KHC 130 - Shelby Houlihan

Shelby Houlihan, an American middle distance runner, Olympian, and World Record holder in the 4x1500m relay. Shelby competed in the 5000m final at the 2016 Summer Olympics in Rio, finishing 11th. She is a 12-time US National Champion winning seven indoor and five outdoor titles in middle-distance events. Join us for a conversation about Shelby’s experience in the Olympics, how she got started in running, and more! Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Follow Shelby: https://www.instagram.com/shelbo800/ Thank you to our sponsors: LMNT: Visit https://drinklmnt.com/cam for a free sample pack with any purchase Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off MUD\WTR: https://mudwtr.com/cam use code CAM for 15% off Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off and Free Shipping Timestamps: 00:00:00 Discovering a Love for Running at a Young Age 00:05:36 Shelby’s Parents 00:07:09 Arizona State College 00:11:47 Shelby’s Inspirations in Running 00:15:15 Showing Up & Putting in the Work 00:21:36 Shelby’s Training & Nutrition Regimine 00:24:34 Ad Break (LMNT & MUD/WTR) 00:26:58 World Record Beer Mile 00:28:53 Support From Other Runners 00:33:57 Supershoes in the Olympics 00:36:02 Training With & Without a Coach 00:40:23 Riding the Comeback Story 00:45:13 Shelby’s Goals with Running 00:47:07 What Shelby’s Loves the Most About Running 00:49:39 Shelby’s Favorite Coaches 00:52:41 Running Worlds in September 00:55:59 QA: F#$k, Marry, Kill: 1500, 5K, 10K? 00:58:17 QA: Categorizing Before & After the Ban? 01:00:52 QA: What Does Shelby Think About When Things Get Hard? 01:02:16 QA: Who Inspires You in Owning Their Own Story? 01:04:19 New Bow, Knife & Shoes: Recap of the Day 01:08:22 QA: During the Ban Did You Think You’d Quit Running? 01:10:32 QA: Who is Shelby? 01:12:31 Outro

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is the Keep Hammer Collective with Shelby Houlihan. How are you?

• 0:19Speaker 01

  I'm great. Just got a tattoo, so.

• 0:21Cameron Hanes?

  I know. I feel like in, so I hadn't met you before yesterday. I feel like we're basically best friends.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, we have matching tattoos now, so.

• 0:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 0:32Speaker 01

  We've sealed the deal.

• 0:33Cameron Hanes?

  Checked it. Come on, guys. So yeah, what a, what a amazing couple of days. Uh, I'm so pumped you're here. And we did all the cool stuff. It's like so amazing.

• 0:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, I've been having so much fun and I appreciate you having me out. It's been awesome and yeah, it's been a lot of fun. A fun two days.

• 0:54Cameron Hanes?

  Well, for, for those that don't know, I'll just go through real quick. So Shelby, what do they call you? An American distance or American middle distance runner?

• 1:03Speaker 01

  Middle distance, distance.

• 1:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I kind of do both.

• 1:06Cameron Hanes?

  So I didn't, I haven't even been up on all the stats, but now I'm getting pretty good. So 2016 Rio Olympian, right?

• 1:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:16Cameron Hanes?

  You were young, 23, 4?

• 1:18Speaker 01

  Twenty, 23?

• 1:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Um, American record holder still in, what was that? The 1500, which is fast, 355, you said, or 4?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  354 and I think it's like 99.

• 1:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, just dipped under.

• 1:35Cameron Hanes?

  But that is in the 354s. So that's smoking fast. And the, the previous American record holder in the, what, 5K? Yeah. And what time was that?

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Uh, 1423.

• 1:48Cameron Hanes?

  Man, flying. So you're like just a legendary runner. How, how does that happen? I mean, when did you know you were good at running?

• 2:00Speaker 01

  What a great question. I mean, I started running when I was five and I feel like I just internally felt like I was going to be good at this and I enjoyed it. And I saw my mom, like she was a professional runner. So I just watched her do it. I grew up around the sport and you know, between people telling me like, oh, you're good at this and like just me feeling like I like am. Uh, I don't know. I don't know if there was like a certain moment. It just kind of always felt like this is what I should be doing, you know?

• 2:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. You were like, so when they do the gym, everybody runs a mile. What? You're probably lapping people?

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Yeah. They call me like the Energizer Bunny. So I was just like, I wouldn't stop. I would just keep going. Yeah.

• 2:44Cameron Hanes?

  I bet. Yeah. And then when did you start competing in track?

• 2:49Speaker 01

  In seventh grade. So I, yeah, when I started running, I was five years old. We, I did like one mile cross country races. So like just the little, the little stuff. And then in seventh grade, I actually went out for track. I should have probably gone out in sixth grade, but I was too shy. So I like finally worked up the courage in seventh grade and went out for track then. Yeah.

• 3:09Cameron Hanes?

  And then what do you, what events did you do then?

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Kind of everything. I did like the hundred, two hundred, four hundred. Um, but I was mostly focusing on the eight hundred.

• 3:22Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha. And this was Iowa. Right. So like, how big of school? Did you go to a big school, small school?

• 3:28Speaker 01

  In Iowa, it was a big school. Yeah. It was like the four A, like that was like the biggest, um, division.

• 3:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:35Speaker 01

  So yeah, I mean, I think there was about around like three hundred or so people in my graduating class.

• 3:41Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 3:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:43Cameron Hanes?

  That's a pretty good size. Yeah. It's a, yeah, because you never know with those certain stays. I mean, like here, I had 24 in my graduating class. So very small, but.

• 3:53Speaker 01

  Very different.

• 3:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So that's a pretty good size. So you probably had good competition to run against. Is that right?

• 3:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. Iowa was, Iowa was like stacked when I was in school. Um, I didn't really win too much uh, at a state level until my senior year. Cause like. Everyone was just like, good. Um, and finally, once they all graduated, then I started winning. Winning some of my senior year, but I think that was good because then it like also taught me how to lose and just like keep working hard and like, at some point I'm going to get there.

• 4:24Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 4:25Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, no, it's, yeah, we had a lot of really good, especially eight hundred meter runners in Iowa at the time.

• 4:34Cameron Hanes?

  And then, so your senior year, I am assuming you made state probably in years before your senior year.

• 4:41Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. I think every year, yeah.

• 4:42Cameron Hanes?

  Every year?

• 4:43Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 4:43Cameron Hanes?

  And then, did you win your senior year?

• 4:46Speaker 01

  Yes. Yep. I'm trying to remember if I won before that or not.

• 4:51Cameron Hanes?

  But you for sure won the eight hun- so are you saying eight hundred at state?

• 4:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, I did kind of everything. I, my senior year, I did the four hundred. I was the state champ in the four hundred as well.

• 4:58Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  Eight hundred. Um, yeah, I think, I'm, I get, we have Drake relays and state and they kind of like meshed together. Cause it's at the same stadium.

• 5:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 5:09Speaker 01

  Um, but yeah, no, I mostly, I did the fifteen hundred as well. I also did the, the three K. Uh, it was just kind of in everything. Yeah.

• 5:16Cameron Hanes?

  Did you guys, how'd your team do?

• 5:19Speaker 01

  We were, we were a good team, like.

• 5:20Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, you scored a lot of points.

• 5:22Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, we, we had some good sprinters and stuff. I think, yeah, it was, it was, we had a good four by four team, uh, four by eight team, sprinting team. So we were, we were one of the, one of the better schools.

• 5:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And, and you said, and I didn't realize this either, your mom was a professional runner. I didn't know that at all. You said a marathoner, so she was always, but your dad wasn't?

• 5:45Speaker 01

  No.

• 5:46Cameron Hanes?

  What, what was his role, just being supportive?

• 5:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, they met running, like at the time, I think he was training for a marathon, but she was the professional marathoner.

• 5:55Cameron Hanes?

  Winning marathons?

• 5:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. And yeah, so I just kind of grew up around the sport and my older sister also is a professional runner. She ran the steeplechase. And is now a coach.

• 6:06Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 6:06Speaker 01

  So, yeah, and my uncles ran, like, they do timing for me and stuff, so it was, I just grew, really grew up around the sport. Seeing it and watching my mom run every day for hour, two hours a day. It's just like, I could count on one hand, probably the amount of times that I've seen my mom take a day off.

• 6:25Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 6:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:26Cameron Hanes?

  So she's, she's a grinder.

• 6:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's a grinder. She's dedicated.

• 6:30Cameron Hanes?

  Put the hammer down.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 6:35Cameron Hanes?

  I love it because I have to keep hammering, which people know you have your family says, you know, put the hammer down, whatever. When going gets tough, we got to win a race. So we got the hammers. It's awesome.

• 6:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 6:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I love your story. It's a, yeah, it's just like, you know, it's all you've ever done really is run. And it's got you a lot of success. It's a, you know, obviously with, with life, there's always ups and downs. So it's like, there's not always all gravy, but it's all good. Um, so then had your success, then tell me about how you decided where to go to college and, you know, take that next step as far as your career.

• 7:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, growing up in Iowa, it's very cold there. I knew I did not want to stay in the Midwest. I really wanted to go somewhere warm, have nice weather. So I looked at a, a handful of different colleges, but I ultimately landed on Arizona State. I went to the hottest place I could.

• 7:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  But yeah, no, the coach there at the time, uh, when I had a conversation with him, I really wanted to make the Olympic trials the next year, um, as a freshman and not many coaches were like on board. Not that they like probably, I don't know, they just like, he, when I was talking to him, it was more like, we're going to do everything we can to get you there. And I was like, awesome. That's, that's the mentality I want. I want someone that believes in me and is going to help me get to where I want to go. Um, and just visiting there, it felt like home weirdly. Um, I just knew that I was going to be happy at this school, even if I got injured or running didn't work out or whatever it was. I just felt like I was going to be happy there. So that was a huge pull as well.

• 8:19Speaker 01

  And I think it was the best choice for me.

• 8:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Well, that's good. It's a, yeah, saying you want to make the trials, you were what 18, 19 at that time? Is that right? And in the 1500, is that what?

• 8:31Speaker 01

  In the 800.

• 8:32Cameron Hanes?

  In the 800. So what was, what was the, your time, your best time in the 800? I'm just curious now. And then what was Olympic trials qualifying time?

• 8:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, my freshman year of college, I ended up running 203 and I think it was like. I'm maybe a half second off making the trials.

• 8:51Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  Yeah. So I was like, I was very close. I wanted to run it again and just it didn't happen. But um, yeah, I mean, I was happy with it. I, I felt like I, I got as close as I could. So.

• 9:02Cameron Hanes?

  So that first time, first Olympic cycle, you didn't make the trials, then you, you made it the next time.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  I made it. I made the Olympic team. Yeah.

• 9:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's.

• 9:11Speaker 01

  In the 5K. So we went from the 800 to the 5K.

• 9:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 9:16Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, but it just shows your range too, because then now I know from following you and your story is you've also put down a super fast 10K time. And I mean, it was just by yourself, but like not, not very far off. I don't know what people in track say, but I mean, within striking distance of the American record and then 10K essentially. And by your, you just did it kind of by yourself, just on a training run.

• 9:42Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It was a time trial. So I did have like one pacer.

• 9:46Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 9:47Speaker 01

  Kind of helping me hopping in and out. Um, and but yeah, I mean, it's a empty stadium and you know, it's not exciting by any means.

• 9:56Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 9:56Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I ended up running 30, 31, which was, I can't remember what the American record was at the time, but it was like low 30s. Um, so I, it was, it was a good effort. I was not super happy with it because I wanted to just, you know, just come in and like, I'm coming in to break 30.

• 10:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:14Speaker 01

  I'm going to run in the 29s. I think I'm in like 29, 40 shape. And then in running 30, 31, I was like, that sucked.

• 10:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I, I get it. It's a huge, it's a amazing effort still, especially during the, or given those circumstances. But uh, yeah, it's, I don't know. So I just think of the range from the 800 to the 10,000. That's, it reminds me of like these old stories about Prefontaine, because when he died, he, he had the American record and everything, I think from, God, maybe it's a 2,000 to the 10,000. So not quite the same range, but that reminds me of that story, like just being good at running, just pushing hard, paying endurance and fast. And that's, I mean, that's you, right?

• 11:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, I try. I just like racing. I'm just like, I'll, I'll do anything. I don't care if it's the marathon. I'd love an 800. I'd love to get another 800. I just like the competition and I like the idea of like using every like tool in the drawer. You know, like I, I don't want to just be so focused on this one thing and only sharpening this one thing. I like to just have a challenge and try everything.

• 11:26Cameron Hanes?

  Carry rocks up mountains, stuff like that.

• 11:29Speaker 01

  Exactly. I want to try away from a challenge.

• 11:32Cameron Hanes?

  No, that's one thing that I've learned about you is you're down for anything. So that's fun.

• 11:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:37Cameron Hanes?

  It's also, it's cool for running, but it's also fun for life. So, so I appreciate that about just your attitude and just, yeah, let's do it. I always, you know, talking about your mom and, and her being a runner, was she your inspiration? Or did you have, did you have runners, like professional runners you followed and were fans of and inspired by them?

• 12:01Speaker 01

  My, my mom definitely was an inspiration. I mean, she was the closest person to me. She was, uh, you know, I would run with her pretty much every day. Uh, and so she was a huge motivator for me. I, I was always, for whatever reason, like careful growing up. I didn't really have like idols or anything because I just didn't want to put people on that pedestal. I had people that like, I really looked up to, you know, Jenny Simpson. She was a good runner at the time and that was like the level that I wanted to be at. But I didn't want to put her on this pedestal because I ended up racing against her at some point, you know?

• 12:41Speaker 01

  So it was like, I was always careful not to like, to idolize people, but look at where they were at and want to be where they were at or better than them. So I'd say my mom definitely was a, a good motivator as far as like just pushing me to, to continue getting to those levels.

• 12:59Cameron Hanes?

  And then like, everybody has, well, I, I can't speak for you, but most, I'll just speak for myself. Like it was, we'd watch these people like a Michael Jordan or even like a Rambo or like, just like these badass people you look up to as a kid. Did you have, like, did you have, uh, I don't know. When I think of like, like Jordan, that competitive fire and just to win, um, is that what drew you?

• 13:28Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know, is that like the mindset you would have is like, I'm just gonna win, I'm gonna beat these people, I'm gonna work harder, I'm just gonna, I'm gonna prove I'm the best. And was it that competition just basically with yourself, or what drove you to be the best?

• 13:46Speaker 01

  I think it was a little bit of everything, definitely that like curiosity, like how good can I be? It's also that competitiveness of like, well, if they can do it, I can do it, you know, like, just like, I at least want to see if I can and see how close I can get. But no, I mean, I really do think it's like that internal drive of just, I'm just curious to see how good I could be at this. I think I can be the best in the world. If that's true, we'll see, but like, let's find out.

• 14:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah. No, it's, I don't know, in running such that, you know, everybody can run. So it's like you're basically, some of these sports, you know, I see like you always, you see parents and you're like, gosh, what could I have my kid do that they could excel at? And usually, running is one of the last on the list because everyone, the barrier to entry of running is low. So everyone runs, you're beating everyone in the world if that's it. It's like, as opposed to like polo, or, you know, or even golf or tennis, you know, I mean, that's, that's a lot smaller group of people, or skiing, like Alpine skiing, who, that takes money usually, but running.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  You just need pair of running shoes.

• 14:58Cameron Hanes?

  It's just everyone. So when you say, I want to be the best at running, that is tough. That is tough. So I love that attitude. And I love the success you've had. It's like been, I don't know, and I don't, I don't know what, how we want to talk about it, doesn't matter, but you've been, as I said, ups and downs. So you're coming back, you had a four year break, essentially. So how, how do you, how are you navigating through that? What I've been so impressed with is,

• 15:33Cameron Hanes?

  You were banned for four years, but during that time, from my perspective, you trained your ass off. Did you?

• 15:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:41Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, is that, and how? Because most people need everything going their way to put in hard work. So how do you, even with what you had to deal with, how did you still just show up and put in work?

• 15:59Speaker 01

  It was definitely not easy. And I would say a lot of the time, I did not want to get out the door to go do it. It was, it was not fun. All of the things that I loved about running, like, I love the community aspect of it. I love going out to practice and workouts and like hurting with people. There's just like that bond that you create. It makes it super fun. I really like that. So that was a huge piece missing for those four years. And it just like made it not fun. But yeah, I don't know. I think it's like a variety of different things. I didn't know who I was without it. So like, I couldn't even imagine stopping. So it's like, I, like, I'm not going to be anybody or like, who am I without this?

• 16:43Speaker 01

  So like, almost the fear of, like, if I do stop, then there's nothing. So that was a huge thing that kept me going for a long time. And, you know, the, kind of like the you to, to people, you know, I, I knew that, you know, I did not deserve to be banned. And so it was like, yeah, I'm going to come back and I'm going to show you that I can come back and I'm still going to be good at this. It's also that like curiosity. You know, I want to see how good I can be. I still feel like I have potential there. I still feel like I can be better than I am right now. And I, like, if I step away from this, I'll never know what it, like, what it could have been.

• 17:24Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  And I didn't want to live my life with regret and always wondering like, what if I would have just stuck it out and come back?

• 17:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's it's true. I mean, I have a run track, but I've been a huge track fan. So I know the team aspect is so powerful and it is, you know, I follow, you know, a lot of people friends with Emma Coburn and I see that like, you know, their training group is so tight knit and it's just like, it's what, you know, then I see all these other people and they have these training camps and we saw the pros in town today, running over by Hayward. They're people you know.

• 18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, they were my old team.

• 18:01Cameron Hanes?

  Old team and it's like 10 of them out there just like, okay, let's meet and do it. So to that is such a huge part of the sport and a career as a runner is who's your team, who's your coach? And you had, that was gone. I mean,

• 18:17Speaker 01

  Just like that.

• 18:18Cameron Hanes?

  And and for you to say that, yeah, you wanted to come back to whatever to the or whatever, that sounds good. That's hard, though. That that'll, that might get you through a day.

• 18:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:28Cameron Hanes?

  Like, yeah, I'm gonna, I'm gonna show them. That's one day out of well, 1,200 days, 1,300 days for four years, you know, 365 days in a year. And it's like, it's really hard because as you said, it's hard to run anyway. It's just, just getting out the door for anyone. There's days, most days, most people are like, I don't want to do this. Then you add all those other challenges. So for you to be able to do that for 1,300 or however many days it was on your own, it's like, that's what's blown me away. That's been, that's what's blown me away about your story more than anything. Because if you, you know, people can say whatever they want, but if you look at the, if you're just objective,

• 19:11Cameron Hanes?

  you've been good or elite, best, best in whatever in the field your whole life, forever. And so that four years and people can say whatever. It's like, no, you were

• 19:27Cameron Hanes?

  you've been elite this whole time. It wasn't, nothing changed.

• 19:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:31Cameron Hanes?

  It's just like, so what are we talking about? But the point is, is like,

• 19:37Cameron Hanes?

  To to put in the work and come back after four years on your own with no coach and no team and to get your first world medal, a silver at the world indoor championships just a couple of weeks ago, right? Amazing. I mean, how? I I I still don't that. And I was telling, you know, we have spent a lot of time together in the last couple of days, but I'm like, I don't care what anybody says, that gives you an edge over so many other runners because of what you've been through. You're gritty. You're tough. And they haven't had to go through that. You did. And you've come out on the other side and you're still winning.

• 20:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 20:17Cameron Hanes?

  That must feel good.

• 20:18Speaker 01

  It does feel good. And it's like, I'm, even though it was really hard to get out the door, a lot of the times, I'm so happy that I stuck it out and I did because it's paying off. And I'm like, I I know that's how running is. You just stacked, you know, months, years of training together. And if you're be able to stay healthy and just keep that dedication, that persistence, it'll pay off eventually. Maybe not like the first time or like the 30th, like it might just take time. But if you're, if you just stick it out and keep showing up and trying at some point, it'll pay off. So I think that was really the big motivator. Like, if I stop, if I don't train these four years, am I going to be able to come back

• 21:03Speaker 01

  at that level? I'm going to be four years behind everybody else. So I need to like at least stay in that zone so that I can come back easier. And that was, I guess, a huge motivator, too, is like, I want to give myself the best shot at coming back. So even though I don't want to get out the door, I know I need to. And at that point, you know, like, I've been doing this my whole life. This is a habit. It's, it's never been a question of whether I'm gonna get out the door. It's just like, oh, okay, I don't want to do it today, but I'm gonna do it today because that's what I do.

• 21:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So what I hear is like, part of the work was, I gotta keep this base, you know? But. Aside from that, you were also doing super hard workouts at times, right?

• 21:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:48Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, because how else would you be able to come back so quickly after the band ended? And win a world medal unless you were like pushing? So some of it, yeah, it's like, I gotta do this because I don't want to lose four years. I don't want to lose this steam or this momentum. But also like you must have been doing super hard workouts at the same time or every once in a while.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:11Cameron Hanes?

  And then have you always been shredded because you're like shredded?

• 22:16Speaker 01

  I've always just been athletic. Yeah.

• 22:18Cameron Hanes?

  That's pretty nice. Like how disciplined is like, I know training, but do you think about food? Or is it, do you just train so hard that you don't have to really, you know, get that deep into nutrition or how does that fit in?

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Uh, I would say like the last four years I haven't been, I've really just been trying to get the work in. I haven't been getting in the gym. I haven't been, I, I've been kind of focused on nutrition just because I'm, after everything that's happened, I'm scared of what I'm eating.

• 22:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 22:53Speaker 01

  Um, so there was that, but I would say my biggest thing was just, just to get out the door, just to get it done. Um, as I'm getting more into competing again, nutrition is a huge thing and just like eating clean. Uh, you know, I'm making most of my food and trying to eat healthy food. Before I was just like, it didn't matter. So I was like, it's fine. I'm getting the work in at least, you know?

• 23:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  So I just tried to do the things that I liked to do. Um, and I tried to find ways to make it fun. Um, by, you know, at some point I started going to local run clubs and just like running with some of those people just to have that sense of community and some fun and like to mix it up. Uh, so those are some things that I was doing to try to like, keep it, like keep myself going, I guess.

• 23:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Stay sane, sort of.

• 23:48Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 23:49Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, we're, it is such a, you know, running as a community type of event usually it's like, or endeavor. And so, yeah, being around people, that's usually. Everybody loves to run with somebody, you know, so I get that you that you had that a little bit taken away from you where um you know, the the ability to compete was taken away, but even some of that community was taken away in some ways. And uh, yeah, so I've I've just been impressed with I I just can't imagine how hard that was because what you do is already hard. As I said, everybody runs to rise to the top in running.

• 24:29Cameron Hanes?

  You're a freak, but then to have to do it on your own is is crazy. But we also forgot, I forgot one accolade, the the beer beer mile is a world record.

• 24:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:41Cameron Hanes?

  Like women's world record beer mile. Forgot that one. Shit.

• 24:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is the best one.

• 24:46Cameron Hanes?

  So that's impressive. And you got one tomorrow. You're running.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 24:51Cameron Hanes?

  So that's gonna be fun.

• 24:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, I haven't really been practicing. So well, I mean, I got the running part down. I haven't practiced. I haven't been practicing chugging. So we'll see how that goes. But yeah, I think that was a I did that um, a couple of years ago, I got to do the beer mile world champs. And it was so fun. And it was like, just something to look forward to uh, and and to train for and practice for and the community was awesome. And I felt like that helped me because I had a lot of anxiety around running after everything that's happened. So like, even going back and putting myself into the running community was terrifying. I would show up to tracks and there'd be runners there and I would like be having a panic attacks. I'm just like, I don't do they know who I am?

• 25:36Speaker 01

  Like, do they know my story? Or are they supportive? Um, so

• 25:40Cameron Hanes?

  They judging me?

• 25:41Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. So like that taking a like, kind of dipping my toe in and like, okay, let's start with the beer mile. Let's start there, you know? That was a big step for me uh, just to put myself back out there, do a beer mile. It went really well. I got the world record. So that was cool. Uh, and then, yeah, I think it's just held a special place in my heart. And I want to keep doing them, even though they're like dumb. But like, I don't know, it's just. It's a really cool community and I want to continue being a part of it.

• 26:14Cameron Hanes?

  Well, they accepted you.

• 26:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:16Cameron Hanes?

  So it's like that's, that's a start.

• 26:18Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 26:18Cameron Hanes?

  Um, yeah, cause he's like, all people want to do is like have somebody they can call their whatever, their group of whatever.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 26:26Cameron Hanes?

  Not judging me, you know, and so I get that. But what I've, I've enjoyed seeing also, and I've noticed and I asked you about a few runners, but your reception back has seemed like it's been positive. And from, from other runners, and I saw some after races and I saw other girls hugging you and that was cool. I'm like, you know, I like seeing that.

• 26:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:48Cameron Hanes?

  So it sounds to me like you've got support too.

• 26:52Speaker 01

  I think so. I think, you know, people online are the loudest people. Um, and it's easy to hide behind a keyboard for sure.

• 27:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 27:02Speaker 01

  And I think it's been surprising that it has been so positive. It's been like neutral positive. I haven't had any negativity in person yet, which I'm kind of shocked about. Uh, pleasantly surprised. That's been great.

• 27:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 27:15Speaker 01

  Um, obviously online, it's like a little bit of a different story and that's what the, that was my only exposure to the community with the last four years was the online presence.

• 27:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  So I was really scared to come back into it.

• 27:28Cameron Hanes?

  Toxic, yeah.

• 27:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's super toxic. So, uh, it's been, I think there's a lot more support than I was even aware of.

• 27:37Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  So it's been really cool to come back and see that.

• 27:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I mean, I kinda, I don't understand, you know, what you've been going through, but I do understand how people like, they love to judge. And the people who believe in you are gonna believe, always believe in you. The people, because they probably know you. The people who don't are gonna be the loudest detractors. And it's like, you know, hunting in some way, I hate to tie everything back to my stupid world, but I just know, like, I remember, um, there's little things that can happen where, uh,

• 28:11Cameron Hanes?

  I see. There's something like in Colorado, if you're hunting there, no matter how old you are, you have to have proof of a hunter safety card like you take when you're 12 years old. So, long story short, if you don't have that, and I've, I've got a frog in my throat. But anyway, if you don't have that, even after you've hunted your whole life, you can get a ticket like, like from a game warden. And some people would see that and to me, and I could, I could get one if I forgot my hunter safety card, I could get a ticket and people would discount everything I've done, all these, all these animals, all the success I've had, it would all be tainted because I forgot my hunter

• 28:53Cameron Hanes?

  safety card one time. And for some people, some people would be like, oh, that's, people make mistakes. It's just like, how do you control, you know, I control everything. And some people would be like, oh yeah, he's been cheating his whole life. You know what I mean? So it's just like, it's always that it's either black or white and there's never any gray. And it's just like, no, I actually know I forgot my wallet is on the table and, you know, I wasn't doing anything. I just forgot. So I get how you can do everything right for a million years, for me for decades, all thrown out with one mistake. So it's like, I, I just, to me, it's like the people who I see that are, have been in your corner, those are the,

• 29:38Cameron Hanes?

  from what I've read, it's like, those are the people who know who you are. And it's like, I've, I've seen those clips and they're just like, no, I have no doubt, you know, Shelby's done everything right. And the people who don't know, or maybe have maybe a chip on their shoulder about something, maybe you've beat them, I don't know. Um, those are going to be the loud ones. But just getting through that is what I've been so impressed with. Like, again, the work, but I'm so glad that like, the reception has been positive, but the success has been there. And it's like, when I think of it is, yeah, you lost four years of, people would say it was prime time for you for sure. But what if like, uh, what if maybe?

• 30:22Cameron Hanes?

  The 10,000 or the 5,000 is where you're, that's where your calling has been. And generally, the older you get, or you got a little more time on those longer distance races, right, to be elite?

• 30:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:36Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, maybe it was all for a reason, and maybe that's where you're gonna go and win an Olympic gold. Who knows?

• 30:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, who knows? I'm, I'm here for it. I, like I said, I will not shy away from the challenge. I have no problem moving up in distance. I still have some just unfinished business, I think, in the, in the 15. Uh, and I want to go back and like stay on the track for a little bit, just to see if I'm still competitive there. But, yeah, I'm, I'm, I'm excited to do a 10K, to do the longer distances and really see, is this something, like, is this where I should be at?

• 31:10Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm.

• 31:10Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, I don't know yet. It'll be fun to find out. I'm excited.

• 31:14Cameron Hanes?

  I'm always like, no matter how shitty it seems, everything happens for a reason. Whatever the reason was, who knows? But maybe it was, maybe it's gonna work out and it's gonna be amazing. Um, but I was curious when you said that. So unfinished business in the 15. You had the American record, 354.99. What, how, what happened in the Olympics? Like, what, I know the Olympics is not really a good gauge, because sometimes you have slow races in the Olympics, right? But what won it this year? Was it, was it 350? Or was it slower?

• 31:46Speaker 01

  I cannot remember off the top of my head.

• 31:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, but that's with super shoes, right? Which has kind of changed the game a little bit.

• 31:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:54Cameron Hanes?

  So who knows what, what that's gonna do to your performance?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. No, I've, I've always been pretty hesitant to use the, the shoes, especially when, you know, four years ago, they first came, they were kind of first becoming a thing. Uh, not everyone had them, and there was the stigma of like, Are they fair? I don't know. Uh, I felt like they weren't, so I never chose to wore them, uh, wear them, but uh, yeah, I think now that they're becoming much more accepted throughout the track world, everyone's, everyone's kind of using them and you're seeing these faster times. So I think at this point I need to evolve with the sport and wear them and I, and I have. Um, so I'm, I'm curious to see what that's going to translate to in terms

• 32:42Speaker 01

  of my performance, but yeah, it's, it's interesting. It's that line, right? Of like technology is it how like we need it to continue growing and evolving as a sport, but like at what point is this too much? Um, yeah, it's kind of all arbitrary, but yeah, or subjective, but yeah, I mean, it's interesting.

• 33:02Cameron Hanes?

  It's interesting to talk about because then it made me think, and we were talking about this yesterday of Zola Budd back in the day, you know, famously she tripped a, an Eugene athlete here, Mary Slaney in the Olympics, but she ran barefooted and it's like, could you imagine what she could have done with super shoes as opposed to barefoot? It's insane.

• 33:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 33:22Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I wonder how much faster she could have been.

• 33:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, actually though.

• 33:26Cameron Hanes?

  So.

• 33:26Speaker 01

  Crazy.

• 33:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Uh, but yeah, amazing things, sports changing, performances are getting better, faster, but man, I'm excited to see what she can do for sure. I mean, I was, I was curious that we talked about, um, teams and how important that is. How have you done what you've done with no coach? It's like, how important is having a good coach if you've had the success without a coach?

• 33:55Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Yeah. I mean, I, I, it's, I have had a coach. It just hasn't, they haven't been there with me. Yeah. So I did, my, my sister actually has been coaching me the last couple of years, uh, but we haven't been in the same location most of the time. So it's just, you know, send text workouts and then I'll just go to the track by myself. No one's out there. No one's holding a stopwatch and I have to go get my, the workout in. Um, that's, that's been super hard. It's, it makes such a difference just having one person out there holding a stopwatch and giving me splits. It's, there's so much more like mental energy that goes into having to check splits, make sure I'm on pace. Uh, and you know, it, it's hard, uh, but it's.

• 34:40Speaker 01

  I've figured out how to make it work. I think it just becomes a new normal at some point. It was really hard the first two years to be okay with it. And I think one of my strong suits is my like mental abilities is to like just push through things. And the first two years, I was honestly questioning, like, did I lose it? Like, I would get into these workouts and get into that that hurt zone. And where I would normally be able to push past it, it was just like, the thoughts were just like, why am I doing this? Why am I out here? This doesn't like, this doesn't matter. You know, I, this doesn't count for anything. I'm not gonna go train for anything. And so I would, you know, just full blown pity pity party.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  And I'd end up either not being able to finish the workout or just needing to adjust. And so it was, I think, a huge learning moment for me to just like learn how to give myself a little more grace. Maybe adjust my standards for what I was doing. Uh, but it was, yeah, the first two years were really tough. I think the third and fourth year, it just, I learned how to adjust to it and make it into my new normal.

• 35:49Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm. I, again, that has to give you an edge. Just, just, just that awareness of what you've been through and like how hard that was. And you're on the cusp of like, maybe this is it. Maybe I don't have it. Maybe I lost my edge. To, to not losing your edge, fighting through. It's like, the grittiness that show, that has to like translate into performance in racing. Because in racing, that digging deep and who wants it more, which is sort of what that was, that determines who's winning, who's losing, who's making teams, who's not. It's like, who wants it the mo- more?

• 36:30Cameron Hanes?

  And you showed how bad you want it. It's like, man, that has to, that's gonna show itself. Has to. Maybe it already has.

• 36:37Speaker 01

  I think it has. It's, it's given me an interesting perspective too. Like, I find that I'm not getting as nervous for these races. And like, they still have a lot of meaning, but, you know, I've, going through, I've gone through. It doesn't matter what you do or what accolades you have. At some point, when you retire, you're not, you're not in the sport anymore. The sport's gonna move on and they're gonna forget about you. And like, that kinda is sad in some ways, but like, that's the reality of the situation. It's, at some point, you're gonna kinda be forgotten and the sport's gonna move on to the next fast person that's running fast times. And that was humbling in a way, uh, to go through the last four years.

• 37:18Speaker 01

  Uh, but it's, it's taken a lot of pressure off of me, uh, going into these races now, or I'm like, it doesn't matter, it doesn't matter what I do. I mean, I'm just out here for myself and I'm having a good time. And if I run awesome, that's gonna be amazing for me. Uh, and if I don't, then I'll learn something from it and people will talk about it for like, a day or two and then they're gonna move on to the next thing.

• 37:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 37:41Speaker 01

  So I think that's getting, been given, it's given me a, a, a greater perspective going into, just coming back into these races.

• 37:50Cameron Hanes?

  Mm-hmm. Um, yeah, I get that. It's just like, I wonder if, I mean, it's easy now, after the fact, but like, your story, cause everybody's like, okay, what's this person's story? I wonder if the ups and downs you've had makes, makes a better story. You know what I mean?

• 38:12Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:12Cameron Hanes?

  If somebody's like, um, I don't know, it just like, cause I even wonder, would, would we have had the last two days together if you, if that wouldn't happen to you? Because, probably not. I was like, I was like, watching your stuff and following your, your journey because I'm like, man, she's going through a lot. I wonder how she's gonna do. Uh, it, it had me, it had me, I was vested in the story.

• 38:41Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:42Cameron Hanes?

  Or invested in it. And it's like, I cared. So people like, what makes people care? Is it because somebody wins all the time? Or somebody has this huge thing and then you're like, how are they coming, gonna come back from this?

• 38:55Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 38:56Cameron Hanes?

  So you're, it's almost like an opportunity you wouldn't have had. Yeah, you've lost opportunities, but maybe this opportunity, and one of the films on you is called, I think, Rising.

• 39:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 39:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right? So, and that's the whole premise to what I'm talking about is like,

• 39:13Cameron Hanes?

  How are you gonna come back and how does, what's your story gonna be? And you're still telling it, but it almost makes a fuller, more enriched, more like

• 39:25Cameron Hanes?

  wide-ranging story because of all you've been through. That makes me care. That makes me wanna hear how you've done it, and I'm not the only one. So it's like, could this be a positive?

• 39:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, I think there's been a, a ton of positives through it. Uh, obviously, it was a super negative situation. But I kinda like you were saying, like, everybody loves a comeback story, for sure. And I think, you know, I, I'm, if I can give myself a, a bit of credit, I, I feel like going through this, I've flourished as a runner and as a person by just like going through this. I needed to figure out who I am without this. I feel like I did that. I like, I really grew as a person through all of this. Uh, and, yeah, I don't know. I, I'm, I'm really proud of how I've handled everything.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  And I now know that I'm super tough and I can like get through shit. Um, and I, I kinda feel like at this point, like, I don't know what else you could throw at me that I can't handle. Um, and that's great to know that, you know, but, uh, I don't know. I'm, I'm excited to continue writing the, the comeback story though.

• 40:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, it's, it's great. Um, it, when you were talking about that, it made me think of, has it kinda showed you like who you knew you could count on and who you were like, oh, I thought we were, I thought, well, to me, I'd say, I thought we were boys, but I guess we're not. But it's like, did you have people you're like, wow, I thought we were, thought that we were friends? And now, and then also maybe some people are like, well, I know that I can really count on that person now. Cause they're still here. I mean, did you, was that a realization you've had?

• 41:15Speaker 01

  A little bit. Um, it's funny. I don't feel like I like lost any friends through this. I think everyone that really knew who I was was like, that's bullshit. We know that you didn't do that.

• 41:25Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 41:25Speaker 01

  Um, so I don't feel like I lost any friends. If anything, my friendships strengthened a lot. You know, I had people that were just consistently checking in on me and just to see how I was doing. And like, that went a long life, a long way for me, uh, just to, and, and I like, I've, I'm someone that I don't like leaning on people or asking for help. I really just want to do it myself.

• 41:51Cameron Hanes?

  Independent.

• 41:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that, going through that really, it forced me to lean on people. And, you know, I, I was, I cried with my friends for like the first time ever. And just like, it just felt like because we went, like, I went through this and they went through this with me. We almost created this unshakable bond of going through this trauma essentially. And, uh, and my family, you know, they, they were there with me throughout everything. And they've been super helpful in the last four years. I was just like, hey, like, yeah, you can come crash at our house for six weeks. Like, cool. So, and I got to spend a lot more time with my, my family, my friends.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  So I think through that, if anything, yeah, like I said, I didn't lose any friendships, but I strengthened a lot of them.

• 42:40Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. That's good. I mean, that seems positive.

• 42:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:43Cameron Hanes?

  All positive. Well, how does, um, like as far as, so you're looking for, I don't know, you don't have a team, right? Or a coach or, or any sponsors. So what's business wise, what's the next step for you? I mean, just keep winning and, and hopefully something happens or what?

• 43:03Speaker 01

  That's kind of always been my plan, right? I was like, I don't know, you can come up with all like the set plan of like, oh, this is what needs to happen. But shit happens, you can't plan it.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  I guess I just wanna keep have like having fun, making this fun again, running fast. And you know, hopefully things will fall into place at some point. I don't know when that'll happen, you know, like I need to figure out a sponsor situation. I would love to have teammates again, like I just feel like you can push yourself so much harder. When someone's right next to you and and get yourself, get more out of yourself and more out of your teammate. I like that, so I really, a huge priority for me is just finding people to work out with consistently. Whether that's creating a team or joining one. But yeah, I mean, sponsors would be nice. I'd like to get paid for what I'm doing.

• 43:58Cameron Hanes?

  How are you making money right now?

• 44:00Speaker 01

  I mean, it's been nice to compete again and like do well, so I'm getting some prize money and stuff.

• 44:04Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 44:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, for the last four years, I've largely been relying on some savings or just like, you know, I did DoorDash for a while. Or like cat sitting and like stuff like just like odd and end jobs.

• 44:17Speaker 01

  And I, you know, I've been living kind of as a nomad the last two years. I'm not, I haven't been paying rent. But yeah, I've figured out a way to make it work, but yeah, sponsor, sponsor would be nice.

• 44:29Cameron Hanes?

  I bet. Yeah. What? I mean, you talked about it's nice having a teammate and pushing each other. What, what is it? I don't know, maybe we talked about this earlier, but what do you love most about running? What, what is, what's the love?

• 44:49Speaker 01

  I think two things come to mind. It's definitely that community aspect. I, when I was on, you know, Bowerman, the team that I was on before, it was such a close knit, like it just felt like family.

• 45:04Cameron Hanes?

  Those are your best friends you hung out with all the time.

• 45:06Speaker 01

  All the time. We lived together half the time at altitude camps, you know? So it's just like you got to know each other on such a deep level. And then to like go out and you're working hard and just trying to get the most out of yourself every workout. Trying to help your teammates get the most out of themselves. I liked.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  I just liked that relationship and I it every workout day I was like, hell yeah, it's a workout day. I was so excited.

• 45:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 45:32Speaker 01

  So I loved that part. It made it so fun. I was just, I was getting paid to do something that I absolutely loved. And so it was, it was awesome.

• 45:39Cameron Hanes?

  Obviously do for free.

• 45:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, I would do it for free. I've, I've been doing it for free for the last.

• 45:44Cameron Hanes?

  People say that I do this for free. It was like, well, would you? Cause you have.

• 45:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have, I have been.

• 45:49Cameron Hanes?

  It's true.

• 45:50Speaker 01

  I've been doing it for free. No one's watching. No one's holding the stopwatch. Um, but yeah, I mean, I think the other piece of the love is just the curiosity. I really just, like I said before, I believe that I'm, I can be the best in the world. I don't need that to happen. But I wanna see if it's there, you know, like.

• 46:12Cameron Hanes?

  That's real.

• 46:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. And if it's not, that's totally fine. Like I don't, I don't need it, but I want to see and find out if, if that's gonna happen.

• 46:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, I, I totally get that. Cause I, I do listen to some running podcasts. One of them, I wish I could think of, there's two of them, but one is called The Boulder Boys. Have you ever heard of that podcast?

• 46:31Speaker 01

  I don't think I have.

• 46:32Cameron Hanes?

  Anyway, it's just like a bunch of runners. They all live together. So it's like, when you're saying that we live together, you know, they do workouts together. There's another one too. So there's Boulder Boys, which is in Colorado. Then there's another group that's in Utah and they kind of talk shit about each other a little bit. I think it's kind of tongue, tongue in cheek, but point is, is like they are a team. They do all this training. They're hanging out together all the time. So I get that when, and then when that changes, when it's gone, it's like, man, that's a big, big difference.

• 47:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 47:02Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, so I, I get that. I just didn't know. Um, yeah, yeah. It, again, I've been so impressed with it. Um, but I was thinking too, so.

• 47:16Cameron Hanes?

  You talked about the importance of a coach, like who's been the best coach you've had? And um yeah, what, what, what did they do for you?

• 47:27Speaker 01

  That's a great question. I, I, my only pro coach that I've had is the Jerry.

• 47:35Cameron Hanes?

  Schumacher.

• 47:35Speaker 01

  Schumacher. Yeah. So that was when I was part of Bowerman, he, he's been the only coach that I've had. And it worked really well for me. Uh, I, it's just a lot of intensity, a lot of volume, just like, just go run and get better. Essentially and like, try to do it faster than every, like everyone else is doing. Um, and I liked that. So I think.

• 47:58Cameron Hanes?

  He knew how to challenge you or what?

• 47:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, well, he wasn't, you know, I, I've had coach where, coaches where I'll go out too hard and like, hey, that's not the split that I wanted you to do. And Jerry's kind of like, yeah, you look good. Like, keep going, you know? And I, I liked that. Uh, like, let's find the line.

• 48:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 48:15Speaker 01

  Um, so it really worked well. And I was, if you can stay healthy, it's, you know, hopefully going to work well. And I was able to stay healthy through that and it was paying off. I was, you know, setting American records.

• 48:28Cameron Hanes?

  Crushing it.

• 48:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was crushing it and I felt like I was just kind of like starting to gain that momentum. Uh, so I'd say Jerry is definitely one, as I've gotten older and through the last four years, uh, my sister was such a great coach for me. Uh, and she was much more collaborative of like, you know, I'd text her and be like, hey, I know I have hills today, but I'm just not feeling excited about that. And I'm having a hard time getting out the door. And she's like, no problem. Like, let's do this instead. Does this sound more exciting to you? And I was like, yeah, okay, let's do that instead.

• 49:03Cameron Hanes?

  That's good.

• 49:03Speaker 01

  So I think having someone that collaborated with me and like gave me that freedom. Or just like, hey, I want to go do this vacation trip. Like, is that fine?

• 49:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 49:15Speaker 01

  I'll do workouts there. Like, you know, in Europe somewhere. And she's like, yeah, go for it. You know, so it's, I think the flexibility was super nice. Um, so I think those two people for me, uh, they just.

• 49:28Speaker 01

  Were they're different, but I needed that difference at those times.

• 49:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. I like Jerry reminds me of like when you're training a racehorse, sometimes if you give it reins, it'll go, right? So he would like, give you the reins and like, yeah, your splits were a little fast, but he's like, it's all right. That's we like that. We like that heart to push to sometimes too hard.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:52Cameron Hanes?

  And yeah, it reminded me of of horse training a little bit like, just let that horse go. And that's kind of like you, you know, just let you go. But yeah, it's interesting because that coaching and the team aspect, yeah, big part of running and and just like elite running. So that's why it's been so impressive for you to to be able to do it on your own. It's incredible.

• 50:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So it's a, how do we get, how do we get these sponsors? What's, I mean,

• 50:24Speaker 01

  Hey guys, give me some money.

• 50:25Cameron Hanes?

  A world silver, what, what do, what do you want?

• 50:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. What, what do you want from me?

• 50:31Cameron Hanes?

  Seventeen? It's like, come on, guys. Um, so yeah, I mean, I, I said, I'll sponsor you. That's, I'll be your sponsor. It's like, let's start this, get this ball rolling. But, uh, yeah, pretty, I don't know. I want you to, to kick ass, get sponsors. I want you to be like the biggest star. That would be, to me, that's how you cap the revenge tour.

• 50:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 50:59Cameron Hanes?

  Right?

• 50:59Speaker 01

  No, I appreciate that. That's, yeah, that would, that would be awesome. And if I can end this year with a, a gold medal at Worlds, that would be, you know, that would definitely be great.

• 51:09Cameron Hanes?

  So Outdoor Worlds is when?

• 51:11Speaker 01

  Uh, end of September.

• 51:12Cameron Hanes?

  End of September. And you'll be running with the 15 and the three?

• 51:16Speaker 01

  I'll, I'll try it for the 15 5K.

• 51:19Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, 15 5?

• 51:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 51:20Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I didn't know that.

• 51:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. The three is usually just for indoors.

• 51:23Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see.

• 51:24Speaker 01

  So yeah, you, you have to either 15 or the 5K. Like the big, big jump.

• 51:30Cameron Hanes?

  That is different.

• 51:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. I've, I've in the past have doubled. Usually I'll do the 15 and the five.

• 51:35Cameron Hanes?

  And they give enough time to do that double?

• 51:37Speaker 01

  Usually. Yeah. Yep. So that's.

• 51:41Speaker 01

  It's been doable and I don't know that the schedules come out yet, so I'm gonna have to see if that's still doable, but uh yeah, I need to, I'm gonna try, we'll see what happens.

• 51:53Cameron Hanes?

  How do you get in, like, are you running Prefontaine, I think you said? So how do you get in? You have to be invited? Or do you ask them?

• 52:00Speaker 01

  I mean, typically, like, I have an agent, most, a lot of runners have agents, so like, they kind of like, hey, this is the races that I want to get in.

• 52:06Cameron Hanes?

  Why is your agent getting you sponsors?

• 52:07Speaker 01

  He's working on it, yeah. The sponsors are, you know,

• 52:11Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, cracking their feet.

• 52:13Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. But yeah, you can get invited to races, the agents can ask, like, hey, this is what we want to do. Um, it just kind of depends.

• 52:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, cuz I'm saying, you got a story. Do these, what do these meets, these meets want nobody to care about the runners? Or, hey, they care about you, good or bad, let's get you in the meet.

• 52:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, right? I don't know, I don't, I don't, I get there's like some controversy around it, but like, come on, guys, like, I'm good at what I do here, like, what do you want?

• 52:44Cameron Hanes?

  It's not a charity case.

• 52:46Speaker 01

  Like, whether you believe me or not, I still did the four-year ban, so like, like, you're gonna just continue punishing me? Like, I don't know.

• 52:54Cameron Hanes?

  And people, whatever race you do, people will be tuning in to find out.

• 52:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:00Cameron Hanes?

  What, where you fit in, and what happened, and, you know, how, how you're doing, and it's like, and how you can compare, how you compete, or they want to see you lose, or they want to see you win, cuz you get your, it's like, that's what it's all about. It's like the story.

• 53:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:16Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, what is it, lore, right?

• 53:18Speaker 01

  For the lore.

• 53:19Cameron Hanes?

  For the lore. It's like, are these frickin' track organizers retarded? It's like, can we say that?

• 53:27Speaker 01

  I don't get it, yeah, it's.

• 53:29Cameron Hanes?

  Um, alright, well, I want you in the big meets, how about that?

• 53:33Speaker 01

  I appreciate that, me too.

• 53:35Cameron Hanes?

  So, we always go to, uh, god, we f'ed around too long with tattoos and all sorts of shit, now I gotta get you to the airport, but we always have, um, from the peanut gallery, questions. And normally, we have to cut these out, cuz.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  I'm scared.

• 53:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:53Speaker 02

  We gotta at least ask you the classic.

• 53:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, so let's.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  What's the classic?

• 53:56Cameron Hanes?

  Let, let's hear some, let's hear some questions for Shelby.

• 54:00Speaker 02

  Okay. Uh, let me get him here. Alright, so.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  Hit me with it.

• 54:07Speaker 02

  The tradition is to ask the guest.

• 54:12Speaker 02

  Marry, kill.

• 54:15Speaker 01

  All right, here we go. Starting off strong.

• 54:18Speaker 02

  Marry, kill, fifteen hundred, five K, or, yeah, and then ten K.

• 54:25Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 54:27Cameron Hanes?

  Wait a second. Yeah, okay, I guess that could work. Yeah.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  Oh, this is, yes.

• 54:34Cameron Hanes?

  Cause you gotta think about the future, too.

• 54:36Speaker 01

  I know.

• 54:40Speaker 01

  This is actually pretty hard.

• 54:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:46Speaker 01

  I think I want to marry the fifteen because I just love that race.

• 54:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:52Speaker 01

  You, you have to like really execute it perfectly.

• 54:55Cameron Hanes?

  And you're the American record holder.

• 54:56Speaker 01

  And I'm the American record holder, so, you know, I gotta pick that one. Um, I'm struggling between these two. I've never like really raced a ten K before.

• 55:06Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 55:06Speaker 01

  So it's.

• 55:07Cameron Hanes?

  You can't kill that then, cause you don't know, do you?

• 55:10Speaker 01

  But I did it.

• 55:11Cameron Hanes?

  What if that's the thing and you killed it?

• 55:13Speaker 01

  The time trial sucked. It was so hard and like.

• 55:18Cameron Hanes?

  I heard you say you're never, or like you thought you'd never do it again, or it hurts so bad.

• 55:22Speaker 01

  I'm gonna do it again. But like, yeah, it was, it was, I was going into it like, I can do this, I'm gonna be good at this. And then it just, it just hurt, you know?

• 55:31Cameron Hanes?

  Thirty minutes of pain?

• 55:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 55:33Speaker 01

  Um.

• 55:36Speaker 01

  I think I'm gonna fuck the ten K though, and I'm gonna kill the five K.

• 55:40Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. All right, the future's a ten K.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  The curiosity for the ten is there, you know, like.

• 55:46Cameron Hanes?

  I heard the ten's a good time.

• 55:47Speaker 01

  The lust, the lust is there.

• 55:49Cameron Hanes?

  I like it. I like it.

• 55:52Speaker 02

  Um, how do you go about kinda carment, cart?

• 55:57Cameron Hanes?

  Jeez, would you like to buy a vowel?

• 56:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's the, it's the headphones. I sound like Larry.

• 56:04Speaker 02

  Uh, how do you go about categorizing before, um, the band and after? Do you feel like you're, like, you know, it's a before and after thing? Or do you feel like you're chasing your old version? Or you're flourishing into this new person? Or how do you categorize those two?

• 56:19Speaker 01

  Hmm, it's definitely a before and after, um.

• 56:24Speaker 01

  But I have, I feel like I've tried to really let go of the before. Cause that's, yeah, I don't know, it's, I'm somewhat comparing myself, but I've really tried to also let it go of like, yeah, I'm not gonna be the same runner that I was four years ago. Like, I'm, I'm much different as a person. I've grown through that adversity. Uh, obviously I'm a four years older, so we'll see what that is, but that doesn't mean that I can't be better than I was four years ago. So I think I've just really tried to like, it is what it is. I can't change it. I can control what has gonna happen now and like how I'm gonna progress forward. Um, and I'm trying not to really dwell on, yeah, like, like I said, like,

• 57:10Speaker 01

  that doesn't mean I can't be better than I was before. So I'm gonna see what that looks like.

• 57:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, cause you trained, so um, when I think, I always, when I think of track, I always think of Emma, like, when you're not competing, there's a, there's a lesser chance you're gonna push injury, cause I know, like she broke her leg during the steeple. She pulled her hamstring and tried to race through it. So if you were like flirting with injury in training, you wouldn't have to push it, cause you didn't have a race.

• 57:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:41Cameron Hanes?

  You know, so maybe because you weren't pushing your body when you shouldn't, which is kind of the name of the game sometimes in track. Like you, you got a little niggling, you got something, but you gotta show up. You gotta get paid, right? And it's like, you didn't have to do that.

• 57:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:59Cameron Hanes?

  You had four years of making good decisions on training.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was the healthiest four years that I had.

• 58:04Cameron Hanes?

  Right, so maybe it wasn't as bad as like when you say, oh, I took four years out of the prime of my career. It's like, well, maybe, maybe you would have lost some of that anyway, because training does take it out of you and racing takes it out of you. So.

• 58:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, who's to say that I wouldn't have been injured for four years?

• 58:23Cameron Hanes?

  It's all of how you frame it.

• 58:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:24Cameron Hanes?

  So we're just choosing to frame it in a positive manner.

• 58:28Speaker 02

  Um, when we were doing the Rock, you asked Cam what he thinks about when things get hard. What do you think about?

• 58:36Speaker 01

  Oh, that's a good question.

• 58:39Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, these guys seem like idiots, but, and they are.

• 58:43Speaker 01

  They're taking notes.

• 58:44Cameron Hanes?

  But, yeah, that's all. Never mind.

• 58:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're just idiots.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  I

• 58:55Speaker 01

  It's very positive in my head. It's definitely like you got this. You can do this like.

• 59:01Cameron Hanes?

  So we're different.

• 59:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. I was like listening to your answer is like.

• 59:04Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 59:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, we're just different. Like, there's no good or bad.

• 59:08Cameron Hanes?

  Cause I hate everyone.

• 59:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're just like.

• 59:10Cameron Hanes?

  Of them all.

• 59:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm just like, oh, I'm having so much fun out here.

• 59:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  Um, yeah, it's definitely, it's definitely more positive, good, like I can do this. I feel good right now. I'm relaxed.

• 59:22Cameron Hanes?

  You got it, girl.

• 59:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, you know, positive self-talk. Uh, I definitely, I try to like body scan and like, like relax my body. Um, and continue like pushing forward, but it kind of goes back to that regret. Like I know if I slow down, I'm gonna not be happy with what I did. So I'm gonna just like keep pushing and if I blow up, I blow up. It's fine. Like I'll just try again the next time, you know?

• 59:50Cameron Hanes?

  So positive.

• 59:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, positive.

• 59:53Speaker 02

  Okay, trying to pick the good ones here because I know we're running out of time, but um, who are individuals either in the sport or out of the sport that inspire you, especially when it comes to kind of owning their story?

• 1:00:09Speaker 01

  That's a really tough question.

• 1:00:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she didn't say a good question.

• 1:00:16Speaker 01

  Oh, man, um.

• 1:00:18Cameron Hanes?

  Owning their story. So controlling the narrative or like, or just creating their own narrative on this is.

• 1:00:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, kind of like what, kind of like what you've talked about is, you know, own it. It's a, you know, redemption era.

• 1:00:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:00:35Speaker 01

  You know, the one that comes to mind, um, I always, I don't know if I ever say her name, Ellie or Elle Perrier. Uh, she's another 1500 meter runner.

• 1:00:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:45Speaker 01

  And she's, you know, gone and have had a baby and came back and she was killing it. And I thought that was like super cool. And she's like, yeah, I don't care. Like I'm just gonna go like have a family because this is what it's, is important to me. And right now she's pregnant and like she's out this year. So it's like, I really have a lot of respect for that where like. That's not the like typical thing that runners do, especially like in their prime. They really put their career first.

• 1:01:11Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:12Speaker 01

  And I like that. She was like, I can do both.

• 1:01:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  You know, and, and actually was like do it like killing it.

• 1:01:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she was. She was at the top of the game.

• 1:01:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:21Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, like breaking American records.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:24Cameron Hanes?

  And then was out being pregnant.

• 1:01:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, I have a lot of respect for her.

• 1:01:29Cameron Hanes?

  I get that. Yeah. I think she's like from the Midwest too, is she?

• 1:01:32Speaker 01

  She's, I believe, I'm gonna say like Vermont.

• 1:01:36Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, okay. Maybe, maybe. Yeah, I thought, for some reason, I thought like farming or something like that.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, she's like with dairy cows.

• 1:01:44Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I think it's, I'm pretty sure it's Vermont. It's definitely the East Coast.

• 1:01:48Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:48Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No, I, I, I'm familiar with that story too. And yeah, it's hard not to respect that.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:01:57Speaker 02

  Hoping your answer brings this full circle. What's something outside of your sport that you're excited about right now?

• 1:02:04Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  I have been getting a master's degree in sports psychology, uh, so.

• 1:02:13Cameron Hanes?

  No, that was, that's the wrong answer.

• 1:02:15Speaker 01

  That wasn't the answer you were looking for.

• 1:02:17Cameron Hanes?

  There we go. He said full circle. So we're, so no.

• 1:02:21Speaker 01

  I'm really into rocks right now, you know?

• 1:02:23Cameron Hanes?

  No, you were wrong. You're wrong on your map.

• 1:02:27Speaker 01

  I really was a rock.

• 1:02:28Cameron Hanes?

  Let, let me just give you a hint.

• 1:02:30Speaker 01

  I'm, my new hobby is bow hunting. Um.

• 1:02:34Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, that's cool. Really?

• 1:02:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it was so crazy. You know, I picked it up yesterday and the people told me I was a natural. So honestly though, like it was so much fun.

• 1:02:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:02:47Speaker 01

  And I, I'm like, I could definitely see how I could be addicted to this. This is just, you know, wanting to get it perfect.

• 1:02:55Cameron Hanes?

  You are so good.

• 1:02:56Speaker 01

  I will just keep doing it until I get it.

• 1:02:58Cameron Hanes?

  Are you, I mean, you, it wasn't, didn't she look like, I seriously don't know if we've had anybody as fast as, I don't wanna say master, but pretty damn close, but as you, you were.

• 1:03:11Speaker 01

  Oh, thank you.

• 1:03:12Cameron Hanes?

  The quickest learner we've had. There's like.

• 1:03:15Speaker 01

  That's what I strive for.

• 1:03:16Cameron Hanes?

  Shooting so good. And Wayne, Wayne, he does this every day. All, he's doing it right now.

• 1:03:21Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:03:21Cameron Hanes?

  Teaching new people how to shoot a bow. And he was impressed. You were so good.

• 1:03:26Speaker 01

  Oh, I appreciate that. No, it was, I had so much fun. And yeah, no, it was, it was awesome. I'm. Definitely wanting to keep, I want to keep doing that for sure.

• 1:03:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you're so when you started to answer that question is about a map about the the as far from the opposite of master's degree is bow hunting.

• 1:03:48Cameron Hanes?

  It's like you couldn't get.

• 1:03:50Speaker 01

  Bow hunting, going back to school.

• 1:03:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and be getting smart and and yeah, being accomplished or bow hunting. So we.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  I'm either helping people or killing things.

• 1:03:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, exactly. Right. So we go with bow hunting here and then like on in that regard, we have all sorts of presents for you. So the new Hoy bow, we got this because when you do kill and not help people, you need a knife to get those animals skinned. And then you got a new shirt with the with the bear.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Oh, sick.

• 1:04:24Cameron Hanes?

  Um, Montana Knife Company shirt.

• 1:04:26Speaker 01

  That looks awesome.

• 1:04:26Cameron Hanes?

  And then also because you had those stupid Nikes today that won't sponsor you right yet.

• 1:04:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:33Cameron Hanes?

  We got you some new.

• 1:04:34Speaker 01

  Give me some new stuff.

• 1:04:35Cameron Hanes?

  So look at all this.

• 1:04:36Speaker 01

  Oh, no, I appreciate that. That's so cool. No. Yeah, this is awesome. I really appreciate it. Thank you so much.

• 1:04:43Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, it's been so fun hanging out and you've been, I mean, you're like the perfect guest because down for anything. It's like.

• 1:04:49Speaker 01

  I'm a yes person.

• 1:04:50Cameron Hanes?

  Want to get a tattoo? Yeah, let's get a tattoo. It's like, what?

• 1:04:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:56Cameron Hanes?

  We weren't even being serious.

• 1:04:57Speaker 01

  I'm down for an impulse tat.

• 1:04:59Cameron Hanes?

  I loved it. Loved it.

• 1:05:00Speaker 01

  Here for the lore.

• 1:05:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, exactly. It's a we've had, I mean, I can't the the time, everything we've done today, I can't even real or like in the last two days, can't really think, but we carried the rock up the mountain. We shot a bow. We ran Spencer's today. We, uh, what else? Oh, we went to O P H for breakfast. We got tattoos. We did podcast. We ate, uh, that's an elk burger you ate, by the way, um, ate hamburgers. We hung out. What else did we do?

• 1:05:32Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, sauna and cold plunge.

• 1:05:34Speaker 01

  How could we forget that one?

• 1:05:35Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, we've done it all.

• 1:05:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, we've spent, we've spent a lot into two days.

• 1:05:41Cameron Hanes?

  That is, it's been so fun. I'm so thankful. I'm so happy you came and I feel like, you know, the BFF is like kind of solidified.

• 1:05:51Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 1:05:52Cameron Hanes?

  So, thank you, Shelby. It's been incredible. Did you guys have any other questions, by the way?

• 1:05:59Cameron Hanes?

  We got, we got one minute, or no, we got zero minutes, but go, I want to hear what you say.

• 1:06:06Speaker 02

  Was there ever a moment during the band?

• 1:06:09Cameron Hanes?

  I don't, I don't, there you go.

• 1:06:10Speaker 02

  Can you hear me?

• 1:06:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Speaker 02

  This thing on?

• 1:06:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Speaker 02

  Was there ever a moment during the band that you thought, maybe I'm not a runner anymore? And if so, how did you get through that?

• 1:06:28Speaker 01

  I think this last year,

• 1:06:33Speaker 01

  I really got to a point where I had other things that I was interested in and other passions. And it really hit me like I was watching a, I think I was watching Prefontaine and they were running super fast and I just found like, I don't care, like as, as much as I did before, like I, I wasn't just like, you know, I don't know, I don't know how to describe that exactly. It was just like, this isn't really all that I am anymore. And that's, that was really cool.

• 1:07:04Cameron Hanes?

  Was it scary?

• 1:07:06Speaker 01

  I don't, it kind of felt freeing, honestly, whereas like, I don't have to come back to this. Like, if I don't want to do this anymore, I don't have to do it. Like I, you know, it, it almost felt very freeing from everyone else's expectations of like, oh, but you could be so good at this if you like did this. And I was just like, I don't care. Like, um, so yeah, I think that was really in a lot of ways freeing and it was able, I was able to come back to it really just running for myself instead of other people or what other people wanted me to do. Um, but in order to get to that point, you know, I, I had to go through a lot of lows to even get to a point where I

• 1:07:50Speaker 01

  didn't really identify only as a runner anymore, you know? So it's quite a journey, but I'm glad that I intentionally did try to grow and make the most of that.

• 1:08:03Cameron Hanes?

  I'm glad you're back.

• 1:08:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:08:05Cameron Hanes?

  I'm glad you're still a runner.

• 1:08:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:08Speaker 02

  One more?

• 1:08:11Cameron Hanes?

  One more.

• 1:08:12Speaker 02

  One more? Okay.

• 1:08:13Cameron Hanes?

  Better be a good one.

• 1:08:14Speaker 02

  Okay, hold on.

• 1:08:15Speaker 01

  I got pre-check, you're fine.

• 1:08:17Cameron Hanes?

  I don't want her to me, I don't want her to miss her flight.

• 1:08:19Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 1:08:20Cameron Hanes?

  She's got the Beer Mile World Championships tomorrow.

• 1:08:23Speaker 01

  It's not the Worlds, but.

• 1:08:24Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, whatever.

• 1:08:31Speaker 01

  Better be good.

• 1:08:32Speaker 02

  I know. All right.

• 1:08:38Speaker 02

  What do you want your legacy to be?

• 1:08:43Speaker 01

  Hmm, that is a, that's a hard one.

• 1:08:45Cameron Hanes?

  Cloche. As a cop out. You know how many stupid podcasts ask that question? I want another one.

• 1:08:54Speaker 02

  Okay. Who is Shelby?

• 1:08:58Cameron Hanes?

  Who is Shelby? Okay.

• 1:09:00Speaker 01

  That's, yeah, all right, all right, um.

• 1:09:06Speaker 01

  Gosh, I don't even like.

• 1:09:12Speaker 01

  I think Shelby is a

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  very resilient, persistent, gritty, but also like super positive, bubbly, yes, person down for any challenge, spontaneous.

• 1:09:30Cameron Hanes?

  Fun.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  Fun. Yeah, I think.

• 1:09:35Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:09:37Speaker 01

  Kind, thoughtful, um. Respectful. I think those. I don't, yeah, that was a lot of adjectives, but.

• 1:09:47Cameron Hanes?

  That sounds like a good person.

• 1:09:48Speaker 01

  You know, well rounded, you know, I think that that might sum it up. Maybe I'm missing something.

• 1:09:54Cameron Hanes?

  Sounds like a good person to me.

• 1:09:56Speaker 01

  Appreciate that.

• 1:09:57Cameron Hanes?

  Did you say bow hunter?

• 1:09:59Speaker 01

  Bow hunter. Not even a runner anymore. I'm just a bow hunter.

• 1:10:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, there you go. All right. Well, now we're on the same page. Well, good job, guys, on the peanut gallery questions. Thank you. Thank you, Shelby.

• 1:10:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:10:13Cameron Hanes?

  You're a badass. I'm glad to call, happy to call you a friend.

• 1:10:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, I appreciate you having me out. It's been such a fun, like, two days. I keep wanting to say weekend, but it's like Thursday and Friday.

• 1:10:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:24Speaker 01

  Um, but no, I really appreciate you having me out. It's been fun to talk to you and get to know you and have tattoos with you now.

• 1:10:31Cameron Hanes?

  I know. I love it. Thank you. Appreciate you coming out and, uh, yeah, keep kicking ass.

• 1:10:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, thank you.

• 1:10:37Cameron Hanes?

  All right, guys, keep hammering.