#1 Speaking Expert: How to Sound Confident (Even When You Don't Feel It)

Today, I'm joined by communication expert and bestselling author Vinh Giang for a conversation about the power of your voice. We break down how to sound confident even when you're nervous, use your tone to build trust, stop letting shyness hold you back, and become someone people actually want to listen to. Vinh also shares his personal journey from being afraid to speak up to teaching millions how to communicate with confidence. Whether you're speaking at work, having a difficult conversation, or trying to connect with the people you love, this episode will change the way you think about your voice. Buy Vinh’s book, Before We Forget How To Connect - https://vinhgiang.com/before-we-forget-how-to-connect Join me on Supercast for ad-free episodes, bonus content, and AMAs: https://jefferson.supercast.com/ Leave me a voicemail to be featured on the show! https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/ask-jefferson Order The Next Conversation Workbook: https://www.jeffersonfisher.com/workbook Thank you to our sponsors: Our Place. Visit https://fromourplace.com/JEFFERSON and use code JEFFERSON for 10% off sitewide. Athena: Go to https://athenacom/jefferson and hire a top tier EA. BetterHelp. Click https://betterhelp.com/jeffersonfisher for a discount on your first month of therapy. Order my book, The Next Conversation, or listen to the full audiobook today. Like what you hear? Don’t forget to subscribe and leave a 5-star review! Suggest a topic or ask a question for me to answer on the show! Want a FREE communication tip each week? Click here to join my newsletter. Join My School of Communication Watch my podcast on YouTube Follow me on Instagram Follow me on TikTok Follow me on LinkedIn Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Man, thanks for coming.

• 0:00Speaker 01

  Hey, thank you so much for having me. It's so cool to be able to connect with you in person.

• 0:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  And have you make coffee for us?

• 0:05Jefferson Fisher?

  That's true. I did.

• 0:07Speaker 01

  Oh, it's one of the best coffees I've had here.

• 0:09Jefferson Fisher?

  That's good. I appreciate that. I um, I I very much value here in the Fisher household. Uh, how we make profit coffee because when we were in Australia in July. Australia just absolutely ruined us with coffee. Us coffee is different.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  It's it better.

• 0:27Jefferson Fisher?

  It's so much better.

• 0:29Jefferson Fisher?

  That's the word I'm looking for. Improved. I don't know what y'all did. Um, I would say that's probably one. That to me was was a highlight was the coffee. So how's it been in the US, man?

• 0:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, man, it's been it's been awesome. I've got my whole team with me and we've been eating all the different foods. We were just in Austin yesterday.

• 0:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, good.

• 0:49Speaker 01

  We had Terry Blacks.

• 0:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 0:51Speaker 01

  We had the Texan barbecue. Oh, man.

• 0:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Like where you fail at coffee.

• 0:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 0:56Speaker 01

  You just redeem yourself with incredible Texan barbecue.

• 0:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You have coffee, I raise you Texan.

• 1:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And then you win.

• 1:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:06Speaker 01

  Cause I choose Texan barbecue over coffee.

• 1:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, for those watching, listening, Vin has about twenty dudes uh in here.

• 1:15Speaker 01

  The funny thing is Jefferson's incredible with what to say, but I think Jefferson can't count.

• 1:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Because there's only six of them.

• 1:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. There's six. I do every time I'm like.

• 1:25Speaker 01

  He's just raising the number.

• 1:26Jefferson Fisher?

  He's got thirty six guys in here. Right, yeah.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  It's because they're really loud.

• 1:30Jefferson Fisher?

  I love that you get to bring uh your team and have a good group around you, man. It's hard.

• 1:35Speaker 01

  Well, because I think one of the biggest things I really value is I really value connection.

• 1:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:40Speaker 01

  Our connection is such a big part of what I value as a human being and and having them just enhances the entire experience.

• 1:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:47Speaker 01

  Having my tip because then after we finish a podcast, then we get to share in the the joys of it. Oh, I shouldn't have said this. I went wrong here.

• 1:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:56Speaker 01

  But I just have people to connect with afterwards. It means a lot to me.

• 1:59Jefferson Fisher?

  And they get to roast you. That's what.

• 2:01Speaker 01

  That's basically what I meant by that. And you saw straight through it. You saw a straight through it.

• 2:05Jefferson Fisher?

  By connect, I mean they just roast me.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  Definitely roasted you and I.

• 2:09Jefferson Fisher?

  They have.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  Before we even started the podcast.

• 2:11Jefferson Fisher?

  They uh, they really have. I um, you you and I have known each other for. I would say probably at least two years, at least.

• 2:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, through social media, spoke on the phone several times.

• 2:24Speaker 01

  You scared me about the whole book experience. I remember talking to you when I was starting my journey.

• 2:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 2:29Speaker 01

  You were saying, hey, listen, you gotta talk to your wife.

• 2:31Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 2:31Speaker 01

  You gotta prepare her for what's coming.

• 2:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  And I just remember thinking, wow, this sounds really dramatic. I thought he's just writing a book, man. But it was that.

• 2:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was.

• 2:40Jefferson Fisher?

  I tried.

• 2:41Speaker 01

  All of that and more.

• 2:42Jefferson Fisher?

  I tried to, you know, to warn you of like, man, when you go into this, it's a different. You go, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, that can, sure, I can write a book. Yeah, yeah. And then you actually get into it and then it's just.

• 2:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:52Jefferson Fisher?

  It's it's uh, it's rough. But man, I can tell you from having been in Australia and now you. And you, I know you've been to the US several times. Now I feel like this shared, I don't know if I get like an unofficial license to. Just coming and out of Australia now. I feel like I'm part of Australia, having been and and met so many Australians.

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Uh, look, you just have to, all you gotta do now is use a couple of our slangs.

• 3:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  In this podcast.

• 3:18Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 3:19Speaker 01

  And you're in.

• 3:20Jefferson Fisher?

  And then I'm in.

• 3:20Speaker 01

  And then I'm in. I'll show it to our prime minister and you're in. We'll show it to Albo and then you're in. But you've got to use at least three.

• 3:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay, got it. Okay. So it uh, throughout this episode.

• 3:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 3:31Jefferson Fisher?

  I will make sure and use, we're gonna sneak in at least three.

• 3:34Speaker 01

  Three Australian slang.

• 3:35Jefferson Fisher?

  That I've picked up on.

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Beautiful.

• 3:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Throughout it. Yeah, I'm gonna, this is gonna be.

• 3:39Speaker 01

  This is a communication challenge for Jefferson.

• 3:41Jefferson Fisher?

  This is gonna be, yeah, that's exactly right. Um, now, how old are your kids?

• 3:46Speaker 01

  My kids are, Melody is two and a half and Xander's nine. So I've got two.

• 3:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Two and a half and nine.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 3:55Speaker 01

  And the in-between gap is a very long IVF journey.

• 3:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Gotcha.

• 3:58Speaker 01

  So that's kind of why it took so long.

• 4:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 4:00Speaker 01

  We wanted them close, but yeah, it was it was a journey and a half, man.

• 4:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, I can only, I can only imagine. Oh, that's beautiful, dude.

• 4:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Um.

• 4:07Speaker 01

  How about yours?

• 4:08Jefferson Fisher?

  So mine, my Jet is eight and Ruby is six.

• 4:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 4:13Jefferson Fisher?

  And so that is, they're just the Bash Brothers, man. They're just a wrecking crew.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Bash Brothers?

• 4:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Why you?

• 4:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  Well, because. Do they fight?

• 4:22Jefferson Fisher?

  No, they just, they they, when they come into a room, like they make sure everybody knows they're there. They're in in the best way, in the best way. They're just, they're lovely and great and just like yours, um, so unique in in different ways. Is your son, like, has he picked up on this whole journey?

• 4:40Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, well, my my son, he doesn't think I'm cool at all. Your kids don't think you're cool either? Okay, that's a hard, that's a normal thing.

• 4:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  And it's just, it's fascinating because it's it's kind of normal to him.

• 4:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 4:52Speaker 01

  His dad's just dad.

• 4:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 4:54Speaker 01

  So my whole journey is just, is just, that's just dad.

• 4:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  He he said to his teacher, because during the COVID period, I did a lot of virtual things.

• 5:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  And to my son, he described it as dad dances in the garage in front of cameras for money.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  I'm like.

• 5:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 5:13Speaker 01

  That sounds like, that's not what I do.

• 5:16Jefferson Fisher?

  That's not, yeah.

• 5:16Speaker 01

  That's not, I I teach communication.

• 5:18Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  So it was, it was a very awkward first parent teacher interview.

• 5:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  When I came in, I'm like, hey, so Xander says you.

• 5:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 5:24Speaker 01

  You move for money.

• 5:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. How's the dancing? How's the dancing life going?

• 5:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, and I had to describe that. Now I teach public speaking.

• 5:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, and very similar.

• 5:33Speaker 01

  Which, but it seemed like I was lying.

• 5:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Very, very similar.

• 5:36Speaker 01

  I'm sure they were, yeah, sure, Vin, thank you.

• 5:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, sure you do.

• 5:38Jefferson Fisher?

  And your daughter's name, Melody, that was.

• 5:41Speaker 01

  That was a, that was a branding decision.

• 5:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, okay.

• 5:46Speaker 01

  That was a branding decision.

• 5:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, what should we, what should we?

• 5:48Speaker 01

  The next one will be called body language.

• 5:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Right. I want to talk real quick on um.

• 5:52Speaker 01

  Did you just tap my toes?

• 5:53Jefferson Fisher?

  That was an accident.

• 5:54Speaker 01

  Oh, okay, okay. I was like.

• 5:55Jefferson Fisher?

  That was the way I connect.

• 5:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's different.

• 5:57Jefferson Fisher?

  No, that was.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Cause he, he just, he just did that.

• 5:59Jefferson Fisher?

  It was a light one. I agree with, no, that was, that was an accident.

• 6:02Speaker 01

  Mine was a bit strong.

• 6:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Maybe I wish it wasn't. Um, no.

• 6:07Jefferson Fisher?

  This is how this is gonna be from here on out.

• 6:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, I do want to talk real quick on kids.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 6:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Because there are people who.

• 6:14Speaker 01

  That's beautiful.

• 6:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Are trying to say, hey, how can we teach these communication concepts?

• 6:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:20Jefferson Fisher?

  That we talk about to our children. What do you and your wife do to ensure that your kids are set up to be good communicators?

• 6:28Speaker 01

  The first one for us is playfulness, especially as I watch my son get older. You you notice that they start to become less and less and less playful. They want to be cooler. And as they want to be cooler, you notice they start using their voice very differently. They they lose a lot of the notes. And then I see that in my adult students who come to me. I notice, wow, gosh, your your range is so limited now. Whereas I see it in my daughter, who's two and a half, she's got full access to her range. Expressive with her body, she is totally convinced she is Elsa from Frozen right now.

• 7:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 7:00Speaker 01

  And that's cool, cause I'm I'm.

• 7:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Every daughter is, yeah.

• 7:02Speaker 01

  And I'm I'm leaning into it. I'm like, you are.

• 7:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 7:05Speaker 01

  You are awesome.

• 7:06Jefferson Fisher?

  You didn't do it.

• 7:06Speaker 01

  Right? Yeah, absolutely. We get into it.

• 7:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  So one of the things we do is we play. We continue to play with them. We continue to be silly with them. And I think as a dad, I had to learn that too. Because I I used to be playful with my students in class because they've completely forgotten how to be playful. But then I see my kids being silly and I think, oh, no, no, I need to teach them to be more mature. And I have to be more like mature around them, completely mature.

• 7:31Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 7:31Speaker 01

  More in control. But then I I said to my wife, I don't think that's the way because naturally, society and school and their desire to fit in. Will cause them to lose so many of their notes. They'll start to express themselves less and less and less. And I'm already seeing that in my boy who's turning nine, right? I'm already seeing that and I'm thinking, ah, so we're trying to encourage them to be more playful, to be more expressive. Yeah, to share more stories.

• 7:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 7:59Speaker 01

  Whereas I I catch myself often early in my journey as a dad to go, hey, hey, hey, you're saying too much.

• 8:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Saying too much at the table.

• 8:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 8:07Speaker 01

  You know, and I I just think to myself, oh, man, what am I doing? I'm telling him to say less.

• 8:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 8:13Speaker 01

  Whereas I find that a lot of my students come to me because they they're invisible. They don't say anything at all. So I think there there's a lot of encouragement to be playful. There's, and and it requires you to be playful.

• 8:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, definitely. Is there anything practical that like you go, hey, this is what we try to. I I hear you saying, hey, we, I want to make sure that my son, when he shares a story.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 8:34Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm not gonna cut him off. I want to, like, um, what you might say here in the USA, somebody's being a ham.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  Hmm, a ham?

• 8:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, that's what we say. Yeah, this, it's a whole thing. I, why? I don't know why.

• 8:45Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:46Jefferson Fisher?

  But it's somebody, a a child who is being extra playful, who's kind of being a showman.

• 8:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 8:52Jefferson Fisher?

  And wanting to be, yeah, yeah, yeah, likes, likes being on camera and and being silly, that kind of thing.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Okay. Well, well, to give you context too, so Melody's only two and a half. Xander, he's he's nine, right? However, my son's on the spectrum. So Xander's autistic. So for us, the practical things we do with Xander may be very different to someone who has a neurotypical child.

• 9:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 9:16Speaker 01

  So for us with Xander, we, and he loves this, and that's why we do it, is he loves reenacting things. So one of the things we do to play with Xander is he's got a favorite show. And to connect with him and to keep him playful, we're like, hey, let's let's reenact a scene from Mufasa, from from Lion King. And unfortunately, he does love the one where Scar swipes Mufasa and says, no. I'm like, that's a really dramatic scene, so.

• 9:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah. I actually fast forward that, but yeah.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, so we, so we reenact that.

• 9:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  But he loves that. So a huge part of the playfulness comes down to that. So that's one component we do with him. And I know this may not be applicable for everybody.

• 9:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, sure.

• 9:54Speaker 01

  Replay your favorite scenes, whatever it may be. And then a second thing we do is he loves to, his his dream is to build a zoo. So for us, like leaning into the things that he really loves and then actually acting it out, playing it, building it out with him. Becoming the animals. So it's, it's very different with Xander, whereas Melody is a very neurotypical child.

• 10:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 10:17Speaker 01

  So for her, it's very different again.

• 10:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 10:20Speaker 01

  You know, but but she's only just starting to grasp her words and learn her words. So we're still building that out with Melody. But with Xander, it's, it's been a very different journey.

• 10:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  You know, things that you could do with other kids.

• 10:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Sure.

• 10:33Speaker 01

  We couldn't do with Xander.

• 10:35Jefferson Fisher?

  How do you and your wife communicate? Or let me just ask this as a general question. How can a parent communicate better if they have a? No, I want to ask the question of specifically somebody who's a a child who's neurodivergent.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 10:53Jefferson Fisher?

  How can a parent better communicate if their child is neurodivergent?

• 10:58Speaker 01

  Okay. I'll give you an example. So for my son, eye contact didn't come naturally.

• 11:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Eye contact?

• 11:06Speaker 01

  Eye contact.

• 11:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Really difficult for a lot of kids on the spectrum. And the spectrum is so broad, right? So again, even when we speak about this, it's so different, family to family, child to child. But for a lot of neurodiverse kids, eye contact is really difficult. So when we tried to get eye contact with Xander, one of my mistakes I made very early on was trying to bring him into my world. I love camping, love making fires, love working on my camper van. I love that stuff. And I wanted him to join me in my world.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Never happened. He loves animals. He doesn't love that. No eye contact, nothing, right? And then the strangest thing happened with my son was when I started meeting him in his world. So I'm, I'm not, I'm not, I don't love going to the zoo seventy-three times a year, right?

• 11:52Jefferson Fisher?

  But he does.

• 11:53Speaker 01

  But I do now, but he does, but I do now.

• 11:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 11:55Speaker 01

  So we just went to Japan. We just went to Japan four weeks ago. We went to the zoo out of thirteen days that were there, ten times.

• 12:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 12:03Speaker 01

  Same zoo. Right? My wife's like, hey, you go now. I'm not going anymore, but you go. And I'm like, hey, I'm gonna go.

• 12:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 12:10Speaker 01

  Because ultimately, what helped me connect with Xander was me as a father realizing, if I want him to meet me in my world, I have to build the bridge to him and meet him in his first. And Jefferson, I did that for years. And I remember after, you know, I know everything about alpacas now and all the animals that he loves, lions and giraffes and hippopotamuses. And now that I know that,

• 12:35Speaker 01

  he gave me eye contact naturally. So through me building that bridge to his world, having a shared interest with him, that's what got me eye contact with my son. Beyond all these techniques that you can learn from different therapists and everything. It was me showing deep interest, almost obsessive interest and matching him in that.

• 12:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 12:58Speaker 01

  Was I now able to reach through to him? And this year was the first year he, like finally, the first year he joined us for a caravan trip. And was willing to go.

• 13:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 13:08Speaker 01

  And was willing to go.

• 13:09Jefferson Fisher?

  How'd it go?

• 13:10Speaker 01

  Amazing. It was this incredible trip. We did the Great Ocean Road that you did.

• 13:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, yes, yeah.

• 13:14Speaker 01

  We did all of that. And obviously had to stop at all the wildlife parks on the way.

• 13:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 13:18Speaker 01

  But it was amazing because he never would have been willing to do that. And, and again, it took years. So I think the, the, the most pragmatic thing is meet them in their world.

• 13:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 13:28Speaker 01

  Be interested in the things they're interested in and, and go all in with that as opposed to lightly doing it. Right? It's like with my daughter now. It's, it's frozen. Okay, let's learn the lyrics. Let's learn the dance move. Let's go. You know, I'm not going to the, I'm not wearing a dress.

• 13:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 13:44Speaker 01

  But, but I'm close to. I'm considering it now. I'm at the phase where I'm considering it now.

• 13:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 13:48Speaker 01

  Right? But it's, I think it's one of the most powerful ways to be able to, to build that connection and, and they'll reciprocate.

• 13:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 13:56Speaker 01

  But it takes time.

• 13:57Jefferson Fisher?

  That's beautiful. I heard once, um, you know, when your kids are doing things that you don't get, like they get older and I don't know, it could be, uh, who knows, whatever the new age thing is, uh, whatever video game or it's Pokemon or it's like, you're just like, I don't get it.

• 14:17Speaker 01

  You, you don't get Pokemon?

• 14:18Jefferson Fisher?

  I, I, I didn't get it in Texas.

• 14:20Speaker 01

  That's crazy.

• 14:20Jefferson Fisher?

  That was, it wasn't, it wasn't a thing.

• 14:22Speaker 01

  That's sad.

• 14:23Jefferson Fisher?

  It, there's.

• 14:23Speaker 01

  That makes me.

• 14:24Jefferson Fisher?

  You know what? The barbecue made up for it. I mean, we have it, but.

• 14:27Speaker 01

  Barbecue can't make up for everything.

• 14:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, that's true.

• 14:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:30Jefferson Fisher?

  We try. We really do try.

• 14:32Speaker 01

  It's okay. You have cornbread.

• 14:34Jefferson Fisher?

  It's, that's true. Y'all don't have cornbread?

• 14:36Speaker 01

  We don't. We had it last night.

• 14:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, nah. We, we definitely like, uh, having our, our barbecue on cornbread. Um, I will say, when, um, what I heard was, when it comes to, what I heard was do the stupid things with them. Like the things that you say that are, that's, that's, don't be, don't be doing that.

• 14:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, don't be silly.

• 14:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Exactly. Then they're not going to, then they won't share those kind of things when you.

• 15:03Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 15:03Jefferson Fisher?

  And so I think that's beautiful. Be, be willing to meet them in their world rather than saying, hey, be interested in exactly what I'm interested in because it's more convenient for me and more comfortable for me.

• 15:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Um, and it can shut down that way. How do you teach your children these vocal mastery things that you talk about, like melody and, and tone and pitch and?

• 15:26Speaker 01

  So much of it comes down to how you use your voice when you're with them. Because if, if you think about, and, and I see this in so many of my students too is, well, where did you get your voice from? Where, where did you learn how to play your instrument? Where did you learn how to use your voice the way you're currently using it? It came from us watching our parents. I mean, you, you, you know this with your children, right?

• 15:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 15:47Speaker 01

  I, I love gardening, which is a crazy new thing for me, right? Love mowing the lawn. Guess what my daughter wants? Little fake lawn mower.

• 15:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 15:54Speaker 01

  Right? I love barbecuing in Australia. Cooking a steak on the barbecue with coals. Guess what my son wants? A fake little barbecue right next to dad barbecuing, right? My daughter sees my wife baking. Now we've got a fake kitchen. I'm like, this has got to stop. This is crazy. Right? They want everything that we're doing.

• 16:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 01

  So they copy all of your behaviors. They watch the way you talk to each other. They watch the way you talk to them. They listen to it. And what they're doing is they're, they're learning the patterns from you. So the voice you have now as an adult is a series of habits we've learned from the people we were around when we were young. So the, the best way to teach it is for you to use your voice well. For you to communicate with melody, with emotion, for you to emote with your face. Because the reverse of it for me was, I grew up in a family where mum and dad were refugees from Vietnam. Dad's been through a war, so he showed nothing.

• 16:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  So my dad, my dad was, I, I mean, I thought my dad didn't like playing with me. Right? I used to have this feeling of, why are you even like, why don't you enjoy playing with me? Because even when we, I don't know if you have Power Rangers here? Do you have Power Rangers?

• 17:05Jefferson Fisher?

  We do.

• 17:05Speaker 01

  Okay, it's amazing.

• 17:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 17:06Speaker 01

  So when I, I, I got my dad to watch Power Rangers. And to me, that was the greatest show I've ever seen, but my dad was just completely stoic at all times.

• 17:16Speaker 01

  And I learned that from my dad. Because then growing up, I thought, all right, you can, it's okay for you to feel something, but it's actually not okay to show it.

• 17:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 17:26Speaker 01

  Yeah. And, and that's what I learned. And my dad didn't intentionally do that. My dad did that because he was, he was stopping the pain that he felt inside from impacting me. And the only way he knew to not hurt me was I'm, I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna block the feelings out. My dad didn't go to therapy, man. My dad didn't have time, like.

• 17:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Our parents don't know about therapy.

• 17:48Speaker 01

  Well, yeah, let alone my dad's version of therapy is, well, I'll just, I'll just walk it off.

• 17:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 17:54Speaker 01

  Just walk it off. My dad doesn't work like that.

• 17:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 17:57Speaker 01

  So I learned it the wrong way because I was modeling them. So I saw it in myself. I see it in my students.

• 18:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Mm-hmm.

• 18:04Speaker 01

  The best way to help our children be better communicators is for us to be better communicators. And it's beautiful in that sense. Because as we go on our journey, they're watching at all times, at all times. But my, my, my daughter's, it's, it's to this level. She just recently said, uh, the word socks. But she doesn't say it as that.

• 18:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 18:30Speaker 01

  Okay, you can only imagine what it sounds like when she says it. It's a naughty word.

• 18:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 18:33Speaker 01

  But the moment she said it, my wife and I laughed. She's watching. So she goes, oh, that word makes them laugh.

• 18:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 18:40Speaker 01

  So she always said, we're like, no, no, she always says it now. But they're watching us.

• 18:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 18:46Speaker 01

  So your reaction, your positive reaction also helps them too. So it's, again, I think it's a combination of you being a great communicator, you, you being playful. They're watching, they'll copy. And then when they do something well, positively reinforce that.

• 19:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm. What we found in our family, because again, he's, they're both reading age and wonderful readers, is I will, we'll take turns of them reading a story.

• 19:13Speaker 01

  Hmm, out loud.

• 19:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Because, out loud.

• 19:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Because I have, when they were young, at a, a wonderful friend of ours, he wanted to read them a bedtime story.

• 19:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:27Jefferson Fisher?

  And they were all excited, cuddled up next to him. And he was like, the cat jumped over the moon. And the moon came and saw, and they were, looked at him like, that's not how my dad reads it. Of like how, how different it was.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:42Jefferson Fisher?

  By the inflection, the tone, the pitch.

• 19:45Speaker 01

  Right speech.

• 19:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Exactly.

• 19:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:47Jefferson Fisher?

  And so what we do is we'll try out different ways of reading a book. There's this book that's wonderful, the kid's book called, I think it's The Book With No Pictures. And it's great. It's a great book. But we'll try reading in like a different accent.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  Oh, fun.

• 20:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Or try reading it as if like you're mad or.

• 20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:08Jefferson Fisher?

  And because that's how at least I can get them to go up and down and get kind of dynamic with their words.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 20:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Um, but I do find that they, they hear it from us.

• 20:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do. But that's, what a, what a great practical way.

• 20:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 20:25Speaker 01

  Because that's how I get adults to reengage with their voice, is I give them children's books. Because children's books are naturally emotive. They use naturally emotive words.

• 20:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 20:33Speaker 01

  That force it out of you. It forces it out of you. Where if you're reading a self-development book, sometimes the, the, the words aren't as emotive. It's harder to do it with that. So this is such a great.

• 20:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 20:43Speaker 01

  And I think this is a great opportunity for you to give me some Australian.

• 20:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, give me, give me a little Australian here.

• 20:49Jefferson Fisher?

  This was.

• 20:50Speaker 01

  Play with the Australian accent.

• 20:51Jefferson Fisher?

  This, uh, this, this one is where, uh, we're, we got a lot. We've got a lot to go with.

• 20:59Speaker 01

  Let's try.

• 20:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 21:00Speaker 01

  Cause you did an amazing Kiwi accent before.

• 21:02Jefferson Fisher?

  The Kiwi, the Kiwi accent's so much more fun.

• 21:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, do both.

• 21:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, the Kiwi accent, so like, when we went to Australia, uh, we first went to New Zealand. And New Zealand, uh, New Zealanders, uh.

• 21:18Jefferson Fisher?

  I forgot how they say it. It's like Aotearoa, something like that. As how they

• 21:22Speaker 01

  Kiora.

• 21:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, Kiora is how they say hello.

• 21:25Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 21:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, but they call the island of New Zealand and say Aotearoa, I believe.

• 21:31Speaker 01

  Right.

• 21:31Jefferson Fisher?

  And, um, anyway, they're just bigger than life people. Where the men and women, that's what were just built different, huge. And then I'd go to like order some coffee. And I'm like, oh my gosh, this guy is so big. And he would just be like, he would just be like, hi mate. And I feel like, oh, hey, what's, what's going on? He's like, uh, you, uh, want some, uh, coffee? Uh, it's pretty good, you know? We got some, uh, yeah, oh yeah, we got some, uh, yeah, we're good flavors. Yeah, if you like, you can try some if you want. And I was like, I was like, hands down, like, this is pretty awesome.

• 22:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Of how big these, uh, you know, how, uh, cause we went to a rugby game. We, we saw in the all blacks and everything, dude. But we met them and it was just like, oh yeah, it's pretty good. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Want some? And like, it was very, so, so quick. And that was, that was, uh, Kiwi. But then in Australia,

• 22:35Speaker 01

  Let's go.

• 22:36Jefferson Fisher?

  We, we saw, uh, the Wallabies.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Hey.

• 22:40Jefferson Fisher?

  So we went to a wallaby game.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 22:42Jefferson Fisher?

  And holy smokes, everybody drank so much, man. It was like, I've never seen more beer in my life than at a rugby game. It was, everybody had like three per hand. I didn't even know they could get three per hand. But they did, but theirs is much more like, kind of, oh yeah. They're like, it was, everything was, I had one guy that would say righto. He'd write it after everything.

• 23:04Speaker 01

  Not bad. Give us a sentence though. You're doing single words. Come on, give us a sentence.

• 23:08Jefferson Fisher?

  That's what they would do in phrases. They would give like little bitty phrases, uh, on something like, they would use the phrase, uh, she'll be right. Yeah, she'd be right. And that was their like things. Everywhere you went, and so, um, it was, their whole personality was different. And even in the audience, when I'd speak to the different groups, like you just got a vibe for how rowdy.

• 23:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Kind of they are. And I felt, yeah, in Australia, they're much more rowdy.

• 23:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Compared to Kiwi, Kiwi felt like really kind of more

• 23:46Speaker 01

  Gentle.

• 23:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Gentle, not maybe timid, but just, I guess that's the whole like keep, you know, be a tidy Kiwi. Kind of like mentality.

• 23:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:56Jefferson Fisher?

  But where they would be like, hi mate. It was, Australia was like, hi mate. Like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, goodbye. And, uh, they were definitely, they were definitely different, man.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  And thank you for doing that because what, what, what a, what a fun way to add more vocal variety. And you, you naturally, when you did that, it was just, it was so beautiful. Cause you hit notes you don't normally hit.

• 24:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, it definitely pushes you out. I will say that, uh, good communicators to me, uh, also tend to be really good at, um, impressions, imitations. Like tend to be really good at hearing the dial, like the, even the timbers, like somebody's voice of how well you can imitate them. Do you find that to be true?

• 24:39Speaker 01

  I find that to be true too, because great communicators, they've got access to the, they've got more access to their instrument. So they can do it.

• 24:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  And an example of that is we've been watching a lot of comedy. So we've been just kind of also on a comedy tour, just going to as many comedy clubs as we can.

• 24:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 24:53Speaker 01

  And the best comedians are able to imitate like that.

• 24:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  They can go, yeah, I was, I was at a pub and then they're just immediately going to the accent and everyone loves it and they laugh. Yeah. So I think, I think what a great way to practice. I, I love that you got that with your kids.

• 25:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 25:06Speaker 01

  It's so fun.

• 25:07Jefferson Fisher?

  For sure. It was, uh, we got to, we got to practice a lot of that. And so we would be walking to the park. Yeah, we did. We'd walk to the park and only speak, um, Australian. But I, I also have this weird thing where I can listen to somebody and then I naturally kind of start talking.

• 25:21Speaker 01

  Really?

• 25:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Talking. And so I have to kind of rein it back in or else I'm, I'm not, I'm not thinking. And that might, there's probably some science. Our friend, Shadé would probably

• 25:33Speaker 01

  Would probably be able to tell us.

• 25:34Jefferson Fisher?

  She'd be able to go, actually, the research says, and give us a study exactly

• 25:37Speaker 01

  Oh, gosh.

• 25:38Jefferson Fisher?

  On, on what that is.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  I, I think it's the desire to connect causes that.

• 25:43Jefferson Fisher?

  The frequency.

• 25:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably some kind of physics

• 25:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 25:46Speaker 01

  involved.

• 25:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Man, I, I love your book. Before we forget how to connect, be heard, be seen and communicate with confidence. This is a great book. And I've seen, as you know, a lot of communication books. This one I love because you, you talk about something different than I think anybody. And that is how to use your voice, what you call your, your instrument.

• 26:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:11Jefferson Fisher?

  What is the number one thing we get wrong about how to use our voice?

• 26:16Speaker 01

  Very limited range. I find that variety is the key. Because you, you, you hear from a lot of people online that is, I have been how, how come I become more engaging? How can I be more influential? And if you want to be more engaging, you need to be more engaged. You need to engage with your voice more. Whereas people have this idea that, oh, to be more engaging, there's some, some magical, no, no, just, just be more engaged in the conversation that you're in.

• 26:46Speaker 01

  Activate your instrument more and you naturally become more engaged. And the moment you become more engaged with your voice, naturally these things come into the picture. Naturally, your body language unlocks. It, it, it's, it's crazy. When I work a lot with my students, I get them to just simply increase their volume. And someone who's naturally fairly quiet, they actually don't use their body language as much. But the moment you get them to use a stronger level of volume, you notice their, their hand gestures unlock, their face starts to move. So it, it, it's, variety is key.

• 27:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 27:20Speaker 01

  And that, that's why I wrote the book in the way I wrote it. Because every chapter you go through, every vocal foundation I teach you, it might be rate of speech. I get you to practice speaking slowly, but then I give you tactics. Well, now you have to say the same paragraph that I've given you in the book, but you have to say it in 20 seconds. Then try 10, see how you go. So that way you practice your entire range of rate. So that there are moments when you should speak slowly. There are moments where that's extremely valuable. But then when you want to portray passion, excitement, enthusiasm, you kind of got to speed up. Because that's what makes, that's what gets that energy across.

• 27:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 28:00Speaker 01

  So we go through all five. There's rate of speech, there's volume, pitch and melody, tonality, which is the emotion underneath your voice, and then the pause. And we get you to practice all of those things, but stretch them all.

• 28:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 28:14Speaker 01

  It, it, do you do yoga?

• 28:16Jefferson Fisher?

  I do.

• 28:17Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 28:18Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 28:18Speaker 01

  But I love it. But I love it as a metaphor, but I love it as a metaphor.

• 28:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Right. I mean, it's not like a, an everyday thing.

• 28:24Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:24Jefferson Fisher?

  But I can touch my toes. Yeah.

• 28:26Speaker 01

  I've, I've done, I've done it once. I, I don't know if I can. We'll try later. We'll try later.

• 28:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, it sounds good.

• 28:31Speaker 01

  But I've, I've tried it once with my wife and I, I was terrible at it. Cause when I saw them do it, I was like, God, that looks so easy.

• 28:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 28:37Speaker 01

  And then, yeah, it wasn't easy shaking the whole time.

• 28:40Jefferson Fisher?

  You do like, if you've done like a Pilates or like a bar class, you've ever heard of that? The Pilates will humble you.

• 28:46Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 28:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Humble you. It don't matter how strong you are.

• 28:48Speaker 01

  The machines where you lay down, use the machine?

• 28:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And just don't.

• 28:53Speaker 01

  Okay. I won't. Thank you.

• 28:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Highly encourage it, but you, you need to, you need to sign like waivers before you do this.

• 29:00Speaker 01

  You might die. Well, the thing about the, the yoga experience was it just range of motion. I didn't realize that I had such limited range of motion. Right? Because when I started doing some of those exercises, oh, and wow, I can't actually stretch my arm back that far. That's crazy. It's because I had to tell my trainer that I said, hey, can we practice more range of motion? Because I feel really rigid.

• 29:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 29:23Speaker 01

  And that's what also happens to your voice, your body language. As you start to use it less and less and less, you don't stretch it enough.

• 29:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 29:30Speaker 01

  You'll start to become more rigid and then you start to become monotone.

• 29:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 29:33Speaker 01

  And, and I, I used to just think this is how I use my voice and I don't do anything else with it.

• 29:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 29:38Speaker 01

  And then I, I, I learned that, gosh, I've got so much more range to play with. It's not that you will always hit the whole range of melody, the whole range of volume, the whole range of rate. But having access to it means that you'll use more of it.

• 29:52Speaker 02

  Before we keep going, I have a quick note from Athena. Question for you, 15 hours. What could you do with an additional 15 hours in your week? Athena is an executive assistant matching platform. What do they do? They match you with EAs to help get all those little things. And on average, Athena's clients get up to 15 hours per week back. So if you're thinking, hey, I don't really think I need it, an EA Jefferson. Is there a gift that you've been meaning to buy, an appointment you've been meaning to schedule? That trip that you've been meaning to plan, those flights you've been meaning to book? And if you could only just do it if you had more time in the day? Well, that's exactly what Athena is for. Right now you can go to athena.com slash Jefferson and find your EA that's right for you.

• 30:36Speaker 02

  That's athena.com slash Jefferson. Now let's keep going.

• 30:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Can you teach somebody tone?

• 30:43Speaker 01

  Give their emotions?

• 30:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. Well, let me ask, when you put it of like, I, I have my view. I'm, I'm very curious of your view of how much of somebody's given word.

• 30:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:58Jefferson Fisher?

  What's, if we could put a percentage on, is it the words or the tone?

• 31:02Speaker 01

  Ooh, I mean, which one?

• 31:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Which one matters the most?

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Ooh, that's all, that, that, that's the question of. Is it the notes in the music that matter most or how the musician played it?

• 31:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 31:15Speaker 01

  I thought, my view, how you play it.

• 31:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 31:19Speaker 01

  What's yours?

• 31:20Jefferson Fisher?

  My, I, I, I always think of like the eighty twenty rule, like it's, it's twenty percent your words, eighty percent.

• 31:25Speaker 01

  The way you play it?

• 31:26Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 31:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, because we could say the same words, but if I change the way I play it.

• 31:31Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 31:31Speaker 01

  You were gonna, you're gonna receive it different.

• 31:33Jefferson Fisher?

  For sure. Like, there's a lot of people.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:36Jefferson Fisher?

  That play guitar.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 31:37Jefferson Fisher?

  You put it in the hands of John Mayer.

• 31:39Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 31:40Jefferson Fisher?

  It's not the same.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  It's not the same.

• 31:41Jefferson Fisher?

  You put it in the hands of Steve Gadd.

• 31:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Drummer, not the same.

• 31:44Speaker 01

  You give it to me, awful.

• 31:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Not the same.

• 31:46Speaker 01

  Awful.

• 31:47Jefferson Fisher?

  You know, I mean, just, I'm just, all the people who use their voice and singers and, and uh, you think you may be okay to instrument and then, cause it's the same notes.

• 31:57Speaker 01

  It is.

• 31:58Jefferson Fisher?

  But then in the hands of somebody else, it sounds way different. And so you could give them the same words. It's gonna come out a much different way.

• 32:07Speaker 01

  And, and, and that's, that's where miscommunication often happens.

• 32:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  Where you say the right thing. I mean, I don't know if you've ever experienced this with your wife, but I have. Like when I've done something wrong and I'm saying sorry.

• 32:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  I'm like, well, I'm sorry.

• 32:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 32:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, that's, that's.

• 32:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Talking to my guy all wrong. Yeah, yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 01

  You might die.

• 32:26Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 32:26Speaker 01

  That evening.

• 32:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I, I, I didn't like your tone.

• 32:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. And, well, she doesn't say that though.

• 32:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 32:32Speaker 01

  She just, you know, she will say something else stronger.

• 32:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, for sure. Even, I mean, growing up, my mom would say, I don't like how you said that.

• 32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:40Jefferson Fisher?

  And, I mean, it's, the words are right.

• 32:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:43Jefferson Fisher?

  But it's definitely if there's attitude, you have that inflection.

• 32:47Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 32:47Jefferson Fisher?

  And it's, how, how do you teach somebody tone?

• 32:50Speaker 01

  The way I teach it is I, again, I get a children's book and I get them to play with different facial expressions.

• 32:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Facial expressions?

• 32:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, because my, my belief is that the face you make, well, your face is the remote control that allows you to inject emotion into your voice.

• 33:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 33:08Speaker 01

  All right, because your face is where the sound comes from. And when we emote a certain face, it changes the sound that comes out of that face. Right? And, and, and, and then they've, they've done so many different studies where the, the one where they put a pen in your mouth.

• 33:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  And they go, put a pen in your mouth and speak, or put a pen in your mouth and do a test.

• 33:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 33:28Speaker 01

  How did you feel while you're doing the test? It's like, oh, I, I, I felt good without the pen. Oh, I felt more stressed.

• 33:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 33:34Speaker 01

  And when I get my students to put a pen in the mouth or smile and talk, and at the end of that, I ask them, well, how did you feel now? They go, oh, yeah, I feel a lot better.

• 33:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  I feel happy. And then you also sounded happier when you did that, right? And then I get them to do angry.

• 33:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 33:47Speaker 01

  And then I try and then they're reading a children's book, man. They're reading Three Little Pigs, but you can hear the anger as they do this for thirty seconds, start to seep in. So a lot of the times, I don't think it's, you know, there's, there's two questions here. One is your range of emotion. One is being able to control your tone in high-stakes situations.

• 34:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 34:08Speaker 01

  So I think there's two situations. One is the person who doesn't emote much at all, says things with very little emotional information. And when you say something with very little vocal emotional information and very little physical emotional information, people now will, they will fill in the meaning for you.

• 34:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 34:29Speaker 01

  They'll go, oh, he doesn't care.

• 34:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 34:31Speaker 01

  Ah, he's not interested in what I'm saying. Whereas the other person is interested, but because they don't have good access to their instrument, they're not showing it of it. Their habitual behavior is no facial expression and no vocal emotion. So then you just think disinterested, or you think they're angry. So there's a danger in not emoting, there's a danger in not showing anything at all, right? And the way to show it more is to be able to, well, stretch it more. It's like yoga, stretch it more.

• 34:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  The more you stretch it, the more you're playful with it, the more access you'll, you'll have when you're communicating.

• 35:02Jefferson Fisher?

  You, early in your childhood.

• 35:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:05Jefferson Fisher?

  You've talked about being scared to speak up.

• 35:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:09Jefferson Fisher?

  What, what's, what's it like? I, I, I really am curious. What's it like to be terrified to speak up? I just wanna put some words to how I know a lot of people feel.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:26Jefferson Fisher?

  When they want to say something.

• 35:28Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 35:28Jefferson Fisher?

  But there's nothing that they feel like they can do or access.

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 35:32Jefferson Fisher?

  To, to get over that hump.

• 35:36Speaker 01

  My experience was when I started school around five or six.

• 35:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 35:43Speaker 01

  English is my third language. So I learned Chinese, then I learned Vietnamese, then I was thrown into school knowing no English. So there was a massive sense of isolation. So I, I, I felt a lot, but Jefferson, I didn't even have the words.

• 35:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 35:57Speaker 01

  Uh, uh, in the language that I wanted to better express myself in, to have the people around me be able to understand me. So I, I felt, I felt alone, I felt isolated, I felt trapped.

• 36:11Speaker 01

  And it took me years to be able to learn the language because I then avoided everybody. I, I, I, I would hide. I remember I used to hide uh, behind bushes in the oval so people wouldn't see me. I used to find many different weird places to hide. So, so I, I know what that feels like. And then once I learned the language, I was scared to speak the language.

• 36:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 36:33Speaker 01

  Because I sounded funny.

• 36:35Jefferson Fisher?

  The accent, yeah.

• 36:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, the accent. So I had, I had a very strong accent growing up because, again, you learn these two languages first. So what are you actually learning? You're learning the mouth movements of the Chinese language, then you're learning the mouth movements of the Vietnamese language. Then you're using the mouth movements of the Chinese and Vietnamese language to speak English, which requires a different set of mouth movements, therefore accent sounding funny.

• 36:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 36:57Speaker 01

  And then when they made fun of the way I spoke English, well, I'm not gonna talk it then.

• 37:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 37:03Speaker 01

  But I could think in English now. I had the words, but I didn't wanna speak up.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Not, not just because I was scared of what they think about my ideas, but from the way I sounded, even to the way I looked.

• 37:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 37:19Speaker 01

  Growing up, right? Cause the Vietnamese refugees came around the seventies and the eighties. So I was one of the very few Vietnamese kids in school too. So I stayed quiet and kept to myself and never said anything for a very long time.

• 37:34Speaker 01

  Out of fear.

• 37:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 37:35Speaker 01

  Being judged. So I think I, I, I, I feel almost in disbelief, like I, I, it feels surreal to have written a book about a thing that you used to suck at so bad, man.

• 37:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 01

  You know, that's why I added a lot of the stories in there to, to help people know that this is just a series of skills.

• 37:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 37:56Speaker 01

  It's just a series of behaviors that anybody can learn, going from that kid who was trapped in that.

• 38:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  And the only way that I was able to get out of that was, was actually through the kindness of others.

• 38:10Speaker 01

  I had so many people who would say, hey, Vin, what do you think?

• 38:16Speaker 01

  Do you wanna say, do you wanna share a few things? And it was from my teachers when I was growing up in high school, a few of my, my theater teachers who, who created space for me to be able to feel safe and speak up. And when the other kids did make fun of me, they, they would, they would create those boundaries. And say, hey, do you wanna come up and say a few words?

• 38:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 01

  And then they didn't. So I, I, I was fortunate that I had great teachers along the way that gave me the opportunity to, to feel heard, to feel seen.

• 38:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 38:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, but sometimes we always, we, we don't always get that though.

• 38:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 38:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I was lucky. I was lucky.

• 38:52Jefferson Fisher?

  How do, how can somebody who's shy, maybe more timid than they want to be, become a more confident communicator?

• 39:03Speaker 01

  I would first say, this is gonna be a weird sentence for you to hear. First of all, just to acknowledge it. If you've been shy for a long time, the reason you're so good at being shy is because you've spent the last ten, twenty, thirty years practicing shy behaviors.

• 39:22Speaker 01

  You become what you practice.

• 39:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 39:24Speaker 01

  Okay? So you've become that through repeating certain behaviors. And there are shy behaviors. There are visual shy behaviors, there are auditory shy behaviors, and sometimes there are verbal shy behaviors, like some examples. So say visual, sometimes we play smaller, shoulders come in, we, hands in the prayer position, sometimes hands in the pockets.

• 39:48Speaker 01

  Gestures that communicate, I'm uncomfortable, I'm nervous. Sometimes they're vocal, sometimes it's a very quiet volume. Sometimes it's verbally, you're rambling, you go in circles, you say, hey, I'm sorry, can I share an idea? So again, just some examples, some, some visual, vocal, verbal behaviors. Confidence also has a series of behaviors. So find really low-stake moments with what I call neutral ears. And, and neutral ears are people who have no idea of who you are.

• 40:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 40:18Speaker 01

  Because if you, if you are naturally quiet, smaller, and then you tomorrow come to work and be like, hey.

• 40:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  This new version of him. Immediately people go, what are you doing? Why are you being weird? You're trying too hard.

• 40:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 40:32Speaker 01

  So find neutral ears now. Find neutral ears and do the opposite to what I said. So when you go get some gas, we call it petrol in Australia. So when you go get some petrol.

• 40:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, right.

• 40:40Speaker 01

  So as you go get some gas and, or petrol, or you go to the grocery store, try on a new volume.

• 40:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  If you're naturally fairly quiet, give me a seven to eight out of ten and just greet the person with energy. Use larger body language, larger gestures. Oh, hey, a double wave. Don't do a single double wave.

• 40:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 40:58Speaker 01

  Hey, it's good to see you, right? Start practicing that with neutral ears so you can iron out the kinks. Otherwise, if you do it immediately with people you know and you love.

• 41:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Hmm.

• 41:10Speaker 01

  They'll be shocked by it and they often react negatively to it. Because my, my vocal teachers always said, uh, your voice is your personality.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  It's how people perceive it. So when you shift the way you use your voice drastically, it indicates a radical change in who you are, which scares the people you love.

• 41:30Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  So if you want to do this also around the people you love, just prime them, just say, hey, listen, I've been listening to Vin and Jefferson. I feel like I haven't been giving as much energy to you and the children. I want to bring more. I want to bring a better version of me, a version of me that energizes you and the kids. If you see me trying to improve my communication, would you support me? Now that completely changes the way they perceive the vocal change and the communication behavioral change.

• 41:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 41:58Speaker 01

  Now they'll encourage you. So again, the confident behaviors, try on a stronger volume. Add more melody to your voice.

• 42:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 42:06Speaker 01

  Visually, smile, use larger gestures. Play a bigger version of yourself. Right? And verbally, have a conversation. Engage in a conversation. Ask the person, hey, what's the best thing that's happened in your day today? I'd love to hear it. And then I'll tell you one of mine. Something you'd never say as someone who believes they're shy.

• 42:27Jefferson Fisher?

  I think that's great.

• 42:29Speaker 01

  Neutral ears. And then if you do it bad, never go to the grocery store again.

• 42:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, just go to a different one.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, like you move states. You just change states.

• 42:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Exactly. I always thought that it's almost impossible to

• 42:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:43Jefferson Fisher?

  use hand gestures.

• 42:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You thought it was impossible?

• 42:46Jefferson Fisher?

  And sound shy.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  Ah, interesting.

• 42:48Jefferson Fisher?

  And so

• 42:49Speaker 01

  I like that.

• 42:50Jefferson Fisher?

  For people who tend to be more timid in the way they use their voice, maybe a little bit softer. And I don't really know, I just feel like, okay. And I'll say, I want you to use more hand gestures. It's almost impossible, from what I've seen, from people to have that same timid voice and also use hand gestures at the same time.

• 43:10Speaker 01

  And I would agree with that. And so with volume too.

• 43:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 43:13Speaker 01

  I've never met a really loud shy person.

• 43:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Right. Yeah, exactly.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  And the biggest danger here that Jefferson is when people try this, they're immediately going to say, but that's not me. They immediately say that. And the really difficult thing that I've noticed on the journey of trying to improve the communication skills is that very psychological obstacle in your own head. As you're exploring the instrument, the moment you say, that's not me, what happens to the process of exploration? It stops.

• 43:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 43:43Speaker 01

  And then what happens right after that? You revert back to the way you've been communicating your entire life. You go back to the same behaviors that you've been repeating for the last 20, 20, 30 years of your life, which are the behaviors that have made you believe now that you're someone who's shy. I think we are the person that tends to stop ourselves from being able to improve because we've become so attached to these behaviors, to the point where you call it, that's me. That's who I am. No, no, no, that's just a series of behaviors that you can choose to change.

• 44:15Jefferson Fisher?

  I absolutely agree with that. When somebody goes, well, this is just who I am. I'm, what I typically hear is, I'm just too direct. This is just who I am. Or no, this is, I tend to be really loud and this is just who I am.

• 44:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:28Jefferson Fisher?

  I don't know, that's who you are. But that's maybe who you've chosen to be today.

• 44:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:33Jefferson Fisher?

  And so of knowing what behaviors are you implementing?

• 44:38Speaker 01

  And then even more, we nail that nail into the coffin by saying, that's authentic.

• 44:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 44:44Speaker 01

  You know, no, you're kind of just being mean.

• 44:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  What do you mean authentic?

• 44:49Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm just being real.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just being real. And those words, real, authentic. And sometimes it's just, that's just what you're familiar with.

• 44:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  That's just what you're used to. And does that have to always be you?

• 45:03Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 45:04Speaker 01

  No.

• 45:06Jefferson Fisher?

  Before we continue, a quick note from Our Place. Let me tell you, okay? I did not know how much I have come to love these pans. They are cookware from Our Place. And they're made ceramic. There's no of these forever chemicals. It's not a bunch of Teflon and plastic and all this other stuff. It's easy. I cook eggs in it and they swipe right out. I use them all the time. They have pans that they call the always pans. And then they also have this, this, I guess you'd say it's like a little oven. Okay, just hear me. It's called their Wonder Oven, all right? And we got it for what we thought was just going to be our daughter because she loves to cook and do little things. We also now use it as a family way more than we thought we would. It's fantastic.

• 45:50Jefferson Fisher?

  I have a lot of Our Place because it's so good. Mine now has like a little patina because we use it so often. Right now, you can go to fromourplace.com and they're having their biggest sale of the year, 45% off with specific sales and bundles. That's site wide now through November 30th. So go to fromourplace.com/jefferson and go get this 45% off fromourplace.com/jefferson. Now, let's keep going. How do you sound confident when you don't feel confident?

• 46:20Speaker 01

  Okay. I love approaching this from this angle, okay? So out of these three words, which one do you think is the easiest to control? The way you look, the way you feel, or the way you sound?

• 46:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Easiest to control?

• 46:35Speaker 01

  Which one's the hardest to control, actually?

• 46:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Hardest?

• 46:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, look, feel and sound.

• 46:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Feel?

• 46:42Speaker 01

  I agree.

• 46:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  I believe that too. When we want to be more confident, what's the language we use? I wish I what more confident?

• 46:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Felt.

• 46:51Speaker 01

  Yes. So then we reach for the most difficult thing. Right? Emotional mastery, pretty hard, pretty hard. Okay, I still get hangry, I get upset, right?

• 47:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah. You can't, you can't help how you feel.

• 47:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it's really difficult to control yourself with feel. Whereas it's infinitely easier to control the way you look and control the way you sound. And I see this all the time in myself and I'm curious to hear your perspective. Because when I'm backstage and about to go on stage and speak and even when I'm about to do this with you, I feel a little bit nervous. So then when I feel that nervousness and I'm like, oh, okay, I want to add as much value as possible. I want to be, I have good presence for Jefferson. Well, then I go to the bathroom, right? And then I just focus on the way I look. So shoulders down, back, confident, trying to be confident with my body language, hand gestures. And when I look a certain way, it sends signals to my brain that, oh, Vin must be confident, right? Whereas when you're nervous, you play smaller,

• 47:46Speaker 01

  which sends signals that, oh, you're probably in danger.

• 47:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 47:50Speaker 01

  So as you start to look more confident, you'll feel more confident. And then as you feel more confident, you start to sound more confident. But it works the other way too. So as you look more confident, and then if you back that up as well with sounding more confident, now it almost becomes inevitable in a matter of minutes that you'll start to feel more confident. And then as you feel more confident, now you'll start to look more and sound more confident.

• 48:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 48:13Speaker 01

  So it's this incredible loop that happens. And Coach John Wooden has a great quote. He's an NBA coach, unfortunately passed away, but an incredible man. He's got a quote where he says, if you focus on the things you can't control, you'll soon lose control of the things you can control. So apply it to that.

• 48:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 48:35Speaker 01

  If you focus on the thing you can't control, which is the way you feel.

• 48:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 48:38Speaker 01

  You'll soon lose control of the way you looked and the way you sound, which is what? Hands start to tremble, you start to go smaller. And then when your body shakes, what else shakes your voice?

• 48:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 48:48Speaker 01

  I always think about that when I need to be more confident.

• 48:51Jefferson Fisher?

  I've never thought about before, which I like. I like the, we always say, I want to feel more confident. Well, you just reach for the hardest thing to possibly control and that is how you feel. I like to say, confidence is as assertive does. Meaning if I can get them to do more assertive phrases and they hear it differently.

• 49:12Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 49:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Then they will feel it. But I love the way you come at it from this, let's focus on the things you can control first. You can't control how you look. And so can you look just a little bit more confident? Based on the things that we know, that we associate with confident people.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:28Jefferson Fisher?

  And by seeing yourself in that, possibly maybe you hear yourself sound a little bit more confident because you use an assertive phrase or you don't begin with an apology or you have a much more confident start. And then what does that naturally do? Makes you feel more confident. I like that approach. I've never thought about it that way of we tend to reach for the hardest thing and that is to, how do you feel? I want to feel more confident. Why? Let me ask this. How, how can somebody stop their voice from shaking when they talk?

• 50:04Speaker 01

  Often, our voice is shaking because of excess adrenaline. Right? When you get put in a situation where you're really nervous, your body starts to believe it's in fight or flight. So then it just starts to generate a whole bunch of, creates a whole bunch of adrenaline. So with all of that adrenaline in your body, it's getting you ready to fight or run.

• 50:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 50:23Speaker 01

  And if you do nothing with it and just stand there, you start to shake.

• 50:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 50:28Speaker 01

  So to be able to manage a shaky voice, you need to manage the adrenaline, the core of the issue here. So the way you manage that is brisk forms of exercise. So you could do, we call them star jumps in Australia. You call them jumping jacks. Who the hell's Jack?

• 50:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Star jumps?

• 50:43Speaker 01

  We call them, mate, because it looks like a star. Jack?

• 50:46Jefferson Fisher?

  True.

• 50:46Speaker 01

  Who's Jack?

• 50:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Star jumps sound pretty cool. I will say-

• 50:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think we do have that one.

• 50:51Jefferson Fisher?

  Plus one for Australia. That's-

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Plus one for Australia.

• 50:54Jefferson Fisher?

  That's a good one.

• 50:55Speaker 01

  Which may tip the scale. I think the coffee and the star jumps.

• 51:00Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, let's go easy.

• 51:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll go star jumps, mate. Do some star jumps.

• 51:05Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm sorry, I can't hear that. I can't hear that word.

• 51:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Just do some star jumps.

• 51:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, do some triangle jumps.

• 51:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 51:12Speaker 01

  You know, and whatever shape that, whatever shape, whatever shape, do some square jumps.

• 51:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Just jump.

• 51:16Speaker 01

  Just jump. Correct, correct, or-

• 51:18Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 51:19Speaker 01

  Sorry, it just sounds weird. Just do some of those, right? Go for a quick walk, go for a five minute walk. That helps get rid of the adrenaline. So that allows you to, you know, and brisk form exercise also does what? It helps you breathe.

• 51:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 51:34Speaker 01

  Try doing thirty star jumps and after that, you're breathing real deep now.

• 51:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 51:40Speaker 01

  Obviously you don't do that where you're about to go on a job interview and they see you do that through the glass mirrors. A little bit weird.

• 51:45Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, is he doing that?

• 51:46Speaker 01

  A little bit weird.

• 51:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, high knees, back, what's he doing?

• 51:49Speaker 01

  Impressive though.

• 51:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, right.

• 51:51Speaker 01

  Because his knees were very high.

• 51:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Are those star jumps?

• 51:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, exactly. Is that the Australian?

• 51:55Jefferson Fisher?

  That's the Australian version.

• 51:56Speaker 01

  Wow, impressive.

• 51:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, just getting your, getting your body going, exercise, just having a little bit of something that gives that nervous energy up.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  And then you'll notice your body will stop shaking. Another way it shows up is, you see this when presenters go on stage. I don't know if you've seen the prowl, how a speaker will go on stage and then just walk from one side to another and just not stop.

• 52:14Jefferson Fisher?

  All that nervous energy?

• 52:15Speaker 01

  It's because of the adrenaline. They're trying to get rid of it.

• 52:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Right? They're trying to get, but it's a non-functional behaviour if you're walking back and forth, because then it gradually distracts people from the message. If your voice is shaking, it will distract people from the message.

• 52:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 52:29Speaker 01

  Right? So you manage that before you go in. It's as simple as that. I do this little segment in my workshops where I get my students to go on stage and speak in front of the class. Before they do, ten star jumps, couple of push-ups if they can. And the moment they go up, they sound more confident immediately, better access to their voice.

• 52:48Jefferson Fisher?

  That's beautiful. I, in depositions in law, I might be asking a question of the other side, the party who has either sued my client or who my client is suing. And in that moment, it never fails. I don't think I've ever had it to where the other witness at the very beginning just starts, oh, I mean, everything, in their voice, everything just starts to shake.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Because they're facing you.

• 53:17Jefferson Fisher?

  No, no, they're just, in that moment,

• 53:19Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 53:19Jefferson Fisher?

  It is, it is heightened, heightened emotion.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  Oh, far out.

• 53:24Jefferson Fisher?

  And I can't tell you how many times where, and it doesn't matter who it is, in the first, I can tell in the first ten seconds if, okay, they're off, they are way more worried about their emotion and how they're appearing than anything else. And so what I'll do is, I might ask a few questions of where are you from? You know, tell me about your background. And then I'll go off the record. And then I'll say, all right, we're just gonna sit and breathe for a second.

• 53:53Speaker 01

  Oh, that's awesome.

• 53:54Jefferson Fisher?

  And like, how are you feeling? And like, I'm kind of nervous. Like, okay, well, let's take some big breaths. Do I look mean? And they'll go, no, I said, am I acting mean? They go, no, okay, all right. Like, this is, we're gonna all be part of this process. And he's here, your attorney's here to make sure that I'm on my best behaviour and I promise to be in my best behaviour because you've got a really good attorney right there. And so I find that when you're able to slow down and stop holding your breath, which I think is also through the exercise you talked about, so well, things go better. How important is it as communicators to speak slower? So I typically don't see it that somebody is speaking too slow. It's usually they're talking too fast.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 01

  Speaking slow is, I mean, to keep connected to what we're saying here is a wonderful way to control the nervousness. Right? So after you've done the exercises and you're about to go up and speak, start really slowly. Because that will help you feel calm. Because the times when you, in your life, the times when you're speaking the slowest, it's when you feel the most safe. Is when you feel the most in control. And the times you often are speaking the fastest, often it's when you get out of control.

• 55:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 55:12Speaker 01

  You're either too excited and you can't contain that excitement, or you're too scared and you're freaking out.

• 55:15Jefferson Fisher?

  And talking slow makes the other person feel more calm.

• 55:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. Right? So you may not, you can pace somebody out of panic as well. That's why when someone's panicking and, and you, you start freaking out, like, you should freak out, man, like, holy crap, right? And then they're gonna, they're gonna freak out. But that's why, I think, I think that's why you're such a great communicator. Because especially in those situations in the courtroom, you're bringing that sense of calm. And, oh gosh, I can only imagine what that does for the person listening. Like you said, like, hey, let's just take some breaths. So you can add that, you can combine what you mentioned with what I said, control the adrenaline.

• 55:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 55:56Speaker 01

  Start really slowly. It's critical. So it's a great tactic to use when you're feeling nervous. Just think, pause, deep breath, slow down.

• 56:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 56:05Speaker 01

  Go to the toilet, star jumps. You're golden.

• 56:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 56:09Speaker 01

  Right?

• 56:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 56:10Speaker 01

  Yeah. I love that that tickles you.

• 56:12Jefferson Fisher?

  It does, it literally does. It really does.

• 56:15Speaker 01

  Oh, that's so fun. I'm just gonna say it randomly during this podcast, star jumps.

• 56:19Jefferson Fisher?

  I know, I really, I really am. That's a great, that's a great way of doing it.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  You should introduce it to your children tonight and say, hey, I learned something new. I want to teach you how to do a star jump.

• 56:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, how to do, how to do star jumps. First, go to the toilet.

• 56:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:32Jefferson Fisher?

  Then give me some star jumps.

• 56:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then do the Australian accent while you're doing it.

• 56:36Jefferson Fisher?

  There you go.

• 56:36Speaker 01

  G'day, mate.

• 56:37Jefferson Fisher?

  G'day, mate.

• 56:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 56:39Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, nah.

• 56:40Speaker 01

  Can we quickly clarify the yeah nah thing real quick?

• 56:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 56:43Speaker 01

  I think it's important.

• 56:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:44Speaker 01

  I think if you're visiting Australia and you get an Australian who goes, oh, like, ask me a yes or no question. Ask me something.

• 56:51Jefferson Fisher?

  Um, did you have a good day?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, nah, yeah, yeah, nah. Was it a good day or not?

• 56:57Jefferson Fisher?

  Um,

• 57:00Jefferson Fisher?

  oh, yes.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  No.

• 57:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Dang it.

• 57:02Speaker 01

  Terrible. I expected more from you.

• 57:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, yeah.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, it's a little bit upsetting to be honest. I'm leaving the interview.

• 57:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 57:09Speaker 01

  I can't believe you.

• 57:10Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm gonna go.

• 57:11Speaker 01

  All right. So when an Australian does a yeah nah, it's the last word that we use, it's testing your act of listening, is the last word that we use that you take. So I did a yeah nah, yeah nah.

• 57:24Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay, okay.

• 57:25Speaker 01

  It's a nah, not a good day, mate.

• 57:26Jefferson Fisher?

  If you end on a nah.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  But if I end on a nah, it's not a good day.

• 57:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay, because they switched it up. They'd be like, nah, yeah.

• 57:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, well, exactly. Because we're still working out how we feel.

• 57:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 57:35Speaker 01

  Do you know what I mean? We're under pressure. We're like, oh, yeah, nah, yeah, yeah, yeah, nah, nah, yeah.

• 57:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. I did have a good day, mate.

• 57:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 57:43Speaker 01

  Right? But we wouldn't, we wouldn't give you the clarifying sentence at the end.

• 57:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 57:46Speaker 01

  Because it's universally understood.

• 57:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 57:48Speaker 01

  That the last thing you say counts.

• 57:50Jefferson Fisher?

  That's, and that's why everybody in Australia listens so well. You just, you hang on to the very last-

• 57:56Speaker 01

  Great, great, great nation of listeners there.

• 57:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Great nation of listeners.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Because you often don't understand what we're saying. So you've got to listen really carefully.

• 58:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  The yeah nah. But hey, I'm glad we-

• 58:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I definitely, I definitely had it to where there are some who their accent was so thick.

• 58:13Speaker 01

  I know.

• 58:13Jefferson Fisher?

  That they were just, they ate vowels. You know what I'm saying? I'm just like, yeah, it was like they were just chomping on vowels, just eating their vowels of like, uh, because the no has, uh, it sounds like N O R E. Uh, it was like, uh, nor, like, everything was like in a different.

• 58:34Speaker 01

  No.

• 58:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't that. Uh, and so it was funny how it felt like their words would, like a waterfall of, of the vowels.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  Where did you go?

• 58:47Jefferson Fisher?

  I went to four different cities in Australia. I can tell you, they like some vowels, man.

• 58:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, and so I-

• 58:54Speaker 01

  You have to, you have to tell us what you mean. You have to voice it, because-

• 58:59Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, it would be like, um, they, for example, if it was, um, park, pock, right?

• 59:07Speaker 01

  Pock, yeah.

• 59:08Jefferson Fisher?

  And, uh, and we might say, all right. All right. And it was like, it was, yeah, all right.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  All right.

• 59:16Jefferson Fisher?

  And then it was, um, but then some, some words are so quick.

• 59:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Like, we don't say righto, but they, y'all definitely, I got a lot of, I got a lot of that. I don't know, man. It was, the whole, just to say no, there wasn't no. How do you say no?

• 59:35Speaker 01

  No.

• 59:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Do you want to hear that difference?

• 59:38Speaker 01

  Sorry, I just spat that, I'm sorry. How do you say no?

• 59:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Uh, you say no. Or we'll not say nah, like nah, but we'll say nah.

• 59:45Speaker 01

  Yeah. Nah?

• 59:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, we'll go nah.

• 59:47Speaker 01

  That's a weird one, nah, no.

• 59:48Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 59:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's four syllables in that.

• 59:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, it was definitely the vowels.

• 59:54Speaker 01

  I mean, have you seen-

• 59:55Jefferson Fisher?

  I feel like we can talk about this forever, dude.

• 59:56Speaker 01

  We can, and I'm sorry to the listeners to this, but it's like how we say Australia. We go Australia.

• 1:00:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:01Speaker 01

  We leave the A out. Australia starts with an S.

• 1:00:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Really?

• 1:00:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:00:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Australia.

• 1:00:07Speaker 01

  Because I, I saw a video of yours that you put out.

• 1:00:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:00:10Speaker 01

  And when I saw it, I was like, oh no, I've got to, I've got to text him. But you were like Melbourne.

• 1:00:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, dude, yeah.

• 1:00:15Speaker 01

  Oh, man.

• 1:00:16Jefferson Fisher?

  They killed me on that. They roasted me so hard on that.

• 1:00:19Speaker 01

  I was like, the worst one I've ever heard is Melbourne-y.

• 1:00:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Well, hey, but hey, tell the person who spelled it that, okay? Because, because phonetically, I'm, I am correct, I'm saying, okay? Phonetically, that's-

• 1:00:32Speaker 01

  Melbourne.

• 1:00:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, like, it's like, okay, then spell it M E L B I N, Melbourne, uh, or U N, Melbourne. And then it was Brisbane.

• 1:00:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, Brisbane.

• 1:00:41Jefferson Fisher?

  And I said Brisbane.

• 1:00:42Speaker 01

  Brisbane? Oh, man, who says Brisbane?

• 1:00:45Jefferson Fisher?

  All Americans, all Americans. Yeah, no, we don't, we don't know what that, that, uh, that is, but that, like Sydney, we got it. Is it, um, but a lot of different things. That was like the first thing I said when I got there was like, yeah, I know, it's Melbourne.

• 1:01:02Speaker 01

  Well done.

• 1:01:03Jefferson Fisher?

  It's Brisbane because they definitely felt like, uh, it was, they took that personally.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  But isn't that interesting? Again, like, if you relate that back to communication, it's, it's, it's the way you say things that build rapport.

• 1:01:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:14Speaker 01

  Or the ways you say things that can, they can tease you for it. But we weren't really angry, but they took the piss. They would have, they would have teased you.

• 1:01:20Jefferson Fisher?

  For sure. Oh, they did. It was definitely, it was more endearing, I think, than, like, it was not a, it was not a serious, serious thing. But I do feel like, um- At least what I heard Australians like to to kind of roast and rib each other a lot.

• 1:01:35Speaker 01

  Banter.

• 1:01:36Jefferson Fisher?

  There was like, there was a lot of that.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Everywhere I went.

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  We, we did it this morning, just before the podcast.

• 1:01:42Jefferson Fisher?

  That's true.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  We have to get out of that.

• 1:01:43Jefferson Fisher?

  We did, we had like a solid half hour.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Half hour of just roasting.

• 1:01:46Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  And while you were roasting coffee for us, you were teasing you, you were teasing us. But you, you shot back.

• 1:01:52Jefferson Fisher?

  For sure.

• 1:01:52Speaker 01

  You got us back. It was good.

• 1:01:53Jefferson Fisher?

  You got to.

• 1:01:54Speaker 01

  And that's when we went, it's a good bloke. That's a real human.

• 1:01:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:59Speaker 01

  We love that. We absolutely love that.

• 1:02:01Jefferson Fisher?

  I feel, I, I definitely, I definitely felt that while we were there of, I think they're having a good time kind of roasting me, but that's, that's the playful like banter. If somebody can do that well, that's kind of how it is.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  And I think that's such a valuable part of communication. I like, don't always do that. Otherwise it's annoying, right? Because there was a period of my life where anytime anyone wanted to have a deep conversation with me, I naturally deflect with humor, deflect with humor, deflect with humor.

• 1:02:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  And, and that becomes really difficult to connect with somebody too.

• 1:02:34Speaker 01

  But then does that mean you should never do that? I, I, I don't believe so. I think that is such a wonderful skill. Because when you can go from speaking about something really deep, and you probably noticed this on your tour, where you, you go to the depths with the audience, where maybe someone's asked a question about bullying, right? And then I've seen you do this in your videos, where then you, you go, they should call me. Right? And then boom, they got that laughter.

• 1:02:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:02:57Speaker 01

  So when you can go to the depths with someone and then laugh at the same time, it's like that quote people say, when you talk about sad things, it's like looking at the sun. You, you can't look at it the whole time.

• 1:03:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Otherwise everything, you go blind, right?

• 1:03:09Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  But we need to do that and then we need to look away. We need to have breaks from that. And I saw you do that beautifully, you know, through your videos. I was like, oh, that is so, that is just elite. Because when we can laugh and cry together.

• 1:03:23Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:23Speaker 01

  We create a trust to be able to then go deeper. Whereas I feel that if you're always just heavy all the time.

• 1:03:31Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:32Speaker 01

  Uh, it, it, it, it, it feels bad to say, but it becomes exhausting.

• 1:03:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah. It's kind of like a.

• 1:03:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:39Jefferson Fisher?

  What do you all call them? Sea sauce?

• 1:03:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, sea sauce.

• 1:03:41Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay, yeah, we have.

• 1:03:42Speaker 01

  What do you, what do you call it?

• 1:03:43Jefferson Fisher?

  No, we call them sea sauce. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. I need to check every time we say something of like.

• 1:03:49Speaker 01

  We call it, we call it a saucy.

• 1:03:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, exactly. It is flipped upside down. Is, there is a balance definitely to, can you keep it? Have a little bit of levity, a little bit light and also a little bit of seriousness. But the person who is able to give just a little bit of toss to the conversation, to have a little bit of humor, it takes on a totally. I, I think people go, okay, he's, he knows how to kind of keep the, the temperature.

• 1:04:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Right. It's not too hot. It's not too cold. It's, it is a comfortable.

• 1:04:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:04:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Temperature for, for the room.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  And it's a beautiful mix. They go so well together. And then from, from a pragmatic standpoint, people might think, oh, but I'm not funny. Or is, that lightness is not about you being a standup comedian. That's one of the hardest things to do in the world.

• 1:04:35Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:35Speaker 01

  We're not, we're not saying to do that. It's just in the way you were using your voice. It's in the facial expression that you had. That alone can be lightness in a place that sometimes can be quite heavy. So, so just the shifting of how you use your voice.

• 1:04:49Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Communicates that lightness.

• 1:04:51Jefferson Fisher?

  What I've noticed about you, and I like this because your boys are here, all 38 of them. Okay. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I know there's six. Is.

• 1:05:01Speaker 01

  It'd be concerning.

• 1:05:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Exactly.

• 1:05:04Jefferson Fisher?

  Is how often?

• 1:05:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:05:06Jefferson Fisher?

  How much you use your hands.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:05:08Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay. You love this one right here.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  Oh, that's an Italian.

• 1:05:11Jefferson Fisher?

  You do a lot of this. So you'll.

• 1:05:13Speaker 01

  Cause I've got an Italian on the team.

• 1:05:15Jefferson Fisher?

  Is that what it is?

• 1:05:15Speaker 01

  That's it. I've got an Italian on the team.

• 1:05:16Jefferson Fisher?

  And so, but what you, I've noticed you like to use that when you're going up.

• 1:05:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:22Jefferson Fisher?

  On something and what you see, right, right? And so it's like, it's you over the.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  Ah.

• 1:05:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Or the heel of the thing, or a lot of these, right?

• 1:05:32Speaker 01

  Oh, no, that's got me. I didn't realize.

• 1:05:33Jefferson Fisher?

  So there's, there is a lot of this and most people don't.

• 1:05:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:40Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay. Which I think makes you a better communicator in that way.

• 1:05:43Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:05:43Jefferson Fisher?

  And I'm curious, when did this start for you?

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  Started around the time I hired an Italian.

• 1:05:52Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:53Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, right, right. Oh, let me tell you real quick, the video I love that you did.

• 1:05:58Jefferson Fisher?

  I forgot, maybe it was Jay's podcast or something that you said, and all of a sudden, like a million times.

• 1:06:03Speaker 01

  Thirty nine times.

• 1:06:05Jefferson Fisher?

  I was cracking up so much.

• 1:06:09Speaker 01

  Dude, it was crazy. And then for this one, I, cause I did with Jay again.

• 1:06:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:13Speaker 01

  I was freaking out.

• 1:06:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Speaker 01

  I just like, don't, don't say it, don't say it. And then he did it.

• 1:06:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:17Speaker 01

  But I did it. I was like, oh no, Jay, you're still there.

• 1:06:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh no.

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Oh, oh no.

• 1:06:24Speaker 01

  Star jumps, star jumps.

• 1:06:26Jefferson Fisher?

  And so I've, uh, I'm curious, because I, and I have those phrases too, where I don't realize.

• 1:06:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:32Jefferson Fisher?

  I'm, okay, I'm, I'm saying the same thing. Because there is a, a way to do podcasting. Well, it's a different format. And I'm curious where you really got a lot of these hand motions. Cause they're more exaggerated than I'd say most other communicators. And I imagine this is not the way you communicate to your wife, for your kids.

• 1:06:52Speaker 01

  She, she always just says, just turn it down.

• 1:06:54Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, can you just, can you just? Right. And so, well, I'm, did it start when you, cause I know your background is magic and showmanship and like, is that where all of this like came?

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:07:06Jefferson Fisher?

  From? Okay.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Because, and thank you for, for knowing that. That's special.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Magicians get taught elegance. So we, we, when you first perform magic and you're performing card tricks, you're, because you're, you're new to the movements, your, your hands are really clunky. So you're doing the movement and it's just really awkward. Like you're using your hands, but your shoulders get in on.

• 1:07:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  You're like, what am I doing? So when you learn this, your mentors teach you very early on, no, no, no, it's elegance. So we get taught these exercises in the world of magic to develop more elegance with our hands. So, so what you're seeing is a result of 10 years of obsessiveness with magic.

• 1:07:43Jefferson Fisher?

  All right.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  You are seeing that. You see that. So it's just.

• 1:07:45Jefferson Fisher?

  It's like the sleight of hand, like being able to practice that.

• 1:07:49Speaker 01

  That helped me increase my gesture vocabulary.

• 1:07:51Jefferson Fisher?

  Yes.

• 1:07:52Speaker 01

  So I think of words as something we try to become more accurate with when we're communicating.

• 1:07:57Jefferson Fisher?

  There's other, you love this, this right here.

• 1:08:00Speaker 01

  Oh, you're noticing this. This is from the drinking days.

• 1:08:02Jefferson Fisher?

  Right, yeah, yeah.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  But outward to don't drink, don't drink.

• 1:08:06Jefferson Fisher?

  And then you'll take it and then you kind of like grab your word.

• 1:08:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:09Jefferson Fisher?

  So you'll frame the word.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Then you grab the word and then you put it to the side.

• 1:08:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. And then we'll come back to it.

• 1:08:14Jefferson Fisher?

  Exactly.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  And I'll grab it and we'll talk about it again.

• 1:08:16Jefferson Fisher?

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:08:17Speaker 01

  Put it front of center.

• 1:08:17Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:08:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:18Jefferson Fisher?

  Which you do.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  And then we dissolve it.

• 1:08:20Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:20Speaker 01

  We dissolve and then we bring it back.

• 1:08:21Jefferson Fisher?

  And then we, and then we start, start jumping. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so.

• 1:08:25Speaker 01

  Well, because i- in magic, sometimes you're not speaking. Sometimes your hands are doing the talking because it's doing the magic. So then, so then I learned through that journey that right.

• 1:08:38Jefferson Fisher?

  I love it.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  What I learned is that your hands create visual clarity when you're speaking. Whereas I, I could, I could have said the whole thing. I could have said, uh, through the world of magic, I learned the importance of having a larger gesture vocabulary. And then I realized it created more clarity when I was talking.

• 1:08:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:55Speaker 01

  Whereas now I can say, in the world of magic, when I was learning sleight of hand.

• 1:08:58Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:59Speaker 01

  I realized I could get more clarity.

• 1:09:01Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Speaker 01

  When I speak. So this is a visual form of clarity.

• 1:09:03Jefferson Fisher?

  I love it. And it's like, what's behind your ear?

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:07Speaker 01

  I wish I did that. I wish I did that. Slice of pizza. Amazing.

• 1:09:12Jefferson Fisher?

  That would have been incredible.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  That would have been crazy.

• 1:09:14Jefferson Fisher?

  If you had pulled something behind my ear, man, I would have lost it. That would have, that would have.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Oh, what's that?

• 1:09:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh, it's a star jump.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, it's a.

• 1:09:22Jefferson Fisher?

  The price is.

• 1:09:22Speaker 01

  It's a star jump. It's amazing.

• 1:09:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, I, I, and I would say you were better at that than anybody I know in terms of the hand cues.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  You're making me really self-conscious about it now.

• 1:09:34Jefferson Fisher?

  Cause I feel like everything I do. That's the whole goal of this. You don't know this, but I told them, the whole thing of this podcast is, let me just make you rethink the rest of your life of how you use your hands. Because I know like at home, right? When, when, uh, with Xander or Melody and you're, you're. Because I do, and the thing, I do too, right?

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're great at it too.

• 1:09:56Jefferson Fisher?

  I have, I have, I have a trial voice. I have a trial voice, our courtroom voice. And, uh, we also, we have different speaking voices. And I know that when I go back into the car, I'm, and I have my kids with me, I'm not going to be nearly as dynamic with my voice or I, you kind of have to. I don't know. I've always visually seen it as like a, a kind of like a coat. Like I'm, I'm not going to wear a coat in the house. And there's already a roof. Like I can, I can rest my voice here and there's certain. I need to, my home needs the calmness and stability that my voice has. Not the, how can I most dynamic, dynamically deliver something?

• 1:10:40Jefferson Fisher?

  And so I was curious, you know, at home, how do you kind of take off your coat and, and hang it and be dad?

• 1:10:46Speaker 01

  Well, it's interesting because we, we, we play many different roles.

• 1:10:50Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:50Speaker 01

  Well, one of the reasons, I almost named the book something different, but then it didn't make sense to people. And I was like, ah, this is gonna be weird, but I love calling all of my programs stage. And the reason I love calling them stage is because I love that quote from Shakespeare who says, all the world's a stage.

• 1:11:07Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:11:07Speaker 01

  All the world's a stage. And I, I, I agree with that because every morning when I wake up, the first stage that I step onto, the first role that I play is husband. Wife loves me to make her a coffee in the morning, even though it's terrible. She makes it better, but for some reason it tastes good when I make it.

• 1:11:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  So I make it.

• 1:11:22Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:23Speaker 01

  She loves that, right? Then I step onto the stage as dad and I play a slightly different role there. Dad in the morning brings the energy. I put on seventies music because he's always so happy, happy go lucky. And I'm, I'm very different with them. And then I, I step into the studio and then I teach my students. Now I'm kind of stepping on a different stage again. I'm a teacher and I'm different there. I have to use my instrument.

• 1:11:43Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:11:43Speaker 01

  Because I'm modeling for them what they can do. So when I think of it in that frame, uh, frame, then I do, that's different.

• 1:11:52Jefferson Fisher?

  That's, that's over something.

• 1:11:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. This is the frame.

• 1:11:54Jefferson Fisher?

  I got it. Yeah.

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  You got, you got to be quicker.

• 1:11:56Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:57Speaker 01

  And then when I, when I think about it through that frame, that helps me then get, right? I can use my instrument differently on different stages.

• 1:12:05Jefferson Fisher?

  Okay.

• 1:12:05Speaker 01

  It just gives me that permission, whereas I would have originally, originally been stopped by the whole, oh, but then are you being fake?

• 1:12:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:12Speaker 01

  Are you being phony?

• 1:12:13Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:12:14Speaker 01

  Well, well, no, I'm adapting how I play my music for a different audience. Because my wife loves a softer version of it.

• 1:12:21Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, she likes smooth jazz.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, she loves, yeah, she loves that smooth jazz.

• 1:12:25Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  You know, every now and then she, she likes a nice ballad.

• 1:12:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:12:28Speaker 01

  All right. A nice ballad.

• 1:12:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:29Speaker 01

  And where she doesn't enjoy, if I spoke to her like this and I'm being playful and I'm, she's just like,

• 1:12:36Speaker 01

  this is an Instagram life.

• 1:12:37Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:38Speaker 01

  Don't do that.

• 1:12:39Jefferson Fisher?

  And I think that's, I think that is a great point because.

• 1:12:45Jefferson Fisher?

  What does that mean for the people listening? It means when you hear us talking about different ways to communicate, that does not mean that becomes how you communicate in every situation and for every person you talk to.

• 1:12:58Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:12:58Jefferson Fisher?

  We talk to our grandparents differently than we talk to somebody that we're helping communicate with. Every, every one has a different role. So that doesn't mean you have to be loud and dynamic in every situation. But you don't, you do need to know, I guess to keep with my metaphor, where that coat is and when to put it on.

• 1:13:21Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:13:22Jefferson Fisher?

  And because each one has a stage to be on.

• 1:13:26Speaker 01

  And you've got a different role that you play in different areas of your life. So you've got different coats, you've got different costumes. You've got different costumes, right? Just to stick with your metaphor. And I think the problem is when you wear the same coat in every single situation. And then you'll hear problems come up like, so say the person is really good at communicating with their kids. Very playful, very warm, beautiful, right? But that's how they play when they're in an intense, high stakes conversation with a client. And then they go, I don't know why people don't take me seriously.

• 1:13:55Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:13:56Speaker 01

  You're, well, it's because you, you, you have the clown suit on.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Right? But like, that's how I see it, right? They go, because and then, and then I have the opposite problem. Some men come to me and they say, I don't know why people find me so like, why can't they connect? Why aren't they vulnerable with me? I'm like, do you know what role you're playing right now, even as you're telling me that?

• 1:14:16Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:16Speaker 01

  Wrong coat, wrong genre of music.

• 1:14:19Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:20Speaker 01

  Switch the gears. And you find that the reason why people do this is because they stick to one default, because they have no range.

• 1:14:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  So if you don't have range with the way you use your body language or your voice, then you're stuck with one genre. Imagine listening only to jazz your entire, look, that's quite, it's quite fun jazz. But if you only had access to that your entire life, sorry, I know what I'm doing.

• 1:14:42Jefferson Fisher?

  That was good.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  It's good, it's good. But like, and if you, it becomes boring.

• 1:14:47Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:47Speaker 01

  And it only becomes effective in moments where jazz is great. So you might only be effective in 10% of your life. And then you confuse that, oh, it's great in that 10%, so it'll be great in the other 90%.

• 1:15:00Jefferson Fisher?

  I love how we're comparing it to music.

• 1:15:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, I love music.

• 1:15:03Jefferson Fisher?

  I do too. And I often will say if somebody's kind of going about it the wrong way, I'll be like, you're stomping on the keys.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Hey, there you go.

• 1:15:10Jefferson Fisher?

  Because they're just, you know, they're not really trying to play the, the notes. And if you can just stay in that middle C, people will like to listen to it a whole lot better than if you're way down in the, the lower octaves or, or higher ones. And one thing I have to say, one thing you told me, this is, I think this is in one of our first phone calls, is

• 1:15:32Jefferson Fisher?

  you, you said that you're like, one of the things I love about us is that I teach people how to play their instrument. And you tell them what chords to play.

• 1:15:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. And you write the notes.

• 1:15:45Jefferson Fisher?

  And yeah, and I was like, man, that is so good. Because that was a beautiful illustration of one saying, hey, he understands music too, and I love music. And I thought that was such a great compliment to the kind of work and mission that, that we're on and how beautiful it is.

• 1:16:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:04Jefferson Fisher?

  That you're kind of getting to travel with your band here.

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:07Jefferson Fisher?

  And play some music podcast to podcast, which it just sings awesome, man.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  And I'm learning so much from you because you, you teach me the right notes. Because often when people ask me questions, even on podcasts, I refer them to you. Cause I, I say that, hey, there's, there's a great, there's a great musician who writes really, really well. Right? I'll teach you how to play his notes.

• 1:16:28Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:29Speaker 01

  Right? I'll teach you how to play his notes. And I love that we're starting to see the intersection between what we do together.

• 1:16:33Jefferson Fisher?

  Right.

• 1:16:33Speaker 01

  Because even like we said before with the confidence thing, if your phrases are confident and more assertive, play them confidently, pair it with looking more, oh gosh.

• 1:16:42Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:42Speaker 01

  You become a different person.

• 1:16:44Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah, altogether, yeah.

• 1:16:45Speaker 01

  You become a different person. And, and I think there's, there's a sentence I love to, to always say to my students and to the listeners of your podcast. And it's, don't be so attached to who you are in the present, that you don't give the future version of you a chance. There's a future version of you that is confident, charismatic, that is kind, compassionate, but at the same time assertive when they need to be. That can play all the genres of music.

• 1:17:11Jefferson Fisher?

  Yeah.

• 1:17:11Speaker 01

  You've got slow jam, you've got techno, probably a little weird conversational. You've got all of it. You can, you can reach all of it. And, and I just think people really have so much music trapped inside of them. It's time to learn the instrument. It's time to learn the notes.

• 1:17:26Jefferson Fisher?

  So true.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  It's time to play.

• 1:17:27Jefferson Fisher?

  Man, that's beautiful.

• 1:17:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:29Jefferson Fisher?

  Thanks, Finn. Before we forget how to connect, be heard, seen and communicate with confidence. This is going to help so many people. I love how you laid it out. I love how you talk about the undercurrents.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:41Jefferson Fisher?

  That I, I like that word.

• 1:17:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too.

• 1:17:45Jefferson Fisher?

  It's just, it's laid out really well and goes all into how do you improve your, your melody, the tonality of your voice? What does it mean to, to kind of take your, your vocal range through some yoga and stretch it out? Get it a little bit more, more limber. Thanks for, for coming in and spending some time with me here in the U.S.

• 1:18:05Speaker 01

  Thank you so much. Thanks for connecting. Thanks for laughing with me. Thanks for playing. And thanks for taking it to places that felt really emotional too.

• 1:18:12Jefferson Fisher?

  Oh mate, you're welcome.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:16Speaker 01

  I'm going to try texting one. It's, howdy friend. Thanks for taking me on this ride. Was that offensive? Did I just offend, did I just offend everybody?

• 1:18:25Jefferson Fisher?

  I think you, you offended the entire country of Texas, dude. That's what you said. That's you did. I'll give you, I'll give you.

• 1:18:33Speaker 01

  I thought that was good.

• 1:18:34Jefferson Fisher?

  You will say, howdy?

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  Howdy.

• 1:18:37Jefferson Fisher?

  There you go. That's better.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Howdy.

• 1:18:38Jefferson Fisher?

  Now, if you want to, if you want to tweak that word, right? And have a little depth to it.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:18:44Jefferson Fisher?

  What you want to do is just change it to, howdy.

• 1:18:48Speaker 01

  Howdy?

• 1:18:49Jefferson Fisher?

  It almost is fast. Instead of like, it's not a full like howl de.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  Oh, okay.

• 1:18:54Jefferson Fisher?

  It'll be like, howdy.

• 1:18:55Speaker 01

  Howdy.

• 1:18:56Jefferson Fisher?

  There you go.

• 1:18:56Speaker 01

  Howdy y'all.

• 1:18:57Jefferson Fisher?

  There you go. Much better, much better.

• 1:18:59Speaker 01

  Oh, wow. You see that?

• 1:19:00Jefferson Fisher?

  That was awesome.

• 1:19:01Speaker 01

  You're amazing.

• 1:19:02Jefferson Fisher?

  That was great. That was great. Thanks for that.

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  Thanks, man.