What Comes After the Podcast Election, Scott’s Advice to Federal Employees, and an Update on Scott's Company, Section

Scott discusses the evolving role of podcasts in political influence and campaign spending. He then offers advice to a federal worker worried about DOGE cuts, and wraps up with an update on his company, Section. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Scott Galloway?

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• 0:48Speaker 01

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• 1:19Speaker 02

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• 1:48Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to Office Hours with Prof G. This is the part of the show where we answer questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. Question number one.

• 2:07Speaker 03

  Hi Prof G, this is Jake from Washington DC. I'm a big fan of all your podcasts. I think when it comes to marketing and building businesses, you're spot on. I also think you've come up with some fantastic policy ideas that make sense, and I hope more moderate members of Congress reach out to you. I've been thinking about your post-election analysis, where you discuss podcasts becoming the dominant campaign medium in the next election, potentially replacing traditional door-to-door outreach. This brings me to my question. How do you envision monetizing, the monetization of political campaigns on podcasts evolving? Are we going to be listening to you read, "This ad was paid for by friends of candidate X, as is required for all political ads"?

• 2:48Speaker 03

  I'm curious to hear your thoughts on how you think this emerging campaign medium will develop, and how would you maintain your authenticity and credibility with your audience? Look forward to hearing from you, and keep up the great work.

• 3:01Scott Galloway?

  Thanks for the thoughtful question Jake from DC. The 2024 cycle was the most expensive election in American history, with political ad spending totaling over $11 billion. However, it wasn't, you know, all disco for broadcasters. This was the first election where their share of total spending fell below 50%. Since the 2020 election, ad spending increased about, I don't know, increased over $2 billion, but traditional broadcasters only saw 100 million of this growth. First off, I think it was Hearst or one of the big family of media companies was really smart about 20 years ago. They went and bought all these local TV stations in swing states, thinking, "Okay, these are shitty businesses for about 20 months, every two years, and then for four months, they're amazing businesses because they can topple their ad rates, and campaigns which think, okay, old people vote. What do old people do?

• 3:46Scott Galloway?

  They want to watch the weather and see that handsome, handsome young thing talking about the news, and they turn on their local news. And they can trap old people, and they can run ads basically saying that, you know, "The other guy is a pedophile, and she's addicted to diet pills, and you should vote for our guy." It's really weird. Human condition, it's much easier for us to believe something negative about someone than something positive. So as Newt Gingrich convinced his party 20 odd years ago, "Go negative, go early." Anyways, they bought these stations and they've been the gift that keeps on giving. They were able to scoop them up fairly inexpensively and they're just cash machines. I think that is about to come to an end for two reasons. First reason, Joe, second Rogan, and that is when Trump went on Rogan,

• 4:26Scott Galloway?

  he got about 15 million downloads on audio and about 40, 45 million views on YouTube. So call it 60 million. For Vice President Harris, who by the way, totally fucked up and should have gotten on a plane. Joe Rogan is now more important than her or was at that point. On to Austin and done an interview. I think Joe actually would have been kind to her. He's not about calling people out. He's pretty good that way. Yeah, as a matter of fact, he doesn't call people out enough. Oh, mRNA vaccines alter DNA. Really, really? Oh, okay. You're not a fucking quack spreading misinformation that result in unnecessary death, disease and disability? Really? Oh, that makes sense. No, it doesn't. Anyway, she should have done it, but for her to reach the same number of people,

• 5:08Scott Galloway?

  she would have had to go on CNN, MSNBC and Fox every night for three hours for an entire week. As a matter of fact, a woman I really respect a lot, who has a, I believe it's a Sunday morning show on CNN, asked me to come on every week and do this thing like what's on your mind? Where I talk for six to 10 minutes? And I said, I've done the math. No one 25 to 54 is watching CNN. And for me to do the work I would need to do because I like you and I think you're smart. It's just not worth, the juice isn't worth the squeeze. And I would have killed to go on Anderson Cooper or Michael Smirconish or Stephanie Ruhl. By the way, all three friends, all wonderful people. Or any of these guys. I occasionally go on Chris Cuomo because I like, I only go on with my friends.

• 5:53Scott Galloway?

  So I know I'm name dropping right now, but it's just not worth it. The people I'm trying to raise, I'm trying to reach a young man. I'm trying to reach young people that want to develop economic security. And guess what? They're not walking, they're not watching fucking CNN. Get this, the average age, the average person watching MSNBC is a 70 year old white woman.

• 6:12Scott Galloway?

  Oh, but it makes sense for politicians to go there. What do you think a seven year old white woman hasn't made up her mind around who she's voting for? Having said that, podcast, 34 year old male, 34 year old males, what do they vote on? They don't vote on issues or values. They vote on economics. They're at a point in their life where they're trying to build economic security and the economic issue is more dynamic. What do I mean by that? Every two or four years, it's not entirely clear which party will become the party of economic growth or become more favorable in the eyes of voters around economics. Traditionally, Republicans are the business people, low taxes, but people are starting to pay attention that under Democratic administrations, the last 50 years, there's been 50 million jobs created. Under Republican administrations, there's been 1 million jobs. The markets tend to go up more during Democratic tenure.

• 6:56Scott Galloway?

  So people are kind of saying, okay, whoever can sell me is going to get my vote at the age of 34 if they're a male, whereas a seven year old woman, so where is everyone going to go? I think to podcast. Now, having said that, your notion is how do they monetize it or how do we monetize it? I don't see why it would be any more difficult to run a 30 second ad saying, he fucking sucks. And then having the candidate go, I approve this ad. I think you're going to start to see political ads. The reason I know that this fear of influence is massively shifting, and I'm not exaggerating here, I bet 50% of the candidates, mostly Democrat, but also Republicans, I'm seen as somewhat moderate, have reached out to me for quote unquote, advice. When people reach out to me for advice, it's not because they care about what I think.

• 7:39Scott Galloway?

  It means they want help finding a job, they want money for their campaign, or they want to come on the podcast. And I think that there's probably 100 senators and congresspeople and governors who look in the mirror every morning and say the following, hello, Mr. President, or hello, Madam President. And I've heard from most of them and they claim they really are interested in my advice. And they say, hey, wouldn't it be a great idea for me to come on the pod and talk about it? What's interesting is the political candidates don't do well on podcasts. People would much rather hear from I don't know, Kim Kardashian, or a guy like Fareed Zakaria gets unbelievable downloads. He does so well. Anthony Scaramucci does incredibly well. He's not a political candidate,

• 8:21Scott Galloway?

  but he's a political commentator. Ian Bremmer, these geopoliticians, Josh Brown on the markets, Aswad Demotar and Kada Scanlon, a young person on the... These people get huge downloads. Mel Robbins, I had her on. People love talking about emotions and raising their kids. When I bring senators or congresspeople on, people just don't care. It's really interesting, but I am committed to bringing more and more politicians on, specifically moderates on the left and on the right, although I'm having trouble finding moderates on the right. I'm a moderate, but that wasn't a Nazi salute. Yeah, okay. Okay. What are your pronouns? He and Himmler? Anyway, it's, I do think that if you get attention, you can monetize it. And if you have attention

• 9:05Scott Galloway?

  and influence, which podcasts will have, they're going to be able to grab a disproportionate amount of that, what it'll probably be 15 or 20 billion going into the next election. So, if you have influence and attention, you'll figure out a way to monetize it, whether it's ads, sponsored events, I don't know, what have you. But we're going to see, I think we're going to see for the first time, these local news stations start to feel some of the same pressure that every other media company has felt. And then we're going to see a massive transfer of influence, attention, and monetization to podcasts. In terms of conflict of interest, I read ads. I don't do crypto ads anymore because I worry it's gambling and I worry there's too many young men staring at their phone, losing money or making money

• 9:46Scott Galloway?

  on crypto. But I have no problem advocating for products. And if it's a conflict, if I'm talking about a company, I'm an investor and I try to be transparent. I'm here because I enjoy this, but I am a close second here because I want to make money. And I don't think people mind that. So what I think they mind is when they feel like you're abusing their trust and not being upfront about your intentions or your investments. So as long as you're transparent, I think that's fine. But coming your way, I'm Joe Bob and I approve this ad. Thanks for the question. Question number two.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  Hey Prof G, love your show. Question for you. What advice do you have for federal workers considering leaving public service? As you know, the DOGE efforts are cruel and chaotic. They've created a stressful work environment that leaves me full of anxiety. Wondering if I'll be the next lose my job. I joined the federal workforce as a military spouse five years ago. Prior to that, I spent my career in the private sector. Despite high evaluations, leadership programs and a graduate degree, I'm still concerned I could lose my job. I live in Virginia with a high concentration of federal workers. Should I jump ship before the job market is oversaturated? Should I stay put? Am I overthinking this?

• 11:04Speaker 04

  I'd love to hear your thoughts.

• 11:07Scott Galloway?

  Anonymous for Virginia, the first is I'm really sorry you're being, you're stressed out. It's sort of the unknown sometimes is more stressful than the actual known. And that is a means of, I think, trying to assuage your stress. And there's the basics, spending time with loved ones, working out, meditation, breath work. I tried breath work. I tried this straw method from this guy named Dan Reeves, who I love, who's fantastic. This very soulful guy who does this 10% happier podcast. Here's the straw method. Breathe in. Two seconds and breathe out. Four seconds, okay. That shit does not work for me. It does not work for me. The breath work does not work.

• 11:50Scott Galloway?

  I understand that you're stressed out, but anytime there's, there's change or chaos, there is this overlining and that is sometimes there's opportunity where you don't see it. What do I mean by that? What is happening at the federal government level right now? I'm of two minds about it. The first is to be blunt and coarse, welcome to the work week. The idea that you get a random email from someone who might be laid off and have insecurity and anxiety, people feel that across every business sector in America, in America. At the same time, the injustice I get, but there's tons of injustice in the private sector. The thing that I find most troubling about it is not what people, most media is reporting on, it's the incompetence. It's laying off workers who oversee our nuclear stockpile and then rehiring them, thinking,

• 12:35Scott Galloway?

  oh, maybe we should, in fact, look after this shit such that it doesn't, you know, such that we can ensure that nobody, the babies don't start playing with it before it becomes less radioactive in 60,000 odd years. The way they're going about it, it just feels stupid and ineffective to me. And also the corruption, firing people that happen to be investigating Musk's business dealings, and also just the general incompetence. Oh, we saved $8 billion. Well, actually, it's 8 million that you saved. Oh, we saving a million and a half dollars here. No, you're not. They already spent the million and a half. There's no way to get it back. So I find the whole Keystone Cops fucking incompetence, it doesn't reflect the general competence you find across most government agencies.

• 13:19Scott Galloway?

  I think I'm sort of of that attitude of let them. I think it's just so weird that the genius of the Republican Party is its ability to convince people who are going to get hurt the most that this is a good idea for them. In general, the reddest districts are the ones that are the biggest takers. The Department of Education sends the most money per capita to these deep red states in the South. Okay, you want to eliminate the Department of Education? Fine. You want to eliminate Medicare or take money out of Medicare? Where six in 10 kids in poor households in red states get the medical treatment they need? Okay, have at it. Let them. You're about to see just how incompetent you think government really is.

• 14:04Scott Galloway?

  And when these cuts come home to you. So I'm sort of of the attitude of, okay, you wanted it, you broke it, you own it. Now, coming back to your specific situation. One, until you actually get laid off, unless, it's never a bad idea to do a market check, see what's out there, start investigating, start having coffees. Do interviews if you have ideas on who you want to speak to. I don't think that's a bad idea in any situation to be kind of on a regular basis doing a market check. Having said that, I would not jump, I would certainly not quit until you have another job. And also, a couple of things can happen. One, if you do get laid off, you'll probably get some sort of severance. And two, when there's change, say they lay

• 14:47Scott Galloway?

  off 10 or 20% of the people at your organization, they're pretty soon going to realize they need people to actually run the fucking organization. And the top of the pyramid will, quite frankly, get broader. And that is, you might find that you're in a position to be promoted sooner than you thought because there's fewer people around. I've always told people when there's a transaction in the private sector, when their company gets acquired, or there's layoffs, stick around because churn and chaos results in a lot of anxiety, oftentimes a lot of negative things, but oftentimes a lot of opportunity because the company's being reconfigured and you might wake up with a bigger and a better job. So in sum, find things and people that help manage your anxiety. Two, it's never

• 15:29Scott Galloway?

  a bad idea to do a bit of a market check and talk to people. And three, think to yourself, what could go right? Right? We're always about what could go wrong. Well, what could go right? Maybe the organization, maybe people get laid off, maybe you're good at what you do, and maybe it ends up creating more avenues or arteries of opportunity for you. Appreciate the question, anonymous from Virginia. We have one quick break before our final question. Stay with us.

• 15:59Scott Galloway?

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• 16:41Scott Galloway?

  chat is available on the side of your browser and it's always ready. No new tabs, no switching apps, no losing your place. This is AI that works with you, not on top of you, so that you have the time and brain space to solve the problems that matter. Check it out. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 17:02Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Upwork. Trying to scale your business? At some point, you're probably going to hit a point where you need some help. Sometimes, the best way to break through that is bringing in the right talent at the right time. Upwork can help. Upwork is a one-stop platform where you can find, hire, and pay expert freelancers across more than 125 categories. Whether you need specialized skills for a single project or extra support to keep up with demand, it's easy to connect with experienced professionals, review their work, and find the right fit. You can move faster without taking on the commitment of full-time hires. And for businesses that need the very best talent, Upwork Business Plus provides access to the top 1% of freelancers on the platform. AI-powered matching connects you with qualified candidates in under six hours, cutting down the time spent searching. Upwork also takes care of contracts, payments,

• 17:47Scott Galloway?

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• 18:13Scott Galloway?

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• 18:58Scott Galloway?

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• 19:12Scott Galloway?

  For $1,000 off.

• 19:21Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Question number three.

• 19:23Speaker 05

  Hey, Prof G. This is John Ward from Los Angeles. I took a marketing class from your company, Section, a couple of years ago, and it was called Section Four, and really enjoyed it. Can you give us an update on the company? Has it gone as expected? What's working? What's not? Have you taken more money? Just really interested in that as an entrepreneurial journey and what's going on with that company. Thanks so much.

• 19:47Scott Galloway?

  John from LA, thanks for the kind words. I pride myself on being transparent. Everybody talks about their wins and people don't want to talk about their failures. Section is still got a question mark around it. And that is, the initial vision was find, build this all-star team of the best professors at business schools and offer 80% of an amazing class. At every business school, there's five or six ringers that everybody has to take regardless of what they're teaching because they're so good. My thought was I'm going to aggregate all these ringers from the top 20 schools, put them online, really highly invest in marketing and graphics and production quality and give you 80% of the valuation class from Demotaran or from Adam Alter's marketing class or, God,

• 20:30Scott Galloway?

  I forget his name, this wonderful guy from Kellogg, Sarah Beckman from the Ha School, and give you 80% of her course for $1,000 instead of $7,000, which is what it costs to take these courses at a private university. I'm not sure if that's true at the Ha School. Anyways, in sum, it wasn't working. We were spending a lot more money and without the certification you get from an MBA, we had trouble charging even $1,000. We got this incredible sugar high of COVID, and that is, I put in, I raised a seed round of $7 million. I put in, I think, $2 million of my own money, maybe $3. And it just took off during COVID because everyone had a lot of time. And I knew that we were in a sugar high, but I didn't realize we were in like a speedball meth cocaine high.

• 21:14Scott Galloway?

  And the company went from like one to 10 million overnight. I went out and I raised another $30 million. That was a mistake. I should have kept it small. I should have been more judicious with the capital because once we had $30 million, we brought in a management team and they started spending money like fucking drunk sailors on shit that didn't work. We hired Malcolm Gladwell to speak to our audience for a hundred grand or Adam Grant, who I love and think is great. We paid him a hundred grand. They're not worth that much money to speak to a bunch of prospective students as good as they are. So we were just wasting money. We went from 20 employees to 120. And here's the mistake I made that I continue to make in the private markets. And that is once I have access to capital, I try and grow too fast. I spend way too much fucking money, hire mediocre people and then end up having to lay off 60 or 80% of them.

• 22:00Scott Galloway?

  And that is what happened here. As soon as we came out of COVID, revenues crashed. Our burn was unsustainable and we had to lay off 60, 70% of the staff. Now the company is about 25 or 30 people. We have pivoted to AI. What do I mean by that? We found a lot of people and companies coming to us and say, could you upskill our media department at L'Oréal on how to use different AI tools to make our department much more robust? Give us this great, L'Oréal's always had amazing media buying. That's kind of, I would argue their core competence is they're just fantastic media buyers. They said, how do we take the most cutting edge tools and turn every media planner, every media buyer into a warrior and make them just much better at what they do?

• 22:44Scott Galloway?

  So we have pivoted section to basically AI upskilling for the enterprise. And this is more my bailiwick. I've always done B to B businesses. I've never done B to C. I like B2B more. It's based on individual relationships. Corporations, if you can move the value or move the shareholder needle for them are much less price sensitive than consumers. I've just always been in B2B businesses. Anyways, we pivoted. I have really wonderful investors. General Catalyst is my lead and they've been incredibly supportive and nice and smart. And I have a good CEO, Greg Shove, running the business now. We have some very talented people in the organization and it is starting to grow again. And we are now, I think, almost two-thirds subscription

• 23:26Scott Galloway?

  revenue, back towards a $10 million run rate and working with very large corporations, helping them, again, upskill certain departments within their organization around how to leverage these new AI tools. So I'm hopeful, but the last five years have been really mediocre. I have wasted a ton of time and money. Is that fair? Not wasted. Have not gotten the return I was originally hoping for. I would bet, if I had to bet what's going to happen, there's an outside shot, it does really well. I think there's a good shot. We're going to get our money back. Keep in mind, we've raised $38 million, so I need to get my investors $38 million back before we start really showing any return. I'm fairly confident, is that right? I think I'm fairly confident that'll happen. And we seem to finally have

• 24:09Scott Galloway?

  found our footing. Having said that, this is kind of the story of my life in most of these companies. I've had a couple of companies where it's just been up and to the right. But usually I start something, it does okay, then it doesn't do okay. And the key is agility and kind of zero in on something that works. And I think we have finally done that after five years and spending 25 or 30 million dollars. I think we finally zeroed in on something. They're signing up corporations and it's doing, it's actually doing quite well and growing again. But this is, you know, this shit is hard. This is a, this is chess, not checkers. But it's finally, it seems to be kind of on its, found its

• 24:48Scott Galloway?

  footing again and doing really well. But again, one out of seven companies succeeds. I've started nine. I've had two do really well. I've had two or three just do okay. And I've had four just like flaming balls of shit hit a giant wall and spray and everyone gets their face burned off. That was a little graphic. That was a little graphic. Anyways, thanks for the question. I hope that satisfies your need to understand what is happening at Section, and it's now called Section AI.

• 25:20Scott Galloway?

  That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected].

• 25:36Scott Galloway?

  This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez. Our intern is Dan Shalon. Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from the Vox Media Podcast Network. We will catch you on Saturday for No Mercy, No Malice, as read by George Hahn. And please follow our Prop G Markets pod wherever you get your pods for new episodes every Monday and Thursday.

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