Ep. 920: News from the Fish Shack - Cornell Bans Butchering, The Alaska Fishing Report, and America’s Youth Speak Out

Steven Rinella and the MeatEater Crew discuss: Saving ducks from botulism; Alaska fishing conditions; why kids these days are so screwed up; and more! Presented by Can-Am: maker of the best ATVs, SxS, and Utility Vehicles www.can-am.brp.com http://www.can-am.brp.com Connect with Steve https://www.themeateater.com/authors/steven-rinella and The MeatEater Podcast Network https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork Steve on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stevenrinella and Twitter https://twitter.com/stevenrinella?lang=en MeatEater on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/meateater, Facebook https://www.facebook.com/StevenRinellaMeatEater/, Twitter https://twitter.com/MeatEaterTV?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor, and YouTube https://www.youtube.com/@MeatEaterPodcastNetwork See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.

• 0:04Speaker 01

  This is the story of the one. As a shipping manager, he's running the dock, stocking supplies, and making sure every order goes out on time. And Granger helps him stay prepared. From shipping supplies to PPE to hand tools, he counts on Granger to keep products moving and trucks rolling. So his operation runs smoothly, no matter the shift. Call 1-800-GRANGER, click Granger.com, or just stop by. Granger, for the ones who get it done.

• 0:35Speaker 02

  Hey, I'm Niall Rogers. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, meeting some of today's coolest and most fascinating artists. We'll explore the stories before the moments that changed everything. Because every musician remembers the moment where it all began. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln original series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:07Speaker 03

  911, what's your emergency?

• 1:10Speaker 04

  Please help us. They're everywhere.

• 1:13Speaker 03

  We think they're murder hornets.

• 1:15Speaker 02

  911 Nashville returns.

• 1:17Speaker 05

  What's a homicide detective doing here? Three bodies on the ground.

• 1:20Speaker 02

  With emergencies of biblical proportions. Hell, since swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 1:26Speaker 05

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 1:27Speaker 02

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Ryan Phillippe, 911 Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 1:41Steven Rinella?

  Welcome to the news show, everybody. This is a field report. This is a special edition of the news show. We're reporting from the field. What is it called in the news? Like where the guy is out in the field?

• 1:51Speaker 07

  Oh, in the field correspondent. In the field.

• 1:54Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Like a court, like if there's a picture that it's like a hurricane and I'm the guy out being like, it's getting very windy.

• 2:00Speaker 07

  Yeah, Johnny on the spot.

• 2:02Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 2:02Speaker 07

  Field correspondent.

• 2:03Steven Rinella?

  I'm like, we're like that guy. We're sitting on Seth's A-frame porch on, in southeast, on an island in southeast Alaska. Seth was a great neighbor to a point. And we're over at his place. He built his outdoor shower so that my place where I go to take a whiz,

• 2:23Steven Rinella?

  off my, out my area, my ledge, now when I take a whiz, I have to look at Seth's, his, some of his garbage, and his outdoor shower. Yeah. I'm gonna put an outdoor shower where he has to look at my outdoor shower.

• 2:37Speaker 07

  You guys can wave to each other.

• 2:40Steven Rinella?

  Well, yeah.

• 2:42Speaker 07

  Is it, is it, has it been a problem?

• 2:45Steven Rinella?

  No, but I keep expecting it to be.

• 2:49Speaker 07

  Do you think that we're just gonna see you taking a leak? Is that, is that?

• 2:53Steven Rinella?

  Then I'm gonna be out there, you know, shaking her off or something, and I'm gonna look over and there you're gonna be staring at me.

• 3:00Speaker 07

  Scrubbing his arse.

• 3:01Steven Rinella?

  Scrubbing your pits. And just, I don't know.

• 3:04Speaker 07

  Well, here's the thing. We shower once it's dark, for the most part.

• 3:09Steven Rinella?

  Oh, you do?

• 3:10Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 3:10Steven Rinella?

  That's when I like.

• 3:11Speaker 07

  We haven't, we haven't, I don't think we've done a, a daytime shower yet.

• 3:15Steven Rinella?

  So this show is gonna, this news show is gonna be a little bit different. We are gonna have, we have some news coming in the end. There's some, there's some hot news coming in the end, but we're gonna be heavy on the our news section. Because we're gonna talk about, we're gonna talk about, we're gonna do a field report, reporting from Alaska, where we're fishing. We're gonna be talking to some of tomorrow's anglers, today's youth. They're gonna, they're gonna come do a quick interview. We got three of them lined up, young men. All you people that think that the world's going to hell and the kids these days and all that, all your worst fears will be realized.

• 3:47Steven Rinella?

  When we conduct a series of interviews with like, the worst of the worst. We have, what, 14 and two sixteens?

• 3:56Speaker 07

  Yeah, almost 15.

• 3:58Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, we got like, basically a 15 and two sixteens, they're gonna come on, you're gonna realize that just how bad things are when they come on and share their thoughts. It's worse than you think. And then we're gonna, we're gonna get into some new stuff. We got grizzly bear, we got a kind of an interesting deal with grizzly bears up in Canada. We got an interesting thing about shooting drones with TSS, and our continued reporting on TSS. We got some news from Cornell, my new enemies, Cornell University, used to love them, now they're my enemies.

• 4:30Speaker 07

  Really? Why is that?

• 4:32Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you. And we got a, and then we're gonna go to a pre-recorded interview with someone from Ducks Unlimited about a, a botulism, get this, a botulism outbreak.

• 4:47Steven Rinella?

  Killing thousands of ducks right now. A botulism outbreak, killing thousands of wild ducks.

• 4:52Speaker 07

  Weird.

• 4:52Steven Rinella?

  You know? But for starters, we're gonna announcing, here's the, I've been dying to talk about this, we haven't talked about it yet, the Christmas tour, this year's Christmas tour is coming up. This time we're hitting, last year's Christmas tour is down south. It was kinda like the Yankees come down south.

• 5:12Steven Rinella?

  You know, like Sherman's march all over again.

• 5:15Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 5:15Steven Rinella?

  But.

• 5:16Speaker 07

  You guys wrecked that place.

• 5:17Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, we wrecked it. But, but this is, this is more in the Midwest. So we're gonna do, this year's Christmas tour, where you come out, all theater shows, a night of entertainment, guaranteed laughs, live music, you name it. Monday, December 14th, we're gonna be in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Okay? At Monroe Live, 20 Monroe Live, what does that mean? That's a theater. Grand Rapids, Michigan, so very close to where I grew up. That's where I went to regular college. That's where I finished regular college, was in Grand Rapids, Michigan. Tuesday, December 15th, Milwaukee, Wisconsin, Turner Hall. Wednesday, December 16th, Madison,

• 6:01Steven Rinella?

  Wisconsin, Barrymore. I have a feeling there's gonna be a lot of people that aren't from Madison, there asking why it was in Madison.

• 6:14Speaker 07

  I'm not following.

• 6:15Steven Rinella?

  That happens a lot. Like, the people that come to the show aren't actually from Madison.

• 6:21Speaker 07

  Like they're coming in from the country to go to the big city?

• 6:23Steven Rinella?

  I can't believe you had it in Madison. Now I gotta come into Madison, all these hippies, you know? Um, so come tell me all about that. That's at the Barry, that's at the Barrymore.

• 6:36Steven Rinella?

  Clay Newcomb, Brent Reeves, me, Yanis, Potellus is in the live tour this year. Great show. Again, live music, guaranteed laughs, lots of prizes. Thursday, December 17th, so December 17th, the Christmas, Meat Eater Christmas Tour, Des Moines, Iowa, at the Val Air Ballroom. Friday, December 18th, Minneapolis, Minnesota, Pantages Theater.

• 7:05Steven Rinella?

  Then the tour closes, the sixth night of the tour, Saturday, December 19th, Fargo, North Dakota, Fargo Theater.

• 7:15Speaker 07

  Is there any like special guests?

• 7:17Steven Rinella?

  We'll get it all, we'll get to all that later.

• 7:19Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 7:19Steven Rinella?

  We'll announce that later. December 14, Grand Rapids. December 15, Milwaukee. December 16, Madison, Wisconsin. December 17, Des Moines, Iowa. December 18, Minneapolis, Minnesota. December 19, Fargo, North Dakota. Guaranteed laughs, lots of prizes, Meat Eater's Christmas Tour. Also, the punt gun that we shot and made our punt gun video about. We bought it for 20 grand from Rock Island, which is a premier auction site for antique firearms and other firearms. We're selling it back. We're selling it at Rock Island. All money

• 7:59Steven Rinella?

  goes to conservation, okay? The auction is on August 23rd. It's part of Rock Island's August premiere auction. It is a two gauge, two gauge Holland and Holland punt gun. Features 95% of its original paint, custom engravings. And it works. When we bought it, we didn't know if it works. It works. We shot it six times. We have the shell casings. You can have a functioning gun and you can watch a video of it working. Very rarely on Rock Island does a punt gun come up. But this is happening, August 23rd. Rock Island is the world's biggest

• 8:44Steven Rinella?

  auction house for antique and historic firearms. They sell, for you punt gun enthusiasts out there, they sell less than one punt gun every year. That's how rare this is. This is the only punt gun Rock Island has ever sold that they know for a fact works. How's that for a superlative?

• 9:08Speaker 07

  Yeah. The only one. The one and only.

• 9:11Steven Rinella?

  Oh, Jeremy Romero's here. He's not normal on the news show.

• 9:13Speaker 07

  Did they know, when you bought it from the first time, did they know that it worked?

• 9:17Steven Rinella?

  No, we had to find out that it worked.

• 9:19Speaker 07

  Gotcha. It definitely works.

• 9:22Steven Rinella?

  Works great. The only punt gun that has ever sold on Rock Island that works, well, that they know works.

• 9:29Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 9:29Steven Rinella?

  It's like when Dirt, when we found out Dirt has a narwhal allergy.

• 9:35Steven Rinella?

  Many people probably have narwhal allergies, but they don't know.

• 9:40Speaker 07

  They don't have the opportunity to find out.

• 9:41Steven Rinella?

  But he has a certified narwhal allergy. Now, when Dirt goes to restaurants and they say any allergies, Dirt can now say, which I'm jealous of, he can say narwhal.

• 9:52Speaker 07

  So what, did he, did he eat narwhal?

• 9:55Steven Rinella?

  He ate it and it took him four times to figure out that that's what was getting him. His throat chokes up, he turns bright red, gets all itchy.

• 10:03Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 10:03Steven Rinella?

  When he eats narwhal.

• 10:06Steven Rinella?

  The fourth time, we ate a good bit of it. And then he finally got it in his head. He's like, I have a narwhal allergy. I know I do now. I didn't know what's been happening, but the four times I've eaten it, I've had an immediate reaction.

• 10:18Speaker 07

  Huh.

• 10:19Steven Rinella?

  Dirt is allergic to narwhal.

• 10:21Speaker 07

  Interesting.

• 10:23Steven Rinella?

  We bought the punt gun for 20,000 bucks. Rock Island estimates, estimates, estimate, yeah, estimates, that it will sell for between 20 and 30 grand.

• 10:35Speaker 07

  It's a good chunk of change for conservation.

• 10:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you people out there that want to take your turn owning the punt gun, if we, if the punt gun goes for less than we bought it, that's a real kick to the nuts for us.

• 10:46Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 10:47Steven Rinella?

  Because we went and got the trouble. We're giving you a shell casing and the gun works.

• 10:52Speaker 04

  You guys custom made those cases too, right?

• 10:54Steven Rinella?

  Custom casings.

• 10:56Speaker 07

  Yeah, and they're not cheap either, right?

• 10:57Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 10:59Steven Rinella?

  Every dollar goes to the Meat Eater Land Access Initiative. Rock Island is even waiving their fees. So the even more money goes to conservation. August 23rd, you don't need to be in person to bid. When Spencer, uh, New Hearth won it at auction, he won it remotely.

• 11:20Speaker 07

  Is there, do you know if there's a minimum bid or how they're doing it?

• 11:23Steven Rinella?

  Don't know. RockIslandAuction.com is a great question, but I can't answer it. Check out, it's lot 3386. Get your own punt gun.

• 11:31Speaker 04

  So you're selling one shell with it so they can?

• 11:34Steven Rinella?

  We're throwing it in a shell so you can bring it to your machineist to have them mock up the shell. And we'll tell you everything we know about shooting it. Shoot's great. Shoot's great.

• 11:45Steven Rinella?

  Last little, uh, bit of deal here. The season or season opener sale. So Meat Eater's season opener sale is live and it's the best time to gear up for your hunt. Buy one, get one free on all Meat Eater tees and hoodies. 50% off select game bags. Plus get deals on our favorite hunting gear. From First Light, Phelps Game Calls, FHF, Moultrie, Yeti, and more.

• 12:12Steven Rinella?

  You can even save on our most popular seasonings and trivia games. Head over to TheMeatEaterStore.com to gear up for your hunt seasonal opener sale.

• 12:23Steven Rinella?

  Okay, time for our news. Fishing report. Fishing has been

• 12:29Steven Rinella?

  spectacular.

• 12:32Speaker 07

  Like almost as good as the weather, which is like

• 12:36Steven Rinella?

  Spectacular.

• 12:36Speaker 07

  Equally odd.

• 12:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Some years are good, some years are not good. I don't know what it is. It's just been a stellar year for fishing.

• 12:44Speaker 07

  I, when I come up here, I usually expect it to be half the days decent, half the days slow. Like, you know, temper your expectations, but yeah, it's been amazing.

• 12:55Speaker 04

  And mixed bag. You catch a little bit of everything.

• 12:58Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah, mixed bag. We, um, you know, Kings, King salmon numbers have been down and there's been a lot of restrictions on King salmon. They must be having pretty good returns in, in, in BC, British Columbia, I'm guessing. Because a couple of years this time of year, it's just closed, closed, no retention on Kings. Um, then it was like you could have one, you could have two, but you can, a non-resident can catch a couple of Kings.

• 13:23Speaker 07

  It's, it's, it's been pretty predictable the last, fairly predictable last, what, two, three

• 13:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 13:30Speaker 07

  years? I don't know if that's because we figured out how to fish for.

• 13:34Steven Rinella?

  I know, I know exactly what it is. It's flutter jigs.

• 13:36Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 13:37Speaker 04

  Think so.

• 13:37Speaker 07

  We shouldn't be talking about this.

• 13:40Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 13:40Speaker 07

  Giving it away.

• 13:41Steven Rinella?

  I'll tell you what doesn't work. Scratch that. Scratch what I said. We used to jig a lot of halibut with lead head jigs and

• 13:51Steven Rinella?

  grub, what do you, what do you call them?

• 13:52Speaker 07

  Twist.

• 13:52Steven Rinella?

  Grub tail.

• 13:53Speaker 07

  Yeah, like a twist, twist tail. Yeah, big glow, glow ones.

• 13:56Steven Rinella?

  Kings don't hit them.

• 13:57Speaker 07

  Nope.

• 13:59Steven Rinella?

  But Kings like, Pink's like flutter jigs.

• 14:01Speaker 07

  Everything likes flutter jig.

• 14:03Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Kings hit flutter jigs.

• 14:05Speaker 04

  Deep.

• 14:06Steven Rinella?

  So, what's that?

• 14:07Speaker 04

  And deep.

• 14:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 14:08Speaker 04

  Real deep.

• 14:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's the weird thing too about Kings is that they're like, just ways that you don't picture King salmon is, we get some Kings scattered, but you know, we hook Kings that are grabbing a flutter jig that's banging the bottom in 180 feet of water, 200 feet of water.

• 14:27Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 14:27Steven Rinella?

  He's down there grubbing in the mud, which is not how you picture a King salmon.

• 14:32Speaker 07

  Yeah, and you can expect, I don't know, a couple of good opportunities a day.

• 14:38Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 14:40Speaker 07

  You, you screwed one up yesterday.

• 14:41Steven Rinella?

  I screwed one up. Bro, uh, Brody's boy, he'll come, he'll be on talking about this in a minute.

• 14:49Speaker 07

  I'm not gonna talk about it. I wasn't in your boat.

• 14:51Steven Rinella?

  Oh, well, he'll talk. Well, ask him about it.

• 14:54Speaker 04

  I brought one up today that was 27 inches.

• 14:56Steven Rinella?

  27 inches.

• 14:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, there's a minimum of 28.

• 14:59Steven Rinella?

  I threw a 26, I threw a 26 King back.

• 15:02Speaker 07

  Mm-hmm. We got a legal one today, Hayden. Hayden got a legal one today.

• 15:05Steven Rinella?

  Yep.

• 15:06Speaker 04

  Well, it's a little confusing when you hook them, right? Cause you're, you're dropping your bottom fishing for halibut and caught expecting to really set the hook in something that's gonna give you some fight and you set the hook and your line just goes slack. Before you know it, you're reeling as fast as you can to catch up to it. And it's like you're processing it all as it's happening. Yeah.

• 15:24Steven Rinella?

  That's the weird thing about King salmon psychology. Is like a halibut, he wants nothing to do with that boat.

• 15:33Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 15:33Steven Rinella?

  He wants nothing to do with the surface of the ocean.

• 15:36Speaker 07

  Wants that bottom back.

• 15:37Steven Rinella?

  In his mind, he's like, I'm not leaving the bottom.

• 15:41Speaker 07

  And he's also not going laterally, like

• 15:44Steven Rinella?

  No, he's like, he's like, I'm gonna stay.

• 15:47Speaker 07

  Unless you catch them shallow. Right. Then they freaking run like

• 15:50Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, Seth Hook one, a big one, real shallow, and then it took off.

• 15:54Speaker 07

  Right. Yeah.

• 15:55Steven Rinella?

  But normally they stay glued to the bottom.

• 15:56Speaker 07

  Yeah. But yeah, you're reeling, nothing's happening, and you, you're like, what's going on? And then 50 yards from the boat, a King salmon's jumping out of the water.

• 16:05Steven Rinella?

  If you want to think of it spatially, picture that you're standing at a urinal. Like, looking down. A King wants to be around that hole that the pee drains down. Like, he's like, just down.

• 16:18Speaker 07

  You mean a halibut?

• 16:19Steven Rinella?

  A halibut, sorry. A halibut. Wants to be down in there.

• 16:23Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 16:23Steven Rinella?

  A King wants to be up by the handle, the flush handle.

• 16:27Speaker 07

  A King's, a King's the, uh, the spray that's coming out and hitting you in the, in the knees. Yeah.

• 16:32Steven Rinella?

  But why a King salmon? It's weird that a King salmon thinks the way he does. What does he think? Like, you haven't even, even if you haven't even put pressure on him yet.

• 16:43Speaker 07

  No.

• 16:43Speaker 04

  No. They're up.

• 16:44Steven Rinella?

  He, just the fact that he has a hook in his lip makes him want to come up and breach the surface.

• 16:49Speaker 07

  Yeah, and that's when things are gonna go wrong.

• 16:51Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 16:51Speaker 04

  Well, you have to back your drag off, right? Cause your drag's tight for a halibut. So the moment you feel like it's a King.

• 16:58Steven Rinella?

  Oh, and he's got three miles of slack, but yeah.

• 17:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I mean, you're like reeling up as fast as you can, trying to back your drag off at the same time, and then

• 17:06Speaker 07

  Yeah, the problem with, the only problem with the flutter jig is, is that just, they're heavy.

• 17:11Steven Rinella?

  And they

• 17:11Speaker 07

  And once they get out of the water with those things, they shake them off, like

• 17:16Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, I always think maybe he's gonna knock himself out.

• 17:19Speaker 07

  Just lay there in the water.

• 17:21Speaker 04

  There were a few times in years past where we just never took a net with us. So getting those Kings into the boat, that was a hassle.

• 17:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 17:30Speaker 07

  Cause you gotta know they're legal, and then you gotta get a gaff in them while they're going nuts.

• 17:34Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, you gotta sort of like rough gauge them.

• 17:36Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 17:36Steven Rinella?

  On legality.

• 17:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 17:38Steven Rinella?

  I learned a thing today that I didn't know. Um,

• 17:43Steven Rinella?

  I just heard, it may be a rumor. Doesn't sound like a rumor. I heard today that a, a friend of a friend,

• 17:56Steven Rinella?

  there's, there's a fish called a yelloweye rockfish you're allowed. Right now, a non-resident is allowed. What? Yeah. This gets so complicated.

• 18:05Speaker 07

  We've talked about it before, but yeah.

• 18:07Steven Rinella?

  Alaska regulates rockfish in sort of, not by species, but almost like by classification of rockfish.

• 18:13Speaker 07

  Kind of where they live.

• 18:14Steven Rinella?

  Yep. So you have plagiac rockfish, shelf rockfish, and slope rockfish, and each of those buckets has specimens in the buckets. But there is one rockfish, the yelloweye rockfish, that you have to log the catch.

• 18:28Speaker 07

  If you're a non-resident.

• 18:29Steven Rinella?

  You have, you have to log the catch.

• 18:30Speaker 07

  You're one a year.

• 18:31Steven Rinella?

  I heard today, and I didn't know this. And I'm gonna be way more diligent about it going forward. I didn't know that it was this quick. Cause we'll come back at night. I don't want to incriminate myself. I didn't know it was immediate. I, I heard, sometimes you just do it. The app makes it easier. Once you get used to the app. I kind of forgot about the app, but the app makes it easier. Um, a guy caught a yelloweye. ADFG.

• 18:57Steven Rinella?

  Must've been watching him with binoculars. They waited thirteen minutes.

• 19:02Speaker 07

  Oh, for him to-

• 19:03Steven Rinella?

  Approached his boat and gave him a citation for not logging his yellow eye.

• 19:08Speaker 07

  Yeah, that's like, big game. Fill out your carcass tag immediately.

• 19:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, they treat it like no different. And I didn't, I, I just like, just ignorance on my part, not doing, not doing my work to, to read the regs carefully. I did not know that it meant like the second. You caught it.

• 19:26Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 19:27Steven Rinella?

  We're always, you know, I'm just, like I said, just, I'm just admitting the guilt, you know, we'll be like, oh, don't forget.

• 19:33Speaker 07

  Well, so many of those things in other states are, are like twenty-four hours.

• 19:37Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Yeah, like we catch a bobcat, you got twenty-four hours to report the bobcat. I had no idea that you have to immediately like put it in your cooler and act like you're tagging it here.

• 19:45Speaker 07

  I didn't know that either.

• 19:45Speaker 04

  I think it says it in the regs.

• 19:47Speaker 07

  Is it, uh?

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Immediately upon.

• 19:49Speaker 07

  It's probably this, I don't know if it would be just yellow eye. Would it be that way for link cod and ki- like?

• 19:54Speaker 04

  Kings.

• 19:55Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, of the rockfish. So, sablefish.

• 19:58Speaker 07

  Yep. All the non-resident, like.

• 20:00Steven Rinella?

  Sablefish, kings, yellow eyes.

• 20:03Speaker 07

  Link cod.

• 20:04Steven Rinella?

  Uh, salmon shark.

• 20:06Speaker 04

  Lings.

• 20:06Steven Rinella?

  Link cod.

• 20:07Speaker 07

  Yep. That's good to know.

• 20:10Steven Rinella?

  Log it immediately. That's a, that's a public service announcement for you anglers out there. Log your stuff. I didn't know. But I can tell you what? Going forward.

• 20:20Speaker 07

  Well, like you said, the app-

• 20:21Steven Rinella?

  Johnny logbook, man.

• 20:23Speaker 07

  The app is-

• 20:24Steven Rinella?

  I'm gonna log them when I hook into them.

• 20:25Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 20:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, the app makes sense.

• 20:27Speaker 07

  With a yellow eye, you kinda can.

• 20:29Steven Rinella?

  Pull your phone.

• 20:30Speaker 07

  They don't get away much.

• 20:31Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So, Kyle, who you'll be hearing from, we're gonna do a quick interview with him, just part of America's terrible youth. Uh, he caught his yellow eye. We went out and tried to get his yellow eye.

• 20:43Speaker 07

  Took him a whole week to do it. I watched it happen this morning.

• 20:47Steven Rinella?

  And my little, my little boy was like, get the gaff, get the gaff. And I'm like, that fish, he can't get away if he wanted to, man. That fish ain't going nowhere.

• 20:55Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah, it's tough. You can bring him halfway up and he can get off and he'll eventually, he'll eventually.

• 21:01Steven Rinella?

  Well, you know what? I've, I've seen that happen two times. I have two times seen yellow eyes in three hundred feet of water, come off

• 21:14Steven Rinella?

  somewhere on the journey up. And I'm not kidding you, ten minutes later, whatever, there's a yellow eye floating there.

• 21:20Speaker 07

  Yeah, as much as he would-

• 21:21Steven Rinella?

  He got barrel trauma. He got enough barrel trauma before he shook the hook. That he came off.

• 21:27Speaker 07

  As much as he'd like to get back down there, he can't.

• 21:30Steven Rinella?

  Can't do it. Can't do it.

• 21:31Speaker 07

  With those things, you feel like you, you get a couple head shakes in the beginning and then it's just like dragging up something.

• 21:38Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 21:39Speaker 07

  Heavy and-

• 21:40Steven Rinella?

  They, they got, they got a good five seconds of fight.

• 21:43Speaker 07

  Yeah, then they're done.

• 21:44Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 21:45Speaker 07

  But you're digging that automatic, that automatic, uh, release descender thing you're using.

• 21:51Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, we had a guy on, this, here's another hot tip for anglers, man. We had a guy on from, I think he was, he was, was he nature? Yeah, we, yeah, he's from Nature Conservancy. And he brought, so i- i- in Alaska, and this is true in other places too, but in Alaska, if you're fishing, um, if you're fishing, I can't think, if you're fishing rockfish or there's a potential to catch rockfish, whatever it is, you have to have a descender device with you. There's a lot of fish species, goliath groupers are one, I think, and, um, all the rockfish are one. They don't, they don't, they don't, they can't equalize well. So when they do a sudden, when they do a sudden pressure change from going from deep to shallow,

• 22:34Steven Rinella?

  their swim bladder can't regulate. Like a halibut can't. Like you can take a halibut from five hundred feet of water to the surface and he needs to swim back down. But a rockfish has to very slowly do it like a scuba diver. He has to do a slow ascend. So they regulate that you have onboard a descender device. This guy gave us these pressure sensitive descenders. And you can set it one hundred, two hundred, three hundred.

• 23:02Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 23:03Steven Rinella?

  And normally you're trying to put this little needle in his lip.

• 23:07Speaker 07

  Oh, and you're getting, all those rockfish have spines and-

• 23:10Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah. And then you're keeping him longer and he's can't, he's not cooperating because he don't know what's going on. You're trying to explain to him. It's like, listen dude, I'm trying to send you back to the bottom of the ocean. Calm down.

• 23:21Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 23:22Steven Rinella?

  This descender has like a little plier on it. It's like, it's the most ingenious. It's called the sequelizer.

• 23:27Speaker 07

  It's almost like the jaws on a bogey grip.

• 23:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:30Steven Rinella?

  You know?

• 23:30Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 23:31Steven Rinella?

  Sequelizer. It's got the perfect grip for grabbing him. You grab his lip and it goes, you set it to whatever. If you're, if you're fishing a hundred, around a hundred feet of water, set it to a hundred feet. Go down and it just lets the fish go. I, I watch him on my fish finder. The thing is, that thing is unbelievably accurate.

• 23:50Speaker 07

  See the fish keep going, yeah.

• 23:52Steven Rinella?

  You'll, you'll, you'll see, you'll be watching that thing go down. They get to a hundred and all of a sudden like the fish breaks off. He always breaks right.

• 24:02Steven Rinella?

  He breaks right and goes and like slowly makes his way down, man.

• 24:08Speaker 07

  Huh.

• 24:09Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, it worked great.

• 24:10Speaker 04

  Yeah, I've been using that old, old school descender and that's, that's a pain.

• 24:14Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 24:14Speaker 04

  Upside down bobby pin looking deal.

• 24:17Steven Rinella?

  I highly recommend the sequelizer descender if you're a person that lives in these areas. But the thing we're discussing is the peacock deal because halibut have all the cachet. People wanna come catch a halibut. When you leave in the morning, you say, we're going for halibut. But more and more, I'm going for peacock.

• 24:38Speaker 07

  Oh, we go.

• 24:38Steven Rinella?

  Pacific cod.

• 24:39Speaker 07

  Yeah, you're hoping for those big waves of just cod after cod. It's so much better.

• 24:45Steven Rinella?

  That is an eaten fish.

• 24:46Speaker 07

  So much better. Cause you're here to collect food. It ain't about like, I need a big fight out of that thing.

• 24:52Steven Rinella?

  It is an eaten, it is an eaten fish.

• 24:55Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 24:56Steven Rinella?

  We had cod there night, we had hell last night. It's like cod is just a better fish.

• 25:00Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 25:01Steven Rinella?

  They call it gray cod or Pacific cod. Far superior fish. Not a big fight.

• 25:07Speaker 07

  You're gonna get some, some people writing in about that, I bet. Soft mouths, you can't, you gotta-

• 25:11Steven Rinella?

  Wrong people.

• 25:12Speaker 07

  You gotta, uh, you can't really set the hook real hard on them.

• 25:17Steven Rinella?

  No, you'll, yeah.

• 25:18Speaker 07

  You'll tear them.

• 25:20Steven Rinella?

  You know, soft mouth, soft bodies, annoying to flay.

• 25:23Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 25:24Steven Rinella?

  Very annoying to flay.

• 25:25Speaker 07

  Why, why is that?

• 25:26Steven Rinella?

  Cause it's of their bodies doesn't have rigidity. Like flaying a halibut is elegant.

• 25:30Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 25:31Steven Rinella?

  Flaying a peacock is like, you just feel like you're never doing it the same way twice.

• 25:34Speaker 07

  It's like a train wreck, yeah.

• 25:35Steven Rinella?

  It's like flaying, uh, it's like flaying catfish.

• 25:38Speaker 07

  Yeah. Kinda, yeah. That's true.

• 25:40Steven Rinella?

  Big head. Um, a peacock likes that jig tickling the mud now and then.

• 25:45Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 25:46Steven Rinella?

  I think he's down there in that mud.

• 25:47Speaker 07

  They don't whack it. Sometimes it's just a little tickle and.

• 25:51Steven Rinella?

  That's a hell of a fish.

• 25:52Speaker 07

  That's a fry- the frying-est of all fish.

• 25:55Steven Rinella?

  The frying-est of all fish. Uh, oh, here's another gear report. I, so the sequelizer is a hell of a piece of equipment.

• 26:04Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 26:05Steven Rinella?

  I bought a ceramic fishing knife.

• 26:10Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 26:10Steven Rinella?

  Because you never have to worry, it doesn't get rusty.

• 26:13Speaker 07

  And everything.

• 26:14Steven Rinella?

  And they're cheap. No, it's a serrated, it looks like a paring knife. It's serrated and it's ceramic. You just leave it on your boat, never gets rusty.

• 26:21Speaker 07

  Nice.

• 26:21Steven Rinella?

  Well, we went to kill a fish with it and the tip broke off and then I dropped it over the side of the boat.

• 26:27Steven Rinella?

  So I don't know. I should be one of those guys that goes on Amazon and gives it a bad review. One star. Fell over the side of the boat.

• 26:39Steven Rinella?

  It's like, you're like going to buy a product on Amazon and you're reading the reviews and people are giving it bad reviews for stuff like that has nothing to do with the product whatsoever.

• 26:47Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 26:47Steven Rinella?

  You know? Um, but I think I'm on to something with a ceramic fish knife, if you can keep from losing over the side of the boat.

• 26:54Speaker 07

  Have to check it out.

• 26:55Speaker 04

  Do they stay pretty sharp?

• 26:57Steven Rinella?

  Didn't have it long enough. I dropped it over the side of the boat right off the bat. That was an incomplete gear report. I'll have to, I'll have to come back for part two of this gear report. But if anyone's got a hot tip about that, I'd be curious to hear their hot tip.

• 27:12Speaker 03

  Nine one one, what's your emergency? We help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 27:20Speaker 02

  Nine one one Nashville returns.

• 27:22Speaker 05

  It's a homicide detective down here.

• 27:24Speaker 02

  Three bodies on the ground with emergencies of biblical proportions. All sins swarms upon you and upon your people.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  That's one of the plagues of the Bible.

• 27:32Speaker 02

  And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville. Ryan Phillippe joins nine one one Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu.

• 27:41Speaker 05

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to four hundred thousand dollars make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 28:09Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and scents to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator are trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 28:40Steven Rinella?

  Okay, you guys, are you guys ready to bring over our first interview subject?

• 28:44Speaker 07

  Sure.

• 28:44Steven Rinella?

  Okay. We're gonna dig into America's youth. Who wants to start? Hayden? Come on over. Brody's boy Hayden's coming over.

• 28:55Speaker 07

  Here he is.

• 28:58Steven Rinella?

  Hayden, how, uh, Hayden Henderson, introduce yourself.

• 29:01Speaker 07

  Hi, my name's Hayden. I'm Brody's kid.

• 29:04Steven Rinella?

  And, uh, tell everybody what you've been doing with your time as, uh, after school.

• 29:09Speaker 07

  Running for cross-country mostly.

• 29:11Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 29:12Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 29:13Steven Rinella?

  Yesterday we had a situation. Here's one of the things I want to ask you about. Yesterday we had a situation where you, you, you weren't breaking the law because we were in saltwater. You had a king salmon attack your flutter jig. And as happens, well, a couple of things happens. I think they swipe at the flutter jig and get hooked, or I think sometimes they get lip hooked. But when they're rolling around, they get the assist hook, one of the assist hooks in their tail and then their, their lip hook dislodges and then he's in the tail. But either way, he came up ass backward.

• 29:47Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 29:49Steven Rinella?

  He was chill. He comes up to the surface. Nice big king. Definitely twenty-eight inch king. I grabbed the net. I go in for a scoop. And miss.

• 30:00Speaker 07

  Ooh.

• 30:01Steven Rinella?

  Fish is gone.

• 30:02Speaker 07

  Ooh.

• 30:03Steven Rinella?

  Did you, and I want you to level with me.

• 30:08Steven Rinella?

  When you run that through your head, do you think

• 30:14Steven Rinella?

  that gentleman was try- just trying to help? Or do you feel like, do you feel like, um, like I cost you that fish?

• 30:23Speaker 07

  No, it was fighting. Weird. It was fighting like a halibut. It didn't burn up to the surface. Pulling down and then you said you just hesitated when it came to the surface and you just paused and was too slow with the net.

• 30:36Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but how have you? How did it change our relationship?

• 30:42Steven Rinella?

  He lost it for you.

• 30:44Speaker 04

  Were you thinking like this is a man who's netted many kings? He shouldn't be able, he shouldn't make a mistake like that or things happen?

• 30:51Steven Rinella?

  Or like I knew he would do that.

• 30:54Speaker 07

  He wasn't talking bad about you behind your back.

• 30:57Steven Rinella?

  It must be, it must, something with you and the Hendersons, because I, I witnessed out here. That's, that's the thing. Last year. A lot of Henderson fish.

• 31:07Speaker 04

  We got two, you got two more to go.

• 31:09Steven Rinella?

  To the point where I think they're like, he feels like if he can't have them, no one can.

• 31:16Speaker 07

  I don't even go on Steve's boat.

• 31:17Steven Rinella?

  A little fishy.

• 31:19Speaker 07

  It'll happen to me if I go on Steve's boat.

• 31:21Steven Rinella?

  Brody's wife, for instance.

• 31:23Speaker 04

  Wasn't even in Steve's boat.

• 31:25Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, Brody's wife, nice halibut. Yeah, in her own boat, not even, not even a part of your boat. I climbed aboard her boat and lost her.

• 31:36Speaker 07

  You weren't, you weren't super bummed out.

• 31:38Steven Rinella?

  I'm like, let me in there, let me in there.

• 31:40Speaker 07

  No, because I also got that king today. Yeah, yeah, made up for it. Yeah, it all worked out. And he's spending a boat with me and a bunch, losing fish for him, screaming at him for doing it wrong.

• 31:51Speaker 04

  It happens.

• 31:52Steven Rinella?

  So it didn't shake anything up?

• 31:53Speaker 07

  No.

• 31:54Steven Rinella?

  What was the highlight of your, of your, your trip, your week fishing?

• 31:58Speaker 07

  It might have been today, because today started off kind of slow, but then we went and got three slot link cods. I got my king salmon. So it was a pretty good day.

• 32:08Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, your family went from no legal link cod. We should explain that. You want to talk about it?

• 32:13Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's tough.

• 32:14Steven Rinella?

  Regulation. Tight slot. A link cod has to be between thirty and thirty-five inches to keep it.

• 32:21Speaker 07

  Can I, can I?

• 32:22Steven Rinella?

  You're allowed one a year.

• 32:24Speaker 07

  It left, uh, was what, four or five years ago, it's thirty to forty-five? And they knocked it thirty, thirty to forty. And now it's thirty to thirty-five.

• 32:33Steven Rinella?

  I'm waiting for it to go thirty to thirty-one. Oh, which we would have had, we would have had one the other day.

• 32:39Speaker 07

  Had one too.

• 32:40Steven Rinella?

  Uh, yeah, it's a tight slot. It's a tight slot, thirty, thirty-five. We had an over, we had an over slot fish today. We had two under slot fish. But Brody did, uh, you guys did kind of a miracle thing and, and hit, in one day, hit three slot fish.

• 32:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, they're, those are, they're so cool, those fish.

• 33:00Steven Rinella?

  I should clarify, you're allowed one over, you're technically allowed two link cod a year because you're allowed one over fifty-five, but those don't exist.

• 33:07Speaker 07

  Oh, my God.

• 33:08Steven Rinella?

  If you get one, you're looking at a state record. The state record is fifty-five inches. The world, the world, it might be the world record. They're letting you keep a new record. Yeah.

• 33:17Speaker 04

  Hard to imagine a fifty-five inch link cod.

• 33:20Steven Rinella?

  I used to think that we were going to catch one.

• 33:22Speaker 04

  When they're thirty-five, they're big.

• 33:26Steven Rinella?

  I was like, there's gotta be a bunch of them out there. And Seth's like, well, it would be, he's like, Seth, I think, I think Seth said the world record was fifty-four. Wow. Yeah, it's fifty-four, fifty-five inches, something like that. Yeah, something. I'm sure they exist, but, uh, interestingly, for a while, the state record link cod, I don't know about now, but the state record link cod was only from about seven, eight miles from here. But remember from the eighties, from the eighties. The state record might be the world, I don't, I remember looking that up. Like who's gonna beat it? I don't know. Yeah.

• 33:57Speaker 07

  Yeah, but some mean, cool fish.

• 33:59Steven Rinella?

  So, uh, tell me, so today you liked it because it started out a slow bite and then you got onto a hot bite. You guys, you guys brought in a lot of kelp greenling.

• 34:07Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 34:07Steven Rinella?

  Oh, I love that fish. You know?

• 34:09Speaker 07

  Big ones too.

• 34:10Steven Rinella?

  Yep, and then, uh, you got a king, you got those link cods.

• 34:13Speaker 07

  Got some black rock fish.

• 34:15Steven Rinella?

  Got some black rock fish. That's the pelagic rock fish, which you're allowed a couple a day, a few a day, something like that. Yeah. Uh, you, you, you imagine coming and fishing again next year, Hayden?

• 34:24Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 34:26Steven Rinella?

  Let's say there was a track, let's say there was a cross-country race. And you had to decide what would be more important to you.

• 34:34Speaker 07

  There's, there's some backstory to this. We do the youth hunt together and I'm missing, missing it because I have a varsity cross-country race.

• 34:43Steven Rinella?

  How do they already know they're gonna have a race that day?

• 34:45Speaker 07

  Because they just like schedule.

• 34:48Steven Rinella?

  This far in advance?

• 34:49Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 34:50Steven Rinella?

  You couldn't say like, well, hey, I got a conflict.

• 34:52Speaker 07

  No, because they're like scheduled by each school. I'm not sure which one it is.

• 34:56Steven Rinella?

  Call the principal or something. You think that's some, that's something that they would look into? Yeah, like, well, they'd be like, hey, boys, anybody got any hunts planned or anything? We're trying to plan a cross-country race. I mean, it's Montana.

• 35:09Speaker 07

  I don't think the race is during the youth season, but it was, it'd be during the trip out to the camp.

• 35:16Steven Rinella?

  So when you look at those race schedule, it doesn't say for date, it doesn't say youth season.

• 35:25Steven Rinella?

  But they might be totally, meaning they might be totally unaware of the conflict.

• 35:28Speaker 07

  You gotta answer Steve's question though. Would you, would you skip a week here? For a week here? Yeah, because this is really my. Skip a race? Yeah, I'd, this is really only one chance, but I have more opportunities to go get a deer.

• 35:43Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that is true. Any, any final things you'd like to add?

• 35:48Speaker 07

  No, not really.

• 35:49Steven Rinella?

  What do you think is wrong with kids these days?

• 35:53Steven Rinella?

  Like, why are you guys so terrible?

• 35:57Steven Rinella?

  Just look at Jimmy, it's that thing, it's that, just that thing in his hand right there. Out running cross-country fishing. Whatever happened to the old kind of kids?

• 36:07Steven Rinella?

  What did they do? They played Pac-Man and Frogger.

• 36:15Steven Rinella?

  Anything you'd like to add, Hayden?

• 36:17Speaker 07

  Nope.

• 36:17Steven Rinella?

  Wish you best luck. So you're trying to be varsity, you're trying to be varsity cross-country, which means you're playing up, you're dating up.

• 36:26Speaker 07

  Yeah, our team had seven seniors graduate, which is like a whole varsity roster, so I'm assuming.

• 36:34Steven Rinella?

  So, oh, so there might be room for you.

• 36:35Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 36:36Steven Rinella?

  But you're gonna be in what grade?

• 36:37Speaker 07

  Tenth grade, sophomore.

• 36:39Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 36:41Steven Rinella?

  Got it. And you're looking forward to this opportunity? Okay. Now, one last question for you.

• 36:50Steven Rinella?

  This is through the school, not through like league or club or something.

• 36:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's the school cross-country team.

• 36:57Steven Rinella?

  Got it. So you got like little jerseys and everything?

• 36:59Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 37:00Steven Rinella?

  Okay. Um, do you think you're good enough to play college?

• 37:04Speaker 07

  No, I'd, going to college for sports was never planned, really.

• 37:10Steven Rinella?

  That's not what you, that's not what you want out of life?

• 37:12Speaker 07

  No, I don't think so.

• 37:13Steven Rinella?

  Like, but fishing, maybe?

• 37:14Speaker 07

  Maybe.

• 37:15Steven Rinella?

  Can't go to college for fishing these days. Not halibut fishing. No, but bass fishing. Yeah, you'll fish little teeny fish.

• 37:24Steven Rinella?

  You gotta fish teeny fish to go to college for it. Isn't that weird? There, some of the halibut we're catching out here are smaller than.

• 37:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're small.

• 37:32Steven Rinella?

  Larger mouth than I've caught before. The potential, the potential. That's true. All right, Hayden, thanks for joining, man.

• 37:38Speaker 07

  Thanks for having me.

• 37:38Steven Rinella?

  You know, we're gonna bring on our next terrible kid. Who's up? James? Come on, James.

• 37:46Steven Rinella?

  Ladies and gentlemen, we're stepping up in age. This is what happens, this is what happens to a kid when he hits sixteen.

• 37:52Speaker 07

  He wears his sunglasses at night.

• 37:54Steven Rinella?

  Sunglasses at night.

• 37:56Speaker 07

  Which I recently learned that's from a song.

• 38:02Steven Rinella?

  James, what's been the highlight of your trip?

• 38:06Speaker 07

  Probably attempting to shoot a salmon in the saltwater, because freshwater isn't legal.

• 38:13Steven Rinella?

  Spearfish is salmon.

• 38:14Speaker 07

  Spearfishing salmon.

• 38:14Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Well, would, give me a better one, because give me, give me something like a rod and reel highlight.

• 38:22Speaker 07

  That big link cod, that Kaia hooked today, who will be coming on soon, and that Matthew landed, that was over the slot.

• 38:31Speaker 07

  Um, so right now you can keep them thirty to thirty-five inches, and this one was thirty-eight, so it was over the slot.

• 38:36Steven Rinella?

  I think he was bigger. I, I didn't even straighten him out. I just, like, I held the, he wasn't even straight. And I held the, the, I got like a flexible tape measure, you know? And I just saw thirty-eight and I'm like, he's so crooked, he's thirty-eight. So I just knew he wasn't a contender. Yeah. That was the highlight of the trip?

• 38:56Speaker 07

  Do you got a better one?

• 38:57Steven Rinella?

  We're not, I don't know, like Kaia caught his yelloweye, caught like.

• 39:00Speaker 07

  Oh, okay.

• 39:01Steven Rinella?

  Kaia caught a slot.

• 39:02Speaker 07

  He'll, he'll probably talk about this, but usually when we go fish yelloweye, because it's a one a year fish, it's kind of like, you just drop down and get it.

• 39:10Speaker 04

  When either the weather's really bad or you have 20 minutes to burn. I mean, and we spent what, eight hours? I mean, like incredible amount of time.

• 39:19Steven Rinella?

  The first day I said, I'm gonna get my yellow eye. And like three minutes later, I had him in my hand. Jimmy got his yellow eye kind of on accident. And we kept being like, let's go get Kai's yellow eye. It's just that kid. We'll be hearing from him. How do you, uh, here's a question I'd like to ask you. How do you select, cause Kai was your guest? You, you brought a guest up to your family place. How did you make your selection?

• 39:47Speaker 04

  Well, Kai always works really hard because he works in the flagship store in Bozeman. Um, but before that, he's always had an interest in like saltwater fishing. Um, his family never, as you know, didn't have any sort of interest in like hunting or fishing. Um, and when that started to become a little bit more prevalent, when he was friends with me, he started to like saltwater fish and started to get more interested in that. So, um, over the two years that I've known him, that just became more and more of a thing. So I thought that he'd be a good person to have up here and try fishing.

• 40:23Steven Rinella?

  And then, uh, how, how you feeling about the decision to bring a friend up?

• 40:26Speaker 04

  I think it was a good idea. I think cock of the cove is in his reach.

• 40:30Steven Rinella?

  He could, yeah, he could, yeah, he could be in the running for cock of the cove.

• 40:38Speaker 04

  I guess you're running, yeah.

• 40:43Steven Rinella?

  So your highlights were all around your friend? Now, um, but your other highlight was trying to get a salmon with a spear gun. Which is, which is difficult. More difficult than I would have imagined. But you've done it successfully before.

• 40:56Speaker 04

  Yeah, um, more in a different creek than that, when they're a little bit more packed together and not as spooky. But I think because it's a little bit later and the seals have been chasing them around, um, and the water quality is so terrible that just trying to get one in range is a little bit more difficult.

• 41:14Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. So one, uh, just, just to be clear here, since we're law dog and like, uh, you just said in a creek. Can you explain what you mean by the different creek?

• 41:23Speaker 04

  Um, not in a creek, but outside of the mouth of a creek. There's like where the saltwater, um, reaches the freshwater. If you go just beyond that to where it's actually legal, there's two that are kind of bordering next to each other, but there's two different species of salmon that run there. We have pink salmon. Um, that run in the one to the left and then in the one to the right, there's more silvers and pinks, which is a little bit, um, and silvers hold up a little bit better in a freezer. So that's the one that I was trying to get one closer to that.

• 41:54Steven Rinella?

  So the regs work that you can't spear a salmon in freshwater.

• 42:01Steven Rinella?

  So you need to imagine the contour, the shoreline contours.

• 42:09Steven Rinella?

  And draw a line where you like imagine that the stream isn't there. So it's little estuary or mouth or whatever is off limits, but you can be out beyond that line. If you imagine the shoreline contour where the creek flows in, you could be out in the salt out there. But you're sort of targeting fish that are congregating to run.

• 42:30Speaker 04

  Yeah, you're just getting them, cause especially if you go while the tide's falling, um, the fish will like be pushed out into, um, the ocean a little bit more. And that's where you can try to shoot them then.

• 42:42Steven Rinella?

  What are they doing, Jim? When, when they see you moving around or they?

• 42:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, they don't like it at all. But what kind of gives you an advantage is if you run closer to the bank, those big schools, when they're coming at you will split on either side. And because they kind of don't know what's doing, just follow the other fish, like the one in front of them. If you try to cut off the group that's going along, like if I was going up, um, like if there was a group of fish to my left, if I were to start swimming that direction, I would cut them off to a shorter area where they'd be pushed up more to the bank and give me a closer shot with a spear gun.

• 43:17Steven Rinella?

  Gotcha. What I do, cause you're in shallow, so you can stand up and look for the wakes and swirls. You know, and then cruise down the shoreline trying to find, but, but, uh, You guys ever just stay in one spot? Yeah, I've done that. Yep.

• 43:31Speaker 04

  It's hard.

• 43:32Steven Rinella?

  Well, it's boring as all get out. Cause then you can stand up and you're like, oh, I should just swim over that.

• 43:38Steven Rinella?

  You wouldn't spook them as fast doing that. No, you don't. But no, they, but they know like, they know, you gotta, you know, you move your gun, they kind of recognize, cause they're getting hounded by seals and sea lions. So they're on high alert, man. You guys need like a ghillie suit?

• 43:55Speaker 07

  You know how there's, there's kelp lines? And they'll travel those kelp lines? Getting in there and ambush them?

• 44:02Steven Rinella?

  Again, you get in there and you're like, this is the greatest idea they've ever had, anybody's ever had. And then like come minutes later, you're like,

• 44:13Steven Rinella?

  It's just like, uh, last night I had that idea. Last night I got into some weeds, held on. You're like, I could sit here all night. I don't know. And then you just go, but yeah, hunting out in the kelp is a good idea, you know?

• 44:27Speaker 04

  There's also a lot of interesting stuff in there. Like you can find an octopus and grayling. That are down in the bottoms of that.

• 44:32Steven Rinella?

  A lot of crabs, little, uh, rock crabs you see diving.

• 44:37Steven Rinella?

  What, what else you got? Any other thing you'd like to add? We're gonna, we're gonna, we're gonna hear from your friend Kai in a second here.

• 44:43Speaker 04

  Yeah. He plays basketball.

• 44:46Steven Rinella?

  Mm-hmm. We'll get, we'll get into that. Well, what do you feel is wrong with today's youth? Why are you guys so terrible? Fishing and all that?

• 44:55Speaker 04

  Yeah, that makes us pretty awful. And then we all have phone addictions. So.

• 45:01Speaker 07

  But your phones don't work here.

• 45:02Speaker 04

  My phones don't work here, no.

• 45:05Steven Rinella?

  That's, that's why, that's why I like you so much more out here. Uh, thanks for coming on. James, appreciate it. Oh, uh, Jimmy, if you want, Jimmy, Jimmy likes taking, uh, photographs. You can go see some of Jimmy's photographs as you go on Instagram to at Jimmy Rinella. Is that what it is?

• 45:23Steven Rinella?

  He likes doing nature photographs.

• 45:25Speaker 04

  I'm kind of trying to copy Seth.

• 45:28Steven Rinella?

  Seth's been giving him some pointers.

• 45:29Speaker 07

  Yeah, you're doing good.

• 45:30Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 45:31Steven Rinella?

  Go check out his photos. Oh, also for you people that are listening and not watching, Jimmy is wearing a USS Jimmy Carter SSN 23 nuclear sub hat. I found that hat beachcombing probably 17 years ago.

• 45:47Steven Rinella?

  You wanna know a story about that hat? I has, I don't even like telling the story because it makes me feel sick.

• 45:54Steven Rinella?

  I had that hat for years and years and it got real moldy. And I looked at it for a couple of years. I looked at it and I thought, I'm gonna burn that hat.

• 46:05Steven Rinella?

  I don't know why. Just cause I was in a real cleanup mood. You ever get a real cleanup mood?

• 46:09Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah.

• 46:10Steven Rinella?

  And I assembled my burn pile, gassed it, got all my gas on it.

• 46:14Speaker 07

  Yanked it out at the last second?

• 46:16Steven Rinella?

  No. And I threw the hat on there. Um, it seems like something from a movie. I threw the hat on there, but the eruption. You know, when it catches, boom. Shot the hat.

• 46:29Speaker 07

  Really?

• 46:30Steven Rinella?

  Off the burn pile. And then I felt that I was being spoken to by like a divinity.

• 46:36Steven Rinella?

  Divine message.

• 46:37Speaker 07

  You gotta listen to serendipity.

• 46:38Steven Rinella?

  And I looked up at the skies and I said, never will I ever again attempt to dispose of this USS Jimmy Carter hat.

• 46:47Speaker 07

  Now, do you like to think that the captain of that sub, like they surfaced? He opened up, took a look around, his hat blew off?

• 46:54Steven Rinella?

  He, the captain of the sub

• 46:58Steven Rinella?

  was down there and he surfaced because he thought some.

• 47:00Speaker 07

  Ruski's?

• 47:02Steven Rinella?

  Ruski's, Chinese, North Koreans.

• 47:05Speaker 07

  Bad players.

• 47:06Steven Rinella?

  Iranians. And he wanted to get a look. And he said, boys, bring me up. Cause he felt that he could feel something wasn't right. And he stuck his hat out, head up out of there to look out that hatch and the wind took it.

• 47:18Speaker 07

  Yep. And you found it.

• 47:20Steven Rinella?

  And then he saw that enemy ship and just got the, the, I'm sure there's probably some kind of machine gun mounted on top of that sub and just like.

• 47:31Speaker 07

  Yeah, I can see it. I can see it. I can see it happening.

• 47:36Steven Rinella?

  And now that hat's mine.

• 47:40Steven Rinella?

  All right, James, thanks for coming on, buddy.

• 47:41Speaker 04

  Yeah, thank you.

• 47:42Steven Rinella?

  Okay, send over your friend. Our last and final interview with today's youth. So y'all know what's coming.

• 47:50Steven Rinella?

  Kai Yelson.

• 47:52Speaker 07

  Yelchin.

• 47:53Steven Rinella?

  Say it again?

• 47:54Speaker 07

  Yelchin.

• 47:55Steven Rinella?

  Yelchin.

• 47:55Speaker 07

  Yelchin.

• 47:56Steven Rinella?

  Kai, your father was not born in America.

• 47:58Speaker 07

  Nope, born in Turkey.

• 48:00Steven Rinella?

  Okay. And he, and he came to America with not a high level of familiarity with the American sporting traditions.

• 48:06Speaker 07

  Not at all.

• 48:09Speaker 07

  No such thing as hunting overseas in Turkey.

• 48:11Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, but probably a little fishing though.

• 48:13Speaker 07

  Not too sure about that.

• 48:14Steven Rinella?

  Move your mic closer to your face.

• 48:17Speaker 07

  Gotta be a little bit of fishing just about everywhere.

• 48:20Steven Rinella?

  So, so however your, I, I mean, I know your parents. I'm friendly with your parents. Your parents are great parents. They did a great job with you. I love you. You're a great kid. I enjoy every minute I spend with you.

• 48:29Speaker 07

  Thank you.

• 48:29Steven Rinella?

  Um, how has it been, um, how, how has your parents received you becoming, uh, being, getting into fishing and hunting and all that when it wasn't something that they were super familiar with?

• 48:42Speaker 07

  Um, I think my mom was more of me pro going out hunting and fishing, cause her dad was a huge hunter. Like I took his gun over, hit a few rods that are broken, but my dad had none of that, no experience of going out hunting, fishing, any of that. So he was a little bit skeptical about it. But once I brought home.

• 49:00Speaker 04

  The, you know, deer, you know, fish, all that stuff. It's just been amazing. He's been cooking all of it. Getting into some steaks.

• 49:07Steven Rinella?

  So they weren't squeamish at all about eating the wild game or anything?

• 49:10Speaker 04

  No, my dad's, he, he doesn't, he says he doesn't like doing it himself. So I think he wasn't too mad about me doing it.

• 49:20Steven Rinella?

  Yep. But when Kai got his first deer, his father came over. And we got it all processed up. His father came over to check in on the whole situation and find out what was going on and then, and then, and then they cooked a bunch of deer. Yeah.

• 49:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, still got a bunch left.

• 49:34Steven Rinella?

  Great. Uh, and you, you anticipate that they'll like the fish?

• 49:38Speaker 04

  I think so.

• 49:39Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Move your mic closer to your face. What you want it to be is, is like, like a finger off. Now you're getting there. Yep. Uh, what was some of the highlights of your, your, your week fishing?

• 49:51Speaker 04

  I think catching a link caught on my first day. It's probably one of my.

• 49:55Steven Rinella?

  Right off the bat.

• 49:56Speaker 04

  Yeah. Cause I've been told, you know, people take weeks to catch one of those.

• 50:00Steven Rinella?

  And it's because of the slot limit.

• 50:02Speaker 04

  Yeah. And then take one day to catch yellow eye. Inverse for you? Yeah.

• 50:06Steven Rinella?

  Yep. He pulled it up and that sucker was like thirty and an eighth. Right in the slot.

• 50:12Speaker 04

  Very close.

• 50:13Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, right in the slot.

• 50:15Speaker 04

  Reeling in that link caught with Matt today was pretty fun too.

• 50:18Steven Rinella?

  A big one we had to let go. Yeah, that was cool.

• 50:20Speaker 04

  But, and you know, just hanging out here with everyone, meeting everyone. It's been pretty fun.

• 50:25Steven Rinella?

  All right, man. You like the food?

• 50:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, love it.

• 50:27Steven Rinella?

  Eating live fish?

• 50:28Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:30Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 50:31Steven Rinella?

  All right. Well, thanks for coming on.

• 50:32Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 50:33Steven Rinella?

  Oh, uh, tell us about your sporting activities. Oh, you're a basketball player.

• 50:36Speaker 04

  Yep. I've been through a bunch of different sports. You know, I did soccer, swimming, basketball, you know, all of the above. But been focused on basketball a lot recently. I did football two years, but then I quit that because duck season's coming. So.

• 50:51Steven Rinella?

  Um, and you don't, you don't anticipate, like, you're not trying to be like a college basketball?

• 50:56Speaker 04

  No, not at all. I don't, I'm not looking for it. What position are you playing? I've been put at all. I'm probably more of a big than a guard though. Cause there's not a lot of big kids in our team. So I have to kind of fill that spot.

• 51:08Steven Rinella?

  As a tall kid?

• 51:09Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 51:10Steven Rinella?

  God.

• 51:11Speaker 04

  Not really my thing, but you know, as long as I'm out there, I don't really care what I'm doing.

• 51:15Steven Rinella?

  And you're gonna play again this year?

• 51:17Speaker 04

  Yeah. Hopefully varsity.

• 51:18Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. And then, does, is that like the kind of deal? Like the cliche is that the football player, like the, the, the, the girl, girls like football players.

• 51:30Speaker 04

  Um.

• 51:31Steven Rinella?

  Do you find that to be true as a high schooler?

• 51:35Speaker 04

  When I was little, I'd watch movies of high schools and I'd see all the jocks and I would think that. But nowadays it's kind of not really like that.

• 51:43Steven Rinella?

  So, so, so women have a place in their heart for a basketball player?

• 51:46Speaker 04

  Um, not so sure about that either, but.

• 51:49Steven Rinella?

  What do they like these days? Hunters? Fishermen?

• 51:53Speaker 04

  I mean, they'll go for anyone at this point.

• 52:01Steven Rinella?

  Thanks for coming on the show, Kai.

• 52:02Speaker 04

  Thank you for having me.

• 52:04Steven Rinella?

  I especially like the part where you had the in-depth thoughts about the girls.

• 52:08Speaker 04

  Always.

• 52:09Steven Rinella?

  Real ladies, man. But real quick, you guys these days have your own little vernacular. There's, there's a, there's a stage of a relationship. I, this is the main thing I ask these guys about because it's so puzzling to me. A relationship has a stage called talking to.

• 52:27Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 52:28Steven Rinella?

  Can you explain for people that are older?

• 52:32Speaker 04

  It's kind of like meeting, when you meet them for the first time and you get to know them, that kind of stage.

• 52:40Steven Rinella?

  But what would have been the equivalent before they called it talking to?

• 52:44Speaker 04

  I remember talking to you about this a ways back. You called it, you guys were seeing someone. Is that what you called it?

• 52:50Steven Rinella?

  People used to say I'm seeing someone. And it meant like, definitely not like your girlfriend, boyfriend deal, but you were.

• 52:58Speaker 04

  I was like friends with benefits? Yeah.

• 53:00Steven Rinella?

  No, it's like, like, it was like, it was, it was very early stage.

• 53:04Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's, that's exactly what talking to is.

• 53:07Steven Rinella?

  So you don't ask, you don't, you just, you don't verbalize to a girl that you're talking to her?

• 53:12Speaker 04

  No, it kind of just happens like.

• 53:14Steven Rinella?

  You'd never say like, I would like to be talking to you?

• 53:16Speaker 04

  No, no, no. You don't ask that. It's kind of.

• 53:19Steven Rinella?

  Hey, are you, you like, hey, you wanna talk?

• 53:23Speaker 04

  Cause.

• 53:24Steven Rinella?

  Hey, I'm talking to you.

• 53:25Speaker 04

  Yeah. Like I go up to someone and say, I'm talking to this girl right here.

• 53:28Steven Rinella?

  So you, but you get a feeling that you're talking.

• 53:31Speaker 04

  It's kind of, you can kind of tell after either the first you hang out if this is gonna go somewhere or not. So it's kind of implied that if it does, that you're talking.

• 53:39Steven Rinella?

  Okay. And then, but then the next step, then you would formalize it.

• 53:42Speaker 04

  Yeah. With a, you know, sign if you want to.

• 53:45Steven Rinella?

  Do you, so where, uh, do you have a girlfriend? Jimmy's girlfriend is formalized.

• 53:49Speaker 04

  Yeah, they're, they're a thing.

• 53:51Steven Rinella?

  Oh, so you got a formal girlfriend, Jimmy? He has a formal girlfriend. Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah, no, I like her. I told her one day, I would rather these two die than her be inconvenienced.

• 54:03Speaker 04

  Late till the bell to school. Let's die.

• 54:07Steven Rinella?

  I like that girl a lot. She's great. So where, where are you? Are you single? You got a girl or are you talking to someone?

• 54:15Speaker 04

  I'm in the early stages.

• 54:16Steven Rinella?

  Gotcha. You're talking. Early talk.

• 54:18Speaker 04

  Seeing someone.

• 54:20Steven Rinella?

  Well, you, but hold on, you're early talk right now?

• 54:23Speaker 04

  Is that a different stage? No, I'm just, I'm in the talk.

• 54:27Steven Rinella?

  But you haven't talked about talking.

• 54:29Speaker 04

  No, not talked about talk.

• 54:31Steven Rinella?

  So if you asked her, would she say, I'm talking to someone? Yeah. How do you know that she knows? That's a great question.

• 54:37Speaker 04

  That is true.

• 54:38Steven Rinella?

  Is she, is she right now somewhere saying she's talking to you or would she be like, I'm what? No, I'm not.

• 54:45Speaker 04

  I'm not sure how that works. Cause I think. You ask, are we talking? You kind of just hope that they are like, you know, have enough respect to say, like, yeah, I'm not, I'm, you don't say I'm talking to someone, but you don't say I'm taking either.

• 55:00Steven Rinella?

  Do you ever worry, we're not gonna go on about this all night, but like, do you ever worry? That she doesn't even know you're talking and here you are talking about talking to her and she doesn't know that the talk is happening?

• 55:15Speaker 04

  Could be. But then there's always another girl to talk to.

• 55:22Speaker 04

  Not saying there's a list, but there's always someone else to talk to. Well, you should throw that you're a deep dropper now into your repertoire. Talk.

• 55:30Steven Rinella?

  Oh, yeah. No, you know what? This kid, all the kid, I had four, how many kids were on my boat today?

• 55:37Speaker 04

  Four?

• 55:37Steven Rinella?

  No, I had three. My entire deep drop session, they were all three. I'm not kidding. From, from before I began to after I quit, they were all asleep in the boat.

• 55:47Speaker 04

  I woke up a sheet times to you deep dropping.

• 55:52Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 55:54Steven Rinella?

  Didn't offer a hand.

• 55:56Speaker 04

  I was knocked out.

• 55:57Steven Rinella?

  Yeah. Yeah. All right. Well, thanks for coming on, Kyle.

• 56:00Speaker 04

  Thank you.

• 56:01Steven Rinella?

  Appreciate it, man.

• 56:02Speaker 04

  Of course.

• 56:04Speaker 03

  Nine one one, what's your emergency?

• 56:08Speaker 03

  Please help us. They're everywhere. We think they're murder hornets.

• 56:12Speaker 05

  Nine one one Nashville returns. It's a homicide detective down here. Three bodies on the ground. With emergencies of biblical proportions. I will send swarms upon you and upon your people. That's one of the plagues for Bible. And somebody's unleashing them on Nashville.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  Brian Phillipich wants nine one one Nashville. All new Thursdays on ABC, next day on Hulu. Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 57:04Speaker 02

  Breathe in and reset with Lincoln Rejuvenate. An available multi-sensory feature in the 2027 Lincoln Navigator SUV. Experience the luxurious massage, visuals, and sense to help you relax in the driver's seat. It's your time for a reset. Visit lincoln.com to learn more. Lincoln Rejuvenate does not operate unless the vehicle is in park. When the vehicle is off or if any doors open, do not use the feature in a closed garage or in other enclosed areas. See owner's manual for important operating instructions. Lincoln and Navigator trademarks of Ford or its affiliates. All rights reserved.

• 57:35Steven Rinella?

  Onto the news, the actual news.

• 57:40Steven Rinella?

  Um, oh, this is a little bit of your news because, because this is something the guy wrote in. About TSS. Here's a deal that's interesting. The other day, my wife comes in the house all worked up.

• 57:54Steven Rinella?

  Seth's checking on something. She comes in the house all worked up because someone's flying a drone over the house.

• 58:01Steven Rinella?

  And I was gonna shoot the drone, but then it was gone.

• 58:06Steven Rinella?

  Someone was saying, if they stop making TSS for turkey hunters.

• 58:12Steven Rinella?

  They, there now is anti-drone TSS. From European manufacturers.

• 58:20Steven Rinella?

  A, an anti-drone load. Okay. So a load designed.

• 58:23Speaker 05

  This to me.

• 58:24Steven Rinella?

  What's that?

• 58:25Speaker 05

  Explain this to me.

• 58:25Steven Rinella?

  Okay. If you bought a shotgun load for drones, they load it with number seven tungsten.

• 58:33Steven Rinella?

  Five shots for a hundred bucks.

• 58:36Speaker 05

  So it's a box of turkey shot?

• 58:37Steven Rinella?

  It's a tungsten drone.

• 58:39Speaker 04

  That's all it is.

• 58:40Steven Rinella?

  Twelve gauge tungsten drone, two and three quarter inch casing. Okay. One and an eighth. So a drone round has one and an eighth ounce tungsten. One and an eighth ounce of tungsten shot. A turkey load, standard TSS load, one and three quarters ounce. Okay. Um. A, a turk, a drone round, two and three quarter, your standard turkey round, three inch. So it's a little shorter, a little less shot. Your typical drone round? Muzzle velocity, thirteen twenty-nine feet per second. A turkey load, twelve hundred feet per second.

• 59:26Steven Rinella?

  The pellet count on a drone round, two hundred and eleven pellets on a turkey round, three thirty.

• 59:36Steven Rinella?

  Now what?

• 59:36Speaker 07

  Why is tungsten better for drones than lead?

• 59:39Steven Rinella?

  Probably all the same reasons. Flies faster.

• 59:42Speaker 07

  Sure, yeah, yeah. Yeah.

• 59:45Steven Rinella?

  Or not should they fly, sorry, ho- holds, you know.

• 59:47Speaker 07

  Right.

• 59:48Steven Rinella?

  Heavier.

• 59:48Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 59:50Steven Rinella?

  Better penetrator.

• 59:54Steven Rinella?

  Drone rounds.

• 59:55Speaker 07

  Might, turkey hunters might have to start looking into drone rounds when things get tough. Yeah.

• 1:00:00Steven Rinella?

  Here's another interesting news bit. So you, you know, um.

• 1:00:06Steven Rinella?

  In Canada, Alberta. Opened up a thing they call, in 2025, they opened this up. This is a very interesting program. They opened up a program called the Wildlife Responder Program.

• 1:00:24Steven Rinella?

  Where it allows an Alberta resident to apply for an opportunity to respond to problem wildlife issues throughout the province.

• 1:00:34Steven Rinella?

  They opened the program for elk and grizzlies.

• 1:00:41Steven Rinella?

  So a guy wrote in here. Who applied for the program.

• 1:00:48Steven Rinella?

  Got a call. And went out and got a problem grizzly.

• 1:00:53Speaker 07

  That would never fly in the United States, man. Yeah.

• 1:00:56Steven Rinella?

  Got a prob- he got a problem grizzly.

• 1:01:00Speaker 07

  It'd be great if they could do it here, but it would just never fly.

• 1:01:05Steven Rinella?

  It's a great idea.

• 1:01:06Speaker 07

  I want it, I'd like to know if they're like escorted by a fishing game official when they're doing it, or they just go.

• 1:01:12Steven Rinella?

  I don't believe so, man. I don't believe so. You can apply for a zone. Okay, it's open for elk or grizzlies. The Alberta's broken into three zones. Applicants apply for a zone. Okay?

• 1:01:26Steven Rinella?

  It's a true lottery draw.

• 1:01:31Steven Rinella?

  But if you're a successful applicant, the requirement is you gotta be on 24 hour notice.

• 1:01:38Speaker 07

  So that's, uh, right now, that would be the, basically the only opportunity to get a grizzly in Canada, correct?

• 1:01:45Steven Rinella?

  Like through that. No, B C banned their grizzly.

• 1:01:47Speaker 07

  Oh, it was B C. Okay, I got you.

• 1:01:48Steven Rinella?

  Yep. So you get a call that some guy's got a problem bear. You got 24 hours to get over there and instead, because think about the alternative, like what they do, like what they do in my neighborhood. When there's a problem bear, they send a game warden out and he's got the barrel traps and all that. Barrel traps them and they euthanize them and throw them in the dump.

• 1:02:06Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:02:07Steven Rinella?

  If it's a black bear.

• 1:02:08Speaker 07

  Yeah. Yeah, give the opportunity to a hunter.

• 1:02:10Steven Rinella?

  Like imagine you call him, be like, hey, hurry up.

• 1:02:12Speaker 04

  Yep. I'm curious, Brody, you made a good point. Like, is there a game warden that goes out with them? How are they IDing the problem? Grizzly bear, how do they know which ones which?

• 1:02:21Steven Rinella?

  I'm sure that the game warden gets involved to determine that there actually is a problem.

• 1:02:25Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's a lot different than going and shooting, you know, some elk that are raiding a haystack, you know?

• 1:02:32Steven Rinella?

  Here's another news story. This is a sad, this is when the news show takes a sad turn. Cornell bans wild game processing in dorms. What, what a long and sordid story this is. So.

• 1:02:42Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:02:43Steven Rinella?

  What I like about the story, this is in the New York Times, what I like about the story is all the quotes from the hunter are pulled from our podcast interview with the hunter.

• 1:02:50Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:02:52Steven Rinella?

  And it talks about our podcast in, in the New York Times article about the situation.

• 1:02:58Steven Rinella?

  So, some, I, I put this headline up on social media and some jackoff was like. They should have never been gloating about it. It would never be an issue if they weren't gloating about it. They, that's not what made it an issue.

• 1:03:11Speaker 07

  No. No.

• 1:03:12Steven Rinella?

  That them gloating about it didn't, it was an issue long before anybody said a word about it. What happened was these two guys at Cornell.

• 1:03:22Steven Rinella?

  Went out and we interviewed them, one of them. They went out bear hunting and got a bear. They looked at the rules. They, they, they thought about going to friends, didn't work out. They looked at the rules and realized there's not a rule, like you can, you can prepare food in the, in like the dormitory kitchen. They went to the dormitory kitchen, got all their stuff, got a tarp and everything, kept it all clean, went to the dormitory kitchen and processed their bear. A bunch of students then, a bunch of whiny kids had a little shit fit and they called the cops and they called the university people. The, the game warden said, they didn't do anything wrong. They had a, they killed the bear illegally. They had a permit. It's not against the rule to butcher a bear at Cornell. Nothing happened to them.

• 1:04:06Steven Rinella?

  Cornell waited appreciable amount of time and now the new student handbook says, no cutting up. No processing game animals in the dormitory kitchen. The spokesperson for, this is what really gets my goat. It's not so much the rule. It's not so much the rule. What gets my goat is that the spokesperson said, bring it to a processor.

• 1:04:29Speaker 07

  Hmm.

• 1:04:31Steven Rinella?

  No.

• 1:04:35Steven Rinella?

  Make a, make a area for processing.

• 1:04:38Speaker 07

  Sure. Yeah.

• 1:04:39Steven Rinella?

  I still think of these kids as American heroes.

• 1:04:42Speaker 07

  Yep. No, that, that's too bad. Yeah. Go to Penn State.

• 1:04:48Steven Rinella?

  You know that, they, they let you process there?

• 1:04:51Speaker 07

  I mean, they're, they're pretty friendly, that stuff. At least they used to be. Yeah, they used to be.

• 1:04:55Steven Rinella?

  A comment, here, here's a comment from the New York Times comment section. Bear meat is exceedingly nasty. Only fools or starving people eat bears. Same with dog. Same with venison and elk. Beef, pork and chicken make up the holy trinity of meat. You don't need to eat any other flesh unless you can't afford one of those three. And don't talk to me about fish and seafood. Bears are much better than that yucky stuff. As a matter of fact, beans are better than the holy trinity of meats.

• 1:05:30Speaker 07

  That's a comment.

• 1:05:31Speaker 04

  Not a big meat eater fan, that guy.

• 1:05:36Steven Rinella?

  So that's all over. I thought about, you know, I was, I'm, I'm out of the game. I already went to school and did all that. I'm not going back to school. I was deeply offended.

• 1:05:46Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's.

• 1:05:47Steven Rinella?

  And I, I called for a boycott. I called for a boycott at Cornell, not that that would have any impact on anything. And it was a joke when I said that, but still.

• 1:05:55Speaker 07

  Yeah, it's too bad.

• 1:05:56Steven Rinella?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:56Speaker 07

  There's some couple of good kids.

• 1:05:58Steven Rinella?

  Cause for a minute, they were the coolest school in the country.

• 1:06:03Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:06:04Steven Rinella?

  They were the coolest school in the country.

• 1:06:06Speaker 07

  You gonna keep using that bird app?

• 1:06:08Steven Rinella?

  I'm still gonna use my Merlin app. I still got friends, I still count the Cornell people among my friends. They still make the one, the great, like, you know, one of the top five greatest apps ever made.

• 1:06:19Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 1:06:20Steven Rinella?

  Being like, it's like up there with OnX, you know?

• 1:06:24Steven Rinella?

  Merlin.

• 1:06:24Speaker 07

  The people who made that app though probably. Wouldn't agree with that either.

• 1:06:30Steven Rinella?

  No, well, some of the people who made that app, I know that some people that worked on that app are hunters.

• 1:06:34Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:06:36Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 1:06:36Steven Rinella?

  So.

• 1:06:37Speaker 04

  Maybe they should be connected and the next bear can be scanned at the Cornell lab of ornithology.

• 1:06:42Speaker 07

  There you go.

• 1:06:43Steven Rinella?

  That's a good idea. Okay, from there, we're gonna go into, we're gonna close the show out. We're gonna go and do, this is gonna be the last news segment on the show. We're gonna do our, we're, we're gonna talk about, um. An avian botulism outbreak that is killing thousands of ducks. Here's more.

• 1:07:03Steven Rinella?

  Okay, right now, we're joined by Jeff McCreary, who's the director of operations for the Western region of Ducks Unlimited. Um, we're gonna be talking about something that's going on with, with an avian botulism outbreak.

• 1:07:18Steven Rinella?

  That is, uh, killed somewhere around 10,000 ducks this year. Um, and where this is happening is the Klamath Basin. Jeff, do you mind explaining to people? Um, what is the Klamath Basin and, and what does it mean to ducks?

• 1:07:39Speaker 07

  Yeah, Steve, the Klamath Basin is one of the most important areas for waterfowl in North America. Is essentially the neck of the hourglass for the Pacific Flyway from birds coming from the prairies in Alaska down to California. And it serves every part of the life cycle for birds from production, migration, wintering and molting.

• 1:08:01Steven Rinella?

  And then what is, uh, how, how many, how many ducks utilize that area? Is there a way to take a stab at that?

• 1:08:07Speaker 07

  Sure, and not as many as they're used to. In the 1950s, they counted 3 million pintails just on one of the, one part of the wildlife refuges, the Tule Lake Refuge up there. There's 3 million pintails. There's not 3 million pintails alive today on the planet.

• 1:08:23Steven Rinella?

  Oh, wow.

• 1:08:24Speaker 07

  I would say, yeah, it's been a big, it's been a huge fall from the highs, uh, way back in, uh, the last part of the 1900s there, but.

• 1:08:33Speaker 07

  Approximately 75% of all waterfowl in North America.

• 1:08:37Speaker 05

  Use or in the Pacific Flyway, sorry, use the Klamath Basin and the Central Valley or Great Salt Lake at one point during their life cycle. So it's critically important for just a huge number of Pacific Flyway population.

• 1:08:53Steven Rinella?

  Okay, now, what is, what is avian botulism? Like, when I think of the word botulism, I think of the, in the old days, if you didn't properly can veg, like, if you were home canning, that was your risk, that you would screw up a home canning job and, and, and

• 1:09:15Steven Rinella?

  kill your family with botulism. But, but what is avian botulism? How does it, how is it living in the water?

• 1:09:21Speaker 05

  It's very similar to the same bacteria that you'll find when you don't can your food, Ray. Uh, but avian botulism is a bacteria that lives in soils. It, uh, proliferates in shallow, warm water and high temperatures, which is exactly what we're seeing in the two refuges right now.

• 1:09:40Steven Rinella?

  Okay.

• 1:09:41Speaker 05

  Botulism in and of itself doesn't kill birds, but it has a neurotoxin that gets released when the birds ingest, uh, let's say larvae or, uh, grubs that are carrying this bacteria. And when the neurotoxin gets to a certain threshold, it causes a paralytic effect on these birds. So what happens is the birds slowly and sometimes very rapidly start to be paralyzed and their neck starts to droop and they can't hold their neck up. And their head falls in the water and they drown. But they're not dead directly from botulism, but the secondary effects of the neurotoxin.

• 1:10:17Steven Rinella?

  Oh, no kidding. Okay.

• 1:10:18Speaker 05

  Yeah, it's horrible.

• 1:10:19Steven Rinella?

  But it's, but it's naturally occurring?

• 1:10:21Speaker 05

  Absolutely. It's naturally, it happens every year in the Klamath Basin. It happens all over the Intermountain West. We've had massive die-offs in the early nineties in Great Salt Lake. There's a million birds that died there from a botulism outbreak. So it's a naturally occurring thing, but in the Klamath Basin, it's largely preventable.

• 1:10:41Steven Rinella?

  And then it's bad, it got bad this year because, and you already alluded to this, it got bad this year because water levels are low and the water is hot.

• 1:10:51Speaker 05

  Absolutely. That's what's going on right now. So everywhere across the West, if your listeners are thinking about what they're going to be doing this fall, it's going to be hot and dry. There was almost no snowpack in the West and Klamath was exactly the same. There was very little, if any, snowpack on the ground, great spring rain, lots of great wetlands, lots of great productivity from a waterfall perspective. But that water's all done. The snow was not releasing the drowned water and it's slow, so we're running out of water.

• 1:11:18Steven Rinella?

  And, and these, this, this approximate 10,000 ducks that died, when did this die off? When did you start seeing evidence of this die-off?

• 1:11:27Speaker 05

  We started seeing this evidence about a month ago or so. They started finding the first few birds, which is actually about maybe three weeks earlier than when we typically start seeing dead ducks up there, which is about now. Um, and as the temperatures are increasing, the water levels are dropping, the number of birds that we're estimating are dying each day continues to increase. And at some point, it's going double. You had 100 last, yesterday you have 300 today. So we're, the cumulative estimate's about 10,000, maybe possibly more.

• 1:11:59Steven Rinella?

  Okay, so this is, this is happening, it's still happening. We're not talking about a thing that was going on and, and we're not talking about old news here.

• 1:12:08Speaker 05

  It, it, and no, it's not. And it's, it's getting to a point where it's going to be really critical as, when you think about exponential growth. Uh, it's doubling again today. I mean, we're, we're talking 100,000 ducklings were produced on these two refuges this year alone. And we've got hundreds of thousands of other birds that are migrating into these wetlands. And when they, they arrive, they molt. And so you've got 100,000 ducklings that can't really fly. You've got a couple hundred thousand other birds that are losing their flight feathers and can't fly. So they're trapped in the

• 1:12:41Steven Rinella?

  Got it.

• 1:12:41Speaker 05

  Giant wetlands that are producing botulism.

• 1:12:44Steven Rinella?

  Got it. Uh, explain to me what it requires. Um, like, there, there's a remedy or there's a, there's a partial remedy or there's a hope of a remedy. Explain what needs to happen here that would, that would solve this problem or help solve this problem.

• 1:13:02Speaker 05

  Well, the answer's the one thing that's very hard to get, and that's water. And the Klamath Basin, if, if it's not known for amazing waterfowl, amazing waterfowl hunting, it's known for the water complex that arise between endangered species and agriculture and wildlife. So what you can do is you can get more water. You can get water that's coming out of the lake. It's going to be cooler than what's in the wetlands. It's going to be fresher. You can circulate that water. You can make it deeper to cover the mud flats where the botulism is growing. So the recipe is simple, just add water. The complicated thing is whose water are you going to add and how are you going to do that?

• 1:13:40Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, yeah. And, and tell me about that. What is, how do you do it?

• 1:13:45Speaker 05

  Well, there's, uh, why this is even a problem is because we're, the, the West, if, if, for those of us who are Westerners, we've noticed over the last 30 years, snowpack is getting smaller, it's evaporating quicker. There's essentially a drying trend that's happening in the Western United States and Klamath is no different than anywhere else. The challenge is, is that there's demands on water from endangered fish that have a biological opinion to keep water in the upper lake or to run water down the river. And then the third pot of water that's out there is the agricultural water for that irrigation project. And all three of these pots of water are suffering. However, the Klamath Water Users Association and the irrigation districts, uh, are working with NGOs,

• 1:14:29Speaker 05

  are working with tribes and agencies to find a way where we can be creative and get past the conflict that's out there and get on towards collaboration. Because right now, everybody's suffering. Fish are suffering, ducks are suffering, people are suffering because of the conflict. And really, the only way out is collaboration. And water users are proposing a flow-through concept where we would take some of these limited water supplies that are still there, run them through the irrigation project, down into the wetlands, raise the water, circulate the water, cool the water, and then we would pump it back out into the river. You're removing nitri, you're removing all the nitrogen and phosphorus loading nets in the water from the upper lake. You're recharging the groundwater and you're helping to save hundreds of thousands of ducks,

• 1:15:14Speaker 05

  the local economy, endangered species. It's this amazing idea for collaboration and we just need a little bit of water to do it.

• 1:15:23Steven Rinella?

  And then on, on that formula where you're, you're pulling water out of a reserve system, using it to increase water in the wetland, moving it to the river system where it's going to be beneficial to salmon, you know, as they come up for, uh, spawning runs, what, what does it do for the people that are using that water to irrigate crops?

• 1:15:47Speaker 05

  That's the really challenging thing here. And agriculture is suffering. So they're getting, they're getting about 63% of their, um, uh, promised allotment from the Bureau of Reclamation. And so what they're proposing to do is they're proposing to take this water and use 100% of this water for this flow-through concept, for the environment, for the, for the ducks, for the wetlands, for the fish, as a example of leadership to change the paradigm from conflict to collaboration. So they're suffering, but they're still willing to do it because in the long run, if we don't help recover these, uh, fish

• 1:16:30Speaker 05

  that are really dominating how water is driven, we're never going to be able to recover these wetlands. We're never going to be able to stop this botulism cycle and we're not going to be able to have healthy communities and healthy, uh, economies. And so water users are really stepping up and taking the leadership approach of doing something different and finding a collaborative solution versus a, a conflict.

• 1:16:51Steven Rinella?

  What is the, what is the entity that represents water users? So like, you're not going out and striking a deal with every farmer um, about their, their water. They must have a, a collective of sorts? What, what is that?

• 1:17:07Speaker 05

  That's the Klamath Water Users Association. So they represent the primary, uh, or all the water districts that are in and associated with the Klamath project. There's three main ones, Klamath Irrigation District, the Tulley Lake Irrigation District, and the Klamath Drainage District are the, are the biggest ones within there. And the water users represent them and as well as some other smaller districts.

• 1:17:29Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, so if it, if, if this water users group is recognizing the dire situation and they're allowing, they're, they're agreeing to, in this emergency situation, to let water go and let it go for wildlife, what, uh, what does come of their, of, of their issue? Like, what does come of the crops? Is there a, is there a, is there a sacrifice on crop output? I mean, there has to be, right?

• 1:17:57Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure. And, you know, they, there's an allocation that they're given in April by the Bureau of Reclamation about how much water is going to be available this year. And so they've already made their planting plan. The crops are planting. Uh, we're going into harvest time right now. So essentially, they've already made their decisions about how much or how they're going to use the limited water that they have. So this water isn't going to necessarily help directly on, on the crops that are in the ground. And so that's why they're able to, because they've already made, they've already done the sacrifice. They're able to do this type of innovative approach.

• 1:18:32Steven Rinella?

  Understood. Now, let's, let's jump down the road.

• 1:18:38Steven Rinella?

  Um, like you said, we're looking at long-term trends here, right? This is not, this is not an anomaly. Is what's happening this year?

• 1:18:48Steven Rinella?

  And the sacrifice you're talking about and the collaboration you're talking about is is it applicable next year or is next year just becomes its own question all over again?

• 1:18:59Speaker 05

  Well, you know, there's, there's, that's a great question. When I think about conservation, I think about a couple of things. I think about community and I think about leadership. And to do any kind of conservation of the Klamath Basin, it requires essentially every, everybody, everything is connected to everything else. The politics, the economy, the social, the natural resources, they're all driven by this drop of water and everything is connected to that. And if we don't have broad agreement about a path forward with the entire community, we're never going to change the cycle that we're on. But in order to engage that community, you have to have leadership. Somebody has to be doing something a little bit different in order to inspire others to do something similar again. And that's what's happening

• 1:19:41Speaker 05

  this year is water users is doing something that they've never done before. They're committed to use this water for a hundred percent of these other purposes, not for agriculture. That is leadership and that is setting a model that we want our tribal partners and our agency partners to also emulate to next year. Because without them, without those partners, without the agencies and without the tribes agreeing and collaborating on how to make this work, it's not going to be, it's not going to be possible. But something has to be different. Something has to be that spark that changes the past and creates a new future. And that's what's happening this year and that's what's significant.

• 1:20:22Speaker 05

  And, and that's been a really a huge focus of Ducks Unlimited over the next last six years is that we've really tried to create an environment through extensive relationship building with the agencies, with irrigation users, water users, with the tribes to create an environment in which this little spark can, can grow and become a flame and, and happen. And that's happening this year. And Soys, the president of the Water Users Association, he's really making a big difference through his leadership, bringing these, this community together to help and support this effort.

• 1:20:59Steven Rinella?

  So let's, let's jump from next year back into this year. Do you feel that this action

• 1:21:08Steven Rinella?

  is going to like set up to be successful or make the situation not as dire for ducks as it would otherwise be? Like, do you feel that there's going to be some kind of, that there's the potential for like an immediate remedy right now? Or is that not in the cards for this year?

• 1:21:24Speaker 05

  I think there's a media, I think there's opportunity. I've been, it's a, man, it's a torturous road. It's been a pretty intense last couple of months working on this. But I think that there's a path. I think that there's water available and I think that there's political will to get that water down to the refuges this year. It's, it's still not too late. And I know water users and the agencies and, and all the partners have been really working hard on that. And what is going to drive what happens in the future is what happens this year. And the, the blame that irrigation and agriculture gets a lot is you're just going to take that water for agriculture. We say it's going to the refuge, you're just going to take it. Well, they're saying, no, no, we can prove

• 1:22:08Speaker 05

  up. We can show you all the math. We can show you all the records that we are going to do exactly what we say. And that water is going to go for this flow through purpose. And so everybody's kind of watching that when that water comes, that agriculture sticks to what they said they were going to do and demonstrates the model of success that can be relied upon for next year. And that's what's going to help the future.

• 1:22:31Steven Rinella?

  All right, man. Um, I would love to have you at the end of this season, um, I would love to have you come back on and give kind of a, a, a, a snapshot of what happened and the sequence of events and how it played out. We'd love to hear more about it.

• 1:22:50Speaker 05

  Absolutely. I'm, I'm hopeful.

• 1:22:52Steven Rinella?

  Yeah, well, I, I, I look forward to hearing more about it. Again, joined by Jeff McCreary, the director of operations for the Western region of Ducks Unlimited, talking about the Klamath Basin avian botulism outbreak and the flow through water solution. Again, Jeff's from Ducks Unlimited has been working on this issue. And Jeff, thanks for explaining everything. And man, um, good luck to you and, uh, and, and good luck to the water users and producers and trying to figure out a solution to this issue. I appreciate it.

• 1:23:27Speaker 05

  Absolutely. Thanks for having us on.

• 1:23:28Steven Rinella?

  Thanks, man.

• 1:23:31Steven Rinella?

  All right, ladies and gentlemen, that concludes the special episode of the news show broadcasting from Fish Camp in Southeast Alaska. Tune in next week for the regular normal version of the Meat Eater Podcast, the news show. Thanks for joining.

• 1:24:15Steven Rinella?

  Now more than ever, basketball teams are embracing advanced analytics. Nothing's more popular right now than coming up with a fancy new stat that helps teams gain an edge on

• 1:24:24Speaker 02

  the court. And this season, Bet365 is embracing a fancy concept of its own. Bet $10, get $200. Here's how it works. When new users sign up with Bet365 and place their first $10 bet, they'll get $200 in bonus bets. Fine, maybe it's not that advanced, but an offer this good doesn't have to be. Bet365, where winning is everything. Gambling problem? Call 1-800-GAMBLER or 1-800-MYRESSET. Must be 21 plus and present in a state where Bet365 operates. Please gamble responsibly. Restrictions and TNCs apply. Void where prohibited. Download the app today. Someone once said, everybody's got a plan until they get punched in the mouth. I did. Mike Tyson. Oh, well, Mike Tyson and Boost are here to tell you that your mobile plan is punching

• 1:25:07Speaker 02

  you in the mouth with prices that can knock you out. That's a low blow. Totally. But you can do something about it. You have to punch back. No, Mike, you gotta switch to Boost with a plan that's $25 a month forever. Oh, that's a great plan. Maybe you can do both. Boost Mobile. What's your plan?

• 1:25:26Speaker 03

  We know kids don't hold back and I wouldn't want them to. Get in there, make a mess, slide for home, bring on the stains. I've got OxiClean Versatile Stain Remover. It works on over 100 stains and it's America's number one stain fighter additive brand. It's color safe and chlorine free. So I use it on whites, colors and dark fabrics. And OxiClean isn't just for laundry. Mix it with water for use all around the house, kitchens, bathrooms, and even floors. When my kids go all in, I say, go for it because I've got OxiClean to get the stains out. It's not clean unless it's OxiClean.

• 1:25:57Speaker 00

  This is an iHeart Podcast. Guaranteed Human.