Black bears are moving into the neighborhood. How do we coexist?

As black bears return to their historic ranges across the U. S., human encounters are increasing. How can bears and people live in harmony?

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Speaker 00

  WNYC is supported by Bear. Science is about asking questions, testing, trying again. It's not easy, but it's relentless. It evolves, and that's why science delivers. Learn more at sciencedelivers.com.

• 0:17Flora Lichtman?

  Hey, it's Flora Lichtman, and you're listening to Science Friday. Black bears have been popping up in unexpected places. Raiding the backyard grill. He munching. Aww. Is it barbecue sausages he ate? Breaking into cars.

• 0:36Speaker 02

  He's going, oh, my gosh, oh, my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

• 0:42Flora Lichtman?

  Nursing their cubs on someone's patio furniture.

• 0:45Speaker 03

  Mama has found her favorite chair. Has her foot up. Baby's in her lap nursing. Isn't this not adorable?

• 0:55Flora Lichtman?

  One of the relatively new places where these encounters are happening is in the southern U.S. After being hunted nearly to extinction, black bear populations are rebounding there, and bear territory is expanding to include people's backyards. Cassandra Stevenson, a reporter for The Tennessee Lookout, based in Nashville, reported on how this is playing out in the states along the Lower Mississippi River, like Tennessee, Missouri, and Arkansas, where black bears are becoming more and more common. Cassandra, welcome to Science Friday.

• 1:26Speaker 04

  Thank you for having me.

• 1:27Flora Lichtman?

  Thanks for being here. Cassandra, how did you get turned on to this story?

• 1:31Speaker 04

  I came across a lot of social media chatter in West Tennessee, reporting different black bear sightings in places where people didn't typically expect to see black bears. In Tennessee, they're really common in the eastern, more mountainous portion of the state, but people were, you know, posting pictures of black bears munching on some corn in a cornfield, you know, running through a golf course, caught on Ring cameras in people's backyards. So I started looking into why the bears were being seen, you know, in the western portion of the state and found that that's actually their historic habitat.

• 2:16Speaker 04

  They were abundant throughout the state of Tennessee and many other states in the southeast before overhunting and habitat destruction reduced their numbers drastically.

• 2:27Flora Lichtman?

  Yeah, so what is the history of bears in this region?

• 2:30Speaker 04

  So bears were abundant in this region back before settlement, basically. And as people settled in the Lower Mississippi River Basin, some of their habitat was, you know, changed, destroyed, and their population numbers dropped significantly, sometimes, you know, to the point where they were almost nonexistent in certain states.

• 2:59Flora Lichtman?

  Really?

• 3:00Speaker 04

  Yeah, I think Missouri in like the 1890s thought that they might have been completely extirpated, meaning like just kind of hunted out of existence in that state.

• 3:11Flora Lichtman?

  So now, you know, now, obviously, we have all these sightings. What has happened to the population since, and what helped them rebound?

• 3:18Speaker 04

  It kind of depends by state, but in the 1930s through kind of 1960s, there were a lot of efforts to regulate hunting more. A lot of states actually stopped bear hunting for a period of time. In some states like Mississippi, it hasn't started back up again. And then, in some cases, states tried to kind of boost their population by bringing in bears from Canada or Minnesota.

• 3:49Flora Lichtman?

  How did that go?

• 3:49Speaker 04

  It didn't really work out too well. There was a study a few years ago that showed that there's still some, you know, DNA evidence that maybe some bears in Louisiana might have some of the DNA of some of the bears that were brought in, like literally trucked in from those other places. But newspaper clippings from around the 1950s and 60s when that happened show that quite a few of those bears were killed or, you know, died or wandered away because bears have really expansive home ranges.

• 4:29Flora Lichtman?

  So Cassandra, what's your take home from this reporting? Does this feel like with growing populations, there's a new problem to solve? Or how are you thinking about it?

• 4:38Speaker 04

  Yeah, in talking to a lot of the state wildlife agencies, they kind of looked at this as, one, a sort of success in that, you know, these animals that were greatly overhunted, their populations are coming back. But they also encouraged people to start thinking as though, you know, bears are already their neighbors because it will be a bit of an adjustment for people to have bears living alongside them.

• 5:13Flora Lichtman?

  Absolutely. Cassandra, thank you for walking us through this story.

• 5:17Speaker 04

  Yeah, absolutely. Happy to.

• 5:19Flora Lichtman?

  Cassandra Stevenson, reporter for The Tennessee Lookout. She reported this story in collaboration with the Mississippi River Basin Ag and Water Desk. After the break, as black bears move in, can we learn to get along? Don't go away.

• 5:37Flora Lichtman?

  Hey, everybody, if you like Science Friday, I want to recommend another podcast I know you'll love, too. Science Versus. From peptides to protein maxing, Science Versus takes on fads and trends and the opinionated mob, I know you know what I mean, to find out what is fact, what is not, and what's something in between. And they're the only podcast with better pun game than us. So check them out, Science Versus, wherever you get your podcasts.

• 6:11Flora Lichtman?

  This bear boom isn't just happening in the southeast. There are an estimated 20,000 black bears in Pennsylvania, 24,000 in Wisconsin, and maybe as many as 70,000 in California. And as we've been talking about, living with black bears is complicated. They're huge, they're hungry, and they really don't care about your hostas. So as their populations increase and they get more comfortable around us, how do we coexist? Here with me now is Dr. Naima Harris. She's a wildlife biologist, carnivore ecologist, and expert on human-wildlife interactions at Yale University. Naima, welcome to Science Friday. Thanks for being here.

• 6:51Speaker 05

  Well, thanks so much for having me. I appreciate the invitation.

• 6:54Flora Lichtman?

  So these bear videos are all over my algorithm. Is this a big issue in your world and the wildlife ecology world?

• 7:03Speaker 05

  Absolutely. There's an increase in wildlife encounters with all types of species, including black bear, and people are concerned about wildlife. People are concerned about their pets and their groceries and their children. And so as we're seeing more and more wildlife, including black bears, in our neighborhoods, it raises the question of both, why is this happening? And what do I do?

• 7:27Flora Lichtman?

  Why is it happening?

• 7:29Speaker 05

  Black bear populations are increasing. We already know this. And like any population, there's variation in individuals. There's going to be some individuals that are shy and timid and that we don't see. But then there are individuals that become acclimated, that become habituated, that become bolder. And those bold individuals are the ones that create our worry because they're coming closer and closer to us and seem to be kind of fearless. And so we're worried about what's going to happen and what are they going to do next?

• 8:01Flora Lichtman?

  Okay, so what should we do? Are there best practices for living near black bears besides locking away your trash?

• 8:07Speaker 05

  Well, I'm glad you mentioned trash because that ends up being one of the primary drivers. The reality is that every place that we are is a shared resource. We are in a shared landscape. So first, we have to accept that we are making choices about where we live, about the habitats are around us, how close do our homes abut natural forested areas or highly vegetated areas, for example? How are we manicuring our lawns? How are we taking care of the vegetation around us? But then also, how are we managing our trash? And so you have your birthday party, and you have leftover cake, and you throw it in the garbage can. Are those garbage cans secure? Are they locked? It's going to be a lure.

• 8:50Speaker 05

  Bird feeders, dog foods, those are also a part of.

• 8:53Flora Lichtman?

  Bird feeders? Oh, this audience is going to go wild, Naima. Are you telling us we can't have bird feeders?

• 8:59Speaker 05

  I'm sorry, I'm sorry. It's an attractant, right? It's attracting everything from birds to mice to raccoons to even bears because bears are omnivores. They are eating seeds, they are eating grains. And so, yes, it ends up being an attractant.

• 9:15Flora Lichtman?

  I wanted to ask you about that because, you know, in children's books, anyway, the only food bears eat are like blueberries and fish.

• 9:23Speaker 05

  And honey.

• 9:24Flora Lichtman?

  And honey, of course, and honey. What do black bears actually eat?

• 9:28Speaker 05

  So it's, it's very interesting because we classify animals in lots of different ways. Sometimes it's taxonomically based on their morphology. And so bears are a part of order carnivora. So they are absolutely carnivores. And additionally, we classify animals based on behavioral characteristics. Are they diurnal or nocturnal? We classify animals based on their diet. So bears, even though they're taxonomically, morphometrically carnivores, they have large canines, for example, they are omnivores. So they are eating both plant material, things like berries and seeds, but they're also eating meat.

• 10:09Speaker 05

  And so they're eating carrion, for example, dead stuff, which is really helpful for nutrient cycling and cleaning up trash and things that are decaying around us. So they play a really important ecosystem role from that perspective. Because they are eating seeds and berries and plant materials, they're really important seed dispersers, right? And so that means they're helping to reforest and aid in plant diversity. But then they're also eating insects, things like termites and different types of bugs. And so they're a part of insect control. So as much as we are kind of concerned about the growth of population of black bears, we also have to remember that they are playing important ecosystem functions and roles. So we do want them to be around.

• 10:54Flora Lichtman?

  Do they hunt animals?

• 10:57Speaker 05

  So some of them do. So unlike species like a grizzly bear, that might be a more active hunter, black bears are kind of clumsy and a little bit sloppy in their strategy around hunting. But sometimes they do take fawns, right? So they take deer fawns. And so they're not a primary apex predator in, in most systems, but they do hunt.

• 11:21Flora Lichtman?

  They hunt fawns.

• 11:22Speaker 05

  Yeah. Yeah.

• 11:24Flora Lichtman?

  I mean, you kind of alluded to this, but what's their reputation in the bear family tree? Are they like, are they kind of the goofy cousin?

• 11:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, maybe, you know, a distant relative that we may not want to claim so much. They are, are not the most ferocious, right? They're not extremely aggressive, but they're big, right? They're big and kind of clunky. And I think most people, when they look at bears, they're like, oh, they're really cute. And, and they are, right? They're, they're kind of cute. And I think that that creates a little bit of tension because you have some members of the community that are just kind of annoyed or terrified and don't want them close. But then you have a subset of the population that are excited about seeing bears and, and want them to come. And they're like, oh, you know, the bear comes to my backyard at 6:00 PM every night, let's have a watch party. And people are excited about these encounters.

• 12:18Speaker 05

  But then it also means that we're making mistakes, right? And, and we're, we're deliberately trying to get closer and closer and, and take our selfies or do all types of inappropriate human behavior. And so we have to have a complementary and a consistent strategy that we want wild animals to stay wild. We do not want to alter their behavior for them to become habituated, because ultimately that's going to lead to conflict.

• 12:45Flora Lichtman?

  I mean, is it inevitable that they're going to become habituated? Like, let's think about raccoons and squirrels and, you know, many other animals that live with us. Like, do you feel like there's a way around this?

• 12:58Speaker 05

  Oh goodness, I, I, I hope 50 years from now, we're not thinking about the squirrel and, and the black bear in the same way. I really hope that that's not the case.

• 13:07Flora Lichtman?

  Wait, why? Why?

• 13:09Speaker 05

  Um, because of, again, going back to the, the ecosystem role, right? The role that a squirrel plays in the system versus the role that a black bear plays in the system is very different. We also want these large carnivores to have wide home ranges. I mentioned the important role about them being seed dispersers. That means we need them to disperse. We need them to move. We need them to go places. So we don't want them habituated in a way of their territory becoming smaller and smaller, and they're just hanging out in our backyard, and now they're friends with our dog. We do not want that to be happening, right? We don't want a pet black bear.

• 13:46Flora Lichtman?

  Social media does want that to be happening, but I hear you.

• 13:49Speaker 05

  Please, no. Please, no.

• 13:51Flora Lichtman?

  I hear you. I mean, this is a tricky question with maybe no scientific answer, but do we have any sense of how black bears perceive us? Are we scary? Are we food? What are we to them?

• 14:02Speaker 05

  Yeah, I, I love that question because I, I just reflect on the number of black bear encounters that I've had. And I think other people can, can testify to similar experiences of us startling them of, you know, we're on the trail or we're out in the, in the woods and they come across us and they're like, oh, wait, wait, wait, wait, what, what is this thing? And oftentimes their response isn't attack, their response isn't even to go up on hind legs. Oftentimes their response is, is moving and backing away and trying to get further and further away from us, right? So the reality is that we come with some risk. Bears are certainly hunted in certain populations, and so they are aware of us as, as potential

• 14:47Speaker 05

  hunters in the ecosystem. So there is absolutely a reason to be fearful of us. Sometimes we're walking with our, with our German shepherds or our dovermans or our pit bulls, another reason to be afraid of us. So there is definitely a wariness that comes with the encounters, I think, on, on both sides of, of the equation. There's also an acknowledgement and strategies of what people are now doing to try to promote aversive behavior, so aversive conditioning, right? The idea of, okay, so if you do encounter a bear and you don't want them there, what do you do? They're actually very smart from the perspective of learned behavior.

• 15:29Speaker 05

  So if they come into your backyard and they get an easy snack, they have memory and they can do mind maps. So they know, okay, you know, 7648 Johnson Street, sorry if that's someone's address. They, they know that they can go there and get an easy snack.

• 15:47Flora Lichtman?

  They remember where the buffet is, yeah.

• 15:49Speaker 05

  Exactly, exactly. But we can do some adverse conditioning, whether it's, again, are the dogs that are barking or chasing. Some people are chasing with drones now. So there's these types of hazing practices, if you will, that teach the animal, that teach the black bear, you're going to have a bad experience, learn from this experience and go someplace else.

• 16:10Flora Lichtman?

  Best done by a professional, I'm guessing.

• 16:12Speaker 05

  Correct.

• 16:15Flora Lichtman?

  Yeah, yeah. You know, I know that you don't just study black bears, but you work all over the world studying carnivores. Snow leopards in Central Asia, lions in West Africa. Are there lessons that you take from these other places that live with big carnivores that could apply here?

• 16:33Speaker 05

  Yeah, the reality is that all of these places, whether we're talking about jaguars in Mexico, or lions in West Africa, or snow leopards in Kyrgyzstan, or coyotes and black bears in Detroit, there is a common thread that every place, these communities that are living with these large carnivores, have some unique challenges that they're facing. And the strategies that they implement has to be effective, has to be socially and culturally acceptable. And so there are shared lessons. And fundamentally, it is grounded in some amount of tolerance.

• 17:13Speaker 05

  There's an awareness that living close to these carnivores comes with a certain cost, but also comes with a certain reward. So tolerance ends up being a fundamental theme across these different cultures and these different places. But then also, what does coexistence actually mean? How do we define it? What is the, what are the metrics that we use to say that we are successfully coexisting with wildlife? The reality is, it doesn't mean that there's no loss, right? It doesn't mean that there's no conflict. It means that the conflict is manageable and that we can tolerate the extent of the loss that we're experiencing.

• 17:51Flora Lichtman?

  That's really helpful. That's a really helpful framework. Dr. Naema Harris, Associate Professor of Wildlife and Land Conservation at Yale University. Thank you for joining us today.

• 18:01Speaker 05

  Thanks for having me.

• 18:03Flora Lichtman?

  And we want to hear from you. Have you had a surprising black bear encounter? Was one sitting on your outdoor couch, looking ready for a margarita? Did it take a dip in your hot tub? Did you scare each other in the woods? Call us with your best black bear story. 8774 Sci-Fry is our number, 8774 Sci-Fry. This episode was produced by Kathleen Davis. And if it made you as hungry as a bear for more Science Friday, try us on social media, at Sci-Fry on all the platforms. We will fit right in with your black bear reels. We'll catch you next time. Thank you for listening. I'm Flora Lipton.