#2246 - James Fox

James Fox is a UFO investigator and documentary filmmaker. His new film, “The Program,” is available to stream now. https://geni.us/TheProgram Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:05Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Joe Rogan?

  It's a very good time to have a UFO expert in.

• 0:15Speaker 03

  A lot has been going on.

• 0:17Joe Rogan?

  This is, you know, I had, I know you ran into him, I had Ryan Graves on yesterday.

• 0:23Speaker 03

  Oh my God, I'll tell you the funniest story about how I ran into him.

• 0:25Joe Rogan?

  You ran into him in the lobby of the hotel, right?

• 0:27Speaker 03

  So, the lobby told me, they're all, "Don't use this one elevator, it's really rickety." And it makes a lot of noise, and it's just, it's not very reliable, and just don't use it, so I didn't. And then I was leaving, 24 hours later, I come down to get some coffee, and I was like, "Ah, fuck it, let me take the rickety elevator." I was like, "They told me not to take it, but I'm gonna take it anyway," so I pushed the button, I'm standing there, I hear this [makes a loud noise]. The door's open, I look, I see this shadowy figure in the corner, I'm like, "Ryan Graves? What are you doing?" He goes, "I don't know, what are you doing?" I was like, "Are you doing what I think you're doing?" He goes, "Yeah."

• 1:00Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious.

• 1:01Speaker 03

  Did he tell you that?

• 1:02Joe Rogan?

  Yes, he did, he told me he ran into you. He didn't tell me the whole story about the rickety elevator.

• 1:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, and he was like this shadowy figure up against the corner, like, kinda just, you know, looking at him, he was looking at me, it was really funny.

• 1:13Joe Rogan?

  We had a lot of, we talked a lot of nonsense about aliens, but we also talked about the technology that he knows is state of the art when it comes to drones.

• 1:22Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:23Joe Rogan?

  And that some of these ones in New Jersey, they're doing things that you can't really do yet.

• 1:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, which is really fascinating, because it's like, okay...

• 1:30Speaker 03

  And they're the size of SUVs.

• 1:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, so is it ours? And we somehow or another have some stuff that the mainstream drone manufacturers at the highest level aren't aware of yet? Is it ours? Is it like some crazy military stuff? Because if it's not, and it's coming from the ocean, like, what do you mean it's coming? What the fuck do you...

• 1:51Speaker 03

  Fifty of them.

• 1:52Joe Rogan?

  What do you mean? What do you mean, fifty suburban-sized...

• 1:57Speaker 03

  So, check this out, this is really funny. I've been working with this guy, we've been communicating on Signal for a long time. Actually, he was through Proton, he was emailing me stuff about Virginia, the UFO crash in Virginia, and, but he was anonymous. One day, I was like, he's really knowledgeable. And he was sending me stuff that was really helpful. Like, you should track down this flight, because if it happened, it was going to this airport, go to this base. And I was like, finally, one day, I was like, who are you? And how do you know what you know? He goes, I'm a retired United States Air Force Colonel. I was like, oh. And he goes, and I'm also an experiencer. I had an experience back in 1980, blah, blah.

• 2:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, what happened to him?

• 2:36Speaker 03

  He had a UFO encounter. It's in the movie, towards the end. But anyway, he texted me yesterday, and he goes, James, I really want you to explain to me how the hell you orchestrated a UAP invasion right around the time your film's coming out. I was like, I'd really like to know how you did that. I was like, I know I couldn't.

• 2:55Joe Rogan?

  Bro, do you know what kind of a budget you would have to have to have drones running in the sky all over? How many different cities are reporting it now? Like, what's the numbers?

• 3:04Speaker 03

  It's exploding all over, all over the place. And it's getting mitterer. I've heard California, I've heard Europe now, bases in England, New York, New Jersey.

• 3:13Joe Rogan?

  I've heard San Diego. I definitely, wasn't there something in Ohio, right? Wright-Patterson Air Force Base, they had to shut that place down.

• 3:21Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:21Joe Rogan?

  That's Ohio. So I've heard New Jersey. I think Florida, right? That was the one that Ryan Graves showed us a photo of. That was from Florida. So, like, who fucking? What's going on? Who fucking knows?

• 3:35Speaker 03

  I was super busy, you know, I had the release of the film going on. And so I was like, trying to focus on that and getting everything lined up. And it was a huge push. And all these text messages from all around the world are pouring in, like, what the hell's going on with these drones? And I was like, ah, it's probably something conventional. I'm not going to worry about it right now. I'm trying to keep on focusing what I got at hand here. And then I started getting more information coming in, more information. Then a buddy of mine called me, and he actually went to Brazil with me a couple of years ago. And he's like, bro, I live here. I'm seeing these things in the sky. I've seen them seven times now. They're the size of an SUV. I was like, well, what do they look like? What do they behave like? He's like, well, they're making noise. I was like, oh, okay. Well, that quickly kind of eliminates, you know, something non-conventional in terms of propulsion. But then I got reports of objects that didn't make any noise, and it would go silent.

• 4:18Joe Rogan?

  Did it say what kind of noise it was making?

• 4:20Speaker 03

  Like a, like a, like a, like a, like a propelled. ...drones would make, but loud and they're and they have, yeah, and they have a loiter, but they're big and they have a loiter time of hours. The average drone, like I fly drones for my films, is like, you're lucky to get 25 minutes. These things are there for hours.

• 4:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, five hours at a time.

• 4:38Speaker 03

  They go dark when they're approached by other, other objects. They're not getting picked up on fleer at times. And then some of them make, have no noise. I've heard crescent shaped. And then I heard about the ones that really got me because I contacted Christopher Mellon and was like, Chris, what is going on, buddy? I really rely on him for good information. And he's like, I really don't know, man. It's a real shit show. And the US government seems to be clueless right now. He goes, some of them are conventional, some of them are misidentified conventional crap, but there are other ones coming in off the ocean that are up to 50. The Coast Guard and Police Department are reporting that truly remain a mystery. And then you had Schumer at a press conference, just like it was yesterday. And then he's going, he's like, we don't know what they are. We don't know what they are. And the guy goes, yeah, so it's a UAP. He goes, well, the drones.

• 5:21Speaker 03

  He goes, well, you wrote the legislation. It's a UAP. It's unidentified anomalous phenomenon. Why don't you just use UAP? I think they're using the word drone because UAP is almost too scary. Like, someone's got invasions happening.

• 5:32Joe Rogan?

  That's what, UAP is unidentified anomalous phenomenon?

• 5:37Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:37Joe Rogan?

  So couldn't that be kind of anything? Doesn't even mean flying?

• 5:40Speaker 03

  Well, that's the thing, because it used to be unidentified aerial, well, it was UFO, unidentified flying object. Then it was UAP, unidentified aerial phenomenon. But then they're coming out of the water, right?

• 5:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I feel like this is nonsense. Why don't they just keep using UFO?

• 5:54Speaker 03

  Because it has, because people associate UFO with otherworldly and they, they wanted to take that, remove that baggage and make it a little less scary. That's my personal opinion.

• 6:02Joe Rogan?

  I kind of get that, but also it's just unidentified flying object. If we find out what it is, then it becomes an identified flying object. It doesn't necessarily mean it's alien.

• 6:14Speaker 03

  True, but like, think, think of the stealth bomber. People probably jumping, jumping out of their windows right now if they said UFOs are invading the East Coast. You remember World of Worlds?

• 6:21Joe Rogan?

  Right, that's true.

• 6:22Speaker 03

  People were like, jumping out of their windows.

• 6:25Joe Rogan?

  That's actually a very good point.

• 6:26Speaker 03

  So I think they toted out. I think they're using the word drone, even though they're unidentified, just because of the fear factor. I think the fear factor is real.

• 6:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I can't help but cringe when I hear that word.

• 6:36Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry. The, the fear element.

• 6:39Joe Rogan?

  It's so funny.

• 6:40Speaker 03

  Sorry.

• 6:41Joe Rogan?

  It was too much of a part of my life.

• 6:42Speaker 03

  Too close to home.

• 6:44Joe Rogan?

  So, when did they start? Like, what was, uh, when was it acknowledged that this was an issue that was reoccurring recently? Like, you know, uh, obviously, there's always been something in the sky. People have always seen things, who knows what they are, whether or not they're, you know, a lot of people see Starlink and they think it's UFOs, right?

• 6:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, of course.

• 7:00Joe Rogan?

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• 8:26Joe Rogan?

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• 8:49Joe Rogan?

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• 9:24Speaker 03

  Couple of weeks ago, maybe, maybe a month ago. That's when I started really hearing about it, but.

• 9:29Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, is there like, um, I have any sort of official answer to that?

• 9:33Speaker 03

  I have something that.

• 9:35Speaker 01

  20th, 19th, something like that. In mid November.

• 9:37Joe Rogan?

  Mid November.

• 9:38Speaker 03

  I have something that, uh, this is about an airbase in Vandenberg Air Force Base in 2003, and this is not an anonymous, but this is about incursions over, listen to this. I promised this individual that I met at Seoul conference. He's a witness. He's a military guy. My name is Jeffrey Nussetelli. I served 16 years in the United States Air Force as a technical sergeant and a military police officer.

• 10:06Speaker 03

  In October, 2003, my coworkers and I witnessed a series of extraordinary UAP incursions at Vandenberg Air Force Base in California. The initial event is known as the Vandenberg Red Square, and it was first mentioned during the historic UAP hearing, UAP hearing held in 2023. The case involved Boeing contractors who witnessed a huge red square shaped object, roughly the size of a football field hovering over a missile defense system. The object was silent and had no visible means of propulsion. The contractors watched in amazement as the massive object slowly drifted east and vanished over the hills.

• 10:47Speaker 03

  I retained official Air Force records of the event, including the blotter form entry, which includes the names and contact information of all the witnesses and provided it to select members of Congress, Arrow and the FBI. Arrow is a new UAP task force.

• 11:05Speaker 03

  All Domain Anomalous Resolution Office. After the initial event, several other UAP incursions took place at Vandenberg. I was on duty during many of the encounters, and I investigated the incidents as they unfolded. Now, remember, this is not anonymous reporting here. They include a football field-sized craft that terrified security guards as it silently hovered over a launch facility before flying off at an unbelievable rate of speed. A brightly illuminated silent object that landed on the base flight line before accelerating instantaneously and disappearing into space. A huge triangle-shaped craft larger than a C-130 that hovered 50 feet over a police

• 11:49Speaker 03

  officer before it drifted slowly over the base. A blue-white liquid orb roughly the size of his house that hovered over his house on the base. The objects made no sound and had zero obvious means of propulsion. And he says, "My experiences with UAP were all inspiring, exciting, and terrifying. I don't know why UAP are flying over our bases and our neighborhoods, but I do know the UAP phenomenon is of the utmost importance to all of humanity. I currently have five other military witnesses to the Vandenberg incursions that are all willing to testify tomorrow under oath that these statements are true. We need answers to this mystery and better government transparency.

• 12:33Speaker 03

  Thank you for the opportunity to share my story. Former United States Air Force Technical Sergeant and Witness Jeff Nusatelli." Crazy, right? I mean, we're talking objects the size of a football field.

• 12:44Joe Rogan?

  That's bananas. And then they take off insanely fast, just like the Tic Tac.

• 12:49Speaker 03

  Straight up into space.

• 12:50Joe Rogan?

  So, this was, what was the exact date of this?

• 12:54Speaker 03

  This was 2003. There was a number of incursions during that year, up all the way into 2005. And he has the names, and they submitted it to the new head of Arrow.

• 13:03Joe Rogan?

  That's interesting, because that coincides with the Tic Tac.

• 13:05Speaker 03

  It does coincide with the Tic Tac.

• 13:07Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if it's like, you know, vacation season. You know? It's like every few years.

• 13:13Speaker 03

  Let's go check out what those guys are up to.

• 13:14Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean? Maybe it's like a real pain in the ass to get here. Maybe it's one of those things like you can go to Australia, but it's dude, it's a pain in the ass. It's 16 fucking hours on a plane. It's a long flight.

• 13:24Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh. I went to South Africa one time and that was like 22 hours. I was like, the plane's gonna run out of gas.

• 13:30Joe Rogan?

  That's exactly what I'm saying. It's like one of those things. It's like you can do it, but it's a pain in the ass. So maybe they only travel to earth every now and again.

• 13:38Speaker 03

  How could these incursions have been taking place and like here we are 20 years later and we're only now really starting to talk about them?

• 13:44Joe Rogan?

  I think the reason being is if you don't understand it and you can't protect people from it because it's so beyond our capabilities that if just describing it accurately removes all confidence that our government has everything under control. That's one, one reason why. And also, if you have no answers, you don't know what the hell it is.

• 14:04Speaker 03

  That's a very good point, yes.

• 14:05Joe Rogan?

  If you don't know what the hell it is, what are you even gonna say? Hey, there's something that came. We don't know what the fuck it is. It's as big as a football field, shot off into the sky. We have no idea. They'd be like, what do you mean? We have no idea. Hire somebody who understands this and then they'd be like, fire him. Get him out of office.

• 14:20Speaker 03

  I remember like 20 years ago, bright eyed, bushy tailed, totally naive, still bright, I mean, still, still naive. But I was meeting with a general and I said, God, it'd be so amazing. You know, this story is like so unifying and we had this kumbaya moment and we discovering that, you know, we're not alone in the universe and wouldn't that be amazing? And blah, blah, blah, the implications for all of humanity. And he's sat there almost chuckling at me.

• 14:45Speaker 03

  And he goes, looked at me and he goes, you, you got it all wrong, man. You know, you gotta see this through our lens. And I was like, through your lens? He goes, yeah, the military's perspective. I was like, okay, tell me. And I never thought about this before. You just mentioned it. He goes, okay, imagine this scenario. We sit there and we say, you know, my fellow Americans, it has been brought to our attention that there are craft of unknown origin whizzing around with impunity in our airspace. They exhibit a technology that's light years advanced from anything that we have. We don't know who they are, where they come from, what they want. Shall they turn to be hostile? We have no visible means of defense against them. Thank you and good night. You're fired.

• 15:23Joe Rogan?

  You're fired.

• 15:24Speaker 03

  You're fired. And someone like Trump will come along.

• 15:27Joe Rogan?

  I'll make a deal with the aliens.

• 15:29Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 15:29Joe Rogan?

  But you see that predicament, like, people always go, why the secrecy? Duh.

• 15:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, you have to have secrecy because you gotta imagine the job of a politician in general, right? Like, you have to pretend that you're gonna be able to handle situations that you well know you're not gonna be able to handle.

• 15:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 15:45Speaker 03

  You know, if you're running for president, you know that you're not gonna fix this economy, all right? Stop.

• 15:53Joe Rogan?

  Just stop.

• 15:53Speaker 03

  Everything's gonna be, I'm gonna wave the magic wand and it's all gonna be taken care of.

• 15:56Joe Rogan?

  You know you're not gonna implement electric cars over the, stop. Stop. Shut the fuck up. There's not enough batteries. So, if you're lying about all that, you're probably gonna lie about whether or not you can handle the alien threat. I will unite us. I will unite us as a planet so we can deal together with the aliens.

• 16:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 16:14Joe Rogan?

  Let's do it.

• 16:15Speaker 03

  All you have to do is just say some bullshit like that. And then someone probably bends his ear when he gets into office and is like, yeah.

• 16:19Joe Rogan?

  A good speaker, like a JD Vance, like a guy like that, very bright, young, energetic speaker, he could convince people he could talk to the aliens. He could convince people.

• 16:31Joe Rogan?

  He could convince people that he could unite us all.

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Have you, have you seen the program?

• 16:35Joe Rogan?

  No, I have not.

• 16:36Speaker 03

  Okay, so, there is...

• 16:38Joe Rogan?

  Explain it to everybody.

• 16:39Speaker 03

  Okay, so, the program, basically, it's funny because the last time I was on the show,

• 16:44Speaker 03

  we were talking about an alleged crash retrieval case that took place in Virginia, Brazil.

• 16:48Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 16:48Speaker 03

  In 1996.

• 16:49Joe Rogan?

  And your documentary on it, which is...

• 16:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, Moment of Contact.

• 16:51Joe Rogan?

  Amazing. Amazing documentary.

• 16:53Speaker 03

  So, we're talking about that, and I came off the heels of doing The Phenomenon, which touched a little bit on a potential crash retrieval program, but then it was like, then it was the crash retrieval over in Virginia, Brazil. And then, I got hyper-focused on that. And then I had, sort of, it was a personal journey for me was, okay... The elected officials, what do they know? And when did they know it? Do we have a crash retrieval program? That's what I set out to do. And then three months after I was on your show in April of 2023, the highest level intel officer, David Grush, testifies under oath that there is a crash retrieval program and that the government does have definitive proof that we're not alone. So he kind of opened the door for me.

• 17:36Speaker 03

  And a lot had happened since the release of the phenomenon. And moment of contact, there was all this legislation. There was the first congressional hearing. There was behind closed doors meetings with a number of intel officers and witnesses. And then you had the second congressional hearing, which was David Grush, which was absolutely phenomenal. I'm sure you saw that.

• 18:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  Right? And then just recently, just a couple of months ago, we had the third congressional hearing, which I actually, funny enough, got to attend. It was the first time in my 30 years investigating. I was actually sitting behind people while they were testifying under oath about legitimacy of the phenomenon as well as there's a crash retrieval program. I mean, people have to understand that feel like maybe these things aren't happening fast enough. Just a couple of years ago, they didn't even admit that the phenomenon is real. Now there's people testifying under oath that we have a crash retrieval program. So drip, drip, drip. Things are happening. They're not putting the genie back in the bottle.

• 18:38Joe Rogan?

  Do you wonder at all that you're being mind fucked? Do you wonder at all that this is a massive psyop? And this is all just to cover up some very advanced American weapons technology?

• 18:49Speaker 03

  I think it's a very good question. And here's why I don't believe that. Because I have done 30 years of field research, right? So I've gone to China, I've been to Russia. I've been to Australia and Africa, South America, Canada, Alaska, all across Europe, United States. And I've investigated close encounters of the third kind. And I would ask your audience, don't take it from me, but the United States Air Force investigated and categorized close encounters of the first, second, and third kind, right? During their official capacity, Project Blue, Project Sign, Project Grudge, Project Blue Book.

• 19:22Joe Rogan?

  Great fucking movie, by the way, if you have. Haven't seen it, folks. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. Probably the best alien invasion movie of all time.

• 19:29Speaker 03

  Dr. Heinecke has a cameo appearance in that film. Did you know that?

• 19:32Joe Rogan?

  I had heard that. I don't remember who he was, though, but wasn't the French guy? Didn't he?

• 19:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, Jacques Vallée.

• 19:37Joe Rogan?

  He's supposed to be Jacques Vallée.

• 19:38Speaker 03

  Jacques Vallée has a cameo. Well, there's a guy acting his part, but actually Dr. Jalen Heinecke, who's a scientific advisor to Project Blue Book all those years for the Air Force, actually has a cameo appearance, smoking a cigar during the encounter. And that's him.

• 19:52Joe Rogan?

  That's right, that's right. That's Dr. Heinecke, smoking a pipe.

• 19:54Speaker 03

  Smoking a pipe. And he, a lot of the cases write down to Richard Dreyfuss's face being burned by the UFO. Those came directly out of Project Blue Book files. Even the description of what the entities looked like. Close Encounters, again, Close Encounters of the Third Kind. This is the United States Air Force documenting this stuff.

• 20:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 03

  And he, and, and he took it directly out of Project Blue Book files and made a movie out of it. And as a little wink, wink, nudge, nudge, he has Dr. Heinecke have a cameo appearance in the movie.

• 20:21Joe Rogan?

  You know what?

• 20:21Speaker 03

  Most people don't know that.

• 20:23Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's a fantastic movie, too.

• 20:24Speaker 03

  It's a great movie.

• 20:25Joe Rogan?

  Because it's a movie that's filled with, it's not like standard UFOs land. Like, there's some play going on. There's some weirdness to the way they interact with us. That sort of is much more realistic in terms of like the things that people experience.

• 20:41Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 20:41Joe Rogan?

  They experience interactions, very strange interactions. And when they had those little orb-like things that were flying around the movie, that's all straight out of like.

• 20:49Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 20:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 20:50Speaker 03

  Oh, 100%. I remember I had a buddy of mine, he was a pilot over Europe in the 70s, and he used to come for family dinners and he was always talking about it. And I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, whatever. And then later we're all in the life.

• 20:59Joe Rogan?

  Foo fighters.

• 21:00Speaker 03

  When I started getting an interest in UFOs, I was like, Michael, tell me about that UFO encounter you had, that red orb. Because it was just like it was in The Close Encounters of the Third Kind, Steven Spielberg's movie. And I was like, ah, they took those files directly out of Project Blue Book files and right onto the big screen.

• 21:13Joe Rogan?

  That's what the Foo Fighters were, right?

• 21:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, Foo Fighters, too, they had little orbs.

• 21:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 21:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, little orbs.

• 21:18Joe Rogan?

  Fighter pilots are flying around, they're seeing these things with them.

• 21:21Speaker 03

  Well, let me ask you, um, and this is why that I don't think it's a psyop thing.

• 21:26Joe Rogan?

  I don't think it's a psyop either.

• 21:27Speaker 03

  Well, the reason why I don't is because, okay, I don't just believe Grush because he testified under oath and he's a high-level intelligence. That's very impressive. I believe crush because his claims align with my personal research in the field. Remember, I've investigated crash retrieval programs, crash retrieval cases, right? And so I was, I mean, I, when I put out moment of contact, well, actually, when I went in to to put out moment of contact, people were going, James, you just dropped one of the biggest, most successful UFO films. In terms of transcending the UFO community and penetrating a much broader, more mainstream audience. Are you sure you want to put out a documentary that deals with an alleged crash and live aliens walking around the town of Vargina, Brazil?

• 22:12Speaker 03

  Like, seriously, that's what you want to put out there? You you got access to like Larry, Harry Reid and all these intel insiders? And now you want to do that? You're going to tarnish your reputation. It's a bad.

• 22:23Joe Rogan?

  Who gave you that advice?

• 22:24Speaker 03

  A lot of people did. They were.

• 22:25Joe Rogan?

  I wish you called me. Well, you're like, James, you can handle it.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  You probably heard about moment of contact and then you thought, yeah, this sounds too crazy.

• 22:32Joe Rogan?

  No, I didn't.

• 22:32Speaker 03

  You watched it.

• 22:33Joe Rogan?

  No, I thought, well, I always think a crash and contact sounds crazy.

• 22:38Speaker 03

  I know, and it does.

• 22:39Joe Rogan?

  I always think that, but I would have never told you not to do it.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 22:42Joe Rogan?

  I would have never told you not to do it. You're really good at this. You know how to like, you're really good at like explaining.

• 22:47Speaker 03

  But you look at half the town talking about it, including the mayor.

• 22:50Joe Rogan?

  That's an incredible story. It's an incredible story.

• 22:52Speaker 03

  It's a phenomenal story.

• 22:52Joe Rogan?

  It's one of those stories where you're like, if everybody's in on this, this is crazy. If everybody's telling and no one, there's not one contrarian that comes out and goes, they all told me to lie. I'm not fucking lying. This is stupid. They're doing it for tourism. Not one person? Come on. There's always some hater. There's always some hater wants to ruin your gag.

• 23:09Speaker 03

  I remember.

• 23:10Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 23:11Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, no, I totally do. I remember when I was making moment of contact and I wasn't done with it yet. Lou Elizondo was like, he's like, James, he called me up. He goes, I need a copy. I was like, the film's not done. I don't care. I need a copy. Give me a rough cut. I don't care. I was like, okay, okay. What's the urgency? And he's like, you don't understand who's watching this right now. So I was like, okay, so I'm giving him copies and I had absolutely no idea ever in a hundred million years that I think we're going to be having months after the release of moment of contact, a congressional hearing under oath that was a crash retrieval program.

• 23:43Joe Rogan?

  What year did Moment of Contact come out?

• 23:46Speaker 03

  It came out at the end of 2022.

• 23:48Joe Rogan?

  Do you think Biden watched it? Do you think he sat down with Biden? That would have been wild.

• 23:53Speaker 03

  You know, he's been so dismissive at all. Like, you know, Obama said a lot more about it.

• 23:58Joe Rogan?

  You know why? Because he's already in space. He's in space right now.

• 24:02Speaker 03

  He's like, go talk to Obama.

• 24:04Joe Rogan?

  He's in orbit right now around Saturn.

• 24:06Speaker 03

  Really? That's the best you can do?

• 24:07Joe Rogan?

  He's like Dr. Manhattan. He's on the moon in a glass house.

• 24:10Speaker 03

  Okay, let's see. If Biden, if you're listening right now, you have nothing to lose.

• 24:14Joe Rogan?

  Sir, you're the President of the United States, sir. Release the hounds.

• 24:16Speaker 03

  He's never running ever again.

• 24:18Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 24:18Speaker 03

  He's not running for a second term. You're, it's, come on, we're done.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  He's already pardoned more human beings than any president ever, other than Carter.

• 24:27Speaker 03

  Listen to the advice at the end of the program by Senator Harry Reid, who's now the late Senator Harry Reid. And I said to him, what advice would you give the President? It could have been any President at the time. And he said, don't be afraid of tarnishing your legacy by addressing this issue head on. And I hope that Biden gets to see that. And I really hope that President-elect Donald Trump gets to see that. People are ready for the truth. They've had enough of the lying. I think we're way beyond that at this point.

• 24:57Joe Rogan?

  I agree with you. However, when I confronted Mr. Trump, he was very cagey.

• 25:03Speaker 03

  Was he really?

• 25:03Joe Rogan?

  Very cagey. I've seen some things. They told me some things. He didn't tell me shit. He basically, it was basically like neither confirmed nor denied. No, there was no eyes. I don't do that shit. Especially to a pro like Donald Trump. Like, you're not, yeah, yeah. You're gonna do it to an actor, so shut up. You're not gonna know what the fuck they think.

• 25:22Speaker 03

  So just poke a face.

• 25:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Daniel Day-Lewis told you that he just ate a baby, you'd fucking believe him. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Like, this idea that, like, what do his eyes tell you? What do his eyes tell you? It depends on the person. Depends on the person. If it's your regular crackpot and they tell you a lie, like, something's up. But there's people that can hide things. They can hide things behind their eyes. I think he knows something. I don't think he's that interested. I think he's more interested, I think he's a sort of a no-nonsense type of guy. That's, this is why. You kind of have to be to be managing multiple businesses simultaneously, right? And he's always done that his whole career, right? Managed being on The Apprentice while running these golf courses, while having these buildings, apartment buildings, hotels. He's constantly doing something, right?

• 26:05Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 26:05Joe Rogan?

  So while he's doing all that, and he's playing golf, while he's doing all that. There's, there's no time for fucking aliens, man. There's no time for nonsense. There's no time for sitting around with your buddies, you know, smoking a cigar going, what do you think, man? I mean, if they fucking, if I was them, man, I would do what they're doing. You know, I wouldn't even, there's no time for that nonsense talk. That guy's got businesses.

• 26:27Speaker 03

  But we got objects of unknown origin, flying over residential areas, flying over military bases, flying over nuclear silos.

• 26:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, now I think he's much more interested because.

• 26:37Speaker 03

  That's a matter of national security. I mean, people are freaking out, like, what the hell are we seeing? And they're going, we don't know what they are, but everything's fine. Totally safe, there's no, there's no national security issue here. We don't know what they are, but you're fine, don't worry about it. You remember, um, what was the Steven Spielberg movie with the shark, the great white shark?

• 26:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Jaws.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Jaws, you remember when they're like, everything's fine.

• 26:58Joe Rogan?

  The mayor, the mayor's like, keep swimming.

• 27:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, keep swimming, the water's fine. Everyone would say people are getting bitten halfway.

• 27:03Joe Rogan?

  That's the perfect analogy. Dude, that is the perfect analogy. That is it.

• 27:09Speaker 03

  Everything's fine, go about your lives.

• 27:12Joe Rogan?

  They're definitely not nuke sniffing drones. Come on, nuke sniffing drones. So what if some nuclear material was just stolen?

• 27:20Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 27:20Joe Rogan?

  Off a cargo ship, whatever, whatever, guys.

• 27:24Speaker 03

  All the, all the online conspiracy stuff is, is crazy and I get a lot of it because obviously what I do.

• 27:29Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 27:29Speaker 03

  And people said to me all kinds of stuff. I was like, well, hang on a second, I wish I could put boots on the ground, but, but no, that's, there's something really weird going on. And the fact that they don't know, or they're claiming that they don't know what it is. And here's another really funny thing. I actually, in the, in the program that I did now, and I hope you get a chance to watch it because it's crazy. It's got.

• 27:49Joe Rogan?

  Tell people what it is.

• 27:50Speaker 03

  Okay, so basically I was talking to you about earlier.

• 27:53Joe Rogan?

  Tell people the title, the whole thing.

• 27:54Speaker 03

  It's called The Program. It's gonna be on, it's on, it just came out, it's at number one right now, it's on Amazon.

• 28:00Joe Rogan?

  When did it come out?

• 28:00Speaker 03

  Yesterday.

• 28:01Joe Rogan?

  Oh, beautiful.

• 28:01Speaker 03

  I know. So, uh, so it came out yesterday, it's on Amazon, it's on, uh, Apple TV and you can Google the, because the algorithms are just starting to catch up with it on Google right now. Because everyone's like, I can't find it. Look up The Program and then Google James Fox UFO documentary, The Program. You will 100% find it. It's being also made, uh, available internationally. They're working as fast as they can to get it up. It just went up yesterday. It's the most independent film from start to finish that I've ever made. And it covers. What happened, because everybody thinks the government suddenly had this epiphany, decide to be more transparent with the general public. That's not what happened. What happened is, there were a couple of intel insiders in the Pentagon reviewing

• 28:44Speaker 03

  some of this classified data, or so-called classified data, and resigned in protest of excessive secrecy. They found a loophole. This is Lou, probably Jay Stratton, I don't know for sure, definitely Chris Mellon, and they walked these evidence tapes out of the Pentagon through this loophole, they bent the rules a little bit, and onto the front page of the New York Times, right? So that happened, and it got, it was just, it was exploded, you remember that. And since then, there has been this unprecedented push by a bipartisan group of lawmakers to find out what the intelligence agencies

• 29:25Speaker 03

  know, and when they knew it. And, and so that started happening behind the scenes, right? So it was 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, and then in 2022, they were like, we're having a congressional hearing. Congressman Andre Carson, I think he's of Wisconsin, but I'm not positive, he put on, he spearheaded the first open congressional hearing, public open congressional hearing. And in that congressional hearing, they acknowledged the fact that the phenomenon was real, it was slowly introduced, that we were not getting told the facts. There was a document that came out called the Wilson Davis Memo, and that was about the discovery by a former DIA guy, Admiral Wilson, of the crash retrieval program that

• 30:10Speaker 03

  was like maybe 20, 20-plus years ago. And none of the names or anything in that document were redacted. I covered that memo in the film. And then, 2023, another congressional hearing, this time it was David Grush talking about the crash retrieval program. It's been a steady progression. And so a lot has gone on between 2017 and 2024, and that is what this film does, is it covers behind-the-scenes effort, bipartisan group of lawmakers' effort to find out what the intelligence agencies really know.

• 30:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, and people that were, you know, and in one of them, there was an encounter, and I think I remember you hearing about it. Because you wanted to get a hold of David Grush, and so you contacted me. And I actually had a drone up in the air in England. I know. And I had my phone attached to my drone thing, because that's what it was using as a controller for the screen. And I'm flying the drone, and there was a huge windmill, and I saw this windmill, and I was like, "Oh, that's gonna make a beautiful shot for the movie." And it is in the movie. So I'm up there flying it, and the wind, the turbines are going right.

• 31:14Joe Rogan?

  This episode is brought to you by Squarespace. If you're thinking about building a website, you should try Squarespace. I know, because I use it. That's right, JoeRogan.com is powered by Squarespace. It has all the features that you need to create a standout website, like an AI-enhanced website builder, SEO optimization tools, and seamless checkouts with mobile pay links. Head to Squarespace.com/Rogan for a free trial, and when you are ready to launch, use the offer code ROGEN to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. All your favorite NBA players are back, and DraftKings Sportsbook, an official sports

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• 32:35Speaker 04

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• 32:58Speaker 03

  And round and I can't quite tell how close my drone is to him.

• 33:02Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 33:02Speaker 03

  So I'm paying really good attention and I'm getting close to these big turbines and all of a sudden my phone's ringing and it's you. I'm like, oh my God, I, I can't not answer this. I gotta answer. So I answered it while my drone was up there.

• 33:15Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 33:15Speaker 03

  And we talked briefly and you said, hey, can you get me in touch with, with David Grush? I said, yeah, I got a guy that can put you in touch with. That was Jason Sands. And I guess you and Jason Sands talked about this alleged encounter in 1994 with this entity, alien, whatever you wanna call him.

• 33:29Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 33:29Speaker 03

  In the desert.

• 33:30Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 33:30Speaker 03

  So that was crazy story.

• 33:32Joe Rogan?

  Crazy story.

• 33:33Speaker 03

  But in any case, so when you watch the movie in the program, you'll see the drone flying dangerously close to these and that's funny little inside thing.

• 33:40Joe Rogan?

  So it didn't crash?

• 33:41Speaker 03

  Didn't crash, but I was on the phone with you when it happened. But when you watch the footage, it's like, wow, that's really close.

• 33:46Joe Rogan?

  Is that guy public with that story?

• 33:48Speaker 03

  He, well, so.

• 33:50Joe Rogan?

  Cause otherwise I would discuss it.

• 33:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, uh.

• 33:52Joe Rogan?

  Cause it sounded so nutty.

• 33:54Speaker 03

  No, no, yeah. Okay. So here's what happened. This, this is funny because um, when I was in Washington DC with Melon and, and this gentleman, uh, Jason Sands, I'm using his name now. And Melon looked at me and he goes, this guy's story is pretty wild. I was like, what do you mean? He goes, really wild. And we're sitting down, having dinner and Chris Melon orders, he orders a uh, he orders a drink. He had a um, tequila, so whatever. Anyway, and we were all having dinner and, and uh, Jason Sands starts telling the story about this alleged encounter in 1994. And it's one of the craziest stories and I've been doing this for 30 years and this story is nuts. Okay. You remember?

• 34:33Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 34:34Speaker 03

  So.

• 34:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he, I went like this to my phone when he was telling it to me like there was one.

• 34:37Speaker 03

  Yeah, me too. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Me too. So.

• 34:41Joe Rogan?

  It was one of those, wait, wait, what the fuck did you just say?

• 34:44Speaker 03

  Insane. Okay, so.

• 34:46Joe Rogan?

  Tell everybody what we said.

• 34:47Speaker 03

  Oh, I will. I'll get to that in one second. This is the reason why I can.

• 34:50Joe Rogan?

  Don't tease him.

• 34:50Speaker 03

  Well, this is the reason why I can discuss it publicly. I know. The reason why I can discuss it publicly is because he was gonna appear anonymously in the movie. And I was debating on exactly how to go about doing this because. I was torn because you got a statement from an individual, you don't have his identity. But I was in DC, I put the whole thing down and I said, look, if it didn't. He was worried about his security. He was a whistleblower. He'd already testified to a number of Senate intel committees, Senate Armed Services Committee.

• 35:18Joe Rogan?

  And all about the UFO phenomenon?

• 35:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, about the UFO phenomenon. They're part of the UFO, UOP task force. They found him and he was giving them information and reporting on things. And so he goes, I'm really fearful. I don't know if this witness protection program is going to be that helpful. I'm just, I'm worried. I said, look, if you're concerned about the story getting out or not getting out, if you want, I'm here, you can come to our studio, we could film you on camera. If anything happens to you, it could be released and it could be a little insurance policy for yourself. He goes, that sounds great, let's do it. So I did a whole film about it. And then I'm periodically posting clips or just still frames and updates on the movie as I'm making it, as I do on social media. And I posted this one scene and it had a clipboard on, in the scene. And on that clipboard, if you zoomed right in, it had his name.

• 36:04Speaker 03

  So I posted the, by accident, I posted the damn thing and my phone starts blowing up 10 minutes later. You just revealed this guy. What are you doing? Take it down, take it down, take it out. Too late, too late. So it was out there and he's getting all kinds of heat. So as a result of it, I'm giving the truncated version. He basically had to go through the Dobser process, which is basically pre-publication of authorization of what you can and cannot say. Excuse me. So he basically could talk about a number of cases that were in the film. We had to blurb out one particular word, which in the movie it's blurred out. We had to do that. That was Dobser. So it was the winter of 1994.

• 36:47Speaker 03

  There was a unidentified flying object that was picked up on the base.

• 36:53Joe Rogan?

  Old school UFO.

• 36:55Speaker 03

  Oh, yes, sir. Old school. It was a UFO. It was picked up on the base and it was recorded by sensory data and it was picked up on camera. It had camera footage of it from different locations.

• 37:05Joe Rogan?

  What did it look like?

• 37:06Speaker 03

  It looked like, it was weird shaped. It was like unusual shape and there's people talking about it. It's in the movie. And uh.

• 37:14Joe Rogan?

  The film is in the movie?

• 37:15Speaker 03

  The, the film footage that leaked from the base is in the movie.

• 37:17Joe Rogan?

  So you could see what it looks like flying around?

• 37:19Speaker 03

  Kind of, yeah. It's, it's kind of blurry in some spots and, yeah, you'll see it. So, uh.

• 37:24Joe Rogan?

  It's in the program.

• 37:25Speaker 03

  It's in the program, yeah. And then you hear all the voices. I actually had the voices cleaned up. You can hear people talking about, what the hell is it?

• 37:30Joe Rogan?

  Is there a clip we could see online?

• 37:33Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 37:33Joe Rogan?

  Just so I could show people what it looks like?

• 37:35Speaker 03

  Um, damn, I'm sorry, uh.

• 37:38Joe Rogan?

  Could you maybe just say the actual name of the incident? Maybe Jamie can find it?

• 37:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, try and find it. It's, uh, Nellis Test Range UFO 1994. See if you can find it.

• 37:49Joe Rogan?

  People put stuff up so quick.

• 37:50Speaker 03

  It's long and it's really bad. Yeah, true. Good point.

• 37:52Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's on Amazon right now. People put clips up so fast.

• 37:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's true. Yeah, and there's other things on there. So in any case, so that, that, that video.

• 38:00Joe Rogan?

  There it is.

• 38:01Speaker 03

  Uh, that's terrible. It's, there's much better footage of it. Yeah, there's much better footage of it. It's in my movie. I had it cleaned up. But yeah, that's it, basically.

• 38:08Joe Rogan?

  Can I see it again?

• 38:11Joe Rogan?

  So that's what it looked like?

• 38:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, wait, the footage I have is, is way better than this. Yeah, that sometimes it's, so.

• 38:16Joe Rogan?

  So, what did it look, Jesus Christ, you know what that looks like, Jamie?

• 38:21Speaker 03

  Very weird shape.

• 38:22Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, you know what that looks like? That looks like, looks like Terrence Howard's creation. Doesn't it?

• 38:30Speaker 03

  It's weird.

• 38:30Joe Rogan?

  What is it, what does he call that again?

• 38:33Speaker 03

  But it was.

• 38:33Joe Rogan?

  Those things that lock together? Those, you know, the flying drone thing that he created? Lynch pins? Lynch pins. Yeah. Terrence Howard created this, uh, fascinating concept for, uh, like a drone where it's like propellers going all these different directions and they, they sync up and they link together. And, um, it looks like that.

• 38:58Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. So it's, anyway, so it's footage, people talking about it. What is it? We don't know. It's not, it's unidentified. And it flies around the base and that leaked. And the names of the, of the witnesses leaked. Three days later.

• 39:11Joe Rogan?

  Can you expla- uh, but I'm sorry to keep cutting you off, but could you just say what it did? Like how it moved?

• 39:16Speaker 03

  It just, it, it was like, it was, didn't have any visible means of propulsion. It didn't have any wings, it didn't have propellers. It just, just looked like a, like an object, a round sort of object, weird shape, almost like a helmet or something with things coming off of it. And it was just moving around the base and they, nobody, nobody, slow, slowly at a time.

• 39:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, this is the footage?

• 39:35Speaker 03

  Yep. That's it, that's exactly it. Yep.

• 39:38Joe Rogan?

  It's definitely not a big balloon?

• 39:40Speaker 03

  And you hear, no, you hear everybody talking about it. The audio that goes along with it, a- and I had it cleaned up, i- is, they're all talking like, then nobody knows what it is.

• 39:48Joe Rogan?

  So, uh, this is zoom, is this why it's moved around like that? They're trying to keep it in focus and they're zooming on it?

• 39:53Speaker 03

  It's all, uh, Mr. Sands explains all of that in, in the film, the program, he talks about it. So anyway, so this leaks, people's names, the witnesses leaks, and, um, uh, three days later, he's in a convoy. Gazoot type. He's in a convoy and it's early in the morning and there's three jeeps, trucks, jeeps, uh, in convoy on a dirt road, heading out in Ellis Test Range. And they see what looks like maybe somebody was involved in a plane crash, there's somebody that was struggling out in the middle of the desert. It was early in the morning, it was, you know, wintertime and they're looking at this individual like, oh my God, is that a per- that person, that, that individual needs some help. That, that individual looks like they need some help.

• 40:37Speaker 03

  They look cold, their skin had a slight blue tint to it. And they're looking at this gentleman and they're like, hey, stop the convoy, this person needs help, medical attention, maybe they had a plane crash and so we're gonna help this person out. And, uh, they pull, they, they pull the convoy over and this individual comes up, individual comes up to the car. Jason Sands gets out, gets out the right side of the door and as he's getting out, somebody in the truck screams, he's got no effing ears. And Jason says, he turns around and he looks at this guy. And he had the same kind of uniform that they had had on. But the uniform was just immaculate, like there wasn't any dust on it, no dust on the boots. And he was thinking to myself, well, that's weird. This guy's got no ears. This guy some kind of mutant?

• 41:22Speaker 03

  And he looks at him and he said his eyes were a lot bigger. It's all illustrated in the movie. And then he starts talking like, he said it was like a snake bite him and he was just paralyzed with fear. He was, it was really scary. What am I looking at? Is this a human? Is this a mutant? Is this an alien? What is this? And I starts talking to him in gibberish. But he said he started to understand, like telepathically, everything this, this person or entity, being, creature, alien, whatever you want to call it, was saying to him. And he was looking for some kind of metal. And he didn't know tantalium. And I, and Jason stands like, you know, I don't know, I don't have any, you mean, you mean titanium? He's like, no, tantalium or something.

• 42:05Speaker 03

  And this conversation goes on for, for a bit. And then the guy just wanders back off and gets into that little craft that looked very similar to what you just saw there. And flies away and he sort of stair stepped away. And everybody sort of came out of this comatose state and off, and off they went. And we have the names of the other military witnesses that were on duty during the encounter, the alleged encounter. People are going to criticize me because I'm reporting on a close encounter with the third guy. But this, Jason stands, says he's willing to do a, a lie detector test like public. He's willing to testify under oath that everything he's saying is true. We have a date, we have a location, and we have the names of the other on duty officers.

• 42:48Speaker 03

  So what I'm hoping is, despite the level of criticism I'm going to receive for reporting on this, is that other individuals that have more information on this are going to be inclined to come forward. I also met with people in the Senate Armed Service Committee, Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, sorry, in the, in the House. And they said, Jason Sands is who he says he is. He checks out. He is named previously classified or classified programs. He's identified. The guy's legit. His credentials check out. And so I opted to go ahead and report on it with the hope that more information will come out on it.

• 43:23Joe Rogan?

  Listen, man, it's, there's nothing wrong with reporting on a story like that. There's been a bunch of them. It's not a small number of these things where people have experienced these things. And imagine if it's true.

• 43:34Speaker 03

  If it's true, yeah.

• 43:35Joe Rogan?

  They're not all liars. I can't believe they're all liars.

• 43:37Speaker 03

  I had to, it's hard to imagine.

• 43:39Joe Rogan?

  But imagine being that person who had that experience and not have anybody believe you. Not only that, but it could actually ruin your reputation and your career to talk about this experience, which is the reality of it. And it's one of the things that stifled discourse on this until I think the New York Times really broke the ice. I think in 2017, when they published that, all of a sudden, serious people who were unwilling to talk about UFOs before, just for the ridicule.

• 44:05Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:06Joe Rogan?

  Now, you've got the Gimbel video, the Go Fast video, you've got fighter pilots, Commander David Fravor, you've got these people discussing these things openly and like, okay, this seems like something that a serious person can discuss now. And so then it's open. But actually meeting one and talking to, it's like the Vargenia story. Like when I told people, the cop picked it up and carried in the car and the cop died from-

• 44:28Speaker 03

  Manhandled it.

• 44:28Joe Rogan?

  Some horrible bacterial infection that they couldn't cure.

• 44:32Speaker 03

  He was rubbing himself down with rubbing alcohol, according to his family. Like, he was like, this is greasy stuff on my skin. And he was rubbing himself down and he had the stench smell, grease.

• 44:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 44:42Speaker 03

  And then I interviewed the doctors. There's a couple of, actually going back to Brazil next month. There were a couple of forensic pathologists that are willing to come forward that we're going to cover, kind of update the movie and re-release. So it's an ongoing investigation.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  Wouldn't that be the best protection from an alien planet's bacteria? If you had the most vicious bacteria on the surface of your skin? Right? Like, imagine, like, if you go to another planet and the way to mitigate the effects of viruses and bacteria on that planet is to have skin fluid that's like unbelievably toxic, like, anything that comes near you just gets cooked.

• 45:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, like a skunk.

• 45:17Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 45:18Speaker 03

  Have you ever had a skunk?

• 45:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, I had a skunk got my dog once.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  I, I checked out this guy's garbage one time, and he's like, hey, it's in my, it's in my garage, and he flipped up the thing and dropped it in there. So I like, I was like, kind of hungover, I was, we had a party the night before, and I went out to the garbage can, and I kind of heard like some rustling in the garbage can, but I didn't really think anything of it, and I like lifted up the thing, and then I heard some rustling again, so I reached out and I put my head down inside, and the skunk just turned and got me right in the face. Now, I held my breath, I held my breath, and I closed my eyes at the last second, and it went right through me. It penetrated my molecules. It was so powerful that it was paralyzing.

• 45:56Joe Rogan?

  Hmm.

• 45:57Speaker 03

  Absolutely paralyzing. Can you imagine? Just the smell, that's, that's, that's their way of defense, is just this stench that's just goes through your, goes through your body, like, just paralyzes you.

• 46:06Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 46:07Speaker 03

  Anyway.

• 46:08Joe Rogan?

  You got it in the mug, huh?

• 46:09Speaker 03

  I got it right in the face.

• 46:10Joe Rogan?

  Wow, how long did it take before you didn't stink?

• 46:12Speaker 03

  Probably two weeks.

• 46:14Joe Rogan?

  I was so intrigued, like, how long would that wait?

• 46:17Speaker 03

  It was several weeks, yeah, and I tried the, I tried the tomato, and I tried the baking soda, and I tried...

• 46:22Joe Rogan?

  I think they have special soap now, just for skunks. But when my dog got zapped, she got zapped in like, 1980? I think it was 1980, because I was living in Jamaica Plain, and she went out in the backyard, and I think she thought that it was our cat, because we had a cat that was black and white. And she just ran right up to that skunk, and it took her right, right in the side of her body. Like, she tried to turn away, but it got her all over her body. She was wet with skunk spate.

• 46:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, it's...

• 46:52Joe Rogan?

  It was so nasty. I had to take her inside, and I had to do it, because she was my dog. I was 13. I had to like, cover her with tomato juice and wash her down, and she still stunk. The whole house stunk.

• 47:05Speaker 03

  It's so funny, because I was getting ready for a road trip, this is a couple years ago, and, uh... And I I looked over and I was like, did we, did we walk Duke? It was like nine o'clock at night. We were exhausted. We packed everything up. They had the car ready to go for the next morning. And it's like, did we walk Duke? Did you walk Duke? Take Duke, our dog. So we died. I was like, ah, it's nine o'clock. I just let him outside and I hear him like. Roar, roar, roar, roar, roar.

• 47:27Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 47:28Speaker 03

  And he goes. Roar, roar. And I thought, oh, my God, he just got eaten. Somebody just ate him. I was like, oh, my gosh. I ran out there to look for him and he comes running in. He jumps in bed, covered in skunk.

• 47:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 47:38Speaker 03

  The whole house, like, it was so, so strong. It's unbelievable. That smell is just like.

• 47:45Joe Rogan?

  It's so incredible. And the way someone explains this to me, you know, like animals, like bloodhounds and bears, they have an insane sense of smell.

• 47:53Speaker 03

  God, like a hundred thousand times stronger than ours, right?

• 47:55Joe Rogan?

  But they can pick up parts per million the way we pick up skunk.

• 47:59Speaker 03

  Really?

• 47:59Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 48:00Speaker 03

  Oh, my God.

• 48:01Joe Rogan?

  So think about that. So if a skunk gets hit by a car like a mile away, you can smell it. Have you ever driven in your car?

• 48:08Speaker 03

  Yes, yes.

• 48:09Joe Rogan?

  I don't know if it's a mile, but.

• 48:09Speaker 03

  I could drive over it and then my car smells like it.

• 48:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, if you're in the, but if you're in the neighborhood where a skunk got something, you could smell it.

• 48:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 48:16Joe Rogan?

  For some strange reason, it permeates. It like, it carries more than any other smell. With dogs, that's how they smell everything. They're like, oh, Ross goes home. You know, like they can smell things that you can't even imagine they could smell, especially like a bloodhound. And then a bear can smell like, what is a bear's like ability to smell above a bloodhound? It's some, something, something crazy. My friend was, uh.

• 48:40Speaker 03

  Sharks in the, in the ocean can sense blood from miles away, right?

• 48:43Joe Rogan?

  Miles, miles.

• 48:44Speaker 03

  It's incredible.

• 48:44Joe Rogan?

  Insane, miles away. They could smell blood miles away.

• 48:49Speaker 03

  God, something, I, I remember.

• 48:51Joe Rogan?

  Look at this, three hundred times, look at this. This is crazy. Bears have the best sense of smell of any animal on earth. For example, average dog sense of smell is one hundred times better than a human's. A bloodhound's is three hundred times better. A bear's sense of smell is seven times than a bloodhound's or two thousand one hundred times better than a human's. Unbelievable.

• 49:11Speaker 03

  That's why they say when you go camping, put your food up in a tree or something, right?

• 49:14Joe Rogan?

  Oh, 100%, you have to.

• 49:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can't have it in the tent at all.

• 49:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, when I was a kid, we went camping and the, the bear broke open our cooler.

• 49:21Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 49:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, people just had regular coolers back then.

• 49:23Speaker 03

  You'd have like a little cookie in your pocket and be in bed, in your tent.

• 49:26Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 49:26Speaker 03

  You're gonna have, you're gonna have an issue.

• 49:28Joe Rogan?

  Oh, 100%, yeah.

• 49:29Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 49:30Joe Rogan?

  100%.

• 49:30Speaker 03

  I remember when I was a kid, I went camping and they were like, "Don't have any food." I was like, "Yeah, whatever." Like that, like, "No, no, no, put that stuff." And they were really adamant. I was like, "Why are these guys making such a fuss? The bear's not gonna smell a cookie in my pocket." Like, of course they will.

• 49:42Joe Rogan?

  They'll, they'll look at that like a wanton. Like, look at that soft outer layer and this meat inside of it. They're gonna look at that tent like, look, it's trapped in there.

• 49:50Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 49:51Joe Rogan?

  The meat is trapped in the tent. This is crazy.

• 49:53Speaker 03

  What was that one movie called where they got the, the grizzly man or something?

• 49:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, Grizzly Man. That's what it's called.

• 49:58Speaker 03

  And they came and got him. Remember they?

• 49:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a lot more than that.

• 50:01Speaker 03

  He thought he became one with the grizzlies and then he got eaten?

• 50:02Joe Rogan?

  It's a very complicated movie. Um, that's a Werner Herzog film.

• 50:05Speaker 03

  Yeah, Werner Herzog, yes.

• 50:06Joe Rogan?

  It's a really funny movie.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  And the camera was rolling.

• 50:09Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 50:09Speaker 03

  And they played it.

• 50:10Joe Rogan?

  Sort of. The camera was rolling, but the lens cap was on, so there was an audio.

• 50:14Speaker 03

  So it's just audio?

• 50:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 50:15Speaker 03

  That's even worse.

• 50:16Joe Rogan?

  The audio, by the way, folks, the audio you hear on the internet, that's fake.

• 50:19Speaker 03

  Oh, it is?

• 50:20Joe Rogan?

  That's not the real one. The real audio, Werner Herzog told the lady to destroy it.

• 50:24Speaker 03

  Destroy it. No one should hear this. So he heard it?

• 50:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he heard it. It's long, you know, because bears don't kill you, they eat you. You know, like a salmon. They don't kill salmon. They just put their paw down and start pulling chunks off of it. That's what they do with people, too.

• 50:39Speaker 03

  That's terrifying.

• 50:40Joe Rogan?

  Is that, well, they don't have any predators, so, uh, they don't have to kill things and then, you know, worry about someone taking it from them. You're not taking shit from a bear.

• 50:48Speaker 03

  Terrifying.

• 50:49Joe Rogan?

  Especially a grizzly bear. You're not taking shit from a bear, unless you're, you're a bigger bear. So, like, all the other animals have to worry. Like, mountain lions kill quick because wolves will steal from mountain lions. And apparently, in the areas where wolves have been introduced, it's actually become a problem because mountain lions are killing much more than they normally do. Because mountain lions will kill, like, a deer, two deer a week, something like that.

• 51:13Speaker 03

  And eat, they eat two deer a week? That's a lot of meat.

• 51:16Joe Rogan?

  Well, they're big, you know? A big mountain lion is, you know, 150 pounds. And they're, they're, it's a big cat. Their cats are just, they're obligate predators. All they eat is meat. You know, bears eat a little berries, they'll eat a bunch of shit, not cats. So the cats are, uh, killing more because the wolves scare the cats off of the kill. So if the cat's on a kill and a bunch of wolves show up, the cat will just get the fuck out of there like fuck this.

• 51:40Speaker 03

  Cause he feels he didn't wanna defend himself against the wolves?

• 51:42Joe Rogan?

  Exactly, cause wolves hunt in packs.

• 51:44Speaker 03

  Ah.

• 51:45Joe Rogan?

  So there might be thirteen, fourteen wolves and one cat, the cat will just get the fuck out of there. Cats run from dogs, right? Like they have a fear of like canines and I think it's from wolves stealing their food. So like that's how they hunt cats, the way they hunt them, you have to tree them. Because otherwise you're not gonna find, if you find a mountain lion.

• 52:04Speaker 03

  What do you mean by tree them?

• 52:05Joe Rogan?

  You have to get the, the dogs to bark them up a tree.

• 52:07Speaker 03

  Oh wow.

• 52:08Joe Rogan?

  They run up a tree and then they shoot them when they're in a tree.

• 52:10Speaker 03

  Oh shit.

• 52:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they, it sounds cruel, but listen, they have to do that to manage the populations. If they don't, they start eating dogs, they start, that's what you get in San Francisco. California still kills mountain lions. They'll, they kill as many mountain lions as they would if they gave tags out to people to kill them. Because you have to kill certain numbers of them for depredation. Because they'll start killing livestock, they'll start killing dogs. In the Bay Area, they, the, the problem cats that they wound up killing in like San Francisco and up there. Half their diet was pets.

• 52:43Speaker 03

  Really?

• 52:44Joe Rogan?

  Half their diet, half their diet was house cats.

• 52:46Speaker 03

  People's house, people's cats.

• 52:47Joe Rogan?

  Dogs and cats, that's half their diet, half of their diet. So you manage, you know, a hundred plus pound cat and he's running around just eating dogs. You leave your dog in your backyard, gone. Happens all the time.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 53:02Joe Rogan?

  It happened to my dog.

• 53:03Speaker 03

  Really?

• 53:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, my dog in Colorado got eaten by a mountain lion. It happens all.

• 53:08Speaker 03

  Oh god, I'd feel so bad for my little guy.

• 53:09Joe Rogan?

  It's terrible.

• 53:10Speaker 03

  I'm not there to protect my little feller. You know, one time I was, I was hiking up this mountain. And I had my son with me at the time and he was in that little pouch, you know, that little pouch that you put him in the front? Like he was like, probably like maybe two, two and a half? And I was hiking this mountain pretty daily, it's funny actually, cause when I went up there without him, I was like, well, this is why people hike with weights on. This feels amazing, I could run up this mountain. Anyway, I was going to the mountain and I had my dog, my little, little Duke, and I had my, my son. Walking up this mountain and uh, I come around this, like go left hand, it's a, it's a pretty exposed, not too many trees, some bushes. And it's a hot sunny day and I see this leg of a deer, like just fresh kill with blood on the ground.

• 53:51Speaker 03

  I was like, god damn, what the hell's, the hell looked, uh, wow, that's fresh. It's like huh. I kinda keep going and come around the corner and there's a long straightaway, the hill goes up like this. And I see what looks like a big like Greyhound dog, kinda like brown, light brown, kinda walking kinda back and forth like this with a tail. And I was like, man, who the hell's Greyhound is doing out here? Like, what the hell is, that's a mountain lion. I was like, holy shit. And the mountain lion turns around and looked at me, and I had my kid. I was like, shit, I, so I grabbed my dog and I turned around and I started running and I knew that I shouldn't be running. So I'm running going, I shouldn't be running,

• 54:34Speaker 03

  I shouldn't be running, I know I shouldn't be running, but I wanted to get around the corner and get it out of its light sign of, light line of sight. And then I go, I go, well, if he comes up on me, I'm gonna have to throw my dog. I was like, I looked at Duke and I, if it comes down to it, Duke, you're gonna have to take one for the team.

• 54:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. That's a horrible choice.

• 54:53Speaker 03

  It was a horrible choice, but I had my son.

• 54:55Joe Rogan?

  Of course. I get it.

• 54:57Speaker 03

  But I remember looking at him, and I was like, looking at my dog going, oh, man, this is a horrible decision I had to make. But if it comes down to it, I'm gonna have to sacrifice you, buddy. I love you. You know, but it didn't come down to it. But I remember running going, you're an idiot, James. Why are you running? You're not supposed to be running.

• 55:09Joe Rogan?

  You can't run. Well, that's the problem with mountain bikers. They get got because when they pass by a cat, it's almost like rolling a ball of yarn past a kitten.

• 55:17Speaker 03

  Oh.

• 55:19Joe Rogan?

  They're predators.

• 55:20Speaker 03

  And they will, they'll catch bikes, huh?

• 55:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. They get people on bikes. Yeah, that's happened a few times. They get people on bikes. They get joggers, people on bikes. They think you're running away from them.

• 55:31Speaker 03

  Could you imagine what it was like to be running for your life? Having something like that chase you?

• 55:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I can. I mean, it hasn't happened to me, but I've seen them. I've seen three of them in my lifetime. Only one of them that scared the shit out of me. I saw one in Colorado. I saw one in Montecito, like Santa Barbara area. It was small. Those are small ones. They were like 50, 60 pounds. And then I saw one with a buddy of mine, my friend Colton and I, we spotted one under a tree that was 30 yards away. We were in a truck and it made me shit my pants.

• 56:00Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 56:01Joe Rogan?

  It was so big. This one was really big. This was a mature male with a big pumpkin head and huge forearms like a fucking bodybuilder. It was freaky. It was freaky to see because... You know, it was, first of all, it was dusk. So the, the sun was going down and the lights of the truck, even though it wasn't quite dark yet, the lights of the truck were making his eyes glow.

• 56:23Speaker 03

  Oh my god.

• 56:24Joe Rogan?

  And you could see him with the naked eye, but then I put my binoculars on. And so I've got these 10-power binoculars and I'm zoomed in on this thing's face. I'm like, holy shit.

• 56:33Speaker 03

  Looks like he belongs in Africa.

• 56:34Joe Rogan?

  Well, he belonged right where he was, man. We didn't belong there.

• 56:39Speaker 03

  Let me tell you a really cool story that's a UFO, the best UFO picture I think's ever taken.

• 56:43Joe Rogan?

  Do you have it? Can I look at it or are you gonna tease me?

• 56:45Speaker 03

  No, no, no. We're gonna look for it. Uh, okay, so can, can you find the program trailer on, on here at all, or?

• 56:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 56:53Speaker 03

  Find the program trailer. I'm gonna tell you about this.

• 56:55Joe Rogan?

  Is this the trailer?

• 56:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 56:56Joe Rogan?

  Let's just watch the trailer.

• 56:57Speaker 03

  Alright, let's watch it.

• 56:58Speaker 05

  ...exposing a secret government program investigating UFOs.

• 57:05Speaker 06

  That story was kind of a catalyst for a lot of things that have happened since. Members of Congress started to ask questions. Instruments report there is something there.

• 57:14Speaker 01

  There are flight characteristics that we can't explain. UAPs are unexplained. It's true. They need to be investigated.

• 57:22Speaker 06

  Here we are, having a hearing where just a few years ago, we didn't even acknowledge that these things were real.

• 57:28Joe Rogan?

  Do you believe that our government is in possession of UAPs? Absolutely, based on interviewing over 40 witnesses over four years.

• 57:36Speaker 03

  You're telling me people have come forward claiming firsthand knowledge of craft of non-human origin? That's correct. We have sources who have asserted not only that there have been crashes,

• 57:51Speaker 01

  but there have been crash retrievals. Do we have the bodies of the pilots who piloted this craft?

• 57:56Joe Rogan?

  Biologics came with some of these recoveries, yeah.

• 58:01Speaker 01

  Were they human or non-human?

• 58:03Joe Rogan?

  Non-human.

• 58:05Speaker 05

  I'm sitting here today because the American people are being lied to. We are the American government and we are open and we're gonna be open about this. What has been revealed, non-human intelligence exists, non-human intelligence has been interacting with humanity, is only part of the story. The pressure's on. Pentagon, the CIA are gonna have to answer the man. Some are risking everything.

• 58:29Speaker 00

  Have you had incidences that have caused you to be in fear for your life?

• 58:33Speaker 05

  Yes, personally. To uncover the rest. What is being done to verify the assertion that the US government has spaceships of non-human intelligence in their possession?

• 58:42Speaker 01

  That kind of revelation unearths people's beliefs. I would go to jail to say things that I've been exposed to in the program.

• 58:54Joe Rogan?

  Bro, is that Mick Jagger? Was that other guy Mick Jagger?

• 58:58Speaker 03

  Isn't he amazing? That's Hal Putoff.

• 59:00Joe Rogan?

  Hal Putoff?

• 59:01Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, I know. Doesn't he look like Mick Jagger?

• 59:03Joe Rogan?

  That's not Mick Jagger?

• 59:04Speaker 03

  That's Gary McKinnon. He's the biggest computer hacker in history.

• 59:08Joe Rogan?

  Let me see what he looks like?

• 59:09Speaker 03

  He almost went to jail for life because he was like, "I'm gonna find out what the government knows about UFOs." So he hacked into the systems, NSA, CIA, DIA, like...

• 59:21Joe Rogan?

  Where is he?

• 59:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, oh, you wanna see that really cool picture?

• 59:24Joe Rogan?

  The foot, no, in the film.

• 59:26Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah, you gotta go towards the end. Yeah, no, he totally looks like Mick Jagger. It's really funny you should say that because I saw it and I'm like, "Wait a minute, that does look like a rock star." He is a rock star in the UFO community. It's coming up. You'll have to pause it quickly when it hits. But Gary McKinnon took it upon himself, a computer hacker, to find out if the government had proof of alien visitation. And he spent a couple of years hacking systems and he found, and he got paid dirt. There he is, that was it.

• 59:56Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that's Mick Jagger.

• 59:58Speaker 03

  Doesn't it look like Mick Jagger?

• 59:59Joe Rogan?

  That's Mick Jagger. Mick Jagger's in the UFOs. You should just like only show that clip, you know, like they do in horror movies where the mask is not that good. It's real quick.

• 1:00:07Speaker 03

  Yeah, but so, well, I was gonna tell you, there's a photograph of a jet circulating. Can I go into a little bit of detail? Because everyone's always worried about like, "Where's the good evidence? Where's the good photograph?"

• 1:00:17Joe Rogan?

  Show me that photograph again.

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  So it's, yeah, there we go.

• 1:00:20Joe Rogan?

  This was a lost photograph that was recovered.

• 1:00:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. You know about this?

• 1:00:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I know about this.

• 1:00:25Speaker 03

  Okay, so I heard about this in the late 90s.

• 1:00:27Joe Rogan?

  Tell everybody about it.

• 1:00:28Speaker 03

  Okay, so there was a guy, Nick Pope, who investigated, he was part of the UFO desk at the Ministry of Defence of England in the late 90s, mid to late 90s, maybe even as late as early 2000s, but in any case, and I was interviewing him for a number of my films, I did a film called Light of the Blue, I Know What I Saw, before I did The Phenomenon, and I asked him, like, hey, man, you were a part of the UFO desk at the MOD, what was the best case you ever saw? And he goes, oh, man, 1990, he didn't give me the town, it was Calvine, but he said Scotland, there were two poachers, they called them hikers, but they were actually poaching, and so it made me think about this when we were talking

• 1:01:08Speaker 03

  about animals earlier, and he said, it was late in the afternoon, they were in a place, I now know it's called Calvine, and they came upon, in this relatively remote area, I know, because I hiked out to the exact spot, and it's in the movie, but, and they came upon this diamond-shaped or disc-shaped object that was quite large, that was hovering silently, really close, I mean, close, and they were scared to death, and they were kind of hiding out underneath this tree, and they're looking at this thing, what the are we looking at? And they're looking at this thing as it's silently hovering, remember, this is 1990, okay? And one of them had a camera, and just as he was considering taking

• 1:01:53Speaker 03

  his camera out, a military jet came in, turns out, it was one of those Harrier jet, they think it was a Harrier jet, and it came out into the scene, and it flew all the way around the disc, and as it did so, the guy mustered up the courage, came out from under the tree, and he snapped five or six photographs of this object suspended in the air, and it went, so the disc is here, and the plane is flying around, it's click, click, click, click, click, click, and the reason why I know this is because the individual who kept one of the prints, thank you very much Craig Lindsay, RAF Press Officer, and thank you David Clark for uncovering this, because it's the most amazing picture ever, and...

• 1:02:40Speaker 03

  The two hotel workers in just outside the town of Calvine, Scotland, came back and they were like telling their coworkers, "Oh my God, we encountered this thing. We don't know what it was." So they go to the local newspaper and they were like, "Hey, man, we just filmed something in the sky. We got six prints of it." It was 35 millimeter film footage, right? And they're gonna go public with their story. Two witnesses, broad daylight, a UFO, points of reference with a military jet flying around, five or six prints? That's pretty solid evidence, right? So the local newspaper was like, "They're about to go public with it, print the story." And they were like, "Well, we need a statement from the RAF." So they contacted the press officer, Craig Lindsay, and they were like, "Hey, what do

• 1:03:25Speaker 03

  you make of this UFO these guys took?" And Craig Lindsay goes, "I don't know what you're talking about. I haven't seen the picture." "You haven't seen it? Well, let me send you a print." This is the newspaper.

• 1:03:36Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:04Joe Rogan?

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• 1:05:48Joe Rogan?

  See visible.com for plan features and network management details.

• 1:05:52Speaker 03

  Sends him a print, big print like this, the one you see today. And he's like, "Holy shit, the hell is this?" He's the RAF Press Officer, Craig Lindsay. So he starts getting in touch with the MOD, and he goes out and he investigates this, "Go talk to the witnesses, talk to the witnesses." And they were telling him. And he goes, "Well," they tell him what happened, and he goes, "Well, what kind of noise did it make?" And they say, "It didn't make any noise." He goes, "No noise? That's impossible. An object that can hover like that in the sky for that period of time, and we're talking 34 years ago, didn't make any noise?" And the witness said, "No." So he was like, "Holy shit, this is crazy."

• 1:06:32Speaker 03

  So he takes a color Xerox machine, and he sends it to the MOD in London. And he says, "Hey, there's a case that you might want to look into, and here's a Xerox," which is really crappy. It's just a scanned Xerox, like a fax machine, over to MOD. He said, "He went from the office where the Xerox machine was, and before he can get back to his office, his phone is ringing off the hook, MOD." And the MOD basically stepped in, took over the investigation. They said, "You can step down to Craig Lindsay." He steps down, he keeps the print, right? He steps down, they take over, witnesses gone, five or six prints gone, story killed, right?

• 1:07:15Speaker 03

  So thirty, and we'd rumored about it because Nick Pope had talked about this case in a book he wrote called Open Skies, Closed Minds. And then I talked to him about it in late, late 90s, then I talked to him about it again in the early 2000s. And I was like, Nick, especially in 2007, I was like, tell me about this photograph. And he's like, oh, it was incredible. We had a big poster of it on the wall, the MOD. And I was like, well, where is it? He goes, well, I don't know. I stepped down. I'm no longer at the UFO desk. And I said, well, they didn't just throw that away. Why don't you get in touch with the people that were there and find out? He's like, oh, you know, James, I can't just make those inquiries. We killed the story. It was like, you know, so I was incredibly frustrated. So discreetly for over a 20 year period, I was making inquiries because

• 1:07:57Speaker 03

  I don't like letting things go. Right? It was like, this picture exists. And bloody hell, let's get this one out there. But the story went dark. So David Clark found Craig Lindsay. And the way he found Craig Lindsay, the guy that kept one of the prints, is that he got a, he got a declassified government document out of the MOD's office that had redactions on it. And one of the things it said was, it was 1990, and they said RAF press officer in Scotland, blacked out, you know, said that blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And he's like, huh, who was the RAF press officer in 1990 in Scotland? Craig Lindsay. Boom, contact Craig Lindsay. They started communication going. And then after like, So much for redactions.

• 1:08:41Speaker 03

  Yeah, so much for redactions, right? And so this whole dialogue starts going, and they're developing a, and then he goes, well, gosh, I might, I guess I might have one. It turns out, he ended up keeping one of those prints which he had. And that story broke probably two years ago. David Clark, again, I can't thank you enough. You deserve accolades for this. And so I flew to England. I met with David Clark and his crew, the people that did the analysis work. Then I went up to Scotland. I met with Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, gave me the first and only on camera interview about it. What astonished him about it, the analysis work that did on it, what the witnesses said, but we didn't have the witnesses, the people that took the photograph. We didn't have them. But I was going to report on this anyway, just because, wow, this is the picture that

• 1:09:25Speaker 03

  we've all been waiting for. This picture is phenomenal. But if you don't have providence, and you don't have the background story on it, it could be AI, it could be, right, it could be a hoax. Some people call it a reflection. Not a reflection, not a hoax. So.

• 1:09:39Speaker 03

  I'm ending production of the program and I get a text from David Clark and he goes, "Something big's about to happen." And I said, "What?" He goes, "Just sit tight, I can't go public right now, but something big's gonna happen, there's a new development." I hate teases. Well, I'm coming out with it, I promise. But he teased you. He did tease me. He did tease me, but I was like, "Well, I'm almost done with the movie, and if this is something I can include in the movie about the case, please let me know." So, long story short, this guy, Richard Greaves, who was one of the hotel cooks, worked in the kitchen with the photographers, with the two witnesses that took the photograph. And Richard Greaves came forward on print, but I contacted David Clark, I was like, "Hey, can you get me an interview with this guy?"

• 1:10:23Speaker 03

  So, he kept putting it off, putting it off, putting it off, and then finally, I was like, I didn't want to be, I wanted to be persistent, but I didn't want to annoy the guy to the point where he was like, "Hey, you know what? Fuck you." Right. You're being annoying. Yeah. But I got it right up to that point, right? Where I was like, I was wrapping the movie, the movie's done, and I want to get this movie out, because all the people that participated wanted it out. And then I finally sent him one final text, and I was like, "Look, I'm really sorry to pester you, and I know you're probably really busy, and I really appreciate the fact that you even said that you'll meet with me, but that you'll give me an interview." And then, probably about 10 o'clock that night, I'm in the edit room, buttoning the film up, and all of a sudden, I get a phone call, and he's like, "I've just come out of the pub, I'm ready to go."

• 1:11:04Speaker 03

  I was like, "Okay, grab a camera, roll it, let's record this." And he reveals that he knew the witnesses, he worked with them in the kitchen, he gave all the specifics, he provided their names, and then he said that two or three nights after, two or three nights, four nights after they took that photograph, they were all on a cigarette break at the hotel, early evening, pissing rain, he said a car rolled up, there were three guys in it, a driver and two men in suits in the back, they roll up, they come out, they say cigarette break's over, they pull the two witnesses aside, and they grill him, and you got to hear it directly from the horse's mouth, Richard Greaves said that when they were all, the people that were not involved with the incident were told

• 1:11:49Speaker 03

  to go back inside the hotel, which they did, but they looked through the window and they saw, in the pissing rain, he said they were out there for 10 or 15 minutes in the pissing rain, and that these guys, they came back inside and they were white as a, he said, he literally goes, um... They uh, they came back inside, they were white as a fucking ghost. And uh, which we all get a good laugh out of, but uh, and then they started drinking heavily and within a couple of weeks, they vanished without a trace and they've been gone ever since. So we report on this and yeah, that's a, that's a replica, that's a replica.

• 1:12:21Joe Rogan?

  I was like, it's way too clear. I was like, is this?

• 1:12:23Speaker 03

  That's a replica from uh, Nick Pope, that he did it for some series, talking about it. And that was before the real photograph was found and printed.

• 1:12:32Joe Rogan?

  Let's see the real photograph.

• 1:12:33Speaker 03

  Yeah, show the real photograph again. I got it in, there it is. Yep.

• 1:12:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay, so what was he doing? Show the fake one one more time?

• 1:12:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's, it's a recreation before it leaked out.

• 1:12:42Joe Rogan?

  So was he just recreating what he remembered?

• 1:12:44Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:12:45Joe Rogan?

  Let me see the real one again.

• 1:12:46Speaker 03

  It's pretty damn good, isn't it? That he remembered that?

• 1:12:48Joe Rogan?

  Not bad, not bad. Missed the barbed wire fence, but not mad. Put in a bunch of bullshit background.

• 1:12:52Speaker 03

  I went to the exact location, that.

• 1:12:54Joe Rogan?

  All the bullshit he put in there. Put in beautiful hills.

• 1:12:56Speaker 03

  I know. And, and that fence is still there. There was a.

• 1:13:00Joe Rogan?

  Go back to the real one?

• 1:13:01Speaker 03

  Yeah, that fence is still there. I took an actual, I took a.

• 1:13:03Joe Rogan?

  So what is that jet in the background?

• 1:13:05Speaker 03

  Harrier jet, a Harrier jet is what I'm told. They're 99% sure.

• 1:13:08Joe Rogan?

  And was that Harrier jet trying to figure out what this was?

• 1:13:12Speaker 03

  Well, like I said, in the other prints, according to, to uh, Craig Lindsay, the RAF press officer, he said the other six prints or five prints had that Harrier jet in a different position. So he said it was zipped, the Harrier jet flew around checking that out. Now.

• 1:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Where are those other prints?

• 1:13:27Speaker 03

  We have other MOD, just, they're gone. They, they killed the story. I mean, the guy, the MOD who worked there, Nick Pope, told me that they, they did everything they could to squash it because.

• 1:13:37Joe Rogan?

  Don't you think they probably have it filed away somewhere?

• 1:13:39Speaker 03

  Of course they do. Of course they didn't throw those pictures away. They, they killed the story.

• 1:13:42Joe Rogan?

  Can you zoom in on this, Jamie, please?

• 1:13:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's a really crap copy. You're looking at a really bad print, you guys.

• 1:13:47Joe Rogan?

  Could you zoom it in?

• 1:13:48Speaker 03

  I've got a much better.

• 1:13:49Joe Rogan?

  That's as much as I can get.

• 1:13:50Speaker 03

  I've got a much better version of it.

• 1:13:51Joe Rogan?

  You got it on your phone?

• 1:13:52Speaker 03

  Yeah, I do, yeah.

• 1:13:52Joe Rogan?

  Text it to a homie. This um, this image is um, it's weird.

• 1:13:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a.

• 1:13:58Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's uh, it's hard to see what you're looking at, you know?

• 1:14:02Speaker 03

  It's uh, yeah, well, let me show you a much better copy of it. Hang on, let me just scroll up here, cause I've got a really good. I got the original print um, of this copy, but you know, people talk about, you know, the more compelling data and the links. So this is, this is the photograph that I took at the site. You can get an idea of that.

• 1:14:22Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:14:24Speaker 03

  See how, right? How similar, right?

• 1:14:26Joe Rogan?

  Looks exactly the same.

• 1:14:27Speaker 03

  Yep, and then here is, here's the, here's the print.

• 1:14:32Speaker 03

  And I could take a, I could text that to you guys if you want.

• 1:14:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, text that to me. I'll text it to Jay.

• 1:14:38Speaker 03

  I'll text it to you guys.

• 1:14:38Joe Rogan?

  Send both of them. This is, it's very interesting.

• 1:14:41Speaker 03

  Very interesting case. I mean, it's, again, I think it's one of the best photographic cases because you're not dealing with just a UFO. You've got a military jet in the background. And if you have a date and a location, guess what? That pilot's still out there. That pilot can, probably got it on radar and probably got gun cam for it.

• 1:14:58Joe Rogan?

  If he's still alive.

• 1:14:59Speaker 03

  If, well, he would have been probably young, right? Pilots are young.

• 1:15:02Joe Rogan?

  Sure.

• 1:15:03Speaker 03

  He would have been in his 30s or maybe early 40s, and that was 34 years ago. So, chances are he's still alive. They're pretty fit, right?

• 1:15:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, maybe he's in his 70s.

• 1:15:10Speaker 03

  Okay, I'm gonna, I'm gonna text this to you right now. Here we go. Boom. You should have that. Did I get you all, did I get all of them to you? And here is a picture of Craig Lindsey. This is great. You're gonna love this.

• 1:15:27Speaker 03

  Okay, this is, this is the guy that kept it.

• 1:15:30Joe Rogan?

  I didn't get it yet.

• 1:15:31Speaker 03

  You didn't?

• 1:15:32Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:15:32Speaker 03

  I wonder if it's because I have my phone on airplane mode?

• 1:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, take it off airplane mode, bro. I told you to do that.

• 1:15:37Speaker 03

  Oh, you did?

• 1:15:37Joe Rogan?

  I was trying to explain to you.

• 1:15:38Speaker 03

  Oh, sorry. Okay, it's off now. I'm sorry.

• 1:15:40Joe Rogan?

  Otherwise, it won't actually send it.

• 1:15:41Speaker 03

  Oh, it won't? Okay, all right. Here we go. Here we go.

• 1:15:44Joe Rogan?

  It's like dealing with my dad.

• 1:15:45Speaker 03

  I know. I'm so bad. I know. You were telling me how to do it. I was like, I haven't done that before.

• 1:15:49Joe Rogan?

  It's funny, people that don't understand how to use their phones.

• 1:15:52Speaker 03

  Tell me if that goes through.

• 1:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Okay, I'm waiting on it still.

• 1:15:55Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:15:59Speaker 03

  Great, great shot.

• 1:16:01Joe Rogan?

  Do you need me to send it?

• 1:16:02Speaker 03

  Here, you do it. Here, there's that one, and there's flipped left to right on it. But, you know, it just goes to show the lengths that the intel community, the Ministry of Defense, the DOD go to hide the more compelling photographic data because it's so easy to complain like, "Oh, well, if they were real, they would be good." Well, there are some really good prints.

• 1:16:25Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you got Joe Exotic in your phone.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  You guys are looking at other stuff. I found drones that you can, I don't know that they're commercially available.

• 1:16:33Speaker 03

  Did you get all the ones you wanted?

• 1:16:34Speaker 01

  But you can have a drone up for 24 plus hours.

• 1:16:37Joe Rogan?

  That didn't send it to me either.

• 1:16:38Speaker 03

  Are you serious?

• 1:16:39Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so weird.

• 1:16:40Speaker 03

  Am I sending to the wrong telephone number?

• 1:16:42Joe Rogan?

  Let me just see your number, the number you have.

• 1:16:44Speaker 03

  Okay, well, I have it. I definitely have it on signal. Here, you do it. Here, fuck it, you take over. You drive. Because I'm clearly failing at this one.

• 1:16:53Joe Rogan?

  I'm just gonna check to see what I sent it to, because I changed my number. Because people get weird.

• 1:16:59Speaker 03

  Oh, I can totally imagine that would be the case.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  This is a separate, I found some drones that these companies say that you can take off anywhere. They're showing them taking off from like small platforms in the ocean. They can stay up in the air for 14 plus hours. They're small and they do have propellers, I will say that.

• 1:17:16Speaker 03

  Yeah, and like I said, I mean, you know, it's not, the question is, are all of these drones, you know, explainable by aliens? And the question, the answer obviously is no. The question is, are any of these bona fide UAP? And there's definitely some evidence to suggest that's the case. But again, there's always misidentification and more conventional stuff, right?

• 1:17:35Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:17:36Speaker 03

  And there's always, and then there's a stubborn core percent, like, I'll give you an example. This is something that I've discussed a little bit recently. Did you find it okay?

• 1:17:46Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:17:47Speaker 03

  Okay, good. Finally, we got that that enigma worked out.

• 1:17:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just your 5G is very slow.

• 1:17:52Speaker 03

  Oh, really?

• 1:17:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you've been using AT&T.

• 1:17:54Speaker 03

  Oh, I'm using Verizon.

• 1:17:56Joe Rogan?

  Verizon, I use Verizon too.

• 1:17:57Speaker 03

  Really?

• 1:17:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's just real slow.

• 1:17:59Speaker 03

  Do I have, do I have, what's it called on?

• 1:18:02Joe Rogan?

  I accidentally sent myself these other ones of the guy holding it up too.

• 1:18:05Speaker 03

  Oh, cool. Yeah, that's cool. That's Craig Lindsey.

• 1:18:08Joe Rogan?

  So, I'll send this to you, Jamie.

• 1:18:10Speaker 03

  So, let me tell you a little, a little story that's pretty cool, which I never thought that this would happen. I

• 1:18:19Speaker 03

  There's a guy Kirk McConnell, who's Senate Armed Services Committee, and he participated at the very last minute in my, in my film. He's in the trailer. And he, in an official capacity with a high level clearance, he had been investigating UFOs ever since the New York Times article in 2017. So he was behind the scenes, 2017, 2018, tailing it 2017, 2018, 2019, 2020, 2021, 2022, 2023, 2024, and then he stepped down. And he came, through some intel folks, we got in touch, and I said, hey, man, my film's almost done. If you want, I could squeeze in one final interview. He decided to participate. Up he went. We became friends. We've been talking. And he said, hey, I could probably arrange

• 1:19:00Speaker 03

  a meeting, because there's some mutual interest in some UFO cases and evidence that I've been going after as a civilian. But he goes, hey, on the inside, if you want, I can cook you up with the, with the heads of Arrow, the new heads of Arrow, John Kosciowski, and this other guy, Ryan, who was Air Force Office of Special Investigations. This is just a couple of weeks ago. So I went to the congressional hearings, which was incredible. And people say, oh, it's a big nothing burger. But you know what? It was very exciting, seeing people testify in the road. There's a, there's a crash retrieval program, seeing a rear admiral, Tim Gallaudet, saying that they're under the water. I mean, it's pretty fascinating stuff. So I had to, I had to apply for a, a security background on me, which was about

• 1:19:41Speaker 03

  48 hours. And then I got approval for that. And then I showed up in a wing across the street from the Pentagon. And I had to go through the metal detector. And then there are these, kind of exciting for me, because I had never had this kind of experience before. There were these like glass tube type things that were lined up like in a row. And I, only one person go in at a time. The doors open, just like in Star Trek, and you walk in, and that door closes, and then another one opens, you go through the other side. Then I had to get rid of my phone and everything, and leave it outside, and then go into a SCIF, which is a sensitive compartmented information facility. SCIF's all super top secret, whatever. And, and I got to meet with the new head of Arrow, John Kosciowski. And I was like,

• 1:20:22Speaker 03

  I can't believe I'm in the belly of the beast. This is crazy. Like, how, how could I? I'm a civilian. I don't, I don't belong here. But we started talking, just very nonchalantly. You know, I said, hey,

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  You guys gotta throw us a bone. I said, you know, we're not going away. The story is not going away. And I said, and you know what we're ultimately dealing with. I mean, obviously, the vast majority of UAP or UFOs can be and have been explained away in down to earth conventional terms, right? But there's a stubborn core 15, 20% that really defy conventional explanation, not because of the lack of data, because they truly can't explain what these things do. And you know, well, you've had many people on, these objects exhibited technology that's just light years advanced from anything that we have. And it's been well documented since the 1940s, and possibly some people would say way before that. But modern day UFO wave, no question. So there's two, you know, two stories. One is someone's been

• 1:21:18Speaker 03

  in possession of this revolutionary technology for 85 plus years and kept it secret. Or two, we're not alone, right?

• 1:21:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:21:25Speaker 03

  NHI. So I said, I said to the gentleman, very candidly, you know, we're probably dealing with a small percentage of NHI. And what's the plan to tell the general public? And this is just a couple of weeks ago. And he looked at me and he goes, James, I can't part my hair without approval from the DOD. And you can quote me on that. And that was him, in my opinion, telling me, hey, this is structured in a way that's that I'm my hands are tied. I can, I can uncover all the things in the world, but I can't tell the general public or even Congress without the DOD approving it first.

• 1:22:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:01Speaker 03

  So that's what's kind of happening right now. And one of the reasons why we were so fortunate to get the number of, of, I say whistleblowers or potential whistleblowers or people to come forward in the program is because they were super frustrated with the previous head of, head of era, which is a guy named Sean Kirkpatrick, which basically just kind of blanket, you know, denied pretty much almost, almost everything. And people were extremely disappointed with that.

• 1:22:23Joe Rogan?

  Just like Blue Book.

• 1:22:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, kind of like Blue Book, yeah.

• 1:22:26Joe Rogan?

  They've always done that, right?

• 1:22:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, but yeah.

• 1:22:28Joe Rogan?

  But again, it brings us back.

• 1:22:29Speaker 03

  Not everybody's doing it. Not everybody's doing it.

• 1:22:31Joe Rogan?

  Right. There's a bunch of, well, I think now also with the internet, there's, there's ways to get information out that's much quicker and cleaner.

• 1:22:39Speaker 03

  No question.

• 1:22:40Joe Rogan?

  Than trusting a reporter.

• 1:22:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:42Joe Rogan?

  You know, and then your life's in danger.

• 1:22:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:44Joe Rogan?

  The reporter gets threatened and.

• 1:22:46Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:22:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, now things just kinda get out.

• 1:22:48Speaker 03

  So, so, well, I've thought about this, like, you know, I'm going back to Brazil and I thought, you know, I'm obviously going after, you know, additional eyewitness testimony, I'm going after the photographic stuff, and those of you out there that are like tired of hearing about it, well, I spent twenty-plus years in search of the photograph that I featured just now, that one, with the background story on it, Providence, that sort of thing.

• 1:23:09Joe Rogan?

  Jamie, go look at the one that I sent you. It's a better version of it.

• 1:23:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, and, and so I just because you've, you know, you can't, after a year or two, haven't successfully obtained stuff.

• 1:23:19Joe Rogan?

  So this is a better version of it?

• 1:23:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's a better version, that you can see the granular of the film footage.

• 1:23:24Joe Rogan?

  It's weird, it almost looks like there's something in the back.

• 1:23:26Speaker 03

  It does look a little bit like that.

• 1:23:28Joe Rogan?

  Like a little propeller or something, like a Jetsons type thing.

• 1:23:30Speaker 03

  But, but let's just say...

• 1:23:32Joe Rogan?

  And that thing was silent, supposedly?

• 1:23:33Speaker 03

  Silent, according to the witnesses, it didn't make any sound, it hovered there for an extended period of time, but when it took off, it took off straight vertical, like this, straight up.

• 1:23:41Joe Rogan?

  Fast?

• 1:23:42Speaker 03

  It started going fast, faster, faster, faster, and then it was gone. Yep, that was, that was Craig Leslie who interviewed the witnesses who told me that. And it's so weird, though, according to Richard Greaves in Scotland, the Americans got involved.

• 1:23:57Joe Rogan?

  Of course, we get involved in everything.

• 1:23:58Speaker 03

  Yep, they showed up and they intimidated the shit out of the witnesses, and I, I know people can criticizing me for reporting on these alleged men in black, but it's not me saying it, it's the witnesses that are saying it, and I did it full bore for the first time, full bore for the first time in moment of contact, because I remember hearing these stories for decades, and I finally was like, everyone's gonna think I'm crazy if I report on this, but this lady, who was the mother of the two daughters that saw, that had these visits and intimidation, and I was like, screw it, I'm just gonna report on this and I'll just take the criticism, you know, and then I wasn't expecting this to be the case with this photograph, but lo and behold, it was. But, um, anyway, uh, it's, it's a huge story.

• 1:24:43Speaker 03

  In my opinion, they can't put the genie back in the bottle. It's coming out and it's drip, drip, drip. But I have to remind your audience, people that are feeling impatient, that we've had three open congressional hearings in the last three years.

• 1:24:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:55Speaker 03

  We hadn't had any in over 50 years prior to that.

• 1:24:58Joe Rogan?

  It's definitely, even though it's still difficult to get information and figure out what's actually going on, there's way more open mainstream discussion of it.

• 1:25:05Speaker 03

  And it's frustrating at times, I get it. You know, people are like, oh, well, why all these people? Why can't they just say, why can't David Grush just tell us? You know? Well, I can remind people that the DOD has stripped David Grush of his clearances and won't allow him to get into a skip. This is one of the things that I talked to this guy, Brian Benner, appears in the movie at Politico, and he goes, if Congress finds out about it, one thing we know on the Hill is that you're going to find out about it. They can't keep a secret, it's going to leak. So they've been doing everything they can, I imagine it's the DOD, to prevent Grush from going into a skip with members of Congress to release and reveal the classified details necessary to verify his claims, okay?

• 1:25:44Joe Rogan?

  If you've been keeping this under wraps for 60-plus years, or whatever they've been doing, would you really tell AOC? Would you really pull her aside and tell her?

• 1:25:53Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, any members of Congress with the proper clearances and feel like they want to have that information, I mean, you got

• 1:26:00Joe Rogan?

  Nothing wrong with her. I'm not even saying her, I'm just saying, just pick a young one. You're going to give them all that information?

• 1:26:05Speaker 03

  Exactly, they don't want them to have that information. There's no question about it.

• 1:26:10Joe Rogan?

  I would, that's what I would imagine. That's probably why they won't let Grush get into a skip.

• 1:26:13Speaker 03

  So here's another thing I'd like to mention, is that David Grush claims that he gave even a street address to the ICIG, which is Thomas Monheim. That's the Intelligence Community Inspector General. So I'm asking members of Congress to support all their efforts, you know, Burkett, who's been amazing, regardless of what your politics, the guy's a phenomenon. He's been really pushing for transparency, he's a super solid guy. You got Mace, you got Musk, uh, Moskowski, what's his, uh, from Florida, Garcia from California, AOC, New York, Luna, and, uh, then of course you've got the Senate side, you've got Rubio, who totally knows where this stuff is, Rounds, Schumer.

• 1:26:56Speaker 03

  And if you look at the NDAA, you can see the language in plain sight. I mean, it's phenomenal what's going on. And I, and I, I think that our elected officials that are really pushing for transparency need to hear from us, need to hear from the citizens and know that we support their efforts and that we have their backs and continuing to push for transparency, to push to find out what the hell's going on. I mean, imagine if it's true. Imagine if we have spaceships and we have biologics, bodies, okay?

• 1:27:25Joe Rogan?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:27:26Speaker 03

  That is not just implications for the United States. That's global implications. I mean, the impacts, the ripple effect that would have around the world for that confirmation to happen.

• 1:27:38Joe Rogan?

  No doubt.

• 1:27:38Speaker 03

  It would be huge.

• 1:27:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, the human race deserves to know. It shouldn't be unelected officials and Defense Department people that know about this stuff. That's crazy.

• 1:27:47Speaker 03

  I totally agree.

• 1:27:48Joe Rogan?

  Unless, unless, this is what I had a conversation with Ryan Graves yesterday. The way I would argue it, if I was a military person, I would say this is a national security interest. And we are trying to back engineer this stuff. We're not successful. If China steals our data, if Russia can back engineer one before, if Iran gets one before us, we're fucked. Because these things are insanely sophisticated.

• 1:28:11Speaker 03

  We would obviously weaponize the technology. That's obvious.

• 1:28:13Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 1:28:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, duh.

• 1:28:15Joe Rogan?

  Duh.

• 1:28:15Speaker 03

  It's like 101, right?

• 1:28:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, why would we not?

• 1:28:17Speaker 03

  The basics. I mean, if you could put a nuke on one of those things, I mean, the exhibited technology, the people say, people that have witnessed this stuff say it goes from a standstill to out of sight and the blink of an eye. I mean, these objects, what was it? David Fravor said it went from space?

• 1:28:31Joe Rogan?

  Fifty thousand feet above sea level to fifteen-

• 1:28:32Speaker 03

  To sea level.

• 1:28:33Joe Rogan?

  In one second.

• 1:28:34Speaker 03

  In one second?

• 1:28:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:36Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 1:28:37Joe Rogan?

  It's insane. We talked about it yesterday. Like-

• 1:28:39Speaker 03

  Oh, you did? Yeah.

• 1:28:40Joe Rogan?

  It's insane amount of speed. And the way Ryan explained it in terms of like, the amount of force you would need is equivalent to, how many nuclear bombs did he say? Something insane, like the entire nuclear arsenal has to be to generate that kind of power. Whatever it is, it's if if these stories are true, it's doing something that we don't understand. So if it's ours, I kind of get why they wouldn't want to spill the beans. My thought once was, what if this is not weaponizable with our current technology? Like, what if these are our, these things are our drones, but they don't know how to put a weapon on it yet?

• 1:29:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, because whatever you do.

• 1:29:27Speaker 03

  I have a problem with that.

• 1:29:28Joe Rogan?

  At a speed.

• 1:29:29Speaker 03

  I have a problem with that theory, and the problem I have is that the United States government has documented close encounters of a third kind, that's a beans connected.

• 1:29:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:29:37Speaker 03

  That's their own files, right? That's not me saying it.

• 1:29:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:29:40Speaker 03

  So it's not just these objects exhibiting revolutionary technology for at least 80 years.

• 1:29:45Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:29:46Speaker 03

  Right? No wings, no tail, no visible means of propulsion, the ability to hover, accelerate, out of sight in the blink of an eye, right angle turns at high speed, no wake, no sonic boom.

• 1:29:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:29:54Speaker 03

  That kind of stuff, but you also have reports, credible reports of beings connected to some of the craft. And that's documented all around the world. So that eliminates, right?

• 1:30:06Joe Rogan?

  If it's true. So this is the whole thing, like, just because something's written down somewhere doesn't mean that someone didn't write it down as a psyops, someone did write it down to discredit other people with a ridiculous story. One way to discredit a credible story is to attach it to a bunch of ridiculous stories. Right? So if I was gonna hide some sort of technology, one thing I would do was connect it to a bunch of kooky stuff, a bunch of psychic stuff and remote viewing, just a bunch of things that people like very easily dismiss, UFO abductions, UFO encounters, encounters with an actual being. Right, but put a bunch of stuff in there that like makes people go, what? Is this real? And just enough, just enough that you can hide the real stuff in there.

• 1:30:49Speaker 03

  Well, I think.

• 1:30:50Joe Rogan?

  And again, I'm not, I'm playing devil's advocate.

• 1:30:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, no, I totally hear you. And I, and again, I've said this earlier in the show, and I'll say it again, is like, the reason why I believe David Grush. Who testified, not just because he testified.

• 1:31:01Joe Rogan?

  Well, I believe David, but David doesn't have firsthand experience that he's talked about.

• 1:31:04Speaker 03

  But the reason, I know, I know, but the reason why I believe him is because it aligns with my research in the field. Remember, I spent over 12 years investigating on and off with my buddy Marco Leal in, in, in Virginia, Brazil, that UFO crash case and only found out last minute, the last time I was there, that the Americans were involved. So I was like, oh my God, the rumors are, are true. Like, you know, the Americans really are. Do you see, like, I obviously looked into Roswell for years. I went to Roswell, the 50th anniversary.

• 1:31:34Joe Rogan?

  This is how the deal works, bro. You want the aid? We get the UFOs. We give you the aid, but if a crash UFO, you fucking call us. Stay out of there. Don't be carrying that dude to the hospital. Leave it to us and then we'll just scoop that up and shut the fuck up. What do you think about that? That, the, one of the craziest stories is that there's a building somewhere, that's an enormous building that was actually built around the UFO, because the UFO was too big to move. Have you heard this story?

• 1:32:01Speaker 03

  It was reported on News Nation with Ross Colhart.

• 1:32:05Joe Rogan?

  Well, that's gotta be real.

• 1:32:05Speaker 03

  And I, well, Ross Colhart is a credible.

• 1:32:08Joe Rogan?

  He seems legit. He's got an accent.

• 1:32:10Speaker 03

  He's got a great accent.

• 1:32:11Joe Rogan?

  He's got an Australian accent.

• 1:32:13Speaker 03

  Not quite British.

• 1:32:14Joe Rogan?

  We believe you if you have an accent.

• 1:32:15Speaker 03

  But it's close.

• 1:32:16Joe Rogan?

  You're more credible than a New York accent.

• 1:32:17Speaker 03

  There's something about a British accent that just adds credibility to anything.

• 1:32:20Joe Rogan?

  There's some guy from New York. So, we got this fucking car.

• 1:32:23Speaker 03

  Right, pretty sorry, mate.

• 1:32:24Joe Rogan?

  We put it over here.

• 1:32:25Speaker 03

  This thing was absolutely huge.

• 1:32:26Joe Rogan?

  This spaceship's so fucking big, we had to build a building around it.

• 1:32:30Speaker 03

  But, but they, they talked about it. Now, here's, here's.

• 1:32:32Joe Rogan?

  What is this building? And where is it supposed to be?

• 1:32:35Speaker 03

  I, I don't know.

• 1:32:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're holding him back?

• 1:32:38Speaker 03

  No, no, I really don't know.

• 1:32:39Joe Rogan?

  You haven't investigated this?

• 1:32:40Speaker 03

  Nope. I have a little bit, but I don't have the same connections on that. But I, but I'll tell you a case that I do think needs to get looked into.

• 1:32:46Joe Rogan?

  Oh, you're gonna, you're gonna move us around away from this?

• 1:32:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, because this is one that I, well, this is, no, but this is a craft, a recovered craft.

• 1:32:53Joe Rogan?

  He's a government agent, this guy. He's trying to.

• 1:32:56Speaker 03

  So, so, uh, there's a, there's a memo in the program. That was through the Dobbs process was released. Unfortunately, some of the names are redacted. Christopher Mellon obtained it. It was from correspondence he had with a high-level government official back in 2020. It just got approved for release, I don't know, maybe a year ago. It's featured in the doc. And in it, it has the names of not just the gatekeeper, but other people that names who found the gatekeeper to the crash retrieval program. I'm told that unredacted versions of that have been handed to select members of Congress and people that are investigated in an official capacity for the government. But in it, they specifically mentioned a case, not crash, a landed case

• 1:33:37Speaker 03

  that happened in 1953. It came in Arizona. So I had made some inquiries with aerospace folks that I've been meeting with quietly. And I'm like, what's this case that you guys keep talking about with the king in Arizona? They're like, oh, it was like, they just landed and left. I was like, well, how do you know they land? What do you mean landed and left? And they're like, well.

• 1:33:57Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:24Joe Rogan?

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• 1:35:59Speaker 03

  The doors are open and nobody home and they walked off. I said, you mean, somebody just flew this thing down. It landed on the ground in the desert and came in Arizona in 1953. And they left the doors open and laughing. They're like, yep, that's pretty much what happened.

• 1:36:15Joe Rogan?

  So they left the craft there?

• 1:36:17Speaker 03

  Somebody just, they flew it down and left a craft on the ground. I was told that and I, I wouldn't be repeating this if I didn't think there was some serious credibility to it, but apparently it was.

• 1:36:27Joe Rogan?

  Well, doesn't that align with how Diana Pasulka and Gary Nolan have started describing these things as donations?

• 1:36:33Speaker 03

  Well, the individual that I talked to was so funny because this individual was like, not a scratch. And I go, not a scratch? What? Not a scratch, not a scratch on the, no, it was perfect. Didn't have a scratch. I was like, oh my gosh. This sounds like somebody who's more than just heard about this. But that, one of the aspects of it didn't have a scratch on it. So I think that's, that's a case that I think that people should definitely.

• 1:37:01Joe Rogan?

  The firsthand witness said it didn't have a scratch?

• 1:37:03Speaker 03

  I don't know if it was the way they described.

• 1:37:05Joe Rogan?

  This is the problem. This is the problem I have with all this stuff.

• 1:37:08Speaker 03

  But here's the thing.

• 1:37:08Joe Rogan?

  If you were Travis Walton?

• 1:37:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:37:11Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 1:37:11Speaker 03

  Love that guy.

• 1:37:12Joe Rogan?

  I love that guy too.

• 1:37:13Speaker 03

  Fascinating story.

• 1:37:14Joe Rogan?

  I really enjoyed, there's, we got a bobblehead. That's a Travis Walton bobblehead.

• 1:37:18Speaker 03

  Oh, no way.

• 1:37:20Joe Rogan?

  Yes way. I got it from Travis. That's him staring at the sky.

• 1:37:22Speaker 03

  Oh, my gosh.

• 1:37:23Joe Rogan?

  When he was a young man.

• 1:37:24Speaker 03

  I went to the location at the remote spot.

• 1:37:27Joe Rogan?

  I'm interested in that because that's a firsthand witness.

• 1:37:29Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:37:30Joe Rogan?

  Right? That's a guy.

• 1:37:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:37:31Joe Rogan?

  He's explaining his bizarre experience. He's told the same story.

• 1:37:34Speaker 03

  No question.

• 1:37:35Joe Rogan?

  For whatever, fifty, sixty years. Whatever the hell it's been.

• 1:37:38Speaker 03

  Nineteen seventy-five.

• 1:37:39Joe Rogan?

  Whatever it was, since he got abducted, fifty, almost fifty years. So this guy was there. That was his story. That, I'm interested in that. When I hear a guy told a guy that this is what happened and this is how he described it, I'm like, mm.

• 1:37:52Speaker 03

  Super frustrating.

• 1:37:53Joe Rogan?

  So, talking to Jay Sands.

• 1:37:55Speaker 03

  Yes, firsthand.

• 1:37:55Joe Rogan?

  Again, firsthand was like, what the fuck are you saying?

• 1:37:58Speaker 03

  Yeah, face to face, yes.

• 1:37:59Joe Rogan?

  Tell me what it was doing? What did it look like?

• 1:38:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:38:01Joe Rogan?

  He said, he thought it was an adolescent, too. He didn't think that it was a full grown one. He thought it was young.

• 1:38:07Speaker 03

  Well, he's got an illustration of it in the documentary, and I tell you, it's, it's one of the cra- I remember after hearing-

• 1:38:11Joe Rogan?

  Can you imagine?

• 1:38:12Speaker 03

  Oh, I know. I was like, if this is true, I was like, this is crazy.

• 1:38:18Joe Rogan?

  Can you imagine being that person?

• 1:38:20Speaker 03

  Now, this is something that we didn't reveal in the documentary, which was really funny. He thought that this individual was suffering from frostbite or, um, what's that when you get really cold?

• 1:38:29Joe Rogan?

  Hypothermia.

• 1:38:29Speaker 03

  Hypothermia.

• 1:38:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:31Speaker 03

  Skin had a blue tint to it. So he was taking, he took his jacket off and he very insistently put the jacket on this individual because he was thinking this person's really, really cold, has been out in the desert, probably had a plane crash or whatever.

• 1:38:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:38:41Speaker 03

  And so he's putting his jacket on. The person was kind of resistant, but Jason Sands said, I insisted, I took one layer of my jacket and I put it around this individual, and that individual left with the jacket on. So we jokingly, I jokingly say, where do you think your jacket is now? He's like, probably out there at Alpes Atari or god only knows.

• 1:38:58Joe Rogan?

  Or right here.

• 1:38:59Speaker 03

  Yeah, or, yeah, or-

• 1:39:01Joe Rogan?

  This is the thing that gets me. Logistically.

• 1:39:04Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:39:04Joe Rogan?

  Okay, if these things are coming from the ocean, just logistically, you'd have to have a large ship. So we were, we were talking about this with Ryan yesterday. And I was saying, like, if they had a battleship, we'd be able to see that, right? Like, one hundred percent. He said, so it would have to be a submarine. So I'm like, Jesus Christ, what if there really is some sort of a civilization underwater? That that has existed, coexisted with us forever?

• 1:39:28Speaker 03

  Did you hear about the testimony by Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet just recently in Congress?

• 1:39:36Joe Rogan?

  Is this the one where the thing's moving underwater 500 knots?

• 1:39:39Speaker 03

  Yes, he's reporting, he's reporting.

• 1:39:41Joe Rogan?

  Explain it to people, what he said?

• 1:39:43Speaker 03

  I don't have all that you can look it up. Yeah, what I can remember is basically is confirming that we have objects that are exhibiting a technology underwater that defies any conventional explanation, things that are just virtually impossible, like so much faster than the fastest submarine or anything like that, just, and they're really big.

• 1:40:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's moving as if there's no resistance underwater.

• 1:40:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then they can.

• 1:40:03Joe Rogan?

  So moving like a fighter jet would in the air, it's moving like that underwater.

• 1:40:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, they call it transmedium or something, they can do that. But confirmation, I mean, that's, and I actually spoke to, to, to Rear Admiral Tim Gallaudet on a couple of occasions recently, and I thanked him for coming forward to testify, and he said, you know, I felt an obligation to do so because a lot of my men, the pilots, were coming forward and I wanted to back them up. And so.

• 1:40:30Joe Rogan?

  Good man.

• 1:40:31Speaker 03

  That's why, that's why he stepped forward and testified.

• 1:40:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you're, if you're coming here from somewhere else and you wanted to hide in plain sight, you would hide in the ocean, especially if you have the technology to like completely negate any of the effects of the, the water and the pressure.

• 1:40:45Speaker 03

  At least explore this place on earth.

• 1:40:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we can't get to it, we don't have the technology to get, they know we don't. They know it's really hard to get a submarine out to wherever the fuck they would be.

• 1:40:54Speaker 03

  What's his name, went to the bottom of the Mariana Trench?

• 1:40:56Joe Rogan?

  Cameron.

• 1:40:57Speaker 03

  Cameron, by himself, I would, I would never do that.

• 1:40:59Joe Rogan?

  He's a wild boy, yeah.

• 1:41:00Speaker 03

  Isn't that like 35,000 feet down? How far is it?

• 1:41:03Joe Rogan?

  It's something bizarre like that, I mean, that's those poor folks.

• 1:41:06Speaker 03

  Would you go down in a submarine by yourself?

• 1:41:08Joe Rogan?

  Fuck, no, definitely not a.

• 1:41:09Speaker 03

  Hell, no.

• 1:41:10Joe Rogan?

  A homemade one, like the one those people died in, yeah, but that was, there's another thing about that case, when the people went down that submarine, apparently. I guess it's the Navy has some sort of very sophisticated underwater audio sensors. And they heard the implosion and they knew about it like immediately.

• 1:41:29Speaker 03

  And didn't report on it.

• 1:41:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, I mean, I think the problem with reporting on is that you have to report on your technology now.

• 1:41:36Speaker 03

  Ah, yes.

• 1:41:37Joe Rogan?

  So I don't even know if this has been confirmed, but this is what I had heard.

• 1:41:41Speaker 03

  Methods and means or?

• 1:41:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also, it's gotta be top secret. Like, it's gotta be one of those things where if you're gonna reveal that you heard that, you have to have clearance to do it. You probably have to run it up the ladder.

• 1:41:52Speaker 03

  One of the reasons why we know about overhead satellite imagery of UAP is because of Ratcliffe, who was former head of ODNI. And he came forward, and I remember it's funny actually, because it was classified. And Christopher Mellon participated in this latest production with me because of Ratcliffe revealing it on Fox News. And Ratcliffe basically says, yeah, we have overhead collection satellite data of UAP that are pretty fucking far out. And that, yeah, that, that happened. So they're talking about this. But getting back to your point, because I know you said you were frustrated. You're like, oh yeah, it's just another anecdotal piece of evidence, a piece of testimony, third party, not firsthand.

• 1:42:28Joe Rogan?

  I'm not saying I'm frustrated.

• 1:42:29Speaker 03

  No, no, no, I, no, I, what I'm saying is I totally agree with you. I'm frustrated. As somebody who's been chasing this story for 30 years, I too want access to the better, more compelling data. It's why I chased after that photograph I just shared with you earlier on for as long as I did. Because I, I hear about something, I go after it. But I want to remind your audience, you can't go after something without knowing that it exists. So you get the leads, you find, you start, we're learning more about the programs. We're learning how these programs are, are hidden, these WUSAPs. Uh, they're waived, unacknowledged, special access programs, probably hidden somewhere in the D. I know, it sounds crazy, but, but at least guiding, giving some guidance as to where are these things? And how these things are hidden, where they might be found.

• 1:43:13Speaker 03

  We reveal, there's a gentleman in the film called Navy X. And people are like, ah, it's such another person testifying anonymously. Well, yes, true, but he gives us specifics on telling members of Congress where to look to find. Specifics, JWICs, what is it? And this is where to find the more compelling data. I'm going to read this because it's important that people know that. He's saying, look, I've seen it and this is where it is. It's called, the official UAP data is kept either in SIPR, Secret Internet Protocol Router Network, or JWICs, Joint Worldwide Intelligence Communication System, that's used by the DOD and only available in a SKIF. And a SKIF is a sensitive, compartmented information facility. So, is it frustrating to hear that and people criticize, oh, it's just another person?

• 1:43:58Speaker 03

  But he's saying, I've seen it, it's phenomenal. He gives descriptions of some of the stuff he saw and he's telling members of Congress, if you have the clearances, this is where it's being kept. So those are very good specifics. And again, I remind you guys, like, okay, just be patient. This is not a hundred yard dash. We're running a marathon right now.

• 1:44:17Joe Rogan?

  An ultra marathon.

• 1:44:18Speaker 03

  We are.

• 1:44:19Joe Rogan?

  I want to get back to what I was talking about earlier. Logistically, logistically.

• 1:44:24Speaker 03

  I'm kidding.

• 1:44:24Joe Rogan?

  If you're letting something go from the ocean.

• 1:44:27Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:44:27Joe Rogan?

  If you're flying it out of the ocean, logistically, you would have to have some sort of a large craft out there that's going to house these things or it's going to launch from, right? If it is actually coming from the ocean.

• 1:44:39Speaker 03

  Oh, you see the drones you're talking about right now?

• 1:44:41Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:44:42Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:44:42Joe Rogan?

  So, either they're ours, and if they're our ours, how do they hide the fact that there's a battleship out there? Is that possible? And if it's from a submarine, how do they develop a submarine that can launch 50 car-sized or SUV-sized drones from?

• 1:45:00Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's one of the things that Christopher Mellon said to me this morning. He goes, that's just, that's the one element or aspect that really is a head scratcher. Because...

• 1:45:10Joe Rogan?

  But, this is the question.

• 1:45:11Speaker 03

  Fifty, 50 of these things coming in off the ocean, that's just confirmed.

• 1:45:16Joe Rogan?

  Right, right.

• 1:45:16Speaker 03

  No one's denying that.

• 1:45:17Joe Rogan?

  But here's the question.

• 1:45:18Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:45:18Joe Rogan?

  Is it possible to classify the location of a US battleship that's capable of having these things?

• 1:45:25Speaker 03

  So big. How could you like...

• 1:45:27Joe Rogan?

  What, how big would it have to be to launch 50 drones?

• 1:45:31Speaker 03

  God, you're not talking, you're talking, I don't know, man. But that's a lot of drones, especially the size they're reporting. They're talking about drones the size of an SUV.

• 1:45:39Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:45:39Speaker 03

  With super long loiter time.

• 1:45:41Joe Rogan?

  Let's imagine, let's imagine you, so when you take a ferry, how many cars can a ferry fit on it?

• 1:45:48Speaker 03

  I take a ferry all the time in Vermont, over to New York.

• 1:45:51Joe Rogan?

  Like a big one, like a legit one, like a European ferry, 50 cars?

• 1:45:53Speaker 03

  I put, well, the one that's medium legit, I put... Twenty-five, thirty, maybe forty, twenty-five to forty, yeah.

• 1:46:02Joe Rogan?

  So couldn't you, couldn't you do that with drones? And couldn't you have something that's a little larger than the average ferry? So you wouldn't need a battleship.

• 1:46:10Speaker 03

  Why would they do that? Why would they do that over residential areas? Why would they have everybody scratching their heads? All these press conferences. You, you're talking about the head of the Gang of Eight, right?

• 1:46:21Joe Rogan?

  But if they're, if they need to patrol those guys. If they are really looking for a nuke. Okay, let's imagine that this story about, you know, a Ukrainian nuke from the time when they, they disarmed them. There's one that's unaccounted for. This is one of those stories that's been on the internet. I don't know if it's true.

• 1:46:43Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:46:44Joe Rogan?

  That it's unaccounted for, that they think it's headed to the United States. If you were trying to find that thing.

• 1:46:49Speaker 03

  Like a dirty bomb?

• 1:46:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, or like a, a, just a regular nuke. That if you're looking for gamma rays, like you could devise a drone that could search for that. And you'd fly it over an area and you wouldn't care whether people freaked out because it's more important to find this goddamn thing. Right, so if you have this technology, it's some skunk works.

• 1:47:09Speaker 03

  You can't do it from space?

• 1:47:11Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't think so. I think you have to be there.

• 1:47:13Speaker 03

  Certain proximity within, within, to, to pick up whatever. Did you bring this up with Ryan Graves?

• 1:47:18Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:47:18Speaker 03

  What did he say?

• 1:47:19Joe Rogan?

  You mean, he doesn't know either. He doesn't think so.

• 1:47:22Speaker 03

  Everybody that I trust, people in the FBI, people that I'm, I communicate with often, I'm like, what is going on?

• 1:47:29Joe Rogan?

  It almost seems too sexy that the United States has that kind of ability and they're just flying these things around. And that they're doing it for that specific reason to find a nuke. It's like that we have this kind of technology that we didn't, none of us are aware of. That we have these, these drones that can shut off when you come close to them, the lights shut off, they disappear. They avoid, avoid tracking the RF signal, it doesn't show up. They, they're cool, they're some, they have some sort of cooling mechanism in them, so it's difficult to see with infrared. I don't understand any of that. He was saying that's above what we can do right now. And saying that, but they're not moving in a way necessarily, that's not possible.

• 1:48:07Joe Rogan?

  With drone technology that is mainstream, but there's some aspects of the way they move and what they're doing that doesn't lead them to believe that this is current state of the art technology.

• 1:48:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, they even even I had some until people tell me like even if it's conventional, it's highly advanced conventional.

• 1:48:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, but let's look at China, like China has highly advanced drones.

• 1:48:28Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:29Joe Rogan?

  Their drone, their whole, we were talking about this as well, that the bottleneck in America was the FAA. The FAA put a lot of restrictions on the manufacture of drones and how you can do them, what you can do. China doesn't have any of that, so they're full steam ahead with innovation. If you look at what drone manufacturers in the United States have been able to do. And then imagine untethered if they weren't fucked over by all these regulations that got in the way of innovation. Who, because obviously you have to have one because if you have some commercial drone that someone can buy that can move 500 miles an hour and fly through the air and stay up there for six hours at a time. And film video of everything and anything, well, and you can't control it, you can't block the radar screen, you can't find it with infrared.

• 1:49:14Joe Rogan?

  That's pretty nuts. So I would imagine that would not be a thing that they would want in the hands of the average American person.

• 1:49:20Speaker 03

  But why did it just start happening fairly recently? When I say this?

• 1:49:24Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm saying if it's Chinese. If it's Chinese, if they if they're unburdened by our regulations and not only do they have the help of the government, they have financing behind them, they have an imperative. They're told what to do.

• 1:49:37Speaker 03

  They're flying it over Langley, they're flying it over.

• 1:49:40Joe Rogan?

  Wouldn't you do that?

• 1:49:41Speaker 03

  Bet.

• 1:49:42Joe Rogan?

  Just to fuck with these people?

• 1:49:43Speaker 03

  What's the golf course that Trump has?

• 1:49:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, his golf course, yeah.

• 1:49:46Speaker 03

  What's that called?

• 1:49:47Joe Rogan?

  I don't know.

• 1:49:47Speaker 03

  Westminster, Bedminster or something like that? They're flying over that?

• 1:49:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:51Speaker 03

  The president-elect?

• 1:49:52Joe Rogan?

  Langley Air Force Base did experience incursions of unauthorized unbanned aerial systems in last year, December 2023, says Sabrina Singh, Pentagon spokeswoman. The number of those UAS incursions did fluctuate, but they didn't appear to exhibit any hostile intent. It's something that we have kept our eye on. Well, thank God you're keeping your eye on it.

• 1:50:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, we have no idea what they are, but they they're fine, nothing to worry about.

• 1:50:15Joe Rogan?

  Yesterday, this has been happening, this is the third year in a row.

• 1:50:17Speaker 01

  has been happening right around Christmas time.

• 1:50:18Speaker 03

  Well, that's one of the reasons.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  Santa Claus.

• 1:50:21Speaker 03

  One of the reasons why I wanted you guys to hear that account by the guy at Vandenberg Air Force Base, this is not anonymous reporting, the guy's giving his name.

• 1:50:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:28Speaker 03

  And he's talking about objects that are the size of a football field.

• 1:50:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:32Speaker 03

  Hovering over a silo, launch control area.

• 1:50:34Joe Rogan?

  That's also the Phoenix Lights, they described them as size of a football field or larger.

• 1:50:39Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah. Well, I interviewed a guy, there was a case that happened in, right here in Texas, Stevenville. Ricky Sorrell is one of the best witnesses, I love the guy, he was a hunter. And he's like, he's like, James, he's like, you could have landed an airplane on this. I said, you gotta be kidding me. He goes, no, man, I goes, I stood under this thing. He goes, it was so big, I was standing under it and he had his rifle and he's standing under it and he's looking up and he's looking to the left, he's looking to the left, right, back, forward, can't see the edge of it in any direction. So he grabs his hunting rifle, cause he was, he was hunting deer, this is 2008. Grabs his hunting rifle.

• 1:51:15Joe Rogan?

  Please don't tell me he shot it.

• 1:51:16Speaker 03

  No, well, so he holds his honey rifle, his rifle up and he's looking through the scope and he goes, James, I'm a metal worker, I work with metal, I know what metal looks like. And he's looking through the scope and he goes, man, there's no rivets, there's no seams, there's no weld marks. He's like, there were these, on the belly of it, there were these reverse, like recessed cones, like bigger and then they got smaller as it went up into the belly of the craft. He's looking up at it and his finger's on the trigger and he's like, man, I wonder, wasn't that hard, I go, I wonder what happened if I just pulled the trigger here and I bet it would ricochet off or hit the belly or something. So he's looking at it and he's just about to pull the trigger to check it out and he goes, hmm, maybe this isn't such a good idea. I interviewed him in 2008 when this was going down and then about a year later, I was doing

• 1:52:00Speaker 03

  some follow-up interviews for a film I did, I Know What I Saw, and I had this gentleman walk up to me and I was filming in the downtown square in Stevenville, or it might have been Dublin, and.

• 1:52:13Speaker 03

  This gentleman looks at me and he goes, "You Mr. Fox?" And I was like, "Yes." And he pulls out a badge and he shows me his badge. And he's like, "Can I talk to you for a minute? I'm Officer So-and-so." And I was like, "Jesus Christ, what the hell did I do?" And I say, "Yeah, sure." And we walk off to a cafe and he goes... He's looking at... He had his back. He had his back to the wall of the cafe so he could see everybody coming in. He was really paranoid. And he said, "You know Ricky Sorrells?" I said, "Yeah." And he goes, "That guy's telling the truth." I said, "How do you know?" He goes, "'Cause the whole police department saw it." I can't remember if it was Dublin Police Department or Stevenville. I think it was Dublin. Steven... Uh, Police Department. He goes, "Yeah, man, we..." He said, "We, uh... We were sitting over there in patrol cars and this object was like a floating department storm." He was absolutely colossus. Colossal, like a city.

• 1:52:58Speaker 03

  Took out my radar gun, pointed at it, and it was doing 22 miles an hour. And then he said it drifted off and they... One of the officers, I don't remember the name of the gentleman, took his gun... His... Sorry. His dash cam and he flipped it up and he filmed it. And apparently, one of the biggest mistakes this individual made, this police officer made, was that he didn't make a copy of it because the local air force base requested that film footage and got it. And so, I've been telling people to go after that. Stuff exists. But my point is, this object was so big, people claimed the witnesses, the firsthand witnesses, that you could have landed an airplane on it.

• 1:53:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:34Speaker 03

  I mean, what is... What is that?

• 1:53:36Joe Rogan?

  What is that? What happens if you see that? That's the thing. Like, if you see that, do you even tell people? You sound like a kook.

• 1:53:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:42Joe Rogan?

  Like, if I saw it, if I was outside in the desert.

• 1:53:45Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:45Joe Rogan?

  And I was just chilling. And something so big that I couldn't see the edges of it.

• 1:53:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:50Joe Rogan?

  Flew overhead. I don't know what I'd say.

• 1:53:52Speaker 03

  He said, "When it took off, it was like this." He goes, "James..." And Ricky didn't want to give me an on-camera interview. For the longest time, he said, "I'm not coming forward. I'm not gonna do it. I'm not going public." I worked on him for eight months. Finally, I got the green light. I flew back out to Texas, got him on camera, put him in the movie. But he said, "When it took off, it went from this, a complete standstill, and it went straight up, like at a slight angle, but straight up and gone." He goes, "James..." I said, "Describe the acceleration." He goes, "Hell, I'll tell you the best way I can describe is that had I blinked, I would've... I would've missed it." That's how fast it took off. So, it went from here, like that. He had, um... He had helicopters hovering over his... I know this sounds crazy. People are gonna be like, "Oh, this big..."

• 1:54:35Speaker 03

  But he had helicopters flying over his property for a while, right around the time that I was trying to get him to go on camera. He came out in his underwear and his shotgun at late at night with his helicopter spotlighting him up and he ended up calling the local air force base and said, "Stop flying over my house at night." And they said, "We suggest you stop talking about what you saw." And so, uh, he was kinda spooked. And about eight months later, he finally, he finally decided that he was gonna go public with the story. But, you know, everything to lose, nothing to gain. You get this countless reports of these cases, you know, and they're around the world, right? It's not just the United States. I've demonstrated that time and time again.

• 1:55:13Joe Rogan?

  But there's more of them in the United States than anywhere else, right?

• 1:55:16Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, one of my favorite cases, Ruwa Zimbabwe, that's an amazing case.

• 1:55:20Joe Rogan?

  Right, right, right. But there's more sightings in the United States than anywhere else, right?

• 1:55:24Speaker 03

  Seems to be an attraction, almost like a moth to a flame with, uh, with nukes. Somehow, they're interested in our nuke, nuclear capabilities. And I remember interviewing Robert Salas, who was a launch control officer, who described this whole event at Malmstrom Air Force Base in the 60s, where these UFOs were witnessed on the base, and then all their min- min- missiles started getting shut down. And I remember saying to him, like, "Well, what, uh, what's, what's your take on that? Like, what kind of, you know?" And he goes, "And I could realize, I realize why this individual was a launch control officer, because he was so measured and so calm and so cool." And he goes, "Well, James, the

• 1:56:05Speaker 03

  message I got was kinda clear. It's almost like taking matches out of the hands of a baby."

• 1:56:12Joe Rogan?

  About the nukes.

• 1:56:12Speaker 03

  Yeah. So, you know, with the phenomenon, you look at what they do, right? And that, that says some things. They've done some pretty brazen events, right, over the, around, over the decades. But you also look at what they don't do. Because if the phenomenon wanted to end this, like, you know, secrecy, once and for all, all they'd have to do is hover over the Macy's Day Parade, or, or the next, uh, big Super Bowl, and it's game over. They don't do that. They've done some pretty brazen things, right? I mean, a case in point, uh, March 13th, 97, over the state of Arizona, including the governor, Fife Simon, witnessed that massive, there were a number of UFOs witnessed, but that, the main one, you know,

• 1:56:56Speaker 03

  was this big boomerang-shaped craft. And even the governor said it must've been at least a mile across from wingtip to wingtip that floated. And I actually interviewed people that worked at Luke Air Force Base at the time, and they said that they scrambled jets to intercept this thing. And I interviewed a number of people that saw that craft. I mean, that stood on their, that lighted down on their lawns and watched it float over the top of them. And apparently, according to this individual that I met in the, in the late 90s at Luke Air Force Base, they scrambled a military jet to intercept this thing. He came up on it, could have landed on the damn thing, it was so big. And it went from moving very, very slowly to accelerating like warp drive. Boom, just gone. When the jet came back to the base, Luke Air Force Base, they had to carry him out

• 1:57:39Speaker 03

  of the, the plane, I'm told, because he was so shaken by what he saw.

• 1:57:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I could imagine you wouldn't handle that well.

• 1:57:46Speaker 03

  Can you imagine having to keep that secret?

• 1:57:47Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 1:57:48Speaker 03

  Imagine like, could you imagine taking the ultimate-

• 1:57:50Joe Rogan?

  Well, the governor had to lie, right? The governor had to like stand up with a robe, a guy in a-

• 1:57:55Speaker 03

  Dressed in an alien suit.

• 1:57:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, an alien costume.

• 1:57:57Speaker 03

  Five Symington, yeah.

• 1:57:58Joe Rogan?

  And then-

• 1:57:59Speaker 03

  I hammered him on that one.

• 1:58:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, then afterwards, once he left office, then he talked about it.

• 1:58:03Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:58:04Joe Rogan?

  And he talked about seeing it.

• 1:58:05Speaker 03

  Yes. Yeah, yeah, I got-

• 1:58:07Joe Rogan?

  I wonder why he had to do that, though.

• 1:58:08Speaker 03

  I, I got, oh, well, so I interviewed, I was the one that got, got him to break his silence after 10 years. And he told me, and I don't necessarily know that I fully believe it, but he told, because initially, when it happened in, in March, and now, remember, the vast majority of people were out under the night sky to get a glimpse of the Hellbawg comet. So it was witnessed all the way across the state of Arizona, and even in Nevada, southern Nevada. And, um, yeah, there he is. Five told me that it was growing hysteria, but initially, he had set out, and he said, "We're gonna find out, I'm contacting Luke Air Force Base, reached out to the Pentagon, and all these various services, and we're gonna, we're gonna get to the bottom of it." And then, I don't know how much longer it was, was it later that day, or was it the next day?

• 1:58:53Speaker 03

  He held an unscheduled press conference, and that's when he had his aides dressed up in an alien suit and made a mockery of it all. And I can assure you, pissed the hell off his constituents and the witnesses all across the state of Arizona. They were furious. And, um, I confronted him on that 10 years after the fact, because I was pissed off. I was investigating that case when it happened in the 90s. And I interviewed a lot of really good witnesses, really good witnesses. And, um, he said, uh, the reason why he did it was because of growing hysteria, that he wanted to quiet, calm down the, the hysteria. But- Did he get a phone call just saying, hey, kill this story?

• 1:59:35Speaker 03

  I lean in that direction, but he's never, even when we're having cocktails together, he's never confessed that that happened. But it is awfully suspicious, the way it all went down.

• 1:59:43Joe Rogan?

  It's a little weird, especially considering he actually saw it.

• 1:59:46Speaker 03

  That could have been a turning point in the UFO phenomenon reporting, you know, era, right? Like, suddenly you get this massive sighting, which would happen today, we would have been covered by, you know, everybody's phones and whatever. But if the governor had come forward and said, yeah, we need to figure out what that thing is, I'm a former captain in the Air Force, I'm a pilot, and I saw it, I don't know what the hell that thing was.

• 2:00:09Joe Rogan?

  Is there any footage of the actual thing, the triangle boomerang looking thing?

• 2:00:13Speaker 03

  There's some footage floating around, and I featured some, and I know what I saw. You got an object in the night sky with lights that, and I, at the time, in 2009, I did some kind of enhancement, I'm sure the software is a lot better nowadays, of, it looks like, like a big, I can draw it.

• 2:00:33Joe Rogan?

  Like a boomerang?

• 2:00:34Speaker 03

  Yeah, but more angular. It was like, like this, like this.

• 2:00:42Speaker 03

  And my drawings are terrible.

• 2:00:43Joe Rogan?

  Like that? Look up at the screen?

• 2:00:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, kind of like that, yeah. Yep.

• 2:00:50Joe Rogan?

  And so that image in the far left, that's, but that's the, that's it right there, right?

• 2:00:57Speaker 03

  Yeah, and here's something that kind of throws off the trail here, because, excuse me, the object came down of the state of Arizona, it went from north to south.

• 2:01:07Joe Rogan?

  Is that legit?

• 2:01:08Speaker 03

  On the right there?

• 2:01:09Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:10Speaker 03

  I honestly, I can't say. I'd have to really do a deep dive into it, but let me tell you what happened, because this is brilliant. So what happened was, you got this massive object from around 5:30 at night in the southern Nevada, and then it drifts down very slowly over, across the entire, from north to south, across the entire state of Arizona, and right around 7:30, 8, 8:30, the Berry Goldwater Mountain Range, which is the direction it was heading in, the military decides to drop a bunch of flares. And so people were like, "Oh, there it is." There's some, you know, and they, and a bunch of people filmed the flares. So in my opinion, it was a diversionary tactic that was brilliantly done.

• 2:01:53Speaker 03

  Because why the military suddenly decided to drop flares in the shape of, somewhat in the shape. So I think that some of the footage that you've seen out there is military flares. But there's, and there was an effort, I don't know if you want to get into it right now, but there was, there was an effort by the so-called M and B, which the MIB, these men in black, or the whatever unknown government agency they come from, to, that took, that took some footage that I was learning about during my investigations in the 90s. And I know you're looking at me like I'm crazy.

• 2:02:26Joe Rogan?

  No, no.

• 2:02:27Speaker 03

  So the first time I really heard a really credible report of the MIB, and I decided not to report on it, was when I was in touch with a woman who was councilwoman, Frances Barwood, who was one of the few officials in Phoenix area that was saying, "Hey, let's investigate what these people are claiming they've seen." She's not saying aliens have landed. All she's saying is, "Hey, these people have a right to know what's going on. Let's launch an investigation." She was lambasted over the media, made fun of, ridiculed. But as a result of her inquiry, public inquiry and putting it out there, one of these individuals reached out to her, and I know this because I know her, Frances Barwood, and I heard the whole story. And he was a, he was a Vietnam vet, and he was on the roof of his house with a tripod

• 2:03:11Speaker 03

  and a camera, and he was trying to get a glimpse, he was trying to film the hell-bad comet. And he had walkie-talkies in, he was monitoring the truck drivers driving up Interstate 10 from Tucson to Phoenix. And so he's monitoring this, and he hears these truckers talking about a massive UFO, and he's like, "Shit, that's heading right towards my house." He was like, "I'll film it." So he had a camera all ready to go, and the object went right over his house, according to him, and he filmed the whole thing. And he goes, "Yeah, I filmed the whole thing. It's pretty spectacular. And I know that you're launching an investigation, Frances Barwood. Would you like to see it?" And she said, "Yeah." So they made arrangements where he was going to drop it off at her office. Either later that day or first thing the next morning, two representatives, and it was July at this point, it was very hot, two men in dark suits showed up at his house, and they said, "Hey, um..."

• 2:03:56Speaker 03

  He was apparently relieved that's all they wanted. He said they were quite menacing looking, didn't really say a lot. They said, "We're from Frances Barwood's office. We're here to pick up that footage." So he gives them the footage. He said, "The only question they ask him is, did they make any copies?" And he said, "No." And so, they take the footage, off they go. Well, he doesn't hear from Frances Barwood. He's like, "What the hell?" So a couple of days go by, I think possibly up to a week, he calls her up and he says, and Frances will tell you this, she'll validate what I'm telling you. He says, "Hey, what'd you think of the footage?" She goes, "Well, what do you mean, 'what did I think of the footage? I never got it.'" "You were gonna drop it off at my office and you didn't show up." He goes, "Well, I didn't have to. You had two men from your office show up and pick it up." She goes, "I didn't send anybody around to your office." And I know, at the time, in the late 90s, I'd heard a couple of stories prior to that.

• 2:04:40Speaker 03

  I thought, "This is too out there. This is too outlandish. No one's gonna believe this. I have no proof of this, other than her testimony. Screw it." And I didn't report on it. But, hearing those cases over and over and over, it's like, "There we go. Once again, the so-called evidence that could prove or disprove, one way or the other, that something truly extraordinary took place in the skies over Phoenix, back in 1997, vanished." But there is some that's slipped between the cracks, that's out there. You just have to do due diligence and there's, I don't have the time to sift through all of it.

• 2:05:10Joe Rogan?

  But those images that we're looking at, they look too clean.

• 2:05:12Speaker 03

  Yeah, I don't know what's AI-generated, or whatever, but I-

• 2:05:15Joe Rogan?

  Or what could have been in a documentary, like a recreation.

• 2:05:18Speaker 03

  I know what I saw features some of the footage. I cover that case extensively. So if anyone's interested in the Phoenix Lights case, that. But I can tell you-

• 2:05:26Joe Rogan?

  How many cited, how many people saw it?

• 2:05:28Speaker 03

  Oh, thousands. Thousands. I talked to another woman, Stacy Rhodes, and her daughter, Emily, and they said they were driving on Interstate 10, and she goes, "Look, James, I'm gonna tell you how big this thing was." I said, "How big is it?" She goes, "First of all, there were people stopped on the freeway, just like, stopped, as this thing, it was like, close encounters, floating over the..." She goes, "I could've held up a newspaper, like this, and looked to the left, looked to the right, looked at..." And she said, "I couldn't block this thing out. That's how big it was. And it didn't make a sound. It was gunmetal black." It was witnessed by a lot of people. That's why I say there's some, some events that have happened over the decades that are pretty brazen. That's one of them. Hudson Valley is pretty brazen as well.

• 2:06:05Joe Rogan?

  I just wish I knew if it was true.

• 2:06:08Speaker 03

  Well, when you get thousands of people seeing the same thing, if you see thousands of people saying the same thing, including the governor.

• 2:06:13Joe Rogan?

  I know. You get so invested in it and you go, what happened?

• 2:06:17Speaker 03

  The governor.

• 2:06:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:19Speaker 03

  The governor.

• 2:06:19Joe Rogan?

  Same guy who came out with a fucking guy dressed up like an alien.

• 2:06:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, but I got him to come clean 10 years later.

• 2:06:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but so, he's already not credible.

• 2:06:26Speaker 03

  Well.

• 2:06:27Joe Rogan?

  He already bullshits. He does. He bullshits. He definitely bullshits.

• 2:06:30Speaker 03

  He definitely bullshits. You're right. You're right. Yeah.

• 2:06:32Joe Rogan?

  So when someone bullshits about that, they might bullshit about anything.

• 2:06:35Speaker 03

  But, well, I, true, yeah, but I mean, I.

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Again, I'm just playing devil's advocate.

• 2:06:40Speaker 03

  No, I hear you. I, I hear, I hear what you're saying and I, I.

• 2:06:43Joe Rogan?

  He hasn't been in the limelight in a while. It's a good thing to talk about now.

• 2:06:46Speaker 03

  There's no smoke without fire. There is so much evidence in terms of eyewitness testimony and radar, some photographic, not as much as we'd like, that something truly inexplicable is taking place in our airspace, right?

• 2:07:04Joe Rogan?

  For sure.

• 2:07:04Speaker 03

  Something that, after careful examination, something that, not because of a lack of data in some instances, but that after careful analysis and research, investigation, that comes out the other end and says, I can't explain this, this is gonna have to be one of those, um, unknowns. Or, you know, falls into that 15% category of, uh, cannot provide a terrestrial or conventional explanation for. And those are the cases that I so desperately have been going after for a long time.

• 2:07:35Joe Rogan?

  So is all this disclosure and those discussions on television now and all these meetings and hearings, does it, so are you think we're on an accelerated path? Do you think this is like, this is all good, right?

• 2:07:47Speaker 03

  I'm convinced of it, yes.

• 2:07:49Joe Rogan?

  But do you think that there's a real possibility, like within the next few years, that they just completely drop all the bullshit and come clean about this stuff? Or would it take some sort of extraordinary event where they had to admit it? Something much bigger than this drone thing?

• 2:08:02Speaker 03

  Um, well, in, in some respects, there has been, I, I, I. Remember I interviewed this guy Nick Pope at the MOD years ago and I was like, this is the time when we were pushing for transparency there. France was was releasing previously classified documents on UFOs. Les ovni, as they'd say. And the MOD followed suit. They were releasing previously classified documents, slowly putting it out there. And at the time was rather exciting. I just did a big event at the National Press Club with Leslie Kane. And and it was like this whole move and it was like, oh, my God, it's happening, right? But it it it kind of petered out a little bit. And I remember asking this guy that used to work the UFO desk at the MOD, Nick Pope. And I said, Nick, do you anticipate this, any type of disclosure? This is like 2009 or something, 2008, 2009.

• 2:08:46Speaker 03

  And he goes, James, no. He goes, it's going to be disclosure with a small d, not a big D. It's going to trickle out slowly. Condition people, get people prepared, test the waters. You know, one of the things that we explore in the program, and I'd never done that, is the politics of disclosure. It's a far more complex. Let's just suspend judgment for a moment and assume that it's real. Okay, that there really is an NHI, a non-human intelligence aspect to the phenomenon. Right? Let's just suggest that's real. Now, how do you disclose that to the general public? What about the impacts on organized religion? What about the impacts on financial institutions? What about the fact that we'd have to confess that we don't have full control over this? I mean, those are real considerations. And it's not just the United States, right? This involves the planet.

• 2:09:31Speaker 03

  This involves all the humanity.

• 2:09:33Joe Rogan?

  I wanted to ask you about this.

• 2:09:34Speaker 03

  Do you see what I'm saying?

• 2:09:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:09:35Speaker 03

  Oh, I do.

• 2:09:35Joe Rogan?

  I totally understand.

• 2:09:37Speaker 03

  It's more complicated, more complex than you think.

• 2:09:38Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I totally get that. What do you, how does Russia handle these things? How does China handle these things?

• 2:09:43Speaker 03

  Well, I, there was a case in China that happened in 1994, right around the time of Ruwa Zimbabwe, also in 1994, called Mengjiao Gua. And it happened in the Black Mountains and it was a landing, alleged contact, close to kind of the third kind. It's funny because it happened right in the same time of Africa. Similar message that was conveyed. I went to China. I met with an active general in uniform, talked openly about the UFO phenomenon. They were pretty open. I went to Russia in the late 90s. And that was right before Putin. It was right around the time when Putin was coming in. And that was a period of openness. And I went to Star City, Russia. I interviewed a cosmonaut Pavel Popovich, a number of generals. And they were very open about it.

• 2:10:28Speaker 03

  In fact, they said to me at the time, if you're here.

• 2:10:33Speaker 03

  To discuss whether or not the UFO phenomenon is real, the doors run over there. We're here to create an international coalition, an international exchange of information, and to talk about the implications of the phenomenon, which I thought was amazing. This is like 25 years ago, right? So, now, I don't know, things have changed since Putin's been in office, but that was back in the late 90s. I mean, there've been congressional hearings in Brazil. There's been, there's been an effort, I mean, shit, they had, they had hearings back in 1978 at United Nations that Lee Spiegel put on, you know? So, there's been an ongoing effort for this stuff to come out. I just think it's different this time. To me, it feels like they're not gonna, uh, there's too much, there's too much momentum behind it at this point, and there's so much legislation that's written, there's too much that's come out, and it's too important.

• 2:11:16Speaker 03

  Look, whether you believe it or you don't believe it, if, if you can just imagine for a moment if it is true, and if the US government does in fact have irrefutable evidence that we're not alone in the universe, that's so significant that we all have a right to that information, and that we should continue to support this unprecedented push for transparency with our elected officials, and get to the fucking bottom of it. Why not?

• 2:11:42Joe Rogan?

  Everybody agrees.

• 2:11:43Speaker 03

  Right?

• 2:11:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I think everybody agrees. I think the general public, no one's gonna disagree with you about that.

• 2:11:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then new administrations coming in, there's, you know, there's Ratcliffe and Rubio, I'm telling you, Rubio knows a lot, I know that.

• 2:11:53Joe Rogan?

  How do you know he knows?

• 2:11:54Speaker 03

  Because I've talked to people that have debriefed him and have been in the room with him during first-

• 2:11:57Joe Rogan?

  You haven't talked to him?

• 2:11:58Speaker 03

  No, I have not. No, I have not, but I talked to people that were in the room when he was being briefed, from first-handers. I'm told that there were, I'm gonna say right around 12 firsthand people that have, that have had behind closed doors meetings, firsthand, uh, people that are concerned about their secrecy, concerned about their safety, concerned about the implications and the, of them coming forward and, um, you know, going, going public, that they're not quite, they don't quite have, and this comes from a very good source of information, that the witness protection program and the legislation that they've created around that is not quite there yet. It's getting closer. They need to continue to work on that.

• 2:12:40Joe Rogan?

  You don't mean like witness protections program, like, I'll put them in hiding?

• 2:12:42Speaker 03

  Whistleblowers, they have whistleblower protection. I'm so sorry, I meant to say that, excuse me. Yeah, whistleblower protection is not quite in place. Um, one of the things I really wanted to mention is that there is a gentleman, a young man who's 30, and he feels like he's old, his name is Jesse Michaels, and he's got this new show called American Alchemy, new, it's a couple of years old.

• 2:13:00Joe Rogan?

  Why does he feel like he's old?

• 2:13:01Speaker 03

  Because you know when you're thirty, you feel like you're old.

• 2:13:03Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:13:03Speaker 03

  Well, I did. When I turned thirty, I was like, I'm thirty, because just ten years earlier, I was almost nineteen, right? Or eleven years earlier, I was nineteen.

• 2:13:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:13:10Speaker 03

  You go from a teenager to suddenly you're thirty, you always think like thirty. And I was talking to him not too long ago, Jesse, and I said, he's like, yeah, I feel a little old. I was like, dude, you are just getting into your prime, baby. This is rock and roll time. And I really wanted to, this is a guy who's young. Julian Dory is also doing some amazing work on this and podcasts. But he was young and is doing a deep dive into the implications and into, he meets with aerospace engineers. The guy's, he's, Jesse, you're a phenomenon. Keep rocking and rolling. I want to tip my hat to you. I don't know if you've seen this guy or not.

• 2:13:40Joe Rogan?

  No, I haven't.

• 2:13:41Speaker 03

  He's doing deep dives into what's happening.

• 2:13:43Joe Rogan?

  Maybe I have.

• 2:13:43Speaker 03

  He's documented it with these podcasts and he's doing a fantastic job. And I just gotta tip my hat to the guy because he's ten times smarter than I'll ever be. And he's young and he's a force to be reckoned with. And he's really doing, he's answering all the questions that you and I are exploring, all these issues that you and I are talking about.

• 2:14:00Joe Rogan?

  Well, I'm glad there's people out there pushing it. And I'm glad there's guys like Grush that are sticking their neck out and guys like you who are making documentaries about it. It's, the, the subject is much more open to discussion, like I was saying, amongst serious people.

• 2:14:12Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 2:14:13Joe Rogan?

  Where it didn't used to be before. And now I think with this drone thing, I think there's so many people that are going, okay, okay, even if they're ours or they're China's or who, what's going on?

• 2:14:22Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:14:22Joe Rogan?

  Why are there so many of them? What are the answers? And why can't you tell us? Is it because they're searching for a nuke? Jesus Christ, maybe you should warn people and get the fuck out of here. Is that really what's going on? Like, if it's not, what is going on? And if it's not ours, what are they? And how come you can't track them? How come, like, what kind of?

• 2:14:41Speaker 03

  Very bizarre.

• 2:14:42Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't even make sense.

• 2:14:43Speaker 03

  It's very, very bizarre.

• 2:14:44Joe Rogan?

  It doesn't make sense when you think of the capabilities of the United States military. It doesn't make any sense. They can't figure out what's going on. I think what Trump said is probably correct, that the government knows. They know what's happening and they don't want to tell people.

• 2:14:56Speaker 03

  Why wouldn't he though? He could tell us. Why wouldn't he tell us?

• 2:14:59Joe Rogan?

  I don't think he knows yet. I think until he gets into office, he was, he gave a speech about it at Mar-a-Lago.

• 2:15:04Speaker 03

  I saw that, I saw that, but did, did he say?

• 2:15:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's watch it. We'll watch it. We'll watch it. Pull the speech up.

• 2:15:10Speaker 03

  Yeah, because I'm wondering if he, yeah, well, we're about to find out.

• 2:15:13Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, essentially, he was saying that he knows that the government knows what's going on. And they're not telling us. And that means they're not telling him.

• 2:15:20Speaker 03

  So they're not telling him?

• 2:15:21Joe Rogan?

  No, I don't, I'll think, until you get into office, you're not the president, right? So he's the president-elect. I don't know what kind of...

• 2:15:27Speaker 03

  Clearances that he has.

• 2:15:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I don't understand how that works.

• 2:15:29Speaker 03

  God, I'd be very curious to know what he knows.

• 2:15:32Joe Rogan?

  Right, especially with this, like, who'd even ask? Like, who is the person that can lay out the information? Like, which department? Which, which agency?

• 2:15:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, right, and it seems like they're so compartmentalized. What about the fear of being at home of the drone?

• 2:15:46Speaker 06

  Thank you, good to see you. Good to see you. Can you comment on the drones that are flying around New Jersey ports? It seems like the American people have a big discount. The govern, the government knows what is happening. Look, our military knows where they took off from. If it's a garage, they can go right into that garage. They know where it came from and where it went. And for some reason, they don't want to comment. And I think they'd be better off saying what it is. Our military knows, and our, our president knows.

• 2:16:18Speaker 03

  Our president knows.

• 2:16:19Speaker 06

  And for some reason, they want to keep people in suspense. I can't imagine it's the enemy, because if it was the enemy, they'd blast it out. Even if they were late, they'd blast it.

• 2:16:29Speaker 06

  Something strange is going on. For some reason, they don't want to tell the people. And they should, because the people are really, I mean, they happen to be over Bedminster. They're very, they're very, they're very close to Bedminster. I think maybe I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster. I've decided to cancel my trip.

• 2:16:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I won't spend the weekend in Bedminster.

• 2:16:50Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:16:51Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:16:53Joe Rogan?

  I bet someone told him, Mr. President, it's pretty important that you don't go to the golf course. Yeah.

• 2:16:59Speaker 03

  God, that's so crazy.

• 2:17:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, so what does that mean? I gotta, I gotta, if, if you don't mind, um...

• 2:17:07Speaker 03

  There, I was contacting, I went to this-

• 2:17:09Joe Rogan?

  Are you gonna switch subjects?

• 2:17:10Speaker 03

  Well, no, no, no, no, no, this is all about exactly what we're talking about. I just, this is something that, that I really need to put out there because it's very important.

• 2:17:17Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:17:17Speaker 03

  And it's an unprecedented effort spearheaded by this woman Andrea, who runs a number of communities on Reddit. And she said that they're banding together for the first time ever, it's the biggest grassroots campaign, for government transparency. This is happening on Friday the 20th of December at 3pm Eastern Time. And this has the potential to reach millions and millions of people. It's the most unprecedented event on Reddit in history. And I'll post all of the necessary information on X, because this is a very grassroots effort. And I'm re-

• 2:17:51Joe Rogan?

  And what are they doing?

• 2:17:53Speaker 03

  @jamescfox on X, formerly known as Twitter. It's, uh, the Reddit community is banding together for a huge grassroots campaign for government transparency. So basically, all the various platforms on Reddit, like paranormal, UFO, they're all, they don't usually get along too well, but they're all combining their resources and they're getting together for the first time ever. And to push for government transparency, there's a couple of government insiders that appear in my film that will be appearing on this to answer questions. And what steps need to be happening, what's going on today? And, and this is happening on the 20th of December, 3pm, and I'll be posting more information, the very specific details, on X, @jamescfox. I just wanted to get that out there before, because-

• 2:18:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, the more of this stuff that happens, the better. The more people demand it, the better. The more politicians hear from the people and want to, I mean, especially politicians that are up for reelection, and they want to show that they're doing what the people want them to do. Yeah, I'm, I'd like to know more, but obviously, I'm very happy that we're hearing much more about this subject in a serious way.

• 2:19:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:19:01Joe Rogan?

  You know, whatever the hell's going on.

• 2:19:03Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, I, I, I, I really encourage you to watch the program.

• 2:19:06Joe Rogan?

  I will, 100%.

• 2:19:07Speaker 03

  I went bent over backwards to put together and, and, and explain everything in layman's terms. What's happened from 2017 to today because it's unprecedented. We're living in an unprecedented moment in history. There's an unprecedented push for government transparency. And I want to continue supporting our elected officials bipartisan effort to get to the bottom of this. And I especially want to throw a shot out to Representative Burchett because you're, you're killing it, buddy.

• 2:19:33Joe Rogan?

  Hey, Jamie, why don't you use ChatGPT and ask ChatGPT what's going on with the drones in New Jersey?

• 2:19:39Speaker 03

  I'd be very curious to hear about that.

• 2:19:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:19:41Speaker 03

  It's a damn good idea.

• 2:19:42Joe Rogan?

  And maybe then ask Rock, but, uh,

• 2:19:46Joe Rogan?

  uh, ask ChatGPT, what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey? Let's just see what ChatGPT says.

• 2:19:55Speaker 03

  So, so tell me how that works.

• 2:19:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't know, we'll find out.

• 2:19:57Speaker 03

  It's AI, right?

• 2:19:59Joe Rogan?

  And what is really happening with the drones in New Jersey? Let's see. So what does ChatGPT say? ChatGPT is going to search the web.

• 2:20:11Speaker 03

  Oh, this is amazing.

• 2:20:12Joe Rogan?

  Numerous drone sightings have been reported across New Jersey and other east coast. It, it's incredible how fast this is. Look how fast. Look at this. This is incredible. They found no evidence suggesting threat to national security or public safety. Despite these assurances, some local officials and residents remain concerned. For instance, Belleville Mayor Michael Melham speculated the increased drone activity might be related to a search for missing radioactive material from the medical facility in New Jersey. Additionally, the public figures like Bethany Frankel have shared unverified theories about the drone's purposes. Further fueling speculation, the situation is evolving and authorities continue to monitor and investigate new reports. Residents are advised to report any suspicious drone activity to local law enforcement and avoid taking matters into their own hands, like shooting them down. People are shooting them down.

• 2:20:56Joe Rogan?

  Uh, so they're shooting them down, they're eating the dogs. They're eating the cats. Shooting down drones, uh, as it could pose safety risks and violate laws. Um, now ask ChatGPT. You want to ask Rock or no? Oh, let's just keep going with ChatGPT for a little bit because you're asking it again. Um, ask ChatGPT, if I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town?

• 2:21:21Speaker 03

  Are you serious?

• 2:21:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. If I live in New Jersey, should I get out of town?

• 2:21:27Speaker 03

  Should I evacuate?

• 2:21:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, should I evacuate? You'll say evacuate, because get out of town is like a colloquialism. Should I evacuate?

• 2:21:36Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:21:36Speaker 03

  This is amazing.

• 2:21:37Joe Rogan?

  At this time, there's no official recommendation for residents in New Jersey. Uh huh. Follow official updates. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay. As a precautionary measure.

• 2:21:50Speaker 03

  Are you sure?

• 2:21:50Joe Rogan?

  Are you sure?

• 2:21:52Speaker 01

  Sometimes you always have to ask it.

• 2:21:54Joe Rogan?

  No federal evacuation orders. Okay, it knows that there's no federal evacuation orders. If you were gonna give me advice,

• 2:22:04Joe Rogan?

  would you tell me to leave the East Coast?

• 2:22:15Joe Rogan?

  Advice is fucked up.

• 2:22:18Speaker 03

  There we go.

• 2:22:20Joe Rogan?

  Based on the current information provided by trusted authorities, there's no evidence of an imminent threat. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Could you imagine? Put this in. Could you imagine a scenario

• 2:22:35Joe Rogan?

  where these drones are actually looking for a nuclear bomb?

• 2:22:43Joe Rogan?

  And if so,

• 2:22:46Joe Rogan?

  would you advise me as a preemptive measure

• 2:22:54Joe Rogan?

  to evacuate?

• 2:23:00Joe Rogan?

  I type so much worse when people are watching.

• 2:23:02Speaker 03

  I'm so impressed at how well he's typing, actually. I really am.

• 2:23:06Joe Rogan?

  While it's possible to imagine scenarios involving drones searching for dangerous materials such as a nuclear bomb, there's no verified information suggesting such an extreme situation. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, I, how about this? I think, type this in.

• 2:23:22Speaker 01

  I was if I put it in Grok in fun mode, we might get a better answer.

• 2:23:24Joe Rogan?

  But hold on a second, but try this.

• 2:23:25Speaker 03

  Is there a non-human intelligence behind?

• 2:23:27Joe Rogan?

  Listen, I think the drones are looking for a nuclear bomb, and I am going to leave New Jersey.

• 2:23:38Joe Rogan?

  Where should I go?

• 2:23:41Speaker 03

  Tell Montana.

• 2:23:42Joe Rogan?

  How far away should I go? Oh, that's okay. Leaving New Jersey is a precautionary measure. Here are some suggestions for place to relocate temporarily.

• 2:23:49Speaker 03

  Texas, you're doing good.

• 2:23:50Joe Rogan?

  Head west. Okay, so now we're getting better. So now it's saying go further away.

• 2:23:54Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:23:55Joe Rogan?

  Colorado, consider, scroll back to up, so I can read that, where it said Colorado. Consider Durango, Grand Junction, or areas outside of Denver. These are safe and equipped with modern infrastructure.

• 2:24:06Speaker 03

  Almost got you.

• 2:24:07Joe Rogan?

  They're telling you to move, this is telling you to get away from big cities.

• 2:24:10Speaker 03

  Durango.

• 2:24:11Joe Rogan?

  Tennessee, the Smoky Mountain region, and Gatlinburg or Knoxville provides natural beauty, lower cost of living, and a sense of isolation. They're telling you how to rebuild civilization. Okay, if a nuke goes off.

• 2:24:22Speaker 03

  Where to go?

• 2:24:23Joe Rogan?

  If a, if a nuke goes off on the east coast, type this in, Jamie. If a nuke goes off on the east coast.

• 2:24:35Joe Rogan?

  Where should I be to be safe?

• 2:24:41Speaker 03

  Oh my gosh.

• 2:24:42Joe Rogan?

  If you're concerned about potential nuclear incident, here's a list of safest options based on geographic, environmental, and strategic factors. Montana, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, sparsely populated, vast distances from major cities and military targets. Towns like Bozeman, Jackson Hole, Sandpoint are beautiful, remote, and away from the fallout paths. Jesus Christ.

• 2:25:04Speaker 03

  I'm curious, what would happen if you asked Chat GBT, is it?

• 2:25:09Joe Rogan?

  GPT.

• 2:25:10Speaker 03

  GPT, if, what percentage of UAP represent a non-human intelligence?

• 2:25:16Joe Rogan?

  Okay, that's a good one. What percentage of UAP

• 2:25:24Joe Rogan?

  represent a non-human intelligence?

• 2:25:28Speaker 03

  Really curious.

• 2:25:30Speaker 01

  I was just pulling it from the internet.

• 2:25:31Joe Rogan?

  I know, but let's see what it says.

• 2:25:34Joe Rogan?

  Could represent non-human intelligence remains unknown and speculative. Current investigations by UAP organizations like the US government. Da-da-da-da-da. Emphasize the following: most UAPs have conventional explanations. Oh, this is project bl- bl- bl- bullshit.

• 2:25:47Speaker 03

  So, percent of, five or 10% of UAP cases remain unidentified even after thorough analysis. These cases, I was like fifteen to twenty, but yeah, five to 10%.

• 2:25:56Joe Rogan?

  Evidence inconsistent with known human technology, no conclusive evidence for non-human intelligence. While some UAP cases are public puzzling the government as not officially... Okay. Commander, type this in. Commander David Fravor encountered a Tik-Tok, a Tic-Tac.

• 2:26:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:26:20Joe Rogan?

  Tic-Tac-shaped craft in 2005. Well, 2004, 2004.

• 2:26:29Speaker 03

  2003, 2003.

• 2:26:29Joe Rogan?

  Okay, 2003. That defied our understanding of known physics. Period. What do you think he saw?

• 2:26:47Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:26:49Joe Rogan?

  2004, I'm sorry. Tic-Tac-shaped craft remains one of the most compelling and well-documented UAP cases in modern history. Key details of the encounter: craft describes smooth, white, oblong, resembling a Tic-Tac. No visible propulsion, wings or exhausts, played extraordinary flight characteristics. Accelerated instantly from a hovering position, descended from 80,000 feet to near sea level in seconds. Fravor reported the object mimicked his movements during their engagement and then vanished at extreme speed. It's possible the craft was an ultra-secret military project, either US-based experimental aircraft, aerospace technology, or developed by another nation. However, the extreme flight performance raises doubts. Such advanced technology would suggest a significant leap beyond publicly known capabilities,

• 2:27:33Joe Rogan?

  which is inconsistent with current engineering limits. Sensor anomaly or perception issues? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:27:40Speaker 03

  I asked the heads of Arrow if they could explain that one, and they said no.

• 2:27:45Joe Rogan?

  If, don't, type this in.

• 2:27:48Speaker 03

  Really good case.

• 2:27:50Joe Rogan?

  If all accounts of the capabilities of the Tic-Tac craft...

• 2:28:03Joe Rogan?

  Are true.

• 2:28:08Joe Rogan?

  What are the possibilities? That it came from another planet?

• 2:28:26Speaker 03

  If the accounts of the craft capabilities are accurate, instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without propulsion, no heat.

• 2:28:32Joe Rogan?

  Say it loud so people can hear you.

• 2:28:34Speaker 03

  Okay, so if the accounts of the Tic Tac's craft's capabilities are accurate, instantaneous acceleration, hypersonic speeds without visible propulsion, no heat signatures, and defiance of inertia, then the possibilities of origin being extraterrestrial or from another planet become a viable hypothesis.

• 2:28:52Joe Rogan?

  Here's why. The physics of the Tic Tac craft, reported behavior of the craft suggests technology that operates beyond our current understanding of physics and propulsion systems. No visible propulsion, it implies propulsion system unrelated to conventional jets or rockets. Instantaneous acceleration defies inertia in Newtonian physics. Achieving this would require manipulating gravity or spacetime itself. Silent operation, no sonic booms despite hypersonic speeds points to a technology that likely eliminates air resistance such as surrounding itself in an electromagnetic field or bubble. This level of technological advancement far surpasses anything developed on Earth.

• 2:29:30Joe Rogan?

  If true, such capabilities would suggest a highly advanced civilization, perhaps thousands or millions of years ahead of us scientifically. If true, where do you think it came from?

• 2:29:41Speaker 03

  And this was 20 years ago.

• 2:29:45Joe Rogan?

  I know, but if true, where do you think it came from? If, how about this? It's still typing.

• 2:29:53Speaker 03

  Final thoughts, look at this, writing a whole turn paper on this.

• 2:29:56Joe Rogan?

  It's amazing how fast it does it too. It's amazing how fast it does it. Tic Tac, if the Tic Tac UAP is real and the accounts are accurate, then its origin may very well be extraterrestrial or involve unknown physics and technology that we haven't begun to comprehend. The extraordinary nature of the case suggests an equally extraordinary explanation. What do you think? Why are you asking me, bitch? You're ChatGPT. Does extraterrestrial visitation seem plausible? Or is there another explanation that resonates more with you? So type this. I believe.

• 2:30:29Joe Rogan?

  It seems plausible that they are extraterrestrial in nature.

• 2:30:39Speaker 03

  Good luck. I was gonna say.

• 2:30:41Joe Rogan?

  If true, comma, if true.

• 2:30:46Joe Rogan?

  Where do you think they came from?

• 2:30:53Joe Rogan?

  Let's see.

• 2:30:55Joe Rogan?

  Identifying where they might come from involves exploring nearby stellar systems, known exoplanets, and plausible scientific ideas about interstellar travel. Here are the most likely possibilities. Nearby star systems with habitable zones. Alpha Centauri system, 4.37 light years away, closest star system to Earth, Proxima Centauri.

• 2:31:15Joe Rogan?

  Potentially habitable planet, exoplanet, orbiting Proxima Centauri within the habitable zone. If life developed there, it might be technologically advanced enough for interstellar exploration. So it's giving me a list of all.

• 2:31:27Speaker 03

  The potential possibilities.

• 2:31:29Joe Rogan?

  Possible star systems. This one's only 39 light years away.

• 2:31:33Speaker 03

  What was the closest one? Alpha Centauri, was that? Was that four light years or something?

• 2:31:38Joe Rogan?

  I don't know. Scroll back up.

• 2:31:39Speaker 03

  Scroll back up a little bit.

• 2:31:41Joe Rogan?

  3.9 million, 4.3.

• 2:31:43Speaker 03

  Alpha Centauri, 4.3 light years away. Wow. But here's the crazy part.

• 2:31:47Joe Rogan?

  Pretty close.

• 2:31:48Speaker 03

  Remember the twin paradox theory? They say that if you get like two twins, right, as kids, say one's 10, they're both 10. And you put one in a spaceship that travels the speed of light for one year. He would come back with an atomic clock onboard that spacecraft, a year old, or he'd be 11, and his brother would be an old man. I can't wrap my mind around that.

• 2:32:12Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:32:13Speaker 03

  But they say it's pretty much fact.

• 2:32:15Joe Rogan?

  But that's speed, right? I think what we're talking about is different than speed. I think it's instantaneous, instantaneous relocation.

• 2:32:23Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:32:23Joe Rogan?

  So I think instead, yeah, I think instead of like.

• 2:32:26Speaker 03

  Manipulate the space time between the two points?

• 2:32:28Joe Rogan?

  Right. So I think the idea is that instead of a rocket that goes, you know, 5 million miles an hour, just shoots off of Earth and keeps going until, you know, 5 million years from now, it runs into this planet. I think it's different than that. I think what, if I had to guess. Where something can manipulate gravity and space, what it would do is instantaneously appear in these new places.

• 2:32:55Speaker 03

  And you've talked to a lot of physicists about this kind of stuff, huh?

• 2:32:58Joe Rogan?

  I have, and the way they explain it is baffling. And Bob Lazar's version of it is baffling, because Bob Lazar's version of it, that he told in 1989, kind of makes sense when you talk to people that are trying to develop some sort of a gravity or warp drive.

• 2:33:16Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:33:17Joe Rogan?

  And the way Bob Lazar explained it is that this element, when bombarded with radiation, creates this, I'm really butchering it for sure, creates some sort of a gravity field that allows it, the way he described it, like, if you took a mattress, a very soft mattress, and put a very heavy bowling ball in the middle of the mattress, it pushes the mattress down to that area, and that this like folds time.

• 2:33:41Speaker 03

  Right, so you go from here to here, but when you stretch it down, suddenly those two points connect.

• 2:33:45Joe Rogan?

  It folds it, yeah.

• 2:33:46Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:33:47Joe Rogan?

  And so wherever it is, it's here. So it's not like it's going a million light years, a million light years an hour, yeah.

• 2:33:55Speaker 03

  Space is malleable.

• 2:33:56Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:33:57Speaker 03

  It's just...

• 2:33:58Joe Rogan?

  Well, it makes sense, if you think about how technology scales, and if we do, I mean, Ryan brought up this yesterday as well, that there was research, and there was papers written about the idea of having some sort of a gravity drive, or having some sort of a gravity propulsion system, something that doesn't rely on conventional, you know, rockets, pushing gases out the back.

• 2:34:21Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're not doing it, jet fuel, that's for sure.

• 2:34:22Joe Rogan?

  Exactly. And he said that this was something that was discussed a long time ago, but then it just stopped. And, you know, and we brought it up a long, quite a while ago, there was an episode that we brought up, a paper that was written in the 1960s about gravity drives.

• 2:34:35Speaker 03

  Was that by Hal Puthoff?

• 2:34:36Joe Rogan?

  I do not know.

• 2:34:37Speaker 03

  Because he's like a propulsion expert in terms of the propulsion behind, the physics behind UFOs.

• 2:34:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:43Speaker 03

  And he tried to, I tried to get him to explain it to me in sort of conventional, layman terms, and of course, my tiny little brain, but he, I felt like I almost grasped it for a moment, but the time, the amount of power that it would take to create that gravitational field around the object, and he said, that's why you see them doing these maneuvers that look like it defy physics, right? And then everything inside the craft would just splatter, that you're immune from that on the inside, according.

• 2:35:09Joe Rogan?

  Which also would make sense.

• 2:35:10Speaker 03

  I'm so not a physicist, what am I talking about?

• 2:35:12Joe Rogan?

  Right, but that would also make sense if you had something like that, that you could go in the ocean as well. Right?

• 2:35:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, so.

• 2:35:17Joe Rogan?

  Because whatever's around you, it wouldn't matter. Because you're not affected by it.

• 2:35:21Speaker 03

  Right, you're somehow creating a field around you.

• 2:35:23Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:35:24Speaker 03

  That's immune to whatever.

• 2:35:25Joe Rogan?

  Right, that would be the only thing that would make sense, how it could move so fast underwater.

• 2:35:29Speaker 03

  Atmosphere, space, water.

• 2:35:31Joe Rogan?

  And how it would be transmedium.

• 2:35:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:35:33Joe Rogan?

  You can go from space into the water, it's unaffected by gravity, it's unaffected by all the things around it, it creates its own gravity field. And it allows it to just pass through things.

• 2:35:42Speaker 03

  I remember Kirk McConnell, who sent an Armed Services Committee who investigated UFOs from 2017, I talked about him earlier. But he said that they were picking up, Aegis Radar Systems were picking these objects up from, basically from space. And they were shooting down from space, all the way down, they'd loiter for as long as they wanted to. Go in the water, come back out again, shoot back up into space, and they would just do it, like.

• 2:36:06Speaker 03

  You know, all day long, and there was nothing.

• 2:36:08Joe Rogan?

  Well, we can't see that, right? And if someone does have, I mean, if there's someone in the military that does have some like, super advanced satellite reconnaissance imagery of these things.

• 2:36:22Joe Rogan?

  I could see why they would hold that back. I could see why they would think that people aren't ready for that. I could see it.

• 2:36:27Speaker 03

  Do you think Elon knows?

• 2:36:29Joe Rogan?

  He's real cagey about it.

• 2:36:30Speaker 03

  He is cagey about it, and he's got deals with the DOD and he's got satellites and everything?

• 2:36:35Joe Rogan?

  That's probably why. I'd be cagey about it too.

• 2:36:37Speaker 03

  He knows more than what he's saying.

• 2:36:39Joe Rogan?

  This is what he said, "If aliens are real, they're very subtle." That's what he was saying. I was like, "I don't know if they're subtle, man. The Phoenix Lights wasn't that subtle, if that's aliens."

• 2:36:48Speaker 03

  I heard from some people around him that, that because of his contracts with DOD, that he kinda keeps quiet about it because.

• 2:36:55Joe Rogan?

  I'm sure.

• 2:36:55Speaker 03

  Everybody talks about, I mean, even Ratcliffe talked about the satellite imagery of UAP. I mean, if they're picking it up, why wouldn't his systems pick it up?

• 2:37:04Joe Rogan?

  He hasn't said a peep about the drone thing.

• 2:37:06Speaker 03

  And you haven't asked him about it?

• 2:37:07Joe Rogan?

  Nope. If he wants to tell me, he'll tell me. I'm not gonna be that guy. I'm not gonna be annoying. But publicly, like on X, has he said anything about the drones?

• 2:37:17Speaker 01

  Said something a couple of weeks ago, I believe, I think it was a couple of weeks ago. I'll check right now, but it's like there's a big drone storm or a big drone fight coming. And people were taking that as like he knew this was happening.

• 2:37:27Speaker 03

  Hmm, a big drone fight coming?

• 2:37:30Joe Rogan?

  Well, you know, he's been real public about the idea that building manned fighter jets is at this point kind of foolish, you know, and he's, I think he's correct, um, you know.

• 2:37:41Speaker 03

  So unpiloted only?

• 2:37:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, I think.

• 2:37:44Speaker 03

  Takes the fun out of it.

• 2:37:45Joe Rogan?

  Well, it takes the biological mistakes out of it is what it does.

• 2:37:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 2:37:48Joe Rogan?

  It takes the human mind out. The human mind is very fallible. You know, we already know that AI systems, like Mike Baker explained to us that AI systems with fighter jets beat actual fighter jet pilots 100% of the time. So when they have this simulated, yes, when they have these simulated dogfights. When they take AI fighter jets that we have right now, they beat our fighter jet pilots, the best of the best 100% of the time. So they don't have any biological limitations in terms of what, what they can deal with.

• 2:38:18Speaker 03

  They can sustain, right, yes, yeah.

• 2:38:20Joe Rogan?

  So you have that, right? So all you have to do is make the equipment and the materials, uh, robust enough so they can take insane speeds and not blow apart. But it certainly would be way easier to do that than it would be to get a human being to be safe in it.

• 2:38:34Speaker 03

  So much less badass though.

• 2:38:36Joe Rogan?

  So what does he say? Oh, so he clicked on it. Future wars are all about drones and hypersonic jets. So this is us talking about that. This is us talking about, uh, fighter jet pilots by humans will be destroyed very quickly. So he talked about it, so he put a clip up of us talking about it on the podcast. This was in November, November 28th. And so, uh, neither side is air superiority and tanks are easily destroyed by missiles. So that leaves infantry and artillery, basically World War I. Drones are not yet available in sufficient numbers to matter, much like aircraft in World War I. A defense in-depth trench war means, and then some modern example.

• 2:39:11Speaker 01

  That was like two years ago.

• 2:39:12Speaker 03

  So did you get the impression when you spoke to Elon about UFOs that he knew more than he was telling you? You said he's cagey?

• 2:39:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he doesn't, he, he doesn't even entertain the idea of UFOs.

• 2:39:23Speaker 03

  So if you bring up the Fravor incident, he'll just say, no, it didn't happen or that's?

• 2:39:27Joe Rogan?

  Doesn't seem interested. I don't know. I mean, I would imagine what you're saying is true, that it's not wise for him to discuss it. That's what I would imagine.

• 2:39:35Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:35Joe Rogan?

  If he wants to tell me, he'll tell me. And if he wants me to tell no one, I'll tell no one.

• 2:39:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:39Joe Rogan?

  If he wants to tell me and say, don't tell anybody, I'll, I won't tell anybody. But I'm not gonna ask him. I, I think his position as, you know, being the guy at SpaceX.

• 2:39:50Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:39:50Joe Rogan?

  Why would you fuck around with that?

• 2:39:52Speaker 03

  He's got too much at stake.

• 2:39:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he has way too much at stake. Also, like, if anybody's gonna find out, he's gonna find out. If there, there's something going on, if something legitimately going on. Uh, the guy who can catch rockets with a crane, he, that's the guy, he's gonna know.

• 2:40:06Speaker 03

  I thought the first time I saw that, I thought it was like AI generated.

• 2:40:08Joe Rogan?

  It seems fake.

• 2:40:09Speaker 03

  I was watching the thing come down and I just thought that's.

• 2:40:11Joe Rogan?

  The ones that land before that, those are insane. And now you can catch them? They don't even have to land? It's nuts. Like, what he's done is just accelerate what we are, are capable of doing far beyond what NASA was able to do just a few years ago, so.

• 2:40:25Speaker 03

  I used, I used to have a neighbor that worked for Elon Musk and he drove a Tesla way early, way early on when Teslas weren't, you know, that many out there. And I was like, whoa, you got a Tesla? He's like, yeah, I actually work for Elon Musk, blah, blah. And I saw him a couple of years later and I was like, hey, you're not driving Tesla anymore? And he goes, no, he goes, I, I, I don't work for Elon anymore. I was like, oh, I'm sorry to hear that. What happened? And he goes, he goes, well, he's, he works so hard and his expectations are so high. He goes, I was at the hospital with my wife, giving, as she was giving birth to our first child. And Elon's like, I need you in the office.

• 2:40:56Joe Rogan?

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 2:40:58Speaker 03

  He said, he said, he goes, I, I could, I, you know, a guy's got an incredible work ethic, work ethic, but it was too much. He goes, I, I'm at the hospital, I don't care where you, where you at, just to work. It's like pretty brutal.

• 2:41:11Joe Rogan?

  That's brutal.

• 2:41:12Speaker 03

  Wasn't he sleeping in the, he was sleeping in the?

• 2:41:14Joe Rogan?

  Sure, yeah, he was, uh, sleeping, uh, working 16 hours a day and sleeping on the floor.

• 2:41:18Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 2:41:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:41:19Speaker 03

  That's commitment.

• 2:41:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, he demands out of other people too. And, you know, maybe you want that, maybe you don't. And if you don't, you can't work there. It's just that simple. Like, if you want that, hop on in. If you're a single guy and you don't have a wife, you don't have children.

• 2:41:33Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:33Joe Rogan?

  But if you do, oh boy, that's not a life for, that's not a life for me. I don't want that job.

• 2:41:38Speaker 03

  I think the closest thing to a spaceship on wheels is a Tesla.

• 2:41:41Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they're amazing.

• 2:41:42Speaker 03

  Pretty remarkable.

• 2:41:43Joe Rogan?

  I've had three of them. This is my third.

• 2:41:44Speaker 03

  The acceleration is just, it's like a gut punch.

• 2:41:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and they're getting better. They're getting, the autonomous driving is incredible now.

• 2:41:52Speaker 03

  I remember once somebody said to me, they were like, you know, step on the, you know, show me the acceleration. And I, I stepped on it, a Model 3 Performance, um, and uh,

• 2:42:00Joe Rogan?

  It seems fake.

• 2:42:01Speaker 03

  I got nauseous.

• 2:42:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:02Speaker 03

  I, I wasn't quite ready. I was like, I turned myself a little sideways or something. I, I felt nauseous. I was like, wow, I'm, I ride motorcycles. I would do all this. I was like, you know, but I, it's like, now I prepare myself for that. That's really fa, that's superbike fast.

• 2:42:14Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy fast. And it can actually, the beautiful thing is you can merge on the highway and you don't seem like a douchebag. Cause you're not like, baaah! It's not like really loud.

• 2:42:22Speaker 03

  Just super quiet, all stealthy. Yeah.

• 2:42:25Joe Rogan?

  It's all of a sudden it's going a hundred miles an hour. Like, what happened?

• 2:42:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, I remember I got a ticket years ago on a motorcycle and I, the guy that bought the bike was, had a loud exhaust pipe, which I ended up getting rid of. I didn't like the loud exhaust pipe. It's too loud. And I got pulled over and the cop never even saw me. He just heard me. And he wrote me up exactly how fast I was going. He's like, you're doing ninety to thirty-five. I'm like, I was? He's like, oh yeah, I could hear you. I was like, I went up through the gears and I put it quiet. So yeah, that's, uh, quiet is nice. Quiet has its benefits.

• 2:42:53Joe Rogan?

  Well, it doesn't in a motorcycle though. You wanna be loud so people don't hate you.

• 2:42:56Speaker 03

  That's true. But I drive like the invisible man when I'm on a motorcycle. You have to.

• 2:43:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:43:00Speaker 03

  You, you, I've had people look me right in the eyes and they pulled right out in front of me.

• 2:43:04Joe Rogan?

  People want to. They don't care.

• 2:43:05Speaker 03

  T-boned, side swiped.

• 2:43:06Joe Rogan?

  And also people are like, how many people are medicated?

• 2:43:09Speaker 03

  I don't think they see you as a threat. I think they see you as like, oh, you're almost like a gnat or something. I've learned, and I tell people that ride motorcycles, I've been riding bikes for fifty years. As soon as you get on that bike, you become the invisible man. Right?

• 2:43:21Joe Rogan?

  Right. Pretend no one can see you.

• 2:43:23Speaker 03

  Pretend that no one can see you. You'll live a lot longer. You can make eye contact with somebody, doesn't mean they see you.

• 2:43:28Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:43:28Speaker 03

  I've had people pull out in front of me. Like I said, I've been T-boned and all kinds of crazy accidents over the years.

• 2:43:32Joe Rogan?

  I wish they weren't so dangerous, cause I would love to drive one.

• 2:43:35Speaker 03

  Oh, they're amazing. I know. You just have to be, like I said, you just, you know.

• 2:43:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, until you're not. I had three friends. I, I was, I was getting my motorcycle license. So I was doing, it was a while ago.

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  Ten years?

• 2:43:45Joe Rogan?

  So it was a couple of us that worked on Fear Factor, a couple of the guys that worked on the set. We all decided to go and take lessons together. And shout out to Peter Hirschko. And he wound up getting his motorcycle, he kept driving it. And, but, one of the guys we worked with, he crashed his bike and fucked up his shoulder. And then one of the guys who was fighting for the UFC, Frank Mir, he got hit by a car. He got T-boned and ran into his femur, snapped his femur, and he almost lost his leg. His leg was, and it fucked up his career for years. So there was that, and then I saw a guy on the highway that was covered in a blanket.

• 2:44:23Speaker 03

  Oh, God.

• 2:44:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, he was alive, you could see, but his, his leg was so fucked up that they covered it in a blanket so the passerby wouldn't rubberneck it. There's three of those. And then another friend of mine saw someone get hit, saw someone get rear-ended, someone not paying attention in their car, rear-ended a bike and had the guy flying through the air at a red light. So, that was enough for me.

• 2:44:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, I know, I became a dad and I had two motorcycles right before I became a dad and I sold them. And then after ten years, I was like, maybe I could get just like a dirt bike? Cause I really enjoy riding. There's nothing like it, being on a motorcycle.

• 2:44:55Joe Rogan?

  Imagine if you got a dirt bike and then a mountain lion takes you out? God damn it.

• 2:44:58Speaker 03

  I have a dirt bike with a motor.

• 2:45:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but even with a motor. I don't know if a mountain lion would be scared of a motor.

• 2:45:04Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd be able to outrun it, but yeah, depending on where you were.

• 2:45:07Joe Rogan?

  I think most of the time they get bicyclers.

• 2:45:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's crazy.

• 2:45:09Joe Rogan?

  Most of the time they kill bicyclers.

• 2:45:11Speaker 03

  It's, it's nuts.

• 2:45:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:45:13Speaker 03

  So, so let me ask your honest opinion. I know we're wrapping up here.

• 2:45:17Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:45:19Speaker 03

  If you had to say whether you believed or you didn't believe, and, look, you can't make any definitive statements, I get that, but you're a very influential individual. Who's done more for the push for disclosure, I hate to use the word disclosure, it's got a bit of a buzz, a bit of a connection to it, a push for government transparency on this topic, right? If you had to say something truly inexplicable that most likely would lead to NHI or non-human intelligence, or not conventional, what would you pick ultimately that you think there is possibly a non-human intelligence behind this, or that there is not?

• 2:45:55Joe Rogan?

  I wish I could be definitive like that.

• 2:45:57Speaker 03

  I know, you can't be definitive.

• 2:45:58Joe Rogan?

  I don't. I try to stay as open-minded on this as possible, which means I fluctuate back and forth to fully believe, from fully believing to fully believing it's a military experiment, and that it's a bunch of our stuff. But then there's stories like the things, like the Tic Tac, and where you go, okay, 2004? How? How do they, how could they do that in 2004? Is there a propulsion system available in 2004 that's that far advanced? And if so, how come there's so little evidence of it in like, in a practical use? Like, how come that technology, you would think that technology would take so much money to develop, that you would do something with it in 20 years?

• 2:46:40Joe Rogan?

  You wouldn't just have it and just be flying it around like a drone every now and again. It would seem like there'd be some sort of a practical application for something like that. And it seemed like, like the Manhattan Project, and like the stealth bomber, eventually you find out that it's a real thing, right? So 20 years is a long time to not find out that something's real.

• 2:47:00Speaker 03

  Well, how about if we take it up to a lot longer than that? What about the 1952, two consecutive weekends in July over the White House and the Capitol? And that was, we had a press conference about that. A guy in general that basically admitted that they're real.

• 2:47:15Joe Rogan?

  Kenneth Arnold, you know, those stories.

• 2:47:17Speaker 03

  That was phenomenal, yeah.

• 2:47:18Joe Rogan?

  And then you gotta go to the Bhagavad Gita, you know? Like, there's, there's stories of things.

• 2:47:23Speaker 03

  The historical stuff's incredible, isn't it?

• 2:47:25Joe Rogan?

  Like, think of the guy that showed up with the blue skin. Is that an angel? Is that a devil? Like, what, if, if you were living 4,000 years ago, you're one of the people that wrote the Dead Sea Scrolls.

• 2:47:34Speaker 03

  He'd be a god.

• 2:47:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, what is that? What is that visitation that you've experienced?

• 2:47:38Speaker 03

  With a craft, it would be, connected with a god, right?

• 2:47:41Joe Rogan?

  Right. And also the story, when you tell the story, like, what is this, and then someone illustrates it, what is even, how does it even relay in? Words, especially you're using the words of 4,000 years ago. What are you describing? And if they really have always been here and they've always been visiting us, that's probably how you would describe it. You would describe it like Ezekiel did in the Bible.

• 2:48:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, well, you know, I was in Africa investigating the alleged landing and Close Encounters of the Third Kind at Ruwuzembabwe Aerial School in 1994. I wasn't there in 94, I was there much later. And the teacher, Judy Bates, who's now the head principal. And she was sharing with me these drawings that children did of the alleged creatures. And they were amazing, these drawings, big eyes and big heads, almond shaped eyes, blah, blah, blah. And I'm looking at these drawings, one after the other, from all these schoolchildren, it was phenomenal. She gave, no, I took photographs of them. And then, a month later, I went to Australia and I was investigating an alleged landing that happened at Westall Primary School in 1966.

• 2:48:44Speaker 03

  And that was incredible, I was there investigating and I was showing some of the drawings of the aliens, the alleged aliens, and I just had investigated in Africa. And some of the people were like, "Oh, wow, these drawings are amazing, they look like the Wanjina cave art." I was like, "The what?" The Wanjina cave art, the Aboriginals drew these things, and so they pulled it up, Wanjina. And the parallel, they're thousands of years old, right? These cave paintings in Australia, the parallels, the consistencies, the, it was, the comparison of the two was like...

• 2:49:14Joe Rogan?

  Let's take a look at those real quick.

• 2:49:15Speaker 03

  Yeah, look up Wanjina...

• 2:49:17Joe Rogan?

  Before we leave.

• 2:49:18Speaker 03

  Cave painting, UFO or alien, Wanjina.

• 2:49:22Joe Rogan?

  Most likely something there, I just don't know, and if it's a thing, so let's say if it's a real thing. Is it from another planet, or is it more complicated than that?

• 2:49:31Speaker 03

  I think it's more complicated than that.

• 2:49:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, that's chockeys.

• 2:49:34Speaker 03

  See that?

• 2:49:34Joe Rogan?

  Yes, yeah, very bizarre.

• 2:49:36Speaker 03

  Right? I mean, look at that one right there with the dark eyes.

• 2:49:39Joe Rogan?

  Look at the three of them, and that, the one in the center, Jamie, yeah, that one. Look how weird that is, man. That's so fucking weird.

• 2:49:46Speaker 03

  Look at the one with the dark, black eyes, right up there.

• 2:49:48Joe Rogan?

  Look how pale they are, too.

• 2:49:50Speaker 03

  It's like...

• 2:49:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's very weird.

• 2:49:52Speaker 03

  And then there's that one with the big, with the big, dark eyes, right, down, just goes straight down, up, down, yeah, right, up to the right? Right there. Look at that.

• 2:49:59Joe Rogan?

  Very weird, very weird. And it's also very weird how this is 4,000 years old, and then Close Encounters of the Third Kind, the 1970s.

• 2:50:08Speaker 03

  4,000 years old, and I'm telling you, I could show you the drawings. One of the witnesses...

• 2:50:17Joe Rogan?

  Very weird.

• 2:50:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's just phenomenal.

• 2:50:19Joe Rogan?

  Listen, man, thank you for everything. Thanks for what you do.

• 2:50:22Speaker 03

  Thank you so much for having me on.

• 2:50:23Joe Rogan?

  My pleasure. I mean, you, your fucking dogged determination to get this stuff out there is very important.

• 2:50:32Speaker 03

  You promised you'll watch the program.

• 2:50:33Joe Rogan?

  I will 100% watch it. Definitely. I will. I will. Thanks, sir.

• 2:50:37Speaker 03

  Awesome, brother. I appreciate it.

• 2:50:38Joe Rogan?

  Appreciate you, James. Thank you very much.

• 2:50:39Speaker 03

  I appreciate you so much, Joe. Thank you.

• 2:50:40Joe Rogan?

  It's on Amazon, the program, and then Moment of Contact is probably available everywhere, right?

• 2:50:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, and The Phenomenon.

• 2:50:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:50:48Speaker 03

  I know what I saw out of the blue.

• 2:50:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 2:50:50Speaker 03

  Fifty Years of Denial. Oh, my God, it goes back.

• 2:50:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you've been, you've been deep in this rabbit hole for a long time, sir. Thanks, James. I appreciate you very much.

• 2:51:00Speaker 03

  Thanks, Joe.

• 2:51:00Joe Rogan?

  All right. Bye, everybody.