#370 - “I Found the Proof That Ends the Moon Landing Debate” | Tim Dodd

Watch every episode ad-free & uncensored on Patreon: https://patreon.com/dannyjones Tim Dodd is the creator of @EverydayAstronaut educating everyday people on space travel, space exploration, rocket science and much more. Tim has interviewed the most notable figures in the space program including SpaceX’s Elon Musk, Former NASA Admin, Jim Bridenstine, Rocket Lab’s Peter Beck, Tom Markusic of Firefly, Andy Lapsa of Stoke Space, and many more. SPONSORS https://bloodflow7.com/danny - Hit the link & grab some BloodFlow7 today for 30% OFF. https://irestore.com/dannyjones - Use code DANNYJONES for exclusive savings on the iRestore Elite. https://hexclad.com/dannyjones - Find your forever cookware & get 10% off. https://amentara.com/go/dj - Use code DJ22 for 22% off. https://whiterabbitenergy.com/?ref=DJP - Use code DJP for 20% off EPISODE LINKS @EverydayAstronaut https://everydayastronaut.com FOLLOW DANNY JONES https://www.instagram.com/dannyjones https://twitter.com/jonesdanny OUTLINE 00:00 - The start of Everyday Astronaut 03:29 - Debunking the moon landing hoax 06:36 - Problems with Bart Sibrel's argument 08:08 - Getting to the moon without refueling 12:47 - The reusable rocket challenge 16:21 - Wernher von Bruan's refueling video 23:29 - Why we owe Nazis for rocket technology 30:31 - The upcoming Artemis II mission 37:30 - NASA's headquarters in Alabama 39:40 - Cost-plus contracting & SpaceX funding 41:37 - Boeing astronauts who got stuck in space 44:36 - How many satellites are in orbit 48:07 - Discovery of rocket science 53:00 - New rocket launch technologies 59:17 - Black budget propulsion technology 01:03:54 - Tim Taylor 01:10:33 - Neil Armstrong's expedition after the moon landing 01:13:48 - Best argument we DIDN'T go to the moon 01:16:45 - Explaining NASA's "erased" Apollo mission footage 01:25:46 - NASA's new administrator Jared Isaacman 01:31:16 - Elon Musk's plan for Mars & the moon 01:38:01 - The Van Allen Radiation Belts 01:46:43 - When humans will step foot on the moon again 01:51:45 - Watching a rocket launch in Kazakhstan 02:00:40 - Japanese billionaire buys ticket to fly around the moon 02:11:00 - What Russia & China are launching into space 02:14:56 - Discovery of Chernobyl fungus that eats radiation 02:21:31 - Why SpaceX is perpetually bankrupt 02:24:51 - Starship landing footage 02:31:42 - What Space Force is up to 02:37:18 - SpaceX is intentionally losing satellites 02:38:26 - OSIRIS-REx mission & asteroid space metal mining 02:44:46 - 3I/ATLAS 02:50:34 - AI is burying the truth 02:59:01 - Flat Earth & space mission conspiracies 03:00:51 - Jeff Bezos' Saturn V recovery mission 03:05:29 - Regenerative cooling on rocket boosters 03:09:34 - Why Artemis is going to the moon's south pole 03:14:06 - Mystery aircraft that deflected a missile 03:20:28 - Secrets astronauts are keeping from us 03:28:00 - Why the Apollo post-flight conference is not weird at all 03:36:01 - Debunking Bart Sibrel's "smoking gun" of moon landing hoax 03:42:01 - Inside the Apollo 11 lunar module 03:48:42 - The windows on Apollo 11 03:54:45 - Logistics of faking the moon landing Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:07Danny Jones?

  The first time I discovered you was when you made that video about addressing the whole moon landing conspiracy.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 0:14Danny Jones?

  You made the most incredible deep dive on all the points of the moon landing hoax, conspiracy, whatever you want to call it, that I've ever seen. And you address them all. You bring a lot of information to it and you make a very compelling case for every single argument. But before we get into all that, how, tell us, tell me your background and how you got into all this stuff, the rocketry stuff and everything you do with your YouTube channel.

• 0:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, uh, yeah, I run a YouTube channel called Everyday Astronaut and I've been doing that full time since 2017. Uh, before that, I was a professional photographer. So that's actually why I like a lot of this moon stuff. And when people have, uh, you know, topics about, you know, the shadows and the lighting and the stars and stuff, I'm always like, yes, this is like, this is in my ultimate wheelhouse, you know? But, uh, starting in 2017, I really just became obsessed with spaceflight. It actually all started, I bought like a old Russian spacesuit kind of as a joke in 2013 and started a art project. And that art project, a photography project was called Everyday Astronaut. And so it was like, I literally took the suit around the world. I mean, I hiked the Great Wall of China with the spacesuit and like took pictures of me. I like, I don't know what I was doing really with it, other than just I wanted to make something.

• 1:22Speaker 01

  This is kind of when Instagram was like, you know, everyone was trying to do some catchy Instagram thing. So that was kind of my like outlet as a professional photographer. I just wanted an art project, but I was also hiding, I was doing series where I was hiding a lot of like Easter eggs and facts about like spaceflight, you know? And especially like spaceflight history. And I just fell in love with it. I went from like, I like space and, you know, I grew up with like the Lego space shuttle and like a space shuttle poster on the wall kind of thing, but was way more into like cars and jets and music and whatever, you know? Not necessarily like a space kid, you know? I was never like. My goal in life is gonna, I'm gonna go to space, you know, that like, not like that. But all of a sudden, like during that, like 2013, 14 process, I just fell in love with the whole thing, just by doing the art project.

• 2:03Speaker 01

  And also watching at the time, like that's when SpaceX was trying to land their Falcon 9 booster for the first time. So I just started like watching some of that stuff and I was like, this is awesome. Like why, how can I learn more about this? And I was just, you know, I was going over like on Reddit all the time and I was reading all the blogs and watching every, like everything I could absorb and there wasn't a lot out there. And I'm like, I don't know, why don't I just make videos about this stuff? Cause it's really exciting and like, I feel like there's a lot of questions that I'm seeing asked often that I'm not getting good answers to. So I just started making videos about how rockets work and that just.

• 2:41Danny Jones?

  So you're self taught? You just kind of like learned all this stuff on your own?

• 2:44Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 2:45Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:46Speaker 01

  Yep. And it just kind of kept going, started going to rocket launches, you know, out here at the, the Cape over here in Florida and at Vandenberg. And then SpaceX started doing a lot of stuff at Starbase Texas, which is like very southern tip of Texas down by Brownsville in 2019. And I started covering all that stuff originally from a, a guy's rooftop, like from two and a half miles away during some of their first test flights. And then, uh, started, I mean, I've been out there for pretty much every single launch out there as well with their starship vehicle and things like that too. So.

• 3:14Danny Jones?

  And you're based in Iowa?

• 3:15Speaker 01

  Based in Iowa. Yep. Uh, but spent a lot of time in Texas. Texas is kind of home too. And, uh, and then just, yeah, wherever, wherever the rockets take me, rocket chaser, man.

• 3:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's wild, dude. So at, at what point did you decide to make that film addressing the whole moon landing thing?

• 3:36Speaker 01

  It was because of the Joe Rogan.

• 3:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, was it? Oh, wow.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. I, I watched it and I couldn't even get about 10 seconds into it before I was just like, wanted to just, oh, it was just so painful. Cause so many things like start on the false premise on the first, you know, first words out of his mouth of his like arguments, a lot of times were just like completely false premise. And then he builds a case.

• 4:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:01Speaker 01

  On that like initial false premise. And I'd be happy to get into some of that if you want, but that's why, and for me, I didn't want to take it as like. To be honest, like, a lot of these questions are completely sincere for a lot of people.

• 4:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:13Speaker 01

  You know, even my dad, who doesn't necessarily think we haven't been to the moon, but definitely is like, I don't get this, you know?

• 4:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:19Speaker 01

  Why, how this, or one of my best friends, uh, he, he's definitely asked me like almost every one of those questions, sincerely, and like, I think that's totally fair.

• 4:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:28Speaker 01

  That's a great place. That's a great curiosity for a person to have. So I wanted to take it as like, these are sincere questions people have. Let's give them sincere answers, not just like a refutile to conspiracy theories. Let's explain this stuff. Let's, let's go over the rocket science. Let's actually dive in so deep that you go, oh, I, I, I get this now, you know? And if you get all the way deep enough, like it, it becomes beautiful and you really start to appreciate a lot of the things that had to be considered.

• 4:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Uh, for the Apollo program and, and for me in general, I, I just find that a lot more fun and, and exciting even.

• 5:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 5:03Speaker 01

  Uh, than, than the conspiracy theories.

• 5:05Danny Jones?

  So for me, I'm not, I, I, I'm, my current position is I'm not convinced we didn't go. And I'm not fully convinced we went. I'm a little bit on the fence here.

• 5:17Speaker 01

  That's a great place to be.

• 5:18Danny Jones?

  I kinda, I, I understand, like, the biggest thing for me is like, the context of the whole Cold War is when the government was lying through his teeth more than any time in history. It's when we did all the crazy conspiracy theories, Gulf of Tonkin, Gulf, Gulf of Tonkin, Bay of Pigs, Kennedy, you name it. And went to the moon right in the middle of all that. Wow. Um, you know, at the same time, I get it from the, from the perspective of the space race and wanting just to put together this great spectacle for humanity to elevate America on the world stage and portray us as better than everyone else. And it was really important for us to do that. And it was worth risking human lives to do that for the,

• 6:04Danny Jones?

  just accomplishing the feat of getting human beings on the moon. And to why the question is like, why haven't we been back? Well, it makes sense. You wouldn't want to risk more lives. We already did it, number one. And number two, robots can do just as good of a job as human beings can do. So you might as well just send robots there. It'll be cheaper. It'll be safer. And, um, you know, we don't need to do it again until it's really, really easy.

• 6:29Speaker 01

  Till it's easy and inexpensive is the other big factor.

• 6:32Danny Jones?

  So that makes sense to me. Um. So that's, that's kind of, kind of why I'm on the fence and I'm not fully convinced by all of Bart's points. Bart did bring a lot of, a lot of evidence to the table that is, it's kind of impossible to prove because it's like some things that he says, oh, I saw this on Fox News 15 years ago and you try to pull up the source and then there's nothing there.

• 6:54Speaker 01

  Right. Exactly.

• 6:55Danny Jones?

  But in the shadows, you also did a very good job of pointing out, you know, the truth about the shadows and Steve actually is a cinematographer, not, not, not a 12 time award winning cinematographer.

• 7:08Speaker 01

  Dude, I wanted so bad just to be like, what awards, man? Like, let's see, like, oh, I love, one of the things that he says often is like, I received a million dollars and it took me seven years to make this documentary as he's like a proud point. A million dollars to produce his video I produced in nine months, a two and a half hour video for zero dollars. Like, where did this money come from? Why? Like, well, a million dollars is a good budget for a, for a film like, a film like that. Like, he uses that as a, as a, look at me. And it's like, oh, that's not.

• 7:42Danny Jones?

  Well, yeah, but you have to be able to look through those quirks and try to find the reason in, in some of the stuff that he's bringing to the table. And I, I try to, I try to peel back that onion as much as I can and try to unbiased myself when it comes to this stuff and you know, uh, that's why you're here. So, yeah. Um, convince me we went to the moon.

• 8:03Speaker 01

  Yeah. Okay. I'll be, I'd be happy to. Where, where do you want to start? Where do you want to start?

• 8:07Danny Jones?

  I think, I think my biggest thing when it comes to the, what Bart brought to the table was the video, uh, that Von Braun did for Walt Disney when they put together those films and he's talking about the Saturn V rocket. And he says, our biggest problem with getting to the moon is we would need to refuel in Earth orbit to be able to get into lunar orbit, right? And, um,

• 8:35Danny Jones?

  That is what boggles my mind. That combined with the other interviews of astronauts, and I think he says Elon Musk, even though I know I've never seen it. I think it was in an article where he-

• 8:45Speaker 01

  No, it's definitely Elon, yeah.

• 8:47Danny Jones?

  Elon says that they need to figure out, they need to refuel a bunch of times to get-

• 8:50Speaker 01

  12 to 15 times.

• 8:51Danny Jones?

  So, so what makes the Saturn V so magical-

• 8:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:57Danny Jones?

  -that it doesn't need to refuel and that it can get there?

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, let's start off. So, a lot of the things like when you see, you know, that clip of, of the Walt Disney clip with Von Braun was, that was, I think, 1958? 19, like way before-

• 9:11Danny Jones?

  About 10 years before, 10 to 12 years.

• 9:13Speaker 01

  Way before they had even decided that, that was talking about doing things like direct descent, so not doing the moon orbital rendezvous where they leave, you know, they have the lunar lander.

• 9:21Danny Jones?

  Why don't you find the clip?

• 9:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'd be curious on the exact date because it's, and the vehicle that he shows on screen is this massive vehicle that's, that's total, it looks more like Starship, frankly, where you have this recoverable upper stage. You know, the idea is if you're reusing hardware, you're expending some of your payload potential in order to be able to reuse the hardware, right? And the Saturn V basically was like, well, let's just throw it all away, right? And including like, you know, let's talk about first the Saturn V. The Saturn V, you know, Wade, I'll use, I have to use kilograms, sorry, and-

• 9:53Danny Jones?

  No problem.

• 9:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. It was about 2.2800 kilo, tons, so 2,800,000 tons, or 2,900,000 tons at liftoff, sorry, kilograms at liftoff. So, 2,900,000 kilograms at liftoff. What ended up landing on the moon, by the time the descent stage had used a propellant to slow down, out of lunar orbit, has to slow down, which lowers its orbit, and that orbit ends up intersecting the moon. It keeps slowing down, keeps slowing down, keeps, so it don't smash into the moon.

• 10:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  You burn through about eight tons of propellant. It was 15 tons at, at the start of its burn, and it goes through eight tons. So, by the time it lands on the moon, it's roughly, it's, I think it's seven or eight tons. I think it's about seven tons that lands on the moon.

• 10:37Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 10:38Speaker 01

  So, 7,000 kilograms out of 20, not, 2,900,000 kilograms, right? So, when you do that equation, you're talking about a quarter of a percent of mass that was lifting off from Earth actually touched down on the moon. That's not much, you know, less than 1% of what took off mass wise actually landed on the moon. That is insignificant. What SpaceX is trying to do, they're trying to reverse this because right now SpaceX is NASA's lunar lander. They're one of two. There's Blue Origin and there's SpaceX. They're both contracted for the human landing system to be able to land humans on the moon. And instead of, hey, let's send this $4 billion rocket and only get 0.25% of its mass onto the moon. What if instead of throwing it

• 11:22Speaker 01

  all away, we actually got it up into orbit? This thing is huge. It's 100 tons dry, at least 100 tons. So 100,000 kilograms dry. Massive. Like how much bigger than the Saturn V? So the Saturn, so just the dry mass alone. So the Saturn V alone was 2.8, we'll say 2,800 tons. Starship is about 5,000 tons when it's fully fueled. So it's over twice as heavy. And so it has twice as much propellant, which means it has twice as much potential. However, they're reusing, they're planning to reuse everything. There's only two stages. The booster is reused and famously gets caught by the launch tower. So they can like use as they don't even have to put landing legs on the thing. They're trying to strip all the mass down. So they're trying to get it so they can flip this equation. So instead

• 12:06Speaker 01

  of eight tons landing on the moon, they're talking about not only is the dry mass of the vehicle 100 tons, so already a lot more, then it has a need, it needs about 200 tons of propellant to land with it to be able to get it back off the moon. So we're talking about 300 tons landed on the moon. 300 tons, that's 300,000 kilograms. That is so much mass on the moon. I mean, that's like, we're, you know, we're talking 20 fold, 200 fold, 20, a lot more than what the Apollo program. And not only that, it's about 100 times the internal volume. So this- And why so much bigger? Like, why does it have to be that much bigger? 21st century, baby. We're, we're, we're dealing, if, if the only cost is fuel, if,

• 12:48Speaker 01

  if you're reusing your hardware, you're only expending fuel, they can do this. They're, they only got $3 billion to do this. That's like, nothing, you know, and the Apollo program is almost $300 billion. Right. So to land Starship multiple times on the moon, they were contracted for only $3 billion. Whoa. So we're talking about just, so when people get frustrated that why don't we go back to the moon? Because it takes that kind of money initially, until the technology now is caught up to where we can make it sustainable. We can do it, and not only can we do it better, bigger, we can do it way cheaper. And it's just a totally, totally different equation now, because now instead of, you know, that small mass fraction of your payload getting on the moon,

• 13:31Speaker 01

  now you can cheat the system because you can refuel it in space and then get that off to the moon. You can land way bigger. I mean, again, the internal volume is something like 600 cubic meters of volume. And that's, that's about half or a little more than half the internal volume of a 747. So like, imagine landing half of a 747 on the moon. Right. If your, so your crew has these like luxurious, you know, cabins almost, like it's, it's almost a condominium in space. And, you know, and that's versus, it was only like six and a half, I think, cubic meters is what the Apollo crew had. So they had like a tent, you know, they had a canoe versus a cruise ship, you know, it's like, we're talking so different. And, and so that's when Elon's saying, you know, we need 12 to 15 refueling because we're not doing Apollo again.

• 14:16Speaker 01

  We've done Apollo. In fact, there were three Apollo missions that were canceled that the hardware had been built already. That's how much the public was like, eh, been there, done that. Right. We've been there. Why do we, why are we still wasting money on this moon thing? Like, that was the sentiment. And again, kind of because of the Cold War and Vietnam and, you know, civil rights movements, all these things. People were just like, they saw that, like, you know, the sentiment was why are we wasting our time and money on this now? Right. And so Apollo 18, 19, 20 had the hardware, had the crews, were ready to fly and got canceled. Because of the lack of public and congressional support.

• 14:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 14:54Speaker 01

  So like the conspiracy really isn't like, oh, we couldn't go back there. It's just, it costs a lot of money. You know, NASA's budget was a lot more than it is now to be able to do this in the first place. And at some point, people were just going, eh, I'd rather not.

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• 16:16Speaker 01

  We're about two weeks away.

• 16:17Danny Jones?

  Two weeks?

• 16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, as early as February 6th.

• 16:21Danny Jones?

  So, okay, Steve found the Von Braun video. Is this the one? Does it say the year?

• 16:25Speaker 02

  Uh, this is it.

• 16:27Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 16:27Speaker 02

  This is one that Bart sent me.

• 16:29Danny Jones?

  Okay. You can actually find it on YouTube and it says the year. I found it on YouTube before.

• 16:35Speaker 01

  Or you can go to subrell.com.

• 16:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, God. All right, play it.

• 16:40Speaker 03

  Here to reveal a plan for a trip around the moon is the Chief of the Guided Missile Development at the United States Army's Redstone Arsenal, Dr. Werner Von Braun.

• 16:50Danny Jones?

  Right there, Redstone Arsenal, it's not even NASA.

• 16:52Speaker 03

  A voyage around the moon must be made in two phases.

• 16:55Danny Jones?

  See the rocket next to it?

• 16:56Speaker 03

  A rocket ship taking off from the Earth's surface will use almost all the fuel it can carry just to attain a speed great enough to balance the pull of gravity.

• 17:07Speaker 03

  Unpowered, it will then keep circling the Earth in an orbit outside of the atmosphere. This is the first phase. However, if we can refuel the ship in this orbit with fuel brought up by cargo rocket ships, it can set out on the second phase, the trip around the moon and back.

• 17:27Speaker 01

  He's describing Starship exactly. That's exactly what Starship is trying to do.

• 17:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 17:32Speaker 01

  And the reason why, and even today it's criticized as being too technically challenging because they're trying to, they have to rely on two unproven technologies so far. Those technologies are orbital refueling. No one's ever transferred that much propellant. And we're talking about thousands of tons, like a thousand tons of propellant. Cryogenic, so you have liquid methane, liquid oxygen needing to be transferred from a depot onto this moon landing vehicle. That's technology number one. The other one, in order to even be able to refuel the depot and get the depot, you have to have this rapid reusability thing nailed down. They have to be able to land a rocket, fill it up just like an airplane and take back off again. These are huge, the biggest engineering challenges ever. The space shuttle tried to, you know, incorporate some of the reusability because it's an

• 18:16Speaker 01

  obvious thing. Like, why are we throwing away billions of dollars of hardware? Why aren't we reusing this stuff?

• 18:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 18:22Speaker 01

  Well, the smartest minds in the world have always wanted that. Werner von Braun wanted that. It's extremely hard. And even with 21st technol- 21st century technology, computing, you know, material science, all of these things, it's still a huge, that's still the ultimate, you know, the holy grail of spaceflight is reuse and actually being able to reuse your rockets, just put fuel back in them and take back off.

• 18:44Danny Jones?

  So this video of von Braun, he is, he's talking about a reusable rocket?

• 18:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, you see even the top would look like a space plane. The top of it literally has wings and it's like a space shuttle. Cause the idea would be reuse this whole vehicle.

• 18:57Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 18:58Speaker 01

  Or at least reuse the upper stage. So that's, and that was the convention is like, this shouldn't be that hard, right? But this is before anyone had ever launched a human into orbit.

• 19:08Danny Jones?

  How would they shoot, how would they?

• 19:11Danny Jones?

  conceive of back then retrieving that rocket they shot off to the frickin moon.

• 19:17Speaker 01

  So again, notice how it literally looks like a plane on top.

• 19:20Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Convention.

• 19:22Danny Jones?

  I see. So that thing jettisons off.

• 19:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, that'd be the upper stage. Yep. And this is, this was the convention before, you know, I don't know if we have a year on this yet.

• 19:30Danny Jones?

  And then the bottom part, what happens to the bottom part? That's just gone?

• 19:32Speaker 01

  That's probably just gone for this. But you know, the idea of reusability has been kind of an inherent, why? No one wants to throw rockets away. It's just really, really hard to not throw them away.

• 19:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, exactly.

• 19:43Speaker 01

  And that's been like the key, you know, the, the, actually the key to SpaceX's success is this thing called G-fold. It's a way to be able to land rockets. I mean, that's one of their keys to success is.

• 19:53Danny Jones?

  G-fold?

• 19:54Speaker 01

  It's this algorithm that basically allows them to know exactly, the rocket knows exactly when to light the engines to be a perfectly, you know, you've seen the Falcon nine land.

• 20:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 20:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, where it's like.

• 20:04Danny Jones?

  It's insane.

• 20:04Speaker 01

  Screaming in last second, Lysit engines, what feels like way too late and then comes down and lands perfectly. And by the way, do you know how many times they've landed a Falcon nine now?

• 20:13Danny Jones?

  No.

• 20:13Speaker 01

  Just take a wild guess.

• 20:19Danny Jones?

  A hundred.

• 20:20Speaker 01

  I think they're at over five fifty or five.

• 20:24Danny Jones?

  What? It's five hundred and eighty?

• 20:26Speaker 01

  About every two to three days now.

• 20:29Danny Jones?

  Where do they land?

• 20:30Speaker 01

  Most of them land out on drone ships, like five, six hundred kilometers down range. Some of them, if they're light enough payloads.

• 20:37Danny Jones?

  Drone ships?

• 20:39Speaker 01

  Yeah, they have these big, they're called autonomous spaceport drone ships is what they call ASDS. And there we go, five hundred and forty seven times.

• 20:48Danny Jones?

  Six times, ninety seven percent success rate.

• 20:52Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this has become completely like, or like absolutely routine for SpaceX. They have mastered landing and reusing the booster of their Falcon nine rocket. So if they're light enough payload, they'll be able to, they can land them, you know, or light enough payload or not far enough, like not far destination, like just Leo. They can land them back here, like right back where they took off.

• 21:14Danny Jones?

  The booster.

• 21:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, the booster. And otherwise, like when they're doing their Starlink missions, which is like ninety percent of their launches. Those ones, just so they can get the most out of the booster, they land them on these floating, they're like a football field sized platform. They land them and then they tow them back in. So just constantly sending these things out to catch them because then, you know, they can follow the trajectory. So they can let go of the booster, let's go to the second stage, second stage goes off into orbit. The booster basically coasts and follows its ballistic trajectory and they more or less put the drone ship where it's going to fall. And then it guides itself with these grid fins.

• 21:47Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 21:48Speaker 01

  And then they need to be able to know exactly, you know, the precise time to be able to, how to guide like a guided, it's a giant guided missile. This thing's 15 stories tall, weighs 20 tons even empty. And it's coming back down and has to light its engines at the perfect moment to be able to preserve and use as little fuel as possible. If you light them too, and the crazy thing is, the thrust weight, it has nine Merlin engines on the Falcon 9, that's why it's called Falcon 9. And even with one engine at its minimum throttle setting, which is 40% throttle, 38% ish, 40%, even at that minimum throttle, if it, it can't hover, has too much thrust to hover. So picture this, so picture it coming back in and it lights its engine. Let's say it lights its engine five seconds too early. It'll stop above the ground and because it can't go any lower throttle, it'll actually start going back up.

• 22:33Danny Jones?

  Just with one engine?

• 22:34Speaker 01

  Just with one engine at 40%.

• 22:37Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 22:37Speaker 01

  So them trying to master this, like they have, proves that they have this thing nailed down, right? So they have, it's been so game changing that it's, it's taken, so just literally last, this November, Blue Origin was the second company to land an orbital class booster. Almost 10 months to the, or 10 years to the day since SpaceX first did it. That's how far ahead SpaceX has been with landing and reusing rockets. They were 10 years ahead of their next closest competitor.

• 23:10Danny Jones?

  That's bonkers, dude.

• 23:11Speaker 01

  So, so everyone wants this. Everyone wants to reuse their rockets because why would you build, you know, millions of dollars of hardware, billions of dollars of hardware? And then just throw it away. So 1955.

• 23:22Danny Jones?

  So it's 14 years?

• 23:23Speaker 01

  We hadn't even put anything in orbit yet at this time.

• 23:27Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 23:27Speaker 01

  When he's describing this.

• 23:29Danny Jones?

  How crazy is it that NASA by the mid 1960s was basically a cocktail of former SS officers, occultists and Freemasons?

• 23:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah.

• 23:42Danny Jones?

  And he, this guy was the face of NASA.

• 23:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, he was. Yeah.

• 23:46Danny Jones?

  Which is nuts.

• 23:47Speaker 01

  I mean, we're fortunate that Operation Paperclip allowed us to get some of the best engineers in the world at the time, which was, which were Nazis. The Nazis had mastered rockets. Rockets are

• 23:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 23:59Speaker 01

  a really

• 24:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 24:00Speaker 01

  hard thing to master and they developed liquid engines that no one else had developed yet. And so for us, like to be able to get that data back from them, you know, and, and bring them over here, we literally, the first thing that took anything into space for the US was literally based on the, on the V2 missile that the Nazis built.

• 24:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 24:18Speaker 01

  We call it the Redstone Rocket.

• 24:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 24:20Speaker 01

  And put some red, white and blue America on it, but for all intents and purposes, it's a V2.

• 24:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 24:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 24:27Danny Jones?

  So this guy was running fucking concentration camps with, and having Jews build these rockets and like hanging the slowest ones from caves from the ceilings of these warehouses. And then, you know, a couple of years later, he's in the US running NASA. It's just crazy, dude.

• 24:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's some very, very dark truths in history to the start of the his space program, really. Yeah.

• 24:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 24:50Speaker 01

  And I mean, same with on the Soviet side, you know, a lot of these guys, a lot of the people building those rockets.

• 24:54Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 24:54Speaker 01

  Themselves even spent time in the Gulag. Like, I mean, it was, it was a, yeah, desperate times, I would say. And this was a leading technology that imagine that, that high ground of space of, you know, imagine like if you have a cannonball or something, you can maybe launch it 100 miles or something, right?

• 25:14Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 25:14Speaker 01

  Cool. And like, it's not very accurate. So you might accidentally, you know, run over a village, but the

• 25:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 25:20Speaker 01

  The Nazis were able to develop the V1 and then the V2 where they could bomb, you know, hundreds of miles quite accurately and actually hit targets undetected. You couldn't see, by the time you saw it, it's too late. You know, you're done. You have no defense against this thing.

• 25:34Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 25:35Speaker 01

  Imagine that kind of power to be able to, you know, scare your enemies with that. And soon as you couple that then with the nuclear warhead. Game over. And that's what the US did. They they needed that, you know, we felt like we needed that power to be able to have, because we had to fly a nuclear bomb, two nuclear bombs over to Japan.

• 25:53Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 25:54Speaker 01

  You know, we had to fly in airspace. They could have been intercepted and shot down. And who knows that history?

• 25:59Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 25:59Speaker 01

  Putting that on a rocket that was unshootable, downable, and undetectable until it's literally, oh crap, done, you know? So that's kind of what the the whole thing started was just purely as a as a arms race.

• 26:12Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes. And then we had Jean von Neumann, who like one of the most genius mathematical minds in history was used to calculate the exact altitude they needed to detonate fat man and little boy to cause the most catastrophe and kill the most people.

• 26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, dark. That's the Cold War.

• 26:31Danny Jones?

  Really, really, really dark.

• 26:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, really sad. I mean, that's that's the part like, I mean, to be completely frank, I rarely do think about that kind of stuff because my I'm in love with the exploration side of things. I'm in love with with humans going and exploring. And I really do think it's a uniting thing. I really do think even when I see, you know, China right now is pushing to get to the moon by nineteen, by twenty thirty, like that's their that's their landing target right now. It's twenty thirty, China's going to have humans on the moon. I love that. Let's go. Let's get, let's do it. Let's let's get a new race going. This is exciting. This is tangible stuff. And so I don't know, I I focus on that stuff. And I did, before I forget too, before we totally move off of the von Braun, that video from nineteen

• 27:16Speaker 01

  fifty five and other things. The the other one that that is quoted a lot was that book that he wrote. I think it was around the same time, nineteen fifty two. I actually do have

• 27:25Danny Jones?

  Bart quoted his book.

• 27:26Speaker 01

  Or his quote, and he says he has it. I have it as well. I bought that book.

• 27:29Danny Jones?

  I looked it up and I couldn't find it.

• 27:31Speaker 01

  It's an old, I should have brought it with me. I really, I have it all.

• 27:33Danny Jones?

  What was the name of it?

• 27:35Speaker 01

  Great question.

• 27:36Danny Jones?

  Just search just search von Braun's books. We'll see.

• 27:38Speaker 01

  Actually, it might have been nineteen forty nine or nineteen, like, it was very early on. And the if you read just even a paragraph before the one that Bart quotes, he's talking about trying to land bulldozers on the moon. It's um, none of those yet.

• 27:54Danny Jones?

  Conquest of the moon?

• 27:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, or first men on the moon nineteen sixty, I think. Or yeah, or maybe conquest of the moon, one of those two. But

• 28:03Danny Jones?

  First men to the moon nineteen sixty.

• 28:06Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 28:07Danny Jones?

  God, he wrote so many books.

• 28:08Speaker 01

  He wrote a lot. But the, uh, he's talking about trying to get like excavators, bulldozers, all these things on a direct ascent to the moon. So he's talking about literally launching, staging, and then landing without like another staging, a rendezvous and all these things. So he's talking about trying to land like a thousand tons on the moon or something. Again, very Starship-esque. Cause if you kind of break it down to its roots, that's, and it's talking about colonizing the moon. He's talking about,

• 28:32Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 28:32Speaker 01

  you know, way bigger things. What we ended up doing is basically trying to do the path of least resistance. And that ended up still at the time being building by far the largest rocket that had ever been built at the time, the Saturn V, by far the most powerful rocket, the most ambitious thing ever built at the time. And now, you know, if we were to do that again, we'd be like, well, why, we're just repeating 1960s technology. So we're trying to do it today in a sustainable way, using 21st century technology, and most importantly, trying to do it where it could potentially be sustainable and the only cost is the propellant.

• 29:03Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 29:03Speaker 01

  The only real cost.

• 29:05Danny Jones?

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• 30:29Danny Jones?

  And, okay, so back to this Artemis mission. So are they, how many times are they gonna have to refuel this thing?

• 30:37Speaker 01

  So Artemis two, which is what's flying on February sixth.

• 30:39Danny Jones?

  In two weeks.

• 30:40Speaker 01

  In two weeks is just, uh, it's only, so they're, they're splitting it up into two things now. Instead of putting the lunar lander on the same rocket like Saturn five did. They're just sending up the crew capsule. This crew capsule is bigger, it's about 50% bigger, has a toilet, which is something the Apollo program did not have. They had to use bags, gross.

• 30:58Danny Jones?

  They really?

• 30:59Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 30:59Danny Jones?

  I never even thought about that.

• 31:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:01Danny Jones?

  But he had room for to do communion when he got there.

• 31:05Danny Jones?

  Bring his chalice.

• 31:05Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Gotta stick to those traditions, baby. But the, uh.

• 31:10Danny Jones?

  Damn Freemasons.

• 31:12Speaker 01

  But the Artemis, so the Orion capsules, what the Artemis program is using instead of the Apollo capsules, about 50% bigger. That launches on its own rocket called SLS. Now, there's a lot of, uh, people not stoked on that rocket and that vehicle because it's insanely expensive. And it's just like caught up in all the bureaucracy because basically NASA was congressionally mandated to use as much space shuttle hardware as possible. Like literally, when I say space shuttle hardware, I mean, like, they're literally reusing the engines that flew on the space shuttle.

• 31:41Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 31:41Speaker 01

  They're literally reusing the solid rocket boosters from the space shuttle. Because they didn't want to lose all these jobs. You know, so it became like a, a jobs program of like space shuttle programs ending 2011. Hey, you know, at first they looked at it as it was called the, um, it was called, oh my God, the, uh, Ares one and two for the constellate, or Ares one and five for the constellation program. And then that ended up being already way over, you know, way over budget, way behind target. And they turned it into this other program that eventually became called the Artemis program. And the rockets called the SLS or the Space Launch System. And it's cost roughly $3 billion a year for the last 10 years, 11 years. And the Orion capsules cost almost the same for the last 15 years to make.

• 32:23Speaker 01

  So we're talking about billions of dollars into this vehicle. When again, I so the frustration with a lot of the spaceflight community is they've received $30 billion so far. They've had one test launch in 2022, went great, relatively great, with no humans on it. And then this is the first time they're putting humans on it and they're doing it for 30 billion when the human lander, that's the huge massive landing part that also has to go out to the moon and do all the things, is getting $3 billion. And it's like gonna be docking a little tin can up against this apartment complex in space to be able to get the crew into that. Like, they have to send, the plan is to send the crew out to the moon on Orion. This is Orion 2? Yep. So Artemis 2. Artemis 2. So Artemis 2 first is just a lunar flyby. So they're just, they're just circling the moon?

• 33:08Speaker 01

  They're going out on a free returns trajectory, basically a figure eight around the moon, similar to Apollo 8. Are they gonna be in lunar orbit? It will not be in lunar orbit. And that's because the SLS rocket, because it's using space shuttle parts, has a, and the Orion capsule being so much bigger, has a relatively small service module. So you know, the Apollo command module is, you know, the Apollo capsule, and then the service module is that bigger part. This is almost the opposite in terms of performance. So it's a bigger, instead of being a little command module with a big service module, it's a big command module with a little service module. So the only orbit it can get to around the moon is a highly elliptical orbit. So they're, they chose an orbit that's called near rectilinear halo orbit. It's a very unique orbit. It has a lot of compromises. And the biggest reason is just because Orion and its service

• 33:52Speaker 01

  module don't have the performance to really go into a low lunar orbit. But this first mission, they're not doing the near rectilinear halo orbit. They're just doing basically a full checkout, flying around the moon. They'll actually travel furthest from Earth than any other human ever. So that'll be exciting. And I mean, in general, this whole thing is exciting. How far past the moon would they go, do you think? Uh, oh, I should know this because it's coming up in two weeks and I'm gonna be streaming the whole thing at Kennedy's Face Center. Like, I'm gonna be there watching it. Are you really? Oh, yeah. Yeah, we will be plugged right in. Here, across, like, three hours from here? Yep. Yep. Well, we have a 4K production trailer and we'll be tied right into the 4K pad cameras. Whoa. Yeah. I mean, we'll have all access to all the feeds and everything. And you'll have access to that for the whole?

• 34:33Danny Jones?

  Whole mission?

• 34:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Uh, not the whole mission. We probably, they'll be streaming and all that stuff, but we'll only have pad access during the launch.

• 34:40Danny Jones?

  Yeah, okay, I see.

• 34:41Speaker 01

  Yep. Uh, but they are flying, uh, on Apollo. Uh, so Artemis two, uh, this is talking about, uh, Gateway, which is another part of the, that is talking about the neorectifler and Halo orbit. Artemis two, I think it's something like four hundred and twenty kilometers, four hundred and twenty thousand kilometers.

• 34:57Danny Jones?

  Four hundred and twenty thousand kilometers.

• 34:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, something around there. Uh, Apollo never really got more than four hundred. I think Apollo thirteen, I think was technically the furthest.

• 35:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's, it's a little beyond that as well. So I, I find that exciting because it's like, let's do it, you know, let's get humans back to the moon. They'll fly, you know, around and through portions of the Van Allen radiation belts, just like Apollo had to. So we'll see that all again and, yeah.

• 35:23Danny Jones?

  And so what is the, what is the purpose of the, of Artemis two?

• 35:27Speaker 01

  Basically a shakedown of the, of the Orion capsule, a crude.

• 35:31Danny Jones?

  To test the capsule?

• 35:32Speaker 01

  Test the capsule, make sure all the life support works, the communication systems work, the, the toilet works, make sure, uh, you know, the soul, it has its own solar arrays instead of, uh, having a built-in fuel cell like the Apollo program did. It has a lot of different systems and it's doing things in a, in a new, and you know, even like, digital avionics, like it has, you know, actual computers on board.

• 35:52Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 35:52Speaker 01

  As opposed to like the big old school, you know, uh, you could almost call them like in aviation, call them like steam gauges, you know? Like, uh, the Apollo capsule is full of just like hardware, you know, and very little computer memory, famously very little computer memory. Computing power.

• 36:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:09Speaker 01

  So this is a modern, you know, modern avionics and it's going to be a full shakedown. They did an uncrewed test in twenty two, twenty two. And this will be the first time humans fly on it though, with, with all, like an all up shakedown of the whole thing. And it's kind of, it's, it's always been in the plan actually to do that first, but it is a little bit of a, a shame that we are still a ways away from the lunar lander being ready.

• 36:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:30Speaker 01

  And that's because the lunar landers only had about three or four years now since the contract started. So like, they have had this SLS rocket and Orion, uh, they've been working on for, you know, fifteen and eleven years. At snails pays.

• 36:44Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 36:45Speaker 01

  They're just like getting just trickling the just enough money to keep all the contractors happy and I'm I'm happy to be frustrated with the bureaucracy of that program. I don't think that's some grand conspiracy per se or a reason that we can't physically do it. It's just a the reality of like how Congress set up the and kind of how NASA has to react to Congress's budgets and Congress's mandates about again, like when, you know, Alabama, for instance, was freaking out that they're going to lose, you know, 40,000 jobs in their district. When the shuttle program ended, of course, you're going to have, you know, members of Congress standing up for their their communities, saying this is going to gut our entire town. You know, same with Titusville, like Titusville went from they lost 30,000 jobs in one day, basically, when the shuttle program ended.

• 37:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I just learned recently that Alabama is the real the real NASA headquarters is in Alabama, not Florida. I always thought it was I always thought it was Kennedy Space Center.

• 37:40Speaker 01

  There's, yeah, Alabama is huge with with it starts with an M, but not.

• 37:46Danny Jones?

  Montgomery?

• 37:47Speaker 01

  No, oh, my gosh, why am I blanking on this?

• 37:49Danny Jones?

  The town?

• 37:49Speaker 01

  Uh, it's Huntsville.

• 37:50Danny Jones?

  Huntsville, yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

• 37:52Speaker 01

  Yep, but I'm blanking on the, oh, my gosh, the the the actual name of the of the center there. But yeah, you have Marshall, I think that's Marshall, Marshall Flight Center.

• 38:01Danny Jones?

  Marshall Flight Center?

• 38:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, or Marshall Space Center. You have, no, that's not, what am I doing?

• 38:07Danny Jones?

  What's the name of NASA Alabama headquarters?

• 38:11Danny Jones?

  See, we'll find it eventually.

• 38:13Speaker 01

  But you have Houston, of course, famously is is big. The actual technical NASA headquarters is in DC. But that's just, you know, again, kind of the.

• 38:22Danny Jones?

  Redstone Arsenal.

• 38:24Speaker 01

  Well, Redstone, that's the Army portion, but the.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  Marsh, okay, it is Marshall.

• 38:31Danny Jones?

  Marshall Space Flight?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. So it is Marshall, okay. God, I'm not totally losing my mind. But yeah, Johnson and Houston, you have JPL out in California. You know, there's.

• 38:41Danny Jones?

  Jack Parsons Laboratory.

• 38:44Speaker 01

  Exactly. But yeah, you have a handful of, you have a handful of spaceflight centers, but, but the one in Alabama is actually a very, and you have, you have a big one down in Louisiana where they're building the tanks, the, the orange fuel tank that was part of the space shuttle, you know, that big orange tank that was like slung on the side of the space shuttle? Yep. That was built at Mashoud in, in Louisiana. And, you know, that was another one. It's like, that's going to shutter a whole community if we stop building hardware here, if NASA stops building the space shuttle. So kind of the, the frustration with SLS is that, yes, it's, it's all derived from space shuttle hardware to keep as many of the contractors and as many people, and people call it the, the Senate launch system, you know, instead of the space launch system. Yeah.

• 39:27Speaker 01

  And they call it a jobs program, which you could rightfully argue it is, and it's, and it's the last, one of the last pieces of, of large launch that is still cost plus contracting as opposed to fixed price contracting. So cost plus is where you, you know, you say, hey, we need to land a rover on, on Mars. We've never done it this big. It's, we need it to be a ton. It has to do all this stuff. You ask a bunch of vendors, how much do you think that'll, you know, how much do you think that'll cost? They all kind of put it in their bid. You choose someone, but you also say like, hey, I know this bid might, you know, might be wrong. So like, whatever it costs, just let us know. Send us the bill, basically. Right? Right. That's cost plus. That's how the Saturn V was built. That's how NASA's always operated is, is traditionally with cost plus contracting. And that's how the, the, you know, the military works.

• 40:12Speaker 01

  It's like, we don't necessarily, when you're pushing the boundaries, you don't necessarily know how much something's going to cost. You might have a rough idea, but you'll run into so many, like, you're going to run into a lot of problems. You're going to run into a lot of like, we had no idea this was going to cost us much, or this took four times longer. So we had to employ these people, you know, for four more years or whatever. So that's cost plus. Famously then, the reason that SpaceX is, is kind of well-known and, and how they work with NASA is NASA started doing the commercial crew program and the commercial resupply contracts. So they basically said, hey, we have a fixed amount of money. If you can, and we'll, we'll sign a couple of people up to try to, you know, if you can send the crew and cargo up to the International Space Station, we'll give you this amount of money, but no more. So if you can't do it for that amount of money, you're going to lose money.

• 40:56Speaker 01

  A pretty, you know, pretty, seems like a no brainer. It's on you. Yeah. It's still can, and it really, you know, gets competitive and, and one of the reasons then that, so SpaceX won.

• 41:08Speaker 01

  Was it $3 billion for the for the commercial crew program? And Boeing received almost double that or almost $5 billion.

• 41:16Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 41:16Speaker 01

  And SpaceX launched their first crew in 2020. And it was two, their names were Bob and Doug. They flew in 2020, they went to the International Space Station. Since then, they've flown, I think we're on Crew 13, right? Or Crew Crew 12. So they've flown like they've flown almost 20 crew because there's also been private missions now that have flown on Dragon and with SpaceX. Meanwhile, Boeing has only flown two people to the International Space Station. And famously got stuck up there. And they did not, the crew did not return from the International Space Station on that Boeing spacecraft.

• 41:47Danny Jones?

  Oh, yes, that was a commercial one.

• 41:50Speaker 01

  That was a commercial launch.

• 41:50Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God, I didn't even realize that. How long were they up there for? Elon rescued them, right?

• 41:55Speaker 01

  Well, in a sense, Elon rescued them. And the fact that they basically, the next SpaceX one that was on schedule, they left two seats open.

• 42:02Danny Jones?

  Ah, okay.

• 42:02Speaker 01

  So, yeah, Elon did argue that like, we can send it anytime. I mean, SpaceX, they're like a well-oiled machine.

• 42:08Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 42:08Speaker 01

  But they didn't, they realized like the trade was, hey, we can have these guys up there for eight and a half months. No big deal. That's as opposed to six. Do you imagine? That's actually not.

• 42:18Danny Jones?

  No big deal for us, just we'll see in eight months.

• 42:20Speaker 01

  Just stranded in space. Well, it was supposed like a six month would be a normal, actually, I mean, their thing was supposed to only be about two weeks. So eight and a half months is a lot. But these astronauts had already, you know, flown to space, had been to the ISS. And a normal crew rotation is six months. So that's like not that unheard of. In fact, like Scott Kelly spent almost a year on the ISS. So these aren't like, it's not that unheard of. And it's just as a matter of like scheduling and stuff, it makes sense just to keep it on the same rotation. So you don't screw up the whole entire International Space Station's crew rotation schedule, just because you want to.

• 42:51Danny Jones?

  Just really inconvenient for those guys.

• 42:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, but they're, but they're professional astronauts.

• 42:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 42:56Speaker 01

  That's where they want to be.

• 42:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, I thought they were, I thought they were, I thought, I thought it was a.

• 43:00Speaker 01

  They're still NASA astronauts.

• 43:02Danny Jones?

  Okay, I didn't realize they were actually NASA astronauts. I thought they were just like tourists.

• 43:05Speaker 01

  Nope, still NASA astronauts, but they were flying on the first Boeing Starliner mission.

• 43:10Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 43:11Speaker 01

  So it just kind of puts into perspective a little bit like the complacency, I would say, of these contractors that were used to the. Fixed price contract or to a to a cost plus contract now having to work in this fixed price contract model and SpaceX almost got laughed out of the room when they said, you know, because one of the reasons that Boeing got more money was for timeline assurance. So this is like 2016 and SpaceX got less money because they were the new kids on the block. They had never flown anyone to space.

• 43:39Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  They ended up doing it by 2020, like which was still considered behind schedule, but it's still quite aggressive, but they that was four or four years earlier than Boeing did. So Boeing took twice as much time for twice as much money and still botched it. You know, and it's like, it just shows a little bit of that, the bureaucracy, the, the slow portions of some of the spaceflight that I'm still frustrated with that is changing. And NASA is moving more and more into these fixed price contracts, including in the Artemis program, it's split down the middle, this SLS and Orion is cost plus. The human landing systems, so the actual lunar landers are fixed price and they're commercial. So even the Artemis program is kind of divided down the middle right now.

• 44:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 44:24Speaker 01

  Which is good. I want, I want them to move more towards that fixed price. That'll, that'll open up, that'll open up the commercial environment.

• 44:30Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 44:30Speaker 01

  And it'll, you know, we've seen how that works and so far for some people it's gone really, really well.

• 44:35Danny Jones?

  I'm always so like, whenever I go to the East Coast for a couple of days, like for a surf trip or whatever, I'm always just stunned by like how many launches there are at Kennedy Space Center. It'd be like, just like random, like you never even hear of them. It's just like, oh, there's a rocket going off today at that 8pm or whatever time it is. And it's like, what's this one for? And it just seems like just a routine, everyday thing.

• 44:59Speaker 01

  It's become extremely routine now.

• 45:01Danny Jones?

  And I can't imagine how many friggin satellites they have up there right now. It's gotta look like just hornets surrounding a beehive or something like that.

• 45:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, there's over 10,000. I think there's 11,300 or something active satellites right now. And that goes up by about, it goes up by about 50 every week. At this rate.

• 45:23Danny Jones?

  And it's astonishing. They don't run into each other.

• 45:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that's, that's the beautiful thing about spaceflight is it's actually predictable. You know, there's no disturbances that are going to alter the trajectory of a thing. It's in, it's in an orbit.

• 45:34Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 45:35Speaker 01

  You can predict it for the next six months.

• 45:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 45:37Speaker 01

  Based on, you know, because there's no, there's no wind, there's no wind, there's no air resistance. There's no, no, you know, anything reacting against it unless it fires a thruster or something to change its trajectory. It's going to be doing the same thing, you know, forever. I mean, eventually in low earth orbit specifically, there's still trace amounts of atmosphere. You know, the atmosphere doesn't just end at space.

• 45:57Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 45:57Speaker 01

  You know, 100 kilometers.

• 45:58Danny Jones?

  It's a gradient.

• 45:59Speaker 01

  It's a gradient. Exactly. And so even in low earth orbit at 500 kilometers, you're still running into a couple molecules every now and then. And that actually does slowly slow you down. The slower you get, the lower your orbit starts to get. And eventually it cascades because now you're lower, more molecules lower, more, you know? And all of a sudden it goes from like this to all of a sudden, and you just like get sucked in and re-enter.

• 46:20Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 46:20Speaker 01

  And so, uh, for the most part though, we catalog and track every single object. And so although it might look terrifying when you see these, you know, animations of thousands and thousands of satellites, most of them are about the size of this table and they're, you know, 10s or 20 kilometers apart from each other. Cause they're also, you have all these different orbital altitudes as well.

• 46:41Danny Jones?

  Yeah, right. Exactly.

• 46:42Speaker 01

  Just like planes, you know, there's 50,000 planes in the sky right now, or whatever the number is. There's a ton of planes in a smaller area with smaller altitude variations. And how often do planes actually run into each other?

• 46:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 46:55Speaker 01

  Almost never. I'm not going to say never, but.

• 46:57Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. It's a good point.

• 46:58Speaker 01

  Especially when they're like in the pattern and they're in there, you know, they're going from point A to point B and they're at their altitudes. No big deal.

• 47:03Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 47:04Speaker 01

  You know, and space is, it's bigger and even more predictable in that manner.

• 47:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's a good point. I never thought about it that way. The plane thing's funny. We were looking at that the other day. When you look at the map of all the planes flying around, they put, they show the map, but then they show like the planes. But if like the, the size of the plane would be like the scale of like a mothership or something like that. If there was that, if, because you can't even see the map underneath all the little planes they put on the map.

• 47:29Speaker 01

  They have to scale them so you can.

• 47:30Danny Jones?

  They have to scale them right like that. There you go.

• 47:32Speaker 01

  Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. And the same thing happens with satellites.

• 47:36Danny Jones?

  Is like the size of fucking, uh, New Jersey or something.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  You have and same with all these maps of satellites and stuff. You have to scale them so you can physically see them. And if you zoom in, they become inconsequently small, you know, to that degree. So same thing. I mean, we're, this is the new era of like, we have spaceflight now has been opened up with the commercial in the commercial world. And it's, it's, it's happening. Like all the future things that we all dreamt about that Von Braun was talking about in the 50s. Like, we're finally catching up to that kind of capability.

• 48:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's crazy that, you know, the Nazis pioneered rocket science, right? And they were also so obsessed with the occult and Atlantis and these bizarre mysteries and myths, you know? And yet we get rocket science from them.

• 48:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, rocket science itself, the science, like Sokolsky or whatever, the rocket equation was Russian. We had Goddard over here in the US, who actually technically is the father of liquid propulsion, but it was very like low power liquid propulsion.

• 48:44Danny Jones?

  And until, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe until Jack Parsons, scientists didn't even believe we could propel a rocket through space.

• 48:53Speaker 01

  I don't know about that, because

• 48:56Danny Jones?

  Because they thought that there was nothing to push against in the void, in the space. They thought that that it wouldn't work. And he was the first one to.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  I don't know. Wasn't Jack Parsons quite a bit later? Like, wasn't he like 40s, 50s, 60s? Like, in that era of, of history as opposed, because, because the rocket equation was, I think.

• 49:17Speaker 02

  Yeah, he died in 52.

• 49:19Speaker 01

  He died in 52.

• 49:20Danny Jones?

  Okay, okay. Yeah, so he was a little bit earlier.

• 49:23Speaker 01

  I mean, I think the idea of like, I mean, Von Braun wrote, wrote papers and stuff when he was a kid, talking about space travel and things like that.

• 49:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but using rockets?

• 49:32Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. So he was parts of like rocket clubs and stuff. And, you know, before the SS and all, you know, before all the Nazi stuff. And unfortunately, with his political climate, like he was offered either you die, or you start building us these rockets basically. And he chose to build rockets. And I think his goal, you know, according to his writings as a, as a young person was to always explore. But the means in which he ended up ever building them was for war. And from a horrible regime, as we know. But, yeah, I mean, the, I think people understood that rockets would work in space for a long time, because it's, it's recoil. A rocket is a gun. Mm hmm. You know, it's like the, my favorite thing to think about is like how an A-10 Warthog,

• 50:16Speaker 01

  you know, when it's flying and you've ever seen the Gatling gun on an A-10 Warthog? Uh, probably, but I can't. It's like, it sounds like, like it sounds like. Okay. It fires like 4,000 rounds per minute, something, something around there. It's like absolutely absurd amount of ammunition. It fires so much ammunition and so fast that it literally slows the, the jet down. The jet has two jet engines and the Gatling gun on the front produces as much thrust as one of those jet engines. Wow. So it actually slows down. Oh, okay. So when the A-10 Warthog fires and holds the trigger down, they can't hold it down too long because they can actually slow the plane down too much. And they can alter its handling characteristics and everything. So they have to be mindful.

• 50:56Speaker 01

  And that's all a rocket engine is, is it's expelling mass, it's shooting mass, mass flow, propellant as fast as possible. Supersonic, you know, and they're, they're shooting it out as, the faster you throw mass, the more reaction it has against you. Right. So that's all a rocket engine is. And so that's why we're, we developed these incredible engines like SpaceX now famously has a, a Raptor engine, it's called. And it's. Yes. The world's first flown full flow stage combustion engine where it's so advanced, they're, they're using all of the propellant basically to, to not only spin the pumps and the power of the pumps that suck the gas, you know, the propellant out of the tanks and shoves it into the combustion chamber as high of pressure as possible.

• 51:35Speaker 01

  So that the higher pressure in the chamber, the more you can expand it through that nozzle to speed it up out the, out the nozzle. So they're basically just using that to, you cram it together, you choke it down. There's a throat or you call it the DeLaval nozzle. It goes, it converges and then diverges. And what's happening is you're taking that high pressure gas, the higher pressure it is, the, the, the, the more you can expand it out the nozzle. Right. It's, I have, I have like, when I talk about this stuff, sorry, I have like, it takes me normally an hour to explain. Like I have an hour long videos on, on how, how these pumps and stuff like that. Right, right, right. So I'm, I'll try to keep it succinct for you, but, uh, but that's all they're doing is they're, they're shooting it, they're shooting mass out the back. And it's an equal and opposite reaction, just like a fire hose too, you know, a fire hose.

• 52:19Danny Jones?

  Of course, yeah.

• 52:20Speaker 01

  Doesn't push against firefighter because the water's hitting the air and pushing the air and that air pushes back on the hose.

• 52:26Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:27Speaker 01

  It's literally the, the mass flowing out of the nozzle is what's pushing equal and opposite to the fireman.

• 52:35Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:35Speaker 01

  And against the hose. So, and the same with the recoil of gun. It's not the bullet hitting the air that makes the gun shoot back at you. If you take a gun into space, it's still gonna have recoil.

• 52:45Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 52:45Speaker 01

  Cause it's shooting the mass in the equal and, so the equal and opposite reaction happens to you. That's all rockets are. So, you know, they work, they actually work better in a vacuum because there's a, because there's a less resistance and you can actually do more expansion out of the nozzle as well. So.

• 53:01Danny Jones?

  It just, I don't know. It feels like such a crude way to get off the earth, you know, like shooting a gun. Or firing a cannon just to get off the earth. It feels like, you know, with all the money and the, and the, and the, um, private aerospace organizations that are just throwing billions of dollars at this stuff. You, you, you would think that they could come up with like a different, a different way without just, just incinerating tons of fuel.

• 53:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 53:29Danny Jones?

  You know?

• 53:30Speaker 01

  Well, there's been proposals for like, uh, like there's been an Orion, uh, not the Orion spacecraft that we're about to see, but the Orion launch vehicle was that idea to literally drop nuclear bombs.

• 53:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 53:39Speaker 01

  And then have it just like pogo stick your way into orbit. Like that was a halfway seriously conceived idea.

• 53:46Danny Jones?

  I remember that.

• 53:47Speaker 01

  There's also been like, there's a company now called Spin Launch that wants to spin up a rocket inside a centrifuge and then yeet it out of the, you know, like spinning up like a catapult, basically. However, it's spinning.

• 53:59Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  So fast and it's so big that the rocket itself inside that centrifuge, it's a vacuum. They had to produce a vacuum. So it's not sitting there.

• 54:07Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  But it produces 10,000 Gs on the, on the rocket while it's in the centrifuge.

• 54:15Danny Jones?

  That's explosive.

• 54:17Speaker 01

  Yeah. So.

• 54:17Danny Jones?

  And this is who is doing this?

• 54:19Speaker 01

  Spin Launch.

• 54:22Speaker 01

  They've built a one-third scale demonstrator that was, I believe, a hundred meters wide.

• 54:26Danny Jones?

  Holy smokes, dude. Is this real or is this AI right here?

• 54:31Speaker 01

  That one's real. That's their demonstrator. So it's a third scale demonstrator.

• 54:34Danny Jones?

  And what do they want to send this rocket?

• 54:36Speaker 01

  They just want to be able to launch payloads and things like that. So they're trying to make it cheaper. Cause you know, just like you're asking, can you believe we're still wasting all this propellant? They're like, what if we just spun a giant motor? But the problem, there's a few problems, but you know, now you're, now you're going, you know, you're going 3,000 mile an hour, whatever at sea level. So just as soon as you open up that hatch and eject, like you're experiencing an insane amount of air resistance and heating from compression of the air around it. So like you have all these, you got 10,000 G on the vehicle while it's in the centrifuge. Like this will never be used for humans. It might be useful for propellant refueling could be an option. Cause whatever, propellant doesn't care if it's 10,000 G for the most part.

• 55:19Speaker 01

  But it's, it's a unique system. Um, I'm not necessarily the biggest fan and I don't know if it'll ever.

• 55:26Danny Jones?

  It seems so primitive, dude.

• 55:28Speaker 01

  This is, yeah, this is almost like, this is as ooga booga as, as lighting a bunch of stuff on fire to get it to space. Like this is like, what if we just threw it, you know?

• 55:36Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 55:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 55:38Danny Jones?

  Create a slingshot, right? A billion dollar slingshot, essentially.

• 55:42Speaker 01

  Yep. I have a whole video on like, why don't we throw rockets basically? And at the end of the day, you realize like, you can spend a lot of money, a lot of effort and a lot of infrastructure for like one or 2% gain. You know, it's like, just make a little bit bigger rocket.

• 55:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 55:57Speaker 01

  It's always, conventionally been always the easier of the two evils.

• 56:01Danny Jones?

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• 57:30Danny Jones?

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• 58:56Danny Jones?

  Go to amentara.com/go/dj and use my code DJ22 for 22% off your first order. That's spelled A M E N T A R A dot com slash go slash DJ and use the code DJ22 for 22% off. It's linked down below. Now back to the show. Well, dude, I think the aerospace companies have some different kind of propulsion figured out. That's like black, but they don't, they're not letting to be public. Which ones? Have you seen, I mean, I'm sure you've heard of like Commander David Fravor and Ryan Graves and these, these Navy pilots. Uh, I watched recently the, uh, Age of Disclosure. Uh huh. Have you seen that one? I have. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. I mean, I love that stuff. I'm fascinated by it.

• 59:39Danny Jones?

  So, uh, did you see the article the New York Times put out in 2017? Probably. Pull up that article, Steve. I was forget the title of it, but, uh, basically, um, it was laying out, uh, what happened with Commander David Fravor, who is a, a top, top level Navy fighter pilot. He was flying off the coast of San Diego. And, uh, he describes this tic tac shaped object. You've heard of that? Mm hmm. And he described it as moving from like thousands of feet above sea level to like a foot in less than a second or something like that. Right.

• 1:00:18Danny Jones?

  As well as like the thing was showing up at its, at his cap points before he even knew what is where his cap point was. And all this bizarre stuff and like, it was on radar, it was recorded on radar, but the, they, a couple of guys came in. They confiscated his radar, all that video, um, when he got back to the aircraft carrier and all that. And it wasn't just him. It was a bunch of guys that saw this stuff and picked it up. They noticed it right when they upgraded the radar on their jets.

• 1:00:49Danny Jones?

  And.

• 1:00:51Danny Jones?

  For some reason, they were, they were picking this shit up and it was just like defying anything. They were like, if there was human beings in this thing, they would have been turned to liquid because it was moving so fast.

• 1:01:01Speaker 01

  Crushed, yeah.

• 1:01:01Danny Jones?

  I think it's possible that that's just like secret black budget stuff. You know, there's like, there's like billions of dollars missing from the Pentagon.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:07Danny Jones?

  Right, I'm sure that money has gone to like secretive war technology.

• 1:01:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:11Danny Jones?

  And people that have the contracts for that are companies like Boeing, Lockheed, those kinds of companies.

• 1:01:15Speaker 01

  Northrop, yeah.

• 1:01:16Danny Jones?

  Um, Northrop, right, exactly.

• 1:01:18Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:01:18Danny Jones?

  And, um.

• 1:01:19Speaker 01

  I don't disagree with anything you're saying so far.

• 1:01:21Danny Jones?

  I think it's possible that they could have been testing some sort of black technology against our highest level Navy fighters, you know?

• 1:01:28Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:29Danny Jones?

  Because, I mean, those guys, like, those guys are the tip top tip of the spear when it comes to like psychologically sound people.

• 1:01:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:01:39Danny Jones?

  They're, they're constantly tested, going through psychiatric tests. It's like, it's like fighter pilots and the dudes who run nuclear launch sites.

• 1:01:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:46Danny Jones?

  They have to be like tip top.

• 1:01:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:47Danny Jones?

  Psychologically, you know, psychologically sound folks. So the fact that these guys were coming out and it was in this New York Times article in 2017, that's when it kind of like blew the lid off of all this stuff.

• 1:02:00Speaker 01

  Listen, inject this stuff into my veins. I like, I love this stuff and I, I, I want to believe that we have, especially if it's like alien technology, please sign me up. I, I still abide by the great claims require great evidence, you know?

• 1:02:14Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:02:14Speaker 01

  Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. And like, this is great, and I want this stuff, I want this stuff to keep coming out because I would love to learn more about this. There's a very decent chance it might not even be alien, alien technology might be the, the psy ops to keep you from learning what they're actually doing or what they've actually discovered or what they've actually engineered. I mean, again, if we had, you know, the, the top engineer, the top engineers at the time were developing rockets and that was like the secret holy grail of delivering a nuclear payload to someone, that was 70, 80, almost 90 years ago now. Of course, we're doing crazy things now today that people, the public doesn't know about. And it might be stuff that can travel at these insane rates and they might be bending spacetime. That would be awesome.

• 1:02:58Speaker 01

  Like, I just hope it doesn't obliterate all of us before we get to learn what it is, you know?

• 1:03:03Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:03:04Danny Jones?

  Well, yeah, no, I saw, I, I think that. I mean, there's just so much evidence. I sent you a video yesterday from my friend Jesse Michaels, who posts, he has a channel that covers all of this stuff. And he's like a wizard on the history of the space program, NASA, all these physicists from like the Cold War and before, who were studying anti-gravity. There's Thomas Townsend Brown, Jack Parsons, all these guys that are working on this stuff, like this anti-gravity stuff in North Carolina Chapel Hill. These are people that are tied into legitimate space programs, and like being funded by like the highest levels of NASA, CIA, all this stuff,

• 1:03:49Danny Jones?

  to do like crazy physics, right? And one of the guys that Jesse was pointing out in that video is a guy who's been working for NASA for over 40 years, since the 80s, who is, who wrote that book called Launch Fever. And he is allegedly, he's the mission controller at NASA or SpaceX.

• 1:04:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, I couldn't find anyone named Timothy Taylor.

• 1:04:19Danny Jones?

  He's a ghost. He's a ghost. But he founded a company called, I think, Vivex, which is a medical, biomedical company.

• 1:04:29Speaker 01

  That was in like 2007 or something.

• 1:04:30Danny Jones?

  And he sold it for like 80 million dollars or something recently. Anyways, this guy, this guy right here. What is his website?

• 1:04:42Speaker 02

  This is theorg.com. I don't know, it popped up in theorg.com. I just searched for Tim Taylor.

• 1:04:48Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:04:50Speaker 01

  Tim the Toolman Taylor.

• 1:04:51Danny Jones?

  Why don't you go to his bio on, oh wait, look, it talks about Vivex right there.

• 1:05:00Danny Jones?

  So there was a lady, Diane Pasolka, who wrote this book called American Cosmic. She's a religious, she's a professor of religious studies in North Carolina. And she studies, you know, like Catholicism and Christianity and the history of all that stuff. And a couple of her friends came up to her and she was like, hey, have you ever paid attention to this UFO stuff? She's like, no, why? And they're like, oh, because there's a lot of parallels between like the Bible and these texts and like UFO lore. Like, look into it. Check this out. She looked into it, whatever. And long story short, she got connected with a guy named Gary Nolan out of Stanford, I think. I could be wrong. Somewhere, somewhere in California.

• 1:05:40Danny Jones?

  And this guy, Tim, who was, she made his name pseudonymous in her book because he didn't allow her to do it. Eventually, like Redditors did the deep dive and found out who he was, kind of exposed his name. But this guy, Tim, took them out, like blindfolded her, and took her out to this place in New Mexico or Nevada or somewhere and found some, uh, some alloys or metals with this crazy isotope ratio that wasn't from Earth. And this guy, Gary Nolan, who's a scientist, a legit scientist in California, analyzed them and like did all this crazy microscopic, micro testing on it and like found out the isotope ratios are like, clearly this stuff's not from Earth.

• 1:06:22Danny Jones?

  And, um, this guy Tim has this crazy background in rocketry and rocket science and biomedical stuff, uh, mission controller. And this guy Tim also is like popping up in all the lives of these crazy UFO experiencers. Like all these crazy guys like Chris, like, um, this guy, Whitley Strieber, who wrote Communion, which is like one of the craziest, uh, sci-fi fantasy alien books that got turned into a movie of all time. Showed up in his life, showed up in this guy, Chris Bledsoe's life. All these people who like claim to have these wacky, like out there, alien contact experiences.

• 1:07:04Danny Jones?

  This guy, Tim, shows up in their lives, to their houses, interviews them and asks some questions. Like, okay, tell me what they looked like. Okay, what was this? What was that? Like, really interesting, all this stuff. And like, also, kind of like, leads them down the path to like, solidifying what happened. Not like, hey, you're, you know,

• 1:07:23Speaker 01

  This is what you experienced.

• 1:07:24Danny Jones?

  Like, like, like, okay, like, this is real, like, this is okay, this is what happened. Then he pulls out a briefcase full of these crazy alloys and goes, hold this, hold that. He took Chris Bledsoe to NASA to watch, to Kennedy Space Center, to watch one of the launches, brought him like into like the, the main control room headquarters where like civilians can't go. And he was a part of his life for, for many, many years, like, visiting him and his family, going to his kids' football games. And it's just crazy to me how this guy who's like deep in the Department of Defense and NASA and stuff, like legitimately nuts and bolts, like hardcore scientist, is also showing up in the lives of these like crazy woo UFO alien experiencers, you know?

• 1:08:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. I mean, I also find that interesting. From, from what I, just, just to be clear, from what I know, like, I think your guess you had on the other day was like, he's been launching all the NASA rockets for, you know, 40 years or whatever. Well, first off, like NASA hardly launches their own rockets anymore. It's almost all commercial programs nowadays. But, uh, but every mission director and launch director and stuff like that is all public record. Like, he, he looked like he had worked early on.

• 1:08:36Danny Jones?

  Every, every mission controller, everyone, they're all public record.

• 1:08:39Speaker 01

  All federal employees, you know, so, yeah, you, you can find out who is the mission director on, on any of the missions. And, and mission director and launch director, uh, things like that is pretty, I mean, pretty easy to find. And like, so I don't think this guy did any of the mission director or launch director. He looked like he flew some payloads on shuttle, looks like he's part of the shuttle program kind of early on.

• 1:08:57Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:08:57Speaker 01

  That doesn't discredit the, some of the things, I just want to clear up, like, when someone says, this guy has worked at NASA for 40 years and like, looked like he started a company in 2007 or whatever. It's like, he, he worked at NASA for a bit, he flew some payloads on, on some spatial missions. Again, like, just, just to be clear, like, I'm not, I'm not trying to.

• 1:09:14Danny Jones?

  Right. But so he all, he also told this UFO experiencer that he, uh, who helped him with his, some of his patents and stuff like this, that he gets his information from like, downloads that he gets from like, and he claims it's from like non-human intelligences, these downloads come to him.

• 1:09:32Speaker 01

  Cool. Right? Like, sign me up for that, too?

• 1:09:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, this is, this is anyways, that's Jesse's interview with Bledsoe and he also. That's a sick set too, by the way. That is a badass set. Jesse's got two incredible sets. One's like a spaceship and then this one's also like a soup sick looking.

• 1:09:48Speaker 02

  Like 60s hardware.

• 1:09:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's like a retro space looking set.

• 1:09:52Speaker 02

  With the background.

• 1:09:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that's. Gorgeous. And um.

• 1:09:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah, anyways, anyway, my point is stuff like what this guy Tim Taylor is saying seems to be like a pattern in the history of the space program, right? With people like Jack Parsons and folks like that who are all like into this esoteric occult stuff and like and even Edgar Mitchell, right? Like he was came back from the moon. He was super into interested in like UFO lore. He started the Institute of Newitic Sciences. Was really into like ESP and telepathy and all that stuff when he came back.

• 1:10:32Danny Jones?

  And even even um, what happened with uh? With Neil Armstrong? So he got back from the moon and in 75, he went on this expedition in Ecuador on like the edge of the Amazon rainforest to this Teos Cave and it was documented by the BBC on TV. And the lore of this Teos Cave that he went to was supposedly like the site it housed like exotic alien metals or something like this. And can you find out about that Teos Cave? Okay, there you go. Neil Armstrong uh led a scientific expedition to the Teos Cave in Ecuador's Amazon region, da, da, da, da, da.

• 1:11:15Danny Jones?

  Joined 100 people to explore the caves, rumoredly legendary metal library of ancient artifacts.

• 1:11:23Danny Jones?

  So, yeah, and then you combine that with all the Freemasons that are involved in it. It's just like, it's a pattern. It's clearly there's something else going on here other than just like nuts and bolts hardcore material science.

• 1:11:39Speaker 01

  Maybe, but that's the part that I talk about is the hardcore nuts and bolts material science. You know, that's definitely like more.

• 1:11:45Danny Jones?

  But have you ever run into any of that stuff in your research?

• 1:11:47Speaker 01

  I haven't. No. Um, I haven't. No. And, you know, I have a lot of friends that work in the aerospace industry that I, I think the average person that works in the aerospace industry is pretty focused on their, their one project, you know, I've, I have friends that work on the heat shield tiles on a program, others that do the wiring harness, you know, and just like, um, even the, you know, the, and I guess Sabrell even said something along the lines of like, people, you know, when he say that 400,000 people were contracted basically to build the, the moon rock and get humans to the moon.

• 1:12:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:12:19Speaker 01

  That there's of course truth that like, not everyone on every project that's physically sewing together, uh, you know, a part of the space suit knows everything about the whole program, of course, and they wouldn't be told everything about the whole program. There's no need for any of that. So I understand where that comes from, but, um, I also don't know of anyone that's ever been like, yeah, like, once you're behind the doors at SpaceX, you know, or once you're behind the doors at Lockheed Martin, we, uh, have these Freemasons, you know, like, I've never heard any, anything like that at all, but I don't know. I, I stick to spaceflight hardware and, and yeah, spaceflight, but I, I don't know. That's, that's, that's outside of my realm. Yeah.

• 1:12:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah. It's just super interesting to look into. Um, and, you know, obviously the Freemasonry shit is not that popular anymore. I mean, I could see how it was like bigger back in the day. It was less frowned upon, you know, like during Apollo 11, but.

• 1:13:11Speaker 01

  It's so crazy. There's still like a Freemasons, like a, yeah, Freemasons little like lodge or temple or thing or whatever, like a little thing like downtown in my hometown. And I'm always like, I, I want to see, like, I want to go in there. I want to become a Freemason and learn what all this is, you know, like, why aren't we all just doing that?

• 1:13:27Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Then we can expose it.

• 1:13:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:13:30Speaker 01

  Let's, let's go find the one. There's plenty of weird things around here.

• 1:13:33Danny Jones?

  Right, right. Yeah. We're in the Scientology homeland. That's why we got the little E-meter here. Um, so, okay, back to the moon stuff. Let me ask you this.

• 1:13:48Danny Jones?

  If you wanted to hypothetically, um, just a thought experiment here. If you wanted to steel man the idea that we didn't go to the moon. Which arguments do you think are the most compelling?

• 1:14:04Speaker 01

  I think by far, the one that resonates the most and the one that resonates with me that I'm most frustrated with is that we stopped going. You know, that whole idea of we couldn't have gone because it's been 54 years since we went to the moon. Obviously that means we didn't go. That resonates with me hard. I totally get the frustration. I understand the logic. It does make sense.

• 1:14:27Speaker 01

  You, you brought this up with, with Bart at the same time, you know, it's the same thing of we used to have the Concord. We no longer have the Concord. You know, the Concord was a supersonic jet that could go twice the speed of sound. Get you to New York and London in three and a half hours and was amazing. We don't have that. It's not that we physically lost the ability to do so. We just don't have the economic driving factor to do so.

• 1:14:48Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 1:14:49Speaker 01

  We also, you know, when people say things like, we lost the hardware to do it. And, you know, famously, Don Pettit said something along the lines of we destroyed that capability. Well, it's, you don't physically destroy, let's go through and just, you know, blow up this factory and stuff. It's just that things evolve, just like you can't build, you know, if you told Ford, hey, rebuild the 1967 Mustang. Exactly like verbatim. I want all your original machining, machines back online. I want all your employees that know how to do, you know, manual labor and mandrels and welding. I want them all back in here. I want you to make a, a line, a factory line of 1967 Ford Mustangs.

• 1:15:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  Cause it's one of the greatest cars ever made. Like, let's do it. Good luck. You will not build the same car. It will not in any way, shape and form, you'll, you can't find those old, you know, mandrels. You can't find the old machines, CNC machines, or sorry, not even CNC machines. You can't find, you know, any of the parts that were there to build.

• 1:15:46Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Any of the supply chain that they would get light bulbs from, they would get seat belts from that they'd get steering. You know, all of that stuff is shut down.

• 1:15:53Danny Jones?

  All the little micro technologies that went into that have all. All been changed, revolutionized.

• 1:15:59Speaker 01

  A thousand times by now.

• 1:16:00Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 1:16:00Speaker 01

  In the same way that you can't rebuild the Saturn V rocket because all of the suppliers for all these little parts and these little things have all either been, you know, bought up by someone else, changed, used modern manufacturing techniques. You'd be starting from scratch if you were to do it again that same way. And so I understand the frustration of, you know, we did this thing 54 years ago and we lost that ability to do it. But we also spent $300 billion in today's money to get us there. And, uh, and the public, like I said, we had three other rockets and hardware built and the crew to do so. And we just said, eh, not worth it. Like, that's what I'm frustrated with. So, so steel manning the, the argument, I, that resonates with me very hardcore because I also agree.

• 1:16:45Danny Jones?

  Now, what about the, all the data being erased?

• 1:16:48Speaker 01

  That one, that one is so misconstrued.

• 1:16:51Danny Jones?

  Is it?

• 1:16:51Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. The only data that was lost ever, period, from anything, is the original transmission of Apollo 11. As soon as it was downlinked, it was split into two halves. And so the first half got rerecorded onto 25, uh, I think 25 centimeter, um, or 36 centimeter long, like big data tapes, right? There are these old school magnetic tapes.

• 1:17:15Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 1:17:15Speaker 01

  Um, I think they're 25 millimeter thick and they're basically like giant cassette tapes, reel to reel, you know, they, they stored data, they stored video, they stored telemetry data. It was all a direct backup in case the link to mission control went down. Right? So if, so from that downlink, something happened and all of a sudden, because then it from the downlink, like for instance, Goldstone in Australia was one of the receiving places.

• 1:17:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:17:37Speaker 01

  It then had to get relayed to mission control in Houston for them to be able to receive the data. So if something happened in that link in that chain and Houston was no longer receiving data, and let's say there was a catastrophic problem with the spacecraft and they lost the crew. That was the only thing they had to be able to look at the raw data. All of it was still being recorded in Houston, all of the data, all the telemetry, all the video. However, it wasn't the highest quality video because it wasn't on that raw. What they were doing in order to transmit data or video data was basically, this is a common thing at the time. They were using a kinoscope recorder where they're basically pointing a camera at a monitor.

• 1:18:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they wouldn't give all the TV stations their own feeds. They made them all bring their cameras and shoot it at a monitor, right?

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  Uh, no, they actually distributed it for them. So they would give, they would point the camera at, because it's using slow scan. The, the, the camera type of system they're using to broadcast from the moon back was slow scan. In order to get it onto national television, it had to be an NTSC format, which is actually kind of what we still use today. Two nine nine seven. And so in order to even convert it, the easiest thing to do is literally take a monitor, kind of have this like enclosed box. And they literally filmed that monitor.

• 1:18:42Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right, right.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  And the first time that they specifically did that on Apollo 11, it, it isn't good. It's very poor connections. They, it's not great, but it was good enough, you know, and no one thought anything of it at the time.

• 1:18:55Danny Jones?

  And you're saying that that was common back then to do it that way?

• 1:18:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, if you had to convert from slow scan to NTSC.

• 1:19:00Danny Jones?

  And what, who else would convert from slow scan to NTSC?

• 1:19:04Speaker 01

  There was still other things that were, slow scan was just actually like predates this new format for NTSC. So, um, I don't know a ton about broadcast video, but the standard that like, for instance, in Europe, they use PAL 25.

• 1:19:17Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:17Speaker 01

  Frames per second, here we use NTSC. And I think just before that, as people were just trying to even get, you know, digital or analog, but not film, you know, not replaying a film. You had, and even if you wanted to convert film and broadcast it on TV, to actually use something along this kinoscope process. So kineoscope or whatever it's called. And you're, you're basically filming a monitor or in reverse filming a film.

• 1:19:38Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:19:38Speaker 01

  And you can broadcast it that way. So you're just trying to get it broadcastable basically, right?

• 1:19:43Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:19:43Speaker 01

  So they're taking this, the signal, and because it already gone out on air, everyone had, you know, the feed of the video. There was no, and we had all the data. These tapes, that the backup tapes, you know, the, the raw data tapes weren't considered like this, like holy, you know, grill. We have to hold on to these because these are so, they had everything. Like they had all the video. They filmed everything still with some 16 millimeter film cameras.

• 1:20:08Danny Jones?

  So, so the downstream was. One side of one, when it downstreamed, it forked off into two feeds. One was a raw, sort of like backup feed. And the other one was just for people to, for other news stations to film so they could project.

• 1:20:21Speaker 01

  And including even what was seen on the screens in NASA's headquarters in Houston. I mean, at Johnson Space.

• 1:20:26Danny Jones?

  Projections.

• 1:20:27Speaker 01

  Were all in that NTSC format. So they also, because it was good enough for them.

• 1:20:32Danny Jones?

  So what happened to the raw stuff, though?

• 1:20:34Speaker 01

  So they stored it in tapes on these, they just took these tapes, they put them in pallets and they threw them in some room. Whereas relatively inconsequential, right? Just like, oh, whatever, they're magnetic tapes.

• 1:20:44Danny Jones?

  And it got recorded over.

• 1:20:45Speaker 01

  Eventually, in I think the seventies or eighties, they had a data storage shortage of these types of magnetic tapes. And, and I want to be clear that only the backup data tapes were the things that were lost. There was still film, like 16 millimeter film recovered, you know, that the astronauts shot with them.

• 1:21:01Danny Jones?

  The, like the cameras they bought personally to shoot film.

• 1:21:04Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:21:04Danny Jones?

  That all that raw film is still there.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  A hundred percent. Like, people act like, oh, all we have is this recording of the screen and they threw away all the original tapes. Like, no, this was the, they have, they didn't think they would ever have a world where they even needed these tapes. Because they had everything, you know, they had, they had the broadcast. It's not like the broadcast went cold and they lost signal. They're like, it would be great if we had that still, you know, hold on to those tapes. Make sure we have those backups because we had this 45 minute blackout because our dish went down or something. They didn't have that. So they didn't, you know, like, just like if you ever have backed up your hard drive on your computer.

• 1:21:40Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:21:41Speaker 01

  There's people that have $40 million of Bitcoin on an old hard drive because they didn't think anything of it. You know, you just, whatever, it's just not, it's not important right now. Until all of a sudden, maybe, and they didn't imagine a world where we could take and re-scan and up, you know, up-res the hell out of that, that footage as well, because it would have been a lot cleaner in that raw format. And so they learned, they learned also that the Apollo 11 broadcast was not great. So by Apollo 12, we saw incremental improvements. 13, 14, way better. By, by 14, we're starting to do, 14 or 15, we're starting to do color even from the moon. Color TV.

• 1:22:14Danny Jones?

  Has anyone ever taken that raw film from Apollo 11 that the astronauts had? And like tried to upscale it?

• 1:22:21Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah. Um, the Apollo 11 movie that it's a documented at time.

• 1:22:25Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's incredible.

• 1:22:26Speaker 01

  It's unbelievable. So a lot of that.

• 1:22:28Danny Jones?

  It's insane. I was watching it wondering like, is this just a recreation? Or did they actually upscale the raw footage?

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  So a lot, especially the ground stuff is a lot of that 70 millimeter. That's, you know, IMAX footage.

• 1:22:38Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 1:22:40Speaker 01

  Yeah. Still to this day.

• 1:22:41Danny Jones?

  Pull up a clip from that Apollo 11 documentary, dude. It looks like a, like a modern movie.

• 1:22:46Speaker 01

  Because it's, it's still one of the highest qualities of, of imagery you can get is 70 millimeter IMAX. That's why, you know, Christopher Nolan, Jonathan Nolan, they shoot on, on IMAX cameras a lot. Cause it's still like some of the highest.

• 1:22:57Danny Jones?

  They've been using that for that long.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Oh, yeah.

• 1:22:59Danny Jones?

  Nutty, bro.

• 1:23:00Speaker 01

  70 millimeter, baby. It's, it's.

• 1:23:01Danny Jones?

  I was like, these actors are phenomenal.

• 1:23:04Speaker 01

  No, it's, it's the real footage and it was a huge ordeal to be able to, you know, preserve it.

• 1:23:10Danny Jones?

  Look at this, bro.

• 1:23:11Speaker 01

  And recover it.

• 1:23:12Danny Jones?

  This is the original stuff.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  This is the real.

• 1:23:15Danny Jones?

  It looks like a Christopher Nolan movie. It really does.

• 1:23:17Speaker 01

  If you haven't watched this in particular, it is absolutely outstanding. So.

• 1:23:21Danny Jones?

  I watched it last night.

• 1:23:22Speaker 01

  Did you? Really? Oh my God. Yeah. So you understand how, how beautiful this is of a film and.

• 1:23:28Danny Jones?

  And watching Charlie Duke sitting there like, it's like, whoa.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  You sat across the table. You met that guy. And there he is in Michigan Troll as Capcom.

• 1:23:37Danny Jones?

  Even that?

• 1:23:38Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:23:39Danny Jones?

  That's real?

• 1:23:40Speaker 01

  That's real. All of this is real. Yes. And so when people say they quote unquote, lost the tapes, like, and they make it sound like, they make it sound like they lost everything from the Apollo program. They lost one set of backup tapes from, from the straight down.

• 1:23:57Danny Jones?

  Look at the fucking lighting.

• 1:23:58Speaker 01

  I know. It's unbelievable. It's like, it's art. This is as me as, as someone that goes to these rocket launches today and tries to capture, you know, I've stood in this room. This is the firing room.

• 1:24:08Danny Jones?

  Like that shot right there. That, that looks like it's on the set of a movie.

• 1:24:10Speaker 01

  She was the only woman in the entire firing room too, by the way.

• 1:24:13Danny Jones?

  Was she really?

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. Pretty crazy. So what, like for me today, I've stood in that firing room with Elon Musk and the, and at the time, the NASA administrator and, and interviewed on it. I'm sitting there going, I'm standing in this room, you know, I'm freaking out because I'm in this room where all this stuff has happened for the firing room. And yeah, so, so when people say things, just blanket like, we lost all the footage. No, we didn't at all. There's, there's actually 11,000 hours of audio because there's like every console had their own, you know, recording from every station. You can hear every single station in mission control, all the loops, all the comments back and forth. So you have multiple channels of audio. So it ends up being 11,000. People questioned me on my video. They're like, how could you have 11,000? It was like, look at all the channels of

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  audio. There's days, you know, Apollo 17 was three days on the surface of the moon. So right there is already, you know, most of these missions were, were 10 to 10 days of two weeks long. So you just have, imagine how much audio recording there is, you know, of that. It's unbelievable. And you can find, I mean, all that's up, NASA has their whole archive, or you can just literally click on all the WAV files and like download it all. I mean,

• 1:25:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's incre- it's crazy. It's crazy. The photos, the still photos are enormous.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Yes, especially that, the one website that I, it was a, um, University of Arizona scanned all the original 70 millimeter film. I mean, yeah, each of those, it's like a hundred, it's, it's multiple gigs worth of imagery. They're massive files and they are still to this day, just stunning from that Hasselblad camera. It's like art, but I really want, so there's a new NASA administrator named Jared Isaacman.

• 1:25:50Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:51Speaker 01

  I, I also, I'll kind of say he's a friend of mine. Definitely, I've met him a handful of time, phoned in his jets three times and his, uh, Alphajet and his MiG.

• 1:26:00Danny Jones?

  Really? He's got a MiG?

• 1:26:01Speaker 01

  Dude, he has, he used to own the world's largest private air force, Draken International. It's, uh, they basically cross trained against like US military. It was a cheaper way instead of the army or Navy or air force training against their own red teams, you know?

• 1:26:15Danny Jones?

  Private air force.

• 1:26:16Speaker 01

  He basically was like, hey, I can do this for a tenth the cost. I can just buy MiGs and do this for a tenth the cost. That's actually how he kind of became a billionaire was through creating Draken and counter training against US military forces. And then he sold that and started Shift4 Payment Company. So if you ever see the Shift4 little like, you know, you're paying with your watch or whatever, you know, little terminals, look at like, next time you're at like a, on like a 7-Eleven or at a state, they're in a lot of stadiums for payment, a little point of sale thing. Just look if it says shift four. That's the current NASA administrator's previous company too. Oh, wow. So he became a billionaire, started buying flights from SpaceX. He was the first private astronaut. Flights.

• 1:26:57Speaker 01

  He's done two orbital missions with SpaceX. So he bought, Inspiration Four was the first all-private civilian mission that was an orbital mission. So not just like a little, you know, hop for four minutes. They're up there for three full days and flying inside a SpaceX Dragon capsule. They removed the docking port because they weren't docking with the International Space Station, put this beautiful window, a cupola window, like the size of the diameter of this table that they could like look out and it's just stunning. Some of the coolest images. He did, he paid for that and then developed that program himself. Then after that, he kind of caught the bug and he started a new program called Polaris. And he said, the first one we want to do is we actually want to do the first commercial spacewalk. And SpaceX had

• 1:27:40Speaker 01

  never done a spacewalk. So this required developing new space suits. They would open up the Dragon capsule's hatch, depressurize the entire vehicle. So all four astronauts inside the Dragon capsule were sitting there in the vacuum of space. Only two of them ever poked their heads up and they were just doing a basic shakedown of, you know, movement of the space suit is very primitive compared to, you know, what's was coming with SpaceX developing their own EVA suits, they're called Extravehicular Activity Suits. But he developed that whole program. It took him almost two years. He flew. So he's flown twice on orbital missions. He's the first person to ever do a commercial spacewalk. So he's, he's the real deal. He's awesome. Yeah. And there's a lot of things that I'm excited for in his administration, but one of the things I want him to do is I

• 1:28:23Speaker 01

  would love for him to spearhead a better archive of all this old footage. I want every launch. I want you to be able to say, STS 107 Space Shuttle Mission, show me everything NASA has in the highest quality. Right. I think as the publicly- What better like PR thing to do? And let people- More young people than ever think the moon thing was fake. I know. Like, please just give us all of this beautiful footage. And, you know, there's still, it's so disorganized. It's so disjointed. A lot of the stuff on NASA is still like this old, like rip from like 2004, like 180p, you know, like, not even 180, like 120p, like horrible resolution. You're just like, can we please get a modern, you know, modern bit rates, modern- Archive that we can all access.

• 1:29:05Speaker 01

  Has he said what his like ultimate aim is while he's the director of NASA? Like what he wants to accomplish? He really obviously believes in the commercialization of spaceflight. He's seen the success of SpaceX and he talks a lot about Blue Origin SpaceX, you know, Stoke Space and Rocket Lab and all these other companies that are building rockets. He sees NASA's role as less, why should NASA be building rockets? You know, why like the, you know, the Air Force doesn't build planes. Right. DOT doesn't build cars. Right. You know, like, why would NASA build the vehicle? They should be building the, doing the science, doing, you know, potentially not even training astronauts anymore. That's become pretty doable now. Axiom trains astronauts, SpaceX trains astronauts, Blue Origin has an astronaut.

• 1:29:47Speaker 01

  Like, we don't need NASA to necessarily do those things anymore. Those have become attainable for the commercial market. He understands that. And I think he's pushing really hard to move NASA away from the things that the commercial industry can do. Yeah. So they can start doing the riskier developmental things, nuclear propulsion, nuclear energy on the surface of the moon. You know, instead of relying on solar panels, you could have a nuclear reactor on the moon for a moon base. Yeah. Doing bigger flagship science missions, you know, we have curiosity and we have, you know, a lot of amazing Mars rovers in the past. We have James Webb Space Telescope, Hubble Telescope. We have, you know, countless flagship missions. We have Europa Clipper, which is heading out to Europa.

• 1:30:27Speaker 01

  We have a, we have a quadcopter literally bigger than this table that's going to land on Titan with a moon of Jupiter, I think Jupiter Saturn, I forget, and fly around in its atmosphere. Cause it's that, it's only like, it's about the size of the moon. So it's about one sixth gravity and it has a thicker atmosphere than Earth. So it's actually really easy to fly around. Why? Why does it have such a, why does it have such an atmosphere? It's a, it's mostly methane. So it has, it's, so it's just the density of the, of the molecules of the air. And I don't, I don't know what exact mechanism, why it has such a thick atmosphere, why it collected so much methane. Yeah. There's liquid lakes of methane, so it's really cold. But the atmosphere is, you know, boiled off methane for the most part.

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  And you can just fly around and like, it's almost low enough that if you like, had your own like wingsuit or something, you could just fly.

• 1:31:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, wouldn't that be sick?

• 1:31:16Danny Jones?

  Good lord. So I wonder when Elon's gonna finally get us to Mars. I heard him say that the one of the biggest hurdles is that they have to figure out how to be sustain life there. Like, what happens if the ships stop coming?

• 1:31:29Speaker 01

  Oh, yes, yes.

• 1:31:30Danny Jones?

  Right, that we have to have, um, we have to be able to

• 1:31:34Speaker 01

  Be self sustaining.

• 1:31:35Danny Jones?

  Extract resources, figure out, maybe build factories there.

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  You have to have it all.

• 1:31:41Danny Jones?

  We have to figure out how to build our own shit there because we can't just rely on deliveries anymore, you know?

• 1:31:46Speaker 01

  That's so his initial vision with SpaceX was to make life multiplanetary, right? That's like the whole, you know, that's the whole like underlying theme of SpaceX.

• 1:31:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:31:56Speaker 01

  And, uh, and I, I hope that they're still abiding by that because they definitely have a lot of other projects with Starlink and potentially now AI computing in space and all these other, you know, big things. But at the, the heart of it is still the idea that, uh, they could build, if they make spaceflight cheap enough, use reusable rockets, that classic thing that I've been saying a lot. Then something like Mars is not that, uh, not that hard as far as financially. Like you just send starships to Mars if they're fully fueled in lower orbit. They have enough propellant to be able to do the entire journey to Mars. Now, there's a lot of other complications about, you know, even on the way to Mars. You have, you know, extended radiation exposure and things like that. You have cosmic background radiation. You have, um, you have zero G to contend with for six to nine months during your transit,

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  which again, isn't that, none of these things are deal breakers. We've done all of this stuff in space. It's just the culmination of all these things and the minimum trip time is, is about two years or 18 months. I think is, but it's a terrible journey. But basically two years is like the typical to Mars and back because the planets had to realign to be able to get back from Mars to Earth.

• 1:32:58Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 1:32:59Speaker 01

  And so for even to send any humans to Mars, they had to be able to survive for two years on their own, without any other sustenance, they had to be able to land on Mars. And most likely the land, the, the easiest way to do is to land on Mars empty. Literally extract propellant on the surface of Mars, fill your vehicle back up and then get back to Earth.

• 1:33:20Danny Jones?

  That's like this just like a theoretical thing or we know that that's possible.

• 1:33:24Speaker 01

  It's, I mean, it's beyond hypothesis and it's theoretically possible.

• 1:33:29Danny Jones?

  That we could, that we could extract propellant on Mars.

• 1:33:33Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:33:34Danny Jones?

  How would we do that?

• 1:33:35Speaker 01

  So what, there's actually quite a bit of water on Mars and most of it's like a saline, it's like in the, it's in the, the dirt. Like it's not just free standing water. Some of it's not even ice water. It's like literally I'm like mud. But if you can separate it out.

• 1:33:49Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:50Speaker 01

  Which is going to be somewhat energy intensive, but you can separate out the water. You can then boil off water into, you can make it using electrolysis, you can get liquid oxygen or you can get oxygen. Then you condense it down and freeze it into, to, or you know, lower its boiling point into liquid oxygen. But then you can take that hydrogen, mix it with the car, there's a lot of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere there. You can then create methane, actually, out of using a process called the Sabatier process. And you can actually get methane on Mars as well. And they actually think it's easier to do methane almost than it is to, to do hydrogen on its own because it's just more energy dense. Well, technically not more energy dense, but the specific energy is lower than hydrogen. But i- in the scheme of like getting to Mars and refueling methane seems like the right choice.

• 1:34:35Danny Jones?

  That's bonkers, bro.

• 1:34:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's, it's within the realm of, and I think this is the way that Elon and a lot of SpaceX people work is they work in the first principles theory of like, there's nothing physically impossible, right? There's not one big thing like, oh, we just had to be able to turn off gravity for five minutes. You know, there's nothing like, like that for being able to get humans to Mars. It's just the culmination of all these challenges. You have, again, you have radiation challenges that aren't massive, but they're there. You have to contend with them. There's, you know, bone density issues with long-term zero G exposure and then landing on Mars and having to, you know, it's, it's about 38% of, of Earth's gravity is, is Mars gravity. So you go from six months of zero. So you'll go from six months of zero G to, to now having to stand up and walk and, and set up your mission on, on a planet.

• 1:35:21Speaker 01

  You know, like we haven't done anything like that. When astronauts come back from six months of zero G, they're pretty.

• 1:35:26Danny Jones?

  Well, they can, they can. Well, on the space station, at least they can do things like working out, like lifting weights and stuff to maintain bone density and muscle mass. But on the trip there, can they do that?

• 1:35:39Speaker 01

  Yes, yep.

• 1:35:40Danny Jones?

  They can.

• 1:35:40Speaker 01

  Same type of thing. Yep. I mean, there's just because you are going faster, once you're done accelerating, you're in the same zero G, you know, environment.

• 1:35:48Danny Jones?

  And okay.

• 1:35:48Speaker 01

  Zero G is different than zero gravity. A lot of people will think zero G means zero gravity. It means zero G like on a gravity, on a G indicator, like a photo jet. It means like you're not accelerating anymore. So you and all your frame of reference are also not accelerating. You know, there's nothing pulling anything down. So you're all just floating. So if you're in low earth orbits, but you know, orbiting the earth, you're in zero G. If you're on your way to Mars, you're in zero G. So once you're, once you land on Mars, now you're experiencing 38% of earth's gravity. So what's that going to be like to go from zero G for six months to trying to walk and set up a, you know, a structure on Mars? The human body, lots of times it takes, you know, a few days or, you know, at least several hours to potentially a day to acclimate back to earth gravity

• 1:36:32Speaker 01

  for most astronauts that have been on the ISS for six months. So what's that going to look like, you know?

• 1:36:37Danny Jones?

  What does Elon want to do? He said he wants to detonate nukes in the atmosphere of Mars to terraform it or something?

• 1:36:42Speaker 01

  That's one option. It's like literally potentially detonate nukes over the poles. There is a lot of ice.

• 1:36:47Danny Jones?

  Over the poles, right.

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  There is a lot of ice and liquid or frozen water over the poles. If you nuked it, it could evaporate and actually start to develop a proper atmosphere. You could theoretically speed up terraforming Mars by, by, yeah, like nuking the poles. Basically. Now, there is a conspiracy theory for you.

• 1:37:09Speaker 02

  They'll create a radiated atmosphere.

• 1:37:11Speaker 01

  Well, it's already quite irradiated at this point and there's very little of it. It's only about 1% as thick as, as earth. And it doesn't, they don't, Mars, the biggest problem with Mars is it doesn't have a strong magnetosphere. So it receives a lot of solar radiation. So on the surface of Mars, you're, you're receiving less solar radiation because you're further away. So you receive about one, I think it's about a quarter of the amount of solar radiation.

• 1:37:32Danny Jones?

  Mars is closer to the sun or farther?

• 1:37:34Speaker 01

  Further from the sun.

• 1:37:34Danny Jones?

  Farther from the sun.

• 1:37:35Speaker 01

  Yep. I think.

• 1:37:36Danny Jones?

  Because it's colder. Right. Okay.

• 1:37:37Speaker 01

  I think it's. One, I think it's 1.6 AU. So I think it's either that or it's two.

• 1:37:42Danny Jones?

  It goes Venus, Earth, Mars, right?

• 1:37:44Speaker 01

  Correct. Yep. And Mercury even closer to the sun.

• 1:37:46Danny Jones?

  And Mercury's even closer. Right, right, right.

• 1:37:49Speaker 01

  So it has, it has less atmosphere, but it also receives less solar radiation than Earth does. But the surface of Earth, we have a magnetosphere. We have the atmosphere that helps us not get totally irradiated by the sun, too.

• 1:38:01Danny Jones?

  Right, right. And the magnetosphere combined with solar wind creates those Van Allen belts, right?

• 1:38:06Speaker 01

  Correct. Yeah. Yep.

• 1:38:08Danny Jones?

  Which is one of Bart's biggest claims. You can't get through the Van Allen belts.

• 1:38:11Speaker 01

  Yeah, he does claim that.

• 1:38:12Danny Jones?

  And there's lots of other astronauts that he clips.

• 1:38:15Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:38:16Danny Jones?

  Saying that we have to solve these issues before we travel.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, I called that guy.

• 1:38:20Danny Jones?

  Did you really?

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, in my video, I literally just called that guy that said that.

• 1:38:23Danny Jones?

  No. Oh, yeah, it's in your video.

• 1:38:26Speaker 01

  It's in my video.

• 1:38:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but he could have been trying to hedge.

• 1:38:28Speaker 01

  He doesn't work for NASA anymore.

• 1:38:30Danny Jones?

  Oh, he doesn't?

• 1:38:30Speaker 01

  No, he hasn't. Which is also why it was easy to just talk to him. Because if he was a...

• 1:38:34Danny Jones?

  This is him, Kelly Smith?

• 1:38:36Speaker 01

  Kelly Smith.

• 1:38:36Danny Jones?

  So what, so in this, play the video.

• 1:38:41Speaker 04

  Kelly Smith, and I work on navigation and guidance for Orion.

• 1:38:44Danny Jones?

  Sibrel.com for anyone who's curious.

• 1:38:45Speaker 04

  We are headed 3,600 miles above Earth. 15 times higher from the planet than the International Space Station.

• 1:38:57Speaker 04

  As we get further away from Earth, we'll pass through the Van Allen belts, an area of dangerous radiation.

• 1:39:04Danny Jones?

  Deadly.

• 1:39:07Speaker 04

  Radiation like this could harm the guidance systems, onboard computers, or other electronics on Orion. Naturally, we have to pass through this danger zone twice, once up and once back.

• 1:39:18Danny Jones?

  And this is, pause it. This is the, in the context of going to the moon, correct?

• 1:39:23Speaker 01

  This, his specific video that he's showing is actually...

• 1:39:26Danny Jones?

  This is Orion.

• 1:39:27Speaker 01

  Orion, but they're talking about, they're hyping up EFT-1. So notice he said, we're going 15 times further than Earth. He's talking about a test flight that happened in 2014. This was the first time Orion ever flew.

• 1:39:37Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:39:38Speaker 01

  It did not go to the moon. They were just testing the first ever flight of Orion.

• 1:39:41Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 1:39:42Speaker 01

  And it actually lingered in very high radiation portions of the van.

• 1:39:45Danny Jones?

  So it went into Van Allen, did a U-turn?

• 1:39:48Speaker 01

  Basically, it's in an orbit that the orbit intersects, like when you go out to the moon, your orbit basically just extends.

• 1:39:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:53Speaker 01

  Your rays is very elliptical, goes way up. And so you're flying through those, the Van Allen radiation belts relatively quickly.

• 1:39:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 1:39:59Speaker 01

  This orbit, basically, the slowest, and the higher you are, the height of your orbit, the slower you're physically traveling.

• 1:40:05Danny Jones?

  Sure. And that's in the belts.

• 1:40:07Speaker 01

  So they were literally like loitering right in the medias part of the Van Allen belts. There's no one on board. And they were saying like, and then also, this is like, this is the height, this is the height of NASA's sadness. The shuttle program had been ended for three years. This is the first time they're doing anything that the public's like, please, you know, people think like NASA's canceled. They're like, please, like we, I hope NASA's doing something. This is like the first time NASA was really doing something publicly. We weren't even flying humans. We had to fly through Russia at this point to get to the International Space Station on Soyuz.

• 1:40:36Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 1:40:36Speaker 01

  We were doing that up until 2020, when SpaceX returned humans to the International Space Station on SpaceX. So from 2011 until 2020, we were having to fly on the Soyuz rocket.

• 1:40:45Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 1:40:46Speaker 01

  Yeah. So this was the first time that NASA's really doing a big mission. They're trying to hype people up, explain the challenges that Orion is going to be lingering on this particular mission because it flew on a Delta IV heavy.

• 1:40:57Danny Jones?

  I thought it was interesting that when Charlie was in here, I was like, what were the conversations like with Von Braun or anyone when it was, when it was, came to traveling through the Van Allen belts or like radiation, like, he's like, I don't remember any conversations about radiation.

• 1:41:13Speaker 01

  Cause it honestly isn't actually that big of a consideration.

• 1:41:16Danny Jones?

  But like in that documentary, actually, I took a picture of it on my phone last night. I was watching the Apollo 11 documentary last night. Let me pull up this picture I took. I'll send it to you, Steve. Right here. So they were talking back to Capcom and it was going, they were going over like their health. I guess they were trying to, they had monitors on them on their suits, whatever to monitor their heart rate. And they were like, it talked about all their heart rates during launch, like throughout the mission and all this stuff. And at one point, they were transmitting their radiation levels back. So like, there it is. I took, I took this last night while I

• 1:41:56Danny Jones?

  had my TV. So it's saying Armstrong's radiation levels is 11, 11.

• 1:42:03Speaker 01

  Point 11 rad.

• 1:42:05Danny Jones?

  Point 11 rad.

• 1:42:06Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:42:07Danny Jones?

  Collins is point 10 rad. And then Aldrin's was point 09 rad.

• 1:42:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:42:12Danny Jones?

  Medication's negative means they're on no drugs.

• 1:42:14Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:42:15Danny Jones?

  I guess. So I guess that's not a deadly level of rate, but it's interesting. They were obviously recording it, right? They're paying attention to it.

• 1:42:23Speaker 01

  They were paying, yeah. And that's more of like, I think in John's mind, and especially maybe, you know, 50 years later, that's probably one of the least consequential things he was thinking about, you know, landing on the moon, you're flying at 3,000 miles an hour as you're approaching. Like, you have so many other things to worry about and doing that. That's more of like a medical director's.

• 1:42:42Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 1:42:42Speaker 01

  Job is to make sure that.

• 1:42:43Danny Jones?

  It's an invisible thing. And it's kind of out of sight, out of mind, maybe.

• 1:42:47Speaker 01

  Exactly. And like when Bart's describing, you know, all these numbers, first off, when he's saying, you know, Val's numbers, he's quoting, and the very initial findings of the Van Allen belts were from Van Allen, who's from, from Iowa, University of Iowa. Yeah. Yeah. And it was on Explorer one. It was literally one of the very first orbital missions the United States had ever done. And the saturation, they saturated the instrument. They actually had like two, they didn't, their instrument was just like reading was off the charts. They estimated, here's about what we think. And those levels after Explorer two, Explorer four, all these other subsequent missions, Luna and the Soviets missions through the Van Allen belts till they get to the moon, we refined and we, and not only did we refine those numbers, we mapped out the Van Allen radiation belts. Right? So the, the numbers

• 1:43:31Speaker 01

  that like Sabrell's always quoting is like, literally the very first finding ever, you know, it's like sticking a. Probe on a volcano going, oh, the volcano is 10 million degrees. It's like, well, yeah, maybe in that one spot that one time, you know, it's like, let's, let's get the whole picture of, of the, how the volcano actually works, all of it from the under here and there. And so we've mapped that out by the sixties, we had a really good understanding of what the belts look like. Cause we almost thought with explorer one, it seemed like it was just this entire disc, you know, like a whole, or not a disc, a whole like extra sphere around the earth. That was potentially high radiation. We didn't even know what was beyond that explorer. One didn't go that high. So it's like, oh, what if like beyond this, the radiation levels go way up beyond that even, or way up beyond, you know, we didn't know what it looked like.

• 1:44:15Speaker 01

  And it turns out the troital shapes are like donuts. Yep. Around the earth and those peak levels are like, when, you know, again, when people are quoting like the maximum level, you're talking about like in the absolute worst spot. Where if you were butt naked out there, you would receive a not healthy amount of radiation. Put on a space suit already, boom, you probably cut it in about a third. Get inside of a metal aluminum and stainless steel capsule with, you know, heat shield and, and a lot of polycarbonates and a lot of other mass between you and that. Boom. You cut it down about a hundred or whatever the number is, you know, I don't even know, it's probably realistically about a quarter or whatever. But at the end of the day, it's all about how much time you're spending in radiation.

• 1:44:57Speaker 01

  That's why, that's why, you know, nurses and x-ray technicians, they leave the room during an x-ray. It's not, it's not that that duration, you know, not that the x-ray itself, that amount that you as a patient are exposed to. Like, okay, that's totally lethal, but if you're doing that day in and day out, every day for 40 years, that's a potentially a lethal amount of x-ray exposure, right? Or radiation exposure. So it's, yeah, I love that meme where it's like, I don't know if you see they haul ass out of the room. Exactly. This is totally safe. Yeah. But it is just, if you had x-rays done every day of your life, yeah, that's not great. That is very not great. Or flew on an airplane every day. Even that pilots. Most people, a lot of people do do that. I fly often and I probably have a higher exposure to radiation than the average human does, right?

• 1:45:42Speaker 01

  But that's, it's the laws of average at the end of the day. And, and even if you spent, uh, the amount of time they spent on the way to the moon and on the way back, if they're butt naked, they receive about one, uh, one year's worth of radiation.

• 1:45:55Speaker 01

  A year, like of average radiation here on Earth.

• 1:45:58Danny Jones?

  Like, but is it true that no other human beings or or living organisms from Earth have traveled through the radiation belts except for the Apollo astronauts?

• 1:46:05Speaker 01

  Yep, basically, until about 10 days from now.

• 1:46:08Danny Jones?

  Until about 10 days from now.

• 1:46:10Speaker 01

  Wild, right?

• 1:46:11Danny Jones?

  Are they launching out of Cape Canaveral?

• 1:46:13Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:14Danny Jones?

  Wow, dude.

• 1:46:15Speaker 01

  You should pop over there. It's probably gonna be a night launch at this point.

• 1:46:18Danny Jones?

  Is it?

• 1:46:19Speaker 01

  Most of the windows, like the launch windows are at night, so it'll be really bright.

• 1:46:23Danny Jones?

  Like special access?

• 1:46:24Speaker 01

  We'll be at the press site, so we'll be like alongside CBS and like all these traditional, you know, like broadcasters, and then you'll just see us in our little production trailer and yeah.

• 1:46:34Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:46:34Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:46:35Danny Jones?

  I might go do that.

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  Dude, it's it's fun. I mean, this launch will be historic. It's the first time in 54 years that humans have left low Earth orbit.

• 1:46:42Danny Jones?

  And then the the claim to actually put step foot on the moon is gonna be how many years from now?

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  Well, SpaceX thinks they can do it by 2028.

• 1:46:50Danny Jones?

  2028?

• 1:46:50Speaker 01

  Yep, I wouldn't be surprised if it I I I think the goal should just be to beat China, which is 2030.

• 1:46:56Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 1:46:56Speaker 01

  I still think that's quite ambitious because the way they're doing it is so ambitious. Again, there's two big unproven technologies. Blue Origin's working on a little bit less. It's still massively ambitious and like three times bigger than the Apollo lunar lander, like Blue Origin's lunar lander, but that one's a little bit more like it only requires a couple of refuelings to make it work. And there's actually a version they're working on that likely doesn't need any refueling, just as like a fast track mission. Like if we want to repeat an Apollo mission, they're built, they potentially, especially with Jared Isaacman saying like, get your, let's get going, you know, let's get this going, let's get Artemis 3 going. They might be working on a smaller subscale model of, but it's still bigger.

• 1:47:34Danny Jones?

  This is Bezos's lunar lander?

• 1:47:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, Jeff Bezos. That's the original. That's not what it looks like anymore now. If you look up a Blue Ghost Mark or Blue, sorry, Blue Moon Mark 1, there we go, like that tall one.

• 1:47:47Danny Jones?

  That thing?

• 1:47:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's that's what they're working on now, basically. And that's three times more massive than what NASA landed in the 60s.

• 1:47:57Danny Jones?

  Is Blue Origin competing with SpaceX to do this?

• 1:48:01Speaker 01

  Yes. They both have contracts from NASA to be lunar landers. So it's the same like how Boeing and SpaceX got the commercial contract to take humans to the ISS.

• 1:48:12Speaker 01

  Blue Origin and SpaceX are the two contracted to land humans on the moon with their lunar landers.

• 1:48:17Danny Jones?

  So they gave each of them a certain amount of money and only one of them are going to get chosen?

• 1:48:22Speaker 01

  No, they both are chosen and they both are lunar landers.

• 1:48:25Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 1:48:26Speaker 01

  But now it's kind of the race to see who can be the first one.

• 1:48:28Danny Jones?

  Got it.

• 1:48:29Speaker 01

  But they both have like long-term contract options.

• 1:48:32Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 1:48:33Speaker 02

  Are they like interchangeable? Like do their parts connect or are they specific to them to like Blue Origin has their own like connectors?

• 1:48:43Speaker 01

  Are we gonna run out? Are you trying to say are we gonna be another Apollo 13 square peg round hole type of situation?

• 1:48:49Speaker 02

  Let's make this all universal, guys.

• 1:48:52Danny Jones?

  No, there's no way that's gonna happen.

• 1:48:53Speaker 01

  I was gonna say, I think this is probably even further away from the universal aspect. Although there might be some, because they're NASA customers, they do have access, you know, they're NASA contractors, they have access to NASA's suite of information. If they want to use a NASA technology, of course, you know, it's like, here we go. That's the beauty of these commercial contracts and working with the private sector alongside NASA's. NASA can say, hey, lean on our expertise. We have, we've done this before. Here's our, here's what we use for a CO2 scrubber. Here's what we use for a toilet. Here's our blueprints, you know, work on that. Famously SpaceX, when they first were working on a docking adapter for docking to the International Space Station, NASA actually sent them one of their docking ports.

• 1:49:36Speaker 01

  It was like, here you go, you know, careful. This is like a $30 million piece, like literally, I think a $10 million piece of hardware. And apparently the story goes, they all were like, this is really heavy and this is really expensive. What are we doing here? And SpaceX took that blueprint. They whittled it down. Literally, I think this is the one where they used, for the clamping mechanisms, they literally ended up using mountain bike springs and they built their own in-house and like. Four months or something for like dirt cheap. Yeah.

• 1:50:05Danny Jones?

  That's nuts.

• 1:50:05Speaker 01

  So it's like, you know, NASA knows what they're doing and they're going to build an incredible product, but they have no incentive to do it inexpensive and like, it's like, just make it perfect, you know, as opposed to like, make it work and make it sustainable. It's not really in the directive per se. So, yeah, so it's, uh, we'll see though, maybe there are some commonalities between, between some of these.

• 1:50:25Danny Jones?

  Have you seen that, um, that report that they're using this specific, specific fungus? That they found in Chernobyl. It's called like clatusporium. It's like a black fungus that eats radiation.

• 1:50:44Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:50:46Danny Jones?

  And they're supposed to be using this, uh, in like the future NASA missions to, um, as a radiation shield or to protect the astronauts.

• 1:50:55Speaker 01

  Whoa.

• 1:50:56Danny Jones?

  So this fungus that they discovered in Chernobyl where the meltdown was, something about this shit, they can engineer it in the spacecraft to protect them from like this exterior. Can you find this, Steve?

• 1:51:10Speaker 01

  Dude, that I haven't heard about that, but that would be, I mean, that's the type of thing that you'd almost think would balance out in nature. If there's like deadly radiation, you never know. There could be a life form out there that actually thrives on radiation, you know, and like, that would be so cool.

• 1:51:25Danny Jones?

  So, uh, this is all you could find? There was a lot, but there was a, um.

• 1:51:29Speaker 01

  There you go, BBC.

• 1:51:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah, click the BBC one. Click on that BBC article.

• 1:51:35Danny Jones?

  Uh, mysterious black fungus from Chernobyl that may eat radiation. Dude, that's that big Russian.

• 1:51:39Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:51:40Speaker 02

  Uh, low, low frequency.

• 1:51:42Danny Jones?

  Low frequency thing. Yeah.

• 1:51:43Speaker 01

  Sick.

• 1:51:44Danny Jones?

  That thing's nuts.

• 1:51:45Speaker 01

  Dude, I have been to a launch in Kazakhstan.

• 1:51:47Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 1:51:48Speaker 01

  Yeah. So Russia, cause that's where they still launch from is the bike and cosmodrome. And it is the, you feel like you are stepping back in time. It is the craziest place. Cause Bikenor two specifically is technically Russian.

• 1:51:59Danny Jones?

  When was this?

• 1:52:00Speaker 01

  This was 20, right before, it was like December 2022, right before they invaded Ukraine. So like, I think had it been even a month or two later, two months later, I think it would have been like, you guys are absolutely not coming here. Um, but I was, I, I don't know if you knew this, but I was, I was, had been chosen, uh, by a Japanese billionaire that had purchased a ride around the moon on Starship with SpaceX. And he ended up choosing 10 people to go with him. And then he canceled his ride. Because he flew, he also, it's a long story, that was called Dear Moon. And he also had already purchased a ride from Russia way back in like 2012 or something, 2013. He'd purchased a ride with Russia to fly to the International Space Station.

• 1:52:42Speaker 01

  And it took him until 2022 to do that. So he flew all of us out there to watch his launch. His name's Yusaku Miyazawa. So we go out to the Baikonur Cosmodrome. And this was right after I had produced like an hour and a half long video. That was a documentary on all the old Soviet rocket engines. Cause I just, it's like, there's hundreds of them and they're a family tree. They're all like intermingled and I could never make any sense of them. Like, why did this rocket, like, it didn't make any sense. So I made this like long family tree, long video. And so I'm nerding out because now I'm there at the heart of like the Soviet space program, Baikonur Cosmodrome. And because it's technically a Russian territory still, you don't even need your passport. When you go from Moscow to there, you literally are still in Russia.

• 1:53:22Speaker 01

  And so because it's also like in Kazakhstan, but it's Russian, they don't really care. And it still feels like it literally is in the Cold War. Like, it's like, the buildings are still just untouched. It looks like just Soviet block, everything. And you feel like you literally step back in time. It is the craziest thing. And so we go out there, we're 1.5 miles away, two and a half kilometers. That's the closest I've ever been to anything with a rocket engine that's gonna leave the ground. Like, you know, I've only been closer when it's a rocket engine test. And I'm standing there and I had heard stories about people getting even closer. Like, there's stories of people standing like 200, 300 feet away from this rocket when it launches. Cause they're Russian, they're like, ah, whatever, just, when it launches, just duck behind this thing. Light your cigarette from the fucking exhaust.

• 1:54:05Speaker 01

  Literally. And so I'm like sitting there and we're setting up. And all of a sudden, this guy comes up to us in a van and goes, do you guys wanna get closer? And I'm like, I'm already kind of like, oh, this is, this is uncomfortably close already. But I'm like, yeah, let's do it. So we, a few of us pack into this little van, start driving straight to the rocket. And I'm sitting there going, oh my God, this thing's like 40 minutes away from taking off. You know, you can see condensation pouring off of it because it's got liquid oxygen in it. You know, it's got, it's, it's got its RP1 in it and we're Just driving right up, we turn right at like the gate where the rocket would normally be like going right around it. At some point, I measured on Google Maps, I think you're only less than a quarter mile away is how close the road is to it while it's fully fueled,

• 1:54:49Speaker 01

  which is like in the US, if you drove close to a rocket that's 40 minutes away from launching and is fully fueled like that, you would have armed men like, do not get any closer, this is too dangerous, like you are in the red zone, but we're just driving right past it. We go a little bit beyond the rocket and then up on this hill and we're only a quarter mile away from the rocket. And I'm going, we are definitely too close. Like I am freaking out and I don't want to say anything because there are in a van full of people. I have like, I have footage of this and it is just Is this on your channel? Isn't. I haven't ever made like my, a video about it, but I probably should because it's a really entertaining story. And all of a sudden, right when we park, the guy that told us to get in the van, his phone rings and he's speaking in Russian for a while. And then all of a sudden

• 1:55:29Speaker 01

  he hangs up and goes, they caught us. And I'm like, what do you mean they caught us? Like, A, A, who are you? And why'd we get in your van? B, what do you mean they caught us? Are we going to like Russian jail now? Because I can't do that. I can't go to Russian prison, please. And so we're all just kind of freaking out and like, what do you mean? And we just drive back and we're driving right past the rocket again. And now we're like T minus 12 minutes or something. It's like right there. And I'm like, and I'm still nervous. We're gonna, you know, as soon as we get out of the vehicle, we're gonna get handcuffed or something. We pull right back to where he dropped, he picked us up at right at the little like press site. We get out of the van and I'm looking around. No one, no one said anything. No one cared. And we just get the hell out of there.

• 1:56:14Speaker 01

  Just, hey, yeah, what are you guys doing? Get out of there. That's nuts, dude. Literally, I had enough time to throw my camera down on the ground. We all stood and watched this launch. It was beautiful. It was really, really cool. But it's just, they do things different over there. I'll say that. Whoa. Yeah. What was that like getting into Russia? I mean, at the time. You flew into Russia and then went to Kazakhstan? Yep, you flew, we flew into Moscow and I mean, Moscow was really cool. It's a beautiful city. I would love to be able to spend time there. It's, it's nice. I mean, nothing. I think you'd still go there. Can you? I don't know where. Could be wrong. I don't know what the current, you know, ongoing situation is, but I'd love to go like St. Petersburg also looks amazing. Yeah.

• 1:56:59Speaker 01

  But yeah, I mean, it was, it was generally really nice. The people that we interacted with are super nice. I mean, it was cool. It was, it was fun for me. Again, like I just finished this big project and, you know, was excited. So I went to another aerospace museum right downtown. That was amazing. And again, had hardware that I'm like, ah, you know, freaking out. And we went to another museum at Baikonur and it was so cool. And, and, you know, I do feel like even today, you know, on the ISS right there, the International Space Station, you still have Russians and US, you know, NASA astronauts living together, living and working together. Right, right. There's on average about seven people now that, that are on station at any time. Right now, we actually have a little bit of a turnover because we just actually had a first astronaut get sick enough to have to come home early, just literally like two weeks, a week and a half ago. I don't

• 1:57:44Speaker 01

  know if you heard about that. It's the first time ever in NASA history that a mission was cut short because an astronaut had a medical issue. On the station, on the space station. While on station. Now, it wasn't, it wasn't an emergency. They made that very clear because an emergency, they can de-orbit in like hours. They can get back down. They're orbiting the earth. You're only like, you know, 350 miles, you're 500 kilometers above the earth. You're not that far up, you know, people think like, oh, it's up there, but it's, it's just that it's, it's orbiting. So you have to, you know, undock and then do all, you have a suit up, you have to undock, get the, you know, de-orbit burn and re-enter. But you can get on the ground in a few hours, right? Oh, really? Yeah. In a true emergency, like if there's a, something collided into it or a massive leak or a fire, something, they can get down on the ground in hours. So that's not the issue. So

• 1:58:28Speaker 01

  obviously they ended up taking like three or four days is how long. So it wasn't that big of an emergency. It was more of like, we have a medical issue out of an abundance of caution. We're going to bring this, the, the crew home, four, four people home. So four out of the seven astronauts came home, three, three NASA astronauts and one Soviet.

• 1:58:46Danny Jones?

  How do you get sick in outer space?

• 1:58:48Speaker 01

  I mean, it could be anything like, uh, it could be a gallstone bladder or something or like a

• 1:58:53Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:58:53Speaker 01

  Or appendicitis or something that

• 1:58:55Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right. Not a virus, just something else.

• 1:58:57Speaker 01

  Probably, and we don't know because of like HEPA, you know, this is someone's personal medical situation that you don't need to be necessary that we don't have the rights or need to know that.

• 1:59:08Danny Jones?

  Yeah, unless it's like an alien virus.

• 1:59:10Speaker 01

  Right, unless it's an alien virus.

• 1:59:11Danny Jones?

  Was that new show, the Plur- Plur- Pluribus?

• 1:59:13Speaker 01

  Yes, whatever.

• 1:59:14Danny Jones?

  Dude.

• 1:59:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:15Danny Jones?

  Have you seen that?

• 1:59:16Speaker 01

  Yes, that was incredible. I loved it. But they, uh, yeah, so they, for the first time ever, they, they brought a crew back. But so for right now, during this little period of time until, uh, February, early February, they're launching Crew 12, I think, 12 or 13. I'm already losing track. Um, they actually only have three members on the ISS, but two, two Russian cosmonauts and one NASA astronaut are still running the space station at this point. But isn't that cool? Like

• 1:59:41Danny Jones?

  How long is that space station going to be up there? Aren't they going to decommission it?

• 1:59:45Speaker 01

  They're hoping to decommission it. I, I think the latest, I forget, because it keeps getting pushed back. But I mean, it was supposed to have been de-orbited by now, especially from the original plans, like forever ago, actually. But I think 2030 is the current de-orbiter, 2028, 2030. And we're working on commercial space stations. So there's a few companies working on commercial space stations that they own and operate. And NASA could be one of many customers to come up and use it for science and other things.

• 2:00:10Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:00:10Speaker 01

  Cause again, commercial, the commercial economy is finally happening. It's finally physically and financially feasible to be able to bring your own space station up and build out your own space station cheaper than it is for NASA to continue to run the International Space Station.

• 2:00:25Danny Jones?

  And Jeff Bezos is just going to have an Amazon factory floating up there so you can get your Amazon packages delivered in an instant, straight from a rocket ship from space.

• 2:00:33Speaker 01

  Kinetic impact, Amazon delivery. I'm ready.

• 2:00:38Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Okay, so that, okay, the Russian rocket. What, so the, the Chinese billionaire decided not to do it.

• 2:00:45Speaker 01

  Japanese, yeah.

• 2:00:46Danny Jones?

  Japanese.

• 2:00:46Speaker 01

  Miyazawa, yeah, he apparently in his contract had if, so he bought it and actually, this is kind of poetic. The whole reason that I ended up making my first like stand in front of a camera and explain rocket science or a rocket thing video was February 27th, 2017. So we're coming up on nine years and it was a, a press release that SpaceX had announced that they're flying a human around the moon. Someone had purchased a ride. This is before they had ever flown a human to space. They had someone come to them to buy a ride around the moon. And the original plan was to use their Falcon Heavy, which is that one that's like three rockets kind of strapped together. I don't know if you've seen that it lands two boosters and it's really cool.

• 2:01:25Danny Jones?

  Pull up a picture.

• 2:01:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, Falcon Heavy, that, that flies, I think there's going to be four Falcon Heavy flights this year. I think all, all of them are from Florida. So if you have the chance to see one, they're super sick.

• 2:01:33Danny Jones?

  Okay, that's the, yes, yes, yes.

• 2:01:36Speaker 01

  Not the one with all those weird.

• 2:01:37Danny Jones?

  The one with the middle, right?

• 2:01:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Yep, that's the Falcon Heavy. That one's not Falcon Heavy. That looks like a Russian vehicle.

• 2:01:45Speaker 02

  Exactly the same.

• 2:01:47Speaker 01

  There you go, Falcon Heavy.

• 2:01:48Danny Jones?

  Look, look at the one of it, of it, go back, zoom out. Uh, the one of it shooting off, Asian age, down, down, right, left, there you go.

• 2:01:57Speaker 01

  Yep. So, so Yusaku Miyazawa, we've later found out, because at first it was private. They didn't know who had purchased this ride.

• 2:02:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:04Speaker 01

  Around the moon. And originally, uh, well, later we found out his name was Yusaku Miyazawa. And it was in 2018, I think he held a press conference, so about a year and a half later. And originally, the secret was that he was going to fly his then girlfriend at the time around the moon and wanted to propose to her around the moon.

• 2:02:20Danny Jones?

  Oh, my God.

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  Mm hmm. He then basically scrapped that after, well, apparently, I think when she found out about that.

• 2:02:29Danny Jones?

  On the dark side of the moon, he wanted to propose to her?

• 2:02:31Speaker 01

  Something like that, yeah. On the mission and, and basically the, the Crew Dragon capsule.

• 2:02:35Danny Jones?

  Too much money, dude.

• 2:02:37Speaker 01

  The Crew Dragon capsule, we don't know how much, it was never undisclosed how much, but it was likely two to $300 million, maybe even more, maybe more like 400 million. So that's how much he was willing to do for this. They were only capable with the Crew Dragon capsule. They were saying they could fly two people, so it was going to be him and his girlfriend. She found out and freaked out and they broke up, is my understanding.

• 2:02:57Speaker 02

  The irony.

• 2:02:58Speaker 01

  Yep. Then apparently.

• 2:03:01Danny Jones?

  Good thing he didn't do it, she would have divorced his ass like a year into that marriage.

• 2:03:04Speaker 01

  Yes. Then apparently, uh, the lore goes that he was trying to do like a dating show. When so SpaceX eventually said, hey, we're actually giving up on flying dragon around the moon. We're going to just go all in on Starship, right? This is 2018. They're starting to be like, screw Falcon Heavy, that's so last year. Like, we'll give you a whole Starship launch because this thing is way bigger. You can invite 10 people with you, whatever you want to do, it's massive. We'll give that to you at the same cost, just if you wait it out, right? That's kind of the agreement. So originally he then said, hey, I know, I'll do a dating show. Where I invite a bunch of women with me to on this moon mission. And by the end of it, I'll have a fiance or a girlfriend or something. He hadn't quite given up on this idea of proposing, right?

• 2:03:49Speaker 01

  This is, I can't believe this is a real thing.

• 2:03:52Danny Jones?

  I can.

• 2:03:53Speaker 01

  Someone, a close friend of his said, hey, that's really dumb. Like, maybe you shouldn't do that. And so he gave up on that and started this idea called Dear Moon. Which was, uh, he was going to invite, uh, eight to 12. Uh, I think of the original press conference was eight, which I was at that press conference.

• 2:04:14Speaker 01

  He said he's going to invite eight, uh, artists, you know, painters, documentarians, uh, you know, dancers, all these different people from different walks of life from all around the world to go around the moon with him. That was his original vision. I thought that was, I mean, it was beautiful. It was like this wonderful sentiment of like.

• 2:04:28Danny Jones?

  Can we find a picture of this guy? What's his name?

• 2:04:30Speaker 01

  Yusaku Miyazawa. Boom.

• 2:04:33Danny Jones?

  Damn, Steve, that was the fastest shit I've ever seen.

• 2:04:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, how old is this guy? Forty-four?

• 2:04:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:04:39Danny Jones?

  Fashion mogul.

• 2:04:40Speaker 01

  That was in 2020, 44.

• 2:04:42Danny Jones?

  Oh, so 2020.

• 2:04:43Speaker 01

  He's about 50 years old now.

• 2:04:44Danny Jones?

  Okay, got it.

• 2:04:45Speaker 01

  So he, what we didn't know, so.

• 2:04:49Danny Jones?

  How did, I want to know how he made his money. I need to know this. From fashion?

• 2:04:52Speaker 01

  Basically, yeah. He had a rock. He was basically the, the Richard Branson of, of Japan. Cause he had a record distribution like company or something first. And that's how he made his first amount of money. And then he started a project, a fashion company called Zozo, I think. And became a billionaire, one of Japan's billionaires. And so he, so he did this project and through a two-year period, then that he chose a crew, basically. So there's like this whole selection process. A million people put applications in and then it was myself and nine others and two backup that were chosen for Dear Moon. And so So you were gonna go. I was gonna go. Yeah. You're nuts.

• 2:05:34Speaker 01

  I know I'm nuts. And, and what we didn't know, the crazy thing is like, we found out at the end of, in 22, at the end of 22, before we went to Russia, that we had been selected, right? So they had whittled it down, whittled it down. And we're talking, I went to UCLA and had medical checkouts and Oh my God, dude. Yeah. So I was gonna go with Steve Aoki, around the moon. Do you know Steve Aoki? Yeah, of course I know Steve Aoki. Yeah. Olympic gold medalist, Kaitlyn Barrington, like, I mean, it was, it was crazy. And I love these people dearly. And I actually got to know them very, very well. And what we didn't know in And this was all gonna be on a TV show? Uh, no, this was just like his thing. He just wanted us all to create and he would

• 2:06:15Speaker 01

  own whatever amount we all negotiated. He'd own rights to the video or footage or dances or whatever creative things people came up with. That's a bananas. Oh yeah. And, and, and top is like a huge, I mean, that's a mega K-pop star. That's like, like huge, like has to buy his own restaurants, like out so he can go eat because otherwise he'll get mobbed in Korea. Yeah. He's like, and he's awesome. Actually. He's a super cool guy. But they, uh, so yeah. So this, this was our crew. And then what we didn't know in 22, when he, when he basically said, hey, this is you, you were selected. This guy Brendan Hall? He sounds familiar. He's a, he's a documentarian. He, he hasn't done anything that's like probably massively popular publicly, but he's made some unbelievable, I'd say he's like the underdog.

• 2:07:01Speaker 01

  Filmmaker. He's been, I mean, his, his work is incredible. He has this, he has this documentary about, uh, that's coming out about, uh, the national parks and like literally it's one of the sweetest, like I cried watching it. It's just so beaut, you know, when, when someone says, you know, I made a documentary about the national parks. Yeah. You think, oh, cool. We gotta hit this guy up. And oh, he is a, he is a delight. He is just a wonderful human and just a great storyteller. And this, this is like one of those, mm, cause it's, oh, I don't even, yeah. Maybe I'll watch this. Yeah. I don't know when it's. Florida Film Festival. Look at that. Does he live in Florida? Uh, his girlfriend's family's from here. So, or his fiance, actually they're about to get married. The trailer's not even out yet. Yeah. He's been shopping around for a while. So I think he's working on distribution and stuff.

• 2:07:44Speaker 01

  Fantastic. But anyway, so in 22, we, uh, we all find out at the end of 22 that we, that we're on this crew, right? Yeah. What we didn't know is that at the, if this mission, Starship hadn't flown the, the mission by the end of 23, that he could back out. That he, his contract was like, if you haven't flown by 2023, you can back out of this.

• 2:08:09Speaker 01

  If Starship. Starship. So that's the massive rocket that like first flew for the first time in April 2023. So he's sitting here going, okay, yeah, let's announce this to the world. He made this big announcement and you know, tells us all that we're going to the moon. And we assume like we're in it for the long haul. I'm telling everyone it's going to be a long time. Like I was telling people at that time, I was telling people, I'm thinking 27, you know, 2027, 2028, maybe they'll have this capability, but we're a long ways off. And I was, I'm always telling people it's milestone based. Ignore dates. Look for the first one we want to see is the first launch of Starship. They're doing an iterative program. So the next one we're going to look for is we want to see the next orbit. Then we need to see orbital refueling because it's Starship. It's massive.

• 2:08:50Speaker 01

  It's going to have to be refueled. Then we have to see all these things add up and then maybe we'll be getting close to us being able to fly around the moon, not landing on the moon, flying around the moon. And so if he knew that he could back out at the end of 2023, uh, that's why a lot of us have like the biggest qualms is like, none of us knew that option. I would have never signed up or let it be publicly known that I had been part of this. If I knew he could back out one year after announcing us. So that's what happened. He, he pulled his contract. He'd already flown to space, you know, in 22. I think he got his taste of it. You know, he spent eight days on the ISS. He found out the earth was flat and canceled it. Found out the earth is flat and then he canceled it.

• 2:09:32Speaker 01

  But I think for the reality is that he had already waited like nine or 11 years or whatever for Soyuz. And I think he just didn't want to get in that same situation. You know, where a company said, yeah, we'll get you up in a couple of years, you know? And then you're just waiting, waiting, waiting. I think that's the, the heart of it. Some of it might've also been financial. We don't really know. Right. You know, um, we just woke up to an email one day that's like, yo, canceled it. It was like two paragraphs. That's a bummer. And we're just all like, what? And some people had like, they had uprooted their lives for this, like, um, you know, one of the, the woman, uh, Rhiannon had already been working directly with, uh, with Polaroid to build a specific camera for her, for this mission. And like, literally she had found out and then a week later had to go speak at Polaroid, but it wasn't public yet. We were under NDA because he hadn't made his press announcement.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  So she had to sit there and like, lie to a room full of people about her upcoming mission while she's internally like heartbroken. That she just had this once in a lifetime opportunity completely stripped from her. You know, can you imagine? I mean, I'm, I'm kind of bitter about it because I've seen the effect that it had on, on a lot of the people. And you know, it's had a little bit of a personal reputation stain on myself. Like people are like still going, oh, you think you're going to the moon? It's like, I had a billionaire purchase a flight, like. Yeah. I mean, this will be the reality. This will be happening in the next five, 10 years. This will be an option that billionaires will be flying around the moon. So it's not out of the realm of possibility. Yeah. I just happen to be at the, the top of the sucker list for someone that pulling the rug out one year after the announcement, you know?

• 2:11:01Speaker 01

  So that rocket that launched from Kazakhstan, what was on that rocket? That was a Soyuz launch. Uh, so it's a Soyuz rocket with a Soyuz capsule. And it's okay, literally been flying in that same iteration since like the 1960s. Really? Yeah. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. I wonder how many rockets they send up compared to us? Uh, I think last year or something like 18 or something. And we sent SpaceX alone sent 163 or 160. Yeah. So, I mean, we're just lapping. And what about China? China's the, China's the only one that's close to even competing with SpaceX. And I think they're. Like a hundred and something as well, 140 or something.

• 2:11:37Danny Jones?

  And it's mainly satellites, right?

• 2:11:38Speaker 01

  Yep. China has a cruise space program, so they do have their own space station. They have their own spaceflight vehicle that's derived from the Russians. They literally bought plans from Russia.

• 2:11:46Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:11:47Speaker 01

  Yep. But they're working on their own stuff. That's a lot bigger, better, newer, faster, stronger. Which is why they're able to have the capability to land on the moon. And they're also going for a, I believe their plan is for a dual rocket launch, because you can just get a lot bigger stuff on the moon. You can make a, you know, Saturn V was like the most stripped down you could possibly land on the moon. It was like the most bare bones, you know, the thing that landed on the moon was so small, they had like camp in it, you know?

• 2:12:13Danny Jones?

  He said the command module was the size of this table.

• 2:12:16Speaker 01

  That's about right. Yeah. 3.9 meters wide, so less than 12 feet wide. You know, that's like, that's small. It's, it's, it was not luxurious. It was a dangerous, high-risk, bare minimum way of getting to the moon.

• 2:12:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:12:31Speaker 01

  You know, and so the next step-

• 2:12:33Danny Jones?

  It's a stunt. Basically, it was a stunt.

• 2:12:34Speaker 01

  It was a stunt, yeah. And we landed six times and everyone was over it. So when we're going back now-

• 2:12:39Danny Jones?

  We're over it.

• 2:12:40Speaker 01

  We're over it.

• 2:12:41Danny Jones?

  Back to I Love Lucy.

• 2:12:42Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Literally, like Apollo 10 even, or Apollo 12, literally, they were cancelling the broadcasts of Apollo 12 to just go back to regularly scheduled programming. Like, one mission later, we're all like, collectively, been there, done that. Like, that's, if you think our TikTok attention spans now are bad, they're just, we're still as donkey brained back in the 60s going, "Duh, give me something new," you know?

• 2:13:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:07Speaker 01

  So, so China is going back with, with a bigger, you know, bigger lunar lander, bigger crew capsule. The United States is not going back with a little lander. We're going with a skyscraper.

• 2:13:18Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:13:19Speaker 01

  We're gonna just have this insane presence on the moon that's, that's going to be extremely dominant.

• 2:13:25Danny Jones?

  Um, Steve, go back to that article about the fungus.

• 2:13:29Speaker 01

  I love this. I did not know and I I love where this is going. This is the sci fi stuff, you know, sci fi-esque stuff that gets me.

• 2:13:36Danny Jones?

  Yeah, this is some stuff from like a thriller movie. I saw a a reel that these guys did about it and they like, I mean, they like the way they presented it. It sounded like fake and then I look, I'm like, there's no way this is real. And then I looked it up and I found all these articles. I was like, no fucking way they're doing this.

• 2:13:52Speaker 01

  Sick. That's the kind of stuff that like, I love that. I love when we kind of find, like, I don't know. Have you ever watched like The Martian, uh, seen that movie, Andy Weir's The Martian?

• 2:14:03Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:14:04Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, he also has another book called Artemis, ironically. Um, and then one coming, a movie coming out from this book, uh, Project Hail Mary. And it deals, he always deals in like these things that we've, you know, we haven't ever discovered them per se. But like, there's some little like technology or some little thing that could exist in the realm of possibilities. This is like one of those things that reminds me of his writing where it's like, how cool would that be if we had this fungus that ate radiation, you know, like, I love his writing because it's just, it's, it's like, it's not like science fiction in the sense of, it could be, you know, it could all exist.

• 2:14:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:14:37Speaker 01

  There's no like hand waving, oh, can go faster than the speed of light. Here's our warp drive, you know?

• 2:14:42Danny Jones?

  Oh, this is from 2020? When's that BBC article from, Steve? What's the date on the BBC article?

• 2:14:50Danny Jones?

  2025.

• 2:14:51Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 2:14:52Danny Jones?

  So, okay, so let's read this one. Scroll down.

• 2:14:55Danny Jones?

  Punch in a little bit. Uh, mold found at the site of this Chernobyl nuclear disaster appears to be feeding off the radiation. Could we use it to shield space travelers from cosmic rays? In May 1997, uh, Neli Zardanova entered one of the most radioactive places on Earth. They abandoned ruins of Chernobyl's exploded nuclear power plant and saw that she wasn't alone. Across the ceiling walls and inside metal conduits that protected electrical cables, black mold had taken up residence in a place that was once thought to be detrimental to life. In the fields and forests outside, wolves and wild boars had rebounded in the absence of humans. Uh, but even today, there are hotspots where staggering levels of radiation can be found

• 2:15:39Danny Jones?

  due to material thrown out from the reactor when it exploded, like plants reaching for sunlight. Zardona, uh, Zaw, Zaw. Zadanova's research indicated that fungal hyphaea of the black mold seemed attracted to ionizing radiation. That's freaking nuts. So where does it talk about NASA using this? Scroll down.

• 2:16:11Danny Jones?

  Okay, here you go. It would add to the knowledge of a potentially new foundation of life on Earth. One that thrives on radiation rather than sunlight. And it would lead to scientists at NASA to consider surrounding their astronauts in walls of fungi for a durable form of life support.

• 2:16:31Speaker 01

  That's sick. But now imagine this. Hey, guys, we have the cure to radiation. We're just gonna throw a bunch of black mold in your spacecraft.

• 2:16:38Danny Jones?

  Right?

• 2:16:40Danny Jones?

  Well, what does this say? Their cell walls were packed with melanin?

• 2:16:46Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 2:16:47Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 2:16:49Speaker 01

  That's cool.

• 2:16:49Danny Jones?

  Just as darker skin protects ourselves from ultraviolet radiation. So I don't suspect that the melanin of these fungi were acting as a shield against ionizing radiation.

• 2:17:02Speaker 01

  That's really cool.

• 2:17:03Danny Jones?

  You know, that's another thing about the astronauts in the space station because they, you know, human beings were evolved to thrive off melanin from the sun, right? The sunlight. And when you're in there, you are completely shielded from sunlight. So there's like all of these crazy things that happen to your mitochondria, negative things that happen to the human mitochondria when you're not exposed to that stuff. And one of the things that happens is apparently a lot of these guys come back with like severe low testosterone. Because all of the... Like the biomechanics of the human body, your certain hormones, like you don't have vitamin

• 2:17:45Danny Jones?

  D, which leads to the production of testosterone and all these other things can inhibit your mitochondrial health, which is crazy.

• 2:17:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:17:54Danny Jones?

  So if they can come up with things like that, like UV, they now sell like UV light panels that you can get that like literally emit UV, you can get a tan.

• 2:18:04Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:18:04Danny Jones?

  So like, I wonder if there's a way they can probably include those to keep those astronauts healthy out there.

• 2:18:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, and frankly, a window I think can do a good amount of that, too. The big thing that you're constantly balancing with any spacecraft is if you're bringing, if you have a window, you're creating, you're bringing a lot of heat as well. So, you know, you have that direct radiative heat coming in, getting trapped behind the glass, you know, it's warming up the air inside the spacecraft. And you'll notice, and even Charlie Duke mentioned this on your podcast where you're talking about the barbecue roll. That's a thing they would do where the vehicle, especially on the way out to the moon, they'd keep it in this persistent roll so that, so that not one side of the spacecraft was constantly getting bombarded with heat and the other side.

• 2:18:48Danny Jones?

  The right.

• 2:18:49Speaker 01

  Thermal load of the vehicle. Cause otherwise even like the metals can start to expand on one side and shrink on the other. Cause you know, it's, it's on the opposite side where it's shielded from the sun. It's, it's radiating heat out away. So it's taking all the heat, you know, it all has to be equilibrium balance. You know, you have heat coming in and you have an ability to take heat away just through radiation. So, and not like, you know, deadly radiation like we think, just literally heat radiates. You know, there's three forms of heat transfer, radiative, conductive and convection. And conductive is when you grab something, radiation is when you like feel heat coming off of like a heat lamp, even though you're below it, you know, and convection is when you feel in the air. So in space, radiation, heat heats up a spacecraft and they, so for Apollo, the simplest thing

• 2:19:33Speaker 01

  they did was just barbecue roll. So it stays thermally consistent throughout the vehicle. But yeah, I mean, there's so many things, you could have a big giant window as a, you know, a tanning bed or something, a way to receive sunlight, but then you have a lot of thermal considerations. Okay, now you have. To now the inside of the spacecraft is all the air inside it's warmed up. Now we have to have a big radiator out the back that radiates that heat away. So we don't boil our astronauts alive and stuff like that.

• 2:20:00Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 2:20:01Speaker 01

  It's all as spaceflight is like the ultimate trade. Everything is a trade for something else. You can, you can make a, you can make a giant skyscraper land on the moon. But your trade is you better have the ability to refuel in low earth orbit 15 times. Be able to make that happen, you know? Or the other option is if you don't want to do that, you have to build a rocket big enough to launch that thing off the earth in one shot. And now you're talking about if the Saturn V was 111 meters tall or Starship's 120 meters tall. Now you're talking about a rocket that's, you know, 3,000 meters tall or something, you know, and the size of a city block in order to launch that in one launch. Like, that's just not feasible. It's a lot more sensible that the trade in that situation is break this thing up into multiple missions, refuel it. I mean, that's the whole, that's what I love about aerospace is when you learn any minutia,

• 2:20:44Speaker 01

  when you ask that question of why, it's always fun to see the opposite side of that trade and go to the other extremes of that trade and then learn like this is an art, you know? These are people's jobs, literally just like studying, you know? A lot of people are afraid of the full flow stage combustion cycle that SpaceX developed because it's so complicated. It's timing has to be like perfect because it the, there's two fuel pumps. You have one fuel pump that runs off of a turbine that runs on the methane and it's methylox rich. You have another pump that runs all the oxygen and the turbine is oxygen rich. And these two things have to spin up perfectly within sync, within like a hundred RPM out of 30,000 or 40,000 RPM in milliseconds accuracy.

• 2:21:27Speaker 01

  And if they feed each other even off by a tiny bit, you blow up your engine. And so like, that's the trade is like, sure, you can make this beautifully efficient, high powered, you know, extremely complex rocket engine that actually on paper is great. Like it's the most efficient, it's the, you're not wasting any propellant. You can get the highest pressure inside the combustion chamber. You can have the lowest temperatures across the turbines. You have all these things, but if you get it wrong, you're screwed.

• 2:21:53Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:21:54Speaker 01

  And the developmental process of that has been, has been thought to be almost just not worth it. Like, you know, the Soviets developed it in the 1960s and 70s with the RD270. The United States developed a powerhead that was just the, not the combustion chamber, but just the power pack. Said eh, not worth it. And then Elon was like, hey, we have to have this because it's the best. Basically, everyone's like, no, no, no. We're doing good enough with our gas generator on our Merlin. We don't need, we don't need the full flow stage combustion cycle. And he's like, no, no, no, but it's the best, you know? And it physically is. The trade is just like, you're going to blow up a lot of hardware to make this thing work.

• 2:22:29Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:22:29Speaker 01

  And they did.

• 2:22:30Danny Jones?

  And they did.

• 2:22:30Speaker 01

  They did.

• 2:22:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:22:31Speaker 01

  And now they've got this thing.

• 2:22:32Danny Jones?

  Bankrupt, right?

• 2:22:33Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, they're constant, because they're constantly reinvesting their, I mean, almost always at the verge of bankruptcy. That's how Elon's always like, next, next double down. So that's Raptor. When I first saw it, and the first thing that I ever saw fly was Raptor 1 on, on Starhopper, it was called, is literally like a water tank. They stuck this thing up underneath just to learn how to kind of start operating the engine. And so that's Raptor 1. That was the first full flow stage combustion cycle to ever physically fly at all. Then they kind of started cleaning it up and Raptor 2 is what flew on the first Starships and super heavy. The super heavy booster has 33 of these engines.

• 2:23:09Danny Jones?

  Of the twos?

• 2:23:09Speaker 01

  Of the, of the twos so far. And now they're going to Raptor 3. And notice how like each one has less and less pipes. That's not like a render. That's what it actually looks like on the right. So the first one on the left, they have sensors, like temperature and pressure sensors and all these sensors all over the engine. So they can learn like as they're firing it, like, oh, we, this transient here is a little bit off, or we have to open this valve a little sooner, whatever. Raptor 2, they cleaned it all up. And that already by in aerospace standards was like, holy crap, look at how much they evolved that thing. Look how simple it looks. Yet that's the most advanced rocket engine ever built. Compare that to an RS25, the space shuttle engine, which, which is on SLS. Like, that looks like a clean, clean, clean engine.

• 2:23:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:23:52Speaker 01

  And then they're like, hold my beer. We're not even close to done. Look at Raptor 3. They put all that stuff internally. It's all internally cool. All these valves and stuff are in like a, that's the engine right there. And that will fly for the first time here in hopefully a couple of months.

• 2:24:06Danny Jones?

  Oh, that one hasn't flown.

• 2:24:07Speaker 01

  Has not flown yet.

• 2:24:08Danny Jones?

  How many Raptor 3s are on?

• 2:24:10Speaker 01

  It'll be 33 again on the booster.

• 2:24:11Danny Jones?

  30. Yeah. Always that 33.

• 2:24:15Speaker 01

  Well, you know what's crazy is 42 is the number of whatever it's like the answer to everything or whatever on Hitchhiker's Guide to the Universe and Elon loves the number 42. It's kind of been prevalent. If they soon another version of Starship right now, the upper state has six engines, has three vacuum engines and three sea level engines. They'll be moving to six vacuum engines and three sea level engines. So it the whole vehicle with 33 on the booster and nine up top will have 42 engines. Therefore, the answer to life and everything. Wow, that's a sacred number. Sacred number, baby. I gotta pee real quick. I have to pee too. We'll be right back. Have you seen footage of Starship launching and or landing? I think so. I've seen the thing that the video of it like catching it. Yeah,

• 2:24:59Speaker 01

  yeah. If instead of zibral.com, if you sorry, if you go to if you go to Everyday Astronaut, actually, we've have really good slow mo footage. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. Do Starship. How many people do you bring out in your camera crew? About anywhere between six and 10. Actually, go to no, go to videos and go to the just scroll down a little bit. You'll see probably Flight 7 would be a pretty good one. The Starship Flight 7 on the Yeah, that one. So, yeah, it's a So what frame rate do you shoot this out in slow mo? So this one would be 120 frames a second. We have one camera that shoots 1000 frames a

• 2:25:41Speaker 01

  second, but most of our stuff's gonna be 4K 120. Right. But we've been employing a whole bunch of fun, fun cameras. The catch is just to yeah, like do this, do that landing track pad.

• 2:25:56Speaker 01

  Go left a little bit, actually, that one more, one more, right there, landing track. Go like, watch the V. Oh, that's nuts, bro.

• 2:26:07Speaker 01

  And this is where, this is in Titusville? This is, uh, no, this is out in Brownsville. So this is Texas. Oh, wow. Go back even further, you can just watch that come in and stuff. Yeah, it has to come in at such a crazy angle. Yeah, the bottom of it pivots, the bottom of the, the. So that's called gimbaling, yep. And that's how, you know, you're basically like steering a broomstick, you know, like if you're holding a broomstick with your hand and you're like trying to move it, that's what they're doing basically. They're, uh. This is all manual? No, this is all completely autonomous. Completely autonomous. And this thing, by the way, this vehicle is, this has a 33 engines on the bottom. If you, and if you scroll to the, like, later on, we have closer shots of this. Mm-hmm. Has 33 engines on the bottom. It's, uh,

• 2:26:50Speaker 01

  uh, these engines then steer, it's 30 feet wide, so it's nine meters wide. 30 feet, that's, that booster wouldn't even fit width-wise in this room. It's 70 meters tall, so 220 feet tall or whatever. Good lord. And it's absolutely massive. And that's the same launch tower that picks it up and puts it onto the launch mount. They're using those same arms to catch this vehicle. So the vehicle doesn't have to have landing legs, because the Falcon 9 has landing legs, but that's like, you know, a non-in, that's like, you know, probably adds 5% of your land, your mass of the vehicle, just adding landing legs. So the idea was like, what if we just didn't have to have landing legs? What if we put, in a sense, almost put the landing legs on the ground? Hmm.

• 2:27:33Speaker 01

  And had the rocket land on it. And that's what they decided to do. Oh, this shot's sick. Let it, let it run here. This is the best one. This one's insane. Right here? Yes. This is our shot too. Like, we are tracking this. Oh, this is real speed? Yes, this is in real time.

• 2:27:50Speaker 01

  Is there any audio? Yeah, there's audio.

• 2:28:03Speaker 01

  So yeah, I can see the engines gimbling there to help steer it. This was the second time they caught one. So they've caught three so far to date.

• 2:28:14Speaker 01

  Of this rocket? Of this particular rocket vehicle. They've only reused one so far. But these have all been just test flights. These are all, you know, where they're trying, they're pushing the boundaries on these. So they're not always catching them. They're not always. They have the reentry is in the upper stage. Starship is the, the top part of the whole rocket's like Starship. Yeah. But it's like Starship on super heavy kind of. Yep. And so Starship, the upper stage, they're still working on like how to re-enter because that's actually a lot of re-enter from orbit. Cause this is just suborbital, never exceeds, never gets into orbital velocity. Right. Maximum velocity, something like 3,000. You know, kilometers an hour, 4,000 kilometers an hour, something like that. And so the heat that it experiences is far, far, far less. Right. Than what an orbital vehicle does.

• 2:29:00Speaker 01

  So they've only reused one of these? They've reused, if re-flown one so far, maybe twice now, actually, because I, on flight 10. No, flight nine, they, they re-flew one. And I think flight 11, they also re-flew one.

• 2:29:13Speaker 01

  But I mean, they're getting to the point of like, so this was, this is the end of the version two. So that version two rocket engine that you saw. Yeah. Last flew on, on this. So this is the end of the version two era. Now they're moving into version three and version three Starship. So Raptor three on version three Starship. And this is going to be, hopefully, they've had some teething pains because this is extremely ambitious. But hopefully version three is like what finally unlocks all of the things that they're trying to do. So hopefully it's all the, oh, by the way, do you see the UFO? I did see something. What was that? You'll see it again. It's an unidentified flying object for some people. But it's actually a, it's a border patrol asset there at Brownsville. It's actually on South Padre Island and it's, uh, to. That little thing up there, the blurry thing?

• 2:29:58Speaker 01

  Yep. It's a, it's a blimp, basically. It's a dirigible. It's tied down, but it's really high up. It's like a thousand feet in the air or something and it, and they have this camera on it. And radar and stuff and they're tracking marine traffic to look for drug smuggling and stuff. But it's so funny because it happens to be perfectly in line with this camera for us. So when people see our slow mo footage, like, what is that thing? Did you guys see that? The UFO? It's like, sure, it's unidentified to you, but we actually know exactly what that happens to be. But yeah, so so version three, when it's flying, hopefully this they have not yet deployed anything into orbit. The vehicle is technically not gotten into orbit. They intentionally leave it a little bit short because the last thing they want to do is get this 120 ton, you know, stainless steel vehicle up into orbit and all of a sudden have a problem like, oh, we can't

• 2:30:41Speaker 01

  get it back down because it would reenter uncontrolled. It could land on us.

• 2:30:44Danny Jones?

  Anywhere.

• 2:30:45Speaker 01

  Anywhere. So reenter in pieces and huge chunks of stainless steel.

• 2:30:49Danny Jones?

  Now, don't they have like NRO do all kinds of reconnaissance on these launches like with drones and satellites? They have cameras on it all over the place.

• 2:30:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, on on like, I mean, on. So yeah, there's range assets that will track these rockets. And actually, we provide that really tight shot. You just saw we actually provide that to SpaceX during launches.

• 2:31:09Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 2:31:10Speaker 01

  Because they there's not a lot of optical tracking out there at the Cape here in Vandenberg out in, you know, out on the West Coast. Those have the old school like huge tracking trucks, you know, and they're, you know, they can lean on those assets out there. They can hire the range to do those things. And that's actually now under the US Space Force, they do those tracking assets.

• 2:31:28Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:31:29Speaker 01

  For us, and out at Starbase there, it's like SpaceX is private land. So they operate a private range. So they have their own tracking assets and we actually provide our tracking in for them as well, too.

• 2:31:42Danny Jones?

  I saw a Space Force van like across the street from here one day, a long time ago, like on the beach.

• 2:31:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, probably a recruiting van or something. Yeah, because they basically took the air, the Air Force used to operate space vehicles, you know, they have their own spy satellites and network communications and a lot of space assets. And it's been, you know, people wanted to make it the Space Force because it's like, at one point, the Army did all the planes. And eventually like, well, we can need like a separate branch for the flying things. And they called it the Air Force. And now it's like, why was the Air Force operating space things? So now the branch out of the Space Force. So a lot of people that work at Space Force are, you know, they're they're called guardians instead of, you know, like a naval, I can't think of all the different, you know, marine or whatever. They're called guardians. And they basically, a lot of the times, they're operating a lot of like, safety of the of the

• 2:32:32Speaker 01

  range, but they're also operating a lot of satellites and doing a lot of that kind of stuff.

• 2:32:35Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:32:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there's just another branch of the military now.

• 2:32:38Danny Jones?

  That's bananas. So you think they were probably doing recruiting stuff?

• 2:32:42Speaker 01

  If you're just seeing a labeled van that says Space Force, yeah, it's probably something.

• 2:32:45Danny Jones?

  On the beach?

• 2:32:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, on the beach.

• 2:32:47Danny Jones?

  Hey, you, you want to fly satellites, you know?

• 2:32:49Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 2:32:50Danny Jones?

  God, that's bananas, dude.

• 2:32:51Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:32:52Danny Jones?

  The, um, the other crazy thing, like, especially like when it comes to like all of the, all of the launches historically, like with NASA, i- is they, like, the, the mission patches and stuff like that, they're all like, the iconography and the symbolism, like really, and even the naming of all this stuff to like ancient Greek mythology.

• 2:33:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33:12Danny Jones?

  What is that all about?

• 2:33:14Speaker 01

  No idea. And same, if you think that's weird, if you see like the N R O L stuff, like, there's always like weird, like seeing eye things and like.

• 2:33:21Danny Jones?

  What about the N R O L sixteen one where it has Bigfoot? It has Bigfoot and like a pelican on there.

• 2:33:28Speaker 01

  Who knows?

• 2:33:28Danny Jones?

  Put it, pull up the N R O L sixteen patch.

• 2:33:31Speaker 01

  It is? I think half.

• 2:33:33Danny Jones?

  Top left.

• 2:33:37Danny Jones?

  What is that?

• 2:33:38Speaker 01

  That looks more like.

• 2:33:39Danny Jones?

  National Reconnaissance Office. It's either that or it's Optimus Primal.

• 2:33:45Speaker 01

  Yeah, I have no idea. And I think, what if half of it is, A, to confuse the hell out of anyone looking into these things, like, you know, foreign, intelligence, things like that, but also like, hey, you want in the club, you know, join the Space Force now. You get to see what this patch is about. Like, what if it's like a low key, just like,

• 2:34:02Danny Jones?

  A recruiting.

• 2:34:03Speaker 01

  Recruiting effort of like, hey, you can, we'll unlock, and then you get there and they're like, oh yeah, Bob over there, uh, his, his son has a, a toy that looks like this.

• 2:34:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:34:12Speaker 01

  Patch. Like, it's like the most nonchalant thing, but you know, I don't know, you never know. And yeah, I like to, I like to think it'd be, it's funnier to me if it's hilariously, nondescript and means absolutely nothing.

• 2:34:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I mean, there's gotta be like, with all the satellites that are getting launched into space with SpaceX and everyone, like all this other stuff, like, a lot of it has to be, you know, super top secret stuff they're doing up there, like weapons, defense, or, um, you know, apparently they have like lasers up there on satellites that can shoot nukes out of the sky, or like I C B Ms.

• 2:34:41Speaker 01

  Maybe, yeah.

• 2:34:42Danny Jones?

  Divert I C B Ms and stuff like this. I'm pretty sure this is like declassified stuff.

• 2:34:46Speaker 01

  Probably, yeah. And one of the big things now that the huge thing that SpaceX is, sorry, I mentioned SpaceX just because they fly more often than absolutely anything, period.

• 2:34:54Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:34:54Speaker 01

  But they, you know, with Starlink, they also offer a military version called Starshield. It's basically this using the same like satellite bus, and they can say, hey, you know, because they have, like I said, over 10,000 Starlink satellites, no big deal for them to throw some Starshield up ones. And those ones might have, instead of being all communications, they might have tracking assets or whatever else, you know, is advantageous, but. That's a huge military, like, you know, upper, upper hand is to be able to have thousands of satellites that can be over any point at any time, you know, because now they cover the earth and, you know, you could literally say, I want constant eyes on this spot, you know, and now we've, we've been able to do that with geostationary orbits, like the further out you are, so, you know, an orbit that's close to earth, you're, you're every

• 2:35:39Speaker 01

  90 minutes, the bigger your orbit is, the, the longer it takes you to go around. If you get out to, I think it's about 36,000 kilometers or somewhere around there is where geostationary orbit is and your orbital period is one day. So that's where a lot of the spy satellites actually are.

• 2:35:52Danny Jones?

  They're farther.

• 2:35:53Speaker 01

  They're really far away, which means they have to be huge, which means they have to have huge optics. It also means they're limited on like how resolute they can get, how much resolution they can actually get from 36,000 kilometers away.

• 2:36:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:36:05Speaker 01

  But they're always pointed. So because they're always pointed, you know, and lined up with earth, they could be staring at one point on the ground 24/7, right? But it's, like I said, there's big limitations there. Now, if you bring that constantly, if you bring, instead of that one that's able to always see that spot, if you did a low earth orbit thing, you're only over the sky for about four minutes.

• 2:36:26Danny Jones?

  It's zooming, it's whizzing.

• 2:36:28Speaker 01

  It's whizzing by, and because of how close it is, just your field of view, it's like from horizon to horizon, it's only in the sky for four minutes. So you have to have, if it takes 90 minutes, you have to have 90 minutes divided by four amount of satellites to be able to have constant visual line of sight in that orbit. And so Starlink actually is to the point where you can have, you know, enough orbital, you know, services and orbital line of sight to anywhere on the planet. That's why Starlink as a user works. If you have a, you know, for, for internet, like, there's always at least multiple Starlink satellites flying over you to be able to get you data. And instead of data, you can just have, you know, spy assets.

• 2:37:06Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah. And I'm sure there's, there's locations all over the world that they have to be pinpointed on at all times, like North Korea, Russia, China, just to make sure there's no ICBMs getting launched. What is this? Oh, SpaceX is currently losing or re or de-orbiting one to five Starlink satellites per day. Oh, wow. So what, they're crashing them into the ocean?

• 2:37:30Speaker 01

  They actually are fully demisable, so they're made out of materials that are, won't make it all the way through re-entry. So they intentionally will burn up on re-entry.

• 2:37:38Danny Jones?

  Oh, they'll burn up. Oh, wow.

• 2:37:39Speaker 01

  So that nothing, no mass basically makes it down to the ground. And that's for public safety. Because if you lose, you know, one of these 11,000 satellites, you don't want these things crashing down on people's houses.

• 2:37:49Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:37:49Speaker 01

  So they're, they're made out of materials that are intentionally demisable, like, so that's a space safety thing. A lot more companies are starting to think this way that like, hey, if we have all this stuff up here, at some point, it's, you know, especially in low Earth orbit, it will come down. If you're further out, like geostationary orbit, those are out there forever. You'll never see, you know? But in low Earth orbit, you know, the, the rate of decay is, is months for, for re-entry. So, so these ones, if they die, so for the most part, they try to do it preemptively and they'll intentionally de-orbit. But there have been some that they lose contact with and then just let it decay. And within three to five, six months, they're de-orbited and they're gone.

• 2:38:26Danny Jones?

  Dude, we had this guy on the other day who was telling us a story about his friend who got, uh, he, he was the leader of this mission called Osiris Rex.

• 2:38:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:38:37Danny Jones?

  You heard of that?

• 2:38:37Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, I know Osiris Rex.

• 2:38:38Danny Jones?

  Where they, they landed something on this asteroid, Benu, yeah, to try to find life.

• 2:38:45Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. They're always looking for life. NASA's the ultimate, like, let's find life, let's find aliens. Like, that's almost the entire point of NASA is like trying to discover our universe, you know?

• 2:38:54Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:38:56Danny Jones?

  Which is why, I wonder, like, did they, they found some weird thing, right? Like a weird protein or something?

• 2:39:02Speaker 01

  Glucose, they found.

• 2:39:03Danny Jones?

  Gum is too, right? Some sort of gum?

• 2:39:05Speaker 01

  Basically sugars. They found different sugars that could be like RNA and glucose. And these are the building, potential building blocks of life. They found, uh, some of this stuff on this asteroid, which is like, now we're starting to, now we're starting to put the puzzle pieces together of like, you know, life.

• 2:39:21Danny Jones?

  And this asteroid was not interstellar though, right? This Benu asteroid was one that was in our galaxy or in our solar.

• 2:39:27Speaker 01

  Earth asteroid, yeah.

• 2:39:28Danny Jones?

  Not necessarily the solar, in our solar system.

• 2:39:31Speaker 01

  Yep, in our solar system.

• 2:39:31Danny Jones?

  In our solar system, okay.

• 2:39:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 2:39:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that was kind of bananas.

• 2:39:35Speaker 01

  It is. And this, I mean, this, what's funny is this mission launched, I think in 2016 or 17, landed in 22 or 20, I think it landed in 2023. So it's been, we've had the samples back this long, but that's how long like the scientific process takes to be able to get samples out to universities to actually study it, you know, get it under there with a microscope and all the other fine things and look through all the samples. I mean, they brought back a good amount. I think it was almost a pound. I think it was, I think it was almost a pound or maybe more of material. Maybe it's half a pound, a good amount. And to actually go through all that material, the one actually look at like, is there anything unique in any of these samples? Like any tiny bit of particle? Is there anything laying in there? And to find something out of the ordinary, you know, I would call it fairly

• 2:40:19Speaker 01

  extraordinary in these circumstances for when just a bunch of rock dust, you're starting to see sugars that, you know, we've never seen in space before. Like, that's exciting.

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• 2:41:55Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I really, I mean, also, if you can get, if you can find like minerals and resources and stuff on these asteroids that you can use, uh, you know, do you put people on there or something like that? I mean, I don't know how possible that is, but like...

• 2:42:09Speaker 01

  The big one, there's a company called Astroforge who's working on mining asteroids, basically. Their whole thesis is, hey, there's more valuable rare earth, what are rare earth materials here are quite abundant out in space. If we just bring back, you know, a few payloads of this stuff and we start bringing back, you know, 1,000 pounds of platinum, like, you know, that's gonna be worth profitable compared to, uh, you know, compared to the cost of launching it these days.

• 2:42:36Danny Jones?

  Now, are these guys working with NASA?

• 2:42:38Speaker 01

  So they're not, I don't know if they have any NASA contracts.

• 2:42:41Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 2:42:42Speaker 01

  So they're a private company based out of Long Beach or Seal Beach, I think technically. And, um, yeah, I mean, it's, it's all private enterprise. They're trying to make a profit from retrieving material from an asteroid, which was not possible. Like this, this whole space economy is happening because we have lower launch costs and because there's more people making hardware. This hardware like this no longer is like this completely unheard of, unfathomable thing. Now we can buy a StarTracker, which helps navigate in space, off the shelf. There's a catalog for it, like Rocket Lab makes, you can just, or call them up and say, "Hey, I need a StarTracker," and they can get one in a week. You know, like, it's like Amazon, it's like Amazon or...

• 2:43:21Danny Jones?

  StarTracker.

• 2:43:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's like a, a way to navigate in space. And... Like you can buy these things off the shelf now and and 20 years ago, it's like one company, almost everything was individually made, one off for like every mission almost. There's very little commonality or commercialization, like maybe one company had their own in-house built in star tracker and K U band antenna and you know, GPS module, whatever, whatever things they would have and they would kind of pull from their own inventory that they built. But now it's like, you don't have to do that anymore. You can build a satellite. Mark Rober launched a satellite last January called Satgus. It was a selfie set. A selfie set?

• 2:44:02Speaker 01

  You can literally upload your photo and it will take a picture, it'll put your photo on a screen and then on that screen, it has a camera that takes a picture of the screen. So you can see yourself in space. Oh my God, dude. How, I mean, I know that sounds silly and I know it sounds kind of like frivolous and stuff. That's, that's the decline of civilization. I actually think it's incredible because if you pause on it for a second and think about how many kids now, he has a huge audience for kids. Really? Oh, it's massive. Mark what? Mark Rober, the 10th, like top 10 biggest YouTubers. I think he has like 100 million subscribers or something. Whoa. He's worth 50 million. He's way up there. You know, he's, he's one of the top, like, have you ever seen like those glitter bomb videos? He's a former NASA engineer. He's, he's up, you've seen his stuff, like at some point. Pull him up.

• 2:44:47Speaker 01

  You had to have. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, so the idea is now he has, you know, 100 million kids saw this idea that like, hey, you could build a satellite. You can upload, I can see myself in space. He did an amazing job of showing how they built the satellite, how it launched on a Falcon 9, on a rideshare mission. I think this could have done more to impact a young generation, as silly as it is. And I mean, this is probably, he probably did this for less than $2 million, which is crazy. That's insane. Like, if you could have said 20 years ago that for $2 million, you can launch a, your own satellite, you'd have been laughed out of the room.

• 2:45:27Danny Jones?

  So this is a photo of like a real photo of his selfie on a screen in outer space.

• 2:45:34Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 2:45:35Danny Jones?

  And you have to pay for this?

• 2:45:36Speaker 01

  Nope. The waitlist now is like two years though, or something.

• 2:45:40Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 2:45:41Speaker 01

  It can only operate during a certain, you know, windows and has a downlink capability and all this stuff. So, but it's orbiting, it's in orbit and.

• 2:45:48Danny Jones?

  That's insane, dude.

• 2:45:49Speaker 02

  Is he the owner of Crunch Labs?

• 2:45:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 2:45:51Speaker 02

  That's that little kid's box.

• 2:45:53Speaker 01

  Like, yeah, like where you.

• 2:45:55Danny Jones?

  Oh, the one that the guy brought in the other day?

• 2:45:57Speaker 01

  Uh, I think.

• 2:45:58Danny Jones?

  With his kid?

• 2:45:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was something like that. Yeah.

• 2:45:59Danny Jones?

  Oh shit.

• 2:46:01Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:46:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:02Speaker 02

  I think they have a kids show that they have the kids do those boxes or some type of building.

• 2:46:07Speaker 01

  Probably. He's, he's a mega, like he's, he's huge.

• 2:46:13Danny Jones?

  How much attention did you pay to, um, how close of attention did you pay to the, um, the three I atlas thing? The interstellar objects?

• 2:46:24Speaker 01

  A decent amount. I saw a lot of, I mean, it was definitely making its rounds on social media, but.

• 2:46:28Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:46:29Speaker 01

  I mean, and it has some cool things. It's, we haven't tracked that many interstellar objects before.

• 2:46:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah, well, three, right?

• 2:46:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think this is, is that what it is? Three I? I never realized it.

• 2:46:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:46:41Speaker 01

  Okay. I didn't track it enough to even realize that it was in the nomenclature there, but, uh, yeah, I mean, I, I think this is going to become more common, you know?

• 2:46:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah, now that we can see them.

• 2:46:49Speaker 01

  Now that we have better instrumentation, you know, um, that's the beautiful thing about our species is we just keep going. You know, like we once, when we first found one exoplanet, we thought like, oh, maybe it all of a sudden we're up to like thousands, hundreds of thousands of exoplanets. We look, everywhere we look, we find them now that we have the right instrumentation to discover them.

• 2:47:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:47:06Speaker 01

  So I think like this, uh, interstellar objects will become more common, you know, like we'll, we know how to find them and we'll just keep finding them. So I don't think there's anything, nothing that I've heard that was necessarily that like extraordinary about it, you know, other than the fact that it is interstellar. So it's relatively novel for us at this point.

• 2:47:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Well, he said it had like, one of the biggest things that he was claiming was like the direction it was coming from was the same direction as the wow signal. And also it had like an anti-tail or something like a tail that faced towards the sun, which I guess is kind of extremely rare.

• 2:47:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't think we've so I think from what I'd read that so that actually makes sense because if the sun, the heat is, you know, expanding any trapped gases or any trapped, you know, if you have ice or anything like that, too, that that would actually be the point of where I'd want to eject is obviously the point of heat, you know, so so that actually makes sense. But I don't know if we've observed it in this exact way. I don't. Yeah, I don't know a ton about it.

• 2:48:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, there was. There was a lot of. There was a lot of polarization on it online with people.

• 2:48:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:48:08Danny Jones?

  Like it's saying that he was being a little bit too open minded about it, potentially being an alien of origin.

• 2:48:14Speaker 01

  Who said that?

• 2:48:14Danny Jones?

  A lot of people were accusing Avi of being a little too generous with his assumption that it could be an alien craft or something. I mean, he made some crazy. He said some crazy stuff.

• 2:48:27Speaker 01

  Did he?

• 2:48:27Danny Jones?

  But it's like, you know, he's a Harvard astronomer astrophysicist, right? So like that kind of stuff coming out of the mouth of a guy who's like that legit.

• 2:48:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:48:37Danny Jones?

  You know, with that kind of credentials.

• 2:48:38Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:48:38Danny Jones?

  Like kind of breaks people's brains a little bit.

• 2:48:40Speaker 01

  I think the thing that people might forget is that like anyone that I know that is in science, like they they're out there trying to solve like they want to find extraterrestrial life. They want to find life outside of Earth. That's what they're do like that's their whole point. Their whole career is work.

• 2:49:00Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:49:00Speaker 01

  Is trying like that's the big question. That's the thing. That's the holy grail is the North Star they're moving for.

• 2:49:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:49:06Speaker 01

  And they're just constantly, you know, you're probing it. You're doing the scientific method of like, what if X, Y, and Z, and you're trying to disprove yourself, right? That's how the scientific method works. So you could say my my hypothesis is this is an alien spaceship. Now here, everyone, here's my observations. Now tell me why it's not an alien spaceship is by definition, you know, the scientific method.

• 2:49:25Danny Jones?

  Exactly.

• 2:49:26Speaker 01

  And so I love it when a scientist is open to saying, oh, this is cool, because this looks like it could be the signs of what we what we think could be an extraterrestrial vehicle or whatever. That's awesome. But the by it being in, you know, the the way that research goes is then. Has to go out in a public domain and people start looking into it and compare with their results from their telescopes that say, actually, under infrared, we realized, oh, this is actually just, you know, zinc or whatever. You know what I mean? Like, there's, and that's, I think that's the beautiful thing about it. And it's this open discourse and it's the critical thinking that I really think a lot of people, they don't, they don't even tend to ask their themselves the second question in general, like even in amongst social media now, you know, they'll see something

• 2:50:10Speaker 01

  go boom, that's the answer, you know, and I think that's really dangerous because I like to always go, what's the context? What, what, what are other people saying? What's the whole picture here? You know, almost every time you find it's something often smack in the middle of whatever the two sides are saying, you know, or multiple things. So

• 2:50:24Danny Jones?

  Yeah. I mean, even, you know, I mean, even like when it comes to how confusing it can be to like find stuff on social media, like out of context clips or whatever. And like sharing that around and going viral, people think like grasping onto it without, you know, people don't have the time to go research to the context of this stuff. But also there's like people that whose job is probably like to muddy the waters to like hide the reality of certain things, whether it be like top secret technology or fucking aliens walking around like

• 2:50:54Speaker 01

  Politics.

• 2:50:55Danny Jones?

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:50:56Speaker 01

  Political motivations.

• 2:50:57Danny Jones?

  Financial motivations.

• 2:50:59Speaker 01

  You know how, I mean, obviously like Tik Tok now is as of like yesterday is owned inside within the US. Like, I mean, I can't help but think that Tik Tok in general was already an arm of propaganda for China and that its only job is to literally take what people agree on and make them not agree on it. And if they can do that, you can spread misinformation, you can spread doubt amongst your fellow countrymen and your fellow humans and start to distrust everyone looking over your shoulder, you know, politicizing everything. You're going to get nothing done. We're going to have so much infighting that they don't even have to do anything.

• 2:51:33Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:51:34Speaker 01

  And boom, all of a sudden, like that's, that's the way you win. That's, that's modern day propaganda. That's modern day war is literally social media.

• 2:51:43Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 2:51:44Speaker 01

  And that it makes me so nervous. I'm, I'm happy that my video came out and is publicly out of my moon landing video, because even if I produce that today or within the next year, think about how much easier it is to just dismiss whatever I say, whatever I show in that video as AI.

• 2:52:01Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 2:52:01Speaker 01

  It's the truth is going to be buried. And garbage like

• 2:52:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:52:07Speaker 01

  That's and we're already seeing that with with everything. People already have doubt in everything they see now because they've all everyone in this room, everyone in this city, everyone in this country, everyone on the planet has probably already been fooled by at least one AI video. They've watched the video gone, no way that dog's driving that car. You know, I didn't know an F four Tomcat could do that.

• 2:52:29Danny Jones?

  Eighty percent of my Instagram feed is AI stuff. It's made to look real.

• 2:52:32Speaker 01

  So it's already over. We already lost. We already are sown disinformation to the point of us not even knowing, not even able to trust video anymore at all because it's so easy to make garbage now.

• 2:52:44Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 2:52:45Speaker 01

  So like, where do we find truth now? How do we know anything anymore? Now that this is out? It's like the worst Pandora's box thing ever.

• 2:52:52Danny Jones?

  It is.

• 2:52:53Speaker 01

  It's like, we're screwed. It's too easy to make absolute misinformation garbage now.

• 2:52:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah. Yeah, I think about that all the time. Like, where does it go? How do you reset? How do you how do you detox from it? How do you?

• 2:53:06Danny Jones?

  It's a, it's a, it's a, just a hornet's nest of information. And it's hard to know what to pay attention to, what not to pay attention to.

• 2:53:15Speaker 01

  Sorry, bump the mic. This, though, right here, this face to face with a fellow human.

• 2:53:19Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:53:20Speaker 01

  Needs to become more valuable. People need to understand you need to get out there. You need to talk to your friends that you haven't talked to in five years that you maybe saw some posts that didn't agree with what you thought. Get out there, make friends again, be neighborly, be humans to each other. Because I think that's what's happening is people are like literally sewing, they're getting, they're not even trusting their their friends anymore, you know, because they're being divided. And it's like, I have one of my best friends, actually, the one that we I talked about at the beginning of the show with the moon landing, we are opposite sides of the political spectrum. And about once of many times a year, we hang out all the time still. Many times a year that we get together, we'll end up with whiskey, and we just sit there on a campfire or something. And it just and we just sit there and compare our like feeds to each other. And we just

• 2:54:03Speaker 01

  talk, what's what's your guy saying about this? Or like, you know, what, what are you reading? And it's crazy. It's eye opening to sit there and have that open, honest thing and then just kind of be willing to be like, yeah, that's weird. And almost. Every time when we're sitting there like comparing our things of like, no, that's crazy. Cause I heard the exact opposite. Look at, you know, here's what I'm seeing. And you look and you're, oh, it's actually basically right in the middle. Like it's, I think it's something way more benign and we're all freaking out about this.

• 2:54:27Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:54:28Speaker 01

  You know, and like this face to face, being out there and just being humans. We were not meant to be sitting on our phones, absorbing information for 12 hours a day.

• 2:54:36Danny Jones?

  No.

• 2:54:36Speaker 01

  Scrolling like this, like it's.

• 2:54:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 2:54:38Speaker 01

  It's toxic.

• 2:54:39Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's mind, it's definitely mind numbing and it's like a weird form of mind control.

• 2:54:43Speaker 01

  Coming from guys that make very long form content.

• 2:54:46Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 2:54:46Speaker 01

  We produce hours of content.

• 2:54:48Danny Jones?

  Me and you would have to be out of our jobs.

• 2:54:50Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly, exactly. But yeah.

• 2:54:54Danny Jones?

  It's crazy.

• 2:54:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:54:55Danny Jones?

  It really is, man.

• 2:54:57Speaker 01

  So that's the, we're back to looking at the anti-tail there, huh?

• 2:55:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 2:55:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. Huh.

• 2:55:04Danny Jones?

  How do you, you can't really like, we're on this trajectory with the way technology is going and social media is going. That we're moving so fast in this direction. It's almost hard to be optimistic about like where it ends up.

• 2:55:20Speaker 01

  It is.

• 2:55:21Danny Jones?

  You know, even with podcasts, like you can say like, oh, like this is great for me and you. It's not going to be great as, as great for like everyone else because like. Eventually this thing will get like chopped up into bits and posted on X, used out of context and. And used to like skew people's opinion or the sentiment of what we're talking about into something it's not like. I'll give you an example, like oftentimes I'll sit here and do like a three hour podcast with somebody. And I'll walk away from it like with a very strong sense of like what I took away or what I like learned from that. Right. And then it's happened where that episode has gone out and I've like.

• 2:56:07Danny Jones?

  Had a bunch of my friends call me and give me their takes on it. And then I'll read a bunch of comments on their takes of it. And then that will skew my whole take, my whole opinion on the whole conversation in the first place.

• 2:56:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:56:17Danny Jones?

  You know what I mean? And this is like a phenomenon in the YouTube, a phenomenon in the YouTube comments where, or on X, wherever, on any social media platform. Where uh, somebody will, or a group of people will like post something about like what they thought about it. And then a bunch of people will pile on and it'll create this like pile on effect. And then a new person coming in, watching it, scrolling down to the comments and reading it.

• 2:56:42Danny Jones?

  Is not likely that they're gonna just regurgitate like it's not likely that they're gonna post their nuanced opinion that uh deviates from the crowd, right?

• 2:56:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:56:52Danny Jones?

  They're most likely gonna wanna just like fit in and you know, like uh something that's in line with the sentiment that's already in the comments.

• 2:57:00Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:57:01Danny Jones?

  You know what I mean?

• 2:57:01Speaker 01

  Yep, yep.

• 2:57:02Danny Jones?

  Which is, which makes bots really useful.

• 2:57:05Speaker 01

  Bots are very powerful and that's even assuming that people will see this podcast because if it's buried under 4,000 podcasts that came out that are also of similar lighting and style that are all AI generated.

• 2:57:16Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:17Speaker 01

  That people convincingly think is a real podcast and real humans talking about stuff. We're all screwed.

• 2:57:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:23Speaker 01

  We're completely screwed because but I don't know, that stuff really stresses me out because I just don't see, I don't see in which way that gets good.

• 2:57:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 2:57:32Speaker 01

  Like I genuinely can't imagine a world where I'm like, oh, this is a great thing. Except for that, maybe if you're an ad exec and you're trying to sell an ad to Coca-Cola or something, you can be like, hey, I don't have to fire a film crew now. I gotta make way more profit. I can just whip this thing up in Gemini in 10 seconds and here's your thing. Like that's, that people are just gonna profit off it and it's just gonna be a decline of, I don't know.

• 2:57:59Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's gonna be just used for, for more profit, more control.

• 2:58:05Speaker 01

  Selfish.

• 2:58:05Danny Jones?

  It's not a competitive, like the internet's not very, I mean, it's like a couple, handful of companies own the big social media platforms. I mean, Google and YouTube is like the craziest monopoly of all time.

• 2:58:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:58:15Danny Jones?

  That was actually like funded and incubated by CIA and DARPA of all places. So that's not promising.

• 2:58:22Speaker 01

  And then you got Meta.

• 2:58:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah, and it's all just politicized to like the nth degree.

• 2:58:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's frustrating because I don't think we were meant to live like that. I think our, our literally humanity's meant to be outside farming, gather, hunting, gathering and exploring. Like I think that's what's in our DNA and here we are, uh, doing anything but that, it seems like.

• 2:58:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, I think I might have changed my mind on this podcast. I think now I might be willing to go to Mars.

• 2:58:52Speaker 01

  And you'll go and people will think it's all AI.

• 2:58:54Danny Jones?

  Yes, exactly.

• 2:58:55Speaker 01

  I mean, even with Artemis, like Artemis two happening again in 10 days or whatever. That's when the opening happens and there's going to be people that just that immediately dismiss it all fake. You know, and it's like, but there's 4K cameras on board and they'll see like, you know, in this room, we have, you know, a lot of equipment that goes through even like, you know, when an HDMI cable gets gets weak or, you know, you start to see like bitrate drops and things like that. And we're just going to be a lot of that in any of the live feed stuff where, you know, there's a downlink issue or a compression issue or a encoder issue or a decoder issue or whatever little blips and conspiracy theories would be like, see? It's like, well, my rebuttal to any of that kind of stuff, because they do that all the time on the ISS or even on the Apollo moon landing things. If NASA is in control of all this and was making a perfect

• 2:59:38Speaker 01

  video that they pre-made and then aired it. When they get rid of all the little fake blips and all the little oops, the guy tripped on a wire and stuff like that, like, like those blips would be gone because it'd be a perfect, you know, perfect thing. So I remember when SpaceX first was landing their booster, a lot of conspiracy theorists would be like, see, it always drops out right before the booster lands. And then boom, the video came back and the booster is there. It's like, if they were faking this, they would just broadcast a pre-faked video that was perfect. They wouldn't have to have a blackout cut. But the blackout cut is actually because the plasma coming out of the rocket interfered with the uplink. That was sending the video out back to the studio. So like

• 3:00:22Speaker 01

  literally because it dropped out was actually oddly proof that it's happening in real life, you know?

• 3:00:27Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, no, the, the, the conspiracies about like space being fake and flat earth and all that stuff is like,

• 3:00:36Danny Jones?

  I don't understand some of those, some, some, like a lot of those, it's hard to explain, like what's the, you know, what's the motivation? What's the purpose? Why are they doing this? Why, why are we going to all these links, spending all this money to prove you guys that the earth is round, right? It's some of, some of it's so stupid, but like, that's not to discredit the fact that there are real conspiracies.

• 3:00:53Speaker 01

  Of course.

• 3:00:54Danny Jones?

  Like there's tons of them. The US government is like, killed more people, lied to us our whole lives and like Pulled us out to profit from wars and and all kinds of horrific shit, right? And lied to us. And they're still probably lying about shit. And and that enables people to fill in the gaps.

• 3:01:12Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:01:12Danny Jones?

  Of like, if they're not telling us the truth, we have to come up and theorize what the, you know, what could be happening here. And that can be extrapolated. Some people aren't equipped to see the nuance and shit, right? So some people will see like, oh, my God, like Kennedy was fucking killed and the CIA knew about, you know, a lot of this shit. This definitely wasn't Lee Har- if you polled the United States citizens, like a vat, like it's more than 80% of them. I think we Googled it, uh, believe that Lee Harvey Oswald didn't act alone, right? Like there was a conspiracy going on there. I mean, um, Watergate, the Vietnam War. I mean, it's it's endless.

• 3:01:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:01:51Danny Jones?

  So like, it's, it is difficult to know like what's real and what's not.

• 3:01:57Speaker 01

  Yeah. And where does that line stop? Exactly.

• 3:01:58Danny Jones?

  You know, it's hard to know. It's hard to know the line. And that's why it's so valuable to talk to people that like literally have like boots on the ground like you who are going to these launches, talking to these people. You know, getting like nitty gritty into the science of it and figuring out what the fuck's going on.

• 3:02:12Speaker 01

  Well, with Apollo, one of my favorite things is like, because three of the missions didn't fly, we actually have the hardware in museums. When you go to Cape Canaveral, when you go to Kennedy Space Center, that Saturn V that's laid out there is real flight hardware. It obviously never flew, otherwise it'd be in the bottom of the ocean. And Jeff Bezos literally did an exhibition to go recover hardware from the bottom of the ocean from Apollo 11. And then he donated that to museums. Yeah.

• 3:02:35Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:02:35Speaker 01

  Yeah. So he, he, when this was like 10 years ago, 15 years ago or something, he literally spent, you know, hundreds of millions of dollars or whatever it is to do this huge exhibition. He was physically himself on the ship to go, and I thought I interviewed him probably almost two years ago now. And that's one of the first things we talked about is he's like, yeah, I thought it was going to be easy. Like put in the coordinates for the Apollo 11, you know, trajectory where the booster, the S1C, uh, where it landed, crashed into the ocean.

• 3:03:03Danny Jones?

  Uh huh.

• 3:03:03Speaker 01

  It's like, I thought it'd be no big deal. And then it turned out to be like this huge ordeal and there's just so much.

• 3:03:09Danny Jones?

  Click on that article.

• 3:03:10Speaker 01

  On the bottom of the ocean.

• 3:03:11Danny Jones?

  That's from Apollo 11?

• 3:03:12Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:03:14Danny Jones?

  No way.

• 3:03:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:03:16Danny Jones?

  Thrust chamber of one of the five first stage F1 rocket engines used to launch one of NASA's mighty Saturn V rockets on the historic Apollo moon mission is seen at the floor of the Atlantic Ocean in this Bezos expedition image. Whoa.

• 3:03:30Speaker 01

  Twenty thirteen.

• 3:03:31Danny Jones?

  Twenty twentieth of twenty thirteen.

• 3:03:32Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:03:33Danny Jones?

  Scroll down.

• 3:03:38Danny Jones?

  That's bananas, bro.

• 3:03:41Speaker 01

  Isn't that wild?

• 3:03:42Danny Jones?

  Where in the Atlantic? I'd be curious. How far offshore was that?

• 3:03:45Speaker 01

  Like three or four hundred miles or something. It's not that far. Actually, click on that.

• 3:03:50Danny Jones?

  That's insane. He was able to find that.

• 3:03:52Speaker 01

  I mean, they knew where these things crashed because.

• 3:03:54Danny Jones?

  So they had all the, oh, they knew the exact flight track. Okay.

• 3:03:57Speaker 01

  So they actually had the estimated impact within, you know, within a couple miles.

• 3:04:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:04:01Speaker 01

  You know, obviously, once ballistic trajectory, you know, when you're in space, you can track something perfectly to where it's going to go. But once it's in the atmosphere, you know, it can kind of whizz around a little bit and.

• 3:04:11Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:04:11Speaker 01

  Deviate a little bit from its ballistic trajectory, but they knew within reason and most of the missions all flew within a similar flight corridor. They had slightly different what's called azimuth. So they're actually aiming on a different inclination. A lot of that was obviously to line up to where they're trying to land on the moon, but also to avoid the deepest parts of the radiation belt as well. They would slightly change their trajectories. So they all landed within a certain region, but it turns out it was actually really hard to find. You know, the actual engines from Apollo eleven. That's one of the engines, one of the F1 engines. Yeah. Isn't that sick? I think that one.

• 3:04:46Danny Jones?

  That's insane.

• 3:04:47Speaker 01

  That one, I don't remember if they have it at Kennedy Space Center, one of them at Kennedy Space Center. They definitely have one of them with the Smithsonian now. And it's, it's unreal to see it up close and in person because you're just like, you just go, this sat on the ocean floor for fifty years. You know, forty five years.

• 3:05:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah, that is bonkers, dude.

• 3:05:05Speaker 01

  So it's, you know, but I love that you can go see hardware and if you, you know, know enough about. Kind of basic rocketry, you can do the calculations yourself. Yeah. Say, okay, I have, because a rocket is really just fuel with skin on it. That's really all it is. It's fuel and the more fuel you can take, the, the, the further you can go, right? But the rocket equation is nasty because obviously if you add more fuel, now you have to add more fuel to lift that fuel. Cause that's weighing down your rocket, right? So it's like, so it's just, it's exponentially gets worse the bigger you try to make it. So if you, uh, if you add more fuel, you have to either make your engines have more thrust or add more engines or whatever.

• 3:05:46Speaker 01

  Or strap on those, you know, solid rocket boosters, they're called, you know, just to literally lift the more fuel that you put in or whatever. Right? And so when you go and look at this and you look at the Saturn V, you go, okay, it's 10 meters wide. It's 33 feet wide. It's this tall. Here's how dense RP one is. Here's how dense liquid oxygen is. Here's how dense liquid hydrogen is. You can add it all up and I actually did that in my video. I just went, cause I just kind of got sick of people saying things like that. It's like, well, let's just look at the numbers like, and these are actually relatively poor performing numbers. Like by today's standards, the F1 is horribly inefficient. Yeah. It's really inefficient compared to Raptor, like Raptor will walk circles around the F1 engine.

• 3:06:26Speaker 01

  The F1 engine gets love and admiration because it's the biggest single fueled rocket engine or single, single chambered rocket engine ever built. It's massive. It's cool as hell. It's like a, it's, you know, it's like an old school muscle car, you know? It's like just awesome, you know? But by today's standards, we have way more efficient engines than the F1 engine. And, you know, we're, we're doing things, we did it the old way and now we're doing things, uh, that, that are sustainable. This was not sustainable. It had to be hand machined, notice like on the right side of that chamber, you can see those tiny like lines, those little tubes. Yep. In between the ribs, almost. You see those little tubes? Yes. Yep. Those were hand braised.

• 3:07:05Speaker 01

  That's actually fuel runs up and down the entire, uh, or most of the entire chamber and nozzle to keep it cool, to keep it from melting. So it's basically like a radiator, like if you took a radiator and, and just, you know, turned it upon itself. And that's literally all this is tubes and they had a hand bra- Those tubes nowadays, thanks to modern machining, they literally they'll mill it out and they'll mill these channels down and they use bi metallics and put like copper on one side. And some kind of, you know, alloy on the outside to keep it structurally sound and they'll put tiny channels, itty bitty channels. Down the entire length of the nozzle, even like on that Raptor engine, even though the nozzle is only about, I don't know, I'd say a millimeter or two thick. Fuel goes through it and turns around and goes back up.

• 3:07:50Speaker 01

  The entire.

• 3:07:51Danny Jones?

  Do they utilize anything like similar to that with the with the Raptors?

• 3:07:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So so Raptor is like, if you look at. Yeah. If you look at like that, so that's basically what's happening.

• 3:08:04Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:08:06Speaker 01

  And it's going down and coming back, but it's that's a little confusing because it makes it look like it goes down on the outside. It actually kind of runs parallel to each other. So down one side and back up the other. Like next, like parallel, not not back and or like inside and outside. But yeah, that's called regenerative cooling. And so almost all liquid rocket engines use this. It's how you keep the chamber from melting and you can run an engine forever, basically, as long as you have propellant to do so. Obviously, in space and on a rocket, you run out of it relatively quickly.

• 3:08:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:08:36Speaker 01

  Because they have a finite amount, but if you were plugged into a pipeline or something with infinite amount of propellant, you could run these things indefinitely. They're they're more than happy to just sit there and and run and run and run because they're self contained and. And self cooling, basically.

• 3:08:51Danny Jones?

  Wow.

• 3:08:52Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:08:53Danny Jones?

  That's fucking insane, dude.

• 3:08:54Speaker 01

  Yeah. So yeah, look up like Raptor engine regen cooling, regenerative cooling would be the the term for that. So it's, yeah, and that's that's how engines, but back in the day, they had a hand. Braze these tiny little tubes together. And it was just, you know, stuff like that, like so many things were hand machined, all the the holes on the injector plate had. Hundreds of holes to inject the fuel into the chamber and they had to be like machined by hand, basically, because they didn't have CNC machines.

• 3:09:18Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:09:19Speaker 01

  So when people say, you know, they destroyed the technology again, it's like, well, we would never do things that way again.

• 3:09:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:09:25Speaker 01

  That's inefficient and we're trying to do things now in a way in SpaceX builds basically a Raptor engine a day now. Maybe even more than that. Yeah. So and what's crazy to think about is they're building that many knowing they want to be reusing these things, right? So now imagine like the exponential growth we're about to see. If traditionally you built a rocket engine and let's say you built one every month and you your rocket, let's say needed five of these engines, you could fly at most once every five months, based on how long it took you to build an engine and then it'd be thrown away. So that's your launch cadence, once every five months, right? Now, let's say you're building one engine a day, your rocket needs 33 engines, so you can basically build a rocket a month, but you're not throwing that rocket away.

• 3:10:08Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:10:09Speaker 01

  Now think about what your flight cadence can be.

• 3:10:11Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:10:11Speaker 01

  If you're adding a rocket to your fleet every month and your fleet's just growing at that pace and each one of them is launching, SpaceX right now has one launch pad capable of flying the Starship vehicle, they're building, so they actually just tore down their original grounded pad for their original Tower One is done for now, they built Tower Two out of Starbase, it's going online here in the next month or two, they're rebuilding Tower One, so that'll be two launch pads, they're building another one here at Cape Canaveral, they're building two more on another pad at Cape Canaveral and they're likely building four more very soon, like it's, it's, they're going from, we kind of are trying to figure this thing out to as soon as this thing's flying and flying reliably, you're going to see, it's going to be so boring to see the world's largest, most powerful rocket flying, because

• 3:10:55Speaker 01

  it's just going to be flying all the time, because they're working on the infrastructure and the capability of having that at a flight cadence that we've never seen before.

• 3:11:02Danny Jones?

  And for the, um, the Artemis missions, for when they do finally decide to get people like boots on the moon, do they have like, um, like a plan for what their objectives are going to be?

• 3:11:16Speaker 01

  So the first Artemis III, I think they're going to spend a full week on the moon. So they're going from the longest Apollo mission was three days, uh, the first Artemis III is planning to be one week, um, and that's still a shakedown, that's still a basic like, you know, easy mission compared to what they're hoping to do, so.

• 3:11:33Danny Jones?

  And do they, do they know what, what they want to explore or what they want to do?

• 3:11:36Speaker 01

  They're going to be on the south pole this time, actually.

• 3:11:37Danny Jones?

  The south pole.

• 3:11:38Speaker 01

  The big reason for that, there's two big reasons, one, well, and they're kind of related, is because it's the south pole of the moon, there's parts of it that are constantly in shadow because of like hills and craters and stuff.

• 3:11:48Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:11:49Speaker 01

  Which means there's actually ice, water, ice trapped in some of those shadows. So there's, there's ice on the moon. Like we have evidence of that. We've seen it in satellite imagery. We're starting to see it in some samples and we're working on really studying that. And if you have water on the moon, you can, that's one of the easiest building blocks of being able to sustain presence on the moon is if you have water, you can A, drink it to live. You can be split it up into rocket fuel to be, you know, oxygen to breathe for yourself. Oxygen is the oxidizer for your rocket. You can have hydrogen. Um, so you can refill your vehicle on the moon.

• 3:12:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:12:23Speaker 01

  Uh, but the other cool thing is because it's on the south pole, uh, because some parts are always in constant shadow. If you're on the peak of a mountain or a, an area, you can have almost continuous sunlight.

• 3:12:32Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:12:32Speaker 01

  So for 28 days, unless it like happens to be occluded by another mountaintop or something, you can have like 80, 90% solar coverage down there. Or on the north pole too.

• 3:12:41Danny Jones?

  So they could put solar panels there.

• 3:12:43Speaker 01

  Yep. So we'll.

• 3:12:44Danny Jones?

  And a day is two weeks on the moon, right?

• 3:12:46Speaker 01

  Uh, a day is, is four weeks, actually.

• 3:12:48Danny Jones?

  Oh, four weeks on earth is one day on the moon?

• 3:12:50Speaker 01

  Yep. 28 days, basically.

• 3:12:52Danny Jones?

  Holy shit. I thought it was only two weeks.

• 3:12:54Speaker 01

  So two weeks of daylight, two late weeks of, of night.

• 3:12:56Danny Jones?

  Oh, okay.

• 3:12:57Speaker 01

  Yep. Yep. So on the south pole, you're almost always going to be, and they're going to land on places where they're almost in continual sunlight.

• 3:13:04Danny Jones?

  Hmm.

• 3:13:05Speaker 01

  Like 80 some percent.

• 3:13:07Danny Jones?

  Do you think if they got to the south pole of the moon and they saw some crazy shit, they would tell us?

• 3:13:12Speaker 01

  I would hope so. I, I, you know, I would think so because like.

• 3:13:16Danny Jones?

  You really?

• 3:13:17Speaker 01

  I do because how else are you going to get the public extremely interested in continuing your support? If you say, if you come out with a big press release and especially, uh, with Jared Isaacman at NASA now, like if he had the opportunity to get public interest back in NASA and say, we discovered literally alien life or something, you know, some big crazy thing. Like they would want to share that to, you know, increase the public support and increase their budget. Like, yeah, let's go all in. Unless it was like.

• 3:13:42Danny Jones?

  Well, they could increase their budget if it was top secret. They could say this is national security and we have to keep this out of the hands of the public or else it's going to destroy society.

• 3:13:49Speaker 01

  China could also take advantage of whatever we found too.

• 3:13:53Danny Jones?

  How can we weaponize this shit?

• 3:13:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, maybe they wouldn't in that case.

• 3:13:58Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:13:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:14:00Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I don't know. I'm I'm more keen to believe that they would probably keep it a secret.

• 3:14:06Speaker 01

  I think it depends.

• 3:14:06Danny Jones?

  Or have some big plan on how to

• 3:14:09Speaker 01

  How and when to release it.

• 3:14:09Danny Jones?

  Slowly drip it out, make it public. Same thing with the whole UFO, UAP stuff. Because I mean, you saw that that that that recent documentary, Age of Disclosure.

• 3:14:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:14:19Danny Jones?

  It's insane. How many like high level military people and like

• 3:14:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:14:23Danny Jones?

  Pilots and all these people are talking about this stuff being real and

• 3:14:26Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:14:27Danny Jones?

  Talking about it in Skiffs, non-human intelligence, all this stuff. Like, how do you, you can't ignore it at that point.

• 3:14:31Speaker 01

  Pretty overwhelming.

• 3:14:32Danny Jones?

  So whether it's some crazy big psy-op or it's, you know, or it's real. And it's like, slow, like, that, like, we're just having a conversation about it on a podcast. People are talking about this at dinner. Like, it's slowly becoming normalized.

• 3:14:44Speaker 01

  Right. And de-stigmatize as well.

• 3:14:46Danny Jones?

  And de-stigmatize to the point where like, maybe they could say, oh, we just slowly release this in documentaries over decades. And then finally, we can just tell them that it's real and they won't give a shit.

• 3:14:54Speaker 01

  Yeah, they won't, yeah.

• 3:14:55Danny Jones?

  They're gonna watch Fox News or Jeopardy or Wheel of Fortune or whatever it is.

• 3:14:59Speaker 01

  Yep. They'll go back to their regularly scheduled program.

• 3:15:01Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:15:02Speaker 01

  The, uh, yeah, I, see, I don't, my brain doesn't always go there. I appreciate when someone's brain does go there. Right away. Like, what if they discover something crazy?

• 3:15:09Danny Jones?

  I don't know how you could not be fascinated by the UFO stuff, being so deep in the

• 3:15:14Speaker 01

  Well, I am. And like, I just haven't seen, like, radar blips and things, like, some of the stuff is just sort of like, I've seen instrumental, you know, issues. I've seen our own video footage where people are going, look at that UFO. And you're like, well, I know what that is, you know, and I don't know. There's, I haven't seen a lot that's been like

• 3:15:33Danny Jones?

  Did you see the thing that got hit by the rocket? And then like, it was like a blob and it was flying, then like a Patriot missile hit it or something like that? And it like reformed and kept flying?

• 3:15:42Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:15:44Speaker 01

  Not that, that looks honestly like a weather balloon getting hit by a rocket.

• 3:15:46Danny Jones?

  What?

• 3:15:47Speaker 01

  Yeah. Are you serious?

• 3:15:50Danny Jones?

  It like reformed.

• 3:15:52Speaker 01

  But it looks like

• 3:15:53Danny Jones?

  It like retook its shape after it got like smashed into pieces.

• 3:15:57Speaker 01

  If you clipped like a weather balloon, and this is the funniest thing, because I'm saying weather balloon when like, that's the famous Roswell thing too, basically. It's like, you know, they're like, oh, it's just a weather balloon.

• 3:16:06Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:16:07Speaker 01

  But, okay, so.

• 3:16:11Danny Jones?

  So it's spinning, three pieces came off of it.

• 3:16:15Speaker 01

  So, so to me, if we're tracking it right now, so the reason everything, we have to think of relative velocities, right?

• 3:16:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:22Speaker 01

  So this, we're moving with it, like imagine you're on a boat and you're looking at a jet ski next to you and relative to us, it's stationary. That's why it's stationary in the camera, right?

• 3:16:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:16:31Speaker 01

  You have another velocity vector coming in. So you have this other thing coming in from high velocity. Now this thing, it's not going to lose its velocity immediately. It's still going to be moving in the same relative direction, you know, just like, just like a, you know, if you threw a football and you hit it with a, you shot it with a bullet, the football's still going to land basically in the same spot. It'll just have a bunch of hole in it, right?

• 3:16:54Danny Jones?

  I thought this thing like all like came back, that it stops after that?

• 3:16:59Speaker 01

  I think it probably just runs into the ground.

• 3:17:02Danny Jones?

  But the video stops. It just cuts to these guys. It doesn't show you anything more.

• 3:17:07Speaker 01

  So, you know, I, I think the reason that-

• 3:17:10Danny Jones?

  So what do you think this could have been?

• 3:17:12Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah. So I don't, this is where I like to say, I don't have the answers. I just don't know that I have the answers to tell me what it is.

• 3:17:19Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:17:20Speaker 01

  You know what I mean? Um, so, but it looks like the, the first part looks pretty much like a,

• 3:17:28Speaker 01

  a guided, because that turns, that makes a turn. So that's a guided vehicle.

• 3:17:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:17:32Speaker 01

  That comes into frame.

• 3:17:33Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm.

• 3:17:34Speaker 01

  And whatever this is breaks apart and loses its, most of its velocity and it's falling now. So that looks like it's-

• 3:17:42Danny Jones?

  It looks like it's falling. Yeah. It sucks that they cut it short right there.

• 3:17:45Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:17:45Danny Jones?

  I would like to see what, I would like to see what happens after that.

• 3:17:48Speaker 01

  Well, it looks like pieces just fell off of it and it got hit. I don't know. But I mean, and, and a hellfire, if it, the, the thing is if it hit something of low density too, it probably wouldn't actually explode. The hellfire wouldn't, it wouldn't have anything to actually hit the warhead, right?

• 3:18:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:18:03Speaker 01

  So it could just hit something if it's low density like a balloon. And it would just kind of keep flying, but it'd get all like, you know, it lost track of its thing and it's, that's kind of why it scutters off screen and now you have just giant pieces of mylar falling off, whatever, you know? I'm not saying that is the answer, but to me, Occam's razor kind of says, that seems more feasible to me than, hey, that's a video actually of a UFO.

• 3:18:25Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 3:18:25Speaker 01

  With aliens inside of it, driving a little thing and it re-conglomerates and then shoots back off into space.

• 3:18:30Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:18:31Speaker 01

  You know what I mean?

• 3:18:31Danny Jones?

  Yeah, totally. No, a lot, a lot of those videos, even like the go fast video or the FLIR video, those can be explained away and I've heard them reasonably explained away how, you know, that doesn't have to be a UFO, could be a bird flying over the ocean or whatever.

• 3:18:43Speaker 01

  And perspective of like, we are really, as humans, we're, we're great at pattern recognition of like, I've seen this or whatever, but as soon as you start doing optics and anything like infrared and things like that, and then perspective with like motion, it's really hard to tell our relative motion versus, you know, if you're in a, a jet going 1,200 mile an hour.

• 3:19:02Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:19:02Speaker 01

  Versus your subject versus, you know, the parallax and all that stuff, we're actually really bad at that because I don't think we were evolved to, you know, we were evolved over however thousands or millions of years or whatever, thousands of years.

• 3:19:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:19:14Speaker 01

  To, to recognize certain patterns in nature and, you know, when we're tracking prey or whatever.

• 3:19:18Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 3:19:18Speaker 01

  But we weren't evolved to have a 600 millimeter lens out of our eyeball to going 1,200 mile an hour, you know, like.

• 3:19:24Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:19:25Speaker 01

  That's just not even in our brain. So I just don't think we're the most reliable source for, for seeing something like that and going, I know exactly what that is, you know?

• 3:19:33Danny Jones?

  Totally. I just think personally, uh, there's too many high level military folks, fighter pilots, nuclear base commanders, uh, you know, top level people in the military and whistleblowers and stuff like this who have come out and explained being exposed to these like special access programs.

• 3:19:51Speaker 01

  Saying point blank that they, yeah, exactly. They're in like a program and there's a whole wing of the Pentagon and stuff like that to me is actually, you know, a lot, obviously all of it is still hearsay from certain people, but these people do seem to have. The right credentials and things like that. That's the stuff that I'm like, dang, that's interesting.

• 3:20:09Danny Jones?

  Yeah, it's like, and if it's all a lie, why are they all lying?

• 3:20:12Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 3:20:13Danny Jones?

  Right? Like, why are all these people coming out and saying this, there's these reverse engineered things they found in archaeological digs or whatever. And like, there's all these, I mean, you know, anyone can go and do the research on Thomas Townes and Brown and all these anti-gravity folks and find out, like, read about what they were doing. It's just not like mainstream stuff. But you can like, look into what they were doing and who they were connected to, like, all this, like, deep military intelligence stuff and how, like, it was real, something that they were really looking into before, like, you know, science got turned in another direction. And, you know, now all of a sudden, there's like trillions of dollars missing and like reports of all these companies that, private companies that are doing all this

• 3:20:58Danny Jones?

  stuff, these whistleblowers are coming out and saying this. And, you know, I don't know, it just seems like there's something like, really big that's being hidden for whatever reason, for national security, or...

• 3:21:11Speaker 01

  If it's, it would totally make sense that if it isn't for national security so that

• 3:21:15Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:15Speaker 01

  the enemies don't have that and it'll obliterate us all

• 3:21:18Danny Jones?

  Totally.

• 3:21:18Speaker 01

  in two seconds. I just wish that it could come out publicly and be used for space travel. Because like,

• 3:21:23Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:23Speaker 01

  how awesome would that be if we could literally just do like interplan, you know, interplanetary travel, in the blink of an eye, and just boop, like, yes.

• 3:21:30Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:21:31Speaker 01

  So I hope, I hope, that's why, like, I want this stuff to exist. And I hope that it does exist. And I hope that someone is reverse engineering and trying to figure it out, because it would unlock even more, assuming, again, Pandora's box situation doesn't destroy us first.

• 3:21:44Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:21:45Speaker 01

  So maybe that's the delicate balance. It's like, if they do have something like that, and they do know how to do it, how do you prevent it from doing what AI is doing to us already?

• 3:21:52Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right, right. Yeah. And what the fuck do the astronauts know that we don't? Are they hiding anything?

• 3:21:58Speaker 01

  So, I don't think astronauts, because, really, like, your perspective of what you're seeing is still miniscule.

• 3:22:05Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:05Speaker 01

  You know, our eyes can only see so far, right? You're traveling at 17,500 mile an hour if you're in low Earth orbit.

• 3:22:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:11Speaker 01

  If you're going to the moon, you get up to 25,000 mile an hour, and then you're slowing down the whole way to the moon. Like, you're only seeing X amount and things that are moving relatively in your same vector, right?

• 3:22:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:22:21Speaker 01

  So in space now, on the ISS, you can see tons of star links. Because Starlink, there's 10,000 of them.

• 3:22:27Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:22:28Speaker 01

  But you only see them in the right conditions. Because they kind of have to be glinting off the sun. They're moving and, you know, like, you have to be kind of in the right position. You have to be at the right distance. Like, there's so many factors into when you can see a Starlink. But when you kind of know what you're looking for and you're in the right conditions, you'll see a ton of them. Like, there's videos of just like, the whole sky, you know, in space, even in orbit. And there, it looks crazy. But, you know, I don't think like you go, people always, I think they picture you go into space and then all of a sudden the UFO pops up. It's like, okay, well, that UFO has to be going also 17,500 miles an hour on your same inclination, in your same exact direction. Is that impossible? Of course, I don't think that's impossible, but does it happen to every one of them? All 600 humans who have been to space are keeping some big giant secret?

• 3:23:12Danny Jones?

  There was one astronaut who talked about seeing a UFO, though, right? One of, was it Apollo 11? Was it, was it Neil Armstrong?

• 3:23:19Speaker 01

  No, and I'm trying to remember.

• 3:23:20Danny Jones?

  Because it was actually, we have the voice recording of it, I think, right?

• 3:23:23Speaker 01

  And he's basically like, I don't know what that is and

• 3:23:25Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:23:26Speaker 01

  I don't remember the whole.

• 3:23:26Danny Jones?

  Find out what that is, Steve. I think it was Neil Armstrong.

• 3:23:30Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 3:23:32Danny Jones?

  Uh, multiple astronauts have reported seeing UFOs or bogies during missions with the most notable being, oh, it was Buzz on Apollo 11, who later clarified it was likely, later clarified it was likely sunlight reflecting off the rocket panel.

• 3:23:47Speaker 01

  Well, so, so what's interesting, again, because of that relative velocity thing, a lot of things you're not used to seeing. So for instance, um, I think it was, uh, like Mercury, like the second Mercury or third Mercury mission. Oh, I think it was the third. I think it was John Young was freaked out because he was seeing fireflies out his window.

• 3:24:05Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 3:24:05Speaker 01

  He's going, what are all these fireflies? It was his pee.

• 3:24:10Danny Jones?

  What?

• 3:24:10Speaker 01

  Because they vented his urine and it just, you know, you get these little micro droplets and it turns into a little ice and it's just following you.

• 3:24:17Danny Jones?

  Outside of it?

• 3:24:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:24:18Danny Jones?

  Whoa.

• 3:24:19Speaker 01

  Outside and so it was reflecting off the sun and it

• 3:24:21Danny Jones?

  That's hilarious.

• 3:24:22Speaker 01

  Turns into like little ice chunks immediately and they're tiny and they're all over and they're, it's a swarm following him. Because it's, they're all in the same relative velocity. They're all just floating out there with him now. And he's freaking out going, where are all these fireflies?

• 3:24:36Danny Jones?

  Hmm, that's hilarious.

• 3:24:38Speaker 01

  Or ice breaks off, you know, there's a lot of cryogenic propellants on most rockets.

• 3:24:41Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:24:42Speaker 01

  Cryogenic propellants. And so the, the skin of the vehicle, while it's sitting in the atmosphere, will literally get covered in a sheet of ice.

• 3:24:48Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:24:49Speaker 01

  Because, you know, humidity and then it turns into ice and so it's stuck there on this, on the side of the rocket. As it's ascending, you'll see big chunks of ice falling off a lot of times.

• 3:24:56Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:24:57Speaker 01

  Normal. And also it's normal when it gets into space, that's still, some is still melting off and, and, you know, coming off, you might see just chunks of ice or you have vents like the liquid oxygen port. You have to vent it as oxygen will boil off and as it's going from liquid to, to gaseous, it expands a thousand times. If you don't expand it, your tank will rupture.

• 3:25:15Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:25:16Speaker 01

  They're venting it constantly. And as soon as it vents, some of it will re condense back into either liquid or solid right away.

• 3:25:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:25:22Speaker 01

  As exposed to the vacuum of space. And so you'll have these just chunks of ice just kind of appearing and like doing weird things.

• 3:25:28Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 3:25:28Speaker 01

  It's just things that we aren't used to again.

• 3:25:30Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 3:25:31Speaker 01

  So it's, it is fun because it's.

• 3:25:33Danny Jones?

  Type in Neil Armstrong, uh, UFO. It's the cra- another crazy thing is like how all of, all of their, um, their lives like went spiral downwards after those missions.

• 3:25:47Speaker 01

  So things like, you know, the, the Apollo astronauts all spiraled and stuff like that.

• 3:25:51Danny Jones?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. Became alcohol, alcoholics.

• 3:25:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:25:54Danny Jones?

  Divorced their wives.

• 3:25:55Speaker 01

  A lot of that is just pretty typical of anyone that reaches a very peak of your career or your fame and has to come down from that. I mean, these guys were the most famous humans in the world and unbeknownst to them, they didn't sign up to be the most famous humans in the world.

• 3:26:09Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:26:09Speaker 01

  They signed up to, to fly spacecraft. A lot of them ended up getting chosen as Apollo astronauts.

• 3:26:14Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:26:14Speaker 01

  Famously Neil Armstrong was not the most outgoing human. He was very, uh, not reclusive, but you know, he wasn't, he wasn't like a me, me, me, center of attention kind of guy. And all of a sudden.

• 3:26:24Danny Jones?

  See, Charlie said he was, he was like the life of the party before.

• 3:26:29Speaker 01

  Did he say that on your podcast or is that what Bart was saying on your podcast?

• 3:26:34Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah, I don't know. I don't remember, but I.

• 3:26:36Speaker 01

  I had just listened to it again recently and I think he was just like, he's saying he's a, a nice outgoing guy, but he wasn't like the life, he wasn't the center of attention.

• 3:26:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah. But I, I remember, I thought, I thought I heard. Charlie saying how he was more of like an outgoing dude like life of the party beforehand. And afterward, he sort of like was more of a recluse, right?

• 3:26:58Speaker 01

  And that might be, I mean, can you imagine that you yourself went on this insane journey? Like imagine even if you went on, if you were an Arctic explorer or the or Mount Everest, you know, and then you had to just go back into regular life like, or, you know, any of these like, any of these people that have experienced something crazy in life all day like that, then have to just go back to their regular lives.

• 3:27:18Danny Jones?

  But also, imagine you're the first guy to walk on the moon, right? It's basically a big publicity stunt. It was like, if it like, it was real, right? But it was a stunt to prove you were number one.

• 3:27:27Speaker 01

  Right, right.

• 3:27:28Danny Jones?

  You're that guy. You're like the Michael Jordan of the of the world.

• 3:27:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:27:32Danny Jones?

  So the US government would almost like require you to do more public talks instead of just two.

• 3:27:41Speaker 01

  That's false. He did way more than two. He did way, he's still, oh, yeah. He was out, people think he just like hit or something. No, he was all over the place still.

• 3:27:49Danny Jones?

  How many, like, how many public interviews did he do about it?

• 3:27:53Speaker 01

  Hundreds.

• 3:27:54Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:27:55Speaker 01

  I don't know, not two. Like Bart, this is the kind of stuff that Bart will just say with full, absolute confidence.

• 3:28:01Danny Jones?

  Because I could only find that that 20th anniversary he did at the car 25th anniversary speech that he did, as well as, as well as like the post-flight press conference.

• 3:28:13Speaker 01

  Oh, there's way more than that. I mean, he's even, I've watched many documentaries where he's still on it, like doing documentary stuff like that.

• 3:28:19Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 3:28:20Speaker 01

  I mean, he, he wasn't going out and like milking it. Like, I think Buzz kind of made that his career when he was done. He went out and public spoke and he became a millionaire because of his public presence and his, you know, he.

• 3:28:32Danny Jones?

  Was famously reclusive and granted very few public one-on-one interviews after his 69 moon mission, uh, cause he wanted to avoid the spotlight.

• 3:28:44Danny Jones?

  Da, da, da, da, da. Then here's a, I mean. Known rare significant public interviews included 60 Minutes 2005, CPA Australia 2012, Cincinnati Inquirer 2003 and nine, uh, and 50 hours of interviews to a biographer.

• 3:29:01Speaker 01

  I mean, he's also on like, he did a speech at a college. He did a speech. I mean, there's all sorts of little things that weren't like big public publicity things, you know? And what's the one, when we left Earth, I think, an HBO documentary or a Discovery documentary? I mean, there's way more than that. There's definitely more than two. We can say that. Maybe not hundreds, but I mean, it's not like the guy just disappeared and hid.

• 3:29:22Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:29:23Speaker 01

  And, and you know, when Buzz says things like, look at them at the press conference. I actually had this originally in my video.

• 3:29:28Danny Jones?

  It is weird, the press conference.

• 3:29:29Speaker 01

  No, it's not.

• 3:29:30Danny Jones?

  You don't think?

• 3:29:30Speaker 01

  Any of the press conferences.

• 3:29:31Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:29:32Speaker 01

  Pre-flight press conference, watch the post-flight press conference, watch the one, two months later, watch the one. That's what I actually did originally is I lined four, four of them up with those three astronauts.

• 3:29:41Danny Jones?

  On your video?

• 3:29:42Speaker 01

  I was, I did, because I didn't want to just sit there and just dispute.

• 3:29:45Danny Jones?

  Sure.

• 3:29:45Speaker 01

  Things. I wanted it to be.

• 3:29:46Danny Jones?

  Show it.

• 3:29:46Speaker 01

  Here's, yeah, here's how we know with the hardware. Here's all the things. But I originally had it where I just lined up a bunch of flight conferences with them before and after. And I said, tell me which ones.

• 3:29:57Danny Jones?

  Which part of the video is that at? So we can see it.

• 3:29:59Speaker 01

  Oh, I didn't put it in.

• 3:30:00Danny Jones?

  Oh, you didn't put it in the video?

• 3:30:01Speaker 01

  I had edited, I was trying to trim it down because it's two hours and 20 minutes.

• 3:30:03Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 3:30:04Speaker 01

  But I, I had that lined up where I'm like, I wanted it to be like, do you tell me which one is the pre-flight plus?

• 3:30:10Danny Jones?

  Pull up the pre-flight.

• 3:30:11Speaker 01

  I mean, the, the post-flight press conference.

• 3:30:13Danny Jones?

  Pull up the Apollo 11 pre-flight press conference. See if you can find a video of that.

• 3:30:19Speaker 01

  Some of them are two hours long.

• 3:30:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:30:21Speaker 01

  So when you find a two hour long video of people sitting in front of, you know, with bright lights, sitting there trying to explain a mission that was, by the way, the post-flight press conference was two weeks later.

• 3:30:31Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:30:32Speaker 01

  So keep in mind, this isn't like they landed, they're hugging their families and they're getting pushed into a press conference. Like, guys, you're home safe.

• 3:30:37Danny Jones?

  Yeah, they had to spend time with quarantine, quarantine and all that.

• 3:30:41Speaker 01

  I think 11 days, 10 or 11 days in quarantine.

• 3:30:43Danny Jones?

  Mm-hmm. Okay, here's the pre-flight, part one. Play part one.

• 3:30:48Danny Jones?

  Just give us a couple, give us a couple of seconds of it.

• 3:30:50Speaker 01

  That's.

• 3:30:50Danny Jones?

  Give us some audio.

• 3:30:51Speaker 01

  That's post-flight.

• 3:30:51Danny Jones?

  This is post. Down. There you go, pre-flight. Give us some audio.

• 3:30:57Speaker 01

  Some of these are like two hours long.

• 3:30:59Danny Jones?

  Scoot forward a little bit.

• 3:31:00Speaker 01

  I've been to press conferences these days too, you know?

• 3:31:04Speaker 01

  And they just look like people.

• 3:31:05Danny Jones?

  See.

• 3:31:08Speaker 01

  Trying to hear the crappy audio of the reporter.

• 3:31:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:31:13Speaker 07

  I wondered if each of the three could tell us very briefly how your families have reacted to the fact that you're taking this historic mission.

• 3:31:20Speaker 01

  Knowing what they're guilty of. These three men are about to lie through their teeth to the entire American public and the world. Dun dun dun. You know, like. It literally, and I even did that too. I put music, different music behind it.

• 3:31:34Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:31:35Speaker 01

  And.

• 3:31:36Danny Jones?

  Let me see what you said. Give me, give me some money.

• 3:31:38Speaker 07

  Five years now to uh become accustomed to uh this eventuality. And over six months to uh to face it quite closely.

• 3:31:50Danny Jones?

  Okay, so these guys weren't hired for their charisma, clearly. Go now, go to the post flag real quick.

• 3:31:55Speaker 01

  They're test pilots. They're.

• 3:31:58Danny Jones?

  Not that one. Um, maybe that one.

• 3:32:00Speaker 01

  That one does count.

• 3:32:01Danny Jones?

  Does it? Okay.

• 3:32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's.

• 3:32:02Danny Jones?

  There you go. There you go. Do that one.

• 3:32:04Speaker 08

  The subsequent phases.

• 3:32:08Speaker 08

  I'll.

• 3:32:11Speaker 08

  We'd like to skip directly to uh the trans lunar coast phase and

• 3:32:19Speaker 08

  uh

• 3:32:21Speaker 08

  undocking, or the transposition and docking sequence.

• 3:32:29Speaker 01

  I don't think the compression that makes it sound like an alien spacecraft helps anything.

• 3:32:36Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:32:36Speaker 01

  But it's.

• 3:32:37Danny Jones?

  So, so definitely demeanor is not that much of different.

• 3:32:42Speaker 01

  This is probably their least exciting thing they could put. These are test pilots and you're saying, hey, now that you walked on the moon, now that you're home safe to your families, now that you're out of quarantine.

• 3:32:51Danny Jones?

  What's that spike right there?

• 3:32:52Speaker 01

  We're gonna shove you into this room for hours in front of a bunch of press people asking you dumb questions.

• 3:32:58Danny Jones?

  Click that real quick. Give me this.

• 3:33:00Speaker 01

  Questions that you've probably heard a thousand times.

• 3:33:04Speaker 08

  Could you Oh yeah. The hardest or softest spots that you could detect? And secondly, when you looked up at the sky, could you actually see the stars and the solar corona in spite of the glare?

• 3:33:14Speaker 07

  In, in rather flat regions, uh, the, the, uh, footprint would penetrate perhaps a half an inch or sometimes only a quarter of an inch and gave a very firm response. In other regions, near the edges of these craters, uh, we could find that the foot would, would sink down maybe two, three, possibly four inches. And in, in the slope, of course, the, uh, various edges of the footprint would, might go on up to six or seven inches and, uh, compacting this material would, would tend to, uh, produce a slight sideways motion as it was compacted on the material underneath it. So, uh, we feel that, uh, you, you cannot always tell just by looking at the terrain

• 3:33:54Speaker 07

  what the exact resistance will be as your foot sinks into a, a point of firm contact. So one must be quite cautious in, in moving around in this rough terrain.

• 3:34:04Speaker 08

  We were never able to see stars from the lunar surface or on the daylight side of the moon by eye without looking through the optics. Uh, I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the solar corona, what, what stars we could see.

• 3:34:21Speaker 07

  I don't remember seeing any.

• 3:34:24Speaker 03

  Neil, you were, uh, a little bit concerned yourself.

• 3:34:27Danny Jones?

  So, and I guess one of the things people say is that Michael Collins wrote later in his book in the nineties about how beautiful the stars were.

• 3:34:33Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:34:34Danny Jones?

  Which contradicts that.

• 3:34:35Speaker 01

  He just said though, they're imaging the solar, solar corona, they had an instrument that they were blocking the sun.

• 3:34:39Danny Jones?

  They had an instrument to see the stars.

• 3:34:40Speaker 01

  And no, they're, they're studying, you know, the corona, like when we have a, an eclipse here.

• 3:34:43Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:34:44Speaker 01

  Uh, the moon perfectly blocks out the brightest parts of the sun. You get to see the very faint corona. They had an instrument where they're trying to image the corona as well. And that's what he's talking about. He said, yeah, during the corona, I don't remember if we could see any stars. And Collins agreed, I don't remember seeing any stars. Like in that context of talking about imaging the corona.

• 3:35:01Danny Jones?

  Right. Yeah, but in his book in the nineties, he, he talked about how beautiful the stars were.

• 3:35:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but he didn't say he didn't see any stars in the mission. They're saying, did you see, he's talking, like if you go back, he's

• 3:35:11Danny Jones?

  He's talking about when they're in daylight or something?

• 3:35:12Speaker 01

  He's talking about when they were imaging the solar corona.

• 3:35:15Danny Jones?

  Ah.

• 3:35:16Speaker 01

  Cause that's the time they blocked the sun from their, their vantage point.

• 3:35:19Danny Jones?

  Ah.

• 3:35:19Speaker 01

  So he's literally saying, I don't remember, you know, seeing any stars. It, in, at least to me, it sounds like he says, I don't remember seeing any stars at that point. And the, really, does any of that, does that context necessarily matter? Cause we know. Like, there's so many things you can cherry pick and be like,

• 3:35:35Danny Jones?

  Yeah, I mean, it's weird, but.

• 3:35:37Speaker 01

  Well, listen to it again, though. Like, go back, I don't know, 20 seconds.

• 3:35:41Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:35:42Speaker 01

  So you can hear Neil explaining the solar corona.

• 3:35:44Speaker 08

  I, without looking through the optics, I don't recall during the period of time that we were photographing the solar corona, what, what stars we could see. I don't remember seeing any.

• 3:35:57Danny Jones?

  So he said during the time of photographing the solar corona.

• 3:36:00Speaker 01

  Because that was the question was like, did you see stars during the solar, like while you're photographing the solar corona? Like, that's what the press question was.

• 3:36:07Danny Jones?

  Right, okay.

• 3:36:08Speaker 01

  And it's in context of that particular timeframe of trying to do.

• 3:36:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:36:12Speaker 01

  Because that's, that is the time where you block out the, the sun and you'd think, you know, that the stars would probably pop out a decent amount during that, during that time when you're blocking the bright.

• 3:36:20Danny Jones?

  Sure, yeah, I can see how that could be super confusing for people.

• 3:36:23Speaker 01

  It's because it's a weird thing, too. You know, we're not used to being like, hey, what solar corona instrument were you using? And how much did it block out?

• 3:36:30Danny Jones?

  And to your point, though, about the pre-flight and post-flight, uh, press conference, like their overall demeanor seems very similar. Like, they're, they're, do they look bored out of their fucking minds? You know?

• 3:36:41Speaker 01

  Yeah. I mean, it's just so easy to manipulate people based on. Yeah, exactly. I, I'll find, I think even on my laptop and my original timeline, I think just off to the right, I'll, I'll pull it up later and see if I can find the edit where I had the, that part, because you just can't.

• 3:36:57Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:36:57Speaker 01

  It's just psychology.

• 3:36:59Danny Jones?

  And we know for a fact, at the same exact time in history, the US government was doing fucking mind control with LSD on people to create Manchurian Canons. That's real.

• 3:37:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:37:07Danny Jones?

  That's true.

• 3:37:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:37:08Danny Jones?

  So like, you can't call people crazy for trying to, you know?

• 3:37:11Speaker 01

  That's why I don't, you know?

• 3:37:12Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:37:12Speaker 01

  My, my documentary or my long video, the, the first thing I say is like, there's actually some great questions.

• 3:37:18Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:37:18Speaker 01

  I understand. These are good things to talk about.

• 3:37:21Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:37:21Speaker 01

  Lots of times, though, unfortunately, the answers might be more benign than people expect.

• 3:37:26Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:37:26Speaker 01

  You know?

• 3:37:27Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:37:28Speaker 01

  But lots of times, if you know the context, but my favorite, you know, is when, when Bart's talking about that whole, this is the weirdest thing. He calls it a smoking gun and it's the video where he's like, this is not meant for public release. I called NASA.

• 3:37:42Danny Jones?

  Of the fake thing in the window.

• 3:37:44Speaker 01

  The thing in the window.

• 3:37:45Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:37:46Speaker 01

  Dude, that whole, every, especially in the, the original, like the.

• 3:37:50Danny Jones?

  Pull that up so we can show it.

• 3:37:51Speaker 01

  The Joe Rogan interview, when he's explaining it, like almost every like fourth word he says is just like, wrong, wrong, wrong.

• 3:37:57Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:37:58Speaker 01

  Oh, he, he goes on to say things like, well, let's start, let's start there. Cause I have a whole, if you want to break this kind of stuff down.

• 3:38:04Danny Jones?

  Yeah, let's break this thing down for folks.

• 3:38:05Speaker 01

  The, uh, so he calls this a smoking gun. First off, the reason it says not for public, uh, distribution.

• 3:38:13Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:38:13Speaker 01

  Is because this was like literally a film meant for schools and stuff like that. It wasn't meant for like resale. It wasn't meant for, things were different in the sixties, seventies, when you're handing out film reels, right?

• 3:38:23Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:38:23Speaker 01

  So it started off with not for public distribution, but ironically, what Bart forgets is this was aired on TV. This was broadcast down.

• 3:38:30Danny Jones?

  This was?

• 3:38:31Speaker 01

  Yes. This is, this is from whatever it is, blah, blah, blah, broadcast. I, I bought a, a TV guide from 1969, from July, and it literally had this as a, as a time block out for Apollo 11.

• 3:38:47Danny Jones?

  Really?

• 3:38:47Speaker 01

  Like literally, they, this was, the reason we're seeing this is because it was broadcast down to Earth.

• 3:38:53Danny Jones?

  So he said somebody anonymously mailed this to him or something like this?

• 3:38:55Speaker 01

  Yeah. You can find this on NASA's website. Like, what is he talking about? Someone?

• 3:39:00Danny Jones?

  You can find this exact video?

• 3:39:02Speaker 01

  Yes. I found it on, I found it in the official Apollo timeline.

• 3:39:06Danny Jones?

  So for people who are uninitiated here, basically pause it real quick.

• 3:39:12Danny Jones?

  Well, I think I'm, I can do a good job of some of this up. I understand it pretty well. So basically, well, what Bart is claiming here is that for the uninitiated person looking at this, it looks like that's Earth way out into space, right? And you're like almost halfway to the moon because the Earth is so tiny. But what Bart is claiming is that they're pulling off a camera trick here to where, uh, what, what they're really doing is they're looking at a circular window. In the spacecraft and pulling the camera all the way to the back of the spacecraft, turning all the lights out and using a transparency that looks like the earth, right, to make it look like it's a really a tiny earth way out in space when in fact,

• 3:39:54Danny Jones?

  it's just a circular window and the lights inside are all turned off and it's a, it's a camera trick and that little light is a work light and they turn it on. And basically when you, when they turn it on, you can actually reveal that, okay, this was a camera trick and they were really only in earth orbit.

• 3:40:13Speaker 01

  You did a great job summarizing. Yeah.

• 3:40:15Danny Jones?

  Okay. Thank you.

• 3:40:16Speaker 01

  This is, that's, that's pretty much exactly what he says.

• 3:40:19Danny Jones?

  Yes.

• 3:40:19Speaker 01

  And like, none of that makes any sense. So, but he started off on your show saying, well, they're trying to fake the four second delay, right? And there's that guy that says, talk, right?

• 3:40:30Danny Jones?

  Yes, yes, yes.

• 3:40:31Speaker 01

  That's where he was kind of starting his whole premise of this whole thing is like, they were faking going halfway to the moon. One of the number one tells is that you hear a guy trying to fake the four second delay and helping them in the production to say, talk after four seconds. First off, 1.3 seconds is the time of delay between the earth and the moon and 1.3 seconds back. So you're 2.6 seconds round trip. If you're halfway to the moon, 1.3 seconds would be a round trip delay. So his whole premise of four seconds of waiting, why would they be doing a four second delay?

• 3:40:59Danny Jones?

  The delay would be 1.3 seconds halfway to the moon?

• 3:41:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. Round trip.

• 3:41:03Danny Jones?

  And where is Bart getting four seconds?

• 3:41:05Speaker 01

  No idea.

• 3:41:07Danny Jones?

  That's a great question.

• 3:41:08Speaker 01

  Just pulled it out of.

• 3:41:09Danny Jones?

  Is that Bart's voice saying talk?

• 3:41:12Speaker 01

  Well, that's, that noise is in the original NASA thing.

• 3:41:15Danny Jones?

  It is.

• 3:41:16Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yep. Yep. But there's, if that's so innocuous, if you listen, there's again, thousands of hours of recorded transmissions.

• 3:41:23Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 3:41:24Speaker 01

  If you listen to any given period, anytime they had to hit a talk back button, right? So you're picking up on any random thing someone else is saying, there's three humans, someone could have been like, I don't know, I don't want to talk in the background right when that guy hits, right when Neil's hitting the transponder to talk back to mission control.

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• 3:42:41Speaker 01

  Like, it could be as simple as that. It might not be the word "talk." You've seen those TikToks where someone says two things or the same thing over and over, and if you put a different word, your brain tells you that's what they're saying.

• 3:42:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:42:52Speaker 01

  It could be as simple as that could not even be the word "talk." It could be anything. It could be anything that's remotely close, but he told you, he said "talk," so therefore it's "talk." Like, none of that premise. Why would they have a producer? If that's what they're trying to do, if that's the smartest thing NASA thought of is we're gonna have a guy like call in and fake the delay because you're actually in low Earth orbit, we're gonna make sure that like that's their, that's their plan? Is there gonna be like, "talk," because it's been four seconds, you know, like?

• 3:43:20Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:43:20Speaker 01

  Like, what? No, why don't they bake in a fake delay? Like, this is NASA we're talking about. If they wanted to fake a delay, they would just put it on a magnetic tape and play it a second later. So there's an instant or a real-time delay so the astronauts can't make the mistake of responding within 2.6 seconds, round trip, you know?

• 3:43:37Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:43:38Speaker 01

  A guy saying "talk," that what you think is a guy saying "talk," is the silliest of all, like?

• 3:43:43Danny Jones?

  Okay, so play this. Let's see if you can explain this away. Play it.

• 3:43:49Danny Jones?

  So he's claiming that's a, give us some audio.

• 3:43:51Speaker 01

  That's a window.

• 3:43:55Speaker 10

  Right? And now you're gonna see them remove part of the crescent insert and the photograph in front of the window.

• 3:44:00Danny Jones?

  So there is something in front of the window.

• 3:44:02Speaker 10

  Buzz Aldrin doing that right there. Faking it. They also say this is the way 10 did it. Apollo 10 faked it the same way. And then you're gonna see the relocation of the earth in the window. And the window is actually, that's the window right there. So all the time.

• 3:44:20Danny Jones?

  Pause it there. How fucking bright that is is pretty nuts. If the earth is really that far away, is it gonna be blowing out the window like that? I don't know.

• 3:44:29Speaker 01

  So you're seeing a little bit of the remnant, the reason you can see what he claims is a work light or was saying is a work light is just another window.

• 3:44:36Danny Jones?

  Oh yeah. Rewind it about five seconds. Play that again.

• 3:44:39Speaker 01

  It's just the exposure's down. So you see the rim of the window.

• 3:44:41Danny Jones?

  Go back to where it's dark and then, and then hit play. Yep.

• 3:44:44Speaker 01

  That's just the, that's the other window, one of two windows. The astronauts moving in front of the window with the earth in the background. That's where you're seeing some stuff get occluded.

• 3:44:53Danny Jones?

  Oh, you're right. That is not a light. That is a window.

• 3:44:56Speaker 01

  That's just the window. That's the, that's not even the hatch window still is left.

• 3:44:59Danny Jones?

  But still they're exposing, they're still adjusting the exposure and they're still.

• 3:45:02Speaker 01

  And because if you listen to transmission at the beginning of the things like, hey, well, here's, before they start transmitting video for broadcast, they're talking on mission control to the astronauts. Here's what we want you to do. We want you to get a shot of the earth out the window. As you're moving, as you're talking about it, we're gonna ask you some questions for the air. Cause they're trying to also make clips that the news can cut up for the nightly news and something that too, right? So the news channels wanna say, they all wanna have audio.

• 3:45:24Danny Jones?

  We need B-roll.

• 3:45:25Speaker 01

  We need B-roll. Exactly. And the, and the news stations need to know what they're looking at too.

• 3:45:29Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:45:29Speaker 01

  So they're kinda coaching them a little bit like here, we want to make sure that you explain there's the terminator line there. We're seeing the earth. We're this far away. Narrating it to that degree. And then they say, and then we're gonna want you to back up and show the interior of the spacecraft as well. So originally you can kinda see, you see all this motion. The reason it looks like a spotlight is turned on or the work light is simply because he moved towards the back of the spacecraft. The exposure is still dark enough to expose the daylight on earth. Cause that's daylight settings. Now you're basically in a shadow, right? You're, you're in, you're completely removed from the sun, except for what's visible through sunlight. So we get to crank your ISO, open up your aperture, lower your shutter speed to be able

• 3:46:12Speaker 01

  to expose the inside of spacecraft. It's relatively dim. You know, it's like being inside of a movie theater, right? And so now everything that's out the windows is gonna look blown out like crazy.

• 3:46:22Danny Jones?

  Yeah, but that's my question. Is it gonna be blown out that much if the Earth is so far away? If they're halfway to the Earth and you're exposed for inside? Like, because when we showed this to Charlie, I'm like, okay, this is what your eyes are gonna be. So this exposure is roughly wouldn't be what your eyes are exposed to inside the spacecraft, right? This is basically right now.

• 3:46:41Speaker 01

  Looking out the window, yeah.

• 3:46:42Danny Jones?

  No, no, if they're, if they're just in the spacecraft right now, talking to each other.

• 3:46:46Speaker 01

  Right.

• 3:46:46Danny Jones?

  This is basically gonna be what they're saying. Let it play a little bit longer, Steve? Till the exposure gets fully exposed for the interior?

• 3:46:54Speaker 01

  Well, don't forget, they often had covers over the windows for this reason. So your eyes would be adjusted to.

• 3:47:00Danny Jones?

  Go back to where the interior is fully exposed.

• 3:47:05Danny Jones?

  Okay, so right there. So, so that's when they're in there and there's no covers on the windows and they're halfway. Those windows are gonna be blown out like that halfway to the moon?

• 3:47:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. I mean, even like, and actually go, if you go to my video, I hate doing the go to my video. I'm on the moon landing. I do have a whole thing on the segment. I'll show you the windows.

• 3:47:26Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:47:27Speaker 01

  Cause Bart claims, A, they're circular. There's no circular. There is a circular.

• 3:47:30Danny Jones?

  Well, we actually found a 3D model of the inside of that module.

• 3:47:33Speaker 01

  Yep, yep. And the hatch window.

• 3:47:35Danny Jones?

  That's the hatch window, the circular one.

• 3:47:37Speaker 01

  It's not.

• 3:47:37Danny Jones?

  Oh, it's not circular?

• 3:47:38Speaker 01

  Nope. It's, well, it is. The hatch window is circular, but it's up here to the left from this vantage point.

• 3:47:42Danny Jones?

  Oh.

• 3:47:43Speaker 01

  So the couches are right here. You have the panel this way. You're looking out the Z or X axis over there. Like the left shoulder of the, of the pilot would be, would be sitting in that couch for that window. The, the bright window is where they were looking out like during launch. That's the one they can see straight up.

• 3:48:01Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:48:02Speaker 01

  The hatch is basically up into the left and that's physically a round window, but with a square bezel around it. So it doesn't have any round edges.

• 3:48:09Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:48:09Speaker 01

  Like this whole thing.

• 3:48:11Danny Jones?

  Yeah, we were looking at the.

• 3:48:12Speaker 01

  Giant lies.

• 3:48:12Danny Jones?

  We were looking at the, the 3D render of the module on some website that I sent Steve and we, we didn't see any round windows.

• 3:48:21Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:48:22Danny Jones?

  But the hatch was missing.

• 3:48:25Speaker 01

  To go, uh, did, uh, I think to the right. Yeah, yeah, there you go. I think did NASA fake footage?

• 3:48:34Danny Jones?

  Okay, 107.

• 3:48:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, 107.

• 3:48:35Danny Jones?

  Middle, down, up, right there.

• 3:48:39Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 3:48:40Danny Jones?

  Okay, give us some audio.

• 3:48:44Speaker 01

  I'm gonna copyright strike you guys.

• 3:48:47Danny Jones?

  Thank you for not doing that on the Charlie Duke one.

• 3:48:50Speaker 01

  When I heard him explain how he thinks NASA faked footage of the Earth looking far away during the Apollo 11 mission, I was honestly puzzled. But I have had some people ask me to look into this particular thing. So we better just look into it.

• 3:49:04Danny Jones?

  We just teleported you here from the video.

• 3:49:06Speaker 01

  In a video called "A Funny Thing Happened on the Way to the Moon," Sabrell claims to have been accidentally given allegedly unreleased footage from NASA themselves. I mean, I guess that's interesting to say the least. In the footage, he believes it shows the Apollo 11 crew in low Earth orbit, but preparing and executing a shot where they're going to make it look like they're far away from Earth instead of just right there in Leo. He claims the astronauts obscured the Earth using a window of the Apollo spacecraft. He also believes there to be a studio light in the shot, which is confusing considering he believes the shot was done in low Earth orbit. Let's start off with his first claim that this footage

• 3:49:46Speaker 01

  was never released and was never meant to be released. Well, not only was it released, it aired almost immediately after being transmitted back down to Earth on television. The exact clips in question are Apollo 11 TV transmission 0335945 G E T and Apollo 11 Unscheduled TV 0311030 G E T. The reason some were considered unscheduled TV business is because they weren't scheduled for live broadcast at that exact time. However, the footage was being transmitted and recorded to all news stations so they could use it in segments later on in the news. To claim it didn't go public and was never released publicly is simply a bold-faced

• 3:50:28Speaker 01

  lie. In fact, the easiest way to find this exact clip is to go to a little website called nasa.gov/history and read the Apollo 11 Flight Journal, where they have every audio and TV transmission throughout the entire mission in order. But long story short, these were very clearly publicly available. They aired publicly. There was nothing secret nor unreleased about them.

• 3:50:51Danny Jones?

  So you can find that footage on their website?

• 3:50:53Speaker 01

  Of course. Where do you think he probably found the upload for it? Like, I'm sure he didn't digitize what they sent him. He probably just grabbed it from NASA's website.

• 3:51:01Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 3:51:03Speaker 01

  Literally. The claim is that the astronauts never left low Earth orbit, and the shots you see of Earth is just a small portion of the Earth.

• 3:51:10Danny Jones?

  Okay, pause that. Let me ask you this.

• 3:51:13Danny Jones?

  If that is a window on the top left and that has a window on the right, why are they two different colors? Steve, are you seeing what I'm seeing?

• 3:51:21Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah, I mean-

• 3:51:23Danny Jones?

  Don't try to explain this shit away, Steve. Just tell me what you really think.

• 3:51:27Speaker 02

  I think that this on the left is the color of the spaceship. Like, the light is hitting the metal here and that's bouncing back. Then this is the moon, not the moon, the, the, the earth, the, the, the blue ocean.

• 3:51:42Danny Jones?

  So you think it's bouncing off the exterior of the, of the module?

• 3:51:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, that's what you're seeing. Like, if the, if the sun is like over here, it's going to be hitting the, the-

• 3:51:52Speaker 01

  We know the direction of the sun because of how the earth is illuminated. Straight left, basically 90 degrees.

• 3:51:57Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:51:58Speaker 01

  So if this spacecraft is turned away from that at all, that window that you're looking through won't have any light illuminating the window sill itself. But that one is facing towards the sun, so light will be illuminating the actual window sill and any of the hardware there.

• 3:52:14Danny Jones?

  I see.

• 3:52:15Speaker 02

  I, I deal with this all the time. Like, if you're, this is what's great about sun, because sun illuminates everything mostly evenly. So all you have to do is expose for, if you expose for water, then everything else is going to be exposed the same. It's not like the water is going to be blown out or the spaceship is going to be blown out and the water's going to be too dark. I mean, the sun is hitting everything evenly.

• 3:52:34Danny Jones?

  Sure, I was just curious about the color difference.

• 3:52:36Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah, it's, it's the, well, this is a blue, blue ocean and this is the-

• 3:52:40Speaker 01

  There's a red frame too around-

• 3:52:42Danny Jones?

  Sure, okay. All right, that makes sense. I get it. And then, so the purpose of, was they, they were just trying to show, they were trying to get one shot. They wanted to, instead of having to move the camera, they wanted to show everybody the earth and the inside of the spacecraft.

• 3:52:55Speaker 01

  They only have one camera.

• 3:52:57Danny Jones?

  Right, but I'm saying, instead of doing a move.

• 3:52:59Speaker 01

  They did, they kind of did a move. You just can't really tell. We have no real frame of reference. No matter what you do, unless you zoom the, the lens, you moving the camera four and a half, six feet or whatever, at 200 or 110,000 miles,

• 3:53:12Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:53:12Speaker 01

  that's not going to shift the perspective size of the earth at all, right?

• 3:53:15Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:53:16Speaker 01

  So even if they were moving the camera-

• 3:53:18Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 3:53:18Speaker 01

  to and fro four or five feet, that won't look any different. The only thing that's going to move is the- Surrounding around it, right? Perspective.

• 3:53:24Danny Jones?

  Sure, okay.

• 3:53:25Speaker 01

  So that's why you start to see the now at first they're close enough to the window that you don't see the other exterior window. As they move back, it comes into frame, simply because its perspective is becoming into frame.

• 3:53:36Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:53:37Speaker 01

  And sometimes the edge of the window does start to kind of occlude. If you're using the window to try to make a fake thing, like hand holding a camera is the worst. The worst way to give away that there will be parallax, like all it's going to take, if that's low earth orbit. And you're doing this, any left, right, up and down movement at all is going to give away that that illusion immediately.

• 3:53:59Danny Jones?

  Oh, you're right.

• 3:54:00Speaker 01

  That'd be the dumbest way to fake the earth out the window.

• 3:54:03Danny Jones?

  Play it real quick.

• 3:54:06Speaker 01

  Being obscured by one of the Apollo command module windows to appear as though it's Now they're moving back. Far away. You can start to see that. First off, there weren't really any circular windows.

• 3:54:15Danny Jones?

  So they see the circular, the circular windows in the

• 3:54:17Speaker 01

  See the square edge, though?

• 3:54:19Danny Jones?

  Yep.

• 3:54:19Speaker 01

  Of the bezel.

• 3:54:20Danny Jones?

  Yep, yep, yep.

• 3:54:21Speaker 01

  So circular on the inside, square on the outside.

• 3:54:23Danny Jones?

  So that was the window they were looking out of right there?

• 3:54:24Speaker 01

  Nope, they're actually looking out the window. So see, they're looking at the opposite side of these two windows. Exactly what Steve's showing. So the one with the light that you see hitting the window frame is that. And the one that they're looking out is that, but it's on the opposite side. I think if you keep playing.

• 3:54:39Danny Jones?

  On the other side of the door. Okay, press play.

• 3:54:41Speaker 01

  Now, the hatch window was circular, but it had a squared off housing with straight edges. That would have been visible from any angle if you tried to use the edges

• 3:54:50Danny Jones?

  Pause it.

• 3:54:51Speaker 01

  To make a circle.

• 3:54:51Danny Jones?

  Oh, I see. It is a circle on the inside, but the outside's a square. I got it.

• 3:54:56Speaker 01

  And then if you hit play too, I even show like I matched it up to the model as well.

• 3:55:01Danny Jones?

  Okay.

• 3:55:01Speaker 01

  For some reason. The claim also says they moved to the back of the spacecraft to make the window look smaller and therefore the planet smaller. Now, this is true. They did move to the back of the spacecraft and you hear them talk about that and you see it in the footage. But if you were to move up, down, left, right at all, the parallax would actually give away this effect. And that's just a horrible way to try and make the earth look small. If we want to know what it looks like when you try to use the window to obscure the shot, we can actually see this exact thing happening in this shot from Unscheduled TV 0311030GET. But the reality is

• 3:55:37Danny Jones?

  Oh, wow. Which, which mission was that from?

• 3:55:39Speaker 01

  Same mission.

• 3:55:40Danny Jones?

  Same, go back? Look at that. Yeah, you can clearly see it disappears behind the window edge.

• 3:55:47Speaker 01

  And a straight edge, of course.

• 3:55:48Danny Jones?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:55:50Speaker 01

  That's a terrible way to fake.

• 3:55:51Danny Jones?

  But that could have been the moon.

• 3:55:54Speaker 01

  I mean, regardless, whatever they're obscuring, it looks very different than that.

• 3:55:59Danny Jones?

  Right, right, right.

• 3:56:00Speaker 01

  Keep going, because then you see the what Earth looks like in low Earth orbit.

• 3:56:03Danny Jones?

  Yes, right.

• 3:56:04Speaker 01

  So if you're obscuring just a small portion of that.

• 3:56:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 3:56:06Speaker 01

  It looks nothing like that.

• 3:56:07Danny Jones?

  Right, right.

• 3:56:08Speaker 01

  Nothing.

• 3:56:09Danny Jones?

  Yep, you would even see shit moving.

• 3:56:11Speaker 01

  And then I think in a second I line it up too with the with the Smithsonian's 3D scan of this spacecraft and line up the windows and it's it's this just it didn't make any sense to me at all like.

• 3:56:23Danny Jones?

  You're right.

• 3:56:24Speaker 01

  And especially I think right here is where we line it up and. So now that the back of the spacecraft on the opposite side, remember this has been an operator, there's three people in this tiny thing. So he can only really go from about here to like here, you know what I mean? He's not moving vast differences, a pretty small space. He's and there's cables and stuff in the way, there's a whole bunch of stuff. It's just one of those things where I'm like, his whole premise, the things that he's saying, aren't even the premises wrong. Like, why would they fake that of all things that they're faking? Why that? How? Why would they do it that terribly? Why would they go to low Earth orbit? Like, he believes the Saturn V took off, right? And he believes it got into low Earth orbit.

• 3:57:09Danny Jones?

  They went to space to fake it, right?

• 3:57:10Speaker 01

  They went to space to fake it and they had, I mean, by the, why would they build that big of a rocket? And then have that much fuel left over in the third stage that was physically capable of getting them to the moon? And then just be like, ah.

• 3:57:21Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:57:23Speaker 01

  Right. So he, the other things that he says that that just cracked me up. I remember one time he said something along, I think on Rogan's podcast, he said something like, no mission, no spacecraft, aerospace vehicle has ever flown on the first try. You know, has worked on the first try.

• 3:57:40Danny Jones?

  No NASA.

• 3:57:41Speaker 01

  He says spacecraft, he goes, the right flyers, 747s, nothing has ever flown on the first try.

• 3:57:47Danny Jones?

  Right.

• 3:57:47Speaker 01

  But suddenly the most complicated vehicle in the world flew perfectly on the first try.

• 3:57:53Speaker 01

  That entire sentence is backwards because he's forgetting Apollo one fire. We, three people died before it even left the ground. So it never, it didn't fly perfectly the first time. It unfortunately had the tragedy of three people dying before it even left the ground.

• 3:58:07Danny Jones?

  That was Gus Grissom.

• 3:58:08Speaker 01

  Yep. Grissom, White and Chaffey, I think. And um, yeah, they, so right there, that's wrong. Second, like every plane flies for the first time. Like, when's the last time we heard of a test flight of a plane crashing? Like, that's not true at all. He claims that the seven, in that same sentence, he keeps going on to say, the 747 had 168 tries before they got it off the ground.

• 3:58:32Speaker 01

  And he says 10 year newer technology. First off, it flew first time, I think in February 1969. So technically before the Apollo 11 before. So what are you talking about 10 years newer technology? It's the same exact era. It flew on the first try. Didn't 168 of them didn't crash? What are you talking about? Like, and he just says it so confidently, like, you know, the 747, which 10 years newer technology, you know, took 168 tries to get off the ground. No, none of that sentence is true. There's not one, 747 is about the only thing that he said correct in that sentence.

• 3:59:09Danny Jones?

  Oh my god.

• 3:59:10Speaker 01

  Like, I just don't get it. And there's things like that that are just like, I, I just don't know where these even begin to come from in his head. Where, where it just is like, he's just having fun. He's, I just, or he's, he's, he's made a million dollars off a documentary and is still milking the ability to sell books and all these things off of this thing.

• 3:59:31Speaker 01

  And the more fanatical his claims are, and the more just like, yeah, they can't even do it today. You know, that kind of stuff. Like, he's just able to make more money and continue to be in the spotlight.

• 3:59:42Danny Jones?

  Yeah, maybe. Um, and I think you're right about a lot of the other things too, like the shadows. I think you made a really good point about the shadows, right? Like, the closer you get to something, the more they converge and uh, The way you had a whole segment in that video that explains the shadows and that makes perfect sense. So I think he's wrong about that as well as like the angle of that rock or whatever. People want to know, go tell your video, what's the title of it?

• 4:00:03Speaker 01

  Uh, I think it's just, uh, the truth about the Apollo.

• 4:00:06Danny Jones?

  The truth about the Apollo on your, on your channel is the best. It is the best comprehensive breakdown of the whole thing that's exists. So, uh, anyone who's out listening to this, you want a condensed, uh, version of this podcast, go watch that.

• 4:00:17Speaker 01

  I don't know if it's gonna be that condensed.

• 4:00:20Danny Jones?

  It's pretty long on its own. We hit it four hours, bro.

• 4:00:22Speaker 01

  Really? This is, uh, this is getting, I was on Friedman on Lex's podcast. I think it was five hours.

• 4:00:28Danny Jones?

  Oh, really?

• 4:00:29Speaker 01

  Yeah. We should break that record. Let's keep going. Just kidding.

• 4:00:32Danny Jones?

  When was that?

• 4:00:34Speaker 01

  Uh, that was a couple of years ago. I think two or three years ago.

• 4:00:36Danny Jones?

  I didn't even see that one.

• 4:00:36Speaker 01

  Yeah. Yeah. It was, uh, the time like is fun because we were talking, I remember the big thing at the time was, uh, they hadn't, uh, caught, I don't even think they had launched, maybe they had launched a starship, but they hadn't caught one yet. And I was describing to Lex, like, they're gonna try and catch it. And he's like, no, they are not. You know, it was, it was insane. It was like, man, he just couldn't believe that they're gonna try doing this. And then like, fast forward to just a few months later and they already caught one. And like, I love that kind of stuff. When it goes from batshit crazy, this is never going to happen to like, oh yeah, that's actually just the way we're gonna do things now.

• 4:01:06Danny Jones?

  Yeah.

• 4:01:07Speaker 01

  I love that.

• 4:01:07Danny Jones?

  Well, dude, I really enjoyed this podcast, man. And, uh, it's perfect that they're getting, we're getting ready to launch that Artemis mission in two weeks. So, uh, we couldn't have timed this any better. Um, we got Patreon questions. We got, uh, our Patreons got some personal questions for you. We'll do, so we'll wrap up the podcast.

• 4:01:22Speaker 01

  Awesome.

• 4:01:23Danny Jones?

  And we'll go do that. But before, tell people about, uh, Everyday Astronaut on YouTube.

• 4:01:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 4:01:27Danny Jones?

  Where else can people find you?

• 4:01:28Speaker 01

  Wherever you're on the internet, you'll probably find me.

• 4:01:30Danny Jones?

  Everyday Astronaut and you'll find all your stuff.

• 4:01:32Speaker 01

  Yep. You'll find it. I've got a, I just released, I play music as well. So any music you've ever seen in my videos is my own music. Just released a new album. Uh, you can find anywhere. Uh, it's all just kind of backgroundy, like chill indie rock stuff. And yeah, Everyday Astronaut, find it there too. But yeah, if I'm on YouTube, I'm on all the things and you can join us live for Artemis 2. We'll be hosting.

• 4:01:52Danny Jones?

  Oh, you live stream it?

• 4:01:52Speaker 01

  Yep. We'll be live streaming 4K with the, the whole trailer and a whole team of, you know, six or seven people I think are coming out to, to track it and watch the mission. And yeah.

• 4:02:03Danny Jones?

  That's badass, dude. I think I'm gonna probably go check it out too.

• 4:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, you should. You're close enough. You should.

• 4:02:07Danny Jones?

  Yeah, man. Um, cool. Well, we'll link everything below. Thank you again, man. That was fascinating.

• 4:02:11Speaker 01

  My pleasure. Sincerely, thank you for having me out here. It's been, it's been a lot of fun. I love this stuff.

• 4:02:15Danny Jones?

  My pleasure. All right. Good night, folks. We're going to Patreon.

• 4:02:18Speaker 06

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