Jacob Elordi

Jacob Elordi is not anyone's idea of a monster but he's playing the most iconic of creatures in Guillermo Del Toro's Frankenstein, and he's earning the best reviews of his stellar career yet! Here he joins Josh to chat about EUPHORIA, SALTBURN, the upcoming WUTHERING HEIGHTS, Heath Ledger, and being a crazy dog dad. UPCOMING EVENTS Brendan Fraser 11/18 in NYC -- ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Tickets here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out the ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Happy Sad Confused patreon here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠! We've got discount codes to live events, merch, early access, exclusive episodes, video versions of the podcast, and more! Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network and no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month or get the premium Visible Plus Pro plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 0:31Speaker 01

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• 0:59Speaker 02

  Worst noted director has ever given you?

• 1:03Speaker 02

  What are you doing with your mouth? Stop doing that. It looks stupid.

• 1:11Speaker 02

  I've worked with him for like seven years. Little euphoria action, Sam? Okay, all right. But you know what? He was right. It looked really stupid.

• 1:22Speaker 03

  Prepare your ears, humans. Happy, sad, confused begins now.

• 1:29Josh Horowitz?

  Hey guys, it's Josh. Welcome to another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Another first time guest. We're on a run lately. We've had a lot of first timers. We often have the repeat guest today. Jacob Elordi, one of the hottest young actors on the scene, joining me to talk about everything from The Kissing Booth, Euphoria, and of course Frankenstein. Thanks, guys, as always, for checking out the pod. This is, this is a really, I won't say this was a surprise, but I didn't know what to expect from Jacob Elordi. And boy, did he deliver not only in performance at Frankenstein, but in this conversation. I really gained so much more respect even than I already had for him because. He's just a true, I don't know, he loves this stuff. He loves acting. He loves film.

• 2:14Josh Horowitz?

  Clearly lives and breathes this stuff and I can always vibe with someone like that. So you're gonna dig this one. I dug it. Before we get to Jacob, reminder, of course, check out our Patreon where you get all the early access and discount codes and autographed merch and so much cool stuff. Patreon.com/happy, sad, confused. We are publishing so many cool episodes right now. So there's more, more stuff there than ever, to be honest. And we do have some live events coming up, including Brendan Fraser, November 18th in New York City. Get in on that one. We're screening his new film Rental Family and some really, some really cool other events coming up very soon. Oh, there's Lucy. She's getting up. That's, that's the bonus if you're watching on Spotify or YouTube.

• 2:57Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, so Jacob, look, this guy is doing it right. He of course came to fame in the Kissing Booth series and that's one thing. And he's very sweet and appreciative of that. But to see what he's been doing lately,

• 3:12Josh Horowitz?

  you know, big props to this guy for how he's navigating his career. Euphoria, of course, but then of course, working with, Paul Schrader and Sofia Coppola and now Guillermo del Toro. Yeah, as the creature, no less in Frankenstein. And I say this to him and I am not alone in this. Jacob Elordi is kind of the best thing in Frankenstein and I'm not, it's not a slight to anybody else, but he, he's amazing. It's a really great performance and I honestly hope he gets some recognition in the award space. I mean, not that that stuff really matters, blah, blah, blah. But he deserves it. Guys, look at her face. Look at Lucy's. Is that the cutest dog ever?

• 3:53Josh Horowitz?

  And that's a good, actually, that's a good connection to Jacob because we talk a lot about our dogs. He's a big dog person too. So again, one, my heart on that point too. Dog chat and movies chat and Guillermo del Toro chat with an actor. Triple win. Frankenstein, I believe is still in some theaters, but it's also gonna hit Netflix. I think it's might be on Netflix by the time you are listening or watching this. So no excuses. Enjoy the feast that is Cameron del Toro delivering one of his passion projects. And enjoy watching, you know, a guy really coming into his own as an actor. And of course, I didn't even mention Saltburn. He's gonna be in Wuthering Heights.

• 4:34Josh Horowitz?

  Wuthering Heights, can't say it out loud, coming soon, which is gonna be a big movie next year. So lots in this conversation to enjoy. Without any further ado, here's me and Jacob Elordi. Why look, it's Jacob Elordi on my Zoom screen. How are you, man? Thank you for doing this. I appreciate you.

• 4:52Speaker 02

  Josh, thank you for having me.

• 4:55Josh Horowitz?

  Our paths really have barely crossed. I think we had like a fleeting moment at an MTV Movie Awards Silly Bananas show, which is not a real place to have any kind of human interaction. But this is the real deal now. You ready?

• 5:08Speaker 02

  This is the real, this is the realist of deals. A Zoom screen, the idea of you, a digital idea of me.

• 5:16Josh Horowitz?

  I'm better in digital. I don't know about you, but I'm better in digital form.

• 5:20Speaker 02

  God, don't say that.

• 5:23Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I will say, I was saying before, I'm coming to your event tonight, so hopefully we'll see each other in person.

• 5:28Speaker 02

  I'll see you in the flesh. I just start crying when I see your face. Oh, God, he was right. Oh, God.

• 5:34Josh Horowitz?

  Get back into your Zoom box.

• 5:38Josh Horowitz?

  So before, okay, so before we talk Frankenstein, and I adore this film and adore this performance, let's talk dogs for a second. It's on your shirt. My dog pillow is right behind me.

• 5:49Speaker 02

  I can see that, yeah.

• 5:50Josh Horowitz?

  We are, we are, I believe we're both obsessive dog dads. Leila is yours?

• 5:55Speaker 02

  A little Staffy?

• 5:57Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, yeah, Staffy, Pitt.

• 5:58Speaker 02

  Little Staffy, Pitt.

• 6:03Speaker 02

  Their bellies are so nice.

• 6:05Josh Horowitz?

  Don't get me started. Yeah.

• 6:07Speaker 02

  That warm little belly, just so, so good.

• 6:10Josh Horowitz?

  The mine is out on a walk right now, but tell me about yours as Leila?

• 6:15Speaker 02

  That's, that's very.

• 6:16Josh Horowitz?

  My dog walker is known as my wife. My, no, we just, we trade off.

• 6:22Speaker 02

  Oh, that says a lot about me.

• 6:29Josh Horowitz?

  Um. Tell me about your dog and your, have you always been a dog guy?

• 6:33Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, my whole life. We grew up with, um, we had a Dalmatian when I was smaller called Dottie. And, um, and then we had a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel called Paris. Um, and we loved them, just love, love, love, love, love dogs. And my, my dream actually, when I was, uh, like a teenager, when I was in high school, my dream was to live in New York in an apartment with a German Shepherd and feed it pizza while I watch cartoons.

• 7:04Speaker 02

  So I kind of, I essentially do that now, but in a much more responsible way. I don't give my dog pizza. Cause I wanted to live forever, but I'm essentially living my dream.

• 7:13Josh Horowitz?

  Where, where do you stand on dressing a dog in human clothing? Halloween is coming up. Is, is Leila gonna get a costume or no?

• 7:20Speaker 02

  You know, I should say, I should say that I hate it.

• 7:25Speaker 02

  But I can't.

• 7:27Josh Horowitz?

  No, I'm with you. I, I used, I used to make fun of people that did that, but now I.

• 7:31Speaker 02

  So cute when you put a little T-shirt on them and they, they follow you around with a T-shirt on. It's so beautiful. I mean, it's probably, and also I think my dog enjoys it. Like she gets, she gets really proud when she puts something on. She starts just wiggling around the house.

• 7:47Josh Horowitz?

  Totally. What have you, what have you dressed her up as in the, just in a shirt?

• 7:51Speaker 02

  I put her in, um, the Matildas are in a, uh, Aussie soccer team. Uh, and I put her in a, in a little Matilda's jersey, uh, which was honestly, uh, cried a bit. It was so cute. She looks so, so cute. And then I put her in like, I just usually put her in my clothes.

• 8:10Speaker 02

  And she just takes it. She just kind of stays.

• 8:13Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah. Our, ours, I feel like is specializing in horror figures. She, uh, for one Halloween, she was Chucky. And this Halloween, she's gonna, she's gonna be Pennywise, the clown. So we're just running through.

• 8:23Speaker 02

  There's the other kind of one. Have you seen those costumes where the arm moves? There's like an arm attached to it.

• 8:28Josh Horowitz?

  That's exactly it.

• 8:29Speaker 02

  That's stabbing while they walk across the.

• 8:32Josh Horowitz?

  The video I have of her doing that is one of my favorites.

• 8:34Speaker 02

  What do you say I've ever seen?

• 8:44Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network. And no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month. Or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month when you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 9:15Speaker 05

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• 9:47Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, we got the important stuff out of the way. Second most important is Frankenstein. Dude, this movie, this performance, you are the heart and soul of this movie. I mean, truly, what an accomplishment. Congratulations. I mean, this is a stacked cast, let's be real. Oscar Isaac, Christoph Waltz, Mia Goth, I'm talking to Mia tomorrow. And with all due respect to all of them, you steal this movie, man. This is your movie. I mean, talk to me a little bit about not only being in a Guillermo movie, being the creature in a Guillermo movie. This is rarefied air. This is checking off, I would imagine, something that wasn't even on the bucket list, perhaps? I don't know.

• 10:28Speaker 02

  No, it wasn't on any tangible bucket list. This was on the list of impossible dreams that you have. Because your first dream is just to act. You know, to act in some kind of professional sense, anywhere, to be on a stage or do something. And then, I remember I had this pang when I was 16. I was looking at, I was looking, can you hear that wind a lot?

• 10:52Josh Horowitz?

  It's okay, it's fine. Yeah, it's all good.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  Could you close those windows, please? Thank you. I was looking, I was like, I was sleepless, and I knew I was gonna be able to perform. But then I was like, what if you don't get to like, do it the way that you've seen it done? Like, what if you don't get to go to that, that next place and really be in movies? So this kind of feels like the kind of beginning of, of, of that sort of dream or fear that I had to. I'm kind of in a strange space afterward, sort of driving around New York and seeing the creature on a billboard and, and understanding that I just, I just did my, um, uh, my dark night, you know, or, uh, you know, there is, uh,

• 11:37Speaker 02

  it feels like that for me. Um, so it's, it, it's really heady and, and, um, you can't, you can't, I think, I'm hoping this is a sign of a sane man, but you can't, uh, you can't comprehend it.

• 11:51Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 11:51Speaker 02

  You know, you can't really sit down and go, this is real and this is happening. And everything that you saw play in your head is playing out almost like it's deja vu. Um, you know, uh, it's, uh, it's enough to make a man go mad.

• 12:09Josh Horowitz?

  Well, I, I mean, look, you, you, you more than met the moment, man, because like that, that's, it's one thing to get that role, get that opportunity. But then to deliver in the way you did, I mean, truly kudos all around. I mean, and, and this happens, for those who don't know, in an unusual way. I mean, I, I, you know, I talked to the lovely, Andrew Garfield, who's been so sweet. He's like so excited, he's so excited to see you, your take on this. Um, and, you know, he was attached, this is obviously a passion project for Guillermo, that he was trying to get off the ground for many years. And you, you kind of like were just dropped into this pretty last minute. In, in a way, are you happy it, it happened the way it did? I mean, obviously you probably would have liked more prep time, but you clearly had enough.

• 12:51Speaker 02

  No, it, it happened, it happened in the way that it was, it was supposed to happen. I think if I, I think if I'd been originally attached and had to sit on it for a year and a half, I, I think I would have overcooked it. Um,

• 13:03Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 13:03Speaker 02

  Uh, and, uh, I also had just come out of a job with Justin Cozel. Um, that was sort of felt like a different level of, uh, uh, that it took a different, uh, it took a different piece of me to make. Um, that I was looking to kind of process and go away and, and, and reflect on.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  But it ended up being the the fact that I had just given a different piece of myself was exactly what I needed to do to be able to just step straight into uh into into playing the creature. So everything kind of happened for a reason and I'm not completely opposed to the idea that it's because Guillermo del Toro has been had like a witch's stew brewing for for twenty plus years and somewhere along the way he like he sent a little fairy into my room to pluck my hair out and and put it into the

• 13:56Speaker 02

  because so much of it

• 13:59Speaker 02

  felt like deja vu. If if that makes sense, so much of it felt like it had been happening for a really long time and it did feel like I'd been preparing to play that character for a really long time subconsciously. Um it felt like the kind of, it's like what you, if you're a samurai, like what you've kind of been training for.

• 14:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 14:20Speaker 02

  Building towards your whole life and you can only build towards something like that kind of unconsciously, I think as well. You can't direct that kind of that energy. It's just something that has to has to happen, I think.

• 14:32Josh Horowitz?

  It also takes someone like Guillermo who like, look, I I've been privileged enough to know for many years. Journalists love him. Film fans love him, actors love him because I don't know how many hugs he's given you. I think I've been hugged by Guillermo del Toro more than like by my mom, my mom perhaps. The sweetest man on the planet and lives and breathes this shit and just and is born to be what he is. Um and I would imagine creates such a a warm inviting space where you can you can take risks and you can feel like you're out on a limb and know he's gonna have your back.

• 15:04Speaker 02

  Totally. I mean, he creates the, he creates this kind of

• 15:09Speaker 02

  factory space in which he allows all different professional artists to come and expose themselves and feel good about contributing. Um I think and it's also just through curation, like a director is a great curator. I think a curator of taste and of and of style and he's put this this team is not deliberate is is not not deliberate.

• 15:33Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 15:34Speaker 02

  You know, um.

• 15:34Josh Horowitz?

  It's taken him years to kind of

• 15:36Speaker 02

  To build this crew, which is, yeah, which is like an extent there. Every person that works on that film is an extension of his creative soul. Uh everybody knows the language and everybody sort of, when you check into work in the morning, it's like you're plugging into. The gamma mainframe, you know, you're you're aware of the law, you know, the the world that he's created through his cinema, you know how he feels about films and that's just, he just pumps that out constantly on set, you know, but I think it's because he receives something from the process of filmmaking as well. He's getting an energy from somewhere else that we can't, we we can't be privy to because he's dedicated his whole life to this thing.

• 16:18Speaker 02

  And then he's generous in that he shares that with the with the with the people around him. When he's making a project and then the hope is that something comes out, which I think is what this film is. That is this sort of wonderful masterpiece uh made by a bunch of different artisans and craftspeople um.

• 16:40Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, well, I mean, you alluded to this. I love that you already mentioned Dark Knight because I've come across this in the research. You mentioned that as a formative experience and like, there are two actors that always come up on this podcast when I talk to actors from like twenty twenty to sixty. It's Philip Seymour Hoffman and Heath Ledger.

• 16:55Speaker 02

  Heath Ledger, yeah. Because they have the same, they have the same gaze, the pair of them have the same uh, they say something and then their eyes say something else. And then there's this other thing that just gets into your stomach when you're watching that. And that's, I don't know what that is. I don't know what that uh, it's an unattainable thing. And I think it's, I think it's moved all of us, you know.

• 17:18Josh Horowitz?

  So you have indelible memories. You're what, like eleven years old or so when you see, when you see Dark Knight and it's, it's everything about it, but in particular, is it, is it that Joker performance that knocked you back?

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Because because I I'm sure you remember too, the marketing, there was uh, these, there was these posters that said, why so serious in the fog of the uh, there was a fogged out window and there was this like sort of purple silhouette behind the fog and all you could see was his smile in the. And even now, I can, like, I get, I I'm terrified of that, of that thing. And then I remember it was the first time I was aware of press. I remember driving to school and hearing people talk on the radio. And they were like, well, don't take your young ones, because there's a pencil scene that is just, you know, like highlighting this one sort of point. And I remember

• 18:08Speaker 02

  sitting in the car and being like, how does he, how does he make the pencil? Because like he makes a pencil disappear in a way that will make your stomach stomach turn. And I was like,

• 18:16Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 18:17Speaker 02

  How could you make a pencil disappear in my stomach? I remember not really fully understanding it. And then one time my mom was away and my dad had taken me on a basketball trip. And um, I remember we were driving after the, after that radio interview. And I was like, please. I know mom said no, but please, like, please take me to see that. I've got to see this movie.

• 18:35Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 18:36Speaker 02

  And and we went and saw it. And I'll never forget when the pencil, the pencil disappeared. I just about threw up out of, out of excitement, like just pure excitement. Every movement he does with the the grenade strings as he backs out of the room, everything, everything, the humor, the the the depth, the the voice, the movement, the costume, uh, and then just the film, Nolan's film as well, you know. Which is an interesting thing, because now to speak like this about that movie, because of the internet, it's become like a uh, it's become a cinema boy trope. Um.

• 19:12Josh Horowitz?

  Justifiable in this case. It can't be overhyped. It's okay.

• 19:15Speaker 02

  Which is sad because it is a masterpiece.

• 19:17Josh Horowitz?

  It's legit.

• 19:18Speaker 02

  And

• 19:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:19Speaker 02

  And for for a certain generation, it it did, it did rupture our uh, our movie going experience.

• 19:28Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 19:28Speaker 02

  Uh, yeah. And very few films have really done that, because we were sort of going into a different kind of commercial cinema at the time. Um, so it, so I think it is historically a really important uh, film and and uh, performance.

• 19:43Josh Horowitz?

  It's also then you, when you you grow up and you get a little older and you start to get serious about this and you think about the context of his career and it's it it is applicable to many young actors like like yourself at this juncture where like, what he did with this like, you know, he could have been the pretty boy, taken kind of the boring leading man roles, but like, broke back. And Dylan, Bob Dylan and Joker, it was like.

• 20:08Speaker 02

  He was doing something, he was doing something else, you know, he was um, he was, and if you watch him speak in interviews, he, he was talking about something else. He was, he was pushing something else and that's something else I think is something that's vital. To not just cinema, but to, to, to art um, and to, and to, to being here. I, I do think he was one of our great, great artists and I, and I am biased because when you see. When you, when I realized that he came from just the other side of my country. And I realized that he drove across to Sydney, which is what I was gonna do as soon as I finished school. When I realized it was a, it was a tangible thing, um, and that somebody from, from home.

• 20:52Speaker 02

  Could cultivate something like that. It, it was, it's a, it's an inspiration that I'll, I'll never be able to say thank you enough for.

• 21:02Josh Horowitz?

  So, so growing up, it sounds like from what I gather, that's kind of the exception. You weren't a comic book kid necessarily, but that one kind of transcended.

• 21:08Speaker 02

  I was, I was, I was, but, but, but, but in a, a, I loved. I, I just had an obsession with, with stories. Um, uh, um, I read, I read all kinds of, uh, comic books. And, and, uh, and, um, watched a lot of movies and read a lot. Uh, I've always just, my, my world has always existed in. Through fable and, and, and stories and, um.

• 21:32Josh Horowitz?

  Lord of the Rings kid, like what were your?

• 21:34Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, massively, massively. And but especially around like. Twelve and thirteen, when, when all you wanna do is you wanna see monsters. And that's what I, that's what I love about, I mean, they'll hate that I say this about Frankenstein. But there was a few times where I would walk past a mirror and I thought I looked like a Uruk Kai. Like from, uh, you know, I just come out of the mud, like there was something in that long hair and I was like, this, he could be. He could go straight into Lord of the Rings and, and, and, and play something. Cause that, that, the scope of that world is. I'm pretty sure what, of most young actors, your, your dream is to step onto like, you know, Peter Jackson. Set and see, you know, fantasy and magic and prosthetics and practical effects and,

• 22:19Speaker 02

  you know. So I read a lot of Empire. I read a lot of Empire magazines.

• 22:23Josh Horowitz?

  Oh, please.

• 22:24Speaker 02

  That was for me was I was buying old copies on eBay and like, you know, just going through the whole sort of process.

• 22:30Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, back in my day in the States, it was Premier Magazine, but later on Empire totally in the UK. I love it.

• 22:42Speaker 00

  Visible puts the ultimate wireless hack in the palm of your hand. With unlimited 5G wireless data and hotspot designed to keep you connected. Powered by Verizon's 5G network and no contract holding you back. Plans start at $25 a month or get the premium Visible Plus Pro Plan and save $10 on your first month. When you use promo code HACK. Make the switch at visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for details.

• 23:13Speaker 05

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• 23:45Josh Horowitz?

  So when you start to get serious about acting, do you remember like who the first person was that kind of like gave you some validation that said like, stick with this?

• 23:55Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, I did. Well, I did my first play. Uh, when I played the Cat in the Hat in Suzie called the Musical.

• 24:07Speaker 02

  Uh it something happened on on stage uh that kind of feeling when and maybe they just felt sorry for me, I'm not sure. But when you feel, when you feel that you have hooked the audience i- in a moment, when you, when you feel them sort of hanging on your words. I think a a small version of that happened, or it was just like my mum's enthusiasm and love for me just beaming to to to me on the stage. Um whatever it was, I think I felt a lot of validation when I did that um stage play when, because I would, I'd be down in the floor under the trap door. And then I think the line was um no, maybe some kind of hat wearing and then the the floor would come up and I'd go, cat.

• 24:53Speaker 02

  From the moment that trap door sprung up and that like that energy that just surged through your, through your body, I think that was the kind of validation that I was like, oh. I'm in trouble here, I'm gonna have to do this.

• 25:04Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 25:05Speaker 02

  For for my whole life. Um but then I had, I had a great acting teacher. Um I went to these Nida short courses when I was fourteen on Sundays and um I had a teacher there named Zoe who uh. I did a speech from Good Will Hunting, like, what do you wanna hear, Skyler, that I I put these cigarettes out of me, or whatever it is. That one that everybody, everybody loves to do and you're really intense and yelling and. And but she saw something in that and then she told her agent and then through her agent, I met another uh wonderful woman named Veronica and um. She would kind of, she would just have long lunches with me and and talk and talk to me as if I was um a an artist on the same level.

• 25:47Speaker 02

  And they were, they were in our, they were in uh, you know, stage productions in Sydney and Melbourne and I've, they were the first actors that I felt like really kind of. Understood what I was, what I was trying to say or the thing that I couldn't quite articulate but that I was driving at.

• 26:02Josh Horowitz?

  It it's so funny to look back and think of kind of like the things that like, you know, we laugh about now, it's cat in the hat, but it's so meaningful. And then you think of something like.

• 26:09Speaker 02

  Totally.

• 26:10Josh Horowitz?

  Later, later on and like, look, I mean, a lot of people, like, you know, I work for MTV, so a lot of people first knew.

• 26:15Speaker 02

  Cool.

• 26:16Josh Horowitz?

  From Kissing Booth and obviously like that at the time when you're cast in that must have been so huge, must have felt like the world was opening up.

• 26:24Speaker 02

  It was, it was um and making that film, the first film was one of the greatest experiences I've ever had on a set. It was like. I remember that was when I really had the thought, like, you know, the the best day in the real world doesn't compare to the even the worst day on a film set. Like, you know, uh, it was magic, like, to be with people from this, from a different country and to be able to connect with people, a completely different culture. And to stand around and and think that filming these words or this thing was important in some kind of way and just the the the level of play, um, and I took that movie dead serious. Like, like, to me, I was like, you know, I I broke down the kind of a

• 27:09Speaker 02

  the the the teenage existential catastrophe that is Noah Flynn.

• 27:15Speaker 02

  You know, uh, tragedy, the tragedy of choice and and, you know, all these, all these things, um. But it was, uh, um, it was, it was incredible, you know, somebody was, somebody, I I think Pacino and maybe Hoffman said something along the lines of this, but um, uh, if someone is paying for the for the room and uh, the space that you are and then asking you to come in and act in that space, then you're doing it. Then you then you are, you are an actor. If someone else is paying the rent on the building that you're acting in. And that's what that was. It's like someone's, someone is paying money for me to put on a leather jacket and wear a disgruntled tie and uh, ask this young woman when her boobs came in over the summer.

• 28:00Speaker 02

  Like, it's so, so.

• 28:03Speaker 06

  Living the dream beyond again.

• 28:06Speaker 02

  But it is, you know.

• 28:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, I get it.

• 28:08Speaker 02

  And I was, you know, I farewellled my friends and family. Everybody came down to the airport and and I got to fly business class and cut the line and, you know, I it felt like something was happening. And I remember I bought like new shoes for the trip, like some Adidas sneakers that I never would have been able to get and. And and I'm still, I mean, to now, talking to you now, I'm still on that same trip. I never went, I never went home. I'm I've I've stayed with the same same suitcase, essentially.

• 28:36Josh Horowitz?

  It does feel like, coming full circle, what you're talking about, this is almost like the end of act one. It feels like Frankenstein, kind of like, if I'm looking, if I'm writing the the book, the biopic, Jade Malory. This is either the beginning of the second act or the end of act one. And now you're between Saltburn and Euphoria and this, you're like, you get into the juicy stuff. This is the fun, this is the fun times.

• 28:56Speaker 02

  I've been so lucky, yeah, and and and uh I was understood very quickly, which which is a great, a great gift. And I've been given the opportunity to act on sets with people.

• 29:08Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 29:09Speaker 02

  And that that, you know, so you you don't get this opportunity and that's not, that's not lost on me, you know.

• 29:17Josh Horowitz?

  Was was it shocking? Look, you have Kissing Bit is huge in its own way, and then Euphoria is huge in a totally different way.

• 29:23Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 29:24Josh Horowitz?

  And the reception to that, could it be more, it's always very similar, it's another obsessive, like obsessive fanbase, but it's totally different.

• 29:31Speaker 02

  It was so similar. It was actually really similar. It was just like a different age bracket. Um, and some of the, and some of the same, it was weird too, because I had, I'd had, once Euphoria came out, I'd had people that had been watching my work since they were twelve.

• 29:46Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:47Speaker 02

  When they're old. And then I was, I was meeting them at sixteen or seventeen, and then I watched you in this, so I felt old really quickly.

• 29:54Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 29:55Speaker 02

  Just by the nature of the size of both those, the sort of social size of both those uh jobs, you know.

• 30:02Josh Horowitz?

  Were you, were you immediately defensive, protective of Nate when the film, when the show came out and the reactions were, I mean, part of the design of the character, you should have a strong reaction to him, but did it catch you off guard?

• 30:16Speaker 02

  I think I was I was excited that it had uh that it had um that it made some people so sort of. Because if you get a reaction from something that you play, that's kind of that's kind of the dream and and um. Someone like people telling you that they're scared of you on the street is actually an an excellent compliment. Um, you know, because it means that you've done something, you've you've caused some kind of uh uh effect. Not effect, like an actual you've affected something, um which is nice. But there was a moment, actually, when I was in New York in a room not too familiar to this. And I remember online, it was maybe one of the worst things that he'd done had just happened on television and.

• 31:01Speaker 02

  Somewhat there was this picture going around on the internet of my face on a TV screen and somebody was holding a Glock. Up to to the face and then I was uh watching people sort of live tweet. Uh because I was spent far too much time on the internet and um I was watching people be like, oh, he's on. Fifty seventh street, he's here, someone run him over with your car. Like it was like they were people were following. Where I was walking around the city. So I got incredibly paranoid.

• 31:33Josh Horowitz?

  May maybe next season, let's make him sweeter.

• 31:37Speaker 02

  At that point, um but at the same time, it was like the the X Games version of knowing that you you'd had some kind of effect.

• 31:45Josh Horowitz?

  It's it seems like in the years in this kind of period of time since, especially since Euphoria. Like many smart actors, you've been director driven. I mean, you see you see the the filmmakers you've worked with, whether it's. You know, Sofia or Paul Schrader, Emerald, Dustin Kurzell, uh Ridley Scott.

• 32:03Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 32:04Josh Horowitz?

  Is that is that is that kind of like the rule of thumb surround my just put myself in the hands of the best. Let me learn as much as possible at this point in time. Like, how are you? How are you figuring out this stage? Because you're getting opportunities, you're getting a lot of cool opportunities. So for the first time, you could say no to things. Like, how are you figuring this out?

• 32:22Speaker 02

  That's the the kind of ultimate um.

• 32:27Speaker 02

  For me, if you work with a great filmmaker, filmmakers are solely contributing to cinema. And cinema is the thing that I wanna be a part of. So these people that I'm working with have single-handedly, from Ridley, have pioneered this art form, this like this form of expression.

• 32:48Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 32:49Speaker 02

  And then you have people like Kurzell pushing, pushing the form and making films for the sake of making films. They keep, they keep my spirit alive because my spirit lives in movies. And it has for as long as I've been conscious now. So for me, it's part, partly like I have a great reverence for them and a respect. And these people are my, my heroes. And I, you know, if I wasn't working with them, I'm devouring their retrospectives all.

• 33:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 33:23Speaker 02

  Like they are the kind of gods of my, of my world. So there's that first and foremost, just a kind of a great respect. But then also you can guarantee whether the film is received or not received, that if it's made by a filmmaker that I, that I really believe in, that I think is an artist, in the gallery of kind of cinema, that film will, will have a room. It'll have a spot where it can go on the wall. And that's more important to me than, than being a career actor. I wanna kind of at the end of my time, walk into this kind of, what for me would be this kind of holy temple of.

• 34:02Josh Horowitz?

  Right, the posters on the wall.

• 34:04Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 34:04Josh Horowitz?

  The Jacoba Hoardy closet.

• 34:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, a personal, a personal criterion closet. Because, because Guillermo says something really interesting. These films are our biographies, first and foremost, the filmmakers. But every character I've played is a part of my, my biography. And I'm, I'm never, I'm never hiding anything on, on screen. My goal is to hide nothing, to, to be a performance artist and to put, to put everything that I need to say. On for uh stamped in that, you know, piece of celluloid or in that or in that moment in time. That that is my my biography sincerely.

• 34:43Josh Horowitz?

  Um. Yeah.

• 34:43Speaker 02

  Uh every every single one, uh cinematic or not cinematic. So so for me, I can, I feel more comfortable. And I feel better understood in my biography when it's articulated through the lens of a filmmaker who who I respect and think is is uh of importance.

• 35:02Josh Horowitz?

  So I I gotta think at some point you send over, you email your representation, here's my top five. Here are the filmmakers I'm gonna, I'm gonna do anything for. Give give me a couple, who who?

• 35:11Speaker 02

  I have.

• 35:12Josh Horowitz?

  Who's on the list?

• 35:13Speaker 02

  I have, I well, my it's const- it's constantly uh it's constantly shifting and and uh and and changing. Um and I I don't, you know, I'm not even gonna answer because if I do, then I'll be up all night thinking about, I really wanted to say like this person, or I really wish I'd I'd um I'd said this person. But I will tell you, you know, I met I met Wim Venders um uh two nights ago and hearing him speak about Walter Salas at the uh at the Academy Museum Gala was was a really uh I've only ever read and watched Wim Venders stuff. I've never sort of seen it and to see him give this speech, which I would have read in a book of essays or something ten years from now, was super profound.

• 35:58Speaker 02

  So, you know, somebody, somebody like that would be would be incredible. And I was also, I was, I I would have loved to have uh worked with David Lynch. I think that, I mean, obviously, it's it's such an obvious thing, but

• 36:11Josh Horowitz?

  No, it's

• 36:12Speaker 02

  Something, there's a spark that that left the world when when he passed. And I don't, obviously don't know him, but everyone, if you if you have uh, you know, uh dined with his catalog, uh you you you know that something's gone now. Something that really was from from a different place. And I think a filmmaker like that, that would have been, for me, that would have been, I could, I could happily have sort of. You know, laid down.

• 36:39Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, no, I I tell the story a lot. I got a chance to talk to him over Zoom. And then his last, he had his last years and I still have, I don't keep a lot of swag. He sent me a mug, an autographed mug after a conversation that sits on my coffee table and it's like my most prized.

• 36:57Speaker 02

  That is really spectacular. That's really, really cool.

• 37:00Josh Horowitz?

  Are there, are there rules you live by in terms of like conducting a career? I mean, Leo famously said, I think to Shalamez, like no superheroes, no hard drugs. Do you subscribe to anything like that in your own career?

• 37:14Speaker 02

  No, because I think that to think in that way is a little bit like playing, playing a movie star or something like, like it, it's so specific.

• 37:25Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 37:25Speaker 02

  Whereas I kind of, um,

• 37:29Speaker 02

  I, cause people ask this too. They'll be like, is there any kind of like film that you wanna make or character that you wanna play? And

• 37:36Speaker 02

  no.

• 37:36Josh Horowitz?

  You don't wanna close yourself off.

• 37:37Speaker 02

  No, I don't, I don't, I really don't think of it like that. It really is this kind of, I've, unfortunately, I've been referring to the process as a cancer recently, but it feels like something that just kind of mutates and grows and

• 37:50Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 37:50Speaker 02

  And I keep going down different tangents with it and it's, it's constantly changing my relationship to movies. And um, I think if I thought about rules, then I'd feel like I was trying to construct a career or something. It would feel very, very business like or, whereas, whereas I, uh, I do really, um, I can, uh, it sounds so pretentious, but I, I can see, I consider myself like a player, really, like a, like a, like a stock artist in a company. And when I find these filmmakers or they find me, I, I feel like I'm, I'm being hired to do this one, this, this very specific thing, which is to act and, um,

• 38:37Speaker 02

  Uh, hopefully I can keep my tools sharp enough that uh people wanna yeah, I can, I can uh, I can apply it in, in different sort of spaces and, and, and in different films and hopefully the uh, the more films that I make with great filmmakers that uh, your, your tool becomes more varied or something like that, but I, but I don't, I don't have any kind of like Hollywood rules.

• 39:01Josh Horowitz?

  Well, it makes sense. It's like, I mean, on paper, with all due respect, I, I don't have you casting Guillermo del Toro as the creature, not on the top of my list. And now like, having seen you do this, it opens up so many more.

• 39:13Speaker 02

  But that's why Guillermo del Toro is, is Guillermo.

• 39:15Josh Horowitz?

  That's why he's him and I'm me.

• 39:16Speaker 02

  Do you know, do you know what I mean though?

• 39:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:18Speaker 02

  Because, because he does, but he does see with that.

• 39:20Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:20Speaker 02

  With that lens and it takes, it takes that kind of trust. And it takes the, the ability to see in that way.

• 39:27Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 39:28Speaker 02

  To, to uh, to, to know, you know, um, and he knew, he knew before we spoke that, that it was going to, that it was gonna work, you know?

• 39:37Josh Horowitz?

  Um, I caught up with Margot, wonderful Margot Robbie recently, a light in the universe, another, yeah, I saw you, you guys were out and about, no, I recently.

• 39:45Speaker 02

  A witch. She's a witch.

• 39:47Josh Horowitz?

  Yes, and just like such a film geek herself, you know, you know her, like.

• 39:51Speaker 02

  She knows, she knows all Margot Robbie, she knows all.

• 39:55Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, so you guys have cooked up something special, I'm sure with Emerald, um, she's teased it a little bit. Is this gonna make our heads spin? This, your take on Wuthering Heights? Emerald, Emerald doesn't do a normal Wuthering Heights. What am I on board?

• 40:07Speaker 02

  I think it's gonna obliterate your heart. Uh, I think it's gonna, I, I, I, I, it's such a, it's such a painful love story.

• 40:17Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 40:17Speaker 02

  And such a sort of, such a tragedy, um, the whole thing and, and I just got to see the film recently and um, it's so painfully beautiful, uh, and agonizing to watch them suffer, to, to suffer in the, in the most beautiful frames. You know, you've, you've, you've ever seen Lena shot the film, so it's, it's just, it's stunning. I haven't quite wrapped my head around it yet, but I mean, it's, uh, I've not seen a film like it in a long while.

• 40:49Josh Horowitz?

  Did you, going back to Saltburn in your last collaboration with Emerald, where you must have known how it was gonna push buttons. I mean, it's kind of part of the design of it. She's a provocateur in the best possible way. Were you surprised, excited? No, not really.

• 41:02Speaker 02

  I didn't think it was so extreme. I found the world's reaction to be slightly prudish, actually. I, well, you know cinema, there's so many films out there that are like, that are like, infinitely more disturbing.

• 41:20Josh Horowitz?

  But not many that play on like 4,000 screens, I guess. Like, this was a mainstream movie that was...

• 41:25Speaker 02

  Do you know, the film lived two different lives, though. There was a life when it was just in cinemas, and it had a different response. And then, once it hit a streaming service, it got a whole different, the whole lens on the film changed, which was, which was an interesting, to see how a film's

• 41:45Speaker 02

  structure can kind of change through its endurance and through, through the format that it's viewed in was really interesting. Because once it goes on a streamer, it gets looked at through more of a social lens, than, than an experiential cinematic sort of experience, you know, a Friday night experience kind of thing. And it does change the way the film is understood, I think.

• 42:09Josh Horowitz?

  Well, yeah, I had the same kind of, I had the same kind of conversation with Harris Dickens and one of your contemporaries about Baby Girl, and how that was kind of like

• 42:17Speaker 02

  Well, yeah, actually, I saw

• 42:18Josh Horowitz?

  The memeification, yeah, yeah, like how it becomes a meme and it kind of like, you know, gifts and, and, and just becomes a different thing. It's not

• 42:26Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not, it's not, it's not for better or worse, but it does, it does change the intention. But there is something about giving, there is something when you do serve a film up to the world, it does become the world's. And that, and that is That is in its own way, that's it's a good thing, you know, uh, e- even if your point is lost, maybe it's a nice lesson in like letting your point go. Um, and then sort of and moving on. And I'm a firm believer that once, once I've sort of put the film in the can and I've finished it, it's not. It really, it really isn't mine anymore and the interpretation of it, the edit, none of it, none of it uh applies to the sort of job that I've just done. Um, so the only feeling I had when we were making it was it did, it did feel like.

• 43:11Speaker 02

  Uh, our last special summer as a family or so. It did feel like that wonderful, uh.

• 43:18Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah.

• 43:18Speaker 02

  That it was, the sun was out every day and and and it felt like a moment, like a a personal sort of moment in time, you know.

• 43:26Josh Horowitz?

  I uh, I know it's a busy day, so I promised to let you go in a minute, but quickly, um, Euphoria, I guess you've shot. I mean, we, we, we're just thankful it was shot because I mean, for a while, I think a lot of us were worried. Were you, were you kind of like, is this ever gonna happen?

• 43:40Speaker 02

  I think every, I knew, I knew it, I knew it would, I knew it would come around, um, eventually, um. But uh, but just so much, I mean, so much, the duration of that show has, uh, the world has changed as the, as the show has changed and. The, the way in which it came out pre-COVID and then during COVID and then now sort of post-COVID, it has marked a really.

• 44:04Speaker 02

  For lack of a better word, interesting time in the, in the world, but also particularly in like American culture. Um, so it's, it's strange. It's, it's really, it's really quite strange and I'm, I'm excited to see what, how this season. Plays into the kind of, I guess. World that, that Sam, Sam, Sam created, but it was, it was, um. It, I saw, I've seen, you know, dailies and things like that and it's, it looks so good. Like it looks so, so good. And I think the score is gonna be, um, the score is gonna be something else. I'm really, really excited to, uh. And cause I've only done one sort of portion of it.

• 44:47Josh Horowitz?

  Right.

• 44:48Speaker 02

  I'll get to watch the rest of it and just consume it, which is, uh, which is really, really nice.

• 44:53Josh Horowitz?

  Do you have, do you have a favorite snippy direction from Ridley Scott? That guy is just like, he, he can really like cut you to the core, I know. Um, what's your favorite piece of direction Ridley gave you on Dogstars?

• 45:03Speaker 02

  God, there's so much, um, um.

• 45:09Speaker 02

  Yeah, I think it was maybe him coming out of his trailer and just giving me the finger. And saying, fuck me, man, you're all right. Something like that.

• 45:19Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, that's all you wanna hear.

• 45:21Speaker 02

  He's one of the, what a, what a totally sort of mesmerizing experience. I got to watch this man who has been plugging himself into, into cinema his whole life. And it's, it literally pumps through his blood, like when he arrives on set in the morning, the energy that he comes into the set with and, and carries through the duration of the shoot, like he's, he's living off of cinema. You know, it's not even about the end product, it's about the actual tactile act of going and making a movie. He's like a, he's a, uh, he's a master craftsman and he's like my dad in a lot of ways, like my dad survives because he works.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  You know, he's a, he's a, he's a, he's a laboring man and Ridley Scott labors on these movies and that's what, that's what keeps the sort of the engine running. So I'm literally watching like cinema sustain a life. Uh, which is a pretty, a pretty profound thing to, to be in Italy watching, you know?

• 46:22Josh Horowitz?

  Yeah, he's writing the storyboards for the next three movies.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  He's literally sitting there storyboarding in the car in, in the back of a Maybach on the way to work and, and there's something about, you know, he directs from this trailer. Which is wrapped to look like the set and you'll hear this voice sort of croak from inside, you know, Jake. And then you come and the, the curtain pulls back and Oz is sitting there in a body of lies bucket hat, smoking a Cuban cigar. With twenty monitors in front of him, showing you exactly how he's gonna cut from this frame to that.

• 46:52Josh Horowitz?

  Cause he's got ten cameras going, it's like.

• 46:54Speaker 02

  It's like, how the fuck? Like he's cutting this movie while he's sitting in there, he's like, you're gonna walk from this camera and then you're gonna come in through here and he's, and so I'm watching playback on like eleven different monitors while he smokes a Cuban. And then he, he pats me on the back and says, isn't this what it's about? You know? Isn't this what it's about?

• 47:13Speaker 02

  This is, this is what it's about. This is it, you know?

• 47:16Josh Horowitz?

  All right, we're gonna end with this, I promise, we're over time, but happy, sad, confused, profoundly random questions, here we go. I know the answer to this one, dogs or cats, Jacob?

• 47:25Speaker 02

  Dubs, come on. I don't, I don't, I don't, I'm not anti cat though. I do, I do love a cat.

• 47:32Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Do you collect anything?

• 47:34Speaker 02

  Um, yes, um, um, um, curiosities. The little tidbits and weighted things. Little, little bags of treasure.

• 47:47Josh Horowitz?

  Love it. Favorite video game of all time?

• 47:50Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, um, uh, Kingdom Hearts.

• 47:53Josh Horowitz?

  Okay. Dakota Johnson asked me this. They ask everybody, would you rather have a mouthful of bees or one bee in your butt?

• 48:00Speaker 02

  Mouthful of bees.

• 48:02Josh Horowitz?

  That is a rare, not many people say that, Jacob.

• 48:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, like, like, like Candyman.

• 48:07Josh Horowitz?

  That's a movie reference, of course. That, that clocks.

• 48:11Josh Horowitz?

  What's the wallpaper on your phone?

• 48:14Speaker 02

  Oh, oh, right now, my wallpaper is me and my beautiful friend Kaylee Spahn from Priscilla.

• 48:21Josh Horowitz?

  I adore her.

• 48:23Speaker 02

  I love her. What a performer.

• 48:26Josh Horowitz?

  Um, last actor you were mistaken for?

• 48:31Speaker 02

  Ah, Nicolas Cage.

• 48:34Josh Horowitz?

  I mean, I was amazing, a little bit of a different age bracket.

• 48:37Speaker 02

  It's a lo, it's a longer story. I'll tell you tonight.

• 48:39Josh Horowitz?

  Okay, fair enough. Uh, worst noted director has ever given you?

• 48:45Speaker 02

  Um. Um. Wha, what are you doing with your mouth? Stop doing that. It looks stupid.

• 48:56Speaker 02

  I've worked with him for like seven years.

• 48:59Josh Horowitz?

  Little euphoria action, Sam? Okay, all right.

• 49:03Speaker 02

  But you, but you know what? He was right. It looked really stupid.

• 49:08Josh Horowitz?

  And finally, in the spirit of happy sad confused, an actor who always makes you happy. You see them on screen, you're in a better mood.

• 49:14Speaker 02

  Josh Brolin.

• 49:16Josh Horowitz?

  Good call. Movie that makes you sad?

• 49:20Speaker 02

  Um, selected in New York.

• 49:23Josh Horowitz?

  And a food that makes you confused. You don't get it.

• 49:27Speaker 02

  Mango and mango and meat, mango and chicken salad, fruit, fruit chutney. Anything. Oh, no, better answer, minestrone soup. It should be banned.

• 49:41Josh Horowitz?

  There's the Jacob Alordi hot take of the day.

• 49:46Josh Horowitz?

  Um, man, congratulations on the movie Frankenstein is fantastic. The performance is honestly next level. And I'm so happy this happened. I've been back in the career for a while and I'm a big fan, as you can tell.

• 49:58Speaker 02

  I wanted to talk to you for a long time, so thank you for taking the time.

• 50:01Josh Horowitz?

  And I'll, I'll catch up with you hopefully for a second in person tonight.

• 50:04Speaker 02

  Yeah, sounds good, man. I'll see you then.

• 50:07Speaker 03

  And so ends another edition of Happy, Sad, Confused. Remember to review, rate and subscribe to this show on iTunes or wherever you get your podcasts. I'm a big podcast person. I'm Daisy Ridley and I definitely wasn't pressured to do this by Josh.

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