Why you NEED a Financial Independence Bucket List With Justin Peters

In this episode of the Personal Finance Podcast, we are going to Justin Peters about  how to create a Financial Independence bucket List. Watch this episode on Youtube How Andrew Can Help You: Listen to The Business Show here. Don't let another year pass by without making significant strides toward your dreams. "Master Your Money Goals" is your pathway to a future where your aspirations are not just wishes but realities. Enroll now and make this year count! Join The Master Money Newsletter where you will become smarter with your money in 5 minutes or less per week Here! Learn to invest by joining Index Fund Pro! This is Andrew’s course teaching you how to invest! Watch The Master Money Youtube Channel! , Ask Andrew a question on Instagram or TikTok. Learn how to get out of Debt by joining our Free Course Leave Feedback or Episode Requests here. Car buying Calculator here Thanks to Our Amazing Sponsors for supporting The Personal Finance Podcast. Shopify: Shopify makes it so easy to sell. Sign up for a one-dollar-per-month trial period at shopify.com/pfp Chime: Start your credit journey with Chime. Sign-up takes only two minutes and doesn’t affect your credit score. Get started at chime.com/ Thanks to Fundrise for Sponsoring the show! Invest in real estate going to fundrise.com/pfp Thanks to Policy Genius for Sponsoring the show! Go to policygenius.com to get your free life insurance quote. Go to https://joindeleteme.com/PFP20/ for 20% off! Indeed: Start hiring NOW with a SEVENTY-FIVE DOLLAR SPONSORED JOB CREDIT to upgrade your job post at Indeed.com/personalfinance Turn your business dream into reality! Apply now at www.oneday.org/pfp Go to Acorns.com/pfp and start automating your investments and get a $5 bonus today! Shop Data Plans and Save Big at mintmobile.com/pfp Links Mentioned in This Episode: How to DOUBLE Your Income in One Year | E164 Andrew Giancola Connect with Justin Peters on Social Media Instagram Website Linkedin Podcast Connect With Andrew on Social Media: Instagram TikTok Twitter Master Money Website Master Money Youtube Channel Free Guides: The Stairway to Wealth: The Order of Operations for your Money How to Negotiate Your Salary The 75 Day Money Challenge Get out Of Debt Fast Take the Money Personality Quiz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Andrew Giancola?

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• 0:44Andrew Giancola?

  Search Whatnot, that's W H A T N O T, in the App Store. Download and start selling right away. When I started the Personal Finance Podcast, I had no idea how big it could become. I just knew I had something I wanted to share, so I started putting it online. And looking back, I definitely wish I would have started a decade earlier. One of the horror parts about building something online, though, is making it look professional. A website used to mean hiring a developer, figuring out design, and potentially spending thousands of dollars. In fact, on my website, I spent tens of thousands of dollars. That's what impressed me when playing around with Hostinger's AI website builder.

• 1:27Andrew Giancola?

  I told it what kind of website I wanted, and I built the first version in minutes. No coding, no designer or developer needed. And Hostinger doesn't stop at launch. Their AI can help with SEO, website copy, email marketing, and more. Plus, your domain, website, email, and marketing can all live in one account, with plans starting at just $3 every single month. Hostinger builds your vision step by step. Create your website today. Go to hostinger.com/pfp and use code PFP for 10% off now. On this episode of the Personal Finance Podcast, how to create a financial independence bucket list and take many retirements.

• 2:25Andrew Giancola?

  What's up everybody and welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast. I'm your host Andrew, founder of the mastermoney.co and today on the Personal Finance Podcast, we're joined by Justin Peters to talk about financial independence. If you guys have any questions, make sure you join that master money newsletter by going to mastermoney.co/newsletter and also follow us on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, YouTube, or whatever your favorite podcast player is. And if you're getting value out of the show, consider leaving a five star rating and review on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. So today we have Justin Peters on the show and Justin is the host of the FIVE-minded Podcast, a podcast that I have been on a few

• 3:10Andrew Giancola?

  times already. So if you haven't checked out those episodes, I highly encourage you to do so. But Justin is coming on today and is one of my favorite people in the podcasting industry. Justin and I are going to be talking through things like a financial bucket list and how you can create a bucket list and still achieve things that you want to be doing while on the path to financial independence. We're going to talk through how to take mini retirements and why if you feel like you're getting burned out, how you can plan yourself a mini retirement to give yourself a break. We're going to talk through how you can do that. We're going to go through how to gamify savings and some ways that you can trick yourself into saving more and/or just gamify the process of savings. In addition, we're going to talk about how to create a financial

• 3:54Andrew Giancola?

  independence flex schedule. A FIVE flex schedule allows you to create flexibility in your schedule so that you can do the things that you love. And this is going to be an episode I am really, really excited for you guys to hear. We're going to have Justin on this podcast more because we love to talk about financial independence here. So without further ado, I want you to welcome Justin to the Personal Finance Podcast.

• 4:15Andrew Giancola?

  So Justin, welcome to the Personal Finance Podcast.

• 4:18Speaker 01

  Andrew, man, I am so stoked to be here. Thanks for inviting me on. I'm excited to talk about what we're going to talk about today.

• 4:23Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely. We are really pumped to have you here as well. And we're going to be talking about financial independence today. And I know a lot of our audience members are really, really interested in this topic. So I'm excited to dive into some of this. But before we do that, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and what you do?

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, I talk about personal finance and money all day long. I have a podcast called Fy Minded. I just rebranded it and you're actually going to be the very first episode of the new rebranded show, which is awesome. But long story short, I essentially found financial independence, maybe seven or eight years ago, slipped into it mostly from the sense of like, I recognized I didn't want to be working or at least being forced to work the rest of my life. And slowly over time, got better and better at this. And then I saw the power of financial independence for myself and I wanted to start helping other people with it. And that's when I got into podcasting.

• 5:12Andrew Giancola?

  It's so fun when you kind of have that moment in time where you realize how cool financial independence is and how you go back and you can start to buy your time. And I think that realization is that lightbulb moment is what I always call it. Is one of those things that you just always remember kind of that point in time and where you were and kind of what you were doing at that time. And I think that was huge for me as well. But you have this really cool system and the way that you approach financial independence is also very cool. And one thing that you have is called the Financial Independence Bucket List. So can you tell me about that bucket list and kind of some specific items that you've included in that?

• 5:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. And taking a step back from that too, I should have put a preface on this. I love financial independence, but I also want to enjoy my life now too. And I definitely fell into the victim trap early on of just depleting everything, being super frugal and recognizing that after a couple of years of really pursuing financial independence and this kind of mentality, it wasn't going to be sustainable for me. So slowly over time, I decided, how can I insert a lot of fun into financial independence and not just like post reaching my fire number, but also like throughout the entire journey too. And one of the concepts that came about while I was doing some brainstorming on that is this Financial Independence Bucket List. Five bucket list. It's very similar to a normal bucket list, you know, coming from the

• 6:29Speaker 01

  the phrase, you know, kicking the bucket. What do you want to do before you kick the bucket? And people make these like really cool lists of all the different things they want to do. And I wanted to take that concept, but put it into the phi world. And essentially, how does this apply to my phi journey? And not only like, what do I want to do post reaching financial independence? But whatever some of these things on this list that I can start applying to my everyday as well. You know, a lot of things on my list personally don't cost a lot of money. I mean, there are some things, of course, there are places I want to go and things that I want to buy and and whatnot, but like so much of what was on my list or what I was uncovering on my list was attainable without any additional money, but more so just some flexibility and freedom.

• 7:09Andrew Giancola?

  And I think that is one of the most refreshing parts about kind of your approach to financial independence is I was the same way. In my twenties, a lot of times I was really frugal. Once I discovered financial independence, I was a huge proponent of like Mr. Money Mustache way back in the day. And I'd read every single one of his blog posts. I'm like, yeah, I'm going to live on $25,000 a year too. And it was one of those things where I got so excited about it. Then I brought it to my wife and she was not so excited to live that brutally. And so it was one of those things that we had to kind of find a balance and over time, my expenses had gotten grown over time. And I realized pretty quickly that instead I want to spend more on the things that I love and make sure that I help and prioritize that as well. And so the five bucket list is definitely something I think that a lot of people can look at and take that approach on as well.

• 7:51Andrew Giancola?

  So what are some of the must have items to include in your five bucket list? Or what are some things that you add to that?

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I created the five bucket list because I was so tired of people asking me, you know, whenever you get into the financial independence movement and you start telling people that aren't in this movement, that you're going to maybe retire in your 30s or your 40s. The question I always get is like, well, what do you got to do with your time? And the first couple of times I heard that I kind of dismissed it. I was like, don't worry, I'm too type A. I will figure out things that I want to do. But then I was like, actually, that's a really great question. What do I want to do with my time? And I started creating this bucket list. I have a couple of different broad categories. Places I want to go. That one's really obvious. I like to travel. My girlfriend really loves to travel, so she definitely. This category for me and we have a lot of different things. I actually got to cross out

• 8:38Speaker 01

  one last year, which was Tokyo. Tokyo was on my shortlist. I really wanted to go and we actually ended up putting the money aside and making the trip out to Tokyo, which was great. So places I want to go. Then there are things that I want to do. These are your more typical bucket list type things. It could be like run a marathon or see Machu Picchu, whatever. One that is on my list that I'm really excited to eventually do is read all seven Harry Potter books. I don't know why I have read a half of the fourth one. Like that is all I've read. I like the movies. I enjoy them and I, for some reason, it just like landed on my five bucket list at some point in time. I was like, you know what? I'm gonna read the Harry Potter books. Like whenever I get time to read now, it's usually personal finance or

• 9:20Speaker 01

  business related books, but I wanna, as I get closer and closer to financial independence, start just reading for fun. And for some reason, I think the Harry Potter series would really jumpstart that. So that's another big one that's out there. And the last kind of general category that I have is habits, or just like I have in parentheses every day. And this one came through a lot of conversations and it wasn't as tangible as like go to Tokyo or read the Harry Potter books, but more so like, how do I want to embody and live every single day? So one thing that has been on that list for a little while is I want to be outside more and in front of a computer screen less. And over time, I have started to really focus on a couple of these habits.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  These are the things that usually don't cost me a whole lot of money, but I just want like my life to be centered around them. So like now I have a rule where if it's 70 or 80 degrees outside and sunny, I want to be off work by 3:30. Like that's just like a hard rule for me. Like I can always come back to work at 7:30 or 8:00, whenever it starts getting dark. Don't worry. But like, I'm gonna go enjoy four or five hours of the awesome weather if that's the case. And luckily, Austin has been giving me tons of that recently and I've been benefiting a lot from it.

• 10:30Andrew Giancola?

  I love that. I think that is such a cool idea is to kind of have all these different types of things on your bucket list. Now, first of all, I think a lot of us listening want to travel. We have a ton of audience members who love traveling. We talk about travel hacking a lot and some cool things that you can do there. And I think for me, that's a big one for me specifically as well as kind of thinking through some of the things that I want on my bucket list is to travel a lot more. And I think that's going to be a big one coming up for sure. But I love the idea of kind of how you integrate some of these other different areas, things like habits, for example, that's an amazing thing to go out and do. A, you're going to feel so much more refreshed to go outside and spend more time in sunlight. Like, for example, that's something I need to do more. I'm sitting in a studio right now with all the windows blocked off and I'm like in darkness half the time. And so it's one of those things that I think is just so incredibly powerful.

• 11:15Andrew Giancola?

  And I love how you kind of balance that. Now, when you have all these things on your list, or when you have these items on your list, how do you balance being able to chase after some of those things? And then how do you balance also saving for financial independence in the future? So obviously, some of the things on your list are free, like the last example. But outside of that, if you wanted to go travel more, how do you balance those two things?

• 11:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that's the million dollar question right there, or the crux of a lot of what I like to talk about. And I think it can be challenging, but prioritizing, like right last year, we knew Tokyo was going to be expensive, at least the flights, although it was way cheaper than we were expecting. The US dollar versus the Japanese yen right now has saved us a whole lot. But at the beginning of the year, we knew that we wanted to allocate a certain amount of money to crossing this bucket list item off of our list. And we set that aside. And we knew, outside of that, we were maxing out our 401ks, our IRAs, we were doing all the things so that we wanted to give ourselves the permission to spend some money now and enjoy the current moment. But also, we were taking care of

• 12:17Speaker 01

  ourself. And I think we can get into the habit, especially the super savers out there, of recognizing that it isn't necessarily always about just how do I max out all of my accounts and get as much money as I can into some of my investments. But if you intentionally take a step back at the beginning of the year, look at your list and be like, what are some of the monetary items on this list that I really want to prioritize? I think that helps me at least kind of relieve or get relieved with the fact that, okay, I'm gonna be spending a little bit of money, but they're intentionally spending this money on the things that I've been wanting to do for a very long time now.

• 12:51Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely, and I think it's almost one of those things, a lot of times when I create these lists, I will prioritize them from like most important to least important. When I have most important up there, sometimes the most important thing is actually a pretty expensive item. And if it's one of those things where like, say, you want to travel to multiple countries all in one big trip. If you wanted to do something like that, and it's going to cost you, I don't know, seven, $10,000 because you're going to go for multiple months or weeks, whatever else. If you want to do something like that, it's worth the time and the energy to start saving for it now, even if it's a big, huge goal, just start putting dollars towards that big, huge goal because you're going to be so surprised at how fast you can actually achieve that goal, even if you just automate it over time. That's one of my favorite things to do. And then outside of that, you can start to go, you know, check other things off your list as well. So is this something that you kind

• 13:34Andrew Giancola?

  of keep in a, like a Google Doc? Or how do you kind of organize all of this?

• 13:38Speaker 01

  It's a note in my phone. So anytime an idea comes to me, I just quickly open up my note and throw it into the sheet. And then, once again, at the beginning of the year, I typically open that up and I highlight a couple of things or bring some things to the top. And I'm like, these are the ones that I really want to focus on or prioritize this year.

• 13:53Andrew Giancola?

  Awesome. What advice would you give someone who is just starting to create their own financial independence bucket list? Is there any way or thought process you have for this or frameworks that you can kind of give as tips for that?

• 14:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think, I mean, I loved how I started, which was just opening up a note in my phone. And over the course of the year, as ideas came by, I just added them. I didn't really try to scrutinize them at all. Like, I wasn't saying no, I was really just like creating the list and getting the master list put together. And then over time, you know, categories started to emerge, priorities started to take place. And some years, I just crossed things off. I'm like, ah, I thought I wanted to do that. Like, I was, I really wanted to brew my own beer at some point in time, but now I hardly drink anymore. So I'm like, ah, I don't know, it doesn't like resonate the same for me, which I think is totally fine. So you can move and shift things as your own life changes. But yeah, I think just don't overthink it and figure out whatever method makes sense for you to

• 14:47Speaker 01

  capture ideas and put a, you know, quarterly or annual reminder on your calendar just to check the list and start to prioritize a couple of things on your list.

• 14:55Andrew Giancola?

  I love that. And I actually before, you know, I don't drink much anymore either. But when I used to drink a little more when I was younger, I used to try to brew beer.

• 15:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:02Andrew Giancola?

  And when I did that the first couple of times, I messed up like five batches in a row. And I just completely quit. So I was like, I'm done with this after that. But that's one of those things for sure. It's supposed to be super easy. And for some reason, I couldn't figure it out, but it's one of those things. Uh, I love those ideas. It's just kind of coming up with some really cool activities that you're interested in. Um, and it just kind of going after it is, is the best way to do this. Now, I want to shift gears slightly here because you have a really cool concept that I absolutely love for a lot of people, which is taking mini retirements. And I think many retirements are something that most people probably have never even thought of. Uh, if you've never heard of this before, and it's something where you did this. You took a seven month mini retirement. And so what kind of inspired you to do that? And then what did you do during that time?

• 15:45Andrew Giancola?

  And how did it change your perspective of financial independence as well?

• 15:48Speaker 01

  I would love to sit here and tell you that the inspiration was positive inspiration. But if I'm being honest with you, I took a sabbatical at the end of 2019 and mostly through just being burnt out. I was 27 at the time. I'd been working pretty much full time since I was 15. Like even through, uh, high school and college, spring breaks, summer breaks, weekends. I was trying to fill as much time as I could towards working. And I recognized going into my mid twenties, I was feeling burnt out. And on top of just being overworked from hours, I wasn't doing work that really felt purposeful or aligned either.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  But I wasn't sure, like I was so exhausted every day coming home and I just like, wasn't sure what I wanted to change into. And the thought of like, having to start applying for jobs and looking for new jobs at this time felt overwhelming. And I was having an amazing conversation with somebody. I was doing some career exploration. I thought I might want to do career coaching. So I called up a career coach and he actually flipped the script on me and just started like, actually being a career coach to me. And I was like, Hey, Justin, you've been telling me about this money that you saved and that you're unsure what you want to do. Like, why don't you just take some time off? And that felt like such a novel idea, uh, especially someone in their mid twenties, but definitely somebody that has grown up in a frugal household where his father was always telling him like, you gotta work,

• 17:13Speaker 01

  you gotta provide, you gotta be a sense of society, whatever. And I was like, wow. And it took me about three months to really act on some of that advice that he gave me. And I was like, you know what? That's actually a really great idea. So I ended up leaving my job, creating a self-made sabbatical for myself. And I had a ton of things planned. This started January 2020. And of course, you can tell how a seven-month sabbatical's got to turn out in 2020. COVID kind of wrecked havoc on a lot of it and canceled a bunch of plans for me. But it was the best decision I ever had. I re-entered the workforce with way more clarity. I started a passion project, which was a podcast, which turned into now a business and a career of mine. It was the best thing that I ever did. And I highly encourage

• 17:58Speaker 01

  people to do it in their own life, too.

• 18:01Andrew Giancola?

  This is why I love talking about money so much. And this is why personal finance is so powerful, is because you were in a job, you were getting burned out, you were working really, really hard. And all of a sudden, you had this tool that was sitting there that you could actually go out and utilize to buy back your freedom, take that break, refresh, and figure out exactly what you want to do. And this is why I love talking about personal finance so much, because it is so incredibly powerful, what you can do with your money. And it gives you so many cool options. And optionality and flexibility is why we talk about financial independence so much, and why you can do some of this stuff. If so- My relationship with money has changed a lot over the years. Early on, I thought building wealth was about making more money. Now, I know it's really about having clarity. When you know exactly where your money is going, and whether you're on track, you make

• 18:45Andrew Giancola?

  better decisions. That's one of the reasons I love Monarch. It's the personal finance app that tracks everything, from your accounts and investments, to your savings, goals, and spending. So you can see your entire financial picture in one place. One habit that's made a huge difference for me is my five-minute drill every single morning. I open Monarch, check my spending, investments, cash flow, and net worth, and I'm done in just a few minutes. It gives me confidence that nothing is slipping through the cracks. I also love the AI weekly recap, because it'll flag spending changes, upcoming expenses, or shifts in my net worth before they become a problem. Instead of reacting after the fact, I can make adjustments early. It really feels like having a financial- ...visor in your pocket.

• 19:30Andrew Giancola?

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• 20:14Andrew Giancola?

  And their licensed team helps you compare coverage, prices, and terms, answers your questions, and even handles the paperwork so you can get the right policy without the hassle. For me, having life insurance isn't about expecting something to happen. It's about knowing my family is protected so I can actually enjoy these moments together instead of worrying about what comes next. And with PolicyGenius, you can find 20-year life insurance policies, starting at just $276 a year for $1 million of coverage. Head to PolicyGenius.com to compare life insurance quotes from top companies and see how much you can save. That's PolicyGenius.com. If you've been listening to this show for a while, you know it's not just me anymore. It takes a great team behind the scenes to make everything happen.

• 20:59Andrew Giancola?

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• 21:42Andrew Giancola?

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• 22:11Speaker 02

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• 22:41Andrew Giancola?

  What is considering doing a mini-retirement? Maybe they're working right now and they're getting burned out, or maybe they just want some time to themselves to kind of focus on doing something interesting, or maybe they want to go travel, or whatever else it could be. What would you recommend to them to make it somewhat of a fulfilling experience?

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'll definitely answer that question. But just to add on to what you were just saying there too, I want to remind people that all the investing, the savings for your retirement, for your future self, can also be applied to your future self tomorrow, not your future self at 65. For me personally, looking back on it now, I'm so glad that I took that break. And I wasn't saving and investing for my future self during that sabbatical. I just didn't have income coming in, so I wasn't prioritizing that. But I would much rather have taken those seven months off now than take those seven months in addition to whatever I'm going to be doing in full retirement, you know, in my 60s, 70s and 80s. I think it's really important to remind people that all that work that you're doing with your money now, you can deploy that at any point in time. And of course, you need to set yourself up financially in order to do that.

• 23:41Speaker 01

  But if you're feeling burnt out, if you're feeling overwhelmed, don't be afraid to take a mini-retirement of any capacity. At minimum, like maybe going and asking your employer for two or three or four weeks off and truly taking just a little retirement or a sabbatical, I think is super important. But if I were to kind of walk it back and talk about the practical, the how. First, I mean, I'm so focused on money and so type A that I didn't want to set myself up or sabotage myself and like be forced to like come back into work early because I ran out of money. So I would be looking at your finances and putting aside a certain amount of money for that time. I actually spent way less money than I was expecting to spend. Part of that was COVID and I just wasn't able to do all the things that I wanted

• 24:24Speaker 01

  to do. But part of that was also just like the things you recognize that you spend money on, like convenience food or terrible times to take a flight, but you have to get back on a Sunday night in order to start working again on a Monday. A lot of those things like kind of came off my plate whenever I was taking my sabbatical and I could take the cheap Tuesday afternoon flight instead of the expensive Sunday flight. So actually, I ended up spending $11,000 total throughout this sabbatical in terms of how much money I made versus how much money that I spent. And I did make a little extra money just because I was available and like random projects came up, like a speaker was in town and they needed a live audience and they were paying like $500 for you to go to this and be a participant in the live audience for a day. That, I would have never said yes to that

• 25:09Speaker 01

  when I was working full time, but I was kind of bored because it was, you know, coming out of COVID and I was like, sure, I'll go sit in an audience. And it was a speaker that I really liked. So first thing first, take care of the money side. Make sure that you have enough set aside that you feel really comfortable with that. And then second, really be thinking about what's my intention behind this mini retirement? Is it to take a step back and just decompress and live a little bit slower and get rejuvenated? Or is it to explore a new interest or hobby? Like for me, podcasting was super important. I've always wanted to start a podcast, but I was just too tired to do it after work hours. So starting my, my sabbatical with a project in mind and knowing I wanted to put a lot of focus into that was really important. It could be travel or it could be some of

• 25:54Speaker 01

  the things on your five bucket list too. Maybe your intention is to set work aside. Entirely and start crossing off a couple of things that you really want to focus on because maybe you're soon to be a parent and you want to make sure that you can spend six months prior to becoming a parent, doing some traveling because it's got to be a little bit harder. So I think setting some intentionality before you go into your mini-retirement will be really important. So you don't just flounder and waste your time and then six months later, you're like, oh, shoot. Like I had all this time off, but it wasn't really how I wanted to spend my time off.

• 26:26Andrew Giancola?

  And when it comes to the tactical side of this, so when you're thinking about, you know, taking a mini-retirement and you want to go through this process and you kind of mapped out some of the things that you want to do, how would you recommend people kind of work backwards when they are looking at the financial side? So would you say, hey, just save X amount of dollars? That you, you know, whatever you spend every single month, would you save that amount of money for the amount of months that you want to work? Would you give yourself an extra cushion? Or how would you personally think about that?

• 26:51Speaker 01

  I personally would give myself an extra cushion. I think you never know. I was looking for employment in late summer of 2020 and that is when there was a ton of layoffs and everybody was looking for a job. So I was really taking a six-month sabbatical and ended up being seven, just because it took me a little bit longer to find a job. So I definitely add a little bit of cushion just for that reason. Or if things are just going great and you want to extend to have that option there, I think is great. I would definitely think about what's my monthly expenses currently? And then what are some of the big ticket items? If you're going to do some traveling, just add that in from a tactical standpoint. Add that into your budget for your mini-retirement. And then on top of that, maybe you're saving some money leading up to your mini-retirement, but you can do some other things like turn off your auto dividend reinvestments.

• 27:33Speaker 01

  And then you can have some dividend income coming in from your taxable accounts throughout your mini-retirement that will kind of pad or cushion some of the money that you've already set aside.

• 27:42Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely. I love those ideas and I think there's a lot of really, really cool things you could do, even while you're taking your mini-retirement. There's stuff in your house, you got a little time. If there's stuff in your house that you don't utilize anymore, start selling that stuff and you can kind of get it out of your house, declutter, especially if you're looking to kind of minimize some of the possessions that you have in your house and those types of things as well. Now, are there any creative mini-retirement ideas that you have? Like have you ever seen anybody kind of doing this consistently every couple of years? Or have you seen this be something where people will kind of do this, you know, on a yearly basis? Or what are some of your thought processes on that?

• 28:12Speaker 01

  Yes, actually, whenever I was taking my sabbatical, I was truly calling it a sabbatical at that time. I didn't have the concept of mini-retirement in my head yet until I interviewed Gillian John's Red, and she was the one that kind of put these words into my mouth around mini-retirements. And she's a great poster child. I think she's like, maybe in her 40s or something, been pursuing financial independence for like 20 years, and she's taken 12 mini-retirements throughout that time. Like, every year or two, she's like intentionally taking a retirement. And they've been for completely different reasons. I think her most recent, if I'm remembering right, is she really wanted to redesign her backyard. And she lives on a couple of acres, so she wanted to have an orchard back there, and some gardening, and a bunch of different

• 28:57Speaker 01

  things. And she just wanted to like, take a couple of months off to really prioritize on building out that entire backyard. She's also wanted to do a national park tour, and go to all the national parks with her and her family. So she did a mini-retirement on that. And then I know her husband took a mini-retirement because I think he wanted to get into like automotive repair, but he needed to go back to school to learn some of those skills. So he just took some time off, went back to school, he could 100% focus on getting the certificate or this degree that he needed in order to step into this new career. So it's like three totally different concepts around a mini-retirement, and she's done them all, which is super cool.

• 29:35Andrew Giancola?

  And that's the other cool thing about being able to do some of this kind of stuff. If you have, you know, someone who you're married to, or you have a spouse in your life, or someone you live with, and you kind of share the bills, like one of you can take a mini-retirement while the other one's still working and there's income coming in, and kind of reverse it if you want to, if you're not, you're doing specific activities where you both need to take that mini-retirement. So there's a lot of cool options here that I think a lot of people have if they want to kind of branch out and get creative with this. The cool thing about personal finance, this is why I love financial independence, is it's really creative. And so, there's so many people out there who kind of create flexibility in their life, and they can do so many great things with their money buying back their time.

• 30:12Speaker 01

  Even geo arbitrage comes in a lot with mini retirements. Like, maybe you do, like, traveling is your focus, your intention for your mini retirement. And you going to stay over in Asia for six months is probably got to drastically reduce your cost or your expenses on a monthly basis, too. So I almost see people, like, pairing up really cool, like, personal finance tactics, like geo arbitrage, with something like a mini retirement. And then maybe they only need to save, like, 50% of what they were expecting to save versus, like, 100% if they were to take that time off in the US.

• 30:45Andrew Giancola?

  I love that, and I think that's another great idea. I remember, like, back, you know, 10 or so years ago, a lot of people would go to Thailand, for example, because the exchange rate was such a drastic exchange rate between the dollar. And so you could live on so much cheaper there than you could, you know, in the US. And so people would go there, they would start, you know, online businesses or things like that as well, just to see if it would work. And it was a really cool concept, I think, that a lot of people would be able to go out and do. So I love the thought process there, and I think there's so many cool things that you can do, and it gives you flexibility. Now, there's another concept that you talk about called, basically, gamifying savings. And I love thinking through this a little bit, too, because I think a lot of people kind of think of savings as something boring, they're just putting money into, you know, their retirement accounts or their savings in their emergency fund, but they don't think of a way to kind of make this motivating and interesting to them.

• 31:30Andrew Giancola?

  So how can people kind of reward themselves along the way when they're trying to reach their financial independence goals?

• 31:36Speaker 01

  This has been a huge one, a powerful one, in Andrew Giancolas' words, for really making financial independence achievable and fun, is gamifying the process. Like, who doesn't love a game? And I think this one really stuck with me whenever I interviewed Justin Brown Woods from Price of Avocado Toast. He is a former teacher, and he uses a lot of gamification in his classroom to teach ideas, and that really stuck with me. And I started figuring out, how do I gamify my own financial independence journey and make this more fun and exciting? I mean, the concept's simple, I think. Figure out, what are you trying to get to? Is it a debt payoff number? Is it a financial independence number? Whatever it may be, it could be even, like, saving for a down payment or a new car or

• 32:21Speaker 01

  something, and break That up. I like to break it up in like 10 different milestones. And then throughout that process, reward yourself whenever you're hitting each of those milestones. So maybe you're trying to reach financial independence. You want to get to a million dollars. And every hundred thousand, you reward yourself and you dictate the reward. Maybe you look at your five bucket list and you pick 10 things off that list and you're going to say, okay, every time I hit a new hundred thousand dollar mark in my net worth, I'm going to cross off one of these big bucket list items. I'm going to go take that vacation over to Tokyo or I'm gonna invest in this course that I've always wanted to take, etc. So I think there are tons of different ways that you can gamify it.

• 33:01Speaker 01

  And I'm one that I'm doing currently, which I find really fun is I force myself for every $10 that I save, intentionally spending one of those dollars too. So like if this month I'm netting a thousand dollars and you know, 900 of that is going to go into my IRA. I have to spend 100 of it on something else. And right now I'm like a true nineties boy. I'm back into collecting Pokemon cards. So I just essentially go and blow it on buying new Pokemon cards. But it's been so fun at the end of every month to like, start to reconcile all my expenses and be like, oh, how much do I get to spend this month?

• 33:34Andrew Giancola?

  I love that. And I think that's one of those things. If you're someone like how Justin and I probably are when we were, you know, early twenties and we were really frugal and you have a hard time spending money, that's a great way to kind of look at that too. Is to kind of force yourself to spend money. So you get more comfortable with it. Cause spending money is a skill and if you can start to develop that skill over time and start to spend those dollars on things that you value, it'll absolutely change the way that you see money going forward, which I love. So that's absolutely amazing. Now you have another game called the save and match game. What is that about? Tell me about that more.

• 34:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that was a little bit of what I was talking about from the, the spending piece to it. But you could flip it too. Like you kind of have to know or recognize who you are. Are you the frugalite, the super saver? Are you the spender? And whichever you are, kind of apply the opposite or the inverse. So for me, once again, like you were saying, I Grew up really frugal. I really have a hard time spending money on things that I find are more like wants than they are needs. So I did this forced like, okay, for every $9 that I save, the next dollar has to be spent. You could do the opposite, though. Do a save and match. So for every $50 that you spend, maybe you are the spender. So you go out, you go shopping, you spend $50, take another $50 and put it into investing or saving for your future.

• 34:48Andrew Giancola?

  I love that. I think that's the absolute way to kind of look at this. And we even talk about this all the time, where we want you kind of spending in a certain range for your things that are your necessities. And we want you to save and invest at least 20% plus on your income. But then we want the rest of those dollars to be spent on things that you absolutely love. And if you can get your income high enough and get your necessities low enough, you can really spend a lot of money on things that you absolutely love. And it's just figuring out that game and kind of that adjustment based on your budget and how much you spend every single month. So how does pairing rewards with your FI bucket list? Is that something that you do is when you're, say, for example, you want to save that million dollars and you hit your first $100,000. Would you kind of take something off your five bucket list and look at that and say, hey, I want to go on the vacation that's at the top of my list? Or how would you kind of think about pairing those

• 35:33Andrew Giancola?

  two together?

• 35:34Speaker 01

  100%. This is why I think all three of these concepts that we talked about around many retirements, gamification and the five bucket list, they can kind of work interchangeably. And I think it's super powerful in that sense. But yeah, I think your five bucket list can be your reward system. I think you should be prioritizing the things that you're adding to that five bucket list. So if you're doing the save and match program, then maybe you are like for every dollar that you spend on eating out or for clothes or whatever, you put a dollar into your Tokyo bucket. And whenever you start, you finally reach that number, go and spend or go and actually take that trip. So I definitely think you should be pairing up the five bucket list with your gamification process.

• 36:13Andrew Giancola?

  I love that. Now, I want to shift gears here to another thing that you talk about, which is the five flex schedule. And I think this is one, it's along the same exact lines of what we've been talking about thus far. But I think this is something else where people probably have not thought about this a ton, where it can kind of creatively create gaps and space within your schedule. So you don't feel like you're just burning yourself out all the time. So can you kind of explain what the five flex schedule is and how people can build more freedom in their work week before reaching full financial independence?

• 36:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, whenever I ask people like the reason why they want to hit a certain net worth number, or why they're so focused on saving and investing for their future self, I hear two F words, and it's not Ferrari. Like Ferrari never comes up. They don't want to buy a nice expensive car. I almost always hear freedom and flexibility. Those are the two things that I hear. People are, they want to accumulate enough money so that optionality becomes super apparent to them. And they're not forced into a certain job. They're not forced into a certain work schedule, etc. So I think as you are getting closer and closer to financial independence, you should start to adopt a FIVE FLEX schedule. And

• 37:27Speaker 01

  what I mean by this is, once again, that habit section on my FIVE bucket list, those things should start to become more and more clear and more and more evident in your daily life. And that's why I put this like 3:30 rule on my calendar where I have to go outside at 3:30 if it's a nice day out, is because one of the habits that I wanted to do was spend more time outside. And I love going outside when it's a nice sunny day out. And I'm like, why do I need to wait until post-financial independence? How can I start to embed some of that into my current schedule? Like, there's nothing holding me back. I very rarely have meetings after 3:30 most days, unless I'm working with someone on the East Coast or somewhere else. So what's holding me back from like doing that last hour or two of

• 38:08Speaker 01

  work right now versus eight or nine o'clock, or just tomorrow, in all honesty? So I like to be thinking through like, what is your ideal day look like if money wasn't an issue? Like, if you didn't have to work, if you didn't need to show up to that nine to five? Now, let's start to reverse engineer that and figure out throughout this process, how can we start to add more of that into your day to day? So it could be a silly rule like mine, where you're off at 3:30 if it's a nice day. Maybe you're somebody that doesn't like to do meetings a lot. So you do no meetings before 10 a.m. or meetingless Mondays. Like, that could be something that you try to add in. Or like, you don't have to work full time, but you still want to work a little bit. Can you negotiate from a five day to a four day or a three day? Like, I think, starting to think

• 38:53Speaker 01

  Through what your ideal day or week or month looks like whenever you are in your retirement stage, how can you start to add some of those things right now as you're pursuing financial independence?

• 39:04Andrew Giancola?

  I completely agree, and I do this exercise quarterly. So I go every single quarter and I will go back and look at what is my ideal day? What exactly would I do if I had a perfect day? Maybe it's being productive and sometimes I'll do it on a work day and I'll do it on a weekend. And I'll pull out a piece of paper and I will go through and actually map out my exact perfect day. And then I will go back because I do my goals quarterly. I do them every 12 weeks and I'll go back and look at my goals every single month and I will say, how can I make sure that my goals are going towards this perfect day? And so I go and I will look at that every single quarter because this is so incredibly important, I think, is to create that flexibility. And so a lot of rules have come out of just doing this exercise. For example, like what you were just talking about, I take zero meetings typically, except for on Mondays before noon. And the reason

• 39:48Andrew Giancola?

  I do that is because that's my most productive time. And so for me specifically, I want to make sure I can do all of my deep work before that timeframe. A lot of other things came out of that as well, like making sure that when I am done with work later on in the day in that gap where I'm spending time with my kids, I just do not have any, you know, electronics or anything around me during that timeframe because I want to be present. There's a lot of different things that kind of have developed over that timeframe, even when it comes to health and fitness. I want to prioritize health and fitness and make sure it is one of my top priorities. So what does that look like? When can I do that? What are some timeframes I can do that? And so I try to integrate all of that into this to make sure you have the time available for this. And that's what I love about flex scheduling as well is because if you want to take time for yourself or you want to have

• 40:31Andrew Giancola?

  some flexibility, you can do that, you can map it out, but it's just kind of being intentional when it comes to this. So what are some boundaries that you set? Are there specific boundaries that you set for yourself when it comes to flex scheduling? And what are some thoughts or things that you have surrounding that? And how has it impacted your productivity as well?

• 40:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mentioned the no meetings before 10 a.m. That's definitely something I do. My best deep work is before 10 a.m. I usually about 7 to 10 ish. I like to be focused on that one or two important projects that are really got to move the needle. So that's an important boundary for me. The 3:30 nice day rule is a big boundary of mine. I try not to do anything on Sunday that I wouldn't want to do, like just for fun. So if there's like a project I'm really excited and I've just been itching to get into it, I'll work on it on a Sunday, but I do nothing. I don't schedule any meetings. I don't really even schedule anything with friends on Sunday. Like, I just want to like wake up on a Sunday and whatever I'm feeling like doing is what I want to do that day. And sometimes it is hang out with friends.

• 41:29Speaker 01

  It's sometimes it is a project that I've like really been itching to do, but I couldn't make time for it this week. But yeah, my Sunday free day is a huge goal of mine and it just helps level set and get me right for Monday morning. And then I, I go hard again on Monday morning because I'm like usually ready to, to start working again.

• 41:46Andrew Giancola?

  Now, if somebody wants more flexibility in their schedule, maybe they want to just have more time for themselves, or maybe they want a day where they can focus on productivity, or maybe it's a side hustle or something else. How can they negotiate this? What are some things they could do? Could they negotiate a four day work week with their boss? Could they negotiate working from home? Or what are your thoughts on that, on how they could maybe create more flexibility in their schedule? If they're working a hard nine to five right now?

• 42:08Speaker 01

  I think both of those suggestions that you just mentioned there, the four day work week, or a work from home day, if that's important to you. It could be the, the no meetings before 10. And, you know, I, whenever I was working, I let my boss know this and she's like, yeah, that totally makes sense for me. I'd much rather you like focus on the needle moving projects than be at meetings. So if you want to block your calendar prior to 10, cool. As long as like, if anything urgent comes up, I can reach out to you during that time. That's great. So I think most bosses would be pretty receptive to this if you have a logical argument for it and you're a top performer. And it probably goes hand in hand with your plan for negotiating a raise. You can negotiate other things, not just monetary things, but negotiate other things.

• 42:50Speaker 01

  So if they pair that with your process for negotiating a raise, but instead they negotiate a work from home policy or a four day work week, you know, proving that you're a top performer and that you can still get your things done and the boundaries that you set and demonstrating why these new boundaries that you are setting are going to improve your productivity, it's an easy yes for me as a manager.

• 43:10Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely, and I think that's one of those things that a lot of managers will look at that and be able to kind of see that outcome, especially if they're looking at this in a logical way, and be able to do that. I have a very close friend who's a very high performer at a really large national bank, and here's a great example of this. And he is a pickleball addict, like he's obsessed with pickleball, and he figured out a way to block off his calendar in the morning where from like 7:00 a.m. to 10:00 a.m., they allow him to go play pickleball if he wants to go play pickleball, and he does that every single day. And then he's a really high performer the rest of the day, but he created this flexibility into his schedule, even though he works a standard nine to five, he figured out how to create flexibility in his schedule because he's such a high performer. So there's so many different examples of that where you can kind of do some pretty cool things as well. So I think I love having a flexible schedule, and it just creates more fulfillment,

• 43:55Andrew Giancola?

  and it kind of reduces stress and anxiety and everything else around your job.

• 43:58Speaker 01

  This is the fun part of being a part of the financial independence movement. So many people think differently about work, like they're kind of prioritizing their life, and then they're fitting work into their life versus the reverse. So many people have to like fit their life around work, and the nine to five schedule is just not optimal for everybody. Like if you're a parent, you might need a different kind of flexibility. Or someone, I was at an economy conference, which is a financial independence conference. I was just there, and it was so fun talking to all these nomads, or van lifers, or RV living type people, and how they're doing work, but they're like doing work on their own terms or their own schedule. And they've negotiated, "I'm gonna work out of my camper van for a month and not be in the office."

• 44:42Speaker 01

  And I love that money, that F-U money that you build over time, kind of gives you the opportunity to be like, "This is my proposition." And if you can't fit into that, it totally makes sense, that's fair, that's fine if you guys got rules at this company, but like, "I'm willing to walk away in order to get this five flexibility that I want and find a different job that might fit."

• 45:01Andrew Giancola?

  How do you see things like when people will kind of create some of this flexibility? Do you think there are seasons and times where you need to kind of put your foot on the gas and really, really work hard? And then are there times where maybe you take your foot off the gas and you kind of have a little more time? For example, maybe you're working on a huge project at your company and you're working 12-hour days for three days in a row or something like that crazy. And then do you see that there's times where you can kind of figure out and map this out throughout the year? Where maybe there are times where you go really, really hard and become that high performer? And then there are other times where you could take your foot off the gas? Maybe it's seasonality or something else? Or how do you look at things like that?

• 45:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think that was really well said. And I don't even think five flex schedules have to be like a permanent or ongoing thing. It could be a seasonality thing too. Like tax prep people, I am guessing they are super busy from January to May-June-ish. And they can probably have a lot more flexibility to negotiate a five flex schedule July till the end of the year. Like they might have to take client meetings, they might have to do some extended tax stuff or do some coaching with clients. But they probably have a lot of opportunity to build in some of these things, knowing that they're probably going to be a little overworked coming out of the tax season too. And I think that would totally make sense. And so many other jobs, it's the same way. A lot of things shut down after Thanksgiving, like that Thanksgiving to New Year's timeframe.

• 46:17Speaker 01

  People are doing like business critical or BAU type stuff, but like everything else, projects, they kind of like fall by the wayside. So that might be a good time. Like maybe from Christmas to New Year's, you can take off and you can build in some flexibility. Or you can drop down to four days a week during that five or six day period or through the summer. If you're, I mean, there are so many opportunities dependent on your occupation and career path that you might be able to strategically think through, where can I add or make this ask? That wouldn't even be a hard ask because of my occupation or industry recognizes that there needs to be a little flexibility here.

• 46:52Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely. And I even think, you know, I know guys that were in sales, for example, who, you know, the first six months out of the year, they have to hit these quotas. But once they hit that quota, they can kind of take their foot off the gas and almost kind of do nothing for the second half of the year. And I think there's just so many jobs like that where people can look at, you know, ways to develop these systems and put this together where you can figure out, hey, I put my foot on the gas.

• 47:10Andrew Giancola?

  Gas for a couple of months, then I take it off and I put my foot in the gas for a couple of months and take it off. And there's some fulfillment with that as well. I think achieving things is one of those things, especially if you're type A like Justin and I are. Achieving some of those things are really, really impactful in your life, but then you also want to make sure that you give yourself time to recharge, rest, relax, those types of things. For sure. So I think it's a big, big difference. I want to shift gears here to questions that we ask a lot of our guests. And these are some of my favorite questions to ask our guests. Sometimes we mix them up at times as well, but I just want to kind of get some of your answers on this as we go through this. So what part of your work or life makes you come alive?

• 47:48Speaker 01

  Podcasting. I absolutely love podcasting. I've interviewed you twice and I hope it comes across whenever I'm interviewing you. But doing prep research for my interviews and then having the conversation, I'm usually so stoked to finally have that conversation. Cause I've done eight, 10 hours of prep leading up to this. I've learned so much from this guest that I'm like super stoked to have the conversation. So yeah, I, I light up anytime I get to do stuff with podcasting.

• 48:09Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely. And Justin is one of the most prepared podcast hosts I've ever seen. So it is absolutely amazing when you do that, which I absolutely love. What is your biggest fear when it comes to money?

• 48:20Speaker 01

  Probably running out of it. That might be cliche, but I think I am slowly trying to overcome a scarcity mindset. I think so many people that grew up frugal probably have to overcome this and just running out of money. I'm that dude that's like every month I rerun the numbers, although they didn't change that much. And I'm just like, you know, Justin, just like let, let it go. Like you're going to be fine. You're super smart. You know how to make money. You can always retreat back and live probably 30, 40, $50,000 lifestyle if you need to like, it is okay. You are so smart and adaptable. You don't need to be worrying about money anymore.

• 48:54Andrew Giancola?

  I struggle with this same exact thing and I still, even today, like still just think about that all the time. What if I run out? What if it all disappears? So it's just one of those things. I think a lot of people have that same kind of thought process when it comes to one of their biggest fears for sure. How do you plan to level up your finances this year?

• 49:12Speaker 01

  Ooh, the big thing that I've been doing this year is simplifying. Like, I'm trying not to optimize too much with like, uh, credit cards here and here and my high-yield savings account over there. Like, I was like, uh, I really just want to like, log into one place, kind of get the most optimal but simple approach. So like, I've been consolidating a lot of things into one or two or three providers and not necessarily card chasing or doing anything like that. Like, I love interviewing travel hackers. Chris Hudson's coming on the show next week and I'm super stoked to pick his brain about some of these things. But also, as I'm approaching financial independence, I'm like, uh, it, it just matters less to me and I'd rather just have some peace of mind and simplicity whenever it comes to my finances.

• 49:51Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely. And that, that is the number one thing that I try to tell people as well is try to simplify, reduce the amount of accounts that you have. Put them all in one place. Just make it easier on your life because just, you know, rate chasing on high-yield savings accounts or whatever else is just really, really something that less. Some people love it. Like, if you absolutely love it, then go for it. You know, more power to you. Uh, but for me, I'm not one of those people either. So like, I just kind of, hey, I've had the same high-yield savings account for years now and it's just one of those things, uh, that I'm not willing to rate chasing more now. If it's a big drastic difference, obviously I would, but I agree with you. Simplification is a definite way to level up your finances and make it much, much easier. So what legacy, at some point in time, when you have kids, what legacy do you want to leave your kids if you had them?

• 50:33Speaker 01

  I am very appreciative of my dad and everything he did for me, setting me up for personal finance. Like, I'm 31 here. I probably don't really have to worry about money too much the rest of my life and I almost give 100% of that credit to my dad. He instilled a hardworking mindset into me, a super saver mentality. But the one thing that I'd really like to encourage my kids to is to find some balance between setting up your future self and really, really enjoying the current moments. And I don't regret a ton in my life, but there are moments that I wish I would have gotten a push from a different direction, the other side of the pendulum that said, hey, you know, like, go study abroad. Like, you don't have to worry about working this semester. Like, that's totally fine.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  Or even the push into my sabbatical. Like, it kind of took me a little bit longer, although I probably knew it three months prior. Like, I wish someone kind of just shoved me straight into it. And I think a lot of that was just stemmed from, from a little bit of scarcity mindset that I was talking about and not wanting to disappoint my parents. So I just want to find a good balance with my kids of like, taking care of your future self and being able to be independent, but also like, Enjoying the life because tomorrow's not a for certain.

• 51:40Andrew Giancola?

  I love that. What is the best money advice you've ever received?

• 51:45Speaker 01

  Probably a recent one is you can always make more money, but you can't get more time back. And I've been trying to instill a little bit more of that. I mean, I have so much great wisdom throughout the entire year or throughout the last couple of decades that at that moment was really, really important. But for the piece of advice that's really resonating right now, that was given to me and that's really had me rethinking a lot of stuff right now.

• 52:07Andrew Giancola?

  I think about that a lot too. And I think it's one of those things that time is something that I think most people don't think enough about. And for the most part, if you look at everybody who is on their deathbed, the biggest thing they regret, it's always time related. And a lot of times I think most of us probably need to either, you know, think through our time. It almost keeps like a time budget type of thing because it's so important. It's so precious and it goes by so fast. I even like see, you know, my kids' lives and how, you know, they're my oldest is almost seven now. And it's just one of those things where I felt like we just had him and it's crazy because he's like almost 50% of the way, you know, out of our house. So it's, it's just a, it's just a crazy process and it's so interesting that if we don't value our time, it's going to be something we all regret. So I think that's a huge one for sure. The last one is my favorite and this is one we've gotten some cool answers on. But what does wealth mean to you?

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Ooh, freedom, freedom, optionality, flexibility. All three of those words are super important to me. Whenever I think about wealth, it's not necessarily the person with the most amount of commas in their net worth, but the person that has the most amount of flexibility, freedom and optionality, whenever it comes to how they're spending their time day to day.

• 53:13Andrew Giancola?

  I love that. And I think you embody this throughout this entire episode, I think for sure, just showing, you know, how much freedom that you can kind of develop just by building wealth over time. Well, Justin, this has been absolutely amazing. Thank you so much for coming on here. Where can people find out more about you, your podcast and everything else?

• 53:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. Fine Minded on any of the podcast players, whatever you're listening to right now. I'd love it if you came and checked it out. The most recent episode is probably with Andrew. We talked about how to double your income in one year. He gave some really good tips and tactics on how to do that. But for all the things around achieving financial independence and having fun while you're doing it, come check out Fine Minded.

• 53:48Andrew Giancola?

  Absolutely. And I highly, highly recommend that it is amazing show. So everybody, please go check it out. Thank you, Justin, again, so much for being here and I can't wait to have you back.

• 54:10Speaker 03

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