Jocko Underground: Don't Try To Be A SEAL | Feeling Unappreciated in my Marriage

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Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, sitting here with Echo Charles. We have some questions from the troopers, which we will answer at this time. First one, maybe a classic question with a little spin on it. Let's go.

• 0:13Speaker 01

  Okay, alright. Okay, my son's dream since he was eight years old is to be a Navy SEAL. He's now, he's a college freshman now, business management major, NROTC program. He's intelligent, hard worker, strong minded, patriot, and athletically superb. He was not excited to join college because all he thinks about is to be a SEAL. And colleges quote unquote is not his thing, but due to his eyesight and medical advice, was that vision correction surgery would not happen until he turns 21. My husband and I encouraged him to go to school until his vision is corrected. We believe that education is important, especially if he wishes to run for office one day. Recently, he has expressed that he wants to leave school, return home and work,

• 0:58Speaker 01

  and maybe attend college for a few classes until he's 21. He has no interest in being an officer because he wants to be the quote unquote first boots on the ground. If he becomes an officer, he would not be able to do that. My fear is that he could be, he could be just fascinated by the movies, books, books he reads and how cool it is to be a SEAL. I support him with all my heart, but I'm very scared he would lose an education opportunity. I continue to advise him without pushing too hard and finish, and to finish school so he'll have something to fall back on. But he believes that failure is not an option, and if he fails, it's his choice. I don't believe nor wish that he would fail, but his father and I have been through life and we believe in backup plans. How do I direct him in a positive way?

• 1:42Speaker 01

  And how to find peace with his decision if he decides to leave college? I appreciate your services. God bless.

• 1:49Jocko Willink?

  So I look at it like this, the easy, the easiest part of this question is the actual little question here, which is

• 1:56Jocko Willink?

  How do I um direct him in a positive way to find peace if he decided to leave college? Like if he leaves college, it's not that big of a deal. You go to college when you're 20, when you're 19, when you're 25, when you're 23, like you can go to college. College is not that big of a deal. You can go when you're 30, you can go through 33. So it's not that big of a deal. So if he, and by the way, if you've got your kids going to college and it costs money to go to college and he's not into it. He's not learning anything. He's not paying attention. He's not getting straight A's. He's not developing a plan. He's not networking with people. He's not doing internships to find a follow on job. You see what I'm saying? It's just a big freaking waste.

• 2:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:37Jocko Willink?

  So if he's like, hey, I don't want to go to college anymore, be like, cool. Let's keep that money. Let me have my money back that I'm paying for you to go to college and you go get a job. And you can pay for rent, right? I guess I think it's important. You want to pull out of college? Cool. Cause I'm supporting you because it's a long-term investment in your future, which I'm doing so that someday when I'm old, you can take care of me. There's a, there's the return on investment there, right? Of course you want your kid to do well. You want them to be more successful for you. That's great, but you're also paying so that when you get old, someone's going to be able to take care of you.

• 3:09Jocko Willink?

  So there's a little return on investment that you're looking for. And you're investing in them so they can make more money in the future. There's a bunch of reasons for that. So if he wants to pull out of college, I don't think it's that big of a deal. And by the way, I am a person that doesn't believe you need to go to college at all. Like you can be an electrician, a plumber, a welder. There's all kinds of jobs you can get. That you don't have to go to college to do. And by the way, there's white collar. You could be a, uh, go in the finance industry with very, with, without going to college. Certain financial jobs. So there's things that you could do to, to have a career, whatever. So if he's going to drop out of college, that's cool. Just make sure that he's an adult now and he understands that. And if he wants to move home, uh, cool.

• 3:49Jocko Willink?

  He can get a job and he can contribute to household expenses, i.e. you have to pay the mortgage so he can help with rent. You have to pay for food. He can help pay for food. You know, you could, that cell phone that's in your pocket. Yep. You can give me 80 bucks a month. You see what I'm saying? If he wants to do that, fine, but he has to understand what that means. College is a privilege. College is a gift. If you're not taking advantage of it, don't go there. And by the way, if my kid was going to college and not beat, not putting out and getting into it, I'd be like, oh yeah, you're cut off. We're not sending you in. It's a waste of freaking money. So I think that would be fine and it's not going to change the trajectory of his life. In fact, if he gets a job doing some entry level job somewhere, he's going to learn a lot. He's going to learn a lot about life and about value and about work effort.

• 4:35Jocko Willink?

  So I think that's the easy part. He wants to drop out of college for a while? Cool. Drop out of college. You want to come home and get a job? You want to start working as a laborer on a construction site? Go do it. It'd be awesome. It's going to be good for you. You want to come and you want to get a job at a restaurant, be in a busboy, you know, work your way up to being a waiter after a few years, you know what I'm saying? People don't realize, oh, no, it's hard work. So let's think about that. You want to come and you want to join the workforce at 19? Cool. Come and join it. You will go back to school. You may decide to go back to school in two years. Like, yep, I'm going to college. I'm getting a degree. This is what I'm interested. I don't want to have to do that type of work. Here's what I want to do. Good. You got a plan now. So I like that. You want to pull out of college? Cool. We're done. I think that's easy.

• 5:17Jocko Willink?

  And he's got plenty of time and he'd do a better job. Dude, I went to college when I was 28 years old. What a freaking, like, you know, the kids that get held back so they're like in school and high school? So they're, you know, older than the other kids. They could kick ass in wrestling or what? In wrestling?

• 5:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully or football. Yeah.

• 5:37Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, or football or whatever. So they're grown men. Dude, that's what, that's what it was like when I went to college.

• 5:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:43Jocko Willink?

  I was a fully formed adult male. With 10 years of labor under my belt of in the workforce, supporting myself and a family. You think I'm not ready to rock and roll in college? So it wasn't even, it wasn't even fair. Straight A's, dude. You could not stop me.

• 6:04Jocko Willink?

  If I went to college when I was 18, it'd be like, ah, how's that working out for you? I'm an idiot. So I think that is totally fine. I think the hard part about this question is whether or not you want to.

• 6:19Jocko Willink?

  Encourage him or discourage him from joining the Navy for an attempt at being a SEAL. Because the training is really hard and 80% of people don't make it. And 100% of the people don't think they're part of that 80%. 100% of the people think they're gonna make it. 100% of the parents think they're gonna make it. Maybe that's not true, maybe 90%.

• 6:45Jocko Willink?

  And so you think you're gonna make it, and by the way, of the 80%, the 80% that don't make it, 75% of those that don't make it of the 80% are studs. They're freaking studs. They're varsity athletes, multiple sports, they're collegiate athletes, they're professional athletes. They're Olympic athletes.

• 7:11Jocko Willink?

  They're Ivy League educated. And countless of those type of people, which are, as you put it, like intelligent, hardworking, strong-minded, patriotic, and athletically superb, means nothing. Those guys quit by the bushel.

• 7:27Jocko Willink?

  By the bushel, they quit.

• 7:30Jocko Willink?

  So no one thinks that it's gonna be them. No one thinks it's gonna be them, but it is them.

• 7:38Jocko Willink?

  Him stating that he doesn't want to be an officer because he wants to be first boots on the ground. It's an understandable idea, uh, but the chance that he would not be able to become an officer anyways. Because he's like, uh, not even focused on school. You know what I mean? You're not gonna be a person, like the kids that are getting picked up as officers, they're freaking, not only studs, but they've been focused since they were 14 years old on getting the grades and the SAT scores and the ACT scores and the recommendations and the community service and the athletic leadership. They're getting all those things chalked off. So you're thinking you're gonna compete with a kid that's been focused on this since he was 13 years old?

• 8:22Jocko Willink?

  Who has actual straight A's that went to the Naval Academy? Or that went to the ROTC program at, at their college and got a scholarship there? And, and are the, the brigade commander of their ROTC, you see what I'm saying?

• 8:40Jocko Willink?

  So you don't, this young man, and I'm sure he's a great young man. He doesn't have a chance for being an officer, so that's just off the table anyways.

• 8:50Jocko Willink?

  I shouldn't say he's totally off the table. He would have to like refocus his entire existence.

• 8:55Jocko Willink?

  Because he would have to be like, oh, I'm in college right now because I want to become an officer. That's why I'm getting straight A's. That's why I'm studying these courses. That's why I'm taking two languages, Farsi and Russian. You see what I'm saying?

• 9:08Jocko Willink?

  Um, the fact that he quote, run for office one day? That's a weird thing to talk about right now for a 19 year old kid. It's not a great sign, by the way. Because if you, if, if your goal is to run for office, it's not a great sign. Uh, it means you want to build your resume, which is, which is not a good sign. The desire to be a resume builder does not bode well for making it through SEAL training. Nor does it be bode well for being the type of leader that performs well in the SEAL teams. If you're a type of person that wants to like go into politics, not a good sign.

• 9:45Jocko Willink?

  Some of them end up in politics, I get it. But

• 9:50Jocko Willink?

  they do not go with the intent of going to politics. They kind of end up there.

• 9:58Jocko Willink?

  So let's just keep that in mind. Um, here's another thing, like, I'll just throw these out there. Like, how many pull-ups can he do? Can you do 25 to 30 dead hang pull-ups? Can he do, you know, what's his four mile runtime? Is it under 26 minutes right now? What's his 500 meter swim? Is it under nine minutes right now? Is he comfortable in the water? Did he play water polo? Like what, did he surf growing up? Does he have real comfort in the water?

• 10:24Jocko Willink?

  Um, what, has he had any injuries? Because he was, you know, an athlete. Has he had a ACL injury? Has he had a shoulder injury? Those shoulder injuries and back injuries and elbow injuries and knee injuries that you show up to BUDs with, they're going to get tested in a way that is not, it's, it's barely even an ethical freaking thing to have happen.

• 10:47Jocko Willink?

  Because they don't care. Because combat doesn't care.

• 10:53Jocko Willink?

  So there's another option. Oh, he doesn't. And he's got to wait. Okay, he's got to wait till he's 21. So there's an eye surgery. Echo Charles. They put lasers into your eyes.

• 11:02Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:03Jocko Willink?

  And they cut things. Your eye, believe it or not, is still developing until you turn 21.

• 11:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:09Jocko Willink?

  And so you can't get the surgery before you turn 21. Which is a bummer. And so you have to wait. Now, one thing that this kid, maybe this kid's 18. Was he a freshman? He could probably go to four years in the Army or the Marine Corps. Get a good like baseline as an infantryman.

• 11:26Jocko Willink?

  So that would give you a good base too for what it takes to make it through SEAL training. The SEAL route is hard. We need to keep that in mind.

• 11:39Jocko Willink?

  And the chances that this young individual, sounds like a great kid, intelligent, hardworking, like really focused, the chances are that he won't make it. So we have to keep that in mind.

• 11:52Jocko Willink?

  It's a hard route. And it it is something that I do not encourage people to do. I don't encourage people to do it.

• 12:07Jocko Willink?

  Because if I say, hey, Billy, the SEAL teams is the best. You should go for it.

• 12:13Jocko Willink?

  And then they don't make it and then they hate their lives. And I don't want to be responsible for ruining their life.

• 12:24Jocko Willink?

  So I do not encourage people to do it.

• 12:29Jocko Willink?

  And as much as we believe in, like I said, the kids that don't make it through are studs. Division one athletes, name the sport. Name the sport. Wrestling, football, swimming, running, they all quit. They've all quit. Hey, they've all made it too, but they've all quit. So it means nothing.

• 12:48Jocko Willink?

  All that being said, there is a certain drive in a small percentage of young men that for no logical reason. So what I realized, actually, I realized that when I was thinking about this question. There's no logical reason to try and go to, to try and go in the SEAL teams. It doesn't make sense. It doesn't make logical sense. If you were to be, uh, put into AI, the pros and cons of the various branches of, you know, should I go to special forces? Should I go Ranger? Should I go Air Force CCT? Should I go Marine Raider? What I, did I miss any? You, if you put that into chat GPT and said, okay, here's, here's who I am. Here's what I have. What is the best?

• 13:32Jocko Willink?

  What is the best route for me to take? AI would tell you any of the other branches. It would tell you any of the other branches. It would just look at the percentage of people get dropped. It would look at the amount of injuries, the amount of people that get disqualified, the amount of people that don't make it, and what happens when you don't make it? Cause what happens when you don't make it through SEAL training, you end up in the Navy. And the Navy is industrial jobs for the most part, which people that want to be SEALs don't want industrial jobs. They want commando jobs. They want infantrymen jobs. You don't get those in the regular Navy. So it doesn't make any logical sense

• 14:11Jocko Willink?

  to

• 14:13Jocko Willink?

  go that route. But guess what? The people that do that route for no logical reason, that there's just one job that they want. There's one job that they want, and that's it.

• 14:27Jocko Willink?

  Your son might be one of those people. And here's the thing. If he is one of those people, he's going to go for it.

• 14:37Jocko Willink?

  And he needs to make that decision. And in the unlikely, the highly unlikely event, cause you hear the 80% attrition rate, that just counts the people that show up to BUDS. Most people don't even make it to BUDS.

• 14:49Jocko Willink?

  So in the unlikely event that he makes it through the most arduous, selective, random, brutal and ridiculous training pipeline, it's the best job ever. It's the best job ever.

• 15:02Jocko Willink?

  He's got to make that decision and you can't actually help him in either way. Cause if you talk him out of it, he's going to regret it and he's going to resent you. And if you talk him into it and he doesn't make it, he's going to regret it. He's going to resent you. So he's a young man.

• 15:20Jocko Willink?

  And he needs to decide what he's going to do. And the best thing you can do is support his decision and wish him luck.

• 15:31Jocko Willink?

  That's my assessment here. Sounds like you raised a great kid.

• 15:35Speaker 01

  So you're saying in a nutshell, he either way, college, good deal, but not necessarily a rush to go to college.

• 15:43Jocko Willink?

  No rush to go to college. You know, if he wants to be in the workforce for a couple of years while he's waiting to get his eye surgery, cool. And I personally think it's a waste of money anyways, if he's not into it.

• 15:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:54Jocko Willink?

  If he doesn't have a plan.

• 15:55Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 15:56Jocko Willink?

  And he's not going to become an officer.

• 15:59Jocko Willink?

  Dude, save, make a bunch of money and save it. That way, when you join the Navy or whatever branch you, you have some money in the bank and like, maybe you can be saving for a house, you know, when you, when you get stationed somewhere.

• 16:09Speaker 01

  Yeah. And that would be the plan, this plan B scenario that they, cause you know how they, they were like, oh, we believe in plan Bs. You know, cause we've been through life and stuff like that, which makes sense.

• 16:19Jocko Willink?

  Yeah. Yeah, totally. It does make sense, you know, and you get people that are like, don't have a backup plan, you know? And I get that mentality.

• 16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, fully.

• 16:30Jocko Willink?

  But you better consider that. When, again, it's hard to convince someone that 80% of the people that don't make it, you're one of them.

• 16:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, fully.

• 16:41Jocko Willink?

  Cause why would anyone join if they didn't think they were going to make it?

• 16:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:44Jocko Willink?

  They all think they're going to make it.

• 16:45Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. Yeah, exactly.

• 16:46Jocko Willink?

  And you see studs quitting.

• 16:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 16:49Jocko Willink?

  Quit. So.

• 16:51Speaker 01

  Yep. And your, your whole thing, and I always looked at, and always look at, but when I think of BUDs, which is the primary time where people quit, right?

• 17:00Jocko Willink?

  Yep.

• 17:03Speaker 01

  I'm always, I always keep in mind that it's not even necessarily just quitting. There's way, there's many, many other ways for you not to make it.

• 17:10Jocko Willink?

  There are many, many other ways not to make it.

• 17:12Speaker 01

  And the injury part of it is, I always go to injury because that's, that's like similar to how sports are. You know, and people were like, hey, if I dedicate myself, it's like I, the chance of me going to a professional level is like pretty high.

• 17:24Jocko Willink?

  And so you misstep a quarter inch on some spin move and you blow out your Achilles and it's a game over.

• 17:29Speaker 01

  Exactly right. So some guys, because there's a lot of guys in sports and stuff where they play sports their whole life, really talented, genetically gifted, all this stuff. And they, so now it kind of gets narrowed down to work ethic and what they want to, you know, how they're going to plan to do this thing. And then the chances actually are pretty high if you exclude the potential for injury. But injury is like, that's one of those things that probably that's not up to you most, pretty much most of the time.

• 17:53Jocko Willink?

  There's, there's some other things that aren't up to you too. For instance, some people aren't comfortable in the water. And you can work on it a lot. But if you didn't grow up that way, it can be a problem. Some people aren't very good at shooting a pistol. Some people aren't really good at shooting a rifle. Some people aren't really good at spatial awareness. Some people have a hard time with their proprioception while they're skydiving and they can't flat, they can't do it.

• 18:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. So there's like things that you can fail, right?

• 18:25Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 18:25Speaker 01

  And like be out.

• 18:26Jocko Willink?

  You're out. Some people have the one mistake that they make is an accidental discharge on the range. You're done. You're done. So it's not just quitting. By the way, quitting is the vast majority. Quitting is the vast majority. But then it comes down to performance drops, which is like, oh, you failed a run. Now you failed another run. Yeah, but there's no, yeah, but you failed to run, you failed another run, you're out. There's no, yeah, but oh, you had water in your lungs, you had a cough, you had a sore knee, you had a sprained ankle. No one cares. Combat doesn't care and no one at BUDS cares. You failed underwater not tying.

• 19:09Jocko Willink?

  You failed some evolution in the pool. Some evolution in the pool. The tread. You know what the tread is? You're wearing your scuba gear and you gotta tread water with your hands out, out of the water.

• 19:24Jocko Willink?

  Dude, fail that.

• 19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 19:25Jocko Willink?

  You're done. Bye bye. So, there's a lot of things, it doesn't make a lot. So, that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground Podcast. So if you want to continue to listen,

• 19:43Jocko Willink?

  go to jockounderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is, free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you

• 20:15Jocko Willink?

  more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us.

• 20:21Jocko Willink?

  And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now. Where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So, thank you, it's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month and if you can afford to support us,

• 20:41Jocko Willink?

  we can still support you, just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.