Pod Insights The School of Greatness 74 What a Musical Genius Can Teach You About World Class Music Production (CJ Baran Reveals All) About this episode He lived 20 ft. from me the whole time... Before he spent his 20th birthday he used social media to leverage a record deal. As a teenager he opened for Jusin Bieber and Miley Cyrus. To many, he achieved the height of fame and fortune. But something was missing... Find out the rest of the story at at www.lewishowes.com/74 Get more from Lewis! Get my New York Times Bestselling book, Make Money Easy! Get The Greatness Mindset audiobook on SpotifyText Lewis AIYouTubeInstagramWebsiteTiktokFacebookX
Transcript Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.
0:00 Lewis Howes? This is episode number 74 with CJ Barron.
0:07 Lewis Howes? Welcome to the School of Greatness. My name is Lewis Howes, a former pro athlete turned lifestyle entrepreneur. And each week we bring you an inspiring person or message to help you discover how to unlock your inner greatness. Thanks for spending some time with me today. Now let the class begin.
0:43 Lewis Howes? What is up all the greats out there? Thanks so much for tuning in today. I've got a very special guest. My man, Mr. CJ Barron, who's actually my next door neighbor, who is one of the most talented young producers, music producers out there right now, literally blowing it up with some of the biggest musicians and artists out there and creating some amazing work. I'm very excited about having him on. And I've got some fun stories. We jam late nights. He literally lives 20 feet away from me in West Hollywood in our condo building. And I'll tell the story more about how we connected.
1:23 Lewis Howes? When we jump into this interview, but I am back. Thanks for all the notes, the messages, all of the emails, the tweets, the pictures on Instagram for following me over the last three weeks when I was down in Brazil and Uruguay, playing with the USA national team. Again, a lot of you know, it's my dream to be an Olympian. And it's my dream to represent my country and continue to pursue my athletic pursuits for as long as I can. And I had a great time down in Brazil and Uruguay, training and competing, getting to play against Brazil, Uruguay, Mexico, Greenland. And it was just an awesome experience, getting to play with my teammates, get down there and represent my country. So thanks everyone for.
2:10 Lewis Howes? Uh, you know, the, the two, three week hiatus from the interviews and from the podcast. A lot of you have been requesting, when are they coming back? So we're finally back and I'm going to be giving you guys lots of great content. Uh, here on out, two, three episodes a week and we're going to be really taking it to the next level with the guests. And this one again is with CJ Baron. Super pumped about this. We're going to dive in and talk about how he really launched his career at such a young age. He was in a band when he was 15, got signed by a major record label, was touring around the country with Miley Cyrus and Justin Bieber. And then realized that he, uh, didn't want to do that anymore. And he wanted to be more of a producer. So we really talk about how he got,
2:50 Lewis Howes? uh, his start as a producer, his, his method for creating art and for creating music and how he conceptualizes it. Uh, with these artists and, uh, what he's kind of doing to take his business and brand to the next level. So let's go ahead and dive in. Again, thanks so much for tuning in to this episode with the one and only CJ Baron.
3:25 Lewis Howes? What is up everyone? Thanks again for coming on the School of Greatness podcast. I've got a special guest in the house. He's actually the neighbor to my house. Literally lives 20 feet away from me. I feel like we've got a baller hall. We do. It's a baller hall. We've got my man CJ Baron in the house right now. What's up CJ? What's going on? And we've got a, you know, we've got another person across the hall from us, uh, Keely, who was former Miss Teen USA. And we've got some like old vets in the world in here who are like, just got cool old stories. Like you don't know what they did. Absolutely inappropriate stories. What happened on the roof sauna pool? In our building back in the seventies.
4:04 Lewis Howes? And I'm very excited. It's interesting. I moved into this place on Doheny in West Hollywood about a year ago, and I'm actually moving out tonight for six months while there's construction happening. CJ lived through the construction.
4:17 Speaker 01 I lived through it.
4:18 Lewis Howes? I don't know how you did it. It was miserable for like the last six months. And for the first six months living here, I never once saw you. Maybe like once briefly I saw you, but I didn't know who you were.
4:31 Speaker 01 The ghost.
4:31 Lewis Howes? Yeah, the ghost next door. All I heard was loud music always coming from his apartment, his condo. And eventually, like six months in, I finally meet you. I don't even remember how we met. I mean, in the elevator or the hallway, yeah, we started chatting. And I started learning all about CJ and what he is up to in his life and was blown away at this kid's talent. He's only 24, seems like he's 30, and has a lifetime of experience already with everything you've been up to. So I'm super pumped that you're on the show.
5:04 Speaker 01 Thanks for having me, man.
5:05 Lewis Howes? I'm excited to rap more with you. We just had a late night jam session last night, like a creative artistic orgasm of conversation, where I try to go over to CJ's once a month or something and learn about all the new things he's up to because it's so interesting. And I want to talk about something you're working on now, then we're going to dive back into kind of like your history. But you're doing this really cool creative project, and let me know if we can talk about it.
5:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's fine.
5:33 Lewis Howes? What's the name of it now?
5:34 Speaker 01 So it's called Wolf in the Wonder Show.
5:36 Lewis Howes? Uh huh.
5:36 Speaker 01 It's definitely a strange project. Think Mike Snow meets MGMT living in a Tim Burton film.
5:44 Lewis Howes? Hmm, interesting. Interesting. Now, what is it going to be about?
5:48 Speaker 01 So, I mean, in a nutshell, the story is guy falls in love in New York City, heart gets broken, New York City completely freezes over, and then the rest of it is his kind of journey back to defrost the city when he finds new love. That's in a nutshell, the story. It goes way deeper and crazier than that, and there's a wizard.
6:08 Lewis Howes? And the gist of it is it's gonna be a live, uh, moving performance that you're gonna be creating, right? This artistic performance where there's gonna be, uh, art. It's gonna be kind of like an art gallery. We made it sound like it's a haunted house.
6:22 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:23 Lewis Howes? Artistic haunted house with music and art.
6:25 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:26 Lewis Howes? That you walk through and you experience.
6:29 Speaker 01 Yeah.
6:29 Lewis Howes? With a group of people.
6:30 Speaker 01 Each song goes in sequence to the story. And the way we're gonna set it up is almost like a reprise of everything where the string section and piano playing through each of the different pieces that you walk through. Then when you get to the top, it'll be a live performance.
6:43 Lewis Howes? Right. Very cool. I love it. It's gonna be, you're gonna be performing here in LA, right?
6:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. Still, it's still.
6:49 Lewis Howes? In early stages.
6:50 Speaker 01 Infant stages. Yeah.
6:51 Lewis Howes? But it's gonna be one of the coolest things when it comes out. So we were just jamming about this last night for about an hour. Um, now, I wanna talk about your story, cause I think it's really fascinating what you've been able to create for yourself. When you were a teenager, which is not that long ago, a couple of years ago, you were in a band, right? You started a band, uh, called, what was it called? Push Play?
7:11 Speaker 01 Yeah.
7:11 Lewis Howes? Push Play. And I never heard of it, but I, maybe I heard some of the songs, but, um, it was a, a pop teen band, right?
7:18 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like a pop rock band, you know, four kids, like with ridiculous hair. What was I doing? It's Rod Stewart meets like Liza Minnelli and Alan DeGeneres, like electrocuted.
7:28 Lewis Howes? It's amazing. I'm gonna post a picture on the show notes. So make sure y'all checks it out. Uh, but how did this band, you know, you guys did some pretty big things. You were, you were young kids in New York City or Long Island, right?
7:40 Speaker 01 Long Island, yeah.
7:40 Lewis Howes? Long Island. And, you know, there's a picture of you in the Macy's Day Parade. I think you told me you opened up for like, uh, Bieber or Miley Cyrus or some, some pretty big names back in the day.
7:49 Speaker 01 I started the band, uh, when I was 15. We kinda like ran as chorus. We got signed when we were 16 and 17. Did that, like, kinda did some, some touring with Miley and with Bieber. It was fun, you know? But it was over by the time I was 18.
8:04 Lewis Howes? Really?
8:04 Speaker 01 And we were dropped from Sony. And that's when I was like, okay, well, I love writing. I love producing. I need to just do this. And then I just kind of tried to teach myself.
8:14 Lewis Howes? You didn't really like performing as much.
8:16 Speaker 01 Actually, I I've always loved performing.
8:18 Lewis Howes? Really?
8:18 Speaker 01 But I love having a home base more. I I just don't like to tour.
8:22 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it's a lot of hassle.
8:23 Speaker 01 It's just a whole, it's a whole just different thing. I like to have a home base, like a nook.
8:27 Lewis Howes? Yeah, you're definitely more of like a, an introverted, like creative mind, I I find.
8:31 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:32 Lewis Howes? From connecting with you and, you know, you're always in your place, just like till four AM, working, grinding. Um, so I could definitely see how you like that. But how did you start this band in the first place? Like you were fifteen?
8:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
8:45 Lewis Howes? And you went to a, a, a school for music, is that right?
8:47 Speaker 01 No, no, I was actually never went to school for music at all. It was just, uh, like four kids who could play instruments like, okay. And I was just kind of having fun in the beginning. And then I remember we, at the time, back in the good old days, MySpace ruled. And we just kind of went hard on that promotion. And I remember even like going to other band shows and like handing out promo cards, which now I'm kind of completely against. But at the time, it was great for what we were trying to do.
9:15 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
9:16 Speaker 01 And, you know, just got us to that next level to get a, a deal with Sony.
9:20 Lewis Howes? So how big of an audience did you grow on MySpace?
9:23 Speaker 01 Um, we were, I don't even remember, man, to be honest. It just, I remember we got to number one on the, on the chart, the MySpace chart.
9:29 Lewis Howes? Really?
9:30 Speaker 01 We got reached out to by Atlantic and Sony and a couple other people.
9:34 Lewis Howes? So number one on the MySpace, they had their own music label?
9:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was like a little chart they had, like based on views and how much activity was happening.
9:41 Lewis Howes? Of like the best songs or the best bands?
9:43 Speaker 01 It was actually just like how many, like, how, how much traffic was being driven to each?
9:47 Lewis Howes? So you had the number one?
9:48 Speaker 01 Yeah, for like a one week. We were like really high up.
9:51 Lewis Howes? Whoa.
9:51 Speaker 01 And we got to one, like at the very end of the week.
9:53 Lewis Howes? That's a pretty big deal back in, for MySpace.
9:55 Speaker 01 Back then, I mean, there's a lot of bands that, that hit number one, but it was, it was definitely, it was definitely exciting for us. We were like sixteen at the time, or actually, no, fifteen at the time. Wow, this is cool.
10:03 Lewis Howes? So how did you even?
10:04 Speaker 01 Get girls like this?
10:05 Lewis Howes? Yeah, right. So how did you get it to number one? Like, what was your strategy?
10:09 Speaker 01 Honestly, I remember this. I remember the minute I'd get home from school, I would sit down at the computer, all of us, on different computers. And we would just start reaching out to people, like hitting the Mac and then starting conversations with everyone.
10:20 Lewis Howes? One by one?
10:21 Speaker 01 One by one. And then the creating like a little bit of a, not army, but just, I guess, just fan base, really.
10:27 Lewis Howes? Like a little street team?
10:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, like a street team. That's a great word for it. And. It's great for that kind of thing, but now, like I said, like with other projects, I would never do that again.
10:36 Lewis Howes? Sure.
10:36 Speaker 01 Cause people grow attached. It becomes a thing. And if you, if you don't answer back, then they're like, oh, why aren't you answering me back? And it's just a, it gets to become a bit of a nightmare.
10:44 Lewis Howes? So you guys were promoting and reaching out one by one, trying to get people to listen to the, the links on MySpace and listen to your music. And then they were kind of sharing it with their friends or talking about it as well? Or what were they doing?
10:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, it just kind of grew that way.
10:56 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
10:57 Speaker 01 And I remember we did the first slew of shows we did, um, were these high school shows.
11:02 Lewis Howes? Really?
11:02 Speaker 01 Where we would just play on like a Friday night at a high school in the auditorium.
11:06 Lewis Howes? And kids would come and?
11:07 Speaker 01 Yeah, and kids would come and just hang out. It started out so small, like 15 people each other.
11:11 Lewis Howes? Wow.
11:11 Speaker 01 And we were like, yeah, double digits. Um, and yeah, then it kind of grew from there.
11:17 Lewis Howes? Wow.
11:17 Speaker 01 Just organically.
11:18 Lewis Howes? So how did you even like practice? Were you guys have like a garage in your parents' houses?
11:23 Speaker 01 Garage and like all of our parents' houses. Yeah, that's, we would just alternate.
11:26 Lewis Howes? Was it pretty much every day after school you got together and you played?
11:29 Speaker 01 Every single day.
11:30 Lewis Howes? And you, were you pretty much writing a lot of the songs or were you guys writing them together?
11:33 Speaker 01 We did some songs that we wrote together, some songs that I wrote by myself, which is kind of all over the place, but.
11:37 Lewis Howes? Wow. And then, so you know, for me, I went to go play sports every day, but you went to go play music and play with your bandmates.
11:44 Speaker 01 Uh, mainly because I was just so completely unathletic. Like I, I remember I tried out for the football team and I got cut like immediately.
11:52 Lewis Howes? Wow.
11:52 Speaker 01 And I was like, you know what? I'm gonna, I'm gonna play guitar.
11:56 Lewis Howes? Let me get girls a different way.
11:57 Speaker 01 Yeah, I gotta figure out how I'm gonna do this.
12:01 Lewis Howes? That's awesome, man. So basically one year after you kind of launched on MySpace, hit number one, right then, who found you and signed you?
12:09 Speaker 01 So we were taking meetings with a bunch of labels at the time.
12:11 Lewis Howes? Wow.
12:11 Speaker 01 I've been with Atlantic and we ended up going with wind up records through Sony. It's an imprint on Sony.
12:17 Lewis Howes? Sure.
12:17 Speaker 01 And they were great. I mean, really great team. They, they pushed one of our songs to radio. It, it got to number, I think it peaked at 36.
12:24 Lewis Howes? Wow.
12:24 Speaker 01 On American radio.
12:25 Lewis Howes? That's great.
12:26 Speaker 01 And yeah, but I mean, it feels like it was a dream. Like it just, it happened.
12:29 Lewis Howes? So quick, right?
12:30 Speaker 01 So quick. And like, I don't even think about it anymore. I did, I don't even really remember it to be honest. It was crazy.
12:35 Lewis Howes? Cause you were 15 when you started, then the 16 you got signed, then 17 or 18 you got dropped, right?
12:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, it was like right when I got out of high school. Um, I deferred from college and we did like our, our, it's our second like tour. And
12:47 Lewis Howes? That's when you started going around with Bieber and Miley and kind of like doing the bigger tour.
12:51 Speaker 01 Yeah, and that was like a real tour. Yeah. And that was when.
12:54 Lewis Howes? You had like a tour bus and the whole deal.
12:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, yeah, the whole bus, like sleeping on that, which I miss, actually. That's the only thing about tour I miss.
12:59 Lewis Howes? The bus.
13:00 Speaker 01 There's something about being in a bus in a bunk that's kind of like a coffin that I, and I know this sounds weird, but the way the bus moves, it just knocks you out.
13:09 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
13:10 Speaker 01 I had the best sleeps of my life.
13:11 Lewis Howes? Wow.
13:12 Speaker 01 On a tour bus.
13:13 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
13:13 Speaker 01 Yeah.
13:14 Lewis Howes? And was it like your parents go with you or is it more?
13:15 Speaker 01 No, we were all 18 at that time. So we were just on our own.
13:19 Lewis Howes? And they were all down for it?
13:20 Speaker 01 Yeah, everyone, everyone was down. There was one tour manager who was kind of like the, like the dad.
13:25 Lewis Howes? The house parent.
13:25 Speaker 01 On the road, who was like a terrible dad.
13:27 Lewis Howes? Shop room.
13:28 Speaker 01 Letting us drink and.
13:29 Lewis Howes? No.
13:30 Speaker 01 We had fun. I had my own college experience.
13:33 Lewis Howes? Right, right. So that lasted for about like a few months or six months on the road.
13:37 Speaker 01 That's like three months.
13:38 Lewis Howes? Three months.
13:38 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then we got back and then did another three months on the road, um, just on our own, just a headlining tour and like was small, small, small, small clubs.
13:46 Lewis Howes? Five hundred people.
13:47 Speaker 01 Yeah, like 500 to a thousand cap rooms and every night, just all over the place from.
13:52 Lewis Howes? To try to keep building momentum and create another record or whatever.
13:55 Speaker 01 Yeah, that was just to kind of just promote the record that we had and we were stopping off at radio stations. That's when, at the time, the song was called Midnight Romeo. And that's what we were.
14:04 Lewis Howes? Midnight Romeo?
14:05 Speaker 01 Midnight Romeo. That was a song that was at radio. So we were just kind of going to all the stations and promoting it and doing like the 6 a.m. recordings at the stations to do the acoustic.
14:14 Lewis Howes? Sure, sure.
14:16 Speaker 01 The whole thing.
14:16 Lewis Howes? That's cool. We'll link that in the, if we can find it anywhere online, we'll link it in the show notes as well.
14:20 Speaker 01 Good luck with that.
14:22 Lewis Howes? I'll find somewhere in SoundCloud, remix version.
14:27 Lewis Howes? That's cool. Um, all right. So you had your kind of like, uh, musical experience on the road when you're a teenager. And you kind of got a taste for like what the business was like.
14:37 Speaker 01 Yeah.
14:38 Lewis Howes? And you put in all your hours working with the band. You kind of made your break. Got signed. You got a taste of what that was like. You probably didn't make too much at that level.
14:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, it was just like the initial advance.
14:49 Lewis Howes? Sure.
14:50 Speaker 01 Which was, which was that. So I was just, at that time I was 19 and had just been dropped like from my first major label deal.
14:57 Lewis Howes? But most people don't get a major label deal like ever. So 19 is pretty cool.
15:02 Speaker 01 So I remember just being like, okay, well, I could go to college. But I know what I want to do. I want to be producing. I want to be writing songs. I know a lot of people now in California, if I just moved out there. So I just.
15:17 Lewis Howes? From touring from the connections, the band.
15:20 Speaker 01 A lot of, we did our record in LA, so I met a lot of people here.
15:23 Lewis Howes? Right.
15:23 Speaker 01 And I just moved straight out here and I started apprenticing for the producer that did my band.
15:28 Lewis Howes? Really?
15:29 Speaker 01 At the time, yeah. So his name is Matt Squier.
15:32 Lewis Howes? Matt Squier?
15:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, he's done anything from like Panic at the Disco to Boys Like Girls. 303, a lot of like those scene bands at that time.
15:39 Lewis Howes? Sure.
15:40 Speaker 01 So I came out and I worked for him for a while. He's a really good dude. He was a great mentor.
15:44 Lewis Howes? So you basically would just throw you projects or say, hey, edit this song or create me a hook for this or write some lyrics for this and then see what you can do.
15:51 Speaker 01 Exactly, that kind of thing. It was mainly track work at that time. I wasn't really into writing sessions. I was just, you know, building tracks, making synth hooks, things like that.
16:00 Lewis Howes? Making cool sounds and.
16:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's just getting weird, basically. It's getting weird in my place. And then, uh, at that time, so I was living in Santa Monica then. And then I moved, I signed, uh, my first publishing deal to Pulse.
16:11 Lewis Howes? How old were you?
16:13 Speaker 01 I was 21.
16:15 Lewis Howes? So two years later, after being.
16:17 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's a year and a half, year and a half. Year and a half later, I, I met with Scott Cutler and Josh Abraham, who own Pulse. And I remember I was a little bit resilient to, to go, go forth with the signing. I didn't know if I wanted to like give it up. Cause to me it was like, my publishing was like my second virginity.
16:34 Lewis Howes? It's like your life.
16:35 Speaker 01 I was like, I'm not, I'm not giving this up right now. I was like, I don't know. And everyone was like, no, just hold on to it, man. But I, they knocked on my door one night at 10 PM.
16:44 Lewis Howes? In Santa Monica?
16:44 Speaker 01 No, here.
16:45 Lewis Howes? No way.
16:45 Speaker 01 Yeah, it's like when I first moved. And they knocked on, they were at Soho House. And they knocked on my door, they're like, you have to sign. I was like, what?
16:53 Lewis Howes? Oh my god.
16:53 Speaker 01 And I love, in a, in a good way though, it was just like, like.
16:55 Lewis Howes? They're like, we want you.
16:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, you'd be making a great decision if you join the team. And right then and there, I was like, okay, that's ballsy. I love it.
17:01 Lewis Howes? Wow.
17:02 Speaker 01 And I signed with them.
17:04 Lewis Howes? Wow, okay. And so are you allowed to talk about what the deal is or what it was or?
17:09 Speaker 01 Yeah, I mean, it was just.
17:10 Lewis Howes? Publishing deal where they.
17:11 Speaker 01 The way publishing deals work, I mean, it's different for everybody, but it's usually based on M D R C. So you get X amount of money as an advance and then you have to fulfill 300. I mean, it's different for everyone. For me, it was 300%. Um, per term and then that would get you to the next advance and blah, blah, blah. On and on and on. So 300%, say I write a song with three people and it's split down the middle or you know, three ways. It's 33.3% of my 300% and that only happens, that only counts if the song is cut by a major label artist and released.
17:43 Lewis Howes? Sure, geez.
17:44 Speaker 01 Which is the trick. Cause like a lot of things will get cut and then just never released and they will just sit on your hard drive.
17:49 Lewis Howes? Well, I know I was in your place last night and just saw like a list of a hundred songs that you worked on in the last five years that aren't on radio right now, right? They're just sitting there.
17:58 Speaker 01 Literally, I mean, it's cut with the artists and like, you know, supposed to come out. You know, you don't know.
18:02 Lewis Howes? And can you talk about some of the artists that you've worked with, that you've cut stuff for that hasn't come out, some of the more recognized names?
18:09 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, I did a song, I did some production work on a song for One Direction that ended up getting leaked.
18:16 Lewis Howes? Oh, so then it didn't go on the record?
18:18 Speaker 01 So it didn't go on the record. Yeah. It got leaked and I think it's on YouTube now. It's like six million views or something crazy like that. And I was like, ugh. So them, um, a lot of stuff with like Carly Rae. I mean, that stuff's gonna come out.
18:29 Lewis Howes? Yeah. So there's stuff that's like waiting.
18:32 Speaker 01 Yeah. It's like a lot of it is just like pipeline.
18:34 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
18:34 Speaker 01 It's like you just keep filling up the pipeline and then eventually it's just gonna spill out.
18:38 Lewis Howes? It's gonna come out eventually.
18:38 Speaker 01 Yeah.
18:39 Lewis Howes? That's cool.
18:39 Speaker 01 It's a long pipe.
18:40 Lewis Howes? But for like, you know, a couple of years, you have stuff waiting, just sitting there. That's a finished, that's an awesome song and it's not out yet.
18:47 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, I've had songs that I've had on my hard drive for two years now that just got cut.
18:53 Lewis Howes? Really?
18:53 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I forget about them. And like luckily like Pulse has all that stuff in the finger like, uh, because I wrote this Christmas song as a joke, I guess, not this past Christmas, the Christmas before, like when I first signed with them, but nothing of it, have not even, have not even looked at that song.
19:11 Lewis Howes? Right.
19:12 Speaker 01 And, uh, it's now gonna be in this new like Tina Fey movie, this Christmas movie coming out. Yeah. It's coming Christmas and I just. Totally forgot about it. That's what, that's what happens like.
19:21 Lewis Howes? And so the publishing team, they're really kind of shopping the songs for you and, and kind of getting the placement. Either with the artists or with the movies or the radio, you know, radio, whatever it may be, right?
19:31 Speaker 01 Exactly.
19:31 Lewis Howes? It's kind of their job. So it's kind of nice to have a team that supports you and gets the stuff out there where you can just be creative and work on what you do best.
19:38 Speaker 01 Yeah. Pulse is amazing too. Really, really, really good.
19:41 Lewis Howes? Nice. So you've been with them for five years now? Four?
19:44 Speaker 01 No, I mean, I say I was 21, like 20, so three years.
19:48 Lewis Howes? Wow. It's a pretty good experience.
19:50 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, they are awesome. Everybody there. So cool. The environment's amazing. It's based in Silver Lake.
19:55 Lewis Howes? Right.
19:55 Speaker 01 And they have like this really tranquil office slash studio space. It's really nice.
20:00 Lewis Howes? That's cool. Very cool. And they're sending you, they're sending you artists to work with too, right? Okay. So they're sending you artists, but you also work with another producer that you work with as well. And how does that work with Pulse?
20:14 Speaker 01 So I have a joint venture with, with another producer. So it's basically they kind of split the publishing. And I work with him on whatever. So he'll do a project, a block out for a week with one artist.
20:26 Lewis Howes? Right.
20:26 Speaker 01 And then everybody on the team will work for a week, get songs going. And then if any of them are great and the label likes them and he likes them and the artist likes them, then
20:37 Lewis Howes? Right.
20:37 Speaker 01 we'll all finish them together.
20:38 Lewis Howes? Sure.
20:39 Speaker 01 You know, that kind of scenario.
20:40 Lewis Howes? Yeah. And this is, uh, with the producer, his name is Max, right?
20:43 Speaker 01 Yes.
20:44 Lewis Howes? Yeah. And how did you get connected with Max originally to, to work on some of this? Cause he works with some of the biggest names out there. But how did you get connected originally?
20:52 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, he's, he's been my idol since I was 13.
20:55 Lewis Howes? Wow.
20:55 Speaker 01 Songwriting and producing idol. Um, and I was working on a band, Sign a Republic at the time. And their A and R was friends with his manager. And I guess he was looking for LA bass track guys that also do top line, which is melody and lyric. And she introduced me to him like straight up on an email.
21:15 Lewis Howes? Wow.
21:16 Speaker 01 And I heard nothing for three weeks. I didn't expect anything. I was like, this is like way, I'm way over my head.
21:19 Lewis Howes? Did you ask for an introduction or she just made the intro?
21:21 Speaker 01 She, she asked me if I'd be interested and I was like, wow, yeah.
21:24 Lewis Howes? Of course.
21:25 Speaker 01 I'm definitely. And, uh, and yeah, so I just, I sent a, a private SoundCloud link of like stuff that I was working on, tracks and weirdness. And I heard nothing for three weeks. Then I forgot about it. I was like, all right, whatever. And then I got a call like three weeks later from a, an unknown number. And it was his manager. He's like, can you come to Sunset Marquis tomorrow and at noon to meet? Met with him, chatted like the coolest dude ever. Then I'm leaving, I'm in the parking lot. I, I don't really know exactly how it went. I was like, oh, maybe that was just like a meet. I don't know what's gonna happen.
21:57 Lewis Howes? Right.
21:57 Speaker 01 And he, uh, called me back and he was like, I want you to come back tomorrow at noon, you know, to meet with, with Max. And I met with him, we, we chatted for like two hours just about his whole history. I was just so, I was just like all over. I was like, I know exactly what you did in 2000, like that crazy Nick Carter song that nobody heard about, like, like the melody, the, and all of that.
22:21 Lewis Howes? That's hilarious.
22:21 Speaker 01 So, yeah.
22:23 Lewis Howes? Wow. Okay. So you basically after that meeting, he was like, I want to work with you. Like, let's try it out.
22:28 Speaker 01 Yeah, we, we tried it out. We, we did a couple of things together and I worked on some track stuff.
22:32 Lewis Howes? And he was impressive enough to bring you on.
22:34 Speaker 01 He was like, it makes sense. Like this, this could be cool. And then they, you know, they sorted out a situation between the two of them and that was that.
22:39 Lewis Howes? And what was that like at 20? What were you, 23 then or?
22:42 Speaker 01 23. Yeah.
22:43 Lewis Howes? 23, working with like one of your biggest idols as a producer.
22:47 Speaker 01 I was freaking out. I remember the first time I went into work, I, I think I was like breaking out in hives.
22:51 Lewis Howes? Wow.
22:51 Speaker 01 I was like sweating and then my hard drive didn't turn on. And I was like, oh my God, oh my God, oh my God.
22:55 Lewis Howes? I'm gonna be fired.
22:56 Speaker 01 I'm so done. And then I was like, oh wait, the power switch is off. Damn it.
23:03 Lewis Howes? That's hilarious. And the cool thing about this experience is you really get to work with some awesome, inspiring artists. And like the level of great artists continue to increase for you. You know, the more jobs you work on, you get to grow as an artist yourself. But then that team, his team is trusting you with their artists, which are some of the biggest names. And it's, it's really cool how it's progressing in your. You know.
23:28 Speaker 01 It's been, it's been really, really great. Yeah. I just, I feel like I've only come into, I guess, my own as a producer in the past year, year and a half, max.
23:38 Lewis Howes? And I feel like you're just scratching the surface still.
23:40 Speaker 01 Yeah, me too. I feel like I'm literally.
23:41 Lewis Howes? Five, 10 years, you're gonna be a machine.
23:42 Speaker 01 Yeah. I mean, I just feel like in five, 10 years, I'm gonna look back at stuff I was doing today and be like,
23:46 Lewis Howes? laughing.
23:47 Speaker 01 Terrible.
23:47 Lewis Howes? Yeah. How did that song even make it?
23:49 Speaker 01 Yeah, exactly.
23:51 Lewis Howes? Wow. That's crazy, man. What a, what a life experience at 24 to be where you're at. And to be creating what you're creating with the type of, the caliber of people you're with and it's pretty inspiring.
24:03 Speaker 01 Thank you, man.
24:03 Lewis Howes? It's really cool.
24:04 Speaker 01 I feel like I'm 40, though. I don't feel like I'm 24.
24:06 Lewis Howes? Cause you're in your apartment all day, just grinding away, creating beats.
24:11 Speaker 01 Well, pretty soon I'll have to work just strictly in my apartment, which will be great.
24:14 Lewis Howes? Yeah, it'll be nice.
24:16 Speaker 01 Yeah, I love my apartment, but I gotta, you know, kinda get out.
24:19 Lewis Howes? Yeah. And the cool thing about you, which, correct me if I'm wrong, you have a very unique talent because you can, you write a lot of the songs, you can play a lot of the instruments, like the actual instruments, but you can also just create them on a synthesizer.
24:34 Speaker 01 Right.
24:34 Lewis Howes? All the instruments, you edit the songs, you do like everything that a producer can do, and then a musician can do, a writer can do. And that's like, almost like a triple threat, I would think, right? That's like a, I don't know, a label's dream to have someone to be able to do all those things together.
24:50 Speaker 01 I feel like that's kinda what's happening now, just in the music business. Like, it's almost becoming the, the norm. Like, you're expected to be able to engineer your sessions, you know, edit a vocal properly, play every instrument, record every instrument, you know, and, and produce. It's like, it's like, it's become expected now.
25:05 Lewis Howes? Really? You can't just be a singer?
25:07 Speaker 01 I mean, you can. There's, there's no rules, but I feel like for producers, you kinda have to.
25:12 Lewis Howes? Do it all.
25:13 Speaker 01 Do it all right, right now, at least in the current.
25:15 Lewis Howes? 10 years ago, you could just be one.
25:17 Speaker 01 Just be awesome at one thing, which I think maybe also is the reason why some of the music in the 80s or even the 90s, like, I don't know, maybe I'm just being biased about it because I love that music, but it just sonically sounds a little bit better, is a little bit cleaner and warmer. Cause you had people that studied their whole lives just strictly learning how to mic up a drum set.
25:34 Lewis Howes? Wow.
25:34 Speaker 01 You know, now it's like, I'm like, oh, you know, it's two inches from the skin, that should be cool.
25:38 Lewis Howes? Right, right. Or you're just using a drum beat machine.
25:40 Speaker 01 Or I'm just like programming it on my laptop.
25:42 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
25:43 Speaker 01 So it's something like that.
25:44 Lewis Howes? That's crazy, man. That's pretty, I mean, I don't know too many other people that can do what you do. I don't know. Do you have other people that can do everything you do?
25:52 Speaker 01 Um, yeah, there's definitely some producers out there, a bunch of producers that can do. Yeah. It's just ner- like a bunch of like nerds. I'm totally like, I, I, I found myself yesterday morning looking at a page. I was studying the sub frequencies of a bass note. So I could tune the kick drum to it and I looked at the page and I was like, what am I doing? I was like, when did I get so like nerdy?
26:13 Lewis Howes? You're like, why am I chasing girls right now?
26:14 Speaker 01 Yeah. I'm looking at sub frequencies of this kick drum and then, and I'm spending an hour tuning it.
26:19 Lewis Howes? Wow. When you want to master your craft, that's what you do. You get it. You pay attention to the details. So that's why you've gotten to where you are and that's why you're so successful. And that's why you're going to continue to be successful, which I think is really cool. I think it's a, you know, as a, someone who wishes they were on Glee.
26:37 Lewis Howes? Secretly wishes I was on Glee. I love like the whole singing and the music stuff. My, uh, my brother is, uh, arguably the number one jazz violinist in the world. So he tours all around and played with Les Paul for 10 years in, in Times Square. And, uh, you know, travels all around the world. My sister's extremely talented singer songwriter. My parents were opera majors and I really can't do any of that stuff. I'm more of the athlete of the family, but I appreciate the art for what it is. And really admire people that can create artistic music in the way that you do or any type of music. So I just think it's such a gift and a talent of what you have and my brother and, you know, parents have. And it's like, that's why I always come over to CJ's place late at night. I'm like, dude, what have you been creating? I want to hear all this stuff. I think it's like the coolest thing in the world because I secretly want to be on Glee.
27:22 Lewis Howes? So.
27:23 Speaker 01 That's so funny. We literally have the opposite, um, like family setup. Nobody in my family, except for my grandpa is in music or has played music.
27:31 Lewis Howes? They're all like jocks.
27:32 Speaker 01 Yeah, athletic. I'm just so not, I played basketball like terribly. And then everything else just like, I might've been gonna go there.
27:38 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
27:39 Speaker 01 So bad.
27:39 Lewis Howes? You got cut from the football team.
27:40 Speaker 01 Oh, yeah. I got cut from every team. I think I got cut from the track team. Like, I don't even know how that's possible, but I did.
27:46 Lewis Howes? Well, it's good to hear you got cut because you've got a gift for this. And it's cool because, you know, CJ's not really online too much. You can go to, I'll have some links in here for his Twitter account, Instagram account. Make sure to follow him over there and I'll put up images of his crazy Rod Stewart hair days when he was 15, 16 in the, in the boy band. But you can also check out, I guess you have a page over at Poolsrecordings.com, I think. But there's not really much music of yours online. Is that right? Do you even have a SoundCloud with your, your music?
28:18 Speaker 01 No, I just, I kinda like to keep under the radar. Like all my favorite producers are just, they, they stay under the radar.
28:23 Lewis Howes? Yeah. All your best stuff is on your hard drive.
28:26 Speaker 01 It's all my hard drive.
28:27 Lewis Howes? It's crazy, man. It's so crazy. But it's like, some of the songs are starting to come out, right?
28:32 Speaker 01 Yeah.
28:32 Lewis Howes? There's a few things.
28:33 Speaker 01 Circling out now.
28:33 Lewis Howes? You did some stuff with Cody Simpson, right? And he's kind of a young, up and coming star and.
28:39 Speaker 01 Yeah. So did his last single that came out and, you know, we, he's in Europe right now touring, but he'll be back in two weeks and we're gonna kind of finish up what we've been doing on his record.
28:48 Lewis Howes? Right.
28:49 Speaker 01 So that's been, it's been really fun.
28:50 Lewis Howes? It's very cool. And you're working with some other big names who are, you know, you said Carly Rae Jepsen, right? Now you're working with her, putting out her next record, right? The whole, pretty much the whole thing or most of it?
28:59 Speaker 01 Dude, I have a few songs on it. Yeah.
29:01 Lewis Howes? Very cool.
29:01 Speaker 01 Which would be fun. She's so talented.
29:03 Lewis Howes? Is she?
29:04 Speaker 01 Yeah, like ridiculous.
29:05 Lewis Howes? She's not just a one hit wonder?
29:06 Speaker 01 I don't think so at all. I mean, I think that song was massive. It was genius. But she's so good lyrically, like in the studio, vocally, everything just.
29:14 Lewis Howes? Really?
29:15 Speaker 01 Yeah. And as a person. It's awesome.
29:16 Lewis Howes? Wow. Very cool. Who's the most talented artist you've worked with so far?
29:21 Speaker 01 Hmm, that's tough.
29:24 Lewis Howes? Or maybe a couple of people that you're like, wow, this person's actually not just what their image is like in the world, but they're actually really musically talented or so gifted that it was like, whoa, it kind of shocked you that you're like around them.
29:35 Speaker 01 Yeah. Well, I mean, Adam Lambert was absolutely amazing, vocally, like just, I mean, as you would expect.
29:41 Lewis Howes? Yeah. I heard the song, I heard the song that you, you guys did, obviously the night, but it was like.
29:46 Speaker 01 He's.
29:46 Lewis Howes? This guy's got a voice.
29:47 Speaker 01 He's got a voice and he, he knows what he wants, you know, he, he knows himself, he knows what he is and he just owns it. So he's, he's amazing. Um, I love collaborating with, have you ever met Ben Romans yet?
29:58 Lewis Howes? I don't think so.
29:59 Speaker 01 He's the other half of my crazy weird project thing.
30:01 Lewis Howes? Okay. Yeah, you mentioned him.
30:03 Speaker 01 He used to be in a band called The Click five years ago that was very successful. But he is one of my favorite people to write with as well. He's just crazy musically talented.
30:12 Lewis Howes? Wow.
30:14 Speaker 01 He'll just write a symphony just because he's bored and like score it out and like have all the parts written.
30:20 Lewis Howes? Amazing. That's amazing. Now, tell me what it's like um when you're creating a song from scratch. So when one of the the the people that you're working with is like, okay, here's an artist, here's Adam Lambert, or here's Carly Rae Jepsen, or here's whoever. Like, go. How does it work when you guys get together? How do you craft a song with them? Because you write a lot of the songs with some of these artists. So how does that process actually work?
30:47 Speaker 01 Um, it depends. Every every single song's different. Some songs I might just get inspired by myself and get weird alone at night. And it usually starts on a piano and a loop, like one quick drum loop. And I'll just start scatting. The one thing that always stays the same is I do lyrics last.
31:05 Lewis Howes? Really?
31:06 Speaker 01 Last, always. I never start with, unless it's like one word or one hook that the chorus is gonna be. Or like the concept of the song.
31:13 Lewis Howes? That you have or the artist has.
31:15 Speaker 01 Yeah, whoever it is.
31:16 Lewis Howes? This, here's a cool line or something.
31:17 Speaker 01 Like, oh, let's call this song Cigarette. And then, and then, you know, I'll figure it out. And but it's strictly gibberish. So once the chords are in, then I'll put the loop on with like one drum loop and one instrument, whether it's a pad, a guitar, a piano, and then I'll just pace around the room and just sing straight up gibberish.
31:33 Lewis Howes? Like la la la la la.
31:34 Speaker 01 Like, yeah, it just just melodies, just weird melodies. And I have my phone on record and then I'm like, okay, that one was good. I'm like, oh, that one was terrible. And then I'll just kind of piece them apart. And that that's like the first step of it, getting them all in there.
31:45 Lewis Howes? Put the chords down first. Okay. And you come up with the chords yourself. You're kind of like, okay, here's what this could be.
31:50 Speaker 01 Exactly. It's messing around. So it's work in progress. I might change. But that's how it starts. And then the melody is second.
31:56 Lewis Howes? Okay.
31:57 Speaker 01 And once the melody is in there, then that's when I start getting kind of a little bit weird with the math of it, which is, I mean, there are no rules, but I have like certain things that I like to do. Like if the chorus is gonna start on one, then I'm gonna make sure the pre-chorus does not start on one and the verse does not start on one. It starts on the end or on two.
32:15 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
32:16 Speaker 01 And it helps build the energy, especially if like the verse starts on two, the pre-starts on the upbeat, and then the chorus, the first thing to hit on the downbeat, it'll make that chorus erupt.
32:24 Lewis Howes? Wow.
32:25 Speaker 01 A little more strong.
32:26 Lewis Howes? Interesting.
32:27 Speaker 01 Yeah. So I mean, that's just one one little thing that I like to do a lot.
32:30 Lewis Howes? Huh. Now, how did you come up with this kind of method? Was it something you learned from another producer?
32:34 Speaker 01 Yeah, I think just working with a ton of different people, you pick up on little things and.
32:38 Lewis Howes? Is this what other people do as well, like kind of similar?
32:40 Speaker 01 Some people think I'm crazy. Some people are like, you are too formulaic. What are you doing?
32:43 Lewis Howes? Really?
32:44 Speaker 01 Yeah.
32:44 Lewis Howes? Too formulaic? Is that what you said?
32:45 Speaker 01 Yeah. And I don't, I don't, I just don't believe there's any actual like key. I don't think, I don't know. Maybe there is, but I don't have it.
32:54 Lewis Howes? Sure.
32:54 Speaker 01 And I think it's just a bunch of experimentation.
32:56 Lewis Howes? Wow. Interesting. And so after that's done, then you come up with the lyrics?
33:00 Speaker 01 Yeah, then I just fill in the blanks, like Scrabble.
33:02 Lewis Howes? You come up with like the, the, the notes for it. You're like la da la da da?
33:06 Speaker 01 Yeah, la da la da. That could be like, I really want a sandwich or whatever. It could be whatever it is.
33:11 Lewis Howes? Right.
33:11 Speaker 01 And yeah, but it always starts with gibberish melody for me.
33:14 Lewis Howes? Interesting. And then you write the lyrics and you put it all together?
33:17 Speaker 01 Yeah. And then it's just making sure that everything, you know, is phonetically correct and sounds good.
33:22 Lewis Howes? Right. Wow. And it could take a couple of hours or it could take weeks, right?
33:27 Speaker 01 Yeah.
33:28 Lewis Howes? To do one song?
33:28 Speaker 01 I mean, I've, I've spent weeks on songs before.
33:31 Lewis Howes? Really?
33:32 Speaker 01 And like.
33:32 Lewis Howes? And the artist will come with you and just meet with you for the, the whole time pretty much? Or wow, just stuck in the studio?
33:37 Speaker 01 Yeah, generally it's like, it's two days. I usually block out two days per, per song with whoever I'm working with.
33:42 Lewis Howes? Like nine AM to six PM or longer?
33:45 Speaker 01 Um, I usually start like noon and go till whenever, like ten, 11, um, for the first writing day. And the second day, we'll come back.
33:54 Lewis Howes? And then do you come back at night and kind of work on it yourself?
33:56 Speaker 01 Yeah, I always.
33:57 Lewis Howes? That's when you're up till like four AM?
33:58 Speaker 01 Yeah. So I come back and that's when I, I start doing all the editing and like piecing it together. Or I work on other things that I'm way late on.
34:04 Lewis Howes? Right.
34:05 Speaker 01 Cause I'm just behind on everything always at all times.
34:08 Lewis Howes? And then you come back the next day and kind of like try to tighten it up and see, does this work? Let's listen to it again with fresh ears.
34:13 Speaker 01 It's the fresh ear thing. I, I really believe in that.
34:15 Lewis Howes? Wow. Interesting. And so you do this a number of times with a lot of different artists. But you said before, like some of this stuff may not come out ever.
34:23 Speaker 01 Yeah.
34:23 Lewis Howes? Or maybe years?
34:25 Speaker 01 Ever sometimes. I mean, I might, I've plenty of times I've worked with artists and. They've been like, I love this. I can't wait to to put it out. And then it just doesn't come out. Whether there's problems with the label, or the label doesn't like it, or whatever it is, they it just won't come out.
34:37 Lewis Howes? And then they may love it, though, the artist.
34:39 Speaker 01 Yeah, and they may love it, and it might not matter. It's just every every situation's different.
34:43 Lewis Howes? Wow.
34:43 Speaker 01 But yeah, that's happened to me quite a few times.
34:46 Lewis Howes? Wow, that's gotta be really frustrating, though.
34:48 Speaker 01 It is. Yeah, but you've got to keep trucking on it. You can't cerebralize. You just have to just keep moving and don't let anything bother you.
34:53 Lewis Howes? Wow, that's crazy. Now, what's your ultimate dream, then? What's your goal for this business or your life in this business?
35:00 Speaker 01 I just want to keep on doing what I'm doing right now with production and eventually be able to create my own company where I can sign writers and producers to it and then kind of have everything be self sustainable in one.
35:12 Lewis Howes? So you basically want to be, you know, Max at some point where you're kind of like have your own.
35:15 Speaker 01 And that's like the ultimate dream, but.
35:17 Lewis Howes? Where you have like artists coming to you.
35:19 Speaker 01 Yeah.
35:19 Lewis Howes? And then you you work on you have your team working on the initial stuff and you're kind of going in and like, that doesn't sound good. That sounds good. Change this, change that.
35:26 Speaker 01 Exactly.
35:27 Lewis Howes? You're putting together the deals.
35:28 Speaker 01 I just I like having a communal environment on things. And I think I would love to have something like that where not a lot of people, just, you know, two or three people.
35:36 Lewis Howes? That's cool.
35:36 Speaker 01 That also do the same thing and have us all working together and critiquing each other.
35:40 Lewis Howes? That's really cool.
35:41 Speaker 01 Yeah, that's the dream.
35:43 Lewis Howes? I like it. How far away do you think you are? How many years?
35:46 Speaker 01 I have my 10 year plan, so we'll see if that folds out.
35:49 Lewis Howes? There you go. Nice. Very cool, man. Well, I want to wrap it up with the the final question. This is a question I ask all my guests. So you're in good company, but it's what is your definition of greatness?
36:01 Speaker 01 My definition of greatness?
36:02 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
36:03 Speaker 01 I think it's being able to wake up every single morning excited about what you're doing.
36:07 Lewis Howes? Mm hmm.
36:08 Speaker 01 And then go to bed feeling completely content.
36:12 Lewis Howes? There you go.
36:13 Speaker 01 That's it.
36:13 Lewis Howes? I love it. Where can we? Where's the best place to connect with you? Instagram or Twitter?
36:18 Speaker 01 I mean, I rarely use my Twitter. Instagram, I'm on it. I'm trying not to be on it as much.
36:22 Lewis Howes? Yeah.
36:23 Speaker 01 There's only so many plates of spaghetti that you can actually look at before you're losing your mind.
36:28 Lewis Howes? Or selfies.
36:28 Speaker 01 Or selfies. Yeah, exactly. You know, we both love those.
36:32 Lewis Howes? Yeah. So what are you at CJ Barron? Mm hmm. Yep. Okay, cool. I'll link it up in the show notes. Uh CJ, I'll uh, I'll make sure to tell everyone to go watch the uh, the weird art production when it comes out in LA. It may be a few months, it may be a year, who knows? We don't know. But uh, I'll make sure to uh, spread the word. And if people want to listen to any of your music, how can they? Do they just have to wait until something comes out on the radio? Exactly. Follow you on Instagram. Instagram. I usually post about what's coming out. Like the artist you're working with. Yep. You've got pictures with like, you know, Carly Rae in the studio and all these other artists sometimes. So you'll be promoting it, letting people know when stuff comes out. Exactly. Awesome. I appreciate it, man. Thanks so much for having me. Thanks for coming on, bro. Take care.
37:19 Lewis Howes? And I hope you guys enjoyed this episode with CJ. Again, check out the show notes over at LewisHowes.com/74 to uh, see some of the, the cool stuff that CJ has done, what he's working on. Check out the image of his crazy hair from back in the pop band boy days, uh, back when he was a teenager. And uh, learn how you can stay in tune with uh, the cool art project that he has coming up in the future. So we'll have it all over at the show notes over at LewisHowes.com/74. Again, it's a pleasure to be back in the States and recording episodes for this podcast. Thanks to all of you loyal fans for sticking around for a couple of weeks while we uh, didn't have any new
38:01 Lewis Howes? episodes. But make sure if you're just joining us to go ahead and download and listen to some of the past episodes. And again, we've got 74 great episodes from some of the most inspiring men and women all over the world, doing amazing, incredible things. Check them all out over at LewisHowes.com. Please subscribe over on iTunes or check it out over on SoundCloud.com/LouisHowes, over on Stitcher and everywhere you can listen to podcasts online. So thanks so much again for tuning in, everyone. And you know what time it is. It's time to go out there and do something great.
38:52 Speaker 02 From that starting point, I've never forgotten those things. Like you said, you never forget those true things that you stick to, your basic things that, you know, make you successful. And for me, it's that truth, finding that truth, the truth of the moment of where I am at the time. You know, not trying to cater to a certain demographic, you know, not being something I'm not, not driving the truck over ridge and valley, you know, the whole thing, like, there's so many similarities and...
39:27 Speaker 03 What you do need is emotional stability. You have to be able to think independently and you have to be... When you come to a conclusion, you have to really not care what other people say and just follow the facts and follow your reasoning. And that's tough for a lot of people. That part, I think I was just lucky, I was born that way. I think that really is much more important, frankly, than having a few points of IQ or having an extra course or two in school or anything of the sort. You need emotional stability.
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