Money Loves Speed, but Wealth Loves Time | Sharran Srivatsaa

Sharran Srivatsaa, CEO and managing partner of Acquisition.com alongside Alex and Layla Hormozi, is a former Goldman Sachs and Credit Suisse investment banker with a Vanderbilt University MBA and former professional tennis coach to Richard Branson and Bill and Melinda Gates. He discusses frameworks including the Four Money Monsters, Four Goods, Wealth Ladder, Golden Stairways, TIGA, and the 70/20/10 Rule, referencing Rich Dad Poor Dad and Vanguard ETFs VOO and VNQ.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Lewis Howes?

  Everywhere I go, airports, events, walking down the street, people stop me and say, Louis, this show got me through one of the hardest seasons of my life. And it's one of the coolest things when people come up to me. So if you see me, please come up and say hi and let me know how this show, The School of Greatness, has impacted you. It lights me up because our mission at Greatness Media is to impact 100 million lives every single week. So if today's conversation hits home for you, do me a favor and push the follow button right now. It means that the next conversation will be delivered to you and we'll find you exactly when you need it. Again, thank you so much for being here and listening to The School of Greatness. Make sure to follow right now to stay up to date on the latest and greatest.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  When I first met Alex Hermosy, he was in the process of selling his business. And so in my first conversation with Alex, we talked for four hours and he showed me everything. Eight years later, I'm the CEO of that business. Fastest way to get in great rapport with people is to give them the gift of going second and actually share on the money side because it's the most vulnerable thing. And it allows you to get deeper in the conversation.

• 1:09Lewis Howes?

  He's the CEO and managing partner of Acquisition.com alongside Alex and Leila Hermosy. Today's guest is Sharran Shribhatza. He's going to break down the laws of money and what you need to start thinking about right now to make money easier for you. What were the greatest lessons you learned about teaching tennis to billionaires and celebrities?

• 1:26Speaker 01

  The amount of risk that we can take is based on how much pain we can handle as well. I think it's really sad that people are being taught that debt is bad. Everything runs on the access to money overall. So the fact that we have to go cut up our credit cards, that's like saying, don't ever drive again.

• 1:46Lewis Howes?

  What is the money framework you wish everyone knew sooner?

• 1:50Speaker 01

  I think it's evolved over time. In my twenties, I thought it was about...

• 1:57Lewis Howes?

  You grew up in not around the most wealth in the world, right? You grew up without, in kind of a middle, lower class environment financially. And I'm curious, now that you've been a part of multiple billion dollar companies, were the rules of money that you learned growing up much different than they are today? Were there certain rules that you thought of that money is about one thing? That now that you've learned, it's a much different thing?

• 2:28Speaker 01

  I think that's a natural evolution, right? Because money is tied so much to the environment that you're in. If you take someone that grew up middle class versus someone that grew up wealthy, why does the wealthy person believe they're, that they can achieve more? Because they just see that other people have achieved more. I think there's such an environmental effect to money overall. And I never realized that growing up. All I thought was the greatest thing would be for me to come to the US and at some point make a hundred thousand dollars a year. My dad sold his scooter to get me a plane ticket. My parents sold everything that they had to send me to the US.

• 3:10Speaker 01

  And at the airport, I remember my dad telling me, it's like, hopefully one day, when you're in the States, you can make a hundred thousand dollars a year.

• 3:16Lewis Howes?

  That was the dream.

• 3:17Speaker 01

  That was the dream. That was the, that was the upper limit. That was like, you need to hit that.

• 3:21Lewis Howes?

  You've made it.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Yes. And, but I also think there's some humility to that. Because you realize that the, the goal is not that far off. You, there is a line of sight to actually getting to that thing. And then, once you get there, you see where the next mountain is. Sometimes we, I have friends who have this, hey, I need to have a $55 million net worth before I'm 55. And I go, you, you have a minimum wage job. It's, you're so far removed from reality that you can't even see the next step in getting there. So yes, the dichotomy was definitely there, but that was what my dad said to me before I started that plan.

• 4:01Lewis Howes?

  What was your big belief system around money when you were growing up?

• 4:05Speaker 01

  That only, that rich people are evil. That if you had money, you probably got it by some kind of scam. If your family was wealthy, then you were wealthy. Everyone else could never become wealthy again. If you had, you may win the lottery, but you should keep trying. But all of us were just destined for a work hard, be mediocre life.

• 4:30Lewis Howes?

  Really? Who taught you those beliefs?

• 4:33Speaker 01

  I think it came from the general environment because that's all, that's all that I saw.

• 4:36Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 4:37Speaker 01

  And I saw my parents work so hard to make ends meet. And we lived in a one bedroom apartment. I remember sleeping with my parents in the same bed till I was 15 years old. And I knew no different life. And looking back, that feels strange, but that is the only life that you know.

• 4:55Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it felt normal for you at the time. Yeah. And how old were you when you moved to the US?

• 4:59Speaker 01

  I was 16 when I came to the US.

• 5:01Lewis Howes?

  Wow. So how did your views around money change the moment you landed in the US from India?

• 5:09Speaker 01

  I'll tell you a crazy story.

• 5:12Speaker 01

  I landed in Chicago Airport and I was, had a ride that was supposed to pick me up.

• 5:18Speaker 01

  And I waited in the airport. It took one hour, two hours, three hours. This was before there were cell phones. And my name got called on the public address system. It says, Sharran Shribhatza, please report to a white courtesy phone. So I was like, this is not fun on your first day in the US. So I go answer the phone and it says, hey, your ride, his car broke down. So he wants you to take a bus and meet him in Moline, Illinois.

• 5:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 5:44Speaker 01

  I had no idea where Moline...

• 5:46Lewis Howes?

  Like an hour away?

• 5:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:47Lewis Howes?

  It's kind of far. Yeah, I've been there.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  So I was like, sure. So I grabbed my bag and I left the airport and I figured out where I needed to go, grabbed the bus and I jumped on this bus to go to Moline, Illinois. But we were, it was supposed to be an hour, hour and a half away. And hour goes by, two hours go by, three hours go by. Finally, it's dark and we pull into a bus depot and I'm the only one on the bus. And the bus driver comes up to me and says, hey kid, where are you headed? And I said, Moline, Illinois. And he goes, well, we are in La Crosse, Wisconsin.

• 6:15Lewis Howes?

  Oh, wow.

• 6:16Speaker 01

  So I'm in a completely different state. I don't know anything about the geography of where I am. He says, well, if I were you, I would get in, rest for the night and figure out what you're going to do the next day.

• 6:25Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:26Speaker 01

  And I didn't have a lot of money. I had a hundred dollars in my pocket, maybe some loose change, tennis rockets in a bag, and that's it. So I grabbed my stuff and jumped out of the bus. And out of nowhere, this guy jumped, this guy with the hoodie jumped on and pulls a knife on me.

• 6:39Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:40Speaker 01

  So this is seven hours in the US, I get a knife pulled...

• 6:42Lewis Howes?

  You're 16, you're alone.

• 6:43Speaker 01

  I get my knife pulled on me and he says, um, it's like, give me everything. So I just handed my bag and he starts to rummage through my stuff. And then he says, you're like the worst person I ever mugged. And I go, what do you mean? How many, how many times do you do this? Then I was afraid for my life because the last thing I wanted was to me bleed out in La Crosse, Wisconsin. My parents not know what had happened. So I pulled a hundred dollar bill out of my wallet. I mean, and I said, hey, I have a hundred dollars.

• 7:10Speaker 01

  And I'm trying to get to school. If I gave you this hundred, would you give me 50 back? And he looked at me weird and he opened up his ratty wallet and he dishes me out a 20, a 20 and a 5, grabs the hundred and walks away. And if you put me in that situation...

• 7:27Lewis Howes?

  He's shortchanging you five bucks.

• 7:30Speaker 01

  But if you put me in that situation today, I would not have tried to negotiate with their mother.

• 7:34Lewis Howes?

  Take the money.

• 7:35Speaker 01

  Take the money.

• 7:35Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 01

  And I think that when you're put in tough situations, you start to figure out how to negotiate your way out of things. And I think that was the big mindset, which is, wow, if that was the lowest of low I could go and I could still find a way to have a conversation, human to human with somebody, because I knew that he didn't want to hurt me in any way. I think even in the tightest of money situations, the tightest of life situations, there's probably a conversation to be had. And that probably changed. That was, that was a low. That probably changed a lot of things.

• 8:05Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So when did your beliefs around money start to change? Like, how old were you? When do you start to notice that money wasn't like the root of all evil? Or people that had money were bad? When did that shift?

• 8:17Speaker 01

  When I graduated, I graduated from college with a computer science and math degree. This was during the technology boom. And I was an early engineer in a startup. And we raised 27 and a half million dollars. And that company, the company got bought for $550 million. And so I thought as an early employee, I was supposed to get a big fat steak, just shy of $50 million.

• 8:39Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 8:40Speaker 01

  And this was before we had mobile phones and apps, et cetera. So the only way you could check your balance was to go to a Bank of America ATM and hit receipt and it will tell you your balance. So we were supposed to get our wire that day and I went and got my wire. And I looked at the account and it was a whole zero off. I was like, this can't be right. I thought I was going to get a lot more than this and I would have made it. So I called the CEO of the business and I said, could you help me understand why this is $4.97 million, not $47 million? He says, well, you have something called a ratchet. And a ratchet is a massive dilution based on how this acquisition...

• 9:20Speaker 01

  My, all my rules around money changed when I realized that everything was a contract. Everything was structural. If you did not speak the language of money, you're probably not going to make a lot of it. And that was the big shift for me. It was not a, did someone tell me something or me see the world differently? I just realized that I got a 10x cram down on what I was going to get. And that was because of a contractual issue that I did not know how to read. And that was the entire reason why I decided to go to business school. It was the entire reason why I decided to go to Wall Street. Just learn that thing because if I, if I learned how the contractual aspects of money work, because everything's a contract. And when you learn that, things get out significantly easier.

• 10:04Lewis Howes?

  Interesting. So how old were you when that exit happened?

• 10:07Speaker 01

  21.

• 10:07Lewis Howes?

  21. That's pretty young.

• 10:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:10Lewis Howes?

  Man, so from 16 to 21, five years, you were, you know, had no money, a hundred bucks into, I guess, a $5 million exit for you at the time, roughly. It's pretty good still.

• 10:19Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I got to pay off all my debt, buy my grandma's house and then decide to be like, well, what am I going to do with my life? And so I spent five years traveling the world and teaching tennis.

• 10:34Lewis Howes?

  And I got to... Were you a tennis pro or something or like on tour or something or?

• 10:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I played, I played pro tennis before. And then I did not know what I wanted to do with my life. So I was like, hey, I'll go travel and teach tennis. And I, I knew that money would last me for roughly five years. So I spent five years teaching tennis. I was in the Caribbean, Dubai and on Maui for five years. And taught tennis to Richard Branson, Alain Alda, Bill Mullin Gates, Michael J. Fox. It was fascinating experience.

• 10:59Lewis Howes?

  What were the greatest lessons you learned about teaching tennis to billionaires and celebrities?

• 11:05Speaker 01

  They are just like us. When you get them to doing raw things like working with their hands. Because on the tennis court with Richard Branson in Necker Island, I was better than him. He had paid me money to come teach him tennis. And I was going back and forth with him. I said, I have to ask this guy some advice. I'm here. I don't want to, but I don't want to be that guy. How do I?

• 11:29Lewis Howes?

  He's paying you to actually give him.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Do this. And so I actually asked him a question. I said, hey, you know, you've run so many companies you've done. You've done so many different things. How do you make decisions? And in Branson's own way, without having a single line of advice, he tells you like four stories. I said, this is so unhelpful that you gave me all this advice in the form of stories. And net, net, he said, if you don't have a framework for making decisions, you'll always get left behind. And that really stuck with me. And so I said, well, I need to come up with a framework for making decisions because you are the cumulative sum of all the decisions that you've made in your life. So if you don't have a framework for making the decisions, you probably should

• 12:14Speaker 01

  come up with once. I came up with a framework, which was uh, understand the context, isolate the issue, accept the risks and map the next steps. And so if you take any decision that you have to make and see your team comes to you, you say, I can we do this? You're like, hold on, back up. What are we talking about? Understand the context. The second, isolate the issue. So, so you want to do blank? Third is, okay, if we did blank, we probably can't do A, B and C, accept the risks. And the fourth is map the next steps, which is, all right. So if we're going to do that, we should do A, B, C, right? And so if now that's become a natural part of what I did. And so even though Branson gave me those four stories that were extremely unhelpful, at least it drove me down the path of saying, I probably should have some kind of framework

• 12:58Speaker 01

  for making decisions so that I don't do dumb things.

• 13:00Lewis Howes?

  Right. When did, so after five years of teaching tennis, you'd already made, you know, millions before then, and then you were on the road, kind of teaching tennis. When did you decide to get back into the business world again?

• 13:14Speaker 01

  Yeah. My mentor said to me, no one is going to hire a teaching pro. So you have to use the ultimate career switcher in the world, which is going to business school. And so I went to business school at Vanderbilt. And uh, because they had a really clear path for going from Vanderbilt to Wall Street. And so I got an MBA in Vanderbilt and then I was an investment banker at Goldman Sachs and a credit squeeze on Wall Street. The craziest story was I had thirty nine one-on-one interviews to get the job at Goldman. And this is not including dinners, lunches, informational interviews, this was thirty nine one-on-one interviews to get a job at Goldman. And of those, the craziest interview of those was I walk into this managing partner's office.

• 13:59Speaker 01

  And this was when the great financial crisis was happening. And he walks in frazzled with a briefcase and a, you know, a leather notebook and he sits down. He's like, you're a hot shot? I see hot shots like you all the time. He drops a notebook. He goes, that's my prospect list. Here, here, set me some appointments. And he pushes the book towards me and I'm, I have no idea what to do. So I grabbed the book. I look at it and it has Lewis Howes and a phone number on it. I said, would you like me to call that? He goes, yeah, send me an appointment. And I said, sir, I don't want to misrepresent you. Could you give me a script so I can actually have this conversation? He looks at me, he smiles, he wraps up the book.

• 14:43Speaker 01

  He stands up, he shakes my hand. He says, you'll do great kid. And he walks out. And so I see him at the cocktail party that night and I said, that should have gone really bad or really well. Like what happened? He says, I've interviewed, you know, MBA grads for the last twenty years. I do the same exact routine with all of them. Only two of you in the last twenty years have actually had enough humility to stop and say, give me script. So I can actually make the call on your behalf because you're not even allowed to make the call. You're not even licensed to call this person. But everyone wants to show off that they are brave enough.

• 15:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I'll do it. Yeah.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  And he's like, that taught me that you were coachable. And that was like a, I did it out of pure survival, but I came across this humility, I guess.

• 15:29Lewis Howes?

  Oh, that's cool. From all the things you've learned, um, you know, on Wall Street and building businesses, what are the seven laws of money that you think are the key to building wealth?

• 15:42Speaker 01

  Of all the seven laws, I think that there's one, single one that means so much to me. And that is money loves speed, but wealth loves time. I'll tell you a great story here in LA. I was running a real estate business not far from here in Beverly Hills. And I had access to so much deal flow from all these real estate agents. These real estate agents would come across a great deal and they say, hey, Sean, do you want to buy this? Hey, Sean, do you want to buy that? And I said, if I was getting all these deals, I should just spend all my time and all my money just buying this. I didn't even care about the business. I spend more, I get more kind of lucrative results just buying these deals. So for five years, I just flipped homes, Louis.

• 16:21Speaker 01

  So I would buy the deals and the agents would sell them. I'd buy the deals and the agents would sell them. I did roughly fifty flips a year, a flip a week for close to three to five years.

• 16:30Lewis Howes?

  So you weren't, you weren't rehabbing them or anything?

• 16:32Speaker 01

  I was rehabbing them.

• 16:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh, you were. Okay.

• 16:34Speaker 01

  So buy them, rehab them, put them on the market.

• 16:35Lewis Howes?

  Take a few months, rehab them, then put them on the market.

• 16:38Speaker 01

  And I did this over and over again. And from the outside looking in, it feels like, oh, that's a great idea. But when you have multiple going at a time, you're extremely cash strapped, but you make the money and then you recycle it. You make the money and you recycle it. But I was making the money. Money loves speed. But at the same time, I had a friend who had bought a duplex in Silver Lake. And then the markets went up. He traded that, he stayed in one unit and he rented the other unit out. Then he refied the duplex into a fourplex. Then he refied the fourplex into a twelveplex in the same amount of time that I had been doing these deals. And at the end, his net worth was five times that of mine.

• 17:17Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 17:18Speaker 01

  Five times. I had made the cash, paid the taxes, but I was always cash strapped. So I felt like this money loves speed, but wealth totally lost time. I don't know if you're familiar with the Arnold Schwarzenegger story. So Arnold got his first big role, Terminator, when he was thirty seven.

• 17:37Lewis Howes?

  Did he buy property in Santa Monica or something?

• 17:39Speaker 01

  But he was a millionaire when he was twenty five. He had twenty seven thousand five hundred dollars. His real estate agent told him that if you want the staying power of being in Hollywood, we need to give you time in this business so you can find the best role. So he took his first twenty seven thousand five hundred dollars. He bought a duplex. And that duplex grew. He got a fourplex. And the income from that is what allowed him to sustain and wait till he got the Terminator script. And now, and after that, he was able to become governor and do all the other things. So people don't realize that you want to make the fast buck. You want to make the affiliate commission. You want to make the crypto deal. You want to make whatever I can do super fast, but you don't realize that like wealth loves time.

• 18:17Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Okay. So that's one of your favorite laws. What are a few of the others?

• 18:24Speaker 01

  The, the thing that I think about often is where every money goal needs a money plan. Uh, most people just are like, hey, I want to, I want to buy a jet. Well, okay. If that is a money goal to actually get there, well, what is the money plan to getting there overall? Most people don't realize that if you can just say, if this is my goal, what are the steps that I need to do to get there? And, and I don't think the world teaches us that money goals are okay goals to have. The acceptance, you wrote this in your book, the acceptance that it's not wanting what you want. I always tell my friends, he's like, if you want a yellow Lambo, say you want a yellow Lambo. Don't say, I want a yellow Lambo because

• 19:08Speaker 01

  there's the because is, because is irrelevant. If you want the yellow Lambo, that's for you. Go ahead and have the yellow Lambo. But if you have a money goal, what is the money plan that allows you to, to get there? I think as soon as people realize that, hey, to do this, I have this plan, it allows them to actually put that plan into place. And I think that's such a big law because otherwise you're trying to do the secret or some kind of woo-woo or manifestation, which is fine, but

• 19:32Lewis Howes?

  You're still need a plan.

• 19:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 19:33Lewis Howes?

  You're still need a plan.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  The manifestation needs a plan at, at some point.

• 19:37Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So every money goal needs a money plan.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:40Lewis Howes?

  When did you learn that? Did you make a mistake? They were like, oh, I just had this goal, but I didn't really have the plan to go with it and I lost hot energy, money along the way. When did you learn that?

• 19:50Speaker 01

  My mentor of thirty years now is a real estate tycoon. He'd be walking around LA and you would not know who he is. And he had made so much wealth in real estate that I one day asked him, I said, there is no way I'm going to be able to do this. You've got to give me like some insight, some secret on how to do this. And then he said, he goes, hey, if you, um, if you don't have, you got to host the meal for this to happen. And I said, what do you, what do you mean? If you don't have, if you're not invited to the table, you have to host the meal. I don't understand what that means. Rich people say things and you have no idea what these things mean. They're like, follow your passion. I'm like, what does that mean? Right?

• 20:29Speaker 01

  And then, so what, so the next day I sent him a text message. I said, hey, I know you're doing these real estate flips. I know you hate doing them. I know they're so hard for you to do. What if I was able to do all the work, A to Z? Would you be open to sharing 10% of this deal with me? And he was an attorney, so he responded, write it up.

• 20:51Lewis Howes?

  This is your mentor?

• 20:51Speaker 01

  My mentor. And that was the first time I had a chance to actually have a, have a shot at owning something in LA. I would have never been able to own something in LA to put money down and buy a three million dollar house and then flip it. No, no way. And

• 21:08Speaker 01

  It's easy to say, well, sure on that's 10%. What could that have ever done? Well, he did 16 deals at 18 months. I got 10% of every deal for 18 months. And that was the money goal that I had, which was if I can't do this myself, who can I partner with to allow me to do that? And I would have never been able to create that wealth for myself at all. That was a huge switch for me.

• 21:33Lewis Howes?

  Really? How much did that bring you in 18 months for all those deals?

• 21:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, we sold a few of those, probably one to $2 million worth in 18 months. And I still own three or four of them right now.

• 21:45Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 21:45Speaker 01

  With 10 plus years later. And there were.

• 21:47Lewis Howes?

  A bit of a tash.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:48Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 21:49Speaker 01

  There was so much money and I didn't put any money down. And I did it all on kind of sweat equity.

• 21:54Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 21:55Speaker 01

  Wrote a check to be able to do that.

• 21:56Lewis Howes?

  Wow. Okay. So every money goal needs a money plan. How do you know? How to create the plan?

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Yeah. There is this big misnomer of financial freedom. If you, if you Google the topic of financial freedom, it goes everything from how to invest in your 401k to let's buy crypto, right? Like the range is everywhere. And I asked myself this question. What is financial freedom? And I realized that it was when you have to stop creating time for money. There's financial freedom, which is you wake up in the morning and you say, what would I like to do today? Because there's some other source of income that is covering your monthly expenses. So the definition I have is financial freedom is where your passive income is greater than your monthly expenses. Well, those are two really interesting definitions, passive income and monthly expenses. Well, we know what monthly expenses are.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  Say we're making $10,000 a month and those are your monthly expenses that are not changing. But what is passive income? Well, passive income is not a scam. Passive income is pre-funded income. Meaning it's either you actually have to pre-fund it with some effort. You have to pre-fund it with some money, effort. I am going to, you know, do all the work in my real estate company's deal. Or I'm going to build an affiliate product or I'm going to be a part of a network marketing organization. I'm going to do some effort upfront. So hopefully it'll pay me down the line somewhere else.

• 23:18Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 23:19Speaker 01

  Or I'm going to write a check on and buy a piece of real estate, just like Arnold Schwarzenegger did, and it's going to pay me. But the problem is most people don't know how to generate passive income. And they don't, they're like, no one's going to wake up in the morning and say, well, I'm going to send Luis $50,000 a month. You gotta do something.

• 23:33Lewis Howes?

  Right, right.

• 23:35Speaker 01

  But I think America has failed

• 23:40Speaker 01

  the hardest working people. Because they have said that you only have one road to retirement. And that is to put 3% in your 401k. And that 3% in your 401k has three people associated with it, which is you putting 3% in, which is your employer getting a deduction for, for matching it in some way. And then it's Wall Street for getting all the fees for 30 years sitting in that account. And I think the big question we all have to ask is for the average person working so hard. What if the 401k was not an option? How would they change and live their lives?

• 24:16Lewis Howes?

  If people weren't allowed to put money in their 401k, where should they be putting their money to create passive income long-term?

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Right, right. I think if that's the question that you ask, because now people are, they don't have to say, I'm going to wait till I'm 65 to retire. They see the definition of passive income is the financial freedom is passive income greater than monthly expenses. Let me do that today. And if they can do that, your entire world starts to change.

• 24:40Lewis Howes?

  So if you're coaching someone who's in their young twenties, what would you tell them to do?

• 24:44Speaker 01

  My son's 14.

• 24:45Lewis Howes?

  Okay, what do you tell him to do? Yeah, yeah.

• 24:47Speaker 01

  And he hears me have this conversation often. He says, Dad, I'm not going to be able to buy a company that pays me a dividend or gives me cash flow or a check every month. I'm not going to be able to buy a piece of real estate yet.

• 25:02Lewis Howes?

  Cause it doesn't have the money.

• 25:03Speaker 01

  Correct. And he says, what do you think I should do? So I think whatever applies to my 14-year-old probably applies to the others. And my advice to him is you still need to invest in the same asset class, which is there's what I call the golden stairways. There's only two ways in the modern world where you're guaranteed to make money. And that is investing in companies, investing in real estate. Nothing else exists. Did you know that 1%, the top 1% of the world own 40% of all stocks in the world?

• 25:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 25:38Speaker 01

  That is insane.

• 25:39Lewis Howes?

  That's crazy.

• 25:39Speaker 01

  Right? The, the Forbes 400 is littered with people that are business and real estate tycoons. The US real estate tax code is engineered for investors. And we don't think about that. We think about putting another 3% in our 401k. So I explained to my son, I said, if the golden stairways are companies and real estate, what should you invest in? He's like, companies and real estate. I said, yes. Well, let's start with that. Let's start with the Vanguard ETF, VLO, that owns the companies. And let's start with VNQ that owns real estate. And now he gets dividends from both of those because now he knows as he puts his $50 birthday contribution or whatever in this, he actually can see it invested in the right asset classes. And if not anything else, if he just started doing that over time,

• 26:24Speaker 01

  he'll start to realize that, wow, I'm still invested in this asset class, but I'm not getting the return right now. I call that a TIGA, a tiny income generating asset. Everybody wants the, the big apartment building, but they don't realize that you can just buy VNQ and still get, still be invested in North American real estate and get a piece of that.

• 26:42Lewis Howes?

  And you don't have to manage it. You don't have to deal with tenants. You don't have to deal with, you know, fixing stuff, right? It's like you're investing in a fund.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Right.

• 26:49Lewis Howes?

  That does that for you.

• 26:50Speaker 01

  At least when you start and then hopefully that number grows. And then he can say, wait, I have $100,000 in this over time. Now I'm going to take that and put it into a multifamily syndication. That makes perfect sense, but he's already invested in that asset class in some way. The, the crazy story of my son.

• 27:05Speaker 01

  Alex, Leila and I bought three apartment complexes at the end of last year. And my son's listening to this story in the car while I'm driving and negotiating the loans. And he says, Dad, this looks, sounds like a great deal. Can I invest in this? I said, sure, but where are you going to get the money? He says, well, I'll, I'll talk to the bank. I said, you're 14, but I appreciate the enthusiasm. And he's like, well, why wouldn't the bank lend me money? I said, well, you're under 18, but more importantly, they just don't trust you because you don't have a track record yet. He looks at me with these puppy eyes and says, do you trust me?

• 27:42Speaker 01

  And I said, I see where he's going with this. He says, oh, why would you not loan me the money? And so I said, well, I'll loan you a part of it. So I loaned him a part of it. He borrowed some from his life insurance policy. He conned his sister and saying that he would do chores for her.

• 27:59Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 27:59Speaker 01

  And, and or the responsibilities in the house. And, and he made his first investment by borrowing money from me and his life insurance policy and investing in the deal with us.

• 28:09Lewis Howes?

  That's pretty cool.

• 28:10Speaker 01

  It's amazing. Just but, and I think that goes to the environment of he was in the car.

• 28:14Lewis Howes?

  You heard it.

• 28:15Speaker 01

  Listening to me, negotiating the loans, talking about this. And so I think it opens up the possibilities of what is happening and what is possible in the world. I never had those growing up. I had no idea that you could do any of this. I just thought that the ultimate goal was to make $100,000 a year.

• 28:31Lewis Howes?

  Do you think someone in their twenties today, if they only invest in a 401k and they make no other investments in the stock market or real estate, do you think they can become financially free?

• 28:44Speaker 01

  I think it's very difficult. For two reasons. Reason number one is they are now defining financial freedom as this big nut that they are going to have at the end, when they're 65.

• 28:57Lewis Howes?

  40 years, whatever.

• 28:58Speaker 01

  Right. You have no idea what's going to happen between now and then.

• 29:01Lewis Howes?

  Or they get lucky in their, their job or they launch something that makes them a lot of money, maybe, right?

• 29:06Speaker 01

  We also have no idea what the tax code is going to be back then. The question becomes is, do you tax the seed or do you want to tax the harvest? And give you the craziest story. Just take, no one talks about just fees, right? Easy example. If you put a million dollars into just a straight S and P 500 today and you let it ride for 20 years, it roughly gives you $6.6 million. Awesome. That's at a 10% return. Well, if the advisors charge a 1% fee, so cut that return down to 9%, guess how much is paid in fees in that period?

• 29:45Lewis Howes?

  Oh, I don't know, probably a million bucks.

• 29:48Speaker 01

  A million dollars?

• 29:48Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 29:49Speaker 01

  You're right.

• 29:49Lewis Howes?

  Is that right?

• 29:50Speaker 01

  A million dollars.

• 29:51Lewis Howes?

  Oh, gosh.

• 29:52Speaker 01

  A million dollars. So if you, I was a banker at Goldman Sachs. This is one of the most crucial reasons why it broke my heart. Because that's why I think people struggle big time. Ask you a given crazier question.

• 30:04Lewis Howes?

  So how do you invest then? Or you minimize all those fees? Do you do it on your own? Do you find like a fund that has the minimal fees? Do you, you know, and especially if you know nothing about money.

• 30:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 30:15Lewis Howes?

  And you're like just starting, you don't want to make money mistakes.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:19Lewis Howes?

  How do you invest with minimal fees?

• 30:22Speaker 01

  Before we choose to invest in something, we have to figure out what type of investor we are. And that allows you to make a much better decision. So I believe that there are three types of investors. An active investor, thematic investor and a passive investor. All right, let's define them. Who's an active investor? Someone that wakes up in the morning and actually does this for their job, right? They're active real estate. That's all they're doing. They're not doing anything else. They're actively trading. They're actively working on crypto. They're actively working on real estate. That is their job. They're active investors. And I love active investors because they know that, like, you know, that is their work. Most of us are not active investors. Then you have thematic investors and thematic investors are essentially saying, hey, I believe that in the next 10 years, AI is going to do great. Therefore, I'm just going to make a bet on AI today. Hopefully the theme carries in the future and creates that result.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  I think most of us are thematic investors. I'm probably one, you're probably one. You have a bet of the future that you know that technology is probably going to be better in the next 10 years than it is today. So you're probably, you're okay handling the volatility over time. And the third one I struggled a lot with, which is who is a passive investor? And then I realized a passive investor is just somebody who invests in active investors. So you and I just say, hey, there's a multifamily syndication. You are going to go work on that.

• 31:34Lewis Howes?

  They're doing all the work.

• 31:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 31:35Lewis Howes?

  On investing you.

• 31:36Speaker 01

  I think the issue becomes.

• 31:37Lewis Howes?

  There's still a fee to that.

• 31:38Speaker 01

  Correct. The issue.

• 31:40Lewis Howes?

  There's a management fee, there's a this fee, there's a.

• 31:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, but that's okay because they are actively managing the asset. The issue becomes when, if it's passive for you and it's passive for John, it's passive for Lisa, it's passive for Jimmy, it's passive for everybody along the way. Who's actually doing the active work? So I always say, if it's passive for you, it has to be active for some, for someone else. The issue I have with all of this, especially the fees is imagine you were hiring a CFO for your company. Would you hire a CFO who was a fractional CFO that was also a CFO for 300 other companies?

• 32:16Lewis Howes?

  Probably not. I mean, it's

• 32:17Speaker 01

  Right?

• 32:18Lewis Howes?

  Spread thin. Yeah, yeah.

• 32:19Speaker 01

  But we do that with our financial advisors.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  He's a CFO for our family. Right. We have no problem working our tail off in our day to day work. And then we say, hey, Mr. Financial Advisor, you are, show me your track record of work with all these other people. How many families do you have? Three hundred? Sure, I'll be one out of three hundred of your attention. Managed by my. That is insane from a financial literacy perspective. We will go to seminars, we will do role play, we will hire coaches to get better at our active income. But we will take our entire nest egg and give it to somebody whose core attention is not on our nest egg.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  So what's the solution? The solution is first is to define financial freedom. Just so we feel a bit about this. Second is, I think our financial literacy needs to go up. There is no way, unless people start to read your book, watch the podcast, there's no way that people actually realize that they have to take control over their finances. You don't need to know everything, but you at least need to know enough to have a legitimate conversation with somebody overall. There's a great Charlie Munger quote where he says, it's all about being less stupid. You don't have to chase brilliance. And I thought about like, what does that mean? And that is, if you can just make fewer mistakes, you will, you probably don't have to chase the big returns. And I think these fewer mistakes come in four forms. I call them the four money monsters.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Number one is inflation is a massive drag on wealth creation. Most people don't realize that. They think that, oh, I'm just, I just have my money in my Bank of America account that makes zero point one percent. It feels safe. I can wake up in the morning and I can look at it and I feel better about myself. But they don't realize that $10,000 that's in their account today, at the end of the year, is worth significantly less than the $10,000. I remember this. I've been drinking the same coffee order from Starbucks. What's your order? It is a venti decaf Americano. Wow, venti, man, you're going big. Decaf, two pumps of sugar free vanilla.

• 34:22Speaker 01

  And How many calories is that? Oh, it's like 12. That's not bad. But from 2020, when they started, when I started using the app till today, I make the same exact order. How much have you spent? I don't know how much I've spent. I know what I spend every single day. So my order, every, every day today is three eighty, it's $3.85. When I actually started ordering it, it was a dollar eighty. Really? So in the last five and a half years, it's gone from a dollar eighty to three eighty five. Now,

• 34:50Speaker 01

  inflation is a silent tax on purchasing power. It is, you pay more for the same coffee. That's what it is. And what people don't realize is that they just think that a $10,000 is their $10,000. And they just don't even think about putting in simple things like a high yield savings account or something like, just to manage inflation. Yeah. If we just manage inflation. Three percent, right? It's like, yeah. Right. If you're keeping cash, from a tactical perspective, there is a

• 35:16Speaker 01

  security called TIPS. And I don't know if you're familiar, it's called Treasury Inflation Protection Securities. And all it does is

• 35:23Speaker 01

  most

• 35:25Speaker 01

  treasury bonds, they pay out a certain interest rate. What TIPS does is it actually takes the interest rate and ties it to the CPI, ties it to inflation. So based on what inflation changes, it pays you that as the interest rate. So worst case scenario, what most Americans should do is if they don't at least put it in their high yield savings account, they should just put it in TIPS. And you can go buy TIP, which is the ETF, and it'll at least keep place with inflation. So number one money monster is, is managing inflation. Okay. Second money monster is taxes. Taxes are the number one draw, drag on wealth creation. And if you think about it for us,

• 36:03Speaker 01

  we are very brave souls that live in the great state of California. Cause we spend so much on tax. Man, you take the 37%, then you add another 13%, then you add whatever else you need to add to it. But the, what people don't realize is they'll chase a 7% return in the market, but they won't learn the tax code to just reduce their, the taxable income. Are we dumb, are dumb for living in California? Based on a tax standpoint? Yes.

• 36:32Speaker 01

  But, but you wake up in the morning. It's just joy, right? It's just joy. The crazier part is this. Did you know that there's roughly 5,700, 5,800 pages in the US tax code? Of which only 30 pages actually explain what taxes to pay. Wow. 5,770 pages of the US tax code explain how you could avoid taxes. We just don't spend any time doing that. And I think that's the problem. Now, there's no way that someone's going to go with the US tax code and leave it on their nightstand and, and read about it. That, that makes no sense. But the switch that I found loose was that most of us have CPAs and tax advisors. They are tax preparers. They just want to make sure that our taxes get filed.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  Tax strategists are somebody completely different. Yeah. And in today's world with AI, you can ask, you can upload your documents, you can say, hey, where are my tax savings? Rummage through the tax code, find me the deductions. You can do so much more related to that. And a, a 1% savings in taxes is an instant 1% drop to the bottom line. You don't have to go then create a 1% return in the market. You've already made that overall, which I think is amazing. So the third is interruption. Hardworking families work, work and then put their money to work and then they get stressed reading the headlines. They're like, wow, straight up Hormuz. Wow, there's a, there's a war here. Take my money out. Take my money out.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  I'll, I'll put it back in when it's okay. I take my money out and they just interrupt their growth. And the interruption, there's only 12 days in a year on average that if you miss those 12 days, you lose the entire return for the year, but you have no idea what those 12 days are. So you, you're better off leaving it in there and not interrupting it anyway. And the last one is fees. And you and I talked about a million dollars in fees going away. It's the entire principle sometimes. So if we can just, as Charlie Munger said, eliminate inflation and taxes, interruption and fees, you almost don't even have to create any returns in the market. This will create you more returns because it's not what you make, it's what you keep. Wow. Yeah, that's powerful.

• 38:42Speaker 01

  Four money monsters. I like that. It's the way to teach our children these things as your children, as your twins.

• 38:50Speaker 01

  I have my 10 year old who now say, oh dad, that's a money monster. Wow, that's cool. He's a cool remember.

• 38:55Lewis Howes?

  My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode. And the School of Greatness drops new conversations every Monday, Wednesday and Friday around money, mindset, healing, manifestation and relationships. And if you're not yet following the show, then you're missing all of them. Please tap the follow button right now and you'll get notified the moment every new episode drops because the next one might be exactly what you need. Now let's get back to the conversation.

• 39:23Speaker 01

  What's another law of money that you learned, uh, once you came to America?

• 39:29Speaker 01

  There was, um, I'll tell you a crazy story.

• 39:33Speaker 01

  My first day when I got to college, I show up at financial services, I hand them my check. My dad had written a check for the entire school year of tuition and room board. And that's all my parents gave me. And they said, if you don't make it in a year, come back is, was their gift to me. So I handed it to them and the lady said, hey, this is a international check. It may take seven to 10 days to clear, but here are your dorm keys. But your meal plan will not activate for another seven to 10 days. So I'd already traded, I only had $45 back from the mugger, so I didn't have that much. And so I hit, I hit every rush party, I hit every student athlete party, I hit every pizza party

• 40:18Speaker 01

  on campus. And then one Sunday morning I was hungry. There's no parties left. I'm walking by and I see a couple, a couple of guys throw two pizza boxes into a dumpster. And I had not eaten for a day. I wait till sundown and jump in the dumpster, grab the pizza boxes and I run to my dorm room to shame. But I was hungry.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Sausage, by the way.

• 40:48Speaker 01

  It's great. And I was like, wow, this is the lowest of lows. I cannot tell my parents this. They would break their hearts that their son is dumpster diving.

• 41:01Speaker 01

  Well, the next day I was still hungry, went veered back by the same dumpster. And this time I saw a couple of folks tossing in Subway sandwiches into this dumpster. And I'm, I'm talking like party sub. I go, wow, this is jackpot. And so I wait till the sun goes down, jump in the dumpster, grab the bag of Subway and I see an all American box of Pop Tarts. Strawberry, by the way. And this, the streetlights are streaming in.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  I grab the Pop Tarts and suddenly out of nowhere, something hits my face and I'm bleeding. And I look in the corner, it is a raccoon. No way. In the dumpster. Scratched you? Just whacked me in the Wow. And, but I, I don't remember any of this. It's just fight or flight kicks in. I'm in an eight by eight or whatever with this, I kick the raccoon, grab my stuff and I run. I sit on a park bench

• 41:58Speaker 01

  crying.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  Not knowing why I'm crying. And realized that that was, that bottomed out. That was the lowest of lows. And sometimes you have to hit those to actually realize how much more there is in life.

• 42:19Speaker 01

  The amount of risk that we can take is based on how much pain we can handle as well.

• 42:28Speaker 01

  The craziest part about that story is 22 years later, I was invited back to be a commencement speaker.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  I stand on stage with thousands of people and I tell the same exact story because that dumpster was right on top of the hill.

• 42:47Speaker 01

  And the crowd is laughing. When we were done, the dean walks me up there. He's like, hey, let's go back up there. Let's look at the dumpster.

• 42:54Lewis Howes?

  See if that raccoon's still in there.

• 42:57Speaker 01

  We get back up there and I, a tear just comes down my eye. And that, because I see on the side of the dumpster, a poster that was with Aquaman on it. And it says, not giving up is the most heroic thing you can do. I read that again. I took a picture and I sent it to my wife.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  That 22 year arc was that phrase. Like not giving up is the most heroic you can do. I think the lesson, the money lesson from that is we all don't know what our risk profile is. And the only way we can test ourselves is deeply tied to our personal experience. Is can we be honest? Can we be open? Can we say, can I actually, can I actually handle that risk? I honestly believe that if that was what I am ever having to go to again, I can do that again. Because I've experienced that and I've been okay. But most people are, they don't want to, they don't want to risk something because they don't want to get something. But you have to risk something to get something. So when you realize that money is a risk adjusted reward game,

• 44:05Speaker 01

  it gets very powerful. I, I tell folks that the greatest deal that you can make is where it's heads I win, tails I tie. And that's asymmetric risk reward. Like what are the deals that you can get in your life where you're like, man, if this wins, this goes big. But if this does not go big, but I just get my money back. The more deals you can get like that, the better because you lose fewer times.

• 44:32Lewis Howes?

  What's the biggest money myth that people are buying into these days that they see online or on social media? That when you see, you're just like, that is a big mistake.

• 44:45Lewis Howes?

  Besides crypto.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Oh my goodness. The, the sad part is I think there are so many and I'm thinking through like what would be, will be a very important one. I think it's really sad that people are being taught that debt is bad.

• 45:02Speaker 01

  Now, the reason that is bad is like essentially telling somebody, driving is bad. You have a car, you have to get a license to be able to drive the car. We give people credit cards. We give people home equity lines of credit and we say, have at it Jimmy. And I think that's why, because we, we give people this powerful instrument and don't teach them how to wield it. And then we berate them for being irresponsible with their money. If debt as an instrument was paused in the world, the entire world would pause.

• 45:42Speaker 01

  Everything runs on the access to money overall, including our consumer finances, including our credit cards, including everything that we do. So the, the fact that we have to go cut up our credit cards, that's like saying, don't ever drive again. And I think that we should help America like use these vehicles well. And for most people, it's just, they just don't know how to budget. They just don't know how to plan. They just don't know how to say, well, I've got these monthly expenses. I've got this debt payment. Can I actually convert this debt payment to these, to these monthly expenses? And if there's any course that I wish I could teach at high school or college, it would just be how to just manage debt. Because we are being thrown debt so much in the face.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  Did you know that the most recent Coachella event,

• 46:31Speaker 01

  over 47% of people bought their tickets on Afterpay? They took a $180 ticket and they were willing to finance that payment for a completely discretionary entertainment based expense. And they just don't know what that means overall. So.

• 46:53Lewis Howes?

  Well, they're probably also paying double, I guess, over time, right?

• 46:56Speaker 01

  Of course. And so it, it really bothers me when the only advice to people is cut up your credit cards. As opposed to saying, hey, let me teach you how to use this.

• 47:07Lewis Howes?

  So what is the best way to use debt to create financial freedom for yourself?

• 47:12Speaker 01

  You want to use debt to actually buy an asset.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  When I first came to the US, I was, and I graduated from college. I was living in my aunt's basement. And I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad and it said, oh, you should buy real estate. I had no money. I was living in my aunt's basement. And I got a offer for an American Express student card in the mail. And it said, 0% cash back for 12 months. So I called and I said, well, what does this mean? She said, well, we will wire you $19,000, just like you spend $19,000 in your car for 12 month period at 0%. I said, awesome. So I took that card and then I waited a week. I got a second card. So I got two cards and then I took both the, I got $19,000 each and I bought my first rental property in Mount Chasta, California.

• 48:03Speaker 01

  Off two Amex cards. Now, that was all because I was able to take the debt. People who said, well, you borrowed from American Express to buy your first real estate property? Yes, I got two years of 0% financing and I was able to buy a piece of real estate to be able to go do that. I've never seen this property in Mount Chasta. I invested in it. And then over a two and a half year period, I got the money back. I paid off my loan and I made like 12, $13,000 from this entire deal. But all because I read this thing that said 0% financing to be able to, for 12 months. Folks just don't know how to manage their debt. Now, I also believe that since you, and once you're in the hole, the only way you try to get out of the hole is to dig deeper to get in the hole.

• 48:47Speaker 01

  So a lot of these baby step programs are good to get people out of the hole. But I would offer that people should not even be in the hole in the first place if they just knew how to manage this process overall.

• 48:56Lewis Howes?

  I mean, how do you manage it emotionally, knowing that you've spent whatever 30, 40, 50,000 in debt? Or invested it in an asset, but maybe the money's not coming back yet? Or maybe now you've got to go work two jobs to pay this off in two years or whatever it might be. How do you manage it emotionally and psychologically or spiritually? Knowing that you owe someone money and maybe you don't have it yet.

• 49:22Speaker 01

  It's tough.

• 49:26Speaker 01

  Anytime I get into a tough situation, I think about a three frame approach, which is past, present, future. My past self thought this was a good idea, therefore it made this decision. My present self is struggling with this heaviness of that I owe somebody something and I have to work two jobs to make it. But am I doing the right thing? Because the future is good because this asset's value is going up. I think the, the dichotomy happens when you're, one of the selves are not in congruence with each other.

• 49:58Lewis Howes?

  They're not aligned.

• 49:59Speaker 01

  They're not aligned. And so the reason why most people who are in credit card debt that took the $10,000 loan from their credit card and bought three big screen TVs and went on a vacation to Cabo, they are struggling is because their past self made the decision.

• 50:13Lewis Howes?

  There's no asset.

• 50:14Speaker 01

  Correct. Their present self is now feeling guilt and shame.

• 50:17Lewis Howes?

  And they're paying the price.

• 50:18Speaker 01

  Correct. And their future is like, man, I'm going to have to continue to work these two jobs to pay what I should have made a better decision on. And the way to make a better decision is just say, well, am I doing this in service of my future self? Because if I am, then I'll be able to actually put in the hard work today because I know that, hey, I will be okay in 18 months.

• 50:40Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. So it's making sure you make the, I guess, wise enough investment that your future self is saying, this is what you should invest in because it's going to pay dividends rather than some experience that you're going to have to pay off eventually. That's not paying dividends.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  I will tell you a decision that I made that my future self would have thought very highly of me on and actually completely bombed.

• 51:03Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 51:05Speaker 01

  I invested a million dollars into a company and lost it all.

• 51:10Lewis Howes?

  Mm hmm.

• 51:11Speaker 01

  And I thought I was being very strategic about it. So a CEO contacted me for a potential investment. I said, hey, I don't know you, but I'm happy to get to know you. We're going to do a two part process where I'm going to work with you for a six month period and you're going to pay me a consulting fee. And at the end of that period, if we are a good match, I will roll my full consulting fee in and I will make an investment as well. So I worked with him for six months. I met with him. I met with his management team. I went to his offices. I worked on their operations. I saw they took the advice. They did it. Did a good job with it.

• 51:47Lewis Howes?

  They got some growth or results.

• 51:49Speaker 01

  It was working. I was really impressed with the guy. And then at the end of the six month period, I rolled a $300,000 consulting fee plus a $700,000 investment into this company. But three days later, Lewis, he vanished.

• 52:02Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 52:03Speaker 01

  Not only.

• 52:03Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 52:04Speaker 01

  Not only did he vanish.

• 52:05Lewis Howes?

  Gosh.

• 52:06Speaker 01

  Not only did he vanish, I was not even able to serve him because I had to hire a private investigator to find him.

• 52:12Lewis Howes?

  Shut up. That's crazy. And you spent six months with him and his team.

• 52:17Speaker 01

  I found out it was all a sham.

• 52:19Lewis Howes?

  Come on.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  He had hired actors.

• 52:21Lewis Howes?

  No way.

• 52:22Speaker 01

  He had two sets of books.

• 52:24Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my God.

• 52:25Speaker 01

  This process. And I thought I was the man. I was a, I was like, I've built two billion dollar companies. I was the banker at Goldman Sachs. I've done six months with the diligence.

• 52:32Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  I have worked with this guy. It was a massive ego hit for me.

• 52:37Lewis Howes?

  Wow. He conned you.

• 52:39Speaker 01

  Yes, I still haven't been able to find him and.

• 52:41Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 52:42Speaker 01

  I, they were not, I had, I was shaking at night because I didn't know what I would tell my wife. Now, yes.

• 52:50Lewis Howes?

  How did he have the money to pay you a consulting fee from some other else he conned or something?

• 52:55Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 52:55Lewis Howes?

  Wow, this is crazy.

• 52:57Speaker 01

  And then what happened was, uh, that was the first time I didn't know how to manage my emotions. And so I started therapy and, um, two questions that my therapist asked, she said, what are you telling yourself about yourself? Which I was like, what does that even mean? Like, how? She goes, what are you telling yourself about yourself? We would sit there and I, she would just ask me that question over and over. She's like, until you can answer that question, you have no self-awareness of this at all because you're just projecting it out to everyone else. And the second thing is, what did you learn?

• 53:31Lewis Howes?

  So what were you telling yourself about yourself?

• 53:34Speaker 01

  That I should have known better.

• 53:40Speaker 01

  I'm too, I was too good. I can't believe I didn't see this coming.

• 53:43Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 53:44Speaker 01

  The, um, how can the world do this to me?

• 53:48Lewis Howes?

  I'm a good guy. I work hard.

• 53:50Speaker 01

  I worked hard. I, I walked into this with the best intentions. Why me? Why, why would you do this to me? What lesson are you trying to teach me? It's all everyone else's fault.

• 53:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. Why did they screw me over?

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Why did it screw me over? I, I approached this with the best intentions.

• 54:04Speaker 01

  And just articulating that was extremely helpful. I had never done that. But the biggest fear that I had was my wife trusted me. And I had to somehow tell her what had happened. Now, uh, the one thing that my wife and I do is every month I show her a P and L of everything. And that has been a really great practice for us. And so I told my therapist that I don't know what I'm going to tell my wife. And she said, well, what do you think she'd ask? I was like, I don't know, but I need to have a learning here. So we worked through our learnings and I came up with a framework that I said, wow, if I learn nothing from this, I at least should learn how to make a better investment.

• 54:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 54:48Speaker 01

  And so I came up with something called the four goods. Good people, good intentions, good rationale, good contracts. So what is good people? Good people is, hey, I trust you, but I'm going to trust but verify. I should have run background check on this guy. I never did. But why would you run a background check on somebody? The thing that we do now is, so if, if, uh, we were talking about, you know, uh, being in partnership, I'd say, Lewis, I'm super excited to work with you and, and partner with you. I would love for you to know who you're getting into partnership with. I would love for you to do a background check on me.

• 55:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, to make you feel comfortable.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  And I'd assume that you have no problem if I did a background check on you.

• 55:24Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 55:24Speaker 01

  Called the mutual background check. So trust would verify. The second is good intentions. The question I ask is, hey, if everything went to hell in a handbasket, what would we do? Walk me through it. When has something else gone down this way? So now it allows me to say, what are your true intentions? Are you willing to stay? Are you willing to fight? Are you willing to actually do the right thing even when everything goes wrong?

• 55:44Lewis Howes?

  And people usually say, yes, I'm willing to stick it out and this and this, but.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  But show me, what have you done this in the past, right? The third is good rationale. Finally, let me see the deal on, on a spreadsheet. And the fourth is good contracts. People are like, well, I'll just have my lawyer draft it. I'm like, lawyer drafting it up means nothing if you can't even find the guy. I can't even serve him.

• 56:03Speaker 01

  So when I met my wife, I walked her through it.

• 56:08Speaker 01

  Knew that I had finally, I'd married the right woman. And she said, uh, what did you learn? And I said, well, I learned that it is not about a good investment or a bad investment. It's about a good investor or a bad investor. And she goes, what does that mean? I said, I've learned a process for making better investments and I walked it through the four goods, good people, good intentions, good rationale, good contracts. And he said, seems like a really cheap million dollar lesson.

• 56:33Lewis Howes?

  Right?

• 56:33Speaker 01

  And that, I think that even in our relationship, that made us closer. That, uh, you, it's easy to talk about the wins.

• 56:42Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 56:42Speaker 01

  But when you can work through the losses and she's like, is that why you've been weird? Is that why I've been like chat, your teeth have been chattering at night? Is it why you've been like shaking under the covers?

• 56:51Lewis Howes?

  She didn't know about this?

• 56:52Speaker 01

  No, she didn't know what happened. And so don't keep things, don't keep your spouse.

• 56:57Lewis Howes?

  Wow, man, that is crazy. That must have been, felt like such a betrayal.

• 57:01Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 57:02Lewis Howes?

  Cause you're building a relationship with this person and they lied to you and then ran away.

• 57:06Speaker 01

  But I think as professional investors, it's going to happen.

• 57:09Lewis Howes?

  Uh huh.

• 57:10Speaker 01

  It happens in friendships. It happens in relationships, happens in business. We have to put a process in place to at least increase the likelihood that that didn't happen.

• 57:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I probably made, I don't know, a dozen like angel investments when I kind of first started making money. So I was like, oh, I have all this cash. Like, what do I do with this? And maybe over a few years I was making, you know, 25 to 50,000 dollar checks or whatever. And I have made zero of all that money from those early stages. And, and I put a lot of time and energy and, you know, promotion behind certain things as well. Cause I was like, I want to help these companies. And I realized I didn't do any of those, you know, or maybe the people were good, but I didn't have like any of this. Maybe there was good intentions, but I didn't really do the background checks. Not that these people were like bad or nothing, you know, no one ran away with my money, but

• 57:59Lewis Howes?

  uh, it's probably more like three and four, you know, it's like, I didn't know there was a good deal or good contracts involved. And what if it doesn't work out, you know? So it's just kind of naive and thinking, oh, this is what you do. You just make bets on different companies. It seems like it's all going to work out, you know, but what happens when it doesn't? And are you willing to make that investment if you don't, if you don't know what's going to happen when it doesn't? So.

• 58:23Speaker 01

  I think that, um, having seen things go wrong allows you to figure out how to make more things go right. And most of these processes are not complex. It's just a, hey, I'm just going to slow down just a second. And if it's a good partner, they're going to be very happy to run through this process to do this anyway.

• 58:45Lewis Howes?

  They don't need to rush it.

• 58:45Speaker 01

  No, not at all.

• 58:47Lewis Howes?

  If they're rushing it, that's a red flag. That's a red flag. Let's just get this done. We'll figure it out later, you know?

• 58:52Speaker 01

  The figure it out later is very difficult. I, I think that's, uh, I, I was like, we can, we can also fund it later.

• 58:57Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah.

• 58:59Speaker 01

  And the, the, taking the, the, the, I've been talking to my wife about this concept of risk. Well, what is risk? A risk is the probability that something goes wrong. Well, what is luck? Luck is the probability that something goes right. Well, aren't they the same thing?

• 59:14Speaker 01

  So the reframe for me was, oh, wow, to, to reduce my risk, I just have to ensure that the, the likelihood just goes up of me just running a simple process so that I can just minimize doing dumb things.

• 59:28Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 59:29Speaker 01

  And there, uh, the great, you know, there's a great Warren Buffett quote, which he says, uh, if you can, from the day you graduate from high school till the day you die, if you only had a punch card and the punch card had 10, 10 punches in it and you could only make 10 investments in your life and that's all you could make. How careful would you be make when you, when you did that?

• 59:49Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  And he talked about the idea of like, you know, um, in baseball, you, what if you never had to swing? What if you only could swing at the best pitch? You could just wait there forever and swing at the best pitch. He's like, that's the gift that we've been given as, as investors. You only have 10 punches that you can, you can punch. And so I was at this mindset that I just want to spread my risk out. I want to get, take a ton of deals, et cetera. And I realized that, uh, you know, don't put all your eggs in one basket. Well, I think that us as entrepreneurs, we put all our eggs in one basket and we watch the basket closely. That's our job. The average person is, you know, diversifying. So I, I think a lot now about to do great things, we must do fewer things. And we just watch those fewer things much more closely.

• 1:00:33Lewis Howes?

  Put more attention and energy into building those things. Yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  Correct. And you can actually grow something much bigger. Like if you, when, if you put your, your, your brand, your love, your promotion behind two things, that is significantly better than behind 20 things because you can't even keep track anyway.

• 1:00:46Lewis Howes?

  Exactly.

• 1:00:51Lewis Howes?

  What's the, where are you putting your money these days?

• 1:00:55Speaker 01

  I think about, I think about the money monsters a lot. And the number one thing that I want to do is dramatically reduce taxes. So.

• 1:01:04Lewis Howes?

  You're in the wrong state.

• 1:01:08Speaker 01

  On the, on the investment side, we're spending a lot of time on multifamily. So.

• 1:01:13Lewis Howes?

  Are you buying them yourselves? You're buying syndicates? Are you buying funds? Or what's the process?

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  We're buying, we're buying properties directly. And we have a operating partner that manages the property. So we control everything from the purchase all the way till the operation. So we control the full stack. And we do it for two very important reasons. Important reason number one is that it gives us a physical asset to own for, to manage during inflation. And the second is that multifamily is the only, only asset class that actually trades like a business. So let's say our, our homes, right? If the person next to us sold their home for $400,000 less, now our home is worth $400,000 less.

• 1:01:56Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:56Speaker 01

  But in a multifamily apartment complex, you could have four apartment complexes in a row. And one may trade for $300,000 less, one may trade for $800,000 less, one may trade for a million dollars less. But at the apartment complex that you own, if it's operated well, it trades on EBITDA or net income. So it can be in the middle of all the other underperforming properties, but it trades as a business.

• 1:02:17Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 1:02:18Speaker 01

  And that one thing allows us to say, hey, we, if we operate that better, we can actually generate significantly better returns. So now beating inflation, getting the tax advantages and actually getting the responsibility to operate that better. Allows us to say, no matter what environment, we have to take full responsibility for delivering on this asset. So I'd say right now, close to 70% of my net worth is in real estate.

• 1:02:40Lewis Howes?

  Multifamily real estate. Wow.

• 1:02:44Lewis Howes?

  What's another money rule that you had to learn the hard way? Or the law of money that you had to learn the hard way?

• 1:02:50Speaker 01

  When people are rushed.

• 1:02:54Speaker 01

  They make decisions out of peer pressure.

• 1:02:59Speaker 01

  I've realized that when I don't know something.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  The answer is not to do, not, not to do it. It's very easy to say, well, I don't know much about that. I shouldn't do that. What I've realized instead is if I don't know much about that, who can I partner with? Who knows a lot about that? My first investment was my college friends. We all didn't have a lot of money. And I got a, something called a commitment fund. I said to them, hey, my goal is to have each of us contribute a hundred thousand dollars for a total of a million dollars. And I know that all of you don't have a hundred thousand dollars, but I know you have at least 10. What I'm going to do is I'm going to put my $10,000 in, each of us are going to put $10,000 in. And I'm going to take the responsibility to invest this.

• 1:03:47Speaker 01

  I will never call more than $10,000 at a time. And I'll never call it in a six month period. So no more than six months apart. That was the first fund that I created for myself with my friends. I still have that fund going over 25 years later.

• 1:04:03Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's cool.

• 1:04:04Speaker 01

  And the crazy part is if you don't know how to do something, get people around you that you can actually invest in groups and that dramatically reduces your risk. Because money is such a personal thing, people want to, you know, keep it, keep it behind closed doors. Keep it very, very close to their chest. Think if you talk more about it.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  It gets, it gets significantly easier to work through. And you actually make much better friends when you talk through money. I call this the, the five levels of relationships. I'll walk you through it. The, the bottom most level of a relationship is when people talk about the past. So you're like, hey, you remember the time when we used to do that? They just talk about the past. The second level of relationships is when you talk about other people. They're like, wow, you know, Louis did that, Sean did that, Alex did that. It's the gossip. The third level of relationships is when you talk about ideas. You go to random events, maybe a mastermind group, and you're like, oh, that's an idea to do that. And that's an idea to do this, but you don't do anything with it. The fourth level of relationships, when you talk about execution, you're in a very tight circle.

• 1:05:10Speaker 01

  You're like, hey, Louis, what do I actually invest in? What do you actually do? Did you actually talk to that active manager? How much did you put in? What questions did you ask? You're talking about execution. But the fifth level of relationships is when you talk about money.

• 1:05:23Speaker 01

  If you and I got together the first time and in the, within the first 20 minutes, we actually started talking about money. You automatically get the entire scope of everything else. The crazy story is about eight years ago, nine years ago, when I first met Alex from Rosie, he was in the process of selling his business. And I got introduced to him to help him sell his business. And so in my first conversation with Alex, we talked for four hours and he showed me everything. And because he showed me everything, I then met with Leila. And because of that, I knew everything about their lives. And I was able to actually be their personal advisor through their first exit. And eight years later, I'm the CEO of that business. And without that actually accelerated how fast you get the relationships going.

• 1:06:07Speaker 01

  So I, I often think about the fastest way to get in great rapport with people is to give them the gift of going second. And actually share on the money side, because it's the most vulnerable thing. And it allows you to get deeper in the conversation.

• 1:06:20Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, it's beautiful. What is the money framework you wish everyone knew sooner?

• 1:06:26Speaker 01

  That you don't have to wait till you're 65 for retirement. Financial freedom is available to you today. And if you can just decide that passive income is greater than monthly expenses, you can actually create a really great, you know, life for yourself. I talk about this little thing called the wealth ladder. The wealth ladder is, anyone can use it.

• 1:06:53Speaker 01

  The first wrong in the wealth ladder is can we get our active income to be greater than our monthly expenses? Can we just get the active job that we're doing to pay for the lifestyle that we have? Because if the job that we're doing is not, not paying for our lifestyle, something dramatically is wrong. So the focus there is, wow, can I actually improve my skills? Can I work harder? Whatever I need to do, can I get that going?

• 1:07:14Lewis Howes?

  Or drop expenses if I'm overspending.

• 1:07:16Speaker 01

  Exactly right. Exactly right. So the first level for me is can I get the active income greater than monthly expenses? As soon as you're able to do that, now you can say, well, maybe I can get a better job. Maybe I can do something else. The next step ends up being, how do you manage the surplus? So let's say your active income is greater than monthly expenses. You have a little bit of a surplus. Well, what do you do with that surplus? Before people do anything with that surplus, I believe that you should create a money factory. Some way in which the money automatically manages itself. Because if it comes into your checking account, mechanically speaking, it's just going to sit there. Because that is the easiest thing to do. Instead, if you're like, hey, for every dollar that comes in, I do 70% in my expenses. I do 20% of my savings and 10% of my investing.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  If you can use a 70, 10, 20, 10 rule, whatever it may be, you have a way to distribute your money. From a football analogy, I'd say that is your quarterback. The job of the quarterback, it's just to distribute, not to just have the money sit there. So to manage your surplus in some way. The third is how do you actually get your first tiny income generating asset? Tiga, like my, my son is 14, invested in a V and Q, got the tiny income generating asset. And then the fourth level finally becomes, hey, can I start to get my passive income greater than my monthly expenses? When you're, when you start to look at opportunities where you can actually generate passive income, you'll realize that, wow, I made my first $50 passive income check today. Like, wait a minute.

• 1:08:41Lewis Howes?

  Feels good.

• 1:08:42Speaker 01

  I didn't do anything.

• 1:08:43Lewis Howes?

  I didn't have to work for it.

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I didn't have to work for it. I invested in this and I actually got that. How can I do more of this? Can I stack more in this?

• 1:08:49Lewis Howes?

  It gets exciting.

• 1:08:50Speaker 01

  Yes. And, and you also realize that you're working towards something specific. Not something that is 30, 60 years away. And so someone, if everyone just follows the active income greater than monthly expenses, manage the surplus with the money factory, invest in my first tiny income generating asset, and then do passive income greater than monthly expenses. It dramatically takes out all the noise of, should I have debt? Should I use a 401k? Should I use a credit card? Should I use a Roth IRA? Should I invest in multifamily? It doesn't matter because everything is in the service of only one thing, which is going to get my passive income greater than my monthly expenses. And if you can do that, you can wake up every morning and say, what would I like to do today?

• 1:09:25Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah. That's beautiful. I got a couple of final questions for you, Sharon. This has been powerful. So thank you for sharing this.

• 1:09:33Lewis Howes?

  And I want people, before I ask them, I want people to follow you on Instagram. I know your YouTube is starting to take off. So if they go to Sharon on YouTube or on social media, they'll find a lot of your information there. What's your main place that you're going to right now and creating the most content? Is it YouTube? Is it Instagram? Is your website?

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  I've realized that all the adults are on YouTube. And, and for.

• 1:09:54Lewis Howes?

  Not kids?

• 1:09:55Speaker 01

  For, for two reasons. One is when, because I have children now, I'm starting to realize how much short form is just scrambling their brains. After my daughter, who's 10, has a, you know, short form video session, I have to like not talk to her for 10 minutes just to let the snow globe calm down.

• 1:10:16Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  But I think that that changes dramatically with the long form videos. I've also realized that long form is very hard to AI fake. And so the best creators, the people that are spending a lot of time, spend a lot of time on YouTube. So we only started a YouTube channel less than a year ago. And we've had some pretty good success so far growing it. So spending all my time on YouTube right now.

• 1:10:36Lewis Howes?

  Wow, that's great. Well, we'll, we'll probably collab on this video. So if you're on YouTube right now, watching this, make sure you subscribe to Sharon as well. On his channel and check it out because you get a lot of, you got a lot of great lessons there as well.

• 1:10:49Lewis Howes?

  There's a question I ask everyone towards the end called the three truths. So hypothetically, imagine it's your last day on earth, many years away. But you get to accomplish all your dreams and build and exit and have all the life memories you want to have. But for whatever reason, on the last day, you have to take all of your work with you. All your content, work, everything's gone. This conversation is gone. But you get to leave behind three lessons to the world. What would those three truths or three lessons be for you?

• 1:11:15Speaker 01

  Truth number one.

• 1:11:18Speaker 01

  Average is the punishment for the weak.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  As a greatness guy, we realize that

• 1:11:27Speaker 01

  to do great things, we must do fewer things. And the world has taught us that being average is okay. They talk about average income, average person, average weight. You know, the the average job and they made average be okay. But to really get great, I think we have to set aside average and know that average is the punishment for the week. Second is probably my favorite,

• 1:11:55Speaker 01

  which is it's okay to suck, but it's not okay to skip. There's so much

• 1:12:02Speaker 01

  that goes into self-discipline that we can easily not keep our promises to ourselves. We say we're going to go to the gym, but we say, ah, not today. We say we're going to go for a run or say not today. We say we're going to give our wife a hug, but not today. But I don't have to do a perfect gym session. I don't have to go for a perfect run.

• 1:12:22Speaker 01

  I can still give my wife a hug. It's okay that I suck doing that, but it's not okay to skip doing that. The last thing I would say, truth number three would be,

• 1:12:34Speaker 01

  assume every single person that you meet was sent to teach you something. Think when we were children, we go to the park and we start playing. We say, hi, I'm Lewis. Hi, I'm Sharon. You want to play? We're so much more open to people. And as we get older, we get more skeptical. We say, well, what does he want from me? What does she want from me? What is their ulterior motive?

• 1:12:57Speaker 01

  In a lot of ways, I think that we are just our 10 year old selves in adult bodies. So if we could just assume that every single person that we meet was sent to teach us something, I think it changes the world very quickly.

• 1:13:09Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, those are cool, man. I like those.

• 1:13:14Lewis Howes?

  How old are you now?

• 1:13:15Speaker 01

  Forty six.

• 1:13:15Lewis Howes?

  Forty six. So if you go back, I guess, what was it 30 years ago to your, is that right? 30 years ago to your 16 year old self? Is that 30 years? If you go back to your 16 year old self, right after you got mugged and had to give away your 100 bucks and you got 45 back, I guess, what would you say if you were staring at yourself in the camera? What would you say to your 62 year old self with all the wisdom and all the knowledge you have now

• 1:13:42Lewis Howes?

  to help that younger version of you get to where you are now?

• 1:13:47Speaker 01

  Become the person that deserves

• 1:13:53Speaker 01

  the goals that you have for yourself. Meaning the pivotal word is deserve. What is deserved? Does Kobe Bryant deserve that all the trophies? Why? Does Tiger Woods deserve that? Does Oprah deserve that? Does Lewis deserve that? Why? I've realized that how I define deserve is you put in unreasonable effort, but you have reasonable expectations. Kobe just wanted to win a win a ring, but he put in the extra reps to get that result. Same with Tiger, same with Oprah, same with you. So I think about how do I deserve my goals? And the answer just becomes become the person that can do unreasonable effort.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  So you can get that reasonable result.

• 1:14:39Lewis Howes?

  That's cool. That's cool, man. Sharon, I want to acknowledge you for everything you're creating. You know, I feel like you've been putting yourself out there the last year, a couple of years since you joined with Alex and Leila. And it's cool to see your content and how you're serving people and just sharing your wisdom. So I want to acknowledge you for all of that. And I really hope people check out your content. So keep it up, man. It's awesome.

• 1:15:00Speaker 01

  Thanks so much for having me.

• 1:15:01Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Final question, what's your definition of greatness?

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  I think it's evolved over time. In my twenties, I thought it was about the destination. In my thirties, I thought it was about the journey. And in my forties, I've realized it's about the company, the people that you work with, the people that you share with, the people that you build with.

• 1:15:24Lewis Howes?

  Not the company you own, but the

• 1:15:26Speaker 01

  the people that you're with, the people that you're with. And I think that a lot of it comes down to the reward is not in the outcome, but the reward is in the work.

• 1:15:37Speaker 01

  And I say that, I don't know if you've heard of Sisyphus. Sisyphus is a Greek god, a Greek king that was condemned by the gods. And he was condemned to roll a boulder up a mountain. And then every time he got up to the mountain, the outcome, it would roll back down. And they wanted to mock him for playing pranks on the gods. But Sisyphus, this Greek king said, wow, if the goal is not the outcome, maybe the goal is the work. Maybe I get all the joy pushing the boulder up the mountain. So I want this boulder to roll down every time. So I really believe that this idea of greatness comes in where we tie it to the reward being the outcome.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  But if you can just tie it to the reward being the daily work, you get to push the boulder up the mountain with a big smile on your face every single day.

• 1:16:27Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. Awesome, man, Sharon. Thank you so much, brother. Appreciate it.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  Appreciate it.

• 1:16:31Lewis Howes?

  Powerful, man. My friend, I hope you're enjoying this episode right now because we are on a mission to impact 100 million lives every single week. And every follow here on this podcast helps us reach more people. Make sure to hit the follow at the top of this show's page right now. It's the single biggest thing that you can do to support the show and the impact of us reaching you every single time we have new episodes. I appreciate you and I can't wait to see you in the next episode. I hope you enjoyed today's episode and it inspired you on your journey towards greatness. Make sure to check out the show notes in the description for a full rundown of today's episode with all the important links. And if you want weekly exclusive bonus episodes with me personally,

• 1:17:16Lewis Howes?

  as well as ad free listening, then make sure to subscribe to our Greatness Plus channel exclusively on Apple Podcasts. Share this with a friend on social media and leave us a review on Apple Podcasts as well. Let me know what you enjoyed about this episode in that review. I really love hearing feedback from you and it helps us figure out how we can support and serve you moving forward. And I want to remind you, if no one has told you lately that you are loved, you are worthy and you matter. And now it's time to go out there and do something great.