AirDrop Finally Comes to Android

This week, Marques, Andrew, and David talk give a few Black Friday shopping tips before digging right into Android finally getting AirDrop! After that, they spoke about the new Nano Banana image generator from Google, court documents that don't paint Meta in a good light (shocker), and a potential DJI ban! After that, it's all about the hot takes. Enjoy! Shop the merch: https://shop.mkbhd.com Links: Ars Technica - Android AirDrop Wifi Aware BowenYin @ Reddit - Nano Banana Marques Claude - Opus 4.5 announcement Reuters - Meta article Time - Meta article DJI - Potential ban blog post PCWorld - RAM is expensive This episode brought to you by: T-Mobile: https://www.t-mobile.com/switch Music provided by Epidemic Sound Social: Waveform Threads: https://www.threads.net/@waveformpodcast Waveform Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/waveformpodcast/?hl=en Hosts: Marques: https://www.threads.net/@mkbhd Andrew: https://www.threads.net/@andrew_manganelli David: https://www.threads.net/@davidimel Adam: https://www.threads.net/@parmesanpapi17 Ellis: https://twitter.com/EllisRovin TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@waveformpodcast Join the Discord: https://discord.gg/mkbhd Music by 20syl: https://bit.ly/2S53xlC Waveform is part of the Vox Media Podcast Network. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Manganelli?

  This episode is brought to you by On Investing, an original podcast from Charles Schwab. Each week, host Lizanne Saunders, Schwab's Chief Investment Strategist, and Colin Martin, Head of Fixed Income Research and Strategy for the Schwab Center for Financial Research, bring your fresh insights on what's happening in the markets and why, and what the implications might be for your portfolio. Join Colin and Lizanne as they explore questions like, how do you evaluate corporate bonds that look interesting, and what sectors are on the move right now? Download the latest episodes and subscribe at schwab.com/oninvesting, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  I'm pretty sure what they're doing is they are going to put it in all of Android like they always do.

• 0:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry.

• 0:41Speaker 02

  Why would you airdrop it to the computer that runs the soundboard?

• 0:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry.

• 0:47Speaker 01

  It's actually hilarious that that worked.

• 0:53Speaker 01

  Yo, what is up, people of the internet? Welcome back to another episode of the Waveform Podcast. We're your hosts, I'm Marques.

• 0:58Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm Andrew.

• 0:59Speaker 03

  And I'm David.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  This week, we have airdrop on Android. That's the news. That's the whole thing. That's all we're going to talk about for the next hour. And then maybe we'll have some time at the end for some hot takes. But first, a quick PSA. If you are watching this on the Friday that this episode drops, number one, we are closing in on 500,000 subscribers. And one of our goals on this Waveform Podcast channel is to hit that by the end of 2025. So if you haven't subscribed yet somehow, and you're watching us on the day it drops, do yourself a favor and get subscribed so you don't miss it. And number two, that also means it's Black Friday. Congrats. You've made it to the biggest holiday shopping day of the year.

• 1:40Andrew Manganelli?

  I heard the subscribing to the podcast is 50% off today. It's as good a day as ever to do it.

• 1:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, I heard it was 100% off.

• 1:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Damn, we really like those deals.

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50Speaker 03

  Sick. Normally it's a million dollars, so this is a steal.

• 1:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:54Andrew Manganelli?

  But Black Friday PSA. We have some tips. Chances are, you're looking at a bunch of sales right now. And you have to ask yourself a couple of questions.

• 2:03David Imel?

  Camel, camel and camel.

• 2:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Pretty much. Is this actually cheaper? Download Camel, Camel, Camel, or some price tracker, because it's probably not. Do you actually need it? Or do you just want it because it's cheaper? And have you had your eye on something, but now you're trying to buy an alternative just because it's on sale? I think we've all gone down that path before. It's never worth it.

• 2:26David Imel?

  Well, just. Yesterday, I bought a kettle.

• 2:29Andrew Manganelli?

  What kind of kettle?

• 2:30David Imel?

  A tea kettle.

• 2:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Be more specific.

• 2:34David Imel?

  It was the alternate to the expensive one, and it was on sale.

• 2:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah. Have you used it yet?

• 2:39David Imel?

  Was it actually on sale? No, but it did have good, probably fake reviews. Yeah.

• 2:44Speaker 01

  That's huge.

• 2:44Andrew Manganelli?

  I feel like every time I've like had my eyes on something and then its alternative goes on sale and then I buy that. I then wind up buying the other thing eventually because I was mad at the decision that I made on buying the thing on.

• 2:55Speaker 01

  That is tough.

• 2:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Which is then just more expensive than it was to do it in the first place.

• 2:59David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 3:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Just, just take five minutes before you buy anything today.

• 3:04David Imel?

  Yeah, it's a point if you actually need it, because if it's $5 cheaper and you didn't buy it already. Why are you buying it now?

• 3:13Speaker 01

  Okay, so let's talk about airdrop on Android, because this finally happened. I, I never thought this day would come, but apparently they've been working on this for a little bit.

• 3:20David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 3:21Speaker 01

  The update is that last Thursday, we got this random email from Google that was like a link to a blog post that was like, hey, guys, by the way, we did it. We've made QuickShare on Android, starting with pixels, Pixel 10, compatible with airdrop. And the quote here is, well, you actually asked Google how they did this, and they give you a real answer. Because if you read the blog post, it's.

• 3:42Andrew Manganelli?

  They gave him an answer.

• 3:43Speaker 01

  They gave me an answer. Said a thing that you can, you can read for us, because the blog post didn't really say how they did it. They just said that they did it.

• 3:51David Imel?

  Yeah, well, okay, so they never actually announced how they did it. However, there is some European Union stuff that Ars Technica wrote an article about that is most likely how they did it. So the Digital Markets Act got put into place recently, which. Forced Apple to adopt this new standard called Wi-Fi Aware. So the way that Apple has done airdrop in the past is that it has this protocol called Apple Wireless Direct Link, which is basically uses Bluetooth to find other devices, sets up a little mini Wi-Fi network effectively between you and another iPhone. But it's again, it's a proprietary protocol. The European Union, as part of the Digital Markets Act, forced Apple to adopt this other standard

• 4:36David Imel?

  that Google has actually had since Android 8.0, which is kind of crazy. And it forced Apple to actually put a bunch of the airdrop extra little protocol stuff inside of the standard called Wi-Fi Aware. So that was sneakily added to iOS 26. Apple obviously did not advertise that they switched over to Wi-Fi Aware. Of course not. Obviously. Yeah. And nobody really made a big deal about it. I was reading that Google probably didn't make a big deal about it because Google has also been kind of trying to repeal the Digital Markets Act because of stuff that it is doing to them that they don't like. However, Wi-Fi Aware is an open standard. So Google, who has supported Wi-Fi Aware for a very long time, basically just updated to the newest version of the standard,

• 5:21David Imel?

  which includes Apple's little tiddly bits. And. Official term. Official term. And now you're able to Quick Share to iPhones. It's kind of weird because it still is called Quick Share on Android and you can, it's still airdrop on iOS. Yeah. The other kind of strange thing. So crazy seeing Macs in here. Now, originally this Ars Technica piece was speculating that it wasn't going to work on Macs, but it does. So now you can effectively airdrop to any Apple device from a Pixel 10. The thing that is interesting is right now it is only available on Pixel 10 series. A lot of people are upset about this because they were saying like, oh, well, if Google is locking this to Pixel 10s for now, isn't that just as bad as Apple locking it to iPhones?

• 6:03David Imel?

  I'm pretty sure what they're doing is they are going to put it in all of Android like they always do.

• 6:10David Imel?

  Sorry. Airdrop.

• 6:11Speaker 02

  Why would you airdrop it to the computer that runs the soundboard?

• 6:17Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  That's actually hilarious that that worked.

• 6:19David Imel?

  So it's on Pixel 10 series right now only. I think the reason that they're doing this is because Google kind of just dropped this out of nowhere. Assume, oh my god.

• 6:27Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the same one? No, I did the, no, you Marquez did it.

• 6:30Speaker 02

  It's the pie.

• 6:32David Imel?

  Oh, you.

• 6:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, I dropped it to you. Oh, sorry.

• 6:34Speaker 02

  Andrew just pixel dropped me.

• 6:36Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm so sorry, David.

• 6:37Speaker 02

  The Mountain Dew Baja Blast Pie.

• 6:39David Imel?

  Oh, my god. Okay, well, I think the reason that they're doing this is because they, you know, own the Pixel 10. They use the Pixel 10.

• 6:46Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 6:46David Imel?

  They're not, they want to basically prod it on a wider variety of people, right? So they're like, okay, we control the Pixel 10. We can take in the data logs if it fails for Pixel 10 devices. They don't want to push it to all Android phones because then that's too big of a swath of people. That's my assumption. But I did ask Google when it happened because like you said, we got a random email on Thursday that was just casually like, by the way, guys, you can now, you can now airdrop.

• 7:12Speaker 01

  Quick little update.

• 7:13David Imel?

  And the quote that they gave me, because I was like, did you work with Apple on this or did you do it solo? They said, "We accomplished this through our own implementation. Our implementation was thoroughly vetted by our own privacy and security teams, and we also engaged a third-party security firm to pen test the situation." So, I don't know, people were saying they're gonna kill it by the weekend like they did with Beeper. But this seems like it is just a standard that is, that they cannot really get around. So.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is. So now it's, the update is out.

• 7:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  If you have a Pixel 10, you can make sure you're fully updated and go in and open any file, anything you want to do, sharing with, hit Quick Share, and you will see.

• 7:54David Imel?

  You gotta switch it to everyone for 10 minutes.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you will see a bunch of, a bunch of your Macs.

• 7:59David Imel?

  I'll do a live demonstration?

• 8:01Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, sure.

• 8:02David Imel?

  Share something with me?

• 8:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, let me go Share.

• 8:04David Imel?

  All right, we're doing it live.

• 8:06Speaker 01

  And then Quick Share.

• 8:07Speaker 02

  We did it live twice.

• 8:09Speaker 01

  Send.

• 8:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 8:10Speaker 01

  And then I gotta look for you. Is it David's M3 Macs?

• 8:13David Imel?

  David's PDA.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Oh, let's see, I see Andrew's Mac, Marquez's Mac, Waveform's Mac. I'm just gonna do David's.

• 8:21David Imel?

  Yeah, you can send it to my Mac if you want.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  All right.

• 8:23David Imel?

  Okay, Marquez would like to share a photo, airdrop. Save to downloads. Boom. And it's a photo of the sky.

• 8:33Speaker 01

  That I took.

• 8:34David Imel?

  And the side of a building that Marquez took.

• 8:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Let me do it to your phone before.

• 8:39David Imel?

  And it's cool because it sends all of the metadata and everything.

• 8:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 8:43David Imel?

  It's very good.

• 8:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I don't see your phone for some reason.

• 8:45David Imel?

  That's weird.

• 8:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I see everybody's computer in here.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  Have we tried the other way around? Have you tried sending something to this?

• 8:51David Imel?

  I don't think you can do that.

• 8:52Andrew Manganelli?

  That's what I wanted to ask.

• 8:53Speaker 03

  No, you can. Rich and I, when this was going on Thursday, spent like a solid 20 minutes just sending each other things back and forth.

• 9:00Speaker 01

  Okay, so I have, I'm airdropping right now.

• 9:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, here we go.

• 9:04Speaker 01

  I just missed it. There it is. Except David's PDA is sending something to me. It's an image open. It's a Polaroid. It's a film photo.

• 9:14David Imel?

  What do you think, what do you think about that photo, by the way?

• 9:16Speaker 01

  What do I think of this photo?

• 9:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 01

  It's pretty cool.

• 9:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Is it cooler because an iPhone sends it to you?

• 9:23David Imel?

  That's a photo of, of me, my dad carrying me.

• 9:27Speaker 01

  Is that you? And the, the baby in the picture?

• 9:30David Imel?

  Just kidding, I generated that with Nano Banana 3.

• 9:32Speaker 01

  Yikes, yikes.

• 9:34David Imel?

  Nano Banana Pro.

• 9:34Speaker 01

  Terrifying.

• 9:35David Imel?

  It's bad. It's bad that, it's bad that this is too good. This is so good. It's, it's a problem.

• 9:41Speaker 01

  Okay, so.

• 9:41David Imel?

  The misinformation is gonna fly everywhere.

• 9:43Speaker 01

  We knew this was gonna happen. Nano Banana Pro.

• 9:47David Imel?

  Pro.

• 9:48Speaker 01

  This is part of Gemini. It's their newest image generation tool, if you want to call it that. And you can just put your prompt in and it'll just generate an image and it's, it's like photorealistic images now.

• 10:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:00Speaker 01

  And they're quite good.

• 10:02David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  What I noticed, because people started tagging me.

• 10:05David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 10:06Speaker 01

  Is if you ask it to generate a YouTube tech reviewer,

• 10:12Speaker 01

  somewhere around half the time, it makes someone that looks exactly like me. And it'll look like me and it'll say it on KBHD on the thing. It's like making, it's clearly trained on some sort of YouTube videos and has like a good sense of what this is.

• 10:26Andrew Manganelli?

  It trained on your YouTube videos.

• 10:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 10:27Andrew Manganelli?

  There's no denying.

• 10:29David Imel?

  Right, and it's Google, so it's like they probably can just decide to do that, but uh it seems to alternate between me and then like three or four other somewhat like I was gonna say Tyler Stallman ish looking, sometimes Andrew looking, sometimes you like they'll look like slightly different characters we've seen in the YouTube universe before. And then you ask it again for YouTube reviewer and it's like, oh, okay, MKBHD, here it is.

• 10:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 10:52David Imel?

  Which I thought was interesting.

• 10:53Andrew Manganelli?

  This is why they did not flip out when ChatGPT was doing it, because they knew they were working on it too.

• 10:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Normally though, in the in the past, we've had to be like, oh, what is it stealing from tech? Like, remember when we first started seeing the little plant that all tech YouTubers use and we're like, okay, it's definitely using YouTube stuff? Yeah. This is just, it's just you. Some of the other ones maybe are a little bit of people, but this is just straight up you. The little profile says MKBHD.

• 11:22David Imel?

  Yeah, it just says it.

• 11:22Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Also only gives you 1.8 million subscribers, so.

• 11:26David Imel?

  Nice.

• 11:26Speaker 03

  Disrespect.

• 11:27Andrew Manganelli?

  You, yeah, but like, this is.

• 11:31David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 11:32Andrew Manganelli?

  This is messed up. There's no other way to say this, right? This is just you.

• 11:37David Imel?

  What is the generative part of generative AI again? Also, it uses the it uses the exact same wallpaper from the iPhone 16 Pro that it came with.

• 11:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, yeah.

• 11:46David Imel?

  I, yeah, I don't know, it just feels like I thought you were supposed to use a wide swath of data to generate something quote unquote new, isn't that the argument? And like, sure, this isn't a new scenario, but it's just Mark has.

• 11:59Speaker 01

  It's gen- yeah, it's generating me in different random various environments.

• 12:03Andrew Manganelli?

  With a red camera, full logo, a Samsung Flip, an SM7B, which it's wrong about because you're using that.

• 12:11Speaker 01

  It's the Ultra Voices, right? Come on.

• 12:13David Imel?

  Yeah. Anyway, yeah, the interesting, but.

• 12:17Speaker 03

  Disney's gonna sue them into the ground.

• 12:19David Imel?

  Disney? Well, I'm waiting for that time. Yeah, I did, um, I'm going to Disneyland, um, this is relevant, I promise.

• 12:30Speaker 01

  Go on.

• 12:31David Imel?

  I am going to Disneyland. Thank you. I know. It's exciting.

• 12:34Speaker 01

  Cool.

• 12:34David Imel?

  Uh, it's not. I've only been, I've been there once before. Anyway, I'm going in late March, just for one day before I do this California photography trip. And, uh, why did I bring that up? Oh yeah. The profile photo, the photo of our, our group photo for the people I'm going with, I put a photo of all of us in the Nano Banana Pro and I said, make us all Mickey Mouse and it just did. So yeah, the copyright is, um, it's out the window. These companies do not care anymore. I think we're at the point where there is so much of this stuff that companies have just given up because they're like, if we're gonna win this race, we have to not care. Yeah. So.

• 13:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Don't ask for permission, ask for forgiveness.

• 13:15David Imel?

  Nobody's gonna forgive you.

• 13:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I promise you, we will never forgive you.

• 13:20David Imel?

  We will never forget. So.

• 13:25David Imel?

  Nevermind.

• 13:26Speaker 01

  I just typed in MKBHD reviewing a horse and hit enter and I just made it.

• 13:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Your haircut is exactly the same. Like it's not even.

• 13:34David Imel?

  Horse review, the ultimate workhorse.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  It's.

• 13:38Speaker 02

  No, it's you, a horse and an F1 car.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  It says MKBHD on the camera. It's me, it's my hair, it's the yeah, black sweaty sweatshirt and it's, it is a horse.

• 13:50Andrew Manganelli?

  It used to be like, what things did it get right when most of it is wrong? And now it's like, what things is it slightly getting wrong and it's not really getting anything wrong?

• 13:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 13:58Andrew Manganelli?

  Wow. We just, we just stealing now, folks.

• 14:01David Imel?

  We are just stealing. Uh, just a couple of days later, I think only like two days later, Anthropic did release their new bestest model, uh, Opus 4.5, which is apparently extremely good at software engineering and coding. It probably will not make an image of Marquez reviewing an iPhone 16 Pro.

• 14:21Speaker 02

  I don't think, I don't think Claude can generate images at all.

• 14:23David Imel?

  Wow.

• 14:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have not given.

• 14:24David Imel?

  That's good because there is no utility to generating images besides, uh, scream people over. So.

• 14:29Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. I mean, sometimes it's fun for the meme. Like when I, like when I made that fake polymarket thing for you, David, that was pretty good, right?

• 14:38David Imel?

  You generated that?

• 14:38Andrew Manganelli?

  You generated that? When I was making fake polymarket stuff, I was photoshopping it like a real man.

• 14:44Speaker 02

  No, no, I went to, I went to like, I just Googled fake polymarket generator. And then I got, I got a good result. So yeah, no AI, but still fake. I'm just gonna stop.

• 14:53Speaker 01

  So Claude 4.5 will, will code really well.

• 14:55David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 14:56Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 14:56David Imel?

  That's great.

• 14:57Speaker 01

  Are people who code?

• 15:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 15:00Speaker 01

  I've actually seen two versions of this. I've seen, I've seen two versions. I've seen one version where people who code are using this out of it and like loving it.

• 15:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 15:09Speaker 01

  And then I've seen one version where they're like, oh, this is kind of just better than me yet.

• 15:14Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm trying to think of how we could respond to this as non-coders that wouldn't make everyone mad at us.

• 15:20Speaker 01

  It's kind of in the same way that like when we see Sora making a video and people go, oh, are YouTubers cooked? It's like, well, it's not that good yet. And that's probably mostly true about a lot of these tools. It's like, it's a good brainstorming tool. It's a good foundational like base before you actually build more on top of it. Sure. But it's not taking your job yet. But the trajectory is there.

• 15:41Andrew Manganelli?

  If I had to say the safest statement possible, it would be, I bet you most good coders know how to use it as a tool to help them, but it's not going to replace them.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 15:53David Imel?

  Yeah, there, we talked about last week, uh, Google Anti-Gravity, which is something they launched with Gemini 3, which is just an IDE that you can code in and it can do almost all of it for you. So you just sort of tell it what you want and then it'll give, it'll make a checklist. It'll say, these are the things I want to work on. Here's what I did. Do you approve? Yes, yes, yes, yes, yes. And it'll just code you an app. Like I coded Pina Colloca with it. That's sort of my, my benchmark that I've started using.

• 16:18Speaker 03

  My friends that are like in the industry and software engineers and stuff, they've basically been using these tools to do all the grunt work. And then what's more important for them now in their current roles is like the system design of it all. So they're like trying to figure out which services plug into what, but the actual like coding the API, you just, or like running the unit tests, you just have like an AI do that.

• 16:40David Imel?

  Yeah. So yeah, I don't know. And with the acceleration that we're at right now, you know, the Will Smith eating spaghetti video was not that long ago.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Dang, wait, I should.

• 16:49David Imel?

  It's much better now.

• 16:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Soon they'll be like making whole Coca-Cola commercials with it or something.

• 16:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 16:55Speaker 01

  See what she did there. Will Smith eating spaghetti. Sorry, this is, I'm doing a Gemini banana thing.

• 17:01David Imel?

  I, I just tried to and it said, I, I can help with pictures of people, but I can't depict some public figures. Is there anyone else you'd like to try? And I said MKBHD and then just did it. It just made them. So. Why don't I got it? Why they just steal my likeness? 21.

• 17:15Andrew Manganelli?

  That's like, that's such a good burn. It's just like, he ain't no public figure.

• 17:20Speaker 01

  It did Will Smith for me.

• 17:22David Imel?

  What?

• 17:23Speaker 01

  It did Will Smith for me.

• 17:24David Imel?

  Wow.

• 17:25Speaker 01

  So maybe it has no consistency.

• 17:26David Imel?

  I literally also said Will Smith eating spaghetti. It just didn't let me do it.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Wow. Wow.

• 17:30David Imel?

  Shout out to Will Smith. Um, DJI is possibly getting banned in the United States on December 23rd unless the US government completes a security audit, which will most likely not happen. Um, under the FY25 NDAA, the Federal Year 25 National Defense Authorization Act, unless the audit is done, it will, DJI will automatically be added to the FCC's covered list, which would effectively be banned new DJI products from entering the US. New ones? Yes. Uh, but they also probably would not be able to sell within the United States either. Gotcha.

• 18:04Andrew Manganelli?

  And so this at first I was like, hasn't this happened 20 times? But that was only for drones, right?

• 18:10David Imel?

  Sorry. So we try to run a show here and be professional and you guys just. I'm usually muted. Yeah, I was muted and I unmuted it so that I could. I thought one of you texted me. I was like, why does this keep happening? Okay.

• 18:26Andrew Manganelli?

  I keep thinking this has happened already, but the differentiator here is this is just all DJI products and previously it was just drones, right?

• 18:32David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay.

• 18:33David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 18:33Andrew Manganelli?

  So that is kind of like, they do sell a lot more stuff now.

• 18:36David Imel?

  The Osmo is extremely popular.

• 18:38Andrew Manganelli?

  It's so good.

• 18:38David Imel?

  The Osmo 2.

• 18:39Andrew Manganelli?

  This is like actually, I mean, yeah, people are going to lose good products from this. And you have a question in here?

• 18:46David Imel?

  Yeah. So I'm wondering if this includes Hasselblad. I don't think it will, but I think that DJI is terrified of the US government realizing they own Hasselblad.

• 18:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Hmm.

• 18:56David Imel?

  Uh.

• 18:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 18:57David Imel?

  Yeah. Cause don't they do a lot of scientific?

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Imaging and glass stuff too, like are they a NASA supplier?

• 19:04David Imel?

  I do not know.

• 19:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Zeiss is like all over the place.

• 19:08David Imel?

  Probably Zeiss. But yeah, I'm curious about that. So we'll see, considering it's over the holidays that the government would have to do this audit, I don't think they're going to, and they've been talking about banning DJI forever. So I think they're just gonna get banned.

• 19:22Andrew Manganelli?

  So if there's any hot DJI Black Friday sales, gobble them up.

• 19:27David Imel?

  Now, honestly, if you want something.

• 19:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Forget everything I said before and buy all DJI products.

• 19:33David Imel?

  Yeah, so that's, that's fun. They will go the way of Huawei, I guess.

• 19:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Your X2D Mark II is way cooler now because it's contraband as well as a sick camera.

• 19:42Speaker 01

  I don't have the one I bought yet. I just have.

• 19:45David Imel?

  You still don't have the one you bought?

• 19:46Speaker 01

  That's December now, apparently.

• 19:50David Imel?

  Before the 23rd?

• 19:51Speaker 01

  Really iffy, really dicey on that one. Yeah, I have a review in it as of right now.

• 19:55David Imel?

  Okay, yeah.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 19:57David Imel?

  They sent me one to check out finally and yeah, it's really dang good.

• 20:02Speaker 01

  Do you want to talk about how great it is?

• 20:03David Imel?

  It's.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  It's the sickest.

• 20:05David Imel?

  So good.

• 20:05Speaker 01

  It's so good.

• 20:06David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:07Speaker 01

  It's truly an incredible. And you have the 35-100 lens as well?

• 20:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:10Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah. That combo is like.

• 20:14David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:15Speaker 01

  Did I get my hot take on primes yet? Did I say that here?

• 20:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:17Andrew Manganelli?

  So many times.

• 20:19Speaker 01

  Okay, perfect. This is a great opportunity to run that back. I would, I love that this is a good zoom. I would, I am so happy that this is like the opposite direction of like Hasselblad in the past, which is, you know, fun, very deliberate, one shot at a time.

• 20:35David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:35Speaker 01

  But it really removes like a big fun element of using cameras, which is just in the moment, shooting, street shoots, random things that happen that you weren't expecting to shoot and having zoom and having that camera actually, like autofocus well.

• 20:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:51Speaker 01

  Opens up a whole new possibility.

• 20:53David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 20:53Speaker 01

  Of things you can shoot with it and it's great.

• 20:55David Imel?

  For me, the big things are like the UI is so good. It's so fast. It has a terabyte of storage built into the camera. You can just connect it to your computer and transfer all the files really quickly.

• 21:06Speaker 01

  So good.

• 21:06David Imel?

  Yeah, it's, it's a pretty incredible camera. It's, yeah.

• 21:10Andrew Manganelli?

  How are we not at a point where a terabyte of storage is in literally, my remote should have a terabyte of storage built into it. I,

• 21:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 21:18Andrew Manganelli?

  What's the holdup here?

• 21:19Speaker 01

  I'm kind of surprised that more cameras, I mean, that's the funny thing though, too, about the Hasselblad is it doesn't, it doesn't even shoot video at all. So you kind of already know what's the file size you're gonna get from whatever people start to shoot with it. So yeah, terabyte is plenty for photos.

• 21:31David Imel?

  It's like 36 megapixels per photo, though.

• 21:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 21:33David Imel?

  I mean, um, megabytes.

• 21:34Speaker 01

  But if it was a camera that's capable of video, then maybe you'd be not as sure. But like also, just like iPads, just like iPads, I can buy a terabyte one if I want, or I can buy a lesser storage one if I want. They should just have an A7 with a terabyte built in, or an A7 with four terabytes built in for the guy who wants to just shoot all the videos internal. And it's fast enough to shoot whatever the highest bitrate 4K video that it shoots. You should just, that should just be a product that exists.

• 22:00David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  You're welcome.

• 22:01David Imel?

  Very few camera companies are doing this, like Leica in their regular M11 had 64 gigs, which is not that much when you shoot 60 megapixel photos. The M11P has 256 gigs, which is much better. But basically, no manufacturers are doing this. Um, and I don't know if they're just terrified that eventually the internal NAND will break and they have to like get it replaced or something.

• 22:22Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, it still has an SD card slot, right?

• 22:23David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I guess they would still have to repair it, but.

• 22:26David Imel?

  But considering it's super fast.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  The Ricoh GR4 has 53 gigabytes of internal memory.

• 22:32David Imel?

  Okay, so I guess everyone's moving over to it, because the GR4 is like brand new, so.

• 22:37Andrew Manganelli?

  X106 does not.

• 22:38Speaker 01

  Canon, Sony, yeah, doing it.

• 22:40David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:41Andrew Manganelli?

  We have an idea for our bonus camera episode coming up.

• 22:44David Imel?

  Oh.

• 22:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Hopefully next month.

• 22:45David Imel?

  Okay.

• 22:46Andrew Manganelli?

  But we'll see.

• 22:47Speaker 01

  All right.

• 22:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 22:48Andrew Manganelli?

  No spoilers.

• 22:49Speaker 01

  I'll keep shooting, though, in the meantime.

• 22:50Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 01

  I love the camera.

• 22:51David Imel?

  Well, potentially rip DJI. One last thing.

• 22:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Pour one out.

• 22:56David Imel?

  Um, that I wanted to mention real quick, Threads just added the ability to add podcast embeds to your profile.

• 23:03Speaker 01

  That's true. That's good. This is good for us.

• 23:06David Imel?

  It is good for us. It's a very random update. Um, but now if you have a podcast or you just wanna, I guess, advertise a podcast that you like.

• 23:13Andrew Manganelli?

  That was my question.

• 23:14Speaker 03

  Like this one.

• 23:14David Imel?

  Yeah, you don't have to verify that you're the one that does it.

• 23:16Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you can just do it.

• 23:17Speaker 03

  You can just link it.

• 23:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. Anywhere.

• 23:19David Imel?

  Yeah. So you can link a specific episode. You can also link an entire podcast. My one, uh, big down, like, big annoyance with this is that you have to pick between Spotify, iHeartRadio, or Apple Podcasts.

• 23:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait.

• 23:33David Imel?

  Like when you click on it? No. Or when you add it to your profile? When you add it to your profile. Oh, it's not an RSS. No. Yes. This is very annoying because podcasts specifically are transferred over RSS. Yeah. And that is this open, really simple syndication. You don't have to deal with any of this. You should just be able to add the RSS link and then it opens whatever podcast player you use. Because I use Pocket Casts. A lot of our listeners use Pocket Casts. I do too. Yeah, and also, you know, Spotify is basically the only multi-platform one because literally nobody uses iHeartRadio. Why did they even add iHeartRadio? This is just like the most Threads way of implementing this. Like it's open? Question mark, but not really.

• 24:13Andrew Manganelli?

  And this is not on Instagram? Just Threads?

• 24:16David Imel?

  Just Threads.

• 24:16Andrew Manganelli?

  I wish it could be on Instagram. So then all the people who steal our content could, we could at least be like, yeah, put the link in your description so we get some actual views out of it.

• 24:25David Imel?

  Yeah. So, I don't know. It's a weird feature. Instead of focusing on this, I would really love if you just completed your Fediverse integration, which you have not done. Or let us do like anything. Like it would be cool to also put a YouTube channel there. Yeah. I would like that. That's true. Yeah. Good point. Anyway. Trivia.

• 24:49David Imel?

  The edit on this is gonna be wild. What do you want us to say, Adam?

• 24:53Speaker 02

  When I wrote this trivia question, or when I wrote my first trivia question, I realized I had written the exact same Black Friday trivia question that I had written last year. So we've officially been doing this so long that I, it all blends together. But I have a new question, a banger. Because I am finally looking into, and get this, retiring the 12 Mini. I've heard this before. And so I was like, guys, Black Friday is coming up. I should be able to get a cheap iPhone. Turns out, you can't. All of the iPhone Black Friday deals are frankly pitiful unless you sign up for like an $100 a month Verizon contract.

• 25:37Speaker 02

  But they weren't always this bad. And in researching this trivia question, I found a Black Friday deal from 1994 from a retailer that doesn't exist anymore.

• 25:47David Imel?

  For the cheapest iPhone?

• 25:50Speaker 02

  From a retailer that doesn't exist anymore called CompUSA that was offering this. Get ready, guys. Are you ready?

• 25:57David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 25:57Speaker 02

  An Apple Performa 630 CD with a 14-inch color CRT monitor and an HP Inkjet printer for how much in $19.94?

• 26:10David Imel?

  That's like a lot of things.

• 26:11Speaker 02

  That's a lot of things.

• 26:12David Imel?

  Many things bundled together.

• 26:14Speaker 02

  And if, you know what, I'll be, I'll be kind. If you can give this to me in $19.94 or you can give it to me in September 2025, because that's the last, that's the last month we have inflation data for.

• 26:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Do we have to signify which one we're guessing?

• 26:30Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 26:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 26:32Speaker 02

  Trying to pull a fast one on me.

• 26:33Andrew Manganelli?

  Maybe. Pixel 10 is on sale right now. $200 off.

• 26:37Speaker 02

  Hmm. Oh, and I guess I could finally airdrop with it.

• 26:40Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the most pixel thing ever.

• 26:41David Imel?

  On Google.

• 26:42Speaker 02

  I think, I think what I saw was from Apple, if you spend like $1,200 on the iPhone 17 Pro, they will give you a $75 gift card after the fact.

• 26:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Nice.

• 26:56David Imel?

  Nice.

• 26:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Do you know how many sold?

• 26:58David Imel?

  AirPods for our $70 right now.

• 27:01Andrew Manganelli?

  All right. Well, we'll think about this one. Answers will be at the end like usual, and we'll be right back.

• 27:14Speaker 01

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• 28:19David Imel?

  All right, welcome back. For more depressing content, we go to Ellis today. There are-

• 28:25Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm the sad guy.

• 28:26David Imel?

  There was a big thing that came out against Meta again for the one millionth time, but this one's even more depressing than usual, so Ellis is gonna break this down for us.

• 28:35Speaker 02

  Yeah, so this happens every now and then, like, there's a leak or whatever, and we find out that people at Meta, I'm trying to choose my words very carefully-

• 28:44David Imel?

  Don't care.

• 28:45Speaker 02

  Allegedly. No, it's not that. No, that's the thing, is they find out they do care, and they're powerless to-

• 28:51David Imel?

  Stop it.

• 28:51Speaker 02

  To stop the not caring of other people at the company.

• 28:55David Imel?

  Careless people, as they say.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  Long story short, there is a law firm called Motley Rice. They are suing all the big social media companies. I think it's four of them. I forget which four. But Meta's one of them, TikTok is another. I think it's Meta, TikTok, Snapchat, one other one. I don't know. The important thing is that, as they're suing on behalf of school districts alleging that these products are really addicting for kids, and obviously they are, and the companies knew that they were addicting and decided not to act on that information. So what happened is, there's a bunch of filings, a bunch of discovery, I'm not like a legal person, and a lot of these documents and pieces of evidence got unsealed.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  So we got to see a bunch of internal communications and deposition transcripts and other stuff from this court case that was really illuminating. And before you go read this stuff yourself, just know there's some, like, unfortunately, some, like, kind of dark stuff in here that, like, we don't really want to talk about on Waveform. It involves, like, kids being hurt. It's, like, not what we're interested in. But there were some really funny quotes by Meta employees that I did really, really want to share with a little bit of context. And before I share these quotes, I feel obligated to say that Meta has already responded to this. And Meta said, and I'm going to read the exact Meta spokesperson quote.

• 30:21Speaker 02

  "We strongly disagree with these allegations, which rely on cherry picked quotes and misinformed opinions in an attempt to present a deliberately misleading picture. The full record will show that for over a decade, we have listened to parents, researched issues that mattered most, and made real changes to protect teens."

• 30:38Andrew Manganelli?

  Most of this filing was from an investigation in 2020, right?

• 30:44Speaker 02

  It's an ongoing court case that has been going on for years. Some of these depositions were from as old as 2021, I want to say. I don't know when these DMs came out, but they are investigating things that happened at Meta as far back as 2017.

• 31:02Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  I believe. So there's some things that, you know, are pretty easy to understand that we, I think we've all heard about before. For example, there was an internal study at Meta called Project Mercury that was, Meta hired the company Nielsen that does media research to investigate what the psychological effects of quitting Meta products, specifically Facebook, were on users. The results were resoundingly, people were happier, less anxious, less lonely, lived better lives when they quit Facebook. And Meta just sort of killed the entire project and made sure, and hid all the findings. And their reason was like, oh, you know, like, there's so much, there's this narrative in the media that Meta products are bad. And so, you know, if you're going to quit Facebook, of course, you're going to feel

• 31:48Speaker 02

  better because everyone already believes that Meta products are bad, which is a crazy argument to make, in my opinion, but you know, it's sort of, I guess, works. Then there were a bunch of stuff that came out of Meta staffers sort of being like, this Nielsen study really does show that, you know, people are healthier.

• 32:06Andrew Manganelli?

  There's an impact on social comparison.

• 32:07Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:08Andrew Manganelli?

  Unhappy face emoji was the exact.

• 32:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, there's an impact on, on social comparison. Unhappy face emoji was the, the thing. Another Meta staffer wrote, "This is like the tobacco industry doing research and knowing cigs are bad and then keeping that info to themselves." That is an exact quote. Another user experience researcher wrote, "Oh, my gosh, y'all. IG is a drug." We're basically pushers, which is a crazy thing to write about the company that you work for. Another UX researcher was recommending that Meta release this info to the public and wrote, "Because our product exploits weaknesses in the human psychology to promote product engagement and time spent, we need to alert people to the effect that the product has on their brain." But we still give it out.

• 32:55Speaker 02

  But we still did not. It is worth noting that Meta does not study addiction. They only study problematic use. I don't know exactly what that means, but what they did consider problematic use is, I guess, up to someone. The worst. So another thing, I don't know if you remember, so, does anyone remember what, I don't, I didn't know this codename, but there's something called Project Daisy where Instagram hid like counts. Yeah. They, I was one of the accounts selected to beta test that, and none of my friends were, and I sounded like a crazy person, being like, there's no likes on Instagram anymore. This is really weird. And the goal of that was to try to make teens feel better,

• 33:38Speaker 02

  because teens were sort of being encouraged to compare themselves to others, which is, you know, not easy when you're a teenager. And that got killed because it, you know, affected engagement and time spent in the app. And one of the quotes that came out, I can't even, this one is so crazy. One of the quotes that came out was someone on the growth team insisting, and this is an exact quote, "It's a social comparison app. [bleep] get used to it." Incredible, incredible care for your children. Here's, here's another crazy thing that came out is this, and I'm just going to read, this is from Time Magazine, I'm just going to read this exactly as Time wrote it.

• 34:19Speaker 02

  "Meta used location data to push notifications to students in what they called 'school blasts', presumably as part of an attempt to increase youth engagement during the school day. As one employee allegedly put it, 'One of the things we need to optimize for is sneaking a look at your phone under your desk in the middle of chemistry.' Smiley face." Just fantastic stuff right here. Time has a great article on it. Reuters has a great article on it.

• 34:49Speaker 02

  And if you're not okay, that's fine, because just now, to me, and I'm going to wrap up this very sad story. Like this, I feel like there's this narrative that Meta's been pushing that time spent in app is not the most important metric to their business. They've said this sort of roundabout ways that they they value other things. And to me, all of these leaks indicate that that does not seem to be the case. That time spent is still the most important way Meta makes money off of their products. Which I

• 35:25Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the every company is time spent on app because more time spent on app equals more time to sell you things.

• 35:32Speaker 02

  No, but here's the thing, I'm actually going to push back on that narrative a little bit because of how big. And I cannot believe I'm like, I don't want to sound like I'm defending TikTok. But the TikTok shop really does change that for that platform. I can't remember where I read this, but I've read a bunch, a bunch of different articles about how the TikTok shop is so huge globally that they're able to make money off of that. And they don't, the ads part of TikTok is not as big a part of their business in the same way Meta is structured.

• 36:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, but if you're on TikTok for longer, you can get more things on the TikTok shop and make more money.

• 36:08Speaker 02

  I need to find this research. It was really, it was really clear that while they do want you to stay on TikTok for a long time, what they more prioritize is you sending products to your friend, engaging with products and not just being on the app all day. Whereas in this meta thing, we found out like, where, what time are kids not on the app? Oh, in class, like, we should optimize the app to get them on the app in class.

• 36:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I, I guess, last thing, I'll push back on that as being one of the main functions of TikTok is when you're kind of done and you hit back to exit the app, it refreshes the feed and tries to hook you on another. Like, ultimately, all of that boils down to like, they might prioritize this specific way of making money. But in all of those ways, this is probably why Meta, Meta says, we're not, our primary goal isn't time spent on app. But it's like, they have a primary goal that they put, the way that goal gets hit better in every single scenario possible is more time spent on the app. I think it's just logical.

• 37:11Speaker 01

  Same with YouTube to an extent.

• 37:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Same with everything, same with this podcast, probably like.

• 37:16Speaker 01

  More time spent.

• 37:17Andrew Manganelli?

  I know you want to spend more time with us because we. But like

• 37:21Speaker 02

  Yo, but we will say conclusively, if you're in class right now.

• 37:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 37:27Speaker 02

  Turn off the podcast.

• 37:29Andrew Manganelli?

  You've got plenty of dishes at home.

• 37:31Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:31Andrew Manganelli?

  Chill.

• 37:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:32Andrew Manganelli?

  We'll be there later.

• 37:33Speaker 02

  This is a dish podcast. Anyway, like I said, Meta refutes these claims. They claim they're cherry picked. This is ongoing litigation. This is all alleged. But I thought it was pretty crazy and I wanted to talk about it this week.

• 37:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I talk about a crazy, more lighthearted article?

• 37:52Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 37:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Headline I read today?

• 37:53Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 37:55Andrew Manganelli?

  This is from PC World and I just thought, this is very short, but I thought it was too funny. It says, RAM prices are so out of control, stores are selling it at market prices. So basically.

• 38:04Speaker 02

  As a seafood lover.

• 38:07Andrew Manganelli?

  This is crazy. It's so, a store in California called Central Computers and people have also seen something similar like this at microcenters. But they're essentially not pricing RAM at stores right now because of how much the prices are fluctuating. They have to just put up signs that basically say, ask a sales associate or just bring it to the counter and find out. Catch of the day. Like we, RAM is seafood right now because of trying to get.

• 38:34Speaker 02

  Farm to table? Straight from the.

• 38:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Compute to table is not cheap these days, but um, I, this, this just gave me a good laugh. Laugh. It just says like, due to a global shortage of memory chips, RAM and related components have recently seen an increase in 20, 50%. They're fluctuating daily. Um, because of this, we can't just play fixed prices on certain products at this time.

• 38:55Speaker 02

  Didn't, correct me if I'm wrong, didn't Wendy's experiment with this?

• 39:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, they did.

• 39:02Speaker 02

  Didn't Wendy's experiment with dynamic pricing?

• 39:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I think so. They, they basically did like peak pricing.

• 39:08Speaker 02

  Yeah. First they came for our baconators.

• 39:11Speaker 01

  It is interesting in certain, in certain commodities, we uh, like gasoline is like, we are okay with market pricing in certain cases. But when it's certain things, it seems ridiculous that it's market pricing. Like obviously, if you're also, this is like, I'm pretty sure this is a small company. Like Central Computers is probably small enough that they don't have a ton of supply and like a very reliable, like inventory supply. They probably have to do something like this where if you're Best Buy or whatever, and you have a ton of, of suppliers and you can sort of account for that. You probably aren't doing this ridiculous like market pricing thing and you can eat some of the dips in profit. But yeah, it is fascinating.

• 39:51David Imel?

  I feel like they could just price it to a certain, like price it a certain amount higher than they buy it for though, right? Couldn't they just do that?

• 39:58Speaker 02

  It does seem like Central Computers is a pretty local chain to the Bay Area. And so, yeah, they probably don't have scale on their side and they're at the way of their distributor.

• 40:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I bet, yeah, I bet that's one is like it coming in and with not just like demand, but also potentially tariffs. I'm sure this could be changing literally by how much they pay for it. And also if you, everyone loves scalping these days. I don't know why Gary Vee, but like everyone loves to just buy stuff and sell for more expensive. Because heaven forbid, anyone gets a deal. So like, if they sell this at a normal price, I'm sure someone will come in, buy everything. And then just go resell it and make the money anyways. I'm sorry, I hate scalping so much.

• 40:37Speaker 02

  I, I think it's, you brought up a really interesting point, Marquez. Cause like, if I'm like, if we're talking about like oysters, you know, something that's.

• 40:46Speaker 01

  Milk.

• 40:47Speaker 02

  No, I want to do oysters because oysters are something that have like such a short shelf life. Like, like you, you, you are eating them intrinsically, like within a week or two after they came out of the ground, you know? You can't, you can't stockpile oysters, you know? That's something I'm okay with being market price. A Baconator, which was clearly made three and a half years ago and stored in some underground bunker.

• 41:10Andrew Manganelli?

  You could have used the Ram example. We have it right here. We're like, no Baconator.

• 41:14Speaker 02

  Ram gets, don't we get a new DDR number like every year or something like that? I would argue that Baconator.

• 41:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Ultra Max.

• 41:23Speaker 02

  Anyone on Twitter, if you know, what is made sooner or like what has what spends longer in storage before being sold? Baconators or sticks of ram?

• 41:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Wendy's is fresh, never frozen.

• 41:37Speaker 02

  Is that?

• 41:38Speaker 01

  Allegedly.

• 41:38Andrew Manganelli?

  It's like their whole thing.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  They probably keep it at 33 degrees Fahrenheit.

• 41:42Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not frozen.

• 41:45Speaker 02

  It's not frozen. It's not. I'm not touching you.

• 41:47Andrew Manganelli?

  Never frozen, never frozen.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  That's funny. Yeah. We were thinking, we got a fun game coming up in the next segment. So why don't we do like a little teaser?

• 41:56Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's do one of them.

• 41:57Speaker 01

  Yeah, before we actually get into it.

• 41:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 42:00Speaker 01

  So this is our tech hot takes game.

• 42:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, Marquez is doing his tech hot takes video this week.

• 42:07Speaker 01

  I think it's a lot of fun.

• 42:08Andrew Manganelli?

  It's super fun. We do it like once a year at this point, but Harper and I just collected way too many. Usually do like five or seven Harper and I probably grabbed like 50. So I figured, why not bring some over to the pod?

• 42:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I like that.

• 42:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Let's let us talk about it and whine for a little bit. And you can enjoy our whining.

• 42:26Speaker 01

  So that sold it, right? Yeah. So we're gonna, we're gonna evaluate these takes and see if they're hot or not, and if they're good or not.

• 42:33Andrew Manganelli?

  And if we agree with them.

• 42:33Speaker 01

  And if we agree or not. So you want to do the first one?

• 42:36Andrew Manganelli?

  Which, pick one, pick which one you like the most.

• 42:38Speaker 01

  Let's go top to bottom. Let's go first.

• 42:40Speaker 02

  All right.

• 42:41Speaker 01

  First hot take from Gregory McFadden, Apple Vision Pro is still the most exciting tech product release in the last five years.

• 42:52Speaker 01

  Okay, so.

• 42:53Speaker 02

  I would say disagree.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Well, that's what makes it hot is it's very easy to disagree with, but let's go with, if you do agree, how would you justify it? Apple Vision Pro is the most exciting.

• 43:06Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll try and justify it semi anecdotally.

• 43:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:09Andrew Manganelli?

  Look at our, it's already the most viewed video on the MKBHD channel.

• 43:14Speaker 01

  That's a fact.

• 43:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  Which means there's maybe the most, it's maybe the most interesting. It has the most interest.

• 43:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I think exciting is the key word here. Like, I think this is not most successful. This is not most useful. This is not necessarily totally game changing, but in terms of excite on the internet.

• 43:34Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 43:34Andrew Manganelli?

  It's hard to argue against it.

• 43:35Speaker 01

  I have a slight counterpoint that we could maybe talk about. Apple M, Apple M series chips, right? M1.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  That is exciting. Past five years. It is past five years because it came out in 2020. Yeah, yeah, it came out in 2020. So, you know, I feel like that the M series chips, Apple silicon is the most like. It's a lot of other superlatives. I mean, it is exciting. It's a lot of superlatives. It's probably their best product. It's probably their most impactful, most improved product. Yeah. It's probably the most powerful product.

• 44:12Andrew Manganelli?

  How many TikTokers were making M five and series videos when it came out when the Vision Pro was like the only thing on in like broken outside of the tech space on TikTok when it came out?

• 44:23Speaker 02

  I like I as someone who is like.

• 44:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Y'all are in our niche right now.

• 44:27Speaker 02

  I was getting completely throttled by the the last in generation of Intel MacBook Pros. And I remember when they announced that that M one MacBook Pro dude, it was like.

• 44:39Speaker 01

  Define exciting.

• 44:40Speaker 02

  It was like every single thing you've ever wanted.

• 44:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:43Speaker 02

  Here it is.

• 44:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Cool. I don't think any of us are disagreeing with that.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  I think in smaller, I think to your point, in smaller communities, there are more exciting products. But if you want to go by total like mass, like I'm trying to think of a product that came out in the last five years that's new that more people know about and know exists. Like our parents all know about VR headsets now. Like all every, you probably don't know anyone who's been sentient for the last five years who hasn't heard of the Apple Vision Pro. Where I think even some of the most popular and and best products from the last five years aren't quite on that level, which is crazy to say. So I think this might be a valid hot take. I'm trying to think of a more exciting tech product to the masses.

• 45:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:28Speaker 01

  That actually hit. I'm asking Gemini right now. Most people that bought a MacBook in the last five years. Chat GPT. Don't know what chip is inside. Chat GPT did come out in 2022. Chat GPT is a tech product. Yeah. Is it exciting to people? Kinda.

• 45:43Andrew Manganelli?

  That's true.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Anna knows what I'm about to say. Controversial.

• 45:48Speaker 02

  Motherf*** bird buddy.

• 45:51David Imel?

  True. Oh, so Gemini says that ChatGPT is the most exciting new product.

• 45:57Andrew Manganelli?

  That's pretty Gemini said that.

• 45:59David Imel?

  That's hilarious.

• 45:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, it's really funny.

• 46:00David Imel?

  It said that the most exciting hardware product is the Steam Deck.

• 46:04Andrew Manganelli?

  That's not even.

• 46:07Andrew Manganelli?

  You shouldn't have said that because it doesn't help your first point by being that wrong the second time.

• 46:12David Imel?

  Number three says Apple Silicon. Okay. Number four, it says Apple Vision Pro. Uh huh. Number five, it says the maturation of foldable phones. Foldable, some people, yeah. Is that that exciting? So it's a summary verdict, most transformative ChatGPT, most fun Steam Deck.

• 46:31Speaker 02

  The Steam Deck, I think, might give Apple Vision Pro a run for its money. I feel like so many people.

• 46:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Are you kidding me?

• 46:38David Imel?

  In total generated excitement for humanity?

• 46:40Speaker 02

  I thought gamers were like so.

• 46:42Andrew Manganelli?

  But that's you're keep you, I feel like you guys keep saying like, this is so cool in this niche right here that goes against everything we're talking about.

• 46:50Speaker 02

  I would argue outside of the tech bubble, like, like if you just go up to random people on the street and you said, Apple Vision Pro, they'd be like, oh, that stupid useless thing that nobody has.

• 46:59Andrew Manganelli?

  And you'd and you know, and you'd say, and what about the Steam Deck? And they'd be like, the.

• 47:03Speaker 02

  They'd be like, no, no, no, no, no.

• 47:05Andrew Manganelli?

  A regular person would be like, the Steam Deck?

• 47:07Speaker 02

  A regular person plays video games. A regular person does not care about a $4,000 VR headset.

• 47:13Andrew Manganelli?

  A regular person knows about that headset and is like, Steam Deck is that Xbox or PlayStation?

• 47:18Speaker 02

  No, I'm pushing back on that.

• 47:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I.

• 47:21Speaker 02

  I don't think you, I don't, I think you.

• 47:22David Imel?

  I did a Google search trends. I just did Google search trends. Apple Vision Pro is about 3X the the search volume of.

• 47:30Andrew Manganelli?

  I don't think there's a single metric.

• 47:33David Imel?

  Although, look at this, look at this. Wow, this actually shows how badly Vision Pro failed. So when Vision Pro first came out. Screenshot this. It was stupidly popular, but it died immediately and had no search volume until the M5 version came out.

• 47:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh, no, no, is that? No, no, that's announcement and release.

• 47:52David Imel?

  Announcement and release. Well, the M5 version didn't even make a mark. Register the record at all. So they like the search volume for like a week was 3X. What Steam Deck has ever been. However, Steam Deck has continual interest over time. Much, much higher than Vision Pro.

• 48:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I'd take eighteen Steam Decks before I would buy a Vision Pro. I think it's way better of a product.

• 48:14Speaker 02

  You sound pretty excited.

• 48:15David Imel?

  It says, oh, it does say average Steam Deck is way more popular than Vision Pro. That's what it says.

• 48:20Andrew Manganelli?

  Over time.

• 48:20Speaker 01

  I guess that's one metric. I'm just trying to think, I'm trying to quantify this as total excitement generated for humanity. And like, how many, that's a combination of total exposure and total excitement per person that sees it.

• 48:35Andrew Manganelli?

  By that definition, then, I would go ChatGPT over the Apple Vision Pro.

• 48:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, because it just has hundreds of millions of people.

• 48:43Andrew Manganelli?

  The whole economy is moving on ChatGPT right now.

• 48:46Speaker 01

  I think that's it.

• 48:47David Imel?

  That's actually probably the real answer.

• 48:48Andrew Manganelli?

  I want to think of it. I guess I, I definitely thought more gadget, physical gadget.

• 48:54David Imel?

  Exciting means by Oxford Languages, causing great enthusiasm and eagerness.

• 49:01Andrew Manganelli?

  In this essay, I will.

• 49:02David Imel?

  I wouldn't say that Vision Pro causes enthusiasm. But eagerness, maybe?

• 49:09Speaker 01

  Egerness in a cheaper version. Like, there's, there's, yeah, yeah. It is definitely interesting.

• 49:14David Imel?

  An exciting breakthrough.

• 49:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:17David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  It's definitely.

• 49:19David Imel?

  I think it's gonna be ChatGPT.

• 49:20Speaker 01

  ChatGPT is probably the correct, actual answer. But Greg, that's a good hot take. It's a good hot take.

• 49:27David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 49:27Speaker 01

  All right, we'll take a quick break. We're gonna have way more hot takes after the break.

• 49:30David Imel?

  I'm excited.

• 49:31Speaker 01

  But that, of course, means we have time for one more trivia question.

• 49:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Trivia dude, it's trivia dude, it's trivia dude.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  Before I pass it to my coworker Adam, I just want to say someone podisted in the MKBHD subreddit, I feel like Ellis would like this video. And it got zero upvotes. I just want you to know that I watched it and I did like it.

• 49:52Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 49:53Speaker 02

  So thanks. I don't have a Reddit account, so I can't. It's, it's about AI overview. It was about AI overview and it might have also been about hot dogs. It was like two of my interests.

• 50:04Andrew Manganelli?

  All you can eat buffet.

• 50:05Speaker 02

  That was it. It was an all you can eat buffet.

• 50:06David Imel?

  That was not that far off.

• 50:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. So man, I feel seen. Thank you. Nice. Okay.

• 50:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Sorry, I'm watching it right now. The AI overview is, it's, they searched all you can eat buffet near me. The overview says, you can use online search engines like Google.

• 50:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Can you?

• 50:28David Imel?

  I don't know if you can.

• 50:29Andrew Manganelli?

  I just did.

• 50:30David Imel?

  I guess you can't.

• 50:31Speaker 03

  All right. So before the podcast, before we sat down to record, David and I were talking about Aluminum OS, which is Google's new project to bring Android and like desktop computers.

• 50:42David Imel?

  Chrome OS.

• 50:43Speaker 03

  Chrome OS. Thank you. But we're not going to talk about that this week because it's just a rumor. So.

• 50:48David Imel?

  It's not a rumor. They have a job listing.

• 50:49Speaker 03

  It's a job listing. Who knows if it'll ever come out? Like, projects are canceled all the time. There's also a job listing for the Tesla Roadster. That's true.

• 50:56David Imel?

  Is it really?

• 50:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. Got them.

• 50:58David Imel?

  Shouldn't have that done by now?

• 51:00Speaker 03

  That's what I'm saying. You're just now hiring.

• 51:02David Imel?

  You should be firing people after it's done.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  Yeah. So I forget why David made a joke at my expense. And I was like, okay, every question on today's trivia will be about aluminum.

• 51:15David Imel?

  Aluminium.

• 51:15Speaker 03

  Aluminium. So this question is about aluminium. That's not it, but, but nice.

• 51:21David Imel?

  Forty-two electrons.

• 51:23Speaker 03

  Close. What is the atomic number of aluminum?

• 51:26David Imel?

  Forty-two.

• 51:27Andrew Manganelli?

  Can I ask a follow-up question?

• 51:28Speaker 03

  Depends what it is.

• 51:29Andrew Manganelli?

  What is an atomic number?

• 51:31David Imel?

  It's how many electrons it has. Protons.

• 51:33Speaker 03

  Weight of protons.

• 51:34David Imel?

  Thank you.

• 51:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 51:35David Imel?

  Yeah, protons.

• 51:36Speaker 03

  Which actually is also the electrons, the electron number, unless it's an ion.

• 51:40David Imel?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 51:42David Imel?

  You knew that.

• 51:43Speaker 03

  You know, like.

• 51:44Andrew Manganelli?

  It's the little number on the little box.

• 51:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, you know about like the periodic table?

• 51:48Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, you've seen Breaking Bad, right?

• 51:52David Imel?

  All right. Well, we'll think about that one, too. We'll be right back.

• 52:03Speaker 05

  Support for the show comes from Google Gemini. You know that moment when curiosity strikes? You're exploring a new city with the family and a sculpture catches your daughter's eye. What is that? Who made it? With Gemini, you can snap a picture and get a fully interactive breakdown of its history, architecture, and even hidden secrets. Gemini is built for moments like that. Whether you're learning something new, solving a problem, or looking for your next favorite thing, Google Gemini is here to help. Download Gemini, Google's AI app, or visit gemini.google.com to learn more.

• 52:42Speaker 01

  All right, welcome back. We got some more hot takes to talk about that didn't quite make it into the MKBHD video, but that are still hot takes that were sent to me when I asked for them. Next up, we can talk about this one from Hay Pollock on Threads, who says, "User-defined customization makes everything worse."

• 53:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I picked some of these because they're like, "Man, I want to agree with you so bad, but I feel like I..."

• 53:06Speaker 01

  I think there's, I think there are definitely two sides to this camp. There are people who look at, whenever Apple allows you to customize their home screen more, everyone's home screens get uglier. You've noticed that?

• 53:18Andrew Manganelli?

  Yes.

• 53:18Speaker 01

  Like, they used to all look the same, and they looked fine.

• 53:21Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, but they also, the options they give you are horrible.

• 53:24Speaker 01

  They give you like tinting now, they give you like the ability to put the icons everywhere, they give you widgets, they start to let you do more stuff, and I've seen some of the worst home screens in the history of the iPhone in the last two years. So, there's a valid argument for this, but also, it gives you the ability to make everything better.

• 53:41Andrew Manganelli?

  It's hard to ever want to take things away from the user, but I also agree that sometimes I'm like, "That's yucky," and I don't like it.

• 53:49Speaker 01

  Look, be cringe, be free. That's all, look, makes everything worse, makes everything look worse? Absolutely.

• 53:55Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  But I would, I would argue that it makes it better.

• 53:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Could you make the argument?

• 53:59Speaker 01

  Tried Liquid Glass?

• 54:01Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh yeah.

• 54:02Speaker 01

  It's terrible. You can't use it.

• 54:04Andrew Manganelli?

  That's not user-defined.

• 54:05Speaker 01

  But it's not customization.

• 54:07Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not customization.

• 54:07Speaker 01

  They don't let you, the only thing that you customize is, do you want it glossy, or do you want it like, kind of not that glossy?

• 54:12Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, you could change, like, when you do customization, make like, the glass where they're all see-through and everything. You can't even tell what the icons are. That's from Apple.

• 54:20Speaker 01

  I wouldn't say that's user-defined.

• 54:23Speaker 01

  That's like Apple's...

• 54:24David Imel?

  No, I know, I think they're talking about like Android.

• 54:27Speaker 01

  We're talking about like, you get to pick...

• 54:29Andrew Manganelli?

  Because you're saying, basically, that Apple's direction is good.

• 54:33Speaker 01

  No, it's horrible.

• 54:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, that's what I was saying.

• 54:35Speaker 01

  But the further you stray from a defined aesthetic, the more even worse you can make it.

• 54:42Andrew Manganelli?

  That's a good point. If the base is bad, and then you let people color on top of already bad...

• 54:47Speaker 01

  The floor is lower. Yes, exactly. The floor drops out from underneath.

• 54:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 54:53Speaker 01

  And like, the ceiling gets a little higher because you can make it a little better, but like, how many times have you looked at someone else's home screen on their phone and been like, "Ugh."

• 55:00Andrew Manganelli?

  I'm happy for them. Every time I look at Andrew's phone.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 55:02Andrew Manganelli?

  What?

• 55:03Speaker 01

  Maybe hot take. But like, we need ugo stuff, you know? We need stuff to be ugly.

• 55:11Andrew Manganelli?

  You can't appreciate the beauty if you don't know what the ugly is.

• 55:14Speaker 01

  And also, damn.

• 55:14Speaker 02

  Then why are you hating on LeBubus all the time?

• 55:17Speaker 01

  Cause they're ugly.

• 55:20Andrew Manganelli?

  This is why, okay, I honestly think this was the best one out of everything because it's just like, it is the perfect amount of argumentative, like.

• 55:29David Imel?

  LeBubus are not user defined. LeBubus were defined by a designer who had awful taste.

• 55:35Speaker 01

  But like, okay, think of, think of, think of a croc, right? A croc is just a blank horrible looking shoe.

• 55:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:43Speaker 01

  Right? If you couldn't add anything to a croc, it would just be like, wow, another ugly shoe, whatever.

• 55:48David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:48Speaker 01

  But then you open up user customization to it.

• 55:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 55:52Speaker 01

  How many crocs do you think look better after customization or look objectively worse after you customize them?

• 55:57David Imel?

  Worse.

• 55:58Speaker 01

  They all look worse.

• 55:59Andrew Manganelli?

  Have you seen the Squidward croc?

• 56:00David Imel?

  But they are personal.

• 56:01Speaker 01

  Agreed. That's, and that's exactly what this is. It's user customized and it's personal and that one person will feel it's better and everyone else will go, we don't talk about.

• 56:09David Imel?

  Who cares? It's my croc! I don't care what you think about my croc?

• 56:13Speaker 01

  It kind of applies.

• 56:14Andrew Manganelli?

  You can tell everyone on this podcast is form over function. Cause there's so many people create, like, it's pretty obvious that all the user defined stuff, even though people make what we subjectively think is ugly, probably works really well for them. And I shouldn't be putting them down, but here we are on a podcast saying,

• 56:35Andrew Manganelli?

  just look at the screen one more time. Is that really what you want people to see?

• 56:38Speaker 01

  But they don't see it, you see it.

• 56:40Speaker 02

  You know what else, what other user customization we need to get rid of? Car wraps.

• 56:45Speaker 01

  No, highly disagree.

• 56:47Speaker 02

  I don't know, Mark has.

• 56:48Speaker 01

  Highly disagree, especially because when the Cybertruck came out and they all just looked like a dumpster refrigerator, you definitely had a higher ceiling from being able to wrap that.

• 56:56David Imel?

  Ceiling?

• 56:57Speaker 01

  The floor of course went down.

• 56:59David Imel?

  Cybertruck?

• 57:00Speaker 01

  No, the floor went down. I admit it. No, I have. I've seen lots of like gray and black and like other regular colored trucks that look better than the stainless steel dumpster that it looks like without the wrap.

• 57:11Speaker 02

  But how is that different than the iPhone tennis ball phone?

• 57:14Speaker 01

  Well, like putting a case on your phone, you're saying?

• 57:16Speaker 02

  No, no, no. When they announced the

• 57:18Speaker 01

  I like

• 57:19Speaker 02

  customization, they were like, if you love tennis balls so much,

• 57:25Speaker 02

  like, human beings do.

• 57:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 57:28Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, it's funny, because it wasn't if you like, it was if the photo of your dog likes tennis balls so much. Is that what it was? It was, it took the color from a dog with a tennis ball in its mouth.

• 57:37Speaker 01

  And it made them all yellow.

• 57:38Andrew Manganelli?

  They made them all yellow, which I kind of

• 57:39Speaker 01

  It looked horrible.

• 57:40David Imel?

  It's pretty hilarious.

• 57:42Speaker 02

  Great. It made them all lemon chalo.

• 57:44Speaker 01

  I think this is a great take, because you can probably, we can probably all agree that user defined customization always makes the floor lower.

• 57:52David Imel?

  Yes.

• 57:54Speaker 01

  And sometimes it also makes the ceiling higher, but because the floor always goes lower, you can say, God, it's just worse.

• 57:59David Imel?

  But I'm also happy for the people living in the basement.

• 58:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, do what you want.

• 58:03Speaker 02

  I agree.

• 58:03Speaker 01

  Do what you want.

• 58:04Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, we all agree that this is a great take because we kind of agree with it, but would never, ever want people to lose customization.

• 58:12Speaker 01

  I can't publicly endorse.

• 58:13Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I will never like, I will

• 58:14Speaker 01

  Pretty funny.

• 58:15Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:15Speaker 02

  I, especially as like a kid, like, an electronic needed to be customizable for me to enjoy using it.

• 58:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:22Andrew Manganelli?

  We're all probably sitting here today because we probably customized too close to the sun.

• 58:25David Imel?

  You know how much they've taken from us? You know how much they've taken from us?

• 58:29Speaker 02

  Do you know, I'm sure like, at least forty percent of the people listening to this podcast right now got yelled at by their dad because they changed the cursor on their own PC and gave the computer a virus.

• 58:41Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. That's right, yeah. That aeroglass theme on Windows XP went so hard. Okay, that's a good one. Well, we got another one from threads.

• 58:50David Imel?

  Okay.

• 58:51Speaker 01

  From J D W A Y T.

• 58:53Andrew Manganelli?

  A lot of these are threads because all the ones on Twitter were just like, crypto is not at its full potential.

• 58:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. I made the mistake of asking people to upvote their favorites, which I thought would make like, the hottest takes go to the top. It actually made the coldest takes go to the top because it had the most people agreeing with it.

• 59:10David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 59:10Speaker 01

  So you had, you had to kind of dig a little bit in threads, there was plenty of like

• 59:14David Imel?

  Ask on Reddit and then sort by controversial.

• 59:16Speaker 01

  Exactly. That's the hottest, that's the real way to get the hottest takes.

• 59:19Andrew Manganelli?

  Way to get it.

• 59:20Speaker 01

  Okay, so this person on threads says, I don't get why people are so upset that tech companies no longer ship chargers in the box. You do not need to get a new one with every new product. I still have and use the USB C charger from my Nexus 6P. What are you all doing with your old chargers?

• 59:38David Imel?

  Yeah, agree. Hundred percent agree.

• 59:40Andrew Manganelli?

  Okay, so this is hot.

• 59:42David Imel?

  I'm hard disagree.

• 59:43Andrew Manganelli?

  Hundred percent agree with that.

• 59:43David Imel?

  Really?

• 59:44Speaker 01

  Hard disagree. This is hot because, at least to me, charging has gotten way better in the last few years and you need the new charger to take advantage of.

• 59:53David Imel?

  The companies that are shipping like the hundred watt phones give you a hundred watt charger.

• 59:57Speaker 01

  Agree.

• 59:58David Imel?

  They do.

• 59:58Speaker 01

  Well, not even that. The new iPhone, doesn't it have new watts? What is it up to 45 now?

• 1:00:02David Imel?

  Forty five, yeah.

• 1:00:03Speaker 01

  If you have the old charger, what's that? What are you gonna do? That's actually valid. I think the ones that have changed the most in charging still include the charger.

• 1:00:10David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:11Speaker 01

  And the ones that have changed the least in charging are like, eh, you can use your old 6P charger and be fine. Actually, that's that's true.

• 1:00:16David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:17Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:00:17Andrew Manganelli?

  This, I agree. This is one of those ones where like.

• 1:00:20David Imel?

  Hundred percent agree.

• 1:00:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I agree with this. It's one of where a company can make a statement saying this is like for the environment and e-waste, which I agree with. But I also think the alternative motive is it's make it's.

• 1:00:31David Imel?

  Money.

• 1:00:32Andrew Manganelli?

  More money for them. And so like, I want to agree with it without giving them the credit of thinking this is some.

• 1:00:38David Imel?

  Spinning it.

• 1:00:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, like some gift to us. I.

• 1:00:42David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:42Andrew Manganelli?

  I think every new phone should not come with the charger, but should have a redeemable code. So if you really need the charger and if you need it enough, you'll go out of your way to order it or go to a store and get it, you should be able to get it for free. And then that eliminates all of this debate of.

• 1:00:59David Imel?

  If I ran a phone company, that's what I would do. You know, Apple would say, they'd say, we'd have to ship the charger in a box to you. And you know how much waste that causes? You know how much pollution that creates?

• 1:01:10Speaker 01

  But it's for those who need it, you know? Tim Cook? I know you're trying to optimize your your pallet sizes by shrinking the size of the phone box, but like, only 5% of people are gonna order that charger. It's gonna be great.

• 1:01:21David Imel?

  I love that with the new Apple Watch. They were like, we can add 50% more Apple Watches per shipment. And it's like, so you're saying that's for the environment, but you're just saying we can sell more app, we can save more money.

• 1:01:33Speaker 02

  I think it's kind of interesting that when you buy music gear or a lot of audio gear, it, they never come with any, like, obviously they'll come with power cables, but there's no.

• 1:01:43Speaker 01

  If it has like USB C power.

• 1:01:45Speaker 02

  Yeah, no, no, no, not even like, like if you buy like an audio interface, it won't come with mic cables. Or if you buy a microphone, it'll never come with a mic cable. You know, I mean, you're like, that's you're like, expected to buy that stuff inside. And the reason I say that is because I was thinking about the most mad I've ever gotten unboxing a tech product. And it was when I spent over a thousand dollars on my Blackmagic Ultra Studio 4K. And it didn't come with a Thunderbolt cable.

• 1:02:08Speaker 01

  I recently did that.

• 1:02:09Speaker 02

  Holy, oh, you bought a Blackmagic Ultra Studio 4K?

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  So similarly, I was having issues with my Apollo Twin with the old Thunderbolt 2 at home. And I finally upgraded and I spent $900 on an Apollo Twin with the new Thunderbolt. And I opened it and there was no Thunderbolt cable in it. And I was like, thank God I have a Thunderbolt cable right now.

• 1:02:31David Imel?

  And Thunderbolt cables are expensive.

• 1:02:33Speaker 01

  It made me so mad.

• 1:02:34Speaker 02

  Dude, I say, yeah, but then it's funny. It's like, I've never bought a mic and been like, why no XLR cable? And frankly, I wouldn't trust a included XLR cable.

• 1:02:42Speaker 01

  I feel, I think that's exactly where the distinction is though, because there are certain products that are expected to work out of the box. And there are certain products where everyone buying them is expected to customize it to their liking in some way. And you let them, like a microphone. If you're buying a nice expensive XLR microphone, that's the exact type of person who knows which USB, which XLR cable, which preamp.

• 1:03:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, they have their brands they like.

• 1:03:08Speaker 01

  Or in length, like if I get an SM7B and it comes with a three foot cable, it's like, there's a 90% chance that cable is now wasted.

• 1:03:16David Imel?

  Did the Game Boy Color come with double A batteries?

• 1:03:18Speaker 02

  Because since XLR cables have a jack and pin or a pin and hole different, like you can daisy chain them together. So.

• 1:03:29Speaker 01

  Would you, is that what you would do if you then needed to buy a longer cable afterwards? Cause like.

• 1:03:33Speaker 02

  We have daisy chain cables in here.

• 1:03:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, but.

• 1:03:37Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure. And if you're getting mad at me about grounding or whatever, then you know, you know, the email.

• 1:03:43David Imel?

  You're too smart for this question. Did the Game Boy Color come with, come with batteries, like double A batteries? Or is it, because a lot of products that you buy that take batteries, which is not that many, because most of them are rechargeable now. Come with like generic, you know, Amazon brand or whatever.

• 1:04:00Speaker 01

  That's fine though, because that's expected to work out of the box.

• 1:04:03David Imel?

  Well, if it didn't come with batteries, though, in like 1995.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  Then that would be bad.

• 1:04:08David Imel?

  I agree that people shouldn't be upset about not getting a charger.

• 1:04:11Speaker 02

  But I do think if you're buying a peripheral, a thousand dollar plus peripheral, and it doesn't come with a thunderbolt cable.

• 1:04:17David Imel?

  Yeah, that's different.

• 1:04:17Speaker 02

  That's, that's.

• 1:04:18David Imel?

  We all have a million chargers, but we don't all have a million thunderbolt cables.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  Fair enough, so.

• 1:04:24Andrew Manganelli?

  Still be mad, but still be mad at all the companies for pretending.

• 1:04:27Speaker 03

  My mom has one charger. Jess, my fiance, has one charger.

• 1:04:31Andrew Manganelli?

  How?

• 1:04:32Speaker 03

  We have 600. Regular people do not just have chargers lying around. Like, they take them with them from place to place.

• 1:04:38Andrew Manganelli?

  But regular people in the US, generally because of how carrier systems work, upgrade their phone every two years. So in the lifecycle, even in an Apple lifecycle right now, most people have a USB-C charger already.

• 1:04:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:54Andrew Manganelli?

  So like you, I, I would argue, regular people have a USB-C cable.

• 1:04:59Speaker 02

  Also, one counterpoint.

• 1:05:00Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, and that's all you need.

• 1:05:02Speaker 02

  I, I could not find a lightning cable in this office this morning.

• 1:05:05Speaker 01

  That's because I threw them all out.

• 1:05:07Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, why would we need a lightning cable?

• 1:05:09David Imel?

  Lightning cables.

• 1:05:11Andrew Manganelli?

  The track pads.

• 1:05:12Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah, I'll throw those out, too.

• 1:05:15Speaker 02

  Also, also.

• 1:05:18Speaker 01

  That's lightning, oh.

• 1:05:19Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a lightning.

• 1:05:21David Imel?

  All right, I would say that I agree with it. I'm not sure that it's super hot, but I do agree with it.

• 1:05:25Speaker 01

  I think it's fair.

• 1:05:26David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:27Speaker 01

  All right, another take from Ross Han underscore one on threads. We don't need a third camera in phones 90% of the time.

• 1:05:35David Imel?

  Disagree.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  First of all, I think it's cop out to say 90%. I think you gotta own this hot take and be like, we don't need a third camera. But, okay, he says we don't need a third camera 90% of the time. Why do you disagree?

• 1:05:46David Imel?

  Because sometimes I need long, sometimes I need wide, sometimes I need regular.

• 1:05:50Speaker 01

  90% of the time, do you need all three?

• 1:05:52David Imel?

  Yeah, I think so.

• 1:05:54Andrew Manganelli?

  Marcus, commit on your.

• 1:05:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think I agree with this take.

• 1:05:57Speaker 01

  I.

• 1:05:58Speaker 02

  Yeah, Mr. Zoom Lens.

• 1:06:00Speaker 01

  I would say the 90% is pretty accurate. I was, I, I also recently, by the time you watch this, was working on my what's on my phone video. And I'm a two-phone person. On my right pocket, I have my main phone, it's an Android phone. And on my left pocket, I have my secondary phone, it's an iPhone. And for months, I've been trying to make the iPhone air. My secondary phone.

• 1:06:20David Imel?

  Really?

• 1:06:20Speaker 01

  Months I've been trying to do this. And the two things that always hold it back are the camera and the battery. I can overcome the battery because I'm maining the other phone. I can't overcome the lack of an ultra wide and a telephoto. I just can't. It's impossible. And the OnePlus 15 I'm maining also has a pretty bad camera. So I'm just without good cameras and it's just too much for me.

• 1:06:43David Imel?

  You're apparently not alone because the reason that they are shifting production away from the iPhone Air is because the lack of the second camera is making people not want to buy it.

• 1:06:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:06:51David Imel?

  I think more than the battery.

• 1:06:52Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, I thought you got nine cameras with the iPhone Air.

• 1:06:57Speaker 01

  You've got the equivalent of 27 focal length cameras.

• 1:06:59Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll anecdotally fight back.

• 1:07:03Andrew Manganelli?

  I was so excited that the Pixel 10, right? The base versions have three cameras now. Cause they haven't. Every time I take a zoom or an ultra wide picture, I hate it.

• 1:07:14David Imel?

  Yeah, I mean, it's bad.

• 1:07:15Andrew Manganelli?

  It's just so bad.

• 1:07:17Speaker 01

  But if you didn't have those cameras, wouldn't you be more mad?

• 1:07:21Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I would be upset that I don't have them because I wouldn't be able to take the picture and then realize I'm never going to use that for anything or really look at it.

• 1:07:28Speaker 01

  Like every time you zoom and it's like dang, this is not that good of a zoom photo. If you didn't have that zoom camera and you zoomed, it would be an even worse zoom photo and you'd be more mad.

• 1:07:37Andrew Manganelli?

  Unless you give me a good zoom lens because you got rid of the third lens.

• 1:07:41Speaker 01

  So you just want two.

• 1:07:42Andrew Manganelli?

  Just give me two.

• 1:07:43Speaker 01

  No, I don't need three.

• 1:07:44Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah, I'll, I'll.

• 1:07:45Speaker 01

  Two zooms, you're saying?

• 1:07:46Andrew Manganelli?

  An ultra wide is just for fun.

• 1:07:48Speaker 01

  You know what's funny? There's like a generation where I think that totally changed. I saw a, I think it was an Instagram reel, but it was probably TikTok where there's a kid holding his phone. And then there's a photographer who's doing like this really high end sports photography.

• 1:08:00David Imel?

  I saw that too.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  And the kid goes, yo, switch it to point five X. And the guy goes seventy to 200 and he's like, no, I can't. What are you talking about? And he's like, man, there's no point five. This thing sucks. And he's like, this is, I can't, I can't talk to you.

• 1:08:12David Imel?

  I mean, if he was at 140 mil and he could just switch it back to seventy and say it was point five.

• 1:08:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:20Andrew Manganelli?

  I like the ultra wide. It is a fun lens, but as far as like the one that I need every day, I need a regular lens just to like quick, take a, take a picture and then I need a good zoom lens so you can see things from far away, even if it's not a good picture, just like for memory, yeah, as a tool, like I need the lens.

• 1:08:36David Imel?

  In my opinion, the point five X is the wor, the most pointless camera.

• 1:08:41Speaker 01

  I have two very, I have two specific thoughts. I think anytime I'm trying to take a good photo, I definitely get them out of the zoom way more than the ultra wide. But anytime I'm trying to like functionally like take an ultra wide because I need it for this photo, it's never about the quality of the photo, but I, that's when I need an ultra wide. I can't fake an ultra wide like I can with a zoom.

• 1:09:04David Imel?

  Right.

• 1:09:05Speaker 01

  So, yeah.

• 1:09:06Speaker 02

  Also, the ultra wide is objectively hilarious on the iPhone.

• 1:09:09David Imel?

  It is bad.

• 1:09:09Speaker 02

  I want them to make a point two cam. Why stop?

• 1:09:13David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:14Speaker 01

  Even wider.

• 1:09:14David Imel?

  Just put an Insta 360, you know.

• 1:09:16Speaker 01

  360 cam?

• 1:09:17David Imel?

  Yeah, 360 cam.

• 1:09:18Speaker 01

  Yeah. So anyway, all right. I think this is a reasonable take. It's not particularly hot. I think we all kind of agree with it, but if they'd gone all in and said, we don't need three cameras, that would have been pretty spicy.

• 1:09:31David Imel?

  True.

• 1:09:31Speaker 01

  All right. Next take. Dennis on threads says, wireless charging is overrated.

• 1:09:38David Imel?

  You still on that?

• 1:09:39Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't believe this.

• 1:09:40David Imel?

  We still talking about this?

• 1:09:41Speaker 02

  Cause it's right. Cause it's correct.

• 1:09:43David Imel?

  It's not right. Wireless charging is incredible.

• 1:09:45Andrew Manganelli?

  It's awesome. It's overrated is the specific quote. I don't think anyone.

• 1:09:49David Imel?

  Underrated.

• 1:09:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I agree with you.

• 1:09:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:51Speaker 02

  I will defend this take.

• 1:09:52David Imel?

  I love losing heat.

• 1:09:54Andrew Manganelli?

  You'll defend this take?

• 1:09:54Speaker 02

  I recently.

• 1:09:56David Imel?

  I love.

• 1:09:57Andrew Manganelli?

  I love overheat.

• 1:09:58David Imel?

  Spending 45 watts to get 27.

• 1:10:00Speaker 02

  I recently received as part of my employment at this job, a channel, channel sponsor, channel partner Ridge portable battery bank.

• 1:10:09David Imel?

  Pretty incredible.

• 1:10:10Speaker 02

  Because of my phone, never leaves my side. In fact, it is, it is, it is glommed onto the side of my phone like a remora.

• 1:10:20David Imel?

  Nice.

• 1:10:22Speaker 02

  And.

• 1:10:23Andrew Manganelli?

  I just love that your iPhone mini has to live with something twice the size of it all the time.

• 1:10:28Speaker 02

  It literally looks like a barnacle. It's so funny. Um, that being said, now that I'm charging my phone all the time, I have seen how inefficient wireless charging is because I can either choose the.

• 1:10:43Speaker 02

  The wireless charger or the built in lightning cable.

• 1:10:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:10:47Speaker 02

  And I thought I was like, oh yeah, it's just like a little less efficient. No, no, it is like, like I can, I can, it's the difference between, I'm gonna get these numbers wrong, but it feels like the difference between being able to charge my phone twice, like dead to full on the,

• 1:11:03Speaker 02

  the wireless versus like six or seven times with the lightning cable. And I, it's like now it got to the point where I actually feel bad when I charge my phone wirelessly like that. Because I'm like, I'm just, I'm wasting this battery. I'm wasting this lithium. I'm wasting electricity.

• 1:11:19Andrew Manganelli?

  I'll counterpoint two things to that.

• 1:11:22Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 1:11:22Andrew Manganelli?

  One, your phone fucking sucks.

• 1:11:26Andrew Manganelli?

  Like, why are we comparing it to a phone that dies four times in a single day? That of course it's not going to be beneficial for that.

• 1:11:33David Imel?

  Got it.

• 1:11:34Andrew Manganelli?

  Two, I don't think anyone is wireless charging for efficiency. It's, it just becomes the placeholder on a desk or a nightstand. It is a thing to just rest a phone on and happens to be charging.

• 1:11:48David Imel?

  Yes.

• 1:11:48Andrew Manganelli?

  And at any point I can just pick it up or put it down without having to undo a wire that is now hanging on my desk or nightstand, falls underneath the bed, falls behind in all my cables.

• 1:11:58David Imel?

  Like I have one of those mats on my desk at home that has the wireless charger built in. And like while I'm working at my computer, I just have my phone on it and it just happens to be charging it. Otherwise it'd just be sitting there, right? And yes, I could like, I guess, get a cable and do that.

• 1:12:12Andrew Manganelli?

  God forbid. No, this is my thing. This is my other thing that Ellis didn't say, but the most, sorry, I'm amped up about this one. I think it comes from like four trivia extravaganzas ago where it was like, what's, things you need in a phone and wireless charging wasn't on it and I'm still salty about it. But everyone's always like, it just takes one second to plug a phone. It's like, we are in the tech space where literally every single thing we do is to shave milliseconds off of things. I'm sure the person saying you can just plug it in also bought a 5090 so they can play old school RuneScape. Like we are at a level of.

• 1:12:50Speaker 02

  I am also the person that said recently that the best product Apple has released in the last five years is, no, standby mode.

• 1:12:58David Imel?

  Which is part of Maxi.

• 1:12:59Speaker 02

  Which is, yeah, which is a wireless charging feature. So I get that I'm being a little hypocritical here.

• 1:13:04Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean.

• 1:13:05Speaker 02

  But I, I think overrated is acceptable.

• 1:13:09Andrew Manganelli?

  I just don't think that many people rate it.

• 1:13:12Speaker 01

  I think a lot of people underrated. People like to hate on it.

• 1:13:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:13:15Andrew Manganelli?

  I overrate the shit out of it maybe, but.

• 1:13:17David Imel?

  I think people rate it because when a phone comes out that doesn't have wireless charging, it's like a knock on.

• 1:13:22Speaker 01

  That's the main thing. I think I'm hypothesizing that this person who is saying wireless charging is overrated does not have or use wireless charging.

• 1:13:31David Imel?

  I agree.

• 1:13:32Speaker 01

  And I think once you have the convenience of wireless charging and then you get rid of it, then you're like, ah, I actually really like wireless charging. But if you never have wireless charging, you look over at the other side of the fence and you're like, just plug in, bro. It's overrated.

• 1:13:44David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:44Speaker 01

  That's my hypothesis about this.

• 1:13:46David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:46Speaker 01

  Anyway.

• 1:13:47David Imel?

  On my bedside table, I love when I officially stop doom scrolling and go to sleep four hours after I was meant to. I can just like lean over and drop it and then fall asleep instead of like, where's the wire? It's over here.

• 1:14:01Speaker 01

  Well, you need the Magnus to line up.

• 1:14:02David Imel?

  Yeah, but it's MagSafe. So just slap it.

• 1:14:04Andrew Manganelli?

  That's why MagSafe is also because then you never have the.

• 1:14:07David Imel?

  How do they work?

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, takes me away. When I put this phone on the charger, I go.

• 1:14:12Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, that, there is a case, right? That has, uh, chi ready?

• 1:14:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a pain. It's a, it's.

• 1:14:21David Imel?

  And your house shakes a little bit.

• 1:14:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, and then I wake up and it's 50%.

• 1:14:25Andrew Manganelli?

  Dang it.

• 1:14:26Speaker 01

  That is old one.

• 1:14:28David Imel?

  If that was the case, then yeah, maybe it's overrated.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  Fair enough.

• 1:14:31David Imel?

  All right.

• 1:14:32Speaker 01

  All right. This one might age some of us a little bit.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Once Sakradu on threads says, AI is just Silicon Valley's Labubu.

• 1:14:44David Imel?

  I don't even know what that's supposed to mean.

• 1:14:46Speaker 01

  It's a weird new sentence that I keep saying out loud. AI is just Silicon Valley's Labubu.

• 1:14:53David Imel?

  What is?

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  Can someone explain what a Labubu is in like three sentences?

• 1:14:56David Imel?

  It's the ugly little doll.

• 1:14:57Speaker 02

  It's, do you know what Popmart is?

• 1:14:59Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:14:59Speaker 02

  Okay, so Popmart is this company in China that sells toys that are primarily delivered via blind boxes. So you buy a box and you don't know which one it is.

• 1:15:09Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:15:10Speaker 02

  Labubu, and it's, it's very big in China. It's very big all over.

• 1:15:13David Imel?

  Korea, right?

• 1:15:14Speaker 02

  I don't think.

• 1:15:15David Imel?

  I thought it was like more, most popular in Korea.

• 1:15:17Speaker 02

  No, it's definitely most popular in China.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:15:19Speaker 02

  Um, but there is a K-pop group called Blackpink.

• 1:15:25Speaker 02

  They're not, it's their K-pop, right? Yeah.

• 1:15:27Speaker 01

  Demon Hunters.

• 1:15:28Speaker 02

  Called Blackpink. And Lisa, one of the members of that group, I think publicly had a LeBubu, which helped kick off the whole thing. But I'm not an expert in any of this stuff. But yeah, so Popmart is a big Chinese toy company. They sell lots of different lines of toys that are primarily delivered via blind boxes. LeBubus are the ones that have taken off internationally.

• 1:15:48Speaker 03

  Thank you, Ellis, our K-pop correspondent.

• 1:15:50Andrew Manganelli?

  I can't wait for the comment that's like, it's just so painful hearing these guys try and talk about LeBubus.

• 1:15:57David Imel?

  Based on an artist who grew up with Nordic fairy tales and made some fairy tale books that look like LeBubus. That's what they're based on.

• 1:16:06Andrew Manganelli?

  So how does this relate to AI?

• 1:16:07Speaker 01

  I was just gonna say, my only connection that I'm drawing is these are extremely trendy. And maybe AI is extremely trendy.

• 1:16:13Speaker 02

  That is what they're going with. I, I would, I'll do, I'll take it in a different direction. LeBubus primarily come in blind boxes. And a blind box is an experience where you put lots of money into something and then you don't know if it's gonna pay off.

• 1:16:27Speaker 01

  Damn.

• 1:16:28Speaker 02

  And by that logic, I would say, I would say AI is definitely the LeBubu of tech.

• 1:16:34David Imel?

  Everything is gambling.

• 1:16:36Speaker 01

  I have another parallel, that LeBubus to those not in that world, look pretty silly. And I'll be honest, Soda's talking to a chatbot to a lot of people who are not in this world. I, I rest my case.

• 1:16:48David Imel?

  You're absolutely right.

• 1:16:51Speaker 02

  My girlfriend is having trouble doing this like complicated Microsoft Word formatting thing. And I was like, do you want to ask my Claude? And she shot daggers at me.

• 1:17:00David Imel?

  My Claude.

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think this is a wonderful analogy and encapsulation and perhaps not a hot take at all. Perhaps a totally reasonable take.

• 1:17:09Andrew Manganelli?

  All right, I'll do one more. Camera control is actually very useful.

• 1:17:15Speaker 01

  Very useful, you say.

• 1:17:17David Imel?

  It's the most annoying feature Apple has put out in a long time. I use it to open the camera. That is it.

• 1:17:22Andrew Manganelli?

  That makes it useful. That was exactly what I was gonna say.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  You could do, you could long press on your screen.

• 1:17:29Andrew Manganelli?

  You could, but how often do you do that?

• 1:17:31David Imel?

  Well, not now, because I have camera control.

• 1:17:32Andrew Manganelli?

  Exactly.

• 1:17:33Speaker 01

  So you're saying you use it?

• 1:17:35David Imel?

  I mean, sure.

• 1:17:36Speaker 01

  Making it.

• 1:17:36David Imel?

  I would, I would prefer this was a Touch ID.

• 1:17:39Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, hold on, what are?

• 1:17:40David Imel?

  Button.

• 1:17:41Andrew Manganelli?

  Yeah. It would, that'd be a weird place for it. But what are your two long presses on your home screen right now?

• 1:17:45David Imel?

  It's flashlight and Gemini voice mode.

• 1:17:47Speaker 01

  Those are also mine, too.

• 1:17:49Andrew Manganelli?

  So it's not camera anymore?

• 1:17:50David Imel?

  Well, I could get rid of the flashlight. Or I could, or you could do the pixel twist, you know?

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  Camera control also, okay, so you use it to open it, the camera is open. But once you've opened it, do you ever use camera control to like slide tone? All it ever does is interrupt things, yeah.

• 1:18:06David Imel?

  Accidentally, and then I'm like, oh, 2.3x horrible image quality? Yeah, that's what I want.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:11Andrew Manganelli?

  It sounds like if it was just a button, you would be okay with it? Not a, not a capacity.

• 1:18:17David Imel?

  I just want it to be Touch ID, that's all I want it to be.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  I think this person made it a great flaming hot take by calling it camera control, but really all we find useful is the ability to open the camera quickly. Once you open it, the rest of the camera control features are kind of annoying. They're, they're just in the way.

• 1:18:33David Imel?

  I think that a lot of smartphone companies have made like a million ways to open your camera faster.

• 1:18:39Speaker 01

  Well, so for the longest time, you just double press your power button. On like 90, 97% of Android phones, double press power button would open. There used to be-

• 1:18:48David Imel?

  The iPhone has double tap.

• 1:18:49Speaker 01

  The double tap accessibility, is that still a thing?

• 1:18:51David Imel?

  It's still a thing.

• 1:18:52Andrew Manganelli?

  It doesn't work for me, though.

• 1:18:53Speaker 01

  It's kind of finicky, it's kind of finicky. But then, there would be Android phones where they would add a specific camera button. That would also be a shutter button, like Sony phones did this for a little bit. I think an LG phone had a custom, like a G5 or something back in the day. So there would be like a hardware button to open the camera, which is cool if you take a lot of pictures.

• 1:19:12David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  Nowadays, it's like, I kind of still just double tap my power button on most Android phones. And then on the iPhone, the action button came along a few years ago, and that's what I would map it to, open my camera.

• 1:19:25David Imel?

  Oh, yeah, action button. Yeah, what the heck, there's so many buttons. You don't need this button.

• 1:19:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:19:30Andrew Manganelli?

  It's not a button, it's camera control.

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  My action button is one thing, my camera control button is the camera, my two shortcuts on the home screen are two different things, I have my flashlight, so I got all kinds of customization going on. Maybe we're back to the customization.

• 1:19:46Andrew Manganelli?

  As a non iPhone user who's never used camera control, I think we have one piece of evidence. From someone who knows quite a bit about iPhones of how useful camera control is, and that is Apple, because it seems like they have completely forgotten about camera control.

• 1:20:00David Imel?

  Also true.

• 1:20:01Andrew Manganelli?

  They didn't even mention it a single time in the last iPhone announcement, right?

• 1:20:03David Imel?

  It's because they just one shotted it right out the gate.

• 1:20:06Speaker 01

  You know what's the best indicator that it's not very useful? Oppo and the Find X9 Pro.

• 1:20:11David Imel?

  Didn't copy it.

• 1:20:12Speaker 01

  Did a perfect clone of camera control on their phone. And nobody talks about it or cares because nobody uses it. Because it's not that useful.

• 1:20:22David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  Because you can still double tap the camera button or double tap the power button to open the camera.

• 1:20:25Speaker 02

  What would it have to do to become useful? Like, what would make you be like, okay, now this is cool?

• 1:20:30Andrew Manganelli?

  Not be annoying is what it sounds like.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  It would have to have more, uh...

• 1:20:34David Imel?

  Functionality.

• 1:20:35Speaker 01

  Like granular, not granular, I don't know what the word is, but like when I swipe and it goes from 0x to 2.2x or whatever, that's annoying to me. If I could have more fine control over just boop, notch me over to 2x, notch me to 4x. If that worked better.

• 1:20:51David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:51Speaker 01

  I would be happier and probably use it a little bit more.

• 1:20:54David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:20:56Speaker 01

  But I think it's too late to save itself. I think I just use the screen because it's a huge, beautiful screen. Why would I not use the screen?

• 1:21:01David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:02Speaker 01

  Decent take.

• 1:21:03Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, is it?

• 1:21:05Speaker 01

  Well, because...

• 1:21:05Andrew Manganelli?

  Well, it's hot because no one agrees with it.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 1:21:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:08Speaker 01

  It's hot because no one agrees with it, but it's decent because we actually all use it to open the camera. So it's arguably useful. Yeah.

• 1:21:15David Imel?

  Yeah, we just make it a regular button, not a capacitive whatever the heck.

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  That's what we really want.

• 1:21:20David Imel?

  Cool.

• 1:21:21Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:21:21David Imel?

  Well, that was it. Trivia.

• 1:21:25Speaker 01

  Trivia, dude.

• 1:21:27Speaker 02

  I don't want to argue about this, but I saw a really funny hot take on Twitter this weekend. Where people were talking about nuclear energy and how silly it is that nuclear energy is just a new way to boil water. And the hot take was that it's crazy that humanity essentially one shotted the best way to generate electricity in the 1700s. And we've just been figuring out slightly better ways to do it since then. Um, guys, trivia, as I open the trivia document.

• 1:21:52David Imel?

  Seventeen hundreds?

• 1:21:54Speaker 02

  Yeah, the Industrial Revolution.

• 1:21:55David Imel?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:21:56Speaker 02

  The steam engine.

• 1:21:57David Imel?

  The steam engine.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  Dave Newell's been cooking for a long time.

• 1:22:03David Imel?

  True.

• 1:22:03Speaker 02

  No one?

• 1:22:05David Imel?

  No, I got a steam. And he bought the cruise ship, I mean, the yacht company.

• 1:22:12Speaker 02

  Guys, in 1994, if you wanted to go to Comp USA and buy an Apple Performa 630 CD with a 14-inch monitor and an HP HP printer on a Black Friday deal, how much would all that cost? And you have to let me know if you're giving this in $1994 or September 2025.

• 1:22:32David Imel?

  I don't have a pen.

• 1:22:34Speaker 02

  Does anyone know why September 2025 is the last year there's inflation data available?

• 1:22:41David Imel?

  Because they decided to just pretend it doesn't exist.

• 1:22:43Speaker 02

  Pretty, pretty interesting, huh?

• 1:22:45Andrew Manganelli?

  Wait, September 2025?

• 1:22:46Speaker 02

  September 2025, right before October 2025.

• 1:22:51Andrew Manganelli?

  I just assumed the website's not updated well enough.

• 1:22:54David Imel?

  Oh, because the government shut down.

• 1:22:55Andrew Manganelli?

  But probably because.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  Is that why? I was trying to be cheeky and infer.

• 1:22:59David Imel?

  Wow.

• 1:23:01Speaker 02

  Read them.

• 1:23:04Speaker 02

  Uh, wait, I never said, I guess we're doing Delta because I never said prices right rules. Did anyone think we were doing prices right rules just in the interest of fairness?

• 1:23:11Andrew Manganelli?

  I think I, even when we're doing prices right, I go Delta anyways because I want to beat that on.

• 1:23:16Speaker 02

  We're, we're doing Delta. It's going to be slightly complicated math, but someone read me an answer.

• 1:23:20David Imel?

  I wrote 25, 25, $20, $25 September.

• 1:23:25Speaker 02

  And you wrote 3,000. Okay, cool.

• 1:23:28Andrew Manganelli?

  In 1994, $700.

• 1:23:32David Imel?

  And I put in 1994, $294.

• 1:23:37Speaker 02

  And the winner is?

• 1:23:40Speaker 02

  Andrew Manganelle by about $100 off from David. It was $2,000 in 1994, so you were 1,300 off.

• 1:23:49Andrew Manganelli?

  Oh.

• 1:23:50Speaker 02

  And it was, wait, it was 30, oh, excuse me, $4,340 in today money.

• 1:23:57David Imel?

  So close.

• 1:23:58Speaker 02

  Which was 1,430 off for you. So yeah, you beat David.

• 1:24:02Andrew Manganelli?

  What's the inflation on the Delta?

• 1:24:03David Imel?

  Yeah, that's.

• 1:24:05Andrew Manganelli?

  I mean, you shouldn't have to do that. I should get the point, but.

• 1:24:08David Imel?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:08Andrew Manganelli?

  The smarter move was to guess the 1994 price because the money's smaller, smaller Delta away from it.

• 1:24:14David Imel?

  That's where my head was at.

• 1:24:16Speaker 02

  Good strat, good strat. Quick update underscore, Mark has with 10. Andrew with 12 after that correct point.

• 1:24:24David Imel?

  Nice.

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  David with nine.

• 1:24:26Speaker 03

  From catching up. I know. Embarrassing if I got passed. Ooh, it'd be a shame somewhere to happen to those points. All right. Aluminum, what's the atomic number? Go. Ah. Ah. Just visualize the periodic table. Ah. Where do you think it is? Aluminum. Aluminium. Aluminium.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  The periodic table is in alphabetical order, right?

• 1:24:46Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's why it's periodic.

• 1:24:50Speaker 03

  Do you guys want to hear a fun waveform fact? Sure.

• 1:24:53Speaker 01

  Is this closest delta?

• 1:24:54Speaker 03

  Is this closest? Sure, yeah. What? Yeah. Did you know that the waveform podcast has point eight mics per host? Right.

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 1:25:03Speaker 03

  That's pretty fun.

• 1:25:04Speaker 01

  That is pretty fun.

• 1:25:05Speaker 03

  All right, Flip and Man Reed, what do we got?

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  We're all exactly even for each other. My goal is to not name a number that's not on the periodic table.

• 1:25:16Speaker 03

  So we are actually periodic.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:19Speaker 03

  Because I put 12. Okay. And I put 16. Uh huh.

• 1:25:24Speaker 01

  Mine's not periodic?

• 1:25:25Speaker 03

  No, we are. What's your number? Because we're periodic with a delta of four between us.

• 1:25:29Speaker 01

  20.

• 1:25:30Speaker 03

  20? The correct answer is 13. So the closest is David. David gets the point.

• 1:25:37Speaker 01

  I'm now getting past.

• 1:25:40Speaker 03

  What is 12 to be? Magnesium. Is 12?

• 1:25:43Speaker 01

  Well, anyway, that's been it for this week and all of our hot takes and airdropping various files between Android phones and Macs and iPhones. It's been a really good time. Let us know what you think in the comments, but of course, make sure you're one of the people who subscribe before we get to 500,000. It's very important that you do this because once you get to 500,000, the door shuts. No more subscribers is what I heard, so make sure you get in now. And I believe it's free as of Black Friday, so appreciate you. Thanks for watching. Catch you guys the next one. Peace.

• 1:26:11Speaker 03

  Happy Thanksgiving. Oh, that happened already. It already happened. If you're in America.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Leave it in.

• 1:26:18Speaker 03

  Waveform is produced by Adam Alina and Ellis Rovin. We're partnered with Vox Media Podcast Network and our show music is created by Vansil.

• 1:26:23Speaker 01

  Bingo.

• 1:26:32Speaker 02

  If you don't like and subscribe, I'll never get back to the producer's table.

• 1:26:35Speaker 06

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