452 The 5 Second Rule to Change Your Life with Mel Robbins

"Greatness is hearing your truth and speaking it, no matter how your voice shakes." - Mel Robbins If you enjoyed this episode, check out show notes, video, and more at http://lewishowes.com/452 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Lewis Howes?

  This is episode number 452 with Mel Robbins.

• 0:07Lewis Howes?

  Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week, we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.

• 0:33Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness, guys. I am so excited about our guest today. Why? Because she is incredible. That's right. And she's here in studio on the School of Greatness. And it wasn't until a few weeks ago, when I actually found out about this person. And man, do I wish I would have found out about her about 10 years ago, because she blew my mind. What an incredible human being. And for those that don't know who Mel Robbins is, you're in for a treat. She is a CNN analyst, the most booked female speaker in the entire world, with a seven-figure speaking business, a bestselling author, and contributing editor for Success Magazine.

• 1:15Lewis Howes?

  And she's been happily married for 20 years. She's got three kids. And she's got a new book out called The Five Second Rule. And wow, we are going to get into some powerful information that is going to transform your business and your life today. So get ready. And before I get into what we're covering exactly, I want to share with you the review of the week that made me laugh and smile so big. This is from Victoria011. She said, "Easily, one of my favorite podcasts. Haven't missed an episode, and I find myself going back to several of them time and time again. I recommend Lewis to anyone. Literally, he

• 1:56Lewis Howes?

  brings a little bit of everything to his show. It's impossible not to find relatable content on the School of Greatness." Now, if you're on the edge, here's some of my favorite interviews. Start out with one of these fine humans, and you simply can't go wrong. Marie Forleo, Adam Braun, Neil Strauss, Matthew Hussey, Chris Lee, James Altucher, John Levy, Chase Jarvis, Tony Robbins, Sofia Amoroso, Glennon Doyle-Belted, Jason Silva, Preston Smiles, Ramit Sethi, Jack Canfield, Chris Gilibow, Jesse

• 2:27Lewis Howes?

  Larry King, Danielle Port, Steve Weatherford, Gary Vee, Catherine Woodward Thomas, Gabby Bernstein, Sarah Blakely. I could keep going, but watch a couple of these and you'll be headed down the rabbit hole on your own. So Victoria, thank you for the review for the five stars. You are our review of the week from iTunes. And if you guys have not left a review yet about what this podcast means to you and how it's benefited you in any way, or anything you want to share about it, then please go to iTunes.com slash greatness. Or if you're on the iTunes app right now, just go ahead and open it up and leave a review. I love to hear from you and see if you make the review of the week in the future.

• 3:10Lewis Howes?

  All right, guys, here's what we're covering today. Mel Robbins, the game changer, the heart opener. She is incredible. I can't wait to hang out with her more. I wish she lived in LA so I could just go over to her place and we can grab a smoothie and hang out because I seriously couldn't get enough of this woman. Here's what we cover, why it's so important to control your thoughts versus controlling your feelings. Also, the knowledge action gap that keep so many people from achieving their goals. We break down the five second rule and we talk about how to use this rule in business negotiations.

• 3:50Lewis Howes?

  Also, what successful people do in their minds to keep moving ahead, no matter how crummy they feel. Also, do you want to increase your confidence? She breaks down where confidence actually comes from and how you can get more of it. Ladies and gentlemen, you are in for a treat. So let me introduce to you the one, the only Mel Robbins.

• 4:20Lewis Howes?

  Welcome everyone to the School of Greaters Podcast. We have a special guest, Mel Robbins. Good to see you. Thank you so much for being here.

• 4:27Mel Robbins?

  Oh, can I hold a camera?

• 4:28Lewis Howes?

  Very excited.

• 4:29Mel Robbins?

  Oh my god. This is the first time I've had a Bill Belichick headset on. I feel like I'm gonna be calling plays, people. Here we go.

• 4:36Lewis Howes?

  You are. You know, you gotta stand out in the podcast world. And not everyone does this.

• 4:40Mel Robbins?

  No.

• 4:41Lewis Howes?

  It's unique, you know?

• 4:41Mel Robbins?

  No, I thought this was because of your arena football background.

• 4:44Lewis Howes?

  Right, I know. Everyone says that. But for me, I like it because I used to have a mic that would sit on the table, and you have to like lean forward the whole time.

• 4:51Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 4:52Lewis Howes?

  You can't relax at all. And you can't like move your head at all. So this, like the mic is clear, it's crisp, and you can do anything.

• 4:58Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 4:58Lewis Howes?

  So I don't care if it's a little big or bulky. I think it's good.

• 5:01Mel Robbins?

  Fantastic. No, I love it. When I first started watching your show, because I do watch your show, I was like, oh, someday, I'm gonna meet Louis.

• 5:08Lewis Howes?

  And wear the headset.

• 5:09Mel Robbins?

  And I'm gonna get to wear the headset, and I'm gonna feel like a coach. This is incredible. But I do feel like I gotta be like this. You know how they all go like this, so you can't read their lips?

• 5:17Lewis Howes?

  Yes, exactly. With the little charts, yes. You've got a new book out called The Five Second Rule.

• 5:22Mel Robbins?

  How do you drink coffee with this on your mouth? Do you have to like go through the side?

• 5:26Lewis Howes?

  I put it up like this. I put it up like this.

• 5:28Mel Robbins?

  Oh, it moves. Okay. Like a pilot.

• 5:31Lewis Howes?

  Put it up.

• 5:32Mel Robbins?

  Okay, I'm ready now.

• 5:33Lewis Howes?

  Mel's got a book called The Five Second Rule, and it's out right now. It's about how to transform your life, work, and confidence with everyday courage. And you used to be a... Are you still a CNN analyst? Or you used to be?

• 5:46Mel Robbins?

  I am, yeah. But I don't cover politics, so it has not been a busy year for me.

• 5:52Lewis Howes?

  Got it.

• 5:52Mel Robbins?

  I do more ethics and relationships and business. And so when there's breaking news that impacts human behavior or business, that's when they'll call me.

• 6:01Lewis Howes?

  Got it, okay.

• 6:02Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 6:02Lewis Howes?

  Now, were you always an on-air personality talent analyst? Or what were you doing for that?

• 6:07Mel Robbins?

  Now, I have had a crazy career.

• 6:08Lewis Howes?

  Tell me about it.

• 6:09Mel Robbins?

  Crazy, okay. So I grew up in Western Michigan. I went east to college and law school. And the first job I got out of school was as a public defender in Manhattan.

• 6:17Lewis Howes?

  Okay.

• 6:18Mel Robbins?

  I did violent felony criminal defense work for the city of New York for four years, and I would probably still be doing it, except for the fact that my husband got into business school in Boston. And so we moved up to Boston and I was not actually licensed to practice in Massachusetts. So I went to work for a large law firm and almost immediately wanted to kill myself.

• 6:40Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 6:40Mel Robbins?

  Not like truly and you know, we'll talk about the implications of the five second rule and how beneficial it is not only for productivity and for confidence, but also for mental health stuff, but hated it. And luckily this was 99 in Boston when the startup scene was exploding.

• 6:59Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 6:59Mel Robbins?

  And you could sneeze and get a job. And I networked like crazy and ended up getting a job in a really cool technology company and spent four years doing tech.

• 7:10Lewis Howes?

  Public defender to tech company.

• 7:12Mel Robbins?

  Yes. And well, you know, one of the things about getting a law degree and I'm not actually telling you to because I think there's, there's, unless you really want to practice law, it's a motherload of debt. And there is a absolute glutton of attorneys out there and the job market is really difficult.

• 7:30Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:30Mel Robbins?

  And the other thing they don't tell you about law school right now is that you may be an incredible attorney, but unless you know how to do business development, your career is not going to do what you want it to do.

• 7:41Lewis Howes?

  So you need to bring in business, right?

• 7:42Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 7:42Lewis Howes?

  You need to network. You need to build, you can't just sit there and expect it to come to you, right?

• 7:45Mel Robbins?

  That was the old model.

• 7:46Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 7:47Mel Robbins?

  That was the old model.

• 7:48Lewis Howes?

  Now you gotta go and get clients.

• 7:48Mel Robbins?

  Correct. Correct.

• 7:50Lewis Howes?

  Cultivate them, get them on retainers.

• 7:51Mel Robbins?

  Even if you work for a large firm.

• 7:52Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Mel Robbins?

  Because you're not, if you're on the partner track, you're actually not of value unless you're generating income. And, and so they don't tell you that in law school.

• 8:00Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 8:00Mel Robbins?

  But so anyway, the law degree though, because it's a degree about learning how to think and learning about how to take mountains of complex information and distill it down into one key takeaway and to the most important elements of something, that's what law school trains you to do. And so what's fascinating is that when you look at my career, whether it was being in high tech, or it was then going on to do a bunch of executive coaching, launching and selling companies, and then having a syndicated radio show, being on CNN, and what I do now as an author, as a speaker, as you know, somebody like you that's, that is out helping people figure out how to launch businesses and change your

• 8:42Mel Robbins?

  life. It's about taking all of the incredible information that's out in the world and distilling it down into the key takeaways that makes supers, that makes sense and that are also actionable. And so interestingly,

• 8:57Mel Robbins?

  When I look back on my career, even though I've made all these career changes, there are still fundamental skills that I developed early on that are the reason why I've become very successful in these other arenas. And you know, that's one other thing to remember is that the cool thing about the world today, and you talk about this too, is that all the information that you need is right at your fingertips. How all you need to do is watch the show and you will get the secrets to creating the life that you want and being able to make that pivot so that you can let your passion direct you into a business that really helps you create the life that you want.

• 9:39Mel Robbins?

  So the information is there, the guidance is there. But the thing that's so difficult for most of us is how when you're alone and you turn off this show, do you push through the excuses, the habits, the fears, and the actual physical constraints that you have in your life right now so that you can make the pivot? And so I often say that I am not a what speaker or a why speaker, I'm a how. And that there's already incredible information about what you can do and why you should do it. And I find that the place that I get stuck is, okay, well, that's great, and I do a lot of thinking, but how do I get out of here and make it happen?

• 10:21Lewis Howes?

  Our thoughts are our biggest killers of our dreams.

• 10:24Mel Robbins?

  Totally.

• 10:25Lewis Howes?

  They're the biggest killers or our biggest cheerleaders. And if we don't know how to really, I guess, I don't know, not manipulate them, but to really hone in on them, then we can have a messed up life. And I've gone through many years of self-destruction growing up just because I didn't know how to manage the thoughts. I didn't know how to, I was never educated on it really, on how to, not control it, but I don't know, what is it?

• 10:49Mel Robbins?

  What is it?

• 10:50Lewis Howes?

  What is it? Yeah, not control it, but what is the word I'm looking for?

• 10:52Mel Robbins?

  Well, see, I talk about it this way. So, I like to simplify things because it makes it easier for me. I'm almost 50 for crying out loud and there's only so much that you can remember when you get to be, you know, when he's 33, that's a whole different ballgame. But I think about your brain as being in two modes. Two modes to your brain that you need to know about. There's autopilot. We've all experienced that. You know, you drive to work and get there and you're like, "Oh, who drove the car? Oh, my God." Like, I don't even remember driving the car here. Well, you did, Louis. You drove the car. But the thing is, is that you were in the mode of your brain that's called autopilot. Well, what is autopilot? Autopilot is the interior part of your brain. You'll hear neuroscientists and psychologists talk about the basal ganglia. Very important thing to understand is that there's a part of your brain that its entire

• 11:37Mel Robbins?

  job is basically to execute your habits. Habits, big fancy word, means something very simple. Behaviors that you repeat without even thinking about it. When you pull your pants on in the morning, I guarantee you, you either put your left or your right leg in first. And you have to stop and think about which one it is, don't you? But not when you're putting your pants on.

• 11:57Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 11:58Mel Robbins?

  Because that behavior is what researchers call a habit loop. It gets enclosed, it gets encoded as a closed-loop system right here. Now, the problem for most of us is that half of the day, we're on autopilot. And that's not me making a guess. That's what researchers that study habits and study psychology say. That half of your day, you're basically kind of checked out and you're on autopilot. And when you're checked out and you're on autopilot, any behavior pattern that you repeat can take over. And guess what are behavior patterns that we repeat? Thinking patterns. So, self-doubt, worry, procrastination, overthinking, analysis paralysis, fear.

• 12:43Mel Robbins?

  Those are all thinking patterns that are habits. One of the most important things that I want people to understand is that you're actually not a worrier. You have a habit of worrying. Big difference. You're not a procrastinator. You have a habit of procrastinating. Big difference. And when you understand that any behavior pattern, whether it is a thinking pattern, like you doubt yourself all the time... Or you get trapped upstairs noodling everything and you can never get started. Or whether it's a behavior pattern like you drink too much. Or you snap at your kids. Or you micromanage your team. Every one of those behavior patterns and thinking patterns can actually be interrupted

• 13:27Mel Robbins?

  and replaced using science. Now, let's talk about the second part of the brain. Drive. That's this puppy right here. This is what you want. This is your prefrontal cortex. Drive is the mode where you're in charge of your thoughts. Okay? It's where you are fully awake. You are present. And you are driving your thoughts and actions. When you're doing that, your prefrontal cortex is active. The prefrontal cortex is the part of the brain that you need in order to learn new behavior, in order to do something difficult, in order to do something uncertain, in order to do strategic thinking. So I'm going to give you an example. So I'm a righty. If I were to try to write with my left hand, like Louis is going to torture me and tie

• 14:10Mel Robbins?

  my hand behind my back and make me like do this, I could do it. It would look like I was writing with my foot. And if Louis came up to me and said, "Hey Mel, you want some bulletproof coffee?" I'd be like, "Louis, I'm trying to concentrate. I can't do this." My prefrontal cortex would be El Fuego. Because it is firing on all cylinders to communicate to my hand new behavior. So the thing that's cool about that is that you can use a simple trick. The moment you feel yourself hesitate, the moment you've got one of those moments where you know that you need to... This is that moment that Louis talks to you about where you've got to step outside of your comfort zone and you've got to lean into your passion and you've got to really take some risks and you've got to feel the fear and you've got to do it anyway.

• 14:55Mel Robbins?

  That's the moment where you just woke up. And now you've got a decision to make. Are you going to drift back into the habits? Or are you going to awaken your prefrontal cortex and drive forward and focus and do something new? And so the work that I've been doing and speaking about is all about the five-second rule, which is a trick that I invented by mistake. That helps you manually switch, no joke, your brain. It turns off and interrupts the part of the brain that is where all your habits and your behavior patterns are encoded. And it awakens your prefrontal cortex, which in five seconds flat allows your brain to help you change. And so, anyway.

• 15:36Lewis Howes?

  I love it.

• 15:37Mel Robbins?

  I was rambling on and on, because you went on this thing about how your patterns can be destructive and nobody teaches us. And that's absolutely right. And what I want everybody to get out of this conversation between us is that you cannot control how you feel. You cannot control what triggers you. And the fact that you may rise up with anger, you may rise up with self doubt, you may have anxiety, fill your body. But you can always control what you think and how you behave. And we spend way too much time trying to focus on manipulating how we feel about things and not enough time practicing the skills of controlling your behavior and your thoughts.

• 16:16Lewis Howes?

  Hmm, because if you can control your behavior and your thoughts, then the way you feel will be different.

• 16:21Mel Robbins?

  Hundred percent. And a lot of us are sitting around waiting to feel ready, waiting to feel courageous, waiting to feel confident, waiting for the right time. And that's not ever coming, ever, ever. You're not going to change your life up here. You only change it through action. And, and so to me, you know, I did this, this, you know, interview with you, with your friend Tom, and we talked about how motivation is garbage and this, somebody memed it and went crazy. And so, the point that I was trying to make is this, is that, yeah, motivation is great if you feel like, if you feel motivated, but it's garbage and it's, it's, it's, it's a losing bet to wait to feel ready.

• 17:01Lewis Howes?

  Hmm.

• 17:02Mel Robbins?

  Because it's, your body's not designed that way and neither is your brain. And so, I want everybody to understand that first of all, you can't control the things that trigger you and the fact that you're going to feel afraid and you're going to feel doubt and you're going to feel uncertain. But you can always interrupt that feeling and take control in the moment and actually shift what you're thinking and shift how you behave.

• 17:23Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. And you know, the bigger the dream, the more fear you're going to have.

• 17:27Mel Robbins?

  Totally.

• 17:28Lewis Howes?

  You know, even if you feel like you've conquered the fear of something, in order to grow, you've got to take on some new challenge. And there's going to be uncertainty, there's going to be some stress, or there's going to be some worry, or there's going to be some ego checking, and there's going to be some identity crisis.

• 17:40Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 17:41Lewis Howes?

  So there's always going to be this... Fear that could arise.

• 17:45Mel Robbins?

  Always.

• 17:45Lewis Howes?

  Always. I mean, did you, do you feel like, once you've mastered this, that you have no more fear?

• 17:49Mel Robbins?

  Me?

• 17:50Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 17:50Mel Robbins?

  No, the fear still comes, but I have 100% control of what I think and do. So, one of the things that is important for me to put on the table is that, a lot of times, you know, people look at your, where you are now. And so, they'll see me on television, or they'll see that TED Talk, or maybe you'll be in an audience of 20,000 people in the American Airlines Center, and I'm onstage, and you're like, "Wow, that chick must have just been more incompetent. I hate her." The fact is, that's not at all how I was. When I was 19, I started having crazy panic attacks. And they got so bad that I took medication, and medication was a godsend for me. I took

• 18:33Mel Robbins?

  Zoloft for two decades. When I had our first daughter, who is now 17 years old, the postpartum depression was so bad that they put me on Ativan, which turns you into a zombie, and I could not be left alone with her. So, when it comes to self-doubt, and to how we can torture ourselves with our thoughts, boy, have I lived that nightmare. And as I started to use the five-second rule, which we're gonna get into, and everything about my life changed, because when people first learn the rule, what you're gonna learn, what you're gonna start doing is you're gonna start using the rule to push yourself to do things that are annoying. You're gonna push yourself to get up on time. You're gonna push yourself to work on your business plan. You're gonna push yourself to make calls that are scary. You're gonna

• 19:17Mel Robbins?

  push yourself to get to the gym. You're gonna push yourself to speak up more at work. You're gonna push yourself to put the booze down. Behavioral, behavioral, behavioral. And then, you're gonna start to actually use it to change the thinking patterns that are self-sabotaging. So, I, four years ago, wondered, as I started to see myself go from facing bankruptcy, to building, you know, close to an eight-figure business. What happened for me, is I started to say, "Okay, this is a really cool little trick to bring out the most powerful side of you, but can I use this to actually cure myself of anxiety?" And the answer is, yes, you can. And four years ago, I went off Zoloft and I started using the five-second rule,

• 20:00Mel Robbins?

  which I'm going to explain in one second, to interrupt the patterns of worry and self-doubt. Which, by the way, anxiety is nothing more than the habit of worrying, spiraling out of control. And body feelings triggering now, the habit of obsessive worrying that turns into anxiety and then kind of escalates to panic. I started using the five-second rule to interrupt my thoughts every time I would feel that kind of worry kick in. And because the prefrontal cortex is awakened when you use it, your mind is now ready to take on a totally different thought. It's a very different strategy than just trying to switch the channel on what you're thinking, because you're actually inserting the step that nobody talks about, which is switching the gears in your mind, so that your mind can actually take and believe the thinking. Yeah.

• 20:45Lewis Howes?

  Interesting.

• 20:46Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. So the five-second rule.

• 20:48Lewis Howes?

  Wait, first off, when did you discover the five-second rule?

• 20:50Mel Robbins?

  Okay, so 2009.

• 20:52Lewis Howes?

  This is when you first tried it or discovered it?

• 20:55Mel Robbins?

  Oh, it's a total horror show mistake. Yes. So 2009, I was unemployed and feeling like a-

• 21:04Lewis Howes?

  You were unemployed? How?

• 21:06Mel Robbins?

  Well, okay-

• 21:07Lewis Howes?

  Too much charisma, too much passion.

• 21:08Mel Robbins?

  Uh, yeah, because everything's working right now. That's why. I'm not like this when things are not working. Ask my husband of 22 years. Well, what had happened is, I had had all these career changes and I got into the media business, again, by mistake. I had a coaching business and Inc. Magazine was writing an article about coaches and they featured me in it and CNBC called.

• 21:34Lewis Howes?

  Got it.

• 21:35Mel Robbins?

  And that led to me doing some stuff with CNBC and I spent a year still coaching people and then doing some stuff for CNBC and then Fox called. And they were interested in having me host a television show. Now, you've got to understand, I'm from North Muskegon, Michigan. I mean, the media business, Fox, LA. The closest thing I had ever seen to a celebrity, Louis, was the Muskegon lumberjacks, the farm team, right?

• 22:03Lewis Howes?

  Right.

• 22:03Mel Robbins?

  From our, for the Pittsburgh Penguins.

• 22:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, the double A team or whatever.

• 22:07Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, my dad was the hometown doc for the hockey team there.

• 22:09Lewis Howes?

  Right, right, right.

• 22:10Mel Robbins?

  So I thought,

• 22:11Lewis Howes?

  The mayor was a celebrity.

• 22:12Mel Robbins?

  Wow, my life's about to change. I'm about to be a celebrity. Wow, we're gonna solve all, this is amazing, you know? So, I was originally going to be hosting a show for Fox where we were making over small businesses. Yeah, pretty cool, right? We show up, we like do extreme home makeover for the office, everybody's happy. We all know that doesn't solve business problems, but it makes for a nice television show. By the time I get to LA, they've changed the format. It's now called Someone's Gotta Go. And I'm gonna be firing people on national television from real jobs.

• 22:44Lewis Howes?

  Wow.

• 22:44Mel Robbins?

  Uh huh.

• 22:45Lewis Howes?

  That sounds fun.

• 22:46Mel Robbins?

  Horrible.

• 22:47Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 22:48Mel Robbins?

  Plus, we haven't told the offices that this is what we're doing.

• 22:50Lewis Howes?

  Oh my gosh.

• 22:51Mel Robbins?

  So you show up in act one and you've got everybody all like this because they're gonna think they're gonna get new a Kia furniture and a paint job and this is gonna be the best thing in the world for their small business. Now meanwhile, I'm a fourth generation small business owner, so that's like my people. Grew up at a kitchen table with farmers and, you know, my mom at a retail store and my other grandparents were bakers. And so when it comes to like the heart and soul and what's so important when you launch your own business and how personal it is, I mean, this was like gut wrenching. So I show up, the first act, you kick out the owner of the company who then freaks out, then all the employees freak out. Act number two, we announce that somebody's getting fired and then that's, that's the the bad news. The good news is that I'm not picking. We're gonna have you vote somebody out. So it's Survivor in an office place.

• 23:35Lewis Howes?

  Oh my goodness.

• 23:37Mel Robbins?

  So,

• 23:37Lewis Howes?

  That sucks.

• 23:38Mel Robbins?

  When, when I learn all this, I, I have a panic attack even though I'm on Zoloft and I call the guy that got me the gig and say, you gotta get me out of this. Like this is the worst thing that's ever happened to me. And he said, well, I'm sorry, but they've already cast the entire show and you're out there for five weeks and you don't have a choice. They're gonna sue you. And I said, then fine, get me some Xanax, cause I don't think I can get through this thing, like this is awful. Luckily, we taped two episodes and legal tabled it. But here was the problem. I was attached to the show. And I only got paid if the show was shooting. And being an entrepreneur, I also kind of put, yes, put all my energy into this, shut down

• 24:19Mel Robbins?

  the coaching thing, really thought that, also kind of negotiated a deal that was sort of a back end deal, thinking I'm a, you know, entrepreneur, always thinking about, got to have a piece of the action, yes. Yeah, that was a dumb move. And I was in a contract for a year while they figured out what to do.

• 24:38Lewis Howes?

  So you couldn't do another show? Yeah.

• 24:40Mel Robbins?

  So, you know, I just felt like I had made a huge mistake and I felt really embarrassed. And I didn't know at the age of 41, what I should be doing with my life. And while it's neat that I had jumped careers so many times, I started to feel like somebody that actually wasn't successful at all. Cause I didn't have a career track. I had a bunch of jumps from one thing to another. Now, looking back, it makes perfect sense, but standing in the middle of the mess, it just felt like everything was caving in. Probably just like when you were sleeping on your couch, feeling injured and like, everything I thought that was about to happen, isn't happening now. Meanwhile, my husband had opened up a restaurant business. It had been his dream. He worked in high tech and came home one day after getting laid off and said, I, I'm

• 25:23Mel Robbins?

  never going to get on a plane and do a PowerPoint presentation for a company. I don't care about our own. And I said, great, what's your plan? And he said, I'm going to open a pizza restaurant. And I looked at him and I said, was there a trust fund that was part of this marriage that I was unaware of? Cause I'm not quite sure how we're going to.

• 25:39Lewis Howes?

  Cause where you get the money? Did someone die? You got an insurance policy?

• 25:44Mel Robbins?

  And he said, no. And I then said the most famous lines of our 22 year marriage, Louis. I looked at him and I said, listen buddy, inspiration is for strangers. You get your ass back to that job and you pay the mortgage and you forget the dream. You're not going to this. Well, cause change is scary. So we fought and he won. And the first one was a real homerun.

• 26:10Lewis Howes?

  You opened a pizza store?

• 26:11Mel Robbins?

  Oh, he did, yeah. Forty, forty seats, right outside of Boston, Massachusetts. He and his best friend. And they won Best of Boston. It was incredible. What do you do when everything's?

• 26:19Lewis Howes?

  Did they make money though?

• 26:20Mel Robbins?

  They did on the first one. So what do you do? When everything's working? Woo, let's go all chips in. Let's put in the home equity line. Let's put in the kids' college savings. Let's get friends and family. Because you're so excited, you, you think it's going to work. So you go big, big, big. Well, the second one did not work at all. And it did not work at all so badly that when it was finally closed, it was close to an $800,000 loss and it meant our entire home equity line, kids, college savings, everything went right down with it. That was right when I lost the Fox show. So I'm unemployed, the liens start hitting the house. The phone starts ringing all the time and it's collections calls. So you unplug the phone?

• 27:03Lewis Howes?

  That would stress me out.

• 27:04Mel Robbins?

  Well, you just unplug the phone. I mean, that's how you deal with that. But I, I, I remember, I remember two things from that period of my life that were really painful. And one was having to call the town and tell them that we could not afford the 175 bucks for our sixth grader to play soccer. So we needed to pull her out. And I remember there being times, because I was so afraid to look at the checking account, that I would stand at the grocery store and items would scan and I could just feel that wave of anxiety rising, thinking, I don't, I don't think the check card's gonna go through. And so I would stand there. I always had an excuse and it was to look at the person and go, oh, that's strange. It just worked at the gas station.

• 27:45Lewis Howes?

  Oh, my gosh.

• 27:47Mel Robbins?

  Because I, what would have been more empowering is to probably say, oh, well, I guess I don't have the money for this. Let's take this, this, and this. And just kind of, like, the easiest thing to do is to tell the truth. But I was so filled with shame.

• 27:58Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 27:59Mel Robbins?

  So I started to develop this habit of hitting the snooze button. Because what would happen is the alarm would go off in the morning and the first thing I would think about is all the problems that we had. And how awfully things had gone off the tracks.

• 28:16Lewis Howes?

  You didn't want to deal with them?

• 28:17Mel Robbins?

  No. And I, and I also didn't know, I didn't know, I didn't think I could. And this goes back to the feelings. Like, you, you think that you need to feel confident or courageous in order to get started. You don't. You actually just have to start. And that's the riddle of life. That lying in bed, hoping that you wake up some morning motivated to change, that's not the answer. You actually have to learn how to push yourself. You have to learn how to, how to leverage the power of your decisions. And you've got to learn how to take action when you don't. Feel like it. Because every morning when I woke up, I did not feel confident. I felt like a loser. I felt like the world's worst parent. I felt like I had failed at every single turn.

• 29:02Mel Robbins?

  I did not know if Chris and I could pull out of this spiral. I did not know if we were going to go bankrupt and lose the house and move from our community. I did not know if our marriage would survive. I knew I wanted it to. And see, this is the knowledge-action gap. You can know what you want, you can know what you should be doing, but how do you make yourself do it when the feelings and the motivation isn't there? When all you got is fear? And so, every night, I would lie in bed and I would say to myself, "All right, that's it, Mel. Tomorrow, it's the new you. Tomorrow, you're gonna wake up and be motivated, you're gonna get up, you're gonna exercise like everybody says you should, you're gonna meditate, you're gonna get those kids on

• 29:46Mel Robbins?

  the bus, you're gonna screw Fox, you're gonna look for a job, you're gonna cold-call Cox Media, and you're gonna do auditions. Come on, girl, let's go, let's go, let's go. You're gonna take a cold shower. Woo! You know, here we go." And I meant it when I was saying it. Maybe it was the alcohol that was talking, but then I would wake up, and I didn't feel any of those things. So I would hit the snooze. And I would hit the snooze. Now, why was I hitting the snooze? When I knew it wasn't the right decision. I'm gonna tell you why. And this is something that I was blown away by when I discovered it. You don't make decisions with your goals. You don't make decisions with your prefrontal cortex. You don't make decisions with logic. Do you know how we make decisions? I didn't invent this. A neuroscientist by the name of Damasio, who does his research

• 30:30Mel Robbins?

  in Brazil, who gave an incredible TED Talk and wrote about this forever and ever and ever. We make decisions with feelings.

• 30:38Mel Robbins?

  Ninety-five percent of our decisions are made by how you feel in the moment. And that is the problem. You need to take control of the moment and leverage the power of your decisions and make them up here. Because when I was lying in bed, I wasn't saying to myself, "I should get up because that's gonna help me start my day right." I was saying, "Do I feel like getting up?"

• 31:01Lewis Howes?

  No, you don't.

• 31:02Mel Robbins?

  No. Do you feel like making that cold call? No, you don't. Do you feel like doing that third set of reps? No, you don't. Do you feel like having that hard conversation? No, you don't. Do you feel like ending this relationship, whether it's in business or in your life, that is sucking you dry? No, you don't. We make decisions based on our feelings, and that is robbing you of joy and opportunity. And it is blinding you from the fact that all... how you change your life is one five-second decision at a time. One push at a time. And if you, if you accept the fact that you may never feel ready, and you may never feel motivated, and you may never feel confident, you may never feel courageous, and that's

• 31:46Mel Robbins?

  okay, but you can still push yourself forward. What happens over time is, as you start to see yourself becoming the person that takes action, that you start to see yourself becoming the kind of person that speaks, even though your voice is shaking, you're the kind of person that, that, that has a bias toward moving, instead of a bias toward thinking, guess what happens? You build the skill of confidence and courage. And so what happened for me is, I was stuck, Louis, I mean, I was so stuck, I was on, I mean, we were heading straight for divorce, we were heading for bankruptcy, I knew I wanted to change things, and so one night, I see this commercial. This is the stupidest story on the planet, but this is what happened.

• 32:27Mel Robbins?

  I see this commercial, and, you know, again, I, I also was drinking too much, I mean, I probably had a couple of Manhattans in me, that was my drink, I'm from the Midwest, just like you. All right, little Manhattan there, a little bourbon. And there was a rocket ship launching.

• 32:42Lewis Howes?

  On a commercial?

• 32:44Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. And I had this instinct. This innovation, this disruptive idea, right? Oh my god, Mel. That's the answer. Tomorrow morning, you're gonna launch your ass out of bed like a rocket ship. You're gonna move so fast, you can't even think about your problems. Dumb, right?

• 33:04Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 33:05Mel Robbins?

  Totally dumb. Seems like this is the dumbest idea I've ever heard. I cannot believe I have this chick on my podcast.

• 33:09Lewis Howes?

  I understand it. You gotta get moving first.

• 33:11Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 33:12Lewis Howes?

  That's the thing. You just gotta wake up at 6:00 a.m. or whatever it is, and go into the gym. And when you're in the gym, you're gonna start moving the first weight.

• 33:19Mel Robbins?

  Yes.

• 33:20Lewis Howes?

  And then you'll start moving the second weight.

• 33:21Mel Robbins?

  Actually, people use the five-second rule at the gym, because you know how much time people waste at the gym, standing around thinking about the next thing?

• 33:26Lewis Howes?

  Probably 70% of the time.

• 33:27Mel Robbins?

  5, 4, 3, 2, 1. So the next morning, the alarm goes off, and nothing had changed in my life. I woke up to the lean on the house, the fighting with Chris, the unemployment, the lack of confidence, the lack of courage, like, the whole thing. But I did something I had never done before. I went 5, 4, 3, 2, 1. Just like NASA. I actually counted. And then I stood up, and I was like,

• 33:50Lewis Howes?

  [laughing]

• 33:52Mel Robbins?

  "What the hell just happened?" "Wha- what? That is the dumbest thing I've ever heard." The next morning, I used it again, it worked. The next morning, I used it again, it worked. And then I started to notice something, and this is one of those things. So we have an 11-year-old son who has dyslexia, and when they finally diagnosed him, it was as if, of course. It was as if, like, how could we have possibly missed this? Are we the worst parents in the world? I mean, the kid can barely write, he can't cut his food, he doesn't read, like, no wonder he doesn't do team sports. It was right under our nose. And what I'm about to tell you is right under everybody's nose. There's a five-second window between the instincts, the shoulds, the urges, the inner

• 34:34Mel Robbins?

  wisdom, the things that can change your life if you listen to it. Got a five-second window from the moment you feel that instinct to move. And if you don't, your brain is actually designed to kill it. Five seconds is all you have. The second you hesitate, and you feel yourself hesitating, that is a moment of huge power, because what's happened is you've just started to pull back from something that you need to lean into. And if you count backwards, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and this is the neuroscience behind why this stupid little trick works, counting is an action. Counting backwards requires focus. It's also not a habit for you yet. So when you feel yourself hesitate, you're triggering your mind that something's up.

• 35:17Mel Robbins?

  Like Louis didn't hesitate when he pulled on his pants, he didn't hesitate when he's drinking his coffee, he didn't hesitate when he walked out the door to the gym, but now he's hesitating to make that call? Your mind now goes into a cognitive bias called the spotlight effect. It magnifies whatever it was that you hesitated doing. The moment. The moment, yeah. Like, all of a sudden, you're like, "I don't feel like it, like, I don't know, maybe I'll do it later." And your mind is doing it because your mind's trying to protect you. Hesitation signals a red flag to your mind that something's up. Just that small hesitation, it's a habit that we all have. Should you hesitate if you're getting a tattoo? Yes. Should you hesitate if you're gambling? Yes. Should you hesitate if you are signing a legal document? Yes. You need your prefrontal cortex for those things. You need to interrupt it, make a power, make a decision.

• 36:02Mel Robbins?

  Should you hesitate on making a phone call? No. Should you hesitate on speaking up in a meeting? No. Should you hesitate when you feel yourself starting to procrastinate, and you know you got work that you should get done? No, you shouldn't hesitate at all. Should you hesitate in saying the thing that you really feel in your heart? No, you shouldn't. Should you hesitate and edit yourself when you're talking? No, you shouldn't. But we've all trained ourselves to. So it's actually this habit of hesitating. You start catching yourself, it's a huge moment of power because you have a decision to make, and you've got to make it in the next five seconds. Are you going to go on autopilot and get trapped in your mind? Or are you going to 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and awaken your prefrontal cortex and drive forward?

• 36:41Mel Robbins?

  So, I started to use this rule as I noticed that every day, all day long, I had these moments of inner wisdom where...

• 36:51Mel Robbins?

  I would know that I needed to pick up the phone and stop isolating myself. I would know that I needed to call a bunch of media companies and start auditioning for radio show hosting gigs. I knew that I should get out of bed on time. I knew I should stop myself before I snapped at Chris. Right? Self-monitor. I knew I should not let the frustration be the things that was driving me. And so I started to use the rule all day long. Whenever I felt this, I should do this, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and I would make myself do it. And slowly, 5 seconds at a time, my entire life started to change. And my husband used it in his business, and he and his business partner dove in. They went on to open 7 more restaurants.

• 37:32Mel Robbins?

  I went on to launch and sell 2 businesses and get recruited by CNN and join their team. I had a syndicated radio show that ended up winning the Gracie Award, which is kind of the female media awards for the number 1 talk show in the country.

• 37:48Mel Robbins?

  And I never intended to tell anybody about the 5-second rule. First of all, because it's stupid. I mean, come on. Count backwards? That's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.

• 37:58Lewis Howes?

  Not stupid to me, though. Anything that works, works for me.

• 38:00Mel Robbins?

  That's true.

• 38:00Lewis Howes?

  You know what I mean? I'll take any stupid thing.

• 38:02Mel Robbins?

  That's true. And so, but I also was like, how do you start talking about something like that? Right? So, I was asked to give a TED Talk like 6 years ago. And TED, 6 years ago, not the brand that it was today. They weren't even putting the talks online yet.

• 38:16Lewis Howes?

  Really?

• 38:16Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. The TEDx Talks were not online yet. And so that was the first speech I'd ever given in my life. If you want to see what somebody looks like having a panic attack for 21 minutes straight, watch that speech. I was backstage, and it was like 1 PhD after another going out there. I'm like, what the hell have I gotten myself into? This is the dumbest thing! And so, at the very end, I wasn't even planning on talking about it.

• 38:39Mel Robbins?

  I say, oh, by the way, there's this thing I do. That's it. I don't even explain it. And you know why I didn't explain it, Louis? I didn't know why it worked.

• 38:47Lewis Howes?

  So you didn't have the science, the research? You were just like...

• 38:49Mel Robbins?

  Zero. Zero. And then something crazy happened. They put that talk online a year later, and people started to write. We've heard from more than 100,000 people in 90 countries that have written to us.

• 39:04Mel Robbins?

  That are using the rule in ways big and small to change their lives, to change their marriages, to change their thinking patterns, to grow their businesses. We know of 11 people that have stopped themselves from killing themselves. In the moment, there's a gentleman that we talk about in the book and you can see his social media posts in London. He was a veteran and he was suffering from post-traumatic stress disorder and he boarded a ferry with the intention of jumping overboard. And he got to the railing and he was standing there and his inner wisdom kicked in. And this is another thing I want everybody watching to understand. I don't care what you're facing, or how low you get. Your inner wisdom is always there.

• 39:48Mel Robbins?

  It is. And the thing is, is that we often don't listen to it. And so he's standing there intending to kill himself and that inner wisdom kicks in and he remembers the five-second rule. And he goes 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, and he turns and physically moves away from the railing and finds the first person working on the ferry and tells him that he's suicidal. Saved his life. He saved his life because he listened to the inner wisdom. And this is the other thing I love about this rule. It's not something to think about, it's a tool to use. So the part of the problem with a lot of the advice that I've found, for me personally, is that a lot of advice is all about kind of doing mental battle.

• 40:30Mel Robbins?

  And if I go upstairs, I'm behind enemy lines and I tend to get hijacked. So I love this tool because 5, 4, 3, 2, 1 interrupts those patterns. It actually prompts the part of the brain that I need in order to change. And it makes changing easier because I've now got my mind working for me instead of against me and it gets me out of my head. And so I'm, I'm super excited to share this rule with people because I now know, not only that it's working, just not, not for me, it's working for people around the world. And, you know, in the book, it took me three years to write it. It's all the science behind the rule.

• 41:11Mel Robbins?

  It's got more than 150 social media posts in it, so you see stories from around the world of people using it to end procrastination, to build confidence, to deepen their relationships, to launch businesses, to explode the sales. Why does it help with sales? I'll tell you why. Because you can't sell by thinking. Selling is about action. We have, we have groups from companies around the world, sales teams that put 54321 up on the wall. I'm sure they hate me.

• 41:40Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 41:40Mel Robbins?

  Yes, because what, cold calling, it's a momentum thing. If you stop and think, the phone is not getting, the dialing is not happening when you're thinking.

• 41:47Lewis Howes?

  Yeah. If you're thinking about all those no's you've been getting, you're not going to want to do it again because it doesn't feel good.

• 41:52Mel Robbins?

  Yes. And if you're in the middle of a negotiation, or you're in the middle of a really difficult conversation, and again, remember what we said earlier, you cannot control your feelings that rise up, but you can always control how you think and what you do. So if you're in the middle of a difficult conversation, and you feel those feelings come up that normally trigger you to start editing yourself, or to censor yourself, or to silence yourself, or to think sabotaging thoughts in like a business negotiation, 54321, awaken the prefrontal cortex, get back in the game.

• 42:26Lewis Howes?

  How has this rule helped you the most? In what area of your life? With your, your marriage, your business, and being more productive, and not having to, you know, take drugs when you're worried so much, or on stage, what's the area where you're like, wow, this has really had the biggest impact? And I'm sure all of it, but...

• 42:42Mel Robbins?

  Well, the most important thing in my life is my marriage. So my relationship with Chris is like the thing that brings me the greatest joy. I mean, I'll just start crying thinking about it. And...

• 42:54Lewis Howes?

  How many years have you been married?

• 42:55Mel Robbins?

  Twenty, 20 years. We've been together for 22 years. Three kids, 17, 16, 11. It has given me mastery over myself. Like, I get so choked up just thinking about this. Like, I used to feel out of control. And this rule allows me to be the best version of me, and to interrupt, like, all the garbage that can trigger you to behave in a way that's inconsistent with your values and your dreams. And so, that has been the single greatest gift.

• 43:34Mel Robbins?

  That, and also, you know, I think the other thing that's super cool is that it is a tool that certainly prompts you to act, but it is also a tool that helps you tune in to your inner wisdom. Like, you're not only gonna start waking up, you'll be so in tune with those signals that come from your instincts, not emotional, not instinctual, like instinctual, that you get a direct line to your inner voice. You get a direct line. You know, all those people, one of the things that's always, that's always struck me, so if you, if you list all the people that you admire, right? Yeah, Richard Branson, Oprah Winfrey, Bill Gates, like, everybody's got kinda this, yeah, well, whatever.

• 44:18Mel Robbins?

  Louis, for sure. If you list all those people, Jay-Z, like, everybody. Everybody that you admire is doing the exact same thing. They actually listen to their inner wisdom. They have figured out how to tune out the critic up here and trust the instincts. And, you know, I have this saying about confidence that I've only recently kinda stumbled into as I've been digging into more research around the science of confidence and the skill of confidence, because a lot of people think that confidence is a personality trait, it's not. It's actually a skill that you build through action. And a lot of people think confidence is a state of belief. It can be, but that's not where it begins.

• 45:02Mel Robbins?

  And so, I say that confidence is the willingness to try. That's all that it is. Knowing that you may succeed or survive, but you'll still try. And, to me, all those people that we admire most, that's what they're doing. They have the ability to tune into those instincts that are true for them, because the fact is, there's only one you. That's it. And you matter because there's only one you and there's only ever gonna be one you. And your instincts and your experiences and your inner wisdom is a gift to the world.

• 45:44Mel Robbins?

  And every time that you tune it out because of the habit of hesitating, or the habit of self doubt, or the habit of worrying, or the habit of overthinking, you are robbing the world of that gift that you have to give to everybody. And you can use this simple stupid silly tool to train yourself to not only hear it, but also to develop the skill of courage to act on it.

• 46:09Lewis Howes?

  Powerful. And is there any area of your life where you feel like you lack courage still?

• 46:15Mel Robbins?

  Um, you know, I'll admit, it's kind of easy. I think we all kind of go through those moments where you feel like you're behind. And I think social media is both an incredible tool, and it can also be one of those triggers that makes you feel like, "Look at how many followers this guy has." And like, "I'm so tiny compared to this guy right here." Like, it's easy to use technology and social media not for inspiration, but actually as a way to bash yourself that you're not doing what other people are doing.

• 46:51Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, comparison and whatever.

• 46:51Mel Robbins?

  Yes. And so I think that I use the rule a lot for patience. I notice that my insecurity rises up because right now, you know, look, I did a ridiculous number of speeches last year. I travel way too much. I don't want my life to look like that. It's a champagne problem, I get it. But I also have three kids and a marriage that I love, and I really feel depleted when I'm not with them. And so I'm practicing patience as I make an intentional pivot in the kind of business that I'm running so that I have more of a life that I want as well. So that's one area.

• 47:30Mel Robbins?

  You know, I don't feel insecure as much as, you know, you know the term deliberate practice, right? And you know the five-hour rule.

• 47:37Lewis Howes?

  Deliberate practice, is that from The Talent Code?

• 47:39Mel Robbins?

  Well, the deliberate practice is actually a psychological principle.

• 47:42Lewis Howes?

  I think it was in a book called The Talent Code, but yeah.

• 47:44Mel Robbins?

  Oh, yeah? Okay. Well, it's a psychological principle that, and you know the 10,000-hour rule.

• 47:48Lewis Howes?

  For sports, I mean deliberate practice is in sports.

• 47:50Mel Robbins?

  Yes, so deliberate practice is this idea that, yeah, you could do 10,000 hours at anything and become an expert at it, but the way to do it faster is to deliberate, to do deliberate practice, which means you're practicing with the intention of improving, and there's a feedback loop.

• 48:05Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, give you 2,000 hours as opposed to 10,000.

• 48:07Mel Robbins?

  Correct. Like, for example, if you want to become an expert at guitar, learn scales. Don't just sit there for 10,000 hours and play the same song. If you learn scales, you get the finger dexterity and the muscle memory and the neural pathway development.

• 48:19Lewis Howes?

  Scales are hard, by the way.

• 48:20Mel Robbins?

  Yes, I saw your guitar over there.

• 48:21Lewis Howes?

  It's so hard.

• 48:22Mel Robbins?

  I saw your guitar. You know, I always wanted to play guitar, but instead I forced my three children to learn.

• 48:26Lewis Howes?

  That's good. You just enjoy it. You just watch them.

• 48:29Mel Robbins?

  Exactly.

• 48:30Lewis Howes?

  My brother's the number-one jazz violinist in the world.

• 48:31Mel Robbins?

  What?

• 48:32Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, and so I grew up watching the most incredible, like...

• 48:36Mel Robbins?

  Now, is he built like you, too?

• 48:38Lewis Howes?

  He used to be even like more jacked. They used to call him the Incredible Hulk of violin, because he was just like...

• 48:42Mel Robbins?

  Wow, snap the thing in half? Is he like, "You know, I am playing it"?

• 48:45Lewis Howes?

  He would. He would slam it like Jimi Hendrix style, yeah. But now he's leaned up a bunch, actually, and so he's incredible. So I used to just be awestruck by his gifts, and it was unbelievable, his skill. And so I learned guitar, I taught myself when I was 18, just because I was like, I have to know something, you know, in terms of music.

• 49:04Mel Robbins?

  That's pretty cool.

• 49:05Lewis Howes?

  I can barely, you know, I'm like a hack, but, you know, at least I could do something.

• 49:08Mel Robbins?

  Yeah. So I'm kind of in this mode of improving myself, and I'll give you one more thing that I'm working on. So I kind of think about my life and my work in three buckets. So we got this bucket here, we got this bucket, and we got this bucket. And so when you think about your business, or you think about your passion, or you think about work, I think about, okay, what do I need to do in terms of how much time and what actions do I need to take in order to develop the skills so that I can perform the work? So there's the deliberate practice that goes into practicing your skill...

• 49:39Lewis Howes?

  Skill mastery.

• 49:40Mel Robbins?

  Yep, and your competency, mastery, so that when it comes time to actually deliver the work, whether that's selling, or standing on a stage, or writing a book, or talking to people, or selling real estate, or whatever it is that may be your passion, deliver. This is the one I neglected last year.

• 49:57Lewis Howes?

  Which is?

• 49:58Mel Robbins?

  This bucket is, what are you doing to personally develop yourself?

• 50:04Mel Robbins?

  So that you are the most capable, fulfilled, and satisfied human being. So that when you show up to do your competency and your skills and the delivery, that you, as the human being, are able to do that.

• 50:21Lewis Howes?

  Yeah.

• 50:21Mel Robbins?

  And so I've been spending a lot more time consuming content, reading books, watching, you know, your incredible show, and learning from other people. And I think that one of the traps that we entrepreneurs get into is we... I was feeling last year, anyway, like I was on a treadmill. And when I wasn't looking, somebody was coming by and turning up the speed.

• 50:45Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 50:45Mel Robbins?

  And I was only in this alley.

• 50:47Lewis Howes?

  And increasing the hills.

• 50:52Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and so, and if you're my age, you need like a diaper when somebody does that. You're on a treadmill and a leash to keep you attached to it.

• 50:58Lewis Howes?

  The incline, yes.

• 50:58Mel Robbins?

  Exactly. So I've been focusing a lot on this. And it's been interesting, because you and I were talking earlier, too, about you going to India and some of the stuff that you learned in terms of the different states to be in. And I use one where I pay attention to where I'm feeling depleted versus where I'm energized. And here's the thing, you can be doing things that are really hard that energize you. You can be doing things that are really scary that energize you.

• 51:28Mel Robbins?

  The same is true with things that deplete you. There are things in your life that are really easy for you. There are people that you hang out with, by the way, that you've been hanging out with for years. But they deplete you. And so I've been starting to become more deliberate about how I distance myself from things that deplete me and how I spend more time and energy either doing or pushing myself to do those things that actually energize me. And this gets back to your message around passion, right? And that, you know, the art and the skill of building a life that is guided by the things that you're passionate about. So what is something that you're worried about or feeling insecure about or that like is the next big thing for you? I know you've got a big book launch coming.

• 52:14Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, that's one thing. I mean, I'm talking about a topic on masculinity. Actually, before-

• 52:18Mel Robbins?

  Where are you going? Are you gonna do something with my-

• 52:20Lewis Howes?

  I will mention that, but here's the thing also I wanted to add. If this is, you know, mastering the skills-

• 52:25Mel Robbins?

  Yep.

• 52:26Lewis Howes?

  And this is working on it or executing it-

• 52:29Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 52:30Lewis Howes?

  If we, you know, just to emphasize this, I was great at these two things as well my entire life. And I would achieve all my goals by executing the work-

• 52:39Mel Robbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:39Lewis Howes?

  On the skills.

• 52:40Mel Robbins?

  Mm-hmm.

• 52:41Lewis Howes?

  But I'd never had the fulfillment and I was always lacking the inner peace or the inner- I don't know, it was just never enough. And so, I never filled this up. I always went back to mastering more skills and taking more action and mastering skills and just feel like it was never enough.

• 52:56Mel Robbins?

  I hear ya.

• 52:57Lewis Howes?

  Cause I never filled up this cup.

• 52:58Mel Robbins?

  Right.

• 52:59Lewis Howes?

  And once I started to, you know, about four years ago, opening up about a lot of the different traumas that I went through as a child and just like growing up, you know, being sexually abused-

• 53:07Mel Robbins?

  Me too.

• 53:08Lewis Howes?

  By a man that I didn't know, my brother being in prison, you know, parents getting divorced, like almost every kid. It was, and being bullied, you know, just everything and being dyslexic and being in the bottom of my grade and all these things. Growing up all through school, not being able to read and write. I never filled this up. And so, I was just so driven to prove people wrong.

• 53:26Mel Robbins?

  Hmm.

• 53:26Lewis Howes?

  Learn the skills, master something and show people that they're wrong about me. And it was just never enough. It was just this endless cycle of like never enough. No matter how big, how much money I made was never enough. Until I started to work on this cup and this bucket and then everything shifted. So, it's important that we do that as much as these two.

• 53:45Mel Robbins?

  Yes, and you know, I know sometimes that message falls flat, you know, when you're in this- when you're, you're committed to providing that kind of content for people and you can get focused on creating it and not actually-

• 53:56Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 53:57Mel Robbins?

  Being somebody that, that is consuming enough of it. And so, that's a huge change that I made. Funny enough, on the, on the, um, male side. One of the biggest shifts that happened in my marriage with Chris is we had always been kind of even Steven partners, both with the parenting and with the finances and, and supporting one another, except for that phase where I was a real bitch and I was like saying, "You cannot follow your dreams." That was all fear talking.

• 54:20Lewis Howes?

  Sure.

• 54:22Mel Robbins?

  One of the coolest things that's happened for us is that as my speaking career took off organically and the world basically said, "Lady, you need to teach the world this message and we don't care how much you're gonna kick and scream about it, we're gonna keep putting you on stages and the phone's gonna keep ringing and we need to know, people need to know about this." My husband had always, like you, youngest of three boys, dad was crazy successful, wasn't around because he traveled all the time. Chris had always had this thing in his mind that he hoped that they would grow the restaurant business and he would have this big kind of liquidity event and then he could take off four years and teach and be with our kids. And it just so turned out that it didn't work out that way in the restaurant business,

• 55:06Mel Robbins?

  but my career went like this. And so subsequently, we wouldn't be able to have the marriage or the family if Chris weren't running point at home. Right. And what's so cool... Someone's gotta be there. Well, yeah, but what's so cool is for an entire year, he beat himself up about it. Uh huh. And then, he got sober. He went to a yoga intensive training. He's now a certified yoga instructor. He has a tractor. He just, he runs the booster club for our high school sports. He created a triathlon in our town that's one of the biggest fundraisers for the town. The guy has like found himself and his strength and we've realized something in our marriage

• 55:48Mel Robbins?

  where he's just not driven in terms of the financial piece or the, you know, in the way that I am. And part of the conflict in our relationship for a long time was me putting those societal demands on him, him feeling the obligation. And so, the thing that's also been really cool is that when you start to discover the courage to speak what's true for you, it's amazing how things shake out and fall into place and it gives other people the courage to explore and figure out what's true for them. Because the fact is, he is a way better, way better parent than I am, especially for the ages that our kids are. And, um...

• 56:31Mel Robbins?

  It's, and you know, I have this saying where I feel like every phase of your life requires a different you. And the phase that I'm in right now and the kind of parent that I am is, will be totally different when our daughter heads off to college next year. Different phase of my life is going to require a different phase of me. And so it's been so killer to see us step into this different phase where he is so happy and self-expressed. And you know, I was, I was reminded of it because you talked about this project and I want to hear more about it, about what you're working on because he's now launching this tiny little retreat for guys.

• 57:08Lewis Howes?

  That's cool.

• 57:09Mel Robbins?

  You know, going, he's a big Knowles guy. So they're going off into the mountains and really exploring. Success is one thing. What does it actually mean to be satisfied with your life on your own terms and who you are? And so he's in this really cool inquiry about what does satisfaction with your life really look like when you take full responsibility for what truly matters to you?

• 57:32Lewis Howes?

  Powerful.

• 57:33Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 57:34Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, fulfillment. I mean, we can all learn how to be successful, but if we can't be fulfilled, then it's a failure, you know?

• 57:40Mel Robbins?

  Yeah.

• 57:41Lewis Howes?

  Success or failure without fulfillment. So, yeah, I, you know, the book I'm talking about is, it's called The Mask of Masculinity. And it's tapping into really what it means to be a man and redefining the new man as opposed to like what society has put on us.

• 57:57Mel Robbins?

  Like beyond you guys wearing skinny jeans?

• 57:59Lewis Howes?

  Exactly, yes, exactly. Yes. So I'm, you know, I'm, I'm excited about it. I guess I'm a little nervous.

• 58:05Mel Robbins?

  Has it been confronting?

• 58:06Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, I mean, because in every chapter I break down myself and all the mistakes I've made as a man and like, you know.

• 58:12Mel Robbins?

  Now, are you in a relationship?

• 58:13Lewis Howes?

  I am, yeah.

• 58:14Mel Robbins?

  You are? How long have you been?

• 58:16Lewis Howes?

  About three years, yeah.

• 58:17Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 58:18Lewis Howes?

  Yeah, with a break in between, but yeah.

• 58:19Mel Robbins?

  With the same person?

• 58:20Lewis Howes?

  Yes.

• 58:21Mel Robbins?

  Okay.

• 58:22Lewis Howes?

  So it's, it's been a lot of growth for me, yeah. A lot of scary, you know, uncomfortable conversations, fears that I've

• 58:30Lewis Howes?

  You know, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1, right into it, and it addressed it. And, you know, I'm still figuring it out. I don't have all the answers still. I think the reason I love doing this show is because I interview and connect with the most inspiring people in the world, who I want to learn from and see, you know, how I can be better in the areas that they're strong in. So for me, it's a selfish reason doing this show to like, take on so much great information and say, "Oh, how can I apply that to my life?" And how can I share that with the world?

• 58:55Mel Robbins?

  You know, it's amazing. And, you know, one of the things that you said to me when we first started is, "What do you want to get out of this?" And I talked about how I just want to spread the idea that you can change your life in five seconds. And I want to spread the idea that you can't control how you feel, but you can always choose how you think and what you do. And one of the things that's so cool is that, you know, you and I are both outcome thinkers. So we think about the outcome that we want, and then we figure out, "How am I going to get there?" And when you go through life like that, it gives you so much mastery over how you're going to behave, because you're thinking about the things that you want to cause.

• 59:31Lewis Howes?

  Right. Yeah, it's powerful. I want to wrap it up with a few final questions. Because I think you got to leave here soon, so. This one is called "The Three Truths." And if it was the last day for you many years from now, and you've achieved everything you want...

• 59:46Mel Robbins?

  Or if the plane crashes today?

• 59:47Lewis Howes?

  No, no. You've achieved everything you want.

• 59:51Mel Robbins?

  And if it does, it does. I mean, what am I going to do?

• 59:53Lewis Howes?

  Nothing you can do about it, that's right. And you've written all the books in the world that you want to, the courses, the speeches, everything you've done. You've spoken to the world. But for whatever reason, all you have is a pen and a piece of paper to write down three final truths, and they have nothing else to be reminded of you.

• 1:00:11Mel Robbins?

  Are you trying to make me cry?

• 1:00:13Lewis Howes?

  No, no.

• 1:00:14Mel Robbins?

  Oh, my lord, okay.

• 1:00:15Lewis Howes?

  Every episode, we talk about this. So all your books are erased, all your videos are gone, the TED Talks with hundreds of millions of views are gone. You have a piece of paper and a pen, three final truths that you would share with the world. And this is all they have to remember you by. What would that be?

• 1:00:31Mel Robbins?

  It would be that...

• 1:00:34Mel Robbins?

  There's only one you and there will only ever be one you. So make sure that you listen to what your heart is saying and always do that. I would say you can change your life in five seconds. And the moment that you feel the instinct to act, count five, four, three, two, one, then go.

• 1:00:54Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. I love it. It's a great answer. I want to make sure everyone gets this book. This is going to change your life. Five Second Rule. Make sure to go grab it right now. Get it on Amazon. Get it on Barnes and Noble. Go to your local bookstore. It's everywhere. Go get it. And send a message to Mel on Twitter or Instagram or Facebook. What's your... Is it the same handle everywhere?

• 1:01:18Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, it's basically Mel Robbins.

• 1:01:20Lewis Howes?

  No, I...

• 1:01:20Mel Robbins?

  We use the hashtag FiveSecondRule. And one cool thing I want you to know, when you spend... It's 15 bucks right now on Amazon and I'm so proud because we're number one new release in four categories.

• 1:01:29Lewis Howes?

  Congrats. Amazing.

• 1:01:31Mel Robbins?

  Thank you. And more importantly, it's changing lives around the world. We taped 31 crazy, awesome mentoring sessions. And on the back page of this book, there's a little URL right here where you get them for free.

• 1:01:43Lewis Howes?

  Awesome. Cool.

• 1:01:44Mel Robbins?

  Yeah, so you get these videos that we shot at the house that are awesome about my Jedi mind tricks that I use.

• 1:01:49Lewis Howes?

  Sure. Awesome.

• 1:01:50Mel Robbins?

  And parenting and relationships and overwhelm and all that stuff.

• 1:01:53Lewis Howes?

  MelRobbins.com/31Sessions and check out MelRobbins.com to get more information. I'm excited. We'll link everything up in the show notes. Before I ask the final question, I want to acknowledge you for a moment, Mel, for your incredible gift and contribution to this world. You are a unique, lovely inspiration and I'm dead serious. I didn't know who you were before about three weeks ago. And I reached out to you and I was just like, I'm really curious about learning more about you and connecting with you. And I'm so glad that I did because you are making a massive impact. So I'm so grateful we've connected. I'm so glad my audience gets to watch this and hear about you. And make sure you guys follow her because she's a game changer. So thank you for being here. Yes, thank you. I appreciate it.

• 1:02:38Mel Robbins?

  All right, right back at you. So listen, I've been stalking you for more than two years. And so I feel like a little bit of a fangirl walking in to tape this. And the thing that really jumps out to me is just you are a guy that is all about abundance and passion. And the thing that is so rare in this world is people that open up. Their hearts and their influence to help everybody around you. And so I just love your heart, I love your soul, and I love the generosity of spirit that you have for the world. And it has been such a privilege and such a freaking fangirl moment to be here with Louis. Oh my God, and wear the headset and get to share this with your audience.

• 1:03:20Lewis Howes?

  I appreciate it.

• 1:03:20Mel Robbins?

  Truly, so anything I can do to help you.

• 1:03:23Lewis Howes?

  Thank you.

• 1:03:23Mel Robbins?

  You put me on speed dial, brother.

• 1:03:25Lewis Howes?

  I will, I will. I have one final question.

• 1:03:27Mel Robbins?

  Please.

• 1:03:28Lewis Howes?

  What's your definition of greatness?

• 1:03:30Mel Robbins?

  Of greatness?

• 1:03:30Lewis Howes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:03:31Mel Robbins?

  Hearing your tooth and speaking it, no matter how your voice shakes.

• 1:03:35Lewis Howes?

  Mel Robbins, thank you so much for being here. Appreciate it.

• 1:03:37Mel Robbins?

  Thank you.

• 1:03:41Lewis Howes?

  Boom shakalaka. Alright guys, you heard it here. Mel Robbins, she is incredible. This interview for me was incredible. I hope you enjoyed it as much as I enjoyed listening and facilitating. I just felt so grateful that she was here to share so much wisdom. There's so many, every like five minutes, I was like, that's a golden nugget, that's a golden nugget, that's a golden nugget. So please, share this out with your friends, lewishouse.com/452. If you thought there were so many golden nuggets as well. Again, leave us a review over on iTunes if you thought this was valuable for you in any way. And get the new book, The Five Second Rule. You guys gotta get on this. I'm telling you, it's a game changer.

• 1:04:25Lewis Howes?

  So make sure to tag me, @lewishouse, Mel Robbins, on Twitter and Instagram and Facebook. Let me know what you think. Would love to hear from you. I'm always wanting to connect with you. And I try to reply to as many messages on social media as possible. So make sure to give me a shout out, @lewishouse, and share this with your friends because it is a game changer. Again, I hope you enjoyed this. We do this every Monday, Wednesday, and Friday. We had Tony Robbins on previously. That was a huge episode. Coincidentally, Mel Robbins, same last name, not related. This is a big episode as well, and we have some massive interviews coming next week. My man JP Sears talks about how to be ultra spiritual. Then we've got Cesar Millan, the Dog Whisperer.

• 1:05:10Lewis Howes?

  Ooh, he's coming on to talk about all that he's doing to change the world. I am so pumped, guys. We've got him coming up. Then we've got ET, the hip hop preacher. We've got Jason Flom. Guys, it's gonna get bigger and bigger. Wyclef Jean, Jake Paul, Dave Asprey, so many big people coming on this show. You have no clue what's about to hit you. Get ready for greatness over the next eight weeks. Man, I am pumped. Make sure to subscribe if this is your first time here over at iTunes.com/greatness. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.