Jocko Underground: Easy Fix for People Playing Games In a Relationship.

>Join Jocko Underground< https://www.jockounderground.com/subscribe Easy Fix for People Playing Games In a Relationship. How do I carry on knowing how life is for me.. Pull-ups. Is There value when you get older? My kid's new Jiu Jitsu instructor is causing it not to be fun anymore. Good resume, but struggling to get a job. Support this podcast at — https://redcircle.com/jocko-podcast/exclusive-content

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Jocko Willink?

  This is the Jocko Underground Podcast, number 176, sitting here with Echo Charles, here to answer your questions, provide courses of action, recommendations, sometimes even plans, advice, counsel, based on the questions that you all send us, so.

• 0:22Speaker 01

  Brother, this life can be confusing, and without, like, not everybody has like, like, solid guidance at every step, by the way.

• 0:31Jocko Willink?

  That is true.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  That's why this stuff can be very helpful.

• 0:34Jocko Willink?

  Can be, check. Alright, let's get into it. First question.

• 0:41Speaker 01

  How, real quick, you were 18, right, when you joined the military?

• 0:45Jocko Willink?

  Technically, I was 17 when I joined, and, yeah, no, I was 18, yes.

• 0:52Speaker 01

  So you graduated high school?

• 0:53Jocko Willink?

  Yes.

• 0:55Speaker 01

  Graduated, uh, well, what was your, because you lived in, like, rural, right?

• 0:59Jocko Willink?

  The middle of nowhere.

• 1:00Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, so you graduated high school, actual graduation, or was that a GED scenario?

• 1:04Jocko Willink?

  No, it wasn't a GED scenario, but I did leave high school kind of early, because I had all the credits that I needed.

• 1:09Speaker 01

  Yeah, so, yeah, see, okay, either way, we're done with high school legitimately officially? Did you go right into the military?

• 1:16Jocko Willink?

  No, because there's a, there's a waiting period, so I had to wait.

• 1:20Speaker 01

  Okay, yeah, how long?

• 1:22Jocko Willink?

  It was long.

• 1:23Speaker 01

  Like, more than a year?

• 1:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, it was close to.

• 1:28Speaker 01

  So you graduated high school, usually that's it, when were you done school?

• 1:31Jocko Willink?

  Eighty-nine.

• 1:32Speaker 01

  Eighty-nine?

• 1:32Jocko Willink?

  Class of eighty-nine, get some.

• 1:33Speaker 01

  So you, but then?

• 1:34Jocko Willink?

  Then I left in ninety.

• 1:36Speaker 01

  So that, okay, but that's usually in June, so, June, do you remember how early? The only reason I'm asking, I want to know how many years or months or days or how, how long of a time did you have in your whole life?

• 1:50Speaker 01

  Where you didn't really have much guidance, or like, you know, you didn't have the direction, you know?

• 1:57Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, I mean, I kind of count the first eighteen years of my life as that.

• 2:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, not really, though, you know, because you had both parents.

• 2:09Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:09Speaker 01

  You had school.

• 2:10Jocko Willink?

  Yeah.

• 2:10Speaker 01

  You know, it's like, that's that's guidance. It's legit guidance. Like, some people.

• 2:17Speaker 01

  Some of us will say, after high school, you know, you go to college because that's sort of how and then, bro, when I was done freaking, no guidance. Absolutely none.

• 2:26Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, there's, there's.

• 2:30Jocko Willink?

  The military is like a whole nother level of guidance.

• 2:33Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:33Jocko Willink?

  You know, it's full on guidance. You know, which is very helpful.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:39Jocko Willink?

  And it's, it's honestly, it's kind of incredible.

• 2:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:43Jocko Willink?

  You know, that. You can just be, just have no clue.

• 2:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:49Jocko Willink?

  And you join the military and you have a job, you have a paycheck, you have health insurance, you have dental. You have food every single day, you have a place to live, and you are. Considered to be a, by most people, to be like a contributor to, a positive contributor to society.

• 3:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:10Jocko Willink?

  It is truly incredible.

• 3:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 3:11Jocko Willink?

  And it's amazing.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  Not to mention, one of the more important parts, you have training and guidance.

• 3:17Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, for sure.

• 3:18Speaker 01

  There's no confusion. Like, you don't know what to do. Ask this guy, he'll know. Ask somebody who's right in your vicinity.

• 3:24Jocko Willink?

  You don't even need to ask him, they're gonna tell you.

• 3:26Speaker 01

  They know you need guidance. Exactly right. And training. Bro, you want to be.

• 3:30Jocko Willink?

  When I went to officer candidate school, because I was old, older, but like, uh, these women came in to talk to us. And they were, they were, and I was a married dude at the time, but they were talking to these young officer candidates. And they were saying that there's going to be hoochie mamas out.

• 3:48Jocko Willink?

  They said there's and there's females in the class too, right? But these women didn't care. They were giving a warning to these young officer candidates. When you go out of town, there's gonna be hoochie mamas out there. They're looking and they're they're quoting like officer gentleman. It was classic.

• 4:04Speaker 01

  Wait, who are these?

• 4:05Jocko Willink?

  Just I forget. There were women that were teaching us some course on something like some course on. I I forget. Maybe it was about.

• 4:16Jocko Willink?

  You know, the benefits of the Navy or the moving. It was like some administrative part of the Navy.

• 4:21Speaker 01

  It was still. Yeah. Okay. So it's military stuff.

• 4:23Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but they weren't military. They're civilians, but clearly, again, I forget what they did, but they gave. They were supposed to talk to us for a half an hour about whatever the subject was, but they talked to us for 20 minutes about hoochie mamas.

• 4:36Jocko Willink?

  It was classic.

• 4:37Speaker 01

  Ah, but that does kind of bring up a good point where, yeah, that is another thing. That's something that the military won't train you and teach you and guide you with. Like how to deal with breakups and, you know, curls, like all this stuff. I mean, you know, they might have some good, maybe good sexual harassment guidance, you know, like, hey, let's avoid that in the workplace kind of a thing. But like, what?

• 4:56Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, they have that.

• 4:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, yeah. But like, how to deal with a breakup like, you know, so I'm just saying this good guy.

• 5:01Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, but yeah, you're right. But because you have a mentor, not not just not a technical mentor. But you show up to work and you're like all bummed out. Someone's gonna go, hey, what's up? What's up, Charles? And you go, man, my girlfriend just told me. Oh, dude, don't worry about that. There's gonna be, you know, he's gonna be able to help you out.

• 5:19Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 5:19Jocko Willink?

  Like, you're gonna get, you're gonna get taken.

• 5:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, we'll say.

• 5:22Jocko Willink?

  Oh, you know, they're gonna be like, hey, let's go down to Pacers, which is the local strip club.

• 5:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 5:27Jocko Willink?

  That's not gonna be the most healthy answer, but it's probably gonna help Charles get through the night.

• 5:32Speaker 01

  In the moment. Yeah. So so as far as that, it's kind of rogue. So there's gonna be varying levels of sophistication with that type of guidance.

• 5:40Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, true, true, true.

• 5:42Speaker 01

  Okay, there you go. Well, hey, look, we got you this time. Nowadays, here's some guidance from Jocko, who was in the military, who got guidance kind of his whole life, really. Seen a lot, done a lot. Now he's gonna give us some guidance.

• 5:56Jocko Willink?

  Yep, let's go.

• 5:58Speaker 01

  Let's go. Okay, first question. Okay, hi Jocko, I'm a single mom of five, former school teacher, now working at a medical school while earning my doctorate. I'm a blue belt in jujitsu because of your podcast.

• 6:11Speaker 01

  Run marathons and live with a strong personal code, discipline, loyalty, sacrifice and faithfulness. About a year ago, I fell in love with a man who seemed to embody those same values. He's a former marine and jujitsu practitioner. We built a deep connection. He met my kids, asked me to move to his town and talked about us living together and building a life. So I did it. Sold out for the mission. I moved to his city with my children, leaving behind a financially secure, hard earned life where I owned my home and had a functioning budget and the support of friends and church. Right as I arrived, he backed off, saying he needed space, then told me we shouldn't talk or see each other

• 6:52Speaker 01

  for six months to test, quote unquote, test if what he feels is love or just lust. He says this is about spiritual clarity, but waiting in silence has taken me from being a badass warrior to an exhausted, anxiety ridden shell of a person. I cry all the time and worry I'm nearing a total breakdown. I can hardly think about anything except trying to get this guy back. Now I'm operating in the negative, trying to find the, trying to find a renter for my home, living in a new place with no support network. I gave him literally everything I had and he's not sure if he wants me. What should I do now? Do I fight for this relationship? Do I wait in silence alone for six months for him?

• 7:38Speaker 01

  Thanks for everything you do.

• 7:42Jocko Willink?

  Do you wait in silence alone six months for him? No.

• 7:48Jocko Willink?

  No, you don't. This is very strange, right? This is a very strange scenario. It doesn't sound healthy. He's made some really weird decisions and asked you to do things. Asking you to leave your, you've got five kids. He's asking you to, and you own a home and you got a good job and asked you to give all that up.

• 8:12Jocko Willink?

  Only so that you could be left hanging like this? Yeah, I don't, I don't like this. Um, and you know what's interesting is sometimes I'll discuss these, uh, these, these questions with my wife. And, you know, uh, seems like quite a bit of the time we get questions where the guy, a guy is asking us. Should I stay with this girl who's done these whatever things they are? And I'm usually like, I think you have to have a very high standard for your relationships. A very high standard. When you see things that are red flags, you should, in most cases, avoid those red flags. Get away from that person.

• 8:58Jocko Willink?

  And sometimes my wife will be a little bit, she'll think I'm a little bit callous. Um, and I think she has the tendency to want to support the female in the situation. Because she's a female. Uh, but I don't, to me, it's not male, female. It's like red flags are red flags. It doesn't matter whether you're male or female. If you're getting into a relationship with another human being,

• 9:30Jocko Willink?

  and you see red flags, this is not going to get better. It's just not going to get better. Now, look, you see an orange flag? You know, you see a yellow flag, you know, okay, you know, we understand.

• 9:44Jocko Willink?

  But you see red flags, straight up red,

• 9:48Jocko Willink?

  then think this is not good. So in this situation, um, I would probably write him a letter and explain that this situation is unacceptable to you. Uh, and you're in the process of squaring things away and returning to your old life without him. And that's what I would do. And he has, you know, 12 hours to report back on hands and knees, begging and, you know, accepting that we're going to be together or leave.

• 10:27Jocko Willink?

  This guy is not who, what you think he is, you know, just because someone's in the Marine Corps, or the Navy, or the SEAL Teams, or the Green Berets, or whatever. It doesn't matter. There's freaking awful people in all those

• 10:42Jocko Willink?

  groups.

• 10:44Jocko Willink?

  Guy trains Jiu-Jitsu? Whatever. Means nothing. Can it be cool? Sure, it can be cool. It can definitely be cool. But it doesn't mean they're a good person, at all. This is very strange behavior. Very, very strange behavior. And even if you wanted to like test the love or lust theory, right? Just, okay, cool, we won't like have physical intimacy. But we'll still hang out. Well, let's see, we'll see how that test goes. You know what I'm saying?

• 11:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, fully.

• 11:17Jocko Willink?

  But, but just to say, "Don't contact me for six months, once you moved here." That's disrespectful, that's freaking manipulative, that's bad, you got five kids.

• 11:28Jocko Willink?

  And by the way, you sound pretty awesome.

• 11:31Jocko Willink?

  So keep doing awesome stuff. Keep running marathons, keep going to school, keep getting your doctorate, keep training Jiu-Jitsu. And eventually, a real man that lives these values

• 11:44Jocko Willink?

  will find you.

• 11:47Jocko Willink?

  And if one doesn't, that's fine. You got five kids, you got, you got, you're awesome. You got plenty of stuff going on, you're gonna help a bunch of people, being a doctor

• 11:56Jocko Willink?

  in, in the medical field. This guy does not seem to be the one. So I would give him an ultimatum, and you know, normally I don't, I'm not an encourager of ultimatums. This guy needs an ultimatum. You got 12 hours, dude. But even that, I'd be careful, because he seems like the type of person that would, you know, okay, okay, and then he's gonna do other weird shit. This doesn't sound good. That's what I got.

• 12:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:21Jocko Willink?

  Red flags, avoid.

• 12:24Speaker 01

  Let me offer another perspective.

• 12:25Jocko Willink?

  Let's hear it dude.

• 12:26Speaker 01

  Either way, I think that's the move.

• 12:29Jocko Willink?

  Look, I tried to, I just real quick. I tried in my head, like, what if this dude is just like, okay, I need to make sure that this is a hundred percent. I can get, make sure, let's wait six, like, for instance, if a dude's going on deployment and he meets a girl, you're like, hey dude, just wait six months, go on deployment, see if it's for real, right? That's cool. I understand. I've given that advice before.

• 12:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I agree.

• 12:48Jocko Willink?

  I have given that advice before. This is not the same thing.

• 12:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 12:53Jocko Willink?

  But go ahead.

• 12:53Speaker 01

  Potentially, yes. So this, this is a possibility because there's a lot of variables unknown, we'll call them. So.

• 13:02Speaker 01

  You know how you said, and I agree that this is weird, strange behavior, right? Where it's like, hell yeah, they're hitting off, all good. He's like, yeah, come move here. And you know, all this, we talked about moving, you know, all this stuff, whatever. So, and I'm not saying she did this, I'm just saying these are things we have to consider. Cause we haven't heard from the guy, so we don't know.

• 13:24Speaker 01

  Put bluntly, did she become like clingy, right? Like too clingy? And I don't mean like just clingy, because she said, according to her, she was like this, this kind of badass chick, right? Very desirable, as far as like, you know, what we're seeing. But then. Became like a shell of a person, right? After a while. So. Was she like so badass or whatever? And then the mere like thought or hint of getting together, she became like, kind of like, she flipped and became sort of, came off as desperate, right? And look, I'm not saying that's good, bad, nothing. I'm just saying, did she kind of change who she is? And become less attractive, you see what I'm saying, to this guy?

• 14:06Speaker 01

  So like, if he's like, and who know, like, what if, what if they're talking about, yeah, maybe move in or whatever? And then she all of a sudden just shows up at his doorstep or whatever.

• 14:13Jocko Willink?

  Yeah, if you did that. Then that could have triggered some of this behavior, but either way, your protocol needs to be the same.

• 14:18Speaker 01

  Hundred percent. That's correct. So basically it goes like, let's say this were the case. Let's say I'm right, right? What I'm implying is like, put bluntly, I'm not saying anyone did anything. I'm just saying this is something to consider. Where you're this badass girl, you, you go to school, you got, you just do the whole deal, principal, the whole deal. And then the, you know, you got enamored with this guy and then folded into this, no, no, no, no, insecure. Like shell of a person, your words or her words. And then she became that, right? No support network, the whole thing, just like you kind of became a different person. I don't know how attractive that is to, you know, to a guy, if he's attracted to this original girl that you are. See what I'm saying? So I'm not saying that's good, bad, nothing like that. No judgment. I'm just saying, what if that's the dynamic?

• 15:01Speaker 01

  And like I said before, either way, that's the move. The move is like, hey, whether it's your fault, his fault, or whatever, the, the move is to go back and be badass. And if, if what I'm suggesting is the case, or what I'm introducing is the case, then he'll be like, oh, then maybe you'll have a, a chance to maybe kind of get back together. See what I'm saying? If you even want that. What I'm saying is it, it's, it's not necessarily him being weird. It could be her kind of flipping the script just a little bit.

• 15:34Jocko Willink?

  Could be.

• 15:34Speaker 01

  You see what I'm saying?

• 15:35Jocko Willink?

  Definitely pay attention on the future. You know, if you, he might have, you know, he might not have had as strong of feelings as you had. And then when you went full bore, like, oh, I'll move there. And then you got there and he's like, hold on a second. I expected a little resistance, you know, and here you are, sold your house or whatever, moved out here. Wait a second, I'm not ready for this.

• 15:56Speaker 01

  Exactly right.

• 15:57Jocko Willink?

  So, which again, your protocol needs to be the same, like walk away. And, and then just pay attention in the future. Make sure that. So that is a little excerpt of what we are doing on the Jocko Underground podcast. So if you want to continue to listen.

• 16:15Jocko Willink?

  Go to jockounderground.com and subscribe and we're doing this, we're doing this to mitigate our reliance on external platforms. So we are not subject to their control and we are doing this so that we can support the Jocko Podcast, which will remain as is free for all, as long as we can keep it that way. But we, but we are doing this so we don't have to be under the control of sponsors. And we're doing it so we can give you more control, more interaction, more direct connections, better communications with us. And to do that, we are, we're building a website right now where we'll be able to utilize to strengthen

• 17:00Jocko Willink?

  this legion of troopers that are in the game with us. So thank you. It's jockounderground.com. It costs $8.18 a month. And if you can't afford to support us, we can still support you. Just email [email protected] and we'll get you taken care of. Until then, we will see you mobilized underground.