John Cena, Vol. III

John Cena is back! For John’s third time on the podcast, he and Josh chat all about his new film MATCHBOX THE MOVIE, the future of PEACEMAKER, and even look back at his wrestling career–including that iconic heel turn in 2025. Plus, the first time he met James Gunn, his relationship with Dwayne Johnson, his take on a new FAST & FURIOUS movie, & more! SUPPORT THE SHOW BY SUPPORTING OUR SPONSORS! Rula -- Rula patients typically pay $15 per session when using insurance. Connect with quality therapists and mental health experts who specialize in you at https://www.rula.com/happy #rulapod Quince -- Go to ⁠Quince.com/HAPPYSAD ⁠for free shipping and 365-day returns. Limited Time Offer–Get Huel today with my exclusive offer of 15% OFF online with my code happy15 at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://huel.com/happy15.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ New Customers Only. Thank you to Huel for partnering and supporting our show! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy, you might be dehydrated. Whether it's hot yoga, over 100 degree weather, or too much sun. Gator Light with a specialized blend of five electrolytes was scientifically designed to help move fluids into the body faster for rapid rehydration. Shop now at retailers nationwide. Gator Light hydrates faster than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 0:53Speaker 02

  James, they built this huge beach in Atlanta and like they built a fucking beach in a back lot. And it, James is like 500 yards away with a megaphone shouting stuff. He's like, oh no, stop, wait, just come over. No, no. Came over and was like, hey, just, just be a douchey bro-y Captain America.

• 1:14Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins.

• 1:22Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Today on the show, John Cena. He's one of the biggest actors on the planet. He's one of the biggest human beings on the planet. He's here on the podcast for the third time. He's always a fascinating conversation and this one is no different. Thanks guys, as always, for checking out the podcast. Remember to hit that subscribe button on YouTube, on Spotify, however you're doing it. I don't care, just do, do the thing. You know what to do. And remember, if you like what I do, check out our Patreon, patreon.com/happysadconfused. Early access to every single episode of Happy Sad Confused and bonus materials, access to our live events and so much more. Patreon.com/happysadconfused. Okay, so let's talk John Cena for a second. Um, this guy's fascinating. He delivers fascinating interviews.

• 2:07Josh Horowitz?

  Pearls of wisdom just rip off of him. He is a deep thinker. He doesn't take anything lightly, his work, these conversations. This one is I think our third round of Happy Sad Confused with John and he always surprises me in the best possible way. Yes, we talk about his new movie, Matchbox, the movie, which is super fun and entertaining. It's on Apple TV this week. Check it out. But also we go into, I don't know, his approach to life and career and balancing it all. He talks about, you know, taking a stab at acting in 2006, 20 years ago and failing, frankly failing and being given a second chance in more recent years. We talk a lot about James Gunn and Peacemaker. We talk about the end of his wrestling career at length.

• 2:48Josh Horowitz?

  He goes in deep about why he decided to leave when he did and how it all went down. And is really reflective in the best possible way. I always learn a ton talking to John about his life, but also just life in general. And I'm always just so appreciative that one of the busiest men on the planet comes on this little podcast. So I think you guys are going to enjoy this. I know I did. Here we go. Me and the one and only John Cena. Enjoy. John Cena, you're back on the podcast.

• 3:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, thanks so much.

• 3:16Josh Horowitz?

  I appreciate you always. I was just saying, uh, time is the most valuable commodity as far as I'm concerned. And you've been very generous with your time over the years with me. So I thank you, buddy. Appreciate you.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  Back and I apparently didn't ruin it enough to be asked back. So thank you so much.

• 3:30Josh Horowitz?

  We're going to get you into the five timers club. This is your third time on the podcast.

• 3:33Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:34Josh Horowitz?

  You get a free hat when you're on five times, John.

• 3:37Speaker 02

  All right. Okay, I got something to strive for.

• 3:40Josh Horowitz?

  Doesn't feel like.

• 3:41Speaker 02

  Love the gamification of that. I like that.

• 3:43Josh Horowitz?

  Just trying, whatever I can do. Um, congratulations on the movie. We're going to cover that and many things today. Matchbox, the movie is the film. Last time I saw you, San Diego Comic Con.

• 3:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's when we debuted the trailer.

• 3:55Josh Horowitz?

  That was a fun one.

• 3:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was.

• 3:56Josh Horowitz?

  Um, okay. So talk to me like you might be the busiest man in showbiz. That's what, that's what it seems like to me from the outside looking in. Like, can you give me some perspective? Like, since I saw you in July, have you shot something? Have you traveled the world? Have you taken some time off? Like we're, what's John's life been? Yeah.

• 4:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. Oh, um, I don't know, man. I think we're all, we're all busy in our own right.

• 4:19Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 4:20Speaker 02

  Just, uh, it is so, uh, sports cliche, but I'm just trying to handle it one day at a time.

• 4:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. I mean, you seem to me like someone that's like kind of unflappable. Like you can kind of handle the big things, the crazy things, the silly things. Like you're always kind of even keel. And maybe that's part of that is just, you know, part of like projecting something out into the universe. But I don't know, would friends and family say John is kind of an even keel kind of guy? Or do you have your ups and downs like the rest of us?

• 4:45Speaker 02

  I think they would definitely say I'm human and um,

• 4:52Speaker 02

  goodness, I think stubbornness, sternness, some of my, some of the strengths that got me opportunities are also the biggest weaknesses I have.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  I, I think maybe

• 5:05Speaker 02

  because I've been lucky enough to be able to be creative for a long time. I understand that not only will it end, also that more than likely one mess up, one slip up won't be the end. You are not defined by one action alone.

• 5:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 5:26Speaker 02

  You can piss a lot of people off. They'll talk about you for a week or a month or whatever. But your body of work will, will speak for itself from a professional standpoint. And, and let's take that outside professionalism. If we're friends and I do something to piss you off, but we're really close friends. You'll talk shit maybe for a week or a month.

• 5:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 5:45Speaker 02

  And then we'll, we'll go on in our friendship. You know what I'm saying? So you're like one, I, I guess I know that like I am going to fuck up and to try to take those with grace. And also when, when people upset me, are their intentions malicious? So they're just trying to do the best they can.

• 6:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:04Speaker 02

  Where did we miss? What am I really mad about? And can I course correct? Like, you know what I mean?

• 6:11Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, totally. I mean, is that, is that a warning that you had to come to after many years?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  So like I said, I think that is a byproduct of me being lucky enough to be in the creative space or in this space where I'm consistently interacting with individuals.

• 6:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  Um, I'm in the service business. Um, you have to make relationships immediately. Well, you get to make relationships immediately, some that you might not ever see again. Um, we're all in it together, although we're all in it for selfish reasons. You know, I want to keep working and I want the movie to be a success for my castmates.

• 6:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 6:45Speaker 02

  And then I gotta do it again, or I get to do it again with other castmates and, and another movie and project.

• 6:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 6:51Speaker 02

  I don't know. I'm, I'm, I think, I think it has a lot to do with the amount of time. You know, it's like that.

• 6:59Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, it's perspective.

• 7:00Speaker 02

  That old person who's like super wise when the young kids are like, oh man, you know, nothing. And the, you know, the guy knows everything, but it's just the amount of time he's had to live. You know what I'm saying?

• 7:10Josh Horowitz?

  Were there times early on when like you did fuck up and you thought this would have like lasting repercussions?

• 7:16Speaker 02

  I, that moment where if we look at what like a mess up is, uh, or a fuck up. A fuck up defined by me is when I'm completely acting outside of my values.

• 7:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Betraying your own.

• 7:32Speaker 02

  When I am walking the talk.

• 7:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 7:34Speaker 02

  If, if, if you don't jive with me, change the radio station because I'm, I'm walking the talk. I believe a true mess up is when you go outside of that. That's when you feel like, ah, man, I wasn't myself. I begin to feel guilt and I begin to feel shame.

• 7:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 7:50Speaker 02

  Or if one of your values becomes obsolete, I'm holding on to this value.

• 7:56Josh Horowitz?

  Just out of stubbornness.

• 7:57Speaker 02

  Bringing me down a wrong path. It's, it's making me go against all the other ones.

• 8:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:02Speaker 02

  So I think behavior in that sort of aspect is where guilt and shame comes in. And like, so when we have those moments of effing up, you, your question was like, does it feel like the end of the world? That's the immediate nervous reaction for me.

• 8:16Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:16Speaker 02

  You know, is, is this it? Is this how the story ends?

• 8:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  Also, I'm in an occupation that's fragile. I also know it will end and I also know the end is beyond my control. If I have my own story to paint and doing it on my own terms, I'd like to do this forever. When I retired from WWE, everybody's like, man, you're doing it on your own terms. Bullshit. I want to do it forever. I, I know that it's time to go. It is within my values. I said, I want to do good work and I want to leave doing good work. But my own terms are to do it infinitely. Like I want to continue to do it. But I gotta be realistic and look at the math and be like, okay, it's time to, to step away.

• 8:53Josh Horowitz?

  It's funny because you said that to me many times. I've heard you say it to other people and not many people in your position talk about it being like, having an endpoint. I think we all kind of like have the delusion, the hope that we can continue on forever, be immortal, be viable.

• 9:09Speaker 02

  And, and that, what a, what a goal to shoot towards, right? You never know the, the events and what we're going to discover all the way. At this point, that is delusional because there has never been a human being to do that. So that is delusional. I think starting there of like, hope is a great word to keep for that concept.

• 9:32Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 9:33Speaker 02

  I hope within my lifetime, maybe we crack the code. The reality that we live in is that is delusional. So, starting with, I'm gonna die. That's not a morbid thing.

• 9:46Josh Horowitz?

  It's.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Perspective of that thing could be morbid.

• 9:49Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 9:50Speaker 02

  I like saying, it is gonna end, cuz, man, when I wake up and it's a sunny day in New York in October, and I look around with the skyscrapers and the lights bouncing off the, I'm like, it's a beautiful day. Like, and I'm not perfect with that. Boy, there is a wrong side of the bed that I live on quite often, and I'm sometimes slow getting to altitude. And there are sometimes moments of crisis in my life. I'm a human fucking being. But I think knowing that you don't have all the time in the world, also knowing that your end is beyond your control.

• 10:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:22Speaker 02

  Life expectancy is just an average of everybody combined. So, it could be tomorrow, you know? Still having joy in your life with that uncertainty and making choices for like, I could, I could not do hard drugs, and that puts the math in my favor. I could not continue to fall down and put my body through physical punishment. That's gonna put the math in my favor.

• 10:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right. It's not a certainty, but at least it's steering it in the right direction.

• 10:49Speaker 02

  Sure, sure. But that concept of like, this thing will end.

• 10:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 10:55Speaker 02

  I, I don't look at that pessimistically. I look at that, be like, dude, enjoy it while you're here. And to be able to end chapters. I, I know my, my professional career is also not what totally defines me as a human. I got so much more to give. I got so much more curiosity out there, so much more things to see.

• 11:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Like, so what? So, you're, what are you working on now? Nothing. And that's an okay answer, but in our, in our industry, it's always like, gotta be busy, gotta have something, gotta, what are you developing? What's going on? Eh, man, I don't know.

• 11:27Josh Horowitz?

  No, and I'm guilty of it as anybody, like.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  We're all guilty.

• 11:30Josh Horowitz?

  When you came in here, I was like, wait, John doesn't have a project he's doing next. Like, what's going?

• 11:35Speaker 02

  And, and it took me up until like, right now, a few years ago.

• 11:41Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  To say that's okay.

• 11:42Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 11:43Speaker 02

  It's okay.

• 11:44Josh Horowitz?

  It's more than okay, it's required.

• 11:46Speaker 02

  The maxims that are thrown around of like, make hay while the sun shines, answer the phone while it's ringing, like, you gotta get on the next one. Like, it is, it's, it's, in many aspects, it's a mercenary business. And like, you don't know where your next paycheck's coming from. The industry continues to change and evolve.

• 12:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 12:01Speaker 02

  That's from the advent of the first time they put something on silent movies to like, right where we're at now. I mean, nobody understands it. I don't know where the, where the next one's coming from. You just, you try to do the best you can and hope, and hope they ask you back.

• 12:17Speaker 02

  More Happy, Sad, Confused coming up.

• 12:22Speaker 05

  Starting or growing your own business can be intimidating and lonely at times. Your to-do list may feel endless with new tasks, and lists can easily begin to overrun your life. So, finding the right tool that not only helps you out, but simplifies everything as a built-in business partner can be a game changer. For millions of businesses, that tool is Shopify. Shopify is the commerce platform behind millions of businesses around the world and 10% of all e-commerce in the US. From household names like Jimm Shark, Rare Beauty, and Heinz, to brands just getting started. Shopify has hundreds of ready-to-use templates that can help you build a beautiful online store that matches your brand's style.

• 13:04Speaker 05

  And you can tackle all the important tasks in one place, from inventory to payments to analytics and more. No need to save multiple websites or try to figure out what platform is hosting the tool that you need. And if people haven't heard about your brand, you can get the word out like you have a marketing team behind you with easy-to-run email and social media campaigns to reach customers wherever they're scrolling or strolling. Start your business today with the industry's best business partner, Shopify, and start hearing. Sign up for your $1 per month trial today at Shopify.com/real. Go to Shopify.com/real. That's Shopify.com/real.

• 13:48Speaker 00

  Wanna be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So, rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 14:15Josh Horowitz?

  So, the, the reason you're here today is spreading the good word on this, this fun movie that we kind of started the, the trail on at Comic-Con, Matchbox the Movie. I'm curious, like, for you, is the criteria, like, for taking on a project, different? Are you a gut instinct kind of guy? Do you labor over opportunities and?

• 14:33Speaker 02

  So, uh, I think instincts are important, right? I, I don't think you should make a choice off of pure data or pure instinct. And especially in the creative space, pure data without instinct might make it kind of tough for me to sit here and talk passionately about the, the thing I'm, I'm trying to get your attention for.

• 14:54Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:55Speaker 02

  I think there needs to be a healthy combination of, I feel this is right, and man, this looks right.

• 15:02Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  What I look for in an opportunity is great producers, because things are gonna go wrong. And that's when a great producer is a great producer. And I tell anybody, if I get like an EP credit on something, that is an act of kindness from the people who actually do those, that work, but great producers are the start. Um, a passionate director. That doesn't need to be a director with a ton of movies under their belt. It could be someone new, it could be a first-timer, it could also be inexperienced, but they have to have a sense of passion.

• 15:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 15:36Speaker 02

  And, passion for me is like, talk about films the way I talk about wrestling. Okay, right on. Because I know when you're in it, you're gonna fight for your vision, and you, you already have an idea of what you wanna do. Sometimes going one to the next, to the next, to the next is a way to keep the lights on. It also is a way to keep us like, numb and complacent and like, what, why am I really still doing this?

• 16:02Josh Horowitz?

  Just checking the box as opposed to, yeah.

• 16:03Speaker 02

  Great producers, passionate director, and the reason you got great producers is sometimes you gotta reel in that passion from the director. But that's great, it's a great relationship to have. And a good story, a good script. I need to be able to read it. If I'm reading it and I have to put it down to be like, I'll finish it later. I, it could be the role of a lifetime. Let someone else have it.

• 16:24Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:24Speaker 02

  It has to be my favorite book on day one of shooting, it has to be my favorite book on prep and rehearsals, day 90 of shooting, the last day of press, the first day of press. It needs to have that feel, you know? And, and I think the feel of the read is where the instinct comes in. And the other two are really based on bodies of work, um, really logical, data-driven stuff of, well, passion is, is a, is a gut instinct as well, you know? So, it is a, it's a combination there.

• 16:54Josh Horowitz?

  So, what feeling did this give you? So, Sam Hargrave's a director.

• 16:57Speaker 02

  Matchbox is the only one recently.

• 16:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 16:59Speaker 02

  That I've had two of the three. I had no script for this one.

• 17:02Josh Horowitz?

  That's a, that's a leap.

• 17:03Speaker 02

  It is. Skydance promised me that like, hey, we're, we're partnering with Apple on this one, you did Barbie, you saw what, how Mattel is with their IP. They're not looking over your shoulder, they're not forcing you to do anything. We haven't given you the script yet because we don't, we don't feel it's in the right place. Trust me, it's gonna be there. And I rolled the dice, given their track record, and they delivered. They promised me, uh, so we had, we had Skydance and Sam Hargrave. I knew with Sam, there's no lack of passion.

• 17:36Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 17:37Speaker 02

  That dude lives by pushing the envelope.

• 17:39Josh Horowitz?

  This is the extraction director, he's done a ton of.

• 17:41Speaker 02

  That's how he goes through life, pushing the envelope on life.

• 17:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Uh, push the envelope as a dad, as a husband, as a director, as a stunt man, as like, he's awesome. He's a very aspirational human being. So, I just rolled the dice that the book would be great. And I gotta admit, I was skeptical. And in Hall H, you could like, feel it. That's why I was stalling, dude. Like, you could feel everybody being like, how are they gonna do this?

• 18:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, it's the same thing that happened on Barbie, right? Until you start to see it.

• 18:09Speaker 02

  How are they gonna do this?

• 18:10Josh Horowitz?

  What is this actually mean?

• 18:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. One and a half minutes or two minutes, and you're like.

• 18:16Speaker 02

  Thank goodness.

• 18:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  And I loved the story quickly became a favorite because the way they use Matchbox cars, the cars are just a conduit for nostalgia.

• 18:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  Which is what the cars are.

• 18:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:29Speaker 02

  They don't have to showcase my favorite, but they use it. We look at nostalgia in times of crisis. Nostalgia is simply looking at an easier time in life. These, these, the Matchbox gang has dropped into crisis.

• 18:43Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 18:44Speaker 02

  And they got to lean on what got them to the dance. Yo, there was a simpler time where we could solve any problem. And we did it when these were popular. It's like, oh, man, I used to play that eight bit Nintendo thing. Remember we used to sleep over and do whatever? Isn't that a simpler time in our life? Couldn't, if we would just solve problems like that, you know, like that's how they wrote it. And credit to Mattel as a partner. They didn't have you do this, you know, like.

• 19:08Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's not.

• 19:09Speaker 02

  It wasn't like put a drop of water on the cars and then they become big and you know, you know what I'm saying?

• 19:13Josh Horowitz?

  No, if anything, it's like, yeah, the Goonies kids grown up crossed with a little Fast and Furious thrown in there.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:19Josh Horowitz?

  You know?

• 19:20Speaker 02

  And, and a whimsical journey, but a realistic one for a CIA agent. What Sean goes through is a normal day at the office.

• 19:27Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  He just happens to bring his friends along. He, he deviates from the plan. And in typical operative fashion, everybody involved should be involved. Take everybody.

• 19:38Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:39Speaker 02

  No, they don't belong here. Well, too late. And then the Matchbox gang has to figure it out. And along the way, they, you know, Sean has been distant from his friends. They're stuck on a crazy road trip. So you get time to connect and you realize that like Sean, his fish out of water scenario is I work alone.

• 19:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 19:56Speaker 02

  Not anymore, pal. No, you don't. Their fish out of water scenario is what the fuck is going on?

• 20:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. As 99% of us would be.

• 20:04Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 20:04Josh Horowitz?

  So, so is, it, it, I mean, it is very charming to see kind of like, yeah, like the, the childhood friends still connected. And I'm curious like how good you've been in your own life because people you grew up with must marvel at like where you are, who you are.

• 20:19Speaker 02

  There's not a day that goes by that I don't marvel at what's going on. There's not a day, there's not a single day where I don't, I, I, I don't say like, what a life or how lucky I am.

• 20:30Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Am I in a simulation? Is this real?

• 20:32Speaker 02

  Regardless of, of what it is.

• 20:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:35Speaker 02

  I'm, I would be lucky enough to be in the simulation for this long. Like it's, it's just luck.

• 20:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 20:40Speaker 02

  And.

• 20:40Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it's more than just luck. It's, it's luck meeting opportunity. I mean.

• 20:44Speaker 02

  Luck and the, the luck is the opportunity and then add effort to the opportunity. And hopefully that can exponentially increase opportunities. But many of those opportunities are just luck.

• 20:55Josh Horowitz?

  But to my point of like childhood and, and, and people we keep in our lives, friends and family, are they, are they, I mean, I don't know. Do they give you some perspective to the ones that you grew up with that have kind of that distance from it?

• 21:09Speaker 02

  I still have a few of those friends from like grade school.

• 21:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:13Speaker 02

  I got a few friends from college. Uh, I got friends throughout wrestling or friends in, in, you know, uh, that I've met in the movie business.

• 21:19Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 21:22Speaker 02

  And I also have friends that I had in grade school that I no longer have. Friends I had in high school and college that I no longer have. Friends that I had when I was starting out wrestling, continuing wrestling that I no longer have. Um, friends in the movie business that I no longer have. And it's not like fuck this person. It's like just the chapter.

• 21:40Josh Horowitz?

  It's life. Yeah.

• 21:41Speaker 02

  That's life.

• 21:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:42Speaker 02

  That's life. It's tough to keep all those connections.

• 21:45Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 02

  I think the ones in grade school that I still have, we've been able to grow together. Not with any of my connections that I love and, and pour into in life. Are we stuck in 1985? We're, we can reflect on 1985.

• 22:03Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 22:04Speaker 02

  And we live in the now.

• 22:05Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:05Speaker 02

  And we look ahead to what's onward. And I think that separates those who stay in the book from those who end the chapter.

• 22:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 22:13Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying?

• 22:13Josh Horowitz?

  Those that are living in the past.

• 22:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 22:15Josh Horowitz?

  It, it's, is it, I would also imagine, again, you're in this very unusual, you're living this unusual life. We all are living unusual lives. You're on the extreme, I would say, like, is it hard to accept new people into your life and trust new people?

• 22:28Speaker 02

  No.

• 22:30Speaker 02

  No, I, I, I thrive and work hard to remain curious. I believe I'm an optimist when it comes to humanity. I believe there's not, there are some people who are acting for selfish reasons. There's certainly scammers out there. I just believe in humanity.

• 22:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:49Speaker 02

  And I believe you can have small acts of incremental trust to build a greater structure of trust.

• 22:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:56Speaker 02

  Just the way we have an interaction, the way you say hello, the way we start our conversation, the way you treat me, if you're asking something of me and from me, doesn't mean I won't reject you. I might give it to you, but I, that might be the end of our transaction and it might be purely transactional. How a relationship develops is small exercises in trust. That's it.

• 23:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 02

  And if I'm not willing to give that, if I'm like, no new friends, then I shut myself off from love and connection.

• 23:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 23:26Speaker 02

  I think the risk is worth the reward. And I've met some great folks in the process, unlikely friends, like it's, it's a wonderful thing. It's, it really stings when it goes wrong and it does go wrong and it sucks. But man, when it goes right, it's beautiful.

• 23:43Josh Horowitz?

  It's worth it. Um, okay. If you'll indulge me, let's, let's reminisce for a little bit. It struck me almost 20 years to the day, going back, The Marine came out.

• 23:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:54Josh Horowitz?

  Like truly almost 20 years.

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:56Josh Horowitz?

  Um, and we've talked a little bit about that period of your life and kind of the early, you know, films you did, but like, can you take me back to like what your attitude was, what your feeling was when that film premiered about your potential acting career?

• 24:10Speaker 02

  Uh, I was thoroughly engaged on the success of the business model. And my goal was to put more people in the arenas for WWE.

• 24:20Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:21Speaker 02

  Period. Like, hey, man, you could like have a whole nother career out of this. Why would I want another career?

• 24:29Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 24:29Speaker 02

  I was in Pittsburgh last night and it was dope. We're doing, we're doing Allentown tonight and it's sold out.

• 24:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right. And there's no better feeling in the world.

• 24:37Speaker 02

  Newark and it's gonna be awesome.

• 24:38Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:38Speaker 02

  And like every, every night, a new challenge, a new crowd to figure out, a new dance partner to work with, you know, a new piece of the world to see, a new adventure to have as a young 20 something, 30 something, like.

• 24:53Josh Horowitz?

  You cracked the code. This is it.

• 24:54Speaker 02

  Man, I don't want to be anywhere else.

• 24:56Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 02

  And, and in reflection, I could see that in the work. My heart was elsewhere, man.

• 25:03Josh Horowitz?

  You see it, if you, if you went back, we watched The Marines today, you would see something that's just not, not, a commitment wasn't there or?

• 25:10Speaker 02

  So when I watch it, I can tell, we can do things that, that amaze people and still not have our heart in it. So if somebody is entertained by The Marine, I can't, so many people, man, I love that movie.

• 25:24Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 25:25Speaker 02

  A lot of that is protection from somebody like David Egby, the DP, Robert Patrick, our senior, our senior on the, you know, on the, on the cast. A lot of it is them rising everybody up.

• 25:37Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:38Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? Um, and you can only hide in that for so long. With WWE, I know I got dance partners and a good dance partner can pull along a non-passionate dance partner and get them through a good match.

• 25:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 25:52Speaker 02

  The body of work will speak if you continue to have passion every time you step on the canvas and you can work with anybody and create a passionate story with anyone. My heart wasn't in those early offerings because I didn't put in the effort to get better.

• 26:09Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Okay. I start shooting on Monday, so I'm not going to show up there until like the last second and whatever. No, I just do, I'll figure it out. I'll figure it all out. Whereas in wrestling, it's like, who am I going to fight? I gotta study all my opponents. What am I going to say? This is going to be crazy. And then we can do this move. Like I didn't go at it with that gusto.

• 26:25Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:26Speaker 02

  And then after getting kind of run out of town in the movie business, um, I had to start over. I, I, fuck, I got, you want to talk about luck? I got to start over. This is my second run.

• 26:36Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  You know? More Happy, Say Confused coming up.

• 26:45Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.

• 27:09Speaker 06

  Low energy, unfocused, foggy? You might be dehydrated. Gatorade Zero Pudders have been scientifically designed to help improve hydration balance in the body with a clinically proven electrolyte blend and no artificial colors or flavors. Great tasting hydration, no matter where you're going. Shop now online or at retailers nationwide. Gatorade hydrates better than water. Is it in you? Symptoms noted are signs of mild to moderate dehydration. Consult a healthcare professional if symptoms persist.

• 27:41Josh Horowitz?

  So yeah, we've talked about how that there was that pivot point 2009.

• 27:44Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:45Josh Horowitz?

  You have this conversation.

• 27:46Speaker 02

  We're never doing movies again.

• 27:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 27:48Speaker 02

  Dan, Dan sitting right across the hall.

• 27:49Josh Horowitz?

  Your guy Dan. Okay. So he said, he has the honest conversation. He says, I don't think, I think we're done. I don't think we're doing movies again.

• 27:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 27:55Josh Horowitz?

  Was that a blow to your ego? I mean, you're riding high in wrestling. You're entertaining everybody night after night. Like, oh, fuck, I, I didn't succeed for once in my professional career.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  I have been riddled with failure in my life. It was just a thing of like, okay, cross that off the list.

• 28:12Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:13Speaker 02

  Why did we miss?

• 28:14Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:15Speaker 02

  You kind of didn't want to do it anyway.

• 28:17Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:18Speaker 02

  I felt bad that I couldn't make the business model a success.

• 28:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:23Speaker 02

  This thing, like someone had invested in me and I had cost them money rather than returning their investment. That was what I felt the worst about.

• 28:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  And to Dan's credit, when I'm like, man, we're never doing these again. He's like, no, we're not. And we're going to find another way. What do you enjoy doing? Like, all right, we'll read the news. We'll host some shows. We'll do competition reality.

• 28:44Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Let's start moving forward. And then Brian Robbins was like, hey, I'm filming this movie with this YouTube kid.

• 28:53Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 28:53Speaker 02

  Um, you want to parody yourself? And I'm like, yo, what?

• 28:59Speaker 02

  Cause by then it's like Fred was 2011, 12 ish. I've been playing the same character on TV now like that. So take that young, hungry kid who's got lightning in a bottle. It's the first time audiences see John Cena. And now it's like nine years into, to the being in the skin of the John Cena character. And somebody's like, hey, do you want to make fun of that character? Yes, I do. And I, I, I pride myself on trying to do as many fan conventions as I can. Whenever I'm off, I try to do fan conventions. I love them. And so many fans come up to me with like this shitty grin on their face going, loved you and Fred. I'm like, I loved those movies.

• 29:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:39Speaker 02

  I absolutely loved those movies because that was the first time that I approached a creative role that wasn't wrestling with the passion I approach wrestling.

• 29:50Josh Horowitz?

  And one could argue, I mean, I don't know, like what the comedy directors were drawing on when they cast you and things like Trainwreck. But like, I'm sure that was, that set you on the right path for people to kind of say, oh, this guy.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  There's.

• 30:02Josh Horowitz?

  Has other shapes.

• 30:03Speaker 02

  There's also tremendous advantages by being put around very capable people.

• 30:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Well, that's.

• 30:10Speaker 02

  And then combined very capable people who create a very safe, creative environment.

• 30:15Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  That's a chemistry experiment for a high level of success.

• 30:19Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. Again.

• 30:20Speaker 02

  So, you know, but then also approaching this, this, let's take Trainwreck, for example. A part that was written simply to be a one scene gag. Amy's true experience in life where she had way too physical sex with someone. And it was like, this is just too physical. I can't like, I, I'm out because it's, it's a gag.

• 30:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:42Speaker 02

  And super funny. We did stunt rehearsals and like, well, we used none of it. Because of the audition and their ability to pivot and be like, oh, man, but I came prepared, dude. I came prepared and confident and knew like, okay, I'm giving, I'm giving this small window of probably 90 seconds on screen. My everything. And what I'm not going to do is get out of that audition and say, I could have done more.

• 31:08Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 31:09Speaker 02

  And that's been a, that's been a process that's helped me.

• 31:12Josh Horowitz?

  Was there, do you remember the first time you met James Gunn? Like, was it for Peacemaker? Or did you go up for Guardians? Like, did you go up for Drax?

• 31:20Speaker 02

  Like, first time I met James Gunn was auditioning for Peacemaker in The Suicide Squad.

• 31:27Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Well, so you didn't, you never did the whole Guardians kind of audition process.

• 31:31Speaker 02

  No, no. And, uh, I, I knew I wasn't James's first choice. There's also, you, you mentioned ego. There's also no ego with me about that. I think like, a lot of the greatest opportunities I have gotten in life have been because someone else has said no.

• 31:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 31:47Speaker 02

  I have very rarely been someone's first choice. And that's okay. Like, it doesn't matter how you get it. It's what you do with it. Right? When I opened James's office and he had the entire movie comic book storyboarded from starting there to there. And he was like, yeah, this is what I see. And Peacemaker's this, we're going to do this. And that's the journey. And then we're going to end it like this. And what do you think? I'm like, what do I have to try? Do you want to hear me? No, no. Do you want to do it? Cause like, I want you to do it. I'm like, oh my God. So I get to do that? Yeah. We're going to start shooting in a couple of weeks.

• 32:26Speaker 02

  Okay. I'll see you in a few weeks. And like, I knew then, um, like, yo, I have a passionate director.

• 32:35Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 32:36Speaker 02

  You know, now I gotta get this book in my hand and make it my favorite, you know? Like that, that was seeing that and also reinforcing it in a, in a, I guess, in a, a way of mentorship that James doesn't know about of like, yo, you want to go in, be prepared.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  And James is super prepared.

• 32:57Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  I, I have a feeling that's because he writes the material, but like in the, in the material, everybody asked me like, oh, this thing in Peacemaker. Yes, it was in the script. This is where the scoring starts. This is the scoring. This is where the scoring ends. Like he is prepared.

• 33:11Josh Horowitz?

  He's living and breathing it. He, he lives for the shit.

• 33:13Speaker 02

  All the stuff that he creates has that unique touch to it, that unique feel to it, you know? Like it's, um, he bestows lessons upon me that he doesn't even know about, just how he moves through space.

• 33:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 33:25Speaker 02

  Give it everything, everything.

• 33:28Josh Horowitz?

  Did he give you back on The Suicide Squad, like any specific direction of how to approach the character or?

• 33:34Speaker 02

  So I asked him if I should read the comics in his office. He's like, nope, I'm going to create my own interpretation of the character. That I think that's sometimes why I like to choose broken toys. So he has the freedom to do whatever he wants.

• 33:47Speaker 02

  And I, I came up with what I thought Peacemaker would be, and he threw it away the first day of shooting on the beach. I was like, this guy is like a freedom fighter or like a devout patriot confused. Uh, I thought like Lee Army from Full Metal Jacket.

• 34:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  And like, couldn't be more angular. And then James, they built this huge beach in Atlanta. And like, they built a fucking beach in a back lot. And it, James is like 500 yards away with a megaphone shouting subs. I was like, oh no, stop, wait, just, I'm coming over.

• 34:22Josh Horowitz?

  Oh no.

• 34:23Speaker 02

  Came over and was like, hey, just, just be a douchey bro-y Captain America. And I'm like, okay, what a cool moment, right? I had done my work. I had prepared. But like, how does a military drill sergeant move through space? How does he move through space in scenes when he knows that no one's watching him? Like, this is who I think this person is. It's the choices. And then in one moment, real time, like we're doing a take next, I get a note to be like, hey, all that work you did, throw it away. This is what I want to see. What a pivotal decision. I got two choices. I can fight for.

• 34:59Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:00Speaker 02

  What I want, which is selfish, or I can take advice from the dude who sees the whole movie in his head and what he's really looking for out of me is douchey bro-y Captain America. Time to pivot. Threw all the work away and Peacemaker was born.

• 35:17Josh Horowitz?

  What a perfect direction though, too. It kind of tells you everything you need to know right there.

• 35:21Speaker 02

  That it's a vivid picture.

• 35:24Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Like everybody's like, oh yeah, I get that. I got it.

• 35:27Speaker 02

  And my version might be slightly different than his, but like, we're gonna, we might hit the bullseye, but we're not going to not, we're not, we're not missing the board.

• 35:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 35:34Speaker 02

  You know, and that's when we began to hone in on the thing and just that direction. So the long walk on the beach led up to like, me and Idris stopping on a hill where we finally were like, realized, poke it out, man, and all that stuff. Just that direction allowed so many alts to come out to mess with Idris, for Idris to mess back with me.

• 35:56Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 35:56Speaker 02

  James used none of them, but he was just letting me get altitude as Peacemaker. And he did that for the whole first run of the series too. In COVID, man, we filmed that thing during COVID. Nobody had human interaction. So dude, I came to set to every day to burn, to burn film. And James was so great about, we always made our days. We never wasted anybody's money. He was always great about giving us time to interact as humans with humans, to set the stage for a workplace comedy, which is what season one of Peacemaker was.

• 36:32Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, those two seasons are fantastic. And I mean, I think many would argue that it's like, it, it really showed us what you are capable of as an actor. Like, it's like an amazing performance. So congratulations on that. I mean, that character, the stuff you get to do, the stuff you get to say.

• 36:49Josh Horowitz?

  You know, to some, that would be a little scary. Like, I mean, when you read like, some of the lines he wrote for you. Like Aquaman fucks fish. Like, is there like, oh God, I'm going to see Jason Momoa one day. I'm going to have to explain that line to him. Or like, is there just so much trust in James that like?

• 37:03Speaker 02

  So I, so here's my thing. Like, if I'm, if I'm a character saying a line about another character.

• 37:16Speaker 02

  I'm not making fun of Jason.

• 37:18Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:19Speaker 02

  It's not John making fun of Jason. You know what I'm saying? And I also, I also think this is the skin I've built in the WWE.

• 37:26Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  I have been called everything. And people will come up to me and be like, yo, I, I boo you all the time, but I'm just booing John Cena, not like John Cena. Like, I'm like, what? I'm the, oh, okay, but, and I get it.

• 37:42Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:43Speaker 02

  So it's not personal. The lines are there to establish conflict. And quite frankly, if you get a rise out of the person, that's why we did it.

• 37:52Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:53Speaker 02

  And, and if you can't compartmentalize and you do take it personal, that, my apologies. But that's not what it's for.

• 38:00Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 38:01Speaker 02

  You know, if I sit here with an interview with you and talk shit about a person, that is me personally saying, I don't like the way this person is, and I'm handling my frustrations by talking to you about it and putting it out to the world.

• 38:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:13Speaker 02

  I'd like to settle that with the person face to face. And, and if I don't get that chance, then I'll sit in my own stuff.

• 38:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 38:22Speaker 02

  But I, I don't know, I, that's, is that, is that uncomfortable? All brave things need to be uncomfortable. You need to do something and be like, I hope they like it. Not like nailed it. You know what I'm saying? Like the nailed it comes after the audience sees it.

• 38:39Josh Horowitz?

  Right. That's easy to say.

• 38:40Speaker 02

  But that worry, that, that nervous excitement.

• 38:43Josh Horowitz?

  That means you're touching the third rail.

• 38:44Speaker 02

  Dude, it happens, it happens right before you go through the curtain in wrestling. Like right up until, and then when you go through, it's a different feeling. Ours is, the, the movie making business is different. You have that, the curtain is until tonight. When audiences see it, you get, but it has to, you have to have that nervousness, that discomfort. You know? Cause you should be making bold choices. That you should be putting yourself out there. And good coaching, either castmates and castmates and a director and editors and people putting a movie together should take those bold choices and make them make sense. You know, I have full trust in directors, which is why a passionate director is one of my 10 poles. I want to give them what they want.

• 39:29Speaker 02

  Even if it's not what I see, cause what I see is not what they see. They're making the movie. I'm not going to go with them into the edit. But if they're like, hey, I need you to be crazy. All right, I'll give you my interpretation of crazy. I'll also take like straight notes, be crazy and say this while you're being crazy. I'll do my best. It's a challenge for me as an actor. I'm not trained, like this is my training. I'm getting reps as we go.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  I don't know, I just, I, I like that. I like that, you know?

• 39:55Josh Horowitz?

  We couldn't possibly have seen the last of Peacemaker. I mean.

• 39:58Speaker 02

  That's, you need a different guy on, in the chair. We, I, I.

• 40:03Josh Horowitz?

  Have you, have you been costumed since we last saw you? Have you?

• 40:06Speaker 02

  And when, when I put that helmet on, I told James, I'm like, dude, I will put this helmet on as long as you need me to. Uh, I, I love working with him. I love the environment he creates. He makes me a better performer. So I love being around him. I also know that he went from like, he did Guardians, had to, had a steep hill to climb. He got invited to DC. He had one crew to mess around with, the Suicide Squad.

• 40:34Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 40:34Speaker 02

  And then COVID hit and he was really bored. So he wrote Peacemaker. Now this dude gets to play with a whole box of toys. And because you get the whole box of toys, you have to address the really valuable ones first. And I understand that. So here's a situation where I put my heart and soul into a character and an unknown character becomes a fan favorite. I also know that it's okay, I gotta step back.

• 41:01Josh Horowitz?

  They got Superman and Batman got their due, I guess, whatever.

• 41:03Speaker 02

  Superman, Batman, Wonder Woman, Doc, there's so many.

• 41:06Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 41:07Speaker 02

  Valuable IPs, we, you know, I'm not, I'm not in a leadership spot, but if I was, I'd be making those plays first. So that's okay.

• 41:16Josh Horowitz?

  But does it feel like from a creative standpoint for you? Is there unfinished business? I mean, we left.

• 41:21Speaker 02

  There should always, there always feels like unfinished business. I've retired from wrestling, but people are like, man, but you can come back and like, you know, you know what I'm saying?

• 41:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:30Speaker 02

  That's all that is to me is a message that like, dude, you did good work.

• 41:34Josh Horowitz?

  That's a good sign. Yeah.

• 41:36Speaker 02

  You did good work and I'd like to see you again. Nobody's saying good fucking written's Peacemaker. Yeah. There, there might be some folks, but I've heard more of, of the other sentiment than, than the sentiment I just expressed. I just, um, rather than, oh man, but what if we, I have no control over the what if we?

• 41:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 41:54Speaker 02

  I did good work. Hopefully it might get me a good opportunity elsewhere. We'd like you to do Matchbox. Okay, let's go. You know what I mean?

• 42:01Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, totally. Have you been away from wrestling long enough to miss it yet?

• 42:05Speaker 02

  And I, I missed it while I was in it. Like it, man, it, it, it's, it's music I love to listen to, man. Like it's, I miss it now, I missed it while I was in it. I miss it while I was doing it. I'll miss it forever. I wish I could do it forever. There's, there's, I would be lying and I, I want to, honesty. You can explain things differently, but honesty is also, that's a core value of mine. I, I love it. There's nothing like it and I wish I could do it forever.

• 42:39Josh Horowitz?

  Was it, when you made the ultimate final decision to, to say goodbye, was it a combination? Like what was, was a doctor saying like, your body's going to give out at some point? Was it, you just feeling it?

• 42:50Speaker 02

  No, I'm, I'm 49.

• 42:52Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  I'm slower. My vertical jump was down. My overall strength was down, which means my body essentially, time is undefeated. My body is getting weaker. And it takes longer to perform, longer to warm up to perform. It takes longer to recover between performances. All of these things are data that's hitting me in the face. And those times, those numbers, the strength numbers are never going back up. The times are never going to get smaller. It's going to take longer and longer. Not to say that I still don't have good performances left. I could probably get in there and still do some stuff.

• 43:29Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:31Speaker 02

  But when is the math gonna not work? And at that point, gosh, people are paying a lot for tickets. And I'm, I'm robbing them of that investment. So I just looked at the data. I looked at the schedule. A lot of stuff is going on and I'm, I'm passionate about what I'm doing. And I don't want to take away from people on the production side who invested all this money in me. I don't want to take away from that. Let's close this chapter while we still can do great work. And hopefully tell a year long riveting story. And, and it was. The great thing about the story is it pissed people off. People didn't like parts, people did like parts. Conversation erupted. But it wasn't apathetic.

• 44:16Speaker 02

  We had no empty seats.

• 44:18Josh Horowitz?

  As far as you're concerned, you were more than happy with how it all played out. You, no regrets.

• 44:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, the, the whole idea of the retirement tour wasn't like a egotistical thing.

• 44:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 44:29Speaker 02

  It was a like, man, this business invested so much in me. How can we take the IP? And really do a good thing for the business? And not just from like, okay, we got this new talent and we want to put John Cena with a new talent. No. How can we make 2025? A year. A year where you can begin to gain relevance and take that and leverage it into whatever content agreements you have, or like, how can we get to a new territory internationally by advertising? Yo, we'll give you one of John's last performances. You know what I'm saying?

• 45:04Josh Horowitz?

  Sure. Use it as a jet fuel for.

• 45:06Speaker 02

  Yes, and the, you know, we take things differently. There was, there were perspectives, perspectives out there of like, oh man, this is a ego driven thing. It is a business driven thing.

• 45:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:18Speaker 02

  The, I think the selfish thing is just to go away. Because every, you're, you didn't, you didn't alone make yourself this huge thing. Not only did you have a bunch of dance partners, but you had somebody pushing money into the furnace to create the IP. And it was just a way for me to be like, well, if I'm gonna, if I'm gonna go, I think this might be a good way to do it. And I pitched the WWE and I was like, hey, listen, either it's this or like, I just post on X that I'm retired.

• 45:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 45:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, that post is gonna get a ton of traction. But X is gonna get paid for that. Like, let's, let's do something that's fulfilling for the audience, and let's do something that keeps the company's lights on. And that's where the idea of the farewell tour was born.

• 46:05Josh Horowitz?

  Can I, can I show you what's instantly become one of many iconic moments in your career at the end? Can we show this to John? This is

• 46:12Speaker 02

  What do we got?

• 46:12Josh Horowitz?

  The long awaited heel turn.

• 46:15Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, yeah, look at that.

• 46:17Josh Horowitz?

  Can you put me in your head a little bit of like, do you remember the before, during, and after of that moment?

• 46:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this came out of nowhere. And again, it was like most, I was, I was never a performer to be like, I want to work with this guy, and I want to do this, this, this, this. This was a phone call I get seven to 10 days before the thing about like, hey, we have this idea, what we want to do in February is turn heel. I said, okay, no problem. Wait, what? Are you sure? Yeah, that's what we're doing. Yeah, but you've been a good guy so long, and people view you as a good guy. Hey, I've been down this road before. The last time we addressed

• 47:03Speaker 02

  this was 2012 with Dwayne Johnson, or 2011. And Vince came to me, it's like, I think I want to turn your heel. I said, I'll do whatever you want. Just know that I'm here every day. Dwayne is coming in and out. So if we go bad, I'm going bad. A good bad guy makes the good guy great.

• 47:23Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 47:24Speaker 02

  I can't be bad and then go shake hands and meet folks and do all that stuff. I just want you to know, like, that's, what you're saying is you want me to be bad. I'm all in. I went, got new gear made, I recorded a new song, like, I did all this stuff on my own. And then a week later, it's like, no, we're scrapping that. Don't worry about it. This was, hey, we want to do this. I'm in. Yeah, sure. What do you mean? You're, you're gonna be bad. People look at you as a good guy. Did you do your due diligence on this? Yes. I pitched you guys this last year. You know that I'm gonna be bad for the last, like, a portion of the last year. You're fine with that. That's how you want

• 48:07Speaker 02

  your investment spent. Yes, we think it'll be awesome. Then I'm all in. Yeah, but what about like, how people feel about? It's a character. It's a character. It's not me. And yes, the character is very closely correlated to John Cena and a lot of like, the tent pole things that WWE John Cena stands for are the same things that I believe in. And I have so much more to give as a human being. I, I would never in real life, challenge anyone to a fight. I'm a fucking diplomat. I, I believe in conversation, and I believe that we can come to a resolve, and that would be a last ditch effort. That's a glaring difference

• 48:49Speaker 02

  between the guy that runs down the ramp saying, if you want some, come get some. Anybody that comes out, he's getting their ass kicked. That is not my approach for excitement in real life.

• 49:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 49:00Speaker 02

  You know, so there's a glaring difference between the character and the human. And there are many more. And I think that's a gray area with creative space, especially with wrestlers, because our fans are so passionate, and they invite us into their homes every week. And I've been invited into their homes every week for two decades. And it's like, this is the guy I know. And yes, this is the guy you know. And if we got to know each other more, you would know more about me. And I guess it's the feeling of like, man, if people hate me because I'm doing it, and like, the character is ruined, well, at least we tried something bold. We tried, we went down swinging. It wasn't just an apathetic like, eh, you know, this would be so much worse.

• 49:44Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 49:45Speaker 02

  Let's, let's swing boldly. The last choice I ever made, giving up. A bold swing. The, the, my now involvement with the WWE, the John Cena classic, a bold swing. I made it. I made it through all the match criticisms and all the critiques and all the, I want to get back in there. And I want them to tell me it sucks. And I want them to tell me why. And, and, and I, if you don't do it boldly, it's not worth it.

• 50:13Josh Horowitz?

  Big swings.

• 50:13Speaker 02

  So as long as I, I just asked everybody, like, this is, these are the parameters. This is what you're asking me. You're okay. We're okay. Let's do it. And the one thing I said about the creation of the moment, we were all in Cody's traveling bus, talking about like, how we wanted it to go, and making sure creatively, everybody was okay. So the one thing I think is important is shoot my face. Because I'm, I'm a guy who preaches friendship, and Cody is a friend of mine, we have history. I think this is a believable thing. Just shoot the turn of emotions in my face.

• 50:51Josh Horowitz?

  Lingering conflict, the turn, the, yeah.

• 50:53Speaker 02

  And, and when you showed me that clip, you cut it at the kick in the nuts. You showed me the face. So like, just without even me telling that story, what you showed me before validates like, hey, man, I think this is an important piece.

• 51:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 51:09Speaker 02

  You know? And then the afterwards, got a little convoluted, because some players dropped out of the race, we had to redefine our journey, and that's the beauty of wrestling. Like, it's a, it's like a soap opera story that goes on. And I tried to ruin wrestling, which seemed like a bad idea, or seemed like a great idea, but it kind of was a bad for business. That's a, that's an idea that it's like, I got this great idea that's gonna be awful and awesome. And then the, the people come up, and they're like, ah, creatively, we need to go a different direction, because this might be bad for business. Remember when we invested in that farewell tour thing? This might be the wrong way we want to do it. Okay, fine, I'll pivot. I'll throw that idea away. I'll come up with something new. Let's have my opponents now try to bring the good out of me. I know there's still

• 51:54Speaker 02

  good left in him. And that, and to Randy Orton, and all my famous rivalries to try to pull me back to the right side, because it's like, I made sure to put the ticking clock on the board of like, we only got this many dates left. And the first time I did it was in Vegas. So bands could realize, like, my time's slipping away. It's very intentional. Black screen numbers, done. And then I would, like, a few appearances later, I'd wait, and I'd bring the clock up again, peel off more numbers. It's the first time in WWE that the sands are like, we only got this guy for 10 more? Why are you wasting it? Why, what are we doing? Like, it, that sort of urgency created that sense of like, this is when it ends.

• 52:33Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 52:34Speaker 02

  Come on, John, what are you doing? Don't end like this. Which is, that started to get the energy and the chemistry we needed. Because I truly think that nobody believed I was gonna do it. You know, I'm retiring, January 6th for Netflix on the debut, I'm retiring. Yeah, whatever.

• 52:53Josh Horowitz?

  No, this is for real. The stakes are real.

• 52:55Speaker 02

  It really got real. You know what I'm saying? Like, yeah, I think people, I think everybody kind of discovered it in their own way and their own time. And in between, my job is to swing boldly and make it entertaining. I had some misses, I had some hits. Lack of effort was not one. You know, and, and, and I'm very proud of that last year. And it might have set the stage for, for others to have ideas. They may be able to build off an idea like that when other superstars want to end their career. Who knows?

• 53:27Josh Horowitz?

  I gotta let you go soon. So let me just ask you quickly, just looking ahead, you feeling optimistic about another Fast movie? I've been asking all your co-stars, like-

• 53:34Speaker 02

  So beyond my control.

• 53:36Josh Horowitz?

  Do you talk to Vin regularly? Do you check in?

• 53:38Speaker 02

  Literally, my big brother. I talk to him often. And I don't talk to him about business. And I, gosh, I talk, I talk to Vince often. He's like, God, he's one of my closest friends. We never talk about business. There's so much more to talk about with Vin.

• 54:00Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  You want to talk about like, put forth work into a character, and then get to know the person, and they are way more than the character. Vin is, is that. Like-

• 54:13Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, he's one of the most fascinating human beings on the planet. Believe me, I, I agree.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  We, we talk often, and I never talk business.

• 54:19Josh Horowitz?

  All right.

• 54:20Speaker 02

  And I would like to think there'd be another Fast movie. And also, I know that I had a pretty bad wreck in the last one. I also, everybody's like, no, but it's fast. And I also know that maybe that was the way for my character to end their story. And maybe it would help make the next one, if there is one, more meaningful if I didn't show up.

• 54:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 54:39Speaker 02

  So it's not like I'm sitting here, I'm like, yeah, there should be a Fast, they should bring my guy back. Dude, I got to be a Toretto. So instead of look onward about like, if this doesn't happen, this will be a disappointment, I look in the rearview and see the Toretto cross. Dope.

• 54:56Speaker 02

  Like, awesome.

• 54:58Josh Horowitz?

  Have you and Dwayne ever talked about like a buddy anything film?

• 55:03Speaker 02

  Like, again, like, talking business is tough. Dwayne and I have talked about creative business that we have together.

• 55:10Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he was gonna produce something I think you were gonna do with Jansen for a while.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Yes, and that has been many projects in development. It's tough to get something to the finish line. We talk about life, man.

• 55:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 55:23Speaker 02

  Like, when I see him, it is literally a genuine, it's not the, how you doing? It's like, let's take a second. And like, hey, man, this time you you said hi to my wife. I really need you to know that meant a lot. And then we'll have a conversation about that. And he's very giving with his time and very sincere and very present. And I don't want to bug him down with like, and yo, man, I got this pitch.

• 55:46Josh Horowitz?

  So we're on the run.

• 55:47Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying?

• 55:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, totally.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Like.

• 55:49Josh Horowitz?

  And there's so few people, honestly, that have the lives experience that you've had that you can relate to in a real way. Like, he's lived the life that you've you're living, and that's.

• 55:58Speaker 02

  He's he's lived the life that he's living.

• 56:00Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 56:01Speaker 02

  And for we have, we have common threads, but even in those common threads, it's like the same color orange, but if you put the thread under a microscope, it's very different.

• 56:11Josh Horowitz?

  Sure.

• 56:12Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying?

• 56:12Josh Horowitz?

  Yep.

• 56:13Speaker 02

  There are, there's a lot of commonalities we can have in conversation. And in that conversation, my view of we're wrestlers and movie stars, so this is an outcome. He'd be like, no, no, no, it's this is an outcome. You know what I'm saying?

• 56:23Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 56:24Speaker 02

  And I don't know, I just, we, my perspective is that individual doesn't seem like he gets a lot of time to himself. And when he's giving enough of his time to be present with me, the last thing I want to do is hand him a pitch deck.

• 56:42Josh Horowitz?

  That's fair. No, that's fair.

• 56:44Speaker 02

  And if folks that make movies, there's a lot of folks out there that are in charge of like orchestrating those things. If they see Dwayne's body of work and my body of work and they're like, they'd be great together. If that opportunity comes, I'm all in. Like, to say I wouldn't want to share the screen with Dwayne Johnson is a bold-faced lie. I learned from the way I operated our first run in in the WWE that to beat my chest and say like, to to goad him into that opportunity, that was so wrong of me. So there's no way I'm gonna, I would love to do it, but I'm not gonna advocate for it when it's beyond my control. And I don't want to force his hand into a decision he's gonna make.

• 57:27Josh Horowitz?

  No, yeah.

• 57:28Speaker 02

  You know what I'm saying? I did that once, it was such a such a learning experience.

• 57:31Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, no, we've talked about that one before.

• 57:33Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 57:34Josh Horowitz?

  Are you still a retired gamer? Have you come back to gaming or?

• 57:36Speaker 02

  I am, I am retired.

• 57:37Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. GTA 6 is not gonna be on your list this year.

• 57:40Speaker 02

  Piano, man.

• 57:42Josh Horowitz?

  Piano and reading.

• 57:43Speaker 02

  It's, yeah.

• 57:44Josh Horowitz?

  You're a cultivated man.

• 57:45Speaker 02

  I'm trying, no, I'm making up for lost time. I never played an instrument as a kid and boy, did I never read.

• 57:50Josh Horowitz?

  How's the piano going?

• 57:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, I'm better than I was yesterday.

• 57:52Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, that's all we can ask for.

• 57:54Speaker 02

  It's not enough for me to start playing Grand Theft Auto. So I'm still, I'm still messing.

• 57:58Josh Horowitz?

  Better chance of you being at Carnegie Hall playing piano than playing Grand Theft Auto is what you're saying.

• 58:02Speaker 02

  And to your, from your, from your words, we'll see, we'll see. But and yes, statistically, yes, there is a better chance.

• 58:09Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, all right. Um, look, I really do always appreciate, not only the time, but you are just such a straight shooter. You're so honest and thoughtful. Um, I appreciate you. I wish you the best of luck on this one. Matchbox the movie, Apple TV, check it out.

• 58:23Speaker 02

  So much. And I know, uh, you can't please everybody, and I know that. What I hope this does is get your audience, uh, thinking and conversing out there of either I agree with that or I don't agree with that and here's why. I think those moments are special, when you can see two people interacting in a conversation and have something to say about it afterwards. So I hope that's something to say is I'm gonna see Matchbox the movie. Apple TV, 10-9.

• 58:50Josh Horowitz?

  That's the warning, and I'm gonna go shop for a really cool three-piece suit because you always show me up, man.

• 58:54Speaker 02

  Tell him the waistcoat, baby. Just get a couch at a secondhand store and make a suit out of it.

• 59:00Josh Horowitz?

  I'll work on that for next time. Thanks, buddy.

• 59:02Speaker 02

  Appreciate it. Thank you.

• 59:05Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate, and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley, and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

• 59:23Speaker 00

  Want to be the one who's always in the know about the game, the scores, the plays? Here's a tip, the Apple Sports app. Just pick your favorite teams and get automatic live updates without even knowing their schedules. And when your team scores, it shows up right on your iPhone lock screen, making it easy to check in anytime. So rule the group chat and download Apple Sports for free on the App Store or find it on your new iPhone.