#2426 - Cameron Hanes & Adam Greentree

Cameron Hanes is a master bowhunter, outdoorsman, elite athlete, author, and a host of the podcasts “Keep Hammering Collective," "Sh*t Talkers Weekly," and "Lift. Run. Shoot." His most recent book is "Undeniable: How to Reach the Top and Stay There." www.cameronhanes.com www.youtube.com/@cameronhaneshttps://us.macmillan.com/books/9781250365941/undeniable/ Adam Greentree is an Australian bowhunter, photographer, outdoorsman, and entrepreneur.www.youtube.com/@adamgreentree9135www.atlaswild.com.au Perplexity: Download the app or ask Perplexity anything at https://pplx.ai/rogan. Go to https://ExpressVPN.com/ROGAN to get 4 months free! Don’t miss out on all the action - Download the DraftKings app today! Sign-up at https://dkng.co/rogan or with my promo code ROGAN GAMBLING PROBLEM? CALL 1-800-GAMBLER, (800) 327-5050 or visit gamblinghelplinema.org (MA). Call 877-8-HOPENY/text HOPENY (467369) (NY). Please Gamble Responsibly. 888-789-7777/visit ccpg.org (CT), or visit www.mdgamblinghelp.org (MD). 21+ and present in most states. (18+ DC/KY/NH/WY). Void in ONT/OR/NH. Eligibility restrictions apply. On behalf of Boot Hill Casino & Resort (KS). Pass-thru of per wager tax may apply in IL. 1 per new customer. Must register new account to receive reward Token. Must select Token BEFORE placing min. $5 bet to receive $200 in Bonus Bets if your bet wins. Min. -500 odds req. Token and Bonus Bets are single-use and non-withdrawable. Token expires 1/11/26. Bonus Bets expire in 7 days (168 hours). Stake removed from payout. Terms: sportsbook.draftkings.com/promos. Ends 1/4/26 at 11:59 PM ET. Sponsored by DK. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:02Speaker 00

  The Joe Rogan Experience.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Training by day, Joe Rogan Podcast by night, all day.

• 0:12Speaker 01

  We're live. We're live.

• 0:14Joe Rogan?

  Gentlemen, what's happening?

• 0:15Speaker 01

  What is going on?

• 0:16Joe Rogan?

  Good to see you. Good to see you guys again.

• 0:18Speaker 01

  Bow Hunting Brothers.

• 0:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we were just talking about the mountain lion that we have in the lobby and how insane that thing is. So Adam, you shot that mountain lion when?

• 0:27Speaker 03

  I think it was about six or seven years ago now.

• 0:28Joe Rogan?

  And you ate it and I ate some of it. You sent some to me. It's really good, believe it or not, ladies and gentlemen.

• 0:34Speaker 03

  You wouldn't think so, but it's incredible.

• 0:36Joe Rogan?

  Everybody says it's like, they, the way they describe it is like a, I think Rinella said this, a superior pork.

• 0:41Speaker 03

  Yeah. Yeah. It's like, I, I think of it as a cross between venison and chicken. And then, and I only did it quick on the barbecue and I'm not a great cook, but it was that tender and that tasty.

• 0:53Joe Rogan?

  But the, the story behind the mountain lion's nuts. Like that was a, like a murderous mountain lion.

• 0:58Speaker 03

  It was, I felt a bit funny about it to start with because like the dogs do all the hunting, right? The dogs smell it, dogs find it. They put it up in a tree, but the further I looked into it, I'm like, well, you need the tree because you want to sex it and you want to age it, you know, you want to make sure it's a lion that's, you know, old and it has to be a male to shoot it in Colorado, at least at the time you had to anyway. So it was actually the perfect way to hunt, but then seeing how destructive that individual lion was at least. Um, I was telling Cam about this when we got here that it must've grabbed the cow, like a beef cow. It must've grabbed it on the neck. Um, and the cow couldn't move, you know, but it was still fully alive internally

• 1:40Speaker 03

  and vocally it was still alive. And when we got there, the mountain lion was like eating it from its rear end. And it'd been there for at least an hour or two because there was quite a lot of meat that had been eaten out from the cow's ass. And, um,

• 1:55Speaker 01

  Kicking its hooves.

• 1:56Speaker 03

  Yeah. And it just, but the cow couldn't get up. So it was, it was literally eating it while it was still alive. And as the dogs are running down there, you could hear this cow off in the distance, just like screaming, like mooing flat out. And you could tell something was wrong. The dogs got there, the lion ran off. Uh, we end up calling the rancher in, the rancher come out, put the cow out of its misery, still screaming on the ground right in front of me. I was, hey, I was teared up, like, you know, like I don't like suffering like the next person. Um. So it was a very horrible moment. So then it was like, n- now I'm into it. Like now I'm into finding this lion.

• 2:33Joe Rogan?

  It's it's like a werewolf's loose in your town.

• 2:36Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 2:37Joe Rogan?

  You know, having that, how much did that cat weigh, by the way?

• 2:40Speaker 03

  I.

• 2:41Joe Rogan?

  By the way?

• 2:41Speaker 03

  I I held it up for size and um I could hold it for maybe thirty seconds. And I literally couldn't hold it up anymore. And I was trying to show the size of, you know, how big that lion was.

• 2:54Joe Rogan?

  It looks like it's at least a hundred fifty pounds, right?

• 2:56Speaker 03

  It's giant. So it's like.

• 2:58Joe Rogan?

  One seventy, that's what you think it would be on the on the paw, I guess, as it were.

• 3:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, live. Yeah, that's a big animal.

• 3:05Joe Rogan?

  We were standing out in front of it, like going, imagine if this thing jumped on you.

• 3:08Speaker 03

  It's a living monster.

• 3:09Joe Rogan?

  It is a monster. It's a real monster.

• 3:12Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 3:12Joe Rogan?

  And he's he's like, oh, they ha- they kill their animal, their prey first. No, they don't just make sure it doesn't move anymore.

• 3:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, just whatever's good for eating.

• 3:19Joe Rogan?

  They'll just start eating it.

• 3:20Speaker 03

  Whatever's good for eating, it's on.

• 3:22Speaker 01

  They like, we're the only thing that has compassion in the wild, you know, like the putting it out of the misery like the rancher did. You know, that's one thing about hunters, ranchers. W- we do appreciate life and death, and there is a time where, hey, let's put it out of its misery. But it's a, yeah, it's, man is the only one who thinks about that. An animal, they'll just start eating. They could care less about, they don't even know about pain, really, or

• 3:45Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 3:46Speaker 01

  being merciful or anything like that. It's just, it's what we do.

• 3:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, I always say like the lion in Africa, like it stripes a zebra across the back end. And the zebra gets away and it's just got like blood pouring out of it and it's got this horrible wound that it's gonna have to live with. That lion has not lost any sleep over that ever in its life. It's just, it's not even a thought, you know?

• 4:09Joe Rogan?

  It's just fascinating that all these different creatures exist with us, because we're so insulated, for the most part, like most people. Are so insulated, living in cities, traveling on buses and planes and cars and never, never seeing a thing like this in real life.

• 4:26Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 4:27Joe Rogan?

  And you realize, like, at the same time, where you're going to Starbucks and, you know, you're you're picking out the new iPhone. Th- there's a lion running full speed at a herd of zebras right now.

• 4:38Speaker 01

  Hmm, yeah.

• 4:39Joe Rogan?

  Like, right now, in the world, there's a lion, full speed at the zebra, and it's gonna tackle it, it's gonna grab it by its face. And all these animals exist to keep each other in check. That's the real beauty of nature and you really see it when we saw that. We were out yesterday, Cam and I were, we were hunting for pigs and we saw a feral cat make a pounce on a mouse. Like we were in the perfect, it was one of the coolest things. Cause even though like it's a kitty cat, like a little tiny kitty cat, little, it was fluffy too, it was kinda cute. We watched a predator in the rare moment when you see him executing a kill. I mean, it was only a feral cat, but it was still, we saw, we saw his little butt wiggle.

• 5:22Joe Rogan?

  We saw that thing that they do with it, and then up in the air, we're like, that is cool. It was so wild.

• 5:28Speaker 01

  And that's going on multiple places throughout on our planet, right now, you know, right now, as you said.

• 5:34Joe Rogan?

  Everywhere.

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's like if you could have like zoom in on a little camera, all these little

• 5:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:38Speaker 01

  interactions of predator prey or, I mean, that's happening.

• 5:42Joe Rogan?

  Well, if you could see it all at once, like if there was a camera on every single predator prey encounter simultaneously in the world and it was broadcast on a screen that was like 700 feet high, you would think, oh my God, we're at war. There's a war in the natural world, it's a constant war.

• 5:59Speaker 03

  Planet.

• 6:00Joe Rogan?

  Just cats alone, have you ever seen the numbers of what feral cats alone, just house cats kill? It's literally in the billions in North America, billions every year.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Nonstop killing.

• 6:12Joe Rogan?

  Imagine how many rats there would be if the cats weren't out there.

• 6:15Speaker 03

  Oh yeah, 100%.

• 6:16Joe Rogan?

  Like it's all, there's a balance to it, all you, oh my God, these cats are killing everything, right? Imagine how many fucking mice would be out there if there weren't cats.

• 6:25Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's true.

• 6:25Joe Rogan?

  It's all balance.

• 6:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, that, to Adam's point about his lion in Colorado, it's so managed. Um, that, that, that animal actually probably could have been killed off, uh, like because it was killing livestock, you know, but. When you kill an lion in Colorado, it's very detailed, very documented and tracked. It's like you can only take, like in the unit I was hunting lion, I didn't kill one, but you could only kill thirty-five in a year. And every time a lion comes in, they they catalog it, check it, um, get it, you know, all the information in there. And then that's one of the thirty-five. Once you reach thirty-five quota, you're done.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  You're done.

• 7:07Joe Rogan?

  And then let's put this in perspective, because if that doesn't happen, and by the way, all that money goes back to the state, goes to game wardens. It helps everybody, helps conservation. If you don't have that, you know what you have? You have what's going on in Japan, where Japan is having massive brown bear attacks. So just last year, they had a kill, I think it was one thousand, it's at least one thousand. I think it was more than one thousand bears last year.

• 7:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 7:33Joe Rogan?

  And this year is projected to be even higher than last year. So the bears that the fucking military has to go in and they're having a war on giant brown bears.

• 7:43Speaker 01

  They're killing, I don't know how many people already this year.

• 7:45Joe Rogan?

  A shit ton.

• 7:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 7:47Joe Rogan?

  A shit ton. Jamie, put that into perplexity, our sponsor. How many people have been killed in Japan by grizzly bears? Or, well, they're not grizzly bears, but they're essentially brown bears.

• 7:57Speaker 03

  They're a type of brown bear, yeah.

• 7:57Joe Rogan?

  They're a brown bear. Record surge of brown bear attacks in twenty twenty-five with at least thirteen fatalities and over two hundred injuries. Holy fuck, ma- making it the deadliest year for bear attacks in recent history. Majority of fatal attacks have occurred in Hodo.

• 8:13Speaker 03

  Hokkaido.

• 8:14Joe Rogan?

  Hokkaido, Hokkaido, where brown bears are more prevalent and the number of attacks has prompted emergency responses, including the deployment of military personnel in some regions. Dude, I've been hearing people in Montana and people in Wyoming that have been saying, we're seeing more brown bears than ever before. Guys are going on elk hunts and get freaked out. And they're like, they have to delist these fucking things, like they're totally fearless. They've they've never been hunted, so they have no fear of humans. How many guys have you heard where the gun goes off? And the bear shows up after the gun goes off, because it knows that the elk is down or the moose is down?

• 8:52Speaker 03

  Like a dinner bell.

• 8:52Joe Rogan?

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• 9:35Joe Rogan?

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• 11:14Speaker 03

  I flew into Haikido, Japan had a period where they would let foreigners hunt and it had to be of a bow and I was chasing seeker stag over there and I had no idea they had a brown bear at all and I was going through this big reedy area like you know the reeds are up above your head and there was just a game trail going in there like that the deer had been using and as I was going through there I could see that it was starting to open up a little bit more like a flattened out section maybe like where the deer had been bedded and I got in there and there was a seeker deer just like the rib cage all chewed out and it was just a big muddy clearing

• 11:54Speaker 03

  where this brown bear had got in there and just like rolled around with this carcass but the prints in the mud were like that I had no like I had no idea there was even bears there so

• 12:05Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute, what year is this?

• 12:07Speaker 03

  It'd have to be 10 or 11 years ago now.

• 12:10Joe Rogan?

  But Google was still around, right?

• 12:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 12:12Joe Rogan?

  You didn't check? You didn't go, hey, what's in the area?

• 12:15Speaker 03

  I started messaging the outfitter and being like, dude, there's bears here.

• 12:21Joe Rogan?

  Look at that bear.

• 12:22Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then he started telling me that it's some of the biggest brown bears there is.

• 12:28Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that bear fucked up that guy's hood.

• 12:30Speaker 03

  That's a big, that's a big bear. But the police force, because I believe there was an unarmed police force at the time, they had an issue with a bear where it had killed two hunters there and he had to go in and shoot this bear, he had photos on a tractor and I don't do the gruesome photos but he's just flicking through his phone and the next photo is a guy with his face missing from this brown bear attack and another photo, the bear, when he went in to shoot the bear, the bear was in a stream, holding the guy down in the water, eating him in the water. And like so, yeah, pretty gruesome. So it's pretty full on. But up until that point, I'd never even knew there was a brown bear in Japan.

• 13:12Joe Rogan?

  Bruh, before you go someplace with a bow.

• 13:15Speaker 03

  That makes sense.

• 13:15Joe Rogan?

  Do a cursory internet search.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  I'm from Australia, like, come on.

• 13:20Joe Rogan?

  You guys have the internet? Shut the fuck up. You were telling me some Starlink things going by.

• 13:25Speaker 01

  They're way, they're way behind in Australia, though.

• 13:28Speaker 03

  Talk about that one.

• 13:29Speaker 01

  They just got the internet.

• 13:30Joe Rogan?

  This guy is a traveling bow hunter and he doesn't check to see if there's enormous monsters living in the same neighborhood.

• 13:36Speaker 03

  Of the unknown.

• 13:37Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's cute. That's cute. Look, there's plenty of unknown out there. You know, you don't need to add to it.

• 13:45Speaker 03

  It's all disappearing. All unknowns disappearing because of the internet.

• 13:48Joe Rogan?

  A little bit.

• 13:49Speaker 01

  Another layer to that Japan story is the reason why they have to deploy the military is because all the hunters are aging out. So there was hunters there, but because hunting is kind of like this dying thing for this next generation, there's not enough hunters, so they have to get the military involved. Otherwise, it would be hunters like, you know, you going over there and they've talked about like, I mean, I know there's Americans who would volunteer to do it, but that's another part of it is this next generation just isn't hunting.

• 14:17Joe Rogan?

  I have another question. Jamie, put this into perplexity, please. Um, how many mountain lions were killed with depredation tags in 2024 in California? Because what I had read on a forum, so it has to be correct, because those guys are all experts.

• 14:34Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 14:34Joe Rogan?

  But I had read that an equal number of mountain lions had been killed with depredation tags by like experts with dogs like to bring them in, than if they'd given tags out. So if they'd given tags out and let people mountain lion hunt, you would have the exact same amount of mountain lions that they had to kill. And instead of that, you would have revenue.

• 14:56Speaker 03

  Yeah, money going.

• 14:57Joe Rogan?

  Instead of paying, instead of the opposite, right, instead of paying.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  And the collection of the meat, obviously.

• 15:01Joe Rogan?

  California's not yet published a full 2025 total, but the best available data as of July 2025 shows at least 167 mountain lions reported taken under depredation permits in 2020 and 166 in 2020.

• 15:15Joe Rogan?

  Two with annual totals of over a hundred in recent years. So every year they have to kill kill at least a hundred mountain lions.

• 15:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:22Joe Rogan?

  Probably quite a bit more. It looks like sixty seven more, sixty six more.

• 15:27Speaker 01

  And I would say it's only went up since then.

• 15:29Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, well, the thing is like they're doing nothing to curb the population. And this is the thing is like people go, oh, it's okay. Let nature do its thing. No, it doesn't do its thing. It kills your dog. Okay. One of the things they found out in San Francisco in the Bay Area was when they do shoot these mountain lions. They've done an analysis of their diet. It's fifty percent dogs and cats.

• 15:49Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 15:50Joe Rogan?

  Fifty percent of their diet is eating people's pets. So they're hunting people's pets. That means you are, if you're a dog lover, you're allowing a monster to eat your dog. Because you think that's the right thing to do and to be kind with nature. Hee wee. No, you have to hunt them. You have to get them the fuck away from you. And keep a healthy population of them. And if you don't do that, it comes back to bite you in the dick.

• 16:15Speaker 01

  Here's, here's one other search, Jamie. Can you see how many mountain lions were taken in Oregon legally? Because that would be like Oregon's, of course, just right north of California. Let's compare the legal harvest in or in a state that hunt. We can't use dogs, but you can kill them when you see them. You can buy a tag and the season.

• 16:34Joe Rogan?

  That's very difficult to kill them, right? If you can't use dogs.

• 16:36Speaker 01

  The season, to do that, they have to have the season open all year. And they just hope enough for getting killed. But then they still have to kill deprive depredation.

• 16:44Joe Rogan?

  And is that a situation where you you buy like a mountain lion tag, like just an extra tag? And you just have it just in case you run into one? So if you're out in the wilderness and you're hunting elk, but you have a mountain lion tag.

• 16:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's it. So we were hoping, you know, if you see one, basically I have a bear tag, lion tag, deer and elk.

• 17:03Joe Rogan?

  It says Oregon kills far more cougars each year than California. But those Oregon numbers can come mainly from sport hunting and agency control, not from depredation tags. Oh, wait a minute. Agency control is what we're looking at, not depredation. Um, so what is the numbers here? One sixty. Rework the question. Yeah, let's reword the question and ask how many were killed in California from agency control?

• 17:27Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 17:28Joe Rogan?

  Put that in there. How many mountain lions were killed in California? Through agency control?

• 17:38Joe Rogan?

  Because we were just looking at depredation tax, which is like what a hunter or, excuse me, a farmer gets.

• 17:43Speaker 01

  So it says in Oregon that we could kill 970, but that they never kill that many.

• 17:50Joe Rogan?

  Okay, they did not publish a clean statewide tally labeled specifically as agency control mountain lion kills. And current official tables group most lethal removals under depredation permits rather than separate agency control category. As a result, there's no single publicly available number that states how many mountain lions were killed through agency control alone. Let's just put this in. How many mountain lions were killed in California in 2024? Just period. Let's just ask that question.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 18:22Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know where we'd get this data.

• 18:24Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 18:27Speaker 01

  It'd have to be fishing game.

• 18:41Joe Rogan?

  Hmm, that doesn't make any sense. Oh, so they're saying these fig- this figure does not include deaths from vehicles, but that's not true. Because they just said earlier that it was 100 and, okay.

• 18:52Speaker 01

  480 depredation incidents.

• 18:55Joe Rogan?

  And 222 depredation permits. Out of those permits, 52 authorized lethal take and 20 mountain lions were actually reported as lethally taken on depredation permits. That's weird. This is totally different numbers than it was giving us before. So now it's only saying it was 52 authorized lethal ones.

• 19:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:14Joe Rogan?

  Huh.

• 19:14Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 19:16Joe Rogan?

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• 20:43Joe Rogan?

  And if you're watching on YouTube, you can get four extra months by scanning the QR code on screen or by clicking the link in the description. What says, oh, say, okay, it says of the permits, 52 were authorized to kill them. So it says lethal take. So it's authorized to kill them and 20 were actually reported as lethally killed. So they're saying it's only 20. That seems kooky.

• 21:08Speaker 01

  But that is, that's for like a ranch owner to do the killing.

• 21:13Joe Rogan?

  Okay.

• 21:14Speaker 01

  So they, they say, hey, this lion's been killing my calves 480 times. And 222 of those, they said, okay, go ahead and kill the lion.

• 21:22Joe Rogan?

  Okay, right. So this is permits that were released rather than the agency doing the depredation work.

• 21:27Speaker 01

  Right. So you would add this total to the other number we have.

• 21:31Joe Rogan?

  Right. Because the depredation thing too, you gotta think it's ranchers, right? So these guys are all out in the middle of nowhere. A lot of the depredations though, that they might be listing is what we were talking about with San Francisco, where they found that they're eating people's cats and dogs. So maybe they get depredations. It's not like, but you can't give it out to the fucking homeowner.

• 21:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 21:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. So you only give those tags out to ranchers, it seems like.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. The people that have livestock that's being lost.

• 21:57Joe Rogan?

  The depredation is probably done by some sort of a government guy.

• 22:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. They would call it, they would call it something other than depredation.

• 22:03Joe Rogan?

  Do you think he uses dogs? How do you think they get them?

• 22:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, or snare. Like in Oregon.

• 22:10Speaker 01

  Wayne has done this where people they're losing their goats, their calves, something like sheep, something like that, and then they'll let you snare it. So you can go in there, you take pictures of the animals that are killed and another.

• 22:24Joe Rogan?

  Snaring is brutal.

• 22:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Or trap.

• 22:28Speaker 03

  Trap.

• 22:28Speaker 01

  Basically, it's a foothold. Yeah.

• 22:31Joe Rogan?

  In Texas, they treat them like coyotes.

• 22:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 22:34Joe Rogan?

  You just whack them.

• 22:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, well.

• 22:37Joe Rogan?

  I think that's the way to go because I think they're so hard to see, they're so hard to find.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Different politics.

• 22:42Speaker 03

  I've seen maybe two in all the hunting that I've done, just naturally in the wild. And you would have seen more, but it's not a big number. They're out there, but they're just so sneaky.

• 22:52Joe Rogan?

  Oh, they're so fucking sneaky. We saw one, I told you the story, we saw the one in Utah with Colton.

• 22:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, huge one.

• 22:58Joe Rogan?

  Like that one, he was like as big as yours. It was fucking terrifying, inside of a car, thirty yards away, and I'm shitting my pants. I'm not even.

• 23:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:07Joe Rogan?

  And we're armed, you know, and we have bows, we have, you know.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  The, the difference between Oregon and California and Texas, you know, Texas being able to shoot them like coyotes is that's politics, you know.

• 23:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 23:18Speaker 01

  Of course, the west coast is liberal.

• 23:20Joe Rogan?

  Well, Utah changed it, though. Utah has it now like coyotes.

• 23:23Speaker 01

  Perfect.

• 23:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's how it should be.

• 23:25Speaker 03

  I think there has to be like management behind it.

• 23:28Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know if you have to have a tag in Utah anymore. Let's find that out. Um, put that search in. Do you need a tag to get, uh, to hunt mountain lion in Utah? Maybe they just give out over the counter tags to anybody who wants them and they're still collecting revenue, which is ideal. That's the best way to do it.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:44Speaker 03

  And if the numbers are great enough, then, yeah.

• 23:47Joe Rogan?

  But Texas doesn't even do that. They go, no, we don't want to get involved. You go ahead and shoot them. And it's a fucking monster in your backyard.

• 23:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:55Joe Rogan?

  The business coming from someone who loves them.

• 23:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 23:58Joe Rogan?

  I love them. I love mountain lions. They're amazing. Okay, yes, you must have a valid Utah hunting or combination hunting fishing license to hunt mountain lions, but you do not need a separate cougar tag. Okay, so it is like a coyote.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's year round harvest for licensed hunters and you just have to get it checked in after you kill.

• 24:14Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 24:14Speaker 01

  Within forty eight hours.

• 24:15Joe Rogan?

  Which is also smart.

• 24:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:17Joe Rogan?

  Cause they want to know what it's been eating.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  Now, that's how you do it.

• 24:19Speaker 03

  That's what I've done with mine.

• 24:20Joe Rogan?

  That's how you do it. Utah, way to go.

• 24:22Speaker 01

  Good job.

• 24:22Joe Rogan?

  That's the right way to do it. And of course you should have a hunting license. I think you have to have one in Texas as well to hunt anything.

• 24:28Speaker 01

  This, uh, talking about this, this.

• 24:30Joe Rogan?

  Actually, that's not true, right?

• 24:32Speaker 01

  What?

• 24:32Joe Rogan?

  Now I'm thinking that, no, I think in Texas, you don't even need a hunting license to hunt exotics.

• 24:37Speaker 03

  No, not if they're on a private.

• 24:38Joe Rogan?

  Right, I think you just go hunt them.

• 24:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:40Joe Rogan?

  Right, okay.

• 24:43Speaker 01

  Talking about politics in different areas, it reminds me of in B C they outlawed grizzly hunting. And just, um, just recently, maybe last week, you know, a grizzly attacked a school group.

• 24:55Speaker 03

  Oh, I read about that.

• 24:56Speaker 01

  See that?

• 24:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Speaker 01

  That, that's another thing. So where in the cities who control a lot of the voting power of the, that's a province, but states here, is that the cities determine it and people living in the cities don't know what the fuck's going on in the wilderness. So they vote, oh, I, I love lions, I love grizzly bear, I love wolves, we need to have more of them. Meanwhile, the people out in the mountains are actually dealing with this shit.

• 25:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:19Speaker 01

  And so Vancouver, you know, if we're talking B C specifically, Vancouver pretty much makes the decisions for, for British Columbia.

• 25:27Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 25:28Speaker 01

  They said no more grizzly hunting and now it's just, you know, grizzly bear out of control.

• 25:32Joe Rogan?

  Did you ever meet my friend Mike Hawbridge?

• 25:34Speaker 01

  Yeah, we went to dinner at, uh,

• 25:35Joe Rogan?

  That's right.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  After a fight once.

• 25:36Joe Rogan?

  That's right, one of those steak houses in Vegas, right? Mike's great and he and Ben O'Brien took me on a moose hunt once.

• 25:42Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:42Joe Rogan?

  And he was telling me that, this was before the grizzly bear ban.

• 25:47Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:47Joe Rogan?

  He was like, there are so many of them and he had to shoot one from six feet away. One was breaking into a cabin and he had to shoot it from six feet away.

• 25:56Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 25:57Joe Rogan?

  Dude, like, they're terrifying up there.

• 26:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:00Joe Rogan?

  They have so many of them and they have wolves everywhere. We stumbled on a wolf kill. We got there, you know, it was probably a day old, I don't know, but it was nothing but hair. That was the thing that shocked me.

• 26:14Speaker 03

  What was it? Or what did it used to be?

• 26:15Joe Rogan?

  A moose calf.

• 26:15Speaker 03

  Oh, okay.

• 26:16Joe Rogan?

  And it was, there was nothing but hair. That was what was weird.

• 26:19Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:20Joe Rogan?

  It's like I didn't anticipate seeing so much hair.

• 26:22Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:23Joe Rogan?

  Like the moose hair was everywhere.

• 26:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:25Joe Rogan?

  Just everywhere. I thought it'd be like a dead animal, but it was just basically bones. And there was like a tiny bit of meat on, you know, corners of the bones and hair.

• 26:35Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 26:35Joe Rogan?

  Everywhere.

• 26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:36Joe Rogan?

  It was just like the, pow! Like they're like, cockers, pow! Just tearing into this moose calf and coughing up hair.

• 26:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 26:44Joe Rogan?

  I didn't see one when I was up there. Although I think we did see one in the distance when we were at John and Jen's place. We saw one we thought it was a bear or we thought it was a wolf run across the road. I was either with you or I was with Ben.

• 26:56Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 26:56Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember who it was, but I've never seen a wolf in the wild, like a real, like absolute, like look at him, holy shit, it's a wolf.

• 27:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. They look at you in a certain way, eh?

• 27:05Joe Rogan?

  Oh, bro.

• 27:06Speaker 03

  Like, one of the first trips I ever did to Canada was up in Northwest Territories. And I actually thought it was caribou coming down the river, like just the color of the wolves, this similar to a caribou. And then I worked out they were wolves and the guy that I was with, he's like, that's a pack of wolves. And I'm like, can I call them in?

• 27:23Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 27:23Speaker 03

  And he's.

• 27:24Joe Rogan?

  Adam Green Tree, what's wrong with you?

• 27:25Speaker 03

  He's like, yeah. And then I got up against a tree and I just started doing like a call that I do for like a fox or a wild dog back in Australia. And this whole pack come in.

• 27:35Joe Rogan?

  Like a wounded rabbit?

• 27:36Speaker 03

  You'd never seen them come in. They were like up in our vision up there. Yeah, like a rabbit call, distressed rabbit. And the next minute they was just like, they were fully surrounding us and just come in. Yeah, it was, it was freaking cool. But I just remember they could fully see me at that point and they were still just like looking through me, eh? And I was like, yeah, that's sick.

• 27:55Joe Rogan?

  Bro, you ever hear Dudley's story? When Dudley, Dudley, um, and some guide that he was with in B C, I think it was B C, I'm pretty sure. Um, or no, it was Alberta. They killed a, I think it was a, I think it was an elk. But when they killed it, they killed it essentially on top of where the wolves den, like right there. And wolves started circling around them and the guide had like one round in his rifle. And Dudley had like two arrows or three arrows left and they're surrounded by wolves. And Dudley shot two of them with a bow and arrow and the, the, the guide shot one with a rifle. They shot three wolves, three wolves. He, he said there was like, they were surrounding them.

• 28:40Joe Rogan?

  He said it was the freakiest fucking thing he's ever experienced.

• 28:43Speaker 03

  It wouldn't have been a great feeling.

• 28:44Joe Rogan?

  He told the story on the podcast and it was just. Like, fuck that, man. You only have two bullets, you fucking asshole. Like, what is wrong with you?

• 28:53Speaker 03

  Two bullets in one life.

• 28:54Joe Rogan?

  What do you, what? What the fuck are you doing, man?

• 28:57Speaker 03

  I killed a, um, killed a bull in, uh, New Mexico one year and I killed it late in the afternoon. So we did a pack out. This is just going back to the mountain lion story. We took, we did a pack out with meat, went back in, in the dark with head torches. And as we're walking in, I seen a couple of eyes or whatever. And it was just like deer, mule deer or something like that. And then I'm like, oh, there's another deer up in front of us. And as we got closer, the, the eyes were too high. And it's just like, nah, that's not a deer. And it was a mountain lion up in the tree. Like it was right up in the tree. There was the kill there. That lion stayed in the tree while we grabbed more meat and packed it out.

• 29:39Joe Rogan?

  You grabbed his meat?

• 29:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 29:41Joe Rogan?

  The mountain lion's meat?

• 29:42Speaker 03

  Well, it was his kill.

• 29:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it was your kill?

• 29:45Speaker 03

  My kill. And I was going back in for it and just thinking it was a set of deer eyes. And as I'm walking up, the eyes were like up in the tree. And, um, that's like, so I've only seen two. That's one of them. And it was in the dark. And I swear if it was daylight, I would have seen one in my whole entire hunting career.

• 30:01Joe Rogan?

  Did you see Cam's brother's story on, on Instagram? Oh my God. Cam's brother was running late at night in Califor- at night in California. And should we play it?

• 30:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 30:12Joe Rogan?

  Did we ever play it on the show? I think we might have. We might have.

• 30:15Speaker 03

  Did you?

• 30:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 30:16Speaker 03

  Yeah. I know you mentioned it.

• 30:18Joe Rogan?

  Fucking terrifying.

• 30:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah.

• 30:21Joe Rogan?

  It's terrifying.

• 30:22Speaker 03

  I've never seen that in Australia, by the way.

• 30:24Joe Rogan?

  What's your brother's name again?

• 30:25Speaker 03

  Taylor.

• 30:25Joe Rogan?

  Taylor, it's like T-Spike on, yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 03

  Taylor. So it's, uh, my, it's, my stepdad and mom had two kids, Taylor and Megan.

• 30:35Joe Rogan?

  Oh, okay.

• 30:36Speaker 03

  Those are my brothers, brother and sister. And then.

• 30:39Joe Rogan?

  He does ultras too, right?

• 30:40Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's, he's actually really good. Really good.

• 30:43Joe Rogan?

  He seemed like one of them dudes who had to get it in. You know, he had to get it in at night.

• 30:48Speaker 03

  He, uh, he did a 300 mile race just last year. He got, he's competing, trying to win the thing, of course, but got second.

• 30:55Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 30:55Speaker 03

  The Arizona Monster 300.

• 30:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God. That hurts my hips and my joints.

• 31:02Speaker 01

  That's a level he's at.

• 31:03Speaker 03

  Three hundred miles or three hundred kilometers.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Miles.

• 31:06Speaker 03

  That makes it so much worse.

• 31:08Joe Rogan?

  You thinking about kilometers. I thought you're an American now. Didn't they convert you? We were trying to teach you inches the other night.

• 31:15Speaker 03

  My lip for some reason. It's an American thing.

• 31:18Joe Rogan?

  You guys don't have pouches. It's probably illegal over there.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  Probably.

• 31:22Joe Rogan?

  They'll take it away.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Government's gonna control it.

• 31:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, how's that working out?

• 31:26Speaker 01

  You can do that, but you have to wear a mask.

• 31:28Joe Rogan?

  Did you find Taylor's video?

• 31:31Speaker 01

  I think it's on his Instagram.

• 31:32Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is. It's definitely. Did I send it to you at one point in time, maybe? I just found a video of you talking about it. Ah, unless he took it down. I don't think he took it down. What is his Instagram handle?

• 31:43Speaker 01

  It's T-Spike, something like that. T-Spike, something.

• 31:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I'll find it.

• 31:47Speaker 03

  T-Spike, three hundred miles.

• 31:50Joe Rogan?

  Coming in second place in three hundred miles is bananas. And meanwhile, how much difference was there between him and number one?

• 31:57Speaker 01

  I think a couple hours, probably.

• 31:59Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 32:00Speaker 03

  That's insane.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  But it took a...

• 32:03Joe Rogan?

  Oh, God.

• 32:03Speaker 01

  I think he did it in eighty-eight hours.

• 32:06Joe Rogan?

  That is nuts, man.

• 32:08Speaker 03

  That's a serious effort.

• 32:09Joe Rogan?

  That is a serious effort.

• 32:10Speaker 01

  There's some freaks out there, for sure.

• 32:13Speaker 03

  I'll do it one day.

• 32:13Speaker 01

  He's one of them.

• 32:14Joe Rogan?

  Are you gonna do it one day for real?

• 32:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 32:16Joe Rogan?

  T-Spike two.

• 32:17Speaker 03

  Couple more visits away as well will be good.

• 32:19Joe Rogan?

  What, Jamie? I don't know where the video is. Okay, I'll find it. I'll find it. Yeah, it's me talking about it. That's fine.

• 32:24Speaker 01

  Oh, he must have reshared that or something.

• 32:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, here it is. I found it right away. It's just his face. When you see his face staring at the camera, it says lion. Oh, you got it? Okay. It says lion update. Yeah, this is it. Give me some volume.

• 32:36Speaker 05

  A restless night of this reoccurring dream of these green eyes hot on my tail. I was coming down the trail last night, just after dark, and I see these green eyes off to the side of the trail. I mean, right on the side of the trail, what I thought was a coyote. I just kind of yelled. And then when it stood up, I realized it was a fucking mountain lion. I took off running as hard as I could, and I looked over my shoulder, and it was right behind me. I ran for probably a hundred yards and realized it wasn't giving up, and I turned around, and I kicked rocks, and I jumped up and down, and I screamed to the top of my lungs.

• 33:14Speaker 05

  And this thing did not care. I did that a few times to the point that, at one point, I almost thought, I'm just gonna lay down here and die because I'm not gonna outrun this fucking thing. Another time it got really close to me and I thought I had no choice but to try to scare it. Uh, and I turned and I screamed and I kicked rocks. I mean, to the point it was, I mean, it was right, right there. And I finally decided, well, you just gotta run, run for your fucking life. Um, I've done some crazy shit in my life. I've been pretty scared, but this, this was next level. This was next level. It terrified me.

• 33:55Speaker 05

  Um, you know, I, I think maybe if I'd had a gun, I could have done something, uh, pepper spray. I, I don't think it, it, it was so close that I would have probably pepper sprayed myself. So, I don't know. Um, I was a half mile from the city. Uh, in Lake Forest, California. I mean, like, s- straight up, I, I could hear dogs barking and at one point I thought maybe that's what kinda deterred it, but I said, didn't care. Um, so this morning I'm gonna ride the bike. Um, probably won't go back out there in the dark. Um, I did wait around for the sheriff's department and fishing game.

• 34:35Speaker 05

  Um, because there was other hikers on the trail that were above me that would have had to have come down. And I, I just don't know how other people would have responded. Uh, like I said, I've done some scary shit. Um, I've been in the woods my whole life, but this, this was next level. It was terrifying. But I'm all good. Um, back at it, right? Uh, I guess if this only happens one time in your life, I got it out of the way. I'm a lucky fucker. Have a good day. I'll keep at it.

• 35:04Speaker 03

  Doesn't work like that.

• 35:09Joe Rogan?

  That is the consequences of letting monsters live in your neighborhood.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 35:13Joe Rogan?

  That's real. And ever, all these wilderness-loving people, like

• 35:18Joe Rogan?

  I guarantee you, you're not out there as much as that guy is. I guarantee you're not out there as much as you are, or you are. That's the difference between people that really understand what we're talking about and people that are looking at this from this knee jerk, love and compassion for nature perspective.

• 35:32Speaker 03

  Well, back to what Cam said, it's like the, the majority of the votes are people that don't get in that environment.

• 35:38Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 35:39Speaker 03

  You know, and it's not just about hunting, that's for farmers anywhere as well. There's people in the city that are making votes for people that live in the country and the lifestyle is completely different.

• 35:47Joe Rogan?

  And they don't understand what they're talking about, especially the B C band. Like, we're gonna ban trophy hunting, trophy hunting's bad. No, but what about monster control? Isn't that good? I'm on fucking team people, okay? I love animals, but I am on team people.

• 36:03Speaker 03

  Imagine if they knew how soft we were. They don't have to spit out hair. The flesh is right here, it's soft, it's so easy to get into.

• 36:13Speaker 01

  Cause they, they usually go in at the stomach, you know, or the ass. It's like our stomach, how soft those are.

• 36:18Speaker 03

  Straight for the organs.

• 36:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's right, right to the good stuff.

• 36:21Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, not good.

• 36:22Speaker 03

  If they knew.

• 36:23Speaker 01

  Even, I don't think people, like even a dog can turn into, like, uh, I killed a buck. You know, before we went on that last hunt, I killed a buck and like for the treat for the dog, you cut off the nuts. Give him the nuts, so it's got hide on it, it's got the, the buck's nuts, basically. Dog takes off, they're just like ripping into it, it's like delicacy, right? That's just a normal dog. So a lion who's born and bred to kill, I mean, that's just the level of what animals do.

• 36:55Joe Rogan?

  Your, your liver is a ribeye and they haven't eaten in a week. They're like, oh baby, look at that liver, it's right there.

• 37:05Joe Rogan?

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• 37:50Joe Rogan?

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• 39:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. And those, the dogs there at that deer camp, you give them like a part of the, I don't know, there's some skin. It's not the flank steak, but it's just some skin there that sometimes you cut off that goes over the stomach and run off, eat that, eat pounds and pounds of meat. A regular dog. So a lion, yeah, they'll eat, what they do is they just eat as much meat as they can and they just kind of lay around. So that's the time to actually run from a lion is after a big meal. You know what I mean? Cause their stomachs are full of meat. Maybe that's why Taylor, maybe that lion that chased him had just killed a deer and was full of protein, but you know, they still hunt. That's what they do. It's their instinct, but sometimes you can time it right and maybe that's saves your life.

• 39:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, geez. Crazy. That's not a risk we should be taking.

• 39:51Speaker 01

  If you can avoid it, it's always better.

• 39:53Joe Rogan?

  It's like, they're so hard to find. People don't understand, you're not gonna put a dent in their population. This is not like any other, it's not like deer. You can deep populate a deer, like an environment of deer. If you went crazy and hunted them all and you said, what's eradicate all the deer? Every hunter, you could shoot as many deer as you want, just let's go do it right now. You can get rid of all the deer. You ain't ever doing that with cats.

• 40:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're too sneaky.

• 40:19Joe Rogan?

  Not now, not now.

• 40:20Speaker 01

  Even in Australia with buffalo, you can fly and eliminate a lot of stuff. Pigs here, deer, buffalo down there. Uh, the water buffalo, but you're not doing helicopter killing of lions.

• 40:34Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, no, you can do wolves, they'll, they'll lower wolf populations that way, and they do. They do in some parts of the world. They do in Alaska, right? They do wolf kills from helicopters.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, and, and, yeah, I mean, lions are just tough, but I did, uh, I didn't even realize this, but Oregon, as we're looking at those numbers that Jamie pulled up, um, Oregon, the goal is nine hundred and seventy lions a year, but we never get to it.

• 41:00Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 41:00Speaker 01

  So what that means is, we're not meeting our objective of lion kills. That means there's more and more lions every, every year.

• 41:07Joe Rogan?

  Don't they factor that into the amount of tags they give though? That there's gonna be a limited amount of success? So they'll give more tags than there will be, like, than they actually need to kill?

• 41:16Speaker 01

  For lions or for?

• 41:17Joe Rogan?

  For lions, do they do that?

• 41:18Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I mean, I'm not sure how, how they do it. It's supposed to be like a balance, you know, I mean, if, if, but the, what happens is, not enough lions are getting killed, so there's too many lions, so that means the lions are killing too many deer. No, because there's, the lion number is too high. And that's what's kinda happening. There's areas in Oregon that were great hunting at one time, that are terrible now.

• 41:40Joe Rogan?

  Well, here's a perfect example. Where I used to live in California, you guys have been in my house, a lot of land, a lot of woods, a lot of like, there's a lot of like wildlife out there. Good luck finding a deer.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 41:51Joe Rogan?

  You might find two, three in a month, in a month. I see deer every fucking day out here. I see them every day. You know why? No mountain lions and you could shoot them. California has a mountain lion problem. Like, it's a real problem. The place, the Tohone Ranch, that place, they had a, a camera out in front of one of their ponds, and they got sixteen different mountain lions on that camera. Sixteen.

• 42:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and what, the people in LA. That they have no idea what's going, but they're voting.

• 42:23Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 42:23Speaker 01

  That's who controls.

• 42:24Speaker 03

  And voting with their hearts.

• 42:25Joe Rogan?

  And yeah, they're well, and they're and they're good people and I would have voted with them. Right. Okay. If I had never been hunting and never been in the woods, I would have voted with them. Maybe not, maybe not, because I'm a little fucking skeptical of people's wisdom. And I probably would have looked into it a little bit and thought about what it'd be like to get eaten by a mountain lion and go fuck. What the fuck are we talking about?

• 42:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:46Joe Rogan?

  Kill these goddamn things. Are you fucking crazy? Don't kill them all. You don't have to kill them all. But they're going to exist in the woods where they're supposed to be. They're not supposed to be in Pasadena.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  Right.

• 42:56Joe Rogan?

  Okay. They're not supposed to be wandering around the fucking Hollywood Hills, like that one that I have the big picture of.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  No.

• 43:01Joe Rogan?

  That one's crazy.

• 43:02Speaker 01

  That line, that picture is insane.

• 43:04Joe Rogan?

  Insane. The Hollywood sign behind him and he's wearing a collar. That picture to me embodies like everything that's wrong with California. Like you know where he is and he's in the neighborhood where people live and you just put a collar on him?

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:18Joe Rogan?

  So you could track him when he's fucking killing dogs? Like what, what are you saying? You know, many, look at that photo.

• 43:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:24Speaker 03

  That is a sick photo.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  That is an amazing, that's one of the most amazing photos ever.

• 43:28Joe Rogan?

  Ever taken. When, as soon as I saw that photo, I'm like, oh my God, we have to buy a print.

• 43:32Speaker 03

  What do you think he's thinking?

• 43:33Joe Rogan?

  Ordered it from the photographer. What is he thinking? What am I gonna kill next? And why is this fucking thing on my neck?

• 43:39Speaker 03

  Is the most tastiest.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  That's, that's right above where Huberman used to live.

• 43:44Joe Rogan?

  Oh, it's dude, it's right there. By the way, that's like, we filmed Fear Factor out there a punch at times.

• 43:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:49Joe Rogan?

  Look at that fucker.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  Oh, I know.

• 43:51Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, look at his face. I'm just wandering into that. The thing is so big.

• 43:56Speaker 01

  How sick of a photo is that?

• 43:58Joe Rogan?

  Amazing.

• 43:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 44:00Joe Rogan?

  And it's all camera traps.

• 44:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. So, but here's what's so critical in, you know, hunters, we can be our own worst enemies, but part of what discussions like this and talking about how it actually works is so important. It's not for other hunters. It's for people who don't hunt, who do vote. You know, it's like, hey, let's, let's just educate.

• 44:20Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:20Speaker 01

  People who don't understand, it's not, it's not your fault. You don't understand. You haven't hunted your whole life. That's okay. But just listen to what we're saying and just say like, hey, when that vote comes up and it's like, we're talking about, you know, being on. To hunt lions with dogs or or black bear with bait. Let's think about, hey, there's repercussions if we don't allow this, you know?

• 44:38Joe Rogan?

  They don't just don't know what it is.

• 44:40Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:40Joe Rogan?

  It sounds cruel. Lions with dogs. I go, that's not even fair.

• 44:44Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 44:44Joe Rogan?

  You wanna hunt it with a spear? If you wanna hunt it like we used to hunt them, hunt it with a spear.

• 44:50Speaker 01

  Your bare hands, no bare hands is what I see. Kill with your bare hands.

• 44:54Joe Rogan?

  That's the dumbest argument. That's the dumbest. How do you think we got to the point where we don't have fangs, you fucking dolt?

• 45:01Speaker 03

  And this.

• 45:01Joe Rogan?

  We got there, we evolved past that because we figured out weapons, okay? And that's why we can have cities.

• 45:08Speaker 01

  Never kills shit with their hands.

• 45:10Speaker 03

  No, hell no.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  At least they had a fucking wooden spear. So what are you talking about bare hands?

• 45:14Joe Rogan?

  It's the dumbest fucking argument of all time. And it's also people that don't understand that we would have never had civilization if we didn't do this.

• 45:21Speaker 03

  Exactly.

• 45:21Joe Rogan?

  It wouldn't exist.

• 45:22Speaker 03

  The conversation doesn't come from a want perspective from me. I've got no desire to hunt a mountain lion again. I don't. But as someone that's in the know, because I have before, you know, and I wanted to educate myself. Prior to that hunt, I was doing as much reading as I could to find out, do I feel good about this? Is, yeah, so it's not like I want I want them still on the list to hunt because I want to go and do it again. I don't have a desire to do that again myself, but I do see that it's good management. You know, and instead of them, instead of them being culled and not utilized, you know, and it's actually costing money. You know, there's money going into conservation at that point from the hunter and the meat utilized, you know?

• 46:03Speaker 03

  And as you mentioned, in in that case, I gave that meat to a lot of people because I wanted people to see it as a food source as well, you know, as in, because you do, you sort of think of a mountain lion, you're like, ugh. The meat was amazing. Some of the most incredible meat I've ever had.

• 46:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, even even if, so just say they didn't require you to take the meat and you didn't and you didn't eat it. Still, they need to be killed.

• 46:27Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 46:27Speaker 01

  There's all there is to it, just to make the the deer and elk population, just to make it work like it has to work because humans. People will always say, well, mother nature will take care of itself. It's like, no, humans have encroached on this habitat. That's why we need to control this. This isn't. Like the wide open west that it once was where, yeah, maybe it'd work out eventually. It's not gonna work out.

• 46:46Joe Rogan?

  They were here first. They were here first.

• 46:50Speaker 03

  We're part of the system, a hundred percent.

• 46:52Speaker 01

  Adam, you know, he said he's killed one. He doesn't plan on killing another. I've never killed one. I've never killed a lion in my entire life, but I know it's important. So it's not like I'm this big lion hunter that I just have this passion for doing it. I want to kill as many as possible. Never even killed one, but I know that we have to kill them. And in Colorado there, that's one thing, you know, you talk about sex and the animal up on, up in the tree. Cause you can see what it is, male, female. You don't, when I hunted them, I did hunt them. I didn't kill, but you could kill any lion. Essentially if it didn't have, you know, it couldn't be a female with cubs, but uh, or kittens, but um, you look at them in the tree and you can decide, oh, that's a female. Probably not the best to kill. Let's kill an old male. Cause it's just, that's how it just works better that way, taking old males out.

• 47:38Speaker 01

  And uh, but you can do that. And same thing with baiting bear. A bear comes in, a bear is really tough to tell whether it's a boar or a sow, it's male or female for those that don't know. But at a bait, when you're looking very closely, you can, the, oh, that's an old male. That's one I want to take. So that's why, that's why there's, it's not just random, like I'm rifle hunting this 400 yards away running. And you kill like a bear and it has, has cubs. You didn't realize it had cubs. Because the cubs are in a tree somewhere that the sow left. So that's where baiting is actually the best way to manage these numbers. And it might seem like, oh, you just throw out donuts and this and that, and the bear comes in. I mean, yeah, you could turn like that, or you could say, no, we're targeting the, the right animal to make this work the best, best way it can.

• 48:21Joe Rogan?

  Well, people need to understand that wildlife biologists and the numbers that they put up and the rules that they apply, especially the rational rules like that. They exist because it's the only effective way to hunt these things. Like there, you, you don't use dogs to hunt elk. You know what I'm saying? It's like they, because it doesn't seem right, right? There's, there's one effective way to get these mountain lions and you gotta tree them. You know, if you don't, if you don't have that option and you're bow hunting, you have to stumble upon one. And they're not gonna, they're gonna know you're coming for. Ever before you know they're there forever hundreds of yards away. They're gonna smell you, they'll hear something, they'll turn and look at it, they have amazing eyesight. You know, like you're you're not finding them.

• 49:02Joe Rogan?

  And if you want to keep the populations in check, there's like California's got a bear problem too. And part of their bear problem is you you you can't use dogs anymore. And it was the only way they could really control populations in a lot of these places.

• 49:14Speaker 01

  Dogs are bait are baiting. Hey Jamie, I got another project. So Cam Canada, you start spell with a K. He, as we were talking about, he had a deer tag, he's deer hunting. This in in Oregon, that's what you do, you just buy a bear and a lion tag just to have with you. But he killed this giant lion, he was deer hunting, this lion came up, sat on this rock forty yards away. And he's just like, I got a lion tag, perfect, boom. Got put a perfect arrow in this giant lion, but look at this thing. And he's a big dude.

• 49:46Speaker 03

  There's a slob.

• 49:47Speaker 01

  He he played for the Steelers for like six years in the NFL. Yeah, so that was just like a happen chance, that's how you get them in Oregon. Because you can't use dogs, you can't do anything else. So that lion just just jumped up there and he made a perfect shot on it.

• 50:04Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 50:05Speaker 01

  But look at that big thing.

• 50:06Joe Rogan?

  God.

• 50:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty nuts.

• 50:12Speaker 01

  And like I said, Cam's like six, four, I don't know, two thirty.

• 50:15Joe Rogan?

  The one Derek Wolfe killed?

• 50:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, that was a giant one too.

• 50:18Joe Rogan?

  Giant one. So the Derek Wolfe story is a great one too, because he took so much heat online about it. People were so angry at him that he did that. And it's just people that don't understand. Why it's necessary. And first of all, if you know Derek, Derek's a fucking legit Viking. He's a legit Viking. That guy's a giant human being. So for him to be holding, is there another picture we see like the full?

• 50:40Speaker 01

  I think that one was like.

• 50:42Joe Rogan?

  That's it, there's the full length.

• 50:43Speaker 01

  Hundred and eighty pounds or something?

• 50:44Joe Rogan?

  Look at the size of that fucking thing.

• 50:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, so you and I don't know what the numbers are, but you think a lion kills, especially a lion that big, has to basically kill a deer every week, right? So that's three hundred sixty five deer a year that thing is killed, or no, not, no, that's fifty two deer a year.

• 51:04Joe Rogan?

  Imagine there's a deer a day.

• 51:06Speaker 01

  No, but.

• 51:06Joe Rogan?

  Well, do you know the wolf thing?

• 51:07Speaker 03

  Possibly.

• 51:08Joe Rogan?

  They say lions are killing more deer now than ever in places where there's wolves because the wolves scare the lion off the kill.

• 51:14Speaker 01

  The wolves steal them.

• 51:15Joe Rogan?

  They steal them all the time. So the lions just give up and they go kill another one. They can kill way easier than the deer can. They're way more effective killers.

• 51:22Speaker 01

  So think about, so fifty, say fifty lion or fifty deer a year for each lion. How many lions are in Colorado? A lot, a lot. You know, I mean, that's a lot of fucking deer or or elk calves or something's being killed.

• 51:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 51:37Speaker 03

  Australia's got a real bad problem with shark population now. And it's like, and I'm taking it there because what's happening is for like a really good eating fish like a red emperor, um, you'll only get like five red emperor. That's your ta- that's your quota for the day. You can only catch five. And what the sharks are doing now is you'll hook a red emperor and the sharks will just take it off the line. So you don't have a red emperor in the boat anymore, but one's dead because the sharks got it. So you keep fishing. And then, so now the red emperor numbers are declining because sharks, that's if like their favorite fish to jump to grab off a line. You can catch a cod, you'll get it to the boat because the sharks aren't going for it. But if it's a red fish, the sharks are taking it constantly.

• 52:22Speaker 03

  And then, so what's happened is because there's been a ban on shark fishing, shark numbers have gotten out of control. So now red emperor numbers have plummeted because the sharks are just eating them constantly.

• 52:33Joe Rogan?

  How many people in Australia get killed by sharks every year?

• 52:37Speaker 03

  There's been a few this year already. Yeah, I actually just had, I had my girlfriend out a couple of, or maybe a month or two ago. And I took her to this beautiful beach and it was, it was awesome. Soon as we got there, there's dolphins jumping out of the water and whatnot. Anyway, we never went for a swim just because of how the conditions were. And a week later, a lady was taken from that beach. And her partner may have died as well. I didn't follow up on the story, but a partner got attacked as well, but got out of the water. Um, and it's great whites mostly on the the east coast. They seem to be running pretty rampant at the moment.

• 53:13Speaker 01

  Kill them.

• 53:15Speaker 03

  It's the bleeding hearts that are making the votes.

• 53:19Joe Rogan?

  Four confirmed fatal shark attacks in 2025 so far, with some trackers listing four or five deaths, depending on how many incidents are class or how incidents are classified.

• 53:30Joe Rogan?

  And but think about how much less people are out there in the water than on the ground.

• 53:35Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 53:36Joe Rogan?

  That's the thing. It's like people go, there's only four shark attacks a year. Right. But how many people are in the water?

• 53:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, out of 500 people.

• 53:43Joe Rogan?

  It's not a lot of people in the water swimming out there.

• 53:46Speaker 03

  Horrible way to go.

• 53:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, good lord.

• 53:48Speaker 03

  Absolute monster of the ocean.

• 53:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh.

• 53:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, isn't it weird to think that, I mean, most society doesn't know anything about the wild these days? You know, I mean.

• 54:00Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we're domesticated.

• 54:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's but even like, I don't know, I always say that, I mean, we talked about this, I'm pretty sure, because I talk about it all the time, but like, I always think that society, like this regular life here is fake. It's like, it's not even not even real. It's not even how humans were designed to to live and survive. Where the wild is actually where that's how that's what we're designed to do, live in the mountains or or hunt and survive, things like that. And so the fake life, I don't know, it's just crazy to me to think about that.

• 54:36Joe Rogan?

  The fake life is what we think of as the real life.

• 54:37Speaker 01

  Is a real life. And it's not. It's not real. It's like, what we're doing, yeah, it's just not real life.

• 54:45Speaker 03

  Yeah, we're we're made to live in a society that's not by mine or your design.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 54:49Speaker 03

  You know, and it's sort of like, and that's I always feel out of it in society, because I just feel like it's not for me. But it is, it's here, and we've got to live in it. I do like going on the Ways and Wells and getting a good injection. So but I just want to go when I want to go.

• 55:06Joe Rogan?

  That's the way to do it. Attack it from the outside.

• 55:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:10Joe Rogan?

  Go in, go to a nice restaurant, get back out to the country and just fucking relax. It's better for people. You ever see that, the old days of Vice, when Vice used to do really cool stuff? They had Vice guide to travel. And there's this one guy who lives in the Arctic Circle. And this dude is, he's been there since the nineteen seventies. He got a job up there and got permitted where he's like grandfathered into allowed to live in a small cabin up there, like the last guy there. He has like a permit on his door. And this guy's been living up there ever since. He saw nine eleven in a photograph, like a year after it happened. Had no idea what was going on. Very smart guy, like intelligent,

• 55:51Joe Rogan?

  interesting guy. And lives up there with his wife and all he does is hunt caribou and fish. And he talks about it and he's like, this is how people are supposed to live. Like when you, he's not like, he's a very intelligent guy. So like when he's talking about it, he's talking it from like in, in internal programming. Like this is like, this feeling that you get living like this is how people are supposed to live. And when you live like this, you're very fulfilled and it feels normal. Whereas most people don't feel normal. Most people are depressed. They have anxiety. They're worried about their career. They're worried about all this stuff that is like human created. They're worried about our, their social status, whether they're ostracized from the neighborhood or people like them anymore because their

• 56:35Joe Rogan?

  political beliefs or whatever the fuck it is. There's none of that out there. There's none of that because it's, it's the way we were designed. But if we want all the things that we enjoy, like fucking Starlink and cell phones, like you have to have this weird fake world that we've created, the human created world. But it's not conducive to like a healthy mindset for most people. It's not normal. And so all the, I, I, I have this thought about why exercise is so important for people's mental health. Cause I think at the very least, what it does is it gives you like the physical exertion that your body requires. But I think your body requires a connection as well. And that's what we're

• 57:20Joe Rogan?

  missing. We're missing the natural world connection. And you can get some of that out of the physical exercise. You can get some of that out of like doing, but your body's literally designed to have to move. And to complete tasks in order to survive. And that task could be like that guy out there hunting caribou, building a house, surviving, like making a homestead, growing a garden. Like this is a normal way we are, but we're moving into this abnormal way. And along the way, people are losing their fucking marbles. Everyone's crazy. No one knows what a woman is anymore. Like everyone, like literally out of their fucking mind, out of their mind with the, if the left win, the democracy will fall.

• 58:02Joe Rogan?

  The right win, we're all gonna be Nazis. And it's just chaos.

• 58:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 58:06Joe Rogan?

  And none of it is normal. None of it is natural. And the reason why it's so incompatible with most people is because we're not designed for it.

• 58:13Speaker 03

  I feel it. I know Cam's the same, but like, it's just like time doing those things that are usually in a quieter environment, in a more natural environment. Like I mentally feel better every time. And then I I almost feel myself slipping when I come back to the city, you know, and it's just like, you sort of start letting your guard down. You just slip back into it and you're like, this is, I'm not enjoying this. And then you go back out hunting for us or camping or whatever it is. And then I do, I feel revitalized. I feel healthier. Mentally and physically, I feel healthier. And then, but adding all the other things to it, you know, like you talk about, like, you know, exercise and yeah, it does touch on it and I, and I think all those little things help.

• 58:56Speaker 03

  But to really get out in fresh air is the big one for me, where it's just, I do, I feel more flow state.

• 59:01Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if like, I'm sure Nate, like a primitive man felt emotions for sure. But do you think they felt depressed?

• 59:11Speaker 01

  No, I mean, I think.

• 59:12Joe Rogan?

  You know what I mean?

• 59:13Speaker 03

  I feel like they were too busy.

• 59:15Speaker 01

  I think that.

• 59:16Speaker 03

  Survive, eat.

• 59:17Speaker 01

  I think people, I think this is part of this fake society is like, are you happy? Are you happy? It's like, happy? What the fuck is happy? I want to be useful out there. I want to do, do something. I'm not happy, sad, I'm nothing.

• 59:32Joe Rogan?

  Right. What is happy?

• 59:33Speaker 01

  Don't.

• 59:34Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:34Joe Rogan?

  I'm content just being.

• 59:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 59:36Joe Rogan?

  Can you be content just being?

• 59:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 59:39Speaker 01

  When you're in the, in the mountains, carrying your bow, glassing, looking, drinking, eating, looking for a place to sleep.

• 59:48Speaker 01

  What is that? That's what I want. I don't know what it's hap- I don't know what it is. But that's like, purpose. Like, I have a purpose. I'm trying to kill something. That is that happy?

• 59:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you're trying to find food.

• 1:00:00Speaker 01

  To me, that feels... Because I don't know what happy is. I see people, they laugh and they're fucking around. Sometimes it's alcohol-induced or drug-induced. It's like, is that supposed to be happy? What is hap- I don't know. I don't know what, what are we, what are we calling happy? Because that's not like a little kid laughing at a birthday party. But are those both, are they both happy? The fight no one saw coming. Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua, live on Netflix, December 19th. Two worlds collide in the ring and DraftKings Sportsbook has the action covered. Bet on every round, every punch, every knockout moment with live betting and fast payouts.

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• 1:01:38Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's different kinds of happiness, right?

• 1:01:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know.

• 1:01:41Joe Rogan?

  Happiness you get on a fun date. You know, there's happiness you get when you, you know, you do fun stupid shit. Like you go play, uh, like sandbox games. You pretend you're shooting zombies with VR. That's happy. It's fun. It's silly. You get it out of it. Everyone has a smile. You had a good time. That was wild. That's happy too. There's a bunch of different kinds of happiness. Some of it we've created. But there's content. Like are you content, like are you enjoying your existence?

• 1:02:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:08Joe Rogan?

  And I think that's a real struggle for a lot of people.

• 1:02:10Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:02:10Joe Rogan?

  Cause there's a giant percentage of the people that are listening to this right now that are forced to do something they don't enjoy doing most of the time. Most of the time, most of their day, they're doing something they don't enjoy doing because they have to do it in order to do the things that they do enjoy. So if you wanna go on vacation, you gotta make enough money to afford the trip to Hawaii. If you wanna do this, you gotta do that. If you wanna do this, you gotta do that. You're like, huh. And so you're just walking in some stupid cubicle, punching keys, just planning all the fun stuff you're gonna do with the money that you make doing this thing you hate doing.

• 1:02:44Speaker 01

  It's pretty nuts.

• 1:02:45Joe Rogan?

  It's pretty nuts.

• 1:02:46Speaker 03

  I've never, I've never felt happy in that.

• 1:02:48Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying.

• 1:02:49Speaker 03

  But having to do something to get to somewhere, sometimes you have to be unhappy.

• 1:02:54Joe Rogan?

  That's true too.

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  And you're the wrong person to be commenting on this because you're extreme. You're never gonna be happy because you're gonna continue to chase bigger and better.

• 1:03:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's what I say.

• 1:03:03Speaker 03

  Which is good. That's awesome.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  I don't know. I mean, and I've mentioned this before, I'm happiest when I'm suffering.

• 1:03:11Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:03:12Joe Rogan?

  That's ridiculous.

• 1:03:13Speaker 01

  No, but like, doesn't it, doesn't it feel like?

• 1:03:17Joe Rogan?

  Adam and I, we just looked at each other. He's fucking crazy.

• 1:03:20Speaker 01

  No, because when I'm suffering, it's because I'm doing something that matters to me.

• 1:03:24Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:03:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, you like that. And you know what's on the other side. That's what makes it better too.

• 1:03:29Joe Rogan?

  You've sort of programmed yourself to be like that too. You know, this is like similar to Goggins, right? Goggins always wants people to know that he wasn't always like this. That he used to be fat and lazy. And he shows pictures of himself at 300 pounds. He always talks about it. You know, it's like, it's like, this isn't, I wasn't born like this. Like I turned myself into this. And I think one of the reasons why you've been able to struggle so much is you've figured out a way to enjoy struggle. And a lot of people avoid struggle at all costs. They want the couch. Oh, I wanna relax. It's cold out. I don't wanna get in that fucking cold plunge. Are you crazy? What's wrong with you? You know.

• 1:04:07Speaker 01

  I love struggle because you know what's on the other side.

• 1:04:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  The growth.

• 1:04:11Joe Rogan?

  Done it.

• 1:04:11Speaker 01

  So it's like, once you've done that, and I think that's where a lot of people struggle. If they quit, or they don't get to the other side, then you don't know the reward on it.

• 1:04:19Joe Rogan?

  What you just said is perfect. That's why they struggle, because they don't struggle.

• 1:04:22Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:04:23Joe Rogan?

  It's like the thing you're avoiding is causing you to have the exact same thing. It's just a s- you're getting a slow dose of that poison. And you never get out of it. Whereas if you voluntarily struggle, then you get this beautiful feeling when it's over. But you're not doing that, so you're just getting the same amount of struggle in these weird little slow doses all day long.

• 1:04:44Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:04:45Joe Rogan?

  All, so you're never getting like, oh my god, I'm in agony, I can't breathe. But if you did, then the rest of the day would be easy.

• 1:04:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:04:52Joe Rogan?

  Instead, you're getting, oh my god, the world is closing in on me and I don't know why I'm so freaked out and I'm riddled with anxiety all day long for no fucking reason. I'm having a panic attack and there's nothing wrong. That's what's going on. Like, you're, you're getting your suffering in like little doses all day long and it's driving you fucking crazy.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:11Joe Rogan?

  And that's why you get on SSRIs and that's why you do this and that's why you do that and you join a cult. And everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better. Everyone's just trying to figure out a way to feel better and one of the ways to feel better is voluntary struggling.

• 1:05:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:26Joe Rogan?

  You gotta volunteer to put yourself in stressful situations, difficult situations, do it on purpose. If you do that, then the regular world is easier.

• 1:05:35Speaker 01

  Hmm. Yeah, it's a, I, I think like, I'm always, of course, biased towards hunting in the mountains, but also think that men, um, men specifically, you know, where I grew up and in the environment I grew up, hunters were respected. And if you killed a big buck, you're like, that meant something in the small town I was.

• 1:05:56Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's very difficult to do.

• 1:05:58Speaker 01

  Right. And it's like, for men, respect is such an important thing.

• 1:06:02Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:02Speaker 01

  It's like, where we say like, women need love, men need, if you have to choose, men, love doesn't mean shit really, but respect does.

• 1:06:11Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:11Speaker 01

  And it like, hunting was a way to earn respect from the community. And that's why for men, like when I, as hunters, I think that's appealing for people who don't hunt, because they see that image and they're like, I'm missing that.

• 1:06:24Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:25Speaker 01

  Because they see that there's, there's respect earned there. And that's what men. Whether they want to admit it or not, that's a big driving force. Like you, even at work, whatever job you have, you want to be respected.

• 1:06:38Joe Rogan?

  Here's a perfect example. That story you were telling me about shooting that bull in the Oregon backcountry. And you, it's terrible place to kill a bull, and you called up that dude.

• 1:06:49Speaker 01

  Yeah. That guy. Cal Holliday.

• 1:06:52Joe Rogan?

  Which sounds like a fake name. We were talking about that.

• 1:06:54Speaker 01

  Like a gunslinger.

• 1:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Cal Holliday sounds like such a fake name. It's a perfect badass name. You called this dude and asked him to help you. Dude drove through, you told him, okay, he said, I'll see you there at 8 a.m.

• 1:07:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:08Joe Rogan?

  This guy's drives through the night. He shows up, like, how many hours did it take him to get there?

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  It was four guys, so he had to round up three other guys. So he brought four of, like, him and three guys. And they live, God, how far away? I mean, at least a couple hours, I think.

• 1:07:26Speaker 01

  And so they had to get together, drive a couple hours, get up on this old, like, logging road essentially, into the, to the access point of the wilderness, to the trailhead. Pack in miles, right? So this is like nine or 10 at night, they said they'd be there at 8 in the morning. So that's what it took. Like, to get there and then miles back to this remote, middle-of-the-wilderness hellhole area by 8 a.m. So, yeah, it was, it was hours and hours and hours just to get there.

• 1:07:55Speaker 03

  And you can't time that.

• 1:07:56Joe Rogan?

  The way you talked about it.

• 1:07:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:07:59Joe Rogan?

  The way you talked about him, that's what every man wants.

• 1:08:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:08:02Joe Rogan?

  Like, that was a fucking man.

• 1:08:03Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:08:04Speaker 03

  But he earned it too. You know, that's, and you're talking about, you know, respect's so important, but you do have to earn respect.

• 1:08:10Speaker 01

  Right, right. And that, when, so, in that moment, so there was me, Wayne, Tanner, my son, James, my camera guy, Gideon, and then he brought four guys. So we had eight guys. In that moment, there's not eight other men I would rather have, or seven other men besides me that I'd rather have there, because those, to do that... It's special. That's not, not everybody can do that shit, but those guys, that was their purpose. They could probably never be quote happier than in that moment, elk meat on our back, miles to get to the trailhead out.

• 1:08:50Joe Rogan?

  Hundreds of pounds of meat.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, 300 pounds of meat. So, we waited at the butcher when I took the, to get processed. 300 pounds of boned out meat, that's not, not a bone on there, so.

• 1:09:01Joe Rogan?

  Not including your camp, not including everything that's on your back.

• 1:09:04Speaker 01

  Right, and the head, I took the head out. So 300 pounds of meat plus everything else that we had. But, eight of us packed it out and it was the great, the greatest day I can remember probably this season, you know. I mean, it was, that, that was, that was real. That's what I say, that, that's real. All this other shit, I don't know what this is, but that was fucking real. I killed a bull, we have to get it out to take care of this meat. Here's some badass mountain men, who can help me? Does it get any better?

• 1:09:35Speaker 03

  No. Yeah, I think I've known you for 13 or 14 years now and you've always been like that, eh? You've never changed in that sense. Like, those things are important to you, those things are meaningful to you. Yeah, it's incredible.

• 1:09:46Speaker 01

  No, it's, uh, thank you, but yeah, it's, it's, yeah, I mean, that's all that fucking matters.

• 1:09:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's, most people never experience that, that's what's wrong. What's wrong is most people never experienced the, that insane, challenging experience where your, your character's tested, your will is tested, your commitment is tested.

• 1:10:08Speaker 01

  Just think, so, the video on this hunt came out last night and it's called The Bow Hunter, but there's a, a moment there, after we had called, after we'd got the, my bull processed, so it was, at that time it was just me, Wayne, Tanner and James. And we're just sitting there, we had our tent set up, the, the bull, the meat's all hanging up, middle of the night, sitting there talking, eating, um, we're eating, uh, peak, uh, meals. I'm like, why are we eating peak meals when you have elk meat there? Why didn't you eat the elk? We didn't have a fire.

• 1:10:42Speaker 01

  The meat was processed, it wasn't time to eat or like to to break down the the bowl, but that would have been great. Tenderloins over a fire would have been amazing. We just didn't do it. But the point is, in that moment, there's no other place on earth, no other time in my life that I would rather be. That is, that was the pinnacle of life for me.

• 1:11:04Joe Rogan?

  That's a normal, natural experience for primitive man.

• 1:11:08Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:11:09Joe Rogan?

  That's what it is. And it's how we stayed alive. And the way I describe it to people, there's a feeling, most people have caught a fish. There's a feeling when someone catches a fish, like even a child. When I took my daughter bass fishing, she was like six, I think. She caught a bunch of bass. And the feeling that she got when she hooked it, like, oh, her eyes light up. It is built in us. It's inside of us. But catching a fish, bow hunting and in the mountains, killing an animal, cooking it over a fire with your boys, is that times a thousand.

• 1:11:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:11:44Joe Rogan?

  It's a crazy, built in, we did what we have to do and we're looking forward to doing it again. So that that the intense experience, the difficulty, all of it, you're sitting there relaxed, you're eating, and you have no doubt, you can't wait to do that again. You're not like, man, I don't want to do this again. This was nuts. You're like, yeah, I'm fucking tired, but that was awesome.

• 1:12:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:05Joe Rogan?

  That was awesome. You take the pack off like, woo!

• 1:12:08Speaker 01

  Dude.

• 1:12:08Joe Rogan?

  You're sitting there by the fire like, holy shit, you're drenched in sweat, your legs are gone. Everybody's around smiling like, we fucking did it. We did it.

• 1:12:15Speaker 01

  I just don't know how, I mean, you hope the films can show that and but

• 1:12:23Joe Rogan?

  Gives you a peek.

• 1:12:23Speaker 01

  To feel it.

• 1:12:24Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:12:25Speaker 01

  It's, I I would, I wish everybody could feel it, just so they'd know.

• 1:12:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:32Speaker 01

  It'll never happen, but it's it's so pow, it's life changing.

• 1:12:35Joe Rogan?

  Do you remember Israel Adesanya's speech after he knocked out Pereira?

• 1:12:38Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 1:12:39Speaker 01

  What'd he say?

• 1:12:40Joe Rogan?

  He he goes, I wish, he goes, people of the world, I would, play it, let's play it, because it's fucking amazing. It's fucking amazing. So this is Alex Pereira. This is a guy that had beaten him three times.

• 1:12:49Speaker 01

  Three times, yeah.

• 1:12:50Joe Rogan?

  Knocked him out in kickboxing, knocked him out in MMA, and then finally he knocked him out.

• 1:12:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:12:55Joe Rogan?

  And this is like, everybody was like terrified of him taking this rematch. Pereira can't be stopped. Pereira's a destroyer. He's the scariest guy ever. But he asked me to to give him the microphone.

• 1:13:12Joe Rogan?

  Look at that.

• 1:13:23Speaker 03

  What a human.

• 1:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I love Stylevender. Oh, he's the best. Holy shit. He's the best.

• 1:13:34Speaker 06

  Yes, sir.

• 1:13:36Speaker 06

  Hey, shush, shush, listen up. I want to say something. People, Earth, I need to say something. Listen to me. I hope every one of you behind the screens on this arena can feel this level of happiness just one time in your life. I hope all of you can feel how [bleep] happy I am just one time in your life. But guess what? You'll never feel this level of happiness if you don't go for something in your own life. When they knock you down, when they try [bleep] on you, when they talk [bleep] about you, and they try and put their foot on your neck. If you stay down, you will never, ever get that resolve. Fortify your mind and feel this level of happiness as you rise.

• 1:14:21Speaker 06

  One time in your life, but I'm blessed to be able to feel this [bleep] again.

• 1:14:25Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:10Joe Rogan?

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• 1:15:55Joe Rogan?

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• 1:16:12Joe Rogan?

  And again and again and again and again.

• 1:16:17Speaker 03

  That's so good.

• 1:16:19Joe Rogan?

  Greatest post-fight speech of all time.

• 1:16:21Speaker 01

  You know what I love too is like even in that moment, like there's a little bit of blood starting to trickle out of his nose, you know, I mean, cause he looks, he looks really good.

• 1:16:30Speaker 03

  He does.

• 1:16:30Speaker 01

  For just fighting, but it's like there's little, you know, the sweat, the blood trickling. Oh, man.

• 1:16:36Joe Rogan?

  He was getting hit, man. He was getting hit.

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  Fucking legit.

• 1:16:38Joe Rogan?

  And his left leg was already destroyed.

• 1:16:40Speaker 01

  Oh, didn't take many of those.

• 1:16:41Joe Rogan?

  No, he was talking to me about it afterwards. He's like, that motherfucker got me again. I was thinking that before that he got my fucking leg again. Cause that was a part of the problem with the first fight.

• 1:16:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:50Joe Rogan?

  First MMA fight. Um, his left leg was destroyed. He couldn't move his left leg. So even though he's like bobbing, he's like, I was okay. He goes, but I couldn't get out of there. He goes, I couldn't move my fucking leg, man. He goes, I was getting hit, but I was still there. I was moving like he was still moving around, but he couldn't go away. Like his leg was destroyed and that's what people don't think about when you, when you like special those goddamn calf kicks.

• 1:17:13Speaker 01

  Yeah. He probably knew after the first one, he was like, fuck.

• 1:17:17Joe Rogan?

  He got me again. He destroys people's legs and then you're a sitting duck in front of the scariest puncher in the history of the division.

• 1:17:23Speaker 01

  Hands of stone there.

• 1:17:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh my God, he's fucking terrifying. And for him to catch him with that perfect right hand off the cage like that. Oh my, and then shoot the arrows into him. Greatest post-fight celebration, greatest post-fight speech of all time, of all time. There's not even a second place that, that really, except Rose Namajunas. That one time when she was saying, I'm the best.

• 1:17:46Joe Rogan?

  That was pretty powerful. That was pretty powerful, too.

• 1:17:49Speaker 01

  Jamie, could you find that tent scene at the end of that video? So, but here's what I, here's what I was curious about is, um, oh, he did find it. Yeah, like right here. So the difference between Israel's happiness and this happiness.

• 1:18:05Speaker 06

  I'll do anything you want to do. But you know, you go until you're just sick of the weight and you get it under the tree in the shade. And you get all kind of energized, come back, drink some water, grab another. And then mentally, you're not coming back to here.

• 1:18:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:19Speaker 06

  I mean, you get it all across the creek in that.

• 1:18:22Speaker 05

  I mean, it doesn't get anymore in the bottom.

• 1:18:26Speaker 01

  That was a pack out, but I wouldn't want it any other way. Wayne, he had a horse packer set up and then I, I had also talked to Cal Halliday. And when I was in there by myself on an opening weekend, he said, hey, if you kill a bull in here by yourself, he goes, let me know, send me a text or something. I'll have, you know, four or five guys here within five hours to help pack. So, no, it wasn't opening weekend, but I'm like, I told Wayne that and I said, he goes, well, who do you want to, who do you want to get a hold of? You want to get a hold of Cal or do you want to get a hold of the horse packer? And I'm like,

• 1:19:00Speaker 01

  I think I'd rather have Cal with some other badass, you know, mountain guys and just share this pack out with them.

• 1:19:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, but it's less of a jungle, too.

• 1:19:10Speaker 01

  So these guys right here.

• 1:19:11Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that area is sick.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  You don't want any other people and Tanner's got so much weight on this. Cal, they got up, I don't know what time, three in the morning, made it all the way there. They said they'd be there at 8 a.m. They were down at my bull at 8:01. And I don't, I mean, this is miles and miles and miles, just, you know, just studs.

• 1:19:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:19:33Speaker 01

  And so, yeah, it's like, uh, I'll never forget that. I'll never forget the whole, obviously the whole hunt, but that morning was a special one. Cal, Eric, Keith and Ryan.

• 1:19:43Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that bull's massive.

• 1:19:45Speaker 05

  Yeah, so thankful for them.

• 1:19:47Joe Rogan?

  That bullet's massive.

• 1:19:49Speaker 01

  So it's like, here's, but that's a juxtaposition is to me, that was my Israel-Atosanya moment about I will never be happier. But look how, look how different those moments are. Ones in front of a huge crowd, millions of people watching, being, you know, getting all that attention from all those people. And then I'm, I guarantee just as happy or happier right there. Isn't that crazy?

• 1:20:14Joe Rogan?

  It is crazy.

• 1:20:14Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's your thing and your fan, your thing.

• 1:20:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:16Speaker 03

  I always talk about that, like people just trying to find their thing.

• 1:20:19Speaker 01

  What's your thing?

• 1:20:19Speaker 03

  Yeah. My thing's outdoors and bowing.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  So Israel's thing is fighting. So for, for him, that's the pinnacle.

• 1:20:27Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  For us, whatever your thing is, get to the pinnacle, right? That's a lesson.

• 1:20:33Joe Rogan?

  Find, find happiness in that.

• 1:20:36Speaker 03

  Do you think?

• 1:20:37Joe Rogan?

  Whatever it is, whatever it is for you.

• 1:20:39Speaker 03

  That you talking about your daughter catching that fish and it's like this primal instinct inside of her that just flares up, that fighters have that same feeling, like it's a primal feeling.

• 1:20:50Joe Rogan?

  Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah. It's a little more conflicted Doug, depending upon how bad you hurt your opponent. When you hurt them really bad, it's a very, it's a very conflicting moment because you know that could have been you. And some guys don't get that feeling. Some guys, they, they're like, good, fuck him. But a lot of guys, it's like, woof. There's some guys that knock a guy out real bad and then they almost want to retire afterwards. They're just like, I don't want to do that to anybody anymore, you know? Especially guys that have killed guys, like Ray Mancini, when he killed Duck Kukim, I don't think he was ever the same again. There's a few guys like that in history that have had boxing matches where they killed a guy and then they were kind of never the same after that.

• 1:21:27Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's some scary shit.

• 1:21:28Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Cause you realize like, this is what, this is what you're doing.

• 1:21:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, mortality.

• 1:21:31Joe Rogan?

  This, this could lead to that happening to you. And you think about your kids watching on TV and crying, or even worse there, while you're getting beat up. I always freak out when guys bring their kids. I'm like, oh man, bringing a kid to a fight, you know?

• 1:21:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:46Joe Rogan?

  I've seen guys get knocked out in front of their kids and it's particularly devastating, particularly devastating, especially when you really like the guy. It's rough. It's a it's a rough way to make a living. But those guys, when they get that belt strapped around them, when their hands get raised and the whole audience screams and cheers, it's like, that's a special moment. That's a special moment that very few people ever get to experience.

• 1:22:09Speaker 01

  Unless they kill a bull in the wilderness.

• 1:22:11Joe Rogan?

  I don't even know if it's the same. They're all they're all it's a it's a different kind of happiness. I think yours is more sustained. Yours lasts longer.

• 1:22:19Speaker 01

  That's what I say. It's like, I don't know, like, Israel said he was happy. Is that, I guess that's what it is.

• 1:22:24Joe Rogan?

  But you know what the the reality is? After the happiness dies off for a couple of days, then you start thinking about your next fight. And you immediately start getting that anxiety again.

• 1:22:33Speaker 03

  I think that's a good drive in life, though, right? Because you don't just do that elk hunt and be like, I'm done now. You know, it's like not, what's the next one? You know, and it's like that constant pursuit.

• 1:22:43Joe Rogan?

  And it's also like constantly recognizing that you're always going to be at least trying to get better. You're that's you're always trying to get better. And anything that is going to give you like real happiness is going to be very difficult. Because you're not really going to ever be able to master it, whatever it is. It's like that. That's where it is. The the the real it's it's in the pursuit of it. And along the way, recognizing that you consistently keep getting better. But it's like a, there's a dream that you're chasing that you're never going to get to. You're never going to get to bow hunting perfection. It doesn't exist.

• 1:23:15Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:23:15Joe Rogan?

  You can get really close. You you've gotten really, really close. But we're human and it's the wild and there's all sorts of weird variables that happen. There's branches and sticks and wind and this and that, and it's impossible to be perfect.

• 1:23:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:31Joe Rogan?

  And that's part of the magic of it.

• 1:23:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:23:33Joe Rogan?

  Part of the magic of it is that when you're in the moment and it's all happening, it's all so open ended. Like, any result can take place. You you really do not know how this is all going to go down. You haven't seen it all play out and you might you might imagine how it's going to play out. But it's going to play out in unique situations. Some of them will be similar. Some of them will be completely different.

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:54Joe Rogan?

  And you've got to figure it out. Like, you were telling me that crazy story that I was talking to you about the podcast, where you're shooting down at this bull, like, from like a cliff, like, straight down.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, San Carlos this year was a, so I ranged the bull. It was a huge cliff. And what I thought is I'd get up there and I'd be able to see the flat. And there were some bulls down there. It was a tough year in in Arizona's, the drought, but a. From that cliff, I thought that'd be a great vantage point to see where these bulls were in plan of stock. So get way up there. Actually, there's sheep right above us, too. It's like crazy rugged country. But get up there on that cliff and I'm look kind of looking out over the expanse there. And then I look straight down below me. There's this big bull and like straight down. I'm like, it's like, if you're hunting mule deer, you know, they always bed up against the cliffs. Because so their backs protected, the wind's coming up, they can

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  monitor the down below them with their nose. They know nothing's coming from the back. That's how mule deer bed to to survive. Well, this bull had done that same thing. And it was it had just stood up from the base of the cliff. And I looked down, I range it 42 yards, which people who know if it's the rangefinder is telling you to shoot for 42, that means straight down, that means it's probably close to 60 yards, you know, because the range, the rangefinder does a calculation. If you shoot flat, that's the gravity affects one thing. If you shoot straight down, gravity has less effect. So it's saying even though it's further, you would shoot for less distance is how that works. So it told me to shoot

• 1:25:26Speaker 01

  for 42. That means it's at probably 60 straight down. And that's a long shot with it with a bow. And then I had to shooting straight down, I had to I thought that I was like going to go straight through his spine because I was straight above him. I'm like, well, I'm going to come right behind the shoulders, straight through his spine into his vitals. I thought that should do it. So I shoot, I hit that bull like about, I would say an inch off the spine. I show it. There's a video of it on that, the video we just watched for people who are interested. But about an inch off that spine into his chest and the bull went about 100 yards. But yeah, it was, I never, I've never done a shot like that before in my life. You know, you think about different scenarios. I'd never even thought

• 1:26:10Speaker 01

  about one like that on a bull elk at that distance, at that angle.

• 1:26:14Joe Rogan?

  So that is even so where?

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's it's back. This is the that's the winna ha bull, but it's back, Jamie, about I was talking about getting ready for this hunt. And it shows like a few clips of a The bull I killed in Colorado, then the Arizona bull, then I did another hunt in Utah. And I killed a bull there to get prepared for, for the Oregon hunt. But, uh, yeah, it was just, I'd never even really thought that that shot would be a potential one.

• 1:26:40Joe Rogan?

  The Oregon hunt is crazy because of the wilderness is so dense.

• 1:26:45Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:26:45Joe Rogan?

  Oregon is nuts.

• 1:26:46Speaker 03

  Forest hunt.

• 1:26:47Joe Rogan?

  It's a, it's like a rainforest.

• 1:26:49Speaker 01

  It's like Jurassic Park, and that's in eastern Oregon. That's the dry part of the state.

• 1:26:53Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 1:26:54Speaker 01

  But it's such, such a hole there, so much wa- moisture down there, that it turned into like Jurassic Park. With that bull coming in bugling, it was like a dinosaur.

• 1:27:04Speaker 03

  It looks sick.

• 1:27:05Joe Rogan?

  But there's nothing that matches that. That aspect of elk hunting makes it so much cooler.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:10Joe Rogan?

  It's the sound they make when they're coming in. Cause it's just like, all of your, your fucking pores pop up.

• 1:27:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:17Joe Rogan?

  It's like you get goosebumps all over your body. Your back, your neck, the hair stands up. It's like the scream is like, whoa.

• 1:27:23Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:27:24Joe Rogan?

  It's so, it is my favorite sound.

• 1:27:26Speaker 01

  It's amazing.

• 1:27:27Speaker 03

  Oh, they're incredible animals.

• 1:27:28Joe Rogan?

  When you hear, when you're close and there's an elk screaming through the woods and he's coming close towards you, that, the thrill of that is like nothing else, like nothing else.

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  No. And, and people who haven't heard it, they hear that and they're like, what the fuck is that?

• 1:27:45Joe Rogan?

  Right. It sounds like demons.

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  It's, it's weird that there's an animal on this planet that makes that noise. If, if we hadn't done this our whole lives and we heard that, it would be like,

• 1:27:56Speaker 01

  what is going on?

• 1:27:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. If you had done what A- Adam did in Japan and not research, like what, what kind of animals are in the area? And you were camping out and you heard that scream, you'd be like, oh my God, we're surrounded by demons.

• 1:28:07Speaker 03

  No, I've had people tell me stories, like there's something really weird in the woods there.

• 1:28:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:28:12Speaker 03

  And then, but you find out it's like fellow deer or red deer, uh, living in there. And it's like just their breeding period. And they're just roaring and just people are like, what the fuck is that?

• 1:28:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:21Speaker 03

  It's like, actually, it's just a deer.

• 1:28:23Joe Rogan?

  Stag have the craziest roar. It's such a weird noise.

• 1:28:26Speaker 03

  Elk are actually make a real pussy sound.

• 1:28:29Speaker 01

  Compared to a

• 1:28:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, for their size, yeah.

• 1:28:32Speaker 01

  Well, like an African lion, because I heard those when I was hunting over there. Like they're by the river and so we're like, an African lion in the middle of the night. They're

• 1:28:42Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:28:43Speaker 01

  Like, oh my god, it just like reverberates through the whatever we were, jungle.

• 1:28:49Joe Rogan?

  If there's anything that lights up your DNA, the sound of a lion must just chill your fucking cells.

• 1:28:57Speaker 01

  Nothing like that either, nothing like that either. But you know, here's one, here's an exciting thing. So for people listening that maybe didn't grow up hunting. What, we were talking about this in the green room last night when we're getting high off all the smoke.

• 1:29:10Speaker 03

  We weren't smoking, but we got high.

• 1:29:13Speaker 01

  It's, um, what's crazy is nowadays, you know, we're 58, you're 45, right? But we're just getting even better physically. So, so you say you can't master bow hunting, right? Because you only had a certain window, like normally how hunting works is you're young and strong. All the endurance in the world, but you don't know shit, right? You don't have the experience. So by the time you get the experience and you're old and broke down, you can't take advantage of the experience. So you have to have a wisdom, the wisdom you gained when you're young, you utilize when you're old to kill. Well, now we can gain all that experience and wisdom. Like I've been, I've been, you know, hunting for 40 some years. And I'm also at the best I've ever been physically.

• 1:29:57Speaker 01

  You marry those two up, look out.

• 1:30:00Joe Rogan?

  That's what's nuts is that didn't exist before.

• 1:30:01Speaker 01

  Right. So like we go to ways to well today and get stem cell and get, you know, the IV treatments and get everything else to be able to operate at our absolute prime at 58 years old with 40 years of experience?

• 1:30:15Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:30:15Speaker 01

  That's, that's tough. That's, you're going to have success if you do it right. So. Yeah, not everybody's gonna be in that situation where they grew up hunting like me, but you even think about Jelly Roll at 41 years old. So, he just started bow hunting. You started bow hunting in your 40s and now you've been doing it for 15 years. And you're getting better. So, there's hope for even people 40, 50, whatever. With this new science and treatment and supplements and things like that, you can still be very active and still take on new intense endeavors like bow hunting or just hunting in general and have success. And it might change your entire life. Like Jelly Roll is a different fucking person.

• 1:30:56Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:57Speaker 01

  In two years, he's a different person. A different human.

• 1:31:00Joe Rogan?

  A totally different human.

• 1:31:01Speaker 01

  That should be exciting for people listening.

• 1:31:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, they should learn that you could do it too. And it's that, and having more energy, like say if you're not into bow hunting, you say if you're not, like, I don't want to be a marathon runner, whatever. Whatever it is, if your body is healthier, whatever the thing you do, you'll have more energy.

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  You're gonna be better at it.

• 1:31:21Joe Rogan?

  You're gonna be better at it. You're gonna have, like, why do people cognitively decline when they get older? Well, a big part of it is you're declining overall. Everything's declining. Everything about you is declining. Of course, your brain is declining as well. Like, your entire existence is fading. But, the more you can have energy, the more you have vitality, the more you can do what, I don't care if you play chess, whatever the fuck it is that you like to do, paint, whatever it is you like to do, the more energy you have, the more energy you'll be able to apply to that thing you do.

• 1:31:54Speaker 03

  The more enjoyable it is, the better quality of life, the happier you are.

• 1:31:58Joe Rogan?

  Including all the other stuff, you know, just being with your family, you'll have more energy to do stuff. You'll be more, you'll have more life. You'll have more life energy.

• 1:32:10Speaker 01

  Here's a... Um, one mindset I've tried to take on with, with, especially with hunting, because that's all, all I really fucking care about. Yeah. Is improving and learning on every time. And I, I could even think about like, I was telling somebody, I don't know who, but on every, I try to learn something on every stock. Yeah. And when I think about when you killed the sable the other day. So we're there and, and you, you have to weigh out so many things on a stock. When you're getting ready to, to kill an animal or potentially kill an animal. But we're thinking about, okay, we have the wind, the wind is, that's the biggest thing with bow hunting. So I knew where the wind was, but then also it's like, well, do we go stay in the shade? So you, the sun wouldn't blind you as it was going down.

• 1:32:56Speaker 01

  But if we stay in the shade, we're not perfectly downwind. So I'm like, well, the sun's going to set, the winds change because thermals change. If we're to the side in the shade, so you don't have to deal with the sun. Then when that wind becomes unstable, it's more likely to smell us. So we should be all the way downwind, but that means we're going to have to shoot before the sun gets too low to where it's not blinding you. To get to the side, then you have to figure out what's the path to get there to where we're not making noise for the animal to hear. Well, it's straight to the, I don't know if you remember that tree. And I said, head straight to that tree. And from that tree, then I was thinking, you should have a lane, because there was brush all around, but it looked to me like

• 1:33:38Speaker 01

  from that tree, you would have a lane to shoot at 28 yards. But you're still factoring in all these, the wind, the sun, the everything else, what's the animal going to do? It's just so fascinating to think about, but I know some people hunt and I don't think they think about it in those details, you know what I mean? They're just kind of like, oh, there's an animal, what do I do? But like, that's, that's not how, that's not how you master the moment. You master the moment by, and I said this a lot of times too, on, on many of these hunts, I was telling Jelly Roll this. I was like, everything matters. Everything. The little thing matters.

• 1:34:16Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:17Speaker 01

  The big things obviously matter.

• 1:34:18Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:19Speaker 01

  But everything matters. And that's what hunting teaches us. And in life, you can make it through regular life on this fake world that I keep talking about by ignoring a lot of things, not on a hunt.

• 1:34:33Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, we had to think about a lot of things on that stalk.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  On a hunt, everything matters.

• 1:34:37Joe Rogan?

  And one of the big ones that we had to think about was as that sun was dropping. So we were standing there waiting for this stable to get up. It had bedded and it didn't know we were there and we creeped into the spot we were slowly.

• 1:34:51Speaker 01

  Do you remember, and so do you remember that tactic?

• 1:34:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:54Speaker 01

  Remember what I said?

• 1:34:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:34:55Speaker 01

  If you move slow enough, they won't pick it up.

• 1:34:57Joe Rogan?

  Right, because they look for movement. So we were, we were moving like, you know, like an inch every 30 seconds. We were like barely moving.

• 1:35:04Speaker 01

  Because what I've found is animals, I've been in the wide open on a caribou, went right at it, but so slow, it was just like, that can't be anything. Nothing does that.

• 1:35:15Speaker 03

  No sideways movement.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  No.

• 1:35:16Joe Rogan?

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• 1:37:14Speaker 01

  No, and just, but steady and slow, and they just won't spook.

• 1:37:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and we had to figure out where to stand. And then when we got where we were, as we're standing there, we're standing there for quite a while. I realized, oh, this sun is going to be impossible, because it's slowly lowering in the sky, and it's literally above this sable's head now. And I'm like, okay, if we don't get this thing to stand up, I'm not going to be able to see it. Because I had my hat on, right? So I blocked myself from the hat, and then I was trying to train my eyes to just look at it through, you know, just like the haze of the sun. I was like, this is going to be a real problem. So we decided, let's get him to stand up. So Cam took his arrow out of his quiver and started tapping on this branch, and then started like moving towards it. And sable are beasts, bro.

• 1:38:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:01Joe Rogan?

  First of all, those motherfuckers, they kill lions occasionally. Like, they get attacked, and they're fierce. Like, they're not, so it wasn't exactly easy to spook.

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:38:12Joe Rogan?

  So you had to kind of like move towards a little bit, and then it started grunting at you, like, fuck off.

• 1:38:16Speaker 01

  Fuck off, bitch.

• 1:38:17Joe Rogan?

  Fuck off, bitch. And then finally, it stood up. And when it stood up, we got him.

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:21Joe Rogan?

  But it was, you know, it was a shot where I was like, I gotta do this real soon, because otherwise, I'm not going to be able to see.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:28Joe Rogan?

  Fortunately, I could, and I can get the pin right where it needed to be, but it was like, I was, and I was telling you afterwards, I was like, I avoid shooting into the sun.

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:37Joe Rogan?

  When I have my targets, I always put a target in the other way, so, and I'm like, I can't do that anymore. Now I have to start shooting into the sun sometimes.

• 1:38:43Speaker 01

  Practice it all.

• 1:38:44Joe Rogan?

  You gotta get that feeling, because that had happened also on a hunt with Tom Land. We were up in Utah. And um this bull was a nice bull. It was about sixty yards and it was coming across this ridge. The sun was right in my eyes. And he's like, why didn't you shoot? I was like, I could, I just couldn't. It was too, too blurry. It was too, the sun was right fucking there. And I remember thinking that at that time, this was years ago, thinking at that time, I need to shoot into the sun. And I did, I never did.

• 1:39:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:39:13Joe Rogan?

  I never did. I just like, it won't come up. I just won't take the shot. I'll do what I did then, I won't take the shot.

• 1:39:17Speaker 03

  And if you're not comfortable, you don't have to take the shot.

• 1:39:19Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but in this situation, I was like, I know, it's not a long shot. It's only twenty eight yards and it's a big animal. And I'm, I'm pretty confident I got this. I was like, I gotta factor all these things in and then not let doubt creep into my head. You know, stay totally calm. So there's all these things going on simultaneously.

• 1:39:39Speaker 01

  It's a lot. It's a lot to manage.

• 1:39:41Joe Rogan?

  It's a lot.

• 1:39:41Speaker 01

  But it, but also a lot to, a lot of factors to consider and then learn from.

• 1:39:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Oh, I learned a lot from that hunt. I learned a lot. First of all, I learned how fucking tough sable are.

• 1:39:52Joe Rogan?

  That was the same experience like I told you I had with Neil Guy, that I shot that Neil Guy in South Texas. And he ran like I didn't even hit it. I hit it perfect. The arrow went right through him. It was the arrow, we found the arrow thirty yards past where I hit. It was covered in blood, so we knew he was dead. But he ran like he never even got hit. He ran full speed like a cheetah. It was crazy. And the, the guide I was with was like, yeah, man, they grew up around tigers. Like these things evolved around tigers. Like they don't just take getting hit and go, oh no, I'm in trouble. They fucking run. They're so tough and they barely bleed. That's the other thing about these, these animals that grow up around big predators. Boy, they clog up their holes really quick. They don't leave much of a blood trail. It's not like an elk or a deer.

• 1:40:37Joe Rogan?

  It's different.

• 1:40:38Speaker 01

  Yeah. I think Adam, Adam explains this well. Sometimes you talk about when you hit them, if they're stretched out than when they're not stretched out. You know, it's like, it just changes that, that the entrance wound and the exit wound, if there is one, it just changes. There's different layers of muscle and hide over it where it just blocks up that blood.

• 1:41:00Joe Rogan?

  They clog up quicker too, just period. Like whatever their anatomy is, the difference is when you hit them, they don't, they just don't bleed much.

• 1:41:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, I got a buddy that always, you know, someone's like, it was the perfect shot. And it's like, well, actually it wasn't because it'd be dead already.

• 1:41:15Speaker 03

  So it's like, and I know what you're saying, but the truth is double lungs is double lungs. And there's so many variations, like that reaction, they close up the gap or what broadhead you use. And if the animal's breathing out when the arrow shoots through the lungs, or whether it's just taking a bunch of oxygen in. You know, there's all.

• 1:41:31Joe Rogan?

  Larger target.

• 1:41:32Speaker 03

  Yeah, and there's all those different, plus just more energy to run on.

• 1:41:38Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:41:38Speaker 03

  And then, you know, you'll see certain hunters that shoot something, it's not even dead yet. And they're like, yeah, and start yahoo. And it's like, what? Shut the fuck up because that brings on an adrenaline rush. Animals can run further. Whereas you just want a nice, relaxed setup, you know, and it's just a hit. They don't know what's going on. The beauty of the bow, because it's so quiet. There's not a loud gunshot behind it or anything. And then, you know, just so they're relaxed, they don't want to run as fast. They want to give up earlier because they've got nothing to spook from or fight from. So.

• 1:42:08Joe Rogan?

  And they don't know what happened.

• 1:42:09Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, sometimes they think they got jabbed by another bull or something, like what happened?

• 1:42:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:42:14Joe Rogan?

  Because everything's crazy. They're all rutting and screaming at each other and clashing antlers. Then all of a sudden, whack, like what the fuck is that?

• 1:42:20Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:42:21Speaker 03

  Utah, Utah this year, the bull that I shot, he'd just been in the fight with another bull. So he was all revved up from that other bull. So I literally hit him and he just, he thought he got poked by an antler from another bull, you know, and it's, he went 20 yards. Was standing for 14 seconds, drop dead, nice, beautiful, peaceful, right in front of me. They don't all happen like that, but that's what we're after.

• 1:42:41Joe Rogan?

  That's what you're after. That's why you practice. That's why you shoot so many arrows. To have it drop right in front is the greatest thing ever.

• 1:42:48Speaker 01

  And I think that does impact the taste of the meat too. If you don't have them shoot that adrenaline back through their body. Where it's a peaceful death, I think it does impact the taste.

• 1:42:58Joe Rogan?

  That's what they say.

• 1:42:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:42:59Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it makes sense. I mean, don't they do that with, uh, when they want to call animals? Like, uh, like, or if they want to shoot animals, rather not call them, uh, shoot them for commercial purposes, they shoot them in the head, right?

• 1:43:10Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:43:11Speaker 01

  They put a bolt in their head, but yeah, I mean.

• 1:43:13Joe Rogan?

  But I'm, no, I mean, like, like in.

• 1:43:17Joe Rogan?

  Like Axis deer for meat, they shoot them in the head.

• 1:43:19Speaker 01

  Definitely. No, but like even like when they kill cattle. They're not getting those things wound up.

• 1:43:24Joe Rogan?

  Right, of course, of course. You want them to be as calm as possible. The opposite of what that mountain lion did to that cow.

• 1:43:31Joe Rogan?

  Imagine eating that. Imagine you ate that cow. That guy would be like, I got anxiety. It's probably in the meat itself.

• 1:43:39Speaker 03

  I've got issues. Taking it back to the health journey, how you were saying, like, you know, where we are now with, you know, modern treatments and wellness is incredible. Like, I feel like my, I feel like my body's the best it's ever been. You know, and I'm obviously the oldest I've ever been, which is crazy to think of. Like, how can, how can I feel better than I do? How can I feel better now than I did in my early twenties? You know, we've probably out any injuries and stuff like that. So it's, and I've got you to thank for that by introducing me to Brigham and Ways to Well, so.

• 1:44:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my pleasure. I want more people to know about it. I want everybody to be healthy. It's possible. You can get healthier. Like, look at Jelly Roll. The guy was five hundred plus pounds and now he's running. Now he ran a ten K the day before he came to the studio. And then when we went to the gym together and he ran two point six miles on the treadmill while he was talking. We're laughing. He's joking around. They don't know me, son. He's having a good old time. And, you know, he just seemed so happy. We got in the sauna together. We're laughing. It's like he's just a different guy. He's got so much, and he's, he's so, he's so excited about this journey that he's on. This journey of self-improvement, this journey of health.

• 1:44:52Joe Rogan?

  You know, he's gonna be there for his kids. He's gonna be there for his wife now. He's worried about dying before. You know, he told a story about falling, like laying on his arm and he couldn't get up. He was trapped and he didn't have.

• 1:45:03Speaker 01

  In bed.

• 1:45:04Joe Rogan?

  In bed. He couldn't get up. He couldn't, couldn't, and he thought he was gonna die. He's like, I'm so big that I'm laid on my arm and I don't have that strength to get out of this position because I'm so big.

• 1:45:14Speaker 03

  What a change.

• 1:45:15Joe Rogan?

  And now he's running and bow hunting.

• 1:45:17Speaker 03

  Yeah, he's substance now. Like, that's, like, that substance will just keep him going, you know, to find those things and what makes him happy.

• 1:45:25Joe Rogan?

  And, you know, the problem is a lot of people oftentimes compare themselves to other people that are already on that path. This is another thing that we talked about.

• 1:45:35Joe Rogan?

  You just get on the path. Don't worry about how people are ahead of you. Just you be ahead of yourself. Next week, you're ahead of where you were this week. The week after that, you'll be ahead of you. It's just a path.

• 1:45:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:46Joe Rogan?

  Just get so, so what if other people have been on the path further than you? Like, that's how you get better at stuff. And that, that is what's exciting about life is this path of improvement. And whatever you do and, and actually being a human being, be a better human. You can do that. Everybody can get on that path.

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah, it's just that's what I told Jelly is that, you know, you can wander around off the path for your whole life and never really have like, fuck, I never, never really figured it out. But once you make it like, like where he's on, you know, being healthy, eating better, exercising, he, you know, the mountains have given him, I always say the mountains heal or nature heals. So he's there now. It's like, yeah, of course there's people who are way ahead because they've been on it longer. There's people who are not quite on it. Maybe they're going to be faster than him and they pass him. But all on the right path, head in the right direction, that's a beautiful place to be. And that's where he's at.

• 1:46:41Joe Rogan?

  It is. And one of the things that I said to Jelly when we were on the podcast, I was like, what you're doing is inspiring millions of people to live a better life. 100%. What you're doing is so beneficial to human beings all over the world. Because now millions of people have seen that podcast. Millions of people have heard that story. Millions of people have seen those clips that have been shared all throughout social media. And how many people got excited by that? And it gave them fuel and energy to want to go do something. It gave them that inspiration that we all desperately crave to want to go out and take those first fucking steps. And then, once you do that, then you're operating on momentum and it's so much easier. This is another thing that people have to understand.

• 1:47:25Joe Rogan?

  The first steps are the hardest. It's so hard to move. It's so hard to get going. But once you get going, then you operate on momentum. Once you have a good day, then you go, I did it. I had a good day. Let's do it again tomorrow. And then you get excited about it. You look forward to waking up. And then you get through it that day like we fucking did it again. And now I'm looking forward to the now I'm eating healthier. Now I cut off the sugar and now I'm drinking water with electrolytes. And now I'm feeling better. I have more energy and just keep going.

• 1:47:57Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:47:57Joe Rogan?

  Just keep going and momentum is so much easier than that first step. The first step of changing your life is so hard because we're just so afraid of pain. We're so afraid of suffering. We're so afraid of like just the discomfort. We've been programmed to think that discomfort is a bad thing. It's not.

• 1:48:16Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:48:17Joe Rogan?

  It's not. It's necessary.

• 1:48:19Speaker 01

  I think that Jelly Roll might, I mean, I think we've talked about this, but could he impact more people than anyone ever has in that regard?

• 1:48:29Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:48:29Speaker 03

  We were talking about that today.

• 1:48:31Joe Rogan?

  A hundred percent.

• 1:48:32Speaker 01

  Because it's like, it's not like, you know, even Israel or your favorite NFL guy or NBA, they're, they're elite, right? So when they succeed, you're like, ah, fuck, of course, you know, he's six, eight, two, sixty. Of course he's going to be great. But when you see somebody like Jelly Roll who came from five hundred and forty pounds,

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  that's like, he's already at the furthest end of like, you know, like what you'd have to overcome.

• 1:48:59Joe Rogan?

  Yes.

• 1:49:00Speaker 01

  And for him to do that, anybody else is closer to the, to the goal than he's, he was at that time. So it's like, nobody's in worse shape, really.

• 1:49:09Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:09Speaker 01

  You know, you, you hardly.

• 1:49:10Joe Rogan?

  Literally morbidly obese.

• 1:49:11Speaker 01

  You can't be in worse shape, you know?

• 1:49:13Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:49:14Speaker 01

  And if he's doing it, everyone can do it. Everyone who has, who has that some, something inside him and maybe he's going to give them that something.

• 1:49:24Joe Rogan?

  One hundred percent. And he's way more famous than anybody who's ever done this before.

• 1:49:28Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:49:28Joe Rogan?

  That's the most important aspect of it. He's loved by so many people. So how many Jelly Roll fans loved him because he was like them? He was big like them, super talented, amazing guy who was also big. Like, oh, my God, I thought I was a big slob and no one's going to love me. Meanwhile, everybody loves Jelly Roll. So they love Jelly and then all of a sudden Jelly Roll's changed his life. Like, how many people are sitting there watching him and listening to him going, I think I could do it. He did it. I think I can do it.

• 1:49:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:49:57Joe Rogan?

  And you just do it the way he, you know, like he didn't start out running marathons. He tried to go for a walk.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:50:02Joe Rogan?

  You know, I mean.

• 1:50:03Speaker 01

  He would call his walk his run because he couldn't run.

• 1:50:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 1:50:06Speaker 01

  But he'd say, tell his family, his wife and that he's going to go out on his run. There's not one step of running, but the.

• 1:50:14Joe Rogan?

  The mindset.

• 1:50:15Speaker 01

  The uh, um, story he told himself was he was running. So it's that self-talk, you know, how we talk to ourselves is important. So he would tell himself, I'm gonna go run, even though there's no, not a step of running involved. But that led to running. That mindset, that, that approach of like, I'm winning today. I'm winning, it's not a run, it's a walk, but it's gonna be a run, you know?

• 1:50:38Speaker 03

  That's gotta be a massive mental achievement for him too, because I'm sure that he had a lot of mind weight to lose as well, because jail, he was in jail, right? Substance abuse, no doubt. Probably a lot of, like, that's a lot of negative stuff in someone's head. So to lose that as well, and you told me that he's such a positive person. So to, like, you know, he lost a bunch of weight, which is incredible, but what he's done to his mind, which we may never know, is really incredible too. Like, like, that's why I was saying to you this morning, this might be one of the best modern day stories of a person changing their life, when you look at Jelly, yeah.

• 1:51:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:51:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and, and it couldn't be a better representative of someone who has gone through the struggle and then come out this amazing person. Like, he's an amazing guy, like, there's very few humans that are so kind and friendly and warm and when he hugs you, he hugs you with his soul, like, he hugs you with his whole body and his soul. He's like a perfect person to be the inspiration for people to improve their life.

• 1:51:47Speaker 01

  Well, and that was so touching, like, when you shared the Grand Ole Opry

• 1:51:54Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:51:54Speaker 01

  um, inclusion for Jelly Roll from Craig Morgan, and he said, Joe, can I get a hug? I mean, two, two men, and that, to me, that was like so endearing, but also so important to show that it's okay for men to say, yeah.

• 1:52:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:52:12Speaker 01

  Can I get a hug?

• 1:52:13Joe Rogan?

  I mean, it was a man crying, it was one of the most inspirational things you could ever watch.

• 1:52:18Speaker 01

  I mean, but it, it takes a certain type, or it's one of one who does stuff like that, like him. His, his heart, that's why I say his, he's a big man, but he's got the biggest heart of anybody I've ever met, and that was an example of it, like, he just wanted Love.

• 1:52:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. He's a, he's a very important figure in our culture. He really is, he really is. You know, especially now. He always was. His music just alone is important because it's beautiful music. But the beautiful music is the expression of a beautiful soul. You know, and now he's also on this path of self-improvement and it's amazing.

• 1:52:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, that title of his album, Beautifully Broken. I mean, it's so perfect.

• 1:53:03Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it is.

• 1:53:03Speaker 01

  And he's, he's, he was broken. Probably will always be broken in some ways, we all are. But he's putting himself back together and man, he's.

• 1:53:12Joe Rogan?

  Are we all broken or do we all have negative thoughts from the past?

• 1:53:16Speaker 01

  Are we telling ourselves we're broken?

• 1:53:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 1:53:17Speaker 01

  Maybe that's it, maybe that's our self-talk.

• 1:53:19Joe Rogan?

  Obviously, we're functional, so we're not broken. You know, it's not that we're broken, it's just that.

• 1:53:23Speaker 01

  The doubt, the self-doubt?

• 1:53:25Joe Rogan?

  Well, everyone's gonna, you're gonna, you're, it's like you're a human being. The only way you figure out how to get good at something is you have to, it has to be a puzzle. Puzzles include doubt.

• 1:53:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:35Joe Rogan?

  It's always gonna be there.

• 1:53:38Joe Rogan?

  There's no getting around it.

• 1:53:41Speaker 03

  No, it's not. Yeah, but it's part, it ends up being the beauty of it, right? Yes, that's it.

• 1:53:45Joe Rogan?

  That's the beauty of it. And, and then whatever you do, doesn't, you don't have to bow hunt. It's like, you probably should, but you don't have to.

• 1:53:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:53:53Joe Rogan?

  It could be anything else.

• 1:53:53Speaker 03

  But yeah, just any struggle in life. You know, that's how I look at anything like that, that's testing or trialing or.

• 1:54:00Joe Rogan?

  And it should be, it should be interesting for you too. It should be an interesting thing. That's the, people also have this weird habit of looking at the mind in terms of only being valuable in human-created endeavors. Like the mind only being valuable in mathematics, the mind only being valuable in your ability to recite literature and your, your, your knowledge that you've gained through schooling. Like, no, no, the mind, the, the mind manages stressful situations too. That's an important aspect of intelligence, is your intelligence in being able to navigate difficult things. That is all your mind. You're using your mind, like bow hunting has so much.

• 1:54:48Joe Rogan?

  So mu- so many elements of intelligence that are woven into it. And the difference between a successful person who bow hunts and an unsuccessful person is experience and practice, but also the mind being able to learn from each individual situation and experience and get better and accumulate all this knowledge over time. You know, it's got a deep, deep learning curve. It's very deep. And the people that don't experience it and then have this classification in their head of what intelligence is, intelligence means you got a PhD. I know a lot of people with PhD that are fools. They're fools. They're emotional children. They're, they're, they're, they're filled with ego and resentment and they're shitty

• 1:55:33Joe Rogan?

  and nasty to people. They're fools. So they're not smart. They're just, they have a functional mind that they've applied to human endeavors only.

• 1:55:43Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:55:43Joe Rogan?

  And they've never, never done the big thing, never done the whole package, never put it all together.

• 1:55:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think, I think another key to being intelligent, I don't know if it's the key, but having kids, I think, is a big part of growth. And to me, it's like, I, I lump like intelligence, just, just life experience into the, the package we'd call intelligence. But like, hunting teaches us that, of course, but also raising kids and, and being responsible for a family.

• 1:56:17Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:56:18Speaker 01

  I think that's another, it's like, yeah, school doesn't teach you that shit and like the, the, the degree you got doesn't, doesn't signify that, but I don't know. I think that's a big part of it, too.

• 1:56:30Joe Rogan?

  It's, it's a giant learning experience, that's for damn sure. And it also teaches you way more compassion. It just teaches you way more loving and kind and, and you also just. You you understand from watching a baby become an amazing adult human being. You get to understand all the elements that are involved in this child's development and all the trials and tribulations. How you gotta like let them fall sometimes?

• 1:56:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:56:57Joe Rogan?

  And then help them pick themselves back up and talk to them through it. And when they're down, explain like, I'm down too. I'm always down. I've fucked up everything. Whenever my kids do anything wrong, one of the things I'd always say to them, if I was upset at them, I said, listen, I did everything that you did. I've done all this stuff. It's okay, but you can't do it, and this is why.

• 1:57:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:16Joe Rogan?

  Like, I've screwed up everything. I've done things I shouldn't have done. I'm doing exactly what you're doing right now. I've done it even worse. You're a better kid than I was.

• 1:57:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:57:25Joe Rogan?

  I always say that. So they don't think that like I'm without fault. I always say, I've done it all, but I got through it on the other side. Now I'm your dad. And the reason why I'm telling you this is because I love you. And I'm not, I'm not, I'm not trying to like be upset at you because I'm mean. Like, I'm trying to help you live a better life. And that's how I try to communicate with them about it.

• 1:57:45Speaker 01

  So in in my head, that perspective opens up other lanes of intelligence. That's that's what I'm saying. It's like you have, you can't be the, your highest form without that.

• 1:57:58Joe Rogan?

  Right. You're challenged. You're challenged by it. And you're also challenged by the discipline of it. And you, you know, you, you have people that rely on you. And that is, you can't fuck that off. You can't just like not show up for work. You can't just, you know, I just feel like sleeping in today and fucking, I'm taking a month off. Like, you can't do that. You have people that rely on you. And also, you're setting an example for them that they're gonna learn from. The people that, and your kids are a great example of that. The children of people that are very disciplined almost always have a higher threshold of discipline. I notice it. I see it in your kids for sure. I see it in my kids. They, they have more of an understanding of what's necessary in order to get things done and to be successful. Now, if you're

• 1:58:44Joe Rogan?

  A person who's a parent and you shirk every responsibility. You lie, you you steal, you you do things you're not, but you take shortcuts. You you're not truthful, you're whatever you're doing where your kids get to see like, oh. My parent is a kind of a fuckhead. You know, my parent is kind of a, one of two things happens. Either you emulate your parents and you be kind of a fuckhead or you go, I don't like that. And I'm never gonna be like that. Like, some of my friends that grew up with alcoholic parents, they've never had a drink in their fucking life and they never will. They're like, I am never touching that shit. I see what that's like because I saw my dad lose his fucking job, lose his house, lose this, lose that. Get arrested for DWI, get in a bar fight. My dad's a fucking loser and I'm not gonna be that guy.

• 1:59:29Joe Rogan?

  And so, but it's it's a toss up.

• 1:59:32Speaker 01

  Or some might emulate that.

• 1:59:34Joe Rogan?

  Some might emulate it. Yeah, I mean, some, you see your dad's a drug addict, like, let me try it.

• 1:59:38Speaker 03

  I grew up like that with a couple of closer friends and these closer friends were like, I'm never gonna be like my dad. Like, well, we'll to the core, we'll like that. We're never gonna be like our fathers. And and that's one of the reasons I don't drink because my father was a horrible alcoholic. And even though when I drink, I'm happy, I I'm just turned off it. So I don't want to do it and I guess I've gone long enough now that it doesn't interest me. And then I had another friend that I cut off because he turned out to be exactly like his dad. And even though he, the whole time he was like me, I'm never gonna be like my father and gonna be the opposite. For some reason, some people just go down the same path.

• 2:00:18Joe Rogan?

  I think it's also the stress of life. It's sometimes it's overwhelming. You know, this this thing that we look forward to in bow hunting, this like not knowing what's gonna happen. Like, you you get out there, it's early in the morning, you put your pack on, you don't know what's gonna happen today. Who knows? Some people hate that feeling.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:33Joe Rogan?

  They hate that feeling of not knowing what's gonna happen. And the uncertainty about your career and job is a weird uncertainty. It's it depends on so many factors that are sometimes out of your control and people just, they get overwhelmed and they just want to escape. They just want to escape and maybe they're doing a job they don't enjoy doing. And then the only time they feel good is when they're drunk. So they just get get off work and they can't wait to meet their boys and have a laugh. And next thing you know, you're drinking and one day turns into a month and that's your.

• 2:01:00Speaker 01

  It's just, that's distraction. They want to be distracted off their

• 2:01:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:01:04Speaker 01

  life or whatever.

• 2:01:05Joe Rogan?

  And this world will give you a lot of distractions. You could play video games and fucking get hammered and. Do heroin. Yeah, whatever it is, fill in the blank, man. You could find a lot of stuff that's not gonna be beneficial for you.

• 2:01:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a one thing that um I I think the well, so drinking and whatever. But I think the biggest uh negative thing a parent can offer their kids is blaming other like all it's always somebody else's fault.

• 2:01:36Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:01:36Speaker 01

  So it's like this discuss discussion at the house, you know, cuz kids hear everything, right? So when the dad's coming home and he's bitching about his boss or the guy at work or he's getting fucked over for this or I could do that too, but that guy kissed ass, that's why he got that, or the must be nice, whatever, like these excuse makers. Oh, you're just fucking sabotaging your kids.

• 2:01:57Joe Rogan?

  Passing it on.

• 2:01:58Speaker 01

  It's just that you never get anywhere by blaming other people for where you're at. And so many people do that because they won't accept personal responsibility for their actions or for their place in life.

• 2:02:11Joe Rogan?

  And I don't even think necessarily it's their fault. I think they've a lot of them have never seen an example of of an extraordinary person who doesn't do that. They're not there's it's rare to find a person, unfortunately, in this world, especially in society. It's rare to find a person of great character, a person who's just got impeccable character and is always truthful and is work works really hard and is loved by a lot of people. It's rare. It's rare. And so they've never experienced it. They've never been around it.

• 2:02:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:02:40Joe Rogan?

  And so they don't even know what it is.

• 2:02:41Speaker 01

  Right. They don't know that they're sabotaging.

• 2:02:44Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, and sometimes that's one of the the real places where a guy like Jelly Roll can can change people's lives. It's cuz he does talk about all of the negative shit that he's experienced and all the negative influences and all the bad people that he was around and how he was living that life. He was trapped in that way.

• 2:03:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:03Joe Rogan?

  And now he's not anymore.

• 2:03:05Speaker 01

  And and and he's so the big things, substance.

• 2:03:11Speaker 01

  Uh, criminal, lie, overweight, all those, those are usually the big things and he overcame all of them.

• 2:03:19Joe Rogan?

  All of them.

• 2:03:19Speaker 01

  So it's like, that's where that power comes from, where to influence so many people. It's cause, so what was your issue again? Yeah, well, Jelly Roll, yeah, he overcame that. Uh, wait, was there something else? Oh, that too? I mean, it's everything. All the big things he's overcome. So what, what else is there? What else are you gonna blame?

• 2:03:39Joe Rogan?

  You just gotta find a thing, find a thing, get on a path.

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:03:43Joe Rogan?

  Get moving.

• 2:03:44Speaker 01

  On the path, baby.

• 2:03:45Joe Rogan?

  Get moving bitch.

• 2:03:46Speaker 03

  I'm gonna go to the bathroom, sorry, Leds. Alright.

• 2:03:47Speaker 01

  What? See, I told you.

• 2:03:49Joe Rogan?

  He's got that Australian bladder. It's upside down.

• 2:03:52Speaker 01

  No, it's IV. I told him, I said, I said, hey, put all that shit in like this much whatever fluid, cause I don't wanna have to take a piss.

• 2:04:00Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if it works as good that way.

• 2:04:02Speaker 01

  They made it super concentrated.

• 2:04:04Joe Rogan?

  Did they really?

• 2:04:04Speaker 01

  Yeah, they did.

• 2:04:05Joe Rogan?

  That's hilarious. Why don't you just like wait and pee? I don't mind peeing. But every time I've done that, when I come here after an IV, I do the same thing after pee.

• 2:04:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:04:14Joe Rogan?

  Or after the sauna, cause after the sauna, I always drink this giant 64 ounce thing of water and electrolytes and then like an hour and a half into the podcast, I'm like, oh no.

• 2:04:24Speaker 01

  That, that hits. Jelly Roll had, he learned that lesson in the blind, cause we were sitting for hours. And like, if you haven't ever been in a position where, you know, you, you can't just get out and go pee or whatever, then you're like, ooh, I didn't know what this is. Holding, you know, he said he was gonna piss his pants. He's like, had to make a hole in the blind and pee into it, cover it up with, cause I was like, okay, just make a little hole, cover it up with dirt, whatever, and that's what he did. But uh, yeah, it was pretty, when you gotta piss, it can be miserable.

• 2:04:56Joe Rogan?

  Well, there's a mental challenge of sitting still for long periods of time. Like, I've only tree stand hunted once. I did it at Dudley's place in Iowa.

• 2:05:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:04Joe Rogan?

  And the thing about Iowa is, first of all, it's in November that you're hunting and it's so fucking cold. It's so cold and you have to sit still.

• 2:05:13Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:05:14Joe Rogan?

  You can't fucking move a muscle and you're out there for hours and hours and hours, just hoping a deer. Gets it within bow range and the only reason why they do is just they just happen to be wandering.

• 2:05:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:05:26Joe Rogan?

  And it's total luck. It's complete luck. I mean, that's why those guys, like a lot of those like real psycho Lee Lukowski guys. They, they, they'll out, they're out there for months at a time.

• 2:05:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:05:38Joe Rogan?

  They'll hunt a single buck for like 38 days or however long the season is. And they're in that damn blind every day or they're in that tree stand every day just.

• 2:05:45Speaker 01

  Dark to dark.

• 2:05:46Joe Rogan?

  Freezing their dick off, just huddling up with mittens and shit and, and then when the, and sometimes when, if you have a like a powerful bow, like you pull back. Like when it's zero degrees outside and you go to pull that thing back, you're like.

• 2:05:59Speaker 01

  Tough.

• 2:06:01Speaker 01

  You might not get it back.

• 2:06:03Joe Rogan?

  No.

• 2:06:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:06:04Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:06:05Speaker 01

  And that's a helpless feeling.

• 2:06:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:06:08Speaker 01

  Nowadays, so back in the day, back when I used to, you know, I still tree stand hunt, you know, for blacktail sometimes, but. Phones have changed like how long you can stay because you can just fuck around on your phone now.

• 2:06:19Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that's true.

• 2:06:20Speaker 01

  And then also there's heated vests.

• 2:06:23Joe Rogan?

  Uh huh.

• 2:06:24Speaker 01

  Heated socks.

• 2:06:25Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:06:25Speaker 01

  So you can have like, it's still just standing in a tree or sitting in a tree for 14 hours. Terrible.

• 2:06:33Joe Rogan?

  Still terrible.

• 2:06:34Speaker 01

  Terrible.

• 2:06:35Joe Rogan?

  Even with all that stuff.

• 2:06:35Speaker 01

  It's a little easier, but pretty terrible.

• 2:06:39Joe Rogan?

  Well, thankfully gear's a lot better too, like layering systems and you, you could stay like, you could stay alive. Let me put it that way. You're not going to be comfortable, but you could stay alive out there at zero degrees, sitting still.

• 2:06:52Speaker 01

  Dude, I didn't, so I, you know, signed on to Sitka now, but I hadn't, I had other things. I was, you know, under armor, different, whatever. And, uh, I guess I had never had good gear my entire life. Because I didn't fucking know I didn't have to be miserable in a tree stand. And, uh, so Sitka sent me, I don't know what it is. It's like some sideways, sideways zip jacket or. Yeah, it's a jacket. It's a, I can't remember what it's called, but it's polar fleece and I was like up there going.

• 2:07:24Speaker 03

  This is nice.

• 2:07:24Speaker 01

  I fucking feel good. I'm not freezing. And I had never, so like I said, I bow hunted my whole life. I guess I always just had like shit that wasn't the best and just thought, ah, it's part of the deal.

• 2:07:36Joe Rogan?

  Not just that, it doesn't restrict any of your movement.

• 2:07:38Speaker 01

  No, I, I used to have to wear like fucking seven hoodies, right? Trying to pull a bow with seven hoodies on, but that's how I had to stay warm. So with the Sitka stuff with John, John Barclough and he's kind of into design and he's a bow hunter himself. But I can have this shit on and it's not restrictive. I can pull my bow and you know, it's not, this isn't like a fucking ad for Sitka. There's, if there's other stuff out there that does that too, great. I just don't know about it. Cause I'd never had it, but man, that, that shit works good.

• 2:08:08Joe Rogan?

  There's a bunch of high level gear that's out there, but it's like whatever they've done with Sitka, they've made it so that everything works perfectly. They've dialed it in perfectly. The pants, they have the built in knee, knee pads, which is fucking huge. I love those pants. So when you're crawling on, like they're the perfect knee pads. They're super lightweight, but you could sneak around on stuff on your knees and not be in fucking agony.

• 2:08:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:08:31Joe Rogan?

  And it doesn't restrict your movement at all.

• 2:08:33Speaker 01

  The level of detail they have now on these clothes is, is.

• 2:08:37Speaker 03

  And it's more fitted, you know, I remember like stuff that we used to use, we used to complain about it together, but it's like, who are they making these pants for when the legs are that wide at the bottom still? So you're walking along hunting and it's just like.

• 2:08:50Speaker 01

  Bell bottoms and they get wet, they're fucking flopping around and shit. It makes me so pissed. I would take pictures and send a kid when he's at Under Armour or like at the pocket or something. I'm like, what the fuck is going on?

• 2:09:04Speaker 01

  But yeah, this, this stuff fits good. Yeah.

• 2:09:07Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's just, I mean, that's one of the reasons to give them props so that they stay open, stay alive. Because it's like, that, that kind of gear is so fucking important. You know, to have gear that doesn't restrict your movement, totally keeps you comfortable and warm, makes you like, so you can move around very quietly, the, the, whatever fabrics they're using, they got it dialed in, man. When you're walking, if your fabric rubs together, you don't hear a fucking thing.

• 2:09:32Speaker 03

  Yeah. And again, time's precious and we're, we're doing stuff in this time. We want to enjoy it. So we're in gear that makes us enjoy it. It's great.

• 2:09:40Joe Rogan?

  But it's just, the, the market for this, this is like one of the things that really.

• 2:09:48Joe Rogan?

  Is I think important like the market for these things that are so impactful and important to us is not a do I just touch the microphone that I fucked something up? Sounded weird on my end um that it's not a big market. There's not a lot of us out there, you know? So it's like, God, I'm so thankful that someone put so much research and development into these products, whether it's Hoyt bows or whatever you're using that you like you gotta think like, how many people how to work tirelessly to figure out how to make this thing that is so critical to your success?

• 2:10:22Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:10:23Joe Rogan?

  You know, fill in the blank binos, like whatever it is, whatever you're using. Who fucking figured out how to make binoculars? How about the Sig ones that have image stabilizing now? Who figured that out? Who's what wizard, what wizard scientist? I got a pair of those 16 power Sig's, the Zulus.

• 2:10:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:10:43Joe Rogan?

  You hit that switch and turn on the image stabilization and normally if you're holding for people that don't know, if you're holding 16 power binos in your hand, your image that you're getting on the other end is all wiggly.

• 2:10:54Speaker 01

  So zoomed in.

• 2:10:55Joe Rogan?

  It's 16 times larger than what you actually see. So every micro movement is a giant jiggle in your eyesight, in your eye picture. But with those things, it's like you're watching a movie. It's like fully locked in like it's on a tripod. It's crazy.

• 2:11:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I was looking for a friend's and I'm like, and I was like, ah, look, the glass isn't as good in them. And I'm saying that to him, you know, and then because I'm looking for my my crystal clear and maybe the glass isn't as good in them, but because the image is dead still. So I'm doing this, I'm putting mine up and I'm like, it's really clear. And then I put that up and I'm like, they're not as clear. No, you have to turn the button on and then I press the button on it's like, oh, fuck. They're better. Because the image is still so you're really getting to look at.

• 2:11:40Joe Rogan?

  It's it's it's gonna be it's the future. Swarovski is now doing it with spotting scopes. So they have a handheld spotting scope that completely stabilizes the image.

• 2:11:50Speaker 03

  So no tripod now?

• 2:11:52Joe Rogan?

  No tripod. I mean, you hold like a 65 power spotting scope and you can look around like this, which is crazy.

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  Well.

• 2:12:00Joe Rogan?

  Crazy.

• 2:12:01Speaker 01

  And the reason why that's so critical to a hunter is. We look for movement, just like an animal looks for us moving too quickly, but we look for movement like an ear flick or a tail wag or something like, or they'll, sometimes they're high just if they got a fly lands on them. So you're looking for like a small little bit of movement. You can't do that if you're, if you've got movement in your optics, but with that stabilization, it's dead solid. So you can see when that ear flicks.

• 2:12:30Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:12:31Speaker 01

  Where you, where it'd be flicking before, you just didn't notice it. So that's where it's like so critical. But if you think about all this stuff, this top of the line stuff that we talked about with the bows, the camo, the binos, bow hunting, fucking still is so hard.

• 2:12:46Joe Rogan?

  Still so hard.

• 2:12:47Speaker 01

  So nuts. That's what's so beautiful about it is it's so challenging. I don't care about it. All this stuff is great.

• 2:12:54Joe Rogan?

  No matter what you do, you're gonna stink.

• 2:12:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:12:57Joe Rogan?

  And if the wind catches the back of your neck and you see that animal's head pop up, it's a wrap.

• 2:13:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:02Joe Rogan?

  They're designed to get the fuck away from any funky smells of things that eat meat.

• 2:13:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:07Joe Rogan?

  Not interested. I'm out of here. They smell us, Brian. We must stink. We must fucking smell like hot death to them.

• 2:13:13Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:13:14Joe Rogan?

  Cause when you see an elk or a deer catches a whiff of you and their head is like, oh no. What is this fucking?

• 2:13:21Speaker 01

  They don't even have to think that long about it.

• 2:13:25Joe Rogan?

  And you know, they keep making these rules to try to make bow hunting harder, like eliminating certain things like that Garmin sight. I used to love using that Garmin range finding sight and then they made it outlawed in Utah. I'm like, oh guys, come on. Like this doesn't make it any easier. It just makes it so that you're gonna wound less things and have more effective shots. But you know, when you get to that, like it used to be, there was no range finders, right? When you started out, was there any range finders at all? Nothing.

• 2:13:53Speaker 03

  There was no sights when I started out. No peep sight, no fix sight.

• 2:13:57Speaker 01

  Well, we, we shot fingers with compound.

• 2:14:00Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:14:01Speaker 01

  So you'd, I'd have a little glove, glove, three tab glove thing and you shoot that.

• 2:14:06Joe Rogan?

  What year did they invent the archery release?

• 2:14:09Speaker 01

  Well, I got one in 89 finally.

• 2:14:13Joe Rogan?

  When did they first come out? Like who, who was the first guy that invent, who's the first guy that goes, you know what? This is bullshit. I need a thing that I can.

• 2:14:22Speaker 03

  I like how Cam's like, I got one in 89. I was nine years old.

• 2:14:25Speaker 01

  Well, at least you were born.

• 2:14:27Speaker 03

  I didn't know the word elk.

• 2:14:31Speaker 01

  But you knew the word cunt. Cause they say it all the time down there.

• 2:14:35Speaker 03

  They say it when you're a baby. As soon as you're born.

• 2:14:36Speaker 01

  Hi little cunt.

• 2:14:40Joe Rogan?

  Like who was the guy that figured out the archery release? That guy's a wizard.

• 2:14:43Speaker 01

  Jim Fletcher was it, the Fletcher release was the first one I had. And it had a little rope in it. I remember you'd have to put the rope around and it'd hook on the trigger, on the clasp, and then you'd hit the trigger and release it. And I didn't get, I had to replace that rope because it'd start to wear off. So you'd have to have the right knot and then you kind of burn it to get it to hold in there. I didn't have it good enough. So I didn't do that knot right. I go to pull the bow back. The release comes off, hit myself in the face. And uh, so that-

• 2:15:12Joe Rogan?

  When I first started buying releases, they would come with a little string.

• 2:15:16Speaker 01

  Did they?

• 2:15:17Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. The first, some releases would come with a little rope. And I was like, what the fuck is this for? And it must be for guys who had kind of always done it that way and didn't want to not do it that way anymore. Because that was like a part of their thing.

• 2:15:29Speaker 01

  Maybe. Did you find a Fletcher release?

• 2:15:33Speaker 03

  1971.

• 2:15:34Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:15:34Speaker 01

  Seventy one. Oh, yeah, okay.

• 2:15:37Joe Rogan?

  Seventy one.

• 2:15:37Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 2:15:38Joe Rogan?

  Stanislavski.

• 2:15:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:40Joe Rogan?

  Still, they make awesome releases today. Look at that.

• 2:15:44Speaker 01

  That is awesome.

• 2:15:45Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:15:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:47Joe Rogan?

  Oh, so that was just like a, a thing that went around your fingers?

• 2:15:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, and it just turns to let it go.

• 2:15:52Joe Rogan?

  Like a hinge?

• 2:15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:15:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow. May revolutionize, look at that image. May revolutionize archery. Look at that. Go back to that, look at that. May revolutionize archery by contributing to unprecedented accuracy. I mean, that's essentially like a hinge.

• 2:16:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, it is.

• 2:16:08Speaker 03

  Was there a fight back on it at the time?

• 2:16:10Joe Rogan?

  Sixty six.

• 2:16:12Speaker 03

  Sixty six.

• 2:16:12Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:16:13Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:16:14Speaker 03

  Never touched a bow before, sixty four. It was like, I got some, I got an idea for you guys.

• 2:16:20Joe Rogan?

  Wow. Using the six gold bowstring release to improve their speed and accuracy. Wow. Oh, his two sons, Glenn and his two sons, use this release.

• 2:16:30Speaker 01

  I never even heard of this guy's name, Clarence.

• 2:16:33Joe Rogan?

  Look how it works too. Like you hook it with your index finger and then you pull your index finger through and it pops off. That's crazy. So when you draw it, you have it like that and then you release it, you let it go.

• 2:16:44Speaker 01

  You just let, yeah, you let it slip with your index finger.

• 2:16:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, like a hinge.

• 2:16:47Speaker 01

  And it turns, yeah.

• 2:16:48Joe Rogan?

  A lot of guys shoot a hinge that way. You know, some guys shoot a hinge by pulling down with their pinky finger.

• 2:16:53Speaker 01

  See that, see that piece of rope, yeah.

• 2:16:55Speaker 03

  Hand released from nineteen fifty.

• 2:16:57Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 2:16:59Joe Rogan?

  So there's certain release, that's crazy. Look at that thing. Look at that thing. It looks like a gun handle. That's so weird.

• 2:17:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, huh, five ninety-five.

• 2:17:12Joe Rogan?

  Five dollars a knife, cash.

• 2:17:13Speaker 03

  Some things have changed dramatically.

• 2:17:15Speaker 01

  That's shipping right now. I mean, you can't even ship for that.

• 2:17:19Joe Rogan?

  What a cool looking release. Imagine what a gangster you'd have to be to use that today.

• 2:17:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:24Joe Rogan?

  I wonder if they give.

• 2:17:25Speaker 01

  I love all this stuff, though.

• 2:17:26Joe Rogan?

  Look at that one up there, nineteen seventy-seven, a sear type release. Go up.

• 2:17:30Speaker 03

  I was looking at the guy with all the girls.

• 2:17:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's what you get.

• 2:17:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, see, that's bow hunting.

• 2:17:34Joe Rogan?

  Get all the girls. Look at this. This is the first hinge style release.

• 2:17:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:38Joe Rogan?

  So this is in the seventies.

• 2:17:39Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 2:17:40Joe Rogan?

  Look how weird that thing looks.

• 2:17:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:43Speaker 03

  Cause it was always hard to get a consistent release with fingers, right?

• 2:17:47Joe Rogan?

  Of course.

• 2:17:48Speaker 03

  Three fingers is the way.

• 2:17:49Speaker 01

  No, your fingers get cold and shit's wet.

• 2:17:52Joe Rogan?

  Totally makes sense.

• 2:17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:54Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:17:54Speaker 01

  Let's look at the other ones real quick.

• 2:17:57Speaker 03

  There was always a big fight in Australia whenever something new come in, like sights on a bow.

• 2:18:01Joe Rogan?

  Go to that image of that guy.

• 2:18:03Speaker 01

  Terry Ragsdale. Yeah, he was, he shot P S E. Yeah, he's a legend.

• 2:18:08Speaker 03

  P S E, baby.

• 2:18:09Joe Rogan?

  Look at the girls are on their knees. Oh, my God, you shoot that stick so good.

• 2:18:15Speaker 01

  See, and that's still how it is, pretty much.

• 2:18:17Speaker 03

  That happens all the time. As soon as you pull a release, they're out.

• 2:18:20Joe Rogan?

  Wait, they, they hop out of the trees and then they're there. You're amazing.

• 2:18:25Speaker 01

  He was a stud. I remember Terry and Michelle Ragsdale.

• 2:18:28Joe Rogan?

  Look at that weird looking one.

• 2:18:29Speaker 01

  Dee Wild, yeah, he was.

• 2:18:31Joe Rogan?

  The wild thing.

• 2:18:32Speaker 01

  When I first started, he was the man.

• 2:18:34Joe Rogan?

  Oh, that one has a trigger. That might be one of the first ones with a trigger. Wow. See that ones with the string?

• 2:18:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:40Joe Rogan?

  If you would buy old Carter releases, they would come, some of the releases would come with like a little string.

• 2:18:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:47Joe Rogan?

  It was weird. I was like, what is this fucking stupid string for? I never get it. I never even asked anybody.

• 2:18:51Speaker 01

  Oh, really?

• 2:18:51Joe Rogan?

  No, it just like didn't make sense.

• 2:18:53Speaker 01

  See that, I remember that. That's 2000, so that's getting newer.

• 2:18:56Joe Rogan?

  Look at the win release. That's nuts.

• 2:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:18:59Speaker 03

  There's an overdraw up there.

• 2:19:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:19:01Speaker 03

  That's cool.

• 2:19:01Speaker 01

  Overdraw, right?

• 2:19:02Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:19:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, so that's a...

• 2:19:05Joe Rogan?

  1990. Look at that funky looking one with wood. Part of living a healthier lifestyle means being extra careful of what you put into your body. AG1 Pro gets that. Their formula was carefully crafted with vitamins, probiotics, and superfoods your body needs, plus enhanced support for your workout and recovery, including creatine. In fact, AG1 Pro contains five grams of Creavitalis, high-quality, German-made creatine monohydrate, and that matters. This Creavitalis is made in Germany under tight quality control and is 99.9% pure. So you're not getting some cheap version cut with fillers. If you want a high-quality supplement made with the right stuff, AG1 Pro is a no-brainer.

• 2:19:51Joe Rogan?

  Go to drinkag1.com/joe for a limited time. Get a free immune support bundle, including a bottle of omega-3 fish oil and vitamin D, tossed in with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro, backed by a 90-day money-back guarantee. That's drinkag1.com/joe. This episode is brought to you by Quince. Putting together a good wardrobe isn't actually that hard. You just need the right pieces and that's where Quince comes in. Quince is all about creating quality, versatile clothing with premium materials, like 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters from just $60,

• 2:20:35Joe Rogan?

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• 2:21:15Joe Rogan?

  Now available in Canada and the UK too. That's Q U I N C E dot com slash Rogan. That's kind of cool looking. That does. So it gets us a thumb button? It must be, right?

• 2:21:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:21:30Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:21:33Joe Rogan?

  Wow. And see, some of them have strings.

• 2:21:35Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:21:36Joe Rogan?

  So in case people were like old school.

• 2:21:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, pretty cool.

• 2:21:39Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:21:40Speaker 01

  Archery history.

• 2:21:41Joe Rogan?

  So how would you, when you first started, how would you measure distance? Was it all just in your mind?

• 2:21:47Speaker 01

  Instinct.

• 2:21:48Joe Rogan?

  Instinct. So just like throwing a ball?

• 2:21:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. So you just have to, you know, it's just like now they have unmarked 3D tournaments where they don't have it. You just have to get out there and kind of judge. It was definitely harder back then because the bows weren't as fast. So you're, you could only be off by like a yard or two or you'd miss. Now with a faster, flatter shooting bow, you can be off, you can't be out by five yards.

• 2:22:13Joe Rogan?

  For people who don't know what we're talking about, the slower the bow is, the more it's going to drop by the time it gets to the target, the faster the bow is, the flatter it's going to shoot.

• 2:22:20Speaker 03

  You'd learn your cast on the bow too. So you never wanted to get rid of that bow. Cause you would literally learn the cast of an arrow.

• 2:22:27Speaker 01

  And that's what, what Adam's talking about is the trajectory. So we used to practice this all the time. Like you'd have a target out there at 60 yards, but halfway in between you and the target, you couldn't even see the target. So you'd put like, you could put a car. And so you're looking through the car window because you can see through the glass. And line of sight, you're going to go right through, break the windows and everything else. But you just know that at 60 yards, that arrow is going to be 10 yards above that car halfway there. So at 30 yards, arrow has to go up to come down at 60. So you could just aim right at the car. Arrow's going right over it. So we do stuff like that just for fun.

• 2:23:06Joe Rogan?

  To figure out the arc of the arrow.

• 2:23:07Speaker 01

  Right, but not even, that was like a, just an elementary example, just so people could get what I'm saying, but when we'd get in the woods, then there'd be a branch, like I said, I shot with Levi Morgan, he came out and did lift, run, shoot. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna beat this fucker. He's sixteen, seventeen time world champion. So I had all these shots where it's like, okay, this branch, is he gonna know this one shot was like, I think it was ninety some yards at a deer up on the hill, but there's this big branch halfway in between it. And I knew, it was kinda hard to tell, is your arrow gonna go over it or under it, right? It was, cuz you didn't know, that, I think it was about twenty-five yards away. I knew what

• 2:23:52Speaker 01

  my arrow was gonna do, cuz I practiced over and over and over, and I'm gonna be like, oh Levi's gonna fuck this one up for sure. I'll, I'll beat him on this target. Sure as shit. He knew exactly what his arrow was gonna do. But that's, he practices that all the time, and done it his whole life, and this and that, but just fun games like that. And it was only just to make us, cuz when you're hunting, that shit happens all the time. But where I would kinda screw myself up, is I loved the challenge of shots so much, like, and I shot between trees so often, cuz that was like, my thing. I could just like, even if it was just like, like, four inches, I'd be like, oh, I can pull through there.

• 2:24:32Speaker 01

  So when I was hunting, if I'd see a challenging shot on an animal, I'd be like, where I could've maybe taken a step to the right and got wide open, I'd be like, I can make this shot. And like, fucking, like, making my hunting shot more challenging, cuz I was just young and an idiot. Now I'd be like, I'd be stupid, I'd just go right here and shoot. But I would do that, but we'd practice that all the time because it was fun. And then you'd like, have, you'd want your, I mean, I had so much confidence in shooting. I would shoot hours and hours and hours every day. I remember one time, we're at this Hinson's, these guys who used to bow hunt with us, me and Roy were there, and there's a, a bale out there, seventy some yards, and then a piece of foam that was like a-

• 2:25:17Speaker 01

  Broadhead target used to be just a square piece of foam, like two inches, maybe, maybe three inches wide, but like by two foot by two foot. And that was your broadhead target. And that would stop an arrow with a broadhead orient, just that two or three inches of foam. Well, the foam target, the broadhead target was laying flat on the bale at 70 yards. So it was only like two inches. And we'd like have these competitions all the time. I'm like, I said, see that broadhead target on the cedar bale? Yeah. I'm going to hit that broadhead target. And I would hit it. And that, so we were the best shots ever with no rangefinders. So then Bushnell finally came up with a rangefinder and it was like a, kind of like a.

• 2:25:58Speaker 03

  I remember like a cassette.

• 2:25:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, like a, yeah, kind of longer, like an eight track tape almost, like sort of size. And then it had a dial on it and the images, it'd be off. And then if you lined up the image like this, that would be, you look at the, then you'd look at it, wherever that image lined up, that'd be the yardage. So then you'd be like, okay, that's, it's close to 50 yards. Then you'd know to shoot for 50. But it wasn't very accurate. It was close.

• 2:26:26Joe Rogan?

  And did you have a sight tape?

• 2:26:28Speaker 01

  You had pins.

• 2:26:30Joe Rogan?

  You had pins?

• 2:26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, the, the sights didn't move at that time.

• 2:26:32Joe Rogan?

  So your pins would be set up at like 20, 30, 40, 50, something like that?

• 2:26:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. And they just had like, we called them T dots. So it was like a little plastic, sort of like fiber, but it's like red plastic that would sort of like have light on it. Like a little, just a little.

• 2:26:49Speaker 03

  No fiber optics or anything?

• 2:26:51Speaker 01

  No, it wasn't fiber, but it'd light up a little because it's red plastic.

• 2:26:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. I heard, uh, people talking about this the other day. They were talking about, uh, Josh Jones and, uh, the, Josh and Tim's fireside chat.

• 2:27:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:04Joe Rogan?

  It's a great podcast.

• 2:27:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:05Joe Rogan?

  They were talking about how a sight that you buy today for like 25 bucks is so superior to anything that existed in like 1990.

• 2:27:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:27:15Joe Rogan?

  Like.

• 2:27:15Speaker 03

  But it still made it.

• 2:27:17Joe Rogan?

  It's fiber optics.

• 2:27:18Speaker 03

  Joyable, it still made it a lot more successful. You know, it's like, it was still a big advance at that time.

• 2:27:23Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:27:23Speaker 03

  But to think about where it is now.

• 2:27:26Joe Rogan?

  Well, the Garmin site, like. Like I was telling you about that that I it had a few flaws. One I had one that worked perfectly and then I had a second one. You know, when you get you one of the things you said, when you get a new bow, you don't want to put old shit on the new bow. You want to put new shit on the new bow.

• 2:27:39Speaker 01

  I like new stuff.

• 2:27:40Joe Rogan?

  I did that too, but unfortunately, my first Garmin sight worked perfectly. My second one didn't work so good. Like, there would be times where it worked perfectly and then times where I couldn't get a range. I'd press it, it wouldn't go. I'm at a full draw, press it, won't go, press it, won't go, press it, finally. But when it does work, you get this like a red dot. You get a clear screen and on that screen is a red dot, no pins, no wires, no nothing and. Oh, I love it. When it worked perfect, because then. Say if you hit an elk at 50 yards and then he he stands out at 80 and he's still standing broadside. You don't have to re-range. You just press a button on your on your grip and it instantly gives you a new range.

• 2:28:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think I I we talked about this before and I think I mentioned that. The goal is to try to protect the integrity of archery, like keeping it primitive. So it's like, where's that line?

• 2:28:31Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:28:32Speaker 01

  In Utah, in Utah, they decided that that that Garmin sight was past the line of primitive. You know, so we want to we want to honor archery and the history of archery. And yes, there's been advancements, but it's always it's a it's a moving target on where the line is to keep it primitive.

• 2:28:49Joe Rogan?

  I get it, but if you've ever I don't think I think it's ignorant. Because I think if you use one of those things, you realize like all it's doing is taking a step away. It's still the same exact thing. You're range finding either way and then you're dialing to 50 yards. And whatever, you know, you have to do to execute the shot then. But this way, you're a full draw and the range finding is a part of that. It's just smarter. If it worked perfectly, it's smarter and I think they're gonna get better and I'm sure the software is better. I haven't used it in two years. But when it worked, it was amazing. It was like, this is really what you want. What you want is to absolutely know the exact distance so you can make an ethical shot.

• 2:29:32Joe Rogan?

  So if you range at 50 and then he takes a few steps and then you're guessing because you can't re-range. Look, we already have a less than 10% success rate anyway. It's not like everyone who gets a tag is gonna get an elk. It's a small number of people that are really successful all the time. But that would keep you from wounding, and that should be our goal always. I don't think it's, I don't think it's any easier. It's just more effective.

• 2:29:57Speaker 03

  I think there's more room for error in it though, isn't there? Because like my binoculars are the rangefinders, so I can definitely get the dot 100% on the animal.

• 2:30:06Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:30:07Speaker 03

  Whereas I think with those sights, it's a little bit more difficult to definitely be ranging that animal and not a branch five yards behind it or five.

• 2:30:16Joe Rogan?

  Not when you're at full draw. No, they're really good. So when you're at full draw, when, when it worked at full draw, you're steady, like your pin, right? So you, you have a target and the target is like this little red thing. And when you put it on there and then you press the button, then it gives you your pin. Like.

• 2:30:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, but what if you're not on it? What if you're like, because you said it would eliminate wounding, which it wouldn't.

• 2:30:39Joe Rogan?

  No, no, I didn't say to eliminate wounding. If, if I did, I misspoke. What I meant was you're gonna get less of that because you're gonna have more effective, exact ranges.

• 2:30:47Speaker 01

  Right, but you said like if you needed a follow-up shot, that's where people, we know adrenaline goes crazy is for sure after the first shot. So if they're wound up and they're shooting too quickly because that sight allows it, would that, could that be a negative?

• 2:31:03Joe Rogan?

  But it's a follow-up shot. And why are you shooting too quickly? That's a mind management thing. You know, you should figure out how to manage your mind and calm yourself down and, and make that shot. You wouldn't freak out on a second shot if you had that. Right, that's what I'm saying. And if you had that and you 100% could count on it the same way you count on your rangefinder, that would be the best thing for everybody. Best thing for the animal, best thing for you, best thing for everybody. It's just a more, and it's a way better sight picture. The sight picture is amazing. It's a red dot. It's just like a red dot on a pistol. You know, like a red dot on a pistol, it's what it looks like. That dot is just sitting there and you're not, you just can put it right on the vitals. It's a beautiful feeling when you watch through that range, through that range finding sight and you, you put that pin on and then the arrow releases, then you.

• 2:31:48Joe Rogan?

  Watch that arrow soar and boink right in there. Ooh.

• 2:31:52Speaker 03

  That's good hunting.

• 2:31:53Joe Rogan?

  Ooh, it's nice.

• 2:31:55Speaker 01

  I don't doubt that. You know, it's like, I'm just devil's advocate, but.

• 2:31:58Joe Rogan?

  I get it. Look, I'm a fan of like a company that does something like that. I'm a fan of Garmin. I mean, I've got a Garmin watch on right now.

• 2:32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:04Joe Rogan?

  I'm a fan of Garmin, period. They make awesome shit. They make awesome range finding, I mean, awesome GPS equipment. They make awesome watches. They they make great shit. They make great the the chest straps, the the workout things.

• 2:32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:32:17Joe Rogan?

  They make awesome stuff. So I'm just happy that someone put the research and development and the money that must have taken to put together a fucking range finding binocular, range finding sight rather that actually works.

• 2:32:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree. I mean.

• 2:32:32Joe Rogan?

  I just want a better one.

• 2:32:33Speaker 01

  I would.

• 2:32:33Joe Rogan?

  I want it perfect.

• 2:32:34Speaker 03

  That'll get there.

• 2:32:35Joe Rogan?

  I want it like my, like, I have that, one of the things that I fucking love. I have a loophole, full draw five. That's my favorite range finder of all time because it gives you the arc of the arrow at its peak. That is so huge.

• 2:32:46Speaker 03

  That's cool.

• 2:32:47Joe Rogan?

  And I used it to kill a bull once because, and when I had that Garmin sight, in fact, because I had the Garmin sight. And I ranged this elk and it was at 50 yards, but there was a hole only like this where I could shoot through. And I was like, oh, I don't know. So then I pull out the the loophole and I hit the button and I see the exact arc of the arrow. Where it's going to be at its height and its height was six inches below those branches. I'm like, we're good.

• 2:33:14Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:14Joe Rogan?

  We're good. So just keep the pin on them and was perfect. See that thing? Ah, fucking love that thing.

• 2:33:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:20Joe Rogan?

  That thing's so huge. So you know exactly where, right there is a little sketch, right? Because that could hit it on the way in, right? So that's the height of your arrow, but that doesn't mean where where's that tree?

• 2:33:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:30Joe Rogan?

  Like that tree might be 20 yards ahead of you. You might smack right into that fucking thing. So you have to take that into consideration, but having that extra indication of the height, the high point of the arrow, huge.

• 2:33:41Speaker 01

  See on this.

• 2:33:42Joe Rogan?

  Huge.

• 2:33:42Speaker 01

  You just take a step to the left.

• 2:33:44Joe Rogan?

  Exactly.

• 2:33:45Speaker 01

  Then you, or if you were me when I was younger, you'd just shoot.

• 2:33:48Speaker 03

  Shoot straight.

• 2:33:49Joe Rogan?

  Or would you get on your knees?

• 2:33:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, get on your knees.

• 2:33:52Joe Rogan?

  Get on your knees and execute the shot. But it's like having that knowledge, what it's going to keep is that arrow whack in that branch and then sticking in his ass and wounding him. You know, whereas you you might have made a perfect release, but because of that high, a high point of the arrow indication, now you know. And you can make a more educated decision. And it's all about making the ethical shot. And so for me. Anything that allows you, it's still gonna be really fucking hard to do. It's always hard.

• 2:34:19Speaker 01

  Here's, here, okay, so I'll just do a list real quick. The biggest help in bow hunting has been the laser rangefinder. That, that changed the game, definitely. Um, now, that was back in the day.

• 2:34:33Joe Rogan?

  And sight tapes.

• 2:34:35Speaker 01

  Now, well, some people, yeah, some, some people don't do well with sight tapes in the heat of the moment, as far as dialing the sight.

• 2:34:42Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:34:42Speaker 01

  But it can make, it's made me more accurate at longer range, for sure to be able to dial the sight and hold right on.

• 2:34:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:48Speaker 01

  Right now, the, so the, a, a positive has been Onex or the mapping system, as far as for hunting the mountains, that has helped so many people and so much confidence.

• 2:34:58Joe Rogan?

  Huge.

• 2:34:58Speaker 01

  Um, that's a giant one. It's like, that's one reason why the backcountry definitely has more people in it, because more people are confident. It used to be like you used to have to read a 7.5 minute, uh, per angle, uh, topo map. You don't have to do that shit anymore. So now, and you don't have to figure out where your car is anymore. You put the, you mark your car, you're good to go. That's been huge. There's a huge negative, not too many people are talking about, and it's, um, it's, uh, using optics with, uh, they pick up heat signature.

• 2:35:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:35:31Speaker 01

  What are those called?

• 2:35:32Joe Rogan?

  Thermals.

• 2:35:33Speaker 01

  Thermals. Yeah, those, dude, it's not good for hunting. You don't, so glassing is an art. We've talked about glass and having good glass movement. Glassing is an art. These thermal optics, you don't have to be good at anything.

• 2:35:48Joe Rogan?

  You're like the predator.

• 2:35:49Speaker 01

  You put them up, and it tells you where the animal is. So, I've never even used one, but I've talked to guys who have used them, and I, and I know that it's not great, because what would take hours to glass, and you probably would miss, you know, a bedded mule deer buck, five minutes, you know where every animal is on that hill.

• 2:36:06Joe Rogan?

  That's a good argument. There's a good argument that that's too far.

• 2:36:09Speaker 01

  That is, that is way too far.

• 2:36:11Joe Rogan?

  And is that legal in most states?

• 2:36:13Speaker 01

  It hasn't even hardly been covered. It's kind of a new technology that they don't even address, really. But I'm saying it needs-

• 2:36:20Joe Rogan?

  California's outlawed it.

• 2:36:21Speaker 01

  I hope so, because it needs to be outlawed everywhere. It's it's so many big animals are getting killed that shouldn't be getting killed right now by guys using thermals. And is it a loophole or are they doing it when they shouldn't be doing it in some states? Or is it because to catch people is tough, you know, hunting is about honor. Honor and respect is what we talk about. We police ourselves. We do it right, you know, I mean, yeah, there's people who get busted for doing shit, but most people are just out there policing ourselves.

• 2:36:49Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's because they want that same respect. Yeah, we talked about it, yeah. What's Halliday's first name again?

• 2:36:56Speaker 01

  Cal Halliday.

• 2:36:57Joe Rogan?

  Cal Halliday?

• 2:36:57Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:36:58Joe Rogan?

  When you talk about that guy, they want you to talk about every man wants you to talk about that him.

• 2:37:04Speaker 01

  Like that.

• 2:37:04Joe Rogan?

  When he's not around like that and they're not going to if you're cutting corners and you're using some shit you're not supposed to use.

• 2:37:09Speaker 01

  Or.

• 2:37:10Joe Rogan?

  What is that? What is the law on that, though? Because like every state has different laws, right? Like Nevada, you're allowed to use walkie talkies and at least you used to be able to. Where you can tell people, hey, he's right above you.

• 2:37:20Speaker 03

  It's a little bit probably like the e-bike thing where it's so fresh that they haven't come up with you can or you can't right now. It's a bicycle. No, it's not. It's a motorcycle. It's optics. No, it's not. It's thermals.

• 2:37:32Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 2:37:33Joe Rogan?

  Well, let's see what the laws are. Put that into perplexity. What are the laws? What states allow thermal binoculars for hunting? Thermal scopes are not universally allowed for hunting. Yeah, but not thermal scopes, thermal binoculars.

• 2:37:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37:50Joe Rogan?

  Does it say thermal?

• 2:37:51Speaker 01

  It says thermal optics down below, right there, and Europe owning thermal optics is often.

• 2:37:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but what about in America? What in America, what states allow thermal binoculars for hunting? Put that in there. Not scopes, that's the problem. It's the word scope is for a rifle scope, binoculars.

• 2:38:12Joe Rogan?

  Let's see.

• 2:38:15Joe Rogan?

  How crazy is this AI where it just does this and immediately gives you the answer? Thermal imaging devices, including binoculars and monoculars, are legal to own in the United States. And many states allow them in some hunting contexts, especially predators or nuisance species like hogs or coyotes. However, several states either completely ban thermal for any hunting or ban profession possession, rather, use of thermal devices while taking or locating wildlife. So examples of state rules, some states explicitly allow thermal optics for night hunting. For example, Texas, Georgia, Florida, Alabama, Missouri, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Authorize thermal devices for specific predator or invasive species hunts in their 2025 regulations.

• 2:38:55Joe Rogan?

  Other states such as Alaska, Arizona, California, Colorado, Hawaii, Nevada, New Mexico, Oregon, Tennessee, prohibit thermal optics for hunting wildlife altogether or for most game species. Yeah, so a lot of states. So it seems like a few states are on the ball with this.

• 2:39:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, it's it's a big deal because those those animals to to get to trophy status for these animals are old. You know, they've survived. They know what it takes. They've they've done it. They've they've outwitted hunters for years. And now, in their best bed where a man would never be able to find them by glassing, those.

• 2:39:32Joe Rogan?

  They're behind a tree, but a knee is showing out from the tree. It's like, oh, there's.

• 2:39:35Speaker 01

  It's not. It's not hunting. It's not right. It's not use. It's not the art of glassing, which is what, you know, how we've developed these skills. It's using technology.

• 2:39:45Joe Rogan?

  That makes sense. It makes sense because it's like you're you're saying there is a line.

• 2:39:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39:49Joe Rogan?

  You know, and that you you are actively campaigning for something that's going to make your job easier to go away.

• 2:39:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wanted to. I wanted to keep keep the challenge there.

• 2:39:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's also what he said when you, like you said, in the town you grew up, if you killed a big buck, like people respected you. Why? Because that's really hard to do.

• 2:40:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:40:07Joe Rogan?

  Those big old bucks are fucking smart and they are tuned in, man. They hear branch snap and it's like, fuck this.

• 2:40:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, they're that big for a reason.

• 2:40:15Joe Rogan?

  They're that big for a reason. Yeah.

• 2:40:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a and I would I know in in Utah, I was going down this creek this year. And I saw like there's some there's some cedar trees, like a kind of a patch of them there, but a. Basically, there's a tunnel in there and then a deer bed. And like, you couldn't see it from anywhere. And I was thinking, man, if a buck was bedded there, you'd have no idea.

• 2:40:38Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:40:38Speaker 01

  Right? And, but you would now if you had the thermal optics. And that's like, that was a perfect example of a buck that found that bed. That's where he's safe and that's how he survived. Now that that.

• 2:40:49Speaker 03

  Taken that away.

• 2:40:49Speaker 01

  Taken that away.

• 2:40:50Speaker 03

  Yeah. There's probably trad guys listening to this podcast though.

• 2:40:53Speaker 01

  I know, right?

• 2:40:54Speaker 03

  Fuck off, you dickheads.

• 2:40:56Joe Rogan?

  Trad, for people that don't know what that means, trad guys are guys who hunt with a regular, old school bow and arrow, like a recurve bow.

• 2:41:02Speaker 03

  Which is cool, it's a good challenge.

• 2:41:04Joe Rogan?

  They're just guessing where that arrow's gonna go. You know?

• 2:41:08Speaker 01

  Well.

• 2:41:09Speaker 03

  Hopefully they practice.

• 2:41:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah, they practice, but there is a lot of guessing. You're guessing the yardage, you're guessing where your arrow's gonna hit, you know? I mean, some of those guys that trad bow hunt, do they use, um, rangefinders?

• 2:41:21Speaker 03

  No.

• 2:41:21Joe Rogan?

  None of them. So all of them are just guessing.

• 2:41:23Speaker 01

  It's instinct.

• 2:41:24Speaker 03

  Yeah. I try and do a couple of trad bow hunts a year.

• 2:41:27Joe Rogan?

  Cause it's like when you throw a rock, is that guessing? No, it's instinct.

• 2:41:30Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:41:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:31Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's just like to get good at pitching a baseball.

• 2:41:33Joe Rogan?

  Right.

• 2:41:34Speaker 01

  You know, I mean, it's the same, some people are really good.

• 2:41:36Joe Rogan?

  Except the pitcher's mound and the batter's box, the same distance every time.

• 2:41:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's true.

• 2:41:42Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's the difference.

• 2:41:43Speaker 03

  Well, if you're disciplined, you would know that it's under 20 yards every time and that's all you'd take.

• 2:41:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, but there's a lot of guys that can take a poke with a recurve bow.

• 2:41:52Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:41:52Joe Rogan?

  You know? They're pretty accurate with it, like they have some different ways of measuring, like where the tip of it is. At 40 yards, they know that that's when it's gonna hit dead on.

• 2:42:01Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:42:01Joe Rogan?

  They look down the arrow instead of like we do through a peephole, they're looking down the shaft of the arrow. They look all squirrely and shit like this.

• 2:42:10Speaker 01

  Some people, yeah.

• 2:42:10Joe Rogan?

  They look so squirrely.

• 2:42:11Speaker 01

  They put it on their eye or they put it here and they use the point of the arrow, as you said. But yeah, it's like, most people though, like you talk about discipline, like I'm gonna shoot if it's 20 yards or less, that's the only time I'm gonna shoot. Unless it's huge.

• 2:42:25Speaker 03

  It's seventy, have a crack.

• 2:42:29Speaker 01

  I had.

• 2:42:29Joe Rogan?

  Once in a lifetime.

• 2:42:30Speaker 01

  It was the biggest thing a bull I've ever seen. I had to shoot.

• 2:42:33Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes you think, you see things and you're like, how do I get to that? Yeah. How do I find him, even if it's far away?

• 2:42:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:42:40Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:42:40Speaker 01

  Normally, like, you see stuff, here's would be the technology that would really hurt. Because you see something a mile away and you know that animal's there. If I could just get to that tree line, if you could just be there.

• 2:42:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. Well, that's where those long range rifle guys, that's a whole different argument, right?

• 2:42:58Speaker 01

  Oh, fuck, I hate that too.

• 2:42:59Joe Rogan?

  There's some of those guys, they'll take a poke seven, nine hundred yards. You know, and they're real accurate with it.

• 2:43:05Speaker 01

  These guys are so good, like, they're shooting, yeah, and that's, that's a whole nother thing.

• 2:43:10Joe Rogan?

  They're taking into account the wind across the canyon and...

• 2:43:14Speaker 01

  I saw this guy, I'm pretty sure the other Tanner was showing me this, because, you know, so much wasted time shit on Instagram. But this was kind of cool. He was shooting so far and he's so good, so he's prone, down, had his long range, all his shit, all, everything they do, it's, that's a whole art. But anyway, he shot, and I think he was, if I remember right, he shot and it was so far, he put another shell in, got another bullet on the way. They both hit steel.

• 2:43:43Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:43:44Speaker 01

  They both hit steel.

• 2:43:45Speaker 03

  At least it was steel and not like some beagle and shea.

• 2:43:48Joe Rogan?

  So he racked another round in, in the time it took for the bullet to get there?

• 2:43:52Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:43:52Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:43:53Speaker 01

  And sent the other one on the way, and so it was like a dong dong.

• 2:43:56Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:43:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43:58Joe Rogan?

  That's crazy.

• 2:43:59Speaker 01

  This guy's a machine, though. I wish I could remember the fucking page. But guy's a machine, because you can see he's down in his gun. Just like fucking in and still on that scope, didn't even move, boom.

• 2:44:12Joe Rogan?

  That's a whole nother art form, you know, that's a whole nother keeping your shit together.

• 2:44:16Speaker 01

  I should ask Tanner.

• 2:44:16Joe Rogan?

  Crazy long range shooting. I know a lot of guys that get into, my friend Justin got really into that. Once you get into long range shooting, you start just fucking craving it. They just want to like hit that steel at fifteen hundred yards. It's nuts. Some of these guys, they shoot insane. Like, what is the record for the longest shot ever taken in a competition? Like, those long range competitions? What do you think it is?

• 2:44:42Speaker 01

  Uh, I mean, it's 2,000 yards for sure.

• 2:44:45Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:44:46Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44:47Joe Rogan?

  That's so crazy.

• 2:44:48Speaker 01

  I would think that people are shooting at 2,000.

• 2:44:50Speaker 03

  I'll have a crack.

• 2:44:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:44:52Speaker 03

  2.4 miles.

• 2:44:54Speaker 01

  Really? Wow. Wait.

• 2:44:56Joe Rogan?

  Really?

• 2:44:56Speaker 01

  Did I say yard? What did I mean? Did I mean yards? Yeah, I meant yards.

• 2:45:00Speaker 03

  He almost nailed it.

• 2:45:01Speaker 01

  What is it?

• 2:45:02Speaker 03

  T. Actually, yeah. 2.4 miles.

• 2:45:04Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, baby.

• 2:45:05Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 2:45:06Joe Rogan?

  How'd you guess? You motherfucker.

• 2:45:07Speaker 01

  You knew. You looked that up somehow.

• 2:45:09Joe Rogan?

  How could he? He lives in Australia. They're not allowed to know this information.

• 2:45:12Speaker 01

  I don't even know what miles is.

• 2:45:13Joe Rogan?

  If you even search this online, the police show up at your door.

• 2:45:17Speaker 01

  Holy smokes.

• 2:45:18Joe Rogan?

  4,224 yard shot. At the Clark, this guy was Robert Brantley. At the Clark's Knob ELR match in Kansas, described as a new world record in long range shooting. Achieved under match conditions. That's incredible. That is so crazy.

• 2:45:37Speaker 03

  Non-competition, almost double.

• 2:45:39Speaker 01

  Look at that.

• 2:45:39Joe Rogan?

  Oh, my God. In 2022 in Wyoming, a team recorded a 4.4 mile, 7,744 yard hit on steel. After dozens of tries.

• 2:45:52Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 2:45:53Joe Rogan?

  Wow. But not a standard scored competition stage. Wow.

• 2:45:57Speaker 01

  The problem is, guys see that, like, 4.4 miles, they're like, oh, I could shoot it 1,000 yards then.

• 2:46:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, look at that thing he's carrying.

• 2:46:05Speaker 01

  They never fucking practice.

• 2:46:06Speaker 03

  Good lord.

• 2:46:07Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, these guys, I mean, the amount of no moving you have to have.

• 2:46:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, dude.

• 2:46:13Joe Rogan?

  It's crazy.

• 2:46:14Speaker 01

  But, yeah, the guy out there with their Buy Mart 3006, do they, you guys, you guys have Buy Mart's here? Ever heard of Buy Mart?

• 2:46:20Joe Rogan?

  What's a Buy Mart?

• 2:46:21Speaker 01

  It's a store.

• 2:46:22Joe Rogan?

  Oh, no.

• 2:46:23Speaker 01

  Like a sporting goods store, buy, or it's not a sporting goods, but anyway, like, they got their, you know, $250 rifle from Buy Mart, 3006, and they're like, they see that and they're like, oh, shit, then I could shoot it 600 yards? They shoot it 4.4 miles. That's the problem.

• 2:46:39Joe Rogan?

  That is part of the problem.

• 2:46:41Speaker 01

  But people say that about me, too, is like, oh, people will say, I always talk about shooting animals at 100 yards, which I have never one time. But, yeah, I practice a long range, but they try to lump me in like I'm, I'm ruining and promoting long range shooting.

• 2:46:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, no, you're just amplifying if you're off at all, you know, or it's good practice.

• 2:46:59Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, it's great. I, what I always said is-

• 2:47:03Joe Rogan?

  Four point four miles. Whoa, look at that thing.

• 2:47:05Speaker 01

  Fuckers are heavy too.

• 2:47:06Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah. Look at it. I mean, it looks like a.

• 2:47:09Speaker 03

  It's a longbow. It just needs a string on it.

• 2:47:11Joe Rogan?

  Like a barbell.

• 2:47:12Speaker 01

  It's probably, I mean, I bet it's thirty, forty pounds. I don't know. Does it say the weight on those things?

• 2:47:18Joe Rogan?

  God, look at the size of that gun. Look at the barrel on that thing. That's nuts.

• 2:47:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:24Joe Rogan?

  First confirmed and verified world record.

• 2:47:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:47:28Joe Rogan?

  Wow. This isn't the actual one. This is twenty eighteen. That shot was taken in twenty twenty two. Oh, so is a, does a world record before the world record?

• 2:47:35Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 2:47:35Joe Rogan?

  Wow.

• 2:47:36Speaker 03

  Yeah, I'd get AIDS if I touched a gun.

• 2:47:38Speaker 01

  I know those guns are heavy.

• 2:47:40Joe Rogan?

  That's what the government tells you?

• 2:47:42Speaker 03

  The crying government.

• 2:47:43Joe Rogan?

  You don't want to touch a gun. You might get AIDS.

• 2:47:46Speaker 03

  That's exactly what we say.

• 2:47:48Speaker 01

  It's only if you stick it up your ass, I guess.

• 2:47:50Joe Rogan?

  No, you gotta stick it up your ass after somebody stuck it up their ass.

• 2:47:53Speaker 01

  Oh, right.

• 2:47:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, you gotta get a second. It's like dirty needles.

• 2:47:56Speaker 01

  I hate when that happens.

• 2:48:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's a, but yeah.

• 2:48:01Joe Rogan?

  That's another thing. It's like, you know, like the bow hunters look at rifle hunters like, oh, that's kind of easy. Traditional hunters look at compound hunters like, oh, that's easy. And then there's guys out there, I use a fucking spear, you know?

• 2:48:13Speaker 03

  Ah, each to their own too.

• 2:48:15Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, for sure. As long as you're ethical, as long as you could do it. I mean, I'm sure there's probably some guy out there that knows how to hit a target with an addle, you know?

• 2:48:23Speaker 01

  Probably. I mean, I, if I'm using a spear, I don't do anything past three yards. That's like.

• 2:48:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:48:33Speaker 03

  I spear'd a buffalo about eleven or twelve years ago. It's pretty cool.

• 2:48:36Joe Rogan?

  Who, and did you really? Oh, God. Probably edit that out. We were trying to figure, I'm just kidding, I'm just kidding. We were trying to figure out, uh, the other day, like when the actual bow and arrow was invented. And it's kind of difficult to track down, but it's, the weird thing is, it seems to have been invented, or at least seems to exist simultaneously at many spots all over the world at the same time, which is really interesting.

• 2:49:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49:05Joe Rogan?

  It it makes you think like, I wonder, we we really don't know how much people were traveling back then. We really don't.

• 2:49:12Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:49:13Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of guessing and they keep pushing back maritime travel. They keep pushing back like the age of wit when the first, maybe even primitive humans were using some sort of a raft to get across lakes and rivers and and maybe even oceans. But, you know, sharing that information, like, who is the wizard that looked at a stick? And goes, if I could just put one of these fucking things on the end of that stick.

• 2:49:38Speaker 01

  Oh, cool.

• 2:49:38Joe Rogan?

  And pull, that's a good one.

• 2:49:39Speaker 01

  Hey, why do you have that?

• 2:49:40Joe Rogan?

  Huh? I always have that. It's always sitting right here.

• 2:49:42Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:49:43Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:43Speaker 01

  I thought you had in your pocket.

• 2:49:44Joe Rogan?

  I did. Cause I put it in my pocket sometimes.

• 2:49:46Speaker 03

  I'm fiddling with it.

• 2:49:47Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I play with that thing. That's a real one. That's from here.

• 2:49:50Speaker 01

  Hmm. Whoa, that's a fucking good one.

• 2:49:53Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:53Speaker 03

  I found one in New Mexico.

• 2:49:55Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's a good one, right? Remy said that one was probably used for fish. He said, cause it's so big.

• 2:49:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:50:00Joe Rogan?

  That was his guess.

• 2:50:01Speaker 03

  Huh.

• 2:50:02Joe Rogan?

  But maybe, it might have been used for bison.

• 2:50:03Speaker 03

  Sort of, Bob.

• 2:50:04Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, it's not, I mean, it would cut some, I mean, it's sort of sharp.

• 2:50:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, I mean, as sharp as you can get it.

• 2:50:12Speaker 01

  Huh, that's cool, though.

• 2:50:13Joe Rogan?

  It's not like modern broadheads. Modern broadheads that you can shave your arm with, you know?

• 2:50:18Speaker 03

  They cut your eyes when you look at them too hard.

• 2:50:20Joe Rogan?

  Bro, yeah, but that's what you want, you know, it's, that's the other thing, like, is that too, is that too good? Is that too easy?

• 2:50:26Speaker 01

  It's too sharp.

• 2:50:27Joe Rogan?

  Maybe we should go back to Flint.

• 2:50:28Speaker 01

  Go back.

• 2:50:29Joe Rogan?

  Maybe we should make your own arrowheads, pussy.

• 2:50:31Speaker 01

  No, I'm, it was, uh.

• 2:50:33Speaker 03

  I like eating.

• 2:50:35Speaker 01

  There is a guy that, uh, I, oh, who went to high school with, but he's, he would say his dad would, um, like, shoot his arrows down the road to make him, he would like wanna make the do, broadhead dollar, so it'd go in and rip a bigger hole.

• 2:50:52Joe Rogan?

  What?

• 2:50:53Speaker 01

  So it's like.

• 2:50:54Joe Rogan?

  That's how he thought?

• 2:50:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:50:55Joe Rogan?

  Oh, boy.

• 2:50:56Speaker 01

  Anyway, people come up with some crazy shit.

• 2:50:59Joe Rogan?

  Well, if they don't know, that's the, one of the things that's cool about when I got into bow hunting and especially learning it from you. I already knew so much just from talking to you. You, you had so much information. I didn't have to like figure it out. Nearly as much.

• 2:51:12Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:51:12Joe Rogan?

  I just had to listen, you know? Like so many people have already figured out metal broadheads. So like we were having a conversation about lighted knocks this weekend. And I'm like, damn it. I think I'm gonna stop using lighted knocks.

• 2:51:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, sorry.

• 2:51:24Joe Rogan?

  The weight and no, I think you got a really good point. Like that additional 10 grains at the end can't be good for accuracy. It just can't be.

• 2:51:31Speaker 03

  I think you've got to pick the situation though. And it's a little bit, you know, like if I'm going to the Arctic and there's no sunlight and I want to see where the arrow hits. Okay, a lighted knock's gonna override the little bit of inconsistency.

• 2:51:44Joe Rogan?

  Because it's a dull environment. It's hard to see. It's almost like you're dusk all day long.

• 2:51:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I think like hunting pigs in their beds, you know, you're under the trees. It's dark. It might come into play a little bit more there. But if it's not required, then yeah, why, why interrupt even a little bit of accuracy? Because you get to a certain point in bow hunting where we're talking about the arrow shafts, the, the better the match grade of arrow shafts you can use, you don't notice that to start with because you're just shooting, you know, and you're not super consistent, you're not super accurate. And then all those little things end up bringing a group from that to that. And there's the difference. And you'll notice that at this point in your archery.

• 2:52:25Joe Rogan?

  Hmm. Yeah, makes sense. It totally makes sense. But it's just, again, thank God somebody figured all this stuff out. It's like, if you had to come along and do it all by yourself, like, oh.

• 2:52:35Speaker 03

  It was a hard learning curve. Like in Australia, that like we didn't have the, the sort of figures and probably knowledge that you guys did because it's like it's part of your pastime, right? I was talking to Evan about this. It's like part of the American pastime, a bow hunter. Whereas in Australia, it's not, you know, and it's not, there's not all the information out there. And it seemed like Australia was probably about 10 years behind the US on sites, release aids, the knowledge behind it.

• 2:53:06Speaker 03

  And yeah, I, I, I think the fact that you guys have, like, we were talking about Fred Bear, you know, like paving the way for bow hunting in America. And, you know, Australia's had its, its idols as well and people that have paved the way, but a lot slower than here.

• 2:53:27Speaker 03

  To have all the knowledge for you to have someone like Cam is absolutely brilliant because you are, you've probably made those mistakes yourself or learned them yourself. And then so you go straight to Joe and be like, this is a good setup. This works, this doesn't. And then in Australia, the first things I was sold were target sites for bow hunting, you know, and it's just like, and we didn't know any better. So as well as wasting time, you wasted a lot of money, you wasted a lot of effort, you wasted a lot of heartache, you know, on, on finding your way in bow hunting.

• 2:53:57Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And there's still guys right now that shoot instinctual with a compound.

• 2:54:01Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's, it's, uh, the internet has definitely helped like educate people, you know, we used to have to learn it all on our own, which is like, I think to Adam's point where it's nice when you have a, a resource or a mentor. A lot of the times we didn't have that. We had magazines, we didn't have internet, so we just have to figure it out. But when we talk about like the lighted knocks, specifically, you mentioned the weight, the weight is one part, but it's also the inconsistency of having those electronics back there on the back of the arrow. And you just can't get as good as a knock or, so that's the connection point from the arrow to the string. It's just not going to be as good with electronics in there with, it's trying to serve a different

• 2:54:43Speaker 01

  purpose of lighting up that knock where to, in my opinion, that's going to help me maybe decide on when to go after the animal, knowing where I hit it, but it's not going to make me any more lethal. It's going to make me less lethal. I want the most accurate arrow possible and where that goes, whether I see it or not, doesn't really matter. I'm gonna have to get on that blood trail and recover that animal regardless. So just knowing where the arrow hit isn't making it any more deadly or not. You know, it's just how that might impact how I react to that shot. But I want the most accurate. That's why I shoot those, you know, the X10s, fifty dollars an arrow.

• 2:55:25Speaker 01

  Because it's the straightest, most accurate arrows, what they've used in the Olympics since 1996. So you can use other arrows, they're not as straight, not as good. You can put lighted knocks on, you're giving up accuracy, you can do it if you want. And you can say it's gonna help in these other arenas, it's not gonna help with accuracy. So all I care about is that arrow going where I want it to go. That's how I look at things.

• 2:55:50Joe Rogan?

  It's the most important.

• 2:55:51Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:55:51Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it makes sense. It makes sense. And the amount of times where the lighted knock would help you is dwarfed in comparison to the amount of times where accuracy is critical.

• 2:56:02Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:56:03Joe Rogan?

  Right, accuracy is always critical.

• 2:56:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:56:05Joe Rogan?

  And it's only a small amount of times where that lighted knock is really gonna come into play where it really helps you.

• 2:56:09Speaker 01

  That's what I, I mean, it's cool and it's nice and it looks, I've never used one, so I mean.

• 2:56:15Speaker 03

  It looks pretty cool.

• 2:56:17Speaker 01

  I have, I guess I have a few times, but I just was like, just thinking about it like, no, I, it's not helping me.

• 2:56:26Joe Rogan?

  I always think about it when I take the, the regular knocks off and put the light ones on, like the regular knocks are solid.

• 2:56:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:56:31Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. And the lighted ones, there's a hole in the center of it where you've got electronics and a light bulb and a battery.

• 2:56:37Speaker 01

  I know.

• 2:56:38Joe Rogan?

  Like, there's a bunch of shit in there. That, that's gotta, it has to have some sort of an effect.

• 2:56:43Speaker 01

  Right, yeah.

• 2:56:45Joe Rogan?

  Didn't Tom Aranda used to have something where he had a weight on the back of his arrow? Didn't he have something crazy, some weird setup where he had a?

• 2:56:52Speaker 03

  Not the breadcrumb, like the tracker.

• 2:56:54Joe Rogan?

  I don't remember what he had. No, it wasn't that. It was like a thing that he did to the back of his arrow, it was like, that seems counterintuitive. Where he had additional weight on the back, I don't know what I'm talking about, I can't remember.

• 2:57:05Speaker 01

  I don't know, but Tom Miranda, that's old school.

• 2:57:07Joe Rogan?

  Old school.

• 2:57:08Speaker 01

  I mean, he's still out there getting it done, but that's, I mean, that's history.

• 2:57:12Speaker 03

  It's actually what we were talking about the other day with the, the Tom Miranda.

• 2:57:16Joe Rogan?

  Oh, he's had those TV shows on forever.

• 2:57:18Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:18Joe Rogan?

  Adventure bow hunting with Tom Miranda.

• 2:57:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, I know.

• 2:57:22Joe Rogan?

  Guy went all over the fucking world.

• 2:57:23Speaker 03

  Okay, yeah, getting around the world.

• 2:57:25Joe Rogan?

  Bro, that guy went all over the world hunting, all over the world. He was one of the first guys that ever heard about using a sauna to, to help his hunting.

• 2:57:35Speaker 01

  Really?

• 2:57:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. He, he felt like, cause he was living in Florida and the guy was like, why do you want a sauna in your house here in Florida? And he's like, cause it makes you have more endurance.

• 2:57:43Speaker 03

  Yeah, for sure.

• 2:57:44Joe Rogan?

  It's better for hunting.

• 2:57:45Speaker 01

  I didn't know, that's cool.

• 2:57:46Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, that's pretty cool, like Tom Miranda.

• 2:57:48Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 2:57:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:57:49Joe Rogan?

  Old school.

• 2:57:50Speaker 03

  Okay. It's cool to introduce all that stuff in the hunting, like if you're that passionate, you know, I did the sauna. I got the ice bath at home. I did the hypoxic wellness, which is, um, I think I was telling Joe about this. Where I decked the home gym out, um, so it's basically a gym at altitude now. And that's what I was using before I got to Utah. And it actually made me be able to go from the bottom of the mountain to the top without stopping to take a breath. Which is incredible, so.

• 2:58:19Speaker 01

  So it's altitude training?

• 2:58:21Speaker 03

  It's altitude training.

• 2:58:22Speaker 01

  Is it a tent or?

• 2:58:23Speaker 03

  No, it's the whole room. So, but this, a company called Leonix now, they make, say, it could be the size of this. And it would have red light therapy in here. It would have a sauna in here. It would have the hypoxic conditioning in here. So basically pumping nitrogen in the room to drop the oxygen levels. Um, and so you could have gym equipment in here. You could sit in here and read a book. But the way that I've got it set out, I'm doing a workout in it now. And I've got a target in the corner. I literally shoot my bow in there at like fourteen thousand five hundred feet. And then to step out of that, and like I live at sea level back in Australia, to step out of that at sea level, like you feel.

• 2:59:01Speaker 01

  Oh, I bet.

• 2:59:02Speaker 03

  Absolutely incredible.

• 2:59:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, I bet.

• 2:59:04Speaker 03

  And then that's, so what was Utah? Eight thousand?

• 2:59:07Joe Rogan?

  Sometimes eight, seven something.

• 2:59:09Speaker 03

  Seven or eight thousand feet?

• 2:59:11Joe Rogan?

  Probably nine at the highest.

• 2:59:12Speaker 03

  Okay, and I'd be training at fourteen thousand. Thousand five hundred. So I I felt amazing when I went there.

• 2:59:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:59:18Speaker 03

  It was awesome.

• 2:59:19Speaker 01

  Technology.

• 2:59:20Speaker 03

  Technology.

• 2:59:21Speaker 01

  That is, that is useful because I mean, that's what athletes do. They go to train, high altitude training in the mountains. And then they come down to lower elevation where there's more, more oxygen and there's more oxygen available to push themselves harder. So their bodies used to that. It created more red blood cells essentially. I think it's like a, a natural. I think that's what EPO they say does, so it's a natural way to do that. And, uh, yeah, I mean.

• 2:59:46Joe Rogan?

  It just doesn't stay very long. Yeah, only stays in your system, like your, your system eventually acclimates to whatever the altitude is. But before it does that, you have a nice advantage. Like there's, that's why they.

• 2:59:57Speaker 01

  Time is?

• 2:59:58Joe Rogan?

  I think it's like a couple of weeks.

• 2:59:59Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:00:00Joe Rogan?

  Um, I think that's why they probably put the Olympic Training Center in Colorado Springs. You know, they want these people to train it. It totally makes sense. Yeah, it totally makes sense. Train at altitude.

• 3:00:09Speaker 03

  I found mentally, I felt a lot better too. And then, so I've now done a bit of reading up on it and it's like the plasticity of the brain improves under those conditions as well. And then.

• 3:00:21Joe Rogan?

  Makes sense. Adapt or, or die.

• 3:00:23Speaker 03

  Yeah, I just feel so happy afterwards. I was sleeping in there in the end because I was trying to fit in as much, which can be detrimental as well. Like you don't want to overdo it. But I was sleeping in there in the end. And I'd wake up in the morning and I was just like on a high for like four or five hours.

• 3:00:38Speaker 01

  Why, why would they say not to overdo it? Because when they go train at altitude, they're up there the whole time.

• 3:00:45Joe Rogan?

  Just to get acclimated, I, I bet initially.

• 3:00:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:47Joe Rogan?

  Don't overdo it initially.

• 3:00:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:00:49Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:00:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. And I also think that a part of the, you know, it'd be like overdoing your muscles if you just kept doing arms every single day, you know.

• 3:00:57Joe Rogan?

  Wait a minute, that's what he does.

• 3:01:02Speaker 03

  You can't help it, can you?

• 3:01:06Joe Rogan?

  They, that bike that you sent me is fucking awesome, by the way. Cause I, I love the, you know, the Airdyne bikes. I love those things. It's like my favorite conditioning thing and I love the Echo bike from Rogue. But I think that one's even superior to the Echo bike.

• 3:01:19Speaker 03

  Bike, how consistent the, the drag is on it as you.

• 3:01:24Joe Rogan?

  But even more importantly, it's harder.

• 3:01:26Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:01:26Joe Rogan?

  It's harder to pull back. Like the Echo bike is easier to pull back. That one has more resistance.

• 3:01:31Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:01:32Joe Rogan?

  And when I, when I first started using that one, I was like, whoa, this one's tough. Like whatever you're getting out of the Echo bike or the Airdyne bike, that's that times two.

• 3:01:41Speaker 03

  Really? Yeah.

• 3:01:41Joe Rogan?

  What is it called again?

• 3:01:42Speaker 03

  Stepper.

• 3:01:43Joe Rogan?

  It's S T P R, right?

• 3:01:45Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 3:01:45Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:46Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 3:01:46Joe Rogan?

  That thing fucking rules.

• 3:01:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:01:48Joe Rogan?

  That thing rules.

• 3:01:49Speaker 03

  I'll get him the deck, yeah, cause all their equipment's like that.

• 3:01:51Joe Rogan?

  Well, that, that bike is the shit because, and it's also got different grips, different hand grips and different.

• 3:01:57Speaker 03

  I'm changing that up.

• 3:01:58Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:01:58Speaker 03

  I'm down here, I'm up at the top.

• 3:02:00Joe Rogan?

  You can mix it up, you can mix up where the resistance is coming from.

• 3:02:03Speaker 03

  And I actually lift the seat right up, so it's nearly like I'm in the standing position.

• 3:02:07Joe Rogan?

  Oh, nice.

• 3:02:09Speaker 03

  With the seat up and the legs are right down and it, it burns me.

• 3:02:12Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:02:13Speaker 03

  Absolutely burns me, I love it.

• 3:02:14Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's a, it's a great low impact cardio too. I mean, really conditions the shit out of your legs and your lungs. And it's, you know, you're not taking any pounding while you're doing it. That thing's hard.

• 3:02:24Speaker 03

  I'm stoked you like it.

• 3:02:24Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I love it. Yeah, because when it was in there, I didn't know when it had gotten delivered and I was like, oh, what the fuck is this? And then when it, when it was in the gym, I started trying, the moment I got on, I was like, oh.

• 3:02:34Speaker 03

  And it's easy to crank up too, like it's right there. There's no reaching down, the handle's right there.

• 3:02:39Joe Rogan?

  Mm hmm. Woo, it's good. There's so many different things you could use now, but what you were, what were you saying about earlier? It's like you, you have the opportunity now to be better than you've ever been before.

• 3:02:51Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:02:51Joe Rogan?

  Because of all this, you know, hormone optimization, the waste well stuff, peptides, nutrition, and understanding exercise science and then equipment. As you could condition your body and you could be in amazing shape at fifty eight, which is crazy.

• 3:03:06Speaker 03

  The knowledge of knowing that's actually out there is, I'm grateful for.

• 3:03:10Joe Rogan?

  Oh, yeah.

• 3:03:11Speaker 03

  Just the knowledge and knowing that we can be better every day. We can be healthier physically and mentally, it's great.

• 3:03:18Speaker 01

  And I see, I, I do see a lot of doctors who kind of shit on BPC or shit on stem cells and I'm like, I, whatever you're saying, cool, but I've never felt better. So.

• 3:03:31Joe Rogan?

  There's a lot of doctors.

• 3:03:32Speaker 03

  He's the proof, baby.

• 3:03:33Speaker 01

  You could say it doesn't work.

• 3:03:35Joe Rogan?

  Yeah. There's a lot of doctors. I've talked to doctors that shit on it and I had this one conversation with a doctor that I like. He's a nice guy and he's like, I think it's a lot of placebo and I go, there's peer reviewed studies on BBC 157. Like you're saying this and you haven't done the research. Like this is not debatable. Like BBC 157, it's a, there's a very clear pathway. They show why it works. It's, it naturally exists in the human body and you can enhance your body's ability to recover from soft tissue injuries. It's important. It's good. It's good for you. Like the idea that somehow or another this is horseshit. Like no, you're horseshit. You're spitting out some nonsense and the problem is a lot of doctors in particular, a lot of very educated people that are specialists in whatever they're in, like the, you know, you got a doctor, you went to school.

• 3:04:19Joe Rogan?

  You got a, rather you got a medical degree, you went to school, you did your residency. You want to be the one who has all the information. And when someone comes along and says, actually a better way to do it is through stem cells. Like, oh, stem cells. Yeah. Like what do you, what do you mean, oh, stem cells? How much do you know, there's, Neil Riordan, Neil Riordan has written many papers on stem cells. Like there's documented efficacy on neurological conditions, soft tissue injuries, joint rehabilitation. It's not guessing. Like for, for a doctor to say, I wouldn't mess with stem cells. It's unproven. The FDA hasn't approved it. It's because the FDA sucks. It doesn't mean that it doesn't work. Like there's scientists that are studying this stuff and there, there's people that are using it. You got

• 3:05:00Joe Rogan?

  shit tons of anecdotal evidence from world-class athletes that'll tell you the benefits of it. There's a reason why the UFC has partnered up with CPI down in, in Mexico, but they have to go to fucking Mexico to do this stuff. You know, which is crazy. Right. It's not here and available. Yeah, but Ways to Wells, Brigham in particular is really working hard to make all that stuff available in the United States. And in, it's only good. It's good for everybody. It's not bad for medicine. People are always going to need doctors. It's crazy. It's just more advancement and the problem is. It's going to, for sure, it's gonna interfere with people wanna sell you pain pills. It's gonna interfere with people that wanna do unnecessary surgeries.

• 3:05:41Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:05:41Joe Rogan?

  And they're, unfortunately, that's a real thing.

• 3:05:44Speaker 01

  That's where they make their, their money. And people like to say that, well, it's not FDA approved. And I'm like, have you seen the shit that is FDA approved?

• 3:05:52Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:05:53Speaker 01

  It's like, that, that doesn't mean anything to me. I might not wanna take it if it is.

• 3:05:56Joe Rogan?

  Something like thirty percent of all medications that get approved by the FDA get pulled.

• 3:06:00Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's just like, that doesn't mean shit to me.

• 3:06:02Joe Rogan?

  What is the percentage? Find out, put that in there.

• 3:06:05Speaker 01

  You look at all the fucking poisonous food they sell us, which is FDA approved. I'm like, so that's your argument?

• 3:06:11Joe Rogan?

  And not approved in other countries.

• 3:06:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:06:13Joe Rogan?

  Like, other countries have banned it, outlawed it. And we're like, fine, that's fine. It makes your Cheerios a different color.

• 3:06:19Speaker 03

  I was saying the difference in ingredients between countries. And it's like, what the?

• 3:06:23Speaker 01

  America has so much.

• 3:06:24Joe Rogan?

  Cheerios is a bad example. Fruit Loops is the best example. Like, the, the fact that, like, they were like, oh, we can't do that. Well, you do it in Canada. You sell the fucking, the same stuff with different dye, with natural dyes.

• 3:06:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:06:36Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, it's not as bright, but it also doesn't kill ya.

• 3:06:38Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 3:06:39Joe Rogan?

  It's not poison.

• 3:06:40Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:06:40Joe Rogan?

  It's just so gross.

• 3:06:42Speaker 01

  I know.

• 3:06:42Joe Rogan?

  They're just, they're so bought and paid for. And here's the real problem. A lot of these motherfuckers, they go from being, working at the FDA to cushy jobs in these major corporations.

• 3:06:51Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:06:51Joe Rogan?

  It's like they have this golden parachute set, a hundred percent.

• 3:06:54Speaker 01

  Compromised.

• 3:06:55Joe Rogan?

  Two point nine percent of FDA approved new drugs from nineteen eighty to twenty twenty one were withdrawn specifically for safety reasons out of one thousand three hundred and ten total approvals, where two hundred and ten, sixteen percent were discontinued for, of all, various reasons, including marketing factors. It's that low? I thought it was higher than that.

• 3:07:12Speaker 01

  But look at down below where it says, uh, antibiotics face higher rates at forty one percent.

• 3:07:17Joe Rogan?

  Whoa. Okay, so all told, I wonder what the pharmaceutical drugs that get pulled are.

• 3:07:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, and like.

• 3:07:25Joe Rogan?

  Antibiotics, forty one percent, it's nuts.

• 3:07:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, and twenty three percent of oncology, I mean.

• 3:07:31Joe Rogan?

  Indications withdrawn, wow.

• 3:07:32Speaker 01

  It's like, what the fuck? Wha- wha- wha- I mean, we're just, like, guessing on this shit?

• 3:07:37Joe Rogan?

  Well, it's not guessing. It's like, the, one of the problems with some of these studies is they're getting. Information from the pharmaceutical drug companies themselves. Like I, I had this lawyer on that was explaining to me how he litigated a case against pharmaceutical drug companies. And that one of the issues that they found was that these guys would run ten tests. And they would find no efficacy, but so they would rig a test in a very biased way. They showed the smallest amount of statistical significance. And then they would say it's statistically significant and they would push that and their only motivation was profit. They weren't saying this is going to cure cancer. This is going to stop blindness. No, it's like we can make money on this.

• 3:08:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08:15Joe Rogan?

  And there's even one of the cases with Vioxx where there was emails exchanged with the pharmaceutical drug companies. Talking about all the problems that it was going to cause, but we think we will do well with this.

• 3:08:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:08:28Joe Rogan?

  Which is crazy.

• 3:08:30Speaker 01

  I remember we looked that one up before. It's like, uh, it's, yeah. I mean, it's nuts how this, uh, this medicine stuff works, but it's like, they're still like with the COVID vaccine. Still things coming out. I saw last night on TV about in this, in a small number of cases, it can cause heart some whatever the fuck. But you've, we've, we've seen a number of these announcements, like all these, finally this negative stuff about the vaccine. Did it do any positive? Probably not, but all this fucking negative and that was just coming out years later.

• 3:09:02Joe Rogan?

  And we were bombarded with propaganda that it was necessary to stay alive.

• 3:09:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:09:06Joe Rogan?

  Like there was one, I think it was the Atlantic that had one headline. That said, if you're unvaccinated, it might be time to make your end of life will. And then the same, same magazine, years later, COVID vaccines may cause heart damage. Same exact magazine. Fuck you.

• 3:09:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:09:30Joe Rogan?

  Cause you guys only said that because you were being pressured by your advertisers or you were being pressured by culture or society. You didn't look at the history of pharmaceutical medication and how much they're full of shit. They've paid some of the biggest criminal fines in US history because they fucking lied. And the same companies are still selling you shit. You think they've, they came to Jesus? Do you think they're, they're different now? They don't just try to make money.

• 3:09:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:09:53Joe Rogan?

  And if you question that, you're a conspiracy theorist and a kook and you're taking horse medication like. It's fucking, it's so infuriating how many people buy into stuff.

• 3:10:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:10:04Joe Rogan?

  And how they don't even get in trouble for lying to everybody for so long, for years, just lies and propaganda. Face no recourse, not, not, not financial, not social.

• 3:10:16Speaker 01

  Nobody's responsible.

• 3:10:17Joe Rogan?

  Reputational, no recourse.

• 3:10:19Speaker 03

  That's disgusting.

• 3:10:20Speaker 01

  I'm still, I'm still waiting for Fauci to be strung up.

• 3:10:23Joe Rogan?

  He can't be. He got a bar, a giant pardon by the auto pen.

• 3:10:29Speaker 01

  Well, but what's, what's so frustrating too is that, so they basically said, hey, you have to take this poison or you're gonna lose your job.

• 3:10:37Joe Rogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:10:37Speaker 01

  Or you won't be able to do this, or you won't be able to do that. So take this poison. But then something that we've shown works, stem cell, BPC, that's what they'll shit on.

• 3:10:47Speaker 03

  Shot it down.

• 3:10:48Joe Rogan?

  It's like, what? They're just worried about losing control and they're worried about losing profits and they're worried about compounding pharmacies, making this stuff and they want peptides, they want all this stuff, but they want to be able to market it only under their brand. They want to own it. You know, they want to have patents for all this stuff. And that's where the real problem comes. A lot of these really effective things, they, they can't patent.

• 3:11:08Speaker 01

  Right. It's a, yeah, all tied to the money. I have a code for peptides that wasted well, I wish I could remember it so we could, so we could use it.

• 3:11:17Joe Rogan?

  Probably Cam. Is it C A M?

• 3:11:19Speaker 01

  It's probably dumb fuck.

• 3:11:22Joe Rogan?

  You don't know what your code is?

• 3:11:24Speaker 01

  No.

• 3:11:25Joe Rogan?

  Really? Should I call Brigham? Let's end this podcast. Well, he might, I don't want to bother him. We'll figure it out. Figure it out, fuckers.

• 3:11:31Speaker 01

  I'll put it on.

• 3:11:32Joe Rogan?

  Cam will put it on his Instagram.

• 3:11:33Speaker 01

  On my Instagram story. I won't put it on an actual post. It's not that important.

• 3:11:37Joe Rogan?

  Okay. Well, put it on whatever. Do whatever the fuck you want to do. I don't care.

• 3:11:42Speaker 01

  Well, okay. So here's what I wanted to end the podcast with. What's one thing you learned this season bow hunting? Or wait, is this my call to how we end it?

• 3:11:50Speaker 03

  Yeah, you can do it. You can do it.

• 3:11:53Joe Rogan?

  What I've learned this season, um.

• 3:11:57Joe Rogan?

  Oh, I always learn one thing every year, how important leg conditioning is. So fucking important. God, it's what maybe the most, especially elk hunting is the most important thing. Leg conditioning is fucking everything. If you can't get up those mountains and be fit and be able to do it over and over and over again, over like five days of miles and miles and miles, like, no matter what I did, I need to do more. That's what I learned that for sure. That's a big one.

• 3:12:21Speaker 01

  And you could never be in too good a shape.

• 3:12:23Joe Rogan?

  Never be in too good a shape, never be in too, never have your legs conditioned enough and you can over-practice archery. I learned that too, because I started developing this low back problem that I've been going to this trigger point massage. I went today. Oh my god.

• 3:12:37Speaker 01

  Helps.

• 3:12:37Joe Rogan?

  I get so scared every time I go into this guy's office. He fucking tortures me. It's horrible. Especially when he does the IT band with his fucking knuckles and his elbow. It's horrible, but it's super effective. I just, I got, essentially, I got tendonitis in my lower back.

• 3:12:53Speaker 01

  Overuse injury.

• 3:12:54Joe Rogan?

  Just overuse, because I'm pulling back an 80-pound bow 100 times over and over and over again, days after days after. And every time it would hurt, I would be an idiot and I would go, ah, walk through it.

• 3:13:04Speaker 01

  And you're obsessive.

• 3:13:05Joe Rogan?

  It got bad. Yeah, I'm a little obsessive. It got bad.

• 3:13:08Speaker 01

  But that's why you're great at things, too.

• 3:13:10Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, there's a, it's a double-edged sword. But you gotta learn, like you were talking about, not overdoing it in the the hypoxic thing. You gotta learn. And I don't learn always, but I try to. I learn those things.

• 3:13:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:13:22Joe Rogan?

  Those are huge.

• 3:13:23Speaker 01

  So, okay, what are you gonna do for your legs then?

• 3:13:26Joe Rogan?

  Continue, not stopping with leg conditioning ever until September.

• 3:13:33Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 3:13:33Joe Rogan?

  Like, there was a lot of times, one thing, it's waist wells helped me. I got a fucking weird left knee. But the latest round of stem cells that I had did real, they did a real improvement, like I really noticed it. And I'm protecting it. I'm not doing anything stupid in the meantime, you know, like no jujitsu, like no getting heel hooked. Nothing that's gonna aggravate it.

• 3:13:57Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:13:58Joe Rogan?

  And just build up my conditioning and maintain it over the year. That's, that's a big one.

• 3:14:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's a good.

• 3:14:05Joe Rogan?

  Would you learn camhans?

• 3:14:06Speaker 01

  Me? No, it's Adam's turn.

• 3:14:08Speaker 03

  You got lost. I think um I learned a lot this season, but just like more about life than just in a bow hunting scenario. But I think the biggest thing that I took away from it is health as in mental and physical and that you can always like step it up and you can always be better. And I think like I just, you know, like family life, whatever excuses I can come up with. You know, business and not having the time to put in the extra, but finding the extra time because of how valuable it is. And what the payoff in that is, you know, being physically healthy makes it a lot easier to be mentally healthy.

• 3:14:48Joe Rogan?

  Yeah, because you went for a while where you really didn't work out much.

• 3:14:50Speaker 03

  I didn't. I just, I I bow hunted a lot, you know, and I was on the tools a lot, like being in, you know, the building game. But it's not, that's different. It's a different sort of health, you know, whereas in actually targeting, you know, losing weight, eating clean, you know, because it's not just about the gym. It's like everything that else else that goes with it. So I learnt to eat a lot more cleaner. Um, I started doing the Hypoxic Wellness Studio. And I think a combination of those things and seeing the payoff in two weeks, you know, not talking months. It was like in two weeks, I could see a massive difference when you lined everything up, eating healthy. That made the mountains a lot more easier and a lot more enjoyable.

• 3:15:34Speaker 03

  I'm not saying I did more of the mountains. I think I only covered the same sort of miles. But it was just a lot more enjoyable. And that example that I kept saying to you, like going from the bottom of the mountain to the top without having four or five breaks in between when you're like, huh, and hurting. It was just a lot more enjoyable. I'd stop, you know, and it's just like, I wasn't even taking deep breaths. I was already scanning the mountains for a bull. You know, and I think it just become a lot more enjoyable and then getting the headspace from that too, whether it's from me feeling better, whether it's from better plasticity of the mind. I just, overall, I just felt a lot better, a lot more connected, a lot more grateful as well as in because you feel good.

• 3:16:18Speaker 03

  So it's easier to think of things more and be more grateful.

• 3:16:22Speaker 01

  I like that. That's a, well, what I took from that is you said climbing the mountain is more enjoyable. To me, that means you're gonna make better decisions.

• 3:16:30Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 3:16:31Speaker 01

  You're gonna be, uh, when you're hunting, you know, cause when we're fatigued, there's this famous saying, fatigue makes cowards of us all, but it also, it, it, we make poor decisions when we're fatigued. So you being at a higher level just physically allows you to hunt better is what I always think.

• 3:16:47Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 3:16:48Speaker 01

  Cause we're not taking shortcuts. We're making better decisions. We're reading the animal better. We're instead of like looking for a, cause we're gassed, so we don't wanna kick things. So we're looking at the ground more. Instead our head's up and we're reading the situation better. So it's just, it, it, it results in just better hunting and you enjoy it more.

• 3:17:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, definitely.

• 3:17:07Speaker 01

  But, um, I love that. Uh, what I learned is that I think I, um, I enjoy the success of others. And this has been reinforced over the years, but this year specifically, I enjoy being part of the success of others and taking others like new hunters and just sharing our lifestyle with them. And just what, what's important to me and it, and it gives me a chance to share. When you talk to somebody on the phone, you're not like getting deep, but when you're on a hunt, you get that opportunity. And they're more, I don't know if they have to listen because they can't go anywhere or it's just they're more, uh, interested in, in listening, but it allows me to really like, share why nature and the mountains and, and what I do is important.

• 3:17:52Speaker 01

  And it seems like it's real, it really resonates with people and it's just, I, I, that has given me so much strength. And, uh, and I, I don't know, I just, and purpose. It's just sharing our lifestyle with others is, that's what I've learned that, that drives me.

• 3:18:09Speaker 03

  You've been like that for a long time too. Like that first buffalo hunt that we went on back in Australia. And you killed a bull and it was like, I was as happy for you as if I killed it.

• 3:18:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:18:19Speaker 03

  And then when I killed my bull, it might've been the last day. Like it was the same. It was all like hugs and that was awesome. And I could see it glowing in your face. You know, that you want, you, you relish in other people's success as well.

• 3:18:32Joe Rogan?

  Gentlemen. This was awesome.

• 3:18:34Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 3:18:34Joe Rogan?

  Thank you.

• 3:18:35Speaker 01

  Thanks for having us on, Joe.

• 3:18:35Joe Rogan?

  Always great to hang out with you guys.

• 3:18:36Speaker 01

  Thank you, Joe.

• 3:18:37Joe Rogan?

  It's a pleasure, bud. Love you too.

• 3:18:39Speaker 01

  All right.

• 3:18:40Joe Rogan?

  Bye, everybody.