Chad Carson: How to Retire with the Fewest Rentals Possible in 2026

You do not need a huge rental property portfolio to retire early. Today, Chad Carson (Coach Carson) will prove it, explaining how to retire with the fewest rentals possible. Trust him, because he’s already done it with fewer rentals than you’d think. Chad ditched the “buy 100 doors” mentality in exchange for fewer rentals, fewer headaches, and way more cash flow. Now, in his 40s and years into his lifestyle of two-hour workweeks, Chad has more than enough passive income to provide for his family, go on long (often up to a year at a time) international trips with his wife and children, and grow the wealth that will sustain him through traditional retirement age. Thousands have copied his “small and mighty” approach, as Chad’s name has become synonymous with “make more doing less.” Today, Chad is showing you how to do it in 2026, even if you only have five hours a week to dedicate to investing, even with today’s home prices and mortgage rates, and even if you’re starting with zero experience. Plus, the best properties for beginners and experienced investors, the exact deals he’s purchasing in 2026, and why now may be the best buying opportunity in years. In This Episode We Cover: How to retire early with the fewest rentals possible in 2026 The best real estate investing strategy for a beginner with limited free time Why Chad believes there is more “opportunity” for investing in 2026 than in previous years Put more money down? Plus, why Chad strongly believes paid off properties beat big portfolios Why “ugly” rental properties will get you to financial independence even faster How to “harvest” your cash flow once you’ve built a big enough portfolio And So Much More! Check out more resources from this show on ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠BiggerPockets.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ and ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://www.biggerpockets.com/blog/real-estate-1225 Interested in learning more about today’s sponsors or becoming a BiggerPockets partner yourself? Email ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠[email protected]⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dave Meyer?

  You do not need a big, expensive, or time-consuming real estate portfolio to reach financial freedom. It is completely possible to build wealth and even replace your entire income with real estate investing in a way that fits into your lifestyle. Yes, you can do this even in the 2026 housing market. Today, we're sharing the mindset and investing principles you need to make real estate investing work for you. Small and mighty real estate investors, keep listening.

• 0:35Dave Meyer?

  Hey, everyone. I'm Dave Meyer, Head of Real Estate Investing here at BiggerPockets, and I'm a rental property investor, buying rentals for more than 15 years now. Today on the show, we have one of our all-time most popular guests, someone I am happy to call a friend, Chad Carson. You know Chad from his book, The Small and Mighty Real Estate Investor, or his YouTube channel, Coach Chad Carson. And Chad's big-picture real estate investing philosophy has stayed consistent for as long as I have known him. He's all about setting realistic goals and growing a portfolio that minimizes your stress levels and enables the life you want. On this episode, we're going to dive into the exact types of deals Chad recommends seeking out in 2026,

• 1:19Dave Meyer?

  even for investors who want to spend not that much time on their portfolio, maybe five hours per week or less on their real estate investing. We'll talk about the single real estate skill with the highest potential dollar return you can learn and practice in 2026, and we'll review a couple of the levers you can pull to create more good deals, even if the numbers that you find on the MLS don't pencil out right away. Let's bring on Chad. Chad, welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. Thanks for being here.

• 1:49Speaker 01

  Thank you, Dave. Great to be here.

• 1:50Dave Meyer?

  I love having you on. This is always a fun show. I always like to hear from other investors I respect, like you, Chad. What do you think the state of real estate investing is here in the beginning of 2026?

• 2:02Speaker 01

  As a real estate investor who's been in this for 22 years, I really resonate with the idea that this is a good buying opportunity compared to the last five years. I feel more optimism in my own local market in the number of motivated sellers who are willing to play ball. I feel optimistic in that people I'm working with and I know are buying properties consistently at below-market prices and locking in long-term interest rates. So if you just look at it from a fundamental standpoint... For real estate investors in particular, yes, there's a lot of choppiness. Yes, there's a lot of changes, but this is a, this is a prime time. That's what I'm seeing.

• 2:36Dave Meyer?

  I love it. Well, I, I completely agree. I think, you know, I've shared some of my thoughts on the, on the show over the last couple of weeks, but it just feels like we're getting back to more of a normal environment where the last couple of years, it's like either buyers had all the power or sellers had all the power and it felt really difficult. And we were just like operating in the extremes of the housing market. And although people have gotten used to that and this new sort of normal era of the housing market might feel strange to people. I think for those of us who have done this for a while, I haven't done as long as you, Chad, but I've been doing it for 15, 16 years now. You know, this feels good to me, an era where you can have reasonable conversations, reasonable

• 3:21Dave Meyer?

  negotiations with sellers and agree on a price that is mutually beneficial. Like that's what this is all about. And I am feeling good about this. You said, you know, you're getting more excited about acquisitions. What are some of the trends that you're seeing that are making you feel that way?

• 3:37Speaker 01

  Well, one of them is the one that you pointed out was de-listings.

• 3:40Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 3:41Speaker 01

  You know, the stat better than I do, but there, there's like a record number, maybe the most you've seen in the last eight to 10 years. Is that right?

• 3:46Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, yeah. I think, you know, the study was from Redfin and they haven't been around that long. So they have like 10 years of data, but in all of their data, it's the, it's the most de-listings we've seen since 2017.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  Right. So the opportunity I see there, like I'm always thinking acquisitions, how can you buy new properties? And those are people who listed the property. They didn't get the price they wanted. And there's a lot of them who are saying, I'm just going to take it off the market now. But the, the question I think about is like, well, what, what are they going to do now? And some, for some of them, they're like in good shape. They're just going to stay in the house and not move. Some of them are just going to rent the property out and they're going to turn that rental and that 5% interest rate into a long-term rental. And that's good for them too. But there's some people there who have life changes where like they moved across the country or they don't want to be a landlord or to some, they need some cash and they're willing to sell that property at a discount and give you a good deal on a, on a site. It might not be a fixer upper property. It might be like a Solid, nice house and a good neighborhood that fits my buy box.

• 4:42Speaker 01

  I think that's a huge opportunity.

• 4:44Dave Meyer?

  Absolutely.

• 4:44Speaker 01

  I used to do that all the time. I used to market to expired listings. I would have a real estate agent who would give me a list of expired listings. I would mail to all those listings and if I ever bought one of those, I would give them a finder's fee just for sending me the list. It was a nice little relationship and it was just a source of lead flow. And I think that would work really well this year.

• 5:01Dave Meyer?

  Oh yeah, I think there's going to be so many of those too. And it's not even if they have to delist, there's just stale properties all over the place. Similar kind of thing where something that's stale, I think Redfin defines that as like a hundred days on market or more as stale. But there's way more of those and those people are going to be willing to deal. I, I, I told the story on your podcast, Chad, but I flipped a house. I put it on the market and it sat for a while. And I wound up selling it for what I think is less than the actual value that what comps would support just because I wanted to get out of the deal and it still turned out to be a solid investment for me. So I was like happy doing that, but just goes to show like even people who know what they're doing, even savvy sellers are going to be willing to move

• 5:47Dave Meyer?

  deals right now, just because of cash flow management or wanting to reposition that money into something they want to acquire themselves. And I never delisted that property, but you know, after 90 days, you kind of get to that point where you're like, I'll, you know, I'm willing to chat. I'm willing to negotiate and sit down and I'm certainly not the only one who's thinking that way.

• 6:07Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think the key is the psychology of you as a buyer and investor buyer, you can't be embarrassed making a lower offers. It's just, it's just a number. I mean, it's just, if they reject you and they say, no, cool. Like every once in a while, Realtors is going to be mad and say, that's 20% below the list price. You're crazy. But you know what? I've had several situations in the past where I made an offer where the real estate agent said, that's crazy. They'll never accept it. And the seller accepted it or they at least, or they at least counter offered it. But the real, the real estate agent doesn't always know what that seller is going to do. Sometimes the seller doesn't even know until they have an offer. And if you make a, like when I'm talking about the strong offer, this is for me, it would be like, hey, it's, it's a Monday. I will close as soon as you give me a clear title. I'll have Cash at the attorney's office, it could be this Friday, it could be next Friday, you tell me.

• 6:53Speaker 01

  And so that person who's receiving that offer has to decide, all right, this offer is, you know, 20% below the $300,000 I want to get. That was a big haircut and I was kind of in my mind thinking I was going to have to drop my price anyway. And I have cash sitting there two weeks from now that I could take and go do something else with. And whether that's a person who's motivated to move across the country or another investor who's just like, look, I have an opportunity over here. I could buy another deal. You just have to try it. And I think that voice in our head that says, oh, don't make that offer. They'll, I would never do that. But you're not them. Like you're the seller has might have a different situation. That's, I think that's the key is you've got to get used to making a little bit embarrassing offers.

• 7:27Dave Meyer?

  I feel like just the quality of deals I'm seeing already are better than they've been since probably 2022, maybe even earlier than that, like.

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Maybe 2020.

• 7:39Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, maybe 2020. Yeah.

• 7:41Speaker 01

  2020 was interesting because you had low interest rates. I mean, it was just a weird environment, but people are bidding them up. To me, this is, this is going back to the old school real estate investing that when I started in 2003, four and five, it was a little bit more, you know, like you had to compete hard to get deals or you had to make offers and you had to negotiate hard. But even if you study the history of real estate investing, which I like to do, I like to talk to like the, you know, person who's been in the business 40, 50 years and say, when you get that perspective from them, you know, there's been all sorts of weird choppy markets for the last 50 years. And the common theme as a real estate investor is you have to go create deals. The time where you had like three or 4% interest rates and you could pay retail price and put 20% down and have a cash flow. Like that's, that's never been like that, except for a few years in the last, last 10 years, you know?

• 8:25Speaker 01

  So I think that's the mindset of like, okay, as a real estate investor, we have to go create the deal. We have to negotiate. We have to make offers. My kind of approach to investing is I either have to buy it low on the price or I have to borrow low with the terms. Meaning either way, I'm going to buy a good, a good location, a good property that I like, but it's either prices low and/or I get really good terms from the seller, like seller financing, creative terms. And so that if I have a really good property that's at a great location and I can negotiate a three or 4% interest rate from the seller. And maybe they're like a landlord who's, who's just kind of ready to move. On or something like I've bought some properties like that. Those are my long term keeper properties. I'm making cash flow today and I'm willing to pay 95, 100% of the price of the property.

• 9:08Speaker 01

  Because of the long run, that price is going to be much higher and the rents are going to go up. So it's more about being a deal maker than it is just, you know, waiting on the market to kind of tell you that what to do.

• 9:19Dave Meyer?

  I love the terminology specifically that you're using. I think the idea of deal finding, which is often the term that is used in our industry. It's such a misnomer. You don't just go out and find them. It's not like you're, you know, hunting on eBay. And all of a sudden you just like go and find a deal. Like Chad said, you have to make it. You have to design it. You have to build a deal that works for you. And there are multiple levers that you can pull to design the deal that works for you. Chad just named several of them, right? You know, he talked about the purchase price. He talked about the interest rate that you pay. You can design a deal that has development upside.

• 10:01Speaker 01

  You could have asked the seller to stay in the deal with you and partner with you on a deal. Like I'm doing that on it's a potential development deal and it's the seller. You know, they could just take a price and take their money and run, or they could be in the deal with us. And we can have a whole lot of upside and they could get a piece of the upside. Like the thing is, but that takes an attitude of being willing to sit down with a person. And this is one of my favorite negotiation strategies is just take it slowly. Like if you can talk to the seller one on one, it's kind of hard through real estate agents. But if the real estate agent is willing to let you, let's just have a conversation. I'm, I'm, I call my, I wrote about this in the small mighty investor book on my chapter on negotiation. How we're basically solving a puzzle and like a negotiation is just taking the puzzle pieces, putting them on the table. And when you ask questions and you listen to the seller, you're basically turning puzzle pieces over.

• 10:46Speaker 01

  So that you can then put things together. And I'll tell a seller is like, I don't know that I can solve this puzzle. Like maybe I'm not the right fit for you, but if you're willing to talk to me for 30 minutes or an hour, like I bet I could think about some things and give you some ideas and give you some offers. And then if they're good for you, awesome. If they're not like no harm, like we'll just keep moving. And that, that approach though, opens up so many different ideas and the job for us as a real estate. Best of those. We have, this is where BiggerPockets comes in and our podcast is you've got to increase your knowledge of all these strategies and these toolboxes and you've got to increase your knowledge of how taxes work and the tax implications for your seller. Like you've got to be knowledgeable yourself. That's what, that's the value you're bringing to the negotiation is the guide helping the seller get from point A to point B and it being a win-win for them too.

• 11:31Speaker 01

  Like that, that takes work and that's not an easy thing to do.

• 11:34Dave Meyer?

  I really like what you just said about being win-win because that is really the key to this negotiation, right? Is when you say turning over puzzle pieces, right? You're just discovering what the seller values.

• 11:45Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 11:45Dave Meyer?

  Right? You get to talk to them and figure out, oh, maybe price point is super valuable to them. That's the most important thing. So now I'm going to work with them on maybe other terms that we can negotiate that makes this mutually beneficial. Maybe they don't care about the price and what they really want is to get out quickly. Or maybe they want a lease back because they don't want to move for six months. You know, like there's all these things that are not just the top line number. And I really appreciate what you said Chad about just trying to learn and hear people out to understand what they're looking for. And if you have the appropriate tools, as Chad said, you can offer solutions to them. Maybe they take it, maybe they don't. But if you, you know, that as an investor, that is such a valuable skill to have. And I think it's

• 12:30Dave Meyer?

  one that if you want to pick a skill to learn and work on this coming year, that's a really good one because that's going to be super valuable, I think, for years to come in the real estate market.

• 12:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the highest paid skill, I think, in real estate investing. If you can negotiate a deal that gets you an extra 10,000 bucks or an extra lower interest rate, two, two points lower interest rate over the next 20 years. I mean, your hour per dollar on that, that skill is just off the charts compared to anything else you could do.

• 12:55Dave Meyer?

  I love it. So that's a great thing for everyone to take away here because we're still at the beginning of the year. It's still sort of resolution season. So if there is a skill that you want to learn this year, that's a good one. I really like that. Learn how to negotiate. There's going to be way more motivated sellers. You're going to have the opportunity to just get more practice this year. You couldn't even practice this two or three years ago. No one would even talk to you. It's like, how much are you offering me? Can you close tomorrow? Are you going to waive every single contingency possible? That's what it was like. This is a new opportunity for you to learn a highly valuable skill that will benefit for you for your entire investing career. So this is a really good one for everyone to think about. We got to take a quick break, but we'll have more with Chad Carson when we come back. Stick with us.

• 13:36Dave Meyer?

  As a real estate investor, the last thing I want to do or have time for is play accountant, banker, and debt collector all at once. But that's what I was doing every weekend, flipping between a bunch of apps, bank statements, and receipts, trying to sort it all out by property and figure out who's late on rent. Then I found Baseline, and it takes all of that off my plate. It's BiggerPockets' official banking platform that automatically sorts my transactions, matches receipts, and collects rents for every property. My tax prep is done, and my weekends are mine again. Plus, I'm saving a ton of money on banking fees and apps that I don't even need anymore. Get $100 bonus when you sign up today at baseline.com/bp.

• 14:20Dave Meyer?

  BiggerPockets' Pro members also get a free upgrade to Baseline Smart, which is awesome because it's packed with advanced automations and features to save you even more time. So go to baseline.com/bp. Some listeners may wonder why their insurance quote only took 30 seconds. Some listeners may wonder why their insurance quote took 30 seconds. A better question is, how long will that policy actually hold up when you need it? At Enreg, the goal isn't just getting coverage in place, it's making sure your investment property is properly protected when a real claim happens. That's why they take time to evaluate each property's unique

• 15:03Dave Meyer?

  risks and build coverage design for the realities investors face. Because anyone can sell a policy, Enreg focuses on standing behind it. Visit nreg.com/bpllc to learn more. Most deals don't fall apart because of the numbers. They fall apart because of the financing. You find a property that cash flows, the deal makes sense. But then, the lender looks at your personal income, your tax returns, your debt-to-income ratio, and suddenly, the deal doesn't qualify. That's the disconnect. Because as investors, we're not buying based on our W2, we're buying based on the asset. That's why Host Financial offers DSCR loans.

• 15:46Dave Meyer?

  Loans designed for real estate investors where qualification is based primarily on the property's income, not your personal finances. So no W2s, no tax returns, and no DTI requirements. And with loan to value options up to 80 or even 85% on eligible deals, you can keep more capital available as you grow. If you're buying rentals, refinancing, or scaling your portfolio, go to hostfinancial.com. That's H-O-S-T financial.com and see what you qualify for.

• 16:17Henry Washington?

  Here's a strategy that most W2 employees have never heard of. Normally, if you want to write off a rental property against your regular income, you need real estate professional status. That means tracking hundreds of hours a year. Rent to Retirement just launched a program that skips all of that. It's called the STR loophole tenant placement program. Here's how it works. You buy one of Rent to Retirement's Class A new construction investment properties, you set up an Airbnb listing and self-manage it for the remainder of the year. Rent to Retirement then rents the home as a short-term rental to establish it as an STR for the year, no furnishing required, making this the easy button to save five or six figures in taxes this year. And because

• 17:00Henry Washington?

  you're the sole manager, there's no hourly minimum to meet. That lets you use a cost segregation study to accelerate the depreciation and potentially write off over $100,000 against your income, even on your first rental. Add in cash back up to 13% of the home price, which exceeds $60,000 on some properties. With this massive cash back incentives, investors are seeing total returns up to 126%. New construction, A-class properties, and inventory is limited. Learn more at biggerpockets.com/retirement or text REI to 33777. Again, text REI to 33777.

• 17:41Speaker 03

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• 18:15Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. I'm here with Coach Chad Carson. Chad and I have been talking just a little bit about what we're seeing in the market here in 2026. But Chad, I want to talk to you a little bit more about your, your big picture philosophy about small and mighty investing. Maybe you could just fill our audience in sort of the high level points there.

• 18:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, I started the small and mighty idea because the sort of narrative that at least I heard in the real estate business when I first started was to be successful, you have to have the most units. You have to get there the fastest and you know, you hear different names in the industry like 10x and go big and all that kind of stuff. I like to like kind of flip that on its head and I tried the go big thing and it didn't really work for me. And I found that a lot of real estate investors want to have this more deliberate business where they have lifestyle and maybe they're working two hours per week and the rentals are paying for their, their lifestyle and they can travel and like my, my wife and I lived with our kids in Ecuador one time in Spain and we've gone on all sorts of amazing trips and had flexibility. Like to me, it's about being a time billionaire and having the most time and not

• 19:20Speaker 01

  having the most properties. And so that's the small mighty philosophy is how can you have the least number of properties possible? That still might be a good number of properties, but the least number of properties possible that still accomplishes your financial goals instead of being the biggest. And that, that requires a more elegant, simple solution. And for some people, that might mean like five properties or two properties. Like that's, that's okay. Like that, that's, that could be successful. And so it's, it's that idea to help validate people who find that they have enough and that's, that's totally fine.

• 19:49Dave Meyer?

  I love this philosophy so much. If it was up to my wife, I would own one property. She's just like, just buy one. I'm like, it doesn't, I can't.

• 19:56Speaker 01

  I need a little, a little bit more.

• 19:58Dave Meyer?

  I know, I need more. But I think this, this is my philosophy as well. I hate the idea of door count. I think it's the most misleading stat that people just do for ego. Honestly, they just want to say how many units they own. It's not hard to acquire units if you don't have standards. You can buy a lot of bad stuff. But I'm, you know, I'm bringing this up sort of in the context of the state of real estate investing, because maybe you feel differently, but I kind of feel like the winds have shifted. And this idea that you've always been consistent about, about being small and mighty, being consistent, being patient, is becoming the more mainstream again, where at least to me, it felt like for a couple of years there,

• 20:42Dave Meyer?

  everyone, you know, is about doing multifamily and going big, or short-term rentals or midterm rentals, none of which I have a problem with. I'm just saying like, it was kind of like, what's the flavor of the month? Like, let's chase the biggest return. And I feel like maybe the thing that's happened because the market's been so weird for the last few years, is people are kind of like, eh, maybe just go back to the fundamentals. Just go back to the boring stuff, which to me feels validating, but I'm curious how you feel about that.

• 21:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, a football metaphor comes to mind for me. I used to play football and, you know, in like college football or the NFL, you'll see these like kind of fancy offenses come and go here and there. Like, oh, you know, the run and shoot. I grew up as an Atlanta Falcons fan and we had this like run and shoot offense. And, you know, we could, you make a bunch of passing yards, but you never won any games. I'm like, all right, like, what's the, what's the deal with this? And I think sometimes real estate strategies are like that. There's nothing wrong with the strategy itself, but I think it sort of ignores, number one, is use offense and defense metaphor in sports. Like, you can play offense, but you also have to play defense. And like real estate investing, you can go acquire a bunch of properties, but you also have to like keep those properties. Like, you actually have to like withstand the ups and downs of the market. And, and so I think small and mighty kind of acknowledges that this is a long game.

• 21:54Speaker 01

  You have to be conservative while also moving forward and growing. So it's not about not growing. It's just about, I want to be here 20 years from now, 30 years from now, and I want to have wealth and cash flow over the long run forever, not just this fly-by-night, you know, get really big really fast and then crash and burn kind of thing. And that's the problem with some of the go-big strategies is you, you hear the success stories. Like, those are great, those are amazing, but you don't see all the fallout and the people who like crashed and burned, because this is a much more risky strategy. So I think you're right. I think it has, I've noticed a lot more people. Talking about it and I hope that it's just validating that you know what there's just more people who are thinking long term. They're thinking about the downside and saying, I want to, I want to have a strategy that grows and that gets me to my goals, but also it's not going to, I'm not going to lose.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Everything and have to like start back over like I want to, I want to make this thing work and sometimes just the simplest solution is the, the right solution for that.

• 22:47Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, I, I agree with you. It's, it's sometimes sounds boring, but it's not really boring. I, I, you know, I think people are like, oh, I've done. Rental properties, what should I pivot to? I'm like, I'm just going to keep buying rental properties. Like, you know what's not boring is just having very stable predictable income every month. Like, that's just great. It's, I can tell you from experience, having done this 15 years now, like it goes by quickly. It's not like you're going to be grinding away for your whole career. Like we're saying, slow and steady, but 10 years, 15 years, you're going to be in a fantastic financial position. And I also think people often overlook sort of the incremental value of real estate. People always say like, oh, it took me 15 years to get to financial freedom.

• 23:29Dave Meyer?

  Seems like a long time. That's fine. But I bet you in your second year, you were a little bit better off than you were in year zero. And then in year four, you were better off and then six and then eight and 10. And that incremental benefit matters still. Like I don't see it as this binary where it's like, I was not financially free and now I am financially free. It's like every. Step, every property you acquire is an incremental improvement and that's awesome. And you should be excited about that.

• 23:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, a lot of it happens below the surface. Some of it is just your own knowledge compounding. I know for me, like the first five years, I was kind of spinning my wheels, but I was, I was learning and I was growing. I was building a team. Another metaphor is kind of like farming. Like it's not sexy to watch an orange tree grow for the first five, six years.

• 24:09Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 24:09Speaker 01

  But you, you gotta plant the seed, you gotta water it, you gotta do all this stuff and you can't, you can't speed up nature. Like the, the natural process happens. And I think sometimes we just want to force it a little bit faster.

• 24:19Dave Meyer?

  Yeah.

• 24:19Speaker 01

  And, and so rental properties are like a seed. You plant them, you grow them. There are ways to go faster, but I think let's separate investing from entrepreneurship and starting a business. Like, so you can start a business, a side hustle. You know, I used to flip houses a lot. That's how I kind of generated extra cash flow, but many people listening to this. They have a full-time job that's 50, 60 hours a week. Like, they're doing real estate in the side for five hours a week. You need to keep it boring. Like, don't, don't try to get your excitement from real estate. Go, go learn to fly an airplane, or go on a vacation or something. If you want excitement, like, don't do that in your real estate. Like, real estate does not need to be exciting. It needs to be, it needs to be like boring, boring, boring stuff.

• 24:53Dave Meyer?

  I love that. Yeah, yeah. Get your thrill somewhere else. There's no need for adrenaline in real estate investing. So for those of our listeners who subscribe to this belief, or who are at least intrigued by this idea of small, mighty, what are the kind of deals you recommend people look for in 2026?

• 25:10Speaker 01

  I would separate this into a couple categories. And this has been a kind of something I've realized lately, is that people who have five to 10 hours per week, I would put in like one category. So if you have, if you, if you can at least spend like 20 minutes a day during your lunch break, and maybe a couple hours on the weekend, I would put you in like the five-hour investor category. And I think people like that should avoid fixer-uppers and major kind of like projects. They should just look for the boring real estate that's a little bit, a little bit more turnkey. That doesn't mean you have to buy it from a turnkey provider. That just means something that needs maybe light cosmetic work. Maybe you get a 10% discount, maybe you pay full price for it. The, the strategy there is to, to buy a really solid property in a solid location that has, has growth potential to it. And then you put as

• 25:51Speaker 01

  much money down as you need to, to get a property that cash flows at the, at today's interest rates. Over the last couple of years, that's met like 30, 40% down for some properties. And, and so like, I think that's one category of investor. What you're looking for is good properties and good locations that you can buy and hold for a long time. And that's just gonna be super, it's just gonna be a super boring structure there. There's nothing like fancy about that. If you have more than five to 10 hours per week, you know, if you have a, you know, a partner or a spouse who has extra time on the side, or, or if you have, you know, a job that allows you two or three days a week to kind of do this extra, I think you can get more into what we were talking about earlier. Maybe do some direct mail, maybe do some off-market strategies like the Henry Washington and other people talk about a lot. Like, actually go and try to do that negotiation with people who might be

• 26:35Speaker 01

  a little bit more motivated. Those are gonna be your best deals, but it, it just, it requires a little bit more time and effort. And, and so I think those are, those are the two kind of paths I think about for, for different people in 2026.

• 26:48Dave Meyer?

  All right. Well, I love this. I really agree with the way that you broke it down. Like, I love Henry. The way he approaches real estate is totally different than I do because I'm I'm group one. You know, I I work full time at BiggerPockets. I have stuff to do. I've flipped houses and I've done BRRRRs, but that's because I have partners who who have the time and who I essentially pay to do that, similar to what you were talking about earlier, Chad. Like, I I would be generous giving myself a B minus on renovations.

• 27:17Dave Meyer?

  You're probably better than I am.

• 27:18Speaker 01

  But you're an A plus on spreadsheets, though, and data.

• 27:20Dave Meyer?

  Exactly.

• 27:21Speaker 01

  I'll give you that.

• 27:22Dave Meyer?

  So I do what I'm good at, like analyzing deals, analyzing neighborhoods, underwriting deals. Like, that's what I'm good at. And that's how I spend my five hours a week, you know, on on real estate. So I think about that. But I want to just dig into each group a little bit. So I agree with the turnkey thing. Like, if the biggest way to set yourself up to fail, if you're in that group one, is to take on more than you can chew. It's going to be stressful. And even if you wind up pulling it off, you're going to hate it and you're not going to scale your portfolio because you're just going to be miserable the whole time. So I buy into that, buying something relatively turnkey. I've I've done this over the last couple of years. But tell me more about putting more down, because I think that that's a hard thing for people to wrap their head around. One, if you're capital constrained, you might not be

• 28:05Dave Meyer?

  able to do that. But two, it sort of goes against this idea of trying to scale and get to as many properties as possible. So why do you make that recommendation? And what are some of the trade offs you have to consider?

• 28:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think the reason people don't like putting more down, if I had to guess, is that their return on investment is going to be lower. They're going to have a low, they're going to look at their cash on cash return, and it's going to go like one or 2%. Or they're going to say, I'm going to be out of the game for two years now until I save up another down payment. Those are probably the reasons they say that. And what I would say is, like, that's true. But the the biggest risk I've seen in real estate investing, the only way I've seen anybody go out of business is that their mortgage, their their negative cash flow, they got a bad mortgage and their mortgage led to them going out of business. Yep. And so to me, like, if you're gonna get in this business, the number one thing you want to take care of is staying in the business as long as you can. And so I think when you get into a deal, you don't ever want an alligator. You don't want negative cash flow.

• 29:02Speaker 01

  So priority number one is buy a deal that cash flows today. And with interest rates a little bit higher, you there's no secret, like, the only way to get your cash flow higher on a property that has a certain rent to price ratio is you have to borrow less. That means you either put more down or you buy at a lower price. There's no magic there, like, you could do both. And so I do think this is why we talk about you, if you have cash now to go buy a property, even if you're the five hour investor, negotiate hard, like, try to get a 10% 15% discount on a nice property, like, you could do that, like, that's very doable in today's market. If you you have to make a lot of offers, not everybody's gonna do it. So let's say you buy buy a $300,000 property for $270,000 bucks and it rents for $2,200 or something.

• 29:43Speaker 01

  So you buy it for 270, but you might have to put 70 to $100,000 down in order to get a 6% mortgage that actually cash flows with a $2,200 payment. And so the the question is, is that a good deal? And I would make the argument that you have to look at all the different metrics that make a good good deal a good deal. If you if the property cash flows today and you have a really low cash on cash return, you're also getting principal pay down. And hopefully you also bought it in a location that has a, even if it's flat for the next two or three years, the reason you're buying that location is there's a limited supply, there's population growth, all those things that are like the most important parts of buying a good location. Over the long run, you're buying a property that hopefully is gonna grow at least at the rate of inflation. And so you gotta you gotta run your numbers, like, if if it doesn't work, putting $100,000 down

• 30:28Speaker 01

  and you're you're getting an abysmal return on that money over the next 10 years, then don't buy the property, buy another one. But don't just say I have to put less money down to make a good deal, like, putting a lot of money down is a safer way to invest if if you're wanting to survive and stay in the business.

• 30:42Dave Meyer?

  Absolutely. And I think it gives you the optionality to invest in areas that may not be cash flowing at 20%, which are often the best areas. I, I think this is a common mistake that people make is they'll invest in a class C, class D neighborhood, or a class C or class D property, because that's what they can afford and that's what will cash flow at 20 or 25% down. But you're missing out on some of the best neighborhoods.

• 31:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:07Dave Meyer?

  I think this makes so much sense. If I look at my own investing career, I don't think I've ever regretted buying a good asset in a good location, ever. Even if I had to put 50% down, 70% down to make it work, I've never regretted it. And honestly, the few deals I've regretted, I don't have too many, but the ones that I feel just like meh about, like not super excited about, were like ones that kind of, you know, cash flowed at 20%, but weren't in the best neighborhood, or didn't have that much upside potential, and just were deals that I didn't want to own long-term. I, I have completely shifted my focus to, I don't buy a deal that I don't want to own for 10 years anymore. I think the, the, hey, I'll own this for a couple

• 31:52Dave Meyer?

  of years, it'll do something for me, because it works at 20%. Like, that's just not worth your time. I would rather, you know, take the long view on every single deal I, I personally buy.

• 32:02Speaker 01

  Yeah. And I think it also goes back to like, what kind of investor are you? Like, know, know who you are. And if you're the five hour investor who has, you already have a full-time job, you've already got a job, don't, don't, you don't need a second job, you need an investment. And so that's why like, a little bit higher quality, maybe a little bit, there could be a little bit lower cap rates because of that, that's your style. I mean, I, when I first started though, I was buying the cash flow properties and I don't regret doing those because I think it taught me a lot. I had to work harder to get that cash flow, but it, but I had, I had lower down payments, lower prices. So I think there's a time and place for that. So like, if people are listening to this, just know, know what role you're in and know what you lean towards. But I just think so many people avoid the higher down payment, the lower cash flow properties, because they think, oh, that's just not a good deal. But that's, they're intelligent investors. They've, you

• 32:46Speaker 01

  know, other people, myself, who are buying properties that maybe other people kind of turn their nose up at, but over the long run, could still be a good investment.

• 32:53Dave Meyer?

  Great advice. So that's category one of investors, the people who are working full-time, maybe have up to five hours a week. But there's this whole other category of people who want to invest more time into their investing career. We're going to get into that, but we got to take one more quick break. We'll be right back. For my wife's birthday, I wanted to make her a new website for her landscape design business. So I researched a lot of different options. I tried out a couple, but honestly, it was really overwhelming. It was pretty time consuming and still, the site wasn't coming out the way I wanted it to. Then I tried Hostinger and everything was super simple. I asked Hostinger's AI to build a clean site for her business and

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• 34:14Dave Meyer?

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• 37:20Dave Meyer?

  Welcome back to the BiggerPockets Podcast. I'm here with Chad Carson talking about what we're thinking for 2026. Chad, you talked about this first bucket of investors, people who don't have too much time for the break. Second bucket of investors, you know, what are the kind of deals, what kind of cash flows, what kind of numbers do you think they should be looking for here in 2026?

• 37:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, when you have more time, then you can be a little bit more ambitious with the types of deals you get. And so this is like, I mean, the classic deals people have heard about, like the BRRRR strategy, which more broadly means going after properties that need work. They have some kind of problem. I had a mentor early in my career, he used to say, you know, Southern folksy kind of conversation who'd say, Chad, you need to look for, you know, good dogs that have fleas. That means a property that's a good, a good potential property in a good neighborhood, but man, it's like the worst house in the worst house on the street. It has, it needs work and there's issues with it. Very often it's the remodeling that needs to be fixed. And so this is like, instead of just a cosmetic fixer-upper that we talked about with the five hour investors, a light light cosmetic, this is, I mean, you could be a little more ambitious, buy a property that has, you know, it needs to remodel the whole kitchen, or it needs to have bathrooms that need to be

• 38:25Speaker 01

  updated. Or maybe if you're like really, if you have really good contractors and you're more ambitious, maybe you're adding an ADU to the property and doing new construction. So I think there's a spectrum of your skill set and the amount of time you have to add to that. But that's where the best deals come in from like the deals that you can buy where the property is worth in the end, you know, 300,000 and you're in it for 70% of that. You know, maybe you're buying it for 200,000 or something like. So, so those deals are out there, but they're gonna, they're gonna start off really ugly, like in some way, because the remodel's ugly, you know, the property looks ugly. Yeah. Other people don't see it yet. But because you understand underneath the surface that there's potential there, either through the, the value by fixing it up, or by changing the zoning or something,

• 39:08Speaker 01

  those are the deals that have a really high equity growth potential. And also better cash flow potential because as we mentioned earlier, the cash flow, there is no secret. You have to borrow less money in order to make the property cash flow. But our five hour investors probably are going to have to put more money down to make that work. But the more entrepreneurial investors who have more time, you could buy a deal way below its value and then use cash to buy it and then refinance it and be at 70 cents on the dollar with your loan. And still make a cash flow because and you might have very little cash in the deal like that's, that's a great deal. But it is, it takes, there's more to it, you know, that's, that's why I think I kind of reserved that for the second category of investors instead of the, a lot of the people who don't have that much time.

• 39:46Dave Meyer?

  This market in general, like I just feel like it's not the time to take a lot of risk because you don't have to, but also if you're newbie, like there's just no reason to take a lot of risk. Like you said earlier about cash flow, this key is to stay in the game. Don't lose like just, you don't even need to win. You just need to not lose, especially in your first couple of deals. And so I, I, I think that's excellent advice here. I love your framework, by the way, Chad of starter, builder and harvester. So you, you're in the harvester phase of your career now, right? So tell us a little bit about that and like what's that's been like for you? Cause I think this is where everyone wants to be eventually.

• 40:25Speaker 01

  So I'm a, I'm more of a harvester now and I've been doing it for 22 years. But to me, the difference, like most of the investment we talk about is either in the starter phase, getting your first deal or two, or the builder phase where people are, you're trying to take a hundred thousand dollars that you've saved up and turn that into a million dollars. Like that's, that's the builder phase and it's all about leverage and it's all about maximizing the amount of growth you make and your return on investment. And that's great. Like there's nothing wrong with that. But the harvester phase is almost like you're switching to a different, different laws of physics because the, the goal isn't just to grow and maximize your wealth, although you want to keep growing. But it is also to increase your cash flow. It's also to reduce your risk and it's also to increase your time, like your amount of time you had to actually go take those trips and enjoy your life. And like, this is the reason we did it in the first place.

• 41:09Speaker 01

  So harvesting is really about transitioning your portfolio from one that has a lot of equity, but not much cash flow, which is very common in real estate. By the way, like I've seen so many people who have, you know, a million dollars or $3 million in wealth, but they're, they're making a much smaller cash flow than they should for that amount of wealth. And so what Harvester is all about is making these harvester moves, which could mean selling some properties. It could mean refinancing strategically. It could mean paying off debt, which for me has been all three of those, all of the above. We've gone from instead of having like my whole portfolio is at 70% debt to value. Now we're more like 15 or 20% debt to value. Some of that's just been amortizing loans over time, but some of us just been deliberately paying properties off.

• 41:53Speaker 01

  Like we have 150,000 saved up from selling a property and cash flow from our rentals. What do we do with that money? You know, most people would say, well, go buy three more rentals and put 50,000 down or buy two rentals and put 75,000 down. That's a builder move. Harvester move is to say, no, I want to keep my portfolio as simple as possible. I'm actually going to go pay off $150,000 loan that's at 8% interest, which is a little higher than my other loans. And now I own that property free and clear and I freed up, you know, 1,200 or $1,500 per month with zero risk. I didn't have any risk and I increased my cash flow. And that's a, that's a very good move as a harvester. I wouldn't recommend it as a starter, but as a harvester, that makes a ton of sense because you shifted to a different goal than just trying to maximize your return on investment.

• 42:35Dave Meyer?

  Yeah, I love this, this framework. I think it's so good for everyone listening to just keep this in mind because there's so much advice out there about real estate. All of it is good advice, but where you fall within this framework, I think is so important to your decision making. Like the stuff that Chad was just talking about of paying down debt. It's where a lot of us get to, once you've been doing this for 10 or 15 years, you realize you just want this simple. But it makes sense. It's not what you're going to do on your first deal. You're not going to buy something for cash. You're probably not going to take out a 15 year mortgage instead of a 30 year mortgage because you want to pay, you have less debt. So just keep that in mind. And I think especially now at the beginning of the year, it's really important to just sit down and say to yourself, like, this is what I'm doing.

• 43:18Dave Meyer?

  I'm still a starter, so I'm going to make starter moves or I'm a builder and I'm going to make builder moves. Or I'm a harvester and I'm going to make harvester moves. I think that will really help simplify all the noise out there. Cause it's not that it's bad advice, but there's just so many different things you can do in real estate. You can't possibly consider them all. And it's better to just sort of narrow down on the things that make sense for you.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  It psychologically is hard sometimes because it's easy to compare ourselves to others. That's what we humans do. So I get why it's hard to do. You see, you see your buddy over there who's flipped three houses and done two bird deals and isn't that amazing? And you're just as smart as them. Like, how come I can't do it? But I think the strongest investors know themselves and they're okay. And then they, they accept the fact that this is where I am. I have five hours per week and I'm a builder. I'm not a harvester. This is what I'm going to do. Or, hey, I have five hours per week and I've built enough wealth. I think this is enough. Like, that's a, that's a really hard thing for investors to say because we're very ambitious, myself included. But to acknowledge that, you know what, I'm, I have transitioned where I have enough wealth here. It's time to take some risk off the table. That is a very difficult thing for people to do who are, who've been building for years.

• 44:25Speaker 01

  And the, the way, the trick that I've tried to get in my head is that this isn't a forever thing. Like, this is, this is me winning the game so that I can stay in the game for the rest of my life. Like, you know, I've won the game. Don't, don't take, Warren Buffett always says, you know, it's ridiculous or it's insanity to risk what you already have, this wealth that you've built, for something you don't even need.

• 44:46Dave Meyer?

  Yep.

• 44:46Speaker 01

  Like, you, you, you got enough. You've got enough. Like, why would you risk the thing you already have for this extra property, this extra wealth that you don't even need? Like, take some chips off the table.

• 44:55Dave Meyer?

  All right. Well, Chad, thank you so much for being here. It's always fun chatting with you. Any last advice to the audience for 2026?

• 45:01Speaker 01

  I would say it's gonna be an exciting year. I mean, you're gonna have to channel the news and the information you get. Listen to Dave, listen to my podcast, listen to people who are gonna be more optimistic, but realistic. Like, we're not, we're not like saying, wear rose colored glasses and say everything's gonna be rosy. We might hit a recession. We might have bad news. But I think the, the message that I'm trying to convey is that if you think long-term, it's almost like you're gonna cross the ocean. You're definitely, you're gonna hit some storms. You're gonna have some waves. It's gonna go up and down. But like, keep your eye on the prize. The prize is getting to the other shore, the other side of the shore. And be, the more long-term thinking you are, the more long-term investor you are. It's just, it's a calming effect. You don't, you don't have to worry about the ups and downs as much. In fact, when you have downs, that's an opportunity. And I, I think that's really where we are.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Who knows? I'm not good at predicting, but I think this is an opportunity year. And so keep, keep your eye on the prize long run and then be disciplined and safe with your approach. But then go out and do it. Like, go out and buy some properties. Find your lane, whether you're a five-hour investor or a 20, 30-hour a week investor. Find the lane that you're good at and then let that be enough.

• 46:03Dave Meyer?

  I love it. Well, thank you so much, Chad, for being here. It's always great to have you.

• 46:07Speaker 01

  It's a pleasure. Thanks for having me.

• 46:08Dave Meyer?

  And thank you all so much for listening to this episode of the BiggerPockets Podcast. We'll see you next time.

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