Anthropic's Insane Valuation + The Future of Marketing

Scott Galloway breaks down why Anthropic is worth more than Walmart, whether we're in an AI bubble, and why traditional advertising careers are in freefall. Want to be featured in a future episode? Send a voice recording to [email protected], or drop your question in the r/ScottGalloway subreddit. Plus, you can now call or text Scott a question at our new Office Hours hotline: ‪(201) 472-3656‬. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:36Scott Galloway?

  Welcome to Office Hours with Prop G. This is the part of the show where we answer questions about business, big tech, entrepreneurship, and whatever else is on your mind. If you'd like to submit a question for next time, you can send a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected] or post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit, and we just might feature it in our next episode. Plus, you can now call or text us a question at 201-472-3656. That's 201-472-3656. All right, let's get into it. Our first question comes from Steve, who emailed us. He asks, "I'm a simpleton in investing who listens to Prop G regularly." I know both are different sectors, but can someone explain how Walmart,

• 2:16Scott Galloway?

  with revenues of approximately 713 billion and operating profit of around 30 billion, can have a lower valuation than Anthropic, which has revenue of approximately 70 billion and forecast a profit of around 2.2 billion? Is it forecasting revenue of 70 million? Is that evidence of a bubble? Or are investors simply pricing in much higher future growth and profitability for Anthropic? So typically, a stock price is meant to be the asset value, so just the land underneath the retail or the intellectual property it owns, plus the present value of growth opportunity or cash flow. So all of these assets should be able to create an asset or a series of assets that

• 3:01Scott Galloway?

  create revenue that is greater than the inputs to produce that revenue. That's profits. And then your growth or the multiple you get on those earnings, the P/E ratio is a function usually of how fast that is growing or how stable and durable those cash flows are. And the reason why SpaceX and Anthropic and OpenAI are going out at anywhere from 30 or 40 times revenues to 100 times revenues is that if people look at the adjustable market and think, wow, if this company continues to grow in fairly short order, it could be the most valuable company in the world. And right now, if you are buying into any of these three companies, there is, you're betting in an on zero probability that this could in fact be the most valuable company

• 3:45Scott Galloway?

  in the world, because these companies are going out at anywhere between $1 and $2 trillion and the most valuable company in the world, I think, is around 5 or 5.5. I can't remember if it's Nvidia or Apple. So you do end up with companies that are low growth, not exciting, not in software, don't have the margins of technology. You know, the adjustable market for Walmart is pretty big. I think it has a 9% or 11% share of retail. It's probably never going to get above 20, because consumers like at some point differentiation and want to shop at different places or regional friction, whatever it might be. But let's talk about TAM. I think Anthropic is 5 or 10 xing every year. So people look at that and think, wow, that could be an enormous company at some point. And because it is impact software at some point.

• 4:28Scott Galloway?

  When it hits breakeven, a lot of those additional revenues are going to flow to the bottom line. So what's the takeaway here? Let's, let's look at the numbers. Fiscal 2025 net sales of 675 million at Walmart, adjusted operating income of 30 billion, operating margin of 4.4%. And the market cap as of late was $1 trillion. So that's roughly one and a half times revenue or 34 times operating income, which is actually pretty rich for a retailer. Walmart's operating margin has climbed from 3.3% in fiscal 2023 to 4.3%. Walmart is just a different business. Walmart operates on the notion that their scale and their operational excellence, they can pass the savings on to a consumer.

• 5:09Scott Galloway?

  So there are only three things that matter, or lines that matter around shareholder value. There's the top line, which is perceived value. The next line, the middle line, is the price you charge, and the line below that is the cost to deliver that service. And all shareholder value is a function of the ratio between, or relative, relative distance between those lines. So Walmart is in the business of constantly pushing down the cost line. And then, once you do that, some wonderful things happen. If you can either pass along the savings and pull down the price line that you're charging consumers, which is what Walmart does, and then the gap between the price you charge consumers and perceived value broadens, and the value proposition goes up, and you should expand share. And that's been Walmart's strategy the whole time, is they don't, if

• 5:52Scott Galloway?

  they cut costs on operations such that they can ship a pallet of ginger ale to Arkansas more efficiently than someone else, they immediately pass those savings on to the consumer, and the value proposition of Walmart goes up. There's an old saying that starting to shop at Walmart is like getting a promotion in terms of the change in the quality of your life, because you can now afford to buy imported beer versus domestic beer, if that's, if that's what you want to do. Other companies such as a Tiffany or Hermes, their job, they're in the, they're in the job of pushing The perceived value line up as much as possible through innovation and scarcity and branding. And then that's wonderful because then the gap between the perceived value and the price they charge goes up, which should expand share.

• 6:34Scott Galloway?

  But typically what they do is they, as they push the perceived value line up, they raise the, the price. Effectively, what you're doing in these companies is they're trying to, they're trying to push the perceived value up dramatically. They're also raising so much capital that they can offer these products at an incredible value. So supposedly Claude Pro or Claude Max, it costs $200 a month, but supposedly right now it costs them $5,000 a month for the compute and the chips to offer you that service. So they're trying to just capture a ton of share. These companies are growing incredibly fast and their total adjustable market seems almost infinite, which results in just kind of what I feel would be insane valuations. Let's talk about Anthropic.

• 7:15Scott Galloway?

  So get this, the annual revenue trajectory was 87 million in January 2024 and it's 1 billion by 2024 and 9 billion by the end of 2025 and 30 billion by April 2026. So as you can see, this company, I mean Anthropic really is a miracle of American innovation. It was started five years ago and if it was in Europe, it'd be one of the five most valuable companies. The current run rate is about 40 billion AR, according to people with knowledge of the company's financials, and the valuation was 380 billion post-money at Series G in February and now it's in talks to raise money at a $900 billion pre-money. Internal documents project a $14 billion loss to 2026, no positive free cash flow until 2028 at the earliest. By the way, I think that's a couple of years earlier than the projected positive free cash

• 8:00Scott Galloway?

  flow date for OpenAI. So at a $900 billion valuation and 45 million in AR, that's roughly 20 times forward revenues compared to Walmart's one and a half. They're just different businesses with different expectations. I would, what's the answer here? You know, which is a better value? The answer is yes, and that is I think you want to invest in everything. I don't think you want to try and talk yourself into the illusion that you can find the needle in the haystack, buy the whole haystack, dollar cost in, low cost index fund so you don't pay fees or a lot of fees. So I do think there is a real serious bubble question. The bear case, Anthropic has taken roughly 72 billion in funding and does not have free cash flow projected until 2028 and AI.

• 8:47Scott Galloway?

  You know, at some point, AI is going to stop growing at the same pace. I think also, I think there's some existential threat from open way, open weight LLMs out of China, regulatory concerns. I think the next big populist movement isn't immigration or affordability. It's AI regulation, which has fans on both sides of the aisle. So, you know, are we in a bubble? Probably, but it's really hard to tell when the bubble is going to pop. It was obvious we were in a dot com bubble in 1997, and yet the NASDAQ, I think, tripled. So it's very hard to time the market. And I think what you want to do is just always be in the market, always continue to save money and invest in the market and be diversified in low-cost index funds such that you don't

• 9:27Scott Galloway?

  have to try and figure out if Walmart or Anthropic is the better value. The honest answer is, I don't know. That's the bad news. The good news is, no, or does anybody else? Yeah. Is it a bubble? Or are these companies going to go up because of the incredible TAM? I think the answer is yes.

• 9:46Scott Galloway?

  Question number two.

• 9:47Speaker 05

  Hi, Scott. This is Mark from Dallas. My daughter is heading to college this fall as an advertising major. She's looking at a career in brand or events management. But I listen to the pod and I hear your warnings. You've made it clear that Don Draper's version of advertising is dead, that the brand era is over, and that AI is coming for the creative class. My question is, is an advertising degree still a viable path to a high-earning career? Or is it a waste of tuition in 2026? If this were your daughter, would you tell her to pivot now?

• 10:28Speaker 05

  Or is there a way to AI-proof a career in this field? Thanks for everything you do.

• 10:35Scott Galloway?

  Thanks for the question. I get this question a lot. So.

• 10:41Scott Galloway?

  I think a lot of it is words. I think that they should change the name of the degree to marketing or customer acquisition, or I don't know, something that feels a little bit more underage. Because advertising, when people hear advertising, they think of a 60 second spot telling you have opioid induced constipation ads in the middle of CBS News. The broadcast advertising business is just in structural decline. It just is. And probably the, I would argue, the kind of pivot moment that illuminated it was that Steve Jobs decided to take $6 billion out of broadcast advertising and go further down the stack and open 550 temples to the brand, and that was Apple stores. So he invested in distribution as opposed to pre-purchase branding. Effectively, the way you build brands from 1945 to 1995

• 11:22Scott Galloway?

  was there, Americans were sitting in front of a TV five hours a day and watching one or three channels. So you could literally reach the entire public with two or three nights of advertising. That has obviously fragmented. There are now hundreds of channels and hundreds of other options where vying for your attention. In addition, the cost to advertise on the Academy Awards has gone up fivefold despite the fact the audience has declined by two thirds. So one of two things has happened. Either broadcast advertising is a terrible value now, or back when I was growing up, it was an unbelievable value. And the reality is, is mostly the latter. And that is, you could have a shitty shoe, a shitty car, a shitty salty snack, a shitty sugary beverage. And if you created these

• 12:04Scott Galloway?

  associations of European elegance, or American masculinity, or paternal love, or maternal love, choosing mom's shoes, Jeff, you could put out a mediocre market, capture all of the emotions of the majority of the nation on a fairly limited, you know, advertising budget, and then sell 30 or 20 cents of peanut butter paste for two bucks. So that was the kind of the algorithm for creating shareholder value. And then with Google and weapons of mass diligence that came out from TripAdvisor to AI. You've seen a vast migration of capital out of advertising into distribution, see above Apple, or post-purchase branding, which is either influencer, social media, warranties, customer service, CRM, all that good stuff. So I don't like the term advertising, but

• 12:49Scott Galloway?

  marketing, or whatever you would call it, customer engagement, customer ROI, we need better terms. I do think it's a decent education, learning how to communicate with people, and actually, communication is a better word, and try to create emotion that results in margin. And that is, brand is kind of Latin for margin or emotion. And what you want is irrational margins from consumers. So I want to drive something with a stallion logo on the hood of my car, a Ferrari, I don't own a car, actually, because it says something about me. It says I'm masculine, successful, European grace, have the money to buy Ferrari, please have sex with me. And I think the majority of really high-margin brands are doing one of two things, making you feel closer to God, or giving you the

• 13:33Scott Galloway?

  sense that you'd be more attractive to a broader selection set of mates. But I think that the skills you get in communications is the strong line, how to figure out a market, how to figure out what moves people, figure out distribution, figure out technology, different channels to reach them. So I think that you have, I think this is what I call, it's not the default career path it used to be, but, you know, it is, it does teach, I think, really strong skills. So the ad model, when I was coming out of business school, the titans of industry were Maurice Levy, Martin Sorrell, John Ren, so IPG, Omnicom, WPP.

• 14:15Scott Galloway?

  And these companies are kind of meaningless now. When I go to Cannes Lions, they used to be the masters of the universe. Now it's Google, Meta, Pinterest, Spotify, and these guys are basically like running Irish bars and hosting 10 or 12 people. You know, it's just not, if you're under the age of 40, I would suggest not going or getting out of the ad-supported ecosystem. I just think that system is getting harder and harder every year, and the oxygen continues to get sucked out by Google and Meta. If you're already doing well in one of those businesses, that still, you know, agencies aren't in the advertising business anymore, and they're in the kind of client management business, helping them navigate a very complex world, and helping them do good media buys. What your daughter is talking about where I think there's huge growth is events,

• 14:56Scott Galloway?

  and that is activations. And so I speak at a lot of these events. And I just spoke at RBC in Vancouver, Canada. They easily spend $2 or $3 million on a 36-hour event for their most important clients. So I'll speak at Dreamforce, they probably spend $10 million. I just got off a live tour for Prof G Markets. There were six people managing the venues, the events, the lighting, the guests. You know, I think activations and people wanting to get out and touch grass, if you will, and events. Netflix will do a pop-up at Cannes Lions featuring their latest shows, and they'll spend a ton of time and money and energy. So we'll Snap, we'll have something really cool, they'll take over a big chalet. So I think that if you're organized, creative, a good manager, I think event marketing is

• 15:41Scott Galloway?

  going to boom, if you will. But traditional advertising, wow, watch out below. And by the way, what I would tell my daughter is don't follow your talent. I wouldn't be like, oh, just do what makes you happy. I would say, find something you're really good at. That's your job. And going to college, just find the subject material you think you're great at. Take a bunch of classes you otherwise wouldn't take to see if something surprises you. Try and throw on some STEM. Try, I would very much try and figure out a way to take classes that force you to write, English or communication, because I think that's the basis of all storytelling, which I still think is the enduring skill. But boss, let's be honest, we can tell our daughters whatever we want. They're going to do what they want. But if your daughter, these are good problems. If your daughter's headed to college, you're

• 16:24Scott Galloway?

  obviously an engaged father. You know, I think that's kind of 90% of success right there. Thanks for the question. We'll be right back after a quick break.

• 16:40Scott Galloway?

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• 17:25Scott Galloway?

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• 17:43Scott Galloway?

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• 18:54Scott Galloway?

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• 19:39Scott Galloway?

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• 20:05Scott Galloway?

  Welcome back. Question number three.

• 20:07Speaker 06

  Hey Scott, my name's Seth. I just turned 40. I have a one year old daughter, a baby boy on the way, and maybe one more kid after that. I love being a dad and I'm more family oriented than work centric. But career is still really important to me and I want to move from middle management to executive leadership this decade. As I enter my prime earning years with my kids in diapers, I wonder if I'm at a career disadvantage compared to fathers who had started their families at 30 versus 40. Life pushed things back. Career setbacks, finding the right partner, years of IVF. But here I am.

• 20:49Speaker 06

  I feel I need to be more present with my kids now, not less, but this may limit my professional growth. Having had your first son at 42 and raising young men while you're in your 60s, do you wish you had kids earlier? How did becoming a father in your 40s shape your ambitions and relationship with work? Thanks Scott and thank you for helping shape a healthier public discourse on being a man and father.

• 21:16Scott Galloway?

  So thanks for the question and congrats. If I could go back, it would be to when I had little kids and,

• 21:23Scott Galloway?

  you know, those were the solid days for me. I think I'll look back on the happiest time of my life and I'll be when our kids used to bomb into our room on a Sunday morning and jump into bed with us. Look, there's no right way, there's your way. And that is. There's no such thing as balance. There's just trade offs. And I can't stand it when thought leaders or people giving advice or whatever say, oh, you know, always prioritize family, you won't regret it. Yeah, maybe. We live in a capitalist society and

• 21:52Scott Galloway?

  money is not only freedom and optionality, it's health. People in the upper decile of income earning homes live seven to 10 years longer than people in the lowest decile. So I think you just have to get alignment with your partner and recognize there is no balance, there's just trade offs. So you might decide that you want to move to a lower cost part of the world, manage your finances tightly and you and your wife decide that you're going to prioritize family and you're going to work 40 hours a week and coach Little League and go to church and be a good American and have a really nice life. And a lot of people do that and are happy and move to a place where they can buy a house for $300,000. So that is, you know, there's a lot of people are very happy living that life. I didn't want to live that life. I wanted more money. I wanted to live in New York.

• 22:37Scott Galloway?

  I wanted to be more, I don't know what the term is, I don't want to say call it more relevant, but I wanted more curb success, if you will. You never was been very insecure about money. So I made the decision for that trade off. And that is I got alignment with my partner and I said, there's going to be times when I'm on the road for two or three weeks. I used to, I remember I was running a company called L2, which helped luxury brands benchmark their digital competence and luxury brands happen to be located a lot in Paris or Milan or, you know, I would travel to Seoul to meet with Samsung and then to Ingolstadt, Germany to meet with Audi. And I remember coming home a few times after being on the road for two or three weeks and I'd look in, peer my head into my kids' room when they were your age and I'd notice

• 23:22Scott Galloway?

  they physically had grown since I left and I'd get all bummed out. But me and my partner decided that we wanted the optionality later in life that money affords you. I have a, I have a tremendous amount of balance right now. You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I can fly home whenever I want them in New York and then I'm going to go spend some time with my kids. One of my kids is in the Dolomites hiking with his mom and then we're all, you know, we're going to World Cup and we just get to do these amazing, have these amazing experiences and we, I mean, I'm boasting now, but it came at a cost. I don't, I have so much optionality now and fun things in my life because. Boss, I was working like 14 hours a day when they were babies and even kids.

• 24:05Scott Galloway?

  I missed a lot. I don't wanna, I missed a lot. Now, for me, it was worth it. And there's always a risk you work that hard and you don't get there. And then you're like, that's really a bummer. But I decided the one thing I could control was how hard I worked. And I made that sacrifice. And most importantly, I had alignment with my partner that that's what we were gonna do. And she was very supportive of that. But it comes at a cost. I think you've just got to sit down with your partner, establish what is really important to you, recognizing the realities of capitalist society where there's a lot of things that are just gonna be easier for you and your kids if you have a certain amount of economic security. That comes at a, that in order to achieve that, it requires real sacrifice and real trade offs. And I just think you have to have a sober conversation.

• 24:49Scott Galloway?

  And what I find a little bit disheartening sometimes when I talk to young people is I ask them how much money they expect to be making at 30 or 35. And some of this is proximity bias because the kids I'm around are very ambitious at a business school. But I'd say 80% of them expect to be in the top 10%, if not the top 1%. And then they use the word balance. I think, bitch, unless you're smart enough to be born, smart enough to have rich parents, get over that. I don't know anyone who gets to the top 10%, much less the top 1% without making a huge sacrifice in their relationships, their health, their quality of life, their mental well-being. Shit is hard. You know, work is really, there's a lot of, there's, what is it, the average income per capita globally is $16,000 or $18,000?

• 25:34Scott Galloway?

  So if you want more than that, you're gonna have to be more innovative or work harder or be born in a better place than those people. So, you know, I just think it requires a sober conversation about the trade offs. And then to get alignment, decide where you want to be on that spectrum of trade off. And then to have an honest conversation and get alignment with your partner. But boss, I don't, I can't tell you which way to go. I think it's a very personal decision. I went the way of trying to maximize economic security. And, you know, some of that is probably also ego. I get my identity from work. Which is sort of pathetic, but it's true. And it worked out for me. So I have a tendency to tell people to sacrifice when they're young. But if you think about what it means to be mature,

• 26:19Scott Galloway?

  it's prioritizing the future. And that is sacrifice now. Think about the education system. The education system is basically everywhere trying to do one thing. And that is trying to help kids connect sacrifice now with reward later. Don't play video games now. Study for your chemistry exam because you'll get better grades, get into a better school, have better opportunities, find a higher character mate and die in a nice home as opposed to having frustration and anxiety your whole life. Everything is about trying to prioritize the future, if you will. So, you know, what does that lend to? Probably sacrifice now versus later. But again, you know, a lot of people look back and regret not spending more time with their kids. Do I regret it? No, I miss it.

• 27:04Scott Galloway?

  I would have liked to have had more, but I have a lot of time with my kids now. Word salad. Life is trade offs. There is no balance. Decide where you want to be on the spectrum. Get alignment with your partner. That's all for this episode. If you'd like to submit a question, please email a voice recording to [email protected]. Again, that's [email protected]. Or if you prefer to ask on Reddit, just post your question on the Scott Galloway subreddit and we might feature it in an upcoming episode. This episode was produced by Jennifer Sanchez and Laura Janer. Kami Rique is our social producer. Brad Williams is our editor. Andrew Burrows is our technical director. Thank you for listening to the Prop G Pod from Prop G Media.

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