PREDATOR: BADLANDS Spoiler Special (w/Dan Trachtenberg)

The buzz is real. The latest Predator film is awesome so it's time for a deep dive into PREDATOR: BADLANDS with director Dan Trachtenberg. Alien connections, sequel plans, James Cameron's advice -- it's all here! UPCOMING EVENTS Brendan Fraser 11/18 in NYC -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, Sad, Confused begins now.

• 1:07Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Today, it's a spoiler special for Predator: Badlands with the director, Dan Trachtenberg. Hey guys, thanks as always for joining me on the podcast. If you're watching this, you can see I'm in a little bit of a different environment right now. I'm in Los Angeles. I was out here taping a few really exciting things and an upcoming podcast, a new series, and hosting the red carpet for Stranger Things: Season 5, which is epic, huge. Today's episode, though, most importantly, is all about Predator, and specifically Predator: Badlands, which is now out in theaters. This movie is so good. You're gonna hear me gush a lot, so I apologize in advance, but...

• 1:53Josh Horowitz?

  Dan Trachtenberg, Tankover Field Lane, Prey, Predator Killer of Killers. He knows his stuff. This is a guy I've known for a while, who, we've been talking for a while, and we kind of run into each other things, and you know, we have mutuals. He's never done the podcast. We are, you're gonna experience a little bit of a mutual admiration society. Again, apologies. Dan is very kind, a devoted fan of Happy Sec Confused. I'm a devoted fan of his. So if you can't stand 45 minutes of men gushing about each other's work, you're listening or watching the wrong podcast. I saw this movie recently, and as I said to Dan, like, to be honest, like, I'm like, running around, I have no room in the schedule,

• 2:37Josh Horowitz?

  and I'm like, I have to, it's time, I have to do Dan. This movie's so good. So this was recorded in this crappy hotel room at 6:00 a.m. Hopefully, I was semi-coherent for catching up with Dan. Luckily, he's very articulate, knows his stuff, and had a lot to say, and to unload some spoiler stuff. So like I said, this is best experienced, I mean, don't watch or listen to this until you've seen Predator Badlands, because what are you doing to yourself? Experience the movie, enjoy it. But if you have seen it, this is for you. We dissect a lot of cool moments, Easter eggs, connections to other films. It's no secret that this has linkage to the Alien franchise.

• 3:21Josh Horowitz?

  But take away all those bells and whistles, this is just a rockin', great, action-adventure sci-fi movie. So you guys are in for a treat if you haven't seen it yet, and if you have, you know what I'm talking about. Other things to mention, really quickly, I'll just tease some other things going on. Patreon.com/happysecconfused, all the info, early access, discount codes, including upcoming events. I've got one next week in New York. Is it next week? Actually, I think by the time you listen to this, it's gonna be this week. Yeah, I think so. November 18th, it's coming up soon. Brendan Fraser, talking rental family, but his entire career. He's never done the podcast. I'm so excited. Brendan, a living legend. So we're gonna screen the movie at 92Y,

• 4:04Josh Horowitz?

  then I'm gonna have a big career chat with him. There's a lot of great episodes in the can.

• 4:12Josh Horowitz?

  It's a good time for movies right now. I love the fall. It's great. Stranger Things, a really cool podcast I just recorded. I'll say it because I posted the photo. Winona Ryder's back. Of course she's back. You guys know I'm obsessed with Winona. She's the best. Fourth time on the podcast. That's coming up soon.

• 4:32Josh Horowitz?

  Maybe some other Stranger Things podcasts too. I will just tease. Nothing firmed up, but we've been talking about some other people. So we're going to cover this last season in a big way. I think unhappy, sad, confused. I'm very excited for everything to come on the pod the last couple of months of the year because we're, yeah, we got some cool stuff cooking. So stay tuned. I'm gonna let you guys enjoy this now. Like I said, Dan Trachtenberg, you know him, you love him. Ten Cloverfield Lane, Prey, Killer of Killers, and now Predator Badlands. This guy knows his stuff. And I think, I think this conversation started in a very casual way, so it's gonna feel a little organic, but that's all good. Here's me catching up with director Dan Trachtenberg. Enjoy. We're doing it.

• 5:16Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh. Can't believe it.

• 5:19Josh Horowitz?

  We couldn't, we couldn't do another 10 years of dancing around each other. Hi Dan.

• 5:24Speaker 04

  I, I'm in my home in Philadelphia, my, my, my childhood home.

• 5:29Josh Horowitz?

  Oh.

• 5:30Speaker 04

  And, and tucked away in a, in a room, borrowing a computer and all that stuff. So sorry for the, all the crazy.

• 5:38Josh Horowitz?

  No, yeah, I get it. You know how to read. You have books behind you, dude.

• 5:42Speaker 04

  This is, this doesn't even, we're not even gonna talk about my mom's, uh, this is a crazy thing.

• 5:49Josh Horowitz?

  It's good to see you. Yeah.

• 5:50Speaker 04

  I am, I am, uh, I only half gushed when we saw each other a comic and I'm, I'm ready to full, full gush.

• 5:59Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, I want, I want like 10%. Don't do too much. I mean, and luckily, dude, I'm doing, I mean, not this, like, I always want to do this, but like, I'm doing this at 6 a.m. after I hosted the Stranger Things premiere last night in LA.

• 6:13Speaker 04

  Oh my gosh.

• 6:13Josh Horowitz?

  I loved this movie and I, I know we wanted to do this for a while, but like I saw the movie and I'm like, okay, we're gonna, we have to make this happen because the movie's so fucking good, man. I mean,

• 6:21Speaker 04

  Thank you. Thank you in so many ways. But I'm a, I'm a long time fan and I've always been.

• 6:32Speaker 04

  So curious about your story and and because I'm here, I was thinking about. I feel like and I I maybe I I haven't listened to every episode, so I don't know if more has been told, but you re. I remember that.

• 6:46Speaker 04

  Did one episode, I I feel like it may have been from your childhood home with your brother. That was a rare thing. And I've always just found that.

• 7:01Speaker 04

  You. I think when I first started listening to you, I was like, why is he so it it sounds like he works in the business. It doesn't sound like. You're super objective and and come from a place of of journalism as much as like. Having been inside it, which may just be that you're that insightful. Or. From stuff with your brother, I do not know. But and you also.

• 7:34Speaker 04

  Which I know that you are aware of, but there's this crazy thing that anytime I see a a headline. Of an interesting story, it's always from you. It's like always from you.

• 7:46Josh Horowitz?

  To an obnoxious level. No, I appreciate that. That's very sweet.

• 7:50Speaker 04

  It's really we. It's really weird that and you you have a very disarming way about you and and so.

• 7:57Speaker 04

  The chats feel more like friends catching up than they do feel investigatory, so.

• 8:04Speaker 04

  You get people are comfortable and they and they share things that maybe they wouldn't when we're all so prepared to like sell a movie or TV show or whatever it is. But the only time I ever heard you be nervous. Do you know the one time that you feel like you were the most nervous?

• 8:19Josh Horowitz?

  No, I I well, let's see if it.

• 8:22Speaker 04

  Because you're normally very much not.

• 8:25Speaker 04

  But. Indiana Jones Harrison Ford.

• 8:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 8:29Speaker 04

  Yeah. You used to do a thing where people grab out of a hat.

• 8:32Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Indiana Jones hat. Yeah.

• 8:34Speaker 04

  Indiana Jones hat. Yeah.

• 8:35Josh Horowitz?

  That's amazing. I was nervous. That was a junket and I was like. A shorter thing. And yeah, he's Harrison Ford.

• 8:43Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's a shorter thing. You don't have time to like nestle.

• 8:45Josh Horowitz?

  And he's famously just like so dry. And so, I mean, he's great. But I actually loved the way that interview came out. But you're right. Like, I walked into that room like, okay, how do I get something?

• 8:56Speaker 04

  I heard a difference in you that is not like the way you normally are. But what is your?

• 9:03Josh Horowitz?

  Dan, we're gonna, okay, you got two more minutes and then we're going.

• 9:05Speaker 04

  Okay, just give me a little bit and then we can talk. But what, how? How did you gain the superpower? What was the, what formed this?

• 9:15Josh Horowitz?

  I did my 10,000 hours, to be honest. I failed before I like got comfortable. Like, I was like, you know, I, you know, we probably share a similar early background. I was, you know, I went to like sci fi conventions. I was like a crazy pop culture nerd with my older brother. And like did college radio and did like anonymous interviews for like years and years and years. So by the time, like, I didn't start to do on camera till I was 30. So I think there was that. And I don't know, like, if, when I self analyze, I do think my, I think you've analyzed it well. Like, my superpower, if there is one, is like, I do talk to everybody the same way. Like, I'm able to shut out 99% of the time outside of Harrison Ford.

• 10:00Speaker 04

  Right.

• 10:01Josh Horowitz?

  The part of my brain that's like, why am I talking to my childhood crush, Winona Ryder, right now? Like, this does not compute.

• 10:09Speaker 04

  Right.

• 10:09Josh Horowitz?

  And I have so much love. This is not, I'm not faking it. You know, I love this shit. And like, hopefully that comes through. So I, yeah, I don't know how to teach.

• 10:18Speaker 04

  100%.

• 10:19Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know how to teach a course of what I do.

• 10:20Speaker 04

  Were you like an intern at MTV and then?

• 10:23Josh Horowitz?

  My, my, my quick, my quick background is I was, so college radio, I worked for Charlie Rose right out of school. Remember the Charlie Rose Show? I was a producer there for four years. And that guy, say what you will about him, he did exhaustive in-depth interviews. So I learned how to prep and research and go hardcore into it.

• 10:42Speaker 04

  Ah.

• 10:43Josh Horowitz?

  And like I said, lived kind of a life before I started to actually do this.

• 10:46Speaker 04

  I see. I see. Okay.

• 10:49Josh Horowitz?

  That's okay. But they're not here for me, Dan. Look, we've.

• 10:53Speaker 04

  No, I think we are a little bit. I think we are, but go ahead. Yeah.

• 10:56Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so this is, so some further context for the folks out there. It's, um, we're taping this on opening day for Predator Badlands. Um, and this is a, a really, really great movie, great Predator movie, great like adventure sci-fi movie. Um, and Dan and I, as you can tell, guys, if you're listening or watching, we know each other to a degree because we've kind of traveled in the same spaces, but we've never done this deep dive and I, and I, and I want to do this, hopefully talk a little spoilers if that's okay with you. We're gonna run this after.

• 11:26Speaker 04

  I'm thrilled to. I'm thrilled to. That's, I'm like, oh my God, to talk about the movie as the movie is.

• 11:31Josh Horowitz?

  Okay.

• 11:32Speaker 04

  Is great.

• 11:33Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so first, just a little context, some of the basics that you have been talking about a little bit. Um, germ of the idea for Predator Badlands, is it about, I've heard you talk about this, but like, there is that funny thing when you start to think about the Predator in these movies, it's like, it's the most, you know, amazing species that always somehow gets its ass kicked. So it's time.

• 11:54Speaker 04

  It's time.

• 11:55Josh Horowitz?

  Right?

• 11:55Speaker 04

  It's time. Um, and the, it's just the, the next thought there is like, okay, so let's make a Predator movie where he wins. Um, but that, a slasher movie where the bad guy wins in the end. Is it, is it, was a fun thing, although it kind of happens a lot in slasher movies anyway. There's always the like, one extra shot of, you know, the, the, the coda is usually in this slasher. Um, so that didn't excite me and did not make for, maybe, maybe have made for another, I could figure out another cool Predator movie, but not for an actual great movie, all encompassing film. So, um, thought a little bit harder, uh,

• 12:40Speaker 04

  and, and, and got to a place where it was like, maybe the Predator is on the same journey that normally the human is on. Um, and that leads to this great place where that's not just cool for a Predator movie. That's cool for a sci-fi movie. We, we have, how many? Movies have we seen? Where we've fallen in love with the creature sidekicks? Um, and the, you know, and even the villains, even the monsters in the movie. Um, and for the first time now, it's, it's not, uh, it's not, it's not, it's not even, it's, there's a little, there's quite a bit of T2 influence in this, in this movie. I was gonna say. But even, but even T2, it's John Connor's movie and,

• 13:22Speaker 04

  and Arnold's the sidekick. So really going even further and of all the creatures. Like, it feels a little bit more accessible when you think about Chewbacca doing it. Um, but the ugly, the like famously ugly motherfucker and like that's who we're hitching you to. And yes, we're gonna make you feel things for that and, um, and still let it be ferocious and vicious and, and brutal. So, um, that was the like call to action of like, holy crap, this could be a really cool movie.

• 14:03Speaker 00

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• 14:33Speaker 05

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• 15:06Josh Horowitz?

  And you set it up in such a great way, the pre-credit sequence like had me. It's such a good, and you immediately feel for Deck and you realize that this is, as you watch the film further, there's this great symmetry. It's a film about siblings, the film about, you know, the outcast sibling.

• 15:26Josh Horowitz?

  Talk a little bit about that first opening sequence because that like, if you can't, if you don't accomplish that, first you, it's a kick-ass, dramatic, emotional sequence, but it also puts you on Deck's side and makes you immediately feel for, for the first time for the Predator.

• 15:41Speaker 04

  The North Star for me for openings is not Raiders. I knew you were thinking it. The North Star openings for me are two JJ movies.

• 15:55Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, Star Trek, of course.

• 15:57Speaker 04

  What's that?

• 15:58Josh Horowitz?

  Star Trek has to be one of them, yeah.

• 15:59Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 15:59Josh Horowitz?

  All time.

• 16:00Speaker 04

  I mean, how, what other opening are you crying, like bawling, like Marley and Me, end of movie typical tears, in the first five minutes of a movie, you know?

• 16:12Josh Horowitz?

  Let's call them Jim, Jim, and the Gekino score kicks in. I mean, it kills me every time.

• 16:18Speaker 04

  Gone, gone. And Super 8 has, it opens on two shots back to back. I've always wanted to get them framed and put on my office wall that is like someone changing a sign that says, "We haven't had an accident in so many days and it's being changed to zero." And the very next shot is a lone house in a suburb and a kid on a swing set and the door opens with a father coming. It's like, it's like, I know everything I need to know in two images. They don't even need to have been moving, though they are, but like two images. So that's always the holy grail every time, but, but this time especially like getting, getting people on the side of

• 17:04Speaker 04

  the quote unquote monster was really thinking about,

• 17:11Speaker 04

  it's gotta happen right away. There's also like hitman movie logic, gangster movie logic of, and From Dust Till Dawn a little bit too of like you're with the bad guys because they're up against something even worse than them, you know? And that, that in this movie had to be. Emotional and physical. So.

• 17:36Josh Horowitz?

  And did you hit, did you hit upon that kind of linkage between, you know, Thea and her sister, as it were, Deck and his brother pretty early on, I go, this is, this is a thematic linkage. That's gonna work.

• 17:46Speaker 04

  Yeah, characters that are.

• 17:50Speaker 04

  Outcasts that are seen as broken.

• 17:54Speaker 04

  That are trying to break a site. I love. That one of my favorite movies is Magnolia and there's a line in Magnolia that says, maybe don't the past, but the past ain't done with you. I think that is the only thematic in movies that needs to be investigated. If we have that in stories, we have enough to like. Live as a culture. So I'm always interested in, in characters breaking cycles and dealing with the burden of where they've come from.

• 18:21Speaker 04

  And these are two characters that are trying to be more than where they came from. Uh, or eventually, eventually trying to, to be more than.

• 18:31Speaker 04

  Where they came from. Yeah.

• 18:32Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know about you, Dan, but having seen all these movies all these years, I think it's time to stop trusting Waylon Mutani. I, I don't know if they're a reputable organization. Someone to investigate them.

• 18:43Speaker 04

  I concur. I, I concur. Uh, and, and, and such is tends to be the case. In life. Um, with our many corporations that we. Know. Sometimes their best interest is not in the public and yet we still.

• 19:02Speaker 04

  Endure and receive, you know, and, and utilize this stuff from the corporations. So.

• 19:07Josh Horowitz?

  So, so L's characters follows in a long line. I'm, I've always been a sucker. I'm sure you have for, you know, Ian Holm, Lance Henriksen, all these scents, like these characters are like some of my favorites in the Alien movies. And these two are fantastic. You talked about this a little bit, but let's, let's talk a little bit about connecting. Waylon Mutani, Alien into this in the way that you did. Just happened organically. It's not like a corporate mandate. Like, hey, wanna think about Alien in here? Or like, give me a sense.

• 19:35Speaker 04

  The opposite. No, none of this movie, none of this movie was the corporate. No one was like. Hey dude, next up, make one with like very little actors that'll help us sell the movie, you know, like and a monster that, you know, like no one, everyone who likes Predator, you know, has never really asked for this kind of, you know, like, um, none of this is a, none of this, it's, you know, because there's obviously, there's oh, there's always a thing from anything that comes from Disney, um, where people say Disneyfication of something or whatever it is, or did, oh, look at Disney, they're doing this. Let me tell you, they did not ask, this is all, if you don't, if you're not cool with the movie, it's this guy's fault,

• 20:14Speaker 04

  I assure you. Um, and, uh, and yeah, no, the, I, I really, um, was just thinking about if I, as soon as I put a human in the movie, um, that then it's, then it becomes T2, which is great, but that exists, you know, it's going to become, um, uh, we're, we, we as the creators of it, and also at, at the end, the audience will just sort of more attached to the human, um, and the monster. So there was sort of a rule from, from the start as I was thinking about like, okay, no humans. And the next thought was like monster and robot, there's something, but something sort of Miyazaki feeling about that, or, um, and, and then the next thought was like, holy crap, wait a second.

• 20:59Josh Horowitz?

  Sitting here, it's right there.

• 21:00Speaker 04

  It's right there. It's right there. Yeah. Wait, then you tell me.

• 21:04Josh Horowitz?

  So is there any permutation of this where you lean even more in, where they're hunting the xenomorph, where there's, there's a little bit even more of a overt alien overlap?

• 21:17Speaker 04

  Um, I just think this is where I'm like, my, I'm like, this is how Josh gets it. This is how he, this is how he does it. I'm gonna be.

• 21:28Josh Horowitz?

  I don't know what you're talking about.

• 21:29Speaker 04

  No, it, it, like, um, I forget the line from Superman, but, but like it's more punk rock to me that there is no xenomorph in this movie. And the longer we can go, but I, who know, you know, whatever, but it's just really cool. This is a, there's probably is precedent that someone will, will point out. Um, but it's typically when you have two things from different IP or franchise, whatever, coming together, it's the things, it's the, it's, it's the.

• 21:58Speaker 04

  It's the action figures, you know, um, and it's just so cool to me um that we've just taken an element. We could do that. We can do that. We can just take this one element and that's

• 22:12Speaker 04

  fusing to Predator and we'll let this cook and whatever, you know, come blossoms from there um will be awesome, but and it would be great. I I I concur. It would be really cool. Um, and people have to fall in love with one movie at a time, uh, obviously. Um, but it would be great if eventually there's a crossover. It's not like, I mean, a a a heavier crossover with with with Zeno's. Um, it's not a marketing gimmick. It's not like the entire point of the movie is the crossover.

• 22:46Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  Um, it'd be great if it came from the narrative of either that we would be building on or um, that's just genuinely awesome for that movie, you know?

• 22:58Josh Horowitz?

  So speaking of crossover elements, I mean, one moment, you know, she emerges in something akin to the power loader of of aliens. Is that another iteration essentially of the aliens power loader?

• 23:10Speaker 04

  Thousand percent. That is meant that is we that is referred to us as the super power loader. Um, yeah, I know that was every intention of being and I had to tell you.

• 23:21Speaker 04

  Yeah, it was it was actually, um, there's a challenge there because the temptation was you want to see the Predator up against something really gnarly and technological. Um, and you want to indulge in all the mech stuff that you you possibly could. Um, but A, Mr. Mr. Jim Cameron, um, really indulged in that in Avatar, um, growing up what she deserves to as he as he, you know, as he born and bred it in some in so many ways.

• 24:03Speaker 04

  But also, like, the thing that makes it distinct, what was so cool in Aliens, was that you saw it in the beginning as a piece of utility equipment.

• 24:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 24:17Speaker 04

  Um, and that's what it defines Waylon Utani. I always, I try as hard as I can, a mantra throughout developing and, and production and, and the whole way across. It's like, what can happen in only this movie? Um, because there's tons in my, a mech can be in Avatar, can be in Pacific. Lots of movies can have a mech fighting something. Um, but only in this movie with Waylon Utani can it be an ancestor of the power, like, can it be a power loader thing? And so, um, was challenging to devise it around a piece of, that equipment that made sense as made for utility.

• 25:03Speaker 04

  Um, that could then be weaponized and, um, and all that, yeah.

• 25:07Josh Horowitz?

  Well, and I think what you toe the line very well and like, I don't want to crap on another movie because I actually loved what Fede did. I loved his last Alien movie. I think he did a great job. I think some people had a quibble. I'm not gonna put you on the spot, but like the, the quoting of the line, the get away from her, you bitch is like one, one step too much for, like, we don't need, like, you know, to like underline it. And you don't underline the power loader. For those that remember Aliens, it's like, oh, that, I see the connection and I even had to clarify it with you. And, um, that, I think less is more in something like that.

• 25:37Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's so funny. I actually thought it would be obvious, but it hasn't. I thought as soon as we put a little glimpse in the trailer, like, oh my God, they're all gonna like say. And people weren't saying it. Admittedly, our trip, we kept it pretty dark in the trailers, but, but even now. Um, yeah, the line stuff is, is just always hard. We, we, we had a line in Prey. Um, and, uh, and I, and I think that went over okay. I, the, the trick is like.

• 26:09Speaker 04

  It it's a line that would be said anyway, you know, like in that moment, it's it would be necessary to say that as opposed to this is is definitely here for Yeah. Um, a moment and we avoided and and and also because the temptation, what do you all day, every day on set, everyone is pitching. Wouldn't it be fun if, you know, on prey, everyone was like, let's name a horse chopper, you know, you know, like, you know, or like the the the fur trappers would be like, get to chopping her or something, you know, like it it it it's fun to joke around and and and and of course, the temptation is is right

• 26:51Speaker 04

  in front of us. I will say, we tried very hard. Um, ultimately, there's a little bit of wiggle in the end, but the the callusk, um, the creature that cannot be killed, does not bleed.

• 27:11Speaker 04

  Like visually, like you like there's, there's a little bit of when it's when it's saw spinning Yeah. our minds, that's just flesh that's being spun around, you know, you see it reconstruct itself and there's no, there's no blood dripping whenever it reconforms and all that stuff. Just so we had our internal kind of like, it's fine, it's not bleeding, so you can't, you can't kill it.

• 28:09Speaker 05

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• 28:42Josh Horowitz?

  Let me ask you this. The ending, always the way you wanted to end it, mom coming. What were the permutations? What were you thinking about?

• 28:52Speaker 04

  I would say the ending went through growth, a lot of growth. The original coda, the same kind of stuff happened, but it was much more brief. It was much more kurosawa. It was actually a lot like the ending of the samurai, the sword chapter in Killer of Killers. It was a standoff. They charged each other, deck and father. And then you saw green blood dripping. You didn't know whose it was. And we boom up and reveal his gauntlet's got blood on it and dad has been sliced. And then Big Bud comes over and chomps the head.

• 29:37Speaker 04

  And that was it.

• 29:38Josh Horowitz?

  Cut to black.

• 29:39Speaker 04

  Cut to black in so many ways. And the first time we tested it, they were like, we want more. You know, like more dad, come on, dad's so badass. We want more, we want more. So that's what evolved. We really added quite that whole end fight, the brothers or the other guards and so much more with dad. And then also that mother ending. And I really can't place...

• 30:16Speaker 04

  When that first, I think I was thinking about the end of um of Killer Killers and and the spaceship going off into the sunset, just like that, like that Apocalypse Now-y thing and um and like inverting that and having something, you know what it is, it's like there's just something to me and Cloverfield ain't ended in this way too of like you forged a character through the fires of one movie um uh and the idea of like it's not over yet for them, but but now they are ready for it in a new way.

• 30:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:51Speaker 04

  I've always loved the surge of that um.

• 30:55Josh Horowitz?

  Ready for the next adventure, whatever.

• 30:57Speaker 04

  Ready for the next thing.

• 30:58Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 30:58Speaker 04

  Get ready for whatever's worse out there and then the thought of, oh, I know what could be worse than than Dad, you know.

• 31:06Josh Horowitz?

  So how how fully fleshed out is what to do with Mom? I don't, have we ever seen on screen a female predator?

• 31:11Speaker 04

  Never seen on screen a female predator.

• 31:13Josh Horowitz?

  Crazy.

• 31:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 31:14Josh Horowitz?

  Again, you're finding all the areas like, oh, wait, we've never explored that aspect. So what's, there must be some, you have some ideas to explore that aspect of who.

• 31:24Speaker 04

  Yeah, there's thoughts, there's thoughts. Um and and certainly I'd I'd want to make sure that it wasn't, um there's a lot of like fan art of what uh and certainly the comics have had um. And uh and I'd certainly want to make sure it feels unique and special and like um fit fits in with the culture of the Yasha as we've been realizing it. Um I will say to you um that that was one of the things um in the end, this last line, that I suddenly got um really, really nervous about um because I I I didn't want people to be like, wait, Mom from the.

• 32:08Speaker 04

  Mother from Waylon Utan or like have any confused like I was I got scared like the like it's it'd be fine if you that moment happened in the middle of the movie but it's the like the last thought of the movie. Um, and we constructed this the thing of going to title and then back to that. Um, so that you the last thought is like he's deck of the Alcha and then there's so that there's even though it's splitting hairs, but there's still. Um, and I that's what I emailed Jim Cameron about um, and uh.

• 32:38Josh Horowitz?

  What was the question or or thought?

• 32:40Speaker 04

  He I initially just sent him the sent him the cut um, and he wrote a lovely response back. I've said this. Just, you know, ta- tale, but but but he to say the full thing and, you know, um, but he. He loved he loved prey, um, which is mind blowing, um, absolutely. Like, that's all I, you know, it's like, no one has to like prey, but if he likes it, I'm fine, you know, it's like.

• 33:07Josh Horowitz?

  Million percent.

• 33:08Speaker 04

  Um, and uh. And so when we were we were shooting New Zealand, he had me come down to we were in Auckland, he's obviously he's in Wellington. Um, arranged by the great Steve Asbell, who runs 20th and isn't, you know, is collaborating with both of us. Um, Jim had me visit the set uh of Avatar, such as it is. Um, uh, and. Hang on his edit bay for like hours. It was it was unreal. Um, and annoyingly, I remember so little because obviously the whole time. I'm like, I can't lose that. I can't lose that. I can't lose this happening. And I'm like, not retaining all that I want to retain from it. Um, but.

• 33:54Speaker 04

  Uh, we then were reconvening to to get some dinner. Um, and when I I was when he came in, uh, after being let off. Uh, he sat down. I I told in the edit bay, I told him like everything that I was worried about with the movie. Doing this whole new process. Where we're having someone in suit, but we are doing some visual effects. With the face and this hadn't been done and all that. And he sat down, um, and he said, I was thinking about what you're doing and.

• 34:27Speaker 04

  Think it's gonna work. Um, and that was like, oh, you know, took that blew me back to Auckland. You know, that, that, that encouragement. Um, and it was exactly what I needed to hear. The funny thing is, I sent him the cut, um, uh, a couple of months ago. So it was mostly there, but still not quite all the way there. Um, and he wrote a lovely at length thoughts about the film. Um, and said, I have to be honest, when I first heard about what you were doing, I did not think it was going to work.

• 35:09Speaker 04

  But now that I've seen it, holy crap, you really pulled it off, you know, um, and, uh.

• 35:16Josh Horowitz?

  You can retire on that one.

• 35:17Speaker 04

  I can retire and, and, and I really, I really think that, um, he, he knows what someone in my shoes needs to hear to get over each hurdle at different stages. But so I responded to him because he was so, he was just so like lovely and, and aware where we are in the process. You can't like give notes on, um, the very basis of what you're doing. Um, and I, and I, but I said, the ending with the mother, like, how did that land for you? I, I could also play it this way or that way. And, um, and he wrote a huge, um, response of, of just how delicious it is as a final moment and, and do not back away from it and, and, and stick to it. So.

• 35:57Josh Horowitz?

  This is a good guy to have as a consultant going forward. Keep this James Cameron in your life. Um, so, you know, we've talked about this. You've talked with others, like you've set up all these different threads. Thanks to pray killer of killers, this one, like you can go in a thousand different directions. I know you have, it sounds like one idea. You came up with three ideas. One became killer of killers. One became this. Sounds like there's one that's like really primed. Um, how far along is that? Is that in story, in script yet? Where are we at?

• 36:26Speaker 04

  I would say that's in story. Um, I, uh, uh, it's a story. It's, it's waiting to be.

• 36:33Speaker 04

  Furthered, and we'll see how we do today, but just like you know, like, there's quite a number of things that like we could do, and there's things that I would love to do. Not in

• 36:47Josh Horowitz?

  Of course.

• 36:48Speaker 04

  Land, but

• 36:52Speaker 04

  you know, it's crazy how malleable this franchise has turned out to be, but I do think that was that isn't the case for others, and I think that has something to do with the

• 37:09Speaker 04

  the crazy genre combination that was the original movie. That right from the jump, the thing that we loved about it was that it was so many things in one.

• 37:22Speaker 04

  And it just so happens that this the Predator as a character carries with it so much thematic weight that that some other monsters don't necessarily have until the right filmmaker comes along where they resonate with them in a specific way.

• 37:41Josh Horowitz?

  Well, the cool thing is like you didn't rush to kind of like the obvious. As you said, you've kind of been setting all this up and they've all worked so far. You're three for three in these films. And hopefully if this, you know, this continues.

• 37:54Josh Horowitz?

  And you've talked to Arnold. We know you've been talking to Arnold. You've said this.

• 37:59Josh Horowitz?

  My question is like, I guess, how far along is that permutation of getting Arnold back into the mix? And also like, you know, but in your post credit, in your in your animation sequence there. His character is younger. Are you de-aging Arnold in whatever you might use him for in the future?

• 38:18Speaker 04

  There's so, there's an exciting amount of things that we could do.

• 38:24Speaker 04

  With Arnold, with Danny, with Nadu from, you know, like that, what that, the, you know, that movie was the working title for it or our coding for it was Warehouse. And with that conceit, it really allows for us to tell. Any kind of story we want in animation, in live action, um, how they ended up to be in that warehouse, where they go directly after, where they could be, um, many, many years from then. So, uh, yeah.

• 39:04Josh Horowitz?

  Does Arnold have ideas? Has he been pitching you? Here's what I think.

• 39:07Speaker 04

  He didn't, he didn't have any specific ideas, but, um, he, um, is, was

• 39:17Speaker 04

  very attracted to, um, uh, filmmakers and, and, uh, uh, like, like interested in working. We talked about a lot of things over the course of his career and like, and, and, um, uh, people with vision and, and, um,

• 39:37Speaker 04

  and, and has a real fondness for this movie, um, and, uh, and loves the idea of their, of their being more again in a, in a better way than he felt that things were, were going way back in the eighties, nineties era.

• 39:55Josh Horowitz?

  I'm sure, I'm sure, you know, we grew up around the same times Arnold is so meaningful. And like, when he put himself in the hands of people like McTiernan or Verhoeven or Cameron like that, I mean, yes, like the other stuff was fine, but like, if you use him as the right tool, he's as good as they come.

• 40:12Speaker 04

  Yes. I think he's become quite aware of, of that now.

• 40:15Josh Horowitz?

  Right. Right. It's time like, you know, in this time left, let's work, let's like work with some cool filmmakers. So I hope that, I hope that pans out, man. I mean, you know, obviously, you know, a lot of folks first came aware of you, thanks to Culverfield Lane. Um, and I mean, I would imagine you, you, you've, you've probably taken every meeting, I would imagine, because you work in genre and you, you clearly have the stuff. You, you've done, you must have, you've done the Feige meeting, you've, you've met with James Gunn, you've met with Star Wars. Have you, you've met with all of these people? You have to have, yes?

• 40:48Speaker 04

  Yes, Joshua, Joshua.

• 40:50Josh Horowitz?

  What?

• 40:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Over the years, so many, yeah, absolutely. I like so many filmmakers, um, of my generation younger who do, who have made a movie that strikes a chord, um, have definitely met. Um, I, by the way, I will say.

• 41:11Speaker 04

  I met um with a producer named Jeremy Jeremy Latcham um at Marvel. Uh and and Kevin because of Jeremy uh years ago. Um to meet for Guardians of the Galaxy before James Gunn. Um based off of my short film. Portal and there was like, you know, some YouTube, whatever, like because that they were like, that's that that creative, you know, like, like. Let's find someone interesting and cool. I did not get the job, um obviously, but um and right and rightfully so, but.

• 41:55Speaker 04

  But still so, so awesome. I remember I met them on the day that um they had just. I I I hope I'm remembering this right, but I think they had just shown Avengers to like. People on a spaceship.

• 42:10Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, it sounds.

• 42:11Speaker 04

  It was an estimate like they like they like screened Avengers for for people on the space station. Um and I nerded out with Kevin Feige about Disneyland and um. And I will, I will say, um, yeah, what, because it was, it was, it was, they had a screenplay for it, but what what James Gunn. Brought to that uh was so him and and so um not exactly what that movie would have been had they just. Film this, which they never would have and and you know, would would but but but James really brought. Everything um to that to that movie. Um so.

• 42:56Josh Horowitz?

  It's a long career. There will be other sandboxes you will play with and at some point, we'll just see with at the right time, the right one. That fits because you really, I mean, I was texting honestly after I saw this with some folks had seen him like. Give Dan whatever he like, you, you can, you could do a kick ass. Star Wars, if George Miller wants to give me, I I trust you, you could do, you could work at all these uh genres because you. You know, story, you know, sci fi, you know. I don't know. You you you don't you you you're you're you're charting your own path, but you you you know the the bones of what makes these things work now.

• 43:33Speaker 04

  But I I appreciate you saying, but but but also I always have reverberating in me that like famed conversation on the beach in Hawaii between Spielberg and Lucas, where Spielberg was lamenting that they weren't letting him do James Bond. And Lucas was like, don't worry about like, I got something else for you, Indiana Jones, you know, like, make your own thing. Um, and so even though Predator is not my original thought, um, but what I'm doing with it, um, I get to really express myself as I as I want to be. Um, and uh,

• 44:14Speaker 04

  and that may not be the case when I'm playing with other other folks's action figures, you know.

• 44:19Josh Horowitz?

  So on on the second go around, I've only seen the film once. What should I and other folks look out for in watching Predator: Badlands? Easter eggs, moments, callbacks, things you're proud of?

• 44:30Speaker 04

  Um, there, I will say, okay, I'll say a few things for you. Um, there's a, there's Nada is in the movie. Um, uh, the backbiter, the creature from

• 44:47Speaker 04

  the end of Killer Killers.

• 44:48Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:49Speaker 04

  Is right after you see Nada in the movie.

• 44:53Speaker 04

  Um, there is an audible oh, uh, illusion that date dates back to the original Alien, um, in, uh, in this in this latter half of the of the film. Um,

• 45:10Speaker 04

  there's a a line, uh, the the key line, one of the key lines of the movie is syncs up with a a key line from um, from Prey. Um.

• 45:23Speaker 04

  There was something else that I realized. Not many people are picking up on this.

• 45:29Speaker 04

  Then I'm drawing a blank.

• 45:31Josh Horowitz?

  You're good, you're good.

• 45:32Speaker 04

  Okay, great.

• 45:33Josh Horowitz?

  No, don't worry about it, don't worry. We will talk again, it will come to you. So, so, so go, so it's opening day. Are you gonna sneak into a theater? Is there a tradition for you when, when movies of yours have come out?

• 45:45Speaker 04

  Um, it's not a tradition. I'm gonna be flying home.

• 45:48Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, Pray didn't get, get the shot, so you, you get to experience this in the theater, thank goodness.

• 45:52Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's true. That's true. Um. The, uh, although, by the way, I will say when Cloverfield Lane came out. Um, there was a screening in New York, it premiered in New York, but there was a screening right before the premiere. Um, that, that Tamar had me come in intro, um, and I passed you, uh, and I. Josh Howard is here. Um, so, uh, the, uh, you know, I, I might, um, I might lurk. Outside to hear chatter outside. I will, I will, okay, I, I, I've been wondering if I should ever say this out loud, but.

• 46:36Speaker 04

  The first test screening. Um. I feel like it's safe to say because now like the reviews for the movie are good. So it's like, we, you know, we did, we did all right. Um, but the first test screening. Um, I had to like run, I had to go to the bathroom right away.

• 46:55Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, no.

• 46:56Speaker 04

  Um, and I was in the bathroom.

• 46:58Josh Horowitz?

  No.

• 46:59Speaker 04

  And, and, and two guys walk in and they were like, what the fuck was that, that piece? What are they, you know? And I was like, I can't believe this is the fir-, and, and, and, but people like were reacting to it and laughing and then I'm like, I'm like, I think. I was like, all right, I think this is right. I was all right. I feel, I feel safe now. And I go to the bathroom and like the very first words I hear, um, it was.

• 47:23Josh Horowitz?

  Was it James Cameron and Ridley Scott talking to each other?

• 47:26Speaker 04

  Yeah, exactly. What the fuck is this kid doing with our shit?

• 47:31Josh Horowitz?

  He ruined our toys.

• 47:32Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 47:35Speaker 04

  Um, so that really shattered me. And, um, and ironically, the next time we previewed, I had, I had to go to the bathroom again, but you know, whatever. Um, I'm of age and, uh, and I walked out and everyone was like, was looking at me like, "Did you hear anything?" And I was like, "We're, we're good." Um, so, uh,

• 47:56Josh Horowitz?

  Amazing.

• 47:57Speaker 04

  Right now, but.

• 47:58Josh Horowitz?

  Those were the two anomalies. I'm sorry you had to go through that, uh, but, uh, the good news is people are loving it. Uh, the movie kicks ass, honestly. Um, and, and thank you, man. Uh, the, the gushing was, was too much, but I appreciate you. Everything you said is very sweet. And right back at you, as you know, I'm, I'm such a fan of everything you've done. And just as a fan of Predator, of Alien, of just great adventure films, um, this one checked all the boxes for me. I'm excited to see it again. Happy opening day. Dan Trachtenberg finally on Happy Sad Confused. And, and the first, you're gonna be back. Don't worry. Now you're a regular.

• 48:35Speaker 04

  Awesome. Thanks, man. I really appreciate it. Honestly. Thank you.

• 48:38Josh Horowitz?

  Buddy.

• 48:40Speaker 02

  And so ends another edition of Happy Sad Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

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