Colleen Cutcliffe (on the microbiome)

Colleen Cutcliffe (Pendulum Therapeutics) is a doctor of biochemistry and microbiology and CEO and co-founder of Pendulum Therapeutics. Colleen joins the Armchair Expert to discuss starting a microbiome supplement company inspired by her premature daughter who had to take antibiotics, applying hyenas' evolved ability to digest rotting meat to study gut bacteria, and how fecal transplants reliably help treat C. diff. Colleen and Dax talk about the real linkages between microbiome and depression, obesity, and more, how the body’s natural GLP1s function, and why a healthy gut is a resilient gut. Colleen explains her wooden fence analogy to illustrate leaky guy syndrome, remarkable results from experiments giving mice Akkermansia, and that the beauty of the microbiome is that everything is recoverable. See Privacy Policy at https://art19.com/privacy and California Privacy Notice at https://art19.com/privacy#do-not-sell-my-info.

Speaker names marked ? are inferred from speaking time and the show’s known hosts — they are not voice-verified.

• 0:00Dax Shepard?

  Welcome, welcome, welcome to Armchair Expert, Experts on Expert. I'm Dax Shepard, I'm joined by Monica Padman.

• 0:06Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 0:07Dax Shepard?

  Long time coming, we really are interested in this. For people who've been listening to the show for years, there was a period, six years ago, where we were obsessed with getting a fecal transplant from our friend Amy.

• 0:17Speaker 01

  Yep.

• 0:18Dax Shepard?

  And it took us six years to get someone who actually knows about this space. And her name is Colleen Cutcliffe, and she is a microbiome scientist and health advisory board member for Johns Hopkins Bloomberg School of Public Health.

• 0:33Speaker 01

  Very prestigious school, the one you don't like to say, because there's an S at the end of Johns.

• 0:38Dax Shepard?

  Plural and plural.

• 0:39Speaker 01

  There was something funny on the internet, I forget exactly what it was, but it was like, people have trouble with pronouns, but they're able to say Ruth's Chris.

• 0:47Dax Shepard?

  That's hard for me, too.

• 0:48Speaker 01

  It's hard.

• 0:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's too, yeah, at any rate, very prestigious, as we know. And she has a company, you'll hear about it, called Pendulum, that is making probiotics and prebiotics, and with a much different degree of oversight.

• 1:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, does Ruth own Chris?

• 1:10Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:11Speaker 01

  Like, Chris-

• 1:11Dax Shepard?

  Ruth's Chris.

• 1:12Speaker 01

  Like, Ruth's son Chris, but they didn't say son?

• 1:15Dax Shepard?

  Right, or maybe like, Chris was a popular cut of steak, and Ruth did a perfect, you know, Ruth's Chris. This was in the teens, and now no one, no one calls any cut of steak.

• 1:27Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:27Dax Shepard?

  But yeah, what other, what shot of that would make sense?

• 1:31Speaker 01

  I don't know.

• 1:31Speaker 02

  Do you want to know the answer?

• 1:32Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33Speaker 02

  So, it was named after its founder, Ruth Fertel, who purchased an existing restaurant called Chris Steakhouse.

• 1:41Speaker 01

  Oh, that makes sense.

• 1:44Dax Shepard?

  I bet if I bought McDonald's, and it was Dax's McDonald's.

• 1:46Speaker 01

  Exactly. Okay, we solved that.

• 1:49Dax Shepard?

  Please enjoy, oh, let me just say, this is, we all hear a lot about microbiome, we're gonna, we're gonna hear about all these incredible microbes in your, in your digestive system that do so many things, it's fascinating beyond belief. The things that we are linking now to certain ailments that are microbiome derived. There's a very exciting future ahead for all of us. Please enjoy Colleen Cutcliffe.

• 2:12Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Quince.

• 2:14Speaker 01

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• 2:23Dax Shepard?

  I'm fully there. The second it dips below 70, I'm like, this is my season. Give me the layers, give me the boots, give me a reason to wear something other than a t-shirt. And honestly, that's why I love Quince because fall is when your wardrobe actually has to show up. And everything at Quince is 50 to 80% less than similar brands. We're talking 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters, starting at $60.

• 2:45Speaker 01

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• 3:03Dax Shepard?

  The 100% Mongolian cashmere sweaters for me are it. When I look at Steve McQueen, this man owned a couple of sweaters he wore all the time and he looks iconic.

• 3:12Speaker 01

  It's a uniform.

• 3:14Dax Shepard?

  Mm hmm.

• 3:14Speaker 01

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• 3:32Dax Shepard?

  Find your next fall favorites at Quince. Download the Quince app for app exclusive offers or go to quince.com. Get free shipping on your order and 365 day returns. Now available in Canada and the UK too. And when Quince asks where you heard about them, let them know it was Armchair Expert. It's the best way to support the show. We get support from AG1. Fall is that time when your body and mind are getting ready for the winter. You're settling in, bracing for the cold. Your body's already running a deficit from the shorter days and broken sleep patterns. You don't want a nutrient deficit stacked on top of that too.

• 4:08Speaker 01

  That's where your AG1 routine earns its spot. It's not fixing your sleep or your alarm time. It's giving your body what it needs so the dark mornings don't tank you before you even start. One scoop, cold water every morning before anything else.

• 4:20Dax Shepard?

  AG1 Next Gen has 75 plus ingredients, vitamins, minerals, pre and probiotics, superfoods, backed by four separate gold standard clinical trials. Key nutrient levels improved with three months of consistent use.

• 4:34Speaker 01

  That's the part people miss. It's not a one day fix. It's what happens when you stay consistent.

• 4:38Dax Shepard?

  It's an easy, everyday thing. I've added it to my morning routine and I'm going to tell you, I actually love the taste of it. It's like Pavlovian. I drink it and I know, mm, I'm going to get that little vitamin buzz.

• 4:49Speaker 01

  Well, that's also the thing. When you do it first thing in the morning, you already feel kind of self-esteem because you're like, I already did something good for myself.

• 4:56Dax Shepard?

  Yes. Go to drinkag1.com/dax and for a limited time, get a free immunity bundle, including a bottle of omega three fish oil and a bottle of vitamin D3 K2 with your first subscription order of AG1 Next Gen or AG1 Pro. That's drinkag1.com/dax. And after checkout, be sure to let them know that Armchair Experts sent you.

• 5:38Speaker 03

  Tell me what you know about the microbiome.

• 5:40Dax Shepard?

  Well, I read I Contain Multitudes.

• 5:42Speaker 03

  That's a pretty sciency book.

• 5:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, Ed Yong's book.

• 5:45Speaker 03

  We like him.

• 5:46Dax Shepard?

  We love him.

• 5:47Speaker 03

  Do you have a tissue over there? I'm so sorry. I just spilled and I don't want to let it soak. You know how it goes.

• 5:53Dax Shepard?

  Are you coming in from San Francisco?

• 5:55Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 5:55Dax Shepard?

  And are you well versed in LA or no?

• 5:57Speaker 03

  My husband grew up here. He grew up in Palos Verdes, so I know that area a little bit. Yeah, he is.

• 6:05Speaker 01

  For him.

• 6:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's really nice over there. But other than that, I don't know a lot.

• 6:08Dax Shepard?

  There's also that incredibly interesting community they've been studying for a long time. You know about that in Palos Verdes? There's like a retirement community, they have incredible data. The whole community agreed to be a part of some long-term studies. So there's like a lot of gerontology studies happening in Palos Verdes.

• 6:23Speaker 03

  Wow.

• 6:24Dax Shepard?

  I wish I could remember the name of the neighborhood. And what's he up to? What's your husband do?

• 6:28Speaker 03

  He is an ER physician.

• 6:30Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 6:31Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 6:32Dax Shepard?

  That's pretty hot.

• 6:33Speaker 03

  It was crazy during COVID. If we can remember back to when COVID first started and we didn't know anything about it or how it was spreading. I remember he came home from work. I had started this company, so I was like an entrepreneur startup, which is some work.

• 6:43Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. A bit of work.

• 6:45Speaker 03

  And we had two small children. And I remember he came home from work one day, he kept his backpack on and he was like, should I check into a hotel? Cause a lot of doctors are doing that because they're like, I don't want to bring this home to my family and my kids. And I said, you said till death do us part. And we're either all dying together, but like you don't get to go live in a hotel. Why I have to like raise these people and do the work?

• 7:06Speaker 01

  No, that's too much.

• 7:06Speaker 03

  Yeah, so he stayed, but yeah, that was the craziest.

• 7:09Speaker 01

  Have you been watching The Pit?

• 7:11Speaker 03

  No, we are not allowed to watch anything work-related at home.

• 7:13Dax Shepard?

  Sure, that's a good rule.

• 7:15Speaker 01

  It's so good, Noah Wiley.

• 7:17Speaker 03

  I heard it's actually really accurate, too.

• 7:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. And that first season is in COVID.

• 7:22Speaker 03

  Oh, it is? Oh, God, that would probably trigger a lot of bad stuff for us.

• 7:25Dax Shepard?

  And Dr. Mike is a consultant on it. That's why it's so good.

• 7:29Speaker 03

  So this company almost didn't make it through COVID because I was like, all right, well, if one of us has to give up.

• 7:34Speaker 01

  Oh, sure.

• 7:35Speaker 03

  It'll be me.

• 7:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 7:36Speaker 03

  But luckily I'm not a super good parent, so I kept the company going.

• 7:41Dax Shepard?

  Good, good, good, good, good. You gotta put your mask on first.

• 7:44Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 7:44Speaker 03

  Yes, that's right, yes.

• 7:46Dax Shepard?

  I imagine you in particular, you do forget the notion that if something horrendous were to spread, the doctors are the ones that are gonna see it first. Like you take that on.

• 7:56Speaker 01

  Before they know. Know what it is.

• 7:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 7:57Speaker 01

  Exposed.

• 7:58Dax Shepard?

  Someone gets something, obviously, they're gonna turn up at a hospital.

• 8:01Speaker 03

  First people exposed, I know.

• 8:02Dax Shepard?

  Where are you from originally?

• 8:04Speaker 03

  I grew up in Atlanta.

• 8:05Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, I'm from Georgia as well.

• 8:07Speaker 03

  Oh, you are?

• 8:07Speaker 01

  Yes, I'm from Duluth.

• 8:08Speaker 03

  Oh, OK, yeah, so I grew up in Atlanta, and my parents live in Marietta now.

• 8:12Speaker 01

  Oh, my gosh, what high school did you go to?

• 8:15Speaker 03

  Westminster.

• 8:15Speaker 01

  Oh, fancy.

• 8:16Dax Shepard?

  It's nice, too.

• 8:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:17Speaker 03

  Oh, I really don't like the way I'm being cast here.

• 8:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, your husband.

• 8:21Speaker 03

  Yeah. We're normal.

• 8:23Speaker 01

  You're very normal.

• 8:23Dax Shepard?

  And what did your parents do?

• 8:25Speaker 03

  My dad, he worked at IBM for a really long time, and then a small group of them, after they all got laid off, went and fixed up startup companies and sold them back to companies like IBM and Apple. And then he did what his lifelong dream was, which he became a professor at like a local community college.

• 8:39Speaker 01

  Oh, nice.

• 8:40Speaker 03

  He like always wanted to be a teacher, but he felt like he had to work to make money for the family. And so his retirement gig for 20 years was professor, and now he's fully retired.

• 8:48Speaker 01

  That's awesome.

• 8:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, and then my mom was like a consultant.

• 8:51Speaker 01

  A retirement gig is being a professor, that's like my dad's idea of retirement.

• 8:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, her father's just now retiring as an engineer.

• 8:58Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 8:58Dax Shepard?

  And he immediately started right back the next day.

• 9:02Speaker 01

  He just can't retire.

• 9:03Speaker 03

  Some people are really bad at retirement.

• 9:05Speaker 01

  I called them yesterday, or my mom was like, "Call, because you were at the Golden Globes, you wanted to hear about it." And, you know, I FaceTimed, and she's like, "Dad's in a meeting." I was like, "He's in a meeting in his retirement."

• 9:14Speaker 03

  Retired, he's in a meeting, yeah. Well, probably a lot of people want him to like consult on things and stuff like that.

• 9:19Speaker 01

  Exactly, he's a consultant in quotes.

• 9:21Dax Shepard?

  It just means they don't have to pay any of the other stuff, I think, yes. They don't have to pay into the disability, you're a private contractor now. And was he an engineer of some kind at IBM?

• 9:31Speaker 03

  He's a computer science person.

• 9:32Dax Shepard?

  OK, and so education prize, yeah?

• 9:35Speaker 03

  Yeah, and also I'm Chinese.

• 9:36Dax Shepard?

  You're not first generation, are you?

• 9:38Speaker 03

  I always get confused, does first generation mean I was...

• 9:40Dax Shepard?

  The one born here, right?

• 9:41Speaker 03

  I was born here, but they were not, so they're immigrants and I was born here.

• 9:44Dax Shepard?

  So, yeah, first gen, first gen.

• 9:46Speaker 01

  It is a little confusing, the way the gens...

• 9:48Dax Shepard?

  What else would it be, guys?

• 9:49Speaker 03

  No, you could be the immigrant, you're like the first generation who came here.

• 9:52Speaker 01

  To come.

• 9:53Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 9:54Dax Shepard?

  No, because you can't come mid-generation, they're already alive.

• 9:57Speaker 01

  I think I'm half, because, like, yes, I am. I'm half.

• 10:02Dax Shepard?

  She's not.

• 10:03Speaker 01

  I am half.

• 10:03Dax Shepard?

  Her mom did come here.

• 10:05Speaker 01

  When she was six.

• 10:06Dax Shepard?

  Still, the rules are out as first gen.

• 10:08Speaker 01

  Don't you think that's like half?

• 10:09Speaker 03

  See, I don't know. I feel like you're like second generation.

• 10:11Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 10:12Dax Shepard?

  You guys are both way more entitled than I am to have an opinion on this. But I, I will say, I think you technically have to be born here.

• 10:19Speaker 03

  Okay, alright. But my parents were both born in China, and then when communism came, my mom's family fled to Taiwan. My dad's family fled to Japan. My dad grew up going to the American school in Japan. So he's kind of like first generation, but it was American school. And then they both moved to the States and met there. So they're kind of double immigrants. Yeah.

• 10:37Dax Shepard?

  So what year would he have gone to Japan?

• 10:39Speaker 03

  He was there right after World War II.

• 10:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 10:42Speaker 03

  And he grew up there. And then he came here and went to college in the US.

• 10:45Dax Shepard?

  Were they loving Chinese in Japan back then?

• 10:48Speaker 03

  No, because basically the Japanese were on their knees after World War II. And he was in the consulate.

• 10:54Dax Shepard?

  Oh, his father, your grandfather?

• 10:55Speaker 03

  Yeah, the reason they fled is because they were anti-communists. And so they fled, and so they were in the consulate in Japan as representatives for, I guess Taiwan really at that point. And he kind of grew up in a little bit of a bubble, going to the American school. All his friends are Europeans and Americans. Yeah, exactly.

• 11:10Speaker 01

  So you're one and a half, too?

• 11:11Speaker 03

  I think so, too. Yeah.

• 11:13Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna go along with whatever the verdict was.

• 11:15Speaker 03

  I think kind of what you're getting at is culturally, because your mom came in when she was six, and my dad grew up in the American school in Japan, for example, yes, education was important. But my parents, you know, when you're a kid and you're trying to make decisions about stuff, you're like, should I do this or should I do that? They were always about, well, what's gonna make you the happiest? What will make you unhappy? What will you regret?

• 11:33Speaker 01

  That's rare for a first gen.

• 11:35Speaker 03

  Right.

• 11:35Dax Shepard?

  Which you also benefited from.

• 11:36Speaker 01

  I did also benefit.

• 11:38Dax Shepard?

  And here we get into the problem of stereotypes. It's multifaceted and so dynamic. Also, her father happens to be from an area of India, Kerala, where it's kind of matriarchal. And he also had older sisters. Like, there's a lot that goes into the stew of how...

• 11:52Speaker 01

  Everyone's their own person, I guess.

• 11:53Speaker 03

  Yeah, but we can go with stereotypes. It's fine.

• 11:56Dax Shepard?

  We got in this fight one time. I said, if I saw your father do something that was completely insane to me, like I had never seen it in my life, I would immediately deduce, oh, it's probably something cultural, from India.

• 12:07Speaker 03

  Right.

• 12:07Dax Shepard?

  And she's like, you can't do that.

• 12:08Speaker 01

  I know. Yeah, you said if you saw him eating cereal, weird, or something with no milk, or like something.

• 12:15Dax Shepard?

  Something we may...

• 12:16Speaker 01

  It was something asinine.

• 12:17Dax Shepard?

  That he was doing.

• 12:18Speaker 01

  Yeah, that you would assume that was a cultural thing, which I guess I get. But I don't like it. I'm pretty allergic to-

• 12:25Dax Shepard?

  Here's a good topic, actually.

• 12:27Speaker 01

  Some of the stereotypes.

• 12:27Dax Shepard?

  We're on to something. This is actually a good topic.

• 12:29Speaker 01

  Okay, great.

• 12:30Dax Shepard?

  Because I would say, will you tell me out of 10, her sensitivity to her fear of being generalized and being an outcast and excluded was quite high.

• 12:39Speaker 03

  Was a 10. Well, you grew up in Duluth. Everybody's mostly white there.

• 12:42Speaker 01

  It's very white.

• 12:44Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly, though, right, diverse?

• 12:46Speaker 01

  Yeah, when I went to high school, it was very white. There were other people, other ethnicities. No, there were other ethnicities there, but it was a small group. If you were Asian, they were all the smart kids. There was very few diversity in the major population. They were all on the periphery. Yeah, gen pop.

• 13:04Speaker 03

  And do you feel like that contributes to the sensitivity?

• 13:07Speaker 01

  Definitely. I was a cheerleader. I was trying to be so normal, regular.

• 13:11Speaker 03

  I'm normal. Look at me. I'm like a white person, just like it.

• 13:13Speaker 01

  Exactly, yes. But you didn't have that, maybe? Atlanta's more diverse.

• 13:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I went to a really small school, so like everybody kind of knew each other. And then there were only four Asians in my grade. The three of them kind of hung out with each other. I feel like they were more ethnically Asian, and I was definitely more identified with the other kids. And so I didn't experience any racism growing up.

• 13:34Speaker 01

  Wow.

• 13:34Speaker 03

  People were super nice. I didn't have any issues. I don't feel like I was excluded from anything because of my race. And I feel like it's more of a black-white issue in Atlanta. Chinese people, at least at that time, they're like, whatever.

• 13:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're not the main thing we're focused on.

• 13:47Speaker 01

  Right.

• 13:47Speaker 03

  Or actually, I feel like that white people felt like, well, at least you're not black. And black people felt like, well, you're not white. So I got to hang out. I felt like I was most included.

• 13:54Speaker 01

  Wow, I have the opposite feeling. I feel like because I was in the middle somehow, I was like, well, you're not one of us, and then you're not one of us. So you're just like, damn.

• 14:03Dax Shepard?

  But without minimizing either person's experience, it's just telling about how subjective the experience is and how perspective is so much of the whole experience.

• 14:12Speaker 01

  Well, and how individuals are experiencing things so differently.

• 14:17Dax Shepard?

  But like two people caught in the middle of two predominant races, right? Like you got black, you got white. We're this somewhere in the middle. And then you can have two drastically different conclusions. One is like, well, I don't fit in with either versus, oh, I'm not either group that's hated, is a perspective.

• 14:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 14:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, and that we would have opposite ones, even though we're both one and a half generation.

• 14:35Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 14:38Dax Shepard?

  And then where did you go to college? I know ultimately you went to Johns Hopkins.

• 14:42Speaker 03

  Yeah, so then I went to college at Wellesley outside Boston. That was terrible. It was cold. I actually had a southern accent when I went to college and I had a professor pull me aside. He's like, it doesn't matter what you say, you sound like a moron. You need to get rid of that. And so I went to speech therapy to talk in like a normal person.

• 14:59Dax Shepard?

  Like a northerner, like a Yankee.

• 15:00Speaker 03

  Well, like a midwestern is actually the perfect English is what I was taught.

• 15:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that's newscaster.

• 15:05Speaker 03

  And there's certain words I still have a hard time saying, but that was Boston. Like, you're wrong and it's cold. And so I was like, mm, okay. And then I went to Baltimore. I actually loved Baltimore. Baltimore is running this multi-generational experiment where they have integrated low-income housing and high-income housing, which just means there's like low-income housing and then low-ish income housing. Cause like all the people with high-income housing just sort of leave. And then your students, so you're broke and you're like, I used to live near school. And so it's kind of dangerous. Like my parents, when they dropped me off, we drove by the penitentiary with all these guys with these huge guns. And my mom was like, so, we're just gonna leave her here?

• 15:40Dax Shepard?

  With her new accent?

• 15:41Speaker 03

  With her new.

• 15:41Dax Shepard?

  New newscaster accent?

• 15:43Speaker 03

  The new her.

• 15:44Speaker 01

  What if you just brought back the southern accent once you got to Baltimore? Cause they're like, you know what? You need to bring some of that southern.

• 15:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, you need to have. But actually, I feel like now, circling back, now it's really cool to have this sort of individualistic, like, oh, there's something different about you.

• 15:58Dax Shepard?

  Yes, as our culture has gotten homogenized through this online unity.

• 16:02Speaker 03

  Yeah, or it's like, what's special about you? My daughter just finished applying to college, or she started college, but it was like, yeah, what's special about you? Or what's happened in your life that's been really unique? She's like, I mean, I'm 17, so nothing. Nothing's happening and I'm not that unique.

• 16:16Dax Shepard?

  When I moved here from Detroit in 1995, it was like, we had our own music scene. We dressed different. There's none of that now. You're on TikTok. You're doing what everyone's doing.

• 16:24Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's like all melded together.

• 16:26Dax Shepard?

  I don't know that it's great. Regardless, okay, you ultimately ended up with a PhD in.

• 16:32Speaker 03

  My PhD is in biochemistry and molecular biology, whatever. You can say microbiology is the same.

• 16:37Dax Shepard?

  What were you initially setting out to, before you got capped? Divided by your current.

• 16:42Speaker 03

  So when I did my PhD work, it was in skin cancer. Cancer is a pretty big thing that lots of people do research on. So I thought that was interesting. And then I did a postdoc at Northwestern, so I lived in Chicago. We were trying to look for markers for early detection of children's kidney tumors. So WILMS tumors. Then I moved out to the Bay Area. I worked in a pharma company. We were developing drugs for Parkinson's disease. And then I worked in a startup company, which is like what you do. And I was running biology. We were making a DNA sequencing instrument. So I didn't really know anything about the microbiome until, actually, I read a paper that got me excited about it and I started this company.

• 17:16Dax Shepard?

  What was the paper about?

• 17:17Speaker 03

  It came from this professor at NYU, Marty Blazer. And he showed that babies who are six months and younger, who are on a lot of antibiotics, later in life were more prone to obesity and diabetes. And I had a preemie, two months premature, and she had been on antibiotics and all this stuff in the hospital before I took her home. And she was in elementary school at that time. And she had these food sensitivities that nobody else had. And I was like, this is the march towards diabetes. And the Mayo Clinic actually repeated that study. And they showed that if you're under two and you're on a lot of antibiotics, you're not only more prone to obesity and diabetes, you're also more prone to allergies, depression, asthma, ADHD, Crohn's, celiac disease. And it's all because when you're a baby, that antibiotic treatment is killing your microbiome.

• 18:02Speaker 03

  And for a lot of people, they can never recover it. So I was like, oh, my gosh, we could start a company to help millions of people, including my own daughter. And I have the technical knowledge with the sequencing and biology and all that to be able to do it. That's what actually prompted me to start the company.

• 18:15Dax Shepard?

  You bring me to I Contain Multitudes. I really recommend that book. It's so great. It's all about microbes and their place in the world and all the animals around us. And they do these crazy experiments with raised mice in a completely sterile environment where there'll be no microbes that get to them.

• 18:29Speaker 03

  The bubble boy mice.

• 18:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes. And the things that happen immediately are staggering. And what a clever experiment. You can find out almost right away what kind of microbiome they have normally and what it does for them. So I don't think people would know. So we got to do a little bit, what is a microbe? How have these come to live in concert with all these animals? And if you've not read that book, it's fascinating how interwoven we are with these bacteria.

• 18:51Speaker 03

  We've really co-evolved with them from day one. So, yeah, your microbiome is all these bacteria and viruses and fungi. They live inside you, on you, in all your nasal passages. It's sort of everywhere. And for the most part, they're actually really beneficial. We've co-evolved with them, meaning we're both getting benefit from hanging out together. But we, as a society, mostly try to kill them. And so in trying to kill the ones that have created disease or infection, we've inadvertently ruined an entire ecosystem that's actually here to benefit our health. And it's only now that we're starting to understand what is the ecosystem? How can we bring it back after realizing that antibiotics can actually cause these long-term problematic?

• 19:27Dax Shepard?

  And the sterilizing of our environment?

• 19:28Speaker 03

  Everybody buys antibacterial soap, antiseptic wipes.

• 19:31Dax Shepard?

  It's the epitome of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, right? It's like you might isolate the single microbe you want to get rid of at the expense of 9,000 that are good.

• 19:39Speaker 03

  Totally. It's like you go into your garden that you've been working on. You see a weed and you're like, bleach the whole thing. And so it's not that helpful for the garden.

• 19:46Dax Shepard?

  And to give people a sense of just how many microbes you have, A, they represent 1 to 3% of your total body mass. So 2 to 6 pounds you have of living microbes in you. And then even maybe crazier, because they don't weigh a lot, I guess, is they're 1 to 1, right? There's as many microbes as there are cells in our digestive tract?

• 20:06Speaker 03

  Seems like that's the case. There's how much they weigh, there's trillions of the 1 to 1 ratio. But also, when you think about how small they are and the diversity of what they can do, like you just have your genes and you can do the stuff with your genes. There are trillions of these things with hundreds of times more genes doing all kinds of stuff in your bodies.

• 20:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, the amount of DNA that's floating around you, right?

• 20:26Speaker 03

  The amount of DNA is like 100 times your genomic DNA.

• 20:28Dax Shepard?

  Why don't they pick up when they do these DNA swabs and stuff? Are they picking up the DNA of all these microbes when they do these? How are they delineating what's what?

• 20:36Speaker 03

  So technically, the way that you swab those, you are getting both microbes and human cells. But human cells are easier to break open than microbes are. So the way that they process and extract the DNA, the bacteria are mostly kept intact. So you're only extracting human DNA. If you want to extract microbial DNA, you actually have to do a lot more stuff to like break open their cells.

• 20:55Dax Shepard?

  This is the breakthrough that we've recently come upon you as being able to DNA sequence these microbes.

• 21:01Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 21:01Dax Shepard?

  When did that start and how did we figure that out?

• 21:04Speaker 03

  With DNA sequencing technology. So when I was working at this DNA sequencing company where we're making these instruments, those companies were the beginnings of the technology that enabled this science to exist. So if you look in like PubMed and you type in the word microbiome, before the year 2000, it's like a flat line at zero. And then you just start to see the This exponential growth of publications and knowledge about the microbiome.

• 21:24Dax Shepard?

  So about 25 years oldish.

• 21:25Speaker 03

  About a 25 year old science and medicine. Yeah.

• 21:28Dax Shepard?

  Wow. Okay. So one example I would say in the animal kingdom is like, there's many, many animals that without the microbes in their stomach, they would immediately die. They don't digest the food that they're eating. They're completely reliant on these microbes in their stomachs. We're not as deep on that spectrum, are we? We're a little more independent in that respect or not?

• 21:48Speaker 03

  Well, we have quite a few dependencies, but I'll tell you this crazy story about hyenas. You know, when an animal dies, there's all the animals that get first dibs on it and hyenas can like wait around until the carcass is basically rotting. And all the other animals like, I'm not gonna eat this, it's gonna make me sick. That's when they come eat.

• 22:02Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 22:02Speaker 03

  And so their oral microbiome is super interesting. You're like, how are they not getting sick? They have all these effectively antibiotics in their oral microbiome that are killing all those germs. So that's how they can eat this. So there's this scientist, I met him very early on in the company and he was researching hyena oral microbiome to understand are there new antibiotics we can find in there? Like what's going on?

• 22:24Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 22:25Speaker 03

  And in the course of trying to swab the mouth of a hyena, he got bit. So he goes to the ER, they're like, what happened? He's like, well, I got bit by a hyena. They're like, oh, you gotta like put all these antibiotics. He's like, no, no. I don't need any antibiotics because hyenas have the cleanest mouths. This is not going to get infected. And they're like, are you? Out of your mind. Signed 10,000 waivers and he never got any treatment.

• 22:45Dax Shepard?

  Really?

• 22:45Speaker 03

  They just put a bandage on it. I guess they sewed it up without any cleaning and he was fine.

• 22:49Dax Shepard?

  He's like one of these scientists who injected themselves with an early medicine and just waited to see what happened. That's bonkers.

• 22:57Speaker 03

  Wow. But wouldn't he be worried that obviously the hyena's mouth is good, but whatever it was eating would have bacteria and then that would get in there. There was like a few places where the judgment was a little weird. Okay. Yeah.

• 23:10Speaker 03

  But I met him because he was like, oh, I want you to help me sequence these hyena microbiome because I want you to tell me what's in there that's super different and interesting. And he tells this story and I was like, okay. I mean, you're kind of. Yeah, you're out on a.

• 23:21Dax Shepard?

  I know this about Komodo dragons, they don't have a poison, but they have so much bacteria in their mouth that when they bite their animals, that's what kills them, right?

• 23:31Speaker 03

  Yeah, and I think probably we as humans in general, because we've been living in shelter and things like that for a long time, and been killing these bacteria for a long time, we're probably the most susceptible to any of these sort of microbes or infections, because we've done the most to disrupt the system.

• 23:46Dax Shepard?

  This just hit me, it was not in my notes, we've been both dying to ask somebody who might know this, is I find it very curious that all the primates eat each other's shit, and that we are uniquely repulsed by shit, and my hunches were very weird in the animal kingdom that way, and I wonder at what point in our evolution did we start getting repelled by that smell, and I do wonder if it's when we started living in civilizations, and so what can we say about that? Do animals do generally eat each other's?

• 24:11Speaker 03

  They do, and like if you have a dog, they're sniffing butts, that's where they're getting all the information, but most animals are like, this is just part of living, and even eating feces and rolling in it, like horses, they roll in feces, they roll in the mud.

• 24:25Dax Shepard?

  We've been trained to think that's poison, but we can observe in other animals it's beneficial to them.

• 24:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, but that's because we started living together in small communities, and then it was kind of bad for us, because if you're an animal and you're roaming in the wild, you're moving around, you're not staying in this one spot, and all your stool is in one spot, which is why it's super interesting, these fecal microbiome transplants, how people are like, that's terrible, but you're basically eating somebody else's shit.

• 24:48Dax Shepard?

  Crap cell?

• 24:49Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 24:50Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's I think when we first got curious about this world, is learning that people with C. diff, so let's talk about C. diff a little bit, very common in hospitals, very common if you're on a long-term antibiotic cycle, yeah, my stepfather who died of prostate cancer, by the end, you know, he had terrible C. diff, and it was explained that that was just a result of having killed every other competing microbe, is that why?

• 25:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, like we all probably have C. diff right now inside us, and it's not a big deal, but it's the antibiotics kill off all the other guys, there's no competition, and then the C. diff can just start to reproduce unchecked, then that's when it becomes toxic and problematic.

• 25:23Dax Shepard?

  But they have a lot of success, right, with doing crapsols or stool implants?

• 25:28Speaker 03

  Incredibly, the most successful treatment is fecal. Fecal microbiome transplant. Ironically, the treatment for C. diff infection is more antibiotics. So they keep doing this and then you have these people that have the recurring thing. And then you can imagine their C. diff is getting more and more resilient. Yeah. You're like basically training it to be able to withstand all these antibiotics. But the fecal microbiome transplant, which is basically just flooding with competitors. That's the whole thing is incredibly effective. And yeah, like the FDA tried to take it off. People stormed the Capitol with their pitchforks.

• 25:57Dax Shepard?

  It's got like a 90 plus percent success rate.

• 25:59Speaker 03

  It's got like a 97% success rate.

• 26:01Dax Shepard?

  Versus virtually no success rate in the alternative strategies.

• 26:05Speaker 03

  Well, and the thing is the repercussions of a C. diff infection is death. Yeah.

• 26:09Dax Shepard?

  Cause you can't absorb nutrients, right?

• 26:10Speaker 03

  Right. And so you're like, well, um.

• 26:12Dax Shepard?

  What's the risk?

• 26:13Speaker 03

  Yeah. Exactly. The downside's pretty bad.

• 26:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. So yeah, that one got our attention. And then how substantiated are these links between depression, between obesity? How much do we know about this currently? And it's always hard to figure out when you read a headline, how much real science is in there? What do we know? And what's just kind of a hunch?

• 26:32Speaker 03

  The obesity one, we definitely have a lot of evidence on. Probably the most compelling thing is that there are two strains that we know to date that are able to directly stimulate your body's natural GLP-1. And that's literally how it works. You eat food, your microbiome digests it. You have these group of strains that then stimulate GLP-1 production and then go help your body metabolize through insulin release and then also tell your brain, hey, we're full. And that's actually how it's supposed to naturally work. And your GLP-1, of course, will go up and then it'll go back down. You'll get hungry again. You'll eat another meal. So that's actually your natural body system. That mechanism is known. It's very much linked to obesity.

• 27:12Dax Shepard?

  Really quick, I'm so glad you said that because my dumb assumption, like OCAM's razor was, oh, they don't have a microbe that's helping digest the food. They're not able to process it and expel it as fast. But it's not even that. It's the communication with the brain telling you you're not hungry.

• 27:28Speaker 03

  When you look at people with obesity, prediabetes and type 2 diabetes, they're actually low or entirely missing those microbes that do that processing and stimulate GLP-1. And so then what they lose is two things. They lose that signaling to insulin. And they lose that signaling to the brain. They're missing these and so they're not getting GLP-1 expression at the right time.

• 27:47Dax Shepard?

  What's the reigning theory on how someone could be missing those? Why would someone be missing those when so many others have them?

• 27:53Speaker 03

  There's a wide variety of things that can cause you to become depleted in those strains. The first is antibiotics. The second is your diet. So if you don't eat fibers and polyphenols, you're not feeding them. And so that's the second reason. But then there's a lot of stuff that's pretty out of your control. So stress can cause you to become depleted. Aging can cause you to become depleted. Travel, like circadian rhythms. So when day becomes night and night becomes day, that can cause you to become depleted. And actually hormones can cause you to become depleted. So like when women go through menopause, you become depleted. And so these are all just part of life that cause you to become depleted. And so there's a lot of reasons people might not have them. But antibiotics and diet are kind of the two most prominent ones.

• 28:30Dax Shepard?

  We don't see a big genetic marker that like, oh, this person makes a certain protein that's killing them.

• 28:36Speaker 03

  Well, I mean, that's actually a great question. I think that research is still too early to know the answer to that.

• 28:40Dax Shepard?

  When's the apex for microbes in your body? I didn't realize that they just diminish throughout time too, which is terrible.

• 28:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, really, when you think about when were you sort of at your optimal performance across the board?

• 28:54Dax Shepard?

  You could rewind this podcast, I probably say on every 10th episode. When I was 26, I smoked two packs of cigarettes a day. I ate every single meal at 7-Eleven, the two-for-one chili dogs. And I got drunk every night and I woke up and I felt pretty fucking good. And I'm 51, I haven't drank in 21 years and I have a perfect diet and a lot of mornings are rough. And I'm like, how good this be? Or I have an autoimmune condition now and I have allergies to food I never had. I'm like, I used to live like a trash can and it didn't bother me. Is that microbes were banging back then?

• 29:24Speaker 03

  Yes, and actually I would say this, people ask me all the time, like, what is a healthy gut? And a healthy gut is a resilient gut. So it means like you had the most resilient gut then. You could do all kinds of things that were assaulting it and it could make it through that and be fine. And as you were probably depleting it in lots of different things through your diet or lack of things that you're eating in your diet, then you got a less resilient gut. And now you're dealing with the repercussions of that. But the good news is actually you can change your microbiome even now, all the time you can. Change it. So whatever you're depleted in, let's say food sensitivities is a really common thing that happens as people age. And we know there's a strain called acromancy mucinophila.

• 29:59Dax Shepard?

  Say it one more time, it's sexy.

• 30:01Speaker 03

  That was really cool. Acromancy mucinophila. It is the only strain we know that's actually responsible for maintaining the structure of the gut lining directly. So your gut lining is sort of like a wooden fence. Okay, now you have to excuse me because I'm like not a carpenter and people have actually told me this is a terrible analogy. I'm gonna say it because most people still understand it, even if technically isn't how fences work. But imagine a wooden fence that has all these wooden planks and they're held together by glue. What can happen over time is that glue can start to weaken, a plank can fall, and now you have like a gap in your fence. The structure of your gut lining is actually exactly like that. So you have these planks, these epithelial cells, they're held together by glue, and over time that glue can start to weaken and you can get an opening or plank can fall and then you get what people call like leaky gut.

• 30:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 30:45Speaker 03

  And then you're sensitive to foods because stuff is just leaking out and it's causing all these kind of reactions in your body that shouldn't be.

• 30:53Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 30:58Dax Shepard?

  We are supported by Allstate. Checking Allstate first could save you hundreds on car insurance. That's smart. Not checking which platform you watch that new show on, so frustrating. 15 minutes later, you've logged into seven apps, reset two passwords, and still haven't found it. Yeah, checking first is smart. So check Allstate first for a quote that could save you hundreds. You're in good hands with Allstate. Potential savings vary, subject to terms, conditions, and availability. Allstate North American Insurance Co. and affiliates, Northbrook, Illinois. We are supported by HubSpot. Did you know that most businesses, Monica, only use 20% of their data?

• 31:35Speaker 01

  That's like reading a book with most of the pages torn out.

• 31:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, or paying for a coffee that's one-fifth full.

• 31:41Speaker 01

  Yuck.

• 31:41Dax Shepard?

  Point is, you miss a lot unless you use HubSpot. Their customer platform gives you access to the data you need to grow your business. The insights trapped in emails, call logs, and transcripts, all that unstructured data that makes all the difference. Because when you know more, you grow more. And when you get a full cup of coffee, you can do more too. But I digress. Visit hubspot.com today.

• 32:07Dax Shepard?

  This podcast is brought to you by Squarespace. We've talked before about Rob building our website on Squarespace and I bring it up again because it's a perfect example of what they do well. Rob had all the pieces, the content, the vision, the ideas, but he needed something to actually take all that and make it public facing and Squarespace was that bridge. Maybe you're in the same spot. You've been developing something, a business, a skillset, a body of work, and it's been private, it's been yours, but at some point you're ready to put it out there and that transition from private to public can feel like a huge leap. Squarespace makes it feel like a step. Beautiful templates, built-in SEO, email campaigns, scheduling, analytics, everything you need to go from I've been working on this to here it is, come find me.

• 32:52Dax Shepard?

  All in one place, no code, no stitching together a bunch of different tools. So if you've been sitting on something and waiting for the right moment, this might be it. Head to Squarespace.com/dax for a free trial and when you're ready to launch, use offer code DAX to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. This episode is supported by Helix.

• 33:16Speaker 01

  Dax, is there anything better than crawling into a perfect bed on a cold fall night? Candlelit, hoodie on, maybe even some rain outside, the dream.

• 33:26Dax Shepard?

  That's the dream. You just described one of my ideal fall nights.

• 33:31Speaker 01

  I know, and thanks to Helix, my bed actually lives up to the vibe. All I had to do was take the Helix Sleep Quiz and within two minutes they matched me to a mattress built for exactly how I sleep. I have a midnight mattress. It also has cooling technology, which I really.

• 33:46Dax Shepard?

  Increasingly so.

• 33:48Speaker 01

  I need it, I have to have it. And I heard that you're supposed to sleep at a cold temp for optimal sleep. It's very, very helpful.

• 33:58Dax Shepard?

  She is not wrong. I have one too, and it's been such a game changer for sleep and I love that they make it so easy. Free shipping right to your door and what they're happy with Helix guarantee, you'll get a full 365 nights to try it, a whole year to live in that cozy. They've got over 20 mattress models, so no matter how you sleep. They've got one for you.

• 34:18Speaker 03

  And it's not just us saying it. Helix has been named the most awarded mattress brand by Forbes, Wired and more. You gotta try it for yourself.

• 34:25Dax Shepard?

  Go to helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. That's helixsleep.com/armchair for 20% off sitewide. Helixsleep.com/armchair.

• 34:44Dax Shepard?

  Your body's a miracle and that is a completely sealed system. But you have this tube that's running through the dead center of this sealed system. You can think of a water weenie, that's gonna be my analogy, right?

• 34:53Speaker 03

  Oh, I like water weenies.

• 34:54Dax Shepard?

  Do you remember a water weenie?

• 34:55Speaker 03

  I don't know.

• 34:55Speaker 01

  They weren't called that.

• 34:56Dax Shepard?

  It's like a long balloon. No, I think they were.

• 34:58Speaker 03

  To you, they were.

• 34:59Speaker 01

  In your family, yeah.

• 35:00Dax Shepard?

  It's a rectangular balloon filled with water.

• 35:03Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 35:03Dax Shepard?

  But the inside, you can put your fingers in and you can roll it in and out of itself.

• 35:07Speaker 03

  The whole, remember they like they fall out of your?

• 35:09Dax Shepard?

  You play with one for sure.

• 35:10Speaker 03

  Yes.

• 35:10Dax Shepard?

  They're hard to hold.

• 35:11Speaker 03

  What are they called?

• 35:11Dax Shepard?

  Water weenies are what they were called when I was a kid.

• 35:13Speaker 03

  Okay, okay. Yeah, yeah, I know that, right.

• 35:15Dax Shepard?

  So your body is like that and your body is this master of, we don't want foreign things just entering the body willy nilly. So it goes down this tube in the dead center of our body and then our body is masterful of pulling everything out it needs and allowing it through this lining, absorbing it in right.

• 35:30Speaker 03

  Yep.

• 35:30Dax Shepard?

  And then things can go wrong and now we're letting in things that aren't supposed to be in there.

• 35:34Speaker 03

  Exactly, letting things in and out. And exactly to your point, it's very structured and organized and deliberate. And so when you have a hole in there, then you lose all that regulation. And so acromancia is the only strain known that lives literally right at that lining and it strips away that glue when it gets old and it makes new glue and it keeps your gut lining intact. And it's one of the key strains you lose as you age and so you can actually supplement it.

• 36:01Dax Shepard?

  Wait, does Pendulum make this exact?

• 36:03Speaker 03

  We were the first company to be able to manufacture and brought it to market. Now there's a lot of like copycats and by the way, so just as a buyer beware, if you go on Amazon and you type this strain name in, acromancia, you're gonna see a bunch of things on there that say acromancia. And one of my friends is a professor at Cornell, he just bought a bunch of them and sequenced them and he was like, Colleen, the only product that actually has acromancia is yours.

• 36:23Dax Shepard?

  That's

• 36:23Speaker 03

  So just be careful.

• 36:24Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and I was gonna save my pushing back, but I watched a great segment on 60 Minutes about gut health and the microbiome and the promise of probiotics and prebiotics and all this stuff. Most of the experts said, look, yes, this stuff can work, but we can't even get it to where it needs to be. Cause your stomach's killing all this stuff you're taking as a supplement. And it needs to be in your lower intestine. It's not gonna get there. Isn't that part of the problem is keeping the bacteria you would like to land in a certain spot alive?

• 36:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, that's the other thing to look for when you look at the capsule that the things are in. So we pay more for the capsule. It is enteric coated, which means it gets through the stomach acid. And it's time delayed release, which means it gets all the way to the distal colon.

• 37:01Dax Shepard?

  Where it needs to go.

• 37:02Speaker 03

  And so you need both of those, cause otherwise it's just going to your stomach, the acid's killing it.

• 37:05Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you spent eight dollars to kill this shit.

• 37:07Speaker 03

  And a lot of times that's why we tell people, take your probiotic with food. Is because that actually does decrease the acidity of your stomach. And so it can even help the probiotics get through.

• 37:15Dax Shepard?

  Wow, that's

• 37:16Speaker 01

  That's interesting.

• 37:17Dax Shepard?

  Fascinating. So how good are the results of that? I don't wanna get too excited, but I wanna get excited right now, cause this is clearly what I have.

• 37:24Speaker 03

  Well, you should take the product and let's talk in 90 days.

• 37:27Dax Shepard?

  And one.

• 37:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, let's see.

• 37:29Dax Shepard?

  I'll do a little experiment on myself.

• 37:30Speaker 03

  Yeah, and do it too. And the key thing is the one-two punch. So your microbiome is very tied to the food that you eat. And so it's like a high performing vehicle. You want an awesome engine and you wanna put awesome fuel into it. You can't have just one half of that. So the microbiome, you're gonna get acromancia, that's the engine part. And the fuel that's gonna be the high octane fuel that you want is fibers and polyphenols. So you either do it in supplement format.

• 37:52Dax Shepard?

  Polyphenols are in olive oil, right?

• 37:54Speaker 03

  Yeah, berries, if you eat those.

• 37:56Dax Shepard?

  I eat so many blueberries, you'd be so proud of me.

• 37:58Speaker 01

  I need more fiber.

• 37:59Speaker 03

  Okay, that's good.

• 38:00Dax Shepard?

  That's more you.

• 38:01Speaker 01

  I need more fiber and I don't know if I should start taking supplements. In my head, I don't wanna do that. I just wanna get it through food, but I'm not getting it through food.

• 38:09Speaker 03

  It's really hard actually to get how much fiber you're supposed to get through foods. And so it's not cheating if you're supplementing fiber through a supplement. So you should just think about that. Actually, we are launching a product in March, which is called Gut Fuel, which is a mix of fibers and polyphenols specifically designed to feed these, because not everybody can get it in their diet.

• 38:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's hard.

• 38:28Speaker 03

  It is hard. Like, how many people can do farm to table at every meal?

• 38:31Speaker 01

  And you have to have this much protein, this much

• 38:32Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 38:33Dax Shepard?

  And I don't want to already expose the whole interview we do with Angela Duckworth, but I'm reading her book right now and it's all about environment and the power of environment. And this three box modeling of how your brain works, which is you have a situation followed by a thought, then followed by a response. And people want to have lots of agency in the thought and the response. But we know statistically, changing the box of the environment is infinitely more successful. And anything you would tackle, so even GLP-1, she talks about this great physician who was reticent to go on it because he wants to have willpower. And it's like, you can think of the GLP-1 as the environment changer. And so the stupid shame we have about trying to only use willpower when there's these other levers we can pull

• 39:18Dax Shepard?

  is so weird about us.

• 39:20Speaker 03

  It's true, the shame. And then also, we had a customer, I got a chance to talk to him and it was an awesome story. So he's basically like, look, I have always had an addiction to sugar. I have always had a sweet tooth. That's just me. That's just my weakness.

• 39:33Dax Shepard?

  It's identity.

• 39:34Speaker 03

  That's me. So then he started taking, we have a product called Pendulum Glucose Control, which helps you lower your A1C and blood glucose by-

• 39:40Dax Shepard?

  This is what Halle Berry was on, when she was on, she talked about.

• 39:42Speaker 03

  Oh, okay. Yeah, exactly. That's what she's on and it stimulates your natural GLP-1. One of the things that people feel most is it reduces your cravings. Right. So this guy was on it for his diabetes and he said, I just want to tell you, I just went through Christmas and I could sit at a table with a plate full of cookies and I didn't eat a single one. But he broke down, he's like, that wasn't me. That was my microbes sending signals to my brain that I should eat sugar. And he'd had an epiphany about who he was and who he wasn't. Wow. And it was his environment. It was his environment inside himself.

• 40:11Dax Shepard?

  I think because we're a social primate, we're so hardwired for shame. It's such a great mechanism for social cohesion. I think we go to it immediately. It's like any kind of shortcoming we have is like, it must be me, I must be doing something wrong. Even this psoriatic arthritis, that's my autoimmune. My shame of, I fucked up my body and I rode motorcycles. It's gotta be my fault, all my joints are on fire.

• 40:30Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 40:31Dax Shepard?

  And I'm not even gonna look into it because clearly I just deserve this.

• 40:35Speaker 03

  It's weird, right?

• 40:35Dax Shepard?

  It is. I'd say that's a bug, not a feature, other than the social cohesion. Okay, let's talk about how it- Works initially in the birthing canal. Cause I think it's interesting to know, of course, when we are in the womb initially, we don't have any microbes. We're not born with microbes, you know, we don't grow with microbes.

• 40:54Speaker 03

  Well, it turns out there might be a couple in there.

• 40:56Dax Shepard?

  There might be a couple in there, right, but we're getting them from mom is my point. Generally, mom's gonna give us her microbes, yeah?

• 41:02Speaker 03

  That's the first seeding, yeah.

• 41:03Dax Shepard?

  So walk us through how you end up with this colony of microbes that should be helping you.

• 41:08Speaker 03

  When you're in your mother's womb, it is mostly sterile. There's a few microbes in there people are now discovering, but it's not in anything. I mean, actually, I shouldn't say that. We don't really know what are those microbes and what are they doing? And so there probably is something relevant happening there.

• 41:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 41:21Speaker 03

  The first real seeding of your microbiome is delivered through the vaginal canal. And so that's when you get your first seeding of all these microbes. And then the next is most babies, soon they're born, they go straight to breast milk. And so then breast milk becomes the second place. And so if you're born by C-section, you don't get that first seeding through the vaginal canal. And so that's a depletion. And like, there are some people who will try to replicate that.

• 41:44Dax Shepard?

  I was gonna say, can you? They'll take vaginal fluid and rub it on the chest and the baby, and then when the baby feeds.

• 41:51Speaker 03

  Yeah, to try to get that all started.

• 41:53Dax Shepard?

  Now, I've known this part, but I didn't know that part of that is fecal matter that you're getting.

• 41:57Speaker 03

  It's like, kinda mostly that.

• 41:58Dax Shepard?

  It's mostly, yeah, the baby's eating fecal matter? What? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 42:02Speaker 03

  See, it's not gross.

• 42:03Dax Shepard?

  It's not gross.

• 42:04Speaker 03

  It's the animal kingdom. It's the natural.

• 42:07Dax Shepard?

  Beautiful. The baby is eating it as it comes through the vaginal canal?

• 42:11Speaker 03

  Well, the baby's mouth isn't closed.

• 42:12Dax Shepard?

  It's trying to breathe.

• 42:13Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 42:14Dax Shepard?

  It gets its own, that's the problem, it can get a mycota, what's it called?

• 42:16Speaker 03

  Oh, yeah, yeah.

• 42:17Dax Shepard?

  It can get its own. That's bad, though, right? That's not good.

• 42:20Speaker 03

  Yeah. I mean, in the end, I think what we realize is there's a few key strains that they need to get during that time. And there's actually companies that are developing those strains. So if you don't wanna do the vaginal swab and you have a baby born by C-section, or even if you wanna bolster their microbiome, you can kind of deliver them these specific strains early on. And the mother's breast milk, a ton of it is actually the prebiotics, which is the food that feeds your microbiome.

• 42:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 42:43Speaker 03

  And so there's a ton of that in it. But then, getting back to Akkermansia muciniphila, they have never been able to find that. It's not like in yogurts or sauerkraut, you can't find it on any single food. The only place- They've actually found it is in mother's breast milk.

• 42:55Dax Shepard?

  By the way, I wasn't breastfed.

• 42:56Speaker 03

  Maybe you didn't have even the initial seeding. The idea is that you get it from your mom and then you spend the rest of your life trying not to lose this thing.

• 43:01Speaker 01

  Right.

• 43:02Dax Shepard?

  Fuck. What if I had breast milk now?

• 43:05Speaker 03

  Well, you could also just take the supplement. You can take breast milk if you wanted.

• 43:07Dax Shepard?

  I'm just curious. Would that populate my gut? Why wouldn't it?

• 43:11Speaker 03

  Yeah, it should be able to.

• 43:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay, if you're out there and you're nursing, I've talked to my wife.

• 43:15Speaker 01

  I wish we were able to just drink it. My brother's girlfriend is pregnant.

• 43:19Dax Shepard?

  Oh, we talked to her about.

• 43:20Speaker 01

  I did joke. I was like, I've heard it's liquid gold. I'll pay.

• 43:25Speaker 03

  It's a whole new business model.

• 43:26Speaker 01

  I mean.

• 43:27Dax Shepard?

  It's wet nurse 2.0.

• 43:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 43:29Dax Shepard?

  Wet nurse for adults.

• 43:30Speaker 01

  I wish our bodies could make it without having to be pregnant. I wish there was a way I could just start doing it.

• 43:35Speaker 03

  You're like feeding yourself.

• 43:36Dax Shepard?

  But you can't give yourself it.

• 43:38Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 43:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah. You can't give yourself something you don't have. That's why they always say you can't give someone else something you don't have.

• 43:44Speaker 01

  Okay, so then that's interesting though. So if someone is breastfeeding and they themselves were born from a C-section, do they even have it in their breast milk?

• 43:54Speaker 03

  Well, it's like one of the interesting questions about when you have a mom who has obesity or diabetes, they're more likely to have a kid with that.

• 44:01Dax Shepard?

  Environmental's always been the explanation.

• 44:03Speaker 03

  Right, and microbiome is environmental. Part of the question is like, okay, if you don't have the right starting microbiome as a mom, are you screwing your kid because you're not giving them all the initial? Because the first initial thing is through the vaginal canal, second is breast milk. And that's all they get until they start eating food, right?

• 44:18Dax Shepard?

  And can I ask, do we have any sense of what that percentage is? I'm asking selfishly because both of my children were C-section. And this is something my wife and I talk about, like, oh, what did they miss? They were breastfed. But what percentage are you picking up from the vaginal canal? And which percentage is coming from breast milk? Do we have any sense of that?

• 44:34Speaker 03

  The vaginal canal is mostly the bacteria themselves and the breast milk is mostly the food. That's like the body, that's how it takes, right? It gives you the strains initially and then the food is coming from the mother's breast milk. But it's possible, even if they were delivered by C-section, that they were able to get these strains. I mean, unless they have some kind of health problem that you're aware of.

• 44:52Dax Shepard?

  Oh, no.

• 44:53Speaker 03

  And this is the question about resilience or how some people are able to be fine with that. And then other people end up having lifelong chronic illnesses. We don't know the answer to that. And that could have to do with the person's genetics or the proteins they're making and things like that.

• 45:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so that's one step. And then, of course, again, back to multitudes, learn that people who have pets in their home. Have more microbes and a greater variety of microbes. And people with pets in their home have lower allergy rates.

• 45:20Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's actually specific to dogs.

• 45:22Dax Shepard?

  Dogs, yeah, yeah, I shouldn't have said pets.

• 45:23Speaker 03

  Because actually, when you have cats, it doesn't make a difference.

• 45:25Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so dogs.

• 45:26Speaker 03

  Yeah, because cats are scary.

• 45:27Dax Shepard?

  They're out there gathering.

• 45:28Speaker 03

  That's how I feel. I'm like a massive dog person. And I used to give these talks and I would be like, this amazing study that shows that if you have dogs, you have a better, more diverse microbiome, you have these less allergies. Anytime, anytime. So like, if you don't have a dog, you should go get a dog. But for cats, it doesn't make a difference whether you have a cat or not. Interesting. One thing before we get too far ahead, because I know that we're gonna get comments.

• 45:49Dax Shepard?

  About?

• 45:49Speaker 03

  From moms, because it's sensitive. Moms who couldn't breastfeed or didn't breastfeed. And then also had C-sections because the emergency C-section, whatever. That there's gonna be some fear and probably some like, "Bah, my kid's perfect." You know, that kind of thing. I just foresee it. So first of all, your kid might be perfect because there are these situations, obviously, not every baby born by C-section has these. And actually, not all babies who are on antibiotics end up with obesity and diabetes, right? So clearly, that's not the case. It's just that there's a higher risk or statistical significance associated with having those later on in life. And there's a rationale for why that is. But I think most formulas are designed to have these prebiotics in them. So the formulas are pretty good.

• 46:33Speaker 03

  But I will tell you one thing about this. One of the mistakes I made that I wish I had known was I pumped a lot of my breast milk and froze it so that, first of all, my husband could participate in feeding the children, but then also while I was at work. You take that out of the freezer and you heat it up and then you feed the baby. Well, if you're like a mildly impatient person like me, you put that thing on high and you like throw it in, you're like, okay, things will be like ready in four seconds. Then you kind of swish it around, you give to the baby. And that's actually really bad because when the temperature's too high, you're actually degrading a bunch of proteins in there and whatever acromancy was in there, like the microbes are all getting unfolded and killed by that heat. So that would be the biggest learning lesson that I wish I had known when I was. That's a great tip. Okay, and good to know about formulas. But I do want to address the mom thing too, because I actually think we talked about shame

• 47:18Speaker 03

  earlier. Nobody should feel guilty about having had to do a C-section versus a vaginal birth, or formula feeding versus breastfeeding. That's just early start to life things where you can optimize. These are all recoverable, and that's the beauty of the microbiome. You are constantly changing it, and you can constantly change it for the better. So there's always hope. It's not like your genes, where you're kind of like, this is what you get. Yeah, like, this is what I'm predisposed to, and I can't do anything about it. The microbiome, you can change.

• 47:41Speaker 01

  That's great.

• 47:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now, let's talk about the body's communication network, and how it's working with food, and metabolism, and hormones, and mood. I think we've all grown up thinking, like, your brain's behind a blood-brain barrier, and it's its own little separated thing. We've always thought of things very compartmentalized, and we're more and more realizing, no, no, this is all one big self-organizing complex system that's all communicating. So how is your gut regulating a lot of things that we wouldn't normally think it is?

• 48:08Speaker 03

  So if we want to hone on the gut-brain connection, first of all, your brain is kind of kept in a secure location, and the signaling to it and from it is pretty well regulated and fortified. That's good.

• 48:19Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, we don't want leaky brains.

• 48:20Speaker 03

  You don't want leaky brain syndrome. But your gut and your brain are actually tied together through a connector, a highway, called the vagus nerve. The first thing that people discover is, like, your gut makes a ton of neurotransmitters: serotonin, dopamine, GABA. And they're like, why would your gut be making all this stuff? And it literally can send those through the vagus nerve to the brain. I think that's interesting. But the more interesting thing is that there's actually neurons in your gut. And so the neurons in your brain, we all know, you kill them, they don't come back, you're kind of done. But the neurons in your gut, they're constantly regenerating. That's really cool, because that's a source of new neurons. The last really interesting thing is that I started my research career in Parkinson's disease. We were always looking at these plaques in the brain. Alzheimer's is the same thing. You kind of get these plaques in the brain. You're like, how do I get rid of these? Well, it turns out those plaques appear to show up in the gut neurons first.

• 49:04Speaker 01

  Really?

• 49:05Speaker 03

  So there's a theory that your gut neurons get messed up, then they're sending misfires to the brain, and so you could actually target the gut for things like Parkinson's and Alzheimer's to prevent them from getting to the brain.

• 49:18Speaker 01

  That's incredible.

• 49:19Speaker 03

  It's crazy.

• 49:20Dax Shepard?

  We're enlisted in an Alzheimer's study from Dr. Richard Isaacson.

• 49:24Speaker 03

  What are you taking?

• 49:25Speaker 01

  Well, we're not. So we keep getting our blood drawn.

• 49:28Dax Shepard?

  Well, he sends it all over the world. We get the most elaborate panels back you've ever seen. But he has this on stuff. I'm on omega threes and I'm on a different Zeta. Like, it's not a statin, but it works.

• 49:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:37Dax Shepard?

  In conjunction with. We are on things.

• 49:39Speaker 01

  And he's monitoring.

• 49:40Dax Shepard?

  You've been prescribed a lot of behavioral adjustments.

• 49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 49:44Dax Shepard?

  That you're in progress on.

• 49:46Speaker 01

  I pause.

• 49:47Dax Shepard?

  Needs to add some muscle mass.

• 49:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly. It was like your ratios. And then I got on a statin after that.

• 49:52Dax Shepard?

  But we've interviewed him and I didn't hear anything about this gut.

• 49:55Speaker 01

  Yeah, this is cool.

• 49:56Dax Shepard?

  Is the amyloid in there too?

• 49:58Speaker 03

  Those are those plaques, yeah. So if he's a practicing physician, this is too early for him to be able to put something to practice. Everything I just told you, like, okay, so now what? There's no product that he could give you. So that doesn't exist yet. This is just all the discovery that's happened to date that suggests you could start to target. And there are a lot of companies going after it.

• 50:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so the brain is talking to the stomach. And yes, even depression, you think, oh, depression is something in your brain. But not if all the chemicals are made in your stomach.

• 50:23Speaker 03

  Okay, not to make acromantia mucinovilla seem like this cure-all. But this paper just got published from this group in Taiwan. This is an animal model, so it's not humans. But it's actually really interesting. I didn't realize this about these mouse models. You can induce stress and anxiety in a mouse model and they behave like humans. And so what they did in this mouse study is they have like a placebo, which is just the animal. Nothing happens to it. It's like a normal, happy animal. Then they have a group that they stress out. Then they had a group that they stressed out and they gave acromantia to. And then a fourth group that they stressed out and they gave Prozac to. So this is like a head-to-head of acromantia to Prozac.

• 50:54Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 50:55Speaker 03

  Okay, so they give you this and then look at your behaviors before and after. And there are three behaviors in these animals. And okay, you can stop me anytime if you're like, you're nerding out way too much.

• 51:04Speaker 01

  No, we love this.

• 51:05Speaker 03

  I think it's fascinating. So there's these three behaviors they look at. The first one is they throw them into a pool of water. And when they do that, the mouse is immobilized for a second and then it'll start to swim to like get its way out. And you can actually track how long they're immobilized for. And if you're a healthy mouse, you're immobilized and then you start moving. And if you're stressed or anxious, you actually are immobilized for significantly longer. Before it clicks and you're like, okay, I gotta swim. And when you give them acromantia or Prozac, they look like the healthy mouse again. You've basically resolved that stress and anxiety behavior. The second behavior they look at is they throw a new op- In the cage and a healthy mouse will like check it out. It'll be curious. Spend a certain amount of time with it. A stressed or anxious mouse will leave it in the corner. Like maybe it'll check it out, but it doesn't spend hardly any time with it. And if you get a stressed mouse, either acromancy or Prozac, it becomes curious again.

• 51:48Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 51:49Speaker 03

  And then the third thing they look at is there's just a certain amount of movement, meters per day that the mouse moves around. And so a healthy mouse has a certain amount of movement. A stressed or anxious mouse moves a lot less. And when you give them acromancy or Prozac, they go back to having that normal activity level. So that's all at the behavioral level. And then we start looking at neurotransmitters and particularly cortisol levels and markers of neural activity. All of those, it's the same thing where the stressed out animal has lower levels. And when you give it acromancy, even in some cases, it was better than the Prozac.

• 52:18Speaker 01

  Really?

• 52:19Speaker 03

  And I think the theory is, is because acromancy makes a ton of GABA, which is known to like help reduce stress.

• 52:25Dax Shepard?

  People try to supplement with GABA. I don't know whether it works or not.

• 52:28Speaker 01

  What happens if you double up? Are you allowed to double up?

• 52:31Speaker 03

  We had this funny almost competition going on among our investors. They're like, I take eight a day. Well, one time I took 12 a day and they're like, okay. I don't need that much, but you could have a whole bottle in one day and be fine. I mean, you have to do all these safety studies.

• 52:41Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I mean more because I'm on an antidepressant. Can I have that and that?

• 52:46Speaker 03

  We have a lot of people who have actually reduced. Okay, here's my caveat with regulatory.

• 52:51Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:51Speaker 03

  We have not done a clinical trial on this.

• 52:53Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 52:53Speaker 03

  But we do have customers who have, with the help of their physicians, reduced how much drugs they're on through improving their microbiome.

• 53:00Speaker 01

  So cool.

• 53:01Speaker 03

  Especially because you're saying you don't get as much fiber in your diet as you want. There's probably room to supplement and get those strains higher.

• 53:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, I'm excited.

• 53:10Dax Shepard?

  Wow, we covered a lot on accident, which is great. Because when I stop at one cookie, we kind of covered that. That's the GLP-1.

• 53:16Speaker 01

  Do you think people should not be on GLP-1s and focus more on trying to reactivate these microbes?

• 53:24Speaker 03

  No, I'm not an anti-GLP-1er. If it's helping you, great. Personally, I would be nervous to be on a drug for decades and decades and decades. I would want to be using all the tools in my toolbox.

• 53:36Speaker 01

  The craving thing, that story that is. Exactly what people who are on GLP-1s say has happened.

• 53:42Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 53:42Dax Shepard?

  The food racket noise.

• 53:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, the food noise and it's a big deal.

• 53:46Dax Shepard?

  We're seeing so many collateral outcomes of it that are so beneficial. Even if you were someone losing five pounds, there's also cognition benefits. We've had 30 doctors on here. Everyone's pro GLP-1. Every time we do a study, we find out one other benefit from it. Your body is the greatest machine known to man for homeostasis. That's why opiates don't work. So you take opiates, they block your pain receptors. Your body's like, great, we gotta grow more. It's very hard to outsmart the body. So yeah, anything you're putting in it, the body has a way of generally adjusting back to the baseline.

• 54:18Speaker 03

  Well, and that's like insulin, which of course is one of the most prevalent diabetes treatments. That is what happens. Your body becomes basically deaf to the signal. And so then you have to get more and more and more. And so I'm definitely not against GLP-1s. But all the studies that have been done have been in people with type 2 diabetes. So most of the people who are healthy right now and taking them, they're part of the experiment. And so we don't really know the long-term repercussions. And for you, with your particular profile, what will happen to you? That individual case by case basis is getting hammered out literally now. And so we're gonna learn a lot.

• 54:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 54:49Dax Shepard?

  I'm already anecdotally seen some friends that have been on it now for four and five years. That the dose went up, the dose went up. Now they're capped off and the plateau's kind of ended. I've certainly watched that happen.

• 55:00Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:01Dax Shepard?

  Anecdotally, yes.

• 55:02Speaker 01

  Really?

• 55:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I know a few people that are capped at 15. And that's that, they're not going above 15.

• 55:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 55:08Dax Shepard?

  And the racket's returned a bit.

• 55:09Speaker 03

  And so this would be a great time for them to be like, okay, well, what are the things I can do to try to stimulate my natural GLP?

• 55:13Dax Shepard?

  What else?

• 55:14Speaker 03

  Yeah.

• 55:15Speaker 01

  I do think right now, maybe there's an uphill battle in the quote optimization space and even supplements of any kind. I think people are a little fatigued of hearing all these people say like, you gotta do this, you gotta do this, do this. I'm hearing like, ugh, I just don't want to hear about any of that right now. That's hard because obviously these things are important. But I also kind of get it that we're being thrown a lot of like, this is how you gotta live.

• 55:43Speaker 03

  You gotta take these 200 pills every day or yeah. And then you have to do sauna for 20 minutes and then you have to eat all protein. But also a ton of veggies. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, there's like a lot. God, it's overwhelming. I think that's right. Look, we are into creating probiotics and trying to help people via that mechanism. But the truth is, great nutrition will get you there. I mean, there's certain cases like Akkermansia where, look, it would help you to go like 90 day supplementation. But then you don't want to be on our products forever. Like I tell people all the time, do it for 90 days, get the strains in there. And then if you can eat the food that feeds them, you're good to go. And now something else might happen. You have to go on antibiotic, get back on it. But you don't have to take this every day for the rest of your life. Unless you're like, hey, I can't get the food that I need. Or this is just easier for me. Like, great. But if not, you can do it through nutrition that gets you there.

• 56:28Speaker 03

  And that's true with a lot of these supplements.

• 56:30Dax Shepard?

  And it has the advantage of the bacteria is not going to trigger this thing we were talking about in the body, which is it's just really good at leveling off. It's really good at figuring out a way to not take this medicine intervention or to become immune to it.

• 56:44Speaker 03

  Yeah, it's evolving.

• 56:45Dax Shepard?

  It works. You don't have to up your dosage of this or that. Once it's colonized and functional.

• 56:50Speaker 03

  You've now got its own ecosystem and you're just keeping it going, keep it thriving.

• 56:53Dax Shepard?

  Okay, what about microbiome as a public health tool? Or we talk about population level interventions? And how can we maybe start to attack some of these kind of big public health concerns with microbiome? 88% is the stat that was given to me of people are metabolically unhealthy.

• 57:09Speaker 03

  Right, so if we're talking specifically about metabolic health, first of all, we don't need anybody to tell us like obesity and diabetes. This is a massive global problem that is not actually getting better, even though we have lots of products out there. In fact, like a lot of people know, GLP-1s have been around forever. Yeah. And a lot of endocrinologists continue to prescribe insulin and metformin, because those are the things that have been around for a long time. And it wasn't until like regular people realized, hey, wait a minute, that's what made it popular. And so there's a lot of tools out there that people aren't using. And you have to ask the question, what is it about what we're doing now that is keeping that from being able to work? 88% of people are metabolically unhealthy. You might be thin, but you're actually metabolically unhealthy. And then you might be obese and you definitely know that you're metabolically unhealthy.

• 57:49Dax Shepard?

  We've had incredible success in vaccines. We've saved billions of people with that breakthrough. Antibiotics has saved hundreds and hundreds of millions of people. But we've reached a point. Where what most people are dying from are these four chronic conditions, diabetes, heart disease, dementia, Alzheimer's. And these are all metabolic conditions.

• 58:08Speaker 03

  Yeah, and what we know, and again, you don't need a scientist to tell you this, but you know that as you age, your ability to metabolize sugars gets worse, right? And your metabolism slows down and everybody

• 58:16Dax Shepard?

  Hangovers get worse.

• 58:17Speaker 03

  Hangovers get worse, you get food sensitivities, like all of that is happening. So I think fundamentally, the problem is that everyone says you can reverse diabetes and obesity simply by eating well and exercising. Well, it turns out it's not that simple to eat well and exercise. And then there's the shame of, well, why can't you control yourself? If you could, like, this is all on you, this is your fault. And I think the microbiome unlock is that even for somebody like Halle Berry, you know, they're exercising, they're eating well, and they're regimented about it. Even for them, how could they have a benefit from a microbiome intervention? Because you've just lost these microbes for reasons that we listed earlier. And so the big unlock and the epiphany of the microbiome is that might be a tool.

• 58:59Speaker 03

  You might be doing all those right things, or you might be able to reduce your cravings simply by having the right microbiome and optimizing that. And so if people listen to this, and there's just one thing you take away, it's become more aware about your microbiome and try for 90 days. And if you feel a difference, normally it's in food cravings and then sustained energy. Those are the two biggest things we hear. Because if you're not on like a sugar spike and crash all day long, you just have sustained energy throughout the day. You don't get the post lunch slump, you don't get brain fog. And some people experience better sleep, but your energy is just better. If you don't experience anything in 90 days, move on like it's something else.

• 59:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 59:32Speaker 03

  Try it.

• 59:32Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 59:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay, now selfishly, I want to ask this. I'm one of the few people that's trying to promote Diet Coke.

• 59:38Speaker 03

  Besides Coke.

• 59:39Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 59:40Speaker 01

  It's a Coca-Cola company, yeah.

• 59:42Dax Shepard?

  Yes, people love to say that Diet Coke destroys the microbiome. Is there any evidence of that?

• 59:47Speaker 03

  Yeah, this basically gets down to like all of the alternative sugars and what are they doing to the microbiome?

• 59:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 59:53Speaker 03

  So there are definitely good studies and evidence that those artificial sweeteners change your microbiome. And then that's the end of the sentence. So like, we don't know, yeah, in every individual, is it better, is it worse? What does it mean? And your microbiome is evolving, what does that mean for the other things that you're eating? So that's what we know. People love the storyline, but that's killing you so bad for your life. Well, the data has not come out on that yet.

• 1:00:16Dax Shepard?

  How did Halle Berry come to be involved?

• 1:00:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, so a lot of people don't know that Halle Berry has diabetes herself and has been able to manage it pretty well. But she can tell the story about like how she came to discover Pendulum through the Cleveland Clinic and tried it, which is like pretty crazy because she gets pitched stuff all the time, right? And we were like a brand new company at the time. I just can't even believe she'd be like, "Sure, I'll do it." So she went on and her A1C went down. And she kind of has said to me like, "Look, there's a lot of things that can have like a temporary effect." And so I wanted to be on it for a while to like see what happened. And it stayed down.

• 1:00:47Dax Shepard?

  One point maybe the first year and then two points?

• 1:00:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, like crazy.

• 1:00:51Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:00:51Dax Shepard?

  But that means nothing to me. How do we measure this? A point is a big deal, apparently?

• 1:00:55Speaker 03

  A point is a hu- a point could be the difference between having diabetes and not having it. It's like a huge number. What happens when you have diabetes is that your body can't metabolize glucose. And so you have a bunch of glucose molecules just like in your body. And so what your body does is it basically attaches it to your blood molecules, your HbA1C are actually blood cells. And it just attaches them to it. And so what we realized is that you can measure how many of your red blood cells have a glucose attached to it. And if it has above a certain percentage, well, you have diabetes.

• 1:01:24Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:01:24Speaker 03

  And so, can't remember the numbers, they sometimes change. But basically, I think like 5% and above, like that's not really great. And it can get all the way, you'll see people 12, 14, that's like really bad. But most people, I think, are sitting in the like 8 to 11 range. So getting down a point is like a pretty big deal.

• 1:01:41Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay, great.

• 1:01:42Speaker 01

  My dad monitors this constantly because he's pretty diabetic. I'm sending him this. This is really exciting.

• 1:01:49Speaker 03

  Yeah, so that's what she experienced. And she was like, "Okay." So then she said, "Well, I want to know about this company. Like, I want to meet the founder." So I get a call that says, "Halle Berry would like to meet you." I was like, "Is this my brother?" Like, shut up. So I get on this call and it's intimidating to be on a call with Halle Berry.

• 1:02:04Dax Shepard?

  She's tough, too. We interviewed her.

• 1:02:05Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:02:06Dax Shepard?

  She's a badass.

• 1:02:06Speaker 01

  She's so cool.

• 1:02:07Speaker 03

  She's not like accidentally this successful, right? Like, she's super smart. And so she basically said, "Look, I love this product and what you've built. And it's helped me and I know it can help a ton of other people. But you don't know anything about building a brand. And I know I'm kind of like good at that. And so I'd love to help you. How can I help you build a brand that's coming?" And build awareness around it. It was just such a genuine, I want to help people and I want to help you help people moment. She became an investor in the company. We gave her like a title of communications officer. She was like, first things first is like this packaging is terrible. And I was like, oh, it's not that. It's just a bottle. Who cares?

• 1:02:41Dax Shepard?

  She's like, exactly.

• 1:02:42Speaker 03

  Yeah. She's like, this is why you need me. And so she's like, look, it's true. It's what's on the inside of the bottle that counts. But you gotta get people to like, want to buy it.

• 1:02:49Dax Shepard?

  You can explain 90% of Mac's success, Apple's success in packaging.

• 1:02:53Speaker 03

  In packaging.

• 1:02:54Dax Shepard?

  And Steve knew.

• 1:02:55Speaker 03

  But I didn't know, and I guess I didn't learn. And so she was like, look, it just matters. And so she came up to San Francisco. We tried all these different packaging. We actually went through multiple iterations. The first one we launched was unsuccessful. It's actually been really cool to get to work with Hallie. She's super entrepreneurial, which I think you have to be to be a successful actor. But she also is really interested in learning and iterating. And so the packaging was an interesting one because we worked so hard on this thing. She was so proud of it. She put all these social media posts out around it. And then we got this feedback that people didn't like it. And it was like hard to open if you were a guy. It was Petri dish inspired. It was the exact dimensions of Petri dish, which we were like, that's so cool.

• 1:03:30Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 1:03:30Speaker 03

  And you open it like this, but it turns out if you're a woman, that's no big deal. But if you're like have man choppy hands, they were like spilling it everywhere. They couldn't open it.

• 1:03:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:03:38Speaker 03

  Yeah, like their meaty hands. Yeah, them.

• 1:03:40Dax Shepard?

  Microbes are everywhere.

• 1:03:42Speaker 03

  Our primary business is retained customers. And so the retention was lower for that.

• 1:03:47Dax Shepard?

  Interesting.

• 1:03:48Speaker 03

  So I have to like get on this call with Hallie and be like, people don't like it? It's not great for the business. It's really different. Like when you put out a movie, you're not like, oh, people don't like it. Let's just take it back and redo it and put it back out again. That's not a thing. And so I was like, okay, so we need to take this off the market and do it again.

• 1:04:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:04:02Speaker 03

  And she was like, all right, we gotta listen to people. We're here to serve people and if they don't like it, let's do it. And I was like, okay. And then we just did a new packaging launch this July and it's been awesome. Old customers that have been with us for years, they were like, I was always on your side about like packaging doesn't matter. But actually it does. They just really like this.

• 1:04:18Dax Shepard?

  I have a beer company. We lose money because I want the package to be so great. And I want the can to be so cool when you grab it.

• 1:04:24Speaker 03

  And especially for something you're consuming and something that you're having a daily interaction with. That feeling that you get is in the packaging, the emotion of it. And so I'm grateful to her for bringing like, what does the brand experience need to feel like? Alongside obviously the product and the science behind it. And so she's been an amazing partner. We've been partners now for like four years. We've known each other. She's awesome.

• 1:04:46Dax Shepard?

  It's so frustrating that you even have to think about. That really because you're like, the thing works. Can people just forget about this other piece? Eventually they do when they do take it and they like it. But getting people to pick it up off the shelf or go to the website is hard. I'm a regular consumer of Aleve because of the autoimmune thing, the aforementioned. And they make one bottle with like a rubber top that's red. I love it. Yeah. I'll spend more. It's the same fucking Aleve in the bottle, but I gotta reach in and grab it. And I like that experience and I don't like the other one of pinching the thing.

• 1:05:19Speaker 03

  It matters. Well, and probably the most compelling thing is there are other probiotics out there that have beautiful packaging and great marketing and branding. But their ingredients are basically the same as everything else out there. And she's like, you're losing to these competitors and it's just packaging.

• 1:05:34Dax Shepard?

  And they don't even have the thing.

• 1:05:35Speaker 03

  Okay.

• 1:05:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:05:36Speaker 03

  Let's do it.

• 1:05:37Dax Shepard?

  Well, Colleen, I like you. Me too. You're fun. I'm so excited to try this. Most people I know from Atlanta are really cool. Yeah.

• 1:05:46Speaker 03

  One and a half generations.

• 1:05:48Dax Shepard?

  I only know one and a half generation non-white folks from Atlanta. So that's maybe just more a comment on that. Oh, we're gonna try it and we're gonna, yeah, I'm excited.

• 1:05:57Speaker 03

  We're the only probiotics company that the Mayo Clinic has invested in. And they've invested in multiple rounds in us. We are sold through over 30,000 healthcare practitioners. So that's like doctors that are recommending the product. And we just got the number one GI doctor recommended Akkermansia brand. But how do you get like those crystal bullet points? It's like still a lot of words, right?

• 1:06:15Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. And you don't want your product to be just a bunch of writing all over it.

• 1:06:18Speaker 03

  Yeah, yeah. How do you make people feel like this is the cutting edge thing without all those words?

• 1:06:22Dax Shepard?

  That's right. And that's emotional and it's visual. And it's actually not as intellectual as we think it is. We get a feeling right away.

• 1:06:30Speaker 03

  Exactly. And so I will say my biggest weakness is that as a scientist, I'm thinking like, how do you get people to love it trainingly? Like what I just listened to you guys, like, oh, that would obviously make you believe.

• 1:06:40Dax Shepard?

  Yes.

• 1:06:40Speaker 03

  And so I am actively looking for help from people who are like actually viscerally. And so to the point about clean lines, the new packaging, it feels soft when you touch it.

• 1:06:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, nice.

• 1:06:51Speaker 03

  And it just has the name of the product on the front and all the like words about what's in it. And all this is actually on a packaging that you throw out. The bottle itself is really clean. And feels good. And so I'm like, okay.

• 1:07:01Speaker 01

  I'm gonna have my dad on it and I'm gonna be reporting back on his levels.

• 1:07:05Speaker 03

  I'm gonna be like bugging you guys and asking you to help me.

• 1:07:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm selfishly just wanting to put me on it. If I could eat gluten again.

• 1:07:12Speaker 01

  Oh, that'd be so cool.

• 1:07:14Dax Shepard?

  Garlic again.

• 1:07:15Speaker 01

  You're really missing out on garlic.

• 1:07:17Dax Shepard?

  My life is half as good since I quit eating garlic.

• 1:07:20Speaker 01

  You can't eat garlic right now. Right now. Right now.

• 1:07:23Speaker 03

  Right now, yet. Yes. Get it back.

• 1:07:26Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's lovely meeting you. This is such a fascinating topic. I think a lot of people are very interested in this. But again, it's one of these things. CRISPR comes out, whatever the first NPR thing I heard was like 13 years ago. And I think, oh, my God, overnight, they're gonna fix all these genetic disorders. When is it happening? And then you hear this microbiome, we make all these links, but it's like, when is it gonna actually start helping us? But I do know we're on the cusp of all these things, but it can get a little fatiguing. Like, when is it gonna happen?

• 1:07:51Speaker 03

  When's it gonna happen? And actually, one thing that doesn't happen can set the whole industry back. CRISPR is a good example of that. Like, gene therapy was really hot. There was like one adverse event and then everyone went ice cold on it. And then it comes back in the form of CRISPR. These things happen. It takes a long time to change our biology, as it turns out. That's why I think for us, it was so exciting to have this intervention that can lower A1C and lower blood glucose spikes. As well as essentially a pharmaceutical, but it's this microbiome intervention. And one huge difference between our company and all the other companies that have been going after it with discovery platforms and doing real science. I don't wanna like bash anybody, but most of the consumer products aren't actually doing real science and investing in that.

• 1:08:33Speaker 03

  And almost every one of the microbiome companies that's investing in science is doing a drug path. We're like the weirdos. We're the ones who've done all the science but are bringing it to consumers. And so that ability to have a new microbiome intervention, it's the first and only probiotic that can help with diabetes.

• 1:08:49Speaker 01

  That's so cool.

• 1:08:50Speaker 03

  I'm super excited for you guys to try them.

• 1:08:52Speaker 01

  Yes, absolutely.

• 1:08:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, thanks for coming.

• 1:08:54Speaker 03

  This is great. Yeah, thank you, guys. Yeah, great to meet you.

• 1:08:57Dax Shepard?

  Good luck with everything.

• 1:08:58Speaker 03

  Thank you.

• 1:09:01Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert if you dare.

• 1:09:08Dax Shepard?

  This episode is brought to you by ServiceNow. Look, I have my dream job. I get to talk to folks I admire like crazy and ask them virtually any question that I want to. I can't imagine a better way to spend my time. But even dream jobs have some not so dreamy parts, the stuff that gets in the way of the actual work. Now that's where ServiceNow's AI specialists come in. They don't just tell you what you should do about your busy work. They actually do it, start to finish, cases closed, requests handled, no extra work for you. So you and your team can focus on what matters most, which for me is, are they obsessed with male bodies on the same level as I am?

• 1:09:50Speaker 01

  They never are.

• 1:09:51Dax Shepard?

  To learn how to put AI to work for people, visit servicenow.com. We get support from Superhuman. Look, I love what I do. The conversations, the ideas, the creative stuff, but there's this whole other layer of work that eats my day alive. The inbox that never ends. Docs I need to get through, threads I'm behind on. And by the time I've dealt with all that, the stuff I actually want to focus on gets whatever's left. What I needed was something that just works where I'm already working. Not another tab to open, not another thing to set up. Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly, is different. It's already right there. Inside your email, your docs, your browser, you don't go to it. It's already working alongside you. You're deep in a long thread, highlight

• 1:10:36Dax Shepard?

  it, and it pulls the key points. About to send something important? It flags what doesn't add up before it leaves your hands. It knows your style, your workflows, and it just backs you up without getting in the way. A thought partner that's already up to speed, at your service, not after your job. So do yourself a favor and try Superhuman Go, from the makers of Grammarly. Find out more at superhuman.com.

• 1:11:01Dax Shepard?

  We get support from our sponsor Lilly. For adults with obesity or with excess weight and weight-related medical problems, it's time to find out about Foundo or for Gleepran. Foundo is a once daily prescription GLP-1 medicine used with a reduced calorie diet and increased physical activity to help adults with obesity or some adults with overweight who also have weight-related medical problems to lose excess body weight and keep the weight off.

• 1:11:26Speaker 05

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• 1:12:06Speaker 05

  Once daily Foundo is available by prescription only in 0.8 milligram, 2.5 milligram, 5.5 milligram, 9 milligram, 14.5 milligram, and 17.2 milligram tablets. Learn more at foundo.lilly.com or call 1-800-LILY-RX. Now is perfect to talk to your doctor about Foundo.

• 1:12:24Dax Shepard?

  This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. If you've thought about trying therapy with our long-term partner BetterHelp, insurance options may now be available nationwide with an average copay for eligible members of just $23 per session. October 10th is World Mental Health Day, but you don't need a day on the calendar to give yourself permission to talk to someone. I've been in therapy for a long time and the stuff rattling around in my head always just quiets down the second I say it out loud. And it doesn't have to be some big life crisis. Maybe it's a work thing that's taking up too much space, or hard relationship moment, or just a feeling that something's off. That's enough. That's worth talking about.

• 1:13:02Speaker 01

  You know, I love therapy more than anything. Gets me through. Often I'll want to cancel because I'm like, I don't really have anything to talk about. And then I'll go and... I have some major revelation.

• 1:13:13Dax Shepard?

  You know, I was just talking to a friend who has just started it. And I said, one of the most powerful elements of it is just hearing yourself say out loud, the thing that's been ruminating in your head and how different it sounds. Once it's out into the world, you gain perspective immediately just by hearing yourself say it.

• 1:13:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, you do.

• 1:13:29Dax Shepard?

  If you've been waiting to start therapy, BetterHelp works with more than 125 health plan networks and eligible members have an average copay of just $23 per session with insurance. Don't have insurance or live outside the US? You can still get 10% off your first month. Do yourself a favor and just try it. Future you will be grateful. Visit betterhelp.com/dax to explore your payment options. That's better H E L P dot com slash DAX.

• 1:14:01Dax Shepard?

  Hi there, this is Hermium Hermium. If you like that, you're gonna love the fact that Miss Monica.

• 1:14:08Speaker 01

  Hi.

• 1:14:09Dax Shepard?

  Hello. We're recovering and I think we need to be honest about the fact that we're recovering from a story we just heard.

• 1:14:17Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah.

• 1:14:18Dax Shepard?

  We heard, this is a hard claim to make, but top three most bonkers stories we've ever heard on Armchair Anonymous.

• 1:14:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, it's on the first responders episode.

• 1:14:30Dax Shepard?

  Yes, it is.

• 1:14:30Speaker 01

  And it is really something. It's disturbing.

• 1:14:35Dax Shepard?

  It was disturbing. Uh, it was unsettling.

• 1:14:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:14:38Dax Shepard?

  And it was also great. I feel very privileged to have heard such an insane story.

• 1:14:42Speaker 01

  I'm very nervous that the protagonist in the story is gonna like show up at my door.

• 1:14:49Dax Shepard?

  Okay, not the person who told us the story, but the who it's about.

• 1:14:52Speaker 01

  Yeah, the main character.

• 1:14:54Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:14:56Speaker 01

  And appear at my window.

• 1:15:00Dax Shepard?

  Holding his.

• 1:15:05Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:15:08Speaker 01

  Speaking of body parts, I guess, or being exposed.

• 1:15:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:15:14Speaker 01

  Someone popping out.

• 1:15:17Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I pop out.

• 1:15:19Speaker 01

  Uh huh. We forgot to put a door on my, where I potty.

• 1:15:25Dax Shepard?

  Your toilet.

• 1:15:25Speaker 01

  My toilet room, my water closet.

• 1:15:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 1:15:28Speaker 01

  And it was in the plan from the beginning, it just, it somehow, it got missed.

• 1:15:32Dax Shepard?

  These things happen.

• 1:15:33Speaker 01

  They happen. And it is so interesting because at my apartment, I would, in the night, or whenever, I would like pee and stuff, but I never closed the door.

• 1:15:45Dax Shepard?

  Right, of course not.

• 1:15:46Speaker 01

  Now, when I'm in there, I feel so exposed.

• 1:15:50Dax Shepard?

  But do you think that's because you know there are lots of people working in your house still?

• 1:15:54Speaker 01

  No, it's like in the night, I feel very vulnerable.

• 1:15:57Dax Shepard?

  I don't use mine. I have a little door on my toilet area.

• 1:16:01Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:16:02Dax Shepard?

  Unless the kids forever were like, I don't know how they're impervious to whatever. They come in and chat with me and I'm like, I can't believe they're not commenting on the smell.

• 1:16:11Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:16:12Dax Shepard?

  But they've reached the age where now they come in and they're like, oh, and I'm like, I don't want to be shamed every morning.

• 1:16:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:16:19Dax Shepard?

  Um, but if they weren't in the mix, I would never shut that door.

• 1:16:22Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, I wouldn't have expected to really need one, but I do.

• 1:16:28Dax Shepard?

  Now you do.

• 1:16:28Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I don't, I don't like that.

• 1:16:31Dax Shepard?

  Now, when you go in the middle of the night, are you suggesting that when you have a door, you will close the door behind you when you go pee in the middle of the night?

• 1:16:37Speaker 01

  I wonder if in the night I won't, but I definitely will in the morning.

• 1:16:40Dax Shepard?

  You will?

• 1:16:41Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:16:42Dax Shepard?

  For your pooty time?

• 1:16:43Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:16:43Dax Shepard?

  Uh, that's generally what you're doing in the morning, I would assume.

• 1:16:46Speaker 01

  I do have a, I have, I'm very regular.

• 1:16:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:16:50Speaker 01

  Um.

• 1:16:51Dax Shepard?

  But you want to close it, even when you're in the house by yourself?

• 1:16:54Speaker 01

  Yes, even when, when there's a number two, I want it closed.

• 1:16:58Dax Shepard?

  You want to contain that?

• 1:17:01Speaker 01

  It's not even about that. It's, it's, it's about feeling like very vulnerable.

• 1:17:06Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:17:07Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:17:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:17:10Speaker 01

  So I guess I'll report back once the door is there. I mean, it's also such a ding ding ding because we didn't have a door upstairs for so long and it was

• 1:17:17Dax Shepard?

  It's a blessing.

• 1:17:18Speaker 01

  A big part of our, our history and our lore.

• 1:17:21Dax Shepard?

  Our origin.

• 1:17:22Speaker 01

  Our origin story. So it was like, very sim.

• 1:17:25Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:17:27Speaker 01

  Um, but no one was going duty in there.

• 1:17:29Dax Shepard?

  No.

• 1:17:30Speaker 01

  I want to transition to something not kid friendly.

• 1:17:34Dax Shepard?

  Okay. So if you're a kid, turn off the show.

• 1:17:38Speaker 01

  Now, this is a weird question.

• 1:17:40Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:17:40Speaker 01

  But, but I was wondering, I mean, maybe you're not allowed to answer this, but.

• 1:17:45Dax Shepard?

  I'm in a new era, which is very unexpected. Didn't, I didn't expect to be in this era.

• 1:17:50Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:17:51Dax Shepard?

  Well, I feel like for eight years I've been saying whatever I wanted and no one gave a shit.

• 1:17:55Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:17:55Dax Shepard?

  And like recently in the last three or four months, like a lot of stuff I say ends up

• 1:18:00Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:18:01Dax Shepard?

  is a news thing. And I gotta say, it has, it's bothered me.

• 1:18:04Speaker 01

  But it's, uh, yeah, that's fair.

• 1:18:06Dax Shepard?

  I'm just like, do I want the headache? Like if you ask me if I want my butt with my hand, it's like normally I would have asked, answered that. And now I'm like, I can't bear to.

• 1:18:14Speaker 01

  No, you have to because.

• 1:18:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:18:17Speaker 01

  It's easy to.

• 1:18:18Dax Shepard?

  I'll do it.

• 1:18:19Speaker 01

  No, also because the real controversies are cut. So like what it shows me is just they're gonna find something.

• 1:18:28Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:18:28Speaker 01

  That's dumb and nothing. So you might as well just say.

• 1:18:31Dax Shepard?

  Let it rip.

• 1:18:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, let it rip. Okay.

• 1:18:33Dax Shepard?

  I don't know if that's great advice, but let's continue.

• 1:18:35Speaker 01

  This is a masturbating question.

• 1:18:37Dax Shepard?

  Oh, okay.

• 1:18:37Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:18:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:18:38Speaker 01

  Now, do you ever like?

• 1:18:40Dax Shepard?

  I've never masturbated.

• 1:18:43Speaker 01

  That shepherd says he's never masturbated.

• 1:18:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that would be a, somehow that would be bad too. Okay. All right. Uh, masturbation question.

• 1:18:50Speaker 01

  Have you ever been just like, okay, I'm gonna masturbate now. I mean, I know you have, both of you have. Um, and is it, has it ever been random and then like you realize your environment?

• 1:19:02Speaker 01

  Isn't, okay, I need to ask more specifically.

• 1:19:04Dax Shepard?

  It also feels like you're telling us a little bit about what's happened in your new house, but you're gonna.

• 1:19:10Speaker 02

  Pretend like you're not.

• 1:19:11Dax Shepard?

  That it's our story.

• 1:19:12Speaker 01

  Like, what if you got, have you guys ever done?

• 1:19:15Dax Shepard?

  You ever been in your new house and you decide you wanna masturbate there, but then you feel out of sorts there?

• 1:19:21Speaker 01

  Yeah, no, that's not it.

• 1:19:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:19:23Speaker 01

  Um, sometimes I get the, the desire.

• 1:19:27Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:28Speaker 01

  At random. It has nothing to do with like.

• 1:19:31Dax Shepard?

  You didn't see it on?

• 1:19:32Speaker 01

  What I'm watch, exactly, what I'm watching, what I'm thinking about. It's just like, oh, like.

• 1:19:37Dax Shepard?

  You feel the surge of whatever endorphins tell you that's the time, yeah.

• 1:19:41Speaker 01

  So, I guess I'll just say the deets.

• 1:19:44Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:19:44Speaker 01

  So, I was, I was in my house.

• 1:19:46Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:19:47Speaker 01

  And, um, I had the TV on.

• 1:19:49Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:50Speaker 01

  Kind of in the background. It was just sort of on.

• 1:19:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:19:53Speaker 01

  And I was like on my computer and blah, blah, blah. And then I was like, hmm, okay, it's time.

• 1:19:58Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:19:58Speaker 01

  So, I get my.

• 1:20:00Dax Shepard?

  Friends.

• 1:20:01Speaker 01

  Yeah. I got my, I brought my friends down.

• 1:20:04Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:20:05Speaker 01

  And, um, in the middle, I realized that the TV was still on.

• 1:20:12Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:20:13Speaker 01

  And what was on was "Nobody Wants This."

• 1:20:17Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow, okay.

• 1:20:18Speaker 01

  And I, all of a sudden, I felt really we.

• 1:20:22Dax Shepard?

  Exposed.

• 1:20:22Speaker 01

  This whole, this whole episode is me being exposed. I didn't feel exposed. I felt like, oh, no, no, oh, no, like.

• 1:20:30Dax Shepard?

  Bone kill, we would call it.

• 1:20:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, well, no, it didn't like stop my, it, it was just like some, this is bad. It felt like this is bad.

• 1:20:40Dax Shepard?

  Like your mom was watching?

• 1:20:41Speaker 01

  Not that she was watching, but like, but I shouldn't be doing this while she's on my TV.

• 1:20:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, while your friends watching, but not watching.

• 1:20:50Speaker 01

  But no, it was not about her watching. It's more like.

• 1:20:53Speaker 02

  Getting caught and then being on the TV?

• 1:20:55Speaker 01

  No, it's more just like, it's not.

• 1:20:58Dax Shepard?

  It's sharing this space.

• 1:21:00Speaker 01

  Like, okay, like if you were and you look over and you had a framed picture of your mom.

• 1:21:05Dax Shepard?

  Aye.

• 1:21:06Speaker 01

  Exactly. You're like, oh no, like I don't, or a video of her just go.

• 1:21:12Dax Shepard?

  Oh, Jesus Christ.

• 1:21:13Speaker 01

  Exactly. So, yeah, so it not, so it was like, oh, oh.

• 1:21:17Dax Shepard?

  So you did turn off the?

• 1:21:19Speaker 01

  Yeah, I turned the TV off. And I wondered if you'd ever had any experiences.

• 1:21:22Dax Shepard?

  Where I all of a sudden felt very weird and awkward.

• 1:21:26Speaker 01

  Yeah, like, oh, this is not appropriate.

• 1:21:29Dax Shepard?

  Well, all of my early teenage years.

• 1:21:33Speaker 01

  You felt.

• 1:21:34Dax Shepard?

  I felt a lot of that, like, oh, my God, I'm in my house, or I'm, you know, like, I felt like I should be in a field somewhere where no, you know, like I. Yeah, the notion that my mom would know or something was terrible, my family.

• 1:21:49Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:21:50Dax Shepard?

  And I felt bad, like I felt lascivious for doing it.

• 1:21:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:21:54Dax Shepard?

  Which, again, I can't explain, because I had a very sex-positive mother. I wasn't religious. I don't know. I think I sensed a little bit of, like, I don't have control. Maybe that's the thing that was scaring me, like, oh, I have to do this. I think in my, my first feelings of powerlessness.

• 1:22:16Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:22:17Dax Shepard?

  That I learned to embrace, obviously.

• 1:22:18Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:22:19Dax Shepard?

  Throughout my addictive life. But I definitely think I was a little bit like, oh, I think I had this inkling, like, I can't stop this if I want to. Because I, as I told you, I did try to stop at times, and I had these, I'd have these crazy compromises.

• 1:22:33Speaker 01

  What do you mean?

• 1:22:33Dax Shepard?

  I was like, I was allowed to do it for a bit, but not all the way.

• 1:22:37Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:22:38Dax Shepard?

  Which was just agonizing. Yeah, yes.

• 1:22:43Speaker 01

  That's weird.

• 1:22:43Dax Shepard?

  Because then that was, because also that's when the guilt would.

• 1:22:47Speaker 01

  Part?

• 1:22:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I guess that's the bad part. And that's when the guilt would set in post that.

• 1:22:51Speaker 01

  What was the guilt? Was the guilt like?

• 1:22:54Dax Shepard?

  Like I was just too bad or perverted?

• 1:22:56Speaker 01

  Perverted.

• 1:22:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, again, I didn't have a dad that was like, son, you're gonna start cuffing your carrot, and that's fine, you know, maybe that's what I was missing. He would have been happy to tell me that, but he just didn't.

• 1:23:08Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:23:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:23:10Speaker 01

  Yeah, there is something about like, oh, I'm perverted.

• 1:23:13Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:23:13Speaker 01

  Huh, which is. Just normal. It's not.

• 1:23:16Dax Shepard?

  Of course, it's completely normal. That's what I'm saying. That's the dissonance for me. I don't know why I had a hang up about it. I shouldn't have.

• 1:23:24Speaker 01

  Mm hmm.

• 1:23:24Dax Shepard?

  I had the perfect, probably situation to not have any guilt about it, but I still did.

• 1:23:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, so it's just human.

• 1:23:31Dax Shepard?

  I think it's like the like that that original sin feeling like we we have all this like this. There's something curious that goes on with us.

• 1:23:39Speaker 01

  Do you think maybe men have a like? Guilt about? Well, obviously it's like societal and stuff, but maybe it's also biological. Maybe it's like you wasted one.

• 1:23:49Dax Shepard?

  Oh, wow. Like evolutionary.

• 1:23:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Cause like women, obviously that comes more like than you're like dirty.

• 1:23:57Dax Shepard?

  I might have had a little bit of like gay hurdle.

• 1:24:00Speaker 01

  Oh, yeah, but that's weird.

• 1:24:01Dax Shepard?

  I'm playing with a penis.

• 1:24:03Speaker 01

  Oh, interesting.

• 1:24:06Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and at the beginning of my experience, my journey.

• 1:24:11Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:11Dax Shepard?

  I wasn't even. Like I wasn't fantasizing about a girl. I hadn't had done any of that stuff.

• 1:24:17Speaker 01

  It was just.

• 1:24:18Dax Shepard?

  It was just the sensation of it.

• 1:24:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:21Dax Shepard?

  Which I don't know if that.

• 1:24:24Dax Shepard?

  Uh, auto erotic. I don't know. I don't know. It doesn't make any sense that I had issues, but I did.

• 1:24:30Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:31Dax Shepard?

  You never forget. Do you remember exactly the first time you did it?

• 1:24:33Speaker 01

  Uh, yeah.

• 1:24:34Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:35Speaker 01

  I do.

• 1:24:36Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. Same, Rob?

• 1:24:37Speaker 02

  Yep.

• 1:24:38Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:24:42Dax Shepard?

  It's so funny.

• 1:24:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:24:44Dax Shepard?

  Where is little monkeys, you know?

• 1:24:46Speaker 01

  Just little monkeys.

• 1:24:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and if you go to the zoo, you'll see those monkeys are not shy about.

• 1:24:50Speaker 01

  No, and at least we don't throw poop everywhere.

• 1:24:53Dax Shepard?

  That's one thing we don't have to feel guilty about.

• 1:24:57Speaker 01

  Okay, well, now I got that off my chest.

• 1:25:00Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. You know what I also think is curious now that we're talking about it?

• 1:25:03Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:04Dax Shepard?

  You went upstairs to get your stuff and then came back downstairs.

• 1:25:08Speaker 01

  I did.

• 1:25:08Dax Shepard?

  That's curious to me. Why not just once you're upstairs?

• 1:25:12Speaker 01

  Uh, that's not the environment I wanted.

• 1:25:15Dax Shepard?

  Okay, okay. Interesting.

• 1:25:18Speaker 01

  It wasn't like I was like, uh, uh, I gotta like, it wasn't like.

• 1:25:21Dax Shepard?

  No, I know, I know. I'm just thinking I I'm such an efficiency expert.

• 1:25:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:25:27Dax Shepard?

  I'd be like, I'm gonna have to now go back upstairs again to return this stuff. I'm just here.

• 1:25:32Speaker 01

  I know, but it wasn't about that. It was like.

• 1:25:35Dax Shepard?

  About the room.

• 1:25:36Speaker 01

  Yeah, I just, I. I I wanted an experience.

• 1:25:40Dax Shepard?

  Right.

• 1:25:40Speaker 01

  Not the experience I got.

• 1:25:45Speaker 01

  But yeah, we're really weird to hear.

• 1:25:49Dax Shepard?

  This like manipulated in your mind and all of a sudden you had to have it on.

• 1:25:56Speaker 01

  Oh, my God, how would I tell her? I would have to.

• 1:26:00Dax Shepard?

  Be fine with it. I think she would. She'd be fine with that.

• 1:26:03Speaker 01

  Yeah, but then like.

• 1:26:04Dax Shepard?

  That'd be flattering, I think.

• 1:26:08Speaker 01

  And then when I saw her, I'd be like.

• 1:26:11Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you'd be very. This is like when you have a dream about someone you don't want, like in your waking hours, you have no feelings about. But then you have a very romantic dream about them. And then when you see them, you're a little confused. Have you had that?

• 1:26:24Speaker 01

  No. Normally, the people in my dreams.

• 1:26:29Dax Shepard?

  Were preexisting.

• 1:26:30Speaker 01

  Yeah, are people I already like think are very hot.

• 1:26:33Dax Shepard?

  Right. No one snuck in.

• 1:26:35Speaker 01

  God, that's a good question.

• 1:26:37Dax Shepard?

  I bet a few sneak ins and then I'm trying to like, um, there's dissonance. Now I'm with this person. There's not a spark and it's so confusing.

• 1:26:44Speaker 01

  They were just standing in for something else.

• 1:26:47Dax Shepard?

  They represented something, I think.

• 1:26:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:26:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I think that's the case.

• 1:26:51Speaker 01

  And then do you ever like kiss them on the cheek to see?

• 1:26:59Dax Shepard?

  Someone I've been friends with for 20 years. Oh, that's, uh, okay.

• 1:27:03Speaker 01

  Also, I sent you. I've been sending you some videos on Instagram.

• 1:27:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, this is a great conversation to have.

• 1:27:10Speaker 01

  Yes, I've been sending you some videos on Instagram that I love. So much.

• 1:27:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:27:18Speaker 01

  And you think they're AI.

• 1:27:20Dax Shepard?

  So this is a very good conversation. I bet I imagine a lot of people are in this situation. Which it, hold on, you have something right on your.

• 1:27:27Speaker 01

  Oh, my God.

• 1:27:29Dax Shepard?

  Only once in a while when you turn all the way this way, which we shoot this at your face anyways, but yeah.

• 1:27:34Speaker 01

  Is it gone?

• 1:27:35Dax Shepard?

  Yep.

• 1:27:36Speaker 01

  It was a burrito?

• 1:27:37Dax Shepard?

  No, it was like a white fleck.

• 1:27:39Speaker 01

  It was dandruff?

• 1:27:40Dax Shepard?

  No, I don't think it was dandruff. Um, okay, I think I'm pretty good at detecting AI. I could be wrong.

• 1:27:46Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:27:47Dax Shepard?

  That's what I think.

• 1:27:47Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:27:48Dax Shepard?

  And I'm regularly, I don't know whether I should tell the person who sent me the video that I think it's AI. It literally happened on our 10 minute break between recording.

• 1:27:59Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:28:00Dax Shepard?

  My friend Guy, who sends me the greatest videos, he sent a video of two moose fighting next to a car and they were damaging the car.

• 1:28:08Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:28:09Dax Shepard?

  The giveaway for me is the dialogue and the voices. They have a very distinct pattern.

• 1:28:16Speaker 01

  Huh.

• 1:28:17Dax Shepard?

  And if you listen closely, they don't talk like humans talk. They're like, oh God, why does he ruin the car? Oh, this sucks. Oh, hell, get out of here. Like, it's too, the thoughts come too fast.

• 1:28:26Speaker 01

  Hmm.

• 1:28:27Dax Shepard?

  That's the giveaway to me is the audio generally, because I, you, you can hardly tell now the visuals. They're so fucking good.

• 1:28:35Speaker 01

  Yeah, I wonder.

• 1:28:37Dax Shepard?

  It is the reactions of the bystanders that I don't think AI does very well.

• 1:28:42Speaker 01

  Well, that's interesting though, because the, the, the types of videos that I love and I'm sending are, they're very reactive, but that's the point of them.

• 1:28:51Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, so the ones you've been sending, uh, what started was these murals on the ground that people, and we've seen them. They're, they're very deceptive.

• 1:28:59Speaker 01

  They're 3D.

• 1:28:59Dax Shepard?

  They're 3D murals and it looks like the floor has dropped out from these people. There's a ladder. And these people walk by on their phone and you can even hear like, hey, hey, like, there's this weird audio stuff going on even before the people fall.

• 1:29:11Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:12Dax Shepard?

  And then they fall. And then I also question whether or not, because it only looks that way when you're standing at our vantage point. When you're on top of it, it doesn't look that way. We stood on top of that thing at Disneyland to take the picture, where it looks like we're getting sucked down into a whirlpool. But as you know, when we're standing on it, it doesn't look like that at all. It only looks that way from the vantage point of the camera. So I also don't believe anyone on top of it, it would look like the thing we're seeing. I don't think that's the physics of it.

• 1:29:42Dax Shepard?

  So I don't even think it would happen, A.

• 1:29:44Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:29:44Dax Shepard?

  And then B, just really listen to the bystanders, the way they're reacting and stuff. Okay. But before you even play it, what do you think the ethics for me are? Just let people have, enjoy their thing, or do you think I should point it out? I'm on the fence a lot of times. Like, I let three years go before I said anything, if you recall. I was like, she's enjoying this a lot.

• 1:30:05Speaker 01

  We're not sure. And so, and it's like, oh, you just sit in your house thinking like, oh, she doesn't get it? Like, I don't want you to have, not you, anyone, feeling like that.

• 1:30:18Dax Shepard?

  Well, I don't think anyone's, I don't go like, oh, they're so stupid. I just worry, I guess I want people to know what.

• 1:30:25Speaker 01

  Okay, I found it. I found one, okay?

• 1:30:27Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great.

• 1:30:32Speaker 01

  Well, they're falling.

• 1:30:43Dax Shepard?

  That part, that, the way he just said that.

• 1:30:45Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:30:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:30:50Dax Shepard?

  That laugh, that's not a real laugh.

• 1:30:56Dax Shepard?

  What are you saying? You kidding me? Hey, are you out of your mind? You can't just put a giant big hole in the middle of the sidewalk. See, it's too quick, he has his thoughts way too together, and he's just rapid fire, like, they, I knows. There'd be a lot longer period of confusion, and he, there'd be a what the fuck? Like, he's like, what the fuck, why'd you put this hole here, blah blah. It's too, it's too fast.

• 1:31:16Speaker 01

  I don't know if you're, I mean, maybe, maybe. I just feel like if, if you're reacting in panic, things do come out fast.

• 1:31:24Dax Shepard?

  I think that's too fast, for me.

• 1:31:26Speaker 01

  Okay, okay. I mean, they also might have sped.

• 1:31:28Dax Shepard?

  Also, like, you're embarrassed. Most people are like 99% embarrassed. But they go straight to like outrage and anger, and I think that's a little.

• 1:31:36Speaker 01

  Two of them, so I actually, that was part of why I thought it was real.

• 1:31:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:31:40Speaker 01

  Cause some people were mad, but others were like, you could see are embarrassed, or some are laughing.

• 1:31:46Dax Shepard?

  The visuals are outstanding. I don't think you could detect it from the visuals. Other than I don't think it, when. You're on top of it, you would see anything.

• 1:31:54Speaker 01

  That I don't know. That, yeah.

• 1:31:57Dax Shepard?

  But you stood on that thing and it didn't look like we were going into a hole.

• 1:32:00Speaker 01

  I just don't remember.

• 1:32:01Dax Shepard?

  You don't remember.

• 1:32:02Speaker 01

  Also, I was, I knew what we were doing. Like, I think part of it is they're catching these people off guard because they're not.

• 1:32:08Dax Shepard?

  Just the illusion of it, though, is they're making the front really obscured and wide. But when you're on top of it, you don't get the illusion.

• 1:32:17Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:32:17Dax Shepard?

  You can't get the illusion. It has to be viewed from a way.

• 1:32:21Speaker 01

  Now, do you think this baby holding the knife is AI?

• 1:32:24Dax Shepard?

  Yep, I think those are AI too.

• 1:32:26Speaker 01

  But that's not, okay, that sounds like, it sounds like obviously a baby holding a knife is AI, but the.

• 1:32:31Dax Shepard?

  It's a prank.

• 1:32:32Speaker 01

  Yeah, the concept is it's a prank.

• 1:32:34Dax Shepard?

  Yes, and also, so many people know this prank. There's like 12 clips. This is like.

• 1:32:40Speaker 01

  Yeah, I mean, but that's like, they're trends. They're like TikTok trends where people are pranking their.

• 1:32:44Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 1:32:46Speaker 01

  Parents and stuff.

• 1:32:47Dax Shepard?

  And they all got the same fake knife.

• 1:33:13Speaker 06

  Oh, Jesus, what the hell?

• 1:33:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, that sounds so fake to me.

• 1:33:18Speaker 06

  What?

• 1:33:19Speaker 01

  What? You think so?

• 1:33:21Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah.

• 1:33:22Speaker 01

  That's really funny. I don't think that sounds fake.

• 1:33:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:26Speaker 01

  Okay, but my favorite ones are when the wives are tricking the husbands or the boyfriends. And a lot of them, they just act scared. Like, the woman acts scared to see what will happen with the man.

• 1:33:39Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:33:40Speaker 01

  And, and there's so many different reactions. It'd be one thing if there was, if they were all the same. Okay, people should weigh in.

• 1:33:49Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:33:49Speaker 01

  I'm sure they know what I'm talk, I'm sure they know what videos.

• 1:33:52Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I'm sure people are getting sent videos all the time.

• 1:33:54Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:33:55Dax Shepard?

  And I've been thinking so much about it because it's like, I still enjoy watching them. And also, they're not as good as if it really happened.

• 1:34:02Speaker 01

  Well, of course.

• 1:34:03Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's just such a weird space in your head. You're like, yeah, I guess they still want to see these. But I do prefer when it's obvious, just because they get the physics so right. I'm just blown away with how good the AI is at. And then now, which is a moment like I watched a alligator and a Komodo dragon fighting. And that one looks so real.

• 1:34:24Speaker 01

  Really?

• 1:34:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh my God, you could not, it was like moving all exactly the same. And, um, but I'm like, yeah, th- those two animals don't interact. A, and then I watched one the other day and, um, I was really sad because at first I was like, it's a, it's a badger and a, and a bear, a pretty good sized bear.

• 1:34:41Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:34:42Dax Shepard?

  And they're getting at it. And then a second bear arrives and actually bites the badger, but the badger bites its tongue from inside of its mouth and the bear freaks out.

• 1:34:50Speaker 01

  Okay, okay.

• 1:34:51Dax Shepard?

  It's so real looking. At the end of it, I'm like, I don't know if that happened or not. That is something a badger could do and would do. They're so tenacious. They just keep biting you. They don't care if they're getting attacked. I've seen on National Geographic them fight back to leopards and stuff. So I'm like, it could definitely happen, but I don't know. Someone caught this on video?

• 1:35:08Speaker 01

  Well, that part is a little, that's why.

• 1:35:10Dax Shepard?

  And they were standing this close to two bears fighting a badger. They would have ran. There's two big bears on the scene.

• 1:35:16Speaker 01

  I don't think it's real. These that I have could be filmed because the whole point is pranks. The whole point is to catch them so.

• 1:35:26Dax Shepard?

  And ours are, the ones that are getting sent to me are all like, you know, like you happen to be standing there and they're good at making it look chaotic. But you do the math and you're like, yeah, those two animals don't live in the same hemisphere.

• 1:35:37Speaker 01

  Right. Also, yours are so animal based and animal fight. I feel like that raccoon biting is because we talked about with Winna.

• 1:35:47Speaker 01

  We had a whole conversation with the winner about your riddle. And I think your phone, we said grab the tongue. We were talking about the tongue.

• 1:35:55Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:35:56Speaker 01

  I think it heard it and sent you that.

• 1:35:58Dax Shepard?

  Oh, well, it nailed it because I was quite interested. I had a new idea too. I hope these are real. But now I'm wondering if they're AI and maybe I talked about them. Aaron and I got obsessed with them. It was during Halloween. It was all these Ring camera. People have skeletons on their porch that are motion activated.

• 1:36:14Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:36:14Dax Shepard?

  And then they have some candy out.

• 1:36:15Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:16Dax Shepard?

  And like one is a moose. This moose like comes up in the yard and it's like sniffing around. It's going towards the can. A moose. It's like in Alaska.

• 1:36:25Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:36:25Dax Shepard?

  And then it gets up to the bowl of candy.

• 1:36:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:36:29Dax Shepard?

  And that skeleton wakes up, and the fucking moose loses it.

• 1:36:34Speaker 01

  Freaks out.

• 1:36:34Dax Shepard?

  Yes, you feel so bad for the moose. But it's happened to bear. There's a bunch of Ring cameras. And so it's totally plausible because these animals do come up and interface with your porch. There's plenty of those.

• 1:36:44Speaker 01

  What's funny though is when you're saying it.

• 1:36:47Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:36:48Speaker 01

  It's like, obviously it's AI. It's funny when, when, but then when you see.

• 1:36:52Dax Shepard?

  It's not your thing.

• 1:36:53Speaker 01

  Yeah. And when it.

• 1:36:54Dax Shepard?

  When you're not incentivized for it to be real.

• 1:36:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, and I'm not seeing it visually.

• 1:36:58Dax Shepard?

  This one was so real with the bear that I said to myself, oh, the move isn't stand tall, blah, I'm big.

• 1:37:05Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:37:05Dax Shepard?

  It's definitely not to run.

• 1:37:07Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:37:08Dax Shepard?

  My new move, I think, is I'm gonna sit dead still and let it get super close. And then when it's about a foot away, I'm gonna go. Huh huh huh huh. Because I think any animal would freak.

• 1:37:17Speaker 01

  This is a horrible.

• 1:37:18Dax Shepard?

  No, I think it would work. They'd pee themselves and fall backwards and run.

• 1:37:22Speaker 01

  Use an AI video as instruction. See, this is why it's scary.

• 1:37:27Dax Shepard?

  You could be making life choices based on what the AI modeled out. I think the AI is probably right, though. Because nothing could be scarier than you're inching closer to something. It's completely seems unanimated and not anything. And then in a second, it's a pop out.

• 1:37:41Speaker 01

  No, it then invites.

• 1:37:43Dax Shepard?

  Animals have a pop out, you know.

• 1:37:45Speaker 01

  Their reflex is just to eat it immediately.

• 1:37:48Dax Shepard?

  I think they back up and freak out.

• 1:37:50Speaker 01

  Okay, um.

• 1:37:50Dax Shepard?

  Oh, TBD. I'll let you know if I run into a grizzly and I, but I do think that's my new preferred technique.

• 1:37:57Speaker 01

  God, okay.

• 1:37:58Dax Shepard?

  All right.

• 1:37:59Speaker 01

  Well, anyway, I guess people should weigh in on if they think any of these things are real or AI. But now I'm starting to think they are AI.

• 1:38:06Dax Shepard?

  People think you should just let people have their fun or if you should tell them.

• 1:38:09Speaker 01

  I think it's, you're allowed to tell people you think it's AI.

• 1:38:13Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:38:14Speaker 01

  I mean, it does. Like it, I was like.

• 1:38:16Dax Shepard?

  It's it's it's a Debbie Downer.

• 1:38:18Speaker 01

  It is.

• 1:38:19Dax Shepard?

  It's a yuck my yum.

• 1:38:20Speaker 01

  I'm not someone generally who thinks it's okay to like.

• 1:38:26Dax Shepard?

  Be fooled.

• 1:38:27Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:28Dax Shepard?

  Live a lie.

• 1:38:29Speaker 01

  Lie or like let people believe something that's not true, even if it like makes them happy, except.

• 1:38:35Dax Shepard?

  Religion.

• 1:38:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:38:38Dax Shepard?

  I think you have no business.

• 1:38:39Speaker 01

  I don't.

• 1:38:40Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, me, I don't have any business trying to poke holes in Noah's Ark.

• 1:38:44Speaker 01

  I think religion is so much more complicated than that, like people who believe, not everyone who believes believes in all the details and what they're believing in is not.

• 1:38:52Dax Shepard?

  Spectrum.

• 1:38:53Speaker 01

  Exactly, not something I can, I can refute, I don't know.

• 1:38:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:38:58Speaker 01

  So, but.

• 1:38:59Dax Shepard?

  You know, the whole world is probably not populated by two people, just given the gene.

• 1:39:02Speaker 01

  I'm saying, I'm saying that that a lot of those stories in the Bible, depending on what you believe, but I do think a lot of people believe them as allegory, like.

• 1:39:11Dax Shepard?

  Hmm.

• 1:39:11Speaker 01

  And then I'm not to tell them, um.

• 1:39:15Dax Shepard?

  Hey, I went through the book.

• 1:39:16Speaker 01

  Believe, because they're like, I know, but I believe in blah, blah, blah, blah, exactly, and great. I also don't want anyone to tell me how to believe.

• 1:39:26Dax Shepard?

  You're right.

• 1:39:26Speaker 01

  So I'm not going to tell them, but when it comes to being tricked visually, I think we need to be told because I think we need to be more aware, like there are tricks. There are tricks out there.

• 1:39:38Dax Shepard?

  Well, this is what Adam was talking about, you have to consider who sent this, who created this, who has the incentive for what?

• 1:39:44Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:39:45Dax Shepard?

  Let's just say, I go to this guy's page and lo and behold, this guy has witnessed many animals.

• 1:39:52Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:39:53Dax Shepard?

  Well, okay, this is an account that's trying to get views and likes by creating this thing. If the guy has a completely normal life and he has this one video of an animal acting crazy, that's pretty reputable and he's been on here forever.

• 1:40:06Speaker 01

  Yeah, but I bet that page where it came from is like a bunch of those types of videos, but they're not saying like it's me.

• 1:40:13Dax Shepard?

  Right, but I'm saying if you can track it back, which is what he's saying, he wants to be easy to do, to find the source of it. And you go to the source of it and they have many videos. Then it's quite obvious at that point, either this is the luckiest person in the world.

• 1:40:29Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:40:30Dax Shepard?

  Or they've created these with AI.

• 1:40:31Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:40:32Dax Shepard?

  And I think you should be able to easily follow that path.

• 1:40:35Speaker 01

  I agree, back to what I was saying about feeling like that is. Generally how I feel like truth is the most important thing. But the end of Beth's dead. I had a different takeaway and which we talked a lot about on that show and on the little extra episodes we did like. I it really did make me question, does the truth matter if there's peace?

• 1:41:01Dax Shepard?

  Right? I think before you're evaluating anything in life, you have to first establish what is the goal?

• 1:41:07Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:41:08Dax Shepard?

  Is the goal full knowledge of what happened on an an an atomic or atomic level? Or is the goal peace? Is it contentment? Is it? Understanding and love? Is it connection? And I think the only imperative is that you are pursuing your goal in a way that you can meet it. I don't think it's, especially as I get older. I know it's like a big pop culture thing to go like, well, they live in a different reality. And it's like, yeah, and you live in a different reality. It's not that other people live in a different reality and you're in reality. That's not the case. You're in a different reality than everyone else. And you're certain yours is the most objective.

• 1:41:54Dax Shepard?

  And it's not. And you have to have a lot of humility, I think. And I think the time where it's like, okay for you to point out is like, well, is this lie going to impact me negatively? Then I want to advocate for myself and say, no. This is X, Y, and Z because you don't, you want to protect yourself. But if it has zero, like, that's where I'm at with this. Like, it has zero impact on me. Um, whether someone believes this AI video or not.

• 1:42:22Speaker 01

  Well, but it's just a slippery slope if everyone's believing things that aren't true. Like, it is slippery for the whole world.

• 1:42:33Dax Shepard?

  It is.

• 1:42:34Speaker 01

  But I also agree, and this does suck. Like, I don't want to see those anymore if they're made up. Like, they don't make it. That doesn't make me laugh as an AI video. Interesting if that is the way humans are behaving.

• 1:42:49Dax Shepard?

  I wonder how the news, like, what filter are they using? How are they determining at this point when they get sent video? What is they are now? I'd be very curious. I should ask my father in law.

• 1:43:00Speaker 01

  They must have to do an interview with the person. They must have to see the person.

• 1:43:05Dax Shepard?

  That created the video.

• 1:43:07Speaker 01

  And it better be the same person that's in the video.

• 1:43:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, this is what Adam was talking about.

• 1:43:12Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:43:12Dax Shepard?

  It's like, we gotta be able to check the reputation of the source.

• 1:43:18Speaker 01

  Exactly. For people who don't know what we're talking about, I guess we'll spoil that next week is, um, Adam Mosseri.

• 1:43:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, CEO of.

• 1:43:27Speaker 01

  Instagram.

• 1:43:28Dax Shepard?

  And returning guest.

• 1:43:29Speaker 01

  Yeah, returning guest is interesting. Um, speaking of, let's go ahead and do some facts.

• 1:43:33Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:43:36Speaker 04

  Stay tuned for more Armchair Expert, if you dare.

• 1:43:43Dax Shepard?

  We get support from Skims. So Monica just informed me that she's a girl's girl, and I nodded like I knew exactly what that meant.

• 1:43:51Speaker 01

  Yeah, but the girls who get it, they get it.

• 1:43:54Dax Shepard?

  Okay, but for those of us who are clearly not girls, walk me through it.

• 1:43:58Speaker 01

  Well, you know how much I love my Skims fleece joggers because the plush fleece is so soft. It's cozy. It's really comfortable without feeling too heavy. Well, I went to friend them, and she would not stop talking about how comfy they were. She almost didn't give them back to me, which was upsetting, but I'm a girl's girl, so I let her have it.

• 1:44:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, great, great, great.

• 1:44:16Speaker 01

  So the sleep sets are awesome because they are very soft and comfortable, but they're cute. If I'm in my sleep set, I feel fine about going down the street to pick up my food. I'm still looking cute, but I'm comfy and I'm cozy.

• 1:44:29Dax Shepard?

  Roger.

• 1:44:30Speaker 01

  A really fun thing to do is if you're going on vacation with your girlfriends, to get matching Skims pajamas. I've done this with Callie, and it is so fun. First of all, the pics are so cute, but also it's just fun and friendship.

• 1:44:43Dax Shepard?

  So a girl's girl is looking out for your friends with better loungewear. I get it. Am I one of your girls now?

• 1:44:48Speaker 01

  You are. You and the other girlies can shop my favorite loungewear and pajamas at skims.com. After you place your order, be sure to let them know we sent you. Select Podcast in the survey and be sure to select our show in the drop down menu that follows.

• 1:45:08Speaker 01

  Microbiome, Colleen Cutcliffe.

• 1:45:12Dax Shepard?

  We've been Easter egg-ing the shit out of this episode because we have already consumed these probiotics.

• 1:45:17Speaker 01

  Yeah, and you just ate bread.

• 1:45:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I have a few times now, and I haven't had any issues. I'm scared to be too optimistic, but, but yeah. And I have no, it's not my plan to go back to eating it.

• 1:45:32Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:45:33Dax Shepard?

  But I do love the idea that occasionally I can without issue.

• 1:45:36Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:45:36Dax Shepard?

  And again, I'm not endorsing anything. I'm just giving my own personal experience. I don't want anyone to buy or not buy anything. Whatever. I'm not a medical professional. I also got my mom on it. You know, I sent her them, and I just talked to her weirdly before I walked in. And she's like on day eight, and I'm like, have you noticed anything? And she's like, in the moment, she's like, "Yeah, actually, yeah, my hip, or I have really bad arthritis, has not been hurting."

• 1:46:02Speaker 01

  Interesting.

• 1:46:03Dax Shepard?

  She's like, "It still hurts a little bit, but it went from like 80 to 15."

• 1:46:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:46:08Dax Shepard?

  And I was like, "Girl, and that's only day eight. That's supposed to take a while to completely re-colonize." Anyways, I am like very cautiously optimistic.

• 1:46:17Speaker 01

  Me too. Yeah, and then I have my dad on the GLP-1-1.

• 1:46:22Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:46:22Speaker 01

  And they sent it to us, and we were gonna try it. We haven't tried it yet.

• 1:46:26Dax Shepard?

  Why not?

• 1:46:27Speaker 01

  Because it's refrigerated, and it's in my fridge, and I always have to bring stuff over.

• 1:46:34Dax Shepard?

  Ugh.

• 1:46:35Speaker 01

  It's hard for me to remember.

• 1:46:36Dax Shepard?

  I know. Do you try Post-its ever?

• 1:46:38Speaker 01

  You could come get it.

• 1:46:40Dax Shepard?

  I could. I will.

• 1:46:41Speaker 01

  You can get it anytime.

• 1:46:42Dax Shepard?

  All right, I will.

• 1:46:43Speaker 01

  And soon it'll be easy.

• 1:46:44Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I will only have to walk across the street quite soon.

• 1:46:47Speaker 01

  That's right. So I didn't take my shot yesterday.

• 1:46:50Dax Shepard?

  Uh-huh.

• 1:46:51Speaker 01

  And I think I'm gonna try this instead.

• 1:46:53Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:46:54Speaker 01

  Give it a whirl.

• 1:46:54Dax Shepard?

  I want to try it. I wish you could have seen my daddy just once. It was impressive.

• 1:47:00Speaker 01

  Probably like Jess.

• 1:47:01Dax Shepard?

  I, yeah, yeah, but he, the way, I know I've told you, but he would make a frozen pizza. But that was simply the base of what the meal was gonna be. There would be chicken wings on it and salsa. I know. It was insane, the amount of meals on top of this pizza.

• 1:47:17Speaker 01

  I know, there's, that's a type of person, that's Jess. He would, in the air fryer, you'd be shook, like, it's like, pancetta noodles, mustard, uh, turkey slices, like, it's nut, it's nuts.

• 1:47:34Dax Shepard?

  The creativity's off the charts, in, combining ingredients that no one would think of. Other than like stoners.

• 1:47:41Speaker 01

  No, it's not creativity, that's like saying this is an art piece when you're just throwing shit.

• 1:47:46Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, I guess a, a critical assessment would be like, they can't even decide which, like, they, they're, like, twenty things sound good to them.

• 1:47:53Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:47:54Dax Shepard?

  And they're like, great, I'll have all twenty in one.

• 1:47:56Speaker 01

  They don't taste, I, they, I, they must not have taste buds, like, cause that must taste so disgusting. Anywho.

• 1:48:04Dax Shepard?

  No, no, maybe they're like supertasters, where it's like, no, they can actually enjoy each individual taste. Like, maybe they ratchet through, like, oh yeah, there's the salsa, there's the chicken wings, there's the chicken chow mein, there's the pepperoni from the pizza. But yeah, I would look at this thing and be like, how does that taste like anything?

• 1:48:20Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:48:21Dax Shepard?

  I, to me, it more was like, when you put too many colors together, you get black.

• 1:48:24Speaker 01

  Yeah, exactly.

• 1:48:25Dax Shepard?

  You're just gonna get black at a certain point.

• 1:48:27Speaker 01

  Yeah, but, but, a good, someone who has a good palate.

• 1:48:32Dax Shepard?

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:48:33Speaker 01

  Can taste the depth of flavor, like, you are supposed to layer flavors. Flavors that go together, salt, fat, acid.

• 1:48:41Dax Shepard?

  Flavor profiles.

• 1:48:42Speaker 01

  Exactly, but not pancetta noodles, lettuce.

• 1:48:46Dax Shepard?

  Two can soup.

• 1:48:47Speaker 01

  Yeah, I, no, no.

• 1:48:49Dax Shepard?

  Four pound roast, two can cheese soup.

• 1:48:52Speaker 01

  Anyway. So this was, yeah, this was good for us and we're giving it a whirl.

• 1:48:57Dax Shepard?

  And the product aside, I've been having so much fun talking to everybody about the amount of things that the gut is in charge of.

• 1:49:06Speaker 01

  I know.

• 1:49:07Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:08Speaker 01

  So much going on in here.

• 1:49:10Dax Shepard?

  There's a lot going on in there, what happened?

• 1:49:12Speaker 01

  Um, okay.

• 1:49:14Dax Shepard?

  Especially mine, because we just ate some Philly cheesesteak.

• 1:49:16Speaker 01

  Hmm, I only ate half and you only ate half too, but I want my other half.

• 1:49:20Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I might put um, a burrito on top of it and some, some kung pao chicken and some uh, some Doritos and some uh.

• 1:49:28Speaker 01

  That's what he would do.

• 1:49:29Dax Shepard?

  And some matzo ball soup.

• 1:49:30Speaker 01

  And, and like sprinkle cheese on top of the whole thing.

• 1:49:32Dax Shepard?

  Yes, smother the whole thing with cheese. There was, that's one of the greatest uh, SNL fake commercials of all time. You remember that? The pizza one? Ultimately, it comes in a bag and you put like a gallon of sauce all over it.

• 1:49:43Speaker 01

  Yeah. It's a Taco Bell, isn't it like a Taco Bell smooth?

• 1:49:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:49:49Speaker 01

  I think it is.

• 1:49:49Dax Shepard?

  Or pizza, one of the two.

• 1:49:51Speaker 02

  Taco Town?

• 1:49:52Dax Shepard?

  Taco Town.

• 1:49:54Speaker 01

  Yes. Um, okay, you said that there's a.

• 1:49:57Dax Shepard?

  Taco Town sounds perverse.

• 1:49:58Speaker 01

  Taco Town?

• 1:49:59Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, like, let's go to Taco Town. There's an innuendo there.

• 1:50:02Speaker 01

  It's a vagina. Is Taco Bell vagina innuendo?

• 1:50:06Dax Shepard?

  Kristen's.

• 1:50:07Speaker 01

  Why? Oh, oh.

• 1:50:11Speaker 01

  God, ew.

• 1:50:16Speaker 01

  Oh my God, is that like a joke you guys had?

• 1:50:18Dax Shepard?

  No, it just came up, that just hit me.

• 1:50:20Speaker 01

  Okay, Palos Verdes. You said that there's a community there that they've been studying.

• 1:50:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 1:50:26Speaker 01

  Um, I can't find that. And are, so are you sure it's Palos Verdes? Could it be another?

• 1:50:32Dax Shepard?

  The fact that you're saying it the way you say it is interesting. I say Palos Verdes.

• 1:50:37Speaker 01

  You say, say it again?

• 1:50:38Dax Shepard?

  Palos.

• 1:50:39Speaker 01

  Palos?

• 1:50:40Dax Shepard?

  And you're saying Palo.

• 1:50:41Speaker 01

  You're saying Palos.

• 1:50:42Dax Shepard?

  How do you say it, Rob?

• 1:50:44Speaker 02

  I don't say it.

• 1:50:45Dax Shepard?

  Palos Verdes.

• 1:50:46Speaker 01

  Try saying it.

• 1:50:46Speaker 02

  Palos.

• 1:50:47Speaker 01

  Palos, that's what I said, right? Palos Verdes.

• 1:50:51Speaker 02

  Palos Verdes, yeah. That's how I would say it.

• 1:50:54Speaker 01

  I think you're saying. Saying it like that, just with your accent.

• 1:50:57Dax Shepard?

  Hey, Kama, I'm in the middle of a fact check and I'm trying to remember the name of that community your parents lived in at Palos Verdes.

• 1:51:04Speaker 01

  TBD on that, because I'm not getting any info from the internet.

• 1:51:07Dax Shepard?

  Hold on, I'm just gonna ask chat. I'm gonna be specific. I saw a 60 Minutes segment about a retirement community in Palos Verdes where they study aging, period. Do you know which community that was? Laguna Woods.

• 1:51:22Speaker 01

  Laguna Woods, okay.

• 1:51:24Dax Shepard?

  The story centered on long-running research project known as the 90-plus study, yeah, out of University of California Irvine, which follows residents from that community who have lived into their 90s and beyond to learn what factors contribute to longevity. Originally, the residents had filled out lifestyle questionnaires decades earlier when the, oh, when the community was known as Leisure World. Yes, that's what it was originally called, is Leisure World.

• 1:51:50Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 1:51:51Dax Shepard?

  That's why you weren't able to find it probably currently. A large, active senior retirement community. So the place you saw at Laguna Woods Retirement Community, formerly Leisure Wood in Southern California. Let's see if Leisure Wood was in Palos Verdes.

• 1:52:05Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's the big question.

• 1:52:07Dax Shepard?

  Oh, his was Rolling Hills Estates.

• 1:52:11Speaker 01

  Who's his?

• 1:52:12Dax Shepard?

  My friend Jeff.

• 1:52:13Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 1:52:13Dax Shepard?

  His parents live there.

• 1:52:15Speaker 01

  Leisure World.

• 1:52:17Speaker 02

  Rolling Hills is a city. So it might just be.

• 1:52:20Dax Shepard?

  Leisure World.

• 1:52:22Speaker 01

  Is in Seal Beach, California.

• 1:52:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 1:52:25Speaker 01

  Not Palos Verdes.

• 1:52:27Dax Shepard?

  Okay. Well, maybe I've conflated where Jeff's folks lived.

• 1:52:31Speaker 01

  Seal Beach, Orange County. Okay. So that exists, but not, but not in Palos Verdes, or in Palos Verdes. Rancho Palos Verdes. Palos Verdes.

• 1:52:45Dax Shepard?

  Uh, they are 28 miles apart.

• 1:52:47Speaker 01

  So I'm correct.

• 1:52:48Dax Shepard?

  No, you're correct.

• 1:52:49Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:52:49Dax Shepard?

  You're correct.

• 1:52:50Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:52:50Dax Shepard?

  Monica, you're right.

• 1:52:51Speaker 01

  Thank you.

• 1:52:52Dax Shepard?

  Also, they're 28 miles apart.

• 1:52:53Speaker 01

  That's long. In my opinion.

• 1:52:56Dax Shepard?

  It is. If you're like picking regions of the country.

• 1:53:00Speaker 01

  Palos Verdes is. Specific.

• 1:53:02Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, it's twenty eight miles up the ocean front from.

• 1:53:06Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:53:07Dax Shepard?

  From Seal Beach.

• 1:53:07Speaker 01

  Yep. Different places.

• 1:53:10Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 1:53:10Speaker 01

  It just makes.

• 1:53:11Dax Shepard?

  I'm saying it was a mistake and also is very, very close.

• 1:53:14Speaker 01

  It makes total sense that when I was Googling it, that's not coming up because it's not there.

• 1:53:18Dax Shepard?

  That's true. That's a hundred percent true.

• 1:53:21Speaker 01

  Okay, now, a huge fact that I have to say is at the beginning of this episode, my hair is messed up.

• 1:53:30Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:31Speaker 01

  And it's, it's like, there's hairs on my forehead, in the middle of my forehead.

• 1:53:36Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:37Speaker 01

  And.

• 1:53:38Dax Shepard?

  That was just an accident. Did you fix it mid-interview?

• 1:53:40Speaker 01

  I did, thank God.

• 1:53:42Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:53:42Speaker 01

  Without Rob's help of saying cucumber, or whatever you were supposed to say.

• 1:53:47Dax Shepard?

  So, would your preference be people listen on audio for the, to the first third of the episode and then watch?

• 1:53:54Speaker 01

  Yes.

• 1:53:54Dax Shepard?

  The remaining two thirds.

• 1:53:56Speaker 01

  I want you to skip the beginning, where my hair is clearly messed up. Um, okay, first generation.

• 1:54:03Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 1:54:03Speaker 01

  Generally refers to a person born in the US to immigrant parents, meaning their parents were born in another country. While the US Census Bureau defines the first generation as foreign-born individuals themselves, this term can be confusing because some people, like children of immigrants, second generation by census, often identify as first generation because they are the first in their family to grow up with dual cultural experiences, bridging their parents' heritage and American culture. So I'm still one and a half.

• 1:54:37Dax Shepard?

  Okay, I, uh, I feel like it's one to one. Uh, I think I lost the first one and I think.

• 1:54:44Speaker 01

  Um, this one is more muddy. This is like, like, children of immigrant, children of immigrants, second generation by census. That's me.

• 1:54:54Dax Shepard?

  I understand that sentence to mean that the US Census.

• 1:54:59Speaker 01

  Uh huh.

• 1:55:00Dax Shepard?

  Is counting it, defining it one way, but that no one defines it that way, other than the Census.

• 1:55:06Speaker 01

  If the Census is defining it that way, I define it that way. We know that motto.

• 1:55:12Dax Shepard?

  Okay, because you're in lockstep with all.

• 1:55:14Speaker 01

  I do it.

• 1:55:14Dax Shepard?

  Okay, because you're in lockstep with the, all the government's declarations.

• 1:55:19Speaker 01

  Just the Census.

• 1:55:20Dax Shepard?

  Okay, just this one thing.

• 1:55:22Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:55:23Dax Shepard?

  But I mean, what does logic tell you? How could someone who moves here at 50 years old be the first generation?

• 1:55:31Speaker 01

  Yeah, first gen to step foot in this country.

• 1:55:34Dax Shepard?

  But their whole generation was spent in another place.

• 1:55:38Speaker 01

  Well, also, that's not my situation. My mom's life was spent in America.

• 1:55:44Dax Shepard?

  I understand that.

• 1:55:45Speaker 01

  That's why.

• 1:55:45Dax Shepard?

  I understand that, but she moved here from another country. She wasn't born here.

• 1:55:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, so I'm saying when you step foot, right? And you're saying, no, it can't be that because they grew up.

• 1:55:55Dax Shepard?

  Well, what I'm saying is the term generation refers to a segment of time from which people were born. So Gen X, you're born between, you know, whatever it is, 68 and 80.

• 1:56:07Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:56:08Dax Shepard?

  That's a generation. Well, if that, if you weren't here for that generation, the definition of the generation is you were born between this time and this time. But during this time and that time, you were in another country. How on earth could you call that being a part of that generation?

• 1:56:23Speaker 01

  But if you're growing up in that generation in, in America.

• 1:56:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I mean, you, you're, you're, you're focusing the whole thing on your mother's singular experience, right?

• 1:56:37Speaker 01

  Yeah, because that's what we were talking about.

• 1:56:38Dax Shepard?

  So she's the most extreme in this example, I would say. So sure, even if we look at her, I would love to look at what generation she's a part of, which would probably be the baby boom generation.

• 1:56:49Speaker 01

  Yeah, she is, yeah.

• 1:56:49Dax Shepard?

  And I guarantee that the baby boom generation ended within a couple of years after she was born. So what I'm saying is she was in India when the end of that quote generation we're looking at existed as a defined generation. So she couldn't have been an American, part of that, that American generation when it ended before she even got here. Now there's another generation that has followed it. But when you're born here, you are intrinsically in that generation.

• 1:57:17Speaker 01

  Why, though?

• 1:57:19Dax Shepard?

  Because you didn't miss the window. Like, your mother could have come here, let's say, you, you were born, you're what, you're millennial?

• 1:57:26Speaker 01

  Mm-hmm.

• 1:57:27Dax Shepard?

  And you didn't come here until we were now in the generation of Gen Z.

• 1:57:32Speaker 01

  But was I five, six? Years old?

• 1:57:36Dax Shepard?

  When Gen Z started?

• 1:57:37Speaker 01

  Right.

• 1:57:38Dax Shepard?

  I don't know. That's why it's so murky that obviously what's much more clean and would make mu- would apply to everybody. Like, for us to have a definition that would include your mother but exclude your father, it ca- we couldn't even come up with that definition.

• 1:57:52Speaker 01

  Well, that's why I said one and a half.

• 1:57:54Dax Shepard?

  If we say, "When you're born here, that is officially the first generation," there's really no way that that can't be defined or measured.

• 1:58:02Speaker 01

  Or it's sa- or according to the census, the first generation, it says you were born in China and moved to the US.

• 1:58:10Dax Shepard?

  Yeah. I have no beef with- I am no argument against what the census defined it as. I asked you, what logically makes sense to you?

• 1:58:18Speaker 01

  To me, that makes sense. Like, to me, it makes sense. Like, I'm not thinking of it at all in the way you're thinking of it as like millennial, like, the- the way we break down generations here as groups. To me, it's like, this is almost a different definition. It's like, the first generation of- of kids, or second generation, or people, the first generation of people to hit this land, second generation-

• 1:58:46Dax Shepard?

  Maybe we should start with defining the word "degeneration." All of the people born and living at about the same time, regarded collectively. So that's kind of my argument, right? It's like, they weren't here at that time with this collective group of people considered that generation.

• 1:59:03Speaker 01

  Right, but if you look up immigrant generations, that's like a different, that's its own Wikipedia. In sociology, people who permanently resettled to a new country are considered immigrants, regardless of the legal status of their citizenship or residency. The census uses the term "generational status." That's- that's what it- it's not talking about age and stuff. It's- it's its own thing within immigration.

• 1:59:26Dax Shepard?

  I want to make another point, but I think we're getting heated over something that doesn't matter. I- I'm saying, well, my question was just like, do we agree on the definition in the dictionary of "generation"? And you're on a Wikipedia page-

• 1:59:37Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 1:59:38Dax Shepard?

  -versus the dictionary of what the word "generation" is.

• 1:59:40Speaker 01

  Can't you see that this im- this- this iteration of immigrant genera- generation- Is different from that generate that definition of generations, which is about age and growing up in a cohort or a group. This is how, when you move here from another country, they define you.

• 1:59:57Dax Shepard?

  Yes, that's the census. I've already, I've already submitted, surrendered, conceded to how the Census Bureau is doing it.

• 2:00:07Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:00:07Dax Shepard?

  So I don't, so that's.

• 2:00:08Speaker 01

  But it's about, my point is that immigration status is different than, than this. Like, it's what you're.

• 2:00:16Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, you're right. The census has defined it that way. Yep.

• 2:00:22Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:00:22Dax Shepard?

  No argument for me. That is what the census defined it by. I'm talking about everyone not in the census in the real world that talks about the generation. My generation blank, generation, this dictionary generation. So, we all have a very clear understanding of what our generation is. And so, the only one we know is first, from soup to nuts in that generation, is the first one that was born here. Cause they're in this collective. For me, I don't have any, I don't know why the census does it the way they do it, but I'm just saying why it said generally people think of first generation, except for the census.

• 2:01:02Dax Shepard?

  And why I think it is kind of intuitively makes sense is that you're born into this actual American generation. You can't really, I'm arguing you can't really join midway through.

• 2:01:15Speaker 01

  But you're, but that's like, what if it went the reverse? What if it was, if it was Americans going to India? That's first generation, second generation too. And that's not going by our, like, we don't, Indians don't have that.

• 2:01:31Dax Shepard?

  I would not think if I moved to India tomorrow, that I'm first generation Indian, at all. But if I had a child with a 30-year-old woman when I got there, I would think that child was the first Indian generation. They'd be Indian, always had been, always will be.

• 2:01:50Speaker 01

  Yeah. Um, alright, well, okay, she went to Westminster, which is a private school in Atlanta. It is a very fancy school.

• 2:02:03Dax Shepard?

  Fancy pants.

• 2:02:04Speaker 01

  And I was impressed by that. Um, animals that eat poop.

• 2:02:09Dax Shepard?

  It said all.

• 2:02:11Speaker 01

  I know, it says many animals eat pu- poop. A behavior called coprovogy. Coprovogy.

• 2:02:21Dax Shepard?

  Coprovogy.

• 2:02:22Speaker 01

  To gain essential gut bacteria for digestion, like baby quolls, elephants, pandas, re-ingest lost nutrients, rabbits, rodents, get vitamins, guinea pigs, or due to instinct hunger, dogs, dung beetles, making it a common survival strategy for various species, from insects to mammals.

• 2:02:43Dax Shepard?

  I wonder how many calories are still in the poop.

• 2:02:46Speaker 01

  Right. Good question.

• 2:02:48Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:02:49Speaker 01

  I don't know. Birds do it. Um, salamanders do it. Hamsters. Lemurs, monkeys, chimpanzees, wolves.

• 2:03:00Dax Shepard?

  These are all very regal beasts.

• 2:03:02Speaker 01

  No, I didn't see any, I'm gonna, I'm gonna ask if tigers do.

• 2:03:06Dax Shepard?

  I bet not, cuz they're solitary.

• 2:03:07Speaker 01

  Oh, do tigers eat animal poop?

• 2:03:11Dax Shepard?

  Do they coprophem, right?

• 2:03:12Speaker 01

  Do not typically eat animal poop as part of their regular diet cuz they're so regal. They're strict carnivores that consume meat. Oh, it says tigresses may consume their cub's feces to remove scent and protect them from predators.

• 2:03:27Dax Shepard?

  Oh, good mom. That's a good mom.

• 2:03:30Speaker 01

  There are rare documented cases of tigers eating elephant dung, likely for nutrient absorption or due to specific gut needs.

• 2:03:37Dax Shepard?

  I guess they do.

• 2:03:38Speaker 01

  But that's like if people have, when people have pika, and they like eat paper.

• 2:03:41Dax Shepard?

  They eat hair.

• 2:03:42Speaker 01

  Yeah. That's, that's what that is.

• 2:03:45Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, I saw an episode of that show, and the gal was eating her, the ashes of her mother or her father.

• 2:03:50Speaker 01

  No.

• 2:03:52Dax Shepard?

  When she was like panicked, she was gonna run out of the ashes.

• 2:03:54Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 2:03:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, it was like, it was like one of these A and E like strange obsession type shows. There was a guy that was in love with his car and he would hump the hood of his car. He has, it was on TV and it was treated so.

• 2:04:08Speaker 01

  Seriously?

• 2:04:08Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes, like academically almost.

• 2:04:11Speaker 01

  Oh my god.

• 2:04:12Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, and he would like wash it and he'd get aroused as he was washing it. And he would start humping it.

• 2:04:17Speaker 01

  Ejaculate on it?

• 2:04:18Dax Shepard?

  Clearly, I mean.

• 2:04:19Speaker 01

  Clearly?

• 2:04:20Dax Shepard?

  Well, if you humped the person you love.

• 2:04:22Speaker 01

  Well, you might ejaculate on the ground.

• 2:04:24Dax Shepard?

  Oh, I think in his pants.

• 2:04:25Speaker 01

  Oh, god, god.

• 2:04:27Dax Shepard?

  Who knows what he's doing when the sun went down?

• 2:04:29Speaker 01

  Oh, when the cameras weren't on.

• 2:04:31Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

• 2:04:32Speaker 01

  God.

• 2:04:33Dax Shepard?

  I was like, why doesn't he fuck the muffler?

• 2:04:35Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:04:35Dax Shepard?

  Like, that's at least a rule.

• 2:04:36Speaker 01

  But he didn't need to.

• 2:04:38Dax Shepard?

  No, I think he was most attracted to like the hood and the bumper, yeah.

• 2:04:41Speaker 01

  The face. More to the face than the body, wow.

• 2:04:46Dax Shepard?

  He wasn't an ass man.

• 2:04:48Speaker 01

  Yeah, wow, okay, now were they called water weenies? To you, yes, they were called water weenies in your house.

• 2:04:55Dax Shepard?

  No, on the shelf at DNC Dime Storm in Michigan.

• 2:04:59Speaker 01

  Well, water snake is, is the like, you know, there's water snakes, there's water wigglies.

• 2:05:10Dax Shepard?

  I can't trust you anymore.

• 2:05:11Speaker 01

  I mean, I, if you type it, water weenie super, water weenie in Amazon is called a super squirt and it looks like this. Yeah, that's something, um.

• 2:05:24Dax Shepard?

  Water weenie.

• 2:05:25Speaker 01

  If you type in water weenie.

• 2:05:26Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh.

• 2:05:27Speaker 01

  It says water snakes or water weenies. If water weenies are towable boat tubes, there are water weenies and, and, um.

• 2:05:36Dax Shepard?

  Thank you. I'm not saying they didn't have different names, I'm saying I didn't make up the name water weenie. The kind I bought were called water weenies. We didn't like make up the name as long as.

• 2:05:45Speaker 01

  So you think it was the brand?

• 2:05:47Dax Shepard?

  Yes, yes.

• 2:05:48Speaker 01

  Original water weenie is the super squirt, so that's not it. Water snake wigglies, maybe they were called that in Michigan.

• 2:05:57Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:05:58Speaker 01

  That's a squirt gun, that's not the thing. That's the original water weenie on Instagram. They have an Instagram that I looked up. Feel free to get a squirt gun from original water weenie.

• 2:06:13Speaker 01

  And enjoy your time. God, remember water fights in the neighborhood? Did you guys do those? Have like squirt guns and water balloons and have water fights?

• 2:06:22Dax Shepard?

  That was a bit.

• 2:06:23Speaker 01

  Advanced?

• 2:06:24Dax Shepard?

  Too PG for my neighborhood.

• 2:06:26Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:06:26Dax Shepard?

  We had snowball fights, you know, you weren't hurt.

• 2:06:29Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:06:30Dax Shepard?

  Um, yeah squirt one is not, not super, yeah, it was a little, I think it was seen as a little baby, baby business.

• 2:06:38Speaker 01

  Oh my God. Even when you were like seven, you were a baby.

• 2:06:43Dax Shepard?

  My, my peer was 12.

• 2:06:46Speaker 01

  Right, okay.

• 2:06:47Dax Shepard?

  You know?

• 2:06:48Speaker 01

  Sure.

• 2:06:48Dax Shepard?

  I didn't get to like, I didn't do the Star Wars toys. Like I wasn't really allowed to do the things that were my age.

• 2:06:57Speaker 01

  Oh my God, speaking of.

• 2:06:59Dax Shepard?

  You got a Star Wars toy?

• 2:07:01Speaker 01

  I have an anniversary present.

• 2:07:04Dax Shepard?

  Oh my goodness.

• 2:07:05Speaker 01

  For you.

• 2:07:06Dax Shepard?

  Oh my goodness.

• 2:07:06Speaker 01

  Um, I didn't wrap it.

• 2:07:08Dax Shepard?

  Okay.

• 2:07:08Speaker 01

  Now.

• 2:07:10Dax Shepard?

  Oh.

• 2:07:11Speaker 01

  It's another Beanie Baby, worth a lot of money.

• 2:07:15Dax Shepard?

  He looks just like La Shit T. What's the difference between him and La Berti?

• 2:07:19Speaker 01

  Because that one's name is Valentino.

• 2:07:22Dax Shepard?

  Okay, because he has a heart?

• 2:07:23Speaker 01

  Yeah, he has a heart patch instead of an American flag.

• 2:07:27Dax Shepard?

  That's what differentiates him.

• 2:07:28Speaker 01

  Yes, his name is Valentino. He's not as, he's more white. He's not like all covered in shit.

• 2:07:35Dax Shepard?

  Well, right, but originally La Shit T wasn't covered.

• 2:07:39Speaker 01

  That's right.

• 2:07:40Dax Shepard?

  He was this white.

• 2:07:41Speaker 01

  He was originally, yeah.

• 2:07:43Dax Shepard?

  Oh wow, where'd you get this one?

• 2:07:45Speaker 01

  I got it from my parents' house. Um, it was in the basement and I, you know, the tag is, oh God, your dad's smelling it.

• 2:07:54Dax Shepard?

  Wow, it smells like in my grandparents' motel.

• 2:07:55Speaker 01

  It does?

• 2:07:56Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, because it's probably a little moist in your basement. Yeah. Bury your nose in it.

• 2:08:00Speaker 01

  I know, I know, because I have makeup on and I don't want to give, but see, this is how it happens.

• 2:08:04Dax Shepard?

  Uh huh, put it.

• 2:08:07Speaker 01

  I can't smell anything.

• 2:08:08Dax Shepard?

  Bury your nose, don't worry about the makeup. Put it in his ass that way, the stain is in his ass.

• 2:08:14Dax Shepard?

  Can't smell anything. It's probably because it's your home.

• 2:08:16Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:08:17Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, isn't it crazy? We can't smell our homes.

• 2:08:19Speaker 01

  That scares me. Um, so.

• 2:08:21Dax Shepard?

  Oh, yeah.

• 2:08:22Speaker 01

  Oh, no. Oh, no.

• 2:08:25Dax Shepard?

  I'm getting a big ol' hit of kiwi here.

• 2:08:26Speaker 01

  Oh, shit. Does it smell really bad?

• 2:08:29Dax Shepard?

  It smells, no. Um, my grandpa's bathroom at the motel, he used Aquanet.

• 2:08:36Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:08:37Dax Shepard?

  And some weird, I think a liquid deodorant. Like, I think he splashed it in his armpits or something.

• 2:08:42Speaker 01

  Okay.

• 2:08:42Dax Shepard?

  Whatever that cacophony of smells was, which I enjoyed. It smelled like my Pippi's bathroom.

• 2:08:48Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:08:49Dax Shepard?

  He also wore to like, he wore, put like a pomade in his hair. That was in the mix.

• 2:08:52Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:08:53Dax Shepard?

  You know.

• 2:08:54Speaker 01

  It's that much smell?

• 2:08:55Dax Shepard?

  Like somehow, all those smells together, this is his clothes. Oh, big time. And then the soap that they used at the Colonial Motor Inn, the branded soap.

• 2:09:06Dax Shepard?

  I would love my, my, my brother to take a whiff of this.

• 2:09:08Speaker 01

  Yeah, me too. Me too.

• 2:09:10Dax Shepard?

  Cause the other thing, my favorite smell in the world is occasionally I, my bathroom will smell like my grandparents' kitchen. Papa Bob and Grandma.

• 2:09:20Speaker 01

  Your, your bathroom does?

• 2:09:22Dax Shepard?

  Different grandparents, the ones that really raised me, Papa Bob and Grandma.

• 2:09:26Speaker 01

  Right.

• 2:09:26Dax Shepard?

  They brewed coffee all day long in a percolator.

• 2:09:31Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:31Dax Shepard?

  And it was humid because it was Michigan. And so my bathroom, sometimes like if someone takes a shower and I brewed coffee, something happened. I just need a cigarette burning because they also smoked, they chain smoked.

• 2:09:44Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:09:45Dax Shepard?

  I love that smell. I would give anything. And my uncle now lives in the house and there's just no way the smell has been maintained. But like, I would just walk through that door when my dad would drop us off and the second the screen door opened, it's get in that kitchen and that smell and I'd be like, oh, yeah, I'm gonna have the best three days.

• 2:10:02Speaker 01

  Yeah, that's nice.

• 2:10:04Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, but this is good too. I liked being at the Colonial Motor Inn.

• 2:10:07Speaker 01

  I'm glad that reminded you.

• 2:10:09Dax Shepard?

  Yeah, wow, Pippi.

• 2:10:10Speaker 01

  Oh, my god.

• 2:10:11Dax Shepard?

  This is my Pippi.

• 2:10:12Speaker 01

  Oh.

• 2:10:13Dax Shepard?

  I'm gonna call him Pippi Bear.

• 2:10:15Speaker 01

  Well, his name's Valentino.

• 2:10:17Dax Shepard?

  Well, it was.

• 2:10:17Speaker 01

  I ruined it like I ruined.

• 2:10:19Dax Shepard?

  That was Joel LeBeau.

• 2:10:21Speaker 01

  I ruined it like I ruined Liberty by removing its tag. I don't know why I kept doing that.

• 2:10:27Dax Shepard?

  It's unlike you.

• 2:10:28Speaker 01

  I know. I don't understand because.

• 2:10:31Dax Shepard?

  I am glad, though, because as it turned out, they were valueless. So it's like to not be able to enjoy it because it had a big tag hanging off of it.

• 2:10:37Speaker 01

  That is expensive. Hold on.

• 2:10:39Dax Shepard?

  I will give you a thousand dollars if you can get more than twenty dollars for that bear.

• 2:10:45Speaker 01

  And that one might not be because it's missing its tag. But Valentino Beanie Baby eBay, um.

• 2:10:53Dax Shepard?

  Twelve dollars.

• 2:10:54Speaker 01

  No, no. The one in mint condition is two hundred dollars.

• 2:10:58Dax Shepard?

  Well, it's for sale for that. Let's see if anyone pays.

• 2:11:01Speaker 01

  And then there's one. And then there's one for one fifty. There is one for nine eighty-nine. I'm not sure why, because.

• 2:11:09Dax Shepard?

  It's a big, uh, big Delta between.

• 2:11:11Speaker 01

  Seventy-nine.

• 2:11:14Speaker 01

  Yeah, those that are ten dollars are fakes. Mine's original.

• 2:11:18Dax Shepard?

  Okay, you gotta get it authenticated. That's gonna cost you some money.

• 2:11:21Speaker 01

  Well, it, look, look at the tag. Look at the tag on him on his butt that you've been eating.

• 2:11:25Dax Shepard?

  Yeah.

• 2:11:26Speaker 01

  Um, I did ruin it also because I wrote my name on it.

• 2:11:31Dax Shepard?

  Who did you think was gonna steal it?

• 2:11:33Speaker 01

  Exactly.

• 2:11:35Dax Shepard?

  Your brother wasn't even like around yet, was he? How old were you when you were collecting these? I know you're gonna say younger than you were, so I'm gonna add two years to whatever you say.

• 2:11:43Speaker 01

  No, no, no. I was in like, I think its peak was when I was in like fourth grade. And like all my friends had them.

• 2:11:51Dax Shepard?

  Okay, so nine and ten. You're nine, although you said you're super young when you joined, so really just nine.

• 2:11:56Speaker 01

  Yeah, I was probably nine.

• 2:11:57Dax Shepard?

  So Neil was at best one year old.

• 2:11:59Speaker 01

  Yeah. I don't know if it was to keep from him.

• 2:12:01Dax Shepard?

  I think it was when you went to your girlfriend's house to play with your Beanie Babies. You didn't want to get them mixed up.

• 2:12:06Speaker 01

  Maybe, yeah.

• 2:12:07Dax Shepard?

  And your penmanship's improved.

• 2:12:12Dax Shepard?

  Did you use your left hand to write?

• 2:12:13Speaker 01

  That was my handwriting.

• 2:12:15Dax Shepard?

  That's a very small... Yeah, this thing is valueless, Monica. It's got... You've written your name on it, doesn't have the tag. It does have, although not nearly as bad as a little shit tea. There are stains on this thing. There's blue ink, there's... Oh, that was a fuzzball. You know, regardless, if someone gives you $10, don't even think about it. Take it. Take it.

• 2:12:39Dax Shepard?

  And as I'm saying, if you can get more than $20 for this, I will give you $100.

• 2:12:43Speaker 01

  $2,000.

• 2:12:44Dax Shepard?

  And no one, none of the listeners can participate. I don't want someone bailing you out and offering you $21 for this. You gotta sell on eBay under a pseudonym.

• 2:12:52Speaker 01

  But then I have...

• 2:12:53Dax Shepard?

  And you gotta show a close-up of the name. Yes, that's how collectibles work. You gotta show them all the imperfections.

• 2:13:00Dax Shepard?

  And it's... That ad's gonna get as dusty as this creature.

• 2:13:04Speaker 01

  No, I think...

• 2:13:05Dax Shepard?

  I love it. It's worth more than $20 to me, I'll tell you that.

• 2:13:08Speaker 01

  I think he's gonna go for 2 to 3K. I have high hopes for him, Valentino. Um, okay, that's it.

• 2:13:15Dax Shepard?

  Those are all the facts?

• 2:13:16Speaker 01

  Yeah.

• 2:13:16Dax Shepard?

  Okay, love you.

• 2:13:17Speaker 01

  Love you.