KHC 193 - Cocodona Debacle

Join us for a recap of the Cocodona 250 race - why and how Cam DNF’d, the importance of a race crew, Rachel Entrekin’s record breaking finish, and more! Follow along: Instagram: ⁠https://www.instagram.com/cameronrhanes⁠ Twitter: ⁠https://twitter.com/cameronhanes⁠ Facebook: ⁠https://www.facebook.com/camhanes/⁠ Website: ⁠https://www.cameronhanes.com⁠ Timestamps: 00:00:00 – Cam’s DNF and Why Having a Race Crew is Important 00:08:12 – Cocodona Start Line 00:14:35 – Crown King, Running with Michael Versteeg, and How Cam Fell 00:29:41 – What Ultra Running Races Mean to Cam 00:46:05 – The Controversy Behind Peptides & BPC 517 01:03:52 – Women Athletes: Is Estrogen the Superpower? 01:14:43 – Surgery and Future Faces 01:23:01 – Upcoming Rivet’s Bear Hunt & Aravaipa Running Thank you to our sponsors: Ketone IQ: https://www.ketone.com/Cam use code CAM for 30% off your first subscription Hoyt: http://bit.ly/3Zdamyv use code CAM for 10% off MTN OPS Supplements: https://mtnops.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off Black Rifle Coffee: https://www.blackriflecoffee.com/ Use code KEEPHAMMERING for 10% your order Sig Sauer: https://www.sigsauer.com/ use code CAM10 for 10% off optics Grizzly Coolers: https://www.grizzlycoolers.com/ use code KEEPHAMMERING for 20% off

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:15Cameron Hanes?

  This is Keep Krammer and Collective. I am Krammer and Haynes. This is Eric Triple Oaks.

• 0:20Speaker 01

  Remax.

• 0:21Cameron Hanes?

  Or, I mean, or, oh, did you switch?

• 0:24Speaker 01

  I switched to Remax.

• 0:25Cameron Hanes?

  Shit!

• 0:25Speaker 01

  Back to the original.

• 0:26Cameron Hanes?

  Switch. Eric, Remax, uh, what's your last name again? Umanhoff. Umanhoff. And James Gideon Dumfo.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 0:37Cameron Hanes?

  How's, how's it going, guys?

• 0:38Speaker 02

  Oh, great. Yeah, recovering. Yeah, we're recovering from Cocodona.

• 0:43Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Oh, man. What, uh, what is it? I don't know. I, okay. I'm gonna try to keep this one not a shit talkers vibe because I've been like, I don't know if I'm like turned into a pussy after I

• 0:59Cameron Hanes?

  e-napped, but I just don't have the, I just, the shit talking is like, I think I'm like too depressed or some fuck thing. It's just like, so I think I'm getting, I'm gonna try to keep this one like, normally I would call everyone a pussy and fuck everyone. And I feel like I'm not gonna do that. I feel like I'm just gonna be like, just kinda normal, which is gonna be weird.

• 1:25Speaker 02

  I'm doing the same because I was gonna wear my bandana, my durag.

• 1:29Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, you got beat up for that, didn't you?

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Yeah, I decided not to. I'll wear that on the shit talkers episode.

• 1:35Cameron Hanes?

  So I'll just, I'll just preface this discussion. This is a Cocodona recap. Um, I shit the bed at Cocodona, definitely, but, um, you guys were both there. You were key members of my crew. James, you were filming. Eric, you were like, you're, you're crew lead now. You weren't then. You were kinda like, what is going on here? But you were there the whole time. And so I, I thought it'd be fun, um,

• 2:02Cameron Hanes?

  You know, it's weird. It's like last year you get the buckle and it's not even like there's some crazy buckles on ultra, right? This is nothing special.

• 2:12Cameron Hanes?

  But when you don't have it, it feels like you really want that nothing special buckle. I got one last year and just kind of threw it up there. It's like put it with the other buckles. And now this year I don't have one and I'm like, I know it's not very flashy, but it's very meaningful and I didn't get it.

• 2:30Speaker 02

  There's an empty spot on the shelf.

• 2:32Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. It's a, it's a, it's rough, dude.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  I will say Eric has been signing off all his emails with Cameron Hanes crew chief.

• 2:39Speaker 01

  I almost got a shirt made today to bring, but they couldn't, Gen X couldn't get it done in time.

• 2:42Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, that'd have been sick. That'd have been sick. Well, um, God, what a.

• 2:51Speaker 02

  We got a lot. Your race might've been cut short, but we got a lot to go through.

• 2:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So, all right. Well, I'll let you guys like, I'm just going to chime in because I

• 3:02Speaker 02

  Okay.

• 3:03Cameron Hanes?

  Probably start crying.

• 3:05Speaker 02

  Well, I think, you know, to tell this story, we have to go back to the beginning. No, we do have to go back to only two or three weeks before, two weeks really before Cocodona was happening. And that is when you officially decided to do it.

• 3:19Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:20Speaker 02

  Given that the Eugene marathon, you didn't blow up your legs.

• 3:24Cameron Hanes?

  Right.

• 3:25Speaker 02

  So I do, I want to start there because that is absurd.

• 3:30Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 3:31Speaker 02

  To decide to do a 250 plus mile race only two weeks before you're supposed to do it.

• 3:38Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I don't, I don't make the best decisions sometimes, but uh, I'm, I'm just, I'm, I'm just addicted to the environment, to the people, to the community. And it's like, when I'm healthy, I mean, even with, when I'm not healthy, I want to be there. You know, last year was a good indication of that, but it's just, you know, for ultra and for running and for people who love the mounds, it's like there's, it's magical. And so, yeah, I mean, I make poor decisions to try to get my body there and it didn't work out this time.

• 4:12Speaker 02

  I mean, yeah, I don't even know if we could say it's a poor decision because things were going great until one wrong misstep. So I don't know, but I do want to, I wanted to start there because trying to put together a crew two weeks out before a race starts, that is where the difficulty started. Uh, it's, you know, cause then you have to, you have to get an Airbnb or hotels or in our case, a van to crew you. And that's where it really started to go downhill. Because the van we had booked canceled and then Rihanna was scrambling to put one together and we got one, but it was not the best vehicle for the terrain. Uh, thanks to the guy who rented it, but it was more of like a party bus.

• 4:57Speaker 01

  Called the cousin Eddie's van.

• 4:58Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 4:59Speaker 01

  I mean, I And the shitter was full.

• 5:01Cameron Hanes?

  I didn't, I know nothing even about that. You know, that was you guys dealing with that. I'm, I'm out there. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's not, it's not ideal. I use Ketone IQ when I need to stay sharp for the long haul. Long runs, lifting before I shoot my bow, even when I'm podcasting, anytime I want steady focus without crashing. What I like about it is how it feels. It helps me stay locked in during long efforts and mentally demanding sessions. Not jittery, not wired, just clear and steady. Ketones are your brain's preferred fuel source. So instead of that spiked caffeine feeling, the focus feels calm and controlled. It lets

• 5:44Cameron Hanes?

  me push without leaning on caffeine or sugar. I'm not chasing another cup of coffee or something sweet just to get through a workout or a long day. I can train, work, and think without that roller coaster of energy. Physically, I feel ready to go. Mentally, I'm locked in. That combination matters when you're putting in long hours and real work. Visit ketone.com backslash cam for 30% off your subscription order, plus receive a free gift with your second shipment. Or find Ketone IQ at Target stores nationwide in the hydration and protein aisle and get your first shot free. I've been shooting Hoyt for over 20 years now, and they're a lifetime partner of mine.

• 6:28Cameron Hanes?

  That's not something I take lightly. I stay with partners that prove themselves. And Hoyt continues to do that year after year. They shattered the industry standards and built the AX90, the first 90-pound bow to exist and be offered to consumers. Why? Because they have pioneered more advancements in archery than any other company of their time. That's why I work with them, because they are the best. For me, I want the most energy I can shoot in a bow. I want a heavy arrow hitting hard. To do that, I like to shoot 90 pounds. I shoot a 90-pound bow because I want a hard-hitting arrow delivered with enough force to push through, say, a rib or the edge of a shoulder blade.

• 7:13Cameron Hanes?

  Because it's bow hunting. Not every shot is going to be perfect. But when the animal reacts, or maybe I don't make the most perfect shot, I still want to deliver a lethal arrow, and a 90-pound bow gives me more room for error. If you shoot 60 and I shoot 90, I will kill every animal you will kill at 60 pounds. But you won't kill every animal I will at 90. That's just the way it goes. That's why I shoot the most poundage I can, and for me, that's a 90-pound bow. You can't pull 90? Don't worry, most people can't. Hoyt makes bows for hunters at all levels, and they're all the best on the market. Hoyt will never rest on their laurels and bring subpar products to the market.

• 7:58Cameron Hanes?

  And that's why I love working with them. The 90-pound bow to multiple iterations, and while I was impatient, they were not. They wanted it perfected. That's who they are, and that tells you a lot about the people working there. Unfortunately, they don't offer discounts on bows. But if you want to grab some Hoyt merch or selected accessories, you can use my code CAM for 20% off. If you're serious about archery and you want something you can rely on, shoot a Hoyt. Go find one at your local dealer, just like the bow rack here down the street from me, and try it for yourself. Get serious, get Hoyt, and keep hammering. And I think what I learned, this lesson that I learned,

• 8:41Cameron Hanes?

  and we'll recap a lot of shit that I learned, but... I had in my head that I'm the runner, I'm the athlete, I'm going to go and perform and I don't need anybody. That is not true. I need a lot of help and the crew on, on an event like that is just as important as athlete because it's just, it's just critical for to keep going for 250 miles, um, you know, pushing physical, mental, spiritual limits, you have to have

• 9:21Cameron Hanes?

  support. And, um, so I've, I haven't put the emphasis I need to on the crew and I, you know, learned that lesson this year. It was, uh, it was hard. I mean, we, we didn't even get into the hard part because I, you know, before we even got there, but, um, yeah, the crew is, it's key, dude. And I think we, we, we all learned that. Yeah. Um, and we're excited for the, for the next chance for sure.

• 9:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. Uh, it's, uh, I don't know. I don't, I don't like to hear you say, you know, failed or fucked up or whatever. I mean, obviously in my post, I said that, but it was because of what Max said at the end, which was, you know, he said, you guys had to have happened what happened to you guys in order for the victors and Rachel to have her race. Not to say that if you guys didn't fuck up, you fucked up, she wouldn't have had it, but there's two sides to every coin.

• 10:13Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:13Speaker 02

  And so the way I look at it is, is like, somebody had to do it. And, you know, you run through that race and you hope it's not you, but sometimes it is, and that's just life. I mean, I think it's more important, this is so cliche, but it is really true. It's like, what do you do when you, after you get up, you know, how do you move forward? If you quit, then yeah, maybe it is a failure, but that's not what you're planning on doing at all. So, I don't know. I, I mean, we can dive more into kind of the, is that ethos?

• 10:42Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 10:42Speaker 02

  Uh, it's a big word. I'm gonna pluck that one out of the air.

• 10:45Cameron Hanes?

  Not that big, but.

• 10:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, big for me. I think I can spell it. But yeah. Um, so we, we put together a hodgepodge of a crew two weeks before, really like a week before, uh, after you finished the UG marathon. You texted me and was like, hey, can Eric go? And I tried to give him the breakdown of what it was. You know, I was like, it's not a vacation. Like for the crew, a regular person can't just crew one of these races, especially if your racer is trying to push and be at the front of the pack and do things that they've never done before. You know, the, the crew has to be on board with being tired and strung out and under pressure because when your runner comes in, you better have everything dialed because they've just run 14, 15 miles.

• 11:29Speaker 02

  Or in your case, those two sections were 37 and 38. So you're kind of expected to have everything dialed and, you know, we might've missed some things, you know? But yeah, I mean, I guess we could just, we could just start at the start of the race, which was again, last year, we were able to get an Airbnb really close to the start. And this year we just stayed in the hotel. It ended up being only 30 minutes or so. But I told Eric before we went, like the start of that race is so cool because this year there was double the people. But it's like, all these people are lining up knowing that for the next couple of days, they are going to be in the worst pain they've ever felt. They're going to want to quit, but yet they keep going. And to me, that energy is, it's really hard to capture in a photograph or a film.

• 12:14Speaker 02

  But if you're there, you understand it. It's like this, I don't know, the, the crowd's buzzing and everybody's excited. And I don't know, I, I don't think there's really anything else where you can get that kind of feeling. You know, cause in a, like in an NFL game, you get the crowd, but they're not playing. No. You know, like they're not doing shit. So it's, it's a different feeling.

• 12:33Speaker 01

  Well, that's like my experience too, it is like coming from, I know nothing about Ultra. You know, I know you and you've, and you give me like Courtney DeWalter, who I know. So there was only two people coming into this and like experiencing that start line and just the energy, the vibes, the atmosphere. It's like, that kind of was the point when I was like, oh shit, like this isn't vacation. You know, like this is the real deal. And like, everyone's getting to go, go to war and stuff like that. And when they took off and Eric, it was just like, this is going to be kind of wild. And then obviously settling and getting everything going at that point was just a real eye opening experience for me.

• 13:07Speaker 02

  Yeah, but maybe we should talk about our opinions on the start times. Maybe we can start a movement.

• 13:14Cameron Hanes?

  God, the 5:00 AM start time is brutal just because. We know we're not going to sleep for a few days. And so now with the 5 a.m., you're not sleeping that the night before either. You gotta get up at 3. I was up all night. I mean, you, you guys were in my room. We were getting stuff ready. Of course, I never have anything ready, but I didn't sleep at all. And I don't think anybody, you know, you have this plan. I'm like, okay, I'm gonna be in bed at 6. Nah, it doesn't work.

• 13:41Speaker 01

  You got stuff going. Nerves are going. You can't go to sleep.

• 13:43Cameron Hanes?

  It's like, there's so much to keep track of. You got, I'm sure people are way better than I am at it, but I need to get better. Anyway, you start off with that 5 a.m. start time. You start off tired. That's not helping anything. But I don't know, a noon start time? We're, we're not sleeping any, we're up for three days anyway. So let's just get a good night's rest to start.

• 14:09Speaker 02

  Maybe this will start the movement. We'll see. Maybe, maybe people can hit that comment button and let us know why they start at 5 a.m.

• 14:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So, um, that's the first part, but for me, that first, you know, again, I was laying there, same as last year, wondering, what am I doing? What am I, I mean, come on, what am I doing? I am, I'm old. You know, I'm, I haven't been, I hadn't been training specifically for a multi-day. I'd been training for roads. I wanted to get my, my best marathon time. And so I'd been putting pretty much all my focus on that, you know, running with Tru and training more speed. So it wasn't the best decision to even show up there, but I did.

• 14:54Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 14:56Cameron Hanes?

  And you start off and it's like, you see all the stars, you know, I mean, everyone was there at the start line, you know, gave Max a hug, was there with Eli, Andy, Courtney, Rachel, Michael Versage, Killian, everyone. Everyone was right there. Ready to fuck. Oh, Sally. Everybody you know in Ultra was there. And we take off and it's a, you know, that first section is legit.

• 15:30Speaker 02

  Yeah, it is. I mean, that night before we were in your room, but that's what I was doing was trying to put everything in your pack. Cause you don't, we don't see you for those first thirty seven miles and it's a big climb.

• 15:43Speaker 02

  And so I was like trying to count my head. Okay. Calorie wise, he's going to need a little more. We know what we, you had to have during the day, but what are you going to need for that first thirty seven? And I don't know if you ate most of it or

• 15:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I did. Yeah, it was almost perfect.

• 15:58Speaker 02

  So that we can take note of that.

• 15:59Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I was a little, I didn't quite get all the gels in, but I did way better and I felt way better. You know, so that those, that fuel is key.

• 16:08Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 16:09Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah.

• 16:10Speaker 02

  Okay. So from the start, um, I mean, walk us through how you were feeling.

• 16:14Cameron Hanes?

  I was feeling pretty good. Um, I got up there, ran with Andy, Eli, Sally. We got a little video clip. Of course, Andy and Eli, that's like, that's what they do the whole time, right? But it was fun to be with those guys. And then I got up at the first aid station. I didn't, I was good on water because I was so full. I had so much water and it wasn't that hot. And that was only like seven miles in, but a lot of people were filling up. Some people went light on water. So I didn't really stop there. I kept going and I saw Verstige was there and Max was back there. So I'm like, uh, or maybe Max was ahead. I can't remember now, but anyway, I got up there and I think I caught up to McKnight and I ran with McKnight for a while.

• 16:58Cameron Hanes?

  His legs were a little bit, he, they, he didn't have his legs and, um, you know, he's coming off the monster three hundred win. So he, you know, sometimes your, your legs after a big effort like that, it takes a little bit if they ever come back. I mean, props to him for, he ran it out of top 10 finish, but, uh, so we ran, I talked to him. I really like Michael, Mike McKnight. I want him on the podcast. He's such a beast, but, uh, Yeah, and so just, I felt good though. I mean, I was, I was running good.

• 17:28Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 17:29Cameron Hanes?

  So it was, it was fine.

• 17:30Speaker 02

  We were obviously, you know, checking into the tracker and, and then trying to match up your times with last year. I think we figured out that the time we had on the spreadsheet was one hour.

• 17:42Cameron Hanes?

  It was one aid station off.

• 17:44Speaker 02

  Yeah, yeah. So anyways, but you were still ahead of it by a couple of minutes. Um, so we were like, okay, he's moving pretty good. And then watching the tracker, once we were up at Crown King was like, you slowed down right at thirty.

• 17:57Cameron Hanes?

  Hmm.

• 17:58Speaker 02

  We're like, oh, maybe he's just chilling at the.

• 18:00Cameron Hanes?

  There was an aid station there.

• 18:01Speaker 02

  Yeah. Um, but somewhere right in there. I obviously go up because I wanted to run down with the gimbal as you kind of came into Crown King and, uh, you know, see you coming from a distance and blood streaking down your face. And I immediately was like.

• 18:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I was, uh, it was a rough start. Um, I hooked up with Verstige, who, who won the first one. First, uh, Cocodona. He's like a folk hero down there. Everyone loves him. He lives down there. He's just a legend, right? So we ended up running together for hours and I really like him. I'm not, I don't like regular people. I get bored with

• 18:46Cameron Hanes?

  whoever, just if you're regular. But, uh, he's not a normal person and he's a character and I love it. That's who I like to be around. Different people and he's, he's different. I love it. We couldn't be more different.

• 19:00Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 19:01Cameron Hanes?

  And we just had a good connection that day. He ended up getting bloodied up a little bit too. He was with me when I fell. I, and, and what it was, th- this race was like so competitive, so fast. So many of, you know, the best two hundred milers in the world. And so everybody's pushing, pushing hard. And so we were, we're running down a section. It's like really rocky, pretty steep. But you have to push if you're going to keep contact, you know, and we weren't very far back and, um, And I caught a toe and I had my hands in my poles. And so I just, I don't know if I couldn't figure out where to put my hands, but point is, is I caught a toe, went down, my head went,

• 19:43Cameron Hanes?

  you know, drilled, drilled right into a rock. And I thought I told him, I, you know, I put my hand up, he held me up. I was just like, fuck dude, God. I'm like, you know, how's it look? And he's just like, not good. Blood was coming down pretty good. So, um, but I, what I told him is I said, Hey, I don't think I didn't get concussed. I said, I don't, I don't think I got concussed. I think I, I think I'm good. Because it, it, it didn't seem like it should be good, but I felt okay. Um, so we took off because that's what you do. You just fuck yourself off and get going. And, uh, we got back on the pace and then coming down into Crown King,

• 20:28Cameron Hanes?

  I probably fell at about mile 30. Maybe that's where it was.

• 20:31Speaker 02

  That's what I was thinking.

• 20:31Cameron Hanes?

  Um, I'm sure we had a dick around maybe for a minute. But, um, so then I came down into Crown King and, uh, I was just, I was fine. You know, I had, I knew I had blood all over me. Uh, my arms were pretty banged up too. Um, but whatever. I mean, I got down there. I was not in the greatest mood because it didn't seem like our, uh, our aid station was ready.

• 20:58Speaker 01

  This is, this is the baptizing by fire.

• 21:00Speaker 02

  Yeah. Well, when I first saw you, the, the first thing you said to me is you couldn't see that your eyes were jumping all over the place.

• 21:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 21:07Speaker 02

  And then I think after that you had said, you know, you had puked or something. But either way, I immediately started, you know, the alarm bells start sounding because I'm like,

• 21:16Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I hadn't, I hadn't puked at that time. I puked after I left there. But my eyes, this eye for sure was screwed up. But it's like, I couldn't, they wouldn't like,

• 21:25Speaker 01

  It was just weird. This wouldn't work.

• 21:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. And, and you still had your hat on, so I couldn't see it. So I thought it was just like you hit right above your eyebrow. There's a big kind of clot of blood right there. So I'm thinking, oh, he hit his eyebrow, but I'm looking at it. I'm like, it's not too bad. We get you down to the aid station. I, in my head, I'm thinking, okay, I've seen this, you know, not this bad, but you know, blood like that's, that's normal for you. So, but I'm thinking, okay, he's going to go down into an aid station with a bunch of people who have never been to a race like this, covered in blood. This is going to be good.

• 21:58Speaker 01

  Great. And that was the experience we got.

• 22:00Speaker 02

  Exactly what happened. So what do you, I want to hear your thoughts of when you first saw.

• 22:04Speaker 01

  Well, just like the experience, first off, that was my first aid station ever going up to Crown King, which is kind of confusing because there's like all these multiple parking lots. We had to park our van at Bumblebee Ranch. We transferred everything into that we had into Recovery Strong's van with Jared. He was great. So he helped us drive up in his van. And we like, they originally put us up on this like hill. And I'm like, there's no way that Cam's going to run in here and want to run up a hill. Like, let's start unloading stuff and put it down there. Get a chair ready or this, that and the other. And finally a spot opened up. So we ran down, opened it, got it. Thought we had everything laid out and I'm like, well, I'll just wait at the corner here. He's going to run in. I'll call him in before he goes to the next checkpoint. We kind of got that figured out.

• 22:46Speaker 01

  And then you came running down and I was like, holy shit. And then you were confused because I'm kind of like, hey, you need to like come this way. And you're like, no, it's that way. And I'm like, no, you need to come this way. So that's just kind of adding, you know, stress to the whole situation. Then we got you set down. Pulling off your cap, being like, that's a pretty good wound. And obviously someone she got, you know, pressure on it started doing. And then that's where the fun began when you were, uh, where's my hamburgers?

• 23:13Speaker 02

  That's not what he said.

• 23:16Speaker 01

  I already know the answer to this. Where's my burgers?

• 23:19Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 23:20Speaker 01

  Yeah, about that. Well, my list says Pop-Tarts.

• 23:24Speaker 01

  Plenty of blueberry pop tarts. And then getting that like honestly, at that point, it was like, okay, number one, like, we got to stop this, like bleeding and figure this out, what it is, and trying to be as calm as we can. We know you like you're gonna keep going and do your thing. Yeah. So you've probably seen the video on the back throwing stuff up in the air, trying to find bandages and stuff like that. But luckily, luckily, luckily, we were able to get something on it and get some pressure and duct tape it and get your cap and stuff back on. Yeah, it was, I mean, when I took the hat, the hat kind of helped. Yeah, I took the hat off. It bled. Yeah, I mean, it was bleeding. It was gushing. You're bleeding real good. So it's like the hat did help for a while. But then we did get bandaged up and it was good.

• 24:06Speaker 01

  I got some food in. Yeah. Wasn't that happy, which it's, I need to get better. I mean, if we can get the aid station better and more of a plan, because I don't like to waste energy being pissed. Totally. You know what I mean? I want to, I want to focus on what I need to do. And at that time, I was just like damage control, because I was like beat up. Yeah. But then I was also like, what, what is going on? So it was like, it was, it was a rough first one. But it, you know, we got it figured out. It was, it was trial, it was drinking out of a fire hose. You know, but I think you mentioned something kind of after the fact that I thought was so important, like on that and just having that experience

• 24:50Speaker 01

  for me in these ultras and stuff like that. It's like, you have to know is like a crew member, that no matter what shape these people come in, like, you have to stay positive. Yeah. Unless it's something that's just like, obviously horrendous or something. But it's like, even in your case, like, we know you're gonna keep going on. Later down the road, as your legs stop working, like, you have to look at them and go, no, buddy, look great. Like, yeah, keep going and just keep that positivity, because the moment that energy starts shifting, it's gonna affect you. And your job is just to run. Our job is to figure everything else out. Yeah. And that was like a watching other teams and kind of like as I went on and was seeing that and like seeing how people are put together. It's like, okay, there's like a method to the madness here. Yeah. And I, I didn't have it, you know?

• 25:27Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, it's, there's a lot. Yeah. If you haven't already noticed, I'm pretty into routine. I lift, run, and Shoot every day and I usually stick to three meals, big portions, elk meat and potatoes kind of guy. I'm not someone who's constantly fueling throughout the day unless it's coffee or an energy drink. And that's just how I've always operated. But since Mountain Ops sent me their new big sticks, I found myself reaching for something between meals a lot more. I started throwing a couple in my truck to have after a long run at Piska or Spencer's. And I'll be honest, they actually taste pretty good, which isn't something I usually say about meat sticks. They're made with whole muscle beef and pork, so the texture and flavor feel like real food,

• 26:10Cameron Hanes?

  not something overly processed. Each stick has 20 grams of protein and it's a big one at 2.2 ounces. So when you've been putting in miles, climbing and grinding all day, it actually gives you something back. It's not just a quick bite. It's real fuel that holds you over and helps you recover. I still eat the same way I always have and nothing is replacing that. But when I need something quick that still lines up with how I live and train, this is what I reach for. Mountain Ops Big Stick. Get 20% off today using code CAM at mountainops.com.

• 26:47Cameron Hanes?

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• 27:31Cameron Hanes?

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• 28:09Cameron Hanes?

  or online at blackriflecoffee.com and use code KEEPHAMMERING for 10% off your purchase. Fuel the rebellion and keep hammering.

• 28:21Speaker 02

  And I was trying to juggle filming and, you know, then Eric or everybody else was texting me and I'm like, what do I, what am I supposed to juggle here? So at one point I'm like, I'll put the camera down. Like if I have to put the camera down, we'll figure this out.

• 28:33Speaker 01

  Yeah. Well, that was the wild part too, is I started like right before you came in, I started getting text messages from like friends around the country and they're like, Cam's head's bleeding. And I'm like, what are you talking? And literally that moment, I'm like, holy shit, there he is, you know?

• 28:46Speaker 02

  Yeah. Happens quick, but um, yeah, I mean, just, just to reiterate, when shit like that happens, I think, and we've all discussed this, but the importance of crew is like, like I said, I mean, it can't just be a regular person. You, you gotta have people that, you know, like if a medic shows up on a scene and somebody's got a knife through their chest, like, they're not going to scream and be like, you're gonna die. Yeah. They're gonna stay calm and be like, hey, you're all right? You're all right? We'll get this taken care of. Whether they, whether they believe that or not. It's just important for the situation. And then, you know, for me, and again, I'm, I'm bad with like, I've got things in my head that I know, and I needed to transfer them to Eric and maybe I, I didn't do that, so that's on me.

• 29:30Speaker 02

  But like the fact that you fell and then you made it all the way down to Crown King afterwards, you're not pulling the plug when you sit down in that chair. If you were able to make that seven more miles or six more miles after the fall, you're going to at least make another six miles coming out of the aid station. So there is no giving up in the chair. You're going to die on your sword out there and that's, that's just what it is. And as a crew member, you kind of have to understand that. You know, I, I understand that, but again, I don't know if I transferred that to anybody.

• 29:56Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 29:57Speaker 02

  But I mean, you you picked up on it. It's like, no, it's he's gonna keep going.

• 30:00Speaker 01

  I said, you gotta stay positive and you gotta not take anything personal and just know like, hey, this is our job is to get this guy going. And and you want to go and you have the mindset to do it. So it's like, get you out of there as best we can. And at that point, I was like, okay, this next aid station is. We are gonna be dialed in.

• 30:15Speaker 02

  The meter changed, did a one eighty after that.

• 30:18Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:18Speaker 01

  I was just like, I don't care.

• 30:19Cameron Hanes?

  That's why you're a crew chief now.

• 30:20Speaker 01

  I was like, we're gonna be there eight hours early with, I'm gonna have the paramedics.

• 30:24Speaker 02

  Like, I don't care if I don't eat for the next couple of days, as long as Cam has what he needs at that next aid station.

• 30:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 30:28Speaker 01

  This is this ain't vacation.

• 30:30Speaker 02

  But yeah, so we so we got you up, got you checked in and got you on your way. Um, again, as you were leaving, you looked back at me and you said your eyes, you could still couldn't see, they were still jumping around.

• 30:42Speaker 01

  I think a cool thing, though, like before you left, you obviously got up, got going. You know, you had all these kids and stuff there that want to see you and and that's what I've noticed, you know, really getting to spend time with you on this trip when I've never like, you know, I know you, but like getting to be around you is like. You have, no matter what the situation, you have such a good demeanor to people that, you know, follow you, kids, inspiration, like. You always take a photo with people, you always, even in the most stressful situations like that, it's like, you're there high fiving kids and stuff. And it's like, that's just from a person from the outside looking in. It's like, it's such a cool thing. Cause like, I mean, that made those kids day, year, whatever it is, like you made a difference. It's super cool.

• 31:17Cameron Hanes?

  Uh, well. I mean. They don't know that I'm hurting.

• 31:23Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 31:23Cameron Hanes?

  So it's not, it's not fair to them to, and I I didn't even, I was out of it. I didn't really see them, but Billy Yang was standing there and he's like, hey, hey, he goes, Cam, Cam, you got some fans there. And I so I turned around, but without him, I might have missed him. But, uh, it's, yeah, it's not about, it's not all about me in those moments.

• 31:48Cameron Hanes?

  So.

• 31:48Speaker 01

  And I wonder, like, there's little things like that in that moment, like, do those kids, do you feel motivation from that? Like, being in that moment with like those kids high fiving, and it's like, okay, I gotta get on my, you know, get on my horse and get going.

• 32:01Cameron Hanes?

  No, I mean, I feel pressure anyway.

• 32:04Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:04Cameron Hanes?

  You know, so, uh, it is, it's a reminder that people care.

• 32:09Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:09Cameron Hanes?

  And sometimes that's good because you can get in your head out there and you feel like, depending on, on where you're at, like in this, there's a lot of ups and downs. If you're in a low, a low spot, you can think, nobody cares. And in fact, people want you to fail.

• 32:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 32:28Cameron Hanes?

  And so, like, little moments like that can mean a lot.

• 32:33Speaker 01

  Yeah, it was awesome.

• 32:34Speaker 02

  I, I want to ask you, and this is more into the ethos of it, but it's like, you know, you, obviously you started all this because of bow hunting. But secondary to that, you just said, like, you know, it's bigger than you. It's just, it's not all about you. So you have these kids that are inspired. You know, you, you, you DNF, but to me, the way you've handled it, talked about it, been open about it, that's helping people.

• 32:56Speaker 01

  Super cool.

• 32:57Speaker 02

  So if that's the secondary part of why you do all this, how could that be considered a failure? You know, if, if you're the person that has to bear that shield,

• 33:09Speaker 02

  it might be a terrible walk for you to take, but if you're helping people, that to me is still a win.

• 33:15Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:15Speaker 02

  You know, I mean, I told you afterwards, it's like, you're the guy that's like, you're this tough. You got the mindset that's like, just push through it, be tough, grind it out. This to me is just as much of a, a situation for you to grind out than all the physical ones. It's just different, maybe different than what you're used to. The mental side can sometimes be the toughest. But again, I think that mindset can still help during a situation like this, you know?

• 33:41Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 33:44Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not used to failing.

• 33:46Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 33:48Cameron Hanes?

  I work, you know, I, I work really hard to avoid failing, avoid DNFs, avoid

• 33:56Cameron Hanes?

  whatever, I'm not great at it. Um, I'm not great at dealing with it. Uh, I'm trying to get better. I'm trying to get, you know, I don't know.

• 34:09Speaker 02

  I

• 34:10Cameron Hanes?

  Ultra's been, you know, some of the Ultra community, I'm, I'm not welcome.

• 34:17Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 34:18Cameron Hanes?

  So.

• 34:20Speaker 01

  But you know, the same thing too, you said, which I think was a cool thing about this community and experience is like, when you gave that interview the day before you went out there to race and you said, you're like, hey, it's how cool is it that we're here with this group of people, no matter religion, race, all that stuff. It all goes out the window. We're all people and we're all enjoying this and like coming together and it's like, I don't know, that, that atmosphere and like experiencing that and like, so you talk about like, there's just what a cool, cool thing to be a part of.

• 34:50Speaker 02

  I mean, Sean Strickland said something similar after his fight was like, you know, he realizes that Shumayev has a family, has a country, people that all look up to him. And that kind of gets to him because it's like, he's fighting for the same things that Sean's fighting for. And after you go to war with somebody, you, you can't help but have respect for him.

• 35:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 35:10Speaker 02

  And I feel like a similar thing happens.

• 35:12Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, definitely with the competitors out there.

• 35:14Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 35:15Cameron Hanes?

  There is a bond with, you know, the runners. Um, it's mostly, I guess.

• 35:23Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. It's a,

• 35:27Cameron Hanes?

  for me, I can't speak for anybody else, but for me, when I talked about in the interview before we did with, uh, Mountain Outpost, I think, and, um,

• 35:37Cameron Hanes?

  You know, I just said this like the ultra is so special because we can line up with our heroes. The same star line, right? You can't go and go through the layup line with LeBron James or Kobe Bryant, or you know, we can be fans, but we're separated. Yeah. And ultra, you can be a fan and you're right there with these legends, right? And maybe down the road, you know, and we'll talk about this later with, you know, aging athletes and things like that and different supplements that people might take. But uh, I'm sure we'll talk about that, but it's a, it might, that might change down the road. It might change to where it's like the Olympics where maybe it's only the elites. And I, I think that ultra is really going to lose something special if that happens.

• 36:20Cameron Hanes?

  It might with the growth of the sport, that might be a reality. But for right now, we have the icons, say, you know, we got Rachel Killian who both won. They're in their thirties and you got 70 year old people on the same star line. Or I'm almost 60 and it's like, that is how special is that, right? And the, the challenge with that is that, you know, if you have Olympic style testing to, to like for Olympics, there's different rules. For if I, as I say, supplements for like a younger athlete doesn't need much. They're 20 and 30 years old, their bodies in the, in their prime. A 70 year old, 60 year old like me, our bodies deteriorate.

• 37:04Cameron Hanes?

  So sometimes like if we talk about like these Olympic drug testing standards, things like that, it's just not going to work for the whole field. Yeah. It's just, it's not realistic. Older athletes are aging. They need things that might be banned for Olympic athletes. And that's, that's just the way it goes. We're not there yet, but I'm going to talk about it because I have, do I have something to lose? Probably. People can take whatever they want from me. I, I'm playing with house money. I already won. Okay. So if I got to die on my sword on this thing for somebody else or to prove a point, I'm, I'm willing to, but I'll be the old athlete that still wants to line up with the elites, knowing I'm not going to win.

• 37:49Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not going to, I'm not going to be on a podium, but I want to run. And for me, it's like,

• 38:07Cameron Hanes?

  You know,

• 38:13Cameron Hanes?

  you know, when I can run and with these people, it's like I feel alive.

• 38:21Cameron Hanes?

  I've, I've run with some of the best athletes in the world.

• 38:26Cameron Hanes?

  As almost 60 years old, it's like for me, it's

• 38:33Cameron Hanes?

  my body's

• 38:38Cameron Hanes?

  it's old, it's hurt, but my heart is strong, my brain is strong, my eyes see. And when I'm running with Courtney and I see her ponytail bouncing, or I'm running with Rachel and I see her turn back and smile, or with Cole Hocker, Matt Centrowitz, gold medal winners. I ran with Killian Corr, I've run with Michael McKnight, all the legends as an old man and

• 39:13Cameron Hanes?

  that is, it's all, it's all I want to do. So how can I get this, this broke body to take my heart and soul to experience that with, with those legends? If I'm, if I'm hurt, my foot's broke and I'm trying to avoid surgery by alternative medicine and taking a peptide, hopefully like last year, I took a peptide to help me heal without surgery and it allows me to experience those moments with these incredible runners. I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. I don't, I don't give a fuck what anybody thinks. I'm not making the Olympics. I'm not, I'm not winning money.

• 39:54Cameron Hanes?

  I'm an old bow hunter who has this opportunity to push and test my body and share maybe my, like all I wanted to do in this race was run, catch up with those, you know, we were close to Browning when my brain and feet just wouldn't work. And Courtney was four miles up. All I wanted to do, all I've tried to do my entire alternating career is run with Courtney.

• 40:20Cameron Hanes?

  And I haven't been able to.

• 40:25Cameron Hanes?

  I can in training and I tell people like they say, what do you train for? How are you feeling? I'm like, I'm not training for a race. I'm training to run with Courtney, just so she doesn't have to wait for me because I just want to share those special moments. And so, um, I just want to be healthy. And like when I, I'm telling you, I'm a freaking pussy right now, but I don't know if it's from hitting my head, but whatever. All I know is, um,

• 41:04Cameron Hanes?

  yeah, I mean, I was feeling strong and I started to get sick. And I told Verstij that, uh, I said, I think I need some calories. So I said, I'll catch up because we wanted to run together. I really wanted to go with him. He knows the course so well because he lives there, but I said, I'll catch up with you. So I tried to get some calories in, I puked. Um, and I thought, I just told myself, um, I was probably just too much sugar.

• 41:41Cameron Hanes?

  So I think I tried a honey steager, some, something, puked.

• 41:57Cameron Hanes?

  I just couldn't.

• 42:01Cameron Hanes?

  I couldn't run.

• 42:07Cameron Hanes?

  You know, I've been, been running for 50 years and over 50 and I just couldn't. And, uh,

• 42:15Cameron Hanes?

  I wanted to catch up. I wanted to see, I wanted to catch up with Michael. I wanted to see Browning. I wanted to see Courtney and I just kept falling. You know, I broke this.

• 42:29Cameron Hanes?

  Got a surgery on that, dislocated this, got it back in, you know, my shoulder and I just was,

• 42:42Cameron Hanes?

  just was laying there.

• 42:53Cameron Hanes?

  I just hit my head. Like what?

• 43:02Cameron Hanes?

  You know, I had to. It felt good. I wanted to suffer.

• 43:09Cameron Hanes?

  It's more suffering.

• 43:12Cameron Hanes?

  I just didn't get, didn't get. Didn't get what I wanted.

• 43:18Cameron Hanes?

  And it's hard. It's still hard.

• 43:22Cameron Hanes?

  So.

• 43:26Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Just made it to that next day's station and. Had to pull the plug.

• 43:32Speaker 02

  I think, you know, something that. Has hit home with me is, uh. People say, you know, they, they pray to.

• 43:44Speaker 02

  You know, uh. Stupid prayers. I wanna, I want a million dollars. Bring me a million dollars or, you know, I wanna, I want a great body. I wanna be ripped.

• 43:56Speaker 02

  But instead. The prayer needs to be. Make me the person, you know, that, that works out every day. Make me the person that wants to be. Healthy. Uh, make me the person that works hard. And for you. You know. You wanted to suffer. So a prayer for suffering and sometimes I think that gets answered in a way we don't want, but maybe it's a way we need. And I think for me. Having never seen, you know. You. DNF like this before. Um, I can't help but think. On the backside of all this pain.

• 44:37Speaker 02

  Once you figure out how to handle this. How free will you feel? You know, to, to run without that weight on your shoulders. Um, you and I have spent a lot of, a lot of hard time together, especially on hunts. And the pressure that. Is built up onto your back that you carry on your shoulders.

• 44:57Speaker 02

  You know, we talked about it. It's like after that hunting season, I was pissed because people would say must be nice. And I'm like, you guys have no idea. The amount of pressure that you carry. And to me, that pissed me off because I saw it.

• 45:11Speaker 02

  And so, you know, I can't help but but see this situation and think, man.

• 45:17Speaker 02

  What if Cam can come out on the other side of this and see that he is not defined by if he wins or loses, but he is defined as the person he is. And I think the person you are is like Eric was saying is like you turn around and you say hi to those those little girls. You give them a high five. You know, I told Eric before we went down there, he's gonna be pissed when he comes in the aid station, but I promise you when he leaves it, he will turn around and say, hey, good job. Thank you.

• 45:40Speaker 01

  Hey, give me a hey bud, you know?

• 45:42Speaker 02

  And and to me, that is what defines you, not. Whatever you want to call it, these so-called failures. It's not a failure. It's not even close to a failure in my mind. I don't think that makes it any easier, but. To me, it it does help me kind of grasp the situation.

• 46:03Speaker 02

  I I I don't know. I don't. I don't. I really don't look at it as a failure. I know it's hard and I know it sucks. I know how hard you work at these things. That's that's the other thing, too, is like. And people can call me, say I'm a honeypot or whatever, because I work for you and I lie or whatever. It's like. You guys, you don't get it.

• 46:21Speaker 01

  They have no idea. And getting to see the behind the scenes of you is.

• 46:25Speaker 02

  For me, I mean, you know, people joke is like, oh, James is the proof that being surrounded by greatness doesn't always amount to anything, but. I I promise you, I would have never run a 50K if I didn't come here to work for you. You know, I can count. There's too many rooms to count on both hands that I've been in that I have no business in being in, but that you graciously offered me an opportunity to be in those rooms. So I hate to see you being so hard on yourself. I know that's, you know, that's why you're successful, but. I I I think I think there's also a silver lining in it.

• 47:02Cameron Hanes?

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• 47:46Cameron Hanes?

  of the Joe Rogan Experience. Once you use stabilized glass, it's hard to go back. It gives you a real advantage when you're hunting big, open terrain. And here's the rare part. Optics companies almost never offer discounts, but Sig is giving listeners of this podcast 10% off. Just use code CAM at checkout. So if you're serious about glassing and want the same edge I've had the past couple of seasons, head to sigsauer.com, grab a pair of Zulu binos, and use code CAM for 10% off. Sig Sauer Zulu Binoculars. See more, miss less, keep hammering. Out in the mountains, there's no room for weak gear.

• 48:26Cameron Hanes?

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• 49:11Cameron Hanes?

  Again, keep hammering, one word for 20% off. Don't roll with weak gear. Go Grizzly.

• 49:19Speaker 02

  But I will say, you know, coming out of that aid station, when you were on the road, you were throwing down some insane miles. And we all were like, holy shit, you know? I, we were all saying, you're not human. I mean, because I've seen you get pissed and run and it's like, holy, he is on a tear. You know, I think, uh,

• 49:41Speaker 01

  Well, that was kind of the whole thing. We were all, we were all kind of debriefing afterwards and then we're like looking and we're like, I'm like, no, we gotta get back to our van and swap. Like, he's gonna beat me to Prescott and I've just made a promise that I will never let this man down again.

• 49:54Speaker 02

  You have his hamburgers.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  I had 20 hamburgers set up for the next spot, but like, we were ripping in the van, just looking at your time. James called me when I was driving, he's like, are you seeing this right now? I'm like, dude, this guy is like, not human.

• 50:07Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I was, I wanted to catch the, the legends.

• 50:13Cameron Hanes?

  Couldn't.

• 50:14Speaker 02

  Yeah, but I think that's, I think you're missing, you know? You're a legend. You know, and I think it's cool that you, you know, everybody has somebody they look up to. Um, but I don't know. I, I hope that you can eventually see the,

• 50:34Speaker 02

  the opportunity you were given to, teach people, you know? How to walk through these moments because, I mean, I'm not gonna speak for anybody, but Max has now had two really hard Cocaldonas and there's no doubt in my mind that, you know, he's looking to you for, how does Cam handle this? Um, and there's countless people that do that, so. I don't know, I, I'm, I'm looking to you. I'm learning, I'm learning from you and how you handle a situation like this. Um, I don't know.

• 51:05Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 51:05Speaker 02

  It's hard, but.

• 51:07Cameron Hanes?

  I feel bad for Max. He's got so much talent and just these races, these multi-day races are,

• 51:17Cameron Hanes?

  they're, I don't know what they are. I don't know what they are. They're, I mean, I, I saw this like elite ultra runner saying like, these aren't even like, shouldn't be counted as ultra races because they're not even running or, so it's like, even people in the space don't even get it, you know? And.

• 51:36Cameron Hanes?

  It's there. I don't know what they are. They're a journey and experience, a personal

• 51:44Cameron Hanes?

  awakening in some way and a race because it's a race. There's a winner. There's but it's like if I just, I mean, this changes people's lives, you know? I mean, if you think of, so you see Rachel, she came in 56 hours. It's everywhere. It's ESPN, ABC. She's getting all the flowers and it's incredible. And then you see the very last person come in, Wayne A- A- Mo. And same race, first and last, days and days apart, you know, five and a half days and she

• 52:25Cameron Hanes?

  was like two and a half days, whatever it was. But the, what he, his experience in that race, people will be talking about for the rest of his life. So that's to me, that's what I want to try to protect. When I say I'll, I'll take the fall for this, you know, if we talk about this, you know, if these guys are on TRT or taking a peptide or whatever, if, if it protects and allows people like Wayne A- Mo, you know, I don't, I don't know what, but I'm just, he's older, he's 57. So he's, he's close to my age. And I don't want to take the opportunity to, to experience races like Cocodona away from people like him just because we want to protect

• 53:09Cameron Hanes?

  this elite field, right? Or this elite competition because it is about them. Yes, it is. And I, I love all them and I respect them and I want them to, to be successful. But it's about so much more than that, too. And I want to also honor and respect that. So it's, it's just incredible what this race offers.

• 53:28Speaker 02

  I, I have two main thoughts about that and we might as well get into it now, but it's, there's two things. So one would be the people that, you know, want to test. My question would be why? And, and if you can answer that, then why aren't we testing local marathons, local races, everybody, right?

• 53:47Speaker 02

  And then my second question would be, what do the elites of these races think? And what is their take on it? And to me, I think there would be a very clear answer.

• 54:01Cameron Hanes?

  I'm not sure. I mean, you know, the guy who, so I'll just say, I'm trying, there's somebody trying to cancel me. There's people, you know, there's people trying to cancel me in hunting, too. I mean, it's just the way it goes. It's and and let me say this, too. I got to get this out. I'm not complaining. I've been so blessed and so lucky with these opportunities, even to race Coca Dona. I've been welcomed there. I can't complain. Yes, people don't like me. Part of, part of that is my fault. I put pressure on people to make a decision. I, like I said, I call people pussies. I say they're fucked, whatever. It makes people either I love them or I hate them. So it's my fault.

• 54:46Cameron Hanes?

  I, you know, I can't sit here and say I'm a victim. I'm not a victim. I'm, I'm blessed. I'm lucky. And so, but whatever. So this, this guy's trying to cancel me. And let me just say something. I'm not going to say anything bad about anyone.

• 55:02Cameron Hanes?

  This guy doesn't like me. So, um, but he didn't like me before any of this because we're just different. Where he's liberal, vegan, whatever. Fine, I don't give a.

• 55:16Cameron Hanes?

  But that was enough for him to start talking shit about me years ago and talk shit about my son. So he doesn't like my family. And now it's just like, if he gets a reason, then he can run with it. Right? So I'm not a liar. I say, I've said many times what I, what I've done, what I've, you know, I've like, he has this old post from 15 years ago, some over the counter supplements that I use from GNC because I was just trying to, trying to, hey, let's get big. Legal, over the counter, whatever, probably not legal for Olympic style testing, but I'm not a fucking Olympian, right? So anyway, has this thing from 15 years ago still on my website? I don't, I'm not hiding anything.

• 56:00Cameron Hanes?

  I've said I go to ways to well, I've got stem cells. I said I tried to, you know, the peptides in my, to fix my broken foot instead of surgery. I've been very open about everything. I've tried, back in the day, there was like some deer ant war spray. I mean, and that was supposed to somehow make you more muscular.

• 56:18Speaker 02

  Straight off the boat from China.

• 56:21Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, none of that shit actually works, but you sprayed on your tongue, so.

• 56:26Speaker 02

  I did have a boner that lasted for three years.

• 56:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, so I mean, I've tried, I mean, all legal and like even, even in this case, like this peptide or whatever, or the TR, I'll just say something about TRT. I know like half, probably half the feels on it out there because it's an aging and the women need estrogen, men need testosterone, women might need testosterone, but whatever. It's like, hey, if they're healthy and they can experience a life-changing event, I'm down. These people are winning shit. Anyway, um, it's a.

• 57:03Speaker 01

  I also feel like people really underestimate, at the end of the day, you still have to go run 256 miles. It doesn't matter. You could give me everything you want and I ain't taking it, you know, 80 miles.

• 57:14Speaker 02

  I just, I really don't get the, the why, because why hasn't he picked on anybody else that's finishing in the, in the same, you know?

• 57:22Cameron Hanes?

  It's just, it's just my family. He just doesn't like us.

• 57:25Speaker 02

  Exactly, which to me, it just basically, I mean, makes the argument invalid.

• 57:31Cameron Hanes?

  Now, there's an argument, but here's what I'll say. So he was elite. I mean, he's a little older now, but I, I will say, I, I, when I looked up his Wikipedia today, great runner, freaking stud, way better than me, way better. I mean, I, not even in the, I'm not. Okay, why he goes after me? I'm old and like he, he calls Truett slow. So if Truett's slow, Tru ran 225, 220, whatever, 229 at CIM. I ran a 239 at Eugene. If Truett's slow, why are you even talking about me? I'm some old man that's 10 minutes slower than that. So, but here's what I'll know about elites,

• 58:14Cameron Hanes?

  or what I'll say about elites. If you're going for the Olympics, like some of the worst tragedies, I think, are like women who compete clean. Sometimes these other countries aren't clean, and they don't figure it out for like 12 years. They miss their opportunity on the podium to get recognized, you know, with an Olympic medal. And 12 years later, oh yeah, here, the other people that beat you pop hot, here's your medal. That sucks. Okay, I don't want that. I want, I do want the Olympics to be clean. I want everybody to be on a level playing field. I don't know if it ever can be, but that's what I want. So that's where this guy's coming from because that's his

• 58:53Cameron Hanes?

  background, which I totally get and respect. I'm on board. Okay, he's around 40. Tell me what you think when you get to be 60. Okay. And I was listening to like even this track podcast, they're talking about me and all this shit. And they're saying something like, you know, it obviously is different. They're saying that's kind of different for elites as opposed to somebody, you know, a hobby jogger is what I am, you know, I'm slow. So it's different. But they were saying like, well, don't, don't say that, you know, keep hammering and you know, just got to work harder and quit

• 59:32Cameron Hanes?

  being a pussy and then, you know, take peptide. There's like, just get some more rest and eat better. I'm like, oh, sleep a little longer. All of a sudden, I'm gonna, I'm 60, but I'm gonna feel like I'm 25 because I got an extra hour of sleep. What the are you talking about? Do you know what an aging athlete goes through? No, because you haven't done it. You're 30.

• 59:54Speaker 02

  And also, what does that have to do with the mindset? It doesn't. It's like, oh, all of that hard work doesn't count because you took a peptide?

• 1:00:04Cameron Hanes?

  A peptide, I was like, God. And, oh, I asked, so when I took that peptide for my foot, I was like, I used to like deer nail or spray. I don't give a take. Oh, this makes me bigger? Cool. I'll try it. But now I'm not like that. So I asked, like last year when I was going, trying to figure out my foot, because they were saying it was going to be two surgeries. And also, they're saying that there's no guarantee my foot's going to be exactly the same afterwards. You know, it's like, and I have good running form. I don't want to fuck up anything. I can, I can run. So I'm like, I'm going to be out for weeks with this surgery and it might not ever be the same. If I can just deal with pain, I can run on it right now. I didn't miss a fuck.

• 1:00:48Cameron Hanes?

  I had a broken foot the whole time. I had a broken foot for a year that hurt every step I took. But to me, it was better to be able to protect my ability to run as opposed to who knows what for being off six weeks and it might not be the same. So I'm like, no, I'm gonna, I'm not Olympian. I'm a old man. If this shit might work and save me from surgery, I'm gonna try it. Why wouldn't I? What the fuck? I don't have USA on my jersey. I'm not, I'm not even on, I've never been on Track Club. I've never ran a marathon to S32. What are we talking about with this WADA testing and all this shit? So anyway, I asked about this, I asked about peptides back in the day. And I said,

• 1:01:31Cameron Hanes?

  because one of the things that the guy who's trying to get me canceled is saying is like, these peptides, they don't know, they haven't tested on humans, so they could be dangerous. Right? And I'm like, so I asked, you know, my guy about, this is a year ago, but that's what this, this guy who's trying to cancel me is saying right now. And that's a rings a little hollow because he also took the vaccine.

• 1:02:01Cameron Hanes?

  And got maybe he was in emerg- I'm glad he didn't die, but he had a serious medical event after that. So you took a vaccine that almost killed you, or could have killed you, prob- maybe it was related, and they didn't test vaccines on anybody. They just made it mandatory. And you fuck it.

• 1:02:22Speaker 02

  And peddled it.

• 1:02:23Cameron Hanes?

  And peddled it. And because, and that's like the liberal, the, um, the woke liberal vegan, they do what they're told, right? I don't. People like me, oh, wait, you're telling me to do something? How about fuck off?

• 1:02:40Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:02:40Cameron Hanes?

  I don't like people telling me what to do. I didn't take it. So I'm glad he's healthy, but don't use the safety because it hasn't been tested on a peptide that's not gonna fuck kill anybody. When you took a vaccine that killed many people, no questions asked, and you had to pay the price, which I'm, again, I'm glad you're okay. But that argument rings hollow, as I said. So, anyway, I, um, I asked about a year ago about this, and it says there's currently zero human data showing BPC causes cancer. People say that because BPC may help promote angiogenesis, which is literally just a body forming new

• 1:03:22Cameron Hanes?

  blood vessels as part of healing and recovery. If we're gonna use that logic, then exercise causes cancer too, because exercise also promotes angiogenesis. The real conversation, you know, whatever. So, anyway, point is, um, there hasn't been a lot of tests. It is a newer peptide. People, whether it works or not, I don't know. I didn't have surgery. Um, I don't know if it helped me, but I didn't have to have the two surgeries. So, um,

• 1:03:55Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, point is, it's like, I'm gonna try that because I have no reason not to. I'm not, like I said, I'm not a professional elite athlete.

• 1:04:04Speaker 02

  I, I, I really, I don't even get why this is necessary because if I took BPC 157, I don't because I'm a purist and my body is my temple. I would take it tomorrow.

• 1:04:17Cameron Hanes?

  Well, it's got, it's got like a two hour half life. So the shit is not around very long.

• 1:04:22Speaker 02

  No, that's really quick.

• 1:04:24Cameron Hanes?

  Either way, it's like, I don't know. If it does anything, it better do it quick.

• 1:04:27Speaker 02

  Yeah. But i- if I took it and I sit here and I claim to take it.

• 1:04:33Speaker 02

  I mean, are, are, are we gonna grill me as much? Or is it just because you have a lot of success? And some people are jealous of that. Or, I mean, you could go the route of like, okay, you have a lot of ears, social media, people look up to you, but not once have you ever been like, I take this, you guys should take this and here's my, here's like, I'm gonna make a million dollars.

• 1:04:55Cameron Hanes?

  Whatever.

• 1:04:56Speaker 02

  It's like, it's like, no, you just say, you're just honest. I take it. This is what, hopefully it helps. I don't know. I'm not really sure if it's helping or whatever. So I don't get why you even have to answer for this. I, I'm honestly dumbfounded.

• 1:05:12Cameron Hanes?

  It's, I mean, again, I'm not gonna complain, but I have a name. I'm a target out there. When he mentions me, there's, he gets more play on his, on his website or Instagram, whatever the I saw he was on a podcast talking about it already. So it's like, it's good for business for him.

• 1:05:33Speaker 02

  Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But, but he'll never admit that, you know?

• 1:05:38Cameron Hanes?

  I mean,

• 1:05:41Cameron Hanes?

  I, it all started because he just doesn't like me and Truitt.

• 1:05:46Speaker 02

  Exactly.

• 1:05:47Cameron Hanes?

  So everything else is, you, you can say whatever reason beyond that.

• 1:05:52Speaker 02

  And you've never, you've never met this guy?

• 1:05:53Cameron Hanes?

  No, I don't know.

• 1:05:54Speaker 02

  See? Yeah.

• 1:05:55Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. It's, you know, it's a

• 1:06:00Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, and also the thing is too, if I wouldn't have ran a 239 at Eugene, if I'd ran a three hour, nobody'd give a. It was just because that time was so good and it was kind of close to his time. You know, his recent time and I'm old and he's not, and he's elite and I'm not, I'm a bow hunter and some redneck dipshit and maybe that makes him feel whatever. I, I, I don't know. I can't get into people's head. Again, I'm not going to complain. It's just the way it goes. I'm a target. I understand that. I've been a target for a long time and that's never going to change. Until they can take me out, it's going, I'm going to have people talking shit.

• 1:06:42Speaker 02

  Yeah, which I don't know. That, that sucks. I get so tired of seeing shit like that.

• 1:06:49Cameron Hanes?

  It's just the nature of the business. It's like, I'm in, I'm in very competitive. Hunting is very competitive, lots of egos. Running is the same and.

• 1:07:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:03Speaker 02

  I don't know. I mean, obviously with shit talkers, we do a fair amount of shit talking, but it's all love, number one.

• 1:07:10Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:11Speaker 02

  You know, number two, it's like, okay, let's take the buff runner, for example, you know, we questioned his 15 day, 1,000 miles. I mean, he finished it and it's insanely impressive and I left a comment and I messaged back and forth with him. I mean, we're good, you know, it's not like we're just going out there and talking actual shit about these people ruining their careers. Like, no, it's.

• 1:07:34Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:07:34Speaker 02

  It's, you know, so I don't, I don't get that. Um, I don't even know why anybody, it's gotten traction, to be honest, but.

• 1:07:45Cameron Hanes?

  People love negativity and drama. I mean, so like I said, I can't, it's not going to go away. I'm, I'm, all I'm going to do is be honest about it. I've been honest. Anytime anybody asks me anything, I don't lie. I don't, I, I, I don't have anything to hide. So again, I'm an aging athlete. I'm trying to, you know, as I said, my dad died when he was 62. I'm not that far from it. So if I can do anything possible to continue to live the life I dream of, running in the mounds, I'm going to. If it knocks me out of the Olympics.

• 1:08:27Cameron Hanes?

  Ah, shoot.

• 1:08:27Speaker 02

  Shoot.

• 1:08:28Cameron Hanes?

  Dang it. I mean.

• 1:08:31Speaker 02

  And I guess in his world, you know, he would prefer that you aren't healthy. You know, you're not doing everything to optimize your body.

• 1:08:38Cameron Hanes?

  Did he want me to get surgery and my running be over? Would that be better?

• 1:08:44Speaker 02

  I guess when you, you know, get older, you should just kind of be frail and be afraid to walk outside and have to use a walker and.

• 1:08:50Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, these, I don't know. It's like, uh, these races are, uh,

• 1:09:00Cameron Hanes?

  I think the superpower on the races, to tell you the truth, is estrogen. I mean, these women are so good at these multi-day. I gotta, I gotta say like, if you look at the finish line, and I think estrogen actually is, I wouldn't be surprised, this is gonna sound crazy, if some, if some of the elites, if they wanted to, to do something crazy, took estrogen. Cause that shit, I'm talking about men. You look at the women and maybe it's, I don't know if it's like, uh, but I don't know if it's body size, uh, efficiency, but you look at Rachel,

• 1:09:40Cameron Hanes?

  Courtney, um, Meg Eckert was third, how they came in compared to the, the guys. The guys are like zombies, night of the living dead. The women come in, Rachel comes in sprinting. So these women, whatever it is, they are so, I, it's a weird sample size, one race, but I've thought this for a long time, that women are the superior athlete at multi-day. And I think they're showing that and it's incredible and I love it. I love this. Um, and, and oh, I want to say one other thing too about, you know, I, I mentioned, um, you know, the guy turned to cancel me. He's liberal and woke and all this stuff.

• 1:10:22Cameron Hanes?

  I'm great friends with people that feel exactly like him. The like the girls that I love are very liberal liberal and just ultra running freaks and I'm I'm not best friends with them. I mean, I'm their best friend. They're like, they're my best friend. I'm probably not theirs, but I love them. So I don't give a about your politics. I don't care what you eat. I mean, I had this, I got this girl coming on Aaron Tone. She's such a freak. And I think she did the Nolan's 14 in high heels.

• 1:11:00Speaker 02

  That's disgusting.

• 1:11:01Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, she is incredible. But she said, Hey, I'm a plant based athlete. Just don't really get hunting. I'm like, I said, Hey, you're a badass.

• 1:11:09Speaker 02

  That's awesome.

• 1:11:10Cameron Hanes?

  I go, I said, I don't care what you eat. I said, I love badasses.

• 1:11:14Speaker 02

  And even more past that is you like to show people that don't understand hunting about it.

• 1:11:20Cameron Hanes?

  I'm all about it. So I don't know this, this tribalism, they, they, you know, and what negativity and gotcha and these posts just talking shit. It's just like,

• 1:11:36Cameron Hanes?

  I hate, I just hate that part of it because it's such a beautiful. And then they might say, I'm toxic and I'm the problem. And if I could be out of the sport, the sport would be better. And maybe they're right.

• 1:11:46Speaker 02

  Yeah, I mean, about the estrogen thing, if if I show up to my next ultra with tits, mind your business. I do.

• 1:11:53Cameron Hanes?

  I looked up estrogen like.

• 1:11:56Speaker 02

  Maybe someone needs to fact check me, but I believe women have more testosterone than men. They just also have estrogen.

• 1:12:02Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, really?

• 1:12:03Speaker 02

  I think so.

• 1:12:04Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I, I mean, here's what I know. I don't take testosterone. I don't think it helps me to in ultras.

• 1:12:13Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:14Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, I think you run hotter. I think you are, you, you burn more calories.

• 1:12:23Cameron Hanes?

  I think your heart rate's up and I don't think it's an advantage.

• 1:12:27Speaker 02

  Everything you don't want in all.

• 1:12:28Cameron Hanes?

  On law, on multi-day.

• 1:12:30Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:12:31Cameron Hanes?

  If it's not speed and power and pushing it, which that's not what multi-day 200s are. I don't think I, I don't use it.

• 1:12:41Speaker 02

  That's very wrong, by the way. I was wrong.

• 1:12:43Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:12:44Speaker 02

  Men have 10 to 20 times more, but.

• 1:12:46Cameron Hanes?

  Oh.

• 1:12:47Speaker 02

  But they do obviously have testosterone too. So maybe it is estrogen.

• 1:12:50Cameron Hanes?

  Well, I want to, I can't find it now.

• 1:12:52Speaker 02

  I mean, women have 10 to 20 times more than me, but your average man.

• 1:12:57Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Yeah. I don't, I don't know. I mean, I, it's just, it's kind of fascinating to think about and wonder about and.

• 1:13:06Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Estrogen tends to increase fat oxidation and spare glycogen and long duration efforts that can improve efficiency and delay fatigue. I'm telling you, estrogen, recover, it may reduce muscle damage and inflammation after endurance training. And that's what you see at the end of these races. They're not damaged like they, like the men.

• 1:13:28Speaker 02

  That's interesting.

• 1:13:29Cameron Hanes?

  I know. I, I think their estrogen can improve blood vessel dilation and circulation in some people.

• 1:13:36Speaker 02

  It'd be interesting to see if someone did take it and I'm not saying someone should. Okay. So. Stop the doping claims, but if they did, if after the race, like if a male athlete took it, if after the race, his estrogen levels would drop.

• 1:13:49Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:13:49Speaker 02

  It would get used up and then he obviously comes off of it. Cause there are very real side effects of a man taking estrogen.

• 1:13:55Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:13:56Speaker 02

  I've just. Bolt ons next time.

• 1:13:58Cameron Hanes?

  I'm joking. I just, I just know that just for physical, mental health, for depression, getting your hormone. You know, your hormones change, you know, if you're 20 and 30 balls out.

• 1:14:11Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:14:11Cameron Hanes?

  Test it over a thousand, all good. When you get older or.

• 1:14:15Speaker 02

  For some people maybe.

• 1:14:17Cameron Hanes?

  Not throwing numbers out there. When you get older. Shit changes and you need, I mean, like I said, for mental health, sometimes you need testosterone and estrogen. I don't want to take that away from those people who want to get out there and enjoy the mountains at a, at a advanced age. And we shouldn't. It's not right.

• 1:14:34Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:14:34Cameron Hanes?

  This should be for everybody. It should be inclusive, right? And so if we're saying like, unless you're elite that can qualify under this Olympic drug testing standards, you're not invited. That's wrong. I don't agree. There's no, there's no reason for that.

• 1:14:47Speaker 02

  No.

• 1:14:48Cameron Hanes?

  If you want to just protect the elites and the, and the podiums and the money, great. Then do it for them.

• 1:14:54Speaker 02

  That sounds like a, a good compromise to me. Like it is done in every other sport ever is test the elites or put your name into the pot to say, hey, I want to be on the podium or I want to win money.

• 1:15:04Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:15:04Speaker 02

  You gotta subject yourself to testing.

• 1:15:06Cameron Hanes?

  And this, this guy's also saying like, I'm, it's not fair for age groupers because I took this peptide. If I win my age group, it's like, I don't give a about my age group. What are you talking about? I've never stayed around and got a, an award. Have you, you've been with me racist. Have I ever stayed around to get an age group award?

• 1:15:21Speaker 02

  Usually someone has to track you down and be like, hey, do you want this? And you're like,

• 1:15:24Cameron Hanes?

  No, and I don't care. I'm like, I'm running for myself. Okay. And people can say, oh, you're lying. You're full of shit. Okay. But I don't, I don't care. I mean, last year at Cocodona, I came in with Ryan Coontz and I said, go ahead, cross before me. I don't give a it's not about beating people for me. It's about the experience. It's about growing from that. It's about running with the little native boy that came, Orion who came with me and I just, it kills me that I didn't see him this year because I ENF'd and he was waiting for me. And it's like, that's what matters to me. Not my fuck time, my timer, my podium or, or,

• 1:16:09Cameron Hanes?

  I mean, what are you talking about?

• 1:16:11Speaker 02

  And, and if your time does matter, it's because you just want to best yourself. You just want to get better yourself. It has nothing to do with who you're racing against, you know? It's like, And again, even if it did, I still don't think it would matter.

• 1:16:23Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know.

• 1:16:24Speaker 02

  You know, unless you were like, hey, I want to run for the Olympic, which I would love for ultras to be in the Olympics.

• 1:16:29Cameron Hanes?

  Me too.

• 1:16:30Speaker 02

  Um, and if that's the case, then yeah, test the elites.

• 1:16:32Cameron Hanes?

  And, and if I ever did like an official masters, whatever, of course I would do everything perfect.

• 1:16:39Speaker 02

  Yeah.

• 1:16:39Cameron Hanes?

  And if you tested me now, I think you'd be surprised how shit my numbers are. It's like, it's not impressive. I think I usually after these races, I, I have a, I think I have a doctor's appointment scheduled. And I get labs just to see what my liver and kidneys do. Cause there's a lot of damage in these races from that. And I mean, you would not be, you would not be impressed.

• 1:17:00Speaker 02

  Well, I remember when we had Andy Galpin on and you had just had a blood panel done and he was like, yikes.

• 1:17:07Cameron Hanes?

  It's not good. I'm fucked. Oh, I'm, I'm just trying to do the best I can. It's like, I don't think people understand that's how I live. It's like, if somebody said,

• 1:17:19Cameron Hanes?

  if I was going to go run Piscata today, which I did, did two summers, it's beautiful over there. I loved it. They said, Hey, um, either you can go run Piscata, and after you do that's, you're dead, or you can live as long, you know, for years, but you can never run again. I'd be like, fucking see ya. I'm heading to the mountain. I mean, it's what I, it's what gives me life. And it's like, that's all I'm trying to protect. It's like, just let me live. And.

• 1:17:50Speaker 02

  Yeah. So it doesn't make any sense to me. I don't know. I, I really, I guess I'm dumb.

• 1:17:57Cameron Hanes?

  I think like, here's, it, it does mean that I don't, you know, I feel ostracized from hunting most of the time. Now I feel, I mean, there's a lot of people in ultra who do accept me.

• 1:18:15Cameron Hanes?

  But this was, it sucked to deal with and it's probably not over this, you know, he's, he's getting a lot of attention. So it's all, it's all good. But I did,

• 1:18:29Cameron Hanes?

  it means, it means a lot to me what like the people who I respect and looked up to think. So I did text some people before I went to the race and I just said, hey, listen, here's what's going on. Um, you know, I've, I got somebody that's trying to cancel me and get me out of the race. And, and I asked the people who I respect, they're legends in the sport. I said, you know, what do you think? And they, they felt like, you know, what you were saying. So it's like, no, come race. Yeah, come race. And it's like, so, but I, I do care. I mean, I'm trying to do the right thing. I'm not, I'm not trying to hide anything.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  I think that's important to highlight too, is, I mean, you texted people also because you didn't want it to be this big drama thing that's distracting from their performances.

• 1:19:19Cameron Hanes?

  I don't. No, they, they deserve the attention. And like I said, I just, if I can get, rub elbows with them and just gain from their, you know, their excellence in some way with the mindset or something, then I feel like I won. And I just, I just want that opportunity. And I feel like people are, want to take it from me or people like me.

• 1:19:43Speaker 02

  I guess. Um, well, we could talk a little bit about, uh, going forward.

• 1:19:53Cameron Hanes?

  Okay.

• 1:19:54Speaker 02

  About the excitement.

• 1:19:56Cameron Hanes?

  What?

• 1:19:57Speaker 02

  Of, you know, possibilities of, you know, next year or other races as Eric with Crew Chief.

• 1:20:03Cameron Hanes?

  Oh, I'll probably get canceled. But, uh, first of all, I gotta get surgery on this. I don't know if it's tomorrow, but, um, on that fall that I broke that and it pulled the ligament or ligament, pulled the bone off.

• 1:20:16Speaker 02

  You're gonna have to go lefty for a while.

• 1:20:17Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So I gotta, I gotta see, I gotta see, I mean, I got a bear hunt coming up. So we gotta get this shit figured out. But, um, for if I don't get canceled.

• 1:20:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I'm excited about the potential. I felt, so I ran sixty some miles and felt really good until I couldn't, my brain wouldn't work. But, and then, you know, with this marathon, finally had an actual marathon training block and I saw what I, what is capable there. Because here's another, this is part of also being an old, broken old man. But when I, if I do, I don't have goals really when I go in, but after I race and I'm like looking at the numbers and then I'm like, oh shit. So you, you get in there, you ask AI, oh, if I ran a two thirty-nine at fifty-eight, what could I have ran in my prime? And so they're saying like, you know, two eighteen to two twenty-two, which for me in my prime, two

• 1:21:19Cameron Hanes?

  eighteen, two twenty-two, that's Olympic trials. I would have made the Olympic trials. So it's like, it's like, it's just fun to play these games when you get these times back and just like, what does that mean? And so it did kind of pump me up for like, what if I actually did a, a true training block? Cause I didn't, I did a little bit more than I've ever done, but that makes me excited. If we can get this, this, the crew nailed down for these multi-days, um, and I'm fit and I'm healthy. Oh, man.

• 1:21:47Speaker 02

  Yeah. If you, if you hate to see it now, you're really gonna hate to see it next year. So get your thumbs ready.

• 1:21:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I would really like to cause the keyboard warriors a lot of issues next year.

• 1:21:59Speaker 02

  That'd be great. I think, I think that's what we'll do. So.

• 1:22:02Cameron Hanes?

  I don't know. I feel like a fuck, I don't know why I get emotional about this. I just like, and I don't know if it's because of what happened, but this shit means, I can't tell you what this means to me. This is, this is my life. It's like, it's not bow hunting. That's how I make my money and that's how I, that's what's driven me my, but I also run my whole life and these people, I just love these people in this community. And it's like, so when, when it feels like it's threatened.

• 1:22:33Cameron Hanes?

  When I'm not feeling like a pussy right now, I feel like I wanna

• 1:22:38Cameron Hanes?

  cause some damage.

• 1:22:41Speaker 02

  I, I like it. I like to see the highs and the lows.

• 1:22:44Cameron Hanes?

  It's real. I mean.

• 1:22:45Speaker 02

  That's, you know, gotta have the weather event and then some emotion.

• 1:22:49Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I guess.

• 1:22:50Speaker 02

  Adds to the story.

• 1:22:51Cameron Hanes?

  I guess.

• 1:22:52Speaker 02

  I personally would never cry. You know that.

• 1:22:54Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I know. I know you wouldn't.

• 1:22:56Speaker 02

  I've never cried.

• 1:22:57Cameron Hanes?

  I know, I know you wouldn't, but no, we got, we got big plans for next year. We might build a custom van and give it away afterwards. That was Eric's idea, I think. But no, if I can keep my body healthy and I feel really good right now, other than my legs are good. It's my, all this, where I got hurt falling so many times. But if I can stay healthy, oh shit dude, I think we can be on one next year.

• 1:23:21Speaker 01

  To see your mileage after you had the head injury and took off and those miles you were putting in with your noggin all bruised up is like, I mean, that's so inspiring to next year. Like, oh, what if he's in good shape?

• 1:23:32Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:32Speaker 01

  Like, what could he actually do?

• 1:23:33Cameron Hanes?

  I know.

• 1:23:34Speaker 01

  And not only he's in good shape, we know what we're doing.

• 1:23:36Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:36Speaker 01

  And it's like, he comes in and it's a pit stop. I mean, boom, boom, boom, everything's dialed out and we get you going. It's like, it could be, I mean, you look at the other teams and as I said, looking at that and I think there was just a YouTube video went on that Rachel put on showing like their process of how they did stuff and you're just like.

• 1:23:52Cameron Hanes?

  Was that precision?

• 1:23:53Speaker 01

  Yeah, you're like, they're so dialed in and it's like, I mean, can we take it even to the next, like, there's just, you're seeing that stuff.

• 1:23:59Cameron Hanes?

  She had a fuck scientist with her.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  They sit down and it's like she just puts her hands up, and boom, she's off. And you're like, if we could do that, man.

• 1:24:06Cameron Hanes?

  I love to see.

• 1:24:07Speaker 01

  This could be cool. It's an experiment, you know?

• 1:24:09Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, I love to see her do so well.

• 1:24:11Speaker 02

  Yeah, and I think, you know,

• 1:24:15Speaker 02

  we talked about it too, but you coming in, you running, we, I mean, we wanted to get to a point where you are the athlete, you're just running.

• 1:24:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Speaker 02

  That's all you gotta worry about and you're wasting no energy thinking about anything else because you know you're gonna come in, get what you need and, and get right back out.

• 1:24:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:29Speaker 02

  And I, you know, I think that's just fun. Whether people want to hate on it or not, who cares?

• 1:24:34Speaker 01

  Well, that's like we were saying, you know, when I originally came, I'm like, oh, vacations is gonna be fun. It's like, no. In these races, the fun is like getting you in, getting you out, like staying up all night, having those struggles, but like achieving. That's the fun, you know? And it's like, man, I want to do that next year. Like, I want to be right through this with them all the way and like, get it done right.

• 1:24:53Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:54Speaker 01

  Fuck, you know, if you can beat your time by X amount, it's like, what we did worked. Like, that all came together and that works. Shoot, maybe the next athletes that are top, like, they can take from this to better their times and just, it's like, what a transformation to this world that you could do and like, you have the ability to do that, which is so cool, because not a lot of people can.

• 1:25:10Speaker 02

  Eric's gonna be the first guy in Ultra to be like, uh, you know how like the pit chiefs, go to like different teams?

• 1:25:16Speaker 01

  Ricky Carbikol's mechanic, you know, that guy, Michael Essie.

• 1:25:19Speaker 02

  It's gonna be Eric for Ultras.

• 1:25:21Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, yeah, no, it's a lot of potential, a lot of excitement. It's just, I wish I could be more excited now. It's like, because I feel beat up, but with no completion. It's like, I like feeling beat up and like, ruined if I achieve my goal. So it feels, doesn't, it feels empty right now. I feel beat up without the, without the win. It's not, I'm not winning anything, but at the, the completion.

• 1:25:46Speaker 02

  Careful with that.

• 1:25:47Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah, no, we don't want to make anybody upset.

• 1:25:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, I don't know. I just think all that stuff, like, all this going on is a person from the outside that doesn't follow the running world and like, just knows you and all my friends, same thing. We love you for who you are and like, you DNFing and the possibility to come back is like, your story is what we follow, you know, we just, we all love that. All this peptide shit, like, I had no clue that was even going on. Majority of people not, not only don't know, don't care. Because we love Cam Haynes for who he is and the positivity he brings to the world is so much more than one dude thumbing away, you know?

• 1:26:22Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:22Speaker 01

  What, like, big whoop-de-doo.

• 1:26:25Cameron Hanes?

  And, and I, and I'm not, I'm not trying to, I'm just trying to be healthy. I'm not trying to like, win money. I'm not trying to like, take somebody's spot on a team. I'm not doing any of that shit.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  Nope.

• 1:26:36Speaker 02

  One thumb, thumb on his keyboard, the other one in his ass.

• 1:26:40Cameron Hanes?

  See, I'm not saying anything.

• 1:26:43Speaker 02

  Celebrity boxing match.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  I was, I was typing and then I, then I had time.

• 1:26:46Speaker 02

  Oh, yeah. I think you gotta say wada. I think you gotta say your joke.

• 1:26:51Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:26:52Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:52Cameron Hanes?

  No, I mean, it's.

• 1:26:56Speaker 02

  If he keeps going, I'll fuck it out. He has no idea what's coming.

• 1:27:00Cameron Hanes?

  It's fine. I mean, I, I, there's, you know,

• 1:27:05Cameron Hanes?

  not everybody's gonna love you. It doesn't matter who you are. And so it's, I mean, if, if I wasn't dealing with him, and be somebody else. And that's just the way it goes. All, all I can do is like be honest. Share my heart. And if that's not good enough for you, that I can't, I can't change it. I can't fix it. If for some reason I can't run because of, you know, whatever. I mean, okay. I mean, I can still, I can go run every day. I don't give a shit. I haven't, I haven't run a marathon in, I didn't even run one last year. So I like, it's been years and I, I do like one old, last year I did two ultra marathons, but

• 1:27:46Cameron Hanes?

  I haven't even been doing any. So it's like, you can't stop me from running. I'm gonna run. I just, you know, it's just weird. It's just, I, I don't know, I don't know why I'm such a threat, but that's the way it goes.

• 1:28:00Speaker 02

  Cause you tell it like it is, you know?

• 1:28:04Cameron Hanes?

  It's all good. Here's what I do know. I think, uh, we got somebody we're taking on our bear hunt.

• 1:28:11Speaker 02

  Really?

• 1:28:15Speaker 02

  Who? Really?

• 1:28:18Cameron Hanes?

  I can't, I don't want to-

• 1:28:19Speaker 02

  That quick of a turnaround?

• 1:28:20Cameron Hanes?

  I don't want to say on here.

• 1:28:22Speaker 02

  Yeah. That would be sick.

• 1:28:24Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. So anyway, stay tuned. Did we have anything else on the list?

• 1:28:27Speaker 02

  No, that was it.

• 1:28:28Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah.

• 1:28:29Speaker 02

  If Eric doesn't want to make his water joke.

• 1:28:31Cameron Hanes?

  I, I do want to say, um, props to, uh, Aravipa, Jamil, Corey, his whole team. What they're doing with Ultra is nuts, dude. It's, uh, they, they know how to put on a show. It's like the Super Bowl down there and the, and everyone is just wound up and excited. And it's, you know, these races are, it, it's not just all fun and games, you know, that we had a, a run or die. And it's terrible. And it's a terrible tragedy.

• 1:29:01Cameron Hanes?

  And I want to respect them and you know, I'm so sorry for their family and for their loss. I can't imagine. That was like a kind of a black cloud over the event, but aside from that, there's so much goodwill and love down there and to see, you know, there's a lot of people are critical of Wayne Amo coming in at the end too, but I saw an interview with him afterwards and he looked great. So much respect. I want to have him on the pod. I sent him a message or I commented and said, I'd love to talk to you about your race. So just being there and being part of that was just incredible and I got so

• 1:29:41Cameron Hanes?

  happy for their success. So what they're doing and providing this opportunity for ultra runners out there and it changes people's lives is so special. So I know they go, they're criticized as well. I mean, they're criticized for many different reasons and they have to weather a lot and they still, they do it with professionalism and you would never know it because the events just go off without a hitch.

• 1:30:08Speaker 01

  It was, it was so cool. Yeah. You know, and to see the live feed and stuff like they do this year. And you, you know, you'd mentioned this, the car was, I think it's so unlike any other sport is like you have so many different personalities, you know, you have you and old bow hunter running. You have Courtney, you have this, you know, short little blonde girl who's winning the whole thing. And it's just like, man, everyone kind of gets a favorite runner like can attach and to be able to live feed and over days like watch it. I mean, I was just checking the feed nonstop. It's like, this is so cool.

• 1:30:37Cameron Hanes?

  It is. It's, it's, it's pretty special. And then even just the day before, seeing everybody, that was so fun. Yeah. I mean, I probably shouldn't have been standing in the sun for hours.

• 1:30:47Speaker 01

  That's on me. You know, we'll get you. We should have had a fucking umbrella.

• 1:30:51Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah, it's, it's, it's special. I feel very lucky to be involved, you know, around my first ultra in 2005 and it's been, you know, 21 years of grinding, but I feel, feel like I could still get better. So that's exciting.

• 1:31:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's cool news.

• 1:31:09Cameron Hanes?

  But yeah. All right. Well, that's it. Thank, thank you guys. I mean, wanted to have you guys here. I appreciate everything you did down there and I'm excited for the future and I think we can kick some ass.

• 1:31:20Speaker 01

  For sure.

• 1:31:20Cameron Hanes?

  Yeah. Appreciate you guys.

• 1:31:22Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:31:23Cameron Hanes?

  All right. Keep hammering, guys.