Youngest Self-Made Female Billionaire Lucy Guo on Money, Success, AI & Building Passes

What if the secret to building wealth wasn’t spending big, but acting broke? Lucy Guo (@guoforit), co-founder of Scale AI, founder of Passes, and the youngest self-made female billionaire, is redefining what it means to win in tech, money, and the creator economy. From her “act broke, stay rich” mindset, to proving people wrong in Silicon Valley, to helping creators build generational wealth, this is the conversation every founder, dreamer, and disruptor needs to hear. Why acting broke is Lucy’s rule for staying rich The truth about being a “billionaire” (and why it’s not cash in the bank) How equity, not cash, creates generational wealth The surprising power of free things (and why Lucy still takes UberX) How she handles haters, trolls, and being called “the party girl of tech” Why proving people wrong has fueled her biggest wins What founders get wrong about raising money and scaling fast How AI will shape the next wave of unicorn companies Why consistency, discipline, and content are the only real creator superpowers This isn’t about chasing trends or titles. It’s about building smarter, betting on yourself, and creating wealth that lasts. ⸻ This episode is sponsored by: ⁠⁠Pique⁠⁠ - Use this link for 20% off. (http://piquelife.com/HSR20) ⁠⸻ ⭐⭐⭐⭐⭐ If you like what you hear, rate, review, and subscribe to Hot Smart Rich, the podcast supporting women who own their worth — in business, wealth, and life. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe on YouTube⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ 💌Own your worth — and build the life you want. Subscribe to the Hot Smart Rich newsletter, the no-BS guide to startup life, consumer brands, and becoming your hottest, smartest, richest self, written by Maggie Sellers. Join 250,000+ women building wealth, confidence, and community on their own terms. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Subscribe here⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ Become an HSR Angel in the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Global HSR WhatsApp⁠⁠⁠⁠ channel⁠! ⸻ Follow Maggie: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tiktok⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Locker⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ShopMy⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Amazon Storefront⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⸻ Follow Lucy & Passes: Instagram ⁠ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 0:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 1:03Speaker 01

  LinkedIn is pretty amazing at helping you grow your small business. We cannot stop your new clients from emailing you at 3 a.m. We can help you sell, market, and hire in one place. We cannot help you be in three places at once. And while we can't help you organize your calendar, LinkedIn can help you land more clients so you have a calendar to organize. Grow your small business on LinkedIn. Learn more at linkedin.com/smallbusiness.

• 1:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  In case you missed it, you're allowed to be hot, smart, and rich. So let's get into it.

• 1:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Lucy Guo, are you ready to get hot, smart, rich? Aren't we already hot, smart, rich? I was so excited for your answer to be like, what is her answer going to be based on who you are? But we're going to start off the episode like we always do. What is the last thing you put on your credit card to buy and the last most expensive thing that you bought?

• 2:07Speaker 02

  The last thing I put on my credit card to buy was actually an Uber X on the way here. And then you said the most expensive thing I've ever bought in a credit card?

• 2:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, last most expensive thing that you've bought.

• 2:16Speaker 02

  Last most expensive thing I bought was a PJ to London.

• 2:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay Lucy, I was so excited about your episode because I feel like you are the definition of hot, smart, rich, which is really like, you aren't put into a box. Like you're so multi-dimensional, you care about so many different things. But obviously, we have to start with the rich part because you are officially the youngest self-made billionaire woman. What does it feel like when someone says that?

• 2:47Speaker 02

  Honestly, it feels like nothing. I feel like that title is changed every year, right? And I actually think it's a good thing that title is changed every year because that's a sign that more female founders are succeeding and that we can continue to support each other by reinvesting in ecosystem. So yeah, I mean, it's cool, I guess, but I'm excited for like that torch to be passed on.

• 3:07Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And you don't really, like, it sounds like you think of yourself as so much more than that. Who is Lucy beyond that title if people are just hearing about you for the first time today?

• 3:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, I honestly think that most people would associate me as just like someone crazy that doesn't really sleep, which I really thank my parents for. My parents need like three to five hours of sleep a night and I definitely think I got that gene where it's like, you know, you don't need to sleep. I have like an obsession with Barry's Bootcamp. I think people associate me with that. People associate me with like loving music. I do think that like my personality is interesting, right? Like I have my skydiving license, my scuba diving license, I ride electric longboards. I am always down for a crazy adventure. I'll go on like a 24-hour trip to Japan just to eat the freshest fish. I like finding life hacks. I love free things. People, yeah.

• 4:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And you're still taking Uber Xs, which I love. Is that part of your mentality? Act broke, stay rich? Can you explain what that means to people that are hearing that for the first time?

• 4:12Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think that when I think about how I spend money, it's like, do I really need these things? Because every single dollar that I spend on something that I don't necessarily need, I could be reinvesting, right? So my mentality is like, if you act broke and like, you're constantly reinvesting your money, that's how you stay rich. There's certain things where, you know, like, if I really, really like a piece of jewelry, I'll get it, but I try typically not to spend money on material things I don't need. So, for example, an Uber Black is not going to get me to a destination any faster. So why would I spend money on an Uber Black instead of an Uber X? Versus, when I do fly private, I actually do the math. It's like, okay, if I'm giving like, a ride to a bunch of friends, like collectively, do we all save money?

• 4:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 4:57Speaker 02

  Even if I am the one covering it, it's fine. Like, in my head, it maths out. And then also, just like, the convenience, so like, okay, I'm saving like, let's call it two to three hours not going through airports. What if I get delayed? That's like, another 10 hours. And like, how much money could I be making with that time?

• 5:14Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It's so interesting, because I think so many people think about their money in such a different way. Have you always thought about money like that, or has that changed as you've succeeded in your career?

• 5:24Speaker 02

  I think I have. In the beginning, when I first made a few million, I would say I probably didn't necessarily think that way, because I was still writing Uber Pools. And my friends were trying to tell me later, like, hey, like, you know, money is time, time is money. You're wasting so much time writing Uber Pools instead of Uber X's. You could be using that time doing something more productive, that overall is better for your business and makes you more money. But I couldn't really wrap my head around, like, why would I pay double when, like, Uber Pools half off?

• 6:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  One of the things I love about you, you talk a lot about living your life in experiments, which I find fascinating, because then you can solve and like, really identify a pattern of like, what worked and what didn't. And you talked about doing this experiment where you were like, when I first had money, I was dressed a certain way, wearing Walmart, wearing Shein, and then I was like, I'm going to experiment with how people treat me when I actually do have money. And it was a completely different shift. Do you think that the title that was blasted everywhere, cover of Forbes, has made people treat you differently now that you are known as the youngest self-made billionaire?

• 6:36Speaker 02

  Honestly, with my friends, not at all, or not even just my friends, but like people that already knew me,

• 6:43Speaker 02

  life is very much so the same, like, nothing has changed there. I would say in terms of new people that I'm meeting, probably, and then my DMs are just slammed. Like, I-

• 6:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  With like love stuff, or with business opportunities, or like-

• 7:00Speaker 02

  I would say like, it's just a mix of both. Like, I have a lot of very cool celebrities that like I probably used to have a crush on, honestly, that I'm now like internet friends with.

• 7:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing. I also have a hat that the girls love that says "Cash Poor Equity Rich", which a lot of people don't understand because they're like building their business, they're putting everything into it, and then there's hopefully gonna be a payoff with equity, but I feel like the world is just waking up to equity, and there's this misunderstanding of people that hear the word billionaire, and they're like, "Oh my god, she has a billion dollars in her bank account." Can you break down to people what it actually means to be a billionaire and the way that you've been talked about in the press, as it relates to like liquidity?

• 7:41Speaker 02

  Yeah, so, most people that have any status as a billionaire, most of their net worth is tied up into assets. Assets can be anything, whether it's stock in a company, it can be art, it can be real estate. But these aren't necessarily liquid. For example, even with real estate and art, you can own a billion dollars worth of items, but are you going to be able to sell that? Also, it's perception, right? Like, you might earn a billion dollars worth of art in Basquiat's, at today's value, but if there's no one willing to buy it, like you may never get liquid.

• 8:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Right.

• 8:15Speaker 02

  And I think that that's, and we see this with like tech company founders, where you know their net worths or their companies shoot to billions of dollars, but at the end of the day, when it's not cash, it can go to zero at any point in time.

• 8:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  When you have the money that you have now, what do you think your relationship has been like with trends? Like as an example, like everyone being obsessed with or mez bags or labubus? Like, are you following that because you now have the opportunity to do that? Or are you like, now that I have it, I don't feel the need to go and chase those trends?

• 8:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I've never really felt the need to chase trends. Like, I actually don't own a bag at all.

• 8:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So true. You walked in with literally keys, a coffee, and now we're wearing these cool sunglasses.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  Yeah, exactly. I love free things. So these sunglasses were free and I was like, oh, amazing. I'll take them.

• 8:59Speaker 02

  It's actually so funny how much I love free things. Like, I saw a pile of lip balm and I don't even wear lip balm in my hotel. And I grabbed and scooped it up and put it in my friend's bag. And she was just like, Lucy, why'd you fill my bag with lip balm? You don't even wear lip balm. And I was like, it's free, though. And like, the bag ended up being filled with like ponchos, lip balm, like mints, etc. Like, everything I could find just because I love free things. But, no, I don't, I don't really feel the need to chase trends at all. Um, I would feel like if I did feel that need ever, it was during my experiment when I first started dressing nice. And I was like, oh my God, let's see how like people would treat me differently. And it was such a switch, like night and day, that I think I became addicted to it for a little bit.

• 9:41Speaker 02

  And I went on like shopping sprees for a few months. Um, then I hit a point where like, this is really stupid. Why am I wasting so much money? And I think at that point also, I like, people just like, I established who I was. So when I switched back to normal clothes, um, it was really whatever. And it'd be funny because I remember I got a dress from like a costume shop for $5. I wore it and I really do believe this is why it, like, you can get away with fakes and whatever, depending on who you are, because everyone thought it was couture. And I'm like, I'm wearing a $5 dress for like a costume shop. This is not couture.

• 10:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But I think that's why I'm so happy for people to listen to this. Because like the people that aren't at that place, right? Like, they can feel confident knowing that like Lucy doesn't feel the need to wear all of these things that we see on social media that you need. One of the things that I've always found really fascinating when we talk about like power and money and femininity in like Silicon Valley is I think when men get a lot of money, it gets associated with power and people respect that and they want to be around it. And I think when women come into a lot of money that they have rightfully earned, a lot of people are like angry or try to tear it down. Do you think that you were prepared for people not to like you once you achieved the success that you did?

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Oh, I saw it starting from when I got the T L fellowship. Like I got the T L fellowship and I had quite literally men in my T L fellow class tell me I only got it because I was a woman. I had a guy tell me I only got my Facebook internship because I was a woman and I was like, "Bro, I went to the number one CS school in the country. You didn't, so stop being salty. You did not get the internship."

• 11:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So crazy. I feel like that's what I get from some of the interviews I've watched of you and I want to hear a little bit more depth to this, but like it feels like that proving people wrong has motivated you. Was there a moment that you can take us back to of like being told you couldn't do something when you were little Lucy or you were like just growing up that has motivated you more so than money has?

• 11:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, I think I was told I couldn't, I wasn't good enough, starting from when I was really young. My brother was just much, much smarter than me in like every single way from an IQ standpoint. He skipped a bunch of grades in math, was taking A P Calc B C in like sixth grade, was doing competitive math, etc. And I just like wasn't, I mean, like he's like a prodigy, right? So I just wasn't that smart. And I think that just like from all angles, my peers telling me that like I wasn't cool and whatnot. I've always just wanted to prove people wrong. I was always a little bit rebellious to the point where, I mean, sorry, Mom and Dad, but like I just enjoyed pissing them off.

• 12:26Speaker 02

  I remember like every time they'd leave, I would just have friends hop over the fence and hang out with them.

• 12:33Speaker 02

  And it got to the point where like I knew like reverse psychology was happening to me, but I just like, I just didn't want to listen to them.

• 12:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You just like kept going and kept your head down? Now that you have this title, has it ever worked against you where it puts you back into that mentality of like being told no?

• 12:50Speaker 02

  I think I'm constantly just trying to like, like even now, right? Like I'm like, okay, everyone's saying, okay, she had like one company, she was lucky, whatnot. And then I felt the need to start a venture fund and prove like, oh, I can do other things too. And that venture fund is doing very, very well. Mostly due to Ramp, so shout out to Karim. I love you. Thank you for letting me put money in it. Biggest mistake was not putting in more money. But yeah, I think I like still feel the need to just prove more to myself. It might not necessarily be like proving people wrong, but like proving more to myself.

• 13:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah. One of the things that I always find so fascinating with people that have achieved success, right? Because like you talk about having failures before and I love that you're like, I pivoted a company if it didn't work within like two weeks, I would just like be on to the next. Do you feel like you still have that same beginner's mindset where like if you were to try something new today and it didn't work out, do you feel like there's more pressure because you are known as now like the Lucy Guo, you know? Like is that fear or like that pressure in you today to just succeed because you already have?

• 13:56Speaker 02

  I definitely think there's a pressure to succeed, but I would absolutely pivot right away if I thought something wasn't working. Like even today, right? Like Passus is doing well, but if I saw an opportunity that to pivot Passus into something that'd be more successful, I would absolutely do it because it's something that I need to do for my invest. Like I've never lost anyone the money. So it's like, okay. Yeah, like it's like if I have the opportunity to be able to like help people make more money. So like let's just say for an example, like we decide, okay, cool. Like actually we should create a creator bank instead and here's why.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  I would pivot resources to that.

• 14:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you have conviction or like, how do you even see those trends? Like if someone's listening to this and is like, I think I have an idea. I think I want to go in this way. Like, how do you initially even start to think about where that opportunity could be?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I mean, I think I evaluate market size first. And I always try to map out from like bottoms up, how to get to like a hundred million dollars a year in revenue. And then based off of that, I look at how feasible it is. So it's like, okay, let's say I'm doing an enterprise business. And that my customer base is companies like between a hundred and 500 employees. And I'm going to charge like five dollars a month per employee. I look at like what, how many companies I would need to hit a hundred million dollars a year in revenue. And then what percentage of companies that is in the grand scheme of things? Like, is it like, I just need to get 0.2% of like the population to use my product? And then I hit the hundred million a year?

• 15:27Speaker 02

  Or do I need to get 50% of it? If it's 50%, that's a really small market. Like, the chances you capture 50% of market is very unlikely. So I do that first. And then if the numbers work out, then I believe in selling a product before you build. So this means going out to companies and, you know, getting LOI signed, et cetera. And if I get enough LOI signed, then I build the product.

• 15:52Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So interesting. I love seeing this out of you because I will say your personal brand that's available to the public is very different than I think like the founder hat that you wear internally every single day. I wanted to say this till later, but I was actually going to say to you, I read that you are like the female Elon Musk. But I actually think you're the tech Dua Lipa because you make everything look like a holiday, even though you're like grinding so hard. How did you decide? Or was it, was it conscious how you decided to build your personal brand to the public? That was different from maybe the personal brand that people know of you as, as like the CEO?

• 16:27Speaker 02

  Uh, I would say it happened by accident, quite literally. I was doing a like LP dinner um for my fund in Miami. And then what happened was my address got leaked. And I was also um helping organize this hackathon in Miami at the same week. Uh, so you know, started the hackathon, founded it, you know, was a judge, brought in engineers, etc. My address got leaked to the engineers. And it was like quite literally during this LP dinner for my venture fund. And I'm just like a nice person and I was like, well, I have no furniture in my house. And people just started showing up like by the hundreds at my house. And I was like, well, okay, fine, you guys can all come in. And then obviously, I mean, it ended up being kind of a party.

• 17:12Speaker 02

  Uh, wasn't meant to be. And next thing I know, the New York Post writes like, you know, Lucy, whoa, Miami is like biggest party girl or something. Oh, my God. I think I just like owned it after.

• 17:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But I think so many people would be afraid of that. And it's so funny because that's like such a tech thing. You like let the market decide what you actually, what your value is or like what they want. The consumer is always right. Was there ever a part of you that was a little nervous when you started to be known as like the party girl? That it was going to detract from your success and what you were actually building?

• 17:42Speaker 02

  I think at that point, I was so used to people detracting from my success anyways. Like, I mean, I think you face it as like a female founder or even like a female engineer, to be honest. All the time that it was just like another blip. I was like, okay, whatever, like people are going to look at this. But at the end, they like people that know me or meet me in real life, they see how disciplined I am, right? Like I am at Barry's at like six, seven AM. I'm in office longer than everyone else. I like, like last night, I was literally working till midnight. And then at midnight, I wanted to go out. I didn't end up going out because uh no one would go out with me. So I just ended up working till like 3 AM, then fell asleep. Um, but yeah, like it's, I think people see in real life, see like where I am at hours of the day. And they do the calculations and realize like at the end, I just don't sleep.

• 18:27Speaker 02

  And that's how I'm able to have so much time to do everything.

• 18:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So when you were building your first company that worked out with Gali I, did you have any sort of personal brand or you were just like not on social media? And it all really started snowballing. Once you had started doing your fund and now passes.

• 18:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, definitely had a personal brand.

• 18:47Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 18:48Speaker 02

  I had a reputation for releasing stuff on Product Hunt. I was Product Hunt Maker of the Year like two years in a row. I won a lot of hackathons, which is how I even got the TF Fellowship. Like I went to like eight to 10 different hackathons and won a prize at like every single one of them. So people, people knew me for sure and I had a lot of fans. I would say actually at that point in time, I had almost no haters. It was pretty much all just fans because I hadn't necessarily been successful yet. It was when like success started hitting, the haters really came through.

• 19:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How do you deal with that?

• 19:21Speaker 02

  Um, I mean, honestly, like for my own mental health, I don't read, like, I've never watched any like podcasts I've done.

• 19:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So you're not going to watch this podcast, Lucy?

• 19:30Speaker 02

  I'm sorry.

• 19:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  This is I'm going to send you a good clip and you're going to be like, I gotta watch it.

• 19:36Speaker 02

  I read clips, I've watched clips because people obviously tag me in clips.

• 19:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 19:40Speaker 02

  But I've never like said I, I don't read any like articles or interviews I've done, et cetera. I don't read comments, like if people are hating on me on the internet, like my mentality in general is that it's actually a good thing that I'm polarizing enough, like I'm being talked about, right?

• 19:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 19:55Speaker 02

  And I think I know me and I have like so many people around me that know me and like love me and like, like I, I don't have negative thoughts in my brain. Like I can't really explain, I don't have negative thoughts in my brain. Like I don't feel the emotion anger.

• 20:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wow.

• 20:12Speaker 02

  Um, for me, it's just like I, I just like keep it out of sight, out of mind.

• 20:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wow, I need to take some of that truly because like I have full Reddit threads about myself and I'm like so just tempted to go in and I think especially when you are in this creator economy world, like for me, the way I think about it sometimes is like the consumer is telling me what they want next. So it's like good to listen to both the positive and the negative to see like what people are saying.

• 20:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I would just have my PR team summarize that that happened, but it makes you feel better. Someone hates me enough that I heard a PI, but they, someone. Is spending a lot of money, I think in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. They created several bots and like made Reddit threats and like bought upvoted like all this hate stuff and bought commented hate stuff.

• 20:58Speaker 02

  People are like, yeah, I'm being boughted all over the internet. Somebody's running ads on like, like low cost ads like India and other countries on me to make me look bad. It's crazy. Like, I don't know what's happening.

• 21:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But to your point, it means that you're doing something right. And I think that is what I love about like people building in public today is they show the good and they show the bad side because then it makes it feel like way less isolating. When you look at founders today who present this idea of like, everything is together, everything is amazing and don't necessarily talk about like the hardness of like the struggle to get there. What do you think is going on in the mentality of someone who acts like that? The founders who just present that like if they're building a seed based company, right? And as you know, any seed based company is like a wild card. You're like, you might have product market fit, but it's like not there yet. And they present like, everything is amazing and this is all rainbows. Like, is that really what's happening behind the scenes?

• 21:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Or like, where is the mentality of that type of founder?

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's absolutely not what's happening behind the scenes. Like, chances are, startups are a roller coaster, right? No matter how well startup is doing, it's going to be a roller coaster because there might be some political drama. Or like, you know, you might lose a contract and you're worried about it. Or you're stressed about like a new contract closing. Like, nothing is ever absolutely perfect.

• 22:22Speaker 01

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• 23:52Speaker 02

  I think what's going on the head of these founders is that they're struggling, but they want to present like everything is going well because they want to raise their next round.

• 23:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Right. And as someone who's raised millions of dollars from venture capitalists, what is the best way that you think someone can ask for money?

• 24:09Speaker 02

  I think what my strategy of fundraising is fundraising when you don't need to raise. And I always approach like the first investor I maybe want to hit and like, hey, like I'd love to get some advice. For my Series A, what I had done is I sent out an investor update because I knew I would get preempted from that investor update, which is exactly what happened, like within minutes, VC funds are contacting me and the raise like accidentally began, right? But I I knew it was going to happen because the update was so good. And that is typically how I would suggest people to fundraise where it's like, you know, if you say you're fundraising, you don't have money yet.

• 24:55Speaker 02

  You're already fighting an uphill battle. But if you act like you don't need the money, even if you need the money, if you act like you don't need money, you ask for advice, or you send a good update, they will approach you and you want them begging to invest in you.

• 25:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I love that.

• 25:09Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 25:10Maggie Sellers Reum?

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• 25:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You just add this to your water to hydrate your body at a cellular level, reduce redness, and smooth out those fine lines. For a limited time, Peak is offering 20% off the Radiant Skin Duo, plus a free starter kit, which includes a rechargeable frother and glass beaker, when you shop with this exclusive link. Peaklife.com/hsr20 for 20% off. That is P-I-Q-U-E life.com/hsr20 for 20% off. You've had a lot of success before you started your newest venture, which is Passes, which I'm obsessed with because it's in the creator economy and it's really trying to empower creators to like truly be entrepreneurs and not have to rely on like brand dollars, which comes and goes very quickly.

• 26:36Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Walk me through your mentality as someone who's achieved so much success when you're like, I'm going to dive back into being like a pre-seed or a seed stage founder and go back on the grind.

• 26:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, it was an interesting decision. So at the time, I was running a venture fund. I had started this program called HF0 where we were a YC competitor, but the difference was that we were living with the founders. And so I was just around so much ambitious energy and you know, the founders are coming to me, asking me about all these questions, et cetera. Like we were essentially incubating companies. I tried to get a founder to work on this idea and no one would. And I think just being around that environment made me want to go start a company again. And I had a friend ask me to be like CEO of his AI company and I just I sat on it for a day and I decided, because I've always optimized for learning and I'm like,

• 27:28Speaker 02

  I know the playbook for this. I want to try something new and something fun and something harder. So that's when I was like, you know what, like, I'm going to go incubate this consumer idea. And here we are.

• 27:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And the creator economy is extremely challenging to build in. Why do you think that is?

• 27:46Speaker 02

  I think a number of reasons. And my answer before is slightly different to my answer now. I would say before, I think the challenge in the creator economy was that you weren't getting the best engineers slash tech people, because people weren't interested in building in the creator economy. Like, when you look at most creator economy apps, they're not tech founders. A lot of them are built by, honestly, like promoters. And the problem when you are building a company and you're not a technical founder, you don't have a good CTOs, you might hire a team in a different country because you want to save on costs, you built the app, you burned a bunch of money, you don't have product market fit, and like, you ran out of money, right? Or the app is so janky and slow, the UX is bad, and no one wants to use it. And because it's a consumer app, you can't have something too terrible.

• 28:32Speaker 02

  So I think the problem lies in that, like, my first answer is like, I think the problem lies because like, technical people don't think to build in creator economy. And I think a lot of engineers, like, all they care about is solving really interesting technical problems, which is why you're seeing so many people do things in the AI space, for example. It's harder to hire for, amongst other things. I would say now that I'm in the creator economy more deeply, I think a lot of it has to do with culture as well, which also scares away founders and engineers. Like, I didn't realize that Hollywood runs on like litigation.

• 29:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What do you mean by that?

• 29:10Speaker 02

  Like, the agencies were built off of litigation. Every time, like, you know, something goes wrong on a contract, everyone's solution is like, let's just sue. Like, there is a creator where, like, when creators, if they don't... I mean, we need to get better at this. Like, sometimes we give up fronts and, you know, we can't really go and sue a creator if they don't, like, it's a bad look, right? It's like, oh, like, we gave you an upfront of a hundred K and you've ghosted us. Like, we should sue, but we don't want to be that company.

• 29:38Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wow.

• 29:38Speaker 02

  But I think the opposite happens. We're like, we can sign a contract and then we, like, the creator does something egregious, right? And then we're like, okay, we don't want to work with you anymore. And then they get all mad and they're, and like, agencies are, you know, encouraging them to sue us. I was like, oh, my God. Like,

• 29:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That is crazy.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You live and breathe creators now.

• 29:59Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 29:59Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What do you think the common through line is of the creators that are successful versus not?

• 30:05Speaker 02

  I think the main thing is content. Are you churning out content? Are you disciplined about it? I think a lot of people get comfortable because they, you know, they're rolling in brand deals, et cetera. And then one day it just stops, right? Especially nowadays, to keep engagement up and to like, continue to grow following count, like, I think a lot of creators, like, they could be disciplined, but they're perfectionists. And then because they're perfectionists, they won't release that, like, YouTube video, TikTok video, whatever. That's not to their liking. And that means that instead of like, doing 10 videos a day, they're doing like, one video a week. And they may all be perfect, but that's going to hurt them. Because at the end of the day, like, something that you might not think is perfect, your audience might not notice, and that could be the video that goes viral.

• 30:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you familiar with the podcaster Joe Button, I think his name is?

• 30:55Speaker 02

  I'm not.

• 30:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So there was this really interesting article that was just talking about how he has a $20 million a year business from doing Patreon with his podcast.

• 31:03Speaker 02

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 31:04Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And, you know, something really interesting about our business right now is like, we started on social media. I was working with everyone from like, Dell, Salesforce, Shopify, like, all these amazing brands. Then we launched the podcast and I was like, this is the format I need to do. Like, I'm just able to have these insightful conversations, network, meet people, like, actually help and like, also make it relevant. And so we're in this really interesting spot where it's like, the podcast is like, number 53 today in the world.

• 31:28Speaker 02

  Congrats.

• 31:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Thank you. I'm so happy you're recording with me on that day. Um, but I- I've been really thinking about like, what is the content that can be paywalled? Because when you are creating so much content and it's all for free, you are still reliant on those brand partners, right? So for like, someone that has a very similar type of business as to me, like, what are you seeing that's successful? That people are keeping behind the paywall? Versus just like, growing the audience and putting things out there for free? Because they're in that build phase?

• 31:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think no matter what, you always need to be in a build phase. So I would never tell you like, start paywalling all your content, right? Like, you need that distribution on Spotify, TikTok, YouTube, etc. To continue to thrive. Um, I would say, every audience is different. For podcasts, what we typically see is there's like, an extra podcast episode per week? That doesn't get launched on Spotify? Or there is like, you know, an extra like, 15 minute segment? Of, um, stuff that's more controversial? Um, and that gets released on paywall? For you specifically, I actually think merchandise would do really well? Because Hot Smart Rich is a great tagline. And for our creators that do happen to just like, have a great tagline? They make a good amount.

• 32:41Speaker 02

  Um, let's call it like, five figures a month on merch? Um, just selling like, you know, embroidered tees, hoodies, etc.

• 32:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing. We have to do it offline after. But how many creators are now on passes?

• 32:53Speaker 02

  We have a few thousand.

• 32:54Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wow. What does that feel like for you? To be like, the engine behind people making five, six, seven figures? Like, every single year?

• 33:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, I would say it's definitely the force that like, drives me on my like, my days that I want to go crazy? Because doing a startup is a roller coaster? Um, I realize like, these creators are constantly reaching out to me every single day, thanking me? And they're just like, "Oh, you helped me pay off a loan. You helped me buy my first house." Actually, one of our creators in New York, um, she just bought her first house with passes money. It's amazing. Um, and like-

• 33:26Speaker 02

  It's just, it makes me really happy. So like, okay, like, we're really helping them, you know, build their businesses and their careers. And like, my long-term goal is like, I would love to really help these creators get to generational wealth. Whether that's through, you know, incubating a product like Prime or Mr. Feastables, or Feastables, or whether it's, you know, helping them find the next Uber ramp to invest in.

• 33:51Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Can we talk about how interesting it is, like, still how creator and celebrity's mentality with equity is very outdated, I would say? Like, I have really struggled getting creators or celebrities to really prioritize equity over cash payments, because their brain is just wired to like, take in as much money as possible, because there's like, we hear there's like a life cycle to creators, right? What would you say to the creators, or the brands listening to this, that are hesitant to take equity or to give equity to creators, to get them over that hump, to be like, this is how you actually start building generational wealth?

• 34:27Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I actually think the problem lies within the agency and management industry. A lot of these contracts don't give managers or agents 20% when they get equity, which makes them less likely to encourage people to take equity deals. And I've seen this firsthand. It drives me absolutely insane. Actually, the first company I wanted to build before passes, I was deciding between this idea and passes, was a more standardized way for brands to work with creators and give them equity, because there is no standardized way to do it. I was like, we could create like, some form of a YC safe for creators and brands, that's modular but reusable, and make everyone's lives easier.

• 35:12Speaker 02

  That being said, I quickly learned that creators listen to like, whoever makes them like, money, right? So, the only way I could even execute that vision was if I became the one that made creators more money than their agencies and managers. So, you know, we're getting to that point, which is great.

• 35:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wow, that's amazing.

• 35:28Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I actually think like, the like, limited lifeline means that creators do actually want to get equity more. Because equity is where generational wealth is created. Um, I think for brands, it's just an easy sell, right? Like the amount of money you're going to be spending on marketing, like you would then spend on a creator instead. Because they don't have the same customer acquisition costs, like a lot of the customer acquisition costs is zero dollars. Um, versus like, you know, you could be doing ads, et cetera. But that might not convert as well and like might not have as much of a cult following. For example, like, Road would have never gotten to where it was with just ads. Like it needed to be Hailey Bieber, creating that culture and that movement. Um, and then to creators.

• 36:11Speaker 02

  If you believe in your audience, like you believe you can drive audience to the product and create a cult following. Why are you not betting on yourself? Like, eh, look at every single person that became a like, you know, billionaire. Um, it wasn't through cash, it was through equity.

• 36:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's so true, from the queen herself.

• 36:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 36:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What is your favorite creator founded brand?

• 36:34Speaker 02

  Okay, so I actually don't really use any products per se, if that makes sense.

• 36:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 36:40Speaker 02

  I don't use lip gloss, lip balm, um, I don't eat candy. I just, if I had to choose.

• 36:51Speaker 02

  I think just because I love energy drinks, I actually really like Prime.

• 36:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love it.

• 36:56Speaker 02

  You know, it has a lot of caffeine, it works as a great mixer for my tequila.

• 37:02Speaker 02

  Yeah, so Prime, if you want to sponsor my birthday party, let me know because, uh, Red Bull wants to sponsor. I'll take you guys instead.

• 37:08Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wait, is this Lucy Palooza?

• 37:10Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah.

• 37:11Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, can we talk about that too? Because so Palm Tree Crew just raised two hundred and fifteen, well, they just raised a two hundred and fifty million dollar valuation. And I was like, Lucy could totally commercialize Lucy Palooza in the same way. Have you ever thought about that?

• 37:25Speaker 02

  So. I think, I've thought about starting a festival brand, similar to Palm Tree Crew. And I'm actually invested in Palm Tree Crew.

• 37:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, love that.

• 37:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, but I wouldn't commercialize Lucy Palooza because that's just, you know, my birthday. And I would never be able to because Lola Palooza would suit me.

• 37:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, but like something like that is something I could see you thriving at.

• 37:46Speaker 02

  Oh, I'm totally considerate. And I actually just don't understand how people, because this year I'm definitely going to lose money on Lucy Palooza. But that was because I decided I just didn't want to spend the money or spend the time, like, you know, getting sponsors, et cetera. But every year I've ran Lucy Palooza profitable.

• 38:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  And this is somewhat related to obviously what you're doing at Passes, right? Because you have a lot of creators there, they're able to enter into the world of Lucy. Like, how does the flywheel of everything that you're doing kind of come together in those moments?

• 38:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, so I think that with creator platforms especially, there's platform retention, but then there's emotional retention. And because the CreatorCon is such a relationships-driven business, that's very important. And the way you actually build close friendships and relationships with creators is face-to-face time. So Lucy Palooza is just one of those events where we get to spend time hanging out with our creators. They get to meet each other, they get to, you know, hang out with me in a friend setting. And everyone really enjoys it. I would also say it's like a really great acquisition funnel as well. Just because one by creators that may not be on Passes that are interested in joining and they see the community, they feel the community.

• 38:58Speaker 02

  And that emotional retention kicks in and they're like, oh, I want to come to more of these.

• 39:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing. Do you guys leverage AI at all at Passes?

• 39:06Speaker 02

  All the time, yes. We actually have some AI tools on the platform. We're building agents right now for creators. And yeah, I mean, we use it internally as well.

• 39:18Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing. I feel like you're an AI expert. I've actually never gotten to sit down and talk to one. If someone is listening that just uses ChatGPT and they're really good at that, what is the next thing that they can be doing to elevate and enhance their productivity relating to AI?

• 39:35Speaker 02

  I mean, that really depends on what they want to be doing with their, like, what exactly their job is, I guess. Like,

• 39:46Speaker 02

  For example, if they're a lawyer, like, I don't even want to say they're a lawyer. Like, if they're a founder, right? They could literally, I create business plans on ChatGPT. But like, right now, like, one of the main use cases I use it for to reduce legal fees is I'll drop in documents and have it poke holes, like, figure out what edits need to be made and summarize them for me. So I don't have to spend like $2,000 an hour on lawyers.

• 40:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's crazy.

• 40:15Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then I think a lot of contracts, it's just like you, like, a lot of contracts don't need to be airtight, right?

• 40:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 40:23Speaker 02

  Because chances are, nothing's gonna go wrong. And I will draft contracts on ChatGPT too, so I don't have to ask my lawyer to.

• 40:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing.

• 40:32Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 40:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  So, okay, you obviously know my boyfriend. He has a fund that has a thesis, similar to like when the iPhone came out. They were like, this is why there is all of these unicorns, like Coinbase and Uber and Airbnb, because it's like a computer in your pocket. Their thesis now is that the ripple effects of AI are going to create the next deck of corn companies. What is your response to that thesis? Do you agree?

• 40:56Speaker 02

  I agree. I mean, I think AI is helping people run companies leaner. I really do believe that there is going to be like, you know, a one-person company one day that's run on AI, that's a unicorn. Even right now, like, I'm seeing how we can keep headcount lean because of AI, right? We're figuring out like where to optimize. And because it's so much leaner to run a company now with AI, and it'll continue to be leaner, easily, like, the next deck of corns are going to be AI companies. Or at least like companies that really utilize AI to be efficient.

• 41:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you think, though, that this fear of people being afraid to lose their jobs is going to be the reality?

• 41:37Speaker 02

  I think that AI is going to make the very best people better at their jobs, right? Like, for example, if you're a designer, AI can help you generate 1,000 different logos, and you're probably going to choose one and edit it, and that will be like the logo. But you have to be the top of your field, and you're gonna have to have taste. If you're like a mid-level, entry-level employee, yeah, AI is going to probably replace you.

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• 43:35Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Scary, but true. And I think it's so good for people to get ahead of it. What do you recommend someone listening to this do to like? Like, are there courses that they can take or people to follow? Or like, how do you continue to educate yourself? Obviously, you're an expert, but like, talking to more of a beginner, how can they get educated on where AI is going and how they can benefit from it?

• 43:53Speaker 02

  Well, first I would say, start using AI tools and start getting really good at prompting and figure out how you can make your job more efficient with AI. Because if you're able to be that 10x employee right now because of AI, and I have so many, like, all my designers are utilizing AI to be 10x designers right now. You're going to be much more efficient for the company, right? So you're going to not be part of the layoffs. And then I would say, start really honing in on like creative skills, soft squeals, etc. Because at the end of the day, like AI might be able to like automate outbound sales, but it's going to be a human building that relationship and signing the contract.

• 44:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you use AI at all for your personal life?

• 44:38Speaker 02

  I will say, um, I like definitely will use it when like, I even know how to say it. Like, uh, when I got like nervous, I'll like, you know, screenshot text messages and throw it into AI. Uh, I will say that like different AIs are like, like Grok, I think is more realistic. ChatGPT like will just say you're right about everything. Like it'll always be on your side. Uh, I have a friend who like, he just believes he's seen like, you know, numbers and stuff everywhere and it means something. And ChatGPT will be like, you're not crazy. Like it is true. Like stuff like that, right? Or if you throw in, you know, a conversation, you're like, does he like me? Like Grok will

• 45:22Speaker 02

  be like, no, he doesn't like you. Get over him. Well, ChatGPT will be like, of course he likes you. Uh, ChatGPT will not hurt your feelings.

• 45:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Is that because they're training the model to react that way?

• 45:35Speaker 02

  I think there's probably some parameters. Yeah.

• 45:37Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's so interesting.

• 45:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 45:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I use ChatGPT to do my color theory analysis, which was actually phenomenal. It like totally elevated my appearance. I truly became like hot smarter and richer because of it. They were like, stop wearing gold jewelry. Um, don't buy these makeup products anymore. Like you should dye your hair three colors darker. And I feel like truly I became better looking when I did it.

• 45:56Speaker 02

  Wow.

• 45:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It was crazy because I've wanted to do it in, in Korea for so long, haven't been able to get it to go there. And I was like, I'm just going to do it with ChatGPT. And it fully changed my appearance. It was actually crazy. I also use it to structure my days because probably not to your extent, but I do a lot of different things. What does your day in the life typically look like?

• 46:19Speaker 02

  I don't have a typical day in the life. Everyone always asks me this. I think the more inconsistent thing is like I'm going to Berry. It's like early in the morning, right? Uh, I think the most typical that you can expect is I'm meeting with my product and design team daily, um, because I want to see like, you know, where we are on certain features in the roadmap, you know, get in and modify the UX and the UI earlier on rather than, you know, them wasting a month designing something and it not being right. Um, so that's something that I prioritize. Um, I would say that I get in with like, um, our like social, marketing, customer success and sales team on a regular basis to see like where we are in conversations, um, with creators, agencies, um, what's good, what's

• 47:03Speaker 02

  bad, what's at risk. And other than that, it is up in the air. Like today I'm filming a podcast. Yesterday I like spoke at Forbes. Um, tomorrow, this is more for fun thing. Tomorrow I'm walking a fashion show.

• 47:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are you allowed to say for who?

• 47:18Speaker 02

  Alexander Wang.

• 47:19Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Wait, I love the shoes. I noticed it as soon as you came in. Is this the first fashion show you've walked in?

• 47:23Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's so random. So I'm like, I'm not even in fashion.

• 47:26Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Are, are you nervous?

• 47:28Speaker 02

  Not really, no.

• 47:28Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, I love that.

• 47:29Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 47:30Maggie Sellers Reum?

  How many phones do you have?

• 47:32Speaker 02

  Um, I have one, but I just got two new phone numbers. So when the iPhone 17 comes out, I'm grabbing more.

• 47:39Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love that. I feel like you need a few phones for different things in your life.

• 47:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, at this point I do. I'm like, there's too many people that, you know, have my phone number and just will not stop texting me.

• 47:48Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Um, okay, I want to end with some rapid fire. I could talk to you really all day, but I just feel like you're going to have some really good answers here.

• 47:56Speaker 02

  Uh huh.

• 47:57Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, you can only pick one for the rest of your life. DJing or coding?

• 48:02Speaker 02

  DJing.

• 48:03Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Really?

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, I actually, um, cause I view myself more as a product designer than an engineer, which is why I double majored in, um, computer science and HCI. And I did start off with end shops, but I actually moved to product design, um, pretty early on in my career. Uh, for multiple reasons, actually paid a lot more, but I enjoyed it more as well.

• 48:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 48:23Maggie Sellers Reum?

  New York or LA?

• 48:25Speaker 02

  Ooh, um.

• 48:28Speaker 02

  LA?

• 48:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah, why?

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Why?

• 48:34Speaker 02

  The weather's great all the time. I think it's a great place to just like work. I think that... What I like about LA, I think I get bored easily, right? So the problem when I was living in Miami and New York was everyone thinks felt routine, if that makes sense? Like I had my favorite restaurants, my favorite bars, my favorite clubs. Like I was going to Brooklyn Mirage every weekend. There was nothing else for me. And in LA, it's just so boring on like a regular day to day, but there's so many pop-up events. Because there's so many brands, there's so many, you know, like because I think it's the influencer-driven culture, honestly. So brands come to LA and just do random events. And I never really know what I'm doing on any given day.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  Like some weeks I'll do absolutely nothing. Some weeks I'm like, oh, like I should go to this thing. It keeps me on my toes.

• 49:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I like that. But don't you hate how far away you are from everything in the world?

• 49:30Speaker 02

  I live in West Hollywood. Everything's close.

• 49:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  No, but I mean, like if you want to go to France, it's like 11 hours versus six if you live in New York.

• 49:39Speaker 02

  I do hate that, yes.

• 49:40Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Right?

• 49:40Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's the worst part.

• 49:41Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Which brings me to my next question. You can only have one for the rest of your life. I think I know the answer, but private jet or private chef every single day?

• 49:48Speaker 02

  Private jet, easy.

• 49:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Really?

• 49:49Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 49:50Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But do you prioritize like having a healthy home-cooked meal? Or you're like, I'll eat whatever is in front of me?

• 49:55Speaker 02

  I love McDonald's.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  I am not healthy.

• 50:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I can tell that you embarrass her friends because she like loves Taco Bell and Domino's and McDonald's.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  No, the Mexican pizza's fire. I'm really not healthy. Like I'm not someone that counts my calories. I like, I prefer junk food over healthy foods. I actually don't eat vegetables. I get my vegetables in gummy form.

• 50:16Maggie Sellers Reum?

  But then what is it about berries? So it's not for the health benefits? Like is it for something else that you go to so religiously?

• 50:23Speaker 02

  Oh, I would say it's a mix of things. So I really love music and it's a really great way to just like start my day. I think it keeps me disciplined, right? In a routine, because I, yeah, I think that once you start making an excuse, then you like... Continue to make more excuses and I can guarantee that like I'm going to get more work done when I go to Barry's. It gives me energy in a day. So it's like an extra cup of coffee. I really like music. I'm very competitive. So I like just being better than everyone else in class.

• 50:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing.

• 50:54Speaker 02

  I am definitely a teacher. I love being teacher's pet. I'm not gonna, I always love being teacher's pet. And then I think that like as a founder, you know, you can put so much effort into something and you don't see improvement versus when you work out, like what you input is like, you see output. So I think it keeps me sane as well. I think it's a community. Like in LA, it is hard to make genuine friends. And at Barry's, like the type of person that goes to Barry's at like 6, 7 AM in the morning, especially the ones at Double. There are a lot of people at Double there. They're like real human beings with real jobs.

• 51:33Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I know you're walking in your first fashion week tomorrow or fashion show tomorrow, but I feel like your next role is going to be the global ambassador of Barry's Bootcamp if they haven't done that already.

• 51:42Speaker 02

  No, they haven't. They won't even, they won't give me a single share.

• 51:45Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What?

• 51:46Speaker 02

  It sucks. I know I get nothing. I get no discounts. I get no referral fees, like.

• 51:49Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I swear you need to become like the global Barry's ambassador.

• 51:52Speaker 02

  I know. Like someone told me the other day, actually one of my employees was like, my sister watched your story and bought a hundred pack because of you.

• 51:58Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Yeah.

• 51:59Speaker 02

  And I'm like, Joey, where's, where's my referral fee here?

• 52:02Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Well, I will be honest, like I used to go to Barry's all the time and then I was suffering from crazy hormonal acne and my doctor was telling me like really high cortisol workouts aren't really good for you right now. You should stop. And I just like haven't gone back to it. But seeing you be so dedicated at Barry's, it like does inspire me to maybe get back to it. So I'm like, I think they should listen to this and maybe make you their first global ambassador.

• 52:23Speaker 02

  Maybe. You know, everyone said it and everyone tells me like I started Barry's because of you, but you, and Barry's has heard it. Like every Barry's, like I can go to a different country and people will recognize me.

• 52:32Maggie Sellers Reum?

  That's amazing.

• 52:33Speaker 02

  I think it was in like Barry's London or something and someone like fanboyed over me. Like one of the trainers and one of the employees.

• 52:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Do you know how many classes you've done?

• 52:44Speaker 02

  Um, yes. So on my, um,

• 52:49Speaker 02

  I have multiple accounts. On the account that has the most classes is close to thirty-three-hundred.

• 52:55Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Holy

• 52:56Speaker 02

  Yeah, but then I have like international accounts are different. So I have like a bunch on my international accounts.

• 53:03Speaker 02

  I used to make a new account for Barry's every single time I went because it was like, you know, the first time package. So I just put on my first time packages and eventually they're like, Lucy, you can't do this.

• 53:13Maggie Sellers Reum?

  This is Lucy saving money as much as she can.

• 53:16Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 53:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, this one's gonna be really hard because we just talked about both of them. Barry's Boot Camp or Lucy Palooza?

• 53:23Speaker 02

  Oh, Barry's Boot Camp, easily.

• 53:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  What?

• 53:25Speaker 02

  Yeah, I don't care about Lucy Palooza that much.

• 53:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, that's crazy.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  No, Lucy Palooza is for me to give a good time to other people. I'm usually stressed, but like I think I get happy being around like happy people and being able to provide like that community experience. So I do it for others, but like I'm usually just like at the door trying to run a show.

• 53:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  You're just, I saw like last week on your story, you were like, please don't ever DM me. I am like gonna be DJing. I'm not coming to the door. I was like, that's a great boundary. Because otherwise people will just push it.

• 53:51Speaker 02

  Yeah, and that was a party I really didn't want to throw. So I was like, I'm doing this because I accidentally agreed to do it.

• 53:56Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay. Uh, last one. Live music or traveling? You can only pick one for the rest of your life?

• 54:03Speaker 02

  Oh, that's hard. Um, how often would I be traveling and how often would be seeing?

• 54:09Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Like your, your life as it stands today?

• 54:12Speaker 02

  How would I see live music if I can't travel?

• 54:15Maggie Sellers Reum?

  It would only be in your city.

• 54:16Speaker 02

  It'd only be in my city?

• 54:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I mean, you live in LA, so it's not bad. You do get some good shows.

• 54:21Speaker 02

  No, I would have to move to New York.

• 54:22Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, so New York or traveling for the rest of your life?

• 54:26Speaker 02

  Oh, my God. I'd have to be like, I think I would just move to New York and live music.

• 54:31Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Oh, my goodness. Okay, I love that.

• 54:33Speaker 02

  Terrible, though.

• 54:34Maggie Sellers Reum?

  I know. How crazy is that?

• 54:35Speaker 02

  I know, because I'm like, okay, if I go to New York, like there's such good music around New York all the time. Yeah. Versus LA, yeah.

• 54:43Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Okay, we have to end with what are you wearing? Like from sunglasses to shoes to the outfit? Just rattle off what you put on today.

• 54:50Speaker 02

  Okay, well, I got these free sunglasses. I think they're from J Balvin.

• 54:53Maggie Sellers Reum?

  J Balvin.

• 54:54Speaker 02

  So, thank you. This is my Pikachu USB necklace. It has all my music. I'm creating my like DJ set for Forbes 730. I hope it's not for Blackpink, fun fact, but Rose from Blackpink, not the entire Blackpink squad. And then this is Fendi, the top and the pants. This bracelet is from TikTok Shop.

• 55:17Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love.

• 55:19Speaker 02

  And then AP Watch, Jacob and Co. Handcuff.

• 55:24Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love.

• 55:24Speaker 02

  Yeah, and then Alexander Wang Shoes.

• 55:27Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Which we're gonna see you in Walking the Show tomorrow.

• 55:29Speaker 02

  Yes.

• 55:29Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Lucy Guo, thank you so much for coming on Hot Smart Rich. If people aren't already following you and are obsessed with you, they will be now. Where can they find you?

• 55:38Speaker 02

  Just on Instagram, @guo4it, you know, like go for it, but @guo4it.

• 55:42Maggie Sellers Reum?

  Love it. Thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for listening, HSR. Please rate, review, and subscribe, and we will see you next time.

• 55:49Speaker 02

  Thank you.

• 56:00Maggie Sellers Reum?

  If you're starting a business, there are certain things that are so fun to think about. Y'all know I love a mood board, so everything that relates to the creative, the name, the brand, the website, the vision board, but then there are the things that make you pause and ask, am I even doing this correctly? Or do I even want to be doing this? Like forming your business, getting the right documents, keeping your personal information private. This is where our sponsor, Northwest Registered Agent, is so helpful. They're a one-stop shop for founders who want to launch and legitimize their business without turning it into a giant admin spiral. They help you form an LLC or a corporation, act as your registered agent, and give you tools like a business address, operating agreement, website, phone number, professional email, and free guides.

• 56:44Maggie Sellers Reum?

  They also have real corporate guides who know your local laws. Visit northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree and start using free resources to build something amazing. Get more with Northwest Registered Agent at northwestregisteredagent.com/hsrfree.

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