Girls!: The Moth Radio Hour

This episode originally aired on October 11th, 2022. This week, an episode in honor of the International Day of the Girl Child, observed October 11. Stories from across continents and across generations -- about the challenges, the adventures, and the joys of girlhood. Hosted and produced by The Moth's Executive Producer, Sarah Austin Jenness. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by The Moth and Jay Allison of Atlantic Public Media. Storytellers: 10-year-old Briony Chappell and her father search for each other after being separated on a ski trip. Dia's mother surprises her in a moment of need. Primah Kwagala recounts the night her father brought home a second wife. Masooma Ranalvi decides to break her silence. Eve Engel hopes to get her first kiss. Juliette Holmes and her mother go shopping in 1940s segregated Georgia. Podcast # 786

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:13Sarah Austin Jenness?

  This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Jenness. We've produced lots of women's episodes over the years, but this hour is all about girlhood. In 2011, the United Nations created the International Day of the Girl Child to recognize girls' rights and to focus the world's attention on the unique challenges girls face. Today, we have stories from Nepal, Uganda, India, London, and the US that dive into the hearts and minds of little girls and some lessons and traditions that some little girls have grown up with. These stories are all told by women about events that happened

• 0:53Sarah Austin Jenness?

  when they were young, some joyous, some harrowing, all memorable and life-changing. We begin this episode with a 10-year-old Londoner on her first-ever trip to the US, perched on a ski slope in Colorado, just where I would not have wanted to be, but that's just me. I liked to swim when I was little, and I'll tell you a little bit more about that later. Bryony Chapel told this story with us at a Grand Slam in London. Here's Bryony.

• 1:29Speaker 01

  When I was growing up, I went skiing every year with my dad. And when I was 10, we went to America, which is obviously very exciting for a 10-year-old. I'd seen it on TV. I knew they had great snacks, extremely important when you're that age. We were about four or five days into our ski holiday, and we were on the final run of the day. And my dad had said, "Okay, I'm gonna ski down to the bottom, and I'll see you there." So I was like, "Okay, that's fine." So I was skiing, and I fell over, which is obviously cripplingly embarrassing when you're 10, because you think you're really cool and great at everything. So I fumbled to get up and trying to put my skis back on, and I keep skiing down. And I get to a fork in the pist, and it, one way down is to

• 2:10Speaker 01

  one village, and one way down is to the other. And I'm like, "I can't remember. I can't remember which way to go." And my dad has definitely told me, and I have definitely forgotten or not been listening. And so I just make a sort of 50/50 decision, ski down to one village, and it's full of people, but none of them are my dad. So I'm like, "Ah, I've made the wrong decision." And, you know, I'm like, "I'm okay. I'm gonna get on the shuttle bus to the other village, and he'll be there." And obviously, I'm there, like, I'm fine, I'm 10, and I'm trying to pick up my skis, and I'm trying to carry them, and that's something I've never done before, because my dad has always carried them, and I've always carried the poles. And I'm trying to get onto the bus, and the guy's like, "Yeah, okay, come on. Yeah, you're alone, but fine." And I go to the

• 2:53Speaker 01

  other village, and I get off, and obviously, my dad is not there either. So I'm like, "Ah, I'm definitely sort of lost now." And I think, you know, I'm a very well-trained child, and I think, "What do I do in this situation?" I go and find a responsible adult. So I go into the village, and I see a supermarket, and it's covered in pictures of animals, and it's called Noah's. And I'm like, "Yeah, that seems legit. There's definitely a responsible adult in there." So I go in, and, you know, like any typical British person in a crisis, I join the queue. And I wait, and I wait till my, I wait till my turn, and I go to

• 3:37Speaker 01

  the checkout, the lady on the checkout, and probably in posh-est, richest accent, more posh than I've ever used in my life, I look at her, and I go, "Excuse me, but I've lost my dad." Burst into tears, and she's like, "Oh!" Obviously, while this is all happening, my dad has had the same experience. He's, I'm not in the village that he's in, so he thought, "Well, she'll just, she'll be in the other village. I'll get on the shuttle bus." And in an amazing comedy of errors, we've crossed like this. And so he's now in the other village that I was originally in, thinking, "Oh my God, I've lost her. And where is she?" So, however, for me, I'm now, my afternoon is really looking up. The

• 4:20Speaker 01

  lady's really taking pity on me. She's like, "Oh my God, you're so small, you're lost, and you're British." She's taken my skis. I'm like, "Thank you so much. I couldn't carry them. I'm on pole duty again." She's given me a Sprite again, the dream. I'm normally only allowed one fizzy drink per day, and this is my second. And I remember that my chalet is called Geronimo, because it's a sign of a fancy name. And she's called the people at the chalet and said, "Like, does this child belong to you? Like, is she staying with you?" And they've been like, "Yeah, she is staying with us. Why are you calling us? It's kind of weird." And they've said, "Well, she's, you know, she's come here, and she's lost, and la la la." And so I've, like, got in the car with this lady

• 5:03Speaker 01

  from the supermarket, who is loving life, because not only is she doing her good deed for the day, she's getting like half an hour off work. And so I'm like, sitting in the front seat of this four-by-four, I've got my skis in the back, I've got my Sprite, I've got my Sunnies. It's sunny. I'm like, "This is America." And I get to the top, you know, get to the chalet, and like, the chalet host, they welcome me in, and they're like, "Oh my God, you're so small, but you're so smart." And obviously, in this time, they've called my dad, who is out of his mind in panic. He's in the mountain ranger's office. The pist has closed for the day. They're like, "Sir, she is not on the mountain. We've

• 5:46Speaker 01

  sent the dogs up. They cannot find her." My dad is like in full panic mode, thinking, "I've lost my child. But what am I gonna do now?" Obviously gets a call from the chalet host, being like, "Sir, we have your child." So he comes back to the chalet. He comes in, you're like, "You're so smart. You're so small. You're amazing." And I'm like, "Yes, I am. Thank you so much." Obviously saying in the chalet, "I'm the talk of the dinner. My God, thank you." And my dad was obviously freaking out. He was like, "I'm gonna have to, you know, go home, tell my wife that I've lost you. You're gonna end up as like one of those children on the side of a milk bottle. This is America." And you know, in hindsight, this story really is only funny, because I'm okay. You know, there's nothing quite like ruining a holiday, like losing the person that you're with.

• 6:31Speaker 01

  And then the next day, we went to the local electronics store, and we bought walkie-talkies. And I'm 10, I'm like, "This is sick." Like, for the rest of the holiday, we communicate like spies. And I think, "Well, maybe I should just get lost more often."

• 6:51Sarah Austin Jenness?

  That was Bryony Chapel. Bryony is still living in London, where she works as the head of social and video at Kiss FM. Bryony still skis and is grateful to have skied so much as a little girl. At this point, when she flies down the slopes, it's all muscle memory. To see photos of Bryony and her dad on holiday from the time of the story, go to themoth.org.

• 7:20Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Our next storyteller is Dia. I can't give her last name for reasons of her safety. She tells us about her relationship with her alma, her mother. We met Dia in a Moth Global Community Program that we taught in collaboration with UN Women Asia, with women who are living in Nepal and neighboring countries. The workshop was during the pandemic, so heads up, this recording is from the virtual world, and the audio has that lackluster Zoom quality. But I promise you, Dia is full of life. Live from Kathmandu, Nepal, here's Dia.

• 7:54Speaker 02

  I remember when I was around five years old, the sun was slowly waking up over the horizon, painting the horizon with bold strokes of orange. And my beautiful alma, in the fields of marigold, picking each bloom slowly and onto the doko, a bamboo basket. Then she plucked a little bright orange bloom and tucked it beneath my ear and called me her Lamrit Thori, her beautiful daughter. And ever since I was a child, I knew that I was a girl. So we moved from the village to the city, and I started to go to school.

• 8:37Speaker 02

  I spent all my time with other girls from my class. I sat and ate lunch with other girls from my class. And I even went to the bathroom, the girls' bathroom, until one day, when I came out of the bathroom, my teacher was standing in front of the door.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  She slapped me across the face and yelled at me. It is wrong for you as a boy to enter the girls' bathroom. I was crying when I unfolded the events to my Amma back at home and asked her, "Am I really a boy? Am I not a girl?" And I waited, but she didn't answer. Instead, in few days, we moved to a different part of the city, to a different school, and she told me I had to act like a boy.

• 9:36Speaker 02

  So in the new school, I started spending all my time with other boys from my class. I sat down and ate lunch with other boys in my class, and I even went to the boys' bathroom.

• 9:49Speaker 02

  But even after doing all these things, I didn't feel like a boy. I felt like a girl pretending to be a boy. And I felt like everyone could see right through the masquerade.

• 10:05Speaker 02

  As I grew older, my face became angular and sharp. I started growing beard, my soldiers broad and my chest flat. But even after all this evolving, my heart, it was of a girl. And my mind was now in a tug of war. Do I go on pretending to be a feminine boy because that's how the world sees me? Or do I tell everyone that I meet, "Hey, stop! I'm not a boy. I'm a girl stuck in a girl's, sorry, girl stuck in a boy's body."

• 10:43Speaker 02

  But there came a point where this was not viable. And that is when I found myself at the doctor's table, begging him to diagnose me of gender dysphoria so I could start my hormone replacement therapy. After a few sessions, he told me to certify that I had gender dysphoria. He had to meet a family member. And that is the moment when I saw my hopes crumble to the floor. The floor is where I was looking when my Amma sat across the table from the doctor as he asked her questions after questions about my mannerism when I was growing up, about my moods when I was growing up, about my education. And then he asked her,

• 11:30Speaker 02

  "Do you know she identifies as a girl?

• 11:34Speaker 02

  You have to act like a boy. You have to act like a boy. You have to act like a boy." Those were the words my mother told me when I was a child, playing in loop in the back of my mind. But then I heard a different word. She said, "I always knew that doctor. She's always been my daughter." And in that moment, in the small room, the claustrophobic walls began expanding into the beautiful field of orange where my Amma was plucking marigold. And I, her daughter, was helping her. Back at her house, in our kitchen table, I asked her,

• 12:19Speaker 02

  "What had changed from then to now?" And she told me, "Nothing had changed." She told me, "I asked you to act like a boy when I was not there because I couldn't protect you from the world. But now you don't need any protecting. Now you can be you."

• 12:42Speaker 02

  And I couldn't help but smile in euphoria as the aroma of the marigold flower filled the kitchen, the same kitchen which now housed a mother and her daughter.

• 13:01Sarah Austin Jenness?

  That was Dia. These days, Dia has been traveling for a research project, collecting biographies on queer youth migration for the UN's Leave No One Behind Strategy, which tries to reduce the inequalities undermining the potential of people all over the world. At the end of her story, Dia put a bright, beautiful marigold behind her ear.

• 13:28Sarah Austin Jenness?

  After our break, two women, one from eastern Uganda and one from Mumbai, share indelible memories from when they were little girls. When The Moth Radio Hour continues.

• 13:50Speaker 03

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 13:57Speaker 04

  The Moth is sponsored by the 75 Million Campaign, a national movement fighting for the 75 million women in America's workforce to have fair wages, paid sick leave, and freedom from discrimination. Recently, the 75 Million Campaign introduced the Working Women's Bill of Rights Resolution to Congress. This is a national women's policy agenda that calls for paid sick leave, modern labor laws that value women's work, increased wages for women, and ending workplace discrimination. The project is co-led by the National Partnership for Women and Families and the National Women's Law Center, which have convened a broad coalition of organizations with proven track records of advancing the rights and economic security of women workers across the country.

• 14:38Speaker 04

  To learn more about the 75 Million Campaign and working women's rights in America, visit the75million.org. That's T-H-E-7-5-M-I-L-L-I-O-N dot O-R-G.

• 14:51Speaker 05

  Buy smart, drive for less, and trade for more. That's Toyota affordability. And it all starts with a great deal from your local Toyota dealer. Make a smart buy on an all-wheel-drive Camry, Corolla Cross, or get a Corolla sedan, packed with the latest features, advanced tech, and head-turning style. Take a test drive in two of Toyota's most popular SUVs, the spacious, family-friendly Grand Highlander and adventure-ready RAV4. And with so many hybrid and plug-in hybrid models available across the lineup, plus efficient all-electrics like the BZ, BZ Woodland, and all-wheel-drive CHR, you can drive your way and skip the pump. And long after you leave the lot, your Toyota keeps delivering with legendary resale value, built on a reputation for quality and reliability. So when it's time for your next Toyota, you could trade in for more.

• 15:36Speaker 05

  From a great deal today to a great value tomorrow, a Toyota is right for you. Shop toyota.com for deals and details, or stop by your local Toyota dealer today. Toyota, let's go places.

• 15:48Sarah Austin Jenness?

  This is The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Jenness. This is an hour all about girlhood. If girls are supported when they're young, they have the potential to change the world. In many cases, girl children are treated differently than boys. But girls remember. And these next two stories are about stark moments that changed the storyteller's lives and the lives of others. We first met Prima Kwagala in a Moth global workshop when she was an Aspen New Voices Fellow. This story was recorded at the very end of the short workshop and told in front of an audience of an enthusiastic eight people. Her story takes place in eastern Uganda. Here's Prima Kwagala.

• 16:35Speaker 06

  Thank you. So my name is Prima Kwagala. Prima means first in Latin, and Kwagala is drawn from our traditions in Uganda. It means love. Directly translated, it's first love. I am the first child of my parents. And I had a happy childhood. My parents loved me. Many times I tell people that I must be my parents' favorite. I used to walk out with my dad for outings. He visited me so many times, even when I moved into boarding school. Even when I go to university, I walked, I'm with my dad. It was weird because everyone wanted to be independent at the university. But I came with my dad.

• 17:21Speaker 06

  Growing up, my dad was really nice to us. He would come back by 5:00 PM to tell us stories, read us about our culture and traditions. You know, even when we went to some of the best schools in Uganda, my dad insisted that we must speak our traditional language. We would not speak English back home. Well, like, some people look at it as a privilege. I remember particularly something I picked as a child. My dad told me that, "We're not dressing men. You need to look at them, straighten their eyes. If you're shaking their hands, make it a firm handshake."

• 18:04Speaker 06

  So I grew up strong and firm and confident at quite an early age. However, my world changed when I was about nine or 10. In the year 1997, on the 24th of December, as is tradition, during Christmas season, we go back to the village in the countryside. And we pack up all our Sunday best clothes, all of our food, and just go out there to celebrate with our grandparents, aunties, and uncles, and everyone else. So it's a really good time because, as a child, you're looking forward to playing and learning new games and sharing what you learned from the school year and your report cards.

• 18:48Speaker 06

  And you know, get all of these applause from everyone. So when we got in the village, towards the evening, we were supposed to go and join the rest of the extended family for dinner and also go through what would be happening on the 25th. At what time we would take breakfast, go to church, and all. And I heard from some of my cousins that my dad was going to introduce a new mother to us. Please understand that polygamy is legal in Uganda. And some of my relatives had several wives, but not my dad.

• 19:24Speaker 06

  And you also need to understand that my dad was relatively wealthy, but my mom had five girls. He needed an heir, someone to take after him and inherit his property. In our culture, a girl cannot inherit property.

• 19:41Speaker 06

  So I was confused. We have a new mother. My parents are an educated lot.

• 19:49Speaker 06

  What does that mean? And I didn't know how my mom would take it. And there's a bit of tension. So when it got to dinner time, my mom asked us to get into her house. She closed the house and gave us strict instructions not to open the door.

• 20:06Speaker 06

  Well, we had not eaten. We had travelled a long way. I mean, we can't speak to our cousins. We won't see their dresses. What's this? Anyway, I was sleeping in my room that night. She turned out all the lights and I could hear her passing in the hallway to the front door. My room was just adjacent to the front door.

• 20:33Speaker 06

  And I was wondering what's going on. But I know I could brush it off and be like, okay, my mom is born again. She is a very radical Christian. So she was, in my opinion, I thought she was praying and casting out demons. Yeah, you know, making sure that the other lady does not make it to our doorstep. Faith in action, strongly doing that.

• 20:57Speaker 06

  So I kept wondering what's going on. But my baby sisters went to sleep. And I just kept hearing her moving in the hallway. Eventually, at about, I think, a little after nine P M. My dad and his army of brothers, he had lots of them because my grandfather had about six wives as well. So there were very many brothers. They came towards our home with their new wife. I think they were escorting him to Usher, in his wife, into the home.

• 21:29Speaker 06

  And when they approached the front door, my dad pounded the door. Open the door! He started screaming. My mom was quiet. You know, in the dead of the night, everyone is quiet. And I was wondering what's going to happen.

• 21:48Speaker 06

  Open the door, he kept screaming. No sound. So his brothers joined in screaming. Joy, open that door! Open that door! She couldn't open. Then he moved to my window, my room, and tapped and called out, Prima? Prima? Can you open the door? So I got up and went to the door. And just as soon as I was about to clutch the doorknob, my mom shouted, Prima, do not open that door. I was mortified. I didn't know what was out there, for it was dark.

• 22:30Speaker 06

  And my mom was tough and a bad cop in the home. If I did anything, I wasn't sure what was going to happen to me. And I didn't know what was happening to my dad out there. So I was just stuck and confused between the door and my parents exchanging, of course.

• 22:54Speaker 06

  Well, my dad heard the shout at me from outside. And alongside his brothers, they burst into the door and broke it open and got in.

• 23:08Speaker 06

  And they had a very bitter exchange. And as just looking, my dad had his brothers with him. And they were, of course, cheering him. And my mom was just crying. And I remember clearly my dad telling my mom that this is my home. I can do what I want. If you do not want to stay, pack your bags and leave. And my mom kept saying, I contributed to this wealth. I contributed to the construction of this house. What becomes of me? And he said, you can take the roof and leave.

• 23:43Speaker 06

  I was in shock. I had never seen my dad angry. I had never seen my dad express so much frustration and anger.

• 23:55Speaker 06

  And the next day, we packed our bags and left. He didn't come after us.

• 24:01Speaker 06

  Today, almost two decades later, I'm a human rights lawyer. And I've specialised in strategic litigation, which involves providing free legal services and challenging systems. I looked at the system of patriarchy and how it envisioned women in our community as less than the men, as having men being entitled and the men not. So I have devoted my work and career towards supporting men to get women to access justice in our community. Thank you.

• 24:49Sarah Austin Jenness?

  That was Prima Kogala. Prima now lives in Kampala, Uganda, and she still works as a lawyer, helping other women in her community. I recently gave her a call to talk more. Last year, your father died, and I'm so sorry to hear that. But that he named you heir. And that seems like a dramatic turnaround from the events in the first scene of your story.

• 25:14Speaker 06

  I was shocked. My mother was shocked because she believed he had abandoned us.

• 25:20Speaker 06

  My dad was such a patriarch. I didn't think he would do anything like that. I knew my dad loved me. But for someone who left us to go find a son, to come back and name his daughter as heir, it was almost impossible to believe because we had never spoken about this. But through this very final act in life, Alist was able to call us back into his family. I feel very proud of him, even in his passing, for being able to do that.

• 25:55Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Well, I know, Prima, that you are a role model for many little girls and that you already have shown many little girls how to grow up in a different way and be like you. Do you think about that?

• 26:08Speaker 06

  Yes, I do. I do think about that. I know so many girls in my community that look up to me. They come to me and say that to me all the time. My life, my story, has been more like my superpower. Yeah, so I do look at myself as a role model and hold myself to account each day to open space and support another woman walking the same journey as I am.

• 26:38Sarah Austin Jenness?

  To see photos of Prima Kogala related to this story, visit themoth.org.

• 26:46Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Masooma Ranalvi tells our next story. She's also from a Moth global workshop, this one focused on women and girls. And a word of caution, this is about the cultural silence around the traditional practice of female genital cutting, also known as cutna in India. Here's Masooma Ranalvi, live at The Moth.

• 27:07Speaker 07

  Good morning, everybody.

• 27:12Speaker 07

  I was born in the city of Mumbai, which was earlier known as Bombay. It is one of the most populous and one of the most vibrant and modern cities of India. I was part of a very, very loving, warm, affectionate family.

• 27:30Speaker 07

  My grandmother used to come from her village to Bombay during the summer vacations. One summer, she'd come home and she said, let's take you for an outing. I was very excited because going out with grandmother, who was an extra work, was good fun. You know, it meant I'd get chocolates and candies. And so my mother dressed me in my best dress. And out I went with grandmother, bouncing along with her.

• 28:00Speaker 07

  We went into this area where a large part of my community stays. It's like an area where we stay. And she took me into this dark, falling apart, decrepit building.

• 28:13Speaker 07

  We entered the building. We climbed up the first floor and she knocked at a door. I'm wondering where we are going. This is going to be a fun outing, but where are we? An old lady opens the door and get into the room. And in our community, we sit down. So we remove the shoes out and there are rugs and carpets on the floor. We go inside the inner room. A curtain is drawn and we sit down on the floor. And then grandmother asks me to lie down. And I don't know what's happening at that point in time. I'm very, very scared. And she kind of gently nudges me, pushes me down on the carpet. I lie down. She's holding me. She's actually pinning me down, holding my shoulders and my hands.

• 28:57Speaker 07

  And the other lady at the other end is holding my legs. And she removes my panty. And it's all happened very quickly. I've started to cry. I'm sobbing. And this woman, she takes some instrument, whether it's a blade or a knife, and she cuts a part of me from down there. I don't know what it is, but it's a sharp, piercing pain. I even do not have it in me to shout or to scream, but I'm sobbing and I'm crying. Everything else is a blur. I only know from that point, I somehow get home. And the first thing I do when I get home is just hug my mom. And I cry and I cry. And I'm angry. Why did my mother send me out with my grandmother?

• 29:41Speaker 07

  And I'm crying and my mother holds me tight. And she says, it's going to be okay. I don't know anything about what has happened to me.

• 29:52Speaker 07

  The memory of that day has been locked in a box. All the trauma, all the whatever I went through, and it's been kept away. I have never, ever revisited that.

• 30:06Speaker 07

  I have never told anybody about that till forty years have passed.

• 30:13Speaker 07

  It's 2015 now. I have a twenty-year-old daughter.

• 30:20Speaker 07

  I have not cut her. I have shielded her. She's studying design in Bangalore, which is another city in India. She's come for vacations. And there is a spate of articles in the newspaper about this practice in our community. She has read about it. She doesn't know much about it, and she doesn't know that her cousins and her peers also have been subject to it, because she hasn't been. Nor have I ever talked to her about it. I want to tell her about this. I have never spoken to anybody about it. I'm extremely awkward about it. One afternoon, I sit her down and start the conversation. She senses where it's going, and she also doesn't want to hear it.

• 31:04Speaker 07

  So she's also feeling very squeamish about it. And I start, you know, when I was seven. And she says, Mom, no, I don't want to hear it. And it's her squeamishness in hearing my story and my awkwardness in telling her the story. It was like it came together. The moment passed, and then she asked me a question. Why do we still do it? It was a general question. It was a question directed to, you know, the community as such. But it pierced me like an arrow. At that moment, I felt ashamed. I felt inadequate, and I felt complicit in my silence.

• 31:49Speaker 07

  I felt that I was perpetuating a dark, dirty secret by my silence. And it was at that moment in my heart, I knew that I had to speak out and I had to break the silence. And that's what I wanted to do. But the biggest block or the biggest hurdle before me was my ignorance. I didn't know anything about this. I did not even know the word clitoris. I really did not. Leave alone know what the clitoris does and anything about it. So my journey into learning about this started.

• 32:32Speaker 07

  And then one day, I sat, I opened my laptop, I opened a page, I started writing. I wrote about all those suppressed, repressed emotions, trauma, feelings, all that anger, pent up frustrations, put it down in a blog. I eventually got that blog published. And that was the beginning of my journey into activism. And today, I'm here to say that I'm very happy that I spoke out. Thank you.

• 33:10Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Masooma Ranalvi lives in Mumbai, India. She's now an instructor with The Moth's Global Workshops and the founder of We Speak Out, the organization which is committed to ending female genital mutilation in India. I recently spoke with Masooma all about this. What happened after you told your story? What kind of changes did you make in your life?

• 33:37Speaker 07

  After I got back to India, I was kind of on a high. I had created this beautiful story, and I had the courage to say it out loud. After that moment, I did not hesitate in telling my story to people. And I started telling my story very proudly, very strongly, and as a result of which, it kind of helped me reach out to so many others, because I started a movement. In a sense, my story started a movement, was called We Speak Out. And there are a lot of women who connected with me at a deeply emotional and a deeply

• 34:20Speaker 07

  personal level, because this was survivors of MGM who themselves had gone through what I had gone through, who were themselves locked up in this whole conspiracy of silence. And my voice kind of gave them this strength to speak. I did not have the courage to speak for 40 years, but now that I am awake, my eyes are open, and I have the power, I have to do something to stop this from happening to other young girls.

• 34:51Sarah Austin Jenness?

  To see photos of Masooma Ranalvi, her sisters, and her daughter, and Masooma at the UN engaging in her advocacy work, visit themoth.org. Next up, one girl lived through her first kiss, another lived through a moment in US history, when The Moth Radio Hour continues.

• 35:28Speaker 03

  The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts.

• 35:34Speaker 07

  My name's PJ Vogt, and our podcast search engine recently got this question from a listener. His dad, a retired pharmacist, had been sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to India, either because he was funding a Bollywood movie with a director he met on the internet, or because he was being scammed. What exactly had his father really gotten himself into? Where was all this cash really going? On our episode, we go all the way to India to investigate what's really going on. Check out the podcast search engine. The episode is called Bollywood Dreams.

• 36:05Sarah Austin Jenness?

  You're listening to The Moth Radio Hour. I'm Sarah Austin Jenness. In this show, we've been hearing women's stories and the things they learn as little girls. The top of the hour, I mentioned that I like to swim. My mother used to tell this one particular story about me over and over. When I was five, she walked me into the YMCA for me to start swimming lessons. And by the time she was back at the car, there I was, next to her, wanting to go home. I said, I'm quitting. Someone splashed me. And my mother said, you are walking right back in there, and you are learning to swim. You're going to get splashed, but you will come out a swimmer. And I did.

• 36:48Sarah Austin Jenness?

  And a year later, Mom and I were walking on the beach in Huntington, Long Island, and we saw a bunch of older girls about to start a swim race to a dock far out in the bay. I walked right up to the organizer, a total stranger, and I asked if I could swim with the big girls in the race. She said, sure, but these girls are much older than you. And I said, all right. And my mother watched as I got right in and swam to the far dock and back. I placed last, but I did it, and I remember feeling so bold and proud of myself. They gave me a Little Swimmer's Trophy, a trophy I still have on my desk 30 years later. My mom is not here to tell her point of view, but I can hear her spirit laughing.

• 37:32Sarah Austin Jenness?

  And yes, you can see pictures of little me and the swimming trophy at themoth.org. Eve Engel tells our next story. She's a graduate of The Moth's education program. Here's Eve Engel, live at The Moth in Beacon High School.

• 37:55Speaker 07

  So here I was, like any good young Jew, on my first teen trip to Israel. And I was so excited, because every second of this trip was planned. The itinerary was beautiful. And I love that, because I'm this compulsive daydreamer, this neurotic over planner, and I think and think about things in my head a lot and how I want them to be. So this really excited me. But the one thing I didn't plan on was meeting a guy on this trip. And it was hilarious, because what happened was, is I met this guy, Danny. And, you know, we would sit next to each other on bus rides and entertain each other

• 38:40Speaker 07

  with really bad "That's What She Said" jokes, you know, really mature. And we did that, and we bonded, but the one thing we didn't do was kiss. Because the thing was, is that it was going to be my first kiss, and I wanted it to be perfect. And I didn't know how it was going to be perfect, but I knew it had to be. And I knew the one way it wasn't going to be was if I kissed him first. He had to be the one to do it. So this brings us to the end of the trip. And the trip started in Israel, and then it ended in this Christian retreat center in New Jersey, of all places.

• 39:23Speaker 07

  And it was my birthday. It was my birthday, and it was the best day. They threw me a surprise party, and it was just so amazing. And I kept thinking to myself, the only thing that could make this day better is if I had my perfect first kiss. So, you know, I keep waiting to see if he'll do it. And then we get to after this bonfire at night, and he says, hey, you want to go for a walk? And I'm like, okay. And so then he brings us to this gazebo. And I see this gazebo, and I know what happens in gazebos.

• 40:06Speaker 07

  Romantic first kisses happen in gazebos. So I was so excited. So I sat down, and, you know, I keep, like, we have this awkward silence, and I keep waiting for him to just kiss me. But he keeps looking at his watch, and I'm like, okay, you know, we're not on the same page, maybe. But I couldn't even be bothered, because I was having such a good day. I was wearing this white dress that made me feel really pretty, and the gazebo had like twinkly lights over it, which was really romantic. And it was that kind of cool summer night where you could just smell it. And I was so happy.

• 40:48Speaker 07

  And then, you know, finally, he looks up from his watch, he kisses me, he pulls back, shows me his watch, and it reads 11:59 and 59 seconds. And he says, happy birthday. And I was like, oh. Because I was like, I see your romantic gesture. Like, I see what you did there.

• 41:26Speaker 07

  But the thing was, is that this kiss was so underwhelming. I didn't know what to do about it. I didn't know what I did wrong. And I was kind of freaking out. I was having this out-of-body experience. And it was midnight, so we had to go back to our cabin. So he dropped me off at my cabin, and he kisses me goodnight. And I just walk up the stairs, and I'm, you know, crying, because it was my first kiss, and something didn't go right. It didn't feel perfect. And so I go to my counselor's room, and I'm crying, and I just tell her everything. And I say, "It was my first kiss, and something

• 42:07Speaker 07

  was wrong, and I don't know what I did wrong." And she goes, "Honey, first kisses are supposed to be awkward. First everythings are supposed to be awkward." And, well, that just blew my mind, that I could think and think and plan. And things weren't going to come out the way that they were in my head. And that was such a liberating feeling. And the great thing was, that the next time that I kissed someone, it was so unplanned. It was on a Monday night, and I had to rush home to do a math project. And I was on a subway platform,

• 42:50Speaker 07

  and I kissed him first. And I swear it lasted like this long, but it was perfect. Thank you.

• 42:58Sarah Austin Jenness?

  Eve Engel is a preschool teacher, living in Brooklyn. And the very counselor who gave her the advice in her story is now a colleague of Eve's. Juliet Holmes tells our final story in this hour, about a memorable lesson she learned when she was six, growing up in Savannah. She told this at a grand slam in New York City, where WNYC is a media partner of The Moth. Here's Juliet Holmes.

• 43:40Speaker 06

  I grew up in Savannah, Georgia, in the deep, deep south. Savannah was like all segregated apartheid cities, with the doors to restaurants, movie theaters, bathrooms, water fountains, had Jim Crow signs, barring colored people. In Savannah, this particular year, it was a very, very hot spring. And my mama told us on a Saturday morning, that we were going

• 44:25Speaker 06

  to go shopping at Sears Row Buck. We were so excited, my sister and me. We went, we got dressed, and my mother would always say to us, "Girls, you know how to act." She never used the word "behave." "Yes, mama, we know how to act. Yes, mama, we know how to act. And the next thing I want you to do is to drink a glass of water, go to the

• 45:02Speaker 06

  bathroom, flush the toilet, and wash your hands." My sister, who was older, she was so annoyed, but of course, she didn't let my mama hear it. "Why is it that we always have to drink a glass of water, go to the bathroom, flush the toilet, and wash our hands?" By me being younger and wanting to be like my sister, I would say, "Mm-hmm, mm-hmm." But we didn't let mama hear us, okay? So mama got her pocketbook, we were all dressed. She locked the door, put that pocketbook under her arm, and off we went

• 45:46Speaker 06

  to get on the bus. We walked to the bus stop. My mama paid the fare. We got on, and we went straight to the back of the bus, the assigned seats. My sister sat with my mama. I wanted to sit by myself, so I could look out the window. Oh, I was just so happy looking out of the window at all of the sights. The bus stopped later, and one of my classmates got on, and she sat right next to me. What's she want to sit next to me for? I want to

• 46:25Speaker 06

  look out the window. I don't want to talk to her. So she was talking, and I was looking, "Mm-hmm, mm-hmm." "Well, Juliet, I'll see you in school Monday." "Okay, bye." I was like that when I was a little girl. Yeah, right. Okay. So the bus went on, and my mother rang the bell. We got off the bus, and walked across the street to Sears Row Buck. Sears

• 47:03Speaker 06

  was a big store, a block long, with three stories. Big store. Everybody was excited about Sears Row Buck. My mama went in, we went into the store, we walked straight to the back of the store, got on the elevator. Now, mind you, the elevators weren't segregated, first come, first served. My mama mashed the button, got off in the women's department, and she started to shop, looking, pushing, looking, looking. And my sister, the drama

• 47:44Speaker 06

  queen, "What's the matter?" "I am so thirsty." "I am too. I'm thirsty too." "Mama, mama, yes, I'm thirsty." And my mama gave her a look that we know the look, "Mm-hmm." And she kept right on, looking, looking. So I said, "Mama, mama, there's a sign that says

• 48:24Speaker 06

  colored water. Colored water. Oh, mama, I want some of that colored water. Because I know, must be rainbows, red and blue and green. Oh, mama." And my mama looked at us, and she said, she didn't say anything. She walked over to the fountains. One was white, white water, colored water. And she stood, and she said, "Betty Ann, drink from the white fountain." "Oh, mama, it's nice and cool. Tastes good." "Now, drink from the

• 49:05Speaker 06

  colored fountain." "Oh, mama, it's nice and cool. Now, I'm looking for all these colors to come out, but no colors. Juliet, you drank from the white fountain." "Oh, mama, it's nice and cool." "Now, drink from the colored fountain." "Mama, but it tastes the same." She said, "Yes, it tastes the same, because it comes out the same pipes." "Well, mama, why do they have those signs?" "That's the law." "Well, who made the law?" She said, "That is how it is." Now, I don't think my mama bought anything. We walked across

• 49:47Speaker 06

  the street, got on the bus, and she paid the fare, and we sat on the very last seat on the bus. And she sat, and she hugged both of her two little colored girls. And as I look back on that day, in Sears Row Buck, I wonder, my mama put her life on the line for her two little colored girls, because she could have been arrested, put in jail,

• 50:23Speaker 06

  beaten. But that is how it was, in Savannah, Georgia, in 1947. Thank you, ladies and gentlemen.

• 50:37Sarah Austin Jenness?

  That was Juliet Holmes. Juliet is in her 80s now, and she's lived in New York for many years. But she says her heart will never leave the low country of Savannah, where she was born and raised. When I called to tell her this story was going to air, she cried. She said, "My mother took her life into her hands to teach us the truth. She was ahead of her time. I didn't realize we lived in the segregated world, because my mom always told me I could be anything I wanted." Juliet has two granddaughters,

• 51:19Sarah Austin Jenness?

  one named Savannah, and she says, "I teach them lessons, just like my mother taught me." To see a photo of Juliet, her sister Betty Ann, and their mother, all shopping in Savannah in the 1940s, go to themoth.org. That's it for this episode of The Moth Radio Hour. We hope you'll join us next time.

• 51:39Speaker 03

  This episode of The Moth Radio Hour was produced by me, Jay Allison, Catherine Burns, and Sarah Austin Jenness, who also hosted and directed the stories in the show, along with Meg Bowles and Jennifer Hickson. Co-producer is Vicky Merritt, associate producer Emily Couch. Additional Moth Global Community Program coaching by Candy Entuiga and Larry Rosen. The rest of The Moth's leadership team includes Sarah Haberman, Kate Tellers, Jennifer Birmingham, Marina Kluch, Suzanne Rust, Brandon Grant, Inga Glodowski, Sarah

• 52:23Speaker 03

  Jane Johnson, and Aldi Kaza. The Moth would like to thank the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation and UN Women for their support of the Moth Global Community Program. Most Stories Are True is remembered and affirmed by the storytellers. Our theme music is by The Drift. Other music in this hour is from Epidemic Sound and Blue Dot Sessions. Podcast music, production support from Davey Sumner. We receive funding from the National Endowment for the Arts. The Moth Radio Hour is produced by Atlantic Public Media in Woods Hole, Massachusetts. Special thanks to our friends at Odyssey, including executive producer Leah Reese Dennis. For more about our podcast, for information on pitching us your own story, and everything

• 53:07Speaker 03

  else, go to our website, themoth.org.