Prof G on Marketing: How to Stand Out in a Saturated Market

Welcome to the first episode of our special series, Prof G on Marketing, where we answer questions from business leaders about the biggest marketing challenges and opportunities companies face today. In today’s episode, Scott answers your questions on how to drive engagement in a saturated market, how to build your personal brand, and the unintended consequences of America’s most successful branding machines. Want to be featured in a future episode? Send a voice recording to [email protected], or drop your question in the r/ScottGalloway subreddit. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back to Office Hours with Prof G. Today, we're kicking off a special three-part series, Prof G on Marketing, where we answer questions from business leaders about the biggest marketing challenges and opportunities companies face today. What a thrill! I'm a little bit self-conscious. My whole career, not my whole career, most of my career was about brand strategy and working with CMOs and CEOs, but I am so out of shape. I've been taught in over a year and my kind of brand strategy muscles are atrophying. I'm worried about the next class I teach. I'm going to be one of those guys that should have been put on an ice floe about 15 years ago, i.e. most of the faculty at elite institutions. Anyways, a little self-conscious, but I'm going to try and get over there. Let's bust right into it. Let's get into it. He's an imposter, but he's your imposter. Question number one.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  How do you market to a world that doesn't want to be bothered? Nobody answers phone calls, texts, et cetera. What medium drives engagement?

• 1:26Scott Galloway?

  That's a good question. By the way, that question comes from Telehead Dog Fan on Reddit. My subreddit is very entertaining, entertaining and upsetting. I sometimes go on there and I think, oh, I'm not, I'm not like that. I'm a nice guy. Say hi, I'm a nice guy. Anyways, okay, Telehead Dog Fan, the mediums that drive engagement, there's just no getting around it. If you want to build a personal brand, if you want to build an aspirational brand, you have to allocate more money to social. I think about just the amount of time. I mean, you are where you spend your time. One of the reasons I got off X is I found that I was speaking in 140 characters and I was becoming terse and constantly looking for the weak point in people's arguments so that I could weigh in.

• 2:10Scott Galloway?

  And press them a soft tissue and make a character or a cartoon of their comments such that I could feel good about myself. In other words, I was becoming an asshole. I mean, that's literally what X is. It's like an asshole turns into a social media platform. And I thought, you know what? I already have too much tendency to be an asshole. I don't need an environment that turns me into an even bigger asshole. So you want to go where people are spending their time. And the bottom line is, social media is where everyone is spending their time. In addition, the people who kind of set the trend for most aspirational brands are youth, right? Once your dad starts wearing Nikes, the young people stop wearing them. So everybody wants to kind of follow the lead of an 18 to 30 year old aspirational male or female. And

• 2:51Scott Galloway?

  those people are spending way too much time on social media. So I would say that socialist engagement, I think events create a lot of engagement. Content marketing, if you're B2B, at L2, we used to put out these weekly videos that went on one of the fastest growing social media platforms in the world, YouTube, and we built essentially our own mic. Instead of paying some PR agency 10,000 bucks a month to get me on Bloomberg or whatever it was, we went straight to consumer. We went direct to consumer with our own media channels. And we would put out thoughtful research and interesting data that a ton of consumer brands, it was focused on CMOs, would watch the video and we were constantly in the selection set. So when they thought, you know, I'd really like to benchmark my digital footprint relative to Clorox or Unilever

• 3:35Scott Galloway?

  or whoever's in the competitive set of PNG, PNG would think, well, call that crazy dude and his firm L2. And within about seven years of launch, we were working with a third of the global 100 or the 100 biggest companies in the consumer world. So B2C, I think you got to be a master of social and find a voice and create two-way engagement. B2B, I think it's content marketing or thought leadership. That's my kind of quick and dirty answer. Thank you so much. Telehead Dog fan. Question number two. Our next question also comes from Reddit, user mxt240.

• 4:13Speaker 03

  I work for a giant software company. I do nerd work, not face work or management, and I am damn good at it. Every so often, I get emails telling me to build my personal brand. What the fuck does that actually mean? Should I always wear cardigans? Do I need a catchphrase? Inspirational bullshit in my email signature? I'm well-respected and well-liked by my peers, and I take time to unofficially mentor those less experienced. Isn't there value in hyper-exclusive brands that don't advertise?

• 4:41Scott Galloway?

  MXCD40, so thanks for the question. I teach an entire class on building a personal brand. A lot of people think a lot about the brand of the company they're working for, but they don't actually take the time to think about their own brand. And they might think, "Well, I'm not interested in building a brand." You have a brand whether you want one or not. A brand is essentially the promise or the associations that are linked to you. And linked to your name, linked to your visual identity, linked to you when you show up. Everybody has a certain preset set of expectations, the promise you present, if you will. And then you have to deliver, hopefully, against that performance. And ideally, you want a differentiated brand, such that when there's an opportunity for a promotion or an assignment, and they have five different cereal boxes, i.e. people to pick from, they pick you. So how do you go about that?

• 5:25Scott Galloway?

  The first thing is, I think it's helpful to think of, what are your core associations? What do you want to be known for professionally? And that is the two or three kind of adjectives, descriptors, that sort of identify... Do you want to be known as especially empathetic? That's important. Those people make great managers. Do you want to be known as especially strategic? And that is, there's a role for those people. I put them on figuring out our six- or 12-month plan. Are you kind of no-nonsense? All right, send that person, and kind of harsh, quite frankly, and good with numbers, send that person to the branch in Houston and have them do the analysis and come back and give it to me straight on what's going on with that business. There's all sorts of qualities, features, attributes that are positive or differentiate someone in the work world.

• 6:10Scott Galloway?

  And I think it's helpful to kind of identify what those three things are, those two or three things are, such that they can serve as sort of a guiding light or a religion. Think about religion. It's a set of rules that you try and shape your actions and your life around, such that you behave in a way that reinforces the teaching of Jesus Christ.

• 6:28Scott Galloway?

  Right? What would Jesus do? I remember that question at Sunday School. By the way, rest in peace, El Papa. Rest in peace. Anyways. So think of some core associations. If you want to be really formal about it, find some people in your life you trust, you trust and say, what do you think of when you hear me in a professional context, tell me you're going through this process? And not only think about the positive things, but also find out if there's anything negative. And here's how you know if that criticism is valid. If you feel as if you've been punched in the gut, that means it's true. If they say something stupid and it's mean or whatever, you can write it off. But if it's like, I remember in some of my student reviews, they said that use profanity too much, and as a result, it reduces your credibility. And it really upset me. Why did it really upset me?

• 7:11Scott Galloway?

  Because it's probably true and I kind of deep down know that it's true. Now, have I done anything about it? Fuck, no. Well, a little bit. In class, I tried to tone it down. But anyways, we're going to think about if there's any negatives that get in the way of us. Then we're going to think about visual metaphors. We are a very visual species. You need to lean into your visual metaphors. Are you losing your hair? Then shave your fucking hair like the dog when he was 30 years old. And all of a sudden, back then, in whatever it was, 19, 2004, 1994, it was seen as aggressive and different, right? Are you in good shape? Then get in fucking crazy shape. Do you have really wonderful frizzy hair? Then have out of control frizzy hair. Do you like glasses? Then wear big Sally Jesse Raphael glasses. Visual metaphors are so powerful. What's the most powerful thing about Nike?

• 7:56Scott Galloway?

  Some people would argue it's the advertising or, you know, landmark endorsements from Tiger Woods or Michael Jordan. I don't think so. I think it's the goddamn swoosh. I can recognize the swoosh in my peripheral vision. Can you recognize the Reebok logo in your peripheral vision or Puma? No. Swoosh, yes. What does that mean? It means, it means billions of times they're getting unearned media from people on the street who recognize that swoosh without even thinking about it consciously. What is your visual metaphor? What is your medium?

• 8:24Scott Galloway?

  Are you really good at giving text? Are you a great writer? Are you fantastic on TikTok? Can you put out PowerPoint? Are you fantastic speaking in front of people? Whatever your medium is, you need to identify it and then find every opportunity to display your expertise in that meeting and develop a following. I am really good in front of a lot of people. I'm not great one-on-one. I'm very good on video and decent on social media. I'm not that good on the phone. So I try and shape my interactions, my contact with others around those mediums and specifically avoid the ones I'm not good at. What is the one thing, the product you're going to own? You have to be known as the go-to person on one thing. When it comes to pivot tables, looking at forecasting, our customer acquisition strategy.

• 9:09Scott Galloway?

  Oh, we gotta go to Lisa. Okay. When it comes to recruiting, sending someone to Carnegie Mellon to do recruiting and talk about the firm, you know, Bob is just so good, so young, so handsome, so excited about the firm. That's the person we want in front of the people. Well, what about someone who knows how to manage people? They're just very good. They're a player coach. Okay, that's Catherine. We gotta put Catherine in charge of this group and we'll get better work out of them. What is the one thing you are going to own? Core associations, positives. A negative association that might be getting in the way of people getting to the core associations, the positive ones you need to dial down. What is your medium? What is your visual metaphor? And what are you going to own? Right?

• 9:54Scott Galloway?

  And then we're going to apply three hurdles. First, is it differentiated? Is that being able to do pivot tables and being known as empathetic? Is that really differentiated in this firm? You want to be different. Two, does anyone care? Is it relevant to what you do every day? And then third, what are you going to do to make it sustainable? What are you going to do to invest in it such that you pull away from the rest of the pack and consistently get better and go deeper and deeper and deeper in those chosen kind of domains which you want to own? All right, that's it. Boom, your brand is done. And yeah, it's absolutely worth it, boss. And be clear, you have a brand. It's just a question of whether you want to manage it or not. Thanks for the question. We'll be right back after a quick break.

• 10:38Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Bilt. Most of us work hard to earn our keep, but usually there's no one around to hand you a cookie when you successfully pay your monthly housing bill. No one except Bilt, that is. Bilt has expanded from their original rental rewards program, and they have a lot more going on for members now. For example, members can earn points on mortgage payments, too. Every housing payment gets you points that get you a lot more than baked goods, such as flights with top travel partners, including United and Hyatt, Lyft rides, Amazon.com purchases, and much, much more. Here's another benefit of Bilt membership. You also get access to what they call a neighborhood concierge. You can make restaurant reservations, book fitness classes, and find new local spots, all while rewarding you at more than 45,000 merchant partners. It's simple.

• 11:20Scott Galloway?

  Being a renter and now owning a home feels a lot better with Bilt. You can download the Bilt app and join the membership for where you live at joinbilt.com/profg. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com/profg. Use our link so they know we sent you.

• 11:38Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Upwork. Trying to scale your business? At some point, you're probably going to hit a point where you need some help. Sometimes the best way to break through that is bringing in the right talent at the right time. Upwork can help. Upwork is a one-stop platform where you can find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across more than 125 categories. Whether you need specialized skills for a single project or extra support to keep up with demand, it's easy to connect with experienced professionals, review their work, and find the right fit. You can move faster without taking on the commitment of full-time hires. And for businesses that need the very best talent, Upwork Business Plus provides access to the top 1% of freelancers on the platform. AI-powered matching connects you with qualified candidates in under six hours, cutting down the time spent searching. Upwork also takes care of contracts,

• 12:23Scott Galloway?

  payments, and other administrative tasks, so you can spend less time managing logistics and more time focused on what's next. Visit upwork.com/profg right now and post your job for free. That's upwork.com/profg to connect with top talent ready to help your business grow. That's U-P-W-O-R-K.com/profg. Upwork.com/profg.

• 12:52Scott Galloway?

  Question three. Welcome back. Our final question comes from Proof of Profits on Threads. They say,

• 13:00Speaker 04

  "American companies are known for their great marketing. They've been so effective that we've seen genericized trademarks. How much of a role has this played into the monopolization of America? And are America's duopolies bad for consumers? If so, what can we do to change it?"

• 13:17Scott Galloway?

  I think what you're asking is, has great marketing led to the concentration of industries where we have monopolies or duopolies that extract unfair rents from other businesses or consumers? I don't think it's their great marketing. I think it's mostly regulatory capture and a lack of FTC or DOJ, who's been essentially in a slumber for about 30 or 40 years. The bottom line is, when you have one company that controls 2/3 of all social media, Meta, one company that controls 92% of search, Google, one company that controls 50% of all e-commerce, Amazon, and one company that controls, I don't know, 50% of all smartphones and 90% of the revenues from smartphones, Apple, it probably means we'd be better off if we broke these companies up such that there'd be more entities trying to rent people's

• 14:02Scott Galloway?

  labor. Wages would go up. They'd be more focused and more risk-taking because they wouldn't be coordinating and cooperating with each other. How did Google let OpenAI ever exist? Why? Because despite the fact that the majority of AI IP resided within Alphabet, they didn't want to risk the existential threat. They didn't want to disrupt their own search business. So they weren't excited to kind of put out an AI product that might disrupt or cannibalize their Google search. So what happened? They left the door open, or they left the garage door open, and Sam Altman walked right in and took their AI. In sum, you've got to eat your own young, or someone else will. So effectively, what's happened in breakups is that they've been good for shareholders. The original seven

• 14:46Scott Galloway?

  baby bells that were broken up, or came out of a broken up AT&T, were all worth more than the original AT&T within about a decade. It's good for shareholders, good for consumers. I would argue the biggest increase in rents from Meta have been the rents on parents who have to put up with social media. That is making their kids feel shittier and shitter about themselves and there's no real options. And when you say, "Well, it's bad parenting. Just get them off of Instagram or just get them off of Snap." Well, here's the problem. They end up more depressed because everybody is on Snap or Instagram. And if they're not on it, they feel ostracized. So we're in sort of this prisoner's dilemma where we don't know what to do as parents. But we see a consolidation across majority of industries where they weaponize government

• 15:27Scott Galloway?

  and say, "Let us be regulated monopolies." They buy off senators and congresspeople from both sides of the aisle. And the DOJ and the FTC have been neutered. And you have a concentration of industry. I would want to do that. I wouldn't, why? Peter Thiel said it. Competition is for idiots. You don't want competition. You want to figure out a way to have access to cheap capital, establish yourself as a leader, which gives you more cheap capital such that you can just pull away from the competition. And then you start investing in DC where they basically say, despite the fact you have 93% share of search, despite the fact that you're radicalizing young men on Google, we're not going to move in and we're not going to break you up because there are so many really charming, highly paid people. Do you realize there are more full-time lobbyists

• 16:11Scott Galloway?

  in Washington DC, living in Washington DC, who work for Amazon than there are sitting US senators? Let me repeat that. There are more full-time lobbyists, really well-paid, they make a lot more than any senator, whose entire job is to be likeable and take senators to lunch and take them golfing and give their money for their campaign and have really thoughtful conversations about the future of e-commerce and why they should not break up Amazon. And here's the thing, when you're paid not to understand something, you're never going to understand it. So when you're paid not to understand why that concentration of power is bad, you're never going to understand it. So what do we have? Wireless. Verizon and AT&T control 70% of the US market. Soft drinks. Coke and Pepsi, 70% of the US soda

• 16:56Scott Galloway?

  market. E-commerce. Amazon. Again, somewhere between 40 and 50%, depending on how you account for it. According to the Brookings Institution, 75% of US industries have seen an increase in concentration over the past two decades. It's everything from home improvement to Big Chicken to Big Pharma. And what do they do when they have a lack of competition or they kind of wink at each other and cooperate? They raise prices. In sum, there's been a transfer of wealth. From lower and middle income households that don't have a lot of stocks to these companies in the form of higher prices, why do you think inflation is so fucking out of control? Every year, companies get more productive, which means they should be able to pass on the savings to the consumer, but instead, they increase their profits. And by the way, there's some ancillary benefit to that. It's great to be a shareholder, but what's happened to wages?

• 17:39Scott Galloway?

  Boom, they haven't moved at all, right? What's happened to household wealth? Well, the average has gone way up because the top 10%, the shareholders are killing it. So essentially, there's been a transfer of wealth from the lower and middle-class households to the households that own shares. So if you've made the jump from light speed, from being an earner to an owner, you've done really well. But the earners now have higher costs and can never make that jump to being an owner. What's the result? Dynastic caste system. Alphabet should be three companies. It should be YouTube, it should be their advertising, and then it's search and other companies. Maybe even spinoff Waymo. Apple Services should be a different company from Apple. Instagram should be an independent company, as should WhatsApp, for God's sakes.

• 18:23Scott Galloway?

  AWS should be an independent company, not part of Amazon where they cooperate and coordinate and get cheap capital to put every retailer, online retailer, out of business. What would we have? Who wins? Shareholders. Who wins? Employees. Who wins? Society, lower rents. Who wins? The tax base. Who loses? The one person who has dual-class super voting shares and wants to sit on the iron throne of all seven realms, not just Westeros. We absolutely need an absolute breakup palooza to bring costs down, to bring rents down on consumers. The concentration of industry in the United States is the culprit around inflation. Thanks for the question. That's all for this episode.

• 19:08Scott Galloway?

  If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. That's [email protected]. Or if you prefer to ask on Reddit, just post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit, and we just might feature it in an upcoming episode.

• 19:31Scott Galloway?

  This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez. Our intern is Dan Shalon. Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn. And please follow our Prop G Markets pod wherever you get your pods for new episodes every Monday and Thursday.