  They would do this thing where they're like, they, they serve some sea cucumbers and she gestures out the window.

• 1:17:50Steven Rinella?

  Lead, being like they're, right? She gestures out the window. As though they, they were caught, they were picked right there. Or it's all that like our friends at this, our friends at that, our friends at this. And then you look the stuff up and you're like, sure, they're friends? You know, kind of like, and then like everything's from the garden, but the garden's not that big.

• 1:18:12Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 1:18:12Steven Rinella?

  And it's in, it's in, it, it's in a temperate rainforest.

• 1:18:18Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:18:19Steven Rinella?

  And there's like limits to how much you can grow at that latitude.

• 1:18:22Speaker 02

  Certainly.

• 1:18:24Steven Rinella?

  And you just, after a while, I was like, ah, come on, man. Like running with it hard.

• 1:18:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:18:29Steven Rinella?

  You know?

• 1:18:30Speaker 04

  But just like what you said about the, I mean, think of the ability, the logistical ability that you need to have to forecast and work around your primary.

• 1:18:43Speaker 04

  Hog protein supplier saying like six to eight weeks. We're out. I mean, I think that's plenty for people to be like, oh, this green Michelin star thing's pretty cool. But boy, Cisco truck. Every Wednesday.

• 1:18:55Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:18:56Speaker 04

  Right?

• 1:18:56Speaker 02

  I mean, it's all it's enabled by the fact that we have such a good relationship with with that producer. You know, and we've we've known him for 17 years. And so when he he called, he gave us for plenty of head head start. And it enables us to do it. But I think people expect that of us, you know? And we expect that of ourselves, too. We're not gonna, we're not gonna ever purposely not serve something that we don't know about. We've been misled before. We've been cheated. You know, we've had farmers show up and swear up and down that they grew this thing. And then we find a little grown in Mexico sticker on one of them.

• 1:19:30Speaker 04

  No, really?

• 1:19:30Speaker 02

  It's happened. It's happened. And it's like, what do we do at that point? You know, it's like a very confusing. It's a conundrum. It's and it and you and you will have people just and we had one guy in particular. Like, he misled us for years about product. And it was it was devastating because I was like, man, that's our reputation right there. Like, we stake everything on this. And I think he just he got into a lie and then never got out of it. And then when we found out, we were just like, we kicked him to the curb. But like, don't ever come back here, man.

• 1:19:58Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:19:59Speaker 02

  It was rough.

• 1:20:00Speaker 04

  Well, so what about something like quail, right? So I mean, you deal in like exotics, which would be a Neil guy and the odd ad that that we mentioned. And then feral hogs, we've covered a bunch like there's a a legal way to get those to a resale market.

• 1:20:19Speaker 04

  But yeah, what about quail? How does how does that work?

• 1:20:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, you have the you have like game birds or game animals. And then you have wild game, I think. And there's I think there's two distinct categories. And we're also very upfront about that, you know, duck, you know? There's some restaurant in New York City that's just like, you know, advertising that they're selling wild duck. I'm like, you want to probably tap the brakes on that. First off, you're not.

• 1:20:44Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:20:44Speaker 02

  You know, it's just but you also don't even know enough about the topic to know that that's been illegal for more than a century.

• 1:20:52Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:20:52Speaker 02

  And but, you know, it just sounds good to them. And but we we serve farm raised duck, you know, we serve farm raised quail. And but then beyond that, if we're presented with an opportunity to source like true wild game, we absolutely will. And we we're in Texas where it's. Pretty easy. It's facilitated by TDA, the Department of Agriculture, and we can get nilgai. And this is why we tend towards nilgai especially is because they don't like corn. And their field harvested in the wild by Broken Arrow Ranch by shooters and helicopters. We tend towards nilgai because of that, because it is such a pure ingredient. It's an invasive.

• 1:21:36Speaker 02

  We'll get some access here and there. And then feral hog has to be trapped live and then brought to the processor and killed with an anti-mortem inspection. And then a post-mortem inspection and then we can get them like that. We can't go out and shoot them. And if you have them in your back of your truck, we can't take those either.

• 1:21:55Steven Rinella?

  Do people show up ever?

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  A couple of times, but a lot of offers, a lot. Hey, we got all that you could ever use. I'm like, that's not how it works, really. There's very strict protocols behind that. And then lately, we've been sourcing a lot of oddad. And oddads on the menu. Those are maybe coming from high fence places, maybe coming from low fence places or catching them in big pen traps. But we're putting oddad on there as part of a, like a wider campaign to just educate people on the pure edibility of oddad. Well, yeah.

• 1:22:31Speaker 03

  Can you go into that more? Cause I'm doing oddad hunt in Texas with my boyfriend and Corey, actually in April.

• 1:22:37Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, to me, oddad are kind of these, they're like hogs in a lot of ways. And but they just inhabit, I mean, in an impact. And then they inhabit different regions, you know, the far hill country, all the way out to West Texas where there's a lot of them.

• 1:22:57Speaker 02

  And they're widely not eaten. And so we have them on our menu.

• 1:23:02Speaker 04

  And when you say widely, let's just like set the stage here.

• 1:23:05Steven Rinella?

  I found it to be a rough, I ate one down to the bone. I found it to be a pretty rough meat.

• 1:23:10Speaker 03

  Did you, how is that prepared?

• 1:23:12Steven Rinella?

  We made, I made everything.

• 1:23:13Speaker 03

  Oh, you made it. I mean, you made it. Okay.

• 1:23:16Speaker 04

  Tough or rough is like it wasn't palatable?

• 1:23:19Speaker 02

  May I preface the question? No, no. Did you cook it in a dry heat method? Like, did you grill it or smoke it?

• 1:23:28Steven Rinella?

  I made jerky with it. We made barbacoa with it.

• 1:23:31Speaker 02

  Oh, okay.

• 1:23:32Steven Rinella?

  We cooked its lungs, not its lungs. We cooked its kidneys, heart, liver.

• 1:23:38Steven Rinella?

  And then I did various like roasts and whatnot.

• 1:23:41Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:23:42Steven Rinella?

  I never, I, it just wasn't, you know, it wasn't, it to me wasn't, I wasn't like, oh my God, I can't wait to get another oddad.

• 1:23:49Speaker 02

  Was it flavor or texture?

• 1:23:50Steven Rinella?

  Flavor, strong.

• 1:23:51Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:23:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I just, it just wasn't my favorite.

• 1:23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:23:54Steven Rinella?

  But everything can't be your favorite.

• 1:23:55Speaker 02

  No, I, I love it, but also I have to be really clear and I've never had an oddad from west Texas. We've only eaten hill country oddad.

• 1:24:04Steven Rinella?

  Hmm, mine was from very west Texas.

• 1:24:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, so maybe sagey.

• 1:24:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, just like, it was bad, it was just, I, I kind of got, a lot of times you eat something. Like, like take javelina, for instance. If you just took like.

• 1:24:20Steven Rinella?

  If you're cooking a javelina, you're gonna be doing steps and processes, right? You can't just, you don't, no one just takes like a javelina steak and throws it in the pan, right? It's like a thing that requires you to bring a certain level of expertise to it. I found oddad to be the kind of thing where you need to bring a level of expertise to get something that you would be comfortable just serving to friends that come over for dinner.

• 1:24:42Speaker 02

  Sure.

• 1:24:42Steven Rinella?

  It wasn't like fail safe.

• 1:24:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think that a lot of people go wrong and they, they might treat oddad like venison and then that same person might treat venison like beef. And so you're, you're kind of failing.

• 1:24:55Speaker 02

  In that it's, it's a particularly, it's, I mean, it's a metaphorically tough meat. I mean, it's tough animal, you know, they.

• 1:25:03Steven Rinella?

  Chewy.

• 1:25:04Speaker 02

  Yes, yeah. And, uh, I mean, when you're cutting an oddad, like you can get tired, I found, you know, it's like the, the meat is just like, it's got a density to it.

• 1:25:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:14Speaker 02

  Like, you know, after I break down an oddad, I feel like I've had more like forty percent more resistance than I would if I'd just killed a doe, uh, like whitetail. And, um, the way that you approach cooking it, I mean, it's very simple, I think grind and stew. But, you know, you have to incorporate liquid into it. Um, it has to be cooked for a very long time, but I, I really like it. We grind it, we make meatballs, like your friend mentioned. Um, make meatballs out of it and we can aggregate all animals that way, too. We could get a U, we could get a ram, doesn't really matter. All goes into the pile together. But more than anything, we're just trying to, you know, illuminate the, the sheer fact that you can eat.

• 1:25:55Steven Rinella?

  Sure, man, yeah.

• 1:25:56Speaker 02

  And, and promote it. I probably the only restaurant in the hemisphere that's got oddad on the menu. I don't know of anybody else that even has access to them. And then when people say, where do you get them? I'm like, mm hmm.

• 1:26:06Speaker 03

  Is there any tender part of that that you like cut small and stir fry?

• 1:26:14Speaker 02

  The tender loins and the, the loins tend to even be a little on the dense side. If you, and backstraps have not a, not a horizontal.

• 1:26:26Steven Rinella?

  Grain.

• 1:26:26Speaker 02

  Grain to them. They have a slightly offset grain. And with an oddad, you have to be particularly careful with that. And that you have to nail that, that 90 degree on that, on that slight offset. I'd say, and it's, it's sitting at like 30, you know, degrees off. It's not just straight down. And if you, if you don't nail that, then you've still got this slight angle, this diagonal grain running through your slices. And if you get it super thin, it can be really good. I, we, uh, cooked an oddad next to a whitetail, uh, one night, just did steak frites, you know, it's like a bordelaise sauce. And, um, everybody liked the oddad just as much as the whitetail. But I had to slice it super thin. I, I love them.

• 1:27:08Speaker 02

  I, you know, we're, we're in a way so lucky that we can, you know, like me and my daughter hunt a lot and we could, we could kill axis, hogs and oddad only. And these are all these high impact invasives. And it, it feels pretty good to do something like that. And especially oddad, it's like, it's almost a goal now. I'm gonna be apologist for those as well. Try to get more people on board with, at least are equipping people with a better methodology to make it more palatable.

• 1:27:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you turn, you turn the world on to hogs and all you're gonna do, uh, you're gonna help people figure out how to do oddads.

• 1:27:46Speaker 03

  I'm probably gonna call you when I'm trying to figure out what to do with it.

• 1:27:49Speaker 02

  Where are you hunting?

• 1:27:50Speaker 03

  Um, way south, bordering Chihuahua.

• 1:27:53Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, so that's, yeah, west Texas.

• 1:27:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:27:58Steven Rinella?

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• 1:28:42Steven Rinella?

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• 1:30:10Steven Rinella?

  I used to think that like your mattress was like your shoe size. I mean, there's nothing you're gonna do to change it. But man, was I wrong. That was before I ever like had an actual good new mattress. And once I had one, I couldn't believe I'd spent my whole life sleeping on dished out junky old mattresses. Well, Helix, check this out. They got over 20 mattress models. So you can find the perfect model for you. Nothing to be embarrassed about getting yourself a new mattress. Helix has cooling upgrades too. So you can get the best rest even on hot nights. Good night's rest sets you up for a great day. Helix delivers your mattress right to your door with free shipping in the US. And you can rest easy with seamless returns and exchanges. The happy with Helix guarantee offers a risk

• 1:30:54Steven Rinella?

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• 1:31:24Steven Rinella?

  You know, I always put in, I always draw for the, I hunted them out in West Texas, but I always draw, I always put in in New Mexico. But I haven't drawn in New Mexico yet.

• 1:31:34Speaker 02

  Yeah. You'll be out in the Davis Mountains, probably.

• 1:31:36Steven Rinella?

  Cause you do like public, like in New Mexico, you can do like public land odd add hunts.

• 1:31:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:31:41Steven Rinella?

  The grain, the differentiation in the grain and the, and the back straps as you're talking about, is that something that's like characteristic to sheep in general?

• 1:31:49Speaker 02

  No, deer too.

• 1:31:51Steven Rinella?

  Deer too.

• 1:31:51Speaker 02

  Yeah. Like if you have a larger deer loin, and I'm, the ones, the deer back straps that I deal with are way smaller than what you guys have, elk or male deer, or even larger whitetails. And so if you, like, just take a really close look at it and you'll see that it's just slightly offset. And then when you're slicing it out, you're gonna, if you come in and you hit it at a very slight angle, you're gonna be getting that true 90 degree on it. And that's where you get the most tenderness out of that slice.

• 1:32:18Steven Rinella?

  Gotcha. No, I thought you were, yeah, okay. How do these odd adds come to you?

• 1:32:23Speaker 02

  In what way?

• 1:32:24Steven Rinella?

  Form?

• 1:32:25Speaker 02

  Uh, they're, they're trapped in, uh, the same types of traps that the feral hogs come in, uh, are trapped in. So you've got your, like your cell phone style, uh, drop gate traps.

• 1:32:35Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:32:35Speaker 02

  Um, and so they'll just wait for them and, um, drop the trap on them. And, uh, and we've been so consistent that we've been able to get them because then our processor is talking to trappers. And then once that incentive, uh, like stream is reached, they know, oh, we need more odd add. And so they'll start bringing us more.

• 1:32:53Steven Rinella?

  But what I mean is how do they show up at your place? In what form?

• 1:32:57Speaker 02

  Um, either trim or whole carcass, depending what our needs are.

• 1:33:01Steven Rinella?

  Cut off behind the ears?

• 1:33:04Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. Yeah. The skin and gutted, uh, whole carcass. Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:33:08Steven Rinella?

  You don't have a big old pile of them horns laying around now?

• 1:33:11Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:33:11Steven Rinella?

  No?

• 1:33:12Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:33:13Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:33:13Speaker 03

  I got a question. So you were saying like the odd add, like it needs like moisture or water. So I, um, defrosted, uh, some, uh, rib meat that I had sliced out from white, from whitetail.

• 1:33:30Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:33:31Speaker 03

  And I seared on a cast. I was just in a rush. I wasn't trying to prep a meal. I just want to eat some meat. So I just like put some dry rub seasoning oil through in the cast iron pan, just a couple of minutes.

• 1:33:44Steven Rinella?

  I'm, I'm already reaching for my dental floss. I'm reaching for my dental floss stick right now. He had a quick meal. So I just thought I had to chew on it. For three years.

• 1:33:53Speaker 03

  As, as an aside, I'm, I don't always like soft textured meat. I don't always want like a really soft backstrap. Like I'm used to eating tendon, which sometimes can be like melt in your mouth, right? But sometimes it's chewier. So I'm like, I think the, the, the breath of, of meat textures and I'm comfortable with and happy to gnaw on. Like that's, I mean, in Asian cuisine, right? It's just not exactly the same, but. But I felt like the meat was, it was juicier and yeah, like there was a little bit of chew, but it was juicier. Then I used some of the same rib meat and I like, whatever, did Chinese five spice,

• 1:34:38Speaker 03

  daikon, blah, blah, blah, threw that in the pressure cooker for 12 minutes. Now that meat was so dry, but like kind of pull apart and I really didn't like that. What happens?

• 1:34:49Speaker 02

  It's collagen. So belly is very specific to this where you're gonna have these striations of lean meat, very dense lean meat, a very thick and solid layer of collagen or silver skin and then typically layers of fat and you might repeat that a couple of times. And so collagen isn't gonna melt into gelatin until it hits about 190 over a period of time. Now, a pressure cooker can achieve that, but if you just cook it really quick, then, then you're not gonna hit that. I mean, you might hit 190, but you're not gonna hit it for two or three hours that it's gonna start to break down. I always, you know, like pork, and people sometimes are surprised, like pork is cooked

• 1:35:31Speaker 02

  through at one temperature, but it shreds at a different one. It's cooked through at, you know, 160, 165, but when pork shoulder starts to fall apart, that's 195, 200. And so that's that collagen breaking down and then fat and things like that.

• 1:35:45Speaker 03

  That's what that is. But the meat itself feels drier. Like I wanted it.

• 1:35:50Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's possible too. I don't have a ton of experience with pressure cookers, so I don't know really what happened there. If that, if you had braised that maybe with some sort of liquid, like it was in a, maybe a more moderate temperature, you might have had a more silken experience. For me, braising meats, like stew meat, or if you wanna make a sugo or ragu or bolognese, chili, bourguignon, no better meat than rib meat.

• 1:36:18Speaker 03

  Okay. But you're, but you're doing that long and slow on.

• 1:36:23Speaker 02

  Four, five, six hours.

• 1:36:25Speaker 03

  No pressure cooker stuff. Yeah, you do it the real way.

• 1:36:27Steven Rinella?

  You know what dish years I've been making a fair bit when I'm having company over? Is that one, that.

• 1:36:37Steven Rinella?

  That that German style roulade.

• 1:36:39Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, that is like one of the most popular because we did it on the show down there at Theataria. And I rolled that whole belly out. People love that. It's it and it's accessible and it's a new use for that cut that they just didn't really consider before and it's so easy to peel that whole thing off.

• 1:36:58Steven Rinella?

  You gotta be, I mean, you gotta be decent with a knife. So what Jesse does, like if you're sitting there at home picture, like picture you got a skinned out deer carcass laying there.

• 1:37:10Steven Rinella?

  A lot of guys are gonna remove the rib meat. You're just gonna kind of go between the ribs and get all these strips that look like a jerky strip. Not suitable for jerky, but it's gonna look like a jerky strip. Picture that you came in and removed all the meat in one big sheet. So that you got every rib you come to, you got to skin around, not skin around, every rib you come to, you got to flay around the rib. Up and over, up and over, and you wind up with, like you basically remove that deer's side as a sheet. And then Jesse lays.

• 1:37:41Speaker 02

  Mustard.

• 1:37:43Steven Rinella?

  Yep, good seedy, good seedy mustard over it.

• 1:37:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:37:47Steven Rinella?

  Pickled jalapenos.

• 1:37:48Speaker 02

  Yep, onion.

• 1:37:50Steven Rinella?

  Onion. What else you put in there?

• 1:37:52Speaker 02

  Just mustard, bacon, onion, and then some sort of pickle. Traditional German would be just like a gherkin or like a cornichon style pickle. Or dill pickles even, and then you roll that up.

• 1:38:03Steven Rinella?

  Roll that up, tie it and then braise it. Man, the suckers are good, man.

• 1:38:07Speaker 02

  They're good. Good.

• 1:38:08Steven Rinella?

  And I've been cooking the hell out of those when I get, you know, when I get a piece.

• 1:38:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:12Steven Rinella?

  That's good.

• 1:38:13Speaker 02

  Yeah, I I love that. I always take that off the deer. You also don't have to go in and get that that meat between the ribs. A lot of times I'll just take that whole sheet off and then later I'll come in and peel that or or or cut that meat out, the intercostal or the finger.

• 1:38:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but it just depends on what time of year it is because like if if.

• 1:38:34Speaker 05

  There's a time of year where you can see through.

• 1:38:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah. Like if you kill a buck that's been, if you kill a buck that's been gone through the rut.

• 1:38:42Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:43Steven Rinella?

  I mean, you gotta get in there to wind up with a whole sheet.

• 1:38:47Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:47Steven Rinella?

  Because they lose so much weight.

• 1:38:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:38:49Speaker 05

  Yeah, if you take, take the hide off, it basically turns into jerky in 12 hours on its own on the bone.

• 1:38:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, like you leave it hanging in the wind and all of a sudden it's like, it's like a glass. You can kind of see through it.

• 1:39:02Steven Rinella?

  But yeah, that, that is a good dish. Uh, there's one I texted you about the other day because I like your, uh, this is more of a.

• 1:39:08Speaker 05

  Hey, can I do a, I want to have a follow up question because I think oftentimes I look at that slab of meat and I'm like, man, it's all covered up and foamy, purple, bloodshot, you know? How do you deal with that?

• 1:39:23Speaker 02

  I, I mean, if you've lost part of it, then I don't, I don't mess with bloodshot stuff. I cut it out.

• 1:39:28Speaker 05

  Well, but it's not, it's not like it's actually where the impact was or even where like the little, you know, area around the impact is, but it's just like the,

• 1:39:37Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:39:37Speaker 05

  the blood and the purple stuff is spread. Like at some point, do you do some cleaning?

• 1:39:42Speaker 02

  I'd trim what I can, but if you've lost one of your sides or flanks or whatever you want to call it.

• 1:39:48Speaker 05

  It is what it is. All right.

• 1:39:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I, I do it. I, I do that cut when I see a piece that is suitable.

• 1:39:56Speaker 02

  But.

• 1:39:56Steven Rinella?

  I've made, I did it with, um, I took, pulled a big sheet off of a moose. It was too much.

• 1:40:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's gonna be, yeah.

• 1:40:05Steven Rinella?

  It's too much. It's like, yeah, there's a lot of, there's a lot going on between the layers of all the good stuff in the middle. It just winds up being like,

• 1:40:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I could see that.

• 1:40:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's too much of a good thing.

• 1:40:15Speaker 02

  Yeah. What was the other dish you were talking about?

• 1:40:16Steven Rinella?

  Well, I texted you. So when you and me and Katie ate dinner, one of my favorite things you guys make is that, that brined pork chop. Oh man, that thing is good, dude. So I had some, uh, I had some wild hard.

• 1:40:35Steven Rinella?

  I had a wild hog backstrap that had a nice fat layer on it. And I asked you about your brine. It was a very simple brine. I feel like you put some things in there that are dumb.

• 1:40:46Speaker 02

  The star anise?

• 1:40:48Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it's just I don't think it matters.

• 1:40:49Speaker 02

  I think it absolutely matters.

• 1:40:50Steven Rinella?

  You're the chef. You're the chef.

• 1:40:53Speaker 02

  So I made, I made some other pork chops the other night. And it's the key to that is that you brine those. And if you have like a leaner feral hog, uh, this is great. You cut those pork chops, but you brine them with that star anise, dust them in flour, a ton of onions, and then some stock. And then cook that down and just makes this nice oniony gravy. But then when you go in and you.

• 1:41:14Steven Rinella?

  Keep back up. I got, I got you confused.

• 1:41:16Speaker 02

  Just little thin slices of backstrap or pork chops.

• 1:41:20Steven Rinella?

  But I wanted, I haven't told you what I did with it, so you can't correct me.

• 1:41:23Speaker 02

  Well, I'm just, I'm a little worked up about the star anise right now. I want to give it.

• 1:41:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, explain.

• 1:41:29Speaker 02

  Did you omit it from the brine?

• 1:41:31Steven Rinella?

  Yes.

• 1:41:31Speaker 02

  Of course you did.

• 1:41:33Steven Rinella?

  You know what? I did.

• 1:41:34Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:41:35Steven Rinella?

  Cause like if I wanted it to taste like that, I'd put that on the meat.

• 1:41:39Steven Rinella?

  Rather than trusting that my brine is gonna like, you know, you, you gotta admit, dude, you have to admit. Sometimes people are putting things in brine because it looks cool in your fridge.

• 1:41:49Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:41:50Steven Rinella?

  You don't agree.

• 1:41:51Speaker 02

  The star anise is absolutely. If you like the pork chop at Dido Egg, the, the star anise is a key component to that.

• 1:42:00Steven Rinella?

  So you're telling me.

• 1:42:03Steven Rinella?

  You're telling me that if I Pepsi challenged you and I, and I did one of your pork chops.

• 1:42:10Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:42:11Steven Rinella?

  Let's do it.

• 1:42:13Speaker 05

  I'll run down to Rose Hours right now.

• 1:42:14Steven Rinella?

  I would like to see it.

• 1:42:16Speaker 02

  24 hour.

• 1:42:16Speaker 05

  I was thinking you and I could fly down to Austin and go to Dido Egg and we could have.

• 1:42:21Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna make five. I'm gonna make five. I'm gonna have your team make me five.

• 1:42:26Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:42:26Steven Rinella?

  And I'm gonna have one of them. Be with Star on East.

• 1:42:30Speaker 02

  I got it.

• 1:42:31Steven Rinella?

  And I'm gonna have you eat it and you tell me what one had in the brine.

• 1:42:34Speaker 02

  In the bag. Got it. Yeah, got it.

• 1:42:38Steven Rinella?

  It was pretty good.

• 1:42:41Steven Rinella?

  Anyways, what I did, what I, I want to hear your opinion. You know better me, but what I did is I, I soaked my, it was, you know, a wild hog backstrap. It's not a giant thing. I just did the whole damn thing in the brine.

• 1:42:53Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:42:54Steven Rinella?

  Then grilled it and sliced it.

• 1:42:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

• 1:42:56Steven Rinella?

  Son of a bitch, that was good, man. Tell me what I should have done.

• 1:43:00Speaker 02

  Put some anise in there.

• 1:43:03Speaker 02

  It's a, it's

• 1:43:04Steven Rinella?

  It's so good.

• 1:43:04Speaker 02

  It's a key.

• 1:43:05Steven Rinella?

  You think so? You don't think it's just metal masturbation?

• 1:43:08Speaker 02

  No, not at all. I always, I always compare like a, like a feral hog, especially it's got a bit of that overt, strong flavor to it. We won't use the G word. As like a, a, a rough piece of plywood and the star anise is some fine grit sandpaper coming in and buffing that up. And it's just like, it just helps it. And that's, I mean, the entire spice trade. Were we talking about this last night in Venice?

• 1:43:33Speaker 04

  A little bit.

• 1:43:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's just like

• 1:43:34Speaker 04

  But I do want to just let you know that you're in a safe place. If you haven't actually thought about your menu and the ingredients, it's okay to just say that.

• 1:43:45Steven Rinella?

  It feels like, I wondered why I was putting that in there.

• 1:43:49Steven Rinella?

  Stupid of me. Lying in bed at night.

• 1:43:53Steven Rinella?

  I never knew it was so stupid.

• 1:43:55Speaker 04

  Sitting on the shelf?

• 1:43:56Steven Rinella?

  Staring at the ceiling. I never knew it was so stupid to make one of my number one favorite dishes, the way I make it. At my award winning restaurant.

• 1:44:06Steven Rinella?

  I'm glad I talked to that young man at their podcast.

• 1:44:11Speaker 02

  But the, the entire spice trade was there to kind of mask, uh, strong meats. And so the, the spices, I think have a very, uh, clear role in that. And it's not overt. And people that hate fennel or licorice and stuff like that typically still like pork chop.

• 1:44:28Steven Rinella?

  Okay. So I was maybe a little wrong. I don't know.

• 1:44:32Steven Rinella?

  Um, I'll try.

• 1:44:34Speaker 04

  I, I'm ripping through just for funsies here.

• 1:44:39Speaker 04

  Some, uh, Google reviews of, uh, Die Do We?

• 1:44:43Speaker 02

  Oh no.

• 1:44:45Speaker 04

  And I think this would like fall in, in, uh, Steve's review category. This person, um, had a pastrami sandwich.

• 1:44:54Speaker 04

  Really good, but a little heavy.

• 1:44:57Steven Rinella?

  To pick up.

• 1:44:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, that pastrami is pretty serious.

• 1:45:02Speaker 04

  But I don't understand like what your expectation of a pastrami sandwich would be.

• 1:45:06Steven Rinella?

  It was too mu- I got too much sandwich.

• 1:45:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:09Speaker 04

  So the dining experience was great. Knocked you a star for your parking situation.

• 1:45:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, when I, when I was pouring the concrete out there, I was looking around thinking maybe a couple more, but I was like nah. I think this is enough.

• 1:45:24Speaker 04

  But I also just like think of how many restaurants there are on the planet that has no parking.

• 1:45:29Speaker 02

  Correct.

• 1:45:30Speaker 04

  None.

• 1:45:30Speaker 02

  Yes, I would like to address that person right now and be like, we rent that building, not our parking lot.

• 1:45:36Steven Rinella?

  That's the thing when you, when you're checking out a product on whatever website and then, you know, you wonder like it has some one stars and it winds up being something that's like, uh, the, the delivery guy left it, you know, at my neighbor's place.

• 1:45:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:45:51Steven Rinella?

  One star.

• 1:45:53Speaker 06

  We had a guy, we had a guy who commented, you know, he was very disappointed in you personally because of the parking situation at the University of Montana. And he said, I would have thought you could have done a, a better organized event than to have parking like that.

• 1:46:08Steven Rinella?

  Oh, geez, I'm impressed about that.

• 1:46:13Steven Rinella?

  Turkey season's coming up.

• 1:46:14Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. What, 15 days from now, me and Yanni will be, uh, uh, looking at, at gobblers 14 days from now and hopefully, get a couple upside down on the 15th.

• 1:46:27Speaker 04

  Roosting them.

• 1:46:28Steven Rinella?

  What are people dumb not to do this turkey season with their turkeys?

• 1:46:33Speaker 02

  I mean, we're gonna go.

• 1:46:33Steven Rinella?

  Let's go negative.

• 1:46:34Speaker 02

  We're gonna go baseline on this and I recently had a, an experience where I spoke to a lot of turkey hunters in one confined area. And the number that still aren't taking the legs is, is, is pretty stunning.

• 1:46:48Speaker 02

  I, I just don't get it. Like, I mean, I mean, they're, they're tough. It's like, well, you didn't cook them long enough. Legs, um, I think there's a lot of value on the wings. Montana, I just, I had no idea you have to take the wings according to the rest.

• 1:47:02Steven Rinella?

  I thought they undid that.

• 1:47:03Speaker 02

  I feel like I just saw that.

• 1:47:06Speaker 05

  You know, I, I mean, last year I, I read those rags. You see, you're still

• 1:47:10Speaker 02

  I think

• 1:47:10Speaker 05

  some posts to take the wings.

• 1:47:12Speaker 02

  Of course you did. I mean,

• 1:47:14Steven Rinella?

  Well, I know that they, they undid it on a lot of other birds.

• 1:47:17Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:47:17Steven Rinella?

  So I didn't under.

• 1:47:18Speaker 02

  Right, I saw that.

• 1:47:19Speaker 04

  I mean, obviously, this is not what a lot of people do, right? But like, if you, it is not hard to pluck a turkey. I, I will argue with anybody. Like, it just does not take that much time. Um, but if you go all the way out to the wing tips, like, those things are so full of, there's like probably more fat and collagen in that little section than a lot of the, the bird itself. So like making, um, a little stock out of those wings is absolutely worth your while.

• 1:47:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. I, I've got a routine with the wings. I am, and we, and we covered this last time. I, I don't pluck my birds. Because I, my, what I use them for, I don't need the skin on there.

• 1:47:58Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:47:59Speaker 02

  Um, I do mostly like fried turkey or cutlets off of, off of the breast.

• 1:48:03Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:48:03Speaker 02

  And then, you know, just slow cooking and shredding those legs. But, um, I will, every once in a while, I'll pluck one just to, just to look at it and have that skin. But, um, I don't know, just utilize more of it. I don't, I don't get the time deal. He sat under a tree for seven hours and take you thirty, thirty extra minutes.

• 1:48:22Speaker 02

  I don't have time for this.

• 1:48:23Steven Rinella?

  Can I, can I, can I give a, I'm gonna give, I'm not asking if I can. I'm gonna give a people leg a way to think about turkey legs. So let's say you just skin the turkey leg out. Right? So you, you skin the breast back like your breasts in the bird. You keep skinning. Um, till you get to the thighs. I like to take and cut the foot off at the ankle. Take a fillet knife and insert it and skin up. So you know, you got like where the skin meets the feather on a leg?

• 1:48:51Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:51Steven Rinella?

  That part's hard to pull.

• 1:48:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:48:53Steven Rinella?

  So take a fillet knife and, and fillet, make a skinning cut, like you're skinning a deer's leg out. Make a skinning cut a few inches up the leg. Then you skin it, it goes quicker. It helps because it's hard to skin that part the other way around.

• 1:49:04Speaker 02

  Right.

• 1:49:05Steven Rinella?

  I freeze those, so I got the drumming thigh. And I put them, if you match them up, if you're smart about your geometry, you can match them up in a bag and you actually wind up with a rectangle. In a freezer bag. Yeah.

• 1:49:17Speaker 05

  See, I'll even do them purposely part them out because I feel like the drumsticks take so much longer than the thighs. That I now cook them separately. I agree with that.

• 1:49:30Steven Rinella?

  I like that. Okay. But also two turkey legs is quite a bit. I'm not, yeah, let me finish. Sorry.

• 1:49:41Steven Rinella?

  Hear me out now.

• 1:49:41Speaker 05

  It's like that front of house, back of house tension.

• 1:49:45Steven Rinella?

  I need to be better about it. Through one, this is just one man's approach. This is one man's approach, right? So then come cooking time, I got one of those, uh, any, like I, I have some of those, when I got them, I got married. And I've been married a long time, those La Crusade, the giant oval La Crusade thing.

• 1:50:06Speaker 03

  Those are nice.

• 1:50:07Steven Rinella?

  Alright. So nice. Lay as many of those two, three, four, whatever drumstick thigh combos. You put a season's worth of turkeys in there if you got two turkeys. Put them in there. I cover them with liquid. If I got stock, I do it with stock, but you don't even really need to do that if you're just short on time. Then I put foil over it. To help not lose my liquid from steam. And just put it, put it in your oven at 300 degrees and forget that you did it. If you gotta go work to work for nine hours, forget, just add more water and forget that you did it. Leave a sticky note that says, do not mess with oven. So that your wife doesn't come in and turn the oven off because you're not home and haven't been home in hours. Yeah.

• 1:50:53Steven Rinella?

  And like, all you're doing is you're getting it to the point where you can like tear it up. And then you'll pick it. And you'll have a giant bowl to pick meat.

• 1:51:02Steven Rinella?

  Now. Get a bunch of, get a cast iron skillet and put like a quarter inch of beef tallow in it, or whatever. Bear grease. And cram that shit on that pan.

• 1:51:15Steven Rinella?

  Until the bottom is burning. Flip it until the bottom is like crispy.

• 1:51:21Speaker 03

  Let's write a recipe this way.

• 1:51:23Speaker 05

  I was gonna say, this would be a great, this would be a great approach for a cookbook.

• 1:51:26Steven Rinella?

  Yes, see. Oh, man. Star, Anna. And then you take all that and it's just like, you just do whatever you want with that. Certainly. You put it on tacos, you put it on sandwiches, I freeze it again and mark it like camping.

• 1:51:41Speaker 03

  And then no one knows.

• 1:51:41Steven Rinella?

  And then you go camping and no one feels like doing anything. Yeah. So you open that bag up, dump it into a pan. With barbecue sauce. Yeah. And have more sandwiches. It's like, it's not that hard. Yeah.

• 1:51:54Speaker 03

  Let's write the next cookbook like this.

• 1:51:56Steven Rinella?

  It's like, oh, it's like, oh, wow, now I have a giant pile of super good stuff to eat. Right. It's so easy. That I can like, do anything with.

• 1:52:06Speaker 05

  There is a couple of things that you can even, I think, to make it better, one, we talked about this recently.

• 1:52:11Steven Rinella?

  You can't make it better.

• 1:52:13Speaker 05

  Yeah. Well, no, it is, like, instead of, like, after you shred it, back into the liquid and let it sit for a day or two, just soaking in that liquid and let that meat suck that moisture back in.

• 1:52:27Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 1:52:27Speaker 05

  It makes a huge difference, I think, for any slow, low recipe with Wild Game.

• 1:52:32Steven Rinella?

  You can make it better.

• 1:52:34Speaker 05

  And then I, I would say too, when you're gonna go with the big, you know, bear grease, cast iron skillet fry session, you can't overload a pan because you're gonna bring down your temp too much. So you gotta do it in batches so you get that nice crisp that you want.

• 1:52:49Steven Rinella?

  I disagree.

• 1:52:49Speaker 05

  Because if you put all those four legs all in there at one time.

• 1:52:53Steven Rinella?

  You can't do four, no, no, because I mean, you don't have to have an impressive cast, no. I didn't mean that. Yeah, like, you got more than you can.

• 1:53:01Speaker 05

  Yeah, we can't have like two inches of turd meat going in there at once.

• 1:53:04Steven Rinella?

  That's a, that's a great clarification. You wind up, if you got like, if you got like a, like a 10 inch skillet, I don't know, what do you got like?

• 1:53:12Speaker 06

  You're making like-

• 1:53:13Steven Rinella?

  Three quarters of an inch of meat?

• 1:53:14Speaker 06

  Meat pancakes.

• 1:53:15Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you got three quarter, yeah, you're right, you can't pile them all in there, you just have a big, it'd be all steamy and you wouldn't get what you're after.

• 1:53:22Speaker 02

  This is carnitas.

• 1:53:23Speaker 05

  Now, how important is-

• 1:53:25Steven Rinella?

  I'm just trying to make it sound, oh, can you settle a little fight between me and Yanis?

• 1:53:28Speaker 05

  How, one, can I have a question first? How important is it to you, because you didn't mention this in, in your recipe here? I want to know if it's important to you, that before they go into the liquid, that you would sear or broil those legs to sort of crispy outside, put salt and pepper on them, you know, do that?

• 1:53:48Steven Rinella?

  I was trying to do, I was trying to do the thing where I'm talking people into how easy it is, so I was leaving out all these little added things one can do.

• 1:53:56Speaker 02

  I feel like, well, and-

• 1:53:58Speaker 05

  But, yeah, I want to know the answer.

• 1:53:59Speaker 02

  So-

• 1:54:00Speaker 05

  Does it make a difference?

• 1:54:00Speaker 02

  What he's describing is, is, I mean, there are other cultures do this, but, but most notably, Mexico does it, where they, there's this very slow gentle cook followed by a crispin caramelization at the end, so the carnitas effect. Um, if you were to do that in the beginning, where you're getting, achieving the Maillard reaction on the outside, getting those sugars caramelized on the meat, and then cooking it, and then doing it again, probably not, not necessary as much, because you're going to achieve that at the end.

• 1:54:28Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:54:28Speaker 02

  You're going to get that crispiness at the end, so I would just go, I would, I would-

• 1:54:32Steven Rinella?

  Straight to the liquid.

• 1:54:33Speaker 02

  Straight to the liquid, yeah.

• 1:54:35Speaker 05

  That's good, it saves me time.

• 1:54:37Speaker 04

  I'm a, I'm a bird plucker, because I don't like bring, I, I don't do a lot of like packaging in the field, so I have that skin as my barrier to dirt and everything else, and, and then when I get home, I inevitably am pulling the skin off of everything, but then I'll, I'll throw that in the stock pot.

• 1:55:00Steven Rinella?

  Hmm.

• 1:55:01Speaker 04

  Or, um, what I've done, and I'm, this is experimentation at, at home, is, uh, salt that stuff, cut it into strips, and just let it, like, sit there, uh, it's not like very moist anyway, but then, um, fry it.

• 1:55:18Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 1:55:19Speaker 02

  So now he's making chicharrones.

• 1:55:20Speaker 04

  Exactly, yeah.

• 1:55:21Steven Rinella?

  No shit, really?

• 1:55:22Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:55:23Steven Rinella?

  Huh.

• 1:55:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, it's kind of cheating, like, there's not a lot to that turkey skin, you know?

• 1:55:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:55:28Speaker 04

  But, and fried things taste great, so.

• 1:55:31Steven Rinella?

  You know what I made one time, or I actually made this- Way more than one time. Three times? Is you ever skin the whole damn turkey out?

• 1:55:41Speaker 02

  Three is way more than one.

• 1:55:43Steven Rinella?

  Well, hear me out. You'll see. You'll appreciate it.

• 1:55:45Speaker 02

  Especially if you're a sailfish.

• 1:55:51Steven Rinella?

  That's it. That's the episode. You ever skin a whole damn turkey out and then lay the hide out? And then you grind the turkey up. You grind the dark meat up. Plaster it on that hide. And then you take the breast meat and cut long strips and lay those all out. And then you take like pistachio.

• 1:56:10Speaker 02

  Ballantine.

• 1:56:10Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, galantine.

• 1:56:11Speaker 02

  Galantine.

• 1:56:12Steven Rinella?

  Galantine, yeah. And then roll it up like a sausage and then braise that. That's pretty good.

• 1:56:17Speaker 02

  That sounds good.

• 1:56:18Steven Rinella?

  That's labor intensive.

• 1:56:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:56:20Steven Rinella?

  But why don't you just, can you settle the fight between me and Yanis? This is gonna be the final word.

• 1:56:24Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:56:25Steven Rinella?

  I'm so excited. Do you know about the fight? No. You do. Of course not. Well, I mean, I have no, but at this moment. Sam Bates has been moderating the fight. Hmm.

• 1:56:34Speaker 02

  Ah, yeah, then I do know. Please, let's go.

• 1:56:39Steven Rinella?

  If you're rating food.

• 1:56:41Speaker 02

  R A T I N G?

• 1:56:42Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you're rating, you're rating a dish.

• 1:56:45Speaker 02

  You could use the synonym judging.

• 1:56:48Steven Rinella?

  You're judging food. Do you feel that if, if you're judging a dish and there's a bunch of criteria? And then those criteria get like a one to five score. So they're additive, right? Like they all need to work in like, they all need to work in synchronicity. Or they all need to, what am I trying to say?

• 1:57:08Steven Rinella?

  It's a holistic. It's a whole, yeah, you're making a holistic score with like five criteria. And all five criteria are scored one to five. Do you feel that saying approachable and creative? Creates a conflict. Where if it's one, it's less likely to be the other. And if it's the other, it's less likely to be the one.

• 1:57:31Speaker 02

  Sorry. So there's a scale that's like goes from approachable to creative?

• 1:57:36Steven Rinella?

  No, no, no. I mean, the question is really, can something be creative and approachable? It can, yes. In some circumstances, I agree. I just feel like in some cases, these things are offset. Approachability and creativity, meaning we were just talking about, let's say you were the first guy to ever make a galantine.

• 1:57:56Steven Rinella?

  You would get a very high creativity score.

• 1:58:00Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:58:01Steven Rinella?

  But approachability, someone would say, shit, I'm not gonna skin a whole damn turkey out like that. I'm gonna give that a one. That's not very approachable. That looks impossible. I just think, so my argument is that there's a conflict in scoring a dish. There's a conflict between approachability and creativity. Yanni believes that they are perfectly aligned.

• 1:58:24Speaker 02

  I wouldn't say perfectly aligned, but if you can create something, which is kind of a, one of the key tenets of writing recipes is how do you achieve both of those things? You know, how do you, because so much has already been written. So if you were to like, make a really simple brine, you know, that's easy, that's approachable. But if you want to make it really good and really creative, you put star anise in there.

• 1:58:53Steven Rinella?

  Can you answer the question?

• 1:58:54Speaker 02

  I did.

• 1:58:56Steven Rinella?

  Who wins the fight?

• 1:58:59Speaker 02

  I would, I'm gonna go Yanni because I think that you, it doesn't have to pull, you could have high scores in both, because I think if it was easy enough, and then it was just like, and it was something like, oh, I never thought of that. You know, like, that's great. That's a great little trick to do. And it's just like, it's easy. You can be creative and then you can still, I mean, you want to inspire people that cook game to actually do it. You don't want to have these crazy, complicated recipes. Maybe a couple, but for the most part, you want something approachable. But you gotta have that, what's the thing? What's the, what's the icing on there? What's the thing that really kind of makes that recipe shine? You gotta have a little bit of creativity or every recipe needs to have this one different technique, different ingredient, or something

• 1:59:42Speaker 02

  that is simple, that's just gonna elevate that beyond all the recipes they've already seen. So.

• 1:59:47Steven Rinella?

  I've been making grilled cheeses for a while, my whole life.

• 1:59:52Speaker 06

  And only a few years ago, did I discover that you can make a traditional grilled cheese. And then you finely shred some Parmesan on the outside of the grilled cheese.

• 2:00:01Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:00:02Speaker 06

  Flip it back and forth.

• 2:00:03Speaker 02

  That's it.

• 2:00:03Speaker 06

  And then you have a crust of cheese on the outside of your grilled cheese.

• 2:00:06Speaker 02

  That is, that is a perfect example of that. That is approachable and creative. I'd say five and five.

• 2:00:13Speaker 06

  Okay. I didn't come up with it.

• 2:00:16Speaker 06

  He's got his wrong answer face going on. Do you ever, uh? No, I said, I put it to, I put it to him. He came out, Yanni's right, I'm wrong. I don't care.

• 2:00:24Speaker 05

  Do you ever just make a regular grilled cheese?

• 2:00:26Speaker 06

  We'll never think about it again.

• 2:00:27Speaker 05

  But don't stop there and then add another layer of cheese and another piece of buttered bread and just flip it over. And then start making layers of grilled cheese and have maybe two or three grilled cheeses all in one.

• 2:00:39Speaker 03

  Different cheese in each layer.

• 2:00:41Speaker 06

  That is interesting. You're basically describing a Burger King Baconator without the patties and bacon.

• 2:00:47Speaker 05

  I've never had one of those, but I've made many grilled cheeses that have, uh, four or five layers of bread and cheese.

• 2:00:53Speaker 06

  Wendy's product, actually. Yeah, I don't know. The Burger King one was called like a stacker or something?

• 2:00:59Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, BK stacker.

• 2:01:00Speaker 06

  You could get, you could get a quad, get four patties. It was great. Sorry, I got us way off track.

• 2:01:05Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 2:01:07Steven Rinella?

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• 2:01:52Steven Rinella?

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• 2:01:57Steven Rinella?

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• 2:04:14Steven Rinella?

  Tell people what else they're dumb not to make this turkey season.

• 2:04:18Speaker 02

  I mean, you know, the heart, liver gizzard is good stuff. Of every, of all those delicious animals out there, some of the mildest, especially that liver. I love it.

• 2:04:27Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so what do you do with it?

• 2:04:28Speaker 02

  Uh, I mean, it's a simple pate, really nice.

• 2:04:30Steven Rinella?

  Walk me through it. Make it creative and approachable.

• 2:04:33Speaker 02

  Uh, you're gonna sear the liver till it's about medium.

• 2:04:37Steven Rinella?

  So, like I'm dumb, so.

• 2:04:39Speaker 02

  Okay, you're gonna put it on.

• 2:04:40Steven Rinella?

  I got a turkey, I got a turkey liver. Okay, and I do what?

• 2:04:43Speaker 02

  You're gonna, you're gonna season it with salt and pepper and you're gonna put it in a hot pan with some butter and you're gonna get a little brown on it.

• 2:04:50Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 2:04:50Speaker 02

  Um, and you're gonna cook it till it's not super firm, a little pink in, in there and you're gonna remove that. And then in a blender, you're gonna blend, and there's probably gonna be some sort of shallot or onions chopped up.

• 2:05:01Steven Rinella?

  So it'd be good to have your buddy's turkey liver too.

• 2:05:03Speaker 02

  It would be. It'll be helpful, yeah, yeah, if you've got a couple, it's gonna, it'll, it'll help.

• 2:05:08Steven Rinella?

  And it'd be also good if you got the gall sack off it.

• 2:05:11Speaker 02

  Do that, that little green thing, be cut around that.

• 2:05:13Steven Rinella?

  Get out of there.

• 2:05:13Speaker 02

  Get that out of there. Yeah, uh, and then that, you cool it off a little bit and that goes into a blender, uh, and you blend it uh, until it's a smooth paste and you're adding a little bit of cold butter, um, every couple of seconds till it kind of, it's smooth and it's incorporated. Check the seasoning, there's, you know, add some sort of booze in there, it's usually good, a little bit of, uh, brandy or applejack, something like that is usually nice, just a few drops of that. And then if you really wanna make it good, you're gonna, you're gonna pass that, you're gonna press it with the spatula through a little mesh bowl strainer. And that's gonna remove any of the sinews and, and, um, just the little stringy parts that are in a liver.

• 2:05:54Steven Rinella?

  That might be hiding in there.

• 2:05:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then that'll get it super smooth and then you just chill that and then you eat that with a little bit of warm, uh, toasted bread.

• 2:06:02Speaker 02

  So good.

• 2:06:03Steven Rinella?

  Okay, hit me with a gizzard, here I got a gizzard.

• 2:06:06Speaker 02

  The gizzard, uh, my favorite way to do the combos, what me and Cal cooked last time.

• 2:06:10Steven Rinella?

  Really?

• 2:06:11Speaker 02

  Sierra was the ragu, uh, where we, you know, grind the heart, liver, gizzard all together and then render out a little bit of bacon or pancetta till that's browned. And then you add that ground heart, liver, gizzard in there. Then you grind some carrot, onion, celery, put that in there and cook that down. Little tomato paste, little stock, and then hit that with pasta.

• 2:06:30Steven Rinella?

  That's fast.

• 2:06:31Speaker 02

  It's, it's, yeah, I mean, like less than an hour and you get these three really distinct textures. You know, we were talking about that, you know, the gizzard, you know, it's got a little strength to it. Uh, the, the liver smooths everything out and the heart's kind of in between. You get a little bit of, uh, I mean, I prefer pancetta, but I make a lot of it out of hog bellies.

• 2:06:49Steven Rinella?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:06:49Speaker 02

  Uh, but smoked bacon is delicious as well. A little bit of tomato paste and then, um, that just slow cooks and then you just cook some pasta, toss that in there, a ton of pecorino or Parmesan.

• 2:07:00Speaker 04

  Is that recipe in the turkey book?

• 2:07:02Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:07:02Speaker 04

  Darn right it is.

• 2:07:03Speaker 02

  It is.

• 2:07:03Speaker 04

  I took everybody's collective, uh, turkey oafle and made, made that in one big batch last year at the end of turkey season and then, uh, packaged that up for camp meals.

• 2:07:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:17Steven Rinella?

  That's cool.

• 2:07:18Speaker 02

  Me, me and Yanni, that's, that's on the menu.

• 2:07:20Speaker 04

  Oh, good.

• 2:07:21Speaker 02

  We're having.

• 2:07:22Steven Rinella?

  You want to know another one I stole from you that I try, I took one of your domestic meat recipes and, and converted it to a wild meat recipe. Is that at Dai Dui, you guys do that and I'll be still doing it. You got all those chicken hearts?

• 2:07:34Speaker 02

  Oh, the skewer.

• 2:07:35Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Which you're like, he's cooking chicken hearts in fat and then skewering them.

• 2:07:41Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:42Steven Rinella?

  And then putting them on a hot grill.

• 2:07:43Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:07:44Steven Rinella?

  So I take a, um, like a small little, um, I don't know how you even describe it, man. Like a, I don't know, man, like a really heavy sided, like imagine like a enamelled Dutch oven. It's like dinky.

• 2:08:00Speaker 02

  Mm hmm.

• 2:08:01Steven Rinella?

  You know, cause that way I'm not wasting so much of my fat.

• 2:08:05Speaker 02

  Right.

• 2:08:06Speaker 04

  A little crock.

• 2:08:06Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. I take like a little crock and just put all, a bunch of hearts in there and top it up. You could top it with olive oil if you needed to, but if you had like beef tallow or something, top it in there and just ever so like, turn your burner down about as low as you can get it and offset, offset it even. It's just like you're trying to do. You're trying to do like a confit, which is a super low heat, right? It's not, it's not bubbling like fry oil. It's like a little bit like now and it's like a little bloop.

• 2:08:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:37Steven Rinella?

  Bloop, bloop.

• 2:08:39Steven Rinella?

  Um, cause if you overdo it, it'll, they'll mush out on you. But do it like that and then I skewer them.

• 2:08:45Speaker 02

  How long does that take? The oil part?

• 2:08:47Steven Rinella?

  Oh, man, maybe I do them for an hour.

• 2:08:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:08:49Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:08:50Speaker 05

  It's like a little fun do.

• 2:08:51Steven Rinella?

  Duck, yeah, duck hearts, grouse hearts. Turkey hearts, you want to cut them up. They're pretty big.

• 2:08:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, probably half them.

• 2:09:01Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and then get a, have either a live fire or on a grill. And then I put, yeah, and I don't know if you do it, I can't remember if you do it, but I do, um, I put some cayenne powder on there. Some chili powder, something spicy.

• 2:09:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, hot honey would be really good.

• 2:09:16Steven Rinella?

  And then.

• 2:09:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:19Steven Rinella?

  That is good.

• 2:09:20Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:09:20Steven Rinella?

  My kids will walk by just eating those little things. They love them.

• 2:09:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, the chicken hearts at the restaurant is my daughter's favorite.

• 2:09:26Steven Rinella?

  You still serve that dish?

• 2:09:27Speaker 02

  Mm-hmm. Yeah. That's a good one. I mean, the confit technique is just so applicable to so many things, you know, just for, you know, getting a tender and then coming in on the grill afterwards. And just getting it cold and then putting it on the grill and just you've got that tender meat and then you're adding in that char and sear and smoke. It's, it works on a lot.

• 2:09:46Speaker 05

  O- oftentimes, uh, I limit myself with doing confit because I feel like the amount of, uh, oil or fat needed and, and the cost associated with that. So I've some, a few times I've done it in a bag, sous vide style. How do you feel about that?

• 2:10:01Speaker 02

  I feel like it, it, it just doesn't work as well. I, I get it though.

• 2:10:04Steven Rinella?

  I've done that too.

• 2:10:05Speaker 02

  I have a kind of unlimited source of it. I would say just try to match your, like he's saying, like match your, your cooking vessel to the, the quantity of meat and save as much of that fat as you can. And you can reuse the fat.

• 2:10:19Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's what I started doing more. I, I, I got a shelf above my thing. I got little glass jars full of various oils that have had various things happen to them. And everyone knows not to mess with them. They just get the new stuff, but I'll be like, oh, I remember that oil and I'll just use it for something.

• 2:10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:10:34Steven Rinella?

  You know?

• 2:10:35Speaker 02

  You can reuse it for confit. You might want to go in and get that, that liquid bottom part out of there. Uh, cause sometimes that can spoil. But if you've salted the meat pre- previously, usually there's enough salt in that layer that it'll keep it from going off. But, but if it's another reason you put it in like a glass jar or something tall sided, so you can see it, maybe scrape it out and get that part off the bottom.

• 2:10:58Steven Rinella?

  You know what the fur trapper Stu Miller does with his old fish fry oil?

• 2:11:02Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 2:11:02Steven Rinella?

  He saves his old fish fry oil, puts it in a squirt bottle and when he's setting a coon cuffs.

• 2:11:10Steven Rinella?

  And you get, let it dribble down the bank and get into the creek or whatever. Yep. Flings a craving on them.

• 2:11:19Steven Rinella?

  Fish fry grease.

• 2:11:20Speaker 02

  I've, I've had really good.

• 2:11:21Steven Rinella?

  It's like everything a raccoon could possibly want, right? It's like grease and fish.

• 2:11:26Speaker 03

  With hints of parsley in it or whatever.

• 2:11:29Speaker 04

  Really good luck with, with crane legs and goose legs in the, doing it the sous vide confit style. Yeah. And man, yeah, a lot of times it's like dealing with the big vat to do a bunch of legs. Like a meal for one person is pretty darn easy in the sous vide style.

• 2:11:48Speaker 02

  Yeah. Buddy of mine, uh, shows up at the tailgate with those. So after a long day of hunting, just pulls that out of the cooler cold, already done.

• 2:11:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:11:57Speaker 02

  And just cuts that back bag open and just hands out pheasant legs to people. So you're having a beer and a sous vide and a confit pheasant leg. And it's delicious.

• 2:12:07Steven Rinella?

  That's cool.

• 2:12:08Speaker 02

  It's awesome.

• 2:12:08Speaker 03

  Do any of you guys do it the Seth and Kelsey Morris way? Cause I know that they're, uh, pretty anti-plastic and I put myself into that camp too. Where I just, I don't know. I'm like heating plastic doesn't sound like food.

• 2:12:23Steven Rinella?

  Gets you to have sous vide in a silicon, in a silicon Ziploc. I don't know.

• 2:12:26Speaker 03

  I think, I think they pack a mason jar full and then put the mason jar.

• 2:12:32Steven Rinella?

  Seth's been reading up on that taint shrinkage. Yeah. He's gonna start a podcast called Taint Talk.

• 2:12:37Speaker 03

  It could be, maybe it's about that, but it's like, I don't know, my reasons are different. I don't care about that, but it's like.

• 2:12:45Steven Rinella?

  Uh, we're gonna try to get them sponsored by Tate Cookies. Taint Talk. Brought to you by Tates.

• 2:12:51Speaker 02

  I have a recipe in my first book where you take a teal and you put it in a, in a pint mason jar with some par cooked beans and sausage and bacon and then you put it in a water bath and cook it in the, in the jar. Like that, it's really good.

• 2:13:02Steven Rinella?

  Oh yeah, that's a good way to go. Let me hit you with another one. Yeah, why not? Just set it in a, set it in a, put your, put your fat and your meat in a glass jar and set the glass jar down in there.

• 2:13:12Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:13:13Steven Rinella?

  You'd take more fat again. Or use a silicon bag, silicon bag.

• 2:13:17Speaker 02

  Pack it in there pretty good.

• 2:13:18Steven Rinella?

  Let me hit, so you did, you did, uh, the guts. You, we covered, uh, skin, we covered the guts, we covered the legs. So you just throw the breasts out?

• 2:13:29Speaker 02

  Throw them out. I got a good one. On this, uh.

• 2:13:33Steven Rinella?

  You find Jesse's turkeys, everything's gone with the breasts later.

• 2:13:36Speaker 02

  Not true. That is, uh, that's my birthday meal. My birthday is mid-May and so it's like, it is turkey and dewberry cobbler every year. Fried turkey. Um, along the lines of sous vide, I think that, uh, I, this is how we cook our Thanksgiving turkey breasts.

• 2:13:52Steven Rinella?

  Wild turkey.

• 2:13:53Speaker 02

  Wild turkey.

• 2:13:54Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 2:13:54Speaker 02

  I put them, you know, we sous vide them, uh, all.

• 2:13:58Steven Rinella?

  But like I'm dumb, like.

• 2:13:59Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:00Steven Rinella?

  Tell me the whole thing.

• 2:14:00Speaker 02

  So you're gonna use what essentially would be poultry seasoning. So you're gonna have thyme and oregano, maybe some garlic, maybe some lemon, uh, rosemary, and then most importantly, a little bit of celery.

• 2:14:13Steven Rinella?

  I have a jar of your poultry seasoning.

• 2:14:14Speaker 02

  There you go.

• 2:14:15Steven Rinella?

  Dried or fresh, we're talking?

• 2:14:17Speaker 02

  Doesn't matter. You can use celery seed, a few celery leaves, just kind of get that in there. Um, and you can just change up your herbs as you want and then season your turkey breast as you want it and then put it in the bag and then. I might do that.

• 2:14:31Steven Rinella?

  You're taking too many shortcuts here. Is this in your book?

• 2:14:34Speaker 02

  It's a hundred percent in there.

• 2:14:35Steven Rinella?

  Okay, alright, go on. Go, go the way you go. I just want to make sure people can get it. But it's in the turkey book. It's in the turkey book. But still walk us through it.

• 2:14:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, and so.

• 2:14:42Steven Rinella?

  But if you're, if you're listening and you're like, what now?

• 2:14:44Speaker 02

  Take your turkey breast, season it with those delicious things, salt, pepper.

• 2:14:48Speaker 05

  You haven't sliced the turkey breast yet?

• 2:14:50Speaker 02

  No, it's a whole turkey breast.

• 2:14:52Speaker 05

  Got it.

• 2:14:52Speaker 02

  Uh, could be tender loin on if you want. I usually remove the tender loins.

• 2:14:56Speaker 05

  Yep.

• 2:14:56Speaker 02

  Um, but, uh, and I've, so I've got that whole, uh, turkey breast in there and then seal that up to three days before you're gonna cook it. And then just let it sit. And then all that seasoning will basically act as a brine. Um, and then I cook that in a water bath at a hundred and forty degrees for three hours on the nose. And it is phenomenal from end to end, perfectly cooked.

• 2:15:21Speaker 05

  And you didn't add any fat in there?

• 2:15:23Speaker 02

  Uh, no.

• 2:15:23Speaker 05

  No oil, no butter, no?

• 2:15:25Speaker 02

  Sometimes in late, the past Thanksgiving or two, I've gone and taken that and I, you can time it. You know, it's like everybody's getting here at twelve thirty, you know, like at, at nine.

• 2:15:36Steven Rinella?

  Oh, what, why are they coming at twelve thirty?

• 2:15:38Speaker 02

  That's how they do it. What, what, what do you mean?

• 2:15:41Steven Rinella?

  At night?

• 2:15:42Speaker 02

  No, PM. I mean, yeah.

• 2:15:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, afternoon.

• 2:15:45Steven Rinella?

  Thanksgiving.

• 2:15:46Speaker 05

  Lunchtime. Yeah. He, he just picked a random number.

• 2:15:49Steven Rinella?

  It was a little early, you mean?

• 2:15:50Speaker 05

  He can count back.

• 2:15:50Steven Rinella?

  Early hours.

• 2:15:52Speaker 02

  Well, anyway.

• 2:15:54Steven Rinella?

  Is that central time?

• 2:15:57Speaker 05

  You would think every one of those things Steve wouldn't have an opinion on.

• 2:16:00Speaker 02

  I know, I know.

• 2:16:02Steven Rinella?

  Although I love all this because I was, I had the same thing. Like I would in the end, I'd be like, well, you're supposed to put a bunch of butter in there, but not necessarily.

• 2:16:09Speaker 02

  You could if you wanted, but what I'm, what I'm getting to is, uh, I have in the past couple, uh, Thanksgivings, taken it out of the bag and then seared it in a lot of brown butter. Or just butter, uh, and just one side. And it just got a nice light sear on it. I actually don't want to cook it that much more. Like that one forty on, on turkey breast. It's just, it's so spot on.

• 2:16:29Steven Rinella?

  Three hours, one forty, wild turkey.

• 2:16:31Speaker 02

  Just super moist and then just slice it out, uh, you know, make some turkey stock gravy with giblets and so forth and then mashed potatoes.

• 2:16:40Steven Rinella?

  You mean giblets?

• 2:16:42Speaker 02

  Giblets.

• 2:16:43Steven Rinella?

  You call them giblets?

• 2:16:45Speaker 02

  I guess I do.

• 2:16:48Steven Rinella?

  What do you call them, Randall? Call them giblets.

• 2:16:51Speaker 02

  I think that's right. Now that I hear it out loud.

• 2:16:55Steven Rinella?

  Tinnitus. Yeah, we were talking about this yesterday.

• 2:17:00Speaker 06

  What was the word yesterday that we couldn't figure out?

• 2:17:04Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, and I told my favorite tinnitus story.

• 2:17:07Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 2:17:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, what was that? We'll never know. I guess we'll, I guess we'll never know.

• 2:17:14Speaker 05

  It's nice to hear a non cutlet, non fried turkey breast recipe that you're really high on.

• 2:17:21Speaker 02

  No offense to cutlets and turkey breasts.

• 2:17:22Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:23Speaker 02

  I mean, or fried turkey. I love fried turkey a lot.

• 2:17:27Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

• 2:17:29Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so we call, oh, you know what? Here, we left one off. Let's say you did your, so we got the guts, the skin. You said, let's say you pull off the tenders.

• 2:17:39Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 2:17:40Steven Rinella?

  Okay, hit me with, so now you've pulled your tenders off. Now hit me with the tenders.

• 2:17:44Speaker 02

  Uh, there's a, there's a cool visual trick. Actually, this didn't go in the book. I, I cut it out with a knife, but since now I, I, have you seen the fork trick? Where you hold, you know, there's that, there's that really thick sinew that runs down about half of the tenderloin. Grip that in your hand and put a fork behind it. Uh, just, and so that the two tines are around that sinew.

• 2:18:06Steven Rinella?

  So it's straddling the sinew?

• 2:18:08Speaker 02

  Yes, and then pull your hand back and push the fork forward and it just pulls that entire seam right out.

• 2:18:15Steven Rinella?

  Why is that not in the book?

• 2:18:16Speaker 02

  I, I came to it after, you know, we, we published that thing pretty quick. I mean, there's.

• 2:18:20Steven Rinella?

  That's a hot tip, man.

• 2:18:21Speaker 02

  No, it's good. It's really cool. And it gets that seam out of the tenderloin and then you throw that in your stock.

• 2:18:28Speaker 02

  I would grill tenderloins. You can kind of weave them onto a skewer. Uh, to kind of give them more, get them more even. Yeah, I would say that or, or fried. That's, I mean, not, not, not too creative with that.

• 2:18:42Steven Rinella?

  Okay, we missing anything? We missing any parts of the turkey?

• 2:18:44Speaker 05

  Well, I think, I think you should just walk us very quickly through, just like you take those tenderloins, basic turkey nuggets.

• 2:18:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I brine them. Uh, and then, uh, brine a little bit of buttermilk so that you get a really good adhesion.

• 2:18:58Speaker 05

  So wet brine?

• 2:19:00Speaker 02

  Yep, yep, can be simple. I mean, that's, you know, could just be salt and water. Maybe add pickle juice in there if you like.

• 2:19:06Steven Rinella?

  Aren't you gonna correct them about how it drives you crazy when people say that?

• 2:19:09Speaker 02

  Oh, dry brine? You remember? Yeah, it's fine.

• 2:19:14Steven Rinella?

  You're not a fighter, are you?

• 2:19:17Steven Rinella?

  He maybe is the kind of guy that forgets his pet peeves.

• 2:19:19Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, that's funny. Um. And then a little bit of buttermilk, uh, or yogurt, whatever, just some kind of thick dairy. And then, uh, and then it goes into the seasoned flour, which is going to be, uh, most importantly, again, it's going to contain celery seed. Like out of all, all those spices, I think celery is the celery and black pepper are kind of the most important things.

• 2:19:41Steven Rinella?

  For a turkey.

• 2:19:43Speaker 02

  For poultry in general. That's going to, that gives you that KFC, you're like, oh, that's what that was. It's always that celery seed.

• 2:19:50Speaker 05

  What's the key to getting it really like, uh, that thick?

• 2:19:55Speaker 05

  Uh, you know, batter on there. Cause like, I, I feel like I'm in there and it's all buttermilky. And then do I put them all in my basket first and drop it all at once? Are you going straight out of that buttermilk and dropping it?

• 2:20:09Speaker 02

  Let them sit, let them sit in the refrigerator for 20, 30 minutes, hour or two, doesn't matter. You let them sit also as your, you've got your, your, your dredge, your flour and maybe a little buttermilk, maybe drizzle a little bit so you get these little beads in there. And then what that's going to do, when that adheres, you're not just going to have a thin layer of flour on there, but you're also going to have these little beads of like buttermilky flour. So they're going to give you a little more of those like crackling textures.

• 2:20:35Speaker 05

  Oh.

• 2:20:36Speaker 02

  Uh, little drizzle of that in there, uh, bread them up really well. And then just set them in the refrigerator, get them cold in like 20 minutes. And then when that.

• 2:20:44Steven Rinella?

  But what about when it gets kind of doughy? You don't mind that?

• 2:20:47Speaker 02

  Uh, no, it's going to be fine.

• 2:20:49Steven Rinella?

  You don't mind it getting a little doughy?

• 2:20:50Speaker 02

  No, I don't mind.

• 2:20:51Steven Rinella?

  You know what my kid's been doing? He just makes a god awful mess, the way he does it. But he cuts the turkey breasts and makes little, a bunch of little tenders. And then he just keeps doing it. Dredge flour.

• 2:21:06Speaker 02

  Oh.

• 2:21:06Steven Rinella?

  Dredge flour, cause he's looking to try to build up like a long John Silver's layer.

• 2:21:11Speaker 02

  I feel like you're going to get some like doughiness on.

• 2:21:14Steven Rinella?

  Dude, and then he drops them in the deep fryer and dude, that oil is so full of just all that garbage, man.

• 2:21:22Speaker 02

  I think one round.

• 2:21:23Steven Rinella?

  And then he eats it and walks away.

• 2:21:29Speaker 02

  I would go, I would go one round on the, on the dredge.

• 2:21:32Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, he learned it on the internet.

• 2:21:34Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 2:21:35Speaker 04

  Oh, that's awesome. I'm hungry.

• 2:21:38Steven Rinella?

  Okay, man, the turkey book, the hog book, what's next?

• 2:21:44Speaker 02

  I don't know. I, I mean, I say that in all honesty, I'm batting around some ideas and everybody likes to pontificate on what.

• 2:21:50Steven Rinella?

  You know, that would be obvious.

• 2:21:53Steven Rinella?

  The deer book?

• 2:21:54Speaker 02

  Deer book, right. That would be always. I get a lot of requests for all that, but I don't think there's a book worth.

• 2:22:00Steven Rinella?

  I, I, I wouldn't be worried about there being a, with you, you'll find a book worth, but I feel like you might not find the audience.

• 2:22:06Speaker 02

  Right. Yeah. The, the marketability of that would be, um, more very, very specific.

• 2:22:12Speaker 04

  Dude, I feel like, yeah, but if you keep going, like the way you're doing it, people are going to be like, I need the series.

• 2:22:18Speaker 02

  Yeah. Oh, right, right.

• 2:22:20Speaker 04

  They're beautiful and it's like hog, turkey, deer.

• 2:22:23Steven Rinella?

  Or you could do the fish book.

• 2:22:24Speaker 04

  Bowhead whale.

• 2:22:25Speaker 02

  I like fish a lot.

• 2:22:27Steven Rinella?

  The bowhead whale book, yeah. The fish book, you'd probably want, yeah.

• 2:22:32Steven Rinella?

  Like for, I don't know. I mean, you have, you have a great sense of what to do. Like you know hogs in and out. There's a lot of misinformation about hogs. It's a great book. Turkey book, you got a lot of experience. I mean, you have a ton of venison experience. There's a ton of interest. It's America's deer. People are hunting them from top to bottom, side to side. The deer book.

• 2:22:50Speaker 02

  It's true. I will say it's the front runner, but I want to be non-committal in this.

• 2:22:55Steven Rinella?

  Cause you could be cute and be like the squirrel book, but that's just cute.

• 2:22:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:22:59Steven Rinella?

  You're just being cute, you know?

• 2:23:00Speaker 04

  And a little too niche.

• 2:23:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:23:02Speaker 04

  Well, yeah, you'd be squirrel, but it's like representative of the rodent book, right? You do like beavers, muskrats.

• 2:23:09Steven Rinella?

  The beaver book.

• 2:23:10Speaker 04

  Nutria. Yep. People would love it. Um, I, I got something Jesse and I are doing.

• 2:23:16Steven Rinella?

  Please tell me about it.

• 2:23:17Speaker 04

  This will be super fun. Uh, uh, buddy of mine, Eric Johansson out in, in South Dakota, he's, he wouldn't like me saying this, but he's kind of like a poster child for, it'd be like quote unquote progressive farming practices these days. So, um, real heavy on, um,

• 2:23:37Speaker 04

  You know easements for wetlands and native grasses and and stuff like that, right? But which in turn happens to be like really, really good for wildlife. So he's got on the family farm out there. He's got just an unbelievable wild pheasant hunting situation and lodging and and stuff. And and he's a big believer, as am I, in like the habitat work of pheasants forever. So we and in Jesse included here have come together to we're going to do a hunt. That we're auctioning off at Pheasant Fest this year.

• 2:24:17Steven Rinella?

  Oh, fun.

• 2:24:18Speaker 04

  Fundraiser for Habitat. And yeah, so we're gonna.

• 2:24:22Steven Rinella?

  So the the fundraise money goes to where?

• 2:24:25Speaker 04

  To Pheasants Forever.

• 2:24:26Steven Rinella?

  In the quad, the and then the and you're going to hunt this property that is a demonstration of?

• 2:24:32Speaker 04

  A lot of really good practices. Yep.

• 2:24:35Steven Rinella?

  And you two both gonna hunt?

• 2:24:36Speaker 04

  Yeah, we're we're both gonna hunt. Eric's gonna hunt. I'm bringing Snort out there. Eric has um one of Snort's cousins too, so that's fun and and super cute, obviously. Uh, but it.

• 2:24:51Steven Rinella?

  How many days does the winner get to hunt?

• 2:24:52Speaker 04

  It's I think it's three days, a hunt for two people. Uh, Jesse's gonna be, you know, leading the cooking, but I've been emphatic about the fact that he's not shackled with cooking. I'm there to help as much as possible um as allowed, so I can learn stuff too. And then, yeah, we're gonna hunt, lodging. And you just got to get get your butt there, but it is a really, really incredible. I've I've been lucky enough to go out there and hunt with Eric a couple of times. And he always says, um, your dog's invited.

• 2:25:28Speaker 04

  If you would like to come, that's okay.

• 2:25:30Steven Rinella?

  What's up with the thousand dollar? I'm seeing a note about a thousand dollar gift card.

• 2:25:33Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:25:34Steven Rinella?

  Is that not related or related?

• 2:25:35Speaker 04

  No, that's related. So then, uh, first light, we're throwing in a thousand dollar gift card. So if

• 2:25:40Steven Rinella?

  To the winners.

• 2:25:41Speaker 04

  To the winners. Yep. So five hundred a piece to get, get decked out, just to grease, grease the wheels a little bit and, and I'm gonna be available to help you with, uh, getting outfitted in your upland stuff from first light. So.

• 2:25:55Steven Rinella?

  Thanks, guys. That'll be fun.

• 2:25:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've already started, uh, uh, we shot a few pheasants this year and I already started playing with the menu.

• 2:26:02Speaker 04

  Nice.

• 2:26:02Speaker 02

  I love pheasant.

• 2:26:03Speaker 04

  Yeah. Pheasant dies.

• 2:26:05Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 2:26:06Speaker 04

  Oh.

• 2:26:06Steven Rinella?

  What about the game bird book?

• 2:26:08Speaker 02

  Could be. I love poultry a lot. So.

• 2:26:11Steven Rinella?

  Game bird book?

• 2:26:12Speaker 06

  You wouldn't just go with bird book?

• 2:26:13Steven Rinella?

  The bird book?

• 2:26:14Speaker 02

  Yeah. An economy of dialogue.

• 2:26:16Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Big bird book.

• 2:26:20Steven Rinella?

  Dude, do the deer book, cause I want that book.

• 2:26:23Speaker 02

  People are gonna be like blowing me up right now. When are you gonna write the deer book?

• 2:26:26Speaker 04

  Well, hopefully you have all these names already locked down somewhere in the.

• 2:26:30Steven Rinella?

  I would cook that book from front to back if you did it.

• 2:26:32Speaker 02

  Yeah, right?

• 2:26:36Steven Rinella?

  Remember that movie where that gal, uh?

• 2:26:39Speaker 04

  Julia, Julia?

• 2:26:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:26:40Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:26:41Speaker 02

  Oh, right, right, right.

• 2:26:43Steven Rinella?

  I do a book called Steve and Jesse. Do you know that movie? Steve and Jesse where I cook all this stuff.

• 2:26:47Speaker 04

  Who are the actors? Amy Adams and Meryl Streep.

• 2:26:52Speaker 02

  Kevin Bacon and Paul Giamatti.

• 2:26:54Steven Rinella?

  Bam! Kevin Bacon, Paul Giamatti, dude. That's it. Yeah, man.

• 2:27:00Speaker 02

  Unreal. All right.

• 2:27:02Steven Rinella?

  Beautiful. Or, um, I also get, uh, the jackass guy.

• 2:27:07Speaker 04

  Oh, uh, Stevo.

• 2:27:08Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 2:27:09Speaker 04

  Johnny Knoxville.

• 2:27:10Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah. I've checked in lately though. I don't, I'm, I don't know if I'm older and he is some kind of.

• 2:27:14Speaker 04

  No, he's way gray. He's grayed out.

• 2:27:16Steven Rinella?

  I don't know if I'm passing.

• 2:27:17Speaker 06

  Hard years on those boys.

• 2:27:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 2:27:21Steven Rinella?

  Thanks for coming on, man.

• 2:27:21Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks for having me.

• 2:27:23Steven Rinella?

  Hog book, turkey book, deer book.

• 2:27:26Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:26Steven Rinella?

  Get two of them now.

• 2:27:30Steven Rinella?

  Are you gonna bundle them?

• 2:27:32Speaker 02

  Uh.

• 2:27:32Steven Rinella?

  When the deer book comes out.

• 2:27:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:27:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you should.

• 2:27:35Speaker 02

  The trilogy.

• 2:27:35Steven Rinella?

  You should maybe, do you have, you should maybe do a version where you can just get them in a little box. So like the pair.

• 2:27:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, we'll wait until that third one comes.

• 2:27:42Steven Rinella?

  Oh, then you do a box set. Good luck, man.

• 2:27:45Speaker 02

  Thanks.

• 2:27:45Steven Rinella?

  When you go to Austin, Texas, and everybody eventually finds themselves in Austin, Texas. Um, go to Di Duwe. Unbelievable dining experience, man.

• 2:27:56Speaker 03

  Again, what is?

• 2:27:56Steven Rinella?

  It's unbelievable.

• 2:27:57Speaker 03

  What does Di Duwe mean?

• 2:27:59Speaker 02

  Uh, it literally means from the two. It's part of an Italian phrase. It means from the two kingdoms of nature, choose food with care.

• 2:28:05Speaker 03

  I love that.

• 2:28:06Steven Rinella?

  You know, so funny, we took an Uber when we left. Guy's like, how do you say that?

• 2:28:13Steven Rinella?

  I'm like, you should go on and ask the owner.

• 2:28:17Steven Rinella?

  I was like, it's Di Duwe. Yeah, Di Duwe, unbelievable dining experience.

• 2:28:21Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 2:28:21Steven Rinella?

  And not stuffy, man.

• 2:28:24Speaker 02

  No.

• 2:28:25Steven Rinella?

  Not stuffy.

• 2:28:26Speaker 02

  It's meant to be a neighborhood restaurant.

• 2:28:28Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And the waiters and waitresses, the waitress, they don't act weird. The waitstaff doesn't act weird. They don't like whisper and sit with you.

• 2:28:37Steven Rinella?

  Start telling you a bunch of shit you don't wanna hear. It's just like, it's just a great dining experience, man.

• 2:28:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, they are the backbone of it.

• 2:28:45Steven Rinella?

  Well, what I have tonight? They don't, it's like they don't do all that garbage.

• 2:28:48Speaker 02

  My friends.

• 2:28:49Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:28:50Speaker 02

  It's a delightful little dish.

• 2:28:51Steven Rinella?

  Well, tonight I have from my friends at the winery. Yeah, it's like, oh my God. They don't do anything. This is cool. They're cool. They come up and take your order and talk to you.

• 2:29:02Speaker 02

  Try it.

• 2:29:04Steven Rinella?

  Like you're a person in a restaurant.

• 2:29:09Steven Rinella?

  Not like you're in like a online, like call for company, uh, one eight hundred number or something.

• 2:29:16Steven Rinella?

  It's a great, it is a great restaurant.

• 2:29:18Speaker 02

  Good. Yep, I like it. I like eating there.

• 2:29:22Steven Rinella?

  And if you see Jesse eating in there, come up and be like, dude, shouldn't you be working?

• 2:29:28Steven Rinella?

  You lazy ass.

• 2:29:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 2:29:29Steven Rinella?

  All right, thanks, man. Appreciate it.

• 2:29:31Speaker 02

  Thank you. Thanks, Jesse.

• 2:29:32Steven Rinella?

  Thanks, y'all.

• 2:29:59Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you one thing that binds together all of the vehicles in the Rinella fleet at my house, they all have WeatherTech floor liners. When we get a new car, the first thing we do, out with the junky factory carpet mats, in with WeatherTech. They really are the best. They're indestructible. You can pull them out, hose them off. It doesn't matter what happens on the floor of your rig. If you've got WeatherTech, you're going to be covered. I love these things. If you're looking to get a great gift for someone, especially if they're a big time outdoors kind of person, like if you really want to do them a favor, get them some WeatherTech floor liners for their truck or car. They'll have a way easier time keeping their rig nice and clean, and they'll get years and

• 2:30:42Steven Rinella?

  years of use out of a set. Visit weathertech.com for your holiday shopping today. The new Dual Threat Pro SD climber is the ultimate companion for both bow and rifle hunters, thanks to its adjustable dual threat front bar. This innovative feature allows you to tailor the climber based on your preferred hunting method. So you can choose between two climbing modes and two hunting modes. So I like having something that's got this level of versatility. Get 20% off all tree stands by using the code MEATEATER at summitstands.com. That's a phenomenal deal. That's summitstands.com.

• 2:31:20Speaker 00

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• 2:32:20Speaker 03

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed human.