Is an MBA Still Worth It? and the Future of Legacy Media

Scott Galloway breaks down whether an MBA still justifies the debt, why late night TV is collapsing while podcasts arbitrage the same talent for a fraction of the cost, and what he wishes someone had told him about the first years of fatherhood. Want to be featured in a future episode? Send a voice recording to [email protected], or drop your question in the r/ScottGalloway subreddit. Plus, you can now call or text Scott a question at our new Office Hours hotline: ‪(201) 472-3656‬. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:36Scott Galloway?

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• 1:33Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to Office Hours at Prof G. This is the part of the show where we answer your questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question for next time, you can send a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected]. Question number one.

• 1:50Speaker 05

  Hi, Prof G. I'm a 28-year-old guy who recently made the decision to leave my job and head to Kellogg for a full-time MBA. I'm taking out loans to make it happen, but I believe in the vehicle. I've heard you speak about how Haas leveled up your career, and I've seen the impact of the degree firsthand. My dad's MBA was the reason that our family was able to immigrate to the US and break into the middle class. My professional background is in product consulting and strategy for a medium tech company, and I'm recruiting for either consulting or product in the fall. My question for you is if you could help me try and not read the label from inside the bottle. If you're entering an MBA program in the current state of things, what would your strategy be? And what would you be thinking about to maximize the degree's value? Thank you and your team for everything y'all do. I listen to the podcast every morning to the point where you and Ed honestly feel like my gym partners.

• 2:36Scott Galloway?

  Thanks for the question. So just some data, about a quarter of a million students are currently enrolled in MBA programs globally. The MBA is the most popular degree in the US. The cost, the average MBA ranges from $78,000 to $270,000. That's quite a range. And the average MBA graduates with $75,000 in debt. The payoff is still real. MBA graduates earn on average $50,000 more per year than those with only a bachelor's degree. And the median MBA starting salary in 2025 was $125,000, $25,000 more than experienced professionals hired directly from industry, which means that MBA grads earn approximately $4 million more over their lifetime. Million more or $4 million over their lifetime. I don't know.

• 3:21Scott Galloway?

  Well, they make more. There is a caste system here, and that is, so for example, that average salary out of Stern, I think it's $212,000 when they add in bonus and equity.

• 3:33Scott Galloway?

  And it says it's $208,000 is actually the average among the top 15 programs. And graduates of the most prestigious MBA programs can earn more than three times as much as graduates from the lowest-ranked B schools.

• 3:45Scott Galloway?

  In sum, okay, so when people ask me if they should go to get an MBA, I ask them a lot of questions. Do you have rich parents? Are you accelerating at your current career? What are your financial needs? But also, where did you get in? Because an MBA from Kellogg is going to create a brand halo for the rest of your life and opportunities and networking that will be worth taking out some debt. But some advice, the summer between your first and second year, just go to the best brand possible because it's the only chance you have to put Alphabet or JP Morgan on your resume and only work 10 weeks there. And it doesn't, you know, it doesn't look like a do-over. So I think the summer internship is a branding opportunity. I think your job is to find something you think you'd be really good at.

• 4:30Scott Galloway?

  Find something, not your passion, don't get a degree in fashion or art, in my view, but find something you could be great at in business school and really go hard at it. And then try and use the MBA as a stringboard to get into that profession. Everyone sounds or tries to sound really focused in their business school apps, but business school is really for what I call the elite and the aimless. I was in investment banking before business school, didn't know what I wanted to do next, just knew I didn't want to be in investment banking. So business school made a lot of, made a lot of sense for me. I found brand strategy in my second year and thought, I like this and I think I could be really good at it. A combination of kind of left and right brain.

• 5:13Scott Galloway?

  And started a business in my second year, which leads me to the next thing. Network as much as possible, be as socialist as possible. I don't think grades really matter that much at a business school. I don't know, maybe the recruiters are still checking, but I think it's more a chance to make great contacts and be as socialist as possible because your ability to call on people and say, hey, I saw Salesforce is hiring. Can you get me an interview there? Can we get together and talk about it? I think that trying to be as socialist as possible, also take, I don't know. I mean, what they tell you is true. Get to know your professors, be as socialist as possible, try and find something you think you'd be really good at between your first and second year. That job is really important.

• 5:57Scott Galloway?

  Go for the best brand, if you will. It sounds like you're already in school, but I'm a big fan of, once you're in, playing them off against each other to see where you can get the most financial aid. Because once you're in, the consumer or the, the kind of customer relationship flips and they want you because their yield, the percentage of people that actually show up as a percentage of the admitees is really important to them. But yeah, look, if you get into Kellogg, it's kind of a no-brainer. If you get into a tier-two MBA, it's no longer a no-brainer because the corrupt higher education system is a cartel and we tend to all have the same sticker price. Now it shifts because sometimes they can't fill their class or they have so much money

• 6:40Scott Galloway?

  they can give out scholarships, whatever it might be. But I would say in your, in your, in your situation, it's worth the debt. Be as socialist as possible. Try and find something you'd be really good at. And, you know, you're tracking, coming out, I mean, quite frankly, my brother, everybody wants to be you, coming out of, coming out of business school with a degree from Kellogg. And, you know, network as much as possible, enjoy it, really soak it in. Spend seven, eight hours in your apartment max and try and be in the library when you're studying around other people.

• 7:21Scott Galloway?

  Because you're never going to have as dense an opportunity or human capital pool as the one you're going to have in graduate school. Smart, talented, young people who are all looking to better themselves. Anyways, not a lot here other than to say congratulations. And being at Kellogg means you're kind of tracking and you're on your way. Thanks for the question.

• 7:44Scott Galloway?

  Question number two comes from Reddit. Dipstick1509 says, interesting name. Hi Scott, I wanted to push back on your discussion of late-night shows and institutional TV, including 60 Minutes. I'm 20 and still watch Kimmel and NBC News nearly every night, though on YouTube, not TV. I might be the outlier, but is there something to be said for these shows being a net positive for America to cope with rough and tumble of politics? And that is why corporations need to see beyond the balance sheet. Thank you for all you do. A 20-year-old that still watches, what's it called? Late Night? You are a unicorn, you are literally the snow leopard or whatever you are. You're like that animal they find 3,000 feet below the surface of the water that they thought was extinct 2,000 years ago.

• 8:27Scott Galloway?

  Look, these, these shows, if they don't have economic influence, they have a lot of cultural influence because they get clipped a ton. I haven't turned on late-night TV in 30 years, but I see them all the time because these guys are so talented. Colbert, Kimmel, Myers, these are some of the most talented people on television. To do what they do every night is with the aplomb and the crispness. I mean, they are just great. I think their writers must be incredibly smart. I've also met, I've met all of them except Kimmel, and I think they're remarkably, oh, Jimmy Kimmel's the other one. My sense is they're remarkably nice guys. I don't think you can fake that. I think you actually have to be a nice person that likes other people.

• 9:12Scott Galloway?

  Late night is a shit show economically. Every year, as a percentage of American households that turn on late night TV, it's down 90% since Johnny Carson. In 2015, the average late night comedy show generated about 180 million in profit. Today, the average late night comedy show loses 40 million per season. Since 2016, The Late Show, The Tonight Show, and Jimmy Kimmel Live have lost 70 to 80% of their core 18 to 49 audience. Again, see above, you're a unicorn here. In 2018, network late night shows brought in a combined ad revenue of 439 million. In 2024, combined ad revenue for these shows was 220 million. Think about that. 2018, 439 million, now it's 220. About half of it was just in six years.

• 9:56Scott Galloway?

  In six years, the business has been cut in half. Even late night fans are opting for digital platforms. Conan O'Brien once struggled to reach 1 million nightly viewers on TBS. Since his exit, he's accumulated more than 9 million subscribers on YouTube. And when Jimmy Kimmel returned to late night, his clips attracted three times as many viewers on YouTube than broadcast. So as audiences shift online, podcasts have actually become the new... Well, the way I describe it is it's the arbitrage of the means of production. So Colbert, 60 million revenues, 100 million costs, not economically viable. A lot of people would say it was politically influenced, maybe, but it's easy to cancel a show for whatever reason when it's losing 40 million a year. Unions, a band, a theater.

• 10:38Scott Galloway?

  His guest host team was five people. I was actually invited on Colbert and I was sick and couldn't go on. And then two weeks later, it was moving into his last episode, they said, sorry, we don't have room for Scott. Or maybe they were just pissed off I canceled. Doesn't matter. I think Steve Colbert is a genius. Anyway, he will leave, or he's leaving. He will start a podcast. It won two 60 million. It'll do 20 million, but it'll be six people, not 200 people. That's how many people worked on Stephen Colbert's late night show, 200 people. It'll do 20 million, so it'll do 2/3 less revenue, but it'll cost four or five million max to produce. So it'll be much more profitable. He'll make the same, or almost the same money, and this thing will be economically viable. And that's what podcasts are.

• 11:23Scott Galloway?

  Podcasts are TV shows that arbitrage the means of production. 80% of the quality of a TV show for 5% of the price, which gives advertisers and the talent better economics, if you will. A premium podcast episode typically costs $18,000 to $42,000 to produce. That's not true. They... Well, okay, the serial ones, like the crime dramas, cost real money. This shit, I mean, it doesn't cost a ton of money to produce, quite frankly, other than the psychological toll it takes on me and the people working on this thing is they have to listen to my incredibly vulgar and appropriate jokes. The global podcast industry has grown to 40 billion with 619 million listeners worldwide. U.S. podcast ad revenue now exceeds $4 billion.

• 12:08Scott Galloway?

  And the podcast industry is growing at a 27% compound annual growth rate. By 2030, the global podcast market is projected to reach $131 billion, and podcast hosts are the most trusted influence category. It's just amazing to me. I'm not exaggerating. I could call any presidential candidate and they'll come on maybe within 48 to 72 hours because everyone sees what, or witnessed what happened with Trump. And podcasts appear to be the new media arbiters of who gets elected or does not get elected to office. So what do you have here?

• 12:40Scott Galloway?

  Late night TV, still culturally relevant, but it's all moving to podcasts and digital platforms where you can get 80 or 90% of the best of these guys for a lot less money. Doesn't mean it's going away. No, it's just going to get much smaller and smaller. I mean, I don't know if Colbert is going to go to The Late Show or Jimmy Kimmel or what have you, but the industry is much... We're so fond of it. We like to think it's precious. Those people are all going to find different channels for their voice and their opinions. There'll just be digital channels that'll be on demand. And like I said, I think it's great. You know, good for you that you watch these things. But my brother, you brought the average age down by two years because I think the average age of their viewership is now well into the 60s. So you are odd.

• 13:25Scott Galloway?

  You are strange. You are unique. You are one of one or one of three. I'm sure there's two other people who are your age who watch late night. But appreciate the question. And what are you doing up so late? What are you doing? Your mom called. Get some sleep. Thanks for the question.

• 13:43Scott Galloway?

  We'll be right back after a quick break.

• 13:51Scott Galloway?

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• 14:33Scott Galloway?

  Being a renter and now owning a home feels a lot better with Built. You can download the Built app and join the membership for where you live at joinbuilt.com/profg. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-L-T.com/profg. Use our link so they know we sent you.

• 14:51Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Vanta. As AI adoption grows, so does your company's security risks and requirements. New frameworks, audits, and vendors keep piling on, but your team isn't getting any bigger. Most compliance tools promise automation, but you're really stuck doing all the work by hand, chasing screenshots, validating controls, and playing catch-up when audit season comes around again. Vanta works differently. Their Agentic Trust platform is built to scale with you, not slow you down. With over 1,400 automated tests across 400-plus integrations, Vanta collects evidence and monitors your controls year-round, cutting your audit prep by 82%. Plus, you can access the Vanta agent everywhere you work, whether your team is in Vanta every day or living in tools including Claude or Cursor. Want proof?

• 15:36Scott Galloway?

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• 15:58Scott Galloway?

  Support for the show comes from Vanta. As AI adoption grows, so does your company's security risks and requirements. New frameworks, audits, and vendors keep piling on, but your team isn't getting any bigger. Most compliance tools promise automation, but you're really stuck doing all the work by hand, chasing screenshots, validating controls, and playing catch-up when audit season comes around again. Vanta works differently. Their Agentic Trust platform is built to scale with you, not slow you down. With over 1,400 automated tests across 400-plus integrations, Vanta collects evidence and monitors your controls year-round, cutting your audit prep by 82%. Plus, you can access the Vanta agent everywhere you work, whether your team is in Vanta every day or living in tools including Claude or Cursor. Want proof?

• 16:43Scott Galloway?

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• 17:08Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Question number three comes from user ASD99. Hey, Prof G. Been struggling with the transition to being a new dad, seven months. I'm working professional and so is my wife. We both really wanted to have kids and it took us some time to conceive. I always wanted to be a dad, but now that I am one, I'm finding it harder than anything I've ever done. I constantly worry about the well-being of my son, even though he is happy, healthy, and meeting all his milestones. We are doing well financially and our jobs are secure, but I can't help but feel the anxiety that I need to do more. Any advice for a new dad?

• 17:42Scott Galloway?

  Okay, so I think a lot of what you're feeling is entirely what you should be feeling. We're told in life insurance commercials that as soon as this thing comes rotating out of your partner, that you're automatically in love. And there's some evidence that something happens to the male brain and you, in fact, do actually register physical changes. And some men report, you know, that God switches into their soul and turns on a switch and you're automatically in love with this thing. For me, it was more a dial, and that is, I didn't love my sons when they first came out. I fell in love with them. And the harsh reality is that when my kids were born, especially my first son, I felt

• 18:22Scott Galloway?

  anxiety and shame because I wasn't professionally where I was then or where I was. I'd taken a pretty big fall because my oldest had the poor judgment to come marching out of my girlfriend at the great financial recession, and I was broke. And that's all I could think about, that I had not only failed myself and my partner, that I'd failed this kid who, and I was the primary, saw myself as the primary caregiver. In some, the birth of my sons was not a pleasant experience for me. And I think dads, some dads like it. I trust them. I did not enjoy the first two years. I thought it was a science experiment where I was just trying to keep the thing alive and worried that somehow it snuck out of its room and somehow found the pool.

• 19:05Scott Galloway?

  I remember the first thing we did when we rented a house in Florida was I put up this like fence that said, no one could ever use it. I just, I had real anxiety around that. I think that's natural. You're the protector. I think it's really important to try and be super generous with your partner because it is tremendous. I think dads are additive to the baby's life, seven months, but mothers are essential. And in addition to being a good dad, you need to be a great partner. And just the lack of... I don't care what anyone says. Moms hear the kid stirring. Dads can sleep through a lot. So your partner's going to be exhausted. And this isn't one size fits all, but I think the majority of relationships, I think that

• 19:50Scott Galloway?

  maternal bond and sense is just so extraordinary that the best thing you can do for the kid is be a great partner. But it sounds like you're doing what you're doing. I mean, if you're financially secure, if you're both working, that's going to be incredibly stressful. My partner was working at Goldman Sachs. I had just started a business. Jesus Christ. And I used to come home for bedtime because my partner wouldn't be home in time from Goldman. And then I would go back to work when she got home at 8:00 PM and work till 11:00 PM. I don't even remember those years. They were so intense. It was like Vietnam. You just kind of get out of it. You barely remember it. Although I've never been to Vietnam. I don't know if that's right. Or I haven't been to Vietnam as a combat soldier.

• 20:34Scott Galloway?

  I went for the great food and the great beaches.

• 20:38Scott Galloway?

  Yeah, by the way, undiscovered gem is Vietnam. So I think what you're feeling is is natural. I think the first year, again, despite what the Hallmark channel tells you, is really fucking stressful. Having said that, if you're having trouble sleeping, if you're generally an asshole all the time and irritable and you don't like yourself and you're, it's getting in the way of work, then you may want to seek therapy or professional help because I think there's a fine line between the normal anxiety of being a new parent and something where you may need some outside help or someone to speak to. But in some, what you're feeling is natural. It's a lot of work.

• 21:22Scott Galloway?

  What TV tells you about fatherhood and everything else is mostly bullshit, or it's the sanitized, starched version, or the PG 13 version. It is very stressful. I think the best thing you can do for your kid is to be the best partner possible to their mother and decide whether what you're going through is natural and part of, talk to your friends about it, be very open and transparent. I felt a lot of what you're feeling, or if in fact it's something deeper that you would benefit from outside help from. But let me give you the good news. Zero to two, in my opinion, suck. I think dads pretend to like it. Probably some do like it. Two to three, it sucks less, and then kind of three, it gets kind of fun.

• 22:06Scott Galloway?

  And then four to 14 is just the golden decade. I would kill. One of my biggest regrets is not having a third, specifically a girl. I would just love another one in the chute. My oldest is leaving for college in the fall. My youngest, who's 15, is kind of just not that interested in me anymore. I would just kill to have a little kid in the house right now. I think I'll always look back as those are my happiest years, but four to 14 is the golden decade. At 14, they developed these terrible things called opinions. But my point is, your hard work and anxiety that you're feeling right now has a tremendous return. And that is, it's just, again, I didn't want kids. I've had an extraordinary life on all dimensions across all my decades.

• 22:49Scott Galloway?

  Maybe not zero to 25, it's pretty unremarkable, but I've had a great adulthood, very blessed, hands down, hands down, best decade of my life. The last thing I'll think of before I depart is being the father to, to, to young children. It's just, it's just magical. So anyways, the payoff is coming, my brother. And again, what you're feeling is pretty, quite frankly, it sounds like you're exactly where you should be. Thanks for the question. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected]. Or if you prefer to ask on Reddit, just post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit,

• 23:34Scott Galloway?

  and we might feature it in an upcoming episode. This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez and Laura Janer. Kami Rik is our social producer. Brad Williams is our editor. And Drew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from Prop G Media.