KHC 208 - Field Notes: Tips to Prepare You for Your Hunting Season

We’ve pulled clips from 12 of our most viewed guests' conversations about hunting to bring you their experiences and advice on how to be more successful while hunting big game. Follow along: Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes Twitter: https://twitter.com/cameronhanes Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/ Website: https://www.cameronhanes.com Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Casey Anderson: Being in Tune with Nature 00:06:03 – Casey Brooks: Calling Elk in the Right Way 00:13:09 – Remi Warren: Wind & Stalking Animals 00:18:25 – Dan Staton: Adapting to Hard Situations in Hunting 00:20:49 – Brian Barney: Don’t Be Susceptible to Quitting 00:30:08 – Casey Anderson: Predator Tactics to Use in Hunting 00:37:22 – John & Jenn Rivet: What Ruins Bear Hunts 00:40:18 – Kevin Akers: Taking Chances and Calling in Elk 00:47:37 – John Barklow: Preparation & Planning Hunts 01:01:09 – Remi Warren: Paying Attention While Hunting 01:11:56 – Levi Morgan: Judging Shot Yardage 01:14:24 – Greg Poole: Bow & Arrow Energy 01:25:33 – Craig Francis: Presenting Hunting in a Positive Manner 01:28:30 – Lorenzo Sartini: Grip-N-Grins & Respecting the Story 01:32:35 – Casey Brooks: Be Respectful to Other Hunters Thank you to our sponsors: Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription ALP: https://alppouch.com/ use code CAM for 10% off your first order Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 15% off Montana Knife Company: https://www.montanaknifecompany.com/ Use code CAM for 10% off Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Cameron Hanes?

  I use Ketone IQ when I need to stay sharp for the long haul. Long runs, lifting, before I shoot my bow, even when I'm podcasting, anytime I want steady focus without crashing. What I like about it is how it feels. It helps me stay locked in during long efforts and mentally demanding sessions. Not jittery, not wired, just clear and steady. Ketones are your brain's preferred fuel source. So instead of that spiked caffeine feeling, the focus feels calm and controlled. It lets me push without leaning on caffeine or sugar. I'm not chasing another cup of coffee or something sweet just to get through a workout or a long day.

• 0:43Cameron Hanes?

  I can train, work, and think without that roller coaster of energy. Physically, I feel ready to go. Mentally, I'm locked in. That combination matters when you're putting in long hours and real work. Visit ketone.com backslash cam for 30% off your subscription order, plus receive a free gift with your second shipment. Or find Ketone IQ at Target stores nationwide in the hydration and protein aisle and get your first shot free. Element was created by former research biochemist Rob Wolf and has enough sodium, potassium, and magnesium to move the needle and get you feeling and performing your best.

• 1:24Cameron Hanes?

  Plus, it has zero sugar, artificial colors, or other dodgy ingredients to derail your low carb lifestyle. That's why Element is my go-to electrolyte drink and trusted by many of the world's leading health experts and athletes, including Team USA Weightlifting, coaches, health practitioners, and teams across professional collegiate and high school sports leagues. You're also guaranteed to find an Element flavor you love. Try fan favorite citrus salt or raspberry salt. Get spicy with mango chili or mix chocolate salt into your morning coffee for a mean mocha. Element is offering listeners of the podcast a free Element sample pack with any purchase at www.drinklmnt.com backslash cam.

• 2:09Cameron Hanes?

  Also try new Element sparkling, a bold 16 ounce can of sparkling electrolyte water.

• 2:19Cameron Hanes?

  To be good at what you do, or to be good at what I do, man, you have to be so in tune with what's going on out there, but you had a kind of an observation about magpies. And just tell me about what that said, or what magpie, what you learned from magpies out there?

• 2:35Speaker 01

  Magpies are, they're my best intern. I mean, I've learned so much by listening to them and magpies are just part of the equation. And if you are out there all the time and listening, the animals are telling you stuff. They're telling each other stuff all the time. We have, there was a point in human evolution, or whatever you believe in, that we were really in tune with it because we had to be to survive.

• 2:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 2:58Speaker 01

  We'd listen, you could hear it. And those who spend a lot of time out there, that language, you know, it's like if you and I went to China right now, we would walk around, we wouldn't communicate at all. But if you get, you're there and immersed in it and listening long enough, you start to learn the language. And there's no different when you're in the wild. And magpies and other animals, but magpies are great in the Northwest because they are always watching and they're always saying things. They're saying very specific things.

• 3:22Cameron Hanes?

  I didn't know that.

• 3:23Speaker 01

  Oh, all the time. Like if I hear a magpie, I'll like, I know if it's looking at a cat, I know if it's looking at an owl.

• 3:29Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 3:29Speaker 01

  And it's just that it's a cadence and the thing and it's, and it's, it's what's so cool now is that, you know, with AI and stuff like that, they can prove it, you know, because there's these little discrepancies in the sounds that they're making.

• 3:40Cameron Hanes?

  Breaks it down.

• 3:40Speaker 01

  But they're literally saying, there's a wolf, there's a wolf, there's a wolf. And if you learn that language, man, it's a, it's like a cheat code.

• 3:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:49Speaker 01

  You know? And so magpies, especially when I'm looking for mountain lions or things like that and bears. And, you know, I might be following tracks and tracks run out and I'm standing there and I just say, if you sit down long enough and listen, there's an animal that's telling you where it's at. And it's, it's, it's a cheat code.

• 4:05Cameron Hanes?

  Are they, are they normally like on a kill and making those calls about the lion or the wolves that they see? Or is it just random, do you think? Cause you're, you're generally, you're tracking them, hoping they kill something, right? So you can get photos and video.

• 4:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, right.

• 4:20Cameron Hanes?

  And is that generally when you hear the magpies is on, when they're on a kill?

• 4:24Speaker 01

  Sometimes on a kill. So the kill, the kill sounds very different. If they're looking at a cat, it's a very different call than if they're on a kill eating.

• 4:31Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see.

• 4:32Speaker 01

  But they're, but I know them both pretty well.

• 4:33Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  And, uh, yeah. And so again, it's just, it's, there's a story being told all the time. And if you can start to tune into it, it, it makes you magic, man. It really does. But it's one of those things, you talk to the Native Americans or some of these old trappers who just really depended on that. They knew all this stuff and they knew it so, so much more deep than that.

• 4:53Cameron Hanes?

  Oh yeah, that's a, you know, where I hunt down there on San Carlos, I remember, uh, one of the Native Americans down there told me that, I don't know. I mean, you, you kind of make assumptions and you make, I don't know, these things just work out and all of a sudden it's a, you're verifying thoughts that you might've had, but he was hunting this bull and he said something about that he was thinking he's thirsty, so he should go to water because he's thinking if he's thirsty, the bull's probably thirsty. So they both went to water at the same time. But just, point is, is just being that in tune with that animal, the conditions, how

• 5:32Cameron Hanes?

  he was feeling, and also not, just not making it individuals, like just thinking, well, I wonder how this is affecting the animal I'm, I'm after, you know? And it was right, he was right, but that's just that level of you say, being in tune and listening and just being aware.

• 5:50Speaker 01

  It's just time, like you said, it's reps, right? And now you just see you're out there and I think we're all, we all have the ability to do it. It's a matter if we're willing to listen to it. If we're a matter, when we're out in the wild, we put our phones down for a bit and just sit there and listen and watch.

• 6:04Cameron Hanes?

  So you've killed 12 bulls over 400, which seems, I mean, I went most of my life without ever seen a 400 inch bull.

• 6:12Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 6:13Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, still even seeing one. And I was, I talked to somebody at, uh, yeah, I mean, that had been hunting San Carlos with a rifle for a number of years. And, and this year they killed like a 437, but had never till then. So it was just like, even at the best places with a rifle, just killing a 400 is

• 6:34Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 6:35Cameron Hanes?

  not easy. And for you to do, do it with a bow 12 times, what, what is, I mean, obviously the area, but, and I guess passing up, you know, giant bulls, because we said you pass up a 400 to kill a 450 some. So what, what, what is your superpower for killing big bulls? I mean, how can you kill 12 400?

• 6:58Speaker 02

  Well, this is where you and I, we might differ a little bit.

• 7:02Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 7:03Speaker 02

  I need to be a little more like you and you need to be a little more like me in, in our style. So my elk call is my lethal weapon.

• 7:11Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 7:12Speaker 02

  And I believe every bull can be called in.

• 7:16Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 7:16Speaker 02

  That's what I believe, every bull, but maybe not, sometime in the season, every bull can be called in now. Giant bulls, I like hunting them early. Okay. So early September, from about the seventh to the, about the fifth to the 11th or 12th, they're very vulnerable. That's a, that's a good time. They're just starting to come in and a few cow calls and that bull's going to come check you out. Once they get herded up, it's a little more difficult.

• 7:42Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 7:43Speaker 02

  And I've shot lots of bulls out of 100, 150 elk, you know, and you gotta let all these bulls, you know, filter through till you get the one. It's pretty tough.

• 7:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 7:52Speaker 02

  When you, when you got 100, that's eyes laying there.

• 7:54Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 7:55Speaker 02

  And you slide into 30 yards of the coast, closest cow and you're screaming at that bull and, you know, he's bedded and finally gets pissed off enough that here he comes, you know? I mean, it can happen, but more often than not, the wind swirls and one cow busts you and it's over. So, yeah.

• 8:10Cameron Hanes?

  Is a, so, yeah, every bull could be called. So you're saying like before they're cowed up, when they're on their own, when they're kind of cruising around.

• 8:19Speaker 02

  It's a good time.

• 8:19Cameron Hanes?

  Getting their, getting everything figured out about what bulls wear, what cows wear, just the area, and they're starting to feel the rut, that's the time?

• 8:28Speaker 02

  I'll just, I'll just tell you this, and it was taught to me by Bill Lancaster, who was a big, Lancaster was a big houndsman. Around, you know, the third of September, the fourth, fifth, you'll be hunting in an area and you'll notice these ridges, you'll start seeing lone bull tracks walking on these ridges. You're out here in Oregon, anywhere, you'll notice lone bull tracks just cutting out and going out through there, not a cow with them, nothing. That's a great time. They're, they're starting to troll. That's a really good, they're breaking away from all the other bulls, you know, that they've been with all summer and they're lining out going, looking for cows.

• 9:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:03Speaker 02

  And, and, you know, that's why I'm not big on scouting or anything for elk. It's really kind of funny. Everyone's all excited to go spend money on fuel and all this stuff. You scout that bull here today during the rut, he might be 16 miles away.

• 9:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 9:18Speaker 02

  You know, I just go out with my elk call and start calling bulls in and when I see the one, I want to whack him. And, and that is a hell of a decision to make when they're at 30 yards, turning the corner and you go, okay, yeah, he looks good, you know? And if he doesn't look good, or, or you think he doesn't look good and you let him walk and then, then I'm a little slow on doing math and then I go, oh wait, he was good. So I call him back in again, you know? I mean, yeah.

• 9:43Cameron Hanes?

  How do you call them? Like, do you have a certain sequence or is just like whatever you're feeling, do you start with a cow call and then go to a bugle? What do you do?

• 9:51Speaker 02

  Always start with cow calls. That's what I always start with. I never pull up to, like if I was at the coast hunting Roosevelt's, driving around at night with my GPS marking locations where I'm getting bulls.

• 10:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:01Speaker 02

  I would never start with a bugle. I always cow call.

• 10:03Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. Even at night?

• 10:05Speaker 02

  At night, anytime.

• 10:06Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 10:07Speaker 02

  And I've got an odd setup that I use. I use diaphragms for calls, for cow calls. Um, but I use a thing called the deep timber sounds, Dan Chlor. Do you remember that elk call? Dan Chlor used to be at the, all the shows and it's basically, it's a PVC mouthpiece that you put a key in it and turn it and you pull it apart. You put a um, finger caught over it, slide it back together, put a dowel in it, cut it, cut it again, a different direction, and then rip the excess out and then you plug that into your collar and it, and it's,

• 10:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:40Speaker 02

  it's unbelievable. The look, you can locate so far with that thing and

• 10:45Cameron Hanes?

  Sound just carries better?

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Incredible.

• 10:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. I mean, way out there. And if I, if I pull up anywhere where there's bulls, they're gonna answer it. If you cow call with that thing, they're gonna answer. Or if you're like Bo and you can cow call super loud if you want to, Bo's got a lot more control with a diaphragm than I do.

• 11:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:03Speaker 02

  You know?

• 11:04Cameron Hanes?

  Well, it, so I just want to back up real quick. So when you said at night, so that's what some people do. People who don't elk hunt might not know that that's a tactic is you go out at night, you're not hunting.

• 11:13Speaker 02

  Nope.

• 11:14Cameron Hanes?

  You're just locating bulls.

• 11:15Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 11:15Cameron Hanes?

  So you know, if you, if you call into this canyon and you hear two bulls go and you're like, okay, I got a place to go in the morning. So it's, it's mostly, and then you can identify, you know, sometimes the size of the bull based occasionally on, on how it sounds, how deep it is. But that's what, that's a good tactic is if guys are having trouble or just need to find elk, go out at night because elk are more likely to be calling when they're comfortable, when it's dark and they're more active.

• 11:41Speaker 02

  Absolutely.

• 11:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:42Speaker 02

  You can sleep later.

• 11:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 11:44Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, we all love to sleep and as you get older, the good news is you don't need as much of it, right? So I get up at three thirty, four o'clock, whatever, four thirty every day. I slept in this morning at five thirty. I was like, wow, that really felt good, you know? But you know, if you're having problems finding bulls because it's too hot, a lot of times at night, it cools down a lot and you can just, you don't need your bow, you don't need anything. All you need, for me, what I like is a GPS because you got to mark these locations. Just run around and, or X, use X maps, you know, and just run around, mark all these spots where you're hearing bulls with a certain color. And then, you know, red hot, man, you got a bull right here. This is the bull that he's acted, every time I cow call, he's answering. That's a bull I want to go after.

• 12:27Speaker 02

  Because if he's, if he's ripping do a cow call every time I answer, he's, he's likely gonna come in, yeah.

• 12:32Cameron Hanes?

  He's prime. Do you, I mean, are you listening to that sound of the bull, like how deep it is? Do you ever put?

• 12:38Speaker 02

  I never pay any attention to the, you know, how, you know, if he's a

• 12:43Speaker 02

  Yeah. You know, those are the ones I always want to go to, but I get in there and they're just five points.

• 12:46Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 12:47Speaker 02

  You know what I mean?

• 12:47Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 12:48Speaker 02

  And then I've had some that just and then you walk in there and it's a four ten bull.

• 12:52Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 12:52Speaker 02

  So I look at every bull, no matter what.

• 12:54Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha.

• 12:55Speaker 02

  So it just, it, it just depends on how, how he's answering. If I've got 10 bulls that I've found, you know, driving around for a few hours at night, I, you know, I'll know which one is the one that I want to hear, you know, or I want to go to, you know, that one is, what do you guys think? Let's go try this bull first.

• 13:10Cameron Hanes?

  Do you, when you're stalking an animal, I would say mule deer because it's so tough. But if the wind is unstable, are you staying back till it settles down? And then, you know, as, as we get, maybe early in the morning when it's going downhill or later at night when it's going uphill better, that, is that when you're closing in or how do you do it?

• 13:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, I kill a lot. I, I actually just did like a, I like put, compiled a lot of data of just like successful hunts, bow hunts for mule deer. And I, I would say over half, like probably sixty something percent are killed between eleven and three PM, middle of the day.

• 13:50Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 13:51Speaker 03

  And it's because like, that's the best situation for the thermals to stabilize and push that wind up into the sky, especially early season.

• 13:58Cameron Hanes?

  Because after three, now they're, it's switching again because the sun's dropping.

• 14:03Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 14:03Cameron Hanes?

  Things are cooling, it's pulling down. But in eleven, it's up, so it's coming up then. So in that four hours, it's the best time for the wind is what you're finding?

• 14:13Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think it's, it's probably the best time for the wind, most stable shadows.

• 14:18Cameron Hanes?

  And also the animal is generally more, you know where they're gonna be because they're bedded.

• 14:22Speaker 03

  Correct. Yeah. Because like before that, like a mule deer, like just particularly a mule deer will go, he'll feed in the morning, then he'll go to bed, but it's just a temporary bed. He beds, he sits down, uh, it might be shaded. And then what happens is as the sun's rising, it's rising and that shadow's moving. And so he wants to stay in the shade, especially early season. This is primarily early season, but that shade moves.

• 14:46Cameron Hanes?

  Because the sun's more intense.

• 14:47Speaker 03

  Yeah. Well, it's just, it's just that the, the sun's moving at a, I guess, at that arc. But when it's up above, the shadows stay consistent the longest.

• 14:57Cameron Hanes?

  Gotcha.

• 14:57Speaker 03

  So as the sun's higher in the sky, there's that point in the day where it's like moving less. The shadows are moving less.

• 15:04Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 15:04Speaker 03

  And so when the shadows are moving less, when the sun hits that buck, he's gonna get hot and rebed.

• 15:08Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:09Speaker 03

  And so when the shadow moves less, he's tucked in longer. And then also it causes the ground to warm up, which pushes the thermals into the, into the air. So you might have a swirly wind, but the thermal might be stronger than the swirling wind. So it's, it's throwing your scent up. So if that wind kind of quickly shifts, then it might shift, but it'll be above

• 15:29Cameron Hanes?

  Higher.

• 15:30Speaker 03

  where he can, where he can smell. And so that's, that's always a good tactic. But that's not to say that I just, that's the only time that I stalk deer because that's not always an ideal situation. There's a lot of places where that might not work. Like early season, open country, high country, yeah, that's a great tactic. But there's places where you have to use ambush tactics in the mornings and evenings while they're feeding. And I've killed a lot in the evening and a lot in the morning.

• 15:55Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 15:55Speaker 03

  Um, and so you, you, you change your strategy based on the time of day and the winds and, and everything like that. But for the most part, let's say on elk, wind is the number one factor that busts you.

• 16:06Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:06Speaker 03

  Because they like, they like to bed on those ridges and the places they intentionally bed where the wind swirls and they kind of bed in multiple positions, right? They do that intentionally. Um, and then I think with mule deer, noise probably gets you the, the wind and noise, but

• 16:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 16:22Speaker 03

  it's like a toss, coin toss between the two.

• 16:24Cameron Hanes?

  How many, how often have you killed bucks come into water or a food source?

• 16:30Speaker 03

  Hmm.

• 16:30Cameron Hanes?

  As opposed to spot and stalking?

• 16:33Speaker 03

  Uh, I'm trying to think. I don't know.

• 16:36Cameron Hanes?

  When, when you say data, is that your own data?

• 16:39Speaker 03

  My own, just like bucks that I've killed.

• 16:40Cameron Hanes?

  So you, you write, how much of this data do you have? I mean, on your kills, do you go back after the fact and write everything you remember?

• 16:48Speaker 03

  Yeah, some, I mean, it's more just like a spreadsheet.

• 16:51Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 16:52Speaker 03

  So it's like, okay, it's just like thinking about bucks that I've, deer that I've guided, ones that we've killed.

• 16:57Cameron Hanes?

  Mm hmm.

• 16:57Speaker 03

  I've killed. So then I just, just, but here's the thing is like, the data's skewed to my particular style of hunting, right?

• 17:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 17:03Speaker 03

  If I like to sit water, then it'd be like, oh, I shoot them all at four forty-five PM when they come in or like, right, right at first light.

• 17:10Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 17:11Speaker 03

  It's very skewed to my style of spot and stock hunting. But um, it also says like, the middle of the day, I, I'm very successful on most animals in the middle of the day. When most guys are like back at camp, that's when I do a lot of killing.

• 17:24Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. What, I mean, why, why do you do that? I mean, is that because history has taught you that that's when you kill? Or is it, that's the best time to kill or?

• 17:36Speaker 03

  Uh, I think for, for stalking in for me particularly, in my, the way that I like strategize it, that, that's the most successful portion of the day for me.

• 17:46Cameron Hanes?

  So for some people, that might not be.

• 17:48Speaker 03

  Right.

• 17:49Cameron Hanes?

  If their skill set didn't lend itself to, to capitalizing on the opportunities, maybe they'd be better off waiting at the water for, once a buck, bucks get up in the afternoon before they go feed, they're hitting water.

• 18:00Speaker 03

  Right.

• 18:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:01Speaker 03

  Yeah. So it just depends on like your style of hunting, but I don't know. I found that that's a pretty successful.

• 18:07Cameron Hanes?

  Do you have an average shot distance that you've noticed?

• 18:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, I think for mule deer, it's, I can't remember. It was, it's like forty-three yards, something like that. There's some outliers, like some pretty far and some really close.

• 18:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 18:21Speaker 03

  It just averages in that like forty range.

• 18:24Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 18:24Speaker 03

  Forty-three.

• 18:25Cameron Hanes?

  To me, the key is, and I never know how people are gonna respond to this, is not the first day, it's the second day. You have a giant day, what are you capable of the next day? Because that's hunting. And we have to string these days together where we're fatigued, where a lot of times in the mountains, no matter how, how well you try to prepare, you do run out of water, you do run out of food and you still have to be able to perform. And then not only perform, it's not like an ultra, you're trying to finish a hundred, two hundred miles. You have to be able to do this and not a hundred, but I mean, you have to be able to be fatigued, have all those obstacles to overcome, and then still make a precise shot and kill an animal.

• 19:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's a lot to, that's a lot to make happen. So I try to simulate that in training. I try to simulate that nervous system taxing of thinking about, I just need a drink of water. I need this or that. I need these little, and then still get it done. So that's, that was the goal with the two days.

• 19:27Speaker 04

  Okay. Well, yeah, you said something to me, I think it was today. I'm not gonna forget it. Because I know, I knew, I knew it, I've heard it, but it made so much sense at the time. And it's like, man, people don't quit on hunts. And I know your audience isn't all hunters. There's non-hunters as well. So people quit, usually not for just one big fat reason. It's a combination of things. It's like, well, this hunt sucks because uh, my foot's starting to hurt. My foot's starting to hurt and I'm out of water. My foot's starting to hurt, I'm out of water and it's supposed to rain tomorrow and I miss my wife. And then like you start to add all these things up and then all of a sudden, there's ten little baby things.

• 20:10Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 20:11Speaker 04

  But when you add, it's the sum of those ten things, people are like, yeah, I'm done. I'm, I'm calling, pulling the plug. And I just don't want to have

• 20:19Speaker 05

  I don't want to be susceptible to quitting because of 10 little things. I want it to be like, it's gonna have to take an act of God to get me off this mountain. I've set out to do something. And I don't think you can just be born with that. And I also think it's a muscle that can atrophy real quick if you don't keep it fresh, which is why I was saying, dude, I'm pumped to come see Cam again. I did it last year. It gave me an edge. You know what I mean? He pushed me on a 22 mile run. I'd never ran that far. This year, I'm sure he's got something up his sleeve and you did. And now I got an edge.

• 20:50Cameron Hanes?

  You know, you said how, you know, you're proving yourself every time because as, as we know, neither one of us have killed a bull yet this year, right? I haven't killed one. You haven't killed one. We got it. We, I don't even know how many I've killed, but I know I haven't killed one this year. So like all the pressure and sometimes I get on these hunts and it is so hard or there's so much pressure, you're thinking about it so much. And maybe things just don't go right, right out of the gate, or maybe you're, it's a different year or it's hot or the moon or whatever. And you're like, have I got lucky for all these? I mean, I don't, it seems like it's never going to happen. It seems almost impossible. And that's like, I think even though we've done it, I still have doubts at times, but that's why I work the way I do. So I can,

• 21:35Cameron Hanes?

  so I can refer back to be like, no, I fricking busted my ass for this. It's gonna happen. But do you have doubts ever?

• 21:43Speaker 05

  Yeah, well, that's really encouraging to hear that I'm not the only one. Yeah, absolutely. It's, sometimes it seems like mission impossible. Like you say, it may be the year, the unit that we're hunting, the elk that we're hunting. But sometimes I get there and I think, how have I ever arrowed a bull? Like this is the most difficult thing on planet earth. And these hunts, you make the best plans for them. They never go as planned.

• 22:06Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 22:06Speaker 05

  It's like you can lay the best plan and you get there and you're just going to face challenges that you couldn't foresee. There are not going to be elk in this unit. You're going to have to keep moving around and finding them. You're going to run into hunting pressure. Maybe the bull, the bulls are with the cows. And so they're in these huge groups. So you're trying to beat all these eyes of the cows. And so you get on these hunts and like, part of the skillset is being able to adapt and evolve to the conditions that you're given. So creative thinking is rewarded and you have to, you know, this is chess, not checkers. And so you get there and that bull is not going to be standing at 40 yards broadside on every hunt, no matter where you're hunting at. You know, it's gonna be difficult and you might

• 22:49Speaker 05

  just get this sliver of opportunity. But I've done it for long enough that I know if I continue to grind, that even though it may seem like I'm, I may never arrow a bull on this hunt, it's like eventually I'll get an opportunity. So day seven, day eight, day nine, I'll earn an opportunity. I've killed a lot of bulls and bucks on the last hour of the last day, just because I continue to put forth effort because I believe in myself. I believe in my skills and I believe that I can make it happen because I've done it before. And so, yeah, I definitely, you know, doubt creeps in, I run into tough conditions. Sometimes on a hunt, it feels like there is no way I'm going to be able to arrow a bull on this hunt, but I'm

• 23:31Speaker 05

  going to give it my all. So when I, if I don't arrow a bull, I can put my head down at night and know that I gave it my absolute all on this hunt. And there's a lot of these hunts for a Montana, a big mature six point bull where I had 20 days in, or last year I drew a Chyris moose tag. I had 30 days in to trying to kill that moose. And there was a lot of days where I never saw moose and I put thousands of dollars of gas money in my truck. I took so much time off work, day in, day out, I continued to grind and I used this system of glassing from vantage points, driving roads is a big part of it as well, because you're covering a lot of country and then also still hunting. And so this combination, but I just kept believing in the process and putting forth effort. And I wasn't going

• 24:16Speaker 05

  to shoot any bull. Like you didn't have to be a world record, but I wanted to shoot a Chyris bull that I was proud of, that was a good mature bull. And eventually I got an opportunity and moose aren't known as being the spookiest animal, but when you've been hunting 30 days and you finally find a shooter bull, like I can't risk it. And so I was hunting this thing in a foot of snow and I caught him in a willow bottom with a cow. And so I was wading through a foot of water through this in November. So it was super cold, 20 degrees out. And so I am soaking wet and it took hours on this stalk. And I finally got an opportunity, put a perfect arrow in the bull. I took 10 steps, put a perfect arrow in him the other side and he died right there. And it was like, it meant so much to me because I just continued

• 25:01Speaker 05

  to grind and put forth this effort. So 30 days later, here I am with my first moose and it's a Chyris bull, just because of that belief and that effort and that day in, day out mentality. And eventually it paid off.

• 25:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So, I mean, that, that sounds great. That's a great story. But have you ever been, because I, the reason why I say this, I've done this before myself, where I've had so much success for so many years and the failures people don't know about because I overcame them and still killed. But I've had hunts recently where I'm like, you already create this story, like it's almost like an excuse, but I, you know, a Texas whitetail hunt, which isn't supposed to be hard, but I had the hardest time last year. So I had created this story about, hey, sometimes hunts don't go. You can give all you got. You created this, you're already making this excuse about why you didn't kill, right? Or on the last bear

• 25:59Cameron Hanes?

  hunt I just did is like, you know, I could say, well, I was waiting for a big bear and I just didn't see one. So you're kind of creating this ready-made story to make yourself feel better because you're, because there's a hint of what other people think because of, you've had so much success. I mean, so you go through all these things and I don't care, I don't care. Well, I can't, I can't speak for other people. I just don't, I come across like, I'm confident. I believe I work hard, but still in my head, I can't lie to myself. And there's times where I'm like, I don't know if I'm going to get it done this time. What, how am I going to, people know I'm hunting. I'm going to make a post about it because I post about everything else. What am I going to say? And it's like, it almost

• 26:42Cameron Hanes?

  feels weird worrying about it, but it's just part of the world we're in. And then funny as it may seem, I had created this excuse in my head and I overcame even that, my own brain and still killed. Do you doubt yourself? And do you, like on that moose hunt, had you already created like, uh, something you could say about why you didn't kill?

• 27:05Speaker 05

  Yeah, there's always an excuse. There's always a reason and you can put in that reason in your own mind at any point in time. But yeah, I mean, doubt starts to creep in. Here I am, 29 days hunting a moose and I haven't got a chance at a bull and the rut's over with. Now I'm into late season. It's general rifle season. The orange army is out there and I'm still out with my bow trying to kill a moose, you know? And so, yeah, there's definitely self doubt that creeps in and it's just like, that's the test.

• 27:36Cameron Hanes?

  Could you have used rifle?

• 27:37Speaker 05

  Oh, yeah.

• 27:38Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, so it's any weapon?

• 27:39Speaker 05

  Yeah, yeah. I could have used rifle from the very beginning or even towards the end. But for me, it's bow only. Yeah. There's just no other way. I want to do it with any species I hunt. It's so intimate. It's like, you know, and rifle hunting is great for experience and it's great to see some success. But, but for me, it's like a rifle hunt ends at, at 200 yards and a bow hunt is just beginning. It's a higher level of hunting. It's a, a higher level of skillset that's, that's needed. And, and really for me to use a rifle, for you to use a rifle, it'd be cheating. It'd be way too easy, you know? And so like, once you get to a point, it's like, it's bow or nothing.

• 28:19Cameron Hanes?

  Out in the mountains, there's no room for weak gear. When I'm packing out meat in the heat or loading up for a long range training trip, I need a cooler that holds the line every time. That's why I use Grizzly coolers. These things are bear proof, rugged as hell and keep ice locked in for days, literally. I've had coolers on the trail, baking in the sun, still holding ice after hauling out elk quarters. That's performance you can count on. Whether you're running deep in the backcountry or just stacking meat for the weekend, Grizzly is built for that grind. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly. When you're deep in the backcountry and everything depends on your gear, your knife

• 29:04Cameron Hanes?

  can't be the weak link. That's why I I teamed up with Montana Knife Company to build the Keep Hammering Pack Out. What matters to me in all things is performance. The Pack Out is built to do one thing really well, break down animals efficiently. The blade shape gives you control when skinning, the steel holds an edge, and it's light enough that you don't think twice about carrying it all day. When you're tired, cold, and working on an animal miles from the truck, simple and reliable are everything. Montana Knife Company is American made, and that matters to me. I know Josh Smith personally, and he doesn't cut corners. He cares about quality, doing things the right way, and about building products here in the USA that actually perform in the field.

• 29:48Cameron Hanes?

  That's why I trust this knife. If you want to check it out, head to montanaknifecompany.com. And right now, podcast listeners, get 10% off any knife with code CAM10. C I M 10. The Keep Hammering Pack Out, built for the backcountry, built to work.

• 30:08Speaker 01

  You know, with hunting, and again, I've killed a lot of elk with my bows, but not like, not like you or a lot of, I'm not, I mean, I'm mid of the pack kind of guy.

• 30:17Cameron Hanes?

  Montana, you got some good hunting there for sure.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's good. But man, it's like, one of the, one of the strategies is this, like, you know, when you're in close to those elk, when those cats get in there, they don't waste time, because the longer you sit there, the more chance that the wind is going to change, the more chances of a cow elk's going to walk over here and spot you. So when they get in there, there's this thing, when they've closed the gap, they just, they're aggressive. And I've used that tactic in hunting, and it's something I've learned literally by watching mountain lions, and it makes my success rate go up.

• 30:49Cameron Hanes?

  I used to, I haven't done it lately, but back in the day when I first started, because I was hunting very high-pressured elk, but I would like run in the middle of the herd. And it wasn't when I was after like giant bulls, but I'm after like any bull, right? So it, I would run, I was like envisioning what you were just explaining, into the middle of the herd, and you could get a shot before they figured out how to react, what to do, which way to go, and you're just standing in the middle of them. And they're all just staring, but if, you know, you can take advantage of that.

• 31:21Speaker 01

  In that confusion.

• 31:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:22Speaker 01

  Right?

• 31:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  They're in that moment, they're all confused. You don't, you don't give them a time to think about it. And by the time that they're thinking about it, there's an arrow already in the air.

• 31:29Cameron Hanes?

  One of the things you mentioned too about how, and we both have, about how always learning or being out there observing. I think until you get all those reps, and you know how it is, you take somebody new hunting, they're just focused on the one step in front of their feet. And they're trying not to kick rocks, step on sticks, not have, you know, make this noise. And they're not, their head's not up. They're not looking around, they're not observing anything other than the one or two feet in front of them. And then what I've noticed too, because I've taken so many people, is like, I, my, I mean, I don't know, it's, you said, maybe it's not even conscious, maybe it's subconscious, but I barely glance down, most of the time my head's up,

• 32:11Cameron Hanes?

  and I'm always, and I don't have to look down, nor my feet are, it's either peripheral or whatever. But just little stuff like that, that just comes with time, you know, just reps, and just noticing things. And you said, like, the lion stays in the shadow, always stay in the shadow. You say, that lateral movement. I know I'm always like trying to keep my arms in close, walking with my bow like this, my arms aren't like this. Even my legs definitely aren't like this, they're in that line. So when you said that, I was, I was thinking, and I, I do think about that. Like, I want my profile to be as unmovable, just as static as possible.

• 32:51Speaker 01

  Focused, right? You just, you almost feel your body is kind of just sinking like that.

• 32:55Cameron Hanes?

  Right, because, you know, the biggest thing people could do is, of course, the back of their hands, and like point at something like that. If you, that far away from your body and animal, I don't even know how, they could be a long way away and see that movement, right?

• 33:08Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 33:08Cameron Hanes?

  So it's just, that's, that's an extreme example, but just staying tight, you know, as you mentioned. What have you learned from wolves?

• 33:19Speaker 01

  Well, I mean, the way they use the landscape. You know, one thing about wolves, a lot of the pack animals is, you'll see a pack of wolves moving on a group of elk, right? And you think, okay, point A to point B, they're going to work this like this. And then all of a sudden, they stop, and they'll back up, and they'll start going back this way. And you think, where the hell are they going, right? Well, they know the landscape in a grand form.

• 33:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:42Speaker 01

  Right? They know how the winds move. They know if they go straight at it, the wolves are going to, those elk are going to see them. The wind's going to switch to their back, and they're going to be gone, they're going to be busted, and they're going to be gone. But they know if they run this ridge up, the backside of it, and they come over this way, and then they all line out here, those elk are going to feed right into them. So their knowledge of the landscape is, you know, it's another thing, they just, they stop down, they all just think about it, and then they all start to move, they all know it, right? And they just go, and they get in that position, and they have to. I mean, that's how they eat, right? And if they make mistakes, it's crazy. But I think with animals, and I've seen with bears, and mountain lions, and wolves, and all kinds of them,

• 34:20Speaker 01

  we think of them being just a super instinctual creature, you know? I gotta eat, eat now.

• 34:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 34:25Speaker 01

  You know? And they're, they're thinking, they're thinking all the time. And when they go out there, they're, they've learned, they know these areas, they've got a map in their head. They know that they can go back a mile this way, and go catch this little gully up like that, pop over the ridge over here, and they're going to nail it. They know that map. And that, there's a complexity about animals, if you sit there and watch them over and over and over again, it's kind of mind-blowing. Because I, you know, there's some aspect, I think, as humans, we don't want these animals to be thinkers, you know what I mean?

• 34:54Cameron Hanes?

  Right, that gives, we have that advantage, we think.

• 34:56Speaker 01

  Right, yeah. And so when you see them have these kind of complex strategies and stuff like that, that's a, it's, it just, it makes me want to know more. I mean, the longer I'm out there, the more I'm witnessing animals doing stuff, the more I realize the less I know.

• 35:10Cameron Hanes?

  Right, right, yeah.

• 35:12Speaker 01

  And there's so much to learn, and to see these animals, the wisdom that they have. You know, a bear in the landscape can live to be 30 years, right?

• 35:20Cameron Hanes?

  Right, yeah.

• 35:20Speaker 01

  They're out there every day.

• 35:22Cameron Hanes?

  A lot of life experience.

• 35:23Speaker 01

  And to think about that, the wild wisdom that they have.

• 35:25Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:26Speaker 01

  So if you can sit there and just watch them for a little bit, and try to just gather a piece of that, man, that's, that's huge.

• 35:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I mean, we talk about, well, if you hunt all of September, man, you hunted a lot. Imagine these animals, all day, every day, every minute, for decades, for 30 if you're a bear. And, yeah, so we think we're good at hunting by hunting a month straight.

• 35:50Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 35:51Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know, it kind of reminds me of, I'm a big UFC fan, so if you talk about like, they have fighters go train with Khabib over in Dagestan, and they're like, oh, I'm going to be, you know, I spent five weeks over there, I'm on a whole nother level. I'm like, well, he's been doing this for 20 years.

• 36:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 36:08Cameron Hanes?

  You're not even close to making that gap up.

• 36:10Speaker 01

  And then all the wisdom his dad had, they handed on. And there's just a community of like wisdom from generation to generation, which animals have the same, which is insane.

• 36:18Cameron Hanes?

  You know, that example you, you shared with the wolf, the wolves, it reminds me, because you said, they might know this gully, they go back a mile and a half, that's a big advantage. Hunters wouldn't really do that. Hardly any hunters would go back a mile and a half, even though if a wolf was doing it, it must be the best way to, to take advantage of whatever that herd of elk was doing. But because they're in such good shape, or can cover so much country, I mean, they're not working out to get in shape, obviously, but they're, they can cover country so easily, a mile and a half is nothing. They'd probably do that in I don't know how long, and then they're in position for that herd of elk. But that's, yeah.

• 37:01Speaker 01

  It's a lazy two-lager. And you watch them do that, sometimes you think they're leaving. And no, but, and then you watch them, and then you realize when you see it all come together, like, that was all strategy, all thought out. They know how to move in the landscape, like you said, and they're fit, and they're fit because they're out there all the time.

• 37:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 37:14Speaker 01

  They can, I mean, you, I don't know, you get me into all kinds of things about my opinion, but if you're a hunter, man, you should be fit. That's just the bottom line.

• 37:22Cameron Hanes?

  What do you think is the biggest factor for people not getting a big bear? Like, what, what sabotage, how do they sabotage?

• 37:30Speaker 06

  You've only got five days, so not everybody's going to get a giant.

• 37:33Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 37:33Speaker 06

  Realistically.

• 37:34Cameron Hanes?

  Because a giant has to come in, you have to be perfect, as we talked about.

• 37:37Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 37:38Cameron Hanes?

  But there's no guarantee.

• 37:39Speaker 07

  But even to get a good bear, like, I don't want to make it so, like, even those seven footers, they're pretty smart. They'll make a little bit more mistakes, but the older they get, they learn stuff. I, probably from being with, sitting with a bunch of, a bunch of hunters for a lot of years, maybe they get complacent, and they're like, nobody's, because they're sitting alone now. And it's like, well, I can get away with this movement, or I can, they'll pee off the stand, which is fine. But if you're peeing 15 times off the stand, your sense is there, the bear smell it, if that big one.

• 38:09Cameron Hanes?

  Just, I'll just say, I've never peed off a stand. So I know people can do it, I am like so.

• 38:16Speaker 06

  I pee at the bait all the time.

• 38:18Cameron Hanes?

  I'm so.

• 38:18Speaker 06

  But they're used to my smell.

• 38:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's true, you're up there all the time, but I don't take any chances.

• 38:23Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:24Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I always take the practice shot.

• 38:25Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:26Cameron Hanes?

  I don't move around.

• 38:27Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 38:27Cameron Hanes?

  I don't pee, or like, I'm like, I pretend like they're whitetail almost.

• 38:32Speaker 06

  Your practice shot is a nice confidence builder.

• 38:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 38:34Speaker 07

  I think people take for granted, like what we kind of touched on before, is because the smaller bears are coming in, and the average bears are coming in, and you can like, oh, my zipper, or a bag, or a can, or a cough, or whatever. And it's like, oh, they look at you, and they keep going.

• 38:48Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 38:48Speaker 07

  The more mature they are, they usually don't mess up.

• 38:51Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 38:51Speaker 07

  Unless they're really, really distracted.

• 38:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, they're not giving you that, that, those second, third chances.

• 38:58Speaker 06

  We've talked before about some of the, the old wives tales of bears, like, a bear's eyesight is poor.

• 39:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 39:04Speaker 06

  Totally not true, it's got about the same eyesight as a human. The other one, the other line I've been hearing lately, I'm like, it's so, it's such bullshit, that when you see a bear, he's as scared of you as you are of him.

• 39:16Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 39:16Speaker 06

  That is the biggest bullshit line ever.

• 39:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, for sure. Yeah, it's a, what I, what I, I think one thing, I don't know, it's kind of hard, is just like those old bear, you just, you just can't screw up.

• 39:31Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 39:32Cameron Hanes?

  And, I mean, I even went so far, like where I killed last year, because I made that other separate blind on the side, because he was so dialed in on, and he was just never coming in, ever.

• 39:43Speaker 07

  No, because he'd walk in, and he'd look, he'd look for where you were supposed, you were supposed to be.

• 39:47Cameron Hanes?

  If he saw something there, because we're sitting on the ground, where we know, so we're, I'm kind of sabotaging myself in that way, where I like being on the ground, you're definitely making it harder to kill. If you're in the tree, in the tree stand, that's a way to kill a big bear, for sure.

• 40:02Speaker 06

  Yeah.

• 40:03Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, so if people say, I want to sit on the ground, just know, okay, you're kind of screwing yourself.

• 40:07Speaker 06

  Yeah, and they want to sit with us, they want to sit with me.

• 40:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 40:10Speaker 06

  And I'm like, if you really want to kill a big one, go sit by yourself, sit in the tree stand.

• 40:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 40:14Speaker 06

  They won't know you're there. Yeah.

• 40:16Speaker 07

  More time in the stand, it's better. I don't have a routine or a specific thing, but I do specifically try different stuff on bulls, right? Like, sometimes I'll

• 40:24Speaker 01

  Just grunt.

• 40:27Speaker 01

  Sometimes I'll just no chuckles and I'll just scream.

• 40:31Cameron Hanes?

  Is it just by feel or just by listening to them or just taking a chance?

• 40:36Speaker 01

  It's throwing something against the wall, see if it sticks. Yeah, that's all it is.

• 40:41Cameron Hanes?

  And so do you bugle with that one same read?

• 40:43Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

• 40:44Cameron Hanes?

  Let's hear that fucker.

• 40:45Speaker 01

  It's gonna come, no tube, but tubes make a big difference, by the way.

• 40:48Cameron Hanes?

  They do. They do. But I think the audio is gonna pick it up. Okay, in this room.

• 40:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't, I think there's a mic under here. There's a mic on my sock, but I'll do, I'll just do some grunts without a tube.

• 41:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, see, so those last few grunts where he had the little squeal in with the grunt, that's, that's so good.

• 41:15Speaker 01

  Yeah, they do both.

• 41:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:17Speaker 01

  Like a boy, you'll hear that.

• 41:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, they're all mixing it all in together, right? It's like, but you're hearing different sounds.

• 41:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 41:27Speaker 01

  And, and they do it. I mean, I just rewatched that video they had of that five by six we called in right after those three little calves come running in. And we kind of scrambled for a setup and, and I called it him and he came and he did that exact thing, you know, he had the, he had a bugle and then he did that chuckle and there was a high pitched part of that chuckle and there's one, there's, there's a note in there on just one of the chuckles. And then it tails off. I don't know. I kind of noticed little things like that and I go, huh, that's pretty cool.

• 41:55Cameron Hanes?

  Try to implement that.

• 41:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, but it's, I think it's doing, I think it's just a variety, you know, just trying a variety of things. See what happens. You know, if they're just barely,

• 42:05Speaker 01

  well, you might want to not go charging in with the stick screaming and this and that, maybe. I mean, might work.

• 42:11Cameron Hanes?

  A lot of times they're like from the bed bugling a little bit and you can tell, you can tell that it's just like a quieter, more subdued bugle. And then you can tell when they're freaking amped up too and just screaming. And sometimes, you know, I, I did say hunters call too much because it's too frequent. But on, on the same token, I've heard bulls nonstop, you know,

• 42:33Speaker 01

  Absolutely.

• 42:33Cameron Hanes?

  Just going crazy themselves.

• 42:35Speaker 01

  And if there, yeah, to that point, there's a lot, you watch a lot of videos and of course there's now, there's tons of footage of people calling elk and this and that. And, you know, pretty standard to have a caller, a point, you're trying to call an elk past, you know, keep them focused on that. Cause like, like we talked about, that bull at a couple hundred yards know exactly where you're at. And when he gets to that point, he can see that he knows exactly what should be standing there. But if the caller's back behind, well, he may see something, but you'll see it. You know, you watch those, I watch the elk.

• 43:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:04Speaker 01

  When those guys are calling and calling elk in and, and there is a certain amount of calling that is like, kind of imperative because that bull will start doing this, right?

• 43:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:16Speaker 01

  Start looking around and all of a sudden, poop.

• 43:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 43:17Speaker 01

  Go get him.

• 43:18Cameron Hanes?

  You gotta give him something.

• 43:19Speaker 01

  So they keep after and they keep and they keep that bull kind of focused because he may call up and lock on something, didn't like it or something's up. Hear the cockle. But he looks back there, that's scary, but that's a cow. That's scary. That's a cow. So there is, there is, I mean, that, that amount of calling is sometimes required because if you, they may get bored or they may not like the situation or they go, uh, I don't hear. I can't, they already know you've got the wind. They know that part. They know one sense is missing.

• 43:49Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Yeah.

• 43:50Speaker 01

  And that always puts them on high alert too.

• 43:52Cameron Hanes?

  I think what, uh, but yeah, they, it's not like they're fricking, you know, uh, what, what, what would I want to say? I mean, they're animals. So it's not like they're, super intellectual, right? So they can think, well, I see something there, but then like you said, you make the call in there and then they're back on the collar. And they'll like, kind of way out, uh, because they're big aggressive animals. If they see some guy on their knees and they, it's a little bit out of, out of place, but it's a, something small.

• 44:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 44:26Cameron Hanes?

  And they're a thousand pounds and then they hear this call right past the thing they're not sure about. You can distract them again and, and give them just that encouragement, you know, fuck that guy sitting there, kneeling down that you're not sure about. You're on a mission that, because if they're coming in and they're charging in, they're on a mission to go and solve this problem.

• 44:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, they came for a reason.

• 44:48Cameron Hanes?

  Or if it's a cow, they're gonna go and figure out what the, why are you in my area or I'm taking this cow back to my herd. And they could like ignore what could be a red flag by whatever. But if you're looking small and you're not moving a lot, um, yeah, they can, they can be, their emotions can get the best of them.

• 45:12Speaker 01

  Yeah, and they can be, they can be persuaded by those calls, you know, and some, and in certain cases, like I said, I've seen a ton of, you know, content on, people and I've noticed, I've noticed that a ton. I'm like, if they, if those guys weren't calling as much as they were, I think that bull would have left.

• 45:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. You had to keep, keep them coming.

• 45:29Speaker 01

  But they kept on them, but that's situational. If you're the caller and you can't see this happening, um, it's really hard to judge them.

• 45:36Cameron Hanes?

  Well, but then also there's that fine line where sometimes you have to separate yourself from, from the hunter and you have to go over the hill.

• 45:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 45:45Cameron Hanes?

  You know, because if the bull comes in and he knows you should be able to see down there and doesn't see anything, you should go see whatever's calling. But all of a sudden you could go down into the cut or you could go wherever, where it's just out of sight. Then that could be enough to pull, but then you're not being on, you can't read the bull because you can't see him because you're over the hill. So yeah, it's, it's, you know.

• 46:06Speaker 01

  That's the hardest part is if you're back far enough calling and you, and you can't see them or are kind of judging when they're finally inside. But yeah, using those, using the terrain is probably one of your biggest advantages.

• 46:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:19Speaker 01

  Because if it's wide open like that bull where he stopped, that five by six, he stopped as soon as he got.

• 46:24Cameron Hanes?

  Should be able to see something.

• 46:25Speaker 01

  He stopped as soon as he had to.

• 46:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:28Speaker 01

  Interesting. But if no, there was a hill there for a little draw.

• 46:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:33Speaker 01

  Well, now an elk count sound coming from that draw, to me, that, that's perfectly natural to them that they couldn't see a cow down in there. I mean, they know that.

• 46:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:43Speaker 01

  They go.

• 46:43Cameron Hanes?

  They know they gotta get to the lip of that hill.

• 46:45Speaker 01

  They know they gotta look over.

• 46:46Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:47Speaker 01

  Um, just like they know they gotta go to a creek to drink out of it.

• 46:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:50Speaker 01

  Right? They, I mean, it's instinctive stuff. So yeah, using that kind of terrain and those setups is, uh, it's, one of your most important tools.

• 46:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 46:59Speaker 01

  Because they will, they will stop when they can and know exactly what they're looking at and what they should be seeing. You know, is there, is there, and there's a spectrum of the behaviors that happen, um, besides that. There's the ones that don't care and run in to a duck call and get shot, sure.

• 47:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:18Speaker 01

  Or there's the ones that don't even come in. I mean, it's, yeah, it's a, it's an interesting little, little game and dance, but yeah, not been able to see the elk.

• 47:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 47:27Speaker 01

  It, it's, it's hard, but I figured you always start off that way too. You hardly ever see them when you start out either.

• 47:33Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 47:33Speaker 01

  So, you know, just go, but I just go with my guts, whatever, whatever sound they're at.

• 47:37Speaker 07

  Yeah, I, I've been wanting to do it. So I was turning 55 and like, you know, it's on my list. I gotta check it off. I know. I gotta check it off. And so, you know, again, that, the, the preparation and the planning and all that is like just as enjoying, enjoyable to me as anything. Yeah. So that was the process is like building that up. And so, you know, it's FMJ dangerous game.

• 48:02Speaker 07

  Two blade, um, grizzly stick, uh, Masai, you know, single bevel kind of thing. So I had eight, basically just shy of an eight hundred grain arrow.

• 48:11Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:12Speaker 07

  But, but, uh, you know, I don't mind telling you, like, I don't shoot a heavy bow really for my size. I shoot like 70, 72 pounds.

• 48:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 48:20Speaker 07

  But I wanted to be able to shoot 80 pounds at a minimum, so you know, um, Evan, you know, got me a bow from Hoyt, set it up and then it took me a couple of months to just, get to the point where I felt comfortable, not drawing the bow, but drawing the bow smoothly.

• 48:38Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 48:39Speaker 07

  Calmly in any position because I don't know what I'm going to encounter. Am I going to be on my knees? Am I going to be twisted? Am I going to be standing? I don't know. Like, am I going to have to hold a full draw for, you know, and risk my life if I let down? Like I don't know what I'm getting into. So it took me a couple of months and then just shooting, I went so far and, and I've done this a lot, but I'm, I'm, you know, you hear athletes all the time talk about visualization. And so I'm huge on visualization. And I think just like, even just, you know, as you're going into a hunt, like thinking through that, that shot, like thinking through that, that positive outcome. And like your arrow hitting exactly where it goes, the bull running and falling over, right? Like, and just that visualization.

• 49:20Speaker 07

  So I think the way we practice is, you know, so to speak, the way we fight, right? Or the way we hunt. And so I, I, I did this a lot for my brown bear. I built a full size brown bear target out of a sheet of plywood. You know, and just, you know, as artistically as I could paint it up and then cut out the kill zone. So it gave me not only the visualization of the bear and, you know, the size, the general size of the animal. But then just a little bit of, um, intention that if I didn't hit, you know, I'd put a whatever, a, you know, block target or whatever behind the kill zone. But like, if you don't hit the kill zone, like there's a good chance you're, yeah, there goes 20 bucks, right?

• 50:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:01Speaker 07

  And so it gives you just a little bit of, of, uh,

• 50:05Cameron Hanes?

  There's some stakes there.

• 50:06Speaker 07

  Exactly. Right. So I did the same with, uh, with the Cape Buffalo. So put the Cape Buffalo target. I, I bought a, a poster, like a full size, like people would shoot a gun at.

• 50:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:17Speaker 07

  And I took it and I traced it out and then I built this Cape Buffalo target and I started shooting it, got the arrow dialed, you know, worked up the broadhead, found out what I wanted, penetration, et cetera. And then I took. That buffalo target and I started putting it in my yard like down in a ravine, shooting uphill. And like, I went in with as much confidence as you possibly could have.

• 50:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:38Speaker 07

  But at the end of the day, there's still this lingering doubt, am I going to perform? And I'd never shot and killed anything with this setup. So like, I have to trust people like that this is going to work, you know? So long story short, um, you know, we got a tracker on the front of the vehicle. We're driving towards a water hole. We're going to sit water.

• 50:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 50:58Speaker 07

  And, uh, it's in the evening and the guy picks up tracks and they're headed towards the water hole. Well, when we get there, the wind's all wrong, like for the blind, so it's not going to work. And the guy's like, well, um, I think what we should do is hunt into the wind

• 51:19Speaker 07

  and, and see if they're around here and then we'll do a big loop and we'll end up back at the water at, at dusk. And maybe the wind will have either calmed down or, you know, whatever. So I'm like, yeah, bro, I don't, you know?

• 51:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:32Speaker 07

  I don't know shit from shit. Yeah. And, uh, and sure enough, as we're going into the wind, so we've got the advantage, they're coming to us. Perfect setup. So, you know, you don't have to, you know, it's just like my best success with elk has been, yeah, I can stalk in, I've killed a few like that, but the best opportunity is like me setting up and letting them come past me. Right? So like, I try to control, again, as many variables. And so that's what happened, but now they get 70 yards away and we'd already talked, me and the PH. He's got his gun, four 16, whatever. And, uh, he's like, don't worry about shooting through like your, your, your cape and like wounded another, like probably not going to happen.

• 52:16Speaker 07

  You know, told him what I was shooting. He's like, you know, once you shoot, don't move, et cetera, et cetera. So we go through all this. Well, they're coming and so we, we stop. We get, you know, we don't really have any cover, but now they stop and they're just milling around and they, a couple of them dead. Because they're just going to wait till dark to head to water.

• 52:35Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 52:36Speaker 07

  Right?

• 52:36Cameron Hanes?

  Are they still 70 about?

• 52:37Speaker 07

  Yeah. And so now like you're in the presence and like you can feel the aura, like this is what I, this is what I signed up for. Like I don't want it to be quick and like done.

• 52:47Cameron Hanes?

  Nah.

• 52:48Speaker 07

  Like, I want to experience this. And so, you know, I, I have a, I don't know why, but I maybe because of the preparation, um, whatever mindset I have, but like I, I, I am not, I don't get nervous in these situations. Cause the way I look at it is I haven't done anything yet.

• 53:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:07Speaker 07

  Like I'll get happy and nervous after I kill the animal.

• 53:09Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 53:10Speaker 07

  But until then, yeah, why, you know, why, why go there? But it was awesome to have them there, but I'm like, don't this up.

• 53:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 53:18Speaker 07

  Like these things aren't going to run away. They could chance, it could stampede us, right? And, and, and the trackers had already told me, like one guy had a scar like up his ribs. And he said that they weren't even tracking a buffalo. They were tracking an eland and this buff just runs out of nowhere. And like damn near gours this guy to death, right? And they all had these stories. So like, this is real.

• 53:39Cameron Hanes?

  They're aggressive.

• 53:39Speaker 07

  I'm like, cool. That's what, anyways. So just by luck, they, they start standing up. Well, we had already seen one of the, there were a couple of good bulls in there, but one bull was bigger than the rest. He was grayer than the rest and he was broomed on his right side. And they're like, the guy's like, that is an old Dugga boy.

• 54:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:00Speaker 07

  Like an old Dugga boy.

• 54:02Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 54:02Speaker 07

  And like, he's not going to win any beauty contests, right?

• 54:05Cameron Hanes?

  Perfect.

• 54:07Speaker 07

  So just, so they get up, they start milling and, and just by luck, this old bull is, you know, they're kind of in a, in a herd, right? And there's maybe, I don't know, 13 or 15 or something like that. He just happens to be closer to me and I just wait. And I'm like, you know what? If it, if, if he doesn't give me the shot, don't shoot. Like you'll find another one. It's either meant to be or it's not, you know? And sure enough, I was super patient. He comes by broadside and he moved that leg forward. And as he moved that leg forward, you know, it starts to like, I'm thinking like obscure his vision. I'm not worried about the others. I come to full draw, I settle in 26 yards.

• 54:50Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, 26.

• 54:52Speaker 07

  And I had a orange veins, a rap and a knock, right? And I just, right now I can still see that orange arrow going exactly where I wanted to, right? And so I shoot and I didn't move. Normally I'd reload. I didn't move. And I just remember hearing the PH say, dead bull.

• 55:12Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, man.

• 55:13Speaker 07

  And so they run off like this and they loop around and you can see them kind of running through that scrub country. And all I can see is like this big black mass going in like a cloud of dust.

• 55:25Speaker 07

  And one little black blob is whole, falling back from the rest. And then that blob disappears and the herd thunders off. I got the African sunset. I got a bow in my hand. My Cape Buff is dead right there. And as that's happening, I hear the death bellow. And I remember like, right now I'm like, bro, I'm like, fucking be present.

• 55:56Speaker 07

  And just take all this in and remember it because this, this is what you live for. And dude, he ran a hundred yards and fell over dead.

• 56:07Speaker 07

  Now we still waited till dark and still waited for the trackers and still did the whole thing and played it up, but I was like,

• 56:13Cameron Hanes?

  How amazing is that?

• 56:14Speaker 07

  And, and even they're like, and you've said this a lot and I, I always agree with it, but it's like,

• 56:22Speaker 07

  that was the honorable death that that old bull deserved and the best death he was ever going to get.

• 56:27Cameron Hanes?

  For sure.

• 56:27Speaker 07

  Like he was literally over in seconds.

• 56:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 56:29Speaker 07

  You know?

• 56:30Cameron Hanes?

  We've seen what happens in the wild in Africa.

• 56:32Speaker 07

  Oh dude, it's brutal.

• 56:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. To, to even healthy animals, let alone old animals.

• 56:37Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 56:38Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, it's, uh, that was a perfect death for him, but what a,

• 56:42Speaker 07

  I would do that every year.

• 56:45Cameron Hanes?

  What a visual. It's like, I can just see it. I, the takeaways I have from, from those stories about your brown bear and your Cape Buffalo is the intentionality in your preparation. And I think people can learn a lot from that because I, it, this is serious.

• 57:01Speaker 07

  It is dead serious.

• 57:02Cameron Hanes?

  But it's not, you can be serious and like, oh yeah, I shot my bow every day. Okay. But to what level? I mean, there's different levels of shooting your bow every day.

• 57:12Speaker 07

  Yep.

• 57:13Cameron Hanes?

  Your level is the highest level, you know, you, you know, had that where you wanted that image in your head. You wanted that buffalo silhouette or whatever. And you wanted the stakes, if you hit the plywood or whatever on the brown bear. And it's like, um, that's what it takes. That's what it takes to be infallible in moments where a lot of people would crumble.

• 57:34Speaker 07

  Yeah.

• 57:34Cameron Hanes?

  You know, a lot of people in those situations, because the emotions are so high and there's so much pressure and you're in another country or in Alaska, a lot of people fail.

• 57:45Speaker 07

  And there's other people, in that case, there were other people's lives on the line, I felt, right? Like I had, I felt that responsibility. Like if I wound this Cape Buffalo, like I'm not going to track it, they're going to track it. And they've already shown me that they've almost been killed, you know?

• 57:59Cameron Hanes?

  Wow.

• 58:00Speaker 07

  I mean, listen, I'm not going to shoot my bow through the, my truck windows, like, like you, right? But, but it's the same thing, right? You're trying to, you're, you know, yeah, you can't simulate that, but you're trying to like, add some, some pressure.

• 58:14Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 58:15Speaker 07

  To test yourself prior to the ultimate test.

• 58:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 58:18Speaker 07

  You know, and I, I really enjoy that process. And I don't think enough people, and I don't think enough of us talk about that for people to understand. Like this is how you, this is how these things, this is how you're consistently successful. Anybody can be randomly successful.

• 58:33Cameron Hanes?

  For sure.

• 58:34Speaker 07

  But it's like, you want to be consistently successful and, and that's, I think to the level it takes.

• 58:40Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. I've been shooting Hoyt for over 20 years now and they're a lifetime partner of mine. That's not something I take lightly. I stay with partners that prove themselves. And Hoyt continues to do that year after year. They shattered the industry standards and built the AX90, the first 90 pound bow to exist and be offered to consumers. Why? Because I want a hard hitting arrow delivered with enough force to push through, say a rib or the edge of a shoulder blade, because it's bow hunting. Not every shot is going to be perfect, but when the animal reacts, or maybe I don't make the most perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow.

• 59:23Cameron Hanes?

  And a 90 pound bow gives me more room for error. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows, but if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code CAM for 20% off. If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Get serious, get Hoyt and keep hammering. One of the hardest parts of hunting is glassing big country to find animals you know are there. That's why I run Sig Sauer Zulu Imaging Stabilizing Binoculars when I'm covering a lot of ground and need to see everything. These binos are a complete game changer.

• 1:00:05Cameron Hanes?

  After long climbs, when your heart rate's up and your hands aren't steady, shaky glass makes it hard to stay locked in. With image stabilization, everything settles down. You can slow the process, really pick apart the country and catch movement you'd normally miss. I've found more animals and saved a ton of time because of these binos. I actually just talked about how impressive this technology is on the most recent episode of the Joe Rogan Experience. Once you use stabilized glass, it's hard to go back. It gives you a real advantage when you're hunting big, open terrain. And here's the rare part, optics companies almost never offer discounts, but Sig is giving listeners of this podcast 10% off.

• 1:00:49Cameron Hanes?

  Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had the past couple of seasons, head to sigsauer.com, grab a pair of Zulu binos and use code CAM for 10% off. Sig Sauer Zulu Binoculars. See more, miss less, keep hammering. What do you think is like a bow hunter's best tool to have in his arsenal? What is like, if you had one skill that was above all the others, what would, what would that be?

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  I think like if you're just, if you just wanna be successful and you could do one thing, it's a level of paying attention. Like the biggest mistake I see people do, whether they're stalking in, whether it's like they're walking with their head down. And it's the easiest thing to do is like, I can tell, I can go out with a guy and know how competent he is within three seconds of watching him walk.

• 1:01:45Cameron Hanes?

  Really?

• 1:01:46Speaker 03

  Yeah. Like, cause people like walk like this, or stalk like this, or they're so concentrated on right in front of them. It's like, you know, the guys that are really good are looking out here. Their heads are like, you can, you've walked your entire life. You don't need to be like down on the ground. Like being attention head up, head on a swivel, looking around, being alert, because it's the one that you don't see that busts you. It's the things are constantly moving and changing. Like any sport, it's like when you're first playing, I don't wanna say soccer, and you're like, you're looking down at the ball and the feet, and the pros are like looking out here at the goal, right? It's like, it's not, so I think that that's just, it's super easy to do. It's like, put your head on a swivel, move in and, and pay attention.

• 1:02:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I, I think it is like anything else. So there's some people who, if they're not looking where their feet are going, they're stepping on shit, kicking shit. You know, it's like, I know what you're saying, because to, to be good, you have to have your heads up, but you also have to be aware of, I don't know how I do it, or how to explain it, but it's like, I look one time, and then I know where to place my feet for, you know, 10 yards or whatever.

• 1:02:58Speaker 03

  A hundred percent.

• 1:02:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So I mean, you're, you're looking, but barely, and it's just enough. And then you know that through experience, that where to put your feet.

• 1:03:05Speaker 03

  Exactly. Yeah. What I used to do, like, it's, well, guiding, sometimes there's, not everybody's in the same physical shape that you would be in, right? So there's, you're like doing a lot of, I would just consider it, I think it's like slow walking, like trudging. Like I've got a certain pace and, and you do my pace, so I didn't way far away. So I just slow myself down. I used to play this game. I would just like look around, not even think about it. And then I'd pick a stick like off in the distance, and then I'd close my eyes and walk and place my foot on that stick.

• 1:03:34Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:03:35Speaker 03

  You know, it was just a fun game that I would just do, cause I'm bored, like waiting for somebody to, so that would slow me down. So I'd walk essentially long, in pretty good ways, like, I don't know, 20 feet or more, like, pretty good. Your peripheral vision can really see the ground. And there's certain times where it's like, okay, look down, check, you know, step, place your foot. If I gotta feel the ground, I mean, I feel, I also feel the ground with my feet, too. I kinda, you kinda use your, everything available to you. Some people just, like, they don't recognize that their feet feel the ground. It's like, oh, there's a stick, and they're just gonna throw all their weight on it. They're gonna, they're gonna just walk and drag their feet, or they're gonna do whatever. But yeah, you can, you can get, I, I got surprisingly, it's weird how just your brain can build the picture,

• 1:04:18Speaker 03

  and you just can navigate like, over the log with your eyes closed, once you've seen it.

• 1:04:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:22Speaker 03

  I, I did that for, I, I've spent hours doing that. Not out of like, trying to practice anything, just to slow me down. And I, I'd just be bored, like, trying to get to a spot in the middle of the day, like, and you got a guy like, walking behind you. Like, okay, I'm just gonna do this with my eyes closed. I'd go miles like that. Like, open them, close them, open them, close them. It was just something like, a time killer for me. It'd slow me down. And it was like, a mental, cause otherwise I'd just be like, come on, can we just, like, it's just right here, dude. Please just, just walk.

• 1:04:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. No, I, I, I get it. And that, that's good training for sure. I mean, I've always thought of, thought of it as, like in football, where they'd have the running backs run through the tires. You know, I mean, I think a lot of those guys were looking at the tires. But if you could get your hand, your feet in the tires, and have your head up to look to where to cut afterwards, I always thought of about like that, like quick feet, good foot placement. I thought of hunting like that, too. And, and I know, there's something about being aware, too, about not just putting all your weight on that. Cause I feel stuff all the time, and then don't finish the step. Or, you know, you kinda like, your foot goes down, it doesn't have to go down all at one time. You know, I mean, it's good to place it and then feel

• 1:05:41Cameron Hanes?

  it as you go, but I think people miss that part of it.

• 1:05:44Speaker 03

  They do.

• 1:05:45Cameron Hanes?

  And it's like, it's gonna be really hard to be a good bow hunter without that awareness.

• 1:05:49Speaker 03

  Yeah. I think most people don't even know, they just kind of bramble around, like bull in a china shop. And they just don't know that they're so loud. I've got, I think I have like a specific look. It's like, I'm always looking back, like with this, this glare. And that glare means like, dude, you're loud. Can you stop kicking every, like, stop dragging, pick your feet up, place your foot, don't slam your heels into everything. Like, there's certain, you know, balsam root, the one that's like, almost looks like a mule's ear, and it dries up and is super loud. That's alarm bells for a mule. Yeah, for sure. People just kick through that stuff and not even pay attention. Like, they don't even notice that they're doing it. So it's just that, that level of being self-aware and aware of the sounds you're making. And then also not being so timid, then you get the opposite, where

• 1:06:34Speaker 03

  they're like, so worried about everything. You kinda gotta, you kinda learn that little flow of like, when you can move, when you can be loud, when you have to be quiet. But that's just comes from experience, and being aware.

• 1:06:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right. It's a, you know, the other pet, so I got a couple, hunting with people, first of all, I hate hunting with people. But if we're gonna film it, unless you're self-filming like you have, it's just part of the nature of the beast. But a couple of things that drive me crazy with somebody else, in addition to kicking everything or whatever, but the pants swishing.

• 1:07:08Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:09Cameron Hanes?

  When you're walking, and then talking, like in a normal voice.

• 1:07:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:07:13Cameron Hanes?

  Or even like, it's not even, it's like a lower voice, but still like, the regular voice, is instead of the whisper type thing. It's like, I don't think people realize how fucking far your voice carries in the mountains, when, especially if it's clear out.

• 1:07:27Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:07:28Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, miles, those animals can hear you, it seems like.

• 1:07:31Speaker 03

  I was, I was hunting a spot last, yeah, last, last year, late season, and I was up on a mountain, doing some glassing. And I had some buddies that had, there was a buddy that had a tag. And I'm literally, I felt like, I'm, I don't know, probably not a mile, but a long ways away. And I radioed, and I was like, I can hear you guys talking. It was just one of those, the wind was perfect. I'm up on the top, maybe an amplifier theater sound, but they had to have been, I was like, why are you guys yelling down there? Like, they're just all having lunch, just BSing, you know? And I'm like, dude, I can hear you guys.

• 1:08:07Cameron Hanes?

  So imagine what the deer could hear. How far. I mean, so far. That whole basin had to know that, oh, there's hunter, you know, humans here. Yeah.

• 1:08:16Speaker 03

  I've always been in that mindset, like, especially with the bows. Like, you do not want those animals to know you're there. And I'd see it all the time, where guys would be like, oh, well, it's not, they, they're so far away, they, they don't care. Like, they aren't running away. It's like, yes, they are not running away. Because if they ran away from every danger, not in their immediate presence, then they would be running all the time. However, they are aware. And when you get into that zone, things change.

• 1:08:45Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:08:45Speaker 03

  That might mean a jumping buck. That might mean a buck that's heads up.

• 1:08:48Cameron Hanes?

  More hyper-aware. Yeah, cause they heard something.

• 1:08:51Speaker 03

  They heard something, and they know that there's predators here. And now, when they hear a stick crack, when you're within 40 yards, instead of looking and then going back to feeding, they're gonna look and stare.

• 1:09:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:09:01Speaker 03

  And that's the difference between success and failure.

• 1:09:03Cameron Hanes?

  Exactly.

• 1:09:04Speaker 03

  And like, I would do the same thing. Like, guys would go, say a ridge, and they're standing on the certain ridge where we'd glass, or they'd, I've even seen it, where it's like, there's a ridge that I would always park a ways away, walk around, sit, like, sneak over the top, using brush and cover, and sit there and glass. It's like, oh, well, those, those deer aren't running, cause the guy's got his truck up there. I'm like, yeah, until that guy gets to go on a stalk. And then he just blows them out, because they're, they, they know that the danger's there.

• 1:09:30Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm. Yeah.

• 1:09:32Speaker 03

  That's huge.

• 1:09:33Cameron Hanes?

  No, nothing goes unnoticed. I mean, if a buck's getting age on them, he's heard a lot, been around a lot.

• 1:09:40Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:09:41Cameron Hanes?

  You know, identified a lot of hazards that he's avoided, you know? And that's just part of it. Yeah, I don't think people, I don't think people give the animal the credit for the, the survival instincts that has, you know, to get old.

• 1:09:56Speaker 03

  For sure.

• 1:09:57Cameron Hanes?

  And yeah, it's all those, I, I even like, I know you probably tell me about this, but when I'm on a stalk, I'm always thinking about what kind of barriers, not just for sight, but also for sound. You know, if I'm on the other side, if I can use the other side of the ridge, and then pop over, instead of trying to stalk on the same side of the ridge, because that sound will, I know that sound's gonna carry right to them. Or on the other side, you can get away with so much more. Or you just, just small barriers like that, definitely in the shadows all the time. I mean, I see people that are, you know, that hunt, and there, if I'm, if there's a brush there, or something there, I'm always going on the shady side.

• 1:10:39Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 1:10:39Cameron Hanes?

  As opposed to the sun side.

• 1:10:40Speaker 03

  Oh, for sure.

• 1:10:41Cameron Hanes?

  Even if it, you think like, doesn't ma, we hadn't seen anything, but I'm still always in the shadows. Is that kinda what you do?

• 1:10:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, a hundred percent. Yeah. Like, move from shadow to shadow, stop and, yeah, cause there's like, it's the, it's all the little things. And it's, it's a combination of, I mean, over the years, I've just found that that's how you become consistently successful, is accounting for all the really small things.

• 1:11:04Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:11:05Speaker 03

  And if you're accounting for those all small things, then the big things, you're clearly accounting for. And it all adds up to maybe a little bit better opportunity. Maybe, maybe, maybe you were standing there, and you popped over a ridge, and you're glassing, or you're looking, you don't see anything, and a deer happens to walk up, right? And you're standing in the sun side. Well, now, everything that has to go right, it's like, it's, it's easier for that deer to see you.

• 1:11:31Speaker 01

  The sun's on you. He's going to catch the limbs drawn. He's going to catch a lot of things. He has more opportunity for that to go wrong. But if you did the one small thing of being maybe in that shade, you could grab an arrow off and knock it without that flash hitting him. And maybe he's still unaware. And then you might have that opportunity to draw back and get a shot. So just a small little thing amounts to larger things. And all those little tiny little details compound.

• 1:11:57Cameron Hanes?

  People don't know who don't aren't archers, but judging yardage to the yard at, you know, half a football field.

• 1:12:04Speaker 04

  Not easy.

• 1:12:04Cameron Hanes?

  Not easy. So how do you do it?

• 1:12:06Speaker 04

  Yeah, that's kind of the art too, to what we do. We have to be great shots, but we also have to judge great and make good decisions is what I tell people.

• 1:12:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:15Speaker 04

  But how I judge is, you know, growing up, all I had was a deer target or a bedded buck target and a bag target in my front yard where I didn't have a range, you know, everybody thought I was just blessed with this 40 target pristine range.

• 1:12:29Cameron Hanes?

  Must be nice.

• 1:12:29Speaker 04

  Must be nice. Yeah.

• 1:12:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Speaker 04

  But I wasn't. I had a bag target that was shot up and my dad would get old rags from a clothing place and stuff it and chicken mash and, you know, but it sat at 30 yards in my yard. And so I would shoot that all day as a kid. And so still to this day, I can find 30 yards. Like, like I call it my absolute. And so that's what I really rely on pretty heavy is no matter the situation, I'm like, I can find 30. I just close my eyes and then I'll take all the trees away, take everything away, just me and the target. And I'm like, where would my bedded buck be in the yard as a kid? And it's like, boom, right there. That's 30.

• 1:13:09Cameron Hanes?

  You visualize that.

• 1:13:10Speaker 04

  Visualize that. Yeah. From there, it's depth perception. I'm listening to my competitors arrows because we're all shooting about the same speed. And so from the time the bow fires to the time it takes to hit the target is the same for most of us at 40, 45, 50. And so if you know what that sounds like, and you're not up first, you're listening to arrows. And so I'm going like, maybe I'm thinking I'm looking at it, maybe 42, 43, and they shoot. And I'm like, oh, it sounds more like 45, 46. So it just makes keeps me from making huge mistakes like that. And then I'm looking, you know, I'm taking grounds of 30, then I'm walking it back to the target. And you just use everything around you. Arrow holes in the target. What are other people doing tendencies? You look and everybody's shooting this thing

• 1:13:54Speaker 04

  high. It must look further than it is.

• 1:13:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:13:57Speaker 04

  So you just use everything around you to make a good decision. It's not like this. Everybody thinks I just walk up and go, oh, that's 49 and a half. I'm like, no.

• 1:14:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:06Speaker 04

  I'm like, could be 46, could be 50. Now let's use everything I can see and hear and, and, and find to narrow that window and make a great decision here. And that's more how we judge distance. Some days that it's really clicking, you look at it and it's like, boom, it's just coming to you.

• 1:14:24Cameron Hanes?

  So when I look at these bows and these things or what everything is always through this lens of hunting. And I just know, I mean, I don't shoot high lead off. I shoot, okay, people will say, well, why do you shoot 90 pounds if you don't worry about speed? I'm like, you're, it's a whole completely different thing.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:42Cameron Hanes?

  I shoot a tall brace height bow. I like a seven inch brace height if I can get it at to get any speed out of that, I'm going to have shoot 90 pounds because I'm 27 and a half inch straw.

• 1:14:53Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:14:54Cameron Hanes?

  But I don't shoot high lead off. I still shoot low lead off because I'm again, for people who don't know, a high lead off bow, you, you can move that anchor around pretty good because you can't feel it. There's no, there's less tension.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  It's rough.

• 1:15:09Cameron Hanes?

  And I was like, because so people could take that comment and say, oh, you can't feel a high lead off bow? Yeah, maybe I could have rewarded it. You can feel it. It's just easier to be off. So I'm like trying to control all these things. People see this thing sitting here. Every arrow I weigh, it's has to be within one grain before it goes in my quiver. And what I explained like to Joey Roll or to Joe or to anybody who gets into archery is everything matters.

• 1:15:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:15:36Cameron Hanes?

  Everything matters. So if everything matters, what, what of these things that matter is going to help you? What's going to hurt you?

• 1:15:44Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:15:45Cameron Hanes?

  That's it. A, a short brace height bow is potentially going to hurt you.

• 1:15:52Speaker 01

  Correct. Not potentially, unless you are at a certain level.

• 1:15:56Cameron Hanes?

  And well.

• 1:15:57Speaker 01

  It'll really hurt you.

• 1:15:58Cameron Hanes?

  All I'm saying is, okay, in a controlled environment on the range, 20 yards, paper, there's your X, whatever, pull back, take your time, do whatever you want. Completely different than hunting.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Yes, 100%.

• 1:16:12Cameron Hanes?

  Is that to say a person couldn't release a perfect arrow hunting? No, you can. The odds are going down. Okay. With all these scenarios.

• 1:16:24Speaker 01

  Every heartbeat, it goes down.

• 1:16:25Cameron Hanes?

  Right. So I'm just like trying to control what I can control. And what I've learned in, in 40, so I've been hunting for 40 years. I've been bow hunting since 89. So it's like 37 seasons, something like that. What I've learned in hunting is it's hardly ever like on the range at the bow rack at 20 yards. I don't shoot tournaments. I never really have been a paper shooter. So I don't, I can't really speak to that. But I have shot at the bow rack a lot. I have shot on my back. It's a lot different hunting.

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:54Cameron Hanes?

  Okay. It's, things are happening a million miles an hour. Emotions are going, animals are reacting. And so, yeah, I'm trying to put all the things that I can control, all those odds I spoke of in my favor if possible.

• 1:17:08Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:17:09Cameron Hanes?

  So I'm shooting the straightest arrow. Okay. I'm shooting, I'll pay more for the, for what I think is the best arrow. An arrow is different from everything else. So you can talk about the bow, talk about the release, talk about the lead off. Okay. An arrow is, is separate on its own.

• 1:17:26Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 1:17:27Cameron Hanes?

  Is this straight? Is it going to fly? It's what's, what's the highest likelihood? I'm going to release an accurate arrow. Can that arrow affect where I'm going to hit? Yes, it can.

• 1:17:39Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:40Cameron Hanes?

  Based on tolerance, right? So if I look at everything individually, and people will say, well, oh, you, you talked about releases, you know, and you say that they're advantage for target, but they're not, yeah, they're not for hunting. They're, in, in my opinion, for me, they're different for hunting. I want an index release. So I'm just looking at all this just through the lens of hunting. If you want to argue about it, you're going to lose. You're going to lose because I'm putting every odd in my favor for hunting only.

• 1:18:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:11Cameron Hanes?

  You're looking at it. Tac is a completely different thing.

• 1:18:15Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah. 100%.

• 1:18:16Cameron Hanes?

  Shoot your high poundage bow, light arrow with a field point, glue in whatever, make it as light as possible. I don't give a, it's not hunting.

• 1:18:27Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:18:27Cameron Hanes?

  It's not hunting. You're not, you're not worried about penetration. You're not worried about anything. You're worried about just tac, right?

• 1:18:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:36Cameron Hanes?

  That's different than Vegas. That's different than hunting. These are all different things. You can optimize for each one.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, so the, the thing that I've been saying to people about your comment, because it got sent to me freaking tons of times, was they're like, and there's even people made some, made some videos about it. And they're like, well, why do you shoot a 90 pound bow? And I've literally told everybody, it's not for speed.

• 1:19:01Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  It's for energy.

• 1:19:03Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely.

• 1:19:03Speaker 01

  So if you take, like, I'm not shooting 90 pounds.

• 1:19:07Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:19:08Speaker 01

  Guess why?

• 1:19:08Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:09Speaker 01

  Because I got a 32 inch draw length. I don't have to.

• 1:19:11Cameron Hanes?

  42.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Right?

• 1:19:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:13Speaker 01

  I don't have to.

• 1:19:14Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:14Speaker 01

  And so I shoot a, either a, depending on my build, I either shoot a 520 grain arrow or a 600 grain arrow and two builds.

• 1:19:22Cameron Hanes?

  That's awesome.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  70 pounds.

• 1:19:24Cameron Hanes?

  It's a lot of energy.

• 1:19:25Speaker 01

  Yeah. Dude, it's like 104.

• 1:19:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:27Speaker 01

  Foot. Well, I guarantee you that yours is probably that or more too. You're just having to use, because of the draw length differential, you're having to use poundage to shoot a heavier arrow, but probably getting the same kinetic energy that I am.

• 1:19:42Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  It's not a speed thing. It's an energy thing.

• 1:19:46Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Exactly.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  And I, how fast do you think I could shoot if I shot a 350 grain arrow? Dude, it'd be like 340.

• 1:19:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:54Speaker 01

  I'm good.

• 1:19:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:55Speaker 01

  I've been there. I've done that. And you just can't control it.

• 1:20:00Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:20:00Speaker 01

  You can't control it. So I'm not going to do it in hunting.

• 1:20:03Cameron Hanes?

  We used to do, and way before tac, we used to do skins. It's a dollar a target.

• 1:20:08Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:20:08Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and it's like, best arrow at every target gets the pot. We cared about that like it was like the Super Bowl.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:19Cameron Hanes?

  Like, oh, we're going to go, we're doing skins today at, or whatever, Myrtle Creek? Okay. It's on. You are optimizing that setup, lightest arrows you can find, most poundage because, you know, this is unmarked. So in just before, you couldn't have range finders, even if they had them. So we're just judging yardage. If matters how fast that arrow shoots, right?

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  That's a whole nother matter.

• 1:20:42Cameron Hanes?

  So we've been through all the tiny little veins, the, the super thin, light arrows, everything. It's, they bend if you looked at them, but they're light, right? And that's different than hunting.

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:20:55Cameron Hanes?

  So we could, can we, we can look at all this and, and calculate it and make decisions based on what we're trying to do. But yeah, to your point, it's, it's not so much, speed is a function of energy, but it's just one part of it.

• 1:21:07Speaker 01

  Correct.

• 1:21:08Cameron Hanes?

  For me to get any energy, I need speed. For me to get speed at 27 and a half, I have to have poundage.

• 1:21:16Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:17Cameron Hanes?

  Because I don't want to give up. You're also sacrificing energy with a lighter arrow. So I don't want a lighter.

• 1:21:22Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 1:21:22Cameron Hanes?

  I want a, around a 500 grain arrow. So for all that to work, 90 pounds.

• 1:21:28Speaker 01

  Yeah. But the vast majority of people that walk into archery shops are barely shooting a 400 grain arrow.

• 1:21:34Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:21:35Speaker 01

  Barely. Well, if the vast majority, and this is back to your comment, your comment was spot on. People just didn't like the fact that it was true, whether it applied to them or not.

• 1:21:45Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:21:45Speaker 01

  And so, you know, when it comes to like all the things that you, first of all, you're a sandbagger.

• 1:21:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:51Speaker 01

  You're a total sandbagger. You act like you can't shoot very good.

• 1:21:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:21:56Speaker 01

  You act like you don't know what's going on with your bows. You are full of shit campaigns. You are way smarter and you're a way better shot than you let on. So you can keep that, yeah. Calling you out, playa. You are, you can sigh all you want. Pete, you are a really good shot. No, you never did the tournaments because you don't give a shit about that.

• 1:22:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  But anyone who's watched you shoot out at the farm, or anyone that's watched you shoot animals, that shit don't happen on accident.

• 1:22:27Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:22:27Speaker 01

  And we've all gotten lucky on animals. So I'm saying, but you're a really good shot.

• 1:22:31Cameron Hanes?

  Right. Over time, usually the truth comes.

• 1:22:34Speaker 01

  That's what I'm saying. So you're a really good shot and you always kind of downplay your knowledge of stuff. And look, man, you're, you know, half, half a mile from one of the best bow shops in the country. And Wayne's awesome. And so you have access to something that is.

• 1:22:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I'm lucky for sure.

• 1:22:50Speaker 01

  You are blessed with that.

• 1:22:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:52Speaker 01

  But you're a good shot. Now, are you going to come to Vegas and drop nine hundreds with Bodie Turner?

• 1:22:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  I'm not either.

• 1:22:58Cameron Hanes?

  No.

• 1:22:58Speaker 01

  But, but you don't care about that.

• 1:23:01Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:23:01Speaker 01

  But as far as what you've done and what you do, you're a really good shot. You should consider giving yourself more credit there, but you're not gonna. But, um, you know, that's just something that, you know, comes, comes with learning. Like you, you were mentioning the, uh, the wrist strap, the wrist strap release.

• 1:23:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:20Speaker 01

  Dude, I was hunting out in Western Oregon, out in the strawberries in like 2006.

• 1:23:27Cameron Hanes?

  Eastern Oregon.

• 1:23:28Speaker 01

  Eastern Oregon.

• 1:23:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  And I'm out there and I had the old Jim Fletcher, the, and man, on, in, on the bag in practice, in camp. Wad.

• 1:23:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:42Speaker 01

  Wadding. Dude, we got out on an animal and I missed like, hi guy. Like full blown karate chop. It was terrible.

• 1:23:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:55Speaker 01

  Twice.

• 1:23:56Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:23:56Speaker 01

  Go back to camp and I'm like, shit, what do I do now? Go back to the bags, wad them up. So I actually pulled out my Zenith hinge. And I've shot a hinge for hunting ever since.

• 1:24:13Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:24:13Speaker 01

  I'm not recommending that for everybody.

• 1:24:16Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:24:16Speaker 01

  Just like I don't recommend people run 200 miles at a time like you do.

• 1:24:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Everything ain't for everybody.

• 1:24:21Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:24:22Speaker 01

  I'm a firm believer in know your role.

• 1:24:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:24Speaker 01

  So for me, the hinge was like home. So when I would draw back, I mean, like for me, because I'm not, you and I are not in the same conversation when it comes to hunting. You are elite. I'm petite. And so, and so, but when I draw back, I tell myself on an animal, every time, the antelope I got in Colorado this year, I'm like, you're not shooting Greg. Just draw back, see how you're aiming. Because for me, it seems like no matter where I go, soon as I come to draw on an animal, an earthquake happens.

• 1:24:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, and it's off.

• 1:24:58Speaker 01

  Seismic.

• 1:24:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:59Speaker 01

  And I'm like, all right, we're just, we're just going to see how you're aiming here. And if I'm aiming good, my release will click.

• 1:25:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:07Speaker 01

  Not because I make it.

• 1:25:08Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I see.

• 1:25:09Speaker 01

  So when I draw back, if I'm aiming good enough, my form, because I've did it so many times, my form will just go click. And then I'm like, oh, we're doing this. Yeah. And we're good. That's not for everybody. But like I was telling you right before we, we went on air, if you are shooting a hinge, or if you are shooting a, a thumb button, you gotta be able to send it.

• 1:25:31Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:25:31Speaker 01

  Because the animal ain't waiting.

• 1:25:33Speaker 04

  I'm a believer, like swing for the fence, go for it. Like fall on your face, you'll figure it out, totally fine. I think there's a strategic way to do it wherein you lessen some of that, just like financial pressure to perform in a way that you could lose the momentum you have if you don't perform.

• 1:25:52Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. And bow hunting is fucking hard, dude.

• 1:25:56Speaker 04

  It's extremely hard.

• 1:25:57Cameron Hanes?

  It is hard to produce.

• 1:25:58Speaker 04

  We do not talk about that enough.

• 1:26:00Cameron Hanes?

  It is like, it's, I get my ass kicked in some way all season, many times.

• 1:26:07Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:26:08Cameron Hanes?

  You know, and so to produce, to get a big bull on the ground is hard.

• 1:26:15Speaker 04

  It's extremely hard. It's extremely hard. Um, yeah. And to play this game, the, the hunting purist in me doesn't like what I'm about to say.

• 1:26:27Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:26:28Speaker 04

  If you want to make money in the hunting industry as a personality, you gotta kill a lot.

• 1:26:33Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:34Speaker 04

  You have, like table stakes, you have to. It does, to some degree, bastardize is a strong word.

• 1:26:44Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:26:44Speaker 04

  Whatever's less than that. But it's like, we're commercializing a thing that was never meant to be commercialized. It can be done correctly, and I really do believe that. I think a lot of guys up and are net negative.

• 1:27:00Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:00Speaker 04

  And I don't like it.

• 1:27:02Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 1:27:02Speaker 04

  Because it's going back to like, why do I do this? Is guys that are out there doing the wrong thing, portraying capital H hunting in a way that's not palatable to a non-hunting voting public, you guys are gonna kill it for all of us.

• 1:27:18Cameron Hanes?

  Definitely.

• 1:27:19Speaker 04

  You should be a lot more conscious about how you do this.

• 1:27:25Speaker 04

  And I have like, dude, I, I'm a mediocre bow hunter myself at best. I love it. I am like in the process of trying to get much better at it.

• 1:27:35Cameron Hanes?

  I saw some good animals on your page.

• 1:27:38Speaker 04

  Dude, I try hard.

• 1:27:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you had some success.

• 1:27:43Speaker 04

  Well, thank you. Uh, there's a, there's 10x more failures.

• 1:27:49Speaker 04

  But it's, it's like a, um, I think everybody has a responsibility to present hunting in a way that is net positive for the future of the lifestyle and the sport and the resource. And like, if you're not doing something to further the continued excellence of the North America Model Wildlife Conservation, you're not in the game. Because if you do something stupid, you could really hurt this for all of us.

• 1:28:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:20Speaker 04

  So be conscious of what you're doing. And I, I have at different points in my career, like publicly pick fights. Because I just believe that like in my core.

• 1:28:30Cameron Hanes?

  Okay, I can't just, the grip and grins are great. Obviously I got them all over here, you know?

• 1:28:35Speaker 04

  Yep.

• 1:28:36Cameron Hanes?

  Nobody offended in here, but I understand who's looking at my page. And so somebody who doesn't understand hunting, looks at a grip and grin, it's going to be interpreted differently. You know, we're smiling with the dead animal.

• 1:28:47Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:28:47Cameron Hanes?

  So I, I sometimes don't even ever put up a grip and grin. I put up truly what's the most important part of the hunt, which is all of it. The journey, the journey, the, you know, just try to share different aspects of it. Yeah, I try to kill an animal because that's what we do, you know, that's, but that's not, that's not everything.

• 1:29:08Speaker 04

  Yeah.

• 1:29:08Cameron Hanes?

  That's just a, a small part of it. But we're so used to only having one chance, like at the bow rack, we should just go put a kill shot up on the board. We don't get a chance to tell a story. So you just put your fucking kill shot on the board. And so that's kind of what we started doing with social media, because that's what we were used to. We didn't, we didn't, we just had a brag board. That's it. So now I'm just like, no, I gotta do a better job of explaining this lifestyle and explaining why it's important. And, and explain why it's powerful to me. And if we do that, I, I mean, I think it can make a big impact.

• 1:29:40Speaker 04

  I agree.

• 1:29:40Cameron Hanes?

  On, on non-hunter, you know, the antis are never going to get it. The non-hunters, that's, they can understand, you know? And, uh, um, yeah, I think by doing it right, man, we have a big opportunity with, you know, social media gets shit on, you know, hunter as influencers get shit on all the time. And it's like, fuck, I don't know. I think this could be a good thing, you know? Of course you can always use social media for, for shitty, stupid reasons, but that's not us. That's not what we're gonna do. So.

• 1:30:11Speaker 07

  And the, the grip and grins and all that stuff, I, like, we've, we've talked about it on the podcast. There was, there was a time there in hunting where like hunters were shying away from grip and grins and all that. And I almost looked at it as being defensive towards the antis, like why are we going to give them that?

• 1:30:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:27Speaker 07

  Why are we going to give them that? You know what I mean? Like we are, I am proud of this. I am proud of this accomplishment. Now, I, I'm a fan of, of the grip and grins, but like you're saying, telling the story. So what social media allows us to do, that the brag boards didn't allow, is tell the story.

• 1:30:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yep.

• 1:30:43Speaker 07

  So Brady, Trail, Omar, all these guys are very well-written and very well-spoken. And hunting, when they talk about hunting, even if it's in, in a, in a story post or whatever it is, they're so good with words that people can feel their passion for it and their respect for it and all of that stuff. And I think that's the hugely important part of social media is, is that part of it is sharing the passion, the story, the struggles, all of it, and why that picture is a grip.

• 1:31:12Cameron Hanes?

  What it means.

• 1:31:13Speaker 07

  Right? Yeah. Why, why are you smiling with that animal? Well, here's the story. Why, right? And I think it's important that, you know, hunting, hunting, it's not, you know, we're not sports betting. We're not, uh, we're not playing golf, posting a picture of our scorecard. Like those things are so simple and so like passive and simple.

• 1:31:33Cameron Hanes?

  Nothing's dying.

• 1:31:34Speaker 07

  Exactly. And so, you know, the one thing that I, the one thing that I will give on the, on that hunting side of grip and grins and all that stuff is, we do have to carry a level of responsibility further than most other activities. Because they're, at the end of the day, a life is being taken. And we have to explain why it was taken and what we're using it for, right? It doesn't have to be as well-spoken as Brady, Trail or Omar. But there at least, there at least needs to be a, a reflection of this is why, and this is how it's being used. And it can be as simple as that. And that is one thing that I do agree with going forward, that hunters can continue to do a better job of is fucking post the grip and grin, post the shit out of them. I love it.

• 1:32:17Speaker 07

  I love the success pictures, all that stuff. Um, but we do, we do carry a weight of responsibility because of what our lifestyle is. It's a lot deeper than being a golfer.

• 1:32:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:32:28Speaker 07

  Being a sports better. Like there's, there's things going on that are just deeper and we just be responsible about it.

• 1:32:35Cameron Hanes?

  For new bow hunters getting into the sport, because right now, we have made bow hunting pretty cool. I mean, it's not just we, me and you, just the industry or this time and place. It's like bow hunting, we, we've always known as badass. We've always loved the challenge of it. But a lot of other people are realizing it too now. So for a new bow hunter, what's, what's the key, do you think, for them having a positive, successful journey?

• 1:33:05Speaker 02

  You know, I really don't know. That's a good question.

• 1:33:09Cameron Hanes?

  What, what led you to most of your success?

• 1:33:13Speaker 02

  Persistence.

• 1:33:14Cameron Hanes?

  Just being out there?

• 1:33:15Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:33:16Cameron Hanes?

  Screwing up, learning?

• 1:33:17Speaker 02

  That's it. Tenacity, is that what it is called?

• 1:33:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:21Speaker 02

  Being tenacious or whatever?

• 1:33:23Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, that goes a long way.

• 1:33:24Speaker 02

  Do not give up.

• 1:33:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 02

  Yep, stick with it, you know?

• 1:33:29Cameron Hanes?

  I know I had a lot of failures when I first started.

• 1:33:31Speaker 02

  That's what bow hunting is.

• 1:33:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:32Speaker 02

  It's a lot of failures, but when you, when you finally, it does come together for you, man, a life doesn't feel good.

• 1:33:38Cameron Hanes?

  Nothing better.

• 1:33:39Speaker 02

  No.