My 9 Step Blueprint To Making $1M (w/ Simon Squibb) | Ep 785

Welcome to The Game w/ Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth. Wanna scale your business? Click here. Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials: LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:01Alex Hormozi?

  When we say, "I want to be successful," success is about sticking with it. And so, the only way that you become a failure in business is by stopping. All the games worth playing in life, in my opinion, are all infinite. It's not about getting married, it's about staying married. It's not about getting in shape, it's about staying in shape. It's not about starting a business, it's about staying in business. And the only thing that gets you out of business is you choosing to stop. And I think that's a very powerful friend because it puts it 100% in your control. And so, as long as you keep trying, you're still in business.

• 0:25Alex Hormozi?

  Have you ever heard the saying, "be, do, have"? Have you heard of this? Yep. I hate it because people are like, "You have to become this type of person to do this type of stuff to have this thing." But if the doing creates the having, then we don't need to worry about having because doing is the actual thing we control. And if we describe someone only by their behaviors they do, then being also happens as a result of doing, which means it's just do. So Nike's always had it right.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  It's true, though, yeah. So tell us how people figure out who they are and what's the process people need to go through.

• 0:54Alex Hormozi?

  So I think there's a lot of confusion around identity. I think a lot of it is around like, "I want to have these traits." Or like, "I wish I were born with, I wish I were more charismatic, I wish I were more patient." I don't think people translate them into the behaviors that create the trait. And so, the traits themselves are just bundled terms. So let's say someone's charismatic. They're like, "I want to be charismatic." All right, well, if I look at somebody and say, "Cool, be charismatic." Someone would just stare back like, "How?", right?

• 1:22Speaker 01

  We need to smile. It's crazy.

• 1:24Alex Hormozi?

  No, but that's, and so what's interesting is that you've already went to start translating it. But charisma, patience, a lot of these things are what I call bundled terms. And so, they're single words that actually have a series of behaviors underneath them that when we see them in the wild, we then describe that person as charismatic. So they nod up and down when you talk. They increase the volume of when they talk. And they have different tonalities, as in like, they go up and then they go down, they speed up, they emphasize words. It's basically looking at all of these micro-behaviors. And if you do all of these things, they shake hands firmly, they make eye contact, all of these things, then it's like, "Oh, so I don't need to try and be charismatic. I just need to nod when people are talking. I need to repeat back to them what they just said. I need to smile when they walk in the room."

• 2:10Alex Hormozi?

  I need to be able to enunciate and speak with volume and not just be monotone. I need to be able to go up and down and up and down and speed up and slow down when it's important. I need to shake people's hands with confidence. I need to make eye contact. If I do those things, other people will describe me as charismatic. And so when I look at, you know, the version of who I would like to be, I say, what are the traits that I think of? And then what are the behaviors that associate with those traits? And then that way it makes something that seems unattainable, like, man, I wish I were more X. So well, you can be that if you just think what must occur in order for someone to describe someone as this thing. And so that's been honestly, one of the big things that like, it really changed my life because a lot of these things feel like out of your control. It's like, I wish, but it's just a lot of times we just break skills out. It's the same thing when we're teaching someone, hey, build a company.

• 2:54Alex Hormozi?

  You can go do that because you have, because that would be like a big bundled thing. Can you just go build a company? Sure, I can. Now leveled down one, it's like, okay, so do you know how to advertise? Do you know how to sell? Do you know how to create a product or a service? Do you know how to hire people? It's like all of those are bundled skills underneath. And you can basically derive everything all the way down to turn on the computer, turn on Internet Explorer, type in a website. And so at every level, whenever someone gets confused about what to do, it's like, just break it down. And that's fundamentally how we like to train teams, but also it started with me, which is like, who, what do I need to do?

• 3:22Speaker 01

  It's my thing about entrepreneurship that kind of like, anyone can be an entrepreneur.

• 3:26Alex Hormozi?

  True.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  And people get really annoyed me when I say that. Oh, no, it's, it's tough, you know, you've got to worry about cash flow. Well, if you can't get a good accountant, you know, like, you know, I, I think it's interesting because people always have a reason why it's such a bloody hard thing to do. And if you break it down like this, it's not.

• 3:40Alex Hormozi?

  Right.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  This thing of who you are though, is it a genetics thing though as well? Like maybe some people just can't be charismatic. Maybe they can't smile. I mean, you know what I mean? Like it's, it's my, my wife is, and she, she never listens to this stuff, so I can say this. I wouldn't describe her as charismatic. I'd describe her as beautiful and intelligent.

• 3:56Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 3:57Speaker 01

  But she doesn't, she doesn't really bother shaking hands, but it's just who she is, you know? So do you think this is a personality thing?

• 4:03Alex Hormozi?

  No, I think a hundred percent of people can learn.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 4:05Alex Hormozi?

  I mean, I have a fundamental belief about the world, which is all things are trainable. It's just that not all things are worth training.

• 4:10Speaker 01

  You've got to be motivated to be to turn it.

• 4:12Alex Hormozi?

  I think about it from a return on resources. So it's like, even if like, I think is a, I, I believe someone genuinely with Down's syndrome could learn to become, or at least rather, learn to do brain surgery. Would the amount of resources required in order to teach that person be a good use of resources? Probably not. If intelligence is rate of learning, then it's the rate of behavior change. Like, how quickly can we get someone to change behavior? At least for me, that's how I define intelligence. And so if I were to train my team and say, hey, do this thing, and the next time they walk in, they do that new thing, under the same conditions, they've learned quickly. They're a more intelligent person. I think it's simply that the rate of learning differs between people, but all people are trainable. That's how we learn everything.

• 4:47Speaker 01

  So, so, so concluding this bit, I mean, who you are is who you, what you want to be, is it? So, so that goes back to modeling yourself and perhaps the people you admire, or the people you have the life you want, and then go learn what they know.

• 4:57Alex Hormozi?

  Mm hmm. And do what they do. I'll actually give a, a one that I think is helpful for a lot of people. It's like, it's making sure that we're doing the things that they did at that stage. And so, you know, if you want to become a billionaire, it doesn't mean go fly on private jets, because billionaires fly on private jets. If you want to become tall, it doesn't mean you go play basketball. And so it's, it's conflating what, like, what was the cause? What was the effect? Right? And so, we want to not model where people are today and how they act today, but we want to model the rise. We want to model what they did at the beginning. And so one of the tough parts about that is, usually when you're in the grind, like, one of my biggest regrets in the world is that I have zero sales that I had recorded when I was in person. And I have over 4,001,111 sales that I had done. And all the stuff I learned there, I never had any recordings. And so it's like,

• 5:41Alex Hormozi?

  because I didn't think, oh, I'm gonna later someday in the future have a YouTube channel, and I'm gonna be teaching this stuff. I was like, just trying to sell memberships.

• 5:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, fair.

• 5:49Alex Hormozi?

  You know what I mean? And so I, I say that because I try and remember to the best of my ability, and I do that through teaching, you know, our teams and whatnot, like, hey, do this and do this. And so, we do our best to remind everyone who's coming up, like, this is what I was doing. Don't look at what I'm doing now. Look at what I was doing then.

• 6:04Speaker 01

  I, I think, yeah, that doing things so powerful, because that's how also you remember. You can, you can hear someone tell you how to do something. You can listen to this video, but if you don't go out and apply it, you probably won't remember it.

• 6:15Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, well, yeah, nothing will happen. That's the good thing to you.

• 6:18Speaker 01

  So it's a good place to start. You can be anything, maybe decide what you want to be. I mean, a lot of people in sales, for example, say, oh, you need to be an extrovert to do sales. I'm like, my biggest salesperson in my last company was my accountant. No one more introverted. And do you know what? Because she was introverted, she was slightly more trusted.

• 6:32Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 6:33Speaker 01

  Because she would only say things that people, she'd go to a meeting with other CFOs and talk about how brilliant our company was.

• 6:38Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 6:38Speaker 01

  Those CFOs who were also introverted would go back to the office, talk to the CEO and say, you should get Simon's company in because I just heard from the CFO what they're doing there.

• 6:44Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 6:45Speaker 01

  You know, best sales technique ever, but she didn't think she was a salesperson.

• 6:47Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 6:48Speaker 01

  If I'd interviewed her and said, welcome to the company, you're going to be our number one salesperson, she would have even started.

• 6:52Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 6:52Speaker 01

  But yeah, so it's all about using your personality traits to also be applied, right? What next?

• 6:57Alex Hormozi?

  So the second one is like, okay, so you have to acquire enough of these traits, bundled terms to just take action. So if I had to do the, what's the TLDR of the last page, which is do something? That's it. Like if all of this was around doing, it's do something because currently nothing is happening in your life. And so in order for something to change, you have to do something. Now, once you decide, okay, I'm going to take action, then it's like, okay, who am I selling to? This is one that people get really confused about, and I think people want to start with, what do I sell? Like two and three, what to sell are very much interrelated, right? Because who you sell to is going to determine what you're going to sell. Right? If I decide that airline pilots are going to be my, the people that I feel like selling, then I can be like, oh, well, I have these, you know, this, uh, this insurance thing that does for houses.

• 7:41Alex Hormozi?

  It's like, I don't know if that's really the, the right match for that particular thing. Sometimes you come in with some past experience and so I like to, I know I'm going, I'm going out of order, but it'll, it'll work out in the end. But I think there's three Ps around, uh, what people figure out. And I, I tend to talk more about services than products. And I do that because at least in the US, 78% of businesses are services.

• 8:04Speaker 01

  Great way to start as well. Services are very easy businesses.

• 8:05Alex Hormozi?

  Right. At the end of the day, you're just doing something that other people don't want to do for money. Right? And so pain, profession, and then passion. Almost all businesses can get derived from one of these three things, which is like you had some painful experience you overcame. And so that's, you know, a mom who helps, uh, her kids pack lunches who have, uh, food allergies. It's like, if you figured out how to overcome that, then you can help other people do it too. If you overcame some sort of depression thing, it's like you can help other people do that. If you didn't know how to advertise your biggest business and then you figured out how to do Google pay per click. It's like, that's something that's, it's a pain, pain is, you know, uh, relative, but.

• 8:36Speaker 01

  Time-saving. If you can save people time, it's another way of translating it.

• 8:39Alex Hormozi?

  Totally. And so the second one is profession. So a lot of people do have jobs, but want to start a business. And so whatever you do in a company fundamentally is something that other companies probably want. And so you can always fractionalize whatever your professional skill is between multiple companies. And so that's just taking a skill that you already have in the workplace and just selling it to other people. And then passion is like, okay, well, I love, I'm really interested in model cars. Okay. Well, can you build a business around model cars? Absolutely. You could build a subscription on building them. You could build the actual products around them. You could make a channel about painting model cars. Like there's a zillion things that you could do there. But in each of these, it's usually something you overcame, some sort of professional skill that you learned, or some passion. And so that usually goes into what to sell. The most common person to sell to is someone like you.

• 9:25Alex Hormozi?

  So most, if you look at like Y Combinator and A16, these are some of the best venture startup investors. One of the, one of the requirements that they often have is what they call living with the problem. And so they want people who've had a lot of surface area, a lot of exposure, many repetitions over years, with many different types of solutions and why they don't work. And so on one hand, sure, you can be like, oh, I'm gonna just, I'm gonna think of this beautiful idea. But most of the times it's like, what do I hate? What, what bothers me? Because you, because then you don't have to do all this market research to figure out like, how do these people talk? Like, what are, what are their innate desires? You just say like, well, what do I want? And it's a much faster path. And I think that's where, this is where a lot of people end up starting in terms of who to sell to. They sell to people like that.

• 10:07Speaker 01

  You don't need much research in the market when you, when you know exactly your own problem. And interestingly, even at the top level, like Mark Zuckerberg built Facebook to solve his own awkward problem of being socially awkward.

• 10:17Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 10:18Speaker 01

  He did, he wanted to meet girls. He wanted to be liked. He wanted friends, but he found it socially awkward to go out.

• 10:23Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 10:23Speaker 01

  So he built a platform to solve his own problem. Turns out a lot of people have that problem. I guess, passion and purpose, do you differentiate the two?

• 10:31Alex Hormozi?

  No, I did not say that it's not true. I just, I usually use those three Ps.

• 10:35Speaker 01

  Because I think people, I, I believe in sales. It's a, it's a, there's three steps, right? Which is like, people do it the wrong way around normally. But the first step is. Do you like the person? Does the person like you? The relationship stuff. I don't know if people spend enough time doing that. Secondly, do people need what you're selling?

• 10:50Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 10:50Speaker 01

  A lot of people spend a lot of time selling something they don't need, right?

• 10:52Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 10:52Speaker 01

  And then the third step, of course, is like pricing and all that sort of stuff. But I think a lot of the time, like I took nine years to get to Apple as a client. Nine years.

• 11:00Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 11:00Speaker 01

  But it's because I had a passion and a purpose to build a company. I wanted to build something that was respected and Apple being a client would would help my company be respected. I think that purpose really helps you get through in the end on sales.

• 11:11Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, these are, I mean, this is kind of like the the the cycle of of figuring it out. And then when you, once you're like, okay, well, I get it, pain, profession, passion. But underneath of those things, um, like what what really is it? And so typically, you're gonna have, you can either sell products. So that's physical stuff, right? Tangible things you can put in someone's hand. There's services, which is you just do stuff for other people, which is fundamentally services are wrapped to time. And there's two types of time. One is the time to learn the skill and the other is the time to do the skill. So underneath, it's some sort of information advantage that you have and then the actual doing and execution. And so those are like services can be as simple as I know how to how to mow my lawn. I just don't want to do it. Um, on the other hand, it could be, hey, uh, I know how to code and I can code this, you know, site a certain way.

• 11:56Alex Hormozi?

  It's like, okay, not only do I not want to take the time to do it, uh, to learn it, I also don't want to take the time to do it. And so when you're thinking about products or services, those are, those are the two um, kind of buckets as I think about them. And then you have SaaS or software. You've got software as a service. You've got apps, things like that. You have something that I like to go into, which is just access. You've got risk, you've got money. And so these are all things that people can buy and sell. Banks buy and sell money, insurance, buy and sell risk. Access, if you think real estate, there's physical access, there's digital access. SaaS is basically these things just put in a digital format. And so this gives gives you kind of like a a jumpstart of like, well, what do I, how do I take my passion? It's like, okay, well, pick one of these ways. It's like you could sell the model cars. You could build the cars for people and then sell them.

• 12:40Alex Hormozi?

  You could have SaaS that helps people design their own cars. You could have events where you bring people together and they can show off their cars and race them and whatever. And then you can charge for take, you know, for access to that or media access. Like if you have, like for me, like this would be like education. It still kind of fit inside of here. It's like access to some sort of media. Risk, you could insure people's collections around their cars if they have really valuable car collections. You know, model cars. And then money is, hey, maybe people need lending for this stuff. Who knows? Fundamentally, like, that's how I think through, what am I gonna sell?

• 13:08Speaker 01

  I think as well, it's very interesting around the service side. Because in my agency business, for example, I was selling the services, someone else's design ability, their time to someone. I wasn't even doing the service.

• 13:18Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 13:19Speaker 01

  But I helped the person, the designers didn't like to sell. They're shy, they want to sit at their computer creating, right? So I didn't even have the skill to do the design, but I was able to sell the service. I think, I think this list is brilliant. So one, okay, so people have who to sell to and what you're going to sell is are interlinked.

• 13:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 13:36Speaker 01

  So you've decided what you're gonna do here.

• 13:38Alex Hormozi?

  I'm gonna add one thing to this, because I think this will be helpful for people who are starting now. And so I talk about this a ton in, in my stuff. In my opinion, one of the things that matters a ton is pricing, right? It's a lot easier to sell a hundred people a $10,000 thing than it's to sell 10,000, 10,000 people a $100 thing. There's just so much more distribution that you need to get. For me, I look at, do the people that I want to sell my thing have the money for my thing? And if everybody's broke in this particular market, then I might consider, well, is there anything else I know how to do? Or anything else I'm, I'm passionate about, or anything else that I, I have a professional skill around? So the first thing is money. The second thing is how easy are these people to find? Like, is it really hard to find this, you know, this particular subset of people?

• 14:21Alex Hormozi?

  Or can I find them pretty easily? Are there directories? Are there associations with them? If so, then it's easy for me to reach out or show up at those conferences or whatever. The next thing is I'd rather have the market be growing. Like, if I, if I'm about to pick what business I'm gonna get into, I'd rather go into one where there's more demand than there is supply. Right? Like, I'd rather just have the tailwind rather than a headwind. One of my, one of my, one of my friends had a business that sold to newspapers. And brilliant guy. And basically, he was trying to transition them from print ads to give them a second ad product that was digital. So it's like, he could convert all of their print ads into digital ads onto their website. And so it makes sense. It's like, you know, it's avant garde. It's like, hey, you just have another product you can now sell. You don't have to do anything. You just make more money. Like, it was a good offer. The problem is that newspapers, at least in the US, were shrinking by 25% per annum.

• 15:06Alex Hormozi?

  Every year, compounding the wrong direction, 25% a year. And so, no, if he had to gain 25% market share every year just to keep his company the same size, good people were just going out of business.

• 15:15Speaker 01

  Even though it's in the digital space, which is the growing part.

• 15:17Alex Hormozi?

  Right.

• 15:18Speaker 01

  They didn't have any money to pay for that service.

• 15:19Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. And then the final one is if I had to pick between two things, I'd rather have one where people are in pain. And when I say pain, it doesn't necessarily mean like, people are like, oh my God, like, you know, I've got cancer, I'm going to die. But just the annoyances of taking out the trash every day. It's like, it's just the problems or things that people would rather not do. Now, when you combine these things together is when you can charge a lot more. Like, if it's just like, a lot of times when you start out, like, very, very early days, you probably don't know anything that other people don't know. I'm just being real, right? And so, a lot of the earliest businesses you start are what, you know, we probably consider blue collar businesses. So, it's like, it's cleaning, it's lawn care, it's painting. These are not, you know, you can learn how to do it in a weekend.

• 16:02Alex Hormozi?

  But that's okay, because business takes a really long time to learn. And so, it's like, okay, well, at least I'll just have something simple that I can do here, and then I can learn all the other skills around business by practicing it. These are kind of the four characteristics of if I'm going to get into a market, I want to make sure that they've got the money, they're easy to find, it's growing, and they're in pain.

• 16:19Speaker 01

  I hope you're writing this down, folks. Because I wish I'd done this when I was younger. I mean, I built a service business, we're talking about it off camera, and sometimes you're selling so hard to a market that doesn't have enough money, it's so much harder. Because anyone's going to fail at sales. If you put yourself in a place where the people don't have enough pain, they've got too many choices.

• 16:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 16:37Speaker 01

  Choices. You've got to have that pain to create the closing situation in selling.

• 16:42Alex Hormozi?

  And this is actually, I think this will be really relevant for your history with the creative agency. So, there's this story that I really like a lot, where a father gives his son an old car. You might have heard this one.

• 16:53Speaker 01

  No.

• 16:53Alex Hormozi?

  But father gives his son an old car, and he says, if you want, you can sell it, and then you can take the money and, you know, buy yourself something else. And so, he says, why don't you go down to the pawn shop and see what they'll give you? And so, you know, kid goes, comes back, and he looks a little bit down, and he's like, what's up? He's like, oh, they said they'd give me 2,500 bucks. He's like, all right, well, go to the dealership, see if you can trade it in there for, you know, for something else. So, he goes there, comes back, said, Well, hey, they'll give me $5,000. She's like, okay, that's an improvement. And he says, hey, why don't you go down to the old collectibles auction house, see what they'll do. And so the kid goes there and he comes back and he comes back, he's dumb for two, he's like, Dad, you won't believe it, you won't believe it. He's like, they say this is an old collectible car and it's worth $100,000.

• 17:34Alex Hormozi?

  And he's like, the biggest lesson here is that sometimes it's the exact same thing, but who you sell to changes everything. And so within the services that you have, if Simon had gone back and sold to really small businesses, the like branding and creative and logo design and things like that. I would bet that the vast majority of those businesses couldn't appreciate what the service was and what the value of even branding is to begin with. Cause they'd be like, yeah, but how's this gonna give me leads? And only a more advanced business can appreciate the upside of how much return on advertising, return on throughput you get by having kind of a brand halo effect. But you have to be of a certain size. And so if you had that skillset and then you were like, hey, Alex Simon, I started my business, but no one wants to buy it. The first question we probably ask is, okay, well, are you good at your thing?

• 18:18Alex Hormozi?

  And if you check the box, it's like, yeah, I think this guy's good. Well, who are you selling to? It's like, well, I'm just trying to sell to a, to local lawn care services. It's like, well, that's, that's not surprising to me that they wouldn't buy. But in that moment, you might think, oh, I suck at business. You were just selling to the wrong people. And I think that's why this is so important is making sure who you sell to is one of the biggest levers that you can have on success. Can I tell another story?

• 18:38Speaker 01

  Yeah, go ahead, please.

• 18:39Alex Hormozi?

  So there is a CRO company that came through here that we were looking at to invest in and it was, it was great. So this guy was a really good coder, really good CRO, you know, conversion and optimization for websites. He had a really, really cool business, but what was interesting is he and I had this conversation. He was like, oh yeah. When I work with a million dollar a year e-commerce store and I, you know, raise their throughput by 10%, he's like, it only adds $100,000 to the business. He said, but when I go to an e-commerce store that does a hundred million and I add 10%, it's the same amount of work. He's like, I had 10 million to the business. I can charge so much more money for the exact same work because in a very real way, it is more valuable. I did create more value, but it wasn't because of me, it was because of them. And so one of the biggest levers you can have on success is doing the same work for better people.

• 19:21Speaker 01

  Yeah. The stories really resonate with me. And again, I wish I'd heard you speak 20 years ago. I remember when I first started the business, we were selling graphic designs. We'd go to someone, do you want a logo, do you want a brand? And they'd pay a certain amount. And I managed to get quite good fees out of it because we were good. But then one day I gave ideas to someone for free.

• 19:38Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 19:39Speaker 01

  And they said, oh, I would have paid a lot for that. Creative is almost like a commodity. So we started selling the ideas. And that's where we were getting millions of dollars from. And then the execution was like, wow, lots of people could design it now. You just give them the brief.

• 19:50Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, good fiber and they'll go make.

• 19:52Speaker 01

  Exactly, that got commoditized, which by the way is a little bit unfair because the actual creative part is really tough. But people don't value it and pain isn't, pain is in the idea. So we go to CNN and give them an idea that, oh, well, that's valuable. But just the execution almost is secondary. So you can always take your existing service and just tweak it a bit. And you'll get a lot more out of it if you do that. What's next in this?

• 20:14Alex Hormozi?

  So now we got to get them to buy. So it's like, this is all great. You know, we've got some of these character traits. We decided to start taking action. We figure out who we want to sell to, we figure out what we want to sell. So now, now we got to get them to buy. I know something, you've got your, you've got your sales framework. The one that I've been teaching for years is Closer. So there are a million sales frameworks out there. This is just the one that's, it's just consistently worked for me teaching, you know, teams of guys out in the road, whatever. And for years, I actually just taught close. And it was only probably the last four or five years that I added the R on there.

• 20:46Speaker 01

  I hope you trademark this.

• 20:47Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, I don't know, who knows? I hope everyone just learns how to sell. So the first thing is, is like, basically, okay, now that I'm in front of this who and I've got the what, how do I get them to give me money? And so this is basically a structure for a conversation, which is the first thing that we like to do is clarify why they're there. The person, and the nice thing with any sales conversation is that there's always something that someone has done to indicate interest. Like you can't, unless someone is still listening to you, they opened the door, they clicked on the email, they responded with, with a comment, they DM'd you, they opted in on your site. Like someone has to take some initial move towards you in order to, they, they indicate interest. And so all you have to do then is just ask them why. So you say, hey, why did you, why'd you respond to my post? Hey, why did you, why did you DM me?

• 21:31Alex Hormozi?

  Hey, why did you opt in on my site? And you're just asking them why, you're clarifying the problem, right? The second step, and this is all listening, right? You're just asking questions. So what brought you in today? What was the main reason? What are you struggling with right now? And then, and this is just a very small step, but super important, which is we label them with a problem. And to say, okay, I got it, John. So it sounds like you're here and you want to get here. And this has been the thing in your way. Does that sound about right? And this is also active listening. So for me, from a rapport building perspective, if you say back to someone what they just said, they're like, oh, this guy's great. This guy's brilliant.

• 22:05Speaker 01

  Charismatic.

• 22:08Alex Hormozi?

  And so we label them a problem and we have, you're here, you want to get here. Here's this gap. Okay. So then, and this is just out of just experience, we overview the past experiences that they've had. And I call this the pain cycle. I didn't know why this worked. I just knew that it did work. The key point here is you say, hey, so what have you done so far to try and solve this? What have you done? And then they're going to start listing out, I did this. And then we just ask, okay, well, how'd that work for you? And then obviously they're talking to you, so it didn't work. So it's a loaded, you're like, you're just pushing on this pain.

• 22:39Speaker 01

  Getting them to realize it.

• 22:40Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 22:41Speaker 01

  Basically, yeah.

• 22:41Alex Hormozi?

  And so I have this fundamental belief that all salespeople are just motivational speakers, fundamentally, just on a one-on-one basis. And so all we're trying to do is motivate someone to take action. If you know that, or at least for me, if I think that's what it is, it just comes down to motivating someone, then what creates motivation? And so I spent a really long time trying to think through this. It's actually the opposite is what creates motivation. Deprivation creates motivation. So if I'm starving, then I'm very motivated to eat. If I'm exhausted, I'm very motivated to sleep. With that same concept, what we want to do is basically remind them, we want to deprive them, remind them of how deprived they are of this thing and how much pain they've gone through up to this point. We try and ask them what they did, ask them how that worked,

• 23:25Alex Hormozi?

  ask them what they liked and what they didn't like about that thing. When they say the things that they liked, you associate that with, oh, I think if you like that, you're going to love this. And if they hated that, it's like, oh, that's great. And I understand why you struggled with that. Because later we're going to take notes of that and we're going to make sure that we don't talk about that stuff if we have anything similar to that in our product. And so after we've gone through this pain cycle, and you just keep asking, anything else you've done? Anything else you've tried? Until eventually they're like, no, that's That's about it. They say, awesome, John. I think that you're going to love what we've got for you. Can I tell you about it? So this is where we ask for permission to make the sale. I go sell the vacation. So I have this little moniker about selling that a lot of people sell the plane flight and not Maui or Hawaii or whatever your vacation spot is. And so they then go right into, you know, jargon.

• 24:10Alex Hormozi?

  They're like, oh, we're gonna, we're gonna do these color tones and we're gonna have this palette for your logo. And like, they're like, what is going on? But what people want, it's, you know, people don't want to buy drills, they buy holes, right? The drill is just the vehicle. And so what we want is to talk about the, the, the, the, the light breeze in their hair, what it's like at sunset, what they're gonna feel like when they've got their feet in the sand and they're drinking the cold, you know, Mai Tai at the beach and they're with their loved ones and making a memory that they'll have for the rest of their lives.

• 24:39Speaker 01

  Sell, sell the sizzle, not steak. It's a simple way.

• 24:41Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, exactly. But what we don't want to sell is the TSA, the, the plane check and take your shoes off. The guy farting next to you, the terrible food.

• 24:48Speaker 01

  I don't know why they have to sell planes flying in the air. That's not the enjoyable bit, is it? Unless you're in business class, maybe, but really it's not enjoyable. Why do they sell that? Every airline listing should change right now.

• 24:57Alex Hormozi?

  And so I do something that I call a three pillar pitch. I almost always try and chunk up basically my selling points to three points. Why three? I don't know. But three's just always worked really well. And so the three pillar pitch, I like to have basically one statement and then a metaphor. And so if there's, and I used to teach this for fitness sales all the time. So it's like, there's three things, fitness, nutrition, accountability. And with that, it's like, you want to have a three-legged stool that if you're missing one of the sides, it's not gonna work. It's like, if you just work out, then you're, and you're not eating well, then you're gonna, it doesn't matter. You're not gonna lose weight. If you just eat well, but you're not working out, you're gonna lose muscle and you're gonna rebound back. Is that right? And if, because we just knew about their pain cycle, they're like, hey, I've had that happen before. Like, no, exactly. So you know that. And if I give you the best fitness and the best training in the world,

• 25:41Alex Hormozi?

  I say the best fitness and the best nutrition plan in the world, but you don't actually do it because no one holds you accountable. It's not gonna happen either. And so you gotta have all three. And when you have all three, you can't lose. That's the three pillars. And so when I would create scripts for, I was still like a completely opposite script. I made a script for a B to B mortgage sales company. And so I was like, okay, they were. Selling leads to realtors. And so it's like, okay, so I spent the whole morning, I was like, what are the three things? It's like, okay, you want leads that are exclusive to you, you want them to be qualified and you want them to be timely. You want them to be like, they just opted in, they've got, they're really interested and no one else is calling them but me. That's what you want in the leads. And so it's like, these are the three things. And so then for each of those three things, you then just make one analogy or story that relates it. And so if I wanted to do, you know, explain accountability, I would say, okay, have you ever heard of the amazing race? There was a show that happened, even if they had, doesn't matter.

• 26:25Alex Hormozi?

  And they're like, yeah, so there was actually this, this couple that won so many times, they had to change the rules. Do you know what they did differently? They're like, what? He's like, so what they did was whenever they'd land into a new area and they had to find the new location, they would immediately grab a local and say, hey, can you get in the back of the car and just tell us where to go? And by doing that, they always beat everyone else. And so the thing is, is that you want a guide. And so that's exactly what we're going to do with the accountability. And so I have like six different accountability stories, but that's one of them, right? And so it's like, you just want to have one story for each of the pillars. And then you just say, does that make sense? They say yes, and then you just move on to the next pillar. And you'll notice that, like, at least for me, especially in high volume transactional sales. So I would say like B to C sales, consumer sales, where it's, you know, one and done kind of sales.

• 27:04Alex Hormozi?

  I found that like, when I'm like on fire in terms of selling, the person's walking out the door and they're super excited. And they're like, I don't even know what I just signed up for. Because the thing is, is that like, the more in the weeds we get, the more questions they're going to have about it. And as long as you're confident, whatever it is that you sell, just know that you're going to take care of them. Because you explaining the macros and the calories and the rep schemes, like, they don't even know what it is anyways. And so they're going to nod along and try and ask questions that they don't even know why they're asking the question. Like, what kind of certifications do you have? We just ask, which ones you're looking for? And they're like, eh, like, right. So you just, they want to seem like they're, like they're asking informed questions, but they just don't know what to do. We do a three pillar pitch. And then we say, great, so then we transition to the close. So we ask for the sales, that makes sense? Awesome, you want to get started on Monday? Yes or no, whatever. And then you start moving through it.

• 27:48Alex Hormozi?

  Now, if they say anything but yes, you want to explain away their concerns. So most concerns, at least as I, I think through them, is you've got timing concerns, which is, I'm really busy right now. Preference concerns, which is, I don't like this particular thing about your solution. You've got money, right? You've got money slash ROI, whatever. You've got stalls, which is, uh, sounds similar to timing, but completely different, which is, can you give me some time to think about it versus I don't have time? They both have the word time in it for sales guys off. Finally, you want to just cover past experiences. And so this is where I signed up with the creative agents you just like yours and they burned me. So you want to make sure that you have something to overcome that particular thing.

• 28:28Alex Hormozi?

  Once you understand what the core things that people have that they present with that are the reasons why they don't want to do something, you just need to understand the logical arguments for each of these bullets. So with timing, this is all about priorities. So everyone's got the same times. You just say, hey, how important is this to you? Okay, then it means that there's something else in your 24 hours a day that we need to trade. That's less important than this. As long as you explain that to them, then you're good. Preferences is they want your result their way. If you change the variables of the way that I do it, if you just want to do fitness and nutrition, not accountability, then you're not going to get the result. So if you change the variables, you change the outcome. And so it's just like always thinking, they want my results their way. You can't just, I mean, the amount of times I'd have, you know, ladies trying to lose weight be like,

• 29:12Alex Hormozi?

  can I just eat what I'm currently eating and then do your program? And I was like, no, because what you're currently eating is getting you where you're currently getting, right? And so then we have ROI, which we solve with logic, proof and payment terms. So logic is just understanding like, if this does this, is it worth it? Okay, so if it is, then the problem is that they don't believe you. And so then it's all around proof, like how many different varieties of testimonials can I demonstrate that are as similar to them as possible to get them to believe me? And, you know, we have our little belief breaking formula, but I won't even get into that. And then you've got payment terms. So it's like, okay, the person logically understands they believe that could happen. Then it just gets into logistics of payment, which is like, okay, can you break this up for me? Can I do half now, half later, whatever?

• 29:54Alex Hormozi?

  You've got stalls, which is again, I need to think about it. But here what we do is we walk them through a logical decision. So we say, okay, do you think that you'll be more successful if you do this than if you didn't do it? Yes. Okay. Do you think that if you do it on your own versus doing it with us, you will get close to your goal? Yes. Do you have access or know somebody who has access to the money to get started? Yes, yes, yes. Great. Then you made a logical decision. And so a lot of people are just afraid of making mistakes. And so with stalls, we want to figure out what the fear is. And so the number one triage question that we ask is if you have less rapport, we just say, what's your main concern? If you have a little bit more rapport, I just ask, what are you afraid of having happen? And you can lower your voice a little bit and they're like, I just don't want my husband to say that I spent money on this thing again.

• 30:36Alex Hormozi?

  You're like, totally understand. What if this is the thing that five years from now you look back on and you're like, what if I hadn't done that? And you're sitting there, completely changed your lifestyle and you're, you know, your husband and you guys are so much better now. I was like, what if you look back on this one moment? Because I think about this with my wife, I'm swiping on my phone. If I had swiped left on the app and I hadn't met Leila, my life would be completely different than it is right now, eight or nine years later. And so it's like, I just don't want that to happen to you. You're like, oh, man. Okay. And so then.

• 31:04Speaker 01

  I didn't know you met an app, did you?

• 31:05Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 31:06Speaker 01

  Should we give him a plug? Who was it?

• 31:07Alex Hormozi?

  It was Bumble.

• 31:08Speaker 01

  Oh, really? There you go, Bumble. Well done.

• 31:10Alex Hormozi?

  And so this is, uh, so if someone has a past experience, so that, hey, I worked with a creative agency before and it didn't work. Therefore, you won't work. I have yet to have a, uh, an overcome here. Um, there's also decision maker.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  I use case studies for this one, by the way.

• 31:23Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, this one's killer. So I'll tell you how to do it. So, uh, with burn you twice, you just say, listen, you had something bad that happened in the past and the only thing worse than having a bad investment is letting a bad investment prevent you from making a good one right now.

• 31:37Speaker 01

  Great.

• 31:38Alex Hormozi?

  And so then we do a metaphor. So it's like, hey, are you married? A lot of times if you're old, like they're like, yeah, you're with somebody. Yes. Okay. Did you ever date anybody before that person? Yeah. Did you ever date anybody like middle school or high school? Yeah. Now imagine after your first middle school boyfriend or girlfriend.

• 31:51Speaker 01

  Never dated anyone again.

• 31:51Alex Hormozi?

  Exactly. So it just means that that person wasn't right for you. It doesn't mean that all people aren't right for you.

• 31:56Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:56Alex Hormozi?

  And so there's a big difference. And so they're, oh, I get it. So you don't want to let that person burn you twice. Once for when it happened and once when it stops you from having the good thing. And then there's decision maker, which is, uh, I don't have the authority to make the decision. I don't bring that one up because it's one of the hardest ones to overcome. And people have a lot of, uh, harsh beliefs in the comments about how I overcome this stuff. Cause they're like, you should always get permission from the spouse. And it depends. If you're buying a house, yeah, you're going to need permission from the spouse.

• 32:18Speaker 01

  Kind of.

• 32:18Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. Right. Yeah. And so obviously you want to bring that person, if you know that whatever you sell requires uh, somebody else, you want to make sure the decision makers are on the call. But there are times when you're in a selling situation where like, you've got one shot. For us, I try to overcome decision maker uh, or authority to make the decision. By first saying, okay, well, what if they say no? And so if I have a guy, I'll lean into his ego and I'll be like, what if your wife doesn't give you permission?

• 32:44Speaker 01

  Yeah, better ask for forgiveness than permission.

• 32:46Alex Hormozi?

  I use that at the very end. Yeah. But yeah, so what if she, what if she doesn't give you permission? Cause then it makes them really, and they're like, no, I can, and it's like, oh, great. Let's get you going. You know what I mean? As soon as they bounce back, you're good. But if they say, no, I wouldn't do it, then you say, well, what do you think they'd be against? So now I'm still not on, I'm now isolating towards variables. Like what, like what are the actual things that they would say no to? Cause I can overcome that, not the decision. And so they're like, oh, they'd be over, you know, it'd be this particular thing, but now I'm off decision. Now, if they're still like, no, it, it, it doesn't matter. And it's like, okay, well, just do they know that you're here right now? They know that you're struggling with this thing. Yeah, they know that you're struggling. Are they, are they, are they, do they approve of that? Well, they don't, I mean, no, they don't approve of it. They're not happy that I'm, that I'm struggling with this. It's like, oh, then why would they be against something that they already don't approve of? So they're going relying on past agreements. So it's like, you already have the permission. They know that you're struggling. Why wouldn't they want you to solve it?

• 33:30Alex Hormozi?

  And it's like, well, if your wife's anything like my wife, like we end up making it work in the end anyways, right? And then we'll go into, um, I think you, I think you might be asking for permission instead of support.

• 33:41Speaker 01

  Deep psychology, you guys. It's starting to be marriage counselor, isn't it? It's time you stood up for yourself, you know, like.

• 33:47Alex Hormozi?

  Well, cause then you play it out and you say, listen, because if you, if you don't do this, then you don't do it because of your wife or whatever. Cause let's say you go home and she says, no, okay, fine. Well, play this forward five years. Your business isn't in the place you want it to be. You are not the weight you want to be. You have this back pain, whatever the thing that you sell around is. It's like five years from now, who are you gonna blame? You gonna blame her? You gonna blame you? I don't think it's fair to either of you. Because at the end of the day, it's your life and you gotta be able to make these decisions. Now, again, I just think, and this is where you go into like, I think you're asking for permission when you're really just giving me support.

• 34:16Speaker 01

  By the way, Amazon do a brilliant job of ticking most of these off by just saying, we'll give you a refund. You can send it back and it won't cost you anything. So my wife gets a package a day and she's like, don't worry. If you don't like it, I can send it back. So like, I don't object and it's like, okay, fine. I don't see much going back, but the point is you can just get rid of it by money back guarantee or giving people some comfort.

• 34:34Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, a hundred percent. Yeah, or delayed, or you can do a delayed pay with the payment term. You say, hey, just say yes now, sign the contract, I'll delay the payment till Friday. And between now and then, if you go home and your husband says, no, sweetie, I want you to live 10. 10 years less long, I want you to be fat, I want you to have generational unhelped.

• 34:48Speaker 01

  If you want to die young.

• 34:49Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, exactly. If he says that, you call me up. First, I'll talk to him, but secondly.

• 34:52Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 34:53Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah. And so I make some jokes about it. And then the final one here is let's assume you explain away their concern. They're like, yeah, I want to do it. And I added this one later, which is you reinforce the decision. And so one of the major things that happens, and I had to add this in because I wanted my sales guys to make sure that they completed the transition to the handoff to customer success and onboarding. And until I had this, it was just like, explain away their concerns, close the deal, and then he was like, I'm done.

• 35:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:16Alex Hormozi?

  And so it's like, no, we have to bridge this. We have to reinforce that they made a great call. So say, hey, right now, I'm going to juice you to Sarah. Sarah's going to get you started. Hey, Sarah, this is John. John's trying to retire his wife. John's trying to get in shape for a wedding, whatever it is. Sarah's going to help you take the next steps. Now then Sarah is going to start the onboarding conversation of how do I relate the actions that this person has to take with their goal? And say, hey, we're going to help you retire your wife. We're going to help you get, look good for that wedding. But these are the first three steps. So that's how you get people to give you money.

• 35:41Speaker 01

  In England, there's a new gym that's opened up called Fird Space. And one of the things they've done is they've also limited supply. So they basically, I went there, it's a beautiful gym. It's like a thousand dollars a month for it. And they're like, we don't have any space right now.

• 35:54Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 35:55Speaker 01

  But put you on the waiting list.

• 35:56Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 35:56Speaker 01

  And then a few days later, they ring up, say, someone's just left, but do you want it now?

• 36:01Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 36:01Speaker 01

  And that's actually a brilliant, I'm like, yeah, okay, okay. So limiting supply is another element.

• 36:05Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, yeah, that's great.

• 36:06Speaker 01

  All right, next, because that was awesome.

• 36:08Alex Hormozi?

  So how many times they buy? So now we want to get them to obviously buy again. Because I think Dan Kennedy said this, and I just love this quote. He says, you don't get customers to make sales, you make sales to get customers. And so the idea is that once you have a customer, then you want to get them to buy as many times as seemingly possible. At this point, there's so many things that you can do to make a business make more money. So one is that you can increase the price of whatever you have. I'm just talking about eight different ways that you can make more money to get them, just basically make more money for any customer. So one is that you can just charge more. The second is that you decrease the cost of whatever you sell. So if you have a service, you can either pay people less, that's usually not the right idea. But you can improve the service ratio of how many customers to every rep. You can add tech in order to make their jobs easier. You can go offshore, things like that.

• 36:51Alex Hormozi?

  The next one is you ask them to buy again. So you just do this times two. You say, hey, you have that thing. Do you want to buy more of that thing you just bought? Uh, one of my favorite, one of my favorite upsells ever. Uh, the next one is that you can get continuity, which is you say buying, which I see this as a quantity. This one as uh, you're, they're buying once and then there's a delay and then a day. So this is a quantity, then you've got quality, which is, do you want to buy a better version of the thing that you have? Then we have uh, down sells. So it's like, hey, and this one is like, wait, how is, how is this gonna make me more money? So down sells make you more money in that if you, you turn a no into a yes. And so, okay, you don't want to buy the, the, the normal burger. Do you want to buy a junior burger? Do you want to buy a smaller one? Do you want to just buy the burger, not the other stuff?

• 37:36Alex Hormozi?

  Okay. Then we've got cross sells where you sell something different. So I'll go through this whole example real quick, uh, but with, with a burger store, cause everyone can understand it. So I can take my burger and make it more expensive. I can lower the cost of each burger for myself. I can get them to buy two burgers. I can get them to come back again to buy another burger or put them on a burger subscription. So this would be through like follow up.

• 37:59Speaker 01

  Good idea for business idea, burger subscription business. And I should do that.

• 38:02Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. What are they, yeah, were they, did you, did you eat it there today? It's great.

• 38:04Speaker 01

  Not today.

• 38:05Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 38:05Speaker 01

  We have had way too many.

• 38:06Alex Hormozi?

  There's no sugar.

• 38:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm sure. Yeah. I don't know what's in it, but it's not sugar. I don't think it's meat either, but anyway.

• 38:11Alex Hormozi?

  You could have, uh, you can, you can increase the quality of the meat. You say, oh, this is mystery meat burger. You can have sirloin, you know, burger that's ground up.

• 38:18Speaker 01

  Mystery meat.

• 38:19Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, we can go uh, lower quantity. So this is uh, making it smaller, you know, it's quantity. And then you can lower the quality. All right. Now I don't like saying lower quality, but it's a more economical.

• 38:29Speaker 01

  HP, this is a HP strategy for all their printers. They start off as really good printers that never break, don't need an ink cartridge.

• 38:34Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 38:35Speaker 01

  And they reduce the quality. So you need ink cartridges and you need the faster one, not the slower one. They make it slower. So you want to buy the faster one.

• 38:42Alex Hormozi?

  And so uh, you, you, you get the smaller burger. So you have less. Uh, or you go from regular meat to just completely questionable, like what is this thing? Or you say, okay, what are the cross sells? Well, do you want fries with your burger? Do you want a drink with your burger? And so those are basically the eight ways that you can get a customer to buy more stuff. The whole process though, especially if you're selling, doing a cross out, which is very common in terms of what people are thinking about selling next. Is that there's a problem, solution cycle that exists in business, which is that if you actually solve a problem with whatever you do, you also create another problem. So all problems, all solutions create more problems. All problems create solutions. If you do accurately solve it, so let's say, like, let's say someone has the burgers and all that stuff.

• 39:26Alex Hormozi?

  Well, once someone's full, then I created a dessert problem, right? Which I can solve, you know, with, with my milkshake or my ice cream cones or whatever, right? Just to use the very simple example. But if I solve the traffic to someone's site, then the next thing they're gonna need help with is sales. The next thing they're gonna need help with is delivery. There's always gonna be something else that's gonna happen. You know, if you, if you help someone lose 20 pounds, the next thing they're gonna want is they're gonna wanna tone up or they're gonna want new clothes. There's, there's a ton of things that happen as a result. But there's another piece that I'll bring up here, which is something that I have learned over and over again, which is that people enter hyper buying cycles. And so let's say that I sign up for a marathon. If I decide I'm gonna start a marathon and then I go to the shoe store, the running shoe store, and I say, hey, I want some, I want some running shoes.

• 40:10Alex Hormozi?

  If that business owner, it's like, well, they just bought the running shoes. I don't wanna, I don't wanna scare them away. I don't wanna seem too salesy. Well, what are they gonna do? They're like, well, I still need the iPod thing for my, for my shoulder so that when I'm running, I need new tank tops, I need running shorts. I gotta have, you know, the, the app that tracks my progress, whatever it is, right? And so, and I've gotta have those gels that, whatever marathon runners. But the thing is, is that if you don't sell it, they're going to buy it, just not from you. And all of this is gonna happen in a very short time cycle. They're gonna make the decision, I'm now a marathon runner, and so I need to get all the stuff associated with that. You buy a pet, there's a zillion things you buy. You go to a wedding, there's a zillion things you buy. Like, whenever someone makes a decision to enter it, like, basically they have a new identity that then associates with whatever purchases they're going to make,

• 40:53Alex Hormozi?

  they enter this cycle where they just buy lots of stuff. And you wanna be there right at that moment to make that next offer again and again and again. And offers are only bad if you present it at the wrong time or it's not a need. And so that's why we don't try and sell them. We make the offer, we present it. If they're not into it, no big deal. And so that's at least how I think through ups. Selling and getting more out of it.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Nike stores do this so well, you know, they put the socks on the way out to checkout.

• 41:21Alex Hormozi?

  Okay.

• 41:22Speaker 01

  They put the giraffe and all that stuff. And brand, brand plays such an important role in this because once you've got trusted.

• 41:28Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 41:28Speaker 01

  And then people wanna buy from you.

• 41:29Alex Hormozi?

  Sure.

• 41:30Speaker 01

  Cause they know, you know, your shoes are good quality. Well, your tops are probably good quality, your socks are probably good quality, your armband is gonna be good. Yeah. My iPhone in and so who helps you, isn't that next?

• 41:39Alex Hormozi?

  Yes.

• 41:39Speaker 01

  Who helps you, that's it. By the way, um, we have a platform that helps people. It's the hardest thing we've noticed for people to actually ask for help.

• 41:46Alex Hormozi?

  Mm hmm.

• 41:47Speaker 01

  People love giving help. That's the shocking thing, but people don't ask.

• 41:50Alex Hormozi?

  Interesting.

• 41:51Speaker 01

  But, but what's your take on it?

• 41:53Alex Hormozi?

  So who helps you? So the way that I think about this is you have, you have four ways you can let other people know about stuff. Right? So you've got, you've got one on one, uh, and then you've got one to many, people who know you and people who don't. And so one on one to people who know you is warm outreach. So you just text your friends, you DM people, you email, you call, whatever. You've got one to many to people who know you, which is posting content. Like you make a post to your Facebook page and you say, hey, this is what's going on in my life. One to one to people who don't know you is cold outreach. So that's cold calling, cold emailing, cold whatever. And then you've got one to many, uh, to people who don't know you, which is paid ads. And so these are the only four things that any one person can do to let other people know about their stuff.

• 42:34Speaker 01

  You can talk at events here too, the similar things.

• 42:36Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, yeah.

• 42:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:37Alex Hormozi?

  Totally.

• 42:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 42:38Alex Hormozi?

  Once we know this, this is how we advertised anything, um, to get customers. Then it's like, okay, well, we do the exact same process to get employees. And so you need a team that's going to help you. And so in the beginning, a lot of times you start by reaching out to people you know and saying, hey, friends, family. Do you wanna help me with my business? Um, and then you probably make a post and say, hey, I'm hiring, you know, anybody who knows anybody, please like make the introduction. Uh, and then you start running ads on job boards and saying, hey, uh, I've got this great thing. Please apply, it's great. And then when you get more advanced, you start headhunting. Uh, and you start looking for people who are really good at that thing. And these are typically, in my experience, these are the highest value, uh, and the hardest. It's just like the sales that you made with Apple.

• 43:22Alex Hormozi?

  It's like these people, sometimes it takes two, three years to get that one killer on your team. But that person can just build an entire division or a department and just continue to scale. And so it's basically taking the same concept that you have with advertising to get customers and applying it to employees. Now I have a, another framework, if you're good with it.

• 43:40Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 43:40Alex Hormozi?

  So you've got lead gen. How you get customers, right? And then you've got nurture, and you've got sales, and you've got onboarding, and then you've got retention/ascension. Alright, so you retain them and you upsell them. Okay, cool. A lot of people, at least in business, understand this pipeline, but they don't know that they already have all the skills. Just like all the things that you do to currently cut customers, you already have the skills to advertise to get people to help you out. And so then, all this is, is just application generation, which you use the same core four that we just went through. Nurture is the same, is that you should be nurturing. So, fun fact, so Lila might have shared it yesterday, but like, A candidates take on average eight days to find a job, and B candidates and below take 30 days plus. And so if your process of getting someone from the first engagement

• 44:23Alex Hormozi?

  to getting higher takes longer than that, then you're by definition getting B players and below. Now, I'll say my only exception to that is if you're hiring C-level and up, it just takes a very long time, but you want to make sure that the communication is still rapid between those things.

• 44:35Speaker 01

  They're trying to make a decision quite quickly. They might have a notice period that's longer, but they might still make a quick decision.

• 44:39Alex Hormozi?

  And so the application nurture here is that like, a lot of smaller businesses, like, they should be honored to work for me. They should be calling me. I'm gonna put 100 steps of friction. It's like, well, okay, you're just gonna get fewer applicants.

• 44:52Speaker 01

  Well, like you say, A won't get A players.

• 44:54Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, a lot of them, they just don't want to do it with it. And so, sales, this is the interview. And so a lot of people are like, well, tell me why you should work for me. That really only works for low-level individual people. At a certain level, you're selling them just as much on why they should work for you as they are on them. And that comes with talent, because the higher the level of talent, the more options they have. They don't, I'm not saying, yeah, I know you're not, but I'm just saying.

• 45:14Speaker 01

  It's so, this thing, I don't want people to miss it, because a lot of people don't understand when they're recruiting, they're selling. And I've worked personally so hard to get good people. Like, it's the hardest job. And people don't apply a sales process to it.

• 45:26Alex Hormozi?

  I think it's the most valuable.

• 45:27Speaker 01

  They sit back and say, well, tell me where you're gonna be in five years, or why you're good for my company. And people just don't give a shit. Good people are like, well, why should I be here?

• 45:33Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, right. Why should I spend my next five years here?

• 45:36Speaker 01

  Totally.

• 45:36Alex Hormozi?

  And onboarding is the same. You onboard employees the same way. After someone takes the job, they accept the offer, they sign the paperwork. It's like, great, now we have the onboarding. Here's all the passwords. This is what it's going to look like. And typically, people do, I think people do this backwards, which is they basically bring people on and say, good luck. Whereas the basically, the more work you do upfront, the less work is required over time in order to get someone to be proficient at whatever their work is.

• 45:58Speaker 01

  Do you do a big onboarding?

• 45:59Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, we're super big on.

• 46:01Speaker 01

  Anything particularly on onboarding you think's really useful?

• 46:04Alex Hormozi?

  Honestly, it's just a lot of touch bases. I mean, the first two weeks, they're probably like managers usually meet twice a day, you know, with, with, with new hires. Just to say like, okay, what are you going to do today at the end of the day? It's like, how to go, tell me about the conversations you had. And usually, especially it depends on what level of, you know, person's coming in. Anybody who's maybe director level and up, they're going to, they're going to talk to all the directors across the departments or kind of shadow a lot of people. Cause we want them to get a very good idea of a holistic understanding of the business. So they can understand where, where and why their work makes a big impact. And then finally, you have the exact same thing, which is retention and ascension, which is how do I keep good talent? And then what's my career path for them? So they can see their vision of what it's going to look like in five years.

• 46:44Alex Hormozi?

  It's like, listen, we're bringing you at a director, but long-term, we'd love to have you as a CRO or VP of this whole division or something like that. And this is, these are the requirements. This is what you would have to do in order to move up there. And again, we try to, we try and define things by behaviors. So if you're doing all of these activities, then you will by definition be this role. And so our way of promoting, at least at acquisition.com is we want people to just start doing the role. And then the title feels obvious rather than, hey, I want that title. Okay, here's the plan. I'd rather you just go do the next role. And then everyone's like, well, yeah, he, he deserves the title. Like, so everybody else has already bought in because you're already doing the job anyways. And I think it's the, one of the biggest hacks, at least for those of you who are, who are employees at a company, some of the best ways to move up.

• 47:24Speaker 01

  Naylor said yesterday, which I absolutely love, was growth.

• 47:26Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  Give people a chance to grow because that will keep them. Everybody I've ever lost in past companies has been because I didn't have a thing they could do next.

• 47:34Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 47:34Speaker 01

  So this is brilliant thing.

• 47:35Alex Hormozi?

  If we think about the brand as a virtuous cycle, right? We can make whatever, you know, we can, we have those brilliant advertising campaign of all time, the best associations, the. Best celebrity endorsements. But as soon as people try the food or they try their product, they wear the shoes. If it's not good, it doesn't matter. It doesn't like it doesn't matter how good all of that stuff is. Is that you have to keep the edge and I think that's where the the connection between the brand. So it's like the brand makes a promise that remains the same more or less. The way to keep the promise changes. And so it's like, we want to be the so if Apple says we're going to have elegant, you know, products that are well designed, blah, blah, blah. Okay, that promises remain the same for many years. But the way they execute on that promise has to change, right? Because technology changes. There's new advancements in foam, so the shoes become lighter, they become better fitting.

• 48:21Alex Hormozi?

  From an R and D perspective, what we did was that we actually had a R and D department at. At Jim Launch, the company that we sold. And what we did was I said, okay, here's here's your budget and I want you to spend this money, no matter what, every month. And I would just want you to spend it on solving our customers' biggest problems. So every month, you're going to give me a list of all the problems that they that they're saying they have. And I want you to try and weight them as how big is the problem and how many of them are suffering from the problem? And so we use a little format, which is basically with the products is like, how many people are suffering from this thing? How much are they suffering? How likely is this solution going to solve the problem? And then how much does it cost us to do it? And so with that, we can basically create a power ranking of, okay, this thing is impacting a lot of these people.

• 49:05Alex Hormozi?

  So this is a high priority issue. But we don't have any solutions that we're actually really confident about. Well, we've got a solution that we're really confident about, but it's really expensive. Right? And so this is where you basically factor all four of these things in into your innovation cycle. So you say, okay, this is how we strategically prioritize our resources to get the best returns. If we think about what strategy is, okay, so a lot of people use this word and no one really defines what it means. And so I'm going to define two words for the audience that I think will will make a lot of sense. So strategy is just prioritization of resources. So when people are like, man, I really need a strategy. It's like, it just means what are my priorities? That's all it is. And so if we think about the universe as having unlimited things that we could do.

• 49:48Alex Hormozi?

  But we have limited resources, time, money, energy, effort. Then the people who get the furthest in life are the ones who are the best at allocating. Getting those resources to get the most bang for the buck. And fundamentally, that's what the best strategists are. It's just this big amorphous word that people define in all sorts of ways, but that's all it is. Then it's like, okay, well, if I'm going to prioritize my resources, I want to prioritize my resources in a way that provides the most value. And so for customers, I see value as this value equation, which I taught in the $100 million offers book, which is I see there's four variables to value. You've got the dream outcome, like is the thing, the thing they want, the need thing that you're referencing earlier. We've got perceived likelihood of achievement, which is if I buy this thing, how likely is it that I'm actually going to get what I want? And this is actually the last one that I added to this because I was like, there was another thing that felt like it was missing.

• 50:31Alex Hormozi?

  You've got time delay, which is how long is it going to take between when I buy and when I get? And then I've got sacrifice and effort. So there are two sides of the same coin. Effort is what are the things that I have to start doing as a result of this purchase that I don't want to do? And what are the sacrifices, what are the things I'm going to have to stop doing that I wish I could keep doing? And so fundamentally, the goal here is you want to increase the dream outcome as much as humanly possible and increase the perceived likelihood. And you want to decrease the time delay and decrease the effort and sacrifice. And so in a perfect world, you'd have something that they click a button. They get their dream outcome absolutely guaranteed immediately by doing nothing. And if you had that, you'd have an infinitely valuable product. If you think about like, hey, buy a six pack. If someone could just simply click a button and then all of a sudden they could pull their shirt up and they would have a six pack. Press that button by now.

• 51:15Alex Hormozi?

  Of course, so many people would. And so, and then because of that, we'd be able to charge a tremendous amount of money. And so by thinking through this, these, these things, in my opinion, will never change. People will always want things to be faster. People always want to do less for them. They will always want to have less risk or a higher perceived likelihood of achievement. And they want to make sure the thing is actually what they want. I, obviously, I use fitness examples a lot because a lot of people understand it. But it's like, okay, let's say that someone wants to lose weight. Okay, that's the dream outcome. Then why is it that a PDF is $5 about how to lose weight? And liposuction is 50 grand? Well, the other three variables. So if I think about the PDF, if I buy a $5 PDF, when I make the purchase, do I really believe that I'm immediately going to lose weight? Probably not.

• 51:57Alex Hormozi?

  And so there's a huge discount that I'm going to put on the value of the PDF because I don't think I'm really going to do anything with it. Whereas liposuction, if I pay it, they're going to put me to sleep, they're going to rip this fat out. But like, so the perceived likelihood of achievement significantly higher on the liposuction. For time delay, it's like, okay, this one, I might have to work out for a year in order to see the results. The liposuction, I go to sleep, I wake up, I'm thin. Much faster and then effort and sacrifice. Well, I'm gonna have to sacrifice, you know, Taco Tuesdays, nights out with the girls. I'm gonna have to sacrifice sleeping in. I can't do that anymore. Sacrifice my weekends. And the effort is I now have to wake up early. I have to eat food that I don't like. I'm gonna have to be sore. I'm gonna have to feel stupid because I don't know how to exercise. It's like, there's a lot of costs with that compared

• 52:39Alex Hormozi?

  to you just wake up and you didn't do anything. And so for that reason, one thing's $5, the other thing's 50 grand. And so if we think through that, like, there's many different things that solve losing weight, making more money, you know, getting more leads. There's a ton of different things. But if you want to make sure that your thing's more valuable, you want to decrease the risk, which is increased perceived likelihood, you want to make it faster, decrease the time delay, and you want to make it easier.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  This framework works so well, a case study like Blockbusters. They didn't keep their advantage.

• 53:04Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 53:05Speaker 01

  Because people wanted it quicker. They could go into Netflix. Originally, it was getting posted to them. Blockbusters didn't think people want it posted. They thought it was more convenient for people to go to a store and buy it. And so there was a less time delay. There's less sacrifice. Just press a button at home. People don't keep their advantages. They die like Blockbusters do. So you've got to keep thinking about how you can make this. This is a brilliant equation, by the way. I'm glad you went a bit deep on it because I think a lot of people just talk about this top line. As you say, they don't think about the time delay and they don't think about the sacrifice element.

• 53:31Alex Hormozi?

  It's so funny you say that because the first, the first half of my career, all I thought about was, was this. So all I did was I had bigger promises, more proof. Bigger promises, more proof. But if I look at the, the biggest companies in the world, all they focus on is this. Amazon's like, how do I make it easier? How do I make it faster? How to make it, how to make it less effort for the person? And this part is usually where all of the operational effort goes in. This is all the marketing and sales.

• 53:56Speaker 01

  Totally. Plus, this promise, if you make it too big, you damage your brand. This is why it's all linked together.

• 54:00Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 54:00Speaker 01

  Because if you're not careful, you, you want to get that big sale and you sell something you haven't actually got.

• 54:06Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 54:06Speaker 01

  And then you're in real trouble. Right, next.

• 54:08Alex Hormozi?

  Stick with it.

• 54:08Speaker 01

  Stick with it. Right.

• 54:09Alex Hormozi?

  The difference between number two in the world and number one practically for running is a tenth of a second. But the difference between being number one in the world and number two is everything. And so all of the best gains come at the very end of the compounding. It comes from the very deep knowledge that only comes from repeating many failures in a very narrow field. And so it's actually one of my favorite definitions for an expert. Somebody who's who's made more mistakes than anyone else in a very narrow field.

• 54:34Speaker 01

  How do people stick with it though? Because, I mean, social media is a great example. First three years I did social media, I made no money. It probably cost me a million pounds.

• 54:40Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 54:41Speaker 01

  So it's only the last year and a half. I've actually started to be able to make money and be able to pay the team and all the rest of it. So I I I look at it as a purpose thing. Right, I'm trying to fix the education system. It's broken. It should be teaching the skills that you and I are trying to give people for free. What do you think is the formula there?

• 54:55Alex Hormozi?

  So I'm gonna I'm gonna go back to something that I said at the very beginning. So if motivation is equal to deprivation, you need to feel deprived of of something. And the examples I gave, you know, if you're starving, you're hungry. If you're sleepy, you you're if you're if you're exhausted, you're motivated to sleep. But money doesn't work the same way. Because if you take that that logical extreme and say, OK, well, then all poor people should be more motivated to make money than anything. And the reality is they're not. So why is that? So because all the ones that I first said are all physiological needs. The other one is completely made up. Money is only, I mean, in terms of humanity, it's a very new thing, right? And so it's a psychological construct. The idea is that the deprivation actually is completely made in our own minds. You know, Harvard at least did this did this study, which is they talk about your reference group,

• 55:40Alex Hormozi?

  which is the biggest predictor of people's long term financial being is their reference group, which is. And this is important is that it's the five people you compare yourself to, not the five that we spend the most time with. And I think that's a huge, a huge difference. You want to take advice, not from the people who are closest to you, but the people who are closest to your goals. Take advice from them. And people are like, oh, yeah, I'll take advice from them. But when you're about to make a big life changing decision, who do you talk to? If you're talking to the people closest to you, none of them have relevant experience. And if you don't want their lives, then definitely don't listen to what they say. Right, and it's very hard because that's what makes it feel so lonely, I think, in the beginning, because you have no one to talk to. And so that's why I'm such a big believer in heroes, heroes and mentors. So mentors are people who actually interact with you. But heroes are just like, what would Warren Buffett do?

• 56:25Alex Hormozi?

  You know, some people are religious. What would Jesus do? Whatever your thing is, right? Like, who's that? Who's that idea? And sometimes, you know, one of my phrases is like, what is the ideal version of me do? What's the person I want to become do? And all this again around doing, because if I do those things, like I might not be a patient person, but if I pretend to be patient for five years, people start calling me patient. I might actually be patient because all I did was patient things, even though I don't feel patient, right? And so it's like, we can change basically how we feel and what we do don't need to be connected at all. So you can feel horrible and still do things and be kind. And people like, you can feel like a very nasty person because of the things that you think and the things that you want to do. But as long as you don't do them, then the only thing the world will ever judge you on, or at least the only thing that I would ever judge you on is what you do. And so it's like, okay, motivation deprivation.

• 57:07Alex Hormozi?

  So back to this, in my opinion, I've always struggled with this question the most because it's never been an issue for me. And I think, and that's, and that's why it's one of the hardest things that I have to translate to somebody else. So everything that I have is more around, how do I translate how I see it more than this was the series of steps I followed to become motivated? I was so afraid of failing. I was so deprived of respect, or at least how I perceived it. Not continuing was just never a choice. And I always used to think when I was like, the earliest days of the gym was really tough for me. I was sleeping on the floor, the whole, the whole, the whole story, right? And it sounds, it sounds cool in retrospect, but when it's like, you're sleeping on the floor of a gym because you can't afford two places. And you know, if you've got kids the same ages as you who are partying on the rooftop of your gym, because it was below parking garage is where my gym was. So this parking garage, but like these cars would drive over the top, it's like, and

• 57:52Alex Hormozi?

  it was, it was concrete and metal. So it just sounded like a gunshot and it would happen all night long. So I couldn't sleep, but I'd have to wake up at four to teach the 4:30 class and I taught all the classes. So I'd take eight classes a day, but then I also ran the whole business. I had zero employees. So I did all the billing, I cleaned it, I fixed the equipment, I marketed and got leads, I did everything. I didn't know that employees were a thing. That's why I have it as one of the steps. I had no idea. Whenever it would be really hard for me, I would, I would always think to myself, as long as I don't quit, I win. If I just keep going, I just have to survive. Just kind of approaching it from that perspective, because the, the more painful thing was the idea of going home of failure and I just couldn't do it. I was like, I would rather die. And I think, thinking through like past human experiences, which is, okay, across all the globe, slavery has happened everywhere.

• 58:37Alex Hormozi?

  And slaves for their entire lives, for thousands of years, had to work all day, every day, and they had no opportunity. They had to work all day, every day, but there was no upside. They just had to work all day, every day, or they die or get killed or whatever. And so I was like, if they can do it with no upside, I can absolutely do it with the chance that I can win. And I think seeing business as an infinite game is what was a huge perspective shift for me, which was, there is no number one in business. And this was something that was like really, like it's, for anybody who's listening to this, I think it's powerful to understand. Is if I were to say, hey, who was the richest man in the world 30 years ago? It was a couple of Japanese guys, because the Japanese economy was booming at that time. Now, no one even knows who they are. And that was just 30 years, forget 500 years.

• 59:21Alex Hormozi?

  And so the thing is, is the number one guy in the world at business, if you want to measure it by net worth, which, whatever. But even if you did, it's like, that guy just touches the top for a decade, and then someone else touches the top. And so when we say, I want to, I want to be successful, success is about sticking with it. And so the only way that you become a failure in business is by stopping. And so all the infinite games, like all the games worth playing in life, in my opinion, are all infinite. So it's not about, it's not about getting married, it's about staying married. It's not about getting in shape, it's about staying in shape. It's not about starting a business, it's about staying in business. And the only thing that gets you out of business is you choosing to stop. And I think that's a very powerful thing, because it puts it 100% in your control. And so as long as you keep trying, you're still in business. And I think a lot of people give up so much, they give up just on the idea of a negative comment, or some Snyder remark from a friend of theirs,

• 1:00:07Alex Hormozi?

  or either their dad or their brothers, you know, makes them try to feel stupid for, for taking a risk that they were unwilling to take. And I think that's bullshit. A lot of times, there's, there's a lot of social media stuff, I don't think there's anything wrong with it that talks about like, find your passion, find your purpose, find the thing that you love. And I think that's great. But when I started, you know, my first business, I wasn't doing it because it was something I was passionate about. It was not, it was not this like sunshine and rainbows, it was miserable. I had a lot of shame, not a lot of anger. And so I didn't feel any of the butterflies, but that's what I had. And so it's like, I think you just use what you got. And if you need shame to get you going, if you need, if you need anger to get you going, then you can, that fuel can change over time. But wishing you had a different fuel, I think, is what gets people in trouble.

• 1:00:51Alex Hormozi?

  I think that's what, that's what stops a lot of people. Like, I should feel, it's like you should nothing. It should just, it shouldn't exist. It's just what do you have and what are you gonna do? I'll say the last piece is they're trade offs. And I think being able to name the price of the things that you want is super valuable.

• 1:01:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:08Alex Hormozi?

  Which is like, you know, the, the, the cost of, of, of fame, for example, is privacy.

• 1:01:13Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:14Alex Hormozi?

  You don't get that anymore. And the cost of you starting a business is for, you know, for me, it was like, I stopped being able to follow the, the football team that I used to follow. I stopped being in fantasy leagues with my friends. I stopped being able to go out to, you know, the bar and drink and things like that. So there was a cost.

• 1:01:29Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:01:30Alex Hormozi?

  And so the thing was just like, am I willing to pay that or trade that for this thing that I want most? And I think for some people, maybe you don't want that.

• 1:01:37Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:01:38Alex Hormozi?

  And I think the thing is, is like, and that's okay. But I think the problem is where you, you want, you want to have your cake and eat it too.

• 1:01:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:44Alex Hormozi?

  I want to have the six pack, but I also want to have cake. I wanna, you know, I wanna, I wanna.

• 1:01:48Speaker 01

  Well, you have to say, you've got six.

• 1:01:49Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah. Well, you gotta know how to play the game.

• 1:01:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:53Alex Hormozi?

  Uh, but it's, it's, it's that it's, it's people aren't willing to make the trade. And I think that just comes down to the very bottom of everything. Like when I wanted to, you know, there was a period where I wanted to get into Harvard's business school. When I had, I'd done two years of consulting and that was what I thought was gonna be my path. But I'm always very grateful for them because on one of the application questions they had was, how will Harvard MBA help your short and long term goals?

• 1:02:13Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:02:13Alex Hormozi?

  And I thought about it for like three days and I realized that, well, I wanted to start a business. And so me start doing another two years of school, I could just start a business. Like that was the, the goal. And so I'm grateful that they asked me that question. But before I ended up getting to the application, I spent four months taking, um, I basically did 10 phone books of problems because I read this research study on, uh, on standardized testing, which said basically it was just a direct correlation between the number of problems that you did before taking the test, was directly correlated with your score. And as soon as I saw that, I was like, oh, I'll just do all of the problems. And so I did 16, like, it was, it was, it was huge. It was like, I, it was, it was standing on the floor, books are probably like the really thin Bible paper, like really thin paper. And so I did four hours a day of problems for four months. It's all I did. I just did problems.

• 1:02:59Alex Hormozi?

  And so I got above Harvard's mid score. For me, it was like, this is the only thing that I have to do and this is what I care about most. They were like, how do you stay motivated? It was like, I don't know, I just didn't have any other choice because the alternative was just was something I wasn't willing to do.

• 1:03:10Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:03:10Alex Hormozi?

  And I think a lot of people aren't willing to cut things. Like I've been, I'd say one of the things that's been, you know, blessed with, if you want to say that is, um, I'm very willing to cut people and things out of my life. Very quickly.

• 1:03:22Speaker 01

  I think it's healthy to do that. First of all, I feel a little bit emotional hearing you talk about that. I don't know why that's triggering something in me. Um, do you know what it is? Cause I I have the same problem trying to help people have a better life. They kind of got to help themselves. What do you think of this? Like, you know, I think it's Pablo's Cave where uh people get brought a fish in a cave every day. And it's easier, right? They don't ever leave the cave because that's what a salary kind of is. The food comes to you every day. And people forgot how fucking amazing it is to go out in the rain with your mates and hunt. Or or go together and make the food and men and women made food, men and women went out hunting in the old days, but like, you know, like, there was no fridge.

• 1:03:56Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:57Speaker 01

  There was no get up and eat shit.

• 1:03:58Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:03:59Speaker 01

  It was get up and go out and make shit happen. And you know what what it is? I think that, and it's absolutely fine if people don't want to do it, but I don't want people to say they can't be an entrepreneur or they can't sell. I want to be honest. They can't be bothered.

• 1:04:09Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:10Speaker 01

  Cause and I think the key is, and you you described your story, I have a similar story. I love the hunger I have from the deprivation that I had. The Vikings used to land places and burn the boats that got them there. Then they got no fucking choice.

• 1:04:23Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:23Speaker 01

  And I think that's what people need to do. If they really want to do it, they need to burn the boats they've got. They can't go back to the cushy job that middle class life. That's it. You're in or you're out.

• 1:04:30Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:31Speaker 01

  And then, like you say, you got to like figure out what you're going to cut out. It's going to give you the goal you want.

• 1:04:35Alex Hormozi?

  So especially in the beginning, you have limited resources, right? You have limited time because you have no leverage. You have no one helping you. And you probably don't have that much money. And so time is the only thing that you have that you really have to be uh really careful with. And so that's it's what are the what are the activities? Does this activity, you know, like drinking, for example, is this like, does this does this increase the likelihood of my goals? That's it. Does it increase the likelihood of my goal? Does does does having these friends in my life increase the likelihood of my goals? And the answer is usually pretty obvious. It it doesn't. And then the thing is, is that most people are, again, just cowards.

• 1:05:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:05:08Alex Hormozi?

  Is that they're not willing to just make the make the cut.

• 1:05:11Speaker 01

  But I'm pretty sure you live the same framework that you did when you were younger. Like, I act like I've got no money. The motivation thing really gets to me because sticking with it, which is the theme around this, is all to down to perhaps limiting your choices, not increasing them. Some people have too many choices.

• 1:05:24Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:24Speaker 01

  You know, like, die on the hill, you know, like, go for it.

• 1:05:28Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:28Speaker 01

  And people don't do it. So, okay, getting better. This is the one step before we get a million dollars. So I'm looking forward to the uh million dollars in cash.

• 1:05:36Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Speaker 01

  All right, getting better. Cause I I've done all these things, so I I hopefully a big suitcase of money's coming my way. Get better.

• 1:05:42Alex Hormozi?

  So I'll, um, I'll describe a process that, uh, that I, I do, and it's all based on action. So I define work, right, as volume times leverage, which is how much you do and how much you get for each time you do it. Because that equals output, which if you're looking at this transitive property, work equals output. So it's not about hard to try, it's about what you get done. And if you have more leverage, you get more done. Now, if you do a lot of work, so I'll give you a simple example. So if you were, if you, if we're learning sales, right? So if I start cold calling and I do a hundred calls a day and I have low skill, then I will have low leverage. I'm going to get fewer appointments than somebody who makes the same amount of calls as me and has high skill. They'll book five times the appointments as I will. So did they work more? In my world, yes, they had higher output.

• 1:06:27Alex Hormozi?

  And so a lot of times it's like, you have to learn how to work. But the thing is, is that how did that guy who is good get good? He did volume, he did a lot. And so then it's like, okay, if this is our equation for output in terms of getting better, the getting better part is going to be leverage. This, this is a constant, you have to do work, you have to do volume. Okay, so we start with the doing, which is the volume. Cool, so we have that first. And so whatever it is, so let's say it's, I want to start making, uh, you know, Instagram reels. Fine, I want to get good at Instagram reels. So it's like, great, so I'm going to make a hundred Instagram reels. And this is the part that people, well, people, people don't even do this, but let's assume that you did this, okay? So you do the hundred Instagram reels. People then say, well, I did a hundred and nothing happened. It's like, okay, so then what we do is we look at our hundred, let's say this is, you know, the, the, the hundred reels that we did.

• 1:07:12Alex Hormozi?

  We say, what's different about these, about these top ones? And what's different about these?

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  Singers do this all the time, don't they? They put a music out all the time. 60% of Adele's songs never went in the top 10 or something.

• 1:07:21Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, really?

• 1:07:21Speaker 01

  You know, so yeah, this is that, that they also do it.

• 1:07:24Alex Hormozi?

  And so then, once we figure out, and this is where you have to, this is where you have to be as detailed as possible. And a lot of times you'll start having almost superstitions. It's like, okay, I coughed at the beginning of this call. Well, that was different. Well, did all of your top 10 calls, did you cough? Well, no, okay, then disregard that. So you run something called a common factors analysis, which is just saying, what do all these ones have in common? What do these ones all have in common with each other? But it's different than all of these ones. And so once we do that, we say, okay, so my next hundred that I do, I want them to look like this. And then all of a sudden, it's like, huh, I got 30% better on my total views by just doing more of the stuff that worked.

• 1:07:57Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:07:58Alex Hormozi?

  And so this process, you just do for like 10 years.

• 1:08:03Alex Hormozi?

  And you just keep doing it over and over again. I mean, like, the first YouTube video that I did, I think probably had like, you know, 100 views or whatever it was. And for anybody who's listening to this, like, Simon had a big business, but I'm assuming that when you started, you had zero subscribers when you started your account. Right. And so did I across all platforms. And so people have this idea that like, everyone starts at zero. And I'll also give you this other kind of word of encouragement, which is there's a huge media narrative around the idea that like, millionaires and billionaires are evil. I don't know why, but there is. What's interesting about that, if you look, at least in the US, the statistics are that it's the overwhelming majority of millionaires and billionaires are self-made, not inherited. And so it's like,

• 1:08:45Alex Hormozi?

  okay, wait, if the majority of them are self-made, then that means they all started at zero. And so they had the same thing. So let's say they didn't have a lot of money.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Actually, being having zero, starting at zero is competitive advantage.

• 1:08:55Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, yeah, we have nothing to lose.

• 1:08:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. Anyone with zero, you don't realize that you've got an advantage.

• 1:09:00Alex Hormozi?

  You have no money, and all you have is time. And that means that you're in the exact same position as every self-made millionaire and billionaire when they started. And the only difference is that right now, you're a self-made poor person. It's just that no one likes to claim it.

• 1:09:13Speaker 01

  By the way, self-made doesn't exist because everyone had help.

• 1:09:16Alex Hormozi?

  Oh, for sure. No, no.

• 1:09:17Speaker 01

  But you're concept.

• 1:09:18Alex Hormozi?

  In terms of starting here.

• 1:09:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, we know you can have nothing and still make it. Do you know what's really interesting about this for people listening as well? Like, I've invested in 78 companies. I know you've invested in a lot of businesses as well. Sometimes too much money can destroy a business. I've seen people like WeWorks, for example, but their biggest problem was they never thought about actually making money. Their business was raising money. Right? So I think that that's another thing people don't really quite grasp. But getting better, I mean, do you think there's a mental framework to help people get better? Because I mean, even myself, right? I'm pretty good at business. I've had to get better to compete. But is there a framework for getting better as a human? Like, do you think?

• 1:09:57Alex Hormozi?

  Is a human being not as a business person?

• 1:09:58Speaker 01

  Yeah, I think they're linked, but what?

• 1:10:00Alex Hormozi?

  Well, I mean, I really 100% live on that common factors analysis thing. So if I look at, so I'll tell you how I lived my whole life. So like, the thing that started this was I was 21, 21 or 22, and this is my first job out of college. And I remember I had a really good weekend. I was just like, in a good mood, came in on Monday, and my boss was like, hey, what's going on? I was like, I just, you know, had a good weekend. She said to me this line that I just, it kind of like hit me. She said, I'm pretty sure stringing as many days in a row like that as you can is the secret to living. And what it did, though, was it took this whole, this amorphous idea of like joy, contentment, purpose, and just made it really tactical. It was like, okay, how do I live as many days in a row as I can of days that I like? So I looked back at like last year and I say,

• 1:10:45Alex Hormozi?

  okay, what were the days that I liked the most? What were my top 10% days? Well, the things that I had in common as I worked out. Okay, cool, I did that. I ate with people I like, ate with friends, and then I worked until I had nothing left. If I do that on all my days, then more of my days will look like that. And so the majority of my days now feel like what used to be top 10% days. And so obviously, these are different for other people. It might be playing music, it might be whatever, you know, whatever your thing is, but that common factors analysis. And it's like, okay, what are the top 10? You know, we've, you know, Leyland have gone on 100 dates. Okay, the top 10 dates, what do they have in common? Okay, well, Alex.

• 1:11:19Speaker 01

  Have you done that?

• 1:11:19Alex Hormozi?

  Alex got flowers. I think about all of it. Yeah.

• 1:11:21Speaker 01

  How do we say it better? It's brilliant.

• 1:11:23Alex Hormozi?

  Alex got flowers, right? He got flowers. He had a gift.

• 1:11:26Speaker 01

  Is this coming from her side?

• 1:11:27Alex Hormozi?

  Yeah, free plan. No, he had free plan. He had pre-planned something.

• 1:11:30Speaker 01

  Right. She's told you her list.

• 1:11:32Alex Hormozi?

  Notes. I wrote some sort of note, right? And so, and we dress up. And so those are the things. They're like, this is my, this is my recipe for making good dates. And so it's like, a lot of, a lot of times, it's like, no one just takes the, the look back and says, okay, what, but it's because they don't start with the, I did stuff. That's the first step. Like, you gotta do the 100 reps. You gotta do, make the 100 posts. You gotta make the 100, you gotta make the 100 cold calls. You gotta make the 100 sales and you gotta record them. And that's the other piece. Like, you have to be able to record it. Whatever, whatever, to the greatest degree possible, you have to recall what were the details. And so then you look, see the common factors, like, all right, well, I'm gonna only do those five next time. And by, by randomness, because life happens in, there's variables that are out of our control. Again, there's gonna be another top 10% in the next 100 dates. And we're like, okay, so in those days,

• 1:12:17Alex Hormozi?

  not only did I do these five things, but I, we had a driver, was a, was a big difference. And there was a surprise element for some of these. And at a certain point, the thing is, is the, the improvement's gonna go like this, right? Just like that, just like that sales thing. You know, the first time you do this, your, your dates are gonna get way better, right? And then after that, though, the dates are gonna get incrementally better. But all that happens is like, man, people are gonna be like, how do you have such a healthy relationship? You're like, you know, all I did was I just looked at the stuff that worked, and I just stopped doing the stuff that didn't. And I just did it over and over and over.

• 1:12:48Speaker 01

  Amazing, Alex. Honestly, you're an amazing human being. I love this. I hope you guys enjoyed it. We're off to have some chicken now. We'll see you later.