460. The psychology of 'good girl' syndrome

Many of us are conditioned to believe that being described as kind, nice, accommodating and generous are the key to overall happiness. But when these traits veer into Good Girl Syndrome, we can be left with a pathological need to please others, be hypervigilant towards others’ emotions, and ultimately suppress how we really feel. In this episode, we explore the origins of Good Girl Syndrome, understand the mental and physical cost of emotional suppression, and learn how to challenge this early social conditioning. Watch on Netflix: HERE https://netflix.com/thepsychologyofyour20s We unpack: Why women are particularly vulnerable to Good Girl Syndrome How trying to be liked shows up personally and professionally The link between a high score on the Silencing the Self Scale and depression Why it can be harder to break Good Girl habits as we get older The ways we can challenge Good Girl Syndrome traits Follow Jemma on Instagram: @jemmasbeg https://www.instagram.com/jemmasbeg/?hl=en# Follow the podcast on Instagram: @thatpsychologypodcast https://www.instagram.com/thatpsychologypodcast/?hl=en# Subscribe on Substack: @thepsychologyofyour20s https://substack.com/@thepsychologyofyour20s For business: [email protected] mailto:[email protected] Our favourite sources: https://reachlink.com/advice/general/good-girl-syndrome-why-compliance-destroys-mental-health/ https://www.cosmopolitan.com/uk/love-sex/relationships/a34642791/good-girl-complex/ https://www.researchgate.net/publication/362662346_Appendix_A_The_Silencing_the_Self_Scale The Psychology of your 20s is not a substitute for professional mental health help. If you are struggling, distressed or require personalised advice, please reach out to your doctor or a licensed psychologist. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Jemma Sbeg?

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• 2:47Jemma Sbeg?

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• 3:38Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. I'm Jemma Sbeg, and welcome back to the Psychology of Your 20s, the podcast where we talk through the biggest changes, moments and transitions of our 20s, and what they mean for our psychology.

• 3:58Jemma Sbeg?

  Hello, everybody. Welcome back to the show. Welcome back to the podcast. It is so great to have you here, back for another episode, as we, of course, break down the psychology of your 20s. A quick reminder that this episode and many others are now available to watch on Netflix. I know I say it like every episode, but if you haven't yet, please check it out. It is one of the easiest ways to support the show and to support the podcast. And I would just really, really deeply appreciate it if you have the time. Thank you. Today, I want to talk about a feeling so many women know very, very intimately. The belief that the only way to be happy, loved, cared for

• 4:43Jemma Sbeg?

  is to make sure that everybody else is happy first. I want to introduce you to a term for this. It's called good girl syndrome, also known as good girl complex. This isn't a formal psychological diagnosis. I want to say that straight away. But it does describe a collection of what we would call learnt compliance patterns that can be hard to recognize, specifically where women chronically suppress their authentic needs and chronically suppress their emotions to maintain approval and to avoid conflict, believing that will make them happier or those around them happier. Those of us with good girl syndrome have internalized these social behaviors and lessons,

• 5:28Jemma Sbeg?

  most often from a very young age, that the best thing that you can be is liked and loved, regardless of what it costs. And for yourself sacrificing and for yourself silencing, you will be rewarded. And we see it in our mothers, we see it in our grandmothers. We see it in how women are expected to act at work and in relationships. And that is to always forgive and always to step aside and to be nice and to be demure and to be mindful. But this has a severe cost, and it presents a very impossible tightrope for women, which is either you make everyone else happy by never asking questions or never demanding anything, or you allow yourself to be happy.

• 6:09Jemma Sbeg?

  And maybe in the process, you upset some people or you're labeled a bitch, like, or you receive consequences for that. That is the tightrope. And I think when we're walking that tightrope, good girl syndrome can slowly and secretly really erode our lives and erode our sense of self-confidence and self-worth. So I want to interrogate the psychological origins, the signs you may have developed this, this complex, this syndrome, why it often feels useful. And probably most importantly for an episode like this, what does the research say about unlearning these behaviors? Especially after years and years of feeling like this is keeping you safe, this is keeping you loved, and this is part of who you are. So it's a big episode.

• 6:54Jemma Sbeg?

  I hope you enjoy it. Let's get into it.

• 7:00Jemma Sbeg?

  Good girl syndrome is one of those funny things where you never really notice it or you never really have a term for it. You just kind of think that it's like this natural thing that women do and the way they are. And then you have a word for it. You learn the term and the concept, and it's literally everywhere. Everywhere women exist, there is an expectation for them to be good and polite and silent. And that is an expectation that just doesn't exist in the same way for men. I'm going to provide three examples to begin with of how this presents itself at every single stage of society. Firstly, in school. Disruptiveness when we're at school from, from boys is expected. And it's almost seen as part of their learning process or playful.

• 7:45Jemma Sbeg?

  And boys being boys and, you know, it's fine. Whereas disruptiveness from girls is seen as disrespectful, it's seen as rude, unexpected. Girls are also expected to police boys' behavior. You know, if a boy is loud and misbehaving, have a guess who is, who he's sitting next to. You know, most likely, if it's not the teacher, it's a nice, good girl, his same age, who's going to rub off on him, even though that's not really her responsibility. You know, she's there to learn. She's not his mother. She's not a babysitter. She's his peer, but she's a good girl. And she's going to sit nicely and politely, and she's going to do it. And she's maybe even going to feel proud of this maturity and proud of this, of this duty. Then we have good girl syndrome in relationships.

• 8:30Jemma Sbeg?

  A good girl will keep the peace. She will manage the emotions and the mental load of her partner. And the more subtly that she can do this, the more low maintenance she can be. And the more low maintenance, the better. I often think low maintenance in these cases is often code for, you know, doesn't ask for much, doesn't need much, doesn't push back, meaning maximum freedom, often for her male partner at the expense of her own emotions. So we have good girl syndrome in school, good girl syndrome in relationships. Then we have good girl syndrome in politics. A good girl in this situation will be delicate. She won't be too outspoken, and she definitely won't break any rules. There was a study from 2025 at Durham University,

• 9:15Jemma Sbeg?

  aimed to understand whether female politicians are held to higher, more rigid standards in comparison to male politicians. And what these researchers did was that they created a fictional US congressional election. And they asked participants to evaluate and to eventually vote for made-up candidates. And what the results showed was that female candidates were judged more harshly than male candidates when they violated certain expectations. Women received a larger penalty for straying from what was expected from them, whilst male candidates were given a lot more leeway. Even when they were involved in serious misconduct, they were often forgiven by the voter.

• 10:01Jemma Sbeg?

  There just wasn't the same expectation on men to be good and to care or be mindful for others. And these broader explanations, I think, these three explanations, show how this phenomenon reaches everything and everyone. But in ourselves, what does it look like? I want to give you some individual signs. This may be part of your own behavior or your own identity, as I know it's part of mine, so that you can kind of look out for it. And no judgment in this. I just think it's a helpful thing to just see if you relate to how this is individually expressed. Firstly, a big sign of good girl syndrome is overexplaining. Overexplaining everything and over apologizing for everything.

• 10:45Jemma Sbeg?

  Even neutral statements will begin with, sorry, but, I'm sorry, but this, that. You know, we might come up with a large list of reasons that, you know, we can't attend things. We don't just say no. We have to give evidence for our choice. We have to make sure people know, if I'm saying no, if I'm disagreeing with you, if I can't come, it's all my fault, it's all on me, you can just forgive me now. I'll feel terrible about it in my own time. At its root, over explaining and over apologizing is an anxiety response. We don't want anyone to think poorly of us, anyone, because that would mean that we've let somebody down. And as a good girl, like your nervous system literally just doesn't know how to cope with that.

• 11:27Jemma Sbeg?

  It doesn't have the strategy to feel okay in this situation of ambiguity and disappointment. The same applies to our opinions and our ability to express them. A classic sign of good girl syndrome is just not being able to stand up for something that you deeply believe in when somebody else disagrees with you. Specifically out of fear that you disagreeing will come off as combative or contrarian and will make them upset. You could have a belief that you deeply believe in, more than anything else in the world. But as soon as somebody else says, you know, I don't actually agree with that, this is my opinion, it's something different.

• 12:08Jemma Sbeg?

  You become very agreeable, like even if it's against your own morals, sometimes it's really hard to stand up for that. You even, you know, I think will often end up walking away being like, I wish that I'd done that differently, I wish that I'd pushed harder. In the moment, if you're, if you have this good girl complex, it literally feels impossible. It is paralyzing. I remember doing an interview with somebody last year, and if you are a loyal listener, I honestly, I think you could guess, I think you guys kind of know which one. And it really woke me up to my own good girl tendencies because if I'm being completely honest, this guest was saying things I honestly didn't agree with. And I always thought that I was strong willed about.

• 12:49Jemma Sbeg?

  And that if somebody said these things to me, I would know what to say and I would fight back in those situations. And in that moment, I just was, I froze and I didn't want to upset this complete stranger, so I just kind of politely nodded along. That is good girl syndrome. In that situation, I knew what I believed, I knew what I should say. I knew I had a right to push back and to disagree. And I just couldn't. And the reason I couldn't because I was like, well, what if this stranger who will never think of me or hear from me or see me again, has a negative opinion? What if I upset them? Meanwhile, I'm sitting there upset, but you know, my feelings don't matter as much. It's this passivity that just creeps up on us in so many areas of our life where

• 13:32Jemma Sbeg?

  otherwise we're very assertive, we're very successful, we're very opinionated. But then there is like this instinct that kicks in at times like unconsciously. Another sign that you may be or may have good girl syndrome is that you are incredibly attuned to others' emotions. Often to, I would say, a psychic, almost freaky degree. Like you can tell somebody is mad weeks before they say anything. You can tell when somebody isn't happy in their relationship, they don't need to tell you anything, they don't need to say a word. You know, you know, I feel like in these moments, you're, like, your friends are probably sick of hearing you say, I told you so.

• 14:15Jemma Sbeg?

  But this is your superpower, being able to identify discomfort in others and rushing in to fix it is a job you are very good at. And there is a word for this, there's always a word for these things in psychology and it's hypervigilance, you've probably heard of it. But it's a state of chronic alertness where your attention is always focused outwards. It's always closely monitoring the reactions and emotions of, of others in your environment, rather than monitoring and regulating how you feel internally. We just want everyone to have a good time. We want everyone to be, to be happy. And if they're happy, who cares if I'm unhappy in the process? I think there's this narrative of like, I can manage my own bad feelings,

• 14:58Jemma Sbeg?

  but I don't trust that others can do the same. And I don't believe that they should, because unlike me, they shouldn't have to sacrifice that. The good girl sacrifices her own comfort for others and therefore feels that she will be rewarded. Other people's unhappiness is much, much more uncomfortable to her than her own. In this vein, I think another classic symptom sign of good girl syndrome is also constantly over analyzing minor social interactions. Specifically after they've already taken place, or days before. You, you, you're still looking for signs that you were rude or that you were off putting.

• 15:40Jemma Sbeg?

  I think that the other critical thing is like asking for reassurance from a friend or a partner or somebody else that was there, like, oh my god, can you just confirm, was I rude? Do you think they liked me? Was I weird? Even if there is literally no sign that others were upset or bored or offended, this type of rumination can and will lead to us finding issues where there are none. And spending a huge amount of energy and time thinking about interactions that at this stage you just can't change anyways. There's a very interesting meta-analysis on this, so an analysis of a bunch of studies that was published in twenty twenty four in the Journal of Psychiatric Research. And this meta-analysis, it looked at over thirty five studies, there were ten thousand participants across these studies.

• 16:25Jemma Sbeg?

  And what it found was that post-event rumination like this often changes our interpretation of, of an event to be more negative. Even if we left feeling positive right afterwards. So our perception changes with time. It's highly correlated to increased social anxiety and to people pleasing. So some other final signs of a good girl complex, I just want to mention. I think you may also be very susceptible to staying in relationships way longer than you should. This goes for romantic relationships naturally. I would say even more so for friendships. Something that I've had to realize is that it's actually not normal to give people as many second chances as I have done.

• 17:08Jemma Sbeg?

  I have forgiven people time and time again for things that I would never have done in the first place, ever. But I think deep down, it comes back to this feeling that, you know, I'm secretly a bad person, I'm not a good person. So if I forgive people for their mistakes, when I inevitably make the worst mistake of all because I am evil and awful, maybe they'll forgive me, maybe that, like, maybe they'll have forgiveness in their heart for what I've done. Maybe that sounds insane to you? Maybe you can relate. I thought I just put it out there because I do think this is a pattern that a lot of us have. And finally, perhaps the greatest sign can be summarized into one sentence, which is that you're so mature for your age.

• 17:49Jemma Sbeg?

  You've heard this all your life, since you were a kid, all your life. You're so mature, you're so smart. At the time, I think it feels like an amazing compliment. You know, you're being accepted as one of the adults, you're so grown up. But the thing is, when adults think of you as mature, they stop giving you the grace that you should receive as a kid. The kind of grace that is important whilst you are learning and the kind of grace that is important when you don't know better. And they start too soon, they start assigning adult responsibilities to you, particularly emotional responsibilities that you're just not ready for yet, and you shouldn't have to be ready for. A kind of comorbidity to being a good girl is often being parentified

• 18:32Jemma Sbeg?

  or made to take care of your family way earlier than is usual. We can also see how this has ties to being the eldest daughter as well, it's all connected. As children, you should be free to express how you feel openly and loudly, rather than through the lens of what we think adults would like from us. That is one of the best parts about being a kid. And when you don't have that freedom because somebody has started to see you as this good girl, this good kid, this mature kid, you lose out, you become a mature version of yourself much earlier on. And we know this impacts women and girls a whole lot more. Research, including a nineteen ninety three paper published in the Harvard Educational Review,

• 19:16Jemma Sbeg?

  shows that young girls often speak their minds quite freely during early childhood. It's something that we call ordinary courage. They stop much sooner than boys. The researcher who did this study, her name is Annie Rogers, she calls this the loss of voice. The consequence of this loss of voice early on can be severe. In two thousand and eleven, there was a very groundbreaking meta-analysis by a well-known researcher. Her name is Dana, Donna, Dana Crowley-Jack. Um, and she basically found that an increase in self-silencing amongst women and girls was correlated with increased depression and increased psychological vulnerability later in life.

• 19:57Jemma Sbeg?

  Women suffer under the silent burden that they have been asked to carry since they were children. And they suffer under the silent burden of everybody else's happiness that they feel responsible for. So how does this happen? And how do we break out of it? We're going to talk about that and so much more after this short break. Stay with us.

• 20:22Jemma Sbeg?

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• 21:06Jemma Sbeg?

  to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Listen to Health Versus Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 21:21Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 21:59Jemma Sbeg?

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• 22:43Jemma Sbeg?

  that make membership feel rewarding long before takeoff and long after landing. Because SkyMiles is more than a travel program, it is a membership that moves with you. Fly farther, earn every day, redeem your way and access more. Because when your membership is as unique as you are, there's no telling where your next journey will take you. I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realizing that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my Whoop. Truly, you guys, you know I'm such a data and information driven person.

• 23:25Jemma Sbeg?

  And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my mood, with my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable personalized insights that have made me more intentional and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop.

• 24:09Jemma Sbeg?

  Growth isn't linear, there's no magic timeline or secret template. And no one understands that quite like Southern New Hampshire University. Because SNHU has online degree programs built for whatever path you are on. Tried college before? Transfer up to 90 credits. And if you're new to this, no worries. Every student gets a dedicated academic advisor. And here's the best part, there's no set class times, so school actually fits your life. Ready to get started? Visit SNHU.edu/psych. That's SNHU.edu/psych. So why do people develop good girl syndrome in the first place?

• 24:54Jemma Sbeg?

  Well, like nearly literally every single psychological concept, it comes back to experiences in our childhood. Of course, gender socialization is critical here, especially when we're children. I think we've explored that already. On a more psychological level, it also comes down to how we experience love and how girls experience love differently to boys. If we experience love, parental love is something that was conditional and tied to being helpful, quiet, agreeable, high achieving, we pursue those parts of ourselves. And we learn to shut down the parts of ourselves that don't result in that feeling and don't result in love, which is the messy, angry, needy parts of us that,

• 25:37Jemma Sbeg?

  you know, might bring about shame or a lack of affection. As a child, this works quite well as a strategy to get love. But as good girl syndrome and good girl traits become internalized, it can almost feel like this is who we've always been. And we confuse what is basically a peacemaking strategy with our personality. And we start to think, you know, it's actually not that bad to put others first, which is maybe correct. But then we think, well, maybe it's not that bad to be miserable so that other people can be happy. And then we start to think, maybe this is who I am, I'm a nice person. I am, I give, I'm giving, and so why change this? Why change these parts of myself, even if they kind of hurt me?

• 26:22Jemma Sbeg?

  I think it's really important to say as well, this isn't always a choice. This often keeps us safe and accepted. And as a child, that is our ultimate goal. At this point in our lives, belonging is all that we really care about. But one way that this response also shows up that shows that this is more survival than anything else is, is through the fawning response. You've likely heard of fight, flight or freeze, I'm pretty sure you have. Fawning is the silent fourth response that primarily impacts women and people who've experienced trauma or people who hold less power in society. Fawning was first identified by the psychotherapist, his name was Peter Walker, in this book he wrote. And this book came out in 2013, it was on complex PTSD.

• 27:04Jemma Sbeg?

  And in the book, he essentially says, if you can't escape a threat and you can't fight a threat or you can't wait out a threat, you, you will become something that the threat likes. And you will therefore hope that the threat will be nice to you. Fawning can include people pleasing, it can include chronic apologizing, conflict avoidance, excessive caretaking, emotional attunement to others at the expense of ourselves, over agreeing. I feel like that's basically good girl syndrome and good girl complex in just fewer words. They are incredibly tied. Good girl syndrome and fawning, fawning is a survival response are intrinsically linked.

• 27:46Jemma Sbeg?

  What's particularly interesting for me is something that I said before, which is that as we get older, it can become harder and harder to differentiate between which parts of our character are shaped by good girl syndrome and this compulsive desire to be liked, and which parts of our, of this is actually just who we are and is just a genuine part of our personality, it becomes indistinguishable. The truth is, is that perhaps on some level, like we might just never know. We might just never know, because at some point we stop thinking, you know, I'm doing this because I want to be loved, or I'm doing this because a parent or teacher conditioned me, or I'm doing this because I get praise, and we just start thinking,

• 28:27Jemma Sbeg?

  I'm doing this, I'm putting other people first because I'm generous and this is who I am and we're proud of this part of ourselves. Psychologists have a name for this, it's called self-concept integration. In the case of good girl complex, behaviors like the ones we described that were once strategies for gaining approval become so woven into our, our identity that to undo them would be to undo who we are. A woman who refuses to say no might not see that as people pleasing. She is just somebody who is a nice person. Somebody who anticipates the needs of others, they're just really thoughtful, they're empathetic, rather than being hyper vigilant. We don't want to pathologize these parts of who we are.

• 29:13Jemma Sbeg?

  In a two thousand and twenty six study published this year, researchers surveyed three hundred and sixty six women using this newly developed good girl syndrome questionnaire. And they found that what we call good girl syndrome wasn't just one trait. So it's difficult to identify, but it's a a cluster of behaviours that is centred around conditional self-worth and only feeling valuable when you meet other people's expectations. Women who scored highly on this questionnaire also tended to be A perfectionist, B self-sacrificing, C afraid of making mistakes. Uh what am I up to? D highly ambitious and very focused on making other people happy.

• 29:55Jemma Sbeg?

  The thing is, these traits make you very likable, they make you really successful, and that is a good feeling. It is a good feeling, but it does have a cost. So let's talk about it. The thing is, this type of over-responsibility we're experiencing, to be completely honest with you, is just a fancy form of emotional suppression. There is this big iron gate that we've established to lock away our true feelings, because our true feelings would often stand in opposition of what others want us to do, and that is bad. And that is emotional suppression. You may know this already, but long-term people-pleasing is being increasingly linked to physical health conditions, increasingly linked to psychological conditions, increasingly linked to things like autoimmune diseases.

• 30:41Jemma Sbeg?

  A study from twenty twenty showed that autoimmune diseases disproportionately affect women in around eighty percent of cases, eight zero. And they often emerge after periods of significant stress and self-silencing. A good example of this is traumatic pregnancies, or things where they've, at times when they've experienced healthcare trauma. There was a health psychologist, her name is Dr. Sula Winsgerson, and she's looked into this more specifically. And she's looked into the impact of suppressing our emotions upon our bodies more specifically. And she notes that suppression is one of the most depleting cognitive responses. It activates these higher-order brain regions, like the prefrontal cortex,

• 31:23Jemma Sbeg?

  which decrease activation in self-emotion processing centers like the amygdala. This leads to increased cortisol secretion, it in, it leads to increased adrenaline, and that can all disrupt immune system functioning, hence the rise of autoimmune diseases. There's still so much research that is ongoing in this space. So much, like, that is probably gonna come out in the next couple of years, but I find it so shocking that being a good girl looks so neat and tidy from the outside, it looks so pretty, but it is wrecking our bodies from the inside out, all for the comfort and peace of others. Beyond the the physical impact, the psychological impact, the immune system impact,

• 32:06Jemma Sbeg?

  there is also a professional cost and a financial cost, a literal monetary cost to being a good girl. One of the most significant costs of this complex is that being liked sometimes seems incompatible with taking up space. And taking up space is often required in this society to get ahead, to increase your surface area for luck, and to access opportunities. If you are constantly trying not to inconvenience anyone, there is a lot of things you won't do. You won't pitch the idea, you won't ask for a raise, you probably won't take credit for your own work, you probably won't call out bad behaviour, you probably won't apply for jobs that you maybe don't think that you're qualified for.

• 32:49Jemma Sbeg?

  Now, over a lifetime, this stacks up in a way that is immeasurable. Missed opportunities that could have changed your life, raises, money, promotions, risks that could have opened entirely new doors, but also missed friendships and missed relationships, and crucially, a missed relationship with who you really are, which is the most critical of all. So the next kind of question to ask is, how do we go about challenging this? Especially when good girl syndrome feels like a friend and feels like it's getting you somewhere. I'm gonna talk about four strategies here. They are, number one, remembering that you are an adult and that you're not in trouble. Number two, the importance of vicarious modelling.

• 33:34Jemma Sbeg?

  Number three, the hidden power of being ugly, which I will explain a little bit more, but I think is very crucial here. And number four, letting others feel responsible for their own emotions, even when it feels uncomfortable, which is critical to this. So let's start at the very top of this list. Number one, remember that you are an adult. You are not a child. You are not somebody who's inferior. No one is more important than you. Nobody is more important than anybody else. You have just as much right to speak your mind, to ask for what you want, and to have opinions as anybody else, even if that doesn't feel natural.

• 34:17Jemma Sbeg?

  And most importantly, once again, you're not in trouble. Nobody is mad at you. I don't know if you've felt this way, but for most of my adult life, I have felt like at any moment someone is gonna turn around and be like, bad girl. They're gonna turn around and be like, you are very disappointing, you're in big, big trouble, like, watch out. We've been watching you. We know what you've done. We've been watching you this whole time. I even have dreams about it sometimes. I have dreams where, like, somebody is scolding me or telling me off. That is good girl syndrome, right there. What this really is, is an anticipation that you will be shamed. And as a good girl, shame is one of the worst things that you can feel. The sense that you've disappointed somebody is so terrible.

• 35:00Jemma Sbeg?

  But also, nobody can make you feel ashamed for something that you have no issue with personally. That's the the secret psychological hack within this all. If I walked up to you and I said, aren't you ashamed to be wearing that shirt? Or aren't you ashamed that you acted that way? You might have a moment where you hesitate and you self-doubt and you look at your shirt and you think back on your actions and you're like, my god, have I done something wrong? But if you assessed your outfit and you assessed your behaviour and you personally found nothing wrong with it, no, you wouldn't feel ashamed. You wouldn't feel ashamed, because by your own standards, you haven't done anything wrong. You'd probably look at me like I had a few things going on in my own head.

• 35:43Jemma Sbeg?

  Your shame around asking for what you want or putting yourself first is equally up to your own interpretation. What is so bad about actually putting your needs first? What is shameful about that? What is so shameful about disappointing somebody? Because otherwise you would be disappointed. You're both equals. What is so bad about saying, I'm actually not happy with that? You are an adult, they're an adult, they can fucking deal with it. Sorry to swear, but they can deal with it. They're not your master, you are not their mother, you are both people who deserve equal respect. So be kind, be respectful, but don't be a martyr.

• 36:25Jemma Sbeg?

  And don't martyr yourself because you think somebody else's disappointment automatically means that you've done something morally wrong. It benefits them to make you feel that way. This is such an important distinction to make, maybe the most crucial. Someone being unhappy with your decision is not the same thing as your decision being bad or being wrong. Someone being annoyed with you is not evidence that you are a horrible person. They have ownership over their reaction. It's okay, like, just repeat after me. I'm not in any trouble. I'm an adult, they're an adult. They can deal with it. Number two, you need a role model who is the antithesis of a good girl.

• 37:10Jemma Sbeg?

  You need a woman who you really respect and who you admire, who doesn't have anything to do with a good girl complex. So why is this so critical? Two words, vicarious modelling. If you are not at this stage yet of being able to retire your former good girl self, if it feels safe to you, the best next thing you can do is to see examples of women who have retired their good girl self and the world has kept turning, if not gotten better for them. Vicarious modelling was first studied by probably one of the most famous men in psychology. If you've done a psychology course, you've heard his name, Albert Bandura. And he essentially realised that a lot of how we learn and change behaviour is by watching.

• 37:53Jemma Sbeg?

  When we see someone do things that we wish we could do, or that we wish we were capable of, our sense of possibility, even like neurologically and psychologically, immediately expands. This is particularly important with good girl syndrome or good girl complex, because so much of it is built on these predictions about what is going to happen if I stop being good. And there is this expectation that if I'm not good, people won't like me, people won't be happy with me, I won't be happy. I'm gonna lose everything, I'm gonna be miserable, I'm gonna lose relationships, opportunities. Maybe, but a role model gives your brain contradictory alternative evidence.

• 38:36Jemma Sbeg?

  You watch a woman say no without providing a full five-minute explanation, and you realise, nothing happened. You watch a woman be vocal, disagree openly with people, and people still respect her. And maybe they don't, and she just doesn't care. Perhaps there are some consequences, but there is so much that she has gained from that. And so the catastrophe that you have been anticipating doesn't seem to emerge the way that you think it would. I also think, just to add to this, you need examples of women who don't just demonstrate that you don't have to be good all the time. You specifically need examples of women who show that being good and being a good person are not the same thing.

• 39:17Jemma Sbeg?

  A good girl is obedient, agreeable, convenient, she's easy to to approve of. A good person can be none of that and still be deeply kind, and still be deeply generous, and still be loved by other people. Being good and being a good girl, not the same thing. Whether it's someone you know, like, maybe not, it could be a celebrity, it could be a woman of history, it could be an author. Honestly, this might be controversial, like, your model could literally be a man who has the ego and confidence that you want. Just have someone in mind as an icon or an example for you. Essentially, as a role model, that, you know, if they can do it, why can't I? How would they behave in this situation? How would they treat

• 39:58Jemma Sbeg?

  this event or this moment where I feel like I have to be good? Would they be good, the way that I think that I need to be? Okay, we need to take one more short break, but when we return, let's talk about the psychological benefits of being ugly and embracing your ugliness as a good girl, and how to leave others to have their own emotional response, especially when that response is, some would say, uncomfortable. So stay with us.

• 40:30Jemma Sbeg?

  These days, there are more people than ever telling you how to manage your health. And we've all gone down an internet rabbit hole exploring the latest health trends. Your social media feed is packed with wellness advice telling you to cold plunge, protein max, detox, track your sleep. But what's actually real? What's exaggerated? What's just wrong? That's exactly what Health Versus Hype from the American Medical Association and iHeartMedia's Ruby Studio is here to find out. Each episode, Emmy nominated science communicator Trace Dominguez, who's racked up billions of views across PBS, Discovery Channel and YouTube, talks to health influencers, real people, and most importantly, doctors,

• 41:15Jemma Sbeg?

  to separate fact from fiction. Because when it comes to your health, who you listen to matters. Listen to Health Versus Hype on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 41:30Jemma Sbeg?

  This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over 14 years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy. All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is, lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark.com.

• 42:07Jemma Sbeg?

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• 42:52Jemma Sbeg?

  that make membership feel rewarding long before takeoff and long after landing. Because SkyMiles is more than a travel program, it is a membership that moves with you. Fly farther, earn every day, redeem your way and access more. Because when your membership is as unique as you are, there's no telling where your next journey will take you. I've been really trying to prioritize my health in a realistic way this year. And something that has kept me really motivated is my Whoop. I am such a data person, which is why I love Whoop, because I can genuinely see why my body feels differently depending on the day, why I'm running differently, why I'm maybe less focused. Whoop effortlessly tracks my sleep, it tracks my strain, my recovery, my stress,

• 43:37Jemma Sbeg?

  and most importantly, my overall health. And it just gives me all that data and all those patterns so I can make better decisions, which includes knowing when to go easy and knowing when to go hard. New members can try Whoop with a 30 day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join.whoop.com/psychology for your free month of Whoop. Growth isn't linear, there's no magic timeline or secret template. And no one understands that quite like Southern New Hampshire University, because SNHU has online degree programs built for whatever path you are on. Tried college before? Transfer up to 90 credits. And if you're new to this, no worries. Every student gets a dedicated academic advisor.

• 44:22Jemma Sbeg?

  And here's the best part, there's no set class times, so school actually fits your life. Ready to get started? Visit SNHU.edu/psych. That's SNHU.edu/psych. So I want to talk about this truly remarkable article that I read the other day from The Atlantic. And the article was titled "The Incredible Freedom of Not Trying to Look Good." In this article, the author is basically saying, "I am an ugly person and being ugly has made me invisible in ways that have allowed me to do things and try things and work at things that I otherwise maybe would not have been able to do

• 45:04Jemma Sbeg?

  if I was preoccupied with being attractive or other people were preoccupied with my looks." Being a good girl and being an attractive girl often go hand in hand. Not always, but a lot of the time. Just like gendered behavior is really tied up in morality, so is beauty and looks. Just like being a good girl is tied up in conformity, so are certain things that we do for our appearance. If being a good girl is all about trying to be pleasing, what's more pleasing than being pretty and nice to look at? You know, if being a good girl means doing things for others,

• 45:45Jemma Sbeg?

  this article basically argues that most appearance-based activities are for others. We can't see ourselves, our body is just a vessel for our soul. Our appearance is for people beyond us and around us. And our appearance is something that we use to hope that they'll treat us better or based on how we portray ourselves. This is why one possible, not the only way, but one possible way of unlearning your good girl tendencies is to conduct a little bit of an experiment and just retire some of your beauty routines for a month. Just a month. Embrace the power of being a little bit of a mess, not being put together all the time. Go to work without makeup.

• 46:29Jemma Sbeg?

  Go out wearing whatever you want, even if it doesn't match, look sloppy. Look sloppy, don't cover up your pimple or your acne, don't get your nails done, don't shave your legs, just for a month. Now, obviously, important disclaimer, if this makes you happy, keep doing it, because then it's about you. But any appointments or any routines or things that you do where you are genuinely like, "This is such a time burden, I can't believe I have to go and pay $50 to get my nails done. I can't believe I have to wear makeup when I'm so tired. I need to do this in order for this person to like me or to get ahead of whatever." And yet it inconveniences me. Anything that follows that pattern of thought, take a break. I did this this year, I would always get my eyelashes done, I would always have like,

• 47:13Jemma Sbeg?

  I literally every four weeks, I would go and sit down and like, they would put fake eyelashes on me for like, three years I would do this. And I would always have like my full acrylic set of nails and I would fake tan once a week. And I just stopped for a while when I was moving to London, kind of incidentally, I didn't have time. And then I stopped deliberately. And it was very, very freeing. It felt, it just felt so nice to be a less put together version of myself and take that time back for me. And my life actually didn't change that much. I think it was this realization, you know, that I don't really owe people attractiveness just because it's nice for them, that really occurred because of this.

• 47:55Jemma Sbeg?

  Sure, it's nice for me and obviously, if you're watching on Netflix, I'm wearing makeup and obviously I've curled my hair and I put effort into my appearance and my nice blue top. But I do that for me, I feel like. I used to feel the shame around my, my appearance at times. Like I used to really feel like if I was ugly or disheveled or like didn't put myself together, like that was a sign of disrespect to somebody else and I was letting them down. I still feel that way sometimes. But I think that unlearning that has also meant like gaining back freedom and time that I wanted for me. Especially these days when we're facing the skinny apocalypse, as they call it, and everyone is getting smaller and smaller and smaller. And you know, the presence of the body positivity movement has kind of somewhat been drowned out.

• 48:40Jemma Sbeg?

  I really think it's important to question, what do I really owe people when it comes to my body and my looks? Do I actually owe them fucking anything? And how may I be trying to fit the good girl mold through my appearance? You might not totally agree with that. It might not be completely relevant for you, but I do think that that article was interesting and I do think it's an interesting correlation between being a good girl, a polite girl, a nice girl, and being an attractive, pretty girl who does certain things based on how others want her to look. So the final thing that we can take from the literature on overcoming good girl syndrome

• 49:22Jemma Sbeg?

  is the most critical, which is to let others sit in their own discomfort rather than trying to fix their feelings. I just think in general, we need to start letting people be responsible for their own emotions. And we kind of need to trust that they have the skills to deal with being disappointed and annoyed and unhappy. And if they don't have the skills yet, well, I don't think you're helping them by preventing them from learning them so late in life. You know, somebody being inconvenienced or upset is A, neither a crime, B, not the end of the world. You do not have ownership over somebody else's emotional reactions. The same way they don't have ownership over yours, even if they make that seem that way or make it feel like you do.

• 50:07Jemma Sbeg?

  This feels, I think, near impossible at the beginning, I'm going to tell you that. It goes against such a deeply held belief for us good girls, which is just don't upset people and everything will be okay. And you know what, I actually think that's a good rule to have. Don't be mean to people, don't upset people. But we're specifically talking about situations where protecting their feelings and not upsetting them comes at the expense of our own feelings. So two questions to ask yourself. You know, if you're worried about upsetting person, is it your intention to harm this person? Or is it your intention to respect yourself? And secondly, is this person actually being harmed? If I'm disappointing them, or are they just uncomfortable? Because I'm no longer behaving in a way that they prefer.

• 50:51Jemma Sbeg?

  I think another thing, sorry, I said two questions. The third thing is like, are they even considering your feelings? In the way that you're considering theirs? Would they ever have as much anxiety and worry about letting you down as you have about letting them down right now? Would they ever give it a second thought? I think maybe it's time to stop being considerate in situations where you were never even being considered. They didn't consider you, they didn't think about you once. You're doing all the thinking. Maybe it would be a healthy lesson for them to learn around just a healthy karmic lesson. This is actually something a therapist of mine once said to me, so I'm just gonna steal it directly from her. Sometimes the nicest thing that you can do for somebody else is to disappoint them.

• 51:37Jemma Sbeg?

  And that seems counterintuitive, but you just can't gentle parent your way through every relationship and hope that they're fruitful. You're just going to be exhausted and your friends, colleagues, partners, strangers. They're not your children. They're not your babies. They're adults who should be able to experience the complexity of human emotion and human needs and how those sometimes contradict. And not throw a tantrum and have the emotional maturity to deal with that. And that was a really helpful reframe for me. You know, it's actually a gift, what a gift it is to be direct with somebody, what a gift it is to let somebody else really know where I stand. What a gift it is to let somebody experience

• 52:22Jemma Sbeg?

  an uncomfortable emotion and take care of it in a way that may actually broaden how they see the world. You know, what a gift to give them emotional responsibility and the kind of emotional complexity that you probably had decades ago. One more psychology term that explains this, uh, cause I think it's really important. Um, this term specifically comes from family psychology. And it's this idea of the differentiation of the self. The differentiation of the self is a state of psychological maturity in which we can distinguish between others' thoughts, feelings, emotions and our own. And we can understand that occasional conflict or the existence of frustration or disappointment in another person

• 53:08Jemma Sbeg?

  does not, will not undermine the relationship if the relationship is healthy. And is also not always about us. Other people's feelings are not always our responsibility. That is probably the most critical thing you can take away from this. You're not in trouble. Other people's emotions are not your responsibility. It is actually a kindness in many ways to let somebody feel and be responsible for their own emotions. The way that you have been for so long. Because it's insane that they could have gone through their entire life not figuring this out already. And often we have to take responsibility for the fact that maybe that's because we didn't let them. And so if we want the relationship, any relationship to

• 53:52Jemma Sbeg?

  evolve on better terms and to be better and more mature. Sometimes we have to just accept that discomfort is a part of relationships. And rushing in and trying to clean up the mess or the messes of everybody else around us is not always the nicest thing that we can do for them and definitely isn't the most helpful thing we can do for us if we're trying to unlearn these very deep, complex behaviors around our worth as a person and how that's wrapped up in us being a good girl. So that, my friends, that's everything. Everything for this episode, everything I have to say for now. If we had the time, I could so go further into some of the feminist psychology that I've been reading about, but there will be links in the description and

• 54:37Jemma Sbeg?

  honestly, the episode could have gone on for two hours. So if you do want a whole episode on feminist psychology, please let me know in the comments. Or you can send me a DM on Instagram, which is at thatpsychologypodcast. If you're interested, or maybe you're not, so then don't message me. But I really appreciate you tuning in for this episode and I hope that if you relate to the characteristics of good girl syndrome or the good girl complex, that this episode has just given you some guidance. Maybe just some solace that it's okay, we're all trying to unlearn this. It's okay if this is how you survived, but somebody being upset at you is, as I said, not a crime and not the end of the world. So I hope you get to experience that freedom.

• 55:21Jemma Sbeg?

  And I hope that, you know, just generally that we are one of the last generations where we'll need to discuss this. And we'll need to discuss kind of the burden of being a good girl and what that does to our own lives. So thank you as always to our researcher Lucy Davidson for her help and research with this episode. If you want more psychology content just like this, you can watch our episodes on Netflix. Or you can follow us on Substack and if you become a paid subscriber, you can receive articles and studies direct to your inbox twice a week, it's literally like the cost of a cup of coffee. You can also leave a five star review or you can send this episode to a friend if you feel called to do so. Especially a friend who you think may relate, maybe in the same boat as you.

• 56:04Jemma Sbeg?

  Maybe they could benefit from it, but until next time, be safe. I was gonna say be kind, but be assertive. Be safe, be assertive, be gentle to yourself and we will talk very, very soon.

• 56:23Jemma Sbeg?

  I've been approaching my health really differently this year. I used to be really focused on maximizing and doing more. And now I'm just realizing that if I listen to what my body needs, I perform way better. And that's why I am obsessed with my Whoop. Truly, you guys, you know, I'm such a data and information driven person. And I love opening my Whoop app and seeing how my sleep, my stress, my strain is correlating with my mood, with my running performance, with how I'm just feeling day to day. I'm not an elite athlete by any means, but I do really benefit. And I also just really enjoy knowing more about my body. And Whoop also gives me these actionable personalized insights

• 57:06Jemma Sbeg?

  that have made me more intentional and meant that I make smarter decisions day to day about what I need, rather than just putting my foot on the gas and just going, going, going, going. New members can try Whoop with a thirty day free trial before committing to a membership. That's join dot whoop dot com slash psychology for your free month of Whoop. This episode is sponsored by Gymshark. Gymshark has spent over fourteen years obsessing over gym clothing and the people who wear it. And let me just say, I think we all know they are very, very good at what they do. No, seriously, their stuff is so good. Their everyday seamless collection is light, it's soft, it's stretchy.

• 57:46Jemma Sbeg?

  All of their stuff just looks good on and it's made for people who love to exercise, whatever exercise that is. Lifting, cardio, Pilates, running around campus, maybe just doing errands. Discover Gymshark and find your new favorite gym clothing at gymshark dot com.

• 58:04Jemma Sbeg?

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• 58:49Jemma Sbeg?

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