648: Ed Latimore - Going From Zero to One, Taking Ownership, Positive Body Language, Strategic Hardship, & Hard Earned Lessons From The Hurt Business

Go to www. LearningLeader.com https://www. LearningLeader.com for full show notes This is brought to you by Insight Global http://www.insightglobal.com/learningleader. If you need to hire 1 person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through Talent or Technical Services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. www. InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader https://www. InsightGlobal.com/LearningLeader My Guest: Ed Latimore is a professional heavyweight boxer, best-selling author, and veteran of the U. S. Army National Guard. He earned a degree in Physics from Duquesne University. Ed has gained recognition for overcoming personal struggles with addiction and poverty. We recorded this at our 2025 Learning Leader Growth Summit in Scottsdale, Arizona. He's the author of Hard Lessons From The Hurt Business. Notes: Key Learnings The Heaviest Weight at the Gym is the Front Door – Starting is often the hardest part. "Zero to one is the hardest part" in any endeavor. Once you begin, momentum builds, but that first step requires the most effort. How You Feel is Irrelevant – "How you feel about doing something is irrelevant. If it is vital to your success, you've gotta bump to the wall a bunch of times." Discipline isn't about motivation—it's about doing what's necessary regardless of feelings. Sobriety: The Hardest Fight – 13+ years sober, describing it as "the hardest fight I've ever had." The turning point came during basic training when he built an identity completely free of alcohol for the first time in his adult life. From Being Liked to Being Respected – "When people like you, they want to party with you... When people respect you, you start getting invited back to family events." Shifted focus from seeking approval through partying to earning respect through character. The Baby Shower Revelation – Breakthrough moment when friends showed up with gifts for his unborn child, "all because he is my human." Realized people genuinely cared about him, which became the foundation for believing he mattered. Taking Ownership vs. Playing Victim – "A judge and a jury do not care about my terrible upbringing if I commit a crime." Despite growing up next to a crack house with family addiction issues, I chose accountability over excuses. Net Positive Impact Philosophy – Goal with raising children: "Make sure they are a net positive, they make things better. At the very least, let's make sure they don't mess anything up." Everyone has an impact on the world for better or worse. Practice Until You Can't Forget – Boxing taught the overlearning principle: going beyond basic competency to automatic response. "We practice until we can't forget... Either you get it or you'll make a mistake, and you probably won't make the mistake more than twice." Tolerance for Boredom Builds Excellence – "If you can be bored, you can go really far because a lot of it is just repetition of really basic things." Elite performers master fundamentals through unglamorous repetition. Body Language Shapes Internal State – "You smile, you feel happy... puff up your chest and the testosterone flows." Physical presentation affects how you feel internally and influences others around you. Fear vs. Responsibility Evolution – Early motivation came from fear of embarrassment; current motivation comes from a sense of responsibility to others. Shift from avoiding personal failure to ensuring others are taken care of. Redefining "At Your Best" – Past definition: having enough money, time, and no worries. Current definition: "Everyone in the house is taken care of." Evolution from internal satisfaction to external impact. Strategic Hardship Introduction – For teaching children without trauma: "Introduce hardships strategically and with awareness." Like weight training—incremental challenges build strength; too much too soon causes injury. Useful Quotes: "How you feel about doing something is irrelevant. If it is vital to your success, you've gotta bump to the wall a bunch of times." "The heaviest weight at the gym is the front door." "When people like you, they want to party with you... When people respect you, you start getting invited back to family events." "You have an impact on the world, for better or worse, that makes a huge difference in allowing a person to not destroy themselves." "We practice until we can't forget." "If you can be bored, you can go really far." "I've had my ego dragged through the mud a lot." "What do you want your obituary to say? I didn't just dabble." "When you're completely selfless, then you're fearless. It's the 'what's gonna happen to me' that creates the fear." "Everyone's always either walking in love or fear." "I hope my kid remembers that I was a present happy dude." Life Lessons: Discipline Over Mood – Make decisions based on necessity, not feelings. Success comes from identifying what must be done and executing consistently. Identity Building Without Vices – Spend time in environments completely free from your struggles to build new neural pathways and self-concept. Overlearning for Mastery – Practice skills beyond basic competency until they become automatic responses under pressure. Authentic Accountability – Find mentors who "live what they're yelling at you about." Real influence comes from demonstrated behavior, not just words. Incremental Challenge Builds Resilience – Introduce difficulties gradually to build strength rather than overwhelming with too much too soon. Present Moment Parenting – Model calm behavior during stressful situations because children mirror your emotional energy. External Focus Creates Fulfillment – Shift from personal satisfaction to ensuring others are taken care of for a deeper sense of purpose. Childhood Dreams Reveal True Interests – "What did you want to do when you were 10-12?" Often reveals authentic passions before social conditioning. Breaking Generational Cycles – Consciously choose different patterns than your upbringing to create better outcomes for the next generation. Humility Through Struggle – Getting "ego dragged through the mud" builds character and perspective that success alone cannot provide. Luck Recognition Builds Gratitude – "The only difference between you and me is that I was lucky." Understanding the role of circumstances builds empathy. Apply to be part of my next Learning Leader Circle https://learningleader.com/leadership-circles/.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Ryan Hawk?

  This episode is brought to you by my friends at Insight Global. Insight Global is a staffing and professional services company dedicated to being the light to the world around them. If you need to hire one person, hire a team of people, or transform your business through talent or technical services, Insight Global's team of 30,000 people around the world have the hustle and grit to deliver. Hiring can be tough, but hiring the right person can be magic. Visit insightglobal.com/learningleader today to learn more. That's insightglobal.com/learningleader.

• 0:47Ryan Hawk?

  Welcome to the Learning Leader Show. I am your host, Ryan Hawke. Thank you so much for being here. Go to learningleader.com for show notes of this and all podcast episodes. Go to learningleader.com. Now on to tonight's featured leader. Ed Lattimore is a professional heavyweight boxer, bestselling author, and a veteran of the United States Army National Guard. He earned a degree in physics from Duquesne University. Ed has gained recognition for overcoming personal struggles with addiction and poverty. We recorded this at our 2025 Learning Leader Growth Summit in Scottsdale, Arizona. This was a private event for members of my Learning Leader Circle.

• 1:32Ryan Hawk?

  If you would like to be part of my next Learning Leader Circle, go to learningleaderscircle.com. Some of the topics we covered: how and why you should work to beef up your obituary. Love that term. Why you shouldn't just dabble. And the importance of building a disciplined routine. We talk about that and so much more. Ladies and gentlemen, please enjoy my conversation with Ed Latimore.

• 2:07Speaker 01

  You have lived and lived multiple lives, right? And this idea of a boxer, a physics guy, you're into chess, all this different stuff, and you've got whole other parts of your story that we're gonna get to. I'm just curious, if your younger self looked at your current self, what would surprise them the most?

• 2:26Speaker 02

  You know, not all of that, I just, I'm, I don't know, man, I'm fortunate. But I think the thing that would surprise my younger self the most is the stumbling blocks along the way, particularly the stuff around addiction and alcohol. Because, you know, I grew up, I grew up next to a crack house. My mom had her alcohol issues, everyone in my family had their substance abuse issues to different degrees, some got involved in the selling side of it, the using side of it, all there. So I had this like healthy fear of a lot of this stuff. So that's why I never tried anything harder.

• 3:09Speaker 02

  But the alcohol stuff, that really would surprise younger me because I know how I am thinking about it now and how I looked at it. And I went through that phase in my life, it was like, wow. But on a more positive note, I think the thing that would surprise younger me is how much fun I have being a dad. I didn't know that like that was a really fun thing, man. Because, because, you know, my dad wasn't really around, so I didn't really have any model for that or anything to expect from that. But boy, is it, I mean, it's exhausting. And there are these like fun moments of frustration, that's the best way to describe it, but it's a really good time. That's, those are the two big things that I think would surprise me,

• 3:54Speaker 02

  which, as I'm saying that, has nothing to do with any of that.

• 3:59Speaker 01

  You mentioned your sobriety, and we've talked before, and you said that it's the hardest fight you've ever had. What finally made it stick? What finally helped you get past that? I mean, or I assume it's still an everyday fight?

• 4:13Speaker 02

  Still, still a fight, 13 years, 14, I'm starting to lose track, and that's a good thing.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  That's good, yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 02

  What made it so difficult? You ever hear that quote from Anna Karenina by Leah Toystory? He's like, you know, all happy families are, you know, happy for the same reason. All unhappy families are unhappy for, you know, different reasons.

• 4:33Speaker 01

  Wait, yeah, I'm not smart enough. What is this quote again?

• 4:35Speaker 02

  Paraphrasing, it's the Anna Karenina quote. He goes, "All happy families are alike. All unhappy families are unhappy for their own reasons." Right?

• 4:46Speaker 02

  And I start with that to say that everyone has kind of their, their own issue or reason for having a substance problem.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  And you don't need to know that to kick it.

• 5:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:01Speaker 02

  You can figure that out later, which is what happened to me. I just knew things were getting rough, but, but as I look back really close and, and zeroing, the big thing that happened is as I started to believe people cared about me, I started to believe I mattered. I'll tell the story and then get back to the alcohol thing, but it's key. We had a baby shower for the, for kid and, and all these people showed up, all my friends and, well, mostly my friends, cause I don't, I'm not really close to my family. And I'm just sitting there like choked up, cause I'm, I've got this issue where I don't think, or I didn't think that like my friends were like, they didn't really like me, like I had to prove myself and that's what drives a lot of the things I do.

• 5:42Speaker 02

  I feel like I gotta prove myself for affection and, and respect and just people like me. But they showed up, they took their Sundays and brought gifts for this human that doesn't even exist yet all, because he's my human. So we'll pause there and I had to tell them, I was like, "Look, you know, you guys know I have this issue, or maybe you don't, but for me, uh, this means so much and I, it overwhelmed me." So, back to what helped me get sober.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  When I went away for basic training in June of 2013, came back after basic training AIT in December, went out, tried to party, had a horrible time.

• 6:25Speaker 02

  And sobriety day, December 23rd. I sat there, I made this list. As I'm making this list, I go, okay. I'm in school now, I'm in the army now, and there's the Uniform Code of Military Justice on top of civilian justice. I'm trying to make my pro career matter. And I just started this, this relationship that's still going on today, right? I don't want to lose any of this. And, and it hit me that the thing that made it stick, all of that together, though. I had spent that six months away building an identity that was completely free of alcohol. It was the first time I did it in my adult life. And I got to see all these people, respect me, look up to me, like me, and there was no alcohol involved. And I said, okay. I don't need to keep trying to be liked, I can actually be respected. And I think the two things look similar, but they're very different.

• 7:10Speaker 02

  When people like you, they want to party with you, they want to do things with you. But a lot of times, they will, uh, make you behave in a way that makes you less respectable. But when people respect you, uh, maybe you don't get all the invites to the parties, but you start getting invited back to family events. You know, because that's, when I talk about my family, I'm talking about my friends. And growing up in high school, and they invite me around, and a little less, a little less. And pretty soon, it's like, I see the pictures, things are happening, and I'm not there. But it got a lot easier to stick with it when I finally was, looked and I said, okay, people care if something happens to me. I care if something happens to me.

• 7:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:51Speaker 02

  And, uh, that self-love, I hate that word.

• 7:56Speaker 02

  But that's what it is, that self-love, uh, that makes a huge difference in allowing a person to basically not destroy themselves.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  We talked about ownership and not being a victim earlier today. And if there's anyone who could have chosen to be a victim, you're certainly one of those people who could have made that choice. And you and I have talked about the fact that. A judge and a jury does not care about my terrible upbringing if I commit a crime.

• 8:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 8:28Speaker 01

  I use that quote a lot, uh, since you originally said it to me. And I think that is the ultimate example of taking ownership of your life. Can you talk more about this? I mean, this is harsh, but the world doesn't care that you grew up next to a crack house with a mom who suffered from addiction and all these awful things. The world doesn't necessarily care if you're gonna go choose to harm other people's lives or commit crimes, you're going to jail, right? That's taking ownership when you could have easily chosen just to be a victim and follow in that path and commit crimes and do terrible things. And I'd love to hear you talk more about that.

• 9:07Speaker 02

  That accountability, it has to start with recognizing that you have an impact on, on the world for better or worse. Like, like I always say, you know, like, like her goal with raising our children is to make sure that they are a net positive. They make things better. But if they can't do that, at the very least, let's make sure they don't mess anything up. No one wants to give birth to a serial killer, right? That's a net negative. No one wants to give birth to a dope dealer. That's a net negative, okay? When you start looking at your place in the world and you, you realize that you are not in a vacuum, everything you do is gonna affect someone else for better or worse, then

• 9:50Speaker 02

  you have to take some responsibility. I don't know where I learned this, because I know I didn't learn it at home, growing up, but it's always stuck with me, this perspective that everything I do is gonna affect other people. And so, I started to...

• 10:12Speaker 02

  Even from a younger age, even, you know, stumbling around, I go, okay, I can't do that because it will affect someone else negatively. And that, look, that's a really great start. If you do just that, you're probably gonna avoid prison.

• 10:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:31Speaker 02

  And you take it a step further, you've remembered it, like, you got one body and you got one life and how people are looking at what you do. From afar, they're going to judge you. And they're not just gonna judge you, now we're getting back to that affecting the people, you know, they're going to see how other people interact with you as well. And, and what people decide to interact with you. You don't want people to cast you off or to distance themselves. You behave in a way that makes you a net positive to your surroundings. People like to be around you. At the very least, they don't feel like they gotta clutch their purse.

• 11:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. You talk a lot about discipline. You write about discipline and how discipline is kind of like the way out for you, has been the way out. How have you become a more disciplined person? What role did that play in helping you get to where you are today?

• 11:24Speaker 02

  Ah, the boxing thing, man, this is where it comes from, right?

• 11:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:28Speaker 02

  And, and I don't know if we talked about this before, but I tell people a lot. So first, we gotta go all the way back to high school. I, I was terrible at math, like bad. In fact, I technically, technically, uh, didn't graduate from high school, like on paper. I had no faith in my quantitative abilities and, you know, I was, I was smart enough to know then that like, ah, you know, you can't do anything that is worthwhile to go to school for, don't bother with it, okay? So I start the boxing thing and I was terrible when I first started boxing, like, like legitimately bad.

• 12:06Speaker 02

  There's an amateur fight. I was fighting this guy who was way more skilled and had been doing it for a long time. And I was, I had two left feet, no leverage, it was all arm punches. I swung a few times and I actually fell over and knocked myself down. They encountered this knockdown. And then I took the training seriously. Well, I was always taking the training seriously, but it really started to learn, really started to improve. And then I eventually beat that guy and I go on to, I want to stay tighter and then go on to the national Golden Gloves and then eventually get another, I didn't win that tournament, but another national tournament. And so all throughout my amateur career, I'm watching myself get better at something that I was really bad at.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  And the only reason I got better at it is I took accountability. I made the changes when I needed to make the changes. And it was a very disciplined approach. And I watched how that made me, like a change in my life. Well, I like, I'm sitting here with you right now, you know, because of what I was able to do when I fought. And then what I was able to do when I decided to go back to school. Because remember I was bad at math. I said, okay, if I did this with my body, let me do this with my mind. Okay, let's go right back to the basics, all the way back to where I didn't even learn how to do fractions correctly. Rebuild that foundation, do that.

• 13:30Speaker 02

  And I said, okay, well, I did this with my body. I did this with abstract skill math. Can I do this with my writing? Can I do this in every other area of my life? And, and each time, it's not like, no one says boxing is fun. It is kind of fun to beat a guy up, like, kind of. But that guy, it's not like, it's not like he's not trying to beat you up back and he's good at it too. And math is, you know, enjoyable, but it's not very enjoyable when you don't know what you're doing and you're like a fish out of water and these problems are hard and you, you've invested this money already, but you gotta figure it out. And all of this comes back around to the key idea here.

• 14:13Speaker 02

  The, how you feel about doing something is irrelevant if it is vital to your success. I live by that and it has.

• 14:23Speaker 02

  Change the trajectory of my life. I don't look at things like I do or don't want to do them. I go, is this or is this not necessary? And if the answer is yes, then it's gotta be done then. And if I'm, if I don't like it, okay, what am I gonna do? Complain?

• 14:40Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, there's something, something beautiful about the simplicity of that right there. James Clear was here a few years ago and I told you this, he quoted you. And it's, I've re-quoted that a thousand times, I feel like. I think it's about like how hard sometimes it is to do the first thing to get started. The quote is, "The heaviest weight at the gym is the front door." I love to hear what you were thinking when you came up with that, it's beautiful. And then what that means to you, that the heaviest weight at the gym is the front door.

• 15:14Speaker 02

  When I said that, that was back in the, um, the 180-character days of Twitter.

• 15:22Speaker 02

  And so what that did, you gotta train your short game, your long game, right? I started to think in Twitter.

• 15:30Speaker 01

  It's actually a useful skill.

• 15:32Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, like, like, you know, Twitter is what it is, right? But one of the things that, at least when there was that restriction, now they've removed it twice. First taken at the 240 and now you can extend your tweets and then. Well, what it's done is it's removed the need for economy of word choice.

• 15:51Speaker 01

  Compression of ideas.

• 15:52Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  It's something you're good at, James. Like, a lot of the best thinkers are able to compress these long thesis statements into bumper stickers.

• 16:01Speaker 02

  And to the, they get to the meat.

• 16:04Speaker 01

  Exactly. And I think that's a very useful skill.

• 16:07Speaker 02

  And, you know, the way they, they trained a lot of us coming up in school. This essay has gotta be a minimum. They're like, no, there should be a maximum, there should be a limit. And then you gotta get that idea in there clearly. So what I'm thinking about is like, okay, well, it's hard, you know, zero to one is the hardest part. Well, it's a cool way to say that. Well, there we go, okay? And just thinking about that, I just, I'm looking at Jimmy Sonny because Jimmy's been incredible helping me in my, my journey as a now, like, you know, not yet, but the release date's done, they, they sent me my checks as far as I know.

• 16:46Speaker 02

  The book's, the book's gonna come out. But Jimmy was really helpful, not just helping me get connected with people and, and, you know, talking to me about the marketing aspects of it. But, but one thing, I don't, I don't know if I've told Jimmy this, when I sat down to write the book, I didn't really know what I was writing, right? I knew that they paid me to write a book, and if I didn't write that book, they were gonna take that money back. That's what I knew. So I said, "All right, let's just start writing something." And that's what happened. I, I just started to write. Funny story about this, kind of a side note. The first book I wrote, or three books, the first book I wrote, uh, about forty-five thousand

• 17:28Speaker 02

  words, and, and, and I remember clearly, I said, "This isn't what they want. I don't think they want this kind of book." It was pretty much an autobiography, uh, with some key moments in my early life up to when I graduated from high school. So I started writing another book. The next book, that was a set of themes, or, you know, discipline, motivation, dealing with pain, forgiveness, those kind of things, taking different aspects of my life. And then it was time to submit the manuscript, and I looked, and I said, "I don't know what they really want here. These are two different books, and you know what I'll do? I'll combine them." And I did that, and I remember, my editors sending me these praises, like, "This is

• 18:12Speaker 02

  the greatest thing I've ever read." No, he didn't say that, but that's how I heard it, okay? And I messaged him, my agent, I'm like, "Yo, is Noah like this all the time, or is he just, you know, the, or is this true?" He goes, "No, I never heard him be so happy. This is great." And then crickets. He got to the second book.

• 18:32Speaker 02

  And I saw the feedback and I realized that I was like, oh wow. I wasn't supposed to write that second book, but it's a good thing I amended that first one because he's like, this is the direction you want to go. But if I had just been sitting there thinking about this the whole time, I wouldn't have anything. I'd have nothing. You gotta be willing to correct. I tell my wife all the time, she's involved in the travel industry and every now and then she'll get a client. And it'll be the weirdest problem. It'll, you know, ten years knowing this, it'll just be a new problem. And when you first start something, you run into these problems on an exponential curve. You just keep hitting them and eventually it goes linear. And then it turns logarithmic and you stop bumping into the wall so much. But once you bump into that wall, you know where the new problems are.

• 19:16Speaker 02

  But you gotta bump into the wall a bunch of times. A lot of people don't want to bump into that wall. This is where discipline comes in. You gotta go, okay, it's gonna hurt and it's gonna waste time. I'm gonna hate my life, but I will learn something and eventually what I create is gonna be, be really cool.

• 19:34Speaker 01

  Well, boxers, not a boxer, I've done it a little bit, but certainly nothing like this, have to live and die by routine. Like some, there's like wrestlers, boxers, like some of those routine regimented kind of work ethic type people, you gotta be in such impeccable shape. How have you taken this learning of routine and being regimented and getting after it every day to like everything outside of boxing?

• 20:02Speaker 02

  First, boxing is really boring. It's, it's boring and it's miserable. I don't know. My, my coach and I were talking about this last week. I've always believed this, he's always believed it, but this was the first time the idea was said out loud and we said, yes. That there's something wrong with every single person who decides to do this for real. There's gotta be. Most people run from fights. We try and get into them.

• 20:30Speaker 02

  But the way you do that is you just make it, you just practice until you can't forget. Like, I think that, I think in psychology, the term is overlearning. And they've, they've done some research on this. That like, if you were learning a new set of words and a new language and you, you memorize those words and then you go, I got them and you chill out. And the second person goes, I'm gonna learn those ten words and then I'm just gonna say them all the time, over and over and over and over again, until they don't sound like, you ever say a word so much it doesn't sound like a word anymore? You're like, is this real? Yeah. Okay, turns out that person in that overlearning situation, their attention is going to be far superior to yours. And that's what we gotta do in boxing. We practice until we can't forget, even if we wanted to.

• 21:14Speaker 02

  See guys walking around shadow boxing. And part of it's like obsessive and, but the other part is just rehearsal. And when you realize how well it works, because that's a great place to see how well something works. Either, either you got it, or you'll make a mistake. And you probably won't last to make the mistake more than twice. And in parenthood, that has been a godsend. Because it feels like Groundhog's Day, man. Like, every day, wake up, get a snack, change a diaper, go to the park. Nap time, wake up, go to the park, get a dinner. Bedtime, read a story, tuck 'em in, go to sleep, wake up. And then sort of, and then just, it's just the same thing.

• 21:59Speaker 02

  And every, and then I look up and I go, man, why you got to get so tall? Right? Like, what happened? Um, but I know that kind of monotony can really break a person. Yeah. You get a tolerance for boredom. And we're getting away from that because phones. Mm-hmm. There's always something novel to look at, right? I'm reading a book now, real book, pages. Uh, and I'm like, wow, this is crazy. There's no, no flash or notifications or anything to pop up. I remember this. It's like the nineties. It's a good time.

• 22:40Speaker 02

  But my point with saying that is that Routine works, systems work. It's the human that gets bored with them. And if you can be bored, you can go really far because a lot of it is just, even at the highest levels, from what I've seen with my own eyes in boxing, it's just the repetition of really basic things, like super basic. If you look at, I don't know if anyone here knows any of the guys in the sport. Some of these names are bigger or not, but Terrence Crawford, and now Ian Way, and Alexander Usik. You look at these guys' practice, and now all these guys on YouTube are trying to break these things down and show these crazy fancy things.

• 23:24Speaker 02

  But we look at them, people who know, all they do, their footwork is just perfect. And it's perfect, not fancy, but these basic things are perfect. And all they've done is just string together these different aspects of the sport that are boring and basic, and they do them so well that they'll fight unconscious, there's no time to think. So if you can get really comfortable with what it takes to attain that level of muscle memory, then you can do anything. Because that's the only way to get good at anything, is just do it a lot.

• 24:02Speaker 01

  It's like you're unconsciously conscious, like you just, you get to the point where it just is automatic.

• 24:09Speaker 02

  Right. And it's boring.

• 24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, you gotta be willing to do that. Peyton Manning was famous. He said, "When I don't love taking every rep in practice, I gotta stop. I gotta stop." Like, so he took every rep, every single rep in practice. And when that day comes, I gotta stop. So I'm gonna open up in a second, I'm gonna ask one more to give you guys time to think. So I want you to, you know, feel free, I know Ed is free for it.

• 24:31Speaker 02

  I didn't even look at you guys, sorry about that. I'm facing this way and...

• 24:36Speaker 01

  So, one of the things, my buddy Brooke Cups is back there, and we talk a lot about body language, right? And... Having positive body language and I think boxers have to have this man, right? You're not gonna walk in a ring with bad body language, you're gonna get killed, right? And from a leadership perspective, I don't think this is a small detail to be like, "Ah, yeah, I'll worry about that later." I think it's something to think about all the time. Can you talk me through whether it's intentional or not, thinking about your positive body language entering a ring, or going for a speaking gig, or any time really in your life, being a dad, but the importance of having positive body language?

• 25:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, I wish I could have remembered the research, but I know it exists, that idea that if you smile, you'll feel happy. You don't smile because you're happy, I mean, sometimes you do, right?

• 25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:27Speaker 02

  But you can also work that system in reverse. You smile, you feel happy, it's like you puff up your chest and the testosterone flows because you feel like you're stronger.

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  So if you can do that with your body, then you have to remember this. We make a big, I make a big deal, I hope you guys do too. So I'll say, "We, we make a big deal about how we talk to ourselves, right?" But what you're saying is accurate. A lot of people don't put that much energy and that much effort into how they present themselves physically. Not just in body language, but in grooming, but in style.

• 26:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:05Speaker 02

  Because that is the first way we gather information, we see it. And then you get the feedback, and if you get great feedback, you, it becomes this self fulfilling loop. You go, "Okay, these people must like how I look. I must be a cool person, let me act like a cool person." And then they go, "Oh, he's acting like a cool person, we shouldn't, he is cool." And then it bumps up. And that's how we take advantage of it. I think that's how we should take advantage of it. As far as like in boxing goes, right? It's weird, man, you got this posturing that's going on and guys are about to fight, there's no reason to posture. What we gotta do is this show, and it can make a difference. Mike Tyson talked about this all the time. He's got that great monologue where he's like,

• 26:50Speaker 02

  "I'm looking at the guy across from me and I'm looking in his eyes to see, I'm waiting for the moment he looks away, and that's when I know I got him." Guys are losing the fight before the fight even starts because they're scared. And they betrayed. Their own self and the other dies looking to wait to see what happens. So to take an apocalypse to every other part of life. And that fatherhood thing is really key too. I can't act scared. Because then they think something's wrong. And then I start acting like something's wrong because then I trigger the whole fear cascade. I have to remain calm in the face of a danger.

• 27:31Speaker 02

  I have to always look for solutions, even if a situation seems hopeless. Because the minute I accept that it's hopeless, I try. I'm not saying there's always going to be a solution, but I have to keep trying. And then remembering that I can't mope around the house because that's bringing me down. I gotta move around. You got a lot of yourself. That's pretty much what you gotta do. But it's a very useful law because your brain's dumb. As weird as that sounds, your brain is stupid. Doesn't really know what's going on. If you're walking around all proud and happy, knowing you got a big bill due and you don't know how you're gonna make it, your brain's gonna go, man, we must have figured this thing out. Why feel down?

• 28:15Speaker 02

  Because no matter how bad a situation is, if you let your internal state go to heck, that doesn't help you solve it. Reality's gonna be reality. You can't change reality, but you can change how you you interact with it, how you perceive it. And if you don't take that seriously, a reality will steamroll you in these bad situations that you could potentially have found a way out of. Or you take something that is just, this is the coolest thing with babies. Anybody with kids knows this. I learned it kind of the hard way, I guess. But like when he was learning how to walk, he falls. Now you get two responses to this. You can freak out and go, oh, is the baby gonna die?

• 29:01Speaker 02

  Or you just look at him and go, hey, was that fun? Our star, or sometimes start laughing. He's looking at you going, it must be funny. Let me laugh too. It's the same thing, like it's the same thing with people. And that's what leaders figure out is that when something's going wrong, if, if I start acting like it's going, everybody starts panicking. If I act like it's calm and cool. It's like that scene in the Titanic when they're sinking and they just keep playing the music. That's crazy, right?

• 29:31Speaker 02

  But look, if the maestro is like, we're gonna play some music. Those guys are like, I guess we're gonna play some music. Maybe this is not bad.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  So good. Let's open it up. Who's got a question for Ed? What do you think? Yeah, go ahead, Rob.

• 29:48Speaker 03

  Talking a lot about personal accountability. Who was some major influencers in your life? Mentors? And what did they do to impact your mindset?

• 30:00Speaker 02

  So, I didn't have a male that I looked up to until I was 28, 26. I just know the age range because the first person that I really looked up to, who really held me accountable was my coach, my professional coach when I switched. And he made it very clear. He never told me to stop drinking, but he made it very clear. He disapproved of it. He lived life very clean. He will lives, he still alive. He lives life very cleanly. One time he invites me over to his house for his father's birthday. And there's cake. And I know Tom doesn't think I should eat sweets when I'm trading, but there's cake and it's in his house.

• 30:43Speaker 02

  So I have a piece of cake and he loses it. And he's like, what's wrong with you? Like, you invited me, the cake is here. I was like, I didn't eat any, why'd you eat it?

• 30:53Speaker 02

  That type of accountability, that's the person who I look up to. The first role model that I really ever had. Because for whatever reason, when I'm looking at somebody in the media or the TV, that just feels like fiction to me. I know it might be manufactured. I can't really see how the sausage is made, so to speak. So I don't fall for it. I've never had an idol or role model that I can't see or touch. And I didn't have my father around or any positive people around growing up. So I didn't have anyone to look up there to. But when I got to that gym, which was different from where I was when I was an amateur. This was the first person that I said, this guy's living what he's yelling at me about. It'd be one thing if he was, you know, throwing them back and eating cake himself. And then, no, he lives it.

• 31:38Speaker 02

  And so I said, I want to be like this person. So good. Matt?

• 31:43Speaker 04

  You mentioned the sheer boredom. If you have a day and you are completely bored with the process, what gets you through that day? You remember that?

• 31:54Speaker 02

  I want to give you a magic answer, I really do.

• 32:00Speaker 02

  I'll do the next best thing. I'll tell you what scared me. What scared me is being embarrassed. And that's what I used as being afraid. I said, okay, if I lose this fight, we'll just talk about boxing and go bigger. If I lose this fight because I was not prepared, it'll be my fault because I decided that today is the day I'm going to take a day off. And I don't want to be embarrassed, so let me get in there and get in the gym. And then, once you get in there, you know, after about the first 10 minutes, you're in. It's that zero to one is the problem. On a much greater scale, I'm not so fear driven anymore. Now it is this sense of responsibility. And that sense develops, well, from having responsibilities for start.

• 32:44Speaker 02

  But how does one get responsibility? That process that leads up to it, all of those boring reps, boring reps. And I hope this doesn't sound too circular, but that's what is a hard, kind of a hard question. There's no, there's no one thing that gets me through.

• 33:07Speaker 02

  It's just, I look at it and I see it's what has to be done and I want, I want the outcome, but I also don't want what happens if I don't succeed. So all of these things come together and it's just in the back of my head. You gotta do this, you gotta do this, you gotta do this. And eventually it gets done, or it doesn't and I'm very confused.

• 33:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, Alyssa?

• 33:31Speaker 05

  The theme of our summit is at your best. So what is at your best like and how has that changed over time?

• 33:38Speaker 02

  So at my best for me for a very long time just meant, you know, little things like I don't have to know what day of the week it is. Or I can just go to the grocery store, go on a trip or whatever. I gotta have my time, I have enough money to enjoy my time. It's a good day and there's no worries. That's what at my best meant for a very long time. Probably at the very least over the last five to seven years minus two and a half. So like the better part of the decade. Now though, very much so, what at my best means is that everyone else, everyone in the house is taken care of. And if I have to lose a little sleep to make that happen or miss out on something,

• 34:23Speaker 02

  that's what at my best means now. It is very external. It is about the people around me. If everyone else is doing well, then I know that I've done the best I could. I think what would bug me is if someone is disturbed for some reason and it was because of something I didn't do that I should have done, you know? So yeah, that's where the big shift has come. It's that it's no longer about how I assess my own time and my own satisfaction. Now it's about the people around me. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, Mark.

• 35:06Speaker 04

  Why are you so humble? You're so accomplished, but yet you've talked about your sobriety and your thought.

• 35:11Speaker 02

  Uh, nah, man, because I've had my ego dragged through the mud a lot. Few things will humble you, like looking like an ass. I just can't, I mean, I'm just trying to think off the top of my head. Really big humbling event was getting knocked out on TV. That'll do it.

• 35:33Speaker 02

  Because you go and tell all these people to watch you and and then you you can let yourself get kind of obnoxious about it too and then like that it's over and it's not the way it you wanted to go. And you gotta remember that that can suck. Being broke after having money and being broke, you know, the up and down and seeing how quickly life can change.

• 35:59Speaker 02

  Remembering, this is, I think when people say this a lot of times, what I'm about to say, I think what they're trying to do is kind of bring you down in a negative way. But remembering where I I came from. And interacting with many of those people still. I know that I know there's no guarantee, right? Just because it's going well now doesn't mean it's not, it's always gonna go well and I I I never forget that I I just always feel like I'm one step away from anything putting me into a really bad position. One of the reasons I stopped drinking, for example, you you know about the law of large numbers, right? You know, there's a there's a chance

• 36:41Speaker 02

  a thing will happen and the more trials you have, the closer the outcomes look like the theoretical outcome. So like you flip a coin. You flip it 10 times, you get ahead seven times, assuming, you know, you're not dealing with some shady characters, that coin is not rigged. But you flip it 50 times, it's more like 26 and 24 and then overall you get closer and closer to that one half. So crazy stat, most people who drive under the influence don't get pulled over. It's it's terrible. It's like one in 2800. And and unfortunately, you know, I I driven under the influence when I was drinking and I get lucky, get lucky

• 37:25Speaker 02

  four, five, six, who knows? A lot of times. And it's like, well, how many times can we outrun the law of large numbers? And so I stopped and I tell that story to set up this part where I worked with a guy. Clearly the guy had a problem, but I worked with a guy when I was working at Starbucks. He had five DUIs. I'm like, man, the only difference between you and me, though, is that I was lucky. You are lucky. When you remember it, all it takes is uh some people ain't even bad, just wrong place, wrong time, and you gotta, you gotta remember that you're not that different. You may have made some different choices and accountability, and that's great, but it

• 38:06Speaker 02

  doesn't elevate your value relative to other people kind of intrinsically. You know, there's like that human value thing, and there's like, oh, how much money do you make? Two different things, but remembering the first one, that is key. I think more people need to remember that the only reason, you know, lucky, where were you born? Who were your parents? All this stuff comes together, and it keeps a perspective that allows me to remember I'm not anyone special, pretty much. Yeah, go ahead, Mike.

• 38:39Speaker 06

  One of the things you talk about often is the concept of sustained excellence, and I think one of the traits for that is being fearless, like just seeing all the competitions you've done and being in the military is, as you continue to grow, or how do you remain fearless as you continue through your life?

• 38:53Speaker 02

  Funny answer here, I think. I know I'm gonna die. I mean, we're all gonna die, right? Some people are in denial of that, some aren't, but one day I'm gonna die, and on top of that, this probably is gonna take a hundred years, maybe a hundred fifty, unless I do something really good or really bad, no one's gonna ever remember me. So that means I gotta make the most of my time here and not waste it, and I value that time. So, I have to try at least to do the things that I wanna do, and to do them to a high enough level to where I'm like, okay, I didn't just dabble here. I picked up a new skill, I met some new people.

• 39:34Speaker 02

  There's the most interesting man in the world, he used to say, I beefed up my obituary. Like, that kinda thing. So, so just remembering my mortality is a really powerful driver. It's also why I, I'm just...

• 39:51Speaker 02

  Procrastination is like just an awful habit in general. And the distractions of are all around there so like if you really just wanted to do nothing, you could just sit, never get out of bed and on your computer between the Netflix and the Hulu and the social media. There's all this stuff that'll just take, take, take, take, take. How are you gonna give? Change from a consumer mindset to a producer mindset. And remember, you only got a finite amount of time to produce. That right there, you'll never want for any challenge in the world.

• 40:33Speaker 02

  Ever again, if you think that way, that you've only got a little bit of time and most people are just gonna be consuming and you can figure out a way to produce.

• 40:44Speaker 07

  Yeah, so Ed, this is kind of a follow on to what you're saying just now. We look at the, you know, the list of things that you've done at the beginning of time there. Boxing, physics, now writing, and you're talking about only having a finite amount of time, right? How do you go about making the decision of what the next thing's gonna be? You say the hardest thing is to start, decide what am I gonna start next?

• 41:10Speaker 02

  Man, I wish when I was a kid that I had like got a chance to do stuff because I feel like I'm just playing catch up now and that's why I keep doing so many other things. As far as figuring out what I'll take on next, there's the path that is grooved out and it kind of makes the most sense based on your previous set of skills and then there's this, this path and it's a jungle and you gotta decide, do you really want to go through the jungle? For example, here is a jungle that I'm pretty sure I'm going to not, I'm just gonna stop because I keep running the wall. Really wanted to learn Russian for a while. Like it was really fascinating to me. Got a guy in the gym who speaks Russian, it'd be easy. But Russian is just difficult.

• 41:56Speaker 02

  And it's difficult without the payoff. The Spanish that I know I can use, that I've used it here in Phoenix, and this is in America. Never gonna use that. But the fiction, that's why I'm carrying this notebook around, by the way, not to take notes while writing, but I was sitting up there before they came and got me, I was just taking notes on the next scene. That makes sense. I wanted to do fiction. I've always wanted to write fiction. I'd stumbled into this non-fiction world, which is cool, but fiction is interesting to me, and that's what I've always wanted to do. So that's why I do not. And here's like kind of a cool test to try. If you're trying to think about the next thing, think about what you wanted to do when you were like 10, 12, you know, right when you had like agency but no real responsibilities,

• 42:40Speaker 02

  what did you do for fun? I wrote stories. I used to, back before computers and the before times, I used to steal rungs of paper. And those, those bonders that were like, it was like this weird kind of fake plastic that you opened up and had the metal, and I didn't write. Don't think they were any good, but I wanted to try it, and we'll see how we can, how we do now. But that is, that's kind of the path to go. You, you look at what you find interesting. Then you decide, how difficult is it? Is it worth trying out? Are you gonna get something from it? And then if it checks those boxes, do it. If it only checks that interest box, but that, that difficulty box isn't worth it,

• 43:25Speaker 02

  you let that go, and if it doesn't hit either one, you move on and you'll find it. There's just so much, so much in the world to figure out and do and have fun with.

• 43:36Speaker 04

  So you talk about the, the small, little boring things, and you reference it to the box. And what are the small boring things you do in your process now to maintain sobriety?

• 43:48Speaker 02

  So, so what the sobriety thing?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  I kinda cheated in the first year and a half because I was super busy. I didn't have time to go anywhere. And when I finally went out, fifteen months in, it was to watch John Jones and the Daniel Cormier fight, the first one, anybody who's fans MMA. And there was alcohol on the table and I was like, I just don't want that. Like, it was a weird thought process. I was like, weird, man, it's here, but not interested. So, I can answer this question, how I approached it initially, but now it's part of me. I've got my sobriety day tattooed on my arm, little hashtags for each year.

• 44:34Speaker 02

  When I first started, I knew that I had to make sobriety a habit the same way I made drinking a habit. In retrospect, I kind of did that automatically by just not drinking. But there's more to it. I learned how, at first, small steps, and then on and on, how to actually talk to people and interact with people without alcohol being the pretense. You know, like, let's get some drinks. A lot of people, one happy hour away, one missed happy hour away from being lonely, and I didn't want to be that guy. I didn't want to be boring out there when I was not drinking.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  So, I spent a lot of time consciously trying to meet people during the day. Coffee shops, learning to talk, learning to connect, really have a conversation for no other reason than I'm not trying to drink. I won't say I liked them, because some of them I don't talk to anymore. But, it really helped. And so, to bring all this together, now that I have like a clear answer. And I don't know how much stock you put into like the Myers-Briggs thing. I'm an ENTJ. One of those things they say about ENTJs, probably ENTJs in the room, is that like, we think out loud, and then as we're talking, the idea becomes crystal clear.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  So, it's become crystal clear to me, and it drives my wife crazy, because he's the opposite. Is I identified some other positive habit. When you remove something, you gotta fill it with something. And so I found a really small, easy one and just stuck with that, stuck with that, stuck with that. And then when that became no issue, you stick with something else. Now, like, I mean, I was never like, I don't wanna step foot in the bar, but I also have no reason to be there at this point in my life. But I can go into a bar, there can't be alcohol around, it's no big deal. Because I started with this small thing of just talking, trying to talk, which is like, people hate that small talk thing. I love small talk, it's a good time.

• 46:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, go ahead. I've seen many of the boxing matches. This may be a stupid question, but I'll just ask. When boxers come in, we spoke about they they display a lot of body language and all of that. But in the majority of the bouts, you see when boxers walk in, they have a cape down and they're not looking at anybody. Both the boxers are not actually looking at anybody. Is it the show for the audience? Or is there body language? Is there a language which is communicating between the two boxer?

• 47:16Speaker 02

  So like, there's two things going on at the same time and you gotta like, fight them. On the one hand, you don't want to think about anything else but this fight coming up. Some guys come out, they really relax or whatever, and sometimes they're like, dapping people up. But for the most part, you're trying to like, stay locked in and not be distracted. And then there's the other part, where you're like, really don't wanna think about this going badly. And there's a possibility it could go badly. So you don't wanna think about that either. So you've got this thing you don't wanna think about, but you gotta think about, and you don't wanna focus on anyone else.

• 47:58Speaker 02

  But that's the only, like, it's just a cacophony in this. You can't make out anything individually, you just see everything. What's trying to happen here is you're really just trying to create this space. And in this space, nothing else matters. Because boxing is really weird. If anyone's ever boxed, you'll know what I'm talking about, what I say. But if you haven't, try to imagine this.

• 48:24Speaker 02

  No one is doing anything else but looking just at you. That's it. You are almost naked. And there's a chance you're gonna get embarrassed, right? All of this is going on. It's like, I wrote about this once, just to myself, and I was gonna use it somewhere. But like, there are like five fundamental fears. I don't think I'll get them all. It's like self-mutilation. Not self, it's like mutilation, restraint, invasion, like something gets in you, loss of autonomy, some, I'm almost there.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  But boxing brings up like every fear, all the ones. And not the match itself, but like as you're leading up to it, the anticipation of this thing. That you can't run away, something, you're restrained. I mean, like, that's the part that, just even now when I think about it, just they put you in these gloves. And they gotta put the gloves on before the fight goes. That's obvious. What you don't know, what a lot of people don't know, is that once they, the official comes, checks, make sure there's a good tape, you're in. Like, you can't take that tape off. If you gotta go to the bathroom, hmm, right? That's it.

• 49:44Speaker 02

  Funny story, a guy trained with it, he had to go to the bathroom once the gloves on, so you know, the coach had to help him out.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  So you got all these things going on, and you don't wanna give into that fear. You don't even wanna give it energy. But it's loud, it's loud, and you can't ignore it. So the best thing you're trying to do is just turn everything into a blur. It's like, look over here, I know all these people, I'm gonna stare at this spot on the wall. Kind of deal with it and block it out. Maybe it helps. Some guys, it doesn't. But you see, you know, when guys zone in, all it takes, when we get in there, a lot of guys have said this, I agree with it too, you wanna get hit. Not so hard that the fight's over, but just enough to know, okay, I'm in a fight, this is not paper, I'm not gonna crumble, let's go. And now that brings you

• 50:35Speaker 02

  real front and center. But up until that point, all you've got, you got this long, it's like they draw it out. I'm watching a fight, and I hate how long the opening stuff is drawn out. So I know what it's like, and I know what it's like in there too. It's like, why? Can we just start the fight?

• 50:53Speaker 01

  Oh yeah, go ahead, Mirta.

• 50:54Speaker 08

  You briefly touched on it, that you grew up next to a crack house. Substance abuse issues. You are the person you are today, and you've learned the lessons that, you know, from that upbringing, partially. And it's made you into this super-centered person that you are today. You mentioned you have children. How do you find the balance of like, trying to teach your children the same valuable lessons that you've learned from all those horrible experiences? While obviously, they live a very different life than what you did. How do you teach them those things, in a much more safe and secure upbringing?

• 51:36Speaker 02

  So, are you familiar with survivor's bias? The idea is like, okay, you know, we look at the people who succeed as an example of the process and everything that led up to it being successful. So in this context, one might look at me and go, "Well, you know what you need to do? You need to move out of the suburbs and drop yourself right down next to a crack house and get yourself a pet crackhead while you're at it." Okay?

• 52:07Speaker 02

  What a lot of people forget, most people who grew up in my environment, they are not anything close. Now, I know guys, when I was doing research for my book, I just wanted to look stuff up. Now, I started going down memory lane, looking up some names, and I seen a bunch of guys in prison, for different things. So, my challenge is not so much, because the research, even if the research wasn't clear on this, I've seen it with my own eyes, but the research is clear on this too. The research is very clear. "That environment messed you up pretty bad, and I'm gonna have to deal with a lot of things, too." My challenge is not how to teach him the lessons from that life.

• 52:50Speaker 02

  I don't want him to know anything about that, because love is a lot better. The challenge for me is, how do I get him to know that exists? And to know what those people are like, and to develop a sympathy and an empathy for them, without...

• 53:11Speaker 02

  Him getting too close to it, you know? I want him to know the stove is hot, but I don't want him to touch it. Problem is, as a good friend of mine said, when you, when you play in the mud with white gloves, the mud never gets gloveier.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  So I've thought about this, I've talked to my wife about it. Probably gonna take him to the boxing gym. You know why? The boxing gym is great because it's this weird microcosm where the drug dealers and the cops are training and nobody is on, because nobody comes in trying to bring the business. It's like, uh, it's like in John Wick at the Continental, that's what it's like. We don't conduct business here, right? And you get to see that. Now, boxing is great for this because it's this hard, painful thing and, but it's, but it's conducted with respect because it has to be. Otherwise, it devolves into a street fight and then those don't have rules, those don't have dignity, those don't have respect.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  So what I'm doing with what my son is, introducing him to boxing.

• 54:17Speaker 02

  If he wants to compete, I'm not going to encourage or discourage, but I will probably have an argument.

• 54:28Speaker 02

  And, and, and see what happens. But I guess to the crux of this is, is, uh, introduce hardship strategically and with awareness because the analogy I use, if I give you a weight that's like 2X times your max, you're not gonna be able to move that weight. Nothing will happen. No matter how hard you push, it's not gonna go anywhere. Not only that, but you might hurt yourself trying to move it. But if I step it up incrementally, okay. You're gonna get stronger, you're gonna be able to eventually deal with the other stuff. I, I think a lot of things we call trauma are a lot like that. That people get, get hurt really early and really intensely and they can't recover from it.

• 55:13Speaker 02

  Not that these things are, are, are ever good, but it's a lot different if I pick a guy out of the crowd and go smack him up a few times and call him names. He's gonna be mad at me. He won't recover. If I do that to a five-year-old a few times, they'll be like, what the heck happened? And now they're, they're like, they're too young to grasp and I don't want him ever have to deal with that. So all that together, put a bow on it is. I'm introducing you harsh strategically and with love as opposed to I'm just gonna throw you to the wolves and hope you come back with a cape.

• 55:46Speaker 01

  The clothes, man. Talk about beefing up your obituary. It's a great, it's a great one. What do you want your obituary to say?

• 55:54Speaker 02

  Aw, man. You know what? I, I just hope that on my way out, cause when I'm gone, I'm gone. I hope on my way out, I hope my kid remembers that I was like a present, happy dude. Because like I don't have no real memories of my dad. Like I, I have trouble remembering what he looks like, right? And my mom don't really have pleasant memories.

• 56:20Speaker 02

  My wife, when I met her dad, already passed. I have figured out over the years that her and her mom and her sister, they don't have a good relationship with their mom. So like, for all intents and purposes, he's got no grandparents. As I get older, I don't want that. I want, I want, okay, hey, I kinda, I don't mind my parents. I ain't gotta like us, but you know, I don't, I don't want to come up with excuses why. I don't want to talk on the phone kind of deal. But as far as when I die, man, uh, you know, it'll be cool. No one's gonna read it. No one's gonna know. I mean, maybe I'll invent something cool or do something really, really cool, but not really worry. When, when I'm, when I'm gone, I'm gone and it's gonna take a generation or two before it won't matter. I, I know that's not a cool answer, man.

• 57:05Speaker 01

  It's real.

• 57:06Speaker 02

  But, but like, I think a lot about that. Like, I'm, I'm 40, right? I'm some, about halfway done here. Hopefully not halfway done. I think I'm gonna live to 120, but that's just me.

• 57:18Speaker 01

  You're a third.

• 57:20Speaker 02

  But, uh, but, but I think about the time I got left, but, but once it's up, it's up. I guess I'd like to write a bestselling fiction book.

• 57:29Speaker 01

  Ooh.

• 57:30Speaker 02

  There you go. And, and yeah, maybe one day I'll get, get back around to Russian, but it is just a miserable.

• 57:37Speaker 02

  It's hard. It's hard. My high school was unique. I got to take Japanese and I took it for for four years and then when my first try at college before I failed out, I took it for for another year or so. And I was really like, like I was that dude, man. What do they call them? Otakus. I loved the Japanese culture. I thought it was really cool. And then it hit me one day. This is a very difficult language and only one country speaks it and a lot of them speak English. And on top of that, that's a long flight. I probably

• 58:10Speaker 02

  go. So I lost all interest in Japanese. Russian is a little like that, except except now I don't want to get thrown in for just being an American. I don't, I don't know if that is what will happen. I know some fighters that have gone over there had no problems whatsoever. I just hope, man, people remember that I tried to help.

• 58:28Speaker 01

  Well, the book that everybody here is going to get is called Hard Lessons From The Hurt Business. And I know Howard, you worked on it. And I'm just really grateful that you decided to come here. By the way, Ed is also going to stay with us, come to dinner. He'll be with us tomorrow. So he's going to be a regular attendee. He wanted to be attendee the whole time. And I said, let's, let's make it like a little bit of a surprise. And so I

• 58:49Speaker 02

  I want to tell you guys a story. This is cool. So first he invites me and I said, great. And then I'm like, man, this is really cool. You invited me. Do you want me to do a presentation? He goes, yeah. So I'm putting together the presentation. I get an email. Hey, hey, I got this idea. I got this idea. We had James Clear do this thing last year. You want to come and do that? I said, do I ever? Because this is a lot easier than creating.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  No, it worked out, dude.

• 59:17Speaker 02

  It, it, it did work out.

• 59:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But he'll be with us the whole time. You're all going to get his book. I'd like you to like order it on Amazon. In addition to getting it for me, that stuff matters. It should be a bestseller. I know it's not like, I mean, it kind of matters, I guess. I want to support Ed and his work for all that he gives to us and gives to so many people, like super inspiring dude, like just amazingly inspiring to me and to so many, man. So

• 59:42Speaker 02

  You inspire me, man.

• 59:43Speaker 01

  Yeah, I appreciate it. Give it up for Ed Latimore.

• 59:51Ryan Hawk?

  It is the end of the Podcast Club. Thank you for being a member of the end of the Podcast Club. If you are, send me a note, [email protected]. Let me know what you learned from this great conversation with Ed Latimore. A few takeaways from my notes. How you feel about doing something is irrelevant if it is vital to your success. You might have to bump into a wall a bunch of times. A lot of people don't want to do that. If you're willing to do the hard things, you'll be a better person for it. That is the difference between great and good. And then the heaviest way to the gym is the front door. You gotta get started. Lace up the shoes. Once you get moving, the momentum will carry you a bit, but you gotta get started.

• 1:00:35Ryan Hawk?

  Start the thing. Whatever it is that you're hesitating to do, just get started. Start before you are ready and figure it out as you go. And then, what do you want your obituary to say? He said, "I didn't just dabble here." I love it. I think the biggest difference between people who leave a positive dent in the world and those who don't is the willingness to fully commit everything you have to something, to put your whole heart and soul into it. And I went to, or once said that people respond well to those that are sure of what they want. What people hate most is indecision. So, don't just dabble with things. Make a decision and

• 1:01:17Ryan Hawk?

  commit everything you have to it. Once again, I would say thank you so much for continuing to spread the message and telling a friend or two, "Hey, you should listen to this episode of the Learning Leader Show with Ed Latimore." I think he'll help you become a more effective leader because you continue to do that. And you also go to Spotify and Apple Podcasts, you subscribe to the show, you rate it, hopefully five stars, and you leave a thoughtful review by doing all of that. You are continually giving me the opportunity to do what I love on a daily basis. And for that, I will forever be grateful. Thank you so, so much. Doug, as you can't wait.