Pod Insights Here's The Thing with Alec Baldwin From the Archives: Anjelica Huston on Modeling, Movie-Making, and a Life in the Spotlight About this episode Anjelica Huston has lived many lives, all with grace and charisma. As the daughter of John Huston (director of The African Queen, The Maltese Falcon, and more) she was movie royalty from birth. But she grew up in rural Ireland and went to high school in Swinging-Sixties London. That meant she developed a set of values far removed from Hollywood high society. Her first career was as a high-end fashion model, a favorite subject of Richard Avedon and later a muse of Halston. But she had always wanted to be a movie actress, and she spent time in the trenches, working on her craft in classes and smaller roles before her Oscar-winning turn in Prizzi's Honor. Right as she was leaving the photo studio for the movie studio, she met Jack Nicholson: "he made me laugh," she tells Alec. The couple defined Hollywood cool for almost two decades. Huston tells Alec the story of all of her transitions -- romantic, professional, and geographic. Her two wonderful memoirs are A Story Lately Told https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781451656299 and Watch Me https://www.indiebound.org/book/9781476760346.
Originally aired April 7th, 2020.
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1:37 Alec Baldwin? I'm Alec Baldwin, and you're listening to Here's the Thing. Anjelica Huston is a remarkable actress who has lived a remarkable life. She has an Oscar for her emotionally complex and very funny performance in Prizzi's honor as the black sheep mob daughter, May Rose Pritsi.
1:58 Speaker 06 Come on, Anna Maya. I got a reputation delivered. I'm the family scandal. Everybody'd be disappointed if I stopped.
2:07 Alec Baldwin? Her Pitch Perfect Morticia in The Addams Family will be loved for generations.
2:14 Speaker 06 Oh, I'll be fine. I'm just like any modern woman, trying to have it all. Loving husband, a family. It's just I wish I had more time to seek out the dark forces and join their hellish crusade.
2:28 Alec Baldwin? But to fully understand the context of our conversation today, you'll also need a line from a movie Houston had nothing to do with. Annie Hall.
2:38 Speaker 07 We're gonna meet Jack and Angelica and have a drink there and if you'd like to come, we'd love to have you. We can just sit and talk.
2:46 Alec Baldwin? That was Paul Simon ad-libbing to Diane Keaton in 1976, trying to conjure the most unpretentious but exclusive party in all the world. Jack and Angelica will be there. No last names needed. Jack is Jack Nicholson, of course, Houston's boyfriend, for almost 20 years, starting in the early 70s. And for all that time, nobody embodied the nonchalant glamour of the Hollywood New Wave more than they did. Angelica Houston is the daughter of prima ballerina Enrica Soma and John Huston, one of the greatest filmmakers who's ever lived, the director of The Maltese Falcon, The Treasure of the Sierra Madre, The African Queen,
3:31 Alec Baldwin? and Prezi's honor for which his daughter won that Oscar. Angelica didn't spend a lot of time on set with her dad growing up, but she does remember being with him in the studio's smoky, dark wood offices in the final days of a Hollywood inhabited by the fast-talking, sharply dressed producers and agents of the golden age.
3:55 Speaker 06 They were the remnants of the old school. They were serious. There was a definite regard for the auteur. The agents worked for the auteurs. And these guys commanded respect, even Irving Lazar, who was the book agent who was commonly known as Swifty and was about four feet tall and
4:17 Alec Baldwin? And the glasses.
4:18 Speaker 06 Looked like a gnome, yeah. But there was there was a kind of grandeur to it. I remember
4:26 Speaker 06 Being around them and they were affectionate towards me. I was my dad's daughter, so I was I was sort of tolerated.
4:34 Alec Baldwin? Hmm. Well, maybe more than tolerated.
4:36 Speaker 06 Well, no, tolerated.
4:38 Alec Baldwin? Yeah, tolerated. Well, you did the one film with your dad first, which was what year was that?
4:42 Speaker 06 Um, that was called A Walk With Love And Death, and that was in nineteen sixty-eight. I was sixteen years old. I knew nothing, except that I wanted to be a movie actress, and
4:53 Alec Baldwin? Why?
4:55 Speaker 06 Movie actresses were beautiful. They
4:58 Alec Baldwin? And they got the attention of the men in Hollywood.
5:00 Speaker 06 Well, even before the men in Hollywood, you know, because I didn't grow up in Hollywood. I grew up in Ireland.
5:05 Alec Baldwin? Oh, I know.
5:06 Speaker 06 And I went to school in England. And I had a really fantastic mother who showed me not just movies, but showed me theater and took me to plays and operas and
5:20 Alec Baldwin? Where was she from?
5:21 Speaker 06 She was Italian, but she was raised in New York, and she'd been a ballerina dancer. And she had a very eccentric, wonderful father.
5:31 Alec Baldwin? What did he do?
5:32 Speaker 06 He was a restaurateur called Tony Soma, and he used to stand on his head and sing opera for his clientele.
5:39 Alec Baldwin? What was the restaurant?
5:40 Speaker 06 It was called Tony's Wife.
5:42 Alec Baldwin? What part of town?
5:43 Speaker 06 Fifty-seventh Street.
5:44 Alec Baldwin? The fifties.
5:44 Speaker 06 Yeah. And the Rockefellers went there, and people loved him a lot. He was like no one I've ever met. He was an eccentric, but wonderful. But my mother took me everywhere. I saw not only Maria Callas singing Tosca, but I also saw Iacentina Turner when I was like fifteen years old.
6:04 Alec Baldwin? You saw it all.
6:05 Speaker 06 At the Revolution, yeah. I saw it all. I saw Sir John Gilgood. I saw Dame Margaret Rutherford. I saw Laurence Olivier. I saw Daddy LaRue. I saw the best that England had to offer.
6:19 Alec Baldwin? Your parents met where?
6:20 Speaker 06 They met in Los Angeles, many years before.
6:24 Alec Baldwin? And she'd come out here for what?
6:25 Speaker 06 To work. She'd been offered a contract by Salsnick because she was very beautiful, and her face was on the cover of Life magazine as a young ballerina. She Groomed with Audrey Hepburn. She was part of that whole movement of young women, very beautiful, who are being groomed for stardom.
6:43 Alec Baldwin? Right.
6:44 Speaker 06 And then she met my father. She'd actually met him at Tony's Restaurant. My grandfather always insisted she write an essay if she was allowed to go to the theater or to see a ballet. So some years before, my father was about to go off to war and he'd promised her that he would take her to the ballet and she wouldn't have to write an essay about it. But then he'd reneged on his promise because he was sent off to war. So at least that's how the story went.
7:11 Alec Baldwin? Your father went to the war?
7:12 Speaker 06 He did. He was a director already.
7:14 Alec Baldwin? Right.
7:15 Speaker 06 And he did-
7:15 Alec Baldwin? They sent him there to film?
7:17 Speaker 06 That's right. He did several movies. He did Let There Be Light and The Battle of San Pietro, seminal documentaries for that time. He had a bit of a fight with the War Department later on because they considered them a bit too graphic, a bit too honest, shall we say.
7:35 Alec Baldwin? And when he came back from the war, because what I'm trying to track here is Ireland, England, LA. Why did you grow up in Ireland? Was that his idea? He wanted you guys to live over there?
7:46 Speaker 06 Well, he was part of the Committee for the First Amendment. McCarthy was hard at it, beating all the writers out of Hollywood. My father and Humphrey Bogart, Gary Cooper, Lauren Bacall, a bunch of them formed a Committee for the First Amendment, which was basically that, you know, you could stand on your rights as an individual, as a citizen, not have to answer questions from the committee. And I think the whole thing left Dad with a really bad taste in his mouth. He was making a movie called African Queen when I was born. And then afterwards, when-
8:23 Alec Baldwin? Where did your mother deliver you?
8:25 Speaker 06 Cedars of Lebanon, in Santa Monica.
8:27 Alec Baldwin? Where did they shoot? In Africa?
8:28 Speaker 06 Yes, in the Belgian Congo.
8:31 Alec Baldwin? Hepburn and Bogart and your father went to the Belgian Congo.
8:34 Speaker 06 Yes.
8:34 Alec Baldwin? And this is back in the day when women would deliver babies and the father was on the road.
8:38 Speaker 06 That's right.
8:38 Alec Baldwin? Your dad was making African Queen when you were delivered?
8:41 Speaker 06 Yes, he was.
8:42 Alec Baldwin? Oh, my God.
8:43 Speaker 06 And Bacall was making meals. You know, I think cooking up bugs for dinner and stuff. Um, when he returned, he then went practically immediately into Moulin Rouge in Paris. And my mother was sort of chasing him across the continent and left me behind. I was like three months old and finally came back and collected. My brother and I and brought us to France where we lived in Deauville for a while and Saint Jean de Lus.
9:13 Alec Baldwin? Why?
9:14 Speaker 06 To be nearer to him.
9:15 Alec Baldwin? Like a base for you, a European base?
9:17 Speaker 06 Exactly.
9:17 Alec Baldwin? But when you say she was chasing him around, was he, I mean, li- li- listen, I'm gonna, I'll get this out of the way upfront, okay? I wanna, he was such a, a great director, he's one of the greatest directors that ever lived. Was John Huston Incorporated a tough thing to keep God, those fires going? Did he always have to be shooting and going and working?
9:35 Speaker 06 He was on, yeah, he was on the march, my father. He, he, he was working on the next picture while shooting the last picture.
9:43 Alec Baldwin? He loved to shoot.
9:44 Speaker 06 He loved to shoot and he loved locations and he loved, um.
9:48 Alec Baldwin? Hotels.
9:49 Speaker 06 Hotels, challenges, women.
9:53 Alec Baldwin? Cigars.
9:53 Speaker 06 Consequent cigars, a certain amount of liquor. He liked the chase, uh, he was a sportsman, a daredevil. And I think extremely enticing to women in general. So I think my mother was attempting to keep up, which of course was hopeless.
10:11 Alec Baldwin? It was hard to tame him.
10:13 Speaker 06 Yes, indeed, I think.
10:14 Alec Baldwin? But she tried.
10:15 Speaker 06 Uh, well, I don't know that she tried to tame him, but I think she tried to keep up with him.
10:21 Alec Baldwin? With him. Your parents get divorced when you're how old?
10:23 Speaker 06 My mother died when I was sixteen years old in a car crash and, um, they hadn't divorced.
10:30 Alec Baldwin? Where did this happen, the accident?
10:31 Speaker 06 Um, she was killed traveling to Venice.
10:34 Alec Baldwin? Where were you?
10:35 Speaker 06 I was in London at school.
10:38 Alec Baldwin? What was she like? What was your mom like?
10:41 Speaker 06 Um, my mother was incredibly beautiful. She was very sensitive. She had an Italian background, even though she was New York Italian. Um, she, she was a good girl. Um, she pleased her father. She wrote him long letters when she was on the road in the ballet. Um, she was still in the corps de ballet, um, when she was in her teens, almost until she married my father. She'd come to Los Angeles just in the previous couple of years and she'd gotten immediately pregnant with my brother. She had incredible taste. I don't know where she got it from, but she knew about things.
11:21 Alec Baldwin? Instincts some people have.
11:22 Speaker 06 Yeah. She was a great decorator. She was a wonderful hostess, but she was earthy as well as just beautiful and erudite. She had a full laugh and she had great wit. And I think it was hard for her because in a way, you know, she wasn't like those beautiful adjuncts to the gentleman. She was very specifically herself.
11:51 Alec Baldwin? But when your mom dies and you're 16, which is a very, uh, significant age, what happens to you in terms of your mom, I'm assuming was around more?
12:04 Speaker 06 Yeah, and I was living with my mother, I may have been 17 actually, going to school in London. I'd done this movie with my dad where we were a very, very bad relationship point during that movie. I'd said all my life, I want to be an actress, I want to be an actress. And finally, he'd, he'd launched me. This was, you know, a huge thing that he'd done for me, I think, against everyone's better judgment. And to tell you the truth, I never liked the part. I never liked the film. I didn't really have any.
12:41 Speaker 06 Regard for it. And who was I to feel that way? And who was I not to be grateful? So this was a really bad moment between my father and I. And it was after I came back from making that movie, barely speaking to him, which that's not a good relationship for a director actress.
13:04 Alec Baldwin? I've been there, believe me.
13:05 Speaker 06 It's an ugly thing.
13:06 Alec Baldwin? Yeah.
13:07 Speaker 06 But anyway, I then took a job understudying Marianne Faithfull in Tony Richardson's Hamlet, which
13:14 Alec Baldwin? In London.
13:15 Speaker 06 Yeah, at the Roundhouse. Nicole Williamson was playing Hamlet. I rather enjoyed that because Marianne was in delicate health and she often didn't go on, so I had some good opportunities to go on. And Shakespeare is like a protective shield. He's like a hazmat suit. You can't be bad, I don't think, with lines like that.
13:39 Alec Baldwin? You have more of a chance with Shakespeare than you have with him.
13:40 Speaker 06 A lot, a lot better, you know? And I remember lines in A Walk With Love and Death, like, "Go shoot a cow." And I reacted so badly to the script.
13:49 Alec Baldwin? It wasn't right.
13:50 Speaker 06 I was barely able to do it, you know? But now, having been given a little bit of a chance to go on and flex my muscles, I was really liking, you know, treading the boards. It was at that time that my mother died.
14:05 Alec Baldwin? You were doing that show?
14:06 Speaker 06 I was doing that show. And when she died, the show was on its way to New York. And I grabbed a seat on board and went to New York. And I don't even remember my father's having an objection. I think he was so sort of bewildered by my powers of escape. And by the time he caught up with me in New York, I was already modeling. I'd started a career for myself and I was
14:44 Speaker 06 Pretty determined to lead life my way.
14:47 Alec Baldwin? New York was never home for you?
14:49 Speaker 06 No, I stayed initially with my best friend at the time, who I'd met when I was like seven and she was ten. Her name is Joan Buck. She was the daughter of my father's producer on those war movies and cameraman Jules Buck. And I stayed with Joan and she was working for Mademoiselle at the time. So I met a lot of people through her. I met very good photographers like Gabor Dant, Helmut Newton, and David Bailey, who I'd actually met in London, and Dick Avedon, who I'd met in London, who was a friend of my mother's.
15:31 Speaker 06 And so I started to model.
15:37 Speaker 06 At first, it was kind of difficult because I didn't have a lot of self-confidence. I knew what I wanted to do, but it wasn't a natural fit. I remember going into Eileen Ford and she said, "Well, obviously, you need a nose job." And then she asked to look at my legs and it was, it was not that comfortable, but I-
16:01 Alec Baldwin? It was like the county fair.
16:02 Speaker 06 Yes.
16:03 Alec Baldwin? Whereas we're herding cattle here.
16:05 Speaker 06 Yeah, yeah. But on the other hand, I had a few champions, Dick Avedon being one of them. And we did a really nice layout and Vogue, like a lot of pages, in Ireland. And so I kind of gained a reputation as an editorial model, not an advertising model. So it was considered very grand to be an editorial model, except that one didn't make money. You know, for editorial, you made a few hundred dollars a day.
16:35 Alec Baldwin? It was art.
16:36 Speaker 06 Yes, as opposed to the girls who are out there for Clairol or whatever. And I was never going to be a Clairol girl. So after about four years, where I was in a relationship with a much older photographer called Bob Richardson, and he was great to work for, a lot less nice to live with, but-
17:00 Alec Baldwin? It's great until you went home.
17:01 Speaker 06 That's right, yeah.
17:02 Alec Baldwin? You met him where?
17:03 Speaker 06 A shoot for Harper's Bazaar.
17:05 Alec Baldwin? He was the photographer?
17:06 Speaker 06 He was the photographer.
17:07 Alec Baldwin? Editorial. And you were how old?
17:09 Speaker 06 I was eighteen.
17:10 Alec Baldwin? You were eighteen?
17:11 Speaker 06 Yeah.
17:12 Alec Baldwin? And he was how old?
17:13 Speaker 06 Forty-two.
17:13 Alec Baldwin? Okay.
17:14 Speaker 06 But he was an artist and he was a magician. He'd look at you through the lens and then he'd just take the camera down and place it in his lap for a minute and stare at you and you felt like you could really provide the goods. Sometimes after we worked together, I'd be trembling, I'd be shaking from the impact. There's something about working with people who are very, very good. It's the biggest turn-on in the world.
17:41 Alec Baldwin? Sure. Talent is the greatest aphrodisiac.
17:43 Speaker 06 It is. And I'd have to say that, you know, our relationship was very much guided by that. That was central to our relationship. I don't really want to remember how we were as a man and a woman. I much prefer to remember as photographer and model.
18:05 Alec Baldwin? Colleagues.
18:05 Speaker 06 Yes, as colleagues and as two people who went after something.
18:10 Alec Baldwin? Is there a period where that ends, New York?
18:12 Speaker 06 Well, my father, of course, was horrified by the fact that I was going out with a forty-two year old man, and not just any forty-two year old man. Bob had a history of drugs and...
18:25 Alec Baldwin? Was your father anti-drug?
18:27 Speaker 06 Oh, seriously, yes. Extremely, extremely anti-drug. And I don't think any father is all that much in love with the idea of his seventeen year old girl getting involved with a drug addict. But the fact about Bob was that he was one of a group of rather important and interesting and famous people who went to see a doctor called Dr. Max Jacobson. He had people like Margot Fontaine and Jack Kennedy and Truman Capote, Tennessee Williams, a lot of very interesting people.
19:05 Speaker 06 And he gave them the combination of drugs, some I think very pleasant and mind-expanding, and then he'd hit them with something not quite so good. He was manipulative. And there was an article written about Bob Richardson in the New York Times. It talked about his experience with Dr. Max Jacobson, and my father read this article and as a consequence thought, huh, well, maybe... This is not a common street junkie who my daughters chose to be with, but someone of deeper interest. So he invited Bob and I to go on a trip to Mexico. It was an ill-fated excursion in that, um, straight out, I got the worst sunburn in my entire
19:50 Speaker 06 life. They thought about, you know, what I wanted to drink. They thought about, you know, where we should eat. They thought about a lot of things. At the end of the, that trip, my father went on an excursion solo to La Paz to find me a black pearl and came back empty-handed, except for a pair of straw hats, despondent.
20:16 Alec Baldwin? If I remember correctly from the book, this was the period of lots of jewels and furs.
20:19 Speaker 06 Yes, yes.
20:20 Alec Baldwin? Furs and jewels.
20:21 Speaker 06 Absolutely.
20:22 Alec Baldwin? Just a cascade of them.
20:23 Speaker 06 Yes. And then we were leaving to go back to Los Angeles and Bob and I had an epic fight. And, um, we parted at Los Angeles airport and I'd separated our, our clothes from our bags the night before and down to the last minute, I wasn't sure if I could actually
20:46 Alec Baldwin? Have the strength to do it.
20:47 Speaker 06 Make the cut, yeah. But I did and I didn't look back. I went to live with my dad for the next, hmm, four or five months.
20:57 Alec Baldwin? Where?
20:58 Speaker 06 Uh, in the Palisades.
20:59 Alec Baldwin? Is he in L.A. as a function purely of the business? And this is where the movies are made?
21:03 Speaker 06 Absolutely.
21:04 Alec Baldwin? Or did he love Southern California?
21:05 Speaker 06 No, actually loathed it.
21:07 Alec Baldwin? Loathed it. I had a feeling.
21:08 Speaker 06 Didn't like it, had, had, um, you know, a certain sort of despise for it. They couldn't decide on a, on a particular style of house and how, you know, Tudor was followed by Regency, was followed by Georgian. Aesthetically, it didn't please him. He felt that it was all too safe, um, predictable, bourgeois, um, no.
21:34 Alec Baldwin? Mamet had a great line, "There's no place on earth where the homes are more finely appointed than in Bel-Air," and the artwork and the tapestries. He said, "These moguls who control these media companies, they have the most elegant taste." And he wondered, "What happened to that taste from when they left their driveway and drove through the gates of the studio? Where did that taste go?"
21:56 Speaker 06 Well, sometimes they took it to their offices.
21:59 Alec Baldwin? Some did.
21:59 Speaker 06 And then others, not so much.
22:01 Alec Baldwin? But this is home for you.
22:02 Speaker 06 Yes, and it has been for a long time. And something about it said home to me when I began to live here. The Palisades was very beautiful. It was sort of semi-rural. My father had just gotten remarried to a woman called Cece Shane.
22:22 Speaker 06 I could ride horses with Cece up in Will Rogers. I really liked Will Rogers a lot. Something about being in a city that wasn't concrete, being in a place where you could go out to restaurants and shops. And LA was great in the day. I mean, it was fun. There was the luau. There were, there were about seven great restaurants, Scandia. There were some really wonderful places to go and be. And I think in the day, it was a very fun place to live.
22:56 Alec Baldwin? When did you start to sort of do change?
22:59 Speaker 06 Ah, the eighties, probably.
23:01 Alec Baldwin? Just get too built up?
23:03 Speaker 06 It got too built up and Rodeo Drive became very glitzy. Up until that point, there was a kind of comfort to the place and, and I longed for beautiful weather and brown skin. I mean, that was the thing that you really wished for in school when I was growing up.
23:20 Alec Baldwin? And Nicholson, of all people, I said to him, I said, you could have any home, anywhere, and you live here. And he said, I can't do my bed, Jack. But he was like, he said, yeah, he said, this is my town.
23:30 Speaker 06 Oh, he loves it.
23:30 Alec Baldwin? This is my town, he said. He just loves it.
23:33 Speaker 06 He loves it. He doesn't have to leave home. He's completely happy, has his pictures, he's got his books, his teve.
23:40 Alec Baldwin? His basketball game.
23:41 Speaker 06 And his Lakers. Oh, I was so sad about Kobe.
23:45 Alec Baldwin? Yes, that's terrible.
23:46 Speaker 06 I was as sad for Jack about Kobe as I was for Kobe, frankly. The Lakers are almost part of Jack, like an extra limb. But, but yes, it was truly his town and I fell in love with it as I fell in love with Jack. There was a kind of freedom. You could be completely under the radar here.
24:11 Speaker 06 New York, every time you go outside, people see you, people recognize you. For some reason, I was recognizable quite early, and I never really liked it. You know, unless I was ready for it. I'm fine if I put on the dog and go out, but I'm not fine if I'm taken unawares. And something about feeling exposed, like you did on the streets of New York. It's still, it still takes me by surprise. And there's a look people give you in the streets sometimes, I'm sure you know it, which is like, it's a look of appreciation. And it's almost a wink, and they don't want to bother you. But still, you feel like they know me. They know me too much. They signal you.
24:55 Speaker 06 Especially when you think you look shitty, but.
24:59 Alec Baldwin? Everyone's got a camera in their pocket 24 hours a day, and they take pictures of you eating, and they take pictures of me with my children, and they make your life miserable.
25:07 Speaker 06 Miserable.
25:08 Alec Baldwin? Miserable, like a fishbowl.
25:09 Speaker 06 It's a very different thing. For me, having been a model, I loved having my picture taken. I really did.
25:17 Alec Baldwin? When you were signed on to it.
25:18 Speaker 06 Yeah, it's a form of addiction, and also the way a good photographer takes your picture. I'm reminded briefly of Bill Cunningham, who was essentially a street photographer. But he would say, "Do you mind?" And then, and you go, "No, no, go ahead." But there was a kind of decorum about it. Now, not at all.
25:39 Alec Baldwin? Yeah. And when did you decide to get back on the horse acting wise?
25:43 Speaker 06 When I split with Bob at LAX.
25:46 Alec Baldwin? And what's the next project you take on as an actress?
25:49 Speaker 06 The Last Tycoon with Ilya Kazan.
25:52 Alec Baldwin? With De Niro.
25:53 Speaker 06 With Bob De Niro, yeah. But Jack was maybe going to do that film, and then decided not to.
25:58 Alec Baldwin? You weren't with Jack then, were you?
25:59 Speaker 06 No.
26:00 Alec Baldwin? No.
26:01 Speaker 06 Actually, yes, just, just.
26:04 Alec Baldwin? Where did you meet him?
26:05 Speaker 06 I met him at his house, at his birthday party. I went with Cece. She said, "Oh, there's a party at Jack Nichols." I mean, that's how loose things were those days.
26:14 Alec Baldwin? And all of his nicknames. And what did he call you?
26:17 Speaker 06 Toots.
26:18 Alec Baldwin? Toots.
26:18 Speaker 06 Toots, and then Zabig, which came from The Big.
26:22 Alec Baldwin? The Big.
26:22 Speaker 06 The Big Fabulous, because I used to say fabulous all the time. So it was The Big Fabulous, and then it became Zabig.
26:29 Alec Baldwin? What did he call the car? The Mercedes was the what?
26:32 Speaker 06 Bing.
26:32 Alec Baldwin? The Bing.
26:33 Speaker 06 Bing, Bing Cherry.
26:34 Alec Baldwin? He doesn't still have that car, does he?
26:36 Speaker 06 No.
26:36 Alec Baldwin? A 600 Mercedes.
26:37 Speaker 06 It was a great car.
26:38 Alec Baldwin? I have a 600 Mercedes.
26:39 Speaker 06 Do you?
26:40 Alec Baldwin? The last year they made, the old model, 1989.
26:43 Speaker 06 Such a beautiful car. What do you, do you call your car a name?
26:46 Alec Baldwin? Uh, no, but I'm going to now.
26:47 Speaker 06 Mine.
26:48 Alec Baldwin? I'm gonna call, yeah.
26:49 Speaker 06 Call it mine.
26:50 Alec Baldwin? Mine.
26:51 Speaker 06 That was another nickname Jack had for me, mine, which became Minel. When we were skiing, I'd be slaloming down the slope and he'd be up on a, on a chairlift and I'd hear, "Mider?"
27:03 Alec Baldwin? Minel!
27:06 Alec Baldwin? Angelica Houston, another seminal figure of the 70s and 80s, is poet and punk rocker Patti Smith. Like Houston, Smith is a great artist who had to navigate a complex relationship with another great artist. In Smith's case, photographer Robert Maplethorpe, who died of complications from AIDS in 1989.
27:28 Speaker 06 You know, I'm still connected with him. I still think about him every day. And I mean, of course, you know, we were boyfriend and girlfriend. We did all the things young people do. But as he felt freer as an artist and a human being, the next thing that happened is he blossomed and felt his sexual nature. We had to weather that. It was difficult and it took a few years because neither one of us wanted to part.
27:58 Alec Baldwin? You can get a link to my full conversation with Patti Smith by texting SMITH to 70101. That's S-M-I-T-H to 70101.
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28:50 Alec Baldwin? Hey, I'm Nile Rodgers, producer, songwriter, guitarist, and co-founder of the group Chic. A great song has a way of defining a moment, a moment of joy, heartbreak, or anything in between. This fall, I'll be driving across the country, dropping in on some of the coolest, most fascinating artists working today. We'll go deep into their lives and careers and hear what it was like before the moment that made them. From hitmakers like Miguel... That last year, finishing that record was the hardest experience of my life. Regardless of how everyone else buys into this, I believe in this and I'm gonna push.
29:35 Alec Baldwin? To rising stars like Alex Warren.
29:38 Speaker 04 You know, a song is a story and the verse is setting the scene. And for me, at least, it's allowing me to be personal and vulnerable with the audience, whether it's about my wife and I'm being vulnerable about her, or it's about, you know, my parents and I'm being vulnerable to them. And it's almost like a cinematic piece in a way where each song tells that beautiful story.
29:57 Alec Baldwin? It's gonna be one hell of a trip. Experience Before the Moment, a Lincoln Original Series on the iHeart Radio app, YouTube, or wherever you get your podcasts.
30:13 Alec Baldwin? I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the Thing. When Anjelica Huston's stepmother Cece brought her to Jack Nicholson's birthday party in 1973, she couldn't have imagined what she was setting in motion. Huston was smitten and spent the night.
30:30 Speaker 06 He made me laugh, but he sent me home in a cab. I showed up the next day in my evening dress from the night before and Cece said, "What are you thinking?" I had no idea how I should be treated, basically. I was about 19 or 20.
30:47 Alec Baldwin? So you were still?
30:48 Speaker 06 I was still a baby, yeah.
30:49 Alec Baldwin? A kid.
30:50 Speaker 06 Yeah. Without any idea how I should be treated or, you know, sense of decor.
30:55 Alec Baldwin? What the rules were.
30:56 Speaker 06 No, none. And I remember desperately hoping he'd call me. And when he did, I said immediately, "But if you take me out, you have to pick me up and you have to drive me home." And I remember this long pause on the other end of the phone. But he did just that. Once he was kind of...
31:16 Alec Baldwin? Once he signed on.
31:17 Speaker 06 Yes, once he signed on or he was pointed in the right direction, he could be very gallant. Jack was a wonderful boyfriend, too easily distracted.
31:27 Alec Baldwin? Do you find that getting married and settling down is just like, there's no time for that? You're too busy enjoying this life?
31:34 Speaker 06 Well, I can't say that I really enjoyed it all that much. I spent, I spent a lot of time in tears, a lot of time crying when I was with Jack, a lot of the time feeling slighted, a lot of the time feeling like he didn't get me enough, or that I wasn't getting enough attention from him. His attention was very splintered. He reminded me sometimes of a wonderful dog we used to have called Big Boy together, who was a, he was half Labrador, half Golden Retriever, big black dog, wonderful dog. But he'd get a look in his eye and that
32:15 Speaker 06 was it. He was off. And I always knew that I really wasn't the most important thing in Jack's life. I was...
32:22 Alec Baldwin? Was it your dad all over again?
32:24 Speaker 06 Um, yeah. And Jack got a tremendous amount of attention. And that was hard for me, you know, because also I knew what it was to get my own kind of attention. And so it turns into a kind of competition on some level.
32:39 Alec Baldwin? So when did that begin? Meaning, when did you start to say, "When am I going to make me and my work the most important thing?" When does that start?
32:46 Speaker 06 It started pretty early on. And, and I think...
32:51 Speaker 06 Oh, it was difficult because I didn't really have any background in acting. I'd been around these guys all my life, but I'd never studied. And I remember going to a class, a good friend of Jack's called Harry Geddes, wonderful guy, took me to a class at Eric Morris's studio, and I was just sort of appalled.
33:16 Speaker 06 There was Linda Crystal on the floor begging for a dime. There was, you know, it was a whole kind of scene in there. And I remember coming out and being just indignant and outraged. And I knew nothing, except that I had an instinct. So shortly thereafter, I was speaking to a friend of mine, and she said, "I'd like to introduce you to someone that I think you might like. She's a teacher, and her name is Peggy Fury." And I walked into Peggy's studio, and I audited maybe for three classes before she said, "All right, you know, let's see what you do in this exercise."
34:01 Speaker 06 And, God, I fell in love. I fell in love with acting. I fell in love with her. I fell in love with that class. And I was in that class for about three or four years, just doing scenes. She turned on all the lights in me, you know? And around that time-
34:23 Alec Baldwin? What about her? How did she succeed in doing that?
34:27 Speaker 06 First of all, she really listened, and she really watched you. And she built up a complicity with me. So if someone was really bad-
34:37 Alec Baldwin? So it's Bob Richardson all over again, but a different medium?
34:39 Speaker 06 Yeah. And if someone was really bad in the class, or was sort of hashing it up in a scene or something, she'd kind of sneak a look at me, like, give me a wink or something. She made me feel like I knew what I was doing. And sometimes she'd criticize me outright, but she never embarrassed me. She loved props.
35:05 Speaker 06 Peggy would love it like if you brought food into class because then you know you'd eat the food after the scene. There was something so motherly and so warm about her. She reminded me of the way I was with my mother. And I think that was something that I really needed at the time.
35:26 Alec Baldwin? Women helped you.
35:28 Speaker 06 Yeah, women have always been better friends to me than men, actually. That's true. It's true. Although, they challenge you. Women, it's a gentler approach. And I think men challenge you. It's not because they love you less. It's because they want you to prove yourself somehow. Or at least the men in my life kind of were more attracted to what was independent in me.
35:54 Alec Baldwin? So the first film you do that is a real movie that you get some attention for is?
36:03 Speaker 06 Pizzicata.
36:04 Alec Baldwin? And you were with Jack then?
36:06 Speaker 06 I was with Jack.
36:07 Alec Baldwin? So when you're on the set of the film and it's Jack, it's your boyfriend and your dad.
36:14 Speaker 06 Yeah.
36:15 Alec Baldwin? And you're back on a set with your dad after the last go around was not a party.
36:19 Speaker 06 No.
36:20 Alec Baldwin? And I always remember, Jack said to me, I said, what was it like on the set of Chinatown where it's this iconic director and you of great movie star and Polanski is about to become an iconic director. He's on his way to that. And I said, what was it like with the three of them together? And I'll do my bad imitation of your dad too. Jack said that, he said that Houston called him Roman.
36:44 Speaker 06 I know.
36:45 Alec Baldwin? He called him Roman. And he said Polanski would hold forth with all this kind of direction. And Houston would turn to him and say, now Roman, there are really only two directions. A little more or a little less. And I thought, what a world to be with these three like titans, or whatever you want to call them on the set of the film.
37:05 Speaker 06 Also, I remember on Chinatown, Jack going like, Roman wants me to wear this fucking bandage on my nose. He doesn't want to shoot my face. He wants this bandage on my face. Of course, it's the most iconic.
37:18 Alec Baldwin? Still.
37:19 Speaker 06 Still, in movies practically.
37:21 Alec Baldwin? What was it like for you when you were doing Pizzicata?
37:25 Speaker 06 I felt like, oh, when I, first of all, The part didn't come to me through either of them. It came to me from John Foreman, who'd put me in a movie called The Ice Pirates, which was, we used to call them B-movies, but it was, it was a pretty, pretty tragic movie in which I played Maida, the, the most powerful swordswoman in the universe. But I liked it a lot because I got to play more type. I, I wasn't playing a wilting flower. I liked that a lot. And I got to decapitate men and stuff. So that was, that worked for me pretty well in that movie.
38:07 Speaker 06 And, and as I left the set one night, oh, and my love, my love interest was John Matusak. I used to climb him like a tree. He was wonderful.
38:15 Alec Baldwin? Football player.
38:16 Speaker 06 Football player, the twos. But anyway, as I was leaving the, the set one night, John gave me a book, Prizzi's Honor, and said, I'd like you to read this. Tell me what you think. So I read it overnight. I said to him the next day, wow, that's wonderful. It's such a good book. And he said, so what do you think of Mayrose? And I said, wow, that's a great part. He said, yeah. What do you think about you playing Mayrose and Jack to play Charlie Partana and your father to direct? And I went, oh, no, don't do that to me, John. God, that's terrible. Don't do that to me.
38:58 Alec Baldwin? It's a nightmare.
38:59 Speaker 06 A nightmare. And then he said, well, we have to go and recruit them. And I went, you can recruit them. I'm not going to recruit them.
39:06 Alec Baldwin? I'm not lifting a finger.
39:07 Speaker 06 Nothing, not a finger. And then cut to a couple of weeks later, John is on my doorstep to pick me up to go to Mexico to talk to my dad about doing Prizzi's Honor. And I said, I'm not going with you. And I was, yes, you are. I went, no, I'm not. He left alone, furious with me. Came back. He'd been to Mexico. Jack was already in Mexico, visiting with Dad. He'd somehow gotten Jack out there. They'd been watching the female gymnasts in the Olympics for the better part of the weekend. And Jack had misunderstood. He thought the movie was a straight movie. He hadn't read it as a comedy, but as soon as Dad had explained to
39:52 Speaker 06 him that it was a comedy, he felt good about it. And that was it. He was on board.
39:58 Alec Baldwin? When did they find out you were on board?
40:00 Speaker 06 I'm not sure that they knew quite yet.
40:03 Alec Baldwin? They didn't?
40:04 Speaker 06 They might not have.
40:05 Alec Baldwin? How was your father different when he directed you in that film than when he directed you in the first? Did he treat you differently?
40:10 Speaker 06 Well, yeah, because he saw that I knew I'm happy.
40:14 Alec Baldwin? He had my respect for you.
40:15 Speaker 06 He saw that I was happy in my part. There's, there's nothing worse than a disgruntled actress, as I'm sure you know.
40:22 Alec Baldwin? And then the film comes out, and?
40:25 Speaker 06 And.
40:26 Alec Baldwin? Good time, good time for you.
40:28 Speaker 06 Very good time. Very good time.
40:30 Alec Baldwin? How did you feel?
40:31 Speaker 06 I felt.
40:32 Alec Baldwin? Honestly, how did you feel?
40:33 Speaker 06 Vindicated.
40:33 Alec Baldwin? You did?
40:34 Speaker 06 I did. I felt, first of all, it was great playing the wrong girl, because it was a movie about, or at least my movie, because it was the movie within the movie for me, was about being the wrong girl. And so, I got to play all of my insecurities. I got to demonstrate every single insecurity that I had, in a, in a totally confident way. So, it was fantastic for me.
41:08 Alec Baldwin? But do things change in terms of what you're gonna do, who you're gonna work with, the script, the usual bullshit? The scripts that are sent to you, the directors that are ringing you up, it changes after that?
41:18 Speaker 06 It changes a lot.
41:19 Alec Baldwin? Nothing changes your life like an Oscar.
41:21 Speaker 06 Nothing changes your, and also, you get offered a bunch of stuff that you're really wrong for.
41:25 Alec Baldwin? We want you to play Superwoman.
41:28 Speaker 06 Exactly.
41:29 Alec Baldwin? Yeah, we're gonna do Superman and then we're gonna do Supergirl.
41:32 Speaker 06 We want you to be the blonde part, yeah. But I got to play another great part. I got to be Lily Dillon in The Grifters, a real blonde part.
41:41 Alec Baldwin? How did Jack and your father react when you won?
41:44 Speaker 06 I think they were a bit flabbergasted, actually.
41:49 Speaker 06 I remember I didn't go backstage because I was in such a delirium. I ran back into the audience and
41:56 Alec Baldwin? You didn't go do the press lap backstage?
41:58 Speaker 06 No, I ran offstage before anyone could steer me in the right direction. And I went back to my seat and Jack was crying and I thought, what's he crying about? And then I said, my dad was crying, Foreman was crying. He was probably crying because I forgot to thank him, but I couldn't believe it. It was like, how come they're all undone?
42:19 Alec Baldwin? Who's another director that you worked with who you felt that really intense connection with?
42:26 Speaker 06 Oh, the wonderful Nick Rogue.
42:27 Alec Baldwin? Really?
42:28 Speaker 06 I loved working with Nick. He was so subversive and so fun and naughty and smart. I did a movie with him called The Witches and it's ostensibly for children. It's actually a very sophisticated movie. It's about Hitler.
42:47 Alec Baldwin? Right.
42:48 Speaker 06 It's this strange group of women who come together in a hotel in Cornwall and they all turn into witches and they turn little boys into mice and it's, it's really a very good movie, I have to say. It was certainly one of my best experiences.
43:06 Alec Baldwin? I grew up and watched a lot of television for a very specific period of my life. I watched F Troop and Gilligan's Island and The Munsters and The Addams Family and Canted Hammer. And I watched, and when as soon as the Aaron Spelling era was launched, I never turned on, the last broadcast TV show I watched with any regularity is I used to watch Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman was the last show I watched. So if you told me that someone was going to take The Addams Family and make it into a film that I thought was really, really funny, I'd say, you're out of your fucking mind. And yet it's two of the funniest movies I've ever seen in my life. How did that happen?
43:42 Speaker 06 Um, well, I'd have to say Barry was fabulous, but there was the genius Scott Rudin. And I think Scott
43:54 Speaker 06 Scott is so passionate about the work. He's an amazing producer and he, I remember him being there day and night. He, for, for every scene.
44:10 Alec Baldwin? For people who don't know, Sonnenfeld was a great cinematographer before he directed, directed films. I needed a good producer, probably.
44:16 Speaker 06 Oh, unbelievable. And, and I think occasionally they, they fought, but we never knew about it.
44:24 Alec Baldwin? Keep that off the set.
44:25 Speaker 06 Yeah, they were absolutely unified. And I'd get into a really bad mood because I had, I had lifts on my eyes and lifts on my neck and corsets and nails and, you know, it was the most.
44:39 Alec Baldwin? Like a four hour makeup job to me.
44:40 Speaker 06 It was a four hour makeup job and it took another two hours to prep me before I went on set and it was just brutal. You couldn't sit down in the dress. It was a nightmare. And every once in a while, you'd have to wait for Thing to work, you know, and it was like, come on, six hours later, you guys have to be kidding me. And they'd come and apologize in the sweetest way.
45:05 Alec Baldwin? Yeah. I did Cat in the Hat with Mike Myers and they said, now, remember that Mike comes in and we get him in makeup and once he's done in makeup and we have, we've pre-lit his sets and we've rehearsed the scenes and they go, and they said, we're so frantic about the time we have Mike available because he's only going to work so many hours in his contract. Then we gotta take all this shit off of him. They said, please don't be offended, but whatever scene you're in the middle of.
45:30 Speaker 06 I know.
45:31 Alec Baldwin? And you're gonna be in mid-sentence.
45:33 Speaker 06 They're gonna cut you out.
45:34 Alec Baldwin? And when we, they walkie talkie us that Mike is ready, we're gonna just stop everything and leave you dead. We're gonna leave you by the side of the road.
45:41 Speaker 06 Well, that's what it was like, except Mike in this occasion was Thing, a hairy Thing.
45:46 Alec Baldwin? When I came to New York in seventy-nine, I came to New York and somebody who I admired and meant to the ends of the earth was Raul. I loved Raul.
45:56 Speaker 06 Oh, what a prince. The loveliest, sweetest, kindest man. Talented, used to sing opera to the children between takes. I mean, he'd, he'd do anything for you.
46:07 Alec Baldwin? He was special, wasn't he?
46:08 Speaker 06 Oh, he was a beauty.
46:09 Alec Baldwin? Who were some of the other leading men that you really, really thought, this was really a great battery?
46:17 Speaker 06 That's a difficult question. I have to go to Jack, you know.
46:20 Alec Baldwin? Yeah, of course.
46:21 Speaker 06 Just because the great ones provide.
46:25 Alec Baldwin? Yeah.
46:26 Speaker 06 And it's not necessarily because you notice how great they're being. It's just that they're there for you. Jack did a thing in Pritze's where I come out of the wedding scene and my father's been a real asshole to me and I'm crying and Jack offers me his handkerchief. Now, you know, an audience doesn't really know what that means at that time. But he gave me the opportunity to blow my nose really loud, you know? It's a comedy. That's what it is. It's somebody who you can work off with, who you have that kind of repartee. I had it with Cusack in The Grifters. It's, it's.
47:08 Alec Baldwin? It's nice when you play, when you play with someone that hits the ball back.
47:10 Speaker 06 Oh, absolutely. Bang.
47:12 Alec Baldwin? It's so much fun.
47:13 Speaker 06 Yeah.
47:14 Alec Baldwin? And Cusack, who is kind of an enigma to me. He falls into that category of these preternaturally talented men. Young, leading men. Brilliant actor while he was young.
47:28 Speaker 06 Yeah.
47:28 Alec Baldwin? You know, it's a great thing to be able to put the Rubik's Cube together while you still have the shine on you of youth and beauty. And he's a very, very talented guy who then all of a sudden, he doesn't look like he really wants to work very much.
47:39 Speaker 06 I don't know.
47:40 Alec Baldwin? Well, he doesn't, no, I'm not saying you would, but I think it's interesting to me how he did a row of great films and then it's kind of like he couldn't, it was almost like he couldn't find anything he liked.
47:48 Speaker 06 Yeah, he burned out a bit. I mean, he was amazing in that movie. I was completely mesmerized by him. I was mesmerized by Annette Bening, too, I have to say. When I went in to read, Martin Scorsese and Steven were producing the film as well as Steven was directing it. And it was my instinct that I should be a blonde. But I didn't put on a wig to go for the meeting. I thought that was a bit on the nose. So I just wore a very suggestive dress and, you know, went in and within the first 10 minutes, Steven said, what if, what if you were a blonde? And I thought, he gets it, he gets it, he gets me.
48:30 Alec Baldwin? Cool.
48:32 Alec Baldwin? Did your dad, because of his great, great career, did he have films that he was really the most proud of? Like, what did he feel was his best work?
48:40 Speaker 06 Well, I think he had a special regard for Treasure of Sierra Madre because of his dad. Because he brought his dad to an Academy Award. And I think it's like the best performance in movies, frankly. If you haven't seen that movie in a while and you re-look at that movie, it's magical, that performance. Like, and I think his direction to his father was, speak fast. Honest men speak fast.
49:15 Alec Baldwin? I'd sit there with my friends. Whenever we were huddled around in the wee hours, we sensed the party was over and you knew that men were gonna fall asleep. I turned to them, I'd say, "What's three times thirty-five thousand dollars? I'll bet you a hundred and five thousand dollars, you fall asleep before I do." I'd say. Bogart around the fire.
49:34 Speaker 06 Fabulous.
49:34 Alec Baldwin? One of the greatest movies ever made. You directed one movie, correct?
49:38 Speaker 06 Three.
49:39 Alec Baldwin? What was the first one you directed?
49:40 Speaker 06 It was called Bastard Out of Carolina.
49:42 Alec Baldwin? Right. What was it that propelled you to wanna get behind the camera, take on that job?
49:46 Speaker 06 Well, I'd always wanted to direct. And it so happened that the director fell out of the movie and I was offered it over a weekend, literally. And my agent knew that I was interested in directing something. We didn't quite know what it would be. And I'd read the script and I really liked it.
50:07 Alec Baldwin? Did you enjoy the process?
50:09 Speaker 06 I loved it.
50:09 Alec Baldwin? You did?
50:10 Speaker 06 Oh, I loved it.
50:11 Alec Baldwin? What about it?
50:13 Speaker 06 The first morning, I went to my trailer and I'm, my heart was beating and I was waiting and waiting and waiting for the knock on my door to call me to set. I didn't even understand that the director is on the set.
50:29 Alec Baldwin? Old habits.
50:29 Speaker 06 You'd think that I'd have known a little better with John Huston as a father. But that's how excited and out of my mind I was. The part I love best was working with the kids. Jenna Malone was a brilliant little actress and fun.
50:44 Alec Baldwin? Are you gonna direct another movie, you think?
50:46 Speaker 06 I, you know, if I found the right thing. In a way, you know, I'm lazy in that I want it to find me. But things do. I think when synergy works, that's how it works.
51:00 Alec Baldwin? Thanks for doing this.
51:01 Speaker 06 Oh, God bless you.
51:02 Alec Baldwin? You too.
51:02 Speaker 06 Thank you.
51:05 Alec Baldwin? Actress icon, Anjelica Huston. She has written a captivating memoir in two parts, A Story Lately Told and Watch Me. The first half covers her childhood and teenage years in Ireland and England, while the second half is a romp through her days on the modeling circuit and in Hollywood. Both are told with emotional depth and graceful humor, and I can't recommend them highly enough. I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is Here's the Thing.
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Previous The Fearless Robbie Kaplan Next Karina Canellakis - from Violinist to Conductor Page updated October 31, 2026 · transcript and summary are machine-generated