#1305 Peter Diamandis on Bitcoin, XPRIZE, Longevity, Artificial Intelligence

Peter Diamandis is the Founder & Executive Chairman of the XPRIZE Foundation, which leads the world in designing and operating large-scale incentive competitions. He is also the Executive Founder of Singularity University, a graduate-level Silicon Valley institution that counsels the world’s leaders on exponentially growing technologies. In this conversation, we talk about XPRIZE, longevity, importance of health span & life span, artificial intelligence, bitcoin, and more. ======================= This episode is brought to you by Frec — Just as easy as investing in an ETF, Frec Direct Indexing can help you earn more by unlocking tax savings, no matter the market. Done for you, automatically. Check them out at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://frec.com/⁠ ======================= Base is making it their mission to bring a billion people onchain. But what exactly is Base? It's an Ethereum L2 offering a seamless experience for both builders and users. With near-zero gas fees and rapid transaction speeds, Base is shaping the future of the onchain world. Base is a canvas for everyone, with hundreds of apps in the Base ecosystem, whether you're an emerging creator, a seasoned developer, or someone exploring the onchain space for the first time, Base is designed to bring your ideas to life. So, if you're looking for a platform where the future of onchain is being built daily, Base is your destination. Join in and make onchain the next online. Learn more at ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠base.org⁠ and follow along on Twitter at @BuildOnBase to see cool things to do onchain, everyday. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/ ======================= View 10k+ open startup jobs: https://dreamstartupjob.com/ Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Anthony Pompliano?

  What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Today's episode is with Peter Diamandis. He is the founder and executive chairman of the XPRIZE Foundation, where they lead the world in designing and operating large-scale incentive competitions. He's also the executive founder of Singularity University, a graduate-level Silicon Valley institution

• 0:46Anthony Pompliano?

  that counseled the world's leaders on exponentially growing technologies. Peter has founded a ton of different companies. He is one of the best thinkers when it comes to the future of technology, and he has written a number of books. His latest one is on longevity, and we talk a lot about it today. In this conversation, we talk about XPRIZE and his brand-new $101 million XPRIZE around longevity, why health span and lifespan are both really, really important, and then we get into the dirty details of what he does from a longevity standpoint, what his thoughts are currently around artificial intelligence, Bitcoin, the enhanced games, and much, much more. I love talking to Peter because it gives me a peek into the future and what is possible as long as humans remain ambitious

• 1:28Anthony Pompliano?

  and they continue to innovate and build towards a better world. Here is my conversation with Peter Diamandis.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

• 2:00Anthony Pompliano?

  This episode is brought to you by Freec. Historically, the wealthy had a hidden secret in investing. They would spend a lot of money and use very big teams to conduct tax loss harvesting. Tax loss harvesting is the timely selling of securities at a loss to offset the amount of capital gains tax owed from selling the profitable assets later. But now, Freec is bringing this incredible advantage to any investor. They'll literally lower your tax bill, regardless of how much money you have. They use state-of-the-art technology through a product called direct indexing to allow investors to invest in the S and P 500 while getting all the benefits of tax loss harvesting without the big bill. If you want to learn more, go check them out at freec.com. That's F R E C dot com. I'm a big fan of the product and I even became an investor in the business.

• 2:45Anthony Pompliano?

  Freec.com. Go check them out today. Today's episode is brought to you by Base. Base is making it their mission to bring a billion people on chain. What exactly is Base? It's a layer-two offering, a seamless experience for both builders and users. With near-zero gas fees and rapid transaction speeds, Base is shaping the future of the on-chain world. Base is a canvas for everyone, with hundreds of apps in the ecosystem, whether you're an emerging creator, a seasoned developer, or someone exploring the on-chain space for the first time. Base is designed to bring your ideas to life. So if you're looking for a platform where the future of on-chain is being built daily, Base is your destination. Join in and make on-chain the next online.

• 3:27Anthony Pompliano?

  Learn more at base.org or follow along on Twitter at BuildOnBase. Again, that's at BuildOnBase to see cool things to do on-chain every single day. All right, guys. Bang, bang, I've got Peter here. Peter, you are the founder of X Prize, is probably one of the coolest projects, in my opinion. You guys put a big, big dollar amount out there and you say, anyone in the world, regardless of who you are, where you come from, what your background is, if you can solve this problem, you get this prize. And it used to be, you know, a million dollars, $10 million. Now you're all seeing $100 million X prizes. Why is it so important to have a prize that people are really driving towards to continue to drive innovation and ambition?

• 4:08Speaker 02

  Thanks, buddy. It's good to see you. You know, there's a saying I love that without a target, you'll miss it every time. We are, as a species, extraordinarily good in competition, right? We do our best work when we're competing in the Olympics or in business. Why not do that as well in solving the world's biggest problems? And so when we run these competitions, we put a target. We say, like you said, I don't care where you went to school, what you've ever done. If you solve this problem, and this is what you have to do.

• 4:46Speaker 02

  And it aims everybody in the same direction and gives them a target to shoot for. And a lot of times, people are looking for an excuse. They're looking for a reason to jump in. And these X prizes incentivize people. Now, here's what's different today. It used to be that 100 years ago, the only people who could make a difference on a big problem were the kings and the queens, the industrialists, the government. But now, you know, a small team using AI,

• 5:25Speaker 02

  using, you know, the technologies that are at our fingertips, can do something miraculous. And so we're looking at crowdsourced solutions. And so that's what we're doing. We're saying, what are the world's biggest problems? How do we target people to solve them? And we create a level playing field where a small, brilliant, you know, team can compete against a big one. There's one other important point I should make here, that it's a saying I love, which is the day before something is a breakthrough, it's a crazy idea. Right? If it weren't a breakthrough, if it weren't a crazy idea, it would be an expected improvement. But if it truly is a crazy idea, and where inside organizations

• 6:10Speaker 02

  do you try crazy ideas? Large companies are fearful of failure. Governments don't want congressional investigations. And so it becomes the young team that is willing to try a crazy idea and fail over and over and over again.

• 6:26Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, the latest X Prize is around longevity or increasing health span. And I think maybe a great way to think about this is like, people always want to be healthy, for the most part. But there's two ways that you can think about this. You can think about it as, I want to live to 150, and so literally extending life. Or you could think about it as improving the quality of the years that you have. And I think the holy grail is to do both, to have more years and also have a higher quality of the years. How are you thinking about longevity today? And why do we need the X Prize to really drive forward some of these breakthroughs in longevity?

• 7:01Speaker 02

  Great question. So, you know, lifespan is how long your heart's taking. Health span is how long do you feel vibrant, energetic, alive? You know, it's interesting, I was about five, six years ago, was on the stage of the Vatican at a medical conference, and in the room was, you know, cardinals and priests and physicians and scientists, you know, and it was, it was a crazy audience. And I was speaking about the morality of immortality. And I asked an innocent question to the room, 500 people in the room there, right, all at the invitation of the Pope. And I said, how many of you want to live

• 7:42Speaker 02

  to 120 years old? And I expected everyone's hands to go up, and like, 20% of the room raised their hands. And I'm like, what in the, what's up? And the problem is that we have a mental image of 120 as being slobbering in a wheelchair, disabled.

• 8:00Speaker 02

  And that historically is true. And so no one wants that. Um, and so we need to change that. So lifespan and health span is living to 120 in a vibrant way that you're enjoying life. You're hanging out with your great, great grandchildren and you're cognitively physically there. So, um, this X Prize, you know, we've done well in lifespan. We doubled over the last century from 40 to 80 years old roughly. But that's lifespan. Health span still lags by 10 years. So, um,

• 8:36Speaker 02

  this prize we've launched, um, to get into the specifics, it's a, it's a hundred and one million dollar purse. And, um, it's 101 million because the friend of mine, Chip Wilson, the founder of Lululemon, who put up the first roughly $30 million, uh, wanted it to be bigger than the prize we had with Elon Musk, which was $100 million for carbon removal. And so, um, uh, funny enough, we ended up, uh, making it 101. Then he added, then Chip add another $10 million of bonus money for his particular disease, which is a muscular dystrophy called FSHD. That's 111 million of prize money.

• 9:20Speaker 02

  And to win this prize, uh, a team needs to demonstrate that they have a therapy that with given for up to a year could reverse your cognitive, your, uh, muscular and immune age by 20 years. Right? So that, uh, and this is going to be done in patients and met in subjects age 65 and older. So we need to show that you have the, uh, you know, as we grow older, we start to lose function across everything. Our cognitive function, our muscular, our strength and ability to build muscle, our ability to mount an immune defense against a challenge of some type.

• 10:06Speaker 02

  What if you could turn back the clock 10 years or 20 years on those three things? That's what this challenge is about. We announced it in actually Saudi Arabia. It's funded by a foundation called Evolution, which is out of Riyadh in the US and with Chip Wilson and a number of benefactors, including myself. We have over 200 teams entered so far. I expect we'll get close to 1,000. And this competition will run through 2030. And I hope it will source amazing new approaches

• 10:43Speaker 02

  to maintain our and maintain our health a decade or two longer is the goal.

• 10:50Anthony Pompliano?

  When we see people talking about longevity today, I think there are the David Sinclair's, "Hey, we're in a lab and we're doing what most people consider kind of academic research to try to find maybe things we can take or food we should eat or various protocols that we should follow." Then you can go and you can look at someone like a Brian Johnson, who is doing everything from getting peptide injections all the way to literally, I think he recently announced he got Botox injected into his male genitalia and trying to figure out how does that have an impact. There's obviously the use of young people's blood that whether it's venture capitalists to many others over the years have been rumored to do. And so there's all these kind of, again, crazy ideas or wacky ideas. When you evaluate the space today,

• 11:35Anthony Pompliano?

  like, what are the things that are working? Right? Like, when you say, "Hey, I'm talking to a friend. They say I want to live a longer life." Are there things that maybe are like free? And then there's things that the average person could afford that they could do?

• 11:47Speaker 02

  Yeah, for sure. Let me frame it as following. There's an idea called longevity escape velocity. And that concept put forward by Aubrey de Grey and Ray Kurzweil, I love it because when people say, "How long do you want to live, Peter?" I used to give some ridiculous multi-hundred-year answer. Ridiculous only because if you hit longevity escape velocity, you can live as long as you desire. So what does that mean? Today, for every year that you're alive, science is extending your life for a quarter to a third of a year, right? There are breakthroughs every year that are making you healthier and living longer.

• 12:29Speaker 02

  There is a moment in time where that for every year that you're alive, science is extending your life for more than a year. Right? And that concept is called longevity escape philosophy and say, you know, it's a departure. And so the question is, when will we reach this idea of longevity escape philosophy? And I interviewed a number of individuals, Ray Kurzweil, George Church, David Sinclair. And the belief is that it is in the neighborhood of 15 years out, maybe 20 years out at most, as a result of AI and quantum technologies and maybe sooner.

• 13:11Speaker 02

  And so what you really want to do is how do you maintain your health for the next 10 years, the next 20 years? You don't want to be the last person to arrive, you know, the day before longevity escape philosophy. So what do you do now? And I ended up writing this book, Longevity, A Practical Playbook, outlining everything I do and why. And it falls into a number of categories. The first is the basics that are free, right? And it is first and foremost, exercise. I hate to say it, people don't like to do it. I do,

• 13:54Speaker 02

  I work out at least with weights four days a week and I'm on a techno gym bike for three or four days a week, getting my zone two training, but it's adding muscle mass. I added 10 pounds of muscle last year aggressively to get there because there's a direct correlation between muscle and longevity. And there are things you can do to maintain and grow your muscle mass. It gets harder as you get older and you have to work harder for it, but it is definitely worth it. Exercising just once or twice a week reduces your chance of all-cause mortality by 50%, reduces the chance of cancer by threefold. It's a big deal. If exercise could be bottled in a pill, it would be a trillion dollar medical miracle.

• 14:39Speaker 02

  Right? So people know it, just got to do it. And frankly, any amount of exercise is better than being a couch potato and sitting down. The second thing is diet. And there's no one diet for everybody, but there are a few things that are true. And hate to say it, but sugar is a poison. The body never evolved to eat as much sugar as we do. It's a inflammatory factor. Cardiovascular and neuroinflammatory. It is just, it's bad. And so it's addictive. And so minimizing high glycemic index foods and, and sugar,

• 15:23Speaker 02

  and breaking that sugar addiction is one of the most important things. Maximizing vegetables, colored vegetables. I sleep, eight hours of sleep, fundamental. The body could have evolved away. It didn't. Eight hours, you know, sleep is part. I used to, like in medical school, I would be so proud when I do like, I can do this in four and a half or five hours of sleep. Right? Mindset is incredibly important. There's a great study I quote in the book of 69,744 women and 1,429 guys. And it was done by the National Academy of Sciences, or published in National Academy of Science Proceedings.

• 16:05Speaker 02

  And optimists lived 15% longer than pessimists. Amazing. And then the final thing for me, you know, I talk about the meds and supplements and I'm on rapamycin and I take berberine instead of metformin. And I don't want to go into that because everybody's different. But I outline everything I do and I say, see your doctor. But the last thing that I think is so important and is not dying from something stupid. You know, if I were to ask you, Pom, you know, do you know what's going on inside your body right now? Are you sure that there's nothing going on inside your body to worry about? How do you answer it?

• 16:48Anthony Pompliano?

  No, of course not. You want to think, you want to think that you do, but you 100% don't. And I'll even give you a step further. I have friends who say, hey, I go see a doctor, you know, every six months and I try to stay on top of what the recommended thing is. You know, my wife and I had our second child and we went to go see the doctor. The day before the baby was born and she said, oh, you guys have at least two more weeks before the baby's going to be born. And 12, 15 hours later, she shows up to the hospital and realizes that we're there. And she's like, I wasn't expecting to see you for two weeks. We're like, you know, hey, you're the doctor, right? Aren't you supposed to know? You know, two weeks to, you know, 12 hours later, that's a pretty big difference. And part of it is even if you have

• 17:31Anthony Pompliano?

  the medical professional, it's really hard, right? That the human body is so unique and things can get missed or misinterpreted as well.

• 17:38Speaker 02

  So yeah, 100%. So we know more about what's going on inside our car or refrigerator than we do our body. And that's the problem. Let me give you some of the facts. So first of all, you have to realize that the body is incredibly good at hiding disease. The body compensates, which is amazing, right? So you don't feel cancer at stage one or stage two, only when it reaches stage three or stage four, do you feel something? At which point, sometimes, you know, it's too late. You don't feel an aneurysm that's developing. 70% of all heart attacks have no precedent, no shortness of breath, no pain,

• 18:23Speaker 02

  no anything. And half of the heart attacks end up in death. So it's like, boom. We've all had friends, I had a fraternity brother of mine, who was going to go down a fountain life, a month, he had been in a plane, a month out, he died in the sleep. Another friend of mine went through Fountain Life in our Orlando facility, because we were going to do business together. I said, go through it, experience it, you know? And we found two brain aneurysms. He was in surgery a week later and then back at work a week after that. So in our first 5,000 members who go through, what Fountain Life is, it's a full body upload. It's everything knowable

• 19:05Speaker 02

  about your body that's knowable. It's, you know, full body MRI, brain, brain vasculature, AI-enabled coronary CT looking for soft plaque, DEXA scan, full genome, metabolome, microbiome, 120 blood biomarkers, everything. And out of the first 5,000 members, 2%, 2 out of 100 people have a cancer they don't know about.

• 19:33Speaker 02

  Two and a half percent have an aneurysm they don't know about. Fourteen point four percent have a significant life-saving finding metabolic disease, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease, cancer, Alzheimer's, aneurysms. And so, you know, listen, the body was never evolved to live past age thirty. And it's downhill from there. And so stuff starts going on, you just don't know about it. And so people say, I don't want to know. I say bullshit. Of course you want to know. Well, you're going to find out. You want to find out about now or when it's too late? So I write about that in this book on the chapter of I call Don't Die From Something Stupid. And I think not looking is is kind of silly.

• 20:18Speaker 02

  So, you know, sleep, diet, exercise, understand what's going inside your body. And then there's a whole slew of new therapeutics coming out. And this health span X Prize is going to drive a lot of those breakthroughs as well.

• 20:32Anthony Pompliano?

  What about, I'm going to call it consumer wearables as kind of a category. You know, if I think of my own personal life, the Apple Watch, it's not the most stylish watch. Actually, some people would say, hey, why are you wearing that stupid watch? But I noticed that it tells me how many steps I take. Or, you know, did I close my rings in terms of exercise? And for whatever reason, it makes me want to make sure that I close the rings. And so it has this like great feedback loop. I know people who wear the Oura ring where they sleep on an eight-sleep mattress. Or, you know, name your device. And it feels like maybe the tech sector and where it intersects with health is driving better behaviors to some degree. And then on the other hand, you know, you also have people who just sit at their desk all day and doom scroll on their favorite social media app.

• 21:16Anthony Pompliano?

  And maybe that's actually contributing to negative side effects. So how do you kind of think about tech, you know, and its evolution here?

• 21:22Speaker 02

  Yeah, I have a, an appendix at the back of this book that lists all the stuff available and the stuff that I use. And by the way, you can get a free digest. It's not the full book. It's a summary of thirty-page summary of all the book. And includes that list, if someone goes to diamandus.com/longevity, you can get it. I just want to get this information out there.

• 21:50Speaker 02

  I wear, I'm always wearing a continuous glucose monitor, right? Either by levels or by free Libre and monitoring my glucose levels. Not because I don't, I just wanna be, it keeps me cognizant of what I'm eating. Right? I don't wanna eat something and watch it spike. I wear my Oura ring, not because it puts me to sleep, but because it reminds me in the morning

• 22:19Speaker 02

  to that I'm gonna be looking to get a sleep score above 90. Right? I use my, I have an eight sleep mattress as well. I've got my, my, actually it's charging my Apple Watch.

• 22:31Speaker 02

  My venture fund, Bold Capital, about two thirds of our investments are in biotech and there's a whole slew of new wearables. So one of the places that Fountain Life is going, we have these centers, we're building out centers around the world. But the ultimate goal is Fountain at Home, where your wearables, and as a Fountain member, you get a number of wearables integrated into our digital app that your physician is watching with you, for you. Ultimately, all of these wearables are also in your room, in your mattress of your bed and your chair, listening to your typing, your voice,

• 23:15Speaker 02

  what your cough is like, and all of this data is going to your AI, which is your ultimate diagnostician. And it's, you know, catching things even earlier. So health monitoring will be 24/7 eventually. If you want it to be, you can turn it on or turn it off.

• 23:35Anthony Pompliano?

  When you see that health monitoring.

• 23:41Anthony Pompliano?

  How much of it is personalized foods, right? And these things that, you know, lab grown meats? And we're starting to see innovation where I think people are saying, okay, today it looks just like, can we change the cost structure? Maybe there's a animal and humanity, you know, type of approach to this. But is it really that far off from us to say, okay, I'm monitoring my glucose and these other markers on a continuous basis. I'm not getting enough of a certain, you know, vitamin, mineral, protein, whatever. And so therefore I'm going to start to cater my diet, but not just order from a certain place or cook a certain food. I'm actually going to have the food specially made in a personalized way to my exact needs? Or is that a little bit too sci fi?

• 24:21Speaker 02

  No, no, not at all.

• 24:24Speaker 02

  I think that is definitively coming. We've talked about that specifically at Fountain Life as a an adjacency with our, our residential partners. But so for example, I don't eat gluten. I don't eat dairy.

• 24:43Speaker 02

  I don't eat, I don't eat gluten because that's what my lab results tell me. Right? And if you're being monitored 24/7 by what's going on, your vitamin levels, your hormone levels, your, all of that, it is possible for your AI to know exactly what foods you should or should not eat. And to be transmitting that to the, to the right agents that are producing your foods. So I do think in the final result, and I don't think it's, you know, more than two to five years max out. But your, your health biomarkers will determine the food you end up eating

• 25:29Speaker 02

  in a, in an automagical way. If you want to turn that function on.

• 25:37Anthony Pompliano?

  I think of the furthest out of all of this. Recently, there was an announcement around the enhanced games, which is the Olympics, but you basically can take whatever steroids, do whatever you want.

• 25:49Speaker 02

  I love the idea, by the way, I do love it. Know the team who's proposed it, yes.

• 25:54Anthony Pompliano?

  And is that where kind of sports, culture, society in general? Like, should we expect to have a leaner, fitter, you know, society of people because the science gets infused in a way? Or things like maybe Ozempic, where, yeah, it can help you lose weight, but there's concerns around, you know, muscle mass or bone density and kind of some of the downsides. Like, how do you think about just like the augmentation of humans, both for culture and society, but also for sport like in the enhanced games?

• 26:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, it used to be that where we were born, what gender we're born into, what religion we're born into, all of that determined the rest of our life forever. Your caste system and so forth. Today, that is no longer the case. You can reinvent yourself. I think that the most interesting reinvention is going to be coming from CRISPR and gene therapies. Right? So, for example, to take it slightly different direction, there are 130 trials going on right now for CRISPR treatments.

• 27:10Speaker 02

  So, again, we learned how to sequence the human genome. The price went from $3 billion to $100 million. It's down to $200 bucks now for your genome, the 3 billion letters from your mom and your dad. And your genome, your software.

• 27:27Speaker 02

  You know, determines a lot, not everything. You know, it turns out that your genome only is responsible for at maximum 20% of your longevity. Lifestyle changes are are the vast majority. But if you have a genetic disease, genetic blindness, hearing loss, sickle cell anemia, beta thalassemia, a whole slew of diseases because a particular nucleotide in your 3.2 billion letters is off. You can now use CRISPR, right? Two amazing women will win the Nobel Prize in Chemistry for CRISPR in 2020. The ability to go in and and edit your genome in your body.

• 28:12Speaker 02

  And that's biblical, right? So you can now go and edit yourself. There are other gene hacks which will allow you to eventually build more muscle or be able to, you know, change the color of your skin or your hair. Or, I mean, there's all kinds of things that are coming in. And and designer, you know, designer babies may be a thing in the future. So there are lots of different directions that we're going to go. And society, the problem is that society is ill prepared to deal with these things at the speed at which they're developing. Yeah, the enhanced games is is cool.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  And I, sure, I'd love to see, you know, what what the long jump looks like for someone who's been, you know, hacked in a way. I mean, it's more out of morbid curiosity than anything else. I I think the Olympics will always be the gold standard. But I think, just like we went from, you know, wrestling to, what's it called when you're when you're in a cage, like cage fights where you can do anything you want? Right? You know, it's like people like the extreme. But it's also nice to know what, you know, what the unaltered natural human can do. But there's a place for both.

• 29:34Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, you said the society is ill prepared. Why are they ill prepared? Or what could we do to become more rapidly prepared?

• 29:43Speaker 02

  Human beings don't like change. Fundamentally, we like waking up in the morning and knowing that the world is the same world we went to sleep in. We have institutions, governments, religious institutions and such which are stabilizing forces.

• 30:02Speaker 02

  Um, I learned long ago that people to a large degree fear the future because they don't understand it. And the faster things are moving,

• 30:14Speaker 02

  the more concerned they get because they are, they understand the game they're playing.

• 30:22Speaker 02

  And, you know, I just gave a talk to a middle school out here uh, in, in LA to a hundred and fifty teachers about where things are going. And rather than being excited, I think I scared the shit out of them.

• 30:40Speaker 02

  Which was concerning to me, but nonetheless, it is what it is. Uh, and the only constant is change and the speed of change is increasing, especially with what we're seeing in, in generative AI these days and humanoid robots that are coming.

• 30:56Speaker 02

  And so because the change is so vast,

• 31:02Speaker 02

  and we deal with, with the reaction through culture, through government laws, through institutions that don't change, don't like to change. It's just gonna be, there is gonna be a departure diversion where we linear humans are, are constantly causing, are being disrupted or causing disruption on institutions. So we're seeing it, it's just gonna continue to accelerate.

• 31:30Anthony Pompliano?

  When we see um,

• 31:33Anthony Pompliano?

  the augmentation of society and of the human, I recently tweeted and I said that there's an increasing correlation between fake lips, fake news and fake money, right? And it seems like society, uh, fake is a negative connotation, but you know, there are some benefits to some of these things. Um, and obviously huge detrimental uh, impact to others. How do you think about sifting through some of these evolutions as good or bad? You know, fake lips is kind of like, well, maybe it makes someone happy. Also, maybe it screws up their body, maybe doesn't, neither one. Like, how do you kind of use as a framework to evaluate these developments?

• 32:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, we have to remember, you know, listen, I'm sixty two years old. Uh, I feel like I'm in my best shape ever and I'm working hard on that. It's important to me. I prioritize it second only to my kids. Um, but I'm, I've gotten here and I'm in the best shape I'm in because of all the things I do in my own bio hacks. Um, uh, is it natural? No, natural is dead by thirty. I mean, just to remember, right? A hundred thousand years ago, you would have a baby at age twelve when you went into puberty. You'd be pregnant by thirteen.

• 32:58Speaker 02

  By the time you were twenty six, twenty seven, twenty eight, you were a grandparent. And before we had McDonald's and Whole Foods and food was abundant. Uh, your purpose was to perpetuate the species pass on the genes. And you didn't want to compete against your grandchildren for food. And society would have you die. So the body was never built to live past age thirty. Just to be hyper clear for anybody here over thirty, you're on borrowed time, buddy. So, uh, it's, but we enhance that. We solve these things. We, we create antibiotics. We pasteurize milk. We get better sanitation.

• 33:40Speaker 02

  We, we learn how to catch disease early. We learn which foods do and do not interest. Anyway, um, the point being, we're always modifying the game. Um, you know, fake is a term we apply like, uh, you know, uh, was like, I was on CNBC talking about the Taylor Swift deep fakes. Um, and, you know, and Trump using, you know, claiming deep fakes and all of that. And yeah, those are issues. Uh, when they're negative, we call them deep fakes. When they're positive things, we call them avatars. We give them different names, right?

• 34:23Speaker 02

  And digital avatars are extremely valuable on a multitude of, of ways for education, for business, for sales, for marketing, for bringing back loved ones eventually. So, um,

• 34:37Speaker 02

  It's, I don't know that it's anything different than it's ever been. It's just a lot more moving a lot faster and our institutions are evolving at the speed of humans, not at the speed of AI.

• 34:52Anthony Pompliano?

  When you see other technologies that are pushing us forward through innovation,

• 34:59Anthony Pompliano?

  with Bitcoin, with artificial intelligence, these are things that you and I have talked about before. Where do you see those now? Is this something where everything gets pushed forward together, kind of in a techno-optimist view of the world and it's, you know, they all benefit if AI gets pushed forward, then these other technologies benefit? Or are they somewhat siloed and progress on Bitcoin doesn't necessarily indicate progress on longevity or AI or something like that?

• 35:25Speaker 02

  I think they're all moving in some unison. For example, Bitcoin is predicated on blockchain and blockchain may be the most important technology to prevent deep fakes on the negative side, right? Having some mechanism of authentication in the metadata of an image or a video that's on the blockchain that allows you to verify it. And of course, AI enables you to do the research and do that better and computational speed and the ability for someone in the middle of India using YouTube to educate themselves and being able to communicate with people in Thailand

• 36:10Speaker 02

  and in California for free on WhatsApp. I mean, all these things are just making the world faster and faster. The question ultimately is, do you believe that human nature is on the whole good or bad? If you believe on the whole, human nature is bad and that all of these technologies as they become more and more prevalent and available and cheaper and faster are going to be used for nefarious purposes, then we're screwed.

• 36:38Speaker 02

  Um, I happen to believe that on the whole, human nature is good and that I define an entrepreneur as someone who finds a problem and solves a problem. And that the more entrepreneurs using these technologies to solve problems, the world is a better and healthier place. You know, it used to be that the only people who could solve significant big problems on the planet were the kings and the queens, the robber barons, the industrialists, you know, very small number of individuals. And even the best that they could do was deploy their troops or change monetary policies. Today, a single individual, you know, powered with the world's knowledge on Google with,

• 37:23Speaker 02

  with, uh, you know, generative AI on, on Gemini or, or, or GPT four can, can do something extraordinary. Uh, and so, yes, they can do evil, but I just, uh, we're still here and we're still fighting the good fight.

• 37:43Anthony Pompliano?

  We see a rise of robotics in healthcare. Um, we see the rise of AI agents in software and it feels like, uh, at some point someone's going to try to put things like that together. Uh, maybe the like most absurd and advanced, um, combination are the humanoid robots where like just take the human completely out of the, out of the equation and have a robot do everything that the human could do.

• 38:08Speaker 02

  Well, you know, and I, I've been studying them, right? Um, uh, Tesla Bot, also known as Optimus, uh, out of Tesla is amazing. Uh, there's another, um, another company called Figure. Full disclosure, I'm an investor in Figure, uh, also doing humanoid robots. And then Amica out of Engineered Arts out of the UK, amazing, uh, emotive, uh, humanoid robot, right? Um, this year at the Abundance Summit, which I hold every March, uh, we're going to spend two days on AI. We're calling it the Great AI Debate. Um, and I'm going to Bringing Mustafa Suleyman, who is co-founder of DeepMind, the CEO of Inflection,

• 38:53Speaker 02

  and Jeffrey Hinton, and Ray Kurzweil, and Eric Schmidt, and Mogadad, and Tristan Harris. And we're having a debate about is AI positive, is AI negative? Where is it going? How do you think about it? And ultimately, how do you use it to improve your business and make the world a better place? But just on the other side of that are humanoid robots. So we are seeing them now, and the prediction is millions by 2030 and billions by 2040.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  Right? And so Elon's projection and I love Elon. Trying to hold him to a schedule and a price is tough. But let's say he's off by a factor of two, and an optimist costs forty or fifty thousand dollars instead of twenty thousand bucks. You know, what can you lease a car for that costs fifty K? I don't know, four hundred bucks a month, five hundred bucks a month.

• 39:54Speaker 02

  So imagine having a fully capable optimist robot in your closet that while you're at work is cutting the grass, cleaning the house, preparing your meals, doing whatever you want. That's pretty amazing. And that's coming.

• 40:09Anthony Pompliano?

  Now, when you see the rise of that, if you, again, go to the extreme of what humans do, warfare is a huge part of, I think, where technology gets tested, gets innovated on. And we have seen the rise of drones, the rise of various weapon systems. There are now, even in certain proxy wars being fought globally, drones with explosives on them that are being flown into things. Again, it's kind of like you're mashing the robotics and technology with what should be a human, but the progress is being accomplished by just taking the human out of it and going full-on robotics and tech.

• 40:53Anthony Pompliano?

  And maybe a human might control it remotely or be involved tangentially, but it's actually getting the humans out of the way as a limiting factor for progress.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, um, listen, there's no question that AI and robotics of all form is core in the 21st century defense department. I had Palmer Lucky, the founder of Oculus on my stage at Abundance Summit last year, and he's the CEO of Anduril. And Anduril is like one of the most advanced high-tech defense companies that people have never heard of, and it's crazy what he's been able to design. But it is an AI architecture on top of physical drones and

• 41:40Speaker 02

  subs and trucks. And yeah, that's all concerning. It's concerning from how how dehumanizing it is. I think what Palmer would say is it would be much more concerning if we didn't have this ability. Warfare for the longest time has been very inaccurate. And you would drop bombs and hope you got the person. And there was lots of collateral. And his vision is what if your your bombs and your drones and your robots are smart and they can get the individual you want without the collateral damage around it. Um, there is a Star Trek episode, and I love Gene

• 42:23Speaker 02

  Roddenberry for all he explored in in Star Trek. I think it's called The Forever War. And there's this two cultures that got into a war, and they made it so neat and clean that that that the war, you know, wars are are dirty and painful and filled with catastrophes. And and you you want to stop them. And because of the ancillary impact. And in this episode, the war had become so neat and clean that people it was running a simulation. And if your if your home got bombed

• 43:05Speaker 02

  in the simulation, you'd walk into this chamber that would kill you. And it was so neat and clean that the war continued for millennia. And it just went on and on and on and on. And, you know, Captain Kirk shows up and destroys this and says, war is supposed to be ugly and dirty, so you don't want to do it ever again. So

• 43:26Speaker 02

  I don't know, AI and humanoid robotics in war, you know, it's coming. And, and, you know, is our, our treaties, our politicians, uh, smart enough to handle it? I don't know.

• 43:42Anthony Pompliano?

  Do you think that there will be a day where the President of the United States is AI or robotics? Or, you know, some version of not the natural human that we have today?

• 43:54Speaker 02

  So I think that there is going to be a day very soon that every company is, uh, is basing its leadership and its decisions on AI. I like to say by 2030, there are two kinds of companies. Those that are fully utilizing AI and those that are out of business. Right? I'm super clear about that. Uh, there have as, you know, stunts to some degree been AI board members and AI CEOs installed. You know, when I have a board meeting, when I have a leadership meeting for my companies, I have, you know, Bard or ChatGPT open.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  And I'm asking it the same questions I'm asking people. Or I might ask, hey, what would Elon Musk think about this problem we're having? Or what would Albert Einstein think about this problem? So one of the problems we have as humans, we don't know how to think other than the way we know how to think. But in using generative AI, you can get different approaches to your problem. So it's, we're there in part. I would hope that, uh, the leadership at all levels of our nation are going to be using generative AI for, uh, their, uh, their future decisions.

• 45:17Anthony Pompliano?

  What is the thing that you are most excited about when it comes to longevity? Over the next 20 years, right? We've talked about technology, we've talked about AI, we talked about Bitcoin, robotics. With all this stuff that's going on, when it's in the longevity field, what is the thing that you're most looking forward to?

• 45:35Speaker 02

  I, I think, uh, well, first of all, gaining the X prize one, um, it's, it's, it's changing people's vision of what 120 looks like.

• 45:46Speaker 02

  There was a study done at Harvard, London School of Business, Oxford, that said for every year that people remain healthy, every additional year, it's worth thirty eight billion dollars to the global economy,

• 46:06Speaker 02

  which is massive.

• 46:09Speaker 02

  And so at the end of the day,

• 46:14Speaker 02

  I want, I think it's one of the most important tipping points society can have.

• 46:20Speaker 02

  You know, I have two twelve year old boys. I had it fifty, you know, I'm looking forward to seeing them when when they turn fifty and I'm a hundred. You know, that is a beautiful thing to think about that. I think about, you know, my heart as a child was always in space. I'm excited to see humans walking on Mars, starting colonies on the moon. I'm excited to see the fulfillment of the science fiction future that will be ten, twenty, thirty years out, and I'm excited to participate in that. So all of that, you know, I love life and I want to live as much of it as I possibly can.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  So, I mean, that's the way I I think about it.

• 47:08Speaker 02

  You know, we are going to make cancer, heart disease, neurodegenerative disease, a thing of the past. It will be washed away in the wake of these longevity treatments. We will learn how to reprogram our epigenomes. Right? So I'll ask you a question that ask people to ponder this. So you have three point two billion letters from your mom and three point two billion letters from your dad. You had it at birth.

• 47:37Speaker 02

  You have the same exact software you're running at 20, at 40, at 60, at 80, at 100. If you have the same software running at 100 years old, why don't you look like you were when you were 20? Right? It's same software. Well, it's not what genes you have. It's what genes are on and what genes are off. It's your epigenome, the Greek word for above. And as we age, what happens is the ripe genes get turned on, but sometimes they don't, or sometimes the genes supposed to be off are not off. And that blurring of the lines causes aging to a large degree.

• 48:16Speaker 02

  And so some of the work done by David Sinclair and George Church and others has said, we should be able to control our epigenome, control what genes are on or off, and reverse, take your epigenetic control system back to a younger state. So that's longevity, escape velocity, for sure. So I'm looking forward to that, and I'm going to do everything I can to, including my breakfast

• 48:54Speaker 02

  that just got served up, which is some eggs and some olive oil and some avocado, which is staring at me over here, but I'll hold off. You know, I do everything I can to get there. And part of it means making choices, not to have that bowl of ice cream, not to sit on your butt all day.

• 49:24Anthony Pompliano?

  Where can we send people to get the book or learn more about the XPRIZE?

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, so the book, if you want to buy the hardcover, it's on Amazon. Just look up Diamandis and longevity, your practical playbook. If you go to demandis.com backslash longevity, you can link to the book there, but you also get a 30-page digest, which includes everything I'm doing and taking. It's a distillation of the book, and I just want to get the stuff out there. XPRIZE, X P R I Z E dot org.

• 50:00Speaker 02

  Is where you can learn about the X Prize. We have launched $500 million in prizes. Prizes to map the ocean floor, pull water out of the atmosphere. We have a $100 million prize for gigaton carbon removal that Elon funded. 6,000 teams entered that competition. And of course, our $101 million health span X Prize going on now. So, you know, that's, that's it. I, if you're interested in, in what I do for coaching CEOs,

• 50:35Speaker 02

  Abundance 360 is my CEO program that I run year round. It's part of Singular University. And then Fountain Life, we have saved hundreds of lives at Fountain Life. There's no better investment, honestly. Anyway, I'll leave it at that.

• 50:54Anthony Pompliano?

  I am, I'm inspired every time I talk with you. The future is going to be absolutely insane and awesome at the same time. And we'll do this again in the future to talk about.

• 51:03Speaker 02

  Thank you, buddy. Thank you for sharing your time with me. Grateful for you and, you know, it's, it is the most extraordinary time ever to be alive. And I like to say, you know, life is short until you extend it. So enjoy. A pleasure, Paul.