Diet TBPN: November 3, 2025

Our favorite moments from today's show, in under 30 minutes. TBPN.com is made possible by: Ramp - https://ramp.com Figma - https://figma.com Vanta - https://vanta.com Linear - https://linear.app Eight Sleep - https://eightsleep.com/tbpn Wander - https://wander.com/tbpn Public - https://public.com AdQuick - https://adquick.com Bezel - https://getbezel.com Numeral - https://www.numeralhq.com Polymarket - https://polymarket.com Attio - https://attio.com/tbpn Fin - https://fin.ai/tbpn Graphite - https://graphite.dev Restream - https://restream.io Profound - https://tryprofound.com Julius AI - https://julius.ai turbopuffer - https://turbopuffer.com fal - https://fal.ai Privy - https://www.privy.io Cognition - https://cognition.ai Gemini - https://gemini.google.com Follow TBPN: https://TBPN.com https://x.com/tbpn https://open.spotify.com/show/2L6WMqY3GUPCGBD0dX6p00?si=674252d53acf4231 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/technology-brothers/id1772360235 https://www.youtube.com/tbpnLive

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00John Coogan?

  The timeline has been in turmoil over the Brad Gersner podcast with Satya Nadella and Sam Altman. The AI build out is so big, even a haunted house owner wants in. The co-owner of Pennsylvania's Pennhurst Asylum has big plans for a data center.

• 0:17Jordi Hays?

  He's like, we gotta get through Halloween and then I'm all in on AI.

• 0:21John Coogan?

  Halloween is-

• 0:21Jordi Hays?

  We gotta get through spooky season.

• 0:23John Coogan?

  I mean, that's basically what-

• 0:23Jordi Hays?

  Then I'm going all in. You ever been to a spirit Halloween like at like 6:00 PM on Halloween?

• 0:29John Coogan?

  No, is it packed?

• 0:30Jordi Hays?

  It's an absolute nightmare.

• 0:31John Coogan?

  Oh, it's probably crazy because people get last-

• 0:33Jordi Hays?

  Because they just let it get destroyed, basically. Like, the employees are just like, alright, it's basically over.

• 0:37John Coogan?

  It's over. We're just gonna pack up and leave tomorrow.

• 0:39Jordi Hays?

  It looks like a stampede of horses just running through it.

• 0:43John Coogan?

  Apparently haunted houses are converting into data centers. There are a number of Hollywood sound stages, studios that have been set up in Atlanta, I think she said? Georgia? And they're not monetizing well as studios, and so they're converting them into data centers. Trump hailed more than 92 billion in AI and energy deals from the likes of Blackstone and Brookfield during a visit to Pennsylvania this year. Many say there's too much money flooding in. The big value play is getting this ready for a hyperscaler to go vertical in less than a year.

• 1:16Jordi Hays?

  I've seen enough. He should stack based on his Halloween revenue.

• 1:19John Coogan?

  For sure.

• 1:20Jordi Hays?

  And then use that capital to, uh, to go all in.

• 1:24John Coogan?

  The timeline's going pretty crazy on the BG squared. He had Satya Nadella and, uh, Sam Altman on the show, and everyone is debating whether or not a $14 billion revenue company, OpenAI, can afford to pay 1.4 trillion. And Brad asked this question directly. It's kind of a crazy moment because a lot of people were saying like, well, he's an investor. This should be like the softest ball interview possible. A lot of journalists were like, how is this happening? Like, how is it that Sam Altman's like getting, it's like a harder interview with a direct investor than with a traditional media journalist?

• 1:58Jordi Hays?

  I don't think Brad meant, meant for it to be a tough question. The whole interview was a layup.

• 2:03John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 2:03Jordi Hays?

  Like Brad is, like you said, he's heavily aligned with OpenAI. This wasn't meant to be a gotcha. Sam just might have woken up in a bad mood that day because the answer that he gave was absolutely horrible.

• 2:14Speaker 02

  I think there's a lot of people who would love to buy OpenAI shares. I don't, I don't think you would want to sell.

• 2:18Jordi Hays?

  Including myself, including myself.

• 2:21Speaker 02

  Who talk with a lot of like breathless concern about our compute stuff or whatever, that would be thrilled to buy shares. So I think we, we could sell, you know, your shares or anybody else's to some of the people who are making the most noise on Twitter, whatever about this very quickly. We do plan for revenue to grow steeply.

• 2:35Speaker 02

  Step back.

• 2:36John Coogan?

  Yeah, the step back is, I don't know.

• 2:37Speaker 02

  Is growing steeply. We are taking a forward bet that it's going to continue to go.

• 2:40Jordi Hays?

  So pause, pause for a second.

• 2:42John Coogan?

  I was just listening to the audio and I was like, oh, like that's like a totally reasonable answer. But when you watch the video and you see the body language and you get into all that, I feel like that adds a whole extra layer.

• 2:50Jordi Hays?

  Issue is Sam, right when Sam got pressed, he went.

• 2:53John Coogan?

  See, you don't, you don't hear that on the audio. You don't hear that on the audio.

• 2:59John Coogan?

  And so you see what I'm saying? How like you can win in one medium, but lose in another.

• 3:03Jordi Hays?

  Anytime I don't like something you're saying, John, I'm just gonna go.

• 3:07John Coogan?

  Well, the, well, the audio listeners won't know.

• 3:08Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 3:09John Coogan?

  Won't know. And the timeline was also fixating on this fact that, uh, at, at some point, uh, Brad takes a step back from the microphone. They were reading into that. Like that's something that just doesn't come across in audio. And so you hear it and you're just like, okay, yeah, this actually sounds like pretty reasonable.

• 3:25Jordi Hays?

  And Satya, Satya's just sitting back laughing, basically.

• 3:28John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, exactly.

• 3:29Jordi Hays?

  It was like, it was the, one of the most strange.

• 3:31John Coogan?

  The layout is crazy too, yeah.

• 3:33Jordi Hays?

  I was actually surprised that, that they released it. I think it's good that it was released.

• 3:37John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 3:38Jordi Hays?

  Because this is the question that is on everyone's mind.

• 3:41John Coogan?

  Yes.

• 3:42Jordi Hays?

  He says, how will you afford 1.4 trillion in spending with only 12 billion of revenue? And Sam was like, actually, we have more revenue than that.

• 3:50John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 3:50Jordi Hays?

  Of course, they lost 10 or so billion dollars last quarter. Sam's answer was basically, sell your shares, we're automating science and we're going to release a hardware device and we're going to need a lot of compute for that. I can't think of a more, uh, poor answer when people deserve.

• 4:07Jordi Hays?

  To have, I think, a bit more clarity around it. Sam is smart enough to not sign up for 1.4 trillion dollars of liabilities.

• 4:16John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 4:16Jordi Hays?

  There is a world where he can thread the needle and spend all this money that he's sort of soft committing. But everything has to go perfectly. Agenda commerce has to be massive. Ads need to be massive. Subscriptions need to keep growing at the same rate. And so a lot of things need to go right. And it was just a really weak answer. The only person that I saw defending the answer in the whole interaction was Brad.

• 4:41John Coogan?

  Okay, so Sam said that the revenue was incorrect. It's not 14 billion, it's higher.

• 4:47Jordi Hays?

  It's worth noting that the losses are dramatically greater than the revenue.

• 4:51John Coogan?

  Yeah, but that doesn't matter for the deals. Because you pay the deals from the revenue.

• 4:55Jordi Hays?

  So many different businesses where their market caps are riding on their partnership with you.

• 5:00John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 5:01Jordi Hays?

  And you're just saying like, yeah, we're gonna just hit a grand slam with a new consumer hardware device. And every other attempted it so far has not managed to make anything even really that useful.

• 5:14John Coogan?

  If OpenAI doesn't accelerate to a trillion dollars in revenue or a quadrillion dollars in revenue, and all of a sudden, there's a whole bunch of folks who are like, wait a minute, like, how are you gonna pay us for our cloud stuff? And they're able to say, okay, well, let's actually wind this back. Or let's stretch this contract out. This five-year contract, let's make it a 10-year contract. Like, if all of that can happen smoothly and efficiently with just the stroke of a pen, like, it's not that big of a deal.

• 5:41Jordi Hays?

  Except if you're Oracle and you spend tens of billions of dollars building infrastructure that you ultimately can't monetize in the way that you thought you were gonna monetize.

• 5:51John Coogan?

  And if you have debt, too.

• 5:52Jordi Hays?

  And they have massive debt.

• 5:53John Coogan?

  Yep.

• 5:53Jordi Hays?

  And so the reason I'm wearing the tinfoil hat is I would like to propose The the glut theory, which is that I believe I believe there's a chance.

• 6:02John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:03Jordi Hays?

  That Sam actually wants to create a massive overbuild.

• 6:06John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:07Jordi Hays?

  So he can he can ultimately.

• 6:09John Coogan?

  He predicted a glut.

• 6:10Jordi Hays?

  Because he controls the demand.

• 6:11John Coogan?

  On the show.

• 6:12Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 6:12John Coogan?

  Glut pill.

• 6:12Jordi Hays?

  He's glut pill.

• 6:13John Coogan?

  It doesn't seem like they have a lot of debt. It doesn't seem like, we don't know. That's the thing is that we don't know how these contracts are written. There could be an easy mutual out. It could just be like, these contracts can be revocable for convenience. If you don't pay your AWS bill, OpenAI, there's 37 billion.

• 6:28Jordi Hays?

  Yeah.

• 6:28John Coogan?

  If you don't pay it, we own the company. You go into receivership. You go bankrupt. They're wildly different contracts and we don't know.

• 6:34Jordi Hays?

  OpenAI, I believe, will be a massive beneficiary of a glut and an overbuild. Sam is entirely right. He's actually smart to say.

• 6:43John Coogan?

  Totally.

• 6:43Jordi Hays?

  Focus on, let's focus on demand for the stock.

• 6:46John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:46Jordi Hays?

  Right? If you want to get out, I'll help you get out.

• 6:48John Coogan?

  Are you going to nuke my portfolio and I'm going to be fine on your deal, but the rest of my portfolio is getting cooked?

• 6:55Jordi Hays?

  You could have done a few of these press releases.

• 6:58John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 6:58Jordi Hays?

  And there wouldn't have been as many questions. OpenAI's revenue ramp is insane. They have the biggest consumer product in the last.

• 7:07John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 7:07Jordi Hays?

  10 years. When you announce a $100 billion deal, a $200 billion deal, another $100 billion, a $50 billion deal. And then less than 72 hours after this interview releases, there's another $38 billion deal announced. Now is a is an appropriate time, I think, for people to just press them harder on this. The joke of like OpenAI is holding up the stock market is incredibly real right now.

• 7:31John Coogan?

  I mean, I don't know what more people want, though. Like, we've been growing three three acts every year. We project that we're going to continue to grow three acts. The quadrillion number is a joke, but clearly they back at the envelope to being a hyperscaler.

• 7:46Jordi Hays?

  So say that. Don't say we're automating science. Sell your shares. Elon does very similar things, right?

• 7:51John Coogan?

  Yeah, totally. We're going to go Mars and we're going to have a flying car and we're going to have a trucking.

• 7:56Jordi Hays?

  Elon is probably 10 to 50 times more likeable than Sam in general.

• 8:03John Coogan?

  Yeah.

• 8:03Jordi Hays?

  Elon is more likeable and so people give him the benefit of the doubt. Longer track record of delivering on, you know, there's the, there's a thing of like Elon, you know, gets the timing wrong, but he delivered.

• 8:15John Coogan?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's just going to be more.

• 8:18Jordi Hays?

  Yeah, I just think, I just think the we're, we're gonna cure cancer answer, we're automating science answer, isn't good enough anymore at this scale when there's this many trillions of dollars on the line. Hey, man, how are you gonna pay for the 1.4 trillion of spend you promised proceeds to crash out?

• 8:35John Coogan?

  People are reading too much into Sam being feisty. Love that about him and in our founders. We laughed about it afterwards.

• 8:41Jordi Hays?

  Again, the question is for people that are not invested in OpenAI, but invested in all the companies that they're partnered with.

• 8:48John Coogan?

  Sure. Gotta give it to Altman, very forward thinker, itching to go public for the sole purpose of crushing the hypothetical short sellers that don't exist yet. Can't wait for the S1. I love that. So Sam breaks people's brains, just like Elon. There's a thin line between grifter and visionary and creating true believers to harvest their capital requires rhetoric that makes non-believers recoil. Elon hates Sam, not just because he stole his company, but he stole his whole playbook. Is Elon Barnum and Bailey the circusman or is he Thomas Edison or Nikola Tesla? Well, he's both. Not only can he lead engineers to invent the thing and build the thing, but then he can also promote it and he can promote it really, really well. He's both the grifter and the visionary. He's both the real deal and the fake guru. And when you put those together, it's really, really powerful.

• 9:33John Coogan?

  Sam seems to be doing something similar. In the build out of Tesla, in the build out of, of SpaceX, there was never a moment where it was like, if, if Elon goes bust, everything is dead.

• 9:47Jordi Hays?

  Speaking generally.

• 9:48John Coogan?

  It's a timeline assessment.

• 9:49Jordi Hays?

  Elon is more likeable than Sam. He has also made tens of thousands of retail investors so much money for believing in him. And so Sam doesn't have the benefit of having like, there's no retail army defending Sam.

• 10:03Speaker 03

  He says like, one of the reasons he would want to IPO is so that he could basically bring. You know, not just venture capitalists, but the entire economy with him.

• 10:10John Coogan?

  Yes, yes.

• 10:12Speaker 03

  So he clearly, he wants the retail army.

• 10:14John Coogan?

  Elon says, you stole a nonprofit. Sam Altman says, I helped turn the thing you left for dead into what should be the largest nonprofit ever.

• 10:22Jordi Hays?

  911, I'd like to report a murder and it's, and it's Sam. Sam basically giving shit to Tesla for not being able to do a refund. And so the follow up to you stole a nonprofit and you forgot to mention act four where this issue was fixed and you received a refund within 24 hours. But that is in your nature. So again.

• 10:39John Coogan?

  Elon refunded him. Refund confirmed.

• 10:42Jordi Hays?

  Hard because this, this is the most dentist coded car I've ever seen in my life. A white turbo S.

• 10:50John Coogan?

  Pulling the top down while you're driving though, that's pretty sick.

• 10:53Jordi Hays?

  So, I mean, I, I really dislike the, I really dislike Cabriolets in general.

• 10:59John Coogan?

  If this is the car that getting a dentist gets you.

• 11:01Jordi Hays?

  No, no, no shade to dentist, but this is a great car. If you were, if you're buying a sports car to drive to work at your dentist's office, this is a great option. Probably the greatest car in history.

• 11:14John Coogan?

  That's rough.

• 11:15Jordi Hays?

  All around, but it's not what customers want and it's unfortunate.

• 11:20John Coogan?

  Speaking of cars, Elon Musk teased on the Joe Rogan experience. The Tesla Roadster will be a flying car. He danced around it. He didn't say that exactly. Are you still doing the Roadster? Let's go.

• 11:33Jordi Hays?

  Yes.

• 11:34John Coogan?

  Let's do it. Eventually? Eventually.

• 11:37Speaker 04

  We're getting close to demonstrating the prototype.

• 11:42John Coogan?

  It's been seven years.

• 11:46John Coogan?

  Look at that.

• 11:46Speaker 04

  I, I, I, one thing I can guarantee is that this product demo will be unforgettable.

• 11:53John Coogan?

  I love it.

• 11:55Speaker 04

  Unforgettable.

• 11:56John Coogan?

  How so?

• 11:57Speaker 04

  Whether it's good or bad.

• 12:00John Coogan?

  Whether it's good or bad.

• 12:03Speaker 04

  Well, you know, my friend Peter Thiel, you know, once reflected that the future was supposed to have flying cars, but we don't have flying cars.

• 12:13John Coogan?

  So you're going to be able to fly?

• 12:14Speaker 04

  Well, I mean, Joe's face.

• 12:19Speaker 04

  I think if Peter wants a flying car, we should be able to fly one.

• 12:23Jordi Hays?

  Okay, pause it right there. What if it just actually is a flying car?

• 12:26John Coogan?

  It could be. Large solar powered AI satellite constellation would be able to-

• 12:30Jordi Hays?

  Would fix him.

• 12:31John Coogan?

  Would fix him. Would be able to prevent global warming by making tiny adjustments in how much solar energy reached the earth. How much CapEx does that cost?

• 12:39Jordi Hays?

  One thing that was super notable, and he was talking about the shareholder vote around his compensation, but also the voting power that it'll have. And one of the things that he said was, "I don't want to create a robot army if I can be fired by ISS or any of these voting groups."

• 12:56John Coogan?

  Who should control the robot army? Good question. Let me tell you about public.com, investing for those that take it seriously. Multi-asset investing, industry yields, trusted by millions. They have shared new details on the internal conflicts that led to Sam Altman's initial firing, including a memo alleging that Altman exhibited a consistent pattern of lying. There's a deposition transcript that is going around that is now public. From the Ilya deposition, Tucan kind of summarizes it here. Ilya plotted for over a year with Mira to remove Sam. Dario wanted Greg Brockman fired and himself in charge of all research. That's Dario Amade, I believe, from Anthropic. Mira Maroti told Ilya Switzkiewicz

• 13:40John Coogan?

  that Sam Altman pitted her against Daniela Amade. Ilya wrote a 52-page memo to get Sam fired and a separate doc on Greg.

• 13:50Jordi Hays?

  Tyler is going to be playing the attorney Agnolucci, and I will be attorney Molo.

• 13:56John Coogan?

  And I'm Ilya.

• 13:57Jordi Hays?

  It certainly does matter how much. What do you think the value of your equity at OpenAI was at the time Sam Altman was fired?

• 14:04Speaker 03

  And I'm instructing the witness not to answer as to the money value.

• 14:08Jordi Hays?

  Are you going to not answer?

• 14:10John Coogan?

  I have to obey my attorney.

• 14:12Jordi Hays?

  Okay, so you're not going to answer?

• 14:14John Coogan?

  I'll do what my attorney tells me to. I think it's very hard for someone who would be described as a saint to make it. We're on the road tomorrow, but we're still doing a show 11 a.m. Pacific. We'll see you there. I don't think we'll be doing any guests. We'll see. It might be a little bit of a shorter show, but don't worry, we have a bunch of-

• 14:31Jordi Hays?

  A lot of timeline.

• 14:32John Coogan?

  We'll see you tomorrow.

• 14:32Jordi Hays?

  See you tomorrow.

• 14:33John Coogan?

  Goodbye.

• 14:33Jordi Hays?

  Love you.