539 - It Keeps Getting Ruined

On today’s episode, Karen covers America’s first high-profile murder and Georgia tells the story of the Kentucky Meat Shower. For our sources, please visit https://www.myfavoritemurder.com/episodes. Support this podcast by shopping our latest sponsor deals and promotions at this link: https://bit.ly/3UFCn1g. Head to social media to share your favorite moments from this episode. Instagram: instagram.com/myfavoritemurder http://instagram.com/myfavoritemurder Facebook: facebook.com/myfavoritemurder http://facebook.com/myfavoritemurder TikTok: tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder http://tiktok.com/@my_favorite_murder Send your hometown stories to [email protected] mailto:[email protected]. Join the Fan Cult to access ad-free episodes of My Favorite Murder. Members also receive merch store discounts, exclusive audio and video content and more! Visit www.fancult.supercast.com http://www.fancult.supercast.com/ to join. Shop for My Favorite Murder and other Exactly Right merchandise here: www.exactlyrightstore.com http://www.exactlyrightstore.com/. Rate, review and follow My Favorite Murder on the iHeartRadio, Apple Podcasts, Spotify or wherever you like to listen. See omnystudio.com/listener https://omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Speaker 00

  This is exactly right.

• 0:06Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ Sunny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his, with one exception, his mom.

• 0:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nevala, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 0:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 0:28Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+ for bundle subscribers. Terms apply.

• 0:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 0:33Speaker 03

  Do you ever feel like your computer is tracking you? Well, it's not. It's your browser following you. But not if you come back to Firefox. Firefox blocks the trackers automatically, doesn't follow you from site to site, and supports the ad blockers other browsers dropped. Plus, you can switch AI on or off when its intelligence is acting too artificial. And switching? Totally painless. Your bookmarks, passwords, and browsing history come right with you. Come back to Firefox. Visit Firefox.com.

• 1:04Georgia Hardstark?

  You know a favorite M-word? Magnesium.

• 1:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Like the kind that's in Dr. Teal's magnesium spray.

• 1:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Made from a proprietary blend of topical minerals, it's designed to relax and prepare you for a night of rest.

• 1:14Karen Kilgariff?

  If you need a reset after your day, make Dr. Teal's magnesium spray part of your nighttime routine.

• 1:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Generously spritz each foot before bed and you'll be all set. I've actually started doing this and I'm obsessed with magnesium. It does everything.

• 1:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Something like this is just like, it's simple, it's easy, and it actually works.

• 1:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Totally. For wellness you can feel, find Dr. Teal's magnesium spray online or in your local bath aisle. Goodbye.

• 1:36Speaker 04

  In New Orleans, truckers kept getting sideswiped the exact same way. When a man is found murdered under questionable circumstances related to these accidents, the rubber hits the road. And what the feds uncover is a complex scheme of staged wrecks, financial fraud, and a pair of conspiring lovers behind it. This is a story about fake accidents that led to real consequences. Listen to Over My Dead Body: Operation Sideswipe wherever you get your podcasts. Audible subscribers can binge all episodes early and ad-free right now. Join Audible in the Audible app or by subscribing on Apple Podcasts or Spotify.

• 2:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Hello and welcome.

• 2:31Georgia Hardstark?

  To my favorite murder.

• 2:32Karen Kilgariff?

  That's Georgia Hardstark.

• 2:33Georgia Hardstark?

  That's Karen Kilgariff.

• 2:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And we've got some surprises in store for you today.

• 2:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Slutty vacation nails.

• 2:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Hey. Oh, those are the longest I've ever seen your nails.

• 2:42Georgia Hardstark?

  They're not mine. They're like literally vacation nails that I'm obsessed with.

• 2:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Will you throw up those nails to your camera as we are on Netflix and show the world?

• 2:51Georgia Hardstark?

  They're Gel X and they just make you feel like a grown up.

• 2:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, they look really nice.

• 2:56Georgia Hardstark?

  My nails have always been like junior high school and now I'm like in my thirties, working at a law firm.

• 3:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God, congratulations.

• 3:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you.

• 3:03Karen Kilgariff?

  When'd you get that job?

• 3:04Georgia Hardstark?

  When I got my second nails.

• 3:06Karen Kilgariff?

  They came with the nails.

• 3:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 3:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Wow, because my nails are the manicure I gave myself at the last minute because I couldn't somehow get to the mani-pedi salon.

• 3:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Show your camera.

• 3:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, no, because it's, it's just dire because it now looks like a French manicure, but that's not how it started.

• 3:24Georgia Hardstark?

  That's how I like it.

• 3:25Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how kind of old. I also always immediately smudge my right thumb.

• 3:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Always.

• 3:29Karen Kilgariff?

  That's so irritating.

• 3:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Life is hard.

• 3:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Poor girl.

• 3:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 3:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Are you having any, since you've been back from your trip to Italy, which now that you're a travel influencer, I think we should discuss all of your opinions and likes and dislikes.

• 3:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Finally, thank you.

• 3:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Come with me. Is anything staying with you that you miss about being on that trip or like your Italian experience?

• 3:54Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what I miss, which was really nice, which probably gets old after a while, but it was only two weeks, is dressing for dinner.

• 4:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah.

• 4:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Because they have that period between the afternoon and the evening where nobody does anything. You take a nap and then you have to put on like a dress for dinner. You can't wear tennis shoes.

• 4:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:13Georgia Hardstark?

  And it just like made everything feel so much more special.

• 4:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:15Georgia Hardstark?

  I loved that.

• 4:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:17Georgia Hardstark?

  But yeah, it was incredible. It had really good, beautiful time. Milan is like incredible. I'd go back there immediately.

• 4:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:23Georgia Hardstark?

  We stayed. My mom texts me a thing of like, "Don't wear your Star of David." Again, she texts me those things if I've ever had a fucking piece of jewelry.

• 4:30Karen Kilgariff?

  She says that to you all the time.

• 4:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes. She said, "Don't wear your Star of David." Like, keep it low key that you're Jewish, as if that's not what I already do. But then we, we found out we were staying at a hotel where Mussolini had stayed before.

• 4:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 4:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So I was like, I can't tell her that.

• 4:44Karen Kilgariff?

  That you're like, "Look, I'm seeing their side of things." No, that's not good. But also, you can't get away from a city's history. You can't, you know, it's not your fault.

• 4:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 4:55Karen Kilgariff?

  That the really nice hotel was also his.

• 4:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Might be my fault.

• 4:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Was it?

• 4:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Lots of things are my fault in my mind.

• 5:01Karen Kilgariff?

  World War II, though? I don't think so. You can let yourself off the hook for that one. I mean, it must be a huge relief.

• 5:08Georgia Hardstark?

  It is. What's up with you?

• 5:10Karen Kilgariff?

  I've just been wearing a Star of David around, seeing what I can kick up. Uh, not much. You know, we went on vacation, obviously, you know, at the same time. But I did a staycation and truly just tried to do nothing. Literally lay on the couch and pull a blanket up to my chin like it was the middle of winter. Any chance I could.

• 5:28Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it. Did you binge Widows Bay?

• 5:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, yeah. And now I'm in the watching people react to how much they love Widows Bay on social media, which is such, like, it's becoming this new way that we all watch TV.

• 5:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 5:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Where it's just as satisfying for me to watch people get excited to go, here's what I think the Easter egg is.

• 5:46Georgia Hardstark?

  This shot was my favorite. I fucked the whole thing up, though. Here's the negative side of that. I watched a spoiler on accident and knew that last bit, that last exciting bit. I accidentally watched a fucking, like, it's the whole turning point of the show.

• 6:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, and you went in knowing it.

• 6:02Georgia Hardstark?

  When she goes about, you know, I was pregnant.

• 6:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 6:05Georgia Hardstark?

  I knew what happened. And at the beginning of that episode, before it even happened, I go, I get why that matters. Because I thought it was just like a regular, random scene that I was going to laugh at. It was the whole point of the fucking show.

• 6:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 6:16Georgia Hardstark?

  And I knew, and I was so bummed. Like, Vince gasped, and I wanted to gasp, too.

• 6:22Karen Kilgariff?

  But, and also, the danger of when we get all this stuff through social media, you can't control that someone's about to give you a spoiler, as we do on this show constantly.

• 6:31Georgia Hardstark?

  That wasn't a spoiler, and you should totally watch it, but...

• 6:33Karen Kilgariff?

  But I mean, like, you, there's a backwards way that, like, I always seem to end up consuming, like, a TV show the way I hate the most, which is you know all the big moments before you go in.

• 6:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 6:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Then you're kind of judging it.

• 6:45Georgia Hardstark?

  You don't even have to see them at that point. You know the story.

• 6:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Right. But I would argue that with Widows Bay, they're doing so much, they work so hard to Easter egg in storyline. I watched a woman lay out this whole... Idea and we will in our social media, we'll post her video and we will give her the full credit because it's a really brilliant thing she noticed, which is that time is all screwed up in Widows Bay.

• 7:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Like the calendar that has a car accident on it?

• 7:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. And then in her theory, she's like, actually, these three episodes all happened in one day, but you don't realize it. If you think about it, you can't tell when a thing is actually happening. You're not sure.

• 7:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 7:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And she introduced all these kind of doubts about, oh, that's right. And the time where he's got the Wolves calendar, but then he opens the month that they're in and it's the car accident.

• 7:31Georgia Hardstark?

  So random.

• 7:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Like, there's so many Easter eggs about, you assume, you think you know what's going on and how, and it's going to start like, it's-

• 7:39Georgia Hardstark?

  What's the comedian's name who plays the shaman? It's just like the best-

• 7:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, Chris Fleming.

• 7:43Georgia Hardstark?

  It's just the best, you know, five minutes of TV.

• 7:47Karen Kilgariff?

  It's so good.

• 7:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Chris Fleming. He's so perfect in it.

• 7:50Karen Kilgariff?

  It goes, "It's okay. Just drink it slow." He goes, "I just finished it."

• 7:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so fucking good. Okay, this is not, it should be a Widows Bay rewatch podcast.

• 8:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Just for the next four years, we turn it into-

• 8:04Georgia Hardstark?

  You have a true crime update?

• 8:05Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a true crime update and it's just plain good news, which when in the 10 years we've been doing this podcast, has that ever happened?

• 8:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Seriously.

• 8:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Rex Heuerman, the Gilgo Beach murderer, on Wednesday, June 17th, was sentenced to life in prison without the possibility of parole for the murders of Megan Waterman, Melissa Bartholomew, Amberlin Costello, Maureen Brainerd Barnes, Valerie Mack, Jessica Taylor, Sondra Cristia, and Karen Vergata. And he initially denied these charges and he was set to go to trial, but basically he changed his plea to guilty in April and now he is in jail. So-

• 8:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I'm glad that is over with and he can go rot in hell.

• 8:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. Wow. It's always strange when it ends and you know the reality and it is the big ghost, the big monster, the mysterious monster is just some horrible man.

• 8:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Some small little man, some coward.

• 8:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 8:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why I love cold cases. It's like, let's not make them this big, you know, powerful being. It's just some fucking dad from Long Island who sucks, you know?

• 9:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. Yeah.

• 9:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Not good. Okay. Should we get into it?

• 9:12Karen Kilgariff?

  You mean, talk about our network?

• 9:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Sure. Hey, we have a podcast network. It's called Exactly Right Media. Here are some headlines.

• 9:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's discuss it.

• 9:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Here are some headlines.

• 9:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Nope.

• 9:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Here are some highlights.

• 9:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's some highlights. This week on our podcast Bananas, Kurt and Scotty discuss whether all the water on earth has already been peed in. They talk about a World Cup trophy bong that landed a head shop in legal trouble and everything between.

• 9:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And then over on Ghosted, Roz is joined by comedian and Tarot queen, our friend, Lizzie Cooperman. They shuffle the cards while discussing yes, no, later manifestations, hermit crabs, and one lingering question: When will Roz become more famous?

• 9:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, we kind of have the answer to that.

• 9:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 9:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Because Roz just released her new audiobook. It is her memoir, and it's entitled, Peeing in an Empty Bottle and Other Glamorous Shenanigans of an Almost Famous Transgender Comedian on the Road. And that book is out now. It blends stories, obviously, from her cross-country comedy tour with exclusive stand-up and behind-the-scenes audio. So if you want to support Roz, she is an incredible stand-up comic, hilarious podcaster, we love her, obviously, member of our family here, but also just like an entertainer to beat the band.

• 10:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Truly.

• 10:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Her book is going to be great.

• 10:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Roz Hernandez. Find it. Then this week on Trust Me, Lola and Megan are joined by Dr. Christine Marie, Lola's mom, who was also the podcast's very first guest. She shares how she went undercover with the FBI to help bring down self-proclaimed prophet Sam Bateman. So if you watch Trust Me on Netflix, this is the woman we're talking about. And you can also watch the full video episode now at youtube.com/ExactlyRightMedia. Karen goes first.

• 10:53Karen Kilgariff?

  So my story today begins on March 1, 1778. Are you ready?

• 10:59Georgia Hardstark?

  No, so long ago.

• 11:00Karen Kilgariff?

  So long ago. We're talking about an area that I truly and literally know almost nothing about, except for this story. Which is the Revolutionary War era of America.

• 11:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Got it.

• 11:12Karen Kilgariff?

  I know that you can't correct me in any of these mistakes I'm about to make, right?

• 11:16Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 11:17Karen Kilgariff?

  That's why we do this podcast together. Again, my excuse is that I changed schools, 5th to 6th grade.

• 11:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's gotta be, yeah, that's hard.

• 11:24Karen Kilgariff?

  They learned about stuff like that in the 5th grade at my new school and in the 6th grade at my old school.

• 11:28Georgia Hardstark?

  You're preaching to the choir.

• 11:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 11:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Roman numerals? I was sick that day.

• 11:33Karen Kilgariff?

  All the presidents? Not my business.

• 11:36Georgia Hardstark?

  None of my business.

• 11:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Not really, never brought up to me.

• 11:38Georgia Hardstark?

  I didn't vote for them.

• 11:40Karen Kilgariff?

  I didn't get to see pictures of them all around the walls all year long. Okay, so March 1st, 1778, we are in Brookfield, Massachusetts, west of Worcester. And it's a snowy night around nine o'clock. Most of the locals in Brookfield are either at home, sitting in front of the fire, or they've already gotten into bed under their thick quilts and blankets because it's so cold outside.

• 12:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Cute.

• 12:04Karen Kilgariff?

  But a local, wealthy local businessman, 37-year-old Joshua Spooner, he's outside in the elements because he spent the last few hours at the local tavern. And now he's making the quarter-mile walk home down Brookfield's main road. It's dark outside, almost no moonlight. He's holding a lantern, because this is old-fashioned times, and that's required at night.

• 12:26Georgia Hardstark?

  So chuggy.

• 12:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? And he keeps saying, "Hello, hello." And for the beginning of his walk, he is with his friend, Dr. Jonathan King, who is the town's physician. The doctor splits off in the direction of his house when they come to the fork in the road. And then Joshua continues on by himself, eventually making it to his very stately two-story home, which is one of the nicest in Brookfield. He climbs a set of stone steps that take him from the street up onto his property. He unlatches his front gate, and then he heads back toward one of the back entrances of the house. He never makes it inside. Instead, Joshua Spooner's body will be discovered beaten, strangled, and stuffed down his well.

• 13:12Georgia Hardstark?

  What?

• 13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. This is the story of the murder of Joshua Spooner, which is one of the very first high-profile murder cases in America.

• 13:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Dude!

• 13:22Karen Kilgariff?

  1778.

• 13:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Get at that vintage murder.

• 13:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Happy 4th of July, everybody.

• 13:28Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 13:28Karen Kilgariff?

  While we are lighting off firecrackers and trying to dissociate, let's remember how this country started with extreme violence on a day-to-day basis.

• 13:38Georgia Hardstark?

  True crime isn't new.

• 13:39Karen Kilgariff?

  No. The main source of today's story is the research and writing of Deborah Novas, and the rest of the sources are in our show notes. So it's 1778, only two years have passed since the signing of the Declaration of Independence. We're in deep, early history for us. Kind of nauseating. It feels like you haven't eaten lunch, but you have to listen to the teacher keep talking.

• 14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 14:02Karen Kilgariff?

  The Revolutionary War has continued and will continue for five more years. It's been going for about two and a half, three. So the American Revolution is the backdrop for this whole case. The colonies are fiercely divided at this time between patriots and loyalists. And Joshua Spooner, his murder victim, was a supporter of the patriot cause. That cause is especially strong and well-supported in New England. At this point in the Revolutionary War, British leadership has been driven out of Massachusetts. The colony is now governed by revolutionary leaders. One of the highest-ranking officials is Joshua's stepbrother, a man named John Avery Jr. So the problem is Joshua has a prominent loyalist in his family, his father-in-law,

• 14:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Brigadier General Timothy Ruggles.

• 14:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Cute name.

• 14:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? Little Timmy Ruggles, Kins's father-in-law, his wife's Bathsheba's father. So Bathsheba Ruggles is the woman that Joshua's married, Joshua Spooner.

• 15:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Bring that name back.

• 15:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Bathsheba?

• 15:03Georgia Hardstark?

  You're a witch. You're immediately a witch.

• 15:05Karen Kilgariff?

  You're a witch or you're a Bible lady.

• 15:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Congratulations.

• 15:08Karen Kilgariff?

  It's like one of two things in this story.

• 15:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, witch.

• 15:11Karen Kilgariff?

  So before the revolution, Timothy Ruggles was a very powerful man. He held a bunch of important political posts in Massachusetts while under British rule. So when the revolution started, colonists began to embrace the patriot cause. Timothy Ruggles stays committed to the British Crown. Huge mistake in Worcester. So in the mid-1770s, Timothy Ruggles goes to New York to join the British Army. That's how much he commits.

• 15:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, literally, wrong side of history, brah.

• 15:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Read the fucking room, dude, of Massachusetts. It's a room as wide as Massachusetts. So, obviously, bad for his reputation in New England. So soon, Timothy Ruggles is considered one of the most despised political figures in revolutionary Massachusetts.

• 15:55Georgia Hardstark?

  Who would you compare him to these days, do you think?

• 15:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Donald Trump?

• 15:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Sounds right.

• 16:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So this was that a little too fast? So all of this has created serious tension in the Spooner household between Joshua and his wife Bathsheba. She is very close with her father Timothy Ruggles, and there are four Ruggles daughters, but Bathsheba has always been known to be her father's favorite. She's also suspected of sharing his political leanings. So when he leaves town, basically, to join with the British, Joshua forbids his wife from having any communication with her disgraced, turncoat father, and of course, she is devastated.

• 16:35Georgia Hardstark?

  You've got to discuss politics before you get married. Like, get on the same page before you get back then.

• 16:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, here's the real gossip about this story is that this relationship has never been good. It was basically engineered in 1766 as a political arrangement hashed out by their wealthy fathers. Timothy saw the political writing on the wall, and he knew his loyalist sympathies could someday cause harm to his beloved Bathsheba.

• 17:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And I was kidding about that because women don't get to choose their politics or their husbands back then. So discussing politics before you get married, deciding if you want to marry them or not is not an option. So I was not being serious.

• 17:15Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, no. It's not only not an option, it was literally like, how dare you? You couldn't suggest that. You would be backhanded and told to go make a sandwich.

• 17:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And they didn't have sliced bread, so imagine that.

• 17:27Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, back before the internet, they were still doing that? So when Bathsheba was around 20 years old, she was married off into the Spooner family who were wealthy Boston merchants because, basically, Timothy Ruggles knew his daughter would be protected socially and financially. But both Joshua and Bathsheba grew up incredibly privileged in aristocratic families. They both had generational power, and Bathsheba is roundly described to be exceptionally beautiful. Josh, meanwhile, is a successful lumberman. So there's, on paper, they were supposed to make a perfect couple, right? She brings all the gorgeousness, he's money. In reality, they're just a miserable pair because despite the gender norms dictating

• 18:10Karen Kilgariff?

  quiet, dutiful wives of the time, Bathsheba is headstrong, she's rash, and she is free-spirited. And she's said to have, quote, "passions that have never been properly restrained."

• 18:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Same.

• 18:23Karen Kilgariff?

  And, right? Meanwhile, Joshua, her husband, is described in old records as, quote, "frequently drunk."

• 18:31Georgia Hardstark?

  There you go.

• 18:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Right? He's also unfaithful to his wife. He is suspected of being physically abusive to his wife. And one of the fewest surviving direct quotes we have from either Spooner is one where Bathsheba describes her feelings about her husband with just two words, utter aversion.

• 18:50Georgia Hardstark?

  I should have said same after always drunk. Like, I would have been soaked. Do it again. Go again.

• 18:54Karen Kilgariff?

  And he is described in old records as, quote, "frequently drunk."

• 18:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Same.

• 19:02Karen Kilgariff?

  By 1777.

• 19:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Thank you. Thank you for indulging me.

• 19:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, it was fun. Yet, the couple has, as were the practices of the times, the couple has four children together. Bummer. Only three of those children survive to adulthood. And years later, one of the adult Spooner's sons will be heard calling his father, quote, "old bogus."

• 19:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Ooh.

• 19:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 19:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Which is like such an insult back then.

• 19:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Such an 18th century dig that historians say suggests his children did not respect him very much.

• 19:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:34Karen Kilgariff?

  So by 1777, it's been more than a decade into this miserable marriage, and the relationship is as bad as it will ever be. They detest each other, but on top of that, Bathsheba is struggling terribly personally. She's isolated because she has to hide at home because her father is such a pariah.

• 19:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 19:54Karen Kilgariff?

  But then, hiding at home, she's there with this miserable marriage, no support, you know?

• 19:59Georgia Hardstark?

  So many kids.

• 20:00Karen Kilgariff?

  So many kids. So, in March of that year, a stranger is passing by the front of the Spooner home, and it's a Continental soldier who's just completed a year of service in George Washington's army.

• 20:11Georgia Hardstark?

  And this is how Cinemax starts. This is the first Cinemax.

• 20:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Kick in those saxophones from the Revolutionary War.

• 20:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Do you have pictures? Was he hot?

• 20:20Karen Kilgariff?

  We don't have pictures of the Continental soldier I'm about to tell you about.

• 20:23Georgia Hardstark?

  But let's picture who? Jacob Elordi?

• 20:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Let me give you a little more information.

• 20:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 20:28Karen Kilgariff?

  And then we're gonna cast him.

• 20:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 20:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Because his name is Ezra Ross, and he's 16 years old.

• 20:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, everyone. How old is she? She's grown up?

• 20:38Karen Kilgariff?

  She's 32.

• 20:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, that's

• 20:40Karen Kilgariff?

  So, um, it is illegal. I'm not sure of colonial law. So as we go, you can maybe think about who could be cast as a 16-year-old. What do you know?

• 20:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Timothy Chalamet. I feel like he would be, he's cast in everything.

• 20:53Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 20:54Georgia Hardstark?

  He looks like a teenager.

• 20:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Very true. But like, how old are your nephews?

• 20:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, Mike is 16. Yeah, okay. Oh, gross.

• 21:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 21:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, gross.

• 21:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah. The reality of a 16-year-old.

• 21:04Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 21:05Karen Kilgariff?

  As opposed to a Chalamet.

• 21:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 21:07Karen Kilgariff?

  So, it's so funny. Okay, so he's on break between military duties, walking by. He was in a New Jersey Army encampment and he has to walk home to Ipswich, Massachusetts, which is essentially a 300-mile walk round trip.

• 21:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Bro, hitchhiking wasn't invented yet.

• 21:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Because the carts?

• 21:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 21:27Karen Kilgariff?

  It's too slow.

• 21:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 21:29Karen Kilgariff?

  They just knock you off. Um, also, it's the winter.

• 21:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 21:32Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's worst-case scenario for this young soldier. And to complicate it even more, he's dealing with the lingering effects of what was probably the flu that he caught at camp. So he's on a long winter walk, kind of getting over a bad flu. It's unclear whether he approached the Spooner House out of desperation or whether somebody in the Spooner House saw him passing and realized he needed help. Either way, the Spooners welcome Ezra into their home. The sick young man is put to bed, Bathsheba, begins to nurse him back to health, feeding him and tending to him.

• 22:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And what side is he on? He's not on the British side.

• 22:08Karen Kilgariff?

  He's the American side.

• 22:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Great, okay. So it's like, it's like forbidden for her too, because like her dad is super, the British.

• 22:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 22:15Georgia Hardstark?

  You know, she's like not, well, he's 16. Fuck, man, it just keeps getting ruined.

• 22:19Karen Kilgariff?

  It's, it's so ruined, but it also, it's like, it's a 16-year-old who's being asked to live like a man. So there is, that might help it a little more. That he is actually taking on the horrors and responsibilities of being in the army and fighting a war.

• 22:33Georgia Hardstark?

  If only he were 20.

• 22:35Karen Kilgariff?

  But he does have the llama curl at the front of his hair, the way all the 16-year-olds do these days. Okay.

• 22:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, go.

• 22:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, sorry.

• 22:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. Really popped that.

• 22:44Karen Kilgariff?

  It was so loud. Okay. Taking in soldiers who are walking long distances after military stints is not uncommon in Revolutionary War times. What sets this encounter apart is that the time it takes for Ezra, I almost said Timothy Chalamet, that time it takes for Ezra to recover, we don't know exactly how long it is, we can assume it was at least a couple of weeks because he has to, you know, fully recover and whatever. But in that time, 31-year-old Basheba Spooner and this adolescent soldier develop what a tasteful person would call a uniquely strong bond.

• 23:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, dear.

• 23:21Karen Kilgariff?

  But what we can all maybe in our Bravo minds

• 23:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 23:26Karen Kilgariff?

  assume was fucking. So the age difference, we don't want to be calling things affairs like that.

• 23:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 23:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:32Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, just let's not spend the time getting into all that discussion.

• 23:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 23:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Here's what we know. It's unclear if they start by having a physical affair. They have definitely started an emotional affair, though. And it's a secret, which makes it even hotter.

• 23:46Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 23:47Karen Kilgariff?

  No one has any idea it's going on, especially Joshua Spooner, who has actually developed his own friendship with Ezra, so.

• 23:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Ezra, playing both sides.

• 23:55Karen Kilgariff?

  That's right. And getting some soup while he's on his long journey home.

• 23:59Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 23:59Karen Kilgariff?

  Doing what he's got to do. At some point Ezra's health improves enough so that the Spooner send him back on the road to Ipswich, but he never forgets Basheba. Within months.

• 24:11Georgia Hardstark?

  That 31-year-old woman?

• 24:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Some hot MILF that's like, let me take care.

• 24:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:15Karen Kilgariff?

  He's like, I'll be seeing you within weeks.

• 24:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 24:18Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm sorry, within months.

• 24:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 24:19Karen Kilgariff?

  He's called back to military service, but then when he gets leave, he comes and visits the Spooners in Brookfield. So it's a little less than a year later now, January 1778, and Basheba has news for Ezra. On his next visit, he comes to see the Spooners and she pulls him aside and is like, I'm pregnant.

• 24:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 24:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh.

• 24:43Karen Kilgariff?

  I wanted to act that out.

• 24:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I loved it.

• 24:45Karen Kilgariff?

  She yanks him into the pantry and then has to push him back out because they have to act normal.

• 24:48Georgia Hardstark?

  I love it.

• 24:49Karen Kilgariff?

  I'm like, damn it. So it's assumed by historians that given her, like, on the record, utter aversion with her husband.

• 24:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 24:57Karen Kilgariff?

  That they weren't probably having sex and that probably Ezra is the father of this baby. Uh, Bathsheba is definitely panicked and writer Deborah Navas puts it this way, quote, divorces were all but impossible for women in revolutionary America and adulteresses were stripped to the waist and publicly whipped.

• 25:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 25:16Karen Kilgariff?

  So she is truly panicking.

• 25:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 25:19Karen Kilgariff?

  During one of Ezra's visits, Bathsheba asks him to poison her husband with aqua fortis, or also known as nitric acid. It's an extremely corrosive acid used to dissolve tough materials like metal. And unlike other poisons from these old stories like arsenic, um, aqua fortis has an incredibly strong and very terrible taste.

• 25:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 25:42Karen Kilgariff?

  So it's a, it's a bad idea to use to begin with. But Ezra is just a sophomore in love with having sex with an old lady, so he does it. He's like, sounds good to me.

• 25:52Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh dear.

• 25:53Karen Kilgariff?

  He poisons Joshua's drink. So problem is when Joshua takes a sip of that drink, it's literally like who put gasoline in my, in my tea.

• 26:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 26:02Karen Kilgariff?

  He immediately tastes the poison, spits out the mouthful, dumps the drink. So then basically for the rest of Ezra's stay, he keeps trying to poison Joshua and can't get it done.

• 26:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, folly.

• 26:15Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, right? The hilarious back and forth of all the things that Ezra has to spit out and be like, I, this taste is driving me crazy. So basically by the end Ezra gets cold feet about this whole scheme. His visit ends without a poisoning taking place and he leaves Bathsheba to carry out that plan for herself.

• 26:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Mm-hmm. Buying furniture is a lot of pressure. It has to look good, feel good, and hold up to everyday life.

• 26:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Take it from me, a bad couch can ruin your life.

• 26:43Georgia Hardstark?

  That's why Article focuses on stylish, high-quality pieces designed to last.

• 26:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Article makes it effortless to create a stylish, long-lasting home at an unbeatable price.

• 26:52Georgia Hardstark?

  They take great care in curating their collection, focusing on pieces that stand the test of time. There's no filler. Every item is chosen for its craftsmanship, design, and lasting value.

• 27:02Karen Kilgariff?

  And with Article's 30-day satisfaction guarantee, you can shop with confidence, knowing that if you're not completely in love with your new furniture, you can easily return it. Man, there was nothing I loved more than when I was broke and I could still buy furniture that I needed at Article. It wasn't cheap-looking. It's like I was investing in these pieces that were comparatively inexpensive, and I was like finishing rooms. I was like getting the kitchen table that was like bringing the whole thing together. And it was such an incredible thing because I never got to do that before. I love that about Article.

• 27:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Article is offering our listeners $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 27:39Karen Kilgariff?

  To claim, visit article.com/murder, and the discount will be automatically applied at checkout.

• 27:43Georgia Hardstark?

  That's article.com/murder for $50 off your first purchase of $100 or more.

• 27:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 27:50Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series, Phony, is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.

• 27:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Sonny's life is pretty great, until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception: his mom.

• 28:02Georgia Hardstark?

  To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives. But for Sonny, he knows something is off.

• 28:08Karen Kilgariff?

  As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.

• 28:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this all in his head, or is there really an imposter in his house?

• 28:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five-time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nevola, this small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 28:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 28:28Karen Kilgariff?

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• 28:38Georgia Hardstark?

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• 28:43Karen Kilgariff?

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• 28:50Georgia Hardstark?

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• 28:56Karen Kilgariff?

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• 29:04Georgia Hardstark?

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• 29:09Karen Kilgariff?

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• 29:20Georgia Hardstark?

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• 29:24Karen Kilgariff?

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• 29:26Georgia Hardstark?

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• 29:30Karen Kilgariff?

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• 29:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 29:37Karen Kilgariff?

  So a few weeks later, February of 1778, Joshua is away on a business trip. Bashiba spots two British soldiers passing by the front of the house. They are Private William Brooks, who's in his late 20s, and Sergeant James Buchanan, who is in his mid-30s.

• 29:53Georgia Hardstark?

  OK, so we're age-appropriate now.

• 29:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Now, yes, we're getting into some adults, involving adults. Bashiba sends out one of her workers, basically, to intercept them and offer them a place to sleep and food to eat. And they're very grateful to come inside. And when they do, Bashiba learns they're British deserters who are trying to get home by way of Canada. So basically, they're just trying to escape America alive to get home. So sensing her opportunity, Bashiba offers them clothing and cash if they kill her husband when he comes back from his business trip. Some sources say she offers them $1,000,

• 30:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 30:34Karen Kilgariff?

  which in today's money, from 1778 to 2026.

• 30:39Georgia Hardstark?

  $12,000?

• 30:40Karen Kilgariff?

  $25,000. That's a lot of money.

• 30:43Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a lot of money.

• 30:44Karen Kilgariff?

  So they accept. And when they do, Bashiba writes to Ezra. Hey, when you graduate from high school, come back here because the plan is afoot.

• 30:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay.

• 30:55Karen Kilgariff?

  So by the time Joshua Spooner gets back from his business trip to Brookfield, these British soldiers have been staying in their house, in the Spooner house, for more than a week, sleeping in nice beds, eating great food whenever they want, running up an enormous tab at the local tavern under Joshua Spooner's name.

• 31:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Shit.

• 31:13Karen Kilgariff?

  The whole nine. Joshua finds this out. He's irate at his wife for letting these British soldiers into their home. He kicks them out. But William and James don't go anywhere. They just hang around town lurking, laying low, waiting for the opportunity to strike. And then on February 28th, Ezra Ross quietly arrives back in Brookfield and joins up with the two British soldiers.

• 31:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh.

• 31:36Karen Kilgariff?

  This, and now we're back to the day this all started, which is the cold, dark night of March 1st. And 37-year-old Joshua Spooner, just arriving from home, from the tavern, around nine o'clock that night. He goes onto his property. He approaches the back entrance, and that's where Ezra, William, and James appear out of the darkness and ambush him. They beat him and they strangle him to death.

• 31:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Jesus.

• 32:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Then they carry his body over to the well and they throw him down into it headfirst. And the idea is that because Joshua has a reputation for heavy drinking, people will think he accidentally stumbled and fell into the well.

• 32:14Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sorry, ligature marks from a fall?

• 32:16Karen Kilgariff?

  It just, all of it.

• 32:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:18Karen Kilgariff?

  In our forensic files, know-how these days. It's like, you rubes from the Revolutionary War. You don't know how to murder.

• 32:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 32:25Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, I love the idea of like, the odds of a drunk person stumbling and falling into a hole smaller than

• 32:32Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 32:33Karen Kilgariff?

  really their own shoulders.

• 32:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 32:35Karen Kilgariff?

  Probably.

• 32:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Whoa, whoa, whoa.

• 32:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Or the same size. Don't go toward the hole. You're falling. Okay, so before they do drop Joshua's body into the well, they take his fancy watch, his ring, his silver shoe buckles, which have his initials engraved on them and like, basically keep it for themselves.

• 32:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 32:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Then, when they're done, they go into the house where Basheba Spooner is waiting. James Buchanan will later testify that she seemed, quote, utterly confused, which could imply a state of shock, or as some historians have wondered, the throes of an undiagnosed mental health crisis. That's basically kind of like at its apex with this, you know, horrible event. She gives the men a thick stack of cash as well as a few pieces of clothing.

• 33:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Not so confused that she doesn't pay them off from killing her husband.

• 33:23Karen Kilgariff?

  She's not catatonic. Yeah, exactly. She's like, I can't deal with this. Nine, 10, that's it for you. And she also gives them clothes from Joshua's closet. So she's in on the, on the cover up.

• 33:36Georgia Hardstark?

  So confusing.

• 33:37Karen Kilgariff?

  You can take his vest and his boots. At around 11 o'clock, Ezra, William and James, all wearing Joshua's clothes, riding his horses, or the Spooner's horses, skip town, head 20 miles out toward, of course, the star of this show, Worcester. They arrive at an inn around 4 a.m. Of course, the innkeepers immediately sense something's off.

• 34:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, don't go at 4 a.m. Wait till 9 in the morning.

• 34:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Middle of the night with big silver buckles on your fucking shoes.

• 34:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And like clothes that don't fit you correctly. What's happening?

• 34:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Streaks of mud on your cheeks. Yeah. And of course, acting very, very strangely.

• 34:13Georgia Hardstark?

  I was gonna say paying in cash, but they didn't have any other way to pay back then.

• 34:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Back then, there's no cards, no gift cards, no tabs. Paying in, ugh, dirty, dirty cash.

• 34:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, I guess gold. Do they pay in gold?

• 34:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, but I think that would count as cash. It wouldn't stand out as much. So writer Deborah Nova suggests that all of these actors in this murder are dealing with their guilt and their regret, and then it's just coming out in their own ways. So Ezra is despondent. He refuses to give the innkeepers his name. He immediately isolates himself in a bedroom. Georgia just did the funniest eye roll to me, like she hates Ezra so much.

• 34:53Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm sorry. Of course he does. Like, you fucking did the crime. And now, like, it doesn't matter how horrible you feel afterwards.

• 35:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, you got all high on like being in the murder group.

• 35:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 35:05Karen Kilgariff?

  And then, yeah.

• 35:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, they could have probably done it without you, bro. But you wanted to prove your 16-year-old ass to your fucking 31-year-old lover.

• 35:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes. He had a hot MILF lover. He was willing to go the distance. But now he's despondent. And listener, we're just telling you, that's how it always goes.

• 35:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 35:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Whether it's murder or just taking people to weddings.

• 35:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 35:25Karen Kilgariff?

  It's on your permanent record. That nerd and you spending time with them.

• 35:29Georgia Hardstark?

  He's in the photos.

• 35:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Your family talks about it. Okay. William and James, on the other hand, immediately go to the Inns Tavern by alcohol and just start drinking their way into the early daylight hours.

• 35:40Georgia Hardstark?

  That's the way to deal with your regret.

• 35:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Except for.

• 35:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Like an adult.

• 35:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Except for, they wear the silver shoe buckles and the jewelry and the clothing, so they couldn't be drawing more attention to themselves as they're trying to have a nice escape from reality drink. So, the average person in the colonies would just never have the wealth to afford silver shoe buckles with their own engraved initials on them, or whatever. Especially not a pair of British deserters, which I'm sure is kind of pretty obvious right away. So by the afternoon, the men have raised so much suspicion, the authorities are notified. Meanwhile, back in Brookfield, there's already a swirl of suspicion around Bathsheba because she, of course, the very next day had morning visitors. Because she's a lady of the, you know, of the elite. And when they show up and ask where Joshua is, she just burst into tears.

• 36:28Karen Kilgariff?

  So they're just kind of like, are you okay? And they start looking for him and they find his body in the well.

• 36:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 36:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Ladies who were just there for some nice tea and tiny sandwiches, and suddenly they're like, we just found your husband dead.

• 36:40Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh my god. They're like, is mercury in retrograde or what?

• 36:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Or what?

• 36:44Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm having a bad day.

• 36:45Karen Kilgariff?

  So Joshua's body is pulled from the well. Dr. Jonathan King, his friend who was walking home with him the night before from the tavern. He shows up to examine the corpse and he notes the signs of strangulation and injuries consistent with being beaten. He testifies later that Joshua hadn't seemed all that drunk when they left the tavern and walked home together. Pretty crucial element to the story. And that's, of course, in direct contrast to the idea that Joshua was so drunk that he walked in big circles and fell down a well, almost impossible. Unless he sat down and then started singing and maybe fell backwards. But wouldn't you just kind of fold like that and stop?

• 37:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And then start screaming, "Get me out of here."

• 37:25Karen Kilgariff?

  I don't know. So less than 24 hours after Joshua Spooner's murder, his wife, Bathsheba, the young soldier, Ezra Ross, Private William Brooks, and Sergeant James Buchanan have all been arrested as suspects in his murder. The joint trial begins. So now you're on trial with two strangers and your teenage lover.

• 37:43Georgia Hardstark?

  God, that's quick.

• 37:45Karen Kilgariff?

  That begins late April 1778. It becomes, of course, a huge sensation. First of all, it's the wealth, the scandal, the violence at play, but it truly is one of the first times, like, in the official newborn, two-year-old America, there has been a murder trial. The prosecution is led by a man named Robert Treat Payne. He's one of the signees of the Declaration of Independence.

• 38:08Georgia Hardstark?

  I knew that.

• 38:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Maybe you've heard of it. Ask your friend Nicolas Cage if you don't know. And then the defense is led by a man named Levi Lincoln, no relation, but he would later serve as President Thomas Jefferson's Attorney General. So it's not only one of the first Capitol murder cases tried in the United States, but because Levi Lincoln will attempt to paint Bathsheba Spooner as mentally unwell at the time of the murder, it's also believed to be one of the first times the insanity defense is used.

• 38:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Interesting.

• 38:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Given the patriotic backdrop of Massachusetts at the time, the involvement of two British soldiers and the infamy of Bathsheba's loyalist father makes this trial inherently political. And of course, everybody has big opinions about it. Levi Lincoln urges the jurors to look past their, quote, "political feelings," but the evidence is overwhelming. The trial quickly ends, and four guilty verdicts are turned in. All of them are sentenced to death, and they're scheduled to hang on June 4, 1778.

• 39:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And this is when Bathsheba begs the court to delay her execution to spare the life of her unborn child.

• 39:14Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 39:15Karen Kilgariff?

  The gallery gasps, "That's not true. I put that in. I don't know when she told them or how. Could have been in a letter."

• 39:22Georgia Hardstark?

  I bet there was a gasp somewhere.

• 39:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I bet someone gasped, even if it was just-

• 39:25Georgia Hardstark?

  Someone, somewhere.

• 39:26Karen Kilgariff?

  The secretary of the person that opened that letter.

• 39:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 39:29Karen Kilgariff?

  So, at the time, common law protects fetuses if there have been signs of what they used to call "the quickening," which is basically when the mother can feel-

• 39:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 39:38Karen Kilgariff?

  -the baby. It happens usually between the fourth and fifth month of pregnancy. So, if she really did get pregnant sometime in January, which is when she told Ezra that she was pregnant, this would put her in the correct timeframe. And there are theories that Bathsheba is lying about being pregnant just to buy herself time. But either way, it works. The execution date gets pushed to July 2nd, and then in the interim, she is examined. And she's examined many times to determine whether she's pregnant by a panel of midwives that the court puts together.

• 40:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 40:10Karen Kilgariff?

  It is as bad as you are anticipating, humiliating, also needlessly painful. It's as gross as you can think of it to be, and it's described by one contemporary as, quote, "indecent and cruel."

• 40:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 40:25Karen Kilgariff?

  In the end, the panel concludes that she is not pregnant, but Bathsheba appeals, and she hires her own midwife to conduct her own exam, and then that midwife concludes she is pregnant. So, the court sides with their own panel, surprisingly? No, it's been like this all along. And they reject Bathsheba's pregnancy claims. So, on July 2nd, 1788, 17-year-old Ezra Ross, 27-year-old William Brooks, 36-year-old James Buchanan, and 32-year-old Bathsheba Ruggles Spooner are brought to the gallows. Bathsheba demands that they perform an autopsy on her body-

• 41:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Whoa.

• 41:02Karen Kilgariff?

  -after she is hanged to prove the existence of her unborn child.

• 41:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Fuck.

• 41:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is like, "I'll be looking down at all of you as you martyr me."

• 41:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 41:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, so outside of that discussion, which I imagined to happen in a darkened tunnel-

• 41:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:16Karen Kilgariff?

  -but probably didn't.

• 41:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 41:17Karen Kilgariff?

  5,000 people have gathered to watch this hanging.

• 41:20Georgia Hardstark?

  You guys.

• 41:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 41:22Georgia Hardstark?

  Guys.

• 41:23Karen Kilgariff?

  A small town has gathered.

• 41:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God.

• 41:25Karen Kilgariff?

  Which is funny because that, what was that at the beginning? Was that Widows Bay at the beginning when all the people are there and they're cheering for the hanging? Or is that just another movie I was watching?

• 41:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Wuthering Heights.

• 41:35Karen Kilgariff?

  It was Wuthering Heights.

• 41:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Molly has dialed in on Karen's brain.

• 41:42Karen Kilgariff?

  She knows. Well, because we've been talking about Wuthering Heights and I mistakenly thought that Molly, like, loved it. And so then we watched it to be like, other people hate it, but Molly seems to love it. Let's check it out. And then we were like, oh, this is good. We liked it. Yeah, I really liked it. People love their books.

• 41:59Georgia Hardstark?

  They really do.

• 42:00Karen Kilgariff?

  The children love the books. Okay, so outside, 5,000 people gather to watch this hanging. The man who signs the execution warrant is John Avery Jr., who was Joshua's stepbrother. Testimony from the execution describes the onset of, quote, "one of the most terrified thunderstorms that occurred within the memory of anyone living," end quote. And they say that that storm, quote, "came up and darkened the heavens conspiring to produce a scene of most dreadful horror." So as they're walking to the gallows, black cloud rolls in.

• 42:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, my God. God is pissed.

• 42:37Karen Kilgariff?

  Shortly after the executions, an autopsy is performed on Bathsheba's body and the physician finds a, quote, "perfect male fetus of the growth of five months." Completely correct.

• 42:49Georgia Hardstark?

  That's...

• 42:50Karen Kilgariff?

  The panel lied.

• 42:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Damn.

• 42:52Karen Kilgariff?

  The panel lied.

• 42:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Oof.

• 42:54Karen Kilgariff?

  The clouds told you that you wouldn't listen. Okay. When word gets out that Massachusetts has just executed a pregnant woman, the public is horrified.

• 43:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow.

• 43:04Karen Kilgariff?

  And over time...

• 43:05Georgia Hardstark?

  This is a plot twist I did not see coming.

• 43:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 43:07Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 43:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Because you're kind of like, oh, she's bad. She's bad.

• 43:09Georgia Hardstark?

  This is the crime. They killed him. And here's the execution. It's like, but wait.

• 43:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, but hold on one second. So the real controversy most associated with this case over, like, history, because in the beginning, of course, it was the usual moralizing about the risks of adultery and evil women having their way and being free spirited and loud and all the things that are so terrible.

• 43:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Nothing about sexually abusing a child, but don't worry.

• 43:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, that is very seen. The risks of adultery and evil women using dumb men. But it's actually lived on as a cautionary tale about how the biases around politics and gender seep into the justice system. The system.

• 43:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Huh.

• 43:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Bashiva herself has increasingly been treated with more and more empathy as the years pass and sympathy, I should say, but no one doubts she wanted her husband dead or that she conspired to kill him, but contemporary historians mull over the extreme circumstances of her life that led up to the crime. Her marriage was stifling and it likely involved domestic abuse. The double standard in how women who commit adultery are treated versus the men who commit adultery. Not to mention Bashiva's grief around being basically cut off from her father, him being going from being an incredibly respected man to an all out pariah and then that reverberating into her life, people judging her and her being socially isolated because of all that.

• 44:28Karen Kilgariff?

  In the end, the Spooner's children end up being adopted by relatives and it seems they most likely escape all the notoriety that is around this case. A few years after his daughter's execution, Bashiva's father Timothy Ruggles dies in exile in Canada in his early 80s. And the well that they put Joshua Spooner's body into is actually still standing in Brookfield, Massachusetts, according to

• 44:51Georgia Hardstark?

  No way.

• 44:52Karen Kilgariff?

  The Brookfield Historical Commission, although they say it's obscured by thick poison ivy much of the year, AKA, stay the fuck away from the well. And that is the story of the first murder in America, the murder of Joshua Spooner.

• 45:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Wow. That's crazy. That's heavy. Good job.

• 45:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 45:13Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a great one for the Fourth of July.

• 45:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Right?

• 45:16Georgia Hardstark?

  It's coming up.

• 45:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Do your homework, everybody.

• 45:18Georgia Hardstark?

  They don't tell you this shit in school.

• 45:22Georgia Hardstark?

  The Hulu original series Phony is now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney+.

• 45:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Sonny's life is pretty great until he wakes up from a car accident to a world that looks exactly like his with one exception, his mom.

• 45:34Georgia Hardstark?

  To everyone else, she's the same Ellen they've known their whole lives, but for Sonny, he knows something is off.

• 45:40Karen Kilgariff?

  As his relationship with his mother begins to crack in unsettling ways, he's forced to question what happens when the perfect mom becomes a perfect stranger.

• 45:47Georgia Hardstark?

  Is this all in his head or is there really an imposter in his house?

• 45:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Starring five time Emmy nominee Connie Britton and Sam Nivola, this Small town is hiding the mother of all mysteries just beneath the surface.

• 45:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Watch the Hulu original series, Phony.

• 46:00Karen Kilgariff?

  Now streaming on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus for bundle subscribers. Terms apply. Goodbye.

• 46:06Georgia Hardstark?

  As an adult, making dinner isn't the hard part.

• 46:09Karen Kilgariff?

  The hard part is deciding what to make every single night for the rest of your life.

• 46:12Georgia Hardstark?

  But with Hungry Root, you can make that decision a whole lot easier.

• 46:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Hungry Root is like having your own personal shopper and nutritionist all wrapped up into one. They'll take care of weekly grocery shopping and recommend groceries and meals tailored to you.

• 46:25Georgia Hardstark?

  When you tell them about your goals and preferences, they fill your cart with personalized recommendations. And those recommendations get smarter as Hungry Root learns more about what you did or didn't like.

• 46:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Most of Hungry Root's recipes can be made in just 15 minutes or less. I mean, of course, it's always great to have delicious and very healthy groceries delivered to your house, which they can do, but I love the fact that Hungry Root will also just make you dinner so you can have it sitting there waiting. They make a classic chicken, corn, and Mexican rice bowl, and they have all kinds of variations on those themes. So that's one that I love to reach for. And all these options so you're getting really healthy meals.

• 47:01Georgia Hardstark?

  For a limited time, get 40% off your first order plus get a free item in every box for life.

• 47:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Go to hungryroot.com/mfm and use code MFM.

• 47:10Georgia Hardstark?

  That's hungryroot.com/mfm, code MFM, to get 40% off your first box and a free item of your choice for life. Goodbye. Most big goals are really just a bunch of small decisions made over time.

• 47:22Karen Kilgariff?

  And while that's incredibly annoying, it's also true.

• 47:25Georgia Hardstark?

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• 47:29Karen Kilgariff?

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• 47:34Georgia Hardstark?

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• 47:37Karen Kilgariff?

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• 47:41Georgia Hardstark?

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• 47:48Karen Kilgariff?

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• 47:55Georgia Hardstark?

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• 48:01Karen Kilgariff?

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• 48:08Georgia Hardstark?

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• 48:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Acorns Advisors LLC, an SEC-registered investment advisor. View important disclosures at acorns.com/mfm.

• 48:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 48:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Cozy season is nearly upon us.

• 48:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That means crisp weather and soft layers.

• 48:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Prepare accordingly with fall staples from Bombas.

• 48:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Bombas has your favorite footwear for fall, including new suede moccasins with cushy soles, shearling lining, and water-resistant suede, plus soft slippers, slides, and booties.

• 48:40Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a Bombas sock for pretty much any fall occasion, from warm merino wool blends to sweat-wicking sport socks, and dressier options for weddings.

• 48:48Georgia Hardstark?

  And for every Bombas item purchased, they donated an essential clothing item to someone facing housing insecurity, with more than 200 million items donated so far. Okay, so when fall comes around, I have a pair of the Bombas booties pretty much in every room, so I can grab them when my feet inevitably become freezing, which they are constantly. And they're so comfy, you can wear them around the house, I wear them to bed, and they just make everything feel a little cozier.

• 49:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to Bombas.com/MFM and use code MFM for 20% off your first purchase.

• 49:20Georgia Hardstark?

  That's B-O-M-B-A-S dot com slash MFM, code MFM at checkout.

• 49:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 49:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Mine is about 100 years later, only.

• 49:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 49:33Georgia Hardstark?

  A little later, I think right after the Civil War. When did the Civil War end, Molly? Because I might be lying.

• 49:40Karen Kilgariff?

  1853?

• 49:44Georgia Hardstark?

  Six?

• 49:44Karen Kilgariff?

  1865.

• 49:46Georgia Hardstark?

  We were both right. So.

• 49:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Should we get our high school diplomas again?

• 49:52Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 49:54Karen Kilgariff?

  On the show?

• 49:56Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't want to take that test in front of everyone. We're gonna fucking fail. Are you kidding me? That'd be humiliating. It's a fan cult video of us trying to pass the GED, get our GED? No. Rather talk about my modeling photos.

• 50:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on. Oh, my God, the people love the fucking modeling photos. We have to talk about that. People are going crazy for that entire thing.

• 50:16Georgia Hardstark?

  I can't.

• 50:17Karen Kilgariff?

  They've really met you at that vulnerability that you revealed for them. It's really nice.

• 50:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I appreciate that. That is nice. So here we go. We're getting into the country's 250th anniversary, as you know.

• 50:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Right now, definitely.

• 50:29Georgia Hardstark?

  Now, we're gonna go back to the centennial, which is 1876, and we're gonna be in Kentucky.

• 50:36Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 50:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Today's story is an unexplained phenomenon that's straight out of an episode of Bananas. Weird news.

• 50:43Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 50:43Georgia Hardstark?

  And this one is in the genre of weird stuff falling from the sky.

• 50:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 50:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Like when I covered the Oakville blobs in episode 429 where unidentified goo fell out of the sky in the 80s in Washington State. But today, in our story, there's a bit more progress made in identifying the stuff that actually fell from the sky.

• 51:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, good.

• 51:01Georgia Hardstark?

  It's not as big of a mystery. This is the story of the Kentucky Meat Shower.

• 51:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I've heard of this. Oh, no.

• 51:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Meat shower.

• 51:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Meat shower.

• 51:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's meditate on meat shower.

• 51:14Karen Kilgariff?

  You're just out in a Kentucky field.

• 51:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep.

• 51:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Roaming through hip-high grass.

• 51:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 51:20Karen Kilgariff?

  And loving life.

• 51:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And then splat.

• 51:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Boom, right on your face. There's a prime rib.

• 51:27Georgia Hardstark?

  The main sources for the story are articles from Scientific America and Atlas Obscura, and the rest of the sources can be found in our show notes.

• 51:34Karen Kilgariff?

  And Cook's Illustrated.

• 51:36Georgia Hardstark?

  And Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs. So it's March 3rd, 1876, and we're in Olympian Springs, Kentucky. It's a small rural community in Bath County, about 50 miles east of Lexington, Kentucky.

• 51:50Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 51:51Georgia Hardstark?

  A woman named Rebecca Crouch is in the front yard of her family farm making soap, as you had to do back then.

• 51:58Karen Kilgariff?

  Mixing some lye with some tallow.

• 52:00Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. Which is a time and labor-intensive chore done by boiling rendered animal fat on an open fire and combining it with lye.

• 52:08Karen Kilgariff?

  How do you think I used to spend my summers?

• 52:10Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right, you're a farm girl.

• 52:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Country girl.

• 52:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Have you read the book, Yesteryear, yet?

• 52:15Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 52:16Georgia Hardstark?

  It's great. You should read it.

• 52:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 52:17Georgia Hardstark?

  But there's a soap-making scene in it. That's all I know about it.

• 52:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Is it sexy?

• 52:21Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 52:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay, forget it.

• 52:23Georgia Hardstark?

  Very not sexy. It's about a trad wife blogger who gets taken back into the time when she would have to actually work as a trad, like had to do the things, like make soap. Like, and make bread fresh instead, and like...

• 52:36Karen Kilgariff?

  That's genius.

• 52:37Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so good. Yesteryear, it's getting made into a movie. It's like...

• 52:40Karen Kilgariff?

  That's hilarious. Okay.

• 52:42Georgia Hardstark?

  So as Mrs. Crouch is working, she begins to see what she'll later describe as a substance that looks a bit like snowflakes falling out of the sky.

• 52:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, snowflakes is fine.

• 52:53Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so fun.

• 52:53Karen Kilgariff?

  That's no big deal.

• 52:54Georgia Hardstark?

  But it's sunny and warm out. There's no snow. This isn't snowflakes. It's a cloudless day. And some of the flakes are very big. She describes them as being, quote, "as long as my hand and about half an inch wide." So, well, as long as my hand, the big ones, and like half an inch wide.

• 53:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 53:12Georgia Hardstark?

  So, take some big pieces of... It's meat. I'm sorry, it's meat. I already... Spoiler, it's fucking meat.

• 53:17Karen Kilgariff?

  It's meat. Meat flakes.

• 53:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Meat flakes. Um, oh, there's a really great drawing of the whole thing. If you just don't have the imagination for it.

• 53:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 53:26Georgia Hardstark?

  I love this so much.

• 53:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's take a look.

• 53:30Georgia Hardstark?

  The artist is James Fostike.

• 53:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Brilliant.

• 53:33Georgia Hardstark?

  And it's just...

• 53:33Karen Kilgariff?

  James Fostike, you sure can draw gristle. I don't like the look of those meat clumps that are falling on her.

• 53:39Georgia Hardstark?

  It looks like a children's book.

• 53:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 53:41Georgia Hardstark?

  So if you're watching on Netflix, you can see this. If you're not, you should be. It's good. So as everything gathers on her yard and she inspects it further, Mrs. Crouch realizes that they look not unlike the stuff she's making her soap out of: animal flesh. Like meats or bits of fatty connective tissue. She said, quote, "It looked gristly, as if it had been torn from the throat of some animal."

• 54:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Good lord.

• 54:05Georgia Hardstark?

  End quote. The Crouch family cat and dog are fucking stoked. They come a-running, and they start going to town.

• 54:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Do we know the names of those pets?

• 54:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, no, but let's name them now for history's sake. Snowflake.

• 54:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Snowflake and...

• 54:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Gristle.

• 54:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Petey.

• 54:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Gristle.

• 54:23Karen Kilgariff?

  I had a friend whose dog was named Gristle.

• 54:25Georgia Hardstark?

  That's a great name for a dog that I just made up.

• 54:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Or was it in like a movie?

• 54:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Probably both.

• 54:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 54:29Georgia Hardstark?

  So they're losing their minds eating all of this. The family hogs and chickens get in on the action, too, and eat a lot of what was falling.

• 54:36Karen Kilgariff?

  And cannibalize themselves?

• 54:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, we don't know exactly what the animal is, so...

• 54:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Okay. It's human meat.

• 54:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. Oh, it's not cannibalism, it's human.

• 54:46Karen Kilgariff?

  The chickens are like, finally, we get our say.

• 54:49Georgia Hardstark?

  I've been feeding the crows freeze-ried chicken hearts.

• 54:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 54:53Georgia Hardstark?

  Which feels bad, but they love it.

• 54:55Karen Kilgariff?

  They're gonna take over. They're gonna take the keys to your home.

• 54:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Fine.

• 55:01Karen Kilgariff?

  They can.

• 55:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, a few days later, just by the by, the dog does get a bit sick, but we don't know if it's connected. And it doesn't seem like any of the other animals do either, so.

• 55:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Right, because the dog ran over and bit, like, ate some gristle, and then he ran over there and ate a big cow pie.

• 55:15Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly.

• 55:16Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 55:16Georgia Hardstark?

  So in all, about 200 pounds of this meat-like substance falls for about a minute.

• 55:23Karen Kilgariff?

  A grown man's worth.

• 55:26Georgia Hardstark?

  So true. Oh, the sound, the slop.

• 55:30Karen Kilgariff?

  And just one lady trying to make some soap.

• 55:32Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck? It seems like this event is pretty much limited to the area around Mrs. Crouch's house. And she says that the meat smells fresh when it had just fallen, but throughout the day, it starts to go off. And by the next day, the little flakes are all dried out. So it does what meat does. The event attracts national media attention, and several samples are saved. One is sent to Louisville for analysis, while another is sent to Washington DC. Also, a correspondent for the New York Herald goes to visit the Crouch farm. This reporter goes all around town interviewing people about the phenomenon, asking if Mrs. Crouch is full of shit, basically.

• 56:09Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, she's full of shit.

• 56:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, but no, everyone is like, this is not a woman who, like, she's making soap. She doesn't have a lot of time for joking around and, like, pranks.

• 56:16Karen Kilgariff?

  She handles lies.

• 56:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:18Karen Kilgariff?

  With no gloves.

• 56:19Georgia Hardstark?

  She's a fucking farmer, like, she's not making shit up.

• 56:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, do not even.

• 56:24Georgia Hardstark?

  And while there is some investigation going on in the article, it does seem like a lot of it is just a reporter making fun of the members of this very rural community. He's kind of a dick about it. And he's probably pissed that he got sent all the way out there.

• 56:35Karen Kilgariff?

  So what are you saying, like, people are kind of dumb, or?

• 56:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 56:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 56:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Or he's making stuff up, because some of the conversations in the article are just, don't seem like conversations people have, but, you know. It was the 1870s, so what do I know?

• 56:48Karen Kilgariff?

  Fill it up, fill up that article, Rusty.

• 56:51Georgia Hardstark?

  Exactly, we need 2,000 words. So he bargains with a railroad laborer named Jimmy Welsh to eat a dollar's worth of the meat.

• 56:59Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 57:00Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, just so he could get some fucking color for his article.

• 57:02Karen Kilgariff?

  So he's saying, if you eat this lump of gristle, I will pay you a dollar.

• 57:06Georgia Hardstark?

  That fell how many days ago?

• 57:08Karen Kilgariff?

  And also, sorry, but can we do a doll- what is a dollar worth back then?

• 57:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, shit.

• 57:14Karen Kilgariff?

  One dollar? 1876, one dollar. I'm just gonna go ahead.

• 57:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, you go first, and then Molly will.

• 57:19Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay. Um, would that be?

• 57:21Georgia Hardstark?

  I'm gonna guess two.

• 57:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, I can guess two. You can too. We're all in this now. I'm gonna say thirty-one dollars.

• 57:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, I'm gonna say fifty.

• 57:27Speaker 05

  Karen, it's just AI overview, but it says thirty-one dollars.

• 57:30Karen Kilgariff?

  No!

• 57:32Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 57:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I had to ask for it. That looks like I set this whole thing up because I demanded it.

• 57:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No.

• 57:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Come on.

• 57:40Georgia Hardstark?

  I don't believe that you would do something like that.

• 57:41Karen Kilgariff?

  Have we ever had a dead-on one?

• 57:43Georgia Hardstark?

  I think once. And this is yours. Congratulations. Drop the streamers. Drop the streamers you've been hiding up there.

• 57:51Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, I guess, um, I've tried so hard for so long to guess the numbers. I'm really bad at it.

• 57:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Elvis.

• 57:57Karen Kilgariff?

  I couldn't have done it without Elvis.

• 57:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Aw.

• 57:59Karen Kilgariff?

  His necklace. Molly's like, could you please do your job?

• 58:04Speaker 05

  No, I love it. That was cute.

• 58:06Georgia Hardstark?

  This is your job.

• 58:08Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, this is my job.

• 58:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Can you believe it? This is your job. Good job getting this job.

• 58:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Thank you.

• 58:12Georgia Hardstark?

  Making this job.

• 58:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh my god, thank you.

• 58:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Creating this job.

• 58:14Karen Kilgariff?

  I applied, and then I called back two weeks later, and I said, hey, I am a bad interviewer, but I know I can do this.

• 58:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so we're in the moment when he's given thirty-one dollars for this poor guy named Jimmy to eat this meat, which is probably a lot of money. He's a railroad laborer. That's a lot of money.

• 58:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Mm-hmm.

• 58:29Georgia Hardstark?

  At this point, it's been about a week after the meat first fell from the sky.

• 58:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Jimmy's got a tummy ache?

• 58:35Georgia Hardstark?

  Well, journalist writes, quote, "The article was ordered and placed before him, the meat. He then hesitated and said he was not hungry. I then told him I would give him three dollars to gulp it down."

• 58:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Ninety. Ninety-three.

• 58:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. "He then suddenly remembered that it was the season of Lent and backed out on moral principles." So he didn't do it.

• 58:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Jimmy chicken out.

• 58:58Georgia Hardstark?

  Jimmy chicken out, or muttoned out. We don't really know.

• 59:00Karen Kilgariff?

  You know what he did? He dumbed his way in to a thing that,

• 59:03Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 59:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Why were you ever sitting at that table?

• 59:05Georgia Hardstark?

  Right.

• 59:05Karen Kilgariff?

  It's disgusting and risky.

• 59:06Georgia Hardstark?

  Don't do it. Drinking. Alcohol. There's no way alcohol wasn't involved.

• 59:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Just met some guy at a bar.

• 59:11Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. So the meat is sent to several different agencies for testing in Kentucky and also out of state. There's a man named Leopold Brandeis, whose qualifications are unclear. Same.

• 59:22Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, he has his own college. Does that count?

• 59:24Georgia Hardstark?

  Does he? Brandeis? Oh, yeah, university. He analyzes a sample that's been preserved in glycerin, and he publishes his findings in the Scientific American, because I guess anyone could throw anything in there now, saying he believes the substance is something called Gnostic. Have you heard of Gnostic?

• 59:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Only in the Bible.

• 59:41Georgia Hardstark?

  Or Nostic.

• 59:42Karen Kilgariff?

  G N O?

• 59:43Georgia Hardstark?

  N O S T O C.

• 59:44Karen Kilgariff?

  No, I've never heard of that.

• 59:45Georgia Hardstark?

  Basically, it's a bacteria that swells up into a jelly-like substance when it rains. I went to Wikipedia and it said that, quote, "The word itself is a combination of the English nostril and German Näschenloch, which means nose hole or nostril, because, basically because it looks like snot."

• 1:00:01Karen Kilgariff?

  That's disgusting.

• 1:00:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. And when it lands on the ground, I have a photo of it.

• 1:00:05Karen Kilgariff?

  Great. Here we go.

• 1:00:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, it just looks like seaweed, kind of.

• 1:00:10Karen Kilgariff?

  That looks like kelp.

• 1:00:11Georgia Hardstark?

  It looks like kelp. It looks like, oh, I have a photo of Mrs. Crouch, too.

• 1:00:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, perfect.

• 1:00:16Georgia Hardstark?

  We're all guessing she's 50, but that's in today's money. She's probably 27.

• 1:00:19Karen Kilgariff?

  She looks great.

• 1:00:20Georgia Hardstark?

  I know.

• 1:00:21Karen Kilgariff?

  Also, listener, Mrs. Crouch took a photo smartly with a parasol on her shoulder.

• 1:00:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Parasol and her hand on her fucking hip.

• 1:00:28Karen Kilgariff?

  She's doing it.

• 1:00:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:00:29Karen Kilgariff?

  She's making it happen.

• 1:00:30Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Come at me, she says.

• 1:00:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Mrs. Crouch. Now she has to use an umbrella because there's fucking Gnostic falling all over the place.

• 1:00:36Georgia Hardstark?

  I bet that was the journalist's idea. That's so true. Okay. But the problem with this theory is that, of course, the weather was fine and clear, so it's not that. Other testers believe that the meat is lung tissue, either from a horse... Or a human infant, which is fucking insane and everyone just moves on from that statement.

• 1:00:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Please no.

• 1:00:54Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, nobody is like, "What?"

• 1:00:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, because there was 200 pounds of it.

• 1:00:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Right. And actually, when Mrs. Crouch first sees it falling, she had said she had, quote, "A vague idea that my husband and son, who were away, had been torn to pieces and their remains were being brought home to me in this way by the wind," end quote. So she needed some Xanax before this even fucking happened.

• 1:01:15Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, and after the Civil War, so maybe she saw some stuff. And then she was like, "This reminds me of human..."

• 1:01:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Good point.

• 1:01:22Karen Kilgariff?

  ...tragedy, yeah.

• 1:01:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And then they probably still believe in God back then, so they're like, "God works, that guy works in mysterious ways."

• 1:01:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Absolutely.

• 1:01:28Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, throwing meat.

• 1:01:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Through the weather, as a punishment. Go to church, Mrs. Crouch. That's very weird, though, because I think that idea of looking at something completely foreign and immediately attributing it to a certain place is meaningful, because it's like...

• 1:01:44Georgia Hardstark?

  And also that, like, you're being punished in some way for something.

• 1:01:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:01:47Georgia Hardstark?

  That's like, you understand how that works. But multiple testers believe the meat might be hu- human, and this is so dumb. People think that two or more men may have killed each other somewhere in a nearby knife fight, and then the wind picked up all the remains and tornado dropped, it's just like, stupid.

• 1:02:03Karen Kilgariff?

  They slashed each other to ribbons without bones.

• 1:02:07Georgia Hardstark?

  And then they become those car, those car dealership guys.

• 1:02:12Karen Kilgariff?

  You can set one of those car dealership guys that dances around to any song, and I will laugh my ass off.

• 1:02:19Georgia Hardstark?

  That's so funny.

• 1:02:20Karen Kilgariff?

  Really good.

• 1:02:20Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so a humor writer back then named William Livingston Eldon writes in the New York Times that the meat might have come from space and maybe exploded animal matter from another planet.

• 1:02:30Karen Kilgariff?

  Boo.

• 1:02:31Georgia Hardstark?

  Let's stop talking about dumb theories.

• 1:02:32Karen Kilgariff?

  Let's not ask any old 4th grader what they think.

• 1:02:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Here's a dumb theory that is probably true.

• 1:02:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:02:38Georgia Hardstark?

  The theory that most locals arrive at, and that most people still believe to this day, is that the meat had been eaten by vultures, so we're far off, partially digested, and then when vultures get scared, they vomit their contents of their stomach out.

• 1:02:52Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:02:53Georgia Hardstark?

  So, vultures maybe had eaten something, they were in flight, something startled them, and they barfed all their, the meat, onto this one spot. That's the only, that's, to me, that's the only solution that isn't paranormal that makes sense.

• 1:03:07Karen Kilgariff?

  It makes perfect sense, may I introduce the idea that they got scared by a pterodactyl? A leftover dinosaur.

• 1:03:14Georgia Hardstark?

  You know what? If they got scared by a UFO, then we're back.

• 1:03:18Karen Kilgariff?

  If they got scared by the Loch Ness Monster, now I'm interested in that story.

• 1:03:23Georgia Hardstark?

  So, well, actually, you're right. That might be the reason, but we don't know why and what scared them. And it's probably sci-fi.

• 1:03:28Karen Kilgariff?

  It feels good, though, that there is something normal that you can tell me that possibly could happen, because the agitation, I feel, not being able to think of even how possibly this could happen.

• 1:03:39Georgia Hardstark?

  No, because your brain goes to airplane and then your brain is like, that's stupid. It's 1876.

• 1:03:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. And then you start going, but I saw a show on Netflix where they actually fold those things over.

• 1:03:49Georgia Hardstark?

  It could be. The enduring mystery, though, is that Mrs. Crouch was standing right in her yard. She didn't see any of these vultures, but who knows? It could have flown that way. She might not have seen them. They were very high. Who knows? What?

• 1:04:04Karen Kilgariff?

  I just, I would love to keep that list going. She had bad vision. She was a liar. The soap blinded her.

• 1:04:13Georgia Hardstark?

  She had eaten some fucking magic mushrooms from her farm.

• 1:04:16Karen Kilgariff?

  The whole thing was fake.

• 1:04:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Yep. So here's the fun part. In the early 2000s, there's an art professor named Kurt Goad, who takes a job at Kentucky's oldest university.

• 1:04:27Karen Kilgariff?

  Kentucky University of Ancient History.

• 1:04:29Georgia Hardstark?

  So close. Transylvania, University of Lexington, Kentucky.

• 1:04:34Karen Kilgariff?

  Nuh-uh.

• 1:04:35Georgia Hardstark?

  In Lexington, Kentucky.

• 1:04:36Karen Kilgariff?

  No, no, there is not a vampire college in Lexington.

• 1:04:39Georgia Hardstark?

  There's a vampire college.

• 1:04:40Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:04:40Georgia Hardstark?

  And he's an art professor there. And right around that time that he starts this job, he reads a book about strange weather phenomenon and is thrilled. This guy's like an adorable weirdo.

• 1:04:49Karen Kilgariff?

  Great.

• 1:04:49Georgia Hardstark?

  He's like an art teacher, but seems like the kind of like high school science teacher that like makes you interested in science and you become a scientist. And you're like, the only reason is because Mr. Goad told me that I could be anything. And so I did it. And that women are in science too. And so I did, you know, like, he just is one of those. He also, he's kind of like, if Vince had an older brother who was a professor, he kind of looks like him. Actually, I have a photo of him. He's kind of got a hot, zaddy vibe.

• 1:05:11Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, hell, yes.

• 1:05:13Georgia Hardstark?

  Right? So, we love him. He reads a book about this thing happening. And he's shocked to learn that like nobody from there knows about the meat showers. And he's like, this is exciting. And it kind of becomes an obsession of his. Just by luck, a few years later, in 2004, he is cleaning out a storage university at Transylvania University when he happens upon a small, clear, very old vial filled with yellowy liquid. In the liquid is suspended a white hunk of something, and the faded label reads Olympia Springs. Kurt has found, at this fucking college that he started teaching at, the last known sample of the meat. And he's overjoyed. I have a photo of it. And I have one for you right here.

• 1:05:55Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, my God, I'll try it.

• 1:05:56Georgia Hardstark?

  Actually, the thing behind you kind of looks like it.

• 1:05:58Karen Kilgariff?

  For $31, you get a little bit of that going.

• 1:06:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Oh, that's so gross. Here's a photo of the vial with the, like, gross, tendony-looking. How much to drink that liquid?

• 1:06:09Karen Kilgariff?

  I guess for me, right now in my life, it would have to be roughly $3 million.

• 1:06:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:06:14Karen Kilgariff?

  But how much would I have to drink?

• 1:06:16Georgia Hardstark?

  How about?

• 1:06:16Karen Kilgariff?

  A sip?

• 1:06:17Georgia Hardstark?

  Chew it. Chew that shit in the bottom or drink. Chew and spit out that shit in the bottom, I mean, the swallow, or drink the liquid. Pick one.

• 1:06:24Karen Kilgariff?

  Drink the liquid?

• 1:06:26Georgia Hardstark?

  No, because then you're in ju-- yeah.

• 1:06:29Karen Kilgariff?

  The chewing is what's going to give you true trauma, because you're going to be, like, remembering any time you chew anything.

• 1:06:34Georgia Hardstark?

  And then, like, infants and stuff.

• 1:06:37Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, wouldn't you just die?

• 1:06:38Georgia Hardstark?

  You also don't have to do either of those things.

• 1:06:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Well, now I want to.

• 1:06:42Georgia Hardstark?

  What the fuck? I am not even drinking. Okay, he's so excited, because he's a nerd. And he-- so he works with a professor in the biology department to try to test the sample, but it's too degraded. And they can't find a conclusive finding. It's 2004, so it's like the Dark Ages. But Kurt is an artist, and he's more interested in the multisensory experience of the phenomenon.

• 1:07:02Karen Kilgariff?

  Of drinking and eating it.

• 1:07:04Georgia Hardstark?

  Rather than continuing to pursue clear-cut answers. So he sends the vial to a lab in Cincinnati that analyzes flavor compounds.

• 1:07:13Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:07:14Georgia Hardstark?

  And then he uses that flavor information to make jelly beans that essentially taste like whatever it was, to have people help him figure out what the meat was.

• 1:07:24Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like that's a very art teacher solution.

• 1:07:27Georgia Hardstark?

  That's exactly what it is.

• 1:07:28Karen Kilgariff?

  I feel like if I was involved with that, it would be on par with the first time I had a popcorn jelly belly. Have you ever eaten that flavor? The butter?

• 1:07:38Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:38Karen Kilgariff?

  Buttered popcorn?

• 1:07:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Any, like, the weird jelly belly flavors that came out in the, like, 90s? The kids today don't know. Like, that wasn't a thing before. It was just like fruit flavored jelly beans. God, I sound so old.

• 1:07:49Karen Kilgariff?

  It really was.

• 1:07:50Georgia Hardstark?

  But they really, when jelly belly came out with these, like, crazy flavors, we were, our minds were blown.

• 1:07:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:07:55Georgia Hardstark?

  And then you'd, like, mix the coconut with the popcorn one and like,

• 1:07:57Karen Kilgariff?

  It's a Mai Tai!

• 1:07:58Georgia Hardstark?

  It's so exciting.

• 1:07:59Karen Kilgariff?

  In third grade, saying, "I just had tried a Mai Tai."

• 1:08:02Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:02Karen Kilgariff?

  But also, there were some flavors that were so upsetting that, like, he's basically walking people into, "Come and eat an upsetting thing with me."

• 1:08:09Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah. Cause like, cause I wanna learn.

• 1:08:11Karen Kilgariff?

  For science.

• 1:08:12Georgia Hardstark?

  For learning's sake. So it's, like, adorable.

• 1:08:14Karen Kilgariff?

  Okay.

• 1:08:14Georgia Hardstark?

  Okay, so, uh, he, he actually passes them out. There's a big festival called Kentucky Court Days. And in 2007, he passes them out. Responses are varied. Multiple people said the beans tasted like bacon. Another person said it was like a strawberry pork chop.

• 1:08:31Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, he's trying to do, like, everybody gets to have a vote to figure out what this is.

• 1:08:36Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, like, what kind of meat is this?

• 1:08:37Karen Kilgariff?

  I see, sorry. I was thinking he was doing it scientifically, but also through jelly beans. Where I'm just like, uh.

• 1:08:43Georgia Hardstark?

  No, no, no, no. He's having fun with the whole thing.

• 1:08:45Karen Kilgariff?

  Love it.

• 1:08:45Georgia Hardstark?

  But nobody wanted to try a second jelly bean to find out.

• 1:08:48Karen Kilgariff?

  That's how bad they were?

• 1:08:49Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, and I think he still has some leftover, too. Almost 20 years later, so, fast forward to now, and Kurt is still obsessed with the Kentucky Meat Shower. And, in fact, just last, this February that just happened, in 2026, it was the 150th anniversary of the Kentucky Meat Shower.

• 1:09:06Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:09:06Georgia Hardstark?

  And he celebrates with a little festival in town, which includes, there's a meatball toss.

• 1:09:12Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:09:12Georgia Hardstark?

  There's hot dogs, of course. And a bologna throwing contest. Like, he's just having fun with his hype. So, this whole festival that he creates culminates in the second ever Kentucky Meat Shower. He has a small airplane.

• 1:09:26Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh.

• 1:09:27Georgia Hardstark?

  Drop 1876, which is the year it happened, individually wrapped pieces of beef jerky from the sky.

• 1:09:34Karen Kilgariff?

  I love this man.

• 1:09:35Georgia Hardstark?

  They, there's a video of it. They look like snowflakes, the way he wraps them and they come down. He's, it's so, it's so, um, whimsical.

• 1:09:42Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes.

• 1:09:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Right?

• 1:09:42Karen Kilgariff?

  And fun.

• 1:09:43Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And each package has a number on it, and then the people who pick them up can go to his website, which is called fleshfalls.com. And claim prizes based on those numbers, including a gift card to a local cafe.

• 1:09:57Karen Kilgariff?

  Nice.

• 1:09:57Georgia Hardstark?

  Like, get me out of LA is what I think that's what this is a plea for me.

• 1:10:01Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, exactly.

• 1:10:01Georgia Hardstark?

  And a necklace by a local artist, as well as a signed book by humorist author and journalist Dave Barry, who wrote about the event in his Substack and seemed charmed by it. So the specimen is now housed in Transylvania U's Monroe Moon sick Medical and Science Museum.

• 1:10:23Karen Kilgariff?

  If you work at the Monroe Medical Music and Medical Science Museum, will you please reach out to us because we want to hear, are you real? Is Transylvania real? Is any of this real?

• 1:10:34Georgia Hardstark?

  Can we have a private tour?

• 1:10:35Karen Kilgariff?

  And will you send us merch?

• 1:10:37Georgia Hardstark?

  And will you send us meat sticks?

• 1:10:38Karen Kilgariff?

  And will you send us-

• 1:10:39Georgia Hardstark?

  Merch, I want merch for this.

• 1:10:40Karen Kilgariff?

  Transylvania College sweatshirts, please.

• 1:10:42Georgia Hardstark?

  Uh, Dave Barry writes about it that the museum, quote, houses many 19th century scientific and medical artifacts, including a hairball 14 inches in diameter that was removed from the stomach of a cow.

• 1:10:54Karen Kilgariff?

  Uh huh.

• 1:10:55Georgia Hardstark?

  And a, quote, tobacco smoke kleister, which is a device that doctors once used to try to revive drowning victims by blowing tobacco smoke up their butts.

• 1:11:04Karen Kilgariff?

  No.

• 1:11:05Georgia Hardstark?

  And then he writes, I am not making any of this up.

• 1:11:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Oh, that sounds like it's the Mutter Museum or the-

• 1:11:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:11:10Karen Kilgariff?

  Mutter, I don't know how to pronounce it. But like, a medical history museum is a fascinating-

• 1:11:15Georgia Hardstark?

  For sure, especially a small one.

• 1:11:17Karen Kilgariff?

  Yeah, specialized.

• 1:11:18Georgia Hardstark?

  Um.

• 1:11:19Karen Kilgariff?

  And Dracula.

• 1:11:21Georgia Hardstark?

  And Transylvania. I'm gonna end on a quote from Dave Barry that he has defined a sense of humor as, quote, "A measurement of the extent to which we realize that we are trapped in a world almost totally devoid of reason, laughter is how we express the anxiety we feel at this knowledge."

• 1:11:39Karen Kilgariff?

  Yes, Dave.

• 1:11:40Georgia Hardstark?

  And that is the story of the Kentucky Meat Shower. True Crime Murder Podcast.

• 1:11:46Karen Kilgariff?

  Hell, yes. Year 10.

• 1:11:48Georgia Hardstark?

  Year 10.

• 1:11:48Karen Kilgariff?

  In the fall of fascism, when the world around us has turned to living hell.

• 1:11:52Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right. When women are getting imprisoned for taking out... No, we're not going there.

• 1:11:56Karen Kilgariff?

  I mean, but we are there. We don't have to go anywhere. We're fucking here.

• 1:12:01Georgia Hardstark?

  Yes.

• 1:12:02Karen Kilgariff?

  We've been talking about it for a while. And in the meantime of all this bullshit, we're going to tell each other about delightful things.

• 1:12:09Georgia Hardstark?

  That's right.

• 1:12:09Karen Kilgariff?

  And horrible things.

• 1:12:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:11Karen Kilgariff?

  And things we feel we need to know.

• 1:12:13Georgia Hardstark?

  As of yesterday, we are no longer the only true crime podcast, so you're welcome to come listen.

• 1:12:18Karen Kilgariff?

  Did that just happen?

• 1:12:19Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:19Karen Kilgariff?

  There's a couple more have popped up?

• 1:12:21Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah, we had a great run of being the only ones.

• 1:12:23Karen Kilgariff?

  Yep. Now, we're going to be doing this weird shit.

• 1:12:26Georgia Hardstark?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:27Karen Kilgariff?

  So buckle the fuck up. People are like, we are.

• 1:12:31Georgia Hardstark?

  We listen to the end of this episode.

• 1:12:32Karen Kilgariff?

  What do you want us to do?

• 1:12:33Georgia Hardstark?

  Why are you mad at us?

• 1:12:34Karen Kilgariff?

  How much more do we have to listen to you?

• 1:12:36Georgia Hardstark?

  No, we love you guys. If you've listened to this point, you're a real one. And we fucking appreciate the shit out of you.

• 1:12:41Karen Kilgariff?

  You're the realest ones.

• 1:12:42Georgia Hardstark?

  And we're all trying, and you're doing great.

• 1:12:44Karen Kilgariff?

  Stay sexy.

• 1:12:45Georgia Hardstark?

  And don't get murdered.

• 1:12:47Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye. Elvis, do you want a cookie?

• 1:12:50Georgia Hardstark?

  Ah.

• 1:12:58Karen Kilgariff?

  This has been an Exactly Right Production.

• 1:12:59Georgia Hardstark?

  Our senior producer is Molly Smith, and our associate producer is Tessa Hughes.

• 1:13:03Karen Kilgariff?

  Our editor is Aristotle Lassaveto.

• 1:13:05Georgia Hardstark?

  This episode was mixed by Liana Scolacci.

• 1:13:07Karen Kilgariff?

  Our researchers are Maren McGlashan and Ally Elkin.

• 1:13:10Georgia Hardstark?

  Email your hometowns to [email protected].

• 1:13:13Karen Kilgariff?

  And follow the show on Instagram at MyFavoriteMurder.

• 1:13:16Georgia Hardstark?

  Listen to My Favorite Murder on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

• 1:13:21Karen Kilgariff?

  And now you can watch My Favorite Murder on Netflix.

• 1:13:23Georgia Hardstark?

  And when you're there, hit the double thumbs up and the remind me buttons. That's the best way you can support our show.

• 1:13:29Karen Kilgariff?

  Goodbye.

• 1:13:33Karen Kilgariff?

  Calling all amateur detectives and podcast obsessives.

• 1:13:37Georgia Hardstark?

  Virgin Voyages' second true crime voyage sets sail March 20th, 2027, for a five-night escape to Grand Turk and the Beach Club at Bimini.

• 1:13:45Karen Kilgariff?

  As part of the On Air at Sea collection, this immersive sailing brings together fan favorite podcasts, including Disgrace Land, Buried Bones, and Wise Crack, for live recordings, behind-the-scenes access, exclusive meet and greets, and crime-themed programming that you won't find anywhere else.

• 1:14:01Georgia Hardstark?

  All aboard our award-winning, kid-free ships.

• 1:14:04Karen Kilgariff?

  Head over to virginvoyages.com/truecrime to secure your spot.

• 1:14:08Georgia Hardstark?

  Goodbye.

• 1:14:10Speaker 06

  Halloween's almost here and I've got plans. My first stop is Total Wine & More for cold beer, ready to drink cocktails, and a bottle of wine to share. And I know I'm getting the lowest prices. Get the fun started at Total Wine & More. Spirits are not sold in Virginia and North Carolina. Drink responsibly, P21.

• 1:14:25Speaker 04

  Building with AI should feel simpler, not harder to navigate. The challenge is finding the right resources to move from exploring AI to building with it. The Microsoft AI Innovators Hub brings together code samples, guided labs, and practical guidance to help you move from exploring AI to building with it. Learn by building at the AI Innovators Hub. Visit aka.ms/ai-innovators. That's aka.ms/ai-innovators.

• 1:14:56Speaker 07

  She's been thinking about this sleepover all week, but I think about her food allergies all the time. Fortunately, her doctor prescribed Zolaire, omalizumab. It's proven to significantly reduce allergic reactions if a food allergy accident happens.

• 1:15:09Speaker 04

  Zolaire 150mg is a prescription medication used to treat food allergy in people one year of age and older to reduce allergic reactions due to accidental exposure to one or more foods. While taking Zolaire, you should continue to avoid all foods to which you are allergic. Don't use if you are allergic to Zolaire. Zolaire may cause a severe, life-threatening allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Tell your doctor if you ever had anaphylaxis. Get help right away if you have trouble breathing or if you have swelling of your throat or tongue. Zolaire should not be used for the emergency treatment of allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis. Zolaire is for maintenance use to reduce allergic reactions, including anaphylaxis, while avoiding food allergens. Serious side effects such as cancer, fever, muscle aches and rash, parasitic infection, or heart and circulation problems have been reported. Please see zolaire.com for full prescribing information. Ask an allergist about Zolaire.

• 1:15:52Speaker 04

  This is an advertisement for Zolaire paid for by Genentech and Novartis.