#721 Paying Bitcoin Dividend To Miami Citizens w/ Patrick Stanley and Muneeb Ali

Dr Muneeb Ali is the co-founder of Stacks, a platform to build smart contracts on top of Bitcoin. Patrick Stanley is the founder and CEO of Freehold and the Community Lead of CityCoins, a new product that allows you to support your favorite cities while earning yield in Bitcoin. In this conversation, we discuss bitcoin, Stacks, CityCoins, bitcoin yield, bitcoin dividends, and Miami’s plan to pay citizens in bitcoin. =======================

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone, this is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Dr. Muneeb Ballee is the co-founder of Stacks, a platform to build smart contracts on top of Bitcoin. Patrick Stanley is the founder and CEO of CityCoins, a new product that allows you to support your favorite cities while earning yield in Bitcoin. In this conversation, we discuss Bitcoin, Stacks, CityCoins, Bitcoin yield, Bitcoin dividends, and Miami's plan to pay citizens in Bitcoin. I really enjoyed the conversation with both Muneeb and with Patrick. I hope you enjoy this as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to tell you about a new effort we have to help people get jobs. Are you looking

• 0:45Anthony Pompliano?

  to transition from working in the legacy tech or finance industry? Are you looking to work in the new industry, Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies? If so, we have two specific products that can get you right so you can get a new job. The first one is you can go to pompcryptojobs.com. It's a job board. It's completely free. All you do is you go there and there are hundreds of open roles from the industry's leading companies and you just apply. We've already processed nearly 100,000 applications of people trying to switch over and companies have hired a ton of new employees, including one company that has hired more than 35 people off of the job board. So go to pompcryptojobs.com today and you can apply for a new job. The second product we have is a training program.

• 1:30Anthony Pompliano?

  You can go to pompscryptocourse.com and at that training program, you come in, it's a three-week intensive program. We run you through all the basics of the industry and then we hand you off to the HR teams at the industry's leading companies. Tons of people have been hired coming out of there, everyone from Coinbase, Gemini, Kraken, Strike, BTC Inc., and many, many more. So if you're looking to get a little bit more training and want to get the certification before you start applying for jobs, go to pompscryptocourse.com. All right, let's get into this episode with Muneeb and with Patrick. I hope you enjoy

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 2:28Anthony Pompliano?

  All right, we've got Muneeb and Patrick here with us. We're going to try to wrap our heads here around what exactly is going on. How are you guys?

• 2:34Speaker 02

  Good. How are you?

• 2:35Anthony Pompliano?

  I'm doing fantastic. I appreciate you guys both jumping on. I know that for Patrick, at least, it's early over there. So, thank you.

• 2:42Speaker 02

  I know, it's all good.

• 2:43Anthony Pompliano?

  Maybe what we can start with is Muneeb, we'll start with you in terms of stacks and smart contracts on top of Bitcoin. I think the first question that people have is just like, why is it important to bring this functionality to Bitcoin? And then how exactly does it technically work from an architecture standpoint?

• 3:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think the way to think about this is Bitcoin is decentralized money and it is amazing. I think it's just going to change the world. And right now, if you look at the use case of Bitcoin, people are mostly like either buying and holding it, or they're trading Bitcoin on centralized exchanges. And the next evolution of this is when you can actually do really interesting things with Bitcoin in a completely decentralized way. Imagine that you could trade Bitcoin on decentralized exchanges, you could participate in lending protocols where you're lending in a completely trustless manner, earning interest on your Bitcoin, you can put up your Bitcoin as collateral, and you can start building all sorts of interesting decentralized applications that are using Bitcoin as a

• 3:42Speaker 03

  settlement layer. So I think Bitcoin as sound money is the first step. Deploying that Bitcoin, making it productive, deploying it into smart contracts and decentralized finance, that's step number two. And then the last step is the use of Bitcoin as a settlement layer. I think it's a global settlement layer. You want the world trade to settle on Bitcoin. You want all important information on the planet to settle on Bitcoin eventually. And the smart contracts for Bitcoin are a critical piece for enabling step two and step three. I think we're on step one right now, and we really want to get to step two and step three.

• 4:18Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And when you talk about the kind of technical architecture, explain how this works. Cause I think that when people hear smart contracts on Bitcoin, I see a bunch of people debating, is it on Bitcoin? Is it a sidechain of Bitcoin? Is it whatever? Frankly, I don't know how much important is the nomenclature as much as just like, how does it work?

• 4:37Speaker 03

  Yes, I think the simplest mental model for this is you want the Bitcoin base layer to be very simple, very durable. You don't want it to change. You don't want it to be very complex, right? You can look at some of the other alternative blockchains out there like Ethereum and others, and they decided to make their base blockchain very complex with smart contracts. And that comes with a bigger security attack vector. So the way Bitcoin works is the base layer is not going to change. It's very simple. So it's almost like a two-layered solution. So the base layer is Bitcoin's decentralized money. And then you add some sort of additional layer on top that brings smart contracts. And I think that's where people get into all sorts of different solutions. Is it a sidechain? Is it like an L2?

• 5:20Speaker 03

  I think without getting into the technical details, what Stacks really does is that it tries to enable fully expressive smart contracts for Bitcoin, meaning that anything you can build on Ethereum or anywhere else, you can build that in the Bitcoin ecosystem now. And developers are, this is something that is really resonating with developers because they see the trillion dollars in capital that is just sitting there with Bitcoin and they want to come and build applications on top.

• 5:44Anthony Pompliano?

  And can you give us just some high level stats on like, how many people are actually building in the ecosystem?

• 5:50Speaker 03

  Yes. So I think, so over the past like six, seven months or so, as Stacks only went live this year, we now have, I think, 1,300 something smart contracts published on the blockchain, the 10x effectively in the last three months or so. And there are organic things happening like Bitcoin NFTs, like that caught me by surprise. There are something like three or four organic marketplaces that emerge for NFTs. If people are familiar with OpenSea and marketplaces like that on Ethereum. So that's already happening in Bitcoin. And there are so many artists, there are so many developers who are coming in and basically launching all sorts of different applications. I believe there are more than 30 startups now in the ecosystem.

• 6:32Speaker 03

  And these startups are building things like stable coins, lending protocols, like you name it, right? Like it's a really like exciting time to be around for the smart contract space in Bitcoin.

• 6:42Anthony Pompliano?

  And so, Patrick, let's talk about what's going on in Miami first, and then we will talk about New York. And maybe what I'll do is I'll play devil's advocate. I tried to get one or two folks to come on the, we're asking you a bunch of questions yesterday. And as one of them said to me kindly, he said, hey, man, I got a job. Can we do this at night? And I was like, well, I can't really do the show. But so I think I've got most of their questions in terms of like what people are interested in. The first is, how is it that the city of Miami ends up with a treasury and then also earning Bitcoin yield? Like, how does that work from a technical standpoint or like an architecture standpoint?

• 7:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, happy to give the technical overview. First thing I just want to say is that Mayor Suarez just turned his city into like an oil producing country that yields Bitcoin. And I'll tell you how that happens. So when you mine city coins like Miami coin, 30% of the cryptocurrency that you're sending in to mine goes directly to the city. So you know, when you mine Bitcoin, you spend electricity. When you mine city coins, you spend cryptocurrency. That crypto just happens to be stacks, which happens to yield approximately 10% APY in Bitcoin. And that's a nominal yield.

• 8:01Speaker 02

  So the value of stacks goes up, the yield goes up commensurate to that. So when you're sending in those stacks, 30 to mine, 30% goes directly to the city's treasury. And that's why the city of Miami has almost $22 million worth of stacks after just three months of this protocol going live. Now, that number is just going to go up and up and up and up and up in terms of stats. And therefore, the amount of Bitcoin that that treasury can yield will also go go up as a function of stacks being added to the treasury, ongoingly just being added. So

• 8:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Okay.

• 8:35Speaker 02

  That treasury, yeah.

• 8:36Anthony Pompliano?

  So once you get that treasury there, and they are generating the Bitcoin yield, that is what Suarez in Miami is saying he is going to take the Bitcoin yield and he used a very specific term of a dividend. Right. He's basically going to give that to the citizens. Now, my understanding and what some of the questions were around is we don't have all the details, right? There isn't necessarily like, hey, here's exactly how this is going to work. But the high level appears to be that any citizen can come in. They can get any digital wallet, doesn't matter what company, what brand, you know, whoever built it, custodial, non custodial, the whole nine yards. They then will get some future to be determined amount of that Bitcoin. So the citizens are getting Bitcoin in a digital wallet that they control.

• 9:21Anthony Pompliano?

  It's not a city created digital wallet, like a Chivo wallet or anything like that. This is just off the shelf from the market. But it's a dividend. It's not the city going and buying Bitcoin in like the open market and turning around and like handing it to citizens.

• 9:35Speaker 02

  That's right. So that's right. So, you know, cities, the reason cities don't just buy simply buy Bitcoin is because taxpayers would be so incredibly mad at them if they did that. Cause they'd be, they'd be asking taxpayers for money out of their own pockets to get Bitcoin. What Suarez did with Miami coin is he added tax, he added non-tax revenue to, to the city that they can distribute to, to folks in terms of Bitcoin. Now, that's right. And in terms of like people using wallets, I believe the city is looking for the sort of best possible, you know, way to do this in a uniform, you know, kind of like sensible way.

• 10:18Speaker 02

  So like, I don't have all the details, they're going to determine that. But one thing I think actually could be really useful here is using lightning channels and getting the city set up on not just Bitcoin, but lightning and ongoingly sort of metering out Bitcoin.

• 10:33Anthony Pompliano?

  And how would that work?

• 10:34Speaker 02

  The city has to figure that out essentially. That's like, they're talking to folks from Lightning, from different Lightning sort of companies. And essentially what would happen is all the Bitcoin that's yielding from the city's SaaS treasury would go into a wallet that would set up, set up, you know, payment channels with all the sort of citizens, or maybe go into multiple wallets and be sent automatically. You could also do it without Lightning, but there's a lot of citizens and I'm sure Lightning would be helpful.

• 11:05Anthony Pompliano?

  So, for example, and I'm just going to use one that I, one I'm an investor in, but also two, I understand intimately and they've done a bunch of like PayMe and Bitcoin type stuff, is somebody could go, they could get a Strike Wallet and the city could use the Lightning network, take the Bitcoin that they've earned as part of that yield and then pay out to a user who has that Strike Wallet. And that's the way that the city would essentially be sending Bitcoin to a, you know, private citizen.

• 11:29Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can, I can chime in on the

• 11:31Anthony Pompliano?

  Go ahead.

• 11:31Speaker 03

  How this can work. So basically, think of this as, let's roughly call it a $20 million worth of treasury. With a 10% yield, you're talking about $2 million worth of Bitcoin projected. But this, this might actually, given, given that the donations, these are kind of donations coming into the treasury. So donations might keep going up, right? So it might be like a 50 million treasury, we don't know. We'll see how this turns out. But the yield is dependent on that. So let's call it's anywhere between $2 to $5 million in Bitcoin. Once you start looking at it as Bitcoin, in satoshis, that's actually a pretty large number, right? So you're, you're, because a single Bitcoin has like 100 million satoshis. So you're talking about a large number of Sats that are available for these citizens and you don't want to lose a lot of them in transaction fees, right?

• 12:15Speaker 03

  So the, the ideal way to do it is over Lightning. Like you help people set up Lightning channels. Imagine like the entire city government would have to understand Lightning. They would have to build up their own Lightning channels, which is super exciting. The amount of education, the Bitcoin education that happens over here. And then the people who onboard, not everyone's going to onboard, right? So it might seem like, okay, maybe $5 million worth of Bitcoin isn't a lot. A, it's a lot in Sats. B, not everyone is likely going to onboard. Only the people who actually go through. The learning journey of what Bitcoin is, what Lightning is, I, I, I think this thing is valuable and I want to get some. For me, the biggest benefit here is the learning journey. When, when people, they get their first satoshis, like in their wallet, they experience a payments rail

• 12:58Speaker 03

  uh that is fully decentralized, that is a new type of sound money. I think that's the thing that, that excites, excites me the most about, about what's going on in Miami.

• 13:07Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. And then Patrick, talk to me about New York. It seems like obviously there's this like uh competition going on now. I wrote this morning about, we've got four mayors across the United States that are all getting uh a portion of their salary paid in Bitcoin. We have Cool Valley, Missouri, uh Jason Stewart there, he's paying out um uh about a thousand dollars of Bitcoin to his citizens. Uh, the city of New York is now saying Eric Adams, hey, we're going all in on this stuff. Like, how do we become a leader in this space? So what's going on in New York?

• 13:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, so uh Eric Adams is watching what Suarez is doing and he's seeing a new model for a mayor. Right? So this is a mayor that makes out group arguments to pull uh talent and capital into their municipality, which is really smart. Most mayors don't even realize that this is uh, this is, this is uh essentially a game that's going on right now. They're essentially, most mayors are like asleep at the wheel in terms of like um uh how to be a mayor in the 21st century in this regard. And so Eric Adams uh is refusing to just uh be like your prototypical uh 20th century mayor. And he's looking to compete with, with Suarez. And so he saw Miami coin, he said, he saw he was doing well and he said he wanted to uh go in that direction. So the community decided to activate New York City coin.

• 14:18Speaker 02

  New York City coin now has $2 million in its treasury that is uh that they can do it with whatever they want. That $2 million can also be stacked or in Bitcoin. They could literally copy Suarez and you know, become that oil-producing country that gives a dividend to their citizens. But I think essentially you're, you're gonna see this, like this decade, you're gonna see tons of mayors competing for talent and capital, just like a CEO of a company would be. And the reason being, the reason for that is that um we are essentially living in like a default remote first world for information workers. So people are choosing cities like they're choosing products. And um and and so, you know, it, you know, you moved from New, I think, New York to Miami. Um, during the pandemic, you've never been happier.

• 15:03Speaker 02

  And you chose Miami like a product and you love Miami. So like, um, you know, City Coins is great too, just like a as an additional thing. Uh, as just like another way of voting, sort of, right? So like, you used to be able to vote with your ballot and uh with your feet. You voted with your feet to Miami. I don't watch your vote uh on the ballot, so I don't know if you're voting. But now you can vote with your coin. You can, the market can signal uh their approval or disapproval of um of essentially how capital is spent. And how the leadership performs. So if you, if you mine or buy or build on City Coins, you are committed to the city. Or sorry, if you, sorry, if you hold City Coins, you're committed to the city. If you mine, buy or build, you are bullish on city leadership. If you sell certain City Coins, you're bearish on city leadership.

• 15:47Anthony Pompliano?

  So let, let me ask this question. When you guys think about this, the, the number one thing I saw people asking was, what are the risks? Right? Obviously, this stuff is brand new. I think that there's uh kind of two different things that are uh going on here that are working in tandem. Right now, you guys are two separate organizations, so maybe I'll, maybe I'll start with you and then Patrick will come to you. Is just, when you think about the pros and the cons, what do you think is the most rational uh con argument? Or the biggest risk that you're like, yeah, you know what, like, we're aware of it and we're trying to either mitigate it? Or that's what people need to be aware of uh as they look at these systems?

• 16:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, I can, I, I can start. So I think the way to think about this is, for the longest time, even in the history of Bitcoin, uh, you would notice that the early Bitcoin developers, they would call Bitcoin an experiment, right? I, I think, you know, now it's almost been more than a decade and I think it's, it's maturing a lot. But if you look at the, the, the Stacks protocol, think of Stacks as a programming layer for Bitcoin. Stacks itself is a decentralized protocol, right? There's no company behind it. I think there are thirty plus companies that are contributing in various ways, building stuff. But it is an open source decentralized protocol, but compared to Bitcoin, it's relatively new, right? It only launched this year. The technology hasn't been kind of like uh tested as heavily as Bitcoin has been tested. And then some of the things that people are building on top, like the community.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  Driven uh city coins project, that is another layer on top. So I think people should treat these things as like very experimental, very innovative, very exciting, but experimental. And and in terms of the the the city, the city is kind of like getting a donation. They could like write it off like because the value of cryptocurrencies can go up or down. These are very volatile things. But I think at this point, like for for them, it's a donation, right? So the the the donation value might go down. That's that's a risk. Uh if they're if they're earning Bitcoin uh and the crypto markets kind of crash, the value of Bitcoin goes down, the value of like the the treasury goes down. That that's a risk, but I think the interesting thing here is that they're willing to engage, right? Patrick just mentioned uh some of the stats on on on the New York launch that the community just said.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  I I want to emphasize something here. The the two million dollars that he's talking about is over the past twenty four hours, maybe not even the past twenty four hours. There's so much interest and I don't even know like who these miners are like I'm not I'm not mining. But I saw that the so there's a threshold of miners, like a minimum number of miners who can come in and uh kind of like trigger the launch. That trigger was reached within three minutes. Within three minutes, basically, there were there was enough mining power to just trigger the launch of this thing. Over the last twenty four hours, you already have two million dollars in the in the treasury. That now the mayor has an incentive like by the time I think the the New York mayor actually takes office.

• 18:31Speaker 03

  Like who knows how much capital as donations is already sitting in the treasury and the community is just doing it. I think so there is something powerful in this concept. Of almost like onboarding cities uh to web three. Like I think we have seen cities onboard to web two when they made like the dot gov websites and they started thinking about how to offer city services on the internet. I think this is cities thinking about how do they operate, how do how do they communicate with their citizens and offer new type of services? By making use of crypto protocols. And I think it's a very exciting new place where lots of experimentation would actually be a good thing.

• 19:07Anthony Pompliano?

  And then Patrick, what do you think about in terms of risks or or the biggest things that people have to think about how they're underwriting it?

• 19:14Speaker 02

  I think we've squared this thing like pretty pretty nicely. Um I think we need we need out outlay the sort of the risk. This is experimental.

• 19:25Speaker 02

  It's very mental, but I think the design is pretty good, honestly. And we're using, we're using, we're using a smart contracting language that Stacks and Algorand team sort of co-developed and worked on called Clarity. Just like, you know, if you were writing like nuclear grade smart contracts, like you're dealing with a lot of money, you'd use Clarity. And so, and we, we feel pretty good about it, honestly.

• 19:53Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it.

• 19:53Speaker 03

  One thing, one thing about Clarity is it's not a Turing complete language, which means that you can actually do formal verifications. You can actually be much more secure about what this program can and cannot do. And there's already a billion dollars locked up in a smart contract written in Clarity. Right? So at least there, there has been other types of capital that has been locked in, in these smart contracts. And then if other people are using it, you know, they can, they can learn from what, what has already been done.

• 20:21Anthony Pompliano?

  Got it. Joe, Joe, what questions do you guys have?

• 20:23Speaker 04

  Yeah. So we, we've seen Miami has obviously done this and they've accepted it and all of that in New York. We'll see what they end up doing when, when the new government officials take over. But my question is, how, how many cities can do this? Like in your guys' mind, how quickly will this go? How many more cities will adopt this? How will this look in, in 12, 24 months?

• 20:42Speaker 02

  I think, I think in two years, there's going to be over a hundred city coin cities. So every startup city is going to have a city coin. Every technologically progressive mayor of a city where there's a lot of demand from the community is going to have a city coin. And it just so happens, the two best mayors of the biggest cities in the United States have city coins and are technologically progressive. You know, David Sacks, David Sacks actually had a good tweet thread about this a couple of days ago. And he essentially, he was like quote tweeting Eric Adams' approval of New York City coin. And he said, you know, Suarez essentially had 18 months uninterrupted of being able to, being able to just like clean up and, you know, be, be the best mayor in the country.

• 21:28Speaker 02

  And now he's, he has a real competition with Eric Adams, who is, who has become one of the top 1% of mayors before he's even in office, just for merely being pro-tech and specifically pro crypto.

• 21:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, one, one way to think about this is it's a new type of a concept that anyone can adopt this concept, right? So think about NFTs, like once people understood or artists understood that, hey, NFTs are a thing. They can make NFTs, they can, they can, they can make, make use of them. So many artists around the world, they basically started using NFTs. And, and I think City Coins, the concept is a little bit like that for cities and mayors. So the technology is completely open source, is completely community driven. Anyone can decide to use the technology. And I don't think they need anyone's permission. So I, I, I think it's, it will, the, the adoption of the idea really depends on how powerful the idea is. How much is it, is it resonating with people? And how easy for, is it for them to get started, right?

• 22:27Speaker 03

  And, and in this case, like it's a completely permissionless system, completely community driven. So just like any artist in the world could decide that, hey, you know what? I'm going to make an NFT. Or here similarly, any, any city government on the planet could be like, I like this idea. I'm going to use the open source code and I'm going to start using it.

• 22:44Anthony Pompliano?

  John, what questions you got?

• 22:45Speaker 04

  Yeah, thank you guys for joining us today. This is an innovative project you guys are working on. But can you talk about it from the individual citizen level? Like, how do they participate in it? What can they expect to get? Like, what is their role in this situation?

• 22:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, so if you look at, uh, if you look at a municipality as a proxy for citizens, like they're, they represent citizens. They should be enriching citizens. The municipality gets 30% of all the mining proceeds, the, the, the crypto that's sent into the mining function, not City Coins themselves. So they're getting a bunch of stacks. So the city, the city, it's the city's job to make citizens healthy, happy and wealthy. That is like, that is the goal of, you know, if you're measuring state capacity, that's, those are the three things I think you're measuring. And so, uh, City Coins are just another way for, um, uh, cities to benefit their citizens.

• 23:36Speaker 02

  If they want to, uh, give it out like a crypto dividend, boom, the cities, the, the, the citizens are getting, uh, getting rewarded. Um, citizens can also take it a step further. They can, they can integrate, you know, Miami coin into point of sale. They can, uh, you know, local artists can, uh, mint with Miami coin or mint with any city coin, but they can mint with Miami coin. You can build applications, uh, that allow like voting, like DAO-like voting, uh, uh, sort of scenarios. And there's one that's, uh, getting announced at the end of the, the month that Miami is experimenting with. And this is like a demo app. But essentially, like, you know, you'd have like coin holders be able to like vote on specific agenda items that that the city proposes and is acceptable, finds acceptable and finds

• 24:21Speaker 02

  any of them acceptable. So and city coins are really accessible, you know, you can buy one mining coin for like two and a half cents right now. And you're gonna, you're gonna see. I think this decade, essentially, everyone's gonna become a stakeholder or an investor just out of accessibility and necessity. And I think, you know, you're gonna have, you have people for all walks of life, having a shared interest in the success of the city. So, yeah, you can, you can build, buy, mine, you can, you can, you know, trade, you can can benefit from it. They're just like, possibilities are kind of endless. Hope that answered your question.

• 24:58Anthony Pompliano?

  Yeah, and then to participate or to buy, for example, do they set up a wallet to do that?

• 25:03Speaker 02

  Yeah, so you set up a web wallet at hiro.s and just click to the sort of web wallet. And you can actually mine with that wallet. You can stack with that wallet to earn, to earn, to earn more crypto from your city coin. And you can use that wallet to receive city coins.

• 25:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Gotcha. Awesome, guys. Listen, I appreciate you guys taking the time to come on here. This is all moving incredibly fast. And I think that, you know, as I wrote this morning, I don't think anyone had on their 2021 bingo card that US City was going to pay people in Bitcoin. And when I saw the Cool Valley, Missouri thing, that was interesting, right? Because it was like a private contribution. And then they were gonna basically give a thousand dollars. No one could sell it for a pre-specified amount of time. This has the potential to have a very, much more sustainable thing, right? It's not kind of a fundraising that has to occur to be able to convert dollars into into Bitcoin or anything. So I think that there's still a ton of, ton of things need to be figured out, but it

• 26:09Anthony Pompliano?

  seems to be, to be working and people are obviously very excited about it. So I appreciate you guys coming on and explaining it, but also answering some questions in terms of, you know, what the risks are and how you guys think about the future work that you have to, to continue to do.

• 26:21Speaker 02

  Our pleasure. Thanks for having us on.

• 26:23Speaker 03

  Awesome. Thank you so much.

• 26:25Anthony Pompliano?

  Talk soon.