Short Stuff: Magic 8 Ball

The Magic 8 Ball, the mystical fortune telling pool ball started out as a piece of customer swag for the Brunswick Billiard Company. Since then, it has changed the course of history and shaped nations. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

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• 0:04Josh Clark?

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• 1:07Josh Clark?

  Hey, and welcome to the short stuff. I'm Josh and there's Chuck and Jerry's here sitting in for Dave. This is short stuff and we're talking about the Magic 8-Ball. Probably know what that is.

• 1:17Speaker 02

  We have one in our house, you know, it's kind of one of those toys that I think most Gen Xers and actually knowing how old it is, probably boomers bought for Gen Xers and now Gen Xers are buying for their alphas and zoomers and I don't know where millennials got left out. But this is the classic toy. I assume most people have seen this, but in other countries, you may not know what we're talking about, but it is essentially a, looks like a billiards ball. It's about the size of a, maybe a grapefruit. And it's got a little flat side on, let's say, the bottom. And in that side, it's got a little clear window with some dark liquid.

• 2:01Speaker 02

  And floating in that liquid is a 20 sided die with a bunch of answers to yes or no questions, with the idea being that you ask it a question, you shake this thing up, and then you see what the answer tells you. Very simple.

• 2:15Josh Clark?

  That's it. And it is very simple, but it's like, I think that's the case with a lot of stuff that just becomes a part of pop culture.

• 2:23Speaker 02

  Yes, totally.

• 2:23Josh Clark?

  There's not much to it, but just something about it comes together and makes everybody love it. And the Magic 8-Balls no different. Definitely one of the more successful toys to come out of the 20th century. And it dates back as far back as the 40s, as a matter of fact, or actually the early 50s. But the story begins further back than that. Because there was a prototype that was created by a man named Albert Carter. And he was brothers in law with a guy named Abe Bookman. And both of them together helped found the company that would eventually go on to create Magic 8-Balls, basically based on Carter's idea that he got from his mom.

• 3:01Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's a pretty cool story. So his mom was a self proclaimed clairvoyant and very popular at the time in Cincinnata during the age of spiritualism and used a spiritual writing or psychic writing device to communicate with the beyond, supposedly. And Carter was like, Mom, you're the best. You're so cool. During World War II, he built a prototype of a toy, sort of in honor of what she was doing, that he called at first the Psycho Seer, S Y C O dash S double E R, which was essentially what's inside of the Magic 8-Ball now. It was a tube divided in half, and each side has that dark liquid. And each side had a die, and you would turn it one side up or the other side up to see what it said.

• 3:44Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So there's the basis of the Magic 8-Ball right there, because that's essentially what a Magic 8-Ball is today.

• 3:50Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 3:51Josh Clark?

  So Carter went around and he's like, he's showing it to local stores in Cincinnati. And he hits upon one that's like, I love these. I want a bunch of them. Not only do I want to sell them in my store, I want to start distributing these. Let's do it. And Carter had big time struggles with alcoholism from what I've read. So he's like, I have no idea how to make anything mass produced. I just have good ideas. So he turned to his brother, Abe Bookman, who was the kind of person who could get things done. And they formed a partnership. Abe Bookman apparently had, they were, they were close as brothers in law could be.

• 4:31Josh Clark?

  I think Bookman kind of had almost like a caretaker heart for, for Carter. He said, when he was sober, he was a genius. He was always broke, but I bought every idea he ever had, and that gave him enough money to keep going. So when Carter turns to Bookman and says, I've got this really good idea, but I have no idea how to fulfill any orders. Can you help me? Like I said, they formed a partnership.

• 4:55Speaker 02

  That's right. Carter got the patent and they named it Psycho Seer, colon, the Miracle Home Fortune Teller. A few years later, they modified it a bit to say, basically made it smaller, it sounds like. And then called it the Psycho Slate, colon, the Pocket Fortune Teller, colon, we can't get it any smaller, everybody.

• 5:16Josh Clark?

  So don't ask.

• 5:17Speaker 02

  And then in 1946, they formed a novelty company named Aleb Crafts from Albert and Abe, their names. And very sadly, I imagine probably somewhat due to the life he was living, living, Carter died. And Abe was the sole owner of the company. And maybe that's a good cliffhanger to see what happens next.

• 5:40Josh Clark?

  I think it's perfect.

• 5:41Speaker 02

  All right. We're going to take a break and we'll be right back.

• 5:55Josh Clark?

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• 6:05Speaker 02

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• 6:17Josh Clark?

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• 6:33Speaker 02

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• 6:55Speaker 03

  First thought is like, wow, how are we going to do all this?

• 6:58Josh Clark?

  Hey, this is Josh and Chuck from Stuff You Should Know.

• 7:01Speaker 02

  That's Alan Goya, planning engineer at AT&T, and he's talking about Intuit Dome, home of the Los Angeles Clippers, where every seat, screen, phone, and transaction is connected with AT&T fiber and 5G, redefining the fan's experience. And Alan's master plan made it all possible.

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• 7:25Josh Clark?

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• 7:31Speaker 04

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• 7:37Speaker 02

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• 7:48Josh Clark?

  AT&T, connecting fans to what they love.

• 7:52Speaker 05

  Connecting changes everything. AT&T.

• 8:06Josh Clark?

  So where we left off, Albert Carter died sadly and Abe Bookman was running the company and he continued making novelties. And somewhere along the line, the psycho seer caught the attention of the Brunswick Billiard Company out of Chicago. They make pool tables, they make bumper bowling balls. And in 1950, they went to Bookman and said, hey, this psycho seer thing's awesome, but can you like make it into an eight ball? And Bookman was like, you're talking about the billiard version of the eight ball, right? And they were like, yes, yes. We don't even know what you're talking about at this point. And so he said, I think I can do that. And he got busy making, taking essentially the psycho seer and building

• 8:51Josh Clark?

  a plastic eight ball around it.

• 8:53Speaker 02

  That's right. A pretty good idea. This time it just has the one die. You know, you didn't need to have two sides because you just had the one window. I never knew it was 20 sided. When I read that, I was like, that's gotta be a misprint. There's no more than 10 answers on that thing. But I'm wrong. There are 10 affirmative answers. And of course, if you've played it, you'll recognize these. If not, it says things like, it is certain, or outlook good. There are five negative answers ranging from outlook not so good, to my sources say no and don't count on it. And five non-committal answers like hazy, try again, ask again later. And the idea, everybody, is that you're having

• 9:33Speaker 02

  a slumber party, and you're asking if this boy or this girl thinks you're cute or something. I mean, that's generally what it's used for. Like, I don't, people don't really consult it for like, big life decisions. But if you're a kid, that's kind of what we were like, you know, we were doing with it.

• 9:51Josh Clark?

  If you're on TV in a sitcom or a movie, then you might consult it for a big life decision. But yes.

• 9:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, sure.

• 9:58Josh Clark?

  I would guess the average person wouldn't do that, right?

• 10:00Speaker 02

  No, you just want to find out if somebody's crushing on you.

• 10:03Josh Clark?

  So, and then after that, it's light as a feather, stiff as a board.

• 10:08Speaker 02

  That's right, because your sources said no. So what else is there to do?

• 10:12Josh Clark?

  So Brunswick customers love this stuff. I'm guessing these are like wholesalers, retailers of billiard tables, that kind of thing. And they're like, I love this. Thank you so much, Brunswick. I'll be a customer forever. And so Abe Bookman was like, I'm just gonna start making these for the general public and sell them. And initially, he said, you know what this is? It's a great paperweight.

• 10:34Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:34Josh Clark?

  And he sold them as a novelty paperweight for adults, which is a really niche item. And it was not necessarily the best, the best business move.

• 10:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's funny. I feel like there are a lot of stories like that where the thing that ended up being a huge hit, they initially were just so way off in what they thought people were gonna like about it.

• 10:54Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 10:54Speaker 02

  You know?

• 10:55Josh Clark?

  Yeah, then that's a great example of it.

• 10:58Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 10:58Josh Clark?

  That, New Coke.

• 11:00Speaker 02

  Yeah, New Coke for sure. And they quickly became part of pop culture once he realized that teens love these things. They started to buy them and he said, oh, I missed, I missed on what everyone, like, this is clearly a toy. And teens have slumber parties and want to know if people are crushing on them. So I'm gonna make a million bucks selling these things. And he did. He made many millions of bucks, I imagine.

• 11:26Josh Clark?

  Yeah, apparently they sell a million a year reliably. If you own the Magic 8-Ball rights, you can expect to sell a million of them a year, every year.

• 11:35Speaker 02

  That's awesome. Let's get those rights.

• 11:37Josh Clark?

  Yeah. So you said they're part of pop culture, and I mentioned that sometimes on movies and TV, people will consult them for big life decisions. That's called a MacGuffin. That means that Magic 8-Ball is a MacGuffin, Chuck. I think you should explain it because you're the movie guy.

• 11:56Speaker 02

  I don't even know how to best describe a MacGuffin. I mean, I think it's something that,

• 12:01Speaker 02

  of low import in reality, but is, has high import as far as what it means in the film. Is that about right?

• 12:11Josh Clark?

  Yeah, it moves, it moves the plot along.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, it's not a fake thing, but it's not like, it's not like you actually found the plans or the treasure map, you know? A treasure map wouldn't be a MacGuffin unless the treasure didn't end up being a treasure, and it's just what brought you to the place to meet the girl. Does that make sense?

• 12:31Josh Clark?

  No. You just, you just channeled me.

• 12:35Speaker 02

  No, no, I think I got it.

• 12:36Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 12:37Speaker 02

  If there's a treasure map.

• 12:38Josh Clark?

  Right.

• 12:39Speaker 02

  And it leads to the treasure.

• 12:40Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 12:41Speaker 02

  Then that thing isn't a MacGuffin. That's a, it's a real deal, like a plot piece or whatever.

• 12:46Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  But if that treasure map leads you to Brazil, and there is no treasure at all, but what really happens in Brazil is X, Y, and Z.

• 12:56Josh Clark?

  Okay.

• 12:56Speaker 02

  Then the treasure map would have been a MacGuffin.

• 12:58Josh Clark?

  But then, does the stuff that happens in Brazil, the X, Y, and Z you referred to, is that what the movie's actually about?

• 13:06Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah.

• 13:06Josh Clark?

  Okay, so that's not like a boondoggle or anything like that?

• 13:09Speaker 02

  Ah, see, now I don't even know what's a boondoggle.

• 13:12Josh Clark?

  A boondoggle would be if the treasure map led to Brazil and X, Y, and Z happening, but that was a detour where really the movie's about getting to the treasure.

• 13:25Speaker 02

  Oh, okay. Well, are we talking about Romancing the Stone?

• 13:28Josh Clark?

  I, I think inevitably we just kind of fell into that.

• 13:31Speaker 02

  That was Cartagena, though.

• 13:33Josh Clark?

  It was, it was in Brazil. Cartagena, Colombia.

• 13:36Speaker 02

  Yeah, that movie really holds up, by the way.

• 13:38Josh Clark?

  I know, I saw it not too long ago. You told me you showed it to Ruby and she liked it, too.

• 13:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah, that's right. I talked about this. So fun.

• 13:46Josh Clark?

  So, yeah, that's a MacGuffin and back to the Magic Eight Ball.

• 13:49Speaker 02

  I guess it is.

• 13:50Josh Clark?

  There's a really great use of it. I guess it would be a MacGuffin in The Simpsons from 1992. I think it's Bart's Friend Falls in Love, where Bart and Milhouse are on the bus at the beginning and they're asking the Magic Eight Ball how long they'll be friends. And after a series of questions, they find out that the Magic Eight Ball tells them their friendship will be over by the end of that day. And it turns out, some new girl comes to school, captures Milhouse's heart, and Bart starts to get like jealous that Milhouse is distracted from him and their friendship because of some girl. And they end up getting in a fight and Bart strikes Milhouse with the Magic Eight Ball later on in The Treehouse.

• 14:28Speaker 02

  I think I remember that one.

• 14:29Josh Clark?

  It's a great one.

• 14:31Speaker 02

  Also, by the way, I know we could have looked up the definition of MacGuffin. But I think that was a little more fun. We've been getting some flack lately on not looking at pronunciations.

• 14:42Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah?

• 14:43Speaker 02

  Yeah, a little bit here and there. I think some snarky guy on Instagram was bagging on you because of Navidea.

• 14:51Josh Clark?

  Oh, really?

• 14:51Speaker 02

  Apparently it's Nvidia.

• 14:53Josh Clark?

  Yeah. Oh, and also, we got taken to test for Tagalog.

• 14:57Speaker 02

  Yeah, you know, sorry.

• 15:00Josh Clark?

  Yeah.

• 15:00Speaker 02

  And also, like, when you spell something NV dot, dot, dot, it's a little confusing. Sure, we could have looked it up, but I don't know. That's just not our style.

• 15:10Josh Clark?

  Yeah, plus, I was confused. I thought we were talking about Nivea, the skincare brand.

• 15:15Speaker 02

  Oh, see?

• 15:16Josh Clark?

  That sponsors the ball drop in Times Square. They're also a chipmaker, I imagine.

• 15:20Speaker 02

  That's actually Nvia.

• 15:26Speaker 02

  Is short stuff out?

• 15:28Josh Clark?

  Oh, yeah, I guess so.

• 15:29Speaker 02

  All right.

• 15:33Speaker 06

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