SEALs Disrespect John Chapman Again | Matt Cubbler & Lori Chapman Longfritz | Ep. 323

Lori's book "Alone at Dawn"⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Alone-Dawn-Recipient-Deadliest-Operations/dp/1538729652/ref=asc_df_1538729652?tag=bingshoppinga-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=79920832001483&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=&hvtargid=pla-4583520386299563&psc=1 Sign the petition⬇️ https://www.change.org/p/demand-for-john-chapman-s-full-exhibit-in-the-national-medal-of-honor-museum?recruiter=1363137387&recruited_by_id=75acb0e0-d526-11ef-ab2a-3320a00e6bf1&utm_source=share_petition&utm_campaign=share_petition&utm_medium=copylink&utm_content=cl_sharecopy_490381559_en-US%3A7 Predator video ⬇️ https://youtu.be/Swp6k6o9gy8?si=S136jbmcdDjBfC3P John Chapman’s MOH citation⬇️ https://www.airforcespecialtactics.af.mil/About/History/Honors/#:~:text=Award%20Citation%3A,beyond%20the%20call%20of%20duty. Britt Slabinski’s MOH citation⬇️ https://www.navy.mil/MEDAL-OF-HONOR-RECIPIENT-BRITT-K-SLABINSKI/ ——————————————————————- Order Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" today! ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ Support the show here:⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse ___________________________________________________ Subscribe to the new EYES ON podcast here:⬇️ https://www.youtube.com/@EyesOnPodcast/featured —————————————————————- Today's Sponsors: GhostBed⬇️ https://www.ghostbed.com/house FOR 50% OFF!!! Mando ⬇️ https://shopmando.com Promo code "TEAMHOUSE" for 40% off your starter pack. ____________________________________ Pre-order Jack Murphy's new book "We Defy: The Lost Chapters of Special Forces History" today! ⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/We-Defy-Chapters-Special-History-ebook/dp/B0DCGC1N1N/ —————————————————————— To help support the show and for all bonus content including: https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse -AD FREE AUDIO -AD FREE VIDEO -Access to ALL bonus segments with our guests Subscribe to our Patreon! ⬇️ https://www.patreon.com/TheTeamHouse Or make a one time donation at: ⬇️ https://ko-fi.com/theteamhouse Team House merch: ⬇️ https://teespring.com/stores/my-store-10474963 Social Media: ⬇️ The Team House Instagram: https://instagram.com/the.team.house?utm_medium=copy_link The Team House Twitter: https://twitter.com/TheTeamHousePod Jack’s Instagram: https://instagram.com/jackmcmurph?utm_medium=copy_link Jack’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/jackmurphyrgr?s=21 Dave’s Twitter: https://twitter.com/dave_parke?s=21 Team House Discord: ⬇️ https://discord.gg/wHFHYM6 SubReddit: ⬇️ https://www.reddit.com/r/TheTeamHouse/ Jack Murphy's memoir "Murphy's Law" can be found here:⬇️ https://www.amazon.com/Murphys-Law-Journey-Investigative-Journalist/dp/1501191241 The Team Room Reading Room (Amazon Affiliate links):⬇️ https://jackmurphywrites.com/the-team-room-reading-room/ Intro music by https://www.youtube.com/user/RemixSample Want to sponsor the show? Email: ⬇️ [email protected] 0:00 start Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-team-house--5960890/support?utm_source=rss&utm_medium=rss&utm_campaign=rss.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 0:30Speaker 01

  At Humana, our Medicare Advantage plans are easy to understand and easy on your wallet. Like offering more benefits than you'd get from original Medicare alone, and including dental, vision, and hearing coverage in every plan. And the best part is, every plan has a $0 or low monthly plan premium, which makes it easier to save, too. So this Medicare planning season, plan well with Humana. Learn more at gethumana.com. Humana is a Medicare Advantage, HMO, and PPO organization with a Medicare contract. Enrollment in any Humana plan depends on contract renewal.

• 1:00Jack Murphy?

  Hey, guys, it's Jack. I just wanted to talk to you today about a way that you can help support the podcast if you're not already. To support the channel is to become a Patreon member. So we have Patreon memberships that start at just $5 a month, and when you sign up, you get access to all of our episodes ad-free. That's the big bonus for that. I mean, we also do some Patreon bonus episodes for our subscribers, but this is the biggest and best way that you can support The Team House channel and podcast if you'd like to, and we really appreciate that. So go and check us out at patreon.com/the team house.

• 1:39Speaker 03

  Special Operations. Covert Ops. Espionage. The Team House. With your hosts, Jack Murphy and David Park.

• 2:01Speaker 04

  Hello, everybody. Welcome to episode 323 of The Team House. I'm Dave Park here with Jack Murphy. Tonight, we have a very special guest on. We have Matt Kubler and Lori Chapman Longfritz. Is it Longfritz or Fritz?

• 2:19Speaker 05

  Longfritz.

• 2:19Speaker 04

  Longfritz, thanks. Sorry, I should have asked before. Lori Chapman Longfritz, the sister of John Chapman. And tonight, we will be talking about Matt and Lori. They're both, they're independent efforts, because Matt's done other investigations regarding some of the NSW stuff. But really, what we're going to focus on is John Chapman's story. Lori is one of the co-authors of Alone at Dawn. And we will talk about the latest, the latest goings on, going on about what's going on with the new National Medal of Honor Museum,

• 3:04Speaker 04

  and the fight that many of us are involved in with that. So before we do, we are going to read off, we're going to read off our sponsored message.

• 3:14Jack Murphy?

  Yes. So the first one I want to tell you guys about is Mando. They create a whole-body deodorant. It's created by a doctor who saw firsthand how normal BO is being misdiagnosed and mistreated. It's proven to block all odor, day, all day, and control odor up to 72 hours. The products they offer are a solid-stick deodorant that's formulated and powered by mandelic acid to stop odor before it starts, and spray deodorant, which is aluminum-free and ideal for hard-to-reach places. All products are baking soda-free and paraben-free. Choose from a variety of fresh scents like Bourbon Leather, Clover Woods, Mount Fuji, or Pro Sport. It's clinically proven to control odor better than a shower with soap alone.

• 3:55Jack Murphy?

  12 hours after a shower, it doesn't work so well. But with Mando, you'll have the opposite result. So if you want to try America's number one whole body deodorant formula right now, you can find them in Walmart, Target, and other retailers across the country. For the best deals, go to shopmando.com. Mando Starter Pack is perfect for new customers. It comes with solid stick deodorant, cream tube deodorant, two free products of your choice, like mini body wash and deodorant wipes, and free shipping. As a special offer for listeners, new customers get $5 off a starter pack with our exclusive code that equates to over 40% off your starter pack. Use code TEAMHOUSE at shopmando.com.

• 4:36Jack Murphy?

  That is S-H-O-P-M-A-N-D-O dot com. Please support the show and tell them we sent you. Thank you, guys.

• 4:44Speaker 04

  And our second sponsor for the evening is Ghostbed. If you sleep hot at night, you know just how disruptive it can be, because I do. Whether you're having trouble falling asleep, you're waking up sweating in the middle of the night, or all of the above, that's where Ghostbed can help. As the makers of the coolest beds in the world, Ghostbed is your go-to for cooling mattresses, cooling pillows, and even cooling bedding. From their Sinter Ghost Ice fabric to patented technology that adjusts with your body temperature, every Ghostbed mattress is designed with cooling in mind. So whether you want a plusher mattress that cushions your shoulders and hips, or a firmer option with exceptional support, your Ghostbed will keep you cool and comfortable all night long. When you purchase a Ghostbed mattress, your comfort is guaranteed.

• 5:26Speaker 04

  You can try out your mattress for 101 nights risk-free and make sure it's the right fit for you. Plus, they offer free shipping and most items ship within 24 hours. So also, if you're not in the market for a new mattress at this moment, check out their pillows, check out their bedding. They have a lot of really great stuff. Highly recommend them. Even better, Team House listeners can get up to 50% off site-wide for a limited time. Just visit ghostbed.com/ house and use code HOUSE at checkout. Again, that's ghostbed.com/ house with code HOUSE at checkout to save a whopping 50% off site-wide. Thank you for joining us tonight.

• 6:11Speaker 04

  We really appreciate it. We kind of scheduled this last minute, but you know, it's a story that is going on right now. It's something that many of us have followed. We followed John's story, you know, since.

• 6:25Speaker 04

  For a lot of us outside of, you know, that immediate community, it came to our attention when it was brought up for the Medal of Honor. There were all kinds of shenanigans that went on with that that we'll get into. So, thank you again, both of you. Matt, let's kind of start with you because you said you met Lori about seven years ago, but you've worked on different stories around special operations for a while now. And a couple of them specifically about naval special warfare. Can you give us your background? Because you have a military background too. Can you tell us about your military background? What got you into investigating? And then some of the things you've worked on?

• 7:07Speaker 07

  Sure. Thanks. Once again, thanks for having me on. I'm sure there's probably some people like, what does he have to do with any of this? But it'll tie together here in a second. My background is I was Army Intelligence, active duty in the Gulf War, lived over there. I got out, became a cop, and was a cop for 30 years. So I've been doing investigating and things like that for a long time. The Navy special warfare stuff, that sort of started around 2018, 2019, in that ballpark. And it was only because I was asked to look at the death of Commander Joe Price, who was Commander SEAL Team Four. He was a high

• 7:47Speaker 07

  school classmate of mine. And we weren't friends by the, like, we didn't hang out, we didn't do stuff out of school. But we were in all the same classes because we both were in the academy track academically. So we knew each other well and were rivals, but also liked each other, just not we weren't friends. So when he died, when he was, when he was found dead in his bunk in 2012, December 27, in Terracotta, Afghanistan.

• 8:18Speaker 07

  It surprised me that they said it was suicide, but it wasn't something that I initially would have thought anything nefarious was going on because I didn't have a reason to believe that. Like, there was no inclination for me to even consider it. And why would the Navy lie?

• 8:35Speaker 07

  Yeah, fast forward to 2018, 2019, that's when his father and sister came to me and said, would you mind looking at this? We believe that it's not what the Navy said. Fast forward, I've been working on it now for six years, and we now have enough evidence, forensic evidence, to prove that Joe was murdered. And, you know, there's a lot of things that happened in 2024 that created those opportunities to get that information. And I'm very thankful for it. And we now have a development for a documentary film on not just Joe, but hopefully a wider net focus for the documentary for other naval special warfare corruption cases.

• 9:17Speaker 07

  And I got introduced to Lori as a result of doing this investigation. And a source of mine had known who Lori was and said, hey, you may want to talk to her. There's some similarities between the cover up of John's actions and the way they handled that, especially during the Medal of Honor fiasco. That there should, you guys should probably talk. So, long story short, we talked, had her on my podcast, became very close with her and her family. And my goal now is to be her champion with it. I'm more of a shuttle to the face kind of guy. So sometimes you need that. And I'll be happy to be that for her whenever she asks.

• 10:02Speaker 04

  And Lori, can you tell us, you are one half of the writing team. It was you and Dan

• 10:11Speaker 05

  Dan and Shelly.

• 10:12Speaker 04

  Yeah, Shelly.

• 10:14Speaker 04

  For Alone at Dawn. Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood, about growing up, about John? What led him into the military and all of that?

• 10:27Speaker 05

  Well, first, thank you for having me on also.

• 10:31Speaker 05

  I mean, I could, I could be here for hours talking about growing up with John and, and my sister and brother, um, other brother, um, but John was just a fun kid and, you know, I've told people, I've never really seen him, um, fail at anything. He may have struggled initially, but he, he always finds, he always found a way to, uh, to succeed. Uh, he was ahead of his time in being caring towards people, you know, uh, with learning disabilities, you know, back when we grew up, it wasn't even the teachers didn't, you know, say, hey, you know, this, this kid needs to be included too. Um, and he was one of, he was just the first one that would

• 11:13Speaker 05

  stick up for someone, be there. Um, a young girl lost her dad and was out back in the school, teenagers, he was 15, I think she was 14. And he just sat there with her and said, hey, I'm John and what can I do for you? And, you know, most people, especially teenage boys would have just been, you know, didn't want, wouldn't want anything to do with that. And it was just, that's the kind of person John was. He was there for people, uh, whether he knew you or not.

• 11:43Speaker 05

  As far as going in-

• 11:44Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A plus by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 12:12Speaker 05

  He tried, he tried college. He went to college for a year, a university at Connecticut. And he did pretty much everything he could possibly do to, um, lower his grade GPA.

• 12:25Speaker 05

  He had gone in there being ranked number one in, uh, his, for diving and, and, you know, left being ineligible to dive because of his grades. But, uh, he, he just, college wasn't for him. So he went back, came back to our hometown, Windsor Locks, Connecticut, and, um, worked for about a year for a, uh, a guy doing, um, tow truck and auto repair and stuff like that. And then he just decided, you know what, I want to travel the world. He had always talked about that even when he was little. And in um, he joined the air force.

• 13:02Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 13:02Speaker 05

  And my mom initially, my mom made him promise to try something safe. Um, so he did. And he was miserable. So he at some, you know, he eventually said, Mom, I think I fulfilled my promise. I I need to try something different. And that's when he um, applied to try for the combat control pipeline.

• 13:25Speaker 04

  Okay, and so how long was he in uh, combat control before he went to two four, do you know?

• 13:35Speaker 05

  Well, I know right after he graduated, he went to Okinawa for two, three years. And I want to say after he came back.

• 13:45Speaker 05

  He was, he was at Pope, but I don't think he was at the two four. But that's where he um. Was able to um, be get on there. I'm not, I'm not real clear on on all that.

• 13:58Speaker 04

  Yeah, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's not that important. I was, I was just curious and you know.

• 14:04Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 14:05Speaker 04

  And for anybody, if you guys have not read um. Alone at Dawn, uh, we're not gonna really go deep into the book, but it is a moment by moment of what happened. Uh, during that operation, we have had Alan Mac on, uh, who was the pilot uh, on uh, you know, on the bird that um, Roberts, you know, uh. Fell off of um. And it's also a really great history of combat control because combat control has been around much longer than like some of the other. I, I think they've been along around longer than, you know, some of the other um, like even SF, I believe, right?

• 14:46Jack Murphy?

  I think combat controllers came around to like tail end of Vietnam, didn't they?

• 14:50Speaker 04

  I'm not sure. I'd have to, I read it and then I, it was a lot to read.

• 14:55Speaker 05

  I think the precursor for them was the Pathfinders in World War II.

• 14:59Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 15:00Speaker 05

  I think.

• 15:01Speaker 04

  Right.

• 15:02Speaker 05

  But yeah.

• 15:03Speaker 04

  So, um.

• 15:04Speaker 05

  The guy to have on for that is Dan Schilling. He would be, he'd be an awesome guest for you.

• 15:09Speaker 04

  Yeah. Um, so, and maybe one day we can get you and you guys on together and we can really just kind of dive deep into Alone at Dawn and everything if you guys are willing. But, um, we, for those of you who haven't seen it, there is a video, the Pred feed. Dee, do you know if we can insert that or not? Okay, all right. It's not a problem. Um, I should have asked you before the show and I apologize. Um, so there are videos out there that, of the Pred feed and what the SEALs initially thought would happen. And look, people will say that, you know, the SEALs lied about what

• 15:51Speaker 04

  happened, but we can all, anybody who's been in combat knows about fog of war. And the only people who really know what happens on the ground are the people on the ground and things get confused. All right. So that's an argument that people can have and that's fine. And I'm not going to drag anybody. Um, but what we see in this video is the definition of courage, of fortitude. Um, it's, it's incredible, right? And it showed that John did not die when the SEALs thought that he died, that he fought for many, many

• 16:28Speaker 04

  hours. Um, and then at a certain point in time, the Air Force, I'm going to go ahead and read this from the book if that's okay, because this is how the whole thing came up. Uh, this is starting at chapter 25. So John was awarded the Air Force Cross for actions that day. And it would have remained that, which is this nation's second highest award for selfless action heroism, had it not been for chance, Secretary of the Air Force Deborah Lee James, I'm gonna, she read it, Air Force Times, and the Air Force Times was basically an article,

• 17:08Speaker 04

  what does it take for an airman to get the Medal of Honor? And they gave two other, two examples in it, Senior Airman Dustin Temple, who delivered 80 Americans and Afghans from death the previous September while exposing himself repeatedly to direct enemy fire as he killed 18 enemy combatants, right? And he did not get a Medal of Honor. The other person mentioned in the article was Staff Sergeant Robert Gutierrez, who saved the life of his wounded Green Beret team leader during an ambush, only to be shot in the chest himself. His lungs collapsed, yet he refused to get off the radio and stopped calling airstrikes, some within 30 feet of his location, thereby saving his entire special forces team.

• 17:53Speaker 04

  The Green Beret medic jammed a syringe into his chest to reinflate his lungs, so it sounded like he had tension pneumothorax and was decompressed. And so, the Secretary, Secretary James said, hey, that's a good question, what does it take? Because there hadn't been a Medal of Honor during the GWOT, and there's only been one Medal of Honor awarded an airman for, or a CCT during Vietnam, correct? So what you have is you have these guys, these amazing guys, because both CCT and pararescue, they do not get a lot of attention, but they are, they are almost always there in the thick of the fight.

• 18:34Speaker 04

  And, and especially these CCT guys, their ability to keep calm and work multiple problems under pressure is, is astounding for anybody who's ever been in a firefight and seen these guys work. So what you have, though, is they're attached, right? They're always attached. And it seems like because they're attached, maybe they don't always get the recognition that they deserve. That, that, you know.

• 19:04Speaker 05

  They don't seek the recognition.

• 19:06Speaker 04

  Right. Absolutely. So she put out, Secretary James put out a memo, said, hey, find me, find out if there are any people who are qualified under these standards, very strict standards, for the Medal of Honor. Not, she wasn't trying to, you know, fudge anything, she just wanted to know. And the answer came back with John. The answer came back, look, this is, this is the video of what he did. And the Air Force was behind it, JSOC was behind it, but the award ran into resistance.

• 19:48Speaker 04

  Do you guys want to kind of talk about that at all?

• 19:55Speaker 07

  Lori, you wrote the book.

• 19:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, as soon as, like, John was the Navy's, the SEALs' hero for saving their lives on Takagar in March of 2002. And he was their hero for, oh, when did that start? 2014, 2015, something like that? The, the push. So for all those years, he was their hero until everything that they tried to, to, to stop his medal didn't work. You know, they, they first tried to, you know, say, he, they just started to try to trash him, like, he went against orders, and he should have done this, and he didn't do that.

• 20:39Speaker 05

  Like, ultimately, you know, it was a shit show, and he did what he had to do. He, you know, he stepped off the helicopter right behind the team leader and who fell, post-holden fell. And John's the one who, you know, went out the, uh, people who were fight, uh, shooting at them. And he killed two of them and then went for the next one and, you know, he saved their lives and yet now they're, now he's not their hero. Now he, they're trying to discredit him in any way they could. And then of course, once none of their tactics worked, the last ditch effort was, okay, fine. If, if he's gonna get it, then so is our guy gonna get it. And that's how that came about.

• 21:23Speaker 04

  And that, that guy would be Britt Slabinski, correct?

• 21:27Speaker 05

  Yes, yes. And, um, his package was denied three times. Um, before, you know, I don't know miraculously in the 11th hour, some backdoor drug deal. I don't know, or, um, next thing you know, they're both being signed at the, you know, and sent to the White House. And it's like, basically Slavinsky's was tied to John's. If you're not gonna sign Slavinsky's, then John's not getting one either.

• 21:53Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 21:54Speaker 07

  And then, and another part of that is the, the important part that shows the, the true heroism beyond what he did when he first went off the helicopter. The second half of what happened that day was classified. And they wouldn't allow it to be in a citation, which would clearly, you know, not the Navy SEALs in good light. And I think that was obviously very strategically done to protect Slavinsky's Medal of Honor validity versus, uh, for any classification reasons that something needed to be classified.

• 22:29Speaker 04

  Right.

• 22:29Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, how, how is it classified that he engaged and killed the enemy in combat? Like, it's not a, not a secret here.

• 22:35Speaker 04

  Right.

• 22:36Speaker 05

  Yeah, they split, they split the, the citation in half and, you know, there's part one and part two. And one part is classified. I mean, everybody knows it, but it's classified.

• 22:47Speaker 04

  Right, we can, we can watch it.

• 22:49Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 22:51Speaker 05

  Yeah, right.

• 22:52Speaker 04

  Yeah. Um, and you know, and, and up until this point, uh, and to make your point about him being...

• 23:02Speaker 04

  Highly regarded there. You mentioned in the book that he was the only non SEAL on the Wall of Honor in Virginia Beach. Like, they recognized what he had done. And, and again, I don't want to stray into, this was all naval special warfare. This seemed to be a few people with a lot of influence.

• 23:28Speaker 04

  That there are probably, you know, quite a few SEALs who felt differently about it.

• 23:35Speaker 07

  I think, I will say this, and I'll just add for my edification, is while it may not be NSW that was as a whole community that did this during the Medal of Honor drama back in 2017-ish timeframe, they didn't stop it. They allowed SEAL Team Six to do what they did as far as collectively SEAL Team Six did everything they could to ensure John didn't get a Medal of Honor. And then when, like Lori said, when all efforts failed, they attached Slavinsky's to his. And, you know, so just because they didn't actively, as a community, engage, they didn't actively disengage SEAL Team Six from it either.

• 24:18Speaker 05

  And, you know- But those who were active were the same ones who were active right after, I mean, immediately after Tahrir Ghar. They're the same ones who are active with the Medal of Honor, and they're the same ones who are active now.

• 24:31Speaker 04

  Right. And when we talk about that, we're, and these are names that have come up in previous shows with other guests, we're talking about Sizmanzki-

• 24:38Jack Murphy?

  Sizmanzki.

• 24:39Speaker 04

  Sizmanzki, and, and Slavinsky, and then are there other people that I'm leaving out?

• 24:47Speaker 05

  Well, I know there was Jared Williams, who was there in the Command Center there in Tahrir, Afghanistan, who was pushing for them to go back to get Roberts and do the mission.

• 25:02Speaker 05

  You know, with no planning or whatever. So I know he's he's involved. He was involved in in the um. The efforts to kill the medal, I believe. And he may very well be still involved in in this whole museum thing, too.

• 25:19Speaker 04

  Yeah, and I I think I think it was. Didn't Alan say that Zmatsky was part of like it was kind of his planning? That was very questionable.

• 25:30Jack Murphy?

  This, yeah, I mean, the same names come up again and again.

• 25:33Speaker 04

  Yes, yeah. And, you know, and even as early as two thousand three, when uh ten uh January two thousand three, when John was awarded the Cross uh the Air Force Cross. There was still, there was debate at the time of whether he should get the Medal of Honor.

• 25:52Speaker 05

  Yeah, I don't I don't know how many people are on the panel um when when somebody gets it up, you know, put up for an award. I I want to say five, but I I'm not positive, but I do know that whoever and I'm assume they're generals and, you know, high high ranking individuals. There were at least three of them who had written in their copies in the margin Medal of Honor. So, yeah, there had been some some debate. Um, and people thinking this this is Medal of Honor stuff way back then.

• 26:22Speaker 04

  Now, was was the pred feed known at that time or was it discovered later on?

• 26:29Speaker 05

  I think they knew it right from the start.

• 26:30Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 26:31Speaker 05

  I know I'm not positive. We weren't told about it right. Well. I don't know the timeframe. We had heard about it. We was never saw it in in those beginning years.

• 26:41Speaker 04

  Right, right. And and, you know, to put this forward even more, like in two thousand four or five, you guys received word that the Navy was going to rename a ship after John.

• 26:53Speaker 04

  Um, that, you know, like, people knew, people were aware of the heroism that was displayed, but the general public didn't know until the predator, until the predator feed was released.

• 27:06Speaker 05

  Right.

• 27:08Speaker 05

  Pretty much, I mean, yeah.

• 27:09Speaker 04

  Yeah. And so was, go ahead, Matt.

• 27:13Speaker 07

  There was no, there was no reason for the Navy to let anybody know there was a Fred feed, because it wasn't, at the time, they weren't able to say who's who's, just little black dots.

• 27:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 27:24Speaker 07

  So for, for, for who, where the enemy was, and, and watching how, what happened with the, the chopper crashes and stuff like that, that I'm sure it had training value and, and intelligence value for that, but it didn't really have a public value. And it didn't have a public value until they were able to use, um, the, the laser, or, or whatever was on the mount of the rifle, that they're able to, it emitted a signal, they're able to identify the, that, that one was on that rifle. And, and that's how they were able to do it. And then it became a public interest, because now it's, it's actually video evidence of what happened that day.

• 28:01Speaker 04

  Right.

• 28:01Speaker 07

  And, and I think that's, that's where, you know, I don't know, Samansky and those guys were, were hoping to God that never happened, but technology was going to advance to a point where that was going to be able to be done. And I think they were hoping that enough distance and time between the, the mission itself and, and the revelation of that information, that, that people wouldn't care that much. And I don't think they were prepared for the Air Force to do the, the Medal of Honor when they did, when that came out, you know?

• 28:28Speaker 04

  Right. Did, did, did that happen, was this, did that happen as a result? Did they go back and like, relook the video as a result of Secretary James asking? Or do you know if, do you know what the timeline on that was? Uh, how the video was parsed out, why it was parsed out, uh, in, was it in conjunction with her request? Had it happened prior to her request? Or do you guys know the history of that?

• 28:58Speaker 05

  I want to say that when Secretary James asked that question, there was already another group talking about it. They actually assigned someone the task. They had another video. So when you're awarded, Sir John's awarded the Air Force Cross and he's trying to, what is he called, to give him the Medal of Honor instead. There's supposed to be new evidence to support the upgrade. John had that new evidence because the Predator feed, the CIA

• 29:36Speaker 05

  Predator feed was already known. But then there was the AC-130, is it AC-130? 130 had, you know, at 30,000 feet, had been recording it also. And so they had a team of people stitching together both videos, and that's where they used the electronic tag, if you will, to determine who is who and where they went and where they didn't go. And that was done, I think, in conjunction with the just gathering information and evidence to support John's upgrade, even though at that point in time, and I can't remember which, who

• 30:17Speaker 05

  did it, but the requirement for new information was waived, especially for Slavinsky, because there couldn't be any new evidence to upgrade his Navy Cross. So that, that particular requirement was waived.

• 30:36Speaker 04

  For, for him? Or for both of them?

• 30:38Speaker 05

  I think, I think technically for both of them, but the Air Force wanted, you know, wanted to dot every I and cross every T. So they went above and beyond and made sure they had this video that, that proved without a doubt.

• 30:52Speaker 04

  I did, go ahead, Matt, please.

• 30:55Speaker 07

  One thing that adds to that, that, you know, the, in order to get the Air Force Cross, he had to have people put him in for it, and they had to talk to people that were on the ground and get statements.

• 31:08Speaker 07

  And the way I was told, and Lori, correct me if I'm wrong, that the statements that they got from the guys on the team, the SEAL team that was there, that they didn't sign those statements, they were electronically signed, they weren't hand signed. And when they went back to those same guys, and I remind you, they wrote these whenever in 2003 or whatever, when he got the Air Force Cross, and they were, like Lori said, he was their hero, up until this Medal of Honor started. When they went back to get those same statements, not new statements, the exact same statement that they wrote in 2003, signed, physically signed, because it's a requirement for the Medal of Honor, they refused to sign.

• 31:50Speaker 04

  Wow.

• 31:51Speaker 05

  That's true.

• 31:52Jack Murphy?

  That's, yeah. I mean, those are sworn statements.

• 31:58Speaker 05

  Yep. But because they were electronically sent or whatever, so they weren't physically signed, back in 2002, end of 2002, beginning of 2003, when they went back in 2018, or well, before that, they refused to sign it.

• 32:18Speaker 04

  So.

• 32:19Speaker 07

  Which makes no sense.

• 32:20Speaker 04

  Right.

• 32:21Speaker 07

  If it was true then, it's true now.

• 32:23Speaker 04

  Right.

• 32:24Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 32:25Speaker 04

  And, you know, and some people might say that the Navy, that it was Hater Aid, that they didn't want John to get anything that Brit didn't get. But I think some people would argue that it's a bit more nefarious than that, right? That, that actually John's award disproves, because I believe Brit's story changed a few times, based on emerging information.

• 32:59Speaker 04

  And

• 33:00Speaker 05

  Yes, especially where it where it involved him checking on John. You know, it is as a an excuse or a reason why he left him or believed he was dead. He changed his story quite a bit, you know. Oh, it was because I I saw the the laser laying across his chest wasn't moving in the middle of a fire, whatever firefight. And then, oh, I rolled over him and I checked him and I and I did this and I checked him. And the predator feed shows he never went anywhere near him, so.

• 33:32Speaker 04

  Right, right. Um, yeah, we will link that predator feed in the um in the uh section also. Um, Dee, can you also link the um the petition while we're at it? So all right, so you you guys, do you know how the pred feed was released? Was that released intentionally? Did somebody get hold of it and release it? Do you guys know the backstory behind that?

• 34:06Speaker 05

  I I can't say for sure, but I think that it was leaked. And and then, once, you know, people got to see some of it, then the the Air Force kind of made did their own release of it.

• 34:21Speaker 04

  Okay. Because I think one of the more popular versions of it is the one where Dan Schilling is actually narrating the events as it happens, correct?

• 34:32Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 34:33Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, and that was after it was stitched together with the other video.

• 34:37Speaker 04

  Okay, great. So

• 34:40Speaker 07

  Can I make a request?

• 34:41Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 34:42Speaker 07

  When you're talking about linking things, can you link John Chapman's Medal of Honor Citation and Brett Slavinsky's Medal of Honor Citation? So people can read them.

• 34:51Speaker 04

  I I can. Uh, absolutely. I will find those and link those.

• 34:58Speaker 04

  Uh, do you mind searching for those and finding them? Okay, alright, great. Okay, um, so they both get medals of honor.

• 35:09Speaker 04

  And that's it, right?

• 35:14Speaker 04

  John.

• 35:15Speaker 05

  Well, even, even, even in that, you know, when he, Slavinsky got his, the Navy still, um, they were, they wanted Slavinsky to be awarded his first. It's all about the optics. Everything with them is optics and the brand. And so they had to have Slavinsky get his first. Yeah, before John did. So just optically, it's like, oh, he got his first, so he might be, he may have did, done more. I don't know. I don't know what their thought process is, but I do know that, um, it was important to them to be first.

• 35:53Speaker 04

  Right. So, so he was awarded the Medal of Honor and then after he received his, then, then John received his.

• 36:05Speaker 05

  Right, I believe he got his in May and John got his in August.

• 36:08Speaker 04

  Even though they went through at the same time?

• 36:12Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 36:13Speaker 04

  Um, okay, so, so we, we, we're starting to see a pattern here. Uh, if we haven't already seen the pattern, but the, the pattern just repeats itself. And now we have this newest, uh, wrinkle, which is why we're all talking tonight. It's why I haven't slept in almost three days because I've been so pissed. Um, can you tell us a little bit about what's going on now?

• 36:46Speaker 05

  Well, let's see, back in, I don't know, 2022.

• 36:50Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat with flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment. Get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 37:21Speaker 05

  Two, twenty-three. I ended up, long story short, we got connected with a couple of people from the museum when they were building it. And they did a Zoom meeting with my sister, my brother and my mom and me. And, you know, talked about how they wanted us to, you know, maybe look for artifacts to help out with, you know, if we wanted to donate or lend them something to show John's story, whatever. So that was, I don't know, April of twenty-three. And then February of twenty-four, I went to the museum itself with a friend of mine.

• 38:03Speaker 05

  And thank God I didn't go alone.

• 38:06Speaker 05

  Just because of what's going on now.

• 38:10Speaker 05

  So we were given, they pulled out all the stops. The museum is going to be absolutely fantastic. It's beautiful and it's one of a kind, state of the art. We were shown where John's exhibit may be.

• 38:27Speaker 05

  They brought us into a conference room and talked, showed us a little mock-up of like what his photo would be and wanted input on the wording because they just had like Air Force Airmen or something. I said, how about Air Force Combat Controller? Like, that's what he was. And so they're, oh yeah, we'll do that. And then they were asking, the person who was with me actually was from the unit. And, you know, hey, can you help us out? That's why he was there. He said, I'll help you out with, you know, whatever we can find that you might want for his exhibit.

• 39:02Speaker 05

  They were all about it.

• 39:05Speaker 05

  You know, we went on our way and I was excited and happy. And I waited for him to say, oh, it's okay to blast it out there to everybody that this was just recently, that the...

• 39:18Speaker 05

  So it's opening, the grand opening is March 25th. But on the 22nd and the 23rd is that weekend is for family and friends. And so all this time, all this different communications back and forth with them. Um, it was John's having an exhibit. And so I put it out there when he said it was good to go. That um, John was having an exhibit and you know, this 22nd is for family only, but you guys, anybody can come for the 23rd. Of March and lots of people were excited to go. And then things just started.

• 39:57Speaker 05

  Um, I don't know, just things started not making sense or uh. I asked if uh, oh, while I was in the, the meeting. I just said, I'm sure you know. The controversy between Slavinsky and, and John, and they agreed, yes, we know. Um, and at that point in time, I, I, I think I just found out that Slavinsky was on the board of the museum. And I just said, I don't want him to have anything to do with John's exhibit, no wording, no story. And they were, they assured me, no, that's not going to happen. Um.

• 40:31Speaker 05

  And then I asked them on email. Are you going to offer my book in your, in your um, gift shop? And the only reason I asked that was because I know it's contradictory to what they're going to say for Slav's exhibit. And I got the canned, you know, well, you know, we have lots of books and we have minimal space, so we don't know what we're going to do yet.

• 40:55Speaker 05

  And I don't know, just, things just started rolling. Um, I asked someone to kind of look into it for me. And that person's, that person's source from within the museum told, said that uh.

• 41:13Speaker 05

  What we were shown. When we had our tour was not um, accurate, that they misled us and.

• 41:24Speaker 05

  I was shocked. This, this person's source said it's, it's gonna, it's looking like John will be minimized and Slavinsky will be elevated. And I tried on my own to verify that with other sources and I couldn't. So I decided to just kind of sit on it and not say anything, not do anything because I couldn't verify it. Um, and then

• 41:52Speaker 05

  all this time, so I went there in February of, of 24 and they never, ever contacted my mother. They never contacted my brother, my sister, nobody. They, nobody contacted them from the, from the museum. And then finally my mom sent an email to them, to the museum itself because she didn't have any specific emails. So she sent it to the general email for the museum. And where she got a, she got an immediate answer. You know, and she basically called them out on it, said, no one has, this was just recently. She says, no one has, uh, contacted me, no one's called me, nothing. And, um,

• 42:33Speaker 05

  and that's, that's when the curator called her, like, that was only like two weeks ago. So from February of 2024, there was no time to contact my mother until she sent an email. And then once I knew that she had sent an email and that she was, and she was upset, I was like, gloves off. I don't care. You, my mom's upset. And so

• 42:58Speaker 05

  I sent them an email telling them what I had been told, said, I pray that this is not true because it's just gonna shed a, it's just gonna tarnish the museum and that's not, that's not fair to everybody who really earned their medals and deserve to have their stories told.

• 43:16Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 43:16Speaker 05

  And, um,

• 43:17Jack Murphy?

  Lori, a little bit of, um, just, I want to hear about what the curator had to tell your mother, but, um, just a little bit of context. The museum, is it a national museum? Is it run by a not-for-profit? Is it commercial? Um, who, who is the, like, the board of directors? Like, is this a governmental entity?

• 43:39Speaker 05

  Well, it's a national museum, so I would assume that it has some kind of national funding, but but I've heard otherwise, so I don't know for sure. Um, I know they have a foundation that runs it, the Medal of Honor Foundation, or Medal of Honor Museum Foundation, or whatever, that is um headed by a Navy SEAL. Um, and has a few Navy SEALs on it, um, uh, Slavinsky's wife is on it in in in some capacity and um, yeah, I I don't know who's running the show or where the money's coming from, but.

• 44:12Speaker 04

  And and also to give some context, so everybody, every American who has uh, been a recipient of a Medal of Honor will be mentioned. But what, when you talk about exhibits, th- from what I understand, and please correct me if I'm wrong, there is room for 200 full exhibits detailing everything about

• 44:38Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 44:39Speaker 04

  what is happening. And then, and there will be rotations of people being featured, but there will be 200 exhibits when it opens. And then every other recipient will have like plaques or, you know, th- there'll be, there'll be mentioned throughout the museum, but it won't be like a full display, a full exhibit. And here we are talking about the only Airman who won a Medal of Honor during the GWAT, one of two who have won one, uh, you know, uh, for, and I don't know if it's Airman or CCT, because I don't know if if uh, if any one, yeah, I I think it was just one during the Vietnam War.

• 45:19Speaker 04

  And only one of two that have ever been captured on film, because we, I recently found out that um, Alexander Bonneman was captured uh, during Tarawa uh, by by a combat cameraman, um.

• 45:33Speaker 05

  Oh, wow. Okay.

• 45:34Speaker 04

  But we're talking about a museum that is there to educate people. We are talking about. Audiovisual products, right? That, where we can actually see the heroism that it takes to be a recipient of one of these awards. Because, nobody, I mean, when I watch John's video, I personally, I question myself. I wonder if I would have had that kind of courage, if I would have had that kind of courage. I might to think I would have, but, but, you know, but there, but you watch that and it is, it, it is truly, if you wanna see what it takes to earn that medal.

• 46:17Speaker 04

  Yes, you can read these ama- amazing write-ups of very, you know, valorous deeds. You know, even like talk about Alwyn Cash, you know, running back and forth, you know, and pulling people, while on fire, pulling people out of a burning building, or burning vehicle. Like, you can read these and it's one thing, but to watch it and, and to see what it takes to be a recipient of that award, it, it, it, that is what that museum is there for, right? That is that, what that museum is there to instill in people and, and evoke those types of emotions. And for them to say, that's not an, an adequate,

• 47:01Speaker 04

  you know, that, that somehow, Slavinsky gets an exhibit, one of those 200 exhibits, and John Chapman doesn't. Now, we're not saying, we're not saying, don't give Slavinsky one. It's, we're not, it's not tit for tat, but if, if he can earn one, then certainly, John should be a shoe-in for that. John should be front and center. It's on video. What more could you ask for in a museum of honor, you know, museum, or a medal of honor museum?

• 47:35Speaker 05

  Right, and I want to make it clear, okay, I'm not, I, I respect all of the Medal of Honor recipients, or most of them, because I have heard a couple of their stories, but that's another day. I respect them, I, I believe they should, they deserve to be in there, their stories deserve to be told. And nobody does, you know, should, John doesn't deserve any more than any of these other heroes to have an exhibit. What started this whole thing for me was, for an entire year, we were, I was told, my family was told, John's going to have an exhibit. We told friends and family, John's gonna have an exhibit.

• 48:14Speaker 05

  And they knew, they knew, at some point in time, they knew that John, he wasn't going to have one. And yet, they had no intention of telling us. I had to ask pointed questions, I had to ask specifically, so John's not having one? No, he's not. So Slavinsky is having one? Yes, he is. And that was only recently.

• 48:37Speaker 04

  Right.

• 48:38Speaker 05

  And so, I, I, since I had already told everyone, hey, this is happening, I had to then go tell them, this is what's happening now, so you have to decide whether you want to spend the money to go. And of, you know, me being me, I added some colorful commentary in there too. So, but, this whole thing just started because, nothing, none of this had to happen. If they had Slavinsky have an exhibit, and John have an exhibit like they told us they would.

• 49:09Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:10Speaker 05

  None of this would be happening.

• 49:11Speaker 04

  Right.

• 49:12Jack Murphy?

  It's very weird, isn't it, like, that they, they kind of, they instigated this controversy that they need to exist.

• 49:18Speaker 04

  Right, and again, you know, if one were, you know, to look at this in the least favorable way, one could say that they don't want John front and center, they don't want his exhibit, they don't want the video presented.

• 49:33Jack Murphy?

  Someone's putting their thumb on the scale.

• 49:35Speaker 04

  Because it, it, then they'll, then you go to Slavinsky's right up, and you're like, but that's not what we saw in the video.

• 49:44Speaker 05

  Right. And every time that John, what I saw online and they've taken it down and I don't know if they put the same thing back up, or they have different dates for John and the Taker Gar and and Slavinsky for the 20th anniversary back in 22. I don't know, it was up, they took it down and now apparently it's back up. But John has a different date, John is a February 28th, when, okay, I don't know what that is all about, but I don't know, none of this had to happen.

• 50:18Speaker 04

  Right, right. And it does, it does not look good that Slavinsky is on the board of directors.

• 50:25Speaker 05

  No, and every time, oh, that's where I was going with it. John's, anytime John is mentioned in the Battle of Taker Gar press release, his press release and Slavinsky's press release, anytime John is minimized, his actions are minimized almost to the point of obsolescence, like, why was he even there? Why did he even get the medal? And then they made it sound like Slavinsky had this frickin cape on and, and he was the hero of the whole mountain, you know, the whole mission. And, which is maybe why they took it down initially. But it's so, even though, even when John is mentioned, he's minimized, his actions are

• 51:04Speaker 05

  minimized. And even on the wall of, the timeline wall of Medal of Honor, his icon, his little, it's like a little tiny thing, and then you have all these other ones that are giant, and he's just got this little teeny photo for people to notice or not notice because it's so small compared to some of the other ones. So, I mean, I really, and I could be completely wrong, but I feel like there was a lot of thought and effort put into this, how to minimize John and how to elevate Slavinsky.

• 51:36Speaker 05

  With conviction, I don't know.

• 51:39Speaker 07

  Well, I think one thing that needs to be said that that probably most people don't know, there are, there's on top of what you did on, on a mission, true or false, that's part of the getting the award, right? To get the Medal of Honor, you have to do something that's worthy of getting a Medal of Honor. But there's also other requirements, like you can't be accused of a crime. You can't be kicked out of the unit or a, or a special specialty unit. You can't, like, there's a lot of things that are part of the decision making process.

• 52:11Speaker 04

  There, there are many, there, there have been many exceptions made to that that I dare not mention in this podcast.

• 52:18Speaker 07

  I'll name one, Britt Slabinski. Britt Slabinski was PNG'd from SEAL Team Six.

• 52:22Speaker 04

  Oof.

• 52:22Speaker 07

  He was kicked out of command. He's on the rock of shame. He was accused of war crimes. All those things are disqualifiers. He should never have even been eligible for a Medal of Honor, let alone receive one for doing, not doing the thing that he supposedly received it for. So, the, the lie is, is, is multi-layered. It's not just Britt got one because they tied it to John's and that's just the way that, there's a lot of moving parts that led to the cover-up that allowed for John, that allowed for Brad, uh, Britt Slabinski to get his Medal of Honor.

• 52:55Speaker 04

  Right.

• 52:55Speaker 07

  So, it's, it's, it's a layered approach that, that they've perfected over time over many, many different, um, cover-ups.

• 53:06Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah. Um, you know, to tie this back to Jack, his writing partner, the, uh, you, you guys have your Substack, Highside. Um, in May of 2018, actually wrote a story in Newsweek, uh, and it was tied, uh, Sean Naylor, and it was entitled, uh, "The Navy SEALs Allegedly Left Behind a Man in Afghanistan. Did They Also Try to Block His Medal of Honor?" And it goes into a lot of this quite a bit in detail. Um, so, you know, definitely check that out. I linked it in chat. But this is just, and again, if they, they could have avoided all this by just giving John equal due, or they might have even been able to

• 53:50Speaker 04

  avoid it if neither John nor Slab had it. But the way it looks now...

• 53:59Speaker 04

  It looks nefarious. Whether it is or not, it looks nefarious. It looks like they're playing games and they're and the cover up is still in effect.

• 54:14Jack Murphy?

  You're muted, Matt.

• 54:15Speaker 04

  You're muted, Matt.

• 54:18Speaker 07

  Okay, thank you. I try to mute myself because I have been dealing with a cold and I've been clearing my throat a lot, so.

• 54:26Speaker 07

  The

• 54:29Speaker 07

  to give context to why I'm passionate about this and how, you know, 2012, 10 years after Battle Attacker Guard, Joe Price is found dead in his bunk and for 12 years, they've been saying he committed suicide. And I now have the proof that he was murdered in his bunk as the Commander SEAL Team Four in Afghanistan, and there isn't a single person prior to me getting involved that even knew about it.

• 54:51Speaker 04

  Right.

• 54:51Speaker 07

  Imagine how you can keep one of, you know, 10 commanders who dies in theater at the time, the highest ranking person to ever die in theater, and no one knew about it.

• 55:06Speaker 07

  How much of a cover up is there when you can hide that?

• 55:09Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:10Speaker 07

  For this long?

• 55:11Jack Murphy?

  Do you have, do you have any inkling of a motive, Matt?

• 55:15Speaker 07

  Oh, yeah. And it's always the same thing. Money. You know, it's always missing money, right?

• 55:21Speaker 05

  Oh, and the brand.

• 55:23Speaker 07

  And, well, yeah, the brand and, you know, when, when and not to go off tangent into Job, but Job was John Chapman, right? They were the same persons. They were the white knight. They were the good guy. They were the ones that would help anybody. They were

• 55:40Speaker 07

  Job was more of a, probably more of an anal retentive rule follower, but he was, and that's why he was the commander, because he had order and discipline and

• 55:49Jack Murphy?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 55:50Speaker 07

  Managed things like that. And, you know, he wasn't

• 55:56Speaker 07

  He wasn't the guy to let the guys just do whatever they want. He wanted to have some military bearing and, you know, we're professionals. And I think there was some people that that rubbed the wrong way. There was some ASOP money that went missing. There's, you know, there was a couple deaths of SEALs. One was an ambush as a result of some crap that SEAL Team Two did, which is who SEAL Team Four relieved. And one of his guys got murdered in an ambush because of a SEAL Team Two guys killed an Afghani national and there was some retribution called and they took it. And, you know, so there was a lot of things happening at that time and there

• 56:40Speaker 07

  was some anger involved. And I don't want to get into too much details of what happened and why, but yes, I mean, it's always money.

• 56:48Speaker 04

  But Matt, you know, since you bring it up, I mean, I would appreciate it because you, you know, for a long time, people were saying, oh, it's just a conspiracy. It's just conspiracy. But you said like new evidence and you've been hot on it and you've, you know, brought in forensics experts and other crime scene investigators and things like that. Can you tell us sort of some of the things that helped you guys break it from that, from that conspiracy into saying, now something, something went down?

• 57:18Speaker 07

  Yeah, I'd be happy to. So I'll preface it with, I was, I hit a wall. 2022, I hit a wall. I just couldn't break through and get any more information. And I'll be honest with you, I was exhausted. In January 2024, I had a chance to interview Rob O'Neill and I had been given some information from some people in that raid that contradicted what Rob was saying happened. And so I was the only person ever in a face-to-face interview, mind you, on Zoom, to challenge him on his narrative. And I got him to get a little frazzled and I realized that

• 57:57Speaker 07

  Me doing that, that Joe of attention, because during that episode, I talked about Joe. And I'm like, all right, so what if I, and it, because of that, interview went viral. And so I started getting on other podcasts and I'm like, okay, maybe if I can follow the same kind of blueprint, you know, leak some stuff that I know, not, not too controversial, but enough, you know, there's some stuff that was already publicly known. I just sort of accentuated it about Marx Luttrell, about Jaco Willink, about Sean Ryan. And in each one of these podcasts, I would say something about one of them that was gonna get the people pissed off and get people to watch. And they used them as reels and it brought people to the podcast and they watched and heard about Joe.

• 58:42Speaker 07

  So all of those things got millions of views and got Eric Demming, who you guys had on, to come out as a whistleblower.

• 58:51Speaker 07

  And then he got the Marines to come out and be whistleblowers. And there was, there's this cyclical, I mean, this continuation of one interview that created all these other waves that followed. So from that, lots of people were watching podcasts that I was mentioning Joe on with a 10 second reel of me talking about somebody else. And it was a plan that I used and it worked well and it was a kind of a last ditch. I'm done if I can't get this thing across the finish line. So we ended up getting a documentary film company to see one of my podcasts. And we now have a documentary film in, in development and we have an Academy Award nominated director and producer.

• 59:34Speaker 07

  And it's, it's gonna be fantastic. But from that, they also were able, on my end as well, we were able to get forensic people to reach out and say, hey, you know, what you're describing does not sound like suicide. Do you mind sending me his, his book? And so the book is like 400 pages of, of the crime scene book, for lack of a better word. And they all said exactly the same thing. He was murdered and the reasons why were all the same. Now I'm a cop and I've been on thousands of, of scenes in 30 years.

• 1:00:07Speaker 07

  I know what doesn't look right, but I may not know exactly why it doesn't look right. And I knew. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. You know, from everything that I knew as an investigator, Job did not kill himself, but I couldn't point out all the forensic stuff that proved it.

• 1:00:50Speaker 07

  Like, you go in any court of law, and these guys are experts, and they will prove that Job was murdered. And that's the part now that I'm at where I don't have to be the guy championing, trying to convince people that Job didn't commit suicide, and that all they want to say is I wasn't there, and that he was depressed. The two things that I get back from anybody, especially guys on the team that are angry with me, is that I wasn't there and that he was depressed. I'm like, well, I know a lot of depressed people that are still alive. And so that is not a piece of evidence. That's just information. I said, but I now have forensic evidence, and I don't really care what anybody says anymore. I don't have to prove it.

• 1:01:32Speaker 04

  And can you sort of elucidate, like, what some of those pieces of forensic evidence were that helped you guys, you know, make your determination?

• 1:01:43Speaker 07

  Well, some of it I can't say because it's obviously big one to use it for the documentary.

• 1:01:47Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:01:48Speaker 07

  But, you know, there was theme manipulation of the body.

• 1:01:54Speaker 04

  Blood splatter.

• 1:01:56Speaker 07

  Yeah, like, things that just didn't, couldn't have happened where he was found.

• 1:02:01Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:02:02Speaker 07

  And where he was, you know, now I will say, and someone had... And asked me this about the gun, you know, there were things that I didn't have. And it wasn't until I, things became very popular that the Navy decided to start to answer my FOIA's. And I got some of that information back, like the GSR gunshot residue test. The ballistics on the firearm, the bullet in the casing, the blood, DNA evidence. All that stuff finally came back late in 24. And the best part is not a bit changed the outcome.

• 1:02:35Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:02:35Speaker 07

  If anything, it proved the ineptitude and the cover up was even more real. And that, you know, like, if you're GSR testing, you would GSR test things like somebody's hand, right? To find out if there was a, fired a gun.

• 1:02:50Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:02:50Speaker 07

  They GSR tested the wood board underneath his mattress.

• 1:02:57Speaker 07

  They didn't test it.

• 1:02:58Speaker 04

  They didn't test it.

• 1:03:00Speaker 07

  They, NCIS, yeah. The DNA didn't show any, they tested the DNA on the pillow and on the side of his bed.

• 1:03:16Speaker 07

  Like things that you would like, why would you, how's that even relatively something that could be contaminated with someone else's blood or other? Other type of evidence, um, gun and the bullet was tested and, and I had no doubt that if there was a bullet, a casing and a gun, that they were probably going to be coming from the same place. But what they didn't test for, they didn't test for any type of brain matter, any type of bone matter, any type of hair matter, any type of anything. They just proved that the gun fired that bullet that fired, which expelled that casing. I could go outside right now, shoot a gun in my front yard, take that bullet, put it in my pocket and the casing in my pocket. And then take that gun, bullet and casing and put it anywhere.

• 1:03:56Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:03:58Speaker 07

  And it still doesn't mean that wherever I put it, anything happened there.

• 1:04:00Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:04:02Speaker 07

  You know what I'm saying? So there's, there's just nothing that links the gun to Job, that other than it was his gun.

• 1:04:07Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:04:08Speaker 07

  There's nothing to show that it was fired by him. There's nothing that shows it was fired through his head, which is what happened. He was shot in the head. There was, you know, a severe, I mean, the wound on his head is clearly not, um, wasn't caused by the gun that he was holding. Um, there's just some, I mean, it's just, it's, it's endless and the top of office, you know, this team washed his entire body, removed the bags that the NCIS guy put on, washed his hands, um, dressed him in, in his, his, uh, fatigues, um, all against orders of the NCIS. Nobody was held accountable for minimal, throwing a crime scene. Um, and Job's body was left in his bump,

• 1:04:52Speaker 07

  unsupervised. After he was found dead and, and yes, I had agent arrived and said, yes, he's dead. They locked his door, gave the key to the last person that saw him alive and the first person to find him dead and said, don't go in the room and don't let anybody else go in the room. And they came back eight and a half hours later. Uh, so anything could have been put in or taken out of that room and nobody would know. Right. And you can chalk it up to ineptitude. You can chalk it up to many different things, but it doesn't change the fact that the only piece of evidence that they had that Job killed himself was that he was dead.

• 1:05:25Speaker 07

  Jesus Christ. There's not, and there's not another piece of actual evidence that exists.

• 1:05:32Speaker 07

  And the fact that he was sad or depressed or struggling with a lot of things happening when you're the commander of a SEAL team does not indicate suicide. Right.

• 1:05:45Speaker 05

  And there's a link between John and Job.

• 1:05:49Speaker 07

  Yes. Um, you know, Tim Simansky, it was Job's boss, um, was in country a week before Job was dead. Um, a loud conversation was overheard between the two. Um, you know, Tim goes back, sees Job's wife. She asked him, cause Nick Check was a SEAL that died earlier that month, um, not with Job. Um, and they were all at this funeral back in, in, uh, Virginia and Web's wife asked, how's my husband doing? She said, it's man, he's like, he's crushing it. Doing a great job. And then, you know, three days before Christmas, he's dead. No,

• 1:06:29Speaker 07

  no, no. And, and, and mind you, he was in his bump asleep in the same manner, supposedly, in the same manner which he slept all the time. And, you know, I've been on a lot of suicide scenes and I've never seen anybody kill themselves in their sleep. Right.

• 1:06:47Speaker 07

  And the angle which his arm had to be for the bullet to travel and possible photos were destroyed, no, no extra copies available, um, you name it.

• 1:06:57Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:06:57Speaker 07

  Everything that you could would ever want to prove now what they did do and I'm going to say his guys killed him or the only, um, nobody heard, oh, nobody heard the bullet. Nobody heard the gunshot in one of the green miles. And I'm sure you guys have been in those and they're concrete and metal echo chambers, you know, they, they say guys are, you know, having phone sex with their wives and everybody can hear it. You know, it's like there's, there's no privacy.

• 1:07:24Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:07:24Speaker 07

  Um, and, um, the fact that nobody, you know, and these are trained warriors. They know what a gunshot is. You know, they're not going to sleep through a gunshot. Everybody's at, you know, orange and almost red at all times.

• 1:07:38Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:07:39Speaker 07

  So you're not, you're not dead asleep and that's not getting up if a nine millimeter round goes cranking off in a green mile. Um, but all that, and that's, that's what I've been fighting with. That's my ammunition I've been using since I started this. But now I have independent who don't know each other. None of them know each other exists. And that's the best part is that they're all coming to the same conclusion without any other one knowing the others even doing it.

• 1:08:02Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:08:03Speaker 07

  So I now that experts that are saying he was murdered.

• 1:08:05Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:06Speaker 07

  Yeah. So I don't, and, and, and the connection of the cover up, you know, you think about how a cover up is executed, you know, Johns, I called, uh, Roberts Ridge, the original sin. That's where they realized that we have an ability to keep narratives changed, um, to alter, um, reality and then never acknowledge any of it.

• 1:08:30Jack Murphy?

  The best place to cover up a murder is in a war zone.

• 1:08:35Speaker 07

  Yeah. It's, it's the, how do you, how do you get away with murder? Sometimes figuratively and sometimes literally.

• 1:08:42Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:08:43Speaker 07

  Um, how do you, and then how do you then turn what happened, whether it was a monumental failure like, um, Lone Survivor with Marx Luttrell, turn a monumental failure into a blockbuster movie and a blockbuster book. We now know Marx Luttrell said so to Rob O'Neill that he didn't write the book. He was given the book. He was given a handler. He was given, uh, PR work people. He was given, uh, media coaching. He was sent on a book tour and he was told this is now your official duty as a United States Navy employee.

• 1:09:15Speaker 07

  And there's enough empirical evidence out now that things that are outlined in that movie and that book are completely as are as fictitious as Chris Slavinsky's Medal of Honor.

• 1:09:26Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:09:27Speaker 07

  And, and if you think how, and you talk about, and I'm glad it's sort of, I don't know always which direction I'm going when I talk, but the fact that we got here is when you're talking about the, the video and how that it does something to you, right? You see John's heroism and it does something inside of you. It's the same thing the Navy used. They created Lone Survivor and a lone adult. I mean, uh, what's the one with Chris Kyle?

• 1:09:53Speaker 05

  American Sniper.

• 1:09:54Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:09:55Speaker 07

  Right. That they're, they're instilling that, that feeling, except John's was real and actual footage, theirs is Hollywood.

• 1:10:03Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:10:04Speaker 07

  And they, they know that they can use that to their advantage to get, I mean, recruiting obviously is with a big thing.

• 1:10:10Speaker 04

  Budgets.

• 1:10:11Speaker 07

  But also to build the brand.

• 1:10:13Speaker 04

  And when we're talking about this, we're talking more than just naval special warfare because really naval special warfare, the SEALs are a huge recruiting component to the Navy. Like the Navy, you know, both with, uh, Top Gun and then also with anything to do with SEALs, the, the Navy, you know, helps these movies immensely because they are major recruiting drives for, for the Navy.

• 1:10:45Speaker 07

  And I think that there was a concerted effort and Lori, you can probably confirm this, that Tim Samansky and people in his, um, sphere wanted the Navy SEALs to become the preeminent counterterrorism insurgency destroyer unit, specialty unit in the military. They didn't want Delta Force. They didn't want special forces. They didn't want Green Beret, I mean, uh, Rangers going in and doing the work. They wanted to get those missions. And that's why, you know, um, Roberts Ridge happened. That's why, um, Mark's, the Toronto Lone Survivor happened. They, they, they took control of, of JSOC essentially and made sure that they were the first choice for these missions. And, and that was all part

• 1:11:30Speaker 07

  of also building the brand to make sure that, you know, we can, we can, and, and they realized they could dictate any narrative they wanted as a result, regardless of outcome. And unfortunately, whoever at JSOC continued to let it happen, did. I mean, it got to the point where, I mean, Timson must be retired as the number two at JSOC.

• 1:11:49Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:11:51Speaker 07

  So the influence is strong.

• 1:11:53Speaker 04

  And rolling this all back to John's story and how they've stepped on it repeatedly. And even when it comes to this museum, that it's almost as if they are still trying to control the narrative.

• 1:12:10Speaker 04

  That.

• 1:12:10Speaker 05

  That's what it seems like.

• 1:12:12Speaker 04

  The heroism that was displayed that day.

• 1:12:16Speaker 04

  Yeah, John, you know, yeah, there is some heroism there too, but like, look, look at Slab. That's the, that's the heroism that happened that day. So, um, so.

• 1:12:28Speaker 07

  I think the.

• 1:12:29Speaker 04

  Go ahead.

• 1:12:30Speaker 07

  Sorry about that.

• 1:12:30Speaker 04

  No, please, Matt.

• 1:12:32Speaker 07

  Again, I apologize. Um, the, the realities are, is that, you know,

• 1:12:42Speaker 07

  just as a casual observer, everybody should know that they, what they see, if I'm just a moviegoer or I'm watching Netflix or whatever, I know what I'm watching. I know what's available. I know what, what's in the guide, right? There are no Green Beret Special Forces movies out that people are going, yep, those were lies. There are no, uh, Army Ranger movies or Air Force or Coast Guard or Space Force movies out there. The only thing that's out there is what you were given to see, and that's the Navy. Pushing movies, mostly with Navy SEALs,

• 1:13:19Speaker 07

  in order to build recruitment for, I'm sure it, there is also some benefit to the other branches through recruiting. And I'm not necessarily against that.

• 1:13:30Speaker 07

  If it's true. You know, that, that's the problem. If, if it's true, then, then knock your socks off. Let's, let's get these warriors out there and showcase what they did and, and let them make as much money as they want. The problem is it's not true. I mean, there's, you now have, you know, and I know it's not part of this conversation, but you have Tim Kennedy.

• 1:13:49Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:13:49Speaker 07

  You know, so there's, and they're all, if you just look at who hangs with who, right? You are who you associate with. And, and, and at the end of the day, they're all insulated.

• 1:14:02Speaker 07

  You know, we're not, we don't have, I'm not going to inaugural balls.

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:14:07Speaker 07

  You know, I'm not sitting fourth row behind the president. You know what I'm saying? There's a lot of, was that both inauguration things today? Um, invited.

• 1:14:19Speaker 04

  So is Tim.

• 1:14:20Speaker 07

  That makes me nauseous.

• 1:14:21Speaker 04

  Was he? He was at one of the, that's, yeah, yeah.

• 1:14:25Speaker 05

  Well, I read, I read that that's the right or the, one of the perks for any Medal of Honor recipient. They can, if they choose to go, so obviously he chose to go.

• 1:14:34Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:14:35Speaker 05

  He was at John's Medal of Honor ceremony. I wanted to throw up, but

• 1:14:43Speaker 05

  wasn't my call.

• 1:14:44Speaker 04

  Yeah. So what, what, Lori, for you, what is?

• 1:14:53Speaker 04

  What is the ideal outcome for you at this point?

• 1:14:59Speaker 05

  I don't know. I mean, can there be one? I, you know, this, this is, this whole thing is way bigger than just John having an exhibit or not.

• 1:15:08Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:15:09Speaker 05

  That, that's just like almost a side effect of, of the, the SEALs, this particular group of SEALs and their, their weird desire to just sideline John and, and elevate this guy who was the weak leader at best. And, you know, I don't know, have a fictional fiction writer write his, his citation or take from John's actions and, and, and I, I mean, I'm curious to see what this exhibit of his is, you know, because it's, it's not going to be truthful. So I don't know what the outcome is. I, I love the fact that there, that you guys have the um, petition and how many people have signed it. Um.

• 1:15:53Speaker 05

  And almost even if so, if John has an exhibit now, that means somebody else has to be not have an exhibit. Um, who was going to have one, whose family was told that they're gonna have one. And and how I that's not fair to that family either. So I don't know what the outcome is. And you know, and it's almost like, okay, you got your way. Now he has an exhibit, big deal. It, you know, I don't want that. I don't want this whole thing to take away from anything that they might have for John. Um, and again, like I said, if it it to to make room for John, they have to make, take something away. And you know, and if that's the case, if one person has to be eliminated, then you know who I think it should be.

• 1:16:33Speaker 04

  Sure.

• 1:16:34Speaker 05

  Um, because, well, no one else deserves to to to, you know, their whole, their family has been told. He's gonna have an exhibit.

• 1:16:42Speaker 04

  The other thing that The other thing that gets me is that if there are living members, uh, living service members recipients. You know, they can go do their speeches. They they they are still here to tell their story. Right? And and and not saying that the a- any living recipients do not deserve the recognition they get because, you know. I'm sure that ninety-nine percent of them absolutely one hundred percent do. Um, but they can still tell their story. You know, the the people who aren't with us anymore, they're the ones who we who should be the focus, in my opinion.

• 1:17:26Speaker 04

  For me, if I had an award and I were on a board. I would happily gladly give up my spot in an exhibit to ensure that somebody who wasn't still around to tell their story.

• 1:17:44Speaker 04

  That that they were presented. That

• 1:17:48Speaker 05

  Right, and the the irony is, here's the irony, if they had said that they're

• 1:17:56Speaker 05

  Their playbook is idiotic. Like if they had just done that, reversed it. He says, "I'm on the board. It's not right for me. Optically, it's not right for me." Whatever the case is, we really should honor John.

• 1:18:13Speaker 05

  That would have worked in their favor.

• 1:18:15Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:18:15Speaker 05

  You know what I'm saying? And the fact that they didn't, it's just more of their idiotic playbook. I don't know.

• 1:18:24Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah.

• 1:18:26Speaker 07

  It's a lot like, they're like politicians. They can flip-flop ad nauseam and they don't care if you call them a flip-flopper. It's whatever gets them the power seat or elevates them in any way, that's the side they're gonna take. And that's kind of the way the Seal brand is, is they don't care. They don't care if I'm out there stumping or John Chapman's sister is writing books. They don't care about any of that because they know they're insulated. This goes way deeper than anything anybody could even imagine.

• 1:18:57Speaker 05

  Yep. They don't care. They wouldn't have cared if my mother, you know, that my mom is gonna, you know, she's not the best of health, get there, be all excited to see her son.

• 1:19:06Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:19:06Speaker 05

  Only to find out that it wa-- I mean, thank God we knew ahead of time.

• 1:19:10Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:19:10Speaker 05

  And she's still interested in going, but, I mean, they were willing to let this little old lady who's, you know...

• 1:19:17Speaker 00

  Cash Flow Crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds, up to $200,000, right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:19:48Speaker 05

  Go there and find out when she's there, there's nothing but this little video and a photo that's gonna flip through 3,500 people.

• 1:19:59Speaker 05

  They were willing to do that.

• 1:20:00Speaker 04

  Right, right.

• 1:20:01Speaker 05

  And that's what really got me was you were willing to hurt our family again because for your guy. It's wrong.

• 1:20:11Speaker 04

  Matt, you know, you mentioned, we talked a little bit about the SEAL movies and, and you know, the SEAL representation in Hollywood. There was, I know that Alone at Dawn had been optioned, right? Uh, and that, weren't there talks about Jake Gyllenhaal, uh, playing John?

• 1:20:30Speaker 04

  And, and is that still, because there's been rumors that, that Naval Special Warfare may be behind the scenes trying to inhibit that effort too. Have you heard anything about that or is that just like, is that just rumble at this point?

• 1:20:48Speaker 07

  I've heard from pretty good sources that there is a strong push, very similar to what they were doing. When the Medal of Honor drama started, that they don't want that movie to come out. And, and the, the powers that be, Pentagon, um, there's, there's just, there's a lot of power positions that are involved in this that are, are fighting and, and quite frankly, the Air Force is not fighting hard enough. Right? There's not enough, there's not enough, um, let's draw a line in the sand and let's see who crosses it, right? There's no shovel to faces.

• 1:21:22Jack Murphy?

  The Air Force cares about their fighters.

• 1:21:24Speaker 04

  Their pilots.

• 1:21:24Jack Murphy?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:25Speaker 04

  Yeah, the Air Force is about the, is about the jockeys and not actually.

• 1:21:28Jack Murphy?

  This, this whole thing is like very interesting because it's so much of it is about like the fabric of American culture and the stories we tell ourselves and what stories we're going to tell and which we're not.

• 1:21:42Speaker 07

  Yeah. I mean, I'm a hundred percent that they're, you know, the, the victor always has the oils, right? The, the one, you know, history is written by the winners and, and the ones that have usually the loudest wheel gets the most grease. And that's kind of the Navy, right? That's the Navy SEALs. They're the loudest wheel and they're getting the most grease. They get the most attention, they get the most publicity, get the most fame, they get the most fortune. You get the most everything, but they also have the most failures. And, and that's the biggest thing for me is that how do I, as part of my mission of solving Job's case.

• 1:22:17Speaker 07

  I used the tactic of stealing light from a Jaco or a Sean Ryan or a Rob O'Neil because I Joe had none. So I stole some of their shine and put it on Joe. And that's kind of what when I Lori called me and told me what they did to John and what they were doing for slabs. I was like, fuck this. Um, pardon my French. Um, and I, I sort of mobilized everything that I knew how to do to, to create people talking, whether it's getting podcasts to do shows or doing a show or whatever. And, and it's time to take some of the light off of Ritz-Lubinsky publicly

• 1:22:55Speaker 07

  and put it on John. And, and, and also shine a light on the dark secrets that are being hidden

• 1:23:03Speaker 04

  by Navy SEALs. Yeah. Yep. Um, so.

• 1:23:07Speaker 07

  I got, I got, my phone is full of texts from Navy SEALs that are in my, my forthwith, people that are supportive of what we're doing, saying, I can't believe this guy is representing us.

• 1:23:18Speaker 04

  Right. And, and that's the thing. And, you know, Matthew Cole mentioned that also, you know, other people have, have mentioned this, that the, the SEAL community is not rotten. It's not, there, there are some, there are a lot of very solid dudes in that community. Um, you know, very brave warriors, you know, tactically, technically proficient. It, it's, it's that

• 1:23:44Speaker 04

  they, they, they keep getting represented by, you know, a handful of, of these people who seem to have an outsized amount of influence that are creating these issues.

• 1:24:02Speaker 07

  And a culture's been created where they, they, they circle the wagons tighter than any unit I've ever seen.

• 1:24:08Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 1:24:09Speaker 07

  Like as a collective, they are, man, it is, it is, it is incestuous.

• 1:24:16Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:16Speaker 07

  Like it's, it's like a, it's like a domestic violence.

• 1:24:19Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:19Speaker 07

  Victim who doesn't want her husband to get arrested, but wants the beatings to stop.

• 1:24:25Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:25Speaker 07

  Like what?

• 1:24:26Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:24:26Speaker 07

  How, it's, it drives me nuts. And I tell a lot of the guys that are, that talk to me, I'm like, why won't you go public? We need courageous warriors who go undone, undone being part of a, an organization that does this kind of shit. And they, they. Some of them have, you know, some, not, nothing crazy, but enough to where they're worried about getting jammed up.

• 1:24:48Jack Murphy?

  Right.

• 1:24:49Speaker 07

  Some of them are still active, some are worried about things coming back out of their closet to come get them, right? So there's, there's all of that.

• 1:24:55Jack Murphy?

  It's a conspiracy of silence. Yeah, and it becomes, it becomes a mafia at a certain point where they all have dirt on each other.

• 1:25:03Speaker 05

  Yes.

• 1:25:04Speaker 07

  And that's exactly what it is.

• 1:25:05Jack Murphy?

  Yeah. And, and it's unfortunate, like, I, I, I happen to really like guys like Andy Stumpf, like, I think that they're out there, I think that they try to call the balls and strikes how they see them. You know, I, I think, I think there are a lot of guys out there that are trying to do the right thing, but then they get shunned by the community, and nobody wants to be shunned by your community. Nobody wants that.

• 1:25:25Speaker 05

  Exactly, and that's what, go ahead.

• 1:25:28Speaker 07

  No, no, good lord.

• 1:25:28Speaker 05

  Well, I was gonna say, you know, it, it's not just that, you, you know, you're saying you have these Navy SEALs who are past and present, whatever, who are talking to you and saying, you know, this is my brotherhood and I don't like what's going on, but I don't wanna, and there are, it's not just these, these, these good SEALs who have stories and know things. It's, it's, it is the combat controllers, it is the pararescue, it is the Rangers, it is Delta. All these other people know what's going on too. All these other people don't wanna deploy with the SEALs because they know they're either gonna get injured or killed, or something's gonna happen.

• 1:26:02Jack Murphy?

  Left behind.

• 1:26:03Speaker 05

  And, you know, so it can't just be the SEALs who come forward, although that would be nice, because they're from within. But, I mean, it has to be a collective of, enough is enough here. You know, they're taking advantage of the, you know, the combat controllers and pararescue, like Matt had said.

• 1:26:21Speaker 05

  They've been involved, or I think one of you guys said, they're, in, in most of the things that have happened, one of them or both of them are involved in it, but you don't know about it. The public doesn't know. The SEALs go, well, that was us, or whatever, and because they're the true silent professionals, so the SEALs are taking advantage of that mindset. We're the silent professionals, we're not gonna come out and say, well, that was me, um, and so they take it. And it's just, it has to be a collective. It's, it's, like I said, this is bigger than just John having an exhibit, it's, it's, it's everything we're talking about and more.

• 1:26:54Jack Murphy?

  I feel like I have to point out that it's not widely publicized, but there have been a number of times where dev group have left Rangers behind on objectives. People don't really know about that, but that has happened numerous times during the War on Terror.

• 1:27:10Speaker 07

  And I think there is, and I am a staunch libertarian. I am, I'm against most government stuff. And having worked for basically state and local and federal government for 35 years, I think I have a perspective that lends for that to be true. And I didn't want no more of it. And I see the value of, of limiting it. But you send, you know, the industrial, military industrial complex sends our young men and women to war for 20 years. And we train them to be killers and we rotate them in and out and expect them to somehow assimilate back into life. And then, oh, by the way, go back and become this killer again.

• 1:27:50Speaker 07

  And when you take the guardrails off of these guys and you say, okay, we're not going to have as much oversight, we're not going to have as much critiquing on, on tactics and techniques and, and all that. That's when things like stealing money, killing your commander, leaving a guy to die, those things become okay.

• 1:28:14Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:15Speaker 07

  And that's not, that's not, that's not a place we as a country need to be. We need to go back to having guardrails. We need to go back to having a set, you know, set of rules and procedures that are followed. And people, leaders, true leaders, who have the ability to lead in battle and hold their men accountable and have men who go, I want to, I want to follow that leader because he is that strong of the, has convictions and, and understands the, the mission and objective. And they do that. And I think somewhere over the course of 20 years, that, that fell apart.

• 1:28:45Speaker 04

  Right.

• 1:28:46Speaker 07

  And they're expecting it to just be okay now.

• 1:28:48Speaker 04

  Right. Yeah. Yeah, it's, it's, it's a tough situation. I mean, first off, I want to ask everybody, if you are watching this, you know, we have four and 22 people watching right now. D linked the petition. Please, please go to the petition, sign it, share it. You know, obviously, a petition is just a petition, a petition is just a petition and we can't force, you know, the National Medal of Honor Museum to do anything. But, you know, hopefully we're, we can put pressure on them. We can bring awareness to this.

• 1:29:29Speaker 04

  But we would ask that you, you know, that you go and sign that now or when you do listen to this. Definitely, please read Alone at Dawn. It's, it's an amazing, amazing story.

• 1:29:44Speaker 04

  And check out Matt's other work. Matt, you're, you're pretty, you're pretty out there. People can find you. You know, you're on Instagram, you're on YouTube. Where else can people find you, Matt?

• 1:29:56Speaker 07

  That's pretty much it. At Matt Cubbler, M A T T C U B B L E R for both Instagram. And I'm on Twitter too, but I don't really know how to use that. I'm just starting to figure it out, but I do, we have a website for the documentary film for anybody who has information about Joe or wants to be a confidential source or whatever. It's who killed Joe Price dot com. So I want to make sure everybody went there. And, and my goal for the Medal of Honor Museum is to make sure that if no changes are made and things go forward as planned,

• 1:30:34Speaker 07

  that there is a gigantic spotlight placed on it on the 22nd and 23rd. And I'm going to be coming down with the film crew to make sure that I go and speak to every single member of that board on camera, including Brett Slavinsky, and ask them why they chose to go the route they did.

• 1:30:53Speaker 04

  To be honest with you, if... I was just gonna say, if, if, if I'm not working on those days, because I have a busy work schedule coming up, if I'm not working, I'm, I will fly down there and just do a sit-in outside the museum. I, I mean, you know, I don't want to disrespect what the museum is for and, and the, you know, the 3,000 plus service members who have earned the Medal of Honor. But also, this is something, I'm not a protester. I've never been to a protest in my life, but I would be willing to do a sit-in because this is, this is, it's a vital issue to me. If, if we cannot honor somebody like John Chapman,

• 1:31:33Speaker 04

  and, and if we allow these politics to play out in our military community, like, the veterans have to be the guardians of, you know, of...

• 1:31:45Speaker 04

  The integrity of the military. Civilians, you know, they can, you know, they can do their, they can do their reporting. They can do everything like that. But, but we're the people who can say, okay, great. You went to war. Yeah, I did too. So, so you know, the whole, you don't know you weren't there. Okay, but we do know we were there.

• 1:32:07Speaker 04

  I've, I feel it's incumbent on us to, to do things like that. Um, so I will definitely be there if, if I am not working on those days. Um, and, you know, Lori, we, we love you. We appreciate you, you know, you, your family has, has given more than 99% of the families in the United States ever will. Your brother is, you know, a, a true hero. There's, like I said, I, I cannot watch that video and, and not get emotional. And, and again, it's one of those things where when I watch it, I'm like, would, would I have that same fortitude?

• 1:32:52Speaker 04

  I, I would hope so, you know, but, but just.

• 1:32:57Speaker 05

  You don't know.

• 1:32:58Speaker 04

  You, you, you never know.

• 1:33:02Speaker 04

  You know, when, when, when he started his IMT, uh, and started engaging, it's like, it, it, that's how Rangers are, are trained to, I am like, he was moving with a purpose and, and his purpose was to save the lives of the other people on that mountain. And he did.

• 1:33:20Speaker 05

  When he, right. And before he deployed, he saw my sister and, um, one of, I don't know if it was one of the last things he said to her, but while he was with her, he told her, I will do anything in my power to protect my team.

• 1:33:34Speaker 04

  Yes.

• 1:33:35Speaker 05

  He was, before he even left, that was his mindset. And that's what he did. They are all, all of them are living today, um, because of what he did on March 4th, 2002.

• 1:33:48Speaker 04

  Um, and we, uh, we have Nate in chat. Uh, Nate, Nate said, uh, fuck slab, justice for chap.

• 1:33:59Speaker 04

  Yeah, we, we love Nate. Uh, anybody who's not checking out Nate's channel, make sure you check it out. Valhalla VFT. He, he's, he's a, he's a top tier human being and we love him.

• 1:34:13Speaker 04

  Is there anything else that we haven't covered tonight that you'd like, you guys would like to touch upon or talk about?

• 1:34:23Speaker 04

  Okay.

• 1:34:26Speaker 04

  Lori, you know, because I know that Dan doesn't really want to be involved in a lot of the politics, but we would love to maybe have you guys back together sometime to just talk about Alone at Dawn. And go through that. It's incredibly well-written book. And again, it's not just about the events on Robert's Ridge. It's, you know, it's about CCT and I'm sorry.

• 1:34:50Speaker 05

  Right, the history.

• 1:34:51Speaker 04

  Yeah. John, did I say Nate? Oh, John. Oh, yeah. But yeah, it's not just about John. Yeah, I've been saying Nate.

• 1:34:58Speaker 07

  No, no.

• 1:34:58Speaker 04

  Okay. Yeah, but it's about John and CCT and, you know, and everything else.

• 1:35:04Speaker 05

  Yeah, I think I would imagine as long as, you know, you just keep the politics out of it because, you know, Dan's on his his second journey in his life of just being kind of zen and he's not interested in that. So, but I imagine he would want to talk about the book and.

• 1:35:20Speaker 04

  I get it. I get it. And we can, we can talk about the book without, you know, all of the other, you know, the museum and all the other things. So.

• 1:35:29Speaker 05

  Right, right.

• 1:35:31Speaker 04

  So, yeah, we love you guys. Thank you so much for coming on and sharing this with us. It's something that's very important to us. And I hope it is important to a lot of people.

• 1:35:45Speaker 04

  Yeah. So if there's anything else. Say again?

• 1:35:48Speaker 07

  I just, I want to say that Lori, Lori found out the power of a social media post.

• 1:35:56Speaker 05

  Yeah, for sure.

• 1:35:57Speaker 07

  This is what happened when you, you let it fly on Facebook and then this is, this is what comes from it.

• 1:36:03Speaker 04

  I'm, you know, I'm glad you did Lori, like we, we're coming in on this on sort of the tail end, you know, Nate has already talked about it on his channel, other people have talked about, Matt's been talking about it. We're sort of like Johnny come latelys, but you know, we want to do what we can to help and, and you know.

• 1:36:23Speaker 05

  But I, I hope this isn't the tail end because like I said, this is not just about John being in the Medal of Honor Museum. This is about so much more. So I hope this is just the beginning and it's not the tail end.

• 1:36:33Speaker 04

  Yeah. Yeah, I, I do too, you know, and we've talked about this before. We've talked about it, you know, uh, with Matthew Cole, we've talked about it, you know, with, with other people that, that, that, that community needs to be reformed, you know, that, that community needs, uh, it needs some strong leadership.

• 1:36:55Speaker 05

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:36:56Speaker 04

  You know, um.

• 1:36:57Speaker 05

  And I just, again, I just want to reiterate that I'm, it hurts me that the, that the other Medal of Honor recipients are going to be kind of under a cloud of, you know, this, what's going on here. They don't deserve this.

• 1:37:13Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 1:37:14Speaker 05

  They deserve to have their day and, and enjoy their time and their families enjoy their time. So it makes me sad, but um, I don't take ownership of it. Um, I, I put out a post saying, hey, this is what's happening. You decide whether you want to, you know, come or not. Um, and um, among other things I said, but um, yeah, I don't, I don't take ownership of, of what's going on and, and the, the cloud that's, that's hanging over the museum.

• 1:37:42Speaker 04

  Right, right. You, you're right. It's not, it's not your fault. You shouldn't just be quiet in a corner so that everybody else enjoys their day when there's an injustice going on.

• 1:37:53Speaker 05

  Yeah.

• 1:37:53Speaker 07

  And injustice for one is an injustice for all and right is always the right thing to do.

• 1:37:57Speaker 04

  Correct.

• 1:37:57Speaker 05

  That's true. Thank you guys for having us on.

• 1:38:01Speaker 04

  Yeah, thank you. Thank you for joining us. Uh, Friday?

• 1:38:04Jack Murphy?

  Uh, next episode, uh, Tom Gaines, who is the author of Quantum Dagger. He, uh, is a special ops officer. I read the novel. It's very good. It's very cool. Um, and then on the, at the end of the month, we'll have Daryl Yute, uh, 10th special forces group guy. Um, so that's what's coming up. Um.

• 1:38:29Jack Murphy?

  The petition, where can people go to hear more about this?

• 1:38:33Speaker 04

  So in our links down below, we have a link to the petition. If you honestly, if you just search change.org and John Chapman, you you'll find it. We have a link to the predator video. If you have not watched that, you have to. It it it Hollywood wishes they could create a story of this kind of bravery. Honestly. And then we also have the citations for both John Chapman. Thanks, Dee, for John Chapman and Britt Slabinski. We have both of their citations that you can read for your edification.

• 1:39:14Speaker 04

  And then also find Matt, Matt Cubbler, C U B B L E R, on on YouTube and Instagram. And Lori, aside from Alone Alone at Dawn, is there any place people can find you? Is there any place on social media?

• 1:39:32Speaker 05

  I'm on Facebook. That's it. I'm technologically challenged, so that's about all I can handle.

• 1:39:36Speaker 04

  Okay, all right.

• 1:39:38Speaker 03

  And the link for Alone at Dawn is also in the description.

• 1:39:41Speaker 04

  Right, the link for Alone at Dawn, and I highly, highly recommend it. It's a phenomenal book.

• 1:39:45Jack Murphy?

  Great, great place to start for folks that want to learn more.

• 1:39:48Speaker 04

  Yeah, yeah. So and also.

• 1:39:50Speaker 01

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:40:20Speaker 04

  So, you know, I linked in the chat Sean's article from Newsweek.

• 1:40:25Jack Murphy?

  Yep, yep.

• 1:40:26Speaker 04

  Which is.

• 1:40:27Speaker 00

  OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 make it happen fast. Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of five-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:40:54Speaker 04

  Very good. Which is a very good article. So, okay, thank you very much.

• 1:41:00Speaker 07

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.

• 1:41:30Speaker 04

  Everybody, appreciate it.

• 1:41:33Jack Murphy?

  And we'll see you guys next time.

• 1:41:35Speaker 05

  Good night.

• 1:41:36Speaker 04

  Good night.

• 1:41:36Speaker 07

  Cash flow crunch? OnDeck's small business line of credit gives your business immediate access to funds up to $200,000 right when you need it. Cover seasonal dips, manage payroll, restock inventory, or tackle unexpected expenses without missing a beat. With flexible draws, transparent pricing, and control over repayment, get funded quickly and confidently. Apply today at ondeck.com. Funds could be available as soon as tomorrow. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval. OnDeck is built to back small businesses like yours. Whether you're buying equipment, expanding your team, or bridging cash flow gaps, OnDeck's loans up to $400,000 help make it happen fast.

• 1:42:18Speaker 07

  Rated A+ by the Better Business Bureau and earning thousands of 5-star TrustPilot reviews, OnDeck delivers funding you can count on. Apply in minutes at ondeck.com. Depending on certain loan attributes, your business loan may be issued by OnDeck or Celtic Bank. OnDeck does not lend in North Dakota. All loans and amounts subject to lender approval.