Pursue UAP Release #6 - The UFO Files The Government Still Can’t Find

PURSUE Release 6 puts more government UAP material into the public record, including the 1952 Tremonton footage, Edward Ruppelt audio, and documents tied to AAWSAP. Jeremy Corbell and George Knapp examine what the release confirms - and what remains missing. AAWSAP generated a far larger investigative archive, including thousands of pages of material that Robert Bigelow, Dr. James Lacatski and Dr. Colm Kelleher say was delivered to DIA but has yet to surface publicly. Jeremy and George also correct the claim that AAWSAP was simply a $22 million Skinwalker Ranch study, explain what the DIRDs actually were, examine research into reported biological effects from UAP encounters, and revisit Ruppelt’s finding that a significant percentage of UFO cases remained unresolved. The government is releasing more UFO history. The question is where the rest of it is. GOT A TIP? Leave a message for us at +1 (323) 484-4738 Reach out to us at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• MERCH : https://Weaponized-Shop. Fourthwall.com MAIN : https://YouTube.com/@JeremyCorbell CLIPS : https://YouTube.com/@WEAPONIZEDclips MORE : https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• Watch Corbell's six-part UFO docuseries titled UFO REVOLUTION on TUBI here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://tubitv.com/series/300002259/tmz-presents-ufo-revolution/season-2⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Watch Knapp’s six-part UFO docuseries titled INVESTIGATION ALIEN on NETFLIX here : ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://netflix.com/title/81674441⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• You can now watch all of Corbell's movies for free on YouTube here : BOB LAZAR : AREA 51 & FLYING SAUCERS ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/sZaE5rIavVA⁠⁠⁠⁠ HUNT FOR THE SKINWALKER ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/TczkJ6UAQ8A⁠⁠⁠⁠ PATIENT SEVENTEEN ⁠⁠⁠⁠https://youtu.be/gDVX0kRqXxE⁠⁠⁠⁠ ••• For breaking news, follow Corbell & Knapp on all social media. Extras and bonuses from the episode can be found at https://WeaponizedPodcast.com ••• WEAPONIZED is produced by Michael Lazovsky https://MichaelLazovsky.com Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll and workforce management. Built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by people first AI and decades of labor data. UKG turns workforce intelligence into real time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance, and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay and Workforce Management.

• 0:30Speaker 01

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• 1:00Speaker 02

  There's a newly declassified copy of an expense report, a line by line expense report, going through the $22 million that the DIA spent to investigate repeated years-long claims over something called Skinwalker Ranch. Senior White House officials are telling me they cannot find any copy of the records.

• 1:22George Knapp?

  You know, the statements that the White House reached out to the DIA, and gosh darn it, they just can't find any of these OSAP documents. And then there were all these news reports about the dirds. Holy cow, look at these that are out now. So you'll recall, Jeremy, we started releasing dirds in May of 2018.

• 1:42Speaker 04

  When I left, all of our references were electronically, specifically scanned in electronically at DIA.

• 1:58George Knapp?

  This is Weaponized. I'm George Knapp, lounging around here in Las Vegas. Jeremy Corbell, are you lollygagging in Southern California somewhere?

• 2:06Jeremy Corbell?

  Yes, I am. I don't think you're lounging. I think you're working hard. I saw you on a new Bigelow podcast today, so.

• 2:14George Knapp?

  Trying to share the wealth, you know, or keep myself busy and out of trouble. Let's talk about this last release, the sixth tranche that was uncorked on Friday. What did you think? What's your first reaction to it?

• 2:25Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, I mean, look, I love every time that we get new information, or even if older information gets put into the public consciousness directly by our government. Remember when we started releasing stuff, a lot of people were doubting that what we were receiving really was even military film footage. So when, and it all was, but now when our government puts it out, it kind of relieves that pressure. We're like, okay, so this is stuff that we know is legitimate in that it was filmed by our government. And then, you know, let's look at it. So I liked, every time there's a new set of releases, I like it. Now, again, we're seeing a lot of stuff that's not new, but it's bringing into public consciousness in a new way, this information.

• 3:09Jeremy Corbell?

  I think there was like 55 or something like that, PDFs and like 15 videos in this release. So, you know, we're getting substantial, what do you call them, tranches each time. But what they're covering, that's another question.

• 3:24George Knapp?

  You just like saying that word tranches, don't you?

• 3:27Jeremy Corbell?

  I hate that word, man.

• 3:28George Knapp?

  Are there any of those videos that jumped out at you as interesting?

• 3:32Jeremy Corbell?

  You know, well, I've seen a lot of them, and so have you, but no, I wouldn't say anything because, look, it's lacking all the important stuff. It's lacking all of the ability to look at telemetry, to look at speeds, to look at all of that stuff, because they, for some reason, take all that out. If you look at the Weaponized releases, we left most of that in, but in these releases, you don't see that. The one thing that was interesting was, I think you should talk about it. It's something that you had reported on a long time ago, and they put it out like it's new. Can you tell us about that?

• 4:10George Knapp?

  It's the Tremonton, Utah case. I'll get into the details in a minute. I'm with you on the releases. The content itself is not new to anybody who's been around the topic for a while. Don't expect the general public to pay as much attention to these cases and histories as much as we do, or people who live here in UFO world do. So hopefully, it's attracting a broader audience to pay attention to this, because it's put out by the federal government. It has a sort of a feel of an official stamp of approval to it. And even though it may not be new to us, it could very well be new to a lot of people. Seems like the coverage I saw was, hey, new footage comes out.

• 4:52George Knapp?

  And whether or not people want to gripe and complain that this is all old news, the files are old, the videos have been stripped of metadata, we're not being given details, the process itself, to me, is the story, that it is underway, that it's officially being released, that it's in essence, telling the public, pay attention to this. We're not saying it's ETs or anything. In fact, we're specifically not saying it's ETs, but it's important enough that we're going to a lot of trouble to release it. The one that seemed to make a lot of news was this Tremonton case from 1952. New footage released. Well, it's not new.

• 5:29George Knapp?

  If you remember seeing UFOs, the best evidence, the first series I ever did in 1989, Tremonton was one of the cases we used. That footage was used in that 1989 series for TV news. And the case was important, not only because it's interesting images, then, you know, Delbert Newhouse, July 2nd, 1952, he's driving in the desert area north of Salt Lake City. He happens to be a chief, Navy chief, active duty guy, who's a photographic expert. He's got a movie camera, 16 millimeter in his car, jumps out and starts filming these 12 to 16 objects flying in a formation. It appeared to be they were self illuminated or were reflecting light. He didn't know what they were.

• 6:11George Knapp?

  Because he's active duty Navy, the US Navy got the first whack at that footage. They spent 1,000 hours analyzing this footage in these Navy optics labs, and their findings were pretty interesting. You know, they first looked at the idea that maybe they're balloons, maybe they're seagulls. Utah does have seagulls, but these, this was a pretty weird formation. And the bottom line was, they estimated that these things were traveling 300 to 600 miles per hour. That'd be one hell of a super seagull to go that fast, and balloons going that fast? That's a heck of a draft up there, wherever these things were flying. So US Navy looked at it, they thought, we can't identify this.

• 6:53George Knapp?

  You know, we looked at these possibilities and we ruled out balloons and seagulls. Then at Project Blue Book gets a hold of it. And we all know what they were about. You know, their mission was not to solve mysteries, it was to calm the public down. And then it went to something called the Robertson Panel, which was created by the CIA in January of 1953. CIA was a little worried, because 1952 was a heck of a year for UFO sightings. I think the number of cases that came into Blue Book quadrupled or quintupled, a big jump, the over flights over Washington DC that we've talked about before in July of 1952. Then there was the, you know, this case out in Utah and a whole bunch of reports. They figured, we got to get a handle on this.

• 7:36George Knapp?

  So they put together this panel of brainiacs, led by this guy, Professor Robertson from Caltech. They spent a total of maybe 12 hours, stretched out over three days in DC, analyzing the best available evidence that was shared with them, which did not include the best cases that had been collected at the time. And, you know, it's kind of a leisurely schedule, 12 hours over three days. They must have had cocktail hour pretty early in the day. But they concluded, there's just not enough evidence to say what these things are. They reached back into some of the files that had been accumulated by the Navy and Project Blue Book. They saw the word seagull, and they thought, oh, well, we'll go with that one.

• 8:21George Knapp?

  I think Blue Book had also suggested, these are what is known as pillow balloons, which almost is rival swamp gas, I think. Pillow balloons, sounds so soft and nice and cuddly. So the Robertson Panel basically wanted to discredit all of the cases they had looked at. And it is that moment that our national policy of debunking and UFO stigma was born. Because in the end, this panel concluded UFOs are not a threat to national security, but the reporting of UFOs could be a threat. The public might panic and overwhelm communications channels. It might be exploited by our adversaries. So we really need to get a handle on this.

• 9:04George Knapp?

  And they advised a program of public education, propaganda, to, in their words, strip the aura of mystery from UFOs and debunk them. They were talking about getting the Disney Corporation involved to put out a film. They wanted to hire the best known TV personality at the time, a guy named Arthur Godfrey. I think people, most people here are too, too young to remember who that was. And they advised that we should keep an eye on these civilian UFO groups, do surveillance on them. That happened. The stigma became official then. And whether or not it was ever sent out as a memo to the entire US government, that has been the policy of our government ever since, to make fun of UFO witnesses, to discredit

• 9:48George Knapp?

  people from reporting them at all, to establish stigma and not take it seriously. And when they said spy on UFO groups, they did it. There was a group back there, the premier group at the time was called NICAP. And CIA agents infiltrated NICAP. Not only that, they became, elected the officers of NICAP. So, you know, that Tremonton case is legit on its own merits. So I'm glad to see the footage get a lot of exposure, as it should. You know, it's been around a long time, but it's more important, I think, because that was, that represents the birth of the official debunking campaign that still exists in our government.

• 10:27Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, it's like for people that don't understand that history that the UAP subject, what we call UAP now, but UFO was forcibly taken over with misinformation, disinformation and embedding CIA agents in roles of power within things like NIA caput, or these study organizations. You bet your ass it is happening today on a better and more intense level with podcasting and that kind of thing. So we are living in a very similar time now than was going on back then where UFOs are now popular, it's in popular culture and our government needed to take control of that somehow. And, you

• 11:07Jeremy Corbell?

  know, I sit here myself today and realize the popularity brings with it that government influence and, you know, it is happening today like it was then. Interesting in this new release, there was the RuPaul's audio from 1952. So Air Force, it was a lecture and I listened to most of it. He was talking about how about 20% were unresolved, but what really struck me about listening to that audio is how familiar it sounds, you know, 74 years later. And, you know, you've got trained witnesses, large numbers of reports, but yet insufficient data and this stubborn percentage where it's unresolved. And, you

• 11:49Jeremy Corbell?

  know, we see the same thing today. Anytime any agency is looking, they can explain away a number of things, but there's this problematic data set where a witness says, oh no, there was a huge flying saucer. It was right next to me. And guess what? There were beings in it. And you get accounts like that where there's trace case evidence or biological issues that people get and you can't just walk away from it and say that's resolved. So the vocabulary has kind of changed over the years. The bureaucracies dealing with it have changed to a degree, but the fundamental question has not changed. And that is, you know, who is operating these machines that can do, you know, what they can do? Now,

• 12:31Jeremy Corbell?

  I don't have that answer. You don't have that answer, but it is still the prominent question here.

• 12:37George Knapp?

  I guess I'm encouraged that these new releases, they're at least not officially debunking them. They're putting them out as unresolved. We don't know what these things are. I think some of these videos that they have been putting out, they're not sharing analysis that's been done by the US government, by Arrow and other agencies, even though, you know, we can't always trust their conclusions. I think there are cases that can be explained that have been explained and they're releasing these things anyway with no data, which is, you know, kind of sneaky. I understand it. It seems like they should issue videos of the ones that are truly unresolved. And they do still say in this release and in previous

• 13:19George Knapp?

  releases, including the the Tremonton analysis, that had officially been debunked behind the scenes, but at least now they'll say, well, there's no evidence it's extraterrestrial. Well, you know, yeah, duh. You know, what would that evidence look like? There's no evidence it's extraterrestrial. You don't have to, that's not necessarily the conclusion of, you know, the only conclusion you can draw from what these things are, right?

• 13:43Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, you know, this is interesting. Like where can you find the footage? There was something that happened really under radar to people and I want to make sure to highlight it a little bit, which is that the New York Post is a guy named Shane and he wrote an article about this triangle shaped craft. It was over a military base, which you and I have heard a bunch, George, coming from Dylan Borland, from Daniel Gokorrel, who didn't get to testify, but came unweaponized. They wanted him to testify, but he didn't. It's all about these huge triangles. Well, this reporter Shane was given a tip. And by the way, I happen to know it was a good tip. There was something called IRRs, it's Intelligence Information Reports. But in his New York Post article, he actually labeled

• 14:25Jeremy Corbell?

  them by number. So you can't get out of that. You know, when you put print the actual number of the, they call them IRR reports, Intelligence Information Reports. Man, you know, you had to get a response. So there was a guy named Joel Valdez. He's the Deputy Pentagon Press Secretary for the Department of War and really, really nice guy, seems really on it. He immediately responded on X. He's like, we're going to look at this with pursue. And if there's anything there, we're going to put it out. And I happen to know that guy is legit. Like he, if he says that, he's going to, he's going to attempt to do that. He did then publish, this is later now, back on X, that they were unable to find anything of value associated. So he couldn't find those videos. So when pursue

• 15:09Jeremy Corbell?

  or, or they, his group, his team went to ask, guess who they had to ask? OSI, right? Air Force. Hey, can you show me the video, cell phone footage where there's a triangle 100 feet away, about 100 feet wide or something like that? And they said, well, we couldn't, we couldn't find it. So it's hard for me to fathom that. I just want to like really nail this because this really flew under the radar. So go read the article. But, and I believe Joel, I believe him that they said, nothing to see here. Sorry, wish we had something for you to see. I don't think that he, I know that he was not being deceptive in any way. He's actually trying to get the information. But I will say again, it was OSI that didn't

• 15:53Jeremy Corbell?

  provide the information. And here's where it sticks with me, is that I am familiar with those IIRs and I know those numbers and I know that the videos were not enclosed within those IIRs. But there was a paragraph at the end, if you ever get to see these reports, there's a paragraph at the end and it's, it's saying, if you want the footage, you have to go to the OSI office in Colorado Springs, Coppins of the South. So it's like, it was, it was kind of like really cool that this guy in a position of power went and asked OSI for the footage. But I do not accept that because there is that last paragraph

• 16:38Jeremy Corbell?

  in there saying, if you want the footage, this is where you have to go. But there's no footage. Now, of course, they're not going to release footage, especially-

• 16:45Speaker 00

  UKG is the workforce operating platform with unified HR, payroll and workforce management. Built to solve the unique challenges of frontline work. Powered by people-first AI and decades of labor data, UKG turns workforce intelligence into real-time decisions around staffing, pay, compliance and productivity, enabling every worker to confidently take action as work happens. Because when work works, everything works. Learn more at ukg.com/work. UKG, HR, Pay and Workforce Management.

• 17:16Speaker 01

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• 18:46Jeremy Corbell?

  If it's something we're working on in the United States of a gigantic, triangle-shaped, silent hovering craft. I mean, that would be bad because we'd be showing our enemies too. But they just said that they couldn't find it. And that, that's, that sticks with me. I want people to look at that story.

• 19:01George Knapp?

  Yeah, that's a cool story.

• 19:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah.

• 19:03George Knapp?

  It seems like we can't find stuff became a key response from the government in regarding what was released last Friday. It certainly applies to the OSAP documents, you know, of course, you know, the, the statements that the White House reached out to the DIA and gosh darn it, they just can't find any of these OSAP documents. And then there were all these news reports about the dirds. Holy cow, look at these that are out now. Dirds, these new documents associated with OSAP. Hey, I'm glad that national news outlets are now paying attention to OSAP because for a long time Pentagon said it didn't exist and then it said it had nothing to do with UFOs. And really, it doesn't spell out what

• 19:46George Knapp?

  the program is in any of the material that's come forward. And if someone were just looking at the dirds, they'd have no idea in hell what was being studied there. But it all makes sense if you have some context. So you'll recall, Jeremy, we started releasing dirds in May of 2018.

• 20:04George Knapp?

  I had gone to Washington and met with Senator Harry Reid. He was helpful in securing a certain amount of information. And I had permission to go ahead and start releasing it. And I didn't do it all at once. It was like one at a time. Our friend Danny Silva, the Silva Record, would later write a brief history of the dirds and when they appeared. There had been like two out in the wild floating around. Nobody knew what program they were associated with. There's no clear indication they have anything to do with UFOs, UAP. But they were two of the 38 dirds that were produced by OSAP. And, you know, those reports looked into interesting scientific mysteries and challenges that would be going forward 40 or 50 years.

• 20:45George Knapp?

  So like hypersonic objects, how to track hypersonic objects. And I recall when that particular dirt was made public, there were scientific organizations that poked fun at it. What kind of crap is this? It's some futuristic sci fi stuff. It has no value. Well, it certainly has value now, and it proves that OSAP was way ahead of its time. I had interviewed a professor of engineering here at UNLV who wrote that paper. Now, he had no idea he was writing a paper for the DIA. That OSAP, the program that encountered him and asked him to do it, was working for DIA on UFO mysteries. He wrote it as a scientist, an interesting paper on the future of hypersonics.

• 21:28George Knapp?

  And then years, a decade later, we have the Russians, Putin boasting that they have hypersonic missiles that cannot be stopped. They're too fast to track. And it, you know, that we now have multiple programs across the federal government, Department of War, and contractors to develop our own hypersonic systems. And I'm glad, you know, that that paper by itself demonstrates why it was valuable to do the kind of research that was done. So you and I released, I released some dirds. You and I went to Joe Rogan's show on time and gave him two of them on the air, on camera. And then subsequently, other people would get a hold of them and release them. And I'm glad that they're out there.

• 22:13George Knapp?

  I'm glad that people see they're all there, that they were part of that OSAP program, confirming the program was real. But you need a lot of context to understand what the heck they were trying to do, to establish a baseline. What's real now? What might we humans be able to do 40 or 50 years down the road? And it allows you to figure out when there are UFO type cases, hey, this is not us. We didn't do this. You know, it allows analysis of particular cases that stand out that, hey, this is something else. This is somebody else's technology. So I'm glad to see those dirds out there acknowledged, even though they've been out for quite some time. We've got them on Mystery Wire, a whole bunch of them, maybe all of them posted there by now, and they've been there for years.

• 22:58Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, so for those people that remember our reporting, it's the dirt is the Defense Intelligence Reference Document. And in the UFO program, which was called OSAP, Advanced Aerospace Weapon Systems Applications Program.

• 23:11George Knapp?

  Right.

• 23:11Jeremy Corbell?

  Part of what they did was they produced these, I think it was 37.

• 23:16George Knapp?

  38.

• 23:18Jeremy Corbell?

  38. Okay. Yeah. And so this was like, for the first time, our government in its own kind of reporting system is acknowledging that OSAP was a UFO program, what it actually did, and that our government paid for it. So they released, you know, now through Pursue, they released some of the basics, right? But they did not release all the information. All they're releasing is stuff that was already kind of out there in the wild, but now it's hitting popular culture. A friend of mine for Fox, Peter Doocy, you know, he did do a news report where he even mentions Skinwalker Ranch.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  There's a newly declassified copy of an expense report, a line by line expense report, going through the $22 million that the DIA spent to investigate repeated years long claims over something called Skinwalker Ranch, claims of extra things in the sky, UFOs, UAPs. Harry Reid, before he passed away, this was in 2008, got $22 million to investigate this. Officials now are telling me, senior White House officials are telling me, they cannot find any copy of the records. They've got all the proof that this government contractor was spending $22 million to do this investigation.

• 24:36Speaker 02

  But when folks high up at the White House who can just pick up the phone and say, I need a copy of those records, make the call, they are being told that if these records were created, they are either lost or something happened to them. Somebody has them, they are not available to White House officials right now.

• 24:54Jeremy Corbell?

  So he's new to it as well, because everybody's basically new to it unless you're deep in it like you are, and I am. But it was really neat to see him talk about it because what he was, what was reported to him was that they cannot find all of the associated documentation. Now, that's something you've reported on for a long time, George, but it's so good to see it now in the mainstream news. They're asking that question. Did any of this have to do with Skinwalker Ranch? How much of it had to do with it? What are these, you know, 37, 38 dirds? But where's the rest of the data? And I was thinking, maybe you could help people understand that, is where is the rest of the government's study on UFOs, all that data?

• 25:34George Knapp?

  Well, that's a good question. I can understand why people would ask it, and we have answered it before. In fact, on this program, we interviewed Jim Lekatsky a couple of times. He was the designer of the program, along with Jay Stratton, created OSAP. He was the active duty director of the entire program.

• 25:53Speaker 04

  I will say this, though, that when I left, all of our references were electronically, specifically scanned in electronically at DIA. Now, I can't say what happened in the years since I retired in 2016. It could have been that they're purged, but they weren't physical records. So I don't see why there is a problem in people asking for them.

• 26:23George Knapp?

  He worked with Colin Kelleher, who was the, Dr. Colin Kelleher was the, at Bass, he was sort of the hands on manager of the program on this end in Las Vegas. Those guys know more about it than anyone. They oversaw not only the, and were involved with the dirds, but all the other reports that were produced for OSAP. It's a gigantic pile of information. The White House is quoted as saying, we reached out to DIA and they can't find any. Anything they have about OSAP is already on their website. It's public. You know, I don't know how hard the White House pushed for it, but I don't believe that the DIA is lying. I think that they have been, had so many FOIA requests and requests by Congress, hey, where are these other reports for OSAP?

• 27:07George Knapp?

  Because it's good stuff in there. There's really good information in there, very interesting. They've asked, but DIA says, we can't find them, everything we've got. I believe them. I don't believe they're hiding it. I just think that wherever it's stashed, it's really hard to locate. And Dr. Jim Lekatsky is a smart guy. Maybe he had a plan for putting it somewhere out of the obvious avenues that would be searched. But, you know, I know that those reports were delivered to DIA. There's no question about it. Talked to Robert Bigelow and Colin Kelleher within the last couple of days. They said, we delivered everything that was requested and required of us in our contract with DIA. They got it.

• 27:50George Knapp?

  And if it's ever going to be released, it has to come from DIA. Bigelow, if he can find his copies of the documents, cannot release them on his own. Now, maybe if President Trump, whom he knows personally and has supported, if the president were to call him up and say, hey, I want you to release this, I hereby officially authorize it, maybe Mr. Bigelow would go ahead and go along with that. But until he gets an order from DIA, he's not going to release it. He's the contractor. He had a contract signed that he still feels he's subject to, the conditions, he's not allowed to release that stuff. So it's up to DIA to release it. And to release it, they first have to find it. And I think they're being honest when they say, we can't find it here, but it's there somewhere.

• 28:35George Knapp?

  And if you want to know what's in it, I mean, we wrote three books about it. It took a long time to get the approval of DIA, CIA, and other agencies through the Dobbs process. Skinwalkers at the Pentagon spells it out. Colin Kelleher, Jim Lekatsky, they even had a little role for me in that book, had a subsequent one. And then Jim Lekatsky put out another book that goes into detail about it. It pretty much spells out what's in those pages. And it's 70,000 pages that were condensed to 7,500 pages. There are difficulties. If they can find it, they're going to have to clean it up because a lot of the witnesses who shared information with DIA didn't want their names attached. And then there is very sensitive health information.

• 29:18George Knapp?

  And I've seen people discuss online, well, use AI and get those names out of there. Well, that's a good idea. That's a tool that wasn't always available to DIA. But in order to use it, they first have to find it. And I believe them, they haven't found it yet.

• 29:33Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, and they have to be motivated to do that. I mean, it's just cool to see that the Pentagon itself is now publishing OSAP material through the UAP, you know, kind of disclosure mechanism called Pursue. It is cool to see that. It is making a broader amount of people aware of it. It's allowing people to ask questions that they couldn't ask before. There's a misconception, though, that I've noticed is people are wondering if the 22 million was focused all on Skinwalker Ranch. And that was a small part of it. They did study UAP. They did study UFOs. They did a ton of technical reports. But can you kind of hit on that? Was it, you know, was the 22 million fully devoted to Skinwalker Ranch, George?

• 30:13George Knapp?

  No, of course not. No. Skinwalker Ranch was sort of the inspiration of program because Jim Lekatsky and Jay Stratton and different offices of DIA keep seeing these weird reports of UFOs over US military bases, sensitive installations over missile silos and things of that sort. And they both realized at the same time, hey, we've got a problem here. What can we do? And they happened to read Hunt for the Skinwalker. And they realized, hey, this place in Utah has a regular occurrence of UFO sightings over a long period of time. Maybe we'll go out there and look. And if we were to have some sort of a program approved, that would be a place to focus some resources, which is eventually what happened. But Skinwalker

• 30:54George Knapp?

  Ranch, because it was conveniently owned by Bigelow, and DIA could access it, and DIA and other agencies could access it for purposes of a study, became a convenience. It was not the focus. There are four or five of the documents that have not been released that mentioned the ranch. There's one report that's a fairly substantial report that focused primarily on the ranch. And then there are monthly reports that mentioned occurrences there and witnesses that they had talked to. But it was not the focus of OSAP. Half of the budget of OSAP went to the creation of the data warehouse that was overseen by Jacques Vallée, Capella, they called him. About half of that money went to that program. There was also a chunk

• 31:37George Knapp?

  of the money that was paid to the scientists and engineers who wrote the dirts. And then there were travel expenses. Investigators went all over the place to be boots on the ground, talk to witnesses, investigate sightings, investigate videos, went to foreign countries to collect their UFO files. So they did a lot of stuff. Skinwalker might be the most famous part of what OSAP did, because it's now a TV series and is well known all over the world. And you produced a film about it. But it was not the main focus by any means, not even close.

• 32:10Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah. And so I think also the other thing that people are kind of misunderstanding is just because there were these papers that were commissioned on like warp drives and wormholes and that kind of thing. It doesn't mean that the government built that or has those capabilities. And these were projections all the way up to 2050 of what could be possible. So the extraordinary part is kind of the scope of the inquiry. It's not that they were creating these things. And I fear a lot of people are starting to make that claim. That is not the case, to the best of my knowledge, at all.

• 32:39George Knapp?

  No, no, you're right. You know, DIA's job is to evaluate potential breakthrough technologies that could be a threat to us. And if somebody else is developing it, somebody had craft that could do things that we can't do, they saw it as a possible threat, not an impending invasion, or lasers wiping out the White House. But that's their job, is to evaluate threats and to evaluate where technology might be down the road. Could we develop technology like this? That was the main focus of it. They don't have UFOs and UAPs mentioned in the documents. So it gives rise to a lot of people able to say, this has nothing to do with that topic. It was a UFO program. Senator Harry Reid authorized-

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• 34:21George Knapp?

  As the money said it was UFO program, Robert Bigelow, who got the contract, says it was UFO program. Jim Lekatsky, who was the director of it, says it was a UFO program. Colin Kelleher, Jay Stratton on down the line. People can deny it if they want, but they left those terms out on purpose. They didn't want other people at the Pentagon or CIA to know what they were doing. It was a closed program. Only a handful of people inside DIA knew what was going on. So, you know, and they did that on purpose. And once the word got out that it was underway, that's when the knives came out and when the program was killed.

• 34:55Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, Dr. Lekatsky said that on our show, that it was wholly a UFO program in that they specifically used certain wording to not raise red flags and get kind of under fire by other people in the DIA. You know, if people thought it was demonic or something weird like that, they wanted to fly under the radar so they could do the work. One of the papers, one of the Defense Intelligence Reference documents that always stuck with me is something where they're not just projecting what something's going to be like in the future, but it was the biological effects part of that series of papers, because they had good data of what it was like for human beings to be harmed by close proximity to

• 35:35Jeremy Corbell?

  UAP. So they already had UFO data sets they were obviously working from in order to create that dird. And that one is pretty haunting if you've ever read it.

• 35:46George Knapp?

  Oh, yeah, I've read it. I read it early on. And, you know, of all the dirds that I released personally, that was the one I really had second thoughts about. There was one of those 38 that was classified, and I wasn't going to release that. But that one, I realized would be, that would really stir things up quite a bit. And so I didn't post it anywhere or release it until somebody else got it and put it out widespread all over the world. And, you know, it's pretty disturbing stuff. Some of those things that happen to people are very real. And the OSAP team, which had medical doctors and experts, health experts, tracked some of those witnesses who had these health effects from being in the proximity of UFOs and UFO related phenomena, tracked it for a couple of years until the

• 36:31George Knapp?

  program ended. And it's kind of spooky. I mean, it's spooky stuff. It's out there now. Again, it's on our Mystery Wire collection of the dirds, but it wasn't one that I released. Because it causes you to pause and think about what is the nature of the relationship between us and them, whoever they are.

• 36:51Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah. Well, listen, I'm hopeful now that people are asking the right questions. I happen to know you got a text from Congress over the weekend. You probably missed it.

• 37:01George Knapp?

  No, no, I still-

• 37:03Jeremy Corbell?

  Okay, but you did, because they want to get more information about the OSAP program, about the dirds, about Skinwalker Ranch, and what was studied, and what can be found as far as this stuff. So, you know, it's good they're looking for it. The more information we can get into them, the better. And yeah, man, let's just keep it going and see where we're all this good. I really hope, I really hope that the public is going to see better quality UAP footage. But they need to be asking for satellite footage. That's the missing element, if you ask me, is the satellite imagery, high resolution of some UAP.

• 37:41George Knapp?

  I'm with you on that. I suspect you might even know where some of it is.

• 37:45Jeremy Corbell?

  I totally don't.

• 37:47George Knapp?

  Sorry. I don't want to get more taps on your phone or something. Yeah, there's no room on that phone for more taps. Yeah, you're right. I mean, I don't know-

• 37:55Jeremy Corbell?

  Again.

• 37:57George Knapp?

  It's not perfect. The Pursue project is not perfect. We're getting a lot of stuff that's already out. But when you release it from the government, it carries more weight, even if it's the same information that's been out there for a while. So especially the involvement of the FBI, that is encouraging to me. And the fact that it is released to so many news outlets, and there are news outlets who are paying attention to it, that's encouraging as well. But there's a heck of a lot still that has not been released. And then, none of this stuff that we've seen in any of these six tranches have been anything close to, here's the bodies and here's the downed crafts. We're still waiting-

• 38:36Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, I'm just, you know, kind of remaining optimistic only because, you know, behind the scenes, people have really told Pursue what we want to see, you know, file names, that kind of thing. I am now curious if the next dump they're going to do, they're really showing us stuff that we didn't expect, we didn't ask for. I mean, is that where they start getting creative and like really going in and getting stuff that the public is interested in? And I hope so. I have no idea. But I suspect the next release will tell a lot, to me at least, of what the intention is behind it.

• 39:11George Knapp?

  I'd love to know who it is making the call. There's got to be somebody in charge of making a call that this is what we're going to put out in this batch. If there's some kind of an organized plan, a long range plan for what gets released next, or if they're just rolling a cart down the middle of the office building and people throw stuff in it, and that's what they put out, I don't know. But I'd really like to know who's making that call. There's got to be a person at the top of that organization somewhere. But it's a fascinating process to watch. And no matter what they release, there's a news story one way or another in it. And it's, it's, it's an exciting time for the topic, I think, regardless of the quality of the stuff that comes out.

• 39:52Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah. And we need to get more transparency on that. We tried, we got completely shut down and denied by the Pentagon of any information when we asked the harder questions. About, tell us the basic structure of Pursue. Tell us who specifically people can go to, who's in control, who's the team working on this. But I think I got a lead on that, so I'm going to pursue that. And if there's something, you know, we can report on Weaponized, we'll- but there are friendlies within that organization that would like to have a little more transparency to the American public. So I'm going to nudge that in the next couple of weeks and see where that goes. But-

• 40:25George Knapp?

  Hey, that great FOIA request you sent to the Department of War, yeah, you didn't get answers. You did get a response, though. You couldn't quote the person who was responding to you. That's a, that's a huge jump from where we have been before. I haven't been able to get a response at all to any inquiries that I've said for a number of years. I just, I kind of quit. But you got a response. That's a plus.

• 40:49Jeremy Corbell?

  Yeah, that's a plus. Well, we'll see where we go next. Anyway, man, you take care. Talk soon. And it's nice talking.