153: What Is Secure Attachment and How It Shows Up in Dating and Relationships

In the final episode of the Attachement Styles 101 series, we dive deep into the truth about secure attachment and how it plays a pivotal role in building resilient, healthy relationships. Sabrina Zohar breaks down the myths surrounding secure attachment, explaining why it’s not about being perfect or emotionless. Instead, it's about learning emotional regulation and bouncing back after challenges. Whether you’re just starting the journey or already on your path to emotional security, Sabrina gives actionable steps to start building a secure attachment style, including how to handle triggers and navigate relationship conflicts with resilience. Tune in to learn how you can build lasting emotional strength and trust in your relationships. Stuck After the Podcast? Master Implementation in 8 Weeks with Sabrina's Foundation Course HERE! If you've ever felt like you're too much, not enough, or always chasing validation in dating or relationships, the Self Love Course gives you the tools to rebuild your worth from the inside out HERE! Do you feel like your emotions run the show and react in ways you can’t control? Join the Nervous System 101: Navigating the Unknowns In Early Dating from Sabrina and Masha Kay HERE! Struggling with a breakup? Join the Make It Make Sense: Getting Through a Breakup course from Sabrina and Britt Frank HERE! Get Ad free HERE! Want to work with Sabrina? HERE! Get merch for The Sabrina Zohar Show HERE! Don't forget to follow Sabrina and The Sabrina Zohar Show on Instagram and Sabrina on TikTok! Video now available on YOUTUBE! Please support our sponsors! The first 1000 get a $100 credit toward their Function Health membership. Visit www.functionhealth.com/SABRINA or use gift code SABRINA100 at sign-up to own your health. This episode is sponsored by Betterhelp. Get 10% off your first month of Betterhelp HERE! Get $10 off and FREE shipping at Nutrafol HERE! Code is SABRINA Shop my favorite bras, underwear, and more at Skims HERE! Select "podcast" in the survey and be sure to select The Sabrina Zohar Show in the dropdown menu that follows. Disclaimer: The Sabrina Zohar Show, formerly known as Do The Work, is not affiliated with A. Z & associates LLC in any capacity. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 0:29Speaker 01

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.

• 0:59Sabrina Zohar?

  Hello, hello, hello. Welcome to another episode of the Sabrina Zohar Show. My name is Sabrina Zohar and I am your host. Hi, babies. Welcome back. Part four of the four-part series. I could do math. Part four of four. I'm so excited, babes. Today, we're talking about the gold standard, the thing that we're all chasing after: secure attachment. And we're going to get into it. We're going to answer all your questions. We're going to go down the line. And I just want to thank you guys, as always. Thank you so much for supporting, for everyone with your kind words. We are here to build a community of love and support. And if you have something to say, we're here for it. Just speak with some goddamn respect. And all I ask, guys, please, please, don't forget to rate and review the show. Leave a comment wherever you're listening, even if it's just a heart or an emoji. It helps us so much more. And thank you, guys. Thank you for showing up as you and allowing me to show up as me.

• 1:44Sabrina Zohar?

  So, without further ado, let's get right on into it, shall we? Hi, babies. Let's talk about it: secure attachment. Now, as always, guys, you know, I'm trying to get shorter intros because I want to keep us moving and grooving. But as you guys know, if you need anything, I am taking clients one-on-one. You can join one of the courses. The courses are amazing and they come with free group monthly coaching for every person that joins. And if you're not part of it, email us. We'll get you in the Telegram group. But it's fucking amazing. And I am so grateful to have you guys and to be in the community. But I want to let you guys know, if you want to ask a question, join the courses, get one of the free guides, ask a question, whatever you guys need, it's all there. And don't forget to send in your questions for In the Trenches because we got to keep that going. But welcome to the new room, guys. We're really starting to move and groove. And I'm feeling, I don't know.

• 2:28Sabrina Zohar?

  I sometimes I now want to take a moment to like, get a little personal because we go like right into like, let me educate you guys. And I'm like, but I also want to share a little bit about me. My journey with going towards being secure of like, you guys know I was the poster child for the anxious attachment version of a woman, right? And I really embodied that for years and didn't actually believe that I could do anything and get better. And I think now where I'm at as really feeling like I've earned the title of earned secure, which like, we're going to get to all of this. But I think the reality is as well as like, I still struggle. I still struggle all the time with my own self-worth, what comes up for me. Like I was just on TikTok Live and it's like, and I get thrown into the manosphere where all of a sudden you get these fucking misogynistic trolls that just want to attack you because they don't like what they're hearing. And of course that impacts me. And then I have to stop and say, well, wait a minute.

• 3:13Sabrina Zohar?

  Is it impacting me because there's validity to what they're saying or is it impacting me because it's reaffirming my core belief and it's actually hitting a wound that I've been trying to avoid this whole time? And so I think it's really important as we evolve and as we kind of go on. I also want to evolve with you guys. Like I said, we're going to do more friendship episodes. Like we're going to talk about colleagues. We're going to talk about parents. We're going to talk about things outside of just dating and relationships because the stuff happens. It evolves in your life, but don't worry. We're still going to talk about dating and relationships. Duh. But I'm just grateful for you guys. I'm excited about what the future has. The book is coming out in a year from now. It's a great life. We're getting it done and maybe a little over a year. But I'm just grateful for you guys. I'm really excited and I'm really, I feel more like I'm finding myself. And I think that's why I really am excited about this episode is because I wanted to talk to you guys about

• 3:58Sabrina Zohar?

  like, how do you find that secure version of yourself? And honestly, I think most of the things that you guys know about secure attachment is fucking wrong. I do. And it's not anybody's fault. It's because of what we're taught. And I think a lot of people think that secure people are like zen. They never get triggered. They're like these unicorns who could like glide through relationships without a care of the world. They're like naturally chill. They're emotionally stable and they're just like this relationship royalty who won this genetic lottery. But the truth is, I know securely attached people who have been cheated on, who have lost their fucking minds. I know. People who have gotten into screaming matches with their partners. I know secure people who have been sad, who have been anxious, who have made terrible dating choices and stayed way too long in some toxic relationships, right?

• 4:43Sabrina Zohar?

  That doesn't mean that they're not secure. The difference is, and the difference isn't, that they don't feel things deeply or make mistakes. That's not what secure is. The difference is what happens after they do it. Because secure attachment is not about being perfect. It's not. It's about being resilient. It's not about never falling down. It's about knowing how to get the fuck back up when you do. And it's definitely not this like magical state you're either born with or doomed to live without. That's not how secure attachment works, which is why today we're going to break down what secure attachment actually looks like in real life. The psychology of it, the brain science, dah dah dah dah dah, and why it works. And how to even build it, even if you started from the most chaotic foundation imaginable, you can work towards secure.

• 5:24Sabrina Zohar?

  And that I think is one of the bigger myths that I hear is that of like, oh, well, I can never get it. Or I have to work through every attachment style to get there. That's not the case. You can work towards secure no matter where you're at. But let's maybe start with what the fuck is it? Because I was her. I was. I used to believe. I remember I have this friend in New York and she's like one of the most beautiful people inside and out. Not just because she's a model and she's like just drop dead gorgeous. When you see her, you're like, oh, this is cool. This is cool. I'm secure with who I am. But she's just amazing. And she was like one of my closest friends when I lived there. And you know, you move, you kind of things happen, but still friends. She is probably the only person I ever knew that was like truly, like actually a secure attachment. I'll never forget, she went to go take an exam one day and she called me after and she goes,

• 6:08Sabrina Zohar?

  "I felt anxiety for the first time today." And I was like, "For the first time today?" I'm like, "Fuck dude, you're like 29." I was like, "What do you mean?" And she just looks at me and she goes, "How do you live with this?" I was like, "Great question." And the reason that she's secure isn't because it was always perfect and amazing, no. It's because she, when she would fall down, she bounced back up. And she wasn't like the avoidant going with like, "I can't trust anybody, nobody. Ah, I can only rely on myself, too scared," right? I get it. Or the anxious of like, "I'm gonna lose everybody. Oh my God, please come closer." Or the disorganized of, "I want you, I don't." The secure person, they still feel the emotions, they still feel, but they don't automatically associate it with their fucking work. And it doesn't have to mean that all of a sudden there's something wrong with them in all of this. So let's talk about what secure attachment actually is. And I'll be honest, the girl that I was talking about, she had breakups and relationships and breakups and relationships.

• 6:53Sabrina Zohar?

  But the core of it was she never allowed it to impact who she was. So again, what there's a lot of confusion and romanticizing what secure actually is. And I want to cut through the bullshit and cut through the fluff because that's why we're doing this foundation. So secure attachment typically develops when you have caregivers who are good enough, right? They're not perfect and that's kind of the point, but they're consistent. They repair when they mess up. I see my sister with my nephew will do that and she'll be like, hey, I'm so sorry. You're right. I shouldn't have said that to you. And I'm so sorry, Gray. Like, I know that hurt you and I apologize. Because then it learned, he learns, okay, I'm a human. I'm allowed to make mistakes, right? They help you make sense of your emotions. I have a friend who just had a baby recently. And when her daughter will fall, instead of it being like helicopter mom, she'll be like, whoopsie, and her kid will bounce up and she's like, whoopsie.

• 7:38Sabrina Zohar?

  And we'll always go and we're like, hey, great job. That was really good. It wasn't that you fell, it's that you got back up. When her daughter's sad, she'll be like, hey, that makes so much sense that you're sad. Right? She's like two or three at this point. And she'll say, and she'll be like, mama, like, I'm sad. Or I'm scared, or I don't like this, right? Or she's three or four, however old she is. I know I've heard her talk. I'm terrible. I'm a great friend, as you can tell. I just don't, I don't know age of kids. I'm gonna be honest, I don't have kids. So when I see them, I'm like, what is this, like nine or 10? Terrible. But when her kid has an emotion, she'll be like, hey, that makes total sense. Like, can we talk about it? And that way, the kid allows and understands of like, oh, so I'm allowed to have these emotions. You know, they're a safe harbor that you can return to. But they also explore and they encourage you to explore and to have exploration. That's what creates a nervous system that has learned

• 8:22Sabrina Zohar?

  that relationships are generally safe, that conflict can be worked through, and that I can handle big emotions without falling apart. That's really the, like, how you create a healthy and secure attachment is not from being perfect or two parents that like never fucked up. No, because your parents are gonna fuck up. I think there was, so I talk about this in the book briefly, but there's something called the still face experiment. And this has been replicated a million times over in science and in debt and all that stuff. But it was something that was done in the 70s. And what they did was that they had parents come Come in with their kids. And they had the moms making facial expressions and cooing, you know, and having like a moment with the kid. And then they told the parents all at the same time, stop, just sit stoic. No facial expressions. And you started to see how the different kids handled it.

• 9:05Sabrina Zohar?

  You started to see the anxious kids were screaming and yelling and getting irate and starting to. Then you saw the avoiding kids that maybe they go for their parents and they just shut down and they don't know what to do. You saw the kid that was going and stopping and breaking down and starting to cry, right? That disorganized. And then you saw maybe the more secure kids who might have been a little annoyed, but then they kind of just sit there and kind of wait, right? We saw different versions, right? There's so many different versions. And then they had, they instructed the parents to come back online and to have maybe more of a facial expression choice. And what that showed you was even something as small as your facial expressions, right? The, uh, they say that a parent needs to make eye contact with their kid 30% of the time in childhood up until like, I think age two. 30%, meaning like, how many times you've seen, right? When we're walking outside on the street and you see a parent like holding their kid,

• 9:50Sabrina Zohar?

  not ma- not even looking at them, they're on the phone, the kid's like screaming behind the parrot, they're desperately trying to get their attention, or the kid's just sitting there looking down, right? We can see it. That doesn't mean that the parents are bad people. That just means that maybe they didn't know. We had no idea, right? We think, yeah, give him the iPad. He might not know. So it's not about blaming or saying that anyone's a bad parent, right? Obviously those exist. But what's actually happening neurologically is that secure people have stronger neural pathways between their prefrontal cortex and the limbic system. So when something stressful happens, their thinking brain can stay online while their emotional brain is activated. Because maybe they learned that early on. But it's not just about like the brain regions. It's also about like the neurotransmitter balance. So secure attachment typically speaking involves healthy oxytocin production.

• 10:35Sabrina Zohar?

  So that is the bonding hormone. It's balanced dopamine, so you're not chasing highs of, or feeling like super flat, and good GABA functions. So what that means is that your brain's natural chill pill is functioning, right? So what does this actually look like in practice and not just mean ethereal? So as here is, let's say your partner doesn't text you back for six hours. So we have the anxious brain. They're losing interest. I need to text again. Why aren't they responding? Our relationship is over. I knew they didn't want me. All right, okay. That's where the brain goes first because it's quicker to go towards catastrophizing. The avoidant person might be like, whatever, I don't care. This proves relationships are annoying. I'll just, I'm not going to text them back. And then maybe you have the secure person that might say, that's unusual for them, but they might be busy or they're just dealing with something like, I'll check in once and see if they're okay. The secure person, right?

• 11:19Sabrina Zohar?

  When we start to look at the different responses, notice that the secure response isn't emotionless. There's still concern, huh? That's weird, I haven't heard from them. But it's not catastrophizing and it doesn't drive reactive behavior. That's what I mean by secure people. They still feel things. How many times when I, you know, you guys hear me, I'll consistently tell you guys like, your feelings are valid. Your feelings are valid. They are real, but they're not factual. That doesn't mean that we automatically have to act out on them. And when we think psychologically, like when we actually start to look at psychologically, what secure people have, secure people have what researchers call internal working models of relationships that are generally positive because they were modeled. So they expect people to be available and responsive most of the time.

• 12:01Sabrina Zohar?

  So when someone isn't, they don't just immediately assume the worst about this person or start to catastrophize or think that the relationship is over. That's not where they go. They will have good mentalization. And so that's typically speaking, that's the ability to understand that other people have eternal experiences that are separate from yours. So when your partner is grumpy, you think, hey, they're having a bad day. It doesn't mean that they hate me. They don't conflate. And oftentimes for people with secure, because they have a high sense of self and a high sense of others, they're not going to automatically go right for the worst case scenario because they were modeled growing up. That doesn't always have to mean worst case scenario. And that's a beautiful thing. I look at people with secure attachment and like, you motherfucker. Are you lucky? How beautiful is that? You had dealt those cards.

• 12:46Sabrina Zohar?

  But that doesn't mean that their parents were better than yours. Maybe their parents just had more of a secure upbringing themselves and weren't putting on to you. I even say like, I love my sister and her husband. And it's like, their kid has stuff, right? And it's not because they don't have two amazing parents. It's because maybe their parents, like they had some other things that worked. It was like the sleep stuff when my nephew was a kid. But that does not mean that they can't still work with my nephew and help him grow a secure attachment. That doesn't have to mean that there's something wrong with him. And so we just have to look, where did I learn this from?

• 13:15Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 13:43Sabrina Zohar?

  So I wanted to talk about like, what secure attachment is not. Because we see too much of this bullshit. Being emotionally flat or never getting upset, that's not somebody secure. That's somebody who's shutting down. Havoc, perfect relationships and no problems, not somebody secure. Secure people have conversations. Being the stable one who fixes everything, nope, they have boundaries. Never feeling jealous, anxious, or triggered, nope, because they're human. Being naturally calm. Some secure people are intense and quite passionate. Nice to fucking meet ya. Secure people, what they do is they feel the full range of emotion, like human emotions. The difference is they don't get hijacked by them for fucking weeks. They can feel anger without becoming super cruel. They can be scared without becoming super controlling. They can be sad without completely shutting down. And the reason that I wanted to bring this up is because I think for a lot of us, we'll put the, we'll attack ourselves if we're like,

• 14:27Sabrina Zohar?

  huh, a secure person wouldn't handle it like that. And it's like, well, we don't know that. We don't really know that. Maybe a secure person, they would still get upset because your feelings are valid. It just means that for me, and like this we're going to talk about, is like that earned secure. That just means that when I get activated or triggered, I know, wait a minute. Zohar, you need to come back to the present moment. Right, I've done enough work on myself to work through the insecurities and the abandonment wounds, but that doesn't mean that they don't still come up. That just means that now I have different tools of handling it. And it's also been nine years I've been doing this? Nine years? Or eight, nine years, something like that? Of consistency, of really showing up, of creating these new neural pathways, of allowing my brain to evolve and grow and not just stay in the same fucking place. So let's talk about what earned secure means.

• 15:11Sabrina Zohar?

  So here's the hopeful part. Because even if you didn't start out with a secure attachment, you can absolutely develop it. And psychologists call it earned secure. Because your brain remains neuroplastic throughout life. So that means that new experiences of safety and connection, they can re- Rewire, literally, they can rewire your attachment patterns. But the reason that like when Brit and I were on, when we start talking about and saying like, your brain stops growing after 28, what we mean is it stops developing after 28. After that, it's rewiring. So now imagine it's like you have a pavement that's been driven on for years. So now we have to repave. That's all. It doesn't mean that the original pavement is not going to be redone. We can't change that, but what we can do is we can grow on it. So there is actually a study done about 20% of adults actually have earned security.

• 15:55Sabrina Zohar?

  So they started insecure, but they built security through relationships, through therapy, through other corrective experiences, maybe that's somatic work, yada, yada. And research actually shows that earned security is often stronger than natural security because it's been consciously built. And that doesn't mean that people that are naturally secure don't have something amazing. But what it actually means is that we are people that have earned their security, we're a lot more, maybe in tune with our emotions in a different way. Because like I've met some people that are super secure and you're like, oh, you don't think about things like that because you weren't as conscious with the way that you built it. No one's better or worse. So I wanted to talk about how secure actually shows up in relationships. Because again, I think when we look at TikTok University and we see like my, you know, this is what a secure relationship looks like.

• 16:37Sabrina Zohar?

  And it's like, eh, but they show you the highlight reel, but they don't really show you the nitty gritty. And what it actually looks like when you're trying to date and build relationships, even with me and Ryan, right? Like when we were in the dating phase, securely attached people, like I think this might be a con- they can enjoy getting to know somebody without immediately deciding if they're the one or writing them off completely because they got an ick, right? They're not in a rush to divine the relationship, but they're also not afraid of commitment when it feels right, because that's part of independence and interdependence. So the people that are secure, they can handle uncertainty without spiraling. So if someone takes longer to text back, they're not like automatically assuming rejection and they don't want me and they don't like me. They can give people the benefit of the doubt. They can still doubt, right?

• 17:19Sabrina Zohar?

  Like they can still have their thoughts, but they're still paying attention to patterns. Because people that are more secure, they're not coming in like that's the biggest thing. When I first started dating Ryan, that's why I talk about the texting shit. Because it wasn't like if I had seen that a pattern throughout everything he does is- He doesn't want to communicate. He doesn't. Then I would never have continued. But instead of me looking and go, see, he doesn't like me. That's it. No, instead I had to stop and be like, Sabrina, you literally just met this guy. You don't know who he is. You don't know him that well. Maybe he's at work and sure enough, later I'd get a text from him like, hey, so sorry, didn't get this. I was working all day or I was in back to back meetings. Like, a lot of you guys, not you, that is specific, I'm saying proverbial you, don't believe in things like that. When no one's too busy and it's like, no, there are really people out there,

• 18:01Sabrina Zohar?

  crazy thought, that have a job that they can't be by their phone all the time. It happens. It happens. I have, I have my client, she was dating Navy SEALs and she was like, oh, we don't talk for the full day. She's like, they have to leave their phone in the car or they have to leave their phone in the locker. They can't. And so sometimes they'll text her in the morning, sometimes they won't. They'll get into work at 6 a.m. and they're like, she's even had it where they'll be like, hey, I just, I didn't want to wake you. I didn't want to say it. I just figured I'd talk to you later. That's someone's secure because somebody's secure isn't being like, oh my God, they're going to be mad at me if I don't text them. It's like, no, that person knows I spoke to them last night. I'm going to work today. If I have to text somebody good morning for them to feel secure about the relationship, then I think we have bigger fish to fry. That's all. That's all I'm saying. And when people are secure, what we start to see is you really start to notice the difference in their communication.

• 18:44Sabrina Zohar?

  Because people that are more secure or have earned secure can say like, hey, I felt hurt when you canceled last minute. Can we talk about what happened to you? Okay. Hey, I'm feeling overwhelmed. I need some space to process this. Can like, we revisit this tomorrow? Sure. I love spending time with you, but I also need my alone time and that's really important for me and my friends. Can we find a balance? Absolutely. Hey, I disagree with you on this, but I still love you. Sure. That's all ways that secure people show up because they address the issues directly but kindly. They're not attacking. They don't withdraw. They don't punish with silence. And that's also what I'm saying of like, when you have people that start to attack you for who you are, right? When I get those broken trolls on TikTok that are like, you look old for your age. And it's like, first of all, we all know that's not true. So get fucked. Go fucking kick rocks without shoes.

• 19:26Sabrina Zohar?

  But second of all, you know that somebody is losing the entire battle when they have to start talking about things that have nothing to do with what you're talking about. Right? Hooton Love Island was a great example. When you started cursing and calling Jeremiah names and everything, and it's like, that's not what this had to do. That didn't have to do with this. You just got angry, you started to attack, you started to get volatile. But secure attachment, like, when conflict happens, because it's gonna happen, because that's part of it, secure people stay present. And that's a really big thing. Their nervous system might stay activated. And that's still, I can get activated, but they don't go into full fight, flight, freeze, fawn mode. They're gonna take responsibility for their part without taking responsibility for everything. They can apologize because they genuinely know that they've messed up, and they can forgive without keeping the fucking score.

• 20:10Sabrina Zohar?

  That's why we talk about conflict not necessarily only being the only issue, it's also about repair. They see conflict as information about how to make the relationship work better, not as evidence that the relationship is doomed or that this person's going to leave them. That's why, like, Ryan and I, when we have conflict, we look at it, and you know, even the Gottmans, like, the Gottmans have talked about this, positive sentiment override, like, that's what John Gottman talks about. But they assume good intentions from their partner even during conflict, because when something goes wrong, they don't look at it and say, "We can't work this." They look at it and say, "We can work through this." Rather than like, "The relationship's over." And guys, I'm gonna be honest. Do you know what took me the longest? Was going to that. Was going to that. Because I used to be the epitome of the girl that, like, anything that would happen, I'd be like, "That's it, we're over. It's done, the relationship's done, they're done with me, they don't want me anymore."

• 20:55Sabrina Zohar?

  Because I always assumed that I was the problem, there was something wrong with me. So of course I was gonna go back into that phase. And even now, when Ryan and I have arguments, when we have disagreements, we'll try to understand each other, because part of a healthy and secure relationship and being secure within myself isn't that I need to be right, I'm not trying to prove my point, I'm not trying to get the last word in. I wanna understand my partner and come with curiosity and compassion so that we can move on from this, not that I can find another fucking reason that this won't work. Because what you go looking for, you will find. Trust me on that.

• 21:26Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you wanna run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 21:54Sabrina Zohar?

  Secure doesn't mean perfect. And somebody's secure has good emotional regulation skills. So when they're triggered, they can stop and say, "Hey, I need to calm down." But they communicate that. And they don't just pull a huda. They don't just disappear. They don't just explode. They don't just fucking go irate. Because the reality is, that's not appropriate. And secure people have something that's called flexible boundaries. And that's, I think, really important. They're not walls, but they're not fucking doors that are left wide open. They're gates. So they can let people in while also maintaining their sense of self. Because it's important to be able to find a balance. The thing with secure people is, they can say no without feeling guilt. And they can say yes without resentment. They don't need to elaborate explanations for their boundaries. "I'm not available for that" is a complete fucking sentence. And that's something that we need to learn. "I'm not available for that" is a complete fucking sentence.

• 22:39Sabrina Zohar?

  And you don't owe people an explanation. That's a trauma response. If I overexplain, if I tell you what's going on, then you'll understand. Then you'll see me. Because somewhere along the lines, maybe you were taught something different. And that is okay. But that doesn't mean that we now need to go into overexplaining. I have no problem, like, I'll set a boundary and be like, "What do I do on the fucking internet?" No, I don't answer emails for free because my time is valuable. End of story. Do I now need to go and be like, "Well, let me explain to you what I'm doing all day. Let me show you how many emails I..." No. The boundary is, if you want access to me, then this is how you get it. You don't, not everybody just gets full access to me. That wouldn't be me being healthy and secure. And the sweet spot that we see with secure people is independence and intimacy. Secure people can be deeply connected without losing themselves.

• 23:22Sabrina Zohar?

  Right? Me and Ryan, we're incredibly, like, we have independence, but we don't push each other away. I have my own life. I make sure that, like, I am staying true to myself. I still go to my Pilates classes. I still meet up with my friends. I still go to lunches, brunches, dinners. I go out with my friends. I go and visit my parents. I'll go and see my family alone. Because I know that independence is incredibly important. But I also know that intimacy and connection is really important. So, somebody's secure, they're gonna have their own friends, their own interests, their goals. They'll support your independence, too. And I fucking hope that they do. But the relationship enhances their life. It doesn't become their entire life. My mama has always said, "From the fucking get." You need to love yourself more than the need to be loved by other people. Because they're in addition to your life, not instead of. And when secure people communicate... Communicate during conflict, their brains are also doing something different.

• 24:05Sabrina Zohar?

  We have a part of our brain called the interior cingulate cortex. That helps them monitor for misunderstandings. So their insula keeps them aware of their internal state without being overwhelmed by it. And then they have their mirror neurons help them stay attuned to their partner's emotional state. It's literally about the way that the brain is also wired. And this isn't conscious, this is how their brains learn to operate in relationships. And that's a beautiful thing, and that's okay if you don't have that. When we're looking for someone secure, I'm not asking you for perfection. I'm asking, do they know how to like regulate their emotions? It doesn't mean that you can have an emotion, you can be sad, you can be angry, you can be pissed, you can be all of those things. But do you regulate your reaction to the emotions? Or are we constantly external, are we constantly shutting down? Do they know how to have conflict and repair?

• 24:50Sabrina Zohar?

  Do they know how to have a life but also include you in it? That's something that we need to look at. And the reality is like, secure people are actually really good at spotting inconsistency and manipulation because they're not fucking desperate for connection. They can walk away from someone who's not treating them well because they trust that other connections are possible. And they know that what's not for me is not going to stop what is for me. And they know that what's for me won't fucking pass me. Secure people understand, I don't need you in my life, I want you in my life. And if I want you in my life, that means it's under my control of how that looks. I can't control other people, I can only control myself. I can only control my actions, my emotions, my reactions, how I feel.

• 25:32Sabrina Zohar?

  I cannot control other people, but I can control who the fuck is allowed in my life. They don't try to fix or convince people. No, they don't try to force somebody to want them. If someone shows them through their actions that they're not available for a real connection, then secure people fucking believe them and they move on. They don't bet on potential and it's not any better. You can look at potential saying, wow, this person's in therapy, I can see the progress, this is great, we're on the right step. But that's it. And I, even for me, navigating healthy was foreign for me. When I first met Ryan, I didn't really understand. I'd never really been in a healthy and secure relationship, like, fully on. And so when Ryan wouldn't text me, instead of me jumping to conclusions, I got this. Okay. Even now, when Ryan and I get into a fight, I don't automatically, or like, an argument or a disagreement, or he says something that hurts me, or I say something that hurts

• 26:17Sabrina Zohar?

  him, I don't automatically go into like, that's it, the relationship is over. I'll stop and say, no, we can talk about this, because I know, after years and years and years of therapy and healing and having new people in my life, you hurt in relationships, but you also heal in relationships. And I know, as somebody who has earned their security, motherfucker, I earned this attachment, okay? That that doesn't mean I have to be perfect, that doesn't mean that I can't have emotions, but what that means is that I'm in control of them, they're not in control of me. And I'll have the conversations, because I'm not scared of finding out the truth. I'd rather know the truth than have to deal with somebody that's lying to me, or inauthentic, or bullshitting me. That's just the fucking reality. Let's talk about some myths, okay? I want to talk about these misconceptions that are actually preventing people from developing healthy and secure relationships.

• 27:01Sabrina Zohar?

  So the first one is that secure people don't get triggered. Complete fucking bullshit. Secure people get triggered all the time. The difference is that they don't stay triggered for weeks. And that's the big thing, is that, like, I even had it where Ryan and I, like, he might have forgotten something, and instead of me getting pissed off and holding it on and all that, no silent treatment, I said to him, hey, this really hurt my feelings, I really wanted to just share. Like, I remember Valentine's Day, when we first started dating, and he said, well, I don't care about Valentine's Day, and I said, well, I do. And I was like, it does mean something to me. Okay, I expressed myself. Then Valentine's Day rolled around, he didn't do fucking jack shit for it, nothing, didn't even send me a card, nothing, didn't even, I think he texted me, happy Valentine's, that was it. And instead of freaking out and all this, I talked to him, and I said, hey, I don't want to hold this grudge, but I'm really feeling that I wasn't seen or heard, I'm really upset that, you know, for you, it doesn't mean anything, but that doesn't mean

• 27:46Sabrina Zohar?

  it doesn't mean anything to me, and we, I wish we just could have talked about it, because I'm also in this relationship with you, it's not just your life. I didn't hide, I didn't deflect, I didn't attack him, I didn't call him names, I came with, this is what's bothering me, and here's what I need from you. And to this day, we have never had a problem with it, because we discussed it. We regulated, instead of me freaking out and screaming and breaking up with it, no. I took time for myself, I processed, I sat with myself, I really wanted to get curious, and then I addressed it with my partner. The second myth is that people that are, they're just naturally calm and even-tempered. Fucking wrong. Some secure people have really intense and passionate and dramatic. Secure isn't about personality, it's about your regulation, that's why I can be a lot of things. So the research is that secure attachment is about how you handle your emotions, not which emotions you have. So you can be a really highly sensitive person and still be securely attached because

• 28:31Sabrina Zohar?

  it's about, do I make it about me? Do I make, I'm angry, well, because I'm all these, eh, eh, eh, eh. Do I attach? No, I sit and I understand that I'm allowed to be angry, but what do I get to do with it? The next thing, that secure people don't have attachment wounds. Many securely attached people have experienced trauma, they've experienced abandonment, or potentially inconsistent caregiving, but the difference is that they've done the work to process it or have had corrective experiences that have helped them fucking heal. And that's where earned secure comes in, because sometimes going through difficult experiences and learning how to handle them actually makes you more secure than people who never have faced challenges. So it's okay either way. The next one, they're always emotionally available. No. Secure people have bad days, they have personal crises, they have times when they need to fucking focus on themselves. The difference is they communicate their limitations instead of just disappearing and becoming mean.

• 29:16Sabrina Zohar?

  So they might say like, hey, I'm going through something really difficult right now and I don't have the bandwidth for a heavy conversation. Can we revisit this on Friday? I just need a couple of days. Sure. The next one, they never choose the wrong partner. Yeah, they do. I know secure people that have been in relationships with narcissists, with addicts, with emotionally unavailable people. Security doesn't mean you're immune to bad choices, but it helps you leave faster when you realize that someone cannot meet you where the fuck you're at. Secure people don't sit there and try to build a building out of fucking ashes. They know that that plot of land needs to be remade, redone, re-excavated, if you will. They're not sitting there looking and crying over the spilled milk. They know that there's other cows out there that'll give them more milk. That's the difference. And that's why I wanted to say, it's not that there's something wrong with you. There's no difference between if you're an insecure or securely attached person besides

• 30:01Sabrina Zohar?

  some just childhood things that we need to look through. And then the last thing is that people that are secure are boring in relationships. And that, to me, might be the most dangerous one, because sometimes people avoid building security because they think it means that you're gonna lose passion or intensity. No. The most passionate, connected, sexually alive couples I know are really secure. When you're not spending all your fucking energy managing anxiety or protecting yourself, you have so much more bandwidth for pleasure, for play, to deeply connect with people. Oy! And I think these myths persist because they protect our insecure parts. If secure people are just naturally different, then, well, we don't have to do the hard work of changing it. If security is boring, then we could keep choosing chaos and calling it passion. But that's why I love attachment research. It shows that security is learned. It's exciting and it's available to anybody who actually wants to do the fucking work. Don't get trademarked on that.

• 30:47Speaker 01

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk-takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long-distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola. For everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.

• 31:17Sabrina Zohar?

  And another myth is that secure people don't need therapy. No, they do. And it's not because they're broken. It's because they value growth and self-awareness. They go to therapy sometimes as maintenance, like going to the gym, right? But it's just really for your emotional health. And guys, remember, your brain has neuroplasticity. Every time you have a new experience, that's why I say you hurt in relationships, but you also heal in relationships, because the key is repetition and consistency. And that's something that I really, really want you guys to remember, is that it's not like this island I'm never gonna get to. And so here's how you can actually build a secure attachment with specific practices that actually fucking work. The first one, I need you to learn your nervous system. That's why Masha and I have the Nervous System Course. In case any of you guys are curious, it teaches you about your nervous system and how to actually sit in the uncomfortable things. The Foundation Course is also accessible to self-love.

• 32:02Sabrina Zohar?

  All of this stuff is gonna help you. You can't regulate what you can't feel. And most people are so fucking disconnected from their bodies, they don't notice activation until they're completely overwhelmed. So, try this. I want you to set three random alarms on your phone each day, and when they go off, do a quick body scan. How fast is your heart rate beating? How's your breathing? Where do you feel the tension? I want you to rate that overall at activation 1 to 10. You're doing something that's called interoception. It's awareness of your internal state. And it's just even, the second thing, build the fucking pause. A secure attachment is all about having a pause between trigger and reaction. When you feel activated, instead of immediately texting, or calling, or reacting, this is part of the pause. Take five breaths. Inhale longer than you exhale. It activates your parasympathetic nervous system. Say to yourself, "I'm activated right now, and I'm gonna take a pause before responding.

• 32:47Sabrina Zohar?

  What story am I telling myself? What evidence do I have that this is true?" And then we can start to rewrite our internal dialogue. Because insecure attachment often comes with harsh internal voices. "Hello, I know I could do that." So instead of being like, "I'm so fucking dramatic and needy." Maybe you can try like, "I'm having a really strong emotional response because something important to me feels threatened." Okay. Instead of like, "I always choose the wrong people." Cut the bullshit. I'm learning to recognize what I need in relationships. This isn't just like positive thinking. You're literally rewiring your neural pathways through cognitive restructuring. And then we can practice secure communication. Start with low stakes. I want you to start with something that's small. I don't need you to go to your partner and start having conversations that scare you. So maybe it's about telling someone, like, "I need time to think about before I respond to this." Or, "I'm feeling really overwhelmed. I need support." "I love you, but I disagree with you."

• 33:32Sabrina Zohar?

  "Ooh, I made a mistake and I want to repair it." These are all ways that you can show up. And then now, we can rebuild your regulation toolkit. So then, you can look and see what techniques work for you. Like, for me, I love progressive muscle activation. Squeeze, squeeze, ah, release. Cold water on your wrists, especially. It activates the vagus nerve. Bilateral movement like walking. You know, you can even do, like, if you want to now think of some mental regulation, counting backwards from 100 by sevens. So that engages your prefrontal cortex. Naming through the 543. Five things you can see, four things you can hear, three things you can touch. Write your thoughts out to get them out of your head. We want to be able to tap into some of these tools. And for emotional regulation, call a friend when you're upset. Journal about why you're feeling this way. Move your body to move around this energy, especially that stagnant energy.

• 34:17Sabrina Zohar?

  And then something that's really important is finding secure models. Again, mirror neurons. You can literally catch emotions and behaviors from other people. So I need you to start to engage and hang out with people who can disagree without attacking or withdrawing, who stay calm, who take responsibility for their mistakes, who express needs directly without drama. And y'all, we need to address the fucking trauma. Especially if you have significant attachment trauma. This isn't just gonna go away. And maybe you might need a therapist, like EMDR for processing, or you might need some somatic therapy, or some IFS, some internal family systems. For the parts of you, that's why Sheila is so fucking amazing. In case you guys want to do parts work, Sheila is my coach, and I'm helping her grow her business. She's doing the coaching as well for the group coaching, so whatever you guys need.

• 34:59Sabrina Zohar?

  But attachment patterns, they change through corrective emotional experiences. And that's what researchers say. So every time someone shows up consistently for you, every time you handle conflict well, every time you regulate and you handle your emotions effectively, you're building new neural pathways. And that's why I'm saying, this shit isn't a quick fucking fix. It depends on your starting point. This could take years. It took me years. But the good news is, you'll start to feel more regulated and confident in relationships quickly once you begin to do the work. How do you know it's working? How do you know it's working? How do you know you're becoming secure? Okay, let's talk about it. Something that was big for me. You can feel upset without immediately needing to call somebody. You can disagree with someone without feeling that they're gonna fucking leave. You notice the stories before you start believing them completely. You can ask for what you need directly. You're not scared of saying no.

• 35:42Sabrina Zohar?

  Conflict feels workable instead of like it's a relationship ender. These are different things like, wow, I put in a minute. I put in a minute between the reaction and the response. That's fucking huge. I'm making progress. Think about the you last year. And I want you to tell me, how far have you come? You even come in far? Oh, well, then maybe that's where the work needs to be done.

• 36:00Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 36:28Sabrina Zohar?

  And I want you to start to notice when you're dating somebody secure. They're consistent in their communication. So here are the flags to look out for. They're consistent in their communication. They can handle their emotions without trying to fix them or take them personally. They address problems directly instead of letting them fucking build up. And they have their own life and interests outside of the relationship. They're not playing games. They're not sending you mixed signals. They are consistent. And the reality is if you're used to chaos in relationships, then secure is gonna fucking feel boring to you at first because there's no drama. There's no emotional roller coaster. There's no constant like uncertainty about where you stand. No. And that could actually be really triggering for people with insecure attachments because your brain might interpret the stability as a lack of passion or connection. Because growing up, that's all we knew. So of course, of course, your nervous system, mm. But if you're anxiously attached,

• 37:11Sabrina Zohar?

  we need to resist the urge to create drama just to feel connected. We gotta practice expressing our needs directly instead of hoping that they're gonna fucking guess. We have to not mistake their consistency for taking you for granted. And if you're avoidantly attached... Don't pull away just because they're available. Practice staying present when they want to talk about the relationship. And remember that their need for connection isn't the same as being fucking controlled. That's not controlling. They just want to stay connected. Because being someone with secure, it gives you the opportunity to be able to rewire this shit. And I love, that's why I'm saying like, again, you hurt in relationships, you heal in relationships. But remember, baby, they're not your fucking therapist. Don't expect them to fix your attachment issues or to tolerate unlimited chaos while you work on yourselves. And that's what pisses me off.

• 37:55Sabrina Zohar?

  This is like, well, if you don't accept me at my worst, you don't deserve me at my best. No, bitch, go to fucking therapy. Give people consistency that are secure. Direct communication so they don't have to fucking guess. Regulate your emotions. They can handle your feelings, but not constant crisis and mutual effort. They're not trying to convince someone to want them. But here's the things I'll tell you that people with secure attachment won't put up with. Emotional manipulation or game playing, ain't gonna fucking take it. Inconsistency in words versus actions, refusing to take responsibility for your fucking behavior, using their security as an excuse to not work on yourself, that'll be the quickest way that you will lose somebody who's really secure. All right, let's end it with a brief Q and A because I do want to make sure that we answer some of the questions that you guys asked. So someone asked, how secure do you have to be to be considered secure?

• 38:39Sabrina Zohar?

  There's no fucking scorecard, but the research shows 60 to 70% of your relationship interactions need to come from a secure place. So you don't just need to be perfect, okay? You need to be secure more often than not to be able to repair even when you're not feeling you can. So someone, does a secure person, attachment person not feel anxiety when first meeting someone? Of course they do. Of course they do. New people, meeting new people activates everyone's attachment systems. The difference is that they don't let anxiety drive their behavior. They can feel nervous and still show up authentically, right? That's part of the two conflicting thoughts. How does a secure person manage and communicate their triggers? So the first thing they'll do is they'll name it in real time. I'm feeling triggered right now and I need a few minutes to calm down. That's what I do with Ryan. They use regulation techniques, we talked about, right? They'll come back to address the underlying issue when they're not thinking clearly. And that's really big.

• 39:24Sabrina Zohar?

  For me, when I get a trigger, the first thing I want to do is like, whoa, how familiar does this feeling feel? Okay, you know what? I'm gonna sit with myself before I go to my partner. And that's the reality is like, secure people, they're not gonna try to fix or save people and they're not just gonna stay forever. That's also part of being secure. And you can become secure even if one person sets you off and makes you, reminds you of, you know, past hurt and things like that. That doesn't mean you haven't still built a secure pattern. You'll have tools to work through it. You'll have tools to work through it. Different types of people are going to trigger different parts of us, but that doesn't mean that you're not still working towards being secure. That doesn't mean that you're not still secure in other areas of your life. And maybe this is just one area that needs a little bit more finessing.

• 40:06Sabrina Zohar?

  So I personally, for me, I'm big on let's do the work to come back home to themselves because secure people aren't hypervigilant. So they're, they might miss red flags, but they're going to catch them eventually. They're eventually going to catch them because secure people handle things differently. They stay present. They focus on the issue, not on the person. They can take responsibility. They can see conflict as information rather than a threat. They repair quickly. They don't hold on to fucking grudges. And most importantly, they don't use conflict as evidence that the relationship is ending or doomed. So I wanted to really talk about just the realities of being secure. And what I wanted to leave you with is that securely attached isn't about reaching this like fucking perfection and nirvana state that you just like never feel scared or triggered or all of that.

• 40:50Sabrina Zohar?

  The reason in what we're doing to build security, it's about building resilience. It's about developing the capacity to feel your feelings without being hijacked by them. It's about trusting that you can handle whatever the fuck comes up in your relationships. That's the reality. Because the more secure you become, the less you need any particular relationship to work out. And paradoxically, that's exactly what makes you more attractive and more capable of deep connection is that you're not desperately clinging to someone. You're not running away from them. You can actually see them and love freely. So babies, if you're just starting, please know that this is something that you're going to have to learn. And you're going to have to learn that people aren't just going to leave you because you have needs or mistakes. And if you're avoidantly attached, welcome, baby. Security might feel like learning to trust that people won't consume you just because you let them close.

• 41:35Sabrina Zohar?

  And then for my disorganized babies, for my amalgamation, security might feel like learning that love doesn't have to be dangerous. That's it. And I want to just be real that secure attachment, it's not a personality that you're born with or without. It's a set of skills that you can develop and it's a way of being in a relationship that you can learn. Your brain's constantly changing. It's growing. It's evolving. And every moment, that's why I say you hurt in relationships, but you heal in relationships. Your friends, your family, this community, we're showing and we're teaching that safety is real. So this week, I want you to try one secure behavior. Maybe that's saying, I need to think about this. Right? Maybe that's instead of reacting immediately. Maybe it's expressing indeed directly instead of hoping somebody's going to guess. Maybe it's staying present while during a really difficult conversation, instead of shutting down.

• 42:18Sabrina Zohar?

  Start small, build slowly and trust the fucking process. Because baby, we need more people like you. We need more people that are invested, doing the work and want to show up. And I am here with you guys every fucking step. So guys, baby, please, please, don't forget, rate and review the show. And also too, one thing I didn't even mention is that people that have secure attachment, understand that vulnerability isn't weakness. That vulnerability is required to grow and have deep relationships. So don't be fucking scared about facing yourself, baby. That's sometimes the hardest part. You're not going to be judged by other people. I mean, if you are, fuck them, as long as you're not being judged by yourself. So guys, don't forget, rate and review the show. Please share it with all of your friends. Leave a comment if you haven't already. Join one of the courses if you need more. You could work with me.

• 43:02Sabrina Zohar?

  Whatever you guys need, everything is in the link in show notes. And I'm just grateful for you guys. Thank you so much for another fucking week. And thank you for allowing me to show up as me and you show up as you. Until next time, baby.

• 43:18Speaker 00

  This episode is brought to you by State Farm. Football has a play for just about everything. You can go deep, keep it on the ground, or draw up something nobody sees coming. And whether you want to run a flea flicker or the tush push, you need a plan to fit your unique situation. That's why State Farm takes the time to get to know you, so they can help personalize coverage for your life and budget. Now that's a solid game plan. Like a good neighbor, State Farm is there.

• 43:46Speaker 01

  Coca-Cola. For the big, for the small, the short, and the tall. Peacemakers, risk takers. For the optimists, pessimists. For long distance love. For introverts and extroverts. The thinkers and the doers. For old friends and new. Coca-Cola, for everyone. Pick up some Coca-Cola at a store near you.