Jonathan Groff

This week for our NYC series we have the star of stage and screen, Broadway legend - and newly Tony nominated - Jonathan Groff joining us! Fresh from opening night of his brand new - and already 6 time Tony nominated - show Just In Time, Jonathan joined us at The Standard High Line for lunch. We heard all about what it’s like playing the iconic Bobby Darin and how the play came to be. We also talked about Jonathan growing up on a farm in Pennsylvania, figuring out his sexuality, working as a waiter in NYC, audition rejections, Frozen 3, and his deep love of Beyoncé. Just In Time has just opened at the Circle In The Square Theatre in NYC, and you don’t want to miss seeing him shine! Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy https://acast.com/privacy for more information.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

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• 1:59Jessie Ware?

  Hello and welcome to Table Manners. I'm Jessie Ware and I'm here with Mum. And we are in a suite today at the Standard High Line.

• 2:05Speaker 04

  And it's very sweet.

• 2:06Jessie Ware?

  It's got a round bed.

• 2:07Speaker 04

  It's got a round bathtub.

• 2:09Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. It's got a round dinner table.

• 2:11Speaker 04

  Around everything, darling.

• 2:13Jessie Ware?

  Um, we've got the view of the Statue of Liberty right out there on another sunny day in New York.

• 2:17Speaker 04

  The windows in every room are enormous. So you have the best view of the city I've ever seen. The skyline is just magnificent.

• 2:27Jessie Ware?

  I'm so excited to be in New York again.

• 2:29Speaker 04

  Yeah, the cosmopolitans are better here. There's a lot of dogs. The blossom is out.

• 2:35Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, the blossom is killing me.

• 2:36Speaker 04

  And the weather is gorgeous.

• 2:37Jessie Ware?

  It's been fabulous.

• 2:38Speaker 04

  It's been the best. And also, we went last night to something really fantastic.

• 2:43Jessie Ware?

  Well, the guest that we have on today is our friend Jonathan Groff, who we went to see his opening night last night.

• 2:50Speaker 04

  Just in time.

• 2:51Jessie Ware?

  He's playing Bobby Darin. Bobby Darin, if you don't know who Bobby Darin is, he was a very famous... Yeah, but like, a lot of people...

• 3:00Speaker 04

  Well, they need to mug up on their bloody American history.

• 3:04Jessie Ware?

  Listen, Jake Cohen is in the room because he's helped us with letting us use his kitchen today and also done the suite. So Jake, come on the mic for a second. Have you heard of Bobby Darin?

• 3:14Speaker 05

  I have no idea.

• 3:15Jessie Ware?

  Exactly. But you'd know, "Dream lover..."

• 3:19Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 3:20Jessie Ware?

  Not Mariah.

• 3:21Speaker 04

  "Mac the Knife."

• 3:22Jessie Ware?

  "Splish splash, I was taking a bet." No, "Mac the Knife"? Somewhere...

• 3:29Speaker 05

  Yes, of course, of course, of course.

• 3:31Jessie Ware?

  Okay, so he was like a crooner?

• 3:33Speaker 04

  Oh, the shark has...

• 3:35Speaker 05

  You got me on that one song.

• 3:36Jessie Ware?

  Okay, fine.

• 3:37Speaker 05

  I'll take, I'll take the L on the rest.

• 3:39Jessie Ware?

  So Jonathan Groff plays Bobby Darin. He's absolutely fantastic in it.

• 3:42Speaker 04

  Who was an amazing crooner, sang jazz classics and really was famous by the time he was 20.

• 3:50Jessie Ware?

  But died very, very early.

• 3:52Speaker 04

  April 37.

• 3:54Jessie Ware?

  But let's talk about the menu whilst you're here. Thank you very much for providing your kitchen, but also a delicious suite. So for savoury, we've done the Zuni Cafe, which probably feels quite blasphemous because we're in New York and it's a kind of, it's synonymous with San Francisco. Zuni Cafe.

• 4:11Speaker 05

  God forbid you do a Waldorf salad.

• 4:14Speaker 04

  God forbid.

• 4:16Jessie Ware?

  God, that would have been a good idea. Um, so I've done the roast chicken and bread salad with currants and.

• 4:24Speaker 04

  Pine nuts.

• 4:25Jessie Ware?

  Pine nuts and spring onions and it's delicious. It smells really good. And then you've done.

• 4:30Speaker 05

  A very simple pudding.

• 4:32Jessie Ware?

  We appreciate.

• 4:32Speaker 05

  If you can even call it pudding, I love it. I just, anytime I'm around you, everything is pudding. These are really fun. It's just you stuff dates with halva and then cover them with dark chocolate and flaky sea salt.

• 4:44Jessie Ware?

  Delicious.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  Oh my goodness.

• 4:45Speaker 05

  Little sweet, little salty, little nutty.

• 4:48Jessie Ware?

  Do you keep them in the freezer?

• 4:49Speaker 05

  I keep them in the fridge.

• 4:51Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 4:51Speaker 05

  Freezer, Lenny will definitely lose a tooth if we keep, if we freeze.

• 4:55Speaker 04

  My veneers darling, you're considering my veneers.

• 4:58Speaker 05

  Yes. No, the fridge is perfect.

• 4:59Jessie Ware?

  See, I've done, I've done dates with peanut butter, but the halva is really, that feels slightly more luxurious.

• 5:05Speaker 05

  A little bit.

• 5:05Speaker 04

  Did you make it into a paste?

• 5:07Speaker 05

  No, I just crumble it and just like shove it in. There you go.

• 5:11Speaker 04

  As the actress said to the bishop.

• 5:13Speaker 05

  That's my other, those are my two things that I've taken away from the two of you this week. It's like, everything is pudding and what the.

• 5:20Speaker 04

  Actress said to the bishop.

• 5:21Speaker 05

  Actress said to the bishop.

• 5:23Jessie Ware?

  It's kind of, that's what she said.

• 5:24Speaker 05

  I know, I know, I'm obsessed.

• 5:25Speaker 04

  It's gonna be on my tombstone.

• 5:26Jessie Ware?

  Do you think, do you think you'll be using as the actress said to the bishop at the clubs this weekend?

• 5:30Speaker 05

  Yes, with a fake British accent.

• 5:32Jessie Ware?

  Okay, fine.

• 5:34Jessie Ware?

  Thank you for, for your services today.

• 5:36Speaker 04

  Thank you for everything.

• 5:38Jessie Ware?

  So for people that don't know who Jonathan Druoff is, well, how dare you, but he is probably one of the, the most beloved Broadway stars. You may have heard his voice in Frozen, cause he plays Kristoff in Frozen. He also was in the first cast of Spring Awakening. He was also in Glee. He's been in every kind of, very important musical.

• 5:59Speaker 04

  Theatre.

• 6:00Jessie Ware?

  Theatre moment in the past decade. Hamilton, he played King George.

• 6:06Speaker 04

  Merrily we roll along.

• 6:06Jessie Ware?

  Merrily we roll along. He won his first Tony.

• 6:09Speaker 04

  I first heard of him because your sister had an incestuous relationship with him when he played her brother in the TV series Boss.

• 6:17Jessie Ware?

  Yes.

• 6:18Speaker 04

  And she said, I'd met this adorable, wonderful actor, Jonathan. And then you got to know him and he then used your song in Looking.

• 6:30Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, we became friends. I think my record, first record hadn't even come out. So we've been friends for about 15 years, I think. It's just mad. And he's just a fabulous human being. He's gorgeous, he's brilliant, he's so talented. And I can't actually believe he's coming over after his opening night to come on Table manners. But here we are, Jonathan Groff coming up on Table manners.

• 7:04Jessie Ware?

  Cheers.

• 7:05Speaker 06

  Cheers.

• 7:05Jessie Ware?

  Jonathan Groff on Table manners, finally.

• 7:07Speaker 06

  Cheers, I'm so excited to be here.

• 7:10Jessie Ware?

  You're the hardest guy to get, Jonathan.

• 7:12Speaker 06

  Oh, come.

• 7:12Jessie Ware?

  You are. You're always on the stage, winning Tonys and shit. Yeah, congratulations.

• 7:18Speaker 06

  I'm always in the theatre.

• 7:18Jessie Ware?

  You are, darling.

• 7:19Speaker 04

  Can we just say, last night.

• 7:21Speaker 06

  Oh.

• 7:22Jessie Ware?

  That was fantastic.

• 7:24Speaker 04

  It was breathtaking.

• 7:25Speaker 06

  Thank you so much. It was so, I spotted you, top of act two, dream lover. I'm looking for my dream lover and then I was like, there they are. And you gave me the cutest, like.

• 7:37Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, it was a little peck.

• 7:38Speaker 06

  It was a little peck. It was really cute.

• 7:40Jessie Ware?

  Okay, good, fine, good.

• 7:42Speaker 06

  You were sitting really close.

• 7:44Speaker 04

  I know, so close.

• 7:45Speaker 06

  Whoa.

• 7:46Speaker 04

  We're doing all the clapping.

• 7:47Jessie Ware?

  Sadly, I didn't get any spit, though.

• 7:49Speaker 06

  You didn't.

• 7:51Jessie Ware?

  I'm sick about that.

• 7:52Speaker 06

  Listen, we've got all morning, I could spit.

• 7:57Speaker 06

  We're in this hotel room.

• 7:58Jessie Ware?

  How, how are you?

• 8:01Jessie Ware?

  This was an opening night last night.

• 8:02Speaker 06

  Last night, yeah.

• 8:03Jessie Ware?

  It was fantastic, just in time. You're playing Bobby Darin.

• 8:06Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 8:06Jessie Ware?

  You are so fantastic in the role.

• 8:10Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 8:11Jessie Ware?

  But it's also, it's like a night with Jonathan Groff and Bobby Darin.

• 8:15Speaker 04

  Yeah, it is.

• 8:16Jessie Ware?

  It's in the basement of Wicked, which is so bonkers to me.

• 8:20Speaker 04

  Beautiful theatre, though.

• 8:22Jessie Ware?

  But you've made it like the Copa.

• 8:23Speaker 06

  Theatre, the circle and the square, yeah. This, we, we've been developing this show for eight years. So how am I feeling? It's like, it's eight years in the making.

• 8:31Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 8:32Speaker 06

  Like, a couple hours before we, we started last night, I was just like weeping.

• 8:37Jessie Ware?

  Really?

• 8:38Speaker 06

  I was like openly weeping, like, at, like, at one point, I was just standing in the centre of the dressing room, about a half an hour before the show, and my door is open and I was just like. And David, one of our stage runners, was like, are you just in here crying? I was like, yeah, it's like, this is, this is eight years of wishing and wanting and working and trying to make this happen. And this conceit, because I was asked to do this night of Bobby Darin music at the 92nd Street Y here in Manhattan.

• 9:07Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 9:08Speaker 06

  And this amazing director, Alex Timbers, came on to direct it. And we were reading about Bobby Darin and Oscar nominated actor Grammy.

• 9:17Jessie Ware?

  What was he Oscar nominated for?

• 9:19Speaker 06

  Captain Newman M.D.

• 9:20Jessie Ware?

  Was this the one where he was in with Sandra Day?

• 9:23Speaker 06

  No, that was, that was come September, which was his like, sort of first, first movie. But he, he was like, he actually wanted to be an actor first before a singer. But he was, won Grammys and, and music producer, like prolific career, but by all accounts, his magic, he was at the height of his powers at the center of a nightclub floor. And he was best known for this relationship with the audience. Sammy Davis Jr. famously said, the only person I won't follow is Bobby Darin.

• 9:53Jessie Ware?

  Wow.

• 9:53Speaker 06

  Because, partially because of this electricity he had with the audience. So eight years ago, we're reading all this stuff about him and I offered up, I'd love it if I could start the show as myself.

• 10:03Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 10:04Speaker 06

  Because even if I'm playing the character of Bobby Darin, there's like the artifice of character between me and the audience. If I could start as myself and create that, connect that like, um, thread between us.

• 10:18Jessie Ware?

  It's an intimacy as well, yeah.

• 10:19Speaker 06

  There's intimacy, yeah. Start with that and then we can collectively go back and experience the story of Bobby Darin together. Could we do that? And, and then we brought on these amazing writers, Warren Light and my dear friend, Isaac Oliver, and they like cracked it. They found a way to write me as me and then transition us into Bobby Darin. And so it ends up being kind of this like. Super intimate experience between the performers and the audience.

• 10:47Jessie Ware?

  And I thought it was really beautiful how at the beginning, you are Jonathan Groff. You you talk about it, you you you take us into the world of Bobby. But at the end, it's like you and Bobby are the same person.

• 10:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 10:57Speaker 06

  Wow.

• 10:57Jessie Ware?

  When you when you speak at the end and you say, you know, this is a gift and like and you're on. You were right by your dad at this point when you said this line. I don't I can't remember the line.

• 11:06Speaker 04

  I'm gonna cry now.

• 11:07Jessie Ware?

  And it was so powerful and you could just see how much joy you were having as Jonathan, but also it was it was beautiful.

• 11:15Speaker 04

  We we a lot of us were crying.

• 11:17Speaker 06

  Oh, my god.

• 11:18Speaker 04

  I was crying in the audience.

• 11:19Jessie Ware?

  It was really beautiful.

• 11:20Speaker 04

  And people, when we went to the bathroom at halftime, people say I cried right the way through it. It was one of the.

• 11:26Speaker 06

  I love that you call it halftime because that's what my dad calls it too. It's like a sports thing. Yeah.

• 11:30Jessie Ware?

  It's a really special show and I don't want to reduce it. It feels like by reducing it to calling it a jukebox musical, which I don't know why that's the.

• 11:38Speaker 04

  Why do they call it that?

• 11:39Jessie Ware?

  Because it's songs. Were there any original songs in there?

• 11:43Speaker 06

  So he wrote like half of those songs, Bobby Darin did, like he wrote Dream Lover. He wrote Splish Splash. He wrote Things. He wrote Rainin. So it's and and he wrote Eighteen Yellow Roses about sending Sandra Dee's mother and then Sandra Dee Eighteen. So weirdly, it's like in some ways, as we were through the years developing, we were like, wow, it's like he. He was writing such autobiographical material. And it's partially why it doesn't just feel like a jukebox musical. Because they are the hits of his career and of his life. But they also were coming from his soul and they were coming from his life story. And he was such a kind of an enigmatic performer.

• 12:23Speaker 06

  So there's like this energy about him and his life that it is it is a biomusical and we're using the hits of his life. But there is something about his artistry that that connects all of those dots in a really unique, specific way.

• 12:36Jessie Ware?

  Yeah. So your parents were sitting behind us.

• 12:39Speaker 06

  Oh, my god.

• 12:39Jessie Ware?

  And they were so proud. I asked your mom if she could sing.

• 12:44Speaker 06

  What did she say?

• 12:45Jessie Ware?

  She said, well, not like that.

• 12:47Speaker 04

  Not like that.

• 12:48Speaker 06

  Oh, interesting answer, Jules.

• 12:49Speaker 04

  Your dad, your dad didn't confirm that he could sing.

• 12:53Speaker 06

  No, he famously says like, I don't sing. His dad, my grandfather, who died on my 10th birthday, was a Mennonite preacher and wanted to be an opera singer, but had to do the dairy farmer thing. But he would like shake the rafters in the church.

• 13:08Jessie Ware?

  That's so interesting. My grandfather was a synagogue. And never got to really do it.

• 13:13Speaker 04

  Because they wanted him to be an opera singer.

• 13:16Speaker 06

  No way. There's that interesting thing of like religion and performance and like Jesus versus Judy kind of energy of like, are you?

• 13:27Jessie Ware?

  Jesus versus Judy.

• 13:27Speaker 06

  That's Sherri Renee Scott, who's half Mennonite. She's a Broadway performer. And in her one woman show, she was like, growing up, it was always like Jesus versus Judy. Like, I wanted to be a performer, but I was also told to be humble and not step out of, you know, to like not be front and center.

• 13:44Jessie Ware?

  Can we talk about the dinner table? Growing up?

• 13:47Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 13:48Jessie Ware?

  Pennsylvania?

• 13:49Speaker 06

  Lancaster, Pennsylvania.

• 13:50Speaker 04

  Were you on a farm?

• 13:52Speaker 06

  Sort of, yeah. So, so like, the house that I grew up in is surrounded by cornfields. So it's all Amish farms around us.

• 14:01Speaker 04

  You're kidding?

• 14:02Speaker 06

  Yeah, like horse and buggy, no electricity. I mean, we had electricity, but it's like, the, you know, videos of my brother and I like running through the cornfields. And there was our, our house in the middle of those cornfields. And then my dad trained and raised his horses for a living. And so he had a horse farm like 20 minutes from where our home was that we would like play on as kids.

• 14:25Speaker 04

  How many horses?

• 14:27Speaker 06

  Well, he, so he had like, I mean, at the height of his like career, it would be like 50 horses on this horse farm. Now it's four. He's 72, he's still training the horses and going to the races. And my dream is to turn his horse farm into an artist retreat. And I'm gonna build a house on his horse farm this year. And I want to turn the barns into creative spaces. Because growing up there as a kid, that's where we put on like The Wizard of Oz when I was four and I was Dorothy and my brother was the Tin Man. And every time I go home, I feel that fertile, creative. And there's something about the Amish farmland because it's like,

• 15:08Speaker 06

  Impeccable, the cornfields and the tobacco fields, it's like, really like beautiful. And it's like honoring nature, but it's also the respectful touch of the human hand. And they, it's like tractors, but it's like, it's like, it's like with horses, horse drawn. It's old fashioned, yeah, there's something really kind of primal and, and like, like fertile about the land there that makes me feel really creative.

• 15:34Speaker 04

  Did you live off the land then?

• 15:36Speaker 06

  Not at all, no, yeah, we were like, I was also scared of the horses.

• 15:40Speaker 04

  Oh, so you do not ride?

• 15:41Speaker 06

  I, I learned how to ride for a movie. And I invited my dad to the set, the day that I was riding the horse, because I was so proud. But like, growing up, you know, we were like shoveling the horse shit out of the stalls. And I was scared the horses were gonna kick me and, and our mom like put the fear of God in us about getting hurt by the horses. And when you're scared of horses, they get, you know, they're really sensitive. I love them from afar, but I'm not.

• 16:06Speaker 04

  But did your dad wear like a cowboy outfit and chaps and things?

• 16:11Speaker 04

  I just wonder. Because of, no, because of his riding horses and training them.

• 16:18Jessie Ware?

  Why does he need to wear chaps?

• 16:19Speaker 04

  Because I thought they did, when they were riding on horses with saddles.

• 16:23Speaker 06

  They do, no, you're right, like cowboys, they do.

• 16:26Jessie Ware?

  We wear jockers.

• 16:28Speaker 04

  It's not just on OnlyFans, Jesse.

• 16:33Jessie Ware?

  Lenny.

• 16:36Speaker 06

  Lenny.

• 16:38Jessie Ware?

  Honestly, every, every gay man wants Lenny to live with him in New York City.

• 16:43Speaker 06

  I believe that.

• 16:44Jessie Ware?

  It's like, Jake Owen's like, don't worry, Lenny's staying with us next time.

• 16:47Speaker 04

  So did he wear a cowboy hat?

• 16:49Speaker 06

  So, so I'm, I'm, I'm not describing it well enough, because it's like, he trained and races horses, but it's harness racing. So it's, he's not on the back of the horse, he's in the cart behind the horse. So he had an outfit, like a jockey outfit, that was like a onesie, like a onesie. But not, like, he's not on a saddle on the, on the, riding a horse in that way.

• 17:14Speaker 04

  So he was training the horses to do this kind of chariot kind of cart racing?

• 17:19Speaker 06

  Exactly, exactly, which they still do.

• 17:21Jessie Ware?

  That's quite niche.

• 17:23Speaker 04

  But where do they do this racing?

• 17:26Speaker 06

  It is quite niche.

• 17:28Speaker 04

  Why are they doing this?

• 17:29Speaker 06

  I know, in New Jersey.

• 17:31Jessie Ware?

  Gladiator just came out, so like, they did it in that maybe, did they?

• 17:35Speaker 06

  I know, it's a really niche and, and with the onslaught of off-track betting and, uh, what is this called?

• 17:43Speaker 04

  Oh, so you bet on it?

• 17:43Jessie Ware?

  You bet?

• 17:44Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 17:45Speaker 04

  Oh, wow.

• 17:46Speaker 06

  This was complex.

• 17:47Jessie Ware?

  Okay, now I'm in.

• 17:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, right?

• 17:49Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 17:49Speaker 06

  And this was complex for my dad because he grew up Mennonite and with the father who's a Mennonite preacher.

• 17:54Jessie Ware?

  Can you explain what Mennonite is?

• 17:56Speaker 06

  Mennonite is like watered-down Amish.

• 17:58Jessie Ware?

  Okay, got it.

• 17:59Speaker 04

  Crikey.

• 18:00Speaker 06

  I know, yeah, so they can ride, they can drive cars. It's almost like Footloose, where like, there's no, it's a kind of religious and there's no dancing and you wear kind of plain clothes. My grandmother had a little covering.

• 18:12Speaker 04

  Do you celebrate birthdays and things?

• 18:14Speaker 06

  You celebrate birthdays, but it's like...

• 18:16Speaker 04

  Christmas?

• 18:18Speaker 06

  You celebrate Christmas, but it's like, it's more religious-focused and, and very humble, like kind of farm-humble, you know, no one, it's like, it's, it's just like, um, kind of basic.

• 18:31Jessie Ware?

  So, growing up gay?

• 18:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 18:34Jessie Ware?

  Was that a conflict within your world of, yeah, your community?

• 18:39Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's interesting. So my, so my dad was Mennonite, my mom grew up Methodist. When my, so my dad was supposed to take over the dairy farm and be, and like do the cows, but he didn't like cows and his, his passion became horses, which was then horse racing, which is betting and gambling, which is not so like, accepted in the Mennonite church. So he married my mom and then he started going to the Methodist church, which is what I was raised in, which is more kind of like, it's a little less, little less like conservative.

• 19:11Jessie Ware?

  Right.

• 19:12Speaker 06

  Um, a little looser, but still like...

• 19:14Speaker 04

  Still quite conservative, yeah.

• 19:16Speaker 06

  But still religious, yeah. And I remember being 10 years old and the, with the preacher talking about like, gay being wrong and all of that. And my, my parents never said like, being gay is wrong. We never really talked about it, but it was always in the air. Obviously, there was in church, they were talking about it and... It was just the culture, like it wasn't until Will and Grace came out. That I started to see like, oh, wow, okay, maybe there, maybe there's. That was a huge sort of like touchstone for me, or when I started doing community theater in Pennsylvania. And started meeting gay people, I started to understand like, oh, you can be gay and be happy.

• 19:59Speaker 06

  And not, and not die of AIDS. It was like gay, gay meant like to, to me, growing up. Wrong, and it meant like death, and it meant it's like something to be afraid of. But in a, and I didn't come out until I was twenty three. And I, I didn't really, I had no sex during high school. I was sort of asexual. I wasn't, I didn't have girlfriends. But I was just really into theater.

• 20:29Speaker 06

  And very focused on my, my craft of acting. And then I moved to New York and I had my first boyfriend who was my roommate. And we were together for three and a half years in the closet, the whole time, all during Spring Awakening. Even though I was in New York and surrounded by people that were out and. Still, I wasn't quite ready and it wasn't until I. Left Spring Awakening that I came out to my parents and. My friends and then started living my life, but it took a while to kind of.

• 21:02Speaker 06

  Come to terms with it and it really wasn't until Looking, actually. That I was working on that show and living in San Francisco that I really felt that I. Fully started to embrace who I was. When I came out when I was twenty three. I was like, okay, I, I'm gonna come out. But I still feel a lot of shame and I still wish that I wasn't gay. Still wish like if I could change this, I would. But at this point, I know that I can't, so I'm gonna come out because. It feels insane to be twenty three years old and hiding who I am, so I, I came out, but. It wasn't until I was in my late twenties that I really started to love that part of myself.

• 21:39Jessie Ware?

  So, so you have this kind of, this pull for New York. You moved to New York quite young, don't you? And Will and Grace, New York, all of this. But then you still have this affinity with Pennsylvania.

• 21:52Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 21:52Jessie Ware?

  Because you, what do you love about your memories of childhood and particularly around food? You know, because obviously you haven't completely shunned that world. You love it and you're nostalgic for it and all of that and inspired by it.

• 22:06Speaker 06

  It's such an interesting thing because I feel like I, there's like videos of like my parents. My mom let me dress up as Mary Poppins when I was three years old for Halloween. And there's a video of me with like lipstick and a carpet bag that, you know, my mom obviously helped facilitate. This three year old being in full kind of impeccable drag on my grandparents' Mennonite farmhouse. She drove me over there before we went trick or treating and Wade, my grandfather's going, oh, Mary. Mary. And I'm there like, and he doesn't understand how funny it is, Mary, and I'm going to be gay.

• 22:48Speaker 06

  I feel like if they had thought in any way, there was like just this beautiful kind of like ignorance that they had, that my, that my parents had of like.

• 22:58Speaker 04

  Or innocence.

• 22:59Speaker 06

  Innocence.

• 23:00Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 23:00Speaker 06

  Innocence, exactly. Thank you. That's like a, that's a more generous way of putting it. It's like, this is just what Jonathan wants to do, so we're going to do it. They weren't, it would never have occurred to them that this was going to be a reflection of my sexuality in any way whatsoever. So there was this freedom that I had. If they had, if my, if my mom, if someone had told her like, he's going to be gay. This will like be a pathway to that. She might not have, because that homophobia and that racism and all of that is very just embedded in the culture there. It's a very kind of, you know, conservative area. There's not a lot of outside people in the place where they live.

• 23:42Speaker 06

  It's just sort of like innocent, an innocent pocket of Pennsylvania. And so I sort of, so what I love about Pennsylvania is, is my first memories are like.

• 23:55Speaker 06

  Oxygen of freedom and creativity and being Dorothy in my dad's barn and like all of that when I go home, I still feel that. And then right next to that, I also feel the I see the Trump flags and all of the kind of like staunch conservatism and the and the homophobia and the racism and the and they're both they're both sitting there. And I think part of part of me needed to leave and come to New York. Yeah, like on the surface, it was because I wanted to come here to to make a dream come true. And this is this is what I wanted to do. And I love it here. And I feel very at home here.

• 24:37Speaker 04

  Is this your home?

• 24:39Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 24:39Speaker 04

  More than LA?

• 24:41Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, I don't live in LA.

• 24:42Speaker 04

  Ever?

• 24:43Speaker 06

  Ever. I was there like for five years or so. But but no, yeah, New York is my home and also Pennsylvania. I I in 2019, I went back and bought a house in Pennsylvania because I I felt like once I came here and I sort of was able to become who I was, then I felt like I was ready to go back home and be who I was there. Could I be who I was there?

• 25:08Speaker 04

  And can you?

• 25:11Speaker 06

  It's not easy.

• 25:12Speaker 04

  Mm hmm.

• 25:13Speaker 06

  But yes, and it takes a lot of presence of mind to go home with love and acceptance. Like, for example, in in March of last year, there was a drag queen story hour in our local library in Lancaster that got bomb threats and they had to cancel it. And my friends that still live there reached out to me and they were like, Jonathan, this fucked up thing is happening. And I was doing merrily. We roll along at the time. But I made a date in the autumn in September of of last year to go there and host the drag queen story hour to like read to like make it happen there. And so we did the drag queen story hour and then we did a pride event that night.

• 25:59Speaker 06

  Hundreds of people at this pride event. And these like drag queens that live in Lancaster. And this, this trans couple that have been married for 25 years. And this trans woman has just transitioned and came out five years ago and they live in Lancaster. And I'm meeting all of these incredible people in this conservative town that I didn't know they were there when I was there. And it's so cool to go back now and find my tribe there. And, and still be there with my family. And so it's been a really fascinating, like,

• 26:39Speaker 06

  five or so years of integrating back and trying to like, reach back in a way and, and redefine what that area means to us. Part of why I went to make that artist retreat on my dad's farm is to, is to bring that energy. Cause I was kind of afraid to go back. But then I realized, no, I, I belong here too. And it's actually essential that I go back and I stick my pride flag in the cornfields of Pennsylvania. But it's, it's heated. It's also heated.

• 27:13Jessie Ware?

  Can you tell us about a memorable dish from your childhood?

• 27:17Speaker 06

  Yes, okay.

• 27:18Jessie Ware?

  So it's you and your brother, your mom and your dad. Who was cooking?

• 27:22Speaker 06

  So it's the pumpkin pie. Uh, the pumpkin pie, yeah. My mom's, as I salivate as I think about it.

• 27:29Jessie Ware?

  Are you hungry now?

• 27:30Speaker 06

  I'm always hungry.

• 27:31Jessie Ware?

  Okay, great.

• 27:31Speaker 06

  This is the other thing. It is?

• 27:33Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, this is the podcast.

• 27:34Speaker 06

  Yeah, great. Okay, amazing.

• 27:35Jessie Ware?

  Right. Oh, it's here?

• 27:37Speaker 06

  Oh my god, you just made it.

• 27:39Jessie Ware?

  Oh my, we're not just having fries, but that is a great.

• 27:41Speaker 06

  But that's a great.

• 27:42Jessie Ware?

  Thank you, my darling. Whilst you talk about your memorable dish, I'm gonna fix the salad and you can shove a fry in your mouth.

• 27:49Speaker 06

  Oh my god, okay, great. Look at that mountain of fries.

• 27:51Speaker 04

  I know. So does your mom make pumpkin pie just for Thanksgiving or on special occasions?

• 27:58Speaker 06

  Literally salivating as you're saying it. Yes, she does. It's, it's always for Thanksgiving. And then occasionally for, also for Christmas, but it's always for Thanksgiving. And it's her, the secret to her pumpkin pie is that she uses squash.

• 28:14Speaker 04

  Not pumpkin.

• 28:15Speaker 06

  Not pumpkin.

• 28:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:16Speaker 06

  So it's like a squash pumpkin pie. And it's got a kind of, kind of like thick consistency. It's like, it's like, and not in any way mushy. There's like a, it's like a solid. It's almost like a, like a cheesecake, like a really thick cheesecake level of solidness.

• 28:36Speaker 04

  But you'd have pumpkin pie with your savory or with your dessert?

• 28:40Speaker 06

  That's the dessert, yeah.

• 28:41Speaker 04

  Oh, it's as a dessert.

• 28:41Speaker 06

  It's the dessert.

• 28:42Speaker 04

  Does she put marshmallows or anything?

• 28:44Speaker 06

  So she puts the, like, she brings out the Cool Whip. It's so basic, but she has Cool Whip. Cool Whip, but I, I never have it with the Cool Whip because I like just the pumpkin pie itself. It's a homemade crust.

• 28:56Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 28:57Speaker 06

  With the pumpkin pie. And then everyone else is usually like putting, like, spreading Cool Whip on top and that's all.

• 29:02Speaker 04

  Is that a neutral flavor or do you have flavored Cool Whip?

• 29:07Speaker 06

  My god, the, the way that you.

• 29:08Speaker 04

  Is it white?

• 29:09Speaker 06

  The way that you say.

• 29:11Speaker 04

  I don't know what the.

• 29:11Speaker 06

  You don't know what Cool Whip is?

• 29:12Speaker 04

  No.

• 29:13Speaker 06

  Okay, oh yeah, I guess it's maybe like an American thing.

• 29:16Speaker 04

  Is it kind of like imitation cream?

• 29:19Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah.

• 29:20Speaker 04

  So it's.

• 29:20Speaker 06

  Am I grossing you out right now?

• 29:22Speaker 04

  No, no, no, I kind of like.

• 29:23Speaker 06

  You know what it's like?

• 29:24Speaker 04

  That synthetic cake.

• 29:26Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 29:26Speaker 04

  The stuff they put on cake.

• 29:27Speaker 06

  Well, it's a, it's like a little bit more, it's a whipped whipped cream.

• 29:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 29:31Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's like a whipped cream.

• 29:32Speaker 04

  Is it slightly sweet?

• 29:34Speaker 06

  It is, yeah, yeah.

• 29:35Speaker 04

  So what would be Thanksgiving dinner? Turkey?

• 29:39Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah, okay.

• 29:41Speaker 04

  From a local farm?

• 29:42Speaker 06

  Yes, turkey, turkey from like the local grocery store.

• 29:46Speaker 04

  Corn-fed, obvi- obviously.

• 29:48Speaker 06

  Come on.

• 29:51Speaker 04

  Yelling.

• 29:51Speaker 06

  I'm corn-fed, you know what I'm saying?

• 29:53Speaker 04

  You're corn-fed darling, yeah, absolutely.

• 29:55Speaker 06

  Corn-fed boy. It would be the turkey that she's, that she's putting in the oven. It would be the mashed potatoes that she's making. She also does like a really intense applesauce that my dad does not like because she puts a lot of cinnamon in the applesauce.

• 30:11Speaker 04

  Lovely.

• 30:12Speaker 06

  Yeah, salvating again. And then my aunt will bring.

• 30:17Speaker 06

  This actually might be my, my favorite thing is um baked carrots with like so much cheese in the carrots and this like breadcrumb.

• 30:28Jessie Ware?

  I never thought of doing that with carrots.

• 30:31Speaker 06

  Oh my god, it's so good.

• 30:32Jessie Ware?

  Is it delicious?

• 30:33Speaker 06

  It's so good. It's like a cream and a cheese mixed with like uh the carrots that are like chopped up like this. And then there's, and then there's like the bread, like the bread, you know, like on sometimes on mac and cheese. It's almost like mac and cheese, but with carrots.

• 30:48Jessie Ware?

  How fabulous.

• 30:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, that one's really good. Look at this gorgeous plate of food.

• 30:52Jessie Ware?

  Hey, listen.

• 30:53Speaker 06

  You've been slaving away.

• 30:54Jessie Ware?

  It's, it's, it's, I, I would have liked a little bit more chicken juice on it, but it's a, it's the Zuni Ca- oh, like San Francisco, Zuni Cafe. Do you remember the Zuni Cafe? Did you ever go?

• 31:04Speaker 06

  Of course.

• 31:05Jessie Ware?

  The chicken and bread salad. It's a recreation of that, which actually now I think about it was quite perfect for this. But you may break your veneers on the um. I won't. On the thing.

• 31:14Speaker 06

  Wait, that they do at the.

• 31:16Jessie Ware?

  At the cafe, but I wanted more chicken juice.

• 31:19Speaker 06

  Who made this right now?

• 31:21Jessie Ware?

  I did.

• 31:21Speaker 06

  You made this.

• 31:23Jessie Ware?

  No, it's come from Upper East Side.

• 31:25Speaker 06

  You made this and brought this to this.

• 31:28Jessie Ware?

  Yes, so it's not perfect, but it will kind of, it's the best we can do in a, in a, in a situation.

• 31:34Speaker 06

  I am completely blown away right now.

• 31:36Jessie Ware?

  It may need some more dressing or it may need less.

• 31:38Speaker 06

  May I have your plate to, to give you some of this?

• 31:41Jessie Ware?

  Just a little, thanks.

• 31:42Speaker 06

  I'll be mother. Isn't that a saying in England when you pour the milk into the tea? Can I get?

• 31:46Jessie Ware?

  Is that, is that a thing? I'll be mother. I don't know. I've never heard that expression.

• 31:50Speaker 06

  Chelsea, where you, I know I'll be mother and you don't know I'll be mother?

• 31:53Jessie Ware?

  I don't know I'll be mother.

• 31:57Speaker 06

  You don't know I'll be mother?

• 31:58Jessie Ware?

  I know mother, but I don't know I'll be mother. That's pouring the tea, darling.

• 32:04Jessie Ware?

  Oh my god, so many funny.

• 32:06Speaker 06

  I'll be mother. That's like, yeah, when you, when it's like, it's like a, I mean, I'm, I'm sort of like not using it in the correct way because I don't think it works for dish of food, but maybe it does.

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• 34:17Speaker 06

  This is so good and it's so healthy.

• 34:20Jessie Ware?

  Well, I thought about you with your voice because I'm so impressed because you were like, no dietary's and I'm like, he's on Broadway tonight, like, and here's you with an aperol. Your seconds will be the Negroni. You're the easiest customer.

• 34:35Speaker 06

  See if I make it to that, I'm hoping. I'm high homes.

• 34:38Jessie Ware?

  Great, good. I'm glad. I'm sad for the audience tonight.

• 34:43Speaker 04

  I think this is a great recipe.

• 34:45Jessie Ware?

  It is a great recipe, but I've done it before and there's a little bit more jus.

• 34:48Speaker 06

  Delicious.

• 34:49Speaker 04

  I don't hate this anymore, it'd be oiling.

• 34:53Speaker 06

  I agree. I'm not wanting more sauce.

• 34:55Jessie Ware?

  So, we ask all our guests what their last supper would be.

• 35:00Speaker 06

  Yes, okay.

• 35:01Jessie Ware?

  Start at main, pudding, drink.

• 35:04Speaker 06

  Okay, so the first thing that's coming up for me.

• 35:06Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 35:07Speaker 06

  I'm 19 years old.

• 35:08Jessie Ware?

  I feel like I'm in therapy with you.

• 35:11Speaker 06

  I do too.

• 35:11Jessie Ware?

  That felt very much, okay, great, I like this.

• 35:13Speaker 06

  I'm 19 years old, I'm waiting tables at the Chelsea Grill of Hell's Kitchen on 9th Avenue between 46th and 47th Street, and my staff meal, which you would get one for every shift.

• 35:28Speaker 04

  The family meal, did they call it?

• 35:29Speaker 06

  Yeah, exactly. You could pick whatever you wanted off the menu.

• 35:33Jessie Ware?

  Oh, okay.

• 35:34Speaker 06

  And so I, yeah, it wasn't like they were making it and handing it out. It was like, you get to pick one thing, and I would eat the Penne Ale of vodka with chicken.

• 35:44Speaker 04

  Mmm, with chicken?

• 35:46Speaker 06

  I know, yeah.

• 35:47Speaker 04

  I've never had Penne Ale of vodka with chicken.

• 35:50Jessie Ware?

  Was chicken on the side or?

• 35:51Speaker 06

  In it, like, mixed up in it.

• 35:53Jessie Ware?

  Was it delicious? Obviously.

• 35:55Speaker 06

  There was something, it's my last supper and it's like, it's, you know, it's not even necessarily the, I think what it would bring back for me if I was eating it as my last supper is that feeling of like...

• 36:09Speaker 06

  Bone exhaustion of waiting tables and like that was all I ate all day. Where you're like, that's just, that's like the meal. And there was something about, I'm salivating as I think about the the like vodka sauce that was in this particular, the way that the chef would do it. It was just, it made me feel so comforted. In a time when you move to the city and you're like, what am I doing here? And the constant rejection of auditions and waiting tables and an array of like kind people and rude people and tipping and not tipping. And I would sit with that pasta and that chicken and it would like

• 36:53Speaker 06

  make me feel home or like comforted. There was like a great comfort in eating that meal. So that would be my last supper.

• 37:02Jessie Ware?

  Did you get rejected a lot? I don't feel like, I don't believe this.

• 37:05Speaker 06

  Oh my god, oh yeah. Oh yeah. Hundreds of auditions. I would go to open calls. You know, I moved here when I was 19 and I would

• 37:15Speaker 06

  I would go, yeah, I would, sometimes I would go, cause like at the regional theaters, they'll do like days for dancers and then the next day it's a singer call and there's the callbacks. And some days I would, one day I would go to like the dancer call and I would get cut. And then I would call myself back to sing and go to the singer call for the same theater.

• 37:33Jessie Ware?

  Me again.

• 37:33Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 37:36Jessie Ware?

  Did it ever work out?

• 37:37Speaker 06

  Uh, not, it didn't, it didn't work out a lot. And the, the job I got my equity card on, I waited for over two days to be seen for the show, Fame, Fame the Musical at North Shore Music Theater. I waited all day on Saturday. I waited all day on Sunday. And then at the very end, they were seeing people that weren't in the union. And I brought my trumpet, cause there was a character that played the trumpet and I played the trumpet when I was in middle school. And so I was like trying, you know, pounding the pavement, like they say, trying to get jobs.

• 38:08Jessie Ware?

  And now you have things written for you and developed for you. Like just in time. How far you've come, girl.

• 38:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 38:17Speaker 06

  Twenty years later.

• 38:18Speaker 04

  Are you still going to be Kristoff if they make another?

• 38:21Speaker 06

  I hope so.

• 38:21Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, of course. Have you started doing the Frozen three?

• 38:25Speaker 06

  I've heard it's happening. They've announced it. They said it's happening.

• 38:28Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 38:28Speaker 06

  But I haven't seen the script or I don't know anything about it yet. Jennifer Lee, who directed, co-directed and co-wrote Frozen one and two, is a dear friend. I set her up with her husband.

• 38:43Jessie Ware?

  Well, then you have to be in the third.

• 38:45Speaker 04

  Of course you'll be in it.

• 38:46Jessie Ware?

  That'd be, that would be very good, Lou. Yeah. That'd be very, yeah, well done, Jonathan.

• 38:52Speaker 04

  Very good.

• 38:53Jessie Ware?

  Forget about the trumpet.

• 38:56Speaker 04

  Just match, mate.

• 38:57Speaker 06

  Forget about that. Yeah, that was my, that was my first of three marriages that I set up.

• 39:04Jessie Ware?

  Oh. So you're single. But you're single.

• 39:09Speaker 06

  I'm so single.

• 39:10Jessie Ware?

  What's going on then, Jonathan?

• 39:11Speaker 04

  Yeah, what is going on?

• 39:12Speaker 06

  I don't know. I don't know. It just hasn't worked out.

• 39:15Speaker 04

  The most gorgeous face and eyes.

• 39:16Speaker 06

  Oh, my God.

• 39:17Speaker 04

  Sit there on his own.

• 39:18Speaker 06

  That's so sweet of you to say that. It just hasn't worked out.

• 39:22Jessie Ware?

  But you're fine.

• 39:23Speaker 04

  It will.

• 39:24Speaker 06

  I am, I'm, I, I, I enjoy being alone. I love being in love. But it just hasn't, it hasn't panned out.

• 39:33Speaker 04

  Yeah, but you've, it's not like you've never been in a relationship.

• 39:36Speaker 06

  No, no, I've had great relationships. Yeah. It's, yeah, it's just, it's one of those, it's just one of those things. I feel like timing is such a big part of relationships. And the last couple that I've sort of like had, it, there was something about it just like wasn't the right time.

• 39:58Speaker 04

  But you're also working every night because you're in the theatre.

• 40:01Speaker 06

  That's part of it, too.

• 40:02Speaker 04

  It's difficult, don't you think?

• 40:05Speaker 06

  I also really like.

• 40:08Speaker 06

  I love what I do so much.

• 40:10Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:11Speaker 06

  And it's a huge.

• 40:12Speaker 04

  All consuming.

• 40:13Speaker 06

  Yeah, it's just a big passion.

• 40:15Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 40:15Speaker 06

  And finding someone that understands that and can like exist with that with me has been challenging.

• 40:27Speaker 04

  It's tough.

• 40:27Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:29Speaker 04

  And it was, it's going to be all lunch dates at the end, isn't it?

• 40:32Speaker 06

  That's exactly right.

• 40:34Speaker 04

  He's out every night.

• 40:35Speaker 06

  That's exactly right.

• 40:36Speaker 04

  Maybe you need to find some really good lunch spots, romantic lunch spot. Where are some of your lunch spots in New York?

• 40:46Speaker 06

  Oh, my God, great question.

• 40:51Speaker 06

  The, the, well, Westville is a chain in the city that I like, I'm such a basic, I'm such a basic queen.

• 40:59Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 41:00Speaker 06

  Westville is like a chain in New York that I often order from or go to lunch to. It's just sort of like basic protein, vegetables, whatever, healthy, clean eating. Since February, since the beginning of February, when we started rehearsal for Justin Time for the first time, I did a meal delivery service.

• 41:22Speaker 04

  Ah.

• 41:23Speaker 06

  So for the last three months, I've had breakfast, lunch and dinner.

• 41:26Speaker 04

  Delivered.

• 41:27Speaker 06

  Delivered in a little cardboard thing.

• 41:29Speaker 04

  I'm so sorry, Jonathan, so depressing. The meal's in a cardboard box.

• 41:34Speaker 06

  I know, it's, I'm, I'm.

• 41:36Speaker 04

  Have you got a good one, though?

• 41:37Speaker 06

  It's so good, yeah.

• 41:38Speaker 04

  Oh, that's all right, then.

• 41:39Speaker 06

  It's called Daily Dose, they like, it's, it tastes amazing.

• 41:42Speaker 04

  Daily Dose?

• 41:43Speaker 06

  Yeah, I also am such a like, basic person. I, I love a great meal, but I can eat anything.

• 41:52Speaker 04

  Anything.

• 41:53Speaker 06

  Rubbish, yeah, were you gonna say rubbish?

• 41:54Speaker 04

  No, but which, which protein would you have, which would be your?

• 41:58Speaker 06

  God, you are so cute.

• 41:59Speaker 04

  Do the protein thing, which I don't understand. Well, no, it's literally just chicken, fish or, you know, yeah. But which would be yours?

• 42:06Speaker 06

  Steak.

• 42:06Speaker 04

  Um. Steak.

• 42:08Speaker 06

  Oh, no, which would be mine?

• 42:10Jessie Ware?

  Chicken, because you're lean and you're a gay man and you're on stage and you have to be in your bathrobe.

• 42:14Speaker 06

  And a vodka soda, just gay water and chicken.

• 42:18Jessie Ware?

  We call it a skinny bitch.

• 42:19Speaker 06

  A skinny bitch.

• 42:20Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, skinny bitch.

• 42:23Speaker 06

  I know, my drink is whiskey. That's like, that's the one, that's my like go to.

• 42:27Jessie Ware?

  Oh, you're surprising me.

• 42:29Speaker 06

  Well, during the day, I mean, I'm kind of a garbage pale alcohol drinker. I will literally drink anything. During the day, it's more this.

• 42:36Jessie Ware?

  Fine, gorgeous.

• 42:37Speaker 06

  In the evening, I'll go for a Negroni, but.

• 42:39Jessie Ware?

  Sure. Lachim?

• 42:41Speaker 06

  Lachim, we opened the show.

• 42:42Jessie Ware?

  What's your whiskey?

• 42:45Speaker 06

  Okay, so I'm, I am, I am very basic queen as well, and then I'm obsessed with Beyonce. I would say that Beyonce is my, I'm wearing a Beyonce shirt right now.

• 42:56Jessie Ware?

  Is every gay man obsessed with Beyonce?

• 42:58Speaker 06

  Beyonce, yes. I would say that Beyonce is the closest thing to religion that I have for myself. I, I'm so deeply obsessed, so.

• 43:10Jessie Ware?

  Have you met her?

• 43:11Speaker 06

  She came to see Hamilton.

• 43:14Speaker 06

  And it was.

• 43:15Jessie Ware?

  What did you do? Did you meet her?

• 43:21Jessie Ware?

  Did you freak out? Speak.

• 43:22Speaker 06

  I can't, I couldn't speak. I couldn't speak.

• 43:26Speaker 06

  Like, so many famous people came to see Hamilton.

• 43:28Jessie Ware?

  And it was amazing.

• 43:30Speaker 06

  It was an amazing show. It was an amazing experience.

• 43:32Jessie Ware?

  And you had this comedy role.

• 43:33Speaker 06

  Yes, yes.

• 43:35Jessie Ware?

  It was not the main role, but you made every second. It was fantastic. You were King George.

• 43:40Speaker 06

  King George, yes.

• 43:41Jessie Ware?

  Amazing.

• 43:42Speaker 06

  And the, like, famous people would come and it would be like, which ten, from the, from politics, from music, from film, from theater, it was like from every walk of the, of the, of every industry. It was like, all these people were coming to see Hamilton. And two times, and so after the show, it was like fifty people on stage, the whole cast and whatever. It was every single night. So many people. It was, it was so strange.

• 44:08Jessie Ware?

  The hottest ticket.

• 44:09Speaker 06

  Yeah, it was crazy.

• 44:10Jessie Ware?

  When you were performing, if you looked out, could you spot them?

• 44:13Speaker 06

  No.

• 44:14Jessie Ware?

  Is that good?

• 44:15Speaker 06

  It was good for me, yeah. Yeah, the lights continued. Unlike just the time where I can, literally, I could see them.

• 44:21Jessie Ware?

  Yeah.

• 44:21Speaker 06

  You like kissing me with your mouth, which was heaven. And now I'm learning to love all of that. Two times, two people came on stage and everyone was silent. And it was when Obama came to see Hamilton and was on stage and you could hear a pin drop. And when Beyonce and Jay-Z came to see Hamilton and they were on stage.

• 44:43Jessie Ware?

  When you say onstage, it means after the show.

• 44:45Speaker 06

  After the show.

• 44:46Jessie Ware?

  They come and meet you onstage.

• 44:47Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 44:47Jessie Ware?

  They didn't like do a number.

• 44:48Speaker 06

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 44:49Jessie Ware?

  Barack is coming and doing like.

• 44:51Speaker 06

  He's so fierce.

• 44:52Jessie Ware?

  Not gonna do it. Fine, shut. Yeah, he's not gonna do that.

• 44:55Speaker 06

  That would be amazing.

• 44:56Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, okay.

• 44:59Speaker 06

  And Beyonce was there and I was kind of hanging back, letting everybody talk to Beyonce.

• 45:05Jessie Ware?

  That's chic of you.

• 45:06Speaker 06

  Well, you know, like you said, I'm in it for nine minutes, like the one, like the white guy from Hamilton is not who like Beyonce and Jay-Z are trying to meet. So I'm like letting it all happen. And she was speaking to Pippa and Jasmine and Renee, who were playing the Skylar sisters. And then they kind of walked away and there was this moment where she was like.

• 45:27Speaker 06

  Okay, like it was kind of like a transitional moment. And I went in there. And I was like, hi, I'm Jonathan. I'm just sad to say I'm such a huge fan. And she took my hand and she said, were you the king?

• 45:45Speaker 06

  And I said, yes. And then she said, I'm gonna steal your walk. And she backed up like six feet and did an impression of the way that I walked onto the stage.

• 45:59Jessie Ware?

  She'd washed your whole body.

• 46:01Speaker 06

  And, yes, and then. I was like, I was like. And then she said, and when you exited and you moved your shoulders, but not your head. You were your own turntable. There's a turntable on the stage. And I was like, I, I, I went.

• 46:24Speaker 06

  I just moaned and then she looked me up and down and said, I saw everything.

• 46:31Speaker 06

  And the next night, and I knew when she did the impression of the walk out, I I kinda knew what she was talking about. That was something I was conscious of. But the next night, I was on stage, I was doing it, and I was leaving the stage. I was like, oh my god, I am, I didn't even consciously know. I would do this thing where I would turn my body, and I would keep my head forward, and I would find one head, because I couldn't quite see faces, and look them up and down, and then exit. Was something that, it was like, I was doing as the character, but I wasn't consciously thinking. And it's, it's a nanosecond of a moment. And that, I was like Beyonce's eye,

• 47:11Speaker 06

  that she spotted that and collected it, and then delivered it back to me was so mind blowing. It was mind blowing.

• 47:21Jessie Ware?

  That's a great Beyonce star. Um, we need to get back to your last supper.

• 47:26Speaker 06

  Okay, yeah, oh right.

• 47:27Jessie Ware?

  We got your main. Hell's Kitchen.

• 47:30Speaker 06

  Penjellavaka with chicken.

• 47:31Jessie Ware?

  Chelsea Grill.

• 47:32Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 47:33Jessie Ware?

  What's your starter?

• 47:36Speaker 06

  The salad at Gemma. What's it called? Like, it's, it's like an Italian name, but it's got, it's like, I'm salivating.

• 47:45Jessie Ware?

  You salivate a lot, the wet performer.

• 47:47Speaker 06

  I'm a wet man. The fluids come. What can I say?

• 47:54Speaker 06

  It's got like anchovies on it, it's got kale. It's got, it's got, I wanna say like pomegranate maybe in it? There's like a fruit element? And like a, like a cheese on it as well. I can't remember the name of it. But it's a starter salad at Gemma. That would be my starter.

• 48:13Jessie Ware?

  So we've got starter at Gemma.

• 48:15Speaker 06

  Leading into the Penjellavaka, that's gonna be so good.

• 48:17Jessie Ware?

  Fabulous. Then we going for the pudding? Is it gonna be your mum's pumpkin pie?

• 48:21Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 48:22Jessie Ware?

  And what drink? Are we going for whiskey?

• 48:27Speaker 06

  I can only have one drink with all of this.

• 48:29Jessie Ware?

  No, you can have whatever you want.

• 48:30Speaker 04

  Keep going all day.

• 48:33Speaker 04

  I would if I were going on a death of a.

• 48:34Jessie Ware?

  That's what Lenny's been doing all week.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  Quite honestly, yeah. Whatever gets you through, darling.

• 48:40Speaker 06

  Whatever gets you through. Talk about it. Um, I think I would start with an Aperol spritz.

• 48:48Jessie Ware?

  Okay.

• 48:49Speaker 06

  I would move to like a full bodied red for the Penneola vodka with chicken. And then I would go to like a

• 49:00Speaker 06

  um, Boulevardier.

• 49:02Jessie Ware?

  What's that?

• 49:03Speaker 06

  Which is like a, it's like a whisk, it's almost like a Negroni with whiskey.

• 49:07Jessie Ware?

  Ooh.

• 49:08Speaker 04

  Have you heard of this?

• 49:09Jessie Ware?

  No.

• 49:10Speaker 06

  I think it's Campari and whiskey and sweet vermouth.

• 49:15Jessie Ware?

  That's a bit me.

• 49:16Speaker 04

  Where have you drunk this?

• 49:17Speaker 06

  Celebrating again.

• 49:17Jessie Ware?

  Oh, my God.

• 49:18Speaker 06

  Celebrating for the Boulevardier. That was the COVID, the drink I learned about in COVID. I also do love a paper plane.

• 49:25Jessie Ware?

  What's a paper plane, babe?

• 49:26Speaker 06

  Paper plane is like a whiskey Aperol drink.

• 49:30Jessie Ware?

  Well, you like a shit mix, don't you? So, so Anna Wintour was in the audience last night. Are you getting an invite to the Met or anything?

• 49:39Speaker 04

  You must be going.

• 49:40Jessie Ware?

  She just saying how you looked in a suit.

• 49:42Speaker 06

  She, she, like, she's a huge, she's at every opening night, by the way. I mean, I'm honored that she was there, but it's not, it wasn't just for our show. She is such a theater queen and theater supporter. And she goes to every opening night.

• 49:57Jessie Ware?

  Fantastic.

• 49:58Speaker 06

  And she supports and loves the theater and her daughter, Bee.

• 50:02Speaker 04

  Who was with her, I think.

• 50:03Speaker 06

  Was she with her last night?

• 50:04Speaker 04

  Well, she had a daughter with long dark.

• 50:06Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, that's me.

• 50:07Speaker 04

  Yes, I thought it was her daughter.

• 50:09Speaker 06

  Okay, I love Bee. Bee, I've known, we were, we're around the same age. I sang at Bee's wedding.

• 50:15Jessie Ware?

  Oh, wow.

• 50:16Speaker 06

  And Bee came to see our Bobby Darin night at the 92nd Street Y eight years, or seven years ago. And Bee was one of the first people that said, this needs to be a Broadway show.

• 50:28Speaker 04

  Like, what, like? She was very smiley.

• 50:30Speaker 06

  Oh, yeah.

• 50:31Speaker 04

  Yeah, she smiled throughout. I watched, yeah.

• 50:34Jessie Ware?

  I have to say, Jonathan, I don't think many performers could do what you did last night. And yes, the, the, the cast is incredible, but that ease that you put everyone in when they watch you perform, it's. You're untouchable in that sense, like it's just, it's a joy to watch you.

• 50:52Speaker 04

  And it's an amazing.

• 50:52Jessie Ware?

  And to enjoy you and to see you enjoying yourself and it's just.

• 50:56Speaker 04

  But I think you make such an amazing connection. People feel connected with you.

• 51:01Speaker 06

  I just love it so much and I I really love the audience. I love the audience. I love the attentive audience. I love the sleeping audience member. I love the coughing audience member. I love the audience member where the cell phone's going off. They're there. They're there. And I remember feeling this a lot during Merrily, like the more I do it and the more experiences I have on Broadway, the more I love them. And the more I I like, respect them and the more gratitude. I feel more gratitude now than I than I ever have. For them, it's like to to spend money to buy a ticket.

• 51:44Speaker 06

  You know, it's like with all of that with our phones and our computers and everything to go. And I'm sure you feel this way too when you do a concert. It's like these people are coming out to have a live experience and it's just so, it's such rare air in our in our culture and in our world.

• 52:01Speaker 04

  Not in New York.

• 52:02Speaker 06

  I mean, it's, you're right. No, it's Broadway. Like it is. It's a part of like this city. It always has been. But in the in in just like where we're moving with AI and with, you know, just even even the time that we were in in the pandemic and we got really attached to how we can survive with our screens. There's just, there's this magic about the live experience and like some nights I dance with the audience and a couple of times people refuse to dance with me.

• 52:30Jessie Ware?

  Oh, so how do you deal with that?

• 52:31Speaker 06

  And I love them too. So I just sit next to them and I put my arm around them and sing them a song. It's like, to me, the audience can do no wrong. And it's and and and it's like it the the love. Like surprisingly, I'm sort of surprised by it. It just gets deeper and bigger. It's such a cool.

• 52:50Speaker 04

  It's because you respect your audience. What you're talking about is respect and they feel it.

• 52:55Speaker 06

  Exactly.

• 52:56Speaker 04

  And appreciated.

• 52:57Speaker 06

  And maybe it's because I also, I love being in the audience. I love, I love being in the audience as much as I love being on stage.

• 53:04Jessie Ware?

  So we're gonna give you some pudding now. Well, dessert. Pudding. Jake is. Jake is. Jake, get on the mic and tell us, tell Jonathan what it is, please.

• 53:13Speaker 06

  How to Jake. Squeeze, get on the mic.

• 53:16Speaker 05

  I'm gonna sit on Lenny's lap.

• 53:17Speaker 06

  Yes.

• 53:19Speaker 05

  We've got halva stuffed dates covered in chocolate, a little flaky salt.

• 53:24Speaker 05

  A little easy, quick.

• 53:25Speaker 06

  Wait, say it again.

• 53:26Speaker 05

  Halva stuffed dates.

• 53:28Speaker 06

  Halva?

• 53:28Speaker 05

  Halva. Like the sesame candy?

• 53:31Speaker 06

  I have no idea what halva is.

• 53:32Speaker 05

  Beautiful. So imagine like cotton candy, but made with sesame. So like pretty much like blend sesame.

• 53:41Jessie Ware?

  Let's go.

• 53:44Jessie Ware?

  How wet can you get on there?

• 53:45Speaker 06

  Oh, we're all gonna have one.

• 53:47Jessie Ware?

  They look beautiful.

• 53:48Speaker 05

  Thank you.

• 53:49Speaker 06

  Okay, here we go.

• 53:52Speaker 06

  My god.

• 53:54Speaker 05

  It's always the first bite.

• 53:57Jessie Ware?

  Thank you, Jake, and that was the best.

• 53:59Speaker 05

  My pleasure.

• 54:00Speaker 06

  So good.

• 54:01Speaker 04

  Jonathan, once you'd done looking and you kind of were more out as a gay man, did you think that would alter people's perspective and that you wouldn't be able to play straight parts? Was that a worry?

• 54:16Speaker 06

  Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, I, when I, when I came out publicly, I came out of the closet publicly when I was twenty

• 54:26Speaker 06

  three or twenty-four and I was dating this actor who just passed last year named Gavin Creel.

• 54:34Speaker 06

  And.

• 54:36Speaker 06

  He was leading this march on Washington for gay marriage. He started, he co-founded this organization called Broadway Impact. And he took all these buses from New York to Washington DC for this part of this march. And we were dating each other at the time and I was so in love with him. And I was out to my friends and family, but I just, the occasion to come out publicly had not happened yet.

• 55:00Speaker 06

  And it then there it presented itself in Washington DC in that moment in an interview. And I remember the moment of like looking over at him and he had a bullhorn. Like he was like, like crowd control over here, orchestrated this whole thing. And I remember feeling like the love that I feel for him is so much deeper than any job I could ever wish to have. And making the choice, I'm gonna choose love over whatever idea of what I would want my career to be. I'm gonna come out of the closet. Cause it did feel like in, in two thousand and eight or nine, that that was the case at that time.

• 55:39Speaker 06

  That you, that you were making a choice to either be in the closet and have more opportunities in your career or come out and have a, and have less opportunities. And I, I made that decision with love and I was like, I'm not gonna be in film and television and I, I'm okay with that. I'd rather be in love and be myself. And so I made that choice then, and then Looking happened of like five years later. And when that opportunity came up, I thought, wow, okay. I'm really driving the nail into the coffin here of like ever playing anything, anything other than gay. Yeah. And I felt like, yeah, cause it's one thing to be out of the closet

• 56:23Speaker 06

  and then it's one thing to like anally douche on film for all to see.

• 56:28Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 56:29Speaker 06

  To really sear it into people's minds that I am a homosexual. And I thought, I really, Andrew Haig, who directed the movie Weekend, I just loved his movie so much. And Michael Lannon, who created that show, I just really believed in what they were doing. And I felt like this means more to me than. Some idea of what could be and really thought, I'm okay with it. I'll just be gay and everything. It's fine. And then these, these opportunities in the last 10 years that have happened, like Mindhunter and the Matrix movie and even playing in Merrily We Roll Along, this straight, even though it's a musical, a sauna musical written by gays, this like straight leading man character and now Bobby Darin,

• 57:14Speaker 06

  never would have imagined that I would get these opportunities. And so it's, it's like, it speaks to the time that we're in. In, in, in 2025, like there's still so much more to go, obviously. But there has been this wave of progress that's allowed me to have this career. And it's, it's total timing, luck of timing. But I, I really was, was consciously making the choice to be myself and make the sacrifice as the, or not even make the sacrifice, but just you choose your path. And I, these, these opportunities that have come after making those choices have been a total surprise to me.

• 57:53Jessie Ware?

  Before we let you go to stage, can you give us a nostalgic taste that can transport you back somewhere, happy or sad?

• 58:07Speaker 06

  Okay, it's, it's black raspberry ice cream at the Creamery on Main Street in Strasburg, Pennsylvania. Yeah. Where I was like, that was, that was like the, I can imagine, I can smell the waffle cone. This is like, I'm maybe three, four or five years old. I can smell the waffle cone and I can see, it was also my dad's favorite flavor of ice cream. So it's, I can see the like, purple was also my favorite color as a kid. So I can see the like cartoon of the black raspberry, like purple thing in the waffle cone.

• 58:49Speaker 06

  I can smell the cones being made in the Creamery. And then having the cone with my dad, the taste of the black raspberry ice cream, like a kind of like pure childhood memory.

• 59:04Jessie Ware?

  Jonathan Groff, I don't want to let you go. No. But we must let you get to.

• 59:07Speaker 06

  You never have.

• 59:08Jessie Ware?

  You're a dawning fan.

• 59:09Speaker 06

  But in a profound way, you're never letting me go.

• 59:11Jessie Ware?

  No, I'm not.

• 59:11Speaker 06

  Because we're lifers.

• 59:12Jessie Ware?

  Yeah, we are.

• 59:13Speaker 06

  We're lifers.

• 59:14Jessie Ware?

  Thank you for doing the podcast. Yeah.

• 59:15Speaker 06

  Thank you for having me. What an honour.

• 59:18Jessie Ware?

  You can come again whenever you want.

• 59:19Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh. Please.

• 59:21Jessie Ware?

  And best of luck for the rest of the run.

• 59:23Speaker 06

  Thank you.

• 59:24Jessie Ware?

  It's so fantastic. And we can't wait for you to win that Tony Award for this.

• 59:28Speaker 06

  Oh, my gosh. Thank you so much for having me. It's such a pleasure to sit and chat with you. Thank you so much for coming to opening night. It meant the world to have you there.

• 59:35Jessie Ware?

  I loved it.

• 59:50Jessie Ware?

  I loved Jonathan Groff so much. Me too. He's heaven. Absolutely gorgeous. I think he's so generous when he talks. Oh. And he tells you things about himself in a very honest way. I feel like regardless of if you're a musical theatre fan or not, like to be able to watch Jonathan Groff on stage, he's a legend already on stage. If you get the chance to come and see him as Bobby Darin in Just in Time, you really should. It's a really, not that he needed a career-defining performance, but this is just, it's completely charming and brilliant and an exciting production. And you can just see how much fun they're having with it. And I actually really think I'm going to come back and see it again.

• 1:00:35Jessie Ware?

  Can I come? Yeah, yes. Yes, you can. Jake wants me back. No, I know. I know. And that's the reason I won't be allowed in the apartment unless you're on with Lenny. Please go and see Just in Time. It's at the Circle in the Square on Broadway, and it's absolutely brilliant. It's a gorgeous theatre as well. Yeah, it's fab. Thank you for listening. We'll be back with another New York special next week.

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